Good evening everyone. Welcome to the November 4th 2024 Sacramento Community Police Review Commission meeting. This meeting is now called to order. Will the clerk please call the roll to establish

court. Thank you chair commissioners if you could please unmute your microphones commissioner sample commissioner J Johnson

Commissioner Z Johnson is currently absent commissioner Carter Martinez is currently absent Vice Chair Bill and Roestrel

Commissioner Griggs your commissioner Landeros present commissioner Smith your commissioner Castillo crings

your commissioner Salazar here and chair Bliss

here thank you we have Quorum. Thank you all I would like to remind members of the public and chambers that if you would like to speak on a

agenda item please turn in a speaker slip when the item begins to provide greater trans greater community participation

our commissions work we will also allow for more time for members of the public to give comments and we'll ask the clerk to accept

speaker slips until the final speaker has concluded their comments. For matters not on the agenda you will have five minutes to

speak once your name is called and for matters listed on the agenda you will also have five minutes to speak once you

are called upon additionally we will also allow for you to wish for you to share written or visual

documentation so do you choose by utilizing the overhead projector for this meeting possible. That is not

available for the public. Okay then we will now proceed with today's agenda please stand for the

opening of the public. I will turn it over to Commissioner Landeros.

To the original people of this land the knees and on people the southern Maidu and the planes

Miwa the wind wind to peoples and the people of Wilson Ranch area Sacramento's only

federal new recognized tribe may we acknowledge and honor the native people who came before us and

still walk beside us today on these ancestral lands by choosing together together today in the

active particip practice of acknowledgement and appreciation for Sacramento's indigenous peoples history

contributions and lives thank you miss not forget today's November is named of American history map.

Thank you Commissioner and with that I will turn it over to the vice chair to read the pledge

of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands

one nation and under God the indigenous will liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Our first I would like to just note that there have been several I would like to

actually open it up for the city assistant city manager and the police department to introduce

our newest liaison to the commission. Thank you. Good evening commission members.

Mario Lara assistant city manager I would like to take an opportunity to introduce Blake Norton

who is chief strategy officer with police department that's a new position that was recently

created and filled. Blake is a civilian who carries the rank of the equivalent rank of deputy

chief within the department and she comes with extensive law enforcement background but I'll have

her introduce herself and talk to you a little bit about the experiences she brings over the next

couple of meetings. Blake will be transitioning into the role of liaison to the commission. Thank you.

Good evening commissioners. My name is Blake Norton. I'm the chief strategy officer at the

Sacramento police department. I have been in law enforcement since 1988 where I started my career

at the Boston police department and I worked on youth engagement strategies, community policing,

and violence reduction. I then had the opportunity to leave Boston and go to Washington D.C.

to work for the justice the council of state governments justice center where I worked on local

government and police work doing criminal justice reform and then I worked for the national

policing institute where I did a fair amount of work on organizational excellence and police

and reform oversight in cities like Baltimore, North Charleston. I did a fair amount of work

across the country looking at police practice and police policy and then I joined the Philadelphia

police department in April of 2020 and spent four and a half years there as the chief strategy officer

overseeing best practices, evidence-based strategies and police reform initiatives and then about

14 weeks ago I moved to the city of Sacramento and I am now working in the office of strategy

and compliance and I'm responsible for internal compliance on making sure that our operations align

with legislative mandates looking at best practices and risk management. Thank you. It's a pleasure

to be here. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Norton and Assistant City Manager for joining us with

this. I am hoping that this will be a a fresh start in terms of continue in terms of our collaboration

between the police department and the Sacramento Feast Rear Commission. It's important to acknowledge

that there have been several frustrations that we have dealt with over the years but

being that you are new and entering into this role for the first time I'm prepared to give you

the benefit of the doubt and I hope and encourage other commissioners to do the same and look forward

productive engagement with you going forward. Thank you. With that before we jump into our agenda as

well I'd like to give recognition and of the dedication service to members of the committee

police review commission. Several of you who are reaching your term limits and may or may not

continue on so just wanting to acknowledge the as we enter in our term limits which include

include myself just to acknowledge particularly commissioners on well Ben Rostro,

Commissioner Castillo Castillo Crenes who was reaching the end of her term limits. Commissioner

Jay Johnson for your first term here and Commissioner Landeros, Commissioner Smith and

wishing you all including myself a well like happiness and well wishes as you go forward and

hopefully some of you will continue to stick around. There are certain changes that have been made

to the police review commissions through the commissions and boards under chapter 2.40 that actually

allow for members who have yet to receive an appointment or being really appointed yet to continue

serving on should they choose at the end of this year. So if you so wish to stay on some of you

or welcome to continue but I'm just wanting to thank you all for our decision. Thank you all

for your dedication and work in this commission. Thank you chair for that introduction. Jacob Redberg

office of the city clerk. As this is the last regular scheduled meeting before your current term

expires the office of the city clerk would like to extend our sincerest gratitude for your service

on the community police review commission. Some of you were appointed to a short partial term.

Others have been here for quite some time. Whatever the case is your service has been invaluable to

this commission as well as the city of Sacramento. So I'm going to hand you a certificate of service

on if anyone would like to say a few words about their their most recent term on this commission.

Please feel free to do so.

As we're doing that I'd also like to turn over to Commissioner Castillo Krings.

Hi everyone and I just wanted to say thank you. I know it sometimes has been contentious and we

spent a lot of time but just really wanted to say thank you to also the city staff. Jacob you've

been kind of hanging out with us and spending a lot of time really do appreciate it a lot of the

staff work goes unnoticed but we do see the amount of work because at the end of the day the city

does not work without its public servants. So I wanted to say thank you and thank you for all

the guidance that you have provided throughout the years and really appreciate the opportunity to

serve and work with all of you and learn from you. So thank you so much.

Thank you. Commissioner Castillo Krings and I want to thank you as well Jacob for your

continued dedication and work on this commission. Thank you both.

All right with that we will now proceed into the consent calendar our first business of the day.

Oh actually I'm sorry our first business of the day is actually public comment matters not on

the agenda. As a reminder for the members of the public you will have five minutes to speak on

this item. Clerk are there any members of the public who wish to speak on matters on the agenda?

Thank you chair. I do have one speaker slip Mr. Kai on.

We've been able to commission our name is Kai on. I'm here again for my brother's case.

After last meeting I sent an email to OPEC and SPD internal affairs divisions to get the

update of the investigation of the fake document that I get from SPD. However I never we see

any response. Well I had never been contacted by both of us so I wonder if the commission can help

me to contact those two office to get the update of my investigation of the fake defendant that

I have no additional speakers. Just a response to the previous speaker. I appreciate your

continuing to push forward this case for your family and I apologize that we have not been able to

be able to take action. Unfortunately the police review commission has been made clear by the

city council and city management that we are an advisory body and we don't have direct oversight

over the individual personnel complaints or investigations. However I did want to ask and

you're welcome to come back to the podium if you want to if you choose to answer this. No

question is have you attempted to reach out to private legal to any private legal defense councils

or work with any legal clinics about your case. No. I would consider and welcome other commissioners

if you have recommendations. There are I believe regular legal clinics through the George

School of Law over at the local university over in Oak Park would encourage you to reach out

with them and consult with private legal defense if at all possible and maybe even looking to the

state of the California's Office of Civil Rights I believe as well. No I ran there people.

I ran the meeting no response. I even submitted letter to one of the the civil by department

a council member that is the professor of Berkeley Law School. I ran the Berkeley before so no response.

I'm sorry that you haven't yet gotten a response miss you deserve a meaningful response and

conclusion regarding your father's case and I you're more welcome to continue coming in and

hope that you that you can are able to find the support you need. Okay thank you so much thank you

Commissioner thank you. Thank you. On our next business of today is the consent calendar which

includes approval of the community police review commissions meetings minutes for September 30th

2024. Do I as a reminder for the members of the public you also have five minutes to speak on

these items. Clerk are there any members of the public wish to speak on the consent calendar?

