Come here.

Vice Chair, we're ready when you are.

Thank you very much.

So, good evening, everyone, and welcome to the January 21st.

The meeting will now be called to order, is now called to order.

Will the clerk please call the roll to establish a quorum?

Yes, thank you, Vice Chair.

Commissioners, if you can please unmute your microphones.

Commissioner Treat is absent.

Commissioner McDole?

Present.

Commissioner Snell is absent. Commissioner Verga? Present. Commissioner Middleton? Present. Commissioner Hayes is absent. Commissioner Berrigan is currently absent. Commissioner Bell? Here. Commissioner Benedict? Here. Commissioner Bagley? Here. Commissioner Christie? Here. Commissioner Few? Here. Commissioner Garcia? Here. And Vice Chair Morris? Here. Thank you. We have a quorum. Thank you so much.

so as per the usual we would like to remind members of the public who are in

chambers that if you would like to speak on an agenda item please turn in a

speaker slip and when the item begins you will have two minutes to speak once

you're called upon after the first speaker we will no longer accept speaker

slips and with that we'll now proceed with today's agenda we'll start with the

land acknowledgement and everyone please rise and Commissioner Bell will lead us

in the land acknowledgement. Okay please rise for the opening acknowledgement in

honor of Sacramento's indigenous people and tribal lands. To the original people

of this land the Nisanan people, the southern Maidu, Valley and Plains Miwok,

Putwin-Wintoon peoples and the people of the Wilton Rancheria, Sacramento's only federally

recognized tribe. May we acknowledge and honor the Native people who came before us and still

walk beside us today on these ancestral lands by choosing to gather today in the active

practice of acknowledgement and appreciation for Sacramento's indigenous peoples history,

contributions and lives. Thank you. Now we will start with the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for

which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you Commissioner Bell.

so we have a few new commissioners here today and uh with the clerk's uh support and adding

this to the agenda we would like to start at this end and let the new commissioners introduce

themselves starting with jamie please hey good evening everyone my name is jamie mcdoll i am

a rn case manager over at uc davis and have been a long time uh animal activist around sacramento

volunteering at Front Street as well as fostering both from Front Street from

SAS as well as from Apple Valley down in Southern California.

Julie. Hi my name is Julie Verga and I'm a native Sacramento and I'm a real

estate broker but really my my main profession is helping animals and I have

nonprofit called Fix Our Shelters and I'm looking forward to working with all

of you fellow commissioners this year. I'm very excited that we're all going to

be able to make such a difference in animals lives together and I appreciate

all of you advocates who are here today. I see many of you who help animals on a

regular basis and it really does take a village and it takes all of us coming

together to be the voice for those who have none to really make a difference

and I must say this in my lifetime and I'm a lifelong animal lover I've never

seen conditions so bad on the streets or in the shelters and and so it's more

vital than ever that we are all here making a difference and that we show up

for these meetings and continue all of us to do whatever we can to help animals

So thank you.

Kelly, please introduce us.

Thank you.

Unmute the mic.

Thank you.

I'm Kelly Benedict.

I've been in Sacramento for about 30 years now, and I am a commercial pilot by trade, but I am a longtime animal rescuer and advocate.

In fact, I've been rescuing animals probably since I was seven, since my mother would allow me to do so.

but recently in the past few years I did

form a non-profit called Pilots and Pups where we provide

transport for rescues and shelters to get

dogs out of the shelters on their at-risk dogs

out of shelters and you know I've

always wanted to do more to help animals because even with all the

pups that we save it's like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound

It just never ends.

And my goal for Pilots and Pups, if it could ever happen, which I wish it would one day,

is to go out of business so that all the animals have homes.

So that's what my pie-in-the-sky goal is.

Will I ever see it?

Maybe not in my lifetime.

But I want to do more and keep the ball rolling to save as many dogs and cats as we can.

So I'm grateful to be here and work with the other commissioners.

And looking forward to getting a lot done for the animals in our community.

So thanks.

Thanks for having me.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome.

So we'll just start on with the agenda then.

The first item is the consent calendar,

which essentially includes the Animal Wellbeing Commission meeting minutes of the November meeting.

Do we take public comment on this?

I can never remember.

We do take public comment and at this time we do not have any speakers for this item.

Okay. Are there any commissioners who have questions or comments on this item?

Just to let folks know, there's a button on your screen that says request to speak.

So just in case you want to know how this works, you just push that button.

But I'm not seeing any. Oh, Kathleen Garcia has come up.

No, she's not. Okay.

Okay, since I don't see any questions on the consent calendar, do I have a motion to approve

the consent calendar?

Kathy Garcia has moved.

Do I have a second?

I second.

Denise Bell moves that.

So all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All those opposed, say nay.

The ayes have it.

We have accepted the consent calendar, which also then is our annual report for the City Council P&PE.

The next item is our discussion calendar.

So item two is a presentation, City of Sacramento Commission Rules and Procedures Overview,

which will be presented by our wonderful city attorney, Carson Vander Linden.

Yes, hello everybody.

First, just a kind of technical question.

I don't have the presentation up on the computer in front of me.

Is there someone who would be able to do a slide switcher?

Oh, perfect.

So while he's doing that...

that commissioners where it says projector a towards the bottom of your

screen if you touch on that you should get the slides up and if you actually

touch on the slide it'll go full screen does that help y'all okay excellent now

that the technical piece is out of the way hello everybody it's good to see old

and new faces here for those of you who don't already know who I am and we

haven't been formally introduced. My name is Carson Vander Linden. I'm a deputy city attorney

for the city of Sacramento and among other things I serve as general counsel for animal care services

and I sit on the animal well-being commission to provide the commission with legal advice when and

where necessary. So like last time I just wanted to start off by thanking each and every one of

you for being here on this commission and doing the work of this commission. Your involvement and

your engagement helps to make the important work that is done here possible and it just couldn't

get done without you all and your participation so thank you sincerely so

we have a couple new members and because of that I think that it's prudent to

have this training again even though we had it a couple months ago just because

you know it's always good to review some of the important law kind of surrounding

these Commission meetings their conduct expense expectations and the tools that

are at our disposal so

Point it at this screen.

Does he point the clicker?

This is where the slide is supposed to change.

Oh, it's off, so that probably is the problem.

Okay, awesome.

So just a quick overview of the topics we're going to cover.

First, we're going to talk about the scope of the AWC.

Then we're going to talk about the roles of the commission and the roles of staff,

a little bit about the Brown Act, a little bit about public comment rules and procedures.

Then we're going to talk about general parliamentary procedure and the council rules of procedure,

do a little bit of a review of the Political Reform Act,

and then last bit, which is going to be new, is a follow-up log and agenda setting section

so that we can kind of review that.

And Mindy has thankfully volunteered herself to be able to give us a couple more details

and some guidance on those procedures.

So let's start off with the scope of the Animal Wellbeing Commission.

So talking about what exactly the commission is designed to do or its subject matter jurisdiction,

I think is a good place to start us off just so everyone's on the same page, both members and the public.

So what exactly is the subject matter jurisdiction and what is the scope of the AWC?

Let's run through it together.

And for those of you that kind of want to follow along with the actual city code,

That city code section is 2.86.030, and that's where all the information on this slide is coming from.

So the scope of the Animal Wellbeing Commission.

The commission is established for the purpose of providing advice and recommendations to the city council on strategies, policies, and programs designed to ensure and enhance animal care services provided by the city of Sacramento.

And then it lists a couple of examples of this.

Assisting people and their pets staying together.

caring for animals in city facilities, providing low-cost spay-neuter services,

and helping the shelter meet or exceed industry standards.

The commission also is tasked with promoting awareness of programs

at the city's Animal Care Services Center and Front Street Shelter,

animals available for adoption, the importance of spay and neuter services,

the importance of pet medical care, such as vaccines, and the volunteer program.

Additionally, the commission is to serve as a community liaison and as a public forum, which is what we're doing right now.

They're also tasked with advising the city council on ordinances and state legislation and making reports and recommendations to council regarding animal well-being strategies, programs, and services.

So just looping back to that piece on advising the council.

Okay.

Just a quick note.

There's been some recent discussion about the status of the commission as an independent body.

and I think independence kind of means different things to different people,

but I added this note simply to clarify that relationship between commission and staff.

It's not necessarily an independent body so much as the commission is empowered to provide recommendations and advice to city council,

but it is staff that ultimately determines what items are agendized for future meetings.

So just a point of clarification there.

Okay.

Now we're moving on to the Brown Act.

So this is going to be the most important piece of legislation controlling the work that you do here and every city commission does.

This is the state law that dictates how public meetings are supposed to run.

So just a quick introduction, quick history.

Michael Harris, reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle, he learned that local public agencies were routinely barring reporters and citizens from meetings that were supposed to be open.

And this was occurring in city governments, in county governments, in school boards, in irrigation districts, everywhere.

And so eventually, in 1952, he writes this 10-part series called Your Secret Government, where he was able to actually catch the attention of reformers in the legislature.

And the result was this open meetings law of 1953, which was authored by Assemblyman Brown, and that's why we call it the Brown Act.

Okay, so the Brown Act states that public bodies exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business and should conduct deliberation and take action publicly.

All meetings of legislative bodies shall be open and public.

All persons shall be permitted to attend any meeting of the legislative body.

The basic idea behind the Brown Act, and it's an important idea, is that the public's business needs to be conducted in public.

The right to access is broad, with information and processes being available, open, and transparent.

And this is sort of emphasizing this deeper principle of the importance of people and their role in validating government,

as opposed to government having, you know, power over the people to exclude them from business that affects them.

The Act applies to all meetings, regardless of whether any official action is even taken, and that includes this commission.

so talking about legislative bodies this is an important distinction under the act so what is

the legislative body that's the council their subcommittees and bodies created by the city

council and that includes this commission here then there's also yeah appointed bodies which

is like our commission uh in addition to all city boards commissions committees

and standing committees count as well but note that ad hoc committees are not technically brown

act bodies and therefore don't have the same kinds of rigid requirements to

follow and just a note on ad hoc committees here because I know that we

have created some in the past on this Commission so these are formed by the

chair during a public meeting who will also appoint its members you can't have

more than a quorum of the Commission as members of the ad hoc committee you must

have a limited purpose focusing on a specific task or issue so it can't just

be about a bunch of different things it has to be very focused it can exist for

no more than one year, so limited focus and limited time. You can't have a meeting schedule

fixed by the commission. Members cannot discuss ad hoc business with commission members who are

not on the ad hoc except at a public meeting. The ad hoc can't speak for the commission. They can

only advise the commission. And then when the ad hoc's business is concluded or when it expires,

it must provide a summary and disillusion report to the commission basically saying,

here's what we did this is the content of what we worked on and then for more

information the city has an administrative policy for ad hoc

committees and it has more details there if you need a copy of that I can provide

it to you so the 2008 legislation gave meetings of legislative bodies a pretty

broad definition and this applies directly to the Brown Act the prior

definition focused on collective concurrence but it was updated so

basically now we are in a position where any gathering of a quorum of the

legislative body to hear discuss deliberate or take action on a matter

within the agency subject matter jurisdiction is gonna count as a

meeting so this is why I have some of these items next to the table here these

meetings can include oral collective briefings it can include even something

as simple as hitting reply all on an email. It's important to be careful that if there is discussion

that is happening regarding the business of the commission that it is open in public and that's why

sometimes we can run into problems. So some examples of that would be improper serial meetings.

So there's lots of activities that could constitute an improper meeting. A quorum of the legislative

body shall not, outside of a meeting, pursue a series of communications of any kind directly

or through intermediaries to discuss, deliberate, or take action on any item of business that

is within the agency's jurisdiction.

So a serial meeting is a series of communications, each of which has less than a quorum, but

when you take it as a whole, it ends up involving a quorum of the members.

So the problems with serial meetings is the process, which deprives the public of an opportunity for meaningful participation in legislative body decision-making.

So I have two different ways that this can happen on screen right now.

One way is this yellow box, the daisy chain.

That's when one member communicates to another member regarding the business of the legislative body,

and then that member expresses to another member, who in turn expresses such to another member,

until a majority of members have discussed

and possibly established a preferred course of action

regarding the business

before there was any sort of public meeting.

The second way is spoken hub.

And that's when you have one member

in the purple box there.

One member or a staff person

or intermediary of that member

shares information to individual members

by expressing their preferences

to a majority of other members.

So these are two different ways that we could have an improper serial meeting under the Brown Act.

But this is why it's important to keep in mind things like reply all to certain emails involving a quorum of the commission can get kind of sticky if you're sharing what the preferences of individual members are about action that is before the commission.

So there are also exceptions to the meeting rule.

A purely social or ceremonial occasion is usually okay, so long as you're not discussing agency business.

A conference can also be utilized, so long as, one, the conference is open to the public.

Two, it involves issues of interest to the agency.

And three, the members of the body do not discuss amongst themselves issues within the commission's subject matter jurisdiction.

A community meeting is another example.

that's fine so long as it's open and publicized and there's no discussion of issues not on the

agenda so that includes things like candidate meetings environmental group meetings etc

meetings of other legislative bodies are also okay so long as the meetings open and noticed

and there's no discussion of issues not on the agenda so this is this common theme of if we are

meeting it outside of a notice a public meeting or one of these examples as long as we're not

discussing the business that would come before this commission and sort of coming to conclusions

about what actions we should be taking would run afoul of the Brown Act. So here it's important to

remember perception is reality. If you saw the whole city council out to dinner talking quietly

at a back table, maybe a smoke-filled room, would you assume they were talking about city business?

Probably. So in those kinds of situations, we may have a Brown Act problem.

Okay. Notices and agendas. So for a regular meeting, annually commission calendars are adopted that state the time and place for holding its regular meetings. Regular meeting agendas per the Brown Act are posted 72 hours in advance. The city's sunshine ordinance requires additional transparency and agendas must be posted 120 hours in advance.

Special meetings can always be called if necessary for the conduct of the city's business,

but notice must be given at least 24 hours before the time of a special meeting.

Anything other than a regular meeting is considered a special meeting.

Agendas must state the location and a brief description of each item.

The commission can't discuss or take action on any item that is not on the agenda.

And then let's go here.

So before we kind of move on to a discussion of public comment, we have some Parks and Rec wisdom from Leslie Knope, right?

So these people are members of the community that care about where they live.

So what I hear when I'm being yelled at is people caring loudly at me, right?

What a good attitude.

AWC meetings typically don't have a problem with extreme yelling or shouting, but maybe this quote will resonate with commission members nonetheless.

