How do we give us a h do we give us a h idea.

I mean it's like land block, but all the characters are land on it feels like that.

That seems like in limited exactly.

Okay, there's all our panels.

Is it impressive?

You're having that many.

You're up at Glenstone.

Yeah.

I mean, if you've been there, there was this model of Mr.

Rogers' neighborhood.

So I can open up.

Good morning, everybody.

This is the May 14th, 2026 meeting of the Urban Design Committee.

All community order.

This secretary, I turn it over to you to talk about uh public comment and participation.

It's uh to access the meeting by uh Microsoft Teams.

Please use the link available on the agenda.

Public comment will be requested in turn for each item on the agenda.

Please stay on mute during other times to reduce background noise.

If you're using a phone to access the meeting, you can use star six to mute and unmute yourself.

Thank you.

Roll call.

Yes.

Uh O'Donnell here.

Clark?

Here.

And Yarty.

Here.

Doyle?

Yeah.

Here.

Gabber?

Here.

McKenzie.

And Inwitch?

Here.

Pearson is online.

We can vote him to allow him to attend online once we take the road.

Okay.

We hunt is absolutely bootsma.

And Mr.

Hemna is there.

Yeah, we can do it.

Thank you.

Would someone like to motion uh to allow Mr.

Pearson to participate virtually?

I like to motion to allow Mr.

Person to participate virtually.

Motion by Mr.

Hammond.

Is there a second?

Second by Mrs.

Clark.

All in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Any abstentions.

Thanks for joining us, Mr.

Pearson.

Appreciate it.

Do you mind reviewing the approval of minutes?

Yes.

A high-level summary statement will be provided before voting on a final motion for each individual item.

The summary statement will be transmitted through the planning commission along with the motion outcome and be recorded as minutes for the record.

Thank you.

Secretary's report.

1707 of the city charter, it's general location, character, extent, approval of public buildings, structures, streets, parks, etc.

Items of a specific nature that are designed by professionals, such as engineers, architects are not considered general.

And 17.05, the UDC may make recommendations on specific design public structures, appurtenances, and street fixtures.

Thank you.

Nothing on the consent agenda.

One item on the regular agenda, that's UDC 2026-06, uh conceptual location character and accent review of a new riverside park located at 3021 Dock Street.

Mr.

Secretary Terry, I'll turn it over to you.

Yes.

I'm gonna read the proposed conditions and then allow the applicant to jump straight into the presentation.

Uh the applicant has a time crunch uh that they've requested to do so.

Uh staff recommends the applicant identify potential locations for art installations for final review.

And staff recommends the applicant include dark sky compliant or similar lighting where appropriate for final review.

Uh the art installation is anticipation of our editing of the um our our guidelines for when they come back.

We'll probably be in there by the time they come back.

Um, something we kind of talked about for a while.

Uh and the dark sky compliance is just your standard condition.

And that's all I've got.

Yeah, thank you.

Happy to take their uh presentation.

On the screen in just a second.

Good morning, everyone.

I'm Lisa Richardson, deputy director for Capital Improvements with Arctic Recreation.

We are pleased today to introduce to you the conceptual plans for Dock Street Park.

We've been working on these with Marvel Architects for a couple of years now.

After several rounds of engagement.

So here to present that to you is Tyler Savestro.

And so I can go ahead and turn it to you.

Ray, are you clicking?

Yes.

Okay.

You can go ahead.

Next slide.

Thanks.

Perfect.

So my name is Tyler Silvestro.

I'm a partner with Marvel and a landscape architect who's been working with CRPS for a few years now.

I live in the 7th district, and this park is just down the street from me.

And when I moved here, it looked as if it had for the past 30 years, which is kind of vacant, desolate, isolated, behind a fence.

But it had this really cool quality of being kind of the forefront to the riverfront.

And so we've always been really enamored by that.

So when we learned 2023 that the land was being purchased, that it's really exciting to see that there was some movement there, and that set up a chain reaction of a bunch of other things, many of whom in the room know exactly what I'm talking about.

But it essentially set off a timeline for the park to be open on conditions with also a building being constructed adjacent to it, which is the JRA or the Buzzard Center, which is there and open uh and active now.

But all that to say is that from February until April of 2024, there was kind of a really fast-paced uh design um uh kind of phase, which is really to try to get the park open as quickly as possible, have it adhere to all the easement requirements uh of which there are several particularly related to permeability, which we'll get into today.

Um, but this was really a fun and fast kind of arid process to get to the beginning of an interim phase, which was built over the course of just a few months uh almost entirely by the James River Park System staff.

Um so a huge bravo to them, and they're still doing they're doing it literally right now on Bell Isle.

It's just besides besides the point from this discussion, which JRPS is doing to create spaces like this is just truly remarkable.

So that's what happened last year up until July of 2024.

Uh the park has been open effectively ever since.

Um, but there's been certain things kind of going on in the interim.

There's been uh uh solarization to try to reduce the amount of Johnson grass on the site, which is uh entirely covering the site uh at current at present, barring the area that's been under remediation.

Um there's work right now underway.

I don't know if anyone's been there recently, but there's a massive hole in the middle of the park, which we'll look at today too.

Um that stuff is kind of still ongoing, but all hopefully done uh soon enough to so that when the next phase, the final phase of Dock Street Park becomes implemented, that'll mostly be taken care of.

So I'll walk through this presentation today, and yes, we are in a time crunch, so I will try to go fast.

There's a lot of slides, right?

So just if you just keep going, I'll catch up with you and vice versa.

Um so we are in a tidal zone at Dock Street Park.

Um James River is especially in Richmond, particularly fascinating because we are at the fall line where we have a riverine portion and a tidal portion all kind of coalescing around Mayo Island.

Um, so they're just very different qualities of public spaces and of riverine uh ecology throughout the whole area.

So at Dock Street Park, we have tidal flow, which when you go down there uh probably today, you probably don't see much of a sandbar because of the recent rains, but oftentimes there's a sandbar at low tide and just slightly covering that at high tide.

Next slide.

Um it's a very historic space.

It's always been because it's tidal, it's been kind of the end kind of eastern.

I'm sorry, western terminus of the James River in terms of navigable waters.

Uh so as to why Richmond was founded here and why this view was so important to Richmond from Libby Hill Park.

Next slide.

Um, you just see that that's an area that had kind of taken roots, not just as a place of founding, but a place of uh commerce.

And so rocket landing, the activation of the riverfront, which you still see remnants of today.

Um still kind of there's still little bits and pieces of what's there.

There's sugar pad, there's you know, flat waterfront spaces that have been kind of uh made impervious.

Um and dock street Park is no different.

It was a concrete plant for many years, uh, which is why digging in the soil and the site itself is quite flat, and uh below the surface is a lot of impermeable um materials left over.

Next slide.

Um yeah, you can keep going.

Next slide.

So this is where we are today, you know, being adjacent to Dock Street Park or being uh adjacent to the buzzard center has really kind of created the visual accessibility to the park that wasn't quite there before, both from the building, but also from uh frequent users, at trail riders, uh walkers and bikers, um, all that kind of we've been thinking of this area as kind of a confluence, and that the center of this park itself is really a confluence.

