It's now two o'clock and we will begin this meeting of the uh City Toledo Honor Board.

Again, my name is Barbara Floyd.

I'm a citizen appointee to this board, and I've asked to chair uh the board.

Um this is um the matter before the board is the removal of the from the table of a motion to um to remove Monsignor Jerome Schmidt's name from um uh the City Street, so honored.

Um I will give people um opportunity to each side the opportunity to speak for ten minutes, and then if there are other people who um would like to come forward uh in support or against whatever has been stated, those people will receive three minutes to speak.

I would ask that if you gave testimony last time that you focus your remarks on anything new or additional that you did not uh mention last time because um I think it proves us to um not repeat ourselves and to um keep this um discussion respectful and moving forward and um hopefully um towards a conclusion by the end of this meeting.

So with that said, um I would ask um uh the side um oh I'm sorry.

Floyd here, Fosna, Spittler, here.

Stucky here, Collins, Aikman, Williams here, thank you.

Form present.

Okay, so um if whichever side would like to begin, um I will ask you to start the clock for ten minutes.

We received the application, so if you would like to start because you're sure application, whoever wants to present, please just state your name for the record.

Nephew of Sister Margaret Ann Paul, and when we were here uh a few weeks ago, I gave you a rundown of of the sister's life and what what she had done and what what she meant to this community and Toledo.

Um, she was a very kind gentlewoman, and and one of her top uh jobs I guess she had here in Toledo, she was administrator of uh St.

Charles Hospital in Toledo here.

She's also the director of nursing at uh Mercy School of Nursing.

So she was very very involved with with Toledo in the area here.

So um for for many years, Monsignor Jerome Schmidt was a very powerful and influent influential person in Toledo, uh particularly in 1980, and I think we've established that before.

Um there's no doubt that uh Monsignor Schmidt did many positive things for the city of Toledo.

Less than three weeks after the murder of my aunt, and five days after Monsignor Jerome Schmidt and Deputy Chief Ray Vetter abruptly stopped the murder investigation of Father Gerald Robinson.

There was two letters written by Father Ray Fisher.

Father Ray Fisher was was the bishop's secretary, and he was an administrative manager of the Diocese of Toledo.

And these letters were written to the bishops, including Auxiliary Bishop James Hoffman.

They were entered into evidence in 19 uh in 2006 at the trial, and it was state exhibit 180.

So you have copies of those letters and the translation or of those because they're a little hard to read some of them.

So Bishop Hoffman's the same person the days after the murder convinced Peggy Lester to remain silent.

And Peggy Lester was the head of the physical therapy department at Mercy Hospital in 1980.

She saw Father Robinson that morning come out of the chapel and go around the corner and and leave.

She saw him at that time.

And that was at the time frame that the murder took place.

So you have a copy of the sworn statement taken by uh Detective Tom Ross, and that didn't happen until 2012.

And I won't go into all that.

You have that information as to why that was delayed.

She swore to Bishop Hoffman that she would not tell.

The letters from Father Fisher to Bishop Hoffman show that the police department was keeping the diocese informed.

They were working together on Father Robinson's behalf.

There's a few excerpts I'll give you from those letters, and you do have those.

Monsignor Schmidt arranged legal consul for Father Robinson.

These are right from these letters.

Ray Vetter and Mons told Monsignor Schmidt he was going to have to take the case to the prosecution soon, the prosecutor.

Ray Vetter told Monsignor Schmidt the police department had remained silent about their suspicions.

Monsignor Schmidt and Herschel, which is uh was Father Robinson's lawyer at the time, Henry Herschel, called the police and got them to agree not to contact Father Gerald Robinson.

And the last one is it's stated in these letters that they are confident that Attorney Herschel will handle things well, particularly the police.

They knew they had a problem.

Well, for many years, uh Deputy Chief Ray Vetter was a powerful and influential person in Toledo in the Toledo Police Department, particularly in 1980.

From this is from the uh 2006 murder trial that I'll be speaking about now.

So we have the we have Lieutenant William Keena's unrefuted sworn testimony at the trial, and you have all that, so I won't spend the time to go through all that.

You have that all in front of you.

We have Sergeant Art Mark's unrefuted sworn testimony at the trial.

We both were very passionate uh at the time, and and still they were still very unhappy with what took place 26 years prior.

Both Keene and Marks had clear memories of Monsignor Jerome Schmidt, Deputy Chief Ray Vetter, and the diocese and attorney Henry Herschel stopping the murder investigation and walking out of the police building with Father Gerald Robinson.

Very vivid memories of them stopping it and taking Father Robinson out of the police building, and you have copies of the excerpt from the trial transcripts.

There's 4,000 pages in the trial transcript.

So that's why you have excerpts.

And they may all be true.

He did many good things for over the years for the diocese and for the city of Toledo.

