However, you have to recertify.

And I'm going to have Sue at our meeting to let you know what paperwork you need to recertify.

Um was telling me that by the time our meeting starts, that it should be opened up for people to do that.

Um so is it the is there a federal situation that's controversial right now?

It's it's how I put this.

Um as you notice we even want to meet over here.

Um it's just called the governmental committee.

Right?

There's certain words that we're not using.

So the federal government won't gotta run down our back.

So the federal government does have money that they sent to the PHC.

You know, that's a free certification.

So they have to go through some of the guidelines.

And I've talked to Juan about this too, is we need some kind of local certification.

Will we do you know, maybe the county?

That's what I was thinking too, the county.

That needs to happen.

So in the meantime, we've been sending them to the paid certifications.

We like the bills you have to pay for.

I don't know if you're you're you might be right, Commissioner Siegel.

Uh, the hassle we're sending them to the hurdles, right?

There's new hurles for the PAUCP.

That's purposely done in my opinion.

Yeah.

So racist.

Yeah, it's purposely done.

Um, so we've been we've been suggesting to the folks who really want to get their certification, and we think they should, that they have to go paid round right now.

All right.

I have nothing.

Anybody else have anything to add?

Look at this twelve twenty-eight, you guys.

Yes, nice.

Okay, guys, I just want to let you know next month is gonna be a little longer.

Good morning and welcome to the pre-agenda interview.

Yeah.

For Wednesday, March 25th, 2026 for the Historic Review Commission.

Would a clerk please read the title of the bill.

Bill 233, resolution appointing Helen Sestra as a member of the Historic Review Commission for term to expire January first, 2028.

And for the record, we're currently joined by Councilwoman Strasberger.

Miss Sestra, if you be willing to introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about you.

Yes, absolutely.

Why you're willing to serve on this commission?

And we'll take questions from members.

Okay, great.

Good morning, members of council.

My name is Helen Sestra.

I'm grateful for this opportunity to share my background with you, my perspective, and my deep commitment to Pittsburgh and its neighborhoods.

Its neighborhoods, people, and to its past and future.

Its neighborhoods are defined not only by their people, but an architectural legacy that is both diverse and deeply expressive of the city's history.

From grand historic residences to modest homes that quietly anchor generations of families, our built environment tells a story that deserves thoughtful stewardship, protecting that legacy while ensuring that neighborhoods can evolve, thrive, and serve current and future residents is something I feel very strongly about.

Actually, the home where they lived, according to a book called Pittsburgh, a New Portrait, is one of the oldest in Shady Side.

I'm a third generation owner and really steward of the company and its legacy.

We honor our history and our culture at the company every day, and we work off of the way my grandfather modeled the company and have preserved our history while growing substantially.

Most recently, Family House underwent a complex consolidation of properties, including residences on McKee Place and Neville in Oakland.

And we purchased a formal hotel on Center Avenue.

The process reinforced the importance of preservation and thoughtful reuse and serving community needs.

Additionally, I'm a newly appointed board member of Hoping Knights, formerly Girls Hope, which is preparing for the development of a new campus in Garfield.

This project will expand vital resources for scholars while thoughtfully integrating into an existing neighborhood, demonstrating the meaningful growth and respect for context can coexist.

At the heart of my work in real estate is bringing people to Pittsburgh, inviting them to invest in its neighborhoods.

I've grown up here.

But I'm here to tell you that you don't.

The city has a way of showing you new and unique characteristics, end quote.

I think in much the same way, our historic buildings, just as our neighborhoods may have new stories to tell.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much.

With that, I'll turn it over to our council member for questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you, Miss Estra, for being here today.

And thank you for taking on another um essentially a board role in this in this um historic review commission nomination.

I know that the decisions that will come before you will be specific and they will be narrow decisions that you make.

So but I'd like to ask you a little bit about your worldview when it comes to that balance between historic preservation and what makes Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, right?

Honoring history, and allowing for change and growth in the city that we so desperately need to be able to have housing for everyone in all neighborhoods, right?

Um so maybe even just whatever experience you'd like to, but even in you know, the Lawrenceville example is so I think salient right now because we have seen tremendous change in Lawrenceville through the time that you were on Lawrenceville.

You said Lawrenceville United or Lawrenceville Corp.

Lawrenceville Corp.

Lawrenceville Corp.

And they now merged, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lawrenceville Corp.

Um, you know, tremendous change over the last 10, 15 years, and um, you know, there has been new housing developed, there has been a change in um uh um the the main stream.

Um how do you think that Lawrenceville's done?

Yeah, in in kind of that balance between historic preservation.

And I can definitely speak to that, you know, because I did work there for a few years, and I actually think it's interesting at our company that is one of our newest offices, and that is office was put in there really as a hub for new construction and new technology in real estate.

So while we are an you know a company that was founded in Pittsburgh in the 50s, we did want to be in Lawrenceville as as that presence.

So, you know, we kind of as a company emerged that that old world Pittsburgh into the new world Lawrenceville, and I think we did that really well.

And I think with the rest of Lawrenceville, I I personally think it was handled very well.

I think Lawrenceville is a strong neighborhood that saw that growth.

It's a desirable neighborhood where people want to live and work and people want to visit.

I live in Shady Side, but I go into Lawrenceville a lot to go to dinner and go out and see friends.

So I think Lawrenceville did a tremendous job with revitalizing the community, and a lot of it there has to do with the amount of housing stock that was there, the opportunity in the retail space on the commercial street.

Having both of those opportunities really, you know, created that growth.

Um is there um a particular I don't know if you have had the opportunity to meet or to understand or know who all of the other new and existing kind of um members of the commission will be, but um not quite yet.

Yeah, okay.

Um that's okay.

I think you can still answer this.

What do you think?

Uh you've given us, you know, your vast experience.

What do you think you bring that might be a little bit different?

And I do know there are there's an architect.

I think you know, my level of understanding the architect.

I heard the librarian speak, which was fantastic to hear her side of things and you know, preservation of the rare books.

For me, it really is that real estate side.

It is being with people every day in the city, in its neighborhood, touring homes, understanding how inspections work, how properties need to be maintained, what it takes to get bids on properties, whether they are historic or not.

So I mean, I really have that unique perspective.

I'm in homes with Pittsburgh City residents every day, hearing what they're saying.

Part of my job is also bringing people to Pittsburgh and you know, wanting them to stay in Pittsburgh to to work here, to raise their families here.

So I think I have that unique perspective being with the people of Pittsburgh every day in the properties.

That's helpful.

Um I don't have any additional questions.

I think that's my questions.

Thank you for your willingness to serve and for being here today.

Thank you.

Councilman Sharlin.

I know you just sat down, but I was watching online up until I started talking to the commander.

Um thank you for being here today.

Uh I I just have you know, this is our opportunity to talk to you before you serve on on the commission.

I represent South Side, um, the Southside Historic District specifically, which cause you know has a lot of issues that come in front of you.

Um I wanted you to talk about the balance between historic preservation and keeping businesses full.

Um so we've had I I've got two examples that are very front of mind where we've got a thriving business that was asked to put in new windows, and now they're gonna leave South Side because the windows they put in that they needed to put in don't match the the historic guidelines.

Um I also have another business that was literally a gas station, not contributing to the district, and uh viable business wanted to come in and were told that what they wanted to do was not going to contribute to the business or the historic district.

Again, this is a gas station, not a Victorian uh building by any means.

And the uh you know, so the building remains vacant right now.

So I want to talk a little bit about how or I wanted to hear from you about the importance of me making sure that our historic guidelines are something that are still economically viable.

Yes, absolutely.

Um speaking of the South Side in the historic district, we actually have a we own a building in Bedford Square, it was one of our offices for a long time.

We have held on to that, and we've actually we created a new company and we put it into that office.

So I want you to know that that is an important area for me, and we didn't sell the building, we kept it and we created a company and we wanted to make sure it went there.

So I one of my biggest goals in that scenario of what it was a restaurant, did you say would be making sure they don't leave.

So doing what we have to do to make sure they don't leave.

Maybe it is some sort of exemption or time frame that they need to get the windows in order or figuring out what can be done for them if the windows are what it is that is going to make them leave, maybe finding out if it's something else.

But I would my biggest goal, and I can't speak to exactly how it would be done.

Yeah, I but it would be making sure that they stay and figuring out what really is the requirement for the windows and how can we get them there.

If it's the funding that's an issue, I imagine that's what it is that they maybe don't have the funds to meet the specific criteria that the windows need, it would be figuring out some some you know supplemental funding for them or trying to discover and navigate that for them.

But the goal would be to make sure that they don't leave and getting that done.

So one of the other people that came up to speak uh, one of the other nominees for Historic Review Commission kind of said the same thing is like, let's go after grants for them.

But grants are finite.

So we only have you know a certain amount of facade money that we can spend on all the storefronts, and the fact that we're having to spend some of our finite money on restoring the storefront where there's other storefronts that aren't in historic districts that also need this money.

Now that now because we've created this essentially artificial requirement.

Maybe it's looking at that requirement again.

You know, if a business is gonna leave because of that requirement, others will as well.

So maybe it's really going through and looking at it.

Well, it won't come in in the first place.

Yeah.

So maybe it's actually top down and has to be reviewed again to see, you know, is this criteria serving the needs of the people and the businesses in the community?

Yeah.

Okay.

I I just, you know, I I I want to make sure that this will, you know, this is our opportunity to to say something to you about that, and I just want to make sure that's something that's that you're aware of as you serve on the commission.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Um I'll follow up on Councilman Sharlin's sort of questioning.

One of the things I think we as a body have struggled with over the years is Pennsylvania is is a very strong property rights state.

How do you balance a nomination of a structure or a home?

You're a realtor that someone nominates as historic, but the owner doesn't want to be designated as historic.

Yes.

Well, you know, as being a new committee member, I'd have to understand what defines the historic building and try to understand that.

I think the most recent example we had before us was I think Donnie's place actually.

Um by because of the activity that took place at the bar slash restaurant, um, people viewed it as historic and from mean respects, it probably was.

But from an architectural from a building perspective, it necessarily wasn't.

Good morning and welcome to the standing committees meeting for Wednesday, March 25th, 2026.

All council meetings will be live streamed on the city's website, and for guest speakers, please do not turn off your microphones.

Our first order of business is roll call.

Was it clear, please take the role?

Mr.

Charlotte.

Miss Gross.

Mr.

Lavelle.

Mr.

Mosley.

Here.

Miss Stella Metro.

Here.

Mrs.

Warwick.

Mr.

Wilson.

Miss Strasberger Chair.

Here.

Five members present.

Thank you.

Our next order of business is public comment.

