Well that's great.

Yeah.

She has to start the meeting on here.

She's uh grabbing the phone here.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

Madam Chair, we just need another minute.

Yeah, we too.

Did you reach the darkness to a set zoom?

Yes, we can.

Yes.

Madam Chair, we're ready whenever you're ready.

Yeah.

I know it's like more screen.

We don't like it.

I think we're going to be able to do that.

I gave it to them.

It's like you just kind of last.

Yeah, yeah.

We are also good evening, everyone.

Thank you for joining us.

This is the Sandy City Council meeting of Tuesday, April 14th, 2026.

We'll start our meeting with a prayer.

Do I have a volunteer for a prayer?

Should we let's how about Marcy?

Would you do it for us this week?

Thanks.

We are grateful for this city, grateful for all of those who live and serve and elevate and lift.

We are blessed to be able to grow from from the gifts that others offer to this community.

We pray that as we deliberate on various items this evening that thy spirit will be with us, that we will remember that those that we serve are looking to us to make the best decisions possible.

We ask that thy guiding hand will direct us as we serve, help us to listen and learn from our residents as well as one another and as well as the leaders across our city.

Bless our efforts tonight that we might reflect the light of Christ and all that we do.

We say this in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Thank you.

And we will now rise for the pledge.

Hi.

All right.

Thank you.

And introductions are up next.

Mr.

Fratto.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My name is Dustin Fratto.

I'm with the City Council office.

There are a couple other council staff members in the back of the room.

Justin Sorensen and Liz Terriot.

Hi, my name is Tracy.

I'm counsel for the council.

Chris Edwards with the council office.

Chris Nickel, District Three.

Marcy Houseman, District Four.

Brooke Christensen, District O.

Cindy Sharkey at large.

Alison Stroud, District Two.

Erin DeKaiser at large.

Mayor Monica Zeltanski.

Shane, City Administrator.

Lynn, City Attorney.

And Councilmember D'Souza is excused this evening.

So we have on our agenda tonight three information items, four public hearing items, two consent items, and an RDA meeting on our agenda this evening.

We have general citizen comment at 6 p.m.

And we take individual comment on voting items as they occur on the agenda.

Before we move into the agenda, I happen to notice today that this is hard.

Today is national be kind to lawyers day.

And I guess this had to happen on a Tuesday, right?

We will all I can say is we will try our best.

You guys root.

Of course, forever.

Thank you.

We appreciate the deep flattery.

All right.

Moving right into the agenda.

The first item on our agenda is the council interviewing a candidate for the architectural review committee.

And Ms.

Nickel, would you like to make an introduction on this one?

Sure.

Come on up, Chad.

So I met Chad at a dinner party with uh another neighbor.

We hadn't met before.

And so he he lives a couple streets up from me.

And we we went to a couple dinner parties, and he on the third time we met or something, he said, Well, I'm an architect.

And I said, Hey, great.

Would you like to do something with the city?

And he was super excited about the architectural review committee.

Um, he's actually at a firm, it's Babcock in design.

And they do a lot of stuff in Sandy.

He's a he's talked with a lot of stakeholders.

Large, let me stick to my script.

He has worked for Sandy's largest stakeholders in the past and understands the responsibility that comes with this role.

I think that's it.

What she said.

All right, Chad.

Well, the way this works is that if you could maybe give us just a kind of an overview of your experience and why you are interested in serving on this committee, and then Madam Terrell, I forgot to add something.

But okay, go ahead.

Um James has actually met with him and maybe have a few comments, or he gave me the thumbs up.

Okay.

Do you want to kick us off?

Yeah.

Sure.

Uh so I've been a licensed architect in Utah since 2018, 2016, excuse me.

I graduated from University of Utah 2013, 2012.

It all bears together.

Uh been at BAPPEC Design for 13 years as of last February.

Um, currently a senior associate with the firm with potential of becoming a partner at the end of this year.

Um over the course of my career, a lot of it was through internships and my time there.

But then after licensure, worked a lot on a lot of public office down the I-15 corridor, a lot of areas in Silicon Slopes.

COVID happened and some things changed, and office was not such a hot commodity for architectural uh professions anymore for good reasons.

And so I started looking into different professions.

Babcock has a deep, my firm has a deep background in public work, and so I kind of found a niche that I really like to get into.

Started working with a lot of uh police fire city councils, uh city administration to work on different types of buildings.

We've done public safety fire station, uh police stations uh currently working on a large correctional facility down in southern Utah.

Uh worked a little bit with Chief McConaughey a while back on some early concept designs for station 31.

Um yeah, just really enjoy working on community uh driven developments.

I can see that the profit motives and the insight from this side of things is a lot different than the private side.

Uh and I much appreciate it.

So it's been really rewarding and great to work with everybody that I've got to meet.

So looking forward to doing more.

All right.

Thank you.

Did you did we want to go to James?

Is you were you looking for that?

I heard yeah, that'd be great.

I appreciated the uh chance to get to know Chad.

We obviously know his company Babcock extremely well, are handling all of the architecture for SEG around the mall and have uh work the last few years with them.

Um obviously, if you can see if you have probably Chad's resume in front of you, um, I look at that and think we'd be very lucky to have him on our committee.

Um, we need architecture experience on the committee.

Um, people who have done it and who know Sandy City and know what we're striving for in Sandy City and the excellence that we're striving for.

And um, Chad has great experience with uh Babcock.

Um, and he does know that uh um this is a committee that is pretty diverse and and working with other people too on the committee.

Um it's just not one person who makes decisions, and so I think he'll work well with everyone.

And I I think we're just super excited to have an architect and willing to help us.

And I think this will be actually be the first council in Pointlet.

So it's pretty cool for us.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, council.

Questions or comments, Ms.

Houseman, go right ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um I I love, I love what you bring from all of your worlds and intersecting into this.

So thank you for your willingness.

I I really have just kind of one question because you're your experience and and resume, I'll speak for itself.

But my wondering is how do you um in this role specifically, how do you, or or even in your other work, so wherever.

Um, but what does it look like for you to help municipal government strike that balance of creativity, um, design, all of those things that that move us forward and keep us where we would like to be as we are considering design and cost, protecting taxpayers, you know, all of that.

It's I'm sure that is complicated answer, but I'd love to hear your approach.

Uh, there's a lot of facets in my profession, and I always think that there's like the sustainable side, the design side, the project management side, the client side, the business development side, and so much of getting interaction with the public uh through council, through commissioners, et cetera, has shown me that there is such a wide diverseness on your side as well.

And so it's really important to understand the the parameters of where you guys are coming at because aesthetics are great and one thing, but without function, it's nothing.

Without meeting a budget, it's nothing.

Um, we have to be really careful and tread carefully with when we're designing for public dollars, essentially.

Yes.

And so we try to be cognizant of that and be really respectful, knowing that we're trying to check a lot of boxes.

As it comes to design realistically, in my mind, this and with every design's problem, it's it's just a series of problem solving.

And so the more information we can get out, and there's some things that can bend, and there's some things that are really strict, but knowing what the criteria is and how far we can push, how far we can make concessions, where we could put categories into wants versus needs is a huge deal.

And that's kind of how I treat my clients as well.

So it's very transparent and that's the easiest way to go about it in my mind.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Well, yeah.

Ms.

Stroud.

Um, so the architectural review committee, you know, they're often looking at plans that other companies have are bringing in, um, you know, down here kind of in our Cairns area, uh, and and possibly, I guess, some, you know, from your company.

How will you handle that if it doesn't uh doesn't meet our Cairns design standards and if it is your company that's bringing bringing it forward at design forward?

So, probably two questions there.

If it was Babcock's projects, I might recuse myself from those specifically.

If if need be, we can work with committee and determine what's the best path is.

I'm happy to do that.

Uh I have the best opinion when it's not my work that I'm criticizing.

So that's really easy.

Um, when I was talking to James earlier in our our pre-interview, I think you have to similar to like the code book.

Uh you'll hear everyone say the phrase the way I interpret the code blank.

And there's a lot of interpretation that goes with the code.

And for better or worse, there's probably a lot of interpretation that comes with the cairns district and the different guidelines that go along with it.

So I think you have to have a little bit of levelness of logic and reasonability.

But there's that same thing.

There's the wants, the needs, the must-haves, the can't, the can't change, the can change.

So ultimately trying to come with a level head to understand that there's some things that we probably are going to get pushed up against that we can have conversations with and push back.

There's some things that are an absolute no, but I think it's a variety of what makes the most sense from a lot of reasons, aesthetically, budgetary, um, function, et cetera.

That's that was just I was wondering on those two questions.

Thank you.

I'm getting nervous for the head counseling.

I'm ready to go.

Okay.

So I think this is a very, very important committee.

Um, this isn't a decision-making committee, it's a recommending committee, but it's a recommending committee for development of our downtown Cairns district.

It's the area of the city that has yet to be developed to our vision to our goals.

And um, I think we have one chance to get this right.

And so I think that this committee is very, very, very important.

I've served on the committee before.

I've seen architects struggle to tell other architects what they should do.

Um I have seen architects soften to an argument of cost.

So we've set our Cairns design standards, right?

And we we've laid out a game plan of what we want.

And um I have seen plans come across that I just personally I didn't think, or as I observed to the committee that the committee didn't think was compliant with the design standards with the goals with the vision.

Um, but maybe soften, as I said, to an argument of cost.

If I do that, it'll cost too much, or the developer won't, or maybe the architect is willing to make some changes, but the builder isn't because it's just there's a cost element, right?

We we do all understand too.

It this is this is difficult.

It's difficult to get to.

I see you use the word balance again and again.

And I every time you used it, I circled it because I do think it's an important balance.

We want our downtown district to be distinctive.

We want it to be sandy, we want it to be something different than downtown Salt Lake City or downtown South Jordan or downtown Draper.

We I want someone driving up the I-15 to look over to their right and say, we're in Sandy now.

I want it to be something different and distinctive.

And I value architects being on this committee.

I think that interpretation of what we want.

I I have seen on the fly different agreements being made about, well, this doesn't make sense.

How about if we do it this way?

I really, really think it's a very important um committee.

And so you would be in a position of making a decision about whether other architects have met the conditions, the definitions that have been spelled out in the Cairns design standards.

Do you feel comfortable with that?

That's that's my entire background.

That's all through school.

There's the shortest answer is there's rarely, probably never one solution to a problem.

And so if there's a if there's an outline that we feel collectively is not being met, let's talk about it and talk about reasons why.

I'd like to hear why they think they don't want to do what our recommendation is.

And if there is, okay, there's probably another solution.

Something that can meet everyone's needs and demands, and let that be Sandy, right?

So we we we critique in the office, we critique internally.

Uh, we could keep with our consultants.

Like it's rarely this is the decision that starts at the beginning and gets through the end.

It's usually a collaborative process where we determine what best idea wins.

And it's like I said, it's rarely a lot of them could work, but there's ultimately going to be one that works for most people.

And that could hit on again budget design, aesthetics, et cetera, et cetera.

I love the way architects talk.

It's kind of like poets.

It's like poetry.

Yeah.

Um that's kind of what I would like to see applied.

It is it's not completely raw ground here in the cairns, but there's a lot of it left.

And I think there's still a very obvious opportunity for place making.

And so it's not just approving one building.

It's considering how the entire building works with everything else and gets us to this vision, this goal of the downtown district.

So anyway, I really like the experience that you bring.

I think it's important experience to add to the architectural review committee.

Um I think, you know, if you haven't already read the Cairns Design Standards, I'm sure that you will because that's how you'll be measuring these uh projects that come your way, but some of them are the biggest projects we'll ever see in Sandy, right?

Very, very important.

And so that's why I think it's important.

And I I like your experience.

It's encouraging to me.

I think we need this kind of experience on this committee.

And uh I'll look forward to supporting your appointment to this committee.

Thank you.

If I may, yeah, on one note.

I think that Chad will bring a new breath of information.

He would he's the youngest member on the committee, as far as I know.

And uh, so I think and he'll get along great with the other architects.

I have no doubt about that.

I was telling a couple, and he actually knows a couple of them.

So anyway, looking forward to it.

You want to um tell them the process, or do you want me to?

You can.

Okay.

So this is just the interview.

Next week we'll actually vote on it.

It'll probably be on a consent calendar, and then you're officially on, and James will um be the one that sends out meeting reminders and that type of thing.

Yeah.

So super easy.

I think you did great.

And you're awesome.

Yep.

Well, she gave me some.

Yeah.

Any things?

Nope.

All right.

Thank you, everybody so much.

Appreciate the time.

Thank you.

Appreciate you.

Okay.

All right.

Next item on our agenda is the Central Wasatch Commission providing um the council their annual review.

And that is Lindsay Nielsen.

