Good evening, Rockville.

Today is September 29th, 2025, and we're beginning meeting number 23-25.

Please join me as you're able in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Ms.

Sarah Taylor Farrell, we now will move to agenda review.

Madam Mayor and Council members, there was a change to our agenda for this evening.

We removed an agenda item 11A, um, approval of resolution adopting rules of decorum and protocol.

So that agenda item has been moved to a later date, future date.

And that was the change on the agenda, and it reflects on the agenda and on the website.

Thank you.

I think there was one more addition on Friday that I think is just important that the public is aware of the impact MOU.

Mr.

Mahila, can you just speak to the agenda changes as well?

Sure.

I'm pleased to tell you that the impact tax on WU between the city of Rockville and the County was added late on Friday.

It's in your agenda packet.

Happy to answer questions if we need to.

Thank you, Mayor.

Okay.

Okay.

Councilmember Valeri.

Uh yes, I wanted to say something that I actually said this morning.

Um, but for the larger public, I think um repeating it here will also hopefully be helpful.

I believe that there is confusion by a very small number of people about the legislative process in the city of Rockville.

I would like to take a moment to explain this briefly so that all residents understand the reality of how policies are developed up here on the dais.

During strategic retreats and work sessions from the dais, the mayor and council identified policy areas that we would like to see advance toward a resolution or ordinance.

We do this as a body.

One individual council member or the mayor cannot direct staff to develop an agenda item.

This is a process intended to create parity and requires us as elected leaders to work together.

Unlike legislators on the county, state, and federal level, we do not write our own bills or policies.

Therefore, we cannot introduce a resolution or ordinance.

We can only raise issues in a broad sense, and it is up to the entire body to direct or not direct staff to develop the broad issue into a draft ordinance or resolution with specific policies.

This draft is then put on the agenda for all of us to discuss at a meeting of mayor and council.

More often than not, the draft is a revised from members of the body.

After the body agrees to the proceed with the revisions, it goes back to staff to edit and present to the mayor and council at a later meeting.

Speaking for myself, at no point during this process do I ever direct staff on how to develop the drafts.

And staff can confirm that I do not engage with them or dictate to them what should or should not be in draft.

This is an improper action in my mind, an action that I have not nor will ever engage in.

I hope that this brief moment of educational background is helpful to our resident community.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Just to provide some context, Councilmember, that was uh in reference to the polling of agenda item 11A.

Uh, the full body um well, most of us were on the LPT this morning and made a decision to pull it because we hadn't had a chance to review it in advance of it being posted and felt like it needed more work and have a variety of considerations to undertake.

We appreciate staff's work on it and uh that it will not be as part of our agenda and will be approved this evening.

Okay.

All right.

I would like to now move to city managers' report.

Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Um very long agenda tonight, so I'll just say that we're working on grants, uh number of capital projects, community events, and preparing for budget season.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

We have several boards and commissions appointments and reappointments.

Uh, we'll begin with the first one, which is Sarah Clark, uh, as part of the education commission.

Who would like to make the motion?

Councilmember Fulton.

I move to appoint Sarah Clark to serve on the education commission as a private school representative for a two-year term until April 1st, 2027.

Do we have a second?

Councilmember Miles Seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Okay.

All right.

We now have several uh new youth commissioners to uh acknowledge today.

Uh we establish a youth commission fairly recently, and we're so thankful to our young people who have bright ideas and are going to help us to make the city better for all.

And so we want to uh recognize several of those folks today, and there are um about six for appointments.

Who would like to make the motion?

Councilmember Valeri.

Okay, seven.

Sorry.

There are seven.

Um Madam Mayor, I move that for a new appointment to serve a full one year term until October 1st, 2026.

The following commissioners Alan Goosh, Paige Henry, Albert Lee, Layla McCarthy, Daniela Nauman, Azusa Straiter.

Uh Elijah Nota.

Elijah, my bad.

Yeah, yeah, no.

And then a reappointment to serve a full one year term until November 1st, 2026.

Elijah Noda.

Thank you.

Do we have a second?

Councilmember Van Grag seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Excellent.

All right.

If they are any youth members, please feel free to stand up.

We might have some here.

Congratulations and thank you.

Okay.

We now have some appointments to the ready board.

Who would like to make the motion?

Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move the new appointment of Vanessa El Hara and Tamika Montgomery as new members of the Ready Board of Directors to serve a three-year term until October 1st, 2028.

Do we have a second?

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

All right.

Councilmember, would you like to continue?

I will continue.

Yes, thank you.

I move the new appointment of Lavon Torrent Berner, Todd Pearson, Susan Prince, Morgan Sutherland, Justin Yang, and Claire Fears as members of the Ready Board of Directors to serve a three-year term until October 1st, 2028.

Do we have a second?

Councilmember Valerie Seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Might as well just keep on.

I want to roll.

I move to reappoint Mohammed Ken Muy as member of the Ready Board of Directors to serve a three-year term until October 1st, 2028, Montgomery College ex-officio representative.

Thank you.

Do we have a second?

Councilmember.

I'm gonna give it to Van Grack.

You go first.

Okay.

Seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

All right, thank you.

Okay.

All right.

We're now moving.

Thank you to all of our volunteers who have agreed to serve.

I'd like to now move on to community forum.

All persons, we welcome you to address the mayor and council.

Please speak in a civil and courteous manner, and members of the audience shall be respectful to others.

Each person will be allowed three minutes, and we ask that you stick to the three minutes allowed.

There will be a time clock in front of you, and you will hear an audible beep at the end of your three minutes.

Please state your name and if you live in Rockville, sit in the city of Rockville for the record.

Thank you very much.

So I'm getting the list now.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

We welcome our first person, Karen He.

Thank you.

Uh good evening, uh dear Mayor Ashton, Council uh Mayor and Councils, uh, all the officers and all the audience here.

My name is Kierun He from uh We Star Robotics Center.

So the reason I'm here is to uh raise the awareness of the STEM education and seek support for the STEM education.

So we start with a little uh uh community um with like about 10 students back to 2018, and right now we have over uh 100 students, we have 18 teams.

Last year, seven of our middle school and high school teams advanced world championship.

So we really represent the city of Rockville.

We are playing in an important role in the world uh stage.

So uh in order to honor the state uh city of Rockville, we name all our teams under the zip code 20850.

So we hope to bring up more championship in Nova this year.

So um throughout the whole entire process, we see uh the big uh changes from our students.

A lot of kids that came to our club, they were very young age from like uh second grade and to uh uh high school students.

Some of the uh did not understand what is the robotics, how to make uh coding, how to build uh in a you know, robot, how to design, so they were very scared.

However, I will have a you know very engaging hands on program.

We see how students have been changed over those uh processes.

And uh we see we are not just using the robot, you know, we are using the kids to build a robot instead we are using the robot to build our kids.

We see our younger kids become uh become more uh STEM passionated and they uh build up a team building uh team building uh skills and the leadership skills, and more important than that, they know how to give back to the community.

So they have offered uh two consecutive years in the Rockville Sand Center free STEM program, and we teach younger kids uh to how to learn uh STEM, and I think we see the importance of the STEM education in the city of Rockville, and we want to you know bring more students to our program.

That's why we are seeking for more support.

Right now we are very crowded, and we are short of the funding for the parts because the robotic parts are very expensive.

But we see the big impact that we have, you know, given to the community.

We want to know get more support from uh our you know parents and from the city of Rockville.

We are just locating the 20 courthouse in the town center, not only building the robotics, we have you know, we see a lot of uh uh economic growth as well.

The bubble tea owner are very happy with us, a subway and uh like a um eastern tumbling house.

We bring a lot of business to them.

So we okay, my time is up.

Thank you so much for listening.

Thank you very much.

Welcome Pat Reber.

Hello, Mayor and Council.

Um I live in Newmark Commons and I'm here before you tonight about a zoning proposal that um is it will be before you on December 1st.

I know it's a month off or two months off really, uh, but I just want to get our message out there.

Um there are also others here tonight from Newmark, if you'd sort of raise your hand.

Those of us who could fit in the room, it's a very full full house tonight.

Um we're here tonight to invite you all, the seven of you, right?

Um to um uh gather in our neighborhood sometime before December 1st.

Um also liaising with the mayor and um uh council member Fulton about this.

Uh so uh we hope we can set something up just to walk through our neighborhood and and um see um um what the layout there is.

Um so you can see why we are worried about the citywide rezoning proposal you are preparing to adopt that day on December 1st.

If developed at the proposed zoning level on this property that affects us, it would drastically affect life in our historic community.

Change is a constant of the human condition.

It can be good for us, or it can provoke anxiety.

Right now, Mayor and Council are poised to adapt the plan that unfortunately would do the latter, make many of us very anxious.

The genius of governance in Rockville and the work you do as mayor and council is the protection and nourishment of the integrity of communities like ours around the city.

It is what our city is known for, nationally.

That any development on this property would be quote, compatible with the adjacent neighborhood.

This is even stated in those quotes in the 2040 Rockville Comprehensive Plan.

Yet now we find a proposed zoning change that would invite more than five times the density of Newmark Commons and would likely result in 75 foot high apartment buildings and minimal setbacks.

We can't see how this would be compatible.

Um in 2027, Newmark will celebrate its 60th anniversary.

On our 50th, our city's Historic Commission and Mayor and Council backed our listing on the National Register of Historic Places.

We were recognized for our mid 20th century architecture and the planning.

We were one of the first uh five planned uh res uh development communities in the city of Rockville.

That law was passed in 1964.

We understand the city's need for more housing, but we hope you will continue to support the integrity of our community by keeping the current zoning of the adjacent property.

And we hope we can organize a visit to our community so you can see our concerns firsthand.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you very much.

Next, we welcome Jamie N.

Hi, my name is Jamie, and I live in Rockville.

While I understand the topic of decorum was removed from today's agenda, it still needs to be addressed.

On September 8th, you are all educated on how decorum has historically been used to uphold classism and racism in an institutions of power.

A week later, Councilmember Valeri, you introduced a resolution for stricter decorum to be passed ASAP despite the wise hesitancy and warnings from your colleagues.

We have video proof of you pushing this, so I'm not sure why you're trying to twist the truth on social media and avoid accountability.

I understand some of you feel aggressed upon, but the majority of the attacks that some of you have received lately, whether about rent caps, yard signs, or decorum, are actually you being held accountable for making decisions that hurt Rockville residents.

I understand a small number of your constituents get to the podium and say things that are racially charged or unrelated to the topic at hand, which is unsettling.

People are losing their jobs, losing their homes, and suffering from mental health struggles on a national and local scale.

But the measures in this decorum document, like not allowing people to clap or limiting when folks can sign up to speak, and giving the mayor unchecked power as a presiding officer, are not going to solve that.

But you know it might.

Increase mental health programs, housing stability, and focusing on the needs of the many rather than the wants of a few.

But instead of focusing on those resolutions, some of you want to use taxpayer time and dollars to focus on making sure your butts get sufficiently kissed by your constituents during community forums.

In a time where the First Amendment is in national peril, it is absolutely mind-boggling that a council member would push now on a local level for measures that suppress free speech.

Councilmember Valeri, I don't know if suppressing the voice of your constituents was your primary intention.

But even if it wasn't, it still reflects poorly on you that you don't have the social awareness as a person in power to realize the overarching implications of your actions.

Honestly, I think you should resign because this is now a pattern of behavior that demonstrates a lack of accountability, poor forethought, unprofessional interactions with your constituents, and playing politics rather than progressing a community forward.

Whether or not you eventually resign or decide to run for re-election, if I were you, I would start figuring out a contingency plan for what you'll be doing after this city council term because I don't think the people of Twin Book, Twinbrook will choose you to represent them on City Council again.

The majority of your constituents follow the rules of decorum already established.

We sign up to speak, we keep it to three minutes, don't use violent language and stay on this side of the podium.

We follow the rules of the game, and now you want to change the rules because you're losing in the court of public opinion.

So if we follow your rules and you still try to silence us, then what's the point of continuing to play by your rules at all?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome, Andre Dahlman.

Hello there, Mayor and Council.

Thank you very much for um having this forum for us to speak.

I am also a resident of Newmark Commons.

I've been there for 10 years.

I'm also concerned about the um master plan zoning um ordinance and changing the parcel of property in question, which I believe is it's hard to tell for me with the maps.

Maps are very complicated, but looks like parcel 1235, um, which is at the corner of Scandia Way and Don Mills Court.

Um, I love Rockville and I love the idea of growth, but I think in this particular instance it would not be good for our community.

Um it is our neighborhood is um as Pat Rebard said, it was a planned community, so it's not particularly large.

There's a lot of call to sex, there's concerns with traffic, and this would be quite a large increase in traffic to our neighborhood.

As well as that particular parcel of land is kind of unique.

There's some wetlands concerns there.

I know that there's part of the land that is supposed to be maintained for wetlands.

It's also right next to the highway.

So there's like some environmental impact concerns, and it also was the site of the poor house poor farm cemetery.

So there's actually bodies that are underneath there that were exhumed during the widening of two or during the creation of 270.

So it's just kind of like a strange, hollowed place, and I feel like it would be best left alone the way that it is.

So I would ask the council to consider that.

I um second pets, though we have not talked about this specifically, but I think it would be great if you could come through to the neighborhood in the next couple months before this plan will be recommended one way or another, so you can kind of see what some of the concerns are with the traffic.

People already, you know, we already have a lot of townhomes in there, actually, which are part of our community, which we love and appreciate, but people are just moving pretty quick to get in and out of there because of the cul-de-sacks, and there's not a lot of ways in and out.

Um, so I think it's a valid concern that a lot of the residents have that if this does go forward as planned and potentially that site would be redeveloped, it would be out of character for the neighborhood and not great.

Um, I do have a secondary concern about the schools.

I don't know if this is the proper place to address address that, but I do have kids in Baird Rustin in the last two years.

They've been put into portables.

It's like one of the largest elementary schools in the county, kind of flips back and forth with Clarksburg and a few others, but I think that that would also have a pretty significant impact on the schools because it would most likely be zoned for Bayard Rustin as well.

So I think that we should um I would just ask you to consider all these variables, and I I appreciate your efforts and know that it's hard to split the baby, but if you could uh consider those items and come take a look in our neighborhood.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Welcome, Kate Teschel Gold, followed by Jeff Deroff.

Good evening, and thank you for this opportunity, Mayor and City Council.

Uh my name is Nancy Catherine Deschler Gould, and I've been a citizen of the city of Rockville for more than nine years, and a member of the community garden for I think around seven years.

Um I'm a board member and I've been a board member for a while in the community garden.

I represent 40 households from Rockville who garden there.

And we're really, really happy that you have undertaken the process to make decisions about the future of the farmstead, and we're very hopeful that some use of the buildings can be found and funded.

Um we agree with the community's preference for multi-purpose rooms, community kitchen, arts and tech spaces, maker spaces, wellness, daycare, um, child care and youth teen center.

Um, however, the feeling of our gardeners and I believe the larger community uh surrounding it is that the city should reject any uses that require a large parking lot.

Um there are plenty of other places in the city for hosting things like hometown holidays, Rockville Town Centre, Rockville, is it called Rockville Town Center now?

I know that the name has changed.

Um we'd really we really don't even want to see the base scenario, and I am not sure.

I this is a question for when you have your session on this.

Um it kind of looked like if the base scenario, which involved using existing parking, no additional parking lots were implemented, that the dairy barns weren't going to be used.

I'm I may have that wrong, but in on page 232, there's a um a chart and it it says not applicable.

So that doesn't make sense to me because they're in better shape than the horse barn, for example, which was listed.

So if you can look into that, maybe I have it wrong, but um some of us are just really wondering about that.

Um we really treasure the trees and lawn space and green space.

It's so important, especially since the EYA project was allowed to be developed immediately adjacent to the garden and took away a huge amount of green space, animals, plants that are just gone, um displaced, whatever.

We had an influx of many groundhogs, probably resulting from that.

Um, so uh we appreciate your thoughtful stewardship of the city.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor Ashton, council members, thank you for the chance to address you tonight.

We'll try to be super quick.

First, thank you.

It was a great summer for recreation parks, tons of summer camps, lots of use at the outdoor uh pools.

That pool is magical.

So thank you for the investment the city made.

That's going to rebound for the next 30, 40 years.

I think the only room more crowded than this in the city of Rockville is the Rockville Swimming Center tonight.

Um, so it's well used.

Uh wanted to address just two quick issues.

One is the farmstead, uh, and the other is an unrelated issue for Redgate.

Um, on the farmstead, our message had been that you heard from us uh in the spring and over the summer, we wanted to reiterate, which is keep it simple and get it done.

The barns have been effectively unused since I was going into middle school.

I'm obviously quite a bit older than that now.

And there's been great work done by the city and by the consultants, great input from the community.

We would emphasize again that you take a really disciplined approach and look at high confidence in terms of being able to get it executed, not doing something that is aspirational, but something that can get done.

I think the community garden is a great example that if you get space that's safe and usable for Rockville residents, they'll use it well.

They'll make it into something special.

Um, those buildings have been underutilized for 30, 40 years.

Let's get them done.

Keep it simple.

And if there's a phase approach where there's greater ambition later on, that's great, but let's get those used as quickly as we can.

That was the feedback from the recreation and parks board.

Um, separate but somewhat related on Redgate.

Congratulations to the city.

We understand that there's a 1.5 million dollar award coming from the federal government.

That's fantastic.

It's really great that the city is looking for different ways to fund our priorities.

Uh, we also really support the use of Redgate as a recreation facility.

We did want to flag a concern, and I want to be clear this is not us saying put down homes on Redgate.

It's not that, it's not put a coal-powered power plant at Redgate, it's not that.

It's that our understanding is that taking that money from the federal government would give the federal government essentially in perpetuity oversight and restrictions on how the city could use REDGate is 130 acres.

Forever is a long time.

Um your successors in 50 years in 100 years may have a desire to build uh I don't I don't know, a small pool or something.

1.5 million dollars for a in perpetuity land use restriction, I think is we think is not prudent.