Thank you chair I have no speakers. Thank you clerk are there any commissioners who wish to speak

on the consent calendar and is there a second and a motion and a second for the consent calendar.

I see a motion by commissioner Wayne Johnson and second by commissioner Greg's.

I will clerk please call the roll. Thank you chair commissioners if you can please unmute your

microphones. Commissioner Sample. I commissioner Jay Johnson. I commissioner Z Johnson. I

commissioner Carter Martinez is absent. Vice Chair Boen Roestrow. I'm Steve.

Commissioner Griggs. I Commissioner Landeros. I Commissioner Smith. I Commissioner Castillo

Crings. I Commissioner Salazar is currently absent and chair bliss. Yes. Thank you the motion passes.

Thank you all we will now proceed to the discussion calendar. Item two is discussion on the

Sacramento Community Police Review Commission's 2025 work plan and topics. The recommendation today we

are here to discuss and provide feedback for myself and the vice chair as we work to draft a final

version of the work plan so that which we intend to finalize and approve at a special meeting

that will be scheduled for next month during our usual meeting time which is December 9th at 5.30 p.m.

And this is an opportunity for you all to more meaningfully participate based on recent changes

that have been made to the Sacramento City Code chapter 2.40 regarding city boards committees

and commissions. For those who didn't know city council approved those changes on September 24th

2024 and we are once again allowed to form ad hoc committees within our commission and they do not

require city staff to administer. So since most of you have joined this commission before we had

ad hoc committees available we typically had commissioners propose ideas for specific work topic

areas to research and study and then commissioners were invited to join those respective ad hoc

commissions committees under the person that initially proposed that topic idea or what not who

would serve as the chair for that committee. Just so you all know that those committees are still

subject to the Brown Act as well as other city administrative policies however you are

allowed to meet with anything less than a core of commissioners and you are free to schedule

and give updates on a regular basis to that which we were previously giving periodic updates on

standing agenda items or on our standing meeting agenda so that members of the public could know

how the progress was going for our respective ad hoc and members and other commissioners could

give thoughts and feedback based on any pressing topics or questions that were coming up from that.

In addition to ad hoc committees commissions are also allowed to still form subcommittees which

are established by approval of the personnel and public employees committee. The commission

chair would appoint subcommittee members and the clerk would assign staff for that and these would

have to be public meetings however commissioners would be allowed to attend those meetings so long as

they are non-speaking observer and sit among members of the public. So that's important to recognize

some additional changes that are relevant to everybody that's going to be continuing on is that

commissioners across the board are now allowed up to three absences during the calendar year,

not a rolling calendar year but the standard calendar year that city council sets and some new

conditions apply upon our third absence the city clerk must send a written notice in

consult with our appointing council members for four commencing with any removal process

which will give us much more notice to correct any absences for whatever reason and also

consult with our council members. And also an absence is more clearly specified as a failing to

attend the majority of a meetings duration so given that I believe our meetings are two hours,

two and a half hours the as long as you are here for a majority of the meetings duration it will

not count against your absent record. And another thing to note as well I mentioned it earlier which

was seated commissioners may continue to serve until they are reappointed or a successor is appointed

by city council. Commissioners must be a resident of the city of Sacramento of course in our

typical qualifications for this commission still apply but as long as you remain residents for

the entirety of your term you can serve on this commission and continue to serve on until

your appointing city council member or their replacement finds a successor for you or you are reappointed.

With that I just to note we per the agenda documents that were shared out prior to this meeting.

We have a few proposed goals but these are very much still fluid. To be honest we haven't really

been able to accomplish much in terms of meaningful collaboration with the department around a lot

of these work topics beyond the military equipment use policy and we one of our initial goals from

this year was to have this joint workshop between the full city council and the police review

commission which to date we still have yet to schedule meantime and we have no expectation that

this will be scheduled in the foreseeable future especially given that the current council is

outgoing and there will be a new mayor and several council members taking office who did not

we're not part of this conversation. So just a quick overview of the goals just

hierarchy is the first and foremost that the vice chair and I thought was the most important

to address in the coming year is the existing efficiencies that were identified by the city auditors

report when it audited our commission including but not limited to improving our inner workings

and clarifying the purpose powers and duties of our commission as well as hosting as having this

joint workshop not to mention to addressing the relationship of cooperation between the police

review commission the police department and the office of public safety accountability and city

council over the past years the relationship with the police department has been inconsistent and

including our relationship with the council and the conduct of the city charter officers have been

less than professional in my opinion. So with that that's one of the key things that we want to

address in this beginning of the year the number two being ensuring timely responses to all

outstanding recommendations and clearing up the backlog as well as engaging the community members

in organizing up to three community engagement forums and stakeholder meetings based on the

public safety topics we identify for this work plan. I want to turn over to the vice chair if you

have anything you wish to add or anything that I'm missing from this conversation.

Sure I mean I think I just want to recall what is attention to the three broad goals like it's

I guess you can think about them as themes for 2025. I think it makes sense in terms of or

number one goal just being to improve the workings of the commission something within that that

I think is important for us to discuss with the new whoever the new mayor is or the new council

would be making sure that we think about what resources we might need us to commission and obviously

that's a council decision so that we can work effectively. I think that's all baked into the

conversations that we could have with whoever is a new mayor after this year.

And then lastly number three I think that's something for us to

plan out a little bit more so that's that's the three community engagement forums. I think

there's still a desire for this commission to be a conduit to the community.

Clearly there's one that we do every year that is the MEU policy one mandated by assembly bill

481 but then we're proposing doing two additional workshops during the year. So something for us

to think about is are these right topics do we want to think about other topics I think three is

a good number for I think we're saying up to three so obviously we do one or two it's still

within the work plan but I think we want to be strategic about what topics we want to cover and

how we space them out during the year. So I guess with that I would just invite conversation on

the three general goals or three general themes that we're proposing here and see if we can get

some direction on how to make them more specific and make them meet the direction that we get today.

Thank you Vice Chair. Before we jump into Commissioner discussion I want to check with the clerk

for invite members of the public who wish to get public comment on this item as a reminder you'll

have five minutes to speak on discussion calendar items. Clerk are there any members of the

public who wish to speak on this? Thank you Chair I have no speaker slips.

Thank you Clerk are there any commissioners who wish to speak on the 2025 work plan topics

priorities.

Commissioner Castillo-Krins. I really appreciate the work that has gone into this I think that kind

of reflects the conversation we had just two months ago now and I think that this is a good

work plan I think that there's going to be a little uncertainty until we kind of have you know

what's going to happen in terms of the appointments for this body the appointments for or who gets

elected to come in but I think that this is a good starting point for whoever come for the next

commission to kind of really take this and really work and collaborate I think with City Council

to figure out how do we make this body continue to function well and kind of keep building on the

work that this body has already done so thank you so much for the work I know that putting the

documents together and a thoughtful plan is not easy so thank you for all the hours that have gone in.

Thank you Commissioner Castillo-Krins.

Commissioner Jay Johnson.

