Good evening and welcome to the Disability Advisory Commission of the

Sacramento. Today is Thursday. Today is Wednesday. Hello again everybody. Let's try that again.

Today's Wednesday, December 4, it's 539 PM and this meeting is now called to order. Will

the clerk please call the roll to establish a quorum? Thank you chair. Commissioners,

if you can please unmute your microphones. Commissioner Tuzon Void.

Present. Commissioner Mercer. Present. Commissioner Ellis. Present.

Vice Chair Kramer. Present. Commissioner Smith. Is absent. Commissioner Greenbaum. Present.

Commissioner Carr. Present. And Chair Crowley. Present. Thank you. We have a quorum.

I would like to remind members of the public and chambers that if you would like to speak

on an agenda item, please turn in a speaker slip when the item begins. You will have two

minutes to speak once you are called on. After the first speaker, we will no longer accept

speaker slips on that item. We will now proceed to today's agenda. At this time, I'd like

to defer to Vice Chair Kramer. Thank you chair. Thank you chair. We please rise for the

land acknowledgement. The original people of this land, the Nisanan people, the Sagan

Maydu Valley and Plains, Miwok, Patlin, Wintum peoples and the people of the Witton Rancheria

Sacramento's only federal, we recognize tribe. May we acknowledge and honor the native people

who came before us and still walk beside us today on these ancestral lands by choosing

to gather together today in the active practice of acknowledgement and appreciation for Sacramento's

indigenous peoples, history, contributions and lives. Thank you. And I would, we would

like to join the pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United

States of America and to the republic like the Wittichestians, one nation under God,

indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Vice Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair. I would like to make a notation before

moving on in the agenda to move public comments matters not on the agenda that's currently

at the end of the meeting to now before the consent calendar. So commissioners, if you

could make that note.

Clerk, are there any members of the public who we should speak on public comments for any

matters that are not on the agenda? Thank you, Chair. We have no speakers for this.

Thank you. I'd like to turn the meeting management to Vice Chair Kramer for the consent calendar,

please. Thank you, Chair. Can we get approval for the commission meeting minutes?

Second.

Oh, motion to approve the consent calendar. Yes.

Second.

Now, we need a press motion for the commissioner follow-up blog.

I think what they're moving. So usually the consent calendar. So you would just call for

a motion to approve the consent calendar. So that would include whatever's in the consent

calendar. So now I think you've had a motion in a second. So then you would just call

for a vote at that point. Okay. So may I get a vote to pass the commission follow-up

blog? Thank you, Vice Chair. And just to confirm the motion that was on the table was just

for the meeting minutes. So do we want to approve the consent calendar as a whole?

Perfect. I second that amended motion. Thank you.

Question. All right. And then for the record we have no public speakers for the consent calendar.

Commissioners, if you can please unmute your microphones for the vote. Commissioner Tuzon Boit.

Aye. Commissioner Mercer. Aye. Commissioner Ellis.

Aye. Vice Chair Kramer. Aye. Commissioner Smith is absent.

Commissioner Greenbaum. Aye. Commissioner Carr. Aye.

And Chair Crowley. Aye. Thank you. The motion passes.

At this time I'd just like to offer Vice Chair Kramer if you'd like to continue leading

the meeting for the discussion calendar. If you would like to continue that would be acceptable.

Yes. Thank you. So we have we have one agenda, one this one item on our discussion calendar

today and that is to reveal the draft of the DAC for 2024 and our annual report and work

plan for 2025. All right. Thank you. So after our meeting in November,

Stephanie Siaz, who's with me again tonight, went through the annual report and provided

the updates. And so we also I met with Sylvia and Mo to go over the meeting and make the

revisions that we all discuss. So I hope you had time to review the revised report. And so

I'd like to just step through and I think the most efficient way to go is just to kind

of take it page by page and we can proceed that way. And I should be able to share my

share my computer to if we want to talk to specific edits and I see it's up there.

That's sound good. All right. So just have our cover page.

How many changes there? Table of contents. There was some minor edits just to the ordinance

references that Mr. Gale gave me the updates on. I had a couple errors in terms of the past

commissioners and start dates. So we got that cleared up, I believe.

Oh, okay. Sure. Sure. Sorry.

I have permission to. Okay. So it's in regards to Alexandria Smith being a current commissioner.

She has not attended several meetings and I am curious if anybody has called to see if

she is still serving. I mean, she's missed at least four if not five consecutive meetings,

six meetings. Since she's been appointed earlier this year. I think it would be best. I

don't know. I'm looking for some information from our city staff has. I know she's on the

emails, but she's missed several meetings has anybody picked up the phone and called the

commissioner to see if she's still intends to serve. So I think clerk staff does keep

track of the attendance. So yeah, so she's missed three now.

He's missed more than three. Okay. So this just notes that she was appointed or was serving

this year. But yeah, she's not an active commissioner. You know, we can say.

She stopped serving with parentheses, just like the other people who have resigned or

termed out. I mean, maybe council has a opinion. I know that city staff was waiting for the

PMP to and city council to firm up some of the rules around serving on commissions and

absences. This has exceeded past that being finalized. So.

And I did reach out to the commissioners to make sure we had a quorum tonight. And I did

not receive a response from her. So your, yeah, so your point's taken.

And so she has not been at any of the meetings where we've actually discussed this report. So

our voice is not part of this report. Okay. So I guess, you know, do you have anything?

Well, I think if she's still considered a commissioner, right? There's a process to

remove commissioners. And if she hasn't been removed and she's still considered a commissioner,

I would suggest she be listed as a commissioner. They have. I don't remember the exact

process, but I think there's a process to actually have them removed. Is there any other

discussion?

How we had a communication at all with commissioner Smith over the last time. I was just.

I'm sorry. I guess for my knowledge, when you're requesting a quorum, should we reply

that yes, we are making it? We planted a tent. Because I've been under the assumption that

I just tell you no. So I apologize because I've not responded that.

I think what it is is the number of commissioners changed recently. And so we're getting closer

to the threshold when we may not have a quorum. And so there's eight now. So three of you

are absent. Then we won't have a quorum. And so there are two that are being two new commissioners

that are being recommended council that I was going to report on in my oral report out.

So they would be if approved come on board in January. So that would increase the number

to 10. But then if Alexandria Smith drops off, we'd be back down to nine, I guess. So you

know that I'll defer to Jacob with the clerk staff who does all that monitoring of the commissioners.

But for future, you can just let me know if you're not going to make it.

I just the reason I did that is because we're so close to the holidays. And there's

you was like, and we had some absences last time. And so I just wanted to make sure. But yeah,

I think moving forward, I mean, I'll email you maybe on a special occasion. And I think there's a

chance we're not going to have a quorum because I don't want to waste everyone's time to come out

here if we know we're not. But thank you all for responding because I was able to count it up.

And there was six. And so we were good. So well, then I apologize. I didn't respond.

Because I guess was just under the assumption, you know, if I couldn't make it. No, I think you did.

Oh, I did. You did. Yeah. Well, I

digital age, you know, it's like you forget, right? No, you think you can give me like a thumbs up.

You just give me like a quick thumbs up.

Well, and the other thing that I'm hearing is that we're talking about how this page reflects

things that aren't equally representative. So for example, does it change the

communication of how we want this to look if we just take Mr. Dales example instead of saying,

instead of highlighting commissioners that were of a previous year or not that this report reflects

those who were appointed. So it's reflecting the appointing instead of having when things are

termed out. It doesn't make a significant difference in the quality of the report to just list

the names of commissioners who were assigned so that who were appointed rather instead of

identifying who's there or not resigned or not. Is that some sort of I let me know the absence.

So I for I hear what you're saying, chair.

I think it's really important because of the reason why some of our commissioners resigned

this year has to do with practices within the city that impacted our commission greatly.

That the way it's noted now is appropriate in my opinion.

I mean, I raised the issue of this commissioner being absent at the last meeting.

It would be nice if the clerk's staff had some information either for us here tonight or had

communicated something to our support staff so that they know perhaps she thinks she's resigned

because she hasn't been here. Because prior to the change in the ordinance it was if you missed

three absences you were automatically removed. The process now is a newer process where you

the appointing council member or body which in our case for most of us as the PMP is notified

and then they have an opportunity to reach out to the commissioner. So it's more of a

because there are extenuating circumstances sometimes and so that was seem more appropriate.

She was appointed prior. She stopped coming prior to that being also adopted.