That said, we know that you guys have a lot more information.

We support the overall vision of Redgate.

It's not at all saying change direction.

It's just a is it worth worth it for that amount of money for the city to give up that level of control over its own property.

That's it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Welcome, Nancy Picard, followed by Sabi Urban.

Sorry, that was a good uh greetings and good evening, Madam Mayor and members of council.

I'm Nancy Picard, executive director for Peerless Rockville.

Um I want to thank you tonight for holding not one but two important work sessions that concern historic preservation in Rockville in some way.

Um for many years, Rockville has had a very strong reputation within the county for valuing its historic resources, and Pierreless Rockville looks to you to continue to safeguard the city's heritage and its vulnerable historic resources.

The zoning ordinance rewrite introduces key historic preservation measures, including an enforcement process for demolition by neglect, which we strongly support.

However, it also contains proposals that would make it significantly harder to protect Rockville's historic resources.

The draft before you includes um altering designation and review processes, but it also recognizes that the 1977 adopted architectural design guidelines for exterior rehabilitation.

That's a mouthful.

Um the point is it's very out of date, 1977.

Unfortunately, this is the same case for many of Rockville's other historic preservation documents.

The historic resources management plan was written in 1986.

Um this means that context statements by which we evaluate, and we, meaning the whole city, but also the HDC, this is what they use to evaluate the significance of our history.

These documents have not been updated for almost 40 years.

Entire neighborhoods in Rockville have been built in this time.

And more importantly, values about whose contributions to history actually matter have broadened significantly since this time.

The 2040 master plan directly speaks to this need with HP element policy one calling for maintaining and strengthening the city's preservation program and action three, prioritizing the completion of an updated historic resources management plan, including context statements that cover later 20th century history and underrepresented communities and cultures.

If the 1977 guidelines are to be discarded and the public review process is diminished, what will replace it?

We recommend that the city undertake a thorough review of these essential documents and carefully assess community needs prior to considering any changes that may diminish the designation process or jeopardize significant local assets.

Moving on to the King Farm work session.

That also replace, I'm sorry, that also relates to an HP element, which is 9.2, and that's the to find suitable uses for city-owned historic properties such as King Farm.

Peerless Rockville, I want to be clear enthusiastically, very enthusiastically supports reuse and reactivation.

Thank you of this property.

I'll send more.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Do we have Il Sabia?

Okay.

Can you hear me from uh I have a I'm oh it's virtual phone in.

Okay.

Um give us one second.

We have to finish the folks in the room.

Apologies.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh next will be Brad O.

Mayor and Council.

Uh I live in Rockville, and I came here tonight to express my alarm at the resolution regarding decorum, which you were set to discuss this evening.

I'm relieved that this resolution has been tabled for the moment, and I urge you not to return to it in any form going forward.

I'm a teacher.

One of my favorite things to teach is Martin Luther King's letter from Birmingham Jail.

In that letter, Dr.

King addresses the way that things like tone policing have been used to attack social movements like his.

Over and over, the form taken by free speech, assembly, and expression has been used by the powerful to silence and suppress communities of color, the working class, and other marginalized people.

Clearly, any council members who were to support a resolution like this disagree with Dr.

King and the values promoted in the letter from Birmingham Jail.

In a democracy, that's allowed.

But it is wildly out of stuff with the community you represent.

We want leaders who will fight back against the White House when it attempts to suppress speech that it doesn't like, not emulate the administration's tactics in our own community.

In the discussions regarding rent stabilization this year, it was clear that a number of Rockville residents have become frustrated by a community that uh excuse me, by a council that turns a deaf ear to our concerns and experiences, instead choosing to side with wealthy real estate developers who don't even live here.

I think it is understandable that residents have lost patience with the mayor and council.

And if you are not prepared to hear spirited disagreement and occasional rudeness, you're in the wrong place.

You signed up for this.

Part of what representative democracy means is that constituents are allowed to tell you when you're doing things wrong, and they don't always have to be polite about it.

Dissent is critical to a functional democracy, and decorum is discriminatory.

Please do not join the authoritarians.

Thank you very much.

Welcome Anna Chung, followed by Pedro Contreras.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council.

Um, my name is Anna Chung.

I'm a resident of Rockville.

I've been a resident for almost 15 years and a resident of King Farm.

I'm here to hear the work session on the farmstead this evening.

Um you've heard me heard from me in the past.

Um, I'm a gardener in the community garden, and um me and my fellow gardeners and others in the community are able to enjoy the pavilion and the garden and very much support um all the work you guys have done to figure out how to save the historic buildings and make use of it for everyone in the community.

Um I was a little surprised reading the documents for the work session that the addition of a uh 44-space asphalt lot or a hundred space lot is being considered.

Um we're not interested in a new parking lot.

We just lost a huge open space to the EYA development.

Everyone's a little concerned about what that might mean for traffic.

So as much as I want us to use the building, I want us to do it in a way that um uses what the site has to offer and the new 47 spaces.

I also thought it was strange that the scenario which does use the existing parking doesn't seem to use the dairy barns.

Doesn't seem like the most efficient use of funds, since those seem to be the best uh buildings in the best condition right now.

So look forward to hearing the work session, and I hope these are questions that you all will ask.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Do we have Mr.

Pedro?

Oh, but I'm not right there.

Okay, no worries.

Thank you very much.

Uh Michelle Shen, followed by Samir.

Hello, uh, good evening, Mayor and Council.

Um, my name is Michelle.

I live here in Rockville.

And I'd like to start off by saying thank you for removing the decorum resolution from the agenda.

And I agree with some of the others who have testified here that you should drop it entirely.

Um I believe it would be ironic for the council to call for decorum when Marissa Valeri is perfectly comfortable verbally berating members of the public when she's not on camera.

Uh and all we want is the ability to live here affordably, and that's what people like us have been advocating for on the city council floor.

And by voting to ban even the discussion of rent stabilization here after hearing hundreds of testimonies in favor of this policy.

Uh, I feel like the message you've been sending to the public is loud and clear that this council is inherently anti-democratic.

And if you introduce these new decorum policies, you're also telling us that this council is also anti-free speech.

Um it's upsetting to me that I live in a city with a council that cares more about how residents express their issues rather than the issues themselves.

And to maintain decorum, you're telling us to put our emotions at the door in the face of evictions, homelessness, and and unsustainable rising cost of living.

And you've sat through hundreds of testimonies and told us that those testimonies don't matter by uh voting to ban the discussion of rent stabilization, and that you know better than us on how to afford housing because the developers and landlords extracting our incomes from rent won't be able to run their businesses if we impose a simple regulation on them.

Uh I urge the council to continue to drop any resolutions on decorum so that we, as the people of Rockville, can have a path to advocate for ourselves and our neighbors in front of the council.

So thank you.

Thank you very much.

Uh hey everyone.

Uh I don't really have anything prepared, but I'll just talk.

But yeah, so uh I do thank all of you to that of taking out the decorum thing.

I think it's pretty um pretty good.

And um I will say that uh with everything going on with decorum.

I just don't like the whole idea that Marissa Valerie like proposed this whole idea of decorum and is like talking about it openly.

There's even like I went back and I was just curious about some of the clips and stuff, and I screen recorded some of this stuff of her uh speaking about this, actually.

Let me find this real quick.

And she was speaking about how Valerie about her proposal talking about this.

Uh old new business thing, because we've ended late lately.

Um I wanted to put this forward to all of my colleagues.

Um that given in particular um the tenor of it uh especially uh community forum at the last meeting, and frankly, somewhat this meeting as well.

Um I think it would be most advantageous to prioritize and codify the chamber rules of decorum as soon as possible.

Um, directing staff to do the same uh with a goal of approving the code of conduct as soon as possible, ideally at our next meeting is my understanding from Mr.

City Manager that uh I could keep going.

Honestly, it's public, you could find it.

Um you can approach me if you want to find out where that is.

But I just want to say that there's some there's something to be said here.

And also it's not fair for you to call for decorum when you just yelled at one of my friends about like twice, honestly, one of my fellow friends, twice saying I will destroy you, saying all this stuff.

I I think you've all heard this stuff, right?

It's kind of ironic hearing this stuff.

And honestly, and historically speaking, it's been used in a way, as many of my friends up here has talked about, um, to essentially oppress minorities and essentially stopped prevented their freedom of speech, right?

Like it's like why, like the whole idea of like decorum, like the way you speak is gonna differ based off the culture you're part of, you know, the different, you know, ways of there's just there's just different ways of like speaking and stuff culturally and whatnot.

And I think um, like for example, like in colonized, like in India, for example, the British used colonization to tell the Indians that what they're doing, Gandhi buggers saying a lot of these people telling them that they're being in civil.

But it's like a lot of these civil rights movements are based about being in civil, right?

So it's kind of messed up, if you ask me.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time.

Welcome, Tyree, followed by Erin Adams.

Excuse me.

Good evening.

Uh first, thank you for removing the uh decorum conversation.

I concur with some folks from earlier, but I did want to address the issue of rules of decorum in public meetings, particularly in light of both our nation's civil rights history, especially with our current political climate and patterns we see right here in Rockville.

Throughout our history, progress has real rarely came from those who remain silent, have power, or who conform conform to polite expectations when confronted with injustice.

Community movements are built on voices that disrupted comfort to demand change, voices that refuse to stay quiet in the face of systemic inequity, from the cities to the marches, from freedom riders to everyday residents who risk arrests simply to be heard.

Civil rights leaders taught us that decorum must never become a shield against accountability.

When we look at our own city, it is troubling to see rules of decorum applied in a way that often chills speech from residents while sitting council member repeatedly disregards those same expectations.

I have pertinent personally witnessed a pattern from a particular council member speaking with disdain towards individual residents, community organizations, and even other elected officials in front of community staff and other elected leaders.

As recent as last month at National Night Out.

These instances send a clear message that the standard of civility is not applied equally, and that those in power sometimes exempt themselves from the very rules they impose on others.

It is not only what goes on behind the dais in these meetings, but what is happening in community at all times as well.

I also appreciate uh councilmember Jackson, Councilmember Mouse, and Councilmember Fulton for their voices last week regarding this topic.

When decorum becomes a tool to silence passionate dissent from the community yet is ignored by those on the dais, it erodes public trust.

It communicates the same voices often, excuse me, it communicates that some voices, often those of residents with legitimate grievances, must be muted, while others can act without consequence.

Civil rights history reminds us that discomfort is necessary for growth and that the challenge and that challenging power structures will rarely feel polite.

If this body wishes to uphold respect in meetings, let's start with accountability on the council itself.

Otherwise, heightened enforcement of decorum rules risk stifling the same community voices that have historically driven meaningful social progress.

Thank you very much.

Welcome Karen Adams, followed by Elizabeth Adams.

Hi, Mayor and Council.

My name is Aaron Adams.

I'm also here to talk about this issue of decorum being put on the agenda, pulled off now tabled.

I just want to say, like everyone else uh has been saying so far about this issue.

This is setting a dangerous precedence at a very important time in our history.

Um I also want to say that I actually understand the instinct to self-protect.

I think a lot of people don't know what it's like to sit somewhere and have people kind of telling you that you're not doing your job well.

Maybe you hear it from your boss, but a lot of people don't know what it's like to hear it from a lot of people.

So I understand what it's like to want to kind of protect, to put walls up and to even silence the voices if you can.

The only thing I can think of that's the most similar to that is me teaching college classes and having college students tell me that I'm not doing something right that I have a PhD in.

So I understand what it's like to hear from people that you don't think you know, know better than you of how you're doing your job.

However, I do believe that public servants have responsibility to rise above that instinct and to think outside of themselves and to try to let that emotion kind of go to the back, as instinctual as it is.

Um, and so I I just want to also say that this is very concerning to me as somebody who really cares about young people, because I think you can start to set a precedence and tell young people that there's a certain way that you're supposed to talk to the government.

I think one of the most um encouraging things to me in this whole rent stabilization fight has been how many of my fellow young people, I'm not that young, but fellow young people I've seen come into these rooms and for the first time approach their mayor and city council.

We didn't think about these faces before, and now for the first time we're coming in here, and now we're being told how to do that.

And I will say that definitely hits different as a black woman.

So I will um echo again my fellow uh residents when they talk about these the racism and the classism that comes with these demands.

Um I actually do want to take a moment to also thank Councilmember Jackson for his immediate hesitancy on this.

I think um for those who don't know, I'm a part of the Huntington Tent Association.

There was a moment when Councilmember Jackson came and sat with us in our apartment uh complex and had to kind of very directly hear from constituents how upset we were with his uh denial or refusal to take up the rent stabilization issue.

I know that wasn't easy, it didn't end easy, but the part the the way you do governance is to say you have the right to do that.

You have the right to dissent with me.

You have the right to get a little rude with me, have the right to even ask me to leave an area, you know.

Um, and and you have the right to disagree with us.

But there's a way that we go about that.

And so I do thank you for that, and I hope that you would also uphold that precedence with the yard sign issue.

I will tell you, I'm I shouldn't say this maybe a month.

I actually am not the biggest fan of yard signs, but I do think that people have a right to put yard signs where they want, um, as long as it's legal.

So I do hope that you keep that same energy whenever you think about the yard sign issue.

Um, again, as a federal worker right now, I'm I'm hoping I'm praying that you guys will really think about the democracy issue and never speak about this again.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Elizabeth Adams, followed by William Martinez, hi.

Um, most of you guys know me from the uh community outreach.

I am here basically on that issue.

However, I'm you know taken aback by some of the other things I heard.

Um in July, there was a law passed for mold.

Um in the law, not much is written.

I unfortunately have a mold issue now.

Um, as far as I can tell, it's up to each municipality to write their own rules, and I'm looking for help because my apartment complex, Fields of Rockville.

Um, I I have a list of 15 other people.

I could bring all their stories up, but I would run out of time.

Um, their follow-up test was only done inside the containment units that they set up in my house.

They did not do a full overall test.

Me and my family are immune compromised.

There are plenty of other people over there getting sick.

My cat died, y'all know that.

And this apartment complex needs to be held responsible.

They are a low-income housing unit, and they accept government funds from probably 80% or more of the tenants there.

And that's not just monthly payments, but it's tax breaks, it's grants to that's supposed to go for the upkeep of the buildings, but I have proof that that's not happening.

There have been many complaints to um permits and code inspectors and code enforcement and everything by other tenants over there that I have that have never been followed up followed up on from a year ago.

And so this apartment complex is not only taking advantage of all of the people that live there, but they're being allowed to by the city of Rockville.

I brought this to your guys' attention.

You guys are now well aware of it.

And I am hoping that something that can be done to not only help protect my family, but all the other families over there.

Brings me to to the decorum issue.

Um, I hadn't heard of it.

Um, I'm lucky I came tonight.

I am a white woman.

And all the pushback that I've received trying to deal with this apartment complex and the issues in it have been ridiculous.

Come to find out the landlord tenant commission complaint forms not even offered in Spanish.

Everybody over there, 90% of those people over there, their first uh language is not English.

This city is not set up to help those people.

I lived here 30 years ago when I was a teenager, and all I heard was Rockville takes care of its residents.

Here I am at Ford 3, wondering if that's actually gonna happen.

Because I brought this to your guys' attention months ago.

And nothing's happened.

So thanks.

Thank you.

We have good evening.

I'm William Martinez.

I'm also a resident here in Rockville.

Less than a quarter mile away.

To be so close to the town hall and not be seen or heard for any help.

I don't feel that's right at all.

We have problems with mold issues there.

I've been there since the we had a flood in 2021.

That's when I was allowed to see when they dug up behind the walls.

I could see nothing but black everywhere.

I've been ignored ever since.

Since May, we had another storm.

Open up the walls again.

They left it open.

Black everywhere.

I had a city code enforcer come through, Barry Cooper.

He came through and told me.

So apparently I have to pay for my own mold inspection.

I'm a single father.

That's not easy to do.

I have my kids here.

I'm taking care of them.

Why should I have to pay when I told the complex themselves the issues I'm having, and I requested mold test, air sampling test, blind eye.

Now I found out, you know, I could put these violations, you know, to you guys.

Still nothing.

There Barry gave them to October 1st.

They only replaced one hole in the wall.

Carpets are still mildewy.

Seems like they're not helping.

We went out, put paperwork on everyone's door of where they can make complaints.

Next day, the complex took it down.

I do thank you for sending two of your city workers.

They did come through and put paperwork too.

I'm not sure if those got taken down also.

And even if they didn't get taken down, I'm not sure how much residents will put in violations.

And if many did put the violations in, what happens afterwards when they're not heard either.

We need help over there.

It's pretty bad.

It's risking all of our health, and we're right there, not that far from you guys.

I hope to see some sort of outreach of some sort or accountability to the apartment complex, the fields of Rockville.

They're taking their sweet time, and it seems like they probably would have never done anything unless somebody comes up and starts talking.

I heard there's some people who put violations over a year ago and nothing happened.

I don't plan on waiting a year or more.

We need your guys' help.

We have many more of the people who's gonna be signing up, and they already did too.

I appreciate you guys opening at years for now.

We'll be back.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome, uh Cassidy Ayers.

Hi, my name is Madison Dunnen.

This is my sister Cassidy Ayers, and we live in the fields of Rockville.

We just wanted to say that ever since we found out the mold we've been getting um really really sick.

I missed a lot of days of school when I was in eighth grade.

Same with my sister Cassie.

I've been getting many more headaches ever since then.

And our cat Willow died, just like my mom said, and it was really, really hard on us.

And it's really, really hard now.

And I just really really hope that maybe like you guys can help because this is a problem, and we really need this to stop.

There's many more people out there who also has the same problems there, and it's not good, and they're not getting help as well.

And my sister would like to say some stuff too.

Okay.

This stuff has been hard on everybody, and some people aren't speaking loudly, putting it out, and they don't usually do a lot of things because they can get scared.

Um, but that's why we need your guys' help, and it's been affecting everybody around, and it's been a lot for all of us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I'm going to uh Mr.

Mahale, like there was some public safety concerns with housing conditions.

I just wanted to see if you can address and also maybe have someone meet with them in the back as well.

