Today is Wednesday, April 15th.

It's 10 30 a.m.

And we're at the urban and economic development committee meeting.

Welcome those of you joining us online and in the room.

First order of business is uh we called the meeting to order, second order of business.

Rezoning application Z7853 from RS3 to CH for property located north, north north and east of the northeast corner of Southwest Boulevard and West 38 place.

Requested by the Tulsa City Council, property owner, City of Tulsa in Council District 2 team APC voted 901 to recommend approval of the zoning.

And Susan Miller is so this isn't anything new.

Um I presented this for uh when you all were considering it for initiation and you initiated it.

This is something uh this is a piece of a parcel sort of along Southwest Boulevard Route 66 that currently houses the administrative offices for the Route 66 Main Street, it's zoned RS3, the highway zone RS3, which which never really matters what the highway zoned, but I think this was really caught up in that zoning.

It was been that way since 1970.

In order to facilitate a gift shop, um, which is something they want to get in place for the centennial, they need commercial zoning.

So that's what this request is for.

The 901, the one is is Genie Q because she recused herself because of her involvement in the you know community development funding for it.

So um, so anyway, it's really pretty straightforward, it just needs to be commercial, even to better facilitate what it's used for now, but especially for a gift shop.

Yes.

Um why is the property adjoining?

Why is that CG?

I don't know, that's been there a long time as well.

So there's we decided when we were kind of uh here, let's go.

Let's look here.

I'm just curious.

I mean, I've been over there.

I'm just curious.

Is there nothing there?

Oh, to the it's um, and that's the route that is the actual main street house.

Oh, okay.

Right, that's a parking lot or something.

Yeah, that's why I was confused.

I was like, I don't know how that goes.

Why is that commercial general?

I don't think there's anything there.

Yeah, not really.

But CGCH, they're very very close in what you can do, but we decided just to go ahead and go with CH since most of the property around it is CH.

Okay.

All right, any other questions?

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Uh Susan.

Item number three ordinance amending the Tulsa Revised Ordinances, Title V Boards, Commission and Committee Chapter 5, Greater Tulsa Area Indian Affairs Commission reorganizing for the reliable for the readability restructuring commission appointees in terms of providing for tribal designee from the Scotchy Creek Nation, the um Cherokee Nation and the O State Nation providing that the City of Tulsa Director of Travel Policy and Partnership for similar position in the evidence thereof shall be an exo non-voting member of the commission.

I don't think I recall your name, sorry.

Good morning, I'm Daniel Carter, the vice chair of the Greater Tulsa Area Indian Affairs Commission.

Thank you for having me here.

Would you like to speak to this or wouldn't it have to be helpful to set some context about if just for other folks the collection?

Yeah.

Um because I had spoken um maybe it was it last week that we met last.

I don't know what day it is.

Anyway, um, with a miss two week where we had a sorry I won't have a small big thing.

No, I'm day approved.

So um you we had this go through our committee table before, and we had it up for a vote at our last council meeting.

However, once um some of us had looked at it a bit more, we had more questions about that.

We I wish we'd caught up sooner for the committee meeting, and then I know you were out of town, right?

We were doing that last minute thing, so we apologize for the both delay because I I also know from the Title V end of things from one human rights commission how hard it is and helping state need is to work with everyone to even redraft these documents.

So we really appreciate you coming to join us.

But we had we had held it back where we got some answers from Amanda Swoke, but she really spoke to that um that's the vice chair was really best to kind of communicate and explain it because of the restructure.

Um we'd had questions about who this helped bring to the table or who it potentially left out, and it sounded like there were some really good explanations about how this really helped broaden and shore up the membership.

So if you wouldn't mind just explaining to us, you know, some of the shifts, it sounds like there's just some language cleanup here and what this changes or doesn't change relative to that.

I just think that would be really helpful.

We just all had context questions that I wish we'd caught when we had it on committee that first tied in.

Thank you for your patience with us as we've been back three as of this.

I'm I've been chair of the of the commission's bylaws committee for two or three years, and out of respect for your time, I won't go over all the discussions we've had in those two or three years, but I'm an attorney by day, and so when I started looking at the bylaws committee and we're considering amendments to the bylaws, it seemed to me that it was more appropriate to make those amendments in the actual ordinance, especially where parts of the bylaws weren't quite consistent with the ordinance.

So some of the requested bylaw changes I felt like weren't able to be made without admitting the ordinance.

