Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to the committee on finance.

It is Thursday, September 18th, it's 701 p.m.

And we are here in the city council chamber.

I am joined in the meeting tonight by my colleagues in government, Councilor Ward 1, Leo Choquette, Council Ward 5, Joseph Lopes, Council Ward 6, Ryan Pereira, Counselor at Large, Naomi Carney, and Council Ward 3, Sean Oliver.

I'm Linda Morred, Counselor at Large.

Thank you all for being here.

I will ask the clerk if I have anything to read into the record.

Madam Chair, we have two letters.

The first is from Council President Burgo, Dear Chair Moored and honorable members of the committee.

I am writing to inform you that I would not be attending tonight's committee meeting due to illness.

Please read this letter into the record to make my colleagues and the public aware of the reason for my absence.

Sincerely Shane Burgo, Councillor at Large, and also from Council Gomes.

Dear Chair Moored and Honorable Members, I am writing to inform you that I will be unable to attend tonight's committee meeting due to a prior commitment.

Please read this letter into the record to make my colleagues and the public aware of the reason for my absence.

Sincerely, Brian K.

Gomes, Councilor at Large.

Second.

Made by Councillor Lopes, second by Council Oliver.

Any discussion on the issue?

All those in favor say aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Colleagues, I also received uh messages from Council Giusta and Council Baptiste indicating that they were going to be a little late.

Um this meeting is being live streamed and recorded in the City Council Committee meetings can be reviewed on the City and New Bit's homepage under quick links, then meetings.

I'll ask the clerk to please read item number one.

Madam Chair, item one is communication from Mayor Mitchell to the council.

Submitting an order that in accordance with Mass General Law, Chapter 44, Section 53E and a half, a revolving fund under the control of the Health Department, known as the Health Department Compliance Program's Revolving Fund, whose revenues collected and amount limited is to be spent estimated at sixty thousand dollars is hereby authorized for FY2026.

Motion to receive and place on file made by Council Pereira, second by Council Oliver.

Any discussion on receiving and placing on file?

All those in favor say aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Uh Stephanie.

So colleagues, um, back in July we uh reviewed all the revolving funds for fiscal twenty-six.

Stephanie wasn't able to join us at that meeting, and as you know, we haven't had uh many finance meetings since that time, so uh this item's been hanging around for a little bit, but she's able to join us tonight, and the podium is yours.

And uh colleagues, we had um referred to finance any revolving fund that was being renewed with a change of more than ten thousand dollars, and that's why that's before you here.

Great, thank you.

Good evening, everyone.

Um so tonight um we are asking for sixty thousand for our revolving account, um, which is ten thousand more than last year.

Um in last year we were uh we had a number of grants that sort of supported some of the work that we normally would have used our revolving account for.

Um, but due to the uncertainty in grant funding, um we increased this year.

Um, for example, we just found out that um the for our tobacco compliance program, there is a parallel grant um that goes along with it, which is around community education.

So we do the compliance and they do the community education.

That did not get refunded this year.

Um so we will likely need to also add um that community education piece to the work that we do.

Um we're also looking this year, we've applied for um some grant funding to um also do out alcohol compliance with the police department.

But we are uncertain if we'll get that funding.

And we want to do the program regardless because we are seeing an increase in alcohol problems in the in the city.

So looking to stand up that program regardless of if we get the grant funding.

Very good.

Thank you.

Colleagues, Chair recognizes Council Lopes.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Do you have an estimated cost for each one of those programs?

If you don't have it today, you can send it to the clerk and the clock.

Perfect.

Yep.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Council Lopes.

Chair recognizes Council Pereira.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Stephanie, good evening.

How do you plan um what is the total uh the revenue from this is generated through fines?

Yep, they are fines from compliance checks from our tobacco program.

Okay.

So that would be uh when a retail establishment sells to a miner um or they have flavored products or they have products that are not allowed in Massachusetts.

So you're in you're expecting an increase of $10,000 in those fines?

So we didn't use all of our revolving account last year, so we have some of the money left over from last year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Very good.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Chair recognize Council Oliver.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um Stephanie, the uh program that is not being funded through the grant, how long have we been how long have we been doing that?

Um the community partner, the education piece, I want to say it's been around for like the last 20 years or so.

Um but um it had been held by Seven Hills Behavioral Health.

They were our community partner and they did the tobacco education.

Um but this year the program received funding cuts on the state level, and so um they there is actually no coverage right now on the South Coast.

Okay, and and that's the reason why there's no other reason why we weren't that grant wasn't picked up this year, other than that.

We yeah, the so it's it the the state could only fund so many yeah, so many partners this year because of the cuts.

Okay.

Um that's all I have right now, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Uh before I uh recognize anyone else, Chair would like to recognize that we've been joined by Ward for Councillor Dirk Baptiste.

Colleagues, anything else?

I'm sorry?

Yeah, I will.

Anything else with Stephanie?

Bob, do you wish to add anything?

But I think uh council Pereira has a question for you anyway, so would you thank you, Steph?

Well, the one thing I was going to add was that the to your question comes.

We need you to I can't hear you.

Oh, okay.

How's that?

Better.

No.

No.

All right.

So uh this is the best I can do.

It's the microphone.

Uh the initiative to your question on revenue.

Uh we have 105,000 dollars of fund balance in that fund as well.

So and that would speak to Stephanie's answer about um previous uh appropriations that hadn't been fully spent.

And uh it's okay, Madam Chair.

Yeah, that's all right, yep.

So that just will keep getting carried over year after year?

To the extent yes, to the extent that revenues exceed the spending cap that the council imposes or the actually the actual spending that that happens in that fund that'll continue to accrue every year.

Sure.

Okay.

Is it possible to get a um a report on which years like if there was like can we go back maybe three years to see what it was three years ago and then show how much is get being brought over?

Yes.

Okay, it's very easy.

Because it'll show like an increase, obviously, from one year to the next.

Yes.

If that year had a big turnover.

Okay.

Yeah, so maybe the past three fiscal years to see the fund balances from those three years?

Okay.

Thank you, Bob.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Uh Bob, that's something we asked for, remember last year when you were giving us the revolving fund so that we could see the history of the account.

So I I think that's good practice when come next April, May, June, when you do the fiscal 27s to supply that because I think it's very useful information for review.

Yeah.

Three-year fund balances.

Yep.

Yep.

So especially if it is an increase, right?

It's nice to see that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sure.

Thank you, Bob.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Very good.

And Council Pereira, you can send it to me, okay?

I'll give you my personal email.

All right.

Anything else for Bob?

Bob, do you have anything else for this item?

No, ma'am.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

Chair recognize the council.

I was going to ask for a five-year fund balance with the expenditures, but three years is sufficient.

Three years is okay.

Okay.

Good.

