Good evening and welcome to the City of Rockville Historic District Commission meeting number 10-2025.

Today is Thursday, November 20th, 2025.

I am HDC Chair Anita Neo Powell.

I am joined by my fellow commissioners, Seth Dimbo, Peter Falseman, who's absent today, and Michael Golfinger and Mercy Shingai.

We are also joined by city staff.

Oh, I'm sorry, he is here.

He's he's uh meeting with us virtually.

Smile.

Okay.

Sheila Percieri, preservation planner, Cynthia Walters, Deputy City Attorney, and Katie Gerb is comprehensive planning manager.

The historic district commission are conducting hybrid meetings, applicants and the public may join the meeting virtually via WebEx when person in the Mayor and Council chambers at Rockville City Hall in 111 Maryland Avenue.

The virtual meetings can be viewed on Rockville 11, Channel 11 on County Cable, and live stream at Rockville, WWW.

Rockville MD.gov slash Rockville 11.

Each meeting is also available for viewing soon after the meeting is held at WW.Rockville MD.gov slash video on demand.

The first item on the agenda is number one committee and organization report, starting with Peerless Rockville.

Is there anyone here from Peerless Rockville staff to give a staff report?

No.

Okay, thank you.

The next organization report on the agenda is the Lincoln Park Historical Foundation.

I am the president of the foundation, and I do not have a report to give tonight.

We will now move on to item C public comments and open forum.

This time is set aside for members of the public who want to comment on any non-agenda item.

Is there anyone from the public waiting to comment on any issue not on the agenda?

Yes.

Please come forward and state your name for the record.

We'll disclosure.

I don't know what's on the agenda, but I'm assuming this is not.

This is a time for public comment, and we you will have three minutes to speak.

Okay.

Um hello.

My name is Gene O'Mara, and I'm a proud caretaker of this door comm on 419.

Excuse me, one second, okay.

So how do I can somebody keep the time for me for three minutes?

Because I don't know how to do this.

Put on the clock for three minutes.

I'm sorry, just one moment.

The clock is at the staff table.

Um it's right by the door.

Okay.

There you go.

Okay, I'm so sorry.

Please come back.

All right, three seconds in already.

All right.

Hello.

My name is Gene O'Mara.

I am a proud caretaker of a historic home in Rockville for almost 30 years at 419 West Montgomery Avenue.

Uh, as with many homeowners who live in Rockville, I've been faced with tremendous deer pressure over the last many years.

I am not here to make a referendum on deer tonight.

I'm not here to talk about why the city has abandoned all deer mitigation efforts.

I am here with a solution to mitigate the effects on the homeowners.

I'm not here with some wacky recommendation.

I'm coming to you with the solution that Montgomery County has had in place since 2003.

They were on the forefront of tackling this issue we now face.

I'm asking the HEC and the mayor and council to consider adapting, adopting the Montgomery County Deer Fencing Amendment that has been in effect for the last 22 years.

And let me clarify this would not be changing any zoning.

This would be an additive amendment amendment as the Montgomery County did, keeping in place any current fence guidelines, but adding in an additional fence guideline.

I've come to this recommendation due to the frustration I am personally facing, as well as the frustration of many of my neighbors who are seeking common sense, reasonable, discrete, and effective ways to alleviate the property damage and health implications by the heavy deer load in Rockville.

Let me be clear, it has now become severe property damage and truly serious health risks at the exposure of deer ticks and Lyme's disease.

I'm going to remind us how we got here, but I want to offer the solution that is common sense, reasonable, discreet, and effective, and already been in effect for the last 22 years with Montgomery County for Montgomery County homeowners.

I'm asking that the City of Rockville allow the homeowners of Rockville to be afforded the same protection against deer damage that the 2023 2003 Montgomery County Amendment affords.

In 2003, the ordinance provided an exception to the general height limit for fences, which were typically six and a half feet or less, due to the specific need for taller barriers to be effective to deter to deter deer.

They recommend eight feet-high open mesh, nearly invisible fencing to be permitted.

The amendment permits property owners to install deer fencing in both their sides and backyards and on corner lots for it to be allowed as long as it doesn't extend farther than forward of the house.

Due to the lack of deer mitigation on the part of the city of Rockville and this unforeseen variable when I purchased my historic home, I believe that the city has a responsibility to protect our public safety from the serious health risks due to the exposure to deer tech lime, as well as recognize the severe damage that is occurring and only will increase.

