Good evening, Rockville.

Today is November 3rd, 2025, and we are beginning meeting 26-25.

Colleagues, please join me as you're able, as well as those in the room and those watching online in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I Pledge Allegiance of the United States of America.

And to be a vote, which stands one nation.

So today is a special day.

We do once a month recognitions and proclamations.

And my colleagues and I have a couple of things to celebrate with the entire Rockville community today.

So I'll ask my colleagues, please join me in the front, and we will begin.

Okay.

Good evening, everyone.

The first recognition is to declare November 2025 as municipal government works month in Rockville.

I just wanted to pause and say we have some incredible staff here in the city of Rockville.

They do things that we don't even know and see behind the scenes, from making sure that our water systems are safe to making sure that our community is safe as we traverse, whether that's Rockville City Police Departments or public works or planning.

There are just so many people who are quietly doing what is needed to make it such a high quality community.

And so today we celebrate them, our everyday heroes of Rockville.

Whereas the city of Rockville was incorporated in 1860, and Maryland is home to 156 other municipalities.

Municipal governments represent the most responsive form of government, with individuals being able to directly access their elected officials and staff.

Now, therefore, the mayor and council of the city of Rockville, Maryland, do hereby proclaim and join the Maryland Municipal League in declaring the month of November 2025 as municipal government works months in Rockville, Maryland.

And we encourage everyone across Rockville to join folks across the United States to recognize and participate in the special observance.

Councilmember Van Graak moves a proclamation.

Councilmember Fulton seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Excellent.

I would like to welcome Linda Moran.

She is the assistant to the city manager.

Would you like to say a few words?

Thank you, Madam Mayor, and members of the council and community.

As the city staff liaison to the Maryland Municipal League, I'm just very pleased to accept this proclamation.

It's a wonderful organization and it highlights all of the wonderful things that local governments and their communities do together.

Thank you.

Oh, sure.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Okay.

Next up, we have the proclamation in honor of Hospice and Palliative Care Month.

This is a proclamation that is very close to my heart.

My father utilized the wonderful and compassionate services of Montgomery Hospice toward the end of his life.

And when you have a chronic illness, you spend a lot of your life kind of thinking about the way in which your life will cease to be and a lot of time talking it through.

And I found that hospice care and palliative care both really show a tremendous respect and tremendous compassion and a wonderful approach toward helping people to ease on in the next journey of life.

And I'm really profoundly glad for that.

Whereas for more than 40 years, hospice has helped provide comfort and dignity to millions of people, allowing them to spend their final months at home surrounded by the people important to them.

Now, therefore, be it resolved that the mayor and council of Rockville, Maryland, do hereby proclaim November 2025 as National Hospice and Palliative Care Month, and encourage all residents to increase their knowledge about person-centered, holistic care for all individuals facing serious and life-limiting illness, discuss their health care wishes with those they care about, and mark this month with appropriate learning, sharing, caring, and outreach.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

Council Jackson, seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand.

Hi.

And we have Karen Brubaker Miller.

Is she here from Montgomery Hospice?

Wonderful organization.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yes, thank you so much.

So thank you, Madam Mayor and members of the council.

Such an honor to be here on behalf of our organization, Montgomery and Prince George's Hospice.

And we've served this community for nearly 45 years.

We serve all patients, eligible patients, regardless of ability to pay, which is more important than ever in these times we're living through.

So I I can't describe hospice better than what a beautiful introduction.

But basically, our team brings expert care and kindness and compassion to the bedside.

We bring light on the darkest nights to people who are facing serious and terminal illness.

And we bring help and hope to the people who love and care for them.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you for this beautiful recognition that you value and celebrate hospice and palliative care.

So thank you.

Lovely.

Thank you.

Thank you for coaching me.

I'll take it so much more than calling.

Wow.

I appreciate what you do so much.

So I know I talked last month about uh um indigenous people, but uh this upcoming November this month, we're actually celebrating Native American Heritage Month.

And it's important because as we often say during our meetings, we are not the indigenous people of this land.

It's important not only to give respect to those who were here before us, but understand their heritage and how much they've influenced us and our society and what they've given to us.

Whereas Native Americans were first to carve out cities, domestic crops, and establish great civilizations.

And now, therefore, the mayor and council of Rockville, Maryland, to hereby proclaim November 28th, 2025 as Native American Heritage Day, and November 2025 as Native American Heritage Month, and urge all members of the community to commemorate this month with appropriate programs and activities.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

Thank you.

Councilmember Sean Seconds, all those in favor, please raise your hand and say.

So I don't believe we have anybody here to accept the proclamation, but um I know we'll post it online uh so everybody knows about it.

Yep.

Good evening.

How are y'all doing?

Good.

Thanks for coming out.

It's such a beautiful day outdoors.

Sometimes I wish we can have our meetings outside in another lifetime, we'll see.

I'll thank you for the honor of being able to present or speak on the proclamation declaring November as pancreatic cancer awareness month.

I stood up here last year, about a year ago to do this proclamation and inform folks that lost my grandfather to pancreatic cancer about five years prior to that.

Within weeks of given the proclamation last year, my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.

And within a few months, she passed.

Um thankfully was peaceful.

We had Montgomery Hospice work with us.

Y'all got us in the hospital dead bed in one day.

That was that was a pretty impressive, in addition to all the services, the late-night calls, bedside visits.

Um but needless to say, it was it was surprising to us.

She was 67 years old.

Um medical history takes no medications.

She had actually less gray hair on her head than me.

I'm verified that when we cut it uh for for um when she began chemotherapy.

She did several rounds and the side effects were were significant.

Um so a decision was made to focus on the quality of life.

Uh she did that with us.

Despite uh some would argue being given a kind of a raw deal.

She had three, she was a uh public school teacher, so she had um a lesson planned not only for her celebration of life, but also for how we should um think about not only her, but just how to move through life.

I think it's particularly relevant now.

The first she said is keep it positive.

There's so much going on, particularly now.

A lot of doom and gloom, but she she strived to keep it positive.

Second, keep on living.

Um it can be difficult.

I think one of the things that when you care for somebody, be it a young one or a somebody with a disability or terminal illness.

You gotta make sure you're taking care of yourself.

I think you'll have a respite care um option as well to give caregivers care.

As I tell you, you have to put your, you know, your your mask on first, like they say on the airplanes, and then you can put on the masks of others.

The final part was nothing she said, but something she embodied, and that's keep on taking care of each other.

And certainly in the context of dealing with a you know terminal illness, it's it's important to have a team of folks.

So I thank everybody here, city staff, colleagues, uh, for all the support.

And I'll now read the proclamation and summarize it as follows.

Whereas pancreatic cancer awareness month is recognized each November as a time to bring understanding and response to the disease and the individuals and families affected by it.

Now, therefore, the mayor and council of the city of Rockville, Maryland do hereby proclaim November 2025 as pancreatic cancer awareness month, and call upon people of Rockville to join their fellow residents in the community and across the region to participate in raising awareness and moving towards finding a cure.

With that, Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

All right.

And I believe we have somebody here to accept it.

Yes, sir.

Good to see you.

How are you doing?

Awesome, awesome.

There you go, sir.

Thank you.

Well, good evening, Madam Mayor, Council.

I accept this with honor and dignity, dignity.

Um, I recently went through a battle, my own battle with cancer.

Uh, so I'm back, I'm good.

But I want I want to raise I I am so honored to receive this this evening because I want us to talk about cancer like we talk about the common cold.

I want to remove the stigma of cancer.

You know, we're we're getting closer to a cure.

And trust me, I I I went through a battle, like Dr.

Miles said, I went through a battle battle with uh chemo, but I'm so glad, I'm so thankful for my Lord and Savior that I'm here.

Okay.

And and you know, just his blessing, his mighty, you know, honor and blessing over my body.

And and although I didn't have pancreatic cancer, mine was the result of H.

pylori.

I had ulcers that became cancerous, and I didn't know that.

So I want to talk about it.

Feel free to come.

Anybody come and talk to me.

I I really I since I since I've been back to work for the last two months now, I've recommended or referred three people to my oncologist and two people to my GI doctor.

So it is working.

I I am a vessel.

Yeah, I'm gonna talk about this until I transition from Niz Earth in with the hopes that we we we just find a cure for this uh uh disease.

And again, I'm honored.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

You too.

Thank you.

Thank you, Shannon.

Only in Rockville can conversations about hospice and pancreatic cancer be so hopeful and inspiring and positive.

So thank you for everyone for that.

That was wonderful.

Um I am moving on to give the proclamation for um Veterans Day.

Uh whereas America has long stood as a beacon of hope and opportunity, and few embody that spirit here at home and beyond our borders, more than the members of our armed forces, army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard are part of an unbroken chain of brave patriots who have served our country with honor and made tremendous sacrifices so that we may live free.

And now, therefore, the mayor and council of the city of Rockville, Maryland, do hereby proclaim November 11th, 2025 as Veterans Day, and encourage all people of Rockville to recognize the valor and the sacrifice of our veterans through appropriate ceremonies and observances, and by pausing for two minutes of silence for our nation's veterans.

Thank you.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

Thank you.

And I believe we have a member of the American Legion to come accept.

And hopefully you'll tell us about our celebration we have on Veterans Day here in Rockville as well.

I can do it if you'd like me to.

Hi, thank you, Madam Mayor and Council.

I accept this proclamation on behalf of the American Legion and all veterans.

My name's Tim.

I'm an Army veteran.

Uh former Army Chemical Officer.

I retired as a major.

I'm also a member of American Legion Post 86, right here in Rockville.

Uh I enjoy participating in Rockville's Memorial Day ceremony as part of the Color Guard and the Veterans Day Ceremony upcoming next week.

The Color Guard will be there on Veterans Plaza at 11 on the 11th.

Welcome everyone to attend.

Veterans Day is a time to honor all who have served in this nation's military, a day to honor all veterans, regardless of which branch of the military, when they served, where they served, and peacetime, wartime, or in conflict, or how long they served.

I remember all the men and women who have served this nation, our armed forces since the beginning of our nation.

Veterans are a diverse group.

Everyone has their own unique experience, whether it's Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, Space Force.

Everyone has a different story.

And within each of those services are different specialties, which contributes to the diversity of the veterans' experiences and who they are.

Veterans make sacrifices.

They sacrifice time away from family, deployments for training, deployments for combat, deployments for school, harsh conditions, whether that be in training, conflict, or in war.

They risk life and limb.

Some make the ultimate sacrifice.

Some put they put themselves in very difficult circumstances.

So we thank veterans for their service, their commitment to protecting and defending the United States at home and abroad.

Thank you.

Okay.

So it's my pleasure to read the proclamation for America Recycles Day.

So in the latest statistics available in 2018, the United States generates more than 292 million tons of municipal solid waste, or MSW, 50% of it going to landfills, more than 4.9 pounds per person per day.

Of the MSW generated, approximately 69 million tons were recycled, and 25 million tons were composted.

But more can still be done.

Closer to home, the diversion of refugees that was otherwise be incinerated.

It reduces Rockville's impact on Ramabone's air, water, and land.

Rockville is continually seeking to improve recycling rates.

Since 2009, Rockville has offered a single stream recycling program for its residents to encourage recycling.

Rockville's current recycling rate is 41%.

Up from 30% in 2009, but not yet reaching the target of 50% or more.

Recognizing America Recycles Day helps raise public awareness about ways to reduce waste and encourages residents to learn more about what materials are recyclable in Rockville.

More information about waste and recycling is posted on the city website.

We're asked to highlight the environmental and community benefits of recycling.

Businesses, industries, government agencies, nonprofit organizations, and individuals have joined together to celebrate America Recycles Day.

And will encourage their employees, customers, membership, and residents to pledge to reduce waste and buy more recycled content products.

And now, therefore, the mayor and council of Rockville, Maryland, do hear bar proclaim November 15th, 2025 as America Recycle Stay in the City of Rockville.

And call upon all residents to recycle as much as possible and spread the word about the need to reduce waste by reusing, recycling, composting, and buying recycled products.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

Councilman Miles Seconds, all those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

And I believe we have Erica Shinguar.

Rockville's Chief of Environmental Management.

Council Jansen.

Thank you for recognizing America Recycles Day.

And thank you for all the wonderful proclamations and meaningful proclamations this evening.

Just two quick announcements for Americal Recycle East Day.

We're opening our fourth compost drop-off station in Potomac Woods Park.

It opened last week, so we welcome you to Compost.

Have them available at the Senior Center, the Waffgab maintenance facility, Twin Brook, and now Potomac Woods.

And also along with Montgomery County, there is a paper, a community paper shredded event on America Recycles Day, November 15th.

It's a Saturday from 10 to 2 p.m.

Residents can bring up to two or five uh paper bags of papers to recycle and shredded.

So all your personal documents you can safely dispose there.

So thank you very much.

So pictures.

All right, take two.

Um just last week in front of City Hall, we held a vigil, and we had people from all over the city, including members of the mayor and council, standing together, holding candles and remembering those who have been lost as pedestrian victims.

What is interesting is just about every single person as we went around the circle knew someone who has either been killed or seriously injured by pedestrian violence.

And it's something that we need to understand is critical, and it's the reason why this city has put together vision zero, because until we get to zero, it's not good enough.

Just one pedestrian accident that occurs is a problem.

And we're not going to stop and we're not going to give up until we get to zero.

Whereas the global status report on road safety, launched by the World Health Organization in December 2018 found that road traffic injuries are now the leading cause and killer of people age five to twenty nine.

Now, therefore, the mayor and council of the city of Rockville, Maryland, do hereby proclaim November 20, November 16th, 2025 as World Day of Remembrance of Road traffic victims, and encourage everyone in Rockville to acknowledge the victim of road traffic incidents and to take safety precautions when driving on or crossing roads.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

Do we have a second?

Council and Miles Seconds.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

So now I'd like to invite uh Kathleen Kleiman, who has been one of the strongest advocates for pedestrian safety here in Rockville to say a few words and accept the proclamation.

Thank you.

Well, um he said most of what I would think to say, with the only exception.

Um the city has a commission for for transportation mobility and advise the city mayor and council uh on these kind of issues of how to improve the safety in the city, how to improve the the motion and the pleasure of moving around in our community.

Um and then there's also uh advisory task forces.

One is for specifically for the pedestrian issues, and another one for bicycle issues.

And we need more help on all of these issues.

We need more ideas, we need more stories, we need to be more aware.

And um, I'm out to recruit if uh anybody wants to jump on board, somebody who has a real sense of mission in in on these kinds of issues.

So I'm looking for that.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for this recognition.

Okay.

Thanks, Lady.

Good evening, everyone.

It is my pleasure to read the proclamation uh for small business Saturday on November 29th.

Small businesses are the backbone of our local community and our local economy, and they provide a number of opportunities and job creation for our community members.

Whereas the City of Rockville, Maryland celebrates our local small businesses and the contributions they make to our local economy and community.

According to the United States Small Business Administration, there are currently 34.8 million small businesses in the United States, which represent 99.9% of all businesses with employees in the United States.

And now, therefore, the mayor and council of the city of Rockville, Maryland, do hereby proclaim November 29th, 2025, Small Business Saturday, and urge the Rockville community and communities across the country to support small businesses and merchants during this day and throughout the year.

Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation.

And we do have someone, uh Ms.

Mars Marsley B.

King, founder and creator director of M VK Scarf Jewelry and Sustainable Accessories.

Good evening, everyone.

I'm so nervous to be here today.

But I'm so honored and I have a lot of emotions, so I'm sorry.

So as I migrated in Brazilian um female founder, uh today's a big step of my life when I'm started a business um six years ago.

And uh I listen a lot of noise outside around me, then I don't have enough English, I don't have enough money, I don't know America's a way to do a business here.

But I know for my country, I have a passion to create to recreate as a sustainable fashion accessories.

I know the business.

I have the conviction, and I don't give up.

So I'm so happy and glad to be here today, recognized by MWBC Shop Local Rockville after giving me uh uh opportunity to be at the city.

He showed my passion, show the viso of the the business, what have behind the business as a mission as a recycle, as we can uh take care more of a planet, collaborate with so it's such amazed time to be here today.

I have to say thank you, Rockview.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Marilyn can hug them like a family.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ada.

Uh the Rockville.

Uh good evening, Rockville.

Uh today we have a great honor to celebrate a very special team of Rockville.

Today we have a great honor to celebrate a very special team of Rockville.

The city of Rockville has the Latino Youth Development Team.

And they are incredible.

I have to say that they're not only getting recognized today for making it to regionals, but they won.

They won this weekend, in fact.

And the team tied the first playoff game won one on ten twenty-six.

And then they won won their second playoff game just this past weekend for a total of five-three to win the championship.

The last time they've been able to make it to regionals was in 2017.

