Budget and Special Projects Committee Meeting: Compensation, Pay Equity, and Personnel – May 13, 2026

Alright, thank you for joining us today.

Is Wednesday, May 13th?

This is the 1 p.m.

Budget and Special Projects Committee meeting.

Item one, I call this meeting to order two, uh discussion with representatives from the Mayor's Office and Human Resources regarding the fiscal impact of compensation pay equity and or uh and personnel in the current budget year for the proposed 2026-2027.

Who we got?

Erica, if you look at the work, personnel director, perfect human resources.

Oh, Mike is joining us at the table.

You know, I usually just like to lurk in the back.

This is your first time to the table.

In a while, yeah.

And only that were you introduced yourself?

Sorry, Alicia Ryder Human Resources.

Angela Bradley, human resources.

I could take that.

Thank you.

Okay, well, thank you for welcoming us.

The agenda item was clear, and we've got a lot of the details specific to that.

But I think we're gonna start off with an overview.

We're gonna kind of present as a team, we're trying to have a conversation, some back and forth.

So we may differ ones of us jump in.

Uh but let's go back to the other slide, and just to talk about the overview.

Um, kind of why we're here.

You know, the mayor presented uh his budget and talked about um things that he had done adding some positions and previous positions, and so there were questions about that in rightly.

So really our report today is based on the fair council and mayor priority of operational efficiency.

There have been um discussions about available resources about how the city uh budgets for employees and positions, and really what we're trying to do is align the capacity to do the work uh with the with our budget, and so in some cases, uh so we looked at uh we'll go through the methodology here in a little bit, but we were basically trying to align what are we budgeting to do and our ability to do that, and to the extent that we were budgeting for more than we've had the ability to deliver on, we could realign those resources, and that's what was reflected in the mayor's budget to do.

Um so let's go ahead and talk through um the uh this is kind of the overview of uh Chair Gilbert read it well.

We'll have to rehash it.

These are the things we're gonna cover uh in the presentation.

Um I'll turn it over to Erica to talk through uh the frozen positions that were uh proposed in the budget and why.

So as we went through our process of looking at primarily uh vacant positions, well, all vacant positions uh that were currently open in all the departments.

We centered in on about 260 vacancies and looked at those each individually based on some criteria, focusing on you know what were service levels in those areas.

We did not want any position freezes that we proposed to have any negative impact to service levels.

Um, we looked at what was the department's perspective, and after we identified what we thought might be some position for discussion, we did meet with all the affected department heads and kind of worked alongside them to come to final agreement on what those position freezes would be overall.

Uh we centered in on 41 positions that we proposed to be frozen in FY27, and then some in FY28 as well.

Some additional ones in FYI for the same.

It would be frozen potentially two years, not additional positions.

Same positions, some max of 41.

Correct.

Yeah, so criteria that we looked at as we identified those vacancies was were there multiple vacancies within the same position or job titles, uh, the length of the vacancy.

There were some positions that have been vacant for more than two years, more than 18 months, and so we had some further conversation about those.

We also looked at, if you looked over about a three-year period.

What was the max number of those positions that had been filled over that period of time?

So, for instance, there were 10 positions that were budgeted, but over that period of three years, only six had ever been filled, and so there were four that were historically always vacant.

And so we talked about those with the department heads, and then we also looked at recruitment status.

So on any given day, a vacant position might have an offer that's out that has been accepted or in the process, and so we excluded any that were in that stage of the recruiting uh process.

So I think that mirrors what you're saying is it mirrors we're not trying to cut services, we haven't filled this position, or with most of the having this position, this is a lower number.

It's not a service we're doing, it's a budget that is a slot we're not filling, so it really emphasizes that we're not uh cutting service by doing that.

So after our meetings with department heads, we came up with the following uh positions to be frozen based on departments and kind of the funding and savings.

So this graphic shows what departments had positions frozen for FY27, whether or not it was general fund savings, or if they're funded had funding implications in other enterprise funds, and then what that total cost savings would be from a just another just kind of graphic of the number of positions that were impacted in each department.

I think we're on that wrong slide.

No, the ads, the line.

No, we've got one more slide.

Oh no, but she didn't.

Okay, all right.

Um, so sorry about that.

We've got a little difference in what I have, and it's on your screen.

Uh, position ads.

I think that was another question that was asked.

Um, so for FY27, there were positions that were requested in the budget, and that were uh part of the mayor's presentation, and so we're showing the variance there.

