Good afternoon, and welcome to a special standing committees meeting for Tuesday, March 31, 2026.

All council meetings will be live streamed on the city's website.

And for guest speakers, please leave your microphones on.

Our first order of business is roll call.

Will the clerk please take the roll?

Mr.

Charlin.

Mr.

Coghill.

Miss Gross.

Here.

Mr.

Laval.

Mr.

Mosley.

Miss Salonetra.

Here.

Miss Warwick.

Mr.

Wilson.

Here.

Miss Strasberger Chair.

Here.

Five members present.

Thank you.

So our next order of business will be public comment.

I do want to just note since this is a special standing committees meeting for uh purposes of level setting.

Here's how it's going to go.

We will have public comment.

This is a standing committee meeting.

Members of the public will also have the opportunity to provide public comment tomorrow at our right at our normally uh scheduled standing committee meeting and at the public hearing, which is scheduled for April 14th at 130 p.m.

Um the clerk will read all the bills in the entirety, so we will be discussing all of the all of the bill, all of the amendments.

And the administration is going to present their amendments to the 2026 operating budget and discuss some of the top line expenditures and why some of the revenues have changed.

So today is an information session.

We will leave the bills open.

So with that, um we are going to open it up to public comment.

Council concerns include local government and of course the budget and LI sister cities.

All those flags out there should be taken out because you don't contact us about anything that has to do with them.

The Pittsburgh Home Rule Charter.

And in connection with that, the Pittsburgh City budget.

And to compel the attendance of the mayor at a council meeting.

And why did Council not compel Mayor Claymond O'Connor to appear here to attend this meeting?

31 March 2026 that has to do with bringing more order to the Pittsburgh City budget.

That door should be open all the time.

It is in more than 1,500 council council offerings across the United States.

The mayor is in the meeting, and the mayor often has a vote.

Why is this door not open?

And why is O'Connor not here?

Why did you not compel him to be here?

Thank you very much.

Are there any further speakers?

Any further speakers?

There being no further speakers, we will move on to our special standing committee's agenda.

So we will have a um an overview and a policy discussion for the reopening of the 2026 budget.

I'll ask all of our invited guests to introduce themselves and then those presenting to present.

Oh, please read the bills first.

Thank you.

Bill 278, resolution amending resolution 933 of 2024, which reappropriated Federal American Rescue Plan funding by updating the approved projects as outlined in Exhibit A version 10, Bill 279, resolution amending resolution 838 of 2025, which fixed the number of officers and employees of the City of Pittsburgh for the 2026 fiscal year and the rate of compensation thereof and set maximum levels for designated positions by eliminating one district chief and adding one assistant chief in the Department of Public Safety Bureau of Medical Services.

Bill 280, resolution amending resolution 841 of 2025, which authorized appropriations, salaries, and capital expenditures of the Parks Trust Fund for the 2026 fiscal year, beginning January 1, 2026 by increasing the spend amount by 500,000, and Bill 285.

Resolution amending resolution 835 of 2025, which made appropriations to pay the expenses of conducting the public business of the city of Pittsburgh and for meeting the debt charges there out for the fiscal year beginning January 1, 2026.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk.

And now with the will the guests please introduce themselves starting here and moving down.

Um the Office of Management Management and Budget Acting Director, Rhea Price.

Um the Assistant Director for Operating and Special Revenue, Elizabeth Starcom.

Uh Dan Gilman, Chief of Staff to Mayor O'Connor.

Thank you all for being here.

I believe that our presentation will be given by Acting Director Price.

Sure.

Thank you.

Okay, um, while I'm presenting, uh you'll see before you I've placed a copy of both the presentation and all the amendments.

Um I just want to make you aware that there are a lot of amendments uh close to around 80.

So I'm not going to be going over them all in the presentation.

Um it'll just be a higher level.

And we'll go over some of that, the main ones.

So as council president Strasberger said, we're here to discuss the 2026 uh operating budget reopener.

So um, what I wanted to start with uh was the five-year financial forecast uh from the budget that you passed at the end of December.

Okay.

So this is just a snapshot of that page.

No changes.

Okay, now this is the revised five-year financial forecast.

This is how everything would change assuming that council passed all of our budget amendments.

And I know that there's a lot on this screen.

Okay, so first of all, I want to focus on the upper half of the five-year financial forecast.

The first thing that you'll note is a road that says use of fund balance.

And so there is an amount in 2026.

That is about $6.5 million and some change.

Okay, we had to use some fund balance in order to balance the budget for 2026.

So that's what that represents.

Then moving down the item that you see highlighted in blue, that is payroll preparation tax.

And $8 million has been added to that amount.

In discussions about the results of the fourth quarter report of 2020 25, we kind of outlined that there was about 12 million dollars in payroll prep tax that was for 2025 that was not booked until uh January of 2026.

Um I've had conversations with Finance about this, and we felt that it was safe to increase the 2026 amount by $8 million.

Um in the ACFAR, a lot of uh that $12 million will be credited back to 2025, but um the budget is a different accounting system than the ACFAR.

So like I said, we felt it was uh safe to uh include eight million dollars on top of what was already uh in the operating budget that you passed.

And then um in charges for services, we actually backed out about 1.9 million dollars.

Uh that was for um the automatic red light enforcement program, and that was because um I didn't think it was safe to assume that we would collect any revenue this year uh from that program.

Um it hasn't even started yet, and um revenue collection would probably be at least a quarter behind.

So just to be on the safe side, um I we took all of that revenue out for 2026.

Um I did uh receive recertification letters from the both the controller's office and uh council budget office.

So um, and then um at the bottom you'll see the total revenues, and um this show the only change would be for um 2026.

Well, and also the 2025 estimate has been updated too since uh uh the year has ended, and we could update those results.

So um I basically just uh went through this uh with you whenever I discuss all the changes to the five-year financial plan, but um this slide just has the actual reference to the amendments on your sheets in case you're interested.

Okay, um now moving on to the expenditure section.

Um so you'll see I've added a row that says amendments.

So uh you'll see that the total amount of amendments per year is on that line.

So we've added about uh 20 a little over 28 million dollars in amendments uh for 2026 alone.

Um then uh you'll see the operating results row, and of course in 2026 is added that is zero because we had to use a fund balance in order to balance the budget.

And then um moving down uh the transfer to pay-go line, um years 28, 29, and 2030, we have added two million dollars to that.

Um, and that comes from uh a line item that was an EMS's operating budget for vehicles.

So we've uh essentially reallocated that to pay go for vehicles in those years.

So then uh moving down uh at the bottom of the page, uh you'll see how these changes uh impacted the ending reserve fund balance and the fund balance percentage.

And you will see uh that throughout um all five years of the plan uh we do remain legal, and at 2030 uh we reached uh a 10% uh fund balance.

Again, this just summarizes what I just mentioned in the previous slide, so I won't go over this again in the interest of time.

But I wanted to highlight some of the main higher figure amendments for you.

And feel free to chat if you have any questions.

Okay, one of the main items that we're addressing in this reopener is our active health care.

Okay.

So first of all, amendment 23, we're updating the amounts that were appropriated in every single department.

Okay, now the reason for this is because uh this has to do with our VIBA trust fund.

And I don't know if uh how many of you are aware of our VIBA trust fund, but that stands for voluntary employment employee benefits association.

And basically uh we pay all of our health uh all of our health care benefits out of this trust fund, and then uh typically that trust fund is reimbursed monthly from these allocations that are in every single department.

