Good afternoon, and welcome to the preagentia interview for Wednesday, March eighteenth, two thousand twenty-six for the Pittsburgh Water and the Pittsburgh Land Bank.

Would the clerk please read the title of the bills?

Bill one thirty-five resolution appointing Lou Irwin as a member of the Board of Directors of Pittsburgh Water for a term to expire January one, twenty thirty-one.

And Bill one fifty-one.

Resolution appointing Jesse Ainsman as a member of the board of directors of the Pittsburgh Land Bank for a term to expire January one, twenty twenty-seven, serving the remainder of the term for a seat previously held by Tamara Dedukovich.

For the record, we're currently joined by Councilwoman Strassberger and Councilman Wilson.

What we would like to do is turn it over to you to tell us who you are and tell us why you're wanting and willing to serve on this board.

And then after you both go, we'll allow members to ask questions.

Also in my army responsibilities, I happen to be a combat engineer.

So what that means is I also had responsibility for uh overseeing, especially at senior level, uhseeing large construction projects and managing uh uh making sure that uh a bunch of moving parts are moving at the same time and in the same direction to uh to get to the required outcomes.

On the civilian side, um, and perhaps the reason I'm I'm at this table today, I'm uh a professor of uh American government public policy at Duquesne University.

Uh, where back in the day, our new mayor happened to be one of my students uh back in the two thousands.

So anyway, um as it happens, uh work a lot in the areas of public policy, and for the last uh really since post COVID years when I returned from the military, uh, we've been focused on a lot of local issues, city issues, county issues, public uh Pittsburgh public school issues.

Uh to include, I had uh Councilmember Strasberger had a chance to visit us in the classroom uh for public policy seminar last spring, as did then uh Allegheny County Controller uh Corey O'Connor and uh now chief of staff uh uh Dan Gilman.

So I have a a real serious interest in these issues and have been studying uh a whole host of issues that are important to us in our city and our region for for uh years now.

Um in terms of some other connective tissue, it gets me uh connects me to these responsibilities.

Um my wife and I live in Shenley Farm, so of course we are Pittsburgh Water Customers.

Um also the uh chair, they call it the president of our neighborhood association, the Shenley Farm Civic Association.

And back in the day, this was about 20 years ago, and it of course a much smaller scale than uh what we're talking about here in Pittsburgh.

Um I also served on uh the stormwater management committee in Peters Township for some years.

Um and the relevance of that, not only just being in kind of the whole area of uh provision and protection or water supply was looking at uh increasingly the increasing frequency of uh storms that we think of as 100 year storms, 50 year storms, 20 year storms, uh, but also the intensity of those storms and what mitigation we should undertake while in terms of water uh the infrastructure uh in order to deal with some of these emergent problems.

Um from all those perspectives, uh I think that um I can add something to the board uh in terms of their deliberations and their activities, uh but mostly I view this as an opportunity to serve the public, uh, an opportunity to learn and an opportunity to uh collaborate with the professional staff at the authority as well as uh my fellow board members if I am uh confirmed, and I I look forward to that opportunity.

Thank you.

Very much hello everybody, my name is Jesse Easman.

I'm a commercial real estate broker at JL.

First and foremost, I want to thank you all for having me here today and considering me for this board position at the Pittsburgh Land Bank.

First and foremost, I am fourth generation City of Pittsburgh.

My family originally lived in the Hill District, then over to Stanton Heights, eventually over to Squirrel Hill, which is where I currently live today, and I'm raising my two children.

I went to Taylor Alderdice High School and played City League sports my entire tri childhood.

Traveling to these different neighborhoods while playing sports really made me appreciate at a pretty young age how unique and special this city really is.

I'm proud to have remained in the city as an adult and like I said, very proud to be raising my kids in the city of Pittsburgh.

I've been a commercial real estate broker in our city for the past 12 years.

Currently I'm responsible for leasing office buildings in the city, such as Bakery Square in East Liberty, Mill 19 in Hazelwood Green, Tech Mill 41 in Lawrenceville, Fifth Avenue Place Downtown, and several other urban and suburban properties.

My professional career has been built on stabilizing and filling buildings for my clients who are all primarily established developers.

I work with local Pittsburgh developers as well as national and institutional developers.

I see this opportunity to serve on this board as a way to help the neighborhoods in the city that are often overlooked by the type of folks that I work with on a day-to-day basis.

As I mentioned, growing up and currently live in Squirrel Hill, I've seen the other neighborhoods that desperately need help.

And if I can help through activating unproductive real property, I'll be honored to accept that challenge.

I would also welcome the opportunity to be creative in generating recurring revenue streams for the land bank.

Please don't ask me how I would do that today because I don't know the answer to that question.

But what I am looking forward to is the opportunity to work with City Council, the existing board members, see what tools are at our disposal, use those tools and try to think outside the box and grow upon what we have available.

I'm familiar with the rapidly developing neighborhoods like East Liberty and the Strip District.

I know the local businesses, I understand the areas well, and I can identify appropriate uses for these undeveloped parcels.

However, like I mentioned, I'm particularly interested in working with the neighborhoods that need our help the most.

These underserved areas, in my opinion, need our support, and I feel very passionate about doing what I can with my skill set and with the power of the board.

