Welcome.

Meeting information.

Good evening and welcome to the City of Rockville District Historic District Commission meeting number 08-2025.

Today is Thursday, October 16th, 2025.

I am HDC Chair, Anita Neal Powell.

I am joined by my fellow commissioners, Seth Dimbo, Peter Falseman, Michael Goldfinger, Commissioner Mercy Singate.

Well, that was last month.

Okay.

And Commissioner Mercy Singate.

We're also joined by city staff, Sheila Fazieri, Preservation Planner who is online, Cynthia Walters, Deputy City Attorney, and Katie Gerbis, Comprehensive Planning Manager.

The historic district commissions are conducting hybrid meetings.

Applicants and the public may join the meeting virtually via WebEx or in person in the Mayor and Council Chambers at Rockville City Hall at 111 Maryland Avenue.

The public is invited to participate in person or virtually via WebEx.

The virtual meetings can be viewed on Rockville 11, Channel 11 on County Cable, and live streaming at WWW.

Rockville MD.gov slash Rockville 11.

Each meeting is also available for viewing soon after the meeting is held at WWW.

Rockville MD.gov slash video on demand.

The first item on the agenda is committee organization report.

Peerless Rockville, is there anyone here from Peerless Rockville.

Hello all.

Thank you for having me here this evening.

And one of the first things is we have had some grants to do research and some context study on the Asian American Pacific Islander community here in Rockville.

Specifically, the Chinese and the Taiwanese population will be our first kind of area we'd like to look into.

We've had these grants for a while and it's kind of been on hold.

And you may or may not be aware that this population amounts to about 23% of Rockville's entire population and as much as one fourth of the town center population.

Yet we have very little kind of contextual information or history from this group of people, or really even the immigration patterns and development.

So we did put out a call for researchers to assist us with this process.

So we hope that that will move forward and we can begin more work on this exciting project.

In addition to that, and an event we have uh hosted this past month was a talk by a local historian, Susan Soderbergh.

She has a new book out called My Name is Not Tom.

Um and it's a biography on Josiah Henson.

Um the talk was very well attended, um, and people had a lot of good follow-up questions.

It was very interesting presentation, and I learned some new things that I did not know before.

Um, so I would recommend um following up on that.

In addition, our collections have accepted several donations, including several paintings by a local artist and a collection of photographs from a former residence dating to his childhood in Rockville in the 1960s and 70s, to include lots of images, um, but I believe there's some from various Memorial Day parades over the year, which you would think we would have tons of those, and we really do not.

So uh just a reminder that we do um do collections for Rockville history.

Uh lastly, we've been spending a good bit of time reviewing um and following the master plan process for the King Farm property as well as the zoning ordinance review, particularly as it pertains to the historic preservation ordinance for your rent.

So that's what I have for tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay, the next organization report on the agenda is the Lincoln Park Historical Foundation.

Had an opportunity to attend the Maryland Nonprofits Annual Conference.

I attended a session on bridging the gap, Capital Stat, Maryland Historical Trust Tax Credit and Resources.

It's a really good section, and I'm glad I was able to attend.

And I like the opportunity to learn more about how they would deal with nonprofit organizations.

This time is set aside for members of the public who want to comment on any non-agenda item.

Is anyone from the public waiting to comment on any non item on the agenda?

Hello.

Please state your name for the record.

Yes.

Mark Bersheila 816 Fordham Street.

First of all, on the combined properties effort to demolish a single building and whatever my personal opinion is, please allow it.

17 years ago when I was president of the College Garden Civic Association, I worked with neighbors and with combined properties.

We actually had Mayor and Council at that time upzone that property to mixed use a quarter district in order to incent combined property to redevelop the property because at that time the neighbors were overwhelmingly in support of that property being redeveloped.

So anything that moves that along, I'm in favor of that.

That's my personal opinion.

And I was here a few meetings ago this past Monday, late, uh the draft proposed master plan was released.

But the vast majority is the King Farm Farmstead, so-called master plan proposal.

But despite all that information they provide, it's very hard to understand what this proposal, the King Farm Farmstead master plan proposal actually means for the community.

Not only the features that are desired, but also now the historic context, which I think is under vastly understated in that document, uh, but also the impact on the neighborhood and the impact on budget.

So this is the first time anybody's had a chance to see this all in one place, even though it could be done better.

Um so why am I bringing this up to the Historic District Commission?

Uh you know, I I think you know, if you're agreeable, Historic District Commission in your new business uh part should consider um a simple statement to mayor and council that more time is needed.

That uh really a historic district commission should be consulted before adoption.

Planning commission should also be consulted before adoption.

And you know, it has been possible yet because you haven't seen everything, nobody's seen everything in one place until now.

So that's just something you know, I'd like to bring forward as a possibility.

I'll be speaking at Mayor and Council on Monday, but um, to adopt something so massive just you know, literally a week after it's dropped for public review, and it's is so it's so large.

I mean, it's incredible.

Uh, thank you.

Okay, you're welcome.

Is there anyone else?

Is Nancy.

Hello again, Nancy Picard, um, executive director of Peerless Rockville, and I also am a resident of Rockville myself.

Um here.

Um, I agree with the speaker before me that there is some thousand, you know, thousands some pages in the agenda devoted to the history and lots of things and comments.

Um, but I think the main piece that is new and that is supposed potentially going to be adopted is this King Farm Farmstead report that came out between 5:30 and 6:30 Monday evening.

And as was mentioned, it's for discussion, but also on the agenda is possible adoption.

But many several people, myself included, and others that I've been told of, had to ask for multiple months to the city to get you all to be reviewed and roped into that process.

The fact that this report now comes out six days before, and you also were not included is very concerning to Peerless Rockwell as a body.

Overall, there's lots of great ideas, and as an organization, we are really excited to see something and some enthusiasm for King Farm.

But there's not been much time.

Also, if you look at the report, several options were given to the mayor and council, and they decided to go for the highest option with the largest intervention, which includes possibly just about all the green space that's there on the property be converted to parking, um, major additions to the buildings.

And the request would be a couple things.

One, they call this a master plan.

Um here's my main question.

If this is going to be adopted as a master plan, how is it going to be utilized?

How will people be involved?

It's not really been made clear if they're going to adopt this and then later say, oh, we already decided.

And if that's going to happen, that's effectively cut the HTC out of the process.

And I think that that's kind of where the concern is.

I don't I don't know that that's going to happen, but um just um it would be great if you all could maybe speak up just to ask for some more time to review.

And I would also suggest that you might want to be included, not just in the final review process as this goes forward, but early and often, so that we can keep historic preservation in the front and center um all along the process.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Is there anyone else?

Okay.

Yeah, we'll close the public hearing portion of this meeting.

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to item D.

HDC and staff comments.

Is there a motion to add King Farm Farmstead on the agenda under old business item 5D?

I'll move, madam chair.

Is there okay?

All in favor of moving farm farmstead to item 5D.

Raise your hand.

Okay.

Motion passes five to zero.

Are the any other comments or from HDC?

Yeah, I have to.

Yes.

Okay.

Commissioner Dimbo.

Thank you.

Madam Chair.

Um I just have a couple of things I want to comment on.

I also wanted to say that.

Seth King Share Mike is on.

Sorry.

Um, yeah, uh, just a couple of things I wanted to talk about.

I'm glad we um have had the reports on the the comments on King Farm and and are going to be talking about that later, so I won't talk about that now.

Um I just wanted to report quickly on a conversation I had with Mayor Ashton.

Um the mayor is making an effort, she told me to to speak to all new appointments and also when you are reappointed for commission.

So just to kind of get some feedback.

And I had a really nice conversation with her a few weeks ago.

