Good morning.

We'll call today's Housing Urban Development and Zoning Committee meeting some order.

Madam Clerk, please call the road.

Autumn and Cone.

Alderwoman Sweitzer.

President.

Audible woman Keith.

Vice Chair Sonier.

Present.

Alderman Browning.

Present.

Alderman Aldridge.

Chair Clark Hubbard.

Here.

Altum and Cone.

Auto Woman Keith.

Otterman Aldrich.

We have four print and we have a quorum.

All right.

With that, I'll accept a motion to approve the minutes from Tuesday, January 13th, 2026.

So moved.

Second.

It was moved by Vice Chair Sany and seconded by Alderman Browning that we approve the minutes from Tuesday, January 13th, 2026.

Madam Clark, please call the row.

I'm sorry.

We approving the minutes from January 13th, 2026.

That's the wrong day.

We've approved those already.

Okay, so it should be 27th.

Yes.

Okay.

Um we withdraw my motion.

Withdraw the second.

The motions have been withdrawn.

The second has been withdrawn.

I'll accept a motion to approve the minutes from January 27th, 2026.

So moved.

Second.

It's been moved by Vice Chair Sign Yay and executed by Otterman Browning that we uh approve the minutes from January 27th, 2026.

Madam Clark, please call the road.

Other and cohn.

Audible Ms Weitzer.

Aye.

Audible McKeith.

Vice Chair Sonier.

Aye.

Altaman Browning.

Aye.

Otterman Aldrich.

Chair Clark Howard.

Aye.

Other and cohn.

Audownoman Keith.

Altaman Aldrich, we have four I votes.

All right.

Successfully approved the minutes.

Is uh Alder Woman Thais online.

She is not.

Okay.

Is anyone here from Board Bill 119?

Okay.

We'll just go ahead just to keep the agenda moving and recognize Alderman Devotee for Board Bill 129.

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for hearing us this morning with respect to Board Bill 129, which uh approves and adopts a sketch plan that was previously reviewed and approved by the planning commission back in November of 2025.

We're here today to ask for your favorable consideration of this particular bill.

I think it's important to note out uh to give a little bit of context that uh what this particular planned unit development does is propose the building of 78 single family attached townhomes in groups of three and four in the hill neighborhood, uh right in the uh I guess it would be the the southeastern edge of the neighborhood.

Uh importantly, this particular development replaces the former Hubert Wheeler State School at 5701 uh Wilson.

Uh I think it's essential to note that that particular school closed in 1995.

Uh it left a campus of about six or seven buildings, which were vacant and unused for now 30 plus years.

Uh so they're torn down.

Uh the purpose of me saying this is this is a major plan moving forward to add uh family space, family dwellings into the neighborhood.

Uh I think it is also an excellent example of collaboration, communication, and revision between a developer and the city of St.

Louis as well neighborhood.

Uh I do have here today to talk more specifically about planned unit developments in this particular issue.

Uh James Fischer from the Planning and Urban Uh Design Agency.

Uh James and his crew, uh including Miriam Keller were involved in this since before I came into office.

And what I'd like to do, if it's okay with Madam Chair, is turn the dais over to Mr.

Fister so that he can provide some education to you about planned unit developments and this project.

Thank you, Alderman.

Thank you, committee.

Thank you, Chairon.

Great to see you all.

It's a treat to walk down here.

Uh let's make sure my presentation.

Oh, beautiful.

I do know how to work a laptop.

I thought I knew how to work.

There we go.

Are we going?

Aha.

Thank you all.

Thank you for your patience.

So, as stated, my name is James Fister.

I'm with the planning and urban design agency.

I just wanted to give a little bit of background about what a planned unit development district is, some context about the project, uh, and then uh turn it over to our the developers if you have any questions uh from them.

So a planned unit development district is a zoning tool.

It sort of operates as an overlay district, uh, but it is processed like a standard rezoning.

Um it exists to provide some added flexibility to development that may not be adjusted through our existing zoning code.

As some of you know, and as us at planning and zoning are familiar, uh our zoning code is pretty old and pretty inflexible.

So the PUD has been a tool over the past decades to uh provide the opportunity and flexibility for more modern style and mixed-use developments that wouldn't fit perfectly within any of our zoning districts.

Uh the PUD also encourages site consolidation, creates a pathway for mixed-use development, allows for changes that may occur in building technologies and market demand.

Pardon me, and provide for the development of property while protecting site conditions and the future users of the site.

There are some examples of planned unit developments from the recent past.

Uh the most recent visible one is the Veterans Community Project on North Grand.

This is a use and a layout that is not really envisioned by our old zoning code.

So this zoning tool allowed the project to move forward.

There are also plenty of examples of smaller residential PUDs uh across our city.

Some of the many more recent ones are in the France Park, Hyde Park or um a high point dog town neighborhoods.

This is an example of one just off McCausland.

It's called the Dog Town Walk PUD.

Now uh approving a PUD is a three-step process.

The first includes the planning commission to approve a rough sketch plan, which uh iterates the site design and also all of the intended uses and entitlements on the parcel.

Once that is approved by the planning commission, it goes to the Board of Alderman.

Once passed as ordinance, it the development returns one more time to the planning commission for final development approval.

At this point, once approved by the planning commission, the developer can apply for building permits and no additional zoning review necessary.

Let's talk about the site uh for a second.

Uh as stated, this is one large parcel currently.

It's called 5701 Wilson Avenue on City Block 4022.

It's vacant.

Uh and recently uh the developers have cleared the site, so it's current the former school on the site has been demolished.

Um quick look at the aerial.

Just off Interstate 44 by Hampton.

A little bit of details about the proposed development that will comply with the uh PUD.

The developer is going to construct 78 single-family attached town homes in 20 different buildings arranged around a roughly U-shaped parking lot.

The site will include 120 surface parking spaces and open space amenities, including a small uh dog park.

One of the residential buildings, as you can see on the bottom, that would be the south uh east corner of the lot.

One of the buildings will face Wilson Avenue.

It will actually match some of the single-family residences across Wilson Avenue and along Wilson Avenue along the east, sort of stretching the feel of the block uh to and through the development.

The eastern entrance of the development will meet an intersection, a pre-existing intersection at Wilson Avenue and January Avenue.

So that entrances and exits from that uh portion of the development will meet an existing intersection with that uh has stop signs.

Uh the planning department on November 12th approved the sketch plan.

That's why we're here today.

Just wanted to give you a little more context about how the planning commission reaches its decision.

In our zoning code, there are three criteria or conditions that the PUD application must meet in order to be approved by the planning commission.

They are that the values of the buildings and characters of the property adjacent to the area included in the plan will not be adversely affected, that the proposed development is consistent with the intent and purposes of the zoning code, and that the proposed development is consistent with previously adopted plans, including the comprehensive plan of the city of St.

Louis.

So let's talk a little bit about the zoning and land use for this parcel.

Right now, and until action is taken, this parcel is zoned K, which is the unrestricted district, is very permissive.

Lots of sometimes troubling uses, things that you don't necessarily want next to occupied houses, could be allowed here.

This is a sort of hangover from decades ago when the area had clay mines, and actually, this parcel once served as a sort of you know informal landfill, so that that uh zoning has persisted through that.

Even when it became a state school, the zoning was not updated.

So it still exists as K.

One reason why action must be taken in order to get residences on this lot is because while K is very permissive, it explicitly prohibits residential dwellings of any kind.

This parcel is immediately adjacent to occupied housing in the two or the two-family dwelling dwelling district.

That's B.

As stated, some type of zoning action would need to be taken in order to permit housing.

Uh the developer and the planning department and the zoning administration were trying to figure out what the best way forward was, potentially a straight rezoning, but the age of our code, uh the inflexibility of it, there was no zoning district that would work perfectly to facilitate this style and the scale of development.

Thus, the plan unit development district is necessary.

Let's look to the strategic land use plan, which is just uh celebrating its first anniversary later this week.

So we've been operating with a new strategic land use plan for a year.

Uh it'll get it'll get much more fun once we get a new zoning code to pair with it.

But the land use designation for this parcel on Wilson Avenue is high-intensity neighborhood.

This is an area that is meant to be primarily residential, be dense, be walkable.

Uh we want them to be located in places where there is or will be access to good transit and other.

Many, many types of housing are appropriate within this district.

Uh parking is generally discouraged to the front or to the in front of buildings or to the side of buildings.

Um, there's been some question about why is this parcel higher intensity?

Uh, a couple of reasons.

Uh, based on some uh feedback from the community throughout the strategic land use plan process, considering its access to the interstate, robust bus lines, uh, and frankly, the size of the parcel.

It can handle a lot of units if it were to become residential, which is what we're working on.

So the underlying use and the scale and the density of the proposed uh development are perfectly aligned with this designation.

It's our hope that a use like this may encourage other properties in the area to transition to a more friendly mix of uses.

Uh, the the big keynote here is that uh this PUD and the uses here would be dramatically better aligned with the high-intensity residential designation than the uses currently allowed in the K district.

Other broad goals of the sloop include uh creating new housing options that meet the diversity of the community and reactivating vacant parcels.

Uh on November 12th, when the planning commission heard the sketch plan, they approved the uh this first part of the PUD by a vote of nine A's to two nays.

There was an extended discussion uh at the planning commission, one of the longest of my time being there, but it was it was a worthwhile uh and lively discussion.

Uh there was lots of conversation around the site design, parking, wayfinding within and without the uh development area, water management, traffic patterns.

Um commissioners after the uh at the end of the meeting added three conditions to the PUD.

Uh and as iterated in the draft board bill and will appear in the ordinance, uh, these conditions must appear in the development plan that comes back to the planning commission at a later date.

Those three conditions are firstly to construct a sidewalk along Wilson Avenue that extends the length of development.

Currently, as the parcel exists, the sidewalk terminates at the parcel boundaries and it doesn't continue.

So we're asking the developer to build that sidewalk so that it continues that sense of stretching the neighborhood all the way to and through the edge of the development.

Two, we require that the developer present a plan for consistent accessibility from all units to all amenities on site and to the right of way.

I'll show a drawing on the next slide.

And third, uh that the project includes screening or landscaping between the site and the residences to the east.

So nice to see that already in their plans.

The red on the uh right side of the screen is where uh we want to see landscaping or some type of screening protecting the residents on Barraccourt and Wilson Avenue from this project.

And then I apologize, my colors might not be super easy to see, but I just drew a couple of arrows on the northern end of the parking lot.

Uh we want to ensure that you know anybody who is living in these units has clear uh and available and accessible access to the amenities on the parcel and to the right of way.

So making sure that there are curb cuts where appropriate, so that someone who might be moving with uh some assisted technology wouldn't have to take the sidewalk all the way down to Wilson and go around in order to go all the way up to the uh dog park in the uh northwest of the parcel.

Um now I'm gonna I'm gonna pause uh I guess unless uh any members of the committee have questions for me, but I would also turn it over to our developers if they wanted to provide a little more uh context about what the project's going to entail.

Adam and Browning Uh, thank you, Mr.

Fister.

I really appreciate the detail here, and uh it looks like you've been very thoughtful about the conditions as well, uh, especially that really appreciate the thought to accessibility.

Um I I understand this is built being built on an old landfill, sounds like, or something similar.

Um things might come up as it's being developed uh just through you know, soil testing or anything else that they might figure out, it might not be able to build in the way that this is drawn out today.

Um is there any uh flexibility by the developer or the planning commission to modify the site plans after the adoption of uh PUD bill?

Well, I will I will say that uh any true amendments to the site plan would have to go back to the planning commission.

Um and considering the lengthy discussion and the consensus reached with the planning commission, I'm not sure there's an appetite for that, but there is a pathway for it.

