Welcome to the Monday, June 16th, 2025, 5.30 p.m. meeting of the Measure U Community Advisory

Committee. The meeting is now called to order. Will the clerk please call the roll to establish a quorum?

Thank you, Chair. Members, please unmute your microphones. Commissioner McGee?

Present.

Commissioner Smith?

Present.

Commissioner Sala?

Here.

Commissioner Cook is absent. Commissioner Wolfe is absent.

Commissioner Goris is absent. Commissioner Johnston is absent. Commissioner Novello?

Present.

Commissioner Garofsky?

Here.

Commissioner Paschal?

Here.

Commissioner Fry Lucas?

Present.

Commissioner Rosa is absent. And Chair Georgiouf?

Present.

Thank you. We have quorum.

I would like to remind members of the public and chambers that if you would like to speak on an agenda item, please turn in a speaker slip.

When the item begins, you'll have two minutes to speak.

Once you are called on, after the first speaker, we will no longer accept speaker slips.

We now will proceed with today's agenda.

I guess, like I said previously, we'll go down the line.

Tim, were you willing to do the Pledge of Allegiance and the land acknowledgement for us, please?

Awesome.

Thank you.

May we acknowledge and honor the Native people who came before us and still walk beside us today on this ancestral lens by choosing to gather together today in the active practice of acknowledgement and appreciation for Sacramento's indigenous peoples' history contributions and lives.

Thank you.

Please face the flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Member Smith.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our first business today is to approve the consent calendar.

Are there any members of the public who wish to speak on this item?

Thank you, Chair.

I have no speaker slips.

Okay.

Are there any members of the commission that wish to speak on it?

If not, do I have a motion and a second for the consent calendar?

Second.

Second.

Cool.

And as a reminder, this will dissolve the very quick ad hoc we made last meeting, which was about the presentation to budget and audit, basically.

Cool.

And I guess we'll just do a quick aye or nay.

All members who approve, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any nay?

Aye.

Or abstain?

No.

Okay.

Great.

Then we will move on to our first item.

For the record, the motion passes unanimously.

Sorry.

The first item of the discussion calendar is the overview of Measure U funded departments and programs, specifically the library.

And we do have a staff presentation for this, so if you guys would be so kind to come on up.

Thank you for waiting the 15 minutes.

Chair, members of the commission, thank you for having us here today.

My name is Peter Coyle, and I'm the library director and CEO of the Sacramento Public Library Authority.

With me today is deputy director and chief of operations, Jared Keller, and our chief financial officer, Johnny E.

And they are here to give me backup if you ask me really hard questions.

But before I start, as a resident of Sacramento, thank you for your service to our city and the great work you do.

It's always great to be here and talk with our fellow library users.

And before I start, I would be remiss without giving a little plug for summer reading that's happening now if you haven't signed up.

It's open to all ages.

And if you don't have a library card, search your soul and find yourself at your library to get one this weekend.

They're easy and they're free.

And I hope our presentation will encourage you to get one if you don't have one already.

So I'll begin without any further ado.

Thank you.

We are the Sacramento Public Library, and this last year we began a new strategic plan process.

And as part of that, we looked at our mission and our vision.

And this is our current mission statement.

It varies slightly from our previous one, but in general it's mostly the same.

We changed some words, but it ended up after our exercise to be fairly,

almost the same as what we had before, which makes us think we have a good vision in mind.

But our mission as the Sacramento Public Library is to support our diverse communities' aspirations to learn, connect, and grow.

And that's our goal at the library and everything we do is to help the community do what we do best,

which is find resources and information to educate and entertain.

And so hopefully we can share with you some of how we're doing that with the library and our funding.

We are a joint powers authority.

We are independent from the city and the county.

Our joint powers authority comprises the city of Sacramento, Elk Grove, Eilton, Galt, Rancho Cordova, Citrus Heights,

and the unincorporated part of the county.

The city of Folsom has its own library system, and they are not part of the Sacramento Public Library Authority,

though we do have agreements with them and we share items with them,

but we are not part of them and they're not part of us.

Our governing body is comprised of 15 members of the elected governing bodies of the jurisdictions,

which are signatories to our joint powers agency.

Here in the city of Sacramento, that means five of the council members sit on our authority board.

System-wide, we have 28 locations that serve the 1.4 million residents of the county,

and we have 858,000 cardholders and 2 million visitors annually.

For the city of Sacramento, this last fiscal year, that breaks down to 220,000 cardholders in the city,

and over nearly a million visitors and a million items circulated.

So we have a very robust showing from the members of the library in the city of Sacramento,

and their usage is the circulation checkout and the visitors is on par with the rest of the jurisdictions we serve as a whole.

We are funded through the city of Sacramento.

Part of our joint powers agency designates how the city funds us, and the city is required to fund us through that.

The city does that in two ways.

One is through general fund contributions, which includes Measure U,

and the other is property taxes through our parcel measures.

And so you may be familiar that the city had Measure X and Measure B, which funded the libraries partially.

This last year, we went to the voters of the city of Sacramento and combined those two measures

and extended them until voters rescind it, until that happens.

And that passed overwhelmingly with nearly 75% of the vote.

So the residents of Sacramento, I think, are satisfied with the library usage and showing in their voting for the continuing of our funding.

That funding does have a caveat.

The city is required to fund us a minimum of $7.6 million for those parcel taxes to be collected.

If the city doesn't fund us at that level, those parcel taxes are not collected.

So there's a little check and balance in there so that money is not the sole funding for the library.

So as you can see in this chart here, this is our general revenue for the entire library system.

You can see about 60% of our property of our, sorry, of our revenue comes from county property taxes.

And then about 19.5% comes from general fund of the city.

And then partial taxes, that Measure B and X, which will then become Measure E, is 16.5%.

And the 4.6% is from grants and other funding, donations.

Friends of the library make up a vast portion of that.

And then funding from the state library.

The city of Sacramento, since fiscal year 13, we have just some data for you.

Starting about fiscal year 22, the city switched funding us purely out of the general fund

and started funding us directly out of Measure U funding.

So that has been the case since fiscal year 22, 23, 24, the current fiscal year.

And our understanding is the next two fiscal years as well will be Measure U funding.

So that comprises the $14.5 million from Measure U.

And then we receive the parcel taxes in addition, which makes up the entire funding from the city

to provide library services in the city of Sacramento.

Because we're a joint powers agency, our funding model is a little interesting.

I like to liken it to two pots of money.

We have county money and we have city money.

And the city money is supposed to fund all of the city libraries in the county, the rest.

And then we do some cost sharing and some system-wide cost allocation as well.

So this $14.3 million is what the city provides us to run all of the 12 libraries in the city of Sacramento.

You can see our expenditures system-wide.

A large portion of our expenditures are salaries.

We are a public-facing entity.

And that is, as a customer service agency, not unexpected.

And this is online with standard of libraries across the country.

The next large portion, about 30%, are services and supplies, maintenance.

And then about 12% are books and materials.

And then 2.5% roughly is our capital projects.

Now, what we do with that money is what you're here to hear about from me.

And we have this video, which I'll ask the magic person behind the curtain to play now.

And then we'll talk a little bit more about that.

We'll talk a little bit more about that.

We'll talk a little bit more about that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That's just a little video that goes very quickly through a number of the things that

the library provides, and I'll talk a little about them here.

A little bit, not super in depth, but just to give you a flavor of what the library does.

And if you're not familiar with libraries today, they are no longer the quiet places

of solitary learning.

They are community hubs, and they are active places where collaboration and education happens.

Oftentimes, they're the chagrin of people who are looking for a quiet place to study.

So we have an interesting mission where we have to serve everyone who is looking for the

quiet place to study, but also needs to have a place for the group project to do their

homework.

So we do our best to provide all those things that our customers are looking for, but we

definitely do our best to do the things to help our customers that they're looking for.

Some of the things our customers have asked for is community literacy.

And we find that literacy, we know in Sacramento County, is a big issue.

Children need to read at age level by grade three.

Otherwise, if they don't get that, it's a precipitous decline in their education.

And there is clear evidence that reading level by age three is indicative of college and high

school success.

So we do our best to provide literacy programs.

Our focus generally is on adults who don't meet those criteria.

We have adult English language learners, some who are learning it for the first time, some

who are just learning it to read or to write, but they may be native speakers of it.

And we also do this with our Book First program.

And this is a program funded entirely by the Friends of the Sacramento Public Library.

We provide books to first grade students in a number of schools that are Title I schools.

The students get a couple of books and a visit from their librarian and an encouragement to

come to the library to get a library card.

So we try and help our young learners and also our adult learners.

We also do this through our GED program, which is through the Career Online High School.

And this is a free online program through the state of California that is funded.

Anyone who meets the criteria can receive a GED.

