Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Monday, September 30th, 2024 meeting of the Sacramento Community Peace Review Commission.

The meeting is now called to order. Will the clerk please call the roll to establish a quorum.

Thank you chair. Commissioners, if you please unmute your microphones. Commissioner Sample.

President. Commissioner John Johnson. Commissioner Z Johnson. It's currently absent. Commissioner Carter Martinez.

President. Vice Chair Boen-Rostro is absent. Commissioner Griggs.

President. It looks like Mr. Johnson. For the record, Commissioner Z Johnson is walking up right now. Commissioner Landeros.

President. Commissioner Smith. Commissioner Castillo-Kringes. Commissioner Espinoza Salazar.

President. And we'll come back around. Commissioner Z Johnson. President. And Chair Bliss.

Here. Thank you. We have quorum.

Thank you, clerk. I would like to remind members of the public in chambers that if you would like to speak on an agenda item, please turn in a speaker sleep slip when the item begins.

To provide greater community participation in our commission's work, we will also allow more time for members of the public to give comments and will ask the clerk to accept speaker slips until this final speaker has concluded their comments.

For matters not on the agenda, you will have five minutes to speak once you are called upon. For matters listed on the agenda, you will also have five minutes to speak once you are called upon.

In addition, we will also be adjusting the order of our agenda to first hear brief updates and announcements from the chair.

And then second, we will hear public comment matters not on the agenda followed by the consent calendar and then the discussion calendar before closing with staff and commissioner comments, ideas and questions.

We will now proceed with today's agenda. I'd like to turn it over to Commissioner Landeros to offer the land acknowledgement.

And now I just would like to say an addition to it's time to think about what actually it means for you, your institutions.

What are the concrete actions that we take? How do we contribute to native organizations? Do we contribute? How do we treat each other as brothers and sisters? How do we treat the plant life, the animal life and how we treat our mother earth?

I just other thoughts as we I don't want to become so this is just the way what we're saying but what are the actions beside behind this acknowledgement?

Oh, thank you.

Please remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.

I'm going to ask for one nation under God and the visible liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, commission. First, just a few brief updates and announcements. Just a reminder, the Sacramento Community Police Review Commissioners are pointing to serve to two four-year terms, which coincide with our pointing council terms.

On this year, we have even numbered commissioners, six commissioners who are approaching the end of our terms on January 1st, 2025.

If you are interested in continuing to serve on this body, please submit an application no later than tonight, September 30th, if you wish to join us or if you wish to continue serving, if you're coming, if your time is up.

I received a notice as well about that. So those of you who know, don't forget to vote that out.

Next, I'd just like to offer an acknowledgement and update that we have that one of our commissioners has resigned as a result of personal circumstances.

I'd like to offer an immense amount of gratitude and respect to Commissioner Renee Carter, who is the longest serving member on this body.

Thank you for your years of service as well as your wisdom and guidance both for me and I'm sure other commissioners who have been serving on this body for so long.

Thank you.

And with that, our first business today is public comments matters not on the agenda. As a reminder for the public, you will have five minutes to speak on this item.

Clerk, are there any members of the public who wish to speak on public comment matters not on the agenda?

Thank you, Chair. I do have one speaker to the matter's not on the agenda. Mr. Kai on.

We did provide our office with a which has been provided to each commissioner.

Any chair and all commissioner, my name is Kyle. I'm here again for my father's sure you'll need to speak into those microphones there.

I'm here again for my father's death case. The hand out on my wayhand side that is my request of the repart of my father's case.

Email me the report nine nine dash three zero eight one. This is the first page of the report.

The problem of the report is the party one two three are missing from the whole report.

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point and again, there are some rearrangements. So there are some resolutions. So let's take a look at the

175, 17

And 17

19

19

19

19

19

the council can help me to follow up.

This is the status because of the OPEC office.

Ms. Watson, I file a campaign in bad in April.

For SPD internal affairs division,

I file the campaign in July 29th.

So it has been two months, also no low respond.

So that's why also if the council can,

on the next meeting, can emerge the SPD,

Captain Brian,

Kinley-Beyon or Bayon Kinley here can explain

the problem of the report and the request form

that I receive from SPD.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Chair, I have no more speaker slips

for matters not on the agenda.

Thank you, Clerk.

Just a couple of comments regarding the speaker.

And if there is anybody on the commission

who may have additional questions for county staff,

you're welcome to ask those.

Just to note that our commission being that we provide

community participation relevant to reviewing city policing,

policies, practices and procedures,

we do not have any jurisdiction

over individual complaints against individual officers.

That said, there's no harm in asking questions

to help community members better understand our role

as well as the process of for the city

in filing complaints and receiving justice

and pursuing justice on their behalf and their families behalf.

So to that end, I just had a,

well, I was going to ask the speaker,

but he is unfortunately left if he had pursued

private legal counsel or reached out to the majority

of law.

But as he is left, I'll leave it there.

And if there are any commissioners who have a question,

go hesitate to ask.

I do have a question.

I don't know, I know he's been here a few times

since I've been on the commission.

And I don't know if there's a way that we can notify him

and let him know that this is not the audience.

And just because I know he, it sounds like he's looking

for an answer from us.

And so if there is a way that we can provide him

with some information like private legal counsel or other,

I think that would be, it would be worth this time.

That way he's not coming here expecting us to do some,

takes a action.

That would be a good idea.

I don't see any contact information on the materials

that he's handed out to us.

But I believe he, I imagine that he may have already reached

out to Opsa.

And I'm sure he's going to be back again.

I've seen him a couple of times in different meetings.

So I will try and follow up and touch base with him.

Next time I see him.

And if anybody else sees him, please do as well.

With that, thank you.

Are there any more speakers for public comment?

Thank you, Chair.

I have no other speakers for public comment.

Matters not on the agenda.

Thank you.

Our next business today is approval of the consent calendar,

which includes approval of Sacramento Community Police

Review Commission meeting minutes for May,

for August 12th, 2024.

As a reminder, public, you will have five minutes speak

on items on the consent calendar.

Are there any members of the public who wish to speak

on the consent calendar?

I also have no speaker slips for the consent calendar.

Mayor Rell, do I have a motion to approve the consent calendar?

I have a motion from Commissioner Wayne Johnson

and a second by Commissioner Griggs.

We'll correct the speech all the roll.

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioners, if you could please unmute your microphones.

Commissioner Sample.

Aye.

Commissioner John Johnson.

Commissioner Z Johnson.

Aye.

Commissioner Carter Martinez.

Aye.

Vice Chair Boen Rosstro is absence.

Commissioner Griggs.

Aye.

Commissioner Landeros.

Aye.

Commissioner Smith.

Aye.

Commissioner Castillo Krings.

Aye.

Commissioner Espinoza Salazar.

Aye.

And Chair Bliss.

Yes.

Thank you.

The motion passes.

Thank you, Clerk.

We will now proceed to the discussion calendar.

Item two is the Sacramento Community Police Review Commission

follow-up log.

Like other city commissions and committees,

the Sacramento Community Police Review Commission

maintains as a standing item a follow-up log

to organize and track items that may be considered in the future.

The follow-up log details each item

and gives an estimate of when staff expects

to bring the item back to the commission.

Commission members are welcome to add items

to the log during each meeting.

And we will now turn it, I would like to, actually, sorry.

I, we will now turn it over to public comments,

as a reminder for the public,

you will have five minutes to speak on discussion calendar items as well.

Thank you, Chair.

I have no speaker slips on this item.

Thank you.

Are there any commissioners who wish to give comments on the follow-up log?

Hearing none, this is a receive and file

item, so no vote is necessary.

And we will move on to item three,

an update on the Sacramento Community Police Review Commission's

July and October community engagement forums.

So just as a reminder for folks who are watching

on February 13th, 2024, the commission adopted its work plan

for 2024, which included the goals of collaborating

with the police department to formalize the community

outreach process and provide recommendations to the city

council for future changes of the, of,

of any you general order for 10.06.

And as part of this process, our first community meeting

on the MAU policy was held on July 22nd, 2024.

While AB 41 requires a, at least one well publicized,

conveniently located community engagement meeting to discuss this,

the public at previous forums have shown interest

in discussing other topics related to public safety and policing,

such as community engagement programs and relationship

building initiatives, community policing techniques

and non-emergency response, traffic safety enforcement,

community violence prevention, intervention,

as well as civilian oversight of law enforcement.

