How do we get on the email?

I have an online phone at one point.

And then I've got a district or something.

Do you have Instagram?

Me?

No.

Oh, either do I, so never mind.

I don't have social media, so I don't either.

I usually can do it.

I know if I clarify if you can't continue to the web, it'll go at one time.

Yeah, and then it goes to the I tried the Facebook stock too.

Oh, are you good?

I had I got Facebook for all my kids running a bitch, so I could do the I don't have that either.

What is it called?

Messenger or whatever.

Hey Grant.

Hi.

I think so.

Thank you, of course.

Morning.

Hey, good morning.

Pleasure to teach you guys yet.

Yeah.

Hi, my name is Grant.

Nice to meet you.

Spencer.

Nice to meet you.

You know me.

Mike?

Yes, sir.

Good to see you again.

Jake Warner.

Nice to meet you, Jake.

Do you guys like a print of copy of this as well?

I did provide them.

I have that.

Print a copy.

The corrected one, I hope.

I did.

Yes, I saw the both emails.

Sorry about that.

No, no, you're good.

I appreciate the clarity.

No problem.

That never happens in real life.

No, definitely not.

Definitely not.

You want me to go ahead and stand here?

Well, just to give you kind of yeah, that's where we'll have you stand and uh remain standing probably for a little bit of time here.

So hopefully your knees don't buckle.

Um thanks for coming back for this second round of interviews.

Of course.

Um so this one's a little bit uh unique in that we're gonna do a little mock uh planning commission panel and uh give you a chance to uh introduce and uh kind of illustrate your analysis of this request that's coming for that planning commission.

Um and then we're gonna follow up after that with a few additional interview questions that that uh we'll kind of go around and take turns asking those.

Um let's see, there is a um clicker there uh on the dies that will allow you to advance your slides.

Perfect.

Um yeah, we'll get going.

Do you have any questions for us before we get started?

I don't think so.

Okay, well, very good.

Well, welcome to uh today's planning commission.

We have just one item on today's agenda, and that is for the way tree service.

Um we have Grant Hancock that we'll be presenting on this item.

Go ahead, Brant.

Alright, so my name is Grant Hancock with community development department, and uh this is a cup application 0101-2023-00001 for way tree service at 9470 South Cobalt Circle, and that's the R18 zone in community eight.

So this application for a conditional use permit uh is for residential business.

That's a category two.

Uh on this slide you can see the uh property context.

Um the property is on a cold sack with uh alley access behind the uh the lot.

Uh that's part of the uh residence application for the business.

So it's uh F7, F10, and F8 uh that trigger a category two condition for this uh business.

And that's for uh the outdoor activities of the business, uh large vehicles.

Recording in progress that will likely exceed uh 24 feet in length for his uh tree service and flammable material storage on the site.

Um so the staff core standard Utah code uh of course is that uh the commission shall approve uh whenever possible.

Uh believe that all of these uh conditions are excuse me, these uh these situations can be uh accommodated.

So taking in mind the uh residents' concerns about uh activities on this site and this application.

Uh there were there were concerns voiced about uh backing heavy equipment in your children, uh, if the the company's vehicles running back into the cul-de-sac where the children play.

Uh this is mitigated in my condition seven, uh very rear egress uh gate, and that is something that the resident also included in the application.

Uh so he's got this uh rear alley that he can uh pull vehicles through and exit instead of backing into the street.

Another concern was traffic in and out and on-street parking.

My aerial imagery that I pulled does show that there's kind of like no zen uh parking at the residence.

Uh so this is some uh a resident complaint that I can see uh you know where they're coming from.

And this is also mitigated in conditions six and four.

Uh so there'd be no employees or clients uh parking at the residence and no on-street parking uh for the business as well.

And the last uh resident concern was about outdoor woodpile storage.

Um the res, or excuse me, yes, uh the residence application uh suggests that this cleanup has already been conducted.

Um so this would be easy verification, but also uh just written is in condition number five of the no no outdoor storage uh of commercial uh property.

There we go.

Just taking a note.

So staff recommendation is to approve with conditions.

That's based on two findings and the nine conditions in the staff report.

So the findings are that the use is allowed as a category two home occupation under the SEC section 211.5 with PC approval and conditions.