And I see you online tonight, Lindsay.

Thank you for joining us.

Good evening, council.

Thank you so much for making the time on tonight's agenda and for your attention.

Um, since I am online tonight, I think I can just really easily share the slides instead of Dustin and team driving the slides.

So if you don't mind, I will set that up right now.

Okay.

Okay.

So, yes, as is stated on um your council meeting agenda.

This is our annual presentation to you, Sandy City Council, uh, a member jurisdiction of the Central West Hatch, actually a founding uh jurisdictional member of the Central West Commission.

So we are here, or I'm here tonight um to have some FaceTime to answer any questions and to tell you about all the things we've done in the past year since the last time I came to talk to you and um everyone on the diets there tonight.

So um, in case anyone needs a refresher about what the Central Wasatch Commission is, the CWC grew out of the mountain accord process.

That Mountain Aguard Charter was signed in 2015, and uh the CWC was created and snaffed staffed up in 2018.

Um since then, the CWC has for uh has served as the main convener of all of the various uh and diverse stakeholders along the Wasatch front and the Wasatch back, with the express goal of focusing on the long-term protection of the watershed, the land, and the um the ecosystems that we see in in the Central Wasatch Mountain range.

In addition to the protection of the environmental aspects of these mountains, the CWC is focused on um balancing the other the other three predominant systems that we see working in the central Lasatch Mountains, and that is of course transportation, so how people are getting to the mountains and then getting around the mountains once they get there to recreate.

Um, of course, recreation.

So I don't have to tell you folks on the dais that we have world-renowned recreational opportunities here, just in our backyards.

And then the economy.

When we say the economy of the central Wasatch, we largely mean the four world-renowned ski resorts that we find in Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons.

And of course, also included in the economy system of these mountains are the smaller businesses, the restaurants, the ski shops, etc.

Our member jurisdictions are here, as you can see.

We have nine voting members.

And we have three ex officio members, one of which is new since the last time I saw you.

So we added the new, the newest uh transit service or transit um yeah, transit service, High Valley Transit.

High Valley Transit serves Park City and Summit County.

And then we added two special advisors, Solitude Mountain Resort and Saver Canyons representing the economy system of the Wasatch and the environment and recreation systems of the Wasatch, respectively.

Okay.

Member jurisdiction benefits.

So a reminder about what you as Sandy and as representatives of your uh of your constituencies receive as Sandy City is a member of a member jurisdiction of the CWC.

We, of course, approach um land and watershed protection through a consensus approach.

Um the nine member jurisdictions uh that have votes that you just saw work together at each CWC meeting and in between at committee meetings.

We have consensus-based transportation approaches, which is really important for um for a region like we have here in the central Wasatch.

Um, short-term improvements to the mountains, the Central Wasatch Dashboard that has had a recent um revitalization and updates made to the uh landing page of the dashboard, which I I'm happy to show you.

Um it's much more dynamic and uh user-friendly now, and regional stakeholder involvement.

So, what are the specific benefits to Sandy City?

Um, ample collaborations with your jurisdictional neighbors uh that you would not have without the existence and participation with the CWC, direct access to collective group advocacy efforts for environmental protection and conservation.

So that is those um uh collective group advocacy efforts are achieved through our work toward the uh passage and implementation of our cornerstone project, which is of course the Central Wasatch National Conservation and Recreation Area Act.

That was um an outgrowth of the mountain accord charter.

We can talk about it more in a in a sub subsequent slide.

And then, of course, innovative platform for complex transportation discussions and solutions.

So since the CWC has been in existence, you know that we have um produced uh numerous transportation studies from the Big Cottonwood Canyon Mobility Action Plan.

We just updated the Mill Creek Canyon uh shuttle feasibility plan.

Uh we submit public comments as a collective uh every time uh large-scale uh transportation and transit agencies open up a public comment period, and then of course we have our um we have our uh short uh our ski bus party access program, which Sandy City directly benefits from uh in partnership with the CWC.

Okay, we also um have a 35-member stakeholders council, uh uh which is composed of the follower the stakeholder uh organizations that you see here.

As I mentioned, the CWC is really the main and only convener for all of the various interests in these mountains.

It's a really unique endeavor that we're doing that's not been replicated many places outside of the CWC or across the nation.

And then also relatively new, although I've probably already spoken to you about this.

I'm just so I'm so impressed by our youth council.

Um, relatively new to the CWC is a youth council.

Uh, and they yeah, they're just a really impressive group of young people who are um interested and concerned about uh the happenings in the central Wasatch Mountains.

So if you have any young constituents that you think might be good additions to the youth council, please send them our way.

This is a really fun way for them for young people to get involved to grow their skill set to network themselves to have FaceTime uh with uh local policymakers like yourselves.

Our mountain transportation work that I touched on briefly before.

Of course, we had our mountain transportation system project that council member member Houseman was uh participant in uh back in 2020 and 2021, the BCC map that you see here, the Mill Creek Canyon Feasibility Study, and then various um uh um public comments.

So our ski bus uh priority access program um that you see here, it's um been a wild success since we started it in partnership and conjunction with Sandy City PD, UDOT UTA and Cottonwood Heights back in 2020.

And since then it's become um like a really a relied upon partnership amongst all of the all of the partners that I just mentioned.

Yeah, and it's relied upon for um uh many Sandy City residents, I should say as well.

Okay, so the Central Wasatch Dashboard, um, it is uh the dashboard I've spoken about a lot.

You'll remember um uh that it uh amasses all of the environmental data um in the central Wasatch into one unified place.

Before the existence of the dashboard, uh folks had to know exactly what they wanted to learn about, and they had to know exactly where to find it.

And now with the dashboard that I'm sharing my screen to show you, this is now the landing page.

You can look at an interactive map, you can look at traffic counters in the Wasatch.

Let's see where these are, wildlife crossings here, you have so traffic counters here, wildlife there, um, you have streams, the boundaries, so the boundaries for the CWN CRA can be illuminated on this map, and then you you can uh tap on whatever you're interested in looking at, and then uh click on the hyperlinks on this map to get into the data sets.

All right, getting back to the slides.

And then relatively new is our central Central Wasatch Symposium.

This past January was our second symposium.

Um the symposium consistently draws over 200 people.

The first year we had Terry Tempest Williams as our keynote speaker.

Uh, she brought people to tears with her lyrical um uh prose that she read to us for her keynote, and then this year, Darren Perry, a Shoshone elder, uh, also broke brought people to tears, which is not the intention with our keynotes.

It just happens to be what ends up happening.

Um, and then what followed those two wonderful keynote addresses were two days of learning, networking, meeting each other, um, meeting folks who have similar interests, desire like love for these mountains, desires for the long-term protection of the mountains, and then learning from the experts, the people who study and make their lives work out of learning and gathering data about what's what's in our backyard here.

And then what we have here again is our short-term projects grant program.

This is a really special grant program that has a lot of direct impact for Sandy City.

Um, we through this grant program over the years, the CWC has contributed funding for the maintenance of trailhead bathrooms into in support of the US Forest Service, support of the ongoing maintenance of the Lone Peak Wilderness Wag Bag kiosk, which is just down the road from where you folks are.

Um that's uh that's how you get to the Lone Peak Trail, Jake through the Jacobs Ladder Trailhead, uh maintenance of the aging fixed rock anchor hardware, which is a continual um contribution.

We contribute um to the remediation of graffiti tags from rock faces, from uh forest for service facilities, etc.

to make sure our lands and water are as pristine as possible.

Uh, and then we we do also support um things like shuttle programs and outdoor stewardship programs and outdoor education for children.

And then last but not least, the cornerstone project, the core of the work at the CWC, the reason that the CWC exists arguably, is the C the Central Wasatch National Conservation and Recreation Area Act.

This, the CWN CRA, since it was last drafted at the end of 2020, has been on hiatus to allow uh transportation studies and work to be completed.

We, at the direction of the CWC's board, are picking work back up on the CWN CRA this year.

We are re-engaging with important stakeholders like our ski resorts, um, like uh Salt Lake City and Sandy City Public Utilities to talk about um whether or not folks want to want to re-engage purely if they have interest in working to modernize this bill to bring it up to uh a 2026 or 2027 um draft bill.

And overwhelmingly, the answer has been yes.

Um the the issues that this legislation sought to address when it was first drafted during the mountain accord process have not gone away.

Those those issues um felt by everyone in these canyons have not, like I said, not gone away in fact they've gotten worse.

They've been exacerbated by time and inaction.

So yeah, there's a need, uh, there's a need, there's desire to re-engage, which has not always been the case.

Uh, and so it's a really important time for all of the stakeholders to be at the table when we're picking up steam back on this legislation that would do um that would just provide immense value for the watershed protection, for Sandy City's watershed stake, for Salt Lake City's watershed stake, for the protection of the land and for the balancing of the economic and the recreation interests.

Also new, um, we've added a new communications director.

He's not here tonight, but his name is Will McKay.

He's listed, he's third on this list.

Um with that, I will say thank you so much again for your time and attention.

And if there are any questions right now, I'd be happy to entertain them.

Um yeah.

Council, does anyone have any questions for Lindsay from CWC?

All right, Miss Nicole, go ahead.

Hi, Lindsay.

It's Chris.

Hi.

What how do you directly support Save Our Canyons in their stewardship?

Oh, yes.

So um let me get the slides back up.

That was through a grants award award to Save Our Canyons for that stewardship program directly.

So what how that um how that worked, council member Nickel, um, is Save Our Canyons applied for a short-term project grant.

Um, and they were awarded.

Um, and the the way the grant funding is awarded is our short-term projects grant committee, which is staffed by a number of commissioners, usually three commissioners, uh, deliberates, they consider all of the all of the um grant finalists applications in a in generally a three-hour meeting once a year.

They make those funding allocation decisions, and um then they uh get to make the good calls, the happy calls to people that they have been awarded some funding.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So it was a grant from you.

Is that that's how you supported a lot?

That's right.

Yeah, that's right.

Who else have you given grants to?

Yeah, so many people.

I love this question.

Let me stop sharing and let me reshare.

We can get to the CWC's website and we can read it off very quickly there.

And in the meantime, I'd like to say, Councilmember Nickel, I grew up in your district, District 3 in Zandy.

Yeah.

Um, okay, let me let's see here.

Okay.

Okay, so this is the CWC's website, CWC.utah.gov.

Getting to the projects page, you can go to projects, short-term projects, you can just click on this, and that is how you navigate to this page that you see here.

Um we have the eligibility requirements, how to apply.

Um, and you can, if you're interested, you can look at all of the awarded projects dating back from the start of the start of the grant.

So we've consistently awarded, uh, we've consistently the CWC has contributed some funding to the maintenance of the bathrooms.

We've worked on, we've worked with um Trails Utah.

We've worked with Save Our Canyons, the Climber Salt Lake Uh City Climbers Alliance.

We've worked with the graffiti busters who does all that really important graffiti remediation work here.

Um like Friends of Alta, I know Utah Open Lands has been awarded in the past.

Um yeah, the Big Cottonwood Canyon uh community association has uh been awarded some funding in the past.

Um many, many, many, many organizations over the years.

I think since the the inception of this grant, we've been able to um allocate like 300 ish thousand dollars to the community for um projects directly on the ground, which has been really wonderful.

Um yeah, Cottonwood Canyons Foundation eats environmental mental education programs in the Wasatch back.

Um so how much approximately are the grants for?

Yeah, good question.

They have a cap of uh a request cap of 20,000.

Um it's a short-term project, which means we to be eligible, the project has to be completed within one calendar year, 12 months.

And it's a short, it's a small grant as well.

So the cap, like I said, 20,000, and it varies um from 5,000.

I've seen 2,000 before, um, to all the way up to 20,000 before.

Okay, thank you, Lindsay.

You're welcome.

Thanks for the question.

Any other questions?

Yeah, thank you.

Any more?

No.

I'm seeing none, Lindsay.

Thank you for joining us tonight.

I really appreciate your presentation.

I appreciate the time and we we genuinely appreciate Sandy's um continued participation on the on the commission.

Um, I think honestly, the everyone in Utah is better for it.

So thank you so much, council.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

All right, item number three on our agenda is a discussion about development agreements, by right development approvals, housing development incentives.

That comes from Lynn Pace.

Madam Chair, do you want me to meet here?

I think we ought to make you go up here.

Yeah, it's because it's it's love your attorney day, right?

Wayne, you're you're a tall guy.

If you would like me to raise that up, let me know.

We'll make it work.

Can you hear me all right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, thank you.

Good to be with you.

Um I am not entirely sure why I'm the presenter for this topic, but we will uh I think we can have a good discussion that will at least give us some direction as the next steps.

Uh this is an outgrowth from our housing discussions last fall.

