So she's able to um see it actually.

Yeah but they were used.

Around here she might just work out so good.

She helps for me.

She's not the taste of that because it wasn't fast last time.

She just I kind of over the personality.

But it was really good and she was really good about it.

I can see her button.

And she's uh what do I do?

She said it's just a lot easier on the eyes, which it is.

Yeah, doing that whole version of the side.

I mean, I'm gonna log in.

She's like, when my brother said he would drive her supply.

Yeah, I know it will push it.

So thanks for setting that up.

Well, I would be drove her too, but to work into the stuff.

Yeah.

And then she got through a few time.

Yeah, yeah.

So we're gonna go.

She shows up early too.

Next interview is 11?

My uh enrollment stuff.

What you haven't done it yet?

I I've gone through most of it.

There was one thing I was wanting to talk with my wife about.

I haven't made that change.

Discuss it in detail with her.

We went to a play last night.

We went to the other Hills Theater.

Oh yeah.

Uh the roof, I guess is what it's called.

It's not nearly as nice as uh our theater.

Oh yeah.

Like it's like a half round.

Uh-huh.

And uh the you know, stage isn't as articulating and this audio isn't nearly as like the production quality is downgraded from what this one is.

Yeah, like this one blows you away.

Really?

Compared to that.

Okay.

I think I've I've only been this one.

We saw the Christmas curl years ago, and I don't remember it super well.

And was that in the round or was it the perscenium in the round?

And that was awesome.

But I I like that.

It's not bad for for um what it is, but like I don't know, just the comparative of what they put into this facility here.

Yeah.

Even though I think that one's older than this one.

I think that one's newer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But what they've got in this, it's better.

Yeah.

Like sound quality's better.

They I think they had a bigger budget maybe for this one.

I don't know.

Which guys go see?

We saw the wizard of Oz.

So it was pretty good.

Yeah.

I was surprised that they didn't uh they did the true version of of the whole production, including the story's a little different than the than the movie.

Like the way the witch captures them is with the jitter bug.

Oh I don't remember that.

Oh yeah.

But yeah.

She casts a spell of the jitterbug and dances their way to capture.

With literal jitter bugs.

So think like jazzy jitterbug dancing.

I was like, oh, I can go see that.

Yeah.

So there's a few songs that are that don't make it into the movie, and the way the story's told is a little different.

So yeah.

The cast that's a good one.

Well you're in the main theater then, or was it one of the it was in that main there's another one that I think is like a a proscenium thrust, I guess is what it's called.

Just like a traditional stage was seating behind it.

Yeah, it's I think it's uh still a half round, it's just not as big.

Okay.

I didn't see inside the other one, so I wasn't sure what the other theater looked like or how it was set up, but yeah.

Um yeah, it was the one that you walk in and you walk up to get into the so it was good.

We had a good time.

I just like to have electric chargers in my car.

I didn't even see those.

You don't look for them unless you're an electric car.

I do have an electric car.

You do?

My wife drives one.

What does she drive?

A Mustang.

Oh really?

Yeah, she loves it.

Yeah.

Really loves it.

She wanted a not mom car.

Something sporty.

Very much a non mom car.

But still had some utility to it.

Yeah.

Like when we got married, she had a white celica.

A GT.

Oh yeah.

So it was like the sports car version of the celica.

Um and uh you know, sold out after we got married and downgraded to one car after we got pregnant.

Yeah.

And uh she's wanted something sporty ever since.

She got it.

And now she she got it.

My brother got one of those.

And I was like, do you want to see it?

Um whatever the turbo thing is.

Is it my sure?

So he puts it in that and he's like stupid at his.

He turns to a stoplight and we're turning left.

So he drops it.

And we're like barked.

I mean, we're like bouncing down the road.

I think I'm like, please.

Uh die today.

Yeah, it's got some mild.

It's a funny car, fun car to drive.

Well, what'd you guys think of Michael?

I think Graham was so impressive that there's a contrast there.

It was.

Michael was good.

Yeah, looks like we got a good poll of candidates, right?

For an entry level job.

So yeah, I'm analysis was off.

Which is an entry-level position.

You're not expecting it to nail it.

Right.

At the same time, like on the technical side.

I think he's it well, technically it seems like Grant would be a quick learner.

Yeah, yeah.

And uh he knew enough to look at the other stack reports.

Well, he said of it the state code about a condition.

Right.

Yes, he did.

Um yeah, if I comparing the two grant uh better deliveries seems to have better social skills.

Yeah.

Um my only concern would be to keep them engaged enough to want to stay that we don't trade them and then he just uses it to just jump to.