Anyone else on this issue?

All right.

Thank you both.

Colleagues, your pleasure.

Motion to refer to the full city council for adoption.

Motion to refer to the full city council for adoption.

Made by council Pereira, second by Council Oliver.

Any further discussion on the item?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Items from tonight's meeting will be referred to the September 25th City Council agenda, just so everybody in the room is aware.

Ask the clerk to read item two, please.

Madam Chair Item 2 is a communication from community preservation committee submitting the CPA annual budget for FY26 for committee administrative expenses and community preservation projects in FY26.

Motion received and place on file.

Motion to receive and place on file made by Council Oliver, second by Council Baptist.

Any discussion on receiving and placing on file?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

We have Jan and Jody.

Jody wanna come to the podium as well?

Good evening.

Jan, you want to do a little presentation?

Um good evening, Counselors.

I think did you receive the FY26 budget?

Yes, we have it.

Okay.

So um I don't have any particular presentation.

I'm ready to answer questions, unless you want me to explain how it's broken down.

What it is is we put up to five percent in the administrative fund.

That's to cover consultant costs, staff costs, printing, supplies, dues and subscriptions because we belong to the statewide community preservation commission.

Then we put 10 percent in open space recreation, historic resources, and community housing, and the rest of our money, which is about 65 percent goes into the budget at reserve.

And we estimate that next year's budget will be 1,823,511.

And that's an estimate because we have to wait for the CP2 from the Department of Revenue.

Okay, thank you.

Jody, do you want to add anything?

No.

Colleagues' questions?

Chair recognizes Council Lopes.

Thank you, Jan.

Thank you, uh Madam Chairwoman.

Jen, I just had one question.

Is the state match of 250 162?

Is that in the ballpark of what I know you don't have it in front of you?

Is that in the average of what we've collected in the match for the last couple of years?

Uh I think it depends on the year because that comes from the transfer taxes, so it depends how the real estate market's going.

So we've gotten more and we've gotten less.

I was just trying to remember what last year's was, and I couldn't find my notes.

So I'll follow up with Mrs.

Bailey and I'll ask her tomorrow.

Okay.

Well, Tuesday.

Okay, Tuesday.

Tuesday.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councillor.

Anybody else?

All right.

Colleagues, your pleasure.

Motion refers the full city council for adoption.

Second.

Motion referred to the full city council for adoption, made by council Pereira, second by council loops.

Any further discussion on the item before us?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Thank you, ladies.

All right, thank you very much.

Have a nice evening, everyone.

I'll ask the clerk to read item three, please.

Madam Chair Item 3 is written motion, Councillors Lopes and Moorad requesting that Derek Santos, executive director of the New Bedford Economic Development Council, provide the committee on finance, the annual program report detailing the status of the City of New Bedford tax increment financing, special tax assessment and tax increment exemption activity for all active certified projects.

And a related motion was tabled.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Uh that the solicitor's office provide the committee with an updated standard operating procedure on how TIFFs and STAs will be processed based on the changes made by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Office of Business Development.

Motion received in place on file made by Council Lopes and to remove from the table.

Second by Council Pereira.

Any discussion on removing from the table?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Council Lopes, this is your issue.

Who would you like to hear from?

Ramon.

Ramon.

Is it?

No, it wasn't Council Lopes.

Good evening, Ramon.

So do we have a breakdown of where we are with our the TIFF programs, the STAs, and the ties that we've done over the last couple years, and how are we meeting the new requirements that the state established?

I believe it was last fiscal year or the one before.

The changes were made the beginning of the calendar year.

So they took effect sometime first quarter or fourth quarter of last fiscal year.

As far as the current TIFF report, uh we've had a report that was updated as of May that all the companies that are currently in the TIFF and STA program have done their annual reports in all our current as of the end of fiscal year and calendar year 2024.

Would you be able to share that report with us for our records?

Yes.

So if you could send it to the clerk.

And what were the major changes that the state made decided in the last quarter of the last fiscal year?

So the state has stopped regulating and stopped approving local TIFFs and SDAs.

So there needs to be a local municipal process and policy that's put in place that takes the place of the general law that was passed that governed the EDIP and TIFF programs.

Did we update our SOP to reflect the changes that the state made?

We've been working with the Treasurer's Office and the solicitor's office to come up with some recommendations for how the program could be and could incorporate some of the previous state state components, some maybe some local guidelines that we work with, and then just a process uh by which the companies would impl would apply directly to the city and a way that those would actually be tracked on a city database because the state database is going to stop reporting on local only TIFF and STA products.

When do we expect to have that completed?

That would be a question I think for for solicitors.

Okay.

So I'll I'll ask the solicitor at that time.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay.

Council Pereira, is your question for Ramon or for Attorney Winters?

Okay.

Chair recognize Council Pereira?

I'm asking them the same question.

Each of them the same question.

Ramon, question.

So uh on uh Friday, May 23rd, we received an email stating that the city is in the process of developing that SOP.

Yes.

Uh so May 23rd, that we were when did we begin developing the SOP?

That's when we were told we began.

We we were in the process.

So when do we about to begin planning for the as soon as we were notified from the state that the changes were being made, we worked with our partners at MOBD to take some of the procedures that they had.

And it was kind of at the same time that the state was coming up with a new EDIP process.

So we weren't told finally how that state process was going to work until the spring.

When that happened, maybe the beginning of March, we immediately started developing how a local only approval process could work, you know, and a local only program could work.

And we started to draft out um what that application might look like, what some of the the guidelines and some of the requirements and regulations of that would be.

Okay.

Would this delay anyone trying to get a TIFF now?

Uh right now, yes, because technically there is no TIFF program that exists in the City of New Bedford right now.

Okay.

Thank you, Ramon.

Um and it's currently waiting on solicitors?

Uh there's probably more than that, but thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ramon.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

So, Ramon, no from the Chair Ramon, sorry.

So I'll ask Attorney Winters this question as well, if he doesn't address it in his comments, but other than the fact that we could not approve a TIFF in the City of New Bit today, what are the concerns that the Department of Economic Development have about the change and the lack of monitoring on behalf of the state?

I don't think that we have any concerns.

I think it's all things that we can accomplish and we can do and that we can monitor and track in-house.

It's just we need to actually finalize and formalize uh what those policies are going to be.

I'm not an attorney.

I know that the previous TIFF ordinance referenced a state law in EDIP that doesn't exist anymore.

So I'm not sure of the steps that need to be taken locally in in order for it to take effect.

Okay.

And are there currently any uh businesses in the city who are looking for a TIFF from us?

We have had a couple inquire about the program.

And what's the status of those at this point?

They have been told that we're working on developing a local policy.

Okay, and those conversations have been since March, maybe?

Yes.

Yeah, okay.