Next slide, please, where all this activation and all this activity kind of meets and mingles.

Um, bikers, riders, fishermen, uh, boaters, educators, everyone's kind of coming to this park.

Um, not because they've been parked there, but because it's a it's a node on a much larger trail system.

Next slide.

Um we've been thinking not just at the site itself, next slide, but we've been kind of looking at it just holistically is what else can happen here, what are the vulnerabilities?

There's a lot to see a lot of flooding, historic and present, not too different.

Um the site itself kind of uh lands itself down towards as it as it heads uh south, it slopes down towards the intermediate terminal building.

So that's this building red.

Everything here kind of slopes slightly back up until it gets over to the towards the uh great ship lock.

So this area is a little bit drier, a little bit higher, at least it was in the 2024 floods.

Next slide.

Um but as we know today, most days it is dry and it's a place that could be really interesting, really unique, particularly to the 7th district that doesn't have a lot of physical water access, uh and something that we've been trying to find ways of achieving through accessibility inclusivity to get people to the waterfront.

Next slide.

Um we can come back to this.

I know this question was brought up uh in the lead up to this meeting.

Um there's a lot being achieved with this park in this plan.

Some things that cannot be.

Let's go to the next slide.

I think a slide is here coming up about what we can and cannot do within this park.

Um, but thinking of where it is and understanding the historic kind of reverence it must be to the great shiplock park, um, to the river itself, Tancaro's landing.

These are all kind of proximities and adjacencies that we're really trying to think about.

Uh, and particularly as it relates to parking.

And I know parking, we should talk about that a little bit.

Parking is not uh something that we're aiming to achieve here for many reasons, but there are we think other strategies like holistic strategies that city can look at for parking accessibility and access to the park.

Next slide.

Um you can keep going, right?

We got a lot of slides to go through.

Um, so here's where we are today.

This is an aerial taken uh early last year.

You see areas just just squint your eyes, you can see areas that are kind of a little bit drier.

Um this was during a drought, but there's also low points, there's high points, it's kind of a lot of micro topography going on in this park, and we're trying to make sure that that we're being responsive to the topography with the planting strategies that we're trying to deploy, as well as ways in which we try to get down and uh cast shade, all of all these things are considerations in how we kind of address the design of the park.

Next slide.

This was our starting point.

This is maybe the most instructive slide we've we've kind of have today and have been using in the office, which are the constraints.

There are uh there is a underground easement uh utility line that runs through almost almost diagonally through the entire park.

There's the property line, which goes to here.

Uh there's the riparian buffer, and there's also the fact that this whole park's in a floodway.

So there's just kind of a baseline that there's a lot of things we cannot create here.

Um, can't build buildings, no septic, no really, you know, not really trying to do any underground utilities of any kind, um, access to water, bathrooms.

A lot of these things have come up in the community engagement that we've we've had, but only so many things are really possible here, particularly in the rivering uh sorry, the riparian 35-foot riparian buffer.

Um, which if we were to take a deep dive, that's the main takeaway is that impermeable surfaces are not really uh desired there.

They should be minimized if if at all, if used at all, except for areas that allow for uh dock access.

So this is the 15-foot dock easement.

There's an ability to get to this dock for reasons uh that we'll show in the design, but that to get there, there's an allowance for imperial surfaces, which we'll we'll talk about.

Next slide.

Uh you can keep going.

Just kind of images of where it's at.

Uh, this is the hole I mentioned that's under construction.

The pile has gotten much, much bigger.

Um, but potentially there's some useful material in that pile, which we'll talk about too.

Uh, this is the area that was under remediation through solarization uh late last year and into this year.

Next slide.

Uh we have been going to the community both in C2 and also uh through online surveys and through direct engagement with community board seven.

Next slide.

Um this is just kind of a recap of what we saw.

Next slide.

Honestly, this comes up every time.

If you're in the site and you're just you know standing a hundred yards away from the river, it's clear to people that they just want to be able to get there.

You can literally stand on this park and see the river, but between you and it, there's about a 13-foot drop and a very severe steep slope.

Um, and as at present, you can't even see down to the dock until you're either standing directly over it or you kind of walk down the stairs to get there.

So there's there's a real kind of psychological barrier and a visual barrier between yourself, you know, as a parkour and the riverfront right now.

So this is something we're taking into consideration here.

Shaded areas, places to relax, um, stormwater planting, creating trail systems and expanding the trail system.

These are uh kind of the top priorities for the park.

Next slide.

Uh Nisa presenting an image I'll show in a minute.

But this was uh just recently back in March, uh, a meeting at uh on 25th Street at the hub in C in the district seven uh where we showed the model and kind of got more direct feedback from the community um who were not present at the site or maybe had didn't maybe miss the online survey.

Next slide.

Um so here we are.

This model and this plan are kind of where we have for conceptual uh review.

And the main things I'd say is that, and you'll see this in the renderings that the get down is probably the biggest engineering move here.

Everything else, although it looks all new and shiny, is dealing with current and existing topography as much as possible.

It's really a planting plan with pads.

The path system is generally this way today.

So it's not the goal is not to completely uh renovate what's already been built, but it's to kind of enhance it, and that's with various pieces of programming, um, more park-like amenities like tables and chairs and hamlets, uh, bringing in more space for educational purposes that can kind of do be dual programmed with the James uh with the Buzzard River Center, as well as just finding these little kind of interesting moments, which we'll see a couple images of, such as a repurposing of this old concrete structure, possibly for kind of a lookout or a get out.

Whereas, you know, just a couple steps away on the other side, this is now barred off because it's kind of a dangerous and dislocated uh location to go fishing.

Next slide.

Um so we're doing that while being very cognizant of the views from Louis Hill, but also to be cognizant of the views just to the riverfront generally.

So as I mentioned before, the view down to the dock is kind of impeded by the severity of this existing slope, which you see here.

We're trying to kind of peel that down in a way that kind of follows sight lines deeper into the park and deeper up to Dock Street.

And of course, you know, you see a couple trees along this line, but generally the idea is to not do anything major to impede any views from Louie Hill.

Next slide.

Some precedents and ideas.

Just trying to figure out ways to include either existing stone, which you you have we have now noticed have been unearthed from this big dig, that there's a lot of stone in there that can be repurposed just there right on site, which would be really neat, or finding ways to repurpose stone as we see in other parts of the park, other parts of the country, um, be it in I think it's Memphis, this looks like Troy, a couple other places.

Just trying to kind of infuse something that doesn't feel foreign to the waterfront here in Richmond, but something that kind of works with it.

Next slide.

Breaking this part down into these general locations is the confluence.

This is where we feel that is kind of the epicenter of the park or the kind of the density, the gravity pulls you in towards the center.

Next slide.

Looking at discovery gardens or places for kind of more uh a wider age range of engagement.

Right now, typically you go there on any given day, you usually see people who are either starting or ending a run or a bike ride.