But the ordinance itself, the reason the bylaws have so many provisions is because the ordinance itself was difficult to for commissioners to really understand and uh comprehend.

So they started putting those provisions in the bylaws, and when lay people you know interpret ordinances for the bylaws, there becomes inconsistencies.

So what my effort has been is to make the ordinance or uh uh structured in a way that the commissioners can read it and understand it without having to go to the bylaws, and then take some of the changes that were desired in the bylaws and move them to the ordinance.

Um so really it is a it's a restructuring and revision.

Some of the one of the primary changes that uh we wanted to make was instead of classifying tribes as organizational appointees, give them a um recognition as uh sovereign nations and uh ex officio voting position on the commission.

That way it's not up for appointment and reappointment uh every two or three years, understanding that the Osage Nation, the Cherokee Nation, the Muscogee Creek Nation are the nations with reservations in the Greater Tulsa area.

So those are the three tribes that were provided the ex officio positions.

Um we've had lengthy discussion about that.

To your point, uh, Councillor Bells, about last week.

There the current version of the ordinance says that to be a commissioner, you have to be a Native American ancestry or American Indian ancestry, and the bylaws say that you must be um enrolled in a in a tribe or have a CEI B card, which is a sort of the certificate degree of Indian blood.

And in the past, there have been an issue where someone just self-identified as being of Native American ancestry and served on the commission.

We the commission, this is before my time, but the commission later discovered this person wasn't enrolled and did not have American Indian ancestry, and um so to kind of add an extra step to confirm that an appointee because we don't make the appointments, it's obviously from the mayor with your confirmation and from the county.

We just want to have an extra step of confirming that someone is of American Indian ancestry.

So the bylaws were already changed to require the C DIV card or tribal enrollment card.

That part is just put into the uh do the ordinance as well.

So what's the uh councillor?

How did you determine they weren't?

I believe it was after the person passed away, and someone on the commission was responsible for sort of going and handling through their affairs and realized that they were not enrolled with the tribe they said that they're enrolled with.

Oh, did not have American Indian ancestry.

Okay.

Well, Councilor Paul Harper.

So, how do you determine American Indian ancestry?

Well, it's tied to uh federally recognized tribe in the proposed commission.

And then typically the tribe will confirm that a person is a descendant of someone that was on the doll's roles where they had their uh degree of Indian blood or their uh enrollment confirmed on the dolls rolls in 1906, and then even if they're not eligible to be enrolled with the tribe, you can still go to the Bureau of Indian Affairs and get a certified degree of Indian blood to show that your American Indian ancestry based upon the same process, or you would trace your lineage to someone that was on the doll's role and confirmed to be of American Indian ancestry.

But you can be on the doll's roles and not have blood.

Yes, it'll typically say that you do not have Indian blood if you're on dolls rolls, but don't uh have Indian blood, it will say what your degree of Indian blood is.

It might say adopted, or it might say freedmen yes, yeah.

Yeah, so it does specify whether you have Indian blood or not on the doll's roles.

So would I say in some cases not all?

Right.

Right.

Okay, so are freedmen excluded or not.

Because if they have American Indian ancestry on the doll's roles, then they're included.

If they do not have American Indian ancestry on the dolls' roles, like if it says no blood quantum zero, um, then they won't be eligible because they all have American Indian ancestry.

That's under the current language.

That's the current language.

Okay, so the current language is exclusionary that way, just to clarify the does the new language shift that no, it doesn't change that at all.

You're still required to have American Indian ancestry under the current ordinance, under the current bylaws, and under the proposed work.

What about if freedmen are recognized by the tribe?

Are they applicable?

Only if they have American Indian ancestry.

Okay, just check it, yeah.

Is that something you'd be amenable to to changing?

We've we've talked about this for these um this ordinance revision for two or three years, and it's never been discussed whether freedmen should be on the commission or not.

Um so I I can't speak for the commission on that.

I think that the way that it is and these proposed changes, it's not intended to be a policy documentary referendum on whether freedmen should be included in tribes or not.

It's it's a restructuring to help our to help reflect where our commission is today, to help move forward.

I think there's uh definitely vehicles for that discussion, um, whether it be within each tribe or in the tribal courts.

I don't I don't think that this is the vehicle to have that policy discussion.