So we just appreciate all of their dedication.

We also appreciate staff.

This is not just your ordinary football team.

I say football, soccer.

And they are also college bound.

They're getting uh support and services to uh make it on their journey so that they don't only excel sports wise, but they excel in their character and they excel in their academics and they're providing opportunities for their family.

And so we're very, very proud.

And gracias a su familia Avenido.

So uh with that, I'll get started on recognizing some of our winners, ganadores, and uh then we'll move on.

My colleagues are gonna join me, so please bear us with us as we split this up.

Okay.

It is an honor for the mayor and council to recognize these members of the Latino Youth Development Program Soccer Team.

We congratulate you on making it to the finals of the high school Sam's Select Select League.

The team's record for the regular season uh is incredible, and you've won the last game.

The team has worked hard on and off the field, and this is the first time the team is able to make it this far since 2017.

This council is very, very proud to celebrate this remarkable accomplishment.

We first welcome Eduardo Acosta.

Welcome Herman Chaparro.

Oh, okay.

His brother, his brother, what's can I say?

So we have a Herman R.

Chapado and a Hedman e Chapados.

Welcome.

And now we welcome Brian Campos.

Congratulations.

Okay.

All right, here we go.

Next up we have Edson Kanchanya.

Congratulations.

And Eric Castillo.

Congratulations.

Javier Claros.

Congratulations.

And Yosera Correas.

Congratulations.

There you go.

Jose Delgado.

Congratulations.

Maurice Flores Gaten.

Congratulations.

And Jonathan Gray.

Congratulations.

I feel standing around all these young guys, my eyes starting to work better.

I don't know about the good looks, though.

I got to work on that.

Good looking bunch here.

I will call up Paulo Gonzalez.

Congrats.

Let's see.

Manuel Lopez.

And Vilmar uh Nolasco.

Congrats.

Next we next we have Giovanni Parada.

Congratulations.

Brian Ramos.

Congratulations.

Congratulations.

All right.

Um I got the pleasure pleasure actually of watching their final.

And the only reason I recognize the names are from the coaches yelling at for ninety minutes.

So it was a phenomenal game.

Literally, this is a team full of Maradonas.

Um the good part of Maradona.

Um let's see.

Uh we have there we go.

Samuel Ramos.

All right, next, uh Saul Rodriguez Soriano.

I could have folded this for you guys.

Sorry about that.

Congratulations.

And last but not least on my list, Nelson Rodriguez.

Congrats.

And next we have Abraham Castro.

And finally, Valmori Moran.

Come on on.

Come on down.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much to Mayor and City Council for this recognition.

Um, we are beyond proud of our boys.

Uh they worked hard in the summer and it paid off for this season.

Uh and they worked hard, not just in soccer, but in their grades, also improving in school, and we're just so proud of this accomplishment, and I know that they are their parents are proud, but they're also excited to see this recognition.

Oh, sorry, there's recognition um for their children.

So thank you so much.

So you all face me over.

This is the largest picture.

I think it is.

Can you see us at all?

Kathleen, can you see us?

We're so proud of all of our uh champions in Rockville.

I think uh there's so much going on in the news when you can celebrate wins like this and positivity among our youth, it is worth it every day and twice on Sunday.

So we're so thankful.

Uh and we know that we're gonna continue to see a lot of pay positivity out of these winners.

Um I also just want to say thank you to all for uh you know allowing us to create some awareness, whether it's pancreatic cancer or what's going on in municipal government.

It's a chance to hear about important things that are going on.

Maybe it makes you think about getting a screening or reaching out to someone in hospice or getting involved in a nonprofit.

There's so much to do.

Um, and we appreciate all of you for celebrating with us.

We are going to take a brief break and we'll be back at 6:30.

Good evening, and welcome back, Rockville.

Today is November 3rd, 2025, and we're beginning our meeting 26-25.

We'll begin with our agenda review, Miss Sarah Taylor Pharrell.

Madam Mayor and Council members, there are no changes for the uh agenda this evening.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

And welcome Mr.

Mahalik City Manager's report.

Mayor Ash and members of City Council, good evening.

Mayor, you talked about positivity earlier this evening.

You know what?

I'm just gonna roll with that theme if that's okay.

So some really good news to report.

Um we continue to move forward with a number of our sustainability initiatives, and last week we got some really good news.

We are now gonna be the recipient of an 800,000 grant.

I always repeat the big numbers.

You guys know that an $800,000 grant to install four publicly available fast charging EV stations at our swim and fitness center.

We're really excited about that.

Erica Shingara is here.

I'm sure she applied for that grant, and she won another one, as she usually does.

So that's a really cool initiative, and I'm sure um motoring public will enjoy using that station.

Um secondarily, I mean, we've heard a lot over the past several weeks about SNAP and the SNAP benefits, and I think we heard a bit of a reprieve um over the weekend, but just know I heard from a number of you about what can we do for our residents that have SNAP benefits, whether there's um a bit of a renewal of that or not.

And I'm pleased to tell you that our wreck and parks department made sure that at the Saturday farmers market that people who do have SNAP benefits um could take advantage of that at our farmers' market.

And that was not only for this weekend, but we're gonna continue that throughout the whole month of November until the end.

So I'm pleased to share that with you and the team moved really quickly and innovatively on that to take care of people.

We appreciate that.

And lastly, I'll just say it's a season of giving, and we have a number of different initiatives that our residents can take advantage of.

There are their city-sponsored events, there's a Thanksgiving food drive going on right now.

There's also a December toy and book drive.

We'd love for people to participate.

Keep in mind that people can either provide goods, they can make a monetary contribution, or more than anything else, they can just simply spread the word to others.

So we hope people take advantage of that and go on to um our website and look for opportunities to give or share the giving spirit.

That's all I have, Mayor.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for the positive news.

We appreciate it.

Um I just wanted to note uh that Rockville Reports includes a number of nonprofits listed.

If folks want to get involved and be supportive in the community, please check out Rockville Reports.

Um I also want to acknowledge that several faith-based institutions have also been stepping up with uh food drives.

I know Chrysler Fiscal Church has food all week.

Mount Calvary uh has food tomorrow and several others across the city.

Um and then lastly, I just want since you're talking about federal support, just wanted to note um that the Maryland was business center in collaboration with Rockville Economic Development Inc.

launched Founders Rising, and it's a program to help federal employees who want to own their own businesses uh join an entrepreneurship training program.

So please check that out as well.

Councilmember Van Grack.

Thanks, Madam Mayor.

I just have one question for the city manager.

I know that um over this past weekend over Halloween, there was a scare out to the community with regard to a report from the Rockville Police Department with regard to um needles found in candy, but I also understand that due to the tireless and dedicated work of the Rockville Police Department investigated team.

There's an update which while s also tragic um is potentially less scary to the community.

Could you potentially give us an update?

Yeah, I'm pleased to do that.

First of all, I just want to acknowledge and thank you for calling out the Rockville Police Department.

They really were very responsive to that concern out in the community.

They investigated a number of witnesses.

And I'm pleased to tell you that they ended the scare by learning that it is an unfortunate prank.

So it's sad that it's a prank.

It's sad that someone would stoop so well as to do that.

And yet our police department was able to uncover that very quickly and to put those fears to bed.

So thanks for asking about it.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

And I'm glad that we had a safe Halloween.

So thank you for that as well.

We will now be moving on to community forum.

This is a chance for us to hear ideas and questions and concerns from our community.

We invite folks to address the mayor and council, but please speak in a civil and courteous manner.

And also be respectful of each other.

Each person is allowed three minutes, and we ask that you stick to the three minutes allowed.

There is a time clock in front of you.

You will hear an audible beep when your time has expired.

Please state your name and whether you live in the city of Rockville for the record.

First, welcome James Pontius.

Hi, uh Rockville Mayor and Council.

Uh I'm James Pontius.

I live on uh South Thamburen Street here in Rockville.

Uh I come to you tonight to talk about um essentially um a basketball play area that uh potentially could be no more in the West End.

Uh a number of kids, neighborhood kids have fun there, but there's some facts.

Um, and I'm coming to you to try and uh see if we can get a compromise or something to help out their community because the kids uh definitely had a lot of fun.

I submitted a packet uh with some photos uh that had the details of names, addresses, a little more facts.

Uh, I have hard copies if anyone needs them.

But ultimately, um your help, whatever you can do, have a look.

Um, I'll start by saying when driving around Rockville, you see a lot of driveways.

Maybe you've seen some of these driveways on side yards.

Maybe some of these side yards have uh patios attached to them, maybe some basketball hoops, maybe permanent, maybe portable.

Well, you're allowed to do that by rights throughout the city without a permit, except if you live in the West Montgomery Avenue Historic District.

Still don't need a permit, but you have to get a certificate of approval before doing something like that.

Recently, last week, there was a hearing on a retroactive certificate of approval, which was denied.

There's a basketball court already built.

Unfortunately, they did not get their certificate ahead of time, but the options for the homeowners were remove or relocate the basketball hoop and play area, which is prohibitively expensive.

There are a number of mitigation mitigation options uh that were not really offered uh to them.

But if you guys could help however you see fit, uh, and if I know you guys are very busy, um, please see what you can do.

But in effect, um, this is gonna result in a ban on this family, their kids, the homeowner, future homeowners from ever putting in something like this again by having a denial.

I brought a prop, uh, if you'll indulge me, hopefully, to drive the point home.

So this is an apple pie.

Kids playing basketball in a family yard is as American as Apple Pie.

I bought this pie in the West Montgomery Avenue Historic District at Petite Del Say.

All the photos I submitted are of buildings and properties within the West Montgomery Historic Avenue Historic District.

Some of them have new driveways that were endorsed by city staff and approved within the last three to five years.

They all got their slice of pie.

If someone cuts in line to get a slice of pie, you don't say you are permanently banned from getting pie, your kids will never get pie.

You send them to the back of the line, and when they get back up, maybe maybe maybe they'll get one.

Please, please help.

There's a ticking clock on me talking tonight as well as on this issue.

See what you can do.

Any consideration, any thought, any any open to a world of possibilities.

But these kids really really enjoy their time there.

Um, and do it for the kids.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome Tiffany Greyer.

Do we have Tiffany Greyer?

Okay.

Welcome, Jeffrey Land.

Good evening, Council members, and uh Madam Mayor.

This is my first time speaking publicly, and so I'm a little bit nervous.

But I want to thank you for the time that you allow me to come on share my issue with you.

What it's about is uh may seem like a small thing, but for me, um privacy rights and inclusion are really important, and it's about the parking meters.

So in the parking meters, not all of them, but a lot of the parking meters, you could only pay with a an app, as you guys probably already know.

You've seen those.

Um the problem with that is though it's um not everybody has or uses or knows how to use those apps, you know.

Me included, I'm still learning.

And so we have an issue of financial inclusion, also privacy.

When you use your phone app, you know, it's attached to GPS and it's tracked.

There's a privacy issue as well.

Also, economic freedom, you know, the freedom of choice.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with it, but um, there is a payment choice act in the House, the federal in the Congress, it's in the House, it's past the House.

It is uh before the Senate now.

Um I won't name the representatives and senators uh sponsoring that bill.

But um the reason for the purpose of this act is to protect the rights of the unbanked and the underbanked, of which there are 25 million Americans in that scenario, and I don't know how many are in Rockville, but I'm sure there's a good number.

So we need uh to protect a viable and inclusive payment option, and also for emergencies, you know.

So there's a couple states, I'm just giving a couple of examples.

New Jersey and Massachusetts already passed this a similar act, a state act.

Um Michigan, Illinois, California, and Louisiana passed similar acts as well, but in more expanded versions.

Even in Mexico, the Supreme Court in Mexico confirmed it was a constitutional right to use legal tender.

And so the movement and these in these laws, I believe is is worded as retail.

Um retail and food establishments.

But the thing is, if you can't better watch the clock next time.

No worries.

Welcome and congratulations on your first testimony.

We appreciate it.

Thank you.

Welcome, Dreva.

Diego Kamar.

Um this one's gonna go a little tough because it's not very organized.

And I want to talk about you know, a lot of things, but here it goes again.

Um thank you, honorables Mayor Ashton, for leading and presiding on this open democracy forum.

Now I pledge allegiance to the flag of British America, USA America, MAGA America First America.

I do not pledge allegiance to this already seceded Latin America and submersive Latin America, Central America, illegals, un undocumented, infiltrated into county government, which is already seceded to Central and Latin America.

I don't pledge allegiance to that.

Now, I'm a full-time caregiver to my mom.

I also set up some LLCs, um, and I only get three minutes here.

And so we have a lot of complications right now.

So this is not as organized as I like it to be.

And again, I only get three minutes.

Last week I said when I was talking about uh fair fair housing discrimination.

I said that um I have respect for Malcolm X.

I need to clarify that, and I'm not gonna be scared to talk about any issue.

Um what I would say, that gentleman, very articulate, an intellect, presentable, handsome, if you can say that, or required.

So I do have a level of admiration for Malcolm X.

And I still believe that MLK statue there is kind of wacko, all there by himself.

Really wacko statue.

We should get more of those civil rights folks there.

Now, um, regarding this Chris Rock business, those people that wouldn't discuss with me about uh uh militant black nationalism, and I don't want to keep respect repeating that and disrespecting.

Um I want to talk about again this Latin American Central American illegal undocumented community that has abused me and my family, criminalized against us.

I want to let you all know y'all ain't doing us any favor here by working.

You all make above minimum wage, you always have.

Um India, part of the British seat of the British Empire.

Uh you have to think of our country like Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico is a small little island, some call it a garbage island, but my country is in those days, in those centuries.

So we're part of the founder citizenry as it evolves.

Thank you very much.

Just one last line the founder citizenry, English settlers, European settlers, and African American slavery literature.

Thank you very much.

We appreciate your time.

I'm sorry about that.

No problem.

Thank you.

Welcome Pat Rever.

Well, I'm here again.

I live in Newmark Commons.

I welcome this opportunity.

Uh it's a great opportunity for democracy the way you conduct your meetings and you do listen to us.

I know that.

Um, I just wanted to um uh say that we in Newmark Commons, we appreciate the response we've received so far to our invitation to visit the plot of land we are worried about.

And uh we hope that more of you know you are welcome to come visit so you can see what we are talking about in all our emails.

Um we know you are busy, and thank you for all you do.

I've left our contact details with the staff.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That concludes the list of those who have signed up in advance.

Would anyone else like to speak?

Okay.

Uh thank you to everyone who has participated.

Uh, just note that I know we have some emails that staff will be following up on.

And uh we appreciate the opportunity to offer opportunities for everyone to be able to share their their views and their feedback, and we are committed to being an inclusive city.

Well, now be moving on.

We'll now be moving on to a special presentation.

We welcome Susan Jenkins, CEO, Arts and Humanities Council of Montgomery County, Maryland, to give a special presentation regarding the development of the county's new cultural plan.

Welcome.

Thank you very much.

And I also want to acknowledge our Rockville City Lead, Ann O'Dow, Culture, Arts and History Program Manager.

Welcome, Ann.

Thank you so much, Mayor Ashton, and it's wonderful to see you.

And Council members, thank you so much for having me this evening.

I'm very excited about this presentation.

My name is Susan Jenkins, and I'm the CEO of the Arts and Humanities Council of Montgomery County.

I'm a 37-year resident of um Rockville.

And my kids went to Julius West Middle School and uh Richard Montgomery, and even worked for the city of Rockville.

So we have a long-standing relationship with the city, and I'm very, very excited to be working on a cultural plan that I know that the city will also benefit from.

So we have uh we started work on the cultural plan about 18 months ago now, and we have gone through a couple of different phases.

So I'm gonna just update you now as to where we are.

I have a script, so I'm gonna stay on it so that I don't go too far afield.

So um here we are.

We are working with MNC PPC, Maryland National Capital Park and Planning Commission, and the work we're doing is dovetailing with Thrive 2050, which is the master plan developed by MNCPPC and ratified by Montgomery County Council.

So what drove us to think about a new cultural plan is that the last cultural plan for Montgomery County was done in 2000 and ratified in 2001.

Wowee, we are a very, very, very different county than we were at that time.

And so, as from my perch, as I began looking around, thinking about what we would need to do to really do something impactful, and at the same time, our strategic plan for the Arts and Humanities Council um was ending, it became clear to me that we needed to do something a bit more than another uh cultural plan for those of that for those of you who don't know about the Arts and Humanities Council.

For those of the for those of you who don't know about the Arts and Humanities Council, we're designated local arts agency in Montgomery County, Maryland.

We're the largest designated local in the state.

There are 24 locals, and we are the largest of those.

So as we began to think about the cultural plan, our framing question was how can Montgomery County help its residents lead culturally rich lives and best support community-backed priorities through arts, culture, and the humanities.

