All right.

Good morning, everybody.

It's nine a.m.

on Monday, November third, and I'm calling to order the regular city commission meeting.

And um want to remind everybody to put their cell phones on silent and call on our city auditor and clerk to do the invocation.

Please stand.

Heavenly Father, we affirm our faith in thee.

We seek your divine strength, wisdom, and guidance in the deliberations that affect the lives of each of the citizens of our community.

In that name we pray, Amen.

All right.

And Commissioner Ann Coch, if you would do the pledge.

I pledge allegations to the high of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it says one nation under God with a remote justice for all.

Okay.

Miss Griggs, are there any changes to the order of the day?

Um actually, yes, Mayor, I have a quite a few here, and she'll be patient with me.

All right.

Please remove agenda consent number one, agenda item number six point five, approval rate authorized the mayor and city audit clerk to execute the cooperative purchasing agreement between genuine parts company, DBA Napa, through master agreement per the request of interim city manager bullet.

Please add under Consent Agenda number one.

Sorry, could you go back to what which agenda item number six point five.

Okay.

I thought you said six one.

I didn't read it didn't read the same.

All right, thank you.

No problem.

Um, the next um item, please add on the consent number agenda item six point twelve, approval rate of the twenty twenty-five affordable housing advisory committee recommendations per the request of interim city manager bullet.

Please add under unfinished business agenda item number nine point one discussion rate, city manager search update per the request of city auditor and clerk griggs.

Please add under new business agenda item number twelve point five, approval ray, resilient SRQ letters for mayor's signature per the request of interim city manager bullet, and lastly, please remove under new business agenda item number twelve point four direction ray request for the city commission to consider providing um owners consent to allow historic preservation board to hold public hearing regarding local designation of the paying park auditorium per the request of interim city manager bullet, and that is all I have right now.

Oh, I'm sorry, I do need to make another announcement.

Um, this isn't anything regarding the um anything that's on agenda today, but I have to make this announcement.

Um resolution number 25 R three three five six.

This was advertised for a public hearing and it was removed by staff and will not be heard today.

When it comes back, it will be re-advertised, and that was regarding the right-of-way permit fees.

This was an item that was advertised legally, but it got pulled ahead of time.

So I just need to make that announcement.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

Um, is there um a motion to approve the changes to the order of the second?

Okay.

Uh Vice Mayor moved approval of changes to the order of the day.

Commissioner Batti second if you'll vote for commissioners.

Is that your vote?

Yes, yes.

All right, motion passes unanimously.

Um I also need a motion on the uh proposed agenda schedule.

So moved.

Second.

All right, Commissioner Batty moved uh approval of the proposed agenda schedule.

Uh Commission or Vice Mayor Trice seconded.

You'll vote, Commissioners.

And is that your vote?

Okay.

All right.

Passes unanimously.

Okay.

Um next, we have, if you'll join me out front, we have uh a one proclamation today.

All right, come on down.

Good morning.

And so we can make sure everybody at home can see you.

Yes.

Okay.

Whereas the Susan Terry Foundation was established in 2024 to honor the legacy of Susan Terry, a trailblazing advocate whose work transformed care for individuals living with HIV and AIDS.

And whereas Susan Terry played a key role in founding one of the nation's first comprehensive HIV AIDS clinics, now known as Cannes Community Health, providing inclusive, dignified care.

And whereas the Susan Terry Foundation continues this mission by supporting initiatives that empower people affected by HIV to live healthy lives free from stigma while addressing critical needs such as mental health care, housing, transportation, and substance abuse treatment.

And whereas through education, strategic grant making, and community collaboration, the Susan Terry Foundation advances understanding, compassion, and equity for those impacted by HIV.

Now therefore, the City Commission of the City of Sarasota, Florida, and on behalf of the citizens of our community, takes great pride in recognizing November 2nd, 2025 as the Susan Terry Foundation Day.

So if you will please like identify yourselves and uh you know your connection with Susan Terry Foundation.

Sure.

I'm Ray Carson, I'm executive director of the Susan Terry Foundation.

I'm Hilary Dunson, I'm development director for the Susan Terry Foundation.

I'm John Alcevedo, and I'm the Vice President of Government and Civic Affairs for Cannes Community Health.

And I will say things uh something about Susan Terry, which I did have the pleasure of working with her.

Um for the past 24 years, I've been with Cannes Community Health, and it was because of her that I continue to work at Cannes, making the impacts in our communities and every location in which we currently service.

Susan, exactly the way the proclamation was.

She was a trailblazer.

She wanted a medical home for those that were afflicted with HIV or impacted in some way or another.

And so I am honored and I'm sure that she is elated looking down upon us, knowing that we are honoring her legacy, just as she has left a legacy in her son, which I continue to uh talk with him periodically.

Um he is happy that his mother has left a legacy here in Sarasota, and um everyone is recognizing her for the impact that she made in this community.

Thank you.

Thank you all, Commissioners.

Thank you for what you are doing and continue to do.

Thank you for your contribution to our community.

Thank you for what you're doing.

Thank you for having me.

All right, if we'll put you guys in the center and um a couple of us a stand so we can uh get a picture with everyone.

Thank you all.

Thank you so much.

I'm confused.

I would expect to see that at Liz's desk.

Pass it down.

All right, next up is uh item three, citizens' input concerning city topics, and I'll ask the city auditor and clerk to uh read the pledge of public conduct.

Thank you, Mayor.

We may disagree, but we will be respectful to one another.

We will direct all comments to issues, we will not engage in personal attacks.

Okay, all right.

Um when I call you up, you'll have three minutes to speak, and please uh state your name before you speak and whether you're a city resident.

And I've got uh more than five, so we'll start with the first five.

John Bordeaux.

Karen Hicks.

Celine O'Connor.

And uh Jim Jim Lample.

That's fine.

All right.

Mr.

Simon.

Yes.

Uh good morning.

Thank you for having me.

John Simon, a resident of 1350, Maine.

The Sarasota Municipal Code, Section 20-2, provides it is hereby declared to be the public policy of the city to reduce the ambient noise level in the city as to preserve, promote, and protect the public health, safety and welfare, and the peace and quiet of the inhabitants of the city.

It is the public policy of the city that every person is entitled to ambient sound levels that are not detrimental to life, health, and the enjoyment of his or her property.

It is hereby declared that the making, creation, or maintenance of excessive or unreasonable noise within the city affects and is a menace to public health, comfort, convenience, safety, welfare, and the prosperity of the people of the city.

With that in mind, there have been six, maybe nine events in the last 30 days with blasting music, pulse pounding base that has affected 1350 Maine and other buildings in downtown.

Now, as a general matter, I'm not opposed to Fresh Fridays, but Fresh Fridays have loud music, pounding bass, and when taken into account with the other items, it's a cumulative effect is bad.

So on October 3rd, we had Fresh Friday right in front of our building.

October 17, 18, 19 was Rocktoberfest in Hamill Park, pulse pounding music, huge base.

Some of these events have DJs instead of live bands, and live bands have pulse pounding music and a huge base.

The DJs crank up the base and make it even worse.

Interestingly, 1025, the Humane Society had an event in five points, which sounds benign, but they had a DJ with pulse pounding music and a huge base.

I'm sitting in my office in in our building on the Miramar Miramar Point Miramar court side and had the problem.

The Arts and Crafts Show, which was in Hamill Park this weekend on Friday, had a DJ with pulse pounding music and a huge base.

And then we have another Fresh Fridays coming at us next Friday, right in front.

So when you take into account the cumulative effect of all these things, the special events people seem to be handing out these permits without any desire to mitigate the effects on near near neighboring uh condominium people.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Bordeaux.

Good morning.

My name is John Bordeaux.

I'm a full-time downtown resident.

Okay.

This is uh an email I sent to all of you here in the last couple days.

I'll read parts of it.

After enduring two nights of downtown block parties this weekend at 100 decibels until midnight.

I thought I'd resend that email.

It captures the special events criteria that the downtown residents support for approval of the revised special events ordinance.

Did we really need two downtown block parties on the same weekend?

And that was after the recent October fest.

Okay.

I said please read the email below and be sure to scroll down to the graphic.

We hope that the revised special events ordinance includes the criteria listed in the email below.

Is one of these the uh that's the overhead.

Can we see this?

Okay.

Now, this is a graphic of the downtown streets, as you can see, with uh the 31 special events that were approved from the period of July 24 to July 25, and doesn't include the nine that John just mentioned.

Okay.

Really, we we need these number, 31 special events in a one-year period with 36 closed streets.

Closed street nights.

Okay.

What we're hoping for here is for starters, there are simply too many downtown events.

I'm referring to the downtown road closures and late night block parties, not daytime events such as the farmers' markets and art fairs.

Okay, from July 24 to July 25, there were 31 downtown special events covering 36 nights.

What we'd like is event organizers, L.

Melvin Skater Club, et cetera, should be permitted only one special event per year.

There should be no more than one downtown special event per month, including Maine Lemon State and Palm.

All special events should be for only one night and conclude at 10 p.m.

just like Fresh Friday.

All special events that require a street closure or sound permit should be approved by the City Commission, not staff, regardless if the special event is one-off, recurring, or city sponsored.

This is done in other Florida cities.

Excessive sound is a health issue.

The previous the current revised sound revised sound special events ordinance limits the sound to 85 decibels.

We've asked more than once to please engage a sound expert to advise on the maximum sound for the extended special events time frame.

Also, the sound should be included in the sound ordinance, not just the uh special events ordinance.

Here's a good one.

Residents in St.

Armands are notified when a special event application is submitted.

Affected Sarasota downtown residents should be given the same opportunity.

Why doesn't that happen?

Street closures require two-third approval, okay?

Yet condos only get one vote, same as m stores that aren't even open.

So I'm out of time, and I hope that you are able to read the uh email that along with the attachment that I sent to you uh previously.

Thank you.

Ms.

Six.

Okay, that's me.

That's your honor.

Um yes, my name is Karen Hicks, and I live in the city of Sarasota.

Um I'm here in reference to the school zone cameras that they have put up that have been up for approximately well, not quite a year yet.

But Manatee County discontinued having these cameras up in the school zones for citing people for speed.

Uh so they called it a money grabber rather than a safety issue.

Um SVD started in the first week, they got 1,200 tickets.

So if each ticket is 100, and they got in one week 1,020.

That's over 100 grand for one year if you add that up.

That's probably over a couple million dollars that they get.

Um the schools that have the cameras, they have 22 cameras.

And um they have approximately eight schools in the city of Sarasota.

So with 22 cameras, you figure they'd probably put them at each of their eight schools, but no, they did not.

They have three cameras up around South Side elementary school.

Um the schools that they don't have cameras, they have they don't have one at Brookside.

And I can tell you from living in the city and traveling down shade a hundred times a day that kids will go darting out across the street because their parents park everywhere around the school.

So there's no camera there, and the parents apparently are okay with our kids running across the street to come to the car.

So the city is saying that it's a safety issue, and that's why they put the cameras up.

I feel that also what Manatee came up with is it's a money grabber rather than a safety issue.

Um I can tell you from experience, I do not recall accidents that occurred in the school zone.

Uh, a child versus a vehicle.

Um what else do we have here?

Um the money.

The money I called and asked them where does this money go to?

And uh a partial part of this money goes to Manatee County schools, not Sarasota.

They go to Manatee County.

Um, the company that has these cameras, they get a commission off of each citation that a person gets.

It's not a uniform traffic citation.

It's a ticket, like a parking ticket.

So it's not something that they keep track of.

Um we have um I had a question.

So I don't know if anybody can answer it.

Um but I was wondering if this was approved by the traffic advisory board.

So thank you.

And we just like at this point here comments.

We don't do interactions, so that's why I won't get a response.

Um Ms.

O'Connor.

Good morning.

My name is Celine O'Connor.

I'm a Lido Key resident living near Ted Sperling Park.

Yes, this is a county-owned park, however, it does fall within city limits.

I, along with others, have spent years raising concerns about the deteriorating condition of the park and the county-owned park.

The video now playing demonstrates activity in dangerous circumstances in which Sarasota City visitors find themselves when out paddleboarding, kayaking and swimming along the shore, also attempting to enjoy the natural resources along North Lido TED Sperling Reserve.

At the 21st of October County Commissioners meeting, agenda item 28, option A was presented by County Parks Rec Natural Resources, was passed to move forward with a to a public meeting.

It offers a complete ban on motor craft within 30 feet exclusion zone around the entire South Leto Park.

It was by far the preferred options of many, many residents who have been asking for help with this park of the county.

Option A offers a readily enforceable option.

It presents a bright line for easy enforcement by officers and marine police.

I want to thank the Sarasota Police Department who are a huge support to our community on the entirety of South Lido.

Thank you to Commissioner Hearn Koch for representing this commission in liaising and with Commissioner Smith and bringing this challenging issue forward.

The issue I bring to you today is noise.

I realize the city residents have had issues.

I followed along and watched.

However, it has been confirmed that the actual noise ordinance of this city is what is encompassing within the county park.

There are no county ordinance.

Your city ordinance covers the park, despite it being a county park.

Excessive noise from loudspeakers, modified vehicles, jet skis, leisure bochers needs to be addressed.

It has been clarified, as I said, by county officials, Ted Sperney Park North and South falls within this city jurisdiction regarding noise.

I urge you to amend and update the city's noise ordinance.

Please work to bring this forward for the sake of everybody.

Actually, while I'm here, I also want to say thank you for addressing the undergrounding of utility.

It's something that I've also spoken about and is very close to my heart for the last few years.

So I'm very encouraged that that's finally moving forward.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Lample.

Just Jim with Jim Lample, City Resident.

Or J.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, that's quite an impressive uh video.

Um really made their case.

Um they've put a lot of work and time into these things that really matter.

A lot of it's noise, some of it's safety, and some of it's noise and safety.

I've worked with John and John who have worked tirelessly with the um Special Events Committee, and we've met with them.

And what we're proposing is just thoughtful, rational safeguards on noise and safety.

Uh it's not an extreme.

We all live, the three of us live downtown.

We knew that it was going to be an active place.

I've lived there so long when we were desperate for activity downtown.

And now I think like other things, we've gone a little bit too far.

So, like many rights and privileges we have, and we're adults, uh, there have to be some controls on the behavior and the uh the environment downtown.

So I hope that you uh give some thoughtful consideration to some reasonable limits and controls for the for the noise ordinance and for the events ordinance too.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right.

We have uh two more speakers.

Um thank you all.

Martin Hyde and Carl Schaffstall, well, good morning.

I uh obviously as uh Commissioner Batty likes.

I remain Martin Hyde.

You know, this Friday, Mayor Alpett will uh deliver the annual State of the City address.

And uh these things are are generally written in uh rather self-congratulatory terms, touting the achievements of the past twelve months.

And that have been some remarkable achievements this year.

Umprecedented in this city's history.

Uh a few achievements, though, that probably won't make it into Mayor Alpha's speech, include going a whole year without a permanent city manager, indeed, without even interviewing a single candidate, despite hiring two uh recruitment firms and spending over 60,000 tax dollars in the process.

That, though, pales compared to passing a record tax rate increase side by side with an incomplete budget, which is now projected to be an deficit in excess of $2 million.

Sweetheart lease deals costing taxpayers millions in uh in lost revenue.

Highlights on expenses uh include millions on designs for a new performing arts hall, for which headline here, you have no money, and uh millions more on acquiring land for an affordable housing project downtown for which you also don't have the money.

On the uh positive side, in the manner of those uh GECO ads, you did manage to uh spend $900,000 on a single big contract for a fountain outside the city manager's office.

Photos when uh that fountain completed uh are likely to look like a Paris fashion show, considering the clothing allowance paid to the Deputy City Manager to supplement his poultry close to $250,000 salary.

The city car park will be full that day with cars paid for, with car allowances for multiple staff members making over $160,000 a year with lavish benefits.

Notable policy wins, including charging convenience fees for utilities to the poorest in the community, despite claiming to be advocates for the least advantage.

And one can't summarize the highlights of the year without mentioning the thousands spent on a beachfront junket to Delray Beach, hosted in part by a former city manager.

All in all, a remarkable year by any standards of waste and incompetence that is, to rival any Democrat-run city uh in this nation.

Forgive me this so much.

Um, 2026 will be similarly calamitous.

For those who wonder how President Trump won the popular vote uh this time last year, your antics this year are a good example of the type of administration that America voted against.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Schaffstall.

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Carl Schelstall.

I live at 129 Tyler Drive, and I have been a resident for 24 years in the City of Sarasota.

Um I am down here just to uh mention to everyone at the Daisy here that on November 20th uh we uh I am on a Park Record Environmental Advisory Board, and again I have spoke many times about the park district that we did have that was rescinded a couple of years ago.

Um we have a person coming over that is running the uh Boca Raton Beach District, and they are going to have a presentation to us on how to try and set it up.

And again, I would like to see the Commissioners.

I understand you can't talk when you are there or you can't sit together or anything, but at least come and listen to the presentation on how it's formed and how well it has performed over the years.

Um I also would like the attorney, uh city attorney if he could just sit in and listen to this.

Um again, listening to things here at the table.

Uh the next great city that we are and we're going to go.

We need a good parks district.

And uh it will help immensely with funding that when if times go down.

So I would appreciate if anybody could come and listen to the presentation.

And thank you for having me.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

All right.

Just making a note here of I think.

Okay.

Um uh moving on to item 401, approval of the minutes of October 6, 2025.

Somebody want to make a motion or were there any corrections?

Move approval.

I would just like to acknowledge I submitted some non-substantive changes.

All right.

Uh Commissioner Aher and Kotch moved approval of the Commissioner.

Thank you.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Sounded the same.

Commissioner Ulrich moved approval of the uh October 6, 20, 25 minutes.

Commissioner Batti seconded.

All right.

If you'll vote, Commissioners.

Is that your vote?

All right.

Pass is unanimously.

Okay.

Next item is item 5.1.

It's a presentation regarding the 2025 affordable housing advisory committee board report.

And I'm going to ask the Office of Housing and Community Development General Manager.

Cindy M.

Schoff to make the presentation.

Good morning, Cindy.

Good morning, Mayor.

Good morning, Commissioners.

The City of Sarasota receives State Housing Initiatives Partnership SHIP funding annually and is required by State Statute 420.9076 to create an affordable housing advisory committee.

And we commonly call it AHAC.

So the committee's function is to review local housing incentive strategies and make recommendations to the Commission to further affordable housing.

For 2025, Vice Chair of our AHAC Committee, John Thaxton is here to review the committee's recommendations and discuss the board report.

Okay.

Mr.

Thaxton, why don't you come on up then?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Okay.

Members of the Commission.

Staff.

For the record, my name is John Thaxton, and I'm the Vice Chair of the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee.

My day job is Director of Policy and Advocacy for Gulf Coast Community Foundation.

I appeared before you several times as the chair as promised the last time I appeared before you as chairman.

I was not going to do it again.

So this year I'm promising you won't see me sitting here next year doing the same thing that somebody else will be in this position.

But I am honored to be a city representative on the committee.

I'm assuming that Mr.

Brown had a discussion with Mr.

Bullock and told me uh to keep my comments limited this year, as last year evidently I rambled on.

Um so I have five minutes and I just went through 45 seconds of it.

