The call to order the agenda review meeting of February 24th, 2026.

Clerk, please call the role.

Hobbs.

Jones here.

Come Ives.

Kramer here.

Martinez.

Present.

McPherson.

Meldon.

Morris here.

Sarantu?

Here.

Williams.

Driscoll.

Gadis.

Seven present.

I'm the one who comes from the Department of Housing and Community Development.

Good afternoon, members of Council.

My name is Rosalind Clemens, the Chief of Housing and Neighborhood Sustainability.

I'm joined today by Colina Ali, who is the deputy director of the Department of Housing and Community Development.

Deputy Director will present this this ordinance, and I'll just be here to support her and help answer some of your questions.

Good afternoon.

Council President Williams and members of Council, thank you for the opportunity to present this ordinance.

My name is Colleen Alley, Deputy Director of the Department of Housing and Community Development.

And this ordinance is to authorize the mayor to submit a substantial amendment to the Home ARP allocation plan to the U.S.

Department of Housing and Urban Development, which is HUD.

This was submitted in December 2022 and it was approved by the HUD Field Office in 23.

And so this amendment will establish a preference for supportive services funding for qualified populations QP1, which is homeless.

And I will be providing a documentation handout to explain the various qualifying populations.

Home ARP is a one-time federal allocation that we received of over $7.9 million to the City of Toledo, and it was designed to address homelessness and housing instability, and it can be used for affordable rental housing, tenant-based rental assistance, supportive services, non-congregate shelter, admin planning, and thank you.

It is specifically target for those qualifying populations, which is QP1, homeless, QP2 at risk of homelessness, QP3, fleeing or attempting to flee, domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, or human trafficking.

And then the last QP, which is other populations where supportive services or assist assistance would prevent the family's homelessness.

And so what this legislation would do, a home art plan was developed and provided to HUD outlining how the $7.9 million dollar funding would be used.

The plan was approved by HUD.

However, the plan did not establish a preference.

Also, we have heard that many of the shelters within Toledo and also the Lucas County area continuum care have been operating at near or at capacity for several months, and that's including in the summertime, which if you're familiar with that, that is that is really out of line with what you see in the summertime.

So this legislation is a response to increased homelessness, shelter system strain, and the need to direct limited federal resources to the highest acuity housing needs.

All four of the home ARP qualifying populations will remain eligible to apply for the city's home ARP rental housing projects, which will not use a preference.

And when we talk about the rental housing projects, we're talking about those projects that we're investing in so that they can build or do a substantial rehab or a major rehab to the building, basically new housing.

This is just a supportive services.

Aside from additional supportive service preferences, all other components of the City of Toledo's home ARP allocation plan will remain unchanged.

The draft of the substantial amendment to the home ARP allocation plan is attached as Schedule A.

Schedule B provides a home ARP grant budget.

The home ARP funds expire September 30th, 2030.

This substantial amendment will improve housing stability for the most vulnerable residents, strengthen neighborhood stability, and ensure responsible use of federal funds.

There are no additional cost increase.

This amendment will reallocate prioritization within the existing federal home ARP funds.

And there will be referrals to other supportive services such as mental health if that is needed for that individual.

We intend to deploy this with two agencies out there in the community, Pathway Inc., which is our local community action agency, and also the Health Council of Northwest Ohio.

And there will be an online application portal for those to apply for these services, and there will be a maximum of $20,000 limit per QP household.

Okay.

HUD does require a public comment period and public hearing for the substantial amendment.

The public comment period was January 26th through February 9th.

A public hearing was held on February 11th here in Council Chambers, and we will be asking for SEP so this could be submitted to HUD for approval.

And I entertain any questions.

Councilmember Gaddis.

Thank you, Chair.

Do we get this in one lump sum or is this a certain amount allocated yearly?

We have we have received the funding.

Okay.

We have received the funds as well.

And then how many projected people do you think this will help?

Well, we have allocated approximately three million dollars for supportive services, and at that maximum, um it will be about I believe it was 60, 61 individuals that could be assisted with this program.

And then what is our timeline for getting uh residents that help it?

I mean, I I I hear the heaviness.

I I it's a really important topic in the community of how many people are really struggling to need this support.

So what would that timeline look like?

Yeah.

Um, what this will entail is first the passage of this here with City Council, then the plan will be submitted to HUD for their approval.

Typically, it takes 30 days for their approval, um, but they are a bit behind due to some of the lack of staffing that they've had, and then also some of the closures they've had in the last few months.

Um, so we're thinking about another 30 to 60 days before we would be able to deploy this program.

Okay.

That's not perfect, but relief is coming right.

That hope, that glimmer of hope.

Thank you.

Thank you for all your work.

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to recognize that Council President Williams, Councilwoman McPherson and Councilman Colmaz have uh joined us.

Um Councilman Sarantsu.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I just want to clarify.

So the difference here is that we're actually identifying people that um are victims of domestic violence, uh, dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, or human trafficking, and in the past we haven't had that designation from HUD.

Um if I may answer this uh council member serant to the the home ARP funding specifically requires us to focus on uh the four qualifying populations as defined here in the slides.

QP is for one homeless folks, QP at risk of homeless, uh Q3 fleeing or attempting to flee domestic violence and Q4 of the other populations.

When we did our plan, as Deputy Director said, we said that we would focus on all four of these qualified populations.

We would focus supportive services, three million dollars and then rental housing on all four of these QPs.

As as over the last couple of years, since the plan was approved, we've seen an uptick in homelessness in the city.

So therefore, instead of spreading that money over all four of these QPs, we think the data and the problem solving that we're doing shows that indeed, as homelessness has increased, we need to focus those services on that QP1.

Right.

Not that we are saying we may not help anybody who is a victim of domestic violence or human trafficking.

We're saying that we will establish a preference for the homeless while still focusing on other folks as needed.

But if let's say we get 20 people and uh you know we want to hone in those services on those those homeless families and and and still you know serve the the other populations, but just establish that preference.

And in order to identify and establish that preference, we have to amend our plan and provide documentation that indeed you've seen an uptick in homelessness and that the preference supports what's happening in your community.

Good.

Because there really is a need for those categories, people.

There's a need for all four of the categories.

We're just saying as a city, since the plan was adopted, based on the trends that we're seeing, we're gonna we're gonna hone those services on homeless individuals and I'm glad to see that.

Um I'm sorry, I didn't hear how many people do you think potentially that 7.9 million uh will enable us to serve?

Do we have any idea?

Yeah, it'll be three million because if you look at Schedule B, and it wasn't attached in here, or it it should be attached, but it isn't on one of the slides.

Um part of that, only three million is going for supportive services.

And that's the part we're talking about.

That is where we're creating the preference for supportive services only.

Okay.

So three million would be allocated for that, and as approximately about six sixty people or so.

Okay, great.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Council Woman Morris.

Thank you, Chair Hobbes.

Thank you, ladies, uh, for giving us this briefing.

Um I guess my question is really um since we've had a lot of issues with warming sh uh shelters and cooling shelters, specifically warming with the with the winter and with uh the way that our weather patterns uh seem to be going.

I think we're going to continue to see these fluctuations in our temperatures.

And so I'm curious to see, since it would be dealing with QP1, is that something that we could um I know that we're always struggling to try and find funding for this.

This seems like it would be in a very adequate way of dealing with that, you know, trying to find that fund.

So is this something that you're looking at?

Um the statutory requirements of the home are program is for exclude non-congregate shelters.

Exclude congregate shelters.

So we we we we can spend it on supportive services, we can spend it on rental housing, long-term rental housing, but the funding does not allow us to focus on on shelters.

It's a it's a pot of money that specifically limits our ability to do that.

And even with temporary, because I mean these aren't something that we're doing on a regular basis, but as an emergency situation.

So you know, even if we had it at you know, at a church or or what have you, it's not necessarily always a shelter, right?

Well, anything that is constitutes a a shelter per se, where you're bringing people together on a temporary basis.

I guess the purpose of the intention of the funding was to provide um permanent rental solutions and while also providing supportive services for these for these QP.

So I think uh you're right, while the need for temporary shelters is increasing, this particular part of money prohibits us from using it.

And obviously the challenge of where do we look, whether it's ESG or maybe some CBG dollars, we're trying to do that, but for this part we can't spend it on shelters.

Okay.

Thank you for the clarification.

Uh McPherson.

Thank you, Councilman Hobbes.

Um, thank you for going after this federal allocation.

This is great.

My question is with our homelessness increase with our students.

Um, how can we assist or is there data where you can find out so that we can utilize some of these fundings to assist students that are homeless?

Um the potential for assisting homeless exists because homeless students would be in this QP1 population.

The way how this envisions is envisioned to work, we are going to have two main providers, pathways and hospital council that will be helping us to vet applications for this resource for this particular program.

We will we will open this the portal up, and we're hoping that homeless service providers will be will, if you're if you're examples, for example, if you're a Lutheran Social Services and you're working with a cohort of uh families at TPS that have need for supportive services, you would then go into this portal and apply on behalf of the clients.

So whether you are a TPS homeless family or whether you're just a single mom or a couple that is homeless, you you would be able to apply to this portal and or apply through pathways or hospital council to get the supportive services that you you would need as as uh Ms.

Ali defined, which would be uh rental application fees, security deposits, intensive case management and and and whatnot, those are uh a separate uh specific menu of supportive services for the homeless as this program would provide.

So will this this funding then um like finding uh places because you said rental support and that kind of thing, um rental assistance.

So are they also assisting in finding affordable housing?

Yes, that is part of the case.

That's part of the start of the intensive case management.

Okay.

So hospital council, for instance, has has a pipeline of folks that they're helping, and that some of them meet this QP population, and that that population or that cohort would need help with finding an apartment, need help with um getting medical referrals, need help with security deposits.

So the the goal is that they would then be vetting applications, deploying them to these services that this program provides, but within that preference of homeless individuals and families.

Okay, so would this be also be available to those um families that are in the temporary shelters like family house?

Definitely.

Okay.

And if I may add, um, home ARP is is very stringent.

This is probably one of the most difficult grants that I've seen to implement and to work through.

It is completely different than the rental assistant program that we had through the U.S.

Treasury.

Um that one was very focused on rental arrears.

This is very, I say forward-looking, being able to pay rent.

Um, it's stringent, meaning we can only use these QPs that have been identified because that is the legislation or the statutory requirements from the HUD perspective.

Um, but from our perspective, we are trying to be as creative as possible, which unfortunately wouldn't include warming centers and some of those other things.

But when you ask about TPS and when you ask about family house, yes, they first of all will be eligible for this services.

But one of the things before we actually roll this out is working with those agencies to make sure that they are fully aware of the of this program, what it covers, what it entails, and how they can assist the people that they're already working with so that when we open this up, and I'm just making up a day now, May 1, they already know who needs assistance and they're ready to get that information into that portal so that they can um you know receive the assistance.

Okay, so how do we get this to those that are living in cars that are not hooked to a system?

How would they know that this is something that is available to them?

Um, but they're not they're not engaged in going to any of the facilities.

They have kind of shunned some of the opportunities because of being turned away and they're just basically um living in their cars.

How do we get them?

Because this is a great opportunity for them.

How do we get that information to those?

Right.

Well, first of all, we're blanketing it everywhere when we're ready to open it up.

Um and then also when I mentioned working with family hospital, we'll also be working with NPI who has a path team that goes out who does you know reaches to encampments and people in cars.

We'll also be working with the Toledo Lucas County Homeless Board Um to make sure that we're getting this information out to people that we don't even know how to touch them.

Exactly.

So yeah, we have taken that into consideration to make sure we can touch as many people as possible.

The libraries will be very well aware of it because while they are in their vehicle, as you mentioned, they're often also at the libraries because that's a warm place to be in the middle of the day.

So all this information will be blanketed out there in the community.

Thank you.

This is a great opportunity, and this is so much needed here at this time, and I'm just grateful that you guys are working so diligently to help our community.

So I I want to say a heartfelt thank you.

And um, this is only the beginning.

Thank you so very much.

Thank you.

Um we have until 2030 to spend this money, and we anticipate that it will go very, very quickly.

And uh, you know, as Deputy Director Alley says, our our vision is that our main pro access to the portal will be those agencies that serve the homeless populations like NPI.

We're not looking for, we're not anticipating that a family that's living in their cars will be able to go to this portal and apply.

