Councilor Renee Grout.

Catalytic converter theft is a huge problem in good evening, everyone.

It's December 1st, 2025.

The 43rd meeting of the 26th Council will come to order.

All counselors are present this evening.

We're going to start with a moment of silence, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance in English and in Spanish.

Civic Plaza parking passes are provided for members of the public.

You can obtain a parking pass from council staff at the table near the chamber's entrance.

Members of the public, city staff, and the media have the ability to view this meeting in person and on live streams through four different platforms: Gov TV on Comcast Channel 16, the Gov TV website, YouTube, and Zoom webinar.

The live streams can be accessed from most smartphones, tablets, or computers.

Also, this meeting is closed captioned, and you may enable the closed captioning to services on your television or device at this time.

The video recording of this and all past council meetings will remain available for viewing at any time on the city council's website.

Council staff is available via telephone if members of the public need assistance, finding the videos online.

Please call 505-768-310 for assistance during business hours Monday through Friday, 8 a.m.

to 5 p.m.

The council will take a break at approximately 7 p.m.

this evening if needed.

With regard to decorum in the chambers, we want tonight's proceeding to be as civil and respectful as possible.

Please do not make any personal attacks and please no applause, snapping, or other outbursts during the meeting.

Upon the second or continued disruption, that individual will be asked to leave the chambers and if necessary, security will escort that person out.

Such removal from the council chambers will be effective for the remainder of the meeting.

If continued disruptions occur, I may recess the meeting until order is restored, and if necessary, may clear the chambers of persons participating in the disturbance.

The meeting will go a lot smoother if we are respectful of one another.

Tonight we will start with proclamations and presentations.

We have no proclamations, but we will have a presentation from Miss Christine Berner, the city economist, who's going to provide an update on the gross receipts tax.

Good evening.

We'll just wait just for a sec for my slide to come up.

So just a brief update for you.

Uh this was September uh GRT that we have here in front of you.

Uh so GRT growth was for was solid for September, growing 4% over the previous year based on the state shared 1.225.

It's not quite fitting, is it?

Um cumulative growth is 5.9%, still well uh over the expected 3.8% for the year.

Uh retail this month was a little bit negative, but only slightly so.

Um and then the only other uh large sectors uh such as other services and food gross receipts, those were those were negative.

Um and then we don't have an arts and entertainment up here.

It's a pretty small share of overall GRT, but that one was negative this month as well.

Um moving to cannabis, if you wouldn't mind.

Sorry.

Whether you like to fit.

Cannabis actually was negative this month by 21%.

It appears that this time last year, um, it was a pretty strong month, and so you know, by comparison, this is low.

We'll just have to keep an eye on it.

And I do have it on my list to contact TRD just for an affirmative update that they're still working on compliance.

So I'll try to figure that out for you.

Um actually that is really all that I have.

I can stand for questions.

Councillors, any questions?

I don't see any.

Thank you so much, Miss Brenner.

Thanks.

Moving on to the journal.

I move approval of the November 17th journal.

There's this motion and a second by Madam Vice President.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

Communications and introductions.

I move that the rules be suspended for the purpose of placing OC56 on tonight's agenda for action.

OC56 is the Office of Inspector General's annual whistleblower report for fiscal year 2025.

There's a second by Counselor Rogers.

All those in favor of suspending the rules from the letter of introduction, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Anyone oppose that passes on a nine zero vote.

Counselors, are there any other changes to the letter of introduction?

Seeing none, I move approval of the letter of introduction.

There's a second by Madam Vice President.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Any opposed?

That passes unanimously.

Moving on to reports of committees.

Somehow I'm missing that page.

Oh, we don't have any?

Okay.

Thank you.

No reports of committees, no deferrals or withdrawals that I know of at this time.

Counselors any?

I do have a deferral.

Councilor Grout.

Thank you.

Madam President, I'd like to defer O25-99 to December 15th.

There's a motion to uh defer 02599 to December 15th.

Is there a second?

Second.

There's a second by Madam Vice President.

Any questions?

All those in favor of deferring O2599, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes unanimously.

Any other deferrals or withdrawals at this time?

All right.

Seeing none, we're moving on to the consent agenda.

Are there any changes to the consent agenda?

Councilor Backa.

Thank you, Madam President.

I'd like to remove EC25-538.

All right.

We will remove EC 538 from the consent agenda.

Council Champagne.

Madam President, uh item G, EC2535, please.

All right, we're gonna move EC535 from the consent agenda.

Any others to remove to the consent from the consent agenda.

Seeing none, I move approval of the consent agenda.

There's a second by Madam Vice President.

Counselors, all those in favor of the consent agenda, raise their hand and say yes.

Yes.

Any opposed?

That passes unanimously.

We're gonna move back to EC538.

Councilor Backa.

Thank you, Madam President.

Quick question.

I and I I apologize.

I don't remember this exactly.

But it's my recollection that we this was withdrawn at the last FGO meeting.

The administration withdrew this for whatever reason.

I don't remember.

And so I'm a little surprised that it's now on the consent agenda here.

Is that true?

No, sorry, Counselor, I'm having a hard time hearing you, so I'm trying to hear my apologies.

Uh the the last FGO meeting, it was my recollection that this bill was withdrawn by the administration for more work.

And so I'm a little surprised it's here, but I may I might be wrong.

I just needed to start with that.

Yes.

Sure.

Ms.

Kulano, Madam President, Councilor Backa, that item was EC522, and that is on the consent agenda for withdrawal.

Um the 5 uh 38 item is a different um that's a very different one.

It's a replacement for that item.

Oh, it's to correct there.

I believe there was an issue with the a typo of some sort in 522, and so 538 corrects that issue.

Okay.

So okay, so then just this process question.

If we withdrew it for a typo, but now we can just put it onto this one without having passed it previously or accepted it.

Madam President, Councilor Backa, the whole body has to approve of the withdrawal as a as its own individual step.

Um, and then I believe that the replacement bill was introduced um last at the last meeting, so it would have been a holdover.

So that's why they they're aligned.

Oh, I see.

I see.

Okay.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just have a couple questions for the administration because I think I was vocal about the fact that we moved the domestic violence commission under APD.

But this is to give funding to the domestic violence resource center for training programs.

So I just had a question of the can this one org handle training of all of the orgs for domestic violence across the whole city.

Um I've worked with this org and have some personal knowledge of their situation at that at that organization.

Just wondering how can one org handle all the training for the domestic violence resource center for all of the city?

Madam CAO.

Um, Madam President, Councilor Rogers, um, I believe.

I thought Commander Hernandez was here because they oversaw the RFP, so I wanted to make sure that someone that sat in that and discussed the the capabilities would be able to answer your question.

Can I get back?

I will get back to you about that in terms of if we feel like we need to supplement this for other training.

And I know that that has been the expectation is that we are gonna we would have citywide uh training available.

Yeah, thank you, madam chair.

My other question is just do we know?

I know we funded them last year for the same type of programming.

Do we get reports from them on what where the training who they trained, how many people they trained, um metrics on how they did with that funding?

Madam President, Councilor Rogers, yes, I believe we do have they do report to us as per the terms of exactly the numbers of people where and how often, and so we could provide that in summary for you all.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

And I and then you said this was an RFP.

Do you know do you know how many respondents we had to that RFP?

Um, Madam President, Councilor Rogers.

I said RFP, but I meant procurement because I'm not sure which procurement tool we used, but I know that they went through this um through APD.

So I shouldn't have said RFP, I should have said through the procurement process.

Okay, and Madam Chair, I see uh Hernandez here now.

Thank you.

Um I think people have both um chief of staff, um Hernandez and and uh Commander Bernard.

Yes, thank you Council President, Council Rogers.

Can you I was walking past, so can you please make sure I don't want to answer questions?

Sure.

So I just thought the first question I think I had was just around the RFP for this.

Was it an RFP or how did we arrive at this provider?

So with this providers, we put an RFP out because the contract had expired a year prior.

Um, from my understanding is that for this RSP, there's only one company or one organization that put in for this that was awarded for this.

Okay.

So only one respondent.

Only one respondent.

One respondent.

And so working with them last year, because I know we funded them last year, and I was very vocal about the commission being put under APD.

But do we have a sense of how I know they'll send this to me and you can send it to just what they did with the funding last year?

Just want to make sure that we they did what they said they were gonna do.

And um, Council President, Councilor Rogers, I'll let uh Commander Bernard who's in charge of the criminal investigations division answer that question.

Sure.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

So with the funding last year, um, there was training available, but a huge portion of the funding goes for the advocacy that they provide, so they're going out on all of our domestic violence calls.

So if we need a victim advocate, if the victim is requesting that, they're going to those.

They're providing services at the FA, the family advocacy center each day, Monday through Friday, where victims can go in there and they can get services or connected to services.

So a huge portion of the funding goes for the staffing of um the services they provide there.

Got it.

Thank you.

Um other question just about on your website, and sorry, this came up just because he pulled it off and it's relevant.

Last question, I promise.

Um, I was working with a with a survivor victim of domestic violence, um, and we could not find the packet that the domestic violence commission put together and brought to this body.

It's an amazing one packet where everything's there.

I could not find it anywhere on APD's website, the commission's website.

It needs to be easily accessible.

Um, I know you guys have paper packets that you give out for victims, but um, if we're trying to help folks or advocates are trying to help folks, it's really hard to find that packet on your website or on the city's website, period.

So I would love your help to fix that for folks who are looking for help.

Absolutely, we'll look into that right away.

And we also have um different translation services going into effect too, so we can make sure it's available to all members of our community.

Yeah, thank you.

And I know that I said that was the last question, but one more popped in our mind.

How do you how do you because I know that the commission is doing a ton of work around training and the things that they present to us, lethality trainings, all of those things?

How does how does that get translated to the D VRC?

Because they don't come to those meetings, they're not even on the commission.

So how does that information get passed on to the provider?

So for any of the meetings that we have, we have a close relationship with the DBRC.

So my deputy commander is actually on the um commission for DVSA, so she attends all of those meetings and she makes sure that she communicates those with the DBRC so they're aware of everything that we have going on and the recommendations that are being made that can be passed on to the committee.

Okay, thank you, Madam President.

Should I suggest can I suggest you just have them be a part of the commission?

Absolutely.

I I know that the commission has rules for whoever they there has to be a vote, and I don't know how many slots they have for that, but um that's definitely something that I would pass on and recommend to them.

Yeah, and all of our all of our boards and commission allow ad hoc members as needed for subject matter experts.

So I think that that would be smart, so that the training that they give is actually relevant to what our commission is saying we need in the community.

This is a hot topic this week, so I think this is a good thing that we're having this conversation.

Thank you.

Counselors, any other questions on EC538?

No.

Is there a motion?

Motion to approve.

There's a motion to approve EC538 and a second by Councilor Grout.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Any opposed?

That passes on a 9-0 vote.

Counselor Champagne, EC535.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um DC Hernandez.

I might need you down here for this one.

Uh Madam President, this is uh EC 535, and it's the quarterly report security report with APD, ACS, and Metro security data.

I just had a few questions of kind of just an explanation of what is the difference of the classes of calls.

We have the numbers that were reached and talked about how some things are going up and going down, but it says a class A APD call, a class B APD reactive call, and an A and a Class B APD proactive call.

Can you kind of go over which ones those are and what those mean?

I'm assuming you wanted him to answer that.

Madam President, Counselor Champagne, um uh director Keener might also be helpful from and ADQ right to be able to talk about the classification in the report as well.

There um, since they are um oftentimes in locksteps, I just wanted to let you know she is here as well.

Council president and counsel counselor champagne.

Um I can wait for the director, or do you want me to try to answer some of those right now?

If you know it it the reason why I asked you to do it is because the the analysis and the summary of it shows that it uh a lot of being pushed away from metro security and more toward APD and these classifications.

It even uh notes it in here that you're finding a lot more of APD calls, and it notes those three type of calls, so that's why I need on you more.

And counselor president and counselor champagne.

I think a lot of it has to do with um we have our transit security officers that's attached to APD that works closely along with the our problem response teams that work co-in hand.

So I think the quicker response that we get on the transit buses is through the transit officers as well as uh police services that are attached to the curr to the um TSOs with this transit safety officers.

So that's that's why you see kind of the a lot of the calls are coming to APD a lot more because we're writing on the buses and we're responding to more calls rather than a year ago when it was assigned to Metro Security.

So we kind of took over that.

So that's why a lot of it's coming to us.

It's shifting that, Madam President.

Then what is a class A call?

Uh Madam President and Councillor Champaign.

So when 02247 came out, it asked us to split these um categories into various calls that's similar to the um FBI uh uniform crime reporting, I believe.

So we basically just took like a look at that internally um as to how those are broken out, so you can actually see it on the website where it will talk about the specific calls and how they're categorized into class A, which are your more serious or class B calls.

Okay.

So a class A is a more serious call.

So when it says the calls are up in vandalism, aggravated assault and battery central sexual offense, uh, but narcotics is down, that's a higher priority call than the class B, which is a traffic without injury wanted persons.

But does does Metro Security answer to wanted people?

A wanted call?

Because it's listed on here.

A class B reactive call or slightly up, uh, which are traffic accidents without injuries, a wanted person and are significantly up in suspicion, suspicious persons, 911 hang-ups, disturbances and rescue calls.

So is that a priority two call when it comes to metro security or uh Madam President and Counselor Champagne?

If so I know that's the staff analysis that has that broken out like that, but if you go to the actual report, it will break it out by metro and APD calls.

So you can see the class A for Metro is uh assaults, batteries, fights, um fires, which battery fights and fires they didn't have any this quarter, narcotics and um actually they didn't have any vandalism calls this quarter either.

Okay, so they are not up vandalism calls are not up then, like this says.

Madam President and Councilor Champagne, um they are, but that is for APD responding.

So those are all categorized in the APD calls, the class A calls.

Again, there's two separate, so class A for both APD and then for Metro calls.

Okay.

Madam President, and then so a clas when it says Class B APD proactive calls are slightly up, and that's directing traffic on-site disturbances, those are metro security.

That's APD.

Yes, counselor.

Okay.

And Madam President, so then community activity and and periodic watches are up for the APD side of this.

Yes, and a lot of the periodic watches, counselor are self-initiated.

Um depending on our crime analysis of say, hey, you know what, we're seeing high traffic areas at certain times.

We do have periodic watches to be logged on, so they actually create a call for service.

So that's why you see those increases.

But it's more proactive policing.

Okay.

I seem to recall those, yeah.

Okay.

Um I'm not too sure, Madam President, who would be the best person, but can someone explain the difference between a solid waste interaction encampment notice and the existing encampment category?

Uh Madam President, Council Champagne, I believe those are both listed under Metro.

I don't really know what the breakdown is.

My assumption would be that one of them is when metro is responding in conjunction with solid waste for encampment clearing, whereas a strict encampment call would just be uh when metro is uh showing up to get encampment to move on that potentially doesn't need some cleanup involved with it.

But you don't know exactly what it is because it says that there's a new uh solid waste interaction encampment notice category, but we don't know exactly what the category is.

Madam President, Councilor Champagne, we we get several um new categories each time that we report out on these, just depending.

Oh, sorry.

Madam President.

I'm happy to answer this question.

Okay.

Um we have uh integrated metro security individuals in with our uh solid waste and HHH intercant uh interaction team work um to provide support in the field when they are uh providing notice within the community uh in an interaction.

So I think the designation of this new category is when a um metro security staff is with the interaction team and our which and our which is HHH staff and our solid waste team and they are just noting that as it's related to um anything that could be connected to transit as well.

So it's in this report.

Okay, Madam President, thank you.

That explains makes sense.

Perfect.

Um just a couple more kind of inquiries about this.

Uh why would and and I don't know, I know this has been going on for a while, but why did we move away from metro security to to more function with APD transit safety?

Uh Madam President, Counselor Champagne.

So this was all part of the long-range security study that we did with parametrics, and and that was one of the recommendations was to move towards APD.

And so that was how we created the development of the transit safety officers at that time.

Um, and so that is what we have been trying to do is move towards the transit safety officers with with APD, and it's been really beneficial for us, um, especially just because they have that direct connection with APD sworn officers.

So it helps us to get um a much swifter response when we we do need it.

Right.

So, Madam President, so this was a part of a long-term plan.

Madam President, Councilor Champagne, yeah, yes, it was.

Okay.

Um Madam President, was was the move um.

But we still have a security shimmel security is is 24-7 at the uh at the center, is that correct?

Is that because that's not going to be a part of Metro Security or APD?

So we have we how much we're paying security to be there.

Yeah, Madam President and Counselor Champaign.

So I think something to note was the last quarter from April to June, um, we had actually had to bring in the transit safety officers to uh cover the ATC.

Um so they were doing that, and at that time we lost a lot of mobile coverage, and so for this quarter, about mid-July, we ended up putting um the TSOs back out into the field mobile, and we brought in Schimmel to cover that gap that we had in coverage at the ATC, which has been really helpful for us.

The plan though eventually is to migrate those officers over to transit safety officers when when we're able to um increase our position count past uh where we currently have it.

Um I think one thing to note too is you know, we're referencing a lot of the prior quarter when we look at the changes in um the numbers that we have.

I think it does do us a lot of good to also look at the prior year's quarter because seasonal changes affect a lot of things too.

Um so I you know, I'd say that just to really say we've seen um kind of our monthly calls remain pretty flat over the the prior quarter last year.

Um, but we have seen our reactive calls drop 47%, while our proactive calls have gone up 20%.

Um so again, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we have made this shift to transit safety officers that are present and dedicated to transit safety.

So they're already out on the network, they're visible, um, and I think that helps to deter a lot of behavior.

Okay, madam president.

So having some sort of random patrol or patrolling officers instead of being a reactive for being dispatched to something that seems to be bringing the numbers down, or at least from what this report says is that they're slightly up, but they're able to react to them.

Uh Madam President and Councilor Champagne, yes, I think I think it's um it's very important in that we are seeing some some decreases when we look at the quarter over quarter and you know the same season from last year, we are actually seeing that the reactive um items are coming down.

And you'll even see it in this quarter when you look at from month to month, you'll see that those categories and the majority of the categories the numbers are coming down.

And having those reactive madam president, having those those officer, I mean, I don't I guess it is an officer, and officers present on those spots are helping to deter that stuff.

Um Madam President and Councilor Champagne, yes, I think I think it is very helpful.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um, how much does that, Madam President?

How much does this cut security cost?

Do we know what the contract is?

And um, Madam President and Counselor Champagne are are you referring to to the shimmel security for that for the ATC?

Is it an uh annual contract that we've signed or and how much is that?

Um right now we're going uh month to month, but um the annually it would be about 1.2 million dollars, which is why we would much rather um you know bring on transit safety officers, the cost would be would be much.

That's understandable.

10,000 100,000 a month, yeah.

Um Madam President, uh, I'm good.

That's perfect.

Thank you, ma'am.

Counselors, we are discussing EC535.

Any other questions?

Counselor Feeblecorn?

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, so I couldn't tell from the report when you go when you go on the bus um and you see APD riding the bus, how often does that happen?

I've never seen it, just as an aside.

Council President and Council Feeblecorn, um, they have assigned um times that they do throughout the day.

My understanding is that they're riding on the buses six hours throughout the day at different various routes.

Um the routes that we are riding on, they're either police services or transit officers.

Um they're writing and they're also doing bus checks, meaning that once the bus stops, they are actively contacting the drivers of that and doing a walkthrough of each of the bus.

So at times they're not might not be writing, but they are actually making their way through the bus and contacting the bus driver to make sure everything is fine at different locations of the bus route.

Thank you, Madam President.

So I have um gotten a couple of folks that are concerned about the number of times that they have seen multiple officers just hanging out at bus stops.

Um and I'm just wondering if we have extra APD officers.

Um first of all, I'm surprised to hear that.

And second, is that really the best use of their time, or would it be better if they were actually on more buses?

