Good afternoon.

And welcome to the Tulsa City Council Public Works Committee meeting.

I call this meeting to order.

Item number two.

Ordinance closing a public way requested by Jamie Skipper, Wallace Design Collective PC, the requested closing of a certain portion of an alleyway as a public way of the City of Tulsa, Oklahoma, located at 702 South Main Street.

Lots one through eight, block 174 of the Tulsa Original Town Edition for the development of a parking garage.

Project number 5-3-25-68 and City Council District 4.

Who do we have?

Hi, Paul.

That's who we have.

This is for the ONG garage, new garage.

Uh that's going to be constructed.

With this project, we do have a sanitary sewer that runs in that alley, and PSO also has an area, and it's described in the document.

We're going to maintain an easement for the sanitary sewer.

There are discussions about them relocating that.

But then PSO is going to be holding an area at 17 feet high and 20 feet wide and below, so that their current aerial lines can still be there.

Okay, thank you, Paul.

Uh have any questions?

Alrighty.

Moving on to item number three.

Change order number three to contract number 13758 between the city of Tulsa and Tri-Star Construction LLP for project number 2159 FRO.

315 in the amount of 50,993.

And adding 185 calendar days for the addition of a new concrete parking lot and sidewalk, Turkey Mountain Rockyards, CD District 2.

Yes, ma'am.

Under the contract, we've got two, we have an ARPA for the city, and then also we have an ARPA money from the Tulsa County.

If you've been up on the west parking lot, and then also the one right at the bend of Elwood and 61st Street as it begins the transition.

Those have been wrapped up.

We've got some tie-in work to do.

But the new area, the rock yard, with the existing pay items that we had.

And new pay items for the rockyard uh parking lot.

And we're doing that with River Parks Authority at the Turkey Mountain, and we're excited to be able to help contribute to get that rockyard area developed, so it's gonna really be nice.

But I think everybody's been pleased with not driving driving on gravel parking lots up there at the top of Turkey Mountain.

Um it's nice concrete, and there are a couple of good locations for uh pedestrians to cross and get into that other area over there around the water tank and stuff.

So it's gonna it's gonna be nice.

It's it's it's really neat.

So that's nice.

Last weekend walking around.

So did you with that we'd ask for your approval of this change order?

Did you have a comment?

It was great.

Okay, all righty.

Moving on to item number four.

One more for you, Paul.

Yes, ma'am.

License agreement between the city of Tulsa and Jennifer.

Jennifer and Fronter House, Larson Trust, dated July 19, 2023 for property located at 3456 South Gary Place, French Acres edition to install, use and maintain Flagstone Walkway within the street right-of-way city Council District 9.

Yes, ma'am.

Um we received a request.

Um they have a walk, a driveway uh that is just a normal driveway off one side.

This neighborhood does not have sidewalks, uh, continuous through the area.

They wanted a place for people that were parking in front of their house to be able to step out onto the flagstone surface.

Um, but the purpose of the license agreement is not for interference with what we need it for, but any utilities that cut through there.

Um, if you're in the packet, there's a really nice picture of it.

It's a large flagstone.

Uh but it would be uh expensive if ONG had to cut through there or water line or etc.

So um they understand uh the issue, and we would recommend approval of this.

We receive no objections from anybody on this.

Yeah, it looks pretty nice.

Yes, it is nice.

Keep you from stepping in the mud.

All righty, thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Any questions or comments?

No, thank you.

Moving on to item number five.

Ordinance amending Title 11B, tossing revised ordinances title solid waste management, chapter 5, solid waste rates and deposits section 500B.

Rates for collection and disposal, making necessary amendments to month monthly user fees for certain residential collection services, included standard collection services and premium services and amending service charges for physically limited services and other charges and providing an operative date of October 1st, 2026.

Hi, hi, I'm Cheryl Black.

Welcome to the table.

And Philip is here, hi.

Welcome to the table.

Um, yes, this is um the ordinance.

We came to council in April, the end of April, April 29th, and talked about the rate changes for tear, and so um this is just the ordinance which would uh put these rights into effect on October 1st, and some other changes.

Questions?

Are we still adding to this?

Um, no, they the communications will go out to the citizens uh in the July bills.

So we'll have a stuffer and then also since um twice-week service has been discontinued as of October 1st.

Okay, um, we're having letters go out to those citizens specifically to tell them about the change.

Okay, will that also be on the website?

That information not everybody receives, I guess.

They're we're gonna be doing social media announcements as well.

Uh, we're gonna be posting it everywhere as much as we can.

We're gonna give a billing also three in one to you know have that information available.

We've uh got flyers and then like uh basically the uh city life as well.

Okay, so we're gonna try to hit multiple avenues to make sure there's no one missed.

