Yep.

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the regularly scheduled plan commission meeting for July 22nd.

My name is Joan Frank Hoore.

I'm a member of the Commission.

The mayor, who is the chair of the commission, is not able to be with us tonight.

She's representing the city in Madison at a meeting.

And so she's asked me to chair, and that's what I'm doing.

So the first thing we'd like you to do is to join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you.

And we'll have roll call.

And Heather, would you start?

Heather Granger.

Here.

Jack Wells here.

Joan Frank Hoor here.

Beth Moulton.

Thank you.

We have a quorum and can proceed with business tonight.

The first thing on our agenda is public comment.

And I would just let you know that this is on the agenda in case someone can't stay for the meeting and wanted to address an item, or that you have something you wanted to speak to the plan commission about, which is not listed on our agenda tonight.

So I will pause and see if there are members of the audience who would like to speak with us.

I would also remind you that as we go through the specific items, there is an opportunity at each of them for you to speak if you have information or we want to make a comment to the plan commission.

So let me pause now and see if there's anyone who's in the audience that would like to address our commission tonight.

Not seeing a large group running up to the microphone.

I guess I would ask Doug, are there any comments of public comments that came into the commission?

Um we did receive a couple comments from one of the aldermen, and they will be presented during the presentation of those items.

Okay, very good.

Then the next thing on our agenda is the approval of minutes, and these minutes were from June 22nd.

Thank you, Commissioner Wells moves.

Commissioner Keller seconds.

Uh are there any additions, deletions for the minutes or any comments.

Seeing none, I believe we're ready to vote.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Those passed unanimously.

And thank you for that vote.

Excuse me.

Before we get too far, I would like to introduce the new staff members.

If you don't mind.

So on my left is our new associate planner, Megan Steiner Puttier.

Close.

She joined us the a couple weeks ago now.

Um this will be your first meeting, obviously, before you.

Um we're very excited to have her on board.

And then I know I think Alderman Wells was not at our last meeting.

And uh on Charlie's left is Thane Bremer, and he's our intern.

Um he's a currently grad student at UW Milwaukee.

And uh we're happy to have him on board.

He's been helping us out a lot this summer, and uh maybe staying around this fall as well.

So you'll be seeing both of their faces uh quite often now moving forward, hopefully.

Well, it's a pleasure and re welcome you, Thane, and welcome you, Megan.

Um, I think it's exciting to see both of you not only present, but you're on the agenda tonight.

So uh we look forward to your comments and presentation.

Uh the first the next thing on our agenda is the consent agenda, and what that really means is that the staff has gone through some of the applications and found that there are compliance with our code and with we what we usually look at, and so therefore they brought us to us at the plan commission for consent to be approved.

So I'm just gonna pause for a second and ask if any of the commissioners would like any of these items removed from consent.

Seeing none, what that means is that the staff recommendation has been approved by the commission, and these items are considered approved.

The next part of our agenda then is our business items, and the first one is a final site plan and architectural review for the property at 222 West St.

Paul Avenue, St.

Paul Place.

And it's a request to approve plans for exterior building and site improvements, including new siding, windows, and doors, along with the new pavement and landscaping improvements to the site located in a B3 general business district.

And Charlie, I believe that this is your item.

Yep.

Thank you.

All right.

So this is 222 West St.

Paul Avenue.

It's located near the uh near St.

Paul Avenue's intersection with North Street and Wisconsin Avenue.

And it's a property that extends uh all the way between the two uh the two streets between St.

Paul and North.

Um as you can see, uh there is an existing uh office office space uh which faces towards North Street, uh which is occupied by Hannah Home Healthcare.

Uh and that uh that takes up basically the entire space with the the black roof uh and this overhead here, um, and then it also has an associated parking lot.

And then the rest of the building uh facing towards St.

Paul Avenue uh has been vacant for a very long time and is uh is blighted and kind of deteriorated.

And the applicants would like to uh refurbish the building and uh lease it out to several commercial tenants.

Um the interior they uh are moving uh removing several walls and and adding some other ones uh to create uh four new commercial spaces.

Uh the red in the uh in this is the uh is a storage space that's used by the by Hannah Home Healthcare.

Um the yellow will be a uh most likely a uh an auto detailing business, which was had a conditional use permit approval by the plan commission earlier this year.

Uh the larger green space was originally uh intended as a storage or uh uh construction business uh occupant, but uh the applicants believe now uh it will most likely be uh occupied by a gym, and then the uh purple and the the blue spaces will be office and and uh uh retail facing out towards St.

Paul Avenue.

So St.

Paul Avenue is on the on the right here on this uh overhead.

And then on the second floor, there is a smaller office space uh above the the one on the first floor that looks like it could be either combined with that uh first floor office or uh a separate tenant, and then the green space uh appears to be uh connected to the gym space.

Um so again, here's the uh the building as it appears right now.

Uh the windows on the front are are all uh have all been removed, and there's a a brick siding and uh sort of a uh tan colored metal siding above.

Uh so the applicants would like to add Nietzsche panels to uh cover the brick area as well as new windows, which will match the style of those panels, uh, and then a new um a new uh ramp into the into the commercial space with uh railing.

And they will also repaint and refurbish the uh the metal panels on the second level uh to improve their appearance as well.

So this is the rendering that they've provided for the front of the space.

Um as you can see, there will also be some new land uh foundation landscaping uh both around the base of the uh of the uh the walkway and also uh at the top of it.

Uh the currently the uh there's a shared driveway into the the strip mall uh retail area uh on the adjacent property as well as this this property uh which has a sort of a concrete uh curb that uh blocks uh prevents traffic from from driving directly into this parking area and uh the the parking area on this property uh was paved at some point in the past but has deteriorated into gravel.

Um the applicants do plan to repave that and remove the curb so that there will be access into this uh parking area, and they also plan to uh refurbish uh refurbish the siding of this section of the building as well.

Uh so you can see there'll be uh new overhead door uh into the auto detailing space as well as two smaller doors uh into the gym space, uh which will be uh replaced.

Uh the doors themselves will be replaced with new uh glass uh glass doors.

Um so this is actually the rendering that was uh attached to your agenda uh just in the past couple days.

The appliance have provided uh a uh new uh version of that uh rendering.

Uh so they had shown four uh garage doors into the gym area, but they don't feel that that's necessary.

Um so they they'll just be adding the two uh two doors into the gym and then removing the other overhead door, uh, and then they'll be adding uh the metal siding uh with uh two different colors, uh darker brown and a lighter tan siding there, as well as three windows where they had been showing two existing windows before, and those will be new windows in those spaces, and then they've indicated there'll be a new full light door at the uh the entrance on the far side.

Um the north side of the building, it's currently a concrete siding, which is uh somewhat deteriorated.

So they plan to uh repair that wall and uh repaint it and then also refurbish some of the the metal siding uh further into the property, but most of this is not visible from the street.

Uh it's it's right up against the adjacent building.

Uh so the repairs there will be fairly minimal.

Um the red line on the on the screen here is the property boundary.

Uh so as you can see that runs right through the uh the what will be the new parking area.

Uh so the applicants will need to provide evidence of a uh a cross access easement uh with the adjacent property uh recorded with the county register of deeds uh just to ensure that they do have access there to both of the uh the parking areas since they are planning to use uh use that portion for uh for a driveway when they are showing seven parking spaces adjacent to the new tenants.

Um the plan shows uh wheel stops in front of the parking spaces, including the spaces in front of the uh uh the two overhead doors.

Uh this had initially looked like something that would be not a good idea when it was believed that that was going to be a construction space, but uh since they plan to have a gym occupying that space, they don't anticipate needing uh to have uh cars coming in and out, so they'll just be using those uh overhead doors sort of as ventilation as and as windows for the for the gym.

So the the concrete wheel stops are are uh are a reasonable uh to have in that space.

Uh the dashed line here is a fence, which was added in the last couple of years without any kind of plan commission approval, um, and it blocks access between the larger parking area uh adjacent to North Street and then the smaller uh one closer to St.

Paul Avenue.

Uh the applicants have stated that that was added to prevent uh cars from driving through the parking lot, cutting through when uh North Street or St.

Paul Avenue get backed up, uh cutting through to the other street to get around, uh, and then also to prevent uh pedestrians from cutting through there as well.

Um and they would like to actually keep the uh uh keep this fence in place going forward.

They do plan to remove the the concrete barriers, but they plan to keep the fence.

Um as you can see, it does extend from the one building to the other.

Uh, and it has a little cutout to uh provide access to the door here, uh, but it does not uh provide pedestrian or vehicular access between the two uh parking areas.

Um this is the the existing office space uh for Hannah Home Healthcare on the other side of the building.

That will be unchanged, and the applicants have stated that they uh they do use most of these spots during the day for their employees, um, and they would like to keep it that way.

Uh there should they do have 32 existing parking spaces on that side, and then seven spaces on the other side.

Um 30 the total uh 39 spaces uh would be adequate based on the new code uh for the proposed uses in in all of those uh in all those spaces.

They would still need an exception from the plan commission under the existing code, um, but seven spaces is not adequate for for the four new tenant tenants uh under any uh you know parking requirement that the city has, and uh staff would not recommend approving an exception for that.

Uh we don't feel that seven spaces is gonna be enough.

The applicants have noted that uh there is some existing street parking.

There are four or five spaces uh right in front of the building and up and down St.

Paul Avenue now.

And uh they've uh stated that they would like to uh have the tenants use spaces in uh municipal lots in the area.

Closest municipal lot uh is 900 feet away as the crow flies, so that would be quite a long walk.

Um so staff is recommending that if the fence is going to stay in place, it should be moved uh at least up to the corner of the of the building uh adjacent to North Street, uh which would allow four or five additional spaces uh on that on the St.

Paul side of the building, um, as well as some shared parking uh throughout the lot, and then uh that there should be some uh allowance for pedestrian access uh through the through the fence as well as a gate uh to open it potentially if uh if cars do need to get through.

Um so here's uh just a another uh couple photos of that portion of the lot uh so you can see where uh where we'd like the fence to go at the corner there.

Uh we do feel that the existing fence is a good design that that would be appropriate uh for this kind of a business.

Uh so staff recommends approval of uh final site plan and architectural review for 222 West St.

Paul Avenue with the conditions that the applicant must provide evidence of the cross access easement with the adjacent property to allow for shared use of the parking area, and if applicable to allow the fence to cross the property boundaries, and that should be uh that evidence uh should be provided prior to issuance of building permits.

