Rockville, today is October 20th, 2025, and we're beginning meeting 25-25.

Please join me as you're able in the Pledge of Allegiance.

And through the Republic, we're just saying indivisible with liberty and justice.

Thank you.

We'll now move on to agenda review, Miss Sarah Taylor Pharrell.

Madam Mayor and Council members, there are no changes over the on the agenda for this evening.

Thank you.

And I just wanted to know if you checked on Friday, the previous Friday, uh, there were some agenda additions on 1013, 2025.

So now we'll move on to the city manager's report.

And Mr.

Mahilick.

Mayor Ashton, members of City Council, ladies and gentlemen.

Good evening.

A bunch of good news to share with you.

Last week, the City of Rockville received the municipal achievement award from the Maryland Municipal League for the diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility category.

We know that's a key initiative to this council and to the community, and we're very pleased to accept that award from the Maryland Municipal League.

And we received a lot of positive comments from people who are in attendance.

We're excited about that.

And speaking of that, um, we offered a number of great and diverse program offerings this past weekend.

We had the antique car show, we had a pickleball tournament, we have the F.

Scott Fitzdural Literary Festival.

So a little something for everybody.

So that was fantastic.

And it is budget season, so I would encourage anybody that has any ideas for next year's budget to go online and provide their comments.

That's all I have, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You just made me very excited about the budget survey.

Uh thank you for raising it, Mr.

Mahalic.

There is a survey shouldn't take more than five minutes or so to feed to fill out.

Um I did want to just uh thank staff for their submission and the work to receive that uh inclusion award.

It was specifically for uh ADA, which is making uh improvements throughout the city to support people with disabilities, and think the whole council has been very concerned about making progress in that area, and we're thrilled to see that come through.

So thank you.

All right, we'll now move on to boards and commissions, appointments and reappointments, and we have several for the youth commission.

Councilmember Leary.

Yes, hi, and we do have uh one of the soon to be new commissioners here in the audience as well.

Umor, I move to approve the new appointments to the youth commission of Sueya Bisby, Catherine Buxa, Desalin Early, and Andriana Gunsacara to serve a full one-year term until October 1st, 2026.

Councilmember Bank Rack.

Thank you.

It's been made motions and made and seconded.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Hi.

And with our new youth commissioner, please stand.

Hi.

Thank you.

Working to make sure Rockville is more inclusive and also including our youth voices and uh we now have a full youth commission, but there are other ways to get involved through the uh human rights commission ambassador.

If you are youth interested, please feel free to sign up for that.

We're now going to move on to community forum.

This is the time where we welcome feedback from our community.

All persons should address the mayor and council and speak in a civil and courteous manner, and members of the audience should be respectful to each other.

Each person is allowed three minutes, and we ask that you stick to those three minutes allowed.

There's a time clock in front of you, and you will hear an audible beep at the end of your three minutes.

Please state your name and if you live in Rockville for the record.

Our first speaker who signed up is Ilse Bay Urban.

Hi, um, my name is Illisabay Urban.

I live in Rockville proper uh in King Farm, and I'm here to comment on the part of the proposal for the um uh master plan for the farmstead.

And my first comment is it's a pretty complicated plan, and with only one week in advance.

I wish there was a little more time for people in the community to become better aware of what was involved and be able to read more fully through it.

And because it's fairly complex, I'm just going to stick to the major issue for from my perspective, which is the parking proposals.

And in particular, um, I would like to advocate for not having any parking next to the community garden for a variety of reasons.

The first being that if the parking is separated in separate areas, it makes it harder for people that are coming in to figure out where to park.

Having parking around on the back side instead of on the 355 side would bring extra additional traffic that would be unneeded directly into the King Farm community rather than on the outskirts.

This also would go across a walking path that goes that the parking driveway would have to go through if it's a fairly heavily used path.

So that would increase the uh potential for collisions between pedestrians and people in a hurry in their cars, where it's coming from 355, there are very few pedestrians on that side.

Um it would remove the possibility of any possible future expansion of the uh community uh farm, uh not farm uh garden area in that time area.

Um it would also negatively impact the experience of the people who are using um the community garden, having cars pulling up next to them, as well as negatively impact the um picnic pavilion that the city rents out because it would remove the entire um field area that is used when people are renting that, they tend to spill out into the grass over it.

Not to mention it's not a lot of fun to have a picnic in a pavilion right next to a driveway.

Um and finally, um I think any required lights for the lot and cars pulling in and out at night with their lights on would negatively impact all the neighbors by directly shining into everybody's houses.

And that's it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your feedback.

Next, we welcome Jack Jacobin.

Good evening, Madam Mayor and Resident Evil Council.

My name is Jake Jakovic.

I live at 319 Grandin Avenue here in Rockville.

I am the chair of the Rockville Bicycle Advisory Committee and I'm coming here to speak in my official capacity.

The Rockville Bicycle Advisory Committee and the Rockville Bike Cub are two separate organizations.

However, we both share just about all the same goals.

Our ultimate overarching goal is to get more people to ride bikes for whatever reason they wish, whether transportation fund exploration, whatever the case may be.

I'm coming here to advocate that the city allocate a space in the New King Farm Development for the permanent space for the Rockville Bike Hub.

Over the past five, six years, the bike hub has been between two or three different locations on North Washington Street, now they're on North Louis, not on Lewis Avenue.

My apologies.

And uh these are all fairly temporary spaces, and it becomes difficult for them to sort of settle and really serve the community when they might move in a couple of two or three years.

The current space is great.

I've been there a handful of times and hung out with the with the crew, however, it is not even big enough at the moment.

They have too much, they don't have enough space for everything they're trying to achieve.

So I'm coming here to speak that the when making all the decisions that the council allocate a permanent space for the Rockville Bike Hub in the in the King Farm Development, because it will help serve the city's transportation and uh environmental and like quality life goals.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Now we welcome former councilman Markishella.

Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council members.

I was hoping to be able to give this by PowerPoint and the policies gone back and forth several times.

And uh, since I can't display it electronically, here it is.

You see my PowerPoint.

Uh you'll get it tomorrow.

Um it's about the King Farm Farmstead.

I want to uh try to give you a couple of different perspectives uh on charettes, for example.

There are pros and cons to shreds that are very good for getting new ideas, but honestly, this one didn't give very many new ideas that's already been done.

But the choices tend to be out of context for the participant, and they are not representative.

They're not representative due to the number of people who participate, and they're not representative because of self-selection bias.

Uh, not considered in a charette are costs and budget, pacing and timing, impact on the community, for example, parking and traffic, historic building preservation, what has already been done there, and other large capital projects elsewhere in the city.

Um I a few months ago I advocated that this body asked for costs for option one.

You did not do that, but you really need to give the city staff instruction to go back and give option one costs.

It's not only the cost difference, which is pretty big, but it's the pacing.

It's the amount of parking that's required.

It's the flexibility.

I believe option four is actually less flexible than option one.

And for other reasons, you you really need to see the differences as an elected body between option one and option four.

As for the master plan, the draft master plan, the community needs more time.

Only now that the draft master plan has been released, can the trade-offs be adequately considered?

It was released one week ago, and it's big.

Some questions you need to ask, different questions that I've seen before.

What pacing is desired by this body?

What are you willing to pay over the years?

What can you do within the existing parameters?

For example, if you said we're going to stick with those 47 spaces, what could be done?

What could be done with the dairy barns as built now, as rebuilt now?

What could you do at the horse barn?

The most flexible of all spaces.

Now, in my PowerPoint, I had a picture of an upper level and a picture of a lower level of one of the dairy barns, and I put them together, one on top of the other.

And basically, what I show in my PowerPoint is that you're you're actually going to rebuild the dairy barns twice, a second time.

You're going to take the internal supports out and replace them.

It's really, I don't know about the shell, but internally it's a total demolition and reconstruction.

And I just find that appalling.

If you want, if you want to have that two two-story uh auditorium, that kind of stuff, uh, that's what's going to happen.

Uh, finally, I don't give up on the horse barn.

Uh, I'll put that in my PowerPoint, but it's really the most flexible space you have there, and the one that should be done first.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome, Anna Chung.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council members.

My name is Anna Chung.

I'm a Rockville resident and community gardener in the farmstead.

I'm here tonight to respectfully urge you to pause the adoption of the King Farm Farmstead Master Plan until a traffic traffic and parking study is completed, and until a design can be created that fits within the site's existing parking constraints.

Parking has come as an afterthought in this process.

A study should have done been done up front to understand the physical constraints.

During the visioning sessions earlier this year, none of the pretty pictures on the boards that we were all putting stickers on came with a caveat that it would mean losing an open field.

When the four design options were presented to you in the July work session, there was no mention of adding parking lots.

Only in the September meeting did it come up that there was a potential to pave over some of the open spaces to accommodate cars.

This site is needed to be a park and resid and recreational facility, which means preserving large public open green space.

The collective design report states that when asked, what makes the King Farm Farmstead special?

Stakeholders identified open space as one of the farmstead's greatest attributes.

This is a 20 million dollar city investment that deserves the time and diligence to get it right to enhance, not to diminish the value that this park offers its residents.

Last Saturday, hopefully people got outside.

It was a gorgeous fall day.

I went up to the garden to harvest some vegetables and found that a family was using the pavilion.

The parents were setting up decorations, grilling food, and there was a six-year-old girl just frolicking in the field, having the time of her life, rolling down the hill.

The value of that grassy field is really important and shouldn't be discounted.

Replacing the field with a parking lot could change the character of the site forever.

This corner of Rockville has already lost a significant open space with a recent EYA development to the north of King Farm.

The farmstead is intentionally deeded as a park.

Please honor that commitment.

Conduct a parking and traffic study, design a plan within the current limitations, and then adopt a master plan.

Thanks.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Next, we welcome Dreva Diego Kumar.

You know, I asked for more time, but I'll do what I can.

Okay.

Uh thank you, Honorable Mayor Ashton.

Thank you, Honorable Mayor Ashton for presiding and leading, for presiding and leading on this open democracy forum.

I have to say it two times because I'm a uh perfectionist um precision, and last week I didn't say this phrase the right way.

Now, a pledge of allegiance to the flag of British America, our founders and drafters of our USA Constitution, MAGA America First, rule of law.

I pledge allegiance to rule of law.

I do not pledge allegiance to subversive, Latin American Central American illegals, undocumented invasion Cuba, China, AOC brawling directive, social dems, commies for their economic benefit only.

I do not pledge allegiance to Facebook, about to be trillionaire Mark Zuckerzucker, Zucker Sucker, who's married to a future potential commie dominate China, dominate us also.

Repstein Epsteins, please stop extorting me.

Um and my family, extort him.

Actually, don't extort him either.

Okay.

Don't extort uh Zucker sucker either.

Now, this is for audience here.

This information here is not directed to any individual here in this panel or you all as a group.

It's for this audience here and beyond county leaders and so forth.

So please know this.

I don't want to insult anybody here.

Now, um, I only got three minutes here, so not all my thoughts.

I was an always dems previously to last summer, DNC convention.

A lot of disappointments with DNC.

The last candidate I donated to was now Maryland Senator Angelo Alsa Brooks.

Last one I donated to.

I never let anybody down.

I always took Democrats' volunteer calls on the phone.

I typically gave them um some information and then donated whatever I could donate.

Now, I was uh his Majesty President Donald John Trump.

I was quite surprised with the administration's aggressive methods.

I will not discuss my thoughts, not enough time here, but you have my statement.

Regarding Elon Musk, I believe in full employment.

It's an economics term.

I believe in commensurate full employment, economic term.

Rockwell Renter Group, Chris, very respectable gentleman, along with his um friend uh uh the other one, and then he's got uh uh G.I.

Jane metaphor, I don't want to get on her bad side.

They're very eloquent, tabulous.

I have a lot of respect for Rockville um renter group, Chris.

I keep messing on his name, Chris Rock.

He doesn't really care about my um fair housing discrimination, calling me yo, Chris Rock.

Okay, he doesn't really care about that.

But he's very focused.

I have a lot of respect for him.

Let's move on.

I'm not gonna discuss him and his group anymore.

I've given them very good ideas for better rent stabilization.

Now, I do want to tell Chris uh Rockville Renter Group, Chris.

Have you heard of Malcolm X?

You do you all and outside, you all did not want to talk to me about militant black nationalism.

I have respect for Malcolm X.

He should get a statue right next to MLK.

MLK should not stand there alone on the national mall.

We need people like Malcolm X there, uh, just to tell that whole civil rights story.

Now, last week was October 7th.

I want to wish uh Bibi Um Netanyahu a very happy birthday.

His birthday is tomorrow.

Thank you.

B Netanyahu, happy birthday.

Thank you.

Next, we welcome Kate Gold.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Um my name is Kate Gould, and I live in King Farm in the city of Rockville, and I'm here to comment on the proposed Farmstead Master Plan.

Uh, again, thank you for all the hard work that you guys, you all have put in, as well as the consultants and recreation department and the staff.

Um clearly it's taken a lot of work and it deserves a lot of work.

Um, the many listening sessions gave many opportunities to consider a lot of different options.

Sorry, I have a little bit of fall allergy going on.

But um what was presented to the public, and I think this echoes a little bit of what a couple of other speakers have said before me.

Um in my opinion, might have benefited from some more filtering.

Um if you knew that a large entertainment venue also required removing a lot of the green space in a park that you love and regularly enjoy, walking your dog in, or having events at the uh farmstead picnic shelter.

You might not have put your sticker on that one, but it wasn't clear.

Um so I think it's it's something to keep in mind.

Um, and to revisit.

And I think as I as I said in um a written statement, it's not too late to apply some filters.

Something that I felt was missing, um, and I'm not an historic district specialist by any means, but it felt to me like there needed to be more input earlier on in the process from the historic district commission.

Clearly from the many comments that I know I've received, and I believe you've received the exits, entrances, internal pathways or roads needed to be considered probably upfront as part of what was presented to the public, even at those filtering and listening sessions.

Because again, you would vote differently if you knew that voting for the a particular use of the space would come at a certain cost.

The farmstead is actually pretty small.

And the green space also came out in those listening sessions as being extremely important to the public.

There's not that much of it left in the farmstead.

So I challenge you and I hope that you will continue to be creative and to use your creative staff to think of other ways to address these issues.

Thank you very much.

Welcome, Margaret Magner.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Margaret Magner, and I live in Rockville.

Rockville residents don't want Kings making decisions about the King Farm Farmstead.

So I call on you, Madam Mayor, Council members, and city manager.

Please follow the law.

If this master plan for King Farm Farmstead is a master plan, then Maryland law requires a public hearing, which has not been held.

An adequate public notice for comment on the specific document that you'll vote on.

If this is not a master plan and adopting it or amending it in future does not require a vote of the mayor and council, then please call it what it is and respect residents enough to stop confusing them.

Second, your claim that the project is all about preservation conflicts with the facts.