If appointed to the board, I'll utilize my skill set, my network of real estate professionals, as well as the City of Pittsburgh residents to fulfill the duties of the land bank board.

Thanks.

Thank you very much.

Let the record reflect we've also been joined by Councilman Warwick, and we'll start with Councilman Schwarzberger.

Thank you, Mr.

President, and thank you both for being here today.

I appreciate your opening remarks.

And I'll also start by saying that if I need to step out before I do need to step out at uh just before 2 30.

So if I leave before we finish, my apologies in advance.

And I think this is my first time seeing your CV.

So it's incredibly impressive, and I'm glad that we're that you have been appointed by the mayor to the Pittsburgh Water Board, as you know I serve as vice chair, and um I uh I think that you know you bring a really interesting background to the to the role.

I um also appreciate that you have had some time to think about stormwater.

It's a big focus um and is it I think it needs to be an increasing focus of the of the board um and of the authority um as a whole.

I was interested in what you said about oversight and oversight of, you know, in the case of Pittsburgh Water, it's oversight of of contractors and subcontractors and ensuring that the work that's happening on the ground truly reflects the principles and the mission of the entity that uh whose name is you know is attached to it.

Um if you could expound on that a little bit as to how you think that that experience might apply to even recommendations, conversations within the board with the senior staff, et cetera, to help um continue to do quality quality control um uh operations, you know, on the ground.

Um I'd be really interested to hear some of your thoughts, initial thoughts.

So thank you for that question, uh, and it is certainly an important one.

Uh I had the opportunity to watch the public meeting of uh Pittsburgh Water from February.

And as part of the, as you uh no doubt remember, a number of the comments from the public had to do with the um with different contracted uh companies carrying out uh the work that Pittsburgh Water needed them to do and uh some of the impacts that those contracts, the contractors were having on our our you know, our neighbors' quality of life.

Um this is this is a tough one.

There's never an easy solution to these things.

Uh but certainly one of the things I was struck by is that I I think uh for all the great work that uh Pittsburgh Water is doing, this is something that we should as board take a look at, which is how do we make sure that uh in carrying out you've got so many different projects going in so many different directions, uh many of them on a five-year timeline, a 10-year timeline uh connected to different sequenced projects.

Um how can you still make sure that A, our neighbors um are know that they're being heard, and how can we oversee and execute those contracts in a way that we can minimize the adverse impacts uh while they're being done.

Um I've been at this a long time, um in a different setting, of course.

Um it's one of those things where you're never gonna please everyone, right?

But um uh again, in the early going, and I see evidence of tremendous work that this authority is doing.

Uh uh, this is something I think should be uh uh an area of focus going forward.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And uh Mr.

Ainsman, thank you for your willingness to serve.

I don't have too many questions, I'll let the the member of the land bank uh my colleague who's a member of the land bank ask um some of the more nitty-gritty questions, but certainly having served on a task force with my colleague Councilman Wilson to identify alternative streams or growth potential for the land bank.

I do care about that.

I won't ask you about it today where those sources are coming from because I don't think we fully know either, but um certainly agree that it's necessary.

Glad that you're thinking about it, glad that you're thinking of of how to scale, which is the is what's necessary.

Um and I guess the only thing I'll ask is is what are you kind of what aspect of of serving on the land bank board um are you kind of most interested in or most interested in learning about?

Sure.

I think number one would be serving and helping the you know underserved communities.

You know, the areas that you go in, the neighborhoods that have vacant lot after vacant lot, dilapidated housing, if we can acquire and put together a contiguous block of parcels and not just market that to residents and residential developers, but commercial developers as well, and not in the private sector.

Um I think that's what really I'm excited about for this opportunity is to help those neighborhoods use my skill set to do that, and also quite frankly, my network of developers to kind of expand the reach that we may have at this point.

And well, just to follow up, um the land bank's mission has up until this point been to ensure that those parcels that are being turned over to or disposed of to the private market are done so with entities that will meet certain standards around affordability, around responsible growth and development.

It's been an easier task, admittedly, I think.

I don't I'll don't want to speak for my c colleagues serving on the land bank, but probably an easier task to manage that with a sm lower vol with a lower volume of transfers each year.

If we see what we want to see, which is major growth, you know, it might be a little bit more difficult.

Is that something that you're you're committed to to continue that, you know, the mission of the land bank being for um a very particular kind of willing buyer um to meet certain standards are you know, like I said, around either a nonprofit kind of land trust or those who are committed to afford affordable growth, affordable development, that sort of those sort of standards.

I don't have all of them at the ready.

But yeah, no, I I think I can definitely add value in the developer vetting process.

Um I've seen developers over the past 12 years in all all shapes and sizes, I guess.

Um and clearly some have intentions that they do want to improve the city and make it a better neighborhood while obviously you know generating income through their through their properties.

So I think through the development, developer vetting process, but it doesn't end there.

It's holding them accountable as well.

So you see these developers, they say, yeah, we're gonna build a a beautiful park next to this, we're gonna make this beautiful building.

We have a local business who wants to do a 10-year lease in our building, then they better do that.

And I see the land bank board being kind of that authoritative figure to make sure they do.

Yep.

I have no further questions.

Thank you both for your willingness to serve to serve on these authorities, boards.

Um we couldn't do this work without um residents throughout the city and their willingness to serve in this capacity.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Wilson.