So that's a good thing.

Um as um Ms.

Simshoff reminded you, this committee is a requirement of receiving ship um ship dollars.

The state also requires the committee to consider 11 recommendations, um, and then it affords the committee by statute the right to make other recommendations that are specific to or meet the needs of our community.

And that's the place where the committee has spent the vast majority of their time.

So rather than going through all 12 of them, I'm just going to pick a couple of them to um to highlight.

And the first one has to do with a dedicated funding source.

Um both the city and the county have affordable housing and trust funds that are set up, uh, but neither have a reoccurring uh dedicated um sustainable funding source to keep that trust fund um fluid and active.

And we've seen with the results of the American Rescue Plan Act and the uh CDBGDR monies, how effective having this additional cash can be at profitizing affordable housing construction even for the private development um sector.

So the committee is recommending that the city consider taking a small portion of the property tax increase that happens when a property tax increases on your tax bill and dedicating that to the affordable housing trust fund.

The amount would be up to the city and how the money would be used would be up to this.

So we are affording, we're suggesting that the City Commission maintain um uh great discretion in in the availability and the use of these of these funds.

Um also wanted to uh give kudos to the city for the um use of your infrastructure surtax money.

Um this is something that we're also encouraging the county to do, but the city has been doing it, and we would encourage the continued use of of that money as it is uh well-invested, transparent, and um and effective.

Um I'm also convening a working group outside of the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee to look at how some of these Avalorum tax funds could be used, and so when that working group is done, we will certainly offer to the city some um uh private sector recommendations on the use of those money.

Uh the second thing that I wanted to cover is um it's brought up every year um in the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, and that has to do with monitoring.

Um of the policies and the reason is obvious.

If we have a policy that's working, let's stumble down on it.

If the policy is not working, then we need to look at why it's not working and improve it so that it will become effective.

But if you don't have the monitoring, if you don't have the data, you really can't say for sure if the policy is working.

You can have anecdotal evidence, but we would prefer some empirical evidence that would show the efficacy of these policies.

Um as an example, the city's um voluntary density pro program, um, you are tracking the exact number of units that are being produced there.

And so you can show the effectiveness of that program, but we don't do it for other programs.

How many affordable units are being produced by the accessory dwelling units?

We're not sure.

We know how many of them are ADUs, but we don't know how many of them are in the affordable um range.

Expedite permitting.

Are we asking the developers if our expedite permitting process is actually working?

Is it saving them money?

Is it encouraging them to come to the city with affordable housing projects?

Yeah.

We could probably do a better j job there.

And of course, the building codes are something else we need to be more mindful of their um effectiveness.

And the last thing in terms of accountability, um, we need to be ever mindful of the new demand for affordable housing units that's created by approving new market rate units.

In your voluntary density program, you're taking care of the units that are being created by the voluntary density part, but you have the density that was afforded before that and the density that was already vested, all of which is creating affordable housing unit demand, and we're just not really coming up with solutions to make sure that those demands are met and that we don't fall further and further behind the curve with regards to this balance of supply and demand.

And then finally, the city and the county, as you know, have separated their affordable housing advisory committee programs.

Um our committee is stayed out of the polic politics and the bureaucracy involved in doing so, and we leave that up to our capable elected officials.

But we do believe that the two committees should continue to meet together.

Um there is a lot of benefit to it.

We share information, it is all one community.

Uh there's talents on on both sides, and everyone brings something to the table.

And there's a lot for the city and the county to mutually gain by having the committees to continue to meet together.

We would still be required to keep individual minutes, individual advertising, um, and all of our votes would be separately done separate, but we did that in the past.

It's no big deal.

Especially no big deal considering the benefit that both the city and the county would get by having these two groups meet, talk, and discuss the solutions of affordable housing together.

And that concludes my report.

Thank you very much.

All right.

Commissioners, any questions?

Is there what?

Is your thing working?

I'm sorry.

It looks like Commissioner Aaron Kotch.

Yeah, yeah.

I just Commissioner Aaron Coach.

Thank you.

I just hadn't had a chance to look at it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh I appreciate uh your presentation um and the information.

I have a couple of questions just for what you were talking about, Mr.

Thaxton.

Um when you talked about the city setting aside a certain percentage of the increase in property taxes for affordable housing trust fund, what is a standard best practices percent?

What does that number look like?

Um I'm not going to answer that question directly.

Um because my experience has taught me in in government that making progress even on the incremental scale is is favorable.

So there are municipalities and counties out there that have uh that are practicing this allocation.

Others use other funding sources as as well, such as the CERTAX that the city is is doing.

But this just provides um more capacity to meet the unmet needs of affordable housing.

So we would suggest start s starting small.

Um we did do an analysis for the county, and it's in the affordable housing advisory.

It's in the affordable housing action plan that I provided to you several months ago.

Um it's a great question, Commissioner, and I will ask the people that have that data to see if we can run some reports and give you some scenarios that would just give you some examples.

But the committee officially left it open because we wanted the city and the county commission to have uh complete discretion.

Thank you.

My other question has to do with you bringing up the point about the increase in population for affordable housing by the added density bonuses and accounting for the new need that creates in actual affordable housing through services and needs.

I'm making my note about the property tax request.

Well, the first thing I think we should we should do is we should talk about it.

And I know that sounds kind of maybe trite, but in reality, we're not talking about it.

I've been in land use for 45 years in Sarasota County at the Venice City, this city, Sarasota County, and Northport.

And typically when we go through these rezone hearings or these comprehensive plan designation increases, we talk about everything but affordable housing.

We talk about traffic, we talk about schools, libraries, and parks, but nobody talks about affordable housing.

So at least during your public hearing, when you're considering an increase in density that is going to bring market rate units that will require, if not demand, an affordable housing workforce to bring this amazing quality of life that we enjoy here in Sarasota.

I mean, these concierge lifestyles, these luxury condominiums, these maintenance-free communities, they do not come without a cost.

And the biggest cost is the private sector providing a workforce, and that workforce works at at or near minimum wage, and they cannot afford to live here.

So by creating these new market rate units, you are in creating an incremental demand for an affordable housing unit, unless you expect them to live 80 miles away and clog up our roads and pollute our air driving here in unreliable cars, taking time away from their family.

So at least when we're considering these land use changes, we should be asking ourselves this question.

Is the approval of this going to improve the affordable housing situation, or is it going to make it worse?

Is it going to exacerbate our demand or is it going to have neutral?

That doesn't mean that that discussion and that decision is the toggle switch for whether or not you approve the development permit, because there's a lot of other considerations in a development permit, which I think we all know.

But at least it puts the the issue on the table and it has us talking about it.

We should be talking about affordable housing with virtually every policy decision we make as a policymaking board, not just when we're talking about affordable housing.

And your chairman or vice chairman of the affordable housing advisory committee is here at the Dais.

And are there tools available to us to address that need, that new need that's being created?

Well, I think they are.

And I mean you've looked at, you've looked at one, which is the voluntary density program.

Um having funding available would also help.

Um but then, of course, another one of the recommendations in the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee report is um mandatory inclusionary zoning, that if you are creating a demand for affordable housing, that somewhere you are either financially compensating for the creation of those units or you're creating those units in situ or off-site as a developer.

Thank you.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for your report, Mr.

Thaxton.

You're welcome, Commissioner.

Um your comments about monitoring have been heard and have been voiced over and over again, frankly.

Um I think that we're doing a pretty good job of monitoring the new affordable units that result from density bonuses.

Um but not so much with other affordable housing initiatives are we monitoring.

The good news is we don't have to reinvent the wheel on this, right?

What are some examples?

Can you tell us how we can help ourselves in creating monitoring programs for other housing initiatives?

And first off, let me be very clear that I'm talking about improvements in monitoring.

Yes.

Not creating monitoring.

Um I forgot.

Thank you.

And it says it right here at the top of my report.

You can see what it says.

Thank Ryan Chapdelane.

I forgot to thank Ryan Chapdelane.

So thank you for reminding me of that.

Ryan is a uh a great resource.

He is at all of our meetings, he's involved in the meetings, and alongside Cindy from the OHCD, we have an amazing staff supporting us.

So we acknowledge that improv that um monitoring is going on across the board.

But when you ask the question, um, for instance, I'll go back to ADUs, the accessory dwelling units.

I'm sorry for the acronym.

But if you ask someone how many of the accessory dwelling units over the last five years that were permitted and created in Sarasota County are in an 80 percent or AMI price range and below, nobody really knows.

And we're never really going to know the exact number because it is very difficult to monitor.

It's very difficult to police, if you would, without extraordinary costs, which we don't want to incur because we need to be putting that money in building affordable housing units, not monitoring.

But I think that there are other jurisdictions and perhaps staff could recommend some ways, for instance, in the expedited permitting that they can demonstrate how the monitoring could be improved with the foresight of how the effectiveness of the policy can be approved.

So sitting here today, I don't have um all of those examples, but I do know that there are best practices available, and I think that your your staff would be able to improve it with the direction from the City Commission.

Thank you.

And um you mentioned uh the value of having the city and the county committees meeting together.

Um would that require action on the part of the City Commission, or you just continue doing what you've been doing?

No, I don't I do think it would require um giving direction to um Mr.

Bullock and his staff to um to f to make to make that happen.

Uh I b you know I believe the county has already taken that.

Um, but it would take some direction, I'm not sure it would have to be, I don't sure how formal it would be, but some direction from both the city and the county commission to um direct staff to have the meetings coordinated.

Um I'd be prepared to make a motion in that regard at this time if it's appropriate, or if we need a motion.

Let's let's finish the questions number one first, Mr.

Bullock.

Go ahead.

What I would recommend along those lines is and I know we have a couple on your agenda today, but maybe the city staff can do some things, but if the city commission requests the county commission to uh provide for some joint meetings of the their respective housing advisory committees, I think that would actually carry a little more weight.

We did go back and forth with the county staff to accomplish this last meeting, but I think with a more formal statement, the two commissions could easily just tell staff to get it done.

Thank you.

I'll move forward with that later then.

Those are my questions.

All right.

Thank you.

Um Vice Mayor Trice.

Thank you.

Um and I want to note that I am the city's representative on the Affordable Housing Action Committee.

Um so much occurred before I joined the committee.

So I've I've got some questions recognizing that this is a requirement by the state.

Um we've got some squishy language.

I've adopted this squishy thing.

Um affordable.

The word affordable housing means so many, so much different things to different people.

Now, my belief is in this instance, because this is SHIP that it's 80 percent AMI or below, or is that correct?

Well, there's certain there's different thresholds that government programs have as as a maximum AMI.

So it it it it varies.

So for your the AHAC committee's recommendations, what AMI So yeah, the the definitions of affordable housing are as you call it here in the city attainable housing.

We go by the term affordable housing because that's a term that's widely used and it is a term adopted by HUD.

And what HUD says is that housing is affordable where it requires no more than 30 percent of household income to either pay rent in utilities or pay the mortgage payment in utilities.

Um I take it one step further.

I say that it's I mean, because if it's just 30 percent, I mean I did the math.

Elon Musk can afford to just spend 25,557 a minute, 25,000 a minute without exceeding the 30 percent threshold.

So basically just having the number doesn't help.

So what I do is I add to it um uh housing is affordable that um requires no more than 30 percent of household income um to attain and maintain the housing that's not provided for in the private market.

Because if the market is doing it, we as elected officials and committee members, we don't need to worry about it.

As a matter of fact, we need to be encouraging the market to do more.

Um and what you look at when you see that continuum of of housing needs in the community, the market can only go so far.

And then the cost of land, materials, and labor creates a zero profit.

So anything south of that is what we look at as affordable housing, because below that is 40 to 50 percent of your population.

Forty percent of Sarasota County's population is in that affordable price range where they cannot afford market rate housing.

So that's a big um a big number to um to crack.

The further down you go into that AMI threshold versus such as 80, uh 180, and 60, the more the greater the subsidy is required to bring that unit into the affordability range.

And that's why people like to play in the 100 to 120 places because you know that's easy, that's that's cherry picking.

But really what we need in this community, we need the 80, we need 100 to 120, but what we really need is 80 percent and below of AMI.

And so if we are going to be offering government subsidy, government preferential treatment in permitting, uh, government treatment in zoning, we really need to be looking um well below 100 percent AMI and hopefully below the 80 percent AMI threshold, and that is best national practices.

Well, I'm I'm gonna ask you a question about need in a moment, but um the other squishy word is market rate.

The perception around here is if we're talking market rate, we're talking super luxury condos.

Um I'm looking at some HUD definitions, and HUD defines what is it, moderate income is the 100 to 120, and middle income is 120 to 165 percent.

I suspect that we don't have as many um units going up for that hundred, you know, that middle income level.

And you know, maybe there's a need there.

If there was something aimed at that market, then people could afford to pay the market rate prices for that market.

But you know, is AHAC even looking at the needs of, say, that 120 to 165 percent population?

Yes and no.

Um we looked at it and um came to the conclusion that that's very close to where the market has been and could be.

But when we looked at the 100 percent and especially the 80 percent and below, um the market hasn't been there in 70 years.

So that's and it's not likely the market's ever going to get back there in our lifetimes at least.

And so um with those under consideration, yes, we did look at 120 and above uh AMI, but came to the conclusion that our work and the greatest need that is not going to be met by the marketplace is going to be below 100 percent AMI with a laser focus below 80 percent.

Okay, so my need question is obviously you've done uh an inventory of what's out there and what is being uh built or planned.

Have you actually looked at the people who live in the county and what their household incomes are to see where are the spikes in the no you know the the need area to see whether or not we're matching that need.

Absolutely, we have.

Um that data was not readily available.

Well, it's I should say the data is like always available, but mining the data and putting it into a format that we can understand as lay people that you know is very difficult.

So the community foundation of Sarasota County, the Barensic Foundation and the Gulf Coast Community Foundation with assistance at the Patterson Foundation commissioned a report from the Florida Housing Coalition.

In that report, you will see exactly the data and information that you're looking for at a county level.

Um actually it's it's mostly at the um what do you what's a district?

The yeah, metropolitan.

May I, thank you, right.

Um, but it'll give you a handle on and it shows the occupations and the projected occupations and their income and the affordability that those predictive jobs will will have.

And of the ten most populated and the fastest growing jobs in Sarasota County, um none pay enough to buy a house in Sarasota County.

Zero.

And that's the median price.

Only two out of the ten are enough to afford a two-bedroom, one-bath apartment in Sarasota County.

And then if you take those numbers and look at the existing uh uh supply deficit, and you add that to the supply deficits that's being projected over the next um ten years, you will see that the county has a need for approximately 15 to 20,000 affordable housing units.

So that's many thousand a year.

Um that's a lot of work that we have in order to j to just catch up and make up, not get ahead really, but just to tread water if if you would.

Um so um we council and we we warn people that things have improved, rents have somewhat stabilized.

Rents have gone down.

Yeah.

Right.

But they've only gone down less than 10 percent or whatever.

You gotta remember that rents went up by 20 to 27 percent four years in a row in our county.

So they over double.

They doubled over a five to six year period.

So going down five or ten percent is not enough to make it affordable to all of these tens of thousands of households that were moved out of the affordable range with the rental increases that we saw over the last five or six years.

So an analogy that I like to use is that um this would be like if if you're in thirty feet, you're drowning in thirty feet of water and someone gives you a five-foot stool to stand on.

You know, you're still 25 feet underwater.

It's not enough to get your head above water to um to make ends meet and avoid paying 50 percent of your household income for housing.

And in Sarasota right now, we have close to 10,000 people paying more than 50 percent of their household income on housing, and that means that they are doing without something, health care for their children, uh, nutritious food for the household, um, utility bills, et cetera, et cetera.

And that's just an unsustainable place for the economics of the of a community to survive or thrive.

Right.

Thank you.

Just one thing I want to add, because this is the city versus the county and the MSA.

Um I looked at the Census Bureau numbers and discovered close to 50 percent of the city's population rent their homes rather than purchase.

And many of them choose to do that.

So in coming up with recommendations and thinking at least for the city, maybe want to flip a switch and think outside the home ownership bubble and think, you know, what can we do to improve things, affordable housing for people who want to rent?

One final thought.

Providing a house at 30 percent and below of household income is the only way that these families are going to be able to accumulate equity in order to buy a home.

This is the new pathway to home ownership is is this um subsidized rental housing that affords families the chance to um um build equity to build capital and ultimately move into homeownership.

Otherwise, without it, they're stuck running for the rest of their lives, as are their children.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner Baptiste.

Uh thank you, Ms.

Mr.

Um Christopher Baxton and uh Mrs.

Imsoff.

One of the things I wanted that talk about and ask, um because I know when I before I came on the uh commission, you know, we always talked about affordable housing in the community or whatever.

And now it's become a relative term, you know, in terms of who can afford what, you know.

Um, we were left with the challenge of trying to create some type of affordable housing through policy.

And always say that, you know, before, say four years ago or five or so, we got no affordable housing from developers.

I mean, we tried to create it or thought that we might with uh changing the um uh units per acre over in the in the overlay district over in uh Rosemary and so on that yielded none.

Right.

And the only housing or affordable housing that we got in this city was uh through the housing authority, or maybe you know, developers like Mark Van Groff or Scott Eller or someone like that that plays in that in that in that realm.

So what it is that we created um and implemented in in the comp plan or whatever.

So what it is that we created um and implemented in in the comp plan or whatever when we before so got zero and whatnot would you say that I mean from my understanding we have like say close to a thousand units coming on online that that uh that is what we've created is kind of working or or what?

To the extent that those um land use changes would have happened in absence of a density bonus program, um it is a huge achievement.

Yes because if those units would have been granted without the mandatory requirement for creating affordable housing units to get those bonus densities, if they would have been approved otherwise you would have just exacerbated the demand even more and more and more.

So now you've created a space where those density bonuses, the percentages are very close to meeting the demands of the affordable housing needs created by those new units.

So it I I wish we could compartmentalize that and do it over all density increases because then we would make really good progress.

But it was the um it was the it was the first move in this county to have a program with those requirements that actually is working.

Yeah because you know just for public consumption, you know Sarasota was recognized at the Florida League of City for what we done with uh um incentives for developers uh and and so on.

And would you and they're also called out in that action plan that I talked about.

Mm-hmm.

And and and you know on that note do you have any type of uh computation or or way to quantify the number of uh developer developments like in the pipeline that say not only have met you know say the the fifteen percent or whatever but have gone uh uh above above it or what have you can you I believe that Ryan Chaplin does keep track of all of that the number that really are coming on because of the density bonuses but to your point the flip side is one of the reasons that we also focus on persons who have eighty percent or below the area median income is because that's where the dearth of units are so before the end of 2025 there will be ninety-six rental units coming on line through blue sky and castle at New Trail Plaza we also have the in April the 10 units for the veterans at Heroes Village so there we're constantly adding housing units but there will always be a need at the lower in in advantage of AMI.

Yeah because you know in looking at the demand in terms of like not just what the AMI was but it was also what what the the market demanded in terms of like what types of units and it seemed like there were there was more of a demand for say single you know like one bedrooms than there were say two three bedrooms am I correct in saying that I can't recall for sure I'm not sure what the report stated.