And for those of you that were not on the council, at least I know you were aware of it.

Um and uh my role in all of that was mostly to facilitate the discussion.

I think that's I think that's sort of the role I will play tonight as well.

Um in the housing report, the housing report that was adopted, one of the top priorities was um addressing lack of what was it?

It was um uh lack of tools to enforce owner occupancy.

And uh, and so our purpose tonight is to focus essentially on that one piece or that one priority, recognizing that we could have a similar discussion about other priorities, whether it's starter homes or affordable housing or senior housing.

So this list of questions that I put into the memo um was intended to address uh or to generate discussion about how to how we could use those tools to accomplish in this case owner occupancy objectives.

So just by way of background, the our general land use tools, what we think of as planning and zoning and uh our development code generally deals with what can be developed on the property, what it looks like, how it functions, the height of the building, setbacks, things like that, but it doesn't give us the tools we need to determine who lives in the property and whether that is a renter or an owner or those types of things.

So if those are things we care about, then we have to use we have to use different tools.

Um and one of the things that we discussed in our housing plan was the significant differences between rented housing and owned housing.

One creates uh more equity for the the occupant and the owner.

Uh it also creates more neighborhood stability, et cetera, et cetera.

But our uh my point is our existing tools don't allow us to say we're zoning this property for single family homes that have to be owner occupied.

It's just single family homes.

So if you want to say those need to be owner-occupied, and we had a great discussion about that a few weeks ago.

Remind me, council member, what was the name of that project we were doing?

It was Fortner.

Fortner, yeah, the types of ownership.

And we anyway, we had a discussion about how we would do that.

And the ordinance was conditioned on those, the property being subdivided, sold with a development agreement that created those obligations.

Well, in effect, we did that by contract, not by regulation.

Um, and so the question is one of the questions is how that contracting tool is one of the options we have to accomplish our objectives.

So if you haven't already looked at the memo, please do.

Um, because I have six questions there.

Now, I will just say in advance, I don't really expect or want six council members giving us feedback on six different questions, or we'll be here a long time.

So we'll really sort of go through the questions, and then there's categories to think about.

And while I would welcome discussion and feedback, and I know James and his team would and others, um, tonight is a night to think about it and to give some general direction.

This is not a decision-making night.

This is a discussion night, if that makes sense.

Um, so the first question is what are what are your top priorities with respect to owner-occupied housing?

What is it we are trying to accomplish?

Is it neighborhood stability?

Is it uh getting equity for the homeowner?

Is it first-time home buyers?

What's what's what target are we shooting at?

Because knowing what our objectives are will help us make it easier for us to craft the tools we need to try to accomplish the objective.

So, question number one is it's just sort of an overarching question.

What are our goals relative to owner-occupied housing?

Okay.

Item number two, how important is it to you that, and I will just say most of these questions apply to what will be newly created housing, because we can't go back and impose new requirements on housing that already exists.

So this is looking forward prospective.

How important is it to you that we create for sale housing product rather than just rental?

Or what exists today is leaving it up to the developer or the property owner, you've you've got X number of units approved, either in an apartment in a single building or in separate detached buildings, you decide if you want to rent it, rent it or sell it.

So if that's the question number one is how important is it to create for sale housing?

Uh, question number three, how important is it that to maintain owner occupancy after that unit is subdivided and sold?

And that was again a discussion we had the other night.

And we said, well, we're for purposes of that prior case, it's enough if we just get it subdivided, and then we'll let the individual owners decide what they want to do after that.

If that's all we care about, we have tools that can accomplish that.

If you if you want not just to create uh for sale product, but then to make sure that we maintain owner occupancy going forward, then we need a different set of tools.

Question number four.

If you care about maintaining owner occupancy of those units, how long do we care about?

Is this a five-year restrictive covenant?

Is it a 10-year or is it perpetual?

Um, just by way of example, there are a lot of projects that have these kinds of restrictions on ownership or occupancy.

Think of rent control departments in New York City.

And those are perpetual.

And you can live there as long as you meet those income requirements.

As soon as you make too much money, they ask you to move out so someone else who needs who is eligible can move in.

That's a perpetual restriction on the unit, right?

And it requires a certain amount of monitoring.

There are other requirements that have owner occupancy or affordability limitations for a restrictive, they record a restrictive covenant against the deed restrict restriction against the property that expires in five years or 10 years.

So a window of time, but not forever.

Those are questions to think about, right?

Um so those first four questions really sort of focus on what our goals are.

What are we trying to accomplish?

And then five and six are questions about what incentives we're willing to offer to in exchange for these restrictions.

Because anytime you say to a developer or property owner, you can't do whatever you want with this property, we're limiting your use.

We're requiring you to sell this or require you to sell it only to a first-time home buyer, only to someone who has limited income, you have narrowed the range of marketability for that product.

And so typically they'll say, I don't want to do that, unless we create some incentive, right?

Well, we'll give you more units, we'll give you a financial some some financial assistance.

Uh that's where Casey comes in, right?

Or some some package.

So we help them to create the product that we want them to create.

What incentives are we willing to consider?

If you look at our plan, which I know you haven't recently, but I did.

Um it says here in the plan, it said talks about incentives being possible incentives, um, density bonuses.

So instead of getting X units, you get X plus some ratio.

City assistance, land write downs, city sourced funding, fee waivers, impact fee reductions.

So it's basically city subsidy of the project.

Um, third one, accelerated approval process.

You reduce reduce soft costs by moving projects more quickly through the permitting inspection.

You basically say you move to the front of the line with your project.

Okay.

Uh, there are other incentives you could also think of uh in some places they have given additional height or reduced parking requirements uh requirements or reduce setbacks or other dimensional aspects that create more value for the developer.

All of those are just things to think about, right?

Um, and then the last question I had here, and again, this isn't an exhaustive list of questions, it's just a place to start the conversation.

And that is are you willing or or if if we think through this enough, are we comfortable enough with the incentives we offer that we would say this is a package of incentives we're willing to offer anyone who comes, so much so that we'll put in our code.

Now we typically don't do that because as I was talking to council member Sharker earlier, you trust yourselves more than others.

And so you say, no, no, no, no, we'll deal with you on a one by one basis.

So you, property owner or developer, come negotiate with us, we'll negotiate something we agree to, and then the next project we negotiate and we negotiate, we negotiate.

You can do that, but that's far less attractive to developers and property owners because it is let's make a deal on every property, and they never know where they're going to end up.

If you could come up in theory, if you said, for example, we really like owner-occupied units.

So if you'll build condominiums instead of apartments, we'll give you 150% of the density.

Instead of instead of 10 units, you get 15.

Something like that, and you put it in the code.

Now a developer knows what they can do in advance.

They don't have to come and play, let's make a deal with the council.

It's in the code already.

And they can go directly to staff and say, I'd like to take that deal.

So it it creates a greater incentive just by version of by virtue of being predictable.

Does that make sense?

So with that much introduction.

Um, I'm gonna turn it back to you and say, what do you want to talk about?

Or what direction would you like to give us?

And again, this is just starting the conversation.

We're we're far from the decision part of that conversation.

Ms.

Houseman, go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, first of all, thank you.

Like we have been asking to have this conversation.

It's uh it keeps coming up through all of our housing workshops.

And um, and so I really appreciate the opportunity to kind of uh weigh in.

I like the guiding questions.

I've given given them some thoughts, but I think just for the sake of time, maybe I'll just sort of give my high level and then go from there.

Um I I think for me, and I can only speak for me, homeownership is the priority.

And I'm talking lasting home ownership, deed restriction, you know, 10 years.

Um, okay.

He's the same, and that's all, Marcy.

Be quiet.

I thought maybe I said something.

Your three minutes is up, I'm sorry.

Um, I recognize there's give and take to this.

So I'm not I am not naive to the fact that in order to get home, you know, home ownership, which and again, I'm just speaking for myself, that is for me our number one priority.

My number one priority, I should say.

I shouldn't speak for our because to address the housing affordability challenge.

We need to be thinking about making it possible to be a homeowner in Sandy.

And right now, it is ridiculously difficult.

Um, so I understand what you're saying is, hey, council, if if this is a priority and you want home ownership, and as developers come and there's an opportunity to redevelop something, do something creative, you know, repurpose whatever, um, what are your priorities?

And so I guess I wanted to just lead out with that.

It it is home ownership, it is um deed restriction, so that that continues the property even after a sale.

I want um, I want any because we are so limited that when new builds happen, I want it to be so that people can be either first-time homeowners, down homeowners that downsize into something smaller that works for them, etc.

I want to fill in the missing middle.

I don't want to do it with rentals, I want to do it with homeownership.

I want to make home ownership a reality for more and more people who want to live in Sandy.

Now, because that is the priority, I also feel the need to share what I think are um the the give and take, like what you bring up such an important point around incentives.

In order for that to be appealing to developers, that they have to know that we understand what they're trying to do too.

And so I I want to make sure that our our partner developers, because that's what I see.

I the only way we solve this challenge is if we see developers as partners in this work.

I just want to make sure we're we're really clear on what our priorities are.

So I would be open, and I want to I do want to check the memo here because I made some notes on um the different incentives that that I think are are are worth um considering.

And we've talked about some of these before.

I recognize that some might be uncomfortable with you know incentives.

I I I want to make sure that everything I'm saying today is not interpreted as I'm an anti-developer or an anti-density.

I am pro-community, pro-home ownership.

And if we just if we don't take a stand and allow things to run coarse, what ends up happening is a whole lot of rental.

My husband and I were just talking uh this morning, looking around our neighborhood at the number of single-family homes and just a regular residential community surrounding us that are now rentals.

Um, I get it.

People are people are making investments, you know, and so they see an opportunity, they buy and they convert it to a rental.

Um, I understand that.

I'm not anti-investment either, but if we are looking to fill in the missing middle, I want to put some some constraints in place that say, bring us to bring us a project where you are prioritizing homeownership, and here's some things that that we're willing to take a look at.

So from your list, I think these are appropriate incentives.

So I I do like, and I know others may not like this.

I like your recommendation, and maybe it wasn't a recommendation, maybe you're just giving it as an example, but uh rather than this piece by piece by piece, this one-off, I do like the idea and would would very much welcome recommendations around um codifying something that allows developers to know if I put this package, whatever we ultimately land on, but if I put this package together, it's it's in code that Sandy will let me do this.

Like I want to build fast.

I want to remove as many barriers as possible.

So I am curious about that, what what that would look like so that it isn't every single thing coming to the planning commission and following our whole process.

What could what could a sort of package look like that we can all agree on and gets gets put in code?

Um obviously I think I think low-hanging fruit is um expedited permitting a plan review.

So if if a developer part developer partner is coming to us and saying, I am committed to owner occupancy, I'm committed to your 10 months or sorry, 10-year requirement, you know, deed restriction, um here's my project, they could expect us to move that quickly.

Um I'm interested in reducing reducing fees so long as they are honoring that kind of restriction uh duration that we've been talking about.

Um I like what you just said.

It was that something I had made a note of what does it look like for us to to say um we're not interested in in rentals, but if you go to homeowner, I mean homeownership deed restrictions, um, I would be interested if it's in the right of of course, if it's in the place that we've all agreed that we're open to slightly increased density, I would be open to a nudge even further that guarantees home ownership.

Um I would be interested if it's in the right of course, if it's in the place that we've all agreed that we're open to slightly increased density, I would be open to a nudge even further that guarantees home ownership.

So, like the example you just gave was instead of this is the density, we would increase it by this percentage because you have committed to um 10, 15 years of of deed restricted home ownership.

Um I think I think that's I mean, I've got a lot that I've been thinking about.

Um I I guess I'll just sum it up this way.

I'm I'm looking for partners in this work.

I'm looking for people who will see an opportunity to to be part of the solution in a way that works for them, but also works for us.

And they come to us knowing what we have indicated, are this is this is what we're looking we're looking for partners who will build um who will think about the missing middle and will sign on the dotted line that this will be owner occupied.

I'll stop now.

May I respond to that?

Okay.

Thank you.

That's very helpful.

And others want to hear from you as well.

Let me ask a follow a couple of follow-up questions that I think may be helpful to others.

Um we talk about getting a commitment, what we can't do by regulation today, we can do by agreement.

So a mutual agreement.

Um, but that's only if the city is giving something beyond the base zoning that exists today.

So if I have the right to build a single family home and I can rent that home or sell it, uh, and you come to me and say, I want you to commit that it you only own it or sell it, uh, I would say, why should I sign that commitment?

Right?

I've already got the right to do that.

So the only way I'm you're we're going to get that commitment is we get is if we give them something more than what's on the table already.

Okay.

So and what does that look like?

Take the Cairns area or a higher density area, you might give them more units in the in the building, more apartments, more condos, whatever it might be.