Yes, thank you.

And uh thank you both for your willingness to serve.

I'll start with uh Pittsburgh Water.

I think it's the first time I got that correct recently with the name change.

Um starting on a good note.

So yeah, very um very impressed with your uh you know initial um intro speech and really just interesting interested in your career in general.

Uh but I wanted to, you know, since we're here for Pittsburgh Water, I want to make sure I focus on that and and to that effect, um I think you've you mentioned how does Pittsburgh Water um like how does the public see her uh feel heard?

Did you say that recently?

Okay.

So I thought that was a good comment because I know I represent uh some residents that feel like you know unfortunately people look at some residents look at Pittsburgh Water as like um, you know, like they have just a lot of complaints about certain things that happen.

My take on it is it's great.

You know, Pittsburgh Water is great, they're they're here, they're trying to figure out this like you kind of pointed out this large problem, minimal resources and you know, they fit into that kind of government uh agency and you know uh I think uh they're they're trying to accomplish so much and it's typical construction work that they have to do to get to the to the um you know to the to the finish point to the um to the finish line in terms of whether it's a lead line, just getting that that lead line fixed.

But um just like my office, I I asked the same question, like how can we make sure the residents are feeling heard or the customers, I guess, in this in this uh you know, in this um when we talk about Pittsburgh Water.

So could you elaborate on that?

Like, do you have any ideas?

Do you see for yourself that Pittsburgh Water is doing something that doesn't make residents feel like you know they're they're um a good paying customer?

It's a great question.

Um now again, keep excuse me, keeping in mind that I'm brand new to this, right?

And uh to the uh Pittsburgh Water or PWSA as I knew it before.

Um the the first point I I would make is I I was made aware in talking to Will Pickering, the CEO, um about some of the let's call it the checkered history of of that authority and the management of uh Pittsburgh Water.

Uh for the record, my wife and I moved into Shenley Farms about three years ago.

We lived downtown uh for two years before that uh while we were looking for a home, uh so we weren't really connected to these issues uh at that point.

Um but a couple of things.

One, I would imagine this being Pittsburgh, the city we love, that um even if there are good things going on right now with Pittsburgh Water, and my initial sense as someone who has seen a lot of different agencies, departments, and offices of government, right?

All of the indicators I've seen so far have been positive ones.

And my interactions looking at meetings, reading through the mission statement, the values, uh interacting with some of the staff, uh checking out a little bit of the uh public meetings and and that of course not privy to the executive uh sessions.

Um but anyway, I would imagine uh the whole veolia uh management uh issue from uh now I guess about six, seven, eight years ago.

I would imagine that, especially for some of our um our residents who are of more limited means, maybe don't have the ability or the uh to to really kind of be heard when they're reaching out and there's something going wrong with their water service or and and maybe they're they're the people that are easiest to ignore.

I would imagine that there is a lot of uh residual uh call it resentment, uh dissatisfaction, uh memory of how this water authority was not uh responsive, did not uh uh and you know, we'll walk me through some of the dynamics of that, how the profit uh structure was set up for that management company and why it in almost, well not almost, it incentivized poor service, right?

Limited service.

So I would imagine the first thing that's going on here, and again, I'm only saying this as an initial uh impression uh coming into this whole process and getting us getting my arms around what's uh going on here.

And again, I'm not I'm not judging uh what's going on now.

Every all the indicators to me have been positive ones.

Um but I would imagine there's still some memory of that and some lingering resentment or dissatisfaction, or maybe even, hey, you're gonna have to show me that you can actually uh do better than what I remember you doing.

So that's the first thing.

There's probably some of that context out there across, especially again for the folks who've lived in their homes the longest, uh maybe limited means, maybe the increases in water bills.

They saw their water bills go up, they did not see a corresponding increase in the quality of the service, maybe even it went the other direction, right?

Um and so that's probably out there.

But when I talk about communications and listening, you know, there uh and again, uh I I my sense is there are a lot of really good people doing a lot of good work in this uh organization.

And again, I'm talking about the professional staff, I'm talking about the board, I'm talking about the the people who are out there, the operators actually making these things happen.

Um there's a number of ways you can listen, right?

I I know that uh this uh authority uh or Pittsburgh Water did a recent survey, or maybe they do continual surveys where they're trying to get customers to tell them what the good and the bad is.

That should be, and I'm sure it is, just haven't seen it, systematized and presented to the to the authorities or to the board, so that the board can make decisions about priorities and and the weighting of resources that will connect to that.

311 calls.

Um just getting a sense from uh from the mayor's office, what are those calls about connected to uh water or sewer or or that?

Um responsiveness times in terms response times in terms of uh we had a really difficult winter this year.

In fact, for some reason it kept going yesterday.

I don't know why.

But uh anyway, you know, I I saw a number of water main breaks and that of course shut down roads over in North Oakland where we live and um going out towards the East End.

Um so again, being able to respond to those kinds of of emergent requirements quickly and effectively, that is a measure of listening to the to the community.

And then of course, for people who are really have some level of frustration uh or don't feel that they're being heard, you know, how do we respond to them when they come to make when they carve out time in their day, which is in the work week, to come out and come to a public meeting of the authority.

Um how do we take in their feedback?

Well, what's the mechanism for us to respond to that feedback?