So from the last conversation that we had around the community

engagement process, the commissioners approved a motion

for myself and the vice chair to work with the Assistant

City Manager and Sacramento Police Department to determine

the topic format, date, and location

of the community engagement meeting in October.

To this collaboration, the date of the next community

engagement meeting has been confirmed for Wednesday,

October 23rd at the Maple Neighborhood Center from 6 to 8 p.m.

And the topic will be traffic safety enforcement.

This item is an opportunity for commissioners

to reflect on July's community engagement forum

and as well as provide feedback on, on, on that,

as well as the upcoming plans for the next community engagement

meeting and obtain additional feedback to inform

how the chair and vice chair format and support in its planning.

So the recommendation is follows to discuss and provide feedback

on our community engagement forum and on the proposed 2024

October community engagement meeting on traffic safety enforcement.

Before we open up for commissioner comments,

would you like to talk to any members of the public who wish to speak on the item?

Thank you chair, I have no speaker slips.

Thank you. Are there any commissioners who wish to,

who have questions or wish to give comments on the October

community engagement meeting?

Yes. I'd like to see us provide some kind of Spanish speaking

headphones for that community out there on that day.

I know that in the past we've held forums out there and it was

well attended by the Latino Spanish speaking community.

So that's something that I think is important to provide on that day.

And I'm willing to help research that.

I appreciate that request and I think that is a fantastic idea.

I would ask the Assistant City Manager if they're,

if the city has capacity or provides such resources for this meeting.

As we did the last time, we would request that at least five days before the

meeting, we would see, we confirm whether or not we're going to have people attending

who would like to have that services and then we can work with Lynette Hall,

who is our community services manager to see if we can get that resource there.

We don't have, we don't have that as a program or service that standard.

So if you know volunteers and if you know folks who can volunteer to do that,

that would be awesome as well.

But I think when we talked about it, we said when we advertise it,

we could say, hey, if you're somebody who is needing translation services,

any language, please let us know at least five days in advance

so we can try to work on getting that set up.

I just have a quick question.

I'm sorry.

I just have a question.

So you're saying if we know in advance that people are going to need it,

how would we, how do we get that work?

When we, when we publish the flower, we can include a phone number

that they can call to let us know.

Okay, I knew, I do know that it is a costly service.

It's not free and it's not a voluntary service.

We've never found anybody to do it for free.

I think when I, when I talked to Lynn and Hall,

I think we do rely on volunteers and members of the community.

And they are, they are able to do that for us,

but we need to schedule it in advance,

which is why we're asking that people confirm that that service is going to be required and needed.

Well, if we, so I'd like to announce that if we are going to,

that we should provide that as a translation services

to engage that community that normally is not engaged because of the lack of,

because of the language barrier.

So I think that's something that we should put out on the flyer when we're announcing it.

And this way they will have a better idea how many people will need it.

And you're saying five days in advance.

And so five days in advance, does that mean the city?

So let's just say that it costs $500.

Would that something that the city would be able to?

I'll work, I'll work with the city team to figure that out once we receive those

information that those services are required.

I see Commissioner Carter Martinez,

and I wanted to just double check if Commissioner Griggs was also interested in getting on the staff.

But Commissioner Carter Martinez.

Yes, thank you.

Can you repeat the subject matter of the meeting,

how that was arrived at, and what is the role of the commissioners?

Because I heard it was to, maybe I didn't hear it,

but I heard you wanted feedback for yourself in the vice chair.

What is the role of the rest of the commission?

Right, so the, at the last meeting,

the last conversation we had this on, the, out of the five topics that were available

besides the military equipment use conversation.

Traffic safety and community policing were the two topics that were,

that commissioners expressed the most interest in having a community meeting on.

And based on conversations with the city manager,

and we had determined that the, that traffic safety enforcement was the topic that was most,

that the department could most readily present to.

So, and given that this is a particularly timely subject given the public conversation

around emergency declaration regarding traffic safety,

following recent pedestrian fatalities and the increase in pedestrian fatalities over the

last few years, I think we thought that this was a particularly timely subject to have a

conversation on. So in term, to your question about the roles of commissioners,

it's up to us to determine like how this meeting will ultimately be formatted.

In previous meeting engagement forums regarding the MOU, we have tried things such,

we have suggested holding, you know, round robbing conversations where we invite members of the

public to provide, provide open comment, like giving everybody the opportunity to be heard and

speak as we go around and then having prompting questions as well for, as well as inviting

the police department to offer presentations on how it performs its, its function in the

respective topic, which as of like, you know, as of now we've only had on military equipment use,

the same format, the police department is invited to do some or presentation, specifically on its

efforts for traffic safety and enforcement. But we can also adjust the format as well. One of the

suggestions that the chair and I, or the vice chair and I have received has been potential for,

like depending on the number of people having breakout groups to talk through, you know,

what does traffic safety look like for members of the community? What are the biggest priorities

when it comes to, like comes to the role of policing and traffic safety? So these are potential

opportunities and ideas that vice chair and I will continue to work on this. And there are also a

number of community groups that have reached out who are interested in potentially sponsoring and

provide, like providing input on how we format the conversation and could put out to their

networks as well to invite more folks to ensure that we have as many people's possible.

Okay, thank you. I recognize I was absent from the last meeting. I was ill. Is there a way we can

get something in between meetings so that I, like we don't feel so lost in between meetings if

we miss one as to what's been going on? Yeah. I was going to suggest and I've been trying to reach

out to the vice chair and we haven't been able to connect and set a time but I was going to suggest

that with the vice chair and maybe a couple of other commission members that we set up a little

working group that we can meet ahead of time before the October 23rd meeting to hammer out

not just the logistics but what data, what scope, what the presentation should entail.

I think that's really important for us to do before we, you know, so that we can have a successful

meeting on October 23rd. There are different ways that you could do it. I mean you've talked about

the different iterations that you could do it but I think it's important to hear, I need to get

some detail, you know, as to what exactly you would want, what data, what information, what you'd

like to get from PD so that I can have that work with them on that. And I think perhaps a working

group with the vice chair and maybe a couple of other commission members would be helpful to get

that accomplished and we could set that up as soon as possible. Thank you. I would be interested in

helping out with that. Appreciate that. I see Commissioner Castillo-Kringes.

So I appreciate all the work that has gone in especially this year. I think based on the

last conversation that we had, we were hoping that there was going to be a group of commissioners

working on kind of the agenda for the upcoming topics, right? Because just thinking about previous

years and some of the work that has gone on, it's, we pick a topic, we kind of do the research,

we kind of narrow down one, like hear some of the things that we would like to see from the

police department or improvements on the city. So then we can go out as a body, collect that

information, present that information to the community and then the community provide feedback

on those things. And I know that with the amount of time that has taken with some of the MEU work,

some of the recommendations from previous years, we've been stretched and to be honest we don't

have, this commission does not have the actual resources when it comes to staff time, right?

We're all doing it ourselves. So I recognize that. I'm just wondering, I don't want to set us

up to fail. I don't want commissioners to show up or actually community members to show up and

be frustrated because they're not sure what their, the role of the community is, right? What is it

that we're expecting them to kind of comment on? And I think providing a little bit of guidance

prior to that community meeting would be helpful. And again, when we talk about traffic enforcement,

that could be so big and that could be, it could go in any direction. I think we will even

fail to do a good job moderating if we don't actually provide some parameters for the community to

respond to. So I would, I would ask, is, are we ready to go on the 23rd? What work has to happen?

And I would ask the rest of the commission also, right? A lot of the time it falls on the chair

and the vice chair to do the work. And I think there has to be more participation on our end, right?

We can't just say yes or no, this doesn't work. We have to be part of the process.

So my question is, do we feel, I know that we have been pushing for, for a timeline,

I know we've been pushing for kind of more concrete plans. Do we feel ready that like this is set?

And if not, then I would say maybe we actually come back or have the subgroup of commissioners

kind of approving an agenda that could then follow a community meeting.

Appreciate that input. Commissioner Castillo-Kringes. And right now we have really just the

ideas for the format where it comes to how we will facilitate the conversation. Similar to the

M.E.U. We were going to at least let folks know like, you know, where the commission stands. When

it comes to traffic safety based on our previous recommendations, which we have approved on,

however, I think it would be a great idea for subgroup of commissioners to discuss that.