They take the courses and then we have a graduation ceremony every year.

It's one of the highlights of my year to see the students as I walk across the diploma.

Last year we had a student who was so excited she had her son with her as she walked across the stage.

It was always an exciting time to see someone receive that path forward to get a career or

better themselves in employment.

And we have access to all.

We circulate books and DVDs.

We also do electronic resources.

We can stream movies and audio books.

You can check out things from your home and read them at home.

Print items you can request and pick up at any location as well, too.

Also point out the student success cards.

This is a partnership in the number of school districts where the students receive a card

that gives them access to library materials online to help them in their education.

We do that to bolster the school libraries but also to help the students who maybe can't

get to the library in person, whether it's a transportation issue or have an adult to come

with them.

They can still access the resources from school and from home with that e-learning library card.

And that dovetails with our digital equity.

We, during the pandemic, we supplied hotspots and Chromebooks to a number of students.

Those were funded through money through the state and through the federal government.

Unfortunately, those programs on Capitol Hill are being cut.

And there's a question about whether or not that Wi-Fi and those broadband things will continue.

So we, as an industry, are looking towards those hearings and those budgets.

If that funding is cut federally, there is very little that we have in our budget to supplant

that.

They're very expensive.

So we're hoping that there is resources found federally.

There is some state funding, but it is not enough to cover the full width and breadth of that program.

We also partner with a number of our schools to provide free lunch during the summer, our summer

lunch program.

This is open to anyone who's under the age of 18.

You don't have to have any qualifications other than being the right age.

And we have partnered also with a couple of other partners who provide food to provide

box food or ingredients for adults who come with their children.

We have a number of pantries and food resource networks that help provide those as well.

And then civic engagement.

We serve as polling places for the election.

In this last year, I think over 20, nearly 25% of ballots are returned at a Sacramento Public

Library, both in the city and county system wide.

And on those election days, we open early and close late.

That's something we do to help encourage folks to vote.

And those are a way that we can encourage people to use the library as well and learn what we

have while participating in their civic duty.

And I will point out this last slide.

This is a note.

We did some public surveys and did some committee engagement around some projects last year.

And this was one of the best notes that I, that we found.

People feel that the, this person says, still one of the best benefits our government provides

to the public.

And that's a member of the public saying that, not me.

So I'm happy to quote it because I think it's true.

I think that nationwide, in fact, I talked to another library director in a large city the

same size of us the other day at a meeting and, and their city, the, the library is, has

a higher customer service satisfaction than even the fire department.

Not sure if that is here in Sacramento, but I think generally everywhere you go, people

are happy with their libraries.

And we try and keep that here in Sacramento as well, providing the resource and services

that the people need.

And we definitely want to continue to be the best benefit that we provide to the community

with the tax dollars that we're entrusted.

I know that was a lot of information.

I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the library.

Because this is about Measure U funding, and we get all of our funding from Measure U.

It's really hard to, to be succinct, but I tried very hard to do that.

But happy to answer specific questions you might have about programs or services, or take any

comments or suggestions you might have.

Perfect.

Well, first off, thank you very much for the presentation.

I'll let our commissioners speak first.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you both for waiting for us.

And believe it or not, this is actually an easy presentation that we had actually had

during this process.

And thank you for your work.

I have a question, and this is more regarding the Colonial Heights Library reopening.

How is that going?

I see on your website there's not a specific reopening date.

I also see that there is more that's being managed with insurance.

Mm-hm.

So, one, that's one question.

Sure.

And based on that, how are the funds that are being saved or the funds that are not

being utilized for that particular location are being utilized and used but to serve that

particular community?

And I'll tell you this, being honest in this part, I live down the street.

Yeah.

I drive by it almost every day.

And I see the barriers there.

And I see a police officer every so often.

And I don't see any communication being distributed to the neighbors or no service being provided

beyond just a mobile unit that is parked every so often there.

Yeah.

So, I can give you some, I'm happy to share the specifics offline with the schedule and

other things of what we're doing.

Please do.

I will say that because we're a joint powers agency, we don't own our buildings.

They're owned by the city of Sacramento or the other jurisdictions.

So, when that building closed because of the fire, the city is responsible for the reconstruction

of that.

And so, they're managing that process and have that timeline.

It's not something the library is managing.

We are in communication with them and I do understand that they're working through that

process with the insurance company.

But I don't have a definitive reopening date, again, because that's something that they have

to work with their contractor and then provide us.

And we don't have that firm date right now at this time.

Does that answer that first part of your question?

Yes, it did.

Okay.

Yeah.

And the second question, what we're providing, we are providing additional services.

We do have a mobile services that does stop at that site.

There's a schedule for it.

We also have some additional stops at some of the community centers in the area and the

farmers market.

And we've done our best to communicate that with the members in that area.

We work with Councilman Gara's office to provide that information and his newsletters

as well.

So, there are things we're doing.

But what I'm hearing is we're not doing a good enough job of promoting that to the users.

So, that's definitely great feedback for us to have.

And I can provide you the actual schedule if you'd like that as well, too.

And if you can, and this doesn't have to be in the back and forth right now.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just how is, and this is something that I have a curiosity, not only in the library

and other departments.

If there is that case in which service has to stop, how is those funds are then be used

or reallocated to ensure that those folks in those particular communities are still getting

some sort of benefit?

Right.

So, we have redeployed staff at other locations around the area.

So, since that library closed, those residents go mostly to the surrounding libraries.

We've redeployed staff to help in those other libraries to help with the foot traffic and

the increased circulation.

And then some of the staff are doing those outreach events.

And those were drawing from the staff who are assigned to that location.

So, we do use that money to continue library services, but not at that location.

But the staff are still employed and they're still working in that community, just maybe

out of a different location.

Okay.

Does that answer that question?

Yes, but I will wait for your response just because I'm thinking right now where's

the closest library close to that particular area and it has to be fairly far.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's the truth.

And that's my point is that now it has been almost a year and there has been other than

a mobile unit that stopped by every so often.

I only see police officers.

I see some other individuals there, but I see no service.

And again, I use it.

And there was bike service.

There was a bunch of other things that now we're going into a year of not being any service

provided or to the extent that you had when it was open, fully open and functional.

And we don't have a set date to reopen.

Yes.

Yeah.

And how is that money being utilized to ensure that again, it serves those particular neighborhoods?

Sure.

And I'm not sure I can give you much more answer than I have right now, but I'm happy to have

a conversation offline and give you some more details.

Thank you.

That's helpful.

Yeah.

Member Sala.

Yes.

Thank you for your presentation.

And so I'm with District 3 in the South Natomas Library.

And I just want to say that during COVID, the library was so instrumental to our community,

Garden Land, Northgate, and South Natomas.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And you provided internet access so people could take and borrow those, take the internet

so they could bring it home.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The Chromebooks.

But in addition to that, you would allow, because they couldn't go inside, so outside

there's sitting areas and you and kids and adults would be outside with their computers,

their Chromebooks, accessing the internet because you were able to project and make it available

to anyone outside in the surrounding area.

And I would drive by there almost every day before they opened up so people can go into the

library.

And it was very important for our community and our young people to have that opportunity.

So it was very valuable.

And then I was also very pleased when it opened up.

And I see on it's there, it's a children's area.

And it's right in the middle of the library.

Well, not in the, it's to the side.

But it's a vibrant children area where families are there.

Their children are there.

And then I really like the bilingual program, the bilingual reading program.

So our library in our area, we're very satisfied with the services you're providing.

And you're very aware of the diversity of our community.

Because it isn't all, you know, a large percentage are Latinos, but we have Afghanis, we have Vietnamese,

Southeast Asian.

And the program means that you do, you know, is very aware of the diversity of our community.

And it reflects it in the services you provide.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

We loved our library.

Glad to do.

Oh, and I really like, you can rent the e-bikes.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's great because we're really promoting e-bikes in our community.

And if people are hesitant, we tell them, just go to the library and rent it.

And see if you like it, if it fits for you, if it'll work.

And so thank you.

Thank you.

Member Pascal.

Thank you.

And thank you for your presentation.

I was just curious how Sacramento stacks up in terms of support for the library.

Do you have any sense of compared to other similar, like, jurisdictions?

Or do we fund our libraries well?

Or are we less generous than other jurisdictions?

Or is there any way to measure that?

Yeah.

You know, it's, it's, that's one of the issues in our, in our field is that, especially we have a library like us,

which we are technically an independent agency versus other libraries like, I'll say the city of Dallas, right?

That's a city department.

So the funding is different because we have our own IT, custodial, other things, but they may not, but they're a city department.

So sometimes it's, it's hard to compare.

And some of the metrics we use includes number of books, square footage per capita, those sorts of things.

And I would say that some of the thoughts have changed over the last couple of years in terms of how we measure.

