Hello, welcome everyone to the uh meeting of the Board of Honor.

Um, my name is Barbara Floyd, and I'm a um a community member of this board, and also I am chairing this particular meeting.

So we are ready to begin.

Um, we have three orders of business in front of us today.

The first one is the uh designation of a block and will my street for Kamani Latig.

Is there somebody the person who made that recommendation here who would like to speak to it?

Tell us your name.

My name is Ranshea Allison.

I'm sorry.

Okay, and um I presented it just well, for one, if I be real and transparent because it was something that God spoke to me about.

I had never done anything like this before.

Um, and once he spoke it, I said, okay, God, you have to lead me.

So that's what he did.

He led me what to do.

Um I have been advocating for this baby going to court and helping out at the memorial.

And this was something, like I said, that God put on my heart to do.

So that was why I did it.

Um would you like to speak something about her and why you think this is an appropriate honor?

Um, I think it is definitely an appropriate honor.

Um, for one, of course, you know, the details of what had happened and how it happened.

Um, and it would definitely be something to memori to memorate her and her honor.

Um, the memorial um that's there.

There's a memorial on Wilmot Street that like I said, there's a few of us that we take care of it.

Um, so that's why I said, you know, to do Wilmot and not Miami Street.

Um, and just her light, her light that she shone, um, was a basketball player, um, the smile, and just to remember her as well as other or any other kids, um, but this is like I said, specifically in honor of Kimani, but again, to um allow her name to live on and her legacy.

Does any of the board have any questions?

How old was she?

Oh, well, she didn't do that.

13.

But that yeah, that's funny.

Um, you want people to remember about Kimani?

What do I want them to remember about her?

Um, I want them to remember for one, she was 13, so she went to spring elementary.

She played basketball.

Um, she was an old soul.

I have um her grandmother actually gave me one of her um soundtracks, and she was an old soul, but I want people to remember um not the tragedy, but I want people to remember the triumph.

Right.

Thank you.

Oh, the only concern I have is as a it was a tragedy.

Oh I do not admit, but I I don't know if it's uh what does she contribute to the community that we're you know trying to honor?

That's what this program was set up, is to honor something that people have contributed to the community.

I don't take away that she was a you know a great kid and all that stuff, but a memorial has been placed there.

There is a memorial another memorial in the city for children that have been uh have lost their lives.

Um, so I I just I mean I I question whether it's you know worthy of the sign up there for that.

I guess the purpose that this was set up for.

Do you have any response to that?

And I would say community-wise, I mean at 13 years old, she contributed.

She was a basketball player.

Um as far as you know, community goes.

She was um honor student at spring elementary.

Um she did do things in the community um with the school.

So, you know, I don't know at her age, you know, how much more community-wise, um, you know, she did serve in the community.

Do any other members of the board have any questions?

Thank you.

I want to thank you for bringing this to the honor board.

Um, it is a tragedy.

And yes, she was young, so too established community service or the word, honored DM.

I would say uh, as a student in our community, as an active community uh sports player.

Um she served in short time, what she could, and it is an honor for us to memorialize her life, and the tragedy and how it happened, to remember to say we don't want this to happen to another kid in our community.

That's the honor and the legacy.

That's the purpose of doing this for her, for us, for young girls, yes.

Um that's all that I have to say.

Thank you.

And I think it gives other young people the opportunity to realize, even though you're very, very young, your life can end abruptly, not through anything that you've done, but to keep her memory alive because she was she was young.

Her life was just getting started, you know, and I don't know how we measure what people's lives are worth, whether they're old or young, correct?

But I think I think it would say a lot to young people, that is the life you live, even if it's a short life, you can still have an impact and never be forgotten.

And I think that would be one of the kindest things we could do, not just for Kanani, but for any other young people.

Uh, maybe steer some folks who might be on the wrong path right now, might steer them to the right path to show that kids matter, young people matter, young black kids matter.

Yes, she didn't die in the she will be remembered, and we hold that power in our hands today to memorialize this young lady, you know, and let other people know she was young, you're never too young to die, right?

So be careful how you live your life, and she didn't she didn't do anything wrong, but I think we have the power to make a powerful statement and to keep that young lady's memory alive, and I hope that we can do that.

Thank you.

So there's a memorial there now, some sort of um place marked.

Yes, so there so it started at the 1101 Miami Street.

It was for her birthday, so that memorial was started there, but then they were saying that the city was gonna tear them um tear the house down.