And it sounds like Commissioner Cardin Martinez is interested. And the vice chair

has helped to secure the venue for this evening. And I'm also interested, of course,

interested as the chair. Are you interested as well in helping to formulate an agenda for this?

Unfortunately, I have some family commitments and I will not be able to attend.

My dad is having surgery, so I'm not going to be able to. And I don't want to commit myself if

I'm not going to be able to put in the time. But I could commit to probably next week doing

something next week. And then I'm not going to be able to be available. But would definitely help

if that is maybe what we can do. We don't have a full agenda item, so we can't take action

as a body about saying this is kind of what the commission is standing behind. But I think if folks

can raise their hands right now because unfortunately we can't necessarily, the chair can't

pick anybody. You guys would have to volunteer now. But I think a level of commitment would be

appreciated and just to kind of make sure that we keep on task to ensure that it's a successful

community event. And again, I think given that we are asking commissioners and community members

to show up, I think we need to make sure that we do what we can to make that be the best use of

their time if we're asking folks to show up. So just my two cents.

Thank you, Commissioner Castillo-Kringes. Am I seeing any interest from commissioners?

I see. I see a couple. Okay. Good to hear. I just had one question. Well actually, I'll turn

over to Commissioner Landeras. The last question. So are we saying that we'll move the meeting out

more instead of the 23rd to give us time? Or are we going to stick to that and then just have

the meeting prior to having us as a group meet first? Or are we saying we're going to state

to the for the October 23rd date? For now, we're sticking to the October 23rd date.

Unless the subgroup decides that we need to push it out and we would need to reach out to the

Maple Neighborhood Center to make sure that we have additional dates which ideally would happen

in November. The reason that we selected October was because first we don't have a meeting,

scheduled public meeting for the commission during that month. So we have a little bit extra time.

But also to based on our work plan, our next meeting is scheduled headed at an inordinate time

on the first Monday instead of the second Monday in November 4th. And then we are,

and that was ideally the date that we were going to after discussing some of the work plan ideas

for 2025 tonight. Come up like commissioners who have recommendations that they wish for

for commission, the full commission and the public to consider would put them on the agenda

for November. And then we would schedule an additional meeting in December to finalize that

and improve the work plan before the end of the year. And that request has already been put out

to the city clerk's office. I am still waiting for a response back and I have requested they

respond no later than the second week of October. So yes, sounds like we've got interest in a

subgroup of commissioners meeting and I think the vice chair and I can definitely schedule that.

I had a question for the assistant city manager.

Is the peak like will the PD and yourself be reaching out to the vice chair and I as well

as the subgroup of commissioners or is it only are you have you reached out only to the vice chair?

In the last week I've reached out to the vice chair.

But try to set that up. What we haven't been able to connect. I'll continue to try to reach out

to set it up. I appreciate that and I would also appreciate you include me in that conversation as

well given that vice chair is currently traveling and we are working in tandem together around this.

So I would appreciate you including me on that conversation. But we will definitely schedule

I'll reach out to the ones who raised their hands tonight who are interested and we will schedule

a time to meet within the next week if that works. Are there any other commissioner questions or comments?

Very well. I do not believe there is one. Oh, sorry.

And maybe what I would suggest is that whenever the plan is kind of prepared by the subgroup of

commissioners maybe you could just email the rest of the body. I know that we can respond to it

but at least just for awareness before people show up on the 23rd. Yes.

To have a better understanding of what might be covered.

Definitely will. Appreciate that. And there may be community groups that we connect with as well

to help inform some of the agenda as well.

With that. I believe there is no need for a vote so we will move on to item 4.

The discussion on the Sacramento Community Police Review Commission proposed 2025 work plan topics.

So for those who do not know the Sacramento Community Police Review Commission was created to

provide participation in reviewing police department policies practices and procedures and

monitoring the implementation evaluation and sustainability of city policing initiatives

according to Sacramento City Code. Among other things the commission is required to advise and make

recommendations to the city council regarding city policing policies procedures and best practices.

To do this our commission monitors and evaluates cities the city's policing initiatives and programs.

And we typically have met in the past about 10 times a year with meetings really ranging from one to

three hours. And being that while these meetings are staffed by the clerk's office we do not have

formal day-to-day staffing like other commissions city commissions do. So every year and every year the

commission is required to submit a list of its proposed projects for the upcoming year without that

support to the city council for approval delineating our areas of focus as well as our priorities.

So it was our goal for this item to begin discussing ideas and prepare a draft work plan for review

at our November meeting and approve a final work plan by our December meeting that we're scheduling.

So the vice chair and I have begun to draft language and identify priorities for a 2025 work plan

and I think it's important that we discuss and collect ideas from you all as commissioners for

areas of focus from the full commission. Some of you are going to be continuing on

past this year based on your terms and some of you may not but that's okay you can still inform

the conversations so would welcome you all to share ideas feedback and identify any areas of interest

for the vice chair and I to include as we draft the 2025 work plan.

So the recommendation tonight is to discuss and provide ideas on our work plan our 2025 work plan

topics. Before we begin are there any members of the public who wish to give comments on

this item. Thank you chair I have no speaker slips on this item.

Thank you clerk are there any commissioners who wish to give comment?

Yeah commissioner card on Martinez.

You just have a question which commissioners seats are up at the end of the year.

That is a good question. Thank you I try to come up with good question.

I wonder if the same clerk might be able to answer that.

Uh Jacob Redberg office of the city clerk um seats recommended by the even number district so

to four six and eight as well as the seats recommended for appointment by the mayor are um

are expiring at the end of this year.

Yep.

Um I see commissioner Castillo crings and uh then commissioner sample and then commissioner

Landeros.

I think that was from the previous.

Ah I got you commissioner sample and then commissioner Landeros.

Yes you know I was looking at the 2024 goals and ejectism one of them was to conduct the joint

workshop with the city council to address the city auditor's recommendations.

Obviously that hasn't happened is that something we can carry on to the next work plan or is that

just it happened because it was talked about I guess maybe I'm just trying to get some clarity

on that piece. That is a very good question.

Uh the short answer is yes we can carry forward any like we can carry forward uh work that

still needs to be completed although well we technically still can't create ad hoc committees

if I'm not mistaken um so but the work topic areas you know if we need to continue on for certain

items we can uh move that and the joint workshop was something that city council had invited us

to agree to uh back in October 3rd uh last year and we agreed to on October 9th and since then we

have met and discussed this uh both on January 8th and June 10th of this year um we have met with

members of city council including the mayor to discuss the format and areas of discussion for

that workshop as uh recently as March and we have submitted uh feedback on the on this agenda for

the workshop um uh both verbally during our meetings as well as in writing.

Um as of today we have not heard a response from uh city staff that are supposed to be coordinating

this workshop and scheduling this but um those of us that were the subgroup of commissioners including

the vice chair and I who uh participating in these conversations have requested a response

from the mayor and city council members who were involved in this planning and as well as their

corresponding uh corresponding staff and are uh proposing that this meeting be scheduled um at least

in October uh given that we are not scheduled to meet during that time but we are uh uh uh the

vice chair and I are committed to ensuring that we have this joint workshop um before the end of

the year. If that if said if they do not uh get back to us we're going to continue to reach out

but that actually raises uh one of the questions I was hoping to ask um for you all as individual

commissioners the vice chair and I are interested in meeting with each council member we've reached out

to each council member's office at least once uh not twice and uh we have not heard a response back so

uh the next step I'm going to I would like to request a view all as individual commissioners

is to request a meeting with your council member and invite the vice chair and I uh to participate in

that conversation so that we might be able to work through any delays or uh concerns regarding

a joint workshop and other topics uh I see commissioner uh Landeros oh no commissioner Wayne Johnson

yeah uh I want to thank the commissioner sample for raising the overall topic before I did

uh uh at this juncture in our history I think there's nothing any more important than getting

on the same page with city council you know on it both in terms of process priorities anticipated

outcomes you know until we kind of get that coordinated we're it's like shots across the bow

you know on it everybody's ducking and nobody catching you know as we go forward

but the responsibility both for commissioners here but also equally and if not more so because

they're elected is for the city council to be responsive to the concern that caused the creation

of this commission in the first place you know on it and the fact that we're continuing to have

incidents not pointing fingers either one way shaper or or the other but we continue to have

safety concerns and issues that that get risen up here in recent times whether it's the shooting on