In a in the vast majority of the the area in our city is low density or very low density.

What that means is you're giving them uh smaller building lots so they can get more of the lots, even if they're single family detached, you're giving them more of them in exchange for a commitment.

Is that what you had in mind?

Great clarifying question.

Um because I value the community impact of homeownership, and I'm again, I am not, I don't want this to be interpreted as I speak, I I think renters don't take care of prior property.

I I mean, before we could afford a house, we had to rent as you know, new young marries.

I totally there's a place for rental.

I'm not trying to eliminate rental, but we have a lot of rental stock, and I think that that is that is available.

I am trying to make home ownership possible.

And there are people who are paying rent that if we had the right housing stock, the amount they're paying in rental costs could get them in a home.

They could be homeowners, they could have a mortgage, they could start building equity.

We just have to get the right housing stock.

We have to get the right build partners.

So I'm not anti-rentals, but I am trying to get people to be homeowners and start building equity.

Right.

So anyway, so yes.

Thank you.

What I'm what I want to make sure you're aware of though is that what this means is if you have a couple of homes on existing lots and everything in the neighborhood is built out of half acre.

I'm just using that as an example.

In order to get guaranteed homeownership, you have to give that homeowner who has a half acre, who ordinarily would be able to build or rebuild one home, we have to give them more than that.

And so by definition, it's going to be something slightly more than what the code allows today, and that may create some neighborhood friction, saying this is all this half acre neighborhood.

No, no, no, no, no.

Right.

And you have to say, but we're trying to promote it.

And you see, you see, that's why you guys get paid the big bucks, because you get to make those our decisions.

But you have to be willing to give something in exchange, or you we won't get a contract and we won't get the committee.

So and I completely I'm glad you're clarifying because it gives me a chance to say it again.

Um, I understand that.

And I know I might be one the only one.

And that's but that's what you're asking for.

Is you want to know, and I'm just being very, very direct.

Okay, you also asked about um homeownership, but also lasting homeownership.

You have a sense duration.

Minimum 10 years.

Okay, so two.

I'm taught uh I want I want duration.

And let me go back to that previous one really quickly.

I'm not talking about throwing high rises on a if if we have a half acre lot and we allow that person to go from a half acre lot to two quarter acre lots and build single family homes on two acres.

That's what I'm talking about.

Not throwing, not throwing you know, high-rise condos up in the middle of the neighborhood.

But I do believe that there is there's community value in having home ownership in the community, even if it means my neighbor that only had one house.

Now there's now two houses on quarter acre lots, but those I know are not going to be converted to rentals or short-term rentals or so I know it's a give and take.

And all I can do is answer where I've landed on all of this.

And this is just a discussion.

Yeah, but by definition, we just need to know.

Yep.

If you're going to increase the amount of housing, that's going to in some place, somewhere change the status quo in the neighborhood.

And that may create a little bit of friction.

So okay.

Other thank you.

Other comments?

Other feedback?

Ms.

Nickel.

Thank you.

So I kind of feel like we're talking up here when we're ready to talk down here a little bit.

I'm ready for the feedback.

Okay.

So the last uh um rezone we did was a great example of everybody, you know, everyone was saying just do a deed restriction.

There's a lot more that goes into a deed restriction than anybody here could imagine.

Who brings the deed restriction?

How that works is really important, and how much we interfere will be drive the market as well, right?

And so I want something like that.

What like what is condo ownership mean?

What does uh um HOA versus and a PUD?

What are those functions of those people?

Um be simple, the types of ownership different it in a condo, it's it's much different.

There's no land, that type of thing.

And I think we really need to have a great understanding of that because I think condos are a flexible great idea for to meet this middle housing.

Also, I think we could probably we do have both uh density bonuses in the land development code now, which is in the PUD section, believe, right?

Yeah.

So and so maybe a brief history on what we have now to incentivize um people to do those types of of building would be great.

Because I I'm we're we're talking about we always talk about it.

Now if you want Brian at this point no, no, we need to be talking down here because we're ready to act.

Yeah.

Well, just on your point, in terms of restrictions on owner occupancy going forward.

That is it's easy to say and harder to do.

Okay.

One, you have to have a means of monitoring who is occupying that home.

And so that might be an annual reporting requirement, but somebody has to uh inquire and verify who owns the home and who's living in it and whether or not those two match.

Okay, that's piece number one.

Piece number two is what happens when that what when it doesn't match.

You committed to owner occupancy and the owner isn't there.

Then what do we do?

What's the repercussion?

Right.

And so one question is who does that?

Is it the city?

Well, that requires staffing and monitorings.

Okay.

Uh, you can do it through an HOA where you create uh you create this project, housing project, if it's big enough, you can require anything.

And you say you be more specific.

The city could require as part of approval of the project that they create an HOA, and one of the terms would be owner occupancy, and they would be tasked with policing their own.

In the C C and Rs.

In the CCNRs, correct.

Another version that Dan uh brought to my attention, Park City has had a lot of these challenges with uh workforce housing.

And so they have criminalized uh non-owner occupancy.

And uh, I'm not sure how well that works.

I don't think that they've incarcerated anyone, but they've said that uh as soon as the police show up, they get very quick compliance.

But that's it's one more tool.

Um we have not looked extensively yet at what how how other cities enforce, for instance, uh affordability requirements if they're no longer eligible.

The challenge you've got is you've got an occupant in that house that you can't really just put out on the street.

Um so it usually ends up being some form of monetary fines as a disincentive uh to comply.

But but whoever does that, it's a significant time staffing time and expense to monitor that.

And it starts out small, but the more of these you assemble over time, the the greater that task becomes.

And the uh apartments on 90 south below the car dealership is a really good example.

That project was built, not low income, it's the rent is based on your income.

And so you see a lot of school teachers in there.

That and we um that was funded through the government, partial up some of it, not uh the federal government, not us, but those types of restrictions come from the federal government when they lend money on these types of dwelling units.

And all of these tools probably aren't gonna work on a two or three or six lot new subdivision, right?

The a lot of these would be some of the tools would be utilized in substantially larger.

And so if we could get an idea of how those types of ownerships would function in a two lot, you know, we're talking about um doing uh one dwelling unit that has four, like a fourplex in it, that type thing.

What would what could we use to regulate those?

Right.

That's just that's my thought.

And and and if they are um I have spent a fair amount of time exploring why we're not getting condominiums the way we used to.

There are insurance, yeah.

It's it's it's it's not the size, the look of the box, whether it's departments or condominiums is the same, right?

So it's not local government that's creating.

It's it's uh it's financing, it's insurance, it's liability issues, it's it's complicated issues, some building code issue, fire code issues.

But um I have I have heard from other sources that the financing of condominiums is very difficult.

So you can build a four-plex and rent it more economically than you can build a four-plex and sell the units.

Okay, so if that's the case, we'd have to figure out some mechanism to make up that gap, or no one's no one's going to do it.

Salt Lake City a few years ago said we will let anyone anywhere in the city subdivide your property if the additional unit you add is affordable.

They've had very few takers because the cost of building the unit is so challenging that the affordability restrictions on occupancy make it so they they created the opportunity on paper, but no developers, no property owners have taken it because uh and here's another thing.

I mean, if we would allow an apartment building, we could allow them to be built, we would regulate them to be built at condo specs.

So at some time they could be sold units because the they they are built differently, and that's kind of a holdup in the apartments that we have now.

They could never go to Connor um condo ownership because of the way that they were built.

Yeah, the uh I guess I I don't know the answer.

I'm not I don't have all the expertise, but I know that early in my career when I was working in Salt Lake City, we would frequently get condo conversions, existing apartment buildings that were converted.

I don't know how they did it and what the obstacles were, but we'd want to know what those are to enable that in advance.

Um but but if you think about it, one version one is in an area like the Cairns where you have you know multifamily dwelling units, and how many of those are owned or rented?

And the others are if you really want to increase the availability of housing, we have to be able to do that in the in the the single family neighborhood areas because that's the vast majority of the city.

So they're two different models, and the sort of the hybrid of that is what you see currently.

Sometimes you see twin homes that are attached, but they're separately sold.

Okay.

That's sort of a hybrid, sort of an in-between version of those two.

But so you're interested mostly in facilitating the um the monitoring of the homeownership.

Did I say that right?

Or did I miss your no?

I I mean, on the exact tools that we can use, such as a deed restriction.

What does that what's the definition of that and how does that look?

The fundamentals of it, just who places the deed restriction, how does it work?

Does it get recorded?

You know, all of those things.

Yeah, I can tell you typically um a deed restriction is is recorded.

It's uh by contractor, it's on the plat, it gets recorded the time the unit is created.

Yes, it is recorded against the property.

The the bugaboo is who monitors and who enforces and what are you?

Versus uh deed restriction versus a contract.

They are there those are two different names of the same thing.

The deed restriction is a contract, but it is recorded against the property.

Yeah, and it's perpetual, usually.

Yes, or for 10 years or whatever the duration you can.

So okay, anything else?

Other feedback.

Madam Chair, can I ask a follow-up question just related to enforcement?

That's enforcement's always been of owner occupancy has kind of been the sticky wicket, in my opinion.

But uh, you know, we have an ALJ at administrative law judge.

And I'm wondering, do you feel like it would be possible to uh administratively enforce it in some fashion through the ALJ?

Um that's a good question.

I should probably say I don't know.

That's the safest answer tonight.

I would hope so.

The state code has specific provisions for administrative enforcement, and most of those are aimed at code enforcement, uh nuisance, weeds, junk, that type of thing.

I'd have to review the state code to see if it's broad enough to encompass something like this.

So it might be, I don't know.

Part of the land development code potentially.

Well, if the state authorizes it, then yes, then we could then we could incorporate that.

Ms.

Stroud.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um back up to the questions a little bit.

Uh you know, I my top priorities, you know, are the neighborhood stability, but also long time creating longtime home ownership.

Uh people that are coming in and setting down their roots.

Um, and you know, and making Sandy, you know, their their home, not just temporarily, not just for a couple of years, but have plans to be here for for quite a while.

So, you know, and I guess that kind of ties into, you know, when you were looking at like question number four, um, you know, how long, you know, and I think 10 year kind of for deed restrictions.

Um I I mean, I I this is just you know, very superficial.

I'm sure that there are pros and cons to doing shorter and then possibly longer as well.

But um, you know, I really am looking kind of for that long-term benefit.

Um, you know, it is very important for me to create four cell housing.

Uh, I don't have as much I guess emphasis, you know, on well, it has to be affordable or it has to be um, you know, a specific type, as just saying, I'm just looking for owner occupancy, you know, whether that is somebody that is uh sizing down, you know, that had a larger home that you know, this is their second or third or fourth home, you know, throughout their lifetime, um, you know, and they're now 70 years old and looking for a smaller, um, smaller home, smaller yard, whatever that might be, but in a community that they're that they love that they feel safe in, then that's that would be to me, I you know, it I wouldn't want to restrict it to first-time homeowners on that.

Um, you know, but I there's probably a little bit of a balance to that, and I don't know what that looks like.

But you know, I I don't have a high interest of saying it's got to be low income or it's got to be first-time homeowners because I think that there are other areas that people may qualify that I wouldn't want to exclude.

Um let's see.

Um maintain owner occupancy um to those housing units after the initial sale.

Yes, but I don't know for how long.

Um, you know, and I think it kind of goes with that deed restriction.

And I that probably just takes a little more discussion.

I wouldn't want, you know, somebody to go in by the house, they turn it over in two years, and somebody else buys it, they turn it over in two years, and it just continues in this, okay.

Now it's a rental, and it becomes a rental, or that's that's some sort of workaround.

That's where the legal minds can work on that.

So um, you know, I I'm just I'm not sure with that.

Uh, you know, incentives, yes, you know, the the density, and I know that we've got some of that in there um in in our code already.

Um, I'd be looking at, you know, identity, you know, fee waivers, um, accelerated approval, yes.

Um, city funding, you know, kind of looking at something with Casey right now already on that.

Um I I do have concern with opening density kind of everywhere.

You know, I don't think in the middle of a neighborhood throwing in and saying, well, we're gonna double your density density.

Um, to to codify that I'm looking at this, I guess a little more.

You can you can take little steps forward, but if you take a giant step and you go, oh boy, what did we do?

Can't take that back.

So smaller steps.

Um, and you know, and codifying, and I understand, you know, saying, hey, a developer can see this and be like, that's the package I want.

I'm gonna seek that out and I'm gonna go for it because it is clear to them.

And I understand, you know, how that that can be beneficial, but at the same time, it doesn't fit everywhere.

You know, Sandy is Sandy's landlocked.

And to say, here's our set, here's our criteria, go for it.