So once that was moved, when we found that out, we moved the memorial to this fence area, of course, talking to the lady that whose property um, so then it was a guy like it was forest, it was like trees and everything.

So we went out there, we talked to the owner, and we went out there and we actually cut those trees, cut all that stuff down.

It was just a few of us.

I know um, and it's always been just a few, but was able to get that done, and so it went from a forest from trees and all of that to it has teddy bears and um cross, you know, just things, basketballs.

There's a sign with her name on it.

Um so there is an area on Wilmot Street um where the memorial is at, but it's not like an official city memorial.

It's just a private um citizens memorial.

Yes, okay.

How does the rest of the family feel?

Are they supportive of this idea?

Yes.

And on that, on that petition, um, her grandmother, Dorothy Latig, which is she's here today.

She was the one who signed.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Any other people from the audience who wish to speak?

Hearing none.

Oh, yes.

You know, I think when someone sat up here, you need to come to the microphone, please, we record this.

Sorry.

You know, I have a daughter, my name is Stephanie Russia from Fremont.

I have a daughter who is a guidance counselor at Danbury City Schools.

And before that she worked with Nami.

And you know listening to her, it's really important like this with with the rate of suicide.

And I think this is one of the best things that you could do to what you said about you know that their lives matter and that to I think that it could make a difference in people seeing and asking about her who was she and that she was young I think what you said is is the right thing that it could really make a big difference.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Anyone else?

And no one on the board has any comments are you ready to vote then?

Is everyone ready to vote?

Okay.

All those in favor um raise your hand.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's all oh I'm sorry yes I call the names okay.

I'll just go around the room here.

Oh sorry.

How were we responding?

Um yes okay I just wanted to make sure I didn't think okay um Mr.

Spitler.

Aye.

Yes.

Ms Cotrell yes Ms.

Oh yes I'm sorry.

Yes I didn't hear you Miss Collins yes.

Mr Stooky.

So again this is just a recommendation that we make to city council this is not our this board is not the final um decider on these issues just so that you understand that this is a recommendation we make to city council and then the city council will take that the issue so just to be clear about that.

Okay the next one on the agenda agenda is a street designation for Lee Liddell and Vernon Liddell at the intersection of junction and Indiana.

And is there someone who are here to speak to that yes I am Councilwoman Sir Sandra McPherson.

Making the request um Mr Lee Lydale senior opened his barber shop first on Door Street in the early 60s.

His barbershop was then because of urban renewal and the decimation of Dor Street urban removal urban removal okay.

Mr Lydale had to move his barber shop and wow it was the early 1950s that he opened his barbershop he moved his barber shop then in the heart of the black community on junction.

Mr Lydale remained there working at that barbershop giving free haircuts to kids before school started every year.

Upon retiring he then transferred the barbershop over to his nephew Vernon Lydale Vernon Lydale continued to work at the Lydale barbershop until his death last year I do believe.

But the Lydale barbershop is a everlasting, and it's really the last African American business that was able to sustain the uh demise of Door Street African American businesses, and it is still there to this day on junction Avenue.

It is now being ran by Vernon Lydale Jr.

Vernon Lydale's son.

This is a uh family business.

Uh prior to that, the building, the house next door, there was a uh a bookstore that was ran by uh retired uh teacher, Beverly Lydale Smith, and the bookstore uh provided African American books for young people and adults.

I am recommending that we rename Indian the corner of Indiana and Junction, Lidale Way, because of the legacy of Lee Lydale Sr.

And Vernon Lydale Sr.

Also, okay.

Are there any other people in the audience who would like to speak to this?

Are there any concerns from transportation about this?

The only thing I'm looking for is I guess do you want the whole intersection or one of the streets?

Normally what we do is we'll take one of the streets and we'll put the name underneath it.

Um whether you know, we just try to name, I know we've done it.

Uh Collingwood and Door, I think.

We tried the whole intersection, we just flag it off, I believe.

Yes, um, because if I recall on the corner where the street sign that actually says junction is on the opposite side of the street, and the street sign that says Indiana is actually diagonally across from that.

So it's whatever would be.

I mean, there's a chance.

I I guess you know there's a chance.

I we might be able to switch corners.

That would be that we could you know move the signs, you know, opposite each other on the you know on the the corner that's closer to the business.

That would be that would be fine, and rename junction then kind of use junction as the junction as the okay for just the one sign then at that interest.

Okay, I think that would be that would be suitable, all right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments from the board on this?

Are you prepared to vote?

That's all I took all the work.