My preference would be to amend the ordinance to allow the commission to operate as envisioned consistent with its its modern scope of work and our goals, and let those vehicles were determined whether freedmen should be enrolled in tribes, let those be the vehicles for that policy decision, not this uh ordinance.

Councillor Bangle?

All right, I haven't hopefully this doesn't sound silly.

So today, because we have like ancestry, we can do DNA tests, right?

And let's just say I went and had a DNA test and found was found to have some sort of Native American blood and but I couldn't trace my lineage.

Um I didn't have a roll number or anything of that nature.

So if that person isn't specifically identified with a specific tribe, how if they do have that does the commission find that val find like DNA testing valid, but without having a roll number in the same capacity that a freedman would be?

So the it's not really for the commission to decide, but tribes typically do not accept an ancestry DNA test as qualifying for enrollment in the tribe.

I don't think the ancestry DNA tests even go to a particular tribe.

I think it goes to region, you might be able to tell what tribe was in that region.

But um but if the tribes don't recognize that ancestry, then the commission won't.

We get deference to the tribes on determining their membership and who is of American Indian ancestry, and this was also through the long 20-year process of the dolls' roles and in federal law.

So I don't really think it's up for the to the commission to decide.

Hey, now tribes can recognize American Indian ancestry through a DNA test.

Um liaison between the city of Tulsa, the tribes and the tribal community, and I feel like it would be overstepping if we recognize someone as a member of a tribe when the tribe doesn't recognize that person.

Okay, but you're not stating that those DNA tests are invalid, right?

No, no, I think it's scientific.

I think that there's some legitimacy to it.

Absolutely, but I just don't think it's the commission's place as a liaison to determine who's eligible to be.

Yeah, I only asked that question because of the person that you referenced earlier who had been serving that didn't have any.

So I mean I'm just thinking through the different scenarios because I do know that people have supposedly taken those DNA tests and they couldn't identify specifically what tribe because their ancestry didn't have a role number.

Because I could tell you even in my own lineage, I had a grandparent who claimed they were you know of uh Indian ancestry.

I even have the application in the rejection number.

So you know, when I went and took that DNA test, zero.

So I was like the government was right back then.

So I'm just I just want to think through when we're excluding people, we're thinking of the different scenarios where people may not necessarily be able to find that role number because it was like you were talking about 1906 back at the turn of the century.

These are people that went through a process of the government of establishing themselves as part of a tribe.

So if the freedmen eventually are identified as tribal members, I would hope the commission would take some of these different scenarios into consideration in its membership.

Yes, and if a freedman has American Indian ancestry, yeah, yeah, maybe they're eligible.

But there was a there was a uh a process for getting on the doll's roles.

You had to apply, you had to say who your ancestors were, you had to bring in witnesses, there's an interview process.

If you're granted or denied, there's an appeals process.

And so I think that the drives out of the experience with discussions with the BIA is let's not try to second guess what was an onerous process that happened 130 years ago when we don't have the same information and ability to gauge whether someone was of American Indian ancestry or not when there's a process for that to play it out.

I appreciate that too, though.

Excuse me.

You can make that out being on the two.

Yeah, I think so.

Right?

Yeah.

Council Belly, I'll go finish.

Um I guess I'm curious, going back to the piece.

Sorry, I think I had an understanding, and maybe it might just probably my misunderstanding from um when I was asking some clarifying questions about this uh two weeks ago.

Um back to that piece about the ancestry versus like the official tribal agreement, because I I kind of had this takeaway, and I'm curious about if this language might be amenable or is feasible or anything like that about it, like if and when uh freedmen are permitted access, you know, as some of that's carrying out with some of these different nations right now.

When that happens, is there a way in the current language to create that space for those folks to be able to participate in the commission, or is that something the commission?

I know that there's a lot more dialogue there, but again, I know how labor-intensive it is to have this whole diverse group of people that have been appointed to you as long as you think your team and everyone together trying to model through these updates.

But I'm just curious about how simple it would be in the current draft to be able to create the space for hey, once people have the federal recognition for these tribes, can they participate, or is that something the commission?

I know you can't speak the language, but might be amendable to look at in the future.

I just wasn't sure what that looks like.

I didn't find out a layer said the legal language of all that.

I don't know how easy that is or not.

It would be it would be quite easy, and that's the benefit of having a restructure revision that makes sense.

Yeah, is that you could look at the current draft ordinance and say whether you like something or not and know exactly where the amendment would need to go.