Um so there's kind of an age uh gap that's there that feels a little minimal, and we're looking for other ways to expand uh the opportunities for more people of various ages to join and enjoy the park.

Next slide.

Uh, and then the fourth edge.

There is a mature forest edge here.

Uh there's some sycamores and some black cherry uh and some hawthorn in the site.

Uh we're looking to take advantage of that, particularly in the afternoon when that shade uh starts to cast over the park itself, and maybe even clearing out the understory so that there's a better viewcorder to the river.

Next slide.

Um, moving a little faster here.

So now there's this rivering edge, which has much mature tree level.

There's a lot of invasive undergrowth in both these areas that we're looking at.

Um ways to kind of open that up and work with the invasive species task force and JRPS to make that happen.

Um, a lot of the trees, the trees in orange, we've kind of maintained and worked around.

Um we did remove a lot of invasive stuff, but what's in orange has remained its native and uh wanted to keep it.

We also got uh a gift essentially from uh the JRA of a surplus of trees that they had on site to find a new home in Dock Tree Park.

So a lot of trees have actually planted 15.

I had that backwards, orange are the new ones, 15 new trees, 27 existing uh trees which now have more room and space uh and sunlight to grow.

So there's already an ecology happening right now, and we're just gonna look to add to that.

Slide.

Um kind of a horticultural strategy over the years of of invasive species removal maintenance, kind of bringing things down just to start to kind of deploy a much more resilient sustainable ecosystem.

Next slide.

Uh we can we can so some of these are the trees that we've been putting in the river birch, uh, black gum, um, willow is there, mulberries there, uh, and we're gonna look to kind of keep replenishing the understory and start to grow a little bit of a river and forested edge.

Next slide.

Um, same with the shrub layer.

Next slide.

Um, this is really deep into it, but basically, we're looking to create uh based on the kind of microclimate conditions of being adjacent to the river, low points, wet feed points, a little bit higher in drier areas.

We've really looked at all this, took a very deep dive with DCR and CRLC and the invasive species task force to land on this uh plant matrix, which is still evolving.

So if you have questions about this, we'd love to hear them.

But this is something that's still under development.

Next slide.

With the goal being that we're gonna try to find ways, uh, this is the tree layer, but the next slide um shows how we're gonna try to move these in here.

I just self-critical here.

I think we're maybe overcomplicating some of the forms, but I think that we're gonna try to find ways to include that range of species so that there is a real diversity in plant life uh and ecology on the site.

Next slide.

Um, and then for kind of the hardscape elements of the paths.

Um, there are gravel paths today.

We're not aiming to change that, so we're aiming to keep permeability throughout the majority of the circulation network.

Find ways to have kind of more joyful moments of exploration, such as the reclaimed granite stepping stones, hop through the low points, which will be likely often wet.

That could potentially turn into a boardwalk and lead out to an overlook.

And then engineer wood fiber or mulch in areas of kind of more regular activation, like picnic areas in the hammock group.

Next slide.

And then for the furnishing, which is kind of a strange word for this one, but because a lot of this is kind of reclaimed granite to act as either stairs or erosion control measures in the hillside or even as kind of an informal gathering space in the confluence.

That we're using this both for reasons of durability but also availability and low cost uh ways of creating these spaces, with also the inclusion of uh accessible picnic areas, um JRPS style benches, um, potentially tool bank inclusion of picnic tables and benches, as well as uh standard bike rags.

Um yeah, next slide.

Uh and then last thing, just before we show the last kind of couple images, this is what we have spent a lot of time on.

A lot of this area, this area specifically, is something we don't aim to do anything engineering-wise.

We're trying to limit the amount of um disturbance that happens along the river's edge.

So this area is one where we're just gonna look to kind of clean out uh the invasive species understory layer uh while keeping the overstory of sycamore and other native rivering plants to keep that shade cast in here and not to have the whole park start fresh.

And then the next slide is showing the section of the get down area, which you can see is a bit of engineering work because you can see the existing grade in the dashed line, but that is coming down and that the spoils or the earthwork from that is gonna be tested, but hopefully repurposed into the park to create more kind of miniature uh uh topographic moves such as the area and the confluence with the burn.

But that this is what brings the experience from what used to be only from standing here, look at the waterfront much deeper in uh into the park where even in the confluence area you still get the experience of being adjacent to the river, and that's the goal.

Next slide.

Um so just some imagery.

Uh I just wanted to highlight that I think that this is again kind of a big critical move, which is this path down, um, not dissimilar from what JRPS has occurred has created at um Huguenot and other locations of getting an accessible path to the river to the existing dock, which is there and waiting to be used more heavily while also starting to kind of feel back the invasive species of Johnson grass and starting to do a kind of multi-year, like this is not an immediate, this is a very long-term multi-year uh ecological restoration planting strategy.

It's not immediate, but we just want to emphasize that this is this looks pretty, but it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of volunteer work and a lot of JRPS staff hours to get things to this level.

But this is what's there today, which is why it's such a unique project because it's already kind of happening as we speak.

Um, but this is the this is the general direction that the park is gonna go.

And then the last slide is an image from down the dock and the models here in case you want to take a closer look.

But want to thank you for your time.

Appreciate it.

Any questions for Mr.

Sebastian?

Mr.

Hamden.

Um, where is the small boat knowledge?

One slide showed it at the upstream side of the dock, and one uh one slide showed it at the downstream side.

Yeah, uh, it's the downstream side, or it likely will be the downstream side because the upstream side has a fair amount.

I think this image is great.

Let me go back to that real quick.

The map, the aerial shows where there's sedimentation accumulating right now.

And so this area actually is really difficult to launch anything.

Okay, it's very easy to hop down and just be there.

But for a boat, I think the further west or the further south we go, the more likely we get in.

That's a conversation that's been ongoing with uh folks at the buzzer center as to how what actually get down is.

If is it a floating pier?

Uh, is it a metal ramp?

We haven't landed on that yet, but ideally that's the location where it'll be.

Good work.

Um, I'm just wondering how the um how the eddy will work so that you're not launching a boat in a moving water.

And I'm not sure how fast the curtain is there, but I imagine there's still some.

There's some.

Um, it's pretty well protected in a uh as the water is receding because of Chapel Island.

That's pretty tame there.

I think I mean that's why all this is has accumulated here because the water's now swiftly pushing this way.

I'm not sure about the hydrodynamics here, but it's it's certain that this is this kind of functions more like a beach right now.

So water's not moving very swiftly in this whole area, at least from what I've seen.

Sounds like it's on your radar.

Yeah.

Any other questions, Ms.

Corn?

I love your your planting and the thoughtfulness that has gone into it.

I just have two questions.

Um, one is I didn't see any uppergreen trees like American Holly or Pine Tree, which is for winter interest in the park.

Um, and then also um there was a lot of uh purple cone flower planted everywhere, which I love and it kind of does so well, but maybe you could add some early blooming perennials like golden alexanders or golden ragwork and also late uh early fall, like Asters and Goldenrod, and just in the mix, just to provide the wild life that will be coming to the park.