Um that was what precipitated my writing the letter to uh Mayor and Council regarding the zoning ordinance rewrite, um, which you've all seen.

Um, but she raised a few other things that I just wanted to mention quickly that she sort of wanted to be on our radar, um, and I thought it would be good to report on those.

Um obviously we're coming up next year to the 250 or this year to the 250th anniversary um celebrations, both of the United States and Rockville, and she's hoping that the HTC would would be involved in shaping the city's celebration of this.

So um, so that's one thing she brought up.

Um she mentioned in relation to that uh time capsule that that was I think there was one done at the last major anniversary, and she was suggesting we might want to do that again, but but also that she would be interested in um other input from the HDC.

Um, and this came up at the discussion of the zoning ordinance rewrite.

And I'm I'm not sure I fully agree with what with what several of the um members of council said regarding regarding the fact that we're preserving buildings but not history.

In fact, I don't agree with that, but that you know, that and this seems to be a theme that you know they want more um, you know, they want work done with with signage and plaques, um, walking tours, all of that.

Um, Mayor Ashton brought up at the meeting last, not this week, but last week when they were talking about the zoning ordinance, the Twin Book pool marker that Twinbrook is the pool itself is trying to raise money to get a historic marker, and maybe we could be doing that as part of our work to save them the effort to raise money since there is some money in the budget for this, maybe.

Anyway, it was something she brought up, and I thought it would be um useful to mention.

So that's all I had uh from our conversation.

Um we did talk about the um commissioner's perspective on the changes to the zoning ordinance, which is which is already um the discussion they had on that was already has already happened.

Um the other thing I wanted to mention was I recently did a attended a um a session organized by the National Trust for Historic Preservation on contacts, historic contacts for um for historic preservation.

And it was a really interesting.

They had some presenters who had been part of the process of writing contacts in a few other few cities around the country and talked about how they went about it and stuff.

And I I think this may have been in our original training packets that I read three years ago, but maybe not.

I can't remember.

It was a while ago.

I could go back and look at the documents I was sent.

I I and I probably should do that.

But I'm curious about what contacts have been done for the city of Rockville, when they were last done, where they are, who has them, and whether whether there are more we need to be doing or updating.

And and I mean, I was thinking, you know, one of the things that we talked about in the previous meeting, maybe in September, if not the month before, was you know what things do we want to ask Mayor and Council for money for.

So maybe that's something we want to be thinking about as a commission as a priority.

What what contexts, how they would be used in our work, and then what you know what's needed and how we go about it.

So that's all for me for tonight.

I'll shut up and talk up later when things when we talk about King Fong.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Madam Chair.

Any other comments from any of the commissioners?

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Cole, can you go?

All right.

Uh as I've been doing for the past uh three or four meetings, uh featuring a historic uh building within the city.

Um just a little little uh blurb on the history of it.

Um and for tonight's meeting, uh I did a little research on the Chestnut Lodge Sanitarium, which if you don't know uh at the time was a nationally and internationally recognized psychiatric hospital located right here in Rockville.

Um a lot of history goes behind it.

It burned down, as I will uh say later on, and so we've lost a very significant element in our history, but I'd like to um keep it in the forefront of memory, and perhaps this is something that the city might want to take on to bring more um visibility of this important uh institution uh to highlight what what once was part of Rockville.

Um so before it became the psychiatric sanitarium of national international recognition, the site was occupied by the Woodlawn Hotel, opened in 1889 by Mary Collie, who owned the Clarendon Hotel in Washington.

The arrival of the railroad brought city dwellers and tourists to Rockville seeking a weekend or summer refuge.

It was designed in the Second Empire style and was listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

The Woodlawn was Rockville's largest and grandest summer resort hotel with 40 guest rooms and boasted electric uh bells and gas lighting, and surrounded by walkways set among tree-filled lawns.

Uh the hotel closed in 1906.

In 1908, the hotel was purchased at auction by Dr.

Ernest L.

Bullard, a surgeon and professor of psychiatry and neurology from Milwaukee.

And in 1910, the building became Chestnut Lodge Sanitarium for the care of nervous and mental diseases.

Three decades later, it had become a nationally renowned institution, known worldwide as one of the preeminent private mental health facilities.

The sanitarium closed in 2001.

In addition to the hotel, the eight-acre site also consisted of the stable and ice house built between 1887 and 1889.

Uh what was known as the Little Lodge, built in 1929, and Frieda's College cottage, all of which exist today, plus the upper cottage built in 1942 and demolished in 2007.

The Little Lodge was the home of Dexter and Ann Bullard, second generation owners and directors of Chestnut Lodge.

The Little Lodge retains its original tutor revival style with a rear kitchen edition and second story French doors added.

Frieda's College Cottage was the home and office of Frieda from Reichmann, an internationally renowned psychiatrist.

Also a colleague, I believe, of Sigmund Freud.

The upper cottage was originally a dormitory for student nurses.

The original stable was converted to a dairy barn where Ann Bullard kept seven dairy cows to provide milk for the sanitarium and was reconstructed in 2010 to its 1959 appearance.

The ice house served the Woodlawn Hotel until commercial ice sales made it obsolete.

A vestibule was added in 1920.

The building served as a music room for the sanitarium and was reconstructed in 2010 using some original materials.

Chestnut Lodge Sanitarium has a colorful and often chilling history with a reputation of conducting cutting edge controversial and bizarre treatments.

Edgy pharma pharmacological studies were reportedly conducted there.

The National Institute of Mental Health was started by doctors who trained at Chestnut Lodge, and other doctors went on to run some of the country's most prestigious psychiatric hospitals.

The hospital was a site of a series of influential studies on the long-term treatment outcome for psychiatric conditions known as the Chestnut Lodge Studies.

Very expensive cost of treatment, typically limited patients to wealthy individuals.

Among the hospital's patients were Judy Garland, Zelda Fitzgerald, Ann Seaton, who was a 20th century American poet, James Forrestall, an investment banker who subsequently became Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of Defense.

Frank Olson, an American biological warfare scientist whose suicide remains a mystery, and Philip Graham, publisher and co-owner of the Washington Post.

On June 7th, 2007, a tragic fire under mysterious circumstances destroyed the main building beyond repair, and what remained was demolished.

The date of the site is located in Rockville's West Montgomery Historic District.

That's a little bit on Chestnut Lodge.

Thank you very much for that detailed report on Chestnut Lodge.

I guess I have a question.

And a question is do we have a plaque on the site?

Is there yes?

I believe we do.

Go ahead, Sheila.

Yes, we do have one.

We put it there.

I believe it was in 2022.

We put in a new um sign there.

And I think it covered the building and also the existing buildings, the building that burned down, the main lodge, and then it also uh talks about the buildings that are remaining.

And um Nancy Picard would also have information about this, but yes, it has been done.

Actually, um actually there are two um two signs there, which I um uh got a lot of this information from.

One consists one uh talks about the outbuildings on the on the property, and the other one talks primarily about the main building.

Okay, thank you.

I have a question.

Okay.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thanks, this is a very educative piece.

So I have a question.

So when the building was demolished, was anything used, like reused?

Um materials were they were used.

No, it was really destroyed.

It was burned very badly, so it all they could really do was demolish it.

Um search online, which I did.

Uh, there are some photos of the building after the fire was extinguished, and it's um uh it's it's pretty sad.

Um, there was really nothing worth uh that could be salvaged.

Audio, another comment.

Okay.

Well, I would like to thank staff for providing us with information to present the annual report before the mayor and council earlier this month.

The report was detailed and had a lot of information and was forward thinking for fiscal year 2025 to 2026.

In reference to HDC objectives for future projects.

So thank you.