And then we realize because somebody comes forward and does something in an area that we're going, oh, ooh, actually, we um except for that area, we made a mistake.

Uh, that's I I want to try to stay away from as many of those as we can.

So I'd be looking at maybe some more of the baby steps forward first.

Um so yeah, codifying not yet, I guess more of the case by case, and I know that that makes it a little more challenging.

Um, you know, and then it is less ideal for developers.

Um, I would be, you know, I had a very similar question with the ALJ, you know, that Dustin had, you know, is this something that an ALJ can be a part of that process?

You know, it what does that look like?

You know, the with Park City looking at criminalizing that, that seems to be pretty bold step forward.

Um, but you know, we have this this uh this law judge kind of stepping in and doing some really great things, but right now we're looking at lawns and cars and you know, more of that fact.

But you know, so I'd be interested in that part of it.

Um I don't know, does that give you kind of the high level?

I know you were saying, Yeah, one follow-up question.

You mentioned that you wanted to incentivize or encourage longtime homeownership.

Does that mean that you're not wanting to put words in your mouth?

But um so tell me if I'm getting this wrong.

Are you looking for destination homes or are you also looking for starter homes?

Because starter homes by definition may not be long-term owners.

Maybe both.

Maybe both.

I mean, it is that's why your comment gave me a pause just to make sure I understand what you're you're after there.

And I guess it's and I understand the need for starter homes.

I mean, that's back in the day when I bought my first home in Sugarhouse when it was a starter home community.

Uh, there was a sense that you would buy your starter home, and after a period of years, you would save enough money and get enough equity that you would buy your destination home.

And uh, and then there, and there were neighbors neighborhoods where the homes were larger and more expensive, and uh the people who moved in there moved in to stay.

They're gonna raise their family and they might move when they're all their kids were gone, but they were here for the duration.

So I didn't, I don't I didn't know if that's what you meant to suggest or not.

Um I didn't want to misinterpret you.

And a little bit of both, because that's you know, a starter home, I think as I look at it now, what a lot of our younger families are saying is a starter home is often an apartment because that's something that they are starting in, yet it's not a one or one year or 18 month lease, and then or two years and we've saved enough money for a down payment.

They're they're needing to be in these these rental units for quite a while.

And with the expense and the cost to it, that three, four years is turning into seven, eight, nine, ten years.

And some people are just not able to save when they're putting $2,000 a month, 2200 a month towards towards rent, they're just not able to save for a home.

I mean, in 30 years, you know, you set aside a couple hundred bucks a month in 30 years, you'll have enough for a down payment.

Well, and unless unless you build a very small home on a small lot that costs less.

To a certain extent, I think, I mean, even a small home and a small lot, we're still looking at 500,000.

I mean, that's that's still just a lot of money.

So I think that there's a both.

Um, you know, I this last summer I was up walking, you know, I had a resident call me and say, hey, you know, really unhappy with large corporations buying these houses, walked up and down a street, and he pointing, he goes, that's a rental, that's a rental, then the same business that owns that one and that one and that one owns this one and this one, and it was more than half of this street.

And and it really became evident how many rentals we have, and a lot of them are by large businesses.

Um, you know, these corporations.

So I'm I'm looking at home ownership where people can come and say, this isn't just a house, this isn't a housing unit, this is my home.

This is my city.

And I plan to be here for for quite a while.

So I mean, I but I do think yes, both.

I mean, that destination and and starter home.

There's a there's time and a place for both of them and a need, I think for both.

Not everybody's looking for their starter home.

They've been in their starter home and they're saying, I love Sandy, but I need a bigger home, or I want something that fits my family or or me, or just you know, my six significant other a little bit differently.

Um, and I don't want to exclude that either.

Just home ownership.

Okay.

Thank you.

So when we're talking about this, my brain jumps to um short-term rentals.

And how we've codified that, right?

And it sounds, and maybe I'm making a big jump here, but that's the direction we're headed in, is codifying uh the number of rentals you can have in a neighborhood, an area something.

And so am I here, am I just making that up?

Well, I thought you were going to go a different direction that I thought you were going to say short-term rentals, we have regulations and they're a nightmare to enforce.

They are.

Yeah, they are.

That's that's the second part of my, yeah.

Yes.

But like that's what it feels like.

This discussion, like is it like the overall arching thing is if we want to incentivize home ownership.

The only way that we can do that is to, I mean, we can incentivize all we want, but once it's sold or past that, like we're back in the same situation, possibly.

Well, what you this is this is where I why I want to know what you're after.

Exist the existing housing stock is what it is.

So it wouldn't affect any of that.

We're talking about new development that occurs incrementally, large small projects, and and how you can you can encourage what you want more of.

Okay, and incentivize that.

So you can you can you're and many of these projects.

Uh I'll just I'll take the Salt Lake City model where you have a lot more multi-family housing.

Oftentimes someone will go into those and they say, We're not going to prohibit all rentals because we have people who um who either travel a lot or they work overseas, or they want to go on a mission and they don't want to sell it, we have to have to move just because they allow a certain percentage of rentals or a lot of HOAs will allow no more than X percent of these units to be rented at any given time.

So it may not be all or nothing.

That's piece number one.

Piece number two is that for wherever the rules apply.

So if there is a restriction for owner occupancy, then that unit could not be occupied by someone who is not the owner.

So de facto, that would prohibit corporate ownership.

Right.

So it's going to be purchased by an individual.

And then you would have to, you would you would be essentially be insisting that that individual, as long as they own it, that they occupy it.

And the day they don't occupy it, that you would insist that they sell it to someone who's willing to do that.

That's the concept we're after.

But that, like in my head, that jumps us straight to like that's in essence short-term rentals are the same.

And I think that ADUs are going, we're going to be in the same boat with that, like how we handle those restrictions.

You can be on our occupied, but you can have an ADU.

Like what are our well, like how do we?

So I'll just use AD ADUs as an example, whether it's an internal ADU in the basement or an external in the backyard.

Um state code says cities can't require owner occupancy, meaning we're not going to let you have an ADU in the backyard or in the basement unless you, the owner, are living in the building.

Most cities have imposed that as a requirement.

Now, why?

Because we get a lot a lot less mischief if the owner is on the property, right?

We don't get as many noise complaints, nuisance complaints, parking, all because the owner manages them.

Um, but you still have to find a mechanism to police it.

Yes.

But by definition, if you have two units there, you can only require the owner to occupy one of them.

One of them.

Yes.

So you're you're de facto authorizing a rental unit in exchange for a guarantee of owner occupancy of the primary unit.

Which I'm not opposed to.

I'm just saying, like maybe that's one of our triggers that if we make ADU's owner occupied one one of the two buildings, then that encourages owner occupancy and provides rental spaces.

Correct.

So we may not be as worried about not having rentals.

Like I don't how many, how much do we even have any idea how much of our city is rentals?

Historics about 50%, but that's one very small piece of it.

I'm sure James knows the answer to that.

He knows the answer to most of these questions.

So 18% of our city is 19% of our city is already in this situation.

And I'm assuming we'll only James.

Do we know how many, like what we would consider single family how homes?

Isn't that the question I asked Jake?

So I was curious about that as the starting point.

Like, do we have a problem to solve, right?

And that always starts, where are you?

So I asked Jake, and you got copied on the answer, and so did you.

So they were the question was we looked at only single family detached homes, because once you got into multiple units, it was hard to know what they were anymore.

So single family detached homes was by far the biggest quantity.

What we found was eight percent were either vacant or rented.

Eight percent of our single family detached homes that we know of, right?

Like how would we know?

Through a census.

It was through the census.

Okay.

So assuming people were accurate.

So they have a different address other than the property address.

That's one of the indicators that it's rented.

Yeah, it's not owner occupied.

Yeah.

Okay.

Just put this in in contrast, Salt Lake City, you know, which is twice as large as any other city in the state is majority, majority renter.

Yeah.

So I'm just thinking like, I'm not opposed to like I I agree with almost everything everyone said, right?

I want a mechanism.

I want some details about how it happens.

I I want to incentivize long-term housing.

Um, my brain is just jumping to like this umbrella that I think applies to multiple pieces of what we're facing as a city right now.

And actually started talking to James and his team about this, but just there's a way a way we can like manage this and make that because I think the ALG is a great way to enforce it, but it's can we are the big questions I have.

Can we enforce it?

Can we how do we do that?

Right.

And the um I think the there's also a threshold there where you may say if you say this has to be 100% owner occupied, that's going to be less appealing than if there's some latitude.

Right.

Um now again, bear in mind there's a different set of rules for multifamily housing than for single family neighborhoods.

The way you the way you the what the incentives you would give in a single family neighborhood is still more density, but it's going to be smaller lots, smaller homes, and uh, and then you might insist that all of those be owner occupied.

So I don't really have much with great reluctance, he's going to share.

I mean, I don't have much new to add.

Um I will throw out though, like home ownership is important, and I think we mostly think of it in terms of first-time ownership.

But as I think about it, it's like different pathways to get to ownership.

And something we talked about in the workshops were like cottage cottage housing, we're in this silver tsunami.

Uh representative Oakerland, I think was here talking about his neighbors have like 10 bedrooms in all the houses around and they're not being used, and his neighbors are stuck there, and they're 70, 80, and they're gonna be stuck.

So that is a pathway for home ownership to get them out into something else that's important to me in the grand scheme of it.

Um but I yeah, I think we should be really intentional about creating conditions where those home ownership uh options are uh reality, and uh we should make it so that they can't be rapidly changed into rental units.

I agree with a deed restriction uh of 10 years.

I think that would be great.

It would um, you know, create the stability of the the goals that the city is is working on, but not be overly burdensome to buyers down the road.

I think that's a reasonable window.

Um thing that hasn't been mentioned, like we've talked about density bonuses, expedited review, things like that.

I think uh reduced parking requirements in certain areas, especially in your transit, would be a bonus that I get behind.

Um the last question, uh definitely, yes, uh we should codify those incentives um with uh with a good system so that we have periodic review uh flexibility to adjust to make sure that we're hitting hitting the goals that we want to target.

Thank you.

Because it's be nice to lawyers' day.

I'm gonna agree with something you said.

Just one.

Um I completely agree with if we want to get something, we have to give something.

Um it is not my goal that starting now, every single home built in Sandy is owner occupied.

That is not my goal.

Like we're going to set a new condition on the next 5,000 homes that don't apply to the previous 30,000.

You know, I don't anyway.

But so I would tie owner occupancy to affordability.

That's how I would tie it.

I think if we want affordable housing, then we give the incentives.

If we are giving an incentive, no matter what incentive that takes, we are paying part of the cost.

We are giving a density bonus.

Whatever the incentive is, then I think we have the ability to place a condition.

So to me, that's just logical.

If we're going to get something, we have to give something.

What did we give on Fortner?

And in that case, an increase in the density.

So as as compared to, so we had annexed them in six months before.

And we had annexed them in at the same zoning that they had in the county.

However, remember the builder said, I'm giving you a proposal that's the same as your general plan.

So once our zoning map, once our general plan becomes a zoning map, then we lose that ability.

So I'm going to say we did something for Fortner on a technicality that maybe soon won't exist anymore.

And the reason I bring this up too is because if density bonuses are a really good tool, I agree with that.

Density bonuses are a good tool.

But did we already start at too high a density in our general plan?

That's my question.

I'm asking.

So it's something we may consider.

We may need to backpedal a little bit.

Um, but if if we as a city are giving any incentive, whether it be dollars, whether it be land, whether it be additional density, whatever it is, I think that we have the ability in that case to set conditions.

Um, and that could be a deed restriction, but I think it would be in the pursuit of affordable housing.

Now I assume the question's gonna come up about how do you define that?

I don't care if we define it on a case by case basis or if we define it it's 80% AMI or whatever we just we define it as, but the more granular we get to your point, the more workload it is.

And this is not small.

I mean, let's say it's workforce housing.

Every time there's a turnover, we have to make sure somebody complies.

Um whatever it is, this this is this is a big deal.

Um I don't think we have a problem with developers wanting to develop in Sandy.

I don't see that being a problem.

Like we set up too many barriers, too many expectations.

I don't see that.

Um, I've never heard that.

I know home builders, they don't say that.

Um, but I want to part of building more housing is attracting developers.

And the more contracts we put in front of them, and the more expectations, the more we repel them instead of attract them.

So I don't know how we strike this balance.

What I do know is on April 29th, this is the first meeting of the steering committee for the land development code, and we're about to undertake all of this.

I'm not to me this feels like coordination with that effort.

Um, rather than I I think what's coming in terms of affordability and housing and missing middle, I think that's all teed.

If I have that right, I think that's teed up pretty early in the process.