Since I only got 11 seconds left, I won't go into how heavy the 20850 problem is with limes, as well as the deer load of 400 animals per square mile that is seen in Monk uh in Maryland when our density can only be 25 or 30.

It doubles every two years left on check.

Latitude must be granted to homeowners in the city of Rockville that own both historic homes and non-historic homes, homeowners that have corner lots or non-corner lots due to this unprecedented deer pressure.

As I mentioned earlier, the deer population doubles, doubles every two years without mitigation.

Under those conditions, homeowners that bring reasonable, discrete, low impact remedies should be granted exceptions and variances to stop the destructiveness of this situation.

Guidelines must keep up with the changing needs and challenges of homeowners face today, regardless of what year their house is built, placement on the property, or whether or not they have a corner lot.

All homeowners should be afforded the same protection.

I urge the city of Rockville to adopt what is already commonplace for the last 22 years with Montgomery County.

Okay, thank you very much.

So we would now move on.

Do you have copies for the commissioners?

I would like to eat, I was because I was preparing this for the Murring Council.

I can email you, and it has links to all of the relevant information.

Um, what the um it provides.

Um can I email that tonight to you guys?

Yeah, you can email it to Sheila.

Okay.

Madam Chair.

This one low.

Okay.

Um, Commissioner Falsen.

Thank you.

Just a quick comment.

Uh the applicant should consider attending one of the West End um civic association meetings.

Um the boss that lives in my house is on the board of the Western Civic Association, and this has been an ongoing topic.

And so she is a member living where she lives, if I understood the address correctly.

So just that comment.

Thank you.

I have been adjoining me over the last 15 years.

She says she's been with them for the last 15 years.

So thank you.

Any comments?

Okay.

See now we will move on to item D, HDC and staff comments.

Are there any announcement or comments from the commissioners?

Commissioner Goldfinger.

Okay.

Um Good evening.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh, as I've been doing for the last several months, uh, featuring a different historic building within the city.

Uh, just a brief summary of it in the hopes that it increases awareness among our citizens of the historic um treasures that uh that surround us.

Umly county government functions originally housed in the red brick courthouse, which I spoke about several months ago, continued to grow, eventually outgrowing the old building.

This growth, however, established Rockville as the center of county government despite the greater growth in the lower county.

Accordingly, in 1930, the state provided funding for a courthouse addition and demolition started in the block bounded at that time by Court, Jefferson, and Washington Streets and Montgomery Avenue.

The neoclassical style courthouse existing today, faced with gray limestone, provided offices for county commissioners and clerk of the court, as well as rooms for judges and records, jail cells on the top floor, and a large courtroom.

Plans called for extensions on either side of the great courthouse.

One such plan never executed, envisioned the replacement of the red brick courthouse.

Decades later, between 1960 and 1984, both courthouses survived the demolition of more than 100 buildings in the guise of urban renewal.

The Great Courthouse was the site of the case of Gibbs versus Broom et al.

The case filed in 1936 was brought by William B.

Gibbs Jr., a teacher and principal of the Rockville College Elementary School, taking the issue of equal pay to court.

The suit claimed that black educators who met the same qualifications as white teachers deserve equal pay.

Mr.

Gibbs was represented by Thurgood Marshall, an NAACP attorney, who later became the first African American Supreme Court Justice, and by Charles Houston, former vice dean of the Howard University Law School.

Before the case went to trial, Edwin Broome, the county superintendent of schools, convinced the school board to settle out of court and to phase in equal pay over a two-year period.

Since the case never went to trial, it set no legal precedent.

However, it led eventually to the Supreme Court decision in Brown versus Board of Education.

As to William Gibbs, he was fired from the county public schools the following year on a technicality and never taught in Maryland again.

So a little bit of uh history in our city.

Excellent.

Excellent.

Thank you.

I'm glad you put in um I'm very much aware of that case, and I'm glad that you mentioned the fact that it was, you know, settled outside and actually led to all of the other Brown versus Board of Education, the other five states.

So thank you very much for doing that.

Appreciate it.

Oh, my pleasure.

Are there any other comments?

Come in the commissioners.

I I have I have two, I have one and a half questions.

First, I want to um comment about the deer mesh.

And I don't know if I should do it at this point or bring it up as new business.

Okay.

The second point is uh members of the HDC received an invitation to have one member to participate on a community interview panel for the director of community planning and development services.

I know one commissioner has expressed his interest in participating on the panel.

Is anyone else interested in participating?

Is that a no?

Okay.

Who's the presidential?

Oh, I'm gonna tell you in a minute.