She did come to some meetings so yes she did serve at some point but she has not been here for

several meetings. And also I'd like to add are we saying that this needs to be a historical

list when it's already recorded versus there is a new way this is a record of something based on

as of today when we vote what is being reflected. So for example instead of saying has served if we

just remove the word and said have been appointed that's why I was referring to the city attorney's

language then it's just a it's a public document right so if we are to assume that some in this

example that we're using Commissioner Smith she's legally recorded publicly I mean publicly

recorded as Commissioner Smith is still there on some website but the question about serving is

a nuanced word so if we're just saying the following commissioners are have been appointed or

the reference point here is the 23 to 25 update and we want to move forward having it be current

is it valid to have this historical record such that it's just a name list as the 2023 commissioners

are listed I don't know if that matters I propose a change in the language on this on this page where you

have similar to where you have 20 23 commissioners below can we just instead of it saying current

Sacramento disability advisory commissions have 2024 commissioners listed you know

so 2024 commissioners 2023 commissioners right and it captures the two years that were

announced and it says served and then the language would be also updated served on the commission

prior to well 2023 says prior to 2024 but this would be in 20 in 2023 or 20

second minute like this I can't read that up there so yes well so so it would just be 2024

commissioners I changed my screen so it would just say 2024 commissioners just like it says 2023

commissioners down below okay and then the language right underneath it would be the following

commissioners served on the commission in 2024 so the word so it would just start instead of saying

current Sacramento disability advisory 2024 commissioners it could just say disability Sacramento

disability advisory commissioners is that what you're saying oh I'm saying did he get it right the way

that you're suggesting it I'm saying only have 2024 commissioners as the as the header just the

word number 2024 and then commissioners know nothing else yes and then underneath instead of

our serving served on the commission in 2024 and then the notations of people's appointments

resignations terming out is still appropriate and I would feel more comfortable with leaving

commissioners Smith on there with that verbiage change oh I see okay to that yeah that's good I mean

I my comment is that that's good that's good it's a uniform way to read it and simple I was just

wondering since we're looking at it why does the first meeting matter does that matter for any reason

when we started versus resign or termed is there a I keep wondering why the um oh just put the

month I guess put the month yeah right because it's mid in the middle of the year is is that the

intention behind it just noting when they started I like it the way it is because it shows the

I guess I showed like like Greg Lim great Glenn resigned in August you know first meeting

because there were literally what two or three months there've been two or three months since

2019 that we have had a fully seated commission at our previous number of nine because you know

what I mean first meeting of the second term first meeting of the first term is opposed to just

June 2024 August 2024 people really wanted to take my my comment is that if people really wanted to

take a deep dive into everyone's transcript they would go into the website website is very yeah detailed

and so how it just kind of in my opinion we're just saying look at all the people that have been

involved for this input at some point has served yeah um instead of being um like an attendance list

of some kind right it removes the it removes the power of it by saying well we're it's like okay

mo chair Crowley well she's chair up here vice chair over there well okay that's that's fine to

note because there's it's on the agendas but is it if we're saying that we have a uniformed voice

then is in a nameless sufficient and then they can with all the IT advances they could look up

that commissioner Crowley was a commissioner and a chair and a vice chair what not I'm just saying

for if there's if there's leverage to get heard better versus the impact of look at all these people

who have served to make this document come alive that's my I think that you being chair should be

noted and I would think that Sylvia being vice chair should be noted I'm she's a carry over from

2023 I don't think it's necessary to note that she's on her second term because we don't do that

for any of the other people that have rolled over so yeah and also um to that point too it would

make it for example just to have it in parentheses instead of um in 2024 it's vice chairs and the

Sylvia Kramer versus below just kind of have it in parentheses then it just highlights who we were

instead of um yeah that's more I think the artistic side of one of my comments are to make it

more powerful that look at the volume of numbers and how organized we were with a chair and vice chair

so that's that anyone else wanted to say anything about it I'm very impressed with how many

people have sat in seats to the to their ability and I still say that notating that none of it is

possible without the multiple cross-training of staff but everyone chose not to put their pictures

and their bios which is next which is next yeah seeing no further comment oh go ahead

mm-hmm if that looks very busy maybe we can add hyperlinks there and which goes to the document

on bio wherever we have the bio and then you can add there you know start first meeting 2024 or

something if it looks too busy in this list oh just a hyperlink to the web page or to the web page

or to even within this document where you okay where you have the um bios so in the bio you can write

first meeting 2024 Rizsa like oh yeah that's a really nice idea like that I T person I T person

she said to run here I and you know this might not matter I I just the order and because I was

think we have perhaps um commissioner Kramer should be second I don't a second I don't you know

I don't know if there was any rhyme or reason to the order um I think it's I like the idea of

the hyperlink um that was just another I mean the thought that I'm having as we look at this oh yeah

chair vice chair and then alphabetize everybody yeah let me put a note

probably easier Jesse than trying to do it now go and watch me

if you give me the keyboard I can type a little I hear fast

I so appreciate you know you've been so open to all of our you know nuances

are we on the bios page now so yeah so they keep going let's see I did want to offer to the

commissioners they don't have their bios on now if you haven't already sent a photo to Jesse that

I um have my iPhone and I'll take a photo of you if it's Jesse if you're if it's not by choice

that you're not not on the bio page and I I'm not on there now but I have done my homework

with the meaning right Jesse you got it you did yeah so we we'll we'll come back to the message to

the council but yeah so the bios most of you have responded so yeah I think it's fine if someone

doesn't want theirs on there then that's fine but um those that did probably it doesn't add that

personal personal touch so I've been meaning to send mine in okay I will give it by the end of the

week for sure okay so you'll have it so yeah I did get Brandy's I got to get the formatting right

I think I said find in two you did it yes yes so I got to get yours in so are you the last the

last man standing so to speak no pressure I have a photo yeah well I was just thinking you know

that made I mean that's part of the thing like we don't all have photos that we

and and to commissioner cowers point by having it organized once the bios hit then it'll be

alphabetized and chair vice chair and then the alphabetized list okay so I'll go chair vice chair

and then alphabetized it okay which means that gale is going to come before gofen oh wait you want

that for the staff too well you just you know I'm just pointing out that you you've skimmed past that

I passed as Brandy types and as quick as commissioner cows on the hyperlink and commissioner

green bombs with her edits the policy does all the heavy lift the poly come before yeah gale before gofen

yeah okay so we want to move on to the message

and just so everyone knows I had emailed some edits on just like grammar and syntax that I

thought were better and I did go through it and listen to everyone's comments on it and try to

capture kind of I didn't have any suggestions on that one

looks looks good to me and vice chair car at the meeting did you have anything on this like the

messaging out that needed that had any edits I don't think we did but I just wanted to make sure

yeah I captured him oh you captured him okay okay

yeah we talked about this at length last time and there's just some grammar edits

okay

cover the bios so everyone's going to be on there

and then recommendations so a lot of discussion on caring forward the recommendation for

the citywide 88 coordinator and I did get some good feedback from

band bandy no band Susan bandy yeah who came to the meeting last time and so she went over

this and so and also we had a good discussion on is this a status from the city's perspective or

status from the commission's perspective so we try to capture from the commission's perspective

so thank you so much for adding that detail I think because we're still recommending that it

be a recommendation that under the status I think I would like that last sentence to be first

in that section which is the commission believes a citywide 88 coordinator position first in

all titles of ADA would better serve and then the detail about the ADA after that

just because I think that gets a lost the desire to have a somebody whether it's a part-time or

a full-time person as I put the ask up for on in case they trail up and they're reading

because the detail is important but it's also now a lot of detail

all right so I made that edit

any other comments not on that one okay so 2024

IT department staff updating the website which we we do capture and then accomplishments

by talking about closed captioning and providing instructions so again thank you for adding

what was discussed and shared the the concern I have is this sounds like we don't need what we

are asking for and I personally as a commissioner believe that closed captioning of our meetings is

still needed to some extent not everybody uses Google Chrome you know you might be watching meetings

on your phones or other mobile devices which those of you who work with computers know that we're

always having to keep in mind that mobile usage because that's where people tend to like even

when we're sitting here in the meetings like we're looking stuff up right if we don't have

a laptop in front of us so

my sense is that and the original recommendation for this was closed was multifaceted right

closed captioning can I suggest something because that it says partially carried forward you need

to put that in because we're carrying it forward the IT department staff has updated the website

which includes comprehensive assessment and remediation of the website accessibility compliance

and correspondence for I think we need to put but there are still some outstanding issues from our

original request that need to be addressed or something along those lines I'll leave it up to you

brandy or somebody else towards that the transition it needs that saying not everything happened however

but I I have issue with which includes a comprehensive assessment and remediation because we've

never seen that report we've been given a presentation saying that this work has been done and that

it was going to be tested by people that we haven't so we so I understand that that's part of

what they've done oh I see you know the IT department has updated the website

okay in my in my opinion there and I wouldn't specify google technologies out there are some

technologies available that can exist people but you know closed captioning is still a need

as and then we we also said look at technologies that assist commenting in public meetings so it's not

just commenting on public meetings but I think that goes down there's another recommendation that

hasn't that has another issue so and I also don't think it's partially carried over it's carried

over in my opinion there are work is being done but it's okay I mean we asked for closed captioning

of public meetings and accessible ways to submit public comment I was going to know changes have been

made on the part of the city in that area yeah and one of the things thank you brandy and Alice I

mean commissioner to son boy and commissioner Mercer sorry um my comment for the recommendation parts

it's might as well being mentioned now is to have everything that is carried forward listed as

carried that means that if the words carried forward are not listed then the converse is you know

the logic of it is it's carried forward and therefore mentioned that it's carried forward and then

the rest is implied as new right and then um then it sets the tone that from 2023 to 2025

we are saying that these are going to be regularly discussed topics for whoever sits on the commission

and there will be no other gaps or omissions of why this report is so robust so that whoever comes

next year has this as I mentioned before and I'm mentioning it now because of this just the subtlety of

recommendation to carried forward recommendation for carried forward oh but recommendation three

was not so if somebody wanted to do carried forward and did a control find we could as commissioners

or the public go to the council member and say since 2023 this report says this is still being

talked about what's being done we can have a document that empowers our constituents and the next

set of board members because now this is our template just to no longer say well we're new so we

didn't know and what did the old recommendation say it's organized in a way that it doesn't matter

who the staff is who the chair is who the attorney is who the clerk's office is it's there

and the public can respond the commission can respond the other commissions can be shared the

document right because we're relevant in all aspects of city work and city life so that was that's