Uh the conditions of approval substantially mitigate the reasonably anticipated death from effects consistent with Utah Code 109A5072A.

Uh the recommended motion is that uh the planning commissioner approve a conditional use permit for South Wade or excuse me, S Wade to operate weight reservice as a category two home occupation at 9470 South Cobalt Circle based on the two bindings that's subject to the nine conditions outlined in the staff report.

So I am ready to answer the commission's uh questions uh about this application.

All right, thank you, uh Grant.

Uh are there any questions that we can ask of our planner here?

I have one.

It's my understanding that the owner of the business has to live in the pro live in the property.

Um it wasn't clear who currently owns the business, who's uh occupying the business.

Do we know that?

Um I do not know that.

The the application suggests this business been operating for 45 years, uh, and it looks like the son uh of the original business owner is moving into the house uh and taking over the business.

Uh so that would be my understanding.

Uh I've just got a question on this rear access that you're referring to.

Um, how would that uh it's not a paved access at all, it's not improved.

Um how you know during weather tracking or a couple questions on the improvement of that access and also um the ownership of that parcel who owns it, do they have rights to egress ingress over that property?

Uh that's a great question.

Uh first off for the inclement weather portion of that.

Uh there was not pavement further into the alley, but the uh the curb at the street is uh paved, there's a there's a cut there.

Um so the like the likelihood of tracking significant debris onto the roadway is is mitigated by that.

Um the ownership of the parcel behind is something that I actually don't know.

Um off the top of my head, I'd have to go back and pull the ownership of that property.

Um but the application suggests that the business owner uh has access to that alley.

Any questions?

Well, if there was any question about occupancy for home occupation, that could be added as a condition of approval.

That could be added as a condition of approval, which remember my just hit the button.

Push.

That could be added as a condition of approval.

Um if needed, I believe it's a requirement of the code already, but it could be explicitly stated if there was any confusion about that requirement.

Sure.

Condition one uh addresses you know elements that are already in the code just to uh they kind of mitigate any any side concerns uh of that nature, but I'd be happy to revise and add an explicit condition about occupancy.

Yeah, or that the commission could add that to the motion.

Anyway, that's all I have.

Great.

Well, thank you, Grant.

Um I don't think there's any further questions.

Are we ready to entertain a motion?

No, we're not gonna actually do a motion, but we'll conclude um that portion of it because you don't want to watch us deliberate and uh I mean I actually would and debate that.

I am curious how the process works.

I think my understanding is that the next thing would be the applicant come up and speak.

In a typical scenario, yes, we would have the applicant uh present on their on their behalf and answer any questions of the planning commission, uh take public comment.

Um and obviously we don't have a full uh uh lobby, though we did it think about having James and Brian be the uh agitators of the uh public to come and speak on the item.

But um barring going full um uh uh mock uh scenario here, I thought you did a good job and presenting and and providing that analysis.

So good job.

Um as part of this uh process and and preparing uh the CUP application, preparing your staff report and and presenting what parts of that felt most comfortable comfortable to you, and what parts were more challenging?

Um the most challenging part of it was just uh my unfamiliarity generally with you know Sandy City code.

Um so just uh trying to speak confidently to my findings, uh, you know, there's a bit of a challenge uh in that.

You know, I assume that there are some things that you're reading in that staff report that you know seem a little eliminary perhaps.

Uh but the easy part for me is just gathering information and and you know, kind of synthesizing that, going into the code and finding what I needed to do was relatively easy.

I've got a lot of experience with research and just gathering data and synthesizing that and acting on it is something I'm very uh familiar with.

Okay.

Was there anything that you wish that you had but didn't uh were were not provided in the application materials?

Uh parcel ownership information, I guess.

But there is, of course, you know, as uh that question was asked about who owns or who has uh you know say over that alley, uh I realize that probably should have gone to uh parcel ownership viewer and just kind of figure out uh that I I just made an assumption that I shouldn't have made that that the property, there's kind of some outbuildings back there has the same owner, um, but that's assumption I shouldn't have made.

That's right.

Yeah, good.

Well so the next question.

Yeah.

Okay, very good.

So I think the rest of the questions are more scenario engineering, not necessarily uh about the specific application.

So the question is imagine you reviewed and approved a building permit, and later it was discovered that a setback requirement had been missed during your review after construction had begun.