So, Councilor President and Councilor People Corn, um, a lot of times when there's officers at the bus stops, it might have to be response to an actual call for service that are taking place, but in particular, depending on this um, you know, the incident, I'm not aware of the actual incident where there's a lot.

Um, but majority of the officers are responding to calls for service that are requested by either our transit officers or our police service aides.

Thank you, Madam President.

I um I don't think that that's actually the case.

I've been to bus stops recently.

There have been two or three folks in in uniform just hanging out.

And I'm curious as to if you don't know that they're there hanging out, then why are they there hanging out?

Um they don't seem to be responding to anything.

Um again, if we have extra personnel that are available to do law enforcement, I just wonder if the best use of their time is standing at a bus stop for up to 30 minutes at a time.

Um but it doesn't sound like you know that that's happening.

So I'd love to follow up offline to figure out how I'm seeing it and no one else's.

Thank you.

Council Champagne?

Yes, just a quick follow-up question.

You said are metro security officers um armed?

Because I know PSAs are not.

Council President Um and Counselor Champagne, metro security is not.

Okay, so Madam President, so no armed officers, whether it's a PSA who's not in police officer or that the security is armed.

Yes, you're correct.

What is their madam president?

And what is their protocol for reacting to an incident?

Uh observing a report.

So unless a serious body harm is being inflicted, their observations are like a police service aid, which is observe in a report.

And that's why we're working so collectively with our problem response teams and our field services to respond to those incidents quickly.

But a lot of the situations they are able to utilize their de-escalation skills that they are taught during the academy and de-escalate, but a lot of times if it results to high priority or someone is in danger, they are or they're having officers respond to that because they're all on the same frequency in the same CAD system.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam President.

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I just had a question.

I'm getting a constituent calls and emails about National Guard on buses and on the platforms.

Are we utilizing the National Guard at all for transit?

So Council President, Councillor Rogers, we are doing the uh with the National Guard.

We're actually doing the checks that I just spoke about, where they are with a transit safety officer or a police service aid and actually walking at the bus stops, walking through off the bus.

They're not actually writing in the bus, but they are making the checks.

Thank you, Madam President.

Can we update the APD fact sheet about that I asked for about what the National Guard is doing?

Because we have not updated the community about any changes to what the National Guard was here to be doing.

So can we update the APD?

Um you guys put together a really nice.

I think Lauren Keene did it a really nice Laura uh did a nice little fact sheet about what they're doing, what they're wearing.

Can we add anything that maybe I didn't ask about or don't know that they're doing, but any updates to what the National Guard is doing, update that fact sheet so we can get that out to the community.

Yes, Councilman.

Thank you.

Counselors, is there a motion for EC535?

Madam President, I'll make a motion to accept.

There's a motion and a second by Councillor Grout.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on an eight-zero vote.

Moving on to is there any?

Oh, we've moved on from that.

And moving on to announcements.

Councilor Grout.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, the intergovernmental legislative relations committee meeting on Wednesday, December 3rd is cancelled.

Councilor Champagne.

Thank you, Madam President.

Finance and Government Operations Committee on Monday, December 8th.

Uh, we will be holding that meeting here in the Vincent E.

Griego Chambers at 5 p.m.

basement level.

Uh, and it will be a hybrid meeting.

Councilor February.

President Mason, the land use planning and zoning committee meeting on Wednesday, December 10th at 5 p.m.

is canceled.

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

There will be a local government coordinating commission special meeting on Thursday, December 11th at 5 a.m.

5 p.m.

in the Bernalillo County building, Ken Sanchez Commission Chambers.

It's also a hybrid meeting.

Thank you.

Under financial instruments, 099 was deferred, so we have no others.

We are moving on.

We have no appeals tonight, which puts us at general public comments.

Members of the public can provide live public comments to the council in person or virtually if they have signed up for public comment for the instructions published on the agenda and on our website Friday.

There is a two-minute time limit, and a bell will ring to indicate your time is up.

Each participant has two minutes to present.

Comments are to be addressed to the counselors only through the council president.

And any disruptive conduct will result in removal from the meeting.

Mr.

Cornelius, will you please call the name of the first speaker?

And if you are on deck, please start moving your way to the front.

Thank you, Madam President.

Our first speaker is David Cordova, followed by Shannon Molina.

Good evening, esteemed council members.

My name is Shannon Cordova.

I'm coming to you on behalf of my husband David Cordova.

I'm his wife and power of attorney.

He is a whistleblower for um for Burnham Yo County.

It is with great regret and urgency that we must bring this to your attention.

The mistakes happening on your watch.

On January 7th, 2021, a serious incident occurred at Brandley Oak County Juvenile Detention Center, resulting in a riot that has profoundly changed my husband's life.

At the time, he was employed as a youth program officer to focusing on intake and master control.

Due to staffing shortages on that day, he was reassigned from his specialized role to serve as a floater.

He was called to the F unit to allow an inmate some time outside of a cell.

As other immates returned to the pod, chaos erupted, leading to a riot.

Video footage, evidence that is being withheld from us from the incident reveals an officer stepping to the side, which allowed an inmate to attack my husband, leaving him unconscious.

Following the assault assault, he did not receive immediate medical attention despite having two medical personnels on site.

He was eventually taken to the emergency room where he was left alone and no call was made to me.

However, only during settlement negotiations that we discovered troubling alterations made to his medical diagnosis.

It appears that Posonia Law collaborated with opposing counsel Lynn Phyllis for the county.

Len Phillips and associates with the county to downplay the severity of his condition.

They relied on a non-MD to modify the diagnosis given by a professional medical doctor who had confirmed that he had sustained a traumatic brain injury along with other symptoms.

Since then, we have uncovered substantial misconduct, notably on no incident report was filed.

Madam President.

Yes, I am.

May the speaker be allowed to continue, please.

Yes.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry to interrupt, ma'am.

The inmate who attacked my husband should have been placed in intake as he had been sentenced the same day according to policy and procedure.

Moreover, attempted manslaughter charges were never pursued despite the fact that my husband's state could have resulted in death.

We decided to blow the whistle on these issues and approach the district attorney with our concerns.

Unfortunately, this was all resulted in retaliation of my husband's employment with Bernal County was terminated the same day as the DA.

The actions of various individuals within the Brennleo County Detention Center, Bernalio County, and the associated legal counsel have been deeply concerning.

We have documented 11 videos and also over 400 emails that compile a list of illegal actions on Instagram page simply medals with two S's, which outlines some of the wrongdoing and provide evidence.

There you will find information about the misconduct, not only the risk management, but also their conspiracy to tamper with evidence during an official police investigation.

We urge you to conduct a through a thorough investigation into this matter before taxpayers are burdened with some potential hefty consequences of these events.

Legal papers have been filed, and you may, and I have my number for you guys to reach me out.

Thank you.

I don't know if I can get this too.

You can go ahead and give it to the clerk.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Up next, I think we have Mason Graham, followed by Cesar Marquez.

Thank you, Madam President, members of the council.

My name is Mason Graham, the policy director for Common Cause New Mexico.

Here to talk about uh today's first day for old early voting in the runoff election, which is taking place next week.

Five members of this council have personally participated in a runoff election, but three of those members voted against the ordinance that would transition Albuquerque elections to a right choice voting system.

Solution that would eliminate this costly and confusing second election.

In addition, one of the clearest problems with the current system is that runoffs create the perfect conditions for negative campaigning and divisive politics.

Candidates are often default to tearing down their opponents.

These tactics do not strengthen democracy.

They wrote it.

They feel voters vote, they fuel voter cynicism, increase distrust in government, and ultimately drive people away from the ballot box altogether.

And this type of dirty politics has been on full display throughout the regular and this runoff election cycle.

So I think we can all agree that city leaders are more effective when they hold the respect and confidence of the constituents, whether those constituents voted for them or not.

So the bottom line is simple.

Ranked choice voting gives our voters true freedom of choice, strengthens representative democracy, and breaks this negative cycle of zero sum campaigning.

It ensures winners have broad support without forcing voters, candidates, or taxpayers through another election.

RCV is not a partisan issue, and I know you've heard us talk about this a lot lately, but it's a good government solution, and it's time for Albuquerque to adopt it.

Thank you.

And I'm gonna need a second to set up their promise.

Can you see it?

Okay, how does it look?

I need to uh better.

You all see perfect.

Okay, thank you.

Um hi everybody, my name is Cesar Marquez.

I am a senior organizer with Common Cost New Mexico, and today I would like to take just a couple of minutes to explain how rank choice voting works by doing a simple uh demonstration.

So let's say that we have an election, we're trying to pick our favorite color, our candidates are red, blue, green, yellow, and orange, right?

And in order to uh represent our vote, we're gonna rank them in order of preference from one to five.

And so I will demonstrate that now.

So let's say that red is my favorite color.

So I'm gonna put red on top, followed by green, yellow, blue, and lastly, orange.

As you can see, uh, this is one vote.

Here we have other pre-assembled votes.

In this election, there's a total of 11 votes total, meaning that in order to win with the majority, you have to read feature 50% plus one, uh, which in this case we do not have.

So I'm gonna put my vote here.

Now, instead of having another expensive run-of-like we are right now, we're gonna spend 1.6 million dollars.

We can save that money by applying an instant run-of, which Las Cruzes and CFA already have.

So in this case, uh, we asked the question did somebody reach a majority of 50% plus one?

The answer is no.

So what we do now is we eliminate the last place.

So in this case it's orange, we distribute the vote, and then we ask ourselves the same question.

Did anybody reach a majority of 50% plus one?

The answer is no.

So we continue the uh runoff elimination process.

We eliminate green, we once again distribute the votes.

We see that nobody has reached a majority yet, and so we continue the process.

We eliminate yellow in this case, would distribute the votes, and we see that red has reached a majority with six votes.

This is how instant run-ups work very easily.

If I can explain it in less than two minutes, then I think voters of New Mexico, Albuquerque, can understand how this concept works.

And if you have any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them for you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Justin.

Justin Rogers, followed by a Francesco Artist.

Francesco Artist, followed by Lisa Christofferson.

When you are in the business of making and enforcing the laws, you don't get to break the laws to cover up the laws were broken.

Complicit, otherwise known as accomplice collusion and conspiracy of being involved in or aware of something wrong, immoral, unethical, or illegal.

I have provided each of you with additional information.

Plus, I have a packet here for the 10 Keller administration.

Similar to the ones that you have, so they can't lie again about not having documents in hand while having the documents in hand by fraudulently claiming of not being on notice of the matter of Mayor Keller's illegal law.

While the color administration maliciously stating into the record, they have no idea what I'm talking about, and that I can never prove that the color admin and I ever had any contact on this matter.

Lucky for me, all these council meetings are recorded and archived, showing us having all kinds of contact on the matter of Mayor Keller's illegal law.

Silence while turning a blind eye makes you just as guilty as the bad guy.

Lisa Christopherson, followed by Janet Sayers.

Justin is here now.

Hi, my name is just called right before.

Can I jump in?

Justin.

Is that all right?

Justin Rogers, followed by Lisa Christofferson.

All right.

Good evening, President and Council.

My name is Justin Rogers.

I've just moved to District 2 from a different district.

So hello, Councillor Baca.

So there is my counselor.

I would just want to speak real briefly in support of ranked choice voting, which I hope you will consider in the in the upcoming session.

I'm sure you've you've been hearing all the support people, so I don't need to repeat how much money the runoff election costs or the way the ranked choice has reflected voters' preferences and happiness and many other elections.

And bring up some numbers from previous elections, which is that actually many of you on the council were elected with fewer votes in the runoff than you had in the general election.

For example, um President Bassan, you earned 5,116 votes in the general election, and then only 4,186 in the runoff.

Councillor Rogers, you earned 2,974 in the general election, despite there being four or five candidates, and then only 2416 in the runoff.

So I don't know why we're elected people with fewer votes the second time.

That wasn't enough to elect them the first time.

Some of my friends here and I didn't really want to be here today, but we we took a little vote, and you know, four people said they would go to council, three people said let's go to Dion's, three people said let's go to Sadies.

So council one with a with a uh minor plurality.

So um I would urge you to um consider the RCV that will better reflect our preferences next year.

Thank you.

Lisa Christopherson, followed by Janet Sayers.

Hi, uh President Bassan, uh city councilors.

I rise to make public statement today to express uh public appreciation.

It is uh the Thanksgiving uh weekend um or that time of season uh for two public entities and two private entities.

So in that spirit in the season of gratitude, I want to thank uh the Southwestern Albuquerque uh firefighters for once again saving my life last week.

Thank you so much for the CPR.

Thank you for your compassion and professionalism.

I also want to thank, and I'll just use it as an example to the Albuquerque Police Department, um, which doesn't happen very often.

So while I was at the hospital with uh family and friend, uh my mother went to Walgreens uh for some medicine, left my leaving my father at home alone for just a short enough time.

He escaped from our house uh in his little chonis and made it across the street.

I want to thank um the police officers uh who responded and uh kept both my father and my mother safe.

My father presently at this time is in the uh hospital.

I'm gonna leave here and go over there.

But I want to thank all the healthcare professionals at the Loveless Hospital downtown and at the Heart Hospital.

They are amazing.

Uh their professionalism and the empathy and the care and the concern that they demonstrated were exceptional.

And I really mean, and I've been in and out of hospitals a lot.

My family are all hospital uh type people.

I'm the only teacher actually in my old family, and I'm telling you, it was an exceptional time uh that we were there.

The very kind, very caring, very concerned.

Um so those are all the thank yous.

I'm in need of a victim's packet.

Um I know that you had asked for that Albuquerque DVSAC did the packet.

The whole purpose was to keep them together so they could be found in one place, so you didn't have to go to the court, you didn't have to go to all these different agencies that were supposed to have it all together in one.

The language translation uh is all there.

So uh I'm in need of a packet if somebody has one Janet Sayers, followed by Anami Das.

Um good evening, Madam President, members of the council, and I'm Janet Sayers once again, still a resident of uh district nine, but grew up in district seven.

So um well, I was going to thank Councillor Sanchez for his four years of service, but he's somewhere.

Anyway, thank you for your four years of service and uh may the future hold good things for you.

Uh quick report on our um uh uh the library advisory board working with uh members of the legislature.

We got a uh good response from Representative Eleanor Sanchez, who has a very unusually shaped district, kind of the west side, northwest, and southwest, and she's interested in giving a hundred thousand dollars in capital outlay.

So I'm very pleased about that.

Uh had a nice conversation with the uh DLA for represent uh Senator uh Maestis who also um indicated uh interest in our project, and then just before I came today, I got a call from the office of uh representative uh Nicole uh Chavez who uh it looks like she's going to help support and she represents a very far part of the Northeast, and so that's uh that's that part.

Okay, I am a card-carrying uh senior adult, and I'm too busy volunteering to use uh the services of senior fairs.

But this this was in my my uh newspaper, I believe this morning.

A very nice um well, a very a very nice brochure.

However, I'm I'm just curious.

I'm gonna find out if the city paid for this or if the newspaper donated it, because the the library doesn't have any money to print materials other than flyers.

And this is paid for by our uh gold.

This is paid for by our uh library um foundation, and then just in closing, um the Amasca snowman will be up tomorrow, and UNM Lobo Football had a winning season.

So life is good in the 505.

Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Ayers.

Stay there real quick, please.

Miss Sayers, stay there.

Counselor Madam President.

Thank you, Ms.

Ayers, for your advocac advocacy for our libraries.

I think it's very important.

From the moment children are born, um, they can be interested in in reading and all that it has to offer.

Couple of questions.

Um, do you know the hours for the library?

Um I got an email from somebody that the library at Lomus and Tramway was closed on Sundays.

Is that normal?

Was closed on Sunday?

Yes, there's only five branches that are open on on Sunday, and that is not one of them.

Not one of them.

Okay, don't go anywhere.

Um, Madam CAO, can I ask um why we don't have more libraries open?

I think that's one service that's very important to our children and families.

Um they're doing homework on Sunday afternoon and evening, and um a library would be a good resource for them to do their homework.

Can you explain that?

And then I want to follow up about the advertising.

Madam President, Councillor Grout, um, I don't know that our um library uh director of uh arts and culture is here, but um I'm we manage the hours of the libraries based upon available staffing available out uh staffing hours, and I think they we also manage it based upon demand and and times at which they have the highest volume of participation from the community and use of the libraries.

So it is uh managing within uh the available citywide budget, um, and it it isn't an excuse, it's a managing the budget to ensure that we are able to provide all of the services across uh the city where the highest demand is.

Thank you.

Um thank you for that explanation.

I I I have some homework for you.

I want you to um see if you could go back into the history, the city's history and see what over the last 10, 15 years the services are, you know, when the um libraries have been opened.

I'd like to see maybe a graph.

I bet you guys could um your your um advisory board is very active.

Could you maybe look into that and get some?

I'm very curious because I think that um reading and education all go hand in hand, and um, we need to not um we need to do better, do more for that.

And I understand budgeting and so forth, but this is something that I think is our quality of life and our children's quality of life is very important.

Next question.

Did um Madam CAO did do you know if this if the city paid for that advertisement?

Um Madam Chair, Councillor Grout.

I'll have to check into that.

I do not know the specific um arrangement with the Albuquerque Journal.

Okay, um, and one follow-up, Madam President.

Are your uh directors are they upstairs and available for these on the spur of the moment questions?

Uh Madam President, Councillor Grout.

I don't know.

I uh don't know where every single director is right now for that, but we will look into it and happy to provide the answer.

Okay.

Each of our departments have their own budgets related to printing for distribution of information.

This is probably a decision that was how do we get this uh printed in the least costly way because uh newspaper print is a very low cost material for printing of that uh brochure.

In the past, we have printed them through other types of materials for the specific community that likes to receive that in print.

It's been important to them to have that catalog.

I I do agree.

I think the seniors we we all and I'm I'm a senior now too.

And so I'm a visual person and I like to see the paper, so I do understand that.

Thank you, Ms.

Sears.

Thank you.

And thank you.

And if I'm not here on the um December, whichever meeting that will be, I just wish everyone and their families a very uh Merry Christmas and whatever way that you celebrate the holidays.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Mr.

Cornelius.

Thank you, Madam President.

Anami Das, followed by Jackie Davis.

Hi, all uh Madam President, counselors.

Um I wanted to comment on the uh recent decision that the administration made to use the tragedy that was a homicide uh in the southeast area of the city to advance legal action against Quirky Books, which is an independent bookstore, one of the few remaining in the country and in the world.

Um I have a really bad habit of looking at government data and reading government policies and calling it a hobby.

It's it's it's terrible for mental health, but uh it has made it so that I can recognize like I don't know, when people lose the plot a little bit, and I think this is an example of someone losing the plot or uh someone's goal being the only thing in mind and the tragedy uh involves where a young man died uh wasn't adequately considered.

Um, also uh looking at the homicide data, um, you could see that there have been two outside Walgreens, we're not suing Walgreens.

Um there has been one outside Whole Foods, and we would never sue Whole Foods.

Um what was it?

Of the 59 or 60 homicides, 44 were firearms.

Uh no one was camped to death.

Um, focus on the real problems and not uh petty legal issues from years long cases.

Thank you.

Jackie Davis, followed by Michelle Guidelines.

Good evening, Madam President and Counselors.

I want to start by echoing my fellow speakers in support of ring choice voting.

I voted in the runoff this morning.

I wish I didn't have to return during final season to do that.

Um I also wanted to say thank you for passing 098 to protect vulnerable road users.

I'm happy to see that this is now law.

I've previously been before the council to advocate for safer crossings where there were none.

The issue I want to address today is how we can make existing crossings safer.

Currently, at traffic lights with high pedestrian traffic near the university, you're allowed to turn right on red.

When we're turning right on red, we may be looking to our left for a gap in oncoming traffic.

We may not notice right away that the walk signal is on or that there are people in the crosswalk.

Where there are multiple lanes, often the car in the left lane blocks our view of vulnerable road users coming from both sides.

This is especially true as the city is adding leading pedestrian intervals to intersections in an effort to further protect these vulnerable road users.