We're anticipating that the NPIs of the world, the different folks that serve these types of populations will be the folks that we are going to be engaging with and that are going to be working with us to move this to move this funding.

Councilman Saratsu.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I I want to go back to the amount.

I'm having trouble understanding this.

We're receiving from uh home are 7.9 million.

But Deputy Director, you said that 3 million would be used for this uh purpose in the ordinance.

What happens to the other 3.9 uh or 4 million dollars?

So part of it is used for administrative planning, meaning that for staff that operates the home art program and also to hospital council and pathways part of their admin fees too.

But the remaining portion of it is used for the rental housing that we were talking about, so for to either build or rehab some projects, and we already have some projects in line.

So that means we're increasing the number of housing availability for this population, the the QP population.

So it will be used for development, in other words.

Okay, so three million strictly for the the situations that's identified in the ordinance.

The other is administrative and other things.

I mean, I would assume we're gonna use this money up in just one year just because of the needs.

Okay.

Unfortunately, that's real.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Councilman Martinez.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just to um piggyback on my colleagues uh question, by way of referral, can we get a breakdown on the percentage of the use?

Uh I'll do officially a referral for that.

Um and then I guess the other part of this is how many um either programs or institutions or applicants are we expecting to fund to actually disseminate this these dollars?

Is it gonna go up for open for referral?

Is it gonna be I'm sorry, not open referral, open uh application for other organizations to compete against, or how is this gonna work?

That the actual programming of this.

Okay.

And so while we keep mentioning hospital council, I'm sorry, uh health council, because they've changed your name recently, and pathway, they are the conduit in terms of reviewing the applications.

Um so they will review it and say, okay, they have all the documentation that is required by HUD to say that they are eligible for the program.

So that is their role.

They're kind of a conduit for this.

As far as so that competition has already been done closed, and these are the selected entities that were.

So there's two organizations that's gonna disseminate almost three and a half million dollars.

Yes.

However, you guys decide it.

Okay.

Yes.

Yes.

And it's pathways and the who?

Health Council of Northwest Ohio.

Health Council of Northwest Ohio.

Formerly hospital council.

Okay, and then I guess I don't know enough about them, but oh okay.

All right, thank you for the clarity.

That's it.

Thank you.

Okay.

And and I just want to add that before we picked these two organizations, we had a notice of funding opportunity that we can certainly share with you.

We had a notice of funding opportunity that described the program that described the available funding that described what types of organizations and services that we were looking for for both Redal Housing and for both supportive services.

And those organizations or projects were picked by a committee based on the NOFO that was that was issued.

So there was a process that arrived at the different funding line items that what we're going to be using that for.

And we'll be happy to share that with you.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Oh, great.

Thank you.

So out of curiosity, so pathways I'm familiar with are from Toledo-based organization.

And then the hospitals council.

Are they out of Toledo based?

Okay, so it's all local organizations that is going to be okay.

Great.

Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

If I may, um, and we will provide this by referral.

But Schedule B, um, which is a part of this ordinance is the breakdown allocation that Councilman Sorantsu was asking for.

We're looking at $3,047 for supportive services, which would entail what we're talking about today, what we're discussing.

Uh $3,721,66 uh 46,047 cents will be for development affordable rental housing.

And then when it comes to administrative and planning, $1,186,384 and 84 cents.

Um but we will provide that information to you all through referral, and it is part of Schedule B of this ordinance.

Thank you.

I did have a couple questions before that.

Um I'm glad that you did mention um the schedule B because that was going to be my question as far as what is the breakdown of these particular supportive services, like is there a certain percentage for the rental assistance, certain percentage for the intensive case management.

Um I did request that I think I sent an email yesterday requesting just a little bit more information so we can alleviate a lot of the preliminary questions.

Um but I'm glad that you do you did have that available.

And as far as um, did you mention how many families or individuals this would help?

We're estimating about sixty.

About sixty, okay, and it's through those two organizations.

Okay, okay.

Um I'll definitely uh write a referral for that as well, but we can do SEP.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Items two through five are from the Department of Public Utilities and the Department of Human Resources come up at this time.

Um good afternoon, Doug Stevens, director for uh public works.

I'll present items two, three, and five, and Commissioner Cindy Geronimo will um present item number four.

Um item number two is an ordinance that authorizes the mayor to accept bids um for a new autoclave.

We have a budget of this of about a hundred thousand dollars.

An autoclave is a machine that um sanitizes um equipment and ensures that anything we dispose of after doing bacteria testing is um safe to be disposed of.

Um every uh lab is required to have one by the EPA.

Um having this piece of equipment actually saves us about $7,500 a month in testing over going to an outside firm, and it actually keeps the amount of time that we have to um submit or or we have to um have boiled advisories out for down by 24 to 48 hours as opposed to sending lime samples to a I'm sorry, as opposed to sending water samples to a private um company to sample for us.

Um I can take any questions and would request SCP Chair Martinez, what is your um recommendation?

Uh I was gonna make a joke about washing them by hand, but considering the uh the amount of savings you're gonna have, we're gonna SCP is fine.

Um item number three um is an ordinance that would um allow for us to um go into a 40,000 dollar per year as needed contract um with a uh provider who does specific work on our spent lime um dewatering pre-tank mixer.

This mixer actually keeps the solids content of the spent Lime at the proper levels so that when we do our large two presses that we have, we have two large plate presses that will press the the spent lime together.

Again, we do about 250,000 gallons a day, and it takes the solids content from about four to five percent to somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 percent.

So it goes from kind of a soup to a clay, and then that gets trucked off that can be used at farm fields or other locations.

So this is about 20 percent of our total spent Lyme.

Uh we've been operating this facility for several years now, but we have to have this mixer with continual um maintenance, and then uh without it, we can't really operate the facility properly, so any repairs we would would want to be able to have this um contractor come in and do that work.

Uh with that, I request SCP and take any questions.

Thank you, uh Chair Hobbs.

Um Director, what what is the location of the spent line facility?

It's at the water treatment plant.

I just it it would be almost the first thing you see when you kind of come through the gate off York.

Right.

And then uh Buckeye Pumps is the name of the company that's doing this.

Um yes, it's their um it's their uh regional maintenance group or the the contractor that's approved to work on their specialized equipment, yes.

Okay.

Is that are they uh part of the Charles Stanley group that we had at Burning Angola?

Uh no, this this actually is all a hundred percent an in-house operation.

Um it doesn't have anything to do with who hauls away Lyme or anything of that nature.

Great.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Cost of Gaddis.

Thanks, Chair.

Have we used the this company before?

Um that I would have to take by referral.

I think we have um you know, in the past to do any maintenance or repair that we needed on this, but I'd like to confirm that by referral, please.

Okay.

Chair Martinez, what is your recommendation, please?

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh quick question.

Does this have like any type of um warranty or service time frame uh associated with it?

There is just specifically for a straight acquisition of the pro of the equipment.

Um no, this is this is just going to be uh for any type of of repair or maintenance we do.

We're we're really kind of out of warranty period on it, but you know, this is just something that will be ongoing, you know, throughout the life cycle of this mixer is to have someone who can come in authorized from the manufacturer to do this type of work.

Okay.

And then I'm sorry, how long was this contract for?

Um we had it for I believe uh one year with three additional one-year renewals.

Okay.

Uh SCP.

Right.

Good afternoon, counsel.

I'm Cindy Geronimo, uh Commissioner of Utilities Administration, and I'm here to present an ordinance that would fund our customer assistance program.

Uh this program offers 250 grants to our income eligible customers who are in need of assistance with their utility bill.

Uh they're eligible for this grant once every two years.

And we would need to authorize the appropriation of a hundred thousand from water, sewer, and storm, water replacement funds, and the operating transfer of SAEM to the water sewer storm water operating funds, authorizing the appropriation expenditure of a hundred thousand from the water sewer storm water operating funds for the customer assistance grants program.

I would be asking for SAP and I can take any questions that you may have.

Thanks, Chair.

I see that it says the same funding level as 2025.

How um uh how much have we used of our 2025 uh allocations?

So actually in 2025 we didn't allocate any for this.

Um we were well we allocated the money, but we didn't provide any grants.

Um we were utilizing other assistance that was available.

And we still are we still have a higher dunning level, so there hasn't been um the level of disconnections yet that um have driven people to request the grant.

And so every year we fund this in hopes that like we keep that money available.

Um it's used as a gap more.

250 dollars typically doesn't um provide the level of assistance some customers need.

Uh we'll use it in conjunction with um the veterans administration and salvation army, if there's any funds there.

Um, we try to leverage what we can.

Oftentimes it's used to help with getting somebody into an installment plan and then just kind of working with them on that.

Yeah, I know it was a there was a big push that uh councilman Martinez and Councilman Serrantu and I passed the legislation.

We worked with with Doug to pass the legislation, and so it's really alarming that we didn't use that money last year.

Um I think that um every year, like I said, we fund it every year, and we um really kind of provide the information, you know, outreach to customers and let them know that it's there, and we just work with them on the level of assistance they need.

I think it's just that we haven't um you know turned off at the level yet that I mean we were starting to just get back to regular operations.

We implemented a new billing system last year, and we were building that out or the year before in 2024, and we were working through some changes with that last year.

But it's not that it hasn't been available, and we do and we now are funding this, and we do have a waiting list right now of 20 people who are eligible, and we can provide them that grant assistance immediately once this is passed.

But they have the funding from last year, correct?

They could have used that.

So every year um what happens is the funding just automatically gets put back into the um it gets it's automatically placed back into the operating out of the operating into the is it the when so it because it's operating money kind of like general fund money, if we don't use it in that year, it goes back to the fund to be reappropriated next year.

So it's not it's not carry over money um in the operating budget.

So 100,000 this year, use everything you can, return it to fund balance and reappropriate it in the next year is the way the funding source works for this one because it's not a capital project that carries contract with it.

Uh uh, does this um legislation does this ordinance have any reporting mechanism to council?

Um we could provide reports on this.

I'll make sure to amend it.

That that is I'm livid right now that there are people in my district that need this help, and and councilman Martinez and Saranto and I um requested to do that, did that for the community, and it was not um distributed.

So I will make sure that's amended and that we get updates because uh water is important.

No, and and we know that and it absolutely, I mean, we we do everything we can to make sure that we're meeting people where they are and making sure that you know if they need assistance with their bill, we're piecing together all the help that's available.

You know, uh when LIWAP was available, we leveraged 2.7 million dollars of that money.

Um, you know, that and we offered we were one of the first uh utilities to offer debt forgiveness, and that was a two year two-year program.

We ended up forgiving about $750,000.

So thank you.

Councilwoman, we can we know we've been reporting on collections um at the finance committee at Councilman Sarantu's request, and we can we can turn this piece into something that's part of that same reporting so we can we can make sure that there's a monthly reporting on that councilwoman uh Dr.

Jones.

Thank you, Chair.

Um the going off of my fellow council members' um comments by referral, or do you have these numbers?

What was the outcome of last year as far as how much money was allocated, how much you still had left over that rolled back?

Do you have those numbers now?

Yes.

So we did we allocated 100,000, but we didn't have like we had a list of of I think there was like 12 people, and we didn't find that they were uh income eligible.

So you only had 12 people last year?

And they sold no money was used?

No.

Oh, so then it just wrote back.

Okay.

So what is the promotion mechanism for this?

So it is on our website, and it is um it is promoted through our website, it's promoted through our customer portal, it's promoted through our promise link.

And so and it does work where like, for example, if you go through our promise link, it asks you a number of questions like your household income, it'll ask if you're a veteran, it'll ask um how many people in your household, and then it will flag you for the things that you're eligible for, and then it'll tell you what the next step is for each one of those things.

So some people may opt to go with like maybe they're a veteran, the veterans have been very good at helping with utility bills, or um it could be you know that we have other type of assistance, or we're giving, you know, we add the discounts into it it qualifies them for the low income discount that we just added, and then also the low income senior discount, and there's a low there's a senior discount and a low income senior discount.

Okay.

And yeah, I'm just kind of stuck on it's only 12 people that had requested for last year.

So no funding was made, even though this was allocated and coming back again for a hundred thousand.

So I just want to know what is the promotion with that.

And then you mentioned it was kind of like gap funding as well.

And it is too like now that we you know, we we went through a whole complete upgrade of our system and we really had to like um just make sure that we could do all these programs through the system and everything worked.