And um are these significant companies that I know you're not going to disclose names that are investing lots of dollars in the city or these small projects?

What I think there's a mix.

There's there's probably a couple of smaller ones and and one or two larger.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

I'm sure my colleagues will um have possibly have other questions, so don't go away.

Okay.

Anyone else for Ramon at this point?

He certainly can come back.

Okay.

Um Council Hope, do you want to hear from attorney?

Windows?

Yep.

Good evening, Madam Chair and uh council members.

Thank you for having me.

Um yes, we are working on a a TIFF that is that is based on um the city moving forward due to the change in the law.

So what we've been doing is meeting with um, particularly with with the assessors and developing certain policies uh that would uh help to protect the city and um we're we're we're pretty close to having that done, and then we're gonna work on the application and the um and the contract.

So um it will it will follow the a lot of the work was done by by the um by the state, so we're we're using their forms as uh as sort of a basis, but we have a policy that we're we're we're close to having finished.

Um it will involve um it will involve assessors and um the the CFO's office um you know immediately um they weren't and uh so that's that's one thing that we're considering and making sure that they're they're on board with with everything and uh obviously making sure that uh it is you know with the um the CFO that it the revenue matches you know the um the projections that they want.

Um so that's what we've been working on.

Um we're pretty close to uh having that that complete.

Uh I did look at the at the ordinance.

I don't believe there's any ordinance changes that would be need be needed.

But a couple quick questions.

I've spoken to a couple of businesses that have had concerns that they haven't been able to begin the process, which slows down the ability to grow economic activity to collect taxes, but to also employ more individuals within those spaces.

And now I know some of those are on the waterfront, um, but they do pay and they do hire a lot of employees.

So when we say we're close, are we on the five-yard line or are we on the 50-yard line to being close?

Uh maybe uh in the red zone, maybe.

How's that?

The red zones was in the 20.

Yeah.

So within that parameter, because now we're getting ready to set the tax rate, so we're losing out on potential revenue, and if we have to change the ordinance, we know the process on the council is that could be another six to eight weeks.

So if you tell us, and I'm making up a date, I'll have something for you in October, that means we're not gonna get anything until January or February of next year, which delays economic activity in the city when we're all talking about during tax classification that the importance of taking the burden off the homeowner, not trying to put it on the business community, but expanding our business community to take the burden off the homeowners.

So that's why I filed this when I did it now, you know, and the chairwoman, because in February we knew these changes were coming down the pike, and instead of us being proactive, we do what we do a lot, we're reactive, and then it gets bogged down in different departments within the city, and we're gonna be realistically a year where we're not providing the ability for individuals that own businesses or want to expand their businesses in the city.

You know, last time I was on the TIFF board, we had you know one of the companies that moved into Industrial Spark and invested 17 million dollars.

We know we're talking about a second industrial park in the city with the big benefit of being the financial benefits they will get for relocating or expanding in the city.

No, innocent, that RFP hasn't gone out, but we're gonna be a year realistically a year out before something is that the economic development office can utilize to enhance the tax base for the city.

That's my concern.

Duly noted.

Duly noted doesn't mean we're gonna get past the red zone and and move it to the to the end zone within a faster period.

Now I understand there's only so much the solicitor's office can do, but we know we could have used Util House outside council.

You pick and not saying you can't do the job, but a year is a long time to wait for something.

If the council sat on a piece of administrative paperwork for a year, we'd be on WBSM, Fund 107, New Breforty Guide, and you picked the thing saying that the council is dragging its feet.

We done we put a couple of things on the table and we're boondogging the administration, but this doesn't get reported that we're going to go out a year without having the ability to write a TIFF.

Where other communities in the Commonwealth, and I had this conversation before I came here today with a few other people in municipal government in other municipalities that have already moved forward, adopted something, and have the ability to do TIFS in their community.

I talked to an economic development person today that I know from my 20 years in banking who said it's not a problem.

We're doing it in this community.

I'm like, well, we're not doing it in New Bedford yet.

And that puts us at a disadvantage, especially considering that the city of Fall River, right next door, is going to have substantial acreage available for commercial development in a very short window of time.

And the city has lost countless companies to our neighbor to the north.

I'm not good with directions.

They north west.

Thank you.

Northwest.

Thank you.

So that's my concern.

You know, I I I don't like here we're in the we're in the red zone.

I'd rather hear we're getting ready for the end zone and not waiting for something that could potentially be fumbled between now and the end of the year.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Before the uh chair recognizes Council Pereira, I'd like to recognize we've been joined by Ward II City Council Maria Giesta.

Council Prairie.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Attorney Winters, uh good evening.

Councilor Loops uh made a football reference.

I'm gonna just what's the timeline?

Uh I I would say within um a month or two.

For I did there's there's there's a there's a lot of uh things that need to be done, but it it's it's we have to develop uh the program, redevelop the program from soup to nuts.

So it's it's it's doing the contracts, it's doing the um and it's also doing the application.

Okay.

So this is the same thing.

I don't think I don't think it's I I would say I'm dissatisfied with the time it took to complete it, um, if I'm completely honest.

Um if I'm being told that in March or April from for that.

I mean the motion that the council uh is talking about was dated, it was referred to the committee in February.

So uh the councillor has said uh uh from Ward 5 uh filed this motion uh some uh a few weeks before the city, or around the time I should say, yes uh that the city began, according to Ramon, uh developing this policy in March or April, and we're here in September and we're two months away, up to two months, one to two months away.

I don't believe that that is um um sufficient progress.

Um and I I really we're just this these are this is low-hanging fruit for us to go out and and and something that's been people know that what that in my discussions with a couple of businesses, I don't know which one you were referencing in the industrial park, but if it's the one I'm thinking of, said that the city's been great to deal with when it comes to the TIFF agreements.

Uh if it's the same company that had come back for an expansion project over there.

And now I'm hearing from other business owners, well, one of whom I know very well on the waterfront who can't get an appointment because we don't have a policy.

We're just all over the place, and we just need to I I just don't believe this timeline is has been sufficient.

And uh I just wanted to make that uh state that to you.

Okay.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Chair recognizes Council Oliver.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um thank you, uh uh Ms.

Winters for being here today.

Uh I I'm gonna kind of be very honest, you know, for the folks living at uh watching at home that might be like, well, if we're hearing that other municipalities are already got something on the books, are we are we copying off of anybody else's paper?

I know we gotta I mean I know we want it to be, you know, it's gotta be new bed curtailed for New Bedford, but um if other municipalities are doing it, then there's um SOP and you know stuff out there.

Um is there are we utilizing that to try to fast track this?

Well we're we're we are we are utilizing the um the the originals that we had, but it's a different program and there there were some deficiencies that that we had to deal with because of the state.