So we did a lot of pre-resear for the plan, and we landed on some information from the community that told us that residents were most interested in these three pillars: belonging, cultural resilience, and intersectionality.

Yeah.

So for belonging, we wanted to create a community where everyone belongs and can lead culturally specific and rich lives.

So our charge is to create a new cultural plan for Montgomery County, which means coming up with a vision and a roadmap that tells us how the local government should support arts and cultural activities with funding programs, laws, and regulations in a way that helps achieve goals that are important to the community.

So this framing question that I first showed you helped us get closer to that.

So based on AHCMC's prior in-depth community research, these three pillars, belonging, cultural sector, and resilience helped us figure where a community where everyone belongs that can lead culturally rich lives, helped think about how artists and our cultural communities can thrive, and how we could use arts, culture, heritage, and creative expression to help solve community challenges.

And here is really the crux of the work we're trying to do.

So the purpose of the outreach was to gain input on the current context for arts, culture, and humanities in the county, how that context applies to each pillar, and what the needs of the plan should respond to.

We also wanted to hear from many voices with a special emphasis on engaging the people and groups most likely to be affected by the plan, but least likely to say have say in formal planning processes.

We identified these stakeholders and workshops that many people have our participated in last fall.

We held pop-ups, cultural preserves, engagement events right here in downtown Rockville.

We presented to boards, commissions, and classes.

We distributed a community survey.

We've supported grassroots community conversations.

Each one of those events targeted specific groups of stakeholders.

In total, we've reached more than 2,000 people with 86 engagements over the last seven months.

Today I'm going to describe each of these outreach modes and what we learned from them.

Then we'll wrap up with an overview.

So we did brief 15 to 20 minute presentations to boards, commissions, and classes across the county, government officials and agencies representing Montgomery County.

We also presented to a section of Montgomery County's 90 boards and commissions, regional service center advisory boards, boards for our grantees and community organizations, several of which are right here in Rockville, to businesses, to philanthropy, as well as distinct ethnic affinity and culturally specific groups, racial and ethnic communities, specific immigrant communities, religious communities, LBDQIA communities, disability communities, and we presented to geographic and regional communities, libraries to older adults, to students, and to youth.

Our goal was to build awareness about the plan and engage their help to reach diverse constituencies.

From February and September 2025, these presentations we explored the purpose and process for the cultural plan, invited feedback, and encouraged the boards to connect the constituencies they represent with, inclusive opportunities for participation.

So in this picture, you'll see cultural preserves.

There are pop-up creative engagement events that we held at festivals, markets, and gatherings created by our consultant team and DC based artist Holly Bass.

She's pictured on the oh, in the middle of this.

Our goal was to meet people where they were to get regular residents' point of view with a racially diverse and multilingual team.

We used everyday canvassing, who supported in hosting events and thank you to youth action media to help document it.

We did nine events, one in every council district, plus two extras from March through June.

We received more than 250 responses.

We also hosted community conversations.

We engaged grassroots community connectors from different sections of Montgomery County to lead small group conversations with people they know.

This activity was yet another really intentional way to capture the voices of groups that are not always at the table.

We also recruited hosts that have connections and relationships to the priority stakeholder groups.

These conversations took place among racial and ethnic communities, immigrant, religious, disability, older adult communities.

We spoke with upcounty residents, Ethiopian residents, separate conversation for Ethiopian artists, upcoming conversations with the Jewish community.

So we've really tried to cover the waterfront as we think about who needs to be included in this cultural planning work.

We provided facilitation training, written guidance, and lists of questions, and volunteer participants could also assemble questions in their groups.

We've had 17 conversations, but there's still communities eager to host, and we welcome their input even as we begin to move ahead with analysis.

We also hosted a youth town hall, which was really quite dynamic.

And that youth town hall gave us an opportunity to speak to young people who were middle schoolers who helped us really think about what was important to them for the cultural plan.

We've also conducted many, many interviews with county agencies and with high-influence stakeholder groups to help us.

We also conducted an online survey.

We made several efforts to increase inclusivity and response rate.

We translated the survey into six languages Amharic, Chinese, French, Spanish, Korean, and Vietnamese.

We offered a lottery for 100 gift cards so that we could increase participation.

We did transit advertising.

We posted advertisements in ethnic media like the Korean Times, El Tiempo, CCACC websites, and we created a social media toolkit so that we could be certain to engage people in this activity.

County Executive Elrich also amplified our voice by sending out information about the survey to 550,000 residents.

So we had intercept surveys on iPads so that we could make certain that we were doing everything we could to let people know that their voice mattered.

We also conducted focus groups with the goal of hearing from arts, culture, and humanities practitioners about the current context.

The focus groups were arts and cultural organizations, BIPOC serving and culturally specific organizations, arts educators, creative businesses, and individual arts and cultural practitioners.

We did that work from June to August, both in in-person and virtual, and we facilitated group conversations around a series of questions about that, about how their work is supported in the county.

So what are our takeaways?

A few really wonderful things.

People throughout the county government and the cultural sector see the value of arts and culture as a way to connect, solve problems, and enhance all kinds of other work.

But aside from public art programs, there's really no charge for it within the county's government.

So that gives us an opportunity for some policy enhancements.

We found uneven understanding across county government of the potential, not just for producing impact for their end users, but how they can conduct their businesses internally.

And even for those who are convinced there is not information on how to do it.

Further, arts and cultural is decentralized within the county government.

Arts and Humanities Council is the county's only funding arm, but does not have executive branch authority.

We also heard that it's hard to know where within the county government, outside of the Arts and Humanities Council to go to, to go or whom to talk to to get a project done, whether that's permitting finding a location or finding additional resources.

So the early takeaway for the plan is that we should institutionalize arts and culture within county government and give it some teeth.

There has been thought about making the Arts and Humanities Council an official part of county cabinet.

That would be an interesting change.

There's also calls to create policies that institutionalize the use of art and culture in county projects so that it's not an afterthought.

Hand in hand with that, professional development at a county level to do that, helping county staff work with artists, procurement, contracting, and scoping, and a way to look at dedicated funding sources, like perhaps enhancing the hotel tax or the utility fees.

So it's also important that we review county zoning to see what changes could be made to encourage, allow and reduce barriers to arts and cultural users.

So for belonging.

The themes were social connections, welcoming new arrivals, and making certain that there's equitable access to arts and culture all across the county.

Takeaways for the plan include continue and expand the wide variety of community events, advertise them widely, make classes affordable, make instruction opportunities for a wide wide range of ages, geographies, and disciplines.

This means support, not just funding, but capacity building and meeting those other needs we've heard about for the artists and organizations that offer those opportunities.

And I think it's really critical to think about cultural sector resilience.

There's a validation of arts and culture, that it's important and necessary in the county, that funding broader sources, a bigger pie, and perhaps even a closer relationship with the city of Rockville and other cities within the county to think about how to make the pie bigger.

How do we think about space, studio rehearsal as well as performance and display space?

We're really digging into survey results to see the degree to which housing affordability is also a factor.

Professional development for artists and nonprofits, the business side of the work that can make certain that people not only survive but thrive, right?

And information sharing for artists about opportunities, peer groups, about how artists are making it easier to find and hire other artists and work, earn living, not just a wage, but a living wage, and increase communication and clarity of communication.

So early takeaways here are how can the county elevate case making validation to promote importance of the value of arts and culture at the community, county, state, city level, and who are those key stakeholders to that we need to now engage.

We need to explore a potential of unused spaces all over the county for arts uses.

Think about peer affinity groups for all of us, business training and classes that help us integrate this important asset, and a county navigator to help us figure out what other opportunities they may be for us, right?

So we're currently in the envision phase of the plan.

We're wrapping up the discover phase, and that's all that research that I've just told you about.

And in this envision phase, our advisors have the important role of helping us develop a plan and policy recommendations that speak to the strategic opportunities, needs and priorities that surfaced from our community engagement and research activities.

So we are just at this place, this envision stage.

We're hoping that after we finish synthesizing all of the research that I've told you about, we'll be in a better place to offer the draft plan throughout the county.

You will see it.

And I encourage you all to opine.

You're in your personal, professional, and family input is critical to making this plan something that we can absolutely use throughout the county.

And I'm very, very excited to bring it to the city of Rockville.

The five-phase planning process is the design phase, the discover phase, the envision phase that we're in now.

Now we'll go to the confirmation stage, and then we'll celebrate.

So thank you very, very much for the opportunity to give you this overview of what we've been doing, where we're at, where we hope to go.

I'm very humbled and proud to be able to present this to you tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Ms.

Jenkins, and thank you to Miss O'Dell for helping to create this opportunity so you can present this to our entire community.

We appreciate the work of the county, and we know that uh our work can be even better coordinated than it is now, but it's great to see what you all have started together.

So thank you.

Thank you very, very much.

Okay.

Thank you again.

We'll now be moving on to agenda item nine, consent agenda.

We have a few items today.

A authorize the city manager to execute amendment number one between the city of Rockfall and the State of Maryland, Energy Administration to provide a no-cost extension of contract number 2024, 11420 S1 to March 27, 2026.

We have the approval of memory walk, which is a art and public proposal by artist Dinah Fisher, and that would be in the Lincoln Park community.

We have the C the authorization for the city manager to sign a supplemental agreement with the Maryland Department of Transportation, State Highway Administration for the Scott Veers Drive Shared Use Path Design Project, which is exciting.

That's been on our list for some time.

And then lastly, we have item D, approval of our minutes.

Colleagues, can we take them all together?

Does anyone have any questions to pull?

Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I'm happy to take them all.

I just had a bit of discussion after a motion is made.

Sure.

Would you like to make the motion?

I don't have my papers out of her, sorry.

I guess I can say approved.

I just need to move to approve the consent agenda items 9A, B, and C.

And D.

Yes, as read previously.

All right.

Councilmember Valeri, second, second.

All right.

Dr.

Mouse, please.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And I want to thank staff.

It was just about the memory wall piece.

It was a significant increase in price.

I thank staff for their information about why the cost differed.

It was again, y'all can correct me if I misspeak.

Increased cost of materials, increased cost of travel, and to get a sufficient community engagement.

So just want to make sure that we are minding the mining the money.

That's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I will note there was a lot of community engagement.

I want to thank Ms.

Odell for doing that work.

Prior to her being here, there was some things that had to be addressed and some healing in the community, and we appreciate the manner in which that was done.

And thank you to all the volunteers who uh stepped forward to help as well.

So I think it's going to be a beautiful project coming soon.

All right, colleagues.

There is a motion made and seconded.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

It passes.

Okay.

We'll now be moving on to agenda item 12, which is our work session.

Chapter, we'll be talking about chapter 4, Arts and Cultural Affairs Ordinance Revisions.

We welcome back Miss Anne O'Dell, who leads the culture, arts, and history as our program manager in the city manager's office.

This is the first time this project is being presented.

Welcome, Miss Odell.

Good evening, Madam Mayor.

Now I'm on.

Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council members.

I'm Anne Odell, Arts and Culture Program Manager in the City of Rockville.

And this evening I will present to you suggested revisions for Chapter 4, Arts and Cultural Affairs Ordinance.

During the presentation, I will provide background on the ordinance, the feedback I'm requesting from you.

Proposed revisions, next steps.

We'll then take your feedback and answer any questions you might have.

Chapter 4 was first adopted in 1975, 50 years ago, before public art and arts management were professional career tracks.

It establishes Articles 2 through 5, which are the Cultural Arts Commission, Incorporation of Works of Art and Public Architecture, publicly accessible art and private development, and art in public places.

Article 3, Incorporation of Works of Art and Public Architecture was adopted in 1978.

It's funded by 1% of the annual CIP appropriation for new CIP projects, and it allows for public art and city development projects.

Article 4, publicly accessible art and private development was adopted in 2001.

And it requires developers of qualifying projects to make a required contribution for publicly accessible art.

Article 5, Art in Public Places was adopted in 2003 and funded by one-tenth of 1% of the previous fiscal year's budget.

It allows for public art on city property.

These revisions are being proposed this evening to continue the implementation of the 2019 Arts and Culture Study recommendations.

One of the first recommendations the study made was to establish the Arts and Culture Program Manager position.

That position's been filled.

And the work plan for this position mirrors the recommendations of the study.

This is the first time that the city has had a professional arts manager on staff and looking at our future program development of how we will integrate arts and culture into our economic development, community development, and tourism to fulfill Rockville's potential as an arts destination is one of the top items on my work plan.

Also, our roles and processes need to reflect best practices.

The most recent article was adopted 22 years ago.

So we need to consider the practical implementation of the ordinance and how it has evolved over time.

And we need to formalize and professionalize our role in arts and culture development so that we can meet the best practices of the public art and arts management fields.

The feedback that is requested from you this evening is does the mayor and council support merging incorporating works of art and public architecture and art in public places articles into one public art program article.

The recommendations for the publicly accessible art and private development article and enhanced community engagement and public art program delivery.

Looking first at the structure of the ordinance, you see the current structure in the left-hand column, and on the right is the proposed structure that adds a preamble, combines articles three and five into one public art program article, which would be article three, and then renaming article four to simply public art and private development.

The preamble is being suggested to clarify the focus of work for the arts and culture program.

Historically, arts and culture programs have been produced by recreation and parks.

So with a new program area, newly dedicated staff to this program area.

It's an opportunity to really focus and clarify the scope of work for arts and culture programming.

Article 2 is suggested to move the process related language to the guidelines because guidelines are updated much more efficiently and effectively and easily than ordinances.

This helps us meet our community where our community is.

It helps us evolve with our community.

And we're also suggesting to shift budget and project management responsibilities to city staff because we now have staff capacity to do this work.

Article three, public art program.

We're suggesting merging AIPA and AIPP into one public art program.

In conversations with my colleagues who have managed these in the past, AIPP was created to help supplement the AIPA budget.

So in addition to this, both programs have similar purposes and administrative processes.

We need to clarify our roles in program administration to help us improve program delivery and follow those best practices in the public art field.

Moving process related language to guidelines for reasons previously discussed.

Suggests revising the definition of acceptable art and eligible sites because the field of public art has grown substantially over the last 22 years since the last article was adopted.

And we can expand our definition of eligible sites to not only be those properties owned by the city, also to expand to sites in the public realm.

Public art plan would replace the art in public places plan.

And that would be suggested as led by staff in consultation with the Cultural Arts Commission and approved by mayor and council.

So what does this look like practically speaking?

Our current processes are in the top row there.

Art and Public Architecture uses the art and public places process currently.

And Art and Public Places is led by the Cultural Arts Commission with staff assistance.

So the commission creates the implementation plan, the budget, the project plans, selects the sites, all with staff assistance.

The commission leads the art selection and then the artist designs the art, which is approved by mayor and council, and then the artwork is created and installed.

This does meet best practices in the public art field.

With staff leading the creation of the public art plan, it would guarantee us consistent delivery of community engagement.

Staff work across departments consistently with each other.

We understand the standards that mayor and council have set forth for us to engage with the community.

It also helps staff integrate public art and arts and culture programming into higher level city planning initiatives.

So we work in consultation with the Cultural Arts Commission to create that plan.

It's approved by Mayor and Council.

Mayor and Council would also approve contracts, $250,000 or more in alignment with procurement standards.

Staff would create and manage the project plans and processes in consultation with the public art committee of the Cultural Arts Commission.

And that public art committee would approve the final artwork design.

The artwork would be created and installed, and the mayor and council will be kept informed of projects by staff.

So practically speaking, the memory walk public art project that was approved this evening has been led by staff in consultation with the public art committee of the Cultural Arts Commission, and we've had a really good result with that.

So just a note on that one.

The community benefits of merging these two programs would we can officially combine the funding.

We're not suggesting to change the funding structures, we'll keep those in place, and integrate public art into broader city plans and projects.

We'll be able to respond to how the community evolves and meet the community where it is.

And we'll be able to partner with external counties, state agencies, and private entities to put public art in the public realm.

And that picture on the right there is an example of a public art program in Arlington County or a project in Arlington County that was done with Arlington County Public Art, Virginia Department of Transportation, and Vicky Scray Public Artists.

Suggested revisions for Article 4, public art and private development.

First, redefining acceptable art forms for reasons previously discussed.

Clearly defining publicly accessible.

The article currently allows for art to be installed indoors where it is not publicly accessible.

And we're asking to read to define roles in program administration for reasons previously discussed.

Also eliminating the option to remove the artwork.

Currently, the article allows for a developer to remove artwork they have installed on site at no cost to the developer after five years.

One to five years after installment, it may be removed.

There is, however, required contribution that's a sliding scale within those one to five years.

Also looking at changing the formula to determine the required contributions because our current formula is not in alignment with the larger public art field.