Do we and again I I'm assuming we do these things, but that's a really important thing is to not just kind of nod and we've got it, but do you have a mechanism and a system in place to respond to people uh and to follow up to let them know that you've been hurt?

And again, last point on this, again, I I go back I I've we've we've all done this quite a while.

Your requirements are this big, your resources are this big.

So if you're gonna decide that you're gonna put a priority over here, that takes a priority away from something else.

And again, I'm not I'm not on the board.

Um I'm not prejudging the any decisions.

Uh again, my impression has been a very positive one with the leadership there.

But uh that'll be something that I'll be looking at and and certainly to respond to your question.

Okay, yeah, thanks.

Yeah, I think it's a real it's a real uh what do you call it, like real undertaking for the homeowner to understand what they're about to go through if they're gonna get a main line and then all the lead lines are placed on their street.

And from my experience um working with the public that you know who's living through the I lived through it on my street uh a couple years ago.

And um, you know, I'm kind of what am I I'm not gonna complain.

I'm I'm the government official.

Like I'm supposed to be responsible for you know, we're gonna receive complaints.

We're gonna receive the complaints, right?

Um but I just think it is interesting.

I mean, we uh it's surely needed, obviously, like you mentioned Viola and then the um you know the whole lead line, the lead issue focused on changing the lead lines, there's a mainline program.

So when those two two really um overlap, I that seems where there's a there's just a a real um real disconnect with the public because I just think they're not used to going through something like this.

When's the last major infrastructure thing that happened?

I mean, we're gonna have the the bridge after the tunnel.

That's gonna be a huge major disruption.

I can't remember what the bridge's name is, but after the screw hold tunnels, you know, that bridge is gonna be a huge was that commercial street bridge.

It's gonna be a huge undertaking, but right in front of their home, something like that probably hasn't happened in 70 hundred years.

You know, some major construction like that.

You know, we can pave in a day and be out.

But something like that, where you have to come back multiple times.

So I think it's truly needed.

I think it's a great job that p you know that Pittsburgh Water's doing.

I almost said it.

Uh but um I always just wonder if there's you know something else that could happen prior to that.

Like what, you know, I always there's definitely some brainstorming that could probably happen, but because there's a lot of work that still needs to be done.

Um good work.

And uh the only other thing I'll say um that I'll I'll um you know coordinate with the the council person here that's on the board.

Um but you know, and I think I've relayed some of this already, but there I guess I just wish that there was more of a agreement between PDOSA engineering or Pittsburgh Water Engineering and our uh street supervisors and our right of way people that basically are paving everyone who's involved with paving at the city.

Because I've had some streets that were done, you know, some sections of streets that were done by the contractor that was hired from Pittsburgh Water that aren't basically Pittsburgh Water doesn't agree with how our paving people at the city would have done it.

So I don't I don't know.

There's a big disconnect there that I'm seeing recently.

And you mean who had responsibility for that?

Well, it's a you know it's a street that's repaved through the through the um through Pittsburgh Water, and then when there's like some some pooling of water that didn't used to be there before, you know, let's say, for example, um, you know, there's PWSA has an understanding Pittsburgh Water has an understanding that they they're not responsible to improve the street.

So at the city, we improve the street.

If we see that there is this puddling happening, we take action to improve the street.

So I think, you know, we only got that one shot at paving every so many years.

Um so I think that's you know, I'm not sure that that's really down at the board level, but um I think that also speaks to the relationship between the customer and and Pittsburgh Water.

So um I'm currently working through some of those issues.

We've been working through for really maybe the past uh uh ten months, and I think it's rising to a point where I'm gonna you know put the put together some uh some higher level meetings to try and figure out what's really going on because it's not happening just one instance now.

It's like oh there's another instance and I think all the all the paving that Pittsburgh Water is doing.

I I'm sure there might be more.

I don't I don't represent everywhere in the city.

So I'm I am interested in that because you know, we have a certain contractor of paving here at the city, and um, you know, I know there's more than one contractor that's that's uh contractor for paving for Pittsburgh Water, so uh but um you know that I don't really need a comment on that.

I'm just saying that's something I'm currently working through, and I think it speaks to you know, because that those residents are wondering like well, the if the city would have done this, they would have the city's telling them like we would have done a better job.

I we'll give you a quick one.

So I've made a note of that.

Um to carry it back, uh should I be uh confirmed.

Um but I think that kind of connects to the contract, the provisions of the contracts, right?

So it's something you you can ask about.

Um what's the standard for the remediation, the pavement remediation after the work is done?

Is it just a patch standard, or is it back to uh, you know, the the standard that um I think it was Domi, right?

Uh that would would they um bring it to that standard?

So I think that's a contract provision.

Now the additional provisions, as you know, might cost additional money.

But the the other piece is also connected to my original comment about um the kind of the conduct of the sites and minimizing the mess, minimizing the disruption where you can.

Uh there's some, as you know, what better than I do, there's sometimes you just can't get around that, right?

Um in fact it took me 20 minutes to get here by bus from Oakland.

Uh but uh your point's taken.

Yeah.

Yeah, and uh the only thing that I heard that feels like it would solve a lot of it, uh, because I have had a great paving experience from the from city employees and the contractors that we hire, they've been able to fix so many flooding issues, so many on street water issues to keep water on the street and into the catch basin.