I-80 or you know uh you know shootings with uh you know uh these these little gang bangers you know

and the like I mean there's any left and number of issues out there that you can put under the

hubris you know traffic safety and so we need to kind of hone it down but we also uh both in terms

of the workshop on the 23rd as well as for this item we also want to be very clear and present

what is occurring in terms of incidents and type what kind of actions are already underway that

people may or may not be clear on in terms of what the police are doing or not and then at the same

time I think it's it's it's it's conquimit and on this commission has represented some of the

community to go back to the community and say that you know it's it's insufficient to complain if

you're not going if you're not going to input you know on it you know uh and and people can do

you know input you know anonymously you know on it and and otherwise I appreciate you know the

concerns over personal safety but no one is closer to the ground on who's driving these cars

and the little spin-offs you know uh you know who who who's who's to push it on the corner you

know who who's got guns and you know and what community organizations are already in place

and trying to impact upon both youth and adult you know uh miscranse if you will you know on it

and and how we go about trying to change the tenor of our community that's really what this is about

mm-hmm you know on it and so you know I I don't want to go into this yet in any in any way shape

performed with with us looking at and saying oh you know it's it's all on police or all on

community we're in this one together you know on it as a reality you know on it how do we make

it work better and improve both the safety and the nature of our community living that's the

priority for me well thank you misshaar johnson do I have any other questioners who wish to speak

on this item on work plan ideas and topics

fish or credit Martinez um just a question I know we're not allowed to have ad hoc

committees um but we are allowed to have working groups is that correct

yep is there a big difference is it just what we call them

this is a question we have brought up many times since uh chapter 2.4 oh has changed and the

short answer is yeah we can we can do uh work groups but we cannot talk about what we do in

those work groups on the dius um and report back like we did previously for ad hoc's um and

welcome the uh the city attorney to correct me if I'm wrong but um yes commissioners can meet

individually um with one another and have conversations um as long as you are not meeting and

discussing as we are not meeting and discussing as a quorum um so one of the things that uh we

could definitely do is uh have conversations uh either by phone or um you know show up for coffee

and just get to know one another and uh talk through some of our ideas and topics based on

our read of the uh of the city of the current city code that said uh city code is likely to change

based on uh city council's current direction and it sounds like we might actually get our ad hoc

groups uh back again which would be immensely helpful uh as that's been one of the most

inhibitive things uh to our ability to function um both in this commission and other commissions

so uh it sounds like there's interest in potentially a subgroup of commissioners talking about uh

2025 work plan topics which I would welcome any commissioner who wishes to take the lead on such

conversations by all means uh you can reach out and invite like uh and invite one other to

a conversation and uh get that feedback um it's not to put you on the spot but uh if you're interested in

that uh let's talk about that um um uh commissioner Castillo cranes

a hundred percent echo with um commissioner Johnson just said I think the

um I just think that we still don't have clarity as to how the commission should work in

collaboration with PDN city council and before we do anything else and add more recommendations

I think that it has to be cleared up at first I just to me it is the number one issue that

continues to cause a lot of tension and a lot of just conflict and so I think that would be the

number one priority the other thing is it has to happen quickly the new council members are going

to come in December and so if people that are on this body right now that's also when new terms

you know are going to basically happen for folks that are going to be out of the commission

so that would be work that has to happen between now and then so I would suggest that it might be

what we prioritize before anything else um it was a very valid point uh added myself to the

queue but um uh first commissioner Espinoza Salazar um I have a question for Adrienne and um the question

was what's the difference in the numbers between ad hoc committees and the working groups is it like

like how are we allowed to meet or work and then how many members yeah it's uh it's not well

the number six you can't have more so five or less yes how you can meet it and then that's less

than a quorum you can meet in person as well um okay yes thank you thank you uh Espinoza Salazar

couldn't agree with uh what's been said uh already more uh yes we are until we actually have

this conversation and get on the same page with council it really just feels like we are

uh a checkbox uh like for better or worse um and when it comes to providing community participation

and it's really hard to uh have community participate when uh the police department is as it as

as is today currently not attending our meetings for whatever reason we need to have the um

uh serious conversation with city council uh this has come to a head more times than one and

based on the city auditors report until we have this conversation and really work out these issues

that were identified as part back as 2021 we're gonna keep doing it like keep doing this I can tell

you just from um uh the work that we've done so far uh I've got only a few more recommendations

that I'm planning to bring up one of which is uh going to be in addition to the MEU uh conversation

which we'll talk about next but yeah I uh think we really need to have I have this serious

conversation as a this is why I uh in requesting each commissioner to schedule meeting with their

council member figure out when like when can we have this meeting what like I what is the concern

that prevents us from having this meeting and uh try to work through those talk through those

collaboratively as we were appointed to do uh I see commissioner Carter Martinez

um I was just gonna co-sign on what commissioner johnson and kastio kring said said I think um

I've been on the commission gosh almost two years now and I feel like we've had a version of

this conversation at every single meeting I've been at in those almost two years and um we've all

expressed our frustration with not being able to move forward so if it takes like creating

some work groups that can get into the nitty gritty and do some work and help move it forward so that

the burden is not all on you and the vice chair then I'm all down for doing that

I appreciate that commissioner Carter Martinez and um yes the short answer is please um you

based on the current rules we are allowed to uh form work groups to discuss our current work

priorities you know as long as we're not coordinating it and talking about it on the on the

dias and meeting and talking about it is with more than six commissioners um yes we like this is

just continuous back and forth and a lot of it is just based on personality agreements from my

observation and it's we like we need to actually sit down as you know uh as commissioner Wayne

johnson has said multiple times put on our adult pants and get to the table and talk like adults

uh commissioner sent um it's probably unfair of me to comment on this I'm not going to be applying

for membership on the commission um for uh in the future that being said um just reflecting

on this as someone with 35 years of experience and public affairs and and political affairs um I

agree with you that you do need to have those meetings with your city council members that being

said I think that you need a hard ask and you need to figure out what your fallback position is

because you're not going to get the answer that you want um I would encourage you all to figure

that out before you make that ask um because of inevitably they're going to ask well what do you

want to meet about and you have to have a good answer something that's going to actually get

them to the table so um I love what you all are doing but um yeah uh it just uh it suggests

a slightly different format very sound advice I appreciate that commissioner Smith and um yeah I'd

say uh and I'll turn over to commissioner johnson you probably have an answer or not

uh good point took mine you know or it but uh I wanted to make sort of a one variation on what

you proposed in terms of uh going back to our individual council members we I I would just

intrude in it and it may be happening I just don't know it but I I would just entreat each of the

commissioners after both before or after each of these meetings to provide feedback directly to

your council member so that they're hearing what is what is the issue and the angst

that's coming up both as commissioners in terms of how do we function and what are priorities

and what level of respect and interaction does the commission get or have and be able and able to

bring to the table I'm not I'm I'm busy I do a whole bunch of different things you know on it

and so but I'm but I'm dedicated to this issue you know on it but I don't want to waste my time

so so either we're going to have meaningful dialogue be on a strategic coordinated path

between ourselves and what the council's appetite is you know uh for going forward or we're not

you know I can go back and look at Netflix okay or something else but so it's it's important I

think for each each of us to go back and I've going back and and said it to my council member what

the what level of importance do you put on being able to have the dialogue with city council

all clear you know on process priorities anticipated outcomes if I could just get those three answers

I'm golden you know I'm golden you know we don't have to we don't have to hit a home run on every

single thing you know but right now you know we're we're shooting in the dark okay you know on it

and and and to drag versus one moment you know and and I will agree with the chair that you know

too often the my view too often the functionality of this commission has been driven by a relationship

of personality you know if the powers that be agree we're good if they disagree yes shut down

you know we got to get past that you know um and again I've been I've been real clear with the

chair you know one thing he didn't step down or done something off the off the off the off the

condorosa I'll say it to him you know you heard me from the diets even you know but at the same time

you know as they say even a broke clock was right twice a day you know on it and and the chair

has been as well you know and we just and we're probably talking about it more under under the

next item you know on it but the with with the M.U. as an example of of reporting back out to

to the council chair was rushed you know on it the council was not given a true venue you know

to be able to articulate what it is the work has been and what the recommendations are and why

they are you know on and that's important to have put into the proper perspective you know on it

and there and if we can do that it becomes larger than a cult of personality you know on it and

more so a concern for community and a concern for all our officers you know you know you've heard

me on many different issues I'm down right I'm straight down the middle you know on it if the

police are wrong I'll call it out you know but they're not wrong all the time you know on it and I

will support them for what it is that they have done and the same is true for community members

we're not always right but there is a map there is a reality of perception that needs to be

addressed because perception is reality for those that perceive it okay you know on it so until

you can start to articulate actual actions real facts real outcomes you know and and detail

proposals on how we're going to go forward to advance the recommendations that have come up

be it from the auditor be it from this commission be it from the public at large be it from

individual council members I don't care where they come from but we have got to have a form in which

we articulate that and have meaningful discussion you know and time to discuss it because I

agree to be on this commission because this this was a preeminent issue for for the functionality of

our city all right for the protection of our citizens as well as the protection and use of

our police you know as I've said many of them time before you know audit I'm not a defund the

police kind of guy you know on it audit I know that going well when somebody's breaking in my house