I would like to remind all speakers that the rules of council state that comments are limited to matters of concern, official action, or deliberation, which are or may be before city council.

Profanity will not be permitted.

Please state your name and neighborhood for the record.

You will have three minutes to speak.

Like Mayor Ravens all did.

Rachel Heisler had the audacity to champion this investigation.

But I'm not surprised.

The city needs to be put, needs to put itself on punishment until it gets his affairs in order.

And again, you being treated and made like animals.

Simply put Pick Tok has a problem.

And now a spotlight will be on this city in approximately 30 days, and you won't be able to build a wall or contain the problem you all have systematically ignored.

Now you're inviting company to the city to be a witness to the mess that you're trying to hurry up and sweep under the road by towing cars, knocking down housing, and a citywide effort.

Thank you.

There being no further registered speakers.

We will now take comments from those in the audience wishing to speak.

Good morning.

My name is Yvonne F.

Brown.

I live at 715 Mercer Street.

That's the high rise up on Baffert.

I come today to talk to the president.

Mr.

Lavelle, I have a message that was sent down to you by Gloria Jones.

Her son used to be the union rep that died.

I know you know Miss Jones.

She's been living up in K Lee Earl's.

I think it might be since it was there.

She told me to come to tell you in the whole city of Pittsburgh to get ready to cut the 81A.

We got 81A, the 83, and then we got to Bedford.

We got three buses.

But those buses don't really connect like they should in the first place.

Some older people have to walk a couple blocks to get to different buses.

But they're getting ready to cut the one Befford.

I mean, cut the 81A.

She told me to come and tell you directly.

And so all the citizens will know that we've been fighting for years.

I live in KD Earth's.

You won't even give us a bus to take us down to the bottom of the hill to the hospital.

They're fighting for years for that.

All we ask is that you get us some kind of way, even if it was the um uh uh not a bus, but a little shuttle.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Also, I want you, the whole city to listen to what the bus driver told me.

Now, coming down, I usually walk, but I caught the bus.

The bus driver is 3119.

That's how kind this bus driver was.

I asked for his number.

But you need to understand this little side street where you have the buses, the light changes in 20 something seconds.

So the buses can't get through.

We're we're causing the problem.

If you don't change them lights, you should have somebody check right there at the court.

It says diamond, and I think this is fourth.

Right here at City Council, the building, right on the corner.

Twenty seconds, the the that's for the buses and transportation to move.

Please call and talk to the bus drivers.

They're the ones who are using the streets and they can tell you which streets are which.

Please, because we're we're we're we're in a uh bad situation.

A lot of people have to walk to get to the different buses up in our area.

Now you're getting ready to take it, and we're gonna have to walk in even further.

I don't mind walking.

Since I had my stroke, I try to walk as much as I can to try to get the use of my whole body again.

But for the elders, please consider the elders in our building.

We have so many that are in wheelchairs and walkers.

Thank you.

Have a nice day.

Thank you.

Next speaker, please.

I'm not here to only speak.

I'm here to teach y'all.

Since y'all haven't learned what y'all said y'all were going to do.

So, Bobby, I don't think he's here, I guess.

You said quality of life.

So who's life?

Because our neighborhoods look like they got put on airplane mode.

Kim.

You said be responsive.

Well, I still have yet to hear a response.

Bob, you said, clean up blights.

Can you take a walk with me through our neighborhoods and see all the abandoned houses?

Because they're not getting any better.

Anthony, missing as always.

You said public safety and basic service matters.

Drive down our streets and see if the potholes and the uneven speed bumps are considered safe for the public.

It's like an obstacle horse.

Bart, you focus on infrastructure.

So please explain why it looks like our neighborhoods.

It was done with your eyes closed.

Daniel, you talk about equity.

But equity isn't just a word, it's a result.

And as a black man from my neighborhood, the Hill District.

Like, where's the results?

Deb.

You talk about systems and how the city runs.

I'm telling you, the system isn't running right.

When are you gonna step up?

Erica.

And you talk about development and improving the city.

So why does improvement seem to stop right before it gets to us?

I can't pronounce your first name, so I'm not gonna say it, but Mosley, because none of y'all are miss or miss thers to me, and so y'all can step up.

But you talk about community investment.

You just had a party up there in Penn Hills.

I know you had to wrap through the worst communities.

That's you know, is you investing or are you just observing?

The potholes are growing and multiplying deep enough to qualify as public pools in our area.

Welcome, Stu.

Late as always.

But um, it just don't make sense.

I just want to know when y'all gonna stand up and actually do just little one thing, one thing that y'all said y'all gonna do.

Except for you, because you really did what you said you was gonna do, but you messed the city up.

And you know you did.

Have a good day, y'all.

Next speaker, please.

Cerese Taylor, the missing child, special agent sunshine.

Lord, thank you for divine intervention in this FBI identity theft fraud investigation.

Thank you to every government official, bringing the corrupt ones to justice, and now seeing the 100 trillion watt light shining on everybody involved in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Psalm 10105 says, for the Lord is good, his love endures forever.

His faithfulness continues through all generations.

2 Peter 19 says, and we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place like this place right here, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

The wisdom for today comes from Proverbs 1530.

It says, a friendly smile makes you happy, and good news makes you feel strong.

Good news coming, I promise you.

The praise song for today comes from Tamil Man.

God provides, because he does, with no money, no job, no bank account, no credit cards, and no phone.

This is how God provides for the homeless.

Look at it, real good.

Look at it.

Yeah, look at it, Mosley.

Because you're not providing.

You are really, really part of this rod investigation, a big part.

And I'm so glad the light is shining on your roots organization.

Who is stealing my mail?

And whoever knows, who knows whoever else's mail they're stealing.

But Congress, please hear me when I tell you.

Back in the day, I know y'all remember.

Hands were removed for stealing.

We're going back to that in Jesus' name, Mosley.

The safe step for everybody this week, month, year, however, is to make a family tree.

Reflect on ways your ancestors led you to know Jesus' love for you.

I have one.

It's of my grandmother, my mother, myself, my daughter, and my grandbaby.

That's what five generations?

It's amazing.

It was in the apartment I left in Atlanta, fully furnished of seven years, a one-bedroom, section eight unit.

I left everything in.

I left my six-month job at Walmart as well.

And chose the Lord and justice in this fraud.

I didn't need that.

Investigation.

There's also computer front, insurance fraud.

Y'all kill people for money.

Y'all have rituals every moon cycle.

Somebody gotta die.

Really?

Still coming for me?

Here I still stand on his promises to supply me with all of my needs through his riches and glory in Christ in Jesus' name.

I call all my energy back to me, and everything stolen from me, known and unknown.

I return to me in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Thank you, next speaker, please.

Hello, good morning.

My name is Heather Marisini, and I'm standing here today as a mother who is exhausted, scared, and honestly breaking.

I have a two-year-old son.

He is innocent in all this.

He doesn't understand any of this, and I'm hoping he doesn't remember.

I'm hoping.

He just knows that we don't have a home, that we keep moving, and that his mom is trying her best not to fall apart.

Every night I have to fold my child and not have an answer to the question I asked myself over and over where are we going to go?

I left a domestic violence relationship to save my life and protect my son.

That alone took everything in me.

And when I finally asked for help, I was told there was nowhere for us to go.

Nowhere.

So I searched on my own, and I ended up in a shelter that wasn't meant for families.

Then finally we were at the overflow hotel.

Until our room would finally be available to us.

So while I was there, I told my caseworker exactly what I needed.

I explained I needed to be in a specific area because my other children are there, because my job was there and ready to go to take me back.

Because that's where my only support system is.

But instead of being heard, I was given options in places where I knew no one, where I would be completely alone.

Then I was moved again to a shelter that doesn't even offer domestic violence services.

I did everything I was told to do.

I followed every rule, I trusted the process.

I believed I had housing.

And I did I did find a place, and I spoke to the landlord, and for the first time in so long, I had hope.

I thought my son was finally gonna have a home, and then it was all taken away from me.

I was told it was okay to leave the shoulder and stay with my mom until moving because I wasn't okay mentally there.

Then days later I was told if I don't go back, I will lose everything.

So I went back and I was handed a letter saying I was denied housing because they didn't have all my information.

How does a mother do everything right and still end up with nothing?

I am tired of crying in silence, so I doesn't my son doesn't see me for I am tired of the system that tells women to leave abuse, but doesn't protect them when they do because leaving wasn't the hardest part.

This is my son deserves better home.

He deserves stability, and I am doing everything I can, but I can't do this alone.

Please don't just hear me help me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any further speakers?

Any further speakers?

We will now move on to our standing committee's agenda.

And we do not have anything in our first committee, so we'll move to invoices.

Is there a motion on invoices?

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none.

All those in favor of invoices, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Invoices are approved.

Is there a motion on P cards?

So moved.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of P cards, please say aye.

Aye.

P cards are approved.

That takes us to the public safety and wellness committee chaired by Councilman Cockhill.

Bill 252.

Resolution authorizing the mayor and the director of public safety to enter on behalf of the city of Pittsburgh into an agreement or agreements with North Star Leadership LLC for police supervisor development and training at a total cost not to exceed $20,000 over one year.

Motion to approve brief discussion.

Second.

Okay.

I see uh Commander Abraham and Baker are here.

Would you uh join us in uh just explain what the program is?

Commander.

Any chairman.

Sorry, this is my first time.

You want to join us to you, Commander Baker.

So thanks for the work you do.

Just introduce yourselves and just tell us a little bit about what the program's about.

Yeah, good morning.

Uh you might have a question.

My name is uh Jeff Abraham.

I'm the commander of Zone 3.

Uh so in 2024, we went to Indianapolis, Indiana to see the Indianapolis Metro Police's leadership academy.

Uh the same instructors that have been doing their leadership academy there for the past 16 years uh are coming to Pittsburgh to teach our new supervisors and current supervisors uh different leadership techniques um for them to be better suited for uh our department.

So so they um you saw them train Indianapolis police officers, and you thought it would be beneficial for Pittsburgh, and they're coming to Pittsburgh and getting help.

Yes, that's correct.

We are actually in a leadership academy right now.

This is the second one that we have sent through.

Um they're currently here uh and doing it.

So what part of their uh training is is um they teach uh real real world scenarios uh that that uh supervisors in the PVP go through on a day-to-day basis and give them better navigation on how to deal with those situations.

Um I I don't really have any questions.

If you feel it's beneficial, it's it's okay by me.

So uh I just want to thank you both for for your service and you know, thank you for always being responsive to me.

Yes, sir.

Zone three.

Thank you.

Okay.

That's it for me, madam chair.