Um I I work with uh a lot of tribes in my day job, and that's why I always try to do is make sure that they can amend the ordinance in a way that makes sense for them without them having to go to a lot of different parts of the ordinance, and this is set up in that way where changes could be made in the future, and of course it's up to the up to the city on the appointment what you what amendments you wanted.

These are just these are our recommendations.

Okay.

Um maybe this is a question for legal um related to this.

I just wasn't sure if there's we could look at like that amendment language of going because what you was just measuring now is it doesn't change that blood ancestry piece, but we could also add a clause in about you know when there's that recognition or something if they have a card, that also works.

Well, it it does say demonstrated by a tribal enrollment card or a CDM card.

So that already actually is there.

Well, it but it also adds that layer of Indian ancestry.

Um Caroline might have a thought on this.

You could approach it one of two ways.

Uh you could be explicit about it and say freedmen are recognized by a tribe that they'll be uh allowed to participate in their enrollment card will be sufficient regardless of ancestry.

Um or you could interpret it to say if they have an enrollment card or a C by it's easier than then they're eligible.

Carolyn, you might have some difficulty in it.

Do you want to come to the table?

I would there's benefit in being explicit.

I mean, if you if your goal is to recognize freedmen if tribes recognize freedom, I would I would just say as much.

I was just gonna say I agree.

I think uh it's always helpful to be explicit by what you mean.

I'm happy to help draft an additional sentence there, that's what the council wants.

If the tribe recognizes a category or something, not even freedman, but just like a then the commission will recognize that I think that would be helpful.

Yeah, I just want to touch on this again, because this is kind of like when you're tracing your ancestry and people try and tie themselves to their history, or their ancestry.

You said it, it's scientific.

DNA is accessible to all of us.

So if we did record keeping was terrible.

We all know that.

Um through ancestry or through DNA testing, you do have some quantum of blood.

I don't know that ancestry would be able to determine what that would be like.

That's such a topic.

Well, they don't really think it's freedom.

But that's my problem is that if you were to take that DNA test and it did show some Native American blood, this to me would be in the same realm.

They don't acknowledge it.

So that's a problem for me.

There have been no but that's why.

That's what I'm saying.

But there's been a court order for that acknowledgement, and those tribes are actively going through these processes to be able to create an enrollment pathway.

So that's to me is that middle ground of the case.

Okay, so there is this is in the there is a process potentially for that.

Right.

But so what that will what we can clarify with our language is going when those tribes have that worked out, which they are legally having to do, then there'll be a pathway for those folks to get a C on this commission.

That's what kind of my amended language proposal is here.

Yeah, if that makes sense.

Okay, currently current freedom that have cards.

There's still gonna always be this back and forth bat.

Right.

But they are new freedom who are recognized by their tribe.

Even the Greek.

There are oh well, then there we go, right?

There's different tribes.

For different things, yeah.

They all have freedom.

They all five civilized tribes.

And we can know the history.

But the five civilized tribes were civilized because they get to the European tribe.

Yeah, but I just want to be deliberate that we're not intentionally being exclusionary because of certain things, or that we are on a path to figuring out how folks who do have those specific things are allowed at some point to serve on these commissions.

I think this is like what we just laid it up to as it's not like perfect, but I think it's just a close approximation we can get to these less exclusion.

I think I think the issue, the issue wasn't freedmen or recognized by it was it was the blood, the Indian blood.

Well, it was it was just people claiming to be of American Indian statement when they weren't.

So I would just I would ask that our grandma didn't pay five dollars.

Would you consider this change?

My grandma didn't pay her five dollars.

Or she wasn't that you don't make it overbroad, because we don't want like I wouldn't expect the commission or or a commissioner to to be a service to the native community Native American community and the city of Tulsa, if last week they found out that they're of American Indian ancestry through Ancestry.com, and now they're gonna be on the commission and via liaison.

The the purpose and goal of this commission is to is to be a service to the city of Tulsa as a liaison with the tribes and tribes and communities, and just because someone is of American Indian ancestry by DNA, that isn't a very good liaison to the people that this commission is trying to reach, and to the tribes of this people the to the tribes that this commission is trying to reach.

So I just want to caution against being over overbrought.

Counselor Councillor Dutton.

Yeah, so I just want to speak to the point of DNA and ancestry.

Um that's region-based, and if you do your DNA and your ancestry, they actually show parental connections.