Hopefully the public and the Commission can benefit from the reminder that everyone here on either side of the dais is present because of their commitment to and love for animals.

People care and sometimes people care loudly and that's okay.

In the following slides I hope to explain some ways to keep energetic public participation in these Commission meetings productive, useful, and in line with the rules.

So, the public's place on the agenda.

One of the most important jobs of the Brown Act is to protect the public's right to attend, observe, and participate in public meetings like this.

So every agenda must allow for public comment on every agenda item and on non-agenda items, with some exceptions, as we saw earlier.

Members of the public must have the opportunity to speak on an item before it's voted on.

And the body can set time limits for speakers, and the chair has the authority to limit or extend time limits as long as that's consistently applied for all speakers.

So this is among several other important requirements that I have listed in my notes here.

The public can't be required to identify themselves when making public comment.

The meeting must be held in an accessible location, which isn't a problem here.

No actions by secret ballot are allowed, right?

The votes have to be open in public.

The public has a right to review agendas and other documents distributed to a majority of the body.

The public can record the meeting, as this meeting is recorded.

The meeting cannot be held in a facility that prohibits attendance based on race, religion, nationality, age, sex, or disability,

and members of the public cannot be required to pay or register their names or other information to attend a meeting.

However, the Brown Act also makes clear that the legislative body may remove persons from a meeting

who willfully interrupt the proceedings as they're ongoing.

The council rules of procedure states that each speaker gets two minutes per item.

The consent calendar is considered one item.

And may speak on a total of four items per meeting.

So time can be extended or limited so long as it's consistently applied.

So, for example, during the budget discussions, there were over 100 speakers that wanted to address the city council.

So the mayor limited the speakers to a minute each just for practical reasons.

During the redistricting discussions, the commission only had about 10 speakers.

And the topic of district maps is pretty complex and technical.

So the chair extended time for speakers to address the redistricting to about five minutes.

So that is an important thing to note is that's a possibility so long as it's consistently applied.

Okay.

So now we're going to move on to parliamentary procedure and Rosenberg's rules of order.

So for parliamentary rules of order, the city of Sacramento commissions follow Rosenberg's rules of order, which you can find anywhere online.

The city council has officially adopted those rules as the format that they and all of their boards and commissions are going to follow, including us.

Okay, so parliamentary procedures. What is a quorum? A quorum is just the minimum number of members required to be present to legally hold a meeting. That's typically a majority of members. Majority is more than half for those of us that did not know.

The role of the chair is to lead and conduct the meeting.

The main job of the chair is to ensure that all voices are heard.

They announce the agenda item, number, and title.

They invite the appropriate person to report on an item.

They invite commission members to ask technical questions or clarifications.

They invite public comment and establish speaker time limits.

They invite motions and seconds from appointees.

They clarify the motion and invite discussion on a motion.

And when discussion is complete, they ask for a vote.

They then announce the result of the vote.

So remember, the chair has no greater access to staff than any other member on the commission,

but they do have a role in making sure that the commission's business runs smoothly.

In general, motions are the method for commissions to make decisions.

A motion should always be supported by two appointees, the first person who moves, who makes the motion,

and then the second person who seconds the motion.

To move and second is simply a verbal statement

to officially support the idea of a motion

so that it can then be discussed.

If we don't have a second, we can't discuss.

A motion to amend, aka a friendly amendment,

is offered by an appointee to amend a basic motion.

So this would be for the purpose of clarifying

or enhancing the first motion.

So if the appointees who moved and seconded the first motion

agree to the amendment, then that language becomes a part of the first motion.

A substitute motion is a completely different motion.

So the ideas in a substitute motion are not similar to previous motions in its potential course of action.

The intent of the substitute motion is to completely do away with prior motions and present something new.

So you can have up to three motions on the table, and then you vote on the most recent.

okay so let's take a look at how many affirmative votes are needed to pass an item very few

commissions require um excuse me that's a wrong section so voting it's going to be up to a simple

majority more than half 50% rounded up to the next whole number um is going to be how motions

are passed um on this commission um it's going to be a yes or a no a majority of members present

and eligible or qualified to vote is going to be the idea of the quorum.

And then the majority of that quorum is how the vote is calculated.

There is yes or no or abstention.

Sometimes, depending on the circumstances, a recusal might be appropriate.

We can talk a little bit more about conflicts later.

If there is a tie vote, the motion does not pass.

Okay.

so I'm going to cover courtesy and decorum so it's up to the chair to ensure that all voices

appointees staff members of the public are heard it's always best for only one person at a time to

have the floor and it's always best for every speaker to first be recognized by the chair

before proceeding to speak that's why we have what vice chair Morris talked about with the

requesting to speak and then it goes in an order that can then be decided on one at a time so

people aren't talking over each other or interrupting. The chair should always ensure

that debate and discussion of an item focuses on that item and policy in question. Debate on policy

is healthy, debate on personalities is not. The chair has the right to cut off discussion that is

not appropriate or related to the agendized item of discussion. In the interest of time, but not

at the expense of open and free discussion, the chair is allowed to limit the time allotted to

speakers. That includes appointees. So the council rules of procedure describes time limits for

speakers. Although parliamentary procedure might seem a little bit stuffy, it does ensure that the

commission can get its job done by making all voices able to be heard. We also want to be sure

to use appropriate terms when we refer to specific members. So Madam Chair or Chair or Madam Clerk,

Commissioner, Committee Member, member, right, we're using the formal titles of people.

okay now we'll move into discussion of decorum and proper etiquette in chambers with a bit more

detail these rules come from the council rules of procedure which are required to be followed by

everyone in these meetings that's members the chair vice chair staff audience all required to

abide by these rules and they can always be referenced online if there's ever a question

about what rules apply the council rules of procedure are readily available so the crp rules

currently on screen specifically outline some of the relevant rules for members, and I'll go over

those now. Norms and expectations include treating everyone with dignity, courtesy, and respect,

being attentive and limiting interruptions, encouraging dissent, but being mindful not to

just stonewall discussion or block consensus in a way that's unproductive, present problems in a way

that promotes discussion and resolution, and then working to build trust in each other by assuming

good intent. Statements or behaviors that clearly undermine these goals constitute a violation of

the CRP which would allow the chair to take action. Okay we also want to make sure that

we're treating everyone with courtesy and refrain from inappropriate behavior and derogatory comments

and we're preserving order and decorum not delaying not interrupting not disturbing members

while they are speaking.

Okay.

Now we have member and staff interactions.

These rules specifically address interactions

between members and staff that I can go over now.

Members are required to treat staff professionally

and refrain from publicly criticizing individual employees.

Pursuant to this requirement,

members are asked to discuss directly with the city attorney,

city auditor, city clerk, city manager, city treasurer,

or director of the office, public safety, accountability as appropriate, any displeasure

with their department or staff. So for example, if a member of this commission were to take issue

with my job performance as a member of staff sitting in the commission meetings and that

member didn't think that I was doing my job of providing legal advice to the commission properly,

the appropriate action per the council rules or procedure wouldn't be to air those criticisms

during a public meeting, it would be to go to my boss, who is the city attorney, right? That would

be the appropriate way to bring up that criticism. This ties in nicely with my point earlier about

making sure that the wires of accountability don't get crossed and that any criticisms we have of

staff are aired at the appropriate time and place where they will actually be effective.

Okay. Decorum in chamber and disruptions. The purpose of a legislative body meeting is to

conduct the city's business. If there are disruptions or interruptions that prevent the

body from conducting its business in an orderly and efficient fashion, the council rules of

procedure address how that situation will be handled. Government code and council rules of

procedure address willful interruptions. The members of the body conducting the meeting may

clear the room and continue the meeting if disruptions continue to hinder the body from

conducting the city's business if it's impossible to get done as is. And then members of the media

who were not part of the disruption have to be allowed to return to the meeting after this

disruption is concluded. Okay. An important overarching principle to remember here is it's

not personal. It's just business. We're all required to uphold the rules, both chairs and

members, so we can get the city's business done. It's the affirmative duty of the presiding officer

of the AWC to maintain order by enforcing the rules contained in the CRP and Rosenberg's rules

of order. All AWC members are required to both follow and actively uphold these rules in cases

of non-compliant behavior by other members or by members of the public. Okay, but what happens when

that kind of situation crops up? What do we do? Let's say a meeting of this commission is taking

place. You have a strong suspicion that another member or an audience member is speaking in a way

that you feel is violating the council rules of procedure. What do you do next? What steps need

to be taken in order to bring us back into compliance with the rules so we can fulfill

our mission. Well, we do this thing called making a point of order. That's a procedural tool that

you're going to use and it's helpful and it's a polite way of requesting that the chair and the

commission take action to bring the proceedings back on track. So for those of you that need a

refresher, I'll quickly go over that procedure now. For these situations, the city of Sacramento

uses Rosenberg's rules of order for parliamentary procedure. So this is where this comes from.

The CRP enables the presiding officer to make a point of order to enforce compliance with the rules,

but also any member of the AWC may make such a point of order under the appropriate circumstances.

The appropriate circumstances would be when you feel the discussion has gone outside the CRP's mandatory rules for decorum, process, etc.

The proper procedure is as follows.

while the CRP violating behavior is ongoing or once it concludes a member would interrupt and

say point of order the chair if not making the point themselves would ask the interrupter to

state your point member blank as I alluded to previously appropriate points of order relate

to anything that would not be considered appropriate conduct of the meeting and you

can bolster your point of order significantly when you make a citation to a specific council

rule of procedure rule for the sake of clarity, right? So it's also, it's always good if you're

saying that there's a violation of the rules to know what rule exactly is being violated.

The chair then makes a ruling on the point of order. Alternatively, AWC members may require

the chair to enforce the CRP upon the affirmative vote of a majority of the AWC members present.

Once a ruling in favor of a point of order is made, the member or audience member that was

subject to the motion is bound by it and must correct the non-compliant behavior accordingly.

If the chair makes a ruling that a member disagrees with, that member of the commission

may appeal the ruling of the chair. If the motion is seconded and after debate, if it passes with

a simple majority vote, then the ruling of the chair is deemed reversed. But remember,

only commission members, not audience members, may appeal the chair's determination.

so here I've compiled a very non-exist exhaustive list of various example situations where a point

of order might be raised for example a member interrupting another member staff or public

commenter without being duly recognized by the chair a public commenter is discussing an individual

staff member outside the scope of their job performance a public commenter is off topic

from the agendized item a member is violating a decorum rule etc etc you can read the list as well

the point is that if we're moving outside the rules, if the meeting is becoming unproductive,

these are the tools that you can use to get us back on track. Each member here is encouraged to

spend some time reviewing the council rules of procedure. Again, it's all online, just to

familiarize yourself with the rules and the expectations for conducting these meetings.

Both the specific procedural rules and the general rules of decorum are both going to be useful

reading for sure. Okay, just as a reminder, utilizing these procedural tools is a helpful

and respectful way to ensure that we can conduct our business in an efficient fashion.

It also helps to keep these meetings in compliance with the law because the CRP is mandatory.

And being a lawyer, being compliant with the law puts a smile on my face.

And I know you all want to make me so happy.

The Political Reform Act is what we're going to talk about next.

This has to do with conflicts.

It's an effort towards transparency of information in the political process.

This initiative was spearheaded in response to the fallout from Watergate.

And as you guys probably know, Watergate was not a great way to utilize power.

So we wanted to attempt to rein in acts that involved corruption, conflict of interest, etc.

The law, among other reforms, requires public officials who routinely participate in decision-making to disclose their personal financial holdings.

The purpose of disclosure allows the public to monitor actions of officials in comparison to their financial holdings to ensure the official has no financial benefit in the decision-making process.

So with the Political Reform Act, conflict of interest statements are required 30 days after appointment and leaving and annually.

You should have received a link to NetFile, which is our online filing system.

and these are posted online so that anyone can review.

An official may not influence or participate in a decision

where there is a financial or strong personal interest in a particular issue.

Public officials must disclose their relevant personal financial interests.

You may not receive or agree to receive anything of value

or advantage in exchange for decision or official action.

It's basically reportable once you hit 50 bucks.

That's coffee 10 times.

and there's a $520 gift limit total,

flowers, king's tickets, et cetera.

Recusal from participation is required

if there is a material financial interest

in a particular piece of business or official act.

Violations can include invalidating the action.

It could also be a misdemeanor.

It could also have a civil penalty,

which is a fine of up to $5,000, which is not good.

okay what do you think if you might have a conflict just call or email me before the meeting

and then i can help get to the bottom of it commission meetings in progress are probably

not the appropriate time to bring up these specific issues you should all have my email

and office phone information already but if you don't i can provide that to you just let me know

so if there's ever a question about a conflict just talk to me about it don't be shy so let's

say you do have a conflict, now what? So if we confirm that you do have a conflict, you will

disqualify yourself, aka a recusal, from participating in the specific item over which you have a

conflict. You will state your conflict openly for the record, and then you will physically exit the

meeting room until that item is concluded. If a conflict is perceived, which means the perception,

is legal, but it's not personally ethical for you for whatever reason. This is known as a personal

bias. In those circumstances, you're at liberty to personally excuse yourself or abstain. So as

stated above, contact me before the meeting if you have any questions or you want to discuss a

potential conflict. My door is always open to each of you. Okay, and now we have moved on to the

follow-up log and agenda setting section.

And I would love to invite Mindy,

if you would like to come up

and help us discuss the follow-up log.

Good evening.

I'm Mindy Cuppie, your city clerk.

And so thank you, Carson, for the invitation to join you.

He's a fantastic presenter,

so I'm humbled to be following him.

So what is a follow-up log?

So a follow-up log is something that's outlined

in the council rules of procedure, that process.

And it's basically a running list of requests that you have made of staff.

So some examples.

So how does it work first?

At the end of every meeting, there's a section called Commission Ideas, Comments, and Questions.

This would be a time where you can ask staff to add something to that log.

So some of those examples could be, I want a list of all available dogs in the shelter.

That would go on the list.

Probably staff would send you that list the next morning and send it blind copied.

so we don't violate the Brown Act to all of the commissioners.

That's a simple request.

If you made a request for a presentation on the police budget, it would go on the list.

And when it comes back at the next meeting, it would probably say,

not applicable to this commission.

So we respectfully decline that you won't be getting that presentation.

So if it doesn't have anything that falls under the scope of the commission,

it will go on that list, and staff will make comments.

Staff uses that list to manage your agendas.

So city clerk's office did not make your agendas.