Thank you, Councilman Mosley.

Yeah.

I want to thank you uh both for for being here.

I'll I'm just just out of curiosity, you know, what specifically um is in this training program that really stuck out and when it was observed in the past made you feel like this is something we want to implement in the city of Pittsburgh.

Yeah, so uh when we did the sergeants assessments in 2024, uh it was uh we bring in assessors from all over the country from different departments from LAPD, Nashville, Prince George's County, um anywhere that you could think of uh major cities, and the biggest thing that they told us is that we have a leadership issue here.

Um a uh gentleman from Indianapolis uh pulled me aside and said that we have uh this training that is very police specific.

Uh so the first week of our training is we go through leadership theories, we we talk about doing the right thing by our officers.

Um we talk about management, risk management.

The second week is teaching to something that we could that Indianapolis uh calls the Q6.

And it is pretty much a blueprint on okay, you have uh high performing police officers, how do you keep them motivated?

How do you keep them going in the right direction all the way down to your toxic employees?

How do you get them on the right path?

And then you go through 16 to 18 different scenarios throughout the week of um dealing with an officer that has been in a uh uh going through cancer uh that has an alcohol issue that uh was the subject to uh uh uh uh situation where they were in the media a lot.

They they go through all of these situations on how to deal with that with those officers.

So it's a little bit more specific than some of the other leadership trainings that are out there that just simply teach leadership, this teaches it to a real world situation.

Like me speaking on my experience is all the scenarios that they have gone through I've gone through as a supervisor with the PPP.

And and when they said there was a leadership issue, were like things that they spoke to specifically that they thought were leadership issues within the department.

Yeah, so and it's something that uh we see at the command level as well is uh a lot of uh passing the buck.

So you you get a street suit uh uh supervisor uh that has a situation that they could deal with themselves, they instead pass it up to their lieutenant.

Their lieutenant then passes up their commander and so on and so forth.

What this does is it teaches them to address the issues right then and there.

I believe that exhausts my question.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for sharing the information.

Thank you.

Councilmember Warwick.

Um yeah, so I I just have a quick it's not directly related to this, but since we're talking about training and and so what what what are your role can you remind me of your roles again?

I'm the commander of zone three.

Of zone three, and I am the commander of special deployment.

Okay, so so neither of you are necessarily directly involved in the training.

I I am yes, so the leadership academy here was founded by myself and another Lieutenant uh Tony Cunningham.

Got it.

Okay, okay.

So the thing that I want to ask about, just because um we've, you know, is um the use of uh pepper spray.

Um and I you may not have answers, but you're here, so I'm gonna ask.

Um so you know, we saw re so we saw recently in West Mifflin, obviously not Pittsburgh, right?

We saw like a crowd of people, you know, protesting like some traffic safety, you know what I mean?

It was a a misunderstanding that ended in pepper spray being used on little kids, young kids, right?

Um and uh obviously there was the incident in uh downtown recently in Market Square where I think there were like 20 kids.

Now my understanding is some of the kids maybe had pepper spray, but then also the officers use pepper spray.

Um I know for myself, like I don't like when I think of pepper spray back when I was in my twenties, it was like this thing, I mean, you know, some women would maybe have it on their keychain in case they were like attacked in the park or something like that, but it really was kind of like this this I don't know, it just seemed like something that we was was not being used all the time.

And now, of course, and I've you know I've I mentioned this at another council meeting, you know, with ice going around, you know, where the our federal officers going around just all and you see it like video after video after video of literally pepper spraying people directly in the face, right?

And it's you know, generally you you recover from from being sprayed with pepper, but sometimes you don't, right?

It can actually cause permanent damage to to the eyes.

And so I wanted to ask just with the use of pepper spray, what what can you tell us?

Because to me it feels like something that we really should be not using unless we absolutely have to.

And certainly on kids, I mean, I have 14-year-old, you know, I have a k you know, kid who's kid's about to turn 14, and I would be very upset.

Even if things even if things were chaotic and out of control, if if they were pepper sprayed.

And uh so I just wanted to ask about how we're using it and what the guidelines are, and can we dial it down a little with the I mean, anyway, I'll let you respond.

So I I don't have the uh the year-to-date numbers of how many times that's uh to pre present for you today about how many times our officers have used or uh pepper aerosol spray.

Uh what I can say is we have a general order governing its use uh that's published online uh for everyone to take a look at.

Uh we a couple years ago moved away from a from a brand uh that has a chemical compound that it's less of a spray, it's it's more of a it's more of an adherent.

So it it it it it it affects less of a crowd and more of the person that you were trying to, you know, otherwise use it on.

Uh so like all force options, uh when our officers use force, our expectation is it is reasonable under the totality of the circumstances and is in compliance with our other policies and the laws of Pennsylvania.

So uh to say, you know when you can, when you cannot, is is generally governed by case law policies in place, et cetera.

Uh usually like the instances you're talking about where people have been injured, that we there are guidelines and we train our officers that they have to maintain a certain distance uh, you know, before they can safely use it.

Uh there was a thing in the past where there was if you were too close and you deployed it, it would create a hydraulic needle.

Uh so that is a thing that we are aware of in the profession, and that we do train our officers to have the appropriate safe minimum distance before deploying it.

Okay.

Oops.

I'm I'm just worried that we're sort of it's it's becoming more right that it I I'm worried about it as a tool that's just sort of becoming like a quick go-to.

You know.

Um I don't I don't know.

Um again from the media reports, right?

Because that's all they have.

They were 20 people treated after the market square incident for you know because of pepper spray in the eyes, presumably.

Um that just seems like a lot of people, and that doesn't seem like precision.

I uh again, I I know it was a chaotic situation.

Um I I can't speak to that incident because I I'm not the commander there.

Um, but we we do not indiscriminately spray people.

So if there was uh uh from my recollection of that, I believe that there were people in the crowd that had pepper spray as well.

So they're being treated for that.

So um what I could tell you for the the South side is a very uh uh uh it's a safer tool to break up fights than it is for officers to go hands-on or to officers to deploy their tasers, which there's definitely uh a lot more injury that goes along with tasing people than there is of just pepper spraying people.

Um it it does give people uh to disperse rather quickly as opposed to going hands-on with them causing injuries on both sides.

So it it is a very effective tool for us.

Okay.

Well anyway, I just it would be you know, maybe it's a conversation too with with Chief Leando to just I just have concerns because of the use of pepper spray that we've seen.

I mean, I I'm sure you've seen videos of of ICE officers directly pepper spraying people in the face, and it's just sort of the more you see it, the more it becomes normalized, and that's that's the concern.

That's it's that for our officers that you know that that that is maintained that that you know, just because you're seeing this done like you know, out in the world by other law enforcement agencies, like at you know, these are the these are the rules around using it here in Pittsburgh, if that could just be reiterated.

Yeah, I mean we train to a standard here.

Uh we have we have a very high standard for when we use force, and uh all of our officers are trained in any of the tools on their belt and how to use them and when to use them.

And um I mean, speaking from the zone three side of it, um I have not seen in uh maybe outside of maybe one or two outliers that pepper spray was was used appropriately in that situation.

Generally the the the past over the past few years, I know that we have seen is a training note.

Uh usually that's one of the la uh the least employed tools on our officers' bells speaking only for Pittsburgh for the reasons you kind of you know touched upon, which is that you know, especially with the older formulas, if you were to spray, uh, you know, I have I I'm sure Jeff's been in the same situation.

I've probably been maced by more police than whoever was supposed to be, right?

So that's usually what happens is you know the the chemical gets deployed and then everyone is infected, right, to some varying levels of degree.

So usually it it tended to be uh one of our fewest deployed force options.

Okay.

Well, I just wanted to bring it up and ask.

So that's all.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Councilperson Sharlin.

Yes.

Uh so back to the leadership uh the program we're working here.

You said supervisors, are we saying sergeants and lieutenants commit do commanders go through that?

Uh no.

No, the commanders go to uh uh it's all elective that they can go to any training they want.

I'd be more than willing to train our command staff as well in this in this uh put them through this leadership academy.

Have you seen you know uh a market difference between folks that have been through the academy and and not uh am I using that right academy?

Yeah.

Uh PVP leadership academy.

Leadership academy, yeah.

We we have.

So the first class we put through was 15.

Uh this class is 24, and we're also training county police as well as Duquesne University as well, uh putting them through the this class as well.

Uh so we have seen it.

Uh, you know, we have what 200 supervisors in our department.

So we've put through a very small fraction of our of our supervisors through this training.

Uh it's it's going to take a while to rebuild the that culture of what we're looking for in leadership here.

So um if if we stop doing this now, that's just gonna put us back behind again.

Uh we we need to keep building and keep putting people through.

Our intentions are is to put another class on sometime in summer as well.

Are um are the I'm using this word loosely, but the officers are they appreciative of going through the academy?

Do they they see it as beneficial to them?

Yeah, we we have had uh pretty good feedback.

Uh uh this last one we got 4.2 stars out of five through just our uh what do you call those the survey?

Service that's our customer satisfaction service.

So we we got 4.2 stars out of five.

So if that was a restaurant, I'd go to it.

Uh good.

And you know, uh it is something that we've always heard of is you know, we uh have the problems with recruitment.

We also have the problems with um uh leadership and and kind of the clusters that have happened.

Uh so my hope is that this is a tool that we can use to help rebuild that bench of uh what when you guys eventually do move on, um, you know, who who comes up next.

Yeah, and and and to your point, um uh through research for this academy, uh uh it's found that pay is maybe three on the list of where why people leave uh police departments and typically number one is the people that they work for.

Uh so we're trying to strengthen that and it's also a good retention tool as well, and it gives a pathway.

So Eric and I came through the ranks.

Um we we never had any sort of training like this.

We had a two-week training at our academy, um which was well done, but it was too short and it didn't give you real life scenarios that this this is giving you.

So I I think it would be also a very beneficial tool for us for retention as well.

Right.

Well, uh you know, you're you're a heck of a leader, so uh I'm I'm sure the officers uh appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

For their discussion.

Second round, Councilman Cockhelm.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh just real quick.

You had mentioned Duquesne and County.

Allegheny County Police.

Yes.

Do they is it free to them or is it?

It is free to what do you do the training at?

Is it facility?

The training is done uh Eric was kind enough kind enough to give us the uh SDD building for us to conduct our training there.

Yes, but Stanford.

I hope broker that deal.

That's good.

Yeah, it's good space.

It's great space.

As long as it doesn't flood, but uh yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's all for me.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Any further discussion?

Uh my only question is I see a waiver competitive process.

Um why why was there not a competitive process for the bed?

The this is a very unique training that they're the only people that actually teach.