And I know through my DNA, I came up with nine percent that that's uh lexicon uh Native American Native American because that's part of the Americas as well.

But that doesn't it shows the region, it doesn't show the tribal connections, just the region of where it was debate is so that's that's the difference with the DNA and ancestry is yeah, you're not able to refine specific tribal associations.

So you explain there's a pathway potential.

Yeah, because they want to be able to do that.

So that's relevant to me.

I'm sorry.

So there's a lot of options out there, yeah.

And so I took African ancestry, and so that's how I need to know what actual trial from through DNA because there's a database of DNA.

There's over 30,000 on the continent of Africa, so my DNA could be Native Americans don't have that.

They don't have that database where you can actually take that DNA and test it directly with a tribe.

So I have no arm with the El Cana tribe that lives in Ghana today.

I know that through that specific test because they specify they specialize in that area.

Again, they have over 30,000 DNA uh samples that they have in their system that they can directly connect their DNA to.

We don't have that control.

Right, but if we're talking about regionally, very specifically what tribes might be happening in that area that you could potentially be associated with.

Yeah, yeah.

So I didn't want to get into the weeds about the whole DNA thing, but I certainly think it's right.

Um, and going back to your concern about like how to make sure it's not too broad.

That's why my thought is like that balance is the whole there's still has to be that enrollment correction.

Do you think that helps make sure it doesn't like create too much fraud where someone could just claim access to the case?

Yeah, I think I think that uh sufficiently tailored citizen early enough to not be overbrought.

Okay.

And the main discussion that we had in the commission was about the CDIP card because we went the commission wanted to be able to include people that might be able to lesser blood quantum tribe recognizes because some people some people might be an eighth comanche, an eighth Apache, um, an A China Rappaho and B3A's, but all those tribes recognize only a quarter.

But that person still is culturally tied to each of those tribes, still participates in their cultural ceremonies, still active, although they're not officially recognized.

That was the primary part of our discussion commission and and bylaw uh committee.

And so that's why we have CDIP card to show that maybe you're in a China Rappaho, and you're not gonna have a trouble rolling card because they require a quarter, but you're still able to serve on the commission.

So that's the difference between the two.

That's good.

Okay, that's a helpful.

Is that something we can make sure we clarify in the language as well?

I think that part's already in.

Okay, yeah.

So um, and then I'll just go to my colleagues.

This is just cultural history too.

Of course, I also want to be cautious when we're talking about DNA testing, that not everyone would feel you know safe in participating in DNA testing.

Um, you know, there's a lot of privacy concerns with those companies.

I'm just flagging this, there's a lot of privacy concerns with those companies and how that information gets used.

And then also like, you know, sometimes there are some people that do not want to be on lists like that.

Um please don't make DNA testing programs.

No, sorry, that's why I'm just flagging that for us.

There's some people some of us, this is the as a Jew, we just don't want to be on this.

We don't have this list of us.

Anyway, um doesn't turn out well.

And so yeah, I appreciate people that's a tiny ball privacy and safety.

Sounds like we gone off the air.

No, I'm checking it out.

I'll be continuing.

Thank you.

Is there a way we can fight off the error?

No.

I'm checking on that.

I also want to know are you will you be voting on this tonight?

I think so.

I was just gonna ask if there's an amended language, maybe that rocket, and you make sure that we get your feedback too before we vote on it today.

Yeah, uh, we'll just send you probably just be a little clip of a whole thing, yeah.

One sentence.

I I can look at it to make sure it's not overbroad or something.

I mean, it doesn't serve the purpose of what we're drawing from the truth.

I can't.

Of course, you can't speak to the mission.

Yeah, yeah.

We can definitely do that before five.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for the lighting discussion.

All right, item number four, resolution.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh resolution called and requested the Tulsa County Election Board documents.

Non-partisan general elections.

August 25th, 26th, as necessary.

To elect the city councillors for all nine city culture election distures.

And the auditor of the city is called as provided by the city.

It's also in the charter city charter article six.

Calling for and requesting the election boards of conduct non-partisan runoff elections.

It required on November 3rd, 2026.

Oh, sure.

Carolina actually drafted all of this, but uh it's just the uh um regular resolution calling the election for all council offices and the city auditor as provided in the charter in August, August 25th of 26.

I think you're all familiar with the process, certainly.

So we're not calling off the election, right?

No, it's that one.

All right, any questions or uh comments?