I've had a phenomena my residents have had a phenomenal phenomenal experience whenever that's done by the city.

And uh the only solution I could think of is that we just the city of Pittsburgh takes on the repaving, you know, after Pittsburgh Water has come through.

I would defer to the council on that.

I don't know what would it what it would take to do that, but um I'm interested in this conversation, so I know we're getting into the the weeds on something new.

Okay, yeah.

Okay.

Well, we will obviously follow up on that then.

Uh if multiple more than one of us arrive at that um that question.

So uh thank you for your time.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

And uh Jesse.

Good to nice to meet you.

Yeah.

And uh thanks for your want us to serve.

I want to go back to some of the things that you were first mentioning in terms of you know, combining um, you know, parcels for like commercial developers.

Um that's possibly something we could get to at the land bank.

I know right now um, and I want to get your take on this.

Right now we're really working through how to get properties sold to you know uh individuals, entities that aren't just um like neighborhood organizations that have a CDC.

So we have a for sale program, and you know, to find the perfect, you know, I don't know, I'm just gonna uh pick up some example like the newly like a newlywed that wants to newlyweds that wants to fix up a house, you know, are they gonna they are they fully aware of how to get a construction loan or they already have money to do that?

And you know, are we able to so I think our next step I think that's hard really hard to find?

And I was wondering your your take on this, but I was just curious on um just in general, like even if we move past them, we sell to a reliable contractor that's gonna fix it up and then sell to um you know, because we have a deed restriction on these that it would have to be owner occupied for for five years.

That's currently the model we're working with.

What what do you think the interest is of um people, anyone looking to invest, whether they're relocating from somewhere else or just um someone lives in the city and they want to they see that house down the street and they want to fix it up?

Like, what do you what do you think the interest is of uh of you know, just in general of the public because since you work for JL, you know, you're obviously aware of the interest of office space.

So I just didn't know if you had a take on what the interest of just even what we're even trying to do here.

Sure.

Which is the may the major one is to stabilize the house uh, you know, if we have to at all, and then sell it.

You know, we have a good tool, we have a good tool to clean the title fast and you know, move the with the property as fast as we can faster than it would be at the at the city or at the URA, so we have this great tool, but our outlying issue um, you know, usually is this is how much interest do we have in you know, this this um whether it's one house or multiple houses to fix up and then get them back on the tax rules.

Sure.

So I think the end user you're referring to right now gets on their phone, they go to Zillow.

They may not even know the land bank exists, know that these resources are available to City of Pittsburgh residents, and I think it's really a marketing thing that the land bank should strengthen as far as making the general public, younger married folks, multifamily developers, smaller who are developing maybe two or three houses at one time, they need to be aware of these services, they need to be aware of the tools that we have and that how they don't have to go through a typical sales process that they may be used to, and it could honestly it could be easier as long as it's the right developer, the right user, I think it really comes down to marketing.

Because these users you speak of, like I said, like they're on Zillow, they're on Loopnet, whatever public site that they get through Google to search.

Yeah, so I believe we're on Zillow now.

Um I'm not saying we're you know fully up and running with every single property on there, but I believe um, like the one on Antrim, I think we had on Zillow.

I can't remember where that property is, but uh we that is definitely you know the mindset of our um executive director, acting executive director right now, Sally Statelman, in terms of trying to sell you know a property in in a more popular way.

Sure.

And I think residential agents should be aware of these properties too.

It's you know, residential agents typically work in the neighborhoods, they have their specialties.

There's you know, the the East End broker, the South Hills broker, those are the folks that we should make aware of what is in the bank right now.

What what opportunities we do have?

Not everyone's coming to them and saying, hey, we want a house that's ready to go, beautiful backyard, swimming pool.

A lot of folks want to fix up a house.

They want to eventually flip it, they want to develop it, they want to build it.

And I think, yeah, not to keep repeating myself, but comes down to to marketing and making them aware, and there's a lot of different ways the board could go about that.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we're definitely we're definitely on Zillow and I maybe some other um you know, websites as well.

But do you think that and we're we're not gonna figure this out here?

Um, but I'm just you know curious, like do you think that we have an issue with individuals that are interested in actually rehabbing the house and living in it?

Like do we have like enough pool of individuals that are interested in that, or do you think that we have uh uh you know an issue with the bank?

Like, do you think that the bank isn't really favoring individuals that are interested in doing that type of that type of um construction?

Sure.

I can't really speak to the demand of the individuals that would be looking to do that type of work instead of just buying a house, but I do think that they do exist, they are in the city, and they need to those people need to be made aware of the land bank.

Because if like obviously I didn't go on Zillow and didn't see our the listings on Zillow, but is it make it clear that these are parcels and properties that are part of the land bank?

And if so, what does that even mean?

And how could this process be different than what they expect this process to be?

I think that's where the advantage could be.

Okay.

Now you have uh quite um extensive experience with working with developers.

So you know uh how do you see yourself utilizing that experience with us?

Because we do have um, you know, we do have uh process that we are vetting different buyers, and so regardless of whether it's a developer or a CDC, a nonprofit, like do you think that uh there's room um you know for improvement and how do you see that?

I think it really comes down to what the plans are for these people, right?

Whether it's a developer, whether it's you know whoever that may be, the use of what they're gonna do with that land is important.