Okay, excellent.

Any questions, comments from council?

No, Kristen Bingle.

Oh, Councillor Bangles, sorry.

Um, I think I've sent many emails on where things get left.

Um, that seems to be a problem.

Placement by mailboxes and in front of driveways and stuff like that.

What are we doing to mitigate that?

So right now, basically we do we just have to go out and investigate those.

Uh, with the new contract, we're having the contractor installed uh basically it's gonna have cameras installed on it, and so we're gonna be able to see so if you guys have a customer that complains or sister complains, and says, hey, our cart was left out or we're missed, whatever.

We can pull that up, we'll have access to their their data, and look at their screen and say that truck didn't drive right by missed or that hauler didn't put a car back for the door.

We can make them indicate that right away.

Yeah, I find that far and fewer between than I do the complaints of where they get left.

So we're asking citizens to put them on the curb to be picked up, and then you have folks that are putting them in front of mailboxes, and that creates another problem where I get a call that the trash receptacle sits in front of the mailbox, so some seniors and on their mail, so they don't get their mail, or then they've got to get out of the car stop in the middle of the road, move a receptacle out of in front of the driveway so they can pull away.

So it's not just a once in a while occurrence.

I've seen whole neighborhoods where that happens.

I have an inspector that goes out every day and sends the contractor picture after picture after picture of those issues.

So we are aware of the issue.

We are trying to enforce the issue, but again, when we get more the scores on there, then it's gonna be more benefit, and it'll be a quick response.

Yes.

So you call me now.

I have to you know, my inspector's already checking through the things.

He's gotta go spend another maybe hour before he gets to it.

Yeah, opposed to I can pull it up on the camera and go, yeah, it's it's wrong right now.

So while they're still in that route, we can make them fix that.

That's good.

I appreciate that.

Okay, counselor Gilbert.

Uh thank you.

Yeah, so with the rate um changes, are we going to have you seen uh influx of um trash reciprocals as opposed to it with increasing uh recycling carts?

I guess I'll understand the question.

So with, I mean, with this going because I've had numerous, and I know that I've sent you uh a couple uh residents to contact the words already getting out about the the rate and everything, and so changing, especially those with um possibly two trash carts, um so they're changing one of the trash carts in for a uh recycling cart.

So instead of having two, they're increasing their recycling.

So have you I have not seen an increase in anyone uh asking.

I think I've like in the last probably three or four months only have like two from the cross for a recycling carts.

That's really not a huge ass that I've seen come across.

Okay, talking about a swap between the gray and blue.

Yeah.

Well, you're you you get one recycling cart, one refuse cart, no matter what.

But then you don't if you choose not to recycle, you can opt out of recycling.

Right, and but those who have two trash carts and that want to turn with the rates going up, that they're wanting to turn in their extra trash cart and receive an extra recycling, so um just increasing recycling rather than uh disposing of trash.

I'm not seeing that.

But with the new structure, you're gonna have to pay five dollars.

I believe it's okay.

Cheat sheet right here.

So extra recycling cart is going to cost five dollars.

So if you even if you're gonna do it.

You get one gray and one recycle.

One gray or blue.

So if you decide you don't want a gray, you're still gonna pay that five dollars for the extra recycling cart.

Right.

Perhaps it's just one time.

Well, that is it per month or just one time.

It's per month.

Okay, that was just gonna be.

Are you saying they don't already have a recycling card card?

No, they know she's saying that.

So they're adding they're adding an extra card.

Okay, two recycling cards.

So if they have two grays, and one blue, they want to get rid of one gray, and add an extra blue.

Yes.

So I uh, I know.

Sorry, but by doing that, so an extra 96 calendar area makes sense.

Sounds like it's not saying they didn't have a recycling cart now, they're speaking.

So, I can draw a picture, this is a map.

So basically, if they get rid of their extra gray cart, if you have the it's gonna go, they're gonna be paying nine dollars and forty-seven cents with the new contract.

So they'll be saving basically four dollars and my fault.

1530 with the new contract, and then yeah.

So they'll be saving ten dollars and thirty cents.

So are we doing anything to promote that?

I mean, encouraging.

At this point, we have not because we're still like our first still trying to our first flyers gonna go out in July, okay.

So that's gonna be our first information that it's gonna go out.

Okay, yeah.

One I mean, one thing I would say we'd be careful of is we've had some historical issues of people using recycling carts as trash carts.

Uh that brings our contamination rates uh up, and we have to pay more for that.

So there's a lot of education that's gonna go out in that that billing, but I think one thing we want to do is not have people decide to go the less that route and then try to use as a a gray cart.

Right.