In 2025, there was a um a reduction of five million dollars uh that was supposed to be taken from the departments and put into the VIBA trust fund.

So basically it wasn't in 2025, the VIBA was not reimbursed fully because of that $5 million drawdown.

And then on top of that, um if we went to a new payroll system in 2025, um there were some issues with how um it was taking funds out of that account.

But um in the end, basically the account was that trust fund was insolvent as of January 1st of this year.

So there is no way that that um could absorb another $5 million transfer, which is what was budgeted for 2026.

So that has been backed out.

That is one of the main changes.

Then related to that, um because that account was insolvent.

We are attempting to restore um the buffer that used to be in this trust fund every year.

So we have budgeted three and a half million dollars in both 2026 and 2027 to try to restore uh that amount.

Well um there's differing opinions on what that amount should be, but um I think that $3.5 million should be good for this year, and we whenever it comes to looking at the 2027 operating budget, we can um give that another look, and that that amount may change uh whenever that time comes.

Um there are some other items that are uh related to active health care.

So um amendment 16 has to do with Teamsters Healthcare, and the rates in there were just incorrect.

So this is just to update uh those uh those rates and make sure that those are correct.

Um there is a PJ CBC union benefits.

Uh, this is amendment number uh 55.

And I'm gonna be completely transparent uh with you.

You're not gonna find this in the actual CBA.

It was a sidebar from uh 1990, and apparently the city has never budgeted correctly for this.

So this addresses that issue.

But basically, what this means is that um for the privilege of hiring um temporary seasonal labors instead of permanent employees, uh the city agreed back in 1990 that we would contribute 27% of uh the health care costs uh to the health and welfare fund.

So that's what that amendment is.

Um amendment number 59, that's for PJCBC medical waivers, and essentially that is um, so any member who who chooses to not go on our on health care, they'll receive an annual bonus of between um $1,150 to $1,650.

So those are um all the uh um amendments related to active health care.

And um I should have uh I think those add up to about like a little over $9 million in 2026.

So then um moving on to retiree health care.

Uh there was a $12 million transfer from the OPEB trust fund that was uh plugged into the budget for 2026, and likewise there were additional transfers um in the out years uh from that trust fund uh to the general fund.

So um and then there was one that already occurred in 2025 for five million dollars.

And um just for illustrative purposes, I wanted everybody to wear be aware of what the fund balance was in the OPEB trust fund in uh 2025, it was 46 million dollars.

If all of these transfers were to occur, that would draw down that OPEB trust fund down to uh about 18 million dollars.

This is the four investment earnings.

I haven't factored in investment earnings, but it would draw that down to about $18 million by the end of uh 2031.

Um, sorry, um OPEP uh stands for um other postemployment benefits.

Um this was a trust fund that was uh required by Act 47 for us to set up at kind of at the beginning of Act 47.

And um it was never meant to be drawn upon until around 2030, and um the city regularly made contributions to that trust fund of a pro like it started out as a few hundred thousand dollars per year and it got up to um a regular uh transfer uh of about two and a half million dollars per year.

I think this ended sometime after the pandemic started, and then um these transfers out of the OPEB trust fund uh were budgeted beginning in 2025.

So um I just wanted to point out that this trust fund was not created to be an annual subsidy uh to the general fund every year.

So um and we couldn't that's a large number, 18 $18 million.

So we'll even um without that uh the original five million dollars, we couldn't remove all of that out right now.

Um so for now, we've only taken that $12 million down to $6 million.

So at this point, we are intending to go to the OPEB trust fund to ask for a six million dollar transfer.

Um, and we will have to relook at all these other transfers whenever it comes uh time to look at the 2027 operating budget.

Sure.

So you just said we'll ask the OPEB trust fund.

So is there an oversight?

Yes, there is a board.

And who is this board?

And is it appointed by the mayor?

And do we see these nominations?

Because it's just not ringing a bell here.

Um I I I can tell you, um, I know Jen Gula from Finance is on it.

Um I believe um Paula Kellerman is on it.

Um Solicitor Mark Mark I believe on it.

So that's entirely people from the current, whatever is the current administration.

The mayor may have yes, please.

The the mayor doesn't apply, it's legislating the original construct and by positions they're on there.

So the mayor doesn't choose, we don't submit.

In the 1990s or 2000s it was legislated this week.

This was either 05 or I think 05 that this was created, is that correct?

Yeah, somehow around then.

So there it's in an ordinance and legislative, but it was legislated in the 2000s.

Thank you.

So the public can't see how this is structured and there is a structure, and got it right.

Thank you.

Yes.

Um, and some other amendments that are related to collective bargaining or uh civil service.

Um first of all, we've updated salaries for all ASME 2719 employees and Teamsers employees.

Um ASME did reach a tentative agreement uh agreement on December 31st of 2025, um, and the Teamsters are still waiting on uh voting on theirs.

Um premium pay, we've added uh $2,000 annually for the Commission on Human Relations and $10,000 or $100,000 annually for DOME.

So uh currently that there isn't uh no premium pay budgeted for those departments.

Um CHR, that's a very small department, so it's very easy for them to go over budget if uh there's no premium pay budgeted for them.

Um and also this is uh a relatively uh new item, longevity for ASME 2719.

So uh after 10 years of service, those members uh they're uh eligible to receive merit uh bonuses of between $500 and $2,000 based on their years of service.

Um some other large items that I wanted to point out.

Uh there are two amendments related to the snow events, so those are amendments number nine and number 10.

And I just wanted to point out that the cost of the snow event was actually over $4.4 million.

However, we're only asking for about a little under $2.3 million.

And $500,000 of that is to cover overtime.

And $1.7 million is to cover our contracted snow removal costs.

Another large amendment is due to our fleet non-target repairs.

So we're asking for $2 million more for that.

Our current budget, what we have right now, that's likely to only get us to July.

And in order to pay our bills for the rest of the year, if we continue on our current rate that our invoices are coming in, yeah, we'll need around $2 million to cover the year.

But this honestly may not be enough.

And even with this additional $500,000 $550,000, last year we spent about $3.9 million, and I think this will only get us to around $3.7 million.

So later on the year, we may have to come back to council to reallocate money from somewhere else to cover fuel.

Some parks items I wanted to highlight.

So one of the mayor's initiatives was to create an Office of Youth and Families.

So the amendments related to that are amendments number 48 and 49.

So that includes adding a deputy director for parks.

And I just want to point out that that deputy director would not just be responsible for the Office of Youth and Families.

I think the number was $112,000 per year for that item.

Yes.

And some of these expenses will be offset by reduction of $500,000 in the miscellaneous line item in 2026 only.

Moving on, vehicles, I kind of previously mentioned this earlier whenever I talked about the paygo item.

But EMS's operating budget, there was a little under $2 million budgeted each year for vehicles.

But it was budgeted both here in a liquid fuels trust fund.

So I'm not sure if that was a duplication and error, but we removed most of this.

We decided to keep in $167,000 for a rat packer.

So first of all, in parks, we're removing one program coordinator and one recreation leader.

We are moving the assistant director of community affairs from public safety admins operating budget to the trust fund.

Uh we're removing uh a stop to viol one stop of violence coordinator and one crime analyst.

And we're asking to increase the salary for the safe uh seniors safer together project coordination.

Coordinator, sorry.

Um so uh those are the main um those are like I said, I didn't go through every single uh operating or trust fund amendment.

Um I just wanted to go through the main ones.

Um if you have any questions about any of the other ones, um I'm happy to take those.

Thank you.

Well, before we take questions, was there anything that um I want to thank you, Acting Director Price for this comprehensive overview?