No one's disputing all the good things that Monsignor Jerome Schmidt or Deputy Chief Ray Vetter did over the years.

Not disputing that at all.

But everything changed on April 19th, 1980.

Deputy Chief Ray Vetter brought Monsignor Jerome Schmidt to the police station.

That's in the trial transcript.

They stopped the interrogation of Father Gerald Robinson.

They left the police station with Father Gerald Robinson.

That was the end of the investigation into the murder of my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul.

Stopped it in his tracks.

Father Robinson was free, back on the streets for 24 years until he was his arrest in 2004.

So almost finished.

So my statements today are not just my thoughts, not just my assumptions, not my emotions, not just words from the book or a magazine or a newspaper, and not just something I heard on a podcast or that I saw on TV.

Although my statements are well documented in all the aforementioned media outlets, you can find them.

You can readily find all these statements and the document packets that you were given.

That's in there.

So these are facts.

What I've talked about is sworn testimony that I personally witnessed at the trial in 2006.

The trial was three weeks long, and I sat through every day of the trial.

The criminal act of stopping the murder investigation and the criminal act of covering up the murder of my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul, overshadows all the good things that Monsignor Schmidt did in his lifetime.

Again, not challenging the good things, but uh it only takes one incident to uh overshadow everything you've done for the positive.

So, in closing, I want to say it's never too late to do the right thing.

I ask again, please remove the Monsignor, Jerome Schmidt Way signs and honors.

These signs have disrespected my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul, my family, and all crime victims for over 24 years.

My aunt's sister Margaret Ann Paul spent 53 years of her life as a nun serving God and serving the people of Toledo.

My aunt deserves better than this.

We all do.

My family has suffered through this tragedy since 1980.

So please pass this request on to the city council with a recommendation that Monsignor Schmidt's sign be removed for all the reasons in the packets that you were given, the package you were handed for my aunt and for all violent crime victims.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Is there anyone here to speak?

In opposition to the proposal to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name.

Again, please keep your comments to 10 minutes.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Tom Antonini.

I'm general counsel for the Diocese of Toledo.

Since no new material or relevant evidence has been offered following this board's initial hearing on May 7, the position of the Diocese of Toledo remains the same.

The Diocese of Toledo stands behind Monsignor Jerome Schmidt as an honored Toledo citizen and worthy of acknowledgement.

No competent authority has ever suggested that Monsignor Schmidt ever engaged in any wrongdoing, did anything illegal or otherwise acted inappropriately.

Any accusation based against him now is on is based on supposition and hypothesis with no foundation in fact.

Those proposing removal of the street sign honoring Monsignor Schmidt conflate the actions of Father Robinson with those of Monsignor Schmidt, and they continue to do that.

Anyone accused of a crime has a right to an attorney, the right against self-incrimination, and the right to a defense.

Because so many of the people that were involved in this case are already deceased.

We need to affirm that even the dead have the right to their good name.

Monsignor Jerome Schmidt, what he was alleged to have done is no different than what any good person would do for a family member, a friend, or neighbor accused of a crime.

Innuendo and faulty reasoning do not negate a man's good deeds, and this honor board should not tolerate such a dubious and insidious attack.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So, in support, we'll give you three minutes.

Is that sufficient?

It should be.

Okay.

Thank you.

My name is Jim Vetter.

Ray Vetter was my father.

Uh it's very upsetting listening to individuals disparage Monsignor Schmidt and Ray Vetter.

There's no doubt that Sister Margaret Ann was brutally murdered in 1980, and that Gerald Robinson was the primary and only suspect.

And there's no doubt she was a great lady.

There's no disputing that.

Major disagreement is the role that Monsignor Schmidt played while Robinson was being held and interrogating by police detectives.

As previously communicated, our dad told us repeatedly over the years that following marathon sessions with the detectives were getting nowhere trying to get a confession or gather further information from Robinson.

And my dad requested that Monsignor come in, meet with Robinson to try to get further information and try to get a confession.

He was the only suspect.

There was no contention at that.

At that point, the police did not have enough evidence to arrest Robinson.

The meeting concluded as described.

Robinson was released from custody.

Plausible explanation, it has been discussed, is that the Robinson's lawyer did what he was obligated to do.

They did not have enough evidence to charge him, they had to release him at that time.

To make the allegation that Ray Vetter and Monsignor conspired to let Robinson go is ludicrous.

Important to note that the decision to arrest or release any murder suspect, it's not solely the police department, it's not the police chief.

It's a conjunction of the prosecutor's office with the police department.

Do they have enough evidence to charge Robinson?

At that time, back in 1980, they did not.

Ray Vetter, who passed away 15 years ago, by all accounts at a stellar 34 year career with the Toledo Police Department.