Um it can be uh sent back to the planning commission.

Uh you mentioned the fact that it used to be an informal landfill.

There are some site constraints related to that.

Um, the site has been cleaned to a residential use.

Um, the Missouri Department of Conservation or Missouri Department of Natural Resources, pardon me, uh, and the developer worked in tandem to clean the site to be appropriate for single-family attached townhomes.

Uh, but some uh necessities in the construction type is sort of leading to some site design constraints.

Uh the there's going to be significant peering that needs to be poured for these units so that uh they can get you know down to buildable soil.

Um so yeah, there was a lot of discussion along those lines.

Why is this site design you know necessary here?

And a lot of it had to do with um geological conditions on the site.

All right, thank you.

Adam with Lither.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, members of the committee, and thank you for being here.

Uh, I am on planning commission, but I had just had a baby about a month before, so I missed the meeting and discussion.

Uh I would have made it longer.

That's my uh my problem.

But um, I really appreciate the explanation about the um the sloop and how this parcel fits in with their zoning plans.

Um I did notice that um I believe there's a sidewalk in front of all of the townhomes.

Okay.

And then I wondered with uh sloop saying that parking spaces should be in the back of buildings.

It seems that this parking lot is in front of all the buildings, and I just wanted to understand that.

Yeah, that was a a little bit of a hang up in conversations between staff and the developer and at the planning commission as well.

Um the uh the sloop is not as fine-toothed of regular regulatory document as the Zoom code is.

We're in a uh tricky regulatory period where we have an old sloop and we have a new zoning code.

So the you know, very fine-toothed definitions of where the sloop discourages or prohibits.

The sloop can't really prohibit things.

What it can is inform the zoning code.

Um, there's a lot of discussion about uh orientation of the parking.

Uh, one thing that came out of the discussion between the planning department staff and the developer is no parking between any structures and the public right of way, which is Wilson Avenue, and uh the original site plans for the project had all of the buildings facing in, face the surface parking.

Uh, we were able to, and the developer was happily uh happy to meet this uh to turn one of the buildings that actually meets the rest of the residential block.

Um, so those are minor sloop victories, but we're we're happy that the developer was working with us on that.

Okay.

Uh, and 128 parking spaces.

Is it for each of these units still zoned that each unit would have to have only one spot?

Or why was it almost two per dwelling unit?

In a planned unit development district, we could state or we could put whatever parking requirement we want on it.

It doesn't default to the underlying zoning.

Um we are not putting any parking requirements or restrictions uh on in this PUD, uh, but it was a major point of discussion between the developer and the community to ensure that there was enough parking for not just the residents but potential visitors.

Um and that that came through, you know, a long long discussion period, and that's what they ended up as being uh viable for both the residents and for the community to support uh this initiative.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate it a lot.

All right, with that.

I think we'll go ahead and move forward.

You say do you have some other speakers?

Maybe the developers may your slides are just perfect.

Yep.

After you state your name, can you raise your right hand for me?

Sure.

Jay Kylerman.

And the company.

Uh McBride Homes.

Okay, great.

You swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes.

Thank you, please for see.

So hello, all my name is Jay Kylerman.

I'm CEO of McBride Homes.

I'm also a resident of the city and actually a resident of the Hill neighborhood in particular.

Just a little bit of background about McBride.

I mean, we're locally owned and operated.

We've created neighborhoods for 80 years within St.

Louis, and some of our most recent experience is another hill project where we did 58 single family homes and 28 town homes.

I'm very much in favor of this project and obviously support it moving forward.

I'm very excited here to talk about it today.

This project we've been working on since 2023.

And um, during the presentation, you heard about all the challenges, and this was uh an old school, it was vacated, um, owned by the state.

The state put out an RFP, we submitted and won the RFP, and then the next 18 months after that, we worked with the state and DNR to really work through the site challenges, the soil conditions, the environmental, and we got everybody to an agreement to allow residential use on this site.

Um, so we worked through a lot of soil issues, compaction issues, we've spent resources and time um working through the required cleanup, and we've demolished the hazardous building, removing the asbestos, and we alleviated all the legal activity occurring around the property with the building being down.

Our true intent for this project when we started this project was to take an take an eye store for the community in the neighborhood, um, one that I live in and reinvigorate life into this site with a neighborhood that we can all uh present brand new homes in the city of St.

Louis.

I mean, we took we truly took a chance by closing on this property, but I mean, with perseverance and a lot of hard work and time and commitment, I think we have a beautiful product to show here today.

The overall site does have challenges.

I mean, you have highway 44 to the north, public storage to the west, um, you have industrial buildings to the south, and we have residences east.

I mean, this is the definition of a transition piece in the planning world by working with city staff, residents, the aldermen, the planning commission, and others.

I mean, I think we have a great um a plan of 78 new homes, nice brick front elevations, new sidewalks, amenities, 25% of our site is common ground, significant buffering from the highway, and there will be an hoa here to also maintain lawns landscaping and make sure this community looks good for the long term as well.

So I think this is a great this is a great story of success for the neighborhood, for the city, for everybody working there together.

So I would just say um thank you to all, and then um obviously we hope for your approval on this project.

So if you guys have any questions, we're happy to answer them as well.

Does anyone have any questions?

Thanks.

Thank you for being here and for presenting.

I would love to just see more pictures of the site.

If you don't have them with you in this presentation, I would uh just if anyone could email them to me.

It's really cool to see this kind of development happening in the city.

So thank you for coming and doing it.

Yeah, we can send something to you.

Absolutely.

Thanks.

Other man Browning.

Uh yeah, I also just want to say thank you.

It's it looks like an exciting development.

It's great to be able to turn vacant properties into something productive.

And I continue to be amazed by the hill uh as a neighborhood because it has never been a neighborhood that's been shy about adding more housing so that it can keep families.

And so I appreciate you working with the community and just turning this into something that will hopefully be a great addition to the neighborhood.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Is Audeman Keys online?

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I do have a public speaker whose hand is raised.

Well, we're gonna get to the public speaking after I make sure all of their speakers are finished.

Okay.

Automan devotee.

Madam Chair, that is the extent of the the speakers that we had lined up to to speak with the committee.

Okay.

Is everybody in the room that was here to speak uh on behalf of this board bill?

Are they signed up?

Okay.

Is anyone in the room that wants to speak on this?

Okay.

The person online, then we can go ahead and move forward to that person.

Hi everyone, thank you for allowing me to join.

My name is Jennifer Giannino, and I am the president of the Hill Neighborhood Association and a lifelong resident of the Hill.

Ms.

Janita, how are you doing, Miss Janito?

I'm well.

I didn't want to interrupt you when you started your comments.

I just wouldn't need you to raise your right hand and I can thank you.

You swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Please receive.

Sure.

So like I was saying, I'm the president of the Hill Neighborhood Association, and I've lived on the Hill my entire life.

I um have worked with Jake and Matt, um, devotee on this project.

And um the McBride team has been very um transparent with us in their plans.

They've not only come to our board meeting, but they've spoken twice to our neighborhood association meetings um last year with their plans, their um uh transparency.

They've at the first meeting, then it got some feedback.

They made a few tweaks to that and presented it at the second meeting.

So, as an association, we are very happy for this build.

We're happy that it's gonna bring more residents into the city, which is what we love and want for our beloved St.

Louis.

So we are supportive of this project as well.

Thank you so much.

Yes, of course.

All right.

All right, we don't have any additional speakers online.

Okay.

Uh go through the committee now with questions.

Uh Audible Miss Weisser.

Thank you so much for being here.

And I've already been able to answer asked all my questions.

So thank you.

All right.

Other man Browning.

Uh again, thank you for uh this plan uh to the planning department and to uh McBride for uh all this project.

I'm happy to support Vice Chair Saye.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

Um I had the opportunity to speak with Alderman Devotee about this bill uh pretty extensively prior to as a service on the planning commission.

Um we did indeed have a very robust conversation, and there were even some very passionate community members that were present at that planning commission meeting, um, which I always enjoy.

I always like to see when folks take their time to come talk to us, whether they're supporting or opposing the fact that you're not passively letting things happen in your community.

Um, and I just noted that Ottoman Devotee was very familiar with um both the support and the critiques, and he spoke to them as well as the developers.

I think there's a little, you know, sometimes can be some natural tension, but this project does seem um you know to me to be something that would be an immensity to a community that would be able to attract residents that could um be beneficial to the makeup of our city and to the makeup of the community.

So I don't really I've gotten to get all my questions out on the planning commission in prior to, so I don't have any questions, but I wanted to make sure that I just stated that that type of engagement um did happen prior to and just kind of note some of the conversation here since I know uh my other planning commission member was not able to be there at that meeting.

Thank you.

All right, just asking one more time.

There's no members online, no members of the committee.

Uh yes, madam chair.

I uh I I guess in closing, uh of course I'm here to ask for your favorable consideration of board bill one twenty-nine.

Uh I do want to point out one last time my how impressed I have been with McBride from day one in presenting this particular plan.

The the work in approaching the community started before I was alder.

When I was sitting on the neighborhood association.

And after I became older, uh as early as late May, we sat down in my conference room along with uh uh multiple folks from the city.

Uh we have had at least a half dozen conversations involving the community, the planning and zoning uh folks, as well as the developer.

And this plan is the result of a tremendous amount of communication, tweaking in response.

Um with reference to that planning commission meeting, the hill is America's last little Italy.

There are some folks that are extremely passionate about the neighborhood.

Parking was an issue.

But I think this plan best addresses all of those concerns, and it is what we can accomplish when we sit down in the same room when we listen to the each other, and it's it's going to create a place for more folks to come into the community.

So again, thank you for your attention and I do ask for your favorable consideration, passage of Board Billy Nine.

Uh I make a motion that we pass Board Bill Twenty Nine with the due pass recommendation.

Second.

It was moved by Vice Chair Sanyay and seconded by Ottoman Browning that we pass Board Bill 129 with a due pass recommendation.

Madam Clark, please call the road.

Autumn and Cone.

Audible Sweiser.

Aye.

Audible man Keys.

Vice Chair Sonier, aye.

Autumn Browning.

Aye.

Autumn Aldrich.

Chair Clark Hubbard.

Aye.

Autumn and Cone.

Auto Woman Keys.

Autumn and Aldrich.

We have four eye votes.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

Congratulations, Ottoman Devotee.

With that, we'll move forward with Ottoman Browning for Board Bill.

So you were just me.

While we get the presentation going up, I'll just go ahead and get started.

Um, so Board Billy Three is redevelopment plan uh for uh the engineers club on Wendell.

This is something that the planning commission approved a couple months ago uh and is aiming to move a site that has been vacant for the last ten years or so uh along and into getting a development done here.

Uh what exists here right now is a building uh that uh is the Engineers Club of St.

Louis, but is no longer used by the club.

Uh who I have behind me here is a about a dozen engineers uh from uh firms all across St.

Louis who are part of the club.

Um I know that we have a few of them here to speak today about um just what they've been dealing with with the building and their inability to get anything going there.

Um when we get the presentation up, I'll have a little bit of a uh timeline to show you just exactly what we've attempted so far, uh, just to show that this is something that does need some help getting done.

Um, especially because it's uh a non profit right now.

So the city is getting zero dollars, the schools are getting zero dollars from this site.

Uh and that's really a loss because if we had been able to get something done here, we would be able to produce more money for all these entities and uh really create some activity to the site.

Uh so what this bill is going to do is it's going to both blight the uh building and then also allow um ten years at ninety percent tax abatement.

Again, just a reminder, zero dollars right now.

So uh not only do you get the assessed value of the site, but you again get an additional ten percent right off the bat.

Uh and then it would offer fifteen years, uh another five years at fifty percent if uh they included an affordable element.