And so that's where we're, you know, trying to be educational that recycling is what we want them to do, but then to do it because we've we've gotten we've gotten a lot more aggressive of pulling carts.

And with this new system, we'll have, we'll actually have cameras and we can see what's there, and then that'll allow us to pull the trigger quicker on pulling carts if people are trying to use them as trash carts versus so yeah.

So um when someone wants to do that, turn in an extra gray cart.

Um they do they just go through the three one to do that process.

Okay, yeah.

And do you I mean, do you expect a large volume of that happening when the changes come around?

I wouldn't think so.

I in my opinion, I think people are gonna keep their gray cart because right now the extra bags are gonna go up substantially.

So it'd be cheaper if you if you use bags and sticker for your bags, it'd be cheaper to have an extra card than to go out and buy the extra stickers.

How much are these stickers gone?

They're gonna go up to two dollars.

Okay.

Okay, are you finished, Councillor?

I think so, but I love talking trash.

So you might be some more.

I actually genuinely have enjoyed learning the history of like I know when you first ran for office, that contract was such a genuinely major issue.

So I don't even refer to history of yeah, that was like the spiciest issue of like what 2012, just when you get it.

Yeah.

Um I was I was just curious related to um the cost, and then you mentioned about like that camera system or being able to pull carts.

Is any of that like is that I know I remember you mentioning that there was that um when it comes to recycling and sorting, being able to use AI to detect like hey these materials shouldn't be here, which I know could be cost saving from significant damage happening.

Is it a similar mechanism like with that camera use that helps determine what to pull or like can you tell you?

Yeah, it'll be that same that system will be what they use for all that.

I mean, it will it will be like we say if somebody that calls later in the day and says they missed my cart.

Yeah, we can we can go pull it up on the footage to see if that cart was even out because sometimes it may or may not.

We don't with this, we'll have video footage that actually shows whether it was out and on that way.

Or did somebody forget to put their cart out and then two hours later put it out and then call it in as a miss.

We'll have video footage that will show that uh that we'll be able to.

And but that's just capturing like that curb side area.

It's got the curbside, but it's also gonna capture we're gonna have a camera on the tip side as well.

So what's gonna happen is it's gonna tip.

So they're gonna have the initial camera that they see contamination that's easily identifiable.

Yeah, it'll probably be missed right away.

Then once it tips though, the camera's gonna capture and identify contaminated objects.

We can come back and then coach educate those folks.

Those folks at that time, if it's blatant, like got a bag of ready mix sitting in there that's blatant, right?

Uh we have people put dead animals in recycling.

That would be blatant.

So then that would just trigger us to just pull their cart because they're not even attempting to try to recycle right.

I feel conflicted by the surveillance state, but I appreciate the recycling support.

But it's like, but it's so it's literally just seeing trash can just clarify, it's seeing trash can curve and what goes in.

It's only looking though, it's only looking at the public property.

It's only looking at I know it's just yeah, you know, there's like I know I know a people get asked these questions when you have cameras that are doing things.

I just want to make sure we understand these cameras focus on the trash on the curb area, and then what's going in from the top, yeah.

So that'll be that way again.

When I've mentioned previously, then there'll be a computer system then that will have an AI component that will learn that, and as it as it was at six months, I think is what they're thinking.

It'll start learning what that looks like, and then it can start tagging, hey, that's contamination.

Here's the address, go talk to them, and then like Philip said, we'll try to educate them, and if they choose not to be educated, then we'll pull the recycle cart.

I will flag just as camera for trash, yeah.

Yes, that's a good way to do that.

Yeah, but I I will flag as one thing because I see this happen in my own neighborhood that I'll be curious about, or just to I don't know if other people have this happen in their districts because of foot traffic of people who oftentimes may be unhoused, they also they throw things out in a lot of people's like trash and recycling receptacles.

That happens a lot in like my own front steps or people go through.

So I'm just naming that sometimes it may be from the household, but you may come across where it was someone walking by and kind of just putting stuff in whatever trash pins out on the curve already.

I just see that a lot.

Just flagging that too.

That's probably where the ring camera comes in.

Yeah, yeah.

So um I'm wondering how many cameras.

How long is that information capped?

So 30 days.

Thirty days?

Yes, okay.

So if you get a complaint, then you can address it right away.

And then that's that's what I'm saying.

Some are saying I sometimes a household will say my mailbox got hit.

You know, that way we can then verify whether or not that truck was the one that did that.

So we have the ability to, once we know it's there, we can then download that that photogen, keep it as a record, and then after 30 days it's washed from their system, but we'll still have reported.

That takes a lot of a lot of space.

Is there a department policy about like because you know like the police department has their noble vehicle recording system policy?