Are there any comments from staff?

Yes, Madam Chair, we have quite a few here this evening.

Um so the first and probably most important for this body and the general public to be aware of is we will be holding an additional historic district commission meeting outside of our regular once a month schedule.

That meeting will be scheduled for Thursday, October the 30th at 7 p.m.

So that's two weeks from today.

This will be a virtual meeting only.

There will not be an in-person component.

Um so if for commissioners and anyone from the public who is interested in joining, that will be only via WebEx.

We will be publishing the brief book and agenda for that on the 23rd, so a week in advance, which is um our practice typically, we get those all out a week before the meeting.

Um staff's intent here is to keep this meeting light.

We have I say light, and then I'm gonna tell you we have three certificate of approvals that we need to take action on prior to that November 20th meeting.

Um so staff are proposing that we limit um the discussion items and really just focus on those three certificate approvals that we have a responsibility to act on within a state mandated time frame, but we will keep our November meeting, and that agenda will look similar to all of our other agendas where there's plenty of time for comment, old business, new business, etc.

So that's our first update that we have for you.

Any questions on that from the commission?

Can I wear my Halloween costume?

Of course, I would love that.

I would love that.

Um, other staff comments for you to be aware of.

Um, we have recently been made aware of several phishing attempts that are impersonating historic district commission staff, historic district commissioners, fake historic district commissioners.

Um, a couple of the names I've seen are not any of your names.

Um, so just a reminder for you all and to the general public that the HDC does not charge any application fees to have a certificate of approval or an evaluation of significance, come before this body.

Um so if you are an applicant and you get an invoice that says you owe us a fee, that is automatically going to be a red flag.

Um, any emails from city staff will come from Rockville MD.gov as the back end of that email address.

Um, some of these other emails have come from attempts at getting similar to that.

Um, Rockville, Maryland at USA.com was one of them that was used.

Um, so make sure you're looking for that.

Um, we will never ask you to wire transfer funds for anything here in Rockville.

So if you think it's a wire transfer, that should be a flag.

Um, and certainly at any point in time, please call city staff if you question whether something is legitimate or not.

Um, luckily, to my knowledge, all of the cases that we have been made aware of, um, nobody has paid anything to anyone.

Um, our IT staff and our police department are looking into maybe how this is happening to see if we can put an end to it.

But just a PSA for everyone, please continue to be diligent.

Um, and you know, if you see something, say something, call staff, ask us, we will confirm if it is legitimate.

Odds are for this body it is not going to be something that is legitimate.

The last update that I have for you all here is that um the FY27 budget process has been in full swing, even though we are only a few months here into FY26.

Um, live right now on the city's website is a community budget survey.

Um, so it asks the community to put in ideas for projects, identify your budget priorities, things of that nature.

That will be open, I believe, through November.

I will confirm the exact date of that.

And we actually got an email earlier today that we will forward on to you as commissioners that gives you like the link to that, but that's available on the city's website.

So for anyone who is interested in giving some feedback into that FY27 budget process, that would be a great avenue to do so.

Um, Commissioner Dumbo, you had mentioned earlier funding for contexts.

That is something that staff will absolutely be asking for in our FY27 budget.

So if you as individuals were also curious in asking for something like that, that would certainly be well received and appreciated by your HDC staff.

And that is all of staff's comments and updates.

Um before we move on, Katie, on that's on the topic of the budget survey.

I think we've already been sent that, haven't we?

I'm just looking back at my email.

Yeah, it's possible.

We had an email from Veronica Mitchell.

Oh, great.

On the 13th, a couple days ago.

Okay.

So she then sent it to us and said send it to commission, but I guess she sent it to the case.

I think she sent it to all the boards and commission.

Great.

Yep.

Thanks.

Thank you, Commissioner Denver.

Are there any questions of the staff?

Okay, next on the agenda is consent agenda.

Items may be approved per the staff report without discussion.

However, any person may request that the chair remove an item from the consent agenda for discussion and public comments before the vote.

We have several items on the consent agenda.

Would any of the commissioners like to pull anything off for discussion?

Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda?

I move that we approve the consent agenda.

Commissioner Gofinger, is there a second?

Commissioner Shinge.

A second.

All in favor of the motion, raise your hand.

So yay.

Aye.

All opposed saying nay.

Motion passes five to zero.

The next item is um approve a approval of minutes for September 18th, 2025.

Have all the commissioners had a chance to review the minutes.

Okay.

Is there a motion to approve the minutes of for September 18th, 2025?

Sorry, Madam Chair.

Didn't we just do that as part of the consent agenda?

I'm looking at the consent agenda and the only item on that.

Yes, we only have one item, which is the minutes.

Okay, next item on the agenda is certificate of approval.

A 2026-145-COA.

The applicant is Frank Stolvick.

If I have Ms.

Panachan, then I apologize.

The request is for certificate of approval to install 36 solar panels on the roof of the home.

Is there a staff report?

Yes, there is a second here.

Okay, this is a review for 2026 145 COA.

And you will notice that on our um applications, we do have a new numbering system based on us using the new uh MGO system.

So that's why the number looks like this.

Um this is from 21 Martins Lane, and it is for solar panels on the roof.

Uh 21 Martins Lane is part of the Hebron House Historic District.

Uh the house itself was designated in 2017.

And as part of that, um, the land, as you can see over here on the um map, the land is quite large, and so two other additional houses were built with that house there.

So it became the uh Hebron House Historic District.

The two new houses, one was built, uh was approved in 2017, the other one in 2020.

And so that's 21 Martins Lane, and that's the one that we're looking at, which is right here.

If you can see my um cursor, 19 Martins Lane is here in the back, and then this is uh 17 Martins Lane.

So as you can see, 19 Martins Lane was approved originally to have um solar panels on the roof, so you can see those solar panels here.

So the house that was built after that, they are seeking to have solar panels as well.

And looking at the picture here from the street view from the right of way, you can see how far in the uh rear of the house is so you can see that there won't be much impact as far as the um the solar panels on the roof facing the street.

So these are just views of the house.

This is the front of the house.

This is what you see from Martin's Lane.

Um, so they're looking to put panels here.

Uh, this is the rear of the house, and as you can see from the rear, there's nothing to be seen because of the height.

You're looking at the west side, and this is what the neighbor would see from one side, and then looking at the east side, this is the other side of the house.

So they do plan to put the uh solar panels on all planes, almost all planes of the um roof.

So you can see here in the rear, there's going to be 13 panels on each side of each plane of the roof, and that's the east and west side, and then here in the front, this is over the uh entrance to the front door, and it's sort of a side-facing entrance.

So there's going to be seven panels here, and then here on this um east plane over the garage, there will be four more panels.

So um the panels themselves, and I also you can see the roof here, so you can see exactly the location of the panels, but you can see that they won't be visible from the street, and as a newer house, um it's not going to impact anything as far as the historic integrity of the uh site.

So the proposal to install a roof mounted solar panels meets the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation number nine, and staff recommends approval.

Do you have questions for me?

Uh seeing none.

Is the applicant uh owner representative here?

Could you click please?

Would you like to say something?

Hi.

I'm Frank Stubachak, owner 21 Martins Lane.

I I don't have any comments, but I'm here in case you guys had any questions.

Commissioner Goldfinger.

Thank you.

Thank you, madam chair.

No question for the uh property owner, but I'm just curious.

Uh this particular house was only built several years ago, so it's not really historic.

Um I'm just wondering the reason why they the owner is coming to the historic district commission.

Um, and is it because it's on a historic site?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So the property where the house was located was designated as historic, and then after that designation, two of these houses were proposed to be developed.

So because they are on land that's within the historic district, they are required even as new construction to come to the HDC.