I travel through UNM's main campus on a daily basis, and I've personally seen quite a few close calls where a driver was not aware of people in the crosswalk because they were attempting to turn right on a red light.

This is a particular issue at Yale and Cornell intersections on Central, but I strongly suspect it is not limited to just these two.

I am humbly asking that we prohibit right turns on red at least during peak hours at these high pedestrian traffic intersections adjacent to the university, and that we take a deep look at what other steps can be taken to make existing crossings safer so everyone can make it home to their families.

Thank you.

Michelle Guidellis, followed by let's opvo evening, Madam President and Council members.

My name's Michelle Gaydellas, and uh thank you for this opportunity to speak.

First, I wanted to thank you for passing the updates to our traffic codes.

It shows real effort to reduce the traffic injuries and fatalities that plague our city and state.

Um tonight I I'm here to urge you to continue this momentum by prioritizing safe streets through comprehensive and achievable action.

Vision Zero works when we layer multiple strategies.

We need quick wins paired with long-term planning that treats transportation as connected, not siloed.

Here are some ideas.

Um enhance public transit to and from the sun port, extend service hours to 10 p.m.

on bus routes and midnight along the art corridor, um prioritize protected and connected bike lanes and launch a bike share program.

Extend art to the west side and begin planning additional rapid transit and light rail options.

Um street design, get rid of slip lanes, um, implement no turn on red citywide, and continue to deploy the red light cameras, uh, speed cameras, radar signs across the city, and require strict data governance to ensure safety tools like that don't become surveillance tools.

Um here's the critical part.

Zoning is transportation policy.

Um, and I almost forgot, and of course, don't uh you continue to design and rebuild roads that physically slow traffic to the speed that you actually want.

So, anyway, zoning is transportation policy.

Transit oriented development fundamentally reduces dangerous car trips and allows people to serve to live car-free and car light.

Increasing density through zoning changes also means less parking is needed.

Fewer parking lots reduces stormwater runoff and creates green space instead of asphalt heat islands.

Safe streets and smart zoning create neighborhoods where people thrive.

When we invest in housing near transit, extend service to evenings and weekends and slow traffic.

We tell Albuquerque your life matters, your safety matters, and your access matters.

I urge you to adopt these policies, make Albuquerque a city where getting around safely as possible for everyone.

Thanks.

Let's Adva followed by Brick Jonasy.

Overhead, please.

Madam President, Council members.

As we all well know, it's been said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

So a small video will be worth a thousands of words.

This incident occurred at 625 Lotus Avenue, a place that children go to.

It involves the Lotus Security System people that are, I assume, contracted by the private building there to perform security for the public entities housed within.

Where the police seem to think that they were more concerned about trespassing individuals exercising their constitutionally guaranteed right to film in public than to take the report given to them about the incident and the salt that occurred.

Don't delete Dutch.

That's a public record.

I'm not touching you.

Do not touch me.

Have no right to kill you.

I'm not sure.

I'm not touching you.

Not your voice.

They're not in uniform.

There's no identification on these people.

There's no badge.

That could be an armed gang of thugs.

I could be there reporting a sexual crime.

I might be uh turned away.

They assaulted us.

If they can violate my rights, someone that knows their rights.

Imagine what they do to somebody that doesn't know their rights.

This is a lab sexual order.

I'm in my face.

It's not a private area.

That's a state.

Very well.

What does it say?

This guy's in training on the bottom left.

Being trained by a supposedly seasoned officer to transport to trans uh trespass people from a public area.

Brick Jonasi, followed by Miguel Alvarez.

So I'm sure you guys don't want to see the picture, but it's too bad.

Because uh this is public comment.

This guy right here.

I don't know who he is.

Uh I don't know if he's security, maintenance.

Who is Lotus?

Lotus apparently is security or maintenance or something to do with 625 silver.

That's the family advocacy center.

It's interesting.

You were talking about some kind of award for the DVRC or something like that earlier.

Um, you know, I don't keep up with every detail of every portion of the city.

I I thank you guys for that.

But this part right here, this is my job.

This is my job to find the corruption.

This individual right here grabbing his nuts in front of children, trying to trespass us from a public access.

I mean, we're we're always working on stories in all public access.

I mean, I know you guys know it by now.

Maybe he didn't.

Sidillo did.

Sedilla, we've had interaction with him before at the public defender's office, which happens to be located at a bank.

A private building, but public access nonetheless.

The thing is, we cannot be trespassed for exercising our constitutionally protected activities in a public access where there are no restrictions.

Yet these individuals seem to believe not only that they can do this, but that they can grab their nuts with him at least.

I don't know about the other two, they didn't have any problem with it.

The officers that we reported it to didn't have any problem with it.

In fact, there was an officer standing right there when he did it the second time.

I mean, it's up to you guys whether you want to let this go on.

Um Department of Children, family, youth and families is in there.

Uh, developmental disabilities is in there, immigration law offices in there.

Uh, there's actually a lot of affiliated offices through that very building.

Me walking in with the camera shouldn't be an issue.

If there are restricted access areas, one, it should be posted.

Number two, is that it is your responsibility, it is their responsibility to ensure for the public that they are indeed locked.

So that someone like me who's pressed doesn't just walk in.

Lock up the restricted access areas and get rid of this guy grabbing his nuts in front of the children.

Thank you, Mr.

Jonesy.

Miguel Alvarez, followed by Peter Martin.

I'd like to find out a few things which have been going on in the last couple of years.

Uh Keller and the chief of police a couple of years ago, uh, there was a shooting up in the mountains where two police officers shot this uh poor guy that had a mental capacity.

And uh when they went to court, one of the prosecutors said that because the family got $30,000, they were gonna set these two cops free.

The thing is that $30,000 the family got was only enough to bury the poor guy and pay whatever medical bills uh he had left.

Now I found out that those two police officers were hired by the city to train the police officers at the uh school, and I don't think that that's a fair uh judgment for the family and the people that knew the guy.

Uh this is something that shouldn't have never happened, but I found out that it's a fact.

Another thing that's fact also, 13 years ago, uh when Barry was the mayor, there was a hundred over a hundred thousand dollars that the federal government gave to Barry and some of the city consulars to help the store owners that were on central having a bad time.

And instead of the uh city of Albuquerque or the city consulars at that time uh giving them the money the way the federal government had it down on paper, went and told them we'll give you two thousand dollars if you pay it back at 18%.

These people weren't selling any of their products, they didn't have any money except for what they had in the bank to survive, and that's and that money disappeared.

Nobody knows where it's at, and then another hundred thousand dollars that the federal government gave the city for the uh uh homeless, only four people got nine hundred uh dollars out of it, and that money disappeared.

Nobody knows where it went, it didn't go back to the federal government.

So, where is that all that alvarez?

The city of Albuquerque should have gotten.

Your time is up, sir.

Thank you for speaking.

Peter Martin, followed by Adale Rose Bennett Herrick.

Madam President and members of the council, thank you for the time this evening.

My name is Peter Martin.

Um, a little background on myself.

I'm originally from Las Cruces, New Mexico, and I moved up here about a year and a half ago uh because I got a job on Congressman Gabe Vasquez's electoral campaign in 2024.

Uh before that, I'd work on a number of state house, state senate, and municipal, as well as issue campaigns in Las Cruces.

So I come at this issue of how we vote with a bit of a unique perspective.

I guess I didn't mention I'm here to speak in support of ranked choice voting, if you didn't put that together.

Um electoral politics is my bread and butter.

And I just want to say I have no worse nightmare than working a runoff election.

Um speaking for myself, after breaking my back for five, six months trying to get somebody I believe in elected, there's just no bigger middle finger I could receive than being asked to run a runoff election.

Um here's the real deal.

I know some of the people who work on your campaigns.

I would call some of them friends.

I'm not going to name names or anything, but I will say that what they don't want to tell you personally is that they want ranked choice voting as well.

Um, I don't work for any of you, so I'm happy to say that with my chest right here, right now.

Um but I'll just say it means less fundraising has to happen, fewer doors have to be knocked, and everybody gets to enjoy their Thanksgiving.

Ranked choice voting is just good for everyone, man.

You should support it.

Thank you very much, and I hope you have a good evening.

Adale Rose Bennett Herrick, followed by James Freeman.

Ranked choice voting, please.

Um ranked choice voting rocks.

And it's simple, and again, you all have done it.

Thank you so much.

Um I am uh led to understand that um there is an exception to our uh no secret police rule.

Um, and that exception is uh um narcotics officers.

Um they uh wear uh masks like this.

Theirs were black.

Um and they freaked me out.

So I think that if they're doing if they're doing stuff that's so uh um you know scary and they need to uh hide themselves like that, then I would appreciate it if they weren't doing you know sweeps and busts and jump ins at uh the rocket noonday when I'm trying to get some breakfast.

Um I don't know how I'm gonna go over time with this one.

Um it seriously, I really want to echo um you know just how much uh how much the runoff um can really put a damper on the holiday spirits.

It's uh it's a shame uh that it is the way that that is.

Um and it's also very interesting.

Um Cesar uh did a great presentation.

Um really just want to echo um what my friends have said.

So thank you.

James Freeman, followed by Teresa Garcia.

Thank you, Garrett.

Good evening, y'all.

I am still James Freeman from District 4.

First, I wanted to talk tonight about an event that's happening on December 17th.

We call this the The March and the Vigil, um, where we read off the names of people that have died in the past 12 months who experience homelessness or people that supported people that experience homelessness.

So this event will happen December 17th at 1 p.m.

We'll start at health care, Albuquerque Healthcare for the homeless at the Vigil Wall, and then we will march and carry signs and uh over to Civic Plaza.

We've the city has been gracious and allowed us to read the names at Civic Plaza.

I believe there'll be food provided by Triple H.

Uh last year, two out of nine of y'all showed up to this event and the mayor.

I would really like to see a little more than two out of nine, but I won't hold my breath.

But thank thank you again for the opportunity.

Also, I wanted to talk about a show that's on Pluribus.

This is a show from the same creative team that brought us breaking bad and uh Better Call Saul.

And it's very Albuquerque-centric as you can imagine.

Has anyone seen the show maybe?

In the fourth episode, the mayor actually does a cameo and he plays himself, the mayor of Albuquerque, and it kind of blew my mind during a campaign season that he was able.

The main character, these aren't my words, I'm quoting.

The main character walks up to him and says, Hi, do I know you?

And he says, Hi.

And she says, Holy fuck, you're the mayor.

And he goes, thank you for your vote.

During the election time, I think that's kind of odd.

More people have seen this show than saw Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul combined.

It's one of the biggest shows in the world right now.

And the mayor did that during the election.

I think we already have sweatshirt gate about people buying sweatshirts for homeless people that say I love teller, but nobody's talking about how much of a campaign video he made out of this out of this show.

Did he pay for to be on that show as a campaign?

Did the city pay for him to be on that show?

Was he paid to be to do that?

I think these things, these are valid questions during a campaign.

Thank you.

Teresa Garcia, followed by Tad Muminski.

Good evening, Council President and Counselors.

My name is Theresa Garcia, and I'm speaking to you today as a community member in my personal capacity and as a survivor.

I'm here because this issue is not theoretical for me.

It is deeply personal.

As a survivor who has directly experienced harm caused by gaps in training and understanding with APD, I know how critical it is that our systems respond with empathy, cultural competence, and trauma-informed practice.

I, like many others, have been re-victimized by the very system that was supposed to protect me, including the very public victimization that me and my children have recently endured.

We can and we must do better.

Across our city, these ac there are experts, providers, culturally specific, leaders, legal partners, advocates, and lived experienced votes, uh voices who have been working together to close gaps, strengthen coordination, and improve safety responses.

These leaders have been ready and willing to support development, delivery, and updating the training for APD and first responders and statewide requirements.

According to the executive communication EC2552, the agreement you voted on has one single provider contract to create domestic violence training for APD.

DVRC is a local program, and this is not about discrediting their work or the incredible advocates who serve survivors every day, which I had the honor to train while serving as a director of training and communications for the New Mexico Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

That can the concern is that a single provider model for APD cannot meet the needs of a complex citywide crisis.

Survivors deserve a coordinated collaborative response informed by multiple perspectives and culturally responsive experts.

Therefore, I respectfully ask the council to support a collaborative model for training that includes multiple providers and voices across the field, not a siloed structure, transparency and accountability for training and development and implementation and regular and transparent reporting so that the community can understand and outcomes and ensure survivor-centered improvement.

As someone who has lived this, I know the difference of that training can make and it can save lives, or it can fail them.

Survivors should never be harmed by the system responses rooted in misunderstanding stigma or lack of proper training.

60% of survivors are falsely arrested.

I am one of them.

And 40% of survivors, um, 40% of cases come out of the Southwest Mesa.

Training is critical, and it must be collaborative where it benefits everyone, and all programs have the same opportunity for funding and for the effort in training.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

My name is Ted Nemeiski.

Well, what's going on in Albuquerque government?

First, ATD went 2014.

Went through Federal.

Then ATDD WPS.

Now City Attorney General being so.

What you've been doing.

Well, that's exactly what I never thought.

That's I end up.

That's it gonna be Fed criminal case.

Yes.

That's gets me something to think.

Can it be not only syllable, also criminal?

Because City Council, what's they doing?

That is violating.

Well that's exactly about a good I never thought that's I end up would that it's gonna be Fed criminal case yes that's get me something to think can it be not only syllable also criminal because city council what they doing that is violated open meeting acting city thrust etc etc what kind experts do we have three coming mining and study my son graduated from a mining school found a job had to go to all over the four different state that's it city of Abicorky picture thank you Nicole Finch on Zoom I appear to be fuzzy I'm not sure how to fix that there we go Madam President Counselors I'm Nicole Finch I'm a member of the library advisory board um I do not have an answer to the exact question that councillor Grout asked earlier tonight I don't know the answer about how library hours have changed over the past decade I do have my notes from the last library advisory board meeting and um I have some some interesting notes here Albuquerque the Albuquerque Bernaleo County Library has 19 branches that includes the 16 branches in the city and the three outside of the city in the county that is the same number of branches as Baltimore County Maryland they also have 19 library branches the difference is that Baltimore County has about 500 library employees for those branches and we have about 162 employees for those branches so when you hear that the library hours are based on the staffing that's a huge part of it and I just wanted to share that difference with with another municipality that's similar to us in that way um in addition to that I I wanted to point out that I have been using the library to help me research topics of interest to the city council um and I saw that for the next meeting that there's going to be a rental practices ordinance on the agenda and so I wanted to learn about that and so I checked out a book from the library called There is no place for us working and homeless in America by Brian Goldstone and it gave me a lot of good information that helped inform me about those rental practices ordinances and um the how that can help renters in Albuquerque so I just want to I want to thank the library for providing us with such excellent resources and I'm really glad to hear that we're still making progress on getting capital outlay funds and set aside funds for that HAC the main library branch thank you Madam President I cannot find Isaac Gonzalez in Zoom so that does conclude general public comment thank you thank you general public comment is complete we're on to approvals this evening we're going to start with OC 47 the Office of Inspector General's annual annual report for fiscal year 2025 I move a receipt be noted there's a second by Madam Vice President counselors uh counselor Lewis thank you Madam President is the acting inspector general here on Zoom okay this we're on the inspector general's report so Mr.

Pacheco is here he's the interim inspector general gotcha good evening Madam President Council thank you Mr.

So it in your report and thank you and um no you're you're filling an important position um so uh it it covers 427 complaints uh that were received by you all in 2025 um you know I realize that you you um I mean you can't investigate every one of those obviously but you do uh uh review and look at all those and make decisions on what to investigate and then uh there are 16 reports that were issued uh in 2025 and by that um uh I assume that means that they go through the entire process and they're they're reported out of the AGO committee is that correct these 16 that you mentioned in the report yes that is correct they were for the AGO committee and they would review them and either approval them or disapprove them right so and out of the and just because I want to be clear on the on the timeline and maybe you can help me um the out of the 16 reports um uh well I understand there were there were nine reports uh that were uh submitted to that were they were investigated throughout this year uh they went to a completed investigation by the inspector general at the time uh and then were given to the AGO committee in May um so out of those nine um those nine reports how many of them are reflected in these 16 reports um I believe or maybe another way to ask answer that is uh how many of those nine are not reflected in these 16 reports I believe when those nine were presented on April 9th three were approved so three would be in this report six were deferred by the AGO committee and then that's when they chose to do that outside review.

the on the timeline and maybe you can help me um the out of the 16 reports um uh well i understand there were there were nine reports uh that were uh submitted to that were they were investigated throughout this year uh they went to a completed investigation by the inspector general at the time uh and then were given to the ageo committee in may um so at out of those nine um those nine reports how many of them are reflected in these 16 reports um i believe or maybe another way to ask answer that is uh how many of those nine are not reflected in these 16 reports i believe when those nine were presented on april ninth three were approved so three would be in this report six were deferred by the ageo committee and then that's when they chose to do that outside review okay and then so there were six of them that we were they referred at that time so in April and they they had another another meeting in the summer um and then the review came back um so at out of those six were there were there any others that have been reported on since then two there's two those two though so now we're down to four two yes sir right okay so two I think we're at the last meeting in August I believe right or September uh it was uh October 15th October 15th okay so there's four that are remaining yes sir um and uh do you know where those stand um yes I anticipate having two um ready possibly by the end of next week and the way that it works is once I get these reports complete it goes through an internal review with uh my two investigators because we're only in office of three right now so we're very short staff and then from there it'll go to our OIG legal for review and then from there I do a um report that goes to the administration that has the findings and recommendations if there are any and they have time to review them.

Madam President I'm having a hard time hearing you I'm I'm sorry I'm sorry um so once it goes through our journal review goes through our OIG legal review and then the report is uh the draft is complete and then we send a summary to the administration where they will review our findings and recommendations if there are any and then after they have time to review uh with our new process we meet with them to go over any questions they may have and then from there those responses are put into the report and then they go to the AGO committee where we'll have a special meeting and depending on the the reports when they're done and then they will either approve or disappear where madam president where where are the so th those those four reports where do they stand right now I mean where I mean that they they've already been submitted to the AGO to the committee they have submitted but we're our office doing an addendum to those reports based on so they they were they were submitted back on May 9th but then they were then they were um re they asked you all to do a review and that review was done by an outside um auditor yes and then that then they came back to you and then the committee I'm assuming reviewed the review so where are they now the reports original reports are still in their draft form whether they're still I'm sorry there's their original reports are still in the draft form that were submitted on on uh April 9th but with the AGO they wanted uh the reports to be reviewed again so I have to do pretty much a review of the reports all over and then I'm doing addendum reports to these original reports and that's those two reports if you looked at our website and I also sent them to the uh city council I believe there's the original report and then the addendum report is attached to our website okay madam president so that so we have an addendum report to those reports after the review was done and then the committee has given them back to you and and right now they're you're you're finalizing the addendum reports to those is that what's going on?

To the four yes they're being uh I guess you could say re-looked at each report and there's some stuff that I had that wasn't in the original reports that I'm putting into these new addenda reports so once they are these are the denim reports are the ones that are going to get approved by the AGO committee but the originals will also be posted to the website when's the next AGO committee meeting um whenever I finish these addendum reports there'll be a special meeting I believe the next one on the calendar is in March.

In March so you don't you don't see those those reports being made public till when um as soon as I get the next two done then they will go through a special AGO meeting so I anticipate either by end of December early January for the the next two so Madam President I mean um the committee the committee has I mean uh otherwise I mean your your your job and involvement in that process obviously is to take the direction of the committee um could could you see how that I mean could could that process have been could it been any more efficient or more let's just call it could it could all of that have happened in say August in August no because REDW's final assessment wasn't out till October 3rd and then once their assessment was out that's when I was able to go and review what they the final report and work off their comments to begin my review of those reports.

In August, no, because REDW's final assessment wasn't out till October 3rd.

And then once their assessment was out, that's when I was able to go and review what they the final report and work off their comments to begin my review of those reports.

And Madam President, and uh what are those reports about?

Um being that they're still in being investigated according to our ordinance, I cannot state what they're about.