If there are no there's no one else interested in participating.

Okay.

I will I'll turn the email again.

I'll let you know.

But I'm I'm gonna tell you who it is.

I will I'll take that email again, I'll let you know.

Okay.

So if there are no objections, and I don't know if it is, I would like to send the name of Vice Chair Peter Falcman to the city manager to represent HDC on the community interview panel.

And you have an interest in it as well.

So I'll let you know.

But for now, let's leave it out.

Okay.

I'm not sure this point, so I'll let you know.

So that's a show.

I think it's December 9th.

Is when they're gonna have an all-day meeting from 9 to 4 at Glenview Mansion.

That's what I believe.

Okay.

So my next um comment is about the deer mash.

Is there an established policy regarding the use of deer mesh on historic properties?

Deer mash should be considered separately from permanent fencing, with clear distinction between the two.

Additionally, I know I heard that there was a petition related to this matter.

So what I would like to ask staff to do is to research and to find out or to look into it to find out um what is do we have a policy on Deer Mesh?

I know we have it on Fencing, but I'm not sure about that.

Specifically on Deermesh, we do not.

Okay.

So can we um staff come back at our next meeting so we can discuss it?

And I know you see.

Is there a specific ask you have of staff to prep for that meeting or simply to put this as an agenda item on our December meeting?

You could well prefer because we I would like to know where what we can do in terms of that in terms of our policy.

Because I know there's some zoning issues.

I know there's other departments involved with this, so and how do we fit into that bucket?

Okay.

Are there any other questions or comments?

Is it is this an HDC matter in any way?

I guess if it's if the houses are in the in the histor in a historic district, it could potentially be, but it doesn't.

I don't know.

We have your message is just like it's netting.

I mean, it's we're not talking about fencing, really even so we've had this come up quite a few times in the last few years with properties within various historic districts in the city.

We have always interpreted deer fencing to be fencing.

So in that instance, just like any other exterior alteration, there would need to be a certificate of approval.

The technical guides that we have that govern fencing do not differentiate between um like a permanent fence and a deer fencing.

But it is an exterior alteration, which as you all know in our code right now needs to come to the HDC.

There's separate zoning issues that regulate where fences can be, how high fences can be, etc.

That's less of an HDC thing and more of a zoning ordinance item.

Thank you, Katie.

Okay, so next on the agenda is number two, consent agenda.

Consent agenda items may be approved per the staff report without discussion.

However, any person may request that the chair remove an item from the consent agenda for discussion and public comment before the vote.

We have several items on the consent agenda.

We have the approval of minutes for October 16, 2025, and October 30th, 2025.

Would any of the commissioners like to pull anything off of the agenda for discussion?

No.

Okay.

Okay, so the next item on the agenda is number three, certificate of approval.

We need to we need to vote on the consent agenda.

But you didn't pull anything off, so but we still have to vote on the consent agenda and approving the consent agenda.

Okay.

So is there a motion to approve the consent agenda?

I move to up with the consent agenda.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

All in favor of the motion to approve the consent agenda.

Raise your hand to say aye.

Aye.

Vote all the chair also vote aye.

And the motion passes five to zero.

So the next item on the agenda is number three, certificate of approval.

A 2026-185 COA.

Applicant is Marcus Ramdir, Leon Pro Service, LLC, and Keith Reza owner.

Address is 301 Anderson Avenue.

He requests a specific certificate of approval to construct an enclosed rear porch.

Ms.

Vaziri, is there a report or update on this application?

No, there's not.

The actual applicant asked to be removed for the agenda from the this particular agenda, and they will be coming back to us at a later date.

Okay.

Did you receive any correspondence?

All right, thank you.

So the next item on the agenda would be for discussion.

Um business.

Is there a staff report or any comments?

We do not have a staff report.

Um, this is added to the agenda based on our discussion October 30th, I believe it was, um, where the commission wanted to review the updated King Farm Farm Steadmaster Plan and discuss if they wanted to make any comment to the mayor and council.

Okay.

So I'd turn it over to commissioners if anybody has any um thoughts or comments that they'd like to share.

No comments here.

I have some, madam.

Okay.

Um so I sat down and read through it all.

Um, I thought the um the changes and the updates were were good, were and were a definite improvement.

They they seem to be taking on board what Mayor and Council asked them to do, and and I think it it benefits the property from the historic.

I mean, I know what we're looking at is a master plan.

I'm not even sure it's that.

It's a kind of they're calling it that, but it's much more of a of a proposal and that a very open proposal that has a lot of there's a lot of.