Interesting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Audience questions or comments.

Okay, thank you very much.

Anyone from the public wishing to comment on this agenda item?

Okay.

Ms.

Pegier, did we receive any written comments?

No, we didn't.

If there's no further questions for staff or applicant, I will close the public hearing and open the floor for the commission discussion.

So are there any comments from the commission?

No.

Okay.

So may I hear a motion for 2026-145-COA certificate of approval to install 36 solar panels on the roof of the home?

I'll move, madam chair.

Commissioner Falsa Falsaman.

Is there a second?

I did read the motion.

I just said I would move.

I didn't read the whole.

Okay.

Yeah.

I move the commission approved certificate of approval application 2026-145-coa 21 Martin's lane.

The work meets the Secretary of Interior's standards for rehabilitation number nine.

Commissioner Golfinger.

And discussion on the motion.

All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand.

Cye.

Okay, the motion passes five to zero.

Thank you.

And good luck with your project.

Okay.

The next item on the agenda is B 2026 176 as COA.

The applicant is Akari Electric.

Henry Caraso contractor.

And certificate for of approval to install EV charger.

Ms.

Bazierri, is there a report?

Yes, sir.

COA is three.

Can you see that?

Yes.

Okay.

This is for uh 20 2026, 1766 on Anderson Avenue, and they're seeking to put a uh EV charger on the house.

Oh so this is the house, and this is actually another newer house as far as um it was constructed as part of a rede resubdivision of property.

So as you can see here on the map, this is 100 forest.

This is 301 Anderson, and this is 303 Anderson.

104s was subdivided and uh 301 and 303 Anderson were constructed as a result of that.

So I believe that was in 1994, 95.

So this is a house, 301 Anderson Avenue.

This is the front of the house.

Uh and also you're looking at the side elevation.

So the side elevation is where they're seeking to place the uh EV unit, EB charger, and you can see better here, but I think, yeah, you did see that.

Okay, uh, yeah, you can see a better view of where it's going to go at.

So this shows the location of where the charger would be.

And as I said, this is a newer home.

They will have to uh drill holes in to make it a hard hardwire directly into the house.

This is the unit, um, the Emporia Classic Level 2 EV charger.

And I was able to go literally on Amazon.com to get information about this.

So other people that might be looking and interested in in chargers, the fact that Amazon carries charges, I think is pretty great.

So anyway, uh, this is where the charger is going to be located.

As you can see, it's right there with the utilities, so it won't make a big difference.

And additionally, there is a bush here in here, so that you won't be able to see it from the right of way.

And this is the site plan, so you can see this is where the charger will be located on the house.

So the proposal to install roof roof mounted solar panels meets the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation, number nine, and staff recommends approval.

That's the end of my report.

Do you have any questions for me?

I do have a question, especially.

Sure.

Commissioner.

That's the presentation.

Okay, so you mentioned that the EV charger is like it's hidden behind the bush.

Yes.

Okay, so what if the bush is no longer there?

Maybe that's a point.

It is a historic um bush there.

It is a large, large bush.

So there's likely that if it is removed, they will have to go through the HDC.

Okay.

But if it is removed, we can request that something else is placed there to uh conceal it.

Okay.

Yeah, I just wanted the the wording of the um the proposal um talks about uh roof mounted solar panels, not about oh gosh, thank you for catching that.

This is for the EV charger, so don't read that.

Here it is over here.

This is the uh motion.

Okay.

That was my question.

The owner is online, ma'am.

Okay, great.

If you can hear me, I'm Keithra's owner 301 Anderson, and I I similarly, as before, don't have any comments, but I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you.

Are there any questions?

Um did you receive any written comments?

No, we did.

Oh, wait a minute.

This is 301 Anderson.

I don't believe that we received two pieces of testimony from the public um neighbors, I believe, in support of the project.

Um those pieces of testimony did arrive in time for the publication of our brief books, so they are included in the packet of materials for tonight's meeting.

Okay.

So is there a motion to approve?

I move the commission approved the approval application 2026, 176 UE, uh 301 Anderson Avenue.

The walk means the circuit of the interior standards for rehabilitation number nine.

All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand or say the motion passes file to zero.

Um, it's a sign of the times when the prior item was about solar panels, and this is about electric chargers.

Okay.

That was going on 15, 20 years ago.

That's true.

I'd like to thank the owner for joining us tonight, and good luck with your project.

Thank you, ma'am.

Welcome.

Next item on the agenda is number four evaluation of significance.

And it's 2026-01202.

The applicant is College Plaza Partners Limited Partnership, Brian Miller.

And it's for demolition proposed.

Is there a staff report?

Yes, there is.

This is HDC Tuney 2601202 for 15100 Frederick Road.

Um, this is the College Gardens shopping plaza.

So you're pretty pretty familiar with this on Frederick.

And so what they're seeking to do is to remove just one portion of a building that's part of the buildings.

And you can see right here, these are what's called the plaza shops.

And basically they would like to remove this particular building because they're having a problem with people knowing that this building that these shops are back here, they don't get much business because they're kind of blocked by this one building, which also has uh tenants in it or had tenants in it.

But this is a view looking at it from Hunger Fruit Road.

So College Plaza shopping center, you're probably all familiar with the Dunkin' Donuts there, and then the um retail that's here.

But the uh particular building that they're seeking to demolish is way in the back behind the parking lot.

And so people tend not to go back that far.

And so this is uh hopefully will help them to draw in tenants as well as business.

So once again, as you can see, this is the building that they're seeking to remove.

The plaza shops are back here.

Uh this shows actually the rear of the building, which faces inward.

But as you can see here, there is a um vestibule that leads to the rear so that you can get to there.

But here at the uh rear here, we have the pull this up a little bit more.

We have the um the actually the feature here is the the roof and then the brick, it sits pretty low, but basically these deep openings, these deep cuts you see are actually back doors into the businesses that are located into the tenant spaces.

So what you don't see is the doors because the doors actually face sideways for each of the businesses.

So basically what will happen is they will have to remove, and I didn't get all the details, but I'm pretty sure they're gonna have to remove actual uh opening into the vestibule in order to remove the building itself.

But as you can see, if you walk back into the vestibule, that's where you see the businesses at, but you have to get back there in order to see them there.

So this is an example of what that um buildings look like, what the storefronts look like that you're looking to demolish.

Um didn't have a picture of the actual storefront itself, but this just gives you an idea.

Once you get down through the vestibule, these are the uh businesses that you see.

So once that vestibule is removed, then these will be visible from the parking lot, and they do plan to add additional parking where the where the building is seeking where they're seeking to remove the building.

So finding that the building proposed for demolition at 15100 Frederick Road does not meet any of the historic district commission's HDC's adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance staff recommends against historic designation.

And I do want to say that uh the whole complex was constructed in 1974.

Um, and it did open up as part of the College Park um College Park community that's behind there, but in order to enhance the uh buildings and enhance the businesses themselves.

This is the one change that they would like to make to that.

And it has had consistently the same owners.

It started out that they were leasing the property and then they purchased the property, but they have had consistently the same owners since they opened in 1974.

So this is the end of my presentation.

Do you have any questions for me?

Are there any questions on the staff?

No.

Okay.

And I guess my question question would be for the the owner.

Um I have no question.

Um public waiting to comment on this agenda item.

Okay.

The owner would you like to come forward and speak?

Please identify yourself.

Good evening.

Uh Matt Gordon from the law firm of Sells or Gurvich on behalf of the applicant and uh Michael De Janeiro is here uh from Combined Properties, who's an affiliate of the owner.

Um, we appreciate the staff report and we're in agreement with their recommendation.