And also modifying the options for how contributions can be applied so that we have more equitable program and again align with the public art field.

First, looking at how we determine how much a developer is required to contribute to publicly accessible art.

The column on the left is an excerpt from the article for multifamily residential construction projects.

There's a footnote in the article that says this is annually adjusted based upon the builder's cost index published by McGraw Hill.

And then we refer people to the implementation manual that has the annually adjusted formula, which is on the right-hand side.

The current formula results in rates that are more than three times the amount in the article.

This creates confusion for our stakeholders.

It's not the best customer service that we can provide.

So we're suggesting updating our formula so that we match the standards of the public art field.

We're the only locality in the country of more than 90 localities with this type of formula for public art required contributions.

The most common are that developers are required to contribute 1% of the cost or the value of the development project, and there's often a maximum cap associated with that percentage.

So this leads us to our next slide.

Our current options for contributions are on the left-hand side.

The installation of art is the one that is chosen the most often.

The second monetary contribution to the city's Friends of the Arts Fund is the second most selected option.

The provision of an art space, such as a gallery or office space for arts and culture nonprofit has only been selected once, and that was a gallery space.

The provision of an arts-based infrastructure such as lighting or sound equipment has never been selected.

And making a monetary contribution to a qualifying arts nonprofit has been selected rarely, not often.

And we found that the organizations receiving those contributions are the ones in closest proximity to city staff.

So it's not really a wholly equitable program.

Or you can make a combination of any of the above.

We're suggesting simplifying this so that we are installing art on site or making a contribution to the city's public art program in the amount of 1% of the cost of the development not to exceed $300,000.

And that if they make the contribution to the public art program, it would go in the development in the area where the development is, so that developer can still benefit from having their property values positively impacted.

Community benefits would be that we now have public art that is permanent, it's publicly accessible, we eliminate confusion for our stakeholders, we have a more equitable program, and we align with best practices in the public art profession.

Next steps that we propose are to prepare a draft based on your guidance this evening and going forward.

That we would then present the draft to the Cultural Arts Commission, receive their comments and feedback, whatever incorporations we need to make, we will do that, um, have that reviewed, and then present the ordinance to mayor and council.

And at this time, we'll take your feedback.

I'll just uh pause and say thank you so much for this work.

Um I know the Cultural Arts Commission uh supported and worked very hard on the 2019 study, which then funded the position that you have, and we really appreciate uh the help in terms of professionalizing and keeping all this on track.

Um, Rockville does have incredible art.

Um, there are over 50 public art projects all over the city.

Um, and even more if you consider some of the Reckon Park specific uh inclusions.

Um, I did want to note for those who are interested, there is a virtual gallery online if you want to learn more about it.

Of course, going in person's best, um, but you can look at it from your computer.

Uh so I just wanted to give a shout out to that.

Uh, and then I just also wanted to note that we have a lot of uh arts nonprofits in the area.

We have performances across the city.

Art is is pervasive, and we want to continue to grow.

Uh, we also have um performing arts rescoes, resident uh art organizations, whether that's the ballet or the theater, uh, and uh they often are at Glenview, sorry, F.

Scott Fitzgerald Theater.

Um, so there's a there's a lot of robust work to make sure that we are um making an inclusive art environment, and it's also part of our history, our culture and storytelling.

So just want to give some of that preamble.

Um, I also wanted to acknowledge the Culture Arts Commission uh for their work, and I know you lead that.

Uh they meet monthly in case anyone's interested in listening and joining that in the future.

Um I will just start and say maybe we can this I know folks might have some general questions.

Um I appreciate the work that was done here.

Um I do want to find ways to uh hear some of the feedback of the Cultural Arts Commission before it goes to the ordinance, because they may, I know some of the people on it actually help craft some of the language which is now part of our law.

And so I think um, while we'll give some feedback today, I do want to hear from them before it actually gets to ordinances just to be effective effective and efficient with staff's time because I know legal has a lot to work on.

Um, and I think if we can get a robust feedback from them and that shared with us, that will help to make it even better product.

So I wanted to uh call that out.

Um there are some significant uh changes here.

Uh, and I just wanted to say I saw the benefits of combining the two public programs.

Is there any negative on that that you can think of?

I just always want to think about unintended consequences.

Not that I would see, because they already have similar purposes and administrative processes, so it would really be more acknowledging what the current reality is.

Okay, yeah, excellent.

And then in terms of the art and private spaces, I know that you're looking at changing that the formula.

What the same exclusions apply, I know that there is a carve out.

So if someone is building affordable units, Molly Price dwelling units or affordable housing, um, something specific to nonprofits that is not included.

Is that still planned to be included in the future that way that there's exclusions?

I would recommend maintaining their criteria that we currently have.

Okay, thank you.

I just wanted to also think about our affordable housing goals.

Um obviously there are ways to partner so we can make sure that every space is beautiful, but I know that the cost of uh developing that is something that sometimes inhibits projects, and I wouldn't want to inadvertently hurt those projects.

Um I have some other questions, but I want to pause and see what my colleagues have to say and if there are any other questions going forward.

But I just want to reiterate um very well done.

I would like feedback of the Cultural Arts Commission before it goes to our ordinance so that we could see and help maybe have a very effective and clean product.

Councilman Van Greg, and then Dr.

Miles.

Oh, Dr.

Miles.

Let's go, Dr.

Miles first, and then Councilman Van Grag.

Well, thank you both.

Uh thank you for the presentation.

Um I largely gonna echo what the mayor said and thanking you all and would also like to input uh cultural arts commission.

The only the main point I have on this one, um I guess it's point number two on the slide.

So two then subsection uh four, this notion.

Uh I think I my preference would be to make sure that mayor council still does have a role to remove things over time historically.

We found that there are pieces of art that aren't reflective of where we are now, and or perhaps need to be amended, need to have a historical footnote uh given the changing times and more ways.

Uh so that's the one thing that comes to mind, but I'll save the rest of my comments for later time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Van Greg.

Um just like my colleagues who um this is fabulous.

I think this is the type of direction we want to go.

There's no question, prior mayor and councils and this mayor and council truly understand that art in public places and how we address it through our code is important because we have numerous places throughout the city that art has truly brought life, brought color, brought culture to the city in many different ways.

But also, just like my colleagues have said, we're really making some significant changes and some of the impact that it could have could have interactions that we're not aware of.

And I know that just from the presentation, we also just had there's a lot of moving parts that are happening both in the county uh throughout Maryland and the city with regard to how art and public places are looking and how municipalities and governments are working together with the art community, the developing community, and the residential community.

So I would definitely like to see the results from the Cultural Health Commission or have their input with regard to some of the interactions that could come to play.

And if they have other suggestions, um I don't want to regurgitate and have a specific comment with regard to some of this feedback and then learn that there's an impact that we didn't realize that would alter our judgment.

Um that being said, with the I think this presentation is fantastic.

I think that the ideas and some of the um nuances that we're looking to correct and adjust seem to be the way that I think we do want to go.

But I think in getting into some of the detail and the feedback, I'd like to hear from what the commission has to say.

Thank you.

Councilmember Valeri.

I will just say ditto to uh my colleagues and Madam Mayor's uh comments so far.

Um and I especially want to highlight um councilmember Dr.

Miles' point, that was the first thing that popped in my head as well.

Um, that uh you know some things age like you know, milk left out on the counter.

Um, and I think we need to be able to um correct historical wrongs um and and be able to explain that because ultimately at the end of the day, we all have a fiduciary responsibility to the residents of the city um that we are making the best use of of their taxpayer dollars.

Um having said that, I will also say that my my other hat um is in uh a background in art and design, and I I know how um subjective a lot of art is and um can be very daunting to folks.

Um to that end, I would say that it would have been um, I think maybe a more solid strategy to have included uh some of the examples um of these recommendations, what they currently are right now, um, because you know, this is a great presentation, but um, you know, eliminating the option to remove our work.

Well, what is the current uh language say or does not say?

Um I appreciate the change in in the formula you mentioned uh industry best standards.

I think knowing what those those standards are would be helpful as well.

Um, but frankly, you know, this mayor and council, we have not dug into the 2019 report.

Um there's some really great stuff in it.

I won't ruin it for my colleagues, because it's really awesome, but there's a lot of stuff about the like a direct connection economic development that I would like to see, since that is one of our strategic priorities to be able to look at our our arts and culture programs within the lens of it being a net positive um for economic development.

But there are some specific recommendations from the 2019 report that I would love to see um in the future.

Um, but yes, having said all this, um I think that um, and I'm not just saying this because I was on um a commission.

I think that our volunteers are our greatest assets, and I think that any commission that has the scope of the expertise and and uh the knowledge, I want to hear what they have to say.

So even though I'm extremely comfortable having this discussion, I am extremely hesitant to to have it not having had their input first.

Um and I think getting us all on that same level will go a lot longer uh in this process.

So that is my feedback.

Thank you very much.

I just wanted to note, just because some people may have and maybe newer or happened before you were here.

Um there has been some things in the past that was on display that um was very divisive in our community.

Uh, and there was a lot of engagement here in Mayor and Council about that.

So that's my people are alluding to.

Um so I just I wanted to note that.

Um, that on the other side, more recently, you've had situations where a private developer um had art on their building and they changed it, and there was a whole discussion of how do we deal with that.

Um so I understand both sides, and I just wanted to say the history on some of that is that yes, we don't want people randomly taking things down that we all invested in and proven, um, but also we want to be able to be uh to evolve so that if something's not inclusive or it doesn't reflect the values that we have an opportunity to address that.

Okay, Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you.

Uh first let me say uh thank you for the presentation and all the work that it hit went into it.

Uh it's really uh impressive and a lot of uh food for thought.

And I think you give a good um framework um moving forward.

I won't go too far uh giving remarks because I think that my colleagues really um have already said um much of what uh I was thinking, uh both in terms of art being an important part of her civic framework, but also uh the need for the cultural arts uh uh commission to weigh in uh with the framework that you've um you've suggested.

Um when we're speaking about uh the the recommendations and specifically number two uh uh and number um well, number four under number two.

Um eliminating the option to remove artwork.

I think uh council member uh Dr.

Miles really said it well.

Um, you know, it changes over time, and we should be really cautious about uh removing that ability for the mayor and council or um others um in in the city to alter or uh remove artw if it's deemed necessary.

Um with that, I will turn my uh time back over, Ma.

Thank you for your comments.

Councilmember Felton.

Thank you, and thank you for this.

Uh really easy to understand, which is always helpful to me.

So thank you.

Um couple thoughts.

One, I just want to clarify this removal uh change that uh is in there.

Um certainly I would agree with all of my colleagues if we were uh suggest if the intention is to make a requirement that neither mayor nor council nor anybody could ever remove any artwork ever.

I heard you say that it was actually changing just the ability for the private owner within a set period of time.

It wouldn't remove our ability at any point in time.

Is that right?

It's pertaining specifically to the art on the private property of the private developer.

It should be permanent, permanent public art in nature.

We considering the investment that's going into it.

And right now, they can put a piece of art indoors or outdoors and remove it after five years without having to pay require contribution in for that investment to the city.

So it would only pertain to private developers and their private property.

The public art, we would have we do have, and we would continue to have a deaccession policy, so that anything that's divisive that we need to take down, we can go through that policy, that process.

So okay, that's a helpful uh just clarification on that point.

Uh in looking at the current um it talks about the option for replacement.

Like I'm wondering if there if we could thread that needle by saying, yes, maybe uh you can remove a particular piece of art, but there must always be art there as replacement.

Just a thought there.

It just currently speaks to that now.

So um the and then on sort of the rest of it, yes, uh, all of this generally looks uh like the direction we want to be headed.

I also want to hear from the Cultural Arts Commission.

I also think that um at what point in that process that happens, as long as the feedback is there from our volunteers, I'm good with that, right?

Um so whether it's before it ever comes to us or before it gets finalized, and the cultural arts commission has something better, like more defined to sink their teeth into, I'm fine with that too.

So I'm echoing the comments that yes, I want to hear that feedback.

At what point in the process, whatever makes the most sense.

I don't um so I'm okay with providing some thoughts now as long as we get that on the back end, which I think you said was always your plan.

So thanks.

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw.

I also want to echo my colleagues and thank you uh for these um proposals to the updated ordinance.

Um and also just share that the presentation showed and demonstrated our value in public art.

I'm leaning towards all three, and just like my colleagues have shared, I do want to hear from the commission.

Um, and I just wanted to also um just highlight, I like the way that you uh broke down the formula and the change.

Um, I am leaning towards uh those two options.

Um, but that makes it very clear, and I appreciate that.

So thank you.

Dr.

Miles.

Apologies.

Um again, this perhaps may be getting in the weeds of something that may be fleshed out a bit later after we get more input.

Going back to y'all slide 11, uh, that you know, we look at the current public art processes compared to what's being proposed.

Another point that I would like to bring up, it sounds like again, we as a body would be approving things above 250, 250,000.

Everything else just goes to the committee.

I understand why that is from the context of you know, making our meetings short, like much appreciation.

We need to do everything in our power to make meetings short.

But again, the the same uh the same point applies in that um art is very I think it's very important, but I would still want us to have ability to opine even in projects that might be less than 250,000 for for the sensitive reasons we put up further.

Again, we can talk about this later.

I just want to put my two cents in there.

Thank you.

Councilmember Bolton.

I'm actually not weighing in on the shorter meetings point, but that but maybe the related broader point, because I did notice that uh change, and I did predict that uh some might look at that and say we're removing some power from the council and we should never do that.

I disagree with that stance.

Um I think it's uh we hire subject matter experts for a reason, and we're here for high-level policy.

So uh so I I and I am not an art expert.

So if if it uh if we have a commission that is experts and we have staff that are experts, and we've given broad policy guidance and it just so happens to make our meetings faster, I wouldn't have a problem with that change.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember Larry.

So some of us that might be art experts, do we get to like weigh in on that?

Um I no, no, I no, I was I was more joking that like I know, and I I appreciate too that there are definitely um uh subject matter experts, for example.

I'm never going to talk about nor try to diagnose anything from the dais, but if Dr.

Miles is open to doing that, that's definitely into the wheelhouse.

Um, but I I actually um I think be going back to being um a good steward of of public funds, I think that with probably extremely rare exceptions.

I don't see a negative to I don't see a positive to cutting us out.

If anything, it actually brings people into the process.

What do I mean by that?

If the process is not up here at the Dais, um, then it's happening as a lot of the really good work is behind the doors that most of the public can't get into.

And I think that um it's really hard to um just one of the tools in the community outreach toolbox is to have a conversation for the public to hear us have that conversation.

Um a great example of this uh was before I got elected, but the previous mayor and council, now Madam Mayor and Councilmember Dr.

Miles talking about uh the mural here at City Hall and whether or not um everybody loved the design, but there was one element which was a uh martini glass, wine glass, something like that.

And and you know, it it wasn't a make it or break it, and I think actually it brought uh a really good perspective in that even I was like, oh yeah, that doesn't really make sense.

Um it was a good conversation, and I'm not trying to the word is wordsmith, but I don't know, Art Smith something.

Like I'm I don't like when people do that to me, so I never wanted to do that to other people, but I think it's actually um a better process at the end by getting this kind of conversation uh in in front of folks.

Um I did have I just wanted to make that comment.

I did have a question on the amount.

Was there a I'd love to hear if you had a specific rationale thought to why under the proposed options for contributions, why it would not exceed 300,000.

Sure.

Currently, the 300,000 mark is the highest that we have in our files that a developer has been required to contribute.

And considering that when you factor in the costs of engineering, fabrication, installation, that's actually not that much, depending on the size of the development project.

And considering that we won't open an ordinance up for revisions for quite a long time.

It's a number that falls in the middle of the road when you consider the long-term projections for how costs will increase.

Looking also at that national survey of localities across the country, their required contribution caps span 50,000, 100,000, 200,000, and 450,000.

So considering the length of time we want this to remain in place, plus the realistic cost of public art and what the maximum contribution to date has been.

Okay, I just didn't know if there was a and and that's really really helpful.

Um I think that you know, um, maybe if people do want to exceed that of their own volition, I would not stop somebody from doing that.

Um, but I think the other thing that is great is that we've seen the ability to to talk to people who are bringing projects forward and presenting it to mayor and council, and then seeing the ways in which the art in public spaces element of development can also be used for placemaking.

And for this in particular, um the uh proposed development along Arden and Arden and Halpine.

Um having that in some way say um the neighborhood name, Twinbrook, would be phenomenal because we don't, as of yet, I'm looking at Mr.

City Manager, as of yet have a neighborhood sign there.

So that this was going to be a way to not only um incorporate uh a new community of residents, but also make that place making for uh those of us that live in neighborhoods that don't have um any sort of placemaking for the neighborhood itself.

