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Good evening, welcome to the Wednesday

February 11th

meeting of the Animal Wellbeing Commission

The meeting is now called to order. Will the clerk please call the roll to establish a quorum?

Yes. Commissioners, will you please unmute your microphones?

Commissioner Treat?

Here.

Commissioner Snell is absent.

Commissioner Berga?

Here.

Commissioner Hayes?

Here.

Commissioner Baraghan?

Here.

Sorry about that.

Commissioner Bell?

Here.

Commissioner Benedict?

Here.

Commissioner Bagley?

Present, thank you.

Commissioner Christie?

Here.

Commissioner Few?

Here.

Commissioner Morris?

Here.

Commissioner Garcia?

Here.

And Chair McDowell?

Here.

Thank you.

We have a quorum.

All right.

I would like to remind members of the public in chambers that if you'd like to speak on

an agenda item, please turn in a speaker slip before the item begins.

After the item is called, we will no longer accept speaker slips, and you will have two

minutes.

and the timer will be up on the screen for you to speak once you're called on.

So we'll now proceed with today's agenda.

First off, please rise if you're able to for the opening acknowledgement

in honor of the Sacramento's indigenous people and tribal land.

I'd like to ask outgoing Vice Chair President Morris to read, if you'd be so kind.

May I get the script?

Absolutely.

Thank you.

of acknowledgement and appreciation for Sacramento's indigenous peoples history,

contributions, and lives. And thank you. So now please remain standing for the

Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

and for the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you for that.

Sorry for putting you on the spot.

I actually meant to talk to you before, but I didn't get a chance.

Next up is the consent calendar.

For those in the public, just so you know, a consent calendar is considered as one item,

consisting of matters deemed routine and non-controversial and typically adopted in one motion.

Any member may comment on any item or request to pull an item from the consent calendar for a separate vote.

Clerk, are there any members of the public who wish to speak on the consent calendar?

I do not have any speaker slips for these items.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any commissioners who wish to speak on these items?

Yeah, Commissioner Benedict?

Yes, I would like to pull item number two, the follow-up log from the consent calendar due to, there's some inconsistencies on there that we need to discuss.

So are you making a motion to pull it from the consent calendar?

Yes, if we can pull it from the consent calendar so we can discuss it further.

Is there a second to that motion?

I second.

Any motivation to your motion?

Well, yes.

So there is some verbiage in the follow-up log.

It's inaccurate.

And each one has some inaccuracies, so there's quite a bit.

We need to kind of go through it and fix the verbiage, make it correct.

Okay.

Is there any public comment on,

we actually wouldn't have to public, no.

Any other commissioners have any?

I would like to also ask on the consent calendar

that the minutes, that we have a discussion

regarding the minutes, there are some inaccuracies.

Point of order, we should finish one motion

that's on the floor.

Oh, I'm sorry, so we're still on two.

Okay, so I guess your question is,

do we have other concerns about the follow-up log?

I have many concerns about the follow-up log.

And so I would maybe say,

maybe we could start at the top and go down

because I think.

We vote on this first.

Okay, gotcha.

And then we would move it then to discussion.

That'd be great.

And then that's where any revisions can be made.

Okay, so.

So is there any other discussion

on removing it from the consent calendar.

I just ask for clarification over whether,

so we are talking about the follow-up log

that we would have seen in last month's agenda

because the follow-up log is our second item

on tonight's agenda, which was provided.

So I'm just wanting to make sure I have the right thing

that we're talking about.

It would be about the revisions that were made

that were attached to the minutes for last month?

Yes.

Thanks.

Uh-huh.

Commissioner Morris.

Just to make me clear, thank you.

The consent calendar currently consists of two items,

the minutes from last month and the current follow-up.

log. If I'm understanding correctly, Commissioner Bennett asked that this follow-up log be separated

from the consent calendar and discussed in more detail. Is that correct?

Correct. Yes. Just to fix some inconsistencies, at least I'm sure other commissioners, I guess,

have some suggestions or they see some issues with it. So, yeah, we just need to fix it.

this follow up log that came with this agenda

that we would discuss in more detail.

Correct.

Any other discussion on removing it

from the consent calendar?

So there's a motion and a second on the floor

to remove the follow up log from the consent calendar.

We are now move this one we can do a verbal.

Okay, so all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed.

I only heard three ayes, so I would like to request a roll call vote.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Please unmute your microphones.

Commissioner Treat.

Aye.

Commissioner Snell is absent.

Commissioner Verga.

Aye.

Commissioner Hayes.

Aye.

Commissioner Baraghan.

Nay.

Commissioner Bell.

No.

Commissioner Benedict.

Aye.

Commissioner Bagley.

Aye.

Commissioner Christie.

Nay.

Commissioner Few.

Aye.

Commissioner Few.

Aye.

Commissioner Garcia.

Sorry, Commissioner Morris.

Abstain.

Commissioner Garcia.

And Chair McDowell.

Aye.

Double checking with the city attorney is seven a passing.

Okay, the motion passes.

Okay, so the follow-up log will now be moved to the discussion calendar.

Yes.

I have a special request that has nothing to do with the actual calendar, but our side's kind of slight tonight.

Can Commissioner Pugh come over and sit in Doug's seat since they're all sharing computers over there?

Is that all right?

Yeah.

Come on over.

Noemi.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We have a lot of room over here.

Give Commissioner Fum a moment to settle.

All right, so we're back on the consent calendar,

which at this point just consists of the minutes.

If there are revisions to the minutes,

those can be proposed without removing it

from the consent calendar.

Are there any speakers in regards to the consent calendar,

now including only the minutes?

Commissioner Garcia.

Am I on?

Okay. On the minutes, as far as I think it's either a correction or it's at least something I wanted to bring up.

When we voted for chair and vice chair, that was one vote, and it separated out into two votes.

So as far as I see, that should probably be corrected.

I don't know why we ended up doing it in one vote, but it separated out into two, and I think that should probably be corrected.

We'll make that edit.

Okay.

Any other corrections?

Excuse me.

I would like to ask that going well I think this needs to be corrected the

minutes need to be corrected because there's no PowerPoint that's attached

to the manager's report and for Brown's act that should be attached and it's not

and I'd say once that the PowerPoint for the manager's report is attached that it

could be approved? So the minutes we do are action minutes so they are reflecting

the actions taken during the meeting. The agenda with the staff report and the

attachments is separate from that. So the minutes are only going to reflect the

actions you all take on each item. They won't include it doesn't include the

staff report or any other attachments. Would it only include motions that are

made so not items that are on the follow-up log is that correct so it lists

the item and then it would say passed a motion approving and they would say the

votes and how the actions that were taken. Gotcha so if I was going to ask

you where would be the appropriate place for me to object to the to the managers

report not being attached to the agenda item where would that be please.

That would be a matter of speaking with staff and discussing or talking to the chair and

then discussing what's included with the staff report.

So again, the agenda and the staff report and the attachments and what's included in

the agenda itself is separate from the minutes.

So the staff report and everything comes from staff separately.

We don't include PowerPoints as records.

so it's not going to be part of the minutes that are the action minutes.

Gotcha.

Sorry, the PowerPoint is made part of the record,

but it's not part of the minutes, to clarify what I said.

So where is the PowerPoint?

Oh, excuse me.

It's uploaded with the agenda itself to our records repository system.

Is it uploaded today on the manager's report?

And the PowerPoint for last month is not uploaded anywhere that's accessible to the public.

And is it uploaded to the records site so you have access to view it there?

So the.

And I'm sure if you guys request a copy from the staff, you may be able to get a copy of

it there.

Yeah.

And we can follow up with, we'll voice your concern to our office and then also if we'd

like we can show you where to find the records on the city's website,

where to find the agenda on the city's website,

where to find the minutes because they are separate.

To give you background on why we're asking is we've had complaints.

I've had complaints from members of the public that that is not attached to the

manager's report for the public to see.

I understand.

Yeah.

So I just want to go in the record saying that.

Okay.

Julie noted.

Thank you.

And I would request as chair that you show me after the meeting where the record site is.

I would appreciate it.

Right.

Mr. Henderman.

Oh, I think Commissioner Benedict's.

I think that's.

Is that old?

That's old.

Okay.

Sorry.

So my understanding, clerk, staff, correct me if I'm wrong, is that PowerPoints, historically the process,

has been that PowerPoints have been due by 8 a.m. the day of the commission.

And so, you know, they're kind of uploaded at the last minute.

In the case of the manager's reports, up until now I've, you know, created it last minute,

so the statistics and the updates are the most up-to-date.

But there's a recent change now where PowerPoints also have to be uploaded as attachments

with the creation of the agenda.

So for future meetings, that should, any PowerPoint attachment should already be uploaded.

I think a couple weeks in advance when the agendas are uploaded.

So happy to make an effort to do that.

Much appreciated.

Commissioner Garcia or Morris?

I'm just realizing I think the count may have occurred

because I think it takes seven aye votes to separate the item

and I think there were one, two, three, four,

5, 6 aye votes.

There were

abstentions and there were two abstentions

and a few no's. So 6

aye votes. No, I believe it was 7.

1, 2, 3, 4,

5, 6, 7. Oh, you're right. I miscounted.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Commissioner Bagley.

Along this line

and I'm probably out of order

on the follow-up

further down but I was thinking it would be much easier to deal with the time crunch that the

shelter is under for results if we were able to get the statistics for just the month before

that way you wouldn't feel that you would have to give us the numbers for the first two weeks

in the current month so tonight we probably could have received statistics much earlier with the

agenda if they had ended the last day of January, like January 1st to January 31st.

And I'm wondering if other commissioners feel the same way.

Is it so important to have an extra two weeks of stats when we could get them earlier, view

them, ponder the numbers, but we would have the month before?

Kusher Barragan.

I think that's super exciting.

and I think it's less burdensome on you.

I don't want to speak for you,

but it just makes a lot of sense.

So I don't know if it's to make a motion,

to put it on the agenda, to have that switch

or whatever the process is, but I'm in support.

I don't think that would require a motion.

Commissioner Christie?

Thank you.

Yeah, I was just...

Oh, my goodness.

Sorry.

I was going to agree about the statistics

the numbers. I think that makes a lot of sense. But I do like being able to get like to the day

updates on the staffing updates and if there's a disease outbreak or like those policy pieces.

And I'm not sure how you'd separate them out. But stats make sense. But I like the more current

info with everything else. Mr. Hinderman? Yeah. I'm happy to say if you guys rather have stats

looking back on the previous month, I'm happy to put those together. And I can either send

them directly or if you would like me to include them with the presentation I'm fine with that

as well. And then as far as the most up-to-date reports that would just need to be like an

oral report essentially. So I'm guessing that's fine.

Question. So as far as the stats from the month prior, could they be added as a supplement

to the agenda so the public could see them? Because that's the complaint we're hearing.

Yeah, now that essentially all PowerPoints have to be uploaded at time of agenda creation,

if you want it as essentially as a PowerPoint presentation, I can basically upload, you know, the stats at that time.

So it would be available, you know, a couple weeks prior to the meeting.

So does, Chair, does this require a vote?

And if so, I don't believe it has to be put on the follow-up calendar to be heard next month.

It's my understanding that the follow-up calendar for purposes of commissioners is only procedural and administrative so we can keep our acts straight.

But there are no requirements that we maintain a follow-up log.

So I'm just wondering if we could go ahead and vote if it's required, only if it's required.

I don't believe that this is just an administrative request.

I don't believe that the vote's required at all.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Unless the clerk, unless you believe there is.

We can just take direction to staff and do it during the item itself.

Very good.

All right.

So, is there a motion to approve the consent calendar with the corrections requested?

I move to approve the consent calendar.

Second.

Which would be the minutes.

Oh, the minutes, yes.

Just the minutes.

Yes, okay, so we're gonna try to do a voice vote.

We, our clerk has to hear voices this time.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Any abstentions?

Very good motion cavers, thank you.

All right, so now we're going to proceed to discussing the follow-up log as requested.

And it's been removed, so there can be discussion and...

This would also be the time if there, since it's moved down to discussion, if the public

has any comments to fill out a slip to make any comments because we are open to that.

So seeing nobody moving to fill out a slip, I'm assuming there's no one in the public

who wished to speak on this.

So commissioners who wish to speak on these items on the consent or the follow-up log.

I'm sorry. Can you say that again?

Please request to speak on your pad if you wish to speak on the follow-up log.

I would like to request to speak.

Okay. Oh, sorry.

Commissioner Treat.

Commissioner Treat.

Yes.

On the follow-up blog, and I found out today from one of the city council members that

the vote that we did on the dogs increasing to four was coming back to this committee.

