Welcome to the City of St.

Petersburg City Council Meeting.

Your elected officials are Mayor Ken Welch.

District 1, Hopley Gerdis, District 2, Brandy Gabbard.

District 3, Mike Harding.

District 4 and Council Chair, Lazeth Hanowitz.

District 5, Deborah Fake Sanders.

District 6, Gina Driscoll.

District 7, Corey Gibbons Jr.

And District 8 and Council Vice Chair, Richie Floyd.

Good morning, everyone.

We're going to call the meeting to order.

Will the clerk please call roll?

Dick Sanders.

Here.

Givens.

Here.

Gabbard.

Harding.

Here.

Hannawitz.

I now realize it's the afternoon, so good afternoon.

We have our invocation today from Captain Jonathan Sanchez, St.

Petersburg Fire Rescue Chaplain.

Please stand for the invocation, followed by a moment of silence, and then please remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you.

First, let me say what an honor it is to be asked to be given the invocation for today's council meeting here in these chambers and with these leaders.

Thank you for having me.

Let's begin.

Dear Heavenly Father, we come before you with gratitude for this day for the privilege of serving the city of St.

Petersburg.

Together we lift up the members of the St.

C.

Petersburg City Council and ask that you grant them wisdom, discernment, and clarity as they make an impact for this community.

Lord Jesus, guide their conversations with respect, their actions with integrity, and their leadership with a heart to serve.

Help them to seek what is right, just, and beneficial for everyone.

Father, we ask for your protection over the men and women who serve on the front lines to protect our city, the firefighters, police, and emergency medical responders.

Strengthen them, give them courage in difficult moments, and bring them safely home after every call.

Lord, make this time together marked by unity, purpose, and a shared commitment to the well-being of the city.

Let your sun shine brightly on the city of St.

Petersburg and drive out darkness.

In closing, let everything done here today contribute to the peace, safety, and flourishing of our community.

In the mighty name of Jesus, we pray.

Amen.

Please remain standing for a moment of silence, honoring fallen first responders.

Detective Wayne M.

Barry, end of watch, May 23rd, 1929.

Officer Frank A.

Pike, end of watch, May 19th, 1933.

And firefighter Robert F.

Parker, last alarm, May 10th, 1969.

Thank you.

I pledge allegiance to the fire.

And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation.

Under individual.

Please be seated.

Thank you so much for the invocation, Captain.

Great to see you.

Before we approve the agenda, I have a couple of notes here I want to share that other council members have asked me to share.

Chair Chair Hanowitz isn't here today, uh or right now because her daughter is receiving an award at school.

Uh so she's attending that, but she will be back as soon as she is able.

And uh Councilmember Gabbard has an obligation with the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council as the chair of the Resiliency Coalition.

Uh but she will be back as soon as she can as well.

Uh so council members, we have an agenda before us.

Do I have a motion for approval?

Second.

All right.

Seeing no request to speak, will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing that all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tell me and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair, approval to a motion to approve the agenda passes unanimously.

With council members Gabbard and Hannah Wish being absent.

Thank you.

Uh we also have a consent agenda before us.

Clerk, do we have any cards on the consent agenda?

Uh yes, Mr.

Vice Chair, we have uh three cards.

I'm gonna call two speakers at a time.

When I call your name, please go to an open podium, state your name, address, and/or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

First two speakers are Michelle Knight and Sakia Donaldson.

Good afternoon, Council.

My name is Michelle L.

Knight.

I'm a participant in the Sunrise St.

Pete Disaster Relief Program.

I'm speaking today regarding item C B 20, the proposed amendment extending BDO's government services contract.

I am asking this council.

For the uh record, please, or cross street.

My current address is 601 Rosary Road and Largo.

I am a former I am a hurricane victim, so we had to move, but it was here in St.

Pete.

I am asking this council to condition any extension or additional funding on the full audit of BDO's award calculation accuracy and compliance with HUD commun um the C D B D-DR requirements.

In my case and in others, the gap funding this amendment seeks to address is being created by BDO's own administrative errors.

My award was underobligated by more than 1200 due to the use of incorrect FEMA data, the exclusion of federally eligible expenses, and inconsistent application of programs' own written guidelines.

These are not minor clerical errors.

These are compliance issues.

And when a contractor missed applies, federal rules, it doesn't harm residents, it exposes the city to HUD monitoring findings and potential clawbacks of the city's 150 159 million dollar allocation.

While the administration is asking to expand BDO's role, the current oversight structure is not catching these errors.

I have escalated documentation inconsistencies for months, including identity errors, incorrect data sets, and the exclusion of eligible expenses.

Despite clear evidence in the canopy system, the determinations were labeled quote unquote as final.

Leaving residents with no meaningful administrative remedy.

When residents are forced to seek help from HUD and federal oversight bodies because the contractor's internal review processes are not functioning, that is a sign of systematic oversight gap, not an isolated mistake.

If the city is paying a premium for disaster recovery management, then accuracy, compliance, and accountability must be non-negotiable.

Before approving this amendment, I respectfully ask the council to request one, how many appeals or escalations are currently pending regarding BDO's award calculations?

What corrective action has been taken to ensure BDO is following the HUD rules?

Three, whether an independent audit of award accuracy has been conducted, and if not, why not?

Residents deserves transparency.

The city deserves compliance, and federal funds deserve stewardship, not assumptions.

Thank you for your time.

Hi, I'm actually here to discuss consent agenda number seven.

So I don't know if I filled out the wrong card.

You're good.

I can go ahead and go ahead and please take your name and address your cross speak for you.

My name is Sakia Donaldson.

I'm sorry, can I come up?

Um, no, you can't.

We're together.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, you can stand there, but you can't speak while she's talking.

Okay.

Um, agenda seven, the proposal for the genius lab um with STEM exposure.

So um what is it?

Okay.

Well, you can't speak.

Okay.

Can you can't speak together.

I mean, you can stand there, but you can't speak while she's speaking.

Okay, so move away so I can speak, right?

No.

How does that work?

Because we're here together.

I don't know if you have a card.

Yeah, each one of us put out a card.

Okay, then after she has her three minutes, then I'll call your name and then you'll have three minutes to speak.

Okay, so just okay.

Um I'm sorry.

Sorry for the confusion.

Um, so the genius lab is the after-school program, um, powered by STEM exposure.

Um, I run a STEM program as well called the Science of Beauty that's going to be part of the curriculum for um the Genius Lab.

So I just wanted to speak to that.

So the Science of Beauty is a STEM program that introduces culturally relevant STEM careers in the beauty and cosmetic chemistry space.

Um we've been in existence for roughly four years, and we have actually been implemented into six middle magnet schools in Hillsborough County.

So we look forward to bringing the program to Pinellas County.

We also offer a um historically black college and university tour that we go on every summer called the Summer of Science Tour, and we are currently at Spelman College in Atlanta, we're at Xavier University in New Orleans, we're in North Carolina AT in Greensboro, and we'll be at Tuskegee this summer.

So again, we look forward to bringing our STEM curriculum and program to Pinellas County.

And the last speaker for the consent agenda is Robert Robin Donaldson.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address City Council.

Thank you.

My name is Robin Donaldson.

My address is 2235 22nd Street, St.

Pete, Florida, 33712, and I am the proud founder of STEM exposure.

And again, I'm speaking in regards to the genius lab.

Um STEM exposure is eight years old, and we have amazing accomplishments.

In fact, we are we had the opportunity to go global in the middle of the pandemic out of my garage, and we're currently in 10 countries and in four time zones.

Um we have 14 students at the University of Nairobi who are pursuing architecture, and then also at FAMU, we have eight students, and we have one international student who just graduated this year from um FIU, and we have two additional females that are graduating.

Well, they always already have graduated, and I'm telling you all of that to tell you this because it speaks to the leadership skills that we have and how we're able to make a uh impact in various countries, and we want to bring that same success to the city of St.

Pete.

So the Genius Lab, we are is an amazing after-school program where we're going to expose kids in South St.

Pete to STEM careers.

We have over 10 STEM careers that we're going to offer everything from A to Z.

So we have we have AI, we have architecture, we have cybersecurity, we have the data sciences, we have the science of sports, we have the science of beauty, and then also we have what I absolutely love because I'm an instructor, is the construction class, the workforce piece.

So I train at least five to seven traits, and then also they're able to get certification.

I also own a construction company.

So the students that do graduate, they know that they have a job lined up upon completion.

Um this particular uh grant opportunity is one that is going to really stretch stem exposure in many ways, and uh that would be because of what we have to provide.

So we have to provide transportation to and from, we have to provide a nutritious meal for after school, and of course, um, because I've mastered the art of collaboration, we are um soliciting to different restaurants, food trucks in the local community, asking that they be part of the students' food experience.

So they would be offering um different cuisines because of course St.

Pete is known for that, right?

So each week we're going to give those students an amazing food experience, and then also with our transportation, we're utilizing our community.

Uh, because of course you know the price of gas and insurance.

Uh we are using a couple of church vans because they only use it on Sunday, and so I said, Well, how about if we can utilize it Monday through Thursday to get these students to uh the Enoch Davis Center?

And again, I just wanted to speak because again, this is a transformational transformational opportunity for St.

Pete.

Thank you.

Uh Council members, we have a consent agenda before us.

Uh Councilmember Driscoll.

Thank you.

Regarding the first speaker on CB 20, um, did the administration have any um any information that could be helpful in light of those comments?

Yeah.

Um I'll kind of give an overview about how appeals, complaints, and exceptions get handled, and then Miss Phillips can share a little bit more about this specific issue.

So just so you're aware, in our action plan, there is a written process for how complaints, exceptions, and appeals get handled.

Aubrey Phillips team reviews those and then escalates them to me, and then I decide whether they are um, you know, concurred with or if something else needs to happen.

Out of more than 2500 applications, I can tell you that we've had about seven of those three categories.

Um all three of those categories are usually things like I didn't get to apply, I accidentally applied to the county instead of the city.

This is the only one that has been about the award amount.

And this one also has been elevated to HUD, and I believe HUD has concurred with our analysis as well.

But I'm gonna let Ms.

Phillips speak to that.

Good afternoon, council members.

Um, so yes, as administrator Foster indicated, uh, when we received these complaints, we did review uh we one, each award recommendation from BDO.

My staff does the QC of that award and recalculates, make sure that the awards are calculated properly, that duplication of benefits is do is calculated properly when we receive the complaint.

Our complaint team re-reviewed that determination to make sure that that math was correct.

Because HUD was also involved.

We also met with our HUD representatives out of Jacksonville to review our methodology and how we went about doing that calculation and they concurred with our determination.

Right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

And um I'll add that I am supportive of item CA7.

I'm um excited uh to have the city partnering with STEM exposure, which was um ranked considerably higher in the scoring than the other uh proposers, and given the history and experience that they have, along with what you see is clear passion for what they do.

Um I think our um children are going to be in great hands.

So thank you.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

All right.

Uh seeing another uh no other requests for comments.

Move to approval.

Second.

Thank you.

I'll say just real quick um for I think it was C B 20.

Uh I read over what the amendment does, and it seems to just add more responsibilities to the people that we have the contract with.

And so I don't see the need to hold it up today, but I am interested in getting more information on uh some of the stuff that's come up because I think it can be handled as regardless of this specific amendment.

Um so I'd be encourage anyone to reach out to my office and uh I'd talk to administration as well about it.

Uh all right, we have a motion and a second.

Will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing all present council members have voted, will the clerk please sign and announce the votes?

Mr.

Vice Chair, motion to approve the consent agenda passes unanimously with Council Member Gabbard and Hannah Wish being absent.

Thank you very much.

Uh all right, uh open forum clerk.

If there are any speakers for open forum, please read the rules.

If you wish to address city council on subjects other than public hearing or quasi-judicial items listed on the agenda, please sign up with the clerk.

Only the individual wishing to speak may sign the open forum sheet.

Only city residents, owners of property, business owners in the city, or their employees may speak.

All issues discussed under open forum must be limited to issues related to the city of St.

Petersburg government.

If you are speaking to an item on the agenda, you may only speak once during the open forum or when the item comes up on the agenda.

Clause is not permitted except in connection with awards and presentations.

In order to provide an opportunity for all citizens to address council, each individual will be given three minutes to speak, and after which the microphone will be muted.

If you wish to address the city council through the Zoom meeting, you must use the raised hand feature button in the Zoom app or enter star nine on your phone at the time the agenda item is addressed.

When it is your turn to speak, you will be unmuted and asked to state your name and address.

At the conclusion of your comments or when you reach the three-minute time limit, you will be muted.

All raised hands will be lowered after each agenda item.

Regardless of the method of participation used, normal rules apply, including a three-minute time limit on comments, the requirement that any presentation materials must be submitted in advance of the meeting and the rules of the quorum.

If live public comment is disrupted by violation of the rules of decorum, the chair is authorized to accept public comment by alternate means, including by email only.

And we do have some speakers listed here.

Dr.

Perry G.

Washington.

St.

Petersburg for the Berg.

Thank you, Dr.

Washington.

Could you give us cross streets, please?

Fifth Street North?

What's this?

Oh here.

What is the way?

This is fifth three.

What is this over here?

Well no.

I'm sorry, I don't.

You asked him for a cross street.

I gave you 50 north.

What is this over here?

Uh.

Second Avenue is what we were asking.

You don't even know.

No, say it.

Whitey's on the moon.

Again, Whitey is on the moon.

The streets in South St.

Petersburg are flooding.

What whitey is on the moon?

I like to think.

Skill Gil Scott Heron.

The Queen of Dicks.

And the Nissan Corporation.

The mayor, the City Council.

Allow me to be thrown in jail for defending my own name.

They put a fence in my yard.

And you are allowed to have what you are.

Seems like nothing changed.

You don't even have to come DC.

Don't look at me when I'm talking to you.

You're a given.

But you guarantee.

The next religion, you gonna be gone, sir?

Why?

Because why?

It's back on the moon.

What did I tell you?

When you sit in that seat and they were spitting on you.

I stood over there and told you to do something about it.

But what is still on the moon?

Him!

And her!

Sitting at this time!

What a gun!

What words on the moon?

Any more speakers?

The next two speakers are Robert Donaldson and Zakia Donaldson.

I believe they are no longer here.

Is that all?

That is officer.

Alright, thank you.

We'll close open forum and move on to awards and presentations.

Our first award D1 is National Nurses Week proclamation.

Giving by Councilmember Gurtis.

Sorry, Chair.

That's okay.

That's my favorite.

Good afternoon, Vice Chair colleagues.

I get to have some fun this afternoon.

And so I want to invite up some friends of mine from St.

Anthony's from HCA, both Pasadena and St.

Petersburg, Johns Hopkins, and Orlando Health Bayfront, as we celebrate Nurses Week.

I think you have heard me talk.

That was an invitation.

Guys are going to just let me go solo.

Jeez.

I need the moral support.

I know you have heard me speak before about nurses in our community.

And they are truly miracle workers.

And I know I use that often when talking about health care.

But when we're talking about our nurses here in St.

Petersburg and across the country and across the world, they are the ones doing the daily work.

That support our parents, our patients, our families, all of the above.

And so I just want to tell you two quick two quick stories.

He's actually here right now.

He's somewhere I'm he's probably making an absolute disaster of my office right now.

But he was he was born a few weeks early, and right uh right after he was born, they could tell he wasn't breathing all that well, and they swooped him off and they took him right to the NICU.

And immediately when I got up to the NICU, my son was surrounded by about eight nurses, and I immediately felt better.

And then a couple hours later, after checking on my wife and coming back, there were two more in his room, constantly looking over him.

And immediately I knew we were in the right place with the right people.

And those were the nurses that kept my son healthy over the next seven days while he was in the NICU, the ones that kept me sane and my wife informed as we were at the hospital for the next seven days.

And so my story on uh in NICU is one of joy.

We came out all good, Kate is all good.

Uh, but that's not always uh the case.

And so not only do they have the good ones, they have the bad ones too.

And they go, they go to work day after day with a smile on their face.

And the reason I know that is the second story is four years ago, about six months into my first term, my uh my first year on city council.

I woke up at three o'clock in the morning and I thought I was having a stroke.

And so I went to the hospital and I spent the night there.

Thankfully, I was not having a stroke.

I'm about to have one.

But see, I told you I needed the support.

And so uh I was in a room for, I don't know, about 36 hours, and for 12 of those hours, the neighbor across the way at my in my room was yelling at the top of his lungs, not very nice things that I couldn't repeat here today and wouldn't repeat at my dinner table.

And every time I watched the nurse walk in and out of that room, that nurse walked out with a smile on her face into mine.

And I can tell you, I'm uh relatively patient with people.

I would have lost my head 11 hours earlier.

And so, you know, we talk about the care and we talk about uh the education and what they bring, but I needed to talk about just the humanity that they bring every single day to their jobs, to their passionate careers.

And I wanted a big thank you from me uh to all of you and to all of your colleagues.

Just know that you are appreciated, and we are here supporting you, especially during this week.

And uh I know I know my colleagues, and I'm sure they'll share feel the same, and I know the mayor does too.

And so it's my absolute honor, seriously, my absolute honor to present this proclamation uh to all of you today.

Whereas each year, National Nurses Week offers an opportunity to recognize the compassion, dedication, and unwavering commitment of nurses who serve on the front lines of health care, and whereas, nurses represent the largest segment of health care workforce in the United States, and with more than four million registered nurses and thousands serving here in St.

Petersburg across hospitals, clinics, schools, and community settings, and whereas behind these numbers are stories that unfold every day in quiet hospital rooms, sometimes not that quiet, busy emergency departments, and neighborhood clinics, where a nurse is often the first to greet a patient and the last to ensure they are not alone.

And whereas it may look like a routine shift on paper, but for a nurse it can mean comforting a frightened patient in the early hours of the morning, explaining a complex medical information, explaining complex medical information in a way a family can understand and returning repeatedly with patience, skill, and compassion.

And whereas in the city of St.

Petersburg, nurses are present in life's most meaningful moments, welcoming new life into the world, supporting patients through recovery, and offering comfort and dignity at the end of life, serving not only as caregivers, but as trusted companions to individuals and families during times that will never be forgotten.

And whereas, through these everyday acts of care and connection, nurses help carry individuals and families through some of life's most challenging and meaningful moments, leaving a lasting impact that extends far beyond the walls of any single interaction.

Now, therefore, I Councilmember Copley Gurtis, on behalf of Kenneth T.

Welch, Mayor of the City of St.

Petersburg, do hear Bride proclaim the week of May 6th through May 12th, 2026, as National Nurses Week in the City of St.

Petersburg, and recognize the importance of nurses providing high quality care everywhere.

Thank you.

We've got Scott Smith from St.

Anthony's Hospital CEO.

He's going to say a couple words, and then maybe some of the leadership from uh the other institutions here as well.

Thank you, Mr.

Gerdas.

And it's uh on behalf of St.

Anthony's Hospital uh in Bay Care, just an honor and a privilege, and we really appreciate the recognition.

It's an honor and privilege to work with these individuals every day to see what they do on a daily basis.

And I think you articulated it better than anyone possibly could.

I see it every day.

Um, and in fact, I was just recently at a board meeting, and we were uh just having a couple of sidebar conversations, and somebody said, Really?

You see that stuff all the time.

I'm like, yeah, really.

They they deal with that all the time, they deal with it with a smile on their face, they deal with it with professionalism, they deal with people who are at the highest highs and at the lowest lows.

Um, I will tell you, it is it is an honor and a privilege to be able to interact with people when they are at their most vulnerable, when families are at their most vulnerable.

That is a time when lives get changed, families get changed, spirituality gets changed, and it is a great privilege.

It also comes with a great responsibility, and these nurses do it every single day.

So it's a privilege to work alongside of them.

Thank you very much for this recognition.

Councilmember, thank you, Ben Kirby from HCA, appreciate it.

Thank you for the recognition.

Uh well said, sir.

I think it's a privilege uh to be with you again.

It is a particular privilege to be with our nurses, uh, and thank them again for the work that they do on behalf of Nations Every day, your constituents.

Thanks for having us.

We appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you again.

I um also extend the gratitude on behalf of all of our nurses across the city of St.

Pete, and I think this is just a beautiful recognition of the impact they have across our community.

So thank you for the recognition.

Councilmember Fixanders.

Thank you.

First of all, I have to join my colleague Councilmember Gertis because in our everyday, you know, life is always life.

And, you know, we have so much experience of hospital stays, the good, the bad, the wonderful news, the not so wonderful news.

But I will tell you firsthand that the nurses make the stay.

But the nurses, the ones that provide that everyday care, that how are you this morning, that welcome.

I hate to wake you up.

Y'all know y'all can be real bothersome sometimes in the morning, but uh, but you know, we hate to wake up, but you always do it um with a smile.

And you're absolutely correct.

You are the face of our health care today, and I want to thank you all for what you did because even deciding to do this profession, you're already making a sacrifice.

When you have your bad days, you still have to give someone else a good day.

And so I I want to thank you for that because I have the the nurses I've experienced again, beginning of life.

My baby was the two-pounder, as well as the end of life when we had to pull the plug on my dad.

The nurses were there every step of the way.

And so I just needed to thank you all and ask you to continue to do what you do and to continue to breed the bread of kindness that you all have in your everyday profession.

Because we may take it for granted, um, but we do know that it takes an extra extra effort for you to come in every day and to see what you see and still be able to be that consistent act of kindness when we get there from the moment we leave until the moment we leave.

So again, thank you so much.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair.