And I would say we're probably in the 50 to 75% range, which is, which is not a bad place to be.

I think majority of libraries are below us and there are a number that are above us, but it's also based on the population, right?

We are the 19th largest library based on population in the country.

So, but then the number one is New York public.

And you can't really compare those two because the gap is so large.

But among our peer libraries, I would say Phoenix, Dallas, Philadelphia, those are the ones that I think are closest to our population.

And I would say we're all a little different.

I know that Dallas has about the same number of locations we do.

Phoenix only has 11.

But Philadelphia has, I think, 45, right?

So, even in there, there's a gamut.

But in terms of funding dollar per dollar, I would say we're decently funded.

I think anyone will say we'd always, we've always used more money and there's always more we could do.

But I think in terms of how we're funded, I think we're a pretty good, we're at a pretty good level.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Member Smith.

Thank you for all that you do.

I've seen the programs are operating out of our local library in North Sacramento.

And I see what a valuable resource it is to the community.

During your presentation, during the video, you provided certain metrics of the services that you provide.

Yeah.

Were those metrics only for your presence in the city of Sacramento or were they for?

Yeah.

That video was specific to the city of Sacramento.

Yeah.

That is, we pulled out the numbers for just the city locations and how they're used.

So, the numbers system-wide are much larger, but that was just the city of Sacramento.

Okay.

Awesome.

And you mentioned earlier that you had several different funding sources, the federal funding sources, of course, being at threat, simply because of the political wins.

How will you replace those?

And what are your plans to make adjustments?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, here in California, the federal funding we get in libraries comes from the Institute of Museum and Library Services.

And that's pass-through money to the different states.

And in California, California uses that money to fund statewide initiatives.

And so, for us, it would be the impact we will see is funding for some of the literacy programs is going to be decreased.

Sure.

And some of those one-off programs or the state usually does grants.

So, I'll give an example.

They might say, we're going to give grants to 50 libraries at $10,000 to do a program on this topic, whether it's steam in summer or whatever.

So, those are the programs that we're not going to receive.

So, our general operation isn't going to be impacted.

But some of those ancillary and extra things, those grants that see some of the programs that we do, that summer lunch program, that is money that comes from some of it's state money, but some of it's also federal money.

But that doesn't come necessarily from the same pot of money as the other things do.

So, we get different streams of that.

We won't be as impacted as some other libraries in some other states, just because how California is done.

But we'll have an impact.

And we're still waiting to see, in fact, just, I think, today, the Government Accountability Office issued a notice that the withholding of those funds was not in keeping with the spirit of what Congress said.

So, we're still waiting to see how that will impact us.

I know that we have had grants the state library issued that they had to cancel early because they didn't receive the full funding.

And those were mostly programmatic grants.

So, we won't necessarily be impacted directly, but we'll have to figure out how that will impact us when that does occur.

So, we're in a good position in terms of that, but it doesn't mean that we're going to be able to do all the things we're going to do.

But we will know much more next budget year to see how that happens, because the funding has mostly been dispersed for this budget year already.

Gotcha.

And then, finally, picking up on something Commissioner Sala mentioned, the pandemic.

I imagine that, well, I mean, certainly the pandemic impacted your operations, and I would imagine that it forced you to rethink how it is that you provide services in a lot of different dimensions.

Can you tell me what you learned from that experience and what you can take into the next few years and the potential fiscal challenges that are coming out of that?

Yeah, sure.

I think the number one thing I think we learned is, well, I think there are a number of things, but I'll say a couple of them.

One of them is just the desire people have for the libraries.

It was really heartening to see how much the community wanted the libraries to reopen.

But what we've learned is that we as the library have been providing e-books for over 20 years.

A lot of people didn't realize that, and so a lot of people started to use the library in a different way.

They could access the library remotely with the e-books and downloading the e-books and audio and streaming movies and those sorts of things.

The issue is that those cost us much more than the print material.

Really?

Yes.

And so as we increase the e-book usage, we use more of our budget just because of the licensing.

And there's a long conversation we have in a different setting about that.

It's been a thing in libraries for years.

It costs us $15 to $20 to buy one physical book, but an e-book could cost us $60 to $80, and we're only allowed to circulate that once or for a short period of time, which is usually two years or 26 checkouts.

And so our spending habits had to change.

And so that's something that we've learned is that we have to adjust to meet the needs and the demand of our community, and we're going to have to evaluate what that means in terms of how we're providing services.

One of the things we've done recently is we've switched from we stopped using a service called Hoopla and are devoting that money towards OverDrive or Libby if you have that app.

And that's one of those we're pivoting to try and get more bang for our buck, for lack of a better term.

And that's one of the things we've learned.

Okay.

Fantastic.

Well, I have about a dozen more questions, but I want to ask them so I can cede some of the time to my fellow commissioners.

I will close with this, though.

I have a little library in my front yard.

You guys are supposed to be opening a branch like a block away from my house, so I regard you as the competition.

But I welcome it, and again, I think you're fantastic.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Member Frye-Lucas?

I live in District 8, and we have a new library coming, Martin Luther King, Jr.

We're real excited about that.

Where did we move our library services in the case that that library is going to be under construction for two years?

Do you know if we moved the library services like at San Pinel or someplace?

Yeah.

So similar to the Colonial Heights Library, we'll be providing additional services through mobile stops and other things.

We're not going to be setting up a satellite office or a satellite branch.

That's not something that we are able to do in the time that we have for the construction.

So it will be the community will have to use the other libraries in the area, and we'll be doing our best to do outreach and provide additional services.

We're still working on that plan, so I don't have the actual details.

But there won't be a satellite location or a remote location available, unfortunately.

I see.

Yeah.

Oh, and another thing.

How often do you do that survey, that public survey that you spoke about?

We did that specifically for our strategic plan and our facilities master plan.

So we don't have a set time that we do them.

But as part of our new strategic plan, we'll be doing a lot more of surveys at the end of programs and other things to get more feedback.

So we're hoping to get more surveys more regularly and asking different questions.

We're hoping to get more feedback on a more regular basis.

Fabulous.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Excellent.

Okay.

It looks like no one else has a comment, so I'll take my turn.

I just want to share that, like, when I was a kid, I would go to libraries every week, right?

This was, like, part of the family trip, right?

And I loved libraries, right?

The amount of research that I had available, not to say I could read it all, but it was amazing, right?

It's like a supplement to the education track, and I feel like it kind of formed me who I am now.

It gives you a lot of opportunity that you maybe wouldn't otherwise have.

But libraries have changed a lot since I went, with the digital age, with resources online.

It sounds like you guys are already pivoting pretty successfully towards sort of what the new expectation is, which is more like a community center.

And I'm just curious, you know, it looks like you guys are moving to sort of digital books, but there's some money issues there.

It looks like I saw, like, 3D printers in the...

This is all great.

Are there other things that you guys have planned that, you know, you can maybe spoil to us that would show, like, further transitions to sort of, like, this new age of what a library means?

Yeah, I will say at this point, we don't have anything necessary in the works that's going to be new and exciting in terms of what we're doing.

I think we're focused more on, as we're doing these new buildings, Colonial Heights, King, and the North Sacramento Hagenwood Library, and Elk Grove as well.

Just trying to bring modernization and new technology, building on the practices we have.

One of our very popular things is our library of things, which we've had for about a decade.

And you can check out lawnmowers and a whole bunch of things.

And that seems to be the area where our customers seem to want us to add more items, so we're looking at doing that.

But in terms of technology and things, it's happening so quickly, it's really hard to say what will be the next big thing.

But we definitely have our pulse on that, and we'll definitely try and be as innovative as we can.

But it's really hard to say what's going to happen now.

I think the pandemic did...

Everyone is still, I think, now, I think we're finally to the point where we're back in terms of nationwide of library usage.

So I think that impetus and that eagerness is going to happen and really bring some new things to the forefront soon, hopefully.

So maybe next time I'll have some things to share.

Sounds good.

I guess one of the things that, you know, from my background is in, like, software.

And I rented out, I don't know how many books about software at the library, but C Sharp, C++, all the languages, right?

Made my first web page, I think, at a computer library.

One of the things that I feel like is changing now is, like, you know, there's quite a few software engineers out in the world.

Not that we need, we don't still need more of them, but I think tech, like, trades is becoming more and more seemingly, like, we need them.

We need more of them.

And so I'm curious as to, like, are there things that the library has in mind to sort of, like, bolster, you know, maybe hands-on sort of tech trade skills?

Yeah, that's a great question.

We are actually looking at doing computer, I won't call it help or assistance, but computer skills.

We're finding a lot of our job seekers don't have those skills needed to apply for jobs now, right?

You can't get any job without having to have an e-mail account and fill out a form online at a computer.

So we're developing some programs to help people with that.