So what we're trying to to incentivize here is the development of housing.

Uh this is in a location that we know has a demand for housing, but again, uh, given the conditions we're not been able to get it done.

Uh so that I'm gonna try to see if we can get the presentation up.

If we can't make it big, we can just go with the small version.

That was too small.

Right.

Well, this is just all the slides at once, but we'll we'll work with it.

Okay, so as you can see, there's a picture of the building site right here.

Um it's uh the current condition of the building.

Uh as I mentioned, this building was built uh a while ago in 1959, served as the engineers club uh in St.

Louis.

It's a nonprofit, sat vacant for over a decade and currently pays uh no money in taxes.

Um they've had a number of concerns with this building, including uh a weakened roof, uh foundation that's cracking.

Uh I've toured the building myself and seen uh just the conditions they're dealing with, they're doing the best they can, but uh the costs are adding up.

The sump pumps need a need replacement, the walls have mold.

Uh it's got exterior brick and slate facade that uh are crumbling as well.

And there's an old gasoline storage tank buried on the ground uh underground that presents environmental concerns and will be something that needs to be considered uh in this redevelopment.

Uh the timeline that we've seen here since 2019.

So for the past seven years, uh, we've been attempting to do something with this property.

Uh they put it up for sale in 2019.

They had a contract with Graystar in 2020, got that got terminated in 2021.

They had a new contract then with Lox Clipping.

That got that got approved in 2022 by the preservation board, but then it got terminated in 2023.

I think we're all glad that didn't end up happening.

Uh but then DMG came in uh with the same plan, then that fell through.

Then later in 2024, there's a contract with Bob Dunn uh for another nonprofit.

Uh that would not have been a gain for the city, but it would have put the land to use, and yet that didn't work out either.

So it's been a real challenge to get this moving.

And in the meantime, the engineers club, which is uh is a wonderful thing in the city.

Uh it's a club of some of the most expert uh people in our city that do fantastic work, some of which work for our city, like people from I know there's some folks from Lockmiller.

Uh, we work with them all the time on street projects and and and many more.

Uh and so we'd love to be able to not only turn this into a productive site for the city, but also uh to be able to get this club out from under uh this building.

So the L SLDC and LCRA recommendations is 90% abatement on this for 10 years.

There's not a current developer named.

So this will uh just simply be dangling a carrot above this to try to get the project moving.

Uh and then again, additional five years of abatement at 50% if they uh include some affordable housing.

Uh so that is all I have.

Um I do have SLDC here to answer any questions if you have any questions about the mechanism of how this works.

Uh and then uh we also just have a few speakers.

Don't worry, not all of these people are gonna speak.

So we weren't gonna aren't gonna be here all afternoon.

Uh but uh we did want to let a few of them speak to the thing.

So happy to answer any questions.

I was looking forward to hearing that speak.

Does anybody have any questions?

Are you all okay with moving forward with speakers?

Everybody there's signed up.

Can you raise your right hand?

Sorry to tell the hell of truth and nothing but the truth.

All right.

She's gonna call uh the clerk will go about at least they call you all up on it.

Rebecca Leslie.

Close.

Uh good morning, madam chair, members of the committee.

My name is Rebecca Losley.

I'm the president of the Engineers Club of St.

Louis.

I want to say thank you to Alderman Browning for the presentation.

The club's been around over a hundred years.

We have more than 500 members here in St.

Louis region, and um, and we work at many of the companies that are here headquartered in the city of St.

Louis.

Engineers Club, as Michael Browning mentioned.

We've been actively marketing to sell our buildings since 2019.

We no longer use this facility.

It has numerous catastrophic failures that Alderman Browning indicated, leaking, foundation, roof, excessive mold in the basement, the vacant buildings experienced graffiti, break-ins, vandalism on the property.

We've witnessed evidence of drug use, paraphernalia, and unhoused individuals.

Currently, we have ongoing costs associated with the building ownership, including insurance, utilities, maintenance.

The club cannot continue to incur these costs indefinitely, and this will lead to further building and property decline.

Building is no longer serving the community well, and this location is ideally seated for redevelopment.

We are asking for your support for board bill number one two three to more prop to move this property forward with a use that better serves the city of St.

Louis.

Thank you.

Nicole Young.

Good afternoon.

My name is Nicole Young.

I previously served as the City of St.

Louis Planning Commission appointee by Mayor Lyda Crusin as the advising engineer to the commission.

Specifically assigned to be more critical of blighting studies and tax abatement.

I'm also a past president of the Engineers Club of St.

Louis, an institution that has supported the city's engineering and infrastructure leadership for more than a century.

I'm here today to urge you to approve Board Bill 123.

The building at 44359 on Lindell is not viable in its current condition.

It has major structural deficiencies, significant water intrusion, and extensive damage to critical building systems.

It's been vacant for six years and has had a decade of work put into it prior to that.

It's proven to be incapable of active activation due to these conditions.

Continued inaction carries real and increasing consequences.

The longer this structure remains standing, the greater the public safety risk, the higher the exposure to liability, the more redevelopment costs escalate.

At the same time, the city continues to lose tax revenue while the surrounding corridor bears the burden of blight and disinvestment.

The tax abatement before you not only is not a subsidy for functional asset, they are pragmatic response to an infeasible one.

Demolition re mediation and redevelopment at this site requires significant upfront capital, but the private market will not deploy without risk sharing.

Without incentives, this property will remain stalled indefinitely.

The proposed redevelopment of the site is a multi-story residential facility, further strengthens the case for approval.

Residential development provides long-term stability, provides population retention, and generates consistent property earnings and tax revenue.

It replaces a long vacant structure with a building that contributes to safety, activity, and neighborhood vitality.

Approval of this bill allows the city to convert a long-standing liability into a productive asset, eliminating a dangerous structure, restoring economic value to the site, and creating long-term benefits to the surrounding community.

I urge you to support the proposed board bill 123 so the site can fully move forward.

Dan State in opposition.

Hi everybody, Dan Pate, uh Ward 6.

Um I had I mean, I realize this building needs to be sold and dealt with and brought to a productive use.

Uh I think the pre-approving 90% for 10 years in this area is a mistake.

And I would I would just like to call into question um some of the thinking behind that.

It seems like, and it might be weird, but it seems like the engineers club could uh advertise this as a joint venture with uh zero upfront payment from a potential developer and allow them to JV it on the on the back end for part of the upside um while offering some engineering work, you know, for a discounted rate, maybe or as your contribution to the to the end goal of it.

Either way, it it seems like pre-approving incentives for this right now, then um doesn't allow ordinance 71620 to come into play when SLPS gives its up or down on a development proposal report.

You know, it um without having a separate meeting set here at the HUDS committee after uh a formal proposal is is presented, then you know SLPS doesn't get to weigh in, which is the whole point of that law at a public meeting.

Um LCRA is the is the firm or the the body that recommends the amount of and duration of the abatement.

Um however, they're not really a uh a neutral arbiter of that.

They make more money if this gets abatement, a larger project of as many units as this is probably going to be.

They get paid a percentage of the the total project volume.

And if there's a sales tax exemption, there's ext there's a lot of money that changes hands on.

Um after that, the LCRA then awards by on an annual basis 2.5 million just you know this fiscal year to SLDC, who SLDC is the final uh sign off on the uh minority women business entity numbers.

Um 3765 Lindell, right down the road got approved for their abatement 10 years at 90 percent after only meeting one of the MWBE goals out of I think eight categories.

It was it it was a pretty dismal failure, and they still got the abatement.

So I'm I guess what I'm asking is um more oversight from the housing urban development zoning committee on SLDC and LCRA and the amounts of abatements, and um please force them to come back to the board in a public meeting in a public format to approve the actual development plan and prove that it needs 90% at 10 years, or or the extra if there's um low-income housing uh in there.

Oh, I'm trying to remember if I forgot anything.

I probably did.

Thank you very much.

Okay, Curtis Amber.

Good afternoon or morning still.

Um I'm speaking today not only as a member of the engineers club, but also a resident of the city, actually within the historical boundaries of the uh Central West End.

Um, not which is Forest Park Southeast, but uh within those historical boundaries.

Um, some of the others have uh spoken on the condition of the club, but I want to focus on something slightly different, which is what this being bill means practical and measurable terms for the city.

As Michael Browning stated, we're a nonprofit, so zero property taxes are being generated from this site.

And that's zero for the schools, for public safety, for baby services.

I fully support this bill, and I think one thing is important to acknowledge is that time itself is a cost.

We have lost out on tremendous amount of money.

Every year the site remains vacant, or as Lumbo is a year of lost revenue for the city.

There is no property tax being generated, no economic activity, no ability for the club to plan for its future while uncertainty remains.

To put some scale around that, had the property sold when it was under contract for 5.7 million, the city would have been collecting on an order of 150,000 per year in property taxes, even before there's a shovel in the ground.

Had that building been built, we'd probably be looking at over $600,000 per year.

From the club side, simple reinvestment of those proceeds would have been putting up probably $200,000 in our pocket every year.

That's lost revenue besides what we've been paying out every month for carrying the loan on the building and utilities.

From a development standpoint, certainty matters.

Once the property is under contract, capital is tied up, consultants are engaged, and everything else or architectural costs.

The prolonged uncertainty and timelines with trying to get everything approved.

We need to pencil out well-intentioned projects because they don't pencil out otherwise.

It's also important to be clear about highest and best use.

Given a site's location and surrounding development pattern, the highest best use of the property is multifamily housing.

Unfortunately, conditions, configuration of the existing building, make adaptive reuse extremely difficult and cost prohibitive.

Reserving this structure significantly constrains the city and limits the site's ability to support a financially available project.

Even under the current list price, and assuming 90% abatement, the city would still be collecting on the order of 100,000 per year in taxes and substantially more once the site is redebuilt.

This is not about eliminating revenue, it's about sharing starting the clock instead of letting value sit idle.

For the engineers club, continued delay compresses our financial runway and limits our ability to reinvest in our mission and initiatives.

A predictable and timely process benefits everyone involved.

The city begins collecting revenue sooner.

Developers can move forward with confidence, and the club gains certainty and needs to respond needs to responsibly plan its feature.

That's the lens through which I'm asking you to view this bill.

Not as a giveaway, but as a practical step to unlock the value for the city, the central west end, and the engineering.

Adaptive reuse works best for large and industrial and warehouse buildings with flexible layouts.

This building was not designed for that kind of reuse and its configuration condition make adaptation cost prohibitive.

Allowing demolition is what enables the site to be used at its highest and best use.

And to counteract one of his points, we did reach out to one of the developers and said, hey, give us the money to pay off our loan, and we'll walk you hand in hand through the painting.

Yeah, we were we offered one of the developers, hey, pay us, you know, give us enough money to pay off our loan, and we'll that will give us a plenty of runway, and they would not even do that.

So we've offered things to make this happen.

Our final speaker, Melissa Hoffmeister.

Good morning.

Thank you for allowing me to speak today.

Uh my name is Mosa Hoffmeister.

I am speaking on behalf of the Engineers Club in support of the bill.

I urge you to support the bill.

Um it is important for the club's viability long term.

Um I'm also a resident of the city.

Um I'm probably speaking more from the heart of the resident of the city in support of this.

Um I'm not gonna reiterate everything everybody said about the condition of the building and the engineering center being one of the oldest engineering organizations in the country.

Um, but I'm gonna speak from my personal perspective um and how important the engineering club is to the community.

So uh early in my career, I'm a woman in engineering, and it wasn't the easiest to find your footing.

Um, and I really found that at the Engineers Club, it really played a critical role in helping me navigate through those early challenges and develop a strong and meaningful career path.

Um, I currently have a sex successful career um at a engineering company here um in the city of St.