I don't understand, but can someone, Carson, do you know about that?

So law and legislation asked that the suggested ordinance change for, I believe it was 9.44.370, I believe,

include certain exceptions relating to animals that are perhaps too sick, too elderly, etc. for spay-neuter

under the additional fourth animal requirements.

So what we're doing now is we are bringing the draft ordinance back to our office,

which has its draft ordinance review committee.

Once those edits are approved by the attorneys within the draft ordinance review committee,

we can then bring the new draft ordinance with those additions to the animal well-being commission for consideration.

And then we go from there with another vote and then it goes back through the process again?

Correct.

Thank you.

Commissioner Bagley.

Well, I'm sure I'm going to want to chime in on several of these items if you're going item by item.

But regarding the first one with the maximum number of dogs that Commissioner Treat is very interested in,

I wanted to be known that I did work with Commissioner Treat on this.

And my idea of this was that there would not be exceptions and that if a person wanted a fourth dog, it was an opportunity to make sure that all the animals in this fully animal house would be fixed.

And that was my idea, and it was my intent in voting on it.

And I want to make sure the city attorney understands that.

Right.

This was just a motion that was made by law and ledge to include that and then bring it to this commission for consideration.

So it's not necessarily a set in stone change.

It's going to be considered by the commission.

Thank you.

All right.

For purpose of organization, maybe we should go in order of these.

And if anyone, if there's things hopefully on the log that nobody has comments on, we can move on.

So we've kind of discussed already increased number of dogs residents can own.

Is there anyone else who?

Okay.

Commissioner Morris.

I had a couple questions.

One is can we maybe request an opinion from veterinarians about what elderly or sick animals might appropriately be excluded from this ordinance?

And the other question which is I think more to our intention is, is there some exclusion

for people who are planning to breed animals? Or will this in essence outlaw and I'm good

with outlaw breeding animals in Sacramento. I just wonder if that is something that needs

to be taken into consideration. Having just seen a mom and five puppies, that would seem

to be an issue we might want to think about in terms of how do we manage breeding. I don't

know. Is it only if they're AKC registered families who can breed or I don't know. And

I don't know if there's an age limit, but again, I saw a mom and five puppies recently when I was volunteering with the county.

They can be under eight weeks.

Okay.

Okay.

Not qualified, I think.

Okay.

But it still made me think about, well, are we-

It sounds like a good conversation for when it actually comes back to this commission.

Certainly make sure to make notes so that we can bring it back when it's an actual agenda item.

I just wonder if we could have some ahead of time opinion, for example, from the veterinarians.

We'll make note.

Any other discussion on the first item in the follow-up log?

Seeing none.

Second item is euthanasia numbers.

The request is on there for staff to present euthanasia numbers and rates.

Commissioner Treat.

Yeah, another one of mine.

What can I say?

In March, I asked for more information on euthanasia,

that it be broken out and reported to us.

I think we all understand that certain animals need to be put down for good reason.

They're in terrible pain.

You can't fix them.

They're so old they've lost all their appetite and they're dying.

There are lots of reasons.

but I wanted it broken down more than it had been in the logs we had seen as to why they were put

down. It's not that you can't put them down it's that there should be reasons other than space in

the shelter. So I remember asking that maybe even before March but March is when it got put on the

follow-up log. So part of my concern is that it's almost March again and this is pretty far up on

the follow-up blog, but I still haven't seen a lot of the separation. So that's troubling to me

because I get questions in the community asking me why was, you know, Fido put down or why was

the kitty put down? And I don't have any answers for them. So I just wanted more clarity and more

timely reports if we could. Commissioner Bagley?

I just wanted to say it seems to me that if we are able to shift the numbers and the time crunch

so that staff doesn't have to worry and they're just giving us the month before,

I would hope that they could give it to us monthly instead of quarterly.

I know we do at Bradshaw.

I'm not trying to compare Front Street with Bradshaw,

but we get a very detailed report in line with what Commissioner Treat has been asking for for a year.

There have been other commissioners that have asked for this on a monthly basis as well,

and I'm one of them.

I would be interested in seeing it, and I'm hoping that staff can accommodate us and provide them monthly.

Now, if there's been a vote and we voted for quarterly, well, then I would defer to you, Chair, as to how we change that or take a potential vote to adjust that.

So are you making a motion to have it on next month's agenda or some other time frame agenda?

I don't believe it has to be on a follow-up log.

I would make the motion that we be provided with that as one of the statistics of the month before,

the total and the breakdown, if possible.

In the manager's report.

In the manager's report.

Okay.

So there's a motion on the floor for euthanasia numbers to be part of the manager's report.

Is there a second to the motion?

Second.

I'm sorry.

I believe this would be appropriate.

for the follow-up log in this instance because it's making a request for staff to provide specific

information um it is requesting the staff to provide specific information but i think the

body is trying to make it uh more of an action item that it's actually uh addressed and not

lingering on follow-up log for a year. I'm just saying that I feel that the

proper place for this item because it is making a request of staff time for

future agenda items would be would be to go on the follow-up log because it is

making a request for staff to follow up on a specific request of the Commission.

Wouldn't it just be adding to the report though? You're just adding an item to the report?

Correct, but the proper format for making the request to add items to future reports would be through the mechanism of the follow-up log.

That's my only, like that, I think that's the proper place for it to go.

I think what I'm sensing and hearing from the commissioners, like Commissioner Treat, who's been asking for a year that it's not been addressed.

And so the hope, I think, from Commissioner Bagley in making a motion is that it actually gets addressed and not stay on the follow-up long for another year.

Well, I understand. I can't speak to whether or not staff will choose and when to place specific things on the agenda, although that is their prerogative.

And so, excuse me?

Point of order. Go ahead. Sorry.

Thank you.

The proper mechanism for requesting for staff to add that information for future meetings would be through the follow-up log.

there can't be a motion to specifically demand that staff add specific information to specific reports.

Because if I've asked for a year for the same statistics on the follow-up log,

and the follow-up log never gets done,

I don't understand why this is not okay for us to make a motion and vote on it.

And if the city council wants to shoot that down, that's fine.

but I'm tired of this being on this follow-up blog for an entire year almost.

I go off in December.

I'd like it not to be next March when we get these figures.

I think it's chair.

I'm going to allow the motion to continue what staff does with it.

I mean, we don't have, as was explained last month,

the authority to demand something from staff,

but I think it's making a statement that the commissioners actually want this information at some point.

There is a motion and a second on the floor.

So we will be taking a vote.

May I have clarity on the motion itself?

Please.

Yep. So this is not an item, so we're not able to take a vote on it. The follow-up log is an item that we can actually take a vote on to approve the follow-up log. So we can add this to the follow-up log and then approve the follow-up log.

Can we amend the follow-up log?

We can make changes to the follow-up.

If I may say it, it seems that what we're talking about here is making an amendment to this current...

At point of order, we do have a speaker's list, and yes, we can amend the follow-up log to say, Commissioner Treat, can you clarify again for me what it is you would like it to actually reflect in the follow-up log?

and following up on commissioner bagley's point was that if we're getting the figures for the

months before that we have the figures included into that report a month before to include the

euthanasia figures spelled out not just 20 dogs died and i'd like to know some more specifics on

why they were put down. I mean, I understand you're going to put down animals. I just want

more clarity when I get asked by community people saying, you know, I heard there were a whole bunch

of dogs that were put down. I can say, here are the figures. These were sick. These were this. This

was this. So I'd like it to be on the same monthly report that we get for the month before on the

figures that the shelter has.

So you are asking for the follow-up log to be amended to include under euthanasia numbers,

included the euthanasia numbers and specifics in the manager's report in regards to euthanasia.

Correct.

So we will add that when we vote on the follow-up log to the list of amendments that we'd like to make.

so we will make amendments as a batch, so we are in compliance.

Thank you.

Any further discussion on euthanasia numbers?

Commissioner Morris.

So just Commissioner Treat, as you recall, the audit was released in April.

There were details in the audit about euthanasia numbers and the reasons.

The following commission meeting, we actually had the same outline of the reasons for euthanasia.

And so the information was presented.

I actually personally spent three hours going through those types of reasons,

trying to group them to understand what was health-related, what was behavior-related, etc.

So we presented another chart at whatever meeting to try to group those audits, I mean those reasons into something more usable.

So I would maybe refer this commission to that meeting.

I don't remember what the date was, but we definitely did bring euthanasia numbers forward in the same format that was in the audit

it and then in another format to try to group the reasons into something a little more usable.

So I can try to find out what the date was of when that was done and through Ryan share

it with this commission. But we did provide reasons. And I guess I would offer that I

doubt that anything more than what that information is in Chameleon is going to be available for

for what reasons there were such as ill or injured or a bite dog or I don't, I can't

remember what the other reasons were but there was information in the audit that we sort

of also mirrored at a certain level. I think my question to this commission is so what?

Not to say we don't want animal, not to say we want any animal euthanized, but what is

this commission going to do about this? And in my three years, this shelter is too small,

too old. Animals are crowded in there. Animals need more space. We need to support animals

so that they can thrive and be adoptable. And we can look at all the numbers we want,

But until we actually look at the root cause of what's going on here, why do we need to see numbers every month unless we're going to raise the discussion about how to find eight acres and how to raise $50 million for a new shelter and how to raise the rest of the funding to do a move, etc.

You know, looking at the numbers is a discussion point, but I'm still left with what are we doing with these numbers?

What are we doing with how this is?

Okay.

Commissioner Christie?

Okay.

I would like to, if we're adding amendments about this topic,

I do remember the categories that you had drafted,

and I appreciate all your work on that.

I would add that we just ask staff on the follow-up log

if we could maybe have them spend time, if that's something that they're able to do,

and look at maybe some industry standards of those categories and provide not firm definitions that box them in and make things really hard,

but give some kind of clarity to us and to the public about what those categories mean.

Like, what are some examples of a medical untreatable or a medical treatable?

And then there was an unweaned category.

And Mr. Zimmerman acknowledged that there were very likely things being miscategorized due to just staff training and time and understandings of those categories.

So a point well made about what are we going to do with this.

But when we have our data accurately categorized, maybe there is an opportunity short of a $50 million building where we can identify a category of animals that are overrepresented for euthanasia.

That is something that we can do procedurally, like with identifying more foster homes or more grant for that type of animal or more rescue partners for that type of animal.

So that is one way where I could imagine those categories being updated in a way that we can identify some paths forward.

Very good. Commissioner Benedict.

Yes, and this goes back to you asked the so what?

Yeah.

So what about these numbers?

Well, it ties into what I the reason why I made a motion to pull the follow-up log from the calendar.

It goes into why are these dogs being euthanized and we have no there's no SOPs at Front Street.

Have they could they go to rescue?

Could they go to foster?

What about putting a final plea where they can be go somewhere else?

So it's not just about space.

There's nothing that I've seen that tells me that there's some protocol in place to save these animals' lives.

These are healthy, adoptable dogs, right?

So that's what my issue with the so what is.

There's a lot of work that has to be done with coming up with some sort of procedure before we just start killing dogs and cats, too.

but if we don't have a report

then we don't know

manager Hinderman

thanks commissioner Treat for bringing that up

I'm glad you did

I was actually questioning that

I actually put a note on there

that if more details

were

requested

to follow up

this was obviously done before

I kind of inherited the log

as it was. So, you know, I put on there that I presented the stats last time, but I get what

you're asking for is specific breakdowns of reasons for euthanasia. So happy to pull that

together. I'll have to work with our data guy and kind of see how much is involved with that.

I also really would like to revisit the meeting that where it was already kind of generated,

just to see what more is needed than that.

And perhaps I can work with you directly

to make sure that what you're interested in is included.

As far as including it every month,

that's not something I'm able to promise at this time.

I have to kind of look into what is required

to actually pull these numbers.

Is it something that can be automated?

Is it something that the shelter wants to have as an item?

Every time I have to collaborate with other staff on that.

But, yeah, I'm definitely happy to bring that forward, and thanks for your patience on that.

Commissioner Bagley.

I just wanted to maybe respond to Commissioner Morris.

To me, euthanasia numbers and explanation for them is the most crucial educational point you can make to the public.

to justify getting a new shelter, to publicize getting a new shelter,

and more important, to build robust programs.

Now, we have programs, but I think we're lacking in really powerful programs at this shelter.

And one of the ways to educate the public in the importance of those programs,

and you can name whatever program you want, to make it stronger and make it more effective,

is for the public to understand the numbers and the reasons

and what's being generated from the community by a lack of education, a lack of humane treatment,

and a lack of spay and neuter being the most important program.

So that's why.