But also with our maker spaces and things, we're looking at developing some classes.

You have to know how to program and design what you want to make in the 3D printer, for example.

So we're exploring some of those options as well.

It all comes down to what partners we have in the community that can help us with that and then the cost.

So one of our really key pillars or strategic plan is finding people in the community who are doing these things

and partnering with them versus reinventing the wheel.

Because there are a lot of people in our great community that are doing a lot of these things

and we want to help amplify what they're doing.

So if you know of anyone that's doing those sorts of things, happy to talk about partnering.

Because, again, we are librarians.

We are experts on everything.

We have to find the experts to help us.

So we're very interested in doing things like that as well.

That makes sense to me.

I think that kind of dovetails right now.

Another question I had, which is, obviously, in the cost, personnel is one of the most expensive things.

How well do you guys work with, like, volunteers?

Because I feel like a lot of people would be interested in working at the library.

Yeah.

So we do have volunteers.

A number of volunteers do tasks.

Because we are a workforce, right, we can't have volunteers doing the things that our employees would normally do.

But we have volunteers that do things like shelf books, help with sorting of things, help with programs.

We don't use volunteers at the service desks because those are professionals that we hire.

But we do use volunteers for a number of things.

So we do have them.

And one of the things in the video had some numbers about the number of volunteers.

But I think we had about, well, I'm not going to try and give you a number because it will be wrong.

We do have a robust volunteer program at all of our locations.

And so we do use them quite extensively.

Gotcha.

And then on that note, do you guys do reach out to the community to try to, like, sort of bolster that up and, like, keep that strong?

We do.

Yet we have a number of partnerships with a lot of schools, with students who are looking for volunteer hours, our friends at the library.

We also work with a number of other organizations that are looking for volunteers.

And we do projects with those folks as well.

Awesome.

And then I also noticed in the slides, sorry, I also have, like, 12 questions.

But maybe, Member Smith, if you want to tag in after.

I saw, like, 200,000 books were circulated by vehicle.

And there was 1 million books in circulation.

So I was curious, like, that seems pretty effective, that vehicle.

So I guess is there plans to add another vehicle?

Or is it, especially if we have another library sort of closing down for a bit, having those mobile hubs?

Yeah.

So those mobile vehicles are on a schedule.

Okay.

And they have a route they go to purposely to areas where there isn't a library nearby.

They also do other things like outreach.

They'll go to the Oak Park Farmer's Market, for example.

So those vehicles also help us with those outreach for those locations that are closed.

And how many vehicles are there?

We have two electric bookmobiles and then a couple of smaller cargo vans that we use.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

And then I guess one of the things you mentioned is, like, we do the best, or we do our best to do what our customers ask for.

And so I'm curious as to, like, how you gauge what customers are asking for and, like, how you, yeah.

Yeah, so part of our strategic plan was we did community forums and people gave feedback.

They shared their thoughts on what they wanted from the library, what their thoughts of the services were.

We also get feedback directly when customers tell us things.

Our staff send those to their supervisors and we talk about those plans.

And then we get contacted by users via email with suggestions.

And that's one of the other ways we hear from people.

Yeah, I think I actually remember filling out one of those surveys, and that's why I found out you guys actually have tools that you could take out.

And I was like, whoa, that's cool.

Pretty unique service for a library.

I guess the last thing I want to ask is sort of, like, how would you measure success for the library?

And, like, you know, as we come to a time of, like, budget deficit, like, maybe numbers are, our budget is crunched a little bit.

I even saw that you're going to, your budget is reduced by $2 million in 26, 27.

You know, efficiency is sort of like a tenant that we've all been talking about a lot because it's like we have to, we don't want to reduce our services, but we have to reduce the amount of funds that go to those services.

So how do we become more efficient so we at least stay at the level we expect?

So I guess what I'm asking for you is, you know, how do you evaluate yourselves?

How do you try to continuous, like, approach continuous improvement, et cetera?

Yeah, you know, there's a lot that you ask in there.

I would say that one of the ways we measure our success is just our statistics, right?

We have seen people come back to the library.

Our door count has gone up.

Our circulation has gone up.

The use of the library has gone up.

And that's one of the things we're also struggling with is how do we know if people are happy with their library?

And so this next year and two over our strategic plan, we'll actually be doing more feedback and asking for surveys and asking for that input because we really don't have, we don't do a good job of measuring that, quite frankly.

And that's something we want to improve because we like to think we're doing a good job.

But unless we're asking, giving that feedback, it's kind of a shot in the dark.

We can make assumptions based on the data.

But just because you're checking out books doesn't mean we have the programs and services you want.

So we're really going to be trying to get that feedback from the community the next couple years with direct feedback, surveys after programs, and then some online surveys in our newsletter as well.

Sounds like you guys were also comparing a little bit against other cities that provide libraries.

Yeah, and like I said, that's always little apples to oranges, you know.

So we try to focus on the wins we have here and how we're serving our community because, quite frankly, every community is different.

And a program that works in one of those other cities may not work here just because it may not be what our community needs.

Or there may already be a community partner who's doing a really good job and the library doesn't need to do that program.

Sure.

Yeah, I'll just end on, you mentioned that Wi-Fi may be at risk.

And I feel like, to me, that seems like pretty important service for the library.

Yeah, that federal Wi-Fi lending is really a big issue for schools and libraries.

And that funding is possibly going to go away in the next year or two.

So we've actually been, lots of conversations with Congressman Doris Matsui.

She's really big in that area.

And so she's fighting that fight for us in D.C.

Okay, cool.

Glad we have someone fighting for us.

Member Drozdki, did you want to go?

Yeah.

Hi, I just want to say thank you.

The library is one of my favorite services.

And I'm never going to complain about a Libby Holdweight ever again, now that you told us that fact.

That's pretty mind-blowing.

But I just wanted to, I have two hopefully quick questions.

So is there a way for communities to request for a vehicle to come to their area that might not be served?

I know you said you try to go to places that don't have a library nearby.

But if there's communities that maybe aren't getting it that would like to have it, is there a way to request that?

Yeah.

On our website, there is a, there's a request for either a specific event or just a general contact.

And we do evaluation of our routes and what other things are available.

And we try not to change them too often.

But as we evaluate, if there's a spot that would be good, we would take that into consideration.

So yeah, there is a way to do that.

And I can actually, I will actually see if we can get someone to reach out to you and get that information from you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And then, you know, you all do so much to support the community.

My question is, what are some ways that the community, I know we talked a little bit about volunteering,

but what are some ways that the community can support the library?

You know, I honestly, at this point, I think the continued support of the library in terms of, you know, the election,

75% of people passed the ballot measure, which is a great way of support.

And I think just keeping the First Amendment rights in mind and speaking out against the efforts to ban books across this country and in the state even.

We were lucky in the state to have the Freedom to Read bill passed last year.

And then efforts to censor books and privatize libraries, which we saw in Huntington Beach, have failed.

So those things are still happening in our state.

So as our Sacramento residents keep their eye on those things and I would say join the Friends of the Library.

They often connect people to those issues.

Whereas we as a library can't publicly.

They often are able to galvanize the support in ways that are more effective than we as a government agency can do.

Thank you.

I'm member Novell.

I want to go back to a point of question that you asked and it was my original question, but I want to make sure that if you can enlighten us and really get us to an answer.

And I want to go to your slide page, the seventh slide that points out that a $2 million difference between 2025 to 2026.

How is that going to impact not only your budget and the services that you provided and how is that something that is coming from the city manager's office for you to make that cut?

Or is that something that you're doing, you know, goodness of your heart?

Yeah.

But also how not only you, how is that going to impact your services and what you're doing and how are you going to buffer that?

Because essentially he just asked you how many cars you have on mobile units.

And I also see her map of that PowerPoint and I only see, sorry, going back to Columbia Heights.

That single library right there, huge territory.

How are we managing that and why is it that you're taking that cut?

Yeah.

So we, as I said, the city is required to fund us a certain amount to get the partial taxes.

The city is the one who decides the funding that we receive.

And the city is diverting $2 million to cover costs to complete construction of the North Sacramento Hagenwood Library and the Martin Luther King Library.

Got it.

And we are covering that with savings that the library has had from the pandemic and some other additional cost savings we've had that we haven't spent this last year.

So we are making our, we are filling, backfilling that to continue our service level without making any cuts.

Awesome.

But that is a structural deficit that the city will have to address in the next couple years eventually.

But we're able to cover it this next couple years.

Awesome.

I appreciate that.

And then the other question you had about the map.

I'm going to go back here and see if I can.

So this map that you're, somewhere it's here.

What page is this on?

Four.

Here we go.

Four.

I pushed the button too fast.

Sorry.

There we go.

Yeah.

So that only shows the city location.