Um I think that process is gonna inform us, maybe even more than what we've said informs you, but um I um yeah, I just want to make sure that as we tighten these screws a little bit in our pursuit of affordable housing, that we are doing it in a way that doesn't place huge burdens on either our staff or the builders and developers.

So I'm just I'm just saying, but I don't owner occupancy is only my goal.

Is my goal contractually if it's paired with affordability?

That's where I am.

Okay.

Thank you for that feedback.

A couple of thoughts.

Um, and I don't want to belabor the discussion tonight because I think we've gotten some good feedback to start with.

Um if you think about several of you talked about codifying this, and what you might say is cities willing to offer these kinds of incentives.

We will offer those incentives for owner occupancy or for affordability or for senior.

You can give them a menu of options, right?

And you developer property owner, decide which one you want to pursue, but we're here to partner in making that happen.

Okay.

But the housing plan was based premised on the notion that we wanted more housing, the right kind in the right places, et cetera, et cetera.

Again, multifamily housing someplace like the Cairns uh area is very different than in the single family neighborhoods.

So ask yourself, we don't need to belabor this tonight, but ask yourself what incentives you would you be willing to offer to get more housing, meaning more units in a single family neighborhood.

Think about that.

Um second point, just for you to think about we have several projects coming up soon.

We have a project over here on 90th South.

We may have a project at Crescent View Middle School.

What do you want to see happen there?

What incentives are you willing to give to get what you want built there?

That's not two years away.

That's soon.

So you need to think about that.

And that brings me to point number three, and that is how fast do you want to pursue this?

Do you want to just do this as part of the general plan rewrite that will be finished by the end of 2027?

Or do you want to move it faster than that?

I won't be orchestrating that, but that would be helpful to know.

Um give that some thought.

We can circle back whenever you want to have a further discussion.

Um, but I think this is this is a good start uh for us to think further about next steps, and that's what we'll do.

So, James, I'd like to invite you up if you want to add some comments on yeah, timing.

So and what specifically is happening when.

So on the development code rewrite, we just received, we just worked through the first outline of that, which you will be hearing those who are on the committee on the 29th, who can bring that back, obviously to the city council.

They've broken the 18 months into three different tiers, and each of those tiers are basically six six and a half months each.

And the first one you directed us in our workshop through the workshop series, and then as you approve the housing uh document that came out of the workshops, in that you directed us to work on certain things in a certain order, and that's what you recommended to us.

That's what we passed along to the consultant.

And in tier one, they will be addressing that's in the first six months.

They will be addressing um stationary area plans, the framework for those.

There's several other things like Ludma compliance, but I won't get into that because it's not housing.

Um, they will be addressing ADU reform, but we will have already finished that.

We're pretty much doing our first presentation on that next week to you.

Um they will be addressing mixed-use TOD standards.

Those will address our shopping centers and the um some of those areas that we have housing that the general plan called for in those areas, and that will definitely include and can include affordable housing as part of that discussion as well.

They are addressing missing middle housing standards in the first six months, and that would address the things that you're talking about tonight.

Um zoning consolidation and land use matrix monetization will be in the first six months.

So this part of it, we moved it to the front.

That's when they're doing it, and they're supposed to have that done in the first six to seven months.

Okay.

First thing teed up is external ADU, and that's coming right away.

Okay.

All right.

Anything else, anyone in the Madam Chair, can I just add something?

Yeah.

So uh I just wanted to know, and you know, as James just mentioned, uh, external AD uses is coming up.

And then the the there was a third item, right?

That we had as an initial, and that was uh uh specific uh city and RDO RDA owned properties and some recommendations on things that might happen on those, which Casey's gonna talk about.

I believe it was in June in June.

Um, and so those two things are on the list, right?

The reason one of the main reasons I think we talked about this tonight was because it became clear in the series that owner occupancy was so important to the majority of you.

And I'll be honest with you, I think it's the most complicated question that's before us.

And so I think we've taken some notes on things that you've requested that would be helpful.

What I would ask is over the next week, if you could think about this in a little bit more detail, specifically focusing on what other information do I personally need in order to start making decisions in the future related to owner occupancy and how that might apply to uh uh you know, future housing in Sandy.

And I'd ask you to email those to me so that we can have a conversation as a group and figure out how best to answer those questions.

Again, Chris, you already brought up a few questions that you had I've written down.

And Alison, you have brought up some questions, and Cindy, those are all I've written those down.

But if there's anything that wasn't brought up tonight, please let me know so that we can make sure to hit that target in terms of answering your questions, giving you the information that you need to move forward in the future.

Does that make does that make sense what I'm asking for?

Cindy's smiling at me like it doesn't make sense.

I think one thing that that I don't know if you wrote it down, but that Lynn mentioned is location.

Yeah.

So where are we talking about doing these kind of that's I think that's really critically important too?

We we talked about that, if you recall, uh, in one of our workshops.

And um, so there is some information about that in the report, but that's not the end all be all.

I don't think again, that's why I think this is probably the most complicated question.

It's really easy to work on ADUs, it's easy to work on.

Well, hey, here's a particular property.

What are we going to do with it?

But the overarching question of owner occupancy, for example, that's that's really difficult.

And that's why we need to make sure that we have we know the questions that you have so that we can answer them for you.

And so if you have specific questions or specific things that you say, hey, well, what about what about you know, deed restrictions, you know, Chris brought up?

What about that?

That would be helpful information for us so that we can answer those questions for you and bring forward a recommendation.

Sure, just one last comment I neglected to make, and that is relative to what you mentioned about the general plan.

Your general plan is an aspirational statement of where the community wants to go over an extended period of time.

It is not a statement of present condition.

That's your zoning map.

Okay.

So don't think as you go through this that you have to just adopt your general plan as your zoning map.

Generally, what you do is you say, this is our zoning map.

We hope to get to this place in the future.

If you're willing to help us do that, whether it's owner occupancy or increased housing or the right kind of housing, we'll help, we'll help open the way for you.

We'll partner with you.

So this becomes in effect an opportunity to move in the direction of your general plan, not by right immediately, but by partnering with the city to make that possible because they're helpful they're willing to help us achieve some of the goals that you have in mind.

The general plan, the um the F L U M, uh future land use map is not currently a zoning map.

That is a current condition.

I'm not sure how long that's gonna be the case.

Not only did the legislature want to make our general plans um zoning maps, and we managed to push that back, right?

But I've even heard talk about it that our future land use map will become a zoning map.

So I'm I'm bracing for that.

I would love it if the general plan is only forever aspirational.

That would be great.

And and speaking of aspirational, what you you can't be afraid to move in that direction when someone helps you to do it.

We would I remember the days um before I came to the city about what the Cairns district would look like when we implemented the full plan.

And as partners have come along and helped us do that, we've embraced that, right?

Um, but the the challenge with housing is that you cannot simultaneously increase the availability of the housing of housing and also keep everything the way it is.

Something has to change if you're going to increase housing.

And that's the challenge that you face as elected officials because you're you will have constituents on both sides of that issue.

So okay.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for coming up to the podium too.

I know that was hard clear.

All right.

We were way overrun our general citizen comment time.

I have one blue card.

Um, and we'll go ahead and call you down, Henry, because we've made you wait a long time.

So Henry Butters, come on down.

You have three minutes when your comment talk starts.

Anyone else who would like to make general comments in the room?

We have the blue cards in the back, and in a second, we'll have Dustin tell our online audience how to do that.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Sharky, for getting back to me on that uh situation on the dog catchers.

I feel like every dog catcher should have a camera body camera on them.

We had a situation over at my house.

Uh dog catcher got a little lippy to my wife and locked horns on me.

And I looked at him, I said, You're a public official.

You don't need to yell at my wife.

Yell at me.

No public official should be yelling at anybody when they're in their passive.

Um I feel like Sandy should make that requirement for dog catchers, even one of the um the supervisors like I would want one to protect me from situation like this.

Um another situation is a lot of cars are still parked right behind that fire station.

If I go park by semi down there, how quick are they going to be down there to give me a ticket?

Don't be biased.

That's how I look at it.

It says on our pink slip 20, 48 hours.

Why don't you go pink slip all them freaking cars down there and do your job and do it the right way?

That's how I look at it.

And so you know, Monica.

What's his name have not still got back to me over two weeks ago?

Um Martin.

Two weeks now on some uh questions I had for him.

So you know, but that's my concern.

Um, I really think they need a crackdown on the parking down there.

There are still so many cars down there with no license plates.

That's my concern.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, Dustin, do you want to tell our online audience how to participate?

Of course, thank you, madam chair.

Uh, if you're joining us virtually this evening on Zoom and you'd like to comment on any city business, now's the time.

Just go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen.

I'll call your name in the order in which you raise your hand, and you'll have three minutes.

Not seeing any hands raised, madam chair.

We'll close general citizen comment this evening and move on to our public hearing items.

Um, so council public hearing items this time, just like last week, our annexations, and I plan to handle it just like I did last week, unless someone objects.

Okay.

So we'll take them one by one in order.

And Brian McHuston, if you want to kick us off, that would be helpful.

Thanks.

All right, thank you, madam chair.

Good evening, everybody.

Uh, we have a much shorter list this week where we have four annexations.

Uh, three of them have been by consent, where the property owner saw the public note of science for the other annexations as a hey, I want to join in on this annexation process.

I want to be part of Sandy and not part of Granite.

Uh, those are Alta Three or Alta Villa three, Alta Villa Four, and the Smith annexations.

The G Miller annexation was one that they signed a water letter a year ago.

And so just decided to add them to the list as well.

Um, but we've got the list up here on the screen.

So Alta Villa 3 is located at 10184 South Alta Villa Drive.

They signed the consent on March 9th.

Um, currently they're zoned R143 in the county, and we're proposing to zone them to R140A in Sandy, and the planning commission is forwarding a positive recommendation on this particular one.

Any questions for Brian?

Council.

I don't see anything.

All right.

Okay, remember, did we open it for public for the property?

I haven't yet.

Are you gonna are I can keep going?

Okay, keep going because I'm just gonna move through them like last time.

Okay.

Uh Alta Villa 4 is located at 10274 and 1010302 South Alpha Villa Drive, both under the same property owner's name.

Again, zoned R143 in the county and proposed to be R140A here in Sandy.

Planning commission is forwarding a positive recommendation.

Uh the Smith annexation, which is 9519 South Hidden Pine Lane.

Um they would be connected due to the other annexation, the hidden pine annexation, which is currently in the process.

There's on R115 in the county.

We would zone them R115 here in Sandy.

Uh again, planning commission for day positive recommendation.

And the G mailer is located at 10324 South Dimple Dale Cove.

Uh should be Dempleville Drive, sorry.

Uh property owner, they signed a water red agreement back in June of 2024.

Currently zoned R121 in the county.

We would zone R120A here in Sandy City.

All right, same question.

Any question, any questions at all?

Nope.

All right.

Thank you, Brian.

Okay, I'm gonna open the public hearing on these four uh annexations that are number four, five, six, and seven on our agenda.

I will start with asking for property owners on each one of these in order.

Is a property owner for the Alta Villa three annexation available in the room or online and would like to speak to this item.

All right, I see none.

Um next item is Alta Villa 4 annexation.

Is there a property owner in the room or online that would like to speak to this item?

See none.

Uh item number six is the Smith annexation.

Is any property owner in the room or online and would like to speak to this annexation?

All right, and then we have the G Miller annexation.

Is a property owner in the room or online wanting to speak to this annexation.

Okay, and as last time, we'll move on to any other interested parties.

I have no blue cards on this.

Anyone in the room that would like to speak to any of these four annexations.

And Dustin, if you'd like to invite the online audience.

Of course, madam chair.

Uh if you're joining us virtually and you'd like to comment on any of this evening's public hearing agenda items for the annexations, just go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now, and I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand, and you'll have three minutes.

None, madam chair.

I see no interested parties, so I'm going to close the public hearing on these four annexations and bring it back to the council for action.

Madam Chair, I'll make a motion that we uh approve the Altabilia Alta Villa 3 annexation and it be zoned R140A.

Do you need any more detail, Dustin?

Or is that enough for you?

Um, you know, Madam Chair, uh, one question I had is is there interested in adopting them all at the same time?

Yeah, yes.

If so, uh you could just make a motion to adopt uh ordinance 26-36, ordinance 26-37, ordinance 26-38, and ordinance 26-39.

Okay.

I'll take a motion back because we didn't get a second.

I'll motion that we approve ordinance 26, 36, 26, 37, 2638, and 2639 with the zonings.

I'll second.

All right, a motion and a second roll call vote.

Ms.

Nickel, yes.

Ms.

Houseman, yes.

Ms.

Sharkey, yes.

Ms.

Christianson, yes.

Mr.

Dick Hyser.

Yes.

Ms.