Was there anything that anyone else wanted to add on the front end?

Chief Gilman.

Thank you, counsel.

Uh I just want to uh touch briefly at a high level without being repetitive to the great presentation.

Uh I've been trying to explain this often in the media in a way that's digestible in a 30-second TV spot, which is not easy.

And I always use a roofing analogy and now sitting across from Councilman Cockell, I feel a little uncomfortable using that analogy.

So I apologize.

But I I've said that to me there's three buckets here.

There's the you gotta fix it now, there's you gotta fix it soon, and the you know, you got a few years to fix it.

And I said it is similar to if you have a loop leak in your roof.

There's what you have to do to stop the water coming in.

Your roofer goes up there and says this whole section, I'm gonna be back in three months, and then there's the you probably have three to five years, but you're gonna have to replace the whole thing.

And that's a little bit of where we are.

And there these are really large numbers.

You know, the mayor's talking about 30 to 40 million.

Then you look at this, those two don't quite add up, and that's why.

It's because we're talking about buckets of and our priority right now is we're going to present this body and the public with a transparent, honest budget.

Then we will work together with this body with the city controller on what that means in terms of creating a balanced and sustainable budget.

Some of those things need to be fixed right now.

When we came into office, as you heard, uh the uh the Viva Trust Fund was its old.

We did not could not pay another medical claim.

There was nothing.

There's supposed to be 10 million dollars there.

This year, I think we're gonna go to five.

Is that five or six?

What do we end up on the amendment?

Um we're we're adding five and well, we're actually adding eight and a half million dollars to Viva.

So we'd like to get back up to where we were.

We can't afford to do that in year one.

That's uh, you know, okay, three to five years, we'll get there, but we obviously can't sit at below zero when we have medical claims to pay.

The OPEB trust fund, it was not meant to be spent yet, but it is an emergency fund.

There is, we are in tough times.

We know a lot happening in the the country and in the world, driving costs, etc.

So can you use some now, but not use the full $12 million drawdown and not plan your entire next five years on drawing down your your emergency plus.

We have a rainy day fund, we're proposing we use a little bit of it.

Not too much, but we're gonna use a little bit of it to get through.

We know, and the list could go on and on, and each of you could list 20 things.

We need to put a little more money into bridges right now.

We know the catastrophic realities if we don't do that.

Same with some of our HVAC and roof repairs at our city facilities.

And then there's things payments are due.

We owe money for fleet maintenance, as you heard.

We owe money for for gas.

Our water bills, our gas bills are going up, just like everyone at home has theirs going up, and the budget didn't accurately reflect those realities.

There's a new one, you know, the people to my right might get angry because I think this may even be new in the last day.

Homewood pool is gonna be reopening this year.

The money is not budgeted for a fully operational homewood pool.

It was not budgeted for a operational Oliver Bathhouse.

Those things are coming online.

If we want to have those assets, which the mayor does and is committed to providing our families this summer, we gotta make these tough decisions.

412 Boulevard of the Allies has a contracted annual amount.

We have to pay into a capital reserve fund.

The budget just didn't have that accurate number.

That check is due whether we like it or not.

We signed a contract, it is coming.

We got to do those things now.

Then there's the longer term conversations, which we all share.

How much are we putting into our city facilities?

How much are we putting into our fleet?

How much are we putting into our parks?

You know, etc.

As well as other decisions, like what is the park stacks being spent on versus what was the legislative intent and the intent of the public.

We have a lot of positions in OCHS that are currently grant funded, and there's no sustainable plan for when those positions come on.

So we're gonna have to make some very tough decisions together in the coming years.

Thankfully, we of course have the debt cliff next year, which helps make this less catastrophic than it could be.

Uh, but we're gonna have to make those tough decisions, and I will speak on behalf of the mayor.

His priority, and when he ran for the job was making it back to the basics.

Every family's first choice is a place to live by providing safe, clean, and vibrant neighborhoods, third places, housing for all, rental, homeownership, uh apartments, single family, quality parks, main streets.

That's where we're gonna put our budget proposals forward to you, and then of course work collaboratively to do so.

But I just wanted to to really highlight those three buckets because I think there's been a lot of confusion of what do we have to do today versus what are we gonna have to do together over the next three to five years.

Thank you.

Anyone else for opening remarks or will otherwise we'll move to questions and answers from council members?

And I'll I'll defer to Council President Lavell first if he has any questions and then does anyone is anyone time limited?

I know Councilwoman Salonetro had to leave.

Okay, so then we'll take questions as we get them.

Sure, thank you.

Sorry, thank you.

Uh first um question for the um changes to the subdivisance trust fund.

Do the changes exceed the 50% cat that can be used on staff.

Um I don't have that number before me right now.

I'll have to look at that and get back to you.

Okay.

Thank you.

That was my main question for right now.

Thank you.

Other questions from council members.

Councilman um Wilson, followed by Councilman Mosley.

Thank you, Chair.

And uh thanks for coming to the table to talk about this.

And uh a huge welcome to uh Chief Gilman.

Is this have you been here before me?

The the one this since you're back, or is this the first time?

I joked every time I came before I was offering money this time, like not so much.

My my streak ran out.

I'll be back before you soon.

I'll be back.

This seems like the first scheduled scheduled official timing at the at the table though.

So good to see you.

Uh so I did have some questions that we look back on this uh sheet that you give us, and I appreciate you zooming in on a couple of these slides because you know, as I as I get older, I realize how they get different glasses for these meetings.

Me too.

So this uh amount that was payroll preparation tax, we have a 2025 estimate.

That so sixty-nine million then twenty twenty-six.

What was the what was the estimate that we originally had for 2026?

Um in the operating budget that you passed at the end of December, it was eight million dollars less for 2020.

Okay, yes.

Yes.

Okay, so my here's what I was just gonna confuse on the day on the years here.

So in 2025, we had an estimate, of course, for so why didn't we like what will be the reason why we didn't have that 8 million in here?

Like why wasn't it 60?

Why wasn't it?

Well, I mean is it is it budgeted here?

Like, did we know that the 80 million was supposed to come last year?

Um yeah, that's where it was budgeted.

Uh so it was budgeted, the eight million was budgeted in 2025.

Okay, so the 69 number reflects the 8 million is within that.

So that I think the budgeted amount would have been like 77 million.

So the 2025 call column that shows that um what actually came in.

So that are so yeah, that would those were the number the unaudited results of what actually came in.

So what actually came in was around uh sixty-nine million dollars.

Okay.

For 2025.

Yeah, I'm just curious.

What was the the agreed upon amount that we looked at?

I guess that would have been in 20 uh for 2026, it was 77 million dollars, just over 77 million.

Like in 2024 when we were sitting here and we were estimating what will come in in 2025.

Do we know that that what that number was?

Do you mean the budget amount?

Is it sure budgeted for 2025?

I can look that up for you.

So that would be different than this estimate then.

That's correct.

Yes.

Right.

I'm curious to know what that is.

Yeah, we'll give that.

Yeah.

I mean, we can find that up too.

Sorry, I just find it.

I just wanted to clarify what we're talking about here.

2025 budgeted amount for payroll prep tax was 77.2 million.

Okay, so we did estimate that correctly.

We just never collected it.

Right.

I think there was delays in collections.

So does that happen some years or is this really an anomaly?

Um this year was an anomaly.

That was uh a very large amount.

Uh so it was around 12.

Um, I believe it was around 12 million dollars that finance uh believe should have been booked to 2025.