I'm just curious because you know, when you're deploying some of these, you know, this is like a broader thing as we're adopting and using for like the benefit of the city AI technology and where like video type things that you're storing information and data, and there's sometimes there are sensitive materials or content people throw in the trash, like you know, a pregnancy test or whatever.

I'm just like spitballing here, but like I do wonder about sometimes you do end up needing to look at like whether it's privacy policy, data retention policy, you know, what happens with the video footage policy.

I've just seen different, you know, different cities are tackling that different ways.

The data and video is all the contractors, only time we would get involved in it is if we have a claim about somebody missing or you know, something like that.

We would just basically look at that.

And they don't do external data sharing with any of that, okay.

Like that's part of the contract, I guess.

Right, it's housed by them and their contractor.

We only have X read only, just so that we have a complaint we can go investigate.

Okay.

Counselor Bingley?

Yeah, so obviously that was one of my concerns about data retention and policies surrounding the security of it.

I do like the idea because as counselor Bell has said earlier, people may intend may walk by a recycle bin and incidentally put something that isn't necessarily recyclable in that cart, but I think that would be far in few than people like me who might not understand fully the rules of contamination.

So I I'm even weirded out by the idea that when you get a pizza, let's just say, for example, that if it's got any remnants in the box, all that has to be scraped up before you can stick it in that cart.

Is that correct?

Yeah, most pizza places now have a sheet underneath the pretty much you can just take that.

Not the ones we go to.

Okay, most of the time, most of the time, as a window, you see that coming out.

I like me.

They said that you can't have some grease remnants under they don't want food remnants, but they can have some grease on it and they'll still accept it.

Yeah, because that's always a problem for me is what can go in there versus what can't.

Um, because that's my concern is being wasteful that we're creating have this program, and that I think anything that's associated with that dump has to be totally disposed of.

Isn't that correct?

Yeah, anything that's considered contamination basically we have to pay um to have that sent to a to basically hold off site from the recycling plan, and then we get charged a processing fee plus a haul-off fee.

Yeah, and that's my concern.

So I like that the advent of the camera so specifically for that purpose, and so yeah, sometimes I need to be educated on those though.

And the recycling market's gotten where they really want it to be, you know.

We've we're very lucky in where we're at that there's a very good recycling market, so TRT has a market for all the things that we are sending to them.

You know, you go east coast, especially west coast, those markets have sort of disappeared, so they don't really have a market for the recycling.

So they're disposing of it in landfills.

Uh so it's it's sort of a you know, it's not that's why it's very important for us to try to keep the recycling clean, make sure that it's going to the markets and it's it's getting in turn into another end product where like glass gets recycled to do bottles or fiberglass insulation, the plastic gets re you know, to do bottles, and sometimes it's you know, coats, uh, installation and coats and stuff like that.

So as long as we do a good job of getting that collected and then getting it sent to TRT and they then process it and send it out.

That's the ultimate reuse that we're trying to do with the right cycling program.

And again, we're very lucky in the central part of the US that there's still a very viable recycling market where it's not necessarily the case in other parts of the country now.

Just with uh a lot of that recycling on West Coast used to go overseas, and those markets have all disappeared.

They don't really have anywhere to send theirs.

Whereas here we do we do have a market currently.

So overall is our recycling successful.

Yes, it's successful.

I mean, the the markets are down right now on a lot of the items, so we're not we're paying more for to recycle than we have in the past, but we hope the markets, you know, slowly, you know, there's you know they'll go up and down.

I mean, it's uh cargo goes up and down depending on time of year, aluminum cans, all that kind of stuff go up and down.

But no, I think I would say ours is successful just in the fact that two things.

One, we have markets for it, and two, since COVID, a lot of areas they're recycling, uh contamination has shot through the roof to the point some of them discontinued recycling because they're basically people treating it like a second trash can.

Ours actually had a historic low contamination rate at our last audit.

Um so I think you know, through the messaging, we have pamphlets we hand out, we do billboards.

I mean, there's i any way we can think of to try to market or marketing about, you know, what how to correctly recycle.

So we're trying to do that best we can to make sure that we keep that a viable market and make it where recycling is going somewhere other than source.

So, I appreciate it.

I know it's a lot.

So I have a question.

How does this relate also with commercial dumpsters that has nothing to do with commercial?

Okay, commercial is they're just licensed to haul in the city of Tulsa, but we don't we don't have anything to do with that side of it.

Okay, as far as what we're talking about today.

Right, okay.

So it's offered as much right.

I just wondered with the disposal.

I mean, it's at the uh 46th Street North Location anyway, right?

That's no longer our oh it's not no we so that used to be our old landfill, we no longer use that.

We have a new contract.

We use AEL American environmental land pull.

Um, oh okay.