So we're trying to correct those so that we have a more efficient process and a more more transparent, but also um you know, uh uh with better mechanisms, not only for to to move them forward um but also to monitor them as well.

So Right, but the I mean other municipalities would have have needed to do that very same thing.

So I guess uh I'll say just ask again the are we looking to at what other municipalities are doing, or we're just looking at the our the blank chalkboard ourselves and trying to figure it out.

Well, there aren't a lot of municipalities out there that have this um ready quite yet.

So but do you know of any that are?

Um I only what I've heard tonight.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's all, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

So from the Chair, Attorney Winters, um, I'm going to agree with my colleagues.

I also have had a couple of conversations with a couple of municipalities who do have programs up and running.

And you know, I also have heard from a couple of businesses in the city who are frustrated with the fact that this is this is so long a process.

And I don't I I don't understand why.

Um you sit down, you write it, you talk to economic development, you figure out what you're going to do, and you move it forward.

It's I I don't know how the workflow is in the solicitor's office, but whether you you know work on something and you stop and you do something else, and what why you can't take something from A to Z and complete it, so we can check that off the box and move it forward.

We're affecting the revenue of the City of New Bedford, and I'm not trying to preach to you.

You're the wrong person standing here tonight.

Uh, but you know, I'm just trying to make sure that this moves and I don't know, red zone is 10 yards, isn't it?

It's 20.

Oh, I got a fifty.

Yeah, okay, yeah.

So, you know, if I'm gonna put this back on the agenda for October, and I want you to come back and tell me that it's over the end zone, because I don't want to wait much longer.

And I don't know what you got to do in the solicitor's office.

And as one of my colleagues said a minute ago, we put two items from the administration on the table last night, uh last week.

I did it.

We're filibusting, we're holding things up.

But look what we're doing for businesses who are trying to employ people and who are trying to build our tax revenue and our tax base.

And again, I'm not preaching to you, you're the wrong guy here.

I know the right guy is watching this meeting.

Hope he's getting the message loud and clear.

Again, um, this is not acceptable.

It's not acceptable.

It needs to be done.

So um in a minute, can somebody check the Google calendar and tell me what the date of the October finance meeting is?

I'm gonna put it on that agenda and uh come back with the policy.

It's the 16th, Madam Chair.

So October 16th.

Thank you.

So we'll be back on October 16th on this issue, and um we want a policy in hand.

And again, I just want to remind the solicitor's office that um, as a turn as uh uh Council Lopes said, there's a process for ordinance changes in the City of New Bedford.

And I know you're well aware there's a public reading process, there's a s uh, and there's a timing issue.

So let's get that forward anyway and get that moving so that we can get the process moving along, have the public hearings and be ready to adopt whatever it is is going to come out of the solicitor's office eventually.

So again, I'm sorry you're the wrong man, but anybody else?

Please deliver my message.

All right, colleagues?

Motion to table for 30 days, made by council lopes, second by council Oliver.

Any further discussion?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Thank you, Attorney Winters.

Thank you for your time.

I ask the clerk to read item four.

Madam Chair, item four is communication from Mayor Mitchell to the City Council submitting an order to accept mass general laws, Chapter 200A, Section 9A, to provide the city with the tools necessary to dispose of abandoned funds held in the custody of the city.

4A is the order.

Motion received place on file.

Made by Council Oliver, second by Council Lopes.

Any discussion on receiving place on file?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Oppose, the ayes have it.

We have John and Bob with us on this issue who's leading.

John?

Yep.

A little overview of what you are asking, and then I'll open the floor, please.

Sure.

Good evening, Madam Chair, Honorable Counselors and City Clerk.

I would like to request your approval to accept Mass General Law Chapter 200A, Section 9A.

Accepting this will provide the city with an outline method and procedure to properly dispose of abandoned unclaimed funds held by the city.

Except for the statute will allow the unclaimed funds to a sheet to the city, which shall be recorded as revenue in the general fund.

So essentially what would happen is that any funds held in the custody of the city may be presumed abandoned or unclaimed after some period of time.

So within one year after the date prescribed for payment or delivery, uh the treasurer of a city holding those funds owed to a corporation organization or beneficiary person, are presumed to be abandoned under this section.

So we would uh essentially post a notice entitled Notice of Names of Persons appearing to be owners of funds held and deemed abandoned and then specify the names of those persons, provide a description of the appropriate method for claiming the funds, and the deadline shall be no less than 60 days after the date the notice was posted uh on our website essentially.

Um then after posting that notice on our official website after 60 days, if the amount is over a hundred dollars, we would need to then post it uh in a general publication within the city for one year.

Um after that time, if it's still not claimed, uh we have to post it in a general publication in the county, um, and then we would be able to issue those funds to the city if they are not claimed.

There are any questions?

Okay.

Uh Chair recognizes Council Oliver.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh John, thank you for being here.

Uh abandoned funds, right?

Uh leftover money, unclaimed money.

How do how does the city come into possession of that money?

It's essentially primarily AP checks, so uh payables to vendors or or people that do business with the city, and if they don't cash those checks within a certain period of time, they become outstanding.

Uh for whatever reason they either forgot about it or um they had already been paid and it's and it's just sitting out there.

Okay.

Um do we know what the average dollar amount is that we have that's sitting out there right now?

Um it goes back several years.

So, in order for us to accept this, once we accept that we can do further research to understand exactly how much we have.

And uh accepting this that allows us to go back how far to claim these these monies?

As far as we have outstanding checks.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's all right now, Madam Chair.

All right, Chair recognizes Council Pereira?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

John.

If it's over a hundred dollars outstanding, general publication in the city for one year, the standard times.

So yes.

So it would be sixty days first, and then if it's not claimed, one year in a publication within the city.

So you have to run an ad for one year.

Is that what that means?

No.

So explain that, please.

I'm sorry, a single uh single ad, but you have to wait one year for someone to claim those funds.

Okay.

So you post the ad, right?

And then you have to wait one full year until that we can take them.

Okay.

Just because that was like that.

Yeah.

Uh so and then are you gonna is this something that you would have to do an individual ad for each item?

Or could it be like a uh an ad that would have every single item in it?

It would have the full list.

Full list, yeah.

You post that once, correct?

So that's something that someone people can really look at, has everyone, and you're not looking you don't have to look at the standard times every single day.

Correct.

It would be something that it would be a custom.

Yes.

And would the city take the practice of doing that at the same time every year?

Uh to the effect that we have outstanding, yes, we would do it again.

Okay.

All right.

And just to clarify, after that general publication, you wait a year, you have to advertise again at a at the county level.

Is that correct?

I believe that's correct, yeah.

Okay.

And then you wait another year.

Right.

Okay.

So it's it's quite a long lengthy time.

It's a process to retract this money, which I think should be not difficult, but should be a process to make sure that people, if they haven't got paid, do have a chance to see it.