Um the fence must be removed or relocated prior to issuance of building permits, and if it is to be re relocated rather than removed, the design and location must be approved by staff, so we would like it to be in that corner, and it must include an opening uh for pedestrian access and a gate for vehicular access, and then uh all applicable permits must be approved for work on the building and property.

Uh double fees may be charged for work which has already been completed, including roof repair, and any work which has been done in a manner which is not building code compliant uh may need to be removed and redone at the property owner's expense.

Uh that's just noted uh because uh it does appear that the applicants have been doing some work that the building was in uh a pretty rough shape, so we understand that some work may have needed to be done uh right away, but there will be uh double fees for that, and and the building permit building department will need to uh will need to be able to review it properly.

So and engineering department and fire department comments also to be addressed.

Uh thank you, Charlie.

Before we come to the commission for any questions, could you put the exhibit up again, which sho is shut this one?

Um are you able to draw a line to show where you would suggest the fence be moved to?

Um it would be from this corner here, basically straight across to uh where the retaining wall is here.

And therefore those parking spaces against the building itself as we're looking at it to the left?

Uh those, yeah, those would be it would be another, I think, five spaces that would be uh that could be primarily for use of the tenants, and and we feel that they probably will need to have some shared parking with the uh with the tenants as in the other lot as well.

Okay, thank you.

What questions do we have for Charlie?

Commissioner Melson.

Um where you just drew that line.

Does the home health business have a uh ADA access to their building in a different place if you if you put the fence where you just said, you know, you can see that the end of the sidewalk is the ramp, and that's where the handicap parking is?

Yeah, they would need to uh probably relocate that handicap space and probably uh they might need to restripe the parking in that area a little as well.

Okay.

Thank you.

Are there questions?

Seeing none, I would then go out to the audience.

Is there anyone here that wants to address this item?

Seeing none, I'll come back to the commission.

Yeah.

Commissioner Melson.

I I see what you're talking about.

Moving the fence we gain a couple of parking spots, but it you know, seven or twelve slots parking spots doesn't seem like anywhere near enough for four businesses in a gym.

Right.

Yeah, I guess that's that's uh sort of the best uh solution that we could come up with without uh which would still provide some uh ability to block people from cutting through, but would allow some shared shared parking.

Okay.

Um and I do I mean it's it's exciting to find a new use for an old building like this and refurbish it, and that that part's exciting.

You know, so I'm happy I'm happy with that.

I I'm just unclear about how that how that would work with I mean I would think that a gym would have people coming to work out, right?

Right.

Yeah, we we feel that uh if they did allow some shared parking uh for you know if they allowed uh them to use some of the spaces in the the larger lot, um that the hours that a gym would be busy would be probably before and after regular office hours, so there might be uh there might be some allowance for shared parking there, and that would meet the at least the new code what what the uh requirements are.

Okay, if they got permission from the the neighbor, you know across the property line there, is there enough room to put parking on, you know, like mirror this parking on the other side?

No, there wouldn't be enough to to allow um parking spaces and driveway access, not uh not right up against the building.

There are some parking spaces in that lot, but uh we haven't had any discussion about uh shared parking with the neighboring property, but I wouldn't think they would be interested in that.

So is there with the new code that had requires fewer parking spots?

Does the strip mall next door have access space or um they might have access space uh you know from what the code requires, but uh I guess is they would not want to have you know shared parking with the uh adjacent property.

That's something the applicants could could explore, certainly.

Um if they had an agreement with a neighboring property owner for some shared parking, that would be uh that would be another solution that they could is the property owner here to address what their thoughts are about parking?

Um we'll give them a chance.

Okay, if there are other questions from any of the other commissioners, Commissioner Granger.

How many people are employed by the home health care that are normally parked in that lot?

Um they didn't give us a uh number of employees.

I guess if they are here, they could probably answer that.

They said that they wanted to use all those spaces.

Um when I was out there during a regular weekday, it looked like the majority of spaces were used, but uh it was not there were spaces that were open.

So Commissioner Wills.

I'm comfortable with the 39 parking spaces for the businesses at this property if there is shared access between those, so we would have to have that pedestrian access between the two parking lots.

Um I don't think seven is enough for a gym plus businesses that would later move into space.

Um but I think 39 is is appropriate.

But again, there has to be pedestrian access between those two parking lots.

Could there potentially be a break in the fence, not necessarily a gate, but a break that could allow people to go through, but not a vehicle, because I feel like if there's a gate that's always closed, people coming to these tenant spaces won't realize they can park on the other side because it may be hard to see that there's a gate that can open and close.

But if there was a break in the fence, like a define defined pedestrian walkway between the two.

Commissioner Keller, do you have any comment?

Well, you could create uh four or five more parallel stalls on the south side of that parking lot.

Uh it's not on the proposed property, it's off property, and I think there's a dumpster corral there, if I'm not mistaken.

But um, it would allow additional parking.

Um if necessary.

You'd have to get an agreement with the adjacent landowner.

Uh Charlie, uh if I understood it, the if they move the gate, I mean if they move the fence to where the staff is proposing, and they have a part of it that is uh a pedestrian gate, if you will, and marked appropriately.

Was there also an intent that the gate would have some kind of mechanism that when and if it was ever needed to have car access, that that would also open?

That yeah, that was the staff's intention.

I think if as long as there's ability to, you know, that it wouldn't be the end of the world to have just a fence there if that's what the plan commission uh is comfortable with.

There is access from both streets, so it wouldn't be like a safety concern, but um, but our intention, our recommendation was that there should be um that there should be access to both parking areas.

Or access that the gate should allow both pedestrian and vehicular access.

Both pedestrian and vehicle.

Yeah.

So theoretically, if you were drawing a picture, you'd have this fence and it would have the ability to open the two middle sections, and you would have an access for pedestrian like it shows on the left.

Yeah, that would be that's the staff's recommendation.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um I'm interested to hear from the applicant.

Um I did go again to this property and I accessed it from north.

And my observation was that there was a healthy use of parking spaces for Hannah home services, but it wasn't uh every space was not taken.

And the area that we're looking at here where the large boulders are and the cars are parked, there was nobody there that allowed me to park there.

And my observation was that um the moving the fence would be a positive attribute for the improvement of the building that we're discussing tonight, and that I'll be interested to hear what the plan commissioners have to say about that.

But I'll at this time I would invite the applicant to come to address the commission.

You've heard our discussion, and perhaps you could give us some answers and your view.

Charlie is the applicant here.

Um Charlie, I couldn't hear.

Uh she's this is uh the architect for the applicant.

Okay, would you please come forward and give your name and address uh my name's Ashley Pollocks, I'm with Thrive Architects, 259 South Street Walkershaw.

Welcome, Ashley.

Thank you.

Um the owner was not feeling well today, so he messaged me um about 15 minutes before the meeting that he could not make it tonight.

Um we did talk about this fence, and I think their plan was rather than relocating it and all the expense that comes with an automatic gate and everything, that they would be more inclined to just remove it altogether and just not have a fence there at all.

So well, Ashley, um you're not speaking totally for the owner, but perhaps you could give us some insight.

One of the objectives was to not encourage or maybe a stronger word would be not permit people to make a decision that instead of going all the way down North Street and then making some turns later, or not having to travel on uh main street that they would turn around and go cut through.

They'd come to north and cut through so that they didn't have to um deal with the traffic lights and the gapping and all of that sort of thing.

So if they remove this the fence, that would defeat uh that intent.

That's correct.

I mean that is why they put the fence in initially.

Um but if our options are either to remove the fence back and add these gates and everything, or um, you know, not get an approval at all.

I I think I think they'd be more inclined to just remove the fence um rather than yeah, going through all the trouble of adding these gates and um relocating that ADA stall and everything else.

Are there any questions for Ashley?

Commissioner Ashley, um a suggestion for you.

Consider taking the parking on the south side of the building and making it angular parking, 45 degrees, something like that.

You'll then be able to park on both sides of the proposed uh space, which will pick up you'll net additional parking stalls, and it probably won't adversely affect uh the parking on the tenant on the west side.

And it's just it's paint.

Um so yeah, you'll still have to deal with the handicap so forth, but I think if the end goal is to net additional parking stalls for the development, that's the way to do it if you're gonna take the fence down.

Um if you're worried about speed, you know, people have invented speed bumps that do a great job slowing traffic, so it might be an easier scenario than a fence in this situation.

Sure.

Yeah, I think that would be a good option.

Um I know we had we had tried laying out um the parking lot using angled stalls.

Um that was before we had a survey, so we could certainly revisit that.

Are there other questions or comments?

Commissioner Wells.

I'm less concerned with moving vehicles between two lots than just pedestrians.

So I'd be comfortable leaving the fence where it is at if you were to remove the small L near the building to allow someone to walk between the two lots.

My feeling is that people can move between the two lots if they need to park the south side to get to the north side or the north side to get to the south side.

If you're looking for a parking spot, I don't think it's a terrible thing to have to go around to find a different spot if you can see it.

So my feeling is just as long as we have pedestrian access between the two.

Um I'm comfortable with leaving the fence where it's at.

So that's that's my feeling.

Um I think there's sufficient parking in the area, especially if you're a gym user.

It shouldn't be crazy that you're parking a little bit further and walking a bit to go work out.

Um that's that's my feeling of the rest of the commission.

If they if they can work out, they can walk.

Is that what you're saying?

That's my thought.

Okay.

I do agree with that idea.

I think the big concern is that people are able to get to the new building space.

So if part of that was removed to let people go through, and as I said earlier, if there's a physical gate they have to open, they're less likely to want to walk through.

But if there is just a break that allows pedestrians through, I think that would be good.

Okay.

And I'd be okay with leaving it in the current location as well if pedestrians can get through.

Any other questions or comments?

I can make a motion.

I was just gonna say if Jack could make a motion to that.

So I will make a motion to approve with staff comments allowing for the fence to remain in the present location, provided there is a pedestrian opening to allow pedestrians to move between the two between the north and south lot.

Did you make any comment about parking?

With regard to what Commissioner Keller suggested.

No, I won't make that a condition.

If the applicant is able to work out a different parking arrangement, then that's more spots.

Um I believe they should be able to work that through a staff.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Commissioner Wilson.

Second.

Are there further comments or discussion on this item?

If not, then all of all of us who are in favor of the motion as stated, say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

So I keller.

Nay.

So the vote is five is four to one.

Thank you.

And so that means that it is approved, but you heard the discussion in terms of the parking, especially, and also about the access for the pedestrian through the fence.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Ashley.

And just to reflect that I clicked too quickly.

Um, so we will correct that vote cast after the meeting for the minutes.

Maria, you're just saying what showed on the display.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, thank you for that.