Um, so FY27, uh, a total of 30 added positions.

Can we go back?

Yeah, so there were 30 positions proposed to be added, and those are the departments that were impacted there.

Um, there was a question about any transferred or transitional positions.

Um, the next graphic shows those um, so just some changes from grant funding to general fund uh in the resilience and equity, um, a change in department with no budgetary impact for the chief mental health officer position, and then a move from police department into fire department and a little pay grade change that did have a small budget impact uh for a position uh in the fire department now.

So it was also asked regarding any positions that were cut in the current FY26 budget.

Um this graphic just shows how those were divvied out, a total of 22 positions abolished in FY26, eight were added, all of those eight were in the police department, and this graphic just further illustrates what pay grades we were abolishing in FY26.

So from those departments, there were 10 ATs, one city attorney, seven managerial exempt positions, and four office clerical positions for a total of 22 moving on to compensation adjustments for fiscal year 26.

Um, so after negotiations completed for this fiscal year that we're currently in, the final contracts uh mounted to police department received SBIs that were retroactive to July 2026, and that included a four percent increase to their top stepped or topped out employees who would not be eligible for an SBI movement.

Buyer received SBIs and their contracts as they get their SPI step movements on their anniversary date of higher.

So those are spread throughout the year.

And then they were given a 3.6% adjustment to their top step as a final completion to their contract.

And then for non-sworn, we were able to give SPIs effective April 5th of this year.

And we expanded the charts at the max by the equivalent percentage of 2%, so that even topped-out employees would also receive a pay increase.

So the cost of those increases for FFP, police sworn.

So there are two columns here, one showing the impact in this fiscal year.

So the cost of the SPI, the cost to the 4% to the top step.

There was a line item where we gave a little additional money towards the medical trust.

And then the total of 3.7 million.

The next column shows what's the impact of that going into FY27.

And so there are some differences there depending upon the effective date of those increases.

So for the medical increase, that was effective in January of 2026.

So full year cost is reflected in that second column.

Again, their SPI cost impact was a little less in this current fiscal year because it was distributed out over their anniversary dates and how those fall.

Then you see the cost of the 3.6 to the top step, their medical contribution increase, and that total of 2.547 million.

There is a higher impact in FY27 because of how those things are spread up.

We incurred that full cost of those raises for FY27, so that's reflected in the second chart, and that's the reason for the differences there.

There were some reclassification requests that were part of the budget presentation and the highlights that were provided to you.

Some of those have different cost impacts, and those that were included are all still subject to HR review of putting them in the appropriate pay grade and making sure that they are appropriate reclassifications.

For example, the position that is current is the one that is reflected in the final column as out.

So that position will no longer exist, and we will be reclassing that if approved to the next higher pay grade and to that line above it which is reflected in.

It took me a few times reading this slide to fully understand, so I wanted to explain.

So they're in pairs.

So the current job is the second line, and the top line is what it would be moving to if the reclassification is approved.

Do you have this for us?

Um it's in the it's in the back of the back of okay.

Do we have paper copies?

Yeah.

Not everyone is updated back up like five minutes before the meeting.

Okay.

So I was a challenge on the last slide.

But this slide deck, this slide deck is in backup.

If we want the budget stuff printed, we can, but we just don't normally print back for everybody.

So we can have presenters bring uh handouts to us.

That's okay.

That's okay.

Now we know.

We have them, but there was a change in the after printing.

So that is a lot.

So we get into the new handout.

Yes.

Okay.

So you can ask your A to print you off a copy if you need it.

A new handout.

So go ahead.

Okay.

Thank you.

So as you go down, this is meant to represent what those changes would look like and then the value or anticipated cost of those if approved and once they're fully implemented in the budget.

So our next slide just discusses pay equity.

The pay equity policy was implemented in 2018 to provide transparency and a consistent method to review employees' pay.

We did refine that policy in 2023 to streamline the process.

We have a citywide annual review that occurs every fall, and then we also review upon promotion into a higher pay grade or equivalent.

Those are done.

And those are I would say in line with what we've seen in previous years.

There's more surprises there.

Do tend to hire contracts with some labor organizations, and it gives us an opportunity so that we're not having a revolving door at those entry level positions.

Some departments that use those are customer care, public works, Tulsa Animal Services, Water and Sewer, again, primarily in those entry level positions.

So emergency management, family and children's service family services, that type of uh those types of projects, right?