Okay, Mr.

Spittler.

Uh yes, I would vote in favor.

All right, uh, Miss Floyd.

Yes, Ms.

Collins, yes, Mr.

Stookie?

Yes.

Recommendation of yes to the full city council.

Thank you.

Now we're on to the uh third item of business today, um, and that is not to name a street in honor of someone, but to actually remove uh uh a street that is named it for someone.

I'd like to ask the person who um brought forth this request, Claudia Versalati.

Is she here?

Would you like to speak please?

Good afternoon.

Could we start with Lee Paul, the surviving family member first of Sister Margaret Ann?

Would that be possible?

And then me follow him.

Um sure, that's that would be fine.

I just I just was calling you because you were the person who gives the page.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, good afternoon.

Like Claudia said, I'm Lee Paul.

I'm the nephew of Sister Margaret Ann Paul, and I just uh like to thank you for giving us time this afternoon to uh take a look at this important matter.

Um, this is Sister Margaret Ann, my aunt.

I'd like to start by giving you just uh short insight into who my aunt was.

Sister Margaret Ann was born in April 6, 1908 on a 200 acre farm uh west of here near Edgerton, Ohio.

My aunt was a polite, caring, respectful, and very meticulous in everything she did.

She always put others before herself, and from a young age, her goal was always to do nothing more than help people.

And I remember her her radiant smile she had, and it shows on the picture here.

She always had a smile.

In 1927, she went to Fremont, Ohio to the St.

Bernadines Convent to start her journey to become a sister of Mercy.

She took her vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience very seriously.

Sister Margaret Ann was a very accomplished and and vibrant woman.

She had two bachelor of science degrees, one in nursing and one in education.

She had many supervisory positions and different hospitals over the years.

She was a nun for 53 years.

And she was administrator of Mercy Hospital in Tiffin, Ohio, and she was also the administrator here in Toledo of St.

Charles Hospital.

And she was director of the Mercy School of Nursing here in Toledo.

So she had a lot of a lot of important positions over her lifetime here.

So in 1971, she was getting a little older and she wasn't ready to retire to sit back in the rocker yet.

And she went back, came back to Mercy Hospital here in Toledo to become the Sacristan, which is a person that takes care of the chapel.

So just a quick story about her.

While she was there, she would uh teach the other nuns that were there.

She was pretty frugal, as I guess my family is, so we maybe got it from her, I don't know.

But she, you know, when you have a bar of soap and you use it down to small slivers and so on, and you just have trouble throwing that away.

Well, she taught all the nuns to uh put those slivers together into a bigger uh cake of soap, I guess, basically, and so not to be wasteful.

So, on April 5th, 1980.

April 5th, 1980.

It was the day before Easter and the day before her 72nd birthday.

She was brutally murdered in the chapel of Mercy Hospital here in Toledo by Father Gerald Robinson.

Uh, Claudia will talk about this a little bit more here in a little bit.

So I'd like to share a personal story quickly here.

In 2026, it was 26 years after the murder.

The murder trial took place here in Toledo.

I went every day to the trial.

And please keep in mind my family knew nothing of the sinister events that took place for the three weeks following the murder.

We knew nothing about that until I started or until I went to the trial in 2006.

26 years later, I found out about all these things that had happened back in 1980 or surrounding her murder.

And again, Claudia will talk a little bit more about that shortly.

So throughout the the 2006 murder trial, there were testimonies during the trial that just shook me to my core.

Again, family did not know anything about any of this that took place.

So one of them was it had to do with with uh why it took 26 years to bring a man to justice that they knew was guilty in 1980.

It had to do with the fact that Deputy Chief Ray Vetter and Monsignor Jerome Schmidt were the villains in the twenty-six-year delay of justice from my aunt.

Not my words, sworn testimony at the trial.

And today, looking at this and still living this, it has to do with the public signs and other public tributes to one of these men that was instrumental in delaying justice for two decades.

And that man is Monsignor Jerome Schmidt.

So as I conclude, I pray that politics will be removed from this discussion.

I pray that religious bias will be removed from this discussion.

And I pray that simply this discussion will be about what is the right thing to do, and about the facts.

So finally, I pray that the city of Toledo will remove all the public signs and the public tributes to Monsignor Jerome Schmidt.

That have disrespected my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul for years, many years.

And thank you so very much again for for listening to us and uh giving us this platform.

And now I turn it over to Claudia Versalotti.

Thank you.

First, I want to thank you for hearing us.

