All right.

Uh good afternoon and welcome to the 1 p.m.

budget and special projects committee meeting.

Today is Wednesday, June 17th.

Item number one, I call this meeting to order two.

Ordinance adopting the annual budget of the city of Tulsa for the fiscal year 2026-2027, ordering the transfer of enterprise income to the general fund appropriated appropriating unexpended balances for grant funds and capital projects funds for fiscal year 2026 order ordering and directing the uh computation and filing of levy requirements for the 26-27 sinking fund of the city of Tulsa, Oklahoma reserving fund, a balance of 10% as an emergency operating consistency in the general fund.

And then I'm going to read item number three, also ordinance approving the adopted the capital improvement plan for the city of Tulsa for fiscal year 27 through 31 as part of the uh fiscal year 26-27 annual budget for ordinance amending title 43K of the Tulsa Revised Ordinances, which is the City of Tulsa's expenditure policy for the 2017 limited purpose economic development temporary sales tax amending the projects and purposes for which expenditures and proceeds may lawfully be made, providing for severality.

Here we go.

All right.

Any questions?

Any discussion?

Yes, Councilor Director Wright.

Yes, here we are again.

Small budget meeting uh was held earlier today to reflect back some of the discussion that we had last week and throughout this week.

I know different folks have had different conversations with community partners, stakeholders, constituents, and um staff uh here in uh city hall just to get clarity on those like lingering questions.

I know emails had come through, so we took time this morning.

We uh at the small budget committee, council uh myself, um counselor Lake and of course our chair and vice chair all sat down with the mayor and his team to really iron out these final questions and around the biggest budget item that we talked about last week was the six million dollar allocation for Safe Move Tulsa.

So, through the meeting today, we came to a consensus that we all recognize that the projected cost for the next fiscal year are um targeted to be six million dollars with private funding to match, and that we're all committed to working at a pace over the next year to achieve that goal.

But we're also going to work towards establishing a more standardized reporting uh for this good work that we know is so needed in the community, and um we just really want to elevate um to our community partners and to the providers doing this work every day that we are um thankful and committed to the work, and we recognize what they're doing every day to achieve these goals as a collective.

So, um, I think it's a good compromise and a collaborative discussion that we ended up with after last week.

Um, so hopefully we'll see more of a quarterly reporting that's more standardized.

We're gonna do some work on our side.

Does it really set those expectations of what we want to see and how we want to see it come to the table?

And then I think we got some commitments from staff to make that work.

Right, yeah, yep.

Yes, Councilor Arching.

So I appreciate the update because I was I was gonna ask about that.

So the love the quarterly updates just regularly.

What's what's happening, but um, the funding will be given in a way that uh it's just reliable, predictable for our for our partners to the housing solutions can make the contracts and all that.

Yes, I I I regret that some interpretation was that we were requesting quarterly contracts just to provide clarity.

That's not what the city has requested, just quarterly reports.

I just want quarterly reports so we can keep updated on that.

I don't know where new and where that came from or how it came to be in our emails with the same message from repeated folks.

So whoever they got that information from, that that's not what we requested.

But we are going to hold an accountability and transparency measure of quarterly reports to make sure we're on pace and meeting benchmarks and outcomes because this is a new program we're all creating together in a in a you know very large investment that we need to steward well.

Well, that's important, thank you.

All right, counselor Bellis.

Yeah, transparently.

I had um heard the quarterly reporting piece during last Wednesday's meeting.

I was like, okay, that's my takeaway about what we're asking for.

That makes sense.

I know we all want to see certain data indicators, and then when I was asking and learning more about the functionality, um, and had um, you know, asked internal council staff, they um it was mentioned that there would probably need to be amended contracts to go with that for the disbursements, which is like what was my first understanding, which led me to just so you want to led me to ask it as nonprofits going, hey, what would that look like for you if that's like and I wasn't sure if that was with housing solutions, so I did start with Mark who had that impression.

He would like that's who first alerted me was hearing from housing solutions that that may be necessary for how the dollars flow and ask someone with a nonprofit who has a lot of contracts and goes through really the ringer to get them updated even with simple amendments that had made me concerned just for the functionality for those nonprofits.

So I had reached out, so I you know wasn't trying to spark any type of chain of misinformation, but that was my initial impression was that this would require quarterly amendments to contracts, um, which Sarah just confirmed with me from setting from the small budget meeting that it could be more like a change order, and then that it sounds like housing solutions should be able to do broad annual contracts, which is obviously a big relief.

Can you just explain it for everyone then to have the same information?

So I think I think part of this has to do with um from the year the program started versus your fiscal year, right?

Right.

So the program didn't start July 1 last year, it started later in the year, so you did a year's worth of funds based on an estimate, right?

Because it was our first time to do it.

So currently on the current contract, there are funds to kind of take people through um September in housing people, and so if you do an additional um 1.5 million, like we talked about, um, with working towards that goal of still doing six million in the second year of this program in next fiscal year.

Um, that that should take you a couple of months uh into the year.

So you're almost at mid-year on your spend rate.

So then, as you do your quarterly reports, and it's another budget amendment comes um for this the city's contract is with housing solutions as the sole source is the just for the public, there are continuum of care provider, um, and so then you just do a change order on that contract for housing solutions to increase the amount.

So if you get to September, and now it's estimated an additional funds for the next quarter are at 1.4 million or they're at 2.7 million, then you have that estimate and you can do that change order, working towards that up to six million goal.

Which is very standard operating when we have contracts.

So, yeah, yeah, okay.