We got it, we got it open.

So I'll talk just briefly about those last two.

We did have a contract with the team for emergency management.

I mean we have other presentations on that we could dig it on.

But related to are there, or the questions are there jobs that are currently being contract with brought in a house or vice versa, and so that's an example.

Those were previously contracted out, those will be for the employees.

Uh likewise the director of the Office of Children, Youth and Families has been a contract position.

It's proposed in this year's budget that is uh city employee rather than uh through your pack also as the main lead person for that.

So those are two examples that are reflected in the budget of previously contracted jobs that are the city.

I haven't used that one in particular, which will need the families is budget neutral.

It's the same amount allocated to that office, just to get in-house weekly rather than external.

So that's uh those are those are our attempts to answer the questions as they were closed.

Um, did it try and say, try to align our resources in places where we knew we probably weren't gonna use them and put them in places where we could to provide services, okay.

Okay, I have a few questions and then we'll um start with others.

Uh what are the eight positions in the police department from the current facility?

I think Councillor Bellas and Councillor Bangle have to leave.

Need to go and have questions.

I can't wait through if yours are just two or three, actually.

Do you have questions too?

I did not know that you all had something else that you needed to get to, they do.

That would present.

It would have been help helpful if I had that information before I started questioning.

That's okay.

So if you what time is your next meeting that you need to get to?

We just both need to leave probably at 1 48.

So we have some.

What are the eight positions in the police department that I kept seeing?

I don't have a handout in front of me, sorry, but I kept seeing eight positions in the police department.

So what are those eight positions?

This was yeah, this was from in this is the 26th budget the year that we're currently in.

Um we had uh from the I think 25 budget.

We had a bunch of positions to do warrants uh with the police.

Did not fill those, we cut them, and that's part of the 13 when we weren't doing that program.

They had they had budgeted to fill it to add a lot of civilian employees that they didn't add.

Um, and they made a case for repurposing some of those that were for that warrant program for other things that to the civilians could do to take the load off of this.

And what are those positions that civilians are doing in the police department other than warrants?

Okay, that is a great follow-up question that I think will be happy to answer, and so that part of part of our direction was to come with an overview, and if we can drill down on some of those, I'll be happy to follow up individually on those.

It's not top of mind because that was a year ago that I was thinking about those eight ads.

So, um, and also the the three positions within the uh new emergency uh services division, those are full-time, yes.

Okay, so we we have these three people working in the these positions full time, even during uh situations where we are like in the heat of the summertime, I mean where we we're not expecting crazy weather coming through.

Understood.

I mean, I know you have a scheduled presentation with uh emergency management director to address those.

Okay, okay.

Well, I mean, I don't want to misspeak and say something beyond what she would say, right?

And but I think those are good questions.

I think that it probably mirrors a service level that we are used to and accustomed to in the city from when we were uh affiliated with the county.

Right, we split it with the county, so it's yeah, um also um I we're on the slide of the um SPIs and the police and fire.

Is fire still under negotiations right now?

No, we have signed contracts with uh with all three of the unions for 26.

We are doing current year 27 negotiations, so yes, we have open negotiations, but not uh this was a question about what were the fiscal year impacts of the 26 raises, and that's what the what we presented those slides on the step increases for the current fiscal year impacts.

Okay.

Okay, so how do we have a plan?

How do we have a proposal on salaries that are still under negotiation?

Right.

Like in this budget proposal.

I guess they have to come up with a number.

Did you just come up with the number you think you're gonna do?

Yeah, right.

And so yes, and so that's that's something that we negotiate, and so we can it's already budgeted.

Yeah, adjust.

So we just show our cards during the negotiations and our proposal.

Okay, okay.

So this could change.

Yes.

Subject to negotiations.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, the F 527 negotiations are absolutely ongoing with.

Okay, so they are ongoing.

Yes, okay, for 27.

For 27.

Thank you.

Which is what we're looking at.

The budget.

Sorry for my confusion.

But could it be like eight million dollars difference?

I mean, it could be, depending on what's negotiated.

We'll find out.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Okay.

We'll find out.

Um, I think your eight question eight positions question for me.

I happened to.

You want to come to the table, Chris?

You should have.

Okay, Rusty.

Yep.

Bring that here.

I promise not to buy it today.

But there were three case support specialists added, and four report specialists for virtual reporting added, and one report specialist supervisor.