I ain't called Snoopy okay I'm called for a cop you know if I don't shoot on my dance so you know

on it all right you know so we all have to be real all right around what the need is for police

and stay focused on how we really want to see behaviors on both sides come to the question

of how we go about addressing and improving where we're going all right I'm off my soapbox

thank you commissioner Wayne Johnson yeah can't say it really any better speaking for myself I

I wanted to serve on this body because I firmly believe that citizen participation is the

cornerstone for a healthy democratic process it's not sufficient for me or any of us to be critical

or provide feedback around an institution's practices from the outside alone I believe it's

beneficial and necessary to actually dedicate that time and labor to advocate for changes from

inside as well and from my experience that's ultimately been and this was confirmed in the last

meeting which we'll talk about advocating for our work has been what's gotten us even to this

point around like you know we'll talk about this in the M.E.U. but that's ultimately what we're

what we're having to do and I think you're right what commissioner Smith what commissioner Johnson

others have been saying of like having a hard ask like what is the like what is what is what do

let's council member what does each council member intend with the police review commission what

do they expect from us in terms of our work our scope and priority and what how do they expect us

to do that work what is their expectations I think is like one of the key ask but there is

interest in a work group and really talking through this and we have at least a few more months

time to really think through this you know and if we need to take more time we can take more time

because we're not going anywhere right now are there any other commissioners I see a couple old

hands I think but want to make sure seeing none I think it's been helpful conversation in terms

of what's really on on top of our minds the key ask I would say is to reach out to your individual

council members if you have some hard asks definitely share it with the vice chair and I and

with the commissioners that are interested in forming a working group let's talk about this after

after our meeting okay all right I think that there is no need to take vote so we'll move on to

the next item item five presentation from the Sacramento Police Department's I'm sorry

the title was actually skewed on my end a whoops we see there there you go item five

Sacramento Police Department's response to the community police review commissions military

criminal use recommendations with that I will turn it over to assistant city manager Mario Lara

to give a quick overview of the response of its responses thank you I get evening this is a

receive and file item it's the Sacramento Police Department's response to the 2022 and 2023

commission military equipment use recommendations there were 36 recommendations

18 of those recommendations were approved and implemented nine or partial implemented to

pending for the review and seven were unable to implement you have the detailed responses the

forms in your packet and with that I'll take any questions that you have certainly you said that

there are 36 responses to our recommendations and I wanted to provide clarity given the August 27th

City Council meeting SPD's representative Captain Clayton Buchanan claim to have received 50

ME recommendations from 2022 and 2023 regarding military equipment which they presented

implementing 78% of them today we're only seeing by my count 36

has the department received our official recommendations at any point prior to

the August presentation and that drafted this response my understanding is that these 36 were

the official recommendations that Jeff had pulled from the meeting records that we had with

the entire body I don't know if you had submitted others in through other venues but my understanding is

that this these were the recommendations that were pulled that were actually presented and discussed

here with this body I think that's important that we actually clarify because when I listened to

that presentation I was particularly taken aback that the department thinks that it had received

that many recommendations when by the official public record there have only been 30 recommendations

that this commission has approved 13 that were commission based recommendations for 2022 which

were approved on March 13th 2023 nine recommendations that were based for 2023 based on community feedback

those were discussed on August 14th of last year in 2023 and approved on March 11th 2024

can I get the presentation slides? So just to make sure that we're highlighting this these are

just seven of the 2022 recommendations that were approved just summary overviews

and the official language I think it's important to clarify given the degree of confusion or

misleading that August like that there were draft recommendations that our commissioner

an ad hoc group of our commission had produced prior to the City Council's first approval of

the department's M.E.U. policy we had also submitted a letter that was produced quickly in response

to City Council requests and based on one private meeting with the police department's liais

on at the time then Lieutenant Greg Galliano which is why the military equipment use letter or

memorandum only included five out of eight draft recommendations that the M.E.U. ad hoc of the time

had produced and and the letter and also why the letter was only signed by five members of the

commission rather than the full commission following the discussion approval of the M.E.U. policy

by City Council the commission's ad hoc continued its research and discussion to update the draft

language and add five additional recommendations that were approved which is the official this is

these are the summaries but the official language has been shared with the full with the department

as recently as fall October 25th 2023 in fact we's a commissioner or Castillo cringes I would hope

can attest as well we've talked about this with and during our bi weekly meetings with the assistant

city manager and SPD representatives Captain Clayton Buchanan and Jeff Lutennit Shariashi around

the discrepancy the misunderstanding when it came to their response to draft recommendations

because we actually received responses to those recommendations prior to so that we these are

the nine recommendations for 2023 that the commission approved we had if you remember from lat for

those of you who are around last year following the three community forums around M.E.U. held in

July 2023 our commission was given less than three weeks to synthesize community feedback notes

and draft a report with recommendations to meet a city imposed deadline to submit for the staff

report and agenda as a presentation to the full city council for consideration prior to their

reauthorization of SPD's M.E.U. policy the chair at the time Castillo cringes and I as vice chair were

only able to produce an outline of that report and present draft recommendations verbally based on

the community feedback via detailed overview at the during the commission and this was done on a

short time frame in order to meet the city imposed deadline despite that meeting the deadline and

then emailing the engagement report with recommendations to each council member along with the

commissioners at the time the report was neither agendized nor attached to the staff report

concerning the M.E.U. policy before city council reauthorized it without making any changes

we ended up formally adopting the M.E.U. recommendations of the community based recommendations without

changes during when we approved our 2023 annual report following that we had the eight community

based recommendations that we actually did approve on august 12th of this year which is a bit

different than what we've done in previous years but when SPD first published written responses

which we had received as early as august 16th 2023 we had noted in at length in private in our

private biweekly meetings as well as during our public commission meetings that their responses

were based on draft recommendations and not the official approved recommendations to which

at least eight recommendations from 2022 were duplicated based on what's in the staff report and you

can see these the august 16th response to the draft language that was shared in that one meeting

with PD is available at the top and then the response to the approved language of our of our

2020 recommendations is at the bottom same thing too with recommendation number two which was

like was was around comparative reporting and demographic reporting that was what we had that was

one of the top five recommendations that we had prioritized in our memorandum understanding that

we submitted prior to city council's initial approval of the MEU policy and PD had provide us

response a year later essentially stating that it was the same as this being the pictured response

provided above and we can share that I will share that with the full commission after the meeting

or whatnot because I tried to actually include all this in the staff report but for whatever reason

it was not included this is the the what is highlighted in green is the official

response to or the official approved recommendation response that we received so that is

currently included in there and we have we are currently working to evaluate those responses

which I'll get to at the end of this but just to showcase you know recommendation number three

same thing around armoured piercing ammunition two different responses based on one based on draft

recommendation language the other based on the approved recommendation language

recommendation number four from 2022 which was on city council approval before any public or

private funding may be spent this was also included in the memorandum as well as a draft

recommendation which the department provided two responses to both the draft language and the

memorandum as if those were two separate recommendations when they were actually just one so the

green again being the highlighted or being the official approved recommendation that they do have

in this staff report same thing with 2022 recommendation number five around cataloging

military grade firearms and launchers number six for 2022 around clearly stating the limits and

conditions there was two responses to the draft one to the draft recommendation and one to the

memorandum and 2020 or number eight which included another or two responses both two different

parts of the memorandum which was included in the document and published on the city on the police

departments a v41 transparency page which we had requested if you remember those of you who are

around last year to re-requested they take that down to provide the approved language that the

commission had put up and then recommendation number nine this is the last of the duplicate

duplicated responses that PD had provided to city council and the public on august 27th of this year

these there are fewer duplicated responses for the community based recommendations from last year from