That just gives us the opportunity to leave.

Right, which yeah, definitely a fan of that mechanism.

Yeah, my concern had just I was just trying my concern had been if downstream it was creating work for some of these smaller entities, or I guess sometimes you think it's just a simple amendment, and then it turns out it's never that simple, or they could rack up legal fees.

So that was really me wanting to ensure that we were you know keeping the lift on like that collective impact-like housing solutions in ourselves and not putting a bunch of the direct service providers or also acknowledging with like things like federal funding and stability, making sure that we weren't adding some layer of uncertainty to the providers themselves about can we maintain staffing or things like that, which I know and I really appreciate what counselor director I just said, going we're committed to this work, but we're also taking fiscal responsibility to start the dollars and make sure that outcomes are matching with what we have committed to doing.

There's no interference with the what the nonprofits are doing to um assist.

So thank you all so much.

Alright, I have counselor Bush, then Counselor Hall Harper and Counselor Lake.

Yeah, as we set up the matrix for reporting out quarterly, I think we need to have some sort of better um financial reporting of where the money's coming from and where it's going, what the return on the investment is, because I gotta go back and sell this, and right now it's not selling.

The math's not mathing, and my constituents are not happy with this because they're not seeing the return on that investment.

So I don't know, you mentioned Mr.

I'm looking at you because you mentioned a committee of some folks there.

I want to, you know, make sure that we have that in.

We we do that in our business investments.

With all of us, we do it with our private businesses, and it's got to be done here.

We did emphasize that there are very skilled civil servants that know how to do dashboards and reporting that makes sense, and that is very transparent, and we strongly emphasize that those people need to be providing the reporting.

Yes.

So I don't know if any of y'all want to speak more to it.

Oh yeah, I can now, or I can limit it.

Let's talk about it.

Uh sure.

Are you okay with that?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I was asking as a lot of things.

Oh, I'm sorry, she was next.

Go ahead, you may answer my questions.

So, I I think what we talked about was just having a standard rhythm for these next four quarters on day 45, just as an example, we get this kind of report, and the executive branch gets it, then we get to discuss it, then the committee reports out, and then just standardizing what we see up on the screen too.

Um we we have just different presentations made to us, and they don't necessarily blend together with what we saw the previous time.

So if we just report is what you saw last time, this is how it's changed from last time.

These are the numbers, these are the returns, these are the outcomes that I think will all be far better off and being able to measure it and being able to communicate that to our constituents as well.

Yeah, and I want to make sure the math maths because we've had presentations where slide A and slide B is it's real vague and off, yeah.

Okay, okay, I'm not that smart math, but one in one doesn't equal four.

What?

So we're just exactly all right.

Are you done?

I'm doing for now.

Okay, for now, counselor Hall Parker.

So in addition to that, um I love the uh the process of making sure we are we can clearly see different format, right?

Or an infrastructure of reporting so we can see and track.

That's great.

Um the only other thing I would like to add is when we receive when we the council receive those quarterly reports, can we put on the uh agenda a five o'clock agenda an opportunity for citizens to come and give public community questions because we get questions from people in the community about things they're seeing in their neighborhoods?

And we may or may not see those.

So just an opportunity for the citizens to be able to do.

Would that go under like for Age?

At the same time, yeah.

On the day where we discussed it, and the quarterly as well.

Yeah.

Do you want us to look out options too to like if a community needs extra question and answer time so they're not limited by the timer, like even outside events or things like that, too.

Like if you all know you've got a neighborhood that's got a lot of questions, rather than asking the whole neighborhood to come down.

Could we we could arrange two for people to ask?

So just let us know who those people are so that we can go also out to it.

However, if you looked out, I just community.

We have just them administration talking to council, but okay.

So yeah, I've got financial reporting and ROI, and then community idea on outcomes and questions.

Okay, that was a good idea.

Yeah, all right.

Uh Councilor Lakin, do you have anything else you want to say?

I would just say we talked about looking at what other communities are producing right now to see if we can find reports that we like and tend to provide the kinds of information that we need so that we can replicate those rather than creating them.

So there's probably something out there.

I'm sure there's a time.

Not guaranteed necessarily because we're a little bit different in the way that we've designed this program, but clutch may have some information, for example, that they can share with us as to what other communities are using.

Yeah, so we'll we'll get something that's communities our size, not like what Houston is doing, or Pittsburgh.

Yeah.

So what would you do?

Yeah, our our goal is to get standardized reporting that shows outcomes, metrics, financials, etc.

Uh counselor Dr.

Wright, right?

Yes.

The other thing that we did elevate was as the work continues and we recognize this new program, we're building it out.

We need to be informed early and often on decommissioning or a new initiative.

Like we cannot learn about these things in press releases or through the media.

And we just emphasize that again that communication is key so that we can move together and have a deep understanding so that when constituents contact us we're not in the dark about what they're asking about.

I don't like saying I have no idea right right so every day.

Yeah in our form of government we're not um we don't have contracting authority so we're exercising the authority over fiscal management and oversight on this and other things as well.

So I agree.

All right uh counselor Dutton yeah I want to amplify what counselor Bush and Councillor Dr Wright said as well as Council Melissa Paul Harper in that I think if we get regular updates for these decommissionings that are happening more than just a phone call or uh an advanced notice of you know 10 hours or something before it occurs I think it would be helpful for the community as well because I do hear a lot from my constituents on the situation that seems perceived to be increasing in district three and I think if I can also offer them some information going forward I think that would be really helpful to keep the program up and going.