I assume we're overseas.

What are the case specialists?

Can someone answer that?

Case support.

I don't have those details.

Okay.

I don't recall exactly.

Okay.

I would just be interested in what their job does.

We're going to be a customer.

Okay.

Um I have Councillor Bellis and then Counselor Dektor Wright.

Um Counselor Bangle, do you have a question before you have to leave?

No, I have multiple questions, so I'll just present it later.

Okay.

I think I just have one of the two.

So I'll be quick.

Okay.

Just to clarify, because you mentioned it was budget neutral.

Is it for the children families director?

Is that a 200 is that with I'm assuming a principle that is 275k?

So 275 is the total budget amount for contract services in terms of three years.

And that's going to be the salary.

No.

Okay.

That's why I was like, let me just clarify that.

No, the overall budget, there's still going to be contract and services within the office of children's families.

So it's like some contracted, some staff.

Thank you for clarifying.

That's because I was like, sure.

Thank you.

Okay.

So out of curiosity, which I don't know what that like salary you all have in mind for that.

Do you know what like off?

Okay.

So thinking about like the scale of back salary and some of the other ones, like, I know it's like uncomfortable talking about money and salaries and costs, but you know, like higher level administrators, like you know, like yourself, we have some of these, like, and I'm not saying people shouldn't be adequately compensated for really high level work, but I know that we've had some kind of you know, larger scale salaries come on to or scale into the budget, and this could be another example of one where then I know as you just described for pay equity purposes.

When you're doing kind of a you know, parity increases and evaluation, those we you may have to then increase other similar position salaries when you have some of these escalated ones.

I think what I I had submitted a question related to that where I was trying to suss out because it's one thing when we go, hey, we're gonna increase a lot of salaries across the board, which we should do, but some of those salaries are, you know, half that of some of these higher level positions, and some of those have increased fairly significantly over the past year or at least I have the perception that they have.

Um I think of spreadsheet maybe would be helpful, and so my curiosity is when you then look at existing administrative roles and you're trying to ensure there's parity for the similarly aligned positions, and when you go to seek that, then to reach that, it's a much bigger chunk of dollars than if you're seeking parity for some lower salary positions.

Do we have any way to suss that out?

I just I think we've gotten a perception or at least I have when I see some of the salaries, and some of those are more mayor-appointed ones, but then if ones come up to the general fund or with this children use and family ones, these are just higher dollar than the majority of city positions, and I'm not saying that that's inequitable by any stretch or unjust, but it may force us then to do increases for parity and equity purposes to existing similar roles within a pretty quick time frame.

Does that make sense?

I'm trying I'm having trouble like describing what I'm asking, but I've just been trying to understand if that creates a situation where we're having to rapidly increase some pretty high dollar salaries to reach parity and equity, and I don't know if we like have math around that.

So I can try to address that.

So mayor's office salaries are excluded from the annual working general.

So that makes sense.

Anything that's happening there is not dictating or dropping down and impacting uh you know, right services.

Which I know you have those like senior advisors that specialize, I guess.

Um we also do have criteria if you dig into that policy, which we were not going to go into that level of detail, that sets out how those comparisons are made, but there are always outliers, and so there is a protocol in place to kind of like call out outliers so that they don't have an unintended concept.

Okay, that's what I was kind of curious about where if that's like a snowball effect or not.

There's a final review that happens before anything is implemented or sent out within my staff that I sit in on and kind of call out like here are things that are natural outliers that should be excluded from the policy speaks to that.

Okay, thank you.

That's really helpful where I was yeah, trying to understand if something has that snowball effect or not.

Okay, that's great to know that they do.

So we tried to like put some guardrails around that.

Is it 100% perfect?

You know, yeah, probably not, but like there is an attempt there, and we do look through it.

Okay, that's helpful to know.

Because I think that my like one of my alternating questions have been is we try to figure out how to make sure we're getting salary increases for so many city employees knowing cost of living so challenging, was just trying to think of those things that can push or pull that.

And I know that you know, when you talk about a cost of living increase for a salary that's fifty thousand dollars compared to a salary that's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

That's such a big number difference.

So I was just trying to write my arms around that.

So thank you.

That's really helpful.

Counselor Dictor, right?

Thanks.

So just to clarify, 137 will go from contract to in-house, and then the remainder 275 will be used for administration.

The contract services, yes, outside that 137.

Okay, that's on the office of family children and you.