2023 but they essentially had nothing had changed from the commute from what we had discussed

and shared in the community engagement report to council last august and the ones that we approved

when we approved the annual report earlier this year but because there appeared to be an ultra

title the the police department provided two separate responses to the same recommendation so

for the interest and the interest of transparency I wanted to make sure that we were including all

of these responses so that we could make sure that we're providing that we're getting a clear input

of how the department has actually implemented if at all the recommendations as they are describing

so again the august these were responses that we received or that the city council had received

last month they were not sent to us directly we were only we only received them after one of

our council members had emailed it to the vice chair and I and we followed up with the

assistant manager and the department about if these were their official responses and why they

weren't sent to us directly and they were saying there's a response that folks can read online

that I believe everybody was included on but recommendation number two recommendation number four

and recommendation number six of the 2023 community recommendations were all duplicated based on

their misunderstanding which we have email records to show that there were they had received

these the official approved language as early as October 25th and we had talked about it again at

length during our pie weekly meetings so rather than what is currently including the staff report

this is the city manager noted was that the department had approved 18 approved and implemented

18 of our recommendations nine partial implementate or partially implemented to repenting a further

review and seven enable what is actually what the department has actually written responses to

and what we can

and that is that they have approved and implemented 10 recommendations from 2022 and 2023

partially implemented six and are pending further review of two and unable to implement four

of those recommendations and based on I wanted to give a quick overview of what occurred

during the city council meeting these are outstanding questions that the subgroup of us

and the vice chair and I had that we were hoping to present the city council but we were not able to

based on their limiting of our of my speaking time as well as my ability to present slides

essentially what was proposed by city council ultimately adopted by the council and their direction

was that they approved the MEU policy without any changes but directed the Sacramento Police

Department to work with our commission to address the unmet recommendations as well as these

six questions namely which is what situations is the deployment or use of this military equipment

necessary for keeping civilians and SPD officer safe what reasonable alternatives has SPD explored

which may achieve the same objective of officer and civilian safety expected from military equipment

used how does the police departments MEU policy effectively protect the public safety and welfare while

also safeguarding our civil rights and civil liberties what legally enforceable sanctions are in

place to deter or prevent MEU policy violations by SPD officers why is the proposed purchase or

acquisition of military equipment necessary within the current budget cycle and where have passed

where have changes been made in this policy that fixed past misuses or at minimum address

complaints alleged under previous military equipment use policies we are the council based on my

understanding and I would invite the commissioners that watch the meeting and there were present to

correct me if I'm wrong but we were I heard that council direct the police department to provide

written responses to these questions along with the unmet recommendations and worked with us

to address those and then when the auditors MEU report is done council directed that they

presented with everyone together the police department and the police review commission and by my

understanding we are supposed to be consulted at least by the auditor around the MEU report but

no confirmations around that and that that going forward the commission's recommendations and

questions are always included within the MEU process which I understood included the staff report

which like for the second year in a row our recommendations and the letter that several of us had

provided to council members were not included in the staff report and the final staff report for

the full council so with that there are several questions I have but first we want to turn it over

to public comment as a reminder the public you have five minutes to speak on discussion counter items

clerk are there any members of the public who wish to speak on this item thank you chair I have

no speaker slips on this item great do I have any commissioners who wish to ask questions or

or give comment regarding what they just heard

commissioner Wayne Johnson

you know I think you fairly presented kind of what happened at that that particular council meeting

on it I was in attendance you know on it as you know and and and and again just the overall

proceeding and the frustration for me as a commissioner is is to say that once again that the work

of the commission has to be a real presentation you know and a real exchange between us and the

city council it can't be limited to you know two two minutes five minutes you know presentation

like like you give to members of the general public you know you've asked these commissioners to

take time out of their lives and their schedules to dedicate themselves to research balancing

analyzing you know proposing you know and everything else and there has been progress

between this commission and and a police department we need even more and there's got to be some

give and take on both sides of the aisle but if if you if this commission cannot falsely present

its own item you know as part of the discussion with council would we're short shift you know

you're you're you're and you're an also ran in the discussion you know all that's not a position

I want to be it that's it you know either either it's real it's false or it's not and right now it's not

you know and again that's why it is so so important to get this conference meeting you know

between this commission and the council to once again get clear on prioritizations you know where

we're going how we want to go about it you know on it and what is the anticipated outcome

from everyone you know we have we have our own individually and collectively council similarly you

know collectively and individually has theirs between the twelve of us and the members of the council

we got to get on the same page the same road in terms of what is that is important about

understanding and balancing community concerns as well as the realities of policing and their safety

on the streets you know and and until we really have real dialogue we're not going to make the

progress that we need to make on both sides again and and so so once again I'm just imploring both

you as commissioners to talk with your individual council members I'm employing Mario and you're

in a awkward position you know to do what you can with with Howard you know on this and there was

there was real friction going obviously going on on on the dius at the time of this last meeting you

know on it and that they had nothing to do with us you know on it so you know that the city's got

to come together with what is their strategic objective and what is their strategic plan

in concert with this commission because the the shortest way of not hitting the target is not to have one

you know that's it and I'm not looking to be confrontational I'm not looking to have conflict

between the bodies you know on it but the lack of clarity lends itself to that you know on it and

we need to move away from that construct and get one one that says what are we looking for

in terms of the benefit to bring to the community and what are we looking for in aid being able to

strike a balance between what the police needs are for policing and protection that's very real

you know on it and I and I just just because I got the mic once again I appreciate you know the

the the issues on both sides you know and I appreciate the fact that there has been

some some lowering in certain areas but but increases in others when it comes to violence in

the city you know on it and we've got to come together as a community and as a police department

to say what do we do about it and what do we understand as causal factors what do we understand

and want to support as as actions to be taken both by community and by by police you know on it

and and as much as folks don't like it you know you got to come to the reality of a police officer has

got their ass on the line when they out there and increasingly over the over the last decade the

bad actors are as well armed and in some cases better armed you know than the individual patrol

officer is at the time there are so you know there it's it's it's a it's not only just a local

issue it's a it's a state and federal issue in terms of just the supply of arms you know that flow

into our inner cities and the like you know and and and and and we've got to we and the police have

to deal with that reality you know on it so there's going to be the need for some of this in

any of you whether you like it or not you know because you know when you've got an individual

you visual officer wouldn't what a 9 millimeter sidearm that that stops the car and they got a

tech 9 sub machine gun you know audit 8 and 8 and a match up you know you know audit so you know

some certain levels of additional protection have got to be afforded as a tool of the trade

but you don't necessarily need a howitzer all the time to be able to shoot a butterfly okay so we've

got to strike those balances and the only way we get there is having the uncomfortable conversation

you know and that's where we've all got to be we got to stop reacting to where different factions

you know want to bring their consternation their angst and their anger to an issue you know

they got to write that they're perspective but so do so do the other factors that are out there

and so we've all got to be challenging ourselves and our constituency to get engaged in meaningful

dialogue trading off on it and that whole thing that happens whether it's in a family or in a

marriage compromise you know on what it will move the needle forward you know because otherwise

we just continue to spend spin wheels you know audit we continue to be putting our officers at risk

and putting our community members at risk you know we can improve the circumstance but we all

got to want to do it and it means you got to also be willing to give something on your side of

the discussion. So just want to take a step back I'm not going to assign intent to what happened

or the information that the PD provided to council whether it was 50 recommendations if they

made that a mistake or not because we have a lot of recommendations I will say those stepping

back so just to be clear chair you it's a total of 22 recommendations. You're right 22

recommendations that have been that we now have responses to but how many in total have we

provided them now as after as of this year we have 30 recommendations we approved eight

additional recommendations in August. Okay but going back on the 22 that they had right 22 in total

and I don't want to gloss over this because I think it's important back to kind of working

together and the progress that has been made 10 of them are implemented six of them are being

worked on so that is more than half of the 22 and again I think we need to recognize that because

if and again that's not including the the additional that were passed or that were approved in 2024