So um I just wanted to flag that.

I I am I am again hesitant to kind of take mayor and counsel out of the process, a little different than my colleague more because I think it creates better art at the end of the day, but um I also challenged a little bit by under our current process getting more updates on where things are.

Um so that helps all of us as well.

Uh, some of us who may get texts random days, like what's going on with this?

Um, so having that kind of those those updates out there that we can just pick from and share with the community be really really helpful and I think really important.

Thank you.

I wanted to thank you, Dr.

Miles and uh Councilman Fulton for raising the point.

I wanted to opine that um I for different reasons uh do support mayor and council having approval opportunity.

Um I think that we did it just tonight uh with the consent agenda.

Um I like that the public gets to see what's coming uh and it creates awareness but also opportunities for public engagement.

Uh people get interested.

I've heard seen people will see something in one community that we've talked about, and then they get excited about it in another.

So I just I think that that's helpful.

Um I do uh um also recall that there was potential for drinking related images to show up on the city hall, uh, and we were able to make a quick quick tweak on that.

And then there was another thing that involved cultural sensitivity that we were able to.

So it's just it's nice to just have a final, like mostly all the work is done by the experts of you, but just uh a final lens, I think is helpful.

Um, so I I do support us having a very minor role in that way of just being able to opine and also to help create public awareness.

So um I I wanted to weigh in on that.

I had a couple of um quick thoughts, questions that I wanted to run past you, and also just to say incredible work on some of the murals that are going up, college gardens went up, Lincoln Park went up, memory walk.

Um, you guys are like bowling uh and really getting a lot of pins.

So um I wanted to honor that work.

Um also we had some really cool creative art embedded into the swim center.

Um, and uh then we saw some private uh work as well with Town Square at the ABC store that the county runs.

Uh, we didn't we didn't pay for that.

Um and it's nice when other people can pay for it as well.

And then the mural that was on um one of these storage facilities in Rock East.

So we're starting to see some really cool things happening, and again mentioned there was a lot of performing arts and things that are happening in the city as well.

But I just wanted to say there's been a flurry of great activity, so please keep it up.

Um I did want to note uh in terms of we heard the county presentation today.

I haven't quite seen the county collaboration, city collaboration in the past, so thank you for bringing them to us.

I do wonder if there are ways to foster greater collaborations or even with the state, and I know we're starting to work with CSX and Wamada.

I think that not all the space is ours, and so if we want to beautify things, we do have to work across partners, um, whether that's a private or another uh kind of government or quasi-government entity.

So I just wanted to call that out specifically.

Um that has come up uh as well is is there a central place to see what's going on arts-wise?

I we have been trying to get more stuff on Explore Rockfell.

I know that's dedicated space on the site for just the art, the public art.

Uh, but if people are trying to see what's going on in terms of concerts and all that, I just kind of disperse.

So that has come up in the cultural arts plan before, and I just wanted to note that.

I don't know if there's a way to address that in what you're looking here, but um, I just wanted to raise that point because it is is an important one.

As my colleague has mentioned, I do think that art is uh also supports economic development and tourism.

We've seen how art can transform cities.

Um there's some that are happening here on the East Coast where it's really lifting up the city and giving it revitalization is not as expensive as putting up a new building, but it adds color and vitality.

Um and then the last comment I'll make is um I know you're working on a strategic plan.

Uh so I don't know if there's if you want to provide an update in the future, it doesn't have to be answered now, but I think that's gonna be a bigger part of this discussion.

Yeah, okay.

Any comments or questions that you okay, perfect.

Uh Councilmember Jackson.

Uh thank you.

I'll be I'll be brief, but uh I just want to respond to um my colleagues uh and and make clear um you know normally I am for 250 um uh the approval uh because as council member fulton well knows um it's shortens our our meetings, but in this case, I think that um uh I'm with the mayor and with uh uh council member Villary and Councilmember Dr.

Miles.

I do think it's important that um we would win and uh that we actually see ourselves as as somewhat of um not experts, but we're we're in turn tune with a community, and I think people expect that of us.

Uh and art is something that's really uh kind of um unique in terms of uh the community's buy-in, the community's feelings, and we should not have uh a limit um on that because I mean we are uh we take the the community's feelings, uh we know what the community is thinking, and so I just uh I'm really really uh in agreement with the mayor and with uh my colleagues on this.

I I don't think we should um have uh a limit uh of 250,000 uh uh when we're uh considering art councilman Van Gray.

I I would just add, I know we're getting into some of the weeds here, and I know there was a great presentation, but we're now getting into places that I know I'd still like to hear from the CAC before we get into them because I know we're now getting into information and um specific parameters that before I give a specific statement on specific issues that we're you know noting here.

I'd like to hear from the commission first.

Councilmember Felton.

Sorry, I do feel obligated to clarify something.

I will joke all day about shorter meetings.

My stance on the issue of mayor and council deciding on design is principal that's not efficiency-based.

Like I don't think we want to be a government that consolidates power in the highest level electeds and removes it from subject matter expert civil servants.

I so I just want to be really clear on that.

I'll joke all day about shorter meetings, but it is a principled stance um on that point that I absolutely know I'm alone on, but I'll say it every chance I get.

I appreciate that.

I I understood that it wasn't about shorter meetings because we did it today.

We approved something, it was fast, uh, and uh we got it done.

Uh and I I think that we have benefited from having, and because the reason why we did it so fast is because staff and the community did such great work.

Uh, and hopefully it will continue to be that way.

Dr.

Miles.

This is so interesting.

Jousting between the two people on the dais who really like efficient meetings.

I just want to put it out there, and I'm gonna respect my colleagues.

I actually enjoy working with my colleague, Councilmember Fulton.

I um disagree in again, it's a principal stance.

I think that um is gonna sound somewhat hypocritical because I do think you could at least at low morale when you just like second guessing your subject matter experts, you know, city staff or what have you are experts in the community.

Um, however, I I do find that I I do my my stance on is that our highest level city staff employees appointed or otherwise are giving us advice, and it's our job to make the decision about what to do with that.

Um at the end of the day, we have to think about political consideration, not because about getting re-elected, less about that, but more about uh what it means and how it will represent the city.

So that's why I think it's important we have feedback.

But I do uh also there's a there's a balance between um making sure that we are having all staff, all of our volunteer bodies and uh others work up to their potential and support them 100% while also being mindful of the implic implications of something going forward.

Because once our name's on it, it's own it.

We gotta own it.

Um yeah, I think that's and I think it's a healthy debate.

I think it's a debate that we should have.

And I'm glad that um she hasn't punched me in the throat yet.

No.

There is no violence in the council.

We're just all of the keys.

On that note, on the point of effective and efficient meetings.

I think that we have really covered this, and I want to say thank you.

Um, I look forward to the feedback, and I should note I'm the liaison to the Culture Arts Commission, and I know they're watching with beta breath and probably talking to the screen.

You will have a chance to weigh in.

And uh, we just want to thank you for bringing some fresh perspectives.

I appreciate it.

If you have any final questions or for us, I think we're good.

But you're welcome.

Thank you for hearing what I have brought before you and giving me your feedback.

I appreciate it.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We're gonna take a quick five-minute break.

If uh the team could set up for the next presentation, welcome back, Rockville.

We're continuing our November 3rd meeting number 26-25.

We're now moving on to our item work session 12 B, which is focused on inclusionary zoning research.

And I appreciate that we have a presentation coming before us on modeling price dwelling unit program.

Welcome, Jane Lyons Raider, Housing Programs Manager in the Department of Housing and Community Development.

And we have with us our graduate researcher, Colin Maloney.

Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh, and good evening.

I'm very pleased to be joined tonight by Colin Maloney.

Um, as you shared, who is a graduate researcher.

He's in the University of Maryland College Park Masters of Public Policy Program, GoTERPS, I have to say.

Um, and he'll be giving the bulk of tonight's presentation about the research that he completed for us.

Um, but I will kick us off and close up as well.

So the outline for tonight's presentation.

Um, we're going to start with a little bit of background and some of the objectives of the research and of our work tonight to provide a little bit of context before jumping into the requested feedback.

Uh, then Colin will share the findings from his research report and I'll talk about next steps with the MPDU code rewrite, uh, and then we'll circle back to the requested feedback for further discussion.

So, as you know, housing is one of five focus areas of the mayor and council in 2024, a whole year ago now, there were three work sessions on the city's housing strategies, which ultimately became the Rockville Housing Strategy's work plan that we are now working through.

And as a part of that, comprehensively updating the moderately priced dwelling unit section of the code was approved as a strategy by the mayor and council.

So the MPDU moderately priced dwelling unit program was established in 1990.

So it's a long-standing program, and it's the primary method of producing affordable housing in the city of Rockville, which makes it critically important, especially right now with affordable housing as such a dire need.

And so this is a very important project.

And this is only the beginning of a lot of research that is going to go into this project.

The findings that we'll be discussing tonight are more focused generally on inclusionary zoning programs, as Colin will talk about a little bit more.

Inclusionary zoning is the umbrella term that's given within the housing policy industry for programs like the MPDU program.

So we won't be focusing as much on the specifics of the city's program, although we will talk about the city's program in relation to other programs nationwide and regionally.

But so just to reiterate that that will be our focus for tonight, but we plan to dive much deeper into researching the city's code to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the existing program is one of our primary objectives.

We're also working to understand findings from academic research and national best practices.

That was a lot of what Colin dived into.

And ultimately, our goal is to design an inclusionary zoning policy that will best serve Rockville residents by one creating new affordable housing, and two, providing economic diversity while minimizing cost impacts on market rate renters and home buyers.

So our requested feedback is do you agree with the city staff that we should one continue to have an inclusionary zoning program?

Looking at the program from the ground up, we wanted to make sure we asked that very basic question, but we do recommend that we continue to have an IZ program.

Two, explore policies that lessen the cost burden of an IZ program on market rate renters and home buyers and balance the need to incentivize housing development.

And some of Colin's research will bring some light into why that's a question that we are asking.

Do you agree with city staff that we should explore more flexible payment and lieu option while prioritizing the construction of income restricted units?

And four, explore ways to target lower incomes and improve reliability.

And with that, I will hand it over to Colin.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jane.

Good evening, Mayor, Ashton Council members.

I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to share my report findings with you.

And also like to extend my thanks to Jane and others at the department for their feedback and guidance throughout writing this report.

So again, the goal of this report was to highlight the various design, production outcomes, and trade-offs associated with inclusionary zoning and provide DHCD staff with a few considerations as they work to rewrite chapter 13.5, the moderately price dwelling unit program.

Throughout the presentation, I will often refer to inclusionary zoning and the MPDU program as Simply I Z.

So my report covers five main topics.

First is housing affordability challenges, which assesses housing needs in the city.

Second is inclusionary zoning design, and this section takes a look at the current MPDU program design on the city of Rockville and compares it to IZ programs in the region.

The third section is on inclusionary zoning unit production.

So here I talk more about what factors are associated with programs that successfully produce inclusionary units.

And I also take a look at historical MPDU production in Rockville.

Fourth section of the report analyzes IZ's economic impacts on housing developers, market rate consumers, and governments.

Finally, the last section of this report does look at an under-researched area, which is the racial and economic diversity outcomes of IZ.

So beginning with affordability challenges, data from the US Census Bureau estimates that nearly half of renters and a quarter of all homeowners in the city of Rockville are cost burdened.

So these are households that spend 30% or more of their income on housing expenses.

So my report looks further into these affordability challenges by analyzing the housing gap in the city.

And essentially a gap analysis reflects the availability of affordable homes for various income groups.

So this first table here looks at renter-occupied units in the city.

You'll see the rows represent various household income groups.

So here those that earn less than or equal to 30% of the area and mean in income, those roughly between 30 and 50% of AMI, and those between 50 and 80% of AMI.

Really the important column to look at here is column I, which is outlined in the box in red.

And this column reflects the surplus or deficit of housing units in the city for each income group.

So as the table reflects, households with incomes less than 30% of AMI have the greatest shortage of affordable units in the city, but shortages do persist for households earning between 30 and 50% of AMI as well.

So table two is the same format as the previous, except table two is now looking at homeowners and the income bans are slightly shifted here.

But again, the important column is column I, which again shows the surplus or deficit of affordable units to each income group.

And here we see similar trends emerge with lower income households facing the greatest shortage of affordable homes.

Now it's worth mentioning here that there are several barriers and factors that contribute to unaffordable housing.

For renters, they are not only faced with an undersupply of affordable units, but many also face low and stagnant wages.

Homeowners face similar income challenges and have also experienced increasingly high home prices, mortgage rates, insurance premiums, and property taxes in recent years.

Additionally, broader macroeconomic trends such as widening economic inequality, reduction in federally subsidized housing, and burdensome government regulations also contribute to the issue.

So it's it's clear that there is a need for programs to alleviate some of these financial pressures, which is why many cities and counties have chosen to adopt inclusionary zoning programs.

But what exactly is IZ and what does it do?

Well, it does two things.

First, it expands the supply of affordable units, and it also increases access to high cost and high opportunity neighborhoods as a result.

IZ typically delivers affordable units by either requiring or encouraging developers to designate a portion of their new housing units to be priced below market rate.

And in the city of Rockville, the IZ program was established in 1990, again in City Code Chapter 13.5, which is referred to as the moderately priced dwelling unit program or simply the MPDU program.

So IZ programs vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but they generally share several program design features listed here.

The minimum set aside is the proportion of total units that must be made affordable in a new development.

So in Rockville, this is 15% of total units.

Several programs in the region also have set aside requirements that range up to 15%.

Next is the affected project threshold.

And this describes the types of projects that are subject to IZ programs and requirements.

And in Rockville, this is for projects proposing proposing 20 or more units.

And here I found that nearby jurisdictions have higher program thresholds ranging from 24 to 50 units, except for Montgomery County and the city of Gathersburg, who also have their threshold set at 20.

Developers often receive incentives for providing IZ units beyond what is required, so beyond that 15%.

And these incentives can take multiple forms, but often includes a sort of density bonus.

Rockville does offer a density bonus for projects in medium density zones that provide a higher percentage of MPDEs that is than is required.

And this is the most common incentive offered across the region.

But it's important to mention here that while this incentive is offered by the city, it has never been used by developers in Rockville, according to the city staff that I spoke with.

Next is income targeting.

So most programs have specific income parameters for renters and purchasers of IZ units.

So in Rockville, four rent MPUs are targeted at households earning roughly 60% of the area median income.

First sale units are targeted at households earning roughly between 50 and 80% of the area and median income.

Most programs in the region likewise target households again earning between 50 and 80%, although a few programs do target households earning as little as 30% AMI in their rental programs.

Lastly, here is the affordability duration, which defines how long IZ units must remain affordable for.

And this is sometimes also called the control period.

So in the city, four rent units must remain affordable for 99 years, and four sale units must remain affordable for 30 years.

This is in line with programs in Montgomery County and the city of Gaithersburg.

However, some programs in the region have shorter affordable affordability periods for their rental IZ units, which typically range from 30 to 40 years.

There is a full summary of the programs provided in table three of the report.

So the third section of my report moves from the design of IZ programs to the outcomes of IZ, focusing on inclusionary unit production.

And here my literature review revealed several findings, but three main findings stand out.

So first, there are several factors associated with inclusionary unit production, which includes strong housing market, mandatory program participation, incentives for developers, clear and predictable program guidelines, and flexible compliance options.

Second, research has found that an increase in the minimum set aside is actually associated with a decrease in total units.

So in other words, programs with lower IZ set aside requirements tend to be associated with higher inclusionary unit production compared to programs with higher requirements.

And third, some evidence does suggest that the number of inclusionary units actually that are actually built increases as the minimum project size that triggers IZ increases.

So again, a program with a project threshold of 40 units would be expected to produce more units than a program with a threshold of 20 units per se.

But taken together, these studies do provide some useful information about how changes in a program's design can ultimately impact the number of units actually produced.

So now I'll actually turn to look at inclusionary unit production in the city of Rockville.

So figure two here reflects the number of MPDUs produced per year in Rockville from 2000 to 2024.

And it's further broken down by rental and for sale MPDUs.

Years 1990 to 1999 are omitted from this figure as no MPDUs were produced during those years.

So since its adoption in 1990, the city's MPDU program has produced 992 rental and 472 for sale MPDUs.

From 2000 to 2024, this came out to an average of 40 rental and 19 for sale units annually.

But looking forward, there are projects in the pipeline that are expected to add additional rental and for sale MPDUs.

So a major finding that is reflected in the figures on the previous slide are while on average the program produces around 60 units annually.

So neither is the mix of tenure for MPDU MPDUs produced.

So for example, following the housing market crash, zero first sale MPDUs were sold between 2011 and 2019.