So how would you respond to that situation and what steps would you take to help prevent similar issues in the future?

Thank you.

Um in terms of response, if construction's already started, I think I would just take it to uh either whoever my direct supervisor is or to Mike and acknowledge that mistake was made.

Um and then the second part would be you know how I mitigate it in the future.

Um I think that there would just be you know a note that I make and leave on my desk that you know says look at make sure I look at this relevant part of the code about setbacks and don't overlook that.

I think uh in the original interview I was talking to Mike about how uh you know one of the things that it seems overly simple, but it is a great way to keep yourself organized, is just have things written.

Um so I I'm a fan of having uh post-its or other little notes uh to make sure that there's uh I don't uh repeat a mistake.

Thank you.

Tell us about a time when you had uh had to explain a difficult regulation or decision to a frustrated applicant or resident.

Uh so there's actually a a number of those situations uh that I'm familiar with, not an applicant uh specifically, um, but uh as part of my education, uh the master's degree program for planning, there was a lot of community engagement across a number of courses.

Um and it was interesting to see, you know, as soon as, and I didn't represent my myself as part of the city, uh, but as soon as I start talking about anything planning related, um, you know, there was a fair amount of uh almost animosity, like right off the bat, you know, just from uh a number of things, like you know, why is my trash not being picked up as often as it is?

So it's uh about getting through you know that initial uh kind of pushback and animosity and kind of diffusing the situation.

And I've got a lot of experience of uh of kind of de-escalating, um, and I think that starts with just meeting them on their level, acknowledging uh their concern uh and then just you know calmly uh speaking through uh the code, why it's relevant and you know how we can uh set conditions that they mitigate their concerns.

All right.

Uh so uh when working on a team, what qualities do you believe make somebody especially effective and reliable?

them on their level, acknowledging uh their concern uh and then just you know calmly uh speaking through uh the code why it's relevant and you know how we can um set conditions that that mitigate their concerns all right uh so uh when working on a team what qualities do you believe make somebody especially effective and reliable I think um in any kind of team that you work on uh just understanding the value of the other people on the team uh is the number one thing there and not just saddle yourself off and work individually uh just leaning on the specific experience of other members of the team uh to uh not uh overlook or undervalue uh the value that they you know bring uh with their specific experience so uh if there's parts of this that I was you know as I would get started in this role hopefully if there were parts of the code that I'm less familiar with or it's just something that I'm having a little bit more trouble understanding uh the application of I would understand that that's a good place to go talk to a member of the team that is more familiar with uh setbacks or uh property ownership or how we can mitigate uh you know an unpaved alley for the weather uh things like that so that's where I see the value of the team as kind of that brainstorming and just uh you know understanding who's got what experience and leaning on that okay next question is what type of feedback have you received that has helped you grow professionally and what what did you change as a result?

Yeah that's a great question though one of the things that I've been I've given been given feedback on uh is just uh to slow down typically my mind works pretty quickly um and I like to kind of process things quickly and get through a task but sometimes that just leads to overlooking a detail so uh feedback uh going back to when I was uh an admin uh non-commissioned officer in the Marine Corps uh there were some times that I was kind of uh what we would call the Marines pencil whipping uh some paperwork uh and that just means you know just moving to it moving through it too quickly uh so feedback was just like we we realize that you can move quickly and 99% of the time that that that's really great and we appreciate it but that one percent of the time that you missed something is still impactful so just take your time maybe slow down 25% make sure that you're catching everything on that form.

So that was feedback that I appreciated any kind of feedback that I get I always see as an opportunity for growth and it's just personal development so I never take it you know negatively like I'm never thinking like oh you just attacked me or that's just rude that you would even say that I just see it as an opportunity to to improve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