I just want to make sure that is clarified.

Happy, let me just address it broadly, Mayor, if that's okay.

Well, first of all, we just appreciate people coming forward and sharing their concerns and thoughts about what's been going on at the field.

So we are aware of it, and we've been taking a number of different steps to try to address the issues there, which are which are complicated and diverse and not consistent across the entire apartment complex, but there's a number of units there that need additional work.

Um, as the mayor and council know, well, we've been out to that property on numerous occasions a couple of times, very specifically, we received complaints, and our co-enforcement team has been out there the next day to talk to the tenants to gain access to the units and then to try to gain compliance from the property owner.

The property owner has not been moving as quickly as we want them to.

We have written a few tickets a couple times to make sure that they're moving forward in a more um prudent manner.

Um, they have made some changes to the property.

They are actively making some remediation efforts, and we expect them to come back and do some testing to make sure that all of the issues have been addressed in an appropriate way.

Um, we want to make sure that people realize that we have a hat team, and the HAD team includes um housing navigators, which are city staff members that can provide people with assistance regarding housing services, and we also have representatives from our code enforcement team.

Those folks are available to meet with people and to address our concerns.

They have gone out and canvassed the entire apartment complex, knocked on doors to see um what issues they're addressing.

We do have language services available for people as well.

Both a lot of our um written documents are both in English and Spanish, but even so, people can um ask for language services, and we can have somebody that does speak Spanish very fluently to meet with folks to address their concerns.

So we're aware of it.

We provided lots of opportunities, including a community engagement session with council a couple weeks ago, and we'll continue to work with folks that have complaints and the property owner to make sure that there are safe conditions in the fields.

Um, and there's staff back there from what have raised their hand who can meet with people.

If they have more detailed questions or concerns, please meet with them in the hallway.

We'll take down names, addresses, and phone numbers.

I'll have someone go on site.

Thanks for the opportunity, Mayor.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, sir.

And I believe that this form has been is in Spanish, and if people could be provided that Spanish language version, that would be greatly appreciated.

You bet.

Thank you.

The landlord tenant complaint form is not offered in Spanish as of two weeks ago.

Sounds good.

Do you think it's on the other hand?

Guys, I would just um if staff could follow up outside.

I believe I asked this question about Spanish some time ago, and if that could be provided in print, that would be great.

Thank you.

Um welcome, Chandra Gordon, followed by Aileen Cabal, and thank you all for your testimony.

Do we have Shandra Gordon or Eileen Cabal?

Okay.

Uh so um next is Grant Samms, followed by Ulysses Ulysses.

Okay.

All right.

Uh I'm having trouble reading this, but I'll try NICAC Zimmerman.

All right.

Grant, welcome.

Well, good evening, Mayor and Council.

Uh, for the record, my name is Grant Sam's.

I am a Rockville resident.

Uh I'm the president of the Retenant Association and a very proud member of Rockville Renters United.

Uh I want to thank again the council for pulling the decorum resolution this morning.

Um I still think that this is a very deep or a moment for deep reflection in our community and reflection about the kind of community that we want to be.

Um, for historical context, there have been a few other grassroots movements that have come up around issues in Rockville in the last few years.

Um, the Seven Locks Alliance advocated using yard signs and hand signs in chamber and clapping.

Uh the Don't Widen 270 campaign had yard signs and hand signs and clapped.

And Rockville Renters United now has yard signs and hand signs and clapped.

And I by no means am criticizing those movements, but rather I offer them as a counterpoint and uh a moment for reflection.

It seems that even though these movements have all used the same tactics, it is for some reason now that we are seeing a scramble to create rules about how these tactics may be used.

And I think that should be criticized in the highest of terms.

As far as I can see it, there are two primary differences between those two prior movements and ours.

The first is that their goals had apparent unanimous support from the count uh the mayor and council that that they were in front of.

And the second is that they were predominantly made up of wealthy white individuals.

Rockville Renners United, on the other hand, stands opposed with the majority of this council.

Though I do want to thank council members Shaw and Miles for your ongoing support of rent stabilization.

And this is a particularly diverse movement of people from a very wide array of racial backgrounds, income levels, living arrangements, and degrees of political experience.

And that last point in particular is something that I'm very proud of.

The ongoing rent stabilization fight is for the first time engaged people to come before local lawmakers and discuss issues and get involved in the political process.

And broader political participation from a true and complete reflection of our community can only strengthen the quality of our democracy.

And yet it's this moment that there is a sudden scramble for rules on these tactics.

Rules that would make it harder for that true reflection of our community to be visible in our local politics.

So this is a moment for reflection, I think, for our entire community.

Are we the kind of community that wants to erect barriers to that participation?

Or do we want to open up the door and be equitable so that all can participate in that process to strengthen our democracy?

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I just did anyone who I called who was not able to speak come into the room.

Okay.

All right.

Ulysses Samantha, followed by Nikaximamen.

And then we had Wendy Murphy.

Okay.

Hello there.

Good evening, Mayor Council.

I'm Ulysses Santa Maria, president of Rockville Science Center.

I'm here regarding King Farm and its developments.

As far as I've been made aware that the makerspace as part of the concepts for the current plans for King Farm is still there.

Just want to give a friendly reminder that we're here.

We have our own makerspace.

It's here in Rockville Town Square, that is uh currently 1,500 square feet, uh, with an active uh membership base of over 100 people now, uh, thanks to our efforts, and that we continue to be involved both in the greater community.

We were recently at Rocktobia Fest and uh making a great use of one of our best machines, a laser cutter and engraver, helping people make customized coasters.

Uh, but we have much more capability than that.

Uh generally speaking, we would serve as a great compliment to any of the efforts there, especially for any sort of makerspace development.

We have been doing it now for a couple years, and uh we're happy to serve as uh any sort of information, insights, or any other ways that we can help in this regard.

Uh so we'll be here as well for the uh longer working sessions.

So just wanted to let you know that we're here.

Nothing, nothing more, nothing less.

All right, thank you.

Thank you very much.

All right, welcome.

Hi, I'm Nicole.

I'm a tenant organizer here in Montgomery County, and I dedicate most of my time to organizing organizing because I believe that tenants like myself will uh need deserve safe, affordable, and dignified places to live, as we've heard a lot about tonight.

Um, I would like to echo some of the points made by other speakers.

So far, even though the decorum resolution was removed from the uh from the agenda, um, it's I think it's worth asking why was the sixth discussion brought out to begin with.

Um, I'd also raise that any discussion on decorum from this body just feels especially hollow, um given the behavior of its own members.

Um, as I've shared on this body, on January 13th, Councilmember What's our approached me and harassed me and another community member, um, unprovoked.

We were just leaving the building.

Um, and I tried to de-escalate, I left the, I tried to walk away, she tried to continue the conversation, and I was completely shocked.

Um, I still don't feel safe in this building if I'm being completely honest.

Um, I emailed the council, uh, asked for just to let them know what happened.

I asked for an apology, never received an apology.

Um, later this year, I think this is already in reference tonight.

Um, council member very spotted me in another community member campusing in Twinbrook about rent stabilization.

Uh, this is a right protected by the First Amendment.

Um, and she told us that she would destroy us.

Um council was again made aware of this during the June 16th hearing.

Um lack of response from the mayor and council to me says that they they they condone this behavior.

Um, and I suggest before the council moves forward on this, um, they should take a deep look at uh how their own members are treating others before regulating other people's speech.

Thank you.

Very much.

Welcome, Wendy Murphy, followed by well, see if anyone else uh in the room would like to speak.

Hi.

I I was oh, I'm Wendy Murphy, and I do live in Rockville.

Um I am heartened to see that that whole decorum thing was pushed back again.

Now, what you can do is put rent stabilization in its place, and there we go.

Um I'm the child of two Holocaust survivors.

My father was the director of the Viennese political cabaret in the late 30s who went through the woods and stuff hiding and putting on shows against Hitler.

And um both my grandparents owned newspapers, so they were all targets, you know, actors and newspapers.

Um they all had to flee overnight.

When I saw this announcement about decorum, decorum is such a not real word, you know.

Anyway, it it just stunned me.

And um I just think right now we're worried.

Uh I'm worried that our country is in um is an autocracy.

So I think we could worry about that too.

And we should maybe worry less about hurt feelings and more about keeping people housed fed and safe from being kidnapped off the streets.

So thank you.

Please state your name and whether you live in this.

Audience, not just for you all, but the public and the folks over here.

Now, Chris Mason, that's a part of this Rockville Renner group.

He had many hours a few months ago with his group members, they all said the same thing.

Um, but they're very different, eloquent, very eloquent, all of you, but you all said the same thing.

So please, um, if you can, at some point we can arrange for me to speak here a little bit longer.

Now, my preamble, as I said, very important, very important.

I pledge allegiance to British America, not Latin America, not rude, new young generation to dominate abuse us, communist China America, not too much disrespectful American generosity usurping H1B home country, India America, not mediocre talent, famine also usurping American generosity, Africa famine countries, America.

I said Africa famine countries, not so much Africa beautiful continent.

You all also belong to the British Europe, America.

I pledge to all USA, America, everywhere.

Now, I want to take my hat off and say I want to thank the good lord for making me um a Trumper.

I want to thank the good Lord for making me a voter of MAGA, his MAGASTE, America First President, Donald John Trump.

I think, I hope, and that's my disclaimer.

And uh, like a famous North American soccer league soccer league player once said, me thinking.

Now, some America first policies that make it um rest uh reduce hate and jealousy in our community and country.

And what is that?

Well, we've had so much immigrant access.

We should distinguish citizenry for black people, white people, and also people from my home country that were here before the end of the Cold War.

If elected, I'll work on this to reduce jealousy, hate these type of policy.

Another America first policy that the Trump administration did this past week is H1B applicants.

You have to now pay 100,000 employers, so you don't screw a lot of us.

Um USA Americans, so we will get more opportunities for these um these type of jobs.

Very good policy that the Trump administration passed.

Now, Dems are huge elitists.

The true oligarchy are the Epstein Repsteins, Kagan, Vogel, Friedson, Glass, Elridge, the Tacoma Tres Lacking, Kate Stewart, Elrich, Epstein, Repstein, Raskin.

These are the true oligarchy authoritarian folks.

Now, our National Guard or US Army, these are very decent men.

We are good.

We are good people.

Uh USA soldiers, military are good people.

So they are not uh what you guys keep promoting.

Thank you very much.

Uh sorry, we have to thank you.

I appreciate your testimony.

So anyone else in the room who would like to speak.

Welcome.

Please state your name and whether you live in the city of Rockville.

Hello, my name is Chris Madden.

Um, I live in King Farm.

Um, first, I would like to um disavow.

I do not know or talk to that man.

I've talked to him once.

Um, I do not disagree with any of his ideas.

He is not part of the Rockville Runners United movement.

Um just want to get that out of the way first, as he called me out.

Um I would like to thank this council for um not bringing up the decorum issue.

Um it's and I'd like to thank Barry Jackson in particular for defending the First Amendment in these drying times with the federal government facing so much pressure on silencing comedians and firing people for undue things and restricting the freedom of speech.

Um, because this council, this city deserves better.

You you all have the power to do so much good on this council and help the people of Rockville so much.

And we're in a very trying time right now.

We have federal employee, we we have one of the highest concentrations of fellow employees probably in the country, um, with NIH just around the corner.

And there's another mass firing being threatened in two days after the budget cuts, and those people need security.

Those people need to make sure that their community is going to take care of them, uh, no matter what happens at the federal level.

We need to come together.

We have bigger issues to talk about than decorum.

We have issues about affordability, we have people about housing, children coming up and speaking out here.

It's crazy.

Like we need to work on our actual issues, not just hurt feelings.

Thank you.

Bye.

Thank you for your testimony.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak?

I think I saw okay, Mr.

Scott and uh former Councilmember Persha.

Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council members.

Um, just a little ad lib here.

I am in my wife are members of the Freedom Forum.

We just went to uh dinner a few nights ago, and uh Freedom Forum really promotes the First Amendment.

And um, so I I just want to let you know that um on October 11th, there's going to be what they call a 1A fest in DC, and 1A stands for the First Amendment.

So if you all want to go to the Freedom Forum website, you can find out about that.

At the dinner the other night, there was um brief remark about Los Angeles City Council apparently had kind of the same issue and was going to try the same approach, and it just didn't go anywhere.

And so you have to be very aware of the First Amendment rights.

Okay.

And now I'm gonna shamelessly segue into um Pureless Rockville's part of their uh three-minute presentation they didn't have a chance to get, but I do agree with these following three paragraphs.

Uh the King Farm Work Session tonight relates to historic preservation element 9.2, which speaks to finding suitable uses for city-owned historic properties.

Puralist Rockville enthusiastically supports reuse and reactivation of this special property, but we ask you to cautiously view irreversible and expensive changes occurring to any determination of use.

The word demolition appears in this draft 124 times, but to our knowledge, there are no definitive tenants, assigned spaces or specific uses in place.

Identifying and vetting usage prior to deciding on specific levels of demolition is not just good fiscal and cultural resource stewardship, is a strong tenant of historic preservation practice.

We implore you to keep the history and historic fabric of this property at the forefront.

The HDC Historic District Commission was first briefed on this project on September 18 and have been informed they will next be involved when a plan is fleshed out, and it is time to conduct a courtesy review.

This may be very late in the process.

Puritus Rockville encourages the city to directly engage with partner groups as this undertaking moves forward to include the potential partners and tenants, the King Farm community, other infested organizations such as Pierit's Rockville and Ready, and the HTC to determine realistic and appropriate uses before codifying future innovations into a master plan.

And as you all know, I have a very active interest in the King Farm Farm set.

I will be at your work session uh tonight.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Welcome, Paul Scott.

Good evening, Madam Mayor and uh council.

It's good to see you all this evening.

Uh I'm here to speak to you in my capacity.

My name is Paul Scott, and I'm here to speak to you in the my capacity as elected president of the King Farm Citizen Assembly.

Uh the Citizens Assembly is the homeowners association for King Farm.

King Farm was established in 1997 and is almost 30 years old.

Despite the age of that community, it is a highly sought-after and desirable place to raise children, live and work, play, and retire.

Rockville itself prides itself as a diverse community, and I'm proud to say that you will find no greater diversity than what exists in King Farm.

I'm excited that after 25 years, we might actually start to see the farmstead come into fruition for the good of the city and its residents.

I must commend the city staff, city manager, you your team, uh, with regards to the process that they have conducted, the outreach and the listing sessions from the community regarding the farmstead.

King Farm is a community that will be directly affected by the decisions that the city will make regarding the farmstead and the resultant um uh farmstead master uh planning.

King Farm has approximately 3,400 units under management, um single family homes, townhomes, apartments, and condos.

Our population is close to 8,000 to 10,000 people who again live, work, and play within our boundary.

I also serve on the board of the King Farm Conservancy that consists of representatives from the commercial development and the retail space and other residential developments located in that area.

And we in King Farm are monitoring uh current development activities that may have an impact on our community, including some of the life science development, the continued um uh closing of the Buick King Farm location, some of the development that's occurring over in the Wamata areas, and of course the Goody Drive entrance of the senior center.

And tonight I would like to encourage the mayor and the council to ensure that there's a flexible usage of the farmstead property with minimal impact on the established King Farm community.

The main concern that I want to bring to your attention is to ensure that that minimal impact related to traffic, noise, nuisance, and litter, potential for increase in crime, even though we have a great police department, uh, and parking.

And let's talk about parking.

Uh, I'm encouraging the mayor and the council to place a priority on the following and just consider these issues.

No expansion of the hard top parking on the current farmstead site.

Um, secondly, encouraging parking at the adjacent parking locations uh at Maddie Stepanic uh Park.

Third, encouraging and emphasizing parking at the closely located Shady Grove Metro station, and also perhaps looking into having a shuttle bus service from Shady Park or even Manny Stepanic over to the farmstead.

I want to close by saying the residents of King Farm as well as the residents of the city of Rockville appreciate the work of the city and the staff and the work and the guidance and the direction that the mayor and the council give.

Um you all are good dealing with difficult issues, and we appreciate how you are parsing through them.

Thank you very much.

Is there anyone else in the room who would like to speak?

Okay.

All right.

We have someone who is virtual.

Uh welcome.

Uh Ilsa Bay.

Yeah, Elsa Bay Urban.

Can you hear me fine?

Welcome, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for having me.

I am um speaking about the uh farmstead development for King Farm.

I live in Rockville across the street from the uh from the farmstead itself.

My window looks straight out onto the community garden and the barn.

I had two particular concerns that I wanted to bring up.

The first was um a concern about mentions of having special events uh related to a possible auditorium or otherwise.

Um, specifically, I'm curious about the frequency and size.

Um, and secondly, uh my and related my regard, uh, my concerns are related to parking.

I would prefer personally, little or no extra parking in the spot.

As Paul Scott just mentioned, the Maddie Stepanic Park has a lot that is 0.2 miles from the entrance to the King Farm Farmstead from there, and it is a well wide and what very accessible path that is well paved.

Um it's also rarely rarely full.

Tonight, when the park was completely full with uh pickleball and tennis courts, et cetera, et cetera, there were only 20 cars in the actual lot, and I would say at least 80% of the lot was free.

Um the other thing I would like to emphasize is I think any new parking, were there to be any should be have an entrance on the 355 side so that it does not come through the neighborhood.

Um thing about King Farm is it was established as a pedestrian family uh friendly community.

And especially since COVID, the path that goes in front of King Farm is a heavily used walking trail.

Um so I'm not just concerned about bringing extra um traffic into the neighborhood, but if there was an entrance on that side, um that means that people and cars are going to have more um potential for um conflict.

My son was just hit on 355 by a car coming out of a parking lot last week.

I would also like to say that that field on the side with the community garden is much more heavily used than the one on 355.

If you're going to talk about historical preservation, I think looking at that side is more useful than the one being seen for as people drive by at 45 to 50 miles an hour.

The one close to 355, I don't see a timer, I'm sorry, is very noisy and loud and an unpleasant place to be.