So again, because I Z production is to some extent driven by the market, it's proven to be somewhat of an unstable source of affordable housing on a year-to-year basis.

Sorry.

That being said, it's also important to consider the production of MPDUs within the context of the broader housing market, as I Z programs can have significant impacts on housing developers, market rate housing consumers, and governments.

So in this section, I analyze its impact on all three of these groups.

And I'll start here with developers.

So there's a long-standing argument in the literature on IZ that inclusionary unit inclusionary unit requirements raise the cost of housing development.

Authors argue that developers might absorb these extra costs or they may pass it along to market rate consumers.

But in some cases, the extra cost may simply make projects infeasible.

So to explore these various economic impacts, I use the so-called five L's of development, which are labor, land, lumber, laws, and lending.

So first to begin with labor, I'll go over each of these briefly.

So the price of labor is largely driven by local labor markets, and as such, localities with higher living costs and labor regulations are likely to have higher labor cost as a result.

Here, inclusionary zoning programs are unlikely to really change the cost in either direction for developers.

But next is land.

So essentially, what a developer is willing to pay for land is the market value of land or the residual land value.

And this is determined by calculating how much the developer has left after deducting all other costs from the expected value of the completed project.

Here, I Z requirements may reduce the value of completed projects and therefore reduce the residual land value.

So in some cases, the landowner may accept a lower price for the property, but they may also hold on to the property in hopes of larger returns in the future.

The third category is lumber, and this is very similar to labor.

The price of developers pay for materials are influenced by national and even global markets.

Municipalities can, however, influence what building materials must be used through local building cones and design standards.

I did find that some IZ programs do require inclusionary units to be identical in every respect to market rate units in those developments.

And in these cases, less stringent cosmetic design standards for inclusionary units may reduce some of their cost.

And the fourth category is laws, and here what I'm really talking about is the entitlement and permitting process.

So the length of this process can have a significant impact on project cost and feasibility.

Uncertainty created by discretionary or slow approvals associated with IZ essentially increases the risk of losing pre-development capital and leads developers to actually demand larger profit margins.

And then lastly is lending.

So to cover the construction cost of a multifamily project, developers must finance their cost with a combination of debt and equity.

And there's two things to consider here.

First, IZ affordable affordability requirements effectively lower a project's expected net operating income by lowering its income from rent or sales because of those inclusionary units.

And this essentially means that lenders will be will likely offer smaller loans to IZ projects compared to projects with no affordability restrictions.

And second, absent any subsidies, this remaining gap in financing must be filled with equity, which in part comes from project investors as well as a small amount provided by the developer.

And here, developers must promise a return to investors that are as much dictated by national and global financial markets as by local markets.

And it often has little to do with how much the profit a developer is actually expected to make here.

But again, I go over all these development categories in more detail in the report.

So the effects on developers that I just described are really static effects.

So in other words, if you hold all else equal, what are the direct impacts on developers?

But in reality, the effects of imposing additional cost on developers play out in a more dynamic environment.

So developers often cross-subsidize inclusionary units with market rate units to recover lost revenue, and therefore raising prices for market rate consumers.

Research indicates that this is most likely to occur in jurisdictions with an elastic housing demand.

So those are jurisdictions where housing alternatives are scarce or where individuals are willing to pay a premium to be located near certain amenities.

And one proxy for housing elasticity and housing alternatives is vacancy rates.

So a homeowner vacancy rate of one to two percent is a and a rental vacancy rate of seven to eight percent is generally understood to represent a market in which demand for housing matches supply relatively well.

So for context, in the city of Rockville, the vacancy rate is estimated at 0.8% for owner-occupied units and 3% for renter-occupied units.

Additionally, others suppose that I Z programs have the potential to increase market rate prices across an entire market.

And here again, research findings on IZ's impact on the aggregate market rate housing production levels are mixed, but many studies do find an association between IZ and higher market rate home prices, including a recent study done in the DC metro area.

So last, I do want to consider also the economic impacts on local governments.

So like I mentioned earlier, many jurisdictions offer incentives to offset the cost of providing below market rate units.

So these incentives may include a density bonus, waivers of or deferrals of impact fees, tax deferment, expedited permitting, zoning variances, and other regulatory concessions that reduce developers' cost.

While offering these incentives has been found to be an effective strategy for increasing inclusionary unit production, it can create real cost for the public sector.

So for example, when jurisdictions grant fee waivers or tax deferrals, revenues that would otherwise go into a city's general fund are being redirected towards IZ programs.

And even seemingly free incentives such as density bonus may result in increased infrastructure and other public cost.

So it's important to understand these three perspectives as each actor is likely to bear some of the cost of providing inclusionary units.

So the final subject of the report in this presentation is the racial and economic diversity outcomes of IZ.

So in addition, again, in addition to the affordability goal, inclusionary zoning also seeks to increase racial and economic economic diversity in neighborhoods and communities.

And while this aspect has received considerably less research attention, several studies point to positive outcomes, including higher lifetime earnings and better educational outcomes for children.

And the available research also indicates that IZ can foster integration and lead to meaningful outcomes, although it is somewhat context dependent.

So for example, it may depend on things like the method for allocating IZ units.

So in other words, is there a lottery system, a wait list, or preference for city residents?

And it may also depend on where IZ units are actually being built.

So you may be able to produce a significant number of IZ units, but if they're not located in neighborhoods with high performing schools, for example, you may not see the same positive outcomes.

So lastly, to conclude, I would just like to reiterate that inclusionary zoning does provide long-term stability for MPDU tenants and homeowners through restricted affordability.

And as I just mentioned, it can also improve life outcomes for tenants, as well as offer individuals who have previously experienced barriers to homeownership and opportunity to build wealth.

But as was reflected in the housing gap analysis, there is still significant need for more units that are affordable to households earning less than 30% of the A of I.

And the city's MPDU program as currently designed is unlikely to reach far enough down to these households.

Another point to consider is that developers do not always absorb the cost of IZ.

And in a city like Rockville with high housing demand, it is like it is likely that at least part of the cost is being passed along to these market rate consumers.

I'll close with one last thing.

Effective IZ programs leverage developer incentives, but this also prevents the wide-scale adoption of beneficial policies.

So for example, relaxing parking requirements is an effective IZ incentive because it can significantly reduce the cost of development.

But for that to be the case, one could argue that if more housing is the goal, parking requirements should be relaxed for all developments, not just those subject to IZ requirements.

But of course, if this were to happen, it would no longer be an incentive.

And the same thing applies for expect expedited permitting and many other incentives offered to IZ.

But with that, I'd like to once again thank you for your time and attention, and I will now hand it back to Jane.

Thank you very much.

All right, so this is the, as I stated at the beginning, the very beginning of our research into a very complex policy area.

But our next steps, timeline-wise, is to begin the engagement for the wholesale MPDU code rewrite in spring 2026.

And in between now and then, we will continue to engage in research with other graduate students, as well as through the upcoming housing needs assessment.

We're really looking forward to this as an opportunity to inform the rewrite by having even stronger understanding of market conditions and how certain changes to the program could affect the overall housing market.

And then with that process, once we really get into it, we will be engaging with MPDU renters and homeowners, developers, and the community.

We certainly want to leave no stone unturned hearing about folks' engagement or lack of engagement with that MPDU program.

So now to circle back to requested feedback.

So we're framing this as do you agree with staff that the city should one continue to have an inclusionary zoning program.

And for a myriad of reasons, staff believe that we should, I think above all, that is the primary source of affordable housing production in the city.

The next three items here are all about exploring.

We don't necessarily have uh concrete recommendations for you at this time.

Um, but we want to know what direction, where should we really uh focus our research as we go forward?

So, second is to explore policies that lessen the cost burden of an IZ program on market rate renters and home buyers, while balancing the need to incentivize housing development.

Um, and as Colin spoke about, things like that can look like property tax abatements, density bonuses, um recognizing that we do have an existing density bonus program and hype bonus in town center, but should we tweak that in order to make it uh right size to get the type of production that we are looking for?

Um, three is to explore effects uh flexible payment and lieu option while prioritizing the construction of income restricted units.

Right now we do have a payment and lie option, but it's pretty strict and narrow in the terms of when that can apply to a project.

So that's something we're interested in looking at of is there a way to adjust that to make it a little bit more flexible?

But at the end of the day, we do really want actual units for people to live in that are affordable.

Four, explore ways to target lower incomes.

As Colin demonstrated, there's a deep need for affordable units at the lowest end of the income spectrum.

Um, and then as well as improve reliability of the program.

Um right now there's a lot of room for negotiation when we're working with developers to create an MPDU program agreement.

Um, and sometimes that means that we get uh units at a certain level, but we wish we could have gotten more at a lower level or vice versa.

Um and I think for both staff and for the developer side, we're interested in ways that we can be a little bit more prescriptive with the requirements as a way to lead to less negotiation and hopefully have more concrete outcomes for the goals that we've set here.

And with that, um that is the end of our presentation.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for all the background research.

I also wanted to just note that the city's comprehensive plan does have a uh 10-part policy 10 section on uh Bali price dwelling units uh with actions 10.1 through 10.8.

So it looks like we might re-revisit that and expand upon it.

But I do want to at least reference that foundation.

Uh, and some of my colleagues have printouts here.

I I want to start out with saying thank you.

I also want to start out by saying giving Montgomery County some credit here.

Montgomery County was the first inclusionary zoning uh pioneer from Molly Price Dwelling Units back in the 1970s, and they have since produced thousands of of these units.

So from someone who has grown up in around areas where poverty was grouped and not blended in.

Uh I I think there's so many societal benefits to having programs like this that are access to schools, uh, more equitable distribution across jurisdiction, uh, as well as just life benefits, and there's so many stories of people who have benefited through the years by finding an apartment like this or a home like this.

Um I I just wanted to give kudos to the county for where it started.

Um I had a clarifying two clarifying comments, and then I'll go to your questions, and then I have some other questions that I'll pause and let my colleagues go first and come back to.

Um there was a comment about the bonus density not being taken up yet.

We just sort of implemented that with the Rockville Town Center plan, and then um previously with the amendment, um, the floating zone map amendment.

So we don't know what where that will go.

Hopefully that will incentivize some people to do the take advantage of the bonus density, but I also think that's probably an issue of marketing as well.

Um we haven't really proactively uh reached out to say, hey, did you know about this program?

I know I have done some of it, I know Reddy has, but just putting more of a focus and seeing if we can attract people who might be interested in that program by some proactive land use outreach.

The other piece I'll note is there was a comment about the AMI usage.

So there was there was a building like last September that was built.

How and they did not have to do that different income range from the 50 to 120 AMI average meaning income, and that's because they have a developers' rights agreement.

So they were governed.

Well, so we we have created new units since then, but it hasn't applied for this new policy yet.

Um and the city has been on a journey of updating its Molly Price Dwelling Unit Program.

So I know uh previous councils have adjusted it from 15 to 120.

This council has um lowered the threshold to 20 units as in accordance with the comprehensive plan.

Um I know we also work to um make it citywide, a 15% requirement.

It used to be 12 and a half percent in other areas that were near transit.

We also increased it to 99 years.

We lost about a hundred units in the King Farm community in particular, not by anything nefarious, it's just they they had fulfilled what they were required to do.

Um and then the other big thing, Councilmember Miles and I remember this is we saw during COVID someone who just went over the income and had to move in um in 90 days, and that really hit hard.

And so we talked about uh we created a change so that there's an opportunity to graduate, so you have six months, six months to find new home because it's not that easy to find new home.

So I just wanted to share the journey we've been on, and the journey continues.

Um I'll pause with some of my other comments, but just to answer your questions.

For me, obviously, is one yes.

I don't know where my colleagues are, but I think I have a good guess of where they're gonna be on this one.

Um the exploring policies that lessen the cost burden.

Um I do think that we need to look at things like um expedited permitting and making sure projects go faster.

And I think it's not just the Molly price dwelling unit program, but there's also things like LITEC, the low income tax credit.

There are other ways to get affordable units that are actually even more focused on the 30% AMI average meeting income.

So I I want to make sure as we're thinking about Molly Price Dwelling Unit, we also know that there are other tools to get uh deeper affordability.

Um I I do think that we should look at density bonuses, like we talked about neighborhood shopping centers, and I know that's gonna come up in our zoning discussions, but that's another way to try to get more of those kinds of units, and I think obviously the biggest way to get more of these units is to build more housing and find ways to incentivize this.

Um and I I think some of your comments on maybe trades on reduced parking to get more affordability and looking at uh fee waivers for qualifying projects.

Um we didn't go into this today, but I know that um in the past housing sessions we've talked about TIFFs and pilots as is something that you all would bring to us to explore.

We have to fund the city and keep us going, so have to think about the finances on that, but also maybe applying it specifically to the affordable units so we can get some of them.

Um I know it's very expensive to build um these affordable units, but we need them.

We need them for our teachers, our police officers.

Um gives me pause, I'll be honest, because I do know it's hard to get those units.

Uh and uh some of us were here when there was an issue, and we haven't even talked about this yet, but there's there is um housing that is focused on general population, which is uh rental and and ownership, but they're also kind of assisted living senior facilities that have grappled with this issue of the Molly Price Dwelling Unit, which applies to them, but they haven't been able to always produce those units in practice because their fees are really high.

So I think we haven't figured out an answer to that when you have services tied to that particular building, and I think they did a payment in lieu.

So, and we were able to apply that to a housing opportunities fund, and then we were able to roll those funds to save affordable units that might have not been saved.

So I I know this is a nuanced question, but uh I for me it's not it depends on what you're proposing.

I don't um want to lose the ability to create units, but I do recognize a unique situations where we're never really gonna get that unit.

Um explore ways to target lower incomes and improve reliability.

I think this is in combination with LITEC, but I also want to say the county does have higher incomes in some of their MPDU allowances, and we also know that teachers and police officers somehow sometimes are just in that cutoff period and can't fully take advantage.

And so I I do want to think about that workforce level of housing as well.

So I know we did move it to 120 but I want to see what you all think about should we look at our income ceiling a little bit differently to allow some of the people who serve our community and protect us every day.

So I'll end there and then I'll let my colleagues um speak up and then I have some questions and ideas to follow.

Councilmember Fulton thank you and thank you for this presentation.

I and looking at your feedback I mean yes we should have inclusionary zoning uh yes to number two yes number three um yes to number four that so yes across the board to exploring the two things that I do want to just call attention to I I really appreciated the last thing you said um on number four on improving reliability and you said being can we be more prescriptive and less negotiation I am very much in favor of that um I I think that we should be transparent on the front end of like what kind of you know the mayor said trades like yeah we should be we should be clear but we should be clear on the front end and not make it one off negotiations.

I think that's so that should be within our written plans that we all know up front what you get for what not in a one-off waiver request I think that benefits everybody um the other thing that I was intrigued by was the table in your report that does show that we've got um admirably sort of I don't know if it's more stringent or more more aggressive MPDU requirements which reflects our desire for more affordable housing but I am really curious about the income and I'm cautious about the impact on overall housing built right um and and you made a reference to that there as well so I just want to make sure there was a line in here somewhere that said like the more the requirements the less actual units get built uh that makes me really nervous so in whatever it is that we're doing I want to be really careful that we're not inadvertently decreasing the overall amount of housing and therefore the overall amount of MPBUs by being too aggressive in that front.

So thanks.

Dr.

Miles and then I see I didn't see who went up first.

Councilmember Shaw and then Councilman Van Crack.

Thank you madam mayor thank thanks to my colleague for the comments thank you all for the presentation I thank staff for the three presentations we've had thus far on housing we've made some great progress and I look forward to continuing the discussion.

As was noted at the top um it MPDUs um only provide a fraction of affordable housing but it's the best we have here in Rockville and I think it's incumbent given that approximately 1500 units between both rental and housing I'm sorry rental and um home home ownership models that have been created since its inception that any proposed changes to it we must you know be very mindful about and make sure we have done our due diligence.

It sounds like we this is the beginning of a conversation that we'll continue to have through the spring with the hope of getting more data and I think that's I think it's very important.

I think what was presented was a great start um I do have some you know um questions and or you know concerns about uh some of the implications of it I mean I can answer the the the feedback but the the my concerns bring to my mind the fact that as was pointed out we do need to have more discussion about this and I look forward to it.

I think bringing even more nuanced information uh to bear if we're gonna make significant or make changes to this program again that provides a significant amount of the affordable housing that we do have here in the city.

Just things again just point things out this is not to be ticky tech but it's just to um show that there is a bit of nuance um that I think can be captured if we continue to have discussions and get more data now I'll propose a way to to go about getting that data but when you look at the like the the five L slide that you pointed out earlier um it you know there's assumption that you know land will necessarily be or will be devalued if you have inclusion every time that's not necessarily true it kind of depends on where it is right it's a function of location.