That doesn't show the county.

So on the other side of the county line, there are a number of libraries that may not be as close.

But that's, that's, the data shows that those Colonial Heights residents use those libraries as well.

And so we know that they're using those libraries and that's, that's how we're able to help support them.

But yeah, it's not in the city, but that's right on that county line.

And there are a couple libraries, at least two county ones that we know that those users use also.

So even when that building was in operation, those had high usage as well.

So that, that kind of informs our, our, our, our efforts because we can see who's, we can see generally who's using which libraries.

So we know that that community is not fully, is using library, but not in the way it had before, but they still have access.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

And just, I actually just want to quick clarify, you mentioned that if the city, the city has to pay like 7.6 million, I think it was for the parcel tax to be in effect.

Is that number static or does that grow year for year or how does that work?

Um, I want to give you an actual answer and I, I don't want to misspeak.

Yeah.

Johnny or Jared.

Yeah.

Technically that number is static.

The city does have the right to revisit it based on the CPI, but that's the static number at this point in time.

Okay.

And we're not really close to it.

So there's not really concerns about it.

Yeah.

And then it also looks like the city only provides not even half of what the taxes collected for the library in terms of like the fund overall.

So it should be, we should be okay with that $2 million loss, for example, that we have coming up.

Temporarily.

Yes.

Temporarily.

Yes.

Sure.

Okay.

Sounds good.

I mean, I don't think there's any more questions on the commission.

So thank you so much for coming.

We really appreciate all the information that you were able to give us.

It sounds like you have a couple connections to.

Yeah.

And I have some names and I'll leave a couple of my cards here if people need to reach out to me.

And if not, um, Ash can help you get ahold of me, I think.

Great.

Great.

Thank you.

And is there any members of the public who wish to speak on this agenda item?

Thank you, chair.

We have no speaker slips.

Okay, great.

Well, thank you very much.

Thank you.

I really appreciate it.

Um, with that, there's just a receiving comment on that.

So we'll move on to the next item, uh, which is, uh, alignment of city department, uh, presentation metrics with measure you programs.

Um, I'll do a quick intro of this one.

Basically, uh, the metrics ad hoc met, um, in the past, uh, in the past month.

Um, and we discussed quite a few things, uh, mainly about how we want to proceed, um, with, you know, evaluation of all the programs.

Um, and so we kind of aligned on a few things.

And we thought there was a few things that we wanted to bring to the committee.

Uh, we do have quite a few absent today.

So, um, we could try to keep it pretty quick.

Um, but essentially this is sort of a recap and I just wanted to bring it all to you, which is we all felt it was very important.

And I think everyone here would probably agree that, um, the ability to evaluate programs on impact to the community is sort of what we want to be able to do.

Um, and then transparency and accountability, which includes efficiency and, like, full-time, uh, staff cost, I think was very important.

Um, so just getting clarity on where the funds are going as well.

Um, and then a third point was ensure the programs align with Measure U's purpose, uh, when it was adopted.

Although I think this one is quite hard since, one, the Measure U language is broad.

And I think we have sort of a little bit, you know, not disagreements, but just, like, different perspectives.

Because it is so broad on what this actually means.

What does Measure U's purpose mean?

And how do you know if something is aligned with it or not?

Um, but we all agreed that...

That our recommendation would be that there should be something reported that satisfies this sort of, like, impact measurement.

Uh, I think we...what we didn't necessarily agree on, though, and I'd love to hear thoughts, uh, from the members here, um, is what that is that we are collecting.

Because there is this point of, you know, we can...we can propose something.

But, of course, we are not the experts in each one of these programs, right?

There's many people who work on these programs day in, day out.

Um, and so they were...they are the experts, right?

And so it would have to be a strong collaboration with departments and staff.

But, um, one member, when we were discussing this, was sort of, like, well, I feel like we could probably come up with metrics, like, infinatum.

But, like, wouldn't necessarily get to the root of the problem.

Or, like, that thing that we're trying to evaluate, uh, which is the impact.

Because it's just so hard to measure.

Um, I...I think there's some other people who felt like...

I think if we work with the teams, like, the departments and the staff of these programs,

we would be able to find some sort of, um, metrics that at least we feel, uh, the community would like to see.

Right?

So maybe we would like to see it, but then also the community would like to see it.

And so I kind of view our purpose here as, like, we'll propose something, but then we would welcome adjustments from the staff.

And then it would be sort of Measure U's purpose to be, like, do we think that the metrics that were...goals that we agreed on are important to the community?

And if they're important, then it's probably satisfying the goal of meeting Measure U's purpose.

Because that was kind of the original purpose of Measure U.

It's, like, to have important community impact.

Um, and it is subjectively evaluated, but so be it.

Um, but, I mean, I wanted to sort of pose that to everyone here and then sort of get a sense of, you know, uh, you know, what everyone thinks would be the next steps.

Um, and I can share my ideas what that is at the end, but, yeah.

If anyone has thoughts.

I have a thought.

In the organization of all this...

Oh, go ahead.

Turn it on.

Okay.

Turn it on.

Thank you.

Any organization of all this, Teddy?

I was wondering, um...

Well, I would like to request that we put together a calendar also for next year.

Because I feel like I've been swimming backwards.

And it's not real comfortable.

I don't feel efficient when I do that.

So I know that there is a calendar that Audit gave us.

And I would like for us to consider putting together a master calendar for next year's.

Uh, so that we're, first of all, on top of things and organized.

And not getting a lot of anxiety about not having discussions.

We can anticipate them.

So that's a suggestion.

Yeah, on that note.

Uh, sorry.

On that note, I can just, uh, quick responses that we did talk with Pete Coletto at the budget

and audit meeting, uh, last budget and audit.

And he said that he was, as well as, um, his staff were interested in meeting with us much

earlier in the process.

And so, yeah.

I mean, I think this has been, like, sort of a plight of this commission for a long time.

Way before I joined, maybe.

Um, where, you know, the data that we would be asking for, the meetings that we would have,

like this, coming after budget, for example, right?

Not ideal.

Um, so really we should be having these sort of meetings almost at the tail end of the year,

or like February, March, the latest.

And then we have, like, two, three months to, like, discuss and collect thoughts.

And so I think, you know, in combination with ASHME, we can develop a calendar that makes

a little bit more sense on that front.

Yeah.

Um, so hopefully next year is a little better.

Yeah.

Oh, I knew it.

Yeah.

Good.

Uh, member Novello.

Um, I'll, I'll repeat what I mentioned during our, our, our meeting.

And it really goes into making sure that we set up the, um, foundation of what is it that

we're evaluating.

And what are the specific data points that we need to at least consider, understanding

that each one of the departments operates and there are different things that they do.

That may have different outcomes.

And then it goes into the quantitative and the qualitative type of work.

But I think when it comes to at least the minimum, which you have it.

And similar to what is being done in the dashboard that can be, uh, fed in that regular basics.

So we have both from how the money is being allocated and what is the actual output of it.

And that way we not have, we don't have to wait until data is given to us.

It's something that is being done.

And I mean, it should be part of the public, uh, you know, notice or it should be public regardless.

But then it goes into something that I think we don't know if we can request this from, um, from, uh, from staff.

And we probably need to do a little bit more digging.

And so what is it that is already in the works?

How is it that all the departments are managing this so we're not adding more into what you're doing?

Um, and or what we get is a structurally sound.

So it's not.

Added.

On top of everything else that you guys have to deal with.

Meaning that, um, you know, when there is an application for a grant.

Um, I know that there's, uh, specific reports that are being collected at least in the quarterly basis by staff.

Is that something that can then, for instance, if there's a grant coming from, from this particular background.

Um, it's given and awarded.

There is those expectations that need to be met when it comes to reporting.

Can those reports be then uploaded automatically to this touch board or some, or be communicated to us.

So we can understand what is the actual impact of that particular, uh, grant per se.

Uh, whether that is, you know, people who attended that event.

Uh, number of households that were served during, um, uh, with that particular fund.

Uh, we can, you know, try to figure that out.

But at some point, um, one of those who believes that we have to standardize that process across if possible.

Um, in alignment with what's going on with every, uh, every other department.

Rather than isolating ourselves in where our, um, uh, uh, uh, our demands of our, the way in how we evaluate this.

We'll add on to staff, uh, work and then more funding is going to go to that.

And it's just not going to play well, uh, in the long run.

Yeah, I completely agree.

Um, number Smith, do you want to go ahead?

Um, so first things first, uh, um, I, uh, have to apologize for missing the meeting.

Um, a couple of weeks ago, I implemented, uh, spam filters, multiple spam filters on my email account.

Uh, because one just wasn't cutting it and apparently two is cutting it a little too well.

So, uh, apologies.

The invitation got lost in the, in the ether somewhere.

