If anybody calls in.

We ready?

Ready?

Good evening, everyone.

I call to order the April first, twenty twenty-six regular meeting of the committee on administrative finance and law and public services.

Mr.

Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Public hearing first.

Public hearing.

Well uh uh the public hearings called first.

Um seeing that there is no one, but uh is there anybody on on the phone?

Ms.

Mr.

Chairman, yes.

Uh good.

Can I make a motion that we waive the reading of the legal notice?

We still we still gotta first do public participation.

Oh all right.

I should read I should read the agenda.

Yeah.

So I'm going by my notes over here.

We should be doing public participation.

So the public hearing um have been posted we'll the public hearing.

Uh state your name and address for the record and limit your speaking time to three minutes.

But uh anyone here to speak at the public hearing?

Going once, any here anybody here to speak to participate?

Three times anybody here to speak?

Seeing none?

Anyone on the phone?

Mr.

Clerk?

No.

Seeing none, I close the public hearing part of the uh uh meeting.

Time is six thirty-three.

Mr.

Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh Alderman Centeno.

Here.

Alder Woman Mel Maldonado.

Alder Woman los uh Ortiz Luna.

Here.

Alderman John McNamara.

Here.

Alderman Francisco Santiago.

President.

Alderman Alberto Borrell.

Excuse me.

Alderwoman Dottie Delorina.

Here.

Alderman Jason Gibson.

Here.

Alderman Robert Smedley.

You have seven present, Mr.

Chairman, so you have a quorum.

Thank you, Mr.

Clerk.

Mr.

Kerr, will you please read into the record the notice of the public hearing?

Legal notice, City of New Britain.

Mr.

Mr.

Chair.

I'd like to make a motion to waive the hearing.

Yep.

Santiago, please.

Make a motion to waive the reading of the warrant.

Motion is made to waive the reading of the warrant.

Second by Alderwoman.

All in favor?

Aye.

Motion passes.

Uh now we will go into the uh meeting part of the uh the first agenda on the agenda is item number thirty-seven zero nine nine to revise section one fifteen, six nineteen, seven forty-four, seven sixty-two, eleven six, and the thirteen two sixty of the code of ordinance to provide increased penalties when citing a ticket for general purposes.

May I have a motion?

Mr.

Chair.

I'd like to make a motion.

I'd like to make a motion to refer to the council with a neutral recommendation.

Second by uh motion to um refer referred to with a neutral recommendation, second by all the all the woman Luna.

All in favor?

No.

Any discussion?

I'm sorry.

Yes, Your Honor.

Could I have uh Mr.

Caleb?

Good evening.

Could you explain to us what this this is in sales?

Sure.

So recently in the past couple years, there's been some enabling language at the state of Connecticut that has allowed us to um look at our penalties for violations with regards to blight and housing uh infestation, things like that.

The topics that our code enforcement officers in the health department, the environmental health and the housing inspectors uh typically respond to.

So looking at that enabling language, what we wanted to do was create uh an increase in the penalties for for those kinds of violations.

So uh I want to say first that it's most important to my office and to my inspectors and staff that when we go out into the field and we uh respond to a complaint, our sole purpose, our main purpose is to educate first uh and enforce second.

So what what we we try to do is to make contact with the individual who's responsible for the violation and encourage them to see the the right way to do things within our laws in order in our regulations.

Um when that doesn't happen, uh we do on occasion have to do enforcement, and so this um this resolution uh asked to increase the penalties from $99 to $150 per violation, and so that's the the basis of what this is this is this is on although I'm uh delaying it.

I have lots of questions.

I'm ready.

Here we go.

First of all, when you say we, how many uh how many staff are actually out in the field um enforcing or advising first educating, thank you.

Um so we have currently three housing inspectors, um, and we have four sanitarians, so environmental health specialists that do our code enforcement through the for a city of 74,000 people.

And how much time would you say is devoted?

How many hours going out there doing this educating our residents?

So the the housing inspectors that is 100% of their duty.

Environmental health has to share that along with the other responsibilities that that office has, food inspections, cosmetology, lead inspection, things like that.

Okay, so can you give us some numbers?

I know I had asked you for the past couple of years if you could give us the numbers of how many fines were actually handed out and how many were actually paid.

Sure.

So and I I apologize to the to the committee.

I I did have every intention to disseminate this information to each of you.

I I had some technical difficulties and I couldn't print on anything that I tried to find.

So I'll just try to walk you through it.

Um we've kept records back to 2014 when um when our ticking program really started to ramp up.

Um 2014 and 2015 saw tickets issued 171 and 394 tickets were issued back then.

Umce that time, it's about average of 400 tickets a year, give or take 50 here or there.

Um what happens after that is uh a ticket is issued for one violation or five violations.

Um it's up to the property owner then to pay that fine.

If the property owner decides not to, then the um the violations or the citation, the dollar amount is placed a lien against the land record, and so that lean might stay on the land record until such time as the property owner wants to sell his house.

So while we we see in the earlier years, there's a high instance that um that the amount of fines issued is closer to the amount of dollars received.

It's only because there's been that many more years subsequent to when they're issued for it to be paid off.

So in the last two or three years, you're gonna see a bigger disparity because there's more there is less time for the individual to have to realize that they have this lien to pay off.