And you did say the city will publish this on their website as well.

We will.

So it's that's the first step is we have to post it on our website for 60 days.

Would we be able to leave it on our website throughout this whole process?

We we will.

Okay.

Perfect.

All right.

Very good.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, John.

Thank you, Counselor.

Chair recognized Council Giesta.

Uh thank you, Madam Chair.

Um Counselor from Ward 3 asked my questions.

I wanted the definition of what abandoned meant.

So thank you.

Okay.

Appreciate it.

Do you recognize Council Lopes?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

So, John, we don't have an Excel spreadsheet right now that says make it up a number.

We have $9,000 outstanding for the last five years.

We have a number of outstanding checks that the problem is doing the research to actually identify if those are still outstanding or not.

So we want to be precise on whether or not something is outstanding before we post it.

And we have to accept this before we can do it anyway.

All right.

So if with if this gets accepted, how long do you think it's going to take you to do the back end research to go through all of the line items to make sure the X the Y hasn't been cash deposited and it was a mistake on our part?

Probably a couple of months.

A couple of months.

Okay.

So when you finish that, would you be if this is adopted, would you be able to send us that XL file however you're going to create it so we would be able to review it ourselves?

Sure.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Council Lopes.

Anyone else on there first?

Do you recognize Council Perr in a second?

Would this include outstanding payroll checks if any of them were to exist?

I know probably today.

Payroll checks are somewhat different, and I need to get a definition of this further on that, because those have to get paid.

So we would not be able to go and take back payroll checks.

We would not be including those in this.

Perfect.

Okay.

Because I would I would I I support that as well.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay.

Chair recognize counsel.

Yes, sir, in a second.

Uh thank you, Madam Chair.

Just a question.

Aren't most checks Don't you have to cash them within like 90 days?

So a check technically says void after 90 days.

A bank doesn't have to honor that.

A bank has up to six months by UCC code law in order to honor a check.

So at their discretion, they they could actually allow someone to cash it after 90 days.

Okay.

That's an interesting Okay.

Because usually on a check it says expired after 90 days.

The point of the Yeah.

The point of the 90 days is really for us to make sure we're reconciling and we have the ability to prompt them to do that within that period of time, although they are allowed longer.

Okay.

Thank you for the clarification.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Chair recognizes Council Oliver in a second.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

John.

Would that question from my colleague who spoke before me from Ward 2?

You said six months.

We're talking about a two-year process.

Are we even going to be able to I know that we're talking about just adopting this, but are we even going to be able to collect these funds then?

Yeah.

I I believe so.

So anything under 100, it's not a lot, but if there are a hundred of those or however many there are, you know, we could certainly do that before this period of time, because you don't have uh the length of time that you do for anything over a hundred.

Um but anything over a hundred, obviously we want to try to reach out and find out um who that uh company is or person that's owed that money before.

Um and if we can't do that, then obviously we'll work through this process to post it.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you.

Do you recognize council lopes on a second?

Can I ask you for law if you want to go over the question?

I have a question for John, and yes, I'll ask Bob.

Anyone else for John before I ask my question?

So, John, these are checks that we write.

And so we know they're outstanding because we reconcile the checking account every 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, whatever it is we do.

Do we take any steps now today to reach out to those companies or people that have outstanding checks?

We do now.

You do.

Can you explain that process, please?

Yeah.

So what will happen is we will reach out to the department that owes the vendor, um, and they will contact the vendor to make sure that um they're either aware of the check being out there.

Um it could be a simple error in an address.

Maybe perhaps they didn't get it or you know, various things.

So that's the first step.

And then the second step is we'll look at our outstanding checklist uh to see if it's still outstanding and then identify that at that time.

Again, reach out to the department one more time to find out what's going on, if it needs to be reissued and you know, change where it's going.

So those types of things would be the first defense.

Um the second thing is we're implementing uh cash management module, which would allow us to clear checks automatically within Munis.

Um, and that's a pending implementation.

Okay.

So even though we have this process now in place where after a certain uh period of time we and I mean that all makes sense.

Sometimes the mail gets lost, sometimes it's got the wrong mailing address.

Even though we do we are proactive in that regard, you still have a lot of uncashed checks.

We do, and and some of them predate me, so I think that's the same.

Yeah, that's okay.

I I understand.

Yeah.

So okay.

So as Council Lopes asked you, I'm I know you can't give me the number, but are you talking millions?

Or are you talking Okay?

Yeah.

No.

Okay.

So we'll wait for the list so that that'll give you a chance to cull through it and present accurate information.

So thank you very much.

I mean, I I m I know most businesses go through the process that you're about to go through in such a public way in order to, you know, add back money to their checking account for checks that are in cash.

So anybody else for John?

Chair recognizes Council Giesta?

Uh thank you, Madam Chair.

Um Chair Morat brought something up.

So you're not talking about millions.

How much are you talking about, more or less?

What would you assume or like to assume at this point?

I don't want to put a number out to you.

Um I have an idea, but I don't want to say that because it could be off.

So I want to make sure that you know we compile this lesson.

Is it more than $10?

Yes.

Yes.

I'm kidding.

Um John.

Bob, would you please come up for a minute?

Do you want to add anything before I recognize Council Loebs?

Sure.

Sure.

Thank you for that opportunity.

Uh so first, I I'll put it out there.

We typically run our outstanding checklists are probably in the six-figure range any given point in time.

That's just normal trade practice.

I mean, you go to any company, you're going to have a lot of outstanding checks.

So those do not mean that this property has been abandoned.

Uh we have to go back, as John was saying, we have to go back and do a little bit more diligence to find out why they haven't been cashed.

Uh, I can tell you uh that uh John did inherit a very large amount of outstanding checks.

Uh and his team has been doing a good job getting this done.

We have reconciled our bank statements for the last couple of years for certain.

Um I'm not sure prior to that.

But we have a pretty good handle on outstanding checks.

We don't have a lot of time to be overly proactive in going after people who haven't paid, uh who haven't cashed our checks.

We try to reach out as best we can, but the sheer volume of just getting fresh checks out the door takes up a lot of a lot of our energies.

And I will point out um this is not a revenue grab by any means.

These are not this is not our money, so we have to do our best to get it back into the hands of those who uh who it belongs to.

It's the same exact process we would go through right now with the State, except the only thing is this is sort of like a local option, is what I like to think of it as.

Uh we go through and we do all the work instead of the State General Treasurer, and then if we cannot find anyone to um to take this money, then it just sheets back to the city as opposed to the state coffers.

So it's really the right thing to do if this if if we can't find the owners, the state isn't going to find the owners either, and we would rather just have the money back than let the state have it.

So that's what is kind of going on here.

John was very uh took it uh was very ambitious to take this on, because I as he has pointed out, it will be a couple year process.