All right, number five resolution directing the filing of an annual assessment role for the Tels of Stadium Improvement District number one, and notice the public hearing on increased assessment of certain parcel of real property within the Tels of State of the Improvement District number one, setting June 3rd, 2026, and the date of public hearing directing notice of public hearing be published in this is with the emergency.

Well, also uh number four was with the emerging call as well.

Hi uh Jessica White with the finance department.

Um this resolution directs us to file the annual assessment role for the Tulsa Stadium Improvement District for the city clerk's office.

Uh the resolution also provides notice of public hearing to property owners.

The public hearing is set for June 3rd, 2026 at 5 p.m.

We are scheduled to bill the assessments on July 1st, 2026.

Um this assessment was first billed in 2009 and as a 30-year district.

Uh once this resolution is passed, we will send second, we will send a we will send property owners a copy of the resolution and their proposed assessment for the upcoming year.

Property owners will have the chance to object to this assessment in writing to be delivered to the city clerk's office by Friday, May 29th at 5 p.m.

So they can attend the public hearing.

Uh councillor right.

Thank you.

Um it came to my attention uh that there's nonprofits in the stadium improvement district that have to pay these assessments, and I wasn't here when it was originally crafted, but was there any discussion or contemplation of carving those out?

And the determination was not too much.

I believe that's those exceptions are provided by statute, and the city itself pays the assessments downtown, for example.

For the non-profits, even if they're leasing a building versus owning it.

I think it attaches to the property, the assessment.

So um those may be passed on, but um the county pays.

Yeah, the city and the county paid very strange.

The camera's going quite a bit.

Yeah, that's why.

We are still alive though, I've already got it.

Yeah, it was making me dizzy.

It was like critical.

It's that one.

It's not always someone's just making a case.

I don't know, but it made me dizzy to see it.

Come back around to us.

So if the nonprofit owns the building, then there's a carve out by state statute.

No, no, no.

I think the only exceptions are those provided by statutes.

So uh I think it's religious institutions and federal entities are exempt under under statute.

But cities and nonprofits are not is my understanding.

Okay, religious institutions at federal facilities.

Okay.

Oh, do you want it off?

Yeah, I can turn it on.

That's fine.

Council technology.

Anything else?

No, I didn't know if any of you had been so we could get aware of that, but just have a lot of people.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you so much for uh for sharing.

Okay, uh, I'm sorry.

That's uh I'm sorry, come back, please.

My bad.

Counselor doesn't have any requests.

Okay.

So thank you.

Um Councillor Victor Mike for that.

I was it was also brought to my attention last week that nonprofits are being uh sustaining commercial uh parcel property based on the property values in that area, and so nonprofits are simply that, and to pay commercial rates is really puts them in a tight spot.

So that really needs to be addressed.

I don't know how it can be, but that's how it came to my attention.

I think that's where we got whatever we were going through, I guess.

Is it that isn't that also through the county?

I mean, can we get properties from the county?

County doesn't is are you saying that it would have to be a state statute that would carve it out?

There's nothing we could do locally for relief.

I think that's right, and these are distinct from property taxes, these are assessments that um the those the treatment as in the under the I Balorum system is is different, but so this ties back to a specific state statute that calls out um federal agencies, federal property, and um religious property.

And if they make the ex I'm just asking the question, if they make the exemption for those, could they not amend their statute to also exclude 501c3s?

Yeah, so is that something that we need to then go to legislators and say, you know, could you provide relief?

I think that's the memory of the way.

Yeah, it's an outsized um, you know, these nonprofits are leasing a space close to where they need to provide services, and then they get passed through $5,000 or something assessment, and they're you know, five thousand dollars could feed or clothe our house people.

So that's how it came to my attention, and it was a bit of a shock.

I don't know, you know, I said you should check your lease and see if there's like disclosure of those things, right?

They're just trying to be approximate to people are trying to serve and they don't necessarily understand that that also puts them in a city trust district, right?

So I don't know what kind of disclosures also required of the property owners if they're leasing the space.

I don't know how you change it based upon when that assessment was put in place.

I don't know if changes can be retroactive given the debt that was taken on by the stadium trust based upon those projections and those laws.

Right.

So I would say it could just be like a consumer going forward information, point of information.

If you are looking at leasing a property in this defined area, more than likely you will have this pass on to you.

I just think it's a consumer knowledge um of understanding as well.