Councilmember Givens, well said, um, both my colleagues, and again, thank you to each of you for your service.

Um I come from a family of nurses.

My grandmother was a nurse at Mercy Hospital.

Um, and my mom put in a number of years at Suncoast and Baycare before moving away.

And it was Suncoats and Baycare that put food on our table and put the three of us through college, and so I'm grateful for that.

But I'm also grateful for the support that you all offer to our constituents and to tourists and all of those people who utilize our hospital facilities here in the St.

Petersburg area.

You know, growing up I used to wonder why my mom was absent so much, and I actually used to get angry because she was always working.

But now I realize she was busy saving lives, and the sacrifice that she made for our family is evident in people who are still here and alive today.

And so I'm grateful for each of you and the sacrifices that you make on a daily basis.

You are heroes, unsung heroes, and you are the crucial and critical lifeline of support to all of our hospitals and medical institutions.

So thank you so much.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Councilmember Harding.

Thank you, Chair.

It is uh it is relevant and poignant that uh my wife texted me about 10 minutes before we started today a video.

She is uh at Moffett with one of her best friends, and today's the day she's ringing the bell.

So that her best friend.

Um and she scheduled it very particularly for uh today, because this is the day that she went every every uh week or whatever her schedule was.

Um and in the video you can clearly see that that she did it for a reason, and I knew this ahead of time.

It's the two nurses who took care of her.

She invited them.

That's the part, right?

That the the skill, that the amount of school you went you went through, that the the medical knowledge and ability you have, um, that that all is it is top line and most important.

That the amount of empathy that you bring is that that's the part.

And uh, and I thank you for that.

So I that that's one small example of things that are happening right now uh at our three main hospitals and all the clinics around here, literally all the time.

And uh, and I think that this is uh this one stands out.

I appreciate it being a part of this, and congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you all so much for being here today.

Uh it's nice when we get to start our meeting with uh something so optimistic and so good about our community.

So I really appreciate it.

Chair, can we give our first responders one more round of applause, please?

All right.

Uh moving on from awards and proclamations into new ordinances.

Uh, we have item E1, uh where we're setting a public hearing date.

Uh, believe you have to read the title, yeah.

If you want to take it away, clerk.

Uh proposed ordinance 637 that-h.

An ordinance of the city of St.

Petersburg amending the city code related to animals, adding a new section for 10 designating the city of St.

Petersburg as a bird sanctuary, providing for severality and providing an effective date.

The public hearing date for this ordinance is scheduled for May 28th, 2026.

We have no speakers.

We have Heather Judd with us if anyone has any questions.

So we'll go to Councilmember Driscoll.

Thank you.

Heather, did you want to share information first?

So just a quick update.

When we had this at committee, um, and in the review packet, you can see that the request is generally made under the administrative code for a January or a July hearing.

Um, we my colleague Sarah Lucker confirmed it today that this year they're not having a meeting in July, they're having a meeting in August.

So that's when we hope to have this heard in front of the commission.

Thank you.

Um I was excited to have support for this initiative that I proposed in committee.

Um it may seem like a small thing to designate our city as a bird sanctuary, but as our city grows and we want to make sure that we protect um what's what's special about our city, these things add up.

And so um I'm I'm thrilled that we've we've gotten it this far, and I will move approval.

Second, all right.

Seeing no further request to speak.

Will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your vote.

Seeing all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tally and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair, motion to approve agenda item E1 passes unanimously.

Councilmember Gabbard and Hannah was being absent.

Thank you.

All right, we'll move on to our reports item.

First up, uh item F1, a presentation uh on the Tampa International Airport update.

Yes.

Alright, we're joined by Michael Stevens, uh Tampa International Airport's Chief Executive Office Officer.

Nice to see you this afternoon.

It's great to see you as well, uh, Mr.

Vice Chairman to the distinguished members of the uh council staff and to everyone gathered here.

Uh good afternoon.

I'm Michael Stevens.

I have the honor and privilege of serving as uh chief executive officer of your airport, uh, America's favorite airport, Tampa International.

And I'm here today to give you an update on what is happening uh at your airport because it's very important for us to keep our community partners uh to keep our local officials up to date about what's um going on there at the airport.

And it's particularly gratifying and special for me to be here.

I've been in this role for about a year now and have been making sure that we continue to engage our community to figure out and find out what you want to see uh in your airport, what your issues are, things that we can do to make the experience for your citizens as well as this entire uh region better.

When you keep in mind that we have a huge component of our uh traveling public that comes from the city of St.

Petersburg as well as Pinellas County, approximately 27% of our travelers um who come to the airport uh, and and when you think about the importance of of the city of St.

Petersburg, it's really essential that you all are at the forefront of understanding what's going on there and influencing and informing the things uh that you want to see.

So I am going to talk about some of the big programs that we have, but just by the numbers, uh this has been an incredible um busy season for us.

We just closed out our spring break season that went from March 5th to about April 13th with about 100,000 travelers, projected to increase from what we were last year.

What does that mean for the airport?

Over that period of time, that's about 3.2 million people passing through that airport, roughly during that March 5th to April 13th period.

They're coming over here.

They're coming to see all of the vibe, all of the things happening in the city of St.

Petersburg.

They're coming over the bridge to Pinellas County to enjoy the beaches and all that's going on over here.

So we have been really focused on how to make that process, and those uh folks have a seamless stress reduced process coming through, as we know, uh travel has been incredibly stressful, particularly since we just experienced one of the uh historically longest government shutdowns.

Our TSA agents though have made it almost seamless.

When you think about uh what we've experienced, what we've seen in other parts of the country, wait times up to six hours, your airport, your community, this community didn't have to experience that anecdotally.

For those of you who follow our social media, and I hope that's everybody, if you don't, I encourage you all to follow our social media.

We get reports on there, you know, where you get the that anecdotal but kind of funny thing.

Like, darn it, I showed up here three hours early, and I'm so upset that I gotta wait for two hours and 45 minutes because I got through TSA so quickly.

That is a testament to how we try to make sure that we're able to deliver a superlative level of service.

And so they continue to help us uh make sure that we deliver what this community and what this region is looking for.

So, without further delay, I want to kind of give you a basic update on some of the big things that we have going on, and then I want to uh take an opportunity to take any questions that you all may have.

So, where we are today uh in our almost 55-year history, we just celebrated 55 years of operations uh this last April.

Uh we are experiencing dramatic growth within this region.

The city of St.

Petersburg is clearly indicative of some of that growth, and to prepare for that growth in the future, uh we are uh underway with probably one of the largest capital programs that we have had uh in the 55-year history of Tampa International, and that is Airside D.

And by way of just giving you a quick overview, you can see up here it's our newest airside in almost 20 years.

It is gonna be enormous.

It is going to tell a story about Tampa Bay, about this region that we all can continue to be proud of.

It's going to have two brand new uh club lounges, one being the Delta Lounge and one being an international common use lounge, uh brand new customs facility with state-of-the-art biometric uh processing technology to reduce the friction point and speed up the flow through.

Uh, it's gonna have new shopping and dining throughout there.

It is going to ask absolutely be extraordinary.

And the why is that that uh bottom uh bullet point.

We are preparing for almost 10 million additional passengers coming through this airport by 2037.

And when you see that type of volume, you don't wait until it's at your doorstep to be able to accommodate it.

So we've gotten out in front of it.

By way of scope and scale, many of you have been through Airside C.

That's where Southwest primarily flies out of.

It's our newest airside uh in terms of uh all the airsides that we have out there.

And as large as that is, about 320,000 square feet, this is gonna be double the size.

And it is going to be absolutely spectacular to be able to welcome folks to this region.

So I want to show this video, and sometimes they say, you know, uh pictures worth a thousand words where video is worth a million.

So I'm gonna go ahead and play this video to give you an idea of what it's gonna look like.

But we wanted to capture the beauty of this region.

Uh the waterways, the natural uh beauty, the aquatic life, all of those things, all of those things that draw people in.

We've been talking about what this is going to mean for this entire region and community because Tampa International is truly a regional and has always been a regional asset.

So this is the footprint as you know it today.

And in that dirt spot there is where Airside D is already coming to life.

So it is an exciting project.

A lot of the vertical work is happening now.

We start dropping steel in a few months.

And you can see the volume, been out there.

Uh, just look out there, you can see it from the Google Court area.

It is going to be a beautiful experience.

Some of the things that I want to point out as we go through here, you see glass jet purchase, taking in the sunlight, all the things that people come to Florida for ceiling glass.

That's capturing all the beauty as you arrive into that terminal.

This is a view coming up our red express curves that many of you have utilized that will get you out the airside Display.

And here's where the magic starts to happen, in my opinion.

You see the wood tones to reduce the stress requirements in the culture.

And what you will see and experience our travelers is massive volumes, digital screens that are in the ceilings, 40 plus foot vertical heights.

There's digital pools that you see down there.

We'll have some of our wildlife that are swimming in there and then the breach and they're jumping up in the city.

But it's not just for the wild factors to be able to tell our story.

If there's a grand free event over here or something that we need to activate, we can tell that story.

This is going to our customs facility.

If you come through Customs now, it's kind of like a basement field.

This is gonna be beautiful, light, airy, dramatic, biometric processing to get you in and out very quickly to grab your bags and then you're on your way to Tampa Bank.

So we are incredibly excited on what this community, what this region is gonna be able to experience uh with this new air side.

We are expecting for it to go live in Q1 of 2029, and uh we'll be talking about it in any place that you need us all to be.

There are a couple of things that are gonna be happening and are happening right now.

Our concessions redevelopment program is occurring right now.

We're making sure that we give everyone a sense of Tampa Bay.

So you're not coming through there and you just have some cookie cutter acme hamburger type of meal.

We want you to feel what Tampa Bay is like.

We want you to experience uh what folks are gonna be able to enjoy within this community.

So some of the milestones that are happening also concurrently, we're going through a public art program right now, so we can get artist representation.

We have artists coming from St.

Petersburg and Pinellas County and all over the region and the world to display their art uh at Tampa International and the uh in the new air side.

Structural steel is going up, our concessions are gonna be going out, so we want to make sure that you all are aware of that so you can talk to your citizens and your constituencies about how they can participate at a very basic bottom level.

This is also going to increase the economic activity that we have in the form of jobs, in the form of visitors, and in the form of being able to draw more businesses to the city of St.

Pete, to all of the surrounding counties and the region in general.

And so we are super excited about it.

Here's a little bit of information on our concessions program.

It's gonna be a multi-year program from 2026 to 2032, and uh that is gonna be everything from restaurants to common use lounges to our retail uh stores to duty free, you name it.

The way that uh you experience the airport is gonna be elevated, just like how we're seeing the city of St.

Petersburg elevate and what it offers to its citizens.

So we are excited.

Here's some additional information.

If anyone wants to scan that QR code, and it will take you to our concessions development site.

So you can get information if you are a vendor or you want to participate in the program, it will put you in contact with whomever you need to speak to.

And I'll give you all a second to take a look at that.

And that is my presentation, Mr.

Vice Chairman and members of the council, and I'm delighted to answer any questions that you may have.

Wonderful.

Councilmember Gertis.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Vice Chair.

Mr.

Stevens, I've figured out why they selected you as CEO because you tell that story pretty damn well.

I appreciate it.

And so thank thank you for sharing it with us.

And I was, I I think not too long ago, you shared that same story at Visit St.

Pete Clearwater TDC, and I was unable to be there, and now I'm real upset that I wasn't, and I didn't get the preview to this.

But just uh very thankful for your passion, you can tell.

Uh, and for and frankly, your commitment to the region.

Um, when there, you know, there's there's a lot of talk, obviously, all the time about Tampa and St.

Pete and Clearwater, and can we get together?

Should we not?

All of those things, and uh it's just very refreshing to hear somebody talk very passionately about the regionalism and the importance, and frankly, St.

Pete's role in that, uh, not only from a feeling standpoint, but from a data, and so uh very, very appreciative of that.

I also want to say just a couple of thank yous, and you brought them up.

I had the uh unfortunate for fortunate, unfortunate uh of traveling during the uh the shutdown, and the experience of going through TPA compared to every other airport I traveled to was uh a very stark difference.

And so I hope all of the employees over there uh know how much we appreciate that experience that they gave us during what was a very contentious time, and people had smiles on their faces and they were doing their jobs and they got us through.

I don't think I waited more than 10 or 15 minutes uh to get into Airside C.

And so very thankful for that.

Also, I you set the bar for social media.

It's pretty incredible.

My wife and I send TPA memes back and forth to each other, and so uh I if I didn't bring that up, she would yell at me because almost certainly she's listening.

And so I just the way you guys create content but also disseminate information at the same time is pretty incredible.

And you you guys really have a magic sauce going there right now, and just very very thankful for that.

Um, and then last but not least, just this is personally very excited for Airside D for a lot of different reasons.

It's great to see the airport growing, and and that in turn is going to help St.

Pete, just like you were talking about St.

Pete and the beaches and all of uh this regional community grow as well.

But I think Airside D really is us getting to the next level, and I think that's I again I'll speak for me personally.

I think that's where I would like to see St.

Pete is to continue to get to the next level, and I think Airside D helps with that, just from a look, a feel standpoint of what you walk into in that air side, and I'm very excited to hear some of the improvements coming to the rest of the airport.

Although it's all our airport's awesome, I'm not complaining.

But I think uh you're gonna set a level with D that I think the rest of the airport I think is gonna have to catch up with.

So I don't I don't have any questions.

Again, just wanted to share some of some of my experience and feedback and just say thank you.

And I hope you know, uh, and I probably speak for all of us that uh what we're we're here, we want to be partners.

Please come back uh every year and give us this update because this is exciting.

This is you know, this is all part of the Tampa Bay family.

So thank you so much for your leadership.

Well, thank you, Councilman Gerdes, and that means an awful lot to us.

We never get tired of uh hearing uh what you all are experiencing and enjoying, and even when you're not enjoying it, that's when I need to know that as well.

So you all have my commitment uh whether or not I get the information to your staff, so I'll give you my personal uh numbers so you can reach out to me if there's anything that you're seeing or your citizens are seeing that we need to know about, and we'll get that taken care of.

Last but not least, on the social media plug, I got to point out my man over here.

This is Josh.

Josh, raise your hand.

He is responsible uh and leads uh our social media team, and they do an extraordinary job.

We have a lot of fun with it, but uh it also serves a strategic purpose because we have about 700 plus thousand folks on our social media uh platforms, which when things happen and we need to get the message out, we have uh enormous uh platform to be able to activate.

So uh we appreciate all the the incredible comments.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Yes, uh thank you, Councilmember Givens.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you so much.

Michael, good to see you again as always.

Uh, and thank you for telling our story.

Um, I don't think anyone could have told it better, and I'm excited that Airside D is really gonna help to tell the story of the Tampa Bay region.

Um, I already went on the website and looked at the concessions link, so thank you for that.

That answered one of my questions.

Is there something similar for public art?

Because I'm thinking about our muralists and other people like that here in the St.

Petersburg area who have a lot to offer, great talent, great opportunity.

How are they able to take part in some of these new opportunities going to be on the horizon?

So, Councilmember Gibbons, thank you so much.

It's good to see you as well.

Um, we have been out broad and wide, so we have great representation uh from City of St.

Petersburg, Pinellas County, the entire region for this art program.

I believe we had almost a thousand plus submissions, right?

Because it's an exciting uh space to be.

We want to show off uh all of the amazing things that are happening over here in the city of St.

Petersburg throughout the region.

So we did a far broad uh and deep call for artists, and they answer the call probably beyond what we expected.

So the short answer is St.

Petersburg uh is represented in the mix very well.

That's great news.

Awesome.

My other question for you.

Um we saw recently we lost Spirit Airlines.

Yes.

Um, how did that impact this uh Tampa Bay region?

Obviously, there's a number of employees here at the Tampa International Airport who are now about jobs.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

You know, that's a great question.

So let's start from your your your question about jobs.

So we have had um team members from Spirit displaced, and when we think about the folks that work at Tampa International, there's about 750 airport employees, but we have about 10,000 plus people on our campus, including those spirit employees, and so it has been a tremendous effort to try to find placement for them.

A lot of them will get picked up by um either other airlines where their opportunities there or they will get redeployed to where um you know other other uh capacity is required.

So we are helping with those efforts where we can, making sure that our team is facilitating everything from job fare, as many of you all know.

We put out a massive job fare.

Uh, we're gonna continue to do that and try to pipeline those employees that are displaced with uh spirit to help them find gainful employment.

As it relates to traffic and as it relates to uh connectivity, there's not gonna be a drag on connectivity for Tampa International or for this region.

And the reason why is because every route that Spirit flew, we had uh other carriers flying into those areas.

So there was always part of our DNA and our strategic planning is to have good competition in the vast majority of markets, so you don't suffer uh circumstance where if one carrier goes away, then there is a drag on connectivity.

The final point that I make is that to juxtapose how that shows up in Orlando Spirit is a huge part of their traffic.

So when Spirit goes away in Orlando, for example, they're hurting because connectivity is significantly impaired.

The second point with with your airport versus, say, in Orlando, most of our traffic that we have is what we call origination and departing traffic, meaning that they start here or they're coming here.

It's not a hub, it's not changing.

So the mix of carriers that we have, we have a really balanced mix.

No carrier really carries much more than 26% of our traffic.

What that means is unlike Orlando, where Spirit is a large share of their traffic.

If Spirit goes away, or if you have uh international pressures like we've been seeing in the global economy and tourism goes down, Orlando is on on pneumonia mode uh compared to us, where we still adjust to it.

Uh, and I say all that uh to say that we have much more resilience and flexibility in this Tampa Bay market to help uh a spirit and continue to connect people to where they want to go.

That is awesome news.

And my last question, I'm looking at my friend Walt Driggers there with Albert Wood, it I'm thinking about our local airport.

Um, is there uh a need in on the horizon for more air traffic controllers?

How can we here at the local level support you with meeting needs like that like that, filling those gaps when it comes to technical trade aviation?

Is there a need and how can we help you meet it here?

Councilman, you must be reading my script, man, because you uh you're getting out in front of and answering some of the very things that I want to talk about.

We are already doing a lot of that work.

I'll give you a primary example.

Uh one of the initiatives that we started when I became CEO is to activate uh relationships with St.

Pete College, um, to activate relationships with Hillsborough College.

So St.

Pete College hosted us there to really look at how we can fill aviation jobs, right?

How do we create a workforce pipeline starting all the way from our high schoolers to our trade schools to our community colleges or state colleges to pipeline those folks into the airport?

That work is well underway.

Uh there has been a lot of uh collaboration uh on that and a lot of effort on that.

The other thing when we talk about the airports over here, uh many of you have been hearing me really uh lean into this notion of regional connectivity.

I know uh Councilwoman Driscoll, you and I have had some some brief conversations on it.

My view is that when we talk about it from a regional standpoint, we're going to have to create that connectivity, not only on our surface uh roadways and how we connect, but also in our airways.

So starting with the surface, and I'll work back to Albert Wittett.

Starting with the surface, part of the thing that I've been leaning on is trying to create connectivity from a multimodal center across the Howard Franklin over here to Carolina, eventually down here.

I believe that we can do that.

There's no question in my mind.

More immediately, though, we are now planning for uh connectivity and reimagining the very first commercial aviation flight that happened right here in St.

Petersburg, right over to Tampa Bay with a guy named Tony Janis.

Now we're gonna use new technology that we're rolling out now called electric vertical takeoff and landing.

We already have done the routes, so our plan is to repeat that, but with new technology.

So coming from Albert Wittitt and landing at Peter O'Knight over on Davis Island.

So we already have been talking to FDOT about that.

We're talking about building and activating verte ports and a number of things.

So we are we are well underway, sir.

Great information.

I'm just excited that we are moving in the right direction on this.

Um, you know, the field of aviation is vast, and I was over there at the airport this week with Barrington Irving, and he gave a striking presentation.

And one of the things that really inspires me with him is he represents um I think something that we need, which is diversity in the field of aviation.

So I'm excited that you're working with St.

Pete College because this is going to show young people that whether you're on the ground or in the sky, there's a job for you somewhere in aviation.

And it's not just a minimum wage paying job.

We're talking living wage-paying jobs and not just jobs but careers.

So thank you for what you're doing.

I really appreciate it, Michael.

I'm excited to see this go further.

My pleasure, and you all have my absolute commitment.

I will tell you, um, it's talking to these young people and telling them the possibilities.

I wouldn't be standing here before you if somebody hadn't uh shown me what was possible.

I started my career as an air traffic controller in the U.S.

Air Force and had no idea.

I used to think air traffic controllers is dudes with the orange cones, you know, doing that stuff on the ground until someone told me what was possible.

And as a result of that, even though I went to law school and all these other things, that's why I'm standing in front of you as as the the leader of your airport because somebody reached out, and that's what we're trying to do.

Making history yourself, so thank you so much.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Councilmember Flick Sanders.

Thank you, and welcome again, Mr.

Stevens.

Um, we met when you came to present at PSTA.

We held a meeting there, and um I'm the current chair of PSTA and I was impressed with you then.

And I have to agree with Councilmember GERDIS.

Now I see why you were definitely selected for that position because you have made um the transition and the mission of TPA um very very visible for us to see where you're going with your mission.

So I want to thank you on that.

Now I don't have a whole lot of questions, but I do have some uh a statement.

Again, I am um very appreciative of your regional um objective uh outlook with providing regional services.

I also wanted to remind you of the ADA.

Now I use the airport a lot.