And so that's why we see um in in 20 well, use 2015, um 78,000 was written, uh 63,000 was collected, whereas um in we'll say uh last year uh 20 or 2024, 105,000 was issued and 31,000 was collected, and it's just a matter of how long it takes for those individuals to pay that back.

The city is gonna get paid, but it might take you selling your house in 20 years for us to get paid.

There is no other legal, there's no other legal means for us to go and collect that that that money.

We're not gonna certainly aren't gonna foreclose on a house for for 200.

So then why would we raise the fine from 99 to 150?

Where is the benefit there?

So what we're what we're trying to do is we're trying to send a message that any violation is important, and if we don't have bigger teeth to this, the economics of scale have changed over the past um well nine years since the last time we've revisited this.

Um I believe the last change was from 50 to 99, uh no, I'm sorry, 90 to 99 dollars, and at that point that was the maximum that the state would allow us to charge.

And since that enabling language has raised the ceiling, we're moving it up to a point where it's even across all the different concentrations of enforcement, housing in plight and infestation and animal.

And can you tell me out of the various fines that you're handing out, who is most likely not to pay?

It runs a gambit.

It it really does.

It it could be it could be an out-of-state landlord that doesn't receive the notice, and and we we do have a process um that we have to follow to make sure that we're we're notifying someone right or appropriately.

Um we we make extensive efforts to make sure that that individual knows that there's a fine, that they're issued uh a letter.

We will the education part, we we reach out to them and contact them by phone, we'll leave a door hanger or try to make some kind of notification that there's a violation on the property.

We'll issue the fine, um, the fine will be left on the property, and a letter will be sent to the individual.

If that goes unpaid at that time, then our clerk will follow up and start the lien process, and that has several steps of notification to the owner also.

So they have every opportunity to understand that that's there.

It seems like an awful lot of work.

Um with as you said yourself over the years, increasingly less results.

Um so without putting in that work, we would never get paid back.

And it's it's because of the liens that that any of this without the individuals that do the right thing and pay for their misdeeds.

Can you also explain to me uh why the fines are being issued each category?

Um in other words, housing, uh, litter, um, not picking up dog waste.

Right.

So I mean it I'm what what is included in that these fines are sure.

So our we'll start with blight because there's a chapter 7-42 defines every one of our blight violations, and there's I don't know, 26 items that are there, and it ranges from a broken window to a damaged roof to tall grass to solid waste on the property.

Um, and it pretty much runs the gambit of of everything in a blight ordinances.

Chapter 13 talks about housing violations, and which could be uh uh no heat or like your furnace doesn't work or a leaking pipe.

Things that are typically on the inside of the building.

Um other words the landlord.

Well, they're all these are all every every one of these violations is attached to the the property.

Okay.

So it's it's we're we're not going after tenants um for the for the for the wrongdoings of the property owner.

The property owner is ultimately responsible to manage their property.

And so if a property owner decides I don't want to cut my grass anymore, we're not gonna write a ticket to the tenant.

The property owner gets the violation, the violation then is attached by lien on the property land record.

So it's all it's all attached to that parcel identification.

I know there was some concern about these violations and fines going out being given beyond what was stated in the original um resolution.

Is there any you're gonna have to help me with that?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Okay.

Um I think one of the things was um panhandling.

Okay, so that does that's not it, that's not addressed in in this.

That's chapter bear with me.

I wrote it down.

Um I can answer that question.

Thank you, counsel.

Thank you.

So one-15 that's in the resolution sets the general general penalty.

Can you hear me?

I'm sorry, I can hear you great.

Okay, okay.

I just want to make sure.

Um sets the general penalty for any ordinance section in which there is not a specific penalty identified.

Okay, but panhandling, which is in fifth uh 16-146 has a specific fine in that um section, it's in 1615 one, and it says that the fine is 99.

So that would not change.

That would not change.

1-15 would only change any ordinance section that doesn't have a specific penalty cited in the ordinance section.

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome.

So another question.

Uh as far as the liens, how long are we holding uh liens on these forever?

Until they're paid and released.

So realistically, we're we're putting out these fines, we may never see the money back.

Well, eventually the house is going to transfer, or that property is going to transfer, and the only way to transfer a property is to have the clean title.

So when when I go to buy a house, I pay my attorney a lot to do a title search, and on that title search, this this will come up.

It's going to show the lien.

So will liens from seal and or our source and the gas company and the hospital and those kinds of things.

But I mean, are uh it could be a resident that just you know passes away before this can happen, the lien won't get paid until the house is sold.

Right, exactly.

Yep.

So when we're showing this in the budget, are we estimating how much money is coming in realistically from payment of the this is not part of my revenue from payment?

Okay.

Yeah.

This is yeah, this is not uh it just seems uh I I just question raising the amount because I don't see that the money's coming in, so why are we trying to raise the amount?

Uh we're not gonna see any more.

I well the m the money is coming in, and and I I think that the table that I they sent you shows that there are thousands of dollars that are coming in every year.

Uh well, 12,000 this year with 108 fines put out.

108,000 fines put out, and we received 12,000 dollars.

That was for the year 2025 from January to uh May.

And so that that's in 2024.

I'm seeing uh 105,000 dollars in fines went out, and we received 31,000.

Yep.