As I was thinking about it knowing that we're coming into a new about to come into a new term of

officers for a city it seems viable that we as commissioners might have to take the time out to

talk to our own council and sit down with them because you know we face a backlog every year is

building up so we might we'll see if they have anyone on their incoming team that might

will sit with us so that we could probably clear up some understanding that backlogs about time

they hit council they have a pretty good idea of what you know we're really looking for and

and then with that goal in mind it makes it easier for us to get to talk with each other and kind

of smooth it out to where we start loosening out of this backlog that we have because I think

what it is like for me with ours has been since we had a temporary council in there for the last

last six months or more in there and transition has not been you know a clear time to sit down with

anybody and talk to somebody's but so that's what created backlog I know in far district

it's coming and being a part of it having something to say about it so I think it's it's like

that all over I think it's with all of us that way and I think we just probably got to come to

area where it might take a couple hours of a day in our day to come down and say hey let's talk

or like some of our council people there in our own neighborhood in our district hey stop it

have a couple coffee let's talk about this because we got to come to some sort of solution you know

and I come across a lot of the police officers in my district a lot and sometimes we talk and you

know but this thing about is that we have to have some type of dialogue that comes back to not only

that are representatives but comes back to you all of where we're going and what we're doing so

somehow we've got to kind of put forth our own effort in the coming year especially with this new

group coming in because they got to be so backlog with their agenda what they want to do

and but we yet have a job to do ourselves

appreciate that comment commissioner Jay Johnson I I couldn't agree more that we need to be having

these conversations in the beginning of the year with our respective council members last

meeting for folks if folks remember I requested that we try to each meet with our council member

if possible see if we can get a standing conversation going I can only speak for myself in

noting that I have I have high hopes for I have some hope at least for the incoming council that maybe

we can reset the current like the relationship with it but as it stands right now I don't think it

has been a matter of our in a like our unrelielness or lack of capacity to communicate with council it's

been a refusal by council to really engage with us for those who don't know I believe I actually

mentioned this a couple of meetings ago as well I've reached out we've reached out the

advice there and I've reached out multiple times about this joint workshop we have given multiple

comments on it over the like over the last year and for and early and in writing and have received

no responses as of yet in fact it feels as though based on my own personal experience

representing his chair that the the several members of city council particularly this

mayor has no respect whatsoever for the work that we're doing and doesn't and unless this the

culture of city council really changes I don't see much change happening on this commission which

is led to a couple of the recommendations which are included in the agenda packet we still have

two years that have yet we have yet to produce to even present our recommendations to on council

2021 and 2022 and we still don't have a consistent process for even what comes about those

and unless we actually get that this joint workshop happening to really address these deficiencies

it's going to be more the same we're going to continue spending our wheels and it's going to be

even harder for me and personally but even some of you all I think we're going to continue on

to think what what is the point of actually serving on this um commissioner or vice chair

Abin Rostro yeah I mean I I don't want to assume intent and what happens I think it's important

for us to just state the facts the fact is that the joint workshop didn't happen for whatever

reason it could be that the council was busy they had other things to work on but it didn't happen

so I think that's why it needs to be a priority for 2025 and not it's not that it needs to be

the joint workshop per se it's that the conversations need to happen with council about how we can

improve the workings and how we can improve uh what the expectations for how we work more efficiently

and that probably includes conversations with the police department as well to get their feedback

on what it is that we need to to work better um but I think I just want to go back to

making sure that we get your feedback today because I want to make sure that as we draft this that

it's not just the work plan that me and the chair come up with but that it's a work plan that

does include feedback from the commissioners so I guess a broad question is are these right goals

and objectives um or the right themes and if they are um what specificity within them you would

like to see for 2025 I know some of I know a lot of us are trimming out but assume that you

would be here next year um what did it what is it that you think the commission should be working on

in 2025 and prioritize

um

Commissioner uh John Johnson um just going back just a little bit um because I'm still

that type of person that believes that something can still be worked out I I think that

we try to do as a commission especially doing our workshops and I I know I attended the one

that we had during the summer um that I think we're on to a good thing um having our workshops and

and conducting our workshops with um the police department um but I think there's a way that

possibly like you said don't don't give up don't give up um keep kind of pushing

everything whatever number we have to keep pushing in the direction of what our goal is and

what I need to be is and then make sure that we always have the back of the police department

with us to carry it through and if we could just start the year off um and maybe schedule

a early spring workshop you know to kind of put it in gear so by the time we start off at least

we kick it off the year off with something in mind of where we need to go and they know we're pushing

them to do you couldn't do anything in the fall for us or toward the fall for us meet with us

but how about now you're going to first start get us on your calendar put us down for that one day

just to meet us with the workshop and come together with us and I think if we just keep pushing that

like I said you just get two of them out you've got a good start

uh commissioner Castillo brings one of the only things that I think would be helpful for this

document and again I'm thinking of moving forward if a new commissioner picks that picks up

the document that they're able to fully understand what the intent was and so one of the things that

might be helpful would be to flesh out a little bit of the workshops um I know we had a pretty

lengthy discussion about narrowing it down to three and then within those buckets when we talk

about the traffic safety enforcement what exactly does that capture because that could be such broad

umbrella um and the same thing goes with the SPD community engagement programs I really I think the

reason that it to me is such an important one is because that comes directly from the community

engagement forums that we had where people were really uplifting some of the programs that they

experienced in their community that really changed the dynamics between community and policing

and so I think highlighting that and making clear like this is where it comes from this is what

we're hoping to achieve would be helpful because again three months from now when a new commissioner

picks this up I think without that context it could be anything right and I think that the context

is really important again it's something I think that the community highlighted and I would hate for

us to lose it I agree with that I agree with I really remembering what community members had

requested within as we consider that work plan and it brought to mind to the last conversation

that we had with the police department meeting Ms. Norton last week was in terms of what to seek what

the police department would like to see within the work plan they would like more specificity

the more specificity the better and having at least a more narrow scope which one of the to that

ends one of the topic areas that we discussed around community policing and response efficiency I

think that be worth its own ad hoc would be traffic safety enforcement in particular given the ongoing

the ongoing crisis that we're dealing with with the number of pedestrian fatalities exceeding the

number of homicides for the last year and continue and Sacramento continuing to be one of the

worst cities to drive in by the numbers in terms of pedestrian injuries and vehicle collisions I think

that is a good work topic area and could be something in addition to areas like

mental health crisis response or non emergency responses too but that was one thing that I would like

to I was thinking that would be good to narrow down under community rather than community policing

response efficiency traffic safety enforcement commissioner sample yes so first of all great work on

on pulling all this together I definitely agree with number one especially as we potentially

will have new commissioners just kind of looking at clarifying the purpose it's almost like let's just

get clarity so I like I like that my question is on number two I I understand I've been around for

a little bit I understand the reason why we want to clear up the backlog but as a new group comes in

is it worth it to maybe first have the commission review the backlog and reprioritize it and almost

kind of say here's a new backlog but I don't call it a backlog but here is the ones that we really

want to now start moving forward and it's almost like giving everybody a semi clean slate just to be

able to say here are the priorities because I think it's going to just continue to build on the

next groups frustration of we're still trying to clear things from 21 22 23 24 let's just get a

25 list here is the things that we want to move forward off of the one two three and four backlogs

and just collaboratively start moving forward that would just be my feedback

that's the solid suggestion commissioners sample and one that our we have in previous years

done last time being in 2023 actually yeah it was 2023 I believe when we actually had

an implementation ad hoc where we had gone through the previous backlog compiled them into a single

into a single document in order to just showcase you know this is the work that we had and then

we've also provided priority like we've also prioritized certain sets of red

red recommendations such as the military equipment use conversation and I think some of

our 2023 recommendations and that could actually be one of the recommendations we propose and maybe

even prioritize these are the like you know start with had the count we recommend the council

start with the recommendations which each commissioner considers to be their priority so that

might be something that I that all of us be thinking about going into our December meeting

vice chair Bernlostra continue the conversation that commissioner sample brought up

because it does seem coming into the commission we have we have the backlog it it feels like it

becomes overwhelming in a way and it feels like it's a big weight on the commission are you

proposing that I mean could this be a work group that works on the reviews the backlog over the

next month and maybe proposes out of the backlog here are the top recommendations that we want to

move forward for this work plan and is there intent that then the the backlog this is maybe not

completely ignored but it's maybe it refocuses what yeah I would say it's a refocusing but it has

to go hand in hand with the letter C of your of the to see which then we need to create a clear

consistent process for what it looks like moving forward so it's almost like we're going to clear

what's back there reprioritize it but now we have a process for how we don't get to this place

anymore just a direct response to just a note for the record that you know right now the we

have gotten responses from like for 2018 2019 and 2020 responses so what's still standing of course 2021

2022 and 2023 responses apart from military equipment use recommendations I think that could

one of the things I wanted to do with the joint workshop was actually to discuss some of this

backlog and be able to figure out that process which is why I think we we had set the timeline

being that the joint workshop be at the fort like first and foremost at the beginning of the year

the first our first set of work because that's going to determine the rest like the remaining

portion of the year and I think maybe even if we can't get it by the end of this year

having that prepared like you know the commissioners are going to be continuing on having that prepared

going into that joint workshop will still be super helpful and important I think when we talk

about it with council. I see Johnson. Yeah sorry I had to run out just still on the red coffee.