So for example but that's where you can charge you know upwards of 5500 for a market rate rental unit doesn't really matter you know you get further up county it might make more of a difference.

So there's a bit of nuance in there that I think we should be mindful of if we're gonna make um uh changes as as outlined um similarly the laws I mean there's a few laws that are specific as I as I know again um that guide how proscriptive we can do with regard to we can be with regard to MPDUs I think there's like a square footage requirement like 200 square feet but beyond that um there's not a whole lot so to suggest that you know stringent laws may in somehow reduce inclusion or MPDU specifically I just I I don't think that's necessarily um I think it's something that can be debated and again having a more nuanced conversation.

I just I don't think that's necessarily um true.

I think it's something that can be debated, and again, having a more nuanced conversation.

And then the the lending part kind of goes back to the to the land part.

Law and offerings are a function more, I believe, of the location of the property as opposed to just is there inclusionary zoning or not.

Again, go down the stream, but that's it where you can get market rate units for in 5000s for for rentals.

It's it's less of an issue.

Um so you know, to answer the the questions one through four, I I agree.

I mean, I think many of us up here would be inclusion, I mean supportive inclusionary zoning.

Um but again, I would argue with the premise in number two um that just because there's inclusionary zoning doesn't necessarily mean that the cost is directly passed on to the market rate units.

Um the developer will sell those units at as high as like at the market will demand.

Um stated otherwise, um, you know, to get to point, I mean, two and points two and four kind of almost contradict each other to say that we can't get lower um to target lower incomes.

I mean, if if if premise number two was accurate, they could create all the units at 30 percent, they would just overcharge the market rate units, but that actually isn't what's happening because the market dictates how much they can sell or rent those units out.

So again, these are all in the weeds questions, but I think what I'm trying to get at, I'm being as super verbal verbal, so I'm gonna shut up in a little bit, is that it it just suggests we uh need to get more data.

I think uh staff is up in the net.

And I would take it a step further.

I think it's important that we get not only um you know, certainly getting the public's opinion, those who currently reside in MPDUs here in the city.

I think it's important to get developer input.

It's also good to get the the banking, the financing input.

Um, and I think folks who are best positioned, in addition to planners, people who do this for living day in day out, striking these deals, putting the deals together that bring large or even small um but particularly significant amounts of MPD units online.

So to get to that, I would recommend, and again, we can discuss this at the end after my uh colleagues make more comments.

I would propose actually sending out um uh request for proposal, get like a consultant to just give us the lay of land, both you know, regionally, Montgomery County, and then specifically for Rockfell, to be able to answer some of the nuance that I point out.

Perhaps I'm I'm wrong in these issues, but I think they are debatable.

But I think before making potential changes to our MPDU ordinance as as outlined, I would I would like um even more nuanced data.

So I'll again um propose um bring in a consultant on board, but I'll I'll hold my fire for now.

That's all that was way too long.

Councilmember Shah just uh confirm uh council member Miles.

Was that a motion?

That was a motion.

Yeah, I'll be making motion at the end, but I'll let it, you know, um I'll have folks open and make a motion.

Thank y'all.

Just thank you.

So if we could leave motions to the end, or I don't, it's a work session, so I'll I want to also have staff respond to that as well.

Um so they can share feedback with us, but let's um go with uh general questions and feedback on these slides, and then uh Dr.

Miles, I know you're gonna we'll come back to you.

Cool.

Thank you.

Councilman Shaw.

Just noting offhand that I will support that.

Um so I thank you to staff.

Um and thank you.

Um thank you, uh Mr.

Maloney, for uh developing the paper.

That was um a lot of a lot of information.

And so I appreciate that.

Um I did note a few things around cost burden because um with the previous work session with the rent stabilization, a lot of data came up, um, including that um about 50% of Rockville rents, and it I think it was actually more than near nearly half.

I think it was 56% of renters are cost burden, and the majority of those renters are in market rate housing.

Um I will say uh, you know, MPDUs, I strongly support them.

I think we need more that that goes to question one.

However, MPDUs will never ever uh just because of the way that they are structured, they will never ever ever be able to fully uh meet the needs of those that need affordable housing.

So we always have to do that with um other mechanisms like rent stabilization.

Um and I would also say um some going back to some of the racial, you said that um there was limited information around the racial and economic findings.

The county has a lot of findings around racial and economic uh around MPDUs.

Uh they've been doing this for a long time, uh, especially from their Office of Racial Equity and Social Justice.

Um and I found some interesting um just feedback around the racial breakdown around cost burden renters um just for the county and and Rockville typically follows some of the similar trends, but um the overwhelming majority of those that are cost burdened are black um and brown.

Um, and the overwhelming majority of those that own uh development firms are are white.

Um, and I think it was like 82% of the firms.

And I I think that's something important to take into account when we're thinking about the in the social equity impact statements that were that we should make.

Um then um I know that uh we're looking at uh 120 AMI, and I think that was from the previous council, right?

That's correct.

Yes, okay.

I think they there was some changes made to that even before Dr.

Miles and I were on.

We did actually reduce it and and go to 50% AMI.

Okay, so so we they expanded upward in income, we expanded lower in income.

It's been a journey.

Okay, so currently it's 120.

It's 50% to 120, but in practice right now on units that are built, it's uh I think 60 to 80.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Um, thank you for clarifying that because I know it was going back and forth.

Um, one of the concerns that I have in the way that the program is administered is that um it's administered by either the developer, the corporate landlord um making the selection.

And um what I'm hearing just like in the community is oftentimes they don't make enough.

Uh even though they they fulfill criteria, the the income criteria oftentimes they don't make enough because um like what was shared in your report, oftentimes uh the developer or corporate landlord want to make the decision on who has the least risk, so they'll pick some folks that have the highest income, often better credit, often all of the things that um uh can have an impact on economic diversity.

Um, and so I think when we have such a high um income level, I think that's one of the things that we just have to think about and explore.

Um and then also just the several barriers that people go through.

I mean, MPDUs are you know, it's it's a mean testing model of a way of getting uh scarce housing.

Um and so uh the time it takes to apply, there's language barriers, sometimes it's difficult to find online.

So again, the folks the folks with the most resources are the ones that are able to get more access to the housing.

Um just just to confirm when building new housing, um, because those numbers are stark in terms of folks that are cost burdened and needing housing now.

It does take uh two to five years to build new housing, right?

The time I am not up to date on the most recent numbers on how long it takes, but that sounds about right.

Yeah.

Okay, I just wanted to confirm because I know um this is a really important program for the future and like a very like a long-term strategy in terms of addressing our affordability.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Did you want to speak to two to four or not at this time?

So I do I I do agree with all of these, generally speaking, but I I would like to have more nuanced information back to uh Dr.

Miles' point.

Thank you.

Council Member Van Greg.

So first it's a yes for all four.

Um, but it's a nuance.

Uh as my colleagues have said, this is a balancing game.

There is no question we need to ensure that we've got reasonable affordable housing and not discourage people from accessing that reasonable housing.

And I think as we've discussed, as you we've we've discussed in work sessions, we discussed, there are sometimes problems with paperwork.

There's sometimes problems with unique types of income.

And there's problems with sometimes people meeting it, not meeting it, meeting it at a time, and sometimes when we we've had COVID, there needs to be an understanding of those nuances.

In the same vein, we also need to encourage development.

We've been discussing this in numerous of our housing work sessions that without development, we're not going to get more housing.

And as we know, we create naturally affordable housing by encouraging a lot of development.

And over time, those development and those um housing units become naturally affordable housing.

But so there's a balancing act, right?

We can't just have everything in the city be affordable and to the lowest income.

And we can't not have affordable housing policies in the city.

So as we're going through this, we have to un understand those balancing goals.

And to Dr.

Miles' point, which I think is a great one.

If we're doing the one through four and we're saying yes, we've got to start.

We've been provided with an excellent start with the data that you provided here.

But I think what that is is a start.

We need to evaluate and understand what has been working in other communities that we can adjust with regard to what we're doing and make it more efficient.

There's no question, we've heard complaints, we understand we can do a better job.

You know, as we've heard, our county was among the first in the entire nation to go this direction.

We can look at not only what's happened here, but look at how we can make it better.

And to Dr.

Miles' point, you know, there are a lot of people all over the country that really have a degree of analysis and code provisions.

If we're really going to be looking towards the spring of 2026 through through a serious code writing, let's make sure we get it right.

Um, and similarly, I would propose, and I don't know if a consultant or an expert can look at this, there might need to be nuances and adjusting, um, adjustments based on market conditions, based on situations that occur like COVID, like the housing fallout.

We saw what happened with the housing fallout in your chart.

Beautifully put put together chart, which showed us there was a period of time that because of market forces, we weren't getting MPDUs.

What does that mean?

Is there something that occurred in that time period that we can incorporate within our code to allow us to provide affordable housing and org encourage development when something like that happens?

Now, I'm not a housing expert.

I know I'm not a housing expert.

So again, to Dr.

Miles' point, which I think is a very good point, is there someone out there that can provide some of these nuances to get it done?

And similarly, I it goes to kind of one of the questions I had in one of your slides that you put forward.

You talked about the open rental units and the open housing units, which I think the rental was um was the housing was 0.8 and rental was about 3%.

Um I don't know if you know the answer to this, because I'd like to know are there certain things within our MPDU policy, our affordable housing policy that we can address that?

Because I know that there are things that we can do with the incoming units, but is there a way that we can address the units that are out there that are not being utilized somehow?

So that number that you're referring to is the overall housing vacancy rate.

Correct.

Yeah.

Um, and so with that, Rockville has a very low vacancy rate for residential housing, a really a more healthy rental vacancy rate is usually at around 5%, but we're below that at 3%.

So at this point, I don't think that um staff would necessarily recommend taking action.

There are actions that can be taken in places where vacancies are a bigger problem of having a vacancy tax, there are various policy tools, but because the vacancy rate is so low in the city, um, that's that's not really an issue that we're facing at the moment.

Okay, great.

Um, so uh again, one through four, I'm a yes, but because there's a balancing act and some of two and four and three, we can't do everything.

Um and so I I would want to look at ways in which we can make things better, encouraging development at the same time, making sure that we can maximize the use of our MPD units and our programs to encourage and to the extent it could be helpful through a consultant.

I think that's uh um an excellent idea.

Mr.

Mahalek, I think you wanted to say something.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um just a quick reminder.

Um, the request for a consultant were about to start work with a consultant, which you guys remember, it's the housing needs assessment.

And that's gonna go very rich, very deep into the data that will absolutely inform our review of the MPD view program.

I think it'll get us to where we need.

So when we would bring this back in the spring with some potential specific code amendments, it would include a lot of the data that we're going to get during the housing needs assessment.

If we still think there's gaps in that after that, certainly receptive to bring in consultant, but I think Councilmember Van Grack brings up a good point.

If we're going to make changes to the code, and we'll likely recommend some, um, it's really important after probably a period of two years to see if those code changes had an incentivizing effect on multi-ump production, or did it do the opposite?

Did it have a chilling effect on it?

That's really important.

Because we may not get it exactly right, but we got to test it.

So thank you, Mayor.

Thank you very much.

Councilmember Valerie.

Okie doke.

Um, I I appreciate that as well.

Having heard about the the housing needs assessment through the Human Services uh advisory uh commission, it I think it's gonna get very deep and uh very disaggregated as well, so that we'll get some very good information out of it.

Um I I agree uh there are a lot of issues in the uh implementation of the MPDU program.

I think that several of us have raised that should new uh units come online soon.

Um, you know, the less we could scramble to look at these agreements, the better it would be.

So even just having some conversation on that, both like a 500 miles up version as well as a little bit more granular would be would be helpful.

Um but I'm I'm thinking through just some ideas.

Um frankly, even looking, these are these are much higher level uh uh macro uh policies.

One thing I do want to explore more is this idea of um the intense economic uh segregation in the city, and how can we look at the program um look at IZ or the MPDU program and try to do as much as we can, given that frankly we can't do much to affect income inequality on like a greater scale since we don't have control over employers.

Um what can we do?

Um, so I would be curious to know um the idea of the high income planning area requirement that the county has, where the county starts at uh 12.5%, whereas we start at 15, but then they have areas of uh uh higher income where the um requirement for the number of MPDUs increases.

I'd be curious about that because we are literally ringed on the western edge and to a certain extent the southern edge of the city by a bunch of these sort of planning areas.

So I don't see like it's North Bethesda, Potomac, Triviola, um blanking on another another one.

Um anyway, so I would be curious about that is basically census tracts that have a median household income of at least 150% of the countywide median household income at the time that well for them, the planning board accepts an application.

Um I would be I would be curious.

They go from 12 to 15 for those regions.

So it would be for us maybe 15 to 17 or something like that.

But what impact would that have on development?

Um, because again, our only real focus in the MPDU program is on um proximity to transit.

That's really not gonna do as much.

I think to kind of break the logjam of um higher incomes and lower incomes in the city.

Um and the racial disparities as well that are very acute, and especially when you look at census track data.

So that would be something interesting to look at.

Um I would be interested to know, because there is one that I am familiar with, but how many times have we seen projects where it comes in just under that threshold so that there's no PDUs that are required?

So I'm in I'm thinking of a couple off the top of my head, not gonna name and shame.

But I don't know if there's anything we can do in those circumstances, um, but that is a loss of MPDU units because the developer may or may not want to be doing that.

Um the other thing is, you know, maybe instead of um looking at more um uh regulations or restrictions, we look at higher incentives.

So what is an incentive that would um uh push a developer to build the MPDU unit and the market rate unit using the same materials.

There's a major project in the city where we know that that has occurred.

There is no difference between the MPDU unit and the market rate unit.

And um this is an entity with a pretty good track record.

So how is it possible that we can't that they can do it A, and you know, um that last I checked, they're still very much in the uh development industry.

I would like to see if there are ways that we could incentivize that and maybe make that a little bit uh more palatable, perhaps to folks.

I also am really tired of seeing the situations with the MPDU units throughout the city where um we see inherent issues with the site plan um inequities, and um any way that we can get ahead of that um I think would be really really helpful.

Um that's uh that's kind of where I'm I'm I'm trying to think of more positive ideas.

I think it's very easy to list the the issues.

I think it's always hard to come up with the solutions.

So I am for course I'm for including continuing to have IZ.

I think it's critical, and I am up for exploring any idea or option as long as we have all the information to make that decision.

So you have good uh you're good on two through four with nuances.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm really just saying, yeah, let's explore these things.

I'm I'm not necessarily off the the cuff saying no, because I'd like to dig in a little bit more and hear from staff more on these things too going forward.

Thank you, Councilmember Jackson.

Thank you, uh Mayor.

So let me uh start off by saying thank you for the presentation and all the work that you uh did uh to put it together.

Uh I think that it was uh I read through the the report and it was really thorough, and you had a lot of uh information and and sites uh and in the uh in the report.

I want to start off with a question uh about um uh you on you have a slide, a report findings, uh figure number two.

And I don't I don't know if you know the answer to this, maybe uh uh stuff uh does.

Um what happened in 2015 to make the uh number of MPDUs uh uh uh so high I'm not sure which project that would be.

Oh, I think it was like the town center part.

Many of those came online.

Townsquare, rather.

Um multiple of those came online around the town.

Yeah, I was just curious.

Thank you, Dr.

Miles.

All right, so um, I went last, but actually uh long ago uh I wrote down uh two uh things, a knee data, and it's nuanced.

So I think we all uh have repeated that uh uh those points uh ad nauseum, uh, but because I think it really it does need data and it is a nuanced question.

But I'll be brave.

Um I'm a yes on uh all the questions.

So one, two, three, and four, I'm a yes.

Uh I think we should do everything possible to uh increase the housing stock.

And uh I totally, totally associate myself with the commas of uh council member Van Grak.

I think we need to do everything possible at the uh at the uh um uh less uh amount of uh um oh gosh, uh AMI, and as the uh higher rates as well.

I think we need uh housing stock of all kinds uh because that is gonna make um our city uh more more uh diverse and um it's gonna lower the housing uh prices and uh the future councilmember Shaw.

Um so I just wanted to suggest um a model that they use in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Um Cambridge is similar size to Rockville, and um they also have um a housing scarcity problem as well.

Um and so in Cambridge they have uh an MPCU program um where they have uh a certain percentage for low income, and then they have a certain percentage for uh middle income or workforce or workforce or working class uh income.

Um and so I think it's something like 15 and 10, um uh 15 lower income and then 10 percent uh middle income.

And the reason they they separate that is because oftentimes the developer who's making the decision um will uh you know uh pick those that have the highest income.

So combining it all in one block.