Louis, and we have 300 employees.

Um St.

Louis really grows exceptional engineering talent.

And one of the missions of the Engineers Club is to keep that talent here in St.

Louis.

And what happens is we grow that talent, and they come from SLU and Wash U and from Missouri ST and all these amazing universities, and then they leave us and they go somewhere else.

And so one of the missions of the Engineers Club is to keep them here in St.

Louis, keep them living here in the city, keep them having jobs here in the city.

Um in order to do that, we really need the club.

Club helps do that.

Unfortunately, the current condition of the building is working against us in that mission.

Um the properties become overgrown and deteriorated, and it's become attracted to crime, um, despite being located in one of the city's greatest neighborhoods, in my opinion, the Central West End.

Um over the holiday, I drove past the building with my daughter.

Um, she's four years old.

And I was hoping to show her a place that was once instrumental in my career, and instead uh we pulled in the parking lot, and I saw a mattress discarded out front.

And so we turned around and drove off.

And as both a city resident and a longtime member and former president of a club, that was really disheartening.

Um, the property has tremendous potential and could be a meaningful asset to the city.

Um the potential property taxes that could be coming off of this property.

Um in its current state, though, it's not serving the city, the neighborhood, or the engineering community.

Um, frankly, it's an embarrassment to the city and to the club in its current state.

Um, if the property were sold, um, it's really the land that's the value.

Nobody wants the building.

We've already talked about the condition of the building.

It can't be saved.

Um it could really support the club's mission.

Uh, we need the funding.

Uh, every year, I don't know if anybody said this yet, but we give away over 20,000 in scholarships.

Um Ms.

Hoffmeyer, there's your time.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

That's all.

Just thank you for letting me speak and considering supporting the bill.

Thank you.

That was our final speaker.

Okay, no one's on live.

No one's online.

Okay, Adam and Brownie.

Let's start off with questions.

Audible Miss Weisser.

Thank you so much.

Uh, thank you, Alderman Browning.

Always agree to we've talked about this a bunch.

Um, I know it's an important parcel for you and something that you've been working on really hard.

Uh, can you speak a little bit more about the um tax payment package that was put together and why those numbers were chosen.

Yeah, and um I I'm sure the SLDC can answer a few more of those questions because um this is something that went through their process.

So it's hard when you don't have a developer in mind, uh, but you cannot get to that point where you have a developer in mind when we've had the difficulties with this parcel that we've had.

Uh no developer gets far enough down the road in order to uh start working with SLDC to figure out how to fund a project because there's immediate things that that cause them to back off, such as the building's placement, the building's condition.

Um we've had proposals that have considered building around it on that parking lot you see in that image, but uh it just will not pencil with what you can do on that property.

Uh and so we asked SLDC to put together a package to uh not only allow the building to be demolished if necessary.

Uh if someone can find a way to do an adaptive reuse, that'd be great.

We'd love to see it, but no one's been able to do that yet.

Uh and uh to be able to uh build on the site.

Uh again, understanding that this is a nonprofit, uh, that there's there's zero dollars in taxes coming in.

So to the point that SLPS may not be able to weigh in.

Um I don't know what there is for them to weigh in on because they're currently not getting any benefit.

Uh and so like this is an automatic win for the city and SLPS if we're able to get this done.

Uh but happy to let uh what our our experts share a little more.

Uh good afternoon, Paul Weatherford, SLDC.

Um it's the uh it's LCRA's position uh that the multiple uh failed attempts at redevelopment of this site uh is uh demonstrative of the markets and ability to to support redevelopment and uh necessitates uh public support.

Um so that's why we uh worked with Alder Alderman Browning um to put this uh lighting study and redevelopment plan together.

Um I will point out that the uh 10 years at 90% for market rate development or the 10 years at 90%, followed by an additional five years at 50% for a uh development that supports affordable housing is the maximum.

So any development proposal would still need to um go through our community benefits analysis and and fiscal analysis to determine the um the level of incentive that would be offered.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

That was uh big part of the question as well.

Just this isn't a guaranteed piece, but it is a kind of a package that could be considered for the parcel and that any developer that comes forward still has to go through the process and meet all the conditions that are so important.

And at that time, based on ordinance and law, we the city would have to notify SLPS of that proposal by law, they do not.

That's the one uh caveat on this one that we don't have to notify SLPS on that.

Okay, but they would still come before the various bodies for approval.

We'd go in front of L CRA.

We would score on the community scorecard, um, and that would determine the amount of standards we would support.

Okay.

Um that's that's a really good point.

Um, it's really important to pay attention to those hearings and you know know what's in front of L CRA at any given time.

Um I think that uh you know one of the things that gets brought up is with tax abatements.

Um, you know, you want to consider the the whole package of what would go to SLPS, not just that nothing goes now, because it is important to think about how this could benefit them further.

Um, but this, like you said, every development would be scored based on that community scorecard, which I think is of a pretty good way of looking at these projects.

No, I I totally support that.

Yeah, and the other issue we have is not only we have we do have had in the past a tax abatement issue.

When I first started, we had over 3,000 parcels on uh received tax abatement.

Now we have 1,500.

Um we also have over 15,000 tax exempt parcels here in the city of St.

Louis.

Right.

So we have a tax exempt slash vacancy issue here in the city, more so than tax abatement issue.

Right.

And we're I would like to we would like to activate these vacant tax exempt properties from back and tax.

And I appreciate the recent work of the assessor's office to work to identify parcels that are being held as tax exempt, even though their current use is not for a tax exem purpose.

And I think that is a you know hand-in-hand um project that we have to do.

It's up to us too, as aldermen in our own wards if we're aware of vacant parcels and that are owned by a nonprofit to investigate and see if they should be brought up to the assessor for that kind of review.

Um there's a lot to talk about with vacant buildings, isn't there?

Uh well, I appreciate this.

I'm I'm excited to see this project move forward because it's it is a parcel that needs development and is in you know prime real estate, as they say.

And I I hope that, and I know that the there'll be thoughtful discussion about any project that goes forward, but it does seem pretty clear from you know, if you can't develop this parcel in this area for that many years, it probably does need some help.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, madam chair, members of the committee.

Um I had a question about page four of the exhibit.

It says that sidewalks shall be repaired or replaced, including any necessary upgrades to make existing sidewalks ADA compliant.

Um so I just wanted to check in and see is this saying that the sidewalks is the owner's responsibility, or where is this who is accountable for this?

Uh yeah, that would be the responsibility of the developer.

So this is kind of just put into the legislation to make sure that that is known that that's an expected expectation.

Yeah, if there if there were sidewalk um repairing or replacing up to ADA standard would be a requirement of the developer.

Yeah.

And is it in practice?

Is that um this might be more for Ottoman Browning?

Um, but is that in practice, is that kind of up to the ALDE to check in and see if the property owner is maintaining sidewalks, or is that considered a duty at SODC?

I'm just wondering about the enforceability of it in practice.

Well, you can be sure that I'll be checking on that.

But um I I know that SLDC also has a compliance team that will set everything that people are required to do under tax abatements, including compliance with MBE requirements and all that.

So I I know that they've they definitely follow up on the requirements that are in these buildings.

And and I would just add any um projects that are in within redevelopment areas, SLDC also has to approve building permit.

Um so uh if a developer proposed um found conditions on the sidewalk that needed improvement, but we're proposing to make those improvements, uh SLDC would not uh issue issue the permit, we would not approve of the permit.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um and then I know we're saying that this is 10 years and 90 percent, but then I also see language that says for years 11 through 15 of the chapter 353 tax abatement period, not to exceed 50% of the Avaler and real estate taxes that would be due if there were no tax abatement.

So I just want to make sure.

So the bill legislation itself is for 90% for 10 years, and then is there a reassessment that happens at the 11-year period, or what is 11-15 year look like?

Uh no, so we we're proposing um two different uh amounts of tax abatement uh based on the type of redevelopment project.

So if it's uh uh say a multifamily residential market rate rents, um only the maximum of 10 years at 90% would would be approved.

Uh, if there was an affordability component to the uh the rents within the the redevelopment, uh then the project could be eligible for 10 years at 90%, followed by an additional five years uh at 50% of abatement.

So that that base is set at the beginning of the abatement period.

So it's basically a scaled abatement time period.

Yes, and that's uh the standard that we use for um uh life tech projects.

Okay, and um this is just a general question.

I don't know who this would be for, but I do know that it seems like the property has been tax exempt since 1959.

So I just wonder to the engineers or the owners of the building, are there active plans so that at year 15 you guys are prepared to perhaps continue the building without continued abatement or just any conversations along those lines?

I know 15 years is a long time period, but since 1959 does seem pretty long, and I'm just curious if there are conversations happening about how to be in a position where there might not be any or any tax incentive at that point.

Um I'm not quite understanding the question.

So the engineers wouldn't remain in ownership of this if they're able to sell it.

This is um meant to provide some predictability for a buyer uh to take control of the property and and turn it into something else.

So um it's it's not gonna pay taxes until it switches hands uh into a for-profit uh developer because um it the current owner is is a nonprofit, and so they're not gonna have to pay taxes.

Is that does that answer the question?

Or yeah, I think maybe it would have to be a whoever would get the property that would have to answer the question because I'm more so just noting that this particular area has been abated for quite it just for some time in 15 years is a while too, which obviously there are times and places for everything.

Um but I was just curious, and I know that it's a nonprofit, so there's not necessarily property taxes now, but I was just curious about if we might see someone in front of us again in 15 years or whoever might be sitting in the seat in 15 years seeking an abatement again at that point.

Yeah, so uh it's it's L C R A NSL DC's policy to offer the the 10 years at 90, followed by five years at 50 for Lite Tech projects uh to align with the the LITEC award.

Um, and then after that 15 years, um in sort of the interest of preserving affordability, um, you know, the the developer seeks uh additional li tech.

Um, you know, we could revisit uh abatement at that time.

Okay, but currently there is no currently this property is waived from property taxes at this moment.

Yes, it is currently tax exempt uh because it's owned by a nonprofit.

Thank you.

That completes my questions.

Uh I don't have any additional questions.

I'm just wanna look, thank you all for showing up today on behalf of the advocacy.

It's personally inspiring to me, and I hope that this same kind of advocacy and understanding can show up when we try to use these tools in other areas of the cities to understanding that if there's challenges to do something like this on Lindle, then you know about the challenges.

We don't have to even continue to talk about the challenges as we move in other areas of the city.

So again, thank you all for being here.

And Alton Burn Browning, um, you're welcome to close.

Thank you, Chairwoman.

Um, you made an excellent point there, which is that you know, when we struggle to develop these vacant lots in any neighborhood, uh, but the fact that we're having trouble getting this one going is testament to just the difficulty that the entire city often has with these types of things.

I hope this is a tool that my colleagues look at using in their awards because this is an excellent tool to move, especially properties that are currently paying no taxes.

Um you ever seen one of those maps of St.

Louis and seen all the properties that just don't pay us anything, and yet they cost us city services, they cost us economic activity.

And uh, so what we have here is a vacancy problem, but we also have uh a nonprofit issue as well.

Uh, and so it is not to knock nonprofits, right?

They they do wonderful things for our cities, but there's too many properties right now do not have any productive value for the city or the schools.

And so I know that uh we can get to a point where we do see something wonderful here.

We see activity on this site again.

I know Rosati Kane is gonna be excited to see something go uh happen uh next to them.

And uh that you know that's a place where you know there's young students going to school and they uh need to have an environment that uh is not only active but but a healthy one as well.

So we are doing what we can to uh facilitate the development of this site.

And um I appreciate you all asking good questions today uh and just ask for your favorable consideration.

All right, I'll accept the motion.

Motion for board bill one.