We've spent twenty years trying to get that public street sign and other tributes to Monsignor Schmidt removed.

And I understand there wasn't a formal board of honor until the last few years, but we have literally gone to every mayor's office since the conviction, and we've heard excuse after excuse, ranging from political to absurd, to not wanting to jinx the mud hens when they were having a particularly good year.

And we stand before you today because who we honor matters, and don't we all need to be on the right side of history?

In 1980, as Lee testified, the uh Sister Margaret Ann Paul was murdered on April 5th, and that date is significant, and it's significant to the sign that now honors the man that helped delay justice for the Paul family, the mercy nuns, and the community at large when a now convicted murderer was allowed to roam the streets for over 24 years until he was arrested.

At the time in 1980, Toledo police interviewed over 250 people in the weeks that followed what was touted as Toledo's most notorious murder of a mercy nun.

The first of its kind, I might add, the first Catholic diocesan priest ever to be charged with murdering a mercy nun happened right here in Toledo, Ohio, when she was stabbed with Father Robinson's letter opener 31 times.

He raised and lowered his hand over her lifeless body thirty-one times, so really 62 times on Holy Saturday.

And her crime, she gave her life to God.

She was preparing for Easter Sunday service on Holy Saturday that morning.

Commonly referred to in the diocese as the point person or go-to person, intervened in an unofficial role.

This was not his role.

But Monsignor Schmidt at the time was known as somebody that could get things done in the Toledo Catholic diocese if money needed to be raised, if kids needed to be helped.

I mean, Monsignor Schmidt was a go-to person, and I'm sure we're going to hear today from people that will talk about all the wonderful things that he's done, and we're not here to dispute any of those except this.

We expect good things of priests that serve our community, and of course, of the Monsignor.

And we know and we appreciate his contributions to Mud Hens Baseball.

But this isn't about Mud Hens baseball.

This is about interfering and intervening, interfering and intervening in a murder investigation and helping it grind to a halt in three weeks flat.

I sat too in the trial every single day, and I watched the testimony of seasoned law enforcement detective Art Marks and Lieutenant William Keena with 52 years of combined police experience as detectives.

Their anger and their frustration was palpable even in 2006.

Twenty-six years later, after her murder, they were visibly upset.

I was fortunate to speak with both of them after the trial on a few different occasions, and they were very clear about what they testified in their unrefuted testimony that they had their prime suspect, Monsignor.

I'm sorry, they had their prime suspect, Father Gerald Robinson.

They had recovered the murder weapon in his apartment.

He had lied to law enforcement, telling them that a somebody confessed the murder to him, so thus he couldn't say who did it, and then rescinded that.

Suddenly there was a knock at the door, and appeared there was Henry Herschel, the defense counsel for Father Gerald Robinson, Deputy Chief, Police Chief Ray Vetter, and Monsignor Jerome Schmidt.

The lieutenant was made to get up and leave his own interrogation and stand outside of his own interrogation, which was uncommon, absolutely unheard of, as they testified at the trial in 2004, when Art Marks, the detective returned with paper to finish interrogating, they were both made to stand outside the interrogation room for a period of five to ten minutes, and when the door opened, what had been touted as Toledo's most notorious murder of that time was effectively over the investigation.

Father Robinson was free to leave, and the entire case ended in three weeks flat.

And it laid the evidence, laid in a file box drawer for the next 24 years.

A shining moment in our city, the Mud Hens, something that promotes inclusivity, something people can get behind, and something the whole family can participate in.

And down there, along a public street sign voted on by Toledo City Council of that time, is a sign dedicated to Monsignor Jerome Schmidt, dedicated on the anniversary of her murder.

It doesn't get much worse than that.

Scarcely a month went by when you didn't see something in newspaper print or on the radio regarding national news and local news regarding the clergy's sexual abuse scandal.

Father Robinson was always rumored to be the priest that got away with it.

When Jane Doe came before the Toledo Catholic Diocese Review Board, and she testified and implicated among others in satanic ritual abuse, Father Gerald Robinson.

When that news came forward, the Toledo Catholic Diocese response was they issued a letter through their lawyer, Tom Plett's, the same lawyer that was involved in 1980 when this case was first going on, and Father Ray Fisher, as he writes the bishop and advises him daily of progress on the case.

The same lawyer that was involved then, not Father Robinson's counsel, but the diocese counsel is now sending effectively not one, but two cease and desist letters to his own review board saying, no, no, do not go to the police and prosecutor, it's already been done.

Well, the math wasn't mathing, and we knew it.