And quite frankly, I'm a bit excited for the opportunity not to represent the developers and represent the city of Pittsburgh on that, to really put in these communities what needs to happen in the type of uses that would improve, you know, everybody in the neighborhood.

All right, my last question, I'm gonna give you more questions because I'm I'm ready.

Uh you know, I've been on the board uh for the past few years and I'm deeply invested in it.

Uh so the other one was just I wanted to ask you, you know, how do you feel about being on a board that you know we don't have to sell to the highest bidder.

So at the city we have to sell to the highest bidder.

So like, you know, on the the land bank, like I said, it's a good tool, is that we do have you know the ability to not sell to um you know speculators from out of town.

You know, we we have uh you know, very you know uh a family style feel to you know, trying to you know give property from the land bank.

We want to know that you're invested in the neighborhood, the community, and maybe I should say we have a community-driven, not family style.

We have a community-driven like process.

So, you know, that's I think that's that's important for me because I know a lot of issues that we see in an area, like as a representative when I see in the neighborhood, especially like you know, Airbnbs that are have an unruly party is like that's I think that's a really the LAM bank's a really important tool with making sure that properties gotta get into the right hands.

And so how do you feel about you know being on a board that is gonna um take all a lot of different factors into consideration to sell a property to an individual individual or you know, an entity.

Uh refreshed, I think is the word.

I think it would be very refreshing to be able to think not like a developer looking to maximize profit, however, which way that would be, but instead of just looking out for the community at large.

So not just in my job, obviously, the highest bidder for a deal gets the deal.

And sometimes that's not right.

So with this opportunity to be on the board, quite frankly, doing the right thing would feel pretty good.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

Thank you for your comments.

Yep.

Thank you, Councilman Woolwick.

Yeah, thank you.

Um, thank you both for being here.

Um for your willingness to be on these boards or authority.

Um I'll start with with Pittsburgh Water.

Um I represent and I live in actually four mile run.

I don't know if you're familiar.

So I guess I would just ask you uh if you're familiar with the flooding issues in that area and kind of the history of it, and if you have any thoughts about that area.

So I I will uh I am not uh I will say I am within the last two weeks, right?

So I I've learned about this.

Um both uh the CEO of Pittsburgh Water, um Will Pickering and Matt Singer, who's sitting back here from uh the mayor's or the chief of staff's office, uh both uh brought that to my attention and said this was uh an issue that uh is unresolved and that there are uh quite a few folks who are frustrated by this.

And um when Will walked me through this, um I understood exactly why, right?

You know, there's an old saying among engineers that we um we underpromise, we aspire to underpromise and over-deliver, right?

In this case, I think with good intentions, people may have overpromised and then not been able to deliver.

And um so as I understand it and you understand it far better than I do.

Um there was a there were a couple of different initiatives to resolve uh this.

Uh but they ran into a couple of of walls.

Uh one was a design wall where the design was not adequate, another one was a resource wall, and then another one uh which is uh is uh a pretty common one is superimposing an intended design over top of an unknown subgrade and un and other um let's call it other uh requirements.

Uh flooding uh that you really have it it it just made it too hard to be able to deconflict the design as they had had uh pulled it together.

Um so I I wouldn't pretend to have a solution to this as we sit here.

I would just um reassure you that uh again, Mayor's office and and Pittsburgh Water both brought this to my attention and as we were talking about uh preparing for this potential board service.

And um it's definitely something that's on the radar and something uh talking to Will, I don't know that there are any near-term quick fixes for this, but it's certainly something that has to be resolved.

Yeah, I mean currently the the the status is that uh Pittsburgh Water has put in monitoring systems to see if prior work has uh how much prior work has alleviated the problem to date.

Um I would say just as a new board member, um I would encourage um just generally reaching out to some of the and not and not just for for this area of the city but but throughout the city with um uh our sort of water advocates, right?

I mean in addition to sitting down with council members, right?

But you know there's there's a whether they whether they're working on our watersheds, whether they're working in our parks, whether they're working with um, you know, users, right, to really sit down with those folks who are advocating on the various aspects who are often the ones lobbying Pittsburgh Water to do this or do that.

Um I think that that would be an eye-opening experience, right?

To just hear hear hear about Pittsburgh Water from their perspective, right, as sort of you know water advocates and and and whatnot.

Um and I think that Pittsburgh Water is doing a better job uh in recent years of engaging with those those groups, right?

But it's it's worthwhile, I think, as a new board member to connect with them as well.

Um I'm glad Councilman Wilson mentioned utility coordination and sort of the idea basically of uh I like the idea too of our utilities just kind of paying us basically to do the work and then we manage the work because the utility coordination is not great.

And that's not just Pittsburgh Water, but it's it's the other utilities as well.

Um at some point I think we're gonna have a post agenda about that to kind of talk about the issue overall.

So thanks for bringing that one up.

Um another question I have is around um budget transparency.

So there was an article recently in, I think public source that um uh talking about the Pittsburgh Water Board and specifically kind of passing budgets without much discussion.

So the board meetings are public, right?

But then passing budgets without and you know without much discussion at that meeting and it sort of being or seemed to be that that you know the discussions had happened prior to the to the board meeting, right?

Like sort of I can't remember exactly, but comments like, well, we've all talked about this with y'all and you know what I mean?