So we process agendas, but staff is who puts those reports on, and they'll take a look at that and say, well, I need to do some work on this agenda item.

It's going to be in March, or gosh, that's not going to be until November because we need some more data or need to do some research, hire a consultant.

Everything needs to be done within the public meeting forum.

So you can't email staff and ask something to be added to that log because it's not in an open and public forum.

You can't ask the chair to do that.

the chair unfortunately has no more authority than any one of you to draft

those agendas its staff who is your agenda setting so forth. Let's see as

Carson said the vice the chair and the vice chair their role is really to

manage this public forum process to make sure that all of your voices are heard

all of these voices are heard and the meeting is continuing to run it would

be absolutely underneath of their authority to say Commissioner Mindy you

you haven't spoken this evening, what do you have to say?

Or also on the flip side, and so you're going to vote on chair and vice chair later this evening,

so keep that in mind.

It's not an easy job.

But also to say, you know, Chair Carson, you have not, you haven't, you've spoken 15 times today,

and I haven't heard from Mindy.

So please, you know, let's take some comments from the rest of the dais,

and then we'll come back to you.

It's not an easy job.

You guys have probably seen me say, thank you for your comments.

your two minutes is complete. Running meetings aren't fun sometimes and so that's the chair,

the role of the chair. They have no greater access to staff than any one of you.

Commissioners also have no greater access to data or staff than a member of the public.

So if you're requesting from staff some data and it wouldn't be data we would give to the public,

you wouldn't get that either. We do have a public records request process and if you want me to go

into that detail, I'd be happy to do so.

But if you're asking for data that is not open to the public,

you wouldn't get any additional access to that.

Let's see.

I think that's all I have to say on follow-up plug.

What do I miss, Carson?

I think that about covers it.

Thank you very much for your contribution.

But it really frames, it's really a tool for staff to make sure they're bringing back

things that are under the scope of this commission.

and so thank you for letting me present

and I will be available if you have questions.

Excellent.

Thank you, Mindy, very much

and thank you all for sitting through this training

and for being willing to learn

and kind of uphold the rules

that help make the commission work.

So we are available, Mindy and I,

for any questions that you may have at this point,

but that concludes my presentation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

We have no speakers for this item.

I have either Julie Virga or Christy Middleton with their speaker hand raised.

Some of us share screens.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

Both of you.

Really appreciate your presentation.

A couple questions.

if there is an emergency type of situation related to animals and related to animal welfare at Front

Street for instance COVID or if there's a you know an issue at the shelter and and it's on lockdown

it's on quarantine and dogs can't come in and it's really a life and death situation for animals

and as a commissioner I'd I'd feel like is there anything I can do to help is there anything that

I can do in the context of my role as a commissioner or as the role that we have here as commissioners

to try to ask for an emergency meeting or to do something along those lines to be able to help

and elicit an action?

yeah so the um there is a process for um requesting emergency meetings that um those typically don't

come up that often um you know but as you said there were also you know situations like covid

where commissions were not able to meet as normal uh in those instances i believe there were uh

different virtual meeting procedures that were put in place uh to allow uh certain boards and

commissions to meet outside of the context of just a physical room like this. So different

measures have been taken to kind of adapt to circumstances as they pop up. It would just

depend on the nature of the emergency and the nature of the circumstances.

Who should I contact if I'm concerned about something like that? Would it be the clerk's

office? Would it be you? What would be, in your opinion, and just tell me if I'm asking too many

questions because I can I can contact you later you know we can discuss this in depth but that

would be something one of my questions yeah you are more than welcome to reach out to me um and

chances are if it's about the finer points of uh commission meetings and stuff I will then probably

reach out to Mindy as well uh she's the expert on this kind of stuff but um yeah you can always

reach out to me or um and I will be able to get your question to the right person if I don't know

the answer. Right. Thank you. Of course. And if I may add to that conversation, this commission

is advisory to the council. So typically it would be the city council reaching out to me to say,

I need this commission to meet because we need advice on XYZ. We've got an emergency situation

and we need to. So I would feel an appropriate thing is to reach out to your council member

to have that conversation with your council member to say there's an emergency situation.

I think we need to step in and I think this body needs to convene so that they can advise the council so that the council can advise staff.

Wonderful.

Reporting structure, I'd say.

Thank you so much.

And if you could, I think my next question is for you too, Mindy, but I'm not sure.

So I just want to be clear on how, as a commissioner, if there's something that I think is important to be an agenda item, what the process is in the commission setting to make sure that that happens.

I believe that it's the commissioner, it's a follow-up log, it's the last item, you know, where we can give our ideas or whatever.

But I just wanted to, if you wouldn't mind walking through that process, what the chair's role is, how they ask us if we have anything, how we are able to, if there's a certain way that we have to say it.

You know, like I would like to make a motion so that this can be on a future agenda item for discussion.

That would be one of my questions for starters.

Thank you.

I'll take that one since that was my two slides and Carson did the whole rest of the presentation.

So the follow-up log, that's an automatic time for you to say, I would like this item added to the follow-up log.

I would also include if you said that before during the agenda items, say it again under comments, ideas, and questions.

Because staff's trying to listen to all the comments while you're during an agenda item.

So restate it would be my recommendation because that's when we get our pencils out and we start writing down what you've requested.

But I also want to reiterate that if it's not under the scope of the commission, it's entirely possible that staff will tell you no.

And staff makes the decision when those come back, if it's time sensitive, if they need consultants to help, if they can bring it back at all.

My example was if you ask for statistics on something, and it's something easy, and staff is going to send you an email the next day and say,

they're all here on the website, or here's the information you requested.

Or likewise, if you asked for a presentation by the chief of police on their budget, staff is going to tell you no.

and again you don't have any greater access than any member of the public as a commissioner

your advisory to the council gotcha if i could ask a clarifying question please

so um let's say that there's something that i would like to have added i understand and i'm

going to maybe clarify a little bit more there in a minute but that i i would like to have it as

as a discussion item than in that follow-up log.

The process is I can bring it up.

Okay.

And then do I ask for a vote?

Does the chair ask for a vote?

No, since that item is not on the agenda,

you can't ask for a vote.

Okay.

So like Carson said,

if there's not an,

if an item is not on the agenda,

you can't even speak on that.

That's why under public comments for matters,

not on the agenda.

You'll see council members want to say something.

And they can briefly comment, but they really can't discuss because, and the reason why is members of the public weren't prepared to show up to talk about that, to make comments of it.

Commissioners weren't prepared to have that discussion.

And so there's no way for you to participate.

So basically, you have to say thank you, and then it goes on the log.

That log will then generally be on consent at the next meeting.

and that's a time where you could say,

another commissioner could say,

Commissioner Verga asked that this be put on the agenda.

Staff has said this is not under the scope of the commission,

but I disagree.

So can we talk about that?

Carson, can you comment on why that's not under the scope of the commission?

So that would be a time where you could actually have conversations about it.

Okay, because I think I misread Rosenberg's rules regarding

how to advance an agenda item under the last item,

the follow-up log, for us.

So the follow-up log is part of the council rules of procedure.

And then the reason why you can't vote on it

or you can't have a conversation about it is Brown Act

because it's not on the agenda.

And I wouldn't say that we would vote on the substance of it.

I hope this makes sense.

I'm just trying to understand this.

and maybe I can, I don't want to hold this up here.

I could contact you maybe directly to get better clarification.

Just for purposes of getting it on the follow-up log,

do I need to make a motion or do I just say it or?

Say it.

You can say it.

At a future meeting, staff, I would like a report on widgets.

Okay.

And that's it.

That's all you need to say.

Or I'd like some data on this.

I'd like to look into you know this and they'll simply write it down they can't have a back and

forth conversation with you they might contact you the next day and say I don't understand what

you mentioned or at the dais they might say okay can you clarify what you're asking for

they might say that but it cannot be a discussion it can only be a one-way street and an ask for a

future okay okay so obviously we know that that there's been a lot of question about the agenda

and who sets it and who doesn't.

My understanding is that we are here really to substantively forward the issues that are raised by the community

and that we have to go on the agenda.

And that it's city staff, or in this case maybe Front Street staff, that would help put together that agenda.

But I'm hearing you say here, and I don't know if this is Carson or who I'm addressing this to, that that's really not the case.

That it's really completely up to the agency, in this case Front Street, to decide what's on that agenda.

And I guess, number one, that's my question for clarification.

Number two, I would like the citation or the government code that you're referencing regarding that, too, please, just so I can look into that further.

Yeah. So staff sets the agenda. And then as far as specific citations, the procedures exist in the council rules of procedure for a specific citation. I don't have it in front of me immediately, but I can provide that to you.

Okay. And I can reach out to you for further conversation about this, so I'm not bogging you guys down on this.

Absolutely.

Because I had some other 12 questions regarding the agenda.

Just how it all works, just procedurally, just to understand.

But it sounds like that would be best that I reach out to you guys so I can get clarification on that.

Yeah, and I can give you my card with my contact information if you don't have that already.

that goes for everyone on the commission as well if you don't have my contact information

i can give you that okay because i'm just looking at my questions here i think

that's fine i'll just i'll contact you guys first and commissioner i think you had a question

was there a hand i'm sorry trying to take them in order just to be fair to the people with their

hands up so um commissioner bagley requested to speak then we have commissioner mcdole benedict

Christy Orpew

and then

I just removed myself

okay and I wanted to let the

panel know that we have been joined by

Commissioner Ignacio

Barragan who was a few minutes late but is present

so

Commissioner Barragan

thank you good evening

I think you've been delegated the expert

so I should address you

Mindy or Miss Cuppey

it's along the lines of

what Miss Verga said and

I fully understand that the commission certainly is not independent of the city.

We report to the city.

We make recommendations to the city.

But it seems like there should be at least some level of independence with the shelter

in that we may ultimately be making a recommendation that they don't agree with or they oppose

or they don't want to follow.

and then that would certainly open conversation with city council and staff at that point.

My question is, let's say I put something, and this should be a hypothetical.

I asked for something to be on the follow-up log, and I really want it to be agendized for next month.

And it is a proper subject.

It's certainly within the scope of the operations of the shelter.

And as a commissioner, I'm very curious about that particular operation and various programs attached to it.

But for whatever reason, staff, and I'm sure that when you use the term staff, you're saying front street staff or management.

You're not saying city clerk staff.

You're saying staff ultimately decides the agenda.

And you're saying front street staff.

So my question is, if staff, Front Street staff, has no intention or desire to discuss those programs or that operational policy with the commission and wants to, let's say, avoid that subject with the commission, what remedy is in place?

since we should be at some level independent of the shelter

in that we're making recommendations they may oppose or not agree with?

What remedy is in place to get something on the agenda

when staff, meaning Front Street, doesn't want to discuss it, hypothetically speaking?

well

you know as we've stated previously the agenda setting authority does

lie with staff I mean that's a matter of city policy

if there was something that was

not being discussed you're obviously free to take that up in your capacity

as an individual citizen with first amendment rights to

council I mean that would be one you know potential

remedy is the ability to like voice grievances right but as far as the setup of the division

of labor between commission and staff animal care services staff that's something that is a matter

of policy and isn't necessarily um i i wouldn't say that there's necessarily a a direct like

procedure for um receiving any sort of legal remedy in that sense

that would be my

I don't think it's a legal remedy I'm just wondering procedurally

I mean I'm not even sure you've ever encountered that

Ms. Cuppy but I'm just wondering what remedies in place

to get a presentation that's proper within the scope

that a commissioner just can't seem to get

absolutely I'd be happy to answer that question with my opinions

so this commission is not independent

so staff reports up through their charter officer

So in this instance, the city manager's office.

So Carson gave an example.

If you're not happy with his work, you go to his boss.

So if you're not happy with mine, I report to the nine city council members, so the mayor and council.

So you would contact one of them and say, Mindy's not doing her job.

She made this presentation and she was awful.

You would tell them that.

So that would be where you would go.

I would start with the council member that appointed you and have that conversation.

But you also can't modulate the staff's workload.

We have other stuff during the day.

So it's entirely possible that there are other things on their plate that they just simply don't have the time to bring a proper report back to you.

If there's something that staff has brought a report to you and is asking for your opinion,

I believe, I said I believe this is my opinion, that their staff report when it moves to council should say this is what the commission thought,

whether they agree or they disagree.

so their report moving it forward they might move something forward which is

still their recommendation but in the report there is a section that says what

did the committee say what did the Commission say

could could I just ask you to say what you just said again that last part if

you just repeat what you said then I just didn't understand that about the

So the staff gives a report to whom about the commission?

So if there was an agenda item this evening, and say it was number of chickens.

So the number of chickens, and staff's recommending 18.

And the commission says, no, that's ridiculous.

There should be four.

When that report goes to council, there's a section that says, what did the commission think?

and so when staff moves something forward

if they brought an item to the commission

they may still recommend 18

but there's a section in their staff report

that goes to the council that says the commission thought this

gotcha and so thank you

so let me let other members have a chance

I was just going to clarify

Commissioner Jamie McDowell asking a question

I just wanted to clarify when you say staff, you are referring to Front Street staff and not city staff, city manager or city office staff.

So not the city clerk.

We do not.

Front Street does not report to me.

So we.

As far as setting the agenda, what staff are we.

Staff of Community Development Department.

So ultimately the city manager's office.

I don't know the hierarchy.

But no, my office, we take the reports, we compile them into a pretty package, and we create that agenda.

But we are not subject matter experts, and my office does not do that.

You're who?

You call us when you're going to be late or you're going to miss a meeting.

And then if an item was deemed not under the scope of the commission, what is the process for appealing that?

You would ask for an illegal opinion from your attorney.

Okay.

and likely staff has already consulted them.

Thank you.

Now we have Kelly Benedict who has made a request to speak.

Thank you, Chair.

My question is also in regards to the agenda.

Mr. Vanderlinden, you mentioned that the staff, city staff,

the staff creates the agenda.

and my understanding, whether it's the city staff or whether it's the front street shelter staff,

that setting or preparing of the agenda is more an administrative role,

more of a clerical role because they wouldn't be,

it'd be the commission that actually sets the agenda items, correct?

Staff would set the agenda items for discussion.

So the agenda as it appears before the commission is set by staff.

And to clarify, Front Street is city staff.

So they're all city employees.

But that's sort of a, it says here, I'm just looking at the handbook, it says that they prepare it.

So I would think that the commission would set their agenda,

would decide the agenda, and then the city staff prepares it, correct?

I mean, I think that's sort of a, you know, prepare, set, like,

agendize all is kind of referring to the same set of activities.

Well, I was referring to it.