Um, that being said, it sounds like, uh, what you're suggesting, um, Commissioner Novello is potentially funding outcomes as opposed to programs specifically.

I mean, we, we, we, we set up, it's, it sounds like what you're saying is that we should identify a set of priorities that we have and a set of outcomes that we'd like to see,

see that align with those priorities.

And then as city programs come to us, particularly in light of the budget deficit and declining revenues and whatnot, um, fund city programs that.

Have outcomes that, that, uh, roughly aligned with what it is that we're trying to do as opposed to setting out and saying, um, more people were interested in funding libraries than, than police services this year.

Um, am I reading you right or.

I don't.

I probably, I, I, I, more, more, more to add.

I, at some point what I'm trying to bring is, um, an equity component to this.

So how can we standardize a lot of this particular, um, uh, processes so we can then have the data, uh, to best serve our purpose, which is provide that, uh, you know, uh, recommendations to city council.

Um, because at this point.

Um, because at this point.

Um, which is given of your funds are given or, or, or funding this.

FTEs.

And that's all we see.

Right.

We're not seeing beyond that.

And I know that there might be more in that.

That would probably just need to do more digging or we need to figure it out.

Again, and even on that sample that I give you on, on, on, on, on grants.

There are reports that are expected out of those grants.

And if they're not.

Can we request that?

Right.

Right.

Okay.

So.

Along the same path.

So I'm, I'm not saying let's just, let's just figure it out.

What's the structural, you know, base that we can set that we can then start to make those decisions or make those recommendations from a more educated standpoint, um, rather than they sounds good.

Let's just recommend this instead.

That makes sense.

That makes sense.

Uh, member Trotsky.

Yeah.

Thank you all for, um, the work that you're doing.

I think this is a good conversation.

I think it's difficult because you know, it's blended with the general funds.

So it's hard to specify what, you know, if you get a grant, you are required to say specifically what you're doing with that grant funding.

Even if you're braiding funds and blending funds from other grants and other sources, you still have to say what you're doing with that.

It's a very difficult with measure you because it is blended with the general fund.

So it's hard to always tell what specifically is or is not, right?

It's just, we know money's coming from measure you for this.

Um, I'm also sensitive to the fact that, you know, this is, um, something else than that folks have to do, right?

And so if there's too many requirements around reporting, now we have to think about, okay, well, do they need an FTE or a half of an FTE to be able to support the metrics, um, and the reporting, which means less funding is actually going to the community.

We have this fantastic dashboard, um, and it has the status of the program on it.

But what's interesting is, you know, I see what's on here and then we've heard from multiple departments, um, and they've given reports and I don't see that same information reflected on the dashboard.

But they're clearly collecting the data, right?

We're able to see the numbers.

We're able to see the funding, the amount of people served, the amount of community events that have happened.

And so I think maybe even just something as simple as how can we get that information that they are collecting and they've presented to us filtered over in a, on a more regular basis, um, and maybe put into the dashboard would be a good first step.

They're clearly collecting the data, it's just not getting added here, um, or being collected on a regular basis.

Um, member Freilukas.

I was just going to say when we were talking about a standardized part of our metrics, I think, uh, FTE will be standardized because that's an ongoing issue so we can, um, develop questions around that.

What's most important for us as an advisory group is that we ask the same questions the same way every time we ask them.

That's like essential when it comes to gathering information.

And then there's some standard things we can do across programs.

But definitely the FTE is a standard dialogue.

Yeah.

Um, so I, I highlighted a few things, um, that I wanted to mention.

So one, I think, Member Smith, you mentioned sort of like fund city programs that align things, or that align with the things we want to do.

I think the, the Max would be probably, he's not here, but I can probably speak a little bit for him that he would say that like if they're not aligned with the things we want to do, we shouldn't even fund them.

Right? Like that would be sort of like to be more extreme.

Um, I don't know if I'm that quite, I'm like I'm not there yet, but I do agree that like with, through this data, we should be able to determine like the efficacy of these things.

And like, I think ethics, efficacy aligns with the things we want to do, right?

Because we want to be effective in the things that we pursue.

Um, I think metrics have a cost.

Obviously this is a, this is an important point.

Um, and as you mentioned, there are tons of metrics that are already collected.

And when I presented this to budget and audit, not this last time, but the time before, um, one of the things that the council was pretty, uh, I guess like, uh, respect for like, or appreciated, I guess, or appreciative of, is that we, we gave the idea that we will start with only metrics that are already collected.

So we won't add work to staff.

It shouldn't be like an extra full time employee.

Now there is like a little bit of a cost to take that metric and like put it in our quarterly report.

But like, it's pretty minimal, hopefully.

Um, and, and that should be like, and then if we wanted to propose new metrics to collect, that was when we would go back to budget and audit again and be like, hey, you know, this is what we have so far, but we're looking for like this additional few things.

So maybe one of those things is like the standard date standardized part of like the FTE cost percentage of what you've gotten or something like that.

Right. And then it's like, we go to a budget not again and they'd have to prove that at that point.

I think the right now there has been no, um, like, uh, nothing went to city council, meaning nothing was like officially gov or like dictated, I guess, to staff.

But there's sort of this, uh, approach right now, which is like, we have a good working relationship with Pete and the budget department and other departments as well that it's like, okay, we're going to have a good working relationship with Pete and the budget department and other departments as well.

That it's like, okay, there's a willingness to work here on this. And so that's what we're working on right now. Um, and I think, you know, we should have respect for like that. Yeah, metrics have costs and like sort of approach it from that perspective. Um, so I agree with you.

I think the right next step is to sort of say, how do we take all those metrics that they're presenting to us, put them in this sheet ahead of time, maybe even as you mentioned, sort of like before anyone presents, we should know what the metrics are and what the data is and what the goals are. Um, and see if they've met them.

And we would have that data then very early. And so we wouldn't have all the problems that we're having right now if we don't have time to discuss.

So it seems like that would at least solve a lot of the things we're trying to tackle. And if that's like the one thing we want to sort of focus on at the moment, um, I would definitely be in support of it.

And that would be on the metrics ad hoc probably to like wrangle that data a little bit to be like, we need like this thing that you collect from this slide, put it here in this, in this row.

This one you collected from this slide, put it in this row, right? And we just have to go through and actually do that sort of grungy work. But I think it'll be worth it.

Um, are there other thoughts? Yeah, a member of no, no, no bell or no bail.

Sorry, you brought something up and that triggered something in my head. And maybe this is part of the ad hoc that we probably need to dive into. And probably if we can, it can be added on or be provided by the next time we meet.

Can we get that at least the template or the standard application that folks fill in when it comes to grants, um, as well as record, uh, reporting that we will understand specifics of what is it that is, uh, being provided to you to, to the city, um, in through the initial part of the process, as well as in that reporting part of the process that we can understand what are the specific fields or what are specific data points that we can then measure because it's already been

collected. Um, if that can be added, uh, or be provided to us, uh, that would be appreciated. And, and I will say this because I, it, it, it, it wouldn't, it, it wouldn't be fair if I, if I don't say this, the issue that I have with FTPs, um, and more, this is more, I think a little bit more personal to my community. Diversity in city staff is an issue. And if you continue to tell me that our money is continued to be added, uh, to be spent, choose on FTPs in a

way. And I'm not getting anything. And I've seen that report that not necessarily come from city, but comes from the news on what FTPs are and how the lack of diversity in those FTPs, that's what I have the most issue. So I want to see not only the number of FTPs, but also the actual, um, outputs that those, um, that has been, um, you know, reached or accomplished.

I think that you just suggested, uh, um, a solution to the problem that you just found, um, by way of your verbiage. Um, as we look at what it is that this commission is supposed to do, maybe we should focus on defining the outcomes and ask the departments to define the inputs, throughputs and outputs that, um, are going to achieve the outcomes that we want to achieve.

And that by doing that, you know, if we specify that we would like to see more diversity in the city's workforce, for example, um, as one of our, as one of our outcomes or in the city's workforce, that defines that, that serves defined communities, for example.

Um, if the city can tell us how they're going to do that and how they're going to achieve certain outputs, I think maybe, I mean, you hit the nail on the head with you, with your last remark.

Um, you moved away from outcomes and unspoked outputs.

And I think you may have, you know, I mean, good luck with that.

We have been having this conversation for a long time.

And I'll tell you, there has been at least two or three hires that I had the pleasure of meeting pretty high up and some middle and some in the lower tier that are coming from LA coming from other places.

I'm like, there's folks in our backyard that could be hired and could be part of those FTPs.

Yeah.

So that's what my concern is, is that we continue to bulk this issue or we continue to bulk all these funds.

And a lot of the charts didn't look different.

Salaries and, um, it's that number one spends out of our, out of this particular fund.

So FTPs.