Um and generally when I look at airport usage, I look at our ADA amenities and how easy it is for our ADA passengers to navigate through the airport.

And I just never want to miss the opportunity to advocate on behalf of our our citizens.

We have, you know, the airport is large, you know, and sometimes trying to get from point A to point B.

If you don't have a porter there to help transport them, that leaves them in a in a bind.

So I always want to um speak on behalf of ADA um our our writers for that.

Um and my last one, since all of my other questions and everything were um already asked and you'd already uh explained them so well, uh glad that you're having the communication with SPC and um trying to get that program going.

I am so honored um to have been in that communication, but I have to tell you, when I saw it and we talked about shopping, I just came from a flight, and hopefully my husband isn't listening.

But when you have those shops, it's like, okay, how am I supposed to get this home?

You have all of this there, and I just had to laugh when I saw all the shopping that you're gonna have because you all limit us at what we could take on the plane, and so are you all gonna watch all of those things for me?

I'm being facetious, but I do spend money every time I go into the airport.

So I just kind of wanted to put you on on notice that um those of us that are shopping holics, when we get in there, we need to have somewhere to be able to put it on the plane and leave it when we get back.

So I just thought that I would just give you that little anecdotal because of my last experience on the airport.

We we, you know, they they limit your bags, I purchase we had to check all that stuff in, which added an additional cost.

So I saw your shopping and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna have to say something out loud and speak that so I stay away from the shopping, but I just wanted you to know don't be too dangerous with the shopping opportunities with those of us that shop.

But again, I I am just so honored that you are here and you made such a wonderful presentation on behalf.

If I had an extra few million, I would want to invest and participate on that as well.

But thank you so much and welcome.

I look forward to seeing you again.

Thank you, councilwoman.

It's uh a delight to be here, and I I'll see what I can do to uh feed your shopping habit while you're at the airport.

All right, councilmember Horning.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Stevens, thank you very much for the update.

We appreciate it.

Um the uh the core competency of of what you do is is pretty simple um to state, hard to do.

It's just to move people around and you do it in the millions and you guys do it very, very well.

I uh I I wanted the chance to commend you and and your board and your leadership team on the decision to keep the the airport right sized.

Um that is at your scale that's a hundred million dollar decision or a hundred million dollar risk and uh and not easy to do, but that is uh the the reason.

Um I don't know how how much you share, but a vast uh a vast part of the reason that we're able to garner all these tourism dollars and how these people visit it is comes through one in the grand scheme of things one very small piece of uh of our geography, and that is uh that is your airport.

Um although I appreciate you referring to it as ours.

Um, it's currently yours.

And um and and beyond that, that that is what you do for a living.

You move people around.

You you don't have to be hospitable.

You just don't.

Um I've been to plenty of airports that aren't um efficient at moving people around, but that's it.

Your team to a fault is hospitable.

Um there's clearly a culture of it at the at that airport, and uh and I want to commend you on that as well.

Um last is uh it is that you don't have to talk about the community.

Um you don't have to let people know where they're coming.

Uh the decision to invest time, energy, effort, and money into making the airport not only the gateway to our community, but the the the embodiment of our community is much appreciated.

Um that airport is well beyond um well beyond just a place to come in.

You really get a sense of of of what you're entering and and what you're leaving, quite frankly, um when you use your airport.

And so, so the the core competence, the core competency, you all you guys nailed it.

Um the other two big pieces, you don't have to, and you did, but you did it at a uh at a big level.

And last on my list, um Josh, I uh in my other job, um, I have a uh uh I work with a company that uh that we brand stuff, so marketing, advertising, social media is a big part of what we do.

And as uh as council member Girdis was uh was talking, I texted our our marketing team um and said uh you guys might need to look into this.

There might be something to learn, and the response I got was we're aware.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Councilman.

I appreciate all those kind words.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Um I'll just say a couple of things real quick.

Uh first, uh, thank you for coming and presenting.

Uh the I guess the number one thing I'd want to impart upon uh everyone at the airport is uh keep up the good work.

Um I don't think anyone that's been through the airport to visit me or uh anyone that I know that's left uh from here to go somewhere else uh has had uh could have gotten a better impression, is what I would say.

It's very efficient, very smooth, uh, and honestly like kind of a pleasant place to be.

And I don't like flying at all, so that's saying a lot.

So keep up the good work um to the social media team.

Uh I'm sorry, I spam you occasionally, begging for flights to Manchester, England.

Um, so uh I'll probably continue that.

That's on my wife's behalf, and uh that's it's really been incredible to see um the engagement that the airport gets with the community.

Uh and then the last thing is uh I feel like you touched on it, but I want to uplift it again.

Um continuing to better transportation and transit, specifically connections to the airport.

Uh I really look forward to working with you all on that going forward.

Uh and I feel like if we're really going to um make our region what it is, uh, that's a key, a very key part of it is how well we can connect each other and the airport's a big part of that.

So uh I've heard you advocate for that in other meetings and here today as well.

So I I want to let you know that I think uh most of us, if not all of us up here agree and and want to make that happen.

Well I appreciate that, Mr.

Vice Chair, thank you so much.

Um I it just in conclusion, you all have my commitment uh what um uh councilman Harding is uh saying about how we are intentional in making sure that when people come to this region that they feel welcome, that they feel special, it's not performative, it's in our DNA, it moves the needle when we're going out and you all are going out seeking business for businesses to relocate here.

They want to know two things.

Primarily, can I connect to other places?

And then they want to feel are they gonna feel seen and heard and responded to?

And so that's my job.

That's job number one, and you have my commitment to continue that as well as the commitment of our entire team.

But again, thank you for allowing me to be here with you this afternoon.

I'm greatly appreciative.

And if you all need anything, do not hesitate to reach out to me and uh let me know.

We have come one more comment.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Sorry, I had to uh still work for a moment, but um, I just wanted to thank you for being here and for giving us this great update and for all that you are doing to really advance a regional state of mind um among our our counties, um, not just Pinellas and Hillsborough, but PASCO as well.

And as we move forward with our conversations um and votes um regarding the um regional the MPO merger and creating a regional MPO, um, the things that you're doing are going to help advance that idea.

It will help us um get stronger as we move towards hopefully implementation of that.

Um and you've got great examples here.

The stories that you're telling about um regionalism, not just as being in a regional asset, but bringing in artists, bringing in vendors from around the Tampa Bay area, um, really should give everyone confidence that you having a seat at the table in that regional MPO, um is uh not only earned but necessary.

And um everything that you're doing is playing to that, and I really appreciate it.

Well, thank you for those kind words, Councilwoman.

And and as I said, you know, we've talked about it uh in in other forums.

Um it's important because if we continue in this parochial way, Tampa International suffers, we can't grow, the region can't grow, and then people vote with their pocketbooks and with their feet, and then they stop coming here.

So we all have a vested interest in doing what we can, but thank you for that.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Vice Chair.

Thank you, members of council, delight to be with you all today.

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Thank you.

All right, we're going to move on to item F2.

Um, and we're joined by Beth Herandine.

This was a consent agenda item pulled by Councilmember Driscoll.

If you want to say anything about it, then go ahead.

Yes, thank you.

Um, just in light of the conversations we were uh starting to have last week during our budget workshop regarding the Mahaffey and how the city is going to fill this gap while we um continue to find the right partner for the Mahaffe.

Um, there's a lot um uh to consider.

Um one of and and I I support the allocation of funding.

I mean, we can't we can't just take over and expect to not spend any additional funding.

So um I'm supportive of that.

Um but as I as I read through this resolution, I can't help but think about how we have we we don't have anything in there um specifically about the Florida Orchestra, and the the reason I bring this up, couple of reasons.

Um number one, you know, they the agreement that we have has still for a few more days with Big Three Entertainment, um, you know, specific expressly states that the Florida Orchestra is to be prioritized, right?

Um their contract is with Big Three Entertainment, but they don't even have one at this time, and so that is a gap that I think really needs to be addressed now through this resolution.

Um, you know, they've they've always been, you know, kind of the the prime tenant of the Mahaffey, and I think it's important that that be in this resolution.

Um they don't have a signed agreement for the Mahaffey for the 2026-2027 season.

And if you know about the planning of something like this, it goes far out.

And so that creates a high degree of uncertainty.

Um I don't have a good comfort level with that being in place.

I had mentioned last week that um I believe that the city should contract directly with the Florida Orchestra, and now I think it's more important than ever because they don't have a contract with anyone, and so there's no there's no security in that.

Um we really should stand by what we said with our contract with big three that this is um you know a priority for the Mahaffey and there as they start to work on planning for the 2027-2028 season.

That plan is kind of like when we're play when we're working on the budget, right?

You finish the budget and then you start on the next one right away.

There's really not a break in between, and that's how this type of work works.

So I had been um thinking about this.

I don't expect everything to be solved today, but I I would like to know what my colleagues think about doing an um an amendment to this resolution, something simple, um, that simply um folds in and recognizes the Florida Orchestra.

And has the administration work towards contracting directly with them.

Otherwise, I mean, I it's not an exaggeration to say that we could lose the Florida Orchestra over this because they don't have any guarantees that they have a home here at all.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Um so I've met with the orchestra multiple times.

Um part of today's resolution is to allowing administration to assign or take over the existing.

Now that's correct, that's just for the few uh dates that we have left this season.

Um we do have dates with the Florida Orchestra on the calendar for next season.

Um we've met several times there working with the general manager who is staying on, uh and I was actually speaking with McCall uh Dyer earlier.

Uh what we do need to do is bring back to council a resolution allowing us to enter into new agreements, and that was the next step.

So I see McCall stepping up.

I'll let her address that.

Let me just chime in council.

Uh appreciate the opportunity to speak.

So before you as uh, you know, obviously an appropriation um of funds needed, but it's also just there's certain contracts that big three has related to the operations that the city may want to assume in the short term.

Um but in regards to any type of lease, license or use agreement, um similar to what happened when we took started um when we went from management um private management of the peer to to self-management, we brought a resolution to council which authorized the mayor or his designee to be able to execute leases and licenses under one year.

A delegation of authority will be needed here, and we intend to bring that I think probably in one of the June meetings, it's um will allow for the um execution of leases and licenses under one year, and then any lease or license over a year would just be individually brought to council for consideration um if it related to use of the of the theater facility.

And does that mean that if the city contracts directly with the Florida Orchestra, that that would be um negotiated created and executed without any input or approval of city council?

If it was under a year and you authorized the blanket authority, yes.

If it was if it was a longer term uh use agreement or license agreement, say two, three years, that agreement would be individually brought, or you could designate if there were certain things that you wanted to uh see returned, we could obviously um add anything that council was requesting in their resolution as part of the approval.

So that's right.

So it so council member that that's completely up to city council.

So when that comes to you, when when the broader resolution that McCall is talking about comes to you, if there are certain things you always wanted to see that can be in that resolution, that's gonna be up to council just to decide what you do and don't want to see moving forward, and that's more of just the general resolution that would cover a variety of agreements for the Mahathi.

Not specifically, it's not specific to the orchestra.

Right, right.

This is just one that I I believe is unique because they are um the prime tenant of um the orchestra.

It's it's not like they're the um the beverage distributor or or something like that, you know.

Um and I I really I appreciate that we are having this conversation today because I really would like to have and I believe the Florida Orchestra would like to have some certainty um going forward with this.

I I know we have Ignacio from uh the CEO of TFO is here today, and I'm sure if anyone had any questions for me, I don't mean to put him on the spot, but he would probably be willing to answer any questions.

Um but I did have some um uh draft verbiage for an amendment that I have shared with the city attorney's office in case um in case I have enough agreement here that we really should say something in this resolution to um uh protect and give some some confidence to the Florida orchestra moving forward.

We're in strange times, we're not used to just taking over, you know, taking back the Mahaffey and taking over and knowing that this is um temporary, we don't know how long temporary is going to be.

So I would like to get some of this stuff taken care of up front.

I'm happy to share the language if there's an interest in any of this, and at this time I'd love to hear from my colleagues because I finally get to talk to you all about it.

Thank you.

Councilmember Fig Sanders.

Thank you.

Um and thank you for bringing this up, Councilmember Driscago.

In the conversations that I've had, and thank you, McCall, and thank you for being here.

In the conversations that I've had originally with the Florida Orchestra taking over the management of the Mahaffey, I was supportive, but I I had a pause um in regards to how we would prioritize the different entertainment that took place in the Mahaffey.

So then when it was recognized that the city was gonna take over of the management of it, it did come to mind as to so then the Florida Orchestra, now what?

It's kind of like you're in uh uh an apartment building and the management changes and you have a lease that ties you into a certain time frame, but then after that, what do you do?

So again, I have to agree with Councilmember Driscoll that they have been a long-term long-term tenant, and with the amount of money that they not only spend, they bring in a good amount of revenue as well.

And I think it would be beneficial for the city of St.

Petersburg to engage in some type of conversation that gives them a surety that they'll be here.

So I hear I heard what you said, McCall, about bringing up a larger resolution in June, but this ends May 18th.

And so although they have programming planned, I don't see where there's anything that is in and nothing is in in cement.

We know nothing is in stone.

But me as a tenant and a long-term tenant where I have a lot of um people whose lives are dependent on having that income, you know, because they do pay bills for their employers.

I I I would imagine, especially for our musicians that are part of the orchestra, that they will want to have some type of certainty as to what their future looks like.

So when I hear we'll bring it back, if I were to leave here today and not know I didn't, you know, didn't have certainty of having a paycheck next month, that still would not give me comfort um and knowing what the partnership is.

And again, no, we did not anticipate um big three entertainment um terminating, you know, the agreement early.

We did not.

Um, but the wonderful thing about the city of St.

Petersburg is that we are definitely resilient and we would love to uphold our commitments to those that have brought us success, especially as far as the Mahaffey is since is is concerned.

So I too would love to see some type of certainty for the Florida Orchestra, who has been a major, major part of the Mahaffey.

That's their home, pretty much, you know.

So imagine someone coming to use a notice saying you have X amount of time to leave when you have built such a foundation and such a reputation favorable for the entertainment in the city of St.

Petersburg.

So I'm I'm interested to hear what others say, but that also came to mind.

So thank you, Council.

And if I could clarify for just one moment, because we've had this delay in the R and will be reissuing the RFP for the next season, we will have the city as the manager will have to enter into a contract, but just quite honestly because we will be the manager, so the same way big three has the contract now, the city would have to enter into that contract.

Just truthfully, we're focused right now on getting everything in place for the for the you know, assigning everything that we have now, and then once that uh happens next week, we'll we would be working on contracts for the next season.

But I understand, but I just want to let you know it is on our radar.

We we and we have we have met.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

But if it is such a certainty today, then it should, you know, if it's gonna be a certainty for next week, it should be a certainty for today.

So that's I just I just put that out again.

Whenever you have those gray areas with something as valuable as this, um, there's no comfort level for that, but thank you for that response, so I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Goethe.

Thank you, Mr.

Vice Chair.

Um, McCall, it's uh it sounds like you're you would rather there be two resolutions rather than make this amendment or let me say I'll field that one.

So I think there's there's we have no preference uh on which way it's addressed.

I think the the language that was just distributed uh suggested by council member Driscoll addresses the this issue, the Florida Orchestra in the resolution before you today.

Um that's not a difficult thing for for us to do.

I will highlight that it's a request.

It has to be in the form of a request to administration to negotiate the agreement.

Um so this is from a legal standpoint perfectly fine with us.

What McCall was talking about is the broader resolution.

There's more than one way to skin this count.

So it can be in this resolution or it could be in the resolution that McCall mentioned from a legal standpoint, it matters not to us.

I so council member Driscoll, give you my feedback real quickly, just having read it.

Like, I don't I don't have a problem with what you're asking.

I support what you're asking.

I'm just my my concern is that I don't know that I have seen us do an appropriation of funds and a trans and a transfer along with a request, and it just seems wonky to me.

I again if you're telling me it's okay and and that's the will of the body, then I then I'm willing to move forward, but it just I I don't remember doing it this way.

F from a legal standpoint, council member, just two different actions.

They can on the same resolution, they can coexist, sure, from a legal standpoint.

That was my biggest concern, Councilmember.

It's just it was it was a little out of the box for me.

I I totally appreciate what you're trying to accomplish here.

Um and I've had conversations with with the Florida Orchestra.

I I support the Florida Orchestra and want them to I don't think anybody wants them to go anywhere.

I think Beth is probably at the top of that list along with you, council member, and so um I I think everybody is lockstep.

They want the Florida orchestra here.

I was just making sure procedurally that it was it was something we could accomplish all together, and we weren't making it more wonky than we need to rather than just doing a singular resolution because all I see is Beth over here nodding her head to everything that you're saying, and so that gives me comfort that they're gonna do it.

Uh so but if if that's the will of the body, then uh I'm happy to go along.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Or excuse me, Mr.

Vice Chair.

Thank you.

Uh go ahead.

You can go ahead, Councilmember Driscoll.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I was on autopilot.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone.

And you know, I did um uh think about uh coming up with a separate resolution, um, but it's really more about time.

I mean, if you can imagine what it must feel like to be the Florida Orchestra right now, with um not only this season um continuing next season being planned and then the season after that underway.

Any time that the ground is not firm under your feet, it is not a good thing.

And we know we want the Florida Orchestra to call the Mahaffey home.

Even I was at one of the concerts one time, um, maybe it was last year um when um Mayor Welch gave the opening remarks and um you know proclaimed that we want this to be the home of the Florida Orchestra, and um that just um uh made my day uh to hear him say that.

And so given that we uh the the time it would have taken for me to draft a resolution, put in a new business item, uh all of all of the things with the deadlines that we have, um, I wouldn't have been able to do it today.

This is a way to to just express express our our priorities along with this.

Um you'll see in the the draft that I distributed that the language isn't harsh, it doesn't tie anyone's hands, it's a request, um, but it does have a value statement in it, and that is that we value and want to keep the Florida Orchestra.

So that's where uh my sense of urgency is about it's really just to give them the respect I feel they've earned.

Thank you.

Here, if I if I could just briefly for to give council some information just to let you know that we're we're fine with this language, um, we're comfortable, we're working with the orchestra now.

So if this is language that uh council wants in the resolution, we don't have any issue with it.

Thank you for that.

And if I and I would just like to uh if I may um apologize to the orchestra.

We've we've been talking and I and I didn't really I this was underway and we absolutely intend for them to be here uh next season and many many many seasons and um and and we just couldn't get it all done right away.

So but we are absolutely intending to make that happen.

Thank you.

All right.

Um I waited to hear everybody, and it sounds like we're uh coalescing around uh things that I feel good about.

Uh I guess first, uh yeah, the resolution that I see is different from what we've done in the past, but I don't have an issue with that.

I guess just thinking out loud, I may have just uh just made a motion in general, and this had this not been brought forward to ask the same thing um without any sort of resolution, but this is fine with me.

Um I think mostly what I want to say, I have two things, they're very brief.

Let me pull my notes up.

Uh first is uh like to Councilmember Gertis's point.

Uh everybody likes orchestra, no one wants to see them go, and I know that that's the case, but I do feel like over the last few years uh they have not been given adequate attention.

And uh have they have big plans, like to uh really solidify St.

Petersburg as their home.

Uh they're working to help invest in uh the facility um uh that they play at the Mahaffey uh that you know they applied for the TDC funds, they uh want to be able to give their funders assurances as to their future, and I mentioned this in the budget hearings or the budget workshop, sort of in passing, but when we're considering our relationship with them, I think we need to consider that they want to solidify their future as well, and so I don't I agree that everybody I think supports the orchestra, it's just I think we could act with a little more urgency on it, and I think that's why you're seeing this here today.

And uh I and then to your point about uh Council Member Driscoll to your point about wanting to have a direct agreement with them, yeah.

I mean, I'm on board like uh I have talked with them and big three about what that relationship looked like in the past and what the language and the contract led to, and I don't think it was acceptable.

I think that they should have had more assurances than that, and I think that council member Driscoll continues to bring up a way that we can do that for them, even if it is outside of the box a little bit for us.

Uh then a side note uh completely uh tangentially related is we're having a lot of discussions about the theater.

Um I guess this actually is more related to the actual resolution that was initially brought, and uh us you know having to uh take over um operations of the theater and talking about another RFP.

Well, I'm open to another RFP, uh, but we're having we're about to have to do a lot of work to be able to do the operations, and you know, I'm if depending on how it goes, I'm gonna want to see what the actual positives are of doing another RFP, especially if there's financial implications, but if things are going well for us and uh it makes financial sense, you know, I could see us continuing uh with the path that we have uh I would say slipped onto now most recently.

So uh keep that in mind that I would be supportive and advocate for us to uh continue to do what makes sense for us.

Um but I I'm open to another RFP for sure.

Um, but there's a lot of things with the theater that are just unclear right now, and so I see how we got in this situation.

Until we clear all of them up, you know, our our uh operation of it makes sense, and uh whenever we decide to go in another direction, I think it needs to be, you know, thought through.

And I I administration has heard me say this about many things before, and y'all have been receptive to it a lot lately, so uh especially just the fact like asking for us to totally analyze the full picture, and so I assume that you plan on doing that, and I saw you nodding both of you nodding your heads in agreement.

Uh so I'll leave it there.

Um, and I see no other request to speak, so I'll entertain uh motion.

I'll move approval of item F two as amended.

All right.

I heard a second as well, so uh no one has anything to say.

Yeah, you look like you might as well say a little something.

No, I just wanted to say, although this gap is unexpected, I do think it opens an opportunity for us to really look at things, and that's our intention.