So outside of that criteria that you were just saying.

So that's a clarification thing.

Okay.

So when it's outside, are they still at grade levels though?

Like the EX and the 73 years, or is that all separate that it's separate?

They have unclassified, just like you're in unclassified pay designation that all of the appointees are also unclassified.

Okay, um, I have some questions about the 911 performance management reclassification from place to fire, and now it's going to be fire dispatch manager.

Um so there was a little cost increase on that.

Is that offset with the other?

We have two positions that we got approved, I think two budget cycles ago that went unfilled until very recently.

I think one was posted and one was hired.

Well, we're sorry.

So is it this is the overall cost of those two positions up from what we originally anticipated like a year or two ago?

I'm not a hundred percent sure on the cost portion of it.

I I think probably the best would be to speak to the department and ask them what has driven that.

Okay, I just I have concerns um for the people that maybe are newer.

The pre-hospital working group advocated and got funded two positions, two budget cycles ago, so I don't know what happened to those rollers.

I'm assuming that go over time.

And then one got reclassified as an actual um police fire position, and then this other one is like solely fire, but I guess when Chief Baker comes, we can find out you know what operational impacts that causes and what they hope to gain from it.

It's a different concept than what was originally approved two years ago.

Of course, none of it was hired until one is hired now recently, and I think the other one literally was posted on Monday, so we'll see what happens with that.

Um, going back to emergency management, so there's gonna be three Tulsa, City of Tulsa emergency management positions, but I just did want to highlight that that takes our cost from 263 a year to 425.

And that's an ongoing general fund obligation that we'll have.

And so I'd like when that presentation comes to hear a lot more justification about why we are choosing to go in that direction, especially um, that's like that is scheduled in five minutes, yeah.

Well, now personal portion, but also just um from what I know of how we respond to emergencies.

I I just I have question marks about three people taking that on in a way where we had a crowd source coalition.

Yep, and so I'd like to understand what piece of that we still have access to and how, and do our costs also get shared that way.

I just need to know a lot more about that.

I do.

Um, going back to the unfilled physicians, um, how many of those were are like are necessary, but we just don't have the the dollars prioritized versus we've determined they're not necessary to fill.

So you said like there won't be service impacts, but that doesn't mean they're not necessary.

No, so I that's a great way to put it because I think there's a level of service we would like to provide, right?

And so for instance, if there's uh if there's a public works employee that we cut that we would like to be patching roads with, but we just haven't filled that position in three years.

Um what we hope to someday is would the if we are fully staffed and say we would we need more people to do the work.

We have all our positions filled and we need more people to fill the potholes, then we see that upward pressure on numbers, and so that's really the it's the difference between the service level that we want to provide, but have not been able to because we just haven't been able to fill the positions.

Um and in some ways we haven't been able to fill the positions because of pay issues, and so reducing head count lets us have more opportunity to give races to the ones that are here doing the work.

So I think I think those are interrelated, and so it's not that we don't want to do that work, it's just that we're not so we shouldn't we shouldn't budget to do stuff we do we're not gonna do.

Um to the to the part to the extent that we get to the point where we're ready to do that work, then we say, all right, we need to add positions.

Okay, so we can it's just because we can't fill them, we're just doing overtime or going slower than we'd like.

Speaking of going slower than we'd like, I think all of us you know made very clear code enforcement's a priority.

I just wanted to get clarification.

It looks like we're taking three positions from multi-family inspections.

Is that not accurate?

No, I think that's what James addressed earlier.

In here, yeah.

Okay, um, go ahead.

We'll get a heading fixed on there where it says I can't remember what it says, but there's a heading issue on our like a technical change.

Yeah, yeah, it yeah, no numbers will change, but a heading that describes it as one thing will change to another.

Okay, I don't have much.

Are we but in in essence are we reducing the number of people doing multi-family inspections?

Okay, that's what I want to thank you for that.

But we are increasing our capability to do the backlog, yes.

So it's a yes and okay.

Um I think that's all my questions for now.

I have more, but I don't I I guess the scope of this I wasn't fully understanding.

So I have questions about like why the health um chief mental health officers moving departments and you know, that person.

Okay, so feel free to ask, and if as long as you don't mind me saying I'll get back to you or whatever, I answer what I can do.

I can take my notes and send them to you.

Um so we're moving the chief mental health function from the resilience and equity office and the mayor's office, and that was uh an in-house position, but now it's going contract.