Yeah, and I knew you'd say that.

Um I guess I guess what concerns me the most is um, and again, you know, no, I'm not no no fault to anyone here, but our our process is set up to uh to be able to, I mean, you guys did a lot of hard work.

I mean, there was hard work done on those investigations for over a year, I believe, you know, um, on at least four of those investigations that were that were completed and then submitted uh by the inspector general um back in May, so six months ago.

And and in between that six months, um certainly, you know, certainly there's there's got to be a process to review those reports.

Uh we even have I mean we put it's written into our laws, the administration or I mean if it's if it's a report investigation on the city council, or whether it be in the administration, um there's an opportunity to be able to write um responses to legal to look at those and for uh for the final document to be revealed, so that's all part of that process.

But um, but but there is there is you know, when when someone's the object of an investigation, um there is something to say about an expedient um process as well, you know.

And for six months, these reports have been reviewed.

So and I I've read some, I I've read the review um, you know, from the auditor, or at least uh synopsis of those reviews, and so so we have these six reports again, investigated for a year, they've been they've been submitted six months ago, and over the last six months, there's this long process of reviewing the reviewer.

Um, and that's still what you're a part of.

You're still repart a part of reviewing the original reviewer, the original investigation, and and now writing addendums and and uh you know, after getting a review from an outside auditor, and so you got six months that go by, and um if if I were the focus of that or anybody were the focus of that investigation, um, you know, it it comes to a point where it doesn't seem fair to those that are being investigated or to those, you know, you want you either either to be able to clear your name or to be able to learn something.

Now, most of the reports and most of the investigations you do, there's always something to learn, and that's really what the ultimate result should be, right?

I mean, that the administration, if there was something done wrong, if something by the council or our staff uh that was uh that was you know done inappropriately, that we learn from that process, right?

Right now, up for six months it's been about what the what the investigators should learn by how to investigate, you know.

And so we we've got to, I think, just for the sake of transparency, the sake of you know uh justice of those who are you know being investigated of uh of bringing these to an expedient conclusion.

You would agree with that, right?

I mean, that's a part of I agree with you.

Believe me, I would like to have those reports out months ago, but I have to do my job correctly, and I gotta make sure these addendum reports have everything is based factually and be backed up.

So that's where I'm at.

And uh this is new territory for me.

Sure.

I've been with office for 17 years, and this has never happened before, so this is a learning curve for me too.

The way that the uh inspector general uh left on her terms, that is something that's never happened to to take over.

It's it's been pretty stressful, but uh with my two uh investigators, we are doing the best we can, and I think we're doing a good job.

And we're we're keeping our independence.

Madam President, no doubt you're doing a good job, sir.

I mean, I I mean it's not a reflection on you and your work, and certainly even your predecessor.

I mean, you know, um for all we know, I mean it was again a lot a lot of investigations done here, a lot of time and energy put into it.

So not a reflection of that.

Um Madam President, I guess, you know, one more thing.

Um, I mean, in your opinion, why why six months?

I mean, in your your opinion, why why for these four reports, you know, six months before they and and it sounds like nine months probably now, maybe a year before they come to the case.

Well the work, my work didn't begin until REDW's work was done.

And that they started uh first meeting with them was May 6th.

That's when we had our first meeting with REDW.

Madam President, I understand that, sir.

This is not a reflection.

I guess I'm just wondering.

I want to get your opinion on it.

You know, now that you're in there.

I started actually working on them uh October.

Yeah.

So you know.

And I apologize, but I will have them done as soon as I can, and they'll be able to do that.

Madam President, yeah, do you have a do you have an opinion on on why they've taken six months?

Why that why they're not out and published by now?

Well, like I said, I didn't start until October.

It's not six months.

It took uh the review from May through October to get done.

And that was on REDWING.

On your part, on your part.

I'm talking about the Madam President.

The uh the the reports were submitted, and typically once they're submitted on May 9th, yes, um, they would be reviewed, and um you know, within a period of time, a month or so, they would be made public.

And so why you know 16 investigations that were made public pretty quickly, and why four and why four that were I mean, you could see why someone would be saying, Well, who's the focus of those investigations?

You know, I mean it just leaves it leaves itself open to so many questions about what's the focus of those investigations.

What are they about?

Why why in the world would they take six months uh for them to become public?

Any opinion on it at all?

The AGO uh committee decided to do have the outside uh firm to these uh reviews, and after that it's up to the AGO to approve these reports.

So yeah.

Well, Madam President, I mean I again maybe it's the process that we've set up, and I think it needs some serious look at uh uh reforming this whole process.

I mean, the public I think the public deserves it, and I think whoever the objective is those in those investigations deserve it.

I think we're on the same page, sir.

And I know you're in a um probably in a difficult position.

You got a committee that you have to answer to as well.

A committee that we set up, by the way, that this this council set up and the administration.

Um, you know, I mean, without pinpointing, you know, or uh putting blame or anything else.

I I think it's important that we at least raise the issue that uh uh this is a long time.

And if it's the process that's taken a long time, then we got to take a serious look at the ordinance that created this process and what we could do to change it.

Thank you.

Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you for being here.

I just have a couple questions, just reviewing the report and looking at the breakdown of complaints coming in in the volume.

Um out of 427 complaints, 237 of them were DMD.

Yes.

And so I just wanted, you know, are what are the predominant types of allegations that come out of DMD?

Those 237 were mostly um parking, like violations, like this car is parked too close to a medium.

And um it's a lot to do with um ordinances where the way houses are built these days, like there's not enough parking.

So they they break the rules because there's not enough parking in front of their houses.

Um and uh a lot of the complaints, the the complainant seems to have not to 311 to to see which what how many complaints are going through uh DMD and then they would refer those 311s to us.

And a lot of the times DMD stated that they have to actually see the violation of the car parked there to give a ticket, they cannot just go off the picture sent by the complainant because when they go with it, the vehicle's not there.

So a lot of those DODs were mostly parking violations at home residences.

Thank you, Madam President.

Okay, so just does your department look at you know volume and which departments you're seeing a lot of volume and doing targeted audits or anything that happened like proactive anything if you see a pattern.

We don't have enough staff to be proactive to tell you the truth.

Thank you, which leads me to my next question.

Um you currently have two investigators and one lead investigator, so it's a department of three and no uh permanent inspector general, which you know, I think you do the best that you can, but I really just think it's hard for us for me to have confidence with that many complaints coming in that you can even go through, I mean, that many.

Um and I think to counselor uh Lewis's point, you know, just thinking about the structure of over site.

Um, you know, I would be interested in recommendations about that because I think that we definitely need to give you more resources.

Yeah, you're correct.

We are way understaffed.

If you look, I'm just gonna say the CPOE, they have 22 uh employees in their realm just to look at APD.

And we have to look at the whole city contractors and then three, four when fully staffed.

Um then going back to you regarding the six months during the time period.

Also, the Board of Ethics recommended had us do an investigation, and that takes priority.

So from the middle of August till October 1st, the two investigators were doing that investigation and were out in the field and completing that report for the board of ethics.

So that took time as well away from the other investigation.

Would that thank you, Madam President?

Would that be considered a special investigation?

Because I saw that there weren't any special investigations listed in the in the report, so I was shocked.

That's a special investigation, but it's for the student fiscal year.

Got it.

Okay, next year.

So in the next year's report, we'll see special investigations about campaign practices and that type of stuff.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

I think one more question just about um the the cases where I was really particularly interested in the cases where you found substantiated complaints.

What's the process there for corrective action?

Is there do you recommend disciplinary action or do you how does that work in your department?

Um we we kind of uh recommend discipline, it's up to the uh the city administration to do that.

Uh we do recommendations, and then every 45 days we check to see if corrective actions have been implemented or not.

And sometimes it takes a while to get the comments back, but um we update our corrective action forms.

Thank you.

Is uh Madam is that something that could go in the report?

What corrective actions you recommended and what the administration actually followed through on or not?

Yeah, that can go in in our next year's on the report.

I would love to add that to the report.

I think that would help us just to echo some of the corrective actions, especially around budget funding, grant funding types of things.

Yes.

Um I think that would be very helpful.

I can definitely do that.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam President.

We are on OC 47.

Any other questions or comments, counselors?

The motion is for a receipt be noted.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a seven to two vote.

We're gonna go a little out of order since we have Mr.

Pacheco here.

We're gonna go to OC56, the Office of Inspector General's annual whistleblower report for fiscal year 2025.

I move a receipt be noted.

Second, there's a motion and a second by Madam Vice President.

Counselors, any questions or comments?

All right, seeing none, there is a motion for a receipt be noted on OC56.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes 90.

Thank you for being here, Mr.

Moving on.

We're going to OC48, the Office of Internal Audits Annual Report for Fiscal Year 2025.

I move a receipt be noted.

There's a second by Madam Vice President.

I know that Miss Vargas, our auditor, is on Zoom.

If you have any questions or comments, counselors, any counselor grout.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, thank you for being here, Ms.

Vargas.

Um, I have a question about um there is one audit that's missing out of this, um, and it is has to do with the Gibson Gateway.

I had asked um for an audit uh almost three years ago, and it's not here.

And I understand that you're having some trouble getting information from the city's attorney city attorney's office uh regarding legal issues related to that project.

Can you explain?

Uh tell us what's going on there.

Madam President, Counselor Grout, um that audit is missing because it's still ongoing, and so we all report on completed reports and our annual reports.

Nonetheless, as we were doing research for that audit, we came across some legal matters that we needed some clarification on, and we've been um inquiring of the city's legal office whether these matters are settled or not or where they are in process, and we have yet to receive any answers.

Um we followed up most recently about last week, and then prior to that last month, and then the prior month.

Okay, thank you.

Have you gotten information from the other city departments in a timely manner?

Yes, all of our other requests because we are having to work with multiple departments.

Um they have been satisfied in a timely manner.

Okay.

Um, Madam President, does your office have administrative subpoena power?

Madam President, Counselor Grout, yes, we do.

Have you subpoenaed um the information you need?

I have not subpoenaed the information that we need.

Okay.

Um Ms.

Ordinance says that all city officials, employees, and contractors shall provide the city auditor full and unrestricted access to all the city offices, employees, records, information, data, reports, um, plans, projections, all kinds of things on electronic data, property, um that they have and other materials within their custody.

Um Councillor Bassan, Councillor Grout, I I absolutely do.

I have to say this did not ring a bell to me.

And I I have had a very busy few months, and I there are things that I know that I haven't responded to people on, and I'm trying.

This is not one that that I um remember at all, so I just searched and I don't have the last uh email that I have from Ms.

Vargas is from April, um, and it is not regarding the gateway.

It could be that she's contacted someone else and I'm just not aware of it.

Um, but I will I can certainly follow up and make sure that we do respond.

I I would appreciate that.

Um they have been on this um project now.

It's been it'll be three years tomorrow, and um they since April they've been really actively working on this, and so they're just waiting from the city audit of the city legals office.

Um so they're waiting on that for information.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can I just ask you it will it will be very quick because I've been very involved in those cases that I can very quickly provide an update?

That's great.

Thank you.

Counselors, any other questions on OC48?

Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I'll ask the same question to you of adding to the report the recommendations that you give and which are are implemented by the administration versus not implemented.

Is that some I believe we do have that in some tables, but um we can make it more readily accessible?

Thank you, Madam President.

My apologies if I missed it.

I'm quickly scrolling.

Um but it's just the same thing about concerns with capacity and staff.

What would you say to that?

Um the last few years, our office has requested um more FTEs, but we understand some of the financial constraints the city is under.

Um if we had more manpower, we could accomplish a lot more audits.

We do get a numerous requests, especially that we uh since we've increased our outreach efforts and educating everyone the services that we can provide.

Uh nonetheless, we are sort of uh limited to what we can accomplish every year.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, last question is the were city department's individuals that were subject to any of these investigations given full opportunity to respond to allegations and how do they provide their own evidence?

Just curious about accessing the final reports.

Do they get the final reports?

Do they get to include you know any response to those findings?

Madam President, Counselor Rogers, uh we issue what we call a draft report, and so part of that process is we have planning, field work, and reporting, in field work because that's where we do our testing and identify any potential issues that could evolve into findings and our published reports.

That's when we we loop in the clients, we get their feedback.

It becomes an exercise of what sort of the root cause of the findings, how can they be addressed from there?

We um develop feasible recommendations and get by and from the clients and the departments, and then from there after the report is published, um after it's submitted to AGO and reviewed and approved, then we follow up every six months until those recommendations are implemented at post.

Thank you, madam president.

Thank you so much for those answers.

Any other questions or comments, counselors?

We're on OC 56.

The motion is a receipt be noted.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

I think the next two agenda items.

I think it was OC48.

Oh, sorry, that was OC48.

To clarify, thank you.

All of the OCs passed.

Thank you for the record.

Moving on to final actions, I'm gonna do the next two.

I think they'll be.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I think they should be relatively quick, so and then we'll take a dinner break.

Uh so we're gonna move on to P8.

Councillor Backa.

Thank you, Madam President.

P8, adopting a proposition to be sent to the voters at the 2026 general election, proposing to repeal Article 11, Section 7 Charter of the City of Albuquerque regarding the public vote on performing arts center.

Uh once again, we are just trying to write a wrong here.

I move do pass.

Second.

There's a motion and a second by Councillor Rogers.

Let's go ahead and move on to public comment and then we'll come back for questions and answers.

Thank you, Madam President.

We have Lisa Christofferson, followed by Tad Numitsky.

Councilor Bassan, President Bassan.

Um, just as a little side note, after listening to discussion from the inspector general's office, I want to say unequivocally, I have zero confidence.

Uh I had maybe like a little, I have absolutely zero confidence that my uh city government is out operating financially as it's supposed to.

Uh when we can't release, thank you so much for the uh that query.

Um why are constituents not informed about how our city administration is using our money?

Uh this is um a resolution about a performing arts center.

Uh I went to college on a banned scholarship.

I'm a banned geek marching uh ban.

However, I am not confident to give this city any kind of millions of dollars.

We can't even account for Gateway East, and a thousand people could fit in there, and it has not been open for several years.

We have winter coming up, it's not open.

It could be and it should be.

We have quirky books, uh, that those folks could be there.

We talked about having those folks move over there.

It's just not been made available.

So I also want to ask why the public library and Mess Ayers keeps having to come here for funding for HVAC, uh, but we want performing art center.

So I'm not against performing arts center.

I'm just saying there are some things that possibly could be funded uh in a way with as much enthusiasm as the performing arts center if we could uh please.

So the revolving door of incarceration uh for trespassing, minor offenses, etc.

Uh the reality is that um it is our responsibility as a city to take care of our people, our neighbors who are unhoused, and quirky books is just filling in.

So for us to go after them when they are actually providing a service uh to the city, I think is wrong on our part.

So um I would say um to Mayor Keller, if you're listening and to to city um uh officials, please, please, please.

If you want us to vote for things, give us something to trust you in.

Tad Yumitsky.

Excuse me.

I made the mistake.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, so counselors, we are back on P8.

Any questions or comments?

All right.

All those in favor of P eight, please raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

There's a a leaping yes through there.

It passes on a 9-0.

Moving on to R208, Counselor Bacca.

Thank you, Madam President.

R208, adopting a proposition to be submitted to the voters at the next election to be held in the city of Albuquerque concerning an amendment to Article 11, Section 7 of the Albuquerque City Charter, providing the form of the question and the designation clause for such question on the ballot.

Uh, once again, this is just a charter amendment, not a vote for any funding or any actual structure.

So uh once again, and again, of course, we're just writing or wrong here.

I move do pass.

There's a motion and a second by councillor grout.

Any questions or comments?

All those in favor of R208, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes, anyone opposed that passes on an 8-0 vote.

Wait, what did you vote?

Yes?

Pardon?

Just point to quick.

Madam President, a point of clarification.

The last one says at the 2026 general election.

This one does not say that.

It says in the next election.

We have an election next Tuesday.

Ms.

Kluidon.

I just want to be sure.

Madam President, if you'll give me just one moment to pull up the bill and make sure that that is reflected within the text of the bill, if not in the title.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councillor Backer forgot to knock on wood when he was motioning this bill.

Madam President, it is in the body of the bill.

Section one says uh following the proposal on the 2026 election ballot, general election ballot.

Madam President, counselors, thank you, Councilor Rogers.

That is reflected in the body of the bill.

Thank you, Madam President.

Yes.

Any other questions or comments?

The motion is for a due pass of R208.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

We're going to break for dinner and come back at 725.

Okay, everyone, we are back.

We are back.

I know that there's a couple more still trickling in, but we have a quorum.

And we have some items on the agenda still.

So we're on 067.

Councilor Pena.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

O sixty seven is um committee sub-amending chapter two of Article 11 of the City of Albuquerque code of ordinances to improve the city's uh budget proposed proposal processes and strengthen oversight and accountability measures.

Um I move a due pass.

I'm well, I think we're gonna defer it, but I'll move a due pass and then we're have to defer it because there's some major changes in here.

So the motion is for a due pass for now.

Is there a second?

There's a second from Councillor Rogers.

We have several amendments this evening.

I know that councillor grout is on her way down as well.

She's the first one in the packet, but I will skip that one and then we'll move on to what is labeled as amendment B in your packets.

Uh amendment one to committee substitute 67 is my amendment.

It's starting on page five, line six.

Amend section 2115A process and sequence for establishing five-year goals and one-year objectives.

The Albuquerque progress report and city county comprehensive plan shall be guiding documents for developing the five-year goals.

The part that I'd like to add is consistent with section 3216 of the code of resolutions.

The mayor and city council shall consider any applicable comprehensive plan analyses prepared through the web pays based tool when reviewing or amending the five-year goals.

There's a motion and then a second from Councillor Champagne.

Counselors, this is because earlier this year we ended up passing the comprehensive uh plan tool that is still being worked on by DTI and with the admin and with our staff.

However, I do think that when we're making our five-year goals and objectives that we should put to use what we said we should be using and designed in the system.

So I thought that it would be appropriate to add that in here.

Are there any questions or comments?

Seeing none, I urge your support on amendment one to 067.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Any opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

I'm going to counselor, may I just I'm gonna keep on with my amendments and then we'll come back to yours.

Amendment number two.

I move amendment number two beginning on page four, line 10, amend section two eleven third three to include the following definitions, salary savings, a reduction in the department's fully funded personnel budget based on the department's historical level of vacant positions, vacancy savings.

The difference between the total appropriated personnel budget and actual personnel expenditures during a given period.

There's a motion, is there a second?

There's a second by counselor grout.

Uh these definitions are added to clarify something we constantly talk about, and I think we interchange these definitions throughout the year, and they're not really technically the same.

So I thought it would be also appropriate to make sure to do that now.

Are there any questions or comments?

And I apologize on my first amendment.

I wanted to ask the admin on all of the amendments if there's any additional comments or questions that you'd like to add as well.

So I guess if you want on the first one, you can say something too.

Madam President, thank you.

Um you provided us the opportunity to review these today.

I appreciate that.

It gave us the ability to work through any of it.

I think we don't have concerns about either the first one or the second one through the discussions and um and how we use these uh definitions.

I think this is uh directly aligned with how we use them today.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

Seeing none, the motion is for amendment number two to committee sub 067.

All those in favor raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

I move amendment number three to 067.

This one is definitely more in-depth.

Uh this starts with within seven business days on this of the submission of the mayor's budget proposal to the city council, each department shall provide the following information.

The list below on this, I can read it if you all would like.

I know that it is on the screen.

These are the general questions that are submitted every single year by the council to the administration in the first round of questions.

Uh, and then our staff ends up uh coming back to us and saying, Do we use the next week or the week after, depending on if we're doing social or physical goals to add in any more specific questions that we have?

But these are the ones that every single year for years are asked repeatedly and can be counted on.

So I thought also why not add this into the ordinance while we have it open.

So I move amendment number three.

Is there a second?

There's a second by Councilor Grout.

Any questions or comments?

Councilor Fablecorn.