Which is part of the American waste.

Right.

Well that's why American waste actually is the contractor for most commercial dumpsters, so all right.

Well, I appreciate that.

Um item number six.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Sorry.

I'm gonna go back to my blue and my gray.

Yes, okay.

So I got it.

I did a text message from a constituent who traded in their gray, their second gray for one gray, and got a new blue.

Yes, so but they were not charged for the new blue.

Currently, currently that is the okay.

So that does not start until October.

Right.

Right, October one.

So, but October one, will they be charged for that second gray?

Yes, yeah.

The council get modified to reflect what they have in their possession.

Okay, thank you for that clarification.

Okay.

Well, I guess they better make the best use of it when we got it.

All righty.

I mean, I'm sure that recycling is always being used wisely.

So, all righty.

Moving on to item number six.

Is that it for questions, comments on item five?

Okay.

Item number six, um, we get to keep Cheryl at the table here.

Ordinance amending title 11a, toss it revised ordinances, stormwater management and hazard mitigation program, chapter two.

Stormwater drainage system service charge, section 202.

Right schedule, increasing the monthly stormwater service charge rate by seven percent from thirteen dollars and sixty-nine cents per month to fourteen dollars and sixty-five cents per month, providing an operative debt date of October 1st, 2026.

Okay, um, this was also in the April 29th meeting where we went over we had a PowerPoint and we went over these changes, and and like you said, it's uh seven percent increase, and that's effective October 1st also.

Okay, yeah, I appreciate all the information you gave us at that meeting, by the way.

It's very informative.

Any questions uh, Councilor Bangle?

Um, where if I remember it correctly, there's supposed to be GIS mapping.

That's being done for project purchase public.

Correct.

That's that's still worth it's a it's not a minority.

I know it's all to do that.

We've had to talking about this, I think for the last three years.

You know, we we finished up our mapping that shows public um responsibilities as far as like mowing and general maintenance.

Uh so we've got that now.

Um, getting all of the creeks and channels is still one of the Eric's group with uh the GIS group is still up there.

Yeah, because this is pretty significant, especially when we're talking about uh property erosion, like some um areas within portions of my district that have a lot of floodplain, um, and that border like the uh ace track park between 28th and 29th Street.

There are properties that are worried about the erosion because of that storm water, what do they call these creeks?

How it's defined creeks channels.

One side I think is public, that's maintained by public works at parks.

If there's like a joint thing going on over there, then the other side I think belongs to the development, and that would be private, and I think that's where the real the real confusion is.

We talk about we talked about this all the time.

So that's where I want the citizens to be armed about what is their responsibility versus what is public, especially when we're talking about that specific fee, right?

But still, it's coming, just don't have a because obviously, but the less permeable surface you have, the more you're gonna get charged.

So on commercial, yes, yeah, yeah.

Okay, any questions, comments regarding item number six?

Okay, moving on to item number seven ordinance amending the Tulsa revised ordinances title 11 public works department chapter 12, right of way occupancy management by amending subsection one two zero six A 3A of section 1206, occupancy fees or inspection fee and service charge, increasing the amount of occupancy fee to be charged to occupancy permit holders in order to recover each permit holder's pro-rata pro rate of share of the burden of the right of way, providing an effective date of July 1st, 2026, repealing ordinance and conflict here with emergency clause.

There's a lot of occupancy words in there, uh okay.

Annually, um the total arterial right-of-way operating and capital expenditures are calculated and divided among arterial right-of-way occupants.

This year's calculation resort resulted in an additional one cents per linear fit for installations that occupy less than a foot, two cents per linear foot for installations that occupy between one and two feet, three cents per linear fit for installations occupying greater than two feet, and the resulting annual revenue increase is about 4,500.

So it was really close to last year's calculation.

Okay, any questions, comments regarding item number seven?

Oh, you're released.

You may be dismissed.

Alrighty, moving on to item number eight discussion with the auditor or his designee regarding a proposed plan and possible timelines for how to accomplish the directives of the recently approved ordinance regarding data transparency and public access.

Brought to you by Councillor Ballis.

And we have Nathan at the table.

Um I'll just preface, and Nathan, if you wouldn't mind reminding everyone the policy change that the council took as like it's a preface for a fresh everyone.

Yeah, it's in the presentation.

Perfect.

You just go from here then, thank you.

Thanks for having me.

I wanted to uh since the ordinance passed, I wanted to make sure we're all on the same page and get your input as we look at moving forward to accomplish the ordinance and its directives.

Um, got a presentation here.

Oops, okay.

Uh this is our mission for those who aren't familiar with the city auditor's office.

Um it's to be an independent and partial office dedicated to ensuring accountability, transparency, and efficiency in city government.