From what I could review since publication, there's very little mention and no meat to preservation approach or success factors in this plan.

Also, the city of Rockville's historic district commission members voted unanimously at their meeting last Thursday night to send you a letter expressing their surprise and dismay at the lack of involvement of their lack of involvement in this plan.

Kings believe that their knowledge is sufficient and they don't need to seek advice from knowledgeable specialist resources around them.

Please take Rockville's community identity and heritage tourism potential seriously enough to partner with the excellent local preservation resources that you have access to.

Respect residents enough not to tout this as a project driven by preservation when you haven't even involved the HDC in a meaningful way.

People want to preserve existing green spaces, not pave paradise to put up three parking lots, especially when the same bus rapid rapid transit and subway lines that were the reason you gave developers a green light to build in Rockville Town Center without providing any parking.

Run right up 355 past King Farm at their next stop.

So in summary, no king decisions about the King Farm Farmstead.

Respect residents by being clear about what this is, and if it's a master plan, please follow the law.

Don't govern concerning Rockville shared built heritage without meaningful work and consultation with Rockville's preservation specialists.

And don't give Rockville residents more plastic in their lives and less green.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I believe is anyone else in person who would like to speak.

Okay.

We have a virtual speaker, Paul Scott.

Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council.

Am I uh online?

Can you all hear me?

We can hear you.

Thank you.

Um thank you for um uh allowing me to speak.

I'm on travel on uh the West Coast.

Again, last time I came before you all, I I did uh explain to you all and provide some background on King Farm community, the historic uh nature of King Farm community, how large the community is, and I um um want to um uh just come before you and to again express the concern that we have with regards to some of the recommendations regarding the farmstead.

First of all, um, with regards to C1, which is the proposal or the concept that would have parking between Grand Champion and Ridgemont, strongly opposed to that.

And uh, we have had some conversations with the city staff and various council members over the period, and just want to reiterate the concern that uh we do not want any hard surface parking, uh vehicular parking uh in that area that would impact the community garden.

That that garden is is is a treasure uh to the community and to the city of Rockville.

Uh secondly, no vehicular access from Grand Champion and or uh Ridgemont Avenue.

That's also something that the community is strongly opposed to.

Um the other thing that we are encouraging options, and last uh time we were before you, I was really encouraged to hear Councilman Um Barry Jackson talk about alternative and thinking out of the box, such as encouraging walking, rolling, and other type of uh transportation um like hearing about bicycling.

Love hearing what Jake was talking about, and and that's something that Rockville, the city of Rockville has been pushing, so we strongly do encourage that.

Um additionally, uh, with regards to um uh let's see um parking.

Um well uh finally I just want to say that we want to encourage um whatever final recommendations should be in the nature of the his of the agricultural history of the farm in the report that the recreation parks and the consultant has presented to you.

It does go into the history of the farmstead, and uh having a dense activity would be going away from that, would be going away from the character.

Uh it's interesting.

I know there's a there's some concerns regarding whether or not we're in compliance uh with um the historic district uh commission and allowing them to also be able to opine and and and comment uh on this process.

I in finality and closing, I just want to say we want to encourage a green space, uh, again, being in concept with the agricultural nature and with regards to the parking impact, recognizing that uh close to 15% of the city of Rockville residents actually live in King Farms, so that should lessen the need to have additional parking in that area, especially uh the fact that most of the um a large proportion of the folks will be from the King Farm area.

Uh thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

That exhausts the list of those who requested to speak in person as well as virtually.

We have received many written comments, uh which we have uh had uh all had access to okay.

We'll now move on to agenda item 11A, which focuses on the King Farm Farmstead plan.

Welcome, Tara Stewart, as well as Mike Stover from Design Collective.

Mr.

Mahilek, is anyone you would like anything you'd like to say leading into this plan as they set up?

Not at this time, Mayor thank you.

All right.

Um mayor and council.

Um I am Tara Stewart, director of recreation and parks, and we are excited to be back today to talk with you and provide updates regarding the King Farm uh Farmstead Master Plan, um, and to request the mayor and council's adoption of the plan.

All right, so tonight we will review the mayor and council's direction from our September 29th work session.

We'll review parking options for the park.

We'll also review updated project phasing and cost estimates, and finally request the mayor and council's adoption of the King Farm Farmstead Master Plan.

So during our last work session, the mayor and council directed staff to explore additional options for parking, considering accessibility as well as minimizing impact to the community gardens and residents living closest to the farmstead.

To revisit the project's phasing, prioritizing implementation for structures with existing city investment and utilizing multiple phases over several years.

And to update our cost estimates to include construction, escalation design, and contingencies to reflect a more comprehensive project cost.

We'll start with a review of the parking options, and now I'll turn the presentation over to our consultant Mike Stover from Design Collective.

Oh, thank you.

This is option one.

This was previously presented at the last meeting that we had with you.

Here we have at C1 a parking space or parking lot with uh that will be paved with 44 spaces.

Uh this is next to the community garden as has been discussed.

And then event parking would be on D1, and that would maintain the lawn as it is, but be structured so that the parking could be held there for events on the weekends.

Thank you.

In response to the feedback we got from the last meeting, we've come up with two more options.

And in option two, we recognize that the community does not want the parking lot backed by the community gardens.

And we've addressed it by having parking a permanent parking lot located in the lawn below the dairy barns at C2.

And then the event parking would then be in the remaining portion of a D2 in the lawn, and that would maintain the grass and that area that could so it could be used for events.

I think in the future it could also be explored that those two switch spaces that that and on the orientation of C2 could be reconsidered if other configurations are better for the community.

And I'll go to option three, and then I'll describe the things that are similar between all three options.

In option three, we rely we're relying on parking at uh Maddie, and it's about a five-minute walk from Maddie to the site.

We would still have handicap parking and some drop-off opportunities in this option.

And we have the existing parking at at F of 47 spaces, and then we would also rely on temporary parking in the G locations.

I think right now it's a two-hour limitation, and that would work for a lot of the functions in the dairy barns for classes and events or or not events, but smaller practices and things like that.

And then, oh, let me talk about uh I do need to go back one slide, sorry.

So uh as far as access to the site, and in option uh one, we discussed that there would be access to the parking lot, obviously from Grand Champion.

And option two, the primary uh access would be from Frederick Road, and it would be both the parking lot F as well as to C2.

The access from the north is just for people to drop people off and also for handicapped parking access.

There would not be any access to the parking lots from that direction.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that relying on people coming from 355 and then accessing those spots all the way across the site, makes people drive across the entire site.

It actually could increase the conflict in the pedestrian area.

Right now, we're showing the loops diagrammatically where they fit without us making any changes to the landscape as it is right now, but those loops could be pulled back further to create a larger pedestrian area in the middle.

Um, that's another level of design that we are not at with the landscape at this stage.

But that could be addressed along with also involving a traffic consultant and a parking consultant.

I think in the next phase would be key.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you need to have a program first before you can address the traffic and the parking.

So if the program is approved, the next stage would then be to address the the parking and the traffic and then also the landscape design in general.

Okay, yeah, I think that covers it.

So the summary of the three options that are presented.

Um the parking uh in option one is up by the community gardens, accessing by Grand Champion, um, and it creates 91 paved spaces, so that is the 47 existing spaces, and then 44 spaces up by the community garden, um, and then the temporary event grass paved parking down on the 355 side.

Option two moves the asphalt parking away from the community garden and focuses the parking for the site on the 355 side.

So that's 47 existing spaces, and then we would have 50 additional asphalt spaces, and then the grass paving spaces would be temporary parking only used for events as needed.

And then option three is relying on street parking along Ridgemont and Grand Champion and using Maddie Stepanic as overflow parking with a short walk to the site if you're participating in events or programs there.

So oh, actually, before I go back, so one point that I did want to make with the parking being located on the 355 side.

We did hear from the community that there were concerns about access, right?

They wanted to limit traffic as much as possible on the Ridgemont and Grand Champion streets.

So you know, accessing the parking from the 355 side will remove that concern or address that concern.

We also would propose that the landscaping be enhanced along the ridgont side of the parking so that it softens that landscape so it will hopefully block uh car lights from interfering with the residents across the street and also soften their view from looking outside their window.

They wouldn't just be looking at the asphalt paved lot, it would be uh landscape to soften that up a bit.

So now we're going to um talk a bit about the project's phasing.

So in our last work session, we presented three phases for project implementation to occur over a 15-year period.

However, the mayor and council expressed a desire to activate implementation sooner, prioritizing the structures in which the city has already invested funding to stabilize and or to her rehabilitate.

Specifically, it was requested that staff prioritize the dairy barns and farmhouse projects within the first phase.

With this direction, we're now recommending a two-phase implementation approach.

Phase one includes implementing the dairy barns and the farmhouse projects to occur within FY27 through FY30 at an estimated cost of 21.6 million.

Phase two includes implementing the horse barn, tenant houses, and garage improvements to occur within FY31 through 33 at an estimated cost of 7.1 million.

These estimates reflect inclusion of the design fees, escalation, construction, and the contingencies.

So this next slide provides a timeline for the project implementation and when the city should expect and plan for project design and construction costs for each phase.

We're projecting phase one design will occur during FY27 and FY28, and construction occurring later in 28 through FY30.

For phase two, we're projecting design will occur during FY31 through 32 and starting construction late 32 into 33.

So here you'll find a more detailed breakdown of the estimated costs for both phases.

So through this process, um there was not a determined or recommended use just yet for those silos, but we recognize with the type of construction that would be taking place with the dairy barns that we would need to put in protective measures to make sure that the silos were stabilized during that process.

So there is additional funding included in the estimate for that.

Okay.

So at this time, we're happy to answer any questions that the mayor and council may have, and to recommend that the body adopt the King Farm Farm Stand Master Plan.

We have provided some recommended language, but whenever you all are ready, we can tackle that.

Thank you very much.

Can you go back to the phasing slide just so we have that handy?

Um and I wanted to take a step back to say thank you.

I know this has been a long labor of love, uh, and we really appreciate all the work of recreation and parks and other players who helped because I know it was all hands-on deck for this, and there were a lot of filtering sessions and meetings in all parts of the city uh to really come to recommendations for the mayor and council.

So thank you for that work.

Thank you.

Um, if you could uh just give us a sense of uh, and this may be Mr.

Mahalick as well.

Uh, what would be the potential process from here?

Because I know a lot of residents have written and want to know is this a true master plan, uh, what the process would be, how HDC would be involved.

Can you share some insight on that, please?

Well, I'll try to be tight in the answer, Mayor.

The adoption of tonight is really a facility use master plan.

I think that would be a better description of this.

Um, if council decides to move forward, then we would begin design, both of a site plan, landscape plan, access points into and out of the site, and probably most importantly, architectural plans for all the buildings that we're going to be reviewing.

The next steps in the process also include reviews by a couple of our review bodies.

The plan commission has to review this plan, the site plan, landscaping plan, et cetera, which is a state mandated requirement for sufficiency.

Um, that will include the opportunity for people to comment at that phase.

And also the HDC will also be very um important in the review.

Um, anytime we touch any building in this project at all, it does require their review and recommendation on any modifications to those buildings.

In addition to that, um, we would take this um timeline and cost and put that into your capital improvements plan.

As we talked about earlier tonight, we're working on the budget right now.

I know a couple of you have said how did this project work the the budget and the costs relative to other capital projects?

If and when we receive um direction tonight, we'll know what those costs are.

We share the CIP and look for direction from the council on that.

I can go into more detail if you'd like.

Does anyone have any overarching questions on that process before we get into the details?

Culture Van Crack.

So um I just want to clarify, uh and I said the manager, you're here.

We have people from the city attorney's office.

There's been some discussion with regard to the legality with regard to what we're doing here with a master plan compared to other um items such as the town center master plan.

Can you guys clarify exactly the legality of what we're doing here in the process?

Sure, I'm happy to do that.

So a public hearing is actually mandated either in state statute or local ordinance.

It's very clear when we have to have a public hearing.

Public hearings in the city of Rockville include the budget, it includes rezonings, which you guys are familiar with, and it would include master plans, but only those master plans that result in an amendment to the comprehensive plan.

The King Farm Farm set is not an amendment to the comprehensive plan, therefore a public hearing is not needed for this.

Having said that, it's important for me to note that we've had at least a dozen opportunities for people to provide comments, whether it's the visiting session, filtering sessions, these meetings tonight, we've heard comments.

So we do feel that the public engagement process to date has been robust, arguably the most robust we've ever had in the city's history, certainly for this project, and as I described earlier in the response to the mayor's questions, there's other opportunities for engagement moving forward.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And just to also clarify, the Redgate plan uh went through a similar process with community feedback online and in virtual, in person.

Uh, did that have a public hearing?

Before my time, I don't know.

Sorry.

Yeah.

I can I can respond back.

I think Tara's uh I don't believe that they did have uh a public hearing for that one for the Red Gate plan.

Okay, thank you.

And I I just wanted to note that I I greatly appreciate the feedback of everyone has given every stage of this project.

Um this is not the final bite at the apple.

There's gonna be many times because this has to go through budget, this has to go through the two other planning bodies.

So I just I wanted to just clarify some of that, uh, and I appreciate you all uh sharing that, Miss Stewart and Mr.

Mahalick.

Okay.

Um just do you have any other questions that I see hand up?

I mean, no overarching questions.

Um the other thing is the design process is going to be extensive and usually results in changes.

Can you share the design process normally involves community feedback as well?

Can you speak to that?

Yeah, our goal is to really continue our robust presence on the city's website for this project.

A lot of eyes on this, and we want that.

Our goal is to keep the engaged rock fill presence in a big way.

And any time we go through the process and submit plans, et cetera, particularly before we send them to the plan commission and to the HDC, we'll make sure though a description of that is on the city's website, and we'll receive comments through that portal.

Okay, thank you.

Uh with that said, I do I do I would like to get a better understanding from the HDC, given that we're approving some uh at least concepts for plans, uh, and maybe you have that feedback, but uh specific to uh the addition, which changes the exterior uh and items related to the horse barn, and then there's other things that are uh um the silos as well as potential educational concepts of how we could weave in the historic um the the history of this project.

So, but it but specific to if we're approving a plan that um has external changes to it, um, how does that interplay with the feedback of the HDC?

Have you received any specific comments about those?

Yeah, so let me take a stab at it.

So the HDC's really specific involvement is when we actually touch the buildings, right?

If I were in the HDC, I'd ask a lot of very specific questions, and we do expect that from them on how does the addition to the dairy barns by way of example impact the um historical integrity of the building itself or the horse barn itself.

We do not have any architectural plans at all for this project other than concept plans, right?

When we have those architectural plans, we'll be going before the HDC, absolutely get their their input, and there's certain specific standards that they have to review before providing um a recommendation to the city council.

So right now, all we really have is conceptual plans.