It's called the Q6.

They're the one of the only people in the country that teach that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Further discussion?

Councilwoman Gross.

Thank you.

Um I didn't have any questions, but I just I did just catch the part that we are being asked to pay.

Maybe I um just want to make sure I didn't miss here.

Are we paying for the county police to get training?

Are you asking us to pay for the county police to get training?

No.

You said it was free for is it free for us and free for county police?

They are uh I I would make the assumption that they're being paid by the county to attend our training.

We are just offering them the training to come to.

How much is it cost?

So we're we're training it's in-house.

But like, you know, how much does it cost in our time and payroll and space and all that kind of stuff?

And then like how many is it like one county police person or five there.

There's five, and then it's a room of how many people?

Twenty-four.

Okay.

I just, you know, we're always very sensitive about large S when it comes to the county, right?

A lot of times we feel like we they should be paying you know, we should be getting more services in the in the city than we do, you know, and we don't want the county to pretend that like somehow inside the city of Pittsburgh, it's not also inside Allegheny County, right?

And so we're always very sensitive that you know we're sometimes feel like we're covering costs that the county should be covering.

So um we don't need to act like we have a bigger budget than they have a much, much, much, much, much bigger budget than we have.

So uh we're in the infancy of this.

This has only been uh our second leadership academy.

Uh Indianapolis has a fund setup, and they teach not only Indianapolis Metro folks, but they also teach uh local suburbs, their state police comes to this, Indiana University comes to this.

But they have a fund set up where each person pays to get into it.

We just we are trying to build the brand first before we can start making it become profitable for for the the city, but that that is a thought process that we do have.

Okay, you just are not there yet.

So we're trying to get the word out, I guess, and it's uh and the kind of preach how great this is to kind of get people to want to come to this and then get to a certain point where we could make it profitable for the department and for the city.

And that's good news.

That's good news.

I mean, at this, you know, we wish that like you know, swimming pool tags were cheaper and you know shelter rentals and the parks were cheaper, and you know, we're here, we feel like we're nickel and diamond uh residents um sometimes and too much.

So you know, I'm happy to support today, but I would look forward to to um the other municipalities and certainly the county covering their own costs.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

Any further discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 252, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Thank you both very much.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you.

Bill two fifty three.

Resolution authorizing the Citizens Police Review Board to enter into an agreement or contracts with attorney Alec B.

Wright of O'Brien Coleman and Wright LLC for professional services to assist in the legal representation of the Citizens Police Review Board for a period of three years.

Said agreement or contract shall not exceed 45,000 dollars per year for 2026, 2027, and 2028, subject to the annual allocation by city council.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Discussion.

Council President.

I should have the same question that you had for the previous one.

Why was there a waiver of competitor process for a lawyer?

Interrogatory, yeah.

Okay.

Uh I did uh I see Ms.

Pittinger's on the on the online too.

But um, from what I understand, this was the same attorney that they've been using, and they just wanted to extend the contract because uh they're happy with his services and um you know, so this was just an extension, I guess.

It wasn't uh out to bid necessarily.

But you know, uh Ms.

Pittinger's on online if I want to join.

I am thank you.

If you have any questions, counselors on that's why I'm here as background.

You you're probably all aware that the board is authorized to hire its own solicitor, and they have hired their own solicitors since they were since 1998.

Um this is a continuation of that tradition.

The contract under which Mr.

Wright was serving as solicitor expired at the end of December.

And the board has chosen to continue uh with uh Mr.

Wright as their solicitor.

And as a result, we needed a new contract.

Um it's not something that they were comfortable with, nor would I I can't imagine anybody would come be comfortable with you going out to bid for your legal services when you're comfortable with the lawyer that you have.

So that's essentially the background.

Thank you.

From what I understand, it's paid out of um CPRB's budget, so it's not new money here.

And that amount has not changed since 1999.

Will it change in the foreseeable future?

Thank you.

Further discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 253, please say aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Thank you, Mr.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

That moves us to Public Works and Infrastructure Committee chaired by Councilwoman Salonetro.

Bill 258 resolution authorizing the mayor and the director of the Department of Mobility and Infrastructure on behalf of the City of Pittsburgh to enter into a supplemental agreement or agreements with CDR McGuire Inc.

for project design management services and reviews in connection with various City of Pittsburgh projects to add funding for the preliminary engineering phase, increasing the total not to exceed amount to three million nine hundred thousand, four hundred and sixty-three dollars and nineteen cent, an increase of one hundred and twenty-one thousand eight hundred sixty-one dollars and ninety-nine cent, reimbursable at various rates.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 258, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation, Bill 259.

Resolution authorizing the mayor and the director of the Department of Mobility and Infrastructure on behalf of the City of Pittsburgh to enter into a supplemental agreement or agreements with Trans Associates Engineering Consultants Inc.

for services during construction for the Penn Avenue Phase 2 reconstruction project at a cost thereof not to exceed $1,743,35 and 56 cent, an increase of 178,939.11 cent from the previously executed agreement reimbursable at 80%.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 259, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Bill 260.

Resolution authorizing the taking, appropriating and condemning by the city of Pittsburgh of certain easements necessary for the completion of repair in support of and over terrace in a fifth ward for public transportation purposes through imminent domain and further authorizing the payment of just compensation and necessary and incidental acquisition costs related thereto and an amount not to exceed $35,000.

Motion to approve.

Discussion.

Second.

Second.

With discussion, Councilwoman Salonetro.

Is there somebody here that can speak to this?

Hello, Eric Setler, Chief Engineer with Delmy.

Can you just give us a little bit of background as to why we are taking appropriating and condemning this property?

Just give me a little background on it.

Sure.

So uh this landslide several years ago.

Okay.

And um we've done some temporary remediation work, but we are still trying to work on the uh a permanent fix.

Uh basically uh retaining wall adjacent to Andover Terrace failed, went down the slope, took out the road.

Below that, there are several houses down below that um that were impacted in their backyards.

Um we've been working with the various property owners over the course of the project.

We have secured some temporary easements for some of the phases that we've already completed to be on their property.

Um with uh two of the property owners, we just had trouble for this next phase.

We've just uh we tried to negotiate some easements and we just came to an in pass, unfortunately.

Um so the we're using eminent domain taking to take a temporary access easement to allow us to be in their backyard for design purposes, and then there will be a permanent easement.

Um the retaining wall will be in the Andover Terrace right-of-way, but we're asking for or taking a about a ten-foot wide easement just in the future to allow us to get down there and maintain the wall.

Um so we're not actually taking property and converting it to right-of-way, we're taking easements from the property.

Um to the two property owners.

Yeah, and that that's based on um uh what's the word I'm looking for?

We had to get uh evaluations for the value of the easements.

Appraisal, there you go.

That's always all for me.

Thank you.

Further discussion.

Councilwoman Gross.

Thank you, and I apologize in advance because I rarely do this, but I am going to have to say that we need to follow up on the giant retaining wall on between El Paso and Dufffield that is still redirecting water to the neighboring homes that are outside of the footprint of the uh retaining wall and a um a kind of note to my colleagues when you if you have a giant retaining wall holding up a landslide that to really it doesn't mean that the people at the bottom of the elevation are never gonna have you know it won't necessarily solve their water issues, right?

So I know we have been following up with Domey repeatedly, so I'm gonna have to just say I just needed to say on the record this has been going on now for more than a year, and these people really need recourse.

They're their own infrastructure is collapsing in their own backyards.

So we need a solution for the water that's coming down off of the elevation from between Stanton Heights and Morningside.

Yeah, I'm aware of the situation, of course, and um we are looking into it some more and trying to figure out what we can do.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

I'll be following up very soon.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I apologize.

Thank you.

Any further discussion?

I have to ask, were you part of the project that won the geotechnical project of a year from the Engineer Society?

I was, yes.

Congratulations.

We saw the press release.

It's very exciting, thanks to it's like a huge team of people that were part of the Mount Washington landslides landside project.

It was.

It was it was uh a large team that helped get the work done.

Um and um we were able to do a lot of good work around Mount Washington in Councilman's cell and trust district for the most part, I think.

And um yeah, you can see it.

It looks good, I think.

Well, congratulations.

Thank you.

Now on to the next landslide.

That's right.

As we're speaking about it.

So okay, any further discussion.

Seeing none, all those all in favor of bill two sixty, please say aye.

Aye.

One abstention, so noted.

Um affirmative recommendation.

Thank you very much.

Bill 261.

Ordnance amending ordinance 223 of 1911 in order to grant the city's Department of Mobility and Infrastructure limited authority to permit installation of overhead wires or poles on certain portions of Kinsman Road and on Worth Street, located in the 14th ward city of Pittsburgh.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Uh I'd like to ask for one person to make a voice amendment just to change the spelling of Kinsman to M A N.

Um, just for our records.

Motion to amend.

Second.

Um, Madam Clerk, will you change the spelling of Kinsman Road to K-I-N-S-M-A-N?

Yes.

Thank you.

All in favor of the voice amendment, please say aye.

Aye.

Bill has been amended.

Any further discussion on the bill.

Seeing none, all those in favor of bill two sixty-one, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Thank you very much.

Bill 262.

Resolution providing for the issuance of a warrant in favor of the Melee landscape contractors inc in an amount of 109,847.58 cent for the purpose of emergency snow removal at various locations and providing for the payment of the cost thereof over one year.

Motion to approve.

Yeah.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of bill two sixty-two, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

That moves us to human resources committee chaired by Councilperson Charlotte.

Bill 250, resolution authorizing the mayor and the director of the Office of Municipal Investigations to enter into a software maintenance agreement or agreements with Versa term to extend the current agreement for OMI's electronic case management system, IA Pro for a period of three years in an amount not to exceed $23,413 and 48 cents.

Motion approved.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 250, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Bill 251.

Resolution providing for a professional service agreement or agreements with Fair Housing Partnership of Greater Pittsburgh to provide fair housing testing, housing analysis, and technical assistance to the Commission on Human Relations at a cost not to exceed $30,000 over one year.

Motion approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 251, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

That moves us to recreation, youth, and senior services committee chaired by Council Member Warwick.

Bill 268 resolution providing for the designation and transfer of certain public properties within the upper Lawrenceville neighborhood to become permanent public passive open space, include in the Allegheny River Greenway as part of the greenways for the Pittsburgh program.

Motion to approve.

Second.

May I?

Sure.

Sure.

Thank you.

Um Council members will recall that I think it was two years ago.

Um we also moved some properties that were a little farther upriver into Greenways.

And generally these are very, very steep sloped zone hillside.

And for many years, everyone assumed they actually were already Greenway.