I was going to take up

the commission and say that you know to to my mind this is a year of restart the city of

administration is restarting you know on it with the election of a new mayor the relationship

that that new mayor and new council will have with the city manager and then and then in turn

with with the relationship between SPD and this commission and the city is going to be so so

it's all in flux right now it would seem that and we've had some recent additions to this

commission already you know on it with one or two more potentially coming you know on it it

might be good if we if we had our own workshop discussion you know to kind of you know get

everyone up to speed clearly in terms of what what led to these items you know be being proposed

why why they're still what what they're still standing outstanding I should say

on it and then soliciting the newer members input to that I know as an and when I came in you know

on to this commission there was a lot of work already done and more and flow and so it's like

you're running running and treading water at the same time trying to get up to speed and understand

what the hell went down because there was never an opportunity to kind of stand in place and say

tell us how to help you you know on it so I so I think that's a little bit missing and that's not a

an attack on on any prior or current you know chair you know that's something that happens

all to often or all committees you know when you got new people coming in you know on it but you

kind of get lost in the sauce and and you as new as members if you think I'm speaking out of my

ear you know tell me you know so again it may be worth whether it's a subcommittee of the

the newer members and and and the chair or vice chair or or or one of the chairs and some other

senior court on quote senior members even though now 73 I'm not only senior citizenship yet you

know on it sitting down and kind of walking through and getting getting you know current

on the wares and the wise and what we're proposing and then from there as we refer if we

we if we need to make any refinements on it we do it and then we need to present a

for lack of a better term an executive summary if you will they could go to the

city clerk and the city council members you know they kind of summarizes what are the

are what are our big themes and why do we feel it you know or what do we hear from our community

relative to those things you know to kind of get them up to speed and then and then lastly as

as you must have shared you know alluded to and and several of us have spoken to before

there is an encompassing on every member of this of this commission to be going back and having

ongoing conversation with the council member that appointed you so that they're not feeling so

there just doesn't become a cult of of personality you know this is about what the absolute best

functioning of this commission and the frustration on being felt by commissioners as well as the

communities that we represent you know so so we need to flip that focus you know to it

it's you know we're we're trying to be of service that's what it is you know and understand

on both sides of the equation whether it's the administration or this committee commission

we're both in that mindset of how do we increase effectiveness of the city and city governance

a la SPD in this particular case you know on it but but again a goal of how do we improve and you

don't never improve without having some difficult conversations being difficult doesn't mean you

you have to be dislikable as we go through it okay commissioner Castillo

commissioner Castillo cranks

some of the comments that are being made I think they really are resonating it's going to be a new year

I mean some having done some of the work on the on the backlog there are some recommendations that

should be refreshed right state law has changed policies has to have shifted in since we started

this process to now and maybe it is time for us to say okay what we need from the city is to create

a clear process by which the commission can function and how we actually collaborate and

communicate with city council directly to figure out here are our recommendations how do we move

forward I think we still have an ongoing thread from all of the work in the last couple of years

which is MEU right and how do we actually build on that process how what I feel like this

past session was an improvement on the first one so how do we continue to use MEU as what we built

upon and kind of start over with some of the work that has to happen and being for example even

the community engagement programs because I think to what commissioner sample said otherwise I

feel we are kind of saddling the new commission with things that have to be related gated and to be

honest the other question is given how limited our time is how do we best serve the community how

do we put a reset to best serve and make sure that the processes that are in place continue to

get better so for me that would be me you how do we continue to go back to the underpinning of

this commission which is how do we improve the communication that currently exists between

our police department and the community right and so to me the work that should be done with which

we have not had an opportunity to do just because again our time is limited in what our focus is

going to be to me one of my regrets about leaving this commission is we didn't get to work on

the community engagement part right we heard from because to me that's that came up that was what

the community asked for and that's what we should be our work should be reflecting and so it might

be time for us to say you know what okay let's push a restart button we're going to have new

officials coming in we have a new process with the city how do we actually become a more efficient

and effective commission and they might be letting go of some of the things that haven't worked

and let's try to create a new process that and if that becomes our focus or ask the city council

to say look lesson learned we need it clear kind of outline that tells us what you will expect of

us and how we need to engage with you and if that is the only thing that gets done next year

to me that's a huge win because we have not been able to get that done and in a way that also

continues to build on lessons learned right that's what the auditor talked about a couple of years ago

so I just want to say thank you commission or sample I think that's the right approach and that

would be actually where I think we should focus on vice chairman rostra yeah the the question I

have is what how do we how do we do that what's the best process to maybe prioritize the backlog and

simplify it for the next commission is that or is that something that we give to the that we put

in the work plan like I mean what one option is we give it forward to you know we we give the new

commissioners the recommendations and maybe in the first quarter they set up an ad hoc and they

they go over them and they prioritize the ones that they think are the most important I would

actually suggest because remember the commission is actually supposed to put together an annual plan

that we provide to the city council I think as part of that annual plan and part of our 2025 we're

saying okay we tried this this is as far as we gotten on the recommendations from 2018 to now

our main focus and what we would recommend the upcoming commission to do is to create a process to

basically follow up on the the commission meeting that we were supposed to have with city council

that should be our number one priority because to me it's addressing the work plan number one

and everything else we can actually put it we should put it in the annual report so that

commissioners that want to dig into it it's there as part of the public record but I think I

think it might be us letting it go right let's put it all as part of the annual report make sure

we have all that documentation and then we're going to say our main focus is going to be 2025

kind of the goals laid out here and then improving on the MEU process everything else because think

about the number of hours that we have spent talking to PD right and we can continue that same

cycle or we can decide to say that's no no no longer working so why don't we actually start

again our our recommendation to the city is our number one priority is number one if you can

provide that direction to us that will then help everything else that will help the MEU process

that will help some of the other work that we want to do I just think it refocuses us and allows us

gives us a little more freedom and flexibility to do some other work that I think we want to continue

to do that would be my suggestion that would be part of the recommendation that goes to the annual

plan or companies the annual plan good I just re I just want to try and understand or

rephrase it in my understanding so the recommendation I hear from Graciela from sorry commissioner

Cassio Crings is let go of the previous recommendations from maybe 2023 and before

yeah I would actually say let go of let go of number two altogether in the work plan

okay it's on number one and number three

but we put it in the report as you know here's just a summary of what happened in the previous

years correct yes the question I have is do we because we do have there are we're going to discuss

2024 recommendations do those go under that bucket or do we want to start I mean you want to

focus on those and the 2024 recommendations really as the MEU right are there other recommendations

outside of the MEU that we would be suggesting as a body to for this year yes there are at least five

in the respective areas that I like to propose but offer and are open to additional changes but

one of those being the joint workshop is one of the recommendations that we have or the right and

but the joint workshop is number one right and so that what that's what I'm saying is there's a joint

workshop which is really hey how do we work together which is number one and what I what I am

suggesting is basically as our our 2025 work plan have number one and number three and for number

two lay out kind of what we are deciding as a body to do saying we understand that there has been a

backlog that has created a lot of consternation and conflict here's kind of the recommendations how

far in the here's the work that we have done up until now we're willing to kind of let that go

but again part of all of this would be part of the public product public record and then really

focus on number one and three that would be I think the suggestion but a for discussion

just I wanted to chime in on that because you were you had me going into you know putting all

of our recommend all of the backlog recommendations in this annual report which is what I was

wanting us to do for the for 2024 if I heard you correctly that we are considering you know for going

necessarily like the presentation or delivering of those previous recommendations to council