And so this last year, like we we implemented the system at the end of 24.

We spent 25 making sure everything worked, and then you know, now we're just trying to make sure everybody's aware that this assistance is available and promoting that as much as we can.

And you know, we can do more via social media and I was even gonna say like just postcards are kind of how we do for summer programming and things like just more tangible items to send out to maybe qualified households that well with the water bill, you know, that definitely, yeah.

I will say too that like um it does it requires a disconnection notice and like our dunning level is still kind of high right now, so it may not be the masses have realized have gotten that level of like, oh, we're you know, you'll be turned off.

It isn't till we kind of put that pressure on that you kind of see the traffic starting, you know, the traffic for the assistance and the traffic for the installment plans.

I mean, I would say even if you have to do it twice, like those who may have missed a couple payments and then send that notification and then when they're on a threat of disconnection, send that notification because I like I said, I'm just 12 people, but you said you have 20 on the waiting list right now?

That are fully qualified.

But we can have that credit too.

And like I said, the more pressure we start, like as we start bringing dunning down and we reach um more people, then I think and then they have the disconnection notice, then that's when you start seeing the traffic back to you know these type of uh assistance programs.

So do you have any um formula or metric to kind of predict if people or how close they are to that disconnect to when you would notify them of this program?

So you have those who are being disconnected, but then there may be one or two payments that are about to be disconnected, and there's really no way that they are gonna pay up.

Like, do you have that sort of trigger in your system?

So in our system, we have different levels of what we call dunning, it's different triggers that that go on in the billing system.

So at let's say level 10, you're gonna get a notice that you're late.

Um by the time you get to level 30, you get a say you get a letter that says, hey, you're behind, you are subject to disconnection, and then at level 40, you finally get a disconnection notice.

Um and so typically that's when we have said, okay, you've gotten a disconnection notice.

Now you're eligible for um, you know, this 250 dollar grant.

So um I think one of the things that we need to look at is you know, going back and getting with the comms group and and coming up with a little more of a robust plan on how we can get that out there.

Some of it is dependent upon us to um start issuing more disconnect notices, and we have done that pretty well on the commercial side to date.

Um, you know, and our dollar value on where we're going after people for being behind is higher.

So somebody who owes, you know, six hundred dollars, they're not close to disconnection yet because we're going after people with higher balances.

So you know the plan is to work the way down through um the uh you know the people who are owe the higher balances before we get to lower.

So um it's I think it's something we're gonna have to take back and do a real reexamining of and see how we can market that better.

And again, this year we intend to um make that push on the residential side, you know, we're trying to do it humanely, but um, we're that push on our end to send those notices to people that say, hey, and you know, the next two weeks, you're gonna or ten days, you're gonna be disconnected.

Um that's that's gonna be a trigger for those people.

So this is you mostly have adequate data for commercial.

We have adequate adequate data for the residential, but you know, going through the process and starting to en masse do the residential um hangars to turn people off has not yet been initiated.

Because I would see this more of residential focused, and instead of introducing this program to them when they're disconnected, about to be disconnected, it would help to get that notice way before then because probably by the time they get to disconnection, their bill, they probably can't pay it at all.

And this 250 will not cover really a lot.

And I'll have to look that may be by code that requires the disconnection.

Um so we'll let's take a look at that and examine that policy to make sure that you know what whatever we do is code compliant, or if we need to come back and have counsel consider different code, we could.

Okay.

I I've still put I'll still put in a referral as far as just asking about the promotion um campaign that you're you have planning because I mean this is important um, especially with utility assistance programs hardly available right now, and this is something that it seems like people really don't know about until is that final moment, and that should definitely be changed at that point.

So I'll put in a referral, but um yeah, I definitely think you should talk with Markoms about that.

And we can definitely put it on the bill itself, because we have to that will help too.

Even though they're not getting the disconnection notice, they are getting that the bill is overdue.

So coming every month, they'll get a notice on their past due.

I think that'll be a very good idea too.

When they get that past due, you know, just have it it's just more of that awareness, and so they can take advantage of it instead of being at the end, and the bill is probably like four hundred dollars at that point because they weren't able to pay or they bid ignoring it any sort of reasons could happen because like I said, with 250 dollars by the time they reach that disconnection notice, that could be even more unaffordable for them for the residential side.

Commercial side build this if we build this customer assistance program together with council on the task force.

Um I will say that you know we we have built a very good program collectively.

We have we had debt forgiveness, you know, we have the low income discount, like I said that was new, the senior discount, and the 250 dollar cap program.

And we meet with our partners in the community once every quarter just to make sure we're talking collectively about what's available.

So unfortunately, because there hasn't been that big drive yet, we haven't seen that, but we're ready for to meet people where they are to make sure that they have the help.

That's you know, we we are committed to making sure that we provide the assistance that's necessary for people.

Yeah, and I was even saying just the community meetings that some of my colleagues attend, we can take either QR codes or any sort of promotional material for that just to help out with that too.

So um, yeah, so I I'll just put in the referral, but thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair.

Casa Ms.

Ratsu.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um so at this point, do we have notices going out on the actual physical bill that they're passed due and what they who they can contact for assistance to rectify the past due payments?

We are doing that.

Yes.

That's in the bill.

Okay, because that's important.

Because we can talk about from uh you know, for the next 24 hours, social media, but a lot of people may not have access to social media.

Uh, you know, so we need to make sure that they get something in writing.

Now, as far as the tags on the door, I I strongly urge the department here to get these uh uh notifications on the doorknobs as soon as possible with with the with the residential because we still have at the last finance meeting uh you indicated director that about 10 million dollars have been collected, if I'm not mistaken.

That means we got 56 million dollars it's still owed.

And I I really sense that we just have not made the effort to go after the residential customers.

Um and we really need to.

We don't want to turn off anybody's water, but we have let this thing go on for years now.

And you know, the longer we wait, the less money we're gonna collect.

We know that it's a fact.

So I really would like to see in our March Finance meeting a report on how much you've collected and what efforts are we specifically making to go and notify residential customers, not just that they're behind, but we're taking action because I believe most people will pay that bill.

You know, if Edison cuts you off, they're not gonna wait around months and months and years and years.

Colombian gas is the same thing.

If if you don't pay after a couple of months, you're done.

So I think we really need to make this effort because I'm convinced people will uh come and pay.

And the important thing is, by the way, we've got a excellent payment plan, and we are really bending over to help people uh meet their obligation.

What I want out in the community is 95 and a half percent of the people are paying their bills, and four and a half percent are not, and I'm convinced that we just have not made a real strong effort.

Uh and I really I really want to see that and I at the March Finance meeting we will we're gonna ask about that and see what we're doing and see what we've collected and not just the commercial industrial accounts, we want to know what's going on with the residential accounts.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you, Councilman Hobbes.

I am um very disturbed that you have said that we you put money back that should have been used to assist people in paying their water bill, and knowing that over last year I and I'm sure other council members have received emails asking for assistance with their water bills, and you're saying we had money there, and only 12 people applied for it, and none of them were eligible for it, and we were not notified that you know what we got this hundred thousand dollars, y'all, and and we don't have people.

Uh can y'all help us?

Can y'all give us some names or uh can you announce it at your um neighborhood committee meeting, or could you announce it at your church, or you know, you know somebody, uh my neighbor that's got six kids that was having issues with her water bill.

Had I known this money was I would have shown off told her lack of communication is our biggest downfall because there are many people out here right now today that could have used that money to assist.

And I I know and I have to commend you guys for the programs I still with Councilman uh Comiz when we did the announcements of the different programs down at the Frederick Douglass Center and those people that had benefited from those programs.

We have people in the junction coalition, just in that neighborhood, I know there's 20 people probably that could have benefited from it.

But it's because of our lack of communication to our constituents, letting them know what is provided, what help is out there, we then put that money in, you're back asking for that money, and we didn't use it.

That's insulting.

And I am angry because I know people that needed this help.

And if you didn't use it, you should have told us and said, hey, we got this money, we need to use it.

And we could have helped you.

It should never happen again.

There are too many people in this city that are on the borderline of everything that need help.

That need help.

And here we have the money to help.

And didn't do it.

I'm holding you all accountable for that.

No excuses.

Thank you, Chair.

Do you keep data on the requests that come in?

Yes.

So you would be able to tell us then how many people requested this grant.

There's a spreadsheet that they they keep that on.

Okay, I'd like that by referral.

Because the reason that I was notified of it is because people in my district called and requested it, and they were told, oh, council didn't pass the legislation to fund this.

So that's when my colleagues got together with me and passed it.

And then I proceeded, which this is what makes me mad, because we're talking about notification.

I proceeded to tell the junction coalition, the Broadway Corridor Coalition, the one those three, believe me, district three knows about this program.

And those are the big ones.

Then I went to all of my little neighborhood organizations, and everyone was made aware of this program.

And I think our word is valuable.

And if I am out there preaching these programs, and then they are calling and not getting them.

I think that the trust between government and people that we work so hard to build will burn.

It's gone.

So I'm going to fill out a referral because I'd like to know how many people called and requested that grant.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

I just have one more question.

The um the income um requirement.

Is that law or is that something that you just came up with?

So for this program you have to do the 200%, or you can adjust that.

That that was set up when um oh I don't remember the name of the task force.

But um there was a task force that was commissioned to create our um affordability program, and out of that came came this level.

Came that level of recommendations, yes.

Okay.

If if that is flexible, I would definitely recommend trying to up that threshold.

Well not well, how would you say that?

To include more people, basically, um because of the affordability of things right now.

So if we can get more people that can fall within that um requirement, I think that will also be more helpful to this as well, and to just the residents as well.

Okay.

Thank you, Chair.

Councilman Martinez.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm a little speechless uh on this.

Um before I go into my diatribe uh about this, let me ask a maybe uh a different question that maybe hasn't been asked.

So uh of all of the individuals that did call on this program, they weren't qualified because they didn't meet the AMI threshold, right?

Or the property or the percentage threshold.

Listed on our website, you know, you have to have uh uh an account past due slash disconnection status.

Um you couldn't have received it within the last two years.

It's a single family residence.

Have to be a Toledo customer, have to meet that 200% guideline, poverty guideline, and then you also have to be you have to make required payments to your account is what's listed as the is the criteria.

Gotcha.

But what if they're renting a single family home with the landlord?

They have the tenant landlord form, then we're gonna do that.

But they may not have one of those in place.

So that would automatically disqualify them.

Yes.

So it's a paperwork issue on our end.

Yes.

They would have to get one in place.

Like in we can't.

So have we reached out to the landlord's associations or any of the investment groups to let them know about this?

Yes, we talk to them regularly to let them know that their um their tenants are eligible for any of our programs, as long as they have a tenant landlord form of it, you know, filled out, and they have to uh work with their tenant to get that filled out and signed.

Gotcha.

And then the program policies that we're referring to, is that administrative policy or is it done legislatively?

Yes, it's um we actually went through legislation when we established the program as to the criteria, and then revisit it as a council.

We can revisit it and we can change the criteria.

Okay, I will work with um my colleagues to review this to make some adjustments because this is absolutely unequivocally unacceptable.

We have this money for a reason.

It was the guiding principle when we did the rates increases, and this is how we made sure our most vulnerable population was secure, and we've failed at that ultimately, and there's no excuse over that.

Um we're gonna do first read on this.

Um hundred thousand dollars.

Um, and maybe this is a readjustment and re-roll out, and we'll look at this in six months once we have a program and planning and proper place to make sure not only do we have a good communication strategy, but we also identified our vulnerable population that would qualify so we can make sure that people are getting the resources they need.

So we'll do first read on this, thank you.

Thank you, Chair Martinez.

Um item number five um is a ordinance for $75,000 to cover our um our permit to discharge uh for our treatment process uh with the Ohio EPA.

Um this is an annual expense that we have to do.

Um we expect about a five percent increase um over last year for $75,000.

Last year was about $71,400.

Um with that, I can uh take any questions and request SEP.

Chair Martinez, what is your recommendation?

SCP.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Wait one second, one second, Councilwoman McCarns.

Thank you, Councilman Hotz.

Um, by referral, I'm going to ask um what is the process when there's a water main break.

What is the process of getting that taken care of?

And you know you are aware of what happened this weekend.