So I want to I want to give a shout out to our real estate department and Director Gula for um helping us comb through these parcels and making sure that they do become permanent city ownership.

So uh thank you for I hope uh that you will support it.

Thank you.

Further discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of bill two sixty-eight, please say aye.

Aye aye.

Affirmative recommendation that moves us to intergovernmental and educational affairs committee chaired by councilman Mosley.

Bill 274, resolution amending resolution number 352 of 2025, which authorized a professional service agreement and or contract with Buchanan, Ingersoll, and Rooney PC for consulting services for federal government affairs and legislative services by extending the term through the second quarter of 2026 and increasing the approved amount by $15,500 for a new total cost not to exceed $589,000 over 10 years.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 274, please say aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Bill 275.

Resolution amending resolution 353 of 2025, which authorized a professional service agreement and or contract with Milady in Wooton Inc.

for consulting services for state government affairs and legislative services by extending the term through the second quarter of 2026 and increasing the approved amount by $16,500 for a new total cost not to exceed $627,000 over 10 years in three months.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 275, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Bill 290.

Resolution authorizing the director of the Department of Public Safety to enter into intergovernmental cooperation agreements between the City of Pittsburgh and various government agencies and municipalities for the purpose of cooperative police and public service door to 2026 National Football League draft.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Discussion.

Councilperson Charlin.

Yes.

Members should have the amendment on the uh in front of them in yellow there.

This adds language to this bill that came over late to us yesterday to make sure that none of the municipalities that will be here for uh their assistance with the draft, that they uh making sure that none of them can partake in immigration enforcement activities while they're here.

Um that's uh it it's not a huge uh amendment on the bill, but I think it's significant, means a lot, and hopefully can calm uh you know the understanding of of why they're here and and what they're doing here.

Um I believe we have some guests to talk about this as well.

We have a motion we did a second.

Second, second discussion.

Yeah, and uh I also just wanted to acknowledge uh that this was an amendment uh sponsored by Councilwoman Strasberger and myself.

Uh uh Councilman Mosley did ask to be included with the amendment as well if that can be updated.

Thank you.

Would you guys like to join us?

Please introduce yourselves and um uh commander Baker, we just met morning council.

My name is Matt Singer.

I work as Deputy Chief of Staff to Mare O'Connor.

Uh and Chief Singer, I want to acknowledge this is your first time at the table.

Uh first uh long time.

Wanna uh wanna thank you for being here.

Uh can you tell us a little bit about what uh what is planned here with uh this uh cooperative agreement with the other municipalities and agencies?

Yes, sir.

So as you can imagine, uh the NFL draft is a massive event, and we rely, as with most events, we rely very heavily on our law enforcement partners, the county, the state, et cetera.

Uh in this instance, uh there is a resourcing issue uh that even our partners cannot meet, specifically in the area of explosive detection canines.

Uh so this is a massive operation to first secure the footprint of the draft and then sanitize it or otherwise sweep it for explosives.

Uh after that, uh as the draft unfolds over three days, uh once it's secure.

There are entrances uh for vehicles, things that may be per pedestrian entrances, things that need to be constantly monitored, vehicles specifically for the dogs.

So what this is doing is this is giving some of our partner agencies who we wouldn't otherwise work with uh for large-scale events the ability to come into the city and loan their explosive detection dogs to us so that we can cover the entry points and exit points for the vehicles of the draft.

How many dogs are we talking?

Probably to to that's a little bit that's a little bit more technical than I can give you an answer for, but I can tell you that it last check uh we were somewhere around meeting 60 to 70 dogs.

60 to 70, maybe as close to 90.

So depending on how we broke out the shifts.

Uh and uh Chief Singer, one of the things that happened with this legislation was that it it did come over late to us uh yesterday.

Can you talk a little bit about why that happened and try to calm some uh you know uh understanding of what happened there?

Yeah, so generally the administration has until about a midday deadline on Friday to transmit legislation that it wants to appear that it wants to appear on the agenda to the city clerk's office.

There are certain times where just because of ongoing business, ongoing work, that legislation isn't always completed in time.

And once we miss that deadline, in order for something to get on the agenda, we need to work with a council member or multiple council members and ask them if they're willing to introduce that to us.

Typically we're usually fine just waiting until the next week, but there are times when things are time sensitive when we want to get it done.

That might be if it's something where we had planned to request a waiver of Rule 8, or if there's a term of a director that's expired that may be close to expiring.

I've worked with several members at the table here since January in instances like that.

We generally do like we do like to avoid uh instances in which we missed that deadline.

I hate to make uh headache for the city clerk's office when that happens, but that's what happened here.

Our department of law was working with leadership in the Department of Public Safety and the Bureau of Police, and we were not able to get the final list of all of the partner organizations or excuse me, partner agencies, municipalities until Monday.

In that case, we had approached council member in this case uh councilperson Strasberger and asked for it to be introduced.

We had transmitted that to the clerk's office.

When it didn't appear on the printed agenda, I noticed it and I had printed a physical copy and brought it to the council member.

When council presents new bills, they have to give that physical copy of the paper to the clerk's office so they can read the title of the bill and assign it a bill number.

That's what happened in in this instance.

So there wasn't any uh any anything that fairs.

We're not trying to pull the wool over anyone.

Um it was just the uh clerical timing issue.

Yeah.

I mean things like that happen.

I do apologize if the optics created any worries or any headaches for council members or members of the public in this instance, the time sensitive nature of it is that with the draft quickly approaching, we wanted the authorization to begin writing these MOUs to be cleared as soon as possible so we can have everything we can have everything finished and with a bow on it with enough wiggle room and comfort time before the draft itself starts.

And uh and Commander Baker, so from your understanding here that these cooperating agencies, all we're asking for them is the these are for their canines, correct?

Yes.

So uh they're they're dogs just to use an explosive detection.

Yeah.

So we're not asking for them to come in and do patrols.

They're not doing traffic enforcement.

They're we're we're asking for this.

There'll be within the footprint, they'll be credentialed.

We'll know who they are.

Uh no one can come into the footprint, even if you're law enforcement unless you are credentialed.

So there's no possibility of some pop-up, who knows what uh happening.

Uh so we're just using them to check vehicles as they come in and out.

Will the dogs have credentials?

The dogs will have credentials.

They'll be had their rabies shots.

Will they have tags?

Yeah, I think so.

We could probably we can probably figure something.

I think that could be uh I'd like to see a picture of that.

Um that's uh you know, my questions here on the uh motion to amend.

Further discussion, council council.

Oh, I sorry, Councilwoman Grossen and Councilman Mosley.

Thank you.

Um we all appreciate that we want things to go smoothly for the and safety of the public in the NFL draft and that um everybody is working really hard to make sure that that happens.

Um I would and I appreciate my colleagues.

We chatted about this yesterday when we after it was introduced, and so I appreciate that everybody kind of came together um to put this amendment on the table.

I also had my staff kind of put together some thoughts, and we maybe have caught some things differently.

Um there is um I think a debate on to whether to best put the amendment at in an attachment or an exhibit A.

Um typically I put it in the actual actionable language.

Because it's supposed to be the actionable part.

So that would mean it would be in like section two.

So, you know, be it resolved that the city, the council of the city of Pittsburgh as follows.

And an example that I think all my colleagues will remember is that we had extensive amendments that were unanimously supported for the um the veterans administration site.

We had lengthy conditions that we put into the heart of the bill, the HDR contract for the VA site.

I think we all voted in support of that.

And so, you know, we there were attachments to that legislation, but we didn't put legislative language in attachments.

We put the legislative language just like we added a section two and a section three.

So it would be I would prefer that the language be moved to section two, probably here.

Because if we leave it in the attachment, A, I'm I'm less comfortable that that is actually binding legislative language if it's like in a at the bottom of a list of of municipalities.

And then secondly, section one says that we are authorizing agreements, including but not limited to this list.

So if we put the condition at the bottom of the list, you know, there could be uh another list.

I'm not saying that's your intent, but that's what we're allowing there to be.

So you know we're just leaving like a giant door to walk through.

Um then also I I would prefer that there be if these are these are like short term agreements, right?

They're meant to be like for a week or something, maybe like a little before and a little after.

This probably no, this this MOU will cover the dates of the draft.

Okay, so we could just say that again.

The kind of the part the public sees is like city council just giving the police the permission to do like whatever they want is not you know what the public wants to see.

So that would be an easy thing to put in here as well.

And if we don't know the exact dates right now, you know, we could put them in by Tuesday or something like that.

And that would wouldn't slow you down or anything like that.

Because this isn't final until this coming Tuesday, right?

Correct.

Um however, the language does say provision during during the draft.

Fair enough.

Um but you know, so it's no harm, no foul.

So let's just put some dates in.

Good.

And um, so yeah, those would be my two suggestions.

I mean, if I don't know what the if the sponsors want to keep the legislative language at the bottom of the list, then it would be easy to to maybe strike out the including but not limited to if you know that this is your final list.

I think that wouldn't be any harm.

If you think you're gonna add municipalities, then I think we should add the binding language to before the list.

And then you would still maybe then you would still have permission to like add, you know, a municipality that is not here.

Um I do appreciate that my colleagues have included the language that it is not undertake immigration enforcement because um according to our like you know, quick eyeballing it in the last like not even 24 hours.

Um Beaver County, Washington County, and Center Township police do have 287G agreements with the federal government on record that we're able to find.

So three of the people in this three of the you know the municipalities on the list do actively collaborate officially with immigration um enforcement that we are able to find.

So I appreciate that that language is there.

Um so again, I'm willing to, you know, if you want to leave it where it is, um I would ask for a verbal amendment to just do the strikeout of the including but not limited to.

Um if if the administration thinks that there might be other municipalities they want to add, then I would suggest we could leave that there, but move the binding language to before the list to into the section.

So I don't know.

Yeah, let's hear first um uh some other members and um we can discuss this.

So I I know that me this might not be the exact topic of conversation that you were commenting on, Councilman Mosley, but you're next.

Oh, yeah, it's it's not I I just had uh a question.

Uh and I know sometimes there's you know highly sensitive strategic information that you don't want to share and kind of you know give the playbook, you know, to to means of people.

Um but but technically, you know, under whose jurisdiction would these um entities be operating under the direction of over the the draft.

So would they would be operating under our unified command here in the bureau?

Okay.

Um that's one of question.

Here further discussion?

Councilmember Warwick.

Um could we I mean, just again, not before Tuesday?

Is can we add uh is it really just for like the bomb sniffing dogs, period?

Yes.

Can we put that in there?

I think that would be uh in addition just to ease people's mind because that makes total sense, right?

We don't want anything awful to happen at the draft.