Okay because I say that is because you know to your point you know um talking about the income levels or whatever you know and constantly trying to keep track of you know the um United Way's Alice report or whatever which you know most people you know that's assets limited income constrained you know um exactly so essentially what we're talking about and what we have a dearth of is it in this community and beyond is the working poor you know and that's a huge issue.

So it's almost as though like I don't know what we do.

You know and then and then this because there's so many you know sort factors that go into this.

You know you got oh yeah we want affordable housing really do you or do you want affordable housing but you don't want it near you all that type of stuff.

You know what I mean so you know that you know I see a a a lot of that and uh I'm I'm trying to understand how we accomplish this you know particularly like with with what it is you're you're talking to us about today and whatnot.

Well for me, personally morally, I think it it is an obligation to provide as you're um characterizing them and the working poor with sustainable and housing that a person, a family can take can take pride in housing with dignity we like to to call it because at least I remind the community I remind myself I'm building a house now in downtown Sarasota and I can see the income level of these individuals that are putting on the roofs and doing this this work, they're not that well paid.

I can look at the quality of life that I enjoy in Sarasota at our amazing restaurants and the services that are provided and 100 percent of that workforce is the working poor.

So these are the individuals that are solely responsible for the remarkable quality of life that we enjoy as Sarasotans.

And depriving them of dignified and affordable sustainable housing for me is a moral issue that um compels me every day to um and has for years to to work on this subject matter.

There is you know we have had an affordable housing crisis in Sarasota County for 40-50 years.

We have that it's just that the number has been small.

It's only been a few hundred people and so nobody except for faith based organizations or philanthropists or foundations paid much attention to it.

But now that that number is into the tens of thousands it's become an economic imperative that we pay attention to it.

So let's not think that this is something new.

This is something that's been with us for decades and decades and decades it's only caught our attention because now it's hitting the pocketbooks of every one of us even the largest business owners and government agencies in Sarasota County cannot afford to pay their employees what it costs for them to live in the community that they work and serve.

Yeah because that and I know that um say during the pandemic when you know rents were going off you know off the roof or whatever and uh and there was no real metric attached to it.

You know we could just raise rent because we wanted to or whatever or let's see what the market would bear and and uh and that's an issue but thank you so very much for your presentation.

I yield ma'am thank you.

All right um Commissioner Ulrich Thank you mayor.

I think this question is for Mr.

Bullock.

In this report and in the advan Affordable Housing advisory committee's uh report to us there are listed at least eleven recommendations that are conceptual and general in concept um what's the next step for us to have discussion of these and refine them to the point where they're actionable by the City Commission.

So we can bring forward as part of our update on your strategic plan we can bring forward an item that talks about this unless you want the Commission wants to do it as a separate agenda item to talk about the recommendations where we are because some of your programs are already in place and and they speak to those and some do not and Mr Thaxon just raised a couple that are yet to be figured out.

So if if you want to have that discussion that would be we we'll just schedule it and bring it forward either as a separate one or incorporate it within the larger it seems to me it should be a single purpose one.

More important than being part of a plan.

Right.

We can bring that forward thank you.

And does that take a direction from the Commission today?

No we'll just agenda.

Thank you.

No one shook their head noch.

Just one last question because it was brought up about this dearth of 80 AMI and below could that be one potential thing the City Commission could do with our density program?

It goes 80, 100, and 120.

And we recently saw in a development where it's broken down a third, a third and a third that at 120 it's basically market rate is is the those units.

They were $65 at 120 less than market rate.

If we wanted to make an impact on that dearth of 80, would it be s worthy of us to have a discussion that we reduce the number that's encouraged at 120 and maybe focus a little bit more on 80 AMI and will that also address that increase in density that you spoke about and having to address that additional need created for affordable housing by that new population.

Would that in essence potentially kill two birds with one stone, even though we don't want to kill any birds, Mr.

Thaxon?

See, let's kill rats.

Okay.

Let's kill two rats with one stone.

I think the answer to your question is yes.

Um, as I mentioned before, the further down you go into that AMI threshold, the more money it's going to cost.

Developers have breaking points on their budgets.

And so you can only go so far before it's the program is just simply not going to work.

So if you have you would need fewer number of units at eighty percent as a requirement of a developer than you would at 120.

But in our opinion, the committee's opinion, in my opinion, and the opinion of many, that's where government really should be focused on.

Because like I said before, the market is not going to go.

The market can't go there.

As much as the market wants to go there, it simply can't.

There's very few developers that are able to pull off this hundred to eighty percent AMI without significant government subsidies to get below the eighty percent, and certainly below sixty percent, such as council is doing.

Council can do it because you're taking advantage of government programs, um uh tax credits, et cetera, and um land deals.

They're putting it all together in order to get there.

Um focused, and our recommendations are strongly focused on the eighty percent and below of AMI, and we do so with the recognition that you're not going to to get the same number of units that you would at 120 or 100.

But if you trade off, if we are giving four and three times the density for market rate units, that gives them the ability to offset that with affordable housing units, which we're categorizing as eighty to a hundred and twenty.

If we wanted to be more impactful, maybe we take that range down a little bit.

They still get triple and quadruple the density, market rate units.

But we asked the requirement to be a little bit at the lower range.

Would that be a tool for us to address address that?

Our committee's recommendation is that is the direction that we should be going.

Thank you.

All right.

Um I don't see any other questions, Commissioners.

Um I think the only action we take here is to receive the um annual update.

Yes.

And I'll have a motion here.

Oh, yes, you have a motion.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then you can move to accept the report of the advocate.

Affordable housing advisory committee.

Oh.

Well, we just had to do that.

Yeah, we had a consensus.

Your other your other motion about putting the you know uh the two.

Oh, hello, you want that one?

Yes.

Gotcha.

Um move to direct the city manager to request the county join in facilitating meetings, joint meetings of the affordable housing advisory committees.

Second.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Ulrich move to um direct the city staff or direct the or ask the county commission to uh facilitate meetings between the affordable housing advisory committees for the city and the county to be able to re meet on a regular basis to discuss joint issues.

Yes.

All right.

And Commissioner Aherncotch second that.

Um, seeing none, if you'll please vote.

Is that your vote?

Yes.

All right.

It passes unanimously.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

Um Commissioners, um, would you like to take a break now or do the consent?

Yes.

Take a break.

Okay.

All right.

It is uh ten fifteen, so we're back at uh ten thirty.

Okay, it's 1030, so we're going to call this uh Monday, uh November third uh City Commission meeting into order again.

And um as we left for break, we were um at the uh uh consent agenda number one.

So we'll uh go with that and see if there are any items to be pulled.

Um yes, Mayor.

Um I have being pulled by Commissioner Ulrich item six point five and six point twelve, which was also asked to be pulled by Commissioner Ahern Cotch and Commissioner Ulrich.

So six point five and six point twelve is all I have.

Six point five is already been taken off the agenda.

I'm sorry.

That's all right.

That's right.

I should have made an I'm not sure.

No, it's like it's hard to keep track of sometimes.

Is all you have.

All right.

Um do six point twelve.

It was added to the change order today.

The six Okay, I was just wondering, isn't that what we just did?

No, because we didn't like do a motion to approve it.

We just accepted the the report.

So that's that's why.

Um before we go into um approval of the agenda, we have um uh someone signed up to speak for items six three and six four.

Um Martin Hyde.

Uh well this this won't take terribly long because it's a fairly specific uh point.

Um this is about the negotiated pay increases with IUPA um for the police, and then subsequently in the second element for the lieutenants.

Um clarify, I made an estimate a couple of months ago that the deficit that would be created by not including staff wages or increases was around two point five million dollars.

It's kind of uncannily accurate, because if you look at your notes, you'll see that eight hundred and fifty thousand is uh the cost for what is a little under thirty percent of your staff.

So it will be that two point five million dollars to the point there.

It took me about thirty seconds to calculate the cost while city staff had nine months and didn't proffer you one at all.

In any event, the issue is not just what you pay uh your staff, but how many staff you have.

The two parts to this.

Um the increase in staff numbers in recent years, and I'm going back several years now, um, has been approximately thirty percent during a period when the city's population has increased by census by under ten percent.

So it could be argued that your problem is as much over staffing uh more than overpaying.

Now, the best way to reduce overhead in this case is by natural attrition.

Not suggesting laying people off.

Um alternative for that obviously would be to increase the tax rate again by three times the uh the rate of uh inflation.

If you took a firmer outlook on staffing levels and expense generally, you'd have a little bit of money to spend on food insecurity, which remains uh an urgent need in this city, which at municipal level is massively underserved as SNAP is suspended.

So no mention here today of how the city is going to help the thousands of residents affected by the suspension of uh SNAP.

One might have hoped that such an urgent issue would be meritorious of comment and action.

Leave a little bit of money, put it in the Mayor's Feed the Hungry program, and maybe do a little better yourselves.

Thank you.

All right, Commissioners.

Can we get approval for consent agenda number one exclusive of item six or second?

Second.

All right.

Commissioner.

Commissioner Ulrich moved approval of consent agenda number one, exclusive of item 1112.

Commissioner A.

Hearn Koch seconded.

We will vote, Commissioners.

Is that your vote?

Yes.

Okay.

The motion passes unanimously.

Okay.

Item 1112.

Commissioner 1221.

612.

612.

612.

We're on my getting 11.

Okay.

And I do know how to read Roman numerals, but.

All right.

Item 612.

Commissioner Ahern Koch and Commissioner Commissioner Ulrich both polled this.

I don't know who wants to address it.

Or both.

My questions that I had were pretty much answered in the last discussion that we had.

But I did have a question about the mandatory in the recommendations.

It talks about mandatory inclusionary zoning.

But it references consistent with state law.

And I was wondering if there is any updates on mandatory inclusionary zoning and how that can be consistent with state law that, to my understanding, doesn't really allow it.

Thank you, Commissioners.

And Mayor Cindy M.

Schaff, General Manager, Office of Housing and Community Development.

And I actually am going to defer that to Ryan Chaplin.

I don't deal with mandatory inclusionary zoning.

Good morning, Ryan Chapterlin, General Manager Planning Department.

No new changes with the State.

Obviously, if anything, it's probably the other way with Senate Bill 180.

So unfortunately, there is no new information on that particular topic.

So that's kind of conflicting statements, right?

Recommend for mandatory inclusionary zoning consistent with state law, which means if you're changes, right?

That may be, you know, because I think yeah, it would be nice if we just talked about the previous item.

You know, how do we look at you know adding even more affordable housing uh when with respect to a rezoner compliant amendment?

Well, right now it's a little more challenging to do, but you know, perhaps I can change in the future.

Okay.

Placeholder discussion.

Yes.

So that was my question.

Thank you.

Okay, Commissioner Ulrich.

I do have one.

A lot of my questions were addressed in the previous presentation.

But on in the report on page nine, in the fifth column from the left, there's reference to the city's FTG permitting software.

And I'm wondering if that can be used to improve our tracking to more than density bonus affordable housing.

Could we use that same software for other affordable housing initiatives to track them?

We can.

We are using it now currently for the accessory dwelling units, trying to get a better figure for that.

I think right now we've since the program was uh initiated back in 2021 citywide, we've have uh roughly 70 permits for ADUs.

Um but yes, there is an ability to track within there.

It's it takes uh you know a little bit of working with the software engineers to do that, but yes, we can somewhat customize it for certain things.

Great.

Thank you.

That's my only question.

All right.

Um can I get a motion then?

Oh, I'm sorry.

You I didn't even know.

No, no, that's no problem.

Thank you, Mayor.

I looked a second ago.

There was nobody on there, so I just a quick statement and a correction of myself in speaking with uh uh Mrs.

Inshaw, you know, that you know I talked about how outside of uh private development, you know, no uh um affordable housing units or whatever zero, but it's the you know departments such as yours, and you know, the community of housing development that also has provided uh affordable housing along with the housing authority and and people like Scott Eller and and uh um Mark Vengroff and uh Habitat for Humanity.

So thank you for bringing that to my attention.

And uh so I stand corrected.

Thank you.

All right, thank you all.

Okay.

Um can I get a motion or you did you guys did the motion, right?

No, we don't know.

I don't think so.

Okay.

Can I get a motion?

I will move to approve the 2025 affordable housing advisory committee recommendations.

Second.

All right.

Uh Commissioner Ulrich moved approval of uh agenda item 612.

Commissioner Batti seconded.

If you will vote, Commissioners.

Is that your vote?

All right.

The motion passes unanimously.

All right.

We move on to consent agenda number two.

And are there any items to be pulled?

We only have one item.

We have the one.

I wasn't aware of anyone wanting to pull this one, so you will then read the title.

Thank you, Mayor.

Resolution 26R 3362, a resolution of the City Commission of the City of Sarasota, Florida, amending the budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2025 by providing for supplemental appropriations in the amounts identified in exhibit A, providing for several ability if any of the parts here are declared invalid, providing for reading by title only and provide an effective date.

All right.

Second.

All right.

Commissioner Baptine moved approval of consent agenda number two.

Commissioner Ulrich seconded.

If you'll vote, Commissioners.

Is that your vote?

No, thank you.

All right.

The motion passes unanimously.

All right.

We are on to unfinished business.

And this is the discussion regarding the city manager search update.

The city order and clerk Griggs and City Attorney Polzak uh for their presentation or input.

Um thank you, Mayor.

Um, as added to change it to the order of the day, we received the draft city manager search advertisement that was provided for your review.

We also have the consultant via Zoom to discuss um any suggestions, comments, whatever you you feel needs to happen.

So um you can also um talk to Warren as well.

So I'll open the board up to floor up to any questions.

Oh, sorry, I'm still on vote.

My bad.

There you go.

Give it a second there.

All right.

Vice Mayor Trice.

Okay.

Uh first of all, I have a question, I think is a typo on the first page number seven A, review of salary range.

What is A?

Recommend a tighter what?

Okay.

Maybe we could pull Warren in to go answer some of these questions.

Um, hiring range should be.

So that's why.

Or compensation range.

The word was and that one out.

I would appreciate, I mean, if if he is accessible via Zoom or somebody from the firm is accessible via Zoom.

Um I would like to know the rationale for that recommendation.

Okay.

Let's give him a chance to get in here.

Yeah.

Um Warren, can you go ahead and chime in?

Can you all hear me okay?

Yes.

Okay, great.

Yeah, and it looks like I don't know that I have the option to turn my video on, but uh I'm here and um if you I don't know if that's something the city can do, but uh on the Zoom, but um Yeah, so the it is a definitely a tighter hiring range, sorry for the typo there.

And uh what we like to do is you've got a very large range um for the position, which is normal for uh um for a city uh hiring chart.

And so we like to do is just try to keep it to a $20,000 range.

So there's no magic.

Uh we try to just do um something where there is a little bit of growth within your range, but also uh remain highly competitive within the marketplace for a city of of this size and complexity.

And so it's really I'm trying to keep you to uh somewhere in a $20,000 range as opposed to $40,000 range.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um and then I I had some questions about the housing assistance that you were suggesting.

Oh overall, I think the um advertisement recruitment brochure is excellent.

Um of the factors with the city is that half of our residents do rent.

So I had a suggestion within, I think it's on I don't know, page nine, the page with the uh median cost of a home that you might also include the median cost to rent a home in the city of Sarasota.

And I moved someplace across the country for a job, and the thing that was immediately recommended to me is rent for a year to figure out where in the city you would like to live.

So I don't know whether that can be something to include, but I think that that would be probably advantageous for the candidates to realize that the only places that they would want to live are not the ones on the waterfront that cost multiple million dollars, that there are very pleasant places to live that are affordable, and if they rent for a year, they can find something that they might want to purchase.

But at this point, and I think the idea of a housing assistance is good.

I'm not prepared to choose a method at this point, but I'd like to hear from you.

Are there of the of the five that you suggested, are there ones that are more frequently used or preferred or whatever?

What are your recommendations along those lines?

Excellent.

Well, thank you.

Yeah, we'll add a uh sentence for the meeting housing for rent.

I think that's a good suggestion and also good advice to folks as you go into an area that may not be as familiar with.

Um so thank you for sharing that.

And so I think the five that I've shared here are all um similar but different.

And so I think the there's really not one that I would say is used most often.

Uh and frankly, outside of you know, high cost housing areas um that have a residency requirement, this is not a common practice for um for housing assistance.

So it's not something that almost every city does, and here's what they normally do.

So it's uh it's it's really has to be unique to the community and sort of what your um both risk profile is uh from a council standpoint um and what you're trying to accomplish.

So some of them you know really have some bigger risk to the city and some have lower risk, and then also there's some policy considerations in here regarding um trying to get somebody to stay longer that they would have a bigger benefit from that.

Um then also uh you know from the city standpoint of as to when the person leaves, what uh impact is that going to have financially.

In other words, so if you you know um is does the city own the house and be able to either sell it or um you know provide it to the next manager coming in.

So those are some things to consider.

So overall I I didn't expect at all um that the council has to make any decisions on this whatsoever.

This was more just to plant seed so that as we get into the process um and you have candidate that may um be hesitant to apply for the job because of the housing, or when they get into the process, it would make it more difficult for them to take the job.

Um at least you know you all have had some discussions ahead of time on what you'd be willing to do.

Um and then these would be then negotiable between the city and a preferred candidate.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's that's all I have for you.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner A.

Thank you.

Um I do have some uh questions uh throughout here, just you know, a lot of words mything, but I did want to say ahead of that.

Um I think that the overall um direction and presentation of this is is pretty darn solid uh and something that I uh I really like.

I think it's it's it's gonna be effective.

Um I did have a question, so starting on that first page uh with the the hiring instead of hiring range, maybe compensation range was uh a suggestion.

And for the A discussion of the challenges related to the residency requirement.

Um how does the limited severance payouts by Florida law relate to the residency requirement?

So it's a good question.

I think it's all sort of um one big issue as to you know would you move um for this job?

And so you may be willing to take more of a risk on the housing if you knew that if things didn't work out, you know, you'd have more of a 12-month severance as opposed to four months.

And so you know I think that's our five months actually under Florida law.

So I think that that's how it's connected to that.

And then I think the the the feedback I've gotten from candidates so far is that there's some hesitancy to apply based on the residency requirement, not necessarily because people don't want to live in Sarasota they do for the most part but um you know they there's a some risks evolved not only with the high cost of housing but also the fact that Florida limits severance.

Okay.

So don't most people who are applying or city managers know that I've heard the average is five-ish years and you're it's sort of part of the job isn't it that you know you you know it's not I mean it's rare we had Ken Thompson who is the longest serving city manager in the history of the world.

But aside from that, isn't the average about five years and isn't this part of the job or is that a totally outdated way of thinking about this job.

So I think that's pretty accurate.

The and I think really from a candidate standpoint, you know they've got to look at the worst case scenario.

And so when you look at sort of the just sort of the environment around us it's a little more toxic than I think it was when I was the city manager even so they're they're really starting to job hug a little bit more and not necessarily want to take a risk because they don't if they got something half decent you know taking a risk to go somewhere else there's a lot of risk to that for them.

So I I think it's different for every candidate and in their situation as well.

So it's is a lot of variability to that.

Okay.

So I guess what you're saying which I didn't take into consideration is that they could be in a pretty stable investment of their own right now and this could put that at risk if they were to do it.