Um, and excited about making this change to hopefully create some outdoor uh seating and cafe space.

Um, and just oh allow for greater visibility and viability for the tenants that are back there.

Uh, but we're available to answer any questions that you have.

I think you just answered my question.

So any questions of the applicant or comment.

A comment.

Sorry.

Um I I live in college gardens and I I'm in that shopping center all the time, New York Mart and the Indian grocery.

And um it's a it I I think this is a really good idea.

I think it's a great, I think it'll be an improvement.

Obviously, you do as well.

So I think it's um I'm I'm pleased to see that there's efforts being made to sort of you know modernize this the the shopping center and and improve the improve the lot for the tenants.

So yeah, good good plan.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions or comments?

Okay, seeing none.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Did we receive any written comments regarding this um application?

We have not.

Okay, thank you.

If there's no further questions for staff or the applicant, I will close the public hearing and open a floor for commissioner's discussion.

Are you any other comments from the commission?

Okay.

Now I hear a motion for 2026-01202.

Um, I'll make the motion, Madam Chair.

Um, finding that the building proposed for demolition at fifth one 15100 Frederick Road does not meet any of the historic district commission's adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance.

I move that the HDC recommend against historic designation.

Thank you, Commissioner Dimbo.

Is there a second?

Commissioner Gofinger.

Any discussion on the motion.

No, okay.

All in favor of the motion, raise your hand and say aye.

Hi.

Okay, motion passes five to zero.

Thank you, and good luck on your project.

Next item on the agenda is item number five discussion.

We have A for all business.

Is it a staff report?

Um, just a few staff remarks.

So this is a follow-up to our September meeting where we announced that on October the 6th, the mayor and council um would review and discuss the proposed revisions to the historic preservation sections of the zoning ordinance.

That discussion did in fact happen on October 6th.

I know a few of you were in attendance at that meeting for the annual report earlier.

Um, I would say overall the meeting went really well.

The mayor and council was largely in agreement with staff and the HDC's recommendations on nearly everything.

Um the one item where they have provided some direction to staff to make modifications is the item um regarding owner consent for the designation of properties.

Um so the way that the proposal was phrased going into the conversation is that if we have an instance where the owner does consent to the designation, that we would simply need a majority vote in order to move that along in the process.

Um, however, if the owner is silent or if the owner actively dissents against that designation, a unanimous vote of the body would be required.

Um the direction that we receive from mayor and council is they would like to see that switched around a little bit and make it so it has to be kind of an adamant no to trigger that higher bar um that if the owner is silent, it should not require a unanimous consent.

So they have um this is consistent with some of the discussion that this body had in July.

Um so they've directed staff to go ahead and make some of those edits.

We are actively working with our legal team on how we rephrase the wording of that section of the code.

Um the entire zoning ordinance is still on track to be released in advance of the December 1st mayor and council meeting.

Um it will be big.

It it will be quite lengthy.

Um, along with the draft of the actual code itself, there's also going to be what we've been calling kind of a cliffs notes version that highlights like the major changes and directs folks to specific pages so that way somebody can look through and they can kind of say, Oh, I care about this, I care about this, and they know exactly where to look, and they don't have to skim through what I imagine will be a several hundred-page document.

Um so we will certainly keep you in the loop there.

Um the one thing that I will kind of open up to this body, and we don't need to commit to anything tonight.

Um, but if you all as a body would like to review that draft once it is made publicly available, and or make a statement about that draft as it's considered by the planning commission and mayor and council, let staff know so we can add that to a future agenda item.

Um, so that's something that this body can discuss in open session.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any questions or comments?

Commissioner False.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you, madam chair.

Um, Katie, thank you for bringing this up.

Uh I would recently attended, I live in the West End attended one of the uh civic associations listening sessions and a board meeting.

And at both of those instances, two separate meetings.

But both of those instances, this uh topic was brought up.

And so for clarification, could you just repeat what it is that the uh amendment will be in terms of if a property someone brings it up for designation, who can who can do that, how it's done, and then the end result, please.

So the proposal going into mayor and council and coming out is that the actual filing of an application to nominate a property for historic designation could be done by one of three groups, three groups, those groups being the historic district commission, the mayor and council, or the property owner itself.

So if there is an instance where there is a third party who is interested in seeing a site be designated, they would appeal to one of those three bodies that I just mentioned and ask them to file a nomination application.

Um so there has been no discussion thus far of changing that um between this body or the mayor and council.

Where it's going to get tweaked, and I can't tell you exactly what it's going to say because we've not written exactly what it's going to say yet, is um what the bar is to move forward in that sectional map amendment process.

Um so, as you all recall, because we've done this relatively recently in 2024 with the designation of four courthouse square, um, the way that the process works is an application nominating the property is filed.

Um, and at that point, staff produce a staff report, we give it to you all, and we say to you all, do you think this it's an evaluation of significance is what it is.

So we ask you, do you think this meets one or more of our nine designation criteria?

Yes or no.

Um if the answer is no, like it was this evening, end of the story, we move on.

If the answer is yes, then the next step in that process is the filing of a sectional map amendment, um, which is really an application to change the zoning code because or the zoning map, because we are rezoning a property into a historic district and applying all the regulations that come with that historic district zone to the property.

So the proposed change here regarding consent would come for that sectional map amendment process.

Right now we need a majority.

We need a majority of you as the HDC.

If you a majority says yes, it moves on to the mayor and council.

We need a majority of that body to say yes.

So for you all with five, that would be three.

The proposal that was kind of brought forward is changing how many is needed to vote in the affirmative, depending on if the owner consents or not.

So if the owner consents, we would still just need that simple majority.

In this case, it would be three.

And as was proposed to mayor and council, if the owner did not consent or was silent, you would need a unanimous.

So that bar would be higher.

The direction that we received from the mayor and council is we maybe almost want to create like a third system.

What happens if the owner is an enthusiastic?

Yes, I want this.

What happens if the owner is agnostic for lack of a better word, if they don't make a comment one way or another?

And then what happens if the owner is an enthusiastic?

No.

This is something that they're vocally against, and wanting to reflect that maybe we don't treat someone who's silent the same way we treat someone who's an enthusiastic, no.

So we're working through exactly how we're gonna massage that language in the draft, but it would be differentiating that.

Um thank you.

Um I know that people in the West End will be happy to hear that um that there might be some possible change because there were strong concerns.

Audio, any other comment?

Commissioner Dunbow?

Um first I have a question for Peter.

What were those concerns about?

Like, do you know what direction they were?

I'm just curious.

Um, so the direction was more of um making sure that properties that do meet the criteria to become historic, move in the direction of being designated, even if the property owner may be not happy about it or not wishing to do it.

I mean there's pros and cons to that, but the pros are that we save a historic piece of property or structure.

The cons are that the property owner may not exactly be happy and doesn't want to have to deal with what comes with owning a historic property.

Um I'm pleased to hear that.

I think I was I feel like there's especially when we had that when mayor and council had the discussion on um on the sixth, that there's real anxiety about that, you know, about about not letting a bit on among several of the members of council, I think they think that we should be leaning more towards giving um a lot more decision making power to the owners, and that worries me because I think you know there's lots of things that property owners have to adhere to um that they may not like, you know.

I think they think that we should be leaning more towards giving um a lot more decision-making power to the owners, and that worries me because I think you know there's lots of things that property owners have to adhere to um that they may not like, you know.

We have to mow our lawns.

There's a lot of things we have to do that some people may have an issue with.

And I feel like giving a property owner too much power in that decision-making property could really hamstring the city when we're trying to preserve things.

Um, Katie, will we get to see that that what you're sending to Mayor and Council?