And all across the state of Ohio, different grand juries were convening and investigations, but nothing here.

And we knew this was too big, and we knew that the cease and desist letters sure seemed like the actions of a decidedly desperate legal counsel.

With that, I took those letters to the Ohio Attorney General's office.

I went there multiple times.

I sat down, I gave them those letters that were cease and desist, I gave them other documents, I gave them Jean Doe's documents, and they came and they came calling on the Lucas County prosecutor's office.

And shortly thereafter, after 24 years, a real investigation into the murder of Sister Margaret Ann Paul was done.

And the Lucas Julia Bates office, Lucas County prosecutor, uh Dean Mandros led the case.

Uh detectives Steve Forrester and Tom Ross led the investigation, and they obtained the first conviction of a Toledo Catholic diocesan priest, the first diocesan priest in the country to murder a Catholic nun.

It made local, national regional, national, and international news.

There have been books on this, there it's been the subject of documentaries, and as we are on the 20th anniversary of her murder, Channel 11 has done a documentary.

That sign down there, that public street sign dedicated to Monsignor Jerome Schmidt, has become a source of pain and horror in the survivor community because it emboldens wrong behavior and its presence, even the appearance of impropriety, should warrant its removal.

The testimony of Art Marks and Lieutenant Keena was unrefuted on the record.

They were very clear in 2006 about the involvement of Monsignor Jerome Schmidt and how inappropriate that was.

We need to wrap this up pretty quickly.

I am wrapping it up.

Okay.

Who we honor matters.

Public honors, whether it's a formal recognition or community event, they affirm worth and they send a nod of approval in the community.

And it's important that we honor people who do great acts, but not when they also do horrible things that delay justice for Sister Margaret Ann Paul's family and the community at large for over 26 years.

And so we renew our request before you, the Board of Honor, that you recommend that that sign finally come down, that there has to be somebody more fitting and deserving of such an honor than someone that obstructed a murder investigation and delayed justice for for over two decades.

We all need to be on the right side of history on this, and it is never too late to do the right thing.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

We have copies of our testimony for all of you.

Is there anyone here who would like to speak against this proposal?

Thank you.

My name is Tom Antonini.

I'm general counsel for the Diocese of Toledo.

And I'd like to read a short statement on behalf of the diocese.

The diocese of Toledo stands behind Monsignor Jerome Schmidt as an honored Toledo citizen and worthy of acknowledgement.

No competent authority, no competent authority has ever suggested that Monsignor Schmidt engage in any wrongdoing or otherwise acted inappropriately.

Any accusation against him today is based on supposition with no basis in fact.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Jim Vetter.

My comments in no way are uh meant to disparage the life and the service that Sister Margaret Ann provided to the community.

Very well read by her nephew on her accomplishments.

Um the other second speaker talked about uh the uh trial itself and the investigation.

I just want to give a different perspective, and it's pretty well chronicled in the book that was written associated with the murder and the subsequent cold case, the book Sin, Shame, and Secrets.

It does describe the marathon sessions that the Toledo police detectives were having with the only suspect at the time, Father Robinson, trying to get him to confess to the murder.

And Deputy Chief Ray Vetter brought Monsignor Schmidt in as a asked a favor to have him talk to Father Robinson, try to get more information, try to calm things down and get a confession from Father Robinson.

That's what occurred that day during that uh follow-up to the to the uh investigation.

Um the idea that Monsignor and Chief Vetter conspired to cover that up to save face for the Catholic Church, and Father Robinson is flat out wrong.

Um, when Chief Vetter retired from the police department in 1986, the Blade had a nice article and they had interviewed him, they asked him what is what was his biggest disappointment in his career.

And his reply immediately was the failure to to convict the murder and find out for sure who did that murder back in April of 1980.

And in the Blade article, he's quoted as saying it's especially perplexing because we believe we know committed the crime, but we were never able to come up with enough evidence to arrest anyone.

She devoted her life to the service of the Lord and someone killed her viciously.

I've talked to Chief Butter, as has my sister who's here at Jackie, many times back then and subsequently when the cold case uncovered further evidence or DNA and other uh forensic uh evidence to uh subsequently convict Father Robinson, and over and over he alluded to the reason that Monsignor Schmidt was brought in was to try to get the confession from Father Robinson, not to cover it up.