I I worry about it has been one of the things that I worried about when we were first asked to

consolidate and put all of our recommendations you know into one pot that we gave to PD back in 2023

actually I think it might have been 2022 if I'm remembering correctly but either way I was going

to suggest recommendations that we have identified as outdated based on changes to their general

orders or changes in the dynamics such as our mental health recommendations that we have for 22

and 23 or 21 or 22 I believe actually is what it is either way there are certain

recommendations including actually in 2020 that are pending further review because the dynamic of

say the Department of Community Response that was billed originally as the amount like the city's

response to an alternative to 911 has been changed and there have been several different

general orders as well as court cases that have changed the dynamic that we can probably wait

that those recommendations are no longer valid or relevant I was thinking going through and identifying

those that are pending for the review that have been changed since the since the you know since the

ad hoc met and proposed them initially and then moving forward with those and those are the ones

that we could eat like you know bring up and present and the other way to catch up on the backlog

I thought too was presenting that as part of our 2024 in report naming the backlog these are the

relevant recommendations that council stones to consider and these are the ones that are not

but I worry about us just bearing it into a you know a dozen page report and letting it like

and then just letting it go because it's a lot that's years worth of commissioners time not just

this commission not just current commissioners but previous commissioners that would ultimately just

be like we could go for nothing if we don't have those front and center and there are particular

topics in there such as crowd and riot control recommendations as well as community engagement

media and budget transparency and surveillance that are important that I think are important topics

that council that deserve council's time and consideration on that I see a commissioner sampled

did you think yeah okay I think I mean if I may I think we're we're I think chair bliss it seems

uncomfortable it's just letting go of recommendations from the previous years because it is a lot of

good work that the commission did I think the challenge is that in a way it's it's if you have new

commissioners coming in it's not necessarily their recommendations it I mean I guess it's a previous

recommendation from the previous body I'm wondering if I mean the next commission or the next set of

commissioners don't have to do this but we can recommend in the annual in this work plan that as the

new commissioners come in maybe they they set up an ad hoc they review the the the list of

previous recommendations and they think about which of those they really want to bring forward

to the police department so hopefully I mean maybe that's a middle way of not ignoring the previous

recommendations but it's a way of encouraging the new commission to make it make them their own

and still be able to look at them and figure out which of those are still relevant the other

ideas is I don't know if that could be a community forum where I don't know what that looks like to

have the community take a look at recommendations and prioritize the ones that make the most sense

the other way is we have each commissioner identify your top three recommendations like which

are the most important I mean there's many ways of doing it I think the challenge is that

they are good recommendations it's good work but in a way I get the sense from what I hear that it

is weighing us down in terms of focus and in terms of making sure that the next commission makes

them their own and make it's that they're that they own the work.

Commissioner Smith. Being such a stepping down it's probably a little unfair of me to speak

because I'm not going to be on the hook for this but to provide a little respect perspective

one I think that you all are wonderfully talented people and that you can do both.

If what you're talking about is preparing an annual plan then certainly you can mention

and in fact should mention the fine the work that has been done up to this point

over the last what six years at this five five six years at this point certainly provide

that as a background but to commissioner Castillo Krings.

Sorry got that wrong. Krings recommendation you know I would have to support it and the reason is this

they have done fine work over the last six years but right now those policy recommendations exist

on paper and have no force whatsoever beyond the force of positive thought that came off of this.

So unless you can foster a better relationship with the people who are going to make

all of these recommendations come true make them be adopted then they don't matter so that has

to be the priority. Just my thought. I appreciate that your comments commissioner Smith and I think

I was going to respond directly to the vice chair that this could the backlog could be

clear with a single like with a single meeting just like you know presenting of the annual report

should be like should be at that time of day but we're oftentimes limited within that.

In terms of the policies yes they do exist on paper there has been some work done that has

addressed them which we have another agenda item to talk about our evaluation of recommendations

from 2020 those responses too but I don't think the work really like lies on us to like go through

and do that because this commission like current commissioners and past commissioners have already

done that work. The work isn't on us it's on the city like it's on the city government to just

give them the time of day and that's been like that's been the issue that's been holding it up.

It's a reason that we have to have this joint workshop to really figure out what the process is

does city council have to take like have to take action should they bother considering it or is

this just a an a thought exercise for community participation around informing potential

changes to policing policies and practices that the department may or may not may or may not implement.

If it's for the latter then I'm of the mind that like at the bare minimum having these out publicly

especially public facing which one of our 2020 recommendations was giving us the resources

staffing resources to put them up publicly to have a website a web page that has these there then we

can get like then it's a product of the community members to carry forward and advocate for to their

respective council members but yes I think like I don't see the work necessarily being on us but I

worry about us disregarding commit like previous commissioners work as part of like our

recommendations going forward into 2025 that said I this conversation is informed

hike some thoughts and recommendations I have for another item that will discuss for the 2020

recommendations that I'll discuss here when we get to it. Is there any other questions or comments

around the work plan and the backlog commissioner Castillo cranks.

So Mr. Chair I completely understand what you're saying I am not saying that we disregard

guard the work that has done is just how we move forward with it and so I think the compromise

about having the annual report laying out all the recommendations because it's up to the new

body to decide maybe they want to take up you know mental health issues that and then they would

have a record of all of the recommendations what has happened right at least best to the best

of our ability and they can decide if they want to take that issue up or not but I think my my

suggestion and what I'm going to propose would be that we accept the 2025 goals and objectives we

basically do number one because that to me is the priority getting that relationship right

and for number two compiling everything and doing a you know a one-pager as part of that

can accompany the report and the recommendations laying out this is all the work we have done it

is up to the new body to decide what priorities if they want to revisit but really the work I think

that you should continue and we can continue to have conversations about are the MEU recommendations

because even if it's 2023 or 2024 that is work that is pertinent for 2025 as well and I think

that can also then just move us forward and focus focus the new commission again we're still

building on experience and building on the recommendations and all the work that we have done I'm

not saying chuck it I'm just saying we can start the new conversation and the new commission and the

conversation with council to say let's talk about the backlog and we can do that and we we know how

that has gone so I think what you're hearing from me at least is I want to let go of some of that

and would like to put our best foot forward and try to get the new commission put them in a better

in a better situation than what we started with and again this these are based on our all collective

experiences and what we have learned so my recommendation would say for 2025 focus on number one

do kind of a rework of number two just making sure all of that is part of the public record and

the commissioners that come in know where to find that and can see the history and then really

highlight the work that continues to happen for me you even 23 and 24 recommendations and move

forward with number three and that would be what kind of what we take over to city council that

would be my my recommendation for the site you repeat that for for me as a motion because I'm

hearing a motion directly within that but no that's impossible now here's what I caught was except

except the 2025 goals and objectives minus number two compiling a one-pager listing out the

the current work that's the one-pager would summarize this conversation right now

ah in our willingness to say we understand that there are six years of work that has happened

and then kind of laying out we have spent a year and a half having conversations trying to work

through the backlog that was you know we were able to get to 2020 just basically laying out all

this history that we have and making sure that people can find it in a document because again

we're not going to be here at this dius so how do we ensure that there is some type of written

documentation that new commissioners can look at and then kind of make up their their mind about

okay we want to revisit this recommendation in 2021 it's 2025 has the last change what are the

communications with city council what is the opinion of PD and they can start that work over

so basically kind of having a robust written record of all of that has transpired in the last two

years and let them decide if that the new body wants to work on it or not right but we would I would

still urge that the recommendations for MEU in 2023 and 2024 those should continue because

that is something that I think for 2025 the public is going to expect some accounting of hey you

ask me to show up to two meetings what have you done both for for our body and for PD so that

work has to continue I second it yeah I want to make sure that I heard that motion correctly um Jacob