But it was booked in uh January instead.

And there's some shuffling around of those funds whenever it comes to the AC first.

So some of like a lot of that will then for the ACFAR, it will show up in 2025.

Okay.

And for this other fund here, this Open OP.

The OPEB trust fund.

Yeah.

Can you explain that again?

I know we there was some back and forth.

So that stands for the other post-employment uh benefit.

So you say again other post-employment uh benefits trust fund?

Okay.

Like for instance, what's what's another other like uh retiree health care and there's other uh benefits that mostly um fire and police.

So even though we have a retiree health care account.

Right.

I mean one of them is the Vivo.

Uh that's for active health care.

Okay, that's active.

But don't we have other retirement this is the is this the only trust fund that's for retirees?

We don't actually pay out of it though.

So we um it was required by Act 47, and we were supposed to uh uh steadily contribute to it.

And eventually um I believe that the year um that was mentioned um was 2030 that we could uh begin that it was assumed to have enough funding that we could start uh drawing down on it.

So what is Act 47 requires us to do with this fund?

So we had to set it up and we had to start uh contributing funds to fund that.

Um yeah, but is there a certain like amount that or percentage that were required?

I I haven't been able to locate any documentation on on that.

So there it there's so the amount of 46 million as of November 2025, that was just I mean I'm just trying to understand what the like.

Yeah, so uh that is the that is after um all the contributions that the city had made to it and that includes uh investment earnings as well.

Yeah, but that was just um I just wonder how they they determined that's what the numbers that should be in there.

I'm sorry.

So like is it based on a historical number of how much we know we spent out of the fund or no, we've never spent anything out of there.

Um the first time that anything's been spent out of that was whenever the five million dollar transfer um occurred in 2025.

Okay, but okay, so what why does the Act 47 at that time why did it require us to because our retiree health care uh expenses uh were so large and because the city was you know under acute um acute financial distress.

Right.

So uh this is one of those requirements that Act 47 um it's just said to continually put money into this fund and don't spend it.

Right.

And what and we we could use it in cases of emergencies.

Like say I mean say that there was another pandemic or um something like that.

So who determines that when it comes out of that fund?

So um there is a uh a board for the trust fund and uh uh councilwoman gross had asked about that.

I I'm not sure how many members are I I've actually never been to a board meeting.

None of us are on the other.

There are five members.

The council president is a member, the city controller, the solicitor, the HR director, and did it say budget or finance?

Finance director.

Those are the five.

Okay.

I'm just curious around the rules around it because I'll just try to get you as much information as well.

Just like the PJ C B C that like that's not typical conversation that we're right.

Oh, yeah, understand.

Have a newer budget season.

Okay.

So which department would answer those questions in the future?

So um well, so the OPEB trust fund, I like those transfers used to be budgeted out of finance.

So and uh Director Gula is on that that board.

Okay.

So um, but I I can get some information for you.

And any questions that you have, uh feel free to direct them towards me and I'll I'll organize uh getting information.

So okay, so it'd be clear though 2025 was the first transfer ever, but it was created in 2005.

Around then, yes.

Okay.

All right, and then the fuel, obviously that's we're all feeling that in our pocket.

What is the the current budget was three million?

Sorry, I might be repeating here, but I just want to go over this one part.

Three million.

And that was what we budgeted when we passed it in 2025.

It was around I don't um wasn't it 3.1 or something like that.

Fuel for that's the 2025 number.

Okay.

Yeah, roughly.

Okay.

25 or 26.

Well, the budget we passed.

For 26, it was uh three point zero four million.

We are proposing putting that to three point roughly six.

And how much did we spend on fuel the year before?

Well, last year we spent, I believe $3.9 million.

3.8 or $3.9.

I looked at the $1.

Yes.

A million.

Yes.

$800,000 from the previous year.

Okay.

So then fifty.

So $550 want to get us there.

Okay.

I just want to be reminded of what that line was.

Oh sorry, I didn't go over the ARPA amendments.

And then for the um for the moving the Cali Rec Center funds, could you um you know publicly say what what the strategy is there?

So yeah, I mean there's plenty of funding there.

It's just basically uh swapping funding sources for that.

Well when we say plenty of funding, like plenty of funding for force.

If I may, counselments there's a little more policy money.

The ARPA money needs to be spent this year.

Uh very specifically asked, could we demo the building this year with the ARPA funds as to not move it?

And the facilities department said there was no way with contracting and the site stabilization that would have to go into that as you know it's a complicated demo that we could do it.

So if we leave it in that line item, it'll go to waste.

But uh as you know, I don't think there's a that was literally the mayor's first uh project he talked about.

We are deeply committed to putting money in the budget and applying for grants and everything else to a new Cali Rec center bill.

Okay.

Yeah, I just wanted to be transparent about what's happening there because I know the optics are money is moving away from a project that the community wants, but the reality is that this is um you know ARBA money, and this was the conversation originally when money was moved out of it, was that um the administration at that time didn't think that they could get it they could really execute the project in time to use all the ARPA money.

So but this is so what will be left in this in this uh the Cowley line item?

Yeah.

I believe we're zeroing it.

Anything that we're moving left, that's not actually true, I should have that line item will be zeroed out.

There would be no ARPA money left.

No ARPA, but there is still funds for Cali.

For Cali.

And uh I'll you know, we can talk about that.

It's not pertaining to this purpose, but okay.

All right, I'll follow up on those on those other items.

Thank you.

Sure.

Thank you.

Councilman Mosley, followed by councilwoman Morwick.

Yeah, I want to um thank you, Director Chief and Director and Assistant Director for uh coming today.

I truly appreciate um the very detailed and thorough presentation.

Um I know I'll know I'll have you know a series of questions as we as we mull over this in the coming days.

But my my initial question is you know, in particular um about uh what um Chief Gilman uh alluded to uh with Hollywood pool.

If you could just elaborate a little bit more about about the gap um that that exists and and and what you could see as without getting into too you know Gory of the details, obviously have a lot of of information um to mull over how do we you know you know close that gap um because as we know this is you know a really a banner project for the entire city, but obviously uh of great import uh to the residents of Homewood and the neighboring neighborhoods.

Uh I get probably a question about how Homewood pool and Homewood Park and when it's gonna open.

I would say probably on a weekly basis since I I've been on council.

So if you could just elaborate a little bit more on what you touched on in your previous comments today.

I'm looking in the email that came today.

Well, I talked to you, I'll get you the uh the bottom line, my understanding, and I'll get you a confirmed date, there is a belief that the pool is on schedule to be ready for the opening of pool season uh in the city.

But in terms of the employees that it takes to run a pool, whether that's that's lifeguards, that's the rec staff uh that work there, they weren't uh anticipated in the budget.

Okay.

Uh so we need to make sure there's funding.

I'm working with the parks director to see if he can shift money internally, hopefully, or whether or not we need to come to you with another budget amendment to figure it out.

Uh and the same thing was true with Oliver Bathhouse.

Sure.

So that's so this is uh not capital, but operational.

Operational correct.

All right, thank you.

That exhausts my questions for now, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Councilmember Warwick.

Yes, thank you.

And apologies for not uh not being there in person today.

Um yeah, so I just I wanted to start by asking.