And everybody's different so maybe they didn't take that into consideration and and and so it is a risk.

I I um appreciate the housing assistant program options.

I'm not a fan, just so the commission knows of three, four, and five I I would consider one in two if we had caps on there and parameters and guidelines and rules and things but you know I guess it's I guess it's something we have to discuss the the the reality of whether we offer something or not but you know we don't offer anything for our auditor and clerk or our attorney and so you know we how does that play into all of this is what I I'm just thinking about it.

And I don't know if the city has ever done that before.

I don't know if we've ever offered a CAP or if any other cities do that where they offered down payment assistance and they get to earn it off over time.

I'm not really sure um how comfortable I feel with that.

So I just I want to put that out there I think it's a a piece of the discussion and how does that play out for the rest of our our staff and and our directors and so on and so forth.

The idea that you live in the city where you're working is really a good idea and it's really important.

That's I think it's valuable that it's in our charter that we require that I I would love it if the city had more staff that and directors that worked in the city of Sarasota affordability is obviously an issue.

But I don't know.

I'm just looking forward to potentially a having a a broader discussion about that's the one big item I I I felt needed more commission discussion.

On the page with about the community the second paragraph with a population of roughly 60,000 residents the city's energy expands significantly during the winter months?

I'm not really sure what you mean by that yeah I think it's like vitality in that you've got um when you have more people population or people or residency or tourists or but energy?

I thought well we can look at some alternate words to that okay and then a little further down there the laid back coastal elegance and forward looking innovation I thought was also a little bit awkward like they didn't really relate.

On the next page there's a sentence in there about you know the film festival and things and the Power Boat Grand Prix festival I think that that one is no longer taking place am I correct on that in the city?

Paused anyway it was paused yeah okay.

That first paragraph reads to me as not accurate.

So the the city was established in in on October 14, 1902, and our first mayor was Gillespie.

It reads to me as if our first mayor was Gillespie in 1913, which is not accurate.

So I would just check um the facts on that page there.

And then on the page that talks about Sarasota experience and you talk about artists, entrepreneurs, professionals and families, I would also add in there retirees.

It's a big part of our population that we have to address.

And then on some of the um the role of the city manager, I think it's important on so it's on the first page of the role or is it the second page?

The second page of the role.

I I don't know there are no page numbers on my document here, so I don't add some that's good.

It's keep going.

It so it's um key responsibilities you have the blue box and then below it it says the next city manager of Sarasota will be forward thinking.

Maybe I'll also add in their energetic because I believe this is a a really demanding role.

And um is the second page of that the ideal candidate will value transparency, communication and teamwork working in full partnership with the City Commission.

Carrying out policy I really think it's important that that is not understated and on the next page challenges and opportunities.

What do you want not overstated?

Something here?

Yeah.

Okay.

When it talks about the ideal candidate will value transparency, communication, and teamwork working in full partnership with the Commission and to add in carrying out policy.

It's the the Commission doesn't work with the city manager to decide the policy.

We make the policy the city manager carries it out and I think that that's really an important thing that needs to be I don't think it says that but okay.

It it doesn't say that that's why I am suggesting adding it.

But I think never mind.

Okay.

It doesn't apply it.

Challenges and opportunities, the second paragraph I thought was excellent.

Can I can I make um um make a statement I just want us to be careful about where Smith and is so much we will never get this out if we're going to do it like this.

Right.

I'm being honest.

So let's really talk about the bulk important things you really need to see on this because if we keep doing it what we're doing right now, we will never get this ad out.

We will really like to get it out as soon as possible because what we're talking about right now, I'm gonna have to bring this back again.

So my you know like the spelling errors and the suggestions of words in here should I have done that with him directly?

Or get with us, give it to us we can work with him but I really want you all to focus on the big so the big one is the qualifications.

The ideal candidate must have at least 10 years of progressive senior management.

The number 10 years I'm not a fan of that number I don't know where the 10 years came from and so I was curious about 10 years.

And then the other big one was the review time go ahead and answer and then we'll move on to the next person and come back.

And my other substantive question was about the review time of being um December 5th okay I can address both of those.

So the I think the under the qualifications we stole that from the last brochure um but I'm I'm not sure I'd have to check on that.

And so it's there's no magic to that it's it's basically looking at you know if it would be 10 years from the time that you became a department head till the time that you'd be ready for this but um you know we can change that to just say the ideal candidate must have um you know uh progressive senior management experience as a city manager, assistant city manager, department head.

I I'd like to make it even potentially a little bit more open in the you know we obviously want to consider folks that have a a different background as well.

Well and I bring it up because and I'm I'm okay with what you had just mentioned is opening it up a little bit suggesting government or nonprofit and having you know progressive you know of a solid amount of or whatever word but I think there were other commissioners who preferred to actually have a minimum of years experience listed so I I you know invite the others to weigh in on that um suggestion okay Commissioner Ulrich Thank you mayor um I thought you did a really good job of capturing the description of the community the government structure and the ideal candidate profile as well as most of the other uh sections listed on your page one here um I voiced um during our discussions I thought it was important that we had someone who was either working toward eligibility or eligible for membership or a member of ICMA for me it's more uh one of the important reasons is for their code of ethics and um so I'd like to see that included um regarding the salary range I'm quite okay with tightening the compensation range and I do like the word compensation range uh rather than hiring range or highing range um I do have a few words that I will bring forward for discussion with Ms.

Griggs thank you right um before we go back to you Vice Mayor I'm gonna take a uh uh a turn um number one the I I thought overall it was very good and um you know in and mostly a candidate looking at this is not going to like evaluate each and every sentence they're gonna look at the overall and then decide whether they want to apply or not.

So I don't know that it that you know we need to to wordsmith it a lot but you know the only thing I noted was the qualifications.

I wanted to expand that as well so I'm glad that you brought that up Warren and that it sounds like that there's not a an issue with the Commission to to change that.

As far as the ICMA, I think that's a worthy goal.

I don't think we have to require that they've already become a member or they're working towards that I think we can require that they become a member if they come to work for us.

So that can be part of the negotiations and I don't have a feeling whether we tighten the the compensation range or we don't so I'm okay with with either either one of that.

So everything I thought was was fine.

I was concerned that with Friday's meeting where we'll be naming a new um mayor whether you know we should wait to put who the mayor is in in at that time but if it's you know if it's going to delay it getting out I don't you know because there would have to be another video done and you know the whole thing or you just want to send it out but I just wanted to to bring that up because it's yeah I think a lot of that is based off of what we feed back we get today because it sounds like we're getting a lot of feedback.

So I don't I don't know if if we I don't know okay that's that's all I had and uh Vice Mayor Trice.

You don't know I was just going to say something.

Okay, yeah Commissioner Batzi.

Thank you Mayor um thank you Major Mayor No I I just wanted to uh you know um let him know that um you know I thought that um the brochure was very uh comprehensive and thorough um I don't have an issue with it and I'm damn sure not going through here like parsing words and whatnot.

Um that's not happening but um I think I think they did a uh great job overall and um you know pretty much describes not only the position and what's required and uh what we need as a city and as an organization but pretty um but definitely a great job in describing you know Sarasota and uh um and what makes Sarasota Sarasota Phil.

And um, you know, pretty much describes not only the position and and what's required and uh what we need as a city and as an organization, but pretty much um but definitely a great job in describing you know Sarasota and uh um and what makes Sarasota Sarasota.

So thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

All right, Commissioner or Vice Mayor Trice.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um, I I a little bit confused.

My understanding of the first page, City of Sarasota, City Manager brochure review.

I'm assuming that's our agenda for this meeting that is not going out.

Yes.

That is correct.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, thank you.

So all the notes on here is just for our information.

Um the other thing is my understanding is that the brochure was developed as a result of the one-on-one conversations that you had with each of us, and I think you did an excellent job of consolidating our individual hot buttons into a unified document.

So I would be reluctant to even make significant changes based on comments here at the Dais, because it might be this is what one commissioner wanted to emphasize, but not what the rest of us wanted to emphasize.

I think it was well consolidated.

Um I wanted to clarify for you.

You mentioned about the qualifications were in the previous brochure.

That brochure by the previous search firm was not vetted by the commissioners.

So if you saw something in there, it wasn't necessarily what we would have agreed on.

I suggest instead reviewing what we sent to the three search firms that you know we invited to bid saying this is what we discussed at a workshop, and that might be a better um indication of what we as a group thought should the qualification should be.

Um by the mayor, and I'm assuming you wrote it.

I thought it was good.

Thank you.

That's all I had.

It was a team effort for sure.

Yes, I was gonna say I didn't.

I'm good at reading just so.

Um Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um I neglected neglected to comment on the housing assistance program options that are printed here.

I like the idea of renting first.

It'd probably be easier for somebody coming to town.

And secondly, I wonder if there'd be value in discussing the impact to the city with the finance director of these five of five that are in print here.

Not to prolong the process, but just to get some opinion from finance.

And and I I totally agree with that.

And also too, please don't make any decisions based off of what me and the city attorney don't have.

I want you all to make the best decision that will attract the best person.

And if you got to put together a package that doesn't have the same thing we don't have, please don't make it based off of that.

I want you guys to find someone good.

And if that's what you got to do to get the best qualified person, do what you got to do, please.

I and I'm only speaking for myself.

I can't speak for for the city attorney, but I want you guys to do what you need to do.

Please don't base what we have and don't have based off of the.

And and we don't have to make that decision today.

We would have them come back with that information on that.

Okay.

Um Commissioner Aaron Codge.

Thank you.

I have a question about the salary range.

Um on the um cover page there that you have, it says uh 275 to 295.

But on the last page where it talks about compensation and benefits, it says to 25 and 305, which is um 80,000 range as opposed to the 20,000 you spoke of.

So I'm not sure.

Yeah.

I can I can address that.

Uh so the salary range that's in the last page of the brochure, uh the 225 to 305 is what y'all provided to me um from the staff.

That I think that's the official salary range for the position um that y'all have adopted.

Um so what we're trying to um do is not change that, uh, I think that's fine.

Um what we're trying to do is when we do our advertising, um I'm trying to list more of a hiring range so that the candidates when they um you know are made an offer, um, they know that you know generally where it's gonna be, because it's a big difference between if they're expecting, you know, I'll take the job at 305 versus you know, and then you all come in at 225.

Um it's a big disparity.

So what we're trying to do is shortcut miscommunication and expectations so that when we get to the final part where we're making an offer, um everybody's got a reasonable expectation of what's going to be offered.

And that if it's, you know, if y'all offered two seventy-five and they expected two ninety-five, we can negotiate.

If if it's two twenty-five, you know, that y'all offer in three oh five that they want, you're done.

I mean, it's not going to get to the middle on that one.

So it's really more strategic than anything in the advertisement to give them a more reasonable idea of what to expect so that when we get to the end, we're not going to strike out based on salary because everybody already sort of knows what's going to happen.

Is the strategy there?

And so what the numbers are doesn't really matter to me as much as having a hiring range that we're advertising.

So it's not an official that the cities adopted.

It's just a matter of I'd like to advertise it in that range as opposed to advertising the full range.

Um I doesn't it also sh the housing assistant program options, wouldn't that also be in the compensation package if we do indeed choose to do something like that?

Yeah, it would, but you know, that's not something you have now, and it's not something that I would expect y'all would decide uh before we get the brochure out.

Okay.

And so I'm just being more proactive on that to say the feedback I've gotten so far from candidates is that housing is an issue.

So, you know, I figure if I bring it up now by the time we get to the point of making an offer, and that bec that is an issue for the candidates, y'all have of you know, at least uh let it cook and and we can discuss it.

And I can also say to the candidates, you know, we've presented some housing assistant program options.

Um, no decisions have been made, and we're not sure what the you know what the commission may do on that, but it is something under discussion, and I think that's helpful.

Okay.

Um I do like the vice mayor's suggestion of reminding them that renting is uh an option.

And we'll we'll do that.

That's that's common sense.

All right.

Um I just I just have one more going back to the last page with the timeline.

Um the semi-finalist interviews, is that one that the commission will be involved in, or would that be something that your firm would be doing outside of our involvement?

Yeah, the latter.

So the the way this would work is the first I'll just kind of walk through you through the process.

And again, it's flexible in that if you want it done differently, I'm open to that.

So uh we would have the first review of resumes, and the reason we do that from a um sort of rules standpoint is that if someone does incredible applies well after the first review of resumes, we're not required to tell them that sorry you came in past the deadline.

So it keeps the city's options open, but it also creates some sort of urgency in that you know, we have a deadline in here and try to encourage most people to apply.

So once we have met that date, we will very quickly go ahead and put the initial candidate report together and get that to you.

Um then at that point y'all would go through that initial candidate report, which again is gonna include every application that you get and every material that we receive.

So you'll see everything that we see.

Um and then we will um need to meet with you in between the first review of resumes and the semifinalist interviews uh so that y'all can select the semifinalists.

So it this may be too aggressive of a deadline just based on that and the timing in the in December.

But to answer your question in short, the semifinalist interviews would be um Zoom recorded live interviews that we would uh present to you so you can watch all the videos, but they would be our firm doing the interviews and would not involve the commission until after we're done with all of them, and then we'll hand them over to you to take a look at, which will be part of your process of selecting finalists to bring into Sarasota, which is the finalist interview number four on the list.

And so I've had some misgivings since I put this together that I think it may be too aggressive from a timeline standpoint, because y'all need to meet between the first review of resumes and the semifinalists to select semifinalists.

And for us putting the initial candidate report together, getting that to you, and then you selecting the semifinalist interviews and then us doing those in mid-December seems a little bit aggressive and optimistic.

Yeah, I I I see the dates just from the dates when we would normally be meeting and when we normally have a hiatus.

You know, I was even in my mind moving that semifinalist interviews to beginning of January.

Yeah.

Our our last meeting is December 1st, Warren's, and then we go into January.

So what I was thinking on on the fly here is to move the first review of resumes to December 12th, because I think also we don't have a December meeting after the first.

Now I can if the Commission so would like to, we can't schedule a special meeting.

So just FY.

Well, it wouldn't be necessary to have the meeting at that point because that would be just me taking the resumes, writing the report and sending it to you.

And so the next step would be the commission of reviewing that report publicly and then identifying your semifinalists.

So that could be done in January.

That's fine, because we can get we can forward you all the report, and you can review it and then we can talk about it in January.

Yeah, you'll get it in December.

And uh and then you'll have till January to decide sort of what you want to do from there.

And um and then we can do the January.

So what is the date of y'all's meetings in January?

We only have one meeting in D um sorry, January, I'm sorry.

I was gonna miss up with December.

Just a second.

I could tell you in one second here.

Um January, our first meeting in January will be the 5th of January.

And then the second meeting in January will be the 20th.

Which is a Tuesday because the 19th is a holiday.

I mean, I think January 5th is reasonable, unless y'all disagree.

And then uh we can take us uh about 10 days to complete the interviews, depending on how many there are.

Um, but we'll be we we're pretty aggressive once we get the list from y'all and the semifinalists, we'll get those scheduled and recorded so we can send them back to you.

Um then I think from there, let's see, if you pick them on the 5th, the 20th is tight to have a full report to you, but it's doable.

So we could do potentially January 20th for the uh to review the semifinalists and select finalists, or what is your next meeting after that?

That would be the first meeting in February?

Yes.

Yeah.

I think that's a good thing.

So either of those dates is probably okay.

Um can I ask um is it possible to see if you all um based off of what you're hearing here today, Warren, to kind of make any changes that you see fit based off of the conversation here today.

Is there any way that you can get me a quick time turnaround time to bring the ad back again for the next meeting?

Um I don't think it's anything that significant.

We probably by the end of this week we could have a draft.

Okay.

I just want to make sure that I can state that on the record that we'll try to have something for the next meeting to I once you guys have finished this ad.

Yeah.

Right.

What when is y'all's next meeting?

Is it December?

No, next next.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's no problem at all.

We'll have this uh we'll have this to you by Friday.

Okay.

I guess my question then is if we approve the ad on November 17th, how much time does that give potential candidates to get their applications in?

Yeah, so that will drive the date into uh December.

I mean, uh past the fifth.

So we're probably looking at I like to do a three-week period because I think that's sufficient to um get the ad, you know, and the materials out to as many people as possible.

So I'd be looking at somewhere between the 12th and the 17th, probably of December on the first review of resumes, because now I have a nice break until January 5th, where y'all are going to select the semifinalists.

So it gives me some room.

So I'm thinking probably the 12th or the 17th of December, we would do the first review of resumes now.

Move that back a little bit.

Well, let me ask the Commission, Ms.

Warren real quick, just to make sure.

So we don't want to assume that you all are good with this ad.

I I don't we don't want to make the assumption that you know everybody's okay with it, because I don't feel like everyone is.

So that's why I was saying bring it back for you all to really finalize.

Not unless some you all are ready to make that finalization today.

I'm fine with that.

But I just don't want to assume that everybody is okay with that.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Um would it be acceptable if we received the changes and if there were some concerns after we received the changes, we could call a special meeting just for that for a half an hour or so.

If we don't have any major concerns, we'll just let it go after we see the revised draft.

It's really it's up to you all as a buyer.

I don't have a stake in it.

Are there any sunshine violations, concerns with that process?

No, have a special meeting?

No.

No.

Would be one commissioner theoretically asking for a special meeting.

Right.

Um the mayor.

Yeah.

Mayor.

I mean, really, staff could say we need a meeting and we need to talk about it.

Like if Mr.

Bullock or myself and city attorney say, hey, we need to talk about this.

We need a decision.

We can say we need a meeting.

So for me the big things are the compensation package and the the range and the you know the housing issue that we haven't had a chance to discuss how we feel about that.

Those are the two major things.

The rest I mentioned about just wordsmithing and getting some of those things correct.

Other than that, it those are the two big things in my book.

Do you all want to talk about it now then?

Because my understanding from our discussion earlier is the housing does not have to be included at all at this point.

I think it when we get into negotiations with candidates, that's when we would have had to have had the discussion.

Right.

But do we um do we want to even entertain that at all is my question.

Like do we want to say we're gonna talk about that um at all as a commission about giving something for housing?

Um and if we do that, is that opening a door for other future charter officials?

I mean, we don't do that now.

So I mean I think it's a I think it's a very important discussion for us as a commission to have.

If we're gonna open that door, we're gonna open that door.

I think we should have the discussion, but uh on another agenda, not today.

You know, as a separate agenda item.

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

I just those those from for me were the with the the range of the salary um or the compensation is a big one.

And then that.

Those are my two big ones.

All right.

Why don't we see if we can narrow down what changes we would like to see that we would then say this is okay to go out.

So we want you know i there's proposed a narrower salary range, as suggested by by Warren.

Um, yeah, um I know it's semantics, Mayor, but I would call it a hiring range so that it doesn't change your range.

It's just basically gives me permission to advertise in a tighter tighter window.

Okay.

So that's long.

Um Commissioner Ulrich, do you have any changes that you want to make?

Um I would like to add working toward at least, if not currently, a member of ICMA.

But we don't have to be working toward it now.

You might that but that would be a requirement.

Yeah.

Okay.

And the qualifications suggested by Mr.

by by them earlier about um qualification before get rid of the 10 years and sort of have some generic discussion about that.

Right, and a wider experience range.