And I don't want to go into some details of education that I've experienced.

Getting bad things out there, it's like a volcano.

the the overflow of how you affect and create really good things by showing

people the bad and that's the so what for me and just a time check we should

since we do have a few other things on the log and other items on the agenda

So if we can keep our comments short, Commissioner Verga.

Ditto, Ms. Begley and Ms. Benedict.

Thank you.

And I think to presume that so what and that there's nothing that can be done, even though we see these numbers, is a really dangerous thing to do.

And for the reasons that Ms. Benedict and Ms. Bagley brought up, we don't need a new shelter in order to try to reduce the number of animals euthanized.

So there's a lot more I could say about that, but I think that's a very important point to make.

There are many more solutions that can be utilized to save lives.

Thank you.

Commissioner Hayes.

Point of personal privilege, I do have to head out in 15 minutes, so I was wondering if I could make a motion to jump to at-risk dogs, which is something I'm interested in amending or looking at, and then you all can go back to the order in which they're listed in.

Unless someone is yet to say.

Okay.

So the at-risk dogs.

Yeah, so I just wanted to bring up.

I know it says here the status will, it says the shelter community communications team is reaching out to the county shelter to get a better understanding and overview of the effectiveness of their final plea program.

I brought this up last year in a meeting about how Bradshaw is having great success.

Now, while I don't know the stats of the outcomes of the dogs in which are being saved through their county run page for final plea, they just moved to their own personal.

As of January 1 of this year, they just moved to their own personal Instagram, Bradshaw Animal Shelter, to put out final pleas of their own dogs.

It is, every post follows the same standard format.

It is a bio of the dog, the intake of the dog, the email at the end of the post for the Sac County Rescue Partners email.

They've been doing that since January.

Every single dog that's gotten posted has gotten rescued, has gotten pulled.

that is available through Instagram to the public.

I believe it goes on their Facebook as well.

But now since they've moved this to their Instagram page,

it's basically the same cute photo

that you'd post to advertise the dog anywhere else,

but it's basically them saying

this dog needs out by this time.

So I would love if that could be something

that the shelter communications team

can look into and do on their Instagram.

Commissioner Verga. I absolutely agree with you Julia thank you for bringing

that up and we when we had AB 2265 my nonprofit had AB 2265 which was a

legislation that required notification of euthanasia we did a study and I've got

details here about the cost savings that you have by posting a simple

notification and first of all it's a chameleon system that I'm sure you could

discuss Ryan how easy that is to put in one field that populates for instance isn't it's 24 hour pet

watch it's a chameleon software it's printing out a piece of paper and putting it on a shelter

the cost savings between doing this notification and euthanizing an animal let's talk about the

staff time to euthanize an animal okay and I know this is going to be agendized item but just briefly

It's two staff, okay?

And then there's the euthanasia drugs.

And it's the emotional toll on those staff members, okay,

that have to euthanize oftentimes healthy adoptable animals.

And then you have the cost to render their body.

And so if you do a cost-benefit analysis and the life-saving analysis,

you know, it just doesn't make sense not to try to do all you can

to be transparent about life savings.

So I would definitely push this.

And the other thing that I'd like to make a motion here

is that this is an urgent item.

This is something that should be heard on the next agenda.

Here it says staff will determine

what month this presentation can be added.

I would like to say, first of all,

we don't need Bradshaw to come.

We don't need to know anything more about it.

It's fairly common sense.

You know, we can discuss on an agenda item.

You can bring up what are your costs

associated with this and we can discuss it.

So I would like to move that this be placed on an urgent item that'd be placed on the

next agenda next month, if possible.

I will make note of that for our revision to the log.

Thank you.

Commissioner Benedict.

Excuse me.

Do you mind if I jump in quickly?

So just we're still on amendments to the follow-up log.

So we should keep our comment and our discussion to specific recommended amendments to the follow-up log and then have a discussion of discussion items.

So let's keep it to amendments, please.

Well, thank you, Commissioner Hayes and Berga.

You kind of took the words out of my mouth.

my reason for wanting this pulled

was about this final plea

and making it urgent also.

And partly the reason is because

of what Commissioner Hayes brought up.

It goes to the so what, what can we do?

And that's it right there.

That's one thing.

So also I wanted to point out

that I noticed it says a lot on this

and like everywhere throughout the follow-up log

it says dogs.

And we have to remember that this is also for cats

and other animals too.

So we should be inclusive in that.

And I don't know, do I need to add,

give you the verbiage that we'd like to put on here

or that I'd like to put on for the, is that what?

If it's an amendment to what's being stated here,

then yes, please.

So I think we should then,

for the verbiage here,

instead of the staff will determine

what month this presentation can be added, et cetera.

We should put it as this.

We propose this item to be added to the discussion

of implementing standardized final plea notification protocols

at Front Street Animal Shelter

to increase life-saving outcomes for animals

scheduled for use in Asia.

And a lot of...

Oh, go ahead.

and take off the presentation.

Oh, and take off the presentation, yeah.

And also, you know, the rationale behind that

already was covered by Commissioner Virga,

you know, as far as, you know,

it will increase its last minute adoptions and rescues

and reduces staff time spent on euthanasia

and the emotional trauma and all that,

euthanizing healthy adoptable animals.

So when you say take off the presentation,

you mean strike the county shelter presentation?

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Christie.

Thanks.

I will try and make this as brief as possible.

When I read this follow up log item,

it seems very focused on the outreach for these dogs,

which I do not dispute is a significant topic

that we should cover.

I'm curious after I've been spending some time

with some continuing education for myself

about capacity for care and learning some of the offerings.

I know that Coret is not popular for everyone, that's okay.

But cumulations of data can be useful

and policies and procedures that are written

as templates can be useful.

And I've recently seen a policy for at-risk dogs

come out of LA County shelters.

It could be mistaken.

It could be more of a small jurisdiction than that.

But they produced, in working with Coret or a similar program, a lengthy, you know, how do we handle at-risk dogs in our facility.

And it was for transparency with the community.

It looked like it took a lot of their time and energy to create this.

It explained methodologies, resources, how animals were determined for certain categories,

and then what steps those animals moved through.

I acknowledge that that is a significant ask of staff,

and I don't think that's something that was going to be achieved quickly,

but I think that would be something that a goal that we could move towards potentially,

especially since a template exists and there are organizations to help us attain something like that.

If we want to have more transparency in this area, that might be a way to approach it.

So are you suggesting to add on to the follow-up log that this commission review that policy as part of our discussion of final plea dogs?

I don't know that I can request the commission review something, but if we're able to pass things out like it seems we are able to do, that might be what I'm suggesting, yes.

Okay.

Commissioner Verga?

I forgot what I was going to say now.

Well, I guess what I'd say for starters is as far as discussing capacity of care or any other trends,

I think one of the things that's, and we'll segue into something else,

that needs to be really brought up and paid attention to is whether or not those trends or policies are legal.

And if they follow the law.

and because is there something to this log that you would amend part of that

well one of the things that I wanted to bring up about this log in general and

I don't know if this is appropriate time maybe to ask the attorney but there's a

lot of language in here and all of these follow-up logs staff will determine

what month it will be added the shelter communications team will be reaching out

to county shelter and again a lot of its staff would decide that I don't know on

the status if a narrative of that kind of discussion is appropriate.

It's not what used to be in the log before.

For instance, it used to say staff will work with the chair to determine what items placed

on the agenda.

Staff will work with the chair.

This is just in November.

So it seems to me that there's a lot of language in the status that I don't understand why

it's there.

Yeah.

I did not write the follow-up log,

but I believe that that verbiage may have been added, you know,

as a way to reflect the ongoing discussions that we've been having

and the clarifications regarding the agenda setting power of staff

vis-a-vis the commission.

Okay.

Other items on the follow-up log that people want to amend

what is stated on the follow-up log?

Mr. Berger, is that old?

No.

Oh.

I would also on, I'm going to go ahead here.

Well, actually, I'm going to go back.

As far as the third item on the animal, it says animal cruelty presentation.

I'd like to amend that to reflect that that would be a presentation given on current law, both state and local.

And that is a presentation that Commissioner Bagley Franzoya requested to do.

And that it be added as an urgent item, and maybe that's a vote later.

And that also take into consideration, and what I did supply with all the members today,

we just received a copy of it today is a current cease and desist order that was just delivered

today which is a legal document requesting that front street stop we cannot speak on things that

are okay oh active litigation okay i i would like to i don't know if i can make a motion then

that i would like the language to be reflective of it being a presentation on current law both

local and state law by Commissioner Bagley as soon as possible.

That will be in the batch corrections.

Duly noted.

Commissioner Bagley.

Yes.

She beat me to it, but I did want to add that the reason it is so important at this point

is it's obvious that the city wants to go through and hire a vendor to come up with the SOPs.

and my concern has always been

that there may be policies that violate state law

and it was clear to me a couple months ago

when a presentation was made before the commission

that there is a lack of understanding

on the obligations of shelters

and not only the local codes but the state laws

and so I think it's very important

particularly if we intend to question

or have a question and answer with that vendor, whichever vendor of the three is chosen.

So I want you to bear that in mind.

These laws are very important.

You want to make sure that you're running the shelter and you're making recommendations to counsel

that don't violate the law and you have a good understanding of state law on sheltering.

And that's what I want to add.

And yes, I want that correction.

I said it last month.

I said that the cruelty presentation which I routinely present is far too

graphic far too dark but apparently did not get corrected and it's the sheltering

laws and the obligations of shelters both in state law and local codes that I

would like to present and it will take some time but the PowerPoint will just

be the statutes I can promise you that

Other items on the log that need corrections?

Commissioner Berga.

I'm happy to let Kelly go next.

But okay, so Ms. Bagley brought up the SOPs.

And the item on a follow-up log,

we've discussed, and it was on here before,

that the commissioners would like a role in the creation of the SOPS. Now I

understand that it's gone out for a request for proposal but what I would

like to recommend is that there is an ad hoc committee that is created to work

with. That I'm sorry that we can make motions for those kinds of things

at a different time but at this time we need to focus on strictly language

amendments to the okay okay okay okay so then what I would like to amend this to

say let's see well it says request to author policies and procedures sucks I

guess I would like to amend it to say and I don't know if this is appropriate

that the animal well-being commission be able to work in consultation with

whatever contractor is hired to do the SOPS so that we can have input and

collaborate on those SOPS. Okay duly noted added to the list of

corrections. Any other items on the follow-up log that people want amended? Commissioner Benedict.

Yeah, we actually, I think we just jumped all the way down the follow-up. Yeah, we missed a bunch

of things here, but back to the Commissioner Bagley's item where the animal cruelty, it says

now but it's supposed to be about animal law. That one I would like to make a motion to

move it to an urgent. It says staff will determine when that presentation can be added but in

light of some concerns that there may be some laws being broken and that they're you know

We need to look at that a lot sooner than later, I think.

And maybe we would even have that at the end of the, can we have that for discussion at

the end too?

Possibly?

I don't know.

I'm asking.

Manager Hinderman.

I just wanted to confirm Vice Chair Bagley, last time I know you had mentioned that you

You felt it was too graphic, but I wasn't sure if you wanted it, the cruelty presentation removed.

So just to confirm you want that removed and replaced with what was mentioned.

Commissioner Berger.

This is in regards to additional log items that we'd like clarification on.

So on the second page, the top item, it says spay-neuter policy for second impounds.

I think that should read redemption policies in general.

And this is something that I know Ms. Bagley has done a lot of research on.

And it's actually in current law ordinance that she's very familiar with.

So I think it would be ideal that she does her own presentation.

There's no staff time or energy.

She's very well versed on this and can talk about what the law is on that.

And I think that's an urgent matter because there's a lot of animals that are being returned unaltered and without any fee collection.

And I think it's important to note that the fees that are collected, they're there for a reason, and they go to the spay and neuter voucher program.

And if they're waived, waived, waived over and over again and animals are returned back to their owners unaltered over and over again, that's a problem.

Thank you.

So you're asking for the correction instead of requested a presentation, you're requesting that it be changed to Commissioner Bagley makes the presentation regarding redemption policy.

Correct. And that this is an urgent item.

Yes.

And it's urgent.

And that the title of it is redemption.

Redemption policy?

Yes.

Okay.

Very good.

Any other items on the log that need correction?

Commissioner Bagley.

All right.

Regarding that same item, what I mentioned last month,

and I am still seeking it today, is for a discussion amongst commissioners on how we can incentivize spay and neuter on the first redemption.

And it has to do with the fees that are being ignored currently, in my understanding, but it might be just a cursory understanding.

Yes, there probably should be some know-how on the law, and it doesn't require a presentation.