I think the tone it's different when I read it this time and so that's why I was glad Brandi

brought it up because I think that item whenever there's something that's recommended that wasn't

satisfactorily resolved from our perspective it's going to carry forward and so that's what I

think we're going to see for the rest of the report and the tone then will summarize it and that

wasn't a good example early on that's not partial it either did or didn't happen and if it didn't

happen the entire letter that was written or the previous work or the archives somebody could take

a deep dive on that and make it there you know take a torch to it but for our purposes that's the

importance of why I think the comment that Brandi started with is applicable to all of it because

as just as sorry again for being informal that was my intent today to be informal but I don't mean

to record it that's as such so as Commissioner Tiss-On Boyd was mentioning as Mr. Goathen was

starting this off by saying if there is the perspective of how the commission is reporting back

to the city the city knows what it's done but this is stronger with Commissioner Tiss-On Boyd's

comment and what we did at the last meeting to say this is our feedback representing our constituents

of the evaluation of what we had said after a year or two years worth of work so now there's a

backlog of response action reflection by the council where is the next set of commissioners going

to choose to be present at other meetings and other emails that might be sent that are citizen

requests right so those are the common themes so that's the other reason I wanted to just take a

minute to say as we're looking at the rest of the document to hold the tone that we just used in

this example and if we find it that then Mr. Goathen can make the language with the staff's help

to make it symmetrical and it's an easy to find resource for people who are reading the document

so whether he gets to the hyperlinks or not Commissioner Carr at least there's a reference point

right any other comment yeah I have a comment on this one I do like Commissioner Tiss-On Boyd's

comment that like if they have said that they've updated the website as being their customers we

they we should have had a deliverable they should have shown us what what is what has been done

it will be really nice to see a presentation or demonstration of what has done so they did come and

present this year but I think what Brandy's comment was is there's like a there's a certification

board right certification process that they reference and she's saying she hasn't seen that okay

right and also I mean we've talked about this last time is if you search online they they haven't

retired the old site so search generates if you go on Google and you look up something for the city

you're just as likely to end up on the old website as you're on the new website so I mean it's

is it did they finish that website I you know I think it's there's room for

discussion there but a continued item is what I'm hearing this time yeah yeah so I think that

they have updated the website the way the edits that you've put in there they have updated the

website and the city should provide instructions how to use it on the browser and look at other

technologies public comment public meetings but I think I sent in saying that you know we still

recommend closed captioning for all public meetings or something that

can't satisfy that accommodation so okay so that sentence if I it's all it's already there isn't it

yeah it's there but not the the last thing would be we still recommend closed captioning for meetings

oh I see is that yeah so the way you have it plus should some version of continue carried forward

and then ending it with continuing to recommend or no I like what you have there you know that you

can that there are there are tools available but in the city should share that in in the absence of

providing closed captioning but I don't know how the other commissioners feel but I think closed

captioning would be best practice and since that came from the deaf and hard hearing community to us

as a commission that's not just something that you know someone sitting here on the

dias said hey that would be a nice way to accommodate the public yeah I tend to agree and

I mean a lot of the Google products are free and there's a reason why they're free because they're

really not free because they scrape it for data and all that other whatever Google does so that's

why it kind of like when I see that as an option oh you can use Google well okay you know I don't

think that's of the best interest for the city and not to like dig too far into the weeds you know

these videos are public videos of the meetings there are colleges and universities that had lawsuits

around this over the last several years under ADA they thought that because they weren't necessarily

publicly available per se because they're behind you know a login of sorts that they didn't have

to necessarily make them compliant with captions and things like that and they were the courts ruled

that they were wrong you know so I I would say that a the city want you know the goals you know of

our commission and you know of what's in the ordinance says says we want to be as accessible and

inclusive to me some of this doesn't really convey that in the best way so yeah I would I tend to

agree with you and we have this is before Jesse's time because this has been a point of discussion

for a while maybe even before Commissioner Mercer joined the reason why closed captioning

on zoom wasn't acceptable is because AI generated closed captioning is not ADA compliant which is

exactly what the closed captioning option on Google is AI generated you know the clerk

had asked me as a volunteer for this commission to research closed caption options for the city

and then took that on and then here we are being told that Google is the way to go so you know if we

want to be truly ADA compliant Google answer you know we either we either do it or we don't this

is yet another not really doing it so if zoom captioning isn't ADA compliant I'm hearing that

this isn't because I'm assuming it's not that it's not satisfying the recommendation that we had made

and you know something that I'm hearing us discuss right now may not have context from before

so this goes to the point of as an advisory group when asked for advice it must be carried forward

because the IT staff updated a website more needs to be included and this short statement being

vested commissioners there's a nice mix and it shows why our appointments are so important

and impactful for moments like this because the rest of the recommendations as we talked about last

meeting were summarized for our point of view because everything else is governmental it's the one

opportunity to say that you might think that your job your perspective your research was accurate

but the Disability Advisory Commission has a different point of view which requires us to continue

and carry forward the discussion and then it tees up everything else so whether it happens you

know what did we learn with public works presentations and sometimes even within other departments of

the city whenever there's a turnover of staff or whenever there's a different sort of budgetary crisis

the mission starts to dissipate into being able to put everything in a box that'll get everyone paid

and give something to the people this we're not a commission that has to make exceptions

we're the commission that has to mandate certain things because it's a universal standard of

quality of life so that's what I hear when we talk about Google being a promotion there were

there was two in fact two type a promotion of a marketing of a brand we're not beholden to a

brand is the point and when there were two presentations by IT and they're making their effort

so the language by keeping from besides recommendation one which sets the tone and everything we

just talked about the next couple pages then if we can continue this momentum because commissioner

Tucson points capturing a little bit of how to edit this so that when we get to the end of this

meeting we have a much cohesive document right because we're just cleaning up the things that

might have gotten missed so that after our vote tonight should it should we decide to vote and move

forward then it it allows us to start fresh what we have to work with with those two new people

coming on and then it won't be so much as some people knew what happened and other people didn't

so I appreciate the time that we're spending to dialogue it any other feedback

okay all right thanks on recommendation three I think we need to be specific that we're talking

about in new city hall it says evaluate the accessibility of first floor restrooms

that add you see in new city hall it's good catch and then definitely keep that the enhancements

should be considered for the facilities so I think we should just say automatic doors instead of

enhancements automatic doors should be considered for the facilities and not to be more welcoming

to be accessible period I mean it's just to be accessible period it is implied that if you're

your facility is accessible then individuals with disabilities can be independent

and not made to feel different is it stuff work yeah Stephanie are you are cute cute up can you

start taking notes yeah do you have the annual report up though okay so the edits are pretty

simple so just at the end of restrooms in new city hall right my computer's frozen up

but I can why can listen to the okay so what we can do is just pull up the report that's in the

in the staff report on the agenda okay and just go from there hopefully my web browser still works

because I don't yeah I'm okay so it's just been an issue I've been having since Monday and it

so I have to restart and then I want to take a recess while you restart um

call the yes

hi can I get a motion then do I need a motion to call a recess in the middle of a discussion

yeah I'd like to call a recess then let's regroup okay sorry it's set of time oh yeah thank you

brand five minutes or ten minutes whatever you it's six 27 let's regroup at six 40

is it okay yeah yeah let's turn off our mics yeah I'm notorious for now mic's pop

we please resume the meeting

okay

I don't know

that's a good that's a good model

well like I was saying this needs to slow this is the hardest work and then it just

as much as we need to discuss

two things tops

yeah

if I can set that dome

do I do I follow some sort of protocol do you just start we can just once she

oh yeah double check yeah

yeah

welcome back everyone we're going to continue with our discussion calendar mr. Gohan

yeah so if I can pull up the document we'll uh continue where we run off

yeah

yeah so the city door city should evaluate the accessibility of the first floor

restrooms in new city hall and so what was

and just as a point of reference uh what we did was we transitioned the way the technology is

being used to reference the document to do our work tonight um with the staff so uh we will be

well we won't we will not be seeing real-time edits we're just going to be making

notation and comments and and those will be uh recorded as we are discussing them it'll be

notated and then that should not if we decide that our recommendations uh discuss today as was

mentioned in the last meeting of everything from this review in this new format at this part of

the meeting is acceptable we'll move for a vote so that this can then be uh captured

and then this is the last meeting of 2025 so i just wanted to put context back into what the

break was for it was to change the format because of the technical difficulties and so so there's

no real-time edit work happening but staff is capturing a more traditional meeting so um if I

could ask everyone to follow along and then i'll call everyone from the speaker queue like we

normally do in more formal meetings

Commissioner Tucson boy so um the comment that i had had so you've added the city hall would be

instead of enhancements automatic doors should be considered for the facilities to be and then

accessible period

any other just were you um was that your comment on that anyone else yes was it automatic accessible

doors no automatic doors in replace enhancements with automatic doors and then should be considered

for the facilities to be accessible and then in the sentence there

and commissioner green bombs comment was to agree yes thank you recommendation four

i think just the i like the we're carrying it forward and i think we should just add at the end

so meetings as a reasonable accommodation and submit speaker slips electronically

so there should be a way for people to submit speaker slips either electronically here in person