I mean, that's always the I think we're injured by the farmer.

I mean, that's kind of what you're you know, sometimes that's just the scenario, that's just the nature of the booths like you.

I keep trying to remind him that.

It's like, oh, really kind of what's her point?

I think the last guy that we had was only here for like two years.

Yeah, entry levels tend to not stay longer than an opportunity to move up.

Yeah, but they also have to show that interesting and eagerness.

That was stupid.

But uh at the same time, like it's I got moved up.

But not necessarily moved up.

My salary went quite a bit for six years.

So I think I went from like zero.

There's some pretty good ones in here, and then after that it was like the last eight years I didn't continue to increase all.

Brian suffered a few last years.

He was working under a stingy.

A stingy bugger.

Well, you can't give you a experience of stinginess.

I did as an intern.

I think he learned some lessons once.

Mike goes living on poverty checks and all the little box.

Yeah, so when I was an intern, I was basically handling the zoning type position because she was on maternity leave.

And I was getting paid eight dollars an hour.

That was my only source of income at the time because I had to quit my job to work the intern position that I had.

My wife um had just had a baby.

And so she wasn't working.

And we were living on suit loans.

Supplementing our income.

Um yeah.

And I asked, because I was doing extra work to help the department of flow.

And George gave me a hundred dollar bonus.

And I said I appreciate it.

But I was expecting more when I when I was seeking a bonus.

And he looked at me like I was being the most ungrateful little beggar that he'd ever come across that how dare I go back and he's like, don't you realize that this doesn't happen in government?

But the amount and the need that I have right now, I can't keep working this internship.

Right.

And supporting my family.

And he just did not seem to care.

Um and then I was applying for jobs at that point, anywhere I could.

And most places wouldn't even get me back from interview because I had graduated yet.

I saw it another semester to go.

And um, and then he put in his retirement and James got promoted, and that created a whole series of promotions.

Brian got promoted that year.

And so then you would get the planner.

And then uh I got a job offer because I was actively applying because I didn't know if anything was a shirt at the bed or not.

Um and Provo um had an offer for me, and I didn't want to take it, but I had to financially.

And then James was like, Don't take, don't accept the job yet.

Because he had just I got the job offer, and like that day James got promoted.

So he said, full line.

And then he came and said, I worked it out.

We're gonna just try to promote you straight from an intern to a planner without having to do an interview process.

So I said, great.

So I took this job instead of the proper one.

I'm so glad I did.

Better off.

It was life life-changing.

We talked counting.

Well, I did not want to live down there.

No.

Neither do I, but now I am.

When did you move in your house?

You've been there for 20.

21.

20 years.

I'm thinking about how different my career would have ended up.

Had I taken a totally different trajectory.

I hate this camera.

Where's that?

I think up here in the front.

How to see how bald you are?

There we go.

Okay, now you're out of the camera.

Now you're off all cameras.

You and Mike, you're joining the club.

That's why I don't know.

It wasn't until I saw myself on video that I realized how bad it was getting back here.

And this year it started to, it's thinning out all the way on top now.

And it wasn't until I saw myself in here that I realized how thin it was getting on top.

I don't know what it is with these cameras, but it's like they see through your soul.

And your hairline.

You're one of those guys.

I don't know.

I'll see what happens.

You don't have any signs of like not yet.

Well, it's recent a little bit here.

You're you're gonna be one of the lucky ones, I guess the whole area.

You might have some, but you're not gonna go bald.

I'm gonna do that.

Early 20s, I mean it started to kind of receive, you know.

I don't think it's turned buzz in it until my 30s 40 maybe.

What about you, Melissa?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Melissa.

Me going bald.

She's gonna come out.

I probably didn't.

Let's put my father didn't go bald.

Women can lose their hair too, though.

Sadly for the bigger.

Yeah, I'm not no, my hair's I'm not gonna get a good dad.

Yeah.

My uh my mom has gotten really thin.

But but from my dad's side, I did get the the white, you know, the you know, just a lot of gray hair white.

She shows up right.

Yeah, maybe.

So you gotta leave early.

Yeah.

And James doesn't want to start nothing back.

He doesn't want to start until he's back.

Where does where does Grant live now?

Grant now?

Uh Salt Lake.

He lives in Salt Lake.

Um I don't know if he's employed currently.

Brett reminds me very much of somebody here.

Like uh he's almost like the uh Oh, the face painter guy from Seinfeld.

Grant does?

Yeah.

Face paint.

Faith, okay.

You know what I'm talking about?

The guy that like pulls his shirt off in the hockey games and just wear the dogs.

It's very military.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, okay.