Thank you, um, Madam President.

Just curious.

Um, we have budget call documents listed here, but budget call documents are not defined, and I know that we know, but like if we're making this kind of you know, very foolproof, um, it might be something we want to consider putting a definition for.

And I will defer to staff on on that.

I know that they developed it based off of what they forward in the general questions, and so is there anything you'd like to add, or can we define that?

Is there a need to define it or Ms.

Madam President, Counselor Feeblecorn?

Um I would almost ask the administration as well, but I know what all budget call documents are.

Um, we could maybe describe it a little bit more.

Um if that um would help.

Um so let me ask Madam CAO do you all have another recommendation or anything to specify budget call documents.

Um, Madam President, I didn't not knowing exactly what council services staff intends for this document to represent.

I mean, I could make something up.

Um, but you know, we a budget call document.

Could it be anything from a gut uh guidance provided to departments for preparation?

It could be um the specific uh document that we put together that sets out the timeline.

Okay, so uh without shooting from the hip, but proving your point.

Uh what I would say is I still would like to move this amendment, but because we're going to be deferring this bill, I would like to work with staff on making another amendment to rectify this and make it a little bit clearer at the December 15th meeting.

Thank you.

I see nods for those that can't see that.

Uh, and then from the admin, do you have any additional comments or questions regarding this amendment?

Uh Madam President, thank you.

I think uh based upon our discussions and looking through the list.

This is consistent with current practice at the request of council services staff and the counselors.

We do answer these questions.

We do them today in two different kind of tranches based upon the work patent calendar that we set.

Um so the seven days is is um we're meaningful to that as work as business days because it does take the same staff that prepare the budget, the proposed budget to then compile this information from that prepared document.

So thank you.

Thank you.

With that, I will urge your support to amendment three to 067.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed that passes on a nine-zero vote.

Councilor Grout, I believe we're gonna go back to your amendment as amendment number four.

Thank you, madam president.

Um, for amendment number four.

Um, I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but it's about study sessions.

I think um, you know, we're always so formal in our meetings and so forth, and um having study sessions uh mid-year with department directors would be helpful to all of us, and so they would be um, of course, they would be open meetings as far as people would know them, but there would be no questions for public to ask, but we could have a conversation going back and forth.

So this amendment authorizes the committee of the whole to convene mid-fiscal year study sessions for the purpose of receiving informational operations, brief operational briefings from department directors related to the upcoming fiscal year.

These sessions occur during the mid-fiscal year prior uh period prior to the submission of the mayor's draft uh proposed budget and are not part of the formal budget review or adoption process.

Study sessions are if informational only, do not include public comment, may include presentations or departmental structure, programs, operations, and anticipated needs.

Department directors may accompany may be accompanied by appropriate staff to assist in responding to council questions, and the chair determines the subject matter in the scheduling of such sessions, and I would like to offer this as for amendment number four.

The motion is for amendment number four.

There's a second by councilor champagne.

Any questions or comments, counselors?

Councilor Fablecorn.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, just wanting to make sure I'm reading this right.

It says at the call of the chair, so there may be years when there are no study sessions, and it would be only up to the committee of the whole chair.

Yes.

Thank you, Madam President.

Any other questions or comments from the council?

And from the admin, do you have anything that you'd like to add?

So the count uh council president and I would just ask, so it's at behest of the committee chair.

When would we know if they're gonna have this study session?

Because our budget department does quarterly projections every three months, so mid-year, they would already be working on the mid-year quarterly projections that come a month later.

And so if we were having our departments do the exact same work, they would have to know in advance.

It doesn't happen within two weeks or three weeks as they have their normal duties that they do all the time.

So I think clarifying what it would be as opposed to just saying, well, you could have a study session depending on if somebody requests it or not, would be beneficial to our staff so that they know what's coming and that they don't get blindsided or all of a sudden get hit with an extensive amount of work that they have to do upon their normal duties.

Counselor Rod uh Councilor Grout.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, thank you for that.

Um the the intent is not to do it during the budget once the budget's been um offered, it's prior to that, and um, so that we want to be mindful of everybody's time, but um having that ability to have easier discussions or you know, less formal discussions um because things come up and and um so that is the intent.

Um from our budget staff, it could you clarify any better or make any recommendations?

Mr.

Motsko Council President Bassan, uh Councillor Grout, that's exactly right.

This isn't a gotcha uh tactic whatsoever.

It is at the behest of the committee of the whole chair.

Uh we would give the administration plenty of notice at mid-fiscal year, which everyone knows is the end of the calendar year.

So around this time, I would say if this passes and and the ordinance passes, around this time next year, we would be giving the administration uh a request to have a study session in early 2027.

28 because we have to due to sorry, due to the uh passage.

If this does pass, we are holding off until FY28.

So we're not doing this next year.

We're giving the administration uh more than 12 months to see the changes and get used to the changes for not next fiscal year coming up.

So it's not this budget coming up, but the budget after.

There you go.

Council Grout, thank you.

Thank you for that explanation.

Mr.

Whalen, is there is there a recommended like what what would be the time frame that you need to have notice in order to prepare?

Council President, there's a couple of issues with this.

Number one, everybody know in January.

In February, we're dealing with the state legislature, which takes a lot of our staff to get things ready to be going there.

Also, our budget call for the city is in January and February.

So they're preparing the budget for next year, and we're trying to get those numbers correct to do a study session is almost to make them do twice the amount of work in those two months to try and get the budget prepared while they're looking forward.

So I think we do our quarterly projections, and those are budget taxals that we already do.

I think doing it by department is kind of redundant and is it gonna be a pressure and a tax on our staff as we're going into that on top of having to deal with the state legislature and all the things that come with that.

Counselor's any uh counselor champagne and then counselor Lewis.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

This is the question for the sponsor.

The idea of this is that we're going to sit down and discuss the budget that we've been discussing and continuation discussing so that we share information and understand more.

Okay.

Madam President, then Mr.

Whalen, so the topic of the budget is what your budget team of how many how many do you have?

Uh Madam Chair and Councillor Champagne, I think we have a total staff of seven or eight.

That could be all seven or eight that Madam President, seven or eight people that this is what they do year round.

So to ask them to present and talk about information that they discuss and work within 40 hours plus a week.

This is what they do.

Please help me clarify why I am Madam Chair and Counselor Champagne.

You have to understand that our seven to eight budget staff, they oversee all the departments, and it's the departments who run the day-to-day operations, do the day-to-day payments, the day-to-day receivables, the day-to-day transactions that they get their information from, and then when they're preparing the budget, it's the departments that are preparing the budget, and then they work through the budget department.

So it's we yes, we have seven to eight, but they oversee all the departments throughout the city, including all of our enterprise funds and including all of our grants.

Okay.

Madam President, so taking so it sounds like you guys have a good handle on the 1.5 billion dollars that we spend.

And asked in when request to say, hey, share some of that information, it should be readily available.

You guys are working at it all the time.

So I don't I find it hard that our argument is saying that we can't, it'll be very difficult for us to find the time to talk about what our job is.

Uh Madam President, Councilor Champagne.

Specifically, this is a request presentation by the directors.

Um it is specifically about everything uh uh operational, so it isn't just presenting budget dollars, it's operational discussion.

Um, the the significance of these departments and and the scopes that they have based upon the topics here in terms of requested discussion, absolutely valid that we can discuss it, but have a formal presentation in a specific format is a significant level of work.

Now we're talking about, I think Mr.

Matsko said in December.

In December is when we load all of our everything in for our legislative asks from these departments, they do that work.

They also begin their preparation to ensure that we're all in compliance for the mid-year cleanup and all of the work that we're doing.

It isn't like they're sitting around doing nothing on the other.

What you're saying basically, Madam CAO, is that it sounds like the information is readily available.

We just want it shared with us in the presentation.

It's already available that you said you would have been doing throughout the case.

Madam President, Councilor Champagne.

We can absolutely discuss what we do in our departments.

I just want us to reflect on the fact that this is is significant additional work.

It was implied that it would not be, and it is.

I mean, all of these departments work every day to run these directors are running the work.

They're not um, and so I just want to be clear there is a fiscal impact, there is impact here in this work, and um it isn't simply just oh, you can show up to a meeting and talk about what you do.

It's a specific presentation request in preparation that they will put together.

Thank you, Madam President.

Counselor Lewis Um I maybe just some thoughts to um help a little bit here.

Um we're talking about an October around October or so, would that be?

Um I'm mid-year.

So we can go anywhere from December, November to March, even if we want to.

So I mean, Madam President, so you're talking like mid-year um mid year is really to the time that you're getting the next budget together, you know.

So I I kind of get that.

Um I mean it it might be that October might be a good timeline for that, where it's it's it's a it's a you know one quarter into the new budget.

It's also the time where we're we're getting to know what the reversions are gonna be from the previous budget, and uh and maybe it's uh committee the whole meeting where the the committee chair and uh the the FGO or the finance director might uh or the CFO might sit down and just agree on an agenda um with a brief update from the departments on where they're at the first part of the um the budget year as well as discuss some of the reversions and where they're at from the previous year.

Um maybe since we have some time we can we can work on that amendment to clarify the details of it a little bit, but just some thoughts.

Counselor Grow.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, um Counselor Lewis.

Um the intent is for us to um learn more from the directors, the department directors.

Um we have a 1.5 billion dollar budget that we're responsible for, and we have lots of questions, and we don't always um get them answered right away.

It's and it's got to go through a formal process to get those questions.

Tonight I asked if there are department directors available, and and you don't know where they are, you know, and and that's kind of like when we're trying to gain knowledge and information about how to do things, um, how to spend taxpayer dollars.

We want some, you know, we want to be able to ask those questions a little more freely and and just learn more and be more fiscally responsible with the with the task that we've been given.

That's all it is.

It's not a gotcha, it's trying to learn more.

Um, and it's um, and I don't we don't want to make it more um uh more burdens burdensome.

Um council staff also has is getting ready for the legislative session.

Um there's but I know that the each department has budget uh staff as well.

Um and I think that um I think I think your your staff is very capable of of uh coming up with this information.

Um I think that you can have um you know we can discuss different dates and um timelines, um, but you know, gaining knowledge, how to spend taxpayer dollars wisely is um there's nothing wrong with that, and so having extra time to um to have that ability to ask those questions I think is important.

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I just uh had a question.

You you mentioned fiscal impact.

So just maybe this is for our team or the sponsor.

I don't see a fiscal impact analysis with this bill, and I know I thought with our rules they were like so.

I'm just wondering is there a fiscal impact analysis for this bill?

Or this relevant ordinance?

Sorry.

Uh council president and counselor rogers for uh the committee sub in the entirety.

No, there's no fiscal impact with this, it's an ordinance change.

Okay, so thank you, Madam President.

So my question is what is the what would be the fiscal impact be to do this?

What what um councillor ground's asking?

Madam CAO.

Thank you, Madam President, Councillor Rogers.

Uh, having not seen this and having had no time to think through any of this, um, it'd be very difficult for us on the fly to come up with fiscal impact analysis.

Just for the record, typically ordinances and the um and uh resolutions per your code of resolutions always have an FIA attached to them.

They rarely do when we get them from council services.

Um so this was not our bill.

This was the bill that we worked on for the last nine months with council services staff.

We had uh worked uh in I think more than 15 hours of meetings to work through and were able to work through multiple um iterations of this.

I think six to seven staff worked with us on this, but it was not our bill.

Um we we were working in an effort to be open and transparent and working together.

I think it's been a common theme that has been stated.

Let's can't we work together?

And so I appreciate that comment.

Um so again, I can't come up with a fiscal analysis on the fly without having uh something presented that we can then consider.

Thank you, Madam President.

I think maybe that's something that we could work on since we're deferring it, that we can include that so that we can know what that is.

If you're saying that there is a fiscal impact, then we can collaborate on what that is.

Thank you, Madam President.

Counselor February.

Thank you, Madam President.

So um I definitely uh agree that study sessions are great.

Um I would love for this to um be implemented.

I do hear the concerns of the administration, and I'm just wondering, I'm seeing it for the first time too.

So um, but it does say that um at the request of the chair, department directors shall provide general briefings that may include and so if you like the A through E are not requirements.

Um so my cons my big concern is on number two, where it says the chair shall determine the subject matter format and timings.

I'm just wondering if the format was left out of there, and then of course it's the cow chair that says what the subject matter would be and when the timing is, but then it becomes more of an informal um discussion with department directors, which I believe is what or at least what I would like.

Um, and I'm wondering if that would be helpful.

Madam CAO.

Uh Madam President, Counselor Februar, I appreciate the the idea.

Um informal discussion is always much easier, I think, for folks to um participate in and answer questions, and if they don't have the answers, which I think is important to know that you know, a director may not have every answer that could come up that we can then uh get use kind of similar to what we use here at council where we make sure that we provide written answers so that everyone can have those answers as well in writing afterwards.

That's helpful.

Um so I appreciate that you know that we thinking about informality as a way to reduce the load at the time specific that we're talking about.

Council Feblecorn.

Um thank you, Madam President.

I I guess that would just be my and I I will think through this if this passes tonight on a change of that word for the next time, but really just thinking through a way to have not a specific format that causes the direct department directors to spend a lot of time preparing, but still gets us in a format where we can have these conversations with them about what they're experiencing.

So thank you for the answer.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

So yeah, um, thank you, Councilor Feblecorn for that.

I think that would probably be helpful because I think that the idea of having this um ability to have this study session is I like I like the idea.

I was just gonna ask, because it seems as though this is all stuff that you you're in agreement that you can do, it's just like the time frame in which um you'd have to do it.

So is there a tie a different time frame maybe that we either the language that um counselor feeble corn suggested or uh time frame of when maybe this study session can be held so that it isn't just not so um burdensome, madam president, counselor plenary.

So one of the things we also have to take into consideration, I know that the the time frame of October was suggested one quarter in.

That's also the time where we're uh starting our annual AFCA audit.

So we have auditors here that are pulling from all of our departments, they're pulling fixed asset listings, accounts payable stuff.

So there's already stuff going on in October that's before the budget, and that continues on through December 15th.

And so we really don't know what our fund balance is even gonna be till close to December 15th, because that's all happening as they're auditing our books and closing our books, and that's why it's only done once a year because it's a it's a very long process.

So our staff they go right out of um doing the after, which they start preparing for in September to January going right into the budget.

So the timing is gonna be, you know, doing it in December would be even a little bit more stressful because they're getting their budget call right after finishing the annual audit, and then they go right into preparing the budget.

And a lot of the things that we prepare for our after, you know, we really don't share because they're not complete and they're not finalized.

So it um madam um president, so you I guess what you're suggesting is that um more of counselor feeble corn's language to where it's um more informal.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Lewis, Madam Chair, uh just to suggest a friendly amendment to um just I guess to keep the amendment going.

Um just just delete um section one.

If you delete section one, I mean it's uh it would be a um an informal um uh study session at the discretion of the the chair um and it would leave it pretty open.

I think it's worth I think the amendment's worth having.

Um take some of those specifics out, but there's still some pretty good parameters.

Um you know, the committee of the whole meeting the whole meets um in the spring, and that's it.

Um just provide an opportunity for the committee of the whole to meet and do a study session um at another time in the year.

So counselor grout sounds good to me.

So we would take out all of one and then renumber two as one.

Correct?

Okay, that's I'm good with that.

There's a motion for amendment number four.

You know it kills me not to make an amendment to an amendment, but there's a motion for amendment number four.

We do need a second.

There's a second from Madam Vice President, Councilor Rogers, and then I'll go back to the admin.

Oh counselor feeblecorn.

Thank you, Madam President.

So um I I appreciate the intent.

I I do I think that the concern is in section two, where we say that the chair shouldn't can determine the format of those presentations because then we could have a lot of requirements.

So um I would I would flip-flop that and take out number two if it were me.

Um but that's just my point.

And the admin, did you all have something to add?

Madam President, thank you.

Uh I I appreciate the friendly amendment.

The only question I have is is if the timeline is specific when it says mid-fiscal year, if that's still that we're talking about a specific time frame in December, or if it can be more flexible for us to determine time when it's possible.

From what I heard earlier, Madam CAO, it sounds like the sponsor had indicated it could be anywhere from October to March.

Is that correct, Councilor Grout?

Yes, Madam President.

Any other questions or comments?

Councillor Grout to close, but first I'm gonna recap.

Amendment number four.

There is no longer a section number one.

We voted on that.

We there was not an amendment to the amendment.

It was a friendly amendment that the sponsor decided to change.

So it is Section E study sessions, and then what is marked in your packet as number two is really number one.

That's it.

Okay, Councillor Grout to close.

Hi heard your support.

Counselors, all those in favor of amendment number four to oh sixty-seven, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a seven to two vote.

We're moving on to amendment it's labeled E in your packet.

It will be number five, Councillor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh I think this is amendment number six.

This is amendment five.

Thank you.

Um this one is uh amending section two-11-16 financial reports after a subsection uh a by inserting the following.

This is just around our fund 265 and the questions we have a lot about fund 265, um, and doing some reporting on that fund.

Um the amendment adds a requirement to provide financial reports on all active grants and projects within special revenue fund 265, also known as the grants fund.

The report must include basic financial information for each award as well as status of updates, expenditures, especially reversions for non-compliance concerns.

Um and the purpose of the amendment is to sta establish a regular reporting schedule for fund 265, similar to existing reporting structure for capital project activities.

And I move a do pass.

There's a motion.

Is there a second?

There's a second from Councillor Baca.

Any questions or comments, counselors?

Any questions from the admin or comments?

Madam President.

Yeah, Madam President, we had we didn't see this in advance, and we just started looking at it.

Um, but just from the reading it just within the last hour, it seems that this is gonna be very burdensome for our staff in that do fund 265.

We have hundreds of grants that have requirements, and having to do this in conjunction with a mid-year report is just gonna be a lot, a lot of work.

There's a reason why a lot of our federal grants, the federal, the the granting agencies, whether it's a state or the federal, the feds uh they ask us to do quarterly or biannual or annual reports because they know how burdensome this could be.

That's how we get reimbursed as quarterly.

We get reimbursed biannually, or we get reimbursed uh annually if it's reimbursement based.

If it's forward funded, then we're required to submit those, but it's usually quarterly, biannually, or annually.

To have to do this every month for every grant.

We have grants it across multiple years, um, is gonna be extremely burdensome on the staff and would be very hard for us to do.

And um, yeah, it's not part of the operating budget, it's part of our grants.

So Madam Vice President.

Counselor Roger, thank you, Madam President.

So what could what would work best for the administration?

Quarterly, biannually, Madam President and Councilor Rogers.

I think we have to talk to our granting manager to see what she feels her staff could do and produce every whatever would be able to be done.

And so I think if we talk to her, because she has not seen this, uh, we would have to see what she thinks could be done by department.

Thank you, Madam President.

Okay, and then question for you how do you manage them now?

Like how do you track them now?

Madam President and Councilor Rogers, they track the expenses every day and then they reconcile through the departments every month or two months, but they don't have a final unless they're the report that they send is based on what the granting agency is required to do.

So some of the grants that are required quarterly, they're tracking it and then they compile a quarterly report at the end of three quarters, and then they submit the quarterly report.

Okay, thank you, Madam President.

So I'd like to update this to quarterly.

Sounds like I heard you mention that the most.

Um, and so let's update it to quarterly to try to to work with you on that, and then in the next two weeks while we defer it, if you speak with the grants manager and she needs more time, we can talk about it then.

So I just want to change it to quarterly.

Madam CAO.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Counselor.

One thing I want to mention is that so this is not typically included in the budget process.

So I'm not sure if this should be included in the budget ordinance, or this should be something that we that you could put into a resolution separately.

Um because it it is distinctly um unique in the fact that it isn't part of the operating budget process, if that makes sense.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

I think that's what I'm trying to get at is we use fund 265 a lot sometimes for programs that you know may not these are are these all grants or are there other funding that comes to 265 Madam Chair and Council Rogers, a majority of them are grants or not all.

Not all very they're all grants.