Counselor Bingle yeah so obviously it's like building a ship where we've laid the key and now we're having to build the rest of the boat around it so we're still not I can and I'm not even going to be in the Navy I'm curious as to where this metaphor is going so I think so it's the vote before three or two gosh goes move on the dog.

So I ship is exactly so uh obviously communication is the key don't keep going like an I saw that um so that's one of the things that we talked about and as you know the other counselors talk about you know looking at different organizations how they're reporting this stuff and being scrubbed scrutinizing how we're using these funds notwithstanding the previous funding mechanisms that we were reusing weren't now using general fund dollars wholly in this work and so we have to be more transparent and people want to know how that money is being spent how we're how impactful we're being in that investment so hopefully in the building of this boat um we can finally create a mature system and going through this at the initial outset and being as having these reporting quarterly reportings that will allow us if we potentially have to scale up funding we're not going to have to go through this exercise as frequently at least that's my own very well said captain.

The work record I I know we also talked about um not just having uh housing solutions and Emily at these meet at these updates but also bringing in those uh nonprofits that are doing the work for literacy um exactly so that we we all have a better understanding of the work that's being done out there so uh counselor dector right are you done counselor or Captain Bangle yes I am okay all right um okay counselor dector right and then counselor bellis the other thing I just wanted to remind us all of uh was not just the quarterly reporting and and changing the format but also to add that that prevention language so that that's also captured in what we're voting on today as I think Sarah came to the table too.

Yeah.

Expound on that.

I moved in.

Could you tell if I wanted to say something?

So email.

On this is just an updated technical change memo that reflects um the conversation of the quarterly reporting um so I think you've you all have covered that well.

Do you think more?

Yeah.

And so the other change on the technical change memo is related to the trail safety enforcement.

So you'll see that at the top.

Yeah, we can share.

It's okay.

There you go.

You'll see that you'll see that at the top under police that $60,000 that is added and that we talked about last time at committee.

And then the other change isn't gonna be on the technical change memo because it was just expanding that language on the ground ordinance, which is also on your agenda today, um, and so it just adds the word homelessness, but adds and prevention.

Um so as you continue to develop your programs um for prevention that maybe either came out of the eviction coalition um or other initiatives that you all have worked on in the past um regarding the sprint um and things, then that bucket could be available um in the future for those dollars, and I think that is it on the changes, everything else on the memo should be as as it was last week.

Thank you.

I do think maybe the font is a bit bigger.

It's on needle size, yes, as requested, much easier on old eyes.

Yes, I give you my pen.

So we did mention we did talk about the deputy director of the emergency management also just also getting uh reports from the new manager on how things are right.

So um, so last week we talked about um the budget would be as proposed in FY27 for emergency management, um, and fund that was your intention to fund that, but then once the new director comes in, um, have them come and explain the scope of services because it does sound like the scope is a little bit different than when um we had a combined system, um, what they will emphasize um in their new role, um, what our gaps are, and then what is their plan to staff that um or contract that or whatever their financial needs are to carry out their mission um under that model?

So our hope is that you have that before you have to get into budget discussions um in FY28.

That's what they're right.

I'm very concerned about this, and I think I made myself abundantly clear what my concerns are.

Um, engaging the public, I'm getting concerned from them as well because they weren't fully aware.

You know, we had an announcement in October that this thing was happening, but I went back and looked, and the only dollars mentioned were 85 to 95,000 that they counted with invest to replace that director position in the reporting and the memos and um press releases.

There was nothing about what the cost to the city would be.

So I just want to amplify that for me.

The first time I was aware of cost was when we got the budget, and then on May 20, so that May 13th, we had the discussion with the commissioner initially.

May 21st, there was some letters sent that we got resent to us on Monday.

Um, and then the discussion we had.

So while I appreciate that once we hire somebody to come tell us how the service delivery is going to be different, better, more intensive.

I have a lot of heartburn about a 61.5% increase to create a thing that in large part seems very duplicated.

Having been on this council with counselor Hall Harper and Counselor Lakin through the historic floods through tornadoes through a pandemic, through a Derecho, through other tornadoes, with some of you more recently.

What was that there, so the straight line wins over Juneteenth, Father's Day storm in 2023.

100 mile hour winds.

Wiped out, I think it's called a direct room.

I don't know if I said direct echo.

Um, yeah, in the eight years I have served, we have dealt with a lot of natural disasters.

We've dealt with a cyber attack, and um we had all eyes on us during a commemoration that involved FBI surveilling and making sure that certain folks in our community are safe because there were threats.

We've had a presidential visit, we've had a lot of need for a coordinated emergency response.

And in my assessment, which is just as a citizen really, I had never heard that something was missing or that we didn't get what we needed.

I have heard in the last eight months that sirens aren't sounding at the right time or at all.

We've heard why that is, but I'm just saying the perception is we are trying to create something new that is being perceived as not as good at a much bigger price tag.

Also, as we talk about a 1.22 billion dollar budget, it is very easy for us to sit here and go, Well, 200,000 is minimal when you think about 1.22 billion.

But when you think about community partners who are trying to find $3 a day so kids can swim in the park uh pool that we all invested in, or then are trying to provide uh evening and weekend activities for teenagers this summer, so they're not where they're not supposed to be, and they are doing that work on 50 or 60 or 75,000 a year.

That 200,000 a year starts to seem meaningful.

So I feel like the vote today means we're just not going back to the table with the county.

We're gonna create our own thing and it's going to have accelerated costs, and I'm deeply uncomfortable with that, especially the way it was rolled out to us and the public.