or online before if they know they're going to attend a meeting but that's something that we've

discussed as well any other comments by commissioners for recommendation four

here in none recommendation five

excuse me commissioner carpin you put your mic about the recommendation five i was

i had a question about um i understand that there should be a policy for commissioners to make

social media posts using existing city social media channels but i've seen other commissioners

make their own like pages like as as commissioners so so they can share information

in more readily some people like we do find information that is very useful for that can be

useful for the community and we don't want to post our our own media like our own social media

um you know publicly right we have all uh security on it so i was wondering about like

um can there be a policy about that as well or um can that be um addressed in there

commissioner car did you have to that point did you have any

verbiage that you'd like to see in recommendation five that you want to discuss and then

after commissioner car commissioner to sunboy i don't have any for pH right now but that was

just my um thought process for now was it like city should establish policy for commissioners to

make social media posts using existing city social media channels or personal accounts

um i feel like there should be uh official media channel for our department for our

purposes but there should also be which like um the individual commissioners should have their own

pages where they can share information as it relates to their own community because we are in

separate communities right so you may find something for your community and people may follow

from your community right so i was wondering about that any other questions mr. gohan

i mean i would i would prefer that to be end like if there's a social

official social media okay

thank you

commissioner two sorry i just think about a little bit yeah commissioner two sunboy

so uh my suggestion on this um recommendation is that the city should establish a communications plan

for all of its commissions including use of social media for commission activities

and i mean it may be a plan including a policy for use of social media so i just

this is the first time i really i know we talked about it the last time this first time we're

seen this written up so i don't know that it captures what we want entirely because i think it could

benefit more than just our commission the work that commissions are doing so um and so this

i this again you're not going to be able to type this out well and the city should establish a

communications plan for all of its commissions including a policy for commissioners to make

social media posts and maybe i just period instead of saying using existing maybe yeah

commissioner cowards nodding mr. two sunboy agreement commissioner Ellis

yes

yeah i concur with um commissioner two sunboy that was what i was going to suggest is

something more expansive and because and not making it personal because as individual citizens of

the city we have first amendment rights we can post whatever we want to post as you know as me

Keith Ellis i can post whatever i want on social media i can create you know any kind of social media

presence i want and share all the things i want to share but i think what at least my understanding

of the discussion we had at the last meeting was as the DAC as the city and as it relates to the

mission of the DAC we should have some sort of social media marketing presence that um you know um

the that the larger community communities of the city can engage with and that's what i think i

think that's what you capture jesse and not you know leaving it kind of broad at the moment because

i think it's still going to be in flux and i think it's something that could get flushed out a

little more concretely over the over the next year but uh something a little more expansive and it

yeah i think other commissions probably struggle with the same thing as we are

thank you commissioner green ball in terms of post could be my recommendation would be

folks will be or folks are intended to be used um rather than i mean i think could

kind of leave some wiggle room to not even use it at all um or posts are intended

yes and the only other comment i would add is uh to commissioner ellis's point that we

summarized last meeting that having a formalized action plan for communication to be permissible

such that the council member in the district that we serve is now linked to our work

and that bridges more not only transparency but a direct communication that is getting lost

as commissioners compared to uh the workaround that happens when if we're advising the council

but we're posting or having to comment as private citizens so that was the context

that was the genesis of that um recommendation and so any other comments before we move on

okay seeing none next

looks like we're on to key accomplishments

or we could jump to the work plan thank you

uh before we go to key accomplishments commissioner Tucson boy

oh yeah so this is for key accomplishments i was okay wondering if staff wanted to add

the fifth ADA drop-off location that was the latest one yeah yeah you could do that

and there let me like a picture of it and right and also give the city staff the credit for

for you know um when making those changes to fifth street seeing the opportunity and adding a fifth

location yeah yeah that was an opportunity as part of the fifth street conversion project that was

just noticed in the field yeah yeah and i finally figured out where it was when i was driving

because i was confused i thought it was on fifth street but i see that it's on j so

which is a better location than fifth would be was that was someone parked there i went by and

there was someone using it um i don't think no there was nobody parked there which is probably why

i could see it maybe the other time somebody was actually there sounds good commissioner kramer

yes i'm about the the link to the golden one center it like um do we know if that's it if like

the other commissioner just want to see that if it's if it's a hyperlink or if it's easy to copy

and paste just in case they want to check check out check out the golden ones website for the

ADA information

yeah it should be a hyperlink let's say but i don't want to try it no

noted any other comments on this item or that on this portion on this item this portion moving on next

you

beautiful use of images by the way

ranny gets the photo credits for two of them you need me to grab a photo of the

actually have one i think grab it did we put the photo credits on it i didn't do i want i do not need

you know the liner note just saying honestly i emailed those photos to so many people

the reason i brought it up is because it goes to the point right before key accomplishments of

social media posts and courtesy of commissioner to sun void

it's an illustration of the action being taken i can do yeah i can do that i'll see that oh my lord

not necessary but that that is very generous

miss

project reviews commissioner mercer helped me with some

word smithing less acronym heavy

are at least explaining what some of the acronyms were yeah yeah

um

yeah the other thing we had talked about was highlighting um

projects ever and under um what was the term i'm forgetting about under resource communities

um like on the next page there's that bell the bell avenue one what the bell avenue one is

definitely i did that happen that that wasn't that's one that's upcoming though that's not

completed right bell avenue is complete complete yeah i would go over i would just put it in a sentence

because i know that that something the city council is going to want to see that so that like

bell avenue um and broadway and i think another one of them that was listed there are in um

historically under resource communities yeah so i did include that sentence did i miss it i'm

so sorry i know it's there disinvested there that was it thank you yeah so bell avenue and actually

our northwood uh safe routes to school project um would be a good one i could i could add an image

of that one yeah i had these great quotes that were sent i like you added more quotes from last

time so i think that's nice too yeah um annual perspective plan uh brandy wanted a little more

detail on the actual how much was spent there so i added the more uh added that

any comments on now comments on that are the website in the the website yeah

think that captures but okay okay

mr green bum and coward nodding an agreement

mr. card mr. alessia screen shot of the website the silly improvements

these are underway so i think in January hopefully the doors will be complete

please don't have to roll that over to next year

well it's okay if you look in the breezeway there there's you can see the construction team

but they had tarps down i was gonna take a picture but it didn't as soon as a recess then they'll

start or they're doing it now they're all they'll be done i think they'll be done okay

yeah what your choice to tell me so i could come over and get a picture

well and that's oh that picture would be i should have taken i was here on monday and they yeah

they had everything all taped off and they were yeah i'm working on it and everything i could have

been nosy what will they be working on a day in are they done i can i can i'll i'll send you an

email if they are if i find out they are yeah well my comment was if if it be because we are

ahead of all the commissioners to all of the commissions to be resolving this report if there's

a updated like a before and after if it's capricious before and after that we could do it that way too

yeah so it shows the impact that'd be easy enough to pop in the photo yeah

everybody is in concurrence that staff can add up before and after photo

no comments on f or g oops i got the wrong one

for plan

commission for kramer was that on new item about the work plan or is that a comment

you're in the queue is that old oh

i didn't have any any changes for this one on these ones

anyone else commissioners no

for item d i thought that our last meeting

it was the similar comment of the acronyms being described and

also it was fill fill the lay was presenting and talking about how the transition plan will

uh way into kind of the um brandy's comment about aps and audible signals and where they are

with in the city how often they're inspected and that sort of thing that he could

address that in his report back on the transition plan and the g is database

any other comments looks good

do you take a minute to look at e f g and h together and then commissioners if you could queue up

if you have comment

so

so um

i just have a question is it assumed that our work plan

includes those recommendations that we're carrying over that we have made for 2025

that you know that we'll be getting reports or giving feedback and stuff like that

does that make sense should there be a

an item that's you know

oh just just kind of the status of current recommendation item right or are we just assuming

that that's part of what the work that we're doing or should we go ahead and include that

because i'm assuming i think is it is it is it captured because the annual report happens every year

so maybe it's part of the annual report process just the status of the recommendations

i just don't know like

for example a new recommendation has to do with the communications policy

with that with that mean you know perhaps i know i think that there's a step there where i have to

be directed to work on it right so it should our work plan include

something that's very general like standing items of you know concern or whatever you know

yeah to commission yeah to commissioner two so yeah to her point i as we finished the rest of

this edit my and i'll mention it now then is that for 2025 since whoever's running the meeting

can or influences we during the meetings and then whoever's running the meeting as chair

vice chair can influence the order how the meeting is run or things of that nature then

one simple way is to use the agenda against the recommend against the plan that we're

going to vote on that anything that's carried forward then is upon the new leadership of the commission

to design how that's a part of whether it's a just like there is a commissioner a commission staff

report there's a chair vice chair standing item of some kind so i haven't learned all that but

that's a way to use the document that we're drafting to then hand over to whoever there is in

chair vice chair and something interesting for example that i've been researching with the city

attorneys offices you know if if both the chair and vice chair aren't present but everyone else is

here and there's a quorum okay well there's a staff with them the clerk would then lead those who

are present to a vote to then take action so at any moment there can be someone who's having to

assume some sort of reference point to keep the agendas moving forward so so in that regard my

thought of how to address this gap that seems to be occurring in our particular commission although

it's very generous for us to say all commissions need the help well anything related to the DAC

is implied that way that's my personal opinion right but all personal opinions aside to be able to

function regardless of who is if there's a quorum to ensure that regardless of staff there's

action like i was mentioning before then to commissioner Tucson Boyd's point the way that mr

goathen was just saying that there's a carried forward there's the recommendation here's a work

plan then it's up to the commissioners whoever or however they're sitting for to have the work plan

embedded into the report and then decide how they're going to as the year progresses so that anything

outstanding can be reconciled by whoever is next so that's the that was my functional way of

utilizing this activity that we did because it's the first time we ever did it and what to

commissioner Tucson Boyd is saying is to memorialize it in some way so that it can be referenced so