If you had multiple projects uh that you were dealing with um with competing deadlines and not enough time to complete everything how would you prioritize your work I would prioritize my work with what's most impactful first and the things that are coming up the soonest and then if I know that there's something that's important that I'm unlikely to be able to get to that's when I would approach the team and say right now that I've got too much on my plate I'm a little behind I think I might overlook this or might not get the attention it deserves can you help me out and pick up some of that that work and probably give them the thing that's the furthest away so if you had an opportunity to work that into his workflow but it definitely wouldn't uh allow something to just to pass through with minimum effort or not get the attention and respect it deserves so planning is a pretty broad there's a lot of different aspects to planning you probably notice that in your studies what uh what types of or what aspects of planning interest you the most like short-term planning versus long-term planning or so conceptually um I found myself uh interested in almost anything I came across you know I just love the idea of being a part of shaping how the city operates and how it grows so it actually did become a problem in the in my program because I'm I take a course to try to specialize and then I realize each one I'd like oh I could go down this direction so it's uh trying to pick a specific uh lane to stay in was difficult uh and I actually really appreciate that I didn't choose end up choosing a specialty because I I kind of dipped my toes into every part of planning um and and it was valuable just to learn um that that I am interested in all those things so it ended up being a value because I can see that I was able to to cast a a broad net of uh you know applying for jobs that touch various parts of planning and knowing that that would be fulfilling still and interesting to me but to try to give you more direct no common sense answer um I think any kind of I mean permitting is not the most exciting thing in the world obviously I actually did enjoy doing this I'm sure eventually it would get old but the larger picture of of working on zoning and just trying to figure out how to intensify uh land use in particular in a city that's built out like Sandy I think you guys have as far as I can tell very limited additional space to to build out so now you guys are turning your attention to figuring out how you can maximize the space that you do have and that process and figure out where that can be done how to do it respectfully for the city's residents and you know meet the the goals and vision of the city that's exciting work to me.

So now you guys are turning your attention to figuring out how you can maximize the space that you do have and that process and figure out where that can be done, how to do it respectfully uh for the city's residents and you know meet the the goals and vision of the city.

Uh that's exciting work to me.

Thank you.

Go for it, James.

So Ryan, um from the Texas uh the I think Austin you said.

That's right, earlier.

Do you plan on returning there eventually?

What's your what's your what's your long-term plans and how much if we were to hire you, what type of uh time commitment or thing like that could you would you see you staying here?

Sure.

I appreciate the question.

Can everybody hear me back here still when I'm talking this way?

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh the plan is to stay here.

Um I came to Utah because of how much I love it here.

Um, like I said in the original interview.

I don't know if you remember, but I had an opportunity to go to school in a lot of different places, including some that are better on paper than University of Utah was.

Um, but I chose to come here because I love it here.

And the plan is to put down roots here and stay.

Uh it's a pretty cheap uh flight back home, and I like to go visit, uh, but I don't really have an interest in in moving back to Texas.

Um, I've got my partner here that I've been with for some time now, and our plan is to get married, settle down and start family.

So uh the goal would be to stay where I'm hired as long as I can, as long as that makes sense, as long as I have opportunities to grow, that's where I like to be.

Um I'd like to settle in the community that I work in.

So eventually the goal would be to buy a home where I work.

Uh so I'm actually a part of the community, and I'm not planning from afar.

Uh I think that gives contextual understanding and just some some ownership of the work.

Uh so that would be cool.

Brian, did you have any questions that you wanted to add?

I'm just uh citizen one by good.

Well, uh thank you, Grant.

Um do you have any questions for us?

I do.

Uh so as far as like year one in the role, in fact I could break it down into like six months and a year, uh, what are you looking for out of me?

You know, what kind of progression would you like to see out of me?

Um, and what would I be?

Would my tasks be any different a year from now is when I start uh generally speaking, yeah.

That's kind of a broad question.

So I'll let you run with it.

Okay.

Uh so in that first six months, we're it's that onboarding period of getting you um acclimated uh both to the the work life balance and and um our processes, our procedures, learning our code.

Um the fun thing that you'll have to deal with is learn a code that's gonna get replaced here in about a year and a half.

Right.

Um but there's some value in and and learning what works and what doesn't work in that.

Um but within that first year we hope to get you up to speed on all of the tasks and and the responsibilities that you'll be given um from the outset, like I had mentioned in the previous interview.

Uh this is an entry-level position that does handle a lot of current planning and a lot of permitting um uh responsibilities, but we'll be uh given tasks as as you show aptitude is as um you show uh you know if you're able to take on additional load and helping out in long-range planning and helping out in code development and helping out in other tasks and responsibilities that we have across the board.

Um you kind of will be uh somewhat of a uh utility player of being able to assist um in in accomplishing the overall task that we have as a department.

We try to share the workload as best we can.

Um and if someone does get overloaded, uh we want someone to help pick up and carry that load.