Uh he he's the what's his name, the actor's name.

He plays the tech.

Yes.

Um the cartoon.

Uh well, he's like a superhero.

He has a great he also does the voice of uh oh, in uh the the Prince of Egypt.

Right.

Well, he's had a lot of voiceover stuff, but he's also um in um Hercules.

And then Jen goes to the Japanese.

So she's not in by the time Jen has to unless Patrick Warburton.

Yep.

Sometimes the Prince's new group, that's what's the new group, that's yeah.

He's like some guys chronic.

Yeah, this guy.

We're just watching that episode.

I think we can't see it.

It's maybe somebody else too, but he's just kind of got that.

Well, I'm curious to see what you guys think of uh our next one.

Carolyn Lisevich.

Is there something about her?

Well, she have three arms.

She was my top candidate.

No.

Now I'm biased.

You shouldn't be biased by my opinion.

I want to ask each of them, how do you feel about tattoos?

Just you know, I feel like some kind of homage to the spiritual uh homage.

Yeah.

I like her staff.

We should have asked you about polygamous.

And that in that thing.

How do you feel about polygamists?

In their backyard.

How do you feel about people wanting to be naked in their backyard in general?

Is that a proponent of that?

No.

No, but his light, I think they're all naked.

And massage their but everybody's got a big thing.

I bet they're all everybody wants their privacy so such that they should be naked in their backyard and have no and you know.

This is how you get privacy that you go outside naked in your backyard.

Nobody will look in your backyard.

Unless they like what they see.

Come on.

I'm just saying, unless it's like they're not gonna like this.

I'll put that out there right now.

Most people who want to be naked in their backyard are not are not the people that you want to see in the house.

I don't know.

I was talking to my my brother, I think.

They went to France and they ended up with a topless beach.

They didn't know that it was gonna be happening, but like it's not what you think it is.

It's like the most awkward people that should not be topless.

Or topless.

Over the confident people.

It's just old Europeans.

They don't care.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're talking about a group of people that don't care what other people think.

Honey.

Honey was his name.

There you go.

Yeah.

My daughter just got active friends last night.

I don't think they had any new beaches on there.

You got new beaches.

Looks like she's at her.

Oh, yes.

Caroline.

Do you want I think James wants to weigh?

Oh, I can go back.

Where's James at?

Clint just said he doesn't care about the people thinks.

That's right.

I don't care what James thinks.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

My father always said to the oldest.

Like yourself.

What we've got this down here.

How are you doing?

So we'll cue up your presentation slides.

You'll have this little quick and then you can advance through, and um I'll introduce you to our panelists here that we'll be helping out with our morning guys.

How are you?

So we've got I'll let you guys introduce yourselves.

My name's Melissa Anderson.

Um my uh title or role is the zoning administrator.

Yes, Mr.

Melissa.

I'm Clint Spencer.

Um I'm in development development services manager.

So I've only been here for three months, so it's kind of nice being from this side versus that side.

Yeah.

Uh Jake Warner, long-range planager.

Yes, meet your Jake.

Jake's been here for meeting.

Eight years, isn't that right?

And Melissa's been here for just over four years.

So we've got a wide range.

Yeah.

To wait.

Oh, okay.

Well, if you'd like to sit, you're welcome to sit.

You don't need to stand.

Okay, perfect.

Thanks.

And awkwardly stand there for a few minutes.

I could do like a dance if you guys want.

We can make that part of the interview.

Let's not do that.

How good are your dancing skills?

The other two have not been so far.

Have you been on dancing with stars?

No.

I'm glad you brought up dancing.

What other tricks do you have?

Stupid human tricks.

Well, I can speak Spanish fluently, and I'm learning Danish currently.

Danish Danish is a very, very hard language.

That would be hard.

What was the impetus behind learning her?

Internship or study abroad.

Where were you at?

I was in Copenhagen.

Oh, okay.

Um for four months.

Nice.

And I should have been studying Danish while I was there, but I, you know.

Having too much fun?

Yeah.

Didn't quite think of that.

And then I came back to the other.

Everyone speaks English over there, is what I understand too.

Fluently.

Yeah.

Everybody.

I didn't need a single person who I couldn't communicate with.

We went to Amsterdam a couple of years ago, and I felt like the resident idiot because I know I know English and Portuguese, but still like we talked to a girl.

She's like 19, 20 years old.

She knew I mean she Danish, English, German, French, and then she was learning Spanish or something like that.

I'm like.

I know English.

I don't think.

I speak well.

I speak cutter.

I speak better than that.

Yeah, that's it's a different different environment, I think, in Europe.