Um we have heard from the HDC that they want to be engaged.

We did invite all of them to attend our engagement sessions.

We're the fortunate recipient of comments from those guys individually when they attended the meetings, we're happy for that.

But we'll have to go back several more times.

Okay.

Thank you.

I I will just say um it would be helpful.

This is speaking for me, uh, to be able to understand their thinking on the conceptual before we spend money on going too far down a design.

Thank you.

All right, so colleagues, we have two major this well, three major decisions as to you know, how do we want to deal with approving tonight or not?

Uh the and uh potential community engagement part uh and HDC.

Uh, then we have uh project phasing and timeline as well as the parking discussion.

So I just want to see if my colleagues have strong opinions about either.

Uh Councilman Valerie So if I can back it up just very quickly, because I had a question about this slide.

Sure.

Um, that we're looking at.

Um, can you explain a little bit about or just explain uh how 1.2 million for the phase one design includes design fees?

What else does that include?

It includes the design fees and a small contingency uh if there were changes in that process.

Okay, so I guess then my question is what I'm presuming a 20% contingency on that or for design.

I want to say we used 8% in contingency for the design.

Okay, because the the phrasing of this, I was just trying to get an overall look at it.

It was kind of confusing to me.

So I appreciate that clarification.

That was really why I raised my hand, Madam Mayor.

Okay, thank you.

Well, let's stay on the phasing uh process, if that's okay.

Um, I'll I'll go and then uh see councilman I think Councilmember Jackson is gonna be.

Councilmember Jackson and then Councilman Van Greg.

Okay.

All right.

So uh generally speaking, the there's a large piece up front with 20 million.

I know I spoke to city manager and I'm saying how do we how could we do that in one phase given all the other projects and CIP we have in the city?

I was um I appreciate you moving some of the items forward, but I didn't intend to say remove three phases.

That's my personal opinion.

I think that um it may be financially necessary to break that out into three, but I would like to hear feedback from you all as experts who are looking at the budget and our other CIPs, um, what that would look like for you.

So no, it's interesting.

When you when you all suggested our last work session, moving the dairy barns up to the first phase, we're like, okay, because you're right, Mayor.

We actually recommended three phases to start.

And when you all said again, move the dairy barns up, it's it increased the cost significantly, right?

But there are certain elements of the plan that has support all the activities in the dairy barns, and that's why the cost goes up significantly.

And then when you look at the back phase of it, the phase two, and I say this very cautiously, only 6.7 million dollars.

But to us, it didn't make sense for us to break that up into two additional phases.

A couple different reasons.

One, it takes us that much longer to build out those phases, because if we do design, which we should, then construction, then more design and the construction.

If we go that through that three times, then you're probably looking at a completion of this well into the the 2030s.

So that's why we recommended this plan.

Could you go back to three phases?

Absolutely, you could, but please keep in mind it's going to take longer.

And unless something changes that hasn't changed over the last number of decades, the costs are going to increase.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh Councilmember Jackson, then Councilman Van Crack.

Uh thank you.

So I want to back up for a second um and before I discuss this the phasing, which to me is uh fairly fairly simple.

But just to remind people, I I I I sound like a broken record up here, but uh this has been 30 years in the making.

I mean, uh it didn't just start with us having conversations and uh doing this report and uh having deliberations on this council.

Um it started uh back around 2000 or earlier when the developer actually gave the the the parcel of land to um to the city and there have been by my count at least seven and and probably more uh council sessions, uh task forces, uh uh consultants' reports, and other um uh various proposals of uses of the farmstead.

And I know that some people have said that what we're doing now is not the same, and they're right, because I think what we're doing now, and this is a uh um a testament to uh your approach, uh city manager and and uh uh director, is realistic.

We're really taking uh uses of the farmstead uh and trying to fit them with real uses of the city and needs of the city.

And we're we're making it realistic and something that would be used by all residents uh of Rockville.

And so I just uh I want to point that out uh that this is a really long process, and it's not something that just started um uh overnight or even uh uh the last year.

And so that readers can engagement.

And the engagement has been, and I think uh uh my colleague uh colleagues have uh said it, and the city manager said it has been stellar.

I mean, we have gone around the city and talked to people.

We have engaged them online, we've done surveys, uh, we've had uh council debates, and I really think that every idea that we proposed has been kind of filtered and taken down and is in this report.

And even after uh our last uh council session, I know that I went and read the report, and I was like, oh, that's that's in there.

That's in the I that was my idea, that was her idea.

I mean, so I I think that you know it's been a really great process, and we're not done, and I know that I have some issues with uh the report and some things that I will propose changing.

But I think that we would be doing a dissurface, not to say that this it's been a good process and really has been inclusive of the whole city of Rockville, which is uh really a testament uh to uh the city's uh leadership.

That said, we we have to balance this out.

I mean, there are city needs, there's uh residents of Rockville needs and keen farm community uh needs um that all those uh need to uh be kept in mind.

Um and we have a lot to get through, and I know that I don't want to take up too much time, but um I don't know how my colleagues feel, but I for one would like to kind of provide guidance, uh, make the some decisions and have um staff come back to me uh or us with a clear plan which can be um you know uh debated uh looked at uh both by the council and by the uh uh residents as well.

That said, and uh I'd want to acknowledge the work that has gone into giving us these proposals and options and moving the process along very successfully.

Um I I I want like to recognize um all the work that Tara Stewart has has done uh in particular.

Um she really put um into this project her heart and soul, and uh really, really uh appreciate it has not gone unnoticed um or unappreciated.

Now we're talking about uh the phasing, and I had many conversations uh with um the city manager and others, and I really like the the where we ended up with the uh farmstead uh house and the dairy barns going first and I like two phases.

So that's a long way of saying that yes, I like the the current report and the phasing uh in there.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you, Councilman Van Grack.

Thank you.

Um I know this may seem like a broken record, but I think it's important to say um echoing to what my colleagues have said, the public engagement with regard to this process might be the single best public engagement that the city as Rockville has put forward.

Not only was there a dedicated and specific decision to make in-person public engagements throughout the city, there was the decision to make virtual access as well.

Not only did the city go forward and reach out to in-person and virtual with specific feedback forms, but there was open questionnaires that went out to city residents throughout the city on multiple different stages.

There was no part of this process that I know that the city staff didn't reach out to the community.

So I do want to thank you and let you know that I've seen it, and I think you've heard it from those here on the Dais that the degree to which you have gone forward and not only asked the residents what they prefer, how they like to see it, but reported back to us.

It wasn't just something that was kept behind the scenes in the different work sessions that you provided information to us.

You told us where the dots were placed.

We've now had multiple agenda briefings that were in the public that specifically communicated to us the data that the city received, and that's invaluable because not only does it tell us what's going on, but it showed the public what other members of the public who you have engaged had put forward.

So I I just have to commend you, Ms.

Stewart and your whole department, sort of the way to which you have gone about this engagement.

It's truly spectacular.

And I know I uh I know there's been some discussion with regard to the um historic district commission.

I know certain members were specifically invited because I saw certain members at the in-person meetings, um, and to the degree to which you've gone through the process to let people know it's tremendous.

Um now I with regard to the phasing, um I do agree with what we've been put forward.

I know we gave direction, I think this is the phasing that's gonna get the most use to the community and the use that you've provided to us that the community wanted to see and needed earlier rather than later.

Um the only thing that I'd note, and I think we will it'll probably get to a discussion a little bit later, is as part of the construction.

I know we've heard from members of the public with regard to parking issues, with regard to the degree of the historic nature.

Um I would specifically, and I'm gonna, you know, I think when we get to more details, um, suggest a little bit of a de scaling of what would be part of the construction um in that second part of phase one.

I think with regard to the extreme expense that we're looking at, as well as the community talking about retaining the historic nature of the buildings, we might want to consider not having the addition.

I know we talked about the addition that connects the two dairy barns.

I think that could be reducing the cost to the city and that initial phasing, potentially allow it to be less impactful to our budget, and also address some of the concerns that the public's come to us with this revised um plan that's been put forward in September and October.

Thank you, Councilmember Larry.

Okay.

Um not to uh follow my uh colleague, Councilmember Jackson's uh lead, but I want to take it back a step.

Um and it does relate to community engagement.

Um I think I said um as much in our last session that this was unprecedented in a way that um I will give my own specific neighborhood feedback to have a session on this in Twinbrook for a project occurring in as far away as possible uh to the north of us, I think it meant a lot um to the neighborhood, and it it signaled an intentionality of being as uh all-encompassing and and welcoming as possible.

I think it meant a lot to the neighborhood, and it signaled an intentionality of being as uh all encompassing and welcoming as possible.

So to that end, um I think that we need to continue to look at this project as a city project and not as a neighborhood project.

And so I I'd love to put forward to my colleagues and Madam Mayor, however, we maybe want to uh weigh in on this.

Um I think that this project needs to be branded as a city project.

So and um as somebody who who did some research into the history of this particular plot of land, the King family was not the only one that owned this land over time.

So uh keeping that in mind, I would love to call this something like the Rockville Farmstead Center or complex.

I don't know what makes the most sense, but I think that that sort of intentional naming of it will go a long way toward uh people viewing this as it is correctly a city project for the entire city.

Um it is located in the King Farm neighborhood, and I don't want to negate that, but this is not just the King Farm farmstead.

This is uh a farm land with with much more uh history and previous owners.

Um as some of you know, I love research and I love being a research nerd, and I am actually uh a history nerd as well, uh, probably shocking to some folks, but um I keep hearing a lot about preservation and the historic nature um of this particular uh property, and I hear very little about historical placemaking, educational opportunities, and I really have to sit back and question why is this the case?

Why is the case that another uh uh unincorporated city has a museum about the other end of this particular farm complex, and we don't even have a city museum.

Um I think that there's actually a lot of positive community inclusive ideas out there, but yet all I've heard, and I've read every single email, and I've talked to a bunch of people, is preserve the building, preserve the building.

History has to come alive and capture every uh nook and cranny, both uh good and bad.

And I I'm not hearing that.

I'm hearing a lot of opposition and why things shouldn't happen, and I think that's the nature of what we have here is that we tend to hear um the negative and maybe not the positive, um as a lot of things happen that way, but I'd like to hear things like having a city museum on site that could capture that that part of the the now lost agricultural uh heritage of uh of the the farmstead.

Sorry, I just my thing went out.

Maybe historical reenactments of farm life.

I thought a lot about Colonial Williamsburg.

Not that we have to be that expansive, but you know, there are um ways to bring history to life, but I'm not hearing that.

Um, and so I I well, I'm a little disappointed, uh, frankly, if I can just share that with everybody.

Um I also think that and and and whether or not this is intentional or not, the numbers here are slightly misleading because they don't actually share the full cost so far of what the city has actually put into these sites.

And I I did ask um, and I really thank uh Mr.

City Manager for facilitating um the answers to some of my questions.

The city has already spent 3.2 million on the dairy barns.

So going first with the dairy barns makes sense to me because the city has already invested that much.

Um and it's it's not as significant.

Only 55,000 has been spent, and only on structural stabilization of the horse barn.

And the 2014 report has repeated what I think a lot of people were concerned with, that there are a lot of uh structural issues and the 2014 report actually said that perhaps the demolition of that building alone may be um uh a better choice.

I wanted to get a sense of just broadly what we're looking at at the end of the day of the costs, because that is why we're all here to make tough decisions that maybe some folks like, some folks don't.

Um for me, the toughest decision is being a good steward of um, you know, the the community's um uh tax money, uh however we want to phrase it.

And it does concern me that we would not be more focused on the um just the entity that has received the most money as of this point.

So for me, I I would like to have seen kind of more of a continuum here of like, okay, phase one, um, including the dairy barns, so this much has been invested so far, and this would be in addition to what the city has already spent, that then it would be this much for design and this much for construction.

Um, because I think this is significant.

Um, and the phasing does concern me because I still, and I know that there's a lot of of factors at play here, but I really need to see a clear financial path um laid out to show how two phases would even be possible, or do we need to go back to three phases?

And I know that there's a lot of uh external factors, you know, that would impact perhaps um the financial investment.

Um, but since we are accountable to the community, I want to be able to tell the community this is how we could get to this place of affordability.

And I understand that I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot, and uh Mr.

City Manager um did provide uh quite a bit of uh feedback um and answer some of my questions, but that would be for me to in order to decide two or three on the phasing.

I need to see kind of how this fits into our existing CIPs, because we're doing a lot more than just the farmstead um and whether or not we can bear it with all the economic uncertainty.

Thank you, Councilmember Fulton.

I thought there was a line.

Um so did all the great stuff on engagement.

I agree, it's been wonderful.

Thank you for all the hard work on it.

I also think it was important clarification uh earlier.

Thank you, Madame Mayor, for asking that this is not the last bite at the Apple on this.

Um you gotta you gotta adopt a concept to get to the point where you get feedback on that.

So I thought that was really helpful.

Uh with that in mind to answer the question on phasing.

Um my recollection is like to your point, we you brought back to us what exactly what we asked for last week.

Um, so I'm in favor of what we asked for last week.

Um I will say though, um, I tend to agree because all things are um connected, the phasing, the parking, the cost.

Um, in order to be thoughtful about how to manage the finances and possibly mitigate the need for parking.

I'm open to backing off of the addition on the dairy barns as well, seeing what kind of difference that would make.

Um also the historic preservation concerns about that addition as well.

Um, I think that's it for now.

Thank you, Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thanks, staff.

I'll keep it brief.

Uh I have in the past in very public ways uh voice when I've kind of gotten out ahead of myself and have come back to course correct based on new information.

Uh to that end, I'll associate myself with colleagues.

I mean, comments of my colleague, Councilmember Fulton, uh, to just um in the context of aforementioned uncertain economic headwinds uh to just kind of slow things down.

Uh the you already mentioned its implication for the parking, and I think I can just answer that question pretty quickly.

I think it'd be it's easier to uh scale up parking in the future as a need or may or may not arise than to pay something and then you know try to go backwards.

So I think um in the context of what was articulated, I will um eat whatever e crow on this one and uh and uh uh voice support for slowed approach.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw.

I also want to echo my colleagues and commend staff, uh Director Stewart and team.

You did an excellent job.

Um, and um yeah, I I felt as if the um community engagement was a model for future projects.

Um, and with that being said, uh, I also think there's some more opportunities to apply more of an equity lens.

Um, because this was such an extensive uh community engagement effort, I do think that there are a lot of opportunities around looking at equity, like maybe there were some folks missed or looking at disaggregating data or having more data, and and y'all did a great job with data, but there I think there were some um opportunities just to bring that data into the equity analysis or into the equity impact statement that you had for today.

Um so part of that equity statement would um or part of that analysis would be driven by by that data.

So I think there are some opportunities there.

Um I also think that you know this is a long ongoing project.