Redberg office of the city clerk this item is not uh gentized to take a motion on it's just to

discuss and provide feedback so any of this feedback can be taken back to the chair and vice chair

implemented or not and at a future meeting when you uh do your um and your report and work plan when

you are when you're able to vote on that uh to um forward it to the personal and public employees

committee um you know these any of these changes can be yeah done in a motion thank you um sorry

uh just one more comment these this seems complex for one motion would it be helpful to maybe break

it up into if we if we had to do a motion we would might consider doing that but we don't

right exactly so I yeah we've just taken this down as feedback and I've got it written down of

accepting those those goals except for two and compiling a one-pager summarizing that backlog

that history the background and the current changes over last 22 years and emphasizing the need to

take action and consider the ME recommendations in particular um that's that's what I heard I see a

couple other commissioners Z Wayne Johnson uh if you uh still had that your head up yeah um I'm

going to endorse what uh um commissioner uh Craig Craig said you know I think that's a

makes good logical sense you know at this point and overarching it all for me what's what's most

most important in terms of moving forward is ensuring a sort of a revisit if you will to

to the purpose of the commission so that it's clear with the current administration incoming

administration what is the expectation what are the deliverables you're looking for

and how do we collectively communicate that back to the public yeah that's the overarching for me

you know uh on it and you know there there's there's been puts and takes forward two steps back

one forward again you know we can go through all of that and and ring ring hands till till the cows come

home you know on it I'm about progress you know on it so what we ought to be presenting and pulling

together and presenting as a part of our 20 25 plan and and the workshop with the commission

with the council to my mind ought to be here's what's what has because they're many again remember

we got new council members uh that weren't here previously uh on it and we could clearly

going to have a new mayor you know on it and all that's going to have impact on the city manager

you know so it's a brave new world you know on so I would like to recommend along the lines of

what the commission here Craig says said that you really pull together a preamble if you will

you know to the 2025 that goes through the history of what has been brought up

firstly here's what here's a statement of what what what what caused the creation of the commission

you know here's what what the stated charter current charter says is the good the responsibility

and expectations of the commission question mark is this still all relevant or does it want to be

adjusted by council you know on it thirdly as a result of the commission having been formed

here here here are the highlights of those things that were brought up against those and

recommended by the council on a split screen and and here are the ones that that got adopted or

in some way shape or form you know that that gives you a rolling score card you know going forward

which would benefit both the new members of this commission as well as the new members of

city administration and city council you know so we're all on the same page or at least trying to

sing out at the same book whether we're sopranos or tenors you know on it the you know as as I

said in in rather impassively the at the last meeting you know we all need to take a step back and

say who what when where why you know on it what caused what events caused the reformation of

the commission as a result of those events and the formation what is it our goal what do we

want to achieve what have we achieved what more do we need to do you know those are really the

three buckets you know kind of going forward and and as and as I said said last month you know it

would help the council I think and clearly would help this commission to have a workshop in which we

get on the same page in terms of what the intent is the methodology secondly and thirdly what

what are the anticipated outcomes that we all get get community committed to and then lastly how

does it all get communicated we're all public servants whether whether paid or or unpaid or

partially paid you know you know on other commission and so we've got to always stay kind of focused

at the end of the day in terms of what the hell are we saying to our constituencies what are we

saying to the residents of this city how is it that we we're going we're all collectively whether

it's administration and and and the chief you know or this commission how are we collectively

working to take the ball down the field how do we make it better now for one person not for

you know two people how do we make it better for the citizens of this city from where we started to

where we are and I think ultimately when you cut through the minutiae that's really where our

where our discussions go you know I wanted and there has to be reasonableness of of applicability

you know I'll put it that way you know recommendations that get made reactions from SPD and some of

those going to be as it has been yes no maybe can't do it won't do it go to hell okay it's going

to be one of those responses and hopefully the last two or the lesser part you know on it but

again as you've heard me say many many times you know I'm I'm as much a tiger about the protection

of the citizens of the state as I am equally of the protection of our officers who ask us are on

the line out there and so there are issues of community concern about you know weaponry you know

vehicles and in all the rest you know on how much of that though however is a matter of education

communication both ways you know on it sensitivity to application of those vehicles weapons

policies and the like and and how much of it because as lay citizens we don't have the same

perspective nor the same danger as certified officers who are out there riding around one and two

in the car you know or walking a beat with a whole bunch of felons that are equally as well armed

okay so you got to do some balancing and and I just commissioned his try to you know some

balancing between some legitimate perceptions and some legitimate fears juxtapose against those

that you asked to in in in in search themselves you know between a danger situation in you okay

and just as I know I need certain certain equipment for for my line of work you got to appreciate

this a certain line pieces of equipment that have to happen on the other side but it's all about

reasonableness communications clear transparency as we continue to go forward so again to wrap it up

you know I support with Commissioner Creeks he said again I would just strongly recommend that

that you you actually create a preamble part to the 2025 listing stating where we are with

with twenty four you know twenty I guess is 22 through 24 at this point on it what's still

outstanding what has been delivered doing doing the course what's been what are the kinds of issues

that have been raised and we're and where we have in terms of status on those recommendations

from inception to now you know the other piece to it is is the is the issue of process you know

that we ought to flesh out a bit more what are those specific process impediments that have been

difficult over the years that we found and but you know don't just complain about something

recommend something as a replacement you know here here's what oh here's how has been here's

how we'd like it to be you know with within reason you know on it uh lastly and um and again you

know doing that kind of a primer I think serves the council well in terms of kind of okay what's the

overarching it's set of issues that the commission is dealing with and the council needs to deal with

you know on it what's been accomplished what's still outstanding you know that's clear I you know

I'm a long long time administrator you know if you if you tell me clearly what's taking place and

what's worked and then where we've got pitfalls and and what we need to fix I can deal with that

you know on it but we need to be clear you know on that and and communicate that to both an

incoming administration in terms of the city city staff but also and new city council members

on but equally as well the the newer members that are here on this commission so that we all are

on singing out of the same him you know as we go forward at over art you know I think we have much more

in common whether it's SPD and us or the city or the public we have more in common than we give credit to

at times but we've also got to be able to take a open eyed view and an open-minded view towards

what's work for 20 years is based on 20-year-old information he went and was formed you know does

it still work in today's environment or do we need a tweak it you know and and again the the

whole overarching thing is the service that we collectively as well as individually bring

back to the citizens of this of this city into my speech one hell of a footnote up

right there yeah this has been super helpful in forming how we develop our work plan and it

also bleeds right into item number four or actually I remember three I'm sorry the discussion on

the 2024 annual report and recommendations so we're this is informing that conversation that

last conversation is informing this one quite well given that the work plan is going to be a part

of that but also to the need to really address and lay out where we're at as a commission how we're

feeling what we see is the the biggest obstacles and outstanding questions regarding doctors artwork

but also like their relationship and and collaboration between the our respective entities not just

the commission but also the police department with OPSA office public safety accountability as well