I've passed out the city code to all of you last month,

and I will refer you to the code section

as to what the city requires on the first and second redemption.

The second redemption requires spay and neuter

and the fees that are attached to it.

The first one does not.

I think that as a body, we could come up and brainstorm

for some incentivizing to get people to spay and neuter

on the first time they come in and return there to have their animal returned dog specifically

that's what I asked for I don't mind presenting or referring you over into the code sections I'll

bring those copies of the city codes again for those of you didn't get a copy and we'll take

it from there but this is just a discussion it's really not a presentation and I know the city

I'm sure staff will want to chime in as well so I don't think it requires a presentation I

I think you can take that off.

The presentation I want to do has to do with shelter law, and this should just be a discussion.

No presentation.

It's so much easier to get things agendized that don't require a staff presentation.

Commissioner Berger.

I would agree, and I can just say on that topic that after looking into this redemption policies of Front Street a little bit

with public records requests and even just online,

it was clear that redemption fees

are not being honored, I guess I should say.

They're not being collected

and that animals are not being spayed and neutered

as the ordinance requires.

It's fairly easy to find

and I think it will be fairly easy

for us to have a discussion about that.

Okay.

Any other corrections on the follow-up log?

Commissioner Verga.

So I don't know if it's a correction.

It's dog foster guidelines.

So that was a follow-up log.

I do think it would be important to make sure that we're clear and that there is something,

I guess this is what I would ask for a staff report on, written report or written,

yeah, I guess it would be a report from Front Street as to what your foster policies are.

because it says you know there's a long in the status there's a lot of information there but

you know the the problem is right now as it relates to foster guidelines that concerns me

is that animals that are euthanized,

they're not always on the euthanasia list.

And right now, my understanding is there's not even

a euthanasia list going out for cats at all, a red list.

And so fostering is really important to be allowed

for animals because there's no assurances

that they won't be euthanized.

So I would like written policies.

So we will make note of that.

So have you made note of all the changes

or should I go over them?

Carpal tunnel by the end of the night.

No, I've made note.

Okay, excellent.

Okay, I just wanted to mention,

I just wanted to mention I did realize,

Commissioner Bell reminded me,

I did miss one from last meeting as well,

which was an overview of how the Kitten Connection Program works.

So I will be adding that between this meeting and when the follow-up log is due.

Throwing that out there.

Commissioner Benedict.

Mine is just, I noticed also that this wasn't my request,

but it was from Commissioner Berrigan.

had requested an interim,

that the interim improvements bid

or what you guys were discussing for that

should be added to this follow-up log too

and I don't see it on there.

Oh, yes, correct.

Yeah, I did make note of that myself

that we had Commissioner Berrigan asked

to revisit the site improvements

and funding usage as a follow-up log item.

And then Commissioner Benedict had also requested

policy and procedure changes be added to the follow-up log

as if anything comes in, any changes,

that they come to the commission for review and public comment.

Commissioner Bagley.

I just had a question and I understand the reason behind it,

all the annotation on the narrative here that Ryan provided.

I understand why he felt he wanted to do that this month.

I just had a question.

It's my understanding that, okay, fostering of healthy dogs is still taking place,

but they're not spayed or neutered before they go out.

Is that correct?

Yeah, they can go out unaltered.

Okay.

Okay.

So you no longer do foster to adopt, and I understand that perfectly.

They're in the wind, okay?

And it's very difficult to get them back,

and you're just putting intact animals out into the community.

How is this any different?

How would you like to amend the log for this?

I'm not.

That's what I said.

It was a question because he provided all this annotation.

I guess that would be a good part of the discussion when it makes it to the agenda.

Yes, it would.

Well, is it making it to the agenda?

Dog foster guidelines?

At some point.

Commissioner Verga?

Cancel.

Senator Hinderman?

So as far as the dog foster guidelines, you know, we had to kind of choose.

this was actually going I had this originally as a discussion item for this

meeting but again we had to pare down the the agenda unfortunately so we did

decide to make it a follow-up log item I think clearly there's a lot of things

we want to discuss so I think it's it's deciding how I have a priority

everything sounds it seems like a priority right so so what I can do for

now is add my response to that question into the follow-up log written and then

if you know we get to the point where we say hey this this is now our top item

to really get into the weeds of the details of the foster program

or maybe if I'm able to provide a written, you know,

a thorough written description of how the whole thing works,

then I could do that.

But I think for now, between this month and next month,

what I'll commit to is providing a written response

to what you just brought up.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Verga.

I did just want to clarify in the final plea,

and I think we already discussed it,

that that applied to both cats and dogs.

The final plea.

Any further amendments?

Commissioner Barian.

Maybe I'll regret saying this, but in response to this idea,

I did also hear a lot of everything seems like a priority.

So did I, just a point of clarification,

are you suggesting making sure that at the next meeting

we see that it's been adjusted

and then we would have a discussion about prioritization

or would it be a better use of time now to quickly just,

okay, all the amendments have been made and everybody,

okay, item one, rank from one to five so that you have some data

because I just feel like I'm trying to get us to a more efficient place here soon.

I think that might fall in Manager Henderman's discussion later.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Any other amendments?

Is there a motion to approve the follow-up log as amended?

So moved.

Second.

I'll second.

All right.

We'll try the verbal vote again.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

the abstentions.

Thank you.

Motion passes.

Thank you.

Motion passes.

Thank you all for that robust discussion about the follow-up log.

All right, moving on to our actual agenda.

It is fairly light tonight on the discussion calendar.

First up, we have Manager Hinderman's monthly report.

there it is i was going to be here um all right well we did it everyone thank you um thank you

everyone also for hanging in there i'm glad to know that i'm not the only one who's struggling

a bit with the formalities and the um the the nuances and the procedures of things uh it's a

uh very different so um thanks for hanging in there chair mcdoll i think you're doing a great

job for your first night so thank you. All right. Okay so before I even get into the stats I just

wanted to give an update on the strep zoo situation so hopefully everyone received my emails with

updates kind of as we went. I'm happy to say that we are considering that we're past the strep zoo

risk so we will be reopening our dog intake as normal starting tomorrow so that's been posted

to our social media it should be on our website and 311 has been informed as well we are just to

keep you apprised we are planning to continue to offer for finders of pets to become official

foster parents with us that would entail getting vaccines receiving medical support all the things

that our normal fosters would just as an additional measure to attempt to you know

keep space and keep on this path of, you know, trying to get rid of all of the, you know,

the various diseases and germs that have been really prevalent in the shelter this year.

As far as stats, which are going to be heavily affected by the changes in intake for the past

two weeks, animals in shelter, dogs 73, cats 39, other animals nine, animals in foster,

at dog 63, cats 21, and animals in foster to adopt.

We still have that single darn dog.

And then total animals in care is 205.

I did put in here that because things are going to be changing

with the current statistics,

and now we're going to be looking a month back,

this is going to be, oh, no, it's bigger up there,

that I wanted to just give a brief, very abbreviated tutorial

of how to find these stats and a couple things to look out for.

So if you do want updated stats, you can access them at any time.

So if you go to FrontStreetShelter.org, click About Front Street, and then click Shelter Statistics,

it's going to take you to Power BI, which is sort of a data display software.

And there's two tricky things about this.

One is on the bottom.

You'll see where I highlighted.

There's these tiny little arrows that are very easy to miss,

and those allow you to move between either looking at years or you can look at,

if you keep clicking, you can look at individual months,

and you can just see different breakdowns of data.

The other thing to be careful of is you'll see there

in the upper right-hand corner

how it says multiple selections.

If you want to look at the current month,

what's going to happen is if you click on it,

it's for whatever reason going to automatically select

January of like the previous year.

But you won't see that unless you scroll down.

So if you just click February, for example,

those stats are actually combined like January 2025

with February 2026.

So just be aware of that.

Make sure that only the month that you're interested

in is checked but that's how you can access kind of the big picture stats at any time that doesn't

have the same breakdown that you're looking for commissioner treat but that is how to do that

as far as our general updates staffing updates we have interviews for two animal care officers

scheduled to just pass background the backgrounds process and interviews being scheduled for

a registered veterinary technician vacancy.

Interviews are being scheduled also for four kennel technician vacancies.

And then I have one CSR vacancy that I'm eagerly waiting on a hiring freeze exemption for.

The city, for the animal care services manager position, the city is working with a recruiting

firm.

It's going to be a national recruitment.

And so that's kind of been a process that I don't understand super thoroughly, but my

understanding is that the position should post the city website very soon this week or next

we had the first budget meeting with the city manager and the finance department

and i put it in the follow-up blog but we did ask for a 500 000 budget augmentation

for more animal balance clinics and then i already kind of gave the strepzo update

let's see all right and i figured that since i keep um giving these reports i might as well

introduce myself a little bit um for those of you who haven't i haven't gotten to know over the years

um and kind of to state that i know that many of you expressed that you would you know prefer to

have the the shelter manager in my spot um but it will continue to be me for the foreseeable future

it is not uncommon for non-director level staff to attend these sorts of commissions in the city

I know I had you know a rough first couple months especially since the items that came up were

not directly in my purview you know the site improvements and and you know the audit and

things like that so I've tried my best to to learn more about that and to continue to learn

more about the specialized areas whether it's dog foster or the other areas that you're interested

in so that I can speak to them more immediately rather than having to follow up. That said,

for a lot of the items that you're interested in bringing up, whether it's intake guidelines or

what are our return to owner protocols or marketing related things, I probably will be

the staff member that's most specialized in a lot of those things and perhaps best able to speak on

them. So I'm hoping that I can be useful to the commission on those items. And then because I

work with the media very regularly, I'm very used to follow up. I'm used to being able to say,

you know what, to be honest, I don't know.

Let me go talk to the animal control team

and get accurate information and get back to you.

And so I'm hoping to bring that skill set to this commission

with a follow-up log or with presentations or whatever.

I sent an email to everyone, but I did want to just apologize again

that the agenda was a bit light this month.

It really was my goal to bring some of those higher priority items

for the commission.

but you know in the interest of trying to cut down on the time and and then the dog uh ordinance

getting kind of pulled very last minute um that kind of left it uh with just my items so um i

think it'll be beneficial for the group i do want to you know just reiterate that um you know that

wasn't done um in any bad faith and that i really am looking forward to discussing some of these

these high priority items with everyone that said what i wanted to bring up i guess i'll just bring

it up now is I wanted to ask you know the city attorney or the clerk staff for the obviously

there are a lot of priorities and I also want to make sure that everyone on the commission's

interests you know not everyone is as vocal as everyone else gets recognized would there be

any brown act violations or any issues if I were to send out let's say an anonymous poll that had

a list of all the agenda items that people were interested in discussing so that commissioners

could each vote on, hey, what is my top priority item,

so that we could then take that into consideration

for future agenda items.

Yeah, I would have to look into that method specifically,

but as long as we're also making sure

that those kinds of communications,

we avoid kind of CCing everyone

in the same email communication

to cut down on the danger of someone maybe replying all

and then having some sort of Brown Act violation

stemming from that.

But as to that specific idea,

I would need to look a little bit more

and get a little more detail

and how that would be set up first.

But we can definitely talk about

what the best way to get that done would be

because I think that would be a valuable exercise.

Okay.

Yeah, and let me know what your feedback is

if you guys like that idea or not.

But that could be an equitable way to go about it.

And then just a very brief background,

not to make it about me,

but I've been at the shelter 10 years.

I'll hit 11 years in July.

And I started, I was actually a marketing consultant.

I was going to college.

I was going to be a high school English teacher.

And between graduating and the credential program, you know, I love animals.

So I started volunteering at the county shelter.

And they knew I did marketing and stuff.

So they said, hey, would you help with our social media?

And that's really when I kind of fell in love not only with the marketing side of animal sheltering,

but just with the mission in general.

And so, you know, Front Street offered me a position.

I left my much higher paying marketing job.

I told my family, you know, this is what I want to do.

They said, there's no career in animal welfare.

I said, I don't care.

I'm 23 and idealistic, but it worked out.

And eventually I was offered, after several years, a city position as public information coordinator,

just focusing on marketing and fundraising, those types of things.

And then for the past five years, my official title is communications and customer service manager.

So I spend most of my time overseeing the customer service team, the administrative side of the shelter,

and a lot of other special projects and programs in addition to, you know,

kind of overseeing our general marketing strategy, fundraising,

and now being involved with the commission, which is a fun new project.

And so I just tell that story because, you know,

just to tell all of you that, you know, I got into this for the right reasons.

I wanted to make an impact, and I'm still in it for the right reasons.

And I know that's why all of you are here as well.