Okay, um and then um with the addition of another park in the James River Park system.

Are you hiring another staff person to maintain the park, particularly in its early phases?

Somebody with horticulture knowledge and then somebody else to keep the park clean and weed as new plants are being established.

I'd be curious what our friends in the front row have to say about that.

Lisa Richardson, Deputy Director Captain.

Um, what a lovely problem to have, right?

Keep adding um new parks into our system uh and have to think about hiring it as part of the plan to to do that and include that in future budget requests so as we onboard these parts, we can get staff out there to keep it clean and well maintained in terms of landscaping and then our friends of groups and our other nonprofit partners who are in that space and um conduct a lot of volunteer day events to help maintain weed, you know, things like that.

We also rely on them.

So it's it's kind of a everybody coming together to take care of our parks.

It's good.

Um yeah, can you hear me?

Hello.

Can you hear us?

I hear you.

Go ahead and we can hear you.

Okay.

Um I guess I mean, first of all, I wanted to commend everybody.

I think this is great, and this is a long overdue improvement to our city.

Um, I did want to ask, I'm sort of struggling with the dock and just coming at it from the perspective of someone who has hauled canoes uh to put ins many, many times.

I don't I don't really understand how that's possible with this improvement, and it it's not even necessarily a parking thing, it's just a distance thing.

Um, I mean, I see maybe a drop-off there off of Dock Street, which maybe the intention is that you could pull your truck in or something there and then drag your canoe.

I it seems like an extremely long distance down a ramp to a dock that's got a rail.

Uh so maybe if someone could talk about the intended use of the dock, whether or not it's intended for boats or not.

What the is it kayakers, etc., and how it's envisioned to be used.

Um thanks, Damon.

I think it's not entirely clear.

That's a good question because there is the there's the potential partner of the new resident of this park, which is the buzzer center, who do have boats.

They have a lot of boats there, but it obviously not everyone's coming to borrow a boat.

People want to get their own in there.

I don't know that there's a conversation that's yet been had with the buzzer centers if there could be a drop off in their parking area their parking drop-off zone.

If that could be used publicly or not I'm not totally sure but it's worth talking about and thinking about um because at present even though you can't see my finger but just north of the James Buzzard center there's a what looks to be a path that's kind of an unofficial path today.

But it's possible that if that were official that the width of the turnaround in uh great shiplock park could be a place for the drop off.

I see that as being just eyeballing it maybe that's the closest location for public drop off.

Um and then the goal the idea of the ramp itself was to extend in the way that it is in this design to get you as close towards the parking area as possible.

So that that's always been intentional to try to bring the the actual physical ramp up in that direction rather than the other direction where no one's coming from um but it's a good question.

It's maybe in a something that should be discussed between parks and the buzzer center um because I think that's right.

And honestly it's possible even that the deeper into the buzzer center parking lot area might actually be beneficial drop offs or or maybe there's a time to drop off but we will float these questions uh to the neighbors the neighbors could hear this hand note here if the neighbors could hear that uh you now have a boat bike uh conflict with the capital trail coming through that chip on park seems like a four downstream in the dock street park extension seems like a better fit there because nobody's going to be paying attention to everybody else on this room yeah stretch and this discussion is what kind of generated my team to think like we need to think maybe a larger picture of access and and parking through kind of through this whole section um the great difference between the street and this park uh my team was kind of thinking it would be too difficult to actually pick up any parking on this site is where we're kind of thinking maybe a larger and maybe some concern of the buzzard sooner being used unofficially by people on weekend uh to drop off their boats um if that's something that wants to be happened or doesn't want it to be happened some thoughts yeah that's a good question that we've also had a lot of uh communication with the capital trail and um in terms of alignment and they have they're very kind of they know their alignment where they want it to be and we we tested a few other options to keep it from going through what we felt was a conflict zone of the drop off and kind of logistics vehicular logistics in the buzzard center.

But that's that's where it's always been planned to go.

So we didn't have a lot of power on ship on shifting that idea this is where it's landed um I do think that's a great question though and to your point um having it maybe be formalized in another location would eliminate conflicts or as many conflicts as we're likely to see the language in here um so I heard you talk about that uh you've got limits on permeability and the existing paths are are crushed stone or they stone dust or gonna stay crushed stone with the with the flood and prevalence in there um that seems like a big maintenance issue um is there any chance that these could be a little bit can still be permeable but could be hardened either a permeable asphalt or permeable concrete or something it also affects the accessibility because I'm not sure that that's technically an accessible material to get down to the dock so and it won't take much of a storm to to really start running this stuff up and and um and and washing it away the dock um the dock paving, we're looking at it different at a more hard hardened solution.

For the ADA, A RAM.

Okay.

So that wouldn't be stone dust or 57 or eight or whatever the topping material might be uh we were looking to do that in the path work, particularly because we've actually seen a few high waters now.

And because it's not a high velocity flood zone, it's actually just kind of like a bathtub up and down that there hasn't been so much.

Right.

But it's it's something we're studying, particularly in the riparian zone and particularly at the lower levels at the southern edge, because that's where the water really kind of creeps in.

But the path we're looking to harden possibly with actually just concrete and get a uh variance in the riparian buffer through the language that CRLC is written.

Um to allow that to be something that is much more resilient to flooding.

So it's more of a it's more of a CLRC issue than it is a uh stormwater issue.

It was something that was put into the the for the for the paving type.

Yeah, yeah, we'll have to sit like in this process we've kind of run things by them, particularly as it relates to anything that might come into question, but the easement um that's absolutely one of them.

So I assume in the next in the next round of design, we'll have samples in front of them and we'll have samples in front of you that demonstrate what uh what is the permeability level of all the different paving types in the uh no, it's just been an issue in a lot of the parks, right?

I mean, certainly Bell Isle gets wiped out when there's a flood just because of the velocity for sure.

But um, you know, Monroe Park tried the stone dust, and that was an absolute disaster.

And um, so just not trying to put more maintenance on whenever there's there's a flood or or a heavy storm, which we seem to be getting a lot more of these days um to make the park much more resilient.

So anyway, something to definitely think about.

Okay, otherwise I think the plan is great.

I really think this is a great asset or a great addition to the uh to the park system.

Thank you.

It's open.

Sorry, Hamnet.

Here, sorry.

Somebody else have you about to ask a question.

Yeah, but that's okay.

I can wait.

No, go on.

Uh, so has there been some consideration about how to keep bikes out of the non-capital trail parts of this park?

I don't know if that's like a person in a giant sturgeon costume or something saying your oil model what the thought is on while there's a public space.

There's a giant sturgeon sculpture right there, we could just kind of drop it and move it.

I just wonder if if there's enough sensibility from an exhausted cyclist to wants to go see the river to not cruising through here.

It's it's you know what's funny is I've I've been curious about that too.

There's something about the speed that you move through here.

It's just no one wants to go into the park there, and it's because it's like a it's also it feels a little bit like a construction entrance, and we'll revisit this from ADA perspective, but it's it's where there's some thick cobble or or rock.