Straut, yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero.

Thank you.

All right, council.

We have two items on the consent calendar.

One is the acceptance of an ILA that will bring some funds to Sandy.

And the second is another intent to annex.

Do I have a motion to adopt the consent calendar?

So moved.

Second.

All right.

All in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed.

All right.

Um, we are going to have an RDA meeting.

So I will make a motion that we recess the city council meeting and convene a meeting of the Sandy City RDA.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed.

All right.

Casey.

Thank you, madam chair.

Um, I'm just going to I have the easy work tonight.

I'm just going to turn the time over to uh Dan Nelson if that's all right, and he'll walk you through this item on the agenda.

And counsel, this is an information item for discussion tonight, and it'll be on a late a voting calendar.

I think we have it tentatively scheduled for next week for voting.

Okay.

Thank you, Dan.

Hi, good evening.

Um, let's see.

Do we have that graphic that was in the we can if you give us just a second, we can pull it up for you.

Okay.

Okay, Dan.

Liz, would you mind pulling up the graphic?

Okay.

Uh so the Arbor building, we own it now.

Umperations going well.

We're uh, yeah, we've talked to all the tenants, they're getting all their systems set up to transfer rent directly to us.

Um now we're getting ready to move some of the city tenants into the building.

And as you know, uh the RDA, it requires an RDA resolution before the city puts any city occupants in the building.

So uh yeah, we're coming before you to uh seek approval for three different departments right now to go into the Arbor building.

Um and those would be community arts or the arts guild and parks and rec administration, and then uh economic development or the RDA.

So um I've put a graphic that shows the layout um of the different suites that are currently vacant and um kind of what we're thinking as far as the different suites, and I'm happy to answer any questions uh you'd like.

Ms.

Nickel, I have a question.

How many people from Parks and Rec.

Uh I don't know that off the top of my head.

Let's see.

Would be moving over.

I don't.

If you give me a minute, I could count on my fingers, but we're probably talking somewhere between 12 to 15.

Okay.

Is that your the entire staff there?

Pardon?

Is that the entire staff?

No, it would be the uh administrative staff.

Okay, uh kind of the higher level.

Okay, cool.

And three in RDA?

Three people in RDA, Dan.

I think that's right.

Yes.

And what was the other department?

Uh arts.

Oh, how many in the art skills?

Six.

Okay, thanks.

Ms.

Housman, go ahead.

Just a quick clarifying question.

You said um RDA yet to be determined, and you list the three possibles.

265 is showing currently as lease, but is that the one that is um exiting?

And so it will be a potential option come summer of 26.

Yeah, it's it's a better size suite than site than suite 270 for the RDA.

Right.

Um, the thought is that we would be putting 270 out for lease and I hope to find a private tenant.

Uh we only have about 18 months left on the term for suite 265.

Okay.

Uh, they have their space up for sublease and have indicated they'd love a buyout if it were offered.

Um, so you know, if we the thought is if we could find a tenant for suite 270, which would give us a longer term.

Um, you know, then that would we'd switch those.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, just making sure I was tracking.

Thank you.

That's all I have.

So um my concern with this plan is that it hasn't accommodated what I thought was the main driving need for adding more space, and that was accommodating the needs of the police department.

So I um we have it appears to me, unless I'm missing something that we haven't done in this scheme plan.

We haven't done anything at all to free up space for the police to expand and have more breathing room.

Is that correct?

Um yeah, I mean, I think we determined that this is not good space for police.

That we definitely did that.

So what I'm suggesting is I thought what we were going to be looking at was freeing up space in City Hall by moving a department or departments over here that would allow the police more space.

Yeah, none of the departments were moving or freeing up space for police.

So for me, that would be a challenge.

That'd be a hurdle.

I would I would want to say, I mean, I'm thinking that in part because it's the largest one, that maybe, or maybe it's not needed.

You know, parks and rec and art give art skilled K fine.

I'm thinking maybe 270 could accommodate.

I looked back at an older presentation that we had done going back.

Um suite 27 270 is 4800 square feet.

So I'm thinking that's pretty sizable to move a department or departments out of City Hall, leaving the police department room to expand within City Hall.

That would be what I'd be looking for.

Um yeah.

Martin, do you want to address that?

Um, part of the um proposed uh budget for this year will we'll be looking at uh combining some departments, which may also free up some space.

And so this is an ongoing discussion.

We just wanted to respect the the earlier discussions that we had with the RDA board.

Um that's the direction that we're moving in, and and we're uh open to feedback as we move forward.

Go ahead.

Um, how many square feet is RDA right now?

Your space.

Uh let's see.

I saw them as about a thousand.

And what is the plan or do we have one for what's going to go up there?

If we move you the the current RDA space?

Yeah.

For right now, it was um we're holding it for the council staff.

Uh if the the council staff move if you move forward with the remodel, uh having a temporary place to relocate um and still be able to function.

Beyond that, we haven't, we don't have a long-term plan tonight.

We don't.

Dustin may get used to that corner office.

It's got some great views.

Can I make a comment on that, Madam Chair?

Is that okay?

Uh, if if we once we move forward with the remodel, uh, we'll have to hold council meetings in the multi-purpose room.

That space is right next to the multi-purpose room, which is a really good temporary solution for us.

So really open to that.

So for me too, and you know, maybe some of these, I know we have the building, and so we want to start occupying it, and maybe we can do that.

So the question for me, the most logical one would be to use suite 270 move public utilities there.

I mean, I saw in the budget preview that uh there is a proposal to spend a million dollars to build out offices in their operations building on 150th set east.

Um, I don't know where that million dollars is coming from.

So I don't know if that is short term, if we know where that's coming from, if they have the money.

Um, I don't know, but that would be a logical move would be to move public utilities there.

And that way, all police needs to do is move take the stairs and move upstairs.

So for me, a solution that doesn't include um this that's where this whole conversation started is a need for more room for police.

And so far we're not addressing that.

So um councilwoman, that it's uh um viable.

That's what I was looking for, viable option, and we appreciate the feedback.

Um this first phase is just the first phase.

And so um, we are going to potentially market some of these um vacant spaces to see what what the interest is.

There is quite a bit of vacant office space in the area, so we're not sure um the immediate uh response, but looking at at moving part of public works or public utilities, excuse me, is something that that could be considered, but we're we're trying not to move people two or three times with a lot of things in play with the proposed budget.

We're just coming forward with a proposal for today.

Um let that process move forward.

There's still some improvements that need to be made to the existing spaces.

Um, thankfully, it's literally paint and carpet and and maybe a few tweaks here and there.

Um also ordering furniture over there takes a long time.

There's a long lead time on furniture, and and we didn't want to do any of that without uh approval from the RDA at this point.

So that's why we're coming back.

We we we do know this item is on a future agenda, taking all this feedback and information in, and we'll continue to move forward with discussions.

Any more feedback?

I don't see any.

All right, thank you.

All right.

Um we have minutes.

Yeah, thank you, madam chair.

Uh, just a uh minutes looking for approval for minutes for uh RDA meeting February 10th and February 17th.

I'll make a motion to approve those minutes.

Second.

All right, all in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed.

That's all right.

It was as fast as that.

Okay.

Um, yeah, well, we can adjourn chair.

Yes, go back into the council meeting.

Is that where you're headed?

Motion just to adjourn the RDA and reconvene and reconvene city council.

I'll second that.

All in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

Um council, do we need a closed hearing or a closed meeting tonight?

No.

No one's asking for that.

No one needs that.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

We will just go into standing reports then, starting with Dustin's council office directors record.

Uh thank you, madam chair.

Uh, just a couple of items this evening, and I apologize.

I'm going to be looking at my screen while I say this, but uh reminder uh beautification day is on April 25th.

Uh the youth council will be at the cemetery.

And Chris asked me to uh just remind you if you'd like to join, you're welcome.

If there are any other questions about that day or how to participate, you can call Chris and she can help you get oriented.

Okay.

Uh second item is based on the direction you gave us last week.

We have uh we're executing the amended contract with matrix for uh that expanded scope of our uh public utilities uh management study this week.

Uh they're getting started on it.

We should have that all executed.

We're hoping by the end of the week.

Um, and we're expecting about a 30-day turnaround on that.

So we should get it pretty soon after the the uh um presentation of the tentative budget, give you plenty of time to still make a decision, I believe.

Um outside of that, just a couple of notes on upcoming agenda items.

Next week is looking like a pretty heavy agenda.

So everybody be prepared for that.

Uh we do have a youth council graduation uh fire department annual report presentation, the uh ADU discussion that James mentioned this evening.

Uh a uh couple of second readings from council members, including council member Christensen's uh RV amendments and um council member nickels public safety building geobond proposal.

Uh the CDBG annual action plan is also on next week's agenda, which is usually a pretty uh hefty item.

And then um also our uh colleagues from the um MVP.

Uh you may remember that they uh had requested some amendments to their MOU some time ago.

Tracy and I have been in discussions with them.

The legislative session kind of got in the way.

They put it on pause, but they started discussing it with us again a couple of weeks ago.

We think we've come to a good recommendation uh that uh they'd like the council to consider next week.

I'm gonna try to follow up with each of you uh within the next couple of days to just kind of give you a heads up or some background on how those conversations went um so that you're not surprised.

Um, and then uh let's see here.

The RDA item that we just discussed is also tentatively scheduled for uh vote next week.

Um, I don't think I missed.

Oh, I did miss one thing.

Uh the other item that would be on the calendar is uh the possible appointment of Mr.

Littlewood who interviewed tonight.

Uh and I think that's the end of my report, madam chair.

Thank you.

Something Oh, I apologize.

One more thing that I forgot to mention.

Just a reminder.

The following week, the 28th, we have um Carrie Nakamura from Nakamura Associates coming in to do a budget training right before the tentative budget.

That should be really useful.

We're thinking it'll be a two to three hour training.

We are also going to have a closed session that evening after the training, just as a uh heads up to everybody.

If you have questions about that, let me know.

But it'll be uh character and competency uh closed session.

All right, council members, anyone have anything?

Nope.

Nope.

Um I just went to the South Valley Chamber of Commerce.

I know a bunch of us did, and it was a really great event.

So thank you to the administration and to Fire Station 31.

I thought they did a really good job with their tour.

People were excited about it.

And also you're doing historic committee or mine.

Okay, for historic committee.

Um, they met this last week, and they are working on finalizing the contributing historical structures.

So that is the last piece to update the city records and then um have the contractor that they've selected prepare the historic guidelines for us to go over and hopefully put some of them into code.

So um, yeah, so chamber, you know, and that's uh seeing 31 and showing that off.

So station 31 is um always fun, you know, when people are able to see that that first time.

Uh historic committee, the uh youth council, justin Justin, you got that one.

Um also so uh the America 250 up at the Sandy Library, the youth council was up there helping with some of that and uh spoke with um with Sarah, you know, who was running that.

And she said, you know, the first like 10 minutes, they're like, oh, we have like one person, and then like 70 people came in, participated in that art activity.

So um she was very appreciative that she had a little bit of help from the youth council, and you know, it seemed like it went really well up there.

So um, you know, kind of loving these uh America 250 things.

Um the youth council will actually be up at the recenter on Thursday.

So you know it'll be fun and see what looks like a week later from last time I was up there with Brooke.

Um let's see, and the youth council.

So graduation, Dustin, you got that.

Um, but the uh the application window, it will be open for next year's youth council until the 15th.

So if you know anybody that's interested, you know, pass along that um that application.

You know, you can find that online through youth council or through the council page through our Facebook, um, you know, looking at at everything there.

Uh we had so our uh field trip yesterday, so our annual uh East Sandy field trip, and we combine that with Brookwood Elementary.

So City Hall was full with hundred, about 115 eight and nine-year-olds um learning about uh city operations and uh getting a chance to kind of tour the area um, you know, that that encompasses right here in the heart of our downtown, taking a look at our courts building, you know, police fire, uh doing an excellent job.

So Nikki Wyman over in public utilities always does such a great job with uh with water cycle and talking about the importance there.

Um, you know, at the uh canine units, SROs, you know, fire department, station 31, loved it.

And you know, and I always bring up a little story.

We were walking out, and the one of my students looked up at me, and we had we've been to uh Thanksgiving Points Museum and Natural Curiosity a couple of weeks ago.

Um, and he looked up at me and he goes, wow, Ms.

Stroud, this was like three times better than our previous at Thanksgiving Point.

So and that's and to keep in mind, I mean, that is a STEM-themed museum that the kids are just go go go.

Um, there's, I mean, they have ropes course there, they've got this giant pond with fish that are like this big.

Um, I mean, a water section, all sorts of things.

But every single student, every single parent chaperone that we have.

And I've had this year after year after year.