So thank you for having me and for your patience with me as I learn the process.

Commissioner Benedict.

Yeah, am I allowed to ask a couple questions regarding the report?

Yes.

Okay.

I just, I wasn't sure, how many days was the shelter closed for intake for this strep zoo?

it would have been from it was two Wednesdays ago so when was that is that the fourth I think it was

the no that would have been no that would have been the 28th and then it no yeah 28th and then

we were originally considering lifting the restrictions on the fourth but our veterinary

team decided it would be best to extend to today so I believe that'd be 14 days

14 days okay and then um so i'm just curious as to how you know i'm bringing an animal to the

shelter and you're you're not have you're not intaking any animals what what are what are people

told like how do you handle that that's how we've handled it in the past two weeks yeah so um uh

basically several options so one was that they could foster the pet through our shelter right

So kind of similar to what I talked about earlier,

we would provide vaccine support,

get it in the system, get it on the website

so the owner could find it on the website,

ask them to attempt to reach out to find the owner

while they had the animal in their care

and they could do these extra steps.

And they should have also been provided a handout

with a comprehensive list of tips to find the owner.

The other option is, hey,

you can find a friend or family member

who would be willing to do this.

We also provided like a social media template

for people to say, hey, I have this pet,

the shelter's going through this situation.

They will provide all this care.

All you have to do is provide a safe space until this date.

So that was a second option.

And a third option, if they weren't willing to do,

well, actually, I guess there's four.

A third option was, hey, can you hold on to this pet

very short-term while we find one of our

already registered foster parents to meet with you

or meet at the shelter to get this pet?

And lastly, if they weren't willing to do any of that,

we made our reception building basically like a clean building

where we would take the animals in temporarily

until we could get one of our registered foster parents

to come and pick it up.

And luckily a lot of our foster parents

were very on board with this.

People really respond to emergencies,

especially animal emergencies,

with a great deal of enthusiasm.

And then we did have a partner who asked

to remain anonymous who we were able to send

our small dogs to for a lot of the time

that we were doing that, yeah.

Thank you.

And point of order, I'm sorry,

I forgot to ask if we have speakers,

public speakers on this item.

I have one speaker on this item, Elise Mize.

A couple things.

That anonymous organization told me who they were.

They stepped up during and that was great.

I also am a big proponent of there needs to be some type of regional

emergency plan so that it is known going forward when things like this happen

because Elk Grove shelter is also shut down for intake and then I want to jump

over to the euthanasia for January I know there was a lot of talk about needing IT

to get involved well I spent two minutes in the audience looking at the open data

portal there are 43 behavioral euthanasias seven biters two dangerous

dogs, nine medically contagious, two medically treatable, 44 medically untreatable, one owner

requested, two potentially dangerous dogs, and five physical conditions. It took two minutes.

Thank you. That's all the speakers I have for this item.

All right, moving back to our commissioners. Commissioner Christie.

Thank you, Ryan, for all of that and for hearing your background after having you up here all

these months, it was nice to hear more from you.

I just wanted to acknowledge the improvement

that I've seen in the communication from staff

in the last month, but even a little bit before that.

I really appreciate that, and particularly

when there is a zoonotic disease outbreak

and the proactive, clear info that you shared

with commissioners about what Streb Zoo is,

what are some of the best standards to follow?

That was super helpful.

And I wanted to ask if it's possible for staff

or is it too much to ask that we get continued updates

for other outbreaks or I don't know how common

pan-luc and parvovirus outbreaks are at the shelter,

but things that affect intake certainly would be helpful

for us to kind of keep tabs on

and to just kind of get those real time updates

on openings and closings of animal intake.

Yeah, I think certainly for things like that

that are more major, sure, you probably don't need to know

about every case of Giardia we have,

but yeah, for things that are affecting intake

or the public or you may hear feedback

or if it's newsworthy in any way,

typically in situations like that,

we'll also notify council.

is typically the first group will notify.

In this case, you know, council found out first

and then the commission,

and then we were able to kind of do, you know,

further public communications.

So, yeah, we'll keep you apprised.

Commissioner Bagley.

Yeah, I just had a question.

Ryan, I know that some small dogs

were transferred to another shelter

and some large dogs were transferred to another shelter.

And do those dogs ever come back

or do they stay with those shelter?

is there a legal transfer then to those shelters that helped you out?

You know, I'd have to follow up.

I mean, I could put that on the follow-up log if you'd like.

Because originally when I spoke with them,

there wasn't a promise to keep them and return them or to adopt them out.

There was, they wanted to retain the option of bringing them back to us.

I'm not aware that that's happened,

but I can find out if that's something you'd like to.

Well, it goes into another question because you had some live release numbers on here and you had some transfer numbers.

And so I've always wondered if you are giving dogs or transferring dogs to other shelters locally or out of state even,

if you do follow up to determine the disposition of those dogs, I would venture you do not because it sounds very labor intensive.

But do you consider those and put those in your library lease stats because you transferred them and transferred legal ownership to those recipients?

Like 40 dogs or, I mean, that's what you've done in the past.

If a dog has a live outcome, including transfer to another organization, then it would be included in statistics.

and that's without the follow-up of determining from that recipient or

destination shelter whether or not it was put down whatever the disposition

was whether it was actually adopted you would consider it live release right if

it was live release from our shelter we would say that you know as part of our

live release rate but yeah that would that'd be quite a process it'd be

interesting but yeah not something that we do currently just another reason why

my live release numbers always seem disingenuous.

Yeah, and I do want to point out that those numbers up there

were not the current February numbers.

That was, like I said, it was the January of last year combined with February.

So, yeah, my bad on that.

But then I realized, like, I should probably tell the commission

so they don't make the same mistake I just did if they're looking.

So, yeah.

Okay.

Commissioner Verga.

I just wanted to say that Ryan did the best social media posts ever,

and I wish you could still do some of them.

They were nutty and crazy.

and wonderful, and I think it helped a lot of animals.

So I think you should consider reprising your role.

What costume was I wearing?

You had a lot of little Superman costumes,

and, you know, they were great.

I do want to give our new public information coordinator,

Andrea Havreland, a shout-out.

She conceptualized the idea in partnership

with a number of other staff to do the Thanksgiving idea,

where we gave Thanksgiving dinner to all the pets,

in the staff seat overnight.

That received, I think it was 24,000 likes on Instagram

and I think 22,000 on Facebook.

So give her a shout out for that.

And I just wanted to say to Samantha Christie,

I think that's a great idea to do updates

to commissioners on any kind of,

like if it's Parvo or Panluke with the cats

and all of that makes a big difference.

And then I did wonder about if Front Street does have a plan in place when these things happen.

You know, like I just wondered if you reach out to Bradshaw.

I know, you know, SBCA was taking some of your animals.

But to all the other shelters in the area, are they apprised and made aware of, you know, what the circumstances are?

Because I would imagine there was a lot of impact that they had for that.

You know, we don't have, like, a formal either, like, emergency plan or, like, a formal, you know, communications, like, when something goes wrong.

Do we have, like, a group, you know, of directors?

You know, that's a good idea because they should know because it's also possible that if there's a trend here, there could be a trend elsewhere.

So I think that's a strong idea.

I think in terms of asking other shelters, we're just so used to everyone being so full that we don't even consider that an option.

But as far as sort of an emergency plan or something like that for these sorts of things, it's a good idea.

I mean, we're open to collaboration for sure.

And I do have another comment.

I think your idea is sound, whether there could be a poll or something like that for commissioners if we think that agenda items are valuable.

But I think the idea of this commission making a motion and voting as to what should be urgent items is more appropriate because then we as a body are publicly interacting and taking a vote.

So that would be my two cents there regarding that.

just trying to think about logistics of that now because obviously the fastest is to click this is

what i want um as opposed to like okay voting how we would score that like who whose is this top

item you know what i mean like if you want to think about the logistics of how that would work

and how we could do it quickly and efficiently then that certainly could be an option i would

say I mean the way I would see this here my role would be that I could make a

motion and I think it would be in the follow-up log commissioners comments

that I would make a motion that follow-up log item final plea be advanced to the

next agenda and there could be that could be a motion and a second and a

vote is that correct chair or would that make sense I would have to look at

at the commission handbook on that.

Gotcha.

But there is definitely information in there

about motions, yes.

Speaker Bennett, or Commissioner Benedict.

Hi, yeah, my, on this, on the log

that we were just talking about,

my concern might be that we're,

isn't that kind of a violation of the Brown Act?

I'm not sure because if we're communicating and making votes outside of the public that the public doesn't know about,

would that be a violation as opposed to doing it during a commission meeting?

That was kind of my concern and why I hesitated to provide live legal advice right now.

I would need to look a little bit more into the specific case law about similar facts in other cases

where the Brown Act has been litigated or discussed in the courts to see about that specific idea.

but we are trying to avoid a situation where we have an unpublic meeting that violates the Brown Act.

And I think the idea sounds potentially very helpful,

but it could also sound like there's a potential for a daisy chain meeting to be established potentially with that idea.

So I just need a little more time to look into that.

Commissioner Treat.

Ryan, I'd like to thank you very much.

I've gotten more communication from you in the last two months than I have like the whole year.

And it's always very helpful.

What I would like to suggest is that many of the items on the follow-up blog I brought,

and I don't have a problem sitting down and going through what order I think the ones I asked for should be in.

Some don't need to be immediate.

You know, some are other things I'd just like us to discuss at some point.

But I'm willing to do that for the next meeting to let you know my priority on the ones that I asked for,

because they aren't at the top.

I mean, euthanasia I cared about, but there are other things on that follow-up blog that could wait two, three meetings

for us to actually have some conversation.

But I appreciate the fact that we have had as many conversations today as we have on the issues that we really care about,

because we don't usually be able to get to that, and that's a big deal.

Thank you.

And then just a time check.

We have 20 minutes left for tonight.

We still have another agenda item as well as other things open.

But Commissioner Verga.

Just one last question, Ryan, regarding that you're open again.

Are you going to be making a public announcement on your Facebook and on your website

and so that the public knows that you're open again for intake?

Yeah, it should have been posted both of those places like right after 5.

So we haven't been on our phones.

Cleveland so engaged but yeah it should be on there next time you check. Thank you.

All right seeing no speakers let's move on to our next agenda item

uh animal care goals for communication

I guess I should also say do we want to just so we don't have to stop the presentation

as much as I was really wanting to keep this in two hours or do we want to sort of get since

Just reading close, motion to extend.

So this doesn't need to get pushed to a different day.

How long do you have those meetings?

It's probably close to 30 minutes.

And then we're gonna wanna discuss.

Hi.

Because I think, you know, we've been hearing a lot,

we've been hearing a lot about how important it is

within the time frame.

So Commissioner Berger,

you're moving to table the presentation?

Are you tabling it for any specific amount of time?

I would just say to table it

and tell it a better time

when there's more time in the agenda to hear it.

Okay.

Future date.

I would table it to a future date.

I'm being told as chair I can move the presentation to a future meeting.

So you could waive the presentation itself and CAO, correct me if I'm wrong.

You can waive the presentation itself and you can discuss the item without the PowerPoint.

you can also move to move this item to a future agenda date uncertain or date certain.

So here the presentation at a future date.

Okay.

So you're moving to table this agenda item for this meeting to a future date.

Correct.

Is there a second to that?

Second that.

Okay.

So, well, first, the motion maker can motivate their motion.

Well, I think that we haven't heard public comments, not on the agenda, and I think it's

very important to interact with the public.

and we haven't heard first of all we we have none of our our items that are on

the follow-up log that the Commission has forwarded are on this agenda and so

at a minimum I think we should be able to hear from the commissioners on public

items not on the agenda and I think that we should be able to hear from the

public and I think we should be able to we need to be able to stay in our

timeframe and not go past 730 anymore as we have been because we hear that

that's why there's been a problem so that that is what I would recommend and

I think if Ryan's taken all this time and energy to do this presentation that

we should make sure that he has enough time to do it without going past 730.

Okay. Speakers, Commissioner Benedict.

Yes, and we do have a lot more business to talk about from the follow-up log as far as prioritizing.

Didn't we have some discussion that we had to do, too, in 15 minutes?

We don't have a lot of time, and I'd hate to cut him short.

But also, I have a question, too, because this item was not on the follow-up log to be moved over.

Commissioner Morris?

I was wondering about the idea of, and I'm looking at the clerk, if we could request

if this is put over to a specific meeting, like to the next meeting so it doesn't hang

out there.

You can make a friendly amendment.

That's the friendly amendment I was going to offer if Commissioner Virga sees that

as friendly, to move it to a specific meeting, for example, the March meeting.