City Council so we provided a rough outline of what we're looking to summarize for our activities

in 2024 military equipment use being the being the top line item simply because that was really

the only one that we were able to to get to but there was work done in other areas including

community policing and response with certain general orders that were reviewed based on

prior conversations from 2023 into 2024 as well as developments and discussions around strategic

planning and budget management as seen from the latest from the last budget cycle so this year's

report I was hoping to actually share some more of that in-depth analysis that has been provided

along with some notable observations when it came to some of that work particularly with

military equipment usage you know a lot of what the summer like what was summarized was included

within the MEU documents and work that were shared with you prior to this meeting but also

some of the data analytics that were done based on the equipment use report the annual military

equipment use report you know with that there are several recommendations that were included

along like an addition of those respective areas that I'm happy to go through a walk through

it's and it's summarized in the genopacate and those are that's just a summary of the recommendation

the rationale can be developed and it can even be changed in this conversation so before we jump

in to Commissioner questions and comments and discussion I want to check with the clerk are there

any members of the public who wish to speak on this item thank you chair I have no speaker slips on

this item thank you clerk Commissioner Griggs yes I didn't realize you had transitioned item number

three so just since you've wrapped up your discussion on item number two I just wanted to

reiterate and mention that the the the chair and the vice chair met with with with us and we gave

some preliminary feedback on the draft that that was presented here I think the vice chair had

mentioned it right what we recommended is to have more specificity in the plan so that we can

provide you the goal will be we'll get a revised based on your discussion tonight we're going to get

a revised draft from the chair hopefully within you know at the time of matter within a week and

then the goal will be for us to provide you with a written feedback on the feasibility and

stuff that we can do so that you have that before you actually draft you actually adopt your

work plan just wanted to put that on the record to say that we had that conversation and we were

just waiting for you guys to have this discussion and then we're going to try to put together some

some feedback for you okay yep appreciate that so annual twenty twenty four annual report and work

plan want to open up to question comments but just a quick overview of some of the

recommendations the first and foremost being around community or civilian oversight engagement

and function the first one was scheduling a joint workshop to address the city auditor's

report between the full city council and commissioners no later than March 15th of 2025

and I think this being like the one that ultimately decides on whether the rest of the

I agree rest of the recommendations really is even rest of the work plan really is going to be

worth the commission's time at this point you know there are the three like you know the three

areas again for folks who aren't familiar with the city auditor's reports they found that you know

when it came to roles there was a lack of clarity and clearly defined roles and responsibilities

it's led to confusion and frustration the commission requires resources and investment from the city

to effectively achieve our objectives and we need a formal process to ensure our recommendations

are documented presented to the city council and approved recommendations are implemented by

the relevant departments which is why we were specific in recommending the topics for discussion

of that workshop being the powers roles and duties between this commission SPD office of public

safety accountability and city staff discussing staffing and resources our quorum requirements which

for those who don't remember in 2023 was the first time we January 2023 was the first time we

didn't have enough members to meet a quorum based on the current reading of the requirements

that's changed a little bit but the majority requirements still exist and there's no contingency

in case we end up in that position again which maybe we would do based coming around January 2025

and then the formal recommendation process in particular and a timeline for city council consideration

and action to really address all of these we've submitted recommendations from like they're in the

2020 report that like that aligned with what the city auditor recommended they have they had very

specific recommendations for how to address all these three key deficiencies and I've gone through

and compiled them into like you know into line by line comparison that will attach within the

annual report as part of this but really I mean if we can't even agree to having a joint workshop

within the first three months of this year my alternative suggestion was going to be that city

council dissolve this body as an advisory body and that we just stop pretending like this is

that we're providing meaningful participation for community members but I'm hearing several of

you have hope that we can start fresh this year and I think that I'm sharing that hope too I'm

trying to share that hope despite my experience but we'll see so that was one of the top ones on

there how do folks want to proceed with this I was thinking we go topic by topic for like the

the sets of recommendations that we have I also had two additional recommendations for the MAU

which were around independent oversight and the process for the MAU process going for presenting

our recommendations and work

I share them rostro I wonder if it helps if we do go topic by topic if you just go down the

first topic and allow us to look at it and summarize it with you yes so the first one

the first set of recommendations were two additional military criminal use recommendations

the first of which being

consolidating independent oversight entities into one section and removing the governing

body which is the city council from the independent oversight entity section the reason being

is that city cap like we've made it clear and letters going back as far as 2022 as well as

previous recommendations around independent oversight the city council is not an independent

body from the police department not only does it decide as budget but it also carries direct

influence by labor representatives that serve the department particularly the Sacramento

Police Officers Association which according to campaign finance records has given at least

over $150,000 just to the majority of city council members including the mayor

who's received the largest sum from that that and of itself is disqualifying of them being an

independent oversight entity we like the intent behind the law was to actually establish independent

oversight oversight outside of the department which as it stands right now is relegated to the

independent affairs division and the professional standards unit based on our previous conversations

and I think until we actually get that like make that clear within the policy and based on how

the commission was treated when we tried to present our recommendations as well as our report and work

in August that we're going to be spending more like we're going to be spending more of our

wheels and the community is going to continue being frustrated within this current process

so yeah vice chair Bernlostre make sure that so the the first eight recommendations that we have on

on this sheet just to make sure that we all understand those are the ones that have been approved

by this body yes it's nine and ten that would be new and added to 2024 yes and then also just

just making sure that we look at the the spreadsheet SPR SPRC outcome I would say ignore that

column right because that hasn't been an outcome on those yet right right so the information

is correct except for the the right most column but okay so so I mean I'm just summarizing my

understanding apologize to this is repetitive but one through eight we have approved those

already previously it's nine and ten that are new yes I should yeah I should have mentioned

the earlier everything that's highlighting the red and that is considered new those are proposed

and then I'll just make a I have a question and maybe somebody a commissioner that's a more

experienced can tell me should we be pulling out recommendations that are specific to the city

council or do we keep those within this set of recommendations that go to the police department

because I as a look at number ten maybe I'm wrong but it seems like that one is more for the council

or for for how they do the staff reports right good question and and that's something to think

about as we think about how we present this within our annual report commissioner Castillo Cranks

a little confused so all the red ones are new yes there's not just nine and ten we're looking at

it goes down to item 24 25 okay and then just out of curiosity I know that we have been using a

different format just is this the format that is going to be presented to the council no this is

just for our purposes to utilize as a summary based on our capacity thank you

so these are just like these are just brief proposals there's no action to be taken on this this is

all about feedback and the like the recommendation we presented with rationale in the at the next

meeting when we discuss the the final report that makes sense yes

any questions on the proposed military equipment use or additional recommendations

wish or Smith if you're going if we're going forward with from from the previous item if we're

going forward with a conversation with the city council and and other bodies

regarding how it is that this body interfaces with them how do you integrate a discussion of

the creation of another body that create that handles independent oversight and who's supposed to

input on that I guess how do you wrap that into the conversation because by necessity if your

expectation is that they're that they're going to accept that recommendation then you have to

be able to envision some way of defining what that that as yet un-created bodies interests are

the limits their authority is this making sense the bodies that are discussed that are well with

we're all right so imagine that it's now 20 early 2025 and you sit down with the city council you

have this meeting that that you wanted to have for a while and at this meeting you discuss how it

is that you're going to interface with the with the city council in the future how you're going to

advance all the recommendations and all the rest of it but on some level you got to expect that

this new body that you might want to create here is going to get is going to inherit some of the

oversight response oversight responsibilities that currently rest within the preview of this of

this body they're going to have their own independent opinions they're not going

basically you've got a card card out a new niche for this body and for this is yet un-created body.

Quick clarification are you under the impression that this is creating a new body because it's

not it's not creating a new independent oversight body it's designating for it's

redesignating certain bodies that are currently in the military the MEU policy under the general order

that that includes. Did Miss understand this then my my my understanding from this reading was

that it was going to go into create a new body. No no it's not okay my apologies. No worries.

Okay yeah yeah I mean just if I could summarize it more clearly it would simply consolidate

the OPSA and the commission as being for independent oversight entities and that it would remove

city council which is the governing body of the policy under AB 41 as an independent oversight

entity which is which the department currently maintains is one of those entities.

Commissioner Castillo-Kringes. Just a little bit of context on this. How did the new

recommendations come about? They were based I am proposing those based on the conversation that

came out of the from city council on August 27th. I'm trying to think about based on the

conversation we had about the annual report in the last item how this kind of ties it all up

right because they're kind of one does not operate alone these two recommendations are kind of

synced. In terms of the work that we are the recommendations for 2024 what we're moving forward

as part of the annual report and also our work plan because I think to me it all ties together.

So I'm just trying to understand how this all syncs up.