Actually, they're different because, like, for example, I might say, okay,

here is 20 agenda items and then I might give it to my secretary and just have her type them up.

So I would be deciding these are the agenda items.

She would just be the clerical person typing it up, right?

So that's kind of the clarification I was trying to make.

Yeah, so as we've talked about, you know, the commission will request particular items on the follow-up log.

all of those items will be considered by staff who prepares the agenda and sets the items for discussion for future commission meetings.

Okay, thank you.

Of course.

If I can clarify too, I staff a few commissions and I have a running list of 15 things that they want to hear about.

And it's really when I can produce that product.

If I don't have time to bring you a report that's fully vetted, I'm not going to bring that back.

We also, you've got a two-hour meeting.

So if we can't get it done in two hours,

I've got meetings next week and I'm like,

I'm gonna have to bump two agenda items

because I know we can't get through those in two hours.

So staff really sets an agenda for a two hour meeting.

If there's something time sensitive,

an item that you asked for three months ago

might get pushed to the next meeting.

Thank you, Ms. Cubby.

Ms. Christie or Ms. Fue, Commissioner Christie or Fue?

Thank you, Chair Morris.

Thank you so much for that.

Always helpful to get those reminders.

Two questions.

So one, I'm curious, how, if at all, is the process different if we would like to request an external presentation?

So if there was, like, another organization or a subject matter expert that's not part of Front Street staff,

would the process be the same or would we provide a contact or already have opened those discussions with someone

before bringing that to the follow-up log?

How does that work?

Same process.

you would request it during a regular meeting.

I'm sure staff would appreciate if you had a contact at that agency,

but then staff will really figure out which meeting that's going to come to,

coordinate bringing that person in, if there's a PowerPoint,

if there needs a staff report written, so they would coordinate in their behalf.

Thanks.

And then because we've already spent a lot of time on this section,

could you just give the briefest description of how a public records request is initiated?

Absolutely.

We have a website.

You go into the website.

We have an online records library that has a ton of data.

If you don't find that data there, it's a simple form that you fill out and request that data.

We have an obligation legally to get back to you within 10 days to let you know if we think we have records.

Depends on what you request.

If it's something simple, if you requested a resolution, you're probably going to get it emailed back to you through the portal.

It's an online portal, so we post those records all online.

We generally do not do anything in physical copy.

And so if it's something simple, a resolution ordinance, you'll get that posted to your portal the next day probably, depending on workload.

At any given time, we have over 100 records requests.

We do 5,000 a year.

We have a whole team.

Amanda is on the records team.

She can attest to how many we have open right now.

If it's a simple record, you're going to get it quickly.

if you're asking for emails between myself and Carson and Cecilia.

And for this period of time with these keywords, it might take six months.

I've had records requests take five years.

So it depends on what you're so limit your scope.

But again, as a commissioner, you have no greater access to records.

If it was records that wouldn't be given to any member of the public,

you don't have greater access.

Sorry.

Thanks.

Commissioner Virga or Middleton.

Oh, I'm sorry, Commissioner Ignacio.

I'm sorry.

Really quick, just a point of clarification for me.

This is for council.

So going back to the initial part of the conversation,

it sounded as though when we talk about staff preparing the agendas,

are we saying that that authority to prepare agendas includes discretionary authority to also create the agenda, correct?

It's not just the physical actions of preparing it based on the recommendations made by the commission.

I just want to be clear.

That's correct, right?

Yes, that's correct.

Staff has their discretion to set the agenda.

Okay.

And without burdening you with any need to follow up or anything,

do you have, what is, I'm sure the League of Cities and a lot of these associations statewide

that really help build better cities and municipalities,

have some kind of resources that speak to this,

but how common is it for a city council

to place discretionary authority with the city staff,

like the community development department?

Unfortunately, I have only worked for one city,

so I only am really aware of the policies and procedures in Sacramento.

That being said, it's very possible that League of Cities

or IMLA has some comparative literature

that kind of goes over these processes.

I'm just not aware of it.

Okay, my guess is that it's probably pretty high.

That's why I bet I was wondering if you knew that.

Okay, thank you.

And if I may answer for the city council,

council members don't have the authority

to put something on the agenda.

So they have to work through staff.

Thank you.

Commissioner Verga or Middleton.

I just had one last clarifying question.

um when you were mentioning it sounds to me like the process so we may we may submit various things

to be um agendized on the follow-up log and then it goes to to front street staff and then they

make that decision but you mentioned that there was a report that they provide i didn't know if

that was like the yearly report about what we ask and what they decide or i i wasn't i wasn't

following you on that? So most commissions, the process is to put that follow-up log on your

consent calendar so that you have an idea of the running list that staff is working with.

So your list might be 30 items. So it just makes sure that you know that you're still on the list

and we will get to it as soon as we can. Sometimes staff will put comments, you know, expect us to

come back in October, reached out to a consultant to get some data on this. So that follow-up log

It's usually on the consent.

It's usually not discussed, but it's really just a running log to let you know that we're still working on the items.

Thank you very much.

Commissioner Bagley.

Yes, very quickly.

I'll be fast.

So this evening, I may just ask for some things to be put on the follow-up log,

and it does not involve a presentation at all and nothing time-consuming or laborious for staff.

It would be more like a discussion for the commissioners to have regarding a particular subject

and to hear from the public as well on it.

Would that item be put at the bottom of that list of 20 items,

or is there any mechanism whereby it would be like that would be fast,

that does not involve a lot of work, we could put that on next month?

I would say that's entirely staff's discretion.

I usually, my logs are chronological.

So one, two, three, when they come off the log, it will go on that log.

Staff has an obligation to write a staff report, to have some data, to not just say,

we're going to sit around and talk about this.

Because members of the public need to decide, do I want to drive down to City Hall tonight?

Because the title, and so the Brown Act says the agenda title has to have enough information.

I always think, will my grandma understand what we're going to do?

Will my understand, are we taking an action?

Are we just chatting about this?

Is it just a workshop?

And I believe staff has to put in some staff time in order to write that staff report.

Sometimes it takes 15 minutes.

Sometimes it can be two hours.

So it depends on what's on the docket, basically, what's on their running list.

You could absolutely comment and say, I think this would be a wonderful topic to bring back as soon as possible.

You know, this is timely.

staff please take that into consideration

okay thank you

but again it's discretionary sorry

are there any other commissioners

I have a couple comments but any other commissioners

have any questions or comments

thank you Mindy

and

City Clerk

thank you for being here today

and thank you for allowing me to present

a couple things that come to my mind

as I was listening to the presentation

and just some clarification for folks who may wonder

our commission is 13 seats.

Some are not filled and some are maybe filled.

If you actually count heads, not tonight, but whatever,

you will find that there are 15 of us.

That is because Kathy Garcia and I

are finishing out our terms from prior appointments.

So we are finishing terms

that we were appointed to two years ago or so.

and so if somebody's trying to do a head count

and figure out how do we fit in

when there's 15 people on the dais

if all the seats are filled,

that's how it works.

Kathy and I are finishing terms

in a prior structure of the commission.

So if you're curious,

that's why seven and 15 don't quite go together,

but that's how it works.

A question for Carson or Mindy.

If one of us has some information

that we would like to share

to all of the commissioners,

a recent news announcement or something that we think would be helpful for all commissioners to

know and we don't want to violate the Brown Act. Would we send a request to you? Would we send it

to staff at the shelter? Would we send it to the clerk's office? How might we share such information?

So you're saying like a news development or a legislative development or something you want

to discuss with the, I mean I would bring it up in the same way that we would bring up other items

on the follow-up log, like this is something that we want to have further discussion about in the future,

be specific about the kind of topic and the relevant information,

just so that staff knows what to do with it and how to agendize it appropriately.

I think that would be the appropriate method for doing that.

It's not necessarily, and I'm thinking back to something Commissioner Bagley wanted us to share a year ago,

and I can't remember what the topic was, but it was not something to be on the agenda.

it was just a, hey, commissioners, FYI, this is going on.

And I don't even remember what the issue was,

but it was something that we wanted to share out.

Is there any method?

And there's been a couple times when I've wondered,

like, a change of a date of a meeting or something.

Is there any way to just share through your office

some sort of updates on anything?

Through my, like, the city attorney's office?

Through your office or through the clerk's office?

I guess I don't understand the change

of the date of the meeting example?

So something I actually am going to bring up later,

but there's a new discussion about the 102-acre activities

at Meadowview, and they're having a meeting on February 4th.

So that's before our next meeting, not really for our agenda,

but it's something that maybe some people might want to attend.

If I was, like, saying, could you share this to the commission members

so they would know, is that something you could share?

and maybe you can provide follow-up to this but if it's not necessarily related to the business

that is currently before the commission or within the subject matter scope of the

of the commission's jurisdiction then that might be something that you could just discuss you know

outside of the commission because it doesn't have to do with commission business and so it wouldn't

implicate the Brown Act in any sort of way. However, if it was discussing commission business,

then it would all of a sudden implicate the Brown Act and require sort of those open and public

discussion requirements. And maybe, Mindy, you could follow up on that.

Absolutely. Thank you. I love answering these questions. So thank you for engaging my brain.

But that's a great example. If it's something informational only, it would be appropriate to

send that to staff and ask staff to get that out.

They will likely reach out to us and get all the emails.

They will email it to you blind copy.

102 acres is a great example.

So if you sent it to everybody and you all show up,

okay, remember, don't sit at the table together.

Don't talk.

You are acting as an individual, not as a commissioner.

But that topic could come up at a meeting.

So two years from now,

it's possible that we're talking about building a shelter on that site.

and then it would be before this commission.

So you could have inadvertently violated the Brown Act two years ago.

Right?

But if I sent you this notice about this meeting and you could share it

and people could become...

Yeah, something is informational only.

And sending it to staff is a really good choice

because they can look at it and go,

they can call Carson and say,

what do you think about this one?

If it's something about something going on at the state capitol

and you're just information only, there's a new bill,

there's a new something.

If it's an article about something

and it's clearly not going to be before this commission.

If it's just information sharing or educational, it would be appropriate to share that.

And staff is a really good person to be that litmus test.

There's lots of misinformation out there too.

I hate to say that, but staff will check.

If there's fake news is out there, unfortunately, so they'll take a look at it and say,

is this correct information?

It might be misinformation that you have gotten through some source

or they don't feel appropriate that that's not an educational.

So likely staff will talk to the attorneys and have that conversation and may or may not forward that.

But again, always blank copied.

Another point I wanted to make the commissioners aware of, if you haven't had a chance to go through of all of Carson's presentation,

the ordinance for this commission is at the back of that packet.

He read you the number earlier on, but the actual content, the actual coordinates is in the packet.

So you don't have to go hunting for it.

You could look at the back of Parsons presentation because he has the actual ordinance in there.

So that's there for you to look for instead of having to go hunt.

The last point that I think I'm making as an opinion is I hear a lot about what's on the agenda

and how does the agenda get made and who has control of the agenda and the agenda and the agenda.

I really hope that the focus of this commission is what's in the ordinance and not what's on our agenda per se.

That things on the agenda relate to our charge and our scope in the ordinance.

And so if you're trying to bring something to the commission and you want it on the agenda,

hopefully it's something that's in our ordinance, it's something we should be working on.

and hopefully it will be a normal course of business

that it's on our agenda.

I will say for 22 and 23, that's kind of how we ran.

Things that we were working on were directly out of work

from what our ordinance is, including rewriting the ordinance.

And so hopefully we can get back to focusing on

what are our assignments and our scope

and our responsibility under the authority of this commission,

as you will see outlined in a template, in a work plan template.

So I really hope folks would focus in on that work plan template

and that ordinance in terms of where you want to put your energy,

and then that stuff comes onto an agenda.

It won't be my chair to run, but I'll put that in as a comment here.

with that

I think we're ready to move on to the next item

oh you pointed them out to me thanks so much

we've got a couple more people queued up

Commissioner Virga or Middleton

yeah that was me this time I actually had a question

a clarified question regarding your question about communicating

and the example that I wanted to ask about was the city audit

on the shelter because I think that a lot of the folks on the commission were blindsided by that

like it ended up on the agenda and some folks didn't even know that it had been issued and

it was something that this commission had requested so I wonder if say you know the

chair knew that that report came out and wasn't sure that everybody on the commission knew

is that something that could be shared through your office in advance of a meeting or outside

of a meeting where it's very relevant to the commission.

Right.

So I don't have any sort of authority over, like, the ultimate what ends up on the agenda.

I think the appropriate course of action in that case of what you're describing of this

information seems relevant to the work of the commission and to animal care services,

we should be bringing this up and discussing this.

Then I think, you know, it just goes back to those same tools that we've discussed earlier.

either adding it to the follow-up log for future agendization

or bringing it up with staff directly and saying,

like, can you provide commissioners with a copy of X thing

or, like, this information?

And then they, as Mindy was talking about,

can provide commission members with certain information

at their discretion and blind carbon copying everyone

to make sure that there's no sort of Brown Act issues involved there.

that would be my suggestion is just those two tools that we previously discussed

Mr. Hingerman you're on the list thanks I just wanted to clarify for my my part for my

shelter manager's report is that also kind of subject to the same guidelines as far as

you know agenda items for example I was going to share data tonight but I was also since I

will continue to be part of the commission take some time to introduce myself and share some ideas

for you know how we can communicate and work together better this year would that be something

that should is that an example of something that should be its own item separate from my report or

is my ability to present sort of more flexible i would encourage you to stick to the agendized

item of discussion just for purposes of making sure that the committee's or sorry rather the

commission's business is efficient and conducted in a way that's in compliance with the brown act

requirements of making sure people know ahead of time what kinds of matters are being discussed

although obviously staff is free to communicate with commission members outside of the commission

so long as there's no like business being discussed regarding like things that are going to be before

the commission and as long as you know we're not having any sort of creation of a quorum through

email communications and we're making sure to bcc everyone and not kind of contacting everyone

directly so we we do just have to kind of keep these things in mind as far as making sure the

agenda we're sticking as close to that as much as we possibly can and that we're also making our

communications as you know compliant with the brown act as we possibly can just because we

want to make sure we're following those

laws and our policy guidelines.

Okay. Thank you.

Commissioner Garcia.

Hi. A question.

At the end of the meeting,

comments not on the agenda,

what's appropriate to mention at that time

as far as events?

I see city council members mentioning

events that they're holding in their districts.

What could we mention

like Leah was mentioning that

meeting that's coming up.

What would be appropriate to mention on

comments not on the agenda.