They're they are very proficient.

And maybe it's because there's so many cultures in such close proximity.

Yeah.

That they learn all these other languages.

Just because everyone's so close.

Yep.

But yeah.

It's interesting.

We went to Greece a few years back.

And it was surprising how many people spoke English.

And we did.

Like I learned a little bit of Greek before I went.

But yeah, it and we then end up really needing to have any extra skills and other languages.

Most of the time.

We were able to communicate with it.

But pretty much everybody that we ran into.

Because they all spoke English.

Or at least enough English that we could get by.

Yeah, like conversational.

Conversationally they were they were okay.

We're in Greece, did you visit?

We went um to a couple of uh islands.

Um we landed in Athens and then we went to uh Sithnos.

And uh trying to remember the other was it?

Or yeah.

Yeah.

I'm drawn a blank.

No, it's okay.

But um we only we can spend enough time in Athens.

We basically had a day because as soon as we landed, we were on a boat going to uh one of the islands.

Yeah, and then after that, um when we came back, we basically had one day to spend in Athens.

And we you know saw the sites as much as much as we could.

But I wish we had another day or two at least to take in a little bit more of the sites of uh and some of those areas.

I wish I got degrees, but it just in the four months I was traveling like every other weekend.

Because you were hitting some of those other I went to Paris and Amsterdam, I went to Sweden, it's like a 45 minute train to Sweden.

Yeah, well, everything's so close and a train ride away.

And my cheapest flight, I think I spent like $30 on flight.

Oh wow.

On like a round trip.

Yeah, although you're in like you know, the little airplane you don't get away with any amenities.

Right, it's bare bone, but functional.

Yeah, just a picture so you nice and sign.

Alright.

Alright.

Alright, we're getting the gang back together here, so we'll get started.

Um welcome.

Thank you for coming and being part of this application process and interview process.

Um, as it's as uh you probably saw it's a little different than a lot of interviews that you may have been part of before.

And um we're gonna begin with uh a non-traditional part, which is doing the mock uh planning commission presentation that we'll have you do and presenting your staff report and analysis.

Uh following that, we're gonna have a few follow-up questions, not necessarily on the the uh presentation, but on the um uh some additional interview questions about your work style, your professional goals, etc.

So without further ado, we'll get this planning commission meeting underway.

So, welcome everyone to tonight's planning commission meeting.

Uh we've got one item on the agenda for today.

Uh Carolyn Lisevich, uh planner of the community development department will be presenting a home occupation request for uh Wade uh tree removal service.

Carol, go ahead.

Good morning, Commissioner.

For the record, my name is Caroline Westovich representing community development.

Today I'm presenting case number C UP 01012023-0000 1, a request for category 2 home occupation permit for wage treatment service located at 9470 South Cobalt Circle.

Staff recommends approval for this request, subject to 11 specific conditions.

These conditions are intentionally designed to bring this long-standing site into full regulatory compliance while actively protecting the residential character and safety of the surrounding neighborhood.

To be entirely clear on what is and what is not being requested this morning, the applicant is seeking a permit for two components.

First, an indoor administrative office used strictly for billing and scheduling, which will generate zero customer visits to home.

Second, overnight yard storage for three commercial service trucks and one industrial wood chipper.

I want to emphasize that no active tree work, log splitting, or wood processing of any kind will ever take place on site.

This is strictly a parking and a stri an administrative request.

The subject property is a standard quarter-acre lot located in R-1-8 single family residential zone, situated right at the bulb of the cul de sac.

The most critical physical feature of the site is a unique dual gate configuration.

This property features a front gate facing cobalt circle and a rear gate that opens directly into a public alleyway.

This distinct layout provides us with a unique opportunity for precise traffic control, allowing us to completely separate commercial vehicle movements from standard residential traffic patterns.

For context, this business has operated out of this location since 1985.

This is 40 years.

It originally held a valid indoor office license, but over the decades, heavy equipment was stored outside without explicit city approval.

Recently, when the business transitioned from the father to the son, the license lapsed, which prompted a formal neighbor complaint.

Rather than fighting the code violation, the son has acted in good faith.

He proactively applied for this category two permit to legalize and regulate the use, and he immediately cleaned out the adjacent public alley at the city's request.

This application is our mechanism to establish strict boundaries that never existed under the previous generation.

As a reminder, this application requires a category two planning commission review rather than an automatic over-the-counter staff approval for three specific reasons.

First, the applicant is storing three commercial vehicles on site instead of the single vehicle allowed by right.

Second, the bucket truck exceeds standard residential weight limits.