And so and so that that issue of transparency.

I don't know if you have any thoughts about that or I that that's the first I've heard of that article.

I'll check out the article.

You said public source.

I think so, I'm pretty sure.

Um I don't have anything at this point.

Yeah, I mean just with with you know utility bills being so high and um you know requests to the PUC to increase rates even more, right?

The public has you know um in the same way.

I mean our our budget process at Council is incredibly public, right?

Like we have to, you know, we have public hearings and and whatnot.

But I think uh with our with uh an authority as large as PWSA, it's important to have that too.

Um with regard to that, I don't know if if uh my uh something that sort of and and maybe this is related to uh my experience in the four-mile run, but um, you know, the storm, my understanding is that the stormwater fee that we all pay uh does not necessarily go to stormwater management.

Um I don't know.

That's something that sort of sticks in my side a little bit.

Um but it'd be interesting to understand that a little better.

Um I wanted to ask too if you had any thoughts around this kind of issue of private sewer lines.

I don't know if you have that in Shenley um you know where so it's something you see it a lot in the East End in Regent Square and kind of the older you know you have those brick streets where it's like the sewer line so there's a homeowner and they have a sewer line but it's a private line and or I mean PWSA says that it's a private line.

Right line up there.

Like it was built back whatever a hundred years ago like not in I mean maybe the city didn't build it but some and and so what happens periodically is something happens to the line because it's not because PWSA doesn't accept ownership of the line the line is not being checked I don't think so there's not a warning around so all of a sudden a homeowner or even worse a whole street and so now it's like multiple homeowners have you know tens of thousands potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in repairs on a sewer line that they didn't even know they were responsible for do you know of any places that I mean I know it was the East End Avenue might have been one in Regent Square.

That was a one from a while back.

I don't know if I can ask the question.

Yeah it's it's something to it's something to to look at as a new board member you know because they there is sort of this idea of like well why doesn't a PWSA own those lines you know why aren't they responsible for why just because they were built a hundred years ago I mean that seems you know or or if not that like is there I know that there's a new insurance offering I don't know if it's from Pittsburgh Water but it's somehow through Pittsburgh Water.

But even that is not really enough.

It might be like 15 or 20 thousand dollars.

So that's an insurance offering for that common line not just for the one from the house.

I I I believe so but at any rate it's something it's it's you know it's a tricky situation for a homeowner to be in right to like all of a sudden they're suit you know or their neighbors or their you know there's a whole that's not even in front of theirs it's their neighbor and how do they fix it and it would be nice if PWSA well I would love to see PWSA just take ownership just be like look we're the sewer we're the water we're the sewer and we'll take ownership of all these lines um uh regardless of you know whether some developer built a wonky line a hundred and a hundred years ago you know um but uh and then the last uh and I I bring this up a lot around so so PWSA is or sorry Pittsburgh water is um unique in its billing um in the way that it does its billing in that the the customer uh the bill does not go if if you are a renter right that the bill is tied to the to the property and that is so that um so that I assume unpaid bills can be sort of turn into liens on the property but what that results in oftentimes is um renters who so I so renters getting evicted because they're not paying their water bill right so with other utilities it's like the bill goes with you.

You know what I mean?

Like if I don't pay my okay so if I don't pay my Duque and light bill maybe they turn off my service and then I leave and I go to a new apartment and they won't turn back on my I mean whatever whatever that but it is the it is the it's the renter's bill.

Oh and but with PWSA it's the property owner's bill right and so um what happens is that people are getting even if they're paying their rent they're getting evicted over their water bill right and um you know we're putting so much money into affordable housing and eviction prevention and all this work that to have people getting evicted over their water bill is um is difficult.

Where if you qualify you get a significantly reduced bill, but those customers aren't able to take advantage of those bills because the landlords don't want the the water bill in the tenant's name because they don't want to deal with this, and I'm not paying all the bill hasn't gotten paid, and that you know what I mean?

So they want to be so what they're doing is the landlord is um the bill's in the landlord's name, and then they're just adding it to the rent, but they're not making that connection between right, so that the you're you're losing the benefit of for for the low-income customer.

So I always just bring that up as something I would I would love for the board to dig into that a little bit and to understand, you know, why PWS why Pittsburgh Water is structures the billing that way and how much revenue is there actually from these property lean right.

I mean, that's the reason, right?

Is that you have a lien on the property, right?

So there's like you can always get get your money in theory, right?

How common is it actually.

Yeah, but how how much money, how much revenue does that actually generate and is it worth and then also just to understand how many um how many folks are getting evicted over the water bill.

That would be a conversation, of course, with like our you know, housing advocates and you know neighborhood legal services and folks who do that work.

Um none of that was really questions, I know, but it was more than a lot of people.

It's very helpful though.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Um okay.

Well thank and so then so then turning to the to the land bank.

Um kind of similar similar questions that we've already had, but like, you know, in terms of like this this concept of sort of community ownership.

And I I I hear what you're saying about pri because the money for the nonprofits feels like it's running out a little bit, right?

Not all of them, but there's certainly like it's it's not quite as it's harder and harder for um, you know, whether it's CDCs or other organizations that are just do to to pull together the financing to you know renovate these homes.

Um and so if and and so the concern is that that work slows down and of course the private sector could step in and do it.