So accurate.

I think so.

Um, but the important part is just it aligns with our chief uh health officer, Dr.

Posha.

So is this person gonna report to that person?

Okay, that was my other question.

Yes, okay, and so that um will that be funded through grants that Dr.

Posha is securing, or it's gonna be general fund?

So the it's funded at the same level it was funded in the previous year, so I think that's a general funded position.

Um, that has been great as somewhat of the scale was put out recently about getting grants to help support that work, and so um we anticipate that as well.

Yeah, I'm just trying to track like things that we're doing that are going to obligate the general fund past one time expense.

Um like taking on emergency management and house or some of these things.

Yeah, because as you know, we get to a point where it's like, oh, we got this grant to do a thing, or yeah, um let's try it public-private partnership, and then all of a sudden it it's coming on to our books.

So, but I don't think that the chief mental health officers not one of those, but there are those, yes.

Yes yeah so I I hope at some point in this process we just get that list of how in the past.

I think Sarah, haven't we gotten like a list where it's like grant-funded position through XYZ date, just so we can be looking ahead and understanding what we're obligating ourselves to.

I think most of them, at least last year, most of them were those types of positions that the grant pays for the position and so if you don't have the grant anymore then you no longer have the function and the position there were only a few one of them's one of them's on here though that were kind of being grant funded right um but then we also have to make a decision because like the FEC was grant funded and then we made a decision to bring it onto the general fund and so I just want us to be mindful of those things because there is kind of a max max capacity for ongoing um and it doesn't mean like the pilots aren't good or even the services that they you know that any group provided is just at what point can we take on all these obligations that's really where my mind is so I'm sure I have more but I'll let my colleagues go.

Any other questions?

No questions Councillor Denton so I'm looking over the back of the material and there is definitely information about the frozen departments and I'm looking at developmental services and that includes permits correct so how are we going to how are we going to go forward with streamlining the permitting process and all these initiatives the mayor wants and we have these positions frozen I I know that there's specifically for frozen.

No that's that's that's a great question it's and they fit into that category that we talked about and I'll if I get too far off track and Erica will ring me in if it's in that category where we're budgeting for a certain amount and we've had way fewer and so we we budgeted for the as many or more than we've had at any point in the last three years.

So we want to keep that level of service and so it was really the back to the principle of we're budgeting for three positions that we've not been able to fill for a long period of time and so we're not cutting a service because we're not we haven't gotten that service for three years.

So that's why um and if there's been questions ask of us like why do you have employees do you have positions that you never filled and you use them for X or Y or Z we're like we don't that's not how we want to do it if the position's not getting filled and to your point Counselor Dutton as if we reach a point where we are where we've hit our limit every position is filled and we're running hot we're like we didn't need to hire small inspections we need to hire more people in development services.

But budgeting for a service that we're not providing and haven't been able to provide is what we were trying to avoid in this case.

I'm just wondering how the permitting process is going to excel when we have these positions so we and so answer is I think it can because we budgeted to have more people than we had so we we can grow and do better in the budget that is proposed.

Yeah okay and then the planning in neighborhoods which positions were frozen there.

Alright so my memory's gonna have to go I'm gonna have to Christy well my memory's not great but I have a spreadsheet that I hope is the final data analytics governance management.

Which was one that was in it's actually in finance under the office of the chief data officer and then moved to cleaning neighborhoods and then a systems business analyst and a project manager three oh goodness those are some high level my recollection is that those were created as part of a reorganization and have never been filled, and some functions had maybe changed, and so they weren't necessarily even gonna be going to be utilized as intended.

So would the data data analytics be part of the NCI data analytics?

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't have any of the questions if it's a doctor, right?

Thanks.

Um on the fire academy, we're taking it um from plan year fiscal 27 from 24 to 22 for quote.

Is there is it just to make the math math, or is there less need, or um it's too we we spent a lot of time on that?

It's to have a minimum level of trying to balance double encumbering, which is where you have we have way more we have more fire department employees than technically budgeted for because they're going through the academy.

At one point when we start the academy, we have more than we budgeted for when we in the academy.

Oftentimes we have less, right?

Because people retire and move on.

And so that's it's that balancing act, and so 22 was the number that we thought would, you know, not overburden us too much on the front end and not cost us too much overtime on the back end.

Okay, nutrition was less than expected this year, nutrition.

So we have retained more than we anticipated, so that's part of the change for the difference between plan year and our button.