So excellent.

That's that's exactly what I want to hear.

And I think we could learn a lot from it as well as to uh what the most efficient way to do things would be.

Um, and I would like to thank all of the departments who have been helping us with the actual transition.

So, yeah, absolutely.

HR dots, and not just efficient, everyone effective for the whole community as well, because it's more than just about efficiency for a resource like this.

Okay, uh we have a motion and a second for F2 as amended.

Clerk, will you please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing that all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tally and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair, motion to approve a genome F2 as amended, passes unanimously.

With council members Gabbard and Hannah Wisp being absent.

Thank you very much, and thank you, Councilmember Driscoll for a healthy conversation.

Um we are going to move on to item F3.

Uh which was also pulled from consent, but it was pulled by Chair Hanowitz.

Uh and so if uh Rich Lesniak is here.

We can go ahead and take this up.

Uh it's a resolution adopting rules and regulations and minimum standards for the Albert Witted Airport.

Um I don't know exactly why it was pulled, but I will, you know, I think you can speak to it a little bit.

Sure.

I'll I'll I'll I can give you a uh basic overview, and I believe there was some uh comments uh specific comments emailed to city council as a whole yesterday so I can address those.

Okay.

Yeah, so item C B 10 is uh it's a resolution requesting to adopt specific primary management uh compliance documents for the airport.

Um I should note that these documents are uh tied to item J2, which is up later uh tonight under the public hearings.

Um so as you know, Albert Whited is a general aviation uh uh airport whose operation falls under the jurisdiction of the federal aviation administration, certainly with further obligations tied to the fact that we accept federal grants.

Now the FA mandates that public use airports must be available for use by the general public without unjust discrimination, meaning the airport owner must operate the facility in a safe, efficient manner, providing fair, reasonable terms, and adhering to standards regarding maintenance operation, land use compatibility, among other FA regulations and requirements.

And to that end, the FAA recommends uh that the F that airports should establish primary management compliance documents, which provide uniform guidance and set minimum parameters for airport use and operation.

Now, there are different types of these documents, but probably the two most common you will see in the airport world are rules and regulations and minimum standards.

Now, rules and regulations, I think it's fairly self-explanatory.

Certainly, multiple uh facilities in multiple industries use rules and regulations in airports are no different.

But minimum standards, on the other hand, are baseline requirements that is set by an airport operator for an individual entity desiring to provide specific aeronautical services or operations on the airport.

So, for example, they want to sell fuel, they want to establish uh maintenance or air charter or a whole host of aeronautical services.

In addition, they also provide requirements if there are entities that wish to build or develop facilities on an airport to also provide these services.

Now, currently, chapter six of the city code is the de facto rules and regulations for the airport.

And there was a standalone minimum standards document that was adopted by the city in the early 2000s.

Certainly given the age, passage of time, industry changes, etc., both documents have been due for an update.

Now we hired a company called Aviation Management Consulting Group.

They are a aviation airport consulting company that has clients all over the United States, including many airports, and one of their specialties is development of primary management consulting documents.

So we worked with the consultant in conjunction with city legal, and we did come up with significantly completed drafts of these documents.

Now I should note that there were three draft documents.

First, chapter six, which I said was the de facto rules and regulations, was amended and re and rewritten.

We developed a separate standalone rules and regulations document and a separate minimum standards document, which are the two documents requested for under CB 10.

Once we had the drafts completed, we did put these out for a public comment period, and which did result in some comments questions.

I think we had at least 10, maybe 15 comments received.

In fact, I think in the backup packet, there's a listing of the comments in addition to the initial responses.

And so really the main changes that were achieved, as I said, we create we've created brand new standalone rules and regs and brand new standalone minimum standards documents.

Now, these documents will be subordinate to and referenced under the new Chapter 6 rewrite, which has been rewritten to a more broad and high-level standard.

And as I said, there's a public hearing item J2, that is for chapter six because it's a code that has to go through an ordinance process, whereas the two rules and regs and minimum standards only require a resolution.

So that's why they're two separate.

So really most of the changes within these documents, basically from the old or existing, are that are clarifications and updates based on changes with industry, proven models and frameworks used by other airports, federal and state regulatory requirements, established processes, and revised best practices.

Certainly the hope is that these documents will provide us a solid base of guidance for the airport for many years to come, but like any of these documents, they are living breathing documents.

So they can be amended and they can be changed as situations warrant.

Now, as I said, I was aware there was a comment that was submitted to the city council.

It was from an entity Coastal Flight who was interested in establishing establishing a flight school on the airport.

In a nutshell, my understanding is their primary concern was related to the new minimum standards in that they establish minimum size requirements that they deem to be excessive and interpreted to apply to all operators and all facilities, including existing operators and facilities.

So to clarify that, the specific large sizes that are referenced in the minimum standards, for example, half acre, quarter acre sizes, those are specifically related to land where somebody that's already there and is already operating.

Those operations and those facilities are grandfathered in.

Also, we did get like uh like questions similar when we did the public uh comment portion, and so these exact concerns were addressed in the final version uh that are included for approval today.

Basically, what we did is we went back into the minimum standards, we added additional language to just make sure to clarify the requirements and differences between new land development versus existing operators within existing facilities.

And I should note that uh if a new operator comes on the airport and they're using existing facilities, they also aren't expected to meet this the land requirement.

Again, that's a land development uh thing.

So uh in fact, so this uh the the individuals who put or the the entity that put the comment in they had also uh submitted a new proposal on Monday, and based on the info contained within their proposal, um it appears that they would meet the minimum standards under the new minimum standards.

So certainly if those are adopted today, they um they would be able to they should be able to operate on the airport.

Okay, all right.

Uh thank you.

Oh, yeah, public comment.

Yes, go ahead.

Uh Mr.

Vice Chair, we have two speakers for this item.

Uh when I call your name, please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Sean Dillon and Walt Driggers.

Good afternoon, Council members.

My name is Sean Dillon.

I'm a co-owner and I'm the Chief Legal Officer of Coastal Flight Inc., who is a uh small flight school and an aircraft rental uh company based at Albert Witte.

The address for the uh business physically is 540 first street southeast St.

Petersburg.

Um Tuesday evening, yes, I submitted an email to uh the the council's administrative officer raising concerns that uh we had with the current or the draft we thought was current of the minimum standards.

I understand that that email was circulated to the full council, so I thank the administrative officer for doing that.

My comments here today provide a short update, and uh as Mr.

Lesniak mentioned, there are some things that we learned of yesterday and that further developed yesterday that um that affect our our views on it in a positive way.

So I'm here to clarify and address all of all of that.

First, we learned yesterday that after the public comment period, the uh city updated further updated, I should say, the draft minimum standards being considered today.

That was done in March of this year.

We could not find that updated draft online, which is what led to some of the the disconnect here.

We were able to get it yesterday and saw that as the airport manager described, the three public comments that were made by us were in fact addressed in uh in ways that helped significantly reduce our concerns uh about it.

So we thank airport staff, we thank the uh the city council for the responsiveness in the public comment process.

Um, so those changes meaningfully reduce our concerns.

Does it eliminate all of our concerns?

No, but we understand the the practicalities of going forward.

The concerns we have that remain, we do believe, and it's not just for us as a as a hopeful uh flight school, but others on the field have similar concerns about the space requirements for new business.

They're a little too robust for what is is needed for operations in the context of the limited space available, where uh Witted is the smallest airport in the region with an FAA control tower.

Uh so my comments today are not withdrawing those concerns or waiving those concerns, but we believe there's a practical matter to go forward.

Second uh item we learned yesterday uh that our revised application submit on Monday.

Uh city staff believes that our our uh intended premises there at the field would be compliant with the new standards, whereas under the old standards they view it would not be compliant.

We respectfully and strenuously disagree with the interpretation about the old standards, but let's move forward in a practical way.

We recognize that adopting the currently revised proposed standards today is the is the best path for coastal flight to um to be a recognized operator on the airport, which is something we've been seeking for over a year with with applications.

So thank you for your time, attention, and continued leadership.

Thank you.

Walt Driggersburg, Florida, 33701.

And this came to my attention as you would expect with we watch everything that happens at Friends at Albert Woodard Airport.

When this came up in the confusion of how this was working, I reached out to Mr.

Lesniak and find out what was going on there because I trust him immensely when he deals with the FAA and all the paperwork that's come uh that's required for the F DOT and the FAA.

Got the story, and he assured me that uh coastal would be able to have no problem with the recent changes in the um the plan, which feels good.

And then I reached out to the Dillons to make sure they were happy as well, and uh everything's good with that situation.

But what that does is it brings to the my attention and what you would I'd like you to think about as we move forward is the 20-year master plan for the airport is like all other documents is uh Mr.

Lesniak was saying is it's a living-breathing document.

And given that that one uh was started, our 20-year master plan was started in 2019 and delayed because of COVID, and now we're a lot of years from that, would like to have you think about instigating updating the 20-year master plan because now we need um more sustainability, we need a advanced air mobility to be addressed, and there's the sewage treatment plant that can be developed to meet these standards that you're talking about and allow that to move forward.

And as Mr.

Dillon said, Albert Wood, it is the smallest airport in uh with a control tower.

In a lot of places, we need every square inch, and we need to use it thoughtfully and um correctly to keep Albert Wooded uh being uh what it is, and also that St.

Petersburg is a better place because of St.

Albert Woodard Airport.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Councilmember Driscoll.

Thank you.

Um, I'm glad this was pulled.

It is unfortunate that Chair Yanowitz pulled it and isn't here to ask the questions.

Um, but it seems we uh have an opportunity now to um hear from the public on this on this item, and since Rich is in the building, um I'd love to know is this compatible with the work that you and the members of the advanced air mobility task force did, um the recommendations that they made.

I'm I'm hoping that the airport operations and the way they that you are running that asset and the recommendations and what we're learning all the time about AEM are um moving forward in a way that's complimentary.

Sure.

So so I can address it.

In fact, um I was at a symposium over in Daytona Monday and Tuesday uh specifically on advanced air mobility.

Uh Mr.

Motnery, your former colleague was there as well.

And I can tell you the FDOT is uh pushing the gas on this.

They're really trying to get this uh get this moving.

Um, the minimum standards really have to do with specific types of aeronautical services.

Whether those services are provided with a piston aircraft, a jet a jet-powered aircraft, or an electric-powered aircraft, yes, they would apply in services.

For example, one of the most popular uses of advanced air mobility is air taxi type services, so like an air charter, air taxi.

So, yes, that is contemplated.

Furthermore, I'll say that there are there is flexibility that if there are new types of operations that haven't been contemplated, there are ways to amend the document to add new things, or there are ways to accommodate um new type services that maybe weren't in the original in the original document.

Mr.

Driggers had talked about further planning exercises, and that was a recommendation that did come out of the task force.

So right now, to do that next step will require identification of funding.

Right now we do not have funding identified for that, but to do that next planning step, the alts analysis as an alternatives analysis, that's what would be kind of the next step here locally.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

And um my other question is, you know, earlier we had the CEO of Tampa International Airport here.

Um they too are interested in um how they can accommodate advanced air mobility.

Do you know if he has received uh the presentation that was given to us?

I don't know if he was with any of the groups.

I know you guys have been and um former council member Montaneri have been on kind of a tour, you've been on tour with this presentation uh to a lot of organizations, most of whom um are not this far far along and are quite impressed.

So I think is he one of them?

Because I'm really hoping that as we're moving along and finding what our space what this space looks like for us, that it is something that um complements and can work collaboratively with Tampa International Airport.

Yeah, so I so actually um yeah, members from TIA were at the symposium and and uh Mr.

Brett Faye who's their vice president of GA, he's also kind of their point man on the AAM.

He actually spoke, he came and spoke to the task force.

Um I don't know that I can say too much yet, but I can just say that there's definitely been some cross discussions with them about some things, especially under the umbrella of this EIPP federal program, the state of Florida being selected, and now they're gonna activate the Sun Tracks facility in Auburn Dale.

So, you know, it hopefully the stars are lining up, I guess.

And yes, TIA, I can tell you they are very engaged in this.

Yeah.

Well, it's it's exciting that we are in the conversations now.

It means a lot.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Vice Chair.

Move approval.

Second.

All right.

Seeing no uh requests to speak, will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please send to your votes.

Seeing all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tally and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair motion to approve agenda.

F three passes unanimously with Council Member Gabriel and Hannah was being absent.

Thank you.

We're gonna move on to new business now.

Uh item G1.

Councilmember Driscoll.

I know we jumped to it real quick.

While I get it yeah, that's okay.

I know that exact feeling.

Go this far from consent.

Okay, so my new business item is respectfully requesting a referral to the public services and infrastructure committee or other relevant committee for a discussion on one-day permitting for certain small residential projects and three hundred and sixty-five-day annual facility permits for certain routine projects in commercial properties.

This is something that's been implemented in my in the city of Miami, and it seems to be going quite well.

And although I give big kudos to our permitting department for the improvements that have been made so far, um, this is something that I saw and I couldn't look away.

And I thought we at least should um check it out and see if something uh like this can be implemented in St.

Petersburg.

Because even though we've made strides, I'm still getting calls, and um, I would love for us to explore this, and so um if anyone has any questions, I have been doing some research.

If you need to know something right off the bat, but otherwise, we could save it for the committee meeting, and I'll move approval.

Great.

Uh, thank you very much for this new business item.

I very much look forward to the conversation.

Uh seeing no requests for comment, we have a motion and a second.

Will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your vote.

Seeing all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tell and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair, motion to approve a item G one passes unanimously.

The Council Member Gabbard and Hannah was being absent.

Thank you.

And we'll move on to item G two, Councilmember Gurtis.

Thank you, Mr.

Vice Chair, respectfully requesting referral to the youth and family services committee for a presentation from ever forward regarding their youth programming and community impact, and I'd move approval.

All right.

Seeing no requests for comment, will the clerk please open the machine for voting?

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing all present council members have voted, will the clerk please tell and announce the vote?

Mr.

Vice Chair, motion to approve agenda H two G two passes unanimously with Council Member Gabbard and Hannah.

Thank you.

We are going to take a fifteen minute recess before we start the next portion of our meeting.

Uh so uh I will say City Council's in recess.

Is Shay 4?

It is the quasi judicial and appeal of the development review commission approval of a site plan to construct a phase six hundred and nineteen unit multifamily development located at thirty three thirty-two hundred thirty-fourth street south.

Anyone wishing to speak on this item must fill out a yellow card and provide it to the city clerk, and all speakers must be sworn in before presenting testimony.

The procedures for quasi-judicial proceedings can be found on the yellow card sheet attached to the printed agendas, or if viewing digitally, pages 14 and 15 of the council agenda.

Clerk, at this time, please swear in all parties and speakers, including city staff.

Do you swear our park again?

We will now move on to presentations.

Each party will have 10 minutes for their presentation, and we will begin with the city staff presentation.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Cory Meliska with the City of St.

Petersburg Zoning Division.

The property before you today is located at 34th Street South and 32nd Avenue South in the Skyway Marina District.

1988, the subject property was gifted to St.

Petersburg Junior College Board of Trustees.

There is a large paved uh driving area located along the southern portion of the property.

The college utilizes this property and the property to the east of 32nd Street South for public safety training programs.

Subject property will be sold to the applicant, and the property to the east will continue to be owned by the college.

The applicant proposes demolishing all improvements on the subject property.

These are the existing conditions of the property.

So the top photo is taken from 34th Street South, looking to the north, as well as you have the existing parking lot of the office building in the second photo, and you can also tell where the pictures are taken from the key that is located in the right lower hand corner.

And then you have another picture of the parking lot.

Multiple pedestrian connections are proposed to the public sidewalks to the abudding right-of-way.

Interior sidewalks are also proposed that will connect all buildings on site.

This is when the image elevations of building A.

As described by the applicant's architect, the proposed buildings are of a contemporary design that borrows from the surrounding built environment.

The design includes articulated roof lines with varied gables, shed roofs, and emphasized corner elements to break down the mass and provide visual interest.

The facades have varied depths, balcony projections of arithmetic scale fenestration to further minimize the building mass and create a more human scale.

Elevation of building B.

C.

D.

E.

And this is the bus buildings.

The development review commission heard the case at its March 4th, 22026 hearing.

After hearing testimony from staff, the agent, and the registered opponent, and one member of the public that DRC did make a motion.

The motion was to approve the site plan by a vote of five to one.

An appeal was filed in a timely manner by the appellant today, Frank Guerrera of Atlas Cardinal, Skytown LLC.

The site plan submitted by the applicant together with the supporting materials.

Do not meet the applicable criteria as the appellant argues of the Skyway Marina District.

The activity center for the Skyway Marina District or the RC1 zoning district regulations.

The site plan submitted and project thereon is not consistent with other market rate apartment projects approved by the DRC in the district.

Procedures for an appeal pursuance to city code chapter 16 section 16.70.010.6.

Appeals require a supermajority vote of city council.

The city council can hear new testimony and evidence, and the process is de novo.

Staff's response to the appeal before you today includes on May 15, 2014, City Council did approve the Skyway Marina District Plan.

Skyway Marina District was uh established in October 2013 when the area was named.

The district is located along 34th Street South between 30th and 54th Avenue South.

One of the Skyway Marina District plan's recommendation is to create a mixed use district, and a vision of creating a mixed use vertical development within ground floor retail integrated parking is encouraged.

An important objective of the plan is to increase market rate housing.

The Skyway Marine District encompasses 227 acres.

The district plan notes that the existing land development regulations allow intense mixed use.

However, an activity center designation would enable an increase in density and intensity.

The city initiated improved changes to the comprehensive plan, establishing an activity center for the district.

The plan did not recommend making changes to the existing zoning district regulations that are within the Skyway Marine District.

There's two zoning districts now, the RC1 and the CCS2.

Components of the Skyway Marine District plan do include first one improve the retail experience.

Plan objectives also increase employment, increase the population and buying power by constructing market rate housing.

Economic development.

Additional retail restaurants and office are desired in the district.

Land use and site design vision element, mixed use vertical development with ground floor retail and integrated parking should be encouraged.

Recommendations for the land use in the site design within the plan.

Promoted a mixed use district with quality design.

Construction and site design.

Goal one construction of high quality new development.

Create an activity center destination for 34th Street corridor that will increase density and intensity.

Encourage new development to sustainable building techniques.

Encourage the private sector to use art in public areas.

Explore providing a public drainage system for the district.

Goal two, enhancement of existing development.

Encourage restaurants to have outdoor dining areas.

Promote crime prevention, create a district team to meet regularly.

Implementation of the Skyway Marina District plan on August 6, 2015, City Council did approve ordinance 712-L amending the future land use to activity center and approved on ordinance 174-H, creating a new map.

The Skyway Marina District Activity Center.

Amending map 20 of the future major streets in the comprehensive plan.

Further requirements related to the neighborhood plans contained in the city's comprehensive plan, such as land use element 12.5, states the city shall consider the neighborhood plans accepted by the city council and the recommendations came contained therein as guidelines to maintain and enhance vitality of the neighborhoods.

Neighborhood plans cannot be binding upon the city because they are accepted by resolution and not ordinance.

An activity center overlay.

The activity center overlay is a future land use designation, does not regulate the mixture of uses for a single property or development project.

These are the approved projects throughout the district.

You probably have this on your your desk in front of you that you can see it a little better.

But for the approved plans, since the inception of the Skyway Marina District, 15 projects, including the subject property have submitted plans for redevelopment to the city.

Of the 15 projects, 13 have been built, excluding the subject property and the property at 440134 Street South.

This one has been approved by the DRC and plans have been submitted in for permitting.

Other 15 projects, only five are mixed use, and that includes mixed use per site, mixed use vertical development.

The subject property is zone retail center one.

Multifamilies permitted use in the district.

RC one district does not require a minimum or maximum percentage of non-residential or residential uses on a property.

The RC one zoning district permits a residential density within an activity center of 45 units per acre and a non-residential intensity within the activity center FAR, excuse me, of 1.12.

The maximum building height is seventy-two feet.

Maximum impervious surface is 75%.

The applicant's property is 16.25 acres in size.

They're proposing 619 dwelling units or 38 dwelling units per acre.

They're proposing a 72-foot building height and a max impervious surface of 70 percent.

Project does comply with all the district regulations.

Again, to the comprehensive plan.

There are multiple objectives and policies that demonstrate that the proposed multifamily use is consistent with the complan.

The subject properties located within the Skyway Marina District Activity Center.

The activity center was established by the city to encourage urban development with significantly higher intensities and densities in other parts of the city.

Redevelopment of existing properties to higher intensities and densities is an exception and goal of the comprehensive plan.

Prior to the DRC meeting, staff did receive six correspondence opposing the development, and we did have one register opponent form who is the appellant today.

Between now and uh from this middle of the appeal to today, staff did receive a letter from the Skyway Marina District uh with objecting to the proposal, and that was provided to council members.

Uh staff does recommend that city council deny the appeal, thereby upholding the DRC's decision to approve the site plan subject to the conditions in the staff report.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next we will have the appellants presentation.

Good afternoon, sir.

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the time.

Uh prior to beginning, I wanted to submit for the record um all of the items that we want put into the record for this hearing.

In a thumb drive.

Were those submitted ahead of time?

Oh, could I do that?

Were those previously submitted to staff?

The presentation was submitted to staff, but I can all documents to be considered and the quasi judicial materials are required to be submitted 24 hours in advance of the hearing to the clerk's office to be considered by city council for the record.