I move to pass board bill 123 with the due pass recommendation second.

It was moved by Alder Women's Swisser and seconded by Vice Chair Saye that we move board bill 123 with a due pass recommendation.

Madam Clerk, please call Alderman Cohn.

Alder Woman Switzer.

Aye.

Alder Woman Keys.

Vice Chair Sonier, aye.

Alderman Browning, aye.

Alderman Aldridge.

Chair Clark Hubbard.

Aye.

Alderman Cone.

Alder Woman Keys.

Alderman Aldridge.

We have four I votes.

All right, that that you successfully passed the Board Bill 123 out with a do pass recommendation.

Congratulations.

Thank you all.

Uh is Alder Woman's highest online.

I know that she requested to be last, but I will go ahead and yield my time if she is online and ready to go.

Okay, great.

All right.

Ottawoman's highest, you're recognized on Board Bill 119.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

First of all, thank you for allowing me to be last.

I don't know if you all know it, but I had surgery on my foot in January, beginning of January, and I'm um still under doctor's orders.

So I'm probably not even supposed to be online, but I don't know how not to work.

Um Board Bill 119 is a uh seeks to approve a chapter 99 redevelopment plan and blighting study for 811 North Broadway.

This area is in the Baden area.

Um, Baden, it reminds me of an area such as Harmon, Missouri.

It should be a target destination place.

It's such a beautiful place.

It should have uh restaurants and and event centers all over it.

I've been very privileged to be able to represent this area for the last couple of years and got to know the uh can-do spirit of the people who are there.

Um this is one of um three uh event centers that are on Broadway between Baden and Brittany.

And Baden has struggled um in the last few years with how to get proper development.

Um grocery stores closed up, everything that opened up, closed up, but um there is still a group of people who believe in it, and they're putting their own money into making things happening.

Um, this particular property is up for 10-year tax abatement.

Um, and it the property was bought for uh $20,000, and the developer is the owners, and they're putting in $75,000 of their own money to make this happen.

Um, they've already started to do some of the work.

It is uh spectacular and it looks really great.

Um, I didn't have an uh information about event centers of that size, and now I've learned so much for the from the people.

The owner is a Miss Tiana Broadway and her husband.

She could not be here today because her her uh aunt died last night.

But if you will look on page, right, I guess it's in exhibit G or Exhibit F, the behind exhibit G in the board bill at Exhibit F, you will see pictures of what the building looked like that she purchased.

Um, and that she she has been uh tirelessly working on.

Um it's taking us a minute to get this tax abatement to fruition, mainly because I'm not a tax abatement person, and so they had to convince me that this was something that should be uh have tax abatement, and they did.

Um so I seek uh your uh approval and your recommendation for a dupass recommendation to pass out uh Board Bill 119 with the do pass recommendation.

And um also Mr.

Zachary Wilson is there in person who can answer any of your detailed questions you may have.

And if any that I can answer, I will also stay online to answer questions.

Okay, thank you.

Um, Mr.

Wisland, did you have anything you wanted to offer?

Uh the only thing I would offer is this was an LRA building before.

Uh Mr.

and Mrs.

Broadway purchased it and uh it's not only $75,000 in, but there's SWEC equity in it also.

So we're very uh supportive of the project.

All right.

Uh Audible Miss Sweiser, we'll go forward question.

I'm sorry, are there uh is there anyone online to speak?

Other Audres is on now.

I'm sorry to speak on behalf of Board Bill 119.

Oh no.

Okay.

Is there anyone in the room to speak on behalf of Board 19?

Okay.

All right, Altawan Sweisser.

Thank you.

I am not incredibly familiar with this with this project area.

Uh, how long have you been working on this?

Um, Alder Owen.

And thank you for being here to present.

So until two years ago, I didn't represent Baden.

I knew about Baden because Nancy Weber used to uh represent Baton, then Dion Flowers, and then Lisa Middlebrook.

Uh the lady has been working on the project before I even got there and acquiring the LRA building.

And if you look at what the building looked like, and you see what they've been working on the first floor now, and I'm sorry, I didn't bring pictures because I thought she was gonna come.

It's beautiful space.

Okay.

They put a as uh Mr.

Wilson says, they put sweat equity, it's a premier space.

They have what they're doing is buying these small buildings and rehabbing them, not for large events, but for small events, birthday parties, uh, family gatherings and things like that.

And I have been working and talking to her for the last couple of years about this.

Um, as I said, there are two other properties.

Um she's sandwiched in between, but on each corner of that block and Broadway, 8100 block of Broadway, there are two other event spaces, and they're all working together.

And then they have a daycare down the street.

And so it's a lot of black entrepreneurs who are buying up Baden and putting their sweat equity and money into making sure Baden doesn't go away.

And Baden might be comparable in some ways to Crondolette or something like that.

It's just on the other end of the city.

And we're working hard on those areas.

Those are our areas.

Right.

Um it's near the workhouse.

You can actually cross over Hall Street and over Broadway, and you will be at the workhouse in the tow lot.

Okay.

Yeah, I was looking up the address and looking at the event um center while you were talking, and it looks like a really neat space, and the whole strip there um has so much potential.

It's so cool to see that.

Um we're thinking a lot about South South Broadway, as I like to call it in my area as well.

So it's neat to see the kind of work happening in the other end of the city as well.

So thank you for bringing this forward, and I I look forward to supporting it.

I want to say they convinced me.

I didn't know anything.

I learned a lot of things, okay.

I um I'm much more represent a much more uh near to the southern part of North St.

Louis.

So to go to Baden was like going to a different country almost because it was German.

And when you cross up under North Broadway, there's some German um language signs that say welcome.

But um they have such determination that now they have turned me around to be a cheerleader, and I will do whatever I can to help them uh be entrepreneurs and get these things.

And anybody who's willing to put their own money at the tune of 75, 80, 100,000 and sweat equity, I want to help them do that.

Thank you.

Alderman Brownie.

Thank you, Alder Woman.

Um, it's good to see you and uh wish you in wishing you a speedy recovery.

And um also very sorry to hear about um the the person who's who's trying to redevelop this mother.

I uh there's just a lot of tragedy going around these days.

Um I I just want to say I appreciate you working with with your community uh and especially stepping in uh to something you were unfamiliar with and doing your best to learn about it and uh and then helping them move this along.

I I agree with you that it's great when people put their own money into their communities, and that's exactly what we need more of.

So I just want to voice my support for this.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Saye Thank you, Chairwoman, members of the committee.

Um I don't really have any questions.

I think I understand what's being done here.

I just wanted to note um probably to Mr.

Wilson that the packet is just a bit outdated.

Um, like section B, um, subsection one, um, includes the city's sustainability plan, but we it's very, very it's an obsolete one from the 2000s.

We adopted a sustainability plan in 2025.

So it is very minor.

I understand the intention of the bill.

I just wanted to note that some of the it does appear that some of the exhibits and things are outdated and um maybe perhaps should be updated.

Yes, uh, our department works with the planning department, so we're working on a format on what what form they would like to us include on blind studies in the future.

So I mean, in this case, you want to probably have the most updated sustainability study attached to it.

I think that's I mean it's very minor, not necessarily subsequential to the bill, but they just adopted a new form of sustainability plan that um in 2000 in 2025.

So I would imagine that would be the correct one to put here.

Correct, yes.

Thank you.

All right, Alderman Aldridge, I see you have uh joined us.

Did you have any can I reply to Auter Woman uh Sonia?

Absolutely possible.

Absolutely.

Okay, thank you.

So Auter Woman Sonnye, if you would like that to happen, I can do an amendment on the floor and work with Mr.

Wilson to try to uh include that if that's something that you need to happen.

I plan on voting for either way, but I would prefer if our exhibits were updated and up to par with the most recent plans that we have as a city.

I do.

Okay, so I will get I will find out because I couldn't take notes fast enough to say which sections, but I'll find out which sections and then I will um after the second reading when we get ready to perfect it.

Um hopefully we'll have the correct uh plan attached to this bill and it'll be a floor amendment.

Okay, and I can send you an email that has the section in the link to the newest updated plan there.

All right, thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Alderman Aldridge.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

And just hearing the last one, if uh if we're Aldwoman Sanye saying is just exhibit, uh glad you brought that up.

I don't know if we necessarily need an amendment because it's just an exhibit to the bill is not changing the bill, but I do get what you say on Aldwomen Sunday updating it.

Uh I support this project.

Um, I'm glad all woman was able to work with Ms.

Broadway, as Broadway's a proud resident of 14th.

And I know she talks very highly about Bates.

I know uh she was really excited to join.

I think they was working on a Bates business district, but she continues to try to get me up there, I think to this space.

And the she's just really uh glad to see that like Bates is really like really coming along.

So I appreciate the Alder Woman for uh you know talking with her and learning and figuring out what the project is and supporting the 10 toes down, uh be able to help that part of the neighborhood.

So I definitely support it.

So thank you.

All right, with that out of woman's high is your welcome to close.

First, I want to say to the owner from the 14th, please come and see it.

They're beautiful.

It's not just hers, it's two other I was thinking it was something else.

And so sometimes you have your mindset one way, and then when I got there, I just fell in love with and I uh it's not just the the event centers, it's the uh daycare, it's the uh hair place, it's the entrepreneurship.

That's what I would like to see happening in many parts of our city, young people who have bought their own properties and are putting money back into it and um need a little help.

So I've been doing rehab for a lot, a lot of years.

So I've been able to help them, not understanding a project at first, but now that I do, I am all the way in because I was that person 30 something years ago, and you need somebody to help you to do that.

And when we were trying to do that, people kept telling us we couldn't do it, and then we became House of the Month, and then everybody said, Oh, how did you do that?

So um, just learning about her.

She is a very wonderful person, um, and really believes in herself, and so do the other people.

So you should come up to Baden because I've become a cheerleader of Baiton now.

It's at the other end of the uh uh city, but it is a part of the city.

And I had some one of the people who was foreclosed the workhouse said, Oh, Baton, oh, that's too far.

That's that's just like way too far.

And I said, You've never been there because it actually takes me about 10 minutes.

I go through the cemetery, which is also part of my ward, and when you cut through that cemetery and hit Broadway, there's a big German sign that says welcome to Baden in German.

And it's got like I said, they got a lot of spirit and a lot of people doing a lot of good things, and mostly young African American people doing it.

Um, and Baton was German, so they're doing the switch.

But if the city would put just a little of the money that they have put in downtown and central quarter, this could be a target event place to go because the hills are beautiful, the houses are beautiful, and the people are wonderful.

Thank you.

Um I'm sorry.

I'm a cheerleader, okay.

Um, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

With that, I would ask for uh uh do pass recommendation for Board Bill 119.

I make a motion that we pass Board Bill 119 with a D pass recommendation.

Second.

It was moved by Vice Chair Sany and seconded by Otterman Browning that we pass Board Bill 119 out with the do pass recommendation.

Madam Clerk, please call the role.

Automancohn, auto woman Sweitzer.

Aye, Auto Woman Keys.

Aye.

Altum and Browning?

Aye.

Autumn and Aldridge.

Aye.

Chair Clark Hubbard.

Aye.

Autumn and cone, Audow Woman Keys.

We have five I votes.

All right, congratulations.

Thank you.

I'll call Miss Broadway.

She'll be so excited.

Thank you so much.

With that, I'll pass it over to Vice Chair Sany.

Thank you.

Um, Audder Woman Clerk Hover, you're recognized to speak to Board Bill number 121.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Sign Yang members of the committee.

Madam Clerk, can you please read the summary for Board Bill 121?

Board Bill 121 introduced by Audible Shemim Car Cubbert.