Um you don't you you can sometimes price out folks that are middle income or you can um I'm sorry, you can price out folks that are lower income, and then also it provides stability for the middle income folks as well.

I'm not sure how they pencil that all out.

Um, but it it's just I just wanted to provide that as a suggestion um to help to maintain our workforce housing and that 10% um does serve like the teachers, civil servants, police, and and firefighters.

Would that be so 10 plus 15?

So that's 25%.

Yeah, yes, I have to go back to the numbers, but um there's a certain amount allotted for the different incomes.

Thank you.

I have a question that I had on my list too uh that relates, and I kind of talked about how do we get served people with um who are in the 30% to 50% AMI, and I rec recognize that live tech is an important part of that.

Um, it's not just gonna be Molly Price dwelling units.

Um I will share that I got a lot of pushback personally uh when we did the 50 and uh even had othering comments and I had to share while I was one of those people.

Um so I know Councilman Valerie remembers that discussion, Dr.

Miles as well.

Um, because we had those discussions, but I do think that we need to find ways to look at um both sides and I mentioned that comment as well.

So I appreciate the the note with balancing of we don't want no units, like we have sorry, we we do want some units, so we don't want to have such a chilling effect that nothing gets built.

Um but I did want to ask for you all.

I believe that you set aside um in talking to the previous housing director, they she was they there are some requirements of like how many are in the third the 50 and 80 and then 120.

But can you just describe that process of they they don't just get to pick through the range, but there's a certain amount of units.

Can you let us know how that is currently being done?

So what are you thinking?

There's nothing prescribed by the regulations, and so practices can change um as staff changes.

Um right now we go uh we put forth a recommendation to the developer on the outset for what we would like to see.

Um, and then the developer comes back to us with um their proposal of how they would want to adjust that, or maybe they accept our initial um initi initial proposal.

Um, but then it's a back and forth conversation that we have until we're eventually able to settle on something that both parties can agree to.

So uh there are designated percentages within the AMI, but it's a negotiation.

There are ones that we try to start with just in our practice, but there's nothing prescribed in the code or in regulations.

Um and I can't necessarily say that the ones that we're currently following.

I'm not sure whether or not those are the same as the previous director.

Um, but we try to we try to push for as many uh units at the lowest end of the um income spectrum as we can because we know that's where the greatest need is.

Thank you.

Yeah, and are you proposing that you will adjust the code to be more prescriptive on that?

Was that one of the examples of where you want to have more clients?

Exactly.

That's something that we're certainly interested in is having that be a part of either the code or regulations that we do have um certain percentages for certain incomes.

Okay.

That is helpful.

Um I appreciate you mentioning the housing needs assessment uh and seeing what data comes out of that.

Will they specifically analyze some parts of the Molly Price Dwelling Unit program so that we're getting some of the data that my colleagues have been talking about?

If they're not, we will ask them to.

Please do.

Okay.

Um I um wanted to check on a couple things.

I wrote down a review quote that I've read.

Um to get an MPDU, you need to be um to bribe a leasing agent or call every single day.

Um so I actually did work with a volunteer who called around just to see who had um units for rental.

And I know that we have an established process for the homeownership side.

Um, but on the rental side, it's frustrating.

I've personally experienced it.

I know a volunteer I work with did as well.

Um, and it's like, no, we don't keep a waiting, let's call back again tomorrow.

That's not that's not good customer service.

Uh people who are trying to find affordable housing is a challenge.

So I one of the questions I previously sent is would can we require a wait list for the rentals.

We could anything is possible, and we certainly want to look at all of those types of questions when we do this comprehensive rewrite.

Um, so that's something that um we intend to look at and to consider as well as what types of implications that would be for staff capacity.

Right, and it could be that I know that there's a staff capacity, it could also be that you're requiring them to keep a wait list.

I don't know, I'm not being prescriptive, but just saying there should be a wait list, and it shouldn't be that people have to call back every day.

That doesn't seem fair or or nice.

Um the other thing is it's always hard, and I know you guys try to negotiate like how many bedrooms are in you know, in each of the um new apartments that are being developed, and I just also want to explore how we can get some of those three bedrooms uh, which are hard to find, usually there's smaller units, and we have families who need access to these as well.

So I don't know if you've had time to think about or this is something you've already solved of how we could get more bedrooms uh so that we're having that diversity in the building going forward.

Not something we've solved yet, but certainly yet another thing that we want to think more about.

Okay.

There are a couple of issues we've experienced that make things hard to sell for homeownership or um create conflict or less than desirable conditions.

So we had experiences with garage issues or tandem parking, um, one bedroom, one bathroom in the entire town home, but you have to go all the way upstairs.

So are you proposing to look at that as well so that we are not just providing a unit but providing a usable unit for people?

Yes, and that's something that we're currently doing as well.

Um, this is a more macro question uh and maybe more of a planning question, but um, have we been able to project how many units we anticipate with our pipeline?

Um at this point, I would have to get back to you with those numbers and define exactly what we're looking at with the pipeline, but we can get back to you relatively soon with those numbers.

Okay, that will be really helpful.

I do think that I don't know what the frequency is.

I'm not I don't want to be prescriptive on that, and that's something I'd like your expertise on, but I think that we should have reflection points on you know how are we doing periodically with the policies we're putting in place.

Um we have permit, but are they actually getting built?

Uh so um just kind of looking at um some annual reporting uh or whatever that frequency is on units created, AMI served, um, geographic diversity, because some some jurisdictions also look at geographic equity mapping to see where units are being developed or not, um, so that we're not doing you know um surrogation in another way.

Um so I I just wanted to raise that um as well.

I do love that our city policy requires that there's they're not distinguishable from the exterior.

We also don't want to other people in their own community, so I I would like to see us keep that.

Um I mentioned the comments on the wait list already.

Um I tend to prefer the on-site MP MPVUs versus, you know, I it will be very hard for us to build and really with the money we're getting to build a new building.

So I just think that's a something we have to think through, and um, there may be some nuances there.

Um I also was curious about how ADUs would play into it's not necessarily an MPDU, but we talked about um housing strategies where we might incentivize affordable units and those kinds of um as well.

Like that I think there was a NAPA example that I had shared.

Um, but I think we have to think holistically because we're not gonna solve the problem with one strategy.

Um, but I I'm hopeful that staff is uh adding that to the list.

Um just looking at my list here.

Those are my major comments.

I think this is very well done.

I am excited about this uh, you know, that we're moving forward on our housing strategies, our 40-point housing strategies.

I think this is an important part of it.

Um there are some things in the comprehensive plan that I would like to get our current staff's understanding on what you like to do.

Um there's a comment about do we do 10 units uh versus 20?

So I don't know what that's the kind of balancing or are we are we not gonna get any housing because it's solo, or can we actually get more more affordable units?

Um the other issue that I think is important that I've heard from MPDU homeowners and an issue that was being explored is the 30-year requirement and whether that's an issue.

I also saw in the staff report there was a potential of like now a lot, not a lot of people to potentially take out HELOCs, uh home equity line of credits.

I have mixed feelings about that.

I don't want people foreclosing on their properties.

But I know that people sometimes take out home equity line of credits to help their kid go to school or to buy their next home.

That's I don't want to remove wealth building opportunities for people who are rising and progressing in life, also considering we don't want these to foreclose and not be used.

So I think that's a balancing act.

So I wanted to specifically comment on that.

Um the other piece is I've heard from MPDU homeowners is the life staging.

And so people who may have had MPDUs and now their children are grown or their seniors, they want to move to a smaller unit, but it's not financially, they're in the back of the list and not financially possible.

So I I think this is and this is not going to be solved today.

I know it's a statewide and maybe a national discussion is how do we incentivize right sizing housing for people through their life stages because that would free up a unit for a family who needs that three and four bedroom.

Um those are some of my top level.

I could talk for three hours on this, and I won't do that tonight.

Uh but I I want to say I appreciate all the thorough feedback on this, and I think there's a lot more to dig through.

Councilmember Shaw.

Um, and I'll be super quick.

Um, I just wanted to um add some a few data points that I was interested in, um, just to throw out there.

I wanted to see the impact of the um voucher program on uh the lower income uh need because I know that um there is less federal funding, but that's one program that HUD is not pushing back on.

So uh the voucher pro I wanted to see how that um the 30% AMI is impacted by the voucher program.

Also, in terms of those that are cost burdened, I tried to do the math myself, um, and I think it's around 17,000 uh 17,000 residents in Rockville, but it's good to get the overall scope so we can know how we're chipping away at that amount based on the units, based on everything that we're doing, so we can actually evaluate uh if we are actually improving the affordability in Rockville, and then um it would also be good uh throughout this whole uh our housing process to also look at the historic background.

Um I know we we spoke about the geographical segregation, but also like the racial segregation, um, urban renewal, racial covenants, all of that that has led to this point.

Um, and then also getting some data on the application attrition, like how many folks are starting the application and then they don't finish because I think there's a lot of barriers there.

Um, and I think that's one way to see um just the overall process and the experience of residents going through that.

And that's something that you may get when you have when you get your input session with um MPDU owners and renters.

You made me think of a couple other things.

I'll be really fast.

Um can we look at there?

That um are not built yet.

Do we poke and say, hey, what's going on with that?

Or is there a way to like incentivize to say you'll get this benefit, but only if you bill by?

I just we've got to get some of these units moving.

Um, I know that we have done some in 2024, and there's some in process.

We have some MPDU homeownership opportunities right now, if anyone's listening in the King Farm Farmstead, and there's more coming with Rockshire and Halpine, but we also because these do take some time, we got to start working on the next set.

And so I just want to see do we do anything to clear log jams or understand what the log jams are so that we can get that housing on the on in play for people?

And you talked about the vacancy rate, right?

We we do need to create more opportunity.

So I just wanted to see if that's if that's a possibility.

I think we will partner with um CBDS with that since they are the folks who are interacting and um having that dialogue with the development community and have the pipeline, but we can certainly partner with them on that.

Yeah, and then also I think related to this is how do we get more units?

We've got commercial vacant commercial space.

How do we convert that to housing?

And I think this body or you as experts, we needed a deeper discussion on this topic.

Vacant commercial buildings, it's not good for anybody, doesn't produce the job with the service, they write down their tax revenue, and so the city's not able to do as much programmatically because we have less from that building.

They write down their tax revenue, and so the city's not able to do as much programmatically because we have less from that building.

But if we can get housing in there, it's hitting a lot of different needs, and also creates impact tax for school development.

So there's a lot of play that we need to be thinking about how do we get that done.

Yeah, we're putting these up throughout the city, but what is that person need to succeed and thrive to the next level so that they can progress economically for their you know that just in terms of navigation.

So I I wanted to raise that it's that wraparound service is critical, and our schools are feeling it when we don't provide it.

Um the last thing to um the comments of some of my colleagues, the experience in trying to get one of these or trying to get a home.

A lot of people still don't know about MPDUs.

There needs to be more education, and the county does have regular education sessions and clear clear information, I think that we can add to our now new wonderful website to make that experience uh more easily understood and people more people know about it.

That's it for me.

Thank you.

Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I certainly support the comments of my colleagues on the uh workforce housing provision, they're getting the information out.

Um all sounds great.

I am mindful to the point I raised when I began rambling earlier.

Um I guess we're work sessions, I don't know if I can actually make motions during work session.

So if that's the case, I will uh defer.

I did also hear from city manager that sounds like a consultant will be hired more broadly to look at housing stuff.

Um I'm I'm open.

I think that if it's my only um point of difference, I think there was a um, I don't know if this was a thought experiment about making a change in this study at two years after.

I would want before making a changes to have make sure we're as well informed as possible.

Um, my preference would be to a specific, you know, consultant on this issue.

Um I'll I hear you and my colleague, you know, deferring to city staff and their expertise about what we need and don't need.

Uh so I'm open.

I that's my preference, but um I'll bring it up at the appropriate time as I do recognize this is a work session, so I'll um respect the form.

Thank you, Councilmember Van Greg, and then Councilman Shaw.

I would just like to um suggest to Councilmember Miles because I do definitely feel the consultant is necessary, and I heard what the city manager said.

Perhaps a motion can be made to ensure that the housing consultant that we do hire a specifically addresses the questions and data regarding these policies of inclusionary zoning that you want to address, and specifically if it isn't addressed properly, then we can potentially hire another consultant.

That way we ensure that we get the information we need.

And if we don't, that would just be my suggestion suggestion to Councilmember Miles with regard to where he was going, and I agree with Councilman Michelle.

Um, I I just also agree with my colleagues.

Um, I think that we do need a consultant to focus particularly on IZ.

Um, and I know that we're we're we're hiring a consultant around our needs assessment, but I think this is like a particular focus area.

Um, and I think this is like considering this is the strongest area where we are producing affordable units that we need to focus on this.

So, my preference would be for a consultant.

Councilman Valeri.

I think that um, no, and I appreciate everybody's perspective on this, um, Mr.

City Manager.

We have not had um a session or even a discussion on the upcoming housing needs assessment.

We had one broadly on um services needed in a grander scheme, but um I would even hesitate to say that what we're gonna get out of the housing needs assessment will not include the information that people are correctly requesting here because I don't know what that matrix looks like.

I do know that because it is within the HSAC purview, I would be more shocked than not that it would not include the information that we're looking for here.

So I would not want to advance the um the expense of an additional consultant if we have one that is an RFP has been put out, or we have somebody in place already that will be getting us to that same point.

Um so I just want to throw that out there that we're working in an information vacuum, so it's possible that you know um this is gonna be included.

Um, and just super quickly, um, and thank you to Madam Mayor for bringing up the impact taxes.

I think that is one of the the biggest challenges here in the city is that we work very hard to increase our impact taxes to invest in our schools, and then ultimately that decision is not in our hands, and the schools that are most in need do not get that.

So I'm just gonna put a flag on that because it is a frustration of mine, especially given recent events.

So um, yeah, going back to the housing needs assessment.

We don't know what we don't know up here, and I would say get the information of what is occurring right now, and then we can make a decision from there.

Thank you.

I support my colleagues and saying we need the data.

Um I would like to see how you plan to get it.

I will it would have to be through the housings assessment, and if it's not there to my colleagues' point, we're gonna need someone to dive dive deep.

Um, and how you get that done, I would you know, I know that you will figure that out.

But um, I I heard some things from my colleagues on um the housing needs assessment.

Yes, inclusionary zoning with MPDUs, but we also need to understand that MPDs will not create that more deeply affordable naturally, and so you are looking at LITEC, you are exploring impact on vouchers, um, and also thinking about our nonprofit players uh because they are providing significant numbers of units as well.

So I maybe you have that covered in the housing needs assessment, and that's why it makes sense to explore that together.

I you know, I'd love to hear um how you're gonna proceed on the housing needs assessment, you know, is when and is update going to be shared with the mayor and council.

You don't have to answer all that now, but I think that's something that we should learn more about the scope and timing.

Okay, Dr.

Miles.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I did have a question for um either the city clerk or uh the city attorney.

Are we able to make motions during work sessions?

Uh not, but she said no.

Okay, yes, ma'am.

I'll I'll come back to it at appropriate time, but again, as my colleague appropriately point out, defer to staff's judgment.

Uh Mr.

Mahalek.

So when we have broad discussions and work sessions, I I don't need direction from council through for a formal motion, voiceful to get direction from all of you.

So, yeah, but yes, you can make a motion and take a vote on things absolutely during work session.

It's just not always necessary for me to get direction like tonight.

I have a page full of notes, you know, to get us moving forward from work session to our next steps, you know, particularly related to our housing needs assessment.

I heard loud and clear about the need for additional data, particularly as we think about different options for this.

So I I heard that loud and clear.

Um, but yes, the mayor council can make um motions in a work session.

It's just not um absolutely necessary to give me direction.

Thank you.

Mr.

Mahillick, just to uh ease the concerns of my colleagues um in terms of will you be sharing some information with us on the housing needs assessment, the approach and how you're planning to get that additional data and analysis so we're not making mistakes on policy as much as we can and are going with as much evidence-based data as possible.

Yes to inform a policy.

So you're gonna come back to us.

Yes, and then there may be an opportunity to say we want something different.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

Okay, all right.

We're committing that to each other.

Okay.

To our uh DCD team.

Is there anything else that you would like clarifying information?

I know we give you probably more than you anticipated.

So not at this point, but thank you.

Okay, all right.

So now we're moving on to our mock agenda.

Does anyone have comments or questions?

Okay, seeing none.

Old new business.

Okay.

Does anyone make a want to make a motion to adjourn?

Councilmember Valeri.

Madam Mayor, I move that we adjourn for the evening.

Councilmember Shaw.

I second.

All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

And I want to acknowledge that we are ahead of schedule.

Thank you, team.