I mean, in general, I think it it looks good.

I my personal view is that it's a good plan.

Um the devil is in the details, and I think we should um, and given that we know that Mayor and Council want to hear from us on this on this issue, I would like to see us sort of you know applaud Marin Council for moving forward with this for you know getting us this far.

I think I think the the proposal in terms of what it does for sort of historic preservation of the property in terms of maintaining the historic look along the along the drive, the original drive, and the the viewsheds along there is good, but I also think um that the plan the plan needs to recognize that many people will see the the will view this property from the outside, and I think you know, when they come back to us, that's going to be an issue, right?

Because you know, it's gonna be about you know the maintaining the Secretary of Interior's standards and you know um what's the phrase we use a lot is is um sort of uh spatial relationships in the property.

Um I mean we don't say circulation, but the way in which the way in which circulation happens.

Um so I think we should we should say something about that to Marin Council and about how we we um we want to make sure that they are they are aware of those.

Um, you know, I mean I know any good architecture firm will be aware of those and and thinking about them, but in particular, I think there's some to my mind, um this Secretary of Interiors guidelines one, nine, and ten were particularly relevant in this case.

Um I think we should uh we should urge Mayor and Council or you know, to we should urge the process to include a uh a courtesy review so that we're involved and to keep us involved throughout the process.

I mean, it's this is a huge project, you know, 30 million dollars, close to 30 million dollars over a decade.

You know, we're not even this almost a decade long project that's being planned here.

Um so you know, asking us them to keep us involved and recommending they come for a courtesy review, and then you know, before the actual before we're actually asked to rule on it, I think is a good idea.

Um the one thing that I think is not in here that I think really should be in here is that you know, given what the people who participated in the um in the sort of visioning project said, you know, we we've been shown this multiple times how how important history and the preservation of that history is to the people who you know to the community.

I would really like to see some more information, and maybe this comes a bit more down the line about how history will be preserved.

And I'm not just talking about the buildings, I'm talking about education about Rockville's past, about the history of the property, about agricultural history of Rockville.

Um I think that more or less covers what I wanted to say.

Um I think they punted on the parking a bit.

We talked about this last time.

I think Pete brought it up in particular.

Um they've they've sort of they've tried to reduce parking on site and and looked at ways in the plan.

You know, that's one of the biggest changes, I think, to the plan, the way in which they've tried to kind of say, okay, well, you know, we've got we're gonna try and keep minimize the parking as much as possible because there's like possible overflows in other other parts of the of King Farm.

So I think they've they've they've addressed that a bit, and I think that is important for us from the point of view of we don't want the you know all of these viewsheds to be taken up with with vast car parks.

But I understand car parking is important, right?

Like you can't have a facility like this without having parking.

Um I think that more or less covers it.

One of the in terms of what I had said about um about view sheds, I I did some some some Googling and um like this is the the view from for the benefit of my fellow commissioners.

This is the um street view of um looking from Elmcroft Boulevard.

Right now it looks really pastoral and rural.

It doesn't, whereas, and that's gonna be completely altered.

So that's one example of of the kinds of things I'm talking about with this this bridge that they're planning and this pavilion and everything.

So um this entry area.

So anyway, that's what I've got to say.

Any other comments?

Thank you for that.

I know it alveas meeting.

Commission Commissioner Falsen.

Thank you, madam chair.

I just want to thank Seth for his comments.

Um, I agree 100%, although some of it kind of went over my head because Seth is knows a little bit more than I do.

But um I just want to reiterate my concern for um tree preservation and too much parking.

And so when there are new parking spaces, if they could do pervious materials to help, you know, better the environment.

So that's my only comment.

Appreciate the staff's improvements on the plan though.

So thank you.

Okay, you're welcome.

Any other comments.

So I know at our last meeting or previous meeting, we said we wanted to send a letter to the mayor and council before their December 8th meeting.

So are you all willing to still do that?

I think the comments that Commissioner Umbo made should be included.

I mean you said a lot.

So you did, but can you draft this?

Yes.

It would make it easier.

Mike, please.

Sorry.

I gotta get better at that.

Um, yeah, I can I can make that more concise if that would help.

Um I um I think we should, I think we should be positive.

I think you know, there's a there will there will come a time when we can tear this apart if we if we feel we need to as a as a commission, and we have a formal role in this.

I think we should mostly be positive and say, you know, we want to stay involved, please include us throughout the process through um, you know, and make sure that you are paying attention to things like the Secretary of the Interior's guidelines.