So by raising, how much I mean I'm not in and why are people having a hard time paying it?

Do they just are they just trying to buck the system?

I got a story for you.

Are they having a hard time economically?

Sure, I I this is and this is my story for that.

It's my war story for this one.

I when I was still an inspector, I went to a property to respond to a blight violation.

There was garbage and tall grass and things like that.

And I went and I tried to interact with the the person who was living there with the property owner, and I left them a warning and I came back a week later and the violations were still there, so I had to write a violation.

I gave the gentleman the ticket.

I said, you know, you're gonna have to take care of this.

He ripped it up in front of me and threw it in my face.

So, you know, if somebody doesn't want to, if if if they want to if they want to just fight the system, then you know there is no other way for this the city to take action against individuals that are breaking our laws than then by acting in a way that that follows the citation process.

And I guess that's my point.

I uh the way I see it if is if they're not paying at 99 dollars, what makes us think they're gonna pay at 150?

Because at some point they will.

Yeah.

All right, thank you.

Yep.

Mr.

Chairman.

Oh, go ahead.

All right, thanks.

Thanks for the information.

Uh can you can you talk about uh this is a general fee increase fine increase for the uh things itemized in in the ordinance?

Correct, plus one-one five, which is kind of the catch-all for any item that's not defined as having a specific violation.

But I take your point that uh you want to send a message uh uh and and uh I'd like to know how does this work in the context of the city's other anti-blight.

I'm talking about abandoned properties and other things.

Uh it can be ramped up into legal action on on these things, and is this I take this fine increase as is just a tool for you to utilize.

Can you comment on anti-blight efforts in general?

So beyond beyond the fines, yeah.

And and I guess for my part, my my request is to give our staff the tools that we can say to property owners, we will not accept blighted conditions, we will not accept properties that are not well kept.

And we mean business in New Britain, and this is how we're gonna draw the line in the sand.

We're gonna increase penalties and we're going to demand that people take care of what they're responsible for.

Um, but in general, you know, our our efforts to address blight, um, you know, every year we see uh an uptick in complaints, and our office typically just to kind of set the table for this, our office is a complaint-driven office.

People call us, we respond.

However, when we have the ability, and and I I we did this last year, and I'll explain it what I plan on doing again this year.

Um, we do have some additional grant monies available through the state of Connecticut.

And so uh we allocated some of that money to be um to be applied to some overtime.

Last year, what we did, and we found it to be very successful, was on uh two separate occasions throughout the summer.

I broke the city down into seven regions for my seven inspectors.

I dispatched each inspector to one region, and they drove every street in the city of New Britain, educate first and force second, they went around and put door hangers on every property that had a violation on it as a as a reminder that you have an obligation to take care of your property.

A week later, they went back, and if those violations persisted, a ticket was issued because we were being ignored, and the rights of the people who live next door were being ignored.

And it's a lot about your neighbors.

If if my neighbor doesn't, and this is the broken window series, and we can get into all that, but if my neighbor's not taking care of their property, that's not fair to me.

I pay taxes, so why why should you know why should somebody else get away with something like that?

So what we did see, and the reason why I will say that it was very successful is somewhere you know in this in the summer months where we see the highest call volumes for blighted properties, um, we'll say 120 or so a month.

The following month, after we did these blight sweeps, the call volume went from about 120 down to about 60.

We made an impact.

We sent a message that it's not acceptable.

I have that money still available to me this year, and I'm gonna use it.

We're gonna we're gonna do this again, and we're gonna make sure that people understand that we're not gonna accept blighted conditions, we're not gonna accept our properties throughout our jurisdiction to be unkept because it's just not right, and it's against the law.

Yes, just one more, Mr.

Chairman, and I'll be done.

Uh and of course, as is in the ordinance, uh these fines assessed are appealable.

Yes, there's a process, absolutely constitutional right to appeal under state law and recourse.

So uh I uh I just want to say I I'm I'm supporting uh the fee increase for for the reasons uh shared with us tonight.

And to that end, we we don't we don't want to write tickets.

We would just want the proper, we just want the violations abated.

We just want everybody to take care of the property.

ordinance uh these fines assessed are appealable yes there's a process absolutely constitutional right to appeal under state law and recourse so so uh uh I uh I just want to say I I'm I'm supporting uh the fee increase for for the reasons uh shared with us tonight and to that end we we don't we don't want to write tickets we would just want the proper we just want the violations abated we just want everybody to take care of the property so that's that's our goal but when we have to um we have to have the tools available to us to make sure that we can get compliance and get a point across Santiago so I'm gonna go back when I first became councilman and I remember we went and did a walkthrough and it was about a hundred and eighteen plus residents homes that were blighted that we had we had listed and that we wanted what was concerns and we came back back again it went down to about 70 or something like that and then again kept going down and then now it's gone back up again right um now I just just to kind of piggyback on this was for instance last council meeting I just we submitted two resolutions on just dog feces in four streets I think lawler North Oak area that they're the you know and um their own dog owners walk their dogs and just allowing the the dogs to you know defecate the areas of neighbors you know neighborhoods and homes and you know and it's getting out of hand right now right because you got kids that walks around you got family walks around you know that they have to worry about you know maneuvering around feces and the 150 to be honest it's really nothing because again some you know some of them owners right homeowners or landlords are like yeah you know you know what I'll take care of that in about a year or two but the problem is is that it's still there and we we have to do something about it and we have to push it I'm one that I got I got a a hangar.