The next item on our agenda is the final site plan and architectural review for a Dolphin Drive, Coral Drive.

Store it right.

A request to approve final plans for a new 64,000 square foot self-storage facility consisting of two buildings on 4.2712 acres of land at the northeast corner of Coral Drive and Dolphin Drive, located in the M1 light manufacturing district.

And Megan, welcome.

Thank you very much.

Um, I'll be presenting the next two agenda items within this presentation, both the final site plan and architecture review as well as the certified survey map.

Okay, this site is located in the northeast corner of the city, just off the intersection of East Main Street and Les Paul Parkway in what is existing business park area.

Um the certified survey map would combine the two parcels highlighted in red, um, a combined approximately 4.2 acres.

Um, there's some notable topography on the site with the protected wetlands that is outlined in green on the southern end of the site, as well as a protected outland or a protected wetland on the adjacent parcel to the east.

Yeah, the applicant proposes two narrow self-storage buildings with northern building one almost 36,000 square feet, and southern building two, smaller at just over 28,000 square feet.

There would be a one-way drive aisle between the two buildings with an entrance on Dolphin and exit on coral drives.

Parking stalls would be located just west of building one, adjacent to the main office space.

The applicant is requested relief from the minimum parking requirements.

Their proposed operation would require 28 stalls in the current code, 14 in the new code.

They're requesting five parking stalls.

The applicant stated that most of their customers would drive right through the fenced gate and park directly in front of their unit or near an access door.

So the parking outside of that fenced area would only be for their one employee and any customers who were starting or ending their rental.

They also stated that this limited parking has worked well at their other locations in Okanamawalk in Heartland.

The applicant is requesting relief as well from the driveway with an apron geometry standards on Dolphin Drive.

Staff recommends the city standard flare rather than the radius that's shown along Dolphin Drive, but would work with the applicant to potentially increase the driveway width.

That concern came from concerns that customers who have limited experience driving large vehicles would have a challenge pulling onto the property.

This is the interior of the northern building one.

You can see storage units of a variety of sizes, including many that are accessed from the drive aisle.

And they're also the main office is depicted on the southern or on the bottom picture at the far west end.

Southern Building Two, very similar layout.

Notably, this building also has drive at drive aisle accessed units on the east end as well.

This is the rendering of the approach on dolphin.

They would have a 16-foot iron decorative fence across the drive aisle with vehicular access.

The exterior cladding would be insulated horizontal and vertical metal panels with some color variation as you can see in the rendering.

You can see some of the color variation along the southern facade of building two, as well as the fencing that would close off the coral drive exit and secure that area.

Here you can see their landscape plan.

They would leave the wetlands area on the southern portion of the site largely intact and add a stormwater detention pond on the west end of the site.

They would include a variety of trees and shrubbery around the site with a particular concentration along the south side facade of building two facing coral drive.

Currently, the curb extends approximately two-thirds of the frontage and tapers into a deteriorated gravel shoulder.

The applicant would like to pave the gravel shoulder without adding curb and gutter.

Public works strongly recommends the full coral frontage meet the city standard with curb and gutter because it is a public right-of-way road.

The applicant conveyed concerns about stormwater drainage if curb and gutter is installed.

The engineering division believes this can be remedied remedied through adding storm structure to discharge or allowing the curbed flow line to discharge along the east of coral terminus, which would connect directly back into the identified wetland.

The applicant is also requesting relief from the requirement to add curb and gutter to the east end of their site, the terminus of their drive aisle as it turns on to coral.

That's marked with the yellow dashed line.

Staff is comfortable with this omission because the applicant has acknowledged staff's concern of erosion and plans to manage it accordingly.

Here are two pictures of the extent of the coral frontage that does not have curb and gutter.

You can see the pavement is quite deteriorated into gravel and also tapers slightly as you get further east.

This image shows the 2023 sidewalk plan designations for each segment in this area.

The blue lines are installed sidewalk, the orange is medium priority uninstalled sidewalk, and the yellow is low priority uninstalled sidewalk.

You'll see the dolphin drive frontage is medium priority, and the coral drive is low priority.

According to the sidewalk plan for medium priority segments, city staff should advocate for sidewalks.

Plan commission approval should be to be installed as part of the development.

Low priority, city staff would not recommend that sidewalks be installed for plan and commission approval.

Staff consistent with the sidewalk plan.

Staff continues to recommend sidewalk along Dolphin, but would not recommend sidewalk along coral at this time.

Here you can see two pictures, um, views of the Dolphin Drive frontage on the left, that is facing north towards the raised grain brewery, and the right is facing south.

Um here is their grading plan submitted by the applicant.

The green is lower elevation and blue is higher elevation.

And then the applicant also provided some photos of their Oconomo walk location.

They plan to use very similar materials to give the commission a sense of what this would look like.

And before I lay out the final approval, we received comments from the alderman of the district, Mike Christian, who was unable to attend this meeting, but would like his comments right into the record.

So I'll read them verbatim now.

Um he says, I met with one of the owners at the Economwalk location, which has their phase one site open for about a year.

The phase two stage has the construction of a tall, large section underway.

I found it to be a great business model and very clean and well lit.

Questions I had were answered without hesitation, and I had a great tour.

All common areas, offices, storage unit rental areas are climate controlled year-round.

They have policies and procedures in place to prevent commercial auto body, auto repair, manufacturing, and people living in the units.

They monitor and regulate trash around the property daily, and they have many cameras.

I asked about sprinklers and was told that if Walkershaw requires them, they will put them in.

Since all space is climate control year-round, I asked where the HVAC mechanicals are located.

I was told all mechanicals were located inside.

When I was leaving, I noticed that the front of the building has at least two AC condensing units mounted on plastic pads on the ground.

Traffic concerns for the Waukeshaw location are that I frequently drive semi-trucks eastbound on Coral Drive and then attempt to turn left on Dolphin to go north.

It is a very tight turn and is made dangerous if raised grain is busy as cars will be parked all the way down to Coral Drive.

My concern is large moving trucks and recreational vehicles, navigation through the intersection or into Stewart Wright lot before the gate is opened.

Summarize, staff recommends approval of the final site plan and architectural review for the proposed self-storage facility at Dolphin Drive and Coral Drive with the following conditions.

Sidewalk be installed along the frontage of Dolphin Drive per the 2023 City of Waukeshaw Sidewalk Plan, which identified this segment as medium priority, engineering department, fire department, and water utility comments and concerns will be addressed.

Thank you, Megan.

What questions do we have?

Do we have questions?

Seeing no questions right at this moment, I'd like to uh go out to the audience.

Is there anyone that wants to address the commission?

And is the applicant here?

And would you like to address the commission?

If you would give your name and your address, please.

Yes, uh, thank you.

Chris Swite with R.A.

Smith 16745 West Blue Mount Road.

Um I'm the civil engineer on the project.

We also have Ashley, she's two for one today as the architect, and then Joe's here with his wife as the developer.

Um, so yeah, as kind of mentioned, and I think you guys might have received a cover letter from me.

Um there are as she mentioned, there's a couple of requests from us.

Um I think she did a good job of kind of outlining um our points.

Um I think sidewalk and coral drive since they're no longer recommending it.

Um, we can kind of move on from that point.

Um, sidewalk on Dolphin.

Um again adding in sidewalk where we have our steep driveway, we'll only make the driveway steeper.

Um we're a lot of people are gonna be accessing this place with U-Hauls who aren't used to driving U-Halls, and so um keeping that driveway as flat as possible on this challenging site is important.

Um keep in mind too, we've already pushed the boundaries.

I think on the grading plan with this.

Uh storage facilities are unique in that they don't have to have flat floors.

Um, the buildings are actually pitched already at 1% to deal with the grading challenges on the site.

Um, and so lowering the buildings to fix the driveway is just not possible.

Um, I think her points about the zoning code are great, and yeah, and most of the customers don't stop at the office, they go straight to their unit.

Um I think we uh I I talked to engineering this morning about the the driveway shapes and radiuses.

Um, I think we're totally fine with switching to a flared driveway if we can just get a little relief on the width, and we'll work with staff on um on figuring out that exact width when we get to that point.

So driveway or curb and gutter along coral.

Um, so yes, like we like she said, um right now the the pavements just deteriorated away, there's not much left of it.

So we will go in and and repave what was there where the the vehicles will drive over.

Um adding curb and gutter will only complicate our uh our drainage towards the wetlands.

Um adding in storm sewer isn't an easy fix.

Um we actually already got uh uh non-favorable news from the DNR about these wetlands.

There, they the DNR believes they're not artificial.

Um I disagree, but we have to play by their rules, and so we have a lot of permitting ahead of us to actually do this project and fill the wetlands that are needed to get across this.

So adding in storm sewer and more discharges to the wetlands is is gonna uh slow down this project and impede it.

So um I think those were all the main points.

Okay, uh, Chris, just to summarize, um you're asking for relief from curb and gutter on Dolphin.

On coral, the east-west road, sorry.

I believe that that has already been discussed and was not being required.

Um that was being recommended by staff.

Yeah.

So I think I think it's no sidewalk and coral.

We've agreed on that, but they did request curbing daughter on coral coral.

Yes.

Okay.

We need to have kind of an explicit list of what are the what are the questions that need some feedback from the plan commission.

And so you have also expressed what the owner is asking to say these were the these were the staff recommendations, and these are the ones we would like to have the plan commission relieve us of.

Yeah, so I guess maybe going one at a time with if that would help.

Um, so sidewalk along Dolphin would be the first request would be to not install that.

And so that would be the shorter road, the north-south road.

Okay, and the second item.

Second item would be not installing curb and gutter on coral um for the last third of the road.

Okay.

Uh third one is um working with city staff on changing the driveways to have flares, but be a little bit wider um to help um inexperienced drivers with U-Halls get in and out.

You're talking about the entry to the driveway to the okay.

Um I think the the parking relief is also on there for not needing 28 stalls under current code, um, and only uh providing five official parking stalls, but basically every there's plenty of parking um space in between the two buildings.

Okay, yeah.

Is there anything else that from the owner's perspective needs to be addressed?

Yeah.

Uh I I think one more point just to point out, because I uh based on the alderman's comment was um where the mechanical units are, they are outside ground mounted.

Um, they're not shown on the plans yet.

Once they are, we will provide screening around them and that uh with landscaping, and then that will all be sorted out with staff by the time we get we'll go for final permit.

Anything else, Chris?

I think that's yeah, right.

Okay, that's it.

Do we have questions for Chris on the items that we've just listed?

Commissioner Molson.

Um I kind of agree with the not doing the sidewalk on Dolphin Drive.