Uh the legacy of Monsignor Schmidt is we got we could talk about that all day, but I won't, but it's all it's mentioned his uh contribution to bringing the mud ends back downtown, which was a great effort, but also his contribution to the Catholic Youth Organization and the uh what he did for all the young young adults and children over the years is one of the best organizations in Ohio at the time, and that's part of his legacy also.

Um so again, in closing, I appreciate this other perspective, but the fact you got to remember too here, this wasn't just any other individual that that was murdered.

This was a Catholic nun.

So the fact that the thought is that the priest and the and the police department would cover that up is just it's it's it's wrong.

Thanks for letting me give my perspective.

Thank you very much.

Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in the audience, either for or against this proposal?

State your name, please again.

Again, my name is Stephanie Russia from Fremont, Ohio.

I'm a part of the diocese of Toledo.

Uh, my husband and I have five children.

I have gone to daily mass since I was 27 years old.

I'm 66.

So I'm a part of the Catholic Church.

When I watched Spotlight, which is shows the abuse, the scandal of the priest abusing, okay, when I I that was one thing.

Then my husband and I read the book written about Sister Margaret and this happening, this satanic ritual happening.

And if if you haven't, if you haven't read the book by David Yankee, who um it's it's very clear right away that of he was guilty, and that um Jerome Schmidt was um guilty of keeping that from going to trial and for Gerald Robinson to be out and about doing harm.

He didn't just, you know, he didn't just was cured of whatever problem he had, he was out and about in the community.

So um and then also you know what um WTOL did.

I watched then the interviews with David Yankee, and so if you if you haven't seen those, you you should really watch that before you really make a decision because it is without a doubt, um, what what Lee Paul said and um I'm sorry, Claudia, it it's without a doubt, it's it's true.

So um hopefully, you and there was one other person who wanted to speak.

Good afternoon.

My name is Andrea Luna.

I um retired from the Lucas County Sheriff's Office after 32 years of service.

My last 15 years was working as the Violence Against Women Act.

I mandated that grant right through here to county commissioners for about 15 years, and I was sitting home and I saw this case and it strike me oddly that Sister Mary Paul had no voice and no justice.

Now, whether or not Monsignor Smith's intention was not to interfere with justice, he did though.

He stopped that investigation.

And as a law enforcement officer, I'm appalled that two sworn law officers under court court oath swore that he interfered.

What does that mean?

Well, DNA, some of it was destroyed.

Even Father Robertson didn't get his justice, because it they cleared him with that DNA, but now there's no more.

Justice stopped.

And then I guess what I want to say too is in 2024, the Toledo Blade wrote an article on Monsignor Doyle, with just two witnesses, not in a court, not under oath.

They settled out of court, and they removed his signs.

A lot of people say Father Robertson wasn't charged either.

What's the contradiction here?

Who we honor matters.

I speak for voices that are no longer here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else wishes to speak?

I'm going to open it up to the board members.

So please, I think this is important.

I think that we need to hear from the board members on this particular matter.

So we'll start down here.

Uh first I'd like to just thank everybody for for their testimony here today.

Um there's obviously a lot of conviction on both sides, but um as a as an attorney for the city of Toledo, um, my first question was I think is it Miss Luna?

Um, um the last person who spoke mentioned um and I was taking notes, so I my apologies here.

Someone's name was removed from signs before.

Was that no senior door?

The Catholic charity had been downtown.

You need to talk into the microphone, please.

Is that Catholic charity Handscape building downtown.

It's in the city of Toledo.

Yeah, city of Toledo.

And it was removed just on two witnesses' uh testimony stating that they were molested uh with the Anthony Dilla on on River Road, two came through, not under court of law, he was never charged, no criminal charges at all.

And the boy wrote the article in 2024, and uh I found the contradiction is too sworn, well respected law and law enforcement officers testify in a court of law.

That was a was that a city-owned building?

Yes, no, what are you talking about which building the I'm sorry, Mr.

Doyle?

Oh, that's the Catholic charity build um but not a city-owned building, okay.

So I just want to clarify on that, thank you.

Okay.

Um one other question I have for perhaps the the board at larger, maybe Clerk Gibbons, um, not to put you on the spot, but um since this board's been in existence since 2023, but we've met just two times, I believe.

Sorry, I'm gonna give it a minute.

Um, sorry, what was the question?

It's okay.

Uh I was just giving you a second.

Um since we've only been this board has only been in existence three times, but met just two times, is that correct?

Correct.

Um we've only considered four matters before this particular one, I believe.

I think there were three in the last maybe, maybe like a handful.

Okay.

My point is we have yet to consider repealing any any for right.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Um in the past, this is a resolution from this is a sign from 2020 2002.