So we um you know we implemented uh 20 percent uh tax increase, real estate tax increase last year, and I believe that that the that was um estimated to generate about 28 million dollars.

not uh not being there in person today um yeah so I just I wanted to start by asking so we um you know we implemented uh 20 percent uh tax increase real estate tax increase last year and I believe that that the that was um estimated to generate about 28 million dollars um 10 million of that was immediately allocated to vehicles last year um so what I wanted to ask first was uh you know with the increased spending which you know I understand all the things that you detailed about you know things where we need to to spend more health care fuel all these things um what for for those dollars what is being pulled sort of out of the fund balance whether that's this year or moving into you know into future years versus what is being what what is being covered by that tax increase and what and and then what's the difference between those two does that question make sense um I think so um so yeah I I'd mentioned uh that row that said the use of fund balance so we are pulling uh six and a half million dollars from the fund balance to uh cover these these amendments um and also um basically what was uh the amount that was in your operating results of the budget that you passed were basically using that too so that's a result of the 20% increase so I I think that operating result wasn't it around like 15 million dollars 15.6 million yeah 15.6 so yeah 15.6 million um is coming from the 20 percent uh millage increase that uh you and you enacted uh at the end of 2025 and six and a half million from the use of fund balance so that's for 2026 only just for 2026 okay and what about in the out years is that so the out years currently we're not uh there's no use of fund balance there and um I would have to do some calculations I'd have to uh take a look at um the operating results in um that was in the budget that you passed uh compared to the um the new operating results um assuming that you uh passed all of our amendments so that's a calculation I would have to do and get back to you got it got it okay so and then where are we with the percentage so I if I if I recall it's like 10% is where we legally have to be for the fund balance but it's better to be at 16 or I can't remember with the best practice um where are we in 2026?

So 2026 uh we are at I can't get to see that sorry 15 I said 2024 yeah we're at 24 percent and um in 2030 we are down to 10 percent is exactly okay so all right so um so looking a little rougher in the out years but this year healthy correct I'm sorry I missed your last so so in the outer years it's it's you know we're we're we're cutting it very close uh but in but this current year 2026 it's healthy yes the fund balance yes okay at 20 what was the best practice number I can't remember I know it's like 16.7 percent okay okay so this year in 2026 we are at 24 percent correct okay and that is with all these amendments that that you're making I'm sorry and that's with all these amendments that you that you that is correct yeah that is assuming that all these amendments uh were passed okay okay cool um okay uh my next question is and this actually goes back to the last uh the last uh meeting that we had about the the the um 2025 I like quarter like report right on the 2025 report so uh we had said last time that there was a nine million dollar deficit uh for 2025 but then I think you said at the beginning of this that there was 12 million dollars in payroll that wasn't like collected until until 2026 does that impact does that impact that deficit I mean just for like the record um yes so um you'll see the beginning fund balance um well the ending fund balance for 2025 that number has been updated from what you had in the 20 uh 2026 operating budget the one that you passed so um that ending fund balance that has been decreased by um a little under nine million dollars and so that you know that has an impact over the uh entire five year plan so yeah that is accounted for there and then um like I'd mentioned um as far as the payroll prep tasks um so uh we increased that by eight million dollars uh due to that um you know um that 12 million dollars that was uh booked this year rather than last year and did we know why there was that much because that's the that's a lot of money so that's tax money that was like should have been collected in 2025 but wasn't collected till 2026 do we know well it was collected it just wasn't booked I guess what does that mean so um so um the finance finance staff uh it was collected but then you have to actually you know make entries in the financial system and then um the

And did we know why there was that much because that's that's a lot of money?

So that's tax money that was like should have been collected in 2025 but wasn't collected till 2026.

Do we know what it's gonna do?

Well, it was collected, it just wasn't booked.

I guess what does that mean?

So um so um the finance finance staff uh it was collected, but then you have to actually you know make entries in the financial system and then um the cashiering system, so um, but due to staffing issues, um, and some other issues.

Um, yeah, it and they I for my understanding they weren't booking things from the bottom to the top, they were booking things um that were at the top of the pile, and so the items at the bottom were the um the oldest ones, and they got booked to 20 uh 2026.

But like I said, in the AC for a lot of that will um be shown for 2025, but that is a different accounting system um than we use for the budget.

It's a little complicated.

Okay, so and so but does that does that impact like because we were talking last week, I think it was about like revenue versus expenses, and there was a deficit for 2025.

Does that number impact that that deficit?

Yeah, all that is.

All that has been accounted for in the five-year uh financial forecast.

Okay, so so in 2025, just I mean, just for the record, so are there wasn't a deficit, there was actually three million dollar surplus.

No, no, in 2025, there um so as far as the unaudited uh results, there was a nine million dollar uh deficit for 2025.

Okay, but that includes this 12 million dollars that wasn't booked then.

That's correct, yes.

Oh, okay.

I understand.

I understand.

Okay, so I misunderstood.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

Um all right, so um my next question is okay, yeah, around the the vehicles.

Um, so um, I heard you say that we reallocated pay-go for vehicles because of the because of the the money from you know for for ambulances, and that there was some money that was in the operating budget for EMS that was also allocated to pay that was moved, sorry, to pay go for vehicles.

Um is that reflected because if I could if I recall last year, so in the in the the current, I guess the current 2026 budget, what is allocated in the out years for vehicles is very low.

It's like two million, three million, yeah, it just covers all leases, I believe, on on fire trucks.

So is are those numbers going to be adjusted?

Um yes, like I said, if you look at the pay-go line in the five-year financial forecast, um the amount in 2028, 2029, and 2030 um has increased by two million dollars each year as a result of um that proposed uh transfer of that EMS operating funds to that line.

But is that specifically a line for vehicles or is that just well that two million dollars uh we intend to allocate uh specifically for vehicles.

Okay, so that's what I'm saying is I would like to see.

Can we do that now?

Like can we do that not like say that we're gonna do it, but actually do it in as since we're adjusting the budget?

Um yeah, I would have to um yeah, I'll have to talk to uh the administration about that.

I'll I'll see what we can do.

Okay, because I mean that's my concern.

You know, we've talked a lot about vehicles, and that's why I just really want to, you know, the tax increase, you know, we put 10 million into vehicles this year for 2026, and um I want to make sure that you know, and the the taxpayers, you know, they really felt the pinch with our our our vehicle situation, right?

Especially with the snow.

Um, and so it's it is top of mind, and I want to make sure that that is you know, even and I understand that the outer years are not ever set in stone, but it I think it would be best to have that clear for people that like we're moving money, like we didn't what would so what makes me a little nervous, I'll say is when we were talking about vehicles and investing in vehicles, the idea that we we got this influx of cash, so now we're taking money out of vehicles and just putting it into the general pot, right?

Without a commitment that it's actually that this new money that we've gotten from vehicles is in addition to, right?

Like it is not instead of like, oh, now we can take money out of vehicles, like oh, UPMC gave us some money, PNC gave us some money, so now we can take money out of vehicles in the future.

Like that's not what we should be doing.

Does that make sense?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

And um the other thing I wanted to ask just about that, uh, just in terms, because this is something that's always been a little tricky with um operating with this idea that sometimes there's vehicles in operating budgets, and so you know, like EMS has an operating budget for vehicles, but but that isn't in the ELA.

And I know that the police maybe have that as well.

Is there I or I would like to say that I think that we should consider um not doing that anymore, right?

Like vehicles are vehicles, no matter what, and that and that it all should go through the ELA so that we have a big a clear picture of vehicles from from soup to nuts.

Um it depends on the vehicle, to be completely honest.

So it's completely appropriate.

Um, uh whenever you're like talking budget.

Um so police vehicles, because they have a um a short lifespan.

I'm I'm not sure exactly what that lifespan is.

It's definitely like five years.

Yeah, something like that.