I drove through there, and that whole neighborhood only has sidewalk on one side of the street.

And so this since it does have sidewalk on one side of the street, it is a safe place to walk for uh for a pedestrian, and this would just be a kind of an empty segment.

And I also don't think there's all that many walkers other than the patrons of raised grain.

So I I kind of agree with that.

I I think we can come up with a motion to address the the driveway issue.

Um I do think we should uh require the curb and gutter on coral drive.

Um, but those are just my thoughts.

Um thank you.

Other comments from other commissioners?

Commissioner Granger.

I feel strongly that the sidewalk needs to be there because I go over there often to raise grain, and I feel like not having the sidewalk, and if you have more vehicles in the area, it just creates danger to pedestrians trying to walk to raise grain if they're parking along coral.

And I also agree that we should have curb and gutter installed on coral.

Yes, and sidewalk on Dolphin.

Correct.

Okay, did you have any comment about the driveway access?

I'm good with the flare.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Wells.

We're literally going down these so that we have a sense of the commissioner here.

As much as I'm usually the guy who's advocating for sidewalk, I'm skeptical that we will have an opportunity to add sidewalk on the rest of Dolphin any time in the near future.

Um I'm not sure that that's one I'm comfortable mandating here.

Um this is large with the exception of raised grain, this is a larger industrial area.

Um, I think if we've got concerns about sidewalk, we would want to address those at the raised grain property first, and probably do something with crossings across the across Dolphin Drive.

Um I don't know that once we add the driveway into this property that there's greater need for sidewalk on that side.

Um, I don't have a strong opinion on the curbing gutter at Coral.

Um, and I'm comfortable with the amount of parking that is on the property for its use.

Thank you for your comments.

And uh Commissioner Molson, do you have anything else to add to what you've already said?

I'm also comfortable with the number of parking spots that they have.

Okay.

Commissioner Keller.

Um how much um how much street parking is used on weekends for raised grain, do you know?

A lot.

A lot, even with the surface parking they have on site.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, there's never enough surface spots there.

So we have two commissioners who have personal experience with this.

And usually at the back of the I've been there, it's good.

I've been there.

Um next question is the site to the this will be to the north.

Is that a developable site, or is that just wetlands?

Find the building.

Do you know?

To the east, do you mean yeah, north is up on here.

North is up.

Yeah, to the to the east.

Uh, I would say no.

Um, there is a uh uh radio tower in the middle of that field.

Um they probably have lots of rights to it, and then that entire area is low and depressed.

Um it uh we have to continue to study that to figure out how we're gonna cross the ditch.

Not the point here, but um developing that would be quite an undertaking, and I don't know if the DNR would allow that much wetland to be filled.

So then the question is if that's a potential dead end road, do we need does the city need to look at a cul-de-sec that point for a vehicle turnaround?

This is more for city engineering, yeah.

I mean, just a stubbed off road makes no sense.

Right.

The I'm the engineering department comments at this time were just to get the curb in for that section of the road.

They had no mention of wanting to do a turnaround or anything at this time.

Okay.

Certainly the the driveway that uh Joe is proposing to install could be used as a turnaround, you know.

Yeah, there's always a T-turn, I suppose.

Uh called a second, okay.

Um, I guess I'm in favor of curb and gutter just because it cleans up what amounts to a dirty scenario for plowing and everything else.

Uh sidewalk, I guess I'm somewhat ambivalent.

Um, as long as there's a sidewalk on the other side, I think that's fine.

Uh thank you.

Uh I had an opportunity to go out there actually twice.

And um I would like to just uh add my comments because it's going to be a discussion tonight because we have a pine commission and we have two who believe this and three who believe that in terms of our recommendations.

Um I believe that because the city went through the effort to put together a sidewalk plan for this for the whole community and has weighted the importance of it.

Uh when a development comes in like yours, that's our sort of our only opportunity to um implement the plan that we have adopted.

So I would be in favor of the the sidewalk uh with regard to dolphin.

Uh I believe that the curb and gutter on coral um needs to be completed uh across the street, it's all curb and gutter.

And so I think that the um the continuation of it on coral is important.

I'm not quite that I understand your concerns that it's going to affect the runoff and that you have extra work to do because a curb and gutter of this small area would be installed.

Did you have any further comment on that?

Yeah, so that the road that the way that road's pitched, um, it's pitched towards the ditch.

Um that's on the opposite side of where would be the curb.

And so if we add in that curb and gutter, we're gonna stop that drainage.

And so we would have to figure out a way to accommodate the drainage.

Um storm sewer would require the storm sewer itself, probably this one structure wouldn't be a big deal, but the storm sewer has to go somewhere, which would be into the ditch, and so adding that extra permitting of the wetlands, I can't confirm we can even do that um yet.

So uh that would be a big challenge.

Uh would you please explain why you're raising the issue of a storm sewer?

So if you have the curb and gutter, we need the storm sewer to accommodate the drainage that's going to be blocked by that curb now.

Because right now it just sheet drains out into the ditch.

And so if we add in the storm sewer, the we would have to add a discharge point into the ditch, would which would just add complications with the permitting already required with the DNR and that ditch.

My confusion is who raised the issue of the storm sewer.

Is that a recommendation?

Well, no, I'm if you require the curb and gutter, we have to accommodate drainage.

We can't just put up a dam, which is what the curb and gutter would act like.

So I guess I would ask Megan, you can't just install part of a curb and gutter and have a cut between that would allow that water to exit, you know, exit.

Yeah, the engineering department comments were that they could either add storm structure to discharge or allow the curbed flow line to discharge along the east end terminus of coral, which would connect directly back into the wetland.

If it can't drain directly into the wetland, it can go to the end of the site to the adjacent east, which would connect directly back based on the the flow of the wetland.

And so again, their recommendation is the recommendation is curb and gutter.

Okay.

Thank you.

Are there any further questions before we start this discussion?

Um thank you, Chris, for your comments.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

And I would ask, is there anyone in the audience that wanted to add their comments before we have a discussion amongst the commissioners?

And is there any further comment from staff?

Megan, you or Doug?

Not at this time.

All right, thank you.

Well, let's bring it back here and try to see where we are on this.

Uh, first of all, we have the idea that we are we have a recommendation based on the sidewalk plan of the city that this is a medium requirement and that the staff is asking us to approve a sidewalk installation in Dolphin.

I understand I think Commissioner Mulston has Yeah, I mean I'm normally in side uh in favor of sidewalks too.

I just think this may be maybe I disagree with the sidewalk plan that this should be an orange section instead of a yellow section.

So right now you don't support right now.

I do not support uh forcing them to put in a sidewalk.

All right.

And I I agree with Alderman Wells that um that if we were gonna put in a sidewalk here, we would do it at raised grain, which is what's generating the pedestrians.

Uh thank you.

Our challenge is that raised grain is not in front of us tonight, and so we're going to have to deal with what we're being asked.

And um Commissioner Wells, did you want to make further comment?

Yeah, I so my concern with adding sidewalk at Dolphin and Coral is that that sidewalk doesn't go anywhere yet, um, which I realize I've made that argument the opposite way.

Yeah, I so my concern with adding sidewalk at Dolphin and Coral is that that sidewalk doesn't go anywhere yet, which I realize I've made that argument the opposite way, but there's not additional parking on Coral Drive.

The other side dolphin just as easily.

I think that there's a case to be made for having pedestrian crossings on dolphin to serve that need.

So I I don't know that I don't know that I can find the justification to complicate this project with the sidewalks there.

Thank you.

And uh Commissioner Keller.

Your comment about a requirement for a sidewalk on Dolphin.

Um I'm okay with curb and gutter sidewalk, I don't think is necessary, but I like to put the city on notice to figure out how they're gonna terminate Coral Drive in the future.

Because it appears everywhere else there's a call-de-sac uh when the properties dead end because that will affect, I guess, you know, the necessary for uh curb and gutter.

Okay, so I have an understanding of where the commission is on this.

Uh let me then go to the curb and gutter on coral.

Commissioner Granger, do you have a one other comment about the sidewalk?

I think like I said, I frequent over there and there's people parking everywhere to go to raise grain.

I understand it's their customers.

This isn't their cost to add this sidewalk, but I feel like if that sidewalk is not down there, it's never gonna get added.

The business is crazy when you go over there, especially on the weekend, there's cars parked everywhere.

And if people tend to park on coral or even in that parking lot that we see just south of coral, if a business isn't there, people will park anywhere.

And if they can get to the blue sidewalk, that's fine if there's pedestrian crossing, but there they'd cross to there and then they'd cross again to get back over to raised grain and the concern about this road being steep, maybe not as safe.

Then you have people walking there, especially when it gets dark out walking back and forth.

So that's why I'm a proponent for the sidewalk.

Um, as far as the curb and gutter, I think that's necessary if we're switching to that topic.

I think it's necessary, yes, you to make the okay make coral look complete on the end.

And I think if engineering said you could just install that curbing gutter and let it run off to the east into the west land wetland, I don't know why we need to tie into the sewer system if that can just run off into the wetland.

If I'm understanding correctly what engineering recommended, I think engineering is probably fine with it, but the DNR might have other opinions because it's wetland.

And that would be where the investigation delay or the challenge would be.

And that would happen after we take a position on this.

And so uh Commissioner Wells, your position on coral.

I don't have a strong opinion either way.

Okay.

Um I think the curb and gutter should be installed.

Okay, Commissioner Keller.

Okay, and I agree with both of you in terms of the coral.

Okay, for the record, uh, Commissioner Keller said he agreed that the curb and gutter should be installed.

We didn't have his bike for it.

Thank you.

Okay, then that takes us to the driveway.

Uh is the commission comfortable with the driveway dimension and uh design to be between the applicant and the staff once this approval is granted.

Okay, thank you.

And the applicant is asking for relief from the required parking in front of their building.

Right now they are proposing five spaces.

Is the commission comfortable with that?

Yes.

Okay.

So where we really are that we will need a motion that includes one set or another of requirements, and we'll have to take a vote on that.

So I'm gonna attempt this, and but I we're we're a commission of friends, right?

Yes.

So if I if I miss some detail or misrepresent it, I'm sure that they'll help me out with this.

My intent is to have a motion that allows people to vote for or against, depending upon what is included in it.

So I would move that the commission grant final site plan and architectural approval to the Dolphin Drive, Coral Drive, application for store it right, and require that or give that applicant uh relief to allow five parking spaces to be able to negotiate and uh discuss with the staff what type of driveway access and dimension will be allowed, and to uh require curb and gutter to be installed on coral drive, and to also require that sidewalk be installed on dolphin.