Um, it's no, you know, Commissioner Roberts is tasked with keeping us safe, and she's taken this on because a decision was made.

Um, for future for us when decisions like this are made, we definitely need to ask immediately what is the cost outcome of this decision.

I regret that in November or October when we heard about it, I didn't ask that question.

I read in the paper 85 to 95,000 for a position, which I actually thought was quite affordable and maybe too low for what we're asking of somebody to be in charge of all of this.

Um, and I don't know what the market rate is for a certified emergency manager.

Clearly, in our budget, we're coming in at a much higher dollar amount to attract and retain a professional.

So this is of everything that's been proposed in the budget, this is the one that's causing me the most pause, especially as we several of us up here have been advocated for other reforms around public safety and have been told that we don't have the dollars to do it.

That good Sam at 140,000 a year is outside of what we can deliver, um, some of these things that we have elevated with the previous administration and carried forward into this administration.

$200,000 in the grant scope of $1.22 billion is nominal, but is impactful when we talk about $20,000 to help Main Street or $70,000 to get an X-ray machine at animal welfare, and those are amendments that we've made on the day of a budget vote.

So I just would be remiss if I did not speak to it here today.

Counselor Bellis.

I was initially in the cute, but sorry, answered what I was gonna ask.

But I do want to follow up on that because I'm glad you served this to um I was I've been really concerned by like what I've perceived as change without change management, or at least what's been presented to us.

Um, or we I don't think we really heard like the clear examples of what the shortcomings were of the prior model that I just feel really unclear about that, and I know we all want to know that decisions are you know data driven and make financial sense, and I think what's hard is during what's clearly a transition period, and this is where I wish I understood the change management plan better along with the dollars.

Like I at least, you know, we prior to the change used to get these very regular updates in our inboxes that we could communicate with constituents about you know data from National Weather Service.

Let's look at what to expect, and there was quite a lapse in us receiving that information for a stretch of time, which that's what makes me most curious in that change management process.

Um, and so then it is hard to see that then post-that split without having clear here's the data that drove this decision, which I know we've asked for, but we haven't really seen that case laid out, then seeing the additional cost is really challenging.

Um, and so I do I want to elevate what you're saying because I share those concerns.

Um, I understand that there's an argument we've heard about hey, like this isn't an you know, it's not atypical for city and counties to have um separate uh models, but at the same time, I still don't know what the example is of hey, here's this consistent data informed issue that drove this decision, um, and then taking on that additional cost when we could be still cost sharing like we had been, is troubling to me.

So I'm glad you surfaced that.

I just don't know what the answer is.

But at this point, I yeah, just a sunset.

Yeah, and I think it's one of those we're over a year downstream of a call having been made without a lot of again, change management, communication, clear case being laid out, and I think at that time I didn't even know when that decision was made that there were budget implications in the way that there have been, exactly, and so I think that's the other hard part is we're getting really lagging information related to those budget implications.

All right, counselor Bangle and then Lincoln.

Yeah, so when I found out about this, I think we were on the inner city to salt at Salt Lake, if I remember correctly.

Um, and then we're hearing about what the cost impacts are going to be much later.

Yeah, and so yeah, just like Councilor Dr.

Wright said, I didn't hear that this was going to be an increase or that we were gonna stand this up until the budget came out and it was gonna be as much more expensive as it was.

I said this a hundred times.

I don't care what Oklahoma City is doing, and I don't care what anybody else thinks at this table, if they disagree with me, I don't care what somebody else is doing.

If our partnerships work, you don't dissolve it just because whomever at some national organization or whatever says this is best practice, at least articulate, and if there's financial impacts to the budget, we're responsible for figuring out where those fundings come from and how we pay for it.

Just look the small sixty thousand dollars that we're talking about, about dealing with the um, river parks issue, and we had to figure out where to come pay for that.

This far exceeds that.

So, I have an issue where people make decisions that we have to figure out the budget for, and we're not part of that discussion because I still have not heard a rationalization.

I don't care about a letter from a national organization, and I don't care what other communities are doing.

As you said, I haven't heard of any meet needs not being met.

So I stand with you a hundred percent in what you said, and that's why I supported you when you did make that Facebook post, because I still cannot wrap in my head around why we did this.

But what are our options aside of just we might not have any of that?

I I still haven't heard what our options are.

I feel like we were handcuffed without a I did ask of discussion.

I did ask internally if we only came to the table with 163, which is what we've been funding.

What does that do?

Does it make us go back to the county and try to reinstitute an agreement?

Or do we have that option?

I know Councilor Lakin last week I said we have no options.

You said we always have options to restart the conversation.

Or can I get a clarifying question related to that 163?

If that's what's been allocated to it right now and we've been separate for the past how long?

What has that been?

We have an interim emergency manager and commissioner Roberts, she's not a certified, okay.

That's the difference.

Is the difference just the person being full time?

Which also it's a certified person.

So newly, yeah.

Okay, that's the that's the track and the equipment and all that other thing.

There's there's a lot of certifications that city employees get for that.

Yes, that's right.

I'm just wondering for the past, how many months since the split happened, we've just had reduced capacity, and now we're trying to get back up to the full time.

I don't know.

I don't know, but has any I'm gonna put you on the spot, counselor.

Can you say no?

Has anyone just reached out to the commissioners and said is there opening to have a conversation?

I know because you're not a con like we don't have contract with the wordy, but I know you have relationships, so I just don't feel like you have okay.

I just don't know if it's like can we get back to the table?