Just to clarify that it is specifically for whatever the technical term is.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Further discussion, Councilman Cockell.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Have all the other agencies on that list agreed to?

Share their K9s.

Yes.

They have.

That's how we got the list.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who coordinates that?

Your K9?

Yes, the K9 sergeant.

Okay.

Because I get a call from one of those agencies.

And they were like clueless as to they thought it was first of all manpower.

And I'm just learning now.

It's just K-9.

But I just wanted to make sure that all of those other agencies were contacted and agreed to it before we vote on it, right?

Well, I mean, if there's a communication issue, if you share that information with me, I'm happy to reach out to them.

Yeah, we'll do that offline.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Further discussion?

Councilwoman Zelenetro.

I just ask, um, what is the cost of this?

What is this costing the city?

The draft or no, the um the work, you know, the dogs.

So there is no cost recovery here, so this is why it's been difficult to find some partners.

Is is there is no cost recovery for these agencies, so it's kind of who can give us what and how long.

So they're giving it to you for free.

Well, ask for free, yes, in kind.

In point further discussion?

Is there a second round question?

Okay.

So the so my question to Chief Singer is if there's if there's any major problems that you see from your vantage point.

Um we're the legislative body, but I do want to, you know, check to see if there's anything functionally that would change if we were to move the language.

Generally, no, I would just note that exhibits are just as much part of the the legislative record as the rest of the authorization, similar to say a zoning bill, or if you are amending the zoning map, the map itself does not appear in the code of ordinances, but as an attachment.

It is an or excuse me, as an exhibit, it's an integral part of that legislation, nevertheless.

But beyond that, it's up to council's prerogative.

Thank you.

Okay.

So we had a a suggestion for a voice amendment to move the amended language to section two of the body of that.

Would someone like to mo make that motion?

Sure.

Motion to amend um is that how we do it?

We didn't vote on this amendment.

So do we have we can't we don't really motion to amend this amendment?

I'm actually not sure how to technically do that.

So we're all sorry, we're on the discussion of the amendment.

Of the agreement, yeah.

So you could make a friendly amendment to the amendment.

Really?

Yes.

Okay.

We'll make the friendly motion.

In the spirit of friendliness, I motion to move the underlying language.

Um of the cooperating agencies, blah, blah, blah.

Um, under an intergovernmental cooperation agreement authorized by its resolution to be section two of Bill 2026 0290.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Second.

Discussion on the friendly amendment.

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

The amendment is still up for discussion.

Any further discussion on the amendment as amended.

Oh, Councilmember not on the amount.

So I would would you guys mind putting in the language about the dogs?

I don't want to do it voice.

I want it to be correct.

I mean, like, yeah, is that all right?

Comfortable with that?

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Further discussion?

Councilman Cockell.

Councilwoman Warwick brings up a question.

So we're using their K9s, but not their personnel.

Well, the dog would have a handler.

Okay.

Right.

So we are using their personnel then.

I mean, in kind, and we're not paying for it, but we will be using their officers who their partners probably, I guess you should say, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Sorry for that was just a good one.

No, no, no, that's okay.

I'm like, well, K9 officers.

Yeah, K9 officers.

Okay, gotcha.

So with each dog.

Okay.

Or K9 is a handler.

Yes, sir.

One handle?

Just one handler per I believe so, yes.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you.

All those in favor, seeing no further discussion, all those in favor of the amendment to Bill 290, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Bill is amended.

Further discussion on the bill as amended.

Seeing none.

All those in favor of bill two ninety as amended, please say aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Thank you both very much.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmembers.

That moves us to new papers.

Bill 254.

Authorize the mayor.

Funded projects inferred by landmaking personnel for the link and see that will not exceed the office.

Motion to approve.

Discussion.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah.

Someone from Catherine, are you here for this?

Or is it Sally?

Okay.

254.

Okay.

And I think I know what's going on here, but can you introduce yourselves and explain what we're looking at here?

Catherine Murray, Director of Government Affairs at the URA.

Great to see you all.

Sally Stadleman, director of the Pittsburgh Land Bank.

We're looking at pay-go funds that were already previously approved.

And we're we are looking at our co-op, and there was some adjustments that were made to include land bank personnel.

Do you want to expend on that?

Uh yes, Councilman Wilson uh identified this funding about uh two years ago.

This was introduced in 2024 to cover our staffing costs.

Um luckily our ARPA funding has lasted us up until 2026.

So we will we're expecting to spend the remaining of that money by the end of the summer.

So this will allow us to cover uh additional staffing or our staffing costs this year.

And and this is previous money that we're just bringing forward, right?

Yes, yes.

ARPA funds, it made more sense to make sure we spent down those ARPA funds first.

Um and it just makes for a a cleaner balance sheet when we take the funds in the year that we would like to spend them.

Great.

Thank you.

That's all I have.

Thank you, Councilman Wilson.

All right.

Well, thanks for coming to the table.

Thanks for all the great work.

And just so these funds are the ones that we allocated, the council allocated.

Um there was an amendment that we walked through.

Um 25.

No, there was this is in 24 for the 25 budget.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, so I guess late 2020.

And that was to fund two positions.

Yes, this covers about a position and a half.

Position and a half.

Why why is it if we budget it for two that it covers so this is predicted to cover somewhere between 37 and 50 percent of our staffing costs?

That includes the three.

So we're just we're just gonna put this all into the staffing.

Right.

Right.

So the initial calculations were for the calculation for two positions.

And so this is just gonna go into the overall bucket of staff.

Right.

It's almost two positions, yeah.

And so what percentage of the staffing budget will be covered by these funds?

So it'll be somewhere between 37 and 50 percent.

And the reason that's a range is that that will cover, of course, our three existing staff members, uh, the staffing uh fee for services that we pay to the Urban Redevelopment Authority, um, and we have a fourth position budgeted.

Uh that position hasn't been posted or hired yet.

So depending on when that person starts this year, that's the why we have that sliding range of what it will cover.

What would that person do?

Um that position is our we can call them a real estate development manager.

Um there's there's two such positions at the Tricog land bank.

Um as we've been moving along, we're acquiring more structures than land.

When we first started, it was largely land.

Um so now we really need that expertise in-house to do our structural review, uh to bid out our stabilization work, to create our work plans for when we list those properties for sale.

Um I really reached my maximum capacity of time to be able to be out walking through structures, meeting contractors, you know, we require three bids for every um uh all of the work that we do.

So there's really a lot of detail and care and expertise that goes into that uh property management.

Uh and that's what this person would be covering.

Okay.

So for all the for this uh you know, these funds and other funds, like how much how much revenue, like how much we get for for how much bag per buck we get in like how much revenue will the PLB staff um generate?

Yeah, that's a good question.

Um so in 2025, we the Pittsburgh Land Bank generated about six hundred and eighty thousand dollars worth of revenue.

Between twenty twenty four and twenty twenty-five, we've paid the city of Pittsburgh over 400,000 to purchase property.

So that goes into the three taxing bodies um trust fund.

Uh and then this year, I mean, again, dependent on staff capacity, we are projected to make about $800,000 of revenue from our property sales.

Wait, just this year alone, we would eight hundred and sixteen thousand dollars.

And that's largely based on the inventory that we already have uh that we expect to sell this year.

And and just for review, because you know, budget is uh is front and center here since we'll be reviewing the budget again.

The the land bank does get revenue from uh those sales on the tax, 50 percent.

That's the three tax and body agreement that was agreed upon that we all voted on here.

So then that so you're saying this year approximately 400,000 will go back into Yes, I think we've got another 250,000 that we will that we'll we'll spend to purchase property from the city.

Um regarding the the tax recaptures we we capture 50 percent of taxes generated on any property that we sell for five years after we sell it.

Um that number, I think this year will be about 20,000 in revenue for us.

So not uh thousand calculated then for this year.

Uh in in sales in the property that we will sell in the tax revenue.

Right.

Right.

That's actually a pretty small portion.

Um I think especially we continue largely with single family home sales, um that that you know won't necessarily be a uh sustainable.

I mean, every dollar makes a difference, but I I wouldn't think of that as a as a uh sustainable revenue source to keep our doors open.

Yeah.

Um getting a little off topic here, but I just want to ask this general question.

Uh so as the time goes on and you see that the city doesn't have you know, we're we're continuing to see our revenue drop in certain areas, especially in like downtown, you know, um property values, uh, you know, just just the stagnant growth of housing in different parts of the city.

Um, you know, how much of a partner do you think the land bank would be in generating revenue for the city's coffers so that we can provide services across the city?

Yeah.

Um I I would say that you you'd certainly have to think of it as a little bit more of a long-term uh source of revenue generation, right?

Well, we're in a long-term situation here.

We're looking at 11% uh in five years, you know, what was sent over by the administration, 11% in the rainy day bucket for you know, for this for you know, for any emergency that could happen, I mean, I doubt we would do as well surviving a pandemic at that point at the five-year point.

So with 11%.

So we're really I mean, I think I'm interested in a 10-year plan.

So how does the land bank fit into that 10-year plan of increasing revenue for the city?

Um so we've got about 5,000 um parcels in the existing three taxing bodies inventory.

Um I want to say about 7,000 structures, tax delinquent um structures that are eligible for tax foreclosure and and additional parcels.

Um because we haven't been foreclosing at scale in many years, there's a lot of of vacant structures, right?

There's about 2,000 properties on the condemnation list.

Um, you know, at least a third, a half, maybe more of those structures, they don't need to be demolished.

Um but they are holding neighborhoods back from stabilizing.

And so if you think about a kind of a block-by-block approach to help kind of stabilize whole communities where you can allow the housing market to then function normally, um, when you can get uh I think a lot of neighborhoods you could reach a point where you've got a lot of naturally occurring um structures that are selling for 180 to 220, and those neighborhoods have kind of uh locked up because of the inability to turn over that blighted property into the hands of um buyers that could fix them up and get them back on the market.

Um so if we were to operate at scale and kind of move community by community to help um stabilize um and get those properties back on the tax rolls, you would be saving millions of dollars in demolition funds over time because you're we would be working from that the opposite end of the condemnation list to try and pull properties off of the condemnation list.

Um, when you tear a property down in most of our neighborhoods, that property can't be uh rebuilt because the property values aren't there, and so you've lost the taxable value.

I think that takes away almost 60% of the taxable value when you tear that structure down, and so then multiply that by you know five thousand structures across the city.

Um that's I think that's where we can kind of make an impact.

Um you know, so and then you're saving, so you're generating tax revenue and you're also saving a lot of city staff time because we spend a lot of city staff time babysitting condemned structures.

They generate uh litter, blight, they bring down property values, etc.