And so the first question is kind of what does data transparency look like at the city of Tulsa?

And let's see here.

What I want to do is kind of take you through a little bit of the history.

And from our city's website in 2013, the city received the highest A plus rating from the Sunshine Review Organization for Government Transparency.

And in 2013, the Tulsa City Council actually adopted the open and accessible data resolution with direction to provide more data online and work towards a higher level of transparency.

Just a few things from that that I thought were really helpful is the reasons for that City Council resolution is committed to bringing the community into City Hall by engaging citizens and soliciting their ideas, input, and creative energy.

The City of Tulsa was committed to using technology to foster open, transparent, and accessible government.

And wanted to see increased opportunities for economic development, investment, civic engagement for citizens of Tulsa, wanted to improve transparency, access to city information, and wanted to enhance citizen communication.

So what the resolution was was to provide open and accessible data, establish the goal to continually work toward an increased range and volume of data it shares with citizens, businesses, and other jurisdictions, the greatest amount possible while respecting privacy and security concerns as identified by the city attorney.

And so we had a lot of a lot of good information on the website in an open data portal.

It's a little hard to find, but you can still find it if you search for it.

Some of that data is rather old now, and I think one example that I would share is the 311 data that's up there.

And that was kind of the call data.

And so I think what we've seen is kind of this open data, be better at certain times and then less at certain times.

And in 24, we got the What Works City certification, which we were certified as silver, which meant that you know we're not in the very top tier, but we we were past a lot of cities that weren't able to get certified.

And one thing to move us to the higher tier, which is gold or platinum, was deeper public transparency.

And so just a few things that have happened in the past that I wanted to bring up.

The ordinance adopted to Councillor Bellis' point that was adopted in May of 26 was that the city auditors shall promote transparency and public access to information by identifying, collecting, reviewing, and providing data and records maintained by or for the benefit of the city of Tulsa.

So it's got six directives in there.

First is to identify all the data sets, and then second is to maintain by the city of Tulsa.

The second one is to identify all the data sets maintained by public trusts and authorities.

And then three is to prioritize the collection and publication of that data.

And I just want to highlight based on the budget provided, because as we look at doing this, we'll we will need budget.

And so review and prepare such data and records for release by organizing, standardizing where necessary, and then let's see, making such data and records available to the public, coordinate when appropriate with city departments and officials.

So that's what the that's what the ordinance called for.

That's the directives we have now in my office.

And so wanted to quick, does anyone have any questions so far?

Keep going here.

Okay.

So what is deeper transparency look like?

One example is the Boston Open Data Portal.

This is they've got a team that completes 60 plus projects per year.

Their open data portal has over 251 data sets.

They kind of range from property and housing, financial, where you've got a checkbook explorer, public safety, which is prime and 311, government transparency, geospatial infrastructure.

So those are kind of the areas that we see in these open data portals.

The Columbus City Auditor has a transparency portal, and that's on their own website, and that's their data hub there.

Tulsa County is also pretty far ahead on the open data side.

So they use OpenGov to push out all of their checks, that you can review the revenues, expenses, things like that in a very interactive way.

And then I wanted to touch on what happens to organizational charts when city auditors take on other duties.

So and to kind of preface that city auditors, we make opinions based on our audits.

We have to remain very independent and objective when we do that.

So we can't just stick people over doing administrative management type of work and then put them on an audit.

They usually have to be out of that field for I think three years before they can audit in that field.

So we have to keep the internal auditors kind of separate.

One is Denver.

They have a whole department that actually audits businesses for labor rights complaints.

And so you can kind of see how they stack up on the lower right, where Denver Labor has about 37 employees that are investigating labor complaints on businesses in the community.

But then they have their audit services, and so they separate them with different manager managers and and then all different employees.

The other one that I found interesting.

Oh, go ahead.

I just have a quick question.

Isn't that more like a state level here?

Yes, here it is.

Okay, so it's not something that we would implement.

It's something that's no, I'm not asking for that.

No, no, I'm just saying, I'm using it as an example.

Yes, yeah, of different things than just the audit side.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, okay, thank you.

And then Portland, um, I would say that this is Portland, Oregon, you know, that they've been maybe struggling over the years a little bit.

And so they actually had a commissioner form of government still, and they decided to go ahead and switch that to see if that could help in on January 1st, 2025.

And so when they did that, they went to a strong mayor's council form of government and their and the city auditor, and it was interesting to see kind of what they decided the city auditors' duties should be in addition to internal audit services.

Um so they're doing the archives and records management, ombudsman, council clerk, elections, hearing office, operations management.

So again, I'm not asking for those duties, but uh just showing you that they they definitely keep them separate as different divisions within their department.