Whereas the one on this side of the barn is more much more frequently used by dog walkers, people with kids, picnics during the winter time.

It is frequently used for sledding on the smalls on the small slopes.

And that's about it.

Thank you very much.

Right on time.

Thank you.

All right.

That exhausts everyone who has signed up in advance and those who have raised their hands in the room.

Thank you all for your opportunity to testify.

I want to open the floor to Robert Dawson, city attorney.

So I just want to make a very quick statement that the um the purpose of the rules of decorum, which were pulled from this evening's agenda, were drafted by the Office of the City Attorney without input from any member of Mayor and Council.

And the purpose of the poll rules of procedure was for the mayor and council to consider adopting reasonable, content, neutral time, place and matter restrictions to facilitate the body's interest in orderly efficient and productive meetings.

And it was not for the purpose of violating the First Amendment rights of any community members, particularly the viewpoints of those community members.

And I just wanted to say that for the body.

Thank you, Mr.

Jelson.

I appreciate that.

Okay.

That uh now concludes community forum.

Councilmember Jackson, do you have a question?

Uh thank you, um, Mayor.

Uh, just as a little statement, because uh uh my name was uh mentioned uh several times uh during community forum, and I appreciate um what they had to say about uh my comments on the First Amendment.

But I wanted to address the decorum issue.

Um, you know, yes, I have First Amendment concerns, as do other members of the council, and that includes Marissa Valeri.

Uh I just want to clarify that I support free speech, I support goblins for decorum.

I don't believe that the two are incompatible.

Uh I voted to pull the uh item because it included more than just decorum, and I didn't think we had enough time uh to read it.

But this is something we have discussed for a long time.

It isn't just something that uh was was uh written uh this week.

My colleague Marissa Valeri is unfairly being singled out when I know she's one of the biggest supporters of free speech and is just looking for a way for everyone to feel safe and speak their minds in this chamber.

I think that is something that we all want to work towards.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Van Grack.

Just to add to that, because um I'm someone who truly believes that any substantive restrictions on free speech and community forum are significant problem.

There should not be any restrictions that could be judged in any way with regard to eliminating content.

But importantly, I think it's to be said because the whole body was addressed here, every single person on this dais this morning during the leadership planning meeting, specifically not only voted to pull it, but had impassioned speeches as to why the broad restrictions on speech should not be done with community forum.

And importantly, that polling was initiated by council member Melissa Valeri, who led us in actually specifically moving to pull it.

I think every single member of this body specifically um wants to uphold free speech and make sure that there's no improper curtailing of people's speech here at community forum.

And I truly believe that every single one of my colleagues has that view.

Thank you.

I appreciate everyone's councilmember Shaw.

I did want to thank everyone who spoke at community forum, and I want to thank the community members who did uh speak and uphold uh our First Amendment rights, uh, just like this body as well.

Um, I do think that we need to figure out ways to be able to discuss issues uh in an open forum, but I do think um I do think there is a shared value around freedom of speech.

With that being said, I do want to share what I did share this morning, which was um decorum has been used throughout history uh in the civil rights movement in particular uh to suppress uh folks that are fighting for their civil rights.

Um particularly around tone and tenor, um, as was shared uh previously from a member here.

Um so I do think it's important that we look at how we we do decorum.

Um and I was also pretty troubled by um some of the stories that community have shared around one of my colleagues' behavior out in the community.

And I think um this has been raised several times.

We received uh some some emails on that behavior, and I do think it does need to be addressed.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Okay.

All right, so I just wanted to uh close this community forum and say uh we, the mayor and council, uh plan an agenda and we flex on time because we believe in free speech.

I know not everybody does that.

Uh there are some bodies that have limited time and don't you know cut off how many people can sign up.

Um we have not done that because we believe in free speech.

We believe in the importance of democracy.

Uh I want to thank my colleagues for sharing their perspectives.

Uh, I want to thank the residents for sharing their perspectives.

I want to acknowledge the moment that we're in when we're looking at things nationally and seeing uh you know things that are happening that are troubling.

Uh I do know that my colleagues do not have that intent.

The intent is to uh try to create a safe place for everyone to be able to provide comments and for us to listen.

And uh I know that um there was some concern about what decorum means, and I think it's that the spirit of it is trying to create a safe place so that everyone has an opportunity to speak, no matter what whether they agree with each other, with us, with staff, uh we sit and we listen, and that is what we're continuing to committed to continue to do.

So I want to thank my colleagues, thank you, staff, and thank you, especially our residents.

We are going to take a quick break.

Um, I want to thank everyone for being here with us, and I want to thank you for the patience for the Transportation Mobility Committee.

Good evening, Rockville.

Today is still September 29th, 2025.

Thank you for your patience during our short break.

We're now moving on to meeting well, reconvening meeting 23-25 and moving on to consent agenda item nine.

Uh A, appointments of Manisha Tawari, planning and research manager of community planning and development services as the Rockville representative to the Town Square Condominium Board, replacing the prior deputy director of CPDS.

We have 9B, award and authorize the city manager to execute a contract with Atkins Realis USA for the purchase of enterprise asset management and customer relationship management software and support.

C, authorize a city manager to enter into a service agreement with the off-duty management to schedule invoice and provide reimbursements to the city of Rockville when off-duty Rockville City Police Department officers are hired to provide security services at events in the city of Rockville.

And D ratify and authorize the city manager to execute a Maryland State Art Council's grants agreement for grants for organizations for city managed arts programs.

9E approve the amended and restated memorandum of understanding with Montgomery County for Transportation Impact Taxes for New Development and Rockville, and then F approval of minutes.

I will turn it to my colleagues to see if there are any items that need to be pulled.

Councilman Van Greg.

Madam Mayor, I just would like to pull for just a few questions, items of B and C.

Okay, thank you.

And is there any other okay?

I just have one question also about the uh impact tax MOU.

So that is item E.

So with that said, um let's open with questions so that we can just approve them all together.

How about that?

All right, Councilman Van Grack.

Um, so um uh Mr.

City Manager, with regard to item B.

I know I read through it was in the packet, uh, everything seems to be in order, but I know this is also a pretty significant expenditure of over $600,000 and it's a responsive to an RFP.

Can you just kindly just inform us about the process of the RFP, how it went about, and how this uh contract was selected.

You bet if it's okay, also describe um what you're purchasing.

That might be helpful too.

I I know that it was in our packet, but yes, that also is a helpful context.

Thank you.

Um actually, this is a something that's been a long time in the making.

It's really to take care of our people and to take care of our assets.

Maybe I'll talk about the people first.

Right now, um, it is a bit challenging for people to reach out to us to provide um concerns, complaints, and ask questions without either directly dealing directly with staff or sending an email, et cetera.

There's no automated system.

And what we really need to create is a customer relationship management software system, and that's exactly what this does.

It provides um residents with the opportunity to um ask questions, to make suggestions about things like potholes, et cetera, et cetera, and for us to schedule those things, provide people with real-time updates and then make sure all that work gets done, and more importantly, it allows us to look for trends to see if we need to do a little bit better job in some of those spaces.

The asset management software is actually uh an ability for us to make sure we're taking greater care of our infrastructure.

Right now we have various spreadsheets and notebooks, et cetera, where we're keeping um really handwritten records or into a spreadsheet where we really don't have a way to make sure that all of our assets, water lines, sewer lines, roadways, et cetera, have a way to meaningfully provide input to make sure that when we do maintenance that we have good records, or when we need additional maintenance.

So that's what those two software packages are about.

We did follow our procurement process, we did go out for bid and we're able to select one company that actually can provide both of those services in one.

And and so therefore it was uh more economical for the city to have essentially one contractor as opposed to multiple.

One contractor and ultimately both of these um new services will provide um actually savings for the city, so it'll pay for itself in a number of years.

Excellent.

Madam Mayor, I have no more questions on this side.

Thank you.

I have a question on item B or more of a comment.

So I will just note that asset management has been on the wish list of I believe staff for a number of years.

Uh I see some shaking heads.

15.

Um, and so I I just I know that this was something that is a long time coming.

I'm excited about the CRM, uh, this body, Matt, to talk about uh strategic planning and one of the things we want to do with the city is increasing sufficiency, increasing transparency.

And it's my understanding with the CRM, you'll be able to track resident concerns and requests more carefully, and it'll be systematized, and people can see you submitted something that's not a black hole, or you have to manually for staff to come back, but you can see where uh things are in the process.

Is that correct?

That's correct, they'll get real-time updates.

Okay.

Council might love that too.

Yep.

Agreed.

But I just want to say there are so many residents who report a concern, it's still available tool and send things to us via email.

So I think this is going to be a fantastic opportunity for us to be more effective, efficient, and transparent government.

Um, so I appreciate the work on this as well as the asset management.

Okay.

Um, did you have a question on uh C?

Yeah, C.

Um, I just want to clarify something.

Uh I believe I interpreted from the documents, but I just want to clarify this um agreement that we're doing with off duty management with regard to the um police department is completely budget neutral, meaning that there is not going to be an impact to our budget with regard to um how we impact that.

Is that correct?

It's budget neutral, but it actually creates efficiencies and more opportunities for us to do other work, public safety work, instead of putting um handwritten documents into a binder.

And so the other the other follow-up here is because I know this program and what we're trying to do more efficiently is a fantastic thing that the Rockville City Police Department does with regard to off-duty.

Can you explain a little bit about this process and how if the public wants to engage with the police department regarding this aspect, they can do so?

Yeah, I'm happy to do that.

So there's many um positive aspects for this.

There are times when a business, uh a not-for-profit organization, et cetera, would have an event where they would love to have additional police services there.

And instead of us having to try to cover that with overtime, et cetera, they can enter an agreement with the city through this software package so they can request officers to be on site, provide that security.

Um, this is a much more streamlined way to do it.

It's automated, we can send invoices, etc.

Second thing it does is it provides more opportunities for officers to be out in the community.

And then thirdly, it really provides candidly and officers with um an opportunity on a voluntary basis to pick up some extra hours and frankly get some additional money for themselves and their family.

So if the public is interested about participating in that and trying to utilize this program, how would they go about doing so?

What's the easiest way?

Yeah, they should send an email to the uh uh chief of police.

Who whom I know is here also in the uh audience.

So thank you for being here, Jay.

Thank you.

And I would just note it's been used for special events sometimes, uh also for uh stores who wanted additional security.

So uh and then you guys will manually doing everything.

So this is going to be cost neutral, but take away this the burden of having to invoice and manage receipts.

So I appreciate that you're freeing up staff time so they can focus on public safety, but also not costing the city additional money.

Um I had a question about first of all, I just want to say kudos and thank you for uh the tax reimbursement, uh, impact tax reimbursement MOU, as I mentioned earlier, it's seven years in the making.

Um I think it's very solid.

Uh the only question I have is we had an existing MOU where we were supposed to be reimbursed about a million dollars.

Uh, and so where will that stand in relation to the MOU so that we can make sure that Rockville is getting paid back for that?

Yeah.

Um so this MOU replaces the old one.

Um so it'll make it easier for us to uh receive payment for projects that we are seeking reimbursement, including the million dollars that we've been um putting in for uh requests for reimbursement.

So it'll happen um very quickly after this is approved both by this body and the county council.

Thank you.

And just for transparency, I believe it's uh 6535 split.

So the city will get 65 percent for projects that happen to do transportation, and the county would get 35 percent.

They will focus mostly on the BRT, is what I understand.

That's correct, which will significantly benefit the residents of the city of Rockville.

Thank you.

Okay.

Are there any more questions and looking for Dr.

Miles?

Are you good?

Okay.

All right.

Uh, do we have a motion to approve?

Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, I move to approve consent items.

Uh consent agenda items A, B, C, D, E, and F.

Do we have a second?

Councilmember Valerie Seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to our work session and want to thank the Transportation and Mobility Commission for their patience.

We will now hear their annual report.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

I'll bet you all saw me sitting there thinking I was going to talk about something else this evening.

But here I am to talk about the Transportation Mobility Commission.

I'm Jeff Gance.

I am a lifelong member of the City of Rockville, having been here will be 58 years this November.

And it is my pleasure and honor to serve on the Transportation Mobility Commission under our amazing chair, Kathleen Kleiman, our other members, and the fantastic Brian Barnett Woods, who is just unbelievably amazing and uh such an asset to the city of Rockville.

Um the Transportation Mobility Commission or the TMC is a mayor and council appointed commission that focuses on walking, rolling, bicycling, transit, and driving in the city of Rockville.

Um, and we serve to provide guidance uh to the mayor and council and planning commission as it relates to multimodal transportation issues in the city.

Um we have over the past year submitted comments and recommendations on many topics to the mayor and council and city and staff in which those letters were part of your 340-page packet that you had for today's meeting.

So hopefully you manage to see those among everything else that you had.

But there are topics such as red light, camera enforcement, transportation comments and considerations for the Rockville Metro Rail Station, uh, residential parking permit uh areas, um, the regional roadway safety programs, um, funding for multimodal transportation improvements, uh, the Congressional Lane Complete Street Study and the East Jefferson Street and Halpine Road Bicycle study and design project.

Um serving the city of Rockville.

We are a dedicated informed resident-led commission that can provide the mayor and council with additional comments and recommendations from the community regarding a variety of transportation projects.

Uh, we regularly hear from um uh the community from transportation enforcement policy experts uh and are educated on current topics and actively participate in the city's transportation and vision zero projects.

Um our guiding principles uh are to uh increase accessibility for people of all abilities and expand multimodal facilities.

Um, and we uh focus on multimodal safety, accessibility, transportation infrastructure for the community.

Um vision zero is is obviously a very important topic, uh vulnerable roadway users and meeting needs for all types of travel and mobility is very important, not just to us, but to all of those in the city of Rockville.

Um we seek our direction from the Rockville Mayor and Council, and we are committed to help Rockville build an inclusive and accessible transportation system for all users.

Um we have chosen two items to focus uh additional efforts to help advance equitable and multimodal transportation in Rockville.

Um the first focus area is to improve transportation policies related to land development.

Um we've invited staff to discuss ongoing zoning ordinance rewrites, the comprehensive transportation review, chapter 21 road code update, um, and continue to provide comments and suggestions to the city and mayor and council for better policy outcomes.

And a second focus uh is to provide better guidance to improve transit use in the city.

It includes tracking, providing guidance on Vero's Mill Road and the 355 bus rapid transit projects.

Um, and one member of the TMC participates in the county citizen advisory committee for the 355 bus rapid transit project.

And additionally, we look to identify improvement for local transit, including raising issues and considerations for the city to undertake to improve the experience for people using bus and rail transit.

Um we regularly view city master plan drafts and large developmental applications, city projects, um, and we raise transportation related concerns to the mayor and council.

Uh there are many um projects on which we provided guidance.

I won't go through them all, but they're in your your list.

You have a table there of the many projects that we have um uh provide guidance on, and uh we also support the city's work program to seek and obtain uh external funding for transportation projects, and we've provided letters of support for many grant applications as well, which you also have in your packet um the the projects or the grant opportunities that we have supported.

Um we have eight members on our commission at this time.

Um we have our wonderful uh councilmember Valeri, who is our uh current council liaison to the TMZ, and as I mentioned earlier, Brian Burnett Woods, who's a principal transportation planner for the Department of Public Works and is our current staff liaison.

Um prior to March 2023, we were known as the Traffic and Transportation Commission, um, and we were established by the mayor and council by resolution in 1972, um, and we were renamed to the um Transportation Mobility Commission uh um in 2023.

Um in addition to changing the commission's name, the mayor and council did refine our responsibilities in ordinance number 423.

I won't go through them all, but uh we do have quite a bit of responsibility uh as the commission.

We meet the fourth Tuesday of every month.

Meetings are normally held virtually at 7 p.m.

In some instances, they are held in person uh here at City Hall, and uh residents and interested stakeholders are welcome to attend our meeting agenda as well as a link for virtual attendance are posted to the city's online agenda center center and calendar prior to the meeting.

Uh all meetings do include a community forum agenda item.

Um, and Rockville residents and stakeholders are welcome to attend and raise transportation-related issues with the TMC.

Uh, other regular agenda items include updates on city transportation, capital improvement projects, ongoing transportation maintenance projects, and the work program of the traffic and transportation division.

Uh we receive presentations from other city departments and agencies as well, um, including community planning, development services committee, Rockville City Police Department, and lastly, we receive presentations from property development applicants if the subject development uh applications generate a certain threshold of new automobile trips consistent with the comprehensive transportation review.

Um I appreciate uh your time this evening and uh again uh very pleased to serve on this committee and would like to once again thank Kathleen for her amazing job as chair for the years that I have been on the committee and hopefully going forward as well.

So thank you.

Just want to say thank you very, very much for all the volunteer hours that you provide on behalf of our entire council.

Um we have the setup of special presentation, so if there are any questions, our colleagues send them to Mr.

Mihaili.

But um actually, hold on.

Are we answering questions here?

Hold on.

Mr.

Mahalek, do you want questions?

We can entertain a handful of questions since we have big items out tonight.

Okay, great.

Um let's move to Councilmember Leary.

Thank you so much.

Um I am beyond honored to be the council, mayor and council liaison to the Transportation Mobility uh Commission.

They are, and I'm not just saying that because they're here, but some of the hardest working volunteers in the city, and what always strikes me is the absolute breadth of knowledge and perspectives that the commission brings to the table.

Um, and you know, I'm always I'm always kicking myself a little when I have to meet miss a meeting because there's always been an opportunity to learn from the discussions or to kind of see where their work connects um to other uh aspects of the work.

So I just want to um add on to the kudos.

Of course, eternal kudos and gold star as well to um the staff liaison, uh Mr.

Brian Barnett Woods, who um is just an absolute rock star, so I have no doubt.

You know, these are two rock star groups working together.

Um when you kind of um included in there, you know, ways that the mayor and council can kind of you know uh provide guidance or or anything uh of that nature.

There's something that kind of struck me when I was looking through, which by the way, is one of the best um uh annual reports that I've seen from a commission.

It just kind of lays out everything you guys are are working on.