You know I had a washer hey I'm gonna be in I had a washer that usually I put out in the front because it's metal a lot of times scrap guy comes around and they come pick it up right and that's usually the good way to get it from out of your you know your neighborhood but I guess one of the guys came around and and found saw it there before we got taken away because they got taken away that same day and they put a hanger up on the house and I said you know I'm ready to call someone but obviously that went as soon as I came back out that it was out it was gone.

But I do see it.

I I I have one for instance down on uh on Pershing the truck has been abandoned for how long but he what he does is he moves it out moves back onto the property you know I mean and so it's like it's a game whereas it's it's it's nonsense because again I see my neighbors right we all maintain our yards maintain our you know everything just kind of because you you know you take pride of what you have and I'm not saying they don't take pride it's just maybe someone might not have the capacity to do it because you know they might be elders or things like that and but I know there's programs that we've been doing because I was part of it that we you know done mold lawns and painted yard you know fences and things like that and the education part is the the the tool that I think a lot of these owners that don't have that you know the the power to do need to kind of reach out and uh that's one thing I think that we need to start doing more is those like outreaches and say hey in the summers like we did you know if there's there are programs out there that that will help out some of the the the the homes that are you know in capacity of of actually taking care of yeah I mean we we do get some some church organizations that come into New Britain um and offer services and when when that happens I I make sure that my staff is informed about it um if there are properties where you know there is someone who it taking care of the property just becomes too much right um and so I I try to make sure that my my team understands that there are these resources available that we can try to to help and support these individuals because again we're we're not we're not out there to be punitive but we need to have things fixed and so if we can help connect the two people connected the organization with the person that needs the help then we win right luna thank you Mr.

Chairman um I have a few questions um uh with your experience do you see more um multifamily houses being fined versus uh single family houses it's hard to it's hard we have a lot of multifamilies in New Britain so you know on average it probably ekes out a little bit more with multifamilies but as a percent of of our housing stock I I don't think it's a huge difference it does that okay um and so like these these multifamily houses that are being fined or even I mean I I should say all the houses because I know there's a lot of um single family houses that are not owned by the people that are living there do you see the difference between like whether they're outside of the like the the landlords live outside of the state or in the city so most multifamily dwellings and there are some folks that are owner occupied but most of our multifamily dwellings are are not owner occupied um that that's that's less with single family homes um there they are also rented dwellings in those single family homes but there's a higher percentage

Does that okay um and so like these these multifamily houses that are being fined or even I mean I I should say all the houses because I know there's a lot of um single family houses that are not owned by the people that are living there do you see the difference between like whether they're outside of the like they the landlords live outside of the state or in the city so most multifamily dwellings and there are some folks that are owner occupied but most of our multifamily dwellings are are not owner occupied um that that's that's less with single family homes um there they are also rented dwellings in those single family homes but there's a higher percentage of ownership when you come to a single family residence.

Okay.

I'm only asking these questions because obviously right like if you're if you're a homeowner you try to keep up with your house you have pride in your house versus if you're just a landlord and I shouldn't say just there are great landlords.

Sure.

But if you live out of state or don't live in the city you're not as attentive to your property um as you would be if you live in the home um and then the liens um you put a lien on a property is that the set amount like the lien doesn't increase there's no extra penalties or there is there's interest on that lien there is interest okay I don't and I apologize I don't know what that rate is it's pretty low.

But if someone to your point if someone leaves a lien on it for 10 years it's it's gonna be more yeah I mean we should take care of it sooner than later then um all right and then um I mean I'm I'm very familiar with liens because a lot of departments do that a lot of I work for support enforcement that's what like the officers do they put lien on properties for child support and yes we don't right the we don't get paid quickly but the point is that when they sell the property then eventually yes we'll we'll get the money um to pay that um some the city is the same way I'm guessing um and then so is it is it standard practice for the city to kind of keep up with these fees when the state increases it like is that do you think most towns do that or this only came up because we saw that there was an ability to do an across the board increase so last year I I think it was last year um is when that enabling language happened and previous years there there might have been an increase in how much we can charge for blight but not for housing and not for animals.

So once we were able to get a dollar amount that raise everything up a little bit and I I don't think we should I don't think we should charge you know $300 for tall grass that there's there's a balance to these things but but I think that um I think it's fair time to be able to look at this again and make an increase.