My understanding was that only the presentation that we were going to, and I confirmed this in writing actually with Corey, if you could clarify, that there were items that I could submit into the record the day of the hearing.

I did respond later saying that all items would have to be given to us 24 hours.

I did set subsequent email.

Well, that's unfortunate because we only submitted the uh PowerPoint and not the rest of the supporting materials that are supposed to be part of the record.

That's interesting.

And um, then by reference, I will submit into the record the transcript of the DRC hearing that took place to approve the Skyway, the Skytown project on October 4th, 2023, and the transcript of the DRC hearing approving the applicants project today.

I believe those are public records that are in the possession of the city anyway.

Uh and you all have my PowerPoint presentation that I'm going to be going through today.

Is that something that you all will be pulling up, or do I need to give you the thumb drive to be able to pull to reference that in today's hearing?

They have it up.

I believe that's it.

Okay.

Well, my name is Frank Guerra.

I have been sworn.

I represent Altus Cardinal Sky Town project across the street from the applicant at 3201 34th Street South.

We are appealing to the DRC for two principal reasons.

I want to remind this body that this is a de novo review, and you are not bound by the findings of the DRC that has moved this project along.

We're opposing it for two reasons.

One, it violates the requirements of the RC1 zoning code, in particular respect with respect to the impervious service impervious surface ratio requirement.

The if you can go to my presentation toward the end, and if you want, I can put it.

But how do I?

Okay.

So this is the requirement of RC one.

You'll notice that it's a 75% maximum impervious ratio.

This is the table submitted by the applicant.

You'll notice that in the middle in the red rectangle, there's a storm water surface area that's designated as 11% of the site that's being counted as pervious area.

We established in testimony at the DRC that this is not a surface area on the site that allows water to infiltrate into the earth, which is the definition for in the city code for impervious surface.

It specifically says that it's a surface that has been compacted with or covered with a layer of material so that is resistant to or prevents infiltration by stormwater.

We've established in the DRC hearing that the body of water in question does not allow infiltration of water into the earth.

So I do not see the authority on which the 11%, which comprises the stormwater pond, can be counted as pervious.

If that is the case, then the 11% that is impervious would have to be impervious, making the ratio submitted by the applicant 81%, which would exceed the required 75% by 6%.

It is by definition a retention pond.

It's been called three things.

It's been called a retention pond, a detention pond, uh, and a wet pond.

In all cases, it is designed to hold water and not allow water to infiltrate into the earth, which is the exact definition in the code of what constitutes an impervious surface.

There's a second definition of impervious surface in the code under the utilities section, which echoes the exact same thing.

Prevents or severely restricts infiltration of stormwater into the earth.

So on that basis alone, it would not meet the criteria set forth in the RC1 zoning code.

The applicant project would exceed it by 6% and therefore not meet that requirement.

Regarding the second basis on which we're um appealing is that the applicant's project provides only market rate apart apartments and no retail.

They the applicant claims that the Skyward Marina plan does not apply, and that it is merely a guideline or a vision plan, and that since it was adopted by this body, the city council in 2015, as a plan that it was not adopted as an ordinance and resolution instead that it cannot be imposed upon uh an applicant, any applicant, but I submit to you that there have been five market rate projects that have become before this project, only five market rate multifamily projects, and all five comply with the skyward marina plan in that they provide retail, and this is a table indicating.

Obviously, the first one is the applicant, which is not providing any retail at all.

All five others that are market rate apartments submit, I'm sorry, uh complied with the Skyrim Arena plan and did provide for retail.

The projects that were named as not being mixed use in the prior presentation, um, which I believe is on this slide.

You'll notice the ones that have a zero on the fourth column.

Um those are distinguishable.

Uh, three of them are skyway Lofts, which those are the ones in yellow.

That was an affordable project, and it did not meet the threshold to even go before the DRC, so it was never even considered under the same criteria.

And the fourth project at the bottom, second from the bottom is convivial.

That is an assisted living project, which also falls into a different category is not distinguished, is distinguishable from this one.

The Skyward Marina plan was specifically created to promote the development of mixed-use projects along 34th Street so that there was interaction with the community, specifically with an emphasis on retail.

You'll notice that the six criteria which are laid out in the staff report in both the applicant's staff report for DRC and in the Skytown staff report for DRC lists the six criteria that are most critical to the Skyward Marina plan.

And five out of six relate directly to retail.

So the fact that it is in the staff report is not consistent with the fact that it is inapplicable and cannot be applied to projects that come before the DRC or this body.

It does not stand to reason that the standard was imposed upon and followed by five other projects, every single market rate project that has come before either the DRC or the City Council after the city council adopted the Skyward Renault plan, has actually complied with it with no exception.

Every single one has retail fronting 34th Street.

This project would be the only one that does not comply.

If this was an episode of Sesame Street, it would be an example of which one of these things doesn't belong.

It is a clear outlier.

How does this how is this imposed?

This is actually language from uh the hearing in which the Skytown project was approved before the DRC.

You'll notice that the language stresses retail and it stresses it to the point that it says that even with the retail that we did apply for, that it wasn't enough, and that it quote unquote falls short of the intended goal of both the Skyway Marina plan and even shorter of the RC zoning, which R the R and RC zoning stands for retail.

This would be an RC1 project.

The applicant is falling under the RC1 zoning code, just like SkyTown, and it is providing no retail.

And what ended up happening as a result of the hearing that we had is that three conditions of approval were imposed on the Skytown project, all of which relate to retail.

Number one is that it should be designed to incorporate components of the Skyward Marina District guidelines, design guidelines.

Now, this is an interesting one because it exists in all six conditions of approval for all market rate projects that we're talking about.

The five that did provide retail and the applicant project also has a condition approval meeting the design guidelines of the Skyward Marina district.

I failed to see how it could be a voluntary or opt-in a framework when it is literally the first item in the conditions of approval that is on the applicant's site plan approval from the DRC.

More importantly, the second and third one, numbered four and twenty-six respectively, from the conditions of approval for Skytown, they relate directly to requirements of retail that were imposed on Skytown.

And what's important here is that you'll notice it says minimum of 59,320 square feet of interior commercial shell prior to being able to get site A or Site C, both of which are multifamily off the ground.

This means we cannot get a building permit unless we provide retail space.

That is a requirement.

That is not a voluntary element.

In the last one, that one came up during the discussion, and it was as a result of the language that I highlighted before, where an additional 8,000 square feet, 4,000 each inch and two buildings, was imposed on the project as a retail requirement.

This was imposed as a condition of going to a vote where we could get approved, and this happened in the middle of the back and forth in a four and a half hour hearing where it was clearly not voluntary, it was required.

So the framework set forth by the Skyway Marina plan has been followed by five projects, it has been imposed on several projects.

Most recently, uh the Skytown project, which happens to be ours.

And just by way of visual representation, just want to run you through the district.

This is the Marina Club project with its significant retail along 34th Street, Circ Club with retail that was part of its site plan approval.

Although it's vacant and continuing to be marketed, it is provided for and it is required to be delivered along 34th Street, and that is the property immediately next to the subject property of the applicant.

It is the same zoning uh designation RC1.

This is Marina Walk, also with the retail along 34th Street.

This is the Addison, also with retail along 34th Street.

And you will notice if you look at a picture because the picture is worth a thousand words.

This is the RC one that applies to both SPCON and SurClub.

And if you notice, look at the picture down, and we have from the south, and we have from the north.

You'll see that every single property complies with retail along 34th Street.

This property is being treated differently, and it's not allowed.

Next, we will have the applicant's presentation.

Thank you.

Do I just do it right here?

Or I always forget where to point.

That's a center.

Okay.

You just do the arrows.

Yep, got it.

Just to make sure.

Okay.

Good afternoon.

Elise Batsell with Stearns Weaver Miller for the record.

The first couple of slides I'm going to go through very quickly because Corey covered those.

They're just highlights of generally where the property is located, the number of units, etc.

Um, just to give you a little bit of flavor for this project.

This project is the redevelopment of a vacant institutional campus into a thriving multifamily development, offering a much needed diverse housing option.

The project is thoughtfully designed to meet or exceed all of your land development regulations and to comply with the comprehensive plan.

If you notice along the top of the screen, the 34th Street Corridor and building along the street were specifically redesigned a number of times to prioritize activation, walkability, and streetscape.

Culture carved out the most invisible visible corner as a one-acre parcel for future commercial redevelopment.

This slide simply talks about the integration of uses, pedestrian connected connectivity, and automotive and pedestrian safety.

In your record is our expert planner report.

She found that it was consistent with a comprehensive plan, meets the city's land development regulations and compatible with the surrounding built environment.

Similarly, the next four slides show that your staff, your professional staff, as well as our professional staff found that each and every one of the 16 criteria that are before you today for consideration were met by this project.

The project has no variances, no waivers, and no special exceptions.

All competent substantial evidence in your record supports you upholding the DRC approval.

So this appeal was filed by Altice Cardinal, a direct competitor across the street, and I I think that the appellant might disagree with me, but let's call it what it is.

This is really just a competitor trying to slow down the units that might be built across the street, period.

Coulter site is completely different than Skytown.

The site is sandwiched between a six-lane arterial highway to the west, I-275 to the east.

The only neighbors are multifamily to the north, a police academy, and a vacant ALF to the site to the south.

Skytown is right in the middle, as you can see, of tons of neighborhoods, and there were hundreds of people that came out against Skytown.

This is nothing like the Skytown project, and it's only a quarter of the size.

Let's talk a little bit about his appeal.

The appeal references generally the Sky Town District Plan, the entire RC1 code that we don't comply with, and the activity center overlay with zero specificity.

Your code actually requires that there's specificity when you file the appeal.

It requires that we know which provisions were not consistent with.

And I think that the reason nothing was filed is because there are no specific land development regulations or comp plan provisions that we do not meet with the site plan.

I know that you all already know this, but it just bears repeating.

It is well established that in a quasi-judicial setting like this, the local governments are limited to the land development code criteria.

That includes your comprehensive plan and your land development regulations.

Your city attorney at DRC recognized this.

She specifically said your decisions should be based on the code, and your code is paramount.

Let's go with the Skyway Marina District Plan.

The Skyway Marina District Plan is not regulatory.

It was adopted, but it was never codified or never implemented.

Like the BRT study that you're doing now, there's an opportunity to take those regulations and codify them in your land development regulations so that they can be regulatory.

That hasn't been the case, so that can't yet be the basis for your decision today.

However, even though the Skyway Marina District Plan is not regulatory, we took great aims to comply with that plan.

Specifically, there are three goals that were omitted by the appellant.

It's to increase the population and buying power in the district, construct additional market rate residential units, and target significantly underutilized parcels for redevelopment.

That is exactly what this proposal does.

And the district is just that it is a large district, a mixed-use district that is intended to permit a mixture of uses across the entire district.

That's why you have goals and objectives that talk about retail and you have goals and objectives that talk about residential.

It's not a mandate that every single project have mixed-use elements.

With respect to the activity center, Corey already covered this, but it this is simply an overlay that expressly permits additional entitlements.

If you fall within that overlay, you have the appropriate zoning, you get the extra density.

And finally, your staff acknowledge that the activity center overlay does not regulate the mixture of uses for a single property or a single development.

Again, it's a district wide.

Quickly, I just want to talk about RC1.

We meet each and every RC1 standard, use, density, and hensity, type, height, and yes, ISR.

Our professionals are engineers are here, they can walk you through exact the exact calculations if you would like, but there is no question your staff found that we meet that requirement, and our professional engineers also found that.

Even though Frank says otherwise, there is no mixed use requirement in RC1.

Here's what's important, though.

There is a mixed-use requirement in RC3.

So, specifically, when you pick and say RC3 requires mixed-use development, and you say RC1 doesn't, the implication is silent that there is no mixed requirement.

Your staff agrees with this.

Our professional planners agree.

Competent substantial evidence, all of the competent substantial evidence that is in the record, including what you've heard from Mr.

Greer, Mr.

Grera today, points to the fact that the RC1 district standards are met clearly, each and every one.

And I want to go back a little bit to all of these other projects because I think this is probably the one of the more important things that we're going to talk about.

This project isn't like any other project, right?

We already talked about the fact of its physical geographical location and the constraint between the highway and the six-lane divided highway.

But this project intentionally expands housing.

It intentionally tries to provide a different type of multifamily product.

All of these podium wrap projects that you know about that uh Frank talked about, they all have significantly higher rents.

Um he went through each of them to show you, but this was a very thoughtful and does deliberate design in order to create a different kind of housing in the district.

Coulter didn't ignore the district's vision.

The district needs more residents, they need more buying power, and they need housing options at different rental levels.

This project broadens that housing offering and creates more demand for the commercial uses that are within the district.

In the multifamily world, surface parking like we have means you can offer 300 to 500 less rent per month.

That's significant and that's substantial.

It's a different product with a broader housing choice.

Now, despite what Mr.

Grera said in 2018, the Addison was approved as a single use multifamily development within the district.

It wasn't till later that they went out and they added retail.

We have our future commercial parcel.

Similarly, the Addison added the commercial out parcel to create mixed use at a later date.

Corey's already spoken about the number of projects that are mixed use.

Only five of the 15 that have come since the Skyway Marina District plan are mixed use.

So just talking a little bit about the appeal, the scope of appeal that's before you is do we comply with a comprehensive plan?

Do we comply with the land development regulations that are before you, including the 16 criteria that we briefly went through?

Other previous projects that have been approved, Mr.

Grera's project where there were hundreds of neighbors, and whatever he had to do to get that approved, that isn't before you today.

That plan isn't before you today, only the plan that we have submitted, the culture plan, we respectfully request that you deny this appeal and affirm the DRC.

This is a multifamily project that is permitted by right in the RC1 district.

No variances, waivers, or special exceptions have been asked for.

We have demonstrated compliance with all of the criteria, and all of the competent substantial evidence that you've heard and that is in your voluminous record.

Thank you.

We'll now take public comment.

Yes, madam chair.

I have four cards.

When I call your name, please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or across the street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

The first two speakers are Aliyah Shrimer and Jasmine Dominguez.

Good afternoon, Council Aaliyah Shermer at 2132 Lakewood Club Drive South, St.

Petersburg, Florida, 33712.

I want to speak today to you, Council members, as to why you should uphold this approval and deny the appeal.

I just recently finished my second year of law school at Stetson.

And as a Tampa native, born and raised here, I know intimately and have firsthand experience with the troubles and difficulties that come with finding housing in the area.

My friends and I have joked that finding adequate housing, good housing, is sometimes more difficult than our law school courses.

Stetson has limited off-campus housing and apartment opportunities, which forces students to look to the surrounding areas for places to live.

And when we look in the surrounding area across St.

Pete's, we can't seem to find available adequate housing without months of searching and lowering our expectations greatly.

Stetson students, but more importantly, the community at large needs more housing options that will serve the students and the full range of our community.

Before redevelopment on 34th Street began, the only option seemed to be minuscule apartments that may have been a good price, but were run down, falling apart, had countless issues, and some were just unsafe to live in.

The other option on the other end of the spectrum was to fish out five, six thousand dollars a month for a luxury high-rise apartment in downtown St.

Pete.

Neither of those are great options for our community.

Our community is lacking a third option, the middle ground between both ends of the spectrum.

This project and the revitalization of 34th Street as a whole provides the solution.

Stetson students are being drawn down to 34th as the apartment buildings go up due to its close proximity to both campus and downtown, along with having the stores we need located nearby, and generally lower rental rates.

And it's not just Stetson students.

Eckerd and USF students also now have additional options of housing at a more affordable and attainable rate.

Our community needs additional housing options, and this project accomplishes just that.

With that, I urge you, Council members, to uphold the approval and this of this project and deny the appeal.

Thank you for your time.

Good afternoon, Council.

My name is Jasmine Dominguez, and I reside at 6415 23rd Street South.

Now, my intention is not to be overly repetitive on the points that were already brought forward, but I am also a Stetson Law student going into my third year.

And first, I would like to speak on my experience trying to find housing as a student.

I'm a first-generation student, and I work as well as takeout loans on top of scholarship to be able to live here in St.

Pete.

My first year when looking for housing, I was forced to look for small micro-studio apartments and ended up in a place that was 150 square feet with mold and an in-unit um air conditioning unit that would leak into the walls.

Afterwards, I have been looking since for suitable rent that is within driving distance.

I have peers and classmates that commute upwards of 45 minutes to school and know that there are similar situations for those attending USF St.

Pete as well as Eckert.

Now I'm a current resident of the area in which this project is going to be built, and I know that there is no better use for this land.

This would create economic growth that's exactly in line with what is going on in this area.

And although this area is generally more affordable, the current housing projects are expensive and priced at a premium.

The ones that are more affordable are outdated and have a number of issues, including the one where I reside currently.

So the diversity of housing is exactly what this area needs, and is in line with what the area is intending to have.

So, because of this need for housing diversity, diversity on the lower half of 34th Street, this approval should be allowed and this appeal should be denied.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Thank you.

Come before you as a product of South St.

Pete.

Born and raised, um, grew up in St.

Pete.

South St.

Pete, lived there currently, uh, created my law firm there and invest in my future there.

But I'm not coming before you today to speak about my personal beliefs about this project.

Uh, as a president of the district, I have to speak on behalf of our constituents.

And overwhelmingly, I don't believe that there has been any type of public support for this.

Uh we have pushed Coulter to before went to the DRC to have a public hearing multiple times.

They just chose not to not to do that.

And our position, and I want to be clear about this: we're not opposing uh or resisting growth or redevelopment.

The Scottish Marine District has been consistent about supporting smart growth and res uh responsible investment into the corridor.

The discussion today shouldn't just be about semantics or technicalities, it should be about what's best for the residents and long term future of Skyrim Marina District, but more importantly, South St.

Pete.

Um, you know, this proposal, it's not the type of growth that our community and the city has envisioned when the Skyrim Marine District plan was adopted.

In fact, up until the DRC meeting, I didn't know that the Skyrim Marina plan was a bad word that we couldn't be saying that.

Um, that's my whole position with the being in the present of the district is to make sure that developments that come in adhere to those things that were adopted by this council.

Um, you know, the adopted envisioned plan, it's a vibrant activity center, right?

Retail emphasis, RC RC1, retail.

It's a walkable mixed use development with meaningful commercial activation and pedestrian oriented design.

Uh instead, what's being proposed is overwhelmingly residential with commercial components being deferred for a future phase without any type of binding commitments or enforceable timelines.

Without the enforceable commitment, we're gonna end up with the exact same thing that we have right now in front of Circle of Apartments, disconnected, vacant, barren land.

Um, and once a project's built, guess what?

City has lost its leverage to go ahead and ensure any type of meaningful mixed use activation even occurs.

And what remains, it's a precedent, a bad precedent.

A precedent that tells future developers that they can satisfy technical requirements while disregarding the broader vision and intent of an adopted district plan.

That's a dangerous precedent, not only for the Skyrim Marine District, but also for every other thoughtful plan to redevelopment district in our city.

And this is an anti-development.

It's about honoring the framework of the city and all those who put all their blood, sweat, and tears and equity into it.

Um it's just being ignored.

So South St.

Pete divorce uh uh deserves development that honors the adopted vision for this district and creates lasting community value, not projects that prioritize short-term profits.

Thank you.

Hi, Council.

My name is Lauren Hubbard.

I'm the current interim executive director for the Skyway Marina District.

Uh, my home address is 1110 3rd Street South.

Uh I'm here before you as a mother as a community advocate.

Um, we're not anti-development.

In fact, we very much appreciate the development and growth in the area.

We are pro-community.

As somebody who's grown up here and lived in over 46 residences being raised by a single parent, myself, I know what identity or the lack of can do to the young.

And so I'm here on behalf of our future leaders that don't have a voice in this fight just yet.

We love the idea of having more housing in our district.

What we also want is to integrate art, community, retail, opportunities to create identity in our district.

You know, being a part of this ecosystem, that means that we get to thrive off of our uh our our businesses and the retail spaces that come that give us opportunities to go outside of our doors, play in green spaces, not retention ponds, go for a walks around to the nearest studio or restaurant or support a local designer that is right near our home because it's right there and accessible in ways that we usually don't have access to on the south side.

So this is bigger than just being a beacon or a representative of more development.

What this is is it's a statement to our future leaders.

SPC is a symbol of education of youth of the future.

And so if we replace it, let's do it meaningfully and intentionally, while we bring in retail space and bring in community opportunities for others to integrate into the community that they're able to afford to live in.

And so we want to do this in partnership and ask you to join us by considering what we're in front of you asking, which is not a lot, just opportunity to expand, because we only get one shot to do this, and we want to do it right and with your support.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Uh, final two speakers are David Dickey and Ron Weisser.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

My name is Ron Weiser, Phillips Development Realty, 142 West Plast Street, Tampa, 336 33606.

We are the developer and owner of the Sur Club project that is a mixed-use project immediately to the north of the St.

Pete College site.

We're also the developer and owner of the retail project, which is directly across the street, which is the Woody's Wash Shack in the parking lot of uh Walmart.

We are very, very familiar with the Coulter Corporation.

They have an outstanding reputation.

They've developed a number of projects in this area, all of which we perceive, and I believe everybody that's familiar with them perceives are quality projects.

They have a name and reputation for integrity and doing what they say they're gonna do.

They have been very active with us to explain to us what they plan to do.

They are our most immediate neighbors, so we are keenly interested in it.

We were the earliest developer of the Skyway Mariner District almost 10 years ago when we first saw an opportunity.