I'm talking about 2022 and 2023 a total of 22 a total of 16 that are being worked on 10 of those

are implemented and I think we have to kind of recognize again I'm willing to kind of hold

it hold them accountable and make sure that we call them to task but also recognize when they are

we're making some progress because I think it also kind of shows that some of the work that this

body is doing some of the community work is also being highlighted some of the recommendations

that were not approved right and this goes back to the university council because I think it's a

combination and this is something that I've always said it's not just on the PD it's also unerelected

officials because they are the ones that actually have the the authority to provide us more budgetary

options and so one of the things that the community recommended was hey let's provide additional

staffing authority and also additional funding to make sure that the community meetings are actually

paid for right when we talk about who's going to pay for water or services if we don't have a budget

then it is not feasible for us to kind of provide any of these other resources and that is not

up to the PD that's up to our city council to approve additional budget resources for us so I just

want to kind of say I again let's be fair and try to make sure that we are allocating blame where

it should be but at the same time I also think it's important for us to recognize when we are doing

something right because otherwise it makes it makes it feel like we're just in a you know a hamster

in a wheel and it's not going anywhere and the reality is some work has happened so just want to

kind of recognize as well doesn't mean that it's enough and it doesn't mean that we stop but I think

it's important to recognize that as well. Thank you Commissioner Castillo-Kringes and

would agree with you that it's not all on PD to implement these there are several recommendations

that were specifically directed at council in which based on the analysis the ones that were

that the police department was unable to implement those are like there are at least three

that are specifically directed to council to implement. One of the things that

that I took away that I found particularly discouraging and informative was what the mayor stated to

the public and the police department around AB41 before they called me to present it was

this law is very interesting it is a law of transparency it is intended to give the public a view of

what equipment the police have in our purchasing it is not intended to micromanage the police

equipment budget or become experts ourselves in what is required for modern policing there are a

number of process and transparency discussions going on and we don't have to put we don't want to

put policymakers into a place where we are trying to be experts. That to me is

particularly informative and and made a lot of sense in why I was limited to only five minutes

of speaking time during that why I was not allowed like the ability to present PowerPoint slides that

I had worked meticulously to provide to not just inform not just provide transparency and educate

the council but also members of the public is a fear of information of what is like what

ultimately is shown within the annual activity reports that were reported and one of the things

that I particularly appreciated from members of council was that there were the

were substantive questions and like we were able to find based on just our initial analysis within

three weeks time of what you know of how this equipment is being used and whom it is primate

seems to be used against most often. This is an issue that affects every single person in the city

and many ways and is required and this is required by state law. In comparison during an earlier

consideration for council during that very same meeting to allow like they allow to property owner

to demolish a commercial building that is considered historic by members of the community. The owner

and the experts that were called up were allowed to speak as long as they needed taking up to 18

minutes before public testimony began but the chair of like of an appointed commission that is

that is tasked to be subject matter experts in this area was limited to five minutes and had to

fight for just even five more minutes of time to like to really speak on that. I think it's

important to note that they pointed out that with that like you know certain council members

pretty good in the council member vang and pointed out that without complete reasons or rationales

for the proposed acquisitions which based on the report amounts to over $96,000 we can't prop

like the council can't properly answer the questions of their constituents nor can we answer those

questions to the rest of our community members that we represent on this dius. We also pointed out

the missed opportunities to be more transparent including not including the our recommendations

in the city staff report as we as I had reached out to the city clerk's office multiple times

leading up to that meeting. It was also pointed out that the report shows that 53% of the people that

military equipment was used against were black yet the black population of the city is less than

12% and that people aged 24 and under were almost a third of the population who were targeted with

military equipment who experienced the use of military equipment. So like one of the quotes I got

this is supposed to be an opportunity for us to step back and have conversations about it and why

it is happening as commissioner Johnson spoke to eloquently. So that's one of the reasons we

like that's the reasons we have these questions these questions were built around getting more

transparency for to provide us and our community members better understanding of why this equipment

is necessary why the police department needs it to ensure not just their safety but also the safety

of civilians as is required under state law now. So I have a few questions directed to the city

manager's office and the police department who is unfortunately not attending this meeting or

this meeting today. What was the direction that you heard from city council on August 27th?

This item is a receive and file of the 2022 and 2023 formal responses that the police department

has submitted. I'm not going to review the council meeting here tonight. I will review the

testimony that you have given here tonight. I will try my best to reconcile if there's anything

missing. I will try my best to reconcile whatever information that you think is missing and I will

work with you on that to figure out what we can review. I know the main thing thrust of what I

got from that council meeting was that there are 2024 recommendations. It's not including this

report tonight and PD will be working on that. We'll be working through that. We'll be working

through the city attorney's office as well with that and also there's the audit that you mentioned

that's working on that's also going to be worked on. So there's those efforts are going to continue.

I think that that was the main thrust of those meetings that we're it's a continuous work in

progress to continue improving our our efforts. Editorial I will just mention that you know I know

that Sacramento PD was included as a benchmark city on its MEU policy and recommendations when

the LA auditor looked at their processes they use Sacramento PD as a benchmark city. So I think

we're moving in the right direction and I think we will continue to work along those lines to

continue to improve this and that to me is the overarching theme here is that it's a work in

progress we're going to continue to work with the commission as best as we can given the imperfections

of everything else to continue to improve the process. How do you propose we address city council's

direction regarding the MEU? Again not in my purview to advise the commission how to work with your

council and your council members that's not the item in here tonight. How do you propose we work

together with the police department? Again this is what this is why I'm here this is why I have

reached out I've tried to build those bridges with you and we'll continue to do that but again not

the purview of this item here tonight. I think it's a really valid question given the direction

that was received that we received from the council as well as the expectation that the police

department is to respond to these questions that were provided in writing and I want to note that

we haven't met with the police department liaisons since I believe is recently as I believe July

the first half of July was the last time we met prior to the July 22nd MEU meeting and we've

only met with you the first week of October or I'm sorry I'm September to discuss the October

meeting engagement meeting. The police department is the police department willing to meet with the

vice chair and I to discuss the council's direction and the responses to the 2022 and 2023

recommendations. Again I think we've set up by weekly meetings you either disconnected or hung

up on the last by weekly meeting but we can continue to try to put those together and continue to

work through those meetings. I have tried my best to create communication lines and to open up the

communication lines. Again I don't want to stray too far away from what this item is tonight.

This is the formal responses that PD is submitting on the 2022-23-23 recommendations and we are

going to continue to work on the other recommendations that were submitted.

I look forward to the responses that we get from the 2024 recommendations but one of the things that

I think is important to note is at the at previous by-weekly meetings we had discussed the responses

to previous recommendations such as 2018 and 2019 recommendations with the department of liaisons

and that was actually one of the most productive conversations we've had with the police department.

We were able to really ask direct questions, get direct responses around what informed their

implementation why they implemented parts and not others or why they denied outright.

I think the best way forward is to continue having those conversations but it can't just be with

the city manager's office none of whom are designated police officers. We need to actually meet

directly with the police department. That's why I'm asking that question. If the police department

willing to actually engage with the chair and I to have these conversations or are we again

back to where we started where they're disengaging from us? I will go out on a limb here and I will

say that the PD is willing to engage with the vice chair and any member of this commission.

Unfortunately you've asserted your first amendment right to make cultural statements that are

derogatory towards the police department and that does not build a conclusive atmosphere for

collaboration and working together but I will go out on a limb and say I think the PD would be

willing to meet with the vice chair and any member of this commission to work in a productive manner

moving forward. Commissioner Johnson. I don't want to get lost in the sauce. I just want to ask

two basic questions. Will the police department attend these meetings the way that they started to

come back in the last few meetings? That's really the bottom line. Either they're going to be

at the table and having these discussions and like I said sometimes it's uncomfortable on both sides

or they're not. You've heard many of them day before saying I've worked all kinds of negotiations

and mediations but I've never been able to do it with only one party at a table.