Um I'll defer to our director of finance, but thank you.

I would say a majority of them are all grants from either state or federal.

President Bassan, Councilor Rogers.

Um, most of them are grants.

There might be a couple others that are that extend beyond uh the funding is beyond one year that are also housed to fund 265.

Yeah, thank you, madam president.

I think that's exactly what I want to see them broken out like that.

So I think um I I personally want to keep it because it's financial reports that um that are about what the city has financially, so I I think I want to keep it where it's at.

Thank you, Madam President.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

So I wanted to ask our staff just some questions in terms because we had this in there originally, right?

When when we it was proposed the um outlining of the um fund 265, Mr.

Matsko.

Um council president Bassan, Vice President uh Pena.

We discussed this at your uh direction to talk about when you asked us to review the the budget ordinance to look at everything that was happening and that was happening that was not in the budget ordinance and things that were in the budget ordinance and not happening.

So I'm as Laura uh Ms.

Rumler looks up the information.

Um I know we discussed this because this was something that um you know when the administration uh has transferred uh general fund money 110 into 265 uh from HHH.

Um we don't have that really at our fingertips anymore to see where we're at with those situations.

So as I continue to speak slowly and stall, Ms.

Rumble's looking at the Madam President.

So so just so that I can add because this is something that was had been brought up in previous uh budget cycles about this this fund and um budget staff feeling like you know there's not an ability to be able to identify where this money so um so we talked about it and and there's a a couple of amendments here that you know I mean on the dais everybody has an opportunity to put um amendments what uh a counselor puts forward isn't you know written in stone and this isn't what you know, but I do kind of just want to refresh everybody's memory is to say that um you know kind of like what I talked about at the last meeting.

I I think uh we we worked on this budget um I think eight nine months.

It's been a while, it's been a while, right?

And and working with the administration to just kind of do some give and take.

This was one of the things that we kind of conceded on.

So I just I I just worry again, anybody can put whatever amendment they want to, but I just worry that all that work trying to get to good governance is to where um we're not 100% happy, they're not 100% happy, but we really came to a place where we could all feel comfortable with with what was being put forward, right?

And um, and so you know I just I get concerned with some of these things.

Um I think it should be outside of the um outside of the budget cycle, just with you know, with everything that we've been talking about and all the all the work that's that's been done, is that um I just really want to make sure that you know we're not really adding because I feel like they worked in good faith with us for a long time, and it was a lot of give and take and a lot of you know, and um, and I just worry that us putting back some of the concessions, it kind of goes against kind of the um against all the work that we did in the work that they did in good faith.

Did you still want information from staff, counselor?

Um we could leave it at that for now because stuff's you know, yeah.

Madam President.

Uh before I come back to you, Councilor Rogers.

There's uh counselor Backer, did you have something else?

You do go ahead, and then I have something as well, and then I'll still circle back.

Thank thank you, Madam President.

Um I look at this amendment, and that that's a spreadsheet, it should be updated every month.

Generating that should be easy.

Um every month is a lot.

I'll give it that quarterly is fine.

Um, I think the reason we have so many amendments is I don't know what the give and take was during the last eight months.

I I would like to have been part of that.

Um so you have to tell me if something's a give and take at this point.

Um and then I have to make a decision at this point.

But I think that's part of the problem that we're having tonight is why we have so many amendments because we just didn't have the time to work on this.

But I do want to give some credit to our staff.

They put together some study sessions for us.

I thought that was very, very helpful.

So thank you.

Um yeah, that's that's all I have to say on this one.

Thank you.

Okay, uh, and madam CAO.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, we have a resolution that you all passed related to uh grant reporting already, and we could update that requirements of that, which is biannually to now that we provide, and we could I'm just trying to think of a place that this fits already.

We already are doing a biannual report to city council.

Sorry, Madam President, Councilor Rogers, um, that could include all of this information in that report and update how we do that, if that would be acceptable.

It's just an option to consider since we already have that and under resolution.

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I think for me, it's about having as much information where we're doing the budget um as possible.

And I think there's been times where funds have been moved in here, we don't know what's happening with them, and that would really help us with the overall budget process.

I think that for my intent, this is about the budget and knowing what the city has as a whole for the budget.

So I I think that's why I asked the team to put it in the budget ordinance.

Um, because for me, this is just about gathering as much information so we can make good decisions about the budget.

Um so I think I'll keep it here and see how the vote goes and make some decisions over the next two weeks based on the vote.

Thank you, Madam President.

I just want to circle back.

Uh, there's four spaces that I four places in this amendment that I see that monthly needs to be turned to quarterly or quarter uh to make sure, and then also counselor Bacca, you were the second on this before that change happened.

Are you still okay with being the second?

Yes.

Okay, that was a yes.

I mean, I know that on the on the first amendment that I had, it definitely I said that I'll come back and fine-tune a definition.

But this one to me seems like there's there's several things that I I struggle with.

I think the intention is good.

I also don't think it's necessarily for the budget ordinance when we have somewhere else for it to be.

So I'll probably wait to be able to support this one, but I do think the intention is right.

Uh, and I think that it just it needs a different home.

Uh, and and that's where I stand on it.

But any other questions or comments?

Councilor Rogers to close.

Thank you so much.

I heard your support.

Counselors, all those in favor of amendment number five to oh sixty-seven, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

I I didn't see I did you see?

Can you put your hand up and keep your hand up?

Okay.

And all those opposed that passes on a 5-4.

Moving on to amendment number six.

This is labeled as F, Counselors Rogers and Bacca.

Thank you, Madam President.

For amendment, what do we call this?

F Counselor, it's sorry, it's really hard to hear you over here.

Uh okay, so thank you, Madam President.

Floor amendment number F.

The following section after section 211-16.

I won't read through the whole thing, but I will read the explanation.

This amendment establishes that the city council and council services staff shall have direct read-only access to financial systems data and calculation methodologies used by administration for budget development and fiscal monitoring.

It places into ordinance a standing requirement for the administration to provide requested financial information and clarifies that access applies throughout the year.

The amendment specifies that the access is non-modifiable and limited to viewing and that both branches are responsible for maintaining secure use of financial systems and data consistent with city policies.

There's a motion for amendment number six.

There's a second by Councilor Rogers.

Counselor Councilor Rogers, do you have anything more to add to open or should we go to questions?

Questions from counselors?

Admin.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um I uh again, having not seen this in advance, um, our team scanned it as quickly as possible.

Um, and I mentioned, I think, to counselor Rogers before right before the break, um, we would like to have a dislike look through this to understand better the intent.

Um, you know, working dot papers and drafts when staff is working on um crafting information and not knowing if it's accurate yet.

Um we would want to be very clear that that when we have not had supervisory, you know, review of the document and things along those lines.

Um this almost implies like working documents and and other things that we may be using to build information would be expected, and in as long that that's our my first initial reaction without having gone through this with um real clarity or discussion with with the counselors and the sponsors.

Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I think the the intent of this is to make sure that we have access to all the things, and that's why we named out specific systems that we use.

Um, because our staff has been told no to view only access for things we've asked for.

And so as the body over the budget, for me it was alarming to hear a flat out no, you can't have this.

And so I I know our budget team can go in more in depth if you have questions about what access that was.

We can send you the emails.

Um, but for me it's not acceptable that we don't have at least I I agree we shouldn't be editing, we shouldn't be in there moving things and meddling.

Um, but we should definitely have read-only, view-only access to our financial systems, period.

Thank you, Madam President.

Mr.

Whelan.

Madam President, Council Rogers, your staff currently does have access to the DSS tables people saw and other things that we use.

Uh, I believe there was a meeting not too long ago where they were provided Counselor Lewis with some information that came straight out of the DSS tables.

So they do have access.

Uh we don't know if they have access to the budget system, but we can look into that.

But that is coming.

And so uh I think if they would like to work with us, we could help train them to or teach them on what they might be trying to pool because they may not work with it as much as we do, but they do have access.

Thank you, Madam President.

I'll go to our team to discuss what access we have, and we've talked about this in depth.

Um, and maybe you know, look.

I'm pretty sure you guys want to cover that, what we have access to and what we don't.

Ms.

Rommer, Councilor President, Counselor Rogers.

I believe you're referring to an instance where we asked uh for a specific DSS table, which is pulling data directly from our people's office system, um, and we were told that we could misinterpret that data and that we were not allowed to have access to it.

Thank you, Madam President.

That is in writing, so we'll be happy to forward that over if you like.

Um but again, I think the point has been made, bottom line is we need access.

We'll be happy to sit with this passes, sit with your team and go through what access we have and don't, and which what we need and don't, um, so we can make sure we're all on the same page.

But I think that was my close, unless there's other you know, Madam President.

Okay, just I'm gonna before we get to a close.

I want to make sure the counselors, any other questions or comments.

All right, we will take that as a close.

So all those in favor of amendment number six to 067, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

All those opposed that passes on a six-three.

Moving on to amendment number seven.

Uh, counselor champagne.

It's labeled G in your packets, counselors.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh, beginning on page 10, line 19, amend section 217 C is followed.

It's to remove uh a sentence in there to the extent that it does not impede the mayor's budget staff from compelling or compiling the proposed budget by the deadline.

That is all there's a motion.

Is there a second?

There's a second by counselor grout.

Counselors, any questions or comments?

Anything from the admin, Madam CAO.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, I guess uh counselor champagne, I just I guess I'd like to understand um you know, based upon the individuals providing the information and the information being uh the same staff potentially trying to compile the budget and having to then um seek out additional information.

I guess I would be surprised that it would be a concern if we were expressed that it would delay the budget preparation if someone was peeled off to do something.

Counselor I'm not quite sure I understand the question, Madam CAO, um Madam President, Counselor Champagne.

I the way I read the sentence that struck is to say that we um will provide information and make sure that we're we're timely in providing information as long as it does not impede the budget staff's ability to complete the budget in on deadline.

So I just I don't I I guess I just don't understand why we wouldn't want to give the opportunity for budget staff to say, hey, we're not gonna make the deadline on the budget if we do this.

That's kind of why I want it removed in the sense that I want it more black and white because it's it's a request of this of all these steps that we're asking the administration to do and to share information, and I can see that sentence being one of a excuse of why things aren't done.

This is going to impede.

And to be honest with you, you can tell me, and the budget staff can tell me and tell this body that this is going to impede, and there's really no way for us to check that response other than trusting you.

So if you don't like it to give us this information, you can use that as a blanket excuse on why you're not going to do it.

So that's why I saw removing it, Mr.

Whalen.

Um Madam President and Council Champlain, I think from this perspective, we already just passed amendment, I believe it was D, which is requiring us to provide a certain section of questions that we answer every year.

And then we have the second round, which are the department specific questions, and I think those are where the questions can be asked per department, and they can be specifically for each department and specifically to each area of the budget.

So I think this and trying to provide it within five business days could be done within you guys' submission to the departments of your questions, and it's already being done.

There are two rounds of questions.

What we just passed earlier says we're just gonna do this because we do it every year, and we do the same seven questions, and then we wait to hear from counselors and council staff for department specific questions.

So I think it it's already being done in that process.

You can ask questions, counselor?

So if it's already being done, then removing this isn't gonna be an issue.

Was was that a question?

Yes, it is.

Okay, Madam CAO.

Um, Madam President, Councilor Champagne.

Um my comments are I think these comments come from the practical application of what happens when we're in the budget process and when the questions come through.

When we we just passed an amendment that as um uh DCAO White Wayland indicated um that we will have seven days to answer to provide the answers to those that map the prime primary questions.

So just for practicality, you the question could come through on day two uh while we're working on compiling all of the information during that seven day, and we would need to we would be in a position that we need to use the same staff to go and answer these questions within five days at the same time that we're trying to make sure we answer the other questions within the seven days.

So it's just a practical application of the life of like you're talking about a limited staff all working to a process and ensuring that we are meeting expectations for information sharing.

So it feels a little regimented in the sense of like you have five days to get come back with whatever questions we come up with.

We could have from council services staff and counselors, you know, 15 different people providing questions for 28 different part departments.

I mean, we just it it just starts to feel a little bit like this is tight if we are also already currently working on answering the questions that we're working on.

So that is all we're trying to get at is kind of this practical reality of when we are in that time frame and how much we are compiling and putting together and providing um in our processes fully open to the prospect of that we should provide information and in good faith and provide correct clear answers if it is an issue with providing it within um you know a reasonable period of time, Council Champagne.

Thank you, madam president.

Any other questions I'm sorry, I apologize that's okay.

Knowing the process that this is going through, um I'm gonna move to withdraw this at this time.

Amendment number seven has been withdrawn.

We will move on to amendment number eight, which is labeled H in your packet.

Oh no, I'm sorry, yes.

Sorry.

We're gonna move on to amendment number eight labeled H in your packet, Counselors Lewis, Rogers, and Sanchez.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh move forward amendment number eight, right?

Yes, okay.

There's a motion, is there a second?

There's a second from Councillor Sanchez.

Counselor Lewis.

Uh I think, Madam President, this amendment clarifies how salaries for certain unclassified employees directly responsible.

The mayor to be reflected in the budget, requires that the salaries of division managers and higher level unclassified positions directly selected by the mayor or chief staff.

Or CAO be budgeted within the mayor's office or the office of the administrative chief minister and officer.

Amendment also requires the office of management and budget to report these salaries in the draft proposed budget, ensures that updated organizational charts are provided with the budget.

Whenever changes occur in reporting structures for these positions, and Madam President, these were pretty similar to what we required of the of the uh admin last year, as far as in you know we created an org chart that reflected this.

Um we actually had an amendment to last year's budget that um uh that uh uh you know made the budget reflect this as well.

So but you know, this is formalizes.

All right, counselors.

There's a motion and a second.

Are there any other questions or comments?

How about from the admin Madam President?

Thank you.

Um totally reflect understand that this was um the update that occurred in the budget process.

I just have a small reflection on the fact that it feels it um unusual to me that for instance the director of parks and recreations um salary would be not included in the uh budget for the department of parks and recreation and those deputies and um uh so we understand the full cost of operating the parks and rec department, um, and that would obviously be deputy directors as well and management positions in there.

I think understanding the total cost of each of the uh operating budgets for the departments is incredibly valuable for all of us.

Um I understand the in what I think I understand of the intent from count um the counselor from this uh sponsor of this amendment is this sense that these positions are appointed or unclassified positions and therefore um at the direction of the CAO and the um mayor.

Um I would say that you know the administration of the city is at the direction of the CAO.

Um all positions, I mean we're operating under um that today.

Um, and so it feels a little bit like it's actually not as transparent as the intent, which is around this idea of understanding what the cost is to run each of the departments and these positions specifically stated directly operate those departments and uh the staff report to them.

Madam President, and that's fair.

I honestly didn't uh that's a good point to be honest.

Um I I think what we were our intent was in that last time was to um uh looking at the organizational chart, um, and I and that we probably should exclude the department directors from the mayor's office budget.

Um if we need to if we need to withdraw this for now and add it later, I'm fine with that too if you guys are so counselors.

Any questions or comments?

I mean, uh Madam Chair, Madam President, um Mr.

Moscow is unless you think there's an easy fix to that right now.

Mr.

Motsko, Ms.

Rumler.

Let's work on it.

We'll we'll uh yeah, I'll I'll withdraw.

Okay, so amendment did you have something to add, Madam Vice President?

So um thank you, Madam President.

So my question is is that I think um CO Sengle kind of alluded to it, is that you know we have the mayor's office, we want to find out who is getting paid from the mayor's office, and then you know, um, but then yet the CAO, everyone's under the CAO.

That's really the way it works.

Like, so the mayor's office doesn't necessarily have all this staff, so just trying to identify people that actually report to the mayor's office, they kind of already do via the CAO, like the entire city reports to the to the CAO, but we want to find specific people that respond to the mayor.

I I just find it like interesting how so I I I mean Miss Cooladon, can you help me with that?

Because just when you talk about organizational structure and our so I kind of catching my drift of like how do we identify people who are gonna specifically work for the mayor when the CAO works for the mayor, and everybody in the city is under the CAO.

So I'm just having a hard time with that.

And I know we're trying to do something budgetary because you know we're really trying to find out who is reporting, but and I understand the concern from our staff and and everyone else.

It's just that it is if you can kind of help me walk through that first, and then I'll finish my second thought.

Thank you, Madam President.

Ms.

Gluidon.

Madam President, Madam Vice President.

I think I do I do follow the point you're making that um it's hard to suss out who exactly works beneath the mayor, when we have the CAO as the intermediary between the rest of the employees of the city.

And so I think that that's certainly something that we can look at addressing um as we maybe revise this um amendment going forward to really capture truly the people who work directly with the mayor's office and not all the department directors, deputy directors, all those other people that are sort of the below the the CAO as the in-between.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

So um maybe if the sponsors would wait till the next meeting so that maybe we can work with the administration to try to I believe counselor that they're planning on he counselors are gonna withdraw it for now so that they can hear that.

I'm sorry, apologize.

Yes.

And then counselor People Corn.

Thank you, Madam President.

Lots of time to work on this, but I I did want to just say the conversation that we had during the budget process last year that kind of I'm assuming is the basis for this, was around um direct reports that are embedded in departments.

And so I think there's language that says a direct deport direct report that is in a department that is not a deputy director or a department director.

Um that's what we were trying to get at during the budget process last year, where there was like, whoa, this person is in the legal department, but reports directly to the CAO, and that is very very weird.

And so I think that the direct report excluding department directors and deputy department directors would be the language that would make sense to me, but um lots of lots of time to think about it.

Councilor Lewis, Madam President.

We're I think we're all on the same page.

And I think rather than trying to work on this tonight and and do that, we'll give some time to do that.

And if if we think we have something that reflects uh what we're all talking about tonight, we'll reintroduce it.

So I'll withdraw the amendment.

All right, amendment number eight has been withdrawn.

We are on amendment number nine in your packets labeled I, Councillor Lewis.

Uh Madam President, I move amendment number nine.

There's a motion and a second by councillor Champagne or Rogers, I think is who I heard, Councillor Lewis.

And Madam President, uh, just an amendment that clarifies that the mayor's proposed budget submitted under 2117 is a draft and is subject to review and amendment by the council.

I just think it's some better language.

Um, moving forward, um, help people have a better understanding of the budget process.

Um, you know, the mayor's budget could very well be the budget that's passed, and um most of the time there's there's uh many amendments to it, it's not the it's not the final budget, and sometimes in some years there's an entirely different budget that's uh introduced and and sometimes passed, and so um I think it just gives us a little bit better language.

Counselors, any questions on amendment number nine?

Anything from Madman, Madam CAO?

Thank you, Madam President.

Um uh counselor Lewis, uh, wanting to make sure I understand when I read this from and I I'm not an attorney, so um, but when I read this, um a mayor's draft proposed budget would imply that it's still in draft form from the mayor, and when we send it down, it's uh it's his it's our final proposed budget to council.

And so I I think that I think the way it reads implies that that it's a a draft by the that it isn't the final, and again, I'm not I'm not trying to split hairs.

I just don't want it to be implied that then we would have another proposed budget that isn't in draft form to be sent down or anyone else to think that that is what it implies.

Counselor Lewis?

Madam President, I understand what you're saying.

I I don't I don't think it means that, but I understand what you're saying.

I think it's I think it's good language that just clarifies what it is.

Uh even though it's the mayor's it could be a a draft, a final draft, it's still uh it's still a draft until it's um passed by the council.

So counselors, any other questions or comments?

I miss key for Miss Coolidon legally speaking.

I know the the CAO had mentioned she's not a lawyer about this.

Is there anything legally speaking that we should be concerned about with this?

Um Madam President, you know, I think the ordinance in its current form and in the revised form lays out a process or the mayor sends down a budget and the council can make amendments and the council uh passes a final.

So I think regardless of the terminology you use here, that's that's the process.