But um we won't be expecting you to take on everything at all at once as you're learning in, but as you are showing aptitude and and able to progress and take on additional roles and responsibilities, more trust will be given and and that's kind of how we see that uh progressing.

Um but um the more that you're able to raise your hand and volunteer and and uh want to take on certain things, then we'll give you those opportunities as well.

That's awesome.

Appreciate the answer, and that's uh absolutely what I would do.

Um I had a question uh as well about reports like this.

Um you're being polite potentially when I finish there.

How much did that stand out uh from what staff would usually do when they're when they're right here?

Well, anybody want to comment that?

Well, what about the the staff report?

What would stand out?

Uh what stood out as being different as I presented uh than it would if there was a planner with more experience doing what I just did.

Oh yeah.

Um, I think you did a pretty good job.

Yeah.

I think you did a pretty good job.

I mean you did a great job of researching things.

Um I mean, there's always things that we overlook.

I think that's part of planning is just part of any professional problem you just learn along the way, and you pick up on things you missed on or mistakes you've made.

And you pick up on things you missed on or mistakes you've made.

And I mean that doesn't stop at day one or day two or even year three or year 20, you know.

We're still making mistakes and trying to get make things better.

But I think it was a pretty well put together staff report.

I appreciate that.

Uh what's the process look like?

Would it be something?

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Well yeah, were you asking about the presentation or the staff report of both?

Oh both, really.

Yeah, thank you.

I thought uh you did a good job of trying to mimic our the standards.

Like if you had looked at an example staff report or had looked online where all the staff reports are presented.

Um it seemed like you were trying to follow that, not trying to create something brand new.

I like the specificity of citing code.

And thus is, you know, that what initiates the CP2 and mitigation as you're seeing you know, criteria for conditions.

Um in that sense, I think Todd, particularly for this situation where you're kind of trying to drop in cold and deal with it.

I thought you did a very good job.

Thanks so much.

So I will admit that initially uh I probably went a little above and beyond, and then I kind of caught myself, you know, like you guys don't want me to come in here and try to reinvent the wheel on how to do these staff reports.

So you want me to come in and be able to pick up the work uh in the structure uh that you're already doing it.

Uh so I try to get myself back into the middle of that lane, and I'm glad to hear that I you know did a passable job at that.

Yeah, well, we try to have consistency for our decision makers and the public.

And if we do want to make changes, we're open to that, but we want to be consistent.

Um we have a formatting and things like that, but um anyway, yeah.

Is this process of uh creating a staff report, doing this research, uh the findings, recommendation, is that generally the purview of one planner, or is it a few people involved in it?

Is there any kind of gate before I would get to this point with this report in hand uh with somebody looking over it, or is this pretty individual?

No, uh so we divide um the different types uh by application type.

Um and so this uh like conditional uses would be your purview that you would be reviewing, but we don't do anything in the silo.

Um so everything that you do and and and before we release it to the public would be reviewed by me as the director.

Um and it also gets reviewed by James as a the community development director, so that it's been vetted and and and checked.

We also discuss and have discussions on any item that we're taking to planning commission to vet through any additional conditions, issues like property ownership would have been raised uh prior to even writing your report.

Those issues would have been discussed as a whole.

So we worked collaboratively as a team, uh, then individually your task then go right, draft, implement, and then you'll get comments back from both me and James.

Um any fine points that we want to get on that, but you're not uh coming in just all by yourself.

Okay.

Definitely not, yes.

That's great.

And then one last question, I guess, uh, on this report uh process.

Uh is there ever concern that you're stepping out of line like legally?

I mean, is anyone talk to the city attorney on some of this stuff?

I can just see that there's legal uh exposure, I'm sure, on some of these decision markets.

Department is always out of line.

It's kind of our MO.

I've never had a decision that we've made be legally questioned ever.

In fact, that's that's kind of the name of the game.

Yeah, I've got an attorney that comes to all of our meetings.

Okay.

So yeah.

So normally we'd have Darien Alcorn, our city attorney that would be here advising the planning commission on any decisions that get made.

Obviously, if we have an issue that we're concerned about, or someone challenges us on a particular interpretation or application of a code.