And ordinance repealing ordinance number six five nine three seven, ordinance number six five seven four six, ordinance number six five six zero five, ordinance number six five four two four, ordinance numbers six five two two seven, and that portion of ordinance number six eight zero nine seven, section six that created the RPA two phase, one pilot and EATS accounts on in phase one, respectively dissolving the special allocation fund for South Town, the London Building, 1505, Missouri, Tech Electronics, 4200 LeCleed, and City Hospital RPA number two, phase one development areas, and respectively terminating the designation of certain portions of the city of Samuel's Missouri as redevelopment areas authorizing certain actions relating thereto and containing and appreciate appropriation clause and a severability and emergency clause.

Thank you so much.

That summary really does sum it up uh very well.

This bill just again desolved six TIF um six TIFS that were in place, and I do have uh Mr.

Zav Wilson here of SLDC uh for any additional context you may need or questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um we have also Tom Ray online, I believe from the controller's office.

He's outside counsel of the controller's office to answering questions.

Uh the six tips are South Town, Lauderman, 1505 Missouri, Tech Electronics 42 LaCleed and C Hospital RPA 2.

Um be happy to answer any questions via and thank you, Mr.

Ray for being on.

I apologize for not uh recognizing you as well.

If you had any comments or um context you wanted to add before we open up for questions, you can come on screen and let us know.

I'm having difficulty.

There I am.

Good morning.

Thank you.

My name is Sam Ray.

Ms.

Mr.

Ray, I'm gonna have you hold your right hand up.

Um and just promise anything which you sorry.

That what you're about to say is the truth, the whole truth in that.

I do.

Thank you.

You may proceed.

My name is Tom Ray, and I represent the controllers tax increment financing section uh here today.

And what we're what we're here for is as we have in the past, every year come before you ask for a termination of the redevelopment area special allocation funds wherein the city's received the project, the project is complete, and the TIFF note is either expired or matured and has been paid off.

Um so there's no need anymore for the assessor uh strike debt for the collector to collect taxes and send it to the controller or the controller to collect sales taxes, uh, and send it to this TIFF section.

Uh so we can just take them as as we did prior to um um the development, and as it happens throughout the city, we're in taxes are collected, just pass them straight to the taxing jurisdiction.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for adding that to it.

Uh with that, I think that's how the we you want to go through members of the committee now.

Yeah, I was checking to see if anybody was online, but she said no.

Okay.

Okay, all the 1.122, but not a woman, should I say?

Oh, I'm sorry, Ottawa.

Uh no questions, thank you.

And I think it's just you and I at this point.

Okay.

Um, I don't have necessarily a specific question, just more of a general question.

Um, just for any folks who are watching, we did get a presentation at the planning commission, kind of touching on TIFFs, explaining TIFFs what they are, um, and just kind of indicating um expressing how it can be used as a development tool and indicating that there, you know, it is a tool that we have in the tool belt that the city hasn't been used, but it's not off the table.

Um, I was just curious if you could speak a little bit more, Mr.

Wilson, to explaining.

I know that this is kind of something that happens every now and then.

The chair of HUDs comes to bring this forward, but if you could give any context to that process, the timeline, um, how often these things are looked at, just any of that information for the record.

Be happy to.

Um let me see.

Five of these um tips are being terminated because the 23 year uh 23 year clock has ran out on them.

Uh the Southtown one is retired early because they paid off their TIFF notes.

So you you will hopefully see a board bill like this every year terminate a certain amount of tips because uh we'll see in a second from Malin's uh presentation where the peak of TIFS approved about 23 years ago occurred around now.

So in the next two to three years, you'll hopefully see five to six tips terminated every year moving forward.

Um we did do a presentation in front of the uh planning commission.

Um watch that.

We also did one for the TIFF commission recently, uh TIF 101 class, kind to uh re-educate not just uh the TIFF commission, but our staff and the public on how TIFFs work and then what uh how to we proceed with TIFFS.

Uh we are hopefully will be using TIFFs in a wiser way.

Uh we've learned from our past.

We need uh to use them in uh commercial heavy commercial areas versus residential projects.

Some of these projects were residential, that they did not perform well.

Uh so moving forward, we would like to use them for the foundry type projects, have a commercial South Town, uh, Loft Borough Commons, those are types of where we see uh tips being used in the future and possible streetscape type of uh projects also.

So we it would first go to the TIFF commission, uh, then goes to Planning Commission, uh, then would come to the board of Alderman.

Those are the steps what we first would have to get a TIFF uh application and then proceeds from there.

But we're happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

And you kind of alluded to the but how do you measure the success of a TIFF?

Um how they're performing, uh, how much revenues coming into the taxing districts or tax into the project itself.

Uh some of the previous projections are weren't over the I think the over the top residential projects they thought would have higher increases in tax uh the real estate taxes, those did not occur, so those did not help pay the TIFF notes off.

Uh or real estate taxes in the past didn't move as what their projections uh called for uh where we see really the TIFF notes being paid off, or where you have sales tax and earnings tax coming uh speeding those payments off, and then once those notes are paid off, they the um the notes can the um they've been uh repealed and they go directly to tax and distribution there.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

We have Alderman Aldridge online.

Oh Alderman Aldridge.

No questions.

Thank you.

And Auto Woman Clark Shimin Clark Hubbard, you're recognized to close on board bill 121.

Thank you.

Before I close, and thank you for bringing those things up.

It just made me think to ask for the public that's watching, even if for some additional context, or to be able to view their presentation.

I wanted Zach to come share where they can follow.

SLDC has an uh YouTube channel, uh probably not many hits there, but uh you can go there and uh there's a TIFF 101 uh video there currently you can easily click on.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's gonna the numbers gonna shoot up now.

And that gives me a note, Chairwoman.

I also wonder, Mr.

Wilson, if it would be of note, I don't know if the process, but to send to the school district.

Um I know that they did their is it called the good news report or something like that.

They're having a lot of conversations about these things, and I think sometimes they're not aware of all the steps that are taken.

And so I think a lot of times when people talk about TIFFs, they talk about the activation, but I think they should be informed that hey, some of these things are actually dissolving and not being approved by the city and look at some of this compliance and follow-up in real time.

So um, I just think it might be good to send that over to them.

No, happy to, and uh plus the uh school district has two members on the TIFF commission, too.

So okay.

Okay, I think we're ready to close.

Yeah, they uh also Mr.

Wilson and Mr.

Williams did a great presentation at a school board meeting one time that I was able to view live, and you can go back on the school board's uh website and track that one as well.

So thank you.

With that, I'll close.

I'm asking for a due pass recommendation for board bill 121.

Yes, four of us with Roger.

Uh I would make a motion uh to uh pass board bill 121 out of committee with a due pass recommendation.

Second uh can we do previous row?

Oh I'm sorry, Rasheen.

My apologies, madam clerk.

May you please call the row.

Alderman Call.

I had to pull, I wanted to make sure I pulled over.

Alder Woman Switzer.

Alder Woman Keys.

Vice Chair Sony.

Aye.

Alderman Aldridge.

Aye.

Alderman Browning.

Aye.

Alderman Cone, Alder Woman Swiss, sir, all the woman keys.

We have four I votes.

Thank you.

Um, Madam Clerk, may I be added as a co-sponsor to Board Bill 121?

So noted.

Thank you.

And Chairwoman Hubbard, you're recognized for board bill number 12.

Thank you, Madam Vice Chair.

Madam Clerk, can you please read the summary for board bill 122?

Board Bill 122, sponsored by introduced by Audible Mr.

Mim Clark Hubbard.

Except as noted under the proposed time schedule for completion of projects, they're in.

Thank you so much.

We'll be prepared to uh present the presentation.

I'm gonna give horror copies out will and I'll pass it over to SLDC.

Okay.

Oh, you don't appreciate that.

There we go.

Okay.

Thank you.

Should I be this morning?

No, not for this.

Okay.

Should I start?

Um okay.

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the HUDS Committee.

Um, this is actually so my name is Madeline Swanstrom.

I'm the incentive compliance manager for L DC, and this is my third year given giving this tax increment financing update that we do every year as required by state statute.

We are required to hold a public hearing five years for five year anniversaries for a TIFF project, but because we have so many, we just do the hearing all at once for all of them.

And so I'll be going through those today.

We did place notice of the this public hearing in the daily record.

We advertise for that, and we also um advertised the annual statement, which you have a copy regarding all approved TIFF projects as we do every year.

And then we also sent annual reports for each active TIFF to the state by November 15th, 2025, as we do every year, and we receive the information from the comp troller that we then report to the state every year to stay in compliance.

And I'm sure the members of the committee already know this, but just for the public, anyone who might be tuning in, TIFS are revenue bonds.

They are not um general obligation for the city, so they're paid off by the project, as um Zach was referring to, not by the city itself.

So we'll start with the overview.

Um, so we have 152 redevelopment plans established.

Out of those 124 redevelopment agreements, 57 retired and terminated TIFFs at the time of making this presentation, which now has increased that we've um terminated a few today.

And so there are more out of the agreements.

We actually have more projects because some of those are redevelopment project areas.

Um, so they have uh PDAs, uh parcel development agreements, not redevelopment agreements, so they don't get counted.

And we most of most TIFFs have are now substantially complete.

We do have a few that are partially complete, so you know, one building is finished but not the other, um, or two that are still under construction as well.

And then you can see that uh the early 2000s were a very active year for TIFFs, and it's dropped off quite a bit since then.

So now we'll go through the 25-year anniversary projects.

We only have two.

Both of these have been terminated and retired.

We have the Center for Emerging Technologies.

That special allocation fund was dissolved on January 23rd, 2015 by ordinance 69903, and this was uh an exist the expansion of an existing technology incubator um near near Cortex in the Central West End.

And then we also have one 10 North Newside condominiums also in the central west end, and that special allocation fund was dissolved on January 28th, 2013 by ordinance 69365, and that was of course a 12-unit condominium project.

Moving forward through to the 20-year anniversary projects.

We have Bell Offs or Lofts at 315.

Um, this was actually the renovation of two buildings, seven-story on at 920 Olive Street and a five-story building at 1000 Locust Street.

920 Olive Street was um most recently occupied.

The ground floor was most recently occupied by Bailey's Range, which is no longer in existence.

Um the other buildings house the Willow Event space and the bridge restaurant, which are still operating.

The $2.6 million TIFF note will mature in 2027, and the unpaid principal amount is 2.6 million dollars.

Next we have Westgate Lofts.

So this is a project at 410 North Jefferson in downtown West.

It's a five-story warehouse uh converted to 64 condominiums, and the total cost of the project was 12.8 million.

The 1.7 million dollar TIFF note is scheduled to mature in 2027.

The unpaid principal amount is about 1.6 million.

Next, we have Washington Avenue apartments.

Um this was a project is former nine-story days in hotel converted to 127 apartments.

Project cost 9 million at the time and was completed in 2007.

The 1.1 million dollar TIF note is scheduled to mature in 2027.

The unpaid principal amount is $813,000.

Next, we have convention plaza apartments.

This was the historic renovation of an apartment building with 48 units in downtown near the convention center.

And it's now called the Crown Downtown at a total cost of $9 million.

The $941,000 TIFF note will mature in 2027.

The unpaid principal amount is just under $900,000.

Next we have Adler Lofts condominiums, sorry, Adler Lofts.

This was a project on Wash Av condominium apartments, 32 loft units with commercial space and related parking for a total cost of $8 million.

The $939,000 TIFF note will mature in 2027, and the unpaid principal amount is about $760,000.

Next we have Washington East condominiums.

This is at this actually four loft buildings, $901 Washington Avenue, $1001 Washington Avenue, $1010 Lucas for retail office and residential condos for a total cost of $60 million.

The $8 million TIF note will mature in 2027, and the unpaid principal amount is $6.8 million.