Yeah.

And so I would the way I've got it worded now for the qualifications, if you are okay with it, uh I'll read it to you.

Is the ideal candidate must have considerable progressive senior management experience?

Okay.

Yeah.

And you talked about adding in um nonprofit and governmental agencies as well, because this reads, I think only as city government.

Yeah.

I'm I've actually taken that out.

Just senior management.

Yeah, so it'll just say progressive senior management experience, period.

Okay.

And then that opens it up to everybody.

But uh although somehow I would like to see ideally in government.

Government.

Yeah, we can put that in the preferred if y'all would like.

I mean, it's really got it's already kind of in the preferred in a lot of ways.

But we'll put that in there for preferred.

We want preferred.

Or do you?

I don't I don't if we want if we say preferred, we're almost narrowing it again because if I'm a candidate reading that, I'm thinking they want somebody with city management experience.

So I I don't think we should add that.

You know, I don't either.

Um you don't have to be an expert in making widgets to run a widget company really well.

That's not saying we're a widget company.

We're close.

See, I see running government entity being significantly different from running a for-profit enterprise.

So do I.

Um especially you know, budgeting and the collaborations with all the other entities, you have to work with the county, you have to work with the MPO, you have to work with F DOT, so on and so forth.

All these different governmental agencies, that is that's a an incredible skill and and value to the city if somebody doesn't have to relearn all of that.

Um be done with it.

I would just say, you know, I I I think or else leave what he has there already in in, you know, changing and just say, or similar management experience, which then covers the idea that you have something that is similar to being a city manager.

Yeah.

And so I I would agree with the mayor in that what's what's going to happen on a practical basis is if we leave it here to say the ideal candidate must have considerable progressive senior management experience, you will get a wide range of folks that will apply.

And that all that means is that when we do the cutdown, y'all will choose whether or not you think those candidates with those alternate experiences are someone you want to talk to further.

So it gives you more choices, not less.

And you can still cut folks if you don't believe that somebody without government experience would be successful, then you can cut them at that point.

And I don't think that's any problem at all.

Yeah.

So we was there to move forward there.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Um Vice Mayor Trice, anything else you can do.

There was the rental issue that they that they be encouraged to rent.

Why that in there?

Well, first to include the median rent in addition to we have the median purchase price, but also include the median rent.

Whereas it's got that note in here.

Yeah, it's right now it's I think it's a good suggestion.

It's on downtown and neighborhood living.

Yeah, that'll be.

Yeah, I think that's it.

So the way I would put that is we'll put that in there statistics so they can read into it.

Okay.

And then we'll when we talk with folks and they say, you know, hey, I'm worried about the housing, I'll certainly suggest to them that you know that no one's requiring you to buy a home to meet the residency requirement that renting may be a good option for you to consider.

And then it's their personal choice at that point, but at least we've we've made them aware of the fact that there are rental properties that they can also consider, and that's not an expectation that they have to buy a home here.

Okay.

And then the other thing was that we discussed is the adjusted timeline.

Oh, yes.

That we uh yeah, that we adjust the time.

Yeah, so let me let me kind of go back over that with you so that we know it's the same page.

Yeah.

So on the timeline, so the way I'm gonna redo this is we'll have the first review of resumes.

Um I think will be uh if we're able to get this out quickly without a second meeting.

You know, I'll do it at December 12th for the um first review of resumes and then semi-finalist interviews will be in uh mid-January, and then finalist interviews uh will be probably early February.

And then background check will be late late February, you know, just to um have a sort of end point on there, but it'll probably be very quickly after the finalist interviews if that's for normal course.

Okay, I couldn't write that fast.

Um probably first review of resumes December 12th, semifinalists, mid-January.

Um what was after that?

Yeah.

So mid-January, then finalist interviews would be uh probably early February.

Okay.

And then uh background and then late February for the background check.

Okay.

Number five, yeah.

And that gives you all some flexibility.

Again, you're not this is a outline of what we expect to happen.

Um but it's stuff happens in life.

So we'll uh we'll roll with that as we go forward, but at least this sets some accountability and some expectations on y'all's part as well.

Okay.

I have I have to um I have a question about um the background checks.

That would happen uh after the finalists, shouldn't that happen more towards the semifinalist situation because pretty important.

Yeah, so there's a couple of different strategies that we do with that.

And so Florida may be a little bit different in that everything is so public.

But typically what we do is once you all get down to um your finalists and say, okay, here are the three that we want to bring into interview, we can do a background check at that point.

And then what we're talking about is doing the criminal um credit checks, uh education verifications, social media, uh all that stuff, and then reference checking.

And so typically you don't do that because of the sort of time and effort it is for the candidates until you get to a point of mutual interest.

But it can be whenever y'all want it to be, but it's more useful as you get further along and you've identified um the candidates because you all may not even know you want that person and they may not necessarily want you when you get to the semifinalist stage.

It's more you'll you'll know better as you pick finalists.

So um I would recommend the the further back you do it, the more useful it is.

So um my only input on this is in the last two experiences I've had, um uh so for here at the City Commission when when there were background checks that were presented to us, um there are a number of candidates that had interesting background checks and more than I thought of people who would apply.

And then in another experience I had with this recently, um it was at the final stage and um I was not made aware of the person's background check until at that finalist position.

And that one was my first choice.

And with the background check, which was new to me, they were my last choice.

So I personally would like that background information a little earlier, because if you have three candidates and one of them has something in their background, that's gonna really narrow your discussion.

Whereas if you have ten and three of them come up sketchy, well then then you still have seven left, um, which is kind of you know a third.

I think the possibly a good compromise would be once y'all select the finalists in early February, we'll have those complete before they get here for their interviews, so that you'll have that information going into the finalist interviews.

But I think if you end up with ten semifinalists to do it's a big burden on the candidates and also you may watch the video for five minutes and say, whoops, we don't like that person.

And you know, we're not inviting them to the finals anyway.

So I I that'd be my recommendation is to do it in between the time that you select the finalists and the time that you actually bring them in to Sarasota for their interviews.

I I I think that probably makes sense.

You know, even if we only have two left to discuss, then we choose between the two.

I mean I I I don't I'd rather have it at the semifinalists and and at least some level of your firms doing the background check.

Um, it doesn't have to be them in a video and uh I'm I don't know what you're you're proposing to do, but just some level of background check.

Um I think it'd be valuable semifinalist state.

Yeah, and so what we actually do and we've done before, and I apologize it just remembered this now, is that when we do the semifinalist um reports after we do the videos, um so we'll do the videos and then we'll have our notes.

We also do a soft background at that point, and so we do all of the um Googling and um social media checks and at that point we also provide that report.

Here's four articles that you may want to look at that give us some pause or concern based on their previous backgrounds, knowing that there's three sides to every story, but at least put it out there.

So you'll get that in the semifinalist report before you choose your finalists as well.

So you will have a modified background check at that point that's really just more of a uh media search and um and social media search.

But you won't have like criminal background checks and education verification and credit checks and references at that point.

That's the only thing you'd be missing.

Yeah.

And I'm just gonna say I don't I'm not okay with that.

But if the rest of the commission feels comfortable with that, that's obviously fine.

But I'm gonna say right now I'm not okay with that.

Um ask me.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Um uh um I'm there with the um Commissioner.

I'm there with the Commissioner Harakaj on that.

The last thing that you want.

And that in that fact I think it would almost be kind of embarrassing for somebody to become a finalist in all of this.

And then now we're hitting them with a background check, and it's like, oh, okay, they murdered somebody or whatever, you know, whatever the deal is.

But I I just think that it would be um uh a last a lot less burdensome for them if it's done at the semifinal process.

And for us to to basically, you know, be able to vet this whole situation before they become finalists or whatever.

You don't want to have to do it before then, but at the semi-final stage, I think you know it's is it's good to have a understanding and wherewithal as to what someone's background might be.

And again, I just think it would be a bit embarrassing for someone to become a finalist and then have something exposed in their background or whatever to just agree.

On the one hand, um if there's something really embarrassing in your background, you're probably not gonna apply.

But on the other hand, if there is something really embarrassing in your background, a more detailed um I forgot my words now.

Uh evaluate uh come on, help me out here, candidate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh check.

Investigation.

Background check.

Thank you, background check.

Um would help everybody.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt.

Um, to his point uh regarding you know, two three sides to every story or whatever the deal is, at the I think at the semi, you know, finalist stage, it would give opportunity for for the for that or whatever, not at the you know, the final stage or whatever.

So go ahead, Alan.

I had uh wanted some clarification.

Um how many semifinalists are we aiming to select and then how many finalists are we aiming to select?

My understanding from him was that there were three finalists.

And then that's those three is when they do the background check.

And that's too late in my book.

So so Warren, you were about to answer.

How many?

Yeah, it it's there's no real set number.

It's dependent on what we get from the applicants and so we don't limit that at all.

And so it could be, you know, we've done as many of sixteen or seventeen semifinalist, you know, interviews before on the Zoom and and soft background checks.

Uh and we've done, you know, so it and that could mean that you know if you all end up with five or six great candidates, uh bring them all in.

And so there's no limitation on you know on your finalists either as to who you want to talk to.

It's a big decision, and I'd rather you have more people to talk to than less.

Um as long as they make it through the process at that point then they still look like excellent candidates that would be you know great fits for y'all.

It can be more than three.

Okay.

Um Commissioner Holrich mentioned, oh, well, if they had that those skeletons in their closet, they wouldn't apply.

And I'm thinking about Congressman George Santos of New York whose entire resume was a lie, and it wasn't until after he was elected that they found out and they dismissed him.

So I wouldn't want to be in a situation where we have three finalists and then we discover that one of those three, you know,'s background would not pass muster.

So yeah, I would lean to earlier rather than later.

Well to move forward.

Go ahead, Mia.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, I yeah, I'm because I I I'm gonna disagree with all of you, I guess.

Um in that number one, I mean George Santos, you know, is like an unusual situation.

Most of the people applying for this, um, they're gonna either uh probably disclose or um the search firm is gonna ask them, do they have something in their background that would be embarrassing?

But also then when you do a Google search, an awful lot of stuff.

If there's stuff out there, it's gonna come up for the most part on a Google search.

So they're not gonna be able to hide that um, you know, the problem with Santos, nobody checked that out before he got he got elected.

So I don't have a problem with doing a report where they're they're just, you know, with the semifinalists doing a Google search with articles or things that come up about that person because again, I think, you know, I I would assume they're going to ask the candidates.

And you can confirm that or not, Warren, that when you're talking to the candidates, you're going to ask, is there anything that they're going to be embarrassed if it comes out?

Yes.

Interviews is, you know, are there is there anything in your background that may, you know, if it were to come out would embarrass the um commission or make you uh you know, question whether or not you'd be a good candidate.

And so at that point we usually get good confessionals as to, you know, as they don't they don't want to lie at that point.

If they do, they're going to get caught anyway.

Yeah, because they know it's going to come out.

So I think to move this forward, I think you all need to decide on that piece.

It sounds like you have some people that aren't, some people are for it.

So just to kind of move it along so we can have an understanding about the do you want the semifinalist round to include backgrounds.

I think that's where we need to figure out what we're doing.

And also define what the background is at that point.

And so there's there are two levels of backgrounds that we do.

And so the first level would be the um you know, searching uh to be to basically one, we're going to ask them if there's anything, and then secondly, we're gonna verify and and also do our own searches as well, and that would be included in your semifinalist reports.

The only thing that would be missing from the background would be your criminal check uh references, credit check, and education verification.

That would be done at the final level once you've decided sort of who you want.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Ihr Hornkop.

Uh thank you.

Um so based on the experience with the last time and to Commissioner Matisse's point.

Um, as I read through all of those applications we had last time, there were some on paper on the resumes.

Seems great.

Then when you got to their background checks, um there were issues there and some very significant issues with several of them.

No, there were b um criminal background checks.

And what that allowed some of the candidates to do, what the firm did was they said to them, we found this in your criminal background.

Here's your opportunity to respond, and the candidate had the opportunity to respond.

Now, that was valuable information because everybody makes mistakes, people have issues, things happen.

It allowed the candidate at that level to respond to that um background check.

Uh the criminal, the other things that we saw.

So I appreciated that there are three sides to every story opportunity right then and there to have that in front of me and to weigh that in the overall evaluation, as opposed to later on when you get narrowed down and then you find it out.

I'm not talking about the Googling, you know, there's an article or here and that I can Google, you can Google, we all did it.

Uh the things that the firm does best.

You know, the the the credit checks, the back the criminal checks, and then the verification of you know, education or or whatever else they do.

We're not gonna find those things in Google.

We're just not.

So that's the stuff I would like to have in front so that we're ahead of it as opposed to being caught later on and then having a pool.

And it was there were about 30 percent of the candidates that you know we we saw were okay, the resume was one thing and the background was a different thing, a different story.

So based on the 30 percent, I'd hate to be at the finalist stage, having taken our time, crossed our T's and dotted our I's and get to that stage and having 30 percent of five people taken away from us.

I'd prefer that at the semifinal stage where we have a little bit larger of a pool.

That's my feelings.

Mr.

Batti.

No, and you know, uh I echo that.

And and based on you know the last uh the last time.

I mean, uh if I'm not mistaken, there was someone that uh a good portion of us were looking at as a strong candidate, and then the background check came back and was like, so we say that you know, people you know wouldn't apply if they hadn't you'd be surprised when that I mean so um what people would do.

They just think that you're all right.

It sounds like overall people want to to do the background check at the semifinalist level.

So that's where we go with that.

Warren, does that help you?

Does that help you with what you need as far as on that?

Yeah, I just want to make sure I understand.

I'm fine with whatever stage I want to do it at.

So if I'm understanding correctly, we would give y'all the initial candidate report, which and then when y'all select the semifinalists before we do the videos, you all want the background checks and then you make another choice as to whether or not you want to keep them as semifinalists.

Yes.

Okay.

I'm fine with that.

That's going to require two meetings.

No, no, no.

I don't I I just think we would pick from those semifinalists.

We wouldn't decide whether they were going to still be semifinalists when we pick the finalists, then we probably would just exclude them.

So there's not a two-step here.

Right.

Right.

Um Vice Mayor.

Yeah.

This is a simple.

So we would do it after that we do the videos then.

So yeah, that's that's in line with what we normally do.

Okay, thank you.

Now this is a suggestion that may be a little bit w less work for you and a little bit less work for us if there's an agreement.

Uh the last time through with the previous search firm, when they did the Google search, they handed a stack of paper of printouts that included um the various candidates doing ribbon cuttings and openings and things like that, which is a waste of our time to read through them.

So I would even suggest that with the Google search, you only provide us you know something that is substantive.

Substantive rather than we are in agreement with that.

We only provide things that would cause us to pause, not things that would be um you know normal and normal course or even good for them.

So yes, we would only provide you things that we would say, you know, you may want to look at this because you may not want to talk to this candidate any further.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh commissioner.

Or some positive, right?

Yeah.

Commissioner Albrecht?

Thank you.

Um I'm fine with what we have discussed so far.

I assume that we will have the opportunity to finalize the um process for the final interviews.

Um if we're what kind of uh community involvement there will be.

We can we can that kind of stuff that will be done later.

Because we're just trying to get the brochure out.

Okay, so we'll definitely bring that back.

Anything else in the brochure so that we can um I would now like a motion for you all to approve the brochure for us to move forward with this state.

That changes changes.

That's what yeah.

So do we have all the changes?

And for the timeline, just to be realistic about it.

Um Warren, you were saying deciding on the semifinals interviews the first meeting in January.

And then you'd conduct them after that first meeting, correct?

Correct, yes.

And so I my plan also just to let y'all know is I was planning on coming down.

Um I will come in for the meeting on January uh 5th as well, so that we can help you kind of get that get to your semifinalists and also address uh process at that point as to sort of what we want to do as we get further so we can plan that out ahead.

So Commissioners, realistically then you're probably next action is gonna be a first meeting in February based on those interviews.

Well, no, the first action will be January 5th to choose which semifinalists you want to do.

I'm saying after that.

I'm saying after those interviews are gonna occur mid-January, then we're gonna come back first meeting.

February.

Yeah.

But but before that we will have received the resumes to review.

Right.

Yeah.

So then your finalist interviews are gonna be after the first meeting in February.

So realistically, March.

I just don't want to false advertise like a study the first or second meeting in February.

Or we but let's let's see if we can keep it on track in a regular meeting, but we might need a we might need a special meeting if it's a good idea.

Yeah, we might need a special meeting to push the case.

Because it's like well, and and because it's time consuming.

Yeah.

I'm about to jump out of my seat.

Good God, I'm I can we get on with this?

Make a motion.

Okay.

So I'm uh I'm prepared to make the motion that we approve the brochure with the changes that we have enumerated and subject to review um what's the date?

Well, pri and and I just thought we were yeah, we were going to be able to do that.

Well, we were we're approving, but if if we wanted substantive changes or we you know, we didn't think that everything we needed or we enumerated was done, we can have a special meeting for the revisions.

But I didn't take it as that.

I took it as what we're what you all are suggesting now.

We move with the revisions.

The revisions and we move forward with the advertisement.

That's what I took from this whole conversation.

Why he he would make those we will make sure he makes those revisions.

Okay.

So we are approving with the revisions.

You want to enumerate them?

Um that they would be willing to work toward the I think.

Um willing to work toward the ICMA um designation.

Um what he has now for qualifications, but add or similar um actually you you made changes to the wording.

We're going with those changes to the wording that opens it up to other um other qualifications.

That's it.

That's four.

No, no.

No, no.

That they're willing to do it.

They'd be willing to work towards becoming an ICAM ICMA member.

They don't have to be there now.

That's fine.

Yeah.

No, there's a Yes.

I understand now.

Okay.

So is everybody clearer then about what the changes are?

Okay.

Is that a motion?

Is that the motion?

Yeah.

Well, the background checks isn't in the motion, or isn't in the brochure, is it?

Is it?

No.

No.

Okay.

So that's not yeah, that's not part of this motion.

But it's in the timeline.

Yeah.

So the motion is to approve the brochure um as presented, but with the additional five changes enumerated that uh Mr.

Pulzak and Ms.

Griggs will review the final uh document be f to authorise it to be advertised.

I also seconded it.

Um we will uh you know Vice Mayor made the motion to approve the brochure with the five changes enumerated.

Uh Commissioner Ulrich and Commissioner Batti seconded.

So Commissioners, is there any more discussion?

I just feel like I seconded Pythagoran's theorem as long.

All right.

Yes.

The motion passes.

All right, good job.

Thank you.

All right.

We are at Warren.

Thank you, Warren.

Sorry, Warren.

Uh we are at lunchtime essentially here, so we it's eleven fifty-three.

We'll break or we'll take a recess until one o'clock.

Thank you.

Okay, it's one o'clock on Monday, November third, twenty twenty five.

So I'm gonna call this regular City Commission meeting to order.

And we are at new business.

Legislative public hearing.

All right.

Yeah, we didn't go past that.

Oh, we got one.

All right.

This is item ten one.

And this is a uh public hearing on proposed ordinance number twenty-five fifty-five eighty-one.

And I'm going to open the public hearing on that proposed ordinance and ask the city auditor and clerk to read the title.

Um also to Mayor.