Yeah, thanks.

Uh my last question, because I know we're getting more into uh some you know, just basically general questions about the land bank getting away from the what 150 that we're transferring here.

Yeah, 157.

Uh we have a residential rehab program pilot uh happening.

And you know, even though we look at these structures and we're trying to get them back on the tax rules, like are people even interested?

Like we keep talking about growth where look, do we have people that are actually buying the properties that were you know, maybe patching the roof and you know the rest is completely vacant and they would have to fix it up or they have to hire a contractor.

Like, is that even is that working out?

Yes.

Because I mean that's a general question.

We all talk about growth, but is growth even possible?

Like, are you seeing that people were interested in coming to Pittsburgh?

Oh, yes.

I mean, we've made or current residents, you know.

Yeah, and and it is right, it's it's pilot phase.

We have I think 37 structures in the pipeline right now, but we've listed and sold five.

We have two under contract that are closing this month, and then we have 10 properties freshly listed.

Um five of which are in Elliott.

Um soon to be 12.

Um and we're getting a lot of interest, and I would say anecdotally, every time I I talk to a contractor or developer, you know, they're very interested in being able to efficiently acquire single family homes.

I think the special part about our program is that our buyers must walk through the property.

We've cleaned that property out so they can see what's going on.

Um, and then we can close uh in as little as 30 days on those structures that we uh have lifts have listed for sale.

So it looks just like a a regular private market sale, uh, except we're not selling to the highest bidder, we're selling to the highest quality applicant.

Okay.

All right.

So thanks.

So it's not a you know wild uh thought to think that we could you know continue down a growth path if we invested in the land bank because you know, I'm putting two together here.

I mean, I've always been this council's always been a partner, and you know, here's dollars going to the land bank that we already allocated, but I just want to highlight, you know, these dollars and um I know that you love talking about the every dollar invested in a land bank, you get back like 10.

Um I think that is a different land bank.

I I haven't run those calculations, but I certainly in terms of people living in the structure, working in the environment, you know, working in the um, you know, in the city or outside of the city, there's you know different different revenue even on top of the that we could that could be realized.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true.

Even like you know, trickle down from rad.

Let's just say people spend time in their neighborhood and dollars go back to even the county that come back to us, and it's a whole economy that you know happens when we uh bring back these structures and sell off those faking property.

So thank you.

Thanks, councilman.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Gross.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

And I and again, we don't need to talk about everything land bank since it is only an additional 157,000.

But I did want to acknowledge that I've been getting this question a lot recently.

And I want to say maybe I haven't answered it as well as I might have, and this reminds me to kind of like correct the way I've been describing it to people.

Because um, and I'm talking like on the street corner and random phone calls I'm having, and like constituents are like, oh, the the city has thousands of homes that are are falling apart.

And I've said that's technically not correct because we own we have about 10,000 parcels that are have no structures that have the city of Pittsburgh's name on the deed.

But um that some of them we've had for 40 years and and we haven't been as you as you described taking more.

But that we should have been is I think the point that I should have further made, right?

And that you are have said before at the table, but you reminded us again today that they're either on the they're delinquent or all the way so far gone that they're condemned.

Um and so I just want you to correct me further.

So like how many, how many of each do you think are ones that given that we don't want it, we're not talking about taking grandma's house, right?

Because we've had that discussion in years past, right?

Like if your elderly neighbor is a little bit behind on her taxes, we're not gonna come in and grab her house out from under her.

But those houses that people are sad uh rightfully so or upset that we're allowing to just fall down around us, let alone cause the blight and the problems or rodents or whatever it is in their in neighborhoods for people.

Like tell us about those.

Just again, a little bit more.

Yes.

So um, so talking about the condemnation list specifically.

Okay.

So I think um uh to start what's important to know about condemnation is that a house can be condemned simply for not having running water.

Got a million dollar mansion, there's no water, it's technically condemnable.

So we know that there's a significant portion of those properties that don't need to be, they don't need to be demolished.

They will be demolished.

We will all pay to have them demolished.

And it's about a hundred thousand a pop at this rate.

I mean, how much are we paying?

75?

It's a big range.

I think a single family home on a flat parcel is probably more like 30.

Okay.

Um, but once you calculate in, if it's a double party wall, then it does get closer to 100,000, especially if it's a small one.

You've got to send in uh people to tear that property down.

Say like average 50 just for easy math.

I think that's dumb.

We don't want to spend that money.

That's dumb.

Exactly.

Right.

And so, and I think we're finding that um, especially with a double party wall structure, that for the same uh or a less of an investment than it would cost to demolish, we can stabilize that property, even if we sell it for a dollar, it's a it's a win.

We've preserved the structure.

Um that's a that is a uh structure that's gonna be uh taxed at a higher value than a vacant lot.

I was thinking more like a hundred years.

Are there like two of them in the city of Pittsburgh or two thousand of them in the city of Pittsburgh?

Like how many do you I know you've looked at this more carefully and more recently than probably most of us.

There are 1,980 condemned properties as of maybe a week or two ago.

Um something else to keep in mind with that list too is that something is condemned because a neighbor has called because somebody's noticed that it's it's vacant.

Um with more data analysis and and um the you know with additional staff ability to be you know combing the the streets, um we know that there are more houses out there that uh are abandoned and vacant, but they haven't been reported.

They're not deteriorating deteriorating enough on the outside to know that that they need to be condemned.

Um, you know, I think sometimes, and then it's you know, even the inspector opinion on what should be condemned varies a lot because they've got I don't know, maybe at least 10 that you know, all of all PLI code enforcement does condemnation.

So you're even gonna get some variability in what they're choosing to condemn.

So that list is likely larger than that.

Uh I the numbers of what is what we believe to be um vacant housing eligible for tax foreclosure.

I I definitely have that number in my capital budget presentation from 2025.

I'm I gosh, I want to say it was 7,000.

That's a lot.

Someone can should go back and uh I mean, I can I can go back and check um uh double check to make sure I've got that right.

So what we've said before at the table is that, and I think what the public wants to hear from us is that we are going to move, we haven't moved quickly enough for a couple of decades, and so that we let those properties that were perfectly fine 20 years ago, 15 years ago, now fall down, and that's bad.

We want to stop doing that.

So your work is gonna get in front of that kind of demolition by neglect cycle.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And that's what we that's what people want to hear, and that we're we're basically funding here.

Uh, you've also said that you so far, like right this minute, like today there's 40,000 in property tax annually that has been recovered by land bank work.

The land bank gets to take half of that for five years.

Do you kind of have a goal for the next 12 months of how much more in property tax recovery?

There is.

But like number of houses that you have a goal for the next 12 months.

This year, let's see.

We made 88 sales last year.

Um I don't know the number off the top of my head.

I think it's going to be something similar.

It's between 60 and 90 projected sales.

And it might be a little bit lower this year just because we're switching from lots to structures.

You know, we can sell kind of 10 lots at a time, and it can be a similar amount of work to the sale of a single structure.

So even if like let's say it's another 40,000 in property value.

You don't really know for you know property um tax revenue.

Um, even over 10 years, that's 400,000 just today of what's been you know the property tax revenue, right?

We shouldn't look at the property tax resume revenue as a one-year number.

And we usually think about this other ways, right?

And so if we doubled that, then we've already gotten up to like, you know, over the next 10 years, hopefully, you know, we'll double that.

Um and so we'll have 80,000 in a given year or 800,000 over the next 10 years.

It's cumulative, right?

That that that 40,000 this year doesn't like roll off the property tax revenue, right?

And so we're gonna keep hopefully adding at least the same amount each year and maybe even um get better at it or faster at it and have more capacity to do more.

So or those houses that the next the next set of 10 houses or 80 houses that you get won't be quite as falling apart.

Yes, right as we get ahead of this.

Exactly.

They will be hopefully maybe more valuable, but also less intensive, labor-intense, you know, cost us less in the handling and rehabbing before we put it back on the market.

I just want to paint that picture for people because again, I think um what I've gotten like their questions before, I was kind of like, well, no, technically those aren't City of Pittsburgh properties, right?

But I I want to make sure that we finish the story and say, but we are starting to take those properties that you see you see them on the street and you maybe think they were already city properties, but they aren't.

They're still, you know, they got somebody's name on it.

Maybe it's someone who uh we can't find and who abandoned the property 20 years ago.

Um but that's that's what we're funding here, is the work that you're doing to get ahead of that cycle so that those that someone can live in that house.

It doesn't fall apart as you watch it fall apart and then get condemned because it's people are rightly kind of uh you know unhappy to see those.

Right.

That wasn't a question, but I just wanted to make sure that we kind of put when we talk about this that we talk about them both, so because people still ask me questions about it, even like literally like this month.

So appreciate it.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Further discussion.

Wait, Councilman Coggle, do you have a question?

Uh yes.

Okay, sorry.

I saw you lean forward, didn't see your hand.

So we'll go to second round.

Uh so uh welcome.

Good to see you both.

Uh I just want to clarify, and I think Councilwoman Gross just did, and I just want to verify of those 1,980 condemnations.

They're not all city.

They're a mix of private and city.

That's exactly right.

There's about 250 structures in the three taxi body inventory last time I checked, and the the rest are privately owned.

Oh, so it's 250 of those are cities, so we're just a fraction of those condemnations.

Right.

Is it harder to um get the ball rolling for a demo or to rehab uh something that's privately owned?

I mean, I've had nightmares with this.

Um well now that the land bank has the ability to place properties into sheriff sale, we can process a property and and receive the deed with that is free and clear in about nine months.

So we have our uh our inaugural batch of properties that are in district three and four that we're getting ready to place in sheriff sale.

So we do expect that to create a much more predictable pipeline uh of receiving properties.

Yeah, I've got um one in particular on Pauline.

I may have given it to you, I'm not sure, but it's privately owned.

You know, we're trying to find the owner from she's selling what can she do?

But uh I wonder if that's on your list.

Pauline is not ringing a bell, but I know.

It's not polling, it's off polling, it's one organ.

I'm sorry, it's not Pauline, it's off polling, it's one or again that might be new.

I because I know we talked about one a couple of years ago.

That one did turn over on its own.

Um but if you have any properties you would like us to look at, please send them on the phone.

This is a demo.

It's it's fallen fallen.

It's done.

And if it's if it gets a good idea.

And you'll still aggressively pursue a private condemnation to demo it.

You're not I understand trying to get ahead of the curve.

But so we don't do demolition.

We only do stabilization at the land bank.

And that's only because we have we have such a a robust demolition program through PLI.

I don't want to do that.

I know it's gonna be a demo.

It's not questionable.

And you're always welcome to email both of us.