They always, always say how much that they look forward to this field trip.

And that is thank you to staff.

Um, you know, council staff, administration for setting that up.

Um, you know, students are just in awe when they come in here and they're filled in every chair.

You've got people standing at the back, and they're here to learn about their city and what makes it operate.

And the the level of attention that they receive from city staff.

They're just so appreciative of it.

And I get emails from parents after I get texts from parents.

So thank you for making that successful, making it memorable.

I'll have students for years to come, and they come back and they talk about their experience here at City Hall.

Not the one that we're going down to Thanksgiving Point, um, not previous field trips that I've heard about, you know, oh yeah, we went down, you know, the children's museum, um, you know, even J H City.

I mean, this really is such a memorable opportunity for these young kids.

So thank you, administration.

Thank you, council staff for you know, being able and being willing to provide such a wonderful opportunity.

Um see, I think there was some, and I was trying to put back into place, but I think our fourth um our fourth annexation somewhere, and I'm trying to figure this out somewhere.

I think that that came with maybe some track money.

It was uh tied to that.

So if that was with administration, you know, nice work on bringing that in, you know, and getting that annexation in there.

I was trying to find it, and I couldn't figure out where it was.

So if I'm incorrect, but you know, I believe that came with some of that track funding.

So good work on that.

Yeah, number eight on set calendar.

Thank you.

And I was trying to find, but yes, so you know, glad that that came through.

And uh that should be all of my updates.

Thank you, manager.

Sorry, I forgot something.

Just um, so you all know, and you're all invited because I'm sure this is at the top of your list of things to do.

But um, Copperview Elementary, who's a Title I school, and it's they're right on the border of Midvell and Sandy, but the majority of their students are from Sandy from District One.

They're having their first ever fundraiser this Monday night from five to seven, and um, to try and support the kids and like get some money for some um field trips and different things to help the PTA out.

And you're all invited.

There's gonna be a lovely band by council counselor cadell.

The art lawyer is called the counselor.

Counsel for the council.

His band will be playing in Lobby Food Shucks.

So if anyone's interested, Copperview Elementary from five to seven on the 20th.

Thank you, madam chair.

Uh, not to outdo today's be nice to your attorney day, but this week is international dark sky week.

So it's uh opportunity to cherish our night sky, something we often um take for granted.

There was a their executive director did uh April Fool's joke about orbital orbital defense.

They rolled out the first ever nighttime sunscreen.

Um, but it's actually not a joke because there is uh a corporation seeking federal approval to direct sunlight back to the earth on demand at night.

And uh that's just wild.

Um just an element of light pollution that's super concerning.

Last week, um, during public comment, I reviewed the meeting.

There was a gentleman on Alta Villa who was concerned about street lights being put in on his uh street.

And you know, everyone knows this is really really important to me.

And so um I'm gonna start working on a dark sky ordinance, and it would be neat um if there was some type of granite ordinance or an overlay, something like that.

Um, where we're talking about dark sky and lighting uh principles, best practices.

I'd love to be a part of that.

And like I said, I'll be working on that uh uh a greater overlay zone that might affect other parts of the city.

Um switching gears, it's been two meetings since I've reported on the Jordan River Commission.

Um, but last meeting we adopted our budget, and as part of that, Sandy's dues went up $10.

So I just wanted the council to know.

Uh since we're keeping tabs on that.

Also, I learned that Sandy does not currently have a riparian ordinance.

So that's something else that I will be looking to.

Um, you know, we know from dedicating the uh the wetland at Grandpa's Ponds, how important um all to all types of waterways are and things like that.

So it'll be interesting to look into having more protections.

Um similarly, I also want to thank Tom.

I don't know if we've talked about this in council, uh, but we dedicated 2500 acre feet of water.

Did we talk about that?

That was I saw an article about it.

Uh, if we did and I missed it, sorry, but that is so amazing.

It deserves a lot of recognition.

Thank you, and everyone else for the work that went into that.

That is uh super huge.

Um at the same time, if the nuke bros get their way, two of those developments could wipe out those savings.

So we got to keep track of that.

Um, but yeah, since it is dark sky week, I'd encourage everyone to try turning out your lights, see how it makes you feel.

Um, all week through Saturday, there's a scavenger hunt and other activities at Annope Island from 8 to 10 PM.

And finally, the City Nature Challenge is April 24th through the 28th.

And on Sunday, the 27th, there's a really cool event closest to us at the Jordan River Migratory Bird Reserve, which is a federally protected area, not normally open to the public where you can go out with your family and uh take part documenting local wildlife using an iNaturalist app, and there's competition and stuff like that.

So it's a fun way to interact with our community.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks.

Yes, tonight the Zen calendar contained an item number eight out of the approving the interlocal agreement between Sandy City and Salt Lake County for track funding.

That's three million dollars we received from the county track fund for the community recreation center.

The completion of that project would not have been possible without that, and the general skiff and Miller Family Foundation as well.

So they helped us close the gap and meet that final budget goal.

So that is huge and a big um congratulations to our park staff, everybody that worked on that finance.

This is the culmination of years of planning and work.

So although it was on the consent calendar, it's a three million dollar completion.

This is a very, very big deal.

Residents would be very proud to hear about that.

Tonight we heard from the Central Wasatch Commission, and I just wanted to give a report about my work on the CWC and the momentum of the Central Wasatch Commission for passing federal legislation that will protect our canyons wilderness area.

The CWC is a really unique organization.

It is the one, it's a voluntary organization.

It is a convening organization that uh assembles municipalities, transportation services, and its focus is on wilderness protection in our canyons along in the central Wasatch.

Uh that means watershed protection for Sandy.

It's great to have an organization beyond Sandy City, Salt Lake City and Metro Water that is a coordinated organization that's focused on watershed protection.

It's in the city's interest to be an active participant in the CWC, especially now.

Say among the member organization, there's a growing sense of urgency for the passage of this CWNCRA legislation.

And you can find a lot of detail about its history, the history of the mountain accord, the goals of the federal legislation on the Central Wasatch Commission website.

It's a very comprehensive dashboard if you haven't visited it.

Um it's a great way to orientate about environmental preservation that's happening in the canyons, uh, protecting the wilderness area, management of natural resources, especially environmentally sensitive natural resource areas and watersheds, and facilitating year-round outdoor recreation and transportation in a um combined strategy.

So it's very important legislation.

Salt Lake City and all the partner cities are very committed to passing the CW NCRA.

And uh it's very important to and very aligned with Sandy's watershed interests.

Thank you to all the families that turned out to the library for the America 250 Sandy Community Art Contest Saturday's gathering with partnership from the Salt Lake County Library for Community Art States was well attended with more than 100 people participating.

So I hope all of you have had a chance to submit an art and an artistic rendering of America 250 or Sandy 250.

You still have until May 16th to do so.

Um there's mentioned the very successful chamber luncheon at Fire Station 31 behind the boots.

The tour, the business leaders were so interested to hear about what Sandy's doing to promote um and maintain our infrastructure.

It's so important to our business community that we have that readiness, the emergency preparedness, the response, and the resources at the ready.

So it was standing room only in the new uh in the new training room, which was a beautiful area for the business community to gather.

And thank you to our Salt Lake County Chamber partners for hosting that luncheon.

Brookwood Elementary and East Sandy Elementary students uh had the volume was cranked up at City Hall when the school buses arrived yesterday.

It was a really exciting day and certainly a highlight of the year for uh Sandy administration to showcase the canines, the fire trucks, the police vehicles, and even some visiting animals that um excited the children.

More than 120 students participated along with about 50 chaperones, parents, and teachers.

So thank you, Councilmember Stroud.

Thank you to your schools, to your school district for making that visit possible.

It's it's uh it's great for the kids, but it's even better for us to have a chance to connect with those uh citizens and future leaders of the city.

Um yesterday we um met at the Sandy Fire Station 31 for donations uh to be sent to the Zacatecas, Mexico through the coordination with uh Sandy Fire Department, Salt Lake City Fire Department, and West Jordan.

Um they sent decommissioned safety equipment that has uh outlived its useful life and certification for our departments, but could save lives in in central Mexico.

Council member, former council member Dennis Tinney helped coordinate the collection and the transport of those uh resources.

So thank you to Dennis Tenney, thank you to the fire departments, thanks to Chief McConaughey for your leadership and coordinating this multi-agency donation.

And then finally, um last Friday had the pleasure of attending the kindness summit.

The Semnani Foundation hosts the kindness summit each year.

And Sandy City was recognized for achieving a certain uh status.

And I want to invite Susan Wood up to explain uh what we received, and along with um First Lady Abby Cox, we were presented something very special.

This is something we've all earned.

It's a feather in the cap of Sandy City.

This is our certification that says we are an official city of kindness.

You may remember this all started with a joint proclamation with the council and the mayor several months ago, in which we decided to pursue becoming a certified kindness city.

Then we put uh brought out the kindness tree for light of the cairns and children from throughout the city were able to put messages of how they intend to be kind as well as grown-ups.

It was just a fun uh holiday type message for everyone to think about and send.

Uh, we also put up flags at our city parks and fire stations.

You've seen them, I'm sure.

One kind act today, it's the sandy way.

And we started circulating coins.

They're called kindness coins.

And I believe that uh Mr.

Frato received one of those coins.

I'm just wondering, did you ever give it away?

I actually did.

Oh my goodness, that's great.

What we're supposed to do is take the coins, and when we see acts of kindness, we pass the coin along.

So it's always a pay it forward kind of thing to acknowledge folks who are going the extra mile and just doing something nice for someone else.

So I am super proud as a member, a resident of Sandy City and an employee of Sandy City to say that we have earned our official kindness certification.

So congratulations to everyone and thank you for your participation on that.

Let's let it continue.

Thank you.

Thank you, Susan, for your diligence in bringing this program to Sandy.

And uh kindness isn't just for lawyers anymore.

Uh, it's for everyone.

One kind act today.

Um, if you go to the One Kind Act Today website, you can learn um you can request the kindness coins.

They have a QR code.

And so each coin can actually be tracked through acts of kindness.

So you can scan the QR coin code on each coin, put in a little summary of the kind act that you saw as you gave it away or as you received it, and then pass it on.

But it's just uh the flags, the kindness certification, it's a good reminder that um kindness is never out of fashion.

It doesn't cost anything to be kind, and it certainly reflects the values of Sandy.

So very um proud to be a kind of city and also to partner with such an outstanding foundation.

That's it.

Thank you.

CAO report.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just two things.

Um, this coming Thursday at 10 a.m.

Uh, we're doing an emergency communication test.

It will go citywide.

So you should be uh receiving texts or uh emails or phone calls.

Um it will our public will also announce up front that it's a test.

Um that will lead to um some discussions later on at 1030 by um the Paul, the policy group on some of the things that the departments are doing this week uh to prepare uh for emergency situations.

Uh and then um Seagalily Gardens officially opens tomorrow for to the public.

So thank you.

One more quick thing.

Uh we welcome this Kenyon School District Life Skills Academy.

Thank you, Chris Edwards, for bringing the students to the visit with the mayor's office and staff.

And we had a nice sit-down visit with 13 students of different abilities, adults learning life skills, and talked about emotional resilience, um sticking with something even when it's hard when how to respond when things don't go their way.

They had good advice for me.

So I want to thank you for the opportunity to meet with these outstanding students.

Ben, come on down.

Thank you.

Well, we're excited that the uh contract with the county is signed so we can start getting uh reimbursements for that amount too.

That will really help as we move along with this process.

Uh, and that we're on budget um and on track to finish where uh we started the application process.

So that's good.

Um and we're also excited to host the youth city council this coming Thursday at 5:30 on site.

Some of the superintendents of the um Lighton will stick around and kind of walk us through.

It'll come be nice because all the workers will be home and we'll be able to see what's going on without all the chaos.

Um a little bit of an update.

The plumbers uh well, first of all, the may the Masons continue to work on the locker room walls.

Um, and then the plumbers follow right behind them, installing water and drain lines in those uh CME walls.

The electricians continue to install conduit over the basketball courts, the concrete crews continue to form the east exterior wall and the second level deck.

And you hear second, and sometimes they talk uh the reports we get are construction language, but that second layer deck is actually the walking track.

So we were able to get up there uh this past week and actually see the formation of the walking track, which is really cool.

So um that has been formed, and then the still work is continued to complete uh working on completing that entire track, and then we'll continue to pour that in the next couple of weeks.

So that's the update.

Any questions so far?

I don't see you.

Thank you, Ben.

All right, that's the end of our agenda.

I will I'll make the motion to adjourn.

All right, all in favor?

Aye, any opposed.

All right, good night, everyone.

Thank you, and thank you to the lawyers tonight with special, special recognition.

I'm getting my extra kindness points.