Okay and I know um I know that the city does uh try to work with um with the homeowners because we had my dad lives on Eddie Glover Boulevard and he is real strict about his grass the the the lady that or the guy that lives across the street lives out of state and um city came right because this gr it's grass was very very tall and instead of you guys finding him you guys reached out to him and said hey you guys need to cut this grass and guy was like I'll be there Friday you guys gave him an opportunity instead of finding him so that that was great I just wanted to share with that um and uh I mean so these fees are uh you know it's not to punish people it's to it's for safety too because um elder uh elder woman Maldonado can um back me up on this I received a complaint during the winter um it was a week later and nobody shoveled uh this one property never shoveled their uh their sidewalk and so you have the kids at the on the street waiting for the bus that's not safe for them right at all um but uh elder woman Maldonado took care of it for us um so um I just I just want to thank you guys um it is it's not only about the fees and punishing people it's about about safety especially in this scenario uh keeping our kids safe so thank you Alderman Santiago I'll figure back off of the safety part you got residents or renters that have homes that um are not safe right because of electrical or water damage or mold or anything like this and you this is a tool where it forces landlords to do something about their homes that they they're renting to these individuals and you know it just kind of gives them a push like hey you know I mean it is 150 but if you look at cut those the question I was gonna ask you when is the the timeline for additional like say for instance he uh you went there in January we could do it every day okay we can go back every day um it's a case by case basis typically you know our normal procedure is we'll we'll go back and if it if it hasn't been done within a week um we could all we have the tool our clean and lean program okay and so if if a a ticket doesn't work or a couple tickets don't work then we can refer it and typically that happens and it's the most busy

or r renters that have homes that um are not safe right because of electrical or water damage or mold or anything like this and you this is a tool where it forces landlords to do something about their homes that they they're renting to these individuals and you know it just kind of gives them a push like hey you know I mean it is 150 but if you look at cut those the question I was gonna ask you when is the the timeline for additional like say for instance he uh you went there in January we could do it every day okay we can go back every day um it's a case by case basis typically you know our normal procedure is we'll we'll go back and if it if it hasn't been done within a week um we could all we have the tool of our clean and lean program okay and so if if a a ticket doesn't work or a couple tickets don't work then we can refer it and typically that happens and it's the most busy in the summer for for grass cuts and things like that just to keep just to keep that and that's the same process that we have the city as a uh contractor that we hired CW resources will go to the property um maintain the property remove solid waste or tall grass or overgrow vegetation and the costs incurred by that will then be be placed on a lien.

How many of those cases you had where they were come back at you in a like uh very frustrated angry kind of situation that we have to go to clean or that when you have done those that they just that they just they just well I mean it happens you know I mean we see there are some you know hard cases that just are adamant that they will not they will not take care of their properties and and again I it that's usually associated with the structure of the building we can do but clean and lean and take care of the the the propped landscaping that's pretty easy to do but what what we can't do is we can't go and rebuild a roof or you know fix broken windows that's not within the purview of that program.

So when that happens and the individual you know punts and just says oh I'm not gonna do it then we will we in we do increasing enforcement you know so we will continue to ramp up how how we do how we issue tickets once every 10 days goes to twice a week goes to so on and so forth and all the while you we even while this is going on we are still trying to make contact with the individual and plead with them to please just do the right thing and take care of these violations.

At one point when I first came on I about 20 years ago most of our enforcement was done through the criminal court system.

And so you know if you had these violations we really didn't have an active ticketing program in the city 20 years ago.

At that point if you recall we had a the there was a huge foreclosure issue and there was a lot of vacant properties and we we started to use our ticketing system a lot more vigorously um and while our ticketing program got more aggressive and more useful as a tool for compliance the judicial court system became a little less uh easy to to to navigate and so it be it became a a really natural handoff between having to go to court and spend a day in the courthouse for tall grass or we can go and and visit 15 properties or five properties and issue taking move on to the next one because there's always more work.

Right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay I just wanted to say thank you and also for clarifying a part of Pam handling it was a lot of misinformation out there so a lot of residence were concerned so thank you for clarifying that sure that was actually counsel but I won't take I won't take credit for it.

Alderman Gibson yeah I just have a uh quick question do you know how many uh individuals are being fined for the blight that have multiple properties no I um I mean we we try to keep a short list of of property owners kind of frequent flyers um and really that list is so that we have contact information for them um we you know we have a couple of ideas where these properties are again we're trying to educate first so we'll we'll make that call to either the the owner or their property manager to try to get a hold of them to get them into compliance with these other properties.

Thank you other women decide yeah okay um so do you think you're being forceful enough with the enforcement I think we try to be even handed I'm sorry I think we try to be even handed for I forceful is seems like we're we're we're trying to stick it to someone I I don't think we are I I don't want to do that.

I don't want my staff to do that.

Um but when the time comes that we have to do enforcement, then then yes, I think we're doing in my opinion.

Um the the appropriate amount of pressure is being applied to the individual case.

Yeah, I'm just wondering how many residents feel like uh you know this will go away if I ignore it.

Um we will never go away.

We will always be there to keep an eye on things.

So and with that in mind, and as you said, you put a lien on a property, it's gonna stay there until the house is sold, hopefully gets paid then.

So I know you're not a budget person, but when you're preparing your department budget and you're showing your expenses and revenue, uh how are you what are you estimating that revenue to be for the year from this particular fine?

This isn't the so when I said when I said as far as a budget person, this is not a line item in the health department budget, so I don't even speak to it.

Okay.

Where does it show up?

That I couldn't tell you, but I we could find out.

Okay.

Maybe for uh I believe I believe it comes through um property management because traditionally uh parking tickets were were administered through that office, and I believe it's saved there with with how the revenue comes in.

Okay, maybe if you can have that answer for us for the uh council meeting.

Thank you.

Alderman uh make motion.

Yeah, I think we get just a point of information.

I think you'll when we get our general fund book.

I think uh those estimates will be when it's when we get our book to act on at the public hearing.