Um what I did note, and it might be a good place um for the commission to to look at what's going on and provide some feedback, would be to have um this commission look at um as we progress in the King Farm Farmstead project.

Um, and you've heard here and we've heard um that there are some concerns around, you know, maybe um the the level of parking, but maybe more so on mobility in and around the farmstead.

I think that that would be uh phenomenal to kind of get the the feedback from the commission on that.

Um that's my big one, but I just want to I'll stop there and say thank you as always to um the both of you and to the entire commission, and of course, Mr.

Brian Barnett Woods.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, uh Mayor.

I'll be uh brief because I know we have to move on, but uh I just want to uh say thank you to uh uh Kathleen and other members of the commission.

Uh you know, I'm really um pleased that um you know Rockville has uh embraced uh diversity uh and when I say diversity, you know, um walking is important, but also rolling and uh uh uh being um in a wheelchair uh gives you a different perspective um when you uh don't have the mobility that maybe others take for granted.

And so Kathleen taking the the chairmanship or chair um of this committee is really important because she gives a new perspective and uh then it's really a feel fierce advocate um for um you know those who have uh various degrees of mobility and so I really think that's important because not a lot of cities have that and have that perspective and then take that perspective and advocate for it in the city.

And so I thank you for that, and I thank all of the commission uh for that.

And uh as has been said, uh Brian does a great job in being uh a good advocate and working with the committee and then trying to uh take what is discussed and making it uh into reality.

And I would be remiss um to say that uh we do have one former member of the commission uh here and Paul Scott.

Uh he's now the uh president of the King Farm Citizen Assembly.

But before he was uh uh vice chair of the citizens of assembly and was on the commission, and I know he did a lot of work uh for the uh commission.

So thank you, uh Paul for that.

And with that, I'll yield back.

Uh I will just uh book in and say thank you again.

Uh we really really appreciate it.

I just wanted to also say two things.

One is we're coming up on the state legislative session.

Uh and so really appreciate when our commissions share things that you want us to take a look at.

We do have a formal process to review things, but I know some commissions really like to share suggestions with the mayor and council, and we'll be looking for that.

And I just want to thank you for your uh advocacy and support on ADA.

Uh, that's the American Disabilities Act.

The city is has been making a number of changes all throughout, and we'll continue to have discussion about a prioritization plan and make sure that we're making Rockville safe to walk roll bike uh drive for everybody.

Uh so thank you again for all the hard work you you have, and thank you to our staff as well.

Um, we have some very great uh ambitious projects on Vision Zero, and I should also say this transparency, you can see where we are and track our performance online.

Uh, but I will just end what's the most exciting thing I heard about the Vision Zero.

There was a lot in there, but to have a street removed from the high injury network, we know people have been injured and not have that be the case now is life-changing.

So thank you.

Okay.

Is there anything you want to say, Mr.

Good evening?

I'm Brian Barnett Woods, the principal of transportation plan with the Department of Public Works.

I just want to thank Jeff Gans for uh taking the time and uh leading the presentation.

I was happy to flip through the slides for him.

I also want to recognize uh Chair Kleiman from the Commission is here as well as Irene Bowen, um Jerry Sishi, and then Paul Scott, who's mentioned as a former member.

So thank you all for coming.

Since you have the mic, do you want to plug Walktober?

Sure.

Next, I guess in a couple days starts uh Walktober, which is the state's annual kind of recognition of uh pedestrian transportation in Maryland.

Um the Maryland Department of Transportation has a series of webinars, which they're calling walkinars that people can uh watch each week.

Uh the city and the Rockville Pedestrian Advocacy Committee will be leading a community walk in the Twinbrook neighborhood on the 16th, and then there'll be a uh Vision Zero or excuse me, a um a candlelight vigil for remembrance of victims of traffic traffic violence on the 30th.

Um so we hope everyone can attend.

Thank you.

Great work all around.

We'll now be moving on to uh agenda item 12B, the King Farm Farm's dead master plan.

Did you give the phase I said?

Did you get the presentation?

Are we ready?

Not yet.

Okay.

If you all need us to take a break, just let us know.

Okay.

Well, I'd like to introduce uh Mike Stover, who is our consultant, as well as Tara Stewart, who's been very, very busy on all things recreation and parts.

Thank you both.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Good evening.

Um I'm Tara Stewart, Director of Recreation and Parks, and uh we are excited to be back uh for tonight's work session um to discuss the King Farm Farmstead Master Plan.

Try the double.

Okay.

There we go.

Apologies.

All right.

Um, so before you is an outline of what will be covered in tonight's session.

We'll review the work session's purpose and expected outcomes, highlight the project's alignment with the mayor and council's guiding principles.

We'll review areas that need your feedback regarding the master plan and our project's next steps.

We'll also highlight the project's community engagement process and review the community's preferences for building uses and programs.

And we'll review the mayor and council's direction from our last session, review refined building use concepts, and discuss the results of the cost construction estimation and operating cost analysis.

Additionally, we hope to confirm your direction on which building uses will move forward to implementation, as well as confirm any recommendations you may have for finalizing the master plan.

So the King Farm Farm Sare project directly aligns with the mayor and council's core commitments and focus areas, including economic development, effective and efficient service delivery, public safety, and stewardship of the environment and infrastructure.

During our work session this evening, we're looking for the following feedback from the mayor and council.

Which dairy barn option do you recommend moving to the implementation phase?

And that would be option four, which includes the addition, or without the addition, which was option two.

Do you support phasing project implementation over the next five to 15 years?

And do you support the proposed approach for phasing the projects?

And we'll present two options later in the presentation.

So over the last 11 months, the Department of Recreation and Parks has made great progress to move the project forward to include engaging the community in a process to identify their desired building uses and programs for the Farmstead Park.

We launched this process with an initial work session in October 2024, followed by the development of a community engagement plan working with our communications and community engagement department.

In January, we launched the King Farm Farmstead Engaged Rockville website, which served as our one-stop shop for all things King Farm related to the history of the site as well as the city's work to date to assess and recommend uses for the park.

At the same time, we also launched our outreach and communication using city resources to inform the community about the project and our engagement process.

In the spring, we hosted five community visioning sessions to capture initial feedback regarding the desired programs and services, followed by three community filtering sessions hosted in May and June, where we presented potential building use options and programs based on the feedback that we received in the earlier visioning sessions.

In July, we presented a project update and concept review work session.

And since then, the preferred building use and program options were further reviewed using operational cost analysis and construction cost estimation.

Tonight we're here to present results of the analysis and cost construction estimation and to request the mayor and council's feedback to finalize the parks master plan.

Our goal is to wrap up the current planning process with adoption of the master plan on October 20th.

As mentioned, the project included a robust community engagement process with a goal of reaching as many residents living throughout the city as possible.

In addition to our in-person and virtual sessions, we also collected community feedback via online and hard copy surveys and promoted info about the project via monthly email updates as well as posting flyers and posters in city buildings.

During the community engagement process, residents shared their preferences for building uses and programs to be offered at the farmstead.

This included incorporating a multi-purpose hall to host a variety of events and programs, multi-purpose rooms for community meetings, smaller events and classes, spaces for wellness opportunities, arts and technology and makerspaces, a community teaching kitchen, and spaces for child care, youth and teen programming.

We presented four options for building uses, which ranged in implementation impact from minimum to high intervention.

The community responded most favorably to option four, which was high intervention, and option two, medium intervention.

This next slide just visually demonstrates some of the community's feedback around options two and four for the dairy barns, with option four, which included the addition taking the lead in the community's votes.

For the horse barn, the preferences were to provide additional flexible and multi-use spaces that can possibly hold wellness programming, events, or rehearsal spaces for arts groups.

For the tenant houses and garage, the preferences were for these buildings to be used as community maker spaces.

And finally, the farmhouse was proposed to be used for child care.

During our last work session, we received the following feedback from the mayor and council.

Incorporate arts, culture, and education, honoring and highlighting the farmstead's history.

Prioritize flexible and accessible spaces with the highest potential for community use.

Explore options for utilizing the farmhouse for child care.

Preserve the existing community gardens, and expand opportunities for more gardens throughout the city.

Activate existing green spaces and overall connectivity to buildings and structures.

And demonstrate fiscal responsibility utilizing a phased approach for project implementation.

So now we're going to turn the presentation over to Mike Stover from our consultant team, Design Collective to review refined building concepts, operational cost analysis, and estimated cost, estimated construction costs for the buildings and structures.

Hello.

Thank you.

Hello.

Yes, I'm going to start with introducing our new plan.

So we started with the option four and developed that further based on the comments we received in the last work session.

In this option, you can see we move the daycare to the farmhouse as requested.

The garage and tenant houses are dedicated maker spaces.

The horse barn was proposed to be a multi-purpose hall as well as contain two smaller multi-purpose rooms on one end.

We combine that also with the tenant house to be uh to use the tenant house as uh utility space, the bathrooms, some storage, things like that, so that we can maximize the multi-purpose space within the uh horse barn itself.

And then the dairy barns, there's a lot going on there.

I'm gonna get into the dairy.

I'm sorry, yeah, the dairy barns in more detail as we go on.

So this slide, uh, we wanted to address the the historic uh approach to the site.

Um history was stressed over and over again by the community, and we want to make sure that we address it.

We are at a very high level uh right now, and some of the real the historic approach will be at a finer level of detail, but we want to look at this kind of at the broad stroke.

And the idea here is that we designate a historic corridor along the driveway, focusing uh the uh any intervention that would be along that corridor, minimizing the the impact of those interventions only to things that need be there to meet code requirements.

The areas on the opposite side of the building would then give potential for larger interventions for uh uh improvements that are needed for function as well as other uh higher accessibility and other uh requirements needed to make the buildings uh useful.

On this side, we have uh the site plan of the farmstead.

And one of the things we want to stress here is the access or or the um how Elmcroft terminates on the dairy barns right now.

Uh we think this has great potential for connectivity to the community, but right now it's it's a large berm and uh not very accessible.

Uh in this plan, we're proposing access, both a stair and a ramp for access to the dairy barns from this side of the building.

We also want to address concerns about parking.

Uh we've heard some of that earlier today, and uh right now that we are just proposing options, and these things can be addressed uh in in the future, but we want to we didn't want to ignore the fact that parking is important.

So we've addressed it here with two options.

So let's go through the the buildings.

So the farmhouse uh converting it to a uh daycare will use the first and second levels.

Um there'll be a playground that's required as part of the daycare that will have to be located, accessibility, including a ramp, elevator, and accessible bathrooms are all required to make the farmhouse function as a daycare.

So a new configuration will be needed for the space.

The tenant houses in the garage are considered uh for maker spaces.

The tenant house, we're considering the clean maker space, so that would be more maybe technology-based, and the garage would be the dusty, dirty maker space.

Um, and both of them will require envelope and accessibility and uh code improvements.

The horse barn uh we discussed earlier, and we have a little perspective here to kind of show you what it would be from the outside and how the addition would be set back so that the historic elevations of the horse barn and the tenant house would be prominent.

And here we just have a small glass vestibule in between the two buildings so that they can be connected and function together.

All these would have to be approved, you know, reviewed and approved by the historic district commission.

This is just a proposal now, and it will have to go for review.

And here we get a view of the inside.

So that limits the functionality of the horse barn as it is currently.

In this proposal, we're doing a free span A-frame structure that will enable multiple uses within the larger space.

Okay, the dairy barns.

Now in the previous one, we we had daycare in the dairy barns, that's been relocated, and in that place we've located Art Studios on the north north bar.

Can you see my cursor?

Is that possible?

No, okay.

All right, I'll just have to describe it.

Um the addition has been added to the east side of the courtyard.

That uh multipurpose hall has also been extended into the dairy barns, opening up that two story space into the to the northern dairy barn.

The kitchen has been located in between the multi-purpose room on the back side where that those two spaces can function together, as well as the kitchen also support the multi-purpose hall, and it also has a connection to the courtyard so that all those spaces can function together.

Here we have an auditorium space.

Uh it's a small auditorium space, it would seat about a hundred people with this uh stage that could be removable.

And then on the second floor, we have multi-purpose rooms.

Uh, these multipurpose rooms connect to the visually to the end, also with a stair down to the multipurpose hall, and also are connected to the multi-purpose auditorium.

So I'm just gonna kind of give you a 3D view of the the dairy barns now with the addition.

So this is the first floor, and we've used the same color code that we used in the plan, so you can get an idea of the spaces and how they're all connected and work together.

Here's the second floor, and you can see how the auditorium space flows up into the second floor multi-purpose space, and how the multi-purpose space can look down into the auditorium.

And the the yellow bar there is a bridge that connects both sides of the dairy bar and wings.

Currently, they're not connected, and to make both wings function, they would both need to have elevators.

This helps the circulation, and it also allows us to do it all with one elevator.

And this I want to uh explain the addition, and then also this the dormer.

Uh, you'll see later in one of the perspectives what the dormer does for our second floor space.

Uh the addition is highlighted in in green here.

You can see that it's located on the east end of the courtyard, and the dormer is on the north bar facing the courtyard, so internal to the building, so it's less visible and not on one of the historic uh corridor elevations.

This is a view from inside the courtyard looking at the addition.

The auditorium spaces to our right, and the uh dormer and the the second story spaces on our left.

Um for everyone's reference, the orange arrow in the plan is where you're standing, and it fans out and fades out.

So the view that you're seeing for everyone's next slide shows an image of the auditorium space.

So we're in the um the southwest corner of the auditorium looking out.

You can see here the second floor has been removed so that we get a taller, grander space and the seating terraces up to the second floor.

This is standing inside the north wing of the uh dairy barn, looking across the new addition over to the other side of the uh southern dairy barn in the distance.

And you can see the bridge bridge on our right hand side.

And here we are in the second floor multi-purpose space.

The dormer is what's enabled us to have these windows on this floor.

Uh without the dormer, it would be like we have on the left hand side.

There's no, there's wouldn't be a possibility of windows, and it it would be kind of a uh darker space.

It would also be a smaller footprint because the ceiling height uh where those windows are now would be too low, and um so by opening up that dormer, we get both daylight and we also get more usable space on the second floor.

And here's the view from Elmcroft looking up.

I think anybody who's been to to King Farm knows that that has a nice axes right onto the the uh dairy barns right now, and you can see that that hill is is pretty steep.

So we've added that uh walkway, and that's included in in the budget uh proposal uh with a ramp that goes up to a terrace and uh potential entrance from that this side directly to the community.

All right, so we're gonna get into the economic analysis.

Um the analysis started started by identifying constraints, and currently the parking on site is one of the is the major constraint on the number of activity activities or occupants that can be on site.

Uh the schedule is then subject to the parking availability.

Um so then event potential, you know, how many people can come for events is also reliant on parking.

Uh event and class fee potential was estimated for for the uh for this approach, and um adjustments were based on seasonality and uh periods of less enrollment.

Uh staffing was assumed to be adjusted based on on the scale of activity and operating expenses uh are are allocated by building.

We uh we use all that then to determine our cost recovery ratios.

So we have three different scenarios.

The first scenario is based on the existing parking, which includes 47 spaces, and in this uh scenario, we are assuming that the farmhouse, the horse barn, and the tenant houses and garages are up and running in this first scenario because that's what the 47 spaces allows.

That was a question earlier, and that's that's why that is limited in this in this uh version.

Uh limited parking added.

So if if 44 spaces were added to the site for a total of 91, um that assumes that the dairy barn could have smaller uh a smaller event capacity.

Um that would also include the the previous things, the the farmhouse, uh the horse barn, tenant houses, and garages were up and running.

And then the third scenario is the ex with expanded parking.

So that is uh assuming that we can get another 100 to 120 spaces for events where the um the um dairy barns would be able to have their full uh capacity at that point.

So with our existing parking, you can see here our utilization.

We have 12 classes, uh, 14 uh weekend classes.

Uh the events are are zero in this because our parking is limited, and um I guess the weekend events are at 360, and then summer camps are at 10 weeks.

Um I can go through each one, but you guys can read as well.

But uh limited parking, we're up we increased to 21 because the parking allows it.

Then uh we the the weekend classes go up to or still at 14.

The weekend events can increase because of the increased parking.

And um, I'm not sure where the one quick point of clarification.

This is not factor in parking at Matty Stepanic Park or is only factoring the 47.

No, it only factors the parking on site.

Okay, and you don't anticipate using the parking at Maddie Sepanic Park.

I think by zoning, we are required to have on-site parking.

But I think that could be considered.

That's no problem.

Thank you.

So as you can see, in general, utilization increases as the amount of parking increases because we can have more activities on site.

That's the general gist of this.

So because the activity is able to increase, you can also see through the scenarios that the uh direct cost recovery also increases as activities increase.

Um as well.

All right, here's our our summary page for the uh cost estimate.

Um the cost estimate is much more detailed, but this is our our summary.

In here, we've identified costs per building, and we also have an additional uh sum for site work.

I should stress that the site work is a minimum.

Uh we did not look into the actual landscape design for the site, and that will be um uh more than this uh when it's all said and done.

Uh this process is mainly focused on the buildings, but we also wanted to let you know that the site work, even for the buildings will have a requirement.

So uh on the left we have the costs for option four.

That includes the existing building, the uh I'm gonna talk about the dairy barns first, the existing building, the addition is an additional two million, and then the terrace.

So that ramp and stair that we showed at the termination of Elmcroft to get people up onto the the terrace or or the um yeah, the terrace is that 525,000 there.

And the option without the addition, you can see that we have uh the existing building would be about the same.

Uh we would not have the addition, but to enable that connection between the the second floor, we've included a bridge.

Uh that would be just uh a bridge about six feet wide.

It has walls on either side, so it would be conditioned, but that would connect the the second floors.

The horse barn, that that is as it was described in the plans.

So that's the barn and the tenant house connected with the addition, and then the tenant house, the garage, farmhouse, and I I've already described the site work.

Uh there are figures for uh parking lots in this and that's for C and D included in that.

And I should say that C is thought to be a permanent parking space, but but D would be uh reinforced turf so that it would remain uh looking like grass from the outside, but it could be used for events on weekends.