Right.

And I'm happy to look into it with Director Columbus and we can we can make a determination if it makes sense for his program or mine.

Okay.

Um but kind of you can kind of think of us as working.

So you won't pursue a sheriff sale for a condemned private property that needs to be demoed.

We're we at least try not to.

Okay.

PLI can do that, and that's who I believe it's on their radar screen, so that's good.

Uh one other thing I wanted to ask you is um the bidding process when you do put something up.

How does it work?

Is it private bidding?

Is it public?

Is it For the sale of the property?

Yeah.

So when we take it through sheriff sale, we have a priority.

The Pittsburgh land bank has a priority bit.

So the property is not exposed to general auction at sheriff sale.

But when we acquire that property when it enters land bank inventory, if we're selling through pilot residential rehab, we'll just list it for sale.

Uh we list our properties on MLS.

We typically list through a realtor, so that would be visible to any buyer in terms of the city.

But we're not the realtor, we hire a realtor.

Right.

Who is our realtor?

Um we have we've used a handful.

We actually have an open RFQ right now.

So if you know any licensed real estate agents, please send them our way.

Right, right.

Um we have some listed through um Miranda Um McIntyre and Zach uh Rostelli right now, um, and we've used um yeah, and we've used others as well.

And we'll use other real estate agents.

So do we give them a starting price or do we just take it I mean you said we don't have to take the highest bid.

That's right.

So you have the power to say, well, this is the most qualified person by looking at their plan or what they're what they plan to do with that property.

So we set a work plan, right?

So we have a minimum uh amount that we want to see that that buyer can leverage, and then they have the ability to craft their own work plan.

You know, sometimes if you own a uh contracting business, if you work in the window installation industry and you want to say, oh, I can I could do this work myself, and you think you could do it a little cheaper, we're happy to hear, you know, we're happy to take those uh modifications to the work plan.

Um then they have to have proof of funding to both purchase and rehab the property.

That's really the number one requirement.

Yeah, but we do have a starting price, meaning we cover the cost, right?

Yeah, and so and that's part of why we like to use a licensed real estate agent is that we're really leaning on that agent to help us uh know the market and what's gonna be competitive.

Um of course, and we and just like any regular real estate sale, we'll we will of course take offers on um on that property once we list it for sale.

I want to say our average price right now is between um twenty and sixty thousand dollars.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And and obviously the agent that works by a percentage point, I would think.

Yeah.

Yeah, we yes.

Therefore, they were incentivized to try to get the biggest bang for the buck.

Um because of the low prices, we actually are.

We have well, we have a couple.

Um and actually our current agent, she used to work for the Urban Redevelopment Authority.

Like they're both very community involved.

And so there are some folks out there that kind of want to give back, want to participate, even though they understand this isn't gonna be a you know a a major revenue source of uh uh uh for their business.

But we we are finding folks that that are willing to be our listing agent, even though um it's it's just a flat commission.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Um that's all for me.

I'm glad you're getting a little bit of money for your staff.

That's that's wonderful.

But um obviously we have to find a long-term solution for you.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you.

Councilman Wilson, did you have a question, second round?

No, that's not a statement.

So uh well, I do have a quick question to follow what you said because I think believe and look I don't want to put words in your mouth, but were you wondering if at all we ever demo properties that we don't own.

Oh, I know the answer to that because I know I've had that, but that was through PLI, not through the land bank.

Okay.

And that's what you verified, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

So I know there are private properties that whether we can't find them or whether it's a good idea.

So you knew that already.

I was just saying.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

I don't think that's yeah, I just didn't know if the land bank actually.

I think that's important connection because it kind of relates to Council Ports and Gross's uh questions, and I don't have a words in your mouth either, but I think you were just trying to clarify, you know, um something you often say, which is that the city there's really only X number of structures.

And you're you were focusing on the city-owned structur inventory.

But really, we're responsible for more than that.

Yeah.

Yeah, like you know, what we're talking about close to possibly close to 7,000.

We'll we'll get a more 80 percent really is not owned by us.

We're going on people's property, right?

Lien the property.

So we're really responsible for making sure that these properties are taken care of, and which ultimately leads to people's you know, neighborhoods looking better.

Even though it's not our fault.

But yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

And so to that effect.

I think there was, you know, some mentioning some question about like decades of not, you know, having this this process in place where we're recycling, you know, a good land recycling process.

To that effect, it's very similar to our disinvestment in the fleet throughout decades.

But we here sit and think that the fleet is like this.

You know, I believe it is too, the core service.

I mean, that's how we deliver services, right?

It's it's it's you know number one function almost.

And oftentimes I wonder how much we're committed myself as well.

You know, committed to making sure that investing in a good land recycling process and structure recycling for whatever you want to call it, and investing in entities like the land bank, if we actually see that as like a core city service.

It doesn't feel like we see that as that.

I would love to get there for myself and for all of us in the administration.

But um I think that when we have these really tough conversations about the budget, I just feel like there's this other part of it, and this is that part of it that we're like we could really you know do a lot better at.

So you know, as always, I hope to keep this conversation going with this.

But I would like to get somewhere where we actually see you know investing in a land bank as like a core city function, like core city, like a function of our government.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So uh yeah, I agree.

Um I think it needs to be taken more seriously.

Uh however, I do feel that in your line of work that we could almost self-sustain itself unlike vehicles where we're you know take them off the lot and you lose half their value pretty much.

But in your field, we at least can recover and get them back on the tax rules, which helps again, as councilman growth said the long-term, you know, revolving year after year uh income.

So at least we're able to get some back.

Uh but no, I I agree with you, Councilman Wilson.

It's um I'd like to clean up all the properties.

Uh you know, I I I'm a little surprised to hear that we only 20 percent of them are really our structures that are condemned.

That's that's kind of uh a lower figure than what I was estimating.

So I don't know if it's good or bad.

It's it's good for you know the city of Pittsburgh, I guess, but as Councilman Wilson points out, it's still our responsibility when somebody abandons a place.

So I wish he could you know do the demo as well.

But I mean I would I mean we have an excellent demo program that we run through PLI.

If if the the funding is there, then we can you know and I and I really want to emphasize that you know we we have to do demo and stabilization side by side.

It's kind of like not an either or I can't sell my structures when we're not able to demolish those uh around that structure that need to come down.

Um it's just it's I think it's just a matter of funding.

And at least with cleaning lien or when PLI takes on a private, there is a lien, correct?

I mean, if it costs us fifty thousand dollars to tear that house down, then whoever purchased that property, if anybody ever purchased that property, we are reimbursed.

That is technically true.

I'm not sure how often that lien is actually collected.

It it kind of it it with the majority of lots, they don't they're not um it really creates an issue where you can't resell that lot because the value of the lot is much lower than that.

Yeah, and we're asking for 50,000 to knock it down, it makes it really unpurchasable pretty much.

So it sits there as a green space.

Okay.

Thanks.

Further discussion, seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 254, please say aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Bill 255.

Resolution adopting.

Excuse me.

Resolution adopting plan revision to the City of Pittsburgh's official sewage facilities plan for 120 Cecil Place at no cost to the city.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of 255, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Bill 256.

Resolution adopting plan revision to the City of Pittsburgh's official sewage facilities plan for 403, 407, and 413 Shelf on Street at no cost to the city.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none.

All those in favor of 256, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

Final final bill of the day, Bill 257.

Resolution approving execution of a contract for disposition by sale of land between the URA of Pittsburgh and Margaret Elizabeth Graham for the sell of block 50 F, Lot 144 in the 10th ward, City of Pittsburgh, Rosetta Street, Council District No.

9 at no cost to the city.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor of Bill 257, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Affirmative recommendation.

That exhausts our standing committee's agenda.

Meeting announcements this afternoon at 1 30 p.m.

Council will hold a cable cast post-agenda discussion on the fourth quarter 2025 financial report.

Tomorrow, March 26th at 11 a.m.

Council will hold a pre-agenda interview with John McClory for the directorship of the Department of Public Works.

Next week, Council will hold their regular meeting on Tuesday, March 31st, and Standing Committee's meeting on Wednesday, April 1st, both at 10 a.m.

to register to speak at these meetings.

Please fill out the sign-up form on the council meeting webpage by the deadlines.

You may also call the clerk's office at 412-255-2138.

Is there anything from members?

Council President Labelle.

Thank you.

Um so as members are aware, uh yesterday the administration we introduced legislation from the administration to reopen our budget.

Um I believe the last time we did it was in 2020, I believe, when we had to direct uh money from our reserve fund to our operating budget so that we wouldn't have to lay off uh workers during the COVID 19.

Um but this time, so that was just a singular amendment, whereas of this time there's actually 63.

I'm looking at our budget order, 63 actual amendments to do the operating budget.

So for that purpose, we'll follow a more traditional operate uh budget process.

And so next Tuesday, um we'll have a special meeting on the committee of finance and law where we'll have the administration and OMB here to present the 63 amendments where the members can have an opportunity to actually ask questions.

And then on Wednesday, April 8th, following our normal standing committee agenda, we would then have a special line item vote on all those amendments.

And then on Tuesday, once we voted through the amendments, we didn't have to actually hold a public hearing.

So we would then hold the public hearing.

Um and then on Wednesday, April 15th, we would then hold our preliminary vote, and then on the 20th, which is will we have double meetings on that Monday, we'll have our final vote so that we can hopefully be done with this before the draft.

Um with that, I actually need to call for a special meeting of the Committee of Finance and Law for Tuesday, March 31st at 130, as well as on Wednesday, April 8th, uh special committee of finance and law um for attending a light item vote.

I need someone to say, Second.

Thank you.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

We will make we will schedule those.

Thank you, Council President, for keeping us organized in this.

Any further anything else from members.

That I'll oh, Councilman Mosley.

Yeah, I just wanted to um to take a moment to send my condolences to the family of Dr.

James Johnson from the African American Music Institute, um, whose home going ceremony will be this Saturday.

Um, you know, true cultural giant uh in the city who's been recognized uh by the Pittsburgh Symphony uh and many of our other uh esteemed institutions uh for what all he has dead all that he has done to preserve the rich uh jazz legacy here in the city also was a very dear friend of my father.

So uh I'm sure they're having some interesting conversations about jazz music um, you know, right now, but uh just I had an opportunity to speak um to Mrs.

Johnson last night and uh and I look forward to mourning with them on Saturday morning.

But I did want to put that out there because he's been so important to our community.

Would you like a moment of silence?

Yes, yeah, I'd like to call for a moment of silence for Dr.

Johnson.

That'll take a motion to uh approve the minutes and adjourn the meeting.

All in favor?

Meeting is in turn.