Uh we can't do anything with the money anyway, we can't spend money that's that's not in our bank account, and it really technically is not in your bank account, even though it is on the bank statement, it's not on our general ledger because it is outstanding.

So we have no use for that money right now.

It's just sitting there dead.

So anyway, I thought I'd paint a little color for for this discussion.

Council Lopes.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

So I got three questions.

What's the outstanding balance on the register versus what we've been collected?

Or the or cashed?

So you said there is the differential.

So that was one of my questions.

What's the outstanding balance?

Since we can't get the outstanding checklist, there has to be an outstanding amount that you would know of when you are doing your reconciliation report to say it's a $500 million budget.

There's $229,132 that hasn't been deposited, cashed.

Well, we know what our outstanding checks are in total.

And we have 109 bank accounts.

So it's it's a big it's a big number, but there is a grand total that can be delivered.

But that is by that that only a subset of that is what we are talking about here.

So would you be able to give us the subset of that amount for anything in the last fiscal year?

Not the current fiscal year, the last fiscal year.

Um I am not sure.

Those may be something.

John, you have to come to the mic, I am sorry.

Yeah, before John speaks, I am going to tell you that the dating uh so bank rects are a manual process.

We would have to actually go through, probably pluck out everyone that is dated before June 30th.

We do not have the cash management system that John is talking about that can pluck those out for us right now.

We're going to have it in October.

But right now it would be a manual process.

But you know you have a balance that you are unable to spend.

Right.

That's the outstanding checklist.

So that's why you have you know that number.

Yes.

Can you share that number with us?

Yes, but you asked for the subset piece.

Okay.

The grand total, the outstanding checklist is definitely something we can give to you.

And you can't do that.

How many of that is is And you're not able to extract that from the last fiscal year?

We'd have to we'd have to go to Excel files and other documentation and call it.

Yes.

It could take several hours to do it.

I'm not sure in the end what it is going to do for us.

Unless it just satisfies your curiosity.

It's more than curiosity, it's taxpayers' dollars that that's outstanding that hasn't been.

It's vendor dollars that are outstanding.

It's still dollars that we have had to raise in the taxes to to pay the to pay those outstanding debts.

Not really.

All right.

So how many checks are we writing versus ACH payments?

I don't know the answer to that one.

One of our missions is to get that up to 100 percent someday.

Um I I'm gonna throw, I don't know, 25 percent, John.

Does that sound about right for ACH?

In terms of volume, is it that high?

Lower?

So with that low on ACH payments?

Is that were that low on ACH payments?

Uh yes, but that's not our choice.

That's the vendor's choice.

I'm just I was just trying to see where we were, you know.

You know how we went from uh we used to be a hundred percent payroll checks, right?

And uh then we were able to under RE sky, we were able to uh uh uh enact direct deposit.

That was something we can kind of force on people.

Uh you know, once we go through the collective bargaining process, we can't force this on vendors.

Vendors have to be willing to um sign up that way.

I understand.

I was just wondering if there was an incentive to to get vendors on to the ACH payment versus check payments.

There definitely is an incentive.

They get paid right away.

And this risk of outstanding checks goes away too.

Yeah.

We're jamming it into their bank accounts, and they have no choice but to take it.

So it's good, it's gonna save a lot of problems.

And I can tell you, uh I wish I let to let John speak more on that because he has been piloting that program too, to to get ACH numbers up.

Um much more than we have in the past, and he's actually got a new bank uh is uh set up going on.

So he's there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes in the treasurer's office.

So our ACH is less than 25 percent, you were saying.

That's what I am hearing from John.

I mean, I don't have metrics on it, but uh just ballparking it, sure.

That's in terms of check issuances, not in terms of dollars.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

We also have another program with a with a rebate program that used to be with citizens, and now I think it's Bristol County.

I'm not sure.

Yeah.

So where we would actually um give vendors their money through a wiring, sort of a wiring process, and we would collect a piece of we we uh vendors would pay off their credit card in a sen in essence.

And uh we collect about 50 or 60,000 a year on this program, at least we did up and I haven't seen the numbers from last year.

But uh that's you know, so you put your vendor, you pay your bill with credit card, your credit card company is getting most of the fee, the three, three point two percent, but we get a little piece of it because we're the ones that helped enable us.

Right.

Those are my questions.

Thank you.

And that was initiative by a former treasurer, too.

So thank you, madam chair.

Thank you.

Uh before I recognize Council Carney, John, you were trying to add something.

Did Bob cover it?

Yeah, I think so.

Okay.

I don't have to say that, John.

Can you recognize Council Carney?

Yes.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um Madam Chair, excuse me.

Um just a quick question.

Um it's get posted, so it's a two-year process.

Say two years and two days later, somebody comes up and say, hey, I never cash my check.

Are they able to get their money at that point?

Or does this law prevent them, this act prevent them from recouping their their monies?

Well, no, we would the the ultimate goal here is to is to get checks into the right hands.

And that would be the the barometer for success of the program.

It's not how much can we can we get out of this uh.

No, I'm just saying, yeah.

Oh, okay.

So they are able to I'm just saying it doesn't prohibit them if we accept this after that time frame uh of the posting and it goes back into the city's coffers, they are still able to come and recoup their money.

Yes, up to a point.

I mean, if you're talking a couple of days here, but once once it's been closed out, we won't be advertising anymore.

And after a two-year process with no one coming forward, it's very unlikely that someone is gonna come forward like four years from now.

So what we will have to do is we have to obviously put a formal stop payment on the check because as one counselor had pointed out, you know, those are usually valid for only about 90 days.

That doesn't make the liability go away.

It just means the check has to be reissued.

Oh, I'm just thinking that some of these checks is maybe somebody has died and it's been in probate, and once they probate it out, it might take two years or whatever to probate and they find this money and they come back to the city to see if they can get it.

I'm just wondering, does this prohibit them from coming back after the two years that we have to do that?

But we take that on a case-by-case basis, right?

All right.

Thank you.

That's all.

Thank you very much.

Anyone else for bald?

Yeah.

So from the chair, Bob, I'm I certainly understand the labor-intensive process of trying to figure out of the total outstanding, how many are more than a year, et cetera.

Um, you know, as you move forward with this process, is there any appetite in the treasurer's or the CFO's office?

We have very talented group of students up at UMass Dartmouth in the accounting and business management programs to bring in some interns to do some of the legwork so that the people in working in the treasurer's office don't need to do that legwork.

Yeah, the in opportunity for interns has come up from time to time.

Um it's something I guess coordinated from usually from our HR department.

We haven't asked for it, I don't think in this case here.

But again, this is this is going to be labor-intensive.

There's no question about that.

Well, the problem is we have 109 bank accounts.

That's really the problem.

And the lists are in different forms.