And third, the request involves active outdoor storage of commercial equipment.

Because of these impacts, formal commission scrutiny and public input are legally triggered.

On May 6th, we held a community meeting attended by five local residents.

I want to emphasize the staff takes their feedback incredibly seriously and their concerns are not being brushed over.

Residents voiced urgent anxieties regarding safety, specifically the danger of commercial bucket trucks backing up into the tight cul-de-sac where children play.

They also noticed a history of early morning crew noise, employees staging at the house, traffic congestion, and a historical accumulation of unsightly wood debris in the yard.

These are valid quality of life concerns.

Rather than ignoring them, staff use this feedback as a checklist to draft our conditions of approval.

We are using this permit to directly correct these historical pain points.

Staff evaluate this application against all 15 city code standards.

While standard items like utilities are entirely unaffected, our primary analysis centered squarely on safety, traffic circulation, and neighborhood peace.

To directly resolve primary traffic and safety concerns raised by the neighbors, our conditions of approval mandate a strict one-way pull-through traffic system.

Vehicles are required to enter through the front gate of Cobalt Circle, drive straight through the property, and exit directly out the rear alleyway.

Because they exit through the alley, these heavy trucks are completely prohibited from backing into the cul-de-sac, entirely eliminating the blind spot hazards that worried the local families.

Furthermore, to address the traffic congestion and noise complaints, these conditions explicitly ban any employees staging or work crews from gathering at or around the house in the morning.

Public streets will remain entirely clear.

This site is strictly a parking lot of parking location for the vehicles when they are not in use.

Beyond traffic, our evaluation of the remaining operational standards focuses on a single core principle.

Ensuring the business does not disrupt the daily residential life.

First, there's an absolute ban on any on-site operations.

No active tree processing, woodcutting, or chipping is allowed.

The chipper is stored here, but is never operated, and a 60-day hard paving requirement will eliminate the dust.

Finally, to preserve the home's residential character, we have mandated a total ban on commercial signage, utility alterations, and client visits.

In short, when the trucks are parked at the gates and the gates are closed, this property is required to look and function exactly like a standard single family home.

We recognize that commercial bucket trucks and wood chippers introduce an industrial aesthetic into a quiet residential zone.

To mitigate this visual impact, our conditions require that both the front and rear gates feature 100% visual opacity and remain closed at all times, except during the immediate movement of vehicles.

If the trucks are not actively entering or exiting the property, they must be completely screened and invisible to the public.

The property must remain the appearance of a clean standard residential home from the street.

Staff recommends approval subject to 11 conditions displayed on the screen, which we have grouped logically to ensure strict oversight.

We place a hard cap of three trucks and one chipper, limit operating hours from 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

Monday through Friday, 8 a.m.

to 5 p.m.

on Saturday, and restrict the business to just one outside employee to entirely prevent morning crew staging or loitering.

We mandate the front in alley-out one-way drive pattern, ban all outdoor log or wood chip storage to prevent debris accumulation, and require the vehicle parking area to be hard paved within 60 days to mitigate dust and mud.

The permit is tied strictly to the sun's personal residency and requires automatic staff reviews at the six-month and annual marks.

Most importantly, to ensure long-term accountability, we've added a strict enforcement mechanism under section 21-33-06.

Ongoing validation of this permit is explicitly contingent upon neighborhood compatibility and community vigilance.

Because the city relies on adjacent residents to act as localized eyes and ears on the ground.

Any single verified neighborhood complaint regarding a breach of these conditions will bypass legal standard lengthy grace period code enforcement timelines.

A verified violation of any condition listed above will result in an immediate suspension of the business license and will automatically trigger a public modification or revocation hearing before this planning commission.

In conclusion, staff supports this request.

Oh not sure why the screen looks like that, sorry.

Staff supports this request because it respects 40 years of local business history while implementing a strict regulatory framework that never existed before.

The applicant has acted in good faith, and our conditions directly resolve the neighbors' concerns regarding backing hazards, work crews, and property maintenance.

I provided the standard motion of approval on the slide for your consideration.

And I'm now open to any questions you or the commissioners may have.

Thank you.

Okay.

Do we have any questions for Caroline?

Thank you.

Well done.

You're recommending that a condition that the three vehicles be allowed.

Does that comply with the zoning requirements and do they have sufficient space to store those three vehicles?

Thank you for your question.

It does comply and based on the map that I was looking at of the current con the current site, there is room for the three cars to be parked on the site.

With the conditions that the gates are closed at all times and the neighborhood continues to operate as a single residential neighborhood.

Is there a chance that that access could ever go away with the property owner ever restrict access to that back alley area?