You know, if the property manager is not saying, Oh, we're in the stadium trust district, and that means this cost will be passed on to you, and the people organizing to rent an office or a space don't know to ask those questions, and then they can just get surprised with this annual bill that's like what is this?

Especially if they didn't know about it and they didn't budget for it.

Counselor Lake did did you say or can't you remind us or do you know what the amount is per year per square foot?

Is that how it's done?

Um so last year.

Um per month or a half a little over 2.96 cents per square foot.

Um that's what they start at.

Um say nine six or six nine.

Two point nine percent.

Oh two point nine percent.

Oh, the square foot.

Two point, I'm sorry, two point nine six cents per square foot on the upcoming bills of what it's 2.96 cents per square foot of whatever your building is.

Yeah, so it's a per year.

That's the um services component.

There's also the debt component, and then um capital capital cost component four point three cents per square foot.

Yeah, 2.96 plus 4.3 cents seven dollars and twenty-six cents per square foot.

So it's on the square footage of the land.

No, and the square footage of the buildings it's seven cents.

Seven dollars and twenty six oh seven point two six cents, I got you.

Is that right?

Is that the total all the end up those things?

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, seven cents per state.

So it's seven bucks per hundred square ish seventy bucks for a thousand, seven hundred bucks for ten thousand.

So it's three.

So it's and I think you have I don't know how big they say.

Right, I think that's where it's pretty hard on the each.

Yeah, I just think is there a place where people can look online and see put their address in and see if they're in one of these districts.

I'd have to look at our website to see because we have a lot of different uh things on the website, sure, and I'd have to see if this assessment district is called out.

A lot of some of the economic development items, this might have been something that was included, but I'm not sure without looking.

But I think certainly we can try to find empower consumers to know where to look up these things so they don't feel like the first time they're hearing it was on their getting up there.

Um confirm that that number So I I did bring down some information, but um I didn't add it all up.

So I could give you the breakdown.

So what we do is we have this handy dandy little spreadsheet.

And we charge um per for the whole land and building.

And um so there's a capital of four point three percent.

Um percent sense.

Sorry.

Um it does go up a little bit every yeah.

I guess I just wasn't prepared what uh the total percentage would be.

Oh the assessment.

Okay, so we're at the back into the numbers.

I can't see I can't wear it.

Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

It's in uh interesting loop, so it's everybody within there.

Um with the exception of federal government and churches.

Churches, religious or something with street.

It goes to like 15th or something.

Yeah, there's a map.

We just didn't bring it with us.

I think we just need to be able to let people know where to look at that.

And I and to read our lease agreements.

Okay, anyone else before we um continue on and maybe get that number?

All right.

Uh giving uh July first here.

Emergency solutions grant uh fund housing opportunity for persons with Authorization Authorizing the Mayor to submit a final statement and to all assurances understandings and associated with said grants from the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development.

And in accordance with all requirements.

Uh accompanies the recommendations that you already approved, so this is just the next extra.

Any questions?

All right.

Item number seven.

Um discussion regarding housing or uh community development committee recommendations for reallocation of additional C D B D C V program funds.

Uh part of the requirement of the C D D G MB funding, all funds must be expended by June or the other.

And so we thought that was a good idea for us to do.

And so actually when Mayor Nichols came on board, he and Aaron York kind of took the ball, ran with it, and created this friendship with Sumi.

They've been here to visit.

And just think it's a great thing for us to do based on what they're doing.

We also have some business connections as well.

So we have SUME residents who live here in Tulsa, and the OSH nation is work with Ukraine actually on some drone um technology manufacturing as well.

So there's that business connection, there's that cultural connection, and yeah, I think it's a valuable uh friendship for us to have with a city.

Hopefully at one point we'll get to a point where they'll become one of our sister cities.

It's just a first stages of building that relationship.

Wow.

Anyone else want to do that?

Masterfully.

I I would say that they're delightful people.

I got to go to dinner with five individuals from Sumi, and uh one of them being their governor, maybe their two or three time governor.

Um he was in and out of office.

But um you're just very gentle um kind individuals who were very happy to come and have this partnership with the city of Tulsa.

And um I know that Aaron and others went up.

Did the the deputy mayor also went up to Washington DC to actually sign?

Aaron York was the one who went up to the Washington DC and they signed the friendship agreement on our behalf.

Yeah, to their embassy, to the Ukrainian embassy in DC.