I think that the same conversation where I got that 9740 I had a conversation with Commissioner Salie, and I said, I really want to understand how this happened.

Because who made this who made this decision?

I don't care about a letter, but was there something that we can articulate to our citizens?

And when we're talking about duplicative costs, um, can we articulate why we've we've created this separation?

Is there a policy difference?

Because I haven't heard any.

What letter are you within?

It was a state, a state.

There was a state of emergency manager that said, I said national.

I'm writing this letter in support of this decision.

That was May 21st, long after the decision was made.

So I think it was made to back up sent over.

Yeah.

The assertion that go ahead and fund these things is what it felt like.

Two years we've had budget discussions.

We had to figure out whether we're gonna fund Freedom Fest last year, and then also the uh early settlement program.

Those were 50,000 line budget line items.

So this just feels willy-nilly to me.

I'm not happy about it, and I'm gonna stand behind you 100%.

I just don't know what our options are.

I don't know that we have any.

Do we need to stand up a whole office or can we have an interim and negotiate back to a collaboration?

I just don't even know.

Sarah, do you have what our options are?

Not to put you on the spot.

I think I mean, I think at this point, you're pretty you're pretty far down the road on a slow.

So I think if there was something that came back together, um that would take some time.

Um so even if it even if it took some time, you you still need a solution for next year, yeah.

Um, which is is going to require funding a solution for next year.

I think that I guess on the FY, the change you have made is an FY28, um, on your sheet, so it's about halfway down on this front page, um, where you've taken off a hundred and twenty thousand just above a hundred and twenty thousand dollars until you can get a better picture, not for additional of what is going on, and so um the position is is a higher level position.

Um the projected classification is and so you know, I don't know what that person needs.

Do they need a deputy director in this in the same way that they did before?

Do they need different personnel?

Um, until until that office starts and is set up.

Um, I think that's why you made the decision to to ask those questions.

Counselor Director, well, do you have a question for you're still on this item?

Yeah, so going back to personnel, it will be a civil service protected position.

That that's how it's in the budget.

So it gives us even less options.

I just wonder can we not hire an interim emergency manager on a contract basis, and then either be able to revisit over the course of the counselor Bellis' point, we've been doing a thing to date.

We already have a staff member that was hired or moved into that position to help with the communication side, which I agree is better, but not to the level of what we used to receive under Tema.

I think I heard that if there were a disaster today, Tema's going to come and work with us on mitigating it for the region and for all of us.

Um I don't think I misheard that before.

So I'm just wondering if we're not backed into the corner that we all feel like we are, and if we could allocate the 163 for a contract basis coverage, maybe we're contracting the TAMA guy, until we can really put a project plan in place and flesh out why this is so necessary, or or talk to the county and then we're gonna go back to the county.

We have to have strategic conversations with the county about jail and some other things.

So we need to I worry about the perception that we're isolating ourselves, and even if there are policy disagreements or personality conflicts, which you know, we got there on the juvenile justice low barrier shelter it for a time.

We got a letter from the people that wanted to do it saying, Thanks for trying.

It looks like it's not gonna work out, and then we turned the corner.

So we've just got to figure these things out so that the dollars go as far as they can go and deliver the highest service that it can deliver, and right now I'm hearing there's a little bit of like we have no option.

I'm wondering if we do have options.

Can we do it on?

We've already said for fiscal 28, we're not automatically gonna trigger, but this does come with like buying a vehicle, buying equipment, standing up an office, and I just have big concerns about service delivery.

I still have unanswered questions about who will be responsible for testing the equipment for keeping it maintained.

Y'all, we don't do a good job maintaining our state.

We don't.

Where are the dollars to do it?

I don't know.

Is it in this?

Does it come from something else?

Or is that a shared resource with our nearby community partner?

I just don't know enough about it to feel like I'm making a super informed decision.

So I don't know what options we have.

I hear from her, which I do respect that like we're too far into it.

We've just kind of got the I mean at the end of the day, at the end of the day decisions, hiring decisions, contracting decisions, our decisions of the administration and our form of government.

Um so you know that's a that's a that's a key component that's missing as as a partner in this conversation.

And so um I think you know it's it's probably well, and you know, the the specific member of that partnership isn't here, so um I don't I don't wanna like say call somebody on the spot for for an area they're not over.

So um that that is something that that has to be worked out in that way, um, and the council's role is to advise um and make recommendations on administrative practices, and then the administration can can choose to hire or choose to contract um and do those things, and I'm sure like they hear today that you if you are good want to be a partner in helping with those conversations, then you said that and you're here.

Could it be from a budget person?

I've got other from a budgetary perspective.

You appropriate dollars to funds, so the the personnel services, materials supplies, and uh and the contracting bucket.

Um you can appropriate um, but there is there is still space that you know at the end of the day they want to to hire someone um or assign someone that function that's currently employed, you know, that is that's an administrative decision.

Mr.

Miller, would you have anything that you want to add to this from the administration?

But I tried to see I know.

I mean, I think Commissioner Roberts told us her perspective because she's been charged and tasked with doing a thing.

Well, I don't understand.

I know, I got you.

Okay, so in the just because of what she said, yeah.

I did have that conversation with Commissioner Roberts.

Okay, and it was her recommendation that we do this.

Of course.

She recommended it to the pool table, and we got letters of support on Monday, Monday.

Hi, Mr.

Miller.

Hello.

Hello.

I do appreciate what Sarah said earlier, and so my any contribution I might have this conversation is limited to my scope, so I just want to be clear on that, but I could answer any specific.