Is there a second to that motion?

Granger seconds.

So we know that this has all of the recommendations that have come forward to us from the staff, and we know that there are um a variety of opinions about this.

Would you like some further discussion?

Commissioner Molson.

Do you want to add to your motion uh the other staff comments to be addressed?

Yes, and thank you for that save.

Okay.

So my motion would include, and I imagine Commissioner Granger would agree with that, that in addition to what I said would also be the um staff comments from engineering, etc.

Thank you for that.

Is there further discussion since you know what the motion says seems to me the delta here is a sidewalk extension on dolphin?

Pardon me.

That's the that's the delta.

That's that's the difference between okay.

Seeing no further discussion.

When you were, you know, taking notes and everything, I thought it was me, Keller, and Wells against the sidewalk.

So you would you didn't go with the majority?

I'm kind of coming around to the sidewalk after further discussion.

Um so I guess I at this point I I am in favor of sidewalk.

And then I think with that, having installed if we do vote to install sidewalk at Dolphin, that the remaining section of Dolphin that is medium priority should then become high priority as part of our sidewalk plan.

So that would be your comment to the staff.

Yes.

Going forward.

And Commissioner Keller kind of anti-sidewalk, I don't think it's necessary.

We have it on the other side of the street.

Uh the major um user for the sidewalk is not gonna have it installed, which would be raised grain.

And uh the rest of the industrial parks already developed, and so until those things change, the sidewalks won't be added.

So you're looking out a long way in the future for that to happen.

So as long as it's on one side of the street, um, that would be the best I think we can get in an industrial park.

Commissioner Molson.

Well, and I I also agree that the we don't need a sidewalk there, um, particularly for this location, but it also affects their the the nature of the driveway.

So to have a safer safer driveway and uh and a you know just an empty segment of sidewalk, I I would rather have the safer, less steep driveway.

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion for the sidewalk again?

I I understand the safety of the driveway, but I feel like pedestrians walking is more of my concern and a safety for them.

So that's why I'm in favor of it.

Thank you.

And then back to the curb and gutter.

Um in the motion, I feel like what was brought up regarding the uh drainage not being allowed to the wetland, can we add a commentary that that has to be reviewed with the DNR?

Because if they're not going to allow drainage to go into the wetland, that may be uh a stopper on us asking for the curb and gutter.

I think that we can take we can have a vote, we can take uh make a decision on this, and then if this causes a problem with the DNR and the applicant can bring it back and ask to have a further review based on the DNR's objection if that occurs.

Okay.

May I not sure if I'm allowed to.

No.

I think the commission would probably be in favor of allowing you to speak.

Yes, sure.

I I do just want to clarify.

I don't think the DNR is gonna say you can't drain to the wetland.

It's just about how you drain to the wetland, and that's that's the kicker.

So adding in storm sewer would require wetland disturbance, and that's the permitting hiccup.

If that's the approach that you take.

But I think this is really a discussion between you and the DNR.

Yes, yeah.

And also the city because it's your right-of-way, and if we don't add uh a curve and gutter, and we we just let it uh we're concentrating the flow once you add that curb and gutter, and so you could get erosion issues at the end where it dips off into the right-of-way.

So it yeah, which then would be on the city to maintain that those erosion issues.

So which is I think a further discussion from within the action on the commission.

Yeah, okay.

Thanks, Chris.

Sorry.

Commissioner Keller.

So just a quick suggestion that maybe you create a profile between the curb gutter and um the building just to see what kind of issues you have.

Thank you.

I think we're ready to vote.

Okay, so all those in favor of the motion as stated with the addition of the staff comments, please say aye.

Aye.

All right, thank you for that, Maria.

Uh let's let's individually vote.

Commissioner Callis?

Aye.

Aye.

No.

Commissioner.

Aye.

So this uh is a final vote from the plan commission as opposed to taking it to the common council.

So being on the plan commission is a challenging role for all of us because we bring different uh perspectives to it.

I appreciate the concern of the commissioners who voted yes and the concern of the commissioners who voted no.

So should this go forward and the applicant finds that one of the things that we voted on is caused a disturbance to the plan as a whole.

We want the plan to go forward, and we want you to bring your business to Waukeshaw, and we want to be able to uh work with you to make that work.

As of tonight, the vote says we required certain things.

So if you do find that there are problems going forward, and you have a basis to bring it back to the commission to have it reviewed, uh, I would encourage that you do that.

So thank you for everybody for our conversation tonight.

Uh Megan, I believe that there's also another item here, the certified survey map.

That's correct.

Please go ahead.

Sure.

All right, for the certified survey map, Dolphin Coral Drive, Stewart Wright, a request to approve a one-lot CSM covering 4.2712 acres of land at the northeast corner of Coral Drive and Dolphin Drive, located in the M1 light manufacturing district.

I will make a motion to approve with any staff comments.

Uh there's been a motion and a second.

Is there any discussion?

If not, we're ready to vote.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Thank you.

That was a unanimous vote from the commission for the certified survey map.

Um thank you for everyone who participated in this tonight.

The next item on our agenda is a minor site plan and architectural review for the property at 1343 Ellis Street.

Zender marketing, and a request to approve plans for a 690 square foot addition to the west end of the building for needed warehouse space located in the M2 General Manufacturing District.

Thane, I believe this is yours.

It is.

And good evening.

Thank you.

As you just said, this is the presentation for the uh minor site plan and architectural review at 1343 Ellis Street.

So here is some satellite imagery of the property.

It is on the east side of the city, just west of the last Paul Parkway.

Highlighted here are the areas that would be affected under this plan.

This is some images uh taken from the street.

So here is a site plan for the existing conditions on the property.

In the hashed areas, you can see where there would be construction or changes.

On the east side of the property, there is a concrete pad that extends out to the property line.

And then on the west side of the property, there is a portion of the driveway that extends south and sort of wraps along the building.

So here is the proposed site plan.

On the east side of the property, uh, where that concrete pad was that will be reconstructed to feature a handicapped parking stall as well as an ADA accessible sidewalk.

It will also be shortened so it will no longer abut the property line.

As you saw in the pictures, the dumpsters are currently stored sort of in the corner of the building here.

This is a floor plan for the uh proposed addition.

As you can see, there will be a new overhead door facing Ellis Street to the north.

Here we have some more uh detailed uh schematics and elevations for the dumpster enclosure and the the building addition.

The panels and roofing would match the existing warehouse.

The dumpster enclosure would be made of uh concrete masonry bricks, and then uh facing the driveway to the east, there will be a um latch gate, and the applicant said that this would be screened with cedar boards.

So this site is zoned M2 General Manufacturing.

Uh, as stated, the addition is about 690 square feet.

It will aesthetically match the existing building.

Uh the concrete pad will then feature an ADA uh accessible handicap parking spot um and a smaller footprint and adding dumpster enclosure.

So staff recommends approval.

Um the only comments added to this one is from the engineering division and the water utility.

Uh you can see it there on your screen.

Um, this seems to be more as a if needed condition.

Uh the fire department did not add anything to this.

Okay, thank you, Thane.

Do we have questions for Thane?

No.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the audience that would like to address the plan commission on this item?

Is the applicant here?

Do you have any further comments?

It's all been covered as far as you're concerned.

Okay, thank you very much.

Then I will bring it back to the plan commission.

I will make a motion to approve with all staff comments.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Thank you, Commissioner Granger.

There's a motion and a second uh to adopt this along with the staff comments.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

I would just like to make a comment, and that is I went to Ellis Street, and I want to compliment the owner uh in terms of what you've done in terms of the attractiveness of your site and the um attention to detail, and that this will just um enlarge your business opportunity, which we congratulate you on, but also thank you for the work that you've done to add to the attractiveness of Ellis Street.

The next item on our agenda is a consultation, and that just means that the applicant is here so that before they proceed in any specific direction, they have some idea what the plan commissioners uh would like to comment about their proposal.

So I believe Doug, you're going to take us through this.

Uh yes, I will.

Um, so like you said, this is just a consultation.

So the developer just wants to introduce the project to the commission and then get any feedback you may have on design elements, architectural styles, or any other concerns that come out at you based on what what he proposes before you this evening.

So this is over on Niagara Street.

And that is on uh just to the east of there we go.

Just to the east of Frame Park, just south of Morland Boulevard, and a little further east of White Rock.

Currently, there is the former Navistar Industrial site, which has uh been raised at this time, just a vacant open industrial site.

Um then there was residential uh across the street from that on Niagara.

Um residential continues up to Moorland with mixtures of uh multifamily, single family, um, some senior housing, nursing home, um, condos, uh big mix of everything uh throughout that neighborhood.

Here's a close-up of the site in question.

Uh the site's about 0.75 acres.

There's currently two parcels here.

Um, there still are under the M1 zoning, so if this were to go forward, it would be need to be rezoned for residential, obviously.

Um, but this was uh land uh that had been used for uh kind of storage purposes for trucks and trailers in the past.

Um now that there's no longer any heavy active industrial use on the property across the street.

Um it seems like the use for maybe residentials could be considered at this location, especially as you see here on the photo, there is uh quite a bit of uh residential properties directly around and adjacent to it, um, some single family as well as a I guess the four unit up here on the corner of Niagara and Cleveland.

Here's just a picture to kind of familiarize you with the site.

Um so this is looking up Niagara to the east on the top, and here you can see that's just uh it's a vacant uh paved site at this time.

There is some fencing around the perimeter, and then on the bottom you can just see looking to the south down the hill or to the west down the hill.

So here's the proposal that uh the developer would like to consider on this site.

They're looking at 24 units on the uh three-quarters of an acre property.

Um it would be in uh spread over a series of five two-story buildings.

Um the three buildings that uh run adjacent to Niagara Street uh would have garage units.

That's this darker gray here attached to a couple of the units in the building.

Otherwise, there's uh surface parking for the rest of the development.

Um then the the two interior buildings uh would not have the garage units.

Um, so their residents would all be using the surface parking as well.

The proposed surface parking on the site includes 14 identified surface parking spaces, and then there are six garage spaces within the project.

So that brings a total to 20, and then they do sort of highlight possible two uh or a parking space in front of each of the garage doors, which would add six to bring uh total to um I guess 26 for the site.

Um, but it's it's unclear how these would be used.

Uh they wouldn't be able to use for the general development because if anyone just blocks it, they wouldn't be able to get out of the garages.

So it so basically they're they're showing 20 accessible parking spaces for the 24 units that they're proposing at this time.

So they would need some parking relief if that this were to go forward.

Also, they do um there would be some concerns with setbacks.