I just wanted to share this juncture that was my vision for being able to go in front of the council

or to work with the staff and then however everyone votes next year I agree with the memorialization

of some somehow but that is the document as well so there's no way to ensure that whoever follows us

in this work would have the same idea so if there's some way to not only capture what's in the report

but to demonstrate in the next several meetings that this was the process that we had we've just

then established the groundwork of whenever someone else has a similar comment or embedding an IT

then any staff would know that oh the historical record shows that this is how the template was

so just putting that out there now the in order to kind of shore up what what would be something to

insert to commissioner Tucson Boyd's point because that's implied and anytime we say something

like assumed or implied it means that we're going to be excluded that's my position on the way

I've approached anything that's been presented if there's an assumption that means it's not clear

and if it's not clear there's going to be exclusion of some sort and that's not a desirable

outcome for any of our constituents so we so that's that's a bias of tone that I'm trying to

work out depending on how we vote on this final document so if I have to enforce something on our

behalf somewhere I want us I want to be able to look at the document too until I'm no longer in

this position so that if we have to advocate for something that is too long and too outstanding

you can memorialize something in the document but counsel as they get voted and they have turn over

or they have needs in the community we can always say well this is something we've always done

so it's to me it's a working every time it says continue forward in perpetuity because that is

bend the experience of any person with some sort of disability is that they constantly have to

repeat the same thing over and over again so I don't want it to be assumed I do not want to see

something written in memoriam of some you know summary and then that sets a tone in the document

that then says well that was then and now what's the new thing that has to be summarized rather I

would like to see things continue on on the document so that it carries over because when a 20-page

document becomes 50 it might garner a different level of scrutiny and that also shows that our

documents are we've been efficient here that's something else I plan to just emphasize somewhere

depending on how you know we all represent ourselves here so I just thought that would be a good

time to mention what's in my mind as we finalize this yeah maybe just in response kind of the way I

view the work plan versus recommendations work plan is items I plan on bringing as standalone

I discussion items for the commission to hear in the coming year recommendations what happens with

those could it could go different ways right it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a

a discussion item that comes back to the commission that year it could be but it doesn't mean it

would be like the Golden One Center wasn't well I guess there was it was it was it's TMP but like the

improvements were or what's happening with the accessibility on the doors I guess there was a

report back we did have a report back this year on that but then there was other items that didn't

get a report back and so which you know which I think is something that we've learned from this

process which is why I asked the question because when this report came around then you were

found yourself in a position to try to find out what happened yeah with those recommendations

so rather than playing catch up later if it and because I don't think these items are reflected on

the follow-up log anymore either right so it's not somewhere that keeps it to the chair's point

current and I mean it I'm thinking something super simple like item I you know discussions around

2024 recommendations as needed you know which just leaves the door open for the chair

ever to put to put something on the agenda or just to for I mean knowing us will probably bring

it those things up and but this also you know a couple of us are going to be terming out so and

there will be new people and this will allow those are I think empower those who are here now but

haven't been here since the since some of these first were put on the on the report the benefit of

like oh yeah no you know the golden one one was obviously you know obviously something that I

made sure stayed part of the conversation and you know I'm just thinking something simple but the

part of the work plan is following up on some following up on past recommendations yeah

I'm just following up our discussions as needed our presentations as needed you know that could be

IT that could be the clerk's office that could be HR you know commissioner Ellis you was wrong

yeah commissioner to some point said what I was going to say commissioner car oh um

just on the same lines I was I was thinking about like how we keep track of these items is it

possible to have a share point site for the like on the city's website I have a

can have all the documents I have a shared document folder that I've shared with the commission in

the past and I'll I'll share it again it has past PowerPoint presentations documents like the

annual report so I was just wondering share point site has like a lot of tracking divide tracking

metrics and you know you can create your list and stuff and I know that city uses state uses it

so I was wondering if that is something that we can like it can you can literally like

was the status of this recommendation pending or in progress oh like a dashboard

like a dashboard something like I think about that yeah commissioner to some point

I was I just like to follow up commissioner coward are you saying that you

were just wondering about it or you're asking to include it as a work plan item it will be nice

to have it included as a work plan okay so we have item I at least we can research on it I'm sorry

you can repeat sorry at least we can start a research on it and see if it can be provided because

I feel like it would be very helpful to everyone and it's easier to um add and remove people from

access permissions etc and I know that city uses it state uses it so it'll be convenient for us without

any extra um extra worker extra it wouldn't require extra burden to the staff and their time

rather the technology would be able to make us more independent to seek the knowledge that

were after and be prepared when we come to meeting and move the agendas for you said it I like

that I could summarize that and commissioner to son boy your point was earlier that a simple line

to include in the work plan uh an item that's referencing those um recommendations that are in

progress or just it generic even more generic than that could you could just clarify an example

of how that wording would be again so it would just be um you know discussions and presentations

as needed in reference to 2024 recommendations something like that um I do want to um

assess out a little bit more commissioner's uh cowers recommendation so if there was a sharepoint

site it literally could only be a place for documents we can't have any interaction with it

with each other so just so to make sure that you know because I mean we got some stuff in email

this last week but it needs to be presented here publicly for us to discuss it right so so that

it would just be a like a reference library is that kind of what you're thinking it's just it'll just be

um um repository for all the documents historical documents and um tracker like the work being done

start us off the work I mean it doesn't have any kind of um chat or teams um or any other

place for comments and stuff right we just we don't have our own projects so that's

I'm not sure what that would look like I believe and if I could summarize again because it's a it's a very

it's worth adding to this document because it's part of a work we need to do further work

so I think what I'm hearing is we're here to advise and what commissioner Cara here

am you saying is the discussion has been there are things being captured that used to be in a log or

uh the staff or the city would have certain ways in which things are filed uh the chair or vice chair

might have a meeting and and there might be a presentation and then there's an email and there

there's attachments so in terms of being more knowledgeable about what we're discussing

for longevity or if our seat is given up instead of having multiple emails to have

documents sent and maybe that's going to be the clerk's process or the staff's process but as a

commission um to explore further in the 2025 work plan what would it look like if there was a

an online easily accessible document reference area to learn more instead of waiting to have

information available and another example that wasn't discussed but I'm thinking of it now as we're

trying to clear it out is so there's a presentation that's going to happen to

to commission or to son boy's point and to be publicly available we're here doing all of this

publicly during a time that we're meeting together for transparency etc so prior to coming if I

don't remember what happened at the golden one center or I'm new and I have no idea what golden

one centers being discussed but I want to be prepared so I can be part of the meeting then we go

to some link that the staff can say here's the link new person and it doesn't require multiple

meetings for then someone to get caught up and also and also it could be to be discussed in 2025

but it could be also a way to have retention to make it easier for commissioners to transition

regardless of who's here and have ease of preparation because that's been a barrier so removing

a barrier with that technology is what I hear in different ways to be included in the work plan

did we capture that in a way that is a little bit more tangible for the intent anyway yeah

any other recommendations any any reason not to include it let me make that point clear

I've been I don't like the assumptions right so unless I don't unless we don't discuss it here

and say no by absolutely do not want to share points site and I don't want to work on it at all

if that that is not what I'm hearing and that's why I'm moving forward but if there is

something that I have not captured that was opposed or not feeling a virtue that was representative

of you then feel free to speak up as we spend our time the rest of this time commissioner

Ellis is this an old cue no it's on this topic I had the same concern as commissioner to some

boy to running a foul of the brown act so and I'm I'm okay with it if if we start out with

being platform agnostic so if we just don't say share point but a you know a document repository

or archive because I will be yeah trying to come in partway through the year and yeah all the

documents are public all the documents are on the website but they're not all the DAX documents

aren't all in one spot so I'd have to go to each meeting and see all the attachments see all the

PowerPoint so it's it it's there yes but it's not in all in one spot all in you know easily

accessible place to find it all and I kind of view and some may disagree with this point I view

this annual report kind of as our dashboard more or less because you take this and you compare it

to the previous and you can kind of see the progress if we add a more of a chart of sorts and

this could be for a future report if we wanted to kind of document it in a different way of more

of a historical I don't because this report is forward looking and historical in ways right is

did we get did the things happen that we wanted to happen oh they didn't so we're carrying them

forward so it does a little bit of both but that's why I kind of look at this document if it's just

if it's a matter of sharing um PowerPoints and documents that have come before the DAX

right I can do that and I don't think it needs to be part of the work plan okay and I've done the

past and in fact when I emailed the commission the draft report it was on that site okay so um so

but newer commissioners may have not seen like the fold there is a folder I've shared and you know

you know you'll have you'll have access reader access to it so I think that captures it's I really

don't think this needs to be part of the work plan agree so there's two different opinions then

and let me I just want to make sure that we're on the same page what commissioner Ellis is just saying

is that there are ways to access documents that staff's duty is to provide okay what I hear commissioner

cow are saying is that to keep track of those efforts being made throughout the year that's gotten

lost and that was part of the discussion where there used to be a log that now has transformed

into something else for many different reasons and that was brought up by commissioner to son void

so without reference at this point in time what I believe we're saying is for item I the DAX

document electronic share it's not the share that's being a question it's be having a work plan

item that allows the commissioner to in 2025 to identify what resources can be utilized for

commission related work and there was discussion that well we don't do any work per se there's no

item of work or advisory so I just wanted to clarify that I I hear that there is something that

needs to be added as an item I that enough discussion has happened that it's work but it's not

document related it's invested it's investigatory of how I'll give an example maybe this will capture it

the agenda's are available online so if you don't have one staff is ready to help that's what Mr.