Next we have Mississippi Place.

This was the development of some townhouses in Lafayette Square.

And the $863,000 TIFF note will mature in 2027.

The unpaid principal amount is $338,000.

Next we have Marquette Building.

This was the rehab of the Marquette building on Broadway in downtown into $119 apartments that are now condominiums.

The $4.5 million TIF note will mature in 2027, and the unpaid principal amount is $3.8 million.

Next we have the Meridian Building.

This was the renovation of the nine-story 80 Brown building for 89 condominiums with ground floor commercial and related parking.

The $3.5 million TIFF note will mature in 2027, and the unpaid principal amount is around $3.3 million.

Next we have Bottle District.

This was proposed as a mixed use project just north of downtown, but it was never implemented.

It was supposed to be combined with Northside, but again, never got off the ground.

It is technically not been terminated yet.

Okay, next we have Dogtown Walk, which I believe James spoke about earlier as a PUD.

So that's a funny coincidence.

So this was a private street in Dogtown.

It developed 10 new houses on that street.

The 440 434,000 TIFF note will mature in 2028, and the unpaid principal amount is $321,000.

Next, we have East Bank Lofts.

The project consists of commercial spaces on the first floor and residential units on floors three through eight and 15 parking spaces located underneath the building.

The $1.5 million TIF Note will mature in 2028, and the unpaid principal amount is around $1.5 million.

Next we have the PET building or 0.400.

This is the conversion of the pet building, which was a formerly vacant commercial building in downtown into $118 residential units and approximately $8,500 square feet of commercial.

The $3.1 million TIF Note will mature in 2028, and the unpaid principal amount is $2.3 million.

Next is Willie's Overland Building or NSI.

This is located at $2300 Locust.

It's a historic rehabilitation that is occupied by an as an office building by NSI.

The project resulted in $155,000 square feet of office space.

The $1.5 million TIF note will mature in 2028.

The unpaid principal amount is about $1.5 million.

Next we have Maryland Plaza North and South or the amended Argyle TIFF.

This project reinvested into Maryland Plaza in the Central West End and brought a diverse collection of premier retail and dining establishments to the area, bringing the former Saxfield Avenue and Montaldos buildings into productive use.

The TIFF notes have been retired and the special allocation funds were dissolved in 2021 and 2024.

Moving on to Barton Street Lofts, this is the renovation of a story 26,000 square foot church and school property into 12 loft condominium units in Seulard.

The TIFF note has been paid off and retired, and the special allocation fund was dissolved by ordinance 71439 on January 23rd, 2022.

Next is Gaslight Square East.

And the TIFF supported public uh improvements on the street where 52 new single family homes and townhouses were uh developed and a 4,000 square foot commercial building renovated on the 4100 block of Olive Street.

The 1.7 million dollar TIF note was paid off early, and the special allocation fund was dissolved by ordinance 71784 on March 14th, 2024.

Next we have Lofboro Commons, the development of a 40 million dollar 230,000 square foot retail center, um creating an estimated 61 jobs.

The 9 million dollar TIFF note was paid off early, and a special allocation fund was dissolved by ordinance 71784 on March 14th, 2024.

Next we have Automobile Row, 3100 locusts, RPA 1 and 2.

Um so RPA 1 was did get developed.

Um the original proposal was 18 different properties in Midtown Alley on Locust Street.

Um the TIFF for RPA 1 has been paid off and retired.

RPA 2 was eventually terminated and not did not get off the ground, and that was dissolved by ordinance 68247 on March 9th, 2009.

Next we have Park Ridge Estates, um 56 new single family homes and townhouses along new streets off 5700 Arsenal Street.

The 1.34 million dollar TIF note was retired, and the special allocation fund was solved by ordinance 71090 on February 3rd, 2020.

Okay, that was a lot for 20 years.

So 15 years won't be as much.

Um we have six projects, so it's a little less for 15 years.

Um could could we ask a couple questions before we oh sure, yes, of course.

Uh I just because we're we're racing through these and I just want to make sure that people who are watching can understand.

So when you say that um the TIFF note is maturing, what what does that mean for the people at home?

The 23 years has run out, and so now the full it will the taxes will flow fully back to the taxing districts.

Um so in all of these cases, 100% of the pilots or payments in lieu of taxes for the increment of the real property that goes up after development is being directed back into the note, and 50% of the EATS or the economic activity taxes are also being that's earnings and sales taxes are being redirected into the note.

Um so after the 23 years is up, no matter how much has been paid back into the note, the it retires and those flow fully back to the taxing districts.

That's really helpful.

So if there's an outstanding balance, uh, what does that mean for the balance being paid?

It it does not.

So either the developer holds the note or they might sell it off to someone else and often for less than the note was worth, right?

So it the note just means that they get paid a maximum of, for example, 1.34 million for Park Ridge estates.

Um that doesn't get paid off in 23 years, it's it just doesn't get paid off, and the TIFF just didn't perform.

Um, and that's usually again the develop the developer is the one getting those getting usually holding the note or whoever they sold it to.

So they might have sold it to someone who bought it for a lot less, and so they aren't expecting to get the full value of the note back.

So that that hurts the developer more than it hurts the city.

Does not hurt the city really doesn't hurt the city um because we aren't we aren't buying the notes.

We aren't backing the notes.

I just want to put that in context.

So when a note does like when a TIFF doesn't perform as expected, it's not necessarily a bad thing that well it's here.

I'll add Zach.

Correct.

Uh other cities across the country back their TIFF notes, and when there's a shortfall, uh the cities comes off the city's call first, and that has hurt those cities and their ratings in the past.

Uh I think one thing the city of St.

They do not back their TIFF notes.

They did on the Manchester um strip mall, and that did not perform well, and they had to pay the shortfall.

So they since then they have not backed TIFF notes.

So just uh the last question I have.

So if a project never gets off the ground, like the bottle distroid twitch.

Boy, do people have feelings about that.

Yes.

Um the what what happens to there's no, I mean, my understanding is there's no real loss to anyone if the project doesn't even get started because this is all on improved value that's happening.

So if it just doesn't no one money gets invested, which is where we we were when we started, but it would be as if there was no TIFF at all.

That correct well, it depends if there's a uh allocation fund setup, the money would go in there.

Uh then once the uh TIFF um is rescinded, all that money that's been being held will be put uh redistributed to the taxing districts.

But a lot of times the mine just sits until the actual project does occur or not occur.

Uh Bile district where hopefully uh we'll repeal that hopefully this year.

So that was my next question.

So thank you.

We please proceed.

Okay, any other questions for now or no?

Okay.

Um so we'll move on to 15-year anniversary projects.

First, we have Carondolette South District 2, Toronto School.

So this was the rehabilitation of the former Carondolette School into classroom and meeting room uses for the Grace Hill Community Center at 8201 Minnesota Avenue in the Corondolette neighborhood.

The hunt the TIFF note is 146,000, and the and it will mature in 2032.

The unpaid principal amount is 135,000.

Next is Northside Regeneration.

Umriginally this was proposed as an $8 billion project by developer Northside Regeneration in 2009.

Umly three components of the project were actually developed.

So we have Greenleaf Market, um Healthworks Hospital.

Um here in the picture says Homer G Phillips, but it was renamed Healthworks.

And um, let's see, and Zoom convenience store, but only Zoom convenience store still open.

The other two have closed.

Um the 9.3 million dollar TIF note will mature in 2036, and the unpaid principal amount is 6.8 million.

Um and then next we have 11 uh 1111 uh olive.

This is a an 11.75 million dollar 110,000 square foot office renovation that was completed and occupied by InfoMedia or Tier Point in 2011.

The project has created 84 jobs to date, and the 2.4 million dollar TIF note will mature in 2033.

The unpaid principal amount is 2.4 million.

Next we have Railway Exchange Building.

Um this is a 1.2 million square foot building we have in downtown St.

Louis, and it was proposed as a 111 million dollar two-phase project.

Phase one was uh completed in 2010 with the renovation of floors one through four for Macy's.

However, Macy's uh later closed.

Hudson Holdings then acquired the building and proposed a 300 million dollar mixed-use project, but nothing has happened to date.

Um the TIFF amount was 27.8 million.

Um the 9.1 million dollar TIF note will mature in 2033, and the unpaid principal amount is 9.1 million.

Again for that first phase.

Um so then we have 500 North Kings Highway.

Um this was at the time a proposed redevelopment of this former church at Kings Highway Boulevard and Washington Avenue in the central west end.

The project was canceled, and then the TIFF was terminated, and the special allocation fund was dissolved by ordinance 70407 on December 2nd, 2016.

And currently the Gospel Music Hall of Fame is being planned at the site.

So next we have 10-year anniversary projects.

Um so we have first, and this is actually missing from the PowerPoint, but the Hadley Dean building was um this was the proposed redevelopment of a downtown office building, but it actually ended up using a bait tax abatement and not TIFF.

Um so the project was completed, but it did not utilize the TIF.

The TIFF was terminated and the special allocation fund was dissolved by ordinance 71091 on March 3rd, 2020.

Next we have um union station phase two.

Let's see.

Um okay, so Hadley Dean was a 15-year anniversary.

That was our last 15-year anniversary project.

We only have one for 10-year anniversary, and that's Union Station Phase 2.

Hotel renovations were phase one.

That's not in a TIFF area.

Um the 187 million dollar phase two um includes the aquarium, the Ferris wheel, the mini golf, um, the mirror maze, the ropes course, the carousel, the sky rail, and three restaurants.

The 18.6 million dollar TIFF note is scheduled to expire in 2038, and the unpaid principal amount is 15 million dollars.

Next we have five-year anniversary projects.

We have two of those.

Um Forest Park TOD Expo on Devolver.

This was built on a former MetroLink Park and Ride lot next to the Forest Park de Bolivar station.

It's a transit-oriented development um right by the metro, and it includes first floor commercial space and 287 apartments on the upper floors, along with subsurface and structured parking.

The 14 million dollar TIFF note is scheduled to expire in 2043.

The unpaid principal amount is 13 million.

Next we have 900 North Tucker.

This was the redevelopment of the largely vacant post-dispatch building with high visibility on the northern edge of downtown.

Um, the developer proposed historic rehab of the property with a mix of uses, including office and ground floor retail space.

The anchor office tenant is square, and office space is available for a new tech in business incubator, now accelerator.

The 11 million dollar TIF note is scheduled to expire in 2042, and the unpaid principal amount is 11.2 million.

All right.

So I've already covered these, but just to reiterate um how many terminated TIFFs we have.

We have actually three.

Um 500 North Kings Highway, um, Automobile Row RPA 2 and the Hadley Dean Building.

And in terms of retired TIFFs that we covered today, that's includes Center for Emerging Technologies, 110 North Newstead condominiums, um, Maryland Plaza North and South, um, Barton Street Lofts, Gaslight Square East, Lofboro Commons, Automobile Row RPA 1, and Parker Estates.

And um, this is exhibit A for the board bill, just breaking down all of the TIFFs celebrating a five-year anniversary and breaking down the active retired and terminated TIFFs.

Okay, thank you.

And um take any questions at this time.

Thank you.

Um, we will just go through the committee auto member.

Oh, I'm sorry, are there any other speakers or anyone online?

We have public comment.

Okay, let's do that.

Um we have David Pate, more five.

Oh thanks.

That's a little weird, sorry.

Um I I had to put opposed or supporting or whatever.

I'm not opposed uh to this.

Wanted to um try to bring up a couple things uh specifically asking once again for more oversight of of this whole process.

Um, one way to think about a TIFF that doesn't pay off in the end is that's the amount that it was over incentivized by because if the developer doesn't care about getting it after 23 years, then it didn't really need it in the first place.

Is uh kind of another way to think about that.