I agree with my colleagues in slowing this down a bit, um, just around some of the economic uncertainties, but um and um around that, also being able to incorporate the equity impact um analysis throughout to this project.

I know we were doing it in the beginning, but just like throughout this project.

I know there are some entrepreneur opportunities or economic opportunities, there's job creation opportunities with this project and being able to apply an equity analysis to that child care as well.

I think there are some opportunities to apply an equity analysis there to fully really commit ourselves to to the equity that we share that we are doing in this project.

But overall, excellent job.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I wanted to uh add to some of the statements I made early and build on the comments of my colleagues.

Um again, thank you.

Uh I had a question for you, given some of the other projects I've seen where um there was a decision to design all at once.

Um, and the reason why it's happened in some some projects uh was because it allows you the ability to apply for grants and things that sort.

So if you have design, there's something that you can apply for grants on.

So I I was just curious if there was any thought about that approach that you all have taken in the past of design all at once, but phase out uh so that you you could have access to other funding sources.

Mayor if it's okay, I'll take a stab and then see if Tara has anything to add.

I mean, this is a big project.

Um it's 30 million dollars at its smallest piece, including the previous investment.

Um so we just didn't think it made sense to try to design the whole thing in one shot.

Could you do it?

Absolutely, you could do it.

We also heard from the council over the past several months to let's get going on activating some of these uses sooner rather than later, the dairy barns, the uh daycare component.

So if we design the whole thing, we're probably talking about a three-year process if others disagree with me.

I think but I think that's the case.

Um, regarding the the funding, you can absolutely apply for funding for grant opportunities based on one phase and another phase.

In fact, sometimes it's there's some um advantages to doing it in phases can apply for a grant, receive it on phase one, wait a few years, apply for the same grant opportunity for phase two.

So we just saw it trying to do design all in one shot outside of the master plan would take up a lot of time, a lot of cost, and delay activation.

That's helpful context.

And just to clarify, for Redgate, you're doing design all at once.

Um I know that was that that's my understanding.

There was some internal debate about that.

But it's it's so it's actually a pretty similar process.

I'm watching to make sure I get this right because I wasn't here for a lot of it, but same thing, master plan for the whole park, but phasing is based on grants, actually.

We have we have grant funding that's ready to be accepted should the council decide to do that, but the more detailed design is based on the grant proceeds we expect to get, but that's only going to be about 40% of the whole park.

So the design is already underway, yes, and it is my understanding was looking at the whole park, but that you're phasing in the work.

I disagree.

Yeah, the master plan is for the whole park.

The design is just for the first phase, the detailed design.

I can we clarify that go ahead.

No good evening and thank you.

The design is going to take some aspects to 30% and then kind of hold.

And then other aspects or amenities of the park and the within the master plan will be designed full to the full 100% and permitting.

And there are a few reasons for that.

One is exactly as the city manager said, which is funding, but it's also so that permits don't get out ahead of themselves and then they run out and need to be extended or need to be changed due to changes in policy and um and and rules and regulations.

So some of it will we will uh infrastructure, utilities, may you know, we don't want uh to uh excavate and for you know once and then have to go in another section and interrupt what we've done.

So we will be doing that comprehensively, but then some of the amenities will kind of have a pause on them based on the the funding and uh permitting.

Thank you.

Yeah, so it's phased implementation for sure.

Phased information, yes, but also design.

Design will take it at some um areas will be taken to 30 percent and then a hold even on the detailed design.

Okay, thank you.

Um and I just wanted to also acknowledge that staff has done really nice jobs on community outreach on this project, but I also want to acknowledge because there was some really good projects done on the Redgate plan, the EV plan, as well as the climate action plan, similar virtual in-person all over the city.

So I I if other departments are listening, I just wanted to make sure to acknowledge their work as well.

Um the other piece I wanted to ask about is uh the as I noted before the the 20 million in the context of economic uncertainty and the headwinds, and then also we have we have other major projects where we have the bonding on the pool.

Uh we have things like infrastructure to make the city running, which we need, you know.

I know that we have enterprise pieces on that uh that are that are actively ongoing.

We have sidewalk work that we're doing, streets, uh there are other major CIP projects.

So I for me I have to see this in the context of how we get this paid for.

Uh I have wishful thinking, and I wish I had a 3D printer, but I don't for for this kind of thing.

And so I do want to be practical.

Uh and with that said, for me, I I kind of like and uh maybe there's a phase one and A and phase one B.

Uh, but I would like to see um how we can bring some of the cost down so it's actually more that we can get started.

Um that's that's something that I um think would be helpful.

How do we get that done?

I do think that uh the addition costs might be too much to bite right now.

Um so I'm willing to uh forego that.

Um that maybe be a future LBI project.

I don't know.

Maybe there's another funding source that we can get that in the future.

We've done that in other buildings.

Um the other thing for me is we don't know how much parking we'll need, and we're not activating the whole site for several years, and so I wouldn't build all the parking in up front.

I know some site work needs to happen.

Um, I'd be willing to also look at and within that phase one A and B, it's you know, dairy barns versus the farmhouse and you all deciding which one of those goes first.

Um but I do want to make sure that we um can get all of this work done with the necessary infrastructure projects we have going on throughout the city uh without putting ourselves in a financial bind.

That's where my spirit comes from.

But I do want to say I want to get started on something, a piece of it, um, sooner than later.

Uh and so I'm I'm willing to take this and buy sizes.

Thank you.

Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, um, Mayor.

Uh I just wanted to um uh get back to the um addition and just uh join my colleagues, uh council member McGrath, Councilman Fulton, Miles, and now the the mayor, in saying that uh I think that we can do uh the phasing uh without being uh doing the addition, uh both for the reason that it's physical specifically um uh complicated to do the addition and have that additional money, uh but I don't think that we really need it to have good use of the farmstead and the fact that it scales it to make it uh more uh amenable to uh the uh uh community and an end, but it's an important end.

I mean, I think that it uh saves uh that iconic uh look um of uh the farmstead and the dairy barns that uh so many people have alluded to already.

So for those reasons, uh I'm actually uh in favor of scrapping the uh addition.

I just wanted to be on the record uh as saying that.

Now I agree with the mayor, and so I just want to ask this question.

I asked it before, and uh I think the answer was yes, but again, with the additional cost, and that is um when we're talking about the activation.

Is it possible to activate one dairy barn without the whole structure?

So could you do that?

I know see I I I I noticed you're smiling, and I th I I think I think I know the answer, but I just want to hear it uh from from you.

So yes, it is possible to uh activate um one of the dairy barns uh in like a first sort of phase and then do the second.

However, we would not recommend that.

I mean, um the as Jeff alluded to earlier, um, when you push out uh projects, the cost continues to rise.

So um we might in the end end up paying more for the dairy barns than what we originally thought we would.

Um so that would be our recommendation to do them comprehensively um just to help and be conservative on the cost.

Can you uh confirm, Mr.

City Manager, and thank you, Ms.

Stewart.

Um can you get this done without breaking them out without a tax increase?

Oh, I'm very confident of that.

Okay.

Yeah.

I I will say if it's okay, Mayor, partially in answer to councilmember Jackson's idea.

I can now count to four about knowing not doing the addition.

So that saves you guys about two million dollars.

And that would allow you then to do both wings or both phases of the dairy barn without having that two million dollar cost to put the two together.

Hopefully that makes sense.

And do you think that you would do the dairy barn and the farmhouse at the same time, or would you recommend splitting those up?

I wouldn't recommend splitting them up, and it's really honestly based on the direction we received from council a little while ago.

Daycare is a high priority.

Um we can serve up to 30 additional children by activating the farmhouses and daycare.

And then the dairy barns are the areas where we can have the most um programmatic activities there.

So I wouldn't recommend breaking them up.

Right.

I I could have been that you might have do daycare first.

Um and you to my understanding and the feedback that you've given to us through the questions I've asked, is that that is cost recovery and will eventually pay for itself.

Right.

Mostly.

Mostly.

Yes, ma'am.

Yep.

Mostly.

All right.

Well, I'll look forward to for me, uh this is gonna have to show me the numbers budget wise and how we can do this within our means uh without not without not without threatening our triple A bond rating and debt and you know, potentially putting us in the bind financially.

So Mayor, could I make a suggestion, but I don't want to overstep um because I can't quite count to four on the phasing just yet.

I heard multiple people say two phases, but with some caveats.

The caveats were to not do um the addition.

Understood that that's crystal clear.

What I might suggest is that we um show the master plan as having the two phases, then we put the and and I can't put it into the CIP until I know what the phases are because there's a cost associated with it, and we plug it in.

And that somewhat to council member Valeri's um points, which were very well taken.

You guys need to see it all, right?

And once you get to CIP, and remember it's it's a long-range CIP, then the five-year CIP, and then the one year CIP.

Until it's that one year, we just don't know.

Let's be candid.

But if you guys say to us two phases, best case scenario, take out the addition, put it in the CIP, and you reserve the right to maybe modify and break this up into additional phases, that's plenty of direction to me, and I respect that because things could change.

Just a thought.

Thank you.

And do you have a sense of our total debt right now?

That's not interpreted.

Not off the top of my head.

I can get that correctly.

Right, because I think that we have the pool, which was already about 11 million dollars at least.

Just broadly, we've had um conversations internally about whether or not we can we can carry this over the time horizon, and we believe we can.

Thank you.

Um the other question I had related to the phasing.

If we based on the two options of parking, given the direction we go in, if we do option two versus three or versus one, how does that impact the cost here in terms of because I know we're looking at what's the cost is for phase one?

No.

We had um one of the new parking lots as part of phase one, if that's what you're asking me.

Right.

So if we go with option three, the cost is X versus option two, the cost is Y.

Because you just tell us how much we save with the options.

Do you guys have costs for parking?

Yeah.

Okay.

Phone a friend on this one.

Okay.

We're all working together.

I don't know if the the parking is broken out.

It's in the um cost estimates.

Okay.

I just I think that's helpful to understand.

It's within the phasing.

Yeah, it's within the site costs, and between option one and option two, they're basically the same amounts.

So we didn't break it out differently.

Option two and three.

And then three.

Um there's no parking on the site for three.

Yeah.

Um I don't remember what it was off, but basically within that site work, we had a number for the parking.

I don't remember what it is offhand because the part it site work also includes some other infrastructure that needs to be in there.

We'd have to get it.

But it's with it's within that 1.8 that's there now.

So that's in that potential another two million dollars.

Well, not within that.

Within that, it's within that.

So it's a portion of that.

Okay, well, for me then, just to answer the question on the phasing, and I would welcome if anyone wants to make any clarifying comments on their phasing feedback just thus far.

Um, I would remove the addition, and I would also push out parking to a future phase so that we know what the demand is, and we have some parking on site as well as Matty's to panic, but we'll we'll get more into that later.

But I just want to flag for me that my um my thoughts on the phasing.

Uh anyone else have comments on phasing.

Uh Mr.

Mehallix, did you get your clarity?

No.

Ms.

Uh, Councilmember Jackson.

Thanks, Mayor.

So I I think it goes to the parking, but also to the um uh phasing.

Um when we're talking about uh the the phasing, uh I just want to uh um make sure that the terrace or the the ramp is included in uh the the build uh in phase one uh yeah we have it as a separate line item you can see in the budget slide right now, so that Southeast Terrace is the 525 okay in there.

So it could be it is broken out separately, so we can have that included in the budget.

Councilmember Van Greg.

I mean since we're talking about phasing, can uh um I I don't know if it'd be staff or the design consultant explain why you had the parking site work as part of phase one so um uh with the dairy barns they would bring the most programming in use and um uh essentially with the addition that is bringing that multi-hall that um multi-purpose hall space to the property, so that would bring larger events.

So we felt like the 47 um spaces that are currently there would not be sufficient to support the full operation of the dairy barns with that addition.

So we include that's why we included the the parking with that first phase.

Does that answer your question?

No, it does.

And I I mean, with with that being the case, if we're really gonna be putting this money together, I'd like us to consider what we're gonna be doing parking with that first phase, if that's going to be the majority of the use of the project.

Thank you.

And you said the parking also was factoring in the addition, which we just removed.

Okay, all right.

All right, do you have any other questions for us on this, Mr.

Mahale?

I think I do not think we have.

Can we go to the parking, please?

Summary slide, or do you think the parking options?

That's the one yeah, that we could look at the three op the summary of the three options.

Unless everyone wants to see a refresher on each slide.

No, okay, we're good.

All right.

Uh councilmember.

Clarifying question slash um additional information requests.

What is the construction and design cost for each of these options?

That's what we've just asked.

Uh that was the question that the mayor just had.

It wasn't clear.

Yeah, so the cost for C1 and C2 would be approximately the same.

Which was it's within that figure.

I don't have the exact parking figure if we have the whole um we can.

If you give us a second, we'll look it up.

Yeah, it's not a problem.

And actually, while they're looking at just super quickly, I do want to call um the question with my colleagues on the idea that I brought up previously uh what we named this complex, and I can go into more detail, but I would really like to get people's feedback on that, maybe after parking.

Councilmember Fulton.

Sorry.

I'm I'm happy to actually consider alternate names for the complex.

I think it's a good idea.

Um but I I guess I have a I have another clarifying question to start with we're looking at different amounts of parking and just trying to figure out, but without uh a real good baseline, at least for me, of like how much parking is necessary.

Like we were kind of shot in the dark, like, oh, well, there is 47, and then there's this here.

There's a reference in the packet to our zoning saying roughly 100 required for phase one.

I I think that's what it said.

Um can I can you help us understand like but based on what because I heard you say earlier that you can't really do a parking analysis until there's a program yes.

So in the in the report in the master plan report, there's uh zoning analysis, and that's based on on your zoning requirements, which require um for the daycare, it would be one uh one space for every six children being taken care of.

And then for the community center, it's one space per every 200 square feet.

So we have to have a program of how many square feet of a building we have before we can determine how much parking we we need.

So one follow-up on that.

Um thank you.

Yeah, that's um I to answer the question on parking.

Given the where I think the direction you got on phasing, I am in favor of option two.

Uh I understand the concerns about the community garden.

Um I actually would the one that persuades me the most is actually preserving the ability to expand it.

So I think if there's a way to include expanding the garden explicitly, uh, because that's why I think we would be preserving it.

I also think it's important to build enough parking to make this space viable.

I am never over here arguing for more parking, and on almost every other project, you will hear me say we don't need parking, but I think it does a disservice to the residents into the future of Rockville for us to spend this much money and not make it accessible for the entire uh community as a whole.

Um, and sort of if we know up front how much we need, we should build it and not kick the can as our responsibility to do that.

So I'm in favor of option two.

Thank you.

How many spaces did you attribute to the addition?

Um so would you I guess what you say, would you revise your numbers based on the addition?

I did a quick math on that just uh a few minutes ago.

It would be about 19 spaces for the addition.

Okay, all right.

So just to give you an idea, zoning right now requires 142.