Um anyone who plans to speak at his public hearing, please stand and take an oath.

Thank you.

Do you swear or if I made evidence or factual representations which you're about to give or present to this commission during any public hearing hill this third day of November 2025, our truthful?

Thank you.

And I'll go ahead and read the title.

Ordinance number two five-five five eight one, an ordinance of the city of Sarasota, Florida, amending the future land use chapter of the comprehensive plan of the City of Sarasota, aka the Sarasota City Plan to change the future land use map classification of a parcel of real property containing approximately nine point two plus minus acres and constitu I'm sorry.

From the community commun community commercial future land use map classification to the production of intensive commercial future land use map classification in accordance with comprehensive plan amendment application number two five dash PA Two, repealing ordinances in conflict, providing for decepability of the parts here of providing for reading by title only and providing for ineffective date.

Sorry about the word fumble there.

Okay.

Okay.

So we will call on uh manager of long range planning Smith to make a presentation.

At all.

I'm Wayne Appleby, economic development manager and real estate manager for the city.

Barron Channer, representative of Newtown Gateway, the would-be buyer for the site.

I'm Bob Fornier, immediate former, now retired city attorney.

And I have retained some responsibility on this particular file by way of explanation because I was involved in the drafting of the original purchase and sale agreement and the subsequent amendment that was approved a few months ago.

And since this application today is being filed as a result of a requirement in the purchase and sale agreement, I was also asked to prepare the ordinance in front of you today in the rezoning ordinance.

So I'm here to answer any questions on that today, as well as to bring up a relatively minor secondary item about administration of the purchase and sale agreement after we're through with Mr.

Appleby.

Okay.

Thank you.

Bob was nice enough to continue on with this project and save us a lot of hassle.

All right.

I think that that makes sense.

Okay.

Well, I'll go ahead and begin the comprehensive plan amendment presentation.

This is a uh comprehensive plan amendment for the Mayor Anderson site.

Uh the contract purchaser for the site, you have a purchase and sale grade agreement, is Newtown Gateway LLC.

It's not moving.

Like stuck.

There we go.

Uh the subject site is uh has an address of 2046, Dr.

Martin Luther King Jr.

Way.

It's 9.22 acres.

Uh this is a city-initiated comprehensive plan amendment.

I filed the uh amendment on behalf of the city.

Uh and again, the contract purchaser is Newtown Gateway.

LLC.

And the proposed change is to change the land use from community commercial to production intensive commercial.

That is our industrial land use category.

Uh the city is processing this amendment to change the future land use map from the city-owned property in conjunction with a purchase and sale agreement with Newtown Gateway LLC.

Newtown Gateway LLC intends to market the site for light industrial uses, such as uh a warehouse distribution center.

And they've also submitted a development application to rezone the property to the industrial general uh district.

Our production-intensive commercial land use classification uh is our industrial uh land use class, and it does provide for the zone districts of one of the zone districts, IgD, which the applicant has uh submitted an application for.

Uh here you'll see uh aerial photograph of the site.

You'll see that is uh generally vacant.

Uh the current zoning on the site is CRD, which is the commercial residential district.

And the future land use map today is the red, which is community commercial, and the proposal is to change it to this gray color production intensive commercial.

Uh for a comp plan amendment, we conduct a public benefit review, and we have guidelines in the zoning code for uh doing that review.

The review is performed on a chapter by chapter basis and centers on whether or not the petition would achieve or further the uh goals, objectives, and action strategies in the comprehensive plan.

The key findings.

Uh community workshop was held February 26, 2025, earlier this year.

Approval of this amendment would further economic development in the North Sarasota area as Newtown Gateway LLC proposes to market and develop the site with uh industrial light industrial use.

Infill development on the site would transform a long time vacant and blighted site into a productive job producing site.

It would be beneficial for the community.

The site is appropriate for light intensity industrial or uh commercial intensive types of uses.

Uh existing uses of these types are nearby.

It's to the west and to the south.

The land located directly north of the site is also city-owned property as part of the purchase and sale agreement.

Uh Newtown Gateway LLC will also be purchasing that property.

The land directly east of the site is the Seminole Gulf Railroad right-of-way.

It's about 130 feet wide, you know, separates the site from single multifamily residential dwellings in Sarasota County.

There's also a church located there.

That separation does provide uh some reduction uh from the impacts associated with light industrial use on the site.

Uh we did submit the application over to Sarasota County Planning Staff for any review and comment.

They did not have any comment other than that the site is a brownfield site, and we may need to coordinate with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

Uh location of this site is uh major detriment to for commercial development.

The site does not have frontage on a highway, the high volume highway, which most retail developers seek.

That front on 301.

And the site is to the rear of those businesses, and it offers little to no visibility from the busy roadway.

Levels of service would not be impacted if this amendment were approved.

We did look at uh establishing a precedent.

Uh we do not believe that it would establish a precedent.

Let me talk a little bit about the rezoning petition.

Uh it is not with you today on today's agenda.

Um, but the uh applicant uh uh actually the planning board did recommend approval of the rezone petition as well as the plan amendment.

Uh but with the rezone petition, uh they did include a conditional uh another condition, and it's basically it was a proffer from uh the applicant uh to prevent dust particulate and other environmental problems to be determined prior to the rezone petition being presented to the city.

Um as it's not on your agenda today with the rezone petition, I do want to point out that that proffer can be put into the comprehensive plan.

And if so, it would go into action strategy 1.10, site specific limitations, it would be number 10.

If the City Commission does wish to move forward with that.

Uh really the reason for that particular proffer uh linked to that proffer is the industrial service category in the zoning code.

Uh it's a permitted use in both the industrial general district and the industrial heavy district.

Of course, the industrial general district is the uh district that the applicant uh has applied for with the rezone petition.

Uh some of the uses allowed in the IGD uh or in industrial service category are salvage or wrecking of heavy machinery, material and building materials, and also recycling operations.

And uh because of those types of uses, uh that particular condition proffer uh came about.

If the uh C Commission does wish to include this in the comprehensive plan, here's basically what it would look like.

Um I don't have the particular proffer.

Mr.

Channer can speak to that uh today.

Uh but the applicant's proffer could be added uh with commission, see commission agrees to be inserted.

And I believe Mr.

Channer will speak to that here shortly.

Uh the recommendation of the planning board is to approve this comprehensive plan amendment petition.

Uh Mr.

Channer, would you like to?

Sure, thank you, Mr.

Smith and uh Mayor Alpert, uh Vice Mayor Trice, Commissioner Bate, fellow commissioners, uh interim manager Bullock and staff, thank you for the audience and the opportunity to speak.

Uh I'll try to be very brief.

I see a clock ticking down in front of me.

Um a couple of things.

First off, everything that you have heard is substantially consistent with what was expected and anticipated when we started this process.

And some of you will have a little bit longer history than others.

But when we started this process, the proposal that we made, which ultimately with your predecessor commission's favor, we were we were selected for negotiations and interim agreement, included the same components that are there today, health care to the north, and some sort of light industrial with a lean in towards logistics, picking packing and shipping kind of operation to the south.

Same thing.

None of our intent, none of our words spoken, no actions have been taken that would suggest otherwise.

To that extent, then you heard mention of uh a proffer being made during the planning board stage, which was anticipated then given the nature of the site.

Uh we some concerns were raised by members of your planning board in defense of quality of life in your community about environmental issues.

And we voluntarily said, hey, if if you're concerned about those things, which we are not thinking about, have not spoken about, don't intend to do, we will respond to you.

That's an easy concern to address, the concern that we have no intent.

How do we address that?

Uh your your your staff and and with uh with the your attorney team suggested that the way we address this would be some kind of structure.

We quickly uh went to the offer of a pro of uh a proffer.

Your process, supported by a very significant effort by your team in negotiating the contract contemplates environmental restrictions, so it is easy for us to modify those environmental restrictions to include this this proffer in the language simply says two particular uses that were objectionable, we would abstain from be willing to abstain from in perpetuity, one of them being rock cement crushing pulverizing.

Okay.

Uh we're we're the we have no intent, no plan to do that, not sure where it came from, but if there's concern about it, that's not anything we've talked about, thought about, or any actions that we have suggested.

The other is uh refuse slash garbage processing or management.

Similarly, not thought about it, have not spoken about it, have no actions that suggested, but if it's a concern, as it was for some of the representatives on your planning board, we offer that up.

Our understanding is that the given the way land use law works, your ability to enforce that within your code, an easement commitment cannot be readily enforced.

And so technically the way for us to put belts and suspenders over the thing we've not talked about, thought about, or intend to do, is to also have this proffer, and so we're willing to do that.

We can get into the technicalities of it if that's necessary in this audience, but I just wanted to make clear that you understood those two things, that everything that you're hearing include in this process was expected and actually programmed into the contract that at the point when we would make sufficient progress, and which we can talk about that, but I don't want to belabor you unless you'd like us to that you would then come and deal with the zoning issue to the southern parcel because that site was significantly down zone in the past for other reasons.

And so that's uh I will stop there and happy to take questions or support the team as the conversation advances.

Okay.

Is is this the place where um Mr.

Fournier, you wanted to add something or you want to do that?

Well, I'll wait till the conclusion of the discussion.

All right on the amendment.

All right.

Do we have anybody signed up to speak?

No mayor.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner Aaron Kotch.

My only question has to do with thank you for the presentation, by the way.

Um my only question has to do with what you just mentioned about the proffer to not crush concrete.

That is my only thing.

And if you're willing to do that, um I think that that's very, very, very important.

And I appreciate that proffer and the willingness to do that and agree to that in perpetuity.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Commissioner Aaron Koch.

And so we we offered it up in the form of a deed restriction.

So there's specific language there, and we're prepared to offer it up in other legal ways that cover all the various loopholes that may exist.

And Mr.

Fournier, you are comfortable with that, and Mr.

Paulzak, you are both comfortable with the language?

Well, yes, there's actually and there's three ways, just the the reference to the deed restriction that was just made initially uh it was thought it would be proposed.

There's an exhibit to the uh purchase and sale agreement that is the declaration of environmental covenants.

And that is supposed to be recorded at closing and apply post-closing, and it sets forth the buyer's continuing site uh rehabilitation obligations under the remedial action plan.

And we were going to insert it in that document, which would require an amendment to the purchase and sale agreement because that's an exhibit.

So we could do it that way, but then there was discussion about inserting the same proffer into first the rezone ordinance and then into this comprehensive plan amendment or it's not in there now, but it could be in all three places.

But if it's in both ordinances, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the exhibit to the agreement that's recorded at closing.

It could be, but it doesn't need to be.

So there's there's really three places you could put this.

Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you so much for your presentation today and your hard work to get this done.

It's been a long time in coming.

So we appreciate that.

Um clearly, Mr.

Smith, there are two chapters of the comprehensive plan that we should look more closely at.

One is the neighborhood, and they're identified in your report.

One is the neighborhood plan, and the other is the future land use plan.

Um the neighborhood plan.

Um the appropriate time to ensure there is buffering in case there is some industrial light industrial that might impact the neighbors in the county who are not city residents, would be at the site plan level, is that correct?

Those would be applied.

And just how however the developer wants to cite everything on the site, you know, if if they know there's something that could impact some of the neighbors, they might move that use more to the west and a little further away from the residents.

And that's not done here, that's done at DRC and site plan level.

Along the way.

Okay.

So you mentioned that there were no residences in the city nearby, but all the single family dwellings were in the county.

And so I wondered if any county residents were invited to the community workshop on February 26th.

Yeah, every property owner within 500 feet of the site would have gotten a notice as well as for the public hearings, Planning Board and City Commission.

So notices were sent out within 500 feet.

How many people attended the community workshop?

There's about half a dozen or so.

More than zero.

Okay.

Thank you.

So working through those two chapters in my mind, I think we've taken care of any concerns that we may have.

Those are my questions for now, Mayor.

Thank you.

Vice Mayor Trace.

Thank you.

I'm I'm really just so excited that we have progressed to this point.

It seems like I see the light at the end of the tunnel and really thrilled about it.

And I am reminded that the initial intent for the whole site was to be providing job opportunities to the community.

So obviously this rezone makes makes sense.

It's almost imperative.

But my concern is obviously the residential areas that, if not are adjacent, but very close by, because obviously just to the north of the northern portion of the site that you plan to buy is residential.

On the other side of the railroad is residential.

So this is probably, you know, this is implementing zone district as opposed to comprehensive plan zoning.

I'm concerned that we make sure that the permitted uses in the zone district that we eventually move to take into consideration the proximity of the residential districts.

And I appreciate the proffers about the environmental issues.

And I suspect that what you were planning to do will not generate excessive noise, but I'm wondering if we could add noise to the proffers.

You know, not and I don't know if you put in a number or you know, just excessive noise, but you know, I'm I'm concerned about noise being generated.

And I don't think that's something that you have intended.

Any thoughts on noise?

Well, in the absence of any proffers that would make it more restrictive, it would come under, of course, the city's noise ordinance, and then there would be a daytime limitation and a nighttime limitation.

And the ordinance that's going to be proposed, hopefully we would be more clear about that, and will depend on inside or outside source sound.

So the noise ordinance may cover the situation adequately.

I I'm I'm just I don't know.

And I don't imagine Mr.

Channers really had the chance to give that any thought prior to right now.

So with the noise ordinance, I'm going to guess that they're not exceptions for certain industrial uses.

I mean, no, ours isn't zone-based.

There's a lot of them that I've looked at that that were zone district-based, but ours is general citywide.

So it isn't dependent on generating or receiving property be in any particular zone district.

Okay.

And and I'm going to be honest, I have no concerns about what you're planning to do with this site.

I'm concerned 30, 40, 50 years from now, you know, when you if and when you sell the land, whoever comes in afterwards say, oh well, we got an industrial zone, we can do whatever we want because it's in the city's zoning code.

So that that's why I'm you know a little bit I I understand Vice Mayor.

And there might be an opportunity to pursue this further or have further discussion.

I don't know what the result will be, but at the time of the rezone, because then you're you're more site-specific with the use restrictions under the zone that's being requested.

Great.

So I'm gonna hope that the when the commission meets on the rezone, that they take that into consideration.

But I'm wholeheartedly in support of what you're proposing today.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The one thing I will add, because it's just isn't in conversation and don't want to belabor the point.

Most of the property to the South, much of the property to the north actually has the zoning that we are targeting.

So from an in from an environmental standpoint, we're changing this particular site because it was at some point in prior years downzoned, but materially we're not changing the composition or the atmosphere of that environment.

Thank you.

All right.

Commissioner Batti.

Uh uh thank you all for the presentation, and thank you, Mr.

Jennifer being here of coming up from Miami.

And I know you'll be turning right back around to go back or what have you, and along with uh Mr.

DuBose as well.

Um I just wanted to ensure the Commission more than anything that, you know, in extensive conversations, you know, lengthy conversations with you know with this group, that they have the the uh best intentions of the property and to give it its best and highest use.

So that's why, you know, we're here today for this.

Um especially, you know, I'm not worried about it going to any type of anything that's gonna that is gonna be a detriment to the community, you know, as it once was or whatever.

Um looking forward to what it is you all are going to bring.

Um it's gonna take a great deal of uh uh massive cleanup.

I know that there was a phase one study done before whatever.

Is there anything um that you could add to that to, you know, apprise us to as of what's happening with the property?

Sure regarding that.

And and actually I think the conversation will come up shortly, but we are preparing to do uh the next level of study, a phase two study, which is part of the uh what is called the site assessment report.

And so there was mention made earlier about the county's encouragement that we coordinate with FDEP.

You y your staff, you know, led by Mr.

Fournier negotiated a specific provision that compels us to commit the entire site, and if they are divided both sites separately to the BISRO Brownfield site rehabilitation process with FDEP.

The northern parcel that fronts Dr.

Martin Luther Kingway is in that process.

We are at the third, fourth stage of that, and that stage includes a phase two study for those who don't know.

You're taking soil samples, testing chemical composition, testing the water, multiple wells observed over a period of time, testing for specific chemicals, and then you have to one, notify the community.

They're community independent community members that are part of a committee as compelled by the State.

You then have to notify the State of what you found, and then you have to after that provide what is called a remediation plan for how you're going to clean it up.

Those steps are necessary in order for you to get, you know, quote unquote the indemnification, so the legal protection to go forward and develop.

And so we are at the stage probably certainly before Thanksgiving, but maybe you know within days, but certainly within weeks, we will be commencing with the SAR process site assessment report, which is the phase two.

The phase one is a paper search.

You search around the area, the phase two, you are actually taking soil samples.

We that's for the northern parcel.

This rezoning for the southern parcel, the part of the reason why we accelerated that process, we could have waited several months later.

We accelerated that process to get to the next stage, which then allows us to do phase one for the southern parcel, which we are talking about right now, and subsequent to that the phase two.

All of none of these processes can be circumvented because we are contractually committed to a state process, and we're also contractually committed to to you, the city as property owner.

Okay.

And I just want to, you know, to apprise the public as well, because you know you get a lot of questions about what's going on with that site, you know, why is it taking so long and so on and so forth.

But especially when when you're talking about the transfer of real estate on in and what have you, um that there's a great deal of uh due diligence.

And this is uh uh an ongoing process with this this property because it's contaminated and it's been that way in derelict for so for decades or what have you.

And uh, you know, I can't beat a dead horse enough about um the run-in of Walmart off of that property that would have provided a a merit of functions to the community.

And I still hear that from people to to this day at their disappointment and the displeasure with with with with that in the community.

I mean, literally, because they know what the economics and the changing of the tax base and so on and so forth that they could have provided in Newtown would be in a totally different place now, or what have you, you know.

Um, but you know, it is it's imperative that that uh this go forward and that you know we get we couldn't even give this damn land away or whatever before.

So I take uh thank you all for your interest in it and taking the initiative to try and uh clean up this land and and and make use of it and and uh give it its best and highest use that would be um of a benefit to the community and in uh help new town in the community to move forward.

So thank you all for your work.

I don't see any other questions.

So um I'm gonna close the public hearing and ask for a motion.

Mr.

Fournier need to say something.

I'll make a motion, Mayor.

He said after that.

After the movement.

Oh no.

I'll make a motion.

Thank you.

Move to adopt ordinance twenty-five-fifty-five eighty-one with site-specific proffers as identified during the conversation.

Second.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Ulrich moved uh approval of uh proposed ordinance number twenty-five fifty-five eighty-one with site specific proffers as discussed during the meeting.

Uh Commissioner Batties seconded.

Is that clear enough for uh the clerk?

I sounds okay to me.

Now if I'm missing something that law at the end of the year, that you know what the site specific profferes are.

Would you like to say them out loud and maybe that would be better?

Yes, fine.

Yeah, I think the site-specific proffer would be um something to the effect of prohibiting processing or recycling uh refuse trash and crushing, breaking, grinding, pulverizing a rocks, concrete, mortar, asphalt, or substantially similar materials.

And that would be in uh your second reading.

You'll f you'll see it there as part of the project.

That's that's what I wanted to say in my motion.

It's not there now, but it will be.

All right, thank you.

Um Commissioner, is any discussion?

Okay.

If you will vote.

And it'd be also the roll call.

Aaron Cutch?

Yes.

Albert?

Yes.

Yes.

Ulrich?