It's uh a plastic reinforcement that allows the grass to um allow for parking, but it it's not meant for daily use, it's really just for occasional use.

Okay.

So those costs are construction costs only, and here we have our assumptions and exclusions.

Uh escalation, so um inflation and things like that.

Um, that's not included uh right now.

These are costs of now uh of currently um right now.

Um soft costs are excluded, that includes your design fees, and then uh soft costs like furniture and and different different other you know other things that are FFE that um are required.

Uh your contingency and for a project like that.

This because there are so many unknowns with an adaptive reuse, uh the contingency is a bit higher than uh typical new construction project, but we think that it's uh safer to be uh conservative on that.

Um hazardous materials.

There's probably definitely gonna be lead paint on site, and we don't know with the garage if there could be anything else, so that would need to be further investigated.

Um permit and development fees, uh utilities, the utilities, the main utilities, uh electricity, water and sewer, have been brought within 10 feet of the buildings.

Um telecommunic telecommunications, I think is still to be determined.

But even with that, there's small fees for for that kind of connection, depending on where where the services need to be.

And then, like I mentioned before, we do have a rough estimate for some of the work for site, but there most likely will be more costs in that that are not included in this current one.

All right.

So we're gonna talk through a couple of phasing project phasing options.

Um so this first option, um, we've included specific buildings, estimated project costs, and the programs and services that would be activated with each phase.

Um these costs do include the estimated design, um, construction and the construction contingencies that Mike just talked about, um, just to uh uh represent uh closer costs.

Um we did our best to prioritize the community's use of the buildings and the current need to address the stability of the horse barn.

With project phasing option one, we recommend implementing improvements to the farmhouse and the horse barn with tenant house one addition within the first phase.

So that would be FY27 through 31.

The estimated cost is about 5.4 million and would position the city to offer child care in the farmhouse and community meetings and events, wellness classes, and summer camps within the horse barn.

For the second phase, we recommend implementing improvements to the garage and tenant house two, along with developing the second asphalt paved parking lot to bring 44 parking spaces to the site to support additional makerspace programming.

The estimated cost for that phase would be 1.6 million.

The final phase focuses on implementing improvements to the dairy barns and grass paved parking capabilities within the open space area.

The dairy barns will include the arts and tech studios, multipurpose rooms and hall for community meetings, classes, and events, a community kitchen, and offer a smaller performing arts space.

Estimated cost for this phase would be 10 to 12 million, depending on which dairy barn option is selected.

So this next slide just provides a visual representation of the three phases that I just spoke about.

The red shaded area represents phase one, which would be the farmhouse and horse barn with the tenant house addition.

The yellow shaded area represented represents phase two, which is the garage tenant house two and asphalt paved area for additional parking.

And the green area represents phase three, the dairy barns and the additional grass paved area.

And failed to mention out of the two options, we did recommend, we do recommend uh option one uh over option two, but we'll get into um the details of option two now.

Um with project phasing option two, we recommend implementing the improvements to the farmhouse, garage, and tenant house two within the first phase.

With that would be FY27 through 31.

Estimated cost is 4.2 million, and we'll position the city to offer child care in the farmhouse and maker spaces in the garage and tenant house two.

For second phase, we recommend implementing improvements to the horse barn and developing the second asphalt-paved parking lot to bring the additional 44 parking spaces to the site to support the additional horse barn programming and events.

The estimated cost for this phase would be 2.9 million.

The final phase focus on implementing the dairy barns, and that price remains the same: 10 to 12 million, depending on which option the mayor and council selected for the dairy barns.

And the next slide shows you the visual representation of those phases.

Red shaded area represents phase one, yellow shaded area represents phase two, and the green area represents the final phase.

So to review our timeline and what will happen next, we will receive feedback and recommendations from the mayor and council regarding your preferences and priorities for phasing the project implementation.

And this information will be compiled and included in the master plan report, which is scheduled for October 20th adoption.

So with that, um, it's time for our uh work session to capture the body's feedback on the following questions.

Our first question which dairy barn option do you recommend moving to the implementation phase?

And that would be option four with the addition or without the addition, which would represent option two.

Thank you very much for the outstanding presentation.

I also want to thank that community who provided feedback a lot of it over many, many sessions.

Uh, organizations, community members from across the city, and I love that you went.

And I love that you went you went to King Farm, you went southern part of the city, western part of the city.

So I just think that it was a fantastic experience in terms of how we can do community feedback and input.

I have some just three clarificate three clarification questions before I can answer these questions, and I'm gonna wait and let my colleagues go first.

But I just for overarching uh clarification questions.

First, well, one is a comment.

I really appreciate that you got HDC to make and park feedback.

Um I don't know if you could just give us the input on what you heard from them in terms of any preferences.

Um that's my my overarching question one.

Yep, so I can summarize that um the historic district commission was obviously um very uh concerned about making sure that the historic um the history of the site is um highlighted, that we are preserving the historic look of the buildings and that they are involved in the process, um, whether that is as we get to the design phase and anything that um is proposed to uh affect the exterior of those uh buildings will have to go through historic district commission review um and approval.

Um so it was just um sharing with them the information uh that we shared during the July 14th um work session and um letting them know that we would be back for engagement with them as the process moves moves along and as required.

Okay, and thank you.

These uh second thing is um the question about the parking uh that can come through conversation, but I was just curious why not be able to use Matty Sopanic Park because there's a lot of parking there.

Right.

So um in our discussions about um parking on the site, um we first wanted to we we heard some feedback from the community um at our last session that there was concern about like parking along the streets that um line the farmstead and that we that they wanted us to minimize that as much as possible.

So we tried to look at the site and prioritize what could be done at the site to support the programming there.

Um while Maddie Stepanic is very close to the King Farm Farmstead, it still requires a walk.

Um and we wanted to uh have that be sort of the secondary overflow if we needed to use it, but not um you know, uh plan the project around relying on parking at Matty Stopanic.

We wanted to make it as convenient for those individuals that are taking classes on the farmstead or attending events there as possible because they will be subject to rain, snow, freezing temperatures.

That's just the reality of uh the weather in our area.

So we wanted to make it as convenient as possible.

Thank you for that.

And then the last clarification question, so that my colleagues have the same information that I do.

Last term um when we were looking at the horse barn, there was a budget of 5.8 million initially shared with us, and then a four million dollar budget shared with us, and it was included in the FY 2024 uh uh budget brief book, the budget book, for example.

So I was just curious how the numbers could go down in a time of escalating cost and inflation.

Uh it just seemed like it's and that may impact impact how we think about phasing.

So I just I wanted to make sure all my colleagues have the same information as we talk that through.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, from my understanding, um, there was a change from numbers that were included in the FY24 projected budget, which was about 5.8 million as you um mentioned, um, and there was uh removal of uh projected fit-out costs because there had not been an identified use um uh confirmed yet.

So those costs were about 1.8 million that was removed from the project and what was actually approved in FY24 was a little over four million, it was like 4.07.

Um so that included um the rebuild of the barn.

Um it included mechanical, electrical, plumbing estimates at the time, um, as well as built-in escalation since the um assessment was done in 2014.

So that's how that number um it also included uh design, construction contingencies, so that's how that number um got to the four million.

Um so that's the difference between the 5.8 from project from proposed budget to 4 million at adopted.

That makes a lot of sense, but what was included in our budget in our brief book for tonight is that we could get all this done for two million for the horse barn, right?

So that is just construction cost.

It does not include, so there was a um a page uh within the presentation that highlighted the exclusions, um, and that included uh design, um design contingency, construction contingency.

Um so that number uh that you're seeing there, the two million is just to can for construction.

So we'll have to include escalation costs, um, uh estimated at about five percent per year, as well as include the um design and construction contingencies on top of that.

So with two million dollars, you're estimating that it can be a functional and usable facility, but we uh excluded all these other costs, so it might actually be four.

We don't yes, it's probably yes.

Once we add in all of those additional numbers, um uh it will uh be closer to the four.

Um, and we have requested um going into preparing the final um master plan that uh those figures be adjusted to include the five percent escalation cost as well as the design and construction contingency, so those numbers are a little bit more truer to what you can expect to spend.

Okay, thank you.

I I appreciate that.

I will just note that dairy barn has had the most work.

Yes, um, and it's been shored up.

Uh so there's likely we don't know what we're getting into on the others, so I just wanted to note that for my colleagues.

Yes, Councilmember Fulton.

Okay, thanks.

Um again, one of the mayor touched on one of my questions, but I want to make sure I fully understand.

Question number one about the parking.

Um what is our level of optionality on parking?

Like so, I heard it is it it is it coming from the zone zoning ordinance where it's required on site parking, or could we decide that that is in a neighborhood, there's a lot of transit nearby, Madison Air Park is nearby.

Um we think we could get by with less parking.

I want to make I want to understand the optionality there.

So I may take a swing at that one if that's okay.

Um it's actually a combination of the two.

Um, it doesn't matter if it's a public building or private building.

We're supposed to provide X amount of um parking available exclusively to the use of the building, right?

Um, you can get credits for shared parking spaces.

You can also get credits for having parking that's remote by using what some folks have have um suggests, and that's shuttling and things of that nature, but we still have to have a certain amount of exclusive parking for each of these uh buildings that were renovating and intensifying the use.

So I'm gonna ask one, I get that, and I'm not saying we wouldn't have any, but I'm just like those requirements derive from the zoning which we decide, right?

Correct.

So we do have some optionality there if we really wanted to exercise it.

Some limited, yes.

Okay, yep.

Um, second question, just so I can clarifying to help answer uh these questions.

In both of the options, we have the dairy barns in phase three.

Help me understand why that is so I can evaluate the options.

So I'll start with um uh the first option.

Let me go back so I can show that to you.

Okay.

So um the way we phase this, we tried to prioritize um uh items that are rather critical.

So like the horse barn um had some shoring up done in 2019, but it's still not a structurally sound building, and we have some concerns about um how long we let that building remain in that condition.

So that's why we prioritize that building.

Um we also know that child care is a priority for the mayor and council.

Um, and we felt like um starting with those two buildings gave multiple options for the community.

It provides child care for families, it also activates the horse barn with um to be able to serve all ages with wellness programming with summer camps, with events, um, classes as well.

Um, so we prioritize those buildings first.

Um the uh the garage and the tenant houses really could go in any direction, but we needed to kind of spread the costs out as well.

Um the dairy barns are the most expensive, and um we really wanted to be thoughtful about that, and um, you know, we're gonna have to work with our finance team on on strategies for funding the project um and you know, uh building some time to be able to generate that funding or build that uh funding plan is why we uh phased it in the way that we do.

It's really helpful.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Councilman Van Grack.

So um first and foremost, I want to echo my colleagues' comments.

What you guys have done with regard to reaching out the community is as efficient, as broad as I think we've seen in the city.

And I know that the entire mayor and council has really focused on a community engagement and the degree to which whether it's online availability with virtual meetings, meetings all over the city, the feedback that you can actually send and give it has been tremendous.

And I've heard from people all over the city the degree to which you have made sure that if someone wants to comment, they've done so.

And what I also appreciate is not just that you had these, you have continually brought before us the results of what the community wanted, which is helped guide our decision.

So fantastic work and fantastic work of getting it together.

And the first issue is exactly kind of hinting at what Councilmember Fulton was talking about.

And that's kind of the horse barn versus the dairy barn.

Because my understanding is, and and I think we just I discussed this and we were talking about it last time we were addressing these issues, is the horse barn needs to be almost completely raised and rebuilt.

Meaning that among the structures that we've got here, it's the most intense of what we have to do it.

And uh in looking at the figures, I was also looking at what the mayor was talking about the last time this was brought before it, to me, like a five to six million dollar endeavor when you are raising and building up seems much more appropriate.

And if we're looking now at, you know, just under two million dollars, just as you said, seems vastly low.

And I'm concerned about us starting with that effort, because I've even suggested, and I'm not necessarily committed to this, given what we already have to know that we have to do for the dairy barns, and that we've got a parking condition, is it even viable for us to look at the farm, the the horse barn as something that we don't necessarily build, but we've got green space and costs that are significant here, and we're talking about completely raising a building and building it back up, which is extremely cost intensive because my understanding is it's not just building it up, because we're trying to build it up to historic specifications that are required with the historic building.

Um, and uh kind of going to kind of Councilmember Fulton's kind of perspective, I understand that with the minimal cost that we're trying to do here with the early phases versus pushing off the more intense phasing, the dairy barn.

I also think it seems to me that the dairy barn has the most universal use ability with already investments from the city going forward.

And it seems from the phasing, we're not even looking to break ground until potentially 2037 on the most universally used facility here.

Was there a thought of kind of switching this around and looking at the dairy barns, but pushing the horse barn, which again has to be completely raised some of these other aspects getting it done, and especially considering that we're talking about a 5% per year increase if we're holding off on the dairy barns, which is a pretty construction cost intensive, 5% of 10 to 12 million dollars is significant.

Um was there any rationale of flipping it, kind of similar to what customer Fulton was uh thinking about?

So the quick answer is you absolutely could.

You could flip it.

Um as Tara mentioned, I really think we're concerned about the farmhouse and just the matter we want to preserve it so it doesn't fall down.

It's in pretty rough shapes.

We thought that should get done right away.

Having said that, council could move any one of these phases, any of these components and mix and match and do whatever you want.

This was our our best efforts of trying to get some good bang for your buck.

We're really focusing on what's on the bottom of the slide, which are really the actual uses that support the community.

You know, child care daycare, you guys have talked about a lot.

You also heard about um makerspaces at some point, that's uh that's a middle phase, you could push that out.

You could move three to two and two to three if you guys want.

So we're just trying to provide you guys some manageable chunks in terms of building this out, but you guys could move these around wherever you see fit, and we would just have to come up with a way to uh finance this over a number of years.

Okay, so uh just two more questions.

One which is a quick one, which is a little more intense.

Uh, the first quick one is I know there was discussion in almost every presentation you put forward and even on the descriptions with regard to the use of the columns.

And I know that in some of the options, we were going to use those tall um cylinders with some type of use, yet I note that in what we're looking here, there doesn't seem to be use.

And there were some really ingenious ideas that we were putting forward.

Is that part of the plan that we're looking for, or are we excluding that really in the build out of what we're looking here?

So I may ask uh Mike to support me on this one, but um as proposed right now, the concepts do not address a use of the silos, uh, those uh cylinders on either side, um, doesn't mean that we couldn't figure out a use for them in the future, but as of right now, we have not proposed a use for them in the current.

So then it uh because obviously they're kind of next to and connected, are we looking to shore them up?

Because the last thing we need is them following up on it.

What is because I because I think that if we're actually building this, we've also got them, and even if we're not utilizing them with some internal climbing structure or art structure that I know you had proposed, are we is the cost of shoring them up structurally included in what's being proposed?

Uh no, we don't have that included currently, but we can add that a cost to that.

I mean, I'm assuming to preserve the construction that we're doing, we're gonna want to make sure these tall cylinders are not potentially at risk of falling, right?

Yes, uh I agree with you.

Okay, all right.

Um and then finally, I I know it's gonna be a concern you're gonna hear from I'm sure everybody on here with regard to parking.

And the I I know I've heard from community members on kind of diametrically opposed.

A lot of people say we've got green spaces, which I know is utilized by the community all over, but the same vein I've heard from neighbors who are close to the farmstead that are worried about clogging up their ability to parking.

Um I know that you've done a really good effort of trying to see what we're gonna look at for parking, but and it seems like from your answers to my colleagues that you have really looked at the surrounding areas as best you can.

And is your numbers that you've putting here for parking a full kind of understanding of both the impact that it would do, but also trying to see if there's any other options?

Yeah, so we looked at parking very um intently.

Um kind of um flagged to us that hey, parking's an issue here, and it has been over the years.

So we took a really hard look at it.

That's why, as you look at the plan here, we're recommending to phase the parking in over time, the existing parking that was built recently, then going forward with a limited asphalt parking lot, and then going with grass paving.

And in addition to that, using shuttles, using Manny's topanic, the idea of using Shady Grove.

I mean, potentially we could have a partnership with Walmata on that.

I think at build out, if you look at again the bottom of the of the slide, if we have all those uses built out over time, we are going to need parking, both on-site, immediately adjacent, and through shuttles, and sometimes using um shuttles off-site to make sure we can use it all.

But parking is is needed if we're going to intensify the use in a meaningful way.

Okay.

I I have a few other questions, but I know my colleagues are jumping at the bit.

So thank you.

Uh Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, uh Mayor.

Uh actually uh my colleagues uh Van Greg and uh yourself, uh Mayor and uh Councilmember Fulton have as many that I wanted to ask.

But uh first I just want to back up and say thank you for all the the work.

Um both the the report, which I know is a lot of work and a lot of numbers and so much information.

I mean, it's uh uh we're drawing in information, and that's a good thing uh because we need all that information we need to we can get to make uh a good decision on the farmstead.

And so I'm gonna bounce around a little bit and probably not ask every question that I have uh because uh as uh council member by Grac, I want to leave uh uh questions for my colleagues.

But let me just back up for a second, because this is not a process that started um last year or even this year.

Um this was a process 30 years in the making.

I mean, we had study, we had task force, we had consultants reports, we had many, many um uh prior council uh debates.

And uh unfortunately, or you know, um uh it just never went anywhere.

I think they um they had good intentions, but what always seemed to trip people up was aspirational goals, uh unrealistic goals, uh and then the cost and uh uh for the the build out and uh the parking uh tripped them up and the the reports set on the shelf.

And I I really don't want to see that happen this time.

Uh I really just speaking for myself, I mean 30 years is enough.

Um, you know, it's time to get this done.

And we need to be careful, and what I've heard so far um it is realistic, but it's kind of creeping a little bit into aspirational.

And so we just need to be careful about that because you know, aspirational kills uh on something like the the farmstead.

And what we need to do is get something done uh cost effectively, but also quickly.

And you know, I I know that um there are uh a structure structures that you wanted to focus on.