SLDC does a lot of um evaluating of TIFF projects nowadays that they didn't do back then.

So the system is way improved, it's way better.

I would still ask that um TIFFs be done equitably and have a 50% pilots and 50% EATS, you know, that way they can benefit the city way earlier until uh so the city doesn't have to wait.

Well, the school district in particular doesn't have to wait 23 years or two uh termination of it.

The the thing I really wanted to talk about is the fact that LRA now owns uh commercial units in the Marquette building.

This is a screenshot of three of the units in the Marquette building are owned by LRA.

Um I think that's a failure of oversight of um, you know, they still have an active TIFF, they still have an active redevelopment agreement, and those properties were allowed to go to sale.

Um so now the public owners owns them and causes well LRA owns them and de facto the public.

It causes a big uh conflict.

The um also the parcels were filed suit against in 2020.

So that's when foundry was going through the process of being evaluated for another TIF, and to have three parcels in a current TIFF filed suit by the collector of revenue and not have that brought up um the whole time is is uh a pretty big lapse.

The total amount owed on those three parcels of 566,490 dollars at the time of the judgment being confirmed in court, the sale took place on May 13, 14, 15 of 2025, and the three parcels were transferred by a special warranty deed March 17th, 2025 to an entity that also owns other parcels in that building.

Um there was a release of a deed of trust against the commercial condos prior to that in 2023.

So somebody was getting paid, but it wasn't the city.

Um I have a bunch of questions now that probably are kind of outside the purview of this uh committee, but you know, now that they're LRA owns it, you know, does LRA get seats on the condo association board?

Um, you know, what are the uh are we paying insurance for for these parcels that are now owned in a in a building?

Is it under the master insurance policy?

And um how are we making sure that security is happening uh on behalf of of the LRA and the cities for our liability to not be increased?

If someone gets injured or God forbid, killed in one of those parcels, that would mean that the city would be liable as the owner of that property.

Um do we have insurance on it?

I I'm I understand that um you know the the TIFF compliance and the incentive compliance process is still evaluated, you know, evolving and has been you know greatly increased it recently.

However, I still think there's a really big uh gap because this came before the Board of Alderman five years ago.

Mr.

Payne, that's your time I'm sorry, when those suits would have been filed.

You can finish your thought.

Okay, thanks.

Um when those suits would have been filed.

So this is you know, two times through those three parcels would have been taxed delinquent enough by three years to have a suit filed against them, and then a payment plan entered into, and now they finally are owned by the LRA.

So I'm I'm kind of asking for somebody to stand up for the citizens and look out for us.

You know, SLDC's compliance, please please do that.

I mean, you guys do.

And the HUDS Committee has oversight of SLDC, so um, you know, start asking some more questions.

How many of these reports are are not all their taxes?

Mr.

Pay.

I I'm gonna leave now.

Okay, thank you.

Mr.

Connolly online.

Mr.

Carly, can you raise your hand?

And um perhaps that what you're about to say is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Yes, I do.

Thank you.

Um please just do we have your name, your board, and you may proceed.

Yeah.

Uh Jerry Connolly, uh, ward six.

Umly ward eight.

Uh Madam Chet, uh, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify.

Um I want to speak firstly to some transparency issues.

And I've got to say I very much appreciate the level of detail SLDC is providing now, kind of in contrast to years gone by um when this TIF report bill came up.

But that there are still issues that I think uh should raise cause for concern for the for the board and the public is that the data that Ms.

Swanstrom's gone through for each project.

Um, you know, we need this in advance.

And and a year ago, I said Ms.

Sunshine Requests afterwards for the slides presented, and it at some point either during or after the meeting, SLDC sent a document that had the slides similar to what you saw today, but it also had I mean here it is, this is printed out.

It had like a narrative for each project with the data on the TIFF note, when the maturity was, and how much of that note was outstanding.

And in order to kind of provide informed comment, that's the kind of information you know, you as a committee members and also the public deserve to have in advance.

And um I'd like to echo uh a couple of comments of Mr.

Pate, particularly regarding what's gone on with the Marquette building and the fact that LRA now own three of those commercial uh condominium units in the in the first floor level.

I hope the current developer doesn't get some kind of break on buying them back off the city.

Um but some of the other projects like the square uh 900 North Tucker, has that has that note actually been issued?

It said that there's still 11.1 or 2 million dollars outstanding on it.

Um that project was highly incentivized.

I don't think it needed any TIF whatsoever in the first place.

Um the developer, you know, didn't use regular construction lending.

There's multiple other incentives, including sales tax exemption, community improvement district, um, there's some form of rebate on earnings and payroll taxes.

And you know, I don't know if um various elected officials are paying for space when they hold their campaign events there, but I'd like to suggest that you know when you do these redevelopment agreements, they shouldn't be used for political fundraising whatsoever in both Squares building and union station, you know, fall into that category.

Um the 900 North Tucker project prior to the TIFF commission, even initially considering it before the hearing, work was already underway.

So this butt for analysis is kind of farcical when the developers already started the project before TIFF Commission and the Board of Alderman have had time to deliberate on it.

Um the union station project as well.

That uh also has a 20-year tax abatement.

So which is kind of the worst possible.

Uh may I can finish your thoughts?

Yes.

Yeah, thank you.

Um so it's kind of the worst possible scenario, particularly for the schools, and that the um when you're to when you're decreasing when you're abating the improvements, it's basically make making it less likely that that TIFF's gonna pay off sooner.

Um so uh in addition to the TIFS here, we need to be considering what other incentives are in place, and I think we've got more scrutiny of that now, but I think some of these projects um you know they need more oversight on the other, you know, like the taxing districts that are in place for them.

The city representation needs to be needs to happen because many of them don't have uh city representatives on the boards.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Does that complete the folks we have for public comment?

Yes, yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We will go through the committee now, Otto and Schweitzer.

We're so happy to have you back with us.

Thank you so much.

I will yield my time uh to others who are here for the presentation.

Alderman Browning.

Uh thank you.

I I think I got most of my questions out of the way.

I just had one additional question, which was that um as these are ending.

Can you just speak into the mic, please?

I'm yeah.

Um sorry.

Uh so as these are ending and expiring, um how is this communicated with uh the appropriate entities at the city, whether it's the you know, assessor or the quadrant revenue, um to make sure that the taxes are are now returning to the city.

So um the comp troller's office is is uh tasked with the the notes themselves.

Um they report out that information to which we then present to you all.

And so they're responsible for communicating with the assessor and the collector of revenue for when that occurs.

But we coordinate with their office with Tom who's here today.

Um, so we're confident that that is is happening.

Excellent.

Well, thank you for the the presentation today.

I really appreciate um and just also for being here for all the other bills we had today.

I always appreciate your time.

Of course, thank you.

Thank you, Altman Browning.

I mean, sorry, Ottawa and Aldrich.

Thank you.

Um I only just have a few questions.

Um how do you all assess whether or not a project is making satisfactory progress along its timeline, right?

So if a TIFF is 23 years, are you is there someone going in and looking at each year or every five years how they're looking and figuring out if we should be you know revisiting their scope or raising a red flag to the SODC or an entity that it doesn't look like this TIFF is on track to getting to where it is?

Right.

So I I we we do the annual reports to the state, and that is I I think the reason behind why we have to do that is so that they can assess the progress of the TIFF.

Um, I mean, once it's in motion, it's you do that how often?

Uh every year for all the active TIFFs.

So even the ones we're not presenting on today, if they're active, we do a report to the state saying uh how much in pilots and how much in EATS is going into the note, um, how much the notes themselves.

So it's the performance of the TIFF.

And I think you know, Zach alluded to with a lot of these projects that aren't paying off.

Uh we they we would not consider them appropriate for TIFF today, but it was a new tool at the time.

And so it was kind of seen as a panacea bit, maybe, and uh because a lot of the downtime projects needed help.

Yeah.

Also, I would like to point out I would not use satisfactory as a term I would on any future reports on old TIFFs.

Uh that's kind of boilerplate wording that we got stuck with.

Um, so that's what we've been blessed with in the past, and we had to keep on going with it moving forward.

These are just hard facts that we report on.

Well, we get data from straight from the controller.

Uh so it's the information they provide us, and then we provide to the state and to the board of aldermen.

So go ahead.

No, go ahead.

No, it's it's some of the numbers are not great, and we are fully aware of that, and that's something we want to address in moving forward that we need to use TIFF correctly moving forward.

Uh we need to bring retail and services to areas that need it.

Uh similar to South Town and Loft Borough Commons, hopefully do that in other parts of the city.

That's where we should use a TIFF.

Um, but in other type of projects, uh residential, we should not be using TIFFs.

Do you have the ability or someone in your department, Mr.

Wilson?

Where if like okay, so I know now we're seeing the grand report, and you're able to see at the end.

I think at the end is very clear, it's much easier to evaluate because the timeline, the goals are very clear.

Do you have the ability if you are if a TIFF is in year seven and it has 20 years, but you are like, oh, but they're nowhere near along the timeline of meeting this metric.

Do you have the ability to bring that up for a conversation and flag that or revisit the number, or is it kind of once passed, unless like a specific clawback clause?

It's correct.

The and the problem in the past, we don't have made clawbacks.

So a lot of these once they get started, there's not much we can do on them.

So the newer TIFFs we have um and tax abatements have job projections and things like that, which Marlin uh tracks and we uh keep on top of, but that's within the last handful of years.

Okay.

Um my next question is much simpler.

Um, I think this is for you, Miss Madeline.

I just want to clarify that you said unpaid principal amount quite a bit, and I want to make sure I'm just properly that that's basically the difference between the outstanding outstanding balance and the the debt on the debt that's owed to the bond.

Right, yes, and they they pay interest as well.

So sometimes if it looks like it hasn't paid down any people, it's because the EATS and the pilots have gone to paying the interest and not and haven't touched the principal.

So they're still paying into it, but they just haven't touched the principal.

Thank you for that clarity.

Um, were there any other questions from the committee?

Okay.

Alder Woman Claire Cover, would you like to close?

Thank you so much.

Thank you again for all the additional questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Payne and Mr.

Conley for always being here flagging things.

And many times we do miss, uh, we really do appreciate um you all's input on this and on this process and has been noted today that continues to evolve and is continuing to get better.

And I would probably be remiss if I didn't say it was because of some of the work and the questions, the inquiries that Mr.

Conley and Mr.

Pate and others have brought forward.

So thank you.

With that, I'm asking for your favorable consideration and do pass recommendation for Board Bill 122.

I'd move that we pass Board Bill 122 out with a due pass recommendation.

Second.

Madam Clerk, may you please call the role?

It's been moved by Alderman Browning and seconded by Alderman Aldrich.

Alderman Cone.

Auto Woman Sweitzer.

Aye.

Auto Woman Keys.

Vice Chair Sonier.

Aye.

Alderman Browning.

Aye.

Alderman Aldrich.

Aye.

Chair Clark Hubbard.

Aye.

Autumn and Cone.

All the woman keys.

We have five I votes.

All right.

Thank you, everyone.

Madam Clerk, do we have any resolutions for review?

We have no.

Any committee discussions?

We have no.

Any written testimony?

We have no.

Any announcements?

I would like to note that we need um have an excuse for necessary absence for Alderman Cone and Automan Keys.

Second.

It was uh moved.

It was uh moved that we excuse Audown Cone and Ottawa Keys uh for necessary absence.

All in favor previous role.

Right.

All of that.

Okay.

All right.

I'll accept the motion to who made the motion and who's second.

The motion was made by Chairwoman Claire Hubbard, seconded by Alderman Aldrich in a call for previous row.

And I'll accept a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second.

Previous roll.

All right, we are adjourned.

Everyone have a blessed day.