Mindy, maybe you can speak to this one.

I am not actually sure.

So that's a great question, and I think you're asking from the commissioner perspective of what you can recommend.

As long as it's not a two-way street and if it's relevant to this commission.

So if you wanted to announce that your daughter's elementary school is having a bake sale,

probably not relevant to this commission unless they're making money for Front Street.

or there's an adoption event. That would be a great event to say something about. So it's a little bit more flexible as long as there's no conversation.

So if you make a comment that there's going to be a bake sale to benefit the front street, another commissioner can't say, oh, yes, and I'm going to be there and I'm bringing cookies.

So as long as it's a thank you and we're done, it's just a one-way street. Same thing with public comment for matters not on the agenda.

it's a one-way street people can make comments but you cannot you can briefly

respond to but you can't engage in conversation so one example I give is

mama mama's mark mama marks park there was the splash pad was delayed and

someone came and complained about it and the city manager knew we're starting

construction next week so the city manager can say we're starting

construction next week but that's it she can't say that there's going to be a

slide and you know blue water and you can't really have a bigger conversation

because members of the public didn't know to drive down and be a part of that conversation.

I think we've gotten through the queue.

Anyone else have another comment or question?

Apologize for missing folks on the list.

Okay, let me get back to my next.

So now we are item number three, Animal Wellbeing Commission follow-up log.

So that follow-up log is included in the packet.

Is there any public comment on the follow-up log?

Thank you.

We do not have any comments for this item.

Members of the Commission, questions or comments about the follow-up log?

I don't see anybody with a question on the follow-up log here.

I'll just observe and comment

oh we have Jamie McDull

Commissioner McDull please

on the follow up log

I do see cited

euthanasia numbers and

I know that at

previous meetings it was

brought up before to have them monthly

so I would request

it says on here they're still being presented quarterly

I would request that they be monthly

and that

So this is a question for Mindy.

Do we have a discussion about this?

For example, if I want them quarterly,

how do we engage with this now?

Carson's looking at me like, you take that one.

So because it's on the agenda,

you can have brief conversations about it,

but really not digging deep into the topic.

So if it was, I want a monthly, I want quarterly,

you can say, I prefer quarterly.

you know so if it's just adding on to what that agenda item was but and since

it's on the agenda you can have conversations it's on the agenda via

being on the follow-up log correct since it's an agenda item members of the

public know we're gonna talk about things on this log right we're not gonna

dive into those topics because we don't have a staff report on those topics but

for instance if there's an item on the follow blog that the rest of you don't

agree to say I think that's a waste of time, that would be a conversation. Or if somebody

had requested a presentation from the Chief of Police and on that log it said not applicable

to this commission, you could bring that up and say, City Attorney, I'd like a legal opinion

on that because I think that is underneath the purview of this commission. Does that

help? Kind of. It doesn't open us to have a discussion of who wants quarterly, who wants

monthly, who wants weekly, and maybe that could be a topic when it's brought forward in February.

And I think that's something you could, when it's brought forward, you could do that,

or it is, since it is on the agenda, you could talk about that. You could say,

hey, who wants it quarterly, who wants it monthly? And staff can take that information

into account when they bring it back. Since we're almost 20 minutes or so left,

I'm not proposing we dive into the items other than to acknowledge that this is on here and it's on here for discussion in February.

So it sort of appears that what we see on the log is what then feeds over to become, for example, the February agenda.

So there could be an agenda item on euthanasia numbers.

Entirely possible.

It depends on how long the meeting is.

I would bet your work plan is not going to happen this evening, and that's probably going to be on your next agenda.

So those topics you need to take into account the length of the meeting and what staff is preparing to come back.

I know I support the Ethics Commission, and I typically in one column say I'm trying to bring this back in March,

or not likely in March. It's probably going to be October.

So staff can help clarify that.

And you can ask staff, hey, I want more information on this log, if there's notes that they can provide.

But it really is the discretion of the staff what is on your next agenda.

Okay, so one, two, three, four, five, six, seven items on this agenda,

I mean, on this follow-up log, which can become agenda items at the future.

I would just ask a clarification question on the last item,

which was Commissioner Bagley had asked about a presentation.

Have we covered that or is there more to be done on this, do you think?

Do you think there's more to be done on this last item?

I don't have that in front of me.

What's the item presentation on?

Commissioner Bagley-Frenzia asked for the city clerk to give a presentation on item as related to agenda setting motions, voting procedures, and roles of the chair and vice chair.

I would think we covered that this evening.

We have covered it this evening.

Yes.

Okay.

So then does that get noted as completed or does it come off the log or does it live on the log?

Your staff can use it the way they want.

I would typically have put completed on this date.

And on your next follow-up log, it will say completed.

The next log, it will not be on there.

But I think you know it's done, right?

Okay.

But typically they don't disappear.

So we've done it this week.

it wasn't on agenda, so staff can take it off the log at this point.

Okay.

Any other?

Commissioner Virga or Middleton?

Okay, it was just a clarifying question.

In relation, hypothetically, what you were just bringing up about

should the euthanasia law, there's a discrepancy in opinion.

It should be monthly. Should it be quarterly? Is that something at this juncture, since it is a discussion item, that a vote could be taken on to decide if that goes forward? Or I just wondered how to handle that difference of opinion.

It depends on the recommendation. So if the recommendation is to receive and file, then you can give feedback, but you can't vote on it. But you could give clarifying information on what that topic is, what that ask is. You could say, okay, everybody raise your hand who wants monthly, who wants quarterly, and staff can take that into account and then bring back what they can bring back.

So the receive and file that you just brought up, I'm not sure that I understand how that...

Receive and file is like I give you a report.

There's really no discussion on that.

But you can provide feedback to staff.

So just to clarify, if you look on the agenda,

if you look on item three, it says pass a motion.

See motion in bold.

So there is a motion related to this log,

but it doesn't

seem like there's a motion related to individual

items on the log

it's for the whole log as a whole

and so

there is a motion to adopt

the log that's where I'm a little

also like at the end of the meeting

if we say can we add this to the log

but we've already adopted the log

we can still add to it later

okay so

that would go on your next log for the next meeting

so

So we could add things to the log during the discussion item at the end.

It would kind of be a separate item, then, it sounds like, potentially.

And that item in particular is logged to be discussed in February.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That's the best I can recall.

So, anybody else on the follow-up log as it stands with the eight or so items?

Do I have a motion to approve the follow-up log?

Commissioner Garcia moves it.

Do I have a second to Commissioner Barragan?

Seconds that.

And all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

All those opposed say nay.

The motion passes.

Thank you.

Now we're on to the item four,

selection of chair and vice chair for calendar year 2026.

and vice chair I will actually take it from here thank you thank you so good

evening my name is Cecilia Ventress with the city clerk's office all the

detailed information in your staff report I'm sorry let me start over I'm a little

too quick here all the detailed information is in your staff report but

I have a few important reminders regarding the election of officers we

will hear nominations and vote for chair first then followed by vice chair the

The newly elected chair and vice chair will begin their terms at the next regular meeting, which in your case it's February 11th.

Commissioners may nominate another commissioner or themselves.

And please remember that a commissioner may serve no more than two calendar years in each position.

As such, Commissioner Morris is ineligible to serve as chair, as she has served the two full term.

And all commissioners are eligible to serve as vice chair and chair as well.

So we now may begin with nominations.

If there's any questions, I'm here.

If you would like to make a nomination, please put yourself in the queue.

Do you want me to call them?

Oh, I thought you were.

You take it from here.

Commissioner Bagley?

I would nominate Jamie McDole for chair.

Commissioner Bargain.

I would nominate Commissioner Bagley for vice chair.

I'm sorry I'm not sure the microphone heard that so your nomination was to nominate

Commissioner Bagley for vice chair

my rationale is that she's an attorney and she's demonstrated that she can manage

you know the discussion in a diligent manner so I hope she would consider that

Thank you.

Are there any other commissioners who wish to nominate anyone or would like to second

either motion on the table?

Are we seconding?

If you'd like, yes.

I'd like to second the motion for McDowell to be the chair.

And do we have any seconds potentially for nominating Commissioner Bagley as chair?

that is a second by commissioner virga

was that vice chair that you okay thank you so much thank you guys for your clarification

okay so we have a motion um by commissioner bagley nominating commissioner mcdoll as chair

seconded by Commissioner Benedict and then we have Commissioner Bargain who

has nominated Commissioner Bagley as vice chair and seconded by Commissioner

Berga correct okay if we can please get commissioners to unmute their

microphones for the vote Commissioner tree is absent

Commissioner McDowell would we vote clarify which we're voting for both

positions at once that's yeah we're able to we could take them separate but since

both motions were made at the same time we can take them at the same time yes

Commissioner Snell is absent Commissioner Virga just to clarify I'm

I'd be voting yes for both the chair and the vice-chair is that correct yes yes

Commissioner Middleton?

I need more information, so no.

Commissioner Hayes is absent.

Commissioner Berrigan?

Yes.

Commissioner Bell?

Yes.

Commissioner Benedict?

Yes.

Commissioner Bagley?

Yes.

Commissioner Christie?

No.

Commissioner Few?

Yes.

Commissioner Garcia?

No.

Vice Chair Morris?

Abstain.

The motion passes.

Congratulations.

So we have Chair McDole and Vice Chair Bagley,

and you guys will start at your next commission meeting in February.

That concludes that section, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So we are on to item five, Animal Care Services Monthly Report.

for the um question on follow log follow-up log items um if i have follow-ups on those items

would that normally take place during the like the previous item follow-up log presentation

or would I add them on to my manager's report?

The manager's report.

Could you repeat your question, please?

Yeah, so I have some items to basically follow up on

that are related to the follow-up log.

Would I have done that in the previous section

or add them on to my manager's report?

I believe the best time to have done that would have been

during the item of discussion as the follow-up log.

so yeah I think that it's probably no longer relevant to the topic of

discussion okay apologies I thought I was gonna be

requested to speak I will plan to cover all that next time should have a

a PowerPoint.

Yeah.

Do I have a clicker?

All right.

Well, thank you, everyone, for your patience

as we all kind of figure out the formatting

and as I get to understand your priorities better,

my goal is to be as helpful as possible to the commission and to the public.

Apologies for missing my opportunity for the follow-up log.

So for the reports, our population statistics, the date on the bottom is incorrect.

This was as of yesterday, January 20th.

animals and shelter dogs 205 cats 31 and other animals 10 including a horse that

came in yesterday which was a first animals and foster 81 dogs and 48 cats

and then animals and foster to adopt just one dog so that's been a big

accomplishment we've been trying hard to to maintain it is just certainly

difficult with space, unaltered animals that are waiting to be fixed at the shelter, but we are

trying our best to keep those numbers from growing. Okay, oh, and total animals in care, 375.

The quarterly euthanage statistics that have been requested,

I can hardly read this here.

So in the past quarter, which would have been October, November, December,

euthanasia for cats, 269, and euthanasia for dogs, 225,

live release rate for dogs, 89% in that time period,

and cats, 65%, with an overall of 81%.

I also thought I'd include the annual statistics,

since we are in a new year.

So, cats intake, 4,149 cats and 6,032 dogs.

Notable increase in dogs from last year,

about 500 additional dogs compared to the same time period.

Positive is 800 additional adoptions of dogs

in that same time period.

Let's see.

and as far as euthanasia statistics,

it looks like it isn't broken down here,

but 1,822,

and the breakdown of dogs and cats there,

86% live release rate for dogs,

which represents a 2% increase over 2024,

which, you know, given the increased intake,

I think is an accomplishment.

CATS, live release rate 69% with an overall live release rate of 79%.

General updates, staffing updates.

We have two animal care officer candidates that are in the background investigation process

and interviews are scheduled for two other officer vacancies.

We have one customer service representative vacancy.

We have four animal care technicians starting at the beginning of February.

We have one registered veterinary technician vacancy with interviews coming soon.

And we've also started the recruitment process for the animal care services manager.

Something I wanted to share that's coming down the line, something we've been working on for a while,

is a mobile app for our Doggy Day Out program, which many of you are familiar with.

We had a great news story from Fox about our Jog-A-Dog program, but a number of years ago we won funding from the Petco Love nonprofit along with other animal welfare nonprofits to develop an app essentially to make it more efficient for shelters to offer these sorts of programs.

we had a heck of a time finding a developer that could do it

under the right cost threshold

we had one who was going to do it

and ran into some issues and were not able to

and had really long delays

so we're excited we found a vendor who can do it within our budget

and this is ideally something we'll create to not only make our own program

more efficient but also to be able to offer to other shelters for free

so they can streamline their ability to essentially get people signed up for the program,

complete paperwork, upload photos, bios,

and essentially reap the benefits of the program that we've seen.

The request for proposals for policies and procedures,

several consultants have submitted bids.

Proposals were due on the 16th, so just a few days ago.

And a panel of community development department staff will make the selection.

I wanted to bring to everyone's attention a new bill, AB 339, that will impact and create delays to our contracts.

Essentially, without reading the whole paragraph there, feel free to look into it,

but it requires us to give 45 days written notice to labor unions before issuing requests for proposals,

quotes renewing or extending existing contracts that are within the scope of work of city job

classifications so that 45 delay 45 day period will create some delays in the process as far as

the site improvements we are awaiting the final budget from public works we are hoping to have

it by this week or next the initial project cost for the interim improvements came in way over

budget. We've been working on that to reduce costs of approximately $600,000. So we are

just waiting for the budget on that to see what would be feasible. This weekend, we have another

spay and neuter events with animal balance in Natomas. This will be a mix of shelter animals,

clients of our homeless outreach and assistance program team, as well as community cats. It'll

be a total of 200 animals cost approximately $43,000.

That's it. I had some other things to discuss, but I will save it as an agenda item for next time.

Thank you.

Before we go on to any public comment or commissioner comments on this, we are approaching the end of our meeting

and clerk's counsel is that we need to take a vote to extend the meeting.

We have an option to extend for 30 minutes.

We could extend for another hour.

Looking at the agenda, I'm curious if anyone has any opinion on whether we extend for 30 minutes or an hour in terms of people's lives at home.

Anybody have a thought one way or the other?

Do you want me to request?

Should we?

Yeah, if you guys can request a speak.

Okay.

Commissioner Barragan.

I did have a couple of comments I wanted to make, so 30 minutes would be plenty from my perspective.

Thank you. Any other? I'm not seeing my, let me get back to my screen.

Commissioner Verga or Middleton?

I would just say go for an hour and let's try to make it for you.

Thank you.