When we get it, I've still been waiting.

Haven't seen department budgets be nice to be.

Well, you can look it up.

Uh let's stick to the issue at hand.

Um you'll find those estimates and it is through the finance or other departments that probably uh looks at past years, but it will be in there.

One last question.

Um so when you give these uh the fines um on the fine or the notice, does it does it say you have the right to appeal this ticket and what to do or where to call?

Yep.

Okay.

So uh on the ticket, there's some information at the bottom of the ticket, and also as part of our process, um a letter is issued to the property owner at the address they have listed in our for our tax assessor.

So if someone doesn't have the right address, they they need to update that information because that's where their tax information is also going.

But we'll we will excuse me, send that letter to their to the address that they have listed and make sure that they've been notified with that has information on how to send in an appeal.

Um and then our again, our our clerk will walk people through that.

People can come in and they'll it will they're helpful.

Okay, I've got great staff.

Great, thank you.

Are you for the uh woman to learn?

Yeah, I just want to say thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any further discussion?

Call the question?

I'm sorry, call the question, Mr.

Chairman.

So move uh I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry, yeah.

All in favor of um no further uh discussion.

All in favor say yeah, to call the question.

Aye.

I nopped the eyes.

Have it called question passes.

Now it's the agenda um any further question on the no, now it's just uh on the motion.

I mean um referring to the council neutral, yeah.

Neutral.

Uh neutral um uh motion motion to uh refer to the common council with a neutral recommendation.

All in favor?

Aye, aye, all opposed?

No.

The ayes have it, uh uh one uh no.

The next item the agenda is item number 37100 to study establishing a new written municipal identification card program.

May I have a motion?

Uh Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to refer item number three one three seven one zero zero to the council with a fair vote recommendation.

Second second uh motion made by Alderman Santiago, second by Alderman, uh Alder Woman Luna.

Any uh discussion on the motion?

Uh I'm sorry.

Uh do we vote on it first?

No, we didn't make discussion.

Discussion on the motion.

Yeah, all the all the women to learn it.

So um, am I asking you the questions?

Uh uh I have a list of questions.

Um I I think it's an admiral idea, but with our budget and uh what I'm anticipating our budget being this year, I don't know that it's the right time to implement this kind of a program.

Do we have any indication of what the cost will be because this is gonna it's a study, so that's something we can find later on once we do this that we conduct the study, and then after that, that's when we determine if it's something that we can implement this year or the following year.

And are we using other cities uh as examples while we're doing this study um to get an idea of uh the amount of time that's gonna be put into it, whether or not we need additional staff, um ongoing, what are we anticipating?

Because it uh my understanding is it won't be a one time one time program.

I mean, if we're gonna be issuing issuing out these cards, when people lose their cards, they're gonna be coming back to us.

So um I'm concerned about the time uh that's gonna be involved in maintaining the program moving forward.

So I have been in communication with Hartford residents and also for with the people they implemented that in Hartford, and they provide me all the evidence, so I will be happy to share it with you, and maybe we can review everyone can review it and provide more uh ideas to see is this something that we can do, but it's for me.

I can tell you a lot of the benefits.

It's gonna help the I got I have few like is a proof of identity and residency, access of city services, health care access, interaction with law enforcement, enforcement, and many more.

But I understand the part that you're saying about the money, and that's something that we don't want to do it only with one term and not do it with the following term.

Yes, but I'm happy to provide you that information and also I can bring you someone that can provide more information about it that from cities that they already implemented.

So who actually is doing a study for us?

So that's something that I'm gonna be working with Hartford because they already provide me that information, and I'm gonna bring it to them, and they will guide me.

This is my first term, so they will guide me what else I have to do, and also the the lawyers who will tell me what's what are the same things that we can do and we cannot do.

Okay.

Um I also have a concern of duplication of efforts.

Yes.

So um when you say duplication of efforts, uh, what are you referring to?

Well, you know, many of our residents already have some type of ID.

Maybe not everybody, but many have are already some type of ID.

So how do we determine who needs a card like this and who doesn't?

Does it go to all our residents?

Does it just go to um residents that don't currently have any way of accessing these programs?

So these type of ID is very helpful for residents like homeless.

We we we understand like a lot of patients.

I'm sorry, what I say patients are working at clinic.

So I know that a lot of homeless they lost their birth certificate, their identification, so it's very hard for them to find uh DMV ID.

So it's easier to pay $10, $15, then find their documents and they go to the DMV and get the document.

That's something that is very hard for them because they don't have that documentation.

And the same thing could happen with with these cards, they could lose them.

Um, and again, my concern it it sounds like it would be an ongoing cost, an ongoing program.

Um I just thought lost my thought.

What do you think of that?

Uh marketing.

Again, how do we get how do we get the message?

Again, I know it's it's a study you're gonna be looking into, but that's another cost we have to think about marketing, getting the message out to these people.

How do we get that?

So the marketing that I that I the research, the way that I found is the the community like resources like hospital advertising, social workers advertise it, case manager advertiser, the shelters places advertised it, and also the the city work in conjunction with those agency to have to make sure that those people that they don't have the DMV or they cannot they don't feel comfortable going to the police station to get to get because I believe the police station they can provide like uh a way to get uh the license or the DMV, but some of them they don't feel safe going to those locations.