We worked very closely with the city.

All of the things that are in the Skyway Marina District regulations now were part of what our dialogue was uh city was: how do we improve the Skyway Marina District?

How do we make it somewhere special?

There was a need for uh residential housing.

We fulfilled that need with our SurClub project.

We also built self-storage, and we do have a retail area uh on the highway.

Up to date, the self-storage has been highly successful.

The SERCLU has been highly successful.

We've been unable to attack retail, but we do perceive we will have retail as there's more and more re uh more and more residential properties uh added.

So we have looked carefully at their plan.

We would recommend that it uh be approved.

Uh we are very familiar with the rules and regulations uh and uh we think uh it's going to be a nice addition to that area, and so our suggestion is you approve it as applied for.

Thank you.

Go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon, council members.

Uh, my name is David Dickey.

Uh I reside at 1591 Pennell's Bay Way, St.

Petersburg, Florida.

And I'm not an attorney, I've just came here because I follow a lot of interesting things.

Um, I'm just here today in support of the project, and uh I regularly receive the St.

Pete Rising emails, and I've found it fascinating.

I'm a 20-year resident here and a proud uh husband of a fourth generation Floridian, and we now have fifth generation Floridians that we raise here in this community.

So I think the the 34th Street corridor has evolved in a lot of meaningful ways, and I and I think it's great because I'm traversing that all the time.

I'm traversing I 75 all the time because our kids go to school in different places.

Uh when I heard that the project was being um appealed, I honestly didn't fully understand it, and I know there's a lot of technical components that go into um approving things, and it sounds like there were many hours by uh council and staff and uh the planning commission.

So um I just understand the project that would be adding um market rate, but lower rent.

I guess I'm in line with the gals that go to Stetson.

And as a dad who's gonna ultimately have kids in college, they'll probably locally stay here.

And I would like to have them live in a place like uh the Coulter product so they don't have to live in my house.

And that's not only a joke, but it's it's sincere, so they can get out on their own.

We probably can't send them to four-year schools away for the whole four years.

So I just want to again voice my support for this meaningful housing development project, and and I thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

Now we'll move into cross-examination.

Each party will have five minutes for cross-examination.

Staff.

Would you like to cross-examine?

Staff waves.

Would the appellant like to cross-examine?

Indeed.

If we pull up our um presentation again, please, before we begin.

I guess my first questions are for the engineer that council offered as available to explain the formula related to the ISR calculation.

I don't think I've begun my you're you're starting, so yes.

Well, okay.

So he's right there.

All right.

I'd like to know how you calculated the pond, which is a retention pond designed to accumulate water and not allow it to infiltrate into the earth as pervious.

Sure.

Uh Don Dodge with Kimley Horn, uh 200 Central Lab.

Uh professional engineer.

Um so the calculations uh for the ISR were done um in accordance with the city code.

The city code uh specifies um what we include in those calculations.

The question as far as um pervious and impervious, the stormwater pond as shown is actually part of the stormwater system.

The purpose of it is to collect and infiltrate into the ground and allow the surface uh the groundwater to penetrate as well.

If it is designed to infiltrate, how does it stay wet?

It is by definition a retention pond which retains water.

That is the groundwater, so it allows the groundwater to come to come in and out, but it doesn't go anywhere if it stays wet.

It is so the testimony at the DRC given by Mr.

Scott, which was the engineer at the time, said that it was quote designed to accumulate water in a second part of the discussion at the DRC, it said it is being designed to retain water, like any wet pond that is designed, it will retain water, quote unquote.

This the permanent pool, which is the water below the water table, is used for treatment.

So I don't see how the water is infiltrating into the earth and the pond would stay wet.

On what authority in the code do you see any place where it treats a pond like a grass that allows water to infiltrate into the earth?

The purpose of the impervious surface ratio is not necessarily the terminology that you're you're requesting.

The the city code, what they're asking for with the ISR is specified in the code, which includes building pavement, um, and um building pavement, uh, but hard surfaces.

The stormwater system is not included in that.

If it was a lined pond or a pool, then that would be a different case.

But this is for the stormwater.

So is a pool of water that is designed to accumulate water as it falls more like a pool or more like grass?

It it's a stormwater system as part of stormwater system.

Right, that's not an answer.

And if you look at the uh definition, there is no provision made for stormwater system being accepted from the definition of impervious surface, and you'll never notice that the impervious ratio says the same thing.

And in the stormwater section, since you referenced that of the city code, it actually refers to the exact same thing, says infiltration of stormwater into the earth.

If it's prevented or severely restricted, it counts as impervious.

So I don't see how it could be counted in the pervious column for purposes of an impervious surface ratio calculation.

Um a stormwater pond is just digging a hole in the earth and is not restricting, we're not compacting, we're not lining it, we're not restricting any flow.

So, what keeps it wet and from going away into the earth?

The groundwater.

So by definition, by definition, it's not impervious.

Okay, moving on.

Um the applicant has admitted that they're not meeting the sky marina plan.

That renders, so they're saying that the adoption by the city council by of the sky remained plan is completely ineffective.

Is that correct?

I know that's not a question.

Whoever the applicant wants to put it, excuse me.

Whoever wants to be hold on.

You're sitting in the audience, you're not part of this.

Who stop the time?

Hold on.

This is not for anyone in the audience to be commenting, okay?

You put back five seconds on the clock.

Ask your question and let us know who you're asking because you have the engineer up there.

Whoever the applicant would like to put forth to answer the question as to the effect of the Skyway Marina plan after being adopted by the city council.

Okay.

Does that have someone that can answer that?

Well, the Skyway Marina District plan, and this is all in your record, and your staff can confirm this, was adopted as a visionary plan.

It was not implemented or codified into your land development regulations or your comprehensive plan.

Therefore, it is just that.

It's a visionary plan.

Your staff in their staff report actually told you various objectives of the Skyway Marina District plan that our site plan satisfies.

So Corey looked at it, we looked at it.

We certainly didn't say.

Thank you.

Your five minutes are up.

I think you still have you still have closing.

Would the applicant like to cross-examine?

I have a couple of questions for Corey, please.

Corey, the uh appellant seemed to indicate that there were other projects similarly situated where the city imposed requirements on them.

Is it true that multifamily residential development as a standalone use is expressly permitted within the RC one zoning district?

That is correct.

And are there any current requirements, any minimum amounts of non residential or mixed use development required with within the RC one for these multifamily residential projects for a single project?

There is not Corey.

Once we go to the next phase and we start permitting, and the engineering plans are submitted into the record, will the city engineer look at all of the engineering plans, including the stormwater ponds, and to determine if the impervious surface ratio is met.

Will the plans have to be revised to make sure that that is met prior to moving forward?

It will have to, correct?

Corey, you stated one thing in your site plan that I wanted to ask you about a little bit more.

You said that the Skyway Marina District plan in 2013 didn't recommend any changes to the zoning that designations that existed at the time.

That's correct.

Thank you.

And only one uh question for the appellant, please.

Yes, ma'am.

Frank, thank you.

Just with regards to your questions about ISR, only question is are you a civil engineer have any engineering background?

No, but I can read a code.

Thank you.

Now we move on to closing arguments or rebuttal.

Each party will have five minutes to provide a closing argument.

For rebuttal.

Staff.

Any closing?

I guess I have some clarification that I just wanted to go through.

Some clarification statements as part of my closing.

Um, can I have my PowerPoint, please?

Um, so I just want to go through some of the uh discussions about what has been approved in the district or not.

So number 14 on the map is the ALF ILF, which has not been um constructed yet, is located north of Marina Walk, behind the McDonald's there on 34th Street.

Uh ALF ILF is considered residential.

This project was approved through by a variance.

Public notice was sent out to everyone within the district, including the Skyway Marina District, and no one appealed it to uh DRC.

So that's 100%.

Marina Walk, Marina Walk actually did not require approval.

They were under the threshold, they were under 250,000 square feet when they came in.

They were only proposing residential.

Um their plans for permitting showed where the Starbucks is now as a future development.

We didn't know what that was.

It could have been residential, it could have been commercial.

It turned out to be commercial.

Um we also have uh different projects.

The the three Skyway Loft projects that you see, the affordable housing projects that were built in the district.

All of those did require variances, and public notice was sent out for all those, including to the district.

No one objected.

Uh Addison, Addison was again.

We already heard that from the applicant.

They are originally approved with no commercial at all.

They later bought the building to the south, which was the State Farm Insurance Building, and prior to that was a bank.

They demoed it, they came in for a site plan mod to add self-storage because self-storage is only limited as an accessory use in the district, so that's why they needed additional land to do that.

Uh and the where the Chipotle is that was not part of this development.

So again, that was 100% residential.

Um so that's just a clarification on the approval of those projects.

Thank you.

Does the applicant have any closing argument or rebuttal?

It's yes, first, it's the I'm sorry, it's the applicant.

You actually oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said I thought you said appellate.

I thought you said appellate.

So you have y'all have the last word, so it's the applicant and then the appellate.

The decision before you today relates to the culture site plan, whether it satisfies all of the requirements of the land development regulations and the comp plan.

Culture played by all the rules.

They met with staff in 2024 to understand all of the regulations that govern this particular project.

They specifically designed the project to meet all of the RC1 standards, the 16 criteria set forth in your land development regulations and the activity center framework set forth in your comprehensive plan and the land development regulations.

These regulations are the rule book that the city gave to the developer, and they said this is what you need to do to get site plan approval for this project.

But Culture didn't stop with the rules.

Culture went beyond that.

Even though the Skyway Marina District plan is not codified and isn't a regulatory document, they embraced the spirit of that plan and made changes to their plan.

They did meet with multiple stakeholders, and it's difficult when the Skyway Marina District representatives want you to build a big box and you want to build multifamily.

Sometimes you cannot bridge that gap.

And that's what happened in this particular situation.

They did embrace that plan and they carved out a one-acre future commercial parcel, which by the way, they have an LOI now for a food and beverage drive through.

Hopefully, that is comes to fruition very soon.

But at the time, there wasn't an end user when they submitted their site plan.

They also changed their plan multiple times specifically with respect to all of the own the owners up and down 34th Street for better walkability and this really beautiful streetscape that they're gonna put in, preserving the mature trees.

Thoughtful design.

This allows for that lower rent, slightly lower rent, 300 to 500 per month.

That's important.

The choice was deliberate and it was thoughtful, and it was not taken for granted, and neither was the Skyway Marina District plan.

But this site is different than Skytown, it's different than some of the others.

The location is different, the project is different.

It's one piece in a larger district where every single little piece creates a vibrant district.

Culture followed your rules and then some.

Mr.

Grayer talked a lot about different sites and ISR and everything else.

But what you have to look at for your decision is what is true and factual.

That includes the city's professional planning and technical staff finding through reports, documentation, and testify testimony that we meet all the requirements for this approval.

The developers' professional planning and technical experts finding through all of those documentations and testimony that we meet each and every requirement for site plan approval.

DRC reviewed the evidence, and after much discussion and thoughtful deliberation, they voted to approve the site plan.

And they did that and talked about what regulations might be in effect for the future, looking at projects that weren't before them.

They really spent a lot of time looking at that, and it was a significant conversation.

What they found was that Coulter site plan met all the requirements of the code, was a good addition to the Skyway Marina District Plan.

You heard a lot of other voices tonight, other than the Skyway Marina District.

Not tonight, today.

For those other people, the issues are important.

There are more housing options, lower rents, and more residents to support the local business.

Coulter is a best in-class developer.

You've seen their projects.

Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

Thank you.

Okay, the quiet slide judicial proceeding is now closed.

No, no.

Oh, I'm sorry.

You know what?

I got confused all the from when you came up the last time.

So we're not closed.

Let me start that again.

Uh thank you.

Has closing argument rebuttal.

I do.

Okay.

Thank you again for the time.

Uh, in summary, uh, it is clear from the testimony of the engineer uh that the applicant has provided that there is no authority in the code to treat a wet pond, a detention pond, a retention pond.

They've called it different things, they've even called it a water feature, as uh that is designed to hold water as uh pervious.

Um the you can paint it however you want, you could have whatever engineer tell you whatever they want that their conclusion is, but it is more like a pool than it is like grass, it is literally designed to hold water.

I do not see how it could possibly be consistent with the language that we put up is the definitions in the code for impervious.

There is no authority to treat it as pervious, therefore, what is mischaracterized as 11% of the site as pervious, meaning the the storm retention pond would move from that category to impervious, which would take the impervious ratio from 70% to 81%, thus exceeding the allowed 75% by six percent.

It fails on its face, just as a matter of math.

I want to raise an interesting issue here that hasn't come up in prior hearings, including the DRC, but up until today, and that is this affordability angle of this project, that it's satisfying some sort of public need.

The applicant was free to do what Skytown did in its project, which is to commit with a registered document, an income restriction of 30% of the units for 30 years.

That is not the case here.

What we have is a promise that sounds good today and is nowhere to be seen tomorrow.

There's absolutely no requirement to offer lower cost rent options at this property.

You can tell me that you're designing a less expensive product that by no means uh indicates that it will result in a lower rental cost to the end user tomorrow.

As we all know, a rent is going to be determined by whatever is being offered in the community at the time, a willing renter, willing um landlord.

In our case, it was actually registered and it is required for 30 years.

So the applicant was free to do that.

They did not do that, but it's a curious argument to come in at the 11th hour as a justification for a simple lower cost um development option with no retail and no interaction with the community, as was envisioned by the Skyway minute plan.

We literally, um, is the oh, okay.

Well, the city found that the activity center, what the activity center overlay for the sky marina district was implemented or was created to implement the skyway marina plan that is in the package that you received.

You will see it in right here.

That was straight from the staff's memo to the um council.

Uh so I failed to see uh how the sky room in a plan is being ignored.

It was imposed on Sky Town, it was imposed by creating a sequencing requirement that creates a precondition to the being to the to being able to obtain building permits.

So I failed to see how it can be characterized as merely um a suggestion, a vision plan, or something that is voluntary when it was imposed on us as a requirement to go from one phase within our master plan to another.

Um, in addition, 8,000 additional feet square feet were required in order to get approval at the DRC in 2023 for the Sky Town project.

Um the retail has been painted as a very problematic thing to deliver.

We are 100% leased on the retail uh on all of the retail buildings that have been constructed in the first phase of our project.

We are 50% leased or under LOI on the retail included in a building that is under construction and won't be delivered till next year.

Retail is viable in the area, retail is desired in the area.

It was one of the primary things that the public reacted to and was the foundation for the criteria in the skyward marina plan.

We indicated that five out of six of the principal criteria of the skyward marina plan relate to retail.

And regarding the 16 criteria that cancel council mentioned that they allegedly uh meet, I would indicate to you that on criteria number nine, which is compatibility with the neighborhood and the surrounding buildings, is not met because as we indicated, every project has a retail component abutting 34th Street in conjunction with the market rate apartments that were delivered.

When they indicate that there were 10 of 15 that were not mixed use, you will notice that none of those 10, including a car wash, including a donut shop, including other things, none of those 10 that they point to as not having mixed use include market rate apartment, include any apartment.

Uh, but the five that do include market rate apartment all have retail abutting 34th Street, which was the vision of the skyway remote plan, which is what was adopted by this council city council should not be ignored.

Thank you, Mr.

Gayfa.

Okay, now the quasi judicial proceeding is closed, and we will move into executive session.

And before I go to any council member comments, because the issue was raised in terms of what impervious area means and how this applies, I want someone from staff or legal to explain to me in council.

First of all, I think the definition from our code was um brought section 27-371, which is impervious area means a surface area in a parcel real property which presents or severely restricts infiltration of stormwater into the earth.

If that how that play into the calculation or when it pertains to a retention pond, since this issue has been brought up and it's part of this whole thing.

I know we've had conversations before on impervious area, and I mean we've had things like fake grass and gravel that are considered impervious.

So if you can kind of go into that, please.

Sure.

So impervious by definition in the city code and section 16.90.020 says a service that has been compacted or covered with a layer of material, so that is resistant to or prevents info infiltration by stormwater.

It includes what is not limited to roofed areas, pools, and surfaces such as compacted sand, limerock or clay, as well as conventional surface streets, sidewalks, parking lots, pavers, and other similar surfaces.

For the purpose of calculating the ISR, 50% of the surface area of a deck shall be included as imperfect surface.

It goes further in other sections of the code where uh such as gravel, when we talk about gravel and we talk about shell.

When shell and gravel are part of a landscape bed, that's imperv that's pervious.

Uh, when shell is not part of a landscape bed or gravel where you can do a gravel driveway, well now it becomes compacted.

So now it's impervious.

They become impervious over time because they get clogged.

We have a lot of wet ponds throughout the city where water does drain and perk into them, and yes, there's water levels that will remain, but doesn't mean water cannot perk down into the groundwater.

Now I will I'm not an expert, that's our engineering department.

So our engineering department will review this, and they do calculate what they consider to be pervious and not impervious.

So that is something that we would work with them to make sure is that 100% of that pond by engineering standards, pervious to allow water to perk into the ground.

I mean I mean, given that we're at the hearing now, and I would like to have an idea of what how they calculate it.

I mean, typically are stormwater ponds, are they part of the calculation or not?

I mean, this comes up in everything.

Yes, so if you have a stormwater pond that's pervious, um, unless it had a like we have vaults, sometimes like there it's a concrete box, those are impervious unless they're designed with gravel where the water can perk into the ground.

And is this one and but we don't know, you don't have information as to whether or not this is impervious or pervious.

Based on what the engineer here today is telling us, it is just dirt, then they'll have water in it because of a spring or the groundwater, but the water will perk through the dirt or the ground.

So it doesn't have any impervious liner, it won't even have gravel.

Well, the water just goes down, it'll perk into the ground, but it will maintain a certain level of water just because it's a wet pond.

If you look at many of the wet ponds throughout the city, Mary Lake, for instance, right across the street here, that's really a large retention pond.

Right.

So water will perk into the ground from that pond.

Okay, I just want clarification on that.

Okay, we'll go to council member questions and comments.

Councilmember Fig Sanders.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you for um everyone that's here for your thoughtful presentations, and I just wanted to um actually have something to say in regards to both the appellant and the applicants and some of the comments that were provided.

As one of the council members for the Skyway Marina District, um, please know I haven't heard from anybody.

Um, so when they say public record and outreach, I hadn't heard from anybody.

So I'll just go ahead and put that out there first and foremost.

So when I hear um comments that we thoughtfully thought of, well, I wasn't thought about.

When I hear market rate several times, marker rate in my book means my child is still at home because he can't afford market rate.

So I need to know what some of the steps and students are getting paid because market rate is not of a student's income.

Then when I hear a definition of it's just an empty space.

Well, there's nothing wrong with having an empty space.

I don't want to live in a concrete city.

Um, there's nothing wrong with having um some type of green space which we did not get in the Skytown uh development.

So please know that we know what empty promises look like when it comes down to development in the Skyway Marina district.

Then when I hear comments saying, Well, let's just look at what's true and what's factual.

Well, truth is everybody can't afford market rate.

What's factual is a lot of people cannot be in some of these developments that we're touting as a necessary need for the city of St.

Petersburg.

So we've been here before when people have come and said, What you should do, no, what I should do is dive pay taxes.

But when it comes to making a decision for my constituents, what I am going to do is in their best interest.

So I don't appreciate being told what I need to do.

And although I have explicit respect for DRC, um, I look at our constituents and their needs.

Then when I hear the rent is three to five hundred dollars cheaper, well, if I missed it in the presentation, it's three to five hundred dollars to pay for parking.

And if you know anything about where Sur Club is, if you all have gone down 34th Street, I always wonder how the residents park on the street.

They have taken up so much space from SPC because they don't have adequate parking at Sir Club.

Do not have adequate parking at all.

And if it was as simple to get retail as we're making it, we would not still have that blank spot that land that they could not produce retail to this day.

And that was something that was going on when I was elected back in 2019, and we're in 2026.

So again, I I love the fact when people come to us and say what's true and what's factual.

What's true is factual is we haven't been able to fill that spot.

That's true, and that's factual.

So then when we talk about housing for all, housing for who?

It was correct that even with Skytown, they did put a provision in there for affordable housing, and that was something imposed on City of St.

Petersburg.

I did not support Skytown until Mike Van Lou and Amy brought to us that for every phase we would have a certain number of affordable housing units.

That was imposed, and that I do appreciate because I was not um in support of that moving forward without continuing to add market rate of part apartments.

Um let me check my notes, and then I did not hear, unless I left a room, and I don't think I left my seat.

When someone said that the Skyway Marina districts want us to build a box, I didn't hear that.

I did not hear the Skyway Marina representatives say they want us to build a box.

I did not hear that, they want us to build something that is complementary to the Skyway Marina District and the families, and they're absolutely right.

We are not short on retail in Skyway Marina District.

We are not.

There's not an empty building for retail.

So we're not short on that.

So when you use statements about being true and being factual, let's be true and let's be factual.

So they did not say that they want to build a box.

I did not hear that from Ms.

Hubbard, and I didn't hear that forgive me, I forgot your name, but I did not hear that.

So in making certain decisions, again, I know we're here to base it on what the DRC approved, but I also know that we've been in a position before it still does not add up for the best interest for the area.

And again, I'm one of the council members for the Skyway and Renaid District.

Nobody reached out to me at all.

And I'll leave that, I'll leave that there because I want to hear what my constituents have to say.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't know if you guys have any questions.

I'll just make some general comments and then my colleagues.

But um, you know, I have a little bit of a different lens than council may council member Fig Sanders.