And then I have another point of order sort of question,

which is can we extend this meeting for just, say, 15 minutes?

You can extend it for one hour.

You can only extend it for an hour.

Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

So that's questions.

Okay, so there's an amendment to the motion on the floor.

Is there a second to amending it to state specifically next month?

If Commissioner Virga accepts the friendly amendment.

What I would like to say in that regard is I think the business that has to do with actually saving animals' lives.

And the follow-up logs and agenda items that have been advanced by commissioners should be a priority.

I think it's been made clear that, you know, that our voices, you know, aren't really going to be considered for the agenda item.

That's what's been made clear, and that's clear on this agenda.

So for myself, I'm not sure how that works, but I would object to it being placed at a specific time because I believe that the follow-up log items that we already have been, like for instance, have been on the log for a long time should take precedence.

Commissioner Berrigan?

I agree with everything you just said, Commissioner Berger, and for all the same reasons.

But at the same time, what I saw today was staff extending Olive Branch, somebody who's prepared a presentation, put in probably a lot of work in preparation.

I've been in that seat of being the staff, and I'm sensitive to that.

So I think that the compromise here is, as Commissioner Leah is suggesting, which is if we add a deference or respect, but also an acknowledgement of all the points that you made, I would suggest you reconsider an amendment or I would be making a new motion after a vote to move it to next month's agenda as an item.

So I think the motion currently stands to move the presentation to next month.

Oh, you accepted that amendment.

I don't really know.

Okay.

Well, let's just say then you did not.

It's been seconded.

So we can then vote on the amendment.

You were asking me what my thoughts were on.

And I told you that.

I don't really understand the whole process, quite frankly.

Okay, so there is an amendment to the motion on the floor to specify to have the presentation next month.

Is that correct, Commissioner Berger?

I can say what I have.

I have a motion by Commissioner Berger, seconded by Benedict, to move the item to a future meeting uncertain.

Then I have a friendly amendment suggesting that we instead move to next month's meeting.

I did not hear an affirmative accepting of that friendly amendment.

So if you don't accept, we can vote to move to a future meeting uncertain,

and then we can entertain the motion.

No, you vote for the amendment first before you vote for the final.

No.

So if you do not accept the friendly amendment,

we would vote to move to a future meeting uncertain.

And then if it does not pass, then we can vote on a potential second motion.

Is that correct, City Attorney?

Yep, so I believe with the stack, the second vote would come first, and then we work our way down.

I don't have a second for that second.

Yes, there was.

I missed it.

Barragan.

I seconded the amendment request.

Okay, so then it would be a motion by Commissioner Morris, seconded by Barragan.

Correct.

Is that correct?

Okay.

that is what I have to move it to next month.

Can I make another

friendly amendment to that?

Yeah, you can stack them.

Okay, so it's going to stack on that.

If we're going to move this to the

next commission meeting,

I make a friendly amendment

to extend the

meeting by one hour since it's a 30

minute presentation.

I don't think we can extend

a future meeting time frame

without being at that meeting.

Yeah, I think it would be proper to wait until the next meeting

and then at that meeting vote to extend the meeting.

For example, we might move quickly through the follow-up log part

and have more time for discussions.

Just asking.

So the motion on the floor is currently the amendment.

That is what we're voting on to amend the motion

to say the presentation will be next month.

So any further discussion on that?

All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed?

So one opposed.

Any abstentions?

Sorry, can I have clarification?

Who knows the name?

Commissioner Benedict?

Okay, thank you.

And abstentions?

I think I'll abstain.

That will abstain as well.

But we have enough, correct?

So, motion on the floor.

Sorry, Manager Inderman.

More time to practice.

To postpone your presentation until next month.

Any further discussion on the motion?

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed?

and abstentions all right so we are tabling this until next month

Okay.

So we now have nine minutes remaining to this.

We have three public speakers for meeting or things not on the agenda.

Our city clerk is recommending that we take a vote to extend the meeting.

I guess we have to vote for them in our block.

One hour?

Do we have to?

It's up to you.

You can continue going.

If there's not a motion to extend, you need to stop at 730.

Commissioner Retreat?

Yes.

So you have to extend for an hour, but we can end early.

Okay.

Commissioner Morris?

All right, so is there a motion to extend for an hour up to an hour so moved there a second

Any discussion all in favor? All right, I find any opposed yes, I'm opposed and any abstentions

All right.

So back to our agenda.

Commissioner comments.

So this is also, by the way, a place where it can be proposed to create ad hoc committees for those who were asking about that earlier.

But Commissioner Treat.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Canceled the question.

I canceled my request.

Oh, Commissioner Morris.

Thank you.

I actually have two things.

One, there was a memorandum that the city clerk team, did you all pass this around?

This is a memorandum from the volunteer coordinator team at the Front Street Shelter requesting that commissioners assist them in trying to locate

space for spay and I'm sorry for vaccine clinics generally for owned animals pet for pets. So the shelter has been struggling with some expensive sites and asked if we would ask commissioners to approach their city council member and or others to see if there are facilities that would meet the needs for the vaccine clinics.

I asked to outline what the needs are, like does there need to be a bathroom and a parking

lot, et cetera, et cetera.

So they put together this outline and have requested that if folks can help them identify

any space that would be good and to get back to Shannon Quinn.

So this is from the volunteer coordinator team at the shelter.

And I just have one other thing which is I really want to be clear.

My comment about so what was not about putting animals down. My comment was about this commission.

Thank you, Commissioner Bagley. This comment was about this commission and what do we do

with the information. I really appreciate Commissioner Christie and Bagley describing

how the data would be used in your mind. I appreciate that because that's what I've

been wondering about and so that's where I'm going is like what do we do once we know these

numbers is it is there a way to increase rescues or increase fosters or fly animals to another

state through your program or whatever so thank you for letting me say that i just for a point of

clarification commissioner morris i'm assuming you've probably read this and are they looking

for buildings or are they looking for like parking lots where they bring in a pop-up mostly um so far

i don't know about the pop-up idea but basically what i understand is buildings are sort of best

because in particularly with the cat situation in order to vaccinate cats on the second page it

say it says ideal sites include a place that has ample parking a safe area for customers to line

up etc sufficient space to have separate dog and cat i had the impression that well controlled

temperature inside meaning inside would be good for both vaccine for vaccine and eating dogs and

cats and definitely cat inside is a requirement. So if you read through this and you have questions,

Shannon Quinn whose email is in the memo would be the person to get back to with any questions

or comments. She wanted to be clear that I think they're specifically looking for September,

a location for September, but I think if you had other ideas about locations, it looks like

District 4 has been helpful in identifying some sites for a couple of months.

So I also think a couple of other, I want to say Katie Mabel's office has been approached about helping and trying to find a space in Oak Park.

So folks, look at the memo and take a thought about whether you could help.

Thank you for bringing that forward.

Commissioner Barragan.

All right.

Good evening.

I have a couple of updates. First I wanted to say I had the unfortunate

circumstance that I had to contact 3-1-1 last week to report what I thought

could have been abandoned animals and abuse and I just wanted to basically

congratulate and share anecdotally that I dealt with Animal Control Officer

Paul Noss, badge 395, and I truly was super impressed and blown away with the level of

customer service that I received, the follow-up calls.

So I think it's important to acknowledge good work when we're engaging that.

So I just didn't anticipate being in that situation, but I did appreciate the job of

staff.

The other thing I mentioned, interest in some kind of survey.

and I do have a draft underway,

but I wonder if maybe I could ask

to add to the follow-up log,

you know, talking with staff

or some kind of discussion item

or some information about what it would take,

maybe that's a better request,

information about what it would take

to do another survey.

So I know that this commission

in conjunction with the city

worked on a survey,

the Animal Care Services Survey,

back in October 2021.

The rationale being that the world looked really different

in 2021, and I think we're in a different place now.

And I think it's important that,

I think the poll, if you haven't had a chance to look at it,

you should, it's fantastic, really good data, well-balanced.

I still think that there is opportunity

to also evaluate sentiment

from traditionally marginalized, underserved communities,

harder to reach people in Sacramento,

especially non-native English speakers.

And so I just would like to see that on the follow-up blog

and talk more about that.

Another request for the follow-up blog,

or we can maybe just kind of tackle this indirectly.

I did email staff this earlier today,

but maybe the request is like an item on the follow-up blog.

I'd like to have some kind of staff report or presentation outlining what information, what mechanisms,

and what are the best practices that are in place to make services and information about existing city services at the shelter

accessible to traditionally underserved and non-English speaking communities.

So, you know, very timely, Ryan, that you mentioned, you know, you're wearing the hat of communications.

I'm sure you have a lot of expertise to share there.

This is more because I don't know what's available.

I know there's multilingual newsletters and brochures,

but what I do know is how, you know, I'm a Latino,

and I know that a lot of the underserved communities,

they don't use the same communication channels.

They don't have the same access to information,

and a big part of the equation of supporting animals

and animal well-being is really supporting,

like what I would say is like a triangle.

You have the animal, you have the city shelter and staff,

and then you have the people who are adopting the animals

and the advocates.

Advocates, they're in this room,

they're engaged on a regular basis,

they understand the issues.

Everybody else in the public doesn't get it,

they don't understand,

they don't know where to look for information,

they might not even know what's available to them.

And so I think if we all as a commission

understand that better,

then we all can more strongly set out to fulfill our charge as commissioners of the commission.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Verga?

I guess I'd just like to say, did you want to advance something for the follow-up log?

Okay.

Sorry.

Okay, so I had one thing, which was a discussion of what information mechanisms or practices to make services to the shelter accessible to underserved communities.

Oh, and the survey.

Okay, yeah, I got it.

Thanks.

What, Leah, to answer your question, and I don't think anybody here thinks that you don't care about animals being euthanized,

and so I don't want you to give that impression.

But what I think what you just said is what do we do?

And I think that's precisely why we're here.

And, for instance, had final plea been agendized this time that we could have talked about as a commission,

we could have made a motion to pass it to the city council and the mayor for consideration.

That is something that we could do, and I just want to make sure that everybody understands what our charge is,

is that we have the ability to do that.

Now, I know that staff at Front Street

may not agree with that 100%,

but that is something that they can,

what our charge is for us to discuss

and make decisions and make motions

that go to the mayor and the city council.

We're not changing the operations.

We're not changing the policies.

We're asking them to consider the changes

that we were recommending here.

And again, I like to always go back to what the purpose of this commission is, is providing advice and recommendations to the city council on strategies, policies, and programs designed to ensure and enhance animal care services provided by the city of Sacramento.

So it really is for us to discuss and take a vote.

And we can pass something immediately.

We can make a motion if it's an agendized item,

which it wasn't this time.

And that's why that was a hard thing to know

that we could have been doing something immediately

to help animals right now, this minute,

advancing that to the mayor and city council,

final plea, that we were not able to do.

So I wanted to say that and with that I would like to make a motion to advance the final plea, a follow-up log item to the next agenda to be heard as an agenda item discussion.

Please.

Why is it not a motionable item?

During Commissioner comments, ideas, and questions, you can request that something be added to the log, but you can't make a motion on it.

Is that correct, City Attorney?

That's correct.

We were given Rosenberg's rules of procedure so we would know how to advance something, which is by motion and vote.

Right, but a motion to add something to the agenda is not within the power of the commission, as we've discussed, because staff sets the agenda.

So a motion to set the agenda would be moot.

It wouldn't have any effect.

I would like to just make a point of order objection to that.

And I would like a specific site that says that we do not have, I know you did your Animal Wellbeing Commission meeting or handout.

and on page 7 you say the commission is specifically excuse me staff ultimately

this is page 7 on your handout Carson and let me ask you Carson on this handout

this is your handout right this is this is something that you did specifically

this one right here that you did at the last meeting yes that is mine that's

yours. So you kind of did your own thing based on the rules of Rosenberg's rules and the city

council rules of procedure etc. So my question to you is staff ultimately determines what items

are agendized for future meetings. Can you tell me your citation for that? What page? Council rules

of procedure chapter 17 section B. I would also direct you to Commissioner Handbook page 8.

okay so can you repeat those for me please yeah and is there a page or a site on that page that

you can give us please i'm giving i haven't been able to find it i'm currently giving you the

citation okay council rules of procedure chapter 17 section b section b section b that is page 53

of the council rules of procedure okay okay and commissioner handbook page 8

and I can quote directly from the commissioner handbook if you would like.

Okay.

So my question is, does it say in that language,

the staff ultimately determines what items are agendized for future meetings?

Would you like me to quote directly from the handbook?

Yes.

Quote, staff will bring issues to the commission relevant to the commission's scope of authority, unquote.