My problem with that is the neighbor in that neighborhood where that water main broke on Friday, flooded her yard, their yard.

I don't know who the people are, because I went over there and took pictures, flooded that yard.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Saturday night I was over there, and you know it was snowing and freezing, and that yard, because they don't have sidewalks and sewers, you know where that water was going.

The problem with that is we'll probably get a call from that resident because of flooding in their house in basement because there was not a crew to go out and take care of that.

These are our constituents that pay taxes that should be taken care of in a timely manner.

And I was again live it.

I had to call the deputy mayor at 10 30 at night about this.

And thank you for responding back the buttons a little late in getting that taken care of.

We've got to do better for our citizens.

That is again unacceptable.

And we need to do whatever it is to get these things taken care of in a timely manner.

Nobody, no resident should have to deal with that.

And then those in that neighborhood, because when a water main break happens, your water pressure is decreased because of that water main break.

So then the neighbors in that area, their water pressure.

So now we got other neighbors that's calling in to engage Toledo that they're upset because of their water pressure.

This is we've got to do better for our citizens.

And they are entrusting us with the uses of the tax dollars.

And then here we are, we can't get out on a decent in a decent and appropriate time to fix what's broke.

And in that home, their property, their damages.

And then not only do we have to fix the water main break, but now we've got to deal with property damages.

We've got to do better.

And so by referral, because I asked, oh, maybe a month ago to Todd when he was sitting there.

What is the protocol?

What is the steps when there's a water main break?

Call.

Do we send out a crew?

If a crew says they can't get out there, what do we do?

How do we tend to that?

Do we then reach out to sewers?

How do we do this in a timely manner?

That we don't have neighbors' yards flooding and freezing, and then costing us triple the money.

I will put that in referral.

Thank you.

Six and seven.

The Department of Human Resources and the Department of Development, you'll be up next.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mike Najelski, the Director of Human Resources for the City.

With me, I have Deputy Director Vicky Coleman and the health care point of contact for our employees, Carrie Arnold.

Item six and seven are uh two separate items uh relating to our health care program.

Um the first one uh six is is uh uh requesting to enter an agreement with Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield to provide third-party administrator services for our self-funded medical plan.

Uh Anthem is our current uh provider for this service, uh has been since 2022.

That contract with Anthem expires um June 1st of this year, so back in October of last year, uh we we put out an RFP uh for this service and um got three submissions or three responses to that RFP.

Uh the three companies were Anthem, which is the incumbent, as I said, as well as Medical Mutual of Ohio and United Healthcare.

Um we uh with the help of our uh Highland uh consultant team, and they're here as well, um help me if I stumble, but um with the help of the of the analysis of those uh uh three companies as well as presentations to uh our health care cost containment committee, um we um the recommendation, unanimous recommendation from the committee uh is to continue with Anthem as our um as our TPA for the next three years with an option for two one-year uh renewals.

Um it's estimated that the administrative cost with that uh with the new agreement will be about the same as it has been, and that's just a little shy of a million dollars a year.

Um with respect to that, we're we're uh number six, we're requesting SCP.

Um, and I can take questions, or I can go into the second ordinance, which is related as well, and then take questions on both, either way.

Council President Williams.

I actually have a question about both, so he can present the first one and come back to me.

Council um Councilman Sarantsu.

Thank you, uh Chair Hobbs.

Um I just had a quick question.

What was the price difference with the other two uh companies?

Uh it was pretty similar.

There really wasn't a whole lot of difference between the three in terms of administrative cost.

Now, of course, our our big cost with health care is because we're self-insured, just depending on the claims, but with respect to the three companies, they are about the same in terms of administrative.

Okay.

But uh Anthem obviously is a current uh TPA, and I assume you're pleased with the service, and you found them to be very cost effective and responsive.

Yes, and and um, you know, we're always looking as uh you know a variety of things, including member disruption, and so uh we and our customer service we with Anthem, we have uh we don't I mean we we have our employees are satisfied with that service.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, uh Chair Hobbes.

You could present your next one in the U.S.

And item seven, uh similarly um is requesting authorization to enter an agreement with um Carolon, which is a uh for pharmacy benefit management services or PBM.

Um company or our current provider, I should say, is Optim RX.

We've had Optim Rx since 2017.

Again, that contract expires um uh June 1st of this year, so again back in October, we also put out an RFP for these services.

We actually got 10 uh responses um with help from our highlight partners.

We uh had that um um that group because that's a pretty big uh amount of uh proposals.

We had it uh reduced to five finalists.

You'll see on the slide is optimum, which is the incumbent Carolon, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Anthem, also Medical Multure of Ohio, uh Prime Therapeutics and True RX.

Again, um we had some uh multiple analysis from HILIT to uh to review these proposals.

Ultimately we presented um uh two of the final two finalists to the um health care cost containment committee, and those two finalists were optimum and Carolon.

And uh again, it was it was a close call, um, but again, uh Carolon uh was uh the the unanimous recomm unanimous recommendation from the committee.

Uh Caroline is uh is ho uh like I said, a wholly owned subsidiary of Anthem.

So on the one hand, you know, you're we're concerned about uh member disruption from you know from a prescription uh point of view.

Uh but uh uh you know first of all we'll we we'll have three months to implement the new uh this the new um uh PBM and I think with the benefits of having integration between uh the same basically the same company doing both our medical and our pharmacy that outweighs um uh any potential disruption uh by changing providers.

Um I should point out that the cost again is about about what we pay now, um, which is about uh the admin cost about 190,000 per year.

Uh again, we're asking for a a three-year contract with two one year options, renewable uh uh optional renewals I should say, and uh requesting SCP.

Thank you, Consul President Williams.

Thank you, Chair Hobbs.

Just real quick um because I know uh I know I had this question and I want to just put it on the record for everyone because optimum has been around since 2017 and some of us are familiar with the process with that.

What uh what is Carolon willing to do will it overlap in anything?

You know how when you get your medicine, you gotta wait to a certain date to get the new medicine, or how are we going to combat the laps in or the crossover with optimum versus Carolon so that people don't um not get their medicine because I actually take two special e medicines for my uh for autoimmune disorder that I need that I cannot be without.

Um what is the uh how does that work?

And I know is more people out there with this situation.

That's a great question.

Um we are prepared for that, and what we really need people to do, and one of the things that I've asked is for Carolon to get me what our envelopes will look like, because they're going to start a mailing campaign, and somebody in that specific situation is yours, they're gonna mail you a letter saying we need you to reach out and contact us because their goal is to not have any laps and medications.

Um specialty medications are also very sensitive.

Um, a lot of times the delivery has to be timed appropriately.

They might require refrigerate refrigeration.

Um but even so, anybody that even out has an outstanding prior authorization for a medication, regardless of a specialty or not.

All of those prior authorizations are gonna come over from optimum.

Um so they'll bring all of that information over.

Um so there's gonna be a lot behind the scenes.

They promised me that tomorrow our implementation call, they're gonna have us hitting the ground running.

Um but a big part is gonna be that communication to employees and getting them to read the correspondence that's going out to them.

Okay.

Um so that that is a big thing because the prior off is the big issue that will be there.

And I know we need to get this timely, but that is something that is very important, especially if people are medicate medical need this medicine, and optimum has been around for so long and they we know how that works, and you know, the fear of change and I can invite them on a medicine.

So uh I appreciate that.

And then we'll be online, of course.

Hopefully, they have that already set up and everything.

All right.

The nice thing is is that through Carolon, you can actually you'll be able to access everything through the Sydney Health app.

Okay.

Um so you'll be able to go if you utilize the optimum in theory, everything should come across with Sydney.

And regarding the prior authorization process, one of the things that we're really looking forward to is this should help reduce any delays getting a prescription.

So one of the big examples would be is I'm suddenly diagnosed with diabetes and my doctor wants to put me on Ozempic which requires a prior authorization.

Doing this now having that partnership what will happen is Caroline will already see that Carrie's A1C qualifies her so there's not all of this back and forth with the doctor all behind the scenes within a matter of seconds the OZEP will be prescribed and available to the member.

Okay well I'm glad you've edited out Carrie I trust you.

If my medicine is not here on time I'm calling you.

Joking but I appreciate you this and I appreciate a lot of work that goes into this because I mean you have we have 3000 some employees and you know I know my health is very important to me and I just want to make sure we have all the information because this is time sensitive.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Burrus thank you chair.

Thank you for this briefing this is very important because healthcare is really the reason why a lot of people stay in their jobs and and look for employment.

You know saying with with having the PBM and the the medical at the same time if the medical says you can't you know then obviously then the pharmacy is probably not going to say you can get it.

So I that was just a a concern that I had um but uh and again I you don't have to answer it but it was something that I looked at was perhaps a conflict of interest.

Do you also look at denials?

Do you ever and and maybe this is for Highland is do you ever look at denials or how do you how do you look at optimum is it just the what do you look at I guess is really is it just the the price is it is it customer satisfaction like what are some of the touch points that you use when you're deciding um you know Carolon as opposed to optimum.

It was a lot of different things that you said um I think in the it was a very tough decision because as councilman Williams said we've been with optimum since 2017.

And really Carolon had to really sell that service to make us want to leave after nine years.

And I think they did that and a lot of the things that you touched on in in the end is that member experience and I think by having those two partnered our employees are really going to see a benefit there.

And I think it's going to help to minimize some of the different health care expenses and in the end we could see a little bit of a savings by having those two merged just from some of the timeliness and the the authorizations and things that happen behind the scenes where now they don't have to get a provider involved.

They can see what each other has going on and I think that's going to be well I can tell you from experience that I would be prescribed a uh a medicine and then perhaps try something else and then if I go back on that medicine I have to get a pre-authorization again.

And it was it was very frustrating and the the pharmacies who are already kind of slammed as it is anyway with some of the right aid closures and perhaps Walgreens and some of these other um you know location it does become troubling especially if you want to get your medicine you know timely especially if you're trying different medicines.

I do have one last question and who decides the formulary is it the PBM it is the PBM.

Although we're self-funded we do have options to make overrides do things like that but the more we do that we look at possibly stepping out of one of their formularies and if we do that we go to where it's going to cost us a lot more because we're going to go with our own formulary.

So they determine that formulary but there are a lot of different things so even there are times where they say this is not a covered medication but we have members that have gone through the process unfortunately it can be time consuming but if we're not going to cover X and there's a reason why and we can prove so sometimes somebody would try the alternatives and maybe they can't tolerate them.

And if that's the case then optimum and or Carolon will come in and they will pay for the medication whatever one was originally prescribed.

But unfortunately there does have to be some of those hoops I do think that again with the pharmacy being able to see the medical side of things hopefully those are minimized now.

Yeah I hope so because I know that my I have a neurologist and I have migraines and there's 11 medicines that that um a person can take for migraines and I can't take um nine of them.

And so and the one that I could take is off the formulary.

But it's just it's frustrating for the patient.

It's frustrating for the doctor who is medically prescribing this medicine for you.

Uh and so it it it it really is.

So I I guess my question is answered as far as the the formulary, and it's good to know that if there is a problem that we can come to you or um and and talk about some of these specific issues and trying to make them um a little bit more smoother.

So thank you.

Yes.

Migrains are ones that I I fear people calling me about that because usually it's when there's an issue like this.

One of the things that the PBMs are doing, though, is looking at reducing those prior authorizations, the frequency of, because people don't they just don't go away.

So usually now once you're getting approved for them, those prior authorizations will be far and few between.

So that's something that's come from all of that.

That would be helpful.

Like I said, because the pharmacies are just as frustrated, the doctors are frustrated, the patients are frustrated.

The only person that's not frustrated are the PBMs.

So my I just I don't pretend to be an expert in in any of this, so I I trust your professional recommendations.

My concern is that we are now buying into an ecosystem, so to speak for insurance.

So the medical TPA and the PBM, because they're wholly owned subsidiary, so they're ultimately the same.

Um in terms of creating competition to get lower pricing.

So I'm sure you guys went through you did your analysis and everything.

So I'm just concerned that once we're locked in, we're locked in.

Uh so how long is the the contract for uh requesting a contract with um uh each entity for uh three years.

Which is typical, which is what we usually work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

No, no, I I I get it.

Um and I'm not opposed to trying it, um, as long as we know we can walk away after the three-year contract and you know go to competitive bid again as you did this time.