And consequentially, and I'm not going to ask for this report right now.

Um, if our workforce is not represented or the people of Sacramento, that's what I have my, my, I have a big issue.

And we just heard that, you know, hopefully they go to the other libraries out of people who are at Colonial Heights.

I mean, and how is those funds are being utilized?

Yes.

Uh, member Sala.

Yes.

Um, I think a year ago, the audit city auditor produced a report.

Um, on the diversity of the staff for city.

I think it's when you're, you, you should ask for that and look at it.

Um, and the thing that struck me.

So it's like pyramid.

It's a lower level staff are diverse.

It's the entry level lower.

Yeah.

As you go up that pyramid, the diversity gets less and less.

And definitely management is not diverse.

And there, and, and, um, all managers in case an executive, most of them are not diverse.

It's, it's either, um, white women or white men.

And, um, and so when that caught me by surprise and I did have a meeting with a council member to ask like, what's the plan?

This is, this was presented here at city council and there's off, so obvious.

So where, what is the plan to address that?

And I got a bunch of stuff, but no plan.

So I think the point is that if measure you, like with the library, we're funding completely.

So there won't be.

So sometimes with the FTS, what do I, we've heard back is, well, it's hard.

Some of the FTE is funded by measure you some of his general fund.

And so teasing that out is difficult.

But for those programs that we know, those FTS are completely funded by measure you, we should be asking that it'd be diverse.

We saw it in the fire department, police department, library, and so on and so on.

Um, and you can see that if measure you is funding these positions and there are not diversifying that, then we're not going to get to a point.

What, what you are saying because their managers or higher level individuals are making decisions, programmatic decisions that don't reflect the needs of our community.

So, and that, that was just so I, I think it's, it's worth looking at that report.

It's very comprehensive.

Well, it's online and it goes, it's a dashboard and it, it, it goes through all.

I'm familiar with that.

Yeah.

Uh, member McGee.

Commissioner Novella, I just want to say like, thank you, like for being here at the table.

Cause I think in all that we're doing, we are only to advise, right?

So it's for actual council to really take that.

And so as much work and transparency that we're trying to rigor, really it's rigor that we're trying to put into the program.

That we're trying to put into the processes for this commission.

You know, I, I, I'm just pleased that our mayor has you sitting here, you know, because these are the things that we can't change.

Like we can put as much rigor, we can have as much data, we can demand, you know, as much feedback to really inform.

But we need the partnership of the mayor's office of you to really, um, push against the grain.

Right.

Because again, like what, you know, um, commissioner Salah was saying, you know, um, the people that make the decisions don't look like the city.

And they're not, and I don't know, it's an assumption, but are they even aware, right?

Not only look, cause you don't have to look like the city.

You can be very well informed.

Right.

But there's so many lenses to get to that.

And then that's what we're pushing against.

And I think that we are trying to, um, come from a place of equity and inclusion.

Um, just like I always say for district one, right?

Everyone says, oh, district one has money.

Well, I live in district one.

Right.

And during COVID, I told the story that I had to take my daughter to South Atomus to get services when I was in a reduction in force unemployed.

I could not get any services.

Like there's nothing there.

Right.

So again, that's what for me, I'm talking about, right?

That's the lens, not looking at what appears to be.

And in our dashboard, there's a lot of that as well.

It's peeling beyond what appears to be to look at really what is.

And what appears and what is can be very different.

So I just thank you for your partnership and really hope that you see our efforts as a commission to put in the rigor and the data and the informed use of Measure U funds beyond what it looks like.

We are looking to look at the reality of what the community really needs.

So thank you.

Yeah, I kind of want to add on to this, which is I've actually, I feel like I've seen diversity be used as like a way to get money, but then the output of what they said didn't actually end up happening.

Which I find pretty disappointing.

Like, I'm just going to call out programs because I should.

I'm going to clap on that.

There's a clap right there.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think what we, when we asked like, for example, the fire department, you know, what's the progress of the equity that you've now seen or diversity, sorry, the diversity that you've seen in your department.

He didn't even have statistics and the program's name is diversity outreach and recruitment.

So it's kind of weird to me that like, that would not be something that like, is top of mind and when you're coming to present for that program.

So I think we do have part of strong partners with like the equity and inclusion GIS tool, for example.

I think those sort of things like things that will prove a program is doing what they said they're doing, I think is incredibly important because people can come and say, we're doing these things.

It's great.

Like, and believe us.

But like, unless we have that data to back that up, that we are seeing diversity, that we are seeing equity, we are seeing inclusion, and we're not going to probably, like, I think we're going blind.

And so, yeah, I would just say, I support the idea that like, getting data to, like, as you said, you know, we could have all as much data as we want.

And we still wouldn't be able to make the decisions that, or make the decision at the end of the day or make the impact.

But I do think it does support the case, right?

So when we go and bring this to leaders, and we have that data, then we're probably a lot more effective.

So hopefully, with our intentions here with this sort of work stream, hopefully we'll see some good results.

And I think we have, like, if I can summarize what we have said so far is, like, we need to have some sort of standardized part when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion.

We need to have some sort of standardized part when it comes to full-time employee cost percentage of program.

We need to have, we should approach this from, like, metrics have a cost, so let's take the data that already exists and try to slot that in.

And lastly, getting this sort of alignment on what, how programs are laddering up and having outputs that align with what Measure U sort of stands for.

Making sure that that's well upheld. And I think with this, we will continue to sort of, like, shape it the way we all hope to see it.

Cool. This item wasn't necessarily, like, again, a vote or anything. It was just sort of a receiving comment.

So I thank you for commenting, everyone. Assuming there's no more comments. Is there any public speakers on this agenda?

No public speakers on this agenda.

In that case, we can move to the ad hoc committee updates.

Before we jump into these updates, I just wanted to highlight that these next three agenda items are kind of intended to be ways for the ad hoc committees to kind of have a one-way update on here's what we did.

We want to kind of avoid, like, a two-way discussion where it becomes discussing a topic because at that point we want it agendized for the public to know that this topic is going to be discussed in depth.

And so having said all that, once you get to commissioner comments, ideas, and questions, if you do have, like, a specific topic or project or priority you want on the agenda, that would be the time to add it to the agenda log.

So we can do that and then I can work with Chair Georgi off to get it scheduled for a meeting.

So just wanted to throw that out there and feel free to proceed.

Cool. Also, if there's at some point when the ad hoc meets, you guys think of something, you can send it to me or Ash and he can add it at that time.

It doesn't have to be during this meeting, but it could be.

So I guess budget ad hoc, is there anything to report for people who are on that?

I'm not on that, so I'm happy to open the floor to anyone who has anything.

Actually, I do have something to add, if no one else does, which is, of course, we shared sort of our conclusions with the Budget and Audit Subcommittee.

Subcommittee, and so, I guess committee, I don't know, subcommittee, committee, yeah.

Committee. Committee, okay.

And I think they were well received.

I think they were at least, Member Sala and actually Member Fry Lucas was also there.

So thank you for being there in support.

I didn't actually intend to be there, but there were some last minute, like, changes of who was going to give a presentation, so I had to step in real quick.

So I apologize, because I only had about an hour to prepare for that, because I found out that morning that I was going to be the one.

Talking.

And so it wasn't my best work, but I did the best with what I could.

I think that was well taken, because two of the things that we've already actually had met.

So the youth was backfilled, the 1.4 million, I think is what it was.

And then additionally, the DEI programs will continue.

On top of that, the other, I'm trying to remember off of memory here, the other three points were metrics and goals.

And obviously we have sort of ongoing effort with city staff about this now, with like Pete Coletto and team.

And so there was no really comment on that, because it's moving forward.

The homelessness was the other one, and like, we were trying to say, we support the, yeah, like basically the continued funding of our homelessness population.

And there, I made a comment there that was like, in the past year, there was an effort to find like 14 safe grounds and like one was found.

And I feel like that was sort of a travesty, honestly.

And it wasn't effective.

So is there a way that we can like escalate that to be a bit more quick and, you know, actually get 14 spots?

Because if people are just getting shuffled down the street, like this is silly and illegal.

So there was some support for that.

But I think one city council member was saying, I would prefer to not just have safe grounds, but rather fully serviced grounds.

And of course, I would love that to have that too.

I think the question is like, is, is perfect, or like, is something better than nothing?

And so like, can we set something up at least for people to go to?

But, and I forget the last one, but maybe members saw.

Participatory budgeting.

Ah, participatory budgeting.

Yes.

Actually that one wasn't, it was received like decently well.

I felt like they were like, yeah, actually that we are, we do think that it's still important.

We do realize that the return on investment for participatory budgeting is quite high.

And so, um, we hope to bring it back soon, just not maybe this year.

Um, which I think we all kind of expected.

Cool.