So it like as anyone who's riding the this trail, likely on some thinner ball wheels.

They're not they don't want to go in there, okay.

At least I don't, and then so because of the angularity of all the entrances, it's not it's not common that people enter in those two points.

This area, that's not currently swooped that way.

We've been I've been told by many friends of mine that we should really swoop it in because right now it comes in and it right angles in right like this does, and right now it's a deer path.

So the deer path is being created by runners who just want to get into the park.

Um we think the change in surface is just kind of enough right now to keep people from flying in there, but then again, the paths are quite wide, and I could imagine a mountain biker wanting to take a quick detour as long as they're not bombing through, it feels like it's okay, it's a shared use path.

Um, particularly the main path, which I believe is 12 feet wide for maintenance purposes.

So we just haven't seen it.

And we'll keep this the best thing about this interim park is that we've been able to kind of study it and observe it live and maybe make adjustments as we go to the plan for the final.

Thank you.

But if you want to, if you do have a sturgeon costume, if you're in possession of that, I'll wear it next one.

Let's see that's give me.

Uh I know you went fast, but I love how thorough your presentation was.

So thank you.

Um I have a couple questions.

One is kind of a blend of your question and Damon's question about the access to the accessible path.

So if you are is it an accessible path all the way to a drop-off point, or is it just from the gravel path down to the dock?

It's accessible to the parking lots.

And the cat trail.

Yeah, yeah.

The it's um, sorry, keeping it.

No, no, that's banned.

Okay, the the we've now been working with JRPS and because this question comes up a lot because there's various finishes on the on the dust buildups.

That detail you've seen in a couple ways, and we've been looking at this for Mayo too, and Mayo, we need to make accessible, but also it needs to be permeable.

So it's it's in like the layers which we'll have in the final review.

The top layer specifically is a certain amount of crush that allows for wheeled accessibility at a certain slope.

Um, but again, these are things that kind of need to be maintained over time because when they're not maintained and dust moving around, or if there's flood waters, you end up getting that stone dust kind of goes away, and then what you're left with are much more kind of crude surfacing when it's no longer accessible.

I mean, you can't fool anyone when that happens.

So right now the goal is for everything in tan to be accessible up to and including the ramp and dock.

Um, so that's the hope of all we can keep noodling on that before the final.

Uh, second question is lighting and trash collection.

If that's something, if that's a layer you guys have talked about yet, just what your instincts are.

Do we have the we might have receptacles in our furnishing plan?

Uh it's absolutely part of the plan.

I'm sorry, lighting we have not dealt with, and we may not be providing.

Um, we typically keep um our parks dark.

Um, and they can open on close dusk something.

Okay, yeah.

Same plan here.

And then finals kind of a comment more than a question, because I think this looks beautiful.

It's kind of a mix between like a front porch and a park.

Um, but as with every presentation on a park, I want to urge wildness on the river just to keep it feeling Richmond so it doesn't feel like corporate, and I think that's really in like form and edge condition and how the landscape integrates, but I'd love for you to keep that in mind.

Mr.

Hannett's question about the the path on the closest to Dobbs Street that comes onto the capital trail.

Is that meant to I'm not sure if the cat yeah, no, right straight up from there, yeah.

Does that feed that part of the Capital Trail meant to be also pedestrian, multi-use pedestrian oriented, or is that feeding walkers onto that straightaway bike area?

That's that would be my thought of not funneling walkers onto that straightway that people come quickly around on the bend.

I don't see it's I don't see a city sidewalk there that it would connect to.

So I don't know what the purpose of that would be.

Yeah.

Well, all the capital trails multiple multi-use, and and there are a lot of walkers on that stretch.

Yeah, we thought of that that particular uh spur as a release valve from the park.

I'm sorry, from the from the capital trail.

Yeah, we it was kind of one of these things where this area is is so it's actually visually isolated from Dock Tree because it's all beneath this retaining wall.

So this area is kind of hidden.

We felt like it might be nice to have some kind of a release valve from that area that's dark at night um into the park into over open space.

Can't really think of all the ways in which that would be what would happen there, but it was essentially like a uh catch all and particularly and also potentially for those who are kind of on the cat trail and maybe realized that they didn't they missed their entrance and then as opposed to running from here all the way down and back that they might want to cut in.

It was kind of a another like a redundant option of park entry, um, particularly in an area that's kind of sight unseen from above.

The other uh the other idea, this goes to a question we're gonna try to answer for the final, maybe have some discussions.

Hypothetically speaking, if there was parking elsewhere in the area, because this we know that's not working for the park, and if this park were really accessible and used by a lot more people.

There's never this is gonna be premium parking.

There's virtually no parking over here.

So you get to here, there's the intermediate terminal, all that stuff.

If there were parking somehow incorporated into stone or to the full and gas work site, suddenly this is where people are entering through.

Seeing the park for the first time from this point, this is the closest entrance.

So that was another idea of that if you came down here as a walker as opposed to walking along the cab trail to here you can take a quicker it's like shortcut into the park.

But that's a bigger conversation.

I'm glad Ray asked that question lead up to this because we have been thinking about a bigger more exhaustive parking study because we all know difficult or GRTC stop or something.

Yeah and there is one now here I guess so but even that I mean that's another kind of potential point of entry from here to the park this is the ADA accessible route and stair down there's a stair here but that's not accessible and otherwise you're going all the way around so let's say this park was built and it's a hit we expect people to come from all directions and we're not totally sure the capacity of the parking currently I wasn't no to ask that question clearly because I don't get it I just answered in a bunch of ways but there was logic behind that um there's two has the fire department bugged you about access to the water not yet surprisingly just wondering where their closest access I guess Ancaros would be of for water water right there.

Yeah and Caro's a spot for the drop in now I don't know that this would be one of this I brought up access on numerous projects and they have their very specific existing now like their spots on the you're talking about the zodiacs and stuff that are those those big wraps that they want to yeah I guess usually it's saying Caros for South.

Thank you.

Mr Sylvester do you mind touching on this small section of Duck Street Park over here in the thinking behind the the connection to the capital trail in that area it's not in our scope.

Next to the connection to the low line this area yes I want to say that that's maybe that bend doesn't exist I don't know why we drew that but currently we're not aiming to do anything east of the buzzer site um where in anything we do even this area road not in dock street scope because this is an area that was led I believe by the buzzer center for planting purposes it's also the area that's currently under construction for the um infrastructure being built there but yeah east of that we're it's out of our uh limited disturbance.

Can I just add to that from the speed perspective this is I just want to make sure Tyler may not be aware that uh and you are aware as you are tenant right there are the at the buzzard center uh dpu has a project going on there so while it's not in our scope there is um been a question of whether DPU can make an improvement as they finish up the CSO project there to um actually promote this connection to the Capitol Trail um and to I guess um that would be paved greenway eight foot so improving the ADA access so while it's not in our scope the city is going to take that on and has said that they would do that as they finish up that CSO project that's up where is the CSO outflow outflow there?