Um I I just fear that as insurances get bigger and bigger and bigger, it's harder and harder and harder to get out of this ecosystem, if you will.

Um on the flip side of that, the less friction we have to the end user, and we get better prescription costs and medical, better medical treatment.

We have phenomenal insurance.

You know, I do this job for free just for the insurance, right?

So I mean we have really really you guys have done a really, really good job um uh of making sure that our employees are taken care of.

So I applaud you for that.

I I just as we think full you know into the future and as conglomerates get smaller and smaller, and you get bigger and bigger insurance companies, the opportunity to stay competitive dwindles.

So um I'm supportive of this, but I just want to at least make my concerns known.

So I appreciate that, yeah.

Thank you.

Councilman Saratsu.

Okay.

Thank you.

Just two quick questions.

Uh, how long is care run in business?

I I can I can find that out by way of referral or just let you know.

I I know that it it's it's they're not they're it's an established company.

Um it's not like they're brand new.

Just want to know how many years, you know.

I don't know.

Obviously, the anthem is reputable.

Did a good job.

I just want to know about them.

And then the second question is I assume we don't have to change pharmacies that those of us that use correct the pharmacy will be okay.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Chair Hobbs.

Councilman McPherson, what is your recommendation on six?

Uh thank you.

Thank you for your report.

Thank you for the work that you have been doing to get this done uh for the employees of the City of Toledo SCP.

Chair McPherson, what is your recommendation on number seven?

SCP.

Thank you.

Next Department of Development items eight and nine.

And the Department of Finance can come up for 10 through 14.

Thank you, Council Members.

Uh my name is Bob Kurtz.

I am the chief building official for the city.

And with me is Carl Kochenhauer, the building commissioner.

We are here today to discuss the proposed legislation to amend TMC 1315, which pertains to the Board of Building Appeals.

So the to uh the Toyota Board of Building Appeals is authorized by and gets their authority to hear building code appeals from the state board of building standards.

On September 30th of 2025, uh Senate Bill 6 was took effect, and in Senate Bill 6, there was language to add expedited building code appeal process.

So this gives us this gives an applicant the option of following the standard appeal process or to request an expedited appeal if time is critical for their project.

The standard appeal process can take up to 60 days.

With uh from the time the application is received, there's 30 days to hold a hearing, and then the board actually has 30 days to render a decision.

This new expedited appeal process from the time the application is submitted, the hearing has to take place within five business days.

Unless there is a continuation agreement between all parties, and the expedited appeal hearing can actually take place electronically via virtual meeting.

So this amendment would uh amend our current chapter 1315 to add this language to allow for the expedited building code appeals.

This amendment also would establish the fee.

So right now the standard fee is 150 dollars to apply for a variance for a building code appeal.

Uh the amendment raises that to 250 dollars, and the expedited appeal is 500.

This um the these fees um are pretty much in line with what the state charges for a building code appeal.

And uh, of course, there's no ongoing uh costs associated with this amendment.

And just to provide counsel with um a little background on the Board of Building Appeals, this is different than the Board of Zoning Appeals.

This board is made up of five members.

There's an attorney, an architect, a mechanical engineer, a structural engineer, and somebody from organized labor.

They're appointed and they serve five-year terms.

Our last Board of Building Appeals hearing was actually in November of 2024.

So these aren't things that typically should be needed often.

Our ultimate goal is building code compliance, and through working with the designers or the property owners when they have an issue and figuring out how to solve their issue while still meeting the requirements of the code, that is our ultimate goal.

So these an appeal with a variance from the building code is kind of a last-stitch effort, and it's usually based on unique circumstances with the building or the property that there's just nothing that we can do to bring it into compliance with the code.

We actually have one that we're probably going to get an application for next month, and this is this kind of explains the unique circumstances.

So it's a three-story building downtown.

They are looking to add an event center to the third floor, but in order to do so, they're gonna need a second means of egress.

There's nowhere in the building that they can physically add a second stair, so they're gonna have to add a stair on the outside of the building.

The building code requires any exterior stair to be 10 feet from a property line, but they can't.

So again, this this amendment is to add the expedited review process for the uh building code appeal, and also to establish the fees.

And I'd be more than happy to answer any questions.

Councilwoman got us.

Thanks.

So just for clarity, there is no public input in these meetings, strictly decision made by the five board members.

It is a decision by the five board members, but uh most likely a board uh board of building code appeals is the same as the board of zoning appeals, which would be a quasi-judicial hearing, I believe, which anybody can speak and anybody can object or support, but ultimately it would be up to the five board members.

How would notification work then to the public?

Unfortunately, the uh person that could answer that had to leave.

Um I know that typically uh mailings are sent.

Um some places they actually post a sign on property.

Um but uh there is notification for um anybody that would have interest in the property.

I can find that out and let you know.

I can out write a referral.

Thank you.

Um I appreciate your increase in fees.

Um how did you assess the fee?

Like how did you figure it out for those numbers?

Yes.

Basically, it was using what the state is charging.

Okay.

Do you know if this will fund whatever costs it takes to do the building code of appeals in full if we get a couple of these, or uh will there be a deficit in that?

No, these new fees will certainly cover the the costs, and of course, this isn't to generate revenue, so to speak, but it's to cover our costs.

The 150 um was too low.

Yep.

It was costing us money.

Right.

That's my biggest worry with the fees.

I've noticed that a lot of cities um instead of writing the fee number in the legislation, they are now turning to legislation that says a comprehensive collection of processing administration uh software, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Whatever, all of that into a fee so that it can be adjusted with inflation.

Because I feel like that's the one thing that holds us back in the code is we set one and then it's like, okay, now there's prices are uh so much higher now.

Do we have to fix everything?

Is there a way we can strategically think in the future to write our code so that we can be more flexible for you in the future?

So that's a great idea.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Councilman Martinez.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um so overall I'm pretty supportive of this.

Um I guess maybe just to kind of elaborate on my colleagues uh suggestion.

Um, but the uh fee is seems a little low.

Um so as a developer in Detroit, I know that economies are different, but um these seems a little bit low, maybe by based on square footage.

Um that may be something also to consider instead of just a flat fee.

Um I appreciate your willingness to do this because especially when you're in the middle of development project and you need something uh to be expedited because it could cost you funding or your time, which is literally money.

Um this is definitely helpful and much needed.

I think this will help uh ease the development process and and I guess in terms of public input, a lot of times these decisions are made by licensed professionals, right?

So there it's a board of has to be a licensed plumber or you know, a a um licensed building inspector or something like that.

So this isn't necessarily it it's more of an the nitty-gritty to code issues, not necessarily community benefit or community impact.

It could be, depending on what what what the request is.

So maybe there is an opportunity for the public to weigh in, but ultimately I I'm very comfortable with the building decisions being done by the professionals.

Um I'm very supportive of this and I I appreciate your willingness to to do something like this.

Um and we should think you know creatively about funding structure just because uh a lot of times I I think we have a number in our head that may not be the true cost of doing business.

So um so I I'm supportive of this, so thank you for doing this.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Morris.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for bringing this um to us.

You know, when I first got on council, one of the things that I first heard was that doing business within the city of Toledo was awful.

Um there was a lot of discussion back and forth on how we could you know bring more more business to the city.

And this certainly seems like uh we're moving in the right direction.

Certainly with our new um with our new uh plan director, um I I really envision these two things kind of working together.

Um, I think back uh to the time that we had the tornado in Point Place, and we had a Gary's automotive, and that they um did they had some issues with the with the types of building materials.

And had there been this kind of um expedited procedure, had there been a way to uh address these issues.

I mean that that company was out of business for so long and they were paying their their mechanics, you know, even though they were closed.

Um, and now that business is thriving and it is you know it it looks wonderful, and they are you know uh busier than ever.

So really this is a business friendly um procedure, I think, and um I'm excited that you're bringing this to uh us and certainly um keep in mind um those those prices.

We have to be mindful on all levels, whether it's fire inspections or whatever we offer.

Um we've had uh very stagnant fees for a long time, and um certainly we need to uh have a committee or somebody look at some of these and say, is this costing us money?

And it sounds like uh our current fee structure is.

So thank you for bringing this to us.

Thank you.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Um my questions are answered because they just kind of talked about what I was going to talk about.

Uh okay, one other one question, I guess.

Why did you shorten the appeals process from 30 to 60 days to five days?

That was what the state did.

State legislation.

So it's going according to the state.

Yes, Senate Bill 6.

Okay.

Thank you.

Sorry, I might have missed it.

Thank you.

Vice Chair McPherson, what is your recommendation?

SCP, and thank you for your work.

Thank you.

Item number nine, please.

Good afternoon, members of council.

Brandon Sellhorst, Chief Growth Officer.

Um joined here with um Paul Searing, General Counsel, presenting item number nine.

This ordinance authorizes the mayor to enter into a loan agreement with the Toledo Community Improvement Corporation.

For context, the TCIC is a 501c3 nonprofit corporation created by the city in 2014 and formally designated as the city's development agency for job creation and private investment.

It is governed by a nine-member board of directors appointed by the mayor and confirmed by council.

In my capacity as Chief Growth Officer, I serve as the executive director of the TCIC.

This item is a companion to agenda item number 10, which Director Campbell will present next, which authorizes the issuance of up to 18.7 million in economic development, non-tax revenue bonds with a 30-year term.

If approved, this ordinance authorizes the city to loan those bond proceeds to the TCIC to capitalize a shovel ready sites fund.

The fund is to strategically and proactively acquire, assemble, remediate, and prepare sites for future job creating projects and housing developments throughout Toledo.

The city's bond proceeds are restricted to these eligible site readiness activities.

These projects are critical to growing our tax base and our overall revenue.

Today, projects required assemble sites with clean title, completed demolition, environmental remediation addressed, proper zoning and utilities ready for service.

Without that preparation, we are often unable to compete.

This fund will position Toledo to compete proactively rather than reactively.

All property acquisitions will work will require TCIC board approval and will be evaluated under formal underwriting criteria focused on job creation, housing production, leverage of private investment, and return of capital.

The fund is designed to revolve, meaning that as sites are sold or developed, proceeds can be recycled back into the fund for future opportunities, which will create a long-term competitive asset for the city.

From a fiscal perspective, this proposal is structured to be budget neutral to the city.

The TCIC will repay the loan to the city using revenue it receives from the Rossford Toledo Joint Economic Development Zone Agreement, which council extended last year for an additional 35 years.

The repayment schedule is structured so the TCIC's annual loan payments fully cover the city's annual debt service on the bonds over the 30-year term.

On January 26th, the TCIC Board of Directors adopted a resolution authorizing the corporation to enter into this loan agreement with the city, demonstrating board approval and alignment.

So, in summary, this ordinance establishes a dedicated self-supported funding mechanism to advance site readiness, attract jobs and housing, and grow the city's tax base, all without impacting the city's general fund.

I want to thank the members of council who attended the economic development and innovation committee last week on the 19th.

Um respectfully request first reading of this proposal, and I'm happy to answer any questions at this time.

Thank you.

Councilman Martinez.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I don't have any questions about your legislation.

My question was why you were you would ask for first reading versus SEP.

The reason why we're asking for first reading is because this will be timed up with the bond legislation, which is item number 10, which bec uh by statute requires two readings.

Thank you.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you.

Um sorry I missed a meeting last week.

Okay, but everybody knows.

Then what a grandbaby.

But I am so happy to see this going forth.

I know I have great expectations for this, and I know um Brandon, you're going to work diligently to make sure that this happens in a very big way for the city of Toledo.

So thank you all for your work.

And we'll go first reading.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Council Moore's.

Sorry.

Um I I just had a real quick question.

Is this any any kinds of decisions, any kinds of uh are you reporting on a regular basis to city council, to our economic, I don't even know what it's called anymore, the committee.

Um because I I feel like um while I understand that you know we want to make sure that we attract individuals, I don't I feel like this body needs to still be kept in the loop.

And so I'm hoping that there's some type of a regular regular um contact that you are going to have with the committee or at least with council.

We'd be happy to do that, schedule that with committee chair Meldon.

We also, just for council, um, we also have a website, ToledoCIC.com where everything related to this, the governing documents, all the meeting minutes, uh, the audits are all posted on there.

So we are fully going to be transparent and would welcome the opportunity to have regular updates to council.

Yeah, I appreciate the transparency more than you more than you know.