Commissioner, do you have a?

I agree. I was up. You took Commissioner Verga.

But yes, I agree.

We should continue for at least 30 minutes.

Hopefully, if we need an hour, I'm good with that.

We can vote on it.

So I guess we'll just take a motion to extend the meeting and not specify for how long.

I'm allowed to make that motion to extend the meeting.

Do I need a second?

Yes.

I need a second on that.

I'll second.

All those in favor, aye.

Aye.

All those opposed?

Sorry, that's a second from Commissioner Berrigan.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

the meeting is extended to complete the business of the commission.

And now we can proceed back to.

Back to you.

So if you guys have questions or comments.

Is there public comment on this item?

No, no public comment for this item.

Thank you.

Commissioner comments on this item.

I have a list, but I'm not sure if it's from previous,

so I'll just start at the top.

Commissioner McDowell.

Just one for point of order.

If we could get this monthly report in advance on the agenda,

so we can actually review it before, that would be great

because it's not accessible to us,

so we don't have a copy of this

other than what we get to see on the screen.

And then the one question I had was the animal care service manager.

Who was that position previously held by?

Or is that a new position?

the current animal care services manager is philip zimmerman

thank you commissioner berrigan

uh i had a one comment i apologize for being late today and the news was i was um checking out

we added a second dog to our home so i was at the shelter and that's what held me up so

kind of ironic but was not planned that way but I was just wondering given the

well I want to first I want to thank Zimmerman and Kathy Garcia who

coordinated a tour for me at Front Street before the holidays and I everybody

was really kind and it was really nice to see all the volunteers and all the

stuff that's been donated you know Zimmerman was able to show some of the

areas that need some improvement. Some of them, you know, became really evident to me

after going to Bradshaw and Elk Grove and other shelters as I was looking for my own pet.

There was a stark juxtaposition and clearly there is a lot of room for improvement on an

infrastructure level. That's to say, though, you know, hearing from the report that the bids are

coming in at 600,000, it's really nothing.

It's money that's going to get eaten up incredibly fast.

And because there's conversations

about possibly having a new location for a pet shelter,

I guess one of the things that I'm thinking is,

does it make sense to revisit

how the interim site improvement plan is spending the money

so that we're having the highest impact for the most lives for these animals

and not investing in a location that's going to be sold.

Or if it is going to be sold, that's going to have improvements that have a dual purpose.

They benefit the animals, but they also increase the value of the space

should the city choose to sell it or to use it for something else

so that we're not being wasteful.

So the city's financial situation is in a place where we're already backwards, and I don't want us to dig into a bigger hole to make a Band-Aid improvement that's going to be obsolete.

So that's my rationale.

So I guess if anything I would say, I would ask city staff to consider bringing that as discussion or as an agenda item that they think would be appropriate.

if it's not unduly burdensome because I understand several commissioners

did a lot of research around the interim plan

and I want to be deferential to that. I just think there's new information

now and we should maybe think about that. So thank you for allowing me

to speak. Thank you. I will have a few

comments to share but first we have either Commissioner Verga or Middleton.

I was just wondering about the SOPS

requests for proposal and the bids that are coming in,

and that I understand there's going to be a presentation maybe with community development.

I'm just wondering the timeline on that because SOPs are so important.

They make a huge difference every day in the lives of animals that we have standard operating procedures.

For instance, I'll just give you one example.

If you know, for instance, regarding kennel capacity,

when you get to 150 dogs or whatever number you get to

and euthanasia becomes a real threat for those animals

as more are coming in on a daily basis

to have policies and procedures and solutions

and things that come into play

so that you're hitting the alarm button.

Hey, when we get to this number,

we just saw this happen just recently,

that policies and procedures come into play.

And I could give you a million examples of why it's so important.

SOPs are really important.

And I know we had, my understanding is that the commission had started work on SOPs,

that Doug Snell and Hillary Bagley had been working together to work on SOPs.

And when I became a commissioner, they forwarded them to me.

So my thought may be, is it too late to consider having the Animal Wellbeing Commission do those ops so they can be done more quickly?

Since we're here in town, you know, we know what's going on.

This is our shelter so that we can speed up the process because it really is vital that it happens as soon as possible.

That's my thought.

From my understanding, the second, February 2nd, is the soonest that we can take further action due to the assembly bill that I mentioned regarding the 45 days as far as starting the selection process for the bids.

Okay, thank you.

And then the selection process for bids takes how long generally, would you say?

Any idea?

I don't know, but I'll be sure to bring that up next meeting and see what I can find out.

Thank you.

Anyone else have any questions or comments?

Commissioner Bagley?

I just had a quick question for Mr. Henderman.

Is there a point person who does all the scheduling for animal balance?

Is it a group of folks or one person?

How do you schedule?

I mean, it's a collaborative effort,

but we do have an administrative analyst

who kind of takes the lead role on scheduling projects.

I just wondered.

Thank you.

Just on the interim improvement discussion,

just giving information,

in 2023 and into 2024,

this commission worked with an architect firm

to do sort of exactly what you're describing.

Should we rebuild or relocate?

In that analysis, I would highly recommend every commissioner to read that analysis and be aware of the reporting in that analysis.

And I would ask staff, whomever is appropriate, to please share that report specifically to the commissioners, if you would, if we could, Karsten or Ryan, so that they have a copy of it in their inbox and don't have to go hunt for it.

The final analysis from that architect firm and input on capacity and age of the facility and size, we sit on 1.7 acres.

The ultimate size that we need is approximately 8 acres.

And so putting lipstick on this facility is not.

However, in the reality of what it would cost to build a new shelter and the timeline to build a new shelter, we did a process with the staff to go through improvements that they would like to see to make the shelter safer, cleaner, more appealing to the public to come in.

And some of that is, for example, the wayfinding signage that was implemented this last year

that helps people understand where adoptable animals are located in the shelter, et cetera.

Ultimately, the list of items that were prioritized by the staff who work there every day

came down to the things that maybe Mr. Zimmerman showed you, the guillotine doors,

the latching and poor latching structure for the kennel enclosure cages,

the curb that one trips over and is blocked to get in and out of the...

So ultimately, the appeal to the city council on a budget was to repair or renovate those.

So not repair, because at least from my perspective on it,

It's not a matter of just change out the latch and you're done.

You need to get rid of that curb, which requires jackhammers or whatever to get rid of that curb.

You need to change the way the door swings or make it slide.

So anyway, those were ultimately rolled up into a price.

At that point, it was $400,000.

That was taken to city council last year, and it was approved.

now it seems to have gone higher

lower

and there are many many people

who probably could do this work for less

the city

public works department is kind of

who's been involved

so I hear putting lipstick

on a facility that's ugly

not just ugly but not

appealing, not functional

not easy to keep clean

multiple things

is like, should we renovate or relocate?

We should relocate.

But right now, we don't have the funds to do that.

We don't have a space to do that.

We don't have the public support to do that.

So I hope that this commission doesn't somehow slow down

by saying let's rethink all that,

because we spent two years.

But, you know, the commission will do what it wishes.

Yeah, yeah.

So that was, I mean, I have the list literally right here

that we presented to the city council to the PNPE committee again created through a process with the

staff who work there and what they saw as issues that possibly could be addressed and that was

that list was also generated out of the process of putting the needs assessment together led by

the architect firm so you know whatever the work of 2026 may be with this commission

I personally hope that we don't interfere

with the interim improvement process.

Yes, it's grown to $600,000.

Yes, the city budget's in terrible shape.

Yes, we all want the animals to be safer.

We want more people to adopt,

so we want the facility to look nicer.

We want them to be able to find their way around the facility.

We want the staff to not get caught in cages

with a dog that may be upset

and the door won't open, all of that stuff.

So that's just to say I would feel very sad if we somehow interrupt the flow for this now approved interim improvements that the staff ultimately decided that these were the high priority ones.

I appreciate that.

Do you think that in light of the real possibility of there being a new space, though,

that do you feel as though what was voted on two years ago still makes the most sense today?

Do you think that's still the best way to spend that money?

Me personally, I do, given that we're not finding any space.

We haven't found a benefactor to give us $50 million.

dollars. We don't know what the public community is, has an attitude or an aptitude for

fundraising around a new shelter. So, you know, I don't like the idea of, so to speak,

throwing good money after bad. But as you've seen, walking through that shelter, it is not as

beautiful as what you see at Bradshaw or what we've seen down in Stanislaus. Some of us have

and been touring shelters, and we're about to go up to Yolo County.

And, yes, this shelter built in 1910.

Not the buildings that are there now, but the site was identified in 1910.

So, you know, it's been 100 years.

I think we're ready for something different.

That's what I have on Animal Care Services monthly report.

Okay.

I think we have a couple more.

Thank you for always pointing that out.

Commissioner Bagley.

No.

No, okay.

Commissioner McDole.

I just wanted to thank you for this report and all the good information.

I just wanted to highlight that the community balance is exciting with 200 animals projected to be sterilized,

and hopefully we are doing that on a regular basis.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Agenda item six, City of Sacramento Animal Wellbeing Commission 2026 work plan.

So you may have noticed in the packet some back and forth about our 2025 annual report and our 2026 work plan.

the work plan last year was a challenge to understand in my opinion a challenge in terms of

filling it in and and making it live and um as you may all recall and I went back and looked

there was a work plan kind of a draft that we kind of went over well we didn't go over and it was in

October of 2025. And I will point out, because I went back and read it before now, some folks were

quite enthusiastic about their efforts. And so, for example, Commissioner Christie and Commissioner

Hayes had put a lot of ideas out, and we kind of put those ideas into the format. But honestly,

those really haven't gone anywhere.

No disregard to Commissioner Christie or Commissioner Hayes.

It really was we didn't focus on a work plan.

We focused on a lot of discussion about stuff,

but we didn't focus on work this past year.

We had a lot of dialogue, a lot of concerns, a lot of engagement,

but we didn't really focus on what is this commission going to work on.

I will thank Commissioner Garcia, who kept plugging forward on translations of brochures, which she got completed into Hmong, Vietnamese, Russian.

I'm not sure the languages, but she completed those activities, which were on a work plan that we never actually got to go through.

And so Commissioner Bell, I know, also worked on some community business, I'm sorry, neighborhood meetings.

etc. Commissioner Bell and I worked on a project around reaching out to vets in

the community but frankly the work plan wasn't really utilized in the way that I

had proposed it and that was fine there was a different chair and we had a lot

of other public dialogue on a variety of things so I'm not proposing that we sit

here tonight and fill this out at all but if you look at this structure of a

template and you look at the ordinance which was included in Carsten's

documentation you should see that it is exactly what our assignments are through

the ordinance and so I would encourage folks the new chair can adopt this can

drop it can do as is is the wish of the of the committee commission but you know what what it

what we're supposed to be looking at is how do we encourage low cost spain neuter services and

identify funding and not necessarily turning to the city but so commissioner I'm sorry chair

Hefner launched a campaign last year to try to pay for an animal balance event some of us

commissioners supported it financially not it not not enough to pay for the

whole thing so grant dollars had to be put in for that and shall ensure shelter

meets standards of the veterinary shelter veterinarians guidelines that's

another I think that ties to the audit and some of the discussions in the audit

promote awareness of programs at the shelter some of us are in fact working

with the volunteer coordinator to try to support locations for low-cost vaccine services.

We're doing that through collaboration with shelter staff, for example, the volunteer coordinator

who reached out and asked if we could help through our relationships with our city council members.

We can't send something to all of you.

That would be a violation of the Brown Act.

but a couple of us have close relationships, so to speak,

with their council member who appointed them

or maybe with the mayor to ask about waiving fees

to use city property to hold vaccines.

Because right now we're being charged for porta-potties.

We're being charged for parking spaces.

We're being charged to use access to a room

to vaccinate cats by city services.

So money is just going back and forth

between the city services.

and it's sort of like, can we approach, you know, can we have a group that's looking at

how do we help promote programs at the shelter, such as free vaccine programs,

animals available for adoption.

I think that's where the brochure comes in.

That was work that Kathy did to try to have things to take out to the meetings

that she and Denise have gone to, to hand out literature.

Some people are like me, they're old school, they want literature.

and so I you know importance of spaying and neutering I know that there has been some work

by Commissioner Bagley on literature but I don't know that that that anything happened with that

and and the reality is it's it's not for me to do something with it it's for each of us to say

who do I you know do I work with Ryan collaborate with Ryan to create a piece of of literature that

talks about how to tell the public the importance of spay and neutering. Then work with Kathy's

resources to get it translated into Russian or Spanish or Vietnamese. There's work to be done.

It's kind of thinking and learning. So for example, Commissioner Hayes wanted to do some

social media activities. At least we never got a report back from her because we never went through

this work plan together. So we never got a report back from her on what happened on her social media

efforts. I'm not entirely sure, but I think she frankly got shot down. I don't know who or how

or what, but because we never went back to the work plan and said, hey, you know, who's working

on this idea to get more TikTok or whatever it was. We never, we never went back to that. And so

I'm offering this as a tool. I just created it as a spreadsheet two years ago to try to help

the then commission members to put some focus together.

I'm looking at Commissioner Christie,

who has been working a bit on an idea of doing a spay and neuter capacity analysis,

a white paper on what is the capacity in this community,

this geographic area for spay and neuter.

If we keep saying to everybody, we need more spay and neuter,

we need more spay and neuter, you should be talking to so-and-so over here,

you should be partnering with them, you should be working.

Well, we're trying to gather that information in a white paper and say, these are all the people we've talked to.

This has been their response.

These are the number of vets they have.

The thing about Yolo County and somehow the clinic in a can should be an answer, the interview we had with the executive director is, no, that is not the answer.

I have no idea how that ended up in the audit as an answer.

Because she's like, we're just replacing a two-table room with a two-table room.

It's not going to increase high volume, high quality spay and neuter.

So I offer this, or it was developed as a way to capture what's in our ordinance and what are we doing.

And we might not do something on each of these things, but I sure hope that this is how an agenda gets built.

Because we're working on encouraging low-cost ban neuter,

or we're working on promoting awareness of animals available for adoption, that sort of thing.

So that's sort of the end of my presentation, per se.

Is there any public comment on this topic?

We need to also correct, as was pointed out to me earlier,

and, for example, we talked about taking a look at your agenda document.

if you see that this item says recommendation receive and file that was an incorrect commentary

on the agenda it should have per the city clerk's direction it should say review and comment

and so we get to review and comment on this we are not taking a motion on it we can review and

comment on it I basically will say to you that if you want to work on something

you you decide what it how what you want to work on you think about what the

project looks like which commissioners would be involved if you want to tour

other facilities and learn how they got funded when were they built bring that

information back to us that's a little bit of what those of us who've been

touring other facilities are trying to do.