Um assuming this is going to go into our new zoning code when plans would come through, it'd be in our RN4 zoning district, which would have a 15-foot setback along Niagara Street and a 25-foot setback on the rear lot line.

Um so it looks like those buildings aren't being aren't meeting that.

They would probably need to have some kind of PUD agreement to be able to accomplish design it as it's laid out here.

Um the building up to the right on the north side of the lot gets very close to the lot line.

Um not sure how we'd be able to handle screening or anything with that in the future.

Um, so that maybe get a little tight there, but something for some discussion points as we can get into it further and you can have some conversation with the developer.

But this seems to be a pinch point there that may make it a little too tight to work.

Something to be considered, I guess.

As far as the architecture of the buildings go, um, again, they're two-story buildings with a mix of uh vertical and horizontal siding, shingle shingled roofs.

Um this is the the typical building that you'd see along Niagara Street side.

So then on the interior off the parking lot, you can see where they have those two garage doors then um and then access doors are from the inside of the uh break in the building out on um Niagara Street.

You can see they're the balconies out on the top units or little patio porch spaces um facing out then directly onto Niagara for pedestrian walk-up.

And then on the other buildings, again, basically the same architecture with the mix of vertical and horizontal siding, um, lots of windows, um, but but they don't have the garage spaces.

And they provided us several renderings just kind of showing how that could look along Niagara.

So this would be the three buildings along Niagara Street.

You just kind of see how the gives a nice street presence.

And then the same ones looking up the street on Niagara.

I think there's one more.

Yeah, here's the interior of the site.

So you can see the parking along this side with behind the buildings that face out to Niagara, and then the proposed uh units on uh the two buildings on the interior of the lot.

They also do show some little open space amenities there to the north of the building, uh or excuse me, to the east of the buildings uh where the driveway would come in to have some uh shared common space.

Um so at this time, no formal action is to be taken on this item.

It's an opportunity for you to have a discussion with the developer, other developers here.

Um would invite that discussion, but before that, um the Alderman Alderman Christine has sent in a message he wasn't able to make it, and he apologized for that.

Um, but he wanted me to read his comments about the project in to the record.

I have met with Duan Cherry, DBA Cherry Faith, many times and have reviewed his proposals.

I support what has been proposed so far and feel it will be a good fit for the neighborhood.

There is a very similar property on Niagara that has been listed for sale, and I hope similar development will be proposed.

This is a great fit to improve the neighborhood surrounding the former Navistar Foundry.

That's from Alderman Christine Naldman of the district.

Thank you, Doug.

Uh would you bring up the exhibit that is kind of a view of Niagara?

Um almost up to Cleveland.

The rendering or the photo?

The photo.

Sure.

Thank you.

This top photo would be Cleveland up at the top of the hill.

Yes.

So uh would you show us where the end of the development is?

Is it where the fencing is?

Yeah, so on the south side, the end of development is right here along the fence line.

So just off of the screen would be the corner of the lot.

And on the bottom picture that you've taken there?

On the bottom picture, it lot comes up to, I think about where the screen space ends in the tree line starts here.

Ah, okay.

Thank you.

If I go to the next slide, this kind of shows it on aerial, then how high up that is.

So you can see here's that tree line that was there in that photo at the Cleveland would be just off to the right here.

Okay, thank you very much.

You mentioned that the applicant is here.

Would you like to address the commission?

Please give your name and your address.

Absolutely.

Uh Dewan Cherry.

4700 West Coast Spring Road, Greenfield, Wisconsin, 5320.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear your name.

Uh Dewan Cherry.

Thank you.

So a little bit uh, you know, uh, you know, about my background.

I specialize in housing adults and families with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

Um my story more than anything started when I attended Concordia University of Wisconsin.

I was a RAM at the time the organization was named Bethesda.

Uh now they're named Ableite.

And I do think that is important to note because um, you know, 11 of the units, or excuse me, four of the well, eleven of the units would be affordable, but four to four of the units will be type A.

Um, so you know, this model and and future models like this, or if the architecture is a little bit different, they will always have um units that are type A for you know, individuals that live by themselves but have a disability, or they have uh family that takes care of their son or daughter.

Um that is you know the foundation as as which my basin is my businesses laid on, and I want to continue with that.

Um I've had numerous conversations with Doug and Jeff.

Um, and and I think they can also share that same sentiment and passion.

And so with this particular uh project, um, you know, I obviously identified, you know, there's a lot of single family um in the in the area.

Um, you know, he gave me great feedback in terms of you know the density, right?

Um so I just want to uh make sure this is on record.

Uh we did you know, scale back and go to two a 20-unit model.

We think that would make sense.

Um so it'll be uh 20 units, not 24 units.

I just want to make sure that that goes on record, um, mainly because we want to make sure that we don't you know go too you know big in terms of you know making sure it's not as aesthetically pleasing or it's not you know the height isn't um you know too high where it doesn't look like it doesn't belong there.

So I just want to make sure that you know that is uh uh update that we made.

Um other than that, uh going back to the affordable, um obviously it's a national conversation, but it's also um something that I would like to note as well, too.

So just in terms of the uh rent level uh for one bedroom units, we are looking for uh uh 1027 for one bedroom units, and that is by HUD standard.

Um for two bedroom uh uh affordable, we are looking at 1257.

Um market rate, obviously, we just kind of take comps from the area and you know implement that within our pro forma.

Um two bedroom at the highest will be 2,000, um, two bedroom for uh market rate um would be about or excuse me for one bedroom would be 16, roughly 1600-ish.

Um obviously, you know, to put together a project to make sure it's financially feasible.

Um, you know, we want to make sure we add that affordability component.

If we could have all units affordable, that'd be fantastic.

Um, but you know, we want to make sure that at the end of the day it's financially feasible so that when we take it, of course, to a bank and things like that, they are able to say, you know, it's great, um, we're able to, you know, finance this thing.

Um we are you know working with other organizations um and walkershaw to get other funding sources as well too.

Um so walkershaw uh we are working, um excuse me, I'm working with uh Kristen uh Sylvia Um from Walkershaw Home Funds uh to get some home funds part of this project as well, too.

Um I am working with MEDC and Walkershaw County Center for Growth or Walkershaw County Growth Funds um to add you know funds there as well too.

Uh putting together affordable housing deals, it can be very, very difficult, right?

And any affordable housing developer can you know we'll will share that same sentiment.

Um, you know, Litech going that route is very competitive.

Um and so that's why we rely on our municipal local municipalities to you know get certain you know uh incentives um to help out um with the pro forma side of things.

Um but other than that, um very excited uh to to hear comments to hear feedback and things like that.

I do have my architect present for anything architectural wise and my guy uh excuse me, general contractor representative as well, too.

So thank you.

Did you have a comment?

Do you notice when Doug was presenting, he we were talking about setbacks and one particular unit seemed to be of concern?

Yes, that uh two bedroom at the two bedroom 900 square foot at the near that that uh that property line.

Hi, my name is Felipe Renales.

I'm with Angberg Anderson Architects.

Uh 320 East Buffalo Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Um that unit um we're very early in design, so there's an opportunity to massage those plans.

Maybe even take those two units in the back and and put them together and make an eight-unit to get some relief from that setback requirement.

So there's a lot of options out there right now.

Okay.

Thank you for your comments.

And when you mentioned you were talking about Kristen Silva from the from the county.

Yes.

Yes, that's that's um, so that's well, we apply for like walkershire home funds.

So it's essentially, yeah, yeah, okay.

Kind of uh more than anything, uh low cost debt that we that we that will hoping to acquire.

Okay, yeah.

Thank you for that.

Um before we have a discussion, are there any questions for either of these gentlemen before we go forward here?

No, sir.

Apparently not, but don't leave the building.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Commissioner Keller.

Quick question before you disappear into the crowd.

Um I think the idea of potentially taking the two northerly buildings and putting together uh makes some sense to reduce the setback issues.

Um or possibly flipping the buildings over and turning your one bedroom 90 degrees to allow for the distance.

The other thing I might suggest is um some sidewalks from uh the street between the buildings to get to the rear building because you're allowed to have guests and those guests are probably gonna be parking on the street as opposed to in the parking lot.

Um and if so, they're gonna need to get from the buildings in front to the buildings in the rear time uh would make some sense.

Um I have no negative comments to just uh and you're trying to get uh 10 pounds in a five-pound bag, which is usually the case to maximize the development.

So there's just some comments that uh you might want to work with.

Absolutely.

Um actually one last thing as well, too.

Um it's in its planning stages, but if you can go to the like kind of the aerial um uh uh Niagara Park.

It's yes.

Um I have I I believe you uh Doug and I spoke up spoke about this briefly, but I um I did uh call the I think parks and recreation.

I didn't get a call back yet, but we would like to, if not when the development is completed, um of the fourth for the year, but I do also want to go on record by saying we do want to um add a public park on uh Niagara Park, um like a like a for kids to play and things like that.

Um you know when I saw this parcel, right?

Um, of course, there's you know challenges with you know it being multi-family and kind of surrounded by you know single families there and you know, kind of scattered of multi-family.

We said, how can we you know give back to this community?

How can or your count how can we just get back to the city of Walkershaw as a whole?

Not just the neighborhood, but just the city, right?

Um so um I will you know it's in this planning stages, but I I am working on how we can get a public park um for kids to play for families to kind of hang out there um on officially on uh uh Niagara Park.

Uh, right now I know it has just two trees and it's just kind of grass, like kind of grass area there.

But I would love to um also add as part of like you know, this was provided by you know Cherry Faith, um, you know, a public park um on uh Niagara Park.

So thank you for that additional information.

Absolutely.

Uh Commissioner Keller, you had the opportunity that you could make all of the comments you wanted to.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Mallsar.

I thought this looked crowded.

I went over to the site site and I thought it looked crowded, and I was wondering how you're gonna handle the elevation change, is some of the buildings gonna look kind of sunken.

So I had that from I thought the architecture was nice now that I found out that it's good, you know, affordable and you're considering a playground.

That's that's excellent news.

I you know sure appreciate that.

And um I'm also concerned about the the setback issue because I want people to have a little bit of outdoors space.

Um the parking looks kind of limited, but I'm you know supportive of the project overall, and I I hope we can come to um an agreement that works for everybody.

Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Wells.

So to start, I I think that anything you build there is gonna be more attractive than the current use.

Um I'm a low leery of that rear setback.

I know that tends to be an issue when you're building next to people's homes.

Um, I would be slightly concerned that with that close there's no opportunity for screening um between the building and the rear setback.

Um so I I think there's maybe ways to work around that.

I'm very comfortable with the even a zero lot line development on Niagara Street.