A man of integrity repeatedly stated his biggest disappointment in his career was not being able to find to convict a suspect in the murder of Sister Margaret Ann.

And Monsignor Schmidt, who passed away 29 years ago, priests who dedicated his life to the youth of Northwest Ohio and Toledo, requested to come back in in 1980 to try to help solve the murder, trying to help.

Now he's being disparaged and his reputation, you know, tarnished for trying to help.

It was what he what he did most of his life.

Very sad and actually makes me very angry.

We respectfully request honor board and Toledo Circuit Council make their decision based on facts, not hearsay and not speculation.

The people involved in that meeting and that room, they're all passed away.

None of them are around to give testimony today.

Thanks for listening.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to come forward with uh for three minutes?

Either on either side of this issue.

Sir, you can pull the microphone down so that we can.

There you go.

My name is Father Steve Stanberry, a priest of the Catholic Diocese of Toledo.

And by the way, a good friend of mine is Jerry Hilton, who is a nephew of Ray Vetter, and he's on our side.

Against the cover-up on molesters and won a national award.

I'm interviewed in a movie that won the Sundance Film Festival and almost won the Academy Award.

I was one of the five nominees.

So I have been dealing with corruption in this diocese.

So when they come forward and start saying things, I want to read this letter that I wrote to you already.

Because I let you um take everything Dias's officials say with a cum gramisalis, as we say in Latin, with a grain of salt.

I am a retired Toledo Catholic priest.

There's our name to hear that Sister Margaret L.

Paul was murdered.

I was a deacon doing an internship in Sandusky, Ohio at St.

Mary's when it happened.

I still remember walking into the kitchen at the rectory where two associate pastors were talking about her murder.

I didn't know her, but I was stunned that a nun would be murdered in a Toledo chapel on Holy Saturday.

In 2002, I began speaking out publicly against the cover up of local clergy.

So there's a history of cover-up of criminals in this diocese.

In 2004, Toledo Place Sergeant Steve Forrester and detective Tommy Ryder came to Lee Parish in Ova Very, Ohio, and I talked to them in person and by phone several times.

The detectives had asked the bishop's office for Father Robinson's personnel file after his arrest, and were given only three pages.

Sergeant Forrester and detective writer found out from working with police in the Cleveland Diocese that subsecreta or under the secret files existed.

Subsecreto means under the secret.

And when they found out that that was really a thing, they obtained two nock search warrants and returned to the chancery where diocesan officials quickly surrendered more than 135 additional pages about Father Robinson.

This was our local and national news, including the Nancy Grace show.

And she covered portions of the trial while Court TV was in Toledo following the Robinson murder case.

Shortly thereafter, Bishop Leonard Blair held a QA with Q session with priests.

So your time is quickly moving along.

So please wrap it up.

Oh, I'll just read this after Bishop Leonard Blair had a Q with priests, which he openly questioned the integrity of the police to us at the meeting in his brain about how the diocese was cooperative and uh with the police.

I raised my hand and asked, if you were so cooperative, why did the police have to come back a second time with search warrants before you quickly handed over 135 more pages?

I have your letter entered into the packet of information.

If you were cooperative, why didn't you get the whole kitten caboodle in the first place?

There's a lot more.

Thank you very much.

Let me say one thing.

The Father Ray Fisher, the Chancellor was mentioned.

Um his nephew who is a priest, uh molested a girl in Parisburg, Ohio.

Yeah, that's that's irrelevant to the issue.

I just want to show this the character of what people from this diocese.

Thank you very much.

And uh Ray Fisher beat me off for a parish.

Okay, is there anyone else who has would like from the audience would like to speak for three minutes?

Good afternoon.

My name is Claudia Versati.

I'm with the survivors network of those abused by priests and other church leaders.

We came before you a month ago because you were the first opportunity we've ever had to present.

We've been trying since 2006, since all of the information came forward in the trial.

Like likely Paul, I sat at the trial every single day and I watched the trial unfold.

I watched Kina and Marx testify on the record.

Their testimony was unrefuted.

They were not impeached.

After the trial, I talked to them, both of them several times over the course of a period of time to really understand the trial and all that it entailed.

I still had their phone numbers in my cell phone, and they're long gone.

That's how important their contributions to this case really were.

And if you have that in the child transcript, I want to address what Mr.

Antini has addressed before your board today.

You have my packet.

He said this is supposition, and that there's no new evidence.

The direct testimony of Marx and Kenya is not supposition, it's in the child transcript.

And in order to believe what Mr.

Antony would have you believe, you have to also discount the court that did not impeach them, the jury that did not impeach them, their credibility.

You have to discount Julia Bates, who has written a letter in support of what we've come here to do today.

It's also in your packet.

You have to discount the investigator, Tana Ross, who also has written a letter, who's the lead investigator on this case.

Not one, not two, not three, but four book authors that wrote on this because all of them reported the family information over and over again.