Well the CSO outflow is right here and currently all of this is under excavation uh so the the site the part that says not in dock street park scope um is right now a massive pit and so as they they leave they're gonna give us a water fountain and a improved connection here which was I think the original intent of the capital trail.

So there will be water on site on the park yes add it again outside of our scope but DPU will be provided.

To clarify um is that is this corner right here included in that.

Can I agree with Tyler I don't know okay?

Thank you.

Any other questions for the applicant?

Make a comment sure this could I know I've mentioned this to you before, but the public art commission is trying to find a use for the fallen gas works steel in public art uh for placemaking and specifically in the 7th district.

So as you're exploring, keep that in mind.

This is physical elements of the gas works.

Like all the steel from the um cage around that thing that went up and down.

Where is that?

It's stored.

It was being, I don't know where it is right now.

I saw it at the gas works site, and I know they saved it for that reason.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

They have a great.

Thank you so much for a very thoughtful conceptual plan for Dock Street Park.

It's been a long time coming.

Um, I'm thrilled that we have reached this stage of the project and look forward to uh future improvements to the park.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Silvestro.

That brings us to public comment.

Is there anybody in the room that would like to provide public comments?

Not seeing anybody.

Is there anybody online that would like to provide public comment?

Please raise your hand.

Not seen anybody.

Okay, public comment is closed.

Would anybody like to make a motion?

Skimmer.

Uh I'll move to accept the plan with staff conditions.

Okay, we have a motion to uh accept the plan with staff conditions.

Is there a second?

Seconded by Mr.

McNardy.

Discussion.

Discussion.

Great.

Okay.

If there's no discussion, I wanted to thank the applicants.

Uh the reason I didn't have any comments was that you guys uh pretty much covered all the comments that we have that anyways.

Thanks.

I'll follow that up with it.

Makes it so easy to just sit here and absorb happily like what's happening in the park system, which you know I've been a rafter for years, and I know the Jans River Park System staff are always spread thin across a huge park, but like what do I have to say when there's so much love going into the project already?

So yeah, great to see.

Also, Bell Isle looks great too.

So thanks.

Oh, there you go.

Something else is about to approve O'Donnell.

Yes, yes, minority.

Yes.

So yes, you know where?

Yeah.

Penin would you?

Yes.

Yes.

And Hannah.

Yes, that is a group.

Okay, thank you all so much.

Thank you.

That brings us to other business, and we um we have a presentation for Mr.

Roach on the urban design guidelines update uh with a focus on the building and architecture section.

Okay.

Uh as I said, and the last meeting, the options for the UDC are to approve what staff has provided.

Provide staff minor comments today, which I can make and then y'all can approve today, or you can ask for changes, um, presumably major relatives or further research from staff to approve at a later date.

But these are the proposals uh to start us all the design buildings and how they interact with the surrounding site and neighborhood can be integral to how users perceive and utilize the building.

Architecture can also be used to highlight the goals of the project and influence how the site is used or even create a landmark and for you pride for communities and so the first section is site selection.

This is site and the general city.

The planning commission and urban design committee are tasked with reviewing the general location character extent, which we all know, public facilities with the purpose of implementing the Richmond 300 master plan.

Richmond 300 Master Plan includes a future land use map, which should be used for general guidance on what uses should be located and what locations.

That map can say parks, it can say industrial, it can say commercial, you know, different things like that.

General sense.

Sites should maximize positive impacts in citizen access while minimizing harm to disadvantaged and historically underinvested communities.

And flexible design approaches can allow co-location of community services and other city functions within one building.

And all of that is supported by goals listed in the master plan.

So we have building placement.

So this is placement on the actual site.

Buildings should respond to surrounding context.

That is something we hear pretty often here at the UDC.

Arrangement should be intentional so buildings enhance connectivity, are conducive to natural movement patterns of pedestrians on site and help people naturally flow internally through the site.

Buildings should be orientated to the primary street.

And orientation can be achieved through architectural interest and detail, facade articulation, window placement and transparency, primary entrance location and landscaping.

And buildings can face south to adapt to passive solar heating.

And I'll do it a little bit further detail on that.

And then we go into the building entrance.

The entrance should be easily recognizable from the street, clearly visible from the street.

And the only thing that I added to this section is that larger buildings, especially buildings that take up an entire block, may need multiple entrances and face multiple street fronts.

The building setback, a new building should typically have the same or similar setback as existing buildings on the same street.

There will be situations, however, where a different setback could be appropriate for the type of building in the desired environment.

For instance, if there's a larger public building, such as a school, recreation center or library or something like that, maybe it makes sense to take up an entire site, an entire block in a neighborhood where many events are captain very often.

And I state we want to discourage the creation of front lawns, underutilized space, you know, not utilized space.

If something is set back, that space should be utilized.

But we're getting at here.

When smaller facilities are located in primarily residential areas, it may be preferable to reflect that surrounding residential area.

The architecture of larger facilities often presents an opportunity to be unique and create instances of community focus and civic pride, maybe go outside of the surrounding architectural general, general architectural, I'm trying to say building height proportion and massing is next.

Building's height, width, and relationship to adjacent structures should appear balanced.

And this is what was already written in their work pretty well.

However, public buildings such as hospital schools, libraries, community centers may be larger, depending on their use and intent, as I was just saying.

We do have zoning in the city.

City originated projects are expected to follow the city zoning code.

There are instances where the requirements of the zoning code may be excused.

So that is something to keep in mind.

And for facade design, the building's facade at ground level is paramount to establishing urban vitality.

Ground level design should be comfortable for the pedestrian.

Again, that is something that was already in there.

And buildings that face home to a Richmond 300 Great Street should provide enhanced treatment of overall architecture and how the building interfaces with the street, and that is coming from the master plan itself.

That's one of its goals.

Most of the main streets are great streets.

So Full Street, Broad Street, Main Street, Erie Street off the top of the head.

Okay, thank you.

Um architectural detail.

Detailing is encouraged to be designed, implemented, and maintained at a human scale.

And this is my new favorite sentence that I'll be efforting through here.

Artistic and whimsical elements and the use of bright coloring are encouraged, especially when related to the purpose of the building.

Art and graphic elements, I did add this section as the art section.

I decided to break art into two different on the building art and then on the site art, which we'll later see the site section of the design guidelines.

This is specifically for the building.

Building-based art and graphical elements are always encouraged on all projects.

If art is provided by the applicant or required by the committee, and that is the hinge on which we approve architecture, so we would not have approved the architecture if there was not art.

It would make sense in those situations to make that a condition that art be provided because we otherwise want to prove it.

Otherwise, we can make recommendations like I was pointing out earlier.

Maybe some sort of art should go in this location.

It could go in this location.

That makes a lot of sense, and then let the pack to public arts commission take care of it from there.

Just making sure there's space for art in a lot of our projects.

And occasionally, maybe there makes sense uh concrete pads should be provided.

That kind of thing is what I was saying about there.

And windows, the number, size, style, and type of windows should be appropriate for the architecture in the building and appear intentional in terms of rhythm patterns, ratio of walls to windows.