Um I think that as we look to redevelop the Navstar property as a whole, um this is kind of a unique space.

It's on a major bus line, probably one of our most substantial bus lines running out to um to the rest of Milwaukee.

It's uh it's a established route, it's a good route.

Um, you know, if there's opportunities to leverage that with parking, um, especially if we're looking at affordable, you know, either parking at the uh at the parking ramp down here with bus access or using a bus to get around for most of your um residence travel.

Um I was curious, I was looking at the GIS maps.

It seems like the intersection at Niagara and Cleveland is city right away.

And looking at your plan where you have your dumpster enclosure, I'm curious if there's an opportunity to exit more directly onto Niagara and do a single single direction through the property, or do you have your uh drive lane around the outside of the property to make the most of your space to either do angle parking, have kind of a one-way flow around the property that might get your your rear set back if you push the buildings towards Niagara and have the drive lane run around.

Um I'm very I like this idea.

I think it's uh it's a good fit for a property.

Um I'd like to see Navstar develop more densely, and this is a good toe dip into that.

Um the architecture is interesting, it's a little different than we've got in the area, but uh I think it's very attractive, and I think the mission behind it is very good.

Yeah, for the it's just to want to make sure I clarify.

So for the entryway, um essentially it would it would kind of be an entry to exit going so coming off of uh Niagara and then coming back on.

Um I'm just trying to think if I'm if I'm you know, like you know, garbage man, you know, kind of pick it up um instead of reversing well, yeah.

Kind of clarify just a little bit more.

I just want to make sure I understand.

So if you were to have a one-way flow of traffic, okay.

Um, either from from either way, but instead of having a sidewalk to the plan west, you would have a drive lane.

And so instead of your drive lane being two cars wide to be able to drive back and forth, if you just had one-way entrance and exit.

Okay.

That might narrow down your amount of um well, asphalt to then have more space for building.

Okay.

And then maybe you can even make that more of a straight shot if there's we can work with the city to um I believe the property at plan east is city right away.

And so maybe there's a way to work that into the plan.

Okay, right where the pointer is right now.

Thank you.

Commissioner Granger.

I was happy when you first came up and you said that you already are changing from 24 units to 20.

Because right away I felt this is way too crowded for this site.

So knowing that it's going dead 20 units makes me feel much better, especially with the parking situation.

I do uh agree with Commissioner Wells about the front of the property.

I have no problem with it being close to the street and not worrying about the setback there.

But on the rear of the property, I think you definitely need to focus on maintaining that setback, especially considering the properties that are right on the other side and those private homes and such, they probably don't want to have a building encroaching so much on their yard.

Otherwise, I I really like this.

I think it's a great use of this site and the neighborhood that it's in.

I I think it'll be welcomed to be in this neighborhood.

Okay.

So I would love to see this come into town.

Okay.

Um I've been there twice.

And the first time I didn't quite get as far up as your lots, so I went back this morning.

Um I'm delighted to see this proposal.

I think that it complements actually uh, even though there are single family homes between your property and proposal and the main street where you exit off of Niagara, we have some um affordable housing and some uh good structures there too.

So I think this kind of complements it in terms of its fitting in with the neighborhood.

I would like to make a side comment, and that is as you go along and get further along, that I always always encourage you to have a neighborhood meeting so they know what's going on.

Absolutely.

And uh they have some input for you.

I'm I'm going to just uh pause for a second.

Doug, my question to you is um in talking to people, a PUD has been mentioned.

So if that was required and would address some of the setback and some of the things that uh Commissioner Wells is talking about, what would initiate a PUD for this development?

Um any time you can't meet the requirements of the zoning code, but think you can come pretty close and you think that the trade-offs would benefit the city by doing that, that's when you'd propose to do a PUD.

And would you say that this is beginning to look like it might be a candidate for that?

As it looks here on this initial layout, it's gonna be very difficult to meet the setbacks with the the number of buildings as proposed.

Um so then a PUD would be the first step to try to find a way to maybe make that work if site design and relayouts can't quite meet all those setbacks.

Okay.

And I think PUD is an interesting conversation for the plan commission because that means the city is participating in the development and therefore wants to have a say.

Absolutely.

So uh are there any further comments?

Uh we welcome your proposal.

We encourage you to continue with that.

Thank you.

And we're happy to clarify anything along the way, or uh certainly working with the staff will reflect some of our uh previous decisions on other developments.

Awesome.

Pardon me.

Do you have any questions?

I was gonna I just had one.

Um with the PUD uh, you know, you know, once we you know kind of tweak and modify our plans and things like that, um, you know, then the next steps would be you know, PUD, correct?

After we go back and you know, kind of I think it was the the two bedroom, kind of tweak the things that we need to tweak, um, which you then say, okay.

Um we we kind of agree to the changes that you've made, then move to the PUD, or I guess what along that went along that process, which you I think I'd like to have the staff comment, but that would be something that they would begin to discuss with you if they thought that it was appropriate.

Okay.

Doug, would you would you clean this up?

Yes.

And so, like we've had previous discussions on this site and other sites you've looked at, we would have more discussions on that until we come up with a plan that you're feeling really comfortable with.

Okay, then we'll apply the zoning code to that more specifically and see if we do need to make some changes or need relief from anything, that's when we would start to talk about doing a planned unit development.

Okay.

Um but before that would come, you know, we would you'd want to probably revise your plans, go over them with the aldermen and also have a neighborhood meeting before that as well.

Okay, share your plans with the neighborhood and uh see if there's any comments there.

Okay.

And also um, I'm not sure if there are any people from the neighborhood that wanted to speak.

If you would like to, this would be the part of the time to invite them forward as well.

Thank you.

Yeah, no problem at all.

Are there people here in the audience that would like to address the plan commission?

Wait, if you have some questions, please come to the microphone.

Identify yourself by name and address.

My name is Diana Bauer, South 62, West 22, 980, Town Line Road, Walkershaw.

And the first thing was, how do you spell your last name, Don?

My last name.

Yeah.

Oh, it's Harry, I'm your group.

Oh, it is Cherry.

Okay.

Very good.

So my question was, and and it's a again, it's a question.

On that, on the far right side is a little gray box.

It's off the white.

What is that?

That's the trash?

Okay.

And on the far north side on the please address your please address your questions to staff or the count.

Okay, and then on my apologies.

And on the far right side of the second blue box, the one that's almost touching.

What is that?

I think that's a the patio where they were showing the picnic area.

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Um, because I own that four-family complex.

The the four family um rental.

That's mine.

And so I that's where the trash is.

Now I do see that the Niagara doesn't just kind of swoop.

It's an angle street, and there's a corner.

And I know it's a corner, because the first year that we bought the building, the apartment, there's a corner, and this uh we have to keep that corner clean by snow.

Do you know how I know that?

I didn't the first year really well, and I gotta find for it.

I gotta find for it.

So that corner is mine, and the way this picture is depicted.

Oops, no, is that corner isn't quite there.

So I'm I'm concerned that no, go back to the with the blue there one.

That they're cutting off part of my my corner.

So that's so I do look forward to the survey, is what I'm coming to.

Um I know the people in my building are are not as enthused as some of you are with as many people as are coming here.

So um they they are a little concerned, and um, that's I'm I'm speaking on behalf of my tenants, is what it comes to.

So they they do have concern, and I'm just letting you know that they have concern with um as many people are coming, and if it's very affordable housing, and I don't know what the cost of this housing would be because they are not affordable housing, they're regular housing.

Oop, regular housing, they have concern of what affordable housing is, and that certainly makes it interesting for me as a landlord, because if I have everybody leaving, that's not going to be real good for me.

And if that's not real good for me, I'm gonna have to sell.

And if I have to sell, no one's gonna want to buy, and it's gonna be uh it's a snowball all of a sudden.

So that puts me in a pickle and it puts my tenants in a pickle, and um so that's the way it goes.

I'm just giving my opinions.

So that's where I stand.

Thank you for your comments.

Thank you.

Hello, good evening.

Would you give us your name and address, please?

Karina Mandiola, 914 Niagara Street.

Um, I'm actually right on this side of all on this left side of this document.

Um, I was actually gonna bring up the corner she was talking about.

Um, because a long, long time ago, I grew up on this property.

I've been there 30 years now.

Um, I helped them mow their lawn up at that four family, and it went into where their driveway is depicted on here, their proposed driveway.

But um, regardless, that being said, too, is that entire block, the lots are off.

We know this from our immediate neighbors next door to us, our neighbors behind us, Kitty Corner.

Everyone has we're sharing everybody's little piece of land, so I think that would change this entire map entirely for a lot of different ways.

Um also, as of right now, someone had said that lock lot is vacant.

Um, it is not.

There are um work trucks parked there, they look brand spanking new right now.

Um, prior to that, it was an overflow lot for a used car salesperson.

Um, I used to help them keep an eye on the lot growing up over there back when they were still there.

Um a good time with their cars parked right next to each other.

That lot fit maybe 55 cars with one way in and only one way out, and not even double traffic, so there's like no room in that lot at all whatsoever.

Um also someone had brought up about the bus line that this is a really busy bus line in in and out of Milwaukee.

It hasn't been for a few years, they took that away.

Um, the bus doesn't even go on Niagara anymore or even up on Cleveland.

You have to go all the way down to Right Rock now.

Um, and the gentleman wanting to bring all this had talked about putting the park up where that where that grassy knoll is I call it we have up there.

Um I remember years and years ago when that lot originally came and it was the grassy knoll, someone had tried to do that, but I believe it was because of certain things with the road and also what was in the ground, they couldn't make a playground there, so it had to stay as is, and it has a you know, gotta pick up after your dog sign up there and whatnot.

So I'm not too thrilled about this, and I mean, if you see at the picture there, there's like no room for us to breathe next to there, just as is as the picture.

So um, I just really hope you guys think about this, and please keep us in the loop.

I think a lot of a lot of us would like to speak on this when we all know about it.

Thank you for your comment again.

Please your name and address.

Yes, I'm Kelly Mendiola.

I also live at 914 Niagara Street, and um, I'm concerned about the parking for even 20.

Um you're gonna have visitors, and right down the block.

I'll just give you a suggestion uh some information right down the block is frame park.

They have many um festivals and stuff at Frank Park.

They have what's coming up August 9th, the um old car club.

When people come to park on Niagara Street, they park right in my driveway.

Okay, and I've been fighting this for now, it it's actually like 40 years we've been there, and there's not enough parking for all those apartments, and then to have their visitors come, you know, people want to be comfortable, and with the lot that's there right now, um, even with him there with all the cars, they would park in front of our driveway.