So um something like that should be paid from your operating budget.

Um, but then uh these other vehicles like fire trucks and uh garbage trucks, uh those uh that lifespan is much longer than that.

And so those certainly shouldn't come out of your operating budget.

Um so I mean that that's some of the rationale uh why police vehicles are budgeted in the operating budget, but for the most part, most other vehicles should not be budgeted and operating.

Yeah, but I mean I will say that you know, we have an equipment leasing authority, and when we talk about vehicles just historically, we have talked about this, you know, 20 million dollars is the bare minimum that we should be spending.

And I get that that's not even feasible, right?

Like I get that that is not that number is not something that we can necessarily do, but it makes it very confusing when there's like piece, you know, like some money's here, some money's there.

Um, I think that when it comes to vehicles, uh, because it is something that we sort of manage centrally, like through the equipment leasing authority that that it we should be consistent, right?

Like across the board with how we do that.

I understand that's not a budgeting question, but I think it's worth mentioning here.

I don't know if if uh if Chief Gilman has any comments on that.

Uh he left.

So he had the another engagement.

Okay, okay.

Um, all right.

Well, so anyway, that's that's something sort of put a pin in that in that conversation.

But I will say that um, you know, as far as voting on these amendments, um, this idea that we are moving that we are moving money out of vehicle, like that we've gotten some new money for vehicles, and thus we are moving money out of vehicles, like dedicated funding out of vehicles and into the just the general pot.

That feels like a non-starter for me.

I'll just say that up front for for you know for everyone's benefit.

Um, okay.

Uh so the last question, that's I guess it's unfortunate that Chief Gillman had to go, but the last question I have is about the stop the violence funding.

So the pro so the the job the the um roles that have been removed, um are these roles that are filled or unfilled?

I'm pretty certain they're all vacant.

They're all vacant.

Okay, so I do have a concern about, and I don't I'm not sure if you're familiar, but it says that there's one project coordinator and one, I guess you youth.

Well, first of all, I'm very happy about the deputy director for the deputy director role.

I think that's great.

I think that's uh uh you know a necessary role, so that's that's great.

Um but the rec leader and the program coordinator that have been removed.

Um council um approved last year, and uh the former administration started a pilot program to do after school programming that was run by the city and operated in Pittsburgh Public Schools.

And uh I am concerned, and roles were created for that that were funded through SOF the violence, and I'm concerned that these roles are part of that pilot.

Is that something that you're familiar with?

Um, I'm not, to be completely honest.

One one of the positions, the project coordinator is a city sports position that is not a newly created after school program position.

The recreation leader, however, is, but that fell under a project coordinator for after school programs.

I believe it is they are reimaginating the program itself with the new proposed city youth or the youth and families program, and they thought that the second, the lower position was duplicate.

Okay.

So well, I guess that's something that I'll need to talk with with Director Sloan because obviously out of school programming is and uh you know is an important part of the mayor's agenda and this pilot, I think is um a really strong step forward in our ability to work with PPS and ensure that you know it's it's sort of testing the waters to see can the city work with PPS to provide quality after school care, you know, the same care that we provide in our rec centers in PPS buildings, and uh you know, if we are able to do that and we can expand that and you know grow that program, um it would mean not only uh would it provide out of school care and even potentially in the summer, right?

Uh for Pittsburgh families, it would provide them for PPS families specifically, which would also make PPS more attractive, right?

As a school district, right?

We know that if PBS can you know that any school that can offer free after school care to students so that parents don't have to worry about picking kids up until 6 p.m.

and that those kids can stay in the building that they're in, um uh that that is that is a very attractive um a very attractive amenity for for parents choosing a school, and the more parents who choose PPS means the more parents who you know stay in Pittsburgh and come to Pittsburgh.

So anyway.

Uh so yeah, I definitely want to have some more conversations about that.

Um I don't think I have any other questions.

Um, you know, thank you uh director price.

I know all of this, you know, and and all of your work here going through these budgets and looking.

I mean, even for me, just listening to the presentation with all the you know, the health care costs and the the bargaining agreement costs and all of that kind of stuff, it's like really just kind of makes your head swim.

So I really appreciate you taking the time to go through and and you know, in such a detailed way um to make sure that we are that we are where we need to be, and you know, we're we're financially, you know, financially um on on good footing here here at the city for 2026 and and you know moving forward.

Actually, you know, I do have one question, just for the record is would it be helpful if we increase revenue even more?

Of course.

Thank you.

I just wanted to just make sure that that was that was clear for for the public and everybody.

Like any ways that that we can increase revenue are ways that we can run a better city.

So that's all for me.

Thank you so much, Madam Chef.

Thank you.

Uh any further questions from council members.

Okay.

Councilman Cockell.

Yeah, I just wanted to uh welcome you back, Rhea.

Uh thank you for all the work you did on this.

I know it was kind of unexpected and thrown at you.

Um Jerstin, thank you also for your cheat sheet.

That was very helpful for me.

Of course.

Consolidated everything.

Um thank you for printing.

I I think we need to print larger, not you.

So um, but uh but thanks Robert.

I mean we could question a thousand things here, obviously, but you're confident that we're gonna be able to pay the bills we need to pay this year without um going in any further funds, other than what you warned us about with the um fuel fund and couple other things, right?

Right.

So yeah, we may come back at the end of the year um to move some funding around.

Um but hopefully um Yeah, and there's repairs is uh you know, we get knocked over the head with those every every year, so I'm expecting that because we don't have the new vehicles yet, but obviously the future we have a whole new fleet that will be much better.

So just want to thank you all for being here.

Um I don't really have any questions.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Anything else?

Council uh member um what's your name, Charlotte?

Yeah, the bomb.

Uh yeah, thank you for being here.

And you know, I uh had a lot of questions, luckily uh I appreciate the administration for walking me through um some of the amendments that we had to make here.

Um but one of the questions that I have that's kind of a bigger picture.

So we all worked really hard on this budget last year, um, trying to to do the best we could to find the holes that were in the budget um before the end of the year.

And there's there's things that just we couldn't see.

Um one thing that that sticks out is like health care costs.

There's there's just there's really just no way for council members to know what is missing and and what we didn't account for and what was miscalculated.

Uh how things like that, how can we improve that in the future so that we have a better understanding of that?

I I just I don't think there's any way that that our uh us as members or our budget office could look into could f catch some of those holes um on the you know in in December.

Um well uh council person Strasberger, she uh has set up uh post agendas following uh the release of the quarterly reports.

I think that is helpful.

Um sort of you know keep you aware of you know what's going on throughout the year.

Uh so you know there's that um uh communication and uh transparency right there.

Um and uh yeah, just keep in mind that um LMB has a much larger staff and uh we interact with departments every day.

So and um and we we essentially work on the budget year round.

So, you know, there's definitely you know gonna be some things that um you're not aware of just because you you don't have that, you know, um constant eye on the budget and expenses every every single day.

So but um but yeah, I mean we're definitely open, you know, to any questions that you may have, you know, p please feel free to reach out at any time.

Yeah, I think just the thing that gets me a little bit is is sometimes the calculations that we're we're just not aware of you know what one bargaining units healthcare, how how we calculate that or something something like that, that it's just I I feel like I really can navigate through the budget pretty well.

Um but to be able to to find you know that and and kind of for me sometimes it's like does this go up a little bit?

Seems like it should go up a little bit.

If it doesn't go up a little bit, then there's probably something wrong.

Because of a lot, then probably there's a story there.

Right.