Is that correct?

The okay.

Do we have any resolution by any chance that um we can look at that, you know, going back to the original signage, and then in other words, was can we find the resolution that originally was voted on by this by this city council to make this designation and also has there ever been repeals, if you will, of signs or city owned buildings that would normally fall under the guise or scope of this board if it you know you need to before the existence of it.

Since this board has been in existence, there's not been one.

I'm pretty sure I can ask Gary, we have taken signs down before, correct?

Not that I know of.

For that purpose, or yeah, uh because there's some reason that need to be taken down.

Okay, um, I do have not in my possession at this moment.

I can get it to you.

The ordinance that name the streets, it was when the opening of the mud hens occurred, all four were named, all four streets were named at the same time.

So I can get that in the future.

Okay.

Comment.

I have no other further questions.

Questions or no or no comments.

I guess um my view on this would be that it's very hard for this at this time, you know, so many years long since, for uh a board of community and and city officials to adjudicate this case.

You know, I'm I I know that you say that there's books that say this is true and that this is this has been stated that that I think you did say that this it's true.

It's true that the mine seniors stepped in and and stopped this um case from going forward, but as I understand it, there were three people in that room, and all three of them are no longer with us.

So and one of them contended sometime later to his family that you know that was not what the Mun Senior did.

Um I yes, it it matters who we honor.

It definitely matters who we honor, and I I have been a public spokes I've spoken out publicly for removing Les Wexander's name from buildings at Ohio State because it's ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

Yes, it matters who we we honor but I just don't know that we at this point as a board can investigate this matter and know what happened between those three people in that room so many years ago um that that's my personal view of this um and I'm not a member of the diocese I'm not speaking as a as a as a member of the diocese I'm speaking as somebody who looks at this matter and says there's just a lot we don't know we don't know despite you know all of the years of investigation those three people the only people who know what went on in that room that night and they are not here to tell us so yes.

Yes I would just like to interject on this as um as I sit and listen and as a council person um this is the reason why this board was developed because council members were getting the request for so many um wanting honorary streets streets named after persons living and we felt that one time we're going to be dealt with just what we're dealing with right now and so that's why this board is is here because we don't want to have to deal with this issue of taking down somebody's name that years ago people believed that they were um um deemed honorary but then as life goes on and truths come out that they're not deemed honorary so I just wanted to let you know that this is why this board is so new and this is a complicated um area right here the board is to make the recommendation to council and then council we have the job to then decide discuss investigate whether or not this will happen okay I I just want to uh explain that because a lot of people don't even know why this board was developed and and what goes on and this board is new I have no idea either have we ever um taken back a name of a a street of somebody that was honored years ago I don't have that I'm going to ask and this isn't on a council meeting but I'm going to ask as a uh as a referral that we investigate and see has that ever happened have we ever pulled back or taken down a name of a person that was honored and then found out later that they dishonored their name in the city of Toledo and so I would request that this board in not making a recommendation you would not be doing your job so um or you can recommend it and I'm gonna I'm gonna refer I'm gonna go to my clerk as to how we can move on this not in present time because I think we need to do some some investigating on some things and looking at this and not making a decision right now on whether we take it down or whether we not and send it to counsel.

I that would be my recommendation for the board that we do a little bit more investigating on the history or have we ever done this or how does it go?

Because this is very important to families, to the diocese, to the community that they deemed this gentleman honored to be honored at the Mud Hand Stadium, and then others that spoke against it.

We need to look at this.

This is a very delicate situation, and I don't think this needs to be decided on today.

Well, I I don't I just I don't mean to to question, but but it is not decided on today.

We would just make a recommendation, then then it would be up to counsel as I understand it to do the investigation that you are that you are suggesting.

Yes.

Um yeah, in the interest of um, I my line of questioning kind of goes along the lines of what uh council member uh Susanna McPherson is uh getting to.

Um it's kind of a case of first impression here.

We don't know, we haven't dealt with, I mean, frankly, every single recommendation to this board so far has been one that didn't have opposition.

That's not the case here.

We're talking about repeating.

Revealing something that's been around for 24 years.

There's you know, just the the magnitude um of this decision kind of uh you know it's gonna set a precedent as well.

So with that in mind, um, and probably a little more fact-finding is necessary from a I mean I can speak for myself.

I'm well aware of this um this uh tragedy that occurred, but I'm not well versed.

I haven't read all the books that people here have read.

I'm not family members with some of the people involved.