Proactively good or we do have legal team that can advise us, and Darien's assigned uh to handle all land use uh related issues, and so she's a land use uh expert and knows the state code and our code and can provide legal analysis for us if we ever get in a pinch.

That's right.

But yeah, we we often have legal issues that come up.

You had something you want to say?

No?

Oh, okay.

Any other comment that you had?

Not really.

But then if we do get into a bind, we do have legal assistance available to us.

So do you use those staff reports that you generated in the past as kind of precedence?

Uh do you try to build upon them?

Um getting nods.

Okay.

Yeah.

Uh one of the ones I looked at was uh I think it's called like storm storm fab works.

Um I don't know if you remember that one.

Storm fab works.

Oh, was that a home occupation?

It was.

Okay.

Uh so I used it as a precedent for this, and I thought it was pretty analogous.

Uh so uh yeah, I was just curious if if that's something that you guys do is kind of pull similar ones to to work from.

Yeah, I I think every good planner does not reinvent the wheel.

We build on the shoulder of giants and uh build on experience of past, and um I think that's one of the things that you will learn to do as as you grow in your career is looking at what uh has been done before and improve upon it.

If we had time to reinvent the wheel it would, but we just don't have time.

Sure.

Practically no, we we don't.

Uh I think that's all my questions.

Okay.

Anything else that you guys had or comments?

Um I wasn't uh involved in the first round, and so I was just curious about the previous work background you have, and then you wanted to go back to school, and just what precipitated that, or your interest why you chose to do the planning.

Sure, kind of the life process that's a lot of people.

Yes, uh so I I was in the Marines uh for a number of years and uh got out and knew I wanted to you know uh go to school further my education and kind of set myself up for a career.

Um initially I thought that that was going to be teaching.

Um so I did my undergrad in history uh and I got a minor in environmental science.

Um and you know, from there I I just thought I would get a teaching job.

But along the way in my undergrad, as I was talking in the first interview, there were some experiences uh that I ran into.

First of all, I tried to go out on uh a car in Raleigh, North Carolina for about a year and a half, uh, and that was uh illuminating on how transit works uh in a lot of our cities.

Uh Raleigh's a bit of a sprawling city.

I love it.

I don't want to speak too poorly of it.

Um but it a 15 minute drive uh to work ended up taking an hour and a half most days uh on the bus.

Uh and that was just kind of crazy and just how poorly they they interface with each other.

They often at the central hub downtown would not wait for transfers, like so they had no awareness why the other buses were there.

Man, this is a mess.

Uh and I understand why these buses are empty.

Like we're spending the city's spending a fortune on this, but it's not working, and why?

Right.

Uh so that was one of the experiences that kind of got my brain thinking about how cities work and why it's it's the way it is.

Um and then I uh another experience was just having to live so far uh from work in school and just how inefficient that was uh that the city was building a lot of high density housing, you know, way out on the periphery outside the belt road, the outer belt road in Raleigh is where you know I can afford rent.

Uh so I was thinking just how much I dislike that.

Why are we not creating density in a core?

Uh such such an inefficient use of space and infrastructure.

Uh so that was another thing that got the wheels turning, and the last thing was that uh I was hit head on uh by a drunk driver um on my way to work early on on a morning and uh sphere accident uh that pushed me to uh to try to drive less again.

Um and so I was trying to cycle uh and and sometimes take the bus to work, but mostly cycle because I had such a bad experience with the bus uh previously, and I just realized how deficient even that infrastructure was uh and I was pushed right back into a car.

So it was it was a number of these things that kind of uh opened my eyes to what planning looks like and how the conditions that exist uh became that way.

Um and so I just kind of went down a rabbit hole uh truly on uh reading strong towns and uh finding some some YouTube channels that discuss planning topics, and I just fell in love with it.

Uh I knew I wanted to do it and try to make a difference that way.

I'd already wrapped my mind around not making much money teaching.

Um it wasn't a concern about low salaries.

Um so I knew that.

What are you trying to say?

Lower to expect um, you know, so I have that I have that drive for public service just generally.

Yeah, you know, I sort of picked up my country uh for years and did that uh because I I just feel strongly about serving the community.

Uh my country first, but you know, I kind of want to narrow that down and have an impact on my community.

So that's a long answer to your question there.

Thank you.

Okay, anything else from anyone?

Even you two back there.

Hecklers.