Um I look at this trying to fit uh, you know, obviously I think it's very clear uh this is a loud RC one.

I think I heard you say that twice, and so, you know, inside of the code, inside of the comp plan, uh this is obviously, and based on DRC comments and notes, it's very clear that what they want to build is allowed.

Um I appreciate the um comparison to Skytown and building affordable units, but we participated in the cap stack of Skytown, correct?

So that was a requirement in order to do that.

They're not, they're not we don't get to hold them to the same standard there because we're not giving them it, we're not giving them anything in return.

They have a piece, they've bought a piece of land, they're building something on it that's allowed to be built on it, and because of the scale of it, right?

This is why it's in it was in front of a DRC, and then here.

And so I to me it's it's very clear.

I I very much appreciate Marina District coming out and giving feedback.

I I uh it's frankly become one of my favorite districts in the city.

You guys have done an amazing job.

Personally, from district one, I have always thought that increased density, because I'm the least dense district in the city is going to help bring restaurants and businesses to the area.

I would be very frank, I would love some different restaurants and retail places in Tyrone Mall, but I need the density in order to make that happen, and I think this accomplishes that.

So when I when I read the the master plan for the district, I I still think this checks those boxes because although it I mean it sounds like eventually it will have some commercial space on it, by bringing density to that corridor, making it walkable because of what that plan has helped envision.

I I think it automatically helps bring those things uh to the district, and I and I that's how I have thought about it since we have discussed Raytheon uh over the last four years, and frankly, now we we're discussing the St.

P College property.

Um, and so I I think all of those things help create those things.

Um Chair, I appreciate you bringing up impervious ratio at the beginning.

I I I think it's a very creative argument, Frank.

And Frank, I I you know, I spoke it.

You're your groundbreaking.

I think it's an amazing project, but I just I just don't know.

I can't connect with a stormwater retention pond, which is part of the stormwater system to help move water away and then into the earth or into our water bays, is not considered pervious.

I just that just it doesn't connect in my brain.

And so anyway, and again, I think again, I'm gonna go back to what I started with, which is RC one explicitly allows the standalone housing.

And I I just don't I I haven't heard an argument that can get me to another place other than that.

So that's where I'm at.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Harding.

Thank you, Chair.

Um I think that that both parties deserve to hear from all of us.

Um I think that for me it it before we vote, it hinged um in this case.

Well, let me back up a step to override DRC is a is a high bar for me.

Those are the experts uh in this organization.

Um and for me, this this came down to the the argument and it was um well presented impervious versus impervious.

Um I have first-hand knowledge we built on our property, um, and we we shrunk the size of the building we wanted to build so that we could build um the pond bigger, and it was pervious versus impervious um that it came down to um and and so that that was the the crux of the uh of this debate for me.

Um I do understand uh on a separate note, uh I understand and appreciate um Councilmember Fig Sanders tremendously um beyond this.

Um but her her uh I I sit on the opposite side.

Um affordable housing um is attained only through uh public involvement.

Um let's be clear that the developers are are for profit companies and they're made whole from the city, and that's how we end up with affordable housing.

Um but to the point of um for the the sake of argument to the for the point to the point of um of market rate, market rate is uh is not set by the developer, it's set by the market, hence the name.

Uh the only way to make to make uh units more affordable for those two young ladies in the back who are going to be up here presenting as full attorneys in the next year and three years, I believe, um, is one of two ways.

Either the demand goes down or folks come in and add to our inventory.

Um, so by virtue of the logic, this should drive market rate down to an extent.

Um, but I appreciate the time.

I appreciate um both the appellant and the applicant coming and presenting.

And uh Chair, thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Councilmember Gibbons.

Thank you very much.

You know, land use laws exist for a reason.

Um, and I'm glad they do because they help make decisions like this a little bit easier for people like us.

Um, this is a tough one.

Uh, as my colleague said, I represent this district.

I'm the other council member who shares this district with her.

And so when you think about market rate housing and what's available for you know folks like myself who are living on one single income, and we don't have extra money lying around to pay exorbitantly high rents.

We depend on having that missing middle.

Um, infill housing is needed in St.

Pete, and I'm excited to see uh Blight being eliminated.

I'm excited to see underdeveloped land being put to good use.

Um, when you look at the 16 criteria that's before us today for consideration, this development checks all those boxes, everything from use to density to parking, um, it's all there, height setback, even retail.

There is no minimum requirement.

Um, but I think there's some good comparisons that we can look at.

For example, Altus Cardinal, you have some other opportunities there, where we can put some retail on that corridor at a later date.

So this isn't an end-all be-all, um, but I definitely think this is a good foot in the right direction.

Um, when you look at the RC one standards, again, this meets the DRC minimum requirements.

So, to council member Harding's point, they're the experts, um, and they're the ones who we trust to make decisions like this a little bit easier.

Um, I would like to get a little clarity, Corey.

If you don't mind, can we talk a little bit about the public notice required for this particular development?

Was there any required public notice period?

There was.

And did we put that out there and share that information?

Yeah, so the code requires a couple different things.

So 10 days prior to an application being submitted to the city, they provide any uh notice of intent to file to any neighborhood or business association.

Uh so the Skyway Marina did receive an email saying we will be submitting to the city.

Uh, please reach out to us if you so like.

Uh, then there is the public notice that the city prepares and then provides to the applicant, and they mail it out to property owners within 300 feet of that subject property, and we also send it to Kona, Council Neighborhood Associations, and again any business or neighborhood associations, uh, of the meeting date and the time and who the contact at the city or even putting the applicants' information on there, they can contact the applicant.

Um, we've many times people do call.

Can I reach out to the applicant?

You sure can.

Uh, here's their phone number, here's our email, it's public record.

Um, they have not reached out to you.

Um, and then of course, for this project for the appeal, there's another notice and out about this as well.

And I appreciate you sharing that.

You know, this public forum was the public's opportunity to come and provide some feedback, and I appreciate those who did take time out of their day to come and to provide that.

Um it's important that we hear from you all because again, uh this is what democracy is all about.

We're not always gonna get what we want, we don't always win every battle, but it's important that we show up and that we speak our minds and that we let us as elected officials know how we feel about things like this.

Um, when I look at this district, the Skyway Marina District, it's come a long way from where it was 15, 20 years ago.

Um, and when I look at the cost of living in St.

Petersburg, it just keeps getting higher and higher.

And so we have to think about how do we strike a balance.

Well, it's gonna come with putting more units on the market that are affordable.

And when I see lower rents that are 300 to 500 less than what we're seeing in that area, I get happy.

So I'm excited uh to move forward with this.

Um I will be denying the appeal and affirming the DRC's decision.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Councilmember Fix Handers.

Thank you.

Okay, so thank you.

I'm glad I heard what everyone had to say, and I want to oh you want to go.

Okay.

Oh, okay.

Um, and so let me be clear, and I think I I I stated it as eloquently as I can.

I'm still in the same position of being the voice um of some of the constituents in my district, and I'm not gonna ever back down for that.

I'm still in the same position of wanting the outreach to be clear and accessible.

And when you say that you sent the notice out within 300 feet of this the the development, let's look at 300 feet from the development.

And all neighborhood associations are not members of Kona, and everyone doesn't go and check the city of St.

Petersburg's uh website on a regular basis.

So although the attempt seemed good, the outcome I think could have been better.

So when I I said before, I hold DRC to the highest up highest regard.

Um and it's not a request to deny or satisfy the appeal, because like I said, it met all the criteria, but at some point there has to be a voice for our developers to hear that there are certain steps you still need to take.

Rather you checked all the box or not, logistically, humanistically, when it comes down to the people that live in the city of St.

Petersburg, we and they need to be taken and their voices need to be heard just a little bit louder.

You know, because we we talk about you know, you know, the the putting the the quantity out there to lower the rates, but in the meantime, while the quantity is being put out there, so many of our residents are being put out, literally, out of the city of St.

Petersburg, literally.

So what are they supposed to do?

Wait until we have all of these developments and then come back, they've already gone.

They've already left the city.

So again, my voice is gonna be the voice that's gonna always be heard when it comes down to our constituents, and how I'm hoping we can move forward with some of the other developments rather than check the list.

There are a lot of things that used to check the list, and I thank God they no longer check the list.

There were things that we used to have to live by, and I thank God that there's those things that we no longer have to live by.

So again, my point is we still need to be mindful of not just checking the list.

I'm not there of always just checking the list.

Did DRC approve it?

Did it meet all the requirements?

Absolutely.

Should it be a comparison to Skytown because of the affordable housing?

Maybe maybe not.

But even with Marina Walk and we talk about those retailers, I got calls from those retailers.

That location was not ready for those retailers.

They're having issues as well, but I'm sure nobody talked to those retailers.

So when I hear different things about checking the box, I don't ask for forgiveness.

I'm gonna continue to want to advocate for those, although it did check the box.

So now I can check mine.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Ice Chair Floyd.

Thank you.

I'll be uh brief.

I'll just say, Councilmember Gurtis, you said exactly what I was thinking.

The use appears uh uh allowed in the location.

I understand the concerns actually from the uh uh the appellant and the Skyway Marina District in that uh, especially when you talk about the Skyway Marina plan, but those plans are uh guiding documents for us and and not uh holistically adopted into our code and our land development regulations.

So while I do believe it would be ideal if there was things like um, you know, uh uh more activating uses like retail and whatnot, uh I do think that the addition of more residents to the area will help benefit the places that have created retail spaces.

Um and then you know, having said all of that, I just when I look at it and I look at what's built in other places around the area and uh what's required of us uh through the comp plan and whatnot, I just don't see a reason why uh the the um why why I guess I'm now I'm struggling over the language.

I don't see a reason why it should the appeal should be upheld.

I see a reason for the appeal to be denied is what I would say.

Um and so I just wanted to uh put that out there for everybody so they know where I was coming from.

It's just it appears that it's very, very possible for them to build that there and for us to say no would uh at this phase seems um uh ill advised.

Okay, yeah, the other council members wishing to speak.

Okay.

Some of what I've been thinking about has been said, but I want I want to start off.

If first of all, Councilmember Fig Sandrews, I feel you because it's your district, and the idea, this is a large development.

So the idea that, you know, a large part of the community may not have been heard of, you know, that's a problem, you know, and that's important to take into consideration.

I mean, and I think for all developers out there, it's just something to keep in mind, especially with a big development.

Um, the DRC did approve this, right?

It wasn't unanimous, so it's not a home run, okay, to be clear.

There were comments in there, um, that one of them specifically struck me.

Um, it was from Commissioner Clemens, and I'm gonna quote what part of what he said.

He said, I just feel you've made an internally organized scheme and not a community-oriented scheme.

You've made a very nice internal 619-unit community that focuses to the middle of its own self and not to the community that it connects to.

That's my opinion.

That's what he said.

And then he continues, and he says, I think you could have done better, and maybe you can consider some ways to make it better, perhaps.

And it sounds like maybe some of that is gonna happen, and I think that's some of the consternation that we hear from the other side.

I know it got a little heated earlier, but I think people need to understand this is part of a community, and people feel very strongly about their community, and we get this in every type of quasi-judicial uh hearing.

Um, you know, we talked about the plan and the Skyway Marina plan, and this issue has come up in various ways, and I I want to just touch upon this because it is something that I want the community to understand.

It is frustrating for me sometimes and for others because they do really care about whether it's the marina plan, the grant the Skyway Marina plan, the Skyway, um, the um neighborhood plans, Grand Central, all these districts, all these neighborhoods have plans.

Sometimes those plans have portions of it that are implemented, like it's been said in the meeting in the code, but the rest of it is not binding, it is a visionary type of document, and it's guidelines, and so it's hard for people to understand that because they look at that and they put it to the level of our code or a comprehensive plan, and it's not even though a lot of those ideals are things that we hold very dear to our heart, but the only thing that really has traction is the code.

Now, when you talk about special conditions of approval and you look at those, and it was brought up that the first thing, the first number one says the site and buildings should be designed to incorporate components of the Skyway Marina District design guidelines.

Every attorney will tell you the operative word there is should, and everything else is shall.

Anytime you see should, it's not mandatory.

But it's still something that I think that the applicant and other need to consider.

And I will say that there are times that we've had these type of matters come before us, and people go so far one way that it does change ordinances and cause so much consternation, then there is a pushback.

And so I it's something to really think about because whenever we get things and I start looking at something, it's like, well, how are we doing this?

There is an opportunity to change the code or whatever, and some things can be resolved much easier than that, but it's something I think that everyone should keep in mind.

Um, sometimes it's not easy to change the code as the attorney suggested, because sometimes we have the legislature that preempts us, and so even though it's very easy to say, well, you can change the code, a lot of times we can't, because right now we can't if it's too burdensome or restrict restrictive, and I think you know that.

So it it's when the opportunity presents itself.

So with that being said, obviously, I feel I land where obviously council member Gurtis and um council member Floyd mentioned and Harding.

Um I did read, by the way, Skyway Marina's letter, and I do appreciate the advocacy uh in your letter.

Um a lot of the things that you said resonate with me, but but then some of that is not mandatory, and you do mention about we are the final policy authority.

We are the final policy authority, but within our code, within our guidelines, you know, in terms of the code and the comprehensive plan and the binding nature of those things, those are policies too.

They just come to life in a format of law.

So I just wanted to make sure that everyone here understood.

I heard you loud and clear and I heard both sides, and I really do appreciate uh why the appeal came before us, but I'm gonna have to deny it myself.

So with that being said, um, uh legal.

If you can, I we do this every time because it's always very awkward how this motion has to be worded, and it's very important for legal to kind of instruct us on how to word the motion and how the vote has to be if you're for or against.

So legal.

So again, motion should be in the affirmative.

So an affirmative motion for this would be a motion to grant the appeal.

The effect of granting the appeal or a yes vote means that you grant the appeal, and that's overturning the DRC district and is a no to the project.

So a yes vote to a motion to grant the appeal is a no to the project.

Move approval of the appeal.

Second.

We have a motion and a second, clerk.

If you can open machine to voting, council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing that all present council members have voted.

Clerk, please tally announce the vote.

Madam Chair, the motion to approve agenda item J4 to grant the appeal fails one to six.

With council member Fix Sanders voting yes.

Council members Driscoll, Floyd, Gurtis, Givens, Hannah Wis, and Harding voting no.

Okay, thank you, and thank you everyone for that was here for the hearing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

So we're going forward on the agenda.

It's almost 5 30.

We just finished the quasi-judicial, and we're gonna go into public hearings.

I'll wait for everybody to kind of leave the room so we can start with the public hearings.

And if if someone could if someone can let people know if they can move it so we don't have to hear them outside.

Someone from staff, please.

Okay, the first up we have is J1.

It's an ordinance in accordance with city or section 1.02, C B 5B, authorizing the public transportation grant agreement and the assurances attached to the PTGA to be executed by the city as a requirement for receipt of the FDOT grant for the design phase of the taxiway, a rehabilitation project.

And we have Mr.

Lesniak here.

Can we do J1 and J2 together?

Yes, we can do J1 and J2, I think.

Can we?

Oh, we can't?

Okay.

I guess we're group approval J1.

I'm trying to read.

Oh, I apologize.

That's my fault.

That's okay.

You gotta go to the bathroom.

Me too.

I'm waiting.

Um J one proposed ordinance number 634-H.

An ordinance in accordance with section one point zero two C5B, St.

Petersburg City Charter authorizing the public transportation grant agreement.

Parentheses PTGA and the assurances grant and the assurances, parentheses, grant assurances, which are attached to the PTGA to be executed by the city, excuse me, as a requirement for receipt of the Florida Department of Transportation, parentheses F dot grant for the design phase of the taxiway a rehabilitation project, parentheses two one two six six at the Albert Wooded Airport.

Authorizing such encumbrances or restrictions not to exceed 20 years from the effective date of the PTGA.

Authorizing the mayor or his designee to accept the grant and the amount of 9,600 authorizing the mayor or his designee to execute all documents necessary to effectuate this ordinance, providing an effective date and providing for expiration.

Move approval J1.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Clerk, if you can open the machine for voting.

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing that all present council members have voted.

Clerk please tally announce the vote.

Madam Chairmotion to approve agenda item J1 passes unanimously with Council Member Fix Sanders being absent.

Thank you.

Next up, we have J2.

Clerk.

J2, proposed ordinance number 635-H and ordinance of the City of St.

Petersburg, amending City Code Chapter 6 Aviation, updating terminology and regulations to comply with federal and state law, creating consistency with primary management and compliance documents and the Albert Witted Master Plan, providing for severality and providing an effective date.

We have no cards.

Move approval J2.

Second.

You have a motion and a second.

Clerk, if you can open the machine for voting.

Council members, please enter your votes.

Seeing that all present council members have voted.

Clerk please telling the house vote.

Madam Chair, motion to approve a joint item.

J2 passes unanimously with Councilmember Fix Sanders being absent.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Lazniak, for joining us.

Next up we have J3, an ordinance amending the city code creating a new section 16.30.060 transient oriented development overlay providing for transit oriented development districts, including establishing establishment of the Sunrunner BRT overlay.

Clerk.

Proposed ordinance number 633-H.

An ordinance amending the St.

Petersburg City Code, creating a new section 16.30.060, Transit Oriented Development Overlay, providing for transit oriented development districts, including establishment of the Sunrunner BRT, parentheses bus rapid transit overlay, providing for station area types and descriptions, providing standards for development, design, and parking, providing for severability, and providing an effective date.

And we have a number of speakers for this item.

Okay.

Last time I know we had a presentation, my Mr.

Kilborn.

I don't know if anybody needs another presentation.

No, I understand he wants to speak, but I'm sorry, what?

I just wanted to note to Madam Chair for the record that there were requested revisions that were made to the ordinance.

So we have a revised version based on the first reading pup public hearing motions.

Okay, that's what I want to make sure.

Do we want to put that?

Do we have to we don't have to go through the whole thing though?

You don't have to.

I just wanted to state for the record, and both uh both a strike through and underline and a clean copy were provided for your packet.

Yeah.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

So we have public comment and council member Harding.

Okay, I'm gonna call two speakers at a time.

When I call your name, please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You will have three minutes to address city council.

First two speakers are Tara Hubbard and Sherry Riley.

Huh?

Oh.

Before we get public comment, um council member Harding.

Yes.

Thank you, Chair.

Um Chair, intend to recuse myself from this item to avoid any appearance of conflict due to my business interest in the potentially affected property.

Thank you very much.

With your permission, I'll leave the dice.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now we can have public comments.

Hello, my name is Tara Hubbard.

I live at 47th Street in 6 Av South, right near the 49th Street Sunrunner Stop, about half a mile.

And here again tonight to speak in favor of this TOD overlay.

Thank you for your support during first reading.

Really eager to see the support here in our city and giving some precedence to future transit-oriented development overlays that we'd love to see here in St.

Pete to promote walkability and livability here.

So wanted to uh come back.

I know last time I just softly mentioned uh the vision of being able to implement some tree preservation standards in this overlay, as we know this is going to create more density, which is great along uh bus rapid transit BRT corridor, but I think it would be really uh incredible to be able to smartly as we're going through this overlay to be able to uh give developers incentives to preserve old growth trees in the overlay.

Uh, I think that could be an interesting uh innovative uh technique.

I know the city has toyed with this before, uh, giving these incentives.

Also talking about stormwater runoff.

I know uh earlier tonight there was the discussion around pervious and impervious as well with increased density.

Obviously, there's going to be more uh impervious area.

So being able to again uh include incentives here to promote pervious area in the development corridor would be really interesting.

Uh Sherry Riley over here, I know sent an email out talking about a technique of first inch uh preservation.

So just an idea of something that we could add tonight.

Uh, first inch, any redevelopment using the Sunrunner BRT overlay shall manage the first inch of rainfall from new impervious surfaces on site before discharge to the public stormwater system.

Approved methods include bioswales, rain gardens, permeable pavement, green roofs, cisterns, and tree trenches.

The performance standard governs the method remains flexible.

So something like that would be really cool if we could toy with that, as well as canopy preservation, preserving qualifying mature canopy trees, which is I think uh designated by the city as minimum 12-inch DBH, which is diameter documented in a site plan canopy assessment.

Um this could apply quarter-wide, including neighborhood station areas where it becomes the sole available bonus.

So being able to heighten the bonuses around uh first inch preservation as well as the uh old growth tree preservation is something that we're looking forward to hopefully integrating tonight.

Uh wanted to highlight, I read recently in a St.

Pete Rising post that there is a development of a 21-story condo tower on Third Avenue North on the northeast corner of Third Avenue North, and the developers were granted a sidewalk variance reducing the walkway in that preserved old growth tree.

So, great inspiration.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Sherry Riley.

I'm uh live in Burlington and um Thurlington Avenue and 63rd in District 1 in Lake Pasadena States.

Um I think you all got a letter from me, maybe I'm not sure, but again, what Tara was saying, um, it just struck me.

I'm I'm I'm for the density.

I think it's great.

It's gonna help us in terms of our um uh it you know, just kind of keeps everything concentrated.

I think it's a wonderful, wonderful idea, but I'm very concerned that as we are just about to make this amazing offer to developers in terms of density, we have all of a sudden made these properties much more valuable to renovate and and and use.

Um we are not asking anything from them in terms of infrastructure, which I think is really really important.

So I would say I like the first inch uh the you know, it says according to the EPA, the um uh Florida Department of Um Environmental Protection.

The first inch carries 90 percent of the pollution.

90% of the pollution.