And then what would the if you're gonna have commercial trucks moving through that area?

What's the what's the surface there now and would there be potentials for tracking out onto the street?

That's a good question.

Right now that that alleyway is public access, and the condition of the alley is dirt, and um under one of the conditions, the homeowner would have to submit their plans to pave that area so that the dirt and the dust and the mud don't get tracked onto the street.

Melissa, did you have any questions?

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Well, um I think uh I think that handles that.

Should we move forward with the motion and without any other discussion?

Well, we won't worry about a motion today.

We'll end that uh mock PC uh presentation.

But good job.

Uh thank you for uh a very good presentation, thorough, um, and uh we appreciate your efforts on on doing so.

Uh good job.

Thank you guys, thanks for your time.

Um so in reference to that uh preparation of reviewing and your approach to reviewing the CUP application, that staff report and that presentation that you did.

What parts felt most comfor comfortable to you?

What parts were more challenging, and did you have all the information that you needed?

That's a great question.

Um through this process, I started out by reviewing all the documents that were given to me.

And it was important for me to really understand the case that I was working with because it was my job to make a recommendation.

So in order to make a recommendation, I have to know the case really well.

Um the most challenging part for me was trying to decide if this case was real or not.

I spent a lot of time trying to find in the documents um any evidence that this case was real, and when I'd gone onto Google Maps and placed the person in the neighborhood to try to see the house, I wasn't able to.

They must have put a restriction, a privacy restriction on the house.

Um that might have been the hardest part is really understanding the neighborhood and whether or not the the gates would be feasible and the entering one way, exiting the other way would be feasible.

Um but with the information that I was given, I made my you know, I made my best judgment, and um I guess I'll say another challenging aspect was my um lack of experience in this.

I've never done a mock commission meeting.

I have never presented a case like this, and so um I gave it my best shot, and um and I think in the future it's really important to um you know take the time to review the case and maybe get some outside opinions on what they think because when you're presenting to a commission, everybody has their own opinion, the people you know um who are directly involved, and then people who are indirectly involved.

Everyone has their opinions on the case, and I think it would have been um in the future, maybe I would get more opinions from people about what they think about the case before coming with my conclusion.

Good.

Okay, next question.

Um, and we have a number of them that are not related necessarily to this specific case, and so they're more general interview questions, a lot of scenario things.

So uh to begin, um, imagine you reviewed and approved a building permit, and later it was discovered that a setback requirement had been missing, missed during your review after construction had begun.

So, how would you respond to that situation and what steps would you take to prevent similar issues in the future?

Yeah, in that case, it seems like there would be um a bit of oversight.

It might have been a mistake.

Um, but just more thorough um investigation on all the zoning codes and you know the laws about setbacks.

Um that would be a pretty big mistake if construction had already begun, and there's no way to revoke the or start over or amend once construction began.

Um but I would come together with my team and figure out where the missing piece was and what we missed and how we can um amend an issue like that in the future and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Okay, okay.

Do you have an experience you could tell us about where you had to explain a difficult regulation or decision to a frustrated applicant or resident?

That's a good question.

Um during my internship at Price Land Development Group that I did two years ago, I sat in on a commission meeting, and I wasn't the one who was presenting, but um I first hand witnessed um how somebody would present um a complicated um you know decision to a resident who was very upset.

In this case, there was a housing development proposed in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and one of the residents had a concern about lack of water and whether or not the city should go ahead with this housing development, knowing that Santa Fe is a very water fragile city.

And this resident was very upset.

She had lived there for many years, and her concerns were very valid.

And the planner listened to her and validate her concerns.

There's another concern, which is there's no housing in Santa Fe.

And the planner was able to sort of meet the woman in the middle and explain how water is an issue, but so is lack of housing.

And it was important in this case for the planner to listen and be understanding and receptive to what the resident had to say.

But also stand behind their decision to move forward with the with the housing development.

Yeah.

I hope that answers your question.

Yep.

So when working on a team, what qualities do you believe makes someone especially effective and reliable?

It's a great question.

Reliability is really important, especially when you're working on a big team, and it's important for everybody to play their role.

I think another quality that would be important would be the eagerness to learn and the excitement towards the job.

And these are qualities that I think I possess.

And I understand where in my experience I might lack, but I'm very open to under to learn more and to be receptive to your guys' feedback and really learn as much as I can on this job.

Okay.

So another question is what type of feedback have you received that has helped you grow professionally, and what did you change as a result?

That's a great question.

My job was to be a student and to learn as much as I could.

And part of this was not just taking classes in urban ecology, but expanding my knowledge of as many things as I could.