And we're holding on over time, at least in fact.

Um with tools to animal services, we talked a lot about this.

We had Sherry here with us.

Um so the proposal for this fiscal year 27 is adding eight, and then for the plan year, it's three more.

But does that get us to where we need to be or where we can like how short are we still?

No, so I think that's I think Sherry answered that question last week.

Um, but I will I will stick with what she said.

This is what I think is the output from your working group and what she thinks works with the building that we have.

Okay, and you know, as we open the building and as we provide the services, we'll know more, right?

So I don't know that we want to project what 29 might look like.

Um, but once this fall, once we're in the building, you know, next spring we've been in the six months and we're starting to put the budget gather, we might know more at that time.

Yeah, I think it's gonna be important either for the working group or however we want to do it, especially as we roll out the new facility is to have some checkpoints every quarter or twice a year, so that we can really make sure we're measuring outcomes.

I mean, the whole purpose of doing this is to meet citizen expectations on how we meet you know the needs, and so right now it's just an educated guess on how it's gonna go, but if we can do some checkpoints so that this plan year of just adding three, I'm anticipating it might need to go up once we're actually in it.

But um, you know, the plan's a plan, so and especially for a requirement.

Well, I know that the expectation is that there will be more needed, but this is a good jumping off point.

Sure, but I heard today, like Counselor Bangle saying like by investing in a self-cleaning channel, like maybe that shifts the manpower resources that we need, those kinds of things.

So I would just look to you all on that working group to help us because I just want to make sure as we've made significant investments and strides that ultimately it's improving outcomes that we're looking for.

Definitely.

So we just need to make sure that I think that's the majority of my questions for this.

I think when we have the more targeted specific conversations, I'll have more, but um, it would be helpful to get a spreadsheet or something where we can.

I think Councilor Bellis has asked of this before, like even a static one is a little bit hard to get into if we can sort or um compare.

And then because naturally, when a change in administration happens, positions move, titles change, functions change, it would be very helpful to me to kind of see last year.

You know, you guys were kind of like in it doing it.

This year it's more settled.

I would love to see, you know, kind of like this position has moved here, it has gone from a contract to you know, just like a list, it has gone from a contract to in-house.

They report to this department or department head or whoever because we've had so many kind of move movement moving pieces.

Um, I'm not even 100% sure, like where everything's landed, and I think that would just be helpful as you just shared.

Like the chief mental health officer will be reporting to Dr.

Pasha.

That's not how it was before because we didn't have a doctor fascia.

Right.

So just those kinds of things of like where we were and where we are now, um, would be helpful so that we can settle into like this paradigm, I think.

And also, I just I is the Tulsa emergency management three reporting to our public safety commissioner.

Yes.

Okay, that's a lot.

I hope when I hope when she shows up in a few minutes and she agrees, yeah.

I'm pretty sure she will.

I mean, but we just keep adding to that area specifically, so I just worry about administrative support or project management support.

Any other questions?

Can I just go over the follow-up questions to make sure I had those?

I think some of these got answered, but yeah, so the Christy told us the eight positions in TPD, but more about like what those jobs generally do was one, um, the EOC questions um regarding the three positions, and maybe those can be answered in the next meeting.

Uh cost changes on the two 911 positions, uh, what were the frozen positions and development services?

And is there any service level impact?

Um, I think we got the fire academy question answered sufficient.

Okay, um a list of maybe changes due to reorg.

I don't I don't know.

Is that a request for like just department org charts at this point?

Um, or because that's that's to me what if you if we're not sure, like on the org chart you all get in here, that's very high level or chart.

Um, each department probably has their own org chart um just gonna say those.

Okay, well, I like a map.

I'm just thinking of the public safety commissioner, like when she started, she was party of one.

Now we know she has like some administrative support, but like as these three come in, you know.

I'm just trying to it's a whole department, right?

Um that started as one person and the same thing with like economic development.

You mentioned a spreadsheet, but I didn't catch what what would be on the spreadsheet.

Well, like Christie's like, I have a spreadsheet here that she's referring to.

I just don't know what her spreadsheet's called.

So that's what I was trying to figure out.

Um it was a working document that that was it's Dory's, and I don't know like if it has evolved since then.

Because HR took the lead on was the lead group on the vacancy review, and so it's not like something that I own, but I have like what I think Jared has the final version of this positions as well.