Without the addition, we'd still need 123.

Okay.

It's not a lot.

So I'll say for me, I'm as part of phase one.

I'm in option three zone, but understanding as we build out the property more that you may need to look at option two.

I think the entire the majority of the body previously said we want to preserve the garden and a previous meeting.

And I know some of us voice concerns about proximity of parking.

So I just wanted to reiterate to folks who are listening that um we did say we're not getting rid of the garden.

Uh, and I think the parking options that preserve that space as well as the play area by the pavilion, because we want the pavilion to be rentable as well, right?

That also is a cost recovery item would help us to keep that space.

So um I I am uh three on the start, and maybe we need to evolve to two as we know that there's more programmatic space.

I'm not into building a ton of parking at the first phase, and then we're not gonna need it for 10 years.

So that's kind of my rationale for that.

Councilmember Jackson.

Sorry, then Miles, and then Van Greg and Shaw.

Do you want to go first?

That's fine.

I think so.

Uh I just want to reiterate, uh, you know, I like option uh three with the the terrace or the the ramp.

Um I wanted to uh stick on option two for a second and ask a question, and that is this.

Um we have the parking lot um configured so it goes north to south.

Is it possible that it goes east to west and it moves over towards um uh the the farmhouse uh and and and and the uh farm um the the road the the uh farmstead road yep you can you can do it?

Um it might need additional um site work um because of the grade, but it can't be done.

Yeah, I just I just want to point out there are some uh older trees there, and we'd want to evaluate them to make sure that they're not heritage trees.

Um, but that would be something to consider as well.

All right, yeah.

So I I think with that um if we could uh work it out, and uh and that's sort of open question, but I would be uh okay with doing uh option three and uh uh part of uh option two, but looking at uh what we need when uh with with the with the cafe that is uh uh east to west rather than north to south.

Thank you, Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I'm largely associate myself with your comments with regard to the parking, as I mentioned before.

Um I do want to recognize what may appear as a degree of tension between our overall efforts to uh bring projects on board, usually is with regard to housing, but projects more generally.

Um there is a bit of a chicken and egg.

Do you build the project first in parking or vice versa?

Um I've certainly not a planner.

I do want to make sure that we're we're moving things forward, but I do want to be mindful, as I mentioned previously.

Um we can you know see how many people show up if we're showing park and then build it later.

That would be my preference.

Um I do defer to state of processes and code and such in terms of how you bring buildings along.

Uh, and happy to have that conversation.

As I mentioned previously, it's difficult to turn something green after you've paved over it.

That's all.

Thank you, Councilmember Van Grank.

So um, as this parking is is a pretty big issue.

We've heard a lot from the community ever since we've been discussing parking.

First of all, it was assumed no matter what, we're gonna need parking here.

If we're devoting this much money and this much space, as a number of us said, you know, the last time we addressed this last month, there's gonna need to be parking.

Um, and so I spent a lot of time over the past few weeks walking through the community, both during the week and during the weekends.

And I think it's important to note, you know, in the option three, we're talking about shared parking, and we're including those 40 street spaces.

I agree with councilmember Jackson, we've got to engage those through a ramp to the extent we can.

Um, and those 250 off-site spaces in Maddie JT's to Panic Park.

I was there this Saturday, and I spent about two and a half hours walking around the area.

I went to go park in Matty JT's Tepanic Park.

I couldn't do it.

There was no spaces available.

Now I know there was a pickleball tournament there, but there was also a lot of other activities.

People were literally walking their dogs.

There was actually an impromptu group of kids playing kind of football on the area that their parents had brought them.

It was almost impossible.

In addition to that, parking along the streets in that neighborhood, it's very difficult.

I couldn't find off-street parking.

And a number of those 40 spaces that we are associating to be used here were taken.

It was difficult for me to find parking, and we haven't engaged the farmstead at all.

And I think it's important to note there's a reason we have the spaces there as we do, because the community's using them.

Now, when I went there last week, I think it was last Tuesday, there was not many people parked in Matty JT Sopanic Park, and I think almost all of those 40 spaces were available.

So many times during the year or even during the week, it's available.

But there are also times on the weekends where people are using a lot of those spaces.

And that's probably, I mean, I could be wrong.

I'm assuming the weekend is when we're going to be engaging the farmstead more than any.

Is that right?

Mr.

Yes, that's correct.

Yeah.

So I am totally there's no question.

I spoke to folks.

Um, I also, this same Saturday, I saw people gardening in the um gardening uh the community garden area and kids playing in that grassy area.

We can't touch that area.

It is too treasured to the community, both for expansion potential.

However, the other side of the farmstead, no time when I went there during the week or during the weekend, did I see anybody in that grassy area?

And there's no question we're going to need some parking.

Remember, this is and and I uh Council Member Valerie said it well.

This is a community center for the whole city.

I I don't have an objection with calling it the Rockville City Farmstead, because this is something, just as we've talked about engaging the whole community, while I think there's gonna be people from Twinbrook who would engage in public transportation, there's a lot of people in Twinbrook that if they're gonna come here, they're gonna need parking.

I know people from my community, you know, most of them, if they're gonna engage, are gonna need parking.

Now, I think option one is off the table.

We really can't consider it.

But I also think if we're truly gonna be engaging um the majority use of what we're doing here, um, both engaging the possibility of the 40 street spaces and the 250 off-site spaces at all times is good.

There's no question it's not going to be enough.

And I think that if we're truly going to be engaging this process, we got to do something closer to option two.

To say otherwise is kicking the can down the road to creating a problem where we are inundating, as much as I've heard from a lot of people in King Farm that really don't want parking.

And I understand that green space is wonderful.

I also heard from residents who live over by Elmcroft, live over by Grand Champion, who are worried that if we don't put enough parking, their streets are gonna be inundated with people trying to find parking because on the weekends, the these facilities are gonna be full.

So my choice is closer to option two.

Um now, that being said, to the extent that we've got those spaces reserved and available to engage.

There's a way in which we can potentially not do everything all at once, but we've at least said in option two, we're gonna place some parking there.

I don't know whether we need to specifically engage the entire amount of spaces that we've allotted there, but I think understanding that there's gonna have to be some spaces that we put in this um area that are more than just the 40 street spaces and the 250 off-site spaces, which again, Saturday afternoon were almost completely taken.

Um we need to consider not just that we're building, but that we're doing it smart to allow people to use it.

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw and then Valeri.

Thank you.

Um I have a preference for option three.

I do think throughout the design phase, we may learn more about needs and programs.

And so I think option three provides us with more flexibility and opportunity.

Councilmember Valeri.

Yes.

Um this is one of my favorite topics.

Um, and even before I got elected, I love talking about parking.

Um, because all the data shows that we are completely overparked as a city.

Um, and actually, I look at this project the way that I look at transit-oriented development.

Because of its proximity to Shady Grove Metro, I see no difference between this project than I do the projects in and around in in my neck of the woods.

Um and you know, I I think that when we think about parking, we think about the here and now and maybe not planning for down the road what um transit's gonna look like.

Um, or you know, something that we haven't even talked about, and I kind of like I giggled a little bit.

Um one of these slides, it showed like a uh a bike shared use path, and I'm like, I think that's just a sidewalk.

Um, but we haven't actually talked about infrastructure, right?

And like ways that we could um make the the built uh transportation infrastructure uh more amenable to people who use a bicycle or people who walk or roll.

Um there's some there's some fun things that we might be able to do.

Fun to me.

I'm a nerd, I get it.

Um, but I think there's things that we can do, and a little bit of a uh uh not a pushback to my my colleague uh council member Van Grack, but you know, there we had an event that past weekend that was in the Twinbrook neighborhood that had people parked all throughout the neighborhood and the neighborhood, I don't think any of us got an email about it.

There were streets were literally like you could not move for the amount of parking because and that was the the car show.

People realize too that you know, not every day is the fourth of July, and not every day is the car show.

So I think that you know, I think our community is a little bit more forgiving as far as um parking on the street or having these sort of events because they all realize hey, this is a citywide event, this is pretty awesome, let's all pitch in and and and do our thing.

So I think it's is possible.

Um, I am definitely all in on option three for a variety of viewpoints, but I think that's something um council member Miles said is something that very deeply resonates with me, and and that is um that we cannot go back and greenify uh a word.

Um, greenify uh concrete, right?

To that point, last point.

Have we done an assessment of the trees on site that may or may not okay?

So that might also affect some of the way that I view things as well.

Um, if there are, we do not have any grand champion trees on that site.

I don't know if we have champion trees.

And um, I think that that would also be some good intel to have as well because it might mean an adjustment.

Not saying it scuttles anything, but it just might mean an adjustment.

Thank you, Councilmember Fulton.

Thanks.

Um I'm thinking about this, and I appreciate that Councilmember Miles like acknowledged the dissonance.

Like it's very hard to at one point say our zoning says 100, but what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Here for us, we don't need any.

Right.

It's it's really hard to say, I need to see exactly what the finances look like in order for me to decide, but you know what, let's not worry about the parking.

But you know what?

Let's not worry about the parking.

We'll figure that out later.

Um I I think it's one thing to say we don't need to do the parking first, phase phasing the parking.

Like let's plan to activate the property, get that, and and then do the parking.

But we need to plan for the parking, not just we'll decide later.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Like our job up here is to do the greatest good for the greatest number over the greatest time horizon.

Not the most expedient thing in the moment.

And if it's staff's assessment and it's our zoning's rules that we need X amount of parking in order to make something successful, we should plan for X amount of parking, minus some percent because we want to move towards a more pedestrian.

Take some off the top.

But we have to plan for the parking that in every other situation we would say is needed.

Uh thank you very much to all of my colleagues for your thoughtful conversations.

I know that parking has been a hot topic in and around the city.

In some places we waived parking, some places we're trying to figure out how do we deal with it.

Um I have a phone, this is gonna be an ongoing conversation.

Uh, but I think we provide the key pieces of feedback to you.

Um there were comments about naming, and I wanted to check with you.

I believe there will be a naming process, and you've heard from some of us.

I I support looking at the naming and and making it a citywide project, but if you could speak to that as well.

Maybe is it okay if I just summarize I can do it really fast, everything I heard.

Yes.

Okay.

Um I heard no dairy barn addition to start.

I heard two phases, but you want to see the whole stacking in the CIP, and you guys may massage that a little bit.

I heard um option three for parking.

And um, we also do have a formal process for naming, just like we went through with tap center.

You guys remember, where we bring forward some ideas and ultimately um the facility would be named via resolution by this body.

And I can tee that up for a future conversation.

Thank you.

Any other key points, colleagues?

Um, I have a question about uh to my colleagues about whether you want to approve this tonight or whether you'd like I heard some people say they'd like to get some feedback from data.

Um I for one wanna I want like to see um how this could be uh included on engaged rock.

I think the full one was the full plan posted, like for people who had a chance to read the full plan also.

October 13th in the evening.

Okay.

Yeah, just for me, I'd be open to allowing more time, but I also recognize uh the incredible work you do.

So I I'm it's not a firm sticking point for me, but I think in the past we have allowed more time for that and to you know, just to hear what people have to say.

But I also am certainly interested in the HDC's uh letter that they sent to us and wanting to take a look at it, but I just wanted to note that.

Councilmember Jackson.

No, I uh I would agree with that, Mayor.

And I mean no.

I I think that the the plan is a loose plan.

I mean, it we had the option to choose from, and so I think that that for us and for the public, we should have a clean um uh plan that we uh you know post that we have uh to look at.

So I would I would be in favor of you know not approving the plan as uh we have discussed uh uh it tonight and uh move it until we can get a clean uh look at it.

So am I hearing you correctly?

So the taking what's online and revising based on the feedback that we've shared tonight is that we're just saying you said clean plan.

Okay.

Colleagues, what are your thoughts?

I just want to hear what everyone has to say.

Councilman Van Garak.

Council Miles.

I think we definitely need to.

We've made a number of changes here, and I think it's absolutely appropriate to let the public know and clarify what we've got it put together.

And if they want to have feedback on what we've decided here today, that being said, I don't want to push this back when we're talking about months because the community and the cities waited long enough to process it, but absolutely waiting and making sure that we get it clear to the public what we've at least via straw polls put together here prior to our voting.

Makes sense.

Dr.

Miles Thank you, Madam Mayor.

At the top, and y'all correct me if I'm wrong.

We said that we can make edits and changes to I mean, even HTC can come back and make some changes.

They just needed something to make changes about.

Is that is that what we said earlier, or am I misinterpreting?

So we would um present architectural plans to the HDC when we have those done, but we need to get the master plan figured out tonight before we can do the plans to share with them.

And then generally speaking, for other parties that are interested, either individuals or organizations.

This process is my understanding given the discussion this evening is iterative, meaning that even if we do adopt and move forward, I recognize so far that hasn't been the mood, but if we do adopt and move forward, there's still opportunities for individuals and organizations to have input in us to consider and make changes.

That correct or no?

Let me caveat it.

It depends on what the council wants to do this evening.

I'm hearing it sounds like we're gonna wait a little bit, make the changes to the plan itself that I receive clear direction from the council tonight.

Repost it, give people the opportunity to review it, provide comments, and then I'd probably bring it back for recomm recommending adoption middle to late November, something like that.

So then the master plans adopted the future review of the site plan, landscape plan, architectural drawings by the plan commission and the HDC would be would come, frankly, many months down the road when we're further along in specific design.

Does that help?

It does.

And I guess the final things I'm I'm all about pointing out hypocrisy tonight, I guess, and myself and us as a body.

We've already mentioned that we wanted to ex about eight things, and then we say, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's slow it down, right?

And so this is just a comment to us as a body.

I mean, we we are we we thank staff for their work, but we're just kind of putting through the loot.

I mean, I mean, we asked for one thing and then you know we come back and change that.

At some point we have to, as Kate means our colleagues say we just have to make a decision um whether or not that's not our or our or moving forward, but we have to commit amongst ourselves to to get this done.

Um I don't it's a heck of a pep talk.

I guess I'm not a great coach, so I'll stop there.

I I will say I I agree with you.

However, this the whole plan was posted 1013, and that's what gives me pause.

And and we've made some changes to it.

So I will go with the majority of the body.

I said it's not firm sticking point for me, but I wanted to at least acknowledge the feedback we've gotten.

Councilman Valeri.

I will say, in all fairness, as somebody who observed the previous elected body, this elected body has not done the back and forth and back and forth and back and forth as the previous body did.

There was a lot more of uh editing.

I'm just throwing that out there as somebody who watched it, but no, it's it's a it's a good point because you know, at some point you gotta like rip the band-aid and and make the decision.

I will say also, you know, that this is a 20 million dollar plus decision, which is what's giving me pause.

30.

I was trying to be generous.

But um, no, I just wanted to throw that out there that I think we are um we are not by any stretch of the imagination fast tracking anything.