Yes.

Rice.

Yes.

Is that your vote?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Um I do actually I do have a question that has nothing to do with the vote, though.

You're planning to buy the property north.

Great, great.

I think the single property in order to facilitate.

We're not buying any additional property.

So the property that we are contracted to purchase from you is effectively being split into two pieces.

And so, oh, and you're talking about the north of that.

Exactly, exactly.

Exactly.

Okay, Mr.

Fournier.

So this is just a matter of um administration really of the purchase and sale agreement that has come up.

Um pursuant to the second amendment that was approved last May.

You may recall that the site was used by the city as part of the disaster debris management program, and there was storage of storm debris there, which prevented the buyer from doing the um the activity that they needed to do to get this site assessment report that was mentioned prepared.

And this site assessment report pertains to the north parcel because the other change that was made via that amendment was to allow for the possibility that this could proceed on two separate tracks.

So for the North Track, there was a um a due date that was established as 180 days from the date that the city received the site clearance letter from FDP saying we're off the site, you can now use it.

That was received in April.

So the the six months due date for the site assessment report to be submitted for the North Parcel uh was October 21st.

That was not submitted by October 21st.

I want to add to that, though, too, at the time, and this is I think a really a mitigating factor, you have to project these dates out, and you don't know what's going to happen into the future, but we do need a schedule because we have to demonstrate to FDEP if necessary that the rehabilitation has been diligently pursued.

So the protocol that FDEP suggests is that 270 days be allowed for the site assessment report.

That was offered, but Mr.

Channer thought it could be done by October as it is.

We expect it will be done in November next month.

However, I want to follow the contract.

And what the contract says is by October 21st, if that hasn't been submitted, that the city then has 14 days.

And within that 14 days, you can either A, terminate the contract, or B, exercise your reasonable discretion to accord uh more time.

And so I think it's important that some action be taken on the record within that four days.

I think termination is really off the table.

That would be just ludicrous in light of the work that's gone into this and the time.

And I think Ms.

I can speak for Mr.

Appleby and myself, we have no concerns that this buyer isn't willing and able.

Excuse me, to follow through on this.

So what I wanted to do was I have to mention the termination simply because that's in the contract.

If you have a recommended motion that I thought might be easier to just put in writing so that you could see it.

And what I am recommending essentially is that this be deferred, that there doesn't need to be any discussion today about either termination or extension of time because frankly, you don't have enough information actually to do that.

So the motion is to move that the question of whether the purchase and sale agreement between the City of Sarasota and Newtown Gateway should be terminated because the North Parcel site assessment report was not timely submitted, be deferred until the regular City Commission meeting of February 2nd, 2026, and that this item be placed upon the February 2nd, 2026 agenda so that the Commission may decide at that time on a new date for the North Parcel site assessment report submission, or alternatively to terminate the purchase and sale agreement, which as I said is really not a consideration.

I wanted to put this in writing for the city auditor and clerk, and so I thought it would be easier to see.

And I would say we do anticipate that it will be submitted prior to that point, so it may not be on the agenda at all.

But I think in order to have a discussion about what a reasonable extension of time would be, you would need to allow staff that time to get more information to make a recommendation to you.

So that's what I'm recommending.

I make that motion.

Second.

All right.

Commissioner Albright moves the recommended motion by the former city attorney.

Umorry seconded.

Any discussion, Commissioners?

Okay.

Hearing none, if you will please vote.

There you go.

Is that your vote?

Yes.

Thank you all so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Sky.

And thanks for pre-writing that, Mr.

Friends.

Thank you.

That's great.

That would be a good idea.

Okay.

Moving on to new business.

This is a discussion regarding a joint meeting with the Sarasota County Board of County Commissioners and identifying possible topics for discussion.

And I'm going to call upon Commissioner Aheron Koch to make a presentation.

Not really much too much to present, just that, as you all know, we met with the County Commission in March for the first time in eight years, over eight years.

And at the end of that meeting, we had discussed meeting with them on a regular basis once, maybe twice a year.

So I have been weekly.

Asking the interim city manager if we could arrange this.

Encouraging.

Encouraging.

Encouraging.

And that request came with a response that potentially we should have some items to discuss on to submit to the county commission as well.

At our meeting at the conclusion of it, we all appreciated the presentations that were made by the staff from both the city and the county.

But I think everybody also agreed that having an informal portion of the meeting where we could have free discussion was also something we we wanted to entertain.

So I am not proposing that we have the whole meeting laid out and scheduled out and that we not leave room for items that appear or something that came up.

There should be a portion of that that allows for that from both the county and the city, but also some suggestions of items that you all would like to have discussions with.

The county commissioners.

We, you know, we overlap on so many important items.

The smaller ones, not so much, but the big ones, the regional ones.

And so I'll leave that open for discussion or for suggestion.

I have my own, but I'll let you all start.

Encourage you allowed Commissioner Alright.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah I did.

Did you want to say just by way of process I wanted to clarify when I asked the county administrator he said that the commission, the county commission considers all requests for joint meetings at their retreat in December.

So this was the right time to get a letter in and you know just say we'd like a joint meeting and to the extent we can as uh Commissioner Aher and Koch said suggest some recommended topics.

Okay.

All right.

So last year at the meeting I sat between two county commissioners and the three of us agreed that it was a really beneficial meeting and that we should do it I don't know if we said annually but more often than every thirteen years for sure.

I offer up one item for consideration and that is Ted Sperling Park.

Okay.

Vice Mayor Trice Yeah when we get a schedule date I suspect that we will probably come up with some additional items to proposed we discussed just based on timeliness.

But I'm interested in talking about transit issues and you know obviously there's the question about the Bay Bay runner but even reevaluating transit routes based on new large developments especially the ones including affordable housing that are coming out of the ground.

And another potential depending again on when it is to discuss the affordable housing advisory committee whether or not to make that meet jointly or you know be off on our own.

So those are my two for now got a couple that I'm thinking about if they're timely based on when we have the thing.

Okay.

I made a tentative list uh some of the obvious ones I did have Ted Sperling Park I didn't I didn't think of the transit issues.

I think this is a very good suggestion.

I have the stormwater parks and SPAC.

So we've got five potentialists probably more than there would be time for at a meeting but I think we would maybe narrow it down to the most urgent I guess one or two that we could discuss and then you know depending on you know depending on the timing of the meeting what what we need answers on the most at that point.

You know some of the things may be already settled by the time we get there.

All right so what do we need?

Oh I'm sorry Commissioner that's okay.

And I uh had some of those down but in addition to that the discussion about the um criminal court criminal justice center expansion criminal justice center not jail.

I didn't say jail.

Okay.

I just wanted to make sure I was careful with my words.

And then a new one maybe um hog creek.

I don't know if that would involve the county at all or not in the lane of stormwater.

So I don't know if that's a county jurisdictional item or not and then did you say the Bay Park mayor?

Yeah.

I said SPAC.

Okay so then the Bay Park as well.

So those were mine definitely the LEDO or Ted Sperling Park Stormwater.

And do we want to add Marion Anderson and just let an update that could be one of those updated items since it impacts the county residents as well to know what's going on and where we are with that project.

Just as an update I will say that in your backup material you can see there's a lot of back and forth with the county staff on what we have done so far.

Do you think they're sufficiently updated the staff is surely looped in yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Well if somebody asks a question about it during the other portion of it then certainly we can address that.

So I I think it um it should be enough.

More than enough.

Okay.

So um so is the idea we would send all of these potential topics to them, or how would how would we do this?

Well, just an observation just to put it all in one list.

We have Stormwater, Hog Creek, South Leto, Ted Sperling, Bay Park, SPAC, transit routes based on affordable housing, AHAC, and Criminal Justice Center expansion.

I suspect we should probably prioritize those.

And because the county commission may have some they want to talk about.

And unless this is going to be a really long meeting, we might say what's most important.

Right.

So I would may I?

Yeah.

I'm even going to suggest that some of those items are combined items like LEDO and Ted Sperling is one.

Uh it's possible that the SPAC and the Bay Park is one under the the umbrella of the TIFF.

So I again that was even one that I said it's going to depend on timeliness.

A lot of things may be resolved on that before we get around to meeting with them.

So agreed.

And we do have a request in to the county to have a discussion about that and us to make a presentation to the county commission uh on their participation.

So that may be resolved.

We're already recovered under that.

So maybe and also the Ted Sperling Park, isn't that also being already jointly worked on or no?

My impression was it was.

But I'd say it's a it's a discussion item.

I'm not sure it has come to the commission yet.

Right, to ours.

Has it gone to the counties?

Uh yes.

The uh Marine regulation has been introduced to the County Commission, but that's the only piece of it.

The marine regulation that would limit boats within a certain distance of the shore?

Correct.

Okay.

Yep.

Yes.

Well, I would say maybe, you know, the transit issues really isn't one that I don't think that's been on the radar being discussed.

So maybe that would be uh a good one to start talking about.

And I know we're working with them on the storm water.

So what other ones you are thinking?

Um maybe the criminal justice court thing could be on hold since I think they voted to not place it on the referendum in 2026.

I did speak with the county administrator about uh the parking lot uh that we have, which was sort of the idea where it might be.

They do have an interest.

It's not based on my recollection of our discussion.

It's not urgent.

And he asked that we I told him we were open to a discussion about it.

And um he just asked, and we didn't really have any we're just open to a discussion.

I didn't limit it at all.

And he didn't have any uh urgency.

He just asked that we keep the topic open.

So I don't believe there uh a movement on their part is imminent.

And I think they would have to do a referendum in order to uh arrange for the financing.

And I think they voted not to do the referendum, isn't that correct?

Can't remember.

I don't know if I think so.

I think I I I thought I read that in the paper that they voted not to put it on the referendum.

I don't pay as much attention to the county commission as I do the city committee.

Thank you for that.

Well, in in in terms of, I guess for a second topic to offer, transit issues.

Um debating between the stormwater and the parks, as I know we are are working closely with them on the stormwater issues.

Um I don't know if we're working with them.

I know there was a talk about turning the parks over to us.

Is that a discussion we want to have or I think if you recall from your March meeting, there was a discussion about turning stormwater over to the city, and then they rescinded that that movement, uh, that discussion for a year.

And then the um the you mean the remaining parks that are county-owned within the city.

I don't know what.

I don't know to think about that.

No, maybe we shouldn't go there.

Okay.

Um I'm okay with that.

So maybe, you know, certainly maybe um, we're doing a presentation.

I think those we should just leave it maybe at transit issues and that's it.

I I think I I think stormwater should be on the agenda.

It's such a huge thing for us, depending on where they go.

Is that beyond them turning it over, there may be some other stormwater issues we want to talk about.

Okay.

And they do have, by the way, a uh we believe a pretty aggressive plan to dredge uh Philippi Creek anyway.

Perhaps others.

Okay.

So do we need a motion to um for well I think we just need a motion to approve the request.

And do we want to then say and these are the topics that we're going to propose?

I would say these these are ones we would like to propose, and there might be, you know, we're certainly open to others.

Okay.

And also allowing for flexible discussion time as well.

Uh a portion of the meeting where we have you know last-minute things or items that crop up.

Okay, do you want to make the motion?

That would be stormwater, um transit issues and open open discussion.

Is that the three?

Did you want to put parks in there?

Just a an o an overall general parks discussion in there?

No, I think this is probably enough.

We will have there will be business to do on South Leto in terms of they haven't completed that ordinance yet and park rules at a minimum.

But that's up to you guys if you I mean discussions with staff.

The TED Sperling?

That's Burling, correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

I I guess we could say put and potentially TED Sperling, depending on whether that's been the ordinance has only been introduced, it hasn't been acted on.

Okay.

Okay, so then we would uh move to to add uh a request to talk about um some subjects including transit parks, specifically TED sperling.

Yeah, TED Sperling.

Um stormwater.

And also allow for um flexible time for the commission to have um unstructured conversation.

Okay.

Is there a second to that motion?

Second.

All right.

Commissioner Aherncotch uh um made a motion to approve the request to request for a joint meeting with the Sarasota County Board of County Commissioners and identified uh three topics and potentially and a potential open discussion time to be proposed.

With flexibility, I think do you want to add with flexibility as to um any any other topic?

Yes.

Okay.

And Commissioner Ulrich second.

And Commissioner Ulrich seconded that.

Um vote.

Just a second.

Okay.

Thank you.

Is that your vote?

All right.

Passes unanimously.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay.

Item 122 under new business.

This is proposed resolution number 25R 3357, adopting the city's 2025 watershed master plan.

And I'm calling upon the clerk to read the title.

Thank you, Mayor.

Resolution number 25 R through 357.

A resolution of the City Commission of the City of Sarasota, Florida, adopting the city's 2025 watershed master plan, providing for implementation, providing for the reading of this resolution by title only and providing for an effective date.

All right.

I'm calling upon the floodplain specialist, Baltimore and floodplain manager Cahill to make a presentation.

Thank you.

Um Cindy was going to be on the Zoom call.

Who was on the Zoom call?

Cindy Cahill.

Oh, okay.

And then for the record, Alison Christie, General Manager of Development Services.

Nick Baltimore Flood Zen Specialist.

Okay.

If you could speak a little louder and into the microphone, thank you.

Gotcha.

My first time here.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's what I thought.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I think Cindy's going to take it from the top.

Um can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes.

Cindy Kay Hill, Flood Zone Specialist, City of Sarasota.

Um we're here today bring bringing the watershed master plan to you.

Um the purpose of this is to reduce flood insurance and to create flood resiliency for the community.

Uh we started back in 2022 and applied through the Florida Department of Emergency Management FDEM for a grant.

In order to go any higher in our community rating service classifications, we're currently at a class five.

You cannot go any to a higher classification unless you have a watershed master plan.

We currently get a 30% 25% discount for the community on flood insurance policies.

And to go to a class 4 or higher and get a 30%, this plan has to be adopted.

The grant was for 200,009 dollars.

It was a FEMA grant.

They pay 75%.

We did 25%.

Our $50,000 match was done by an in-kind match with the employees' time.

So we pretty much covered all of that with just employees' time.

The grant closeout date is December 30th of 2025.

And we worked with the county and the city.

The county and the city's watershed master plans were developed concurrently.

The city, the county will be going to the commission in December to get their plan adopted.

Okay, Nick.

So Nick Baltimore, flood zone specialist.

The watershed management plan is a roadmap for reducing our flood risk.

That's the primary purpose.

Also, it helps save us money on flood insurance.

It's going to help with improving water quality and guiding sustainable development.

This is not a regulatory document.

It supports the National Flood Insurance Program and our CRS program.

It positions us for future grant eligibility and the CRS classify for rating.

Ultimately, it's going to help us identify large-scale risk factors, model the future conditions, and prioritize infrastructure investments to build long-term resilience.

The process was developed with FAU.

It's been gone and going for a while, as Cindy said.

It's all based on FEMA guidance.

The modeling was conducted using GIS integrated analysis tools that simulates the water flows in a variety of different conditions.

FAU modeled the one-day 10-year, 25-year, and 100 year storm events along with the three-day 25-year rainfall event.

Those are all acceptable by FEMA and CRS based on the latest guidance.

The process identified flooding hotspots and enabled neighborhood neighborhood level analysis to determine recommendations.

The analysis provides guidance and recommendations for long-shore long-range planning and capital improvements.

So the plan covers three major watersheds, Sarasota Bay, Roberts Bay Frontal, and Philippi Creek.

It totals over 82,000 acres studied with about 15,400 inside the city.

Water doesn't stop at jurisdictional lines as we know.

And our coastal geography with barrier islands, buyers and low-lying zones makes us especially vulnerable to coastal surge, rainfall, and backflow.

So this slide shows the breakdowns and how the watersheds are distributed between the city and the county.

For example, the city only makes up 7% of Philippi Creek, but we have some of the most uh flood-prone infrastructure there.

And it's densely developed as well.

So understanding the full region is very important for the city.

So the watershed master plan identifies six major vulnerabilities.

The seawalls are, many of them are aging and below future fill-up flood levels.

The stormwater pipes can allow seawater to backflow during flood events.

Some areas on the inland or mainland, I should say, are you know due to the top of our topography and existing density are just unable to drain.

Water is pushing further inland in places like Whitaker Bayou and Philippi Creek.

Our wetlands and green areas are essential for flood storage.

And some of the stormwater infrastructure is aging and undersides for future demands.

I think we all know that.

So I mean the water master plan is basically just proving that to what we know.

Um these findings drive all the recommendations that follow.

So the conclusions.

Um the watershed master plan brings our modeling regulations and community planning together.

And the near term rainfall and storm surge remain the city's primary flood risks.

Over time, sea level rise will exceed the capacity of existing seawalls and drainage systems.

And the model identifies this uh approximately two to three feet of rise where the seawalls will be overtopped.

A finding reinforced by last year's storm season.

Um the results uh highlight the importance of updated seawall standards and balanced investment in infrastructure and adaptive policy to study to support the city's long-term resilience.

So the recommendations are the technical core of this plan.

Uh FAU identified four recurring issues: low seawalls, backflow, localized flooding, and inland water migration.

The WMP offers long-term strategies that can be phased in as redevelopment occurs or as sea level rise thresholds are reached.

Um we would find you, we would observe these changes and then implement based on what the WMP recommends.

The key recommendations are include raising finished floor elevations with adaptive policies, um, raising seawalls to match those elevations and supporting hybrid and biologically enhanced designs, implementing backflow prevention and a system for monitoring and managing that for the stormwater pipes, um and long-term planning for Whitaker Bayou and Philippi Creek is critical, along with preserving open space for flood storage and water quality.

Um these strategies are designed to evolve with the city's needs.

Um in line with the engineering design criteria manual, um, which includes requirements for lot drainage and minimum seawall elevations to reduce flood risk and of course consider impacts on adjacent properties.

So uh just kind of going back to the timeline.

Uh in 2022, we secured FEMA funding.

Uh it's really mm-FEMA money that's you know distributed by FDEM.

So a little acronyms there.

Uh in 2023, FU FAU, Florida Atlantic University began modeling.

And um in 2024, the draft WMP recommended a six-foot seawall minimum.

Uh the same year, Hurricane Csonvalidated many of the plan's findings.

And earlier this year, we adopted ordinance 25, 5552, allowing seawalls up to 7.27 feet.

It's a clear example of technical planning driving a rural world policy.

And the WMP lays out additional actions that will help our community become more flood resistant and save money in the process.

Okay.

So I'm going to go back to the CRS a little bit.

Um as Cindy said, we're currently a CRS class 5 community, gives us 25% discount on flood insurance.

And we're only 27 points away from class four, um, where the WMP can earn us well over what we need.

Um adopting WMP is necessary, though.

We have to have it adopted and in order to qualify for the grant money to reimburse us and to uh get the class modification done.

Um adding WMP will give us another 30 percent discount, or will give us additional 5% discount to total of 30, once FEMA reviews and approves it.

So in real dollars, the class change would take the average flood insurance savings from 255 dollars per policy to just over 300, and would save the community approximately 1.8 million dollars annually up from 1.5 million now.

So another $300,000 of savings.

Um again, it must be adopted before the December 31st grant close out, and the county we've is using the same FAUs did their um plan as well.

So everything is coordinated, it's the same findings, and they have to get their plan adopted as well.