I have a ton of pictures of Stanislaw,

for example, and Bradshaw, but I've never

gotten around to putting a presentation together.

So

that's what that tool

is about for you all

to use

if you wish.

With that, I'll

take public comment if there's any public

comment on this topic. Thank you, Vice

Chair. We do not have any speakers for this item.

Can I make a public comment?

If you have one for this item,

you can go ahead and bring it up.

My name is Andy Borovanski.

I currently volunteer over at Animal Control.

And I would just like to say I'm pleased to hear that you took a tour.

And I urge all of you to take a tour and spend some hours over there

and see exactly what they're up against.

I would like to make a comment about Fix Front Street.

And not to criticize you guys.

you guys your heart's in the right place but there's been a lot of news a lot of stories out

there criticizing animal control and it's not constructive criticism it's it's they're doing

this they're doing that we got to stop them rather than like you just mentioned collaboratively we

got to get together and I think that's important I think everybody's got to come together

and we gotta we gotta fix what's wrong is it archaic that's by far it's probably the oldest

facility around and there are still original buildings from back then I do

plumbing myself and the plumbing fixtures that they put the hoses on are

70 years old you can't get parts for them anymore but my point is you know I

think fixed front street whether it's you miss Berga or somebody else the the

East Sack News they seem to criticize a lot of the employees name the employees

I mean, that kills his employees.

These employees are hired based on their love for the animals

and their compassion for the animals,

and yet they're strapped with the ultimate sacrifice of these animals at times.

That's tough.

We have police chaplains coming in and talk to these people

because it really does affect them.

And I think naming them or pointing out their deficiencies

rather than trying to help them, it really hurts the whole system.

It doesn't do anything to improve.

and I think it's important that if we're going to make comments about the facility,

back up just a little bit and see what we can do to make it better

rather than the comments that make it worse

because I think these comments do.

They tear it down.

I'm sorry I don't have a prepared statement,

but I've just been thinking about it the last few hours

and I just think that my own experience...

Thank you for your comments.

Your time is now complete.

Thank you, sir.

Everyone gets two minutes.

So that's...

Thank you, sir.

Members of the Commission, Commissioner Berrigan.

I want to just acknowledge that work plan.

I think it's a great resource and I hope this commission does continue to use something like that.

Because I think staying organized and, you know, I did three years in my neighborhood association.

And one thing I learned there is, you know, it's easy to get together in a group and you have a thousand ideas.

but then you get nothing done.

So picking two to three things that you really,

all of us want to really focus on,

I think is a very constructive way

to approach our tenure on the commission

in addition to what is being produced

as part of the agenda.

So just thank you.

And I know it sounds like this is the first meeting

I'm a part of that you're facilitating.

I really appreciated how well organized it is.

So thank you for your service.

And Kathy, I know you guys can't,

you've done a lot of terms.

So thank you for that.

But the other thing I wanted to say is in terms of projects and things I'd like to add to the work plan for myself,

so just so it's on the record, one, I'd like to work with city staff to maybe incorporate a translation widget

like the Google Translate widget on the website.

I think it's really important, you know, whether it's Mandarin or it's Chinese,

like what the board Kathy did, making the agendas accessible to people that speak different languages.

it's so cost effective incredibly easy and I'm happy to work with the city

however to make that happen the other thing that I've been talking to

show me where you would think you would put that I think that would be

programs at the shelter and then it would be

incorporate Google widget and then it would be Commissioner Berrigan and it

would be Commissioner Berrigan will reach out and

collaborate with staff at shelters.

So that's how this could get used.

But I don't run this.

I don't know if the new chair and the new vice chair want to be working on that sort

of capturing those ideas.

But throwing ideas out is great, but how do we capture them and when is the next report

back on that?

What is the best way to get that in the work plan then?

I think that is going to be the new chair and vice chair to decide for how 2026 is going to be organized.

Okay.

I appreciate what you're saying.

Yeah.

I just, we've had a lot of people say, oh, and I'm not saying you're, but we need to do this, we need to do that.

And it's like, are you saying you're going to own it?

And when are you going to?

Yeah, I'm saying I'll own it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll say, I'll figure it out then offline.

And then the other thing I'm working on just for the record is I've been meeting with neighborhood associations,

but I'm going to circulate a survey because I think it's important to get the community's input on their experience with Front Street,

their experience with the charges that this commission has, how can we increase accessibility.

I want to get all that input, and then we have some real data that we can share on the record that staff can leverage however they want.

So that's another project I have in the works, and I guess I'll just deliver something when it's ready.

Well, I don't know.

I'm looking at Carson.

If you are going to circulate a survey as a person in the community or as a commission member.

I'm circulating as a—I've discussed this with my council member.

They are aware that this is something I'm working on,

and I intend to be fully transparent about a draft and work with city staff, hopefully, together,

so that it's something that makes it out to the public before it gets circulated.

But I'm not sure what the process, the correct process needs to be.

Yeah, just if it's coming from the Animal Wellbeing Commission,

then we would need to have a vote for everyone to agree to the survey before it goes out

and agree that it is in the name of the commission.

We're just not doing anything in the name of the commission without the commission's approval.

But if it obviously, you know, individual members of society writ large are free to give surveys, solicit feedback from other members of the public.

Council member or council member or mayor.

Correct.

So if I have a draft ready and I've already kind of socialized it with a bunch of people, I could come to a meeting or ask staff to add it as an agenda item for discussion.

That's correct.

Okay.

I think it should go on the follow up log.

That's right.

It'll go on the follow up log.

I don't know who keeps the follow-up log right now, but.

Yeah, I would say just as long as it's not,

like you have a survey and you're giving it to the public

and saying this is from the commission.

Absolutely, totally.

Just making sure.

Yeah, it's clear.

Thank you.

On the other hand,

I might love to see that survey come out

as a product of the commission.

Yeah.

So that we all get to sort of like learn about it

and make sure our district council members, et cetera,

are supportive, informed,

helping distribute it, et cetera.

So I would love to see a survey like that.

Commissioner Garcia.

Another one, I'm totally for the follow-up of the work plan.

We've used that the last, what, year or two.

It not only kind of organizes us, but it makes me look back and think,

oh, yeah, what did I sign up for?

What have I done on that?

reaching out to some of the associations that Denise and I attended.

We'd call ahead and we would actually end up on their agenda.

So they knew we were coming so they could ask us questions.

I think Phillip went with us a couple times.

So that was a big help.

We just started reaching out to different districts

and who was interested in having us at their meetings.

And then you go back to the follow-up log, come back,

and report on it or put it in the work plan at a later date.

but I'm totally for this and how we've used it so far.

And via that, in a sense, she is speaking for the commission because it's on our work plan.

So when they go out and meet with neighborhood groups, they tell them about the commission.

They talk about what their knowledge is of issues going on at the shelter or whatever.

Any other folks on the commission with additional questions or concerns?

This was in your packet, so you could take a look at that.

Okay.

Commissioner comments, ideas, and questions.

This is for commissioner members,

and I'm going to suggest that this is a place

to be sure that topics you want on the follow-up log

are brought forward.

Commissioner Verga Middleton.

I just keep on muting and unmuting.

I was just thinking that we might want to

either have Shannon you mentioned those community clinics

either give a presentation or in the very least be able to

share with the rest of the commissioners what the needs are for those community clinics

in case we might be able to help with fundraising absence the city

waiving those fees or otherwise getting the rest of the commission involved

I feel like that's an easier thing for us

to be able to help out with perhaps

Yeah. So I think what your request would be add to the follow up log that the shelter provide us a report on what they need or at least like a bullet of what we could do to be helpful to make those a success.

Okay. For the free vaccine clinics.

Thank you.

I know, I'm just adding this in here,

that at previous times there have been presentations from shelter staff.

We cannot compel staff to come to this commission and make presentations.

We can invite them, but we cannot compel them to come.

I think a report is helpful that could outline what they need

in terms of space and parking and port-a-potties, et cetera.

Commissioner McDoll.

I would request that this commission

get an analysis of kennel capacity,

including an evaluation of capacity

and comparing it both pre-COVID and current numbers,

because it seems that prior to COVID,

the capacity or what was allowed

was higher numbers than the current

practice.

It'll go on

I point you to the needs assessment

there is a full analysis of capacity

in that needs assessment.

Also

That was the one you requested by the way

for them to send back out to us all?

Yes. Yes.

It's about 123 pages

just in case you want.

and analysis things will require potentially require money and so those of

us who are saying we want this work done where such analysis comes from is part

of a discussion of what where that money comes from to do analysis for things so

that's just a message that I've learned here so you're saying like including

impact of COVID? Is that kind of? Well, it seemed like pre-COVID that

kennels were allowed, or kennel capacity was higher,

or the numbers that were allowed to be at the

facility were higher than current.

So I guess it would be more of the trends. Yeah, yeah.

Definitely would review that part, which was a full

analysis of how many kennels and how many animals and what is the turnover and how many, what's

the length of stay and a whole host of things.

I look forward to seeing it.

Commissioner Bagley.

Thank you.

I have two things I would like to see added on to the follow-up calendar.

I'll start with the easy one.

I would like, and I was prepared to actually move to vote when I walked in here tonight

because both of them are very important to me.

one is an item to discuss the policies of spay and neuter on redemptions of animals

as the policies are being followed and you know our job as a commission is to involve ourselves

with the strategies policies and programs of the shelter and this would be one of them

and i just want to add that the city code as well as the county code requires spay and neuter

upon the return the second time an animal is picked up or found or brought in.

And I think that we could all discuss incentivizing spay and neuter

even for the first time the animal is returned.

I think we can brainstorm that,

but I would also like to know the numbers of whether we are following the city code

in spaying and neutering on that second redemption because that is a mandate.

The second thing I would like to see on the follow-up log, which has at least a bit more urgency attached to it,

is I would like to see a discussion of, and Ms. Verga touched on it, and it's been discussed.

Mr. Hinderman, you had it on your list.

The request for proposals for the standard operating procedures.

and I'm sure Mr. Henderman you know that those were due or promised back in July

and we were under the impression and we're told that the shelter itself and shelter staff

and various employees were going to come together and develop those policies

and publish those policies, create them and that did not happen

And then the RFP went out for a vendor to come in and establish those policies.

However, this commission, many people on the commission stand ready and willing to gather up SOPs from other shelters,

other local shelters, either out of state or out of county shelters, as well as talk to staff,

and certainly the legal ramifications of the policies.

and I would like a discussion of whether it is wise to be spending that money on a vendor

when I believe we're all capable of coming together and establishing appropriate SOPs for Front Street.

I think we can do it.

And I'd say all this, both of those things, because it involves spay and neuter.

Every dime we save can go to spay and neuter.

And in a perfect world, we would find a building and we would have an extra vet crew and they would be dedicated to that.

And that would be my ultimate goal.

I do all the scheduling for MASH for the animal balance for the county.

In the last month, probably two months, I've talked to over 750 people.

I can't even tell you how desperate people are for spay and neuter.

They are so appreciative.

They want it so badly.

And these are people who have already had litters, and they know what it's like to go through it, and they want it, but they can't afford these prices.

These are absolutely outrageous.

And, of course, MASH and Animal Balance, it's a free program.

And, I mean, I'm told this last weekend there was one in North Highlands, and I'm told that I heard the first day, I signed up 75 each day, and the first day they did over 85.

so I just can't even emphasize it enough

and every dime we spent

if we reduced

if the city gave us $600,000

and we were able to reduce

those

somebody calls them band-aid fixes

interim fixes

my gosh

I mean we could spay and neuter so many more animals

and we could work on a plan

where when we foster out an animal

that animal's already spayed and neutered

and we don't have to worry about whether or not it's going to be breeding out there,

even for a week, and every animal.

We could get ahead of this instead of behind it.

And so, you know, you're going to hear me over and over for the new commissioners.

You're going to hear me trying to save a dime and have it go to spay and neuter.

There's no way we should be accepting money and sending it back

and not spending it on spay and neuter.

And I don't care who needs it, who wants it, give it to them

because we're reacting.

We're not preventing.

So I would really like to discuss those two things, okay?

I would like those agendas.

I think the first one has a sense of urgency attached to it,

and that is the SOPs and sending that out to a vendor

and spending city money to pay people to come up with SOPs

that we are capable of doing.

Some of us have been advocating and been active in this business

for close to 40 years.

We can do this.

And then the other one, of course,

is the spay and neuter on the redemption of animals.

We can incentivize that.

There's just no reason not to.

Okay?

Thank you.

Point of clarification.

Who keeps the follow-up log?

I mean, I'm making notes, but I'm not in charge of it.

So who keeps the follow-up log?

I thought.

Well, I think it would be Animal Care Services staff who get notes from the meeting and then use those notes and meeting recordings to determine what is going to be then agendized for future meetings.

Thank you.

Commissioner Verga Middleton?

Record it.

I mean, I know you're looking at me.

I'm making notes, but I'm...

Yeah.

Yeah.

Commissioner Benedict.

No.

Sorry, we called on...

I called on them, and then I saw their names.

Kelly, go ahead, and I'll go after you.

Commissioner Benedict.

Okay, well, first I...

Okay, I'm unmuted.

Thank you.

First, I'd like to, if I can respond to Commissioner Bagley.

For a minute.

I agree 100% about the SOPs.

I don't know if we can get a vote on that or somehow to get it on the, okay, if we can

get it at least on the, for future discussions.

I think it's on the follow-up log.

It's a great idea, and why spend money when we have people here that are very capable

of that?

I think that's a really good point.

And I'd like to move for the commission to place as a priority on the follow-up log,

hopefully somebody's keeping track of these,

that any operational or policy changes that happen at Front Street Animal Shelter

should be reviewed by the Animal Well-Being Commission

and should be open for public discussion for input prior to the implementation

of that. For example, and I did a little bit of my own, just, you know, me asking people

what their concerns are regarding Front Street and their experience with Front Street. And

one of my outreach results was there's substantial and consistent concerns about the,

that Front Street may be negatively impacting animals by its foster program

that prohibits healthy and adoptable animals being put into fosters.