I think that we also want to get people's input and giving a little bit more time to people who are ultimately volunteers to be able to pour through the documentation that we also pour through, I think is fair.

Councilman Shaw.

Um, I I also agree with um coming back with the changes because there were significant changes, and this also provides time for the community to process these changes.

Councilmember Fulton.

I just have a question for my colleagues, maybe for clarity.

Are are we are we giving it more time so that the public has more time, or because we made changes or both?

If there were no changes made tonight, would we all think that we need more time?

I'm honestly just curious because we're setting precedent.

For me, it's both.

Okay.

Councilman Shaw.

Yeah, and I I'm just following the timeline um of the city manager recommendation.

Thank you.

Um can I also just ask a question?

I think some like my colleague and I talked about history uh and seeing if we can weave in some of the language on how we would activate history.

I don't know if what the body feels about that, but um I just wanted to note that comment.

Um, and I also want to thank Dr.

Miles for asking the question about the history of enslaved people on this land.

Um, I understand that it has been at least three.

Um so I think we have to honor the land we're on and the history that it is.

It's not just the buildings, uh, but it's telling the story for future generations.

So I would like to see if that plan comes back, and I'd like to have my colleagues if we could just add a bit more on that as well.

Thank you.

Councilman Valeri, just on that note, um, also acknowledging and actually the Maryland Historical Trust uh inventory um includes a little bit of the language as far as what they knew about indigenous um uh folks uh in time.

So I think that including that as well would be really important.

Is anyone against that idea?

Are you okay with that?

Okay, I'm hearing yes, support for that.

Mr.

Michalek.

I apologize.

I just wanted to um end with saying, what an incredible job.

I um appreciate the whole team and the whole department for the work on this.

Uh it's really been, I can tell a labor of love for all of you.

Um I also want to give a special thanks to Tara Stewart, who is gonna be moving on at some point.

Um, and just you have left us with something that's gonna last for generations, and I wanted to say thank you.

You have been at so many events, and I'm just gonna miss you.

Dr.

Miles.

Not to have a last word.

You can have the last word.

But I also want to uh go for it.

I want to thank the public as she did at the at the top, both community forum in person, the written comments, the spirited, passionate testimony to keep us on our toes.

And I'm so glad to have somebody from that neighborhood here, but I do recognize that it is a Rockville property.

So with that, I'll let you have the you you have last words.

Well done.

Uh Mr.

Mehalek wants the last word.

I don't know if this last word's schedule.

Here's what I'm thinking as I look at six-month calendar and the work we have to do.

I'm gonna try to get our team to um have the the updated plan with all the recommended changes posted November 1st-ish.

Emphasis on the ish, and then have it on your agenda for adoption on November 17th.

That's my goal.

If something changes, I'll let you know.

And if that doesn't feel good, also let me know, please.

And thank you, Mayor.

Um, so that would be the first through the 17th.

It would be 70.

Yeah, 17th.

Yes, that's what I heard.

Uh, and you will do the engage Rockfall push email so everyone can see it.

And I would also just let the relevant commissions know that it's up.

Okay.

Thank you so very much.

I'm just looking to see.

All right.

So thank you again.

And uh thank you to all involved, the public, you um, we really appreciate this and excited to adopt a plan in November.

All right.

Uh Councilmember Shaw.

I just also wanna commend uh director Stewart for all of your work, and it's been a pleasure working with you.

And um, I appreciate you also being a Howard alum.

Ow, we're not gonna do the H U, uh, are we?

There was more houses homecoming this weekend.

Just go okay.

So we'll take this offline.

Take it offline.

But for now, since she gets the last word, do you want to get the last word?

H U U N.

Well, um, thank you to the mayor and council uh for all of your support of Wreck and Parks um throughout this entire process and for everything that you all have supported the department with with our budget, with our programs, events, just you all have been wonderful, and um, we have appreciated your support.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, with that, we're gonna take a brief five-minute break.

All right.

Thank you.

Welcome back, Rockville.

Today is still October 20th, 2025.

We're reconvening meeting 25-25.

We're now moving on to our work session, and we are welcoming a discussion on Rockville Housing Enterprises and reviewing their annual report.

Welcome, Jeff Mahalick, our city manager, as well as Dr.

James Hedrick, intern director of Rockville Housing Enterprises.

All right, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Glad to be here today.

I've uh been told I'm the only thing that's standing in between you guys and being done for the night.

So we're gonna try to go through 35 slides much more quickly than normal.

Uh so a quick overview of what we're gonna talk about today, a little bit about Rockville Housing Enterprises.

I always like to give a baseline for what the organization does and what we're here for the city, a little bit about our mission, leadership and staffing changes that we've had, uh, programs that we won, we have client services, talk a little bit about our property management, our financials, then a little bit about our highlights for last year and a look ahead.

Uh so one Rockville Housing Enterprises established in 55.

We are the housing authority for the city of Rockville.

All right, all of you are pretty familiar with this information, I think in the back, so I won't go over all of it here.

But for the uh for the um dozen of folks listening at home, uh y'all appoint the board of commissioners, they hire us, and we run the housing authority for it for the city.

Uh the mission to be an effective and innovative agency dedicated to providing opportunities for self-sufficiency through the creation and preservation of quality affordable housing for the citizens of Rockville.

Um key factor here is effective, innovative and the self-sufficiency piece.

Uh we'll talk a little bit about it as we go through, but Rockville Housing Enterprises has moved to becoming what's called a moving to work agency recently, uh, which uh places a very heavy emphasis on self-sufficiency for our residents.

All right.

A couple of new changes, and I think you might want to uh I think it might be clear.

Hi, I'm James Hedrick.

I'm the interim executive director.

I'm new here.

This would be week seven for me, I believe.

Um so I am the new executive director.

There's been some other changes around.

We have a few staff positions we need to fill with in the agency, but for the large part, uh we've maintained some continuity with a great deal of our staff and then our uh our board as well.

You can see the list of the board of commissioners there.

All right.

So I want to go over a little bit uh just to familiarize y'all with what our Rockville Housing does.

Uh Rockfell Housing Enterprises is a small organization with a uh variety of different programs.

If you have ever sat in a Fulton bank office and signed a variety of papers to get access to all of the bank accounts, you will realize that we get funding from a bunch of different areas and have a bunch of different programs.

So I'm gonna go over a few of them here, some of our biggest ones.

Um we're very small, but we have a lot of different things that we do.

The first is 80 public housing units we have in the city of Rockville, primarily in one property, David Skull, if you're all familiar with off Goodye Drive.

All right, and then four of them that are in our parkside apartment complex.

All right.

And again, as you can see, they pay approximately 30% of their income.

And then we will be converting David Skull, or at least our plan right now is to convert David Skull through what's called rental assistance and the rental assistance demonstration program into a project-based voucher as opposed to pure public housing.

Uh, there's a variety of complicated reasons for that.

The biggest one is that we're paid better and quicker by HUD if we are project-based voucher than if we are public housing.

Uh if you're familiar with the operating and capital funds for public housing have been declining over time, both in real dollars and in actual money.

Uh, but if we are a project-based voucher, we are paid like eight landlord and they pay landlords faster than they pay public housing authorities.

That's the short version of it.

Uh, the housing choice voucher program.

Uh, this is the one where we give a voucher and people go out on the market and find a place to live.

It's our largest program, probably by far uh within uh Rockfell Housing Enterprises.

I would also like to point out that we have a couple of specific population programs underneath the housing choice voucher program.

One of them is the VASH program, it's Veteran Affairs uh provides that, and it's voucher specified for uh veterans.

Uh mainstream, mostly veterans uh in risk at risk of or experiencing homelessness.

So it's a very targeted program.

Uh mainstream vouchers is for adults with disabilities.

We have most of our mainstream voucher participants are in the Parksite Landing property.

Uh we work with organizations like Jubilee to find folks that are eligible for that.

Uh foster youth independent.

We've been uh increasing our foster youth vouchers uh over time.

One of the only ways to get more vouchers is to go after the specialty programs that HUD offers.

The foster one for the last couple of years has been one of the ones that we've done quite a bit with.

Uh, and then mod rehab is an old program that's not really active anymore, but we have a couple of ongoing vouchers within the mod rehab program, and they're old.

There's a couple of other options that we have under the vouchers.

We have a state voucher program that we'll talk about in a moment.

Uh and that's by far sort of our biggest, uh, the largest program that we have.

Project-based voucher assistance, the housing choice vouchers are vouchers given to individuals and families.

Project-based vouchers are vouchers that are attached to a unit itself.

And so under here, you'll see that this is the number of project-based vouchers that we have at various different places.

Um, and so this is where we're trying to move our public housing to.

It simplifies compliance for us.

It helps us uh finance the project and do a bunch of different things.

So hopefully, when I come back next year, uh, you'll see more project-based vouchers here and less in the realm of public housing.

Foster youth independence, as I talked about, this foster youth program.

Uh, I really do um want to commend our staff.

They've worked really hard to expand this program and get more vouchers for us and get the vouchers we have to the kids, the kids, the kids that are out, they're adults at this point, they're aging out of the foster program, but to get them into places to live, and the more that we utilize the vouchers, the more HUD will give us.

And so we've done a really good job of maintaining that over time.

Um this also is helpful.

They don't have to stay on the waiting list for the housing choice vouchers.

Uh, I would point out that if you're curious about the link to the waiting list, I can tell you in private because it's very depressing.

Uh, Veterans Affairs, we talked about that a little bit.

Um, this is really a partnership with VA.

We rely on VA to give us folks that are eligible for it.

We give them vouchers, and there's case casework that helps them get access to their uh to their housing with our voucher.

Again, mainstream uh persons with disabilities under 65 non-senior disabilities for adults, mod rehab.

Um, and then the HUD stability vouchers, um, it's a newer program.

We have a few of them.

It's not uh a program that's been refunded or been re-upped at this point, so we're handling the ones that we have in the program, and we won't really hear much about that too much in the future, but we do have to still uh deal with it as a separate uh program.

Uh here's the statewide rental assistance voucher program.

Um we first got funding for this in 2025.

Uh this year for 2026, we've been given uh we were given uh $97,000 and change in FY25.

This year we have $325,000.

And this is a program to that the state has provided to us to uh pull people from our waiting list uh that might otherwise be eligible for a voucher now and get them into housing faster.

Uh 325,000 is quite a bit for an agency of our size.

Again, uh the staff has done a really nice job of making sure that we have utilization rates that let us participate in these programs.

Uh I will point out that 325 is about enough for eight to twelve families, depending on how many the people are in uh the family.

So it's a good program, but it's a relatively small one overall.

So the summary here, just to give you an idea of where we are regular vouchers, Vash, scattered site, which is our project-based, uh, stability, which is homelessness vouchers, foster care, and then the state rehab, which like I said does approximately 12 depending on family size uh for the people that qualify.

Uh the reason that that's uncertain is we go down the waiting list, people move, people are no longer eligible.

We have to go down the waiting list in order.

So we may end up with a three-person family that's not available, and the next person is either one or two or something like that.

So we're probably looking at about a dozen families.

And the cost is different.

All right, and then the mainstream.

All right.

So to go into a little bit about what we do, other than the voucher programs.

Uh, we have client services department.

It's relatively small, but we're trying to grow it with funding from HUD.

Uh we have really brought on or recently brought on a new uh person, Argurate Roberts, who started after I did.

So she's even newer to uh Rockbell Housing Enterprises than I am.

Uh she's done a really great job so far.

It's really nice to have two folks uh that can handle some of our uh client services, things like food banks and things like that that we run for the for the clients.

Uh we also have an opening currently that we're gonna try to fill soon with the resident opportunities and self-sufficiency coordinator.

It's Ross as the abbreviation.

Uh right now the uh government shutdowns causing a little bit of an issue with with filling that position.

Uh a little bit about the family self-sufficiency program.

Uh really, it's funding by HUD that allows us to pretty much do anything that we can qualify under family self-sufficiency.

It's pretty flexible.

It's very nice uh to have this.

And basically, we work with clients.

Argrit's primarily a uh case manager, uh, to basically see what they need, and then if it's under a certain number of um types and areas, we can fund it without too much problem through FSS.

And so we have a grant for that and a coordinator for that.

Again, resident opportunities and self-sufficiency.

That is more toward um uh it's more toward economic self-sufficiency and uh moving off of the housing program.

You can get into the Ross, and then um there's a variety of different ways that we've um tried to basically uh encourage residents to sort of build up funds that they could need to do a down payment for a home or something like that.

In the past, we've had one or two folks take advantage of it every year to actually move to home ownership, usually through the MPDU program.

So some cross subsidies there.

Uh we're considering moving to a slightly different model um that is more along the lines of incentive payments as opposed to some sort of escrow account, which is what it's set up as now.

Uh that's really gonna depend on when the government shutdown ends and we sort of hash that out with HUD.

Again, uh on to the uh, if not main event, then at least a reasonably decent event.

Uh asset and property management.

Um in addition to having our voucher programs and various programs through HUD and other uh government agencies, uh Rockville Housing Enterprises owns several properties around the city of Rockville, as I'm sure you're all aware.

The major ones being Parkside Landing and Scarborough Square.

Uh under property management and asset management, we also include our scattered site, PBV, uh project-based voucher, because those are mostly single family homes that we own through a program that we had with HUD.

A long time ago, I do not remember off the top of my head exactly when it was, but they're part of our asset portfolio at the moment.

And of course, we have David Skull.

All right.

So our sort of project going forward for asset and property management, Parkside Landing, lease up and improve the on-site management, as you've all sure have been aware.

We've had some major issues with property management at Parkside Landing.

Uh I've been over there now.

I've lost count of the number of times in the last six or seven weeks.

Uh we have some work to do over there and some trust to rebuild and a lot of vacant units to fill.

Uh, but we are, I think, moving in the right direction, at least I hope so.

Scarborough Square, uh, we are in the middle of a refinance of Scarborough Square, finally.

Uh, when we purchased the property, it was originally intended to be refinanced within a year.

Uh, we're going on two and change at this point.

Um, we have refinanced one of our major equity.

There was an okay.

Uh sorry, there was a squeak and I wanted to make sure I didn't touch a button that I wasn't supposed to.

Uh Scarborough Square, we are doing the refinance.

We've already refinanced the equity portion, so we've gotten 16 and a half from the county to buy out uh one of our partners, Orlow.

Uh, and we now have a loan with the county for a portion of it.

We still have a 24 million dollar senior loan and then a construction loan that we're financing right now.

My hope is to have that by the end of the year, if I'm being honest about it, probably first quarter of 2026 is when we'll finish the refinance.

I swear I'm not touching any buttons.

But we will probably refinance the senior loan in 2026.

I would imagine the first quarter, hopefully as soon as possible.

And then begin re uh rehabilitation and construction on Scarborough Square, probably in the first quarter of next year as well.

Don't quote me on that when I come back next year.

David Skull.