Gothen's point is if you're looking for something let me know and you'll have access to it but

what is a tool maybe it's not a platform maybe it's just a tool that's approved so that a

commissioner is not having to use their own kind of along the lines of personal concoctions

but a tool that standardizes what communications are besides going to a website and trying to find

a date so it could be something and and hopefully this will capture something that can be agreed upon

otherwise we just have to talk about it at the next meeting and the next annual report frankly

but I'd like to explore this when IT came the two different times to address improvements

they have a voluminous amount of web pages that they have to reconcile that's been brought up

several times and even in today's meeting we discussed how if you go onto the website and do a

search of some kind old things come up and so this is going to be an ongoing problem and I believe

that what commissioner car is saying is similar to having some sort of permission that's unique to

the deck that it comes with some sort of page that makes it easier to reference

beyond an individual's desire to dig into a topic and be prepared is that what I'm capturing

from commissioner car is that is that different or is that being heard as differently by the commission

as being an item a work plan item or is that something to talk about at the next meeting

that's what I'd like to hear from the commission because that's what staff is saying that well

you just tell me and that's my job that's what I'm doing but but what do you hear now as I try

to summarize this at this point and if we don't can't come to an agreement then we'll move it to

it won't be on the work plan is what I'm saying if we can't come to an agreement on if there's an item

I to share on this reporter not um commissioner to some point I think there should be an item I

that allows us to follow up on items from our recommendations I don't know that we need anything

different than what we've already used in the past to work on things or to give staff feedback

um

I'm not against exploring something new but I I mean I don't know that

for me having an item I satisfies my desire to have the ability to follow up on

past recommendations and

which was previously satisfied by the follow-up blog which is how other commissions use their follow-up

blog so we do it differently and that's fine because that works for the people who support us

and bring stuff before us I just would like to have that path

I feel that um commissioner Cal might want more than that in terms of tracking and I don't

know that that's a reasonable expectation that the commission can put on our staff to track those

things as opposed to we've left leaving the door open for me to say hey you know would it be

possible to check on recommendation xyz and if there's anything to share then staff has the

opportunity to just include that in the staff report or if it's monumental enough to invite somebody

to present to us so I'm not saying no to doing something different I don't know that it would

be fair to expect the staff to add a layer to something that they've already used before

that seems to work okay thank you commissioner commissioner Ellis I concur with commissioner to

some point um mr mr gale I just wanted to note that it's 726 and I think the meeting started at

537 if you intended to extend it thank you yes clerk I'd like to thank you mr gale I'd like to make

a I'd like to seek a motion to extend our meeting time to the maximum allotted which is 8 p.m

I believe in an hour an hour thank you that's the wording so moved second move my commissioner

Ellis second by commissioner Tucson boy continuing on so item I we need a real call

to do a real call clerk thank you thank you no worries and that was moved by commissioner Ellis

second by commissioner to zon void yes perfect and then commissioners please unmute um

commissioner to zon void I commissioner mercer I commissioner Ellis I

vice chair cremary I commissioner smith is absent commissioner green bomb I commissioner car I

and chair crawly I thank you the motion passes thank you uh so where does everyone uh to round out

to finish this item or to finish this topic um for the work plan staff and uh two commissioners

have heard it as um existing already is there anything that's being recommended for the work

plan as an item j

well I added I just so that the follow-up log includes the status of past recommendations that's

what I heard yes okay so I can we can do that yeah and I don't know if it needs to be on the

work plan item I needs to be on the work plan item item I does yes okay that's what that's what

everyone would like to see okay and what I'm asking now is uh that's not that's not the subtlety

but what we've summarized is that item I is is recommended to stay related to any other tools in

order to have some sort of tracking or variances of log there are um three opinions that are

enough to suggest that we table the topic of any other item related to um organization of what

commissioners do during their time or like something like a share point for reference yeah reference

tool but but to be part of a work plan reference is deemed at least at this moment not something

for a work plan public document of this kind but is being considered as something to bring up

a tabled item a early commissioner comment and then we can talk about it at the next meeting

agenda wise it even if that's if there's enough strong opinion or emails getting to the staff

on it but at this time is there anything else on the work plan that needs to be added as an item J

or is this content with where we are that's what I'm summarizing it to be is that we've moved on

from any sort of share point or that's share point but to a non branded repository tool can be

discussed further next year unless there's some other yeah okay moving on thank you

so on to pass recommendations so I guess as an example what could be on the follow-up log is

this could be like an attachment maybe simplify it a little bit so before I get to commissioner

comment or anything to her discussion for past recommendations besides this page this is page

which page numbers this of the total report yeah so for past recommendations

um how is this how is this um how is this I'm so sorry I'm tired I'm sorry

does anyone having looked at this from last meeting till now have any changes on wording or

sentence structure for any of the recommendations that's a pattern commissioner Tucson boy I got

I got you so I think there's two items that we changed a little bit the wording when we carried it

forward so I would just request that staff update those two past recommendations accordingly to the

language that we have on the recommendations for 2025 so it was just those edits taking out the IT

stuff and that because again that doesn't that didn't satisfy what the recommendation was so the

edits that we made on do you want me though it's just for reference to show how it was approved in

the past report or you're you're saying to update the language I'm saying to update so for past

recommendation to update the language for the status and for past recommendation

oh okay yeah seven update the language for status yes based on what we discussed earlier in this

yes okay that's fine yep and chair can I talk to the other items yes okay so it's

there are three items three recommendations that say TBD and we received some information via email

intended to address these recommendations I went back to the PMP meeting

February 13th 2024 where this report was presented and relicant to the council members comments

regarding specifically those recommendations those recommendations those comments by council member

valence wea was for these three recommendations to go to be forwarded to the vice chair council

member maivang of the committee which for new work commissioners is a subcommittee of the full council

the racial equity and I don't know the full name of that committee and I did not see anything in

the information that was emailed to us that reflected these items went before that committee was

discussed by that committee or incorporated in any of the training or language for the recommendations

here and as such my request would be that those three recommendations are held over as well for

2025 okay but that's that's my thoughts on those and for though as a recap those recommendations were

so the city adopted a policy to require mandatory DEI training the recommendation was to have

that DEI training for appointed officers and elected officials and council staff to include

disability awareness etiquette which I think is really important we see that almost every month when

we meet here ableists and first person our person first language and self description training for

inclusive meetings I think we could all benefit from that if we should lead by example and I would

appreciate getting self description training the second one is to update the city's race and

gender equity plan and any future plans addressing DEI to include individuals with observable non

observable disabilities and the third one was to invite our commission or representative from our

commission to one of the racial equity committee meetings to discuss and you know talk about how we

view inclusion and intersectionality of disability with race gender and diversity equity and

inclusion efforts for the city so I do appreciate that staff got us some information I saw one single

reference to disability but no references to any of our recommendations going to the committee

being discussed by the committee or any action taken and that could have been meeting minutes or

references to meetings so for that reason I think those three should be part of our 2025 recommendations.

Thank you commissioner. Commissioner Kramer?

Yes for past recommendations on number three I would like to add like third person just because

like just how when other people describe us or other people with disabilities like I don't want to

like you know we don't want someone like let's say someone with my initial dwarfs and walk down the street

and then another person says hey look it's a you know the word that you don't want them to say

so it's I think it's important that we we also recommend training on how to describe a fellow

people with ADA.

And so in summary we have two commissioners that are bringing up the fact that the past

recommendation should be carried forward. But with a modification how do you say that third person?

Yes third person like how others describe person describes another person.

Commissioner Ellis?

Yes.

Where they are as

because that's kind of their historical so I think the previous action is

to reflect what they were at the time.

Sorry. I tend to agree with the commissioner's Kramer and Tucson Boyd.

I think the wording should stay the same as it is under previous because those are historical.

That's what the recommendation was. Going forward I would tend to agree with Commissioner Kramer

that we can add to it for the going into the into the next year is what I would suggest.

Anyone else have any comments on how to present it in the report?

Any dissension of or variance from it? Okay. So I agree it should be in both places.

Both yeah. I was just about to say.

All the other ones were in both places as well.

Yeah. For consistency of so what we didn't have that we're bringing up now is at the beginning

of this report after our pictures and all that we're including it there and we're referencing

it in the past. And I would say.

It was being recommended.

Rather than TBD not implemented.

I concur.

Mr. Colton.

I'm just thinking so yeah.

In the status in the report not implemented in the follow-up log I will make reference to the email.

Right?

Uh, that was the response from their staff.

Yeah. That's the stand. Yeah. That's where it stands.

But it hasn't been formally presented.

Is the dilemma. So the dilemma for us is to say in this report

not presented is more.