Um I sort of agree that uh I think of the mayor's proposed budget as a as one document, and then there are amendments, but that you always have that original that you can refer back to to say, like, well, if this is what was changed along in the process, um, but I think this is all just terminology, and it's up to the council.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

So I have a question because that it kind of concerns me because if it's in draft form, does that mean that the mayor has an opportunity to change it after it's sent down because it's in draft and it's not his proposed budget.

So, madam president, madam vice president.

I mean, I read the current ordinance and the revised ordinance to absolutely not allow that.

That's the mayor sends down a budget and then it's in the council's hands.

Um I guess the question for you all is does this introduce some ambiguity in in the process?

Um, thank you, madam president.

I I kind of think it does, but um thank you.

Councilor Lewis.

Um, excuse me.

Councilor Lewis, Madam President, I was just gonna say that the so I think we're um we're not gonna get sued over it, so I'll I'll close.

That's my closing.

All right.

The motion is for amendment number nine to oh sixty-seven.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anybody opposed?

That passes on an eight-one vote.

We're moving on to amendment number 10, labeled J in your packets.

This is Councilor Lewis.

Uh Madam Chair, I or Madam President, I move amendment nine or ten.

There's a motion and a second for amendment ten by counselor rogers.

Counselor Lewis.

And Madam President, I mean there's there's just one line.

Mayor's proposed operating budget shall not include any negative programmatic appropriations.

Um just a quick explanation.

The amendment clarifies that the mayor's proposed budget um may not include negative programmatic appropriations in the previous budget submissions.

The proposed budgets include entries such as program savings or similar negative appropriations.

The amendment specifies that such entries are not permitted, and that all appropriations, including the budget, must reflect actual program level funding.

I think that just provides a lot of clarity to the budget because it's not a those those those line items aren't necessary parts of the budget.

Um it's uh this is what we intend to spend.

Um I think it better re reflects um item B there um where um uh these are the programs, this is the budget, um, and it it it meets all the required justifications.

Um and here's the cost of it, here's what we're planning to spend, um, and doesn't reflect really what a program savings is kind of like an average of you know what what that budget was over the last 10, 20 years or the last two years.

I mean, it could be anything.

Um you can imagine if we were to start a just just reset.

I mean, sometimes it's it reset.

Imagine the first budget of the city council that the city council ever made its first budget, the first um budget that the mayor ever sent down, uh never had any program savings in it, you know, because there weren't any from the year before.

And so all it is is uh is language to be able to provide some comparisons that I think are just unnecessary.

Counselors, questions or comments?

Anything from the administration?

No.

Mr.

Whalen?

Uh Madam President, Councilor Lewis.

I think having just received this and reading through it with all the other amendments, we're still trying to to understand and read through what this amendment will be doing, and we'd be happy to discuss and work with you on this.

Uh, but it's like I said, we just received it, so we're not fully understanding what it is.

Counselor.

Any other questions or comments?

Councilor to close?

Uh move approved.

Urger support.

There is a motion for amendment number 10 to 067.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

Is that eight nine zero?

Correct?

Eight zero.

Thanks.

Eight zero.

Thank you, everyone.

Moving on to amendment number eleven, counselor Lewis and Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um I forgot the number, I'm so sorry.

Amendment number we're on 11.

11.

Thank you.

That's okay.

Um is beginning on page 10, line 11, amending section 2-11-7B, preparation of the city budget, department requests budget proposal as follows.

We're just inserting counselors and council services.

This just amends it to include that councillors can be involved and attend any budget hearings we see fit.

Thank you, Madam President.

I did I move it already?

I moved it.

Yes.

There's a motion for amendment number 11.

Is there a second?

There's a second from Councilor Champagne.

Any counselor feeblecorn?

Thank you, Madam President.

Just a question perhaps for Ms.

Coolidon.

How does this work if we have a quorum?

These are not noticed a meetings.

And so just how would that legitimately be portrayed to the public?

Madam President, Councilor Feeblecorn.

So this wouldn't be a typical public meeting.

That would be noticed and open to members of the public.

Thank you, Madam President.

I mean, I think learning about the budget and here having hearings about the budget sounds kind of like public business to me.

So I maybe I can go to the city attorney for a clarification as well.

Yeah, Madam President, Council of Feeblecorn.

I I have seen people do the notice of potential quorum.

I think that the concern that is that you raised is that it is clearly a discussion on a topic that you're later going to vote on.

So I'm not sure that's going to work in that situation.

We're actually dealing with this right now, where when you have a preliminary meeting that violates the OMA, and then you later have a meeting.

Thank you, Madam President.

I I agree that the you can notice things like you know, there's a party that five of us are gonna go to.

Um I've seen that done at the public regulation commission at other places like that, but it's never been for work related topics, and this is clearly a work-related topic.

So I'm just um that makes me incredibly nervous.

I would be fine if it was, you know, counselors can send their policy analysts, right?

Um, because then we would not be kind of getting in potential trouble around the open meetings act.

Counselor Lewis.

I mean, we do this all the time.

I guess we could just say up to three or up to we do something like that.

We're just I mean, I obviously we're kind of assuming here that we're gonna abide by all the rules is what we're doing.

So I mean, we're not we're not assuming in a bill that we're gonna violate a uh you know, a law, and so I don't think it's just like we don't have to write in into every single law that we make that we're not gonna violate all of our other laws.

So I think that's the the pointer.

Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, and I would just add to that we can have processes within our own department that would make sure you know to make sure to extend the invitation in an appropriate way so we don't rule mess up the quorum.

And I'm I think that works either defining the amount of number and or council staff so that counselors can send folks on behalf, but I'm one that would like to sit in on some of these myself.

Um, and so I don't want to break rules, but I think we can come up with processes so that we can make sure we don't.

Thank you.

Madam Vice President.

Thank you, Madam President.

So a question for our attorneys, either one or council and um so this kind of gives me the impression that I mean we have a committee of the whole chair who does the business of the budget.

That's our representative for the budget with the mayor's office and the budget staffs.

So then if we say that our counselors can be in all budget the budget meetings, then are we just do we not need a committee the whole chair?

And we just have budget.

So for me, it's not even a matter of like breaking quorum, it's just a matter of then we're it just seems so much messier to try to.

I like having a representative that we all voted on and have the confidence in is gonna do our work and put together some kind of draft for between the administration and the council.

Um then, you know, because we're all in those meetings.

I mean, if I'm there and knowing what I know, then I'm gonna be, you know, our our designee may have a way that she's headed with the budget, and then I just kind of mess it all up because I have these other ideas of what so I guess my question to our attorneys is does that blur those lines?

Cluidon?

Madam President, Madam Vice President.

I think if we're setting aside the quorum discussion, it becomes a policy choice for you as counselors if um you feel it's more efficient to hold committee of the whole meetings versus attending these budget hearings.

Um all nine of you having the option to do that.

I think that that's sort of just an efficiency question for for you all.

Ms.

Keith.

Um thank you, Madam President, Madam Vice President.

Currently, the council staff who attend the budget hearings don't participate, they just sit and observe, and I believe then prepare the report to you.

So I mean, my my expectation was counselors would do the same, they wouldn't participate in and be asking questions during that hearing, they would ask their questions during the committee of the whole hearing.

And before I go back, I'm gonna I'm gonna and I will get to the admin.

I just want to add in my two cents on this.

That I it's not a separation of powers thing, but I feel like just in my gut, it kind of just feels that way.

Where I'm like, let the mayor propose his budget or her budget, whenever that may be.

Let them propose it, let them eat cake.

I don't know.

Let it happen, let our staff go, and then let us chew it all up and amend it and make it how it's ours.

Um, and that's that's kind of how I see that.

Um but with that, I'm gonna go to admin and then back to council Rogers.

Madam President, thank you.

Um this is a it is interesting because it isn't a separation of powers on the on the surface, but it at some point it implies that in the development of the budget, the executive function never has the ability to have a meeting to discuss the budget without city councillors present, um, is what this is implying to me, and that to me is a concern in the sense that you know that today they are um labeled, which I questioned when I got here, like why are they called this?

And I got a great explanation, um, CAO's budget here um hearings, so that we have an opportunity to have discussion uh with the directors as we are building out and finalizing that budget.

Um so I'm not sure if this is an expectation that there will be a separate um uh what this causes is for there to have to be additional meetings so that we have the ability to have discussions in the executive function to be able to build a budget.

Um we already have um the hearings with council of staff there, um council services staff, and and as uh city attorney indicated, you know, they don't participate in the process.

Um I don't know, it just feels really um different than you know, staff have being part of a discussion in terms of of this process.

Council Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President, and I appreciate all that.

I think for me being here now as a counselor for two budget cycles, there's not a lot of collaboration on council uh outside of CAW.

Um the cow chair, like you said, does all the things we get the budget, the your the cow's budget, you know, the when it gets published for everybody else in legistar.

We don't have the option to even I haven't maybe I'm just not the one included in these conversations, but we I don't I other than the two cow chairs that I've had have said to me, what would you like for your reoccurring spending?

That's it.

I don't get asked by any of the cow chairs so far any ideas for the budget, any ideas for department changes, any I get none, I can ask none of that.

And so for me, the intent is that next year we're gonna have some very tough budget decisions to make straight up.

We're gonna have very tough budget decisions to make.

And if we're not able to collaborate with the administration, council to come up with real answers to the tough questions and things we're gonna have to deal with next budget cycle.

That's I think for me the intent of this is we I want to foster more collaboration.

So to hear that the administration, you know, it doesn't want council involved in all the conversations about the budget.

I understand, but it doesn't foster the transparency and the collaboration that I feel like we need to be able to make those tough decisions as a team.

Um, and right now I haven't felt that just as just something maybe we can work on, or someone can clue me in on those conversations.

But for me, that's the intent for me.

Here is we are gonna have to make some tough decisions, and if we don't have all of the information and collaborating as a whole, like the committee of the whole supposed to, I think that's my intent, and that would be what I want to impart about why this uh amendment is important to me.

Counselor counselor, madam president, counselor, um, thank you for this amendment.

I understand the intent, but I think that's what study sessions could be for, you know, why we're learning where we can have those conversations.

I do understand how administration has their own um in you know meetings together, and and this right now, we wouldn't be able if if this were to pass, we couldn't all we could do is listen.

We wouldn't be able to have those collaborative conversations.

So that would not be what you want.

Um, but at a study session, we could have those conversations and get more out.

Yeah, Madam President, I appreciate that because this we wrote this before we knew that amendment was coming.

Yeah, so I think um I think you know, writing this before we knew there was going to be study sessions, I think that's a great point.

Um so I would look to counselor lewis to see if we want to stick with the study sessions, or what do you think?

I don't mind withdrawing it for now.

I mean, I think it just came out it truly did come out of some discussions over you know the the budget of the whole meetings and um how oftentimes um even at the budget of the committee of the whole meetings we're we're um you know we're kind of scrapping for information and you know, and um so you know I mean it's fine.

I mean that that was the intent of that.

Um I get I would ask though, so I'm fine with withdrawing it, but um I I would ask uh um you know our staff really is should be seen as like our as us, you know.

I mean, I think they're truly you know us as well, they represent us, and um you know we're we're married in that sense that if you're talking to them, you're talking to us, and so that's why I felt like you know if counselor wanted to go and be a part of that and listen to, I mean, maybe it would be more productive.

So that's kind of my my my point on that.

And then I would ask, I guess if we showed up to one of those, would you kick us out?

I don't know.

I mean, anyway, I mean that'd be kind of weird, you know.

I mean, it seems like I mean there's no law prohibiting us from right, or is there anyways?

Whatever.

I'm fine, I'll withdraw.

Uh there is still another counselor if it's all right.

I'm gonna go to counselor champagne before we withdraw.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, if you guys the sponsors would to withdraw it, that's fine.

I I would hope that it does not go away.

Um my fellow counselor talked about it being the second budget.

We're talking a massive budget with uh in the size of it and the intricacies of government that um myself I would attend these, not to um talk or or have influence on it, but the sense of understanding and learning.

Um if you could attend these meetings and understand what the department is presenting and requesting and in the inner workings of that, it helps me personally uh as a counselor to better understand the budget to be able to vote on it and and make amendments or not make amendments, but understand where they're coming from.

So I think the counselor, the the sponsor's idea is a share of information and understanding so that we could be uh a better body and a better government.

So I would I would like to see this come back if you're not if you are gonna withdraw.

Okay, counselor Rogers, and let's use this as the close right before I think it sounds like a withdrawal.

Yeah, I just have a question.

Does the uh thank you, Madam President?

Does the cow attend these now?

The cow doesn't go to any of these budget hearings now.

Okay, thank you, madam president.

Are we sticking with the withdrawal?

I just want to make sure to circle back for a final.

We can draw.

We still have the ability to think to come out with some and and that might even be the solution that we say that the chair, maybe the chair involved in those.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay, so amendment number 11 has been withdrawn.

We are moving on to amendment number 12.

I don't have them in my packet, but I know that I believe they're on your iPads.

Maybe you have them in your packet.

It seems oh, I yeah, I I don't have I'm done with them.

I'm going home.

Just teasing.

I have it in my I have it in my iPad, but amendment number uh number 12 is Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um I'd like to move amendment number 12, amending section two-11-11A, conference committee on the budget paragraph as follows.

Um we are uh striking some language and saying the conference committee on the budget shall consist of six members, three members shall include the mayor, chief administrative officer, and one additional designee of the mayor.

Three members shall include council president, chair of the committee of the whole, and an additional designee of the council.

This amendment specifies which members should be included in the conference committee on the budget.

There's a motion for amendment number 12.

Is there a second?

There's a second from Councillor Champagne.

Uh Councilor Rogers, did you want to continue with an open?

Thank you, Madam President.

I just in our briefing about this bill.

I just thought that we should even that out a little bit more.

And um, so I urge support.

Counselors, any questions uh or comments on amendment number 12.

Counselor February.

Thank you, Madam President.

So um just clarification.

The three members should include the council president, the COW chair, and one additional designee of the council.

So we could only have one of our budget staff on that conference committee.

Is that the I'm that's the way I'm reading it?

Okay.

Um that seems a little strange to me.

Um, I would I would prefer that it be the um the cow chair and then whoever the cow chair thinks should be on there, and then I would like to ask a question of the administration.

Um would the mayor want to be on this committee?

Um, or might he prefer to have you and two experts?

Madam CAO.

Um, Madam Chair, Councilor People Corn.

Um, I agree that having expertise in the room related to the budget is super is very helpful.

I I do want to point out that um the charter actually already states who will be um on the this in this committee, and that to change the membership, I think would require a charter amendment.

Ms.

Keefe.

No, thank you, Councilor President.

I would say more specifically that the charter gives the mayor the ability to make his appointments.

Um so I don't think the council can by ordinance say who he's gonna send.

He gets to pick who he sends counselors.

Any other questions or comments?

Counselor Rogers to close.

Thank you, Madam President.

I would think we need to clean this one up too.

So just looking at the team, just want to go to the team, and I think we should move to withdraw so we can work on this with the team because I'm I need to understand that first.

There is a withdrawal of amendment number 12.

We're on to amendment number 13, which is labeled M in your packets.

Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um I would like to move amendment number 13.

Looking number 13.

Amend section 2-11-3 process and sequence for establishing goals and objectives.

Um, I won't read the whole thing, but you know, I've over the last two years talked a lot about the goals, need to have a metric so that we know if the department is meeting those goals.

So this amendment requires that all five-year goals and one year objectives include measurable indicators that allow the city council to evaluate progress towards achieving them.

It also requires that the administration provide annual reporting on these indication indicators as part of the existing status report.

The amendment establishes a consistent method for documenting and reviewing performance data associated with the adoption and objectives.

The amendment ref references the biannual community condition information provided by our indicators progress commission and clarifies that this information may be used when selecting or evaluating measurable indicators.

There's a motion for amendment number 13.

Is there a second?

Second from Councilor Grout.

Any questions or comments, Counselors from the admin?

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, I think that this resolution, not having seen it in advance, but having had previous discussions, um, and I guess we'll want to preview it and make sure we understand all of the intents, but it aligns with our discussions around how measurement within our uh goals is valuable and and helpful for us to be able to know what we are measuring based on those goals.

So we'll we'll continue to review if we have any concerns just because we haven't had a chance to record.

Any other questions or comments, counselors?

Councilor Rogers to close.

Thank you so much.

I urge your support.

The motion is for amendment number 13 to 067.

All those in favor raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on a nine-zero vote.

As far as I know, this is the end of the amendments for 067.

Does that does anyone else have an additional amendment?

No.

Okay, so we're gonna move to general or to public comment.

Thank you, Madam President.

We have Tad Numitsky.

Excuse me.

What do we do?

Council.

Huh?

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Well, just a second.

Okay.

Seems like we are moving on.

Counselors, we are back on O sixty-seven as substituted and amended.

Any additional questions?

Oh Mr.

Nomensky, do you have comment for this?

Uh yes, I do.

Okay, please proceed.

Well, here is start this way.

I remember I'm not sure.

If Calaverish remember when first houses was built, I don't think so.

I'll do it older than you.

I won't as subcontractor for developer.

So from El Paso Texas.

Who was coming to the builder from meetings?

I was the member too.

And we even have a drink after the meeting.

One or two.

So then we had also director.

That's Mr.

Votes.

Charlie Vaught.

No nuns as a guy.

I remember when I picking up pyramids and so on.

One time.

He walked to me and you gotta do it now.

That's the people we had in government.

Moving around.

Now what we have been government.

Government is in touch with people.

City become too big and too powerful.

Too big into powerful.

For the people.

That basically I want to say thank you.

Okay.

Now, counselors, we are back on O sixty-seven as substituted and amended.

Any questions or comments?

Councilor People Corn.

Thank you, Madam President.

Couple of questions.

Um and I apologize.

I know this bill was introduced like um 11 months and two weeks ago.

Um, but I have not yet heard this bill.

So um I just have a couple questions so that I can prepare for the next meeting.

Uh first one's on page nine, um, where we talk about the council um shall meet as the committee of the whole and hold um public hearings as needed.

And then on page 14, it says that we shall schedule at least three public hearings.

And so I'm just curious what why we struck three off of page nine, um, but we m kept it on page 14 anyone can answer that question.

I agree.

I think they're reviewing Mr.

Motsko, Ms.

Rumler, Ms.

Brokaw.

Madam President, uh Councillor People Corn, uh, we did move that.

Um it might be an oversight, but we in on page 14 on section 2110.

We do see we do say uh shall schedule at least three public hearings regarding its adoption as the committee of the whole.

So we're setting up the committee of the whole, and then a little bit later we say we want the three public meetings still.

So it was just moving it a little bit within the ordinance.

Okay, thank you, madam president.

So we struck three, and then we left three, and that was on purpose.

Got it.

Um so we will still have three committee of the whole meetings every year under the way it's written now.

Madam President, Council Fueblecorn, I'm I apologize.

Can you repeat the question?

The way it's written now, we will always have three committee of the whole meetings.

Council Bessant.

Madam President Basson, Councillor Fublecorn, yes.

Uh as Ms.

Koulidon just reminded me, this allows us to have the study sessions and other special meetings that we might want to have with IPC, other groups that when we uh have public input on the budget, but this specifically still requires the three committee of the whole meetings that we usually have, but it does allow the council as a body to have other special meetings prior to the committee of the whole.

Okay.

I mean, they both say committee the whole, so I don't think we are counting against other things, but thank you.

Um Madam President, my other question, my next question is on page 12, um, line starting on line one.

There's this whole paragraph about a separate strategy for motor coach and paratransit operators, mechanics, vehicle cleaners.

Um I would love to understand why this paragraph is included in here, Miss Rumler.

I think Council President, Councilor Feblecorn, in the original ordinance as it stands today, um, 2110 is program strategies that is word for word, the exact same language.

It was amended back in 2023, and that was kept per the sponsor's request.

But we adjusted it into an appropriate section instead of making it its own.

So it's just moved from another section to here, correct.

Um, and then does it still make sense to have the enterprise fund paying the salaries of security officers since we've moved transit security to APD?

I believe that's a policy decision.

Is the intent of this legislation to make sure that that the transit security officers are still paid for out of the transit um enterprise fund?