Okay, so this is this is what I'm kind of proposing as far as what our department would look like for adding the this other office of data transparency.

Um so I wanted to kind of show that to you to just get that in front of you now.

Um, and I'm not asking for this for this year, so I'll show you kind of my implementation plan, and but this is what we're looking at for probably the next fiscal year.

So, what does City of Tulsa implementation look like?

Um, this is my proposed timeline, and I'm happy to discuss and talk through it.

But what we would basically do is starting in this next fiscal year, 2026, we would probably have Dr.

Stout as the deputy auditor working on identifying the majority of city data sets and current processes, identity majority, identifying majority of ABC data sets, and then November prioritizing those data sets, and then in December coming back to you, presenting that prioritization.

In the ordinance, it says it's based on.

Let me see if I can go back.

So that's what we would come to you and um provide.

And then with that, we would um give kind of budget options as far as like how much of this do you want to um implement over the next over the next years, build out our division policies and procedures, website positions, and then that next fiscal year hire the team and implement.

And that concludes the presentation.

Can we get uh copies or emails for this with this the presentation?

I would have really appreciated that.

I wouldn't.

Oh, is it in the back?

Okay, it might just not have been when it was.

Oh, it's not yeah, it's not in my backup today.

It might have just been added after.

Yeah.

Um, um, okay, counselor Bellas.

Yeah, I um I'll be curious.

So part of what makes me excited about some of like building out these data transparency portals is knowing some of the um data resources we used to have as a city.

This is pre-ransomware attack.

Um, I think a lot about, and I could probably connect with this person already, you know, Carlos Marino.

With when we had the urban data pioneers, we did have these rich city like kind of data assets and maps and resources that were publicly posted, and they just never came back after the ransomware attack.

And we also I wish I could remember his last name right now.

There was someone within the police department, then something who was part of like he generated some really phenomenal data and maps, and he would go to community spaces and just share them so that people could learn and understand about um you know different safety things and or just police data transparency in their area, and it was really beneficial.

And again, post-ransomware attack, just all of those public facing resources just went away.

So I do see this as a really good opportunity to create some more resiliency to data transparency and then having it come from the auditor and creating that kind of neutral space for different data sets to be regularly publicly accessible is really exciting.

I think um kind of this question mark I have is you know, I remember when um James Wagner when he was over, he was like when he was like chief of innovation and whatever it was, he was the one that was over that um urban like the urban pioneers uh group, the data pioneers group, and um I think a lot of the functionality of that over time has shifted to I think it's the opsie department.

So I do wonder about this is just a question mark.

Like what are they responsible for?

How does this potentially feed in to what you all do?

Acknowledging that these are very separate agencies and entities.

It's just a curiosity.

Uh yeah.

I don't want to pull my miller up on the C.

Yeah, I guess I'm not sure.

My understanding is because we had a question about that in our audit committee meeting, but my understanding is it's now the the Department of Performance and Accountability.

Oh, okay.

And so it doesn't have that same kind of open data focus or even a data focus, really, from like a, you know, you've got like you don't have to I don't believe there's data answer.

Yeah, you get to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

That'll be coming to the table.

He is probably.

Yes, you're so you're so invited.

Well, and I just want to clarify that's actually that's helpful to know.

I didn't know that it had shifted away from that open data focus.

So that makes this to me more critical about getting information out there, but so no, we um like Miller with uh mayor's office, the administrator.

Um we've had this conversation again at the audit committee.

Um, I don't know.

Yeah, he just turned it off.

Just leave it, sorry.

Can we just move that mic back and turn that on our phone?

No, just no.

Okay, yeah, both enough.

That's the still kind of a rookie at this.

My apologies.

That's how it was.

They know the numbers on these, so we don't ever have to.

Okay.

Okay.

Maybe we should maybe we should start over and you can re ask the question and then I will be maybe locked in.

Okay, so the former Off C office, now performance and management, it sounds like has a slightly different shifter focus from the open data element.

So I think it's just understanding how this that work does or doesn't align with this audit shift.

Yeah, so I think yeah, thank you for helping me get back from that.

Yeah, no problem.

Um we have some of that now with uh data governance through our data governance board, and um Chris, I think sits on that board, you know, as a as a representative from the council's office.

Um, and we do have people that are doing that work.

Um it's primarily through our IT department now.

It's still being done, it's just maybe not separated out as a uh as a distinct unit just due to the reorgs that we we've done over the last few months or last, I should say, year or so.

Okay, that's helpful.

So, like so I can see that so therefore so when you say data governance, right?

I assume that has to do with right, like data sharing, government governance across bodies or maybe external entities, which is definitely a bit different than or even for performance management.