Um you will see it when everybody sees it, which will be 10 days before the December 1st meeting.

So if I could do math, I could tell you when that was.

Okay.

Um, but that's when it's first going to be publicly put out.

We're anticipating a six to seven month adoption process.

So there will be plenty of time from when it's originally released.

If we do want to bring it back and have a session specifically focused on that exact language, we can absolutely do so.

I think I would like that.

Um and I also, while I'm speaking up, I would recommend to my fellow commissioners if you haven't already to watch that section of the discussion at Mayor and Council on the 6th.

It's on the it's it's easy to get to it if you can click on the it the bookmarks will take you directly to that.

And they didn't discuss it for that long.

I think it took about 20 minutes.

So it's worth listening to just to get a sense about what mayor and council members of Mayor and Council are thinking about historic preservation.

Thank you.

Yeah.

All right, so I have a question.

Yeah.

I would still know installation of solar panels.

I think I don't know the house that we spoke about 21 Martins Lane.

The house was constructed by like sort of eight years ago.

So if the house were to be like 60 years, would the process be the same?

Yes, because the process is the fact that it's on historically designated land.

That's why this process applies.

Okay, so like an older house might have some kind of maybe older maybe um challenges compared to a newer house.

So would that be taken into consideration?

Can you give me an example or a little more specifics?

Like older houses are built with like all the building materials, older installations, and your houses might not might be built with like newer material.

So would a process like sort of be the same with the solar panels?

The process would be the same.

It would still be a certificate of approval that would come before this body and have a public hearing.

Nothing about the process would change.

Now, ultimately, what you as a commission may decide to do is take into consideration the context of that property.

So to your point, the context of um a home that was built 10 years ago is very different from a home that was built a hundred years ago, and something might be compatible on one historic property but not compatible on another property.

So, yeah, that would absolutely be a part of you all as commissioners, you know, applying the secretaries of interior standards, the technical guides, all of those things to make a decision based on the context of that historic district in that site.

Okay.

Commissioner False Falconom.

So backing up, not to keep harping on the designating historic property, but can you clarify who can actually do that?

The property owner could do it, the HTC could do it.

The three people who can file an application asking it to be considered would be the HDC, the mayor and council, or the historic district or or the property owner, those three groups.

Ultimately, who decides if it gets designated is the mayor and council.

They are the one that need to approve that sectional map amendment.

So let's say um, and forgive me, Nancy, but let's say Pureless Rockville has a property in mind that they think should be designated.

How would that happen?

I imagine it would happen the same way for Courthouse Square did um during public comment.

They said, hey, we think you should look at this property.

We think it has some merits.

I think in that case, they provided staff with some of their research to kind of justify why they think this is a good case.

And so we turned it over to you all and say, hey, do you want to consider this?

And if you give staff the direction, then we would start that process.

And so if some just the neighbor, next door neighbor, not on any of the bodies we've talked about, not a member of Peerless thinks the property should be designated.

How does that work?

So they could certainly come to an HTC meeting and in public comment, they can make a comment.

They could also send written comments in that way.

Okay.

Thank you for clarifying.

Are there any other questions or comments?

Commissioner Dimbo.

So that's not the case right now.

Anybody can do it right now, right?

That's correct.

Right.

Okay.

Okay.

So my comment is I believe that the owners should have the right to decide whether or not their property should be designated or not.

Are do you any other comments?

Okay.

Thank you.

We're going to move on to the item B.

Um the King Farmstead.

King Farm Farmstead that we added to the agenda.

So do we just come from the commission or do we issue or staff?

So it can be anywhere.

The comments that staff kind of have prepared for this is letting you all know, which you know because we've talked about this, is that that's coming before the mayor and council on October the 20th for review and consideration possible adoption there.

Um let me see my other notes here.

The agenda packet has been published, um, that the draft of the master plan is available.

We've talked about that already tonight.

Um, just a couple of other comments um from staff meetings that I've been present in about this project that I think are relevant to this body is you know, uh at the core, it's a facility master plan that's kind of outlining a vision primarily for uses of the property.

You'll see in that master plan, there are um kind of conceptual like layouts of what the spaces would look like.

There are some conceptual renderings that show what alterations would look like.

Um, I think it's important to note that the master plan is not saying this will happen exactly like that.

Um, as you all know, you have jurisdiction over alterations to historic structures.

So the concept, the the renderings that are in there, I think you need to view with a little bit of a grain of salt because they've not been designed yet.

They're they're pretty pictures that are meant to kind of elicit a sentiment and a feeling.

You will absolutely be involved when it comes time to make any of these modifications.

Um, as you all know, because many of you have been here for multiple years, um our wreck and parks department in particular is really good about doing courtesy reviews with this body before they do any alterations to their buildings.

I know um we've talked about stream restoration projects that they've done.

We've talked about EV chargers that they've done.

So you all absolutely have a quasi-judicial role in this process, where it admittedly is a little bit gray of what is your role in the master plan specifically.

Your quasi-judicial role doesn't apply to that necessarily, but you all are uh elected or an appointed board and commission here in Rockville that has expertise in historic preservation.

So there is nothing that legally you are required to do, but you all as a commission can decide if there are comments that you would like to make, um, whether that is holistically as a commission or whether that's as individuals.

Now, the one thing that I will say is if there are comments that as a commission we would like to be made to the mayor and council, we should talk about those tonight in open session, and then staff can draft either a letter that contains those comments, or we can draft um a script or something like that if somebody wanted to verbally give those comments.

Are there any questions or comments regarding what the staff just stated?

No.

I have some um commissioner Falsom.

Uh wait, I'm sorry to clarify this is just talk about it in general, or well, you can you can respond to what she just said, or but we will have our chance to comment as well as a commission.

Okay, so just in terms of what you had discussed, Katie.

Um, I was a little surprised to, and I understand, but I was a little surprised to hear that the HDC is not more involved in this master plan process itself, because it's kind of like putting the cart before the horse.

And once the master plan is approved, it almost solidifies everything moving forward, and basically all that's left for the HTC to do is to maybe decide whether that we want to see those ugly windows on the side of the barn that have been proposed, or um I don't know.

It just seems kind of odd that we haven't played a larger role in it since the property itself is historic, but I understand what you're saying, and I understand the legality of it.

So I but I just wanted to state that.

Okay, thank you.

Any other comments?

Commissioner Dimbo.

Yeah, I um thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a few things.

Um I know what Katie said about it not being we not having a like a legal role in this, but that we are an appointed body.

And I I think from things we've heard from especially Mayor Ashton and also some other members of the council, that they really value our input.

They want to hear what we have to say.

Um I was told flat out by Monique about the zoning ordinance rewrite that they wanted more from HDC about what we thought of the the historic preservation aspects of that, which was what um what prompted me to write my letter.

Um so I think I think they would welcome hearing from us on this now rather than at the point at which we're gonna say no, yes or no to the you know in a legal fashion to the process.

Um that said, I think, and and I agree with Peter that I think we should have been more involved earlier in this process.

Um they I think what what we should do now, and this is my suggestion for for how we should move forward at this point, is that we should write a letter to Marin Council, probably tomorrow, really, since they're supposed to be discussing it on um Monday, saying we're pleased to see that this process is happening.

We would like to be more involved.

Um, but we can't be more involved if you're only gonna give us six days to read a foreign to read a hundred-page report, which we weren't even given.

We only I only know about that because you know, because I've I've signed up for the the um the notifications from engaged rock fill and and um um Nancy kindly um sent it to me.

So I think we um we would we should write a letter asking them to postpone this discussion and possible uh um approval or adoption, and so that more people, not just us, the members of the public have a chance to really read this and digest it.

Um I think the the letter that came from somebody in the King Farm um association today said more or less the same thing.