I'll try to answer any specific questions that you may have.

So can I so I'm hearing a lot of questions about how did we get to this point?

So what what triggered us leaving the county to um some to start up our own?

Yeah, so uh I mean I think uh the mayor said some information around earlier this week.

I think it was relatively comprehensive.

We said to each of you.

Um the uh Commissioner Sims and the mayor had a conversation last year, and both of them agreed that it was a good a good thing to do to split and to have complimentary but separate organizations, and that's the path that they've been pursuing since.

Counselor Bengal, did you have anything else that you wanted to?

Oh, I would stay seated.

Thank you.

Um Counselor Lincoln, I have you on.

Yeah, I you know it's it's frustrating that we've been to so many places um where we've learned how beneficial it is when city and county governments cooperate, right?

Work together, co-manage programs, end up saving money, um, and end up many times with a better product.

So I'm not blaming this on the city.

I'm not blaming it on the county, but when one party leaves a partnership, it's it's kind of hard to do anything but stand up a program of our own because we do have to provide that service.

Which is exactly what we're doing now.

We have no options.

We have to provide the service.

And I want us to provide the very best service.

So I I hesitate on cutting anything.

Or delaying or because I want our citizens to have the very the very best services.

But I still want to get back together.

But I want to get back together.

But I feel the same way about the JLDL.

I feel the same thing about the 911 Center.

You know, I mean there's just these things where it's like, why?

Why can't parks, you why can't we get together and and just date for a while and then you know go a little further?

Um and just a terrible analogy.

Just create an ongoing partnership.

So that we can save resources.

The people we we both are created to serve, um, and we're serving a majority of Tulsa County citizens.

So I think I mean we have to, right?

I think 85% of the county populations in the city of you are.

So I don't know where to go with this.

I heard Sarah, I know what the contracting authority is with the mayor.

My hope would be that we can move forward, stand up the very best, go talk to the county commissioners about this and other things that we need to talk to them about, um, and just ask the administration to be as nimble as possible so that if we had to make any changes that we could make those changes more easily, like if we did decide to get back together, how would we best accommodate that transition so that our people and our equipment that we're buying or hiring can be assimilated into a broader cooperative?

And I think we need to understand better what our ongoing obligations it's not just um a vehicle computers and personnel.

We have sirens now, like who's maintaining them?

I just don't understand fully.

We have some of that contracted.

I mean, I I know that the issue that we had when the nuclear warning went off was not related to us, right?

But that contracts with the city or with the uh as as I understand it contracts with the city, but I think the vendor maintains the sirens and all of that, test them test them, but also repairs or sometimes can test them internally and sometimes test them externally without knowing.

Got it.

But is that air cost with that?

I mean, my community borders Bixby and broken arrow, yeah.

Is it on the city of Tulsa side of siren that people hear?

Is it on the Bixby side?

I have no idea.

When it was under the county, it didn't probably matter materially as much.

So those are the questions I have.

The good thing is that I think the way that we react and act and trigger and all that other stuff stuff is prescribed.

It really doesn't matter if you're county or city.

It's this is the federal standard, you do this when this happens, and there's the tracking for federal reimbursement as well.

Right.

We just have to make sure that we have some people who are qualified doing those things.

They're thresholds you have to mandate.

There's also thresholds you have to meet in order to qualify for federal, and are we diminishing our ability eligibility by being on our own?

These are just I don't know enough about it to know, but I need people who do know about it to let us know.

Sounds like we have to stand up enough.

I think the unfortunate outcome of any of these separations is that we spend more money doing the same thing that we were doing.

Yep.

Both sides, both entities.

I mean, hopefully as well.

Yeah, but I liked your comment of in the meantime we continue having those discussions with the county to that we're I mean we can, but we ultimately to Sarah's point you don't have the authority to move forward.

Yeah, but so it'll be a budget increase next year, if I would like it will be a budget increase.

I can't imagine it won't be.

This isn't covering all the things.

That's right.

Just stand up in agency.

Well, yeah, can we maybe so that we can get I mean I know that we're doing the budget, I mean, we're voting this evening.

Um but can we um have can we put on an agenda as an agenda item to have uh Commissioner Roberts back at the table to answer these questions?

But I'm gonna pull like Councilor Henderson that if she is listening right now and if she wants to come down and give us that information right now, um that would be um that would be great.

I would be happy to relinquish my seat to her.

So um okay.

Are you done, Counselor Lincoln?

Yes, all right.

I have Councillor Archie Dutton and then Councillor Dallas.

Um so this is maybe me taking like three or four steps back and looking um a little bit more broadly.

I think a lot of the frustration that I'm hearing, maybe if I'm that I'm feeling in my own heart is one of disrespect.

Um is it the case that if there's a seismic change that needs to happen, uh, like are we gonna break apart that's uh you know the the management systems that will have a budgetary impact?

Does you know the mayor feel like before that decision is made, consultation or collaboration with the council should happen, or does our you know, does the obviously you know elections he was elected, there's a structure that we have, and he has the prerogative to or she has a prerogative to enter into those contracts, and they'll come along because you know they need to come along.

We'd be obviously provide you know safety for our our folks.

Um I think maybe I I would love to hear an assurance that moving forward, if there are things like this that they think that he believes in the administration believes would have these fiscal impacts, it maybe does you know it could be at the table or in private conversations or whatever, being looped in a little bit earlier to to receive that feedback or understand, um because I you know, looking, yeah, I think we're kind of over um we're back into a corner and I don't want residents to feel unsafe.