That was already written in here.

And my thing is always um symmetry in windows, usually makes the most sense.

Bird safe glass is listed in the master plan.

Uh so I do go in a little bit of detail on maybe bird safe glass doesn't have to be provided in every location, every instance.

We were to maximize the opportunity there, it makes sense to be a natural settings, larger settings, such like that.

And then I kind of explained that bird safe glass doesn't have to be super expensive, it could just be a sticker, the artistic, could be bird stickers on the window.

Um, it's the spacing of those markings on the window, whatever they might be that would make it bird safe glass.

And then there's also a uh UV coating sticker that goes over the home window that would make it birds, glass otherwise, and accessibility ramps.

Um, this is basically essentially the entrance of the building.

The entrance of the building should be the entrance for everybody.

Um, and and the we should maximize that in those occasions.

In occasions where perhaps the historic building makes it difficult or impossible for that to happen.

It should be an equal entrance access uh elsewhere on the building, and uh do provide the National Park Service statement on how to kind of think about that, and that's a good segue into historic buildings.

This is a new section as well.

Uh, that I did add because we we've run into this a couple of different times.

Um historic buildings and elements of buildings should be maintained as much as possible in their era of primary historic relevance.

However, historic buildings need not be static, and in many cases, adapting them to modern uses and needs can facilitate both restoration and future care.

Um historic staff did read the section, and general approves of what I've written.

Um we always have the option to recommend that car, the architectural review board, historic review board.

Uh, take a look if there is a historic project.

Building materials selection.

Um, the Richmond Sustainability Design Standard separate document from this, uh, dedicates a lot of space to sustainability of materials, including the durability of materials, and new building materials should be compatible with and complement the vernacular of the neighborhood in the with the neighborhood um and a lot of our existing documentation is is trying to do durability of material so it doesn't have to be replaced so often there's a section on that here um I do point out that historic staff as well has done good work with fiber cement siding often called party plank on historic projects uh so that is a possibility we've been looking at those projects and then resilient uses is an additional section that I added because of some goals in the master plan um for flexibility of use in this instance resiliency being flexibility of use uh spaces and places involved over time allowing for flexibility and use when designing the building can mean that we save money on the back end so because we don't have to change it so much uh sustainability design standards also deal with that a little bit and I say spaces can be created of standard size and shape that can be subdivided in the future or unsubdivided or whatever it might be.

That's a little bit of an interior thing but maybe occasionally it will come up and lead certification energy efficiency water conservation is also covered by the sustainability section this document as well as sustainability design standards the separate document covered very well and module modular modular units I did not realize that was hard to say um those are temporary you know kind of trailer situations that we often see at schools but not only at schools the planning commission has passed a resolution saying that the school buildings uh don't need to be reviewed because they're fairly standard um however if they are more permanent or not on a school property we would review that and we've kind of come across this occasionally as well uh typically in those instances project only includes a temporary trailer uh what I'm saying here is maybe that's not the best idea there should be landscaping uh shade should be anticipated especially as students you know are lining up say outside of whatever trailer I had I have nightmares of being in school standing outside the trailer in the middle of the ground a lot you know burning them off um so this is a little bit of a personal thing but it's in here and that is it so happy to take question comments concerns it's redundant could you explain a little bit how we interact with car if at all like if something moves to the historic a historic district and we go to them first and we would see that or would that just kind of take our role out of it what's what's the interplay there typically we're very separate our paths don't cross um typically also the city projects in historic districts there's not many of them so we haven't seen a lot of city projects and also the car review does not extend to the right of way at this time at least so street stuff uh would fall under our review and not under car however how all of our documents and the planning commission's documents are written uh things go to the planning commission and can go either to car or pack or the UDC or both or all or whatever the planning commission decides and if we end up getting something that we feel like should go to car and is not currently we can always make a recommendation as a condition that it go to car.

Any other questions I had some minor edits I don't actually want to do but uh page two the building orientation section yes so that first paragraph do you have like uh more trap well a large or more travel but the two streets still may need to maybe it should should it should be addressed a secondary street instead of main need to think they should look at both sides and then it the next it says it may be should I think it should say building design oriented towards a street should be designed to respect the street frontage it is on the book uh building design oriented towards the street should be designed to respect the street frontage it is on for sentence yeah it's it yeah would you like to speak with me after you sure I think these are minor like that yeah yeah that's fine I'm just having trouble keeping yeah I could that's fine it's all minor I did have one other the last on the modular units I know you asked about like the landscaping it is there any way to put something about screening or integrating like the electrical or panel banks because a lot of times they're just sheet of plywood with stuff stuck to it um we can make them whoever makes the motion can say and includes Mr.

Miniardi's comments and I'll cover it and I've got a note here uh to write okay a little bit of a I'll have to think about how to say that this camera um I think you've done a great job uh capturing kind of our guidelines I I don't have phrasing for this in my mind but what would you think about adding more about on the specific the contextual specificity of buildings because in two places you have mentioning I think one is like the neighborhood um I'm sorry I can't remember exactly where they were but I and I'm interested in other people's thoughts like either specificity to Richmond to kind of try and stem the tide of that homogenization of copy and paste wood frame buildings um or specificity related to adjacent civic buildings um like I mean the I know we're still being recorded but that library edition that we got years ago is still the worst project I've ever seen and they're like it was just a generic office building that kind of taped onto a monumental civic building and we didn't really have any backup in the guidelines to say why that wasn't appropriate so I don't know if it's quality or I don't think we want to get into like stylistic but something about specificity of context that's so such a long and windy way to say what I'm thinking is that you guys understand what I mean I think I'm here shared comments well earlier about the park you know just like keeping Richmond a little bit like grunting you know not but like yes so I think it's a good I think would be a better word in the standard than flash yeah artistic musical and grunt yeah I think if you phrase it as um a requirement for a thoughtful consideration of urban context you force them to discuss what their thoughtful consideration is it mimicking the adjacent stylistic infrastructure is it departing from it and if it is what is your thoughtful way of doing that but if we're just sitting there with a space alien ship that's landed with no thoughtful consideration of context then we would have a pretty clear phrase to point to I think the way you phrase that is great I would love to add like Richmond's urban context to that because like even in the precedence we see it's it's always other cities and I do think it's like blurring how things look across the country.

If we wrote that which I have no problem doing um it would be y'all that have to ask them and y'all have to decide if it is in context or not.

Yeah yeah I'm ready to do it.

And then you code as long as you have an architect on the panel someone will share their opinion.

Yeah I think if we're not just evaluate I think so that's like a huge part of that.

Okay, great.

I had a few other bullets on the scene.

Yeah, I mean you don't mind.

You're gonna do it better then like feel free to proceed.

Mr.

Pearson.

Sorry, the over opinion architect.

Um so just having seen some projects come through and thinking about things that we could put in here that might help us much to what Jesse just mentioned.

Um we've got we've got wording about building siding, and I like what's in there.

I would love to see us encouraging um applicants, designers, owners to be citing buildings in such a way that intentionally creates usable outdoor space.