I'm just saying how these two recommendations add on and build or wrap up the

I'm not talking about 9 and 10 I'm talking about the other. Oh the other ones. Those are based on

research that I've done as part of the commission and under these work topic areas

and they're just proposed as an idea is based on my observations and review of the relevant policies

particularly overtime policies that concern or that were revealed during the June budget hearing

the May and June budget hearings. So these are just like again these are just draft summaries

for that and I can provide a more detailed recommendation like more detailed rationale if we want

to do that but if the like if we're of the mind that we shouldn't even propose any additional

recommendations this like beyond what we have so far that's like that's a option too. No I just

I'm thinking about how we normally have come to recommendations and it always has been

back in the day through ad hoc or through some other work group as a body or a small group of us

working together or recommendations that come out of public meetings and so I'm just wondering if

we're deviating from our normal way of functioning and providing recommendations and how those come

about and I'm wondering if that is the case maybe we need a little more time to look at these

before we're included as an entire body saying these are recommendations that we want to put forth.

I think we did deviate some from the established model based on the changes of chapter 2.40

last year we were given opportunity to like create more work groups or to have work groups but

then earlier this year based on the read of the policy we weren't even allowed to necessarily

have work groups we only have work topic areas which some like which we were free to like you know

coordinate and talk about outside like you know in between those in between meetings but couldn't

talk about during the council commission meetings. Well we've always had the ability to kind of call

each other and say as long as it's less than five people and try to work through and workshop some

of these ideas I was and I apologize I was not able to attend the October 23rd meeting the community

meeting did that end up? The 23rd meeting we cancelled based on the got it okay and so I think

I would feel more comfortable if some of the new recommendations were had been vetted by us

you know by more of the commissioners or have been discussed prior to us kind of having this

discussion today. Vice Chairman Roscoe. I'm trying to figure out how to move forward or advance

so okay first of all I think chair bliss I mean I just want to thank you for putting the ideas

on paper I know it's a lot of hard work a lot of research a lot of effort and you've been

carrying a lot of the weight when it comes to doing the recommendations. I'm wondering if

because I think it's going to be hard to go over each recommendation one by one at this meeting

I'm wondering if now that we can have at Hawks right now we can do it and I know that or timeline is

limited but I'm wondering if maybe pulling together some commissioners to go over these draft

ideas and get more input would be worthwhile before the next meeting and before we vote on them

on December 9th. I would. Obviously if we do that then who wants to work on them who wants to

meet and work on them is it one just one ad hoc that goes over all of these draft recommendations or

do we want to do it by topic because I see two topics here right we have civilian oversight

and engagement and then we have strategic planning and budgeting maybe it is one ad hoc that

looks at all the recommendations that we want to put forward in 2024.

Okay so I'll propose something I'll propose that it's one ad hoc just to simplify it

and this would give additional commissioners an opportunity to look at them review them and maybe

prioritize the ones that we do want them to forward in 2024.

I would second that or I would agree with that we don't necessarily need a second to do this

because this is just a feedback item right so yes we can form an ad hoc to do that now we couldn't

do that before last month but now that we can I'm totally open to that and would be happy to walk

to have a less than a quorum of commissioners who are interested so it would be up to you all to

raise your hand and indicate if you want if you're interested.

Yes I'm sorry so the question is do you could is there any commissioners who would want to be

a part of this ad hoc to go through the draft recommendations?

Yes.

And just clarification what is your time frame by which the work has to be done?

Ideally before end of November.

I have draft write-ups of the rationale I just didn't have time to get them

ran before the city's deadline like I've got no staff support to like put these forward together

so I've been trying to provide them before the end of this year knowing that probably I probably

not going to be accepted to continue on to this commission next year even though I reapplied.

Quick question this is it's on topic but it seems like we might have moved in a direction.

Do we know has the city attorney attorney offered an opinion as to whether or not the city council

can actually devolve some of its responsibility currently to an independent commission?

In other words do you look we're saying that this body is going to take on some oversight

responsibility currently that that rests within the purview of the city council.

Do we know that the city charter gives the city council the authority to devolve its response part

of its responsibility to another body? Good question.

So the city powers of the city rest with the city council so I'm not sure you want the charter section or

well

so there have been and this is I'm trying to draw parallels because I don't have a lot of clarity here.

There have been court cases at the federal level in the past where the federal government

sought to devolve some of its responsibilities of the states and the courts kicked it back and

said you can't do that this is your responsibility federal government.

In the absence of language in the city charter that specifically grants the authority to devolve

oversight responsibility to an independent body do we know that the city council has the

authority to do that? I think I understand what you're if the council raised that question with

the city attorney's office we would give the council a legal opinion on that. Could this

body in advance of their discussion? Yeah I think I understand what you're getting at in terms of

if we were to say remove the city council's an independent oversight. They still have say over

the MEU policy per AB41 government code because they're the governing body. What the department

has long maintained since AB41 came into effect was that the city council was both the governing

body and its independent oversight body which is not the same thing. That was like how we

listed it. We named that within the memorandum that we sent before we approved our 2022

recommendations and then we approved it formally within our 22 and 23 languages.

The intent was that there to be an independent oversight body and by definition the governing

body which is like subject to the which governs and decides how much funding the police department

gets and accepts campaign contributions from police office individual police officers and their

labor associations. That in of itself is qualified as an independent oversight entity. That's

what this is ultimately getting at. Right yeah I get that part I'm just it's not clear to me that

that the resolution or where the line is drawn between governing body and oversight and that

you know I just perusing the city charter I didn't see any mention of that specifically so

I just I'd be very curious to know that answer before you put that as an alternative

in front of city council be nice to know if they actually can do that. If you can show them a pathway

to doing that. So what typically happens is the commission makes recommendations then that set

of recommendations goes to PD and also to the city's attorney's office and then they do that we

not mean but the relevant subject matter expert in my office does a review and provides that legal

advice. So you're not preempted from speaking a recommendation but that legal advice will go to

council if council wants to take up that recommendation. Gotcha okay thank you.

Jacob Bradberg office of the city clerk per council rules procedure chapter 8 section d6 city

established legislative bodies shall automatically adjourn after two hours unless extended by a two

thirds vote of members present. So at this time we'll need to take a vote to extend the meeting

past 730 for an additional hour. Is there a motion to extend the meeting?

Moved. Seconded.

Will the clerk please go. Thank you both. I have a motion by commissioner Z Johnson and a second by

chair bliss. Commissioners if you could please unmute your microphones. Commissioner Sample. No.

Commissioner J Johnson. No. Commissioner Z Johnson. Yes.

Mr. Carter Martinez's absence. Vice chair Gwen Roestrow. Yes.

Commissioner Griggs. No. No. Commissioner Landeros. No. Commissioner Smith. Yes.

Yes. Commissioner Castillo Kringes. Yes. Commissioner Salazar. Yes.

And chair bliss. Yes. Thank you the motion does not pass. Two thirds vote would be seven of the

current 10 members here as such the meeting will adjourn. The meeting started at 537 so two hours would

be 737 so we have about 10 minutes. Appreciate that. Yeah we have a we have good feedback in terms of

how we want to approach the rest of the annual report. The summary is there we still have to write it

but it would be great to have an ad hoc of commissioners who are interested in helping to either

refine their recommendations that have been summarized in draft form or this can or

not move forward with them. I heard Commissioner Landeros was interested. Are there any other

members who wish to be part of this? Sign me up. I'll go ahead and I'll help you also with the

annual report draft. Okay great. I have commissioner Castillo Kringes and commissioner

Espenas and Salazar. Including myself that's four there's room for one more did you can

include. Yep and the vice chair so that means we have our ad hoc we will work on that within

prior to the meeting on December 9th to have a graphic message there. But if anybody wants to join

I'm happy to make make room so you can join. Yes indeed. Commissioner Castillo Kringes.

Okay. Commissioner Smith I think. All right with that we're going to table the item four

the evaluations for our 2020 recommendations to the next meeting to December 9th and with that

or one moment with that. Let me check with the city attorney's office. Do we need to take a

motion to continue item number four? Okay. That'll be added to the next meeting. That future meeting.

Thank you for that. With that being adjourned.