Obviously, we you know need um emergency management.

I just um I think maybe the concern that I've I've had like four calls, some from former folks at the county who live in my district were very angry about the decision, and I said, well, you know, um listening to both sides and trying to try to make sense of it and um I don't have you know, like counselor Bangle is saying I don't have all the answers as far as why it happened.

Boiling it all down, I think moving forward I'd love to be assured that the mayor will take the council into consideration with these sort of large decisions that have these implications, separate and apart from this particular instance.

You know, is this a is this a decision that sort of highlights a a pattern of how it's gonna kind of be for the next little while, or is this you can get what I'm saying?

So yes, I do, and not to be flippant, but I I can't address how the mayor's feeling that was kind of how you ask, and I think that's a good conversation to have.

I do think I mean me sitting in this chair right now, I'm here to be able to talk about the budget and how the impacts are and you've also addressed that.

Um what I would say is that uh as far as timeliness, I mean it was discussed publicly again eight, nine months ago, whatever it was.

Uh before uh well before the start of this this year, um it was submitted as part of the budget proposal um six, eight weeks ago, and so we've had time to have some of these discussions.

I mean it was presented with the budget as the whole budget is presented, and so it's a budget.

Yeah, it was as part of the budget, you know, when the the budget was developed and it was developed in a timely fashion to line up with the the fiscal year and it was presented to the council when we've had discussions with councilor Roberts at the table as part of this budget process.

And so I think um I think she'll be available to continue answering those specific questions.

I do feel like there has been timely presentation of this with the budget, and an opportunity for the discussion that we're having today and have had on previous council days.

Okay, I think I'm I'm good, I appreciate the answer.

Um, you know, in our next one-on-one, I'll talk with them about it.

Screw it.

Counselor Dutton and then Councillor Bells.

I just have a statement that uh tame on was also very important in our winter sheltering meetings for our sheltering community and making sure that we didn't have any deaths due to the elements in the winter time, right?

Providing equipment and uh whatnot for winter shelters, and I just want to say that this is also going to increase our budgetary needs going forward, and I think taxpayers are deserving of specific answers and transparency.

That's it, okay.

Counselor Bellis.

Yeah, I'll do one follow-up and then pitching an idea to my council colleagues.

I do want to voice like I definitely value, of course, that all of these budget protocols have been had, and that you know, we did have Commissioner Roberts spend time with us.

I just think what's challenging is, and I'm not faulting her for this, she has a lot under her umbrella, but it's really hard to hear such a big sis you know, systemic change that we're doing, which without having like literally tangible pieces of papers about like timeline process data.

It's just you know, it's just I think we've all asked a lot of questions, and we haven't really heard um full clear answers that where there's like hard numbers and data that go with that for decisions being made, or how again that like a change management process happened, which I'm sure there was on the back end.

Like I know we have really skilled city employees, we just haven't learned that.

So I know it makes it hard for us to then make budget allocation decisions.

Um, I understand that you know this is absolutely a non negotiable service.

Um, I don't know if there's something we could look at doing over, you know, the next year just to kind of understand and, you know, that county partnership.

One of the things I was gonna see if my colleagues may be interested in, and in advance council staffs could be like, oh, that's a pain, but I'm almost wondering.

I think Councillor Lakin um had mentioned all these different ways that we partner with the county, um, and it sounds like there's just a need for a broader conversation.

I'm wondering if maybe you know, we do those legislative forums where we do a publicly posted meeting with legislative partners, we've had county folks at the table before.

I wonder if there's a specific, like I know it's hard with the county where three of them is a quorum, so I'm wondering if we need to do maybe a shared publicly posted meeting.

I think two.

Oh, two, that's what I meant.

Sorry, yes.

Two is a quorum, so you can't get them in a group.

So I I will voice that I think one of the only ways for us to sort through and just have a cohesive shared collaborative discussion across an array of, I know we've talked about animal welfare collaboration before, we've talked about, you know, I know on the public record, we can only get so much into certainty gritty about if there's just negotiations or this or that.

I know there's contract stuff separately, but knowing all the different ways that there's partnership across public safety and so much else with the county, I do think that maybe doing like a shared publicly posted meeting to get to at least talk through what existing partnerships look like and what could be kind of just you know available in the future where there's opportunities could be really powerful if we're just kind of forward looking with that, so that way we can think about how we can really best coordinate aligned dollars and so much else.

So if I'm just proposing it to my council colleagues, we we tried doing that um a sex cycle months ago, but scheduling just didn't know as hard to work out.

It was a challenge.

We it was a channel.

We continue to attempt schedule.

Okay, I do.

I think that just the timeline of maybe all this.

I I think there are conversations about about working with county.

Yeah, and so just the time of of this decision that was this was made back in I think September, I mean it's it was several several months ago when when all this started.

Um versus you know, just being in conversations yesterday about about work we can collaborate with on the county.

I think I think we're in a there's time has passed, and I think doors are open for communication.

So very well said, thank you, sir.

All right.

Any other questions, concerns on this amended budget?

Not a question, just a comment.

So this is item 7A.

Are we planning to take it in order today, or will we bring it to the top of the agenda?

Um I think we just keep it as as is.

Okay, and so the public, if they do want to comment, we did have public hearings, but this will be the final opportunity for anyone who wants to come and speak to sign up on item 7a or any of the other items to be heard because I think as we have had these conversations and taken to our own platforms to amplify concerns, more people are aware.

I see media in the room for the first time that has not necessarily been here paying attention to the nitty-gritty in ways.