Tremendous.

Anyone else?

Oh, that's great.

All right, thank you so much, Aaron.

Thank you, sir.

All right, item number nine.

Discussion on the selection of an alternative city counselor to serve on the independent review panel for vision arts grant application.

Well, I thought it was you one.

Oh, yeah.

So um, but I was I was out on leave when that selection was made.

That's why you were picked.

I know.

And like I recall from the prior year that Council Archie had expressed interest.

Um and the amount of time commitment that it takes.

I just can't commit to this year.

Like, it is a really labor-intensive review process.

And I had recalled how much counselor archie, the prior year had expressed interest.

Sure.

So I was like, we should bring it back for him to do it because I will not end up like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

Well, it was just like it was um, the shanti was like, hey, she said that we can I wish they brought this to our attention sooner.

They're like, we can't move forward until we know on on the vision grants until we know we're moving until we know the council wraps.

And I was like, you I was like, you don't want me to participate because it's so many materials to fly through.

Yeah.

And so I was saying it's a good thing.

So let's uh go ahead, please.

Well, let's well look.

I am here, sir.

Okay.

You don't want it?

You're you're the artist, I don't know.

No, no, no, I can't sell any of the refrigerator art that I've made yet.

So obviously I'm not real artists.

Well, when the gift shop opens, you probably actually have a conflict as an artist.

I'm not an artist, so conflicts here, but um, oh, yeah, I guess it'll be used to already.

Should we talk about this after the meeting then, counselor?

Or do we need to decide now?

No, no, no, this is it, we're signed now.

We're signed now.

Okay.

We're not deciding.

We're not taking any hours.

We're discussing your genuine endorsement.

Oh, sure.

But I'm happy to tell you about how labor intensive the process is.

Yeah, I'd like to grill this guy.

See how much he knows about art.

Tell us about your background in art history and culture.

No kidding.

That should take like 30 seconds.

It is a really cool process.

I know I just said it's intensive.

Yeah.

How many like how many hours?

10 hours a week or something.

Well, it's it's more so it really varies.

So I'll just verbalize to all of us.

And this is something like I would look forward to maybe discussing with Ashanti at some point as she even looks at the process for the Vision Arts grants.

It's just what even the nonprofit entities or the artists are have to submit.

Right.

Is a lot of documentation, a lot of budget materials, and a lot of statements, including showing the economic impact and so much else, their marketing plans.

It's just a lot of material to sort through, which you could like probably systematize your approach to that.

But there's just a lot, and then there's rating criteria and rubrics to then fill out to go with that.

And so it's just a lot of in the platform itself of what you have to sort through to look at.

Now in prior years, they've had, you know, you're sometimes you're looking at 30 plus 40 applications of pretty elaborate materials.

It sounds like they have had less submissions than in past years, but it's it's just a lot to go through.

Sure.

Um, you know, I found that if I just set aside where you know two or three big chunks of time, I could carve that out and do it, but it was a lot.

I don't know whether it's a lot of that.

It's like I hope we make it less intensive for everyone in the future.

And there's the time frame that it all has to be done in and then you have like follow the like an actual meeting or two of convening where everyone discusses to determine the actual allocation.

Right.

So I mean it really is uh very time consuming, and I see why now I was asked to do it.

You'll go for the other piece I will add is on the plus side, the actual city staff already goes through to ensure basic eligibility criteria.

Like you're not looking for those elements.

So there is certain due diligence done in advance, so you're only really looking at eligible applications.

So some of that is cleared out, and it is they do have less applications than in past years, which we could unpack if that's also coversome to do.

It's Megan.

Um we finish this.

Anyway, yeah, this discussion.

But anyway anyway, this is all to say, like I think it could become a smoother, shorter process, but that's not about to happen this year.

Yeah.

Um, I think it's a good thing for everyone to experience doing because you do learn a lot about arts and culture organizations, and you get to help ensure that people have access to resource to put art into our community, and that's great.

So it's worth doing.

I just understand that it's not something that all of us can do every year.

Sure.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Well, then I will I'll set aside those chunks here.

Yeah.

Our our chair is pushing us.

She's not saying the whole meeting.

Well, no, it is we just can't live here forever.

Squirrel.

Yeah.

All right, everyone.

Thank you for joining us.

We are adjourned.

Also a violation of City of Tulsa ordinances.

And the best way to protect your pets.