That wasn't this that wasn't the spreadsheet I was reading from, but I think I now have it open.

There's lots of files.

Well, really, my qu my question was actually for counselor director, right?

Which what kind of information?

Well, we're getting like pieces of information like I'll use the 911.

It was called this thing, right?

It's been reclassified as that thing.

Like I can read it in here, but I'd like it all of these little notes that are across the budget.

Yep.

Can they just be in like one document so we can just see it?

Like the eight positions were for warrants clearing, now there's three for this and two for that and one for that.

I will just say two years ago there were 15 positions created for the police department to do this warrant clean clearing that never got hired.

Last year we knocked it down to 10.

Yeah, so we get we knocked out, and they were never hired, and now we're doing eight of this.

So it's a bit of a it's confusing as to why we keep carrying such.

I mean, 15 positions is a whole unit.

Yeah, right, 10 positions, still a whole unit eight.

I guess now becomes part of something else.

It's just when we have other departments that are, you know, playing Rochambeau about do we get three new positions or two?

I just I want us to be mindful.

I counselor Dun.

Sorry, I can wait my turn.

No.

Are you done?

I asked okay, okay.

I yeah, I think that's a great point, and I'm looking through the backup material, and we have positions, frozen position ads, but we don't have the specifics of those, and I think it would be interesting to have those in a spreadsheet or map or whatever as to what positions those exactly are and um so do you want the positions just so under FY20 in the department highlights on each budget page?

There's um, you know, FY27 changes.

Yeah.

Do you just want those FY27 changes in one spreadsheet?

I think that would be interesting.

I think so.

What's not going to be reflected in that in FY27 changes is what was included in plan year last year.

We need to we need to see what we plan to do and what we're actually getting.

On position ads.

Yeah.

Okay.

Or there's like it's the same position has a new name.

And it's an increase in grade level.

If it changed with a financial level, yeah, financial.

Or it was a contract and now it's going to be in-house.

It's just and sometimes the titles changing or who they report to is changing.

So it's just, it could be one position, but now it's in a different department.

It's just hard to keep track of it the way it's presented to us here.

It just seems vague.

That's for me, it does.

That's just big.

And I guess if they're brandy new positions, like a job description or something would be helpful, so we can understand what the function is.

Well, and like the cost of pay increases.

I mean, it would be good to know.

We have medical at 320,000 and then future year impact 641.

What does that look like?

I mean, who's I can answer it?

Specifically, that was an addition that was negotiating with both the sworn units to provide the same.

Oh, and the non-support funding towards the carry TC clinic or whatever their similar clinic model is that other non-sworn employees have.

Okay, and it was implemented mid-year.

So that first column is just the half year cost, and what it would cost next year will be for 12 months.

Yeah, okay.

I am can I just ask one question about what we talked about?

And then I have one last question after you.

Well, because sometimes the guessing games off by millions of dollars that we have to find.

I mean that's a great point.

I think the uh like last year's budget had zero, right?

So we were off by millions of dollars, and so we are that's why this year's budget is reflective, I think of what you're asking.

Is there a budget?

We don't know what it's gonna end up being, but it's not a non-zero.

Is that where the fund balances come into play?

Because we're not achieving that stated goal too of not using fund balance.

We're doing less, like 40% less, because we're reducing fund balance over time.

Yeah, no, we're we're using less fund balance, so that was very important.

We're using less fund balance, we're not decreasing the amount going to our savings account.

I I agree with what you said.

We're not obligating it out of the gate, it's just there for a future, right?

Okay, um, I have one quick question, and this may be for Erica.

So you showed us all the uh frozen positions.

Does that mean I mean, not every job opening is not frozen, correct?

Correct, so just for the viewers that are watching this fun meeting, um we are we're not closed.

Oh no, we are not on a hiring freeze.

We have a hiring event going on perfectly at 45th Income.

Okay, yeah.

If you're looking for a job for the viewers, yeah.

I just don't want people to get the wrong impression that we're freezing these positions, meaning that we're in a going through a high hiring freeze, still have at any given time around 100 150 active agencies.

Yeah, we're gonna and one last question.

Uh this position as the family, youth and children.

Did we with impact using impact Tulsa?

Did we just soul search that one or did we put it out for an RFP for other organizations to maybe lead that effort?

It was source, it was a sole source.

Okay, okay.

Just one.

I couldn't do it.

Yeah, that was less.

Okay, all right.

Any other questions?

We are adjourned.