So I imagine more people may want to come on down.

So just wanted to make sure that we're not gonna move it up higher in the agenda, which sometimes we do on bigger votes, right?

Okay, we'll keep it as is as is 7A.

Yep.

Thank you.

All right, then we will move on to item number five ordinance authorizing the mayor to transfer any unexpended and unencumbered appropriations of one uh one hundred thousand dollars or less from one account to another within the same department of the city with certain expectations this um expires July 31st.

Just a procedural on on this agenda.

Um we have already talked about the remaining of these items, but because we just pushed the the budget vote back, these items came with it.

So unless there's any specific questions on on the remainder of the agenda, um do you want me to read six real quick?

Well, I don't think you even legally have to unless there's questions.

So, okay.

Just again, um last week we asked if we could put some reporting specifics in.

So I hope you saw in the backup that it that is codified in there in the in the updated ordinance.

So thanks to Jack and Sarah for making that happen.

Yeah, thank you.

All right.

Anybody else have any questions, concerns?

No.

I did I did want to say something.

Counselor Dictor, right?

Thank you.

We have collectively at this table, more than I think 30 years experience in budgeting for the city, if not 40, with the outsized influence of one historic counselor in service.

Um, she called you three histories.

No, we've probably to believe we've had people allowed we've had people leave and come back.

So there's 10 years here, there's 10 years here, there's eight years here, is it 12 or something, and then of course our staff more than that, and for the last two budgets, it's been historic over a billion dollar budgets.

When I first came as a new counselor with then Chair Lakin, we were making cuts to a budget.

We were making furloughs during the pandemic, and so as we move forward and get this passed and start you know getting ready for our next budget retreat, whoever's coming back in December.

I think it's really important how we talk about it with the public, you know, the auditors sharing um feedback with each of us about community.

My community specifically said they don't feel well informed on the budget.

So I'm making a commitment to try to do more, and I hope everyone will too.

And I know that they're trying to do a public data dashboard now that I think will help.

I think us on Tulsa Council.org/slash budget have been doing more.

Um, but it's very difficult, even for those of us who are have been doing it a long time, and for those of you who are maybe on your second or first time doing it, um, so I think it's really important that even though a budget retreat may happen after the new year, that we stay in dialogue around these things, um, and amplify processes because I think there are some expectations from public that we would have say over tracting, let's say, um, or that we could hold dollars back and make a thing happen.

So I just wanted to thank the leadership of our chairwoman and our vice chair, who I know you guys have regular meetings, separately from us on our behalf on policy and everything else, and then the added time that you put in on the small budget with counselor Lakin and myself.

Um for the rest of you, I know it's frustrating because I've been on the side that you have where you're not in those small budget meetings, and it's hard to just get snatches of information.

So I just hope collectively we can refine the process.

I know um counselor Bush has managed much more public funding in a different elected role, and I know it's been frustrating for you.

It's been I'll be honest, yeah, it's a terrible process.

I know, and I don't know how I I'm just saying I we know that we can commit to doing it better, just being honest, how you're all about not doing it again.

But I just want to say I appreciate within the framework that we have, the amount of time that our chairwoman and our vice chair have put in our staff.

Um, you know, a huge amount of time.

I don't think people outside always know how much our staff is doing to just get us the information we need so that we make the most informed decision with the best information at the time.

When we get new information, sometimes we make a different decision, and we're doing the best we can, but I do hope the public stays engaged.

I hope next year when we have public hearings, people come and speak to these things because we've done a better job outlining the process for them.

So I just wanted to say that because I know we're all gonna be like the budget's done on to the next, and we'll be thinking it about it in January.

So it's a big budget, it's historic, and I think we've got a lot of good baked in here, and there's a lot more work that we do need to do, and the economy is the economy, so next year it might not be another historic budget.

Yeah, councillor Bangle.

And obviously, during our mail council retreat, we made that commitment to kind of scrutinize this budget.

We have to.

I think we've done a good job this year.

Yeah, I can I agree follow up a little bit.

Yeah, sure.

I wasn't trying to call you out.

No, I mean, there we just talked about it.

With the um homeless budget or the safe move or whatever it is, with the quarterly reports and the return on the investments.

We can be better stewards in this current system, besides these PowerPoint presentations.

I mean, that's we need to have these budget conversations going ongoing and fiscal hacks and fiscal.

And okay, PowerPoints are all nice and lovely, but we need more, yeah, just to Apple's numbers, going forward, and that starts July 1.

Just because we're going to approve a budget tonight, I think we need to go in and put those processes in place.

And it's not a criticism of staff at all, it's the process that is just functional.

Yes.

So it's not work.

Yeah.

Um I'm confident that we're on the right path to start that process.

So even in the little 10-minute break, we worked on that process between this morning meeting and this one.

So I think the expectations are quite clear, and we're gonna hold ourselves to that as well.

So this isn't the last one o'clock meeting that we're gonna have until the next budget proposal.

Um, it will be an ongoing just quarter quarterly or however we schedule it just to so that all of us and the viewers at home or at work wherever can follow along with the um those reports.

So thank you.

Yeah, I think constituents will appreciate um our involvement and be able to feel confident, it's our responsibility.

Right.

Yeah, we're not that easy.

We're not full-time, so right.

Yeah, yeah, we do rely heavily on red crowns to point us in the right direction.

Yeah, we all have other amount of full-time stuff to do.

Yeah, we could be more engaged if we were here.

Yeah.

Alright, any other concerns?

No, all right.

Item number seven, we are adjourned.