Um and I know that you say that um some of them need attention before others, but I would just say, you know, we have really good structures and we've put money into the dairy dairy barns.

And I just feel like you know those are the ones that we can move into quickly if we don't let the perfect be the enemy of the g good.

And so I know we haven't even talked about it, but you know, if there's some way that we could stage it so that we actually um uh use one dairy barn before the other, I think that would be uh realistic as well.

Now I I know there might be issues there, but I'm just saying, you know, we need to use imagination to get this done uh sooner rather than than later.

And I'm I'm I'm I'm concerned about the timeline that we have.

I mean, you know, uh 15 years is gonna be 45 years um, you know, for from until we use uh some of these uh these structures, which you know I know it might seem realistic, but it seems to me and to many residents that that is an uh uh just really long time for something that should have been done a long time ago.

It's not your fault, but that is where we are.

Um it was a stipulation, and I know you know this, that the the farmstead be used for parks and recreation.

And I think that's some of the what the concern that you've heard uh tonight and from uh people at community forum and others is they're really concerned about the green space.

And um, you know, I know that parking is a concern, but the real kind of underlying thing is they really want to maintain the green space that they have and uh make it functional, usable, but also maintain the green space because there's let's let's face it, the the green spaces around Rockville are few and far between and and lessening um uh uh somewhat uh each year as we develop more and more.

So you know it if we can conserve some of that green space, I think that's what the concern is uh from um from the the residents.

Um my questions, and now that I've had uh a soapbox, um you don't mention it, but I just I I just want to make uh kind of delve into a little bit because I know that there's concern uh with the residents.

Um do you propose to open up the the farmstead along Grand Champion or or just have entrance and exits on uh uh Maryland 355?

So uh was that the Farmstead Drive?

Do you uh appropos to open it up to uh the the uh grand champion or just leave it alone, leave it blocked off and have uh entrance and exit on Maryland 355?

Uh for the parking lot are you referring to?

Yeah, well pedestrian or I don't even want to uh talk about the parking lot right now, but just to have um uh cars, I guess come in to Maryland 355 uh uh and access Maryland 355, or are you proposing that you're gonna open up the um entrance uh by uh the uh picnic area um to uh cars so they can go in and out and and park at the parking lot or can I ask a question while you plumb the it's not easy to get to the parking lot either from one side to the other, right?

From a car perspective.

So the existing lot, the 47 space lot, you enter from 355.

Yeah, and but I'm talking about uh the the 44 spaces uh but even if we don't let's say we don't build that, but do you propose that people can in enter and exit on Grand Champion or is there only gonna be on Maryland 355?

I think that's good.

So the parking lot is only the existing parking lot which is labeled F on the plan here is only accessible from Frederick Road.

Yeah, no, and and I know that.

But uh C.

If C were were built, then yes, it would want to be accessed uh accessible from Grand Champion from the road on the back.

Yeah and I was I would tell you I think that's another uh concern about res uh for residents uh because there would be uh increased traffic plus the uh you would be building the parking lot so there'd be kind of a double whammy um uh uh there now the the the terrace um which I think looks fantastic but you only propose it under um uh one option rather than under both options so why is that it could be it could be included in in in the other options separately you just take that um that number and add it to the other option so when you have the the terrace did you also take into account um I I know we're we we don't want uh parking on uh grand champion that's uh uh a given but um if you have the terrace and you have the the ramp um what about parking down on Red Spont I yeah I believe there there could be parking on on Ridgemont yes so uh I will I I would not ask uh too many more questions because I wouldn't be uh cognizant of uh other people needing to speak but um I just I would say just say this I mean I like the the plan and there's gonna be a lot of questions and a lot of um uh changes um to the plans as we go through through this but I just would challenge challenge one thing and uh it's it's a parking because I think that you guys have used a lot of imagination to come up with a plan for using the farmstead space for uh uh what do you use it for and then how you're gonna phase it and then uh the the cost and we haven't even got to how we pay for it which is another discussion entirely but I would just say that when we're talking about parking or uh walking pedestrian uses uh bicycling transit that we need to take the same imagination that we've shown in uh putting together the plan and put it towards uh the the the parking situation or just how people can access uh the site and you know I I know Jeff mentioned uh uh using W Mana using shuttles um you know uh whatever we have to do and I would just challenge you guys to come back with uh a really a robust uh plan to move people in and out that just doesn't just rely on parking because we have a lot of the city that uh wants us to do more with climate change with uh you know uh for preserving green space and um I think that while it's easy to say hey we're gonna have parking I think we need to challenge ourselves and figure out an other ways to get people to and from uh what we wanted to do without building parking spaces thank you thank you councilmember yes hi thank you thank you all for um this this is a fantastic uh overview um and I appreciate all the work that went into this um I first want to start off with um to echo um uh council member Van Grack um the intentionality um to reach out to um the neighborhoods also farthest from King Farm was absolutely noted by communities and neighborhoods in the southern part of the city um I think perhaps in other times it would not have um been seen as vital um but what it made uh everybody feel uh from what I've heard and feedback from from residents from east to west um in the southern part of the city is that they all feel very invested in what happens there now and I don't know necessarily if if the intentionality had had not been there if if they would say I want to give a uh shout out and a kudos to you on that um I attended the one at uh in twinbrick and yeah I just it felt different than other things so I want to say thank you.

Um I agree uh with council member Jackson on his uh point uh very well made on the length of time of this project um again with all things being equal and I know that there are a lot of um uh big weighty conversations ahead of us things like funding um but um I I think that um I I think realistically given some of our large phased in projects that are occurring in other parts of the cities that I could absolutely see it the that time period being shrunk down um but I again I understand you know as we're we're kind of thinking through things um I will also um like ditto triple ditto I don't even know at this point um the concerns about um around the proposed approach to parking um probably so surprising no one um I I don't you know I don't see um the approach here is such a modern engaging and inviting um design but then we fall back on very

Probably so surprising no one.

I I don't, you know, I don't see um the approach here is such a modern, engaging and inviting um design, but then we fall back on very mid-century parking standards.

And I think if that if the zoning to Councilmember Fulton's point, um, if the zoning is is the issue, well, it's not because we've actually done parking waivers.

So is that a possibility?

Perhaps.

Um I'm curious, you know, I'm always curious about how the formulas are created to say yes, this many spots are needed to support an event of this many people.

Given that I think um, and I I'm sure our transportation um and traffic and transportation engineers have heard me say this many times.

Uh people's mode of transportation is really shifted in a way that the transportation rules have not.

So, and especially like I've done a lot of um, I've done a lot of walking around King Farm because I am a professional pedestrian.

And there are a lot of people, you know, from all corners of of King Farm who are walking around King Farm.

You have a ton of people biking around, and I don't know if they all live in King Farm.

I'm just noting how many people like you know.

Um, but I have utilized public transit from the far south of the city to get to King Farm, and it's quite I mean, especially now that some of the buses are free, it's it very affordable and actually pretty fast as well.

So um I I I echo uh council member Jackson.

I I would definitely chat put the challenge back that um we look at as a modern approach around parking as we are to the actual physical buildings, and we we want to be supportive and find creative solutions.

Um I don't think that adding uh surface parking lots is that sort of modern thinking that we want to get to.

Um so that that's enough on that.

Um I also and I I would be remiss um uh as somebody who has taken the opportunity to wander around the community garden when nobody's there.

Um I I am just it is a phenomenal space.

And I think it's it's actually a missed opportunity to to some sort of placemaking on the site, um, if that was not highlighted in some way that is not going to be detrimental to the existing plantings.

So working with you know the community uh garden folks, like what are their current challenges?

What is something that that could be done to really elevate it as an actual um component of this larger farmstead, right?

Like it's a nice kind of throwback to the use of the farm as it was.

And so there's I think that there's some creativity that we can um do there.

I also absolutely agree on um uh what's the nice way to put it on the dairy uh barn option um and and really kind of moving that up, recognizing that we also want to do a phase-in approach and and really allow for folks to see progress being made.

Um but I I see you know, in looking between the horse barn and the dairy barn, um, that the the possibilities there are um significant.

And I would I I do have a question tucked in here, um, I swear.

And that would be um when we were looking at the um uh exclusions list on the costs um for the horse barn, does the exclusions include things like the costs associated with demolition and any sort of environmental mitigation?

Okay.

So I would be curious about that for sure.

Um seeing as, you know, in in the 2014 property could condition assessment, it was recommended demolish and reconstruct.

So if that is still the intent, um demolition being the first part of that, um, and if we're all concerned about the the safety of the of that, then I would see that as being the the first step there and seeing the cost around that would be helpful.

But at any rate, I really do I agree um with my colleagues who have spoken so far um on many of their points, but I really did want to speak to the parking and to the elevation of the community garden there.

So thank you.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Go ahead.

I was just gonna answer.

Yeah, demolition is included in the in the cost.

It is, yes.

Okay, so demolition is included, but maybe not environmental mitigation or yeah, that was a good good question.

Um I would think that uh in the demolition cost, there would be uh treatment that would keep the dust down, so keep the lead contained.

I would think that would definitely be there's probably lead paint on the building.

But if there's any further contamination, say like oil in the ground, that would not be included.

That would have that would be in the exclusion.

An additional cost.

Thank you.

And I apologize.

I I'm like so quick to turn my mic off.

Um I would also hope then too that um as this process goes forward that any sort of unintended consequence of that sort of mitigation would not also impact the community garden because there is actual food that's grown there and cool.

I just want to throw that shot up.

Thanks.

Thank you very much.

I see Councilmember Fultz, and then I'm gonna go back to anyone who hasn't spoken, and then I'll wait.

So I see Councilmember Shaw and then uh Dr.

Miles.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

And I know we need to get to your feedback, but I do feel like I I would need to clarify or balance out maybe the views on parking.

Um I wanted to know what the optionality is, uh, and I wanted to know the methodology.

Um I also think I'm not saying that parking isn't needed there.

Um when I think about Glenview Mansion and F.

Scott Fitzgerald to make those usable to make them accessible to the public.

We need parking.

Um and to Councilmember Valeri's point, um, we did outreach to all of Rockville and all of Rockville needs to be able to get there and access it.

Um so I I just want to balance out like in order for this to be useful to all of the city of Rockville, I understand that we're not at a point yet where we don't need any parking.

I just wanted to be thoughtful about it.

I understand that local like people closest to developments of any kind are always gonna be concerned about traffic and parking.

Um development requires parking and uh increase in traffic.

It's just gonna happen.

So I just wanted to balance out a little bit.

I wanted to make sure we were thoughtful about it, but I I do think that uh we need to be thinking about this public facility being useful to all of Rockville, which will require some amount of parking for it to be sustainable.

Thanks.

Thank you.

I have Councilmember Shaw, then Miles.

I have a quick comment, then we're gonna go back to Councilmember Jackson and add uh council member Van Group.

Sorry, thank you.

I just wanted to uh echo my colleagues and thank you on the excellent work, community engagement all over the city.

Um and it's also essentially a model for future projects in the way that you were very innovative in reaching a lot of different people across the city.

So thank you for that.

Um I um also do want to support uh what my colleagues were saying around the different phases.

I know that the community kitchen, which um is in the dairy barn, uh, was something that was um a pretty popular idea throughout the community, and I think uh there are a lot of different creative ways that we could use the community kitchen and the community gardens and help to address some of the issues around uh food insecurity.

Um so I think there's a lot of different ideas around that.

And um I would also like to explore looking at um putting the dairy barn in an earlier phase, uh, one or two.

Um, but I would like to just get some more information around that.

Um, and then regarding the addition, um so we we have the cost uh the construction costs, we have the exclusion list costs.

Um, but could you share more details around the op if we were to build the addition?

Could you share more details around some of the operating costs um like in the future and how that would impact the city?

So um the full operating costs are yet to really be determined once we um know all the programs.

Um there are guesstimates uh included in the economic analysis um uh report.

Um, but we will uh use the city's cost recovery model um to determine how the um programs are uh planned operationally and what they're expected to recover um revenue-wise.

So um the dairy barn specifically has opportunities that fit into both tier two and tier three, um which could be anywhere from 20% cost recovery to 70% cost recovery.

It just will depend on the specific program.

Okay.

And my final point, I just wanted to echo what my colleagues were saying, particularly Councilmember Jackson, and continuing to find creative ways around parking.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I appreciate both the work of staff.

Input of community.

And the comments of my colleagues.

I don't have much to add.

I think much has been said.

If I had to answer the questions in order, I would say I do number one.

I mean, with the addition.

Number two, I do support phasing over the next five, 15 years and three support option one.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I wanted to just quickly share some feedback.

I was kind of alluding to some of it, and you really the comments of my colleagues are very helpful.

I do think that the horse barn is going to cost more.

I mean, I've just seen it before.

The budgets are what they are, and things have only gone up in price.

I am concerned about the dairy barn because if you leave that building vacant, the more than two million dollars that have already been invested in it are at risk.

And so thinking about phase three, I would just want to make sure that we're preserving our investments.

So with that said, given the higher cost as well as the fact that we we have made significant investments in terms of shorting those buildings up, I would like to get them into use faster.

So I do support a version of the phasing.

So my my question, my comment is yes, I support two and phasing out of five to 15 years.

I also love the support for the tenant house.

So those are the two that I think are very important.

I do want to make sure that we find ways to preserve the look and architecture and capturing the horse barn so that we when we're ready for that, we can get it done and finding ways, you know.

But I I in terms of the phasing, I think we've got to finish the work that we started on Dairy Barn.

So I just wanted to be clear about that.

Um I I was walking uh King Farm Farmstead again this morning uh before our LPT leadership planning team call.

Uh, and it was very interesting to me just to kind of look at it from the perspective of looking at all your diagrams.

Um, it is very, very close to you know the neighborhoods and EYA property.

I did have a chance to see that we did require uh EYA to develop that parking um for this project, uh and it also serves as potentially support for overflow when they have events.

Um however, I I don't think to me an earlier phase that the parking is necessarily needed at this point.

I think we can always say if in the future you want the future Marin Council sees that is it's exploding over there, or there's a lot of complaints, but I have concern about you ripping up green space and planning to rip up green space so early in this game.

Uh I do think that Matty's a panic park has a lot of parking.

Um I that's what I usually do.

I normally park over there and then walk over.

Um and I also support some minimal parking uh by the parking by the current pavilion uh because just to have additional ADA parking so that people can get to the garden faster and to some of the structures are working.

So I just that is one thing I was fine with is some minimal additional ADA parking there, but I wouldn't plan to put almost 50 spaces and take up that whole green space just yet.

Um I I think that would be not in alignment with our current climate action goals.

Uh, and I think also it'd be changed the whole thing about stormwater management.

Uh I was walking the property on the EY to today, and I saw that they had to put these huge storm drains in.

So the more asphalt you put in, the more stormwater management you need to consider.

And that also has a cost, uh, also takes up space.

So I just wanted to flag that for now.

Um I do like that, I just wanted to note I mentioned this last time, but I still see it in design, and I just wanted to flag it again.

There's an option with the kitchens kind of in the middle of two spaces.

I think that limits our ability to use a larger community space.

So I do recommend the kitchen go toward the back so you have the larger capacity for community spaces.

You can always even segment out the rooms.

Um, but I put it in the middle, I think really you limit how many people you can serve in a in a big community event.

Um I did want to uh just one I was wondering as part of this process if we've talked into our Wreck and Parks team who currently run the city's daycare.

Uh we have a child care facility.

have the larger uh capacity for um community spaces you can always even segment out the rooms um but i i putting it in the middle i think really you limit how many people you can serve in a in a big community event um and i did want to uh just one i was wondering as part of this process if we've talked into our wreck and parks team who currently run the city's daycare uh we have a child care facility have they given any thoughts to whether the tenant house works well and I just I just want to think about the the actual use and people who are expert in that space as well um so we have engaged our um child care team um in discussions uh regarding the farmhouse and um asked for their recommendations on the type of uh modifications or requirements that would be necessary um to uh effectively run a child care um and they will be engaged throughout the process as we move forward to um uh design that site just to make sure that we're covering all of the um the requirements by law for child care um licensed child care um and that you know we're providing accessible space as well okay that's great thank you because I know that can impact cost as well so I just wanted to check um I meant farmhouse sorry not tent but yeah um and then on the uh the you're talking about some grass turf thing do you mean ripping up the current grass and putting turf down or yeah adding material that goes onto existing grass so it yeah the grass would probably have to to be be torn up but then grass would be put back in its place it's basically um loops of plastic rings that get buried into the turf it basically reinforces the grass so that when it's wet or or um this soft uh the traffic weight gets distributed across these plastic rings um it's only meant for occasional use it's you can't it can't be used every day so in event parking situations on on weekends so it's still real grass it's just that you have to put something to reinforce the grass okay and that's environmentally friendly yeah yeah okay water will still well yeah uh it's just like grass basically with plastic reinforcement and it's not um yeah okay I just want to because there's a lot of discussion around turf yeah yeah I wanted to understand yeah yeah that better okay um and my colleague mentioned silos I do think that we have to put reinforcement in into this plan uh when it comes back to us because otherwise you know just we just have to plan for it.

They can't just it looks like one of the pictures they were taken away was kind of like just the shell of it and the bottom of it but I couldn't tell if that was intentional or not.

So I think that was probably it was cut off because I was showing the first floor.

I understand it was just okay.

Okay.

All right.

No no no intent to remove them at all.

Okay.

So I think I've answered your questions uh which is uh well uh I I am okay with the addition um I'm also okay with the addition being phased but I leave that to you um and I already commented on the five to fifteen years and I would put the dairy barns early up and I think that's it for now thank you.

All right so let me move back to councilmember Jackson and then Councilmember Van Grack.

Thank you Mayor so uh first I don't want anybody to misunderstand me.