So will those organizations be uh handling this work for us, or is it gonna be an office here at City Hall that they come to?

No, that's more like outreach.

I can tell you the Hartford, the way they have it, they have it in the Hartford Library, and these they welcome to go, they don't have to make an appointment, and they are the one who actually process the ID and all that stuff.

I think the only fee that we will need to get is more like the machine because after that we defeat they basically paying for it.

So our homeless residents are gonna be paying to get this.

So there's a lot of agencies like community health centers, that they pay for it.

Is a lot of agencies out there like car, yes, nonprofit organizations if they actually work with the sh with the homeless, they pay for it.

Case managers pay for it, hospitals pay for it, and they would be willing to take this on.

That's something that we will need to bring it up to them.

Okay, Mr.

Chair.

All right, thank you.

Um the the purpose of this resolution is the feasible study.

So basically, that's gonna the questions you're asking is probably after that feasible study is taking place because if I'm correct, Miss Um Cobra Council.

Um this is just basically information that's collectively done by the city, and just say, okay, for instance, we refer to Hartford and other New Haven, New Haven, and other entities around that have the same program, and then just pick off of and see how much the cost is for each one of their averages, and then we just it comes back to us with a report.

Am I correct?

Um go line.

Oh, let me show myself.

I got how you got this one.

Oh, it's me.

Okay, there he goes.

Sorry, yeah.

The resolution is just really calling for the study, it's not calling for the implementation of anything right now.

So yes, you collect all the information, and then the committee can make a decision on how to proceed from there.

Um the study, you have 12 months according to the resolution to complete the study.

So it's not according to the resolution, it's not an immediate task that you would have to complete.

And then you can decide once you get all the information what to do from there.

Um I I realize it's a study, and the reason I'm asking the questions is just to get a sense of whether it's worth moving forward with.

Do we know I think have you looked into any information yet to I mean, for the reason to bring this forward, and you must have looked into some of the information from other from the other cities that use this program.

And do we know what the costs are?

I mean, any indication of what the cost is to run the program.

So the program can be work in different ways.

If it's a nonprofit organization, it doesn't cost anything.

If if we connect it with a nonprofit organization that is willing to do it, it doesn't cost nothing to the city.

So is after the study, we can determine what exactly what we can do.

And sometimes the majority of the time, those those IDs are waived by an agency, but the city still get the money.

Okay, um, I guess that's all the questions I have for now.

Alder Woman, just Alder Woman, just so you know, if you go onto the City of Hartford website and you put ID, it has a whole listing overviews.

There are Hartford does have a cost for them.

Um, but it has different sections that you can take a look at just for your information.

Um I just want to say the feasibility is the key word here because I have all those questions too.

And uh and uh a main feature uh in that is the economic impact, both on the city and on residents, and uh that's why I think it's it's worthwhile looking at it for the reasons stated in the ordinance, which are for those who may have difficulty or barriers to federal or state IDs that they that will give them access to services, and uh and also will aid in public safety.

If people feel they're a part of the community, they have an ID, they won't say I'm not gonna call the cops because somebody is uh killing somebody next door, you know.

So that's I think the feasibility is the right way to go very uh and then we can assess the costs and benefits of it uh in terms of that and be asking the police, we'd be asking the health department.

We uh be asking any to weigh in on on on their opinions as well.

Thank you.

I don't even know if we need the microphones, but uh uh I'm asking the questions because that's why we're here.

I mean, we we need to determine whether or not this is worth going forward.

So even though I asked the questions now, I may ask them again at the meeting, but I think it's it's worth kicking it around a little bit.

Thank you.

You are Mr.

Chair, Alderman Santiago.

I agree.

This is where we this is where the hash in the questions and everything does go by.

You know, we you know there's times where people question this is a committee, right?

This is where why we sent it here is for us to get the information and do our due diligence.

And um, and I definitely agree with that 100%.

I'm just looking at it as um my concern, my main concern was actually the physical because it'll be feasibility was is it gonna be legal, right?

Is it gonna be and so that's why this part of it is the um the feasibility would be a great tool because again, obviously we'll need to know is it legal to have them or is it you know, because I was one of the questions because remember I remember in check caching clinics, right?

They used to get those little IDs and if you couldn't catch a check, they used to give you ID so that way you were able to at least cash the check.

Um so I kind of see it going almost similar to that way, um, but more on especially for the immigrants and and and and individuals that might not have the capability of uh getting a state ID, but at least there's some kind of identification that says that you know I am who I am and and the reasons why I'm here.

But again, it is definitely the a cost concern for all of us, I think it is, especially now, being that the way that things are going.

Um so but I I my my question is I'm I don't know if corporate counseling maybe answered is where would this get sent to for um referral?

Because this would definitely be a referral to a committee or to uh department you I think that the committee should have more meetings on this, and maybe you wanna establish like a separate or a subcommittee of this committee.

I don't know how it depends on how you guys want to do it, but you may want to invite people to get information.

Maybe you want to invite someone from Hartford to come in and if they're willing to sort of explain how their process works.

The idea is for all of you to gather the information that you need in order to move forward.

Um so and I know that Caleb mentioned this earlier in the week, so um he might have some information about it.

Um but not maybe for tonight, but he might be a resource to you guys as well.