Um beyond that, like some of the, you know, the the calculations for those things, it's like how would I know?

Right.

I mean the budget document for as for as large it is as it is, uh there's so much that you do not see just by you know looking in in the numbers there.

Um, you know, we have our our budgeting system or uh Questica Um and it shows a lot more, but even then, I mean uh there's a lot of conversations that go into the detail there too.

Like in even our health care numbers, we rely on outside consultants to you know help us out with those calculations as well.

So and you know, obviously um uh uh council isn't a part of you know those discussions.

So I mean I think it's a real shame that we were not, you know, with some of these holes here.

I one thing that stands out that I can't believe that none of us that that we all missed was city cuts.

Um that was remo you know it e we even acknowledged early in this the season that it was weird that the mayor's office had landscaping.

Um but in the final version we didn't pass it or we didn't add city cuts back in.

It's like I I feel really bad that we that none of us caught that.

There are thousands of um like budget lines in uh Questica, our budgeting system, so it's very easy to miss something like that.

Yeah.

Um I appreciate the work that you've done on this and uh well, I'm sure continue to have questions over the next couple weeks and throughout the rest of the year as we move through move on to the next year's budget cycle.

Of course.

So thank you very much for being here and uh thank the administration for their their help guide me through this.

Yeah.

Thank you, council member.

Councilwoman Gross.

Thank you.

Um there we go.

Thank you.

I I followed along, I think, um, through everyone's questions and I've been digging through the budget lines.

But I'm thinking also of some of the conversations I've had at community meetings or with constituents over the last couple of weeks, and it's probably good for us to do a little bit of a basic framing.

So maybe if you like I'll tell you kind of like the question I got and you can tell me in your own words or maybe say it better that I answered it.

It that people were asking about you know how we budget for five years, right?

And some of us maybe uh not me, but you know, some of you may have been here before there was actually the five-year the change to make sure that we did five years in the operating budget.

But we're putting that five-year forecast on the paper so that everybody can see what are the ramifications of us creating this new program or making this change, and if we just kind of so we can all see any red flags that might be in the future.

Is that how would you describe it?

Yeah, I would say that um a five-year financial plan is a best practice.

And um, yeah, I was in OMB previously from years like uh 2008 until 2017, and um in all of those years we always did a five-year budget.

Um but yeah, um what council is passing is essentially the um upcoming uh fiscal year, the operating budget for that.

And uh those numbers we try to be as spot on as possible.

Um as you get into the out years, you know, some of those numbers start to get a little fuzzy.

It's very hard to predict what's going to happen five years from now.

Um, but we still try to do the best that we can.

There are some expenses that we know that we're definitely going to have.

Um and so you know, we definitely try to account uh for that.

But I mean it's just good financial planning to have a five-year uh financial plan.

And since we're required to have a balanced budget, we're also prognosticating revenue.

And so we're, you know, we have to guess, you know, what are the revenues going to be.

And I through this kind of painful few months of trying to figure out uh accurate expenditures, but also accurate revenues.

You know, I just wanted to, you know, remind people that you know, council was saying this early assessments dropping plus the um unfortunately leases or utility costs being able to open pools.

How many swimming pools we had?

Well, and it's that's correct, yes.

Um it's painful to teenagers, I think can't pay these bills.

Like not and you know that's bad, right?

That would that would be bad.

I remember that summer that happened in Hillman and Yeah, that would be bad.

That's right.

So that is something the city did not just during during COVID because the pandemic, but years earlier was unable to open pools, had to close pools because of the budget.

Correct.

And that's even when water was free.

We just couldn't afford the payroll.

Um, or you know, you see other cities on the news like not pick up your garbage.

Right?

And it just prowls up week after week after week.

So you know, the we want to be able to pay our bills, and we want to make sure the bills are accurately reflected so people can see what they are.

That it shouldn't be fuzzy.

So we're clarifying what those expenditures are.

They're we're putting on paper there they're more than the expenditures we put on paper in December.

Um, and we we're showing where the funding is coming from to pay them.

So that's generally it.

I have one question I'll ask as a yes-no question.

In case you don't really want to answer, you can just say no.

Um have you looked at what the revenue would be if we'd had a reassessment?

Um no, we have not gotten done yet.

But that's really the big unanswered question.

Right, absolutely.

What would these revenues look like if you know magically there had been a reassessment yesterday?

And it will be painful and we won't all be happy about it, but it will change the revenue numbers.

Correct.

Yes.

All right.

I'll just stop there.

Just with that kind of boogeyman.

It's out there.

All right.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you.

I didn't see any additional questions for second.

Oh, Council President Lavell.

One final question.

Because me and Councilman Wilson would five barring.

I want to make sure what I was understanding was correct.

So for Oh, sorry.

Sorry.

I just want to make sure my understanding was correct.

So for the retiree health care, we are we taking money out of the verb in order to to do the other amendments, the restoration as well as No.

No, okay.

No, we're not taking any more money out of the VIBA.

Uh we're we're doing the opposite.

We're restoring the VIBA.

Okay.

So uh that's what so there was um it's hard to describe without showing you.

Um previous oh, sorry.

Okay.

So budget 25, human resources of civil service, it says from 12 million to six million.

So that was money that was budgeted to be withdrawn from the OPEB trust fund.

Okay.

Got it.

Okay.

So you're restoring it.

No, we're not restoring, we're just not taking as much from the OPEB trust fund this year as um was previously budgeted.

Okay.

So we were previously preparing to withdraw 12 million, excuse me.

Simply withdrawing six.

Yes.

Just be I mean, we wish that we could lower it even more, but um it's just so tight we can't do more right now.

Okay.

And the restoration the update, those dollars are really coming from our fund balance.

Is that um basically some from the $8 million that we're able to collect that we're accounting for this year, but then also money from our fund balance.

Yeah, all together.

That large pot of money together, yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

I'll just ask a few very quick questions to follow up on that.

I you know, I think uh the VIBA and the OPEB trust funds are two um they're like these opaque boxes that we just it's really hard to understand, and I even I am like after two years of attending the joint financial task force meetings or are still understanding how they um are governed and what they're for and you know differentiating between the two, but I think um we don't currently have there's nothing legislated, and this was asked yesterday at the at the financial task force meeting, so I'll just daylight that.

There's nothing that there's no legislation that requires a minimum amount in either of them, correct?

Um there's nothing legislated uh locally for the Viva Health Cape.

Yeah.

Um however, uh the state does uh set a minimum balance for the Biba workers' comp got it uh trust fund.

And last year that was four million dollars.

Okay.

It'll probably be the same amount this year.

Okay.

So that's not legislated locally.

Perhaps right for legislation or at least discussion for legislation to see if there's um, you know, that we don't yeah, I thought that was a great suggestion yesterday.

It was it was it I'll just also like give credit where credit's due is Namita in the controller's office.

Yeah, so um, but maybe there's some other pieces of legislation that we could discuss or consider or just even toss around um as brainstorming ideas.

Not that we want to legislate our way out of this, like I said at the uh post agenda hearing, but um perhaps there are um perhaps these there are learnings that we could can be taken from this and and say in guardrails that we can put in place legislatively or through rules or policies.

Um the only questions I had, um thank you so much for your um comprehensive overview.

Um this might be a better question for our finance department, but to the extent that you know, anyone who can answer, do we have any opportunities to restructure our existing debt to limit our short-term obligations?

I I've been hearing from many different people who have been trying to sell us the opportunities to you know try this trick or that trick and yeah, they it uh so yeah, there's been different uh scenarios that have been presented to us.