I love the the Farmstead uh project and I love the work that you uh guys have done both the engagement and the report um you know uh I think it's gonna be a fantastic project uh when it's gets off the ground and uh uh thank the mayor for her comments on um you know going to the farmstead and looking around I went to the farmstead um today uh in advance of this meeting and was just look walking around and looking around and yeah it's it's really close to uh the EY development which is which is fine but there would be um uh some runoff uh consideration um with whatever we we uh end up uh doing but my point and uh I think uh councilman uh council member uh Fulton for for saying this is of course we need uh parking um you know but I think what I was saying earlier about imagination about uh looking uh with a different lens I actually was walking around and um I walked around the dairy barns I walked around the the uh the farmhouse and was looking around the the grassry area um near 355 and and Richmond and I don't know I'm no no planner no uh designer no public works uh uh guy but it seems to me that there are places that could be used for parking spaces um uh near the dairy barn near um uh the uh the the driveway the farmstead driveway um right in front of the um of the uh farmhouse but you just have to use a little imagination at least that was my my view so that would that's I guess what I'm uh saying to you guys is you know come back with kind of uh a different view of where you could put parking spaces and uh you know uh uh I think we should just use every um aspect and not just be locked into um the the the typical uh rectangular uh parking lot that we're used to uh we should look for nooks and crack

So that would that's I guess what I'm uh saying to you guys is you know, come back with kind of uh a different view of where you could put parking spaces and uh you know uh uh I think we should just use every um aspect and not just be locked into um the the typical uh rectangular uh parking lot that we're used to.

Uh we should look for nooks and crannies and uh wherever to make uh uh make parking available, but still maintain and maximize our green space.

Thank you, Councilmember Van Grank.

Thank you.

So first uh I have just a clarification because we talked we're talking about option two versus option four.

But when you were presenting option two and option four to us previously, there was a lot of different costs in addition to the addition.

But in when we have option two and option four here with the costs, the baseline costs is the same, and the really only difference is the addition versus the bridge.

Have we merged kind of the build out of options two and four into the baseline costs, or are we looking at the baseline costs of two or the baseline cost of four?

Where are we in understanding where we're looking without the consideration of the addition?

Yeah, so we only had one option that we could take into this phase.

So we took option four, but to give you an idea of the cost for option uh two, we removed the addition.

We didn't actually draw up an option two uh at this level of detail that we did the option four, but to approximate a cost for option two, we remove the cost of the addition.

Well, because and the reason why I asked that, because uh I know that when we were talking before, we were talking about potentially the option two, which was the middle ground, but adding the addition to that.

So the core build out would be less, but a lot of my colleagues and myself really like the idea of the addition.

Is it is the so are we saying that the existing, which is the the bulk of the cost, the largest cost here is that that build out, which you're talking about um 6.9 million dollars, right?

That's the biggest cost here.

And so are you saying that you used the option four for that number, meaning the most elaborate build-out for that 6.9 million?

And could there be a reduction if we went to the more middle ground option two?

No, this the 6.9 will be true of option two or option four.

Okay, so if we so basically that 6.9 is and I'm when I'm saying option two or four, I'm saying the previous look of two or four.

Yeah.

All right.

So really we didn't we didn't do a full cost estimate at the level that we did of option four, but there are base costs for both those options that would would be similar, yes.

Okay, so so basically what you're saying is the we're really looking at the same numbers, whether we were looking at the previous two or four, and really the only big differences in costs is the addition versus the bridge.

Yes.

Okay, all right.

That that that significantly helps.

Yeah.

Um, I also want to circle back because obviously it's a big consideration with regard to parking.

And just to show how important this is to the community, not only do we have the president, Mr.

Mr.

Scott here talking about it, but we've got community members here in the audience, and a lot of them have either written to us or talked about parking, just showing how important it is.

Um and I think one of the most important things we can do here is similar to what Councilmember Jackson said, is communicate with the community.

We have to make sure that we're doing right given all these considerations.

That being said, I think we also have to understand this is a significant up undertaking.

We are talking about a facility here that almost dwarfs almost any other city facility next to potentially the senior center.

And I know that everyone in the community, I mean, we're building an extra entrance into the senior center specifically because we want to make sure that everyone in our community has access to that.

I also think while there are definitely some creative options we can potentially do with regard to parking and usage, there is no way that the and and kind of similar to Councilmember Jackson, like I've walked around that area.

There is no way we can have the facility and the use that we're talking about without more parking.

I just I just I think that if we don't do any additional parking, those neighborhood communities that live on that around are going to be coming to us being like, I can't ever park, or I can't ever have people there because we're really talking about, I mean, we're talking about child care, people dropping their kids off, maybe staying in the parking lot to pick up.

We're talking about an amphitheater that potentially could hold a hundred people.

We're talking about maker spaces, kitchens.

We're talking about if we go forward with the um uh the uh the horse barn, a facility that could host, you know, potentially hundreds of people in a in an event, there just isn't the capacity there.

Now, that being said, we clearly have concerns for the community.

So to the extent we can communicate to I know Mr.

Scott's here, we have community members to make sure the green space is critical.

And that community garden, just as council member Jackson said, is critical.

And the green space is loved by the community of King Farm.

So to the extent we can make sure that any parking that we do is, you know, commensurate with what the community wants to see, but the same vein, there's got to be parking because I I can tell you that there's no way that we can actually utilize this to the extent that it's truly gonna help our community and the people without reasonable parking.

Um I think that's critical.

Now, I I mean, I'm presuming that you know we potentially could be looking at other options to make sure that the parking areas that we're building works for the community, right?

Like and do that engagement similar to what we were doing otherwise.

Um I'm assuming that we're not built in to any one particular parking arrangement.

So I I'll just also note um on the parking side, the uh an analysis does not factor the uh Mattisley panic parking at all.

And so if we can look at it holistically, plus the creative parking options, is there a revision on how much parking you think you need uh with thinking about walking, shuttling, you know, metro.

I just wanted to encourage deeper creativity because we do have significant parking at Matdo Panic Park, and we just built an additional 50.

So I just wanted to think about that holistically.

Mr.

Mihailek.

Thank you, Mary.

Yeah, the parking is interesting.

Um we all heard loud and clear the concern about the parking.

Our goal with um showing parking lot D, which will feel more like green space in an appreciable amount of the whole site.

If you look at the size of the square D there, that was really our attempt to try to maximize green space while still providing an opportunity for parking when the um the whole venue is completely full, the best way to describe it.

If we could move C to D and have C be that overflow lot, that would be ideal, I think.

That would make people very pleased.

But the challenges with um parking lot C is that's really where more of the intense uses are.

But I hear loud and clear from folk, it it feels like it's about softening the parking lot, amongst many other things.

But there are ways for us to you, and you can see it on the edge of the parking lot C to the north, closer to the residential uses.

There are some trees there.

Our goal would be to preserve either all of those trees or as many as we can.

Um, there's a potential for doing some additional berming on the edge of that.

We can absolutely make sure that there's low-level lighting within the parking lot, downcasts, there's not a lot of light trespass.

We can also look into options to adding additional trees um in the islands within the parking lot itself.

Again, to make it feel as green as possible and as soft and possible.

And who you have our commitment to to use as much of the shuttle capability, Maddie Sanic Park, et cetera.

But I really don't see, and we've talked about this a fair amount, us not being able to build out this facility again at build-out without having an appreciable amount of parking in area C, but we'll do everything we can to soften that to the maximum extent possible.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Well, and just to get kind of follow up on that, because I know that we've heard um, I've heard loud and clear from people, even in the senior center area and those neighborhoods, because when there's major events there and people are constantly parking in those streets, we hear it.

And so uh what I want to prevent is a situation where we're hearing about it from the folks in King Farm, but also listening to them about where we're placing the park.

I agree.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm just gonna acknowledge that it is almost 10:30.

Uh it's just I had promised this body that I would remind us when that we approach that time.

So Councilmember Larry, thank you.

Um continuing on this topic because I think that well, you can soften, and I appreciate um the city manager kind of discussing that a little bit more.

You can't soften the impact of taking away that green space, nor can you soften the impact that it will have on the community garden.

It absolutely changes the safety of the soil.

You will have so many other issues that as it stands right now, and I think I've I've I've mentioned this to some of my colleagues.

I can I cannot support C for parking, period.

I think that we could look at other solutions.

I would be I would be interested in seeing how D could be used and some creative solutions there.

Although I will say that is also been an amazing field for our flags for Heroes Rotary event.

So that would personally pain me because I don't think we have a similar space, although maybe that's something we can talk about.

But for a variety of reasons, and I I can appreciate the X number of uh spaces are needed per X number of events.

I think there's also ways to incentivize people to to not drive to events.

You can actually provide discounted tickets if you show that you walked here or you biked here or whatever.

So I think there's just some some creativity that we we can look at because I once you do the damage of putting in parking in C you we cannot undo that.

And so I I would I just can't support that as an option, but um I I do think there's some some flexibility and some creativity as far as looking at D and maybe that being I also note too super quickly to Councilmember Van Grack's point.

Actually, parking around child care and daycare facilities is different than it would be for extended um events because it's very time limited.

Like, you know, parents will um or caregivers will drop a child off and then get back in their car.

Whereas like for another purpose, the person will be taking up the spot for much longer.

So I think that there's there's again some creativity that can be um, you know, like short-term parking sort of solutions that would be for the exclusive use of the child care um at the farmstead.

But you know, um again, there's a lot of different options, but I did want to at least let my colleagues know that um I can't support C parking for parking at all.

Thank you.

I also have concerns about parking near the garden in particular.

I mentioned I was okay with you know the parking by the pavilion and maybe even to the left of the pavilion.

But um, I also think that green space would be great space for farmers market or something along those.

But the runoff is a concern.

I also mentioned stormwater management.

So I I do see the need for people to get there and to not disturb the neighborhood, but I think we can be creative with what we the assets we have on that property.

I really appreciate the city manager mentioning the bourbon.

Uh, we do want to make sure that we're, you know, bourbing and also trees helps to provide soundproofing.

And so to the extent that we can look at that around uh the current King Farm community and the incoming farmstead community, which is very like you can see right through.

Um, that would be, I think, helpful to the neighbors because they want to welcome this of this great facility, but we have to think about the context as well of the community that we're in.

Okay, so I'm gonna just I know it's almost 10:30.

I want to see if there's clarity on, you know, we've given guidance on I've heard a number of people say, but I don't I'm not sure if it's a majority that horseback, the um dairy barn is of interest, but I just kind of get it just a clarification on whether people are wanting to move that up or not.

And then I'm not sure you've gotten everyone to weigh in on addition versus not addition.

So correct.

I just wanted to see if we can get that clarity for a stuff.

Is there anything else?

I think if we could just go through one, two, three, that would be helpful.

And when we get to three, we may want to then talk about the um whether or not to move the dairy barn up there.

Oh so okay, guys.

We're gonna give very clear short responses, and when you get to number three, please clarify whether you're interested in moving dairy barns up or any other project up in the phasing.

Okay.

All right, Councilmember Fulton, we're gonna go down the line.

Dr.

Miles did such a good job.

Um, number one, I uh recommend moving forward with the addition.

I do support phasing with everyone else.

I'd like to be as short as possible.

For three, I would like to move the dairy barns up.

I also think it's important to prioritize the house for the child care.

I think that you guys were smart to do that.

So those two up front.

I'll make it easy.

Councilmember Valerie.

Sorry, I'll make it easy.

Ditto Councilmember Fulton.

Okay.

Councilmember Miles, after you heard the discussion, is there anything that you would like to change or add to your commentary?

No at the moment.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh I'm in the same vote uh as my colleagues.

Okay.

Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, uh Mayor.

Um, on number one, uh, I'm fine with uh either.

I mean uh whatever's faster, honestly.

Um support phasing project information uh uh implementation, yeah, but moving the uh horseman back and the dairy um uh barns uh up.

Uh I I would just say um uh I just want to put in my uh my um own uh opinion uh on the parking as well.

Um I'm against option C.

I want to explore option D or the the parking lot D uh as well as uh being creative and seeing if there can't be other spaces found.

Um but yeah I I really have a problem with uh putting uh parking lot uh in area C.

Uh now on number three.

Um yeah, yeah, I support uh the the no not I don't support the opposed to the phasing as we said.

Um you want to move the dairy barn up?

Yeah, okay.

And also child care or you're uh oh yeah, no, uh uh uh fine with child care.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Shaw.

Um for number one, I support uh the addition.

Number two, yes, I support uh phasing the project.

And number three, um, just like my colleagues have mentioned, I support moving the dairy barn up.

Councilman Van Grack.

Um with the addition, I support the phasing, and I also believe that we should move the dairy barn up.

I'm fine with child care, but I think the horse barn and some of the other tenant facilities need to be pushed back.

Okay, just a quick show of hands.

Uh, or if you haven't clarified, some of us have, but I think do you support the parking at C want to comment on that?

I think Councilman Shaw as well if you have a qu comment on that.

This facility needs parking, it has to have parking.

Um, I'm not necessarily uh the community has some concerns with regard to locations.

We've gotta find I'm totally fine with us looking at universe, but there's gonna have to be a built parking.

So uh I don't specifically have a comment on C versus D at start, but if there is concern from the community about starting with C, um, and then we need to remove that and go to D, I'm fine with that.

But there's got to be parking.

So whatever we've got to do to build more parking to make it reasonable without impacting the community, we should do it.

But there's got to be parking.

Councilman Michelle.

I would I would like to actually have more information and and in terms of some of the ideas that you we are gonna bring back.

Thank you, Councilmember Fulton.

I never thought I'd be the person advocating for parking in a time up here ever.

Um but I the it needs parking to succeed, it needs parking to be available for the entirety of Rockville.

I do want uh to make sure that we've thought about all the available parking around, but we don't say you don't need parking at Fscott Fitzgerald because there's parking at Glenview, or we don't say you don't need parking at the science center because there's parking at Glenview.

Like I want to be thoughtful about it.

I don't think it's particularly telling it's a bit of a cop-out to say like go be creative.

Uh but do what you can, but the facility needs parking.

Thank you.

Councilmember Jackson and I witnessed actually Glenview Mansion being used as overflow parking for the Fscoffice General Theater.

Um, minus the need for the ADA ramp, it worked well.

And it's so overflow, you still need parking in both places.

Right, which we do have.

We have parking uh at uh the farmstead, there's 50 spaces built for that.

There's Maddie Stepanic Park.

I just wanted to note that there are other examples and precedents in the city where we use one facility as overflow parking.

So yes.

We have planning direction.

We'll take a hard look at parking before we bring back the final plan.

Thank you.

And could you just speak to the next time this comes before us?

So we are um currently on this um projected schedule for October 20th for adoption.

Okay, that's great.

And so uh we will have more clarity on the parking recommendations and just an invitation to the community to share your thoughts with us.

All right, thank you very much.

Colleagues, it is 1034.

We have a zoning ordinance rewrite discussion, which is significant.

Uh just want to confirm that uh we are camping in tonight for an hour, or people need a break before we do that or have another thought.

I just wanted to check in with my colleagues.

All right, we're gonna take a quick break.

Hello, Rockville.

Today is September 29, 2025, and we're reconvening meeting dash 23-25.

I want to uh go to my colleagues.

Uh I know that we it is very late, and uh we have an additional agenda item that is very significant for the city.

Councilman Valeri.

Madam Mayor and my colleagues, I'd like to put forward um the idea that we um move this uh item zoning ordinance rewrite work session number five, um, due to the uh lateness of the hour and the depth and breadth of this issue.

Any other comments or feedback, Councilman Fulton?

Do you have any feedback?

No.

Okay.

Anyone else have comments?

Councilman.

I was gonna say, I mean, uh if if there are uh it is approaching 11 o'clock, and I also want to make sure that we give this next item as much attention that it deserves.

So to the extent uh um there's a feeling from almost any of my colleagues that they need a break.

Um I'd be willing to go through that said, you know, I know staff is here, so I'm fine either way, but if if there's a concern, um I want to make sure that we give it the most attention that it deserves.

And appro if we're approaching midnight, because it takes more than an hour and you know, 10 minutes, which this might um this is important enough that we need to make sure it gets to the attention to service.

I'm gonna just ask uh Mr.

Mahalik, I know you can't give us dates now, but is there anything that's shiftable?

Because there are significant discussions, like very important ones that are precedent setting for the city in this.

So just want to make sure we do want to make sure we have our full capacity, and I know that when people are tired, it may not be full capacity.

So I'll just talk to my colleagues.

Um, in order to keep us um moving forward to get an adoption in the spring, which seems like a long way away, but it'll be here before you know it.

Um, we'd like to have this work session at some point over the next three weeks.

It just puts pressure on us to move things around.

So I'll get with everybody and come up with a proposal uh Monday morning um for moving things around.

Thank you very much.

I support that.

Any other comments from my colleagues?

Okay.

So there's I think there's three people have spoken.

I just want to make sure we have one more.

Uh no, if we're if we're looking to like straw poll, yeah.

I I would be in favor of moving if we can it only if we can feel confident we can get it on the agenda in three weeks.

Sounds like you're okay.

All right.

All right, I'm seeing thumbs up.

With that said, uh move to, I'll just want to say thank you to staff.

Um I know this is a very meaty discussion that you have prepared very heavily for.

We want you to drive safely home or bike or whatever you do, uh, but we respect your time.

And uh I think if we do have this at another time, I would respectfully request that we put this early in the agenda for our team who had to wait.

Okay.

All right.

Um now we'll move to mock agenda.

I think that we'll have to see what Mr.

Mahale comes up with uh to see if he needs to shift anything.

Uh and we had a nice discussion on this during leadership planning meeting.

I'm not seeing any hands on this one.

So now we'll move to old new business.

Uh I'm not seeing hands here.

I just want to note that we spoke very briefly on leadership planning meeting about uh the looming potential shutdown uh and also that we are recognizing that there are people who may be uh coming off of admin leave, and so wanted to make sure that you know that the city does have financial assistance programs.

Uh we also have referrals to other support services, and we'll be monitoring our city manager's going to be looking at how things are going and making recommendations to us.

So just want to really uh say that we are with you in the community, we're here to help, and we're going to continue to analyze how we can be even more helpful.

Okay, uh, I'm not seeing anything.

Do we have a motion to adjourn?

Councilmember O'Leary.

I move that we adjourn.

Do we have a second?

Councilman Shaw seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.