And so I took classes, some pretty fun ones, some pretty random ones, but really to gain experience on as much as I could and take advantage of the fact that I was at a university that offered so much.

Some feedback, some professional feedback that I got was to network and to join professional networks such as APA, and attend as many planning meetings as I could and join as many planning clubs as I could in order to expand my professional network, and that's something that I've been doing and implementing that sort of feedback so that I can learn as much as I can and also meet as many people as I possibly can.

If you were in a situation where you had multiple projects with competing deadlines and not enough time to complete everything, how would you prioritize your work?

I would say in this case, I would take the tasks that would be the hardest for me and do those first.

You want to do the hardest tasks first so that the rest of the day can fall in place.

And so I would get those tasks done first.

And I think it would be important to communicate if I didn't have enough time to finish something, communicate that to the team and let them know where I'm at and if there's anybody with a little bit of extra time to help me sort of meet those deadlines.

Okay.

Good.

So planning is a very broad, has potential.

You can touch a lot of different things with planning, right?

What aspects of planning interest you the most?

Are you more involved in like short-term planning or long range planning?

Or what kinds of things are you interested in?

It's a good question.

I've always been interested in bikeable infrastructure and walkability.

I was raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is known as one of the most dangerous cities for bikers and pedestrians.

And this sort of lack of infrastructure made me really interested in going into planning.

And this got me interested in active transportation.

And these were you know two pillars of city planning that I got to witness in Copenhagen as well.

Placemaking is another thing that I think would be very interesting, and building character around public space and fostering public life to improve a community.

And all of these aspects tend to fall more towards short range planning with a vision of long range but more short-term solutions.

From one extreme to the other, then Copenhagen.

Yeah, I mean, one could argue they're very, very opposite.

Yeah.

Both in scenery and infrastructure, it sounds like.

I think so.

Nice job.

Thank you.

I appreciate it, well, Carolyn, do you do you have any questions for us that you want to ask?

I do.

I have a few.

Fire away.

Um I'm wondering in this position how you delegate tasks to people who have passions for certain things, but there's a need for another sort of project.

I'm wondering how you decide who gets what task and how that's divided amongst the team.

Yeah.

Good question.

So each of us have our particular areas of responsibility.

Jake in handling long-range planning, Clint and handling current uh development projects like subdivision site plans, and then Melissa handles our administrative zoning code functions.

And then underneath that we've got a couple of planners that also help in administering that.

So we each of us have our areas.

And then if you're able to complete those tasks, that's when if there's other areas that you want to, you know, do a special project or help with long-range planning or help in some of these other areas, that's where we'd be looking for assistance.

We do work collaboratively together.

Um, and if someone's overloaded, we look for someone else to help pick up the slack and and and carry the weight and distribute that as much as we can.

But if there are opportunities that you want to seek out and do extra uh things or do something that may be outside of your purview, those those would be opportunities that we can discuss and explore, but the priority being those primary tasks, and then uh if if there are uh areas of time that or uh extra time that you do have to explore other areas and help with other areas of expertise that uh we'd be looking for you to do that and give you opportunities to expand on that.

That sounds great.

Thanks for that.

Um I'm wondering what sort of projects you guys are struggling with right now, like where you're finding um challenges or what sort of projects are taking longer than expected.

Good question.

Uh let's see, how would I answer that?

Well approach that.

I think there's a lot of development projects that we've got going on that you know it's interesting where we don't necessarily control all of the outcomes because it's a two-way street with any development that's being proposed or current review projects.

So some of those are out of our control.

Um but we do try to expedite those reviews as much as possible.

And working collaboratively with the other departments, sometimes we run into issues with internal departments that try to somehow gum up the works.

I think we mentioned that to you in our last interview.

That's going to involve a lot of staff time.

Even though we have a consultant, they're going to be relying on us as planning staff to provide direction and input as to what that final product will end up being.

They're doing a lot of the legwork for us, but it's still gonna be a heavy lift on all of us to help out and make sure that that gets carried out.

Thanks for a lot.

Cool.

I like that question.

Jake, do you want to start?

Yeah, I haven't given that much thought of you know the some of the bigger projects that have been more challenging looking back on are some of the more rewarding ones.

Uh in there in the moment when you're fighting over things.

Um it's not enjoyable, but um, you know, the effort when it pays off is rewarding.

Um, for me when I started, we did uh a master plan for the stadium block around the RSL stadium.

Um was a project that looked um well, it definitely had some challenges, but uh most rewarding in the end, and then the uh general plan uh was a big lift, and uh again with its challenges, but uh definitely not perfect, but uh satisfied with the results.