Um the the issue that I have sometimes is that I find out out about issues that are happening with the city when the average public finds out that they're happening.

And so it's just it's just helpful because when people ask me that question, I say I about something, whatever it is.

I just found out myself.

So it's just helpful because people come to us and ask us questions, and and a lot of times we aren't kept up to speed on some of this stuff.

So it's just it's just helpful to have that that communication.

That's all I'm saying.

Happy to.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Great point.

And so, as vice chair, we want to make sure that you are sending us how about a monthly update as to what's going on.

Just and that that can go to all council members just as to what is going on for that month or what has transpired that month, just to keep everybody and not just the committee, but keeping uh city council abreast on what's happening, what's moving, what what buildings and and you can do this now.

What buildings have we torn down and cleared the land so they'll know because we have done some uh factory clean outs, those the projections of those properties or clean outs that we plan to do or you plan to do.

Um and that just gives us just like uh councilwoman more says when our citizens come to us and say, Hey, what's that going on over there?

Because I don't know.

And they were like, you don't know.

They don't tell us everything.

So that will help all of us in knowing what's going on, not just in our districts, but in our city at in totality.

Sure.

We'd be happy to appreciate that.

We'll be happy to do the monthly reports.

I also want to know the president of council also sits on the board of the TCIC, so it was designed that way to make sure that there's overlap and transparency with the members of council.

So um but would be happy to do the monthly reports.

Yes, because I don't want to hold her I don't want to hold her hostage and making having to do all of that and being president of council.

So we're gonna put that on, we're gonna put that on the committee.

We'll put it on you, Brady.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Vice Chair McPherson, what is your recommendation?

First reading.

Thank you.

Item number.

Um thank you.

Good afternoon, Councilman Hobbes, members of City Council, uh Melanie Campbell from the Department of Finance.

Um I'm joined here today by Jamie Tackis, our uh manager of debt and CIP, and we'll be covering items 10 through 14, which are all related to bond issuances, uh, starting with the first one as Director Sellhorse mentioned for non-tax revenue bonds.

I'm gonna turn it over to um manager Tacis to give you an update on that.

Good afternoon.

As Director Campbell said, I'm here to present agenda items uh 10 through 14.

Um and we are asking for first reading on all these items today.

Um agenda item number 10 is a companion item to item number nine, as Chief Selhurst just discussed um and is for non-tax revenue bonds in an amount not to exceed 18.7 million.

Uh proceeds of these bonds uh will be loaned to the TCIC for a variety of economic development projects and debt service will be repaid uh from payments made to the city by uh TCIC.

Um take any questions you have on this piece now.

Councilman Driscoll.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

What is the debt service on on the on the bonds here?

What's the actual number?

Just under a million dollars in the draft amortization schedule that we have from our underwriters.

Okay.

What what do we do with the extra money?

So we we're getting a little bit more than that.

That will just flow to the rest of this flows to TCIC, but we'll we'll make them just the minimum payment.

We don't anticipate paying these bonds off early.

Is that correct?

The average amount over the past five years that the TCIC has generated is about 1.3 million on average.

Um so that let's just say that extra $300,000 is cushioned essentially.

So that will come into the TCIC and be used for the Shovel Ready Sites Fund, but we've kind of provided a little bit of cushion there.

Um so the one million will go to paid debt service for the city's funds.

Okay.

Um Director Campbell, what once we've made this agreement with Rossford about the JEDs, um, some of that money was back pay for years that they weren't paying.

That's correct, right?

How is that accounted for in our annual financials?

Uh do we treat that as a payment into the I mean the agreement was made last year, correct?

So we do we treat that as revenue for 2025, even though theoretically it should have been revenue paid to us in prior years.

If you don't mind, I I'll take uh maybe I'll start with that question.

Um part of the agreement with council last year when we approved this deal with Rossford is for all of the money, including the back years that were withheld to go into the TCIC.

So there was a payment made by Rossford in December of last year at about 4.8 million dollars, which is the amount of the five years that has been withheld.

So that is money already in the fund that will be used for shovel ready sites.

I understand how the agreement works.

My question is an accounting question about what happened.

So how do we keep track?

So the tw like in the year 2023, we should have been receiving a certain amount of money from Rossford, but we didn't.

But it seemed but that but we receive a lump sum payment in 2025.

That is it used in any way to sort of close out the books in 2023.

I mean, from an accounting standpoint, did we treat that as general fund revenue in 2025, even though it really should have been given to us two years prior?

For our 2025 financials, that entire amount will be reported as revenue in 2025.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Councilman Soratso.

Thank you, Chair Hobbs.

I just want to follow up on that.

So in the previous years when we didn't get income from Rossford, how was that reported in our financials?

There was no revenue reported from the Rossford jets in the financials.

What was the reason that we didn't get that revenue from Rossford during those years?

We were in negotiation with them around how to um the best serve the public safety needs of the district at the time.

So there's you know it's been very public that they've struggled with uh fire and EMS services out in the JED territory.

So we were exploring various revenues of how to how to do that.

Ultimately came to this conclusion.

Thank you.

That's welcome.

That's why I wanted the answer to that, so we understand that it wasn't just uh pay us when you can.

There was significant reasons.

Okay, thank you.

Um my recommendation is first reading on this, Mr.

Chairman.

Item number 11.

Um I will discuss item uh 11, 12, 13, and 14 together.

Um, and fourteen are all new general obligation items.

They're all projects that are included in our 2026 capital improvement plan in total uh 40.6 million.

Um item number 11 is for the raise grant match uh in an amount not to exceed 19.8 million.

Um item number 12 is for our road and bridge maintenance program and totals 12 point uh one million and item number 14 is for fire vehicles and equipment and is for an amount not to exceed 1.1 million.

And item number 13 is for a potential refunding opportunity uh for the 2015 bonds and is for 7.49 million.

Um typically with a refunding, we would review potential savings at the time we issue the debt and make a decision about whether or not to move forward with the refunding um if we see savings at that time.

I can take questions on those items.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

Uh so uh on item um 13, how much do you project we will save by refunding?

Right now we're projecting uh uh savings of about 184,000.

Um that is a little bit lower than what our threshold would be, but because of um timing, economies of scales, we may move forward with that refunding.

Very good.

Okay.

Well, I appreciate the uh keeping an eye out on refunding because that does ultimately save the city money in the long run.

So uh with that I'd request uh first reading on um uh 11, 12, and 13 and 14.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Items number 15.

15 through 18 Department of Transportation.

Good afternoon, Christy Soncrant, Commissioner, Engineering and Construction Management.

Item number 15.

This ordinance authorizes the appropriation expenditure of 500,000 from our capital improvement fund, 1.75 million from the special assessment approvement fund, and 1.25 million from our tree assessment fund for our 2026 sidewalk program.

Um resolution 5325 was passed on December 2nd of 25, declaring it necessary to repair the walks.

Our property owners were notified of the program in January via email.

Um as you guys are aware, uh we did a pilot program last year to try to revamp our sidewalk program.

Um and this program is actually putting some of that that we learned from that program into it.

Uh for example, this year um we are we originally had 330 trees that were going to be removed as part of our program.

And by using different methods, such as asphalt kind of around the trees and going up and over some, we are able to save 150 trees this year.

So we're really excited with this.

I just want to thank you for this.

This is big.

Those residents were really upset and to be able to offer them something.

How was it how is it figured?

That small pocket of trees that must go, is that because of the sidewalks?

Yes.

Yes.

The rubber would not.

Correct.

Correct.

You can't always, and then some of them what we've also learned through this whole thing with really engineering and forestry working together through this whole process is that in the past, unfortunately, some of the trees that have been planted in our right-of-way aren't always the correct trees for that location or that application.

And they're just bigger than the amount that, or they grew bigger than the space that was there.

Thank you.

And then how long will it take to get the trees replanted?

Our goal, depending on how, because we only like planting trees in the fall or spring because we want to make sure that they can survive.

So we are hoping to have, of course, all of the projects done this year and have enough time to plant them in the fall, but we could possibly be planting them in the spring timing-wise and weather-wise also.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Col Smith Martinez.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So as a district rep, this is very welcome news that we're having a sidewalk program.

So some of the biggest complaints I get are trash, sidewalks and trees.

For saving the trees, we're using asphalt around them.

Or is it a different bioproject?

So my logic is it's a petroleum-based project that we're putting on the root system.

Isn't that gonna kill the tree?

It's um no, it does not.

There's many places that have done it.

In fact, you know, like all of I know you guys doing a lot of us city employees when we go on vacation, we take a look around, right?

At other locations.

So last year, um, actually on two of my trips.

So I was in Washington, DC last year, and they actually are already, of course, using them around their trees.

Um, and then I was also in um Vancouver, and they also have them um around their trees also.

And it kind of allows if it's right next to the tree, it allows uh the sidewalk to move.

Oh, movement, yeah, growth and expansion.

Okay.

Yeah.

So in most of the places that these that we're mostly going to use that application is um downtown areas or more in tree well areas.

So there won't be as many used in the neighborhoods, but we do have, of course, locations where we're using them, you know, in the in the neighborhoods if we don't have enough room to maybe walk the sidewalk around because the right-of-way isn't big enough to do that.

And the trees are smaller.

So it won't cost.

And then this is just new sidewalks or repairs.

This is it would be repairs.

This is strictly.

This is for our sidewalk repair program.

So when we're just removing a couple panels or gotcha.

And then how many, how many, I guess, miles?

Is that how you would gauge this?

How much how much sidewalk are you expecting to replace this year?

Oh.

Um five, well, 1532, so 1,532 properties I'm replacing.

Um, but that could be one or two panels, you know, I don't know per each property how many panels were replacing.

Gotcha.

And then so again, I'm gonna go to communication strategy is my question.

And I because I again sidewalks, trees, and trash are my biggest complaints, and it's because it's getting better, and especially around roads.

Um the residents don't know when you're coming, and all of a sudden there's stuff is torn up or there's mounds of dirt left, and the contractor hasn't communicated when he'll be back to pick it up or reseed or take out the forms or anything like that.

So is there a strategy behind that?

Yes, as we all know, we have a wonderful comms department.

And um we have been having constant meetings.

Um there's door tags that will be in place when we're doing the project.

Um as I said, all these residents have already been notified that um they're in front of them as being done.

Uh and then when it comes time and the project starts, we will be doing door tanger door hangers to let them know that we are coming through and it will go and it'll be occurring.

So yes, they will be notified.

All right, fantastic.

I'm excited.

Okay, thank you.

Dr.

Jones, Councilwoman Dr.

Jones.

Thank you, Chair.

I wanted to track back to the asphalt around the tree.

Um could you explain that setup?

Because are you just dumping the asphalt on the tree, or is it going to be some sort of um maybe a separate divider that will go around?

Because basically, as I'm I researched, I just looked it up.

The reason why trees break through the asphalt is because they can't get oxygen and water.

So if you're just dumping on the tree, then that's gonna recall for you all to come back and fix the sidewalk because it's fighting.

So how is that going to what is the vision when it comes to the good question?

I agree, because this was new to all of us, so we did a bunch of Googling.

And um and we actually went out and looked.

So Bowling Green also had a couple locations.

That was the first place we checked out when we first heard about this a couple years ago.

So this isn't like uh, you know, we're running.

Um anyways, and then we actually had a company come in and um our own city um employees actually installed some of this in a few locations.

They came in and showed us how you mix it up on site.

So it's almost like how you have to mix up concrete and it has um it has the cement and the um stone and all that, and you mix things together.

So this you mix different um materials together.

Okay.

And then you just you kind of pour it out like concrete does, and then you have to place it with trowels, kind of like you do concrete also.

And you have to be a little bit quicker because it does cure faster.

So it is a tedious process, which is why it is a little more expensive.

So we are only using it in spots where we really couldn't do concrete or anything else would work.

So is it all the way up to the trunk?

Is there going to be space around it?

It'll be space around it.

Just just like so it will be kind of like you walk a regular sidewalk, and if with the concrete you kind of move it around.

We're gonna move the sidewalk around also, but we're gonna use this material to move it around because it'll still be close enough, we're afraid it could.

Kind of like blending and the tree is big enough that it'll still be over some of the roots.

Okay.

Interesting concept.

I was just wondering, you know, in order to avoid returning to fix the sidewalk because the tree is basically suffocating.