There isn't enough time to do this, um, so that we have time and them and the wider public has time and other commissions potentially.

I mean, planning commission may want to weigh in at this point too, um, to review this extensive report and digest it and have time to prepare a response.

So that would be my suggestion for where we should go from here on this.

Um Commissioner Dimbo request.

I would agree.

I mean, to in terms of requesting that it's postponed to give not only the public more time to digest it, but us to digest it because the presentation that was made to us is very different from the actual longer document that was presented to the mayor and council and it's and it's public information, and shame on me for not realizing that when we got this the presentation of the last time.

I didn't realize there were two different documents, one was more elaborate and one was sort of a brief one, which I understand we didn't want to stay here all night long to read 1800 pages at the last meeting, but um it there is a huge difference.

And to that point, I think part of that is that longer presentation was not prepared for our meeting, like it it was not done.

They needed a work session in order to get there.

So, yes, I agree with you that they are different.

I don't think it was an intentional omission towards this body, but more of decisions and discussions had not yet happened that informed that final packet.

I I do have in this, we can do this in a minute, but I do have concerns about what I saw on the longer document, but we can talk about that after everyone else makes their comments.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Commissioner.

Yeah, just wondering, uh I agree with uh what Seth just said, but what's the process for doing that?

Do we um propose a motion and have staff um you don't need a formal motion?

Um so we could do this as a straw poll.

Um, but what I would ask is once we've had discussion, I'm diligently taking notes.

I will summarize what I have heard from you all.

I will ask for a thumbs up or thumbs down to see if enough of you are interested in having those comments sat along, and then staff would go ahead and draft a letter on behalf of the commission.

Historically, we have sent um when commission sent something, we send it to the chair and ask the chair to be the signatory of that document.

Okay.

Um thank you.

Commissioner Dimbo, you had you had your light on.

Sorry.

Are there any other comments?

That's my cue to call on you, sorry.

Okay, so discussion.

So I agree definitely that we should send a letter and ASW postpone it so that we have more time as long as as well as with the public to review the document and provide them with that comments because I think we should have been involved in this from the beginning since we are the experts in voices should have been heard.

So include my name as well.

Um finger.

Include me as well if you're taking a straw poll.

I'm on board as well.

I'm on board.

Thank you.

We are all on board.

So I'm gonna say what I think I've heard as far as the contents of that letter, and then I look to this body for any revisions or additions.

Um what I've heard is um uh a comment or a statement saying in general, we're glad we're planning, we're doing an effort here at the King Farm Farmstead.

Um, that this body would like to be more involved, um, that we have concerns about the length of time that was given for this body and the general public to review the plan and then ask for a postponement of adoption of the plan.

Is that consistent?

Am I missing things?

Are there other things you would like to be included in that letter?

Do we have to give a timeline or can we just park it there?

I would not give a timeline.

I think just want to make sure that's calendaring is a more complicated beast.

I think asking for a postponement would be sufficient.

Okay.

I'd like to Commissioner Bimbo.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, just like be a bit firm about how six days is not enough for us to review a hundred page document.

I mean, I know the bigger thing that's in their agenda book is is thousands of pages, but the the public document, the public master plan, is over a hundred pages.

And I've glanced at it, and I'm glad to hear um some of my other fellow commissioners have looked at it more carefully, but I have really haven't had time to digest it.

And I know there is a section in there about historic preservation.

Um but I also concerned, I mean, when we got that presentation, and I raised this with the woman who presented it to us, you know, she the one of the first things she said was that there was you know that history was something that people really valued when they did the visioning sessions, and then she didn't mention it again during her presentation.

So I think we need to to kind of be pretty pretty um, I don't know.

Firm, I guess is the better is a better word just to say you know, six days isn't enough.

We need more time, and we really want to be involved, and we think we have a lot to offer the process.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Any more comments?

Remarks regarding what will be written or do I have to?

No.

Okay, so I guess we're all on board with this.

Thank you so much.

So I will draft that, and madam chair, I will send it to you probably tomorrow afternoon for your approval and signature.

Okay, thank you.

Could I mention a couple things about the actual document?

Okay.

Commissioner False false.

Well, thank you, madam chair.

Just very briefly.

I swear I will be brief.

Uh, one is I noticed on the elevations the I said earlier the ugly windows that have been proposed, but I also heard you say, Katie, that those are sort of schematic.

So I'm glad to hear that there'll be some more discussion about that.

Uh that just seemed completely out of place when I when I saw the elevations.

Two, I didn't, and I may have missed it, it's a huge document, but I didn't see any talk of what they're gonna do with the silos.

Um, which I've seen a lot of old barns and silos that have been converted into some magnificent uses inside, but still maintain the exterior and the historic look.

So that's a concern.

Um, and then the the third and last thing is I wasn't aware of a hundred space parking lot being proposed until I saw it in the larger document.

And that's a little um unnerving because I was the one that was the dissenting vote in the first go-around a couple years ago about losing all those trees to build a 47 space parking lot, and now they're talking about building a hundred space parking lot.

I understand that we need parking, so I get that part, especially if they want to turn it into um a community center because they're gonna need the parking, obviously.

So I hope when they do it, what I understood from the document was there's some discussion of some using pervious surfaces, so that when they're not cars parked there, it just will mimic a pasture almost or grass.

So I'm glad to see that, but um, yeah, I'm not happy about having a hundred more.

There'll be 147 parking spaces, and I think that's a lot for such a small piece of property that's historic, but I do understand.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any other comments regarding this item?

Commissioner Singer, you have your light on.

I have a question on the defense item.

Something different.

Is this under old business or is it on the new business?

It's on the new business also panels.

Okay.

So thank you for that for the information.

So let's move on to item B, new business.

Commissioners, anything you would like to discuss or have questions of staff that has not been discussed, or would you like to bring it back to the next meeting?

Commissioner Shingang.

All right, no, I have a question on the solar panels again.

So I'm the solar panels when they are well maintained.

It can last for up to like 40 years.

So does a city also involves um maintenance on the residents.

I don't know specifically for solar panels.

I mean, we have our property maintenance code, which talks about kind of general maintenance to properties and homes.

I am not sure if there is anything specific to solar panels included.

I would think maybe not simply because that technology is relatively newer, and I can't imagine that an older code would have that in there, but I could certainly be wrong.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any other comments or questions or anything?

No.

Okay, so I wanted to come back and talk a little bit about the commissioner's strategic priority or budget items.

Uh we would like to introduce or add to the next budget cycle.

Um, I would like to continue advocating for installing plaques or signage for our historic properties, updating African American brochure and lost Rockville brochure.

There are other and they should be put on sites if there are sites that are included now, historic properties as part of the budget.

So do you all have anything that you want to add to the to our strategic priority or budget items?

I know we talked earlier about the signage and I think that it looks um, excuse me.

Uh Commissioner Shing, I didn't hear something to add to the okay.

All right, so I I recommend that we'll add um some kind of training or like a platform where we can train younger people on things on historic preservation.

You know, that means we spoke about the fact that most of them think that preservation is basically for older people.

So we should look for a way to put them on the same level or else time is coming well.

We won't have anyone talking about history preservation.

So maybe things like platforms, like uh working with colleges with students to make them know about preservation, how important it is.

If we don't do that, then time is coming well.

We might have nobody that believes in preservation.

So that can be on the plan.

Okay.

Um, I know that we have uh preservation conference, and so maybe we're talking about something a little different.

Yeah, I mean, in addition to the conference, more of on the educational perspective.

Um I guess the question would be would um if we are if we conduct that training session, I don't is would that be on a budget item?

Would we have to would it be a budget item or just part of our strategic plan?