No, no, no, not I don't mean for that. I mean, uh, referencing the email is what I'm talking about.

Sorry, I was confusing about that.

I agree with what was just said about TBD changing to not implemented.

What I meant to say was if I'm hearing Mr.

Goath and correctly, there's a ref there's been a response received by email

that we all have reviewed.

But as we were discussing earlier, nothing has been part of any note taking agenda.

It's information that's been referenced and hyperlinked from a different part,

a different department within the city.

But there's been no direct traceable documented in 2024 from 2023 to 2024

until before this meeting.

Meaning in all this time, there is no record of anything.

So the not implemented is from our perspective accurate.

But I was trying to dig a little bit deeper to make sure that what Mr.

Goath and just said about where you're adding the email is clearly understood by everyone.

Yeah, I think yeah, so it would be in the follow-up log that this communication was received.

And then it was passed on to the commission,

you know, not to the commission satisfaction.

It sounds like, but that was, and that's why it's being carried forward as a recommendation,

is status not implemented.

That's what I'm hearing.

If any commissioner to some point.

If I may, none of that information addresses any of the recommendations directly.

I mean, they are a response.

I believe a best effort to respond and show that something was done.

But it does not do that.

And at all.

So, I mean, you can note it that we got a response.

I believe that that staff person was supposed to come and present to us

to me, like two meetings ago, right?

And did not.

It would be a lot easier to ask them.

Did this was this ever on the agenda?

You know, I'm assuming since we weren't sent an agenda or any dates or times that these were discussed or actions

by members of that committee, that none of that took place.

Because that would be the easy way to address the status of these recommendations.

So, and that's, I mean, you, you know, there's nothing you can do with that.

But yeah, I would agree it's a response, but it does not answer our question.

Right. And it does not do what the PMPE's directed to have happen

when they heard our report last year.

So, I mean, I believe the committee, they're peers to each other, right?

So, and to, and if I, I'm sorry,

Commissioner, were you still going?

So, I, what I wanted to make sure that is reflected is that we all concur that the response was received.

We all agree that there is, that the topic is to be carried forward,

meaning whoever's continuing on the DAC, whoever's the staff,

we're continuing it as an item.

So, to that point, this Commissioner Goathen put it in the right context.

It's on the follow-up log.

Similar to what we could say for Commissioner Carr,

the new item that hasn't been forward, you know, some sort of repository, right?

Okay. Therefore, in the report that is going to be published,

not implemented simply means that it, the template,

if something being not implemented, means it's presented at the beginning of the report,

and it's also reinforced as a past recommendation, not implemented,

which allows anyone reviewing the report to highlight that of all the things that have happened

from 23 till now. The hot item of no action taken would then moving forward,

we would be having the reference of the report, the follow-up log, a reference to the email.

So, if all of us were gone and a whole new bunch of people showed up,

they would have the clerk's office support to move forward an agenda,

and everyone would have to study with no repository, no link.

Here's the report from 2024 or 2025 that's going to be submitted,

voted upon in December of 2024. They have the follow-up log from the previous staff that was in

charge of the DAC, and they have the recordings from this meeting, and does that satisfy everyone

to conclude this part of it, regardless of what we decide to work on for 2025 on the day to day,

or month to month. Is that agreeable to everyone?

Because that's what I'm hearing we're saying. Okay.

Great, thanks Mr. Ruggleton, anything else?

So, I think we made it through the report.

So, the recommendation was to pass a motion to forward to the PPD,

but I think there's still some substantial edits here, and I think it might be better to bring it back

to bring a final draft back in January, just capture the comments. Let's definitely

not go over the tape and just make sure we're capturing it. So, I might just suggest we bring it back

in January. Any other comments? An agreement with Mr. Ruggleton? Motion to table it till January,

as an action item. Okay. Second that, and I appreciate your patience and getting on. We all want,

we'd like to get this done, but we also want it to be.

Good right. Really good. Yeah. And I think it, it's pretty fantastic, yeah.

And this, last year we did our first for those of you who are new on the commission,

we did it for the first time. And that, in some ways, was a painful process, but it was a good

pain. And I think it's made it a little bit smoother this time around, because we know,

we know where we want to go, what the goal is. Whereas last time, it was like,

some of us have very stark ideas about where it should go. I'll admit that, that I was one of those

people. And so, thank you, everybody. Thank you. So, that concludes our discussion calendar.

Clerk, did we need to vote for tabling an item? Oh, Mr. Kale?

A continued item. And that doesn't require a vote. I don't think so. Okay. So, what we've agreed

upon is worth concluding the discussion calendar of the review of the draft city of Sacramento,

Disability Advisory Commission 2024 annual report and 2025 work plan. And we're going to continue

this item into our next meeting. So, with that,

Clerk, was there any public comment? Thank you. Thank you, Chair. We have no speakers.

Okay. So, we're moving on to, oh, Commission staff report. You mentioned Mr. Goathen. You did

want to say something? So, yeah, there are two new commissioners that I believe are headed to

the city council. I don't have my notes because my computer crashed, but I think they're going on

December 10th. And so, yeah. So, starting in the new year, we'd have two more commissioners.

I should know. It was provided. I think it was, I think it was district 8. I don't know.

Sustling, can you look? That's a jg of thing. I'll just go on to them. I think it was district 5 and

district 8. Would that make sense? Okay. District 8 for sure. Okay. Yeah.

The next, anything else? Any commissioners needing to say anything to the staff right now?

Okay. Next is on the discussion calendar commission, commissioner comments, ideas or questions.

I'm going to make sure Tucson boy is this an old cue? No. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to do some

boy. Okay. I've got, got my list. First, I wanted to make sure that we have Tim Haley awards on our

agenda for January. We should start. Typically, we're bringing those nominations forward in the fall

and voting on them during this meeting. Yeah, we push, they got come to push before in the past

because we didn't march. Let's try to. And we did it in March last year because we did it in March

the year before because we wanted to do that at our first in person meeting. So we held it over.

So that predates you. Okay. If we want to reset, so always doing it in March, that's cool.

But either way, it should be on the agenda soon so that folks can start thinking about who that

would be or would. So the first time it comes, what, what do you want to just, do you want to

discuss potential candidates there? Or then they, everyone brings potential candidates back at the

next meeting. I think we need to just put it on the agenda to talk about it so that our new

our commissioners know what we're. No, what it is. Okay. Okay. Have a, have a direction. So that's

number one, a number two. You guys selected me to work on the Golden One Center Transportation

Management Plan update. So I will be meeting with city staff and then hopefully

be part of meetings with the Kings on the final plan. I did want to bring up the issue of our,

one of our public commenters last meeting about access leisure. I heard from some city staff that

the public comment was misinformation. My understanding was that this was also brought up at the

Parks and Recreation Commission. They posed similar questions about staffing, programming, and

ratios. And we're also told that that was misinformation. I would like to ask, I don't know if that's

a request that we can have somebody from access leisure come to our next meeting. I'd like to know

what the correct information is. Is there a plan to recruit and hire a new program coordinator

for the position that's been empty since August? Have staff to participant ratios changed and if so,

why? Has programming been reduced or canceled because of these ratio changes? So the feedback that

I've heard is that's misinformation. But I would like, what is the accurate information? So if

we're being told something that's not accurate, what is accurate? Because access leisure is a long

standing program. I mean, six decades, I think, one of the first in the country and it does

cause concern that something that's truly accessible might be being downsized. Is there an

opportunity to re-invision something like access leisure to be truly inclusive, programming throughout

Parks and Recs? I would be definitely supportive of something like that. So I was hoping that we can

maybe invite somebody from Parks and Rec to maybe that could be on the work plan. Maybe work plan and then

I don't know about the work plan. I think that's more of a follow-up log because it was brought up by

a member of the public. So we'd like to follow up. Would seem the most appropriate at this time.

I am not sure the next thing is from Sac PD. I'm not sure if others heard about this, but

Sacramento Police Department rolled out a return me safe program, which is intended to help

loved ones be reunited. It could be somebody who alopes or is elderly, but it's basically putting

your content information on file with the police department so that they can better assist

if somebody is missing. I am going to point out that this would have been a great presentation

for the Disability Advisory Commission. I received an email from Sac PD representative

as part of a relationship that I have outside of the DAC, alerting me to this program.

I know we've invited the police department to present. I would again ask that would be a great

thing for us to hear. I can read you the press release, but it would be nice to have that

presentation. Sac PD has presented to us before. They have, yeah. Nothing bad happened, so

it would be great if they came. This is yet another argument in favor of a citywide 88

coordinator who would be aware of a program like this, somebody touching base with all the

departments and say, hey, you might want to share that with the Disability Advisory Commission,

who is connected and has networks throughout the city, because how is Sac PD rolling this out?

They did a press release. Are they connecting with UCP or different parent groups that have

loved ones on the spectrum, that type of thing? Next is Golden One leadership shared a compliment.

I don't know if Jesse, if you were on that email, but they got some feedback after correct me from

wrong, Zach Bryant concert. Is that sound correct? Does that sound like a performer?

That's good. I'm doing that for memory.

I think I was just a couple days ago.