And I know, you know, I'm a frequent foster,

and so I know how important fostering is, and it saves lives.

and so I know that a lot of the animals that are not that are able to be adopted very adoptable

such as the seniors which I have a big I'm a sucker for the seniors

they're the ones that are at risk of euthanasia and other vulnerable animals without any you know

public notice. So, you know, there should be a public euthanasia notice and, you

know, something put on the door, the cage of the animal, that this animal is at

risk of euthanasia. Because if nobody knows that, that animal doesn't have the

opportunity to live. So, I mean, how do we know if we're not informed? So I would

like that to be a priority item on the on the follow-up log as one I mentioned

point out it is on the follow-up law and this is where reading the log and and

verbiage in the log may be a challenge it's at risk dogs Commissioner Garcia

requested a discussion item to discuss at-risk and senior dogs at the shelter

so that I think is pretty much but this is a recent change in the foster I'm

I'm talking about the fostering.

They should be able to be placed in foster.

And, you know, there should be no reason why a foster can't take a senior or elderly, you know, dog or other type of dog that's at risk, you know.

So I don't know how that happened.

But I just think that if there's any policy changes, my main point here, that was just an example.

My main point is that any sort of policy change should be brought by the commission, and we should be able to discuss it, and then also the public should be able to give us their input before any policy changes are enacted.

Thank you.

Ryan, did you have a response to what she...

Yeah, I just wanted to follow up.

Can you clarify your understanding or your impression of senior animals not being able to go to foster care?

There was a, what I heard was that there's a new law that animals without the permission of staff,

certain staff members, they are not allowed to go to foster.

They have to remain there.

And if that person is not at the shelter, then the animal is at risk of being euthanized that day.

So that's my understanding of the issues that I've, that particular issue.

But my main point is that, you know, there should be, before policies or whatever procedures are being implemented,

they should run it by the commission so we can open it up to the public.

Because there aren't any really standard operating procedures that I know of.

Like, there isn't a list, correct?

And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm new.

As far as, I mean, there's different ways to think about standard operating procedures.

The kind that we have internal procedures, but we're talking about policies that are official city policies that could hold employees accountable for discipline and things like that.

There's a whole different process behind like a formal city policy.

So that's what we're talking about drafting here.

but certainly there's written documents and guidelines for a lot of different things internally.

As far as what you're mentioning with senior dogs not going to foster,

I'll kind of do some digging on my end to figure out maybe where that idea might be coming from.

So, and I'll try to include that in next month's follow-up.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

So is it, it's not your impression that senior dogs are disallowed to be fostered?

No, I think there's a missing piece here,

so I'm just going to try to figure out what the origin of that is.

Commissioner Virgo or Middleton?

Okay.

Ryan, I can, I have also heard through many sources that,

and there's actually a text that came out from volunteers that's being shared,

just FYI, that the operations manager has changed the foster policy and prefers that,

not prefers, has made clear that animals that are adoptable and healthy should not be going to foster.

I've also heard that, and evidently Kelly heard that from some people in her community as well.

and the real fundamental concern with that there's so many fundamental concerns with that

but you know i mean any shelter any kennel space is very valuable real estate in a shelter

and there's always more animals coming in and the more animals that go out especially to

responsible caring homes the better you know that they have a better opportunity to be saved

But the other thing that I think is really important that everybody understand is that that euthanasia list that goes out or subject to euthanasia, red lists, rescue lists, transfer partners, whatever you want to call it, that does not include every animal that is ultimately euthanized.

and so for instance if an animal can't go to foster even if it's not on that euthanasia list

or that red list that doesn't mean its life isn't at risk and that it could not be euthanized

tomorrow and so fostering restricting fostering is a problem you know and so I think that's that's

what Kelly was referencing and I would agree.

Okay, yeah, let me look into it and kind of see,

clarify what exactly, what was said

and then also rationale behind whatever was actually said

and I plan to report back.

That'd be great, thank you.

Other comments or questions from commissioners?

I was responding to that, but I did have another.

Sure. Go ahead. Okay. So I know that you had mentioned about the at-risk dogs is on the

follow-up log. And I just remember Julia, when she was here at a commission meeting,

had talked about what Bradshaw does, which is called a final plea. So I just would like to

add to that for the follow-up log. I think, I mean, I see it at Bradshaw all the time that it

saves lives. I just recently was contacted by somebody who went to Bradshaw to get one dog,

saw the final plea notification for a Malinois that had some behavior issues, and who this person

contacted, they got the Malinois, they saved the Malinois, they're not going to keep the Malinois,

they just want to get behavior training and help this dog to save its life. And that just

makes perfect sense that we are transparent about what's going on at the shelter,

and that a notification that an animal is subject to euthanasia saves lives.

And again, tying back into what I was saying before,

if they're not on that rescue list,

how is somebody going to know that their life's at risk, you know, unless it's there?

And it really does work to save lives.

And I think so a notification, a final plea is a great idea, Kathy.

And I'd love to see that not only on a kennel door, but online, too, because you'll get more animals out the door alive.

And one more thing.

So, finally, one more thing that I think is really important, and it's definitely within the scope of the committee,

is I would like to request our attorney,

Hilary Bagley Franzoya,

who was a prosecutor in the district attorney's office

of animal abusers

and is well-versed in animal welfare laws,

both statewide and our city ordinances.

I would love to have her come in

and do a presentation on laws

pertaining to state and local laws.

And I believe that's already on the follow-up log, but I'm just going to reiterate that I would love to see that happen sooner than later.

And that's it. Thank you.

I support that since I actually put it on the log a year ago or whenever.

So I support that personally.

Any other commissioners? Commissioner Bagley.

I think originally, the first time I came to a meeting, I mentioned that I teach cruelty,

and I ended up on the log, not asking to be on the log, regarding cruelty training,

which is very graphic and very dark, and it really would not be appropriate in this forum.

Now, does that mean I don't teach anymore?

You know that I do.

I teach officers.

I teach kennel employees, inside staff, everything.

There has been an overture that I go to city from a city staff member, and I intend to do that.

I've already taught at county many times.

But I think, Ms. Verga, you're talking about what was brought up at our last meeting in November,

which is a clarification of the obligations of municipal shelters as they pertain to accepting animals.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's what you would like me to focus on.

Yes.

Make a presentation in front of the public in front of the commission, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

In that vein, I have 15 copies, hard copies of the city code for commissioners.

So to you, ladies and gentlemen, if you are interested in a hard copy,

so you don't have to constantly be looking up the chapter on animals,

I have 15 copies here, and I'm willing to give you all a copy

because when I do, when and if I eventually get off the follow-up log

and present some law to you regarding shelter obligations,

I'm going to start with the city code and then segue in to state law.

So if you would like to get ahead of things,

I'd be more than happy to share this with you.

Okay?

That'd be great.

Thank you.

Looking to the clerk for any guidance.

Can she pass materials around?

I do believe so, but I would keep in mind that anything that's passed out at the dais will have to be uploaded for public record.

But she also did say if you would like.

So she didn't say she would actually pass it out.

It's if you guys would like to go to her for the report that she's handing out, then you're more than welcome to.

Looking back and forth between you and Carson.

So it's okay for us to receive that from her after the meeting if we would like?

I think public record would be great.

I mean, I don't have a problem.

I don't see a problem putting it in the public record,

but it is public.

It's legal documents.

Sorry, can we?

She passed out her document that cites all the legal implications for shelter care.

You're saying at a future meeting?

Oh, right now.

She said she has 15 copies.

It's just a hard copy of the chapter on animals from the city code.

It's nothing I've.

If it's a matter of public record and it's, you know, part of the city code,

then I don't see a reason why not.

So she could pass it out today and make sure you guys get a copy?

Right.

Just to clarify, this is all a matter of public record.

It's all available on American Legal Publishing on the website as well.

Okay.

And I just to tag on a bit,

if there is a presentation that would be appropriate, Commissioner Bagley,

not necessarily what I did see you share at Bradshaw, a few of us,

but something supportive of the knowledge base here that could be valuable.

Commissioner Benedict.

Yes.

I just wanted to maybe clarify or maybe bring up a suggestion, if I could, about the follow-up log.

Should we be selecting somebody to keep track of everything on the follow-up log?

Since we're not sure how that works, how things get on there and stay on there.

I'm not sure how that's worked in the past.

I think City Attorney Carson kind of clarified that earlier,

that we take notes here at the meeting

and then it gets passed on to the staff?

Who takes notes is what I'm asking.

Well, it would be Animal Care Services staff.

But additionally, anyone is free to take notes

on anything that happens in the meeting.

So I don't think you need to specifically elect a commission member

to take notes.

If you want to take notes on the follow-up log, that's 100% acceptable.

But I'm just wondering, how does it,

you know, like somebody brought up, well, nobody's taking notes.

So how do we make sure that everything we're talking about gets on the follow-up log?

Because there's no city staff or shelter staff.

Mr. Henderman.

One thing you'll learn about me is I'm a copious note taker.

Okay.

My furious clicking is every point that I hear made.

Hopefully I haven't missed any.

So you're the, okay.

All right.

Good to know.

Thank you.

And as chair or vice chair in the past, I have tried to track and provide some feedback if I had the opportunity to.

Great, thank you.

Just as part of the role, I thought.

Commissioner Verga and or Middleton.

So just a really good point that Kelly brought up, because I found it interesting that Leah,

and you've been the chair for a long time, or vice chair,

that you didn't know where the follow-up log is kept

and who's keeping track of it.

And so I think, and so I guess I'm just trying to,

I don't know that I still really understand that.

Is that, Ryan, is that Front Street that keeps track of that?

Because I do think, I think there's some things on there

that maybe have been taken care of or addressed,

is that what you were saying, that are still on the follow-up log?

and then just to keep track, I think, as a commission as we go forward,

well, what got on it, what's a priority,

all those things would be a good idea.

Maybe new chair.

Yeah, I think in the tenure that I've been here,

the log was sort of not the guiding tool.

The work plan was the guiding tool.

so the log was a few things that we were like oh we need to ask about x um

does the city community development department have a template for RFP to get an architect to

come so so so the log was sort of like just nitpicky like little details who do we talk to

it's community development it was not our agenda development it the work plan was sort of our

agenda development and so Kathy and Denise talking about we would go

through the work plan and that was sort of how the agenda got created was the

items on the work plan report back to us on what you're doing on translation

tell us what's happening with the needs assessment what's the architects next

step so we we worked on our work and the log was used differently and maybe it's

through lack of understanding how the log was supposed to drive things but it

was really sort of a placeholder catch-all for a few things here and there

it didn't drive the business per se the work plan sort of drove the business but

but well so I just sitting here trying to do the best we I can to help animals

I guess my question is what is driving the agenda and does city staff look at

the work plan? Do you look at the log? What would be the best way for us to communicate as a

commission to Front Street what's most important? I guess, right? That's what we're looking at here.

I would offer that Commissioner Berrigan suggested picking a few priorities through our ordinance

and focusing and identifying a project

and working on that project to the completion of it.

So a survey of community members,

if we think that's a priority,

if we think understanding what the foster policy is,

follow up on that.

There's only so much folks have time to do.

And so, again, I always want to go back to the ordinance

and what is it that we're doing

that is related to what we're charged to do

and how can we hone in on specific things

that then we could support.

So that's the best I can think to say at the moment

is the work plan and or the ordinance

is kind of the driving force.

Ryan, any thoughts?

So may I speak?

Let's let Ryan respond to it.

Okay.

Can you just reclarify your question, Commissioner Berger?

I guess I just want us to be thinking about, as we go forward, because I know it's a long night.

Maybe we just think about this so we can approach it next time, and then I'll let Kelly go in.

but I'm just kind of confused as a commissioner

as to what's the best way to put forward,

you know, what our concerns are,

what we hear from the community

so that we can help animals as much as possible

within the context and scope of the ordinance.

So I think that's the bigger question

and one of the things that came up

is the follow up log versus like the work plan.

maybe is what's leading the charge for you?

I mean, I'm still learning about our director's priorities

as far as what goes on to,

and we've talked about the follow-up law,

we've talked about the agenda.

I think my experience, it's a combination

of what is the most relevant or timely,

what is the most important,

as conveyed by the commission or the public,

and then to Leah's point,

like what also is the most helpful?

Like what is, you know, if there's items

that you guys are working on,

so for example, like the great work you guys did

with the study of where adoptable,

you know, where adoptions are coming from.

If there's an item like that

that needs a response to move forward,

then that's probably gonna bump it up in priority.

So I think there's multiple factors to it.

I don't have like a formula at this time,

but I'll be able to get more refined

with my answer on that as time goes on.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I'm going to step in here a little bit

of prerogative of the chair.

According to that clock,

there's like two minutes left in this hour.

We haven't asked for public input

at the end of the agenda

and there is a single speaker for public input.

I'm not sure if we extended the meeting for an hour

or until I'm not sure what the city rules are.

Yes, we extended the meeting to go to the third hour.

Oh, so we're almost at the end of that third hour.

So can we take public input now?

And I apologize, but we've run out of time, and we have one public comment.

Yes.

So moving on to public comment matters not on the agenda.

We have Lynn.

Hello.

My name is Lynn Wiley, and I volunteered with Front Street for about 18 years until mid-2024.

For most of those years, I was really involved with the administration of what we call the Community Spay Neuter Program, myself and about seven or eight volunteers.

And I know there's been so much discussion about spay neuter, but I don't believe that this program is particularly well known or discussed.

And I'm here tonight to make sure that everyone on the commission is aware of the program and to ask you to look into how it can be made more robust.

So the program and its funding are codified.

the language sits within a discussion of fees that are charged by the shelter

and the language specifically says that a minimum of 50% of all penalty fees collected

pursuant to this section and 50% of all unaltered license fees collected by animal care

shall be placed in a sterilization fund and used to finance public or private programs

that provide sterilization programs to low-income individuals or families in the city.

I think it's particularly important that the language focuses on low-income families.

So my question is really are, has Brent Street ever been audited to confirm that they are allocating a minimum of 50% of those fees as required by code?

I have no reason to believe that they're not, but I don't know who's tracking that.

And if they are only allocating 50% of those fees, please keep in mind that the language says that a minimum of 50% of those fees should be allocated.

So there is perhaps room to grow the program.

And I would add also after attending tonight's meeting

that perhaps this item, that is how many spain eaters have been done

under the shelter program can be added to the ACS monthly report

so that you guys are aware of what's happening.

Between 2008 and 2024, 24,600 animals were fixed under the program

for low-income families.

Unfortunately, the peak was 2013 when 2,700 animals were fixed.

in 2024 there were 816 fixed

so the numbers are going down

thank you for your comments your time is now complete

thank you chair we have no more speakers

then I think I can use the gavel one last time and say we're adjourned

yes please

Huh?

We'll be right back.