If we're talking about like a standalone event or a series of events, I don't think that would need to be budgeted.

That would come out of operating dollars if there were any room rentals or materials that were needed or things of that nature.

We do have a modest budget for this commission for your training, um, so we could pull it out of there.

Um that's like when you all go.

I know many of you recently went to the National Association of Preservation Commissions um virtual conference that comes from that same fund.

Um, I don't think we would need a separate budget item for that.

So is there anything that the commissioners would like to add to the budget?

I mean, we've talked about it a couple of times, but Commissioner Goldfinger.

Thank you, madam chair.

Um just sort of putting together some thoughts, but um are there um ways to enhance or further uh highlight the city's history?

I I know Peelers does a lot.

I know you have some walking tours and such.

Um are there any other things can be done, advertising, maybe brochures in local hotels.

Uh that would direct people to these walking tours or something that um that would um great make the city's history more visible to both residents and visitors.

Um and it may not require a lot of funding, but maybe there's something that can be added to um, you know, I'm just I've never stayed in a local hotel because I live here.

So um but that may be maybe that's one aspect is or something, but things of that sort that we can do.

Um, you know, back to what I spoke to before on Chestnut Lodge.

Um history that's that's that's kind of been almost a race, not only Cheston Lodge, but there are historic cemeteries that um that are around and other you know aspects of some of uh our historic neighborhoods.

Um and I don't think people local Rockville residents, uh county residents, metropolitan area residents might be interested in.

Um anyway, that's something that uh you the experts can uh can deal with maybe.

Thank you.

I know in our local, I know when I go to the state hotel, I always want to know about the city.

I want to know what's there.

And I don't know if we have a not necessarily a partnership or a way in which we can um be involved with trying to promote um you know, historic preservation or the history of the city.

Um so I don't know.

I know we have a lot of local organizations that basically do that kind of work, but um, if you're a visitor to the city, um I know we have Montgomery County what is called visit the center.

Visit Montgomery.

Visit Montgomery.

Um I don't know if we have do we have such a presence in Rockview?

I can't I I would need to look into that.

I mean, I think this is definitely an item that is well suited for partnership opportunities rather than having this be something that the city does on its own.

Um we already have relationships with certain both economic development groups but also um historic and cultural tourism groups.

So I think this is something that those bodies are really well suited to kind of take on.

Um you don't want me to design a brochure and hotels, I can assure you of that right now.

Um but we have relationships with experts that this is what they do.

They understand what the kind of return on investment is and those sort of things.

I do want to know Miss Bashiri has had her hand raised here for quite a moment.

I just wonder what that was.

Hi.

Okay.

Um I did want to say that a lot of places have gone paperless, and um they will often, as far as local information goes, they will put a QR code in the room and allow the phone to give you the information on the tourist spots and things that that are local.

And I do know that our office has been working really hard to go paperless as well.

So um the fact that you know we're looking at doing brochures, we um probably need to look at how can we get these this information to people digitally and do less printing of paper.

Um just we need to consider how we can make that work.

And also, you know, looking at hotels and see, because you know you used to walk into a hotel and it would be all those bins of different tourist items, but is that still a thing?

Because I know that after COVID, a lot of people really just started changing the way that they communicate with uh the public.

So just wanted to take that into consideration.

Okay, thank you.

Um maybe what we can do is bring oh you want to say something?

Oh wait, so my comment, thank you, madam chair.

My comment was Commissioner False, thank you.

The um what Sheila just said with QR codes goes along with what Mercy was suggesting about trying to engage the younger folks in the community because they tend to use the phones constantly and they would I think take quickly to a QR code versus a brochure to look at many people still like brochures, but the younger groups definitely are using the QR codes.

Um which reminds me I was in the field this morning meeting with some folks with WSC and um I was pronounced old because I pulled a business card out to exchange versus yeah so you're just saying just saying okay I'll remember not to do that anymore.

So maybe what we can do is bring this back next month to see where we are with it.

Um I think this is an ongoing conversation and um question of staff.

Do you have a um I don't want to say the uh in terms of the budget?

I know that they I know the county does this anyway.

They you know listen to certain departments at a time to you know present their budget.

Is that something we do here in the city?

I can't remember.

Yeah, yeah, we do.

So typically the way that the budget process works is right now each division and department are drafting their own kind of internal operating budgets and their additional budget requests.

Um, my budget is due in about a week and a half here.

Um, and then it will go through several internal to city administration review layers, so it'll go through the director of our department and will work its way up to the budget office and the city manager, um, and then ultimately the city manager will recommend a budget that is publicly released, um, and that's when we will have opportunities for each department to give kind of a report out on what is included in their budgets, notable changes, things of that um nature that all happens during mayor and council meetings.

I want to say probably starting like February or so.

I haven't seen the exact calendar for this year, um, but our fiscal year ends June 30th.

We typically try to adopt the budget in May to give like a one-month offer there.

So, yeah, that absolutely happens, and then all the budget documents during that process are of course publicly available.

So you're saying that your part will be due in about a week, correct?

Okay, so anything that we want to add to the budget in terms of HDC to be included, and I will share with you, which might inform this conversation.

We have kind of two functions of our budget.

We have our operating budget.

So that's some of the things that we've already talked about.

Um, when you all as commissioners go to trainings, we do have funding to send Sheila, for example, to professional development opportunities.

Um, we have rotating funds in our operating budget for signage, and when I say signage, I'm talking about interpretive signage.

Um, so those kind of larger things like on a walking tour as well as the bronze plaque markers that we've started redistributing.

That's all in our operating budget.

We have funding put in there, you know, for events that might come up, things of that nature.

So if we're talking like small everyday things, we have that covered.

I don't think there's a need for this body um to make a formal request saying I want one interpretive sign in this, like we already have funds for that.

Then that second kind of component of it is if we have any additional budget requests.

Um, we intend to put in a budget request to do um a survey of the city.

Um, we have not updated our survey in far too long.

Um, we think that will be a many year several phase project.

Um, but we will be putting an enhancement request in for funding for a consultant to do that, with the hope that once we've surveyed all of the city, including areas we've not previously surveyed, that we could develop historic contexts that could be taken into consideration when you all are making your decisions.

Are there any comments?

No.

Okay, so last chance just comes to know thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

So um your part that's due next week.

Is that uh will that include comments that we make to the email that was sent out with the link for budget comments?

Or is that something separate kind of processes within the same budget generally?

So what I put forward is like staff's recommendation of this is what we want to see when the mayor and council do their evaluation of the budget, they then look at that survey that you're referencing and look at the community priorities, and then oftentimes they will go to see how does this match up the budgets that have been brought forward.

So to a certain extent, it informs a bit of what staff put in, but something could not be in a staff proposed budget, but the mayor and council see that it is a community priority, and during those work sessions can direct staff to include that in the budget.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Is there anything else or follow-up?

So you all are happy what staff has said and moving forward in terms of the budget.

Happy.

Happy, but we're happy.

Okay.

Happy but not happy.

So okay, so you have no more chances.

Bottom line.

I mean you have one week.

And so you're not doing that.

Okay.

And so we had mentioned stuff for the last two or three months on talking about the budget and what we would like to see in it.

It seems like it's been captured.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks again.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I was thinking, Katie.

Oh.

And Sheila.

Okay.

I can think of it.

You're welcome.

Okay, the next item on the agenda is number six to adjourn the meeting.

Is there a motion to adjourn a meeting?

I'll move to adjourn the meeting, Madam Chair.

Commissioner Falsaman, is there a second?

Commissioner Shingate, um, second the motion.

All in favor of adjourning the meeting, please say raise your hand.

Yeah.

Okay, thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.