So I I think so.

Does that mean we make a motion to table this for the next meeting?

Correct.

But this for the next for today's.

No, if we send it to the council, then we're gonna t table it.

So it's better it is better to table it here and have that information brought in like the individuals you have come here, because again, we're you're gonna you know take it out and have the conversation on full council.

We'd have more information.

So you it's better to have it here and then have those individuals come here, and then we could we basically we're doing a study.

Yes, that's what we're doing.

We'll be the one the council to do the study.

So we could get if we would get the Hartford and New Haven, maybe reach out to all those entities that have the existing um license um IDs, and we could bring them here, and then again actually have our own professionals that are you know, our members that are in the in the city itself, too, that have some familiarities who have some kind of you know, legalities and stuff, corporate council is the one that we could kind of collectively do here because we got 12 months basically you gave us.

So I think that's sufficient enough time for us to do some due diligence do our homework and make sure we get something right here before we bring it down to the council for them to be to pass it as what we want it to be.

Right.

So this is where we would want to do it here anyway.

So um I would mean again I'm gonna motion to table it and then we'll continue the conversation.

I feel like it's not we're going to have study on the motion.

Okay.

Yeah, just put your microphone on the mouth.

I'm sorry, when you mention when you mention table, it means like it's gonna stay.

So here in the motion, as actually asking the resolution for a study.

Okay.

So it's not when you say table it, we're not going towards the study.

You're tabling it because you're not ready to do the study tonight.

So when it's tabled, it's gonna be carried on the agenda of this committee for the rest of until you take it up again.

So at the next meeting, for instance, if you wanted to invite some folks to come and provide information, you can take it off the table, gather information, and then you can table it again.

I mean it's it's how you guys want to do it, or you could do a special meeting just on this.

No, no, I understand, but I was under the impression that getting all those experts coming, it was part of the study.

But how are you gonna do that as a body if it's not in a committee?

If it's not if this is the body that's doing it, you have to do that at a public meeting as a quorum of the committee.

Do you know you just know what I'm saying?

Unless your thought was someone else is gonna do the study, but it it's you guys were are gonna be doing the study.

You're the ones that are interested in it.

So my understanding was that you would be gathering information.

Okay, thank you.

So I don't mect more point of information.

So I I think the court counsel is suggesting that you don't need to send a resolution approving a feasibility study, the committee can in and of itself do the physic feasibility study on this topic and then draft a resolution to say we're gonna implement an ID program.

Is that your point?

Yeah, I mean, I guess I wasn't thinking of it than that aspect.

So you're this is merely a this is merely a fee the f seeking the council approval, but it may be the this uh sort of sets an agenda for this committee to gather the information, and so we could you know I don't think it slows it down to uh table and then and then gather the information, but the next resolution will be a resolution up or down on having an ID program.

Is that what I'm saying?

Although learning I don't know.

I still I I'm still thought that we should have a little more information before we send it up because then we're gonna be out they're gonna be asking questions of us.

So I I would like to make a motion to table uh motion to table on that's on the floor.

Um second second did you don't agree, my hands I didn't second it.

I said we need a second we need a second second.

We need a second second so Alderman Gibson.

Oh, let me give all the all the uh min Gibson seconds of motion to uh table it on a um question council we got we know I got the motion for a table to table, yeah.

My question is if we pass this over to the council, that the the resolution is just asking for for the council to approve a feasible study.

Am I correct?

Is this resolution correctly in saying that you want a feasible study done by the the city itself?

Right, and so then my my other question is do we send if we send this back excuse me, and if it gets passed as a resolution, then we have to put another resolution in in correct on on on the the act of of IDs, correct?

You know that's what's not making sense to me.

So you're gonna send it back to them asking for a study, and then what happens they're gonna approve a study, and then you have to have another resolution on the study.

I'm trying to figure out what the thought process was here.

So if the thought process was just to do a study, do you want more information on whether it's feasible to even recommend that to the council?

Yeah, Mr.

Chant, that's that's my point.

Alderman McMurray, yeah.

If you it stays in committee, the information we gathered, the economic impact, the the uh benefits, uh, the uh to the population can all be assessed, and this resolution could be amended to implement such a program.

So I think it can stay in committee.

I'm comfortable with that.

Uh and uh in fact it may slow the process down to do the physical send a feasibility resolution to the council.

Otherwise, unless we're gonna designate uh the specific entity in the department to to do the do the assessment for us, but uh the buck stops uh with with here, so I don't think it slows it down.

I'm supportive of the idea, uh but we need uh but we can uh we can actually uh uh dispose of it uh favorably or not uh more quickly.

Well, you guys made a motion already.

I mean, because you know, this way if we can even decide at a further day who to forward the study to.

Somebody has to conduct the study, and we don't even know who that is at this point.

So on the motion to to table it.

Second bite.

Uh Alderman Gibson, all in favor of tabling it.

Uh yes.

Yes.

Alderman Santiago.

No.

Alder Woman Delernia.

Alderman Gibson.

I have four yeses and three no's.

Motion to table is been successful.

Motion to table carries.

Motion to adjourn.

All in favor.

Time is seven thirty seven.

This meeting is adjourned at seven thirty seven.

Good job, Ryan.

Thank you.

Thank you.