But once again, once we get this up and running on Munis, we'll be able to sort by check check date and give that information pretty readily.

But uh yes, certainly that would be an opportunity for interns.

Yeah, it would be a learning experience for someone and it again alleviate the grunt work that's gonna have to be done in order to reconcile that.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you know, I just want to uh compliment you and I compliment John for um moving the treasurer's office into the 21st century.

And I'm sorry you inherited a mess, but I'm certainly glad to know that it's in capable hands.

So thank you very much on behalf of John and his team, because they do all the work.

Yep.

I stand up here and get credit.

Anyone else?

Colleagues, your pleasure on this item, please.

Made by Council Pereira?

Second by Councillor Giesta.

Any further discussion on the item before us?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Thank you both.

Item number five.

Madam Chair.

Item five is a written motion from Council President Carney requesting that the Treasurer's Office provide a report identifying all tax exempt properties, including churches, listing their value.

Property status is active or vacant and number of years vacant if applicable.

This was discharged from the special committee on the pilot program and referred here on January 23rd of 2025.

Motion is received in place on file.

Motion received and place on file made by Council Kearney.

Second by Councilor Giesta.

Uh all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Yeah, colleagues, this was referred from another one of our committees at the beginning of the year.

Um, and then we had a change in the treasure in the assessor's office.

Uh the list was compiled, unfortunately, at the last committee meeting.

Uh we weren't able to hear this item.

So it's before us tonight.

Uh there's quite a bit of detailed information that's been prepared.

And uh Sherry, you prepared it.

So can you join us, please?

Council Carney, this is your motion.

Yes, thank you.

Good evening, Sherry.

Thank you for coming.

Good evening.

Yes.

So um I was looking at some of these these properties from the tax exempt.

So a lot of communities uh have now have the pilot program, which is the payment of taxes, and I was looking at some of our tax-exempt properties.

Mainly one of the things I was talking to when I was meeting with the mayor is the churches, and he stated that after three years, churches, oh, after two years, two years.

Churches are liable to pay their taxes.

And when I spoke to him when when I was the the um president, he said they hadn't collected it yet.

So, what is the status on the outstanding churches?

So when I ran the report, um I sent my lister out, and he confirmed that four were actually vacant and they were put back on the tax roll.

Okay.

So have we collected any money from those four vacant churches?

We should have.

They went through the revised process or the omitted process.

So we added them back in.

So now they are part of the fiscal twenty-six billing.

Okay.

So um I know some of these churches that have been vacant for a very long time.

So we are going to be able to collect if they've been vacant for five years, after the two years, so year three, four, and five will be collecting the taxes on the churches.

So it they can only be vacant for two, and then they are susceptible to be taxed at that point.

Right.

But some of them have been vacant for over two years, three years.

I don't believe we can go back.

It's only going forward.

Okay.

I guess so.

I mean, so we missed the ball on some of these churches for not collecting the taxes.

Correct.

Which is kind of a shame.

I know.

Also, I noticed that one of the churches, the church, I didn't see a church on County Street.

I think it's St.

Joe's.

They have been vacant at the bottom of uh Allen Street for a very long time.

I think put back on the tax roll a while ago.

Yes.

Right, but they're not, I don't see them on this list.

I see I see four churches.

And I don't see they weren't exempt at the time the list was ran.

I want to say they were put back on in 22.

Okay.

So they were taxed in fiscal twenty-two.

Oh, so St.

Joseph's has been taxed.

Okay.

Very good.

So these other vacant churches are actually going on the tax rolls.

Now the other question I have: do we have a total on the sheet of the tax exempt?

I see they're all broken down individual of what the total value is worth.

Do we have a total value of this sheet right here of the tax exempt?

If the values are on there, I can get the values for you.

Yes.

Could you get the total value of all these properties that you submitted?

And also, if it's not really difficult, taking their value of property, what their taxes would be in the another column.

It will take a little bit, but yes, I can do that.

Okay.

I mean it's no rush.

It's just that, you know, you know, we need to look at all options to hopefully help the taxpayer.

And you know, a lot of these places do have to require, you know, our police and fire and and our services for the city.

And like I said, a lot of towns and cities have pilot programs.

And I was just wondering, um, you know, I'd like to investigate that further to see some of these tax exempt properties, pay a little bit.

I'm not looking them to pay the full taxes, but everybody needs to pay a fair share because you know, we have seniors that can't afford to pay their taxes and they're losing their houses over it.

Yes.

And there we have a lot of taxes and properties that can afford to pay a little bit, and you know, I'm looking to see if we could do that.

So if we can get that that list and the I mean the values of it, the bottom line, and what that taxes would be to see what we could have collected if they were on the tax.

Do you want that as a fiscal twenty-five?

That's the only tax rate we have right now.

So the office, it's just something that we can investigate and maybe move further at another time of doing something.

Okay.

Thank you, madam, madam president, madam chair.

Council County, uh the chair's unclear as to what your goal is with that request.

The but the goal is the request is looking to see if we can start taxing some of these, put um put in place a pilot program like some of the other communities, and see if we can get a little bit of monies in lieu of taxes out of all these tax exempt.

Yeah, I understood that, but um it your requests sound labor-intensive, and I was just trying to figure out what what the result of the work that you're gonna ask the assessor to do.

Uh what's the result of that?

What would you do?

I'm seeing to see what the value is and what we can maybe s collect on some of these properties in lieu of taxes.

Can I add something?

Yeah, okay.

So yeah.

Yeah, so at the beginning of September, I actually did a deep dive into the tax exempt properties.

We have 116 in-house that are supposed to be supplying us with state regulated forms.

Um it's not looking good.

So I'm gonna give them a time to rectify the file and make themselves actual exempt and we'll have a file of that.

If they don't, then as of the first week of November, I am going to flip that switch and make them taxable.

So I can put that list together for you too.

That would be great.

With that list, though, there's a lot of city-owned properties.

Right.

Yeah, I I know that we probably're not gonna be able to tax the city-owned properties.

I just was curious how many we had out there, and I noticed a lot of it is the housing authority, it's a lot.

Um you just want the ones that are.

I just want the exempt.

I was just curious what we had completely for the tax and properties, but uh it's the ones that are the nonprofits that I'm looking at basically.

Okay.

And I am going through their files separately for my own to figure it out on my own.

So Excellent.

So Sherry, do you understand the request?

Yes.

And it's something you can Yes.

Okay.

All right.

I just wanted to make sure, because uh the chair was unclear, so it's I'm not looking for any major rush on this.

You know, when you can when you can get it back to us, that'll be great.

I'm just looking to maybe everybody chip in a little bit so we can alleviate our uh the burden on our taxpayers.

So what I'll do is I can uh get you the value, I'll do the tax rate, and then I will make a note if they actually didn't comply, and I sent a notice out to them to get back to us by the first week of November.