There's more kind of a should I say should I say none or all?

I don't know.

That's a tricky question.

Maybe Mike, since he's the.

I mean, uh, you know, that's part of the experience uh from the military.

And and then when I was in high school, uh, I applied for the Naval Academy and ended up you know going for an interview at my congressman's office, and he had a panel of generals sitting at a table that I walked into, and they've just had these full you know, shoulders, you know, their the whole chest is full of metals, and and they've got the stars on their shoulder, and I was just like a 17-year-old thinking what have I just stepped into here.

We're not intimidating at all.

Not a comparison, yeah.

So those bars you know have been set, and and what built my confidence there was uh that I did receive my congressman's uh nomination for the naval academy, and so going into that room, seeing all the people that were waiting for their turn as well, and making it to the top of that is something that you know kind of uh put me on a good foot early on.

Uh so yeah, I I guess I don't get too intimidated uh by these situations, but I will uh admit that this is probably the most nervous I've been for interviews for jobs just because I'm invested in this and I know I really want this role, so I find myself with just a little bit more nerves than typical.

Yeah, thanks for the same.

It's a little unusual, but practical.

So thank you.

Thank you.

That answer your question.

I have one last question for you.

Um we have a lot of personalities in our staff, and I'm just curious how do you work with differing uh opinions and personalities and and people types.

Sure, so uh I don't know, it's yeah, it's a careful, it's uh it's a a fraught road to go down, but uh just politically speaking and and just the kind of different uh directions people can lean.

Um I feel like politics are so invasive in in personalities and just in worldview at this point, uh so uh divisive.

Um but growing up in rural Texas uh with a very conservative, very religious family, um, and then kind of charting my own course from there.

Uh, you know, I I've come to my own beliefs and opinions and understandings, but I still find myself uh fully respecting and loving the all the members of my family that that pretty uh strongly disagree with me on a number of things at this point.

Um but I feel like just that generally and kind of growing and maturing through that uh has let me see the value in everybody's opinions.

You know, even if I disagree with somebody, uh I can still respect who they are as a person uh and their value um you know, regardless of uh of that disagreement.

And you handle sarcastic people.

Oh, of course.

Uh yeah, I could be a sarcastic person as well.

He's talking about Jane.

That's kind of a low so yeah.

I don't know if that's the question you're asking specifically, but I think that that's probably the most uh you know potentially contentious issue between people in a workplace.

Uh and and I don't have any issue with that.

And not even politics, just different ways, you know, different strokes for different folks, right?

People have ever lived their own life the way that they want to, and just kind of how you roll it that way.

I mean, there's one thing that makes this team right there really strong.

Is that this planning team that Mike has up here?

Is they can get together and they can hast things out and they can argue about things, they can, but at the end of the day, I mean they've they're still a great team together, but they've got together and really collaborated and make something were in the while they're doing that, they're not always on the, you know, they're not always everybody's not coming with the same thing.

Some may have a different opinion now, but they all respect and hand each other's opinion.

They go out of there with uh usually a decision and they're back the next day just fine.

Yeah, of course, uh, and there's value to that, right?

You wouldn't want everyone up here to think about things uh the same way and have the same opinions about everything.

Uh you'd certainly be missing something.

Uh so I think uh being able to, it sounds like the culture is to be able to speak up uh and raise those.

You're right.

That's right.

So that sounds great.

Okay.

Well, thank you for handling that uh so well and uh taking the time to um thoughtfully write your staff report and make this presentation today.

So I I could tell um you took some time and I appreciate that.

And uh you did really well.

We appreciate getting to know you a little bit and coming back down.

Um just for as far as next steps go.

We hope to have uh all of these interviews wrapped up today for the second round and hope to have a decision soon, no later than Friday.

Perfect.

So um we'll be in touch uh with you as well if there's anything further we need from you, and uh expect to hear from us soon.

Sounds great.

Thanks so much for coming down.

It's a pleasure to meet you all.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

The hecklers in the back of the room.

That's what you guys are like those two Muppet guys.

Guys from the Muppets.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the old guys in the back.

Yeah.

Oh man.

They're starting to resemble them, aren't they?

So that thing I ran across, I was trying to send to you, it was a it was a llama with a three of the crooked teeth.

It was real.

And speaking, but all of a sudden you're sitting there looking at it.