We're doing what we've done with David Skull for a long time, which is continue to repair it.

It's an old property.

It has never had a full rehab at David Skull.

Those buildings are past probably long past at this point, the lifetime that they were expected to.

One of the reasons that we're moving to RAD and Project Based Voucher is that we can recapitalize the property in a way that we cannot with public housing.

So we really need we're uh going to the county for CDBG money to the city for CDBG money, all to rehab and repair David Skull and keep it up to speed until we can do a full rehab on that pro on that property.

So asset and property management, David Skull, 76 units, the scattered site, project-based vouchers are 29.

RELP 1 is 56 units, we mostly MPDUs that we've purchased.

RHEP, it's not particularly important what the what that stands for, but it's four units of extra public housing we have in Parkside Landing.

Scarborough Square and then Parkside for a total of 439 units.

So combined assets and vouchers, if you're curious, give or take, we have about a thousand units of vouchers in uh vouchers and units within the city of Rockville, uh, given approximate family size that averages to about, or that calculates to about 3300 people or 3,500, give or take on any given day.

Uh quick look at the financials.

This is just an update on sort of where the money goes for the city of Rockville.

As you can see, the voucher programs are about half, uh, a little less than half, about 42%, but about half of what we have overall.

If you combine it with public housing, it's about half.

Parkside's about a quarter.

Scarborough Square, about 15%, and then the other pieces that we have are smaller in there.

But for about 18 million for this coming year, we'll probably be a little up.

We'll probably be closer to 20 given the expansion of the voucher programs that we have.

All right.

Highlights from the year.

Uh, quick rundown again.

I'm standing between everybody and being able to go home.

Uh, David Skull Community Center reopening.

Many of you guys were there for the ribbon cutting.

It was in this year, uh, which we're very excited about that.

That was um uh legislative bond initiative that we got to uh rehab that.

We're coming back to ask you guys for some money to fix the roof.

So don't you know worry about that.

Scarborough Square refinance, that's gonna be probably the biggest piece that we have coming up in the year that we come back and talk about when I come next year.

Um again, that's about 24 million in the senior loan.

It'll be about a 36 million dollar rehab loan overall.

Uh new leadership and team members, uh, in addition to myself and Argent, who I mentioned, uh, we've got a fair number of holes to fill in the organization.

Uh we need a deputy director, we need an HR manager.

Uh, we have a really heavy caseload for our uh housing voucher folks.

Uh they're doing with uh between port-ins, which is vouchers that we get primarily from HOC.

Um we have very, very heavy caseloads for our housing voucher folks.

I'm hoping to hire some new ones there to alleviate some of the caseload.

Uh and then with our um to do a little bit better oversight on our asset management, we need more folks in our asset management.

Currently, we have two and a half.

If you count Talonda, the intern, who also started within the last couple of weeks, and she's done a fantastic job so far.

Uh, but we do need a lot, we do need to expand our staff significantly.

The staff that we have has been excellent so far.

I have nothing but uh high praise for everybody uh since I've come in.

Uh, but we are understaffed at the moment quite significantly, mostly in um we could also use a finance person, but let's not get greedy.

All right.

Uh City of Rocco Financial Literacy Grant, we've been working on that and are currently in the process of uh doing about uh 10 financial literacy workshops with folks from Scarborough, Parkside, David Skull, et cetera.

Uh, we should have that completed by the end of this year, 2025.

Uh, and then last, I've put it down as sort of expanding partnerships.

Um of the things that we need to do to fill some of the vacancies that we have, particularly at Parkside Landing, is work with some of our partners.

We have a long-term partnership with Jubilee for uh independent living for adults with disabilities.

Uh we're working on right now a variety of different partners uh at the state level, mostly nonprofits that deal with either domestic violence issues or inclusive housing uh or a variety of other um you know uh populations that are you know at risk.

And we're working on moving some of them into some of the vacant units that we have at Parkside and then offering them to stay there.

So that's one of the things that we're working on as we go forward.

Our partnership with Jubilee has worked out really well for a long time.

We're hoping to expand a lot of that.

Um some wonderful pictures from the year.

David Skull ribbon cutting, we called that David Skull Community Center before and after.

I just always want to bring up the pictures because it looks great now.

They kept the mural on the wall.

I think that's great.

That was kids.

All right.

You guys have been there.

Many of you guys have been there.

It looks fantastic these days.

I did want to highlight because I haven't brought it up yet.

I always leave the best for last.

Our youth build program.

Councilmember Valeri was nice enough to come and uh to our graduation last week for our youth build program.

We graduated another 12 youth build students this year.

If you're not familiar with the youth build program, you can read about it right there.

But it takes students who either at risk of not uh completing high school or have not completed high school and have dropped out.

They get to have their GED, they get trained in construction, they all get an HBI certification, OSHA certifications, CPR certifications.

Um, get the training that they need to find jobs, apprenticeships, and internships.

Um, and then basic life skills, financial literacy, things like that.

They run through that.

We give them sort of all the support uh that we can through stipends for their internships, um, transportation.

Uh I've been signing off on Uber budgets for the last couple of weeks now.

Um, it takes a lot to get all those kids from one place to another, but it's absolutely worth it.

Uh, but so we had a graduation on this Wednesday, they've all done a fantastic job.

Uh, so fantastic that I've hired four of them myself.

If you have any openings or internship possibilities, please let us know.

Uh, we're working with a bunch of different organizations.

Uh, in addition to the sort of the basic unions and the construction companies and things like that, we're also partnering with Montgomery Parks and some other places to get them fed into internships there and hopefully onto jobs.

So the youth build program really is a highlight of uh Rockville Housing Enterprises.

Um we are, I will uh I don't want to bring down the room.

I will bring up the fact that between the um the previous three year funding that we got and the next three year funding that we got, we are going to have a gap of about six months.

Uh, and if you could uh see your way clear to give us about $60,000, I can fund that gap and not have to lay off any of my staff.

So if you want to think about that, we'll talk about it offline.

But we do uh we are applying for and expect to get the next Department of Labor grant, uh, but the three year money runs out and the next NOFA uh and the money does not come in for about six months afterwards.

Uh they're not allowing any extensions at this point.

So I just want to put that out there for everybody.

It's a fantastic program.

Some more pictures that we have here.

RHE in the community, as you all know, we've done national night out for a long time.

We do meal donations, we do backpack drop-offs, we do all that kind of thing with our uh with our clients and our residents.

I do want to bring up one real quick thing before we get to the end of the presentation.

The RHE Foundation, we have we launched back in 2023.

Since I've come on board, I've made it a priority to sort of relaunch or reinvigorate the RHE Foundation.

We had RHE Foundation um donations at the youth build graduation.

Um we have gotten, I think this year, we're sitting somewhere between eight and nine thousand dollars.

I'm figuring out the top of my head.

But we're trying to push the RHE Foundation, particularly as a more understandable nonprofit organization as a 501c3.

Uh, we're more eligible for a variety of grants that RHE itself is a public housing authority might not be eligible for.

So we're using it to apply for grants, several of them right now.

You're not the only people I'm asking for money for the youth build program.

There are a variety of other people I'm asking for money for the youth build program.

Uh, one of the big things to I hope that when I come back to you next year, we'll be talking about there being considerably more money and more activity in the RIG Foundation.

One of the big advantages of the RIG Foundation is it's unrestricted funding.

I can't use um certain HUD money for other things.

I can't rob Peter to pay Paul.

Um, or if I do, I have to pay them back very quickly before they figure out that I did that.

Uh but with the foundation money and donations, uh, I haven't really, I'm joking, I haven't done that.

I have a very good account, and you make sure I don't do that.

Um, but with the REG Foundation, it's unrestricted funding.

And so if I need something to pay for that I can't normally pay for, this is where I draw my fund from, this and our development income.

And um we don't have a ton of development income right now, uh, given the Scarborough projects delay.

So this is one of the areas in which we have unrestricted funding.

Uh, and then again, partnerships, uh, we can't do it alone.

We're very small agency.

Um, we're no longer classified oddly as a small, small public housing authority anymore.

I don't know when we pass that.

We're not technically small anymore, although we are uh relatively small.

Uh, but we work with the county, we work with the state, we work with the city, we work with nonprofit organizations, we work with so what else?

We work with community reach, we work with Jubilee.

Um, we work with a whole bunch of different organizations to do what we do.

We don't have the resources to go at it alone.

Um, so we work with all these folks to sort of both in funding, both in finding clients and residents in providing them services that we don't have in-house.

That's a lot of what our client services manager does right now is hustle around, talk to nonprofits and see who can help us out and do after-school programs and things like that.

So we work with a lot of partners, and that's one of the things that we're trying to expand over the next year.

And then finally, a look ahead.

2025 was our 70th anniversary.

2046 would be 71, which is less of a round number, so I thought I'd bring it up.

And again, and I've talked about these all now.

Um Scarborough Square's financial our final refinance, that will hopefully be the last time that we come and have our bothered by Scarborough Square.

Umganizational reinforcement, again, we've got some gaps, and we haven't really filled them over the last couple of years.

So we have a lot of organizational rebuilding to do and to bring in folks with skills and in for like a knowledge.

As I said, we need HR, we need a deputy director, we need compliance managers, we need um housing voucher folks to take some of the load off.

We need a lot there.

Um again, our RHE foundation relaunch.

You'll hopefully be seeing a lot more of that.

We've talked about getting in the um Rockville reports for the um Rockville reports for the uh holiday season.

Um we've again used it to go after different foundation grants that only do 501c3s.

Uh so we're hoping that expanding youth build.

I really would like again to fund that gap and get to my FY26 uh youth build grant.

Um and I think we can expand youth build.

We're gonna ask for more this year than we have in the past.

We've graduated good classes over the last couple of years, and I'm hoping that labor will recognize that.

Uh, and then finally increasing our property management capabilities.

Uh, we really do need to either have more in-house staff capable of overseeing the properties that we have.

Uh, we need to bring more of that in-house, or we need to bring more on-site to the or to the uh buildings and properties that we have.

So a lot of that's gonna go into basically hoping and expanding our property management capabilities.

That means both internal training and hopefully hiring from outside staff.

And I think I went through 35 slides in a reasonable amount of time.

So uh that's the quick version.

I've been here for seven weeks, and I gave you a year's report.

Uh, if you have any questions, I'm absolutely happy to answer them.

And if I don't know, I will tell you that and we will come back later.

Thank you very much.

Take a quick breath.

I'll just say congratulations on the 70th anniversary of Rockwell Housing Enterprises.

Um, I will say I've seen firsthand how important RHE is to the safety net for residents here in the city of Rockfall.

Um, I know that there's been some transitions and some things over the past year that you are working to um you know stand up and fix.

Um, so I want to acknowledge that.

I also want to note I think you've graduated at least three classes of youth build.

I've got three classes.

Two of the three graduations, and they are tier jerkers.

Really incredible the work that they're doing to give students new life uh and each of their stories in terms of going from not being able to graduate high school to feeling the the joy of of graduating from a program like that and building something is really quite impressive.

So I I thank you for bringing that to Rockwell.

I think that was a newer program in the past few years.

2022 was when we first applied for that one, and we've uh started 2023 was our first year, and then this is our third graduating class.

Incredible addition to one.

Um and then also the David Skull Community Center that came online recently.

And actually the establishment of the 51c3 is something that had been talked about for a while uh last term, and you did it.

So uh congrats to that as well.

Um I just wanted to note you you said a couple of comments about um the impact of the federal shutdown, and I just kind of wanted to just better understand because we need the organization to continue uh to thrive so that you can do the you know quality housing investments and the staffing investments that you mentioned.

But if you can just in summary share what your uh crystal ball says about that.

My crystal ball is very cloudy and possibly broken.

Um currently we are in a pretty good position.

A bunch of our voucher funding and some of our grants was um basically pre-deposited.

Youth build, we were able to draw um retroactively.

So we we reimbursed on youth bill.

So for the next few months of a government shutdown, we're in an okay position.

I'm not thrilled about it.

Um I can't access certain amounts, uh certain programs of funding that I would like to be able to access, mostly public housing.

Um, our operating and capital funds are not accessible at the moment.

Uh, but as far as vouchers are concerned and things like that, we're okay for the next couple of months.

Uh if it lasts, you know, through the end of the year, uh, we are having a very different discussion.

Um, that would be a problematic for us.

We're uh public housing authority, we do not keep a lot of money on hand.

We do not keep cash on hand.

Um pretty much everything that goes in comes in goes out.

Um, but the way that they're financially structured, a lot of them are basically preloaded for a certain amount of time, and we can draw against that.

Um, not all of the programs, but some.

Um, but again, it's gonna in a couple of months the funding streams will dry up for us.

Yeah.

Uh last question before I turn to my colleagues.

Uh Scarborough uh was a building that needed a lot of work before RHE bought it.

Yes.

Uh and now that the uh funding piece is you're trying to refinance that is delayed.

Um, how long do you think it will take before you can get to that quality housing enhancements for Scarborough?

For Scarborough, I we should start construction, I would hope in the first quarter of next year.

Um, realistically, depending on the schedule.

Second quarter is not out of the realm of possibility.

Um we given the the refinancing that we originally hoped would happen, didn't we actually have stockpiled a fair amount of actual construction material and have contracted with you know somebody to do the actual construction?

So once we have the financing piece in place, we should be able to move relatively quickly.

And we have maintained about a 15% vacancy rate at Scarborough so that we can start on the project relatively quickly and then move cycle folks through and out.

It's gonna be a little bit harder with the larger units.

We have some three and four bedroom uh that will have to have a relocation plan for folks to come off site for a couple months while they're rehabbed and then come back.

Um but we should be able to start relatively quickly.

So I'm hoping first half of next year as is when we can get started on the construction.

Uh the overall construction timeline is about 24 months for the whole property.

If anybody's ever been involved with the construction process, if they ever fit, I've never seen one that's finished on time.

If you ever find one, let me know.

Uh but 24 to 30 months is probably not out of the realm of possibility that has to go from one end of the property all the way through to the other.

Thanks for so we're probably in 28 at that point to finish it.

All right.

I'm just looking to my colleagues for questions.

Dr.

Molly, that's your hand.

Yeah.

Thanks so much, Madame Mayor.

Thanks for the spirited presentation.

Something made it interesting.

And in all seriousness, thanks for your work and the work, of course.

Of your colleagues there.

I appreciate uh I don't know if it was you or staff got back to me with regard to the conversion of remaining public housing units into project-based vouchers.

You addressed that in your presentation as well.

As quickly noted in the mayor's comment.

I recognize the rationale for the conversion.

There's a fair amount of uncertainty what HUD's gonna do at a federal level.

Um is this still a reliable source?

Um or is this as reliable as it gets given the circumstances?

The latter.

Um honestly, I sort of we'd sort of have to plan based on what we're what we're being told at the moment.