And I know chairwoman Floyd that last time you were very concerned about what happened behind those closed doors, and with all due respect, it doesn't matter what happened behind his closed doors.

What matters is when the door opened.

That case was over in three weeks flat.

What was tabletist Toledo's most notorious murder investigation, and I'm watching the clock.

Was over in three weeks flat.

And for 20 years, we've been trying to get this sign down.

And we've got nothing but knuckles and elbows.

The evidence exists.

It exists in the trial transcript, it exists in those packets.

The evidence is clear, although it's it exists in Ray Fisher's letters.

You also have to discount Ray Fisher.

I know you've been watching the clock ever since I stood up.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else who would like to make any comments today?

Okay, I will ask each of the board members if they would like to make a statement or or comment.

Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity to let to let us speak.

And thank you for sharing this.

Um, I actually brought forth us having the board of honor just because um it uh this was actually my piece of legislation and bringing forth the board of honor.

So I appreciate going through the process.

Um and I appreciate all of you actually uh coming out and you know advocating for what you believe on both ends of it.

Um I have read through everything as a district council person, and I have reached out to the mud hands as well.

Um it's unfortunate of what has brought us here in the brutal death of the nun.

Um she shouldn't have died in that way by the hands of someone that was supposed to be a colleague.

Um, and we're here today.

My concerns is that um after reading through everything, I think that when we talk about Monsignor Smith, um, when I read the prosecutor's letter, she actually talked about the right to have legal counsel.

She said that they stopped it so that he can get legal counsel, um, which was well within his right.

So I think that I'm concerned that something is missing here that we're not talking about.

Um the guilty by association is what I think I'm hearing.

Um I hope that um everyone understands our role and how hard it is to have this role uh to decide to take someone's honor away.

So let's be clear.

This is a board that has to make a decision to remove a sign that was placed up years ago that we were not in these seats.

I wasn't anywhere near the seats, but I am very familiar with the story.

I hope you know we will definitely take in consideration everything that has been presented.

Um we have hundreds of documents that have been presented.

They are talk about the same thing.

We will not negate the fact that this was a brutal murder, and it was gruesome and it was horrific, and no one should have to die that way.

Um with that being said, I um think I'm ready for the motion to figure out what we're doing with this, but I'll leave this to the chair.

Do any of the other board members wish to speak?

Okay, I will um speak.

Um I think the statement was made that that prosecutor Bates' letter was in support of removing the the um the name from the street, and I have read that letter and I don't see that that statement of support.

I see merely a statement of fact of what she what happened at the time, which is that um that the um Monsignor came in, the the um interrogation was stopped, and um everyone left.

There was there's no there's doesn't seem to be a clear statement that of support within that letter.

Um I will again say as as the councilwoman says um what I believe is that whatever happened behind those closed doors, none of us, none of us will ever know.

And I have I'm trained as an historian, I depend upon fact, I depend upon documentation and not conjecture, not um this is what could have happened.

I think without anyone who is in that room still alive today who can tell us for sure what happened, it would be inappropriate for us to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name from the from the street.

Um that is my personal opinion.

I think that you can say that there's a lot of fact presented here in this many many pages of documents, but again, the very important fact, the most important fact, what happened in that room behind that closed door, we do not know.

And everything that comes after that is um in my mind supposition of what could have happened, but none of us, none of us know, and none of us will ever know what happened behind that closed door, and so um that is my statement on that.

So if none of the other members of the board want to make a statement, or um I guess we will be prepared to entertain a motion.

I entertain a motion from the board, um, since the recommendation is to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name from Monsignor Jerome Schmidt way.

Um the motion I think needs to be framed in that um way.

So I'll make a motion, I'll make a motion.

Um, does this board recommend that Toledo City Council remove Monsignor Smith's name from uh what is it here on?

From here on and clear, I think.

From Washington and Monroe.

Washington, Washington Monroe, St.

Clair and Monroe.

I mean Washington and Huron, right?

According to the ordinance.

Sorry, we're really um, it's I'm sorry, is Monroe and St.

Clair from Washington, yep.

So to remove from that street.

Is there a second to that motion?

I'll second that motion.

Okay, I will ask um Julie.

Are you serving as the roll call?

I'll ask uh uh Julie Gibbons to please call the roll.

Spitler, yes, in favor of removing?

Yes, Williams?

No.

Floyd?

No.

Stockey, yes, Fosna?

Yes.

Three votes carry for the removal of the sign recommendation to the full city council.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So the uh, did you have to begin with?

No, no, we read everything.

We did research.

But thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

But whatever.

I just wanted to know how to do her and it just said, I think.

And I I can appreciate that.

But it's an interview our story.

We have to tell.

You did a lot of good things.

And like I say, there was no question.

So anyway, but thank you for your questions.