So with with all that said, um I would respectfully request that this be deferred to a future date, certainly for this board to consider um where we have a little bit more time to digest what we've heard today, and um then we can uh hopefully provide a recommendation um either to approve deny or approve with modifications at that time.

So what further what further information would you request?

Well, as uh as I asked um Clerk Gibbons, perhaps uh the authorizing ordinance or resolution from twenty two thousand two, which would probably provide some testimony as to, you know why uh Monsignor Schmidt was um dedicated in the first place, looking into what what if any have been repealed as far as office buildings, um, signage, et cetera, in the city of Toledo.

Um we don't really know that I don't have the institutional knowledge of that.

No one can speak to that right now.

Um, and honestly, just time to digest some of the stuff that we we've heard here today.

Ask additional questions.

I think maybe if this board is a little more prepared to ask some follow-up questions, it's it's a lot to to digest given the fact that um in the past we've only dealt with kind of more positive.

Well well, again, I I would just say that it's not this board's responsibility to adjudicate this court case.

It's not our responsibility to figure out what the facts of the case were.

Our responsibility is to figure out or is to decide if Monsignor Schmidt's name should remain on a street based upon evidence of uh of 30 years ago.

And I don't I I understand that you want to look at the original resolution to see what exactly was the reason that Monsignor Schmidt was was honored in this way, but I do not think it is our our job to try to go back through all of the evidence, court cases, trials, uh uh you know, testimony, uh, to try to figure out what happened.

That's really beyond our the scope of our responsibility, I believe.

And so if if you would like to delay it to look at the resolution to see if the things that were said about Monsignor Schmidt um are worthy of the of the street being named for him, um we we can do that.

Yeah, I I think part of it too is just what procedurally we wanna it's let's just take the size of this decision out of it and just think about how we want to decide on what should be repealed and and what that process looks like.

I think that's an important piece of it too.

It's not so much the I'm not asking people to reopen the cases necessarily, but I for one have had a chance to read this just while here, and I've read some of the emails that have trickled in over the course of the last week.

Um, but I think it's important that we do this in a way that's kind of clean for other cases.

Okay, so you wanted to develop a procedure by which we as a board would then vote to remove a process for removal of names.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah.

I mean that's one of the benefits of of taking some time to defer it is is what I should say.

Um so are we are we in agreement that you would like to delay the vote on this until I don't think we have enough information?

Do we have enough information?

Do we have enough information?

You think we have enough information?

It doesn't sound like we do.

It doesn't sound like we have enough information.

No, because I'm confused.

Okay.

So you vote you you would agree to delay this this until we get more information.

Everybody's clear about what we're voting on.

Okay.

Is there a length of time upon which you would like to meet again since this is only the second time we've been needed to meet because it's always based upon application.

This is not a normally scheduled meeting.

It's strictly that.

We can do 30 days, we can do 60 days.

I guess that depends on Julie how long it would take you to research this for us.

Well, I mean, I'm getting the ordinance from the initiation.

That's not an issue.

I think we can find out about the removal within periods of time.

So 30 days, I think 30 and then I think somebody's 30 days.

I'm sorry, I couldn't.

I think 30 days.

I don't know that it would take much longer than that.

30 days.

You know you know what the process is and what we have to what we have to gather.

So it shouldn't take 60 days.

That's a long time.

Okay.

So do I hear someone make a motion that we delay um consideration of this matter for 30 days?

Yeah, I'll make that motion.

And second.

Oh, sorry.

Just so everyone knows, I need to check our official calendar for these chambers to make sure they have not been taken.

So therefore, we will post this again a new meeting.

It'll be at least a two-week notice.

It'll be a notice.

Anyone who sent in an email or sent us a letter, I will be happy to reach out to you personally and let you know of the rescheduled date and time.

That is if we vote to reschedule.

We have a motion, a second.

Sorry.

That's okay.

All right.

Do you want to call the roll?

And and this this is uh a motion in favor of delaying this um for further investigation of the matter.

Mr.

Spittler.

Yes.

Ms.

Floyd?

No.

Ms.

Collins?

Yes.

Mr.

Stucky?

Yes.

Motion to defer carry.

Then um uh the clerk of council will um reschedule uh or schedule us uh uh another meeting on this matter with in within either 30 or 60 days.

Correct.

I'm gonna work on 30 days.

Is there any other business for this board?

Not a entertainment a motion to adjourn.

So second, all is over.

Thank you all very much for your passionate testimony.

Thank you.