And uh HUD's given every indication that they're gonna continue with RAD and project-based voucher conversions.

Um honestly, until the money's deposited, I don't really know.

Um, but we can't maintain David Skull the way it is now, and we don't have the we don't have the cash on hand to fix it.

Um, you know, we're being funded on our capital and operating budgets at about 80 some odd percent have been for years.

So we just don't have the the funds to fix it, and we're we're dipping into CDBG pretty much annually to fix siding issues and HVAC and things like that.

If we're gonna maintain the property and and keep it in the portfolio the way it is, it's it we we've got to do something else and put it on different financial footing.

And I can't recapitalize a public housing project, is the real real issue.

So I'm I'm sort of dependent on grant grant funding and CDBG in particular to sort of paper over the cracks in that building.

So in the short term, you know, we can we can limp along the way we have.

In the long term, we've got to do something significant to rehabilitate that property.

Understood.

Thanks so much.

Councilman Michael.

Um, I just wanted to congratulate you again on your newish uh position.

And it's great working with you.

Um so I had a question as you're converting the public housing to project-based vouchers.

I understand the benefit of that, and it's somewhat more stable money.

Um can you share uh about the impact on the transition for that for the residents?

Um for something like David Skull to a project-based voucher, everybody has the right of return and is is granted a project-based voucher outside of the wait list process.

So anybody that's there would automatically be granted a project-based voucher if they want one for the unit.

Um with the rehabilitation, there would obviously be a time in which people could not live in the units while we rehab them.

And for David Skull, it would be a gut rehab, pretty much.

Um we'd be taking off the roof, we'd be stripping out everything out of the house, we'd be replacing every appliance that's in there, we would probably be doing significant plumbing, things like that.

Um so there would be a point of time in which we'd have to relocate folks off-site.

Um for Scarborough, we're considering using some of our the scattered site project-based voucher units that we have that are family size.

Uh, we don't have enough for everybody, but if one of when they those come open, we'll hold them open for folks.

We'll probably do something similar with David Skull.

Um, but overall, if they're living there now, they will have the right to come back and live and they'll be granted a project-based voucher outside of the wait list process.

Um can you talk a little bit about any of the administrative challenges?

I know you talked about being understaffed.

So with that conversion, can you just share about the administrative challenges?

Yeah, uh, with with something like that, usually we bring in the consultant to handle relocation.

We've used um different consultants in the past to handle relocation uh for folks sort of in and out of that process.

Honestly, the project-based voucher is actually a considerably less administrative burden than public housing itself because we don't have to do as much recertification.

Uh income recertification, we can move to a three-year cycle rather than a one-year cycle, which is one thing that we can do.

Now that's a little bit iffy because for most of our public housing, they're actually zero income.

So the income certification is fairly straightforward.

Um, but for there are there are a variety of uh compliance things that are different between project-based vouchers and public housing.

One of them is the income recertification.

Uh, the other is simply that we don't have another program to administer.

And I, you know, we have voucher staff that is familiar with project-based vouchers and we're able to move them pretty quickly.

And then we're paid differently, and there's a variety of other administrative issues for it.

So it actually sort of it sort of streamlines our process a little bit.

More to not have public housing as a separate entity in and of itself.

Councilmember Larry.

Thank you so much for the the great overview.

Um and and very, as council member Dr.

Miles said, very spirited uh delivery of it as well.

Um I had I have to uh use my my time at the microphone to give a serious shout out to the youth build crew of Kurt and Sam, and I think her name was Kim.

Kim, she's Kim, yes, the case manager, um slash counselor slash uh MC for the graduation.

Exactly.

I mean, it this is such a phenomenal program.

I've been lucky now to go to the last two.

Um I'm just always struck by um how grounding it is for me.

Um, but you know, the the I say kids too, and I think some of them display more maturity than a lot of adults I know, but um they they they keep it real and they're very focused um on their overall goal and you know putting it in context and really showing that this has provided real hope and not just the word hope, but an actual action um behind it.

And man, oh man, can they uh rattle off the certifications?

I I can hang up until a certain point, and then I was like, wait, what is that one?

Um, but yeah, yeah, just a phenomenal, like there's so many people at RHE that I think do phenomenal work.

Um, but I really had to take a moment.

Um, I think Kurt's leadership.

Um, they all bring different strengths to the table, but I think Kurt is a phenomenal leader of the the youth build department, as it were.

And um, I'm I'm very lucky and thank you for providing a space for youth build to be.

Oh, yeah.

No, it's a it's a phenomenal program.

I'm really it's it's been one of the major success stories we've had over the last couple of years.

And uh for those who have not met Kurt uh Turnier is our project manager for Youth Build and has been since we started the program.

Uh absolutely done a phenomenal job putting that together.

Um he's he's done just wonderful work with that program, does wonderful work with the students.

Uh Samuel Joe as well is sort of the his uh deputy is not really as his title, but that's essentially what he is.

Uh he's done great work with the kids as a mentor figure, and he basically is the one that finds the jobs and the internships.

And um Kimberly Jones is our newest one that's uh come on board.

She and I started the same day and met in the elevator coming up.

So she's done a she's done really nice, like just great work as a case manager uh for the last few weeks and does great work uh with them so far, getting everybody to get their get their certifications and finish their GED work and and all that kind of thing.

So they really they've really done a fantastic job putting that program together.

It's really great.

And actually, real quickly, yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that um the youth build uh team and some of the um uh uh participants were instrumental in helping to provide um some real um uh assistance and building of of things at the Twinburg Elementary School Um kind of cleanup day, as it were.

Um and I just thought that was that was the first time I got to meet them and really see um folks in action.

And I just think it's a great model overall.

I I wholeheartedly agree.

Not seeing on the other hands.

Okay.

All right.

Um well I just want to say uh thank you.

I know I shared a couple of questions with you, and uh just want to make sure that um uh I say also thank you because there's been at least two schools that um we've had that the neighborhoods have needed additional uh wraparound services on those sites.

And um I appreciate you sitting down and meeting with the school community um to be able to help address and support so it's not just housing, but it's the wraparound services, the uh food, the financial literacy, the uh helping people navigate so that they can um progress in their own uh life experience.

Absolutely.

Yeah, uh Councilman Van Greg.

I just want to add one thing.

I mean, aside from the fantastic job, you uh proud to have you here.

You mentioned something I think is important outside of what RHE is doing.

You've got the uh Rockfell Housing Um Enterprises, the RHE Foundation.

Um and I know that one of the things that are making it go forward is the donation from the community.

Can you talk a little bit about one, how people would donate if they want to, and what exactly is that money going to and how is it benefiting our community?

Oh, absolutely.

So that would be a really good time if I had remembered to put the uh QR code on the end of my slides.

That would have been super helpful.

Um but you can go on to the RHG Foundation is linked on our website, and there's a QR code.

You can scan it if you want with your phone.

You can get in, you can donate right there.

One of the first things that we're doing with the foundation is offering scholarship to our youth build participants.

So we can pay for anything while they're in the program.

We can pay for internships and things like that.

But several of them want to go on and get uh certifications and you know um, you know, electrical work, or they want to go to Montgomery College or something of that nature.

Uh we can't pay for that out of the youth bill directly, but one of the things we're gonna do is offer scholarship through the RH Foundation.

So that's one of the first things that we're gonna do with it.

Otherwise, our client services department is heavily dependent on HUD grants, and as we're all well aware, as Congress or as Councilmember Miles mentioned, um, not exactly the most stable source of funding at the moment.

Um, one of the things that I want to do to expand our client services department is I need the unrestricted funds, and that's another place that we're gonna go.

So we're working right now.

We do a lot of partnerships with organizations to bring in after school programs and things like that.

Um, and that's I want to bring as much of that in-house as I can, not to eliminate those partnerships, but to be able to have more of them.

So right now we have after school programs at David School.

I'd like to expand that to Scarborough, I'd like to expand that to Parkside, et cetera.

So that's one of the things I hope to do in the future of the foundation.

The first thing is absolutely gonna be the scholarship fund.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And you have some housing available, is that correct?

We do right now across the units.

We have probably about 55 to 60 vacant units that are actually vacant that aren't in the process of being filled.

Um most of them are at Parkside Landing right now, and it's um one, it's been an issue with uh property management.

Another issue is that we are under the level that we need to be for tax credit compliance, and so we cannot fill some of our market rate units before we fill tax credit units.

And so we're working on filling income restricted units right now, which is slowing down the process.

That's great.

So I importantly, just for our community aware that there is some affordable housing options in the city.

Uh people are looking, they should reach out.

And that is different from the wait list.

I know people might look at that and think, oh, there's nothing available, but there is housing available through our team.

There are how there is housing available, particularly Parkside Landing.

We're holding um some of the Scarborough units uh vacant because we're about to tear the walls out of those, and I don't think anyone wants to live through that.

Uh but we do have Parkside, we have a couple dozen units there that are eligible now.

Uh they're income restricted tax credit units, but it's pretty high income limits, about 60% of area median income.

But that is not waitlisted as our other programs are.

So it can be kind of confusing with our voucher wait list, which is quite long at the moment.

Um, but the parkside landing income restricted units are not waitlisted.

They're available right now, and you can go down to Parkside Landing and they will be open and they will take your application, and I will happily help you move your couch in from your car.

That's wonderful.

Thank you.

I just wanted to make sure that because people are looking for housing.

And I also appreciate that you're taking a more hands-on um look at the property managers and making sure people also have quality housing.

Absolutely.

So thank you for that as well.

All right.

I am not seeing any of the hands, and I want to thank you.

Congrats on seven weeks has been a lot done in that time.

Uh, and thank you for coming forward to us with an annual report.

We look forward to collaborating and supporting a social safety net.

And I'll try to follow up with some of those questions in writing as well that we can share around that you sent earlier.

Thank you so much.

All right.

So we'll now move on to our mock agenda.

And I know we did leadership planning team meeting today uh and went through this, but just wanted to see if anyone had any final comments or questions.

Okay.

We'll move on to old new business.

Yes, Councilmember Jackson.

So I gave the city manager a heads up, and I think I'd uh talk to a number of people.

Um recently uh in the state legislature, they passed uh HB 767, which deals with evictions, and uh it was recently enacted into law, and part of that legislation includes a provision that municipalities can uh extend the time between when landlords give notice notice of uh eviction until they can start eviction from six to fourteen days.

So uh if the body would agree, um, I would like to to um basically to take advantage of uh that provision in the law and uh extend it from uh six to fourteen uh days.

Um so what do we need to do to to make that happen, Mr.

uh city manager thank you.

Thank you.

Can I also just add a can I add on to your question?

Sure.

Um so with the cannabis legislation, there was a time limited that we had ability to expand and to you know figure out what we were going to do as a city.

Uh if you could also just let us know if there are any time parameters that we need to do to be able to enact this as well, should the body decide.

Right.

If I could do just a bit of research and I'll send you guys an email, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Councilmember Shaw and then Valeri.

And this is something I think the county passed as well, right?

They had a discussion on it.

They're they're in discussion.

Yeah.

Councilmember Valeri, and then Councilmember Fulton.

Yes, I just want to say um, not that we're deciding anything, but I just want to say I really support this, and I want to um thank uh councilmember Jackson uh for uh sharing it, and and I think this would be something that uh would do uh uh a lot of good um in the city.

So looking forward to how we can make it happen.

Thank you.

Councilmember Fulton.

So to that point about how to make it happen, and yeah, I think it's sounds like a good idea.

Aren't we doing the landlord tenant update soon?

Is that is there an orderly way to do this so that it's not a one-off uh we so it would be a one-off.

And we are having a we have work sessions on the six-month calendar to talk about landlord tenant code updates.

So can I just also that was part of my question about um is there a time limiting factor, right?

Because sometimes the state says you have this much time to change what we are doing or to implement, you know.

So I just wanted to see if there's similar to the cannabis where there actually was a time limitation.

Um, and then two, I think the landlord tenant would take no matter what we're doing, it's gonna take some time because you have to do a bunch of public hearings, and it's it's not a short process.

Meanwhile, we're trying to address the eviction issues.

Correct.

Okay.

But I take your point, and I I understand.

Councilmember Valeri, and then Councilmember Jackson again, and then Councilman Van Greg.

So, no, and I I appreciate that because that's a really good uh question, and it's something I'd been trying to um uh ponder through that, you know, um it took a public health emergency for those sort of eviction um anything to be done to protect people.

We're in the midst of a federal shutdown.

Who knows you know when that's gonna end and what is the most that we can do without there being uh an emergency uh to be uh enacted by on the state level.

So if it's something that you know, um we can maybe do while waiting for the broader landlord tenant discussion.

To me, it makes sense because if there again, if there's anything that we can do to assist folks in that realm of not getting um evicted while they're not getting paid, um I think that that would be a good thing.

Councilmember Van Grek.

Uh I would just gotta add, um Councilmember Fulton's right that we're really talking about a global perspective for landlord tenant, but this is a state law that is giving us the ability, just like Montgomery County is looking I hopefully towards uh doing that's extending what the state law provides on a legal basis.

And uh I would support uh taking a look at this, and I think uh to the extent it's possible I know a lot of other uh counties across and municipalities across Maryland are looking to extend the way to which the state legislator allowed it, and I I think it's a very good idea.

And um I support my colleagues supporting it.

Councilmember Jackson.

So to be to clear, um I think it's important to do this sooner rather than later and not lump it in with everything else.

I take my uh colleagues point but it seems like this is a simple thing and it would do a lot of good uh for for residents who are facing uh eviction so for that I would uh urge uh us to take it up sooner rather than later yeah and just for clarity for the public is my understanding that it would give people instead of having six days notice 14 days so that they know what the date is that their actual eviction they have more time to move their their items is that right Councilman Grack do you want to clarify I try to clarify we can the state has made it six that's we can go all the way up to 14 that's right seven eight nine all the way up to a maximum of 14 to adjust what the states do.

Yes that's that's right.

Councilmember Shaw um I I agree with my colleagues we should do this as soon as possible um I just wanted to also just uh check with reviewing the law because I know like just cause eviction for example really just only counties can do it and it was going attorneys were going back and forth if individual municipalities could do that and so just I just wanted to confirm and and see that and then um but yes like do this as soon as possible um the one thing I wanted to just check on and I spoke to the city manager about this and sent an email I just wanted to see given the extended period of federal shutdown and people not getting paychecks um for the first time last week um some people um I just if if we are seeing a lot of requests for rental assistance or financial assistance which people wouldn't ordinarily qualify for because technically they're employed I just wanted to just get a sense of the city manager I know your team is monitoring that if just we could get a sense of if that is becoming a problem whether we need to adjust any eligibility criteria or bring it for consideration.

All right do we have a motion to adjourn councilmember councilmember Shaw I moved to adjourn.

Councilmember Fulton would you like to second all those in favor please raise your hand to say aye thank you to staff for your time today and great meeting team