Or perhaps you say the opposite, but I will also point to the library project that had in plan a section of uh an addition that was sort of star-shaped, and a lot of the comments came about how that plan shape was really creating an unusable urban environment.

It was not helping the creation of usable outdoor space.

Um, and I think that is kind of an integral and um mandatory part of urban design.

Personally, is the creation of it's that threshold between building edge and landscape and how how those two participate and create usable space.

So I said just a lot of words, sorry, but and I'm sure I could follow up afterwards with a much more concise way of saying that, but um that was one thought.

The setbacks are encouraged that allow for the development of usable public space and streetscape enhancing landscaping and discourages the creation of front lawn areas that do not offer use to citizens sound.

That's it, that's hidden it.

Yeah, is that already in there?

And I'm saying things that are already written, sorry.

I had the same thing.

Okay.

Um I'm just gonna blow through these.

There's a great section about materials in there.

I'm really glad that's in there.

Um, I would love to see the word authentic be in there.

Um durable, yes.

Um, one could argue that final siding with wood grain on it is durable, but it is not authentic.

And I think great civic buildings deserve higher level of material consideration.

Um, I don't know what other word besides authentic you would use.

Maybe there's something else, or maybe there's some warnings in there, like don't bring vinyl siding to my committee.

Um, I don't know.

But something along those lines.

Um we've had the discussion in my in my office, like what does authentic mean?

Because we all know what it means, but we can't quite like come up with that.

There are actually our architectural treatises written about this, which I could really bore myself with.

Um, but usually people speak to things not imitating other materials.

Um, so if you want it to be wood, make it out of wood.

Don't make it out of stone that looks like wood.

Um and I don't even necessarily think that that's something we have to be 100% behind.

Um anyways, I'm not sure I have the answer, but um one thing I've seen come up on some projects is traditional detailing that is not done very well and results in sort of a poor rendition of the uh sort of traditional precedence that the the designers are trying to take keys from.

And we do have kind of a section on facades and windows.

I wonder if we could just add some language in there that says we would encourage them to look to authentic detailing traditions of the adjacent context.

One example I'll give we had that lease horse barn thing that was over somewhere.

Um it was a nice project, and it had a gabled roof and it had dormers.

And I hadn't made the comment that the dormers needed to kind of be slimmed up because the windows, the amount of wall space around the windows wasn't sort of authentic to how you would build and design a dormer.

And I don't know, so stuff like that just kind of adds up when you see a bunch of city products where projects where details like that aren't really pulled off very well.

I feel like we're not we're not doing our job here, and we're not adding a little bit of guidance to the city as an owner to help these designers pull off great buildings.

Um there's that one.

I don't know if I missed it but like this whole back of house thing we've got a that's got to be like a go no go thing like there cannot be loading docks, mechanical equipment um Sir Mignardi wrote up product like utility stuff.

That stuff all needs to be treated as back of house not on the front street facade not visible on a roof needs to be either screened or hidden in alleys or I don't know how robust we can make that but that uh address in the ordinance at all.

It is addressed in the zoning requirement uh and it may be addressed in our site plan section as opposed to the architectural section I I'm not sure and can double check uh if the motion whoever makes a motion wants to say that I double check and if it's not we can bring something back we can I I would because thinking about the baseball stadium the other worst project uh I was gonna say it too but yes go for it you go you go like the only ridge like public urban real view that you have is just a bank of connectors like you pointed that out they didn't even see it like and that is specifically on the building.

It's at eye level when you come over the bridge it is so horrible.

It was not sure what's it but like that's gotta be you're right that's gotta be a huge priority.

I don't think it's a big ask it is standard when you're doing rooftop mechanical yards that you put screens around it.

I mean that's like in any developer's budget so I support that addition to the the guidelines and for a project that would have never gotten through the state art and architecture review board without screens around that stuff.

Yeah.

Generators I mean there's a whole list of stuff that goes to the process of something like the baseball field where they they show up here even though they've been working on it for a year and they show up here and say we we don't have time for a conceptual and final review you need to approve this now and we we were kind of uh forced at the point of a gun to approve it it was and they claim they made all the changes that we suggested but they made none of the changes that we suggested they went as is just built it out that's okay there's a plaque on the new bridge that's going to directly point to the responsible parties for the backside of this it seems it was in the bridge plan I saw it.

Or maybe it'll just show that list.

We need UDC grade plaques just like you get like a a lead platinum plaque on a building then if you uh don't follow our recommendations you'll get like a UDC grade F.

What are you looking at here?

Condenser units do you need any additional guidance for language associated with screening of utilities things like of that nature.

I don't think so and I I do like the idea of including like eye level roof in those few instances where the roof is at that level.

Would it be nice to have had elevations of that project that were readable of the baseball stadium considering they were maybe that that tall on this giant screen um one last quick one sorry there's a section on entries and ramps which is great um I think we could add a sentence in there that says ramp slopes um we would encourage ramp slopes that do not require guard or handrails might have to think about that a little bit so I might need some more time make a yeah just suggestions I mean I think of that um pavilion project over in the park where they could easily have avoided ramps handrails guardrails and all that sort of stuff which is taxpayer cost and aesthetically not something you want to see on that building um and then the comment came up so and they could easily have achieved a ramp with that all that stuff on that project do you think if we had had a subcommittee working with that architect that it could have been improved like when you our committee worked with the firehouse i mean that was you really have made those plans so much better i i feel like there was no good option for that project uh so it's just kind of choosing which option was least not good um just with with all the balance of the cost and space and historic stuff um so i i felt like we had all the options on the table that a small committee would not have come up with further options my personal paper but is that the roundhouse project that we're I could have designed a ramp on that roundhouse in about five minutes i mean the subcommittees is helpful to have like subject matter labors that are better designers and something that's really good to offer that kind of help when we are presented with a project that just seems it that just goes against the like specifics you know like Damon could get in there and be like here's the slope here's the landings here's how you wrap it around but like that is his engineered stamped liability I'm with you I'm totally but I don't know if we can always do that you could have yeah you don't have to listen I'm not suggesting it's like you know I'm not always wrong I'm not always right well that was my last bullet so thanks for considering this and just some thoughts thank you Mr.

Pierce there any other questions comments suggestions for the section of the the guidelines yeah I think I mean I think you've done a great job in the uh draft update this one was a little bit hard because we already had the notes I took were to drill down a little bit on utility screening um neighborhood RVA context and thoughtful i wrote somewhere um and accessibility ramps slopes is there any other that would be the uh the vote of the screening and mechanical screening mechanical yeah that it's and then a few quiet screens yes or yes minus you would you want to make the changes and just bring it back next I can do it feels like a project yeah it's okay so we won't we won't vote on yeah thank you that section today that works well wait till the June meeting sorry yes that brings us to the end of the agenda and I have a motion for adjournment so moved moved by miss gimmer seconded by Mr.

Hammond all in favor yes thank you thank you for joining us thank you all talk to you later that's good yeah sorry what was the library on uh bell what for the nature exploration area happening right now oh you say it that's really