I think that that's that that should be the focus of the letter from my point of view.

If people agree with that, I can put together some notes for staff to draft something.

Okay, thank you.

So we have till the eighth, that's when they're discussing it.

Obviously, you need more time than that, but I can get this to you in the next one.

Yeah, December 8th is when the meeting happens.

I love to send it like the week prior, if we can, just so they have like the weekend to digest it.

Um, so work with me, Seth.

I think once we get your comments, I took some notes on what you said as well, but you know, staff can turn that around the next day and get a draft out.

I'll get you some notes in the next few days.

Thank you.

Appreciate your appreciate your work on this.

Thank you as well.

All your comments and your research.

So the next item on the are there, any other comments.

The next item on the agenda is be new business, a draft HDC meeting calendar for 2026.

So is there an update or are you okay with the new dates for 2026?

Yes, right.

They're already in my calendar.

Oh, okay.

Do we need to take a motion?

Okay.

Is there a motion to approve the draft HDC meeting calendar for 2026?

Um, I move that we approve the uh 2026 um historic district commission calendar for meetings.

Okay, Commissioner Goldfinger, is there a second?

Okay, Commissioner Singhai.

All in favor of approving the HCC minutes meeting calendar for 2026, raise your hand.

Motion passes five to zero.

Um the next item on the agenda is number five is to adjourn.

Is there a motion to adjourn the meeting?

I want to say something.

So we do have a historical week preservation month coming up in May next year.

So when they'll begin to prepare for that specifically event.

So we do have basically just five months to prepare.

So I mean, I think the first step here, we probably don't need to do prep work quite this early, but we certainly can.

I think the first step would be you all as a body identifying if there is like a theme or a topic that seemed to have worked well in the past two years that we kind of concentrated around some sort of theme there.

Um, and then once you all give some directions, staff can certainly do some brainstorming.

And if anyone in this body has ideas, um, we can start putting wheels in motion, gathering speakers, etc.

Okay, thank you.

So can we have um two commissioners to volunteer to co-chair the preservation conference for May of 2026?

Yeah, I can vote.

I'll vote it too.

Is there another person?

Uh you can think about it.

Yeah, yeah, you can think about it.

So have you thought about it?

No.

Too tired to think tonight.

Okay.

So we'll bring it up again that we'll put it on the agenda for next month.

Okay.

So if there's nothing else, oh, is there a motion to admit?

Commissioner False, yeah.

Sorry, I know it's annoying to be virtual.

Uh just a suggestion.

Uh, we had talked the last time about uh switching or or changing up where we do this event, and then we the last one was successful in a new location.

I would suggest that we do it um at the Glenview Mansion this year if possible when the mansion's available good idea.

So we'll put that on the agenda as our location for the preservation conference.

Commissioner Goldfinger.

I'm sorry, are you finished?

Commissioner False Falsaman.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um yeah, excellent.

Uh excellent suggestion.

Is it too early to start looking into available dates of the Glenview Mansion?

I don't think it's too early.

It might be too late.

We will look into that.

Wedding season is very popular at the mansion.

Um we can look into dates.

I think it will largely depend on time of day and day of week.

Um, I know weekends are very busy for proms, graduations, weddings, things of that nature there.

So we may need to look at perhaps having it on a weekday evening as opposed to on a weekend because um, or no, we're not doing Sunday.

Okay, so uh maybe no, on a maybe on a week uh day evening, just because when I've tried to get the mansion before, and in fact, uh it's been several years ago, but in May, they were totally booked up because of Chris uh wedding season.

They're showing it now.

People are planning, you know.

So people plan a year in advance almost, so I think that that's yeah.

So we'll try, but I think we can have a better chance of getting it if it's not on a weekend.

Okay, thank you.

Is there anything else before we really adjourn?

No, no, no.

No, okay.

So if there's nothing else, I wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving and continue to stay safe.

This meeting is adjourned.

We need to we need a motion.

Did we get a motion?

Is it moved?

Oh motion, move to adjourn the meeting.

All in favor to adjourn the meeting.

Aye.

And if there's nothing else, do we have proposals for next time?

Sorry, I didn't, because I thought we were adjourned, but I guess we're still on TV.

Um, do we have proposals for next month?

We will.

We have at least one courtesy review.

We might have another.

Okay.

Oh, I don't know.

Come in.

We will have things for a meeting next month.

I don't believe we have any um like formal quasi-judicial certificate of approvals.

Okay, done.

Okay.

Okay.