Well it'll be very helpful because this ordinance talks about the data that is public data, and the data governance is really a great process in place to ensure that the data that allows each department to determine what is public data, and then and then there's processes to work through that.

Okay, that's really helpful.

Right, we we we want to take very seriously keeping um you know citizen data for instance from becoming public data that and when it shouldn't necessarily so and that's where I feel it's important that we level set the expectation of what would be considered accessible, transparent public data versus because some people might get the idea that I can start pulling data for like public safety stuff and other things of that nature that have restrictions.

Yeah, I think that gets into pre-like when things are aggregated and de-identified versus like you're right, more specific like instances and the challenges there.

Well, and I also am thinking about since it came up in our last kind of discussion, one of our discussions earlier related to um the trash contract and some of that.

You also then end up separately with these other data sharing moments in private contracts, and I know that the governance probably has policies there, so um I feel like there's probably a lot of frameworks for that, um, compared to so Nathan, just an auditor.

Sorry.

Um, out of curiosity, is it then like you would be able to like kind of pull reports that are generated from that data from like within that data governance space to then just like share publicly once if it's determined that it's all shareable, or is it that you all are then generating your own reports?

I'm just trying to like, um, well, with open data, it's it's a little less report.

It's more query.

Like at a more um, are you planning to then create a dashboard sandbox kind of situation?

I'm not sure yet on that.

Okay.

Yeah, I could understand a sandbox might be a bit much, but a dashboard could be a little like just like a tableau or whatever could be feasible, maybe okay.

Yeah, and I I would just bring up to Counselor Bengals' uh point.

It says review uh item four on the ordinance says review and prepare such data and records for at least by organizing, standardizing, and we're necessary redacting or anonymizing information to ensure compliance with applicable laws.

Um then there's also that was the main the main one, I think that kind of goes towards that.

I was trying to see if there was anything about what data is public, but yeah, and and number three, the process of um making sure that it's it's provided with input from the public, the mayor, and the city council, um and that it has the potential to improve transparency, accountability, and public understanding.

Okay, is that yeah, I can't see your yeah, okay.

Councillor Bain.

Yeah, so um almost got off track.

Um so is there an intent to identify what is actually city maintained data versus service?

Subscription service data.

Because I would assume that if we decide not to use a service from a specific vendor, who owns that data?

Because there's historical data that I'm sure you would want to retain beyond a service subscription.

And that I mean almost everything is shifting to that.

That's why I'm saying that's an idea.

Because we're not maintaining server farms anymore.

Because it's not as cost of effective.

So that's are you going to be identifying those and are we going to have some historical data retention repository that you or someone is going to be identified to maintain?

You shake it in your hand.

So each one of these, each one of these agreements.

I think I can't address every agreement.

Each one of these agreements has their own way of how that's handled.

Yeah.

But still that's our data.

So is there the intentional?

Is there intent to draw up a policy about retention of that data, even though we no longer subscribe to that service?

That's still our data.

I think that's part of what the data governance review does.

I just want to outline what they're working on, and I can give you more specifics about it later.

And we're in the middle of a data governance audit as well.

So that'll be coming out with some.

Great question, sir.

Stuff is dangerous.

Building out division policies and procedures.

So that's where we kind of get into that side.

Okay.

Counselor or Archie?

Oh, um.

I don't know if I have much much else to contribute.

I appreciate this.

I guess there's a there's a difference between available data and then usable data.

And maybe Councilor Council Bells was speaking to whatever we come up with, you know.

I just imagine from the user's end, a resident going on the website, being able to I don't know, um do an inquiry to you know find you know some sort of data, but do they understand it?

Is it is it understandable to where they can use it for digestible?

Yeah, digestible.

Um what's how how are you thinking about that?

Yeah, usually usually on the open data side, it's really making it available for researchers and and people to use the data to do their research, and so it's it's not as much like doing the research and showing it to them.

I mean, that is what we do on the audit side a little more if we come up with an opinion and a summary report, but but um yeah, for the open data side it's more just pushing it out so that it can be used for research, okay.

Yeah, because when I when people when people use the word transparency, it's a it's a loaded term.

I feel like when people say transparency to me, they say I'm a lay person, give me some sort of understandable uh presentation of what yeah, a very complicated system is doing.

Yeah, and and so I think as long as part of what you're producing is that I think it will satisfy people's desire for transparency.

And that is where like previously the data pioneers came into play where they could use that data, and then um it was all volunteer-based, but making those into presentations to be helpful to others.

Okay, and that's where I think level setting of the what this is going to be versus what people might think it's going to be.

Okay, do we have any further questions or comments for Nathan?

Nope.

Okay.

Moving.

I'd like a third color.

Uh moving on to item number nine, we are adjourned.

It's like you have to.