That way you know that they could be up to be taxable, I guess.

Yes, thank you.

Anything else, Council Carney?

Yeah, that's it.

Anyone else for Sherry at this point?

Bob, I know you want to add something, so Sherry, don't go far.

Yes.

Uh hello again.

So I I was anticipating that someone might want to know about tax exempt properties.

So we you know, we file this pro we go through this process every year with the um with the valuation process that Sherry and her team are well into right now.

Uh so last year, 2025, we had over 2 billion dollars.

It was I didn't take it right down to the dollar, but it's 2 billion 54 million.

So that's 2054 million, basically, essentially.

That's the assessed value of 1,555 exempt properties.

But as Sherry pointed out, there's a lot of those that are uh city owned, so you're not gonna collect on that.

Right.

And if you applied they're all going to be either they're gonna be in the CIP category, the commercial, industrial or personal property.

Um I asked a dumb question today about you know, would it be residential and Sherry said she didn't say it was a dumb question.

She was very good, but if I thought about it, there wasn't that's not gonna be the case.

Uh so uh you could take 22 dollars and eighty-five cents and apply it to two billion.

You're gonna find out that comes out to like 47 million.

That is not going to be revenue to the city, right?

Okay, because all it's gonna do is it's gonna increase the tax base.

Okay, so we're not gonna collect one single dollar more in the tax rolls with or without these.

It just gets spread out on a bigger base, so everything goes down.

Now residential probably won't go down as much, but residential would have gotten benefited by the extra capacity of the shift, the 1.75 shift.

There would have been a bigger base for commercial.

So you know, if you remember last year and I said the thing that killed us was we went from 81 percent residential and 19 percent CIP to 83 percent residential.

That extra sh that basically wiped out any of the res residential tax relief we had from all of the cuts that were made.

And the commercial business is made out very well.

Um that's what would happen in the opposite frame.

All of these exempt properties that Sherry finds are taxable now, they're gonna swing that back, which will be very helpful when the tax shift time comes up, which would be in November.

I gave up the floor, but I do have a question.

If I'll wait till Bob, I think um Council Cardi has a question.

Oh, I'm sorry, Council Cardiff.

Okay, yeah, so I mean, you know, um.

So we have we have properties on here that are tax exempt that have very large endowments that really could afford to pay something to the city.

So what are you saying?

It's not going to it's not gonna make a difference if we collect that those taxes?

So let's just say you you find uh we we collect right now about three million or so dollars in pilot uh fees every year.

You have to remember the process now, right?

After you set the budget.

But you just said we we are collecting in the pilot process and payment in lieu of taxes?

Sure.

Yes.

We're doing that already?

Yeah, well we'll like uh mass CEC is a big is a big payer of um uh payments in lieu of taxes.

I think the hospitals uh there's there's about five or six major payers to get down into the grassroots of nonprofits.

I don't think any community in the state is doing that, probably.

But if you follow that through though.

Let's say that three million, you find another three million here.

Again, that's not gonna increase our coffers one dollar because I have to take six million dollars off of the budget before I go to the tax levy.

So it will decrease the tax levy by three million, but it will not change the total revenues that we collect.

We can't do anything.

We're not we're not a profit business.

We cannot earn a profit.

No, correct.

We can only break even, and that's not a good year.

Correct.

I'm just looking to see where we could possibly collect something just to, you know, lessen the burden of the taxes.

That's a great taxpayer.

That's all I'm looking for is for a lot of these places that when I'm looking at some of these things, and I assume the list that I have here, none of them are in the pilot program, correct?

I mean they could be.

I mean Mass CEC certainly is an exempt property, so it should be on your list.

Yeah.

I would say they would.

Right, but all right.

That's the whole idea of the pilot is basically a nonprofit that's on that list is paying us.

Right, because that's what I was looking for to implement a pilot program.

So it would have been very helpful that maybe if on that list that you presented here, that we list the ones that are actually in the pilot program already.

Because that's what it was because I'm seeing all these tax exempt properties on here, and it's tax exempt.

So I didn't know whether or not we were collecting anything on it.

So it would be helpful if we were to put that on this list.

Because that would answer my questions about some of these bigger um companies and these bigger nonprofits who have big endowments and collect a lot of money, and if they're already contributing, that was my goal in the pilot program when I was looking at the lists.

That would be very helpful.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Anyone else for Sherry or Bob?

John, you were invited on the item.

Do you wish to add anything?

All right.

So Sherry, if I heard you correct.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Council Pierre, go ahead.

I'm sorry.

I don't I I think it's more of an attorney question than for Sherry or whoever, but I'm going to ask it if they can answer great.

But currently, correct me if I'm wrong.

We would have to enter into agreement with these, yes.

Yes.

So it's not something we can enact.

No, it's a request.

Um, and then it filters through the solicitor's office.

Okay.

Very good.

So we have to request, come up with an agreement, and then it filters through the solicitor's office, which will take two years.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

So Sherry, is there a list of the exempt or nonprofits that are on a pilot program?

Yes.

Could you share that through the clerk's office?

Yes.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Okay, and then Cherry, I think you said that you're going to be pulling these people somewhere around the beginning of November.

My goal is to have my list completed by the end of September.

Give them about 30 days to comply with the missing recommendation regulations from the state.

If they don't, then I'm going to flip the switch and make them taxable.

And they'll get a tax bill in January, and then they can abate it at that point.

Okay.

So I'm trying to look.

I assume there's going to be a motion to table this item.

So I'm looking to see what is an appropriate timeline for you.

January, February.

To get an update on just the tax.

I should know by the first week of November.

Second week.

So somewhere in December, 60 days works for you.

16 to 90 days?

All right, then that's fine.

Okay.

I just don't want to push you and uh, you know, that way that you have what you need.

I'm good.

Yep.

All right.

All right, Council Cardi, this is your motion.

Yeah, I'll make a motion to table for 60 days.

Or if you need more time, it's um don't have an issue with it.

Well, can the chair suggest 90 because of the question?

So motion on the table to uh motion is to table the item for 90 days.

Second, made by council carney, second by council Giesta.

Any further discussion on the item?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Oppose the ayes have it.

Thank you for all your work.

We appreciate it.

No problem.

Thank you.

Colleagues, Chair.

I follow the recommendation of the Chair, waive the readings on item six through nine A.

Refer to the full city council for no further action.

Okay.

Made by Councillor Pereira, second by Council Lopes.

Any discussion on referring to the full city council for no further action?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Motionary.

Second.

Made by who made that?

I'm sorry.

Made by Council Oliver, second by Council Pereira.

Any objection to abjourning?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Oppose the ayes have it.

We are adjourned tonight at 814 p.m.

Thank you, everybody.