Do you think there is a willingness there to take that on even if there's affordability requirements?

Because our experience or my ex it feels like the experience with the private sector is that they're not really interested in affordability requirements.

Sure.

I guess it depends which players in the private sector you're talking to.

Yeah.

Because there's some that absolutely upfront will say, yeah, I have no interest in doing a project like that.

Then there's other developers who do projects like that across the whole country.

And that's that's their deal.

And that's what they do.

I think identifying those developers, I do have a couple in mind right now would be key.

Um it's really just about finding that right developer.

That's that's what they do.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I mean, uh, you know, I'm I'm interested in in anything that helps with vacant and abandoned properties.

But that would be interesting to see if there are indeed, you know, market, you know, sort of private developers that are open to and of course, you know, working with um our housing authority, I think that is uh for various reasons and you know, and if the that is an underutilized resource, right?

The voucher program.

Sure.

Because you can get your rent, you can get your market rate rent, or at least very close to it if you're accepting those vouchers and working with the housing authority.

And quite frankly, a safe investment for investors.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, all the landlords that didn't get paid over the pandemic, if you were taking vouchers, you were getting paid.

That's right.

So well, good.

I'm glad that you uh recognize that.

Um I I have heard a type.

So with the land bank, uh that there's sometimes this can and always with with CDCs and whatnot, this sort of tension in communities of like small folks who maybe want to do something small with one small piece of land versus like the CDC that has a bigger project in mind and and who you know who gets priority at the land bank, right?

Um I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

Yeah, I think without conflict and controversy, it probably wouldn't be uh a board.

That's that's what it comes with.

Yeah.

And uh with a group like the Pittsburgh Land Bank.

But I guess just my question to your question is like who who would have final say in that conversation, right?

In a neighborhood, somebody wants someone who lives down the block to buy this piece to build a house for their granddaughter or something, or somebody wants to come in and put a wing stop, you know, who who makes that final decision?

You know, who who makes that final decision?

Clearly, one of them will help the community, maybe the other will help the community in a different way.

But I think analyzing the full deals and everything about those deals and those options, and I assume that's something the land bank does would be a critical part of this process.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it is just something to know that it it you know it does come up this sort of you know, the community and I I like the idea of people coming in and and sort of living in the house and and fixing it up at the same time, but that does take a lot of support and also housing co-ops and all of these things.

And the land bank is certainly in a position to help support those those types of endeavors.

Um but yeah, but especially like if it's like, you know, like the small farmer who you know is wants this piece of land for you know, versus a larger development that could arguably you know benefit the community and and how how does that who who gets priority?

So it's good that it's good that you're thinking about that.

Um then I think the the last question is I mean, if you have any idea.

So and I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that in some other cities that the land banks do actually sustain themselves, like they fix up the property.

Is that no, I I just defer to you.

Sort of like how could the how could the land bank sort of become get to a point where it could conceivably sustain itself?

Like it, you know what I mean?

Like maybe even it's the one fixing up the properties and selling the pro like it's the it's the flipper, so to speak.

Sure.

Um yeah, I really don't know the answer to that.

I imagine it would involve a good deal of fundraising from a certain perspective.

But if folks are giving money to people to develop real estate, they expect to have some sort of equity in that real estate.

So yeah, not really sure what the answer to that one is yet.

Okay.

Anyway, just uh I I don't think I have anything else.

Um I appreciate you know both of you being here and thoughtful answers and look forward to working with you more.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um you all pretty much covered what I was going to put on the put on the table, but I will so I'll simply reiterate um when Scott Kunka was here for his interview for the PWS P Pittsburgh Water Board.

Um I also brought up the concern with not just Pittsburgh Water, but all the utilities and the lack of coordination between tearing up, re paving, tearing up, repaving streets, and or the lack of standard for which the utilities repay streets because all over the city you can drive and there'll be places where you're driving and your car is a little tilted because the paving has sunk, and that's almost always utility work that was done.

Um because they either pave a portion of the street and it sinks, they don't pave the entirety of the street.

And so I mentioned to Scott at that time that I had begun conversations about give us the resources, because one I think you're actually paying higher prices to pay than the city does.

Um so if you were to give us a portion of your paving budget, we could then actually coordinate it.

You're good at going in the ground, you're not good at sealing it back up.

Um so that is a conversation that I think there's a good majority of us that would like to continue.

So that's more of a FYI for you.

Um and then for the land bank, Mr.

Eisman.

Um you had mentioned recurring revenue.

Um Councilman Wilson led a task force um looking at ways to have additional revenue.

Um what I've seen um from sustainable land banks across the country is the majority of them have some sort of dedicated funding source that normally comes from the state.

Um as well as some of them have uh dedicated tax not recruitment recipient.

Um, whereby if we take a dare like property, get it back onto the tax rolls, then part of the agreement with the city is since we're adding revenue, we still get a portion of it.

And that gets negotiated out, and maybe we get a portion of it for the next three years that becomes an ongoing revenue stream.

So those are certainly conversations that we look forward, I think also serving the land bank board with my colleague, um, that we look forward to having with you.

Um certainly welcome your input from the private side.

Um so look forward to working with you, and I thank you both for your willingness to serve.

Um with that, I believe we've exhausted the agenda, and so we are adjourned.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.