Um some of them may uh violate our debt policy.

Yeah.

Um and um some of the um the structurings may end up costing us more money long term.

So um yeah, it it it depends on what problem you're trying to solve.

Anything else or yeah, I was just gonna say I know when we had our briefings with the bond council, um when they were coming to council to ask for um the approval to go out for this year's bond, um that definitely came up to them.

Um and they kind of said that they always explore options and like if an opportunity arises that they think would be a good opportunity for the city that that is definitely something that they would bring to us um and recommend to us, but it sounds like a lot of the proposals that they've seen at this time are maybe not the best fit for the city.

Right.

We can always uh restructure our debt.

Um and potentially refin, I mean we definitely can't refinance right now.

The um the interest rates are not favorable for that.

But um, as far as restructuring, that is something we could look into, but like I said, I mean it would likely violate our debt policy and it would cost us more money in the long term.

Thank you.

And as we, you know, as we revisit our progress through these quarterly report post agendas, what would you say council members should, you know, the top line revenue item uh line items that uh council members should keep their eye on the most.

I mean, what do we what do we really need to grow if we're going to um find our way out of this in the next couple of years?

Earned income tax, property tax, like what are the top line items that we should be watching?

I mean, yeah, you mentioned them already.

Um I thought it was definitely interesting looking at um property tax versus income tax.

I remember years ago, uh property tax was by far and large our largest source of revenue.

Um if you look at the five-year financial forecast, uh the direction that those are going is down.

They're not increasing.

And also um the income tax, uh, that growth rate is surpassing, obviously, because uh the property tax is going down.

But so um eventually, if uh both continue on the same on the trajectory that they're on right now, our income tax will eventually uh surpass our uh property tax, which I think is very interesting.

And what does that mean?

Can you play that out for us a little bit?

Yeah, I mean I I can't um uh say exactly what year that would be, but um maybe in 2035, um if you look at our five-year financial forecast, the largest revenue source would no longer be um our property tax.

It would instead be our earned income tax.

So um, but yeah, that that's the way it's uh trending.

So long term, that's uh if things continue uh on the path that they're on right now.

So yeah, but we you know definitely um you know like uh to grow our uh both sources, you know, um attracting uh more residents, um, you know getting higher property values and so uh therefore collecting more taxes.

So things within our control, perhaps, but some things out of our control, like a a countywide reassessment would certainly change the change it sum.

I know there's an anti-windfall provision, but change that some correct okay.

Um my last question really is uh I know there's been a lot of concern about the uh overtime expenses for the draft and what we're paying versus what we're um reaping, and I think we all know that um in terms of many of the the taxes and the fees, the county will reap the benefit, you know, hospitality tax, for instance.

But um will the city just want to ask, will the city be fully reimbursed for overtime that we incur during the draft?

Um I can't say um positively uh whether we will or not.

I know that um we are getting two million dollars from visit Pittsburgh, so uh we will be using that to reimburse over time and other costs, but um I I don't know uh what those costs will be yet.

Okay, so to to be determined to be different carbon.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

I think that exhausts my questions.

Anything else from council members?

Yes, Councilman Mosley.

Yeah, you just uh peak my pique my interest um with the conversation we just had about uh the differentiation of uh income tax revenue versus property tax revenue.

If you could kind of, you know, and I'm asking you to look a little bit you know into the future, but you said, you know, potentially about 2035.

I was just throwing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just hypothetically, we understand that we're not, you know, this is none of the things that we're talking about is carved.

And stone, but I would just be interested to hear from your perspective.

You look at a year like 2015, which is much more of a traditional year, in any year like 2015, just ballpark figures.

How much of a percentage of revenue was property tax versus the percentage of revenue that would come from income tax versus what it would look like in a year like 2035 when potentially income tax could then um be more than the property tax.

That's a great question.

I don't have those figures right here, but I could certainly get those for you.

Okay.

Yeah, that is a good question.

That would be an interesting comparison.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Gross.

Just because these numbers are so tiny in front of us, but so let me confirm this.

But so even last year.

And earned income tax was 141 million.

So they were nearly equal last year.

On a revenue of 658 million.

So neither is real estate tax is you know 20 percent of revenue?

Barely?

I mean I remembered very distinctly thinking of it as like half of revenue.

And it is way down there now.

Yeah, I I feel like I remember like around 40 percent.

Yeah.

But I would have to I I would want to look back and get something.

So again, not do you know, not doing super great math in my head or anything, but yeah.

I mean, 145 million um and total revenue is you know, almost 700 million.

It's not you, it's not even it's 658 million.

But so yeah, it's really not what you think of, right?

And then earned income tax.

I mean, I'm just gonna guess that's because honestly, we have people with high incomes now.

We certainly don't have more people.

Right.

Um and so we know our area median income has gone up.

And I think that's what reflects a higher earned income.

If I can jump in, the budgeted amount, and I can look back for actuals.

Budgeted real estate tax revenue was 133 million dollars, and earned income was eighty-seven million.

Why is that on your chart on your first page?

Different numbers?

That was for 2015.

To to answer that councilman mostly.

The earned income was half as much as it is now.

Correct.

So what were the numbers again?

Sorry.

Uh so real estate for 2015, this is the budgeted amount.

2015 was 133 million, and then earned income was 87 million.

And we can follow up with actuals.

Whereas our property taxes went up by maybe 40 million.

Um definitely a much smaller increase.

Right.

And we really don't know what's gonna happen.

Right.

With the reassessment.

It's there's lots of prognostication about it, but it's it kind of you know, it used to be a kind of clearer picture before COVID, before the downtown central business district's values across the country took a huge hit.

Right, right.

When they were like steady, then you would be like, okay, well, we know we have residential areas that have increased a lot in property value that haven't been reassessed, and so maybe that's going to be really higher revenue, but now we have both some areas being lower and some areas being higher.

So it's it's hard.

That's like no, we talked before about how difficult it is to forecast expenditures over the five years.

I think it's almost even harder to forecast revenues over five years.

Um and our finance department does a fantastic job, but there's just so many variables that are hard to predict, like you were talking about.

Right.

Okay.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

No, this is great.

This is this is uh a lot of the daylighting of what's we've talked about in the in these in these, you know, ta financial task force meetings, which uh probably still will have a a point and uh a reason for meeting, but um it's just with more brain power here, you know.

Um more more brains putting together.

I do I I I I do want to call on you.

I just wanted to note that council person Charlotte reminded me that before the tax increase um earned income was supposed to surpass real estate last year.

Oh, okay.

So that's what that was something that he noted.

Okay, Council President.

Um I forgot my question.

Sorry, that's okay.

Um, one question was how are we accounting for the potential repayment of chalk tax?

Um we have that budgeted in uh well, that is an amendment, okay.

Um it's I don't have that actual uh amendment number here, but it's under law, under judgments.

So we're requesting to add um uh do some quick calcul.

About close to eight million dollars in twenty twenty-six, and that's for both.

Because we've almost already expended that last year.

Yes.

Okay.

I I recall that conversation now.

Thank you.

Um and then do we know if we have any outstanding reimbursements when we talk about downtown to any of the properties?

Because of the appealed their assessments.

Um I would have to um check with uh director Gula on that.

All right.

That's it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any further questions?

Okay, I think we've exhausted our special standing committee's agenda.

As a reminder, these bills we will be on tomorrow's standing committee's meeting.

And so with that, I will take we will leave these bills open and I will take a motion to approve the minutes and adjourn the meeting.

So move second.

All in favor?

Meeting is adjourned.