That is commissioner handbook, page eight.

Okay.

So it nowhere does it say then, just so I'm clarifying here,

that staff ultimately determines what items are agendized for future meetings.

My understanding is that you are extrapolating that interpretation,

but it does not say that. Is that correct?

Allow me to read the quote in more context.

Quote, city staff is responsible for preparing commission meeting agendas.

That's a direct quote.

City staff is responsible for preparing commission meeting agendas.

It is staff's role to ensure the agenda is prepared in accordance with the Brown Act and the City Sunshine Ordinance.

Staff will bring issues to the commission relevant to the commission's scope of authority.

That is in the commission handbook.

Reading directly from the council rules of procedure,

quote, members may submit items under the purview of the advisory body for inclusion on a future agenda

by orally making the request under ideas, comments, and questions.

That is Chapter 17, Section B.

So it does not say staff ultimately determines what items are agendized.

I'm just saying it does not quote unquote say that.

That is your interpretation.

I quoted directly from the handbook.

Great.

So going on, I would at least like to say, I guess it's not a motion,

but I'd like to say that I would still like it to be an urgent matter that we could go in the next possible agenda.

Is that legal?

I believe so.

I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?

I would like to request that the final plea that's on the follow-up log be added to the next agenda.

the request would be either to put it on the follow-up log or to i mean the the request would

be to put it on the follow-up log because the follow-up log is the means by which requests

are made and then staff decides what goes on the next agenda the point of order i mean it is a

request it is not a motion or directive although i still honestly as chair think there's a motion

on the floor that should probably be addressed.

But it is a request.

Staff can do with it what they want,

but it can be duly noted.

Okay.

So I have a question.

Can I comment on that?

Commissioner Morris?

Actually, I was going to make a comment about Commissioner Berrigan mentioned a survey that was actually not under the auspices of this committee, or it was under the city audit department.

And since Commissioner Berrigan had raised the idea of doing an audit, I remembered that there had been an audit, and I shared it with him.

I can send it.

Ryan, I'm sure, has it, but just to double-check,

I can send it to Ryan if others are interested in seeing that audit

that was conducted in 2021 by the City Audit Department.

I can send it off to Ryan.

I shared it with Commissioner Berrigan because he was interested in audit.

If you could share it actually with the Clerk's Office.

I'll give it to Ryan.

Send it to Ryan.

Send it to Ryan, and then he'll forward it.

That'd be great.

Appreciate it.

Mr. Hidderman?

Well, barring us finding, you know, perhaps we can get the answer about, you know, the anonymous poll for agenda items.

Barring that, assuming we don't have that, I assume if we put that out, this probably would be the highest item that most people are interested in.

Barring that, my sense is that, you know, the marketing for the at-risk dogs, and I'd like to make it more of a discussion than just final plea.

in my mind, Final Pleat is kind of the, like, a sort of technique within the larger discussion of,

you know, sort of outward marketing of euthanasia as a means of helping animals to get adopted,

outward marketing of dates. So I'd like it to be a broader discussion, inclusive of the Final Pleat

program as an example or a model for how this has been done. And I can, between now and then,

work to learn more about it, check out the Instagram page,

maybe get in touch with Bradshaw's communications team and learn more about it.

So just to prevent any further time or disagreement,

I'm happy if nothing else precedes it by a poll or something

for that to be kind of the item that's covered.

Since my presentation is getting moved until next,

I would have liked to also put your item on there, Commissioner Treat.

I don't know that we'll have time for all of them.

especially if I'm adding things to the follow-up log,

I anticipate there may be another round of follow-up log discussion.

But I'm happy to put that at the forefront,

as long as I have the sense that that's the highest priority from the Commission.

Thank you. Commissioner Benedict?

Yes, I think, you know, at least I need a little clarity,

because when I read the handbook,

and I brought this up at the first meeting

council

it does say that the city staff

is responsible for preparing

the commission meeting agenda

but to me that doesn't

imply at all content

that's just an admin

sort of

duty

so it just seems

very odd that the commission

we would not

be able to discuss items

that we find to be urgent life-saving items before a presentation.

And I'm sure your presentation is wonderful.

You're very good at that.

And I appreciate all the information that you give us and your communication.

But, you know, we only have so much time.

And, you know, we kind of want to talk about, you know, somehow be able to talk about the things

that we feel are going to save more lives and make some changes.

So we're just, you know, for me at least, I'm hoping that we can somehow be more involved in creating the agenda

or putting some of our agenda items on like we had discussed, like get them off this follow-up log and get them onto the agenda.

So however we can do that, if maybe we talk about it, are we allowed to discuss that at the end?

Or how do we get around this?

That is the mystery.

Is that a question directed at me?

Anyone who has an answer?

Anyone who can answer.

Well, sorry, it was a bit of a compound question,

but I understand that there's maybe some confusion

with the wording of preparing the commission meeting agendas.

I think it says that in one part of the handbook

that city staff is responsible for preparing commission meeting agendas,

which could be also construed as just mere preparation.

Staff provides support services.

One of those services is, quote-unquote, preparing meeting agendas,

which doesn't elaborate any further on it,

but I think the operative language would be, quote,

staff will bring issues to the commission relevant to the commission's scope of authority.

That goes beyond mere administrative preparation of agenda items.

That is bringing issues for discussion to commission meetings.

So I would say that would be the operative language that explains what preparation implies.

That would be my legal opinion.

So then my question is then how does the commission bring items that they want to discuss onto the agenda without it languishing on this follow-up log?

the follow-up log is the appropriate means by which to forward agenda items for future

consideration to be placed on future agendas so staff ultimately has the authority to place that

item on the agenda in the order that they deem is appropriate given the availability of staff time

and other considerations, but ultimately that is their determination to make.

And the follow-up log is the mechanism by which the commission is able to give their input

into what future agendas should look like.

And what if it's an item that requires no staff time or report or anything like that?

It's just a discussion item only.

I would still go back to staff's ability to bring issues to the commission

that are relevant to their scope of authority.

So they ultimately decide what it is that they do bring based on the, you know, different aspects through which they prioritize certain issues and agenda items.

I think one of the concerns is, especially as like myself as a new commissioner and a few others as new commissioners, we look at this follow-up log and there are items that have been disregarded by city staff for a year sitting on here.

And, you know, it is a concern that the commission is not being allowed to do the function and make the recommendations on things that commissioners have felt compelled enough to request to get on the agenda and have been ignored.

I mean, I can certainly see letting something languish that is completely out of the scope of this commission.

But a lot of these are not.

And, in fact, most of these, or all of these, really, are well within the scope of this commission.

And yet, like, for example, today we are presented with an agenda for us to do our due diligence and commission work on that contained none of the actionable items that the commission has wanted to discuss and wanted to bring forward so as to make recommendations to the city council as per our charter.

Yeah, I mean, I understand that there are disagreements and some lingering frustrations regarding items of discussion.

I don't have particular insight into how staff determines and orders their priorities.

My job is just to outline what the jurisdiction and what the responsibilities of the respective parties in this situation are,

according to the city code and the clerk's official advice.

so I can't speak to specific agenda items I'm just trying to

lay out where the lines are who does what

Mr. Berger

in light of that what we're just discussing here I have a question for you

for me attorney I'm sorry I keep forgetting your last name I know it's got

it right here all right let me be so Vanderlinden

Mr. Vanderlinden, question for you.

Did the laws regarding how this commission works change from last year to this year?

I'm not aware of any particular changes to the authorizing ordinance.

And I ask that because I'm looking at the follow-up log language, in particular the status portion of it.

and I'm looking back from November of last year,

of 2025, to this year.

And for last year, I see staff will work with the chair

to determine what can be added.

Staff will work with the chair to determine

what can be placed on the agenda for discussion.

And this year, it's that staff will determine

what month the item can be placed on the agenda.

Staff will decide what time the item is placed

on the agenda and my understanding is there's no consultation with the chair or the vice chair

regarding agenda items any any in the longer so I'm just wondering if if something had changed in

the law between last year and this year I can't speak to specific verbiage within the follow-up

log again I have no role in the creation or the maintenance of the follow-up log although I am

not aware of any specific changes to the authorizing ordinance of this commission

Ryan any thoughts on that?

Let Commissioner Barragan speak and then

Mr. Zimmerman is on the list next.

I didn't intend to speak on this but

I appreciate the citations

that were given. I do think

I think I know a little bit about the law that it is a matter of interpretation.

I did after the last commission meeting

reach out to a few friends, one who is the city manager for another city in California.

And while discretionary authority may not lie with the commission to make major decisions,

it does seem odd for a commission body for a city of our size to be handcuffed in a way

where we cannot make motions and contribute to what ultimately is on the agenda for the public to provide input on.

I would argue very strongly, and I do have a very strong difference of opinion here on the interpretation.

I'm happy to discuss it with whoever, but it is not enough to hang my hat on,

and I don't think any legal professionals should hang their hat on.

staff has authority to bring forth issues as the basis and only rationale to say that they are the only dispositive force

who can decide what is on the agenda without a partnership.

I do think it should be a partnership.

And to me, I would read that and construe that sentence to mean that staff may from time to time bring to the commission issues

that involve maybe a staff issue, if that was within our purview,

or some kind of issue that only staff would have knowledge to

but that the commission needs to opine on.

So I just think we're taking a really constricted, limiting view of the code,

and I don't think it's to the benefit of the public

and what we're charged to do as servants.

So I just wanted to say that on record.

And I appreciate your interpretation,

but I also would disagree with that on principle.

Manager Hinderman.

Thank you.

Yeah, I just wanted to say, you know, I made that change on the follow-up log,

and that was in response to the presentation that we had last time about, you know, commission rules.

I'm learning a lot more about talking to fellow, you know, colleagues and other commissions.

I've asked them, you know, about these questions, and they say it's, there are a couple of commissions where,

for example, the chair or the vice chair set the agenda, et cetera, or not set the agenda,

but they collaborate on the agenda.

But, you know, what we sort of learned from the presentation last time

is that that's not necessarily typical, that staff do get to set the agenda.

I mean, I think that's been made, you know, very clear from our city attorney,

and I think, you know, I don't know how much time we want to spend, you know,

questioning that.

That might be something that we kind of just need to accept as a group.

but I think one of the reasons that it was changed is because we do have a new commission

and I don't think we can just ignore the fact that many members of this commission have had

you know a history of I shouldn't say many I'm sorry several members of the commission do have

a history of you know attempting to publicly undermine the shelter and we need to recognize

that, right? And so I'll just tell you kind of where I'm at. I don't have full control over

what agenda items are set. Perhaps I will more in the future. But as far as my perspective,

it really depends kind of on the intent of a lot of these items. Is the item meant to support the

shelter, to help animals, to bring important issues to light? Or is this item meant to,

in some way publicly

reduce the shelter's image.

We're not going to choose an agenda item

that we believe might lead to

less adoptions or harm to animals or whatever.

And so this is really

why I had my presentation on tonight

is that

if we can address

some of the issues

as far as relationship,

not between all commissioners, not between just members of the public,

but the issues that we've had with a productive working relationship,

with the issues that we've had with communication,

and start a new chapter of trust.

If I can trust personally that communication is going to be respectful,

that the intent of the items is good,

there's nothing that I'm afraid to talk about with any of you.

but I do think we need to establish

just acknowledging the past

establish some new standards

for myself and for everyone

for how we

communicate and how

we collaborate and that was really the goal

and I'm hoping that if we can get

on that same page and I'm really

there may be

aspects of my presentation that I change because

I'm really liking what I'm seeing

like this is the first time for some of you

that I feel like we've been able to have

you know good conversations constructive conversations and i'd like to you know be

able to to continue that so um but that's kind of that's kind of the context right and that's why i

wanted to to bring this to the commission to to the commission as a presentation and a discussion

so that we can build that trust and we can start moving forward and then

talk about you know these items you know with confidence knowing there's good intent behind it

Commissioner Berga.

Commissioner Berga.

So I'm not exactly sure how I should interpret what you're saying, but from where I sit,

it sounds like that there has been a change to the agenda setting process because there's

a concern that rather than what I'm trying to achieve here, I think what we're all trying

to achieve here is help animals and that's always been the case and if that

means that that becomes a criticism it does and and that's how I've always

approached this animals first and that's why I'm here saying final plea and let's

be transparent and let's have oversight and let's promote these but that I just

want to clarify that that that's an important part of why I'm on this

Commission and and why a Punky Blom appointed me is because he said he wants

an advocate and he wants to make sure that there is some transparency and some

oversight so I hope that what you're saying is true and that we will see that

going forward in the agenda because otherwise why are we here if the

commissioners aren't going to be heard and and if what we want to prioritize

doesn't matter and saving lives doesn't matter then we could just say you know

what does it matter who cares you know so I'd like to go on record the same

that Commissioner Benedict yes my comments in regards to you said that I

mean feel like some of the commissioners or a commissioner or whatever might be

undermining the shelter and I think that we're just trying not to undermine the

animals and you you mentioned that you know things on the follow-up log might

not advance because they may be undermining the shelter but I'd like you

I challenge you to take a look at this log and see if there's one thing on here

that undermines the shelter it's all animal activism related you know it's

It's just all a voice for the animals.