Um that's on them though.

In closing, uh the WMP is a long-range planning tool.

It's focused on resiliency, risk reduction, and preparing our city for the future while saving money on flood insurance for the community.

Happy to answer any questions.

All right, thank you.

We don't hear anybody signed up to speak, do we?

Okay.

Uh Commissioner questions.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I found that report to be really interesting and really technical.

Um it specifies a very detailed timeline and process.

So is the same detail and technical information required to move from level four to level three?

No.

All we need to do is get more points.

So from here on, until we get to level one, all it is is a matter of chalking up points.

So we've got some things in the work to go ahead and go forward.

So once we get past this WMP hurdle class four prerequisite, we're pretty good for the next couple of classes.

Well, we like points, so you know, keep working away.

Regarding the public outreach planified on pages 42 through 44.

Is there a time frame for that?

The public outreach identified on those pages.

So Cindy can elaborate, but I know we did hold one public outreach meeting in conjunction with the county.

I believe that was back in May.

Cindy.

Yes, it was.

And we do public outreach continuously throughout the year, both the county and the city.

The city does mailings with the utility bills towards the what is it in June, and then we send out mailings again in September for repetitive loss properties.

The website links for FEMA and FDEM and Florida floodplain managers and stuff.

We keep lots of stuff available for them.

We have a couple of magazine racks available throughout the city with some uh literature on them.

So it's an ongoing process.

Right, great.

Thank you.

Um and speaking of the website, um, I was interested in that too.

Um what is the website?

I mean the It's a page on the city's website under the development services tab.

There's a page for um all this flood information in the uh plan is linked on that site.

I gotcha.

Thank you.

My questions.

All right.

Uh Commissioner Heron Koch.

Thank you.

Um this was an amazing uh document and I really appreciate uh the time that everybody put into putting this together.

I had to have a question on the um page 31.

The uh existing land use categories, I found that very, very interesting, but it's from 2020.

Not now, but if you get an updated one of the the breakdown in percentage between residential commercial, open space and vacant, and those um sure can be updated in the last five years or almost six now.

Um whenever you can get that, I would really appreciate an update on those percentages.

Sure.

Really, really, really well done.

Thank you.

All right.

I don't see any other uh questions.

Can we get a motion uh to adopt the resolution?

I'll move to adopt resolution 25R-3357.

Second.

Okay.

Commissioner Ulrich move to adopt resolution number 25 R 3357.

Commissioner Ahern Koch seconded.

If you'll vote, Commissioners, unless there is discussion.

Council um roll call Albert.

Yes.

That's he?

Yes.

Ulrich?

Yes.

Price, yes, Anna Koch.

Yes.

Is that your vote, Commissioners?

All right.

The motion passes unanimously.

Madam Mayor.

J just a comment.

This is one of those things that the public never even thinks about or sees or anything.

And it saves a million bucks a year to our citizens.

It's like a it's just a complying with the federal process can save you money.

Appreciate the staff's work.

Thank you.

Thank you for emphasizing that.

All right.

Moving on to agenda item 123 under new business, and that is the upcoming school convocation of local governments scheduled for January 16th.

And I'm going to call upon long-range planner Smith to make a presentation.

Good afternoon again.

As you said, uh the uh annual school convocation is scheduled for about two months from now, January 16th.

And the school superintendent always sends a letter over asking if the city has any agenda items I'd like to put on for consideration.

And these would be related to school facilities, school planning.

I did put in the agenda request the items that were submitted last year, the six items, would note that number six provide an overview of the interlocal agreement and school staff school district staff's involvement in the review process of local government development plans was covered last year.

The school staff did give an overview of that.

Also in number five, in consultation with area businesses identify educational needs that should be provided or enhanced.

And I think there was a presentation about four or five years ago on that.

But I don't know if there's anything like that for elementary and high schools and stuff.

So it's up to the commission if you have any items you'd like to send over.

I'll draft a letter from Mr.

Bullock to send over to them.

All right, Commissioner Ahercauch.

Thank you very much.

For the millionth year in a row, I would request that they update us about recycling in schools.

The future is there, and if they don't recycle in schools, they're not going to learn it as a secondhand response, and it's something that is a responsible thing to be doing.

So I will request that that also be an item on the agenda, please.

Yeah.

I have a couple of things.

One, I'm pretty sure I was one of the one who pointed out number four before, and I the skilled trades training and apprenticeships, and I think it's worth getting an update on whether they've added occupations, et cetera.

And I'm just as an aside, I did send uh to one of the school board members, there was a recent article uh in the New York Times about uh nonprofit that started a program for high school students and to run a restaurant.

The restaurant was only open, you know, short time in the evening so that the kids could study and do their homework, but they earned money and they ran the thing themselves.

Of course, an adult was monitoring them remotely.

But you know, this is restaurant expertise, and part of that program included financial literacy, uh learning about how to apply for a job, but getting there on time, and that particular program was only nine weeks, and then the kids were helped to get restaurant jobs in regular restaurants, and they get new students coming in, and the students that stayed and got promoted to manager got to train the new students coming in.

So, I mean, in a city where we're restaurant heavy, I would think having this kind of a program in our school system might be beneficial.

Um I had a couple of things about I'm concerned about the, and I'm I've written it down as the threatened takeover of underutilized school buildings by charter operators.

And I had two issues on that.

Um, what will be the effect of school building utilization as these new multi-unit developments come online?

Will a school that's right now maybe underutilized become overutilized, or if it becomes overutilized, will that mean that they will need to rezone the drawing district for that school and send some of the students to the underutilized schools?

So just bear in mind that we are changing a lot of the residential and that might impact the school's plans.

But then the other issue, not understanding what this charter operators wanted to do if they were hoping to use part of an underutilized school building as opposed to taking it all over, and then what does that mean in terms of safety issues?

And if the you know sharing two different entities in a school building, but if they could resolve those safety issues, maybe rather than put an outside uh organization sharing the building, to think about gee, are there local things that would be able to use that building, such as adult ed or a neighborhood mini library in the building, or I was just reading about libraries of things.

So you know, rather than you go out and buy a leaf blower that you could borrow it from the library, and that way, you know, things like that.

So that's a library of things, and they're finding with libraries of things that at least half of the contents is donated.

Think about all the people we have now who are downsizing out of their houses and they don't need these things anymore.

If they donated it to a library, I'm just saying, you know, these are issues that I would like to hear from the school system.

Have they thought about these other alternatives, these other things?

So I know that's hard for you to how am I gonna write that down?

Yeah, that one might be a little difficult.

I think they'll get it.

Go back and review the text.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um one item I have uh was similar to what the vice mayor said.

I worded it a little differently.

Charter school occupancy of public schools with low enrollment is what I said.

Um last year I was quite impressed at the school district's knowledge of how much space they need for five years out, eight years out, that kind of thing.

Um that's related to concurrency, and I'm wondering if we could have an update on that specific to the city of Sarasota.

You know, all the other cities are there too, right?

Maybe they could break it down by city.

And the final thing I wanted to inquire about is related to number four on your agenda request for Mr.

Smith.

Um, as I read that I thought about the star student program.

Isn't that related to, or isn't that with the boys and girls club?

So I'm one and we frequently have difficulty getting star students to participate on our advisory boards.

I'm wondering if there's some way that we could expand that to the school district, to the whole school district, not just boys and girls club.

Yeah, I think the the boys and girls clubs administers it, I think, for the school district.

Oh, they do.

I think that's how it's done.

Well, then we could ask the school district to get more involved in it because we need more star students.

Okay.

In my opinion.

Thank you.

You can consider that.

Okay.

I'll see what I can come up with on that one.

All right.

And and I go back to just, you know, again, the issue of the affordable housing with, you know, coordinating with the school districts if there are properties that you know we mutually could own or work together on to create affordable housing if they're not going to be using it for a school.

I think we've had that on there every year too, so.

Um, all right.

Um I don't think we need a motion on that.

Are we good with an understanding?

I'll come up with something and pass Mr.

Bullet.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

The next item is item 12.4 under new business.

No, that one was removed.

Oh, that's right.

That's the one that went out.

Yeah, that's the one.

Okay.

All right.

So it would be item 12.5 is uh the approval regarding the resilient SRQ letters for the mayor's signature.

And I'm going to call on interim city manager uh Bullock, Public Works Director, Patel, to make the presentation.

Good afternoon.

Mayor, Vice Mayor, City Commissioners.

Today we're presenting the city's resilient SRQ round two funding request.

The purpose of this agenda.

And for the record, Nick Patel, Public Works Project.

The purpose of this agenda item is to say seek commission authorization for the mayor's letter of support to Sarasota County Commission.

This work reflects internal collaboration to advance projects that strengthen flood protection, improve water quality, and support long-term community resilience.

These projects, this project areas were impacted by Hurricane Debbie, Helene, and Milton.

With me today are Sajikami.

I say the engineer.

Andrew Newhouse, Environmental Engineer Public Works.

So overview of the program and summary objectives.

Resilient SRQ is a competitive federal grant program administered by Sarasota County through the Community Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery Program.

The city is serving as a co-applicant and technical lead working collaborative with Sarasota County Stormwater Department to develop and submit high quality applications.

So two major funding categories are under consideration.

The first is uh $30 million for dredging projects scheduled for county commission action on November 18th, and also $57 million for stormwater and infrastructure projects scheduled for county action on December 16th.

This requests are aimed to deliver flood resiliency and water quality projects that provide measurable public safety, environmental and economic benefit for our city of Sarasota residents and businesses.

Successful award will help reduce neighborhood flooding, restore creek and bay capacity, improve water quality, and protect public and private property while reducing long-term recovery and maintenance cost.

We'll turn it over to Mr.

Newhouse to continue the presentation.

Thank you, Nick.

This just starts with the two dredging project examples, which will be going to County Commission November 18th.

Hudson Bayou dredging is approximately 2.9 miles of dredging, and Whitaker is approximately 3.6 miles of dredging.

The rest of the details are there on the slide regarding potential benefits and how many how many properties will be protected and sediment that will be removed.

December 16th, it begins the infrastructure projects, of which we've submitted three.

And this involves different strategies to improve conditions on St.

Armand's.

We do have support from the City of Longboat Key.

This is an evacuation route, so it's important not only for local businesses, but to get residents evacuated off the barrier islands.

And then the final two infrastructure projects for December 16th County Commission is Whitaker Bayou Resiliency, which there's several locations that have been identified in several studies, including the watershed master plan, which you just reviewed, as well as Sarasota Bay Master Plan have identified hot areas that need improvements for flood mitigation, and there's also water quality improvements that will reduce will reduce nutrients going into Sarasota Bay, which will help water quality conditions.

It involves areas in Philippi Creek watershed and Harbreakers, as well as Sarasota Memorial Hospital area, which similarly have been identified as flood-prone areas, and also because of the large impervious service, there they need improvement on water quality concerns.

And the next steps, this just summarizes that we're asking for approximately 82 million in resilient SRQ funds.

We do have we're working to get 10 million secured from Federal funds with the U.S.

Army Corps of Engineers, and then we do have a small local match.

This talks about the amount of total residence and structures and property that will be secured and protected.

And we are just seeking the mayor's approval and signature to back us up on these projects to the county commission.

So with that um open up for any questions or comments.

Commissioner Aherncott.

Thank you.

Thank you for this.

So I wasn't I was unsure a little bit about the amounts being requested for all the projects.

And I guess that speaks to the letter.

In the letter, um you don't say the amount that you are asking for, do you?

Yeah, it we we don't specifically spell that out, but it they are in the applications that are already submitted to Sarah County through the resonance SRQ projects.

But if you want me to kind of high-level provide the cost, I can do that.

I mean no, I I sort of got that from the presentation we just had now, and I I was trying to cobble it all together.

So is it 80 million from the 80 or 82 million from the 87 that they have?

Um it's 82 million total request.

That's includes all the matches and all that, including the Army Corps funding.

So the whole thing.

What's the request of the county though?

What's just the request from the county from there?

I think they have 87 million.

They set aside money for Philippi Creek, and then you know, in your grid here, they have 87 million, 57 million and 30 million, which makes 87 million.

So to go back to the presentation, there's two pots of money.

There's 57 million, those are the infrastructure projects, and those are St.

Armand's Whitaker Stormwater Project as well as the Sarasota stormwater projects.

And then there's the dredgen piece, which is 30 million, and that's the Whitaker Bayou Dredgen as well as the Hudson Bay Dredgin.

Right, right.

And so for the dredger projects, we're asking roughly about 20 million out of that piece, since we're matching about close to 10 million with the U.S.

Army Corps potential appropriation that we're that we will find out after the year.

And then the other uh projects uh out of the infrastructure, it's I believe um there's three projects on that, and the project total is um for St.

Armand's is about 25 million, and we're matching like close to half a million on that one.

The Whitaker Bayou were we're asking for 15.9 million, and for Sarasota Stormwater, we're asking for 6.74 million.

So, 6.

6.7.

6.7 million.

Okay.

Um then um in the letter you do talk about the match, right?

I read this a while ago, or no?

Or is that not necessary in that letter?

That's not necessary.

It's in the application, but the two matches we're doing is specifically tied to the Hudson Bayou, and there's line item of the CIP for Hudson Bayou, and we're matching close to about a million dollars on that one, and that's coming through the SARTAX penny.

All right, you say that here in the letter.

It says the city's already committed a million in the in local surtax matches.

That's in the U.S.

And then the Whitaker Bayou Dredgen, even it's the U.S.

Army Corps funding that we're we're working on with the Federal appropriation, and that's close to about 10 million dollars.

And then the other piece is the St.

Armand's, and we're matching about 0.48 million, and that's a line item in the CIP for St.

Armand's complete streets.

Okay.

Okay.

Um uh you know, we could use these funds, and these projects are not uh capricious at all.

So I'm really in major support of this.

I'm sure the other commissioners are as well.

I I mean I don't know.

We'll see what they say.

But um, you know, should the Commission approve these letters?

Is there anything you need from us in addition to these letters to help this application?

It's a lot, and it's a lot of their total buckets, and I'm sure they're going to have a lot of requests for funds.

So I don't know if you need something from us.

I I mean I'm putting myself out there.

I don't know the other commissioners.

I'm not going to speak for them, but um if you need anything else from us, oh and I would just note put the new address on there, that ringling boulevard address is no longer valid.

So, Madam Mayor and Commissioners, I think that uh first this is a formal request that goes to the county, follows their process precisely.

Um we have uh significant hope that the two dredging projects will get funded or at least heavily funded.

The um infrastructure projects are subject to a lot of competition.

Um I think for us, if someone were to ask what's most important, you pretty much have to say St.

Armand's, uh I I think.

So in your discussions with uh county commissioners, to the extent that you are having them, and this topic would come up or you might raise it, um I I think emphasizing the two dredging projects, because that is a bucket of dredging funds.

It's not uh subject to all the other things.

I specifically placed it in dredging, and these are dredging projects.

But beyond that, St.

Armand's is really a place we need to put a lot of emphasis, and as you know, we're just in the beginning stages of uh of an exercise to look into the future at St.

Armand's, you know, sort of a visioning long-term planning exercise, and stormwater will be a central component of that, along with a bunch of other things, but uh we have to get the stormwater there in better shape than we've had it in order to come up with those more resilient plans that we have and allow them to work.

Um I just have one other thing I want to do.

Okay, go ahead.

Uh four minutes.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Wilk.

Um let's suppose we wave a magic wand and we get all this and it's wonderful.

What's the timeline on accomplishing very specifically the Whitaker Bayou dredging, for example?

So the dredging project, you know, we're thinking design and permitting about two years, you know, and then probably a year and a half to complete the project.

So I'm thinking roughly about four years to manage it.

And would that include the infrastructure as well?

Infrastructure can happen a little bit quicker because we are not getting into the waterway.

I mean, we're talking about close to about three years for the infrastructure, but dredging you're looking at four to five years based on permitting, how quickly we can get permitting.

But those can happen concurrently, right?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Okay.

And it would that be the same for um Hudson Bayou?

Absolutely, yes.

Okay.

Same as dredging project.

Okay.

So but and those two could happen concurrently.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Um and then St.

Armand's.

Okay.

So St.

Armand's, I am estimating about same about four to five years, you know, and the reason is just because there's so many entities involved, you just not only have the DEP Army Corps, but you also have uh FDOT that's in the mix of this, as well as county and city.

So there's a lot of different components to that, and that can take a little bit longer.

Okay.

So about four or five years for all three of these.

Yes, that's correct.

And they can happen all three concurrently.

Yes, they can.

Wouldn't that be wonderful?

All right.

Um I I only have one quick question that probably I'm just not knowing what's going on.

In the letter, it looked like with the numbers that were printed like 7,340 or 5,050, that the the um comma key wasn't working or something.

Or is that how you are supposed to put it in there without that?

We we can get that corrected.

Okay.

Yeah.

I figured you would, but I was like, maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe that's how it's supposed to look.

I don't know.

All right, we have one person signed up to speak before we uh vote, Commissioners.

Bob Kelly?

And just to be sure to identify yourself and if you're a city resident, which I know you are by this, but I'll let you say it.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh I'm Bob Kelly.

I am a resident of uh St.

Armand's Circle and the uh and the key, and I'm also on the board of the St.

Armand's uh residents association.

Uh I'll be very brief because I just want to reinforce everything that's been said here in the last couple of minutes.

I apologize for being very casually dressed, but I bought these from uh from uh a wonderful store that just reopened three weeks ago by the name of Tommy Bahama.

They have a nice restaurant upstairs.

But there's a real point of this, and that is to say here we are over a year after the big storms last year, and only 80 stores of 140 are reopened.

Part of it is well, it's like 90 percent due to resiliency issues.

It's also true that it's riskier to open a business on the circle because we are not resilient enough.

So I just want to reinforce, in addition to everything that you put in your letter, we're a hundred percent uh supportive.

Our boards agree, everyone agrees we have two and a half million people that visit us every year.

We have all we are a super important evacuation route, and we'll do everything we can to do a great job for you when this happens.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

And not to mention St.

Armand's Circle is a huge draw for our tourists and residents.

Um Commissioners any other discussion or can we do a motion?

Uh I'll move, Mayor, um, that the Commission approve for Mayor Alpert's signature on letters to Dr.

Joe Nunder, ahead of the City Com County Commission's resilient SRQ agenda.

Second.

All right.

Uh Commissioner Ulrich moved approval of Mayor of Mayor Albert's signature on letters to Dr.

Joe Nunder, ahead of the county commission's resilient SRQ agenda.

Commissioner Back to you seconded.

Again, to discussion.

Yes, just add to the December 16th item the commas and changing the address on both.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

If you will vote, Commissioners.

Is that your vote?

Yes, it is.

Yes, all right.

It passes unanimously.

Thank thank you all.

Um we have citizens' input.

Do we have anybody else signed up to speak for this thing?

Okay.

Then uh remarks of Commissioners.

Commissioner Ulrich.

Thank you.

Um Commissioners, you might recall that at our last meeting I told you about the Florida League of Cities Committee I'm on for taxation and finance, and that the committee was focusing and developing a policy statement related to Advilurum taxes.

Since then, we've received what I'll call a toolkit from the Florida League of Cities, and it contains a video, you may have received it as well.