If we could, and again, like Tara mentioned, many, many ways to get there.

Our tree ordinances, for the most part, the state of Florida after the hurricanes have been gutted, and you can take a tree down for any reason.

So if we want to encourage the developers to keep the old growth trees, those things they they're they provide more than canopy and shade.

They also help sequester water.

So that formula, and there are databases that you can utilize that show, you know, this caliper tree saves you this much work.

Start that at the beginning of the process.

When we've got up to potentially 95% impervious coverage that we're going for on this eight mile, essentially slip and slide we've got sending water to the bay and water to the intercoastal.

Nine lanes of traffic.

And now we're saying up to 95% impervious impervious coverage.

That five percent, we gotta make work hard to hold water.

So I'm saying that should be the first consideration that should be very defined so we don't wind up with what we're wound up with in the last uh you know item that you were discussing where there's it's kind of like we don't know, you know.

What's pervious?

What's not pervious?

Button that up.

I that would just be my suggestion.

And um again, it's just simply just uh to either you know continue the item briefly to add companion language or adopt it with a clear direction that the staff return within a defined time frame, addressing a first inch or canopy first standards, take in consideration the trees that are already there.

Um you can drive up and down central right now and look at you know the little ribbon of of uh uh sod and palm trees.

That could be rain gardens, that could be, you know, there's all kinds of things that can be done that are not expensive while we're just about to give these developers a whole lot more density.

It's a tiny ask with the big big payoff for everybody.

So that's that's what I would say.

And I would say, and and it's something to think about for the whole city.

Thank you.

Next two speakers are John Tyler and Kamal Hassenbally.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Go ahead, sir.

Me first?

Yeah, you can go ahead.

Hi, good evening.

My name is Shamal Hassembelli.

I am uh the developer and owner of uh 2801 Central Avenue.

Uh I'm here tonight to to discuss the current FAR and uh the 2.5 uh FAR or three uh with the bonuses, and we're here to ask for for our our corner, our block to be included in the current uh proposed uh five five FAR for uh that you know it includes uh most of the the Sunrunner.

The problem the issue that we're seeing in our in our area, especially our corner is left out out of the the current development, and uh we feel it's a little unfair and unintentional and unfair because economic economics don't allow us to do any uh potential or meaningful development um in the corner there.

I will sit in here and listen to the other arguments as well.

You know, I'm uh sort of a victim of that uh if I may say so uh of the uh the potential that these properties show on uh theory to develop but uh feasibility of financial feasibility with such lower FARs do not make it viable projects.

You know, last year we had uh development in this corner for uh 60 affordable units, uh eight-story building, which became uh suddenly became unviable due to the restrictions, the the required bonuses, and uh the affordability component that was required by the city to into this uh this project.

Eventually we had to abandon it for for some you know something a lot more smaller.

In turn, we we lost about 400,000 in predevelopment cost, real money.

Uh the city lost um a potential development and 60 units, uh, which we if we had that 5.0 FAR from the get go, this would have been uh perfectly.

I mean, we probably would have been halfway through with the project by now.

So that's you know, 60, 60 units, auto affordable um uh housing that would have been you know coming into the market fairly soon.

And also uh another issue that I wanted to bring up is the the quarter mile radius from uh from the bus, the bus stop, uh, the transit bus stop that leaves us uh just shy, couple hundred feet.

I I want to say, uh, from our property.

Urban development and urban realities don't change within a block or or a few hundred feet.

We have uh many, many other um uh districts within uh Central Avenue that are utilizing the same framework, and we want that to we're asking that to be applied to our uh to our you know 28th and 29th between 28th and 29th block, which currently is uh grossly underdeveloped with 14 properties left empty, stagnant.

So our problem is not over development, it's under the uh yeah, John Tyler.

I live at 3701 uh 13th Avenue North.

Um I'm here today just to speak uh again.

I spoke at the first hearing about this, about my support for this uh rezoning.

Um, one of the reasons, as I just kind of mentioned before, is currently like my wife and I, we want to go do something in the evenings, we have to cross 34th Street on our bikes or on foot, and it's frankly a dangerous, unpleasant crossing.

We would just love to see our side of uh Central Avenue uh redeveloped uh right now.

There's just nothing really for us to do there.

There's just giant parking lots and single story buildings with four lease signs, and it's like okay, can we have some stuff going on?

And another reason uh I support this is I I do the uh sunrunner uh ride along with the chamber, and we were at the trade winds resort, and the manager there, she was telling us about workers of hers that arrive using the sunrunner.

But right now, a lot of them is really just no housing on that corridor that they can afford, they sometimes are doing two or three bus switches, sometimes from outside of St.

Pete, north of us, and so they're having to spend, you know, an hour or so commuting to their job at the trade winds, which is time that they're not with their spouses, they're not with their children.

It's bad for their quality of life.

So to get some more housing along this route, so that you know, along a bus route with 15-minute lead times for stops, means that these people have more time with their kids, more time with their spouses, just a better quality of life, whether they're working in the beachside resorts or they're working in the downtown hospitality or medical type of jobs.

Um, this just would really improve uh their quality of life.

But anyways, I want to thank the staff and the council for all the work that they've uh done on this.

Uh, it's very much appreciated.

Um, and I look forward to other uh projects going forward, whether it be with the Pinellas Trail, other corridors, uh, just making it so that people can live and run businesses at locations more accessible to these bike service bike trails or to these public transit services.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next two speakers are Jason Mathis and Max McCann.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Good evening.

My name is Jason Mathis, and I'm the CEO of the St.

Petersburg Downtown Partnership.

It is a pleasure as always to see you and thank you as always for your service.

Um sitting through the portion of the meeting that I did sit through tonight reminded me how selfless you are in looking out for the interests of our community.

So thank you for that.

Um I know there might be some question about whether downtown would.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't say my my location.

It's really bad.

244 second out of north.

I apologize.

Downtown partnership.

I'm used to this, I should get that down.

It's like when you don't push the mute button on your Zoom after all these years.

Um I just want to say there was some question about whether downtown would be included in the new parking strategy uh with the no parking minimums, and it's something that I think is important if possible to include in downtown.

Um any objective measure would say that downtown is actually overparked.

There may be a few times a year when downtown seems particularly crowded during the height of the season when all the snowbirds are in town, we have a lot of tourists in town.

It might be difficult to find a place to park on Beach Drive right in front of your favorite restaurant.

But most of the time, 95% of the time, we have actually far too much parking downtown.

And if there's any concern that a large development might get built downtown that would not have adequate parking, I can assure you that no funder would ever allow that to happen.

The market will take care of it.

No building will get built downtown in a significant way uh without adequate parking because the banks wouldn't loan them the money to do that.

So, to the extent that you can include downtown in this, I think it would make a lot of sense, and we would be very grateful.

Thank you again, and thank you for your service.

Hi, good evening, everyone.

Max McCann and Sloan McCann.

Sloan McCann.

We're at 3rd Avenue South and 27th Street.

Here to speak in support of these reforms and to ask that the downtown stations be included.

First, I want to say thanks for all the support we got at the first hearing.

That was very humbling and encouraging, and it filled me with hope to know that we're taking this important step towards creating a more livable St.

Pete, and I'm personally excited about having more uh shopping and restaurant opportunities within walking distance.

I'm excited my daughter will have more housing options in about 10 years when she wants to move out if she wants to move out.

Is that right?

Um what another thing I love about this reform is it doesn't cost us anything.

We spend a lot of money subsidizing housing, but this is something we can do that doesn't add a single dollar to our budget.

I've handed up an updated letter so that you can see the current coalition, the current members of the people over pavement coalition, because we have some recent additions like uh the Affordable Housing Developer Blue Sky Communities and the PSTA Transit Writers Advisory Committee.

So uh also in our letter, you can see we've been advocating to include all Sunrunner stations in the exemption.

The reason this didn't come up very much at first read is uh I thought we it was already included.

My read of that language is if your use is within a quarter mile of a station and your use is included in the overlay, like it's residential, commercial, mixed, etc.

Then your property is exempt.

That that's the way I read this.

City staff has since updated the GIS map to show that they are interpreting this as not including the downtown stations.

So I I've submitted language that would clarify that the downtown stations are included, and frankly, we should because uh all of the many, many reasons for doing this apply even more so to downtown.

So I hope you'll adopt that language tonight.

With that being said, let's get this done.

Let's make housing more affordable and let's start building some more great people-oriented places that make St.

Pete what it is.

Thank you all so much.

Okay.

Next two speakers are Jean Roney and Jeff Danner.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Go ahead.

Good evening, everyone.

I'm Jeannie Roney.

I live at 2501 Third Avenue North in St.

Pete.

Um, I'm all for the density.

I'm all for a more walkable city.

The only thing I'm opposed to is the parking.

We can't remove or allow more places to come in without parking.

That west end of St.

Pete is already extremely low with parking.

A lot of the businesses along Central Avenue are struggling because there's people that want to go, they just don't have anywhere to park.

We see it in our neighborhoods now where there's extra parking coming in all the time, which is great.

I love the growth.

I'm thrilled with the growth that we've seen in our city, especially since COVID.

But adding more density without parking, it's just not feasible.

Not for that area, not right now.

That's all I've got.

Thanks.

Okay, thank you.

My name's Jeff Dan.

I live at 2351 Dartmouth Avenue North.

Um I sent you all a letter, it was rather lengthy, but I think there's a lot of issues here that um need to be addressed.

Um, the goal of every community that decides to build or rebuild a mixed-use community eventually wants to reduce the amount of real estate dedicated to automobile traffic.

Grand Central's provided the opportunity for more dancing housing options and uses which bring more people, more business, and more transit opportunities.

People seem to have forgotten or never knew that Central Avenue Corridor was 12 lanes at one time.

Um all cars, higher speeds, there was no walkability, there was no bike lanes, transit lanes.

Um, and over time, we supported of the reducing of that lanes from 12 to 6.

Very few cities have limited half of their main corridor parking lanes.

Two lanes added, bike lane or two transit lanes added, bike lanes added, and we would like the rider to be ridership to be high, and it will eventually.

We've reduced the minimum parking requirements on site in Grand Central already, with the goal of at the appropriate time to dedicate less space to car storage as the need diminishes.

The zoning and land use didn't force anyone to change their type of housing.

It didn't force anyone to ride a transit system, it didn't force anyone to eat or entertain anything the districts offer.

It gave them options and was successful in attracting people to take advantage of those options.

This proposal is not going to force people to get rid of their cars by eliminating parking requirements.

It will do is force them to go elsewhere if it's too inconvenient and there is competition.

Fourth Street is a mixed-use corridor, it's not very walkable, it has local business, but also has tons of parking for miles behind every one of those businesses.

And when it becomes too difficult in the heat or the rain to go walk more than the quarter mile, walking five, six, seven blocks, they'll just go somewhere else.

What will happen is the users of the required parking are the ones that occupy will be the ones to occupy on-street parking, and they're the ones who take the spaces longest.

These are employees and residents that need parking for eight or ten hours or even twenty-four hours.

The local businesses need turnover.

They need anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour for lunch, a little longer, maybe longer in the evenings.

What they need is turnover.

This proposal for no parking requirements is gonna harm the turnover in that district.

They require constant flow and they need that turnover.

The real question is why are we doing this now?

The problem is being solved.

There is no excess of parking, and the reality is there's five miles of Central Avenue west of 34th Street that want the underlying codes to allow the mixed use and the things that have happened on Central Avenue east of 34th Street.

Um we can't seem to leave Grand Central alone and start working on that five miles.

When that all that is changed, there are thousands of housing of opportunities, business opportunities on the section of Grand Central that want it.

And you should be concerned because while now while I hear from developers and neighbors in that area, they want those changes.

They want the gas stations to be converted to restaurants and things we have.

But when you go there, they might change that idea.

Thank you.

Next two speakers are Bill Hillman and Ryan Hess.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross streets for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Hello.

Bill Hillman, 2828 Central Avenue.

I'm here to urge City Council to evenly increase the floor area ratio across the entire Grand Central District to 8.6 and bring it into alignment with the height of 86.

Uh FAR building height and parking requirements have been out of alignment for 26 years, effecting effectively creating a zoning bottleneck and preventing meaningful growth in the Grand Central District.

Thankfully, four weeks ago, City Council boldly voted to remove parking requirements for the residential development within the corridor and around the Sunrunner stops.

A portion of the bottleneck can be attributed to inconsistency.

In the overlay, blocks 25, 26, 27, and 28, Shamal was speaking to this, have been assigned a far uh FAR of 2.5, which is curious considering the 28th Street has four through lanes and uh two left turn, two left turn lanes, which uh normally this type of road would dictate higher zoning and not less.

Um another curiosity is the Mary Jean was um built in 1926 and has the equivalent of a uh FAR three and uh the these adjacent blocks are assigned a value of 2.5.

The um a higher FAR FAR combined with the removal of parking requirements will enable the development of smaller car-free, car-friendly, light uh residential units in low and mid-rise buildings.

There's a growing demand for these type of housing units, uh both from younger and older residents seeking to reduce their financial burden of car ownership, allowing more people to live within the district.

The city can create a built-in daily customer base that supports local businesses without additional parking.

Something that has not been achieved from the transit ridership of the Sunrunner.

The Grand Central District's proximity to downtown makes it ideal location for both urban zoning and provides an opportunity to move beyond outdated planning approaches that prioritize cars over people.

I respectfully ask you adopt the uh adopt a consistent FAR of 8.6 across the Grand Central District, and for the first time in 26 years, align the FAR with the proposed height of 86.

This will uh increase housing inventory, strengthen local businesses, increase BRT ridership, and help create a truly walkable, people-oriented urban uh neighborhood.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Uh thanks for this forum.

Appreciate it, guys.

My name's Ryan Hess, 2900 First Avenue North, corner first and 29th.

Um, I'm the owner of Kathy's Pizza, um, one of the partners.

Um, so we uh we came to the neighborhood of uh you know Grand Central District and historic Kenwood district in uh 2007.

We started looking at St.

Peter in 2005 because we really wanted to be kind of a part of the tapestry of I'm a lifelong Tampa St.

Pete resident, so uh this is where we wanted to be.

Um so uh we were we opened and uh got the uh rent started to rent our lease our building in 07 and uh opened in 08, end of the crash, which uh came with its you know fair share of uh challenges.

Um but we scrapped and clawed, and uh in 2013 we were able to uh purchase the restaurant from our uh the previous owner who was a lifelong St.

Pete resident.

Um we have um been here for a long time, have no plans of going anywhere.

We've been you know, love St.

Pete and enjoyed watching the growth and being a part of the growth that the city has enjoyed.

So um, time check here is my first time doing this.

So I'm basically in short, here to lend my voice to this uh FAR uh question uh because uh basically you know we've uh worked through uh COVID uh with everybody have those challenges, and in 2022, as a sunrunner kind of began to take hold.

Uh obviously uh parking was forfeited first south, first north, um, which we felt uh by the grace of God and um narrowly we were able to secure the building next door for uh for purchase in 2023 solely for parking.

Actually, had to have a face-to-face conversation with the urban, or sorry, first a phone conversation with the previous owner to ensure we weren't developers, that we were just needed our business to survive, and uh, needed to have uh because with the density and all the density improvements, we still um are not realizing enough density to support just from the neighborhood.

So we have people that come in by car from other neighborhoods.

So we have 25-26 spaces, which we needed, and uh it was really a survivability question for us.

So um, uh right now is I've been made aware that uh there's these three point six uh blocks of the 15 blocks of our neighborhood uh that are earmarked for a 2.5 to 3 uh FAR.

Um, I'm here, but you know, don't want unbridled growth or a responsible growth.

Um I'm excited with the vibrancy of the city, uh, but what I'm really here for is just to ask for a fair and equitable and meaningful uh FAR for all 15 blocks of the Grand Central District, wherever that lands.

I just think that if there's winners and losers, uh just seems a little bit unequitable.

Uh thank you.

Thank you.

Next two speakers are Jamika Williams and Matt Armstrong.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross streets for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Go ahead.

Hi.

Good evening.

My name is Jamika Williams, and I reside at 10 Crescent Lake Drive, the cross streets of 9th and Crescent Lake here in St.

Petersburg.

I was not planning on leaving my house today, but I wanted to make it a point to support Activate St.

Pete and the PTSA and their efforts to amend zoning codes to help activate the current BRT that will improve the lives of so many residents in our city.

We've heard a lot about affordable housing, but if people don't have access to meaningful employment, they can't pay their rent or continue to contribute to our community.

And so with that, I ask you to approve this measure so that people like me who can't even consider certain jobs because transportation is such a barrier, can have increased access to gainful employment and to also to take much more needed stress off our roads and our environment.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Matt Armstrong, 831st Street South of St.

Petersburg Distillery.

The pleasure of working here in St.

Pete for the last seven years.

Been in Florida since 2003, Colorado native.

But uh Florida is been home longer than I lived in Colorado.

It's a beautiful city.

We're trying to relocate our family down here, but it has been challenging because of the rapid cost uh of housing.

There's a it's a big increase.

I've got four kids, uh, the oldest of which is 20, uh, the youngest of which is soon to be 10.

Um, the older kids want a city that uh doesn't require them to have to have a car.

Uh they'd rather not drive.

Uh my 17-year-old daughter is not interested in driving, neither is my 20-year-old son.

So for them, they're they've been watching this very closely.

We talked about it.

Uh my background as a as an urban planner and architect uh sometimes bores them because they get tired of me pointing out things.

Oh, we should have done this, or we could have done that.

Wouldn't it be great?

The dad stopped complaining, do something about it.

So I'm here just to put in my two cents.

Thank you for for the hearing last time.

It was probably one of the best public hearings, uh, including the happy birthday song afterwards.

That was awesome.

Um loved it.

Yes.

So um I would like to just echo what Tara said about the trees.

I think it's it's it's incredibly important.

Um, with the increased density, there's a lot of pressure uh to use the available land and squeeze as much value out of it as possible.

Uh sometimes uh the things that don't have voices like trees get squeezed out.

So I think that's important.

Um you drive around the city, all of you who live here know how how important uh that is.

Um, I think there's a lot to be said about bioswales and natural ways of stormwater retention.

We're advocating for that.

Um, I think it can be easily integrated uh without a significant amount of cost into this.

Something worth considering uh as a trade-off.

Um I I do echo some of the concerns about parking.

I think uh again, getting rid of the the mandate doesn't say you can't do it, you still can.

I think the market will be smart about uh putting those things in where it's needed.

Um I do uh echo as well the uh the application to downtown stations.

Um I think that uh there more than anywhere else, we don't need to put in a minimum.

Uh smart development's gonna put that in where it's needed anyway.

So um I echo that uh sentiment as well.

And thank you again very much.

Appreciate it.

Next two speakers are Garrett Mark and John Potts.

Please go to an open podium, state your name, address, or cross street for the record.

You'll have three minutes to address city council.

Hello everybody.

Um I just wanted to well, Garrett Marple 4021 30th Avenue North.

Almost forgot.

Sorry about that.

Um, just wanted to thank you guys for all the support in the first hearing, and to thank Derek as well for all the hard work that's been put into this.

Um, this has been a long time coming.

And it's finally here, and I'm just I'm really really excited about this opportunity to change our city to make it more walkable and less car oriented.

Um, but I really really strongly encourage that we include all of the downtown stations in this.

I mean, it makes no sense not to.

Um, why how are we going to create these parking reforms in the more suburban areas of the city, but not bring them to the area of the city with the highest potential for housing development and also the most walkability already.

I mean, it just makes sense, and so um I think it's a no-brainer, and um I really really strongly encourage you guys to include this.

Let's not like wait and then do this three years down the road after like studying it again.

Like we're all really tired of studies.

Like we don't want to wait, we want it to happen now.

Like while we have the opportunity.

Also, just want to say for future uh stuff like this.

Like, I really hope this is just the beginning of zoning reform in the city.

Like there are so many corridors that are screaming for redevelopment.

Um, so I hope this is just the start, and I hope to see you guys again here six months or a year from now to do this again with another corridor because there are half a dozen or a dozen I could think of that could really use it to encourage more people to walk.

So thank you guys.

It's John Potts, 2836, Seventh Avenue North.

I live in Kenwood.

I'm not near this area that we're talking about.

However, I do feel for the people who I have neighbors with, and the reality is the people that move here bring a car.

We all talk about what we wish could happen, we can make it walkable.

We are putting a round peg through a square hole here.

And the people that bring their car are gonna move, put that car somewhere outside of where they live if they don't have a place to park.

If they put it in Kenwood, it already doesn't have enough parking for the people that are there.

So the people that are there get impacted by somebody who isn't even here yet.

And that's the part that I don't hear anybody addressing, and all we ever talk about, it seems like is we've checked the boxes, we've checked the boxes, we have guidelines, we have suggestions, we have all this stuff, which seems to just fall by the wayside, as it has with other projects.

Sometimes we get our way, but a lot of times it seems like the voice of the public, I'm all for giving more housing to people that need it.

We talk about affordable housing and all that.

The reality is the developer comes in here and says, How much money can I make?

Can I not put parking garages in?

And he, oh, I can have this many more apartments or this many more condos and make that much more.

That's what's gonna happen.

What happens to the area around it?

Doesn't matter.

He's from Miami, he's from wherever, and he's gone.

And then the people that are already living here say, it used to be really nice.

Now I come home from work, I can't get a parking spot within two blocks of my own house.

So that goes over to the next couple streets, and it just keeps happening over and over and over.

And you can see it in old Northeast.