Uh, I saw a member, a speaker in the queue, but they disappeared.

If there was someone.

Oh yeah, go ahead, member Sala.

Um, so I just want to thank you for being there and presenting.

And also the committee that worked on rewriting and including the other aspects that weren't in the original letter.

It was very strong.

And I thought that it was well received.

Unfortunately, and they, and the finance department acknowledged it that we were just behind.

So when we presented to budget and audit, they, they didn't say no to our recommendations.

They acknowledged that the recommendations were valid.

But it, it, it, it didn't go forward to city council because by that time, the budget was pretty much finalized.

I mean, it really was.

And, and we saw it at city council, whatever it was presented at city council, even though there were many people in the, in the, in the, that came out in community trying to convince a change in the budget basically was a done deal.

Because prior to that, this council had already indicated to the finance department, the changes they wanted to see.

And that was what he already described.

So, um, the best thing I think that came out of it and, and, um, the finance department acknowledging that.

And I think, uh, one of the council members also said, and ref that we need to start this process of dialogue much sooner and not, uh,

and not wait, we wait, when we wait for the, um, the manager to reach the budget, it's too late.

It's too late.

So I think there was acknowledgement that we need to work and put our recommendations prior to that or at the same time that the manager's budget comes out.

There are recommendations are at the same time or, or even embedded in, uh, um, manager's budget.

So, so I, I thought that that was, that was good.

That was, I feel that was a win.

And then of course the acknowledgement that participatory budgeting is so important and the process is an important, um, process.

And, and maybe there might be a way to find funding for it.

And I think there is because I saw that, um, there was funding when they originally had issues like the field network, the DEI, the 1.5.

They instructed the finance department to find how to fund those, those programs.

And, um, and they did.

They made some cuts here and adjustments here.

They could have done more, but, um, they were able to do that.

So if we're, if we work sooner with the finance department and enable to make our recommendations sooner, we might get it, we might be more effective in, in seeing our recommendations, um, presented.

So, but I, I think our, the changes they made, especially DEI and the, um, youth prevention programs.

I feel that our letter supporting that, even before I, I think they knew the direction we were going in because they listened and thought that that even validated more them encouraging the finance department to make the changes that they needed to make.

So, but thank you.

And I thought you did a really great job of, of presenting at the last one.

And at the last one he came in and he was just like, but that was, but you did good.

It was great.

I think I was still making changes when I got there actually, but yeah.

Um, cool.

Uh, when is the manager's budget submitted actually?

So we have that mark as like maybe a milestone.

It's first week of May or last week of April.

We're talking about when the city manager proposes the budget.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yep.

I think then not with it.

Yeah.

So I, it might be helpful to rewind to what we did last year and I apologize.

I think we were so focused on getting you these presentations from the departments.

We just sort of lost sight of it.

And I don't, I don't think anyone really brought it up sooner.

So it was just not on the radar.

What we did last year is, um, you had a budget subcommittee.

Was it a subcommittee?

And that, um, subcommittee took on a lot of the work to develop priorities and bring those

to the full committee for adoption.

And you did that well in advance of the city manager proposing the budget.

And so I think that's part of it too, is recognizing that, yeah, the timing of, you know, the last week of April when the city manager's budget is released and just the timing with your meetings and when they're scheduled, you know, when you can approve recommendations and then to go to present those to council.

Like there's just a number of weeks in between them that gets you all the way to June, which is when they're adopting the budget, like happened this year.

So the idea would be like, I think you all successfully did last year, which was developing priorities basically as early as January.

And then continuing to talk about those throughout the year so that when the budget is released, you're sort of ready to react to it and kind of align the priorities you've already discussed.

And then having not seen the budget, but, you know, having identified priorities to then being able to really concretely make recommendations.

So happy to help assist with that when we start developing your 2026 work plan, which we can do as early as August if you want.

I think the one thing though about that budget recommendation was one, it was on a financial year of two years before, right, a year before.

Right? And then the recommendations of departments that we like or the priorities that we had were uninformed because we didn't get the presentations yet of like what.

So it really wasn't that great of a, I would actually consider a complete failure instead of a success to be honest because it just like it didn't seem to be, it wasn't like a good, it couldn't be a good informed opinion.

It was like late, like a year late. And then, cause again, it was reviewing a year like before and then it was.

Sorry, I'm talking about the, your budget recommendations for fiscal year 2024, 2025.

Yeah.

You're talking about the annual report, which.

Yes.

Is different.

Do we have budget recommendations that were around 20, 24, 20, 23, 24, 25.

Yes.

Okay.

And you sort of, you had, you went to budget and audit twice as well.

First time was before the budget was, maybe I'll send a link to, with a timeline to kind of show how.

This was presented last year. I think I want to say like in March or April, you presented to budget and audit and said, here are our priorities.

And so that was before the budget was proposed. And then after the budget was proposed by the city manager, you then came back and said, you know, based on the proposed budget, these are specific recommendations.

So you kind of start with priorities before the budget's proposed and then after it's proposed, they're like concrete recommendations based on your priorities and the proposed budget.

Okay.

Well, regardless, we should probably be doing it earlier. And I would like to have the data in my hands before I make those recommendations.

Cause it feels like a little bit less, or like feels more material.

We do have 10 minutes. So we have to extend, but I think we're going to finish in time. That's the goal. So let's just go for it.

Moving on to, unless anyone has any more comments on that before we move on. Okay, cool.

I have one.

Oh, go ahead.

To Ash's point, cause I was coming on the commission. So we did do our report, our annual report, which we were behind.

Well, I just want to ask, are we actually caught up and in cadence now, Ash, for both? Cause I mean, I know that that was a discrepancy.

And so we kind of, if I remember correctly, help my memory, we went back and forth about it.

Yes and no. So yes, in the sense that you are caught up where your 2025 annual report will reflect calendar year 2025.

Now that portion of the annual report is limited to activities of the commission.

So you're basically saying, Hey, this is what we did in the year 2025.

So all that you're totally caught up where we have no real control is over this independent audit of,

it's an audit measure you audit that is going to be based on fiscal year 2023 or 2024.

I don't know that thing, the timing of that audit is what.

And that's coming current, right? That's coming up.

Yes.

Cause a lot of us, well, I wasn't sitting here. So like, that's why I asked that.

Cause I think that was something that we talked about last year too. So help us.

Yeah. So I'll have to get back to you on the dates.

Um, I'm going to kind of recompile everything and send it out.

And then maybe that'll be useful to talk about the timing for next year.

Um, but that audit gets attached to your annual report.

Um, and I, I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I'm just going to say it really.

The challenge with that audit is it, it always concludes that the city is in legal compliance with the back of the year.

And then we're going to have a lot of compliance with the ballot measure of measure you.

The reason why the city is always in legal compliance is because measure you as a general purpose tax can be spent for any municipal purpose.

So we're never going to have an audit that says the city was out of compliance in spending measure you.

Now, having said that clearly the intent of this commission is whether or not that spending reflects community priorities, which is part of your mandate.

Um, that is kind of, that's a, just a totally different question, but it's, I think that question is more relevant for the current year's budget than this audit from two years ago.

Because the audit from two years ago is always just going to say the city was in legal compliance, yada, yada, yada.

Um, so it's, it's, and that's kind of, I mean, it really is up to this commission, but you could focus your energy looking backwards historically on how measure you has been spent and using that audit as a, as a tool to, um, give opinions on that.

You could sort of focus on moving forward in the current budget year in real time as the city council is considering spending decisions where arguably you'd have a little more impact because it's happening in real time versus kind of a retrospective report from the past.

Yeah.

I think the takeaway here is like we'll discuss all these things in August's meeting because we skip next month for, um, yeah.

Okay.

Um, and then we'll get an email from you sort of compiling those.

We'll get to the documents, timelines, et cetera, of what it was, what we're trying to do.

We'll discuss them in August.

Cool.

Um, moving on, I think metrics ad hoc kind of gave their update in number five.

So I don't think there's anything else to report here.

Um, and then community engagement and outreach ad hoc.

Any updates from that?

Yes.

Cool.

And I know that, um, I was trying to, but there's just so much going on right now.

Um, to bring our ad hoc together.

And I, I was not successful in bringing us together, but July, we don't meet.

And so I will call all of us together.

And I was going to invite, uh, Lynette hall to, at the first meeting and see how we can work together.

And that her office can support kind of our initiatives and have an initial dialogue.

But I will be pulling all of us together in July.

Thank you.

Cool.

Thank you for those updates.

Um, I guess we'll move on to the commissioner comments, ideas, and questions.

If anyone has any thoughts.

No.

Okay.

Um, then public comments matters not on the agenda.

No speaker slips on matters on the agenda.

Okay, then we can adjourn.

I think this meeting is concluded.

Great.

Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you.