Okay, so an individual who was assisted attending that event took the time to write a lengthy

email to the King's ADA services, which was shared by the King's Vice President to the city staff,

and I was included on that email, I think to show that some things are working. This individual

was dropped off, had crutches, was quickly identified by a member of the King's staff as

needing assistance. They got a wheelchair for that individual, escorted them to, I guess, services to

get ADA seating, and was there at the end of the event to help them get back to their pickup

point? I do want to share that because that is positive and they were very proud of it, and I think

that's a great reflection on them and some of the feedback that we've given them about being aware

of customer service, not just having the drop off points, but having that holistic approach.

But on that note, I wanted to ask staff if that fifth location has been communicated to the

King's and if it has not been communicated to the King's, if it could be, so they can add it to

their information and their ADA information. I think it's going to be communicated officially

in the comments on the team. Next, I have a flyer, which I will give to everybody. This year

will be the fourth annual Cops and Coffee at Fly Brave, something that I started. This is my

last few months on the DAC, and so this is an opportunity. It's a social at Fly Brave, which,

if you're not familiar, is an organization that was started by a mom, we've awarded her to

a Haley Award, to support her son who is nonverbal and is on the autism spectrum who runs

marathons. And it provides, they operate a thrift shop and will be opening a little cafe

that provides on the job training. They have other workshops and programming that my daughter also

participates in. So this Cops and Coffee is just like it sounds, something that Sac PD does throughout

the city, but this was started by Fly Brave and myself as an opportunity for those who have

intellectual disabilities and developmental disabilities to interact with those who keep our

community safe in a low stress, not emergent situation. So when both parties encounter each other

out in the world, maybe in a high stress or emergency situation, there's less fear, there's more

familiarity and more understanding on both sides what disability looks like. So I'm going to make

sure you all have one of these and I hope you come, there's coffee, there's cookies. The other

thing I wanted to mention, doors not being propped open when we come to the meeting, I really do not

like the idea that we're moving backwards on progress that we've made. I'm certainly hopeful that

that ours are not the only meetings that those doors are propped open for. I do want to know that

the signage that says if you need assistance with the doors is printed in red ink, which is not

advisable for people who have visual impairments. So again, there's lots of room and space for our

recommendations around disability awareness. There's a lot of free resources, disability,

the Department of Rehabilitation, which presented to our commission in the past, will do training

and consulting for free for this city. There's really no reason that we have a sign that is not

an accessible sign for a door that's not accessible. And then finally, I just wanted to

revisit an issue that was raised at the last meeting around one of our commissioners seeking a

reasonable accommodation to attend the meeting virtually and that I would like to know and if

we don't have an answer whether the Attorney General's opinion about remote appearance

being a reasonable accommodation has been researched by the city attorneys and whether they have

determined or made a determination on whether that's applicable to our commissioners and city council

members. So that is it and I'm sorry there was so much. Keith is yielding over to me for this time

just because I want to go over. I think part of it, part of the clarification that was needed is

that there are times that something about something is being implemented over in remote participation

when your commission member as opposed to in the audience that touches on being accessible and that

you have to wherever you're doing you're participating from I'm supposed to announce the public

a gover and join me and that is not always appropriate for people in my particular case it was

inappropriate for other people to be exposed to me but and most of the city council members and

like smudboard members who I've seen doing this it's been because they've had COVID it's not

appropriate for you to go over and ask the public to join you when you are quarantining from COVID

and so some clarification's needed over on that and I'm not going to go over and belabor the point

at belabor that at this point. I just wanted to touch on a couple things the reason why I'm

cutting in here that you would never set the thing about the Accessal Asia program if that is

misinformation it's important that we know too because some of us are out over in the community

we don't have as many of the the caregiver moms over on the commission as we used to but we have

connections and it's important that they know if this is because we know what happens in those

situations which is people hear that there's a problem and then they stop utilizing that particular

service and so it's really important that we get clarification on this whatever the information is

because you know I'm worried that if somebody heard this they'd just say oh I guess we can't go

out there anymore it's not available or it may not happen and or I don't want to drive out and

find out it's canceled or something like that and then I just want to thank commissioner

to zumbod for her work over her relentless tireless useless effort set for on behalf of improving

things in golden one I'm sorry that we've not been able to go over and test this out but it sounds

like by having things in closer it also enables the staff at whatever event to go over and see

who needs assistance because they surely could not see over at that entrance on what was at fourth

street fourth and j that somebody needed assistance so I'm going to just I already made some comments

about how happy I was earlier with the annual report I don't need to say anymore.

Thank you commissioner commissioners thank you and I always love um the commissioner to zumbods

comments coming first because she always has a lot to share it's really informative echo having

follow-up about access leisure it's especially if it is misinformation we need to know

and and to the point again I work for the department of rehabilitation so yeah the department I

work for does do a lot of consultative efforts and would definitely help I mean their blocks

from here so yeah they would definitely be available to address some of the the things that we've

brought up in our recommendations and on our our work plan and I just want to kind of just say it's been

a nice and welcoming return to the commission for me and I appreciate that I really like a lot of

the progress that has been made over the last several years and the momentum that's moving forward

I know sometimes certain things can feel frustrating and you know like you're not going anywhere

but definitely the commission has made substantial amount of progress since I last served in 2016

so I just want to uplift that and that you know it comes to all of us and what we bring to the

commission um the the effort and it makes a difference which may not feel like you're able to make

a difference but I think being part of you know just being civically engaged and being part of the

commission these commissions is really important now more than ever so I definitely have enjoyed my

time and I'm going to continue to enjoy um being a part of these conversations and moving our city

forward so I just I'm I'm being trying to be as optimistic for the future as I can so and this

commission really helps to do that and so thank you all. Are there any other commissioners that would

like to share ideas concerns? I would like to share that um it is to say that we did good work

with or without a log with or without a report in the past is an understatement it is a tremendous

effort of what we just accomplished tonight I am very proud to have been part of the small part of

taking over where Alan left off where Brandy left off where uh commissioner Kennedy I'm sorry

to son boy left off Kennedy uh left off all the commissioners before and including all the various

types of staff that who knows what are those internal conversations about who's going to run

meeting or who's going to take it over and we're just very fortunate to have staff that is willing

to be part of this journey of being seen and heard and touched and recognized um and it's not a small

matter and I think that we all agree that we can be proud as a group uh the members of the public who

come and support us the families all of us uh come yes as volunteers but it's not that it's a sacrifice

to those who are we're already caring for and um as we look to 2025 I feel that all of our sentiments

and there's going to be a release from that pressure valve because if nothing else I really value

the fact that we are able to follow regardless of the um type of backgrounds that we come from

we really have demonstrated to our constituents and the staff that we rely on everyone we're

respectful to each other we're confident in our perspectives we can hear one another we can

resolve things quickly and efficiently and I'm really really um proud of the fact that

if and when anyone ever wanted to use an example of a disability advisory commission on the national

level you and I have researched it and there are organizations and city participations around the

US regardless of whether we have a rubber stamp or not we are operating in a very high caliber

and it's being noticed by our council it's being noticed by the city and there is a shift in

language so it matters during our comments whether it's formalized or not we're here to advise

and that advice is not falling on deaf ears and that positivity with which this report

and the uh presence of uh the report that anybody could present to council is also going to

garner that attention so thank you for being part of that journey but know that without you

it's not possible and so um I'm grateful to be part of it I'm uh there's two words that came up

today in particular uh optimism which I got from uh commissioner Ellis I love that word at the end

of this season and as a beginning farmer uh that's all I have is optimism because nothing is growing

and I cover crop it's not going well but when I come here I feel that things are flourishing

there's energy when when we um have to think about things in different perspectives and the other

thing is integration I thought it was really nice of us to and I learned this from various

conversations but I give credit to commissioner Tucson Boyd uh she's a uh linguist of a different

caliber and I've appreciated that of you um but all of us I've gained some um pearls and if

depending on um how we all want to set the tone whoever's whoever decides to be part of leadership

of the commission as chair and vice chair it impacts the tone of how uh things move forward

and there's value in that so um the other word in integration is that uh it's not just the physical

environment and the openness and accessibility but it's also the willingness to be able to integrate

all the different ideas for a common purpose so that things can move forward and I very much

appreciate that regardless of what we might see and uh for those who might attend in person what

we might see online for comments there's been a lot of hills or peaks and valleys rather of what

we're supposed to do but it's a safe space it's a creative space it's a progressive space and it's

an integrative space so that all those viewpoints uh can be expressed and then followed up on so if

if the integration and optimism is something that we're ending with 2025 with then it won't matter

if it's a follow-up log or a report we've done good work and it's been an honor and a pleasure to

have spent the year with you all uh and I wish you all um uh help a happy will to happy health

and to come back refreshed uh and uh to stay connected and the last thing I wanted to say is

you know something that I always said from the beginning and I think I even said it when I um

came before the P&P uh when I first wanted to be a part of the commission is that um

don't forget that there are recognized platforms in the neighborhood associations and if we all

we did between now and when we come back in January with the two new commissioners is just to

encourage the two new ones to do the same thing that we might I would challenge us to do is to figure

out what's our district because that was embarrassing that we don't know what we're for the two

coming and what seats are we filling because we should have been able to by elimination and I know

we're tired um but is it five and eight or not so let's know what our district is that seat that

we're representing and did we connect with that neighborhood association platform is it there

or not because maybe that'll be some uh opportunity to bring up to council in these in the works of

2025 during our commission reports or others so those were the things that I had to say and uh

with that uh with no other speakers on the queue um I think everyone for their attendance

and I'd like to conclude today's agenda thank you for the participation this meeting is adjourned

you