Um yeah, I mean I'd it's a great question, and I'd like to give it some more thought and think back on it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, it's on this whole thing.

I wish I had some more to give you, and I know there's some in my memory bank that you know will be fun to kind of think about, but yeah, I I'll jump on that.

I'd like to do that.

I've never seen him so flustered, that's great.

Um it's crazy.

Um a lot of my career has been in current planning.

Um, and I love to work on a project where I can take something that they started with an idea and help evolve it and improve it and make it better than what they started with.

I find a lot of satisfaction in that, and that's um in any current planning project that I've worked on.

I've always tried to help the applicant realize something a little bit better and push them towards something that might achieve a better outcome that works for both them and the city.

Um so I've worked on it on several projects like that, and um one in particular would be um the East Village area that we um have developed around the track station.

The outcome of that may be not the ideal and the best layout.

There were certain constraints that we had to work around, but I'm very overall happy with how that uh project is has worked out and seeing that come out of the ground is very satisfying as as a planner to say that I have my stamp in and my involvement in that and I and I can see that tan tangibly and visibly um every day that I'm trying to drive by or walk by that and ride the train in that area.

So that's deeply satisfying as a planner to see that.

That's good to hear.

I'll probably echo the same thing.

I mean, I've I've been in Sandy for three months as all.

Um, but I've been involved in planning.

I've I've kind of jumped around.

I was in ORM for a little bit.

Uh I've worked in Ogden and Hermann now here.

And I will say starting out in Sandy, I think you'd be off on a good foot.

Um certainly one of the better places I've been in terms of how planning is looked at and respected.

And but I would echo a lot of what Mike has said.

Um planning can be a lot can be very challenging, it can be kind of frustrating, especially when people um you're gonna find good developers and bad developers.

And um the code doesn't give you you can only ask as much as a code will give you, right?

Yeah.

And sometimes the code doesn't give you the betterments that you want to see in the project, but when you can work collaboratively with somebody that kind of catches the vision of what you're you know, like what a betterment would be, you know, like why don't you you know change the science keeping area or move this sidewalk or front these buildings to look like this, or you know, whatever kind of improvement you can make, and when they actually say that's a good idea, I'm gonna implement that, even though the code doesn't require them or force them to do that.

That's uh that's a good day.

So that's a real good day.

Yeah.

And uh that's what I've enjoyed most about my experience in planning.

That's good to hear.

Um projects uh in Sandy.

Um working on uh updating the land development code is a big project, and we do have consultants to help us.

Um I do enjoy that.

The challenge for me is just that that's in addition to all the existing workloads, so um for filling backfilling positions that we're interviewing you you for now is um needed and appreciated.

Um past project, I think one that I was surprised at how it turned out uh because I think it was really good.

It relates to short-term rentals, which is one of the duties of this role is managing that is that the council uh city council had uh directed staff to update the short-term rental code.

There was a variety of specific issues, but so we went to to do that.

They also directed us, they wanted us to have some kind of a training involved, and it involved uh a variety of staff within our department, but also outside of our department.

So there's a lot of collaboration we create.

Our communications department created a uh a video for training, and then we had uh a little uh test created for initial applicants to make sure they just understand the rules about operating short-term rental.

So um in the end, I was surprised and and impressive for it, just very happy thinking, you know, this little training thing is very good.

And the video that Comps department helped us with is excellent.

And uh I saw I thought the outcome was good.

The collaboration between departments and interdepartment uh was really good.

So uh that's an example of I think uh a good outcome.

And that was directed by council.

We had and also it it directed us to fund some shop software to help manage short-term rentals and the bad players that are operating and not really getting the license and not operating outside tools.

I think what made that video so successful is that excellent acting by Brian in that in that video.

I'll have to watch that video.

You'll be blown away.

Thank you for sharing all your um all your experience and your it sounds like there's a lot of great projects that you guys are working on, and I'm happy to hear from you guys that you're satisfied.

So yeah, those were all my questions.

Great.

Well, I um appreciate the time that you've taken um to meet with us today just to kind of remind uh about our process.

Uh we're wrapping up our second round of interviews today.

Um we hope to have a decision uh later uh this week by Friday.

Um so you'll be hearing from us soon as to the outcome of that.

Um but I really do appreciate your your time and efforts and and uh you did really well today.

So thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thanks, guys.

Good job.

Um but I really do appreciate your your time and efforts and and uh you did really well today so thank you appreciate it thanks guys thank you both thank you thank you thank you so much can you close the door and close it yes just in case are we going to conference room yeah do you want to let's just go in another room to discuss