What methods or what design I would should say would be used for this instead of just having basically the asphalt covering the trunk of the tree.

It will so it will won't be the trunk, but it will have like you're saying, it will have it will be on the grass area where hopefully those um routes won't be trying to go up to get more oxygen or water or whatever they're trying to do when they raise up.

So the one you're looking, I don't know what you're looking at.

Just a standard.

Okay, it's more flexible pavement.

So it's yeah.

Okay, so it will go, yeah.

So I mean water can go through it.

Okay.

And um well, you said it was in BG, some of these pictures?

Yes.

Okay.

Because I would like to look at some of these and and as far as far as aesthetics are concerned.

And when you when this was done, what age was the tree?

As far as like the BG example, were they young trees?

No, it was an older tree.

Older tree.

Because it was a bigger tree.

Okay.

It it covered the walk and it was a nice shade to the gentleman's home.

Okay.

And with this the anticipated ones, are they gonna um it's a mixture of old and young trees when when you start to institute this?

I would I do not know exactly.

Oh, when you come okay.

Yeah.

I'm just yeah, because I I will be interested in knowing how they react.

Um, especially let's say if they just had a tree replaced, and then this is something that will be falling within that program, how would they react the by they as the tree to this new design um versus a more mature tree that has been there already?

Um Do you have pictures?

You have of of other locations?

Yeah, we could wear it.

I can yeah, I would like to see those.

So I'll put in a referral for that.

Yes, definitely.

And then um like I said, it's very interesting concept.

I just like I said I don't want coarse trees to die.

Oh, yeah.

Because of something like this, but then also we don't have to revisit a broken sidewalk because the tree is basically suffocating.

So I will yeah.

Okay.

I will put in a referral.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Councilman Martinez.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh one last question, because I'm totally digging this.

So I already did a referral, so I'm gonna do it formally so you know if you can provide some addresses so we can go check them out.

Uh I I'm like fascinated by this.

So I'm assuming it's not necessarily like asphalt, but it's some sort of aggregate with some sort of composite material.

Yeah, they can help some breathe and no.

Would love to have you guys come out and check them out.

Uh yeah, road trip.

Let's uh let's set it up.

Um yeah, I think that's really cool.

Plus it would help with sustainability goals.

So there's there's a lot of positive to doing this, and I appreciate you guys uh thinking outside the box and and doing a pilot project and see how it works.

So um one of the especially in the more mature neighborhoods where we're just taking down huge trees, if we can save as many of those as possible, that is probably one of the the biggest complaint I get is these old mature trees.

If we've just killed the canopy and we have these little sprigs that was popping up randomly, which actually raises my next question.

So when we do plant trees, are we putting like water totes around them to make sure they survive, or are we just planting them, water them and good luck?

I will check and see.

Okay.

Hi, Megan Ropeson, chief of operations for the city of Toledo.

When we plant trees, we do plant them with the water bags.

Um we um provide um some markers ahead of time and information to the residents where the trees are going to be planted, letting them know how to take care of those trees and asking them to help us with filling those water bags so we can make sure those trees survive.

Councilwallman McPherson.

Thank you.

Just one question.

Where there are trees on the city side of the side sidewalk, you know, the grass and it's city side, and those trees have bombarded the sidewalk in this, you know, this sidewalk is doing this and this and all.

Do we fix that with that kind of stuff with that tree and then redo the sidewalk, or do we have to get rid of those trees because their roots are so high?

I think once again it depends on the tree that's there and and how close it is.

I mean, there's a I would guess we probably have to.

I mean, there's more of a positive that we would, you know, we probably have to if it has really heaved it up a lot and it's a larger tree.

Um, but if there does happen to be m room still towards the right of way, um I did see one in part of our pilot project.

There was enough room in the right-of-way that we were still able to move the walk around and we're gonna be able to save that tree.

So I did see one where we could save it, but I don't know it's it's gonna be, you know, so are we still going around determining what trees are I don't want to say dead, but I guess that's the word for it.

Those trees that cannot be saved or yeah, so what we're still doing actually is through any of our projects, um, the engineers and the arborist work together before we do actually any of our roadway water line projects, whatever, and they'll walk the street together and kind of go with a set of plans and determine what trees need to come out, what can be saved before any of these projects go.

So but before we did our sidewalk program, um the engineers and the arborist walked all of these locations to help together determine which ones we think we could save and which ones couldn't, or which ones, like I said, some of them were already diseased anyway, so they had to come out.

So looking ahead, and this ain't with sidewalks, but it's with the trees with the lantern flies that we were bombarded with last year, and they do affect our trees.

Um is there anything that we can do about that?

Is there has have anybody found out anything?

In regards to the lantern flies.

I do not know, but I'll take it by referral for us to have our forestry look into and get you that answer.

Yeah, because I think it was forestry when we were out of Woodlawn Cemetery.

Yeah, Woodlawn Cemetery, and we were looking at the trees because they do affect our trees.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um I'm not sure if it's the same material, and um Director Falls may know the answer to this, but if you are at Ottawa Park, um as you run the I run the park in right in front of the shelter house, there are several huge cottonwoods between the shelter house and Kinwood Avenue.

One of those cotton woods roots were really up and had came across the trail and broken the trail up really bad through there.

And uh uh Dr.

Falznoff and I had several conversations, and I'm not sure of the company he hired, but they came through and then they got close to the roots they went around and then straightened back out on the path.

But the roots are still there.

The tree is doing very well.

Um it's not a concrete material, so it may be the material you're talking about, but the way they did it and went around the roots and uh and the tree is doing very well.

So it it seems to be working, and uh I know that that process is exactly working.

And this is a I mean the the limbs on the tree are wider than me.

I mean it's a really old tree, and they went right around it, and it is doing very, very well.

Good.

Your recommendation, Chair Driscoll.

Again, just a couple finance related questions on this.

Um we use CIP, but we could assess it completely, but we choose to use CIP, is that correct?

Well, CIP the so CIP is actually for the intersections a lot of times where we do the um PED ramps or anything like that.

So that is where we do the CIP.

Okay, so it's there's no property owner to whom that we could assess the the fund.

Right.

Okay, so it's a total, so it's a total three and a half million dollar project, and you have a couple sources of funding that we're trying from.

Yes.

That $500,000 CIP number, though, is that from the 2025 budget or the 2026 budget?

Because the assessed numbers are from the 2025, I remember when we did that ordinance, but the $500,000, the reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure that was the CIP request in the 2026 budget for the sidewalk program.

So the 500,000 proposed is for the 2026.

From the 2026 budget.

Everything that you're seeing as a part of the budget that was presented when we did the tree sidewalk rehabilitation program that we presented to council was all a part of the 2026 budget and 2026.

We are programmed we passed that assessment legislation.

There was yeah, so we've done that already, but the $500,000 CIP, where's that money come?

That is that a 2026.

Well, we haven't approved the budget yet for 2026.

That's that's correct.

Are we allowed to spend?

I mean, I guess this is a question for the finance director or law, I suppose, but are we allowed to spend 2026 money if we haven't passed the budget yet?

And I don't want to hold this up so that so no, I was gonna say we wouldn't award, we couldn't award it until it was passed.

So I'll defer it up to the it would be my understanding if the legislation had appropriation and expenditure legisl like language in that and you approve both the appropriation and expenditure that then it could then be utilized for contracts.

Okay, I'll I'll let President Williams go and then I'll I guess give the recommendation.

Council President Williams.

So I would probably def want to defer to Melanie because at the end of the day we didn't pass the budget.

So it does seem like we're at a stance to you uh with this.

So I would definitely defer this to uh because if we if we vote for the appropriation before we we could be as trouble, so I don't I imagine I don't take it out of that that trunch that first three months stuff that that we appropriate it but budget uh and I don't think they want to do that.

So I think we'll have to defer this to uh we we might have to even put it in committee until we find the answer to it.

So I don't I don't know where we are, so I would definitely defer to Melanie if Melanie uh uh we might have to do a referral for it and first read it because we can't appropriate money if we don't have a budget to appropriate it from the councilman Driscoll.

Okay.

I think the right call here then is to go first reading.

Maybe we'll get an answer in between now and Tuesday.

I think it's possible then that we could break out the $500,000 and and use the assessed money to do the work.

Or I mean we one way or another the budget will be passed by March 31st.

That's not that far away.

Uh however, I don't know if the $500,000 for the CIP is gonna make it into the final budget.

So my recommendation is gonna be first reading, and then I think we'll probably be talking on the phone sometime soon.

Thank you.

Okay.

Councilman Soratsi.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chairman.

Um you'll recall we did pass a temporary budget for January, February, and March.

But again, we need clarification from the finance director of whether we can proceed because uh as councilwoman uh Gannis just pointed out, number four would also uh be a question that we need to answer the for the uh uh assisting uh customers of DPU with that hundred thousand.

So uh we'll make a referral and get an answer.

We have a finance meeting tomorrow at four o'clock, and I would think we would have the answer tomorrow at the latest.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh Chairman Hobbs.

Item 16 This ordinance allows the city to accept one million in funding from ODOT for a multi-use path project on Parkside Boulevard that will widen and resurface the existing path uh between Bancroft and Nebraska and allow us to extend the path from Nebraska to Hill.

This funding will cover 80 percent of the project's cost with the city providing a 20 percent match.

This ordinance also allows the allows the mayor to enter into an agreement to accept the funding.

Um requesting SCP and we'll take any questions at this time.

I think we're in the same situation to make sure we have to uh now defer the definitely defer this uh to councilman Driscoll as a chair of transportation uh we if we do any match, we won't have to hold off on this.

Uh we can't spend appropriate any money out of a budget we don't have in front of us.

So first reading.

Requesting first reading.

Too late.

Uh no, uh first reading is fine.

Thank you.

All right, 17.

Okay.

17.

This ordinance allows us to accept additional grant funding from OPWC for our resurfacing project on Sylvania Avenue between Douglas and Upton that is scheduled to construct this year.

The original award from OPWC had less grant funding than loan due to the grant funds being available.

They found additional grant funding.

Therefore, we get to increase our grant and reduce the loan.

Um I guess I can still take first reading.

I don't think this actually this doesn't need it, but um we'll take any questions at this time.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um this is the area from um Upton Avenue to Douglas, the repaving project.

Correct.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councilman McPherson.

Just a question on you said it was to reduce the loan, so what is the difference?

I'm sorry.

So I just changed from a loan to a grant.

It's the same amount, but now of course we don't have to.

It's the same amount, but now of course we don't have to.

Okay.

Thank you.

Chairman Driscoll, what is your recommendation?

Actually, now this one I don't think we need to go first reading.

But now I'm now I'm scared.

So I'm gonna say first reading, but I think I think we'll get clarification from law on that one, but I think we'll go SCP, but I'm gonna say first reading today.

This is going well as chair, I think.

Item 18.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, Councilman Martin.

That's okay, Mr.

I came in late and I was just so our favorite project and program for safe routes to school.

Do we have an idea where we're applying for this portion?

Yeah, that's the next one.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm ahead of you.

We can I can start right now.

All right.

Um next ordinance is for Washington Local Safe Rights to School.

Uh this resolution would authorize us City Toledo to partner with Livewell Greater Toledo in order to apply for grant funds through ODOT for the Safe Routes to School program.

Grant funding is to be used to construct infrastructure improvements related to the recommendations of the Washington local safe routes to school plan with construction taking place in 2029.

Proposed sidewalks are for Shoreland Elementary School, which has seen an increase in walkers and bikers since they have built the new school.

All sidewalks proposed are on curbed streets and will connect into other existing sidewalk networks, connecting missing sidewalks along portions of two lane, Angel, Ruth Ann, Engel Boulevard, and also one side of Ketokee between uh Mayport and the dedicated school path that leads directly from the school.

Construction estimate is $816,834.

Um there's no local matching funds required for this grant, and uh the grant pays for 100% of the construction costs of the project.

And I will take any questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Sorry about that.

Uh so super supportive uh of the uh safe routes of school program.

Um but what I've learned is please, please, please make sure the residents know what's going on and stay in constant communication.

Two years, right?

I walk in and you know I'm putting out a fire uh because of lack of information or understanding of what the project was or a holistic viewpoint uh of how this connects to other uh safe route programming.

So that's my only warning, and I'm super supportive, and you know uh a lot can happen between now and then.