I mean, there's nothing negative about, other than maybe the SOPs.

We need some SOPs, but that's, you know, that's just, we need those, right?

So, yeah, we're just asking to have our voice heard and have our concerns agendized

so that we can be the voice that we've been charged to do for the animals,

charged to be for the animals.

Commissioner Treat?

Yeah, and I just wanted to add in the,

going back to the follow-up log,

one of the reasons that I had suggested

that we try and have two biannual workshops

of which I'm working with legal counsel

to see how we put that together

is to have a full day

to talk about a lot of different issues

on how certain things work in other areas

and could it be applied

and, you know, are different suggestions

from even different states, not just different parts of California,

so that we can have full conversations that are more than two minutes from the people in the audience

or how we better take care of cats.

I mean, I don't know as much about cats as Denise does,

and that's one of the things I'd like to know more about.

So I wasn't going to put that as a high priority when we go through the ranking system,

but I actually think considering all the different things, not as a criticism to Front Street,

but as a pro-animal day of sharing thoughts with a variety of different groups.

I think the biennial workshops and those after we work with council to see how we do it,

you know, versus the Brown Act, is having it be a voluntary thing we attend,

you know, where no decisions are made, but true information comes from different sources

who have different ideas so that Front Street, even the size that it is right now,

could do better until we can build a new shelter.

Because even just building a new shelter without really good programs, size won't matter.

So that's one of the reasons that I had suggested, you know, two days a year,

we spend a whole day talking about a variety of different things that we all know experts in

that we could bring in and actually have them talk about subjects

versus taking up an extra hour each month.

So that was the suggestion as to why that.

Commissioner Bagley?

Well, I just don't know.

I want to respond to Ryan, but I'm not quite sure how I want to put it.

But I want to be honest about it.

Undermining the shelter.

I think that the parts of the shelter that some of us don't like

is outweighed by the strength or the conviction we have in our affinity for animals,

and that's the core of why we've been critical with management.

The only thing stronger for me than my dislike for your manager is my affinity for animals.

and I haven't liked the changes I've seen, and I don't like the suffering I've seen out in the street,

and the litters, and the breeding, and I don't like if staff has been complacent in it,

and has not brought up points that they know should be brought up.

But no one is trying to undermine any shelter that cares for animals, or your staff, or your volunteers,

but we've seen a degradation for the last five or six years,

and understand the frustration and the negativity comes with confronting nothing but arrogance

and a dismissive attitude and insisting on trends and not what really works

and denying that there are those of us have been doing this for 40 years

and worked with, oh, maybe eight directors and managers over the years.

We've done it all.

cleaned kennels, rescued, fostered, adopted, you name it.

And it's not recognized by management.

It is not about undermining that shelter.

My God, you worked with my daughter.

She worked five summers at Front Street,

cleaning kennels and graduated into the med unit.

You know we're a serious family when it comes to animals.

There's no undermining, but I'm not going to shut up

if I have criticism on a manager,

if I think he's tubed to shelter.

So that's what I have to say about it.

I don't want to ever be accused of undermining

and having you change listening to us

by thinking we're undermining you

because that's not it.

Okay?

Sure.

I just want to say that it's not that I think

that you're undermining.

It's that I feel like there needs to be

we need to like work together and establish a pattern that we can work together effectively

right and there are times where critiquing one aspect of the shelter can I don't undermine the

shelter is too broad you're right and I know none of you would do anything to undermine animals and

I also want to say that part of the reason why I'm excited to be here is because there is such

diverse you know a diverse experience you all come from different backgrounds you're talented

in your own ways. And I see this as a real opportunity, but I also see a certain level

of risk from the department. I've seen the damage that has happened through, not criticism.

I'm fine with criticism. It's how it's done and how it's been done. I've seen the harm

to staff. I've seen the harm to volunteers. I would be very surprised if we didn't have

harm to number of adoptions, number of volunteers, number of donors. And I know that's not the

intention of any of the criticism. I know you would never intentionally do that, but that is

just a concern from the shelter side that I'm sharing. And I think also one of the reasons I

wanted to do this is not only to like my presentation in this discussion, not only so we can like

really get on the same page as far as, you know, this being a safe space, you know, that a future

shelter director would want to come to that other staff would be willing to come and present out

without fear um but it's also not just how we communicate but to make that effective right i

know you know and thank you commissioner verga for specifying like hey your your charge is to

provide recommendations to council but i also think this is an opportunity for the shelter to

hear from you directly right like if you guys want to come together and talk and make recommendations

to council, I think that's great, but I want you to know that I'm also open to listening

and open to talking. The problem is we've been talking, a lot of these items that we're

going to, like the adoptable, the marking of dogs, we've been talking about,

many of us have been talking about this for six years, right? And what I don't want

for your valuable time here, because none of you have to be here, right?

You're missing time with your families, and I appreciate that you're here.

But what I don't want is for the end of this year to be like, you know,

we did update all this discussion we feel like you know we weren't listened to or we didn't have an

impact right like what if you make recommendations to council and you know if if changes aren't made

that's still going to be upsetting right so i want you to know that i'm here to listen and i'm here

to talk things out with you but how we talk needs work from what it's historically been and so that's

kind of i wanted to do my presentation last time so we could just start the year right start with

a new foundation and all of us including myself hold ourselves to to to different standards because

I think there's been things done on all sides that have kind of harmed the relationship, right?

And so I apologize for what I said.

It's late, and I undermine was too strong of a term.

But I just realized there is a lot of baggage on the shelter side, right?

There is, this is, you know, let's acknowledge yellowfin in the room.

There is tension in this room, and I want to get to the point where it's not about, you know, arguing.

It's not about, it's not this us versus them feeling, but it's this collaborative feeling where we can really talk about things and really make some progress.

And just to time check, it's 8.05.

So we have a few more speakers.

So if we can just keep comments brief, because we do want to have time for our public speakers.

Commissioner Benedict.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So, Ryan, I just want to ask that, you know, in this effort to kind of turn the page, you know,

would you be willing to change this verbiage from maybe staff and the chair?

change it back to staff and the chair or vice chair whatever

to make this a more you know team effort as opposed to just you doing putting the agenda together

ultimately I wouldn't make that decision you know I'm comfortable with with those conversations

again this is not something that's that's typical for commissions there are some that that do it

I kind of like the idea of if the poll is allowed,

like, again, my commitment to this commission is,

again, as long as I'm, you know, confident

that we can, you know, discuss things in a productive way,

which I'm feeling much more confident after tonight,

I'll just say that, okay,

is, you know, I'm happy to, you know, talk about whatever.

And I do like the idea of the anonymous poll.

That way everyone's voice is heard.

so that the commission as a whole and not maybe one or two folks, the issues are being brought forward.

So I do like that idea from an equity standpoint.

Whether or not we would resume the process of meeting with the chair or vice chair, I can't speak to that right now.

But what I can say is that I will make my best faith effort, whatever method we kind of talk about,

to bring the topics, at least one topic.

There might be something I want to share sometimes too, new data or something like that.

but to include those high-priority topics in commission meetings.

So I know we're trying to get sort of the legal, the right to do these things,

but I think with a good relationship, that might not even be necessary, right?

That's kind of the point.

Commissioner Verga.

So I'm glad to hear that it sounds like what you're saying is that you are committed to transparency

and accountability and oversight, and you're okay with that

because I think that at the end of the day, that's what the public wants.

That's what advocates want.

And I think one of the disconnects here is when we want final plea,

in my opinion, why I want that is because I know it saves lives.

And what your concern may be or what Front Street's concern may be

is that it will expose that animals are being killed.

and I think as has been discussed here tonight,

we have to be open and honest about the real life consequences

for these animals because that's the only way

we're really gonna be able to make a difference

is to be honest with the community

and when we are honest with the community,

it does save lives and we can discuss

what are real solutions to change that.

Commissioner Morrison as a point of chair order.

This will be the last comment on this.

So we can thank you.

I just I just wanted to observe that our role is not strictly to make recommendations to

the city council.

We get to work on projects in collaboration with the staff at the shelter.

So for example, the memo asking for folks to talk to their council members, that's not

a take it to the city council.

could you talk and see if there's a community center?

I'm going to point to Commissioner Garcia,

who did a lot of work with both the communications interpretation team

for the city of Sacramento on creating brochures in Spanish and Hmong

and Vietnamese, et cetera.

That didn't go to city council.

It was work that was discussed.

It was on a work plan.

We thought it was a good idea.

She had energy to do that.

So not everything from this commission goes to the mayor

and the city council, that's where we collaborate with the staff.

And so, you know, looking forward to continuing the collaboration with the staff as we hone in on,

gee, maybe we could increase fosters or rescues or some of those sorts of things.

And just that was an important part is the collaboration with the folks that work at the shelter.

So we will all look forward to the presentation next month.

And hopefully this will be turning a page.

I know that a lot of us, yes, you have, you know, got to sit up here while, you know, as public members, we got to voice our complaints.

But now think of it as you now have this whole body of people who obviously have a lot of passion for the work and a lot of time and energy to spend on projects and other things.

So hopefully we can really advance the work and the feeling of everything at Front Street, both for the staff as well as for the animals.

so public comments we have three speakers yes first is susan falcon

roller coaster tonight

madam chair you're doing an excellent job it's been a breath of fresh air every day all day

on my local neighborhood social app of thousands of sacramento residents who post the same thing

I can't keep my pet. I was turned away from Front Street. I can't afford to feed my pet. What do I do?

Somebody just dumped three puppies at the intersection of there's a dead cat on the side of the road.

Why doesn't animal control respond? I've been waiting for days.

Why doesn't Front Street have a direct line for emergencies?

I ask you, why do these basic questions still remain unanswered for the public?

Why, after six years of the current management at Front Street, is the public still unaware of what to do?

I thought humane education was a part of its mission.

As a concerned citizen and someone who has attended every commission meeting here for the past two years,

I'm here tonight to say this.

To the commissioners who have served on this commission for years and have kicked the can down the road,

you've lost my confidence in your ability to save our suffering shelter.

You somehow have not found the courage to ask the tough questions.

We have a scathing audit for Christ's sake.

You have demonstrated to me in Sacramento that you're unable to think outside of the box.

You have acquiesced to the worst leadership in my lifetime.

This charade has got to end.

I expected to see a productive, forward-thinking agenda to begin this year.

This agenda is a joke.

This is a joke.

I came here to expect to hear more.

I did from the new commissioners and some of the longstanding ones.

but this is just amazing to me that it's taken this long to get this far.

Tonight, I plead with the longstanding commission members here to work with these new commissioners,

embrace the change that is needed to be brave and think outside of the box.

Learn from their skill set, their education, and their accomplishments to animal welfare.

Thank you for your comments. Your time is complete.

Next speaker is Elise.

just a reminder it's a two minute there is a timer up there so

i'm just going to talk about return to owner rates but i think i want to talk about

the commission the intent of the commission i don't think is to be indentured servants to the

staff of front street and because of the retaliation that i see because you don't like

the comments that some of the current commissioners have made, you're now retaliating against the

entire commission to tell them they have no say so. Not only are you retaliating against the entire

commission, you're retaliating against the entire city council and mayor's office who have appointed

them. In addition to that, you're wasting taxpayer funds. Every one of these commissioners are paid

a monthly statement. Every one of these staffers are paid. You're paid. This commission is supposed

to help animals. We've tried to work with Front Street. We didn't start out bitter and mean.

We became that because Front Street, specifically Philip Zimmerman, refused to work with us.

You and I have had many conversations where we've been productive. But when you have a manager

who refuses to even speak or acknowledge that there's a problem or put out an entire press

release on social media and next door saying that I'm providing misinformation why I said

animals were killed for space even though your own data said they were that's the problem so it's not

just staff is being undermined the public and the animals are being undermined thank you for your

comments. The next speaker is Allison Hastings.

Is Allison Hastings here? Okay.

That's all the speakers I have for matters on the internet.

Okay.

All right. So this concludes today's agenda. Thank you, everybody,

for your participation and lasting. The meeting

is adjourned.

See you next week.

Thank you.