You know, yeah at this time I've been asked to be a liaison to the commission. I'm trying my best

to get you information that you need and to get the work moving forward and to support the

work plan that you have in front of you. I'll leave it at that. The only other thing I'll say to

that Mario is that I was at as you know I was there in the city of the opposite you in the audience

or unless I'm having a dizzy-vue moment I did hear the council say that police ought to be

represented at a police commission meeting and I've publicly as well as privately given a lot of

credit you know to the liaison's particularly you know you know Captain Buchanan and Lieutenant

Sarroski as being valued input to this commission on it and it really started when they returned

from what had been a long absence you know on it it was it bore fruit you know it opened up the

transparency between community and policing and we had good dialogue we don't always have to

agree I'm fine with that you know but you know you you you don't gain understanding on either side

without having those uncomfortable yet strategic conversations and so like I said

unless I had a dizzy-vue moment I heard city council say police should be represented at the

commission meetings and I noticed a conflict between Howard and and a mayor over several points

relative to this get past it this community is bigger than anybody's individual ego or agenda

you know get past it you know and if you have a problem with the chair you don't you know I'm okay with

that you know I can appreciate the sensitivity to that you get you referenced and there's members

here who have said the same thing about what's being what's depicted on on a laptop you know on it

and got a commitment that won't happen again you know you know kind of think so you know issue

raise issue met action taken move on you know move on you know we have got to be about the work

of how we're going to keep this community from becoming a powder cake again you know on which is

why this commission was formed on it and how we as we're continuing to grow as a community and as a

city how do we do that with a diverse on every scale diverse population of professionals and

residents as we get through this how do we make it work and you don't do that by not having dialogue

you know they have got to be here that was the city council direction that is the norm you know for

for staffing and I appreciate that once again for for you Mario that you're in a awkward position

between administration and police and this commission and the community I appreciate it and

there's certain things you can say certain things you can't say I can say any damn thing because $50

for God damn meeting don't mean nothing to me okay you know how did it ain't about that you know

it's about this community this city and how do we make it better you know I don't want to see

another accident happen you know that was avoidable you know on it on either side you know on it

and there are actions and thoughts and dialogue that haps to take place that will improve it for

all players in this and so once again I'm just going to publicly again you know I'm going to almost

damn demand you know that police be here at the table to have that dialogue and I have a high

respect you know for the liaison as I said earlier that have been here both professionally and

personally you know on it and we made progress as as Commissioner Costilla Kriegs you know

reference we have made solid progress on a number of areas don't flush the baby with the bath water

you know don't let an angst with one member of this commission there's 12 of us here you know

drive the agenda and the liaisons between this commission and the city at management and the city

council we all got to be picking in that thank you

are there any other commissioners who wish to give comment on the item

this is just a receiving file so there's no vote to be taken

there's a lot I could say in this moment of you know being at the

towards the end of my first term here

yes please um outside looking in I think that there are several stressors that have been expressed

this evening one of which primary the primary of which I would say is probably the commission's

relationship with the city council obviously and I understand the frustration yes I agree with you yes

the commissions that have been convened by the city council for the purposes of convening expertise

around an issue should be listened to there should be given equal credibility with

um with in our case the police we shouldn't have to fight for time that should be a discussion

I agree with you I also agree with you that the police need to be here at the meeting I do

and I think you're right frankly it's it's unprofessional and petty that our police who

are professionals are making an issue out of one person's behavior I would expect more frankly

I mean let's face it you're not going to like everybody in the room that's a that's the reality of

of of any situation in which you're working that being the case however um Mr. Larr is here to

speak to one issue that's what he's authorized to speak to and we can lecture him all night long

but and he's going to sit there and he's going to nod thoughtfully as he should

and then he's going to take all of this back to his boss all of this is being recorded

and possibly if we're lucky the city council pay to pay attention to this meeting probably what

they should not hear in advance of us asking them for a meeting is about all the ways that they have

failed us maybe we need to start off from the point standpoint of neutrality

maybe we need not point fingers at the city manager's office or the police or the city council maybe

we want to just calm it down figure out what you want to ask the city council for have that discussion

first take everything that you can get from from from your wish list that they're willing to give you

and move forward from that point because frankly right now it doesn't sound like these discussions

um are very productive for what this commission is trying to accomplish and what you're trying to

move forward so um I'll close my comments with that uh I don't mean to tell anybody how to do their

business and I certainly don't mean to invalidate your feelings around or your frustrations around

how the commission is operating in the context of the city right now but please take a deep breath

you guys are right this commission is valuable to the city valuable to the people of this community

but we can only be valuable if we're effective and we've got to learn to do that

so I'll close with that thanks everyone

I really appreciate uh your thoughtful and deliberative comments uh commissioner Smith

as well as you commissioner johnson um all I can add was that I am I remain willing to

engage with the department with the city manager's office as well as city council every city council member

from the mayor to uh to the individual council member district one district eight um

ink me a dialogue I'll continue to do that uh as long as I am on this commission and I think it's

critical that we do so believe it or not I was going to say that uh I consider uh our liaisons

that we had met with particularly lieutenant shirayashi to be men of integrity engaging in good faith

I don't know what like I have a good idea of what motivates it but I'm going to withhold on that

and put that aside in order for us to have that conversation uh with the people with uh with power and direction

so with that uh we can move forward uh that was the last item that I we there's no vote so this is

just to perceive and file uh the next item is staff and commissioner comments ideas questions uh

and uh meeting conference reports uh is anybody are there any commissioners who wish to speak

um

commissioner kastiel cranks

I just want to say thank you to everybody who has been speaking tonight

I think there's a couple of points obviously that have been highlighted but I think the

really want to highlight and I think this kind of stem from also last um the last meeting that we had

at the end of the day all of us are trying to kind of make a difference in the city and the

community we live in and I think it's really important for us to remember that when we come into

official spaces representing or wearing our commissioner hat we're not just representing the

views that we individually have we are trying to uplift members of the community and really

trying to create a space that is safe for everybody to be in and participate even if we disagree

I think in fact that's in the disagreement is where we can actually find more growth and we can

find ways of challenging our own views and our own understanding of the world but I think it's

also important what we ask of others that we do it ourselves if we ask police to show up in

community meeting without uniform because it's in a signal I say the same thing and I was going to

bring this up in our own um kind of just we have our well we used to have our own rules and we can

no longer have that but I really wanted to kind of bring this up and I feel like there's a common theme

in tonight's meeting about we just need to kind of treat each other with more respect and more

thoughtfully in order for us to be able to have a place where we can have really difficult conversations

it doesn't mean that we have to agree with everybody it doesn't mean that we always have to kind of

leave the room saying kumbaya but what we have to be able to do is listen to each other deeply

and be able to even if we disagree have that level of respect in order for us to mimic progress

and I think it was I just needed to highlight that because if we are going to ask PD to come back

if we are going to basically ask council to work with us then there has to be like we have to

reset the conversation I think that's that continues to be consistent throughout and it doesn't

mean that we kind of leave our professional selves at the door it doesn't mean that I'm not you

know I don't lobby doesn't mean that we don't advocate doesn't mean it just basically says when

we are entering spaces where I'm wearing my commissioner hat I have a certain responsibility

that I have raised my hand to say I will do this for my community and it's just important for us to

kind of remember that and remember how members we're asking members of the public it's important

for them to feel comfortable even if we disagree and I think it was really helpful to see members

of the community that we don't always agree with look at the body that is here listen to what we

were saying and say oh you guys are actually really thoughtful individuals I did not expect this

to happen so just want to kind of bring that up because I think I left last meeting just feeling

very uncomfortable and it just but it also led to moments of reflection and I think that's

important so thank you I appreciate you any on that note and I to that meeting last time

and that was comfort I wanted to one thing that I neglected to mention in mentioning or in my

response to around the sticker controversy is that I conveyed to city council members as well

as the department that my laptop is covered as is right now going forward as long as I'm serving

around the commission sticker shouldn't matter like shouldn't matter but for some people it does

and I had already expressed before that I understand and appreciate the outrage from people who

don't understand my culture or the expressions from my culture and I'll continue to help to educate

as well as engage people within that in all things and make sure that we can continue to have this

dialogue which I and committed to do as long as I'm on this body with that any other commissioners

before me or before me join can I just and can I just say when I'll be brief that I just want to

remind people what is the land acknowledgement mean to us and I think I said at the very end

how we treat each other is is for me the land acknowledgement is just not a repetition of great

sounding words but how we work with each other and treat each other and I want to thank everybody

for all your comments all your wisdom I think that's very important for us to hear from all of us

Mr. Lada thank you so much for always being here and it's tough I know but I also want to acknowledge

that the police department every year for the last five years have delivered jackets coats boots

to our children are very low income our native community and then Latino fire worker community

in North Sacramento so I want to acknowledge some of the good that's done out as well so I really

encourage them to join us back in this conversation thank you thank you everyone the commissioners

all right on the question is spoke tonight with that meeting adjourned