I understand, you know, different members will be on this body, potentially you know, mayor, you know, whatever.

You just never know, but please, please, please stay in contact with the residents that are impacted by this program and project.

Thank you.

Consul and Morris.

Ditto.

I I I have the same problem.

Um it it's sidewalks and trees, uh it makes people lose their minds.

And so um, you know, in places where there are no sidewalks and and the bike path over to Shoreland is even controversial too.

So um regardless, kids need to get to school and they have to have safe ways to get there, and we need to make sure that we communicate that with our residents and um explain that.

Maybe we tell them three times, maybe we tell them ten times.

I don't know, but um it is it's it's one of the biggest things that like I said, people just they they lose their minds about, and so it's really really important.

So thank you.

Councilman Driscoll, Chair Driscoll, what is your recommendation?

SEP.

Thank you.

Clerk reports.

Okay, under the clerk reports we have a resolution beginning the vacation process, declaring the intent to vacate a portion of Jefferson Avenue between Water Street and the Maumee River.

We had uh six items come from the zoning and planning committee, a zone change at 1839 Tremainesville.

Uh an amendment to a special use permit for the expansion at 4757 Monroe Street.

Uh map amendment of the Vistula neighborhood.

Um amending uh Toledo Municipal Code Section 1104.0100 use table adding special use requirements for storage facilities.

Uh amending Toledo Municipal Code Section or Chapter 1106.0401 to remove major from site plan review for density bonus.

And then a text amendment on uh 1111.0610 regarding uh legacy zone changes.

Okay.

We have uh one resolution in attendance recognizing uh what were students Zach Aubrey and Anthony Mitchell for demonstrating exceptional bravery just real briefly uh these are the two young uh students who um witnessed uh a very serious car accident on Douglas and um we it was it was a couple weeks ago but um we were kind of uh filled up with our resolution so we're gonna have the students come in and honor them in a day when there are so many people that just want to mind their own business and not help or start filming as opposed to reacting, calling 911, helping um this was very courageous of these two young men.

So I just wanted to give you a little bit of um history about the resolution.

Thank you.

All right, we have three appointments.

Um first one is to the Lucas County Commission on Disabilities that would be uh Megan Regal.

Uh that's a new appointment, our new appointments um of Windsor link to the home improvement and home remodeling board of control.

One reappointment of Dean Frederick to the home improvement and home remodeling board of control.

We have uh two second read items.

Um ordinance 034 lease agreement with Toledo Edison and Detweiler Park.

Um, and then uh second second re item is 051 amending Toledo Municipal Code by repealing and enacting multiple sections of chapter 2101.

Anne Council President Williams.

Thank you.

Uh just real quick, I want to revisit the second reading item for Detweiler parking lot pool.

Uh Megan uh Chief Robert Megan Roberson and um I don't know what job title director Joe Fosna uh is is here to talk about some different amendments that are with this with Toledo Edison.

We do have more information and a map.

So I wanted to beg the chair to allow them to speak about the potential amendment coming forward.

We ready?

Um so as a reminder, um, this ordinance is requesting authorization for the mayor to enter into a lease agreement with Toledo Edison for use of a parking lot at Detweiler Park to use as a temporary storage lot.

Um they're they're doing a electrical upgrade uh nearby and uh uh nearby neighborhood and need a place to store materials and equipment during during that work.

Umriginally um they had proposed to pay us $500 per month for approximately a year uh to use that space.

Um we did a counter offer to that, and uh they agreed to pay um a thousand dollars a month to be able to use that space for the same amount of time.

Um council had expressed an interest in having the fencing around that area screened so that it would obscure a majority of the material that that's being stored there, Toledo S and also agreed to accommodate that request.

Um a question was raised about whether or not they considered any other spaces as being uh feasible to uh put the storage area, and they did get back to me and let me know that they had found one other parcel that they were considering, but upon further investigation, there were several gas lines that ran under the parcel, and they were concerned about uh bringing their equipment in and out over those gas lines.

So the debtweiler site ended up being their preferred option.

Um I guess the final thing that I will say is is that um I'm in favor of of uh granting permission to use this space.

It's the former pool parking lot, so it's not a space that will affect activation of the park.

Um furthermore, I I think um it it invests in an area that um desperately needs investment.

the debtweiler site ended up being their preferred option um uh I guess uh the final thing that I will say is is that um I'm in favor of of uh granting permission to use this space it's a former pool parking lot so it's not a space that will affect activation of the park um furthermore I I think um it it invests in an area that um desperately needs investment um it it it's a neighborhood that um if if if we can lift up we should and by being a good partner at Toledo Edison and helping you know make these investments it it seems like a small price to pay actually they're paying us to do it but but you know we're being inconvenienced so that's our price to pay to help this neighborhood um so you know I I ask that you please consider uh approving the ordinance got us thank you thank you for uh countering them um it says that the funds are to be deposited in the parkland preservation fund is there uh role a roadmap of what is going to be happening in the parkland preservation like is there uh do we have a plan in place no there there's not a lot of money there um but we get very few opportunities to dedicate income to to the parks so it you generally comes from a cell tower lease or at least similar to this um so that if we had the opportunity to expand a park uh that required us to actually buy a property or uh a match requirement uh through a grant to acquire a property we'd be able to use those funds to do that so it's it's nice to have them there so that if if we get an opportunity we can take advantage of it.

Absolutely thank you.

Thank you Chair.

Council President Williams.

Thank you um I am in favor of this as a district councilwoman knowing where the lighting and electrical upgrades are going to be there is a um housing complex right there an affordable housing complex in that area um and it definitely had diminished elect electrical we just talked about this prior to this legislation coming through of an area not having any lights so when you go down this area it does need some significant upgrades and there are all affordable housing projects right there.

It is affordable housing projects that needs to be well lit so I'm glad that um they did consider doing this project I know we delayed it and there was a little bit of confusion this has nothing to do with the big view uh I I I honestly would have never agree to letting anybody stage and take away the park to do the renovations.

I would have never agreed to that I understand it's a hot topic and it's it's very touchy to talk about that but taking away a park to do the renovations of the uh uh reclamation plant was nothing that I would have let happen especially that park uh so I'm glad that uh Toledo Edison heard saw and found that because they don't do anything so this is something for them to do they absolutely do nothing for them to take this initiative to do this and then pay us to do it is great because uh this is an impoverished neighborhood that does need some significant upgrade so it was a bit of confusion I'm glad that it was cleared up because I thought it was point place getting it done and now finally I know that is uh definitely a neighborhood that needs it as well uh I appreciate the effort on the administration to get the information that's needed sometimes we do have to take a pause and say okay give us some more information go back we can't just let you c come and do anything you want to without having all the information so I'm glad we did hold it um but I uh I appreciate if if this council will support this this is an impoverished neighborhood if you go out there it's very impoverished so I appreciate that uh uh uh work on the administration and uh Toledo Edison to get us that thank you councilwoman McPherson thank you Councilman Hotz my one question is it says the contract is for one year so the the the contract is for one year there is authorization for a month a month after that in case for weather or some other reason they go a month or two over the the projected year for the project but the expectation right now is that they would be done within a year um okay my concern is if we're gonna do a one year contract then we do a one year contract and then they would come back if it's not done and then go why would we go month to month and then because they could run month to month to month to month to month to month I'm just to have some a a complete deadline and then if they need to come back and say well we're running into some issues and we're not I'm kind of torn in between the whole thing with this so that's my only concern the thousand dollars a month going to park land preservation fund great but if it's gonna be a year it's gonna be a year if it needs to be extended then they need to come back to us.

So that's my only concern.

The thousand dollars a month going to park land preservation fund, great.

But if it's going to be a year, it's gonna be a year.

If it needs to be extended, then they need to come back to us.

That's all I'm saying.

Thank you.

Um Councilwoman Morse.

Thank you.

I'm curious.

Did did um did Edison approach us and say, hey, can we use this location for can you also find out the address of the other location that they were um using?

Did they give that to you, Joe?

Um they did not give the exact address.

Um they mentioned that they are they are doing a project on the east side of Toledo and setting up a staging area there.

Um I don't know the address of that site either, but I know they're trying to do these two projects simultaneously.

So they uh they did mention they're they're doing this on the east side and they had um investigated another local property on on this side of the river, but they didn't give me the exact address.

Yeah, I I'm curious to uh know about the address and I'm curious how much they are how much they were looking at giving that other location.

Um I am all for improving our parks.

Twelve thousand isn't a lot to spend in a park when you're trying to improve.

It's something, I will give you that, but it's not a lot.

I grew up in Regina Manor and across the street from Detweiler and um looking over at the ballpark and and and used to go swimming at the pool uh fondly.

Um and it's just it's sad that it um that it that Dettweiler has really not had the attention that it really needed, and it is true that is an impoverished um uh neighborhood and certainly does need to be improved uh as a lot of our city needs to be improved that we were talking about the lights.

I just I mean I have a huge district that has a lot of industrial sites, and I think it's a slippery slope when you start um letting businesses come into your parks and and rent them out.

I I it could happen at Ottawa, it could happen all over the place.

I just I I just have a lot of concerns about this, and and I don't know that I can support this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um first of all, uh as you and I have discussed, the zoning code says a fence, and the green part of that fence can only be seven feet high.

So clearly there will be um it will be visible uh with some of their trucks and equipment uh I'm sure is more than seven feet high.

Secondly, why can't they consider there's quite a bit of land around that LMHA housing project?

I'm wondering why they didn't consider having their equipment there since that's where they're gonna be doing most of the work.

Um we have children there.

Well, I I don't know, I'm just asking, because there is quite a bit of land there.

Um it's it's not a real densely built area.

Obviously, I I don't know the answer to your question, but I have to assume that this this is taking quite a bit of work on on our part and on your part uh to cons to consider this ordinance, and if there was an easier option for them or a better option for them, they certainly would have taken that by now.

Um their their project is not getting started on time as it is.

Um so if they had a viable option around, you know another space to use, I I've got to imagine they would have exercised that that option by now.

Could you ask them if they considered that site?

I and I don't know the answer to that.

I just want to know if that's even doable.

If it's not, we need to know that.

And if it is, we need to know that also.

I would appreciate an answer on that if you can't.

Okay.

I can yeah.

This week before we have to make a decision on Tuesday.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Councilman Martinez.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So I just wanted to uh kind of follow up on a question that my colleague, Councilwoman Morris asked about a private company staging on park space, because that that's that's a good point that I didn't consider until she mentioned it.

Is there any other precedent that we've done that before?

Uh outside of our our own like city construction cruise or anything?

There is, um, but not for the time period that we're talking about for this.

So it's it's it's happened several times that I can think of that a roadway project would be happening, and I've been asked to allow the contractor to park machinery either in a park parking lot um, you know, for a week or two weeks while they're completing the project.

Um and I've not charged them anything to do that because I I want to assist getting the roadway project done.

Sure.

Sure.

And I guess it's a public utility, right?

So roads and though it's private, I guess they'll provide a public utility.

Okay, I got it.

Okay, thank you.

Um I just want to say that uh we spent last year redoing almost all of the trail at Ottawa Park and some other parts that would extend uh off of the park.

The company that did the work did not take their equipment back and forth every day.

They used a portion when you pull into the shelter house where they're normally port a potties, they had that section there where they had the steamroller, the tar, all that, that equipment was in that parking lot for several months as they completed that parking that project.

They did not every day bring it in every day, take it out every day, take it in every it was there until they finished the project.

And I don't know if we got anything extra for them doing that, but I'm just stating that it was the park was used by the company that redone the trail at Ottawa and surrounded.

Yep, thank you for that.

Uh I think the the big difference is that was our project, so we didn't charge them uh to to use our space.

In this case, it's it's a company doing a public project, but not necessarily our project.

So that's why we're getting the lease payments rather than just being a partner in the project.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just to follow up uh director.

Um what effect if they were to put their equipment there at debtweller, what effect does that have on the golf course uh in the parking lot over there?

Uh no effect there.

This parking lot is well away from the golf course parking.

Um there's there's rarely any use in that.

In fact, there's there's materials stored there that um we took out.

Um it was either either from along the the waterfront downtown here or uh Summit Street where the the trail is falling into the bay.

Um so we're storing material there now.

Um so you know it's just a lot that's not been used much because the the pool has been closed.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

If there'd be nothing else, this meeting is adjured.