I'm old now, so I don't need to get out of my driveway, but my daughter does when she goes to work.

Um the parking is not ample for that many apartments.

I'm not uh builder or whatever, an architect or anything like that, but there will be problems with parking.

I am entirely against everything that was said tonight for this place.

Um the people up on the hill, that lady's apartment building, they're awesome people.

I think the people down the other way on my block are awesome people.

Do we really want to disrupt the whole neighborhood?

I don't think so.

Okay.

Thank you for your comments.

Is there anyone else here who wanted to be heard?

My name is Shane Peterson.

I live at 826 Niagara, just down the street.

I don't know if I want to be heard per se.

Um I don't I have questions, maybe not specifically to this.

But when something like this is going to take place, how come uh the residents in the immediate vicinity are not made aware of this?

It sometimes depends upon uh things such as zoning, and I wonder, Doug, did you want to make a comment about this?

Sure.

The when a rezoning petition will come in uh in the future for this project, the city will be notifying everyone that's part of our policy.

Uh, when someone just wants a consultation with the plan commission, um, they schedule that and have that meeting with the plan commission.

And in this case, we did send out notifications to the neighborhood that this meeting was occurring.

Yeah, I didn't get one.

Uh that could be uh you mentioned 8006.

The notifications go out within 300 feet of the property.

Um that's what the city guidelines call for.

And then we found that that works well because then neighbors tend to talk with each other and it spreads very quickly through the neighborhood, right?

Right.

Um, but our legal guidelines are 300 feet from the property boundaries.

So if you didn't make if you missed getting a notification, I'm sorry about that.

But our policy is always 300 feet.

And then secondly, when you guys were discussing adjustments that would need to be made on those plans before they get brought forth, and then you would discuss things in what was that thing you called a PUD?

Is that it?

And yeah, that's a planned unit development where to make special arrangements for it.

And is that when the public is brought in to discuss those matters?

Is that what we're doing?

Yes, so that would that would be part of the rezoning process, which you'll neighbors would be notified of, and there'll be a a discussion here with the plan commission regarding that PUD, then they make a recommendation onto the common council, and there's a formal public hearing before the common council to uh discuss that and hear further concerns.

Okay, so you'd have multiple opportunities to come before yeah, so thank you for that clarification.

So my question then is if thing if adjustments were made and it was brought back to you and they all seem to fit and there was another discussion, could it bypass the PUD and then still not be brought to the to the community before it then comes to get passed by the committee?

In this case, no, because the land is currently zoned uh manufacturing.

Okay, and it has to at least be rezoned to a residential use for this to happen.

And that will also trigger notifying the neighborhood.

Okay.

And it'll be the same process before the plan commission and then before the common council with the formal public hearing.

Okay, I thank you for that clarification.

And then one more question, and I don't I don't know if you guys are at liberty to answer this.

Uh, is this being backed by part of the federal grant money for this development?

Can I ask them that?

Can I ask you that?

Can I who who can I ask?

Is there is there like TIFF money or is that what that federal money behind this?

First of all, the commission doesn't know the answer.

Yeah, I know you'd I don't know who I can ask.

Secondly, I would suggest that um it's going to be the developer who's going to have to put together the financial and the grants and so forth to make this work.

So I would address that to him after the meeting is over.

But I also would like to let you know, and the neighbors know that the agenda for Plan Commission, for example, and the common council are published, and those agendas would re would list something if it had to do with anything with this property.

Right, right.

I just don't I don't know where to find that.

As at a citizen, I don't know where to locate that.

And so that that's all I'm I'm saying.

As a the city, yes, the city has a website, and on the website are all of the agendas for all of the various functions of the city.

So in this case, it would be the plan commission and it would be the common council.

And Doug would that that would cover it, yes.

Correct.

To change that, it has to come here, and this body then makes a recommendation to the common council and they take the final action.

So there's more than one opportunity for the neighborhood to be heard.

Excellent.

Excellent.

And I appreciate that.

I've got yes, sir.

I would also just add that your alderman is Mike Christine.

He couldn't be here tonight.

He had some comments that he had read into the record.

Um your alderman's a great person to discuss this.

If you have more questions, need clarification, they're a great conduit to then get those answers for you and advocate if you have a position that you would like to be heard because the elders do vote on this once it's recommended by the plan commission.

Excellent.

Thank you.

And he's your direct uh connection to all of these functions.

Okay.

Mike Christine.

Mike Christine?

Yes.

And his his contact info is gonna be on the city website.

Okay.

Thank you.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

And if you have trouble finding the agenda on the website or where to go, just Google Waxhaw Plan Commission agenda, and it brings you right to the exact page on the city website.

Okay, thank you very much.

And if if you don't remember all of that, you can call the planning department and help you out with that.

That's fair.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for your comments.

I just want to point out uh for all you that did come.

Thank you for your comments.

This isn't the very early process, so right.

He may not well know where he wants to go for for his funding at this time.

And I know there's no action needed as it's right.

This is just a discussion to feel out where he feels the plan commission is looking at his project.

Also to introduce it to the city, and that's why your notifications were given out to the neighborhood.

Um but this is early on, like we you heard the plan commission and staff has recommended that he has a neighborhood meeting before he gets too far down the road, and so that will happen before he comes back before this board.

I appreciate that.

And and I want to I I didn't want to derail um, but my question about the federal uh grant money is because I was present, it was probably about five years ago when the development at the end of Niagara Street when those workforce uh housing and the others across the street were discussed and voted upon.

And so I attended those meetings, and I know there was a lot of us from that community that came and spoke against that, and then it ended up passing anyway.

And I had spoken to one of the gentlemen on the committee after the fact who's no longer on this committee.

Um, and he said the reason it was passed is because there was federal money behind it and it was going to pass because there's money being put forth for it to be built.

And so I wanted to know if there was money behind this project from the federal government.

And since someone is asking to develop, we're just gonna pass it because something needs to go there, right?

So that was my question, and that was what's behind my question in full transparency.

Well, I appreciate that, but I also would suggest to you that that was that individual's opinion.

Oh, and I'm sure that's possible.

I'm sure that's true.

But that's why I wanted to bring it to the committee as well.

Thank you.

Uh thank you for your comments, all of them.

Thank you.

All right.

Is there anyone else that would like to address the commission?

Uh I would bring it back to the commission then.

And are there any final thoughts and input to the developer?

I think that uh Mr.

Cherry, we've given you as much as we can this evening, and you'll have you have an idea of what some of the concerns are, both from the public and from the commission.

So I think it's been a productive meeting in terms of having a consultation.

So thank you for that.

Next on our agenda this evening is uh the plumbing code update.

So uh Doug, I believe you're gonna take us through this review and possible action on our part.

Yes.

And um, this is a plumbing update to the plumbing code.

Essentially, it's gonna affect the main section of our building code, and which is chapter 16, and then chapter 19 is specific plumbing code changes.

Um as always with any code changes that come before you, this is be a recommendation on to the common council.

Um so these changes before you this evening are to ensure that the city has the proper authorization to review plans and spells out what the applicants must provide for review.

Um the city is a um approved reviewer and uh by the state to be able to review plans uh for development, and with that comes some uh sections of the state statute that require we have certain aspects of our code that uh assure that we're meeting all the state standards and also what's required of the applicants and what's required of the city in doing that review process.

Um so this is just sections that have been added to the code to clear up all that language.

Um this happened uh somewhat recently.

Um so the building inspection department has been working with the attorney's office closely and rewording of these sections of the code to make it happen.

Um so that's what's before you this evening.

Um so as I mentioned, we are a delegated uh agent municipality now under the administrative code.

Um, and so this uh section in chapter 19 basically um lays out what's required of the community um and and what will happen with the plan review process going through the city, and then uh more specifically with the plumbing code.

Um the plumbing code does allow for work by residents of a home or the owners of the home to be able to do work on their own plumbing, but the state code has certain limitations to what can be done, so we've added those limitations in to clearly define what can and cannot be done by the homeowner, and then the uh also in section 1917 of the plumbing permits uh dealing with the issuing of the permits.

Um they just cleared up some of their language on how the permits will be reviewed uh and issued by the city, then so those are the the three sections that will be changed, and at this time staff is recommending approval of these updates, and again, this will go on to the common council for full uh action.

Thank you, Doug.

Questions uh I was a little concerned when you started it on that one screen because I thought you were going to read them.

I can go back and do that.

Um I think I think you've covered it more than adequately.

So I would be happy to make a motion that we approve and recommend to the common council the updates shown to us to the building code and the plumbing code pertaining to the plan review and construction.

I'll second.

Thank you, Commissioner Wells seconds.

Seeing no need to have a discussion, all those in favor say aye.

Aye, opposed.

So that was a unanimous endorsement and recommendation, and then lastly on our agenda is surplus land, and so uh there is a review and possible action on a proposal to declare 1.986 acres parcel of city owned vacant land as surplus.

The parcel uh which is identified here is located in the village of Waukeshaw along Big Bend South Big Bend Road, south of Mill Creek, and is no longer needed by the Waukeshaw water utility.

Doug?

Sure.

Um so uh that pretty much sums it up as you recall uh meeting or two ago that we had brought in several water utility properties before you.

Um now they've determined they will not need this parcel as well.

This is located outside of the city limits here on the red line.

You can see where the city boundary is.

Um so this is on Big Bend Road, south of Lawnsdale Road.

Uh, here you can see where Mill Creek comes across.

And so the parcel in blue is the one that we're discussing.

It's just about two acres in size on vacant land.

Um, then the water utility will no longer have a need for that based on their uh recent hookup with the Great Lakes Water.

Um, so they've determined they don't need it.

We've sent out uh requests from any other departments to express any need for the property.

We've heard nothing back from any departments having a desire to keep the property.

Um so we're just asking that it be determined to be surplus at this time, and again, uh, like the ordinance changes will be a recommendation onto the common council.

Oh, here's a picture of the site if you want to see just empty field.

Okay, well, we have a we have a motion on the table, and um it it was intended to include all city department comments and concerns.

I assume that the second error agrees with that.

Any uh discussion?

I don't think we had one.

I'll make a motion to to recommend I thought I did.

Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Wells made a motion.

I'm gonna second it.

Is there any discussion?

Seeing none, we're ready to vote.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Okay, those opposed.

And it's probably good that the meeting is coming to an end since it's been um interesting, let's say.

So, welcome again to Megan and uh also to Thane.

Uh we understood everything you did in your presentation, so that's going well.

And uh if there's no further comment, is there anything from the community development department?

Maria?

No.

Okay.

Well, if that's the case, then if there is no objection, we are during that.