Madam Vice President, as the sponsor of the legislation, did you want to clarify as to the intent and so that we can figure out what this might fall?

Yes, thank you, um, Madam President.

So I think the intent was that.

So I think that's an oversight on our part, so it's I think it's something that we need to definitely look at.

Um, when we moved it, it was just kind of putting it in its appropriate place without um the oversight of really where it's going to be funded out of, because you make a very good point that now that it's at APD, maybe that's where so um I think that's something that we can address when we bring this back.

Thank thank you, Madam President, Madam Vice President.

Um it sounds like the administration might have something to say on this, so I would love to hear their thoughts as well.

Madam Cam President and um Council Fible Corn.

Um I think Councillor Penny is accurate.

We can obviously make change based upon this.

Um I just checked um the transit security officers uh the funding is transferred from transit to APD to pay those salaries, so it is allocated based upon the fact that it's in our budget um ordinance today.

Um so we could permanently make that shift, obviously, then it wouldn't need to be uh articulated this way, but that is how those transit security officers um salaries, a portion of them are paid um through transit to APD to cover that.

It also out accounts for the fact that we do have security contracts, which are not salaries necessarily, but contracts that are also paid by transit.

So we could clean this up in a way that makes more sense for today's operations.

Great, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Um, and then last question is on page 14.

Um, and this is where we talk about um we're we're proposing to require the administration to provide printed copies of the budget, um, and there's a very strict timeline and all of those things, and I'm just curious um why that would be something that we would put on the administration.

If I need copies of something, I can certainly print it out.

So it sounds like this has been in you know in a negotiation for I don't know, 11 months and two weeks.

So um, can somebody tell me how that got negotiated?

Madam Vice President.

Um, thank you, Madam President.

So this is kind of an issue that's been got going ongoing when we have the budget cycle, is that when it gets sent down, um, by the time our staff has the opportunity to print it, it just doesn't get in all of your hands, and we just thought when they send it down, they can actually have it so that it's available to us all at the same time because that's not what's occurred in the past, and then it kind of reflects on the budget chair that the budget chair just didn't get it to everyone on time, or we had to wait two weeks, but sometimes it's because of the you know the printing and and getting it to everyone, even though we can get it in in our iPads, but some people um like the hard copy, and I I'll look to our madam president to our staff to kind of um talk about that whole negotiation.

Uh well, real quick, I as much as it pains you, counselor.

I love the paper binder, and I work with a lot of notes, post-it notes, highlighting, and everything in it, and I pretty much do not look at the budget until that hits my desk.

And I know that it seems as though there's been others in the past too, or even currently, but that's where it would be nice.

There's also been from my understanding, and when I was cow chair and everything, there's been a historical battle of who covers the cost, who does it, when is it coming down?

So uh I I do appreciate that this was added in there to clarify that um one way or the other.

But now I will go to Mr.

Motsko to answer Madam Vice President's comment slash question, which is about your comment slash question.

Uh Madam President Bassan, Vice President Penny, and Council People Corn, uh, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Uh two years ago, it was um a little bit of a surprise when the administration said that they weren't going to print any copies after decades of them providing uh printed copies to the council, and so we struggled mightily to to get that together.

Uh last year we were a little bit more prepared, and this just puts it back into the ordinance that it makes it clear that we would like them to print copies when requested from at least eight of the nine counselors.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, this does seem a little a little um micromanage and and uh take some of the person out personal responsibility off of us.

If I get a budget in electronic format and I don't want it in electronic format, I feel like I am an adult and I can therefore print it out.

But just I appreciate everybody giving me the background on that.

Thank you.

Madam CAO.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, this was discussed at length by back and forth between the staff.

Um, I think we um I I'm just gonna be completely transparent.

There's a significant staff in council services.

Seems that that whatever number of copies need to be made could be made and it could be made as however anybody wants them any time they want them.

And so I think our staff was just surprised at how much this has become such a bone of contention for us to make copies.

Um surprising just based upon the the level and availability of staff within council services, Madam Vice President.

Um thank you, Madam President.

So maybe there's something that we can correct in there that people can opt out, counselors can opt out because I know when we're saying this here and we're all going through what we're talking about now and how silly it sounds, but when you're the budget chair and you think that everyone received it because they got an email that they received the budget, and then you're two weeks later you're kind of making decisions, and then you have um counselors telling you, well, I didn't even get the budget, I didn't see it, it was you know, but they got it electronically.

I mean, these are the things that that happened.

So maybe there's a way to say that a counselor can just opt out, and so that it doesn't have to be printed, and that because sometimes by the time a counselor will get it printed for them, it's a little ways into the budget.

So um, I don't know, maybe we can fix that after we defer it and put it to where people can opt out.

And I think somebody um madam chairs questions.

Madam President, Madam Vice President.

I just wanted to pop in to say that that is already covered in the text of the uh the bill.

It says sufficient printed copies requested prior by city council of the of the budget shall be prepared by the administration.

So this would require that um we get um information from the nine of you about your preference for how you'd like to receive the the budget, whether that's electronic or printed.

Thank you, madam chair.

Council Peopleborn.

Any other questions, comments on 067?

Madam Vice President to close.

So I would like to um change the motion to uh deferral to the next council meeting, which is the 15th, December 15th.

December 15th.

I can't believe it.

December 15th.

Um make a motion for a deferral to there's a motion for a deferral to December 15th, and there's a second by Councillor Grout.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed?

That passes on an 8-0 vote.

Moving on to R 183, Councilor Lewis.

Thank you, Madam President.

I move R 183, which is establishing an emergency parks, grass and turf replacement funding source to address the dying turf grass and parks citywide.

There's a motion and a second by Councillor Grout.

Counselor Lewis to open.

Thank you, Madam President.

So I appreciate the uh you know the administration and and uh the director um uh we've had you know since we first introduced this, uh a lot of good conversations and and good headway, and and I just identifying um what what needs to be done uh with getting our our parks around the city all over the city um up to where they should be at this time of year, and and that was the biggest concern in the summertime at an opportunity where you could you could really lose a lot of our our parks, our turf, um I I think we were in a really dangerous situation, and I have a binder full of parks all around my district, I know all around the city, um, and the conclusion was that there was that we you know we just didn't get ahead of the weeds and and some of the watering and different things that happened.

Um and and it created really an emergency when it comes to our parks, because if we weren't able to, if we're not able to get them to where they're supposed to be at this time of year before the spring, um, then we know we create just a real a real crisis where we're having to replace and it costing a whole lot more money.

And so in those conversations with uh with the parks department, and I know uh director Simons has sent um you know several reports to us, you know, one uh a few weeks ago and then um one this afternoon, kind of give it an update.

Um and you know, and I appreciate the the efforts, you know, to um uh to to put you know time and resources that they have, you know, into it.

Uh what's clear, and I think by reading that and and looking at those reports, you can see um that we're still not where we need to be, and we won't know uh if if we're where we need to be until the spring.

Um we're just not gonna know that.

Uh and so, but we we do have an opportunity to um to to put some resources into it now, uh which fairly quickly, you know, um, where we could put some resources into uh to our parks to be able to give us a better opportunity to be able to not you know lose some of those turfs uh when you know this this next year comes.

So um and and just to just to I guess simplify um the the process that you know it's it's my understanding I think you are our staff really looking hard at uh uh the reversions that that uh came out in October.

Um the parts so so that we're we're talking about the 2025 uh budget year, which goes through June.

Uh so we're talking about money that was budgeted and spent through June of 2025.

That budget is over.

Um so we don't we we can't go back to June and and spend money and do the work that we could have done then, obviously.

Um and so really all we're doing right now with that budget is uh doing a final closing the books.

And so in October um it was reported, um you know, our our financial systems and the report showed that there's about 11.5 million dollars in reversions.

Um so uh again, what happens is when you have you know 11.5 million dollars in reversions, um, and then you have you know 11 million or 12 million dollars in overspending.

Um by I'm not saying that in a bad term, I'm just saying that some departments that spent more than they budgeted for, and so uh then you have a shift in order to close the books, you uh you know you take these reversions, you put them over here, and you get to uh closing the books with everything, you know, everything's paid for again.

It was paid for back in June, and it was done back in June.

So now we're doing book work um, you know, to to close the books on.

Um and and again, I would point out that the parks department reverted.

Well, I don't think I said this yet.

Out of that 11.5 million, uh the parks department reverted 2.4 million dollars.

It's just for one reason or another, uh, the parks department budgeted a certain amount, uh, spent you know, 2.4 million dollars less during that budget year.

Um, and you know again, you you could look at bring look at a lot of conclusions of maybe what were the effects of that.

Well, one of the effects of that was um could have been, I mean, whether it be personnel that we didn't have to be able to do that, uh, or resources at the time, or the time to be able to get our parks where they needed to be.

It just didn't happen.

And so again, the the math to this is um even after a reversion of 2.4 million dollars, that's probably what that's gonna look like when everything's closed.

And again, uh I believe all we're waiting on right now is uh is the audit, a state audit, um, which usually happens at the first of December.

Um by now, I mean we would we would have that, so I would expect that we would have that pretty quickly.

Um if after everything's been referred reverted and and uh all tidied up on the books, if we see that there's some money left over there, uh this bill simply says um up to two million of that will allocate toward um toward the parks department.

And again, I would remind you that the parks department um uh reverted you know uh above two million dollars.

And um now we might have um you know might be half a million dollars, it might be zero.

Uh it might be ten million dollars.

Um that that's kind of up to the administration on how they kind of just you know zero everything up, you know, which is it's up to them.

Uh but if there is some left over, um this bill simply says, hey, let's it's just a priority decision and saying, hey, let's put let's put this toward uh seeing if we can fix uh some things that um for one reason or another just didn't are where they need to be at this time of year.

And so um so that's that's where I'm at in it.

And I know you all have some proposed amendments to it, so we can look at those.

The motion is for R 183.

I believe we got a second.

Nope.

Uh we did not.

Second from Councillor Grout.

Okay.

Uh and so I would like to move amendment number one to R 183.

On page two after section two, insert the following new section and renumber subsequent sections accordingly.

Section three distribution of funds, the two million dollars appropriated pursuant to section one of this resolution shall be distributed equally among the three parks and rec department operations maintenance areas.

Each area shall receive six hundred and sixty-six thousand six hundred and six six hundred dollars.

The remaining balance of the two dollars shall be allocated to the parks and recreation penal yards operation maintenance area.

I'll move that and then explain.

There's a second by councilor grout.

When this first came out, I reached out to Director Simon asking what would be better to.

I mean, I don't think that dur dividing this among nine council districts sort of a thing is going to be conducive to what the goal is, it seems for you know, I mean, so how do we make sure that it's still equally equally-ish spread again amongst the city?

Um and and while I will say uh I don't see oh you he is here.

Well, while I will say he wasn't excited about uh this bill, he also director Simon made sure to say, well, these three parks and rec yards is a great way to distribute the funds, let them figure out a way to to divvy it out, plus all three yards service the entire city.

So the people who are working on our parks can go ahead and figure out what's really needed at our parks and which ones are in the most emergent situation uh in that regards.

And that the two extra dollars was because the sponsor his his yard is the Pinot Yards too.

So I wanted to make sure just to get get that round number in there.

Are there any questions or comments?

Counselor Lewis?

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um fine with the amendment.

I think that was the intent anyways of just spread it out where it's needed.

Um I would make I would ask for a you make a just a friendly amendment to to um to ensure that because you you got you got numbers in there and I would I would ask that we just change it to a percentage, like do a one-third percentage of the total amount because the bill says up to two million dollars.

So again, if it's if it's five dollars, I don't know, I mean if it's you know a million or whatever, I'd I'd say maybe we do a 33% percentage and then the same thing.

If there's a few dollars left over, it goes to Pino Yards.

So if we could I would just ask for that change.

Again, I hate friendly amendments, but I will go with that.

I will go with that.

Um, no, no, I would prefer a friendly one, uh, although it's yeah, we're not gonna make us do an amendment to the amendment, but can staff capture that easily enough?

Councilor Grout, you were the second on this.

Are you okay with that?

Thank you.

So then amendment number one is to distribute the funds of up to two million dollars amongst each of the three yards for parks and recreation in a one-third split equally or as close to it as possible once decided to spend it.

And I think staff is figured it out.

Any other questions or comments on that?

All right.

I urge your support.

All those in favor of amendment number one to R183, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes.

Anyone opposed that passes on a nine zero vote.

We have an amendment number two to R183, Councilor Lewis and Backa.

I'll tell them it's just me.

Thank you, Madam President.

I think that was a mistake.

Uh no, this is just me.

Um working with the uh parks advisory board, which is fantastic.

They they really do a good job.

Um, also, I mean, they put out their annual report, which is super handy.

And they've had some asks the last couple years about activating the parks or funds to help activate the parks, which I think you know, any time we get our community engaged is is a positive.

And so I spoke with uh counselor Lewis about potentially doing something here.

Um, do want to change this.

We had initially put in 80,000.

Um, but of course it's we can't use that number, so we can change that to like five percent if if you're amenable to that, Council Bruce.

Five percent five up to five percent.

Um yeah, this is just to help with the asset they've brought to this board uh multiple times.

Okay.

So if I'm correct, the motion is for amendment number two to R 183, which will say five percent of the emergency parks grass and turf replacement project shall be dedicated for use to to the MPROP.

Right.

With the with the guidance and in consultancy consultation with Metropolitan Parks and Recreation Advisory Board, I believe we can't give directly to a board.

So five percent is it's not really that much to be honest.

Counselor or Madam CAO, Madam President, if you were doing 80,000, it would be four percent.

I was just trying to give us a either fine.

I'm fine with four percent so four percent would be accurate to what it was before.

I feel like I'm becoming an auctioneer.

I know right.

Uh okay, so I think this is a solid, thank you, Madam President.

I think this is a really solid thing for your book where we really not a lot of dollars that really helps out our communities.

And there was a second, I think by a was it council grout?

Are you good with that?

Any questions or comments?

Anything from the administration?

Yes, madam president, thank you.

Um we've had this discussion now at multiple meetings, and um I think it's important to just be consistent um in this message, which is that during the COW hearing budget hearing that you all made the statement that um uh fund balance, if it were available would be prioritized for salaries for employees.

This is choosing um parks grass over um any of that fund balance being used for employee um uh uh salary increases.

It was a half percent that this this board board uh council voted on, and I just think it's important to remind uh everyone that this these are the funds that would be made available to be able to do that if that were the priority.

Second, it also removes the available fund balance for the next budget process.

Uh so it is making a decision about um available fund balance that would be potentially available when we enter into the next budget budget period and be in a position to be able to um account for those funds in the FY207 budget.

I always have to think about which uh fiscal year.

So I think it's important for transparency purposes for us to um state that uh here as that is a decision uh that you all would of course up to you all.

I have said before, and when I was asked on the record by the counselor, yes, I prioritize people over parks in our current budget, and that was based upon the many ways in which we're providing services to people as well as providing um most of our budget growth has been related to salary increases for the employees, our greatest asset that we have as a city to provide the services that we do to the community.

Counselor, I'm gonna come back to you in just one second, but we are on the amendment right now, and so I think I just want to make sure that we stick to the amendment on that.

Uh and so we're going to.

Is there any other question, Counselor Feeblecorn?

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, first of all, I love 80,000 for park activation.

Um, I've had conversations with folks at the parks recreation advisory board, and and I fully support that.

Um I just want to ask how park activation projects fit under the title of this bill, which is turf and grass, emergency turf and grass replacement.

Um again, I I think it's 80,000.

We should be able to find that.

We should be able to get that in a budget.

Um, but I just want to understand how that can fit within the confines of this bill.

Madam President.

Council is will we have to change the title for this clued on?

Madam President, Councilor Feblecorn, I think that we could fit this within the umbrella term of emergency turf replacement programming, and just saying that the TERF expenditures will be made in consultation with the advisory board.

Thank you, Madam President.

So and let me just ask the sponsor then.

I was under the impression this was the 80k for park activation, which would be you know sponsoring events and things like that in parts.

It would park activation would not be actual groundswork within the park.

Is that am I misunderstanding what this 80k is for?

Madam President, I I think you're right.

Yeah, I do think it does help the figure of people in the parks, they're gonna know, or they're gonna be the ones to report if things need to be fixed or not fixed.

I think that's partially how this all started.

So there's some gray in there, I think, but yeah, to your point of yeah, I think it is more directly towards that.

Thank you, Madam President.

I'm I'm happy to have it.

I just want to make sure that it's allowed.

Ms.

Cluidon.

Or maybe not.

Well moving on to so we're on amendment number two to R 183.

I do have some reserves about going from emergency to activation.

It's already it is a hard thing for me to swallow.

Uh I was getting closer to being on board with the emergency turf, quality of life, helping taxpayers and families and all of that.

But if we're gonna start throwing that in, I think that that's gonna open up a Pandora's box for me personally, um, rather than truly trying to go and cut down dead trees, put well, I mean that's different too.

TERF, turf, turf.

But this whole thing has been turf the whole time until now.

Thank you, Madam.

Counselor Baca.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

I mean, I to me it was the spirit the spirit of this bill was improving our parks.

Um whether that's the direct turf or some other aspect.

So um if this is gonna cause a problem, I'm fine with drawing and we can try and get it some other way.

Um really just about yeah, or can how would we improve our parks and our communities?

So I I can go either way.

Uh Ms.

Kluidon Madam President, I think um on its face the amendment to me reads as the funds will be used for turf, which is consistent with the title of the bill.

Um if the intent is that it be used for activation purposes, um, then I think in that case it's it doesn't read that way quite in the amendment, but that would require a title change to use the funding in that way.

Okay, and so I and I I agree with it too that it says turf replacement in the amendment.

I just wasn't sure.

I can't really see up there.

So if it says if it says activation up there, then that's where I was thinking that maybe Council Febocorn had brought that up.

Right.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

No, I'm fine with drawing this if it's gonna be too much confusion.

We just hopefully we can work in good faith during the uh budget season and the cleanup or the budget season uh to take care of this.

Um I think it is a worthy worthy program that has been brought up multiple times to us from from volunteers that are really trying to do good things.

So yeah, I'll withdraw that.

Thank you.

Okay, so amendment number two has been withdrawn.

Are there any other amendments, counselors?

Any okay, and first to counselor Lewis, because I know you wanted to respond as well to okay.

Any other questions or comments on R 183?

Okay, Councilor Rogers.

Thank you, Madam President.

I just had a question.

Um for the sponsor you mentioned that it said that we should it should be up to two million, but the wording in the bill says no less than two million dollars.

So I just wanted to make sure.

Um what line is up?

It is on page two line 17.

Um following finalization of fiscal year 2025 final reports, no less than two million dollars of the fund balance will be appropriated.

We say that we say um up to and then we say look no less.

Or is that in a different context the second time?

Um Madam President Besan Counselor uh Lewis, we do not say up to it.

It's no less than two million, but if the fund balance doesn't come in, we would use up to that amount of the fund balance.

So there's some so that that's why we still needed the percentage, so it's um it's two million, but if it's uh um I mean if it's a million, then it's gonna be a million, right?

So I think that's what the I I guess up to really is it's it's it's I guess that was my language that really says what it says.

Are you okay with that?

Thank you, madam president.

I just want to make sure that that that that's okay because you in your wording said no up to, but this says no less.

So that I I interpret that as if we have two million, the full toll million goes to this based on the percentages to each yard.

I just wanted to make sure.

Thank you, madam president.

I feel like that's clear as mud.

Is it no less or up to?

Because to me they're two opposite things, but Mr.

Motsco just made it sound like they're the same thing.

Madam President, it's it's two million and unless there's less than that in the um in the in the res in reserve.

It says following the finalization of fiscal year 2025 financial reports, no less than two million dollars of fund balance shall be appropriated to emergency parks grass and turf replacement project.

It doesn't say up to exactly madam president.

It's uh it's it's it's two million dollars.

If there's there's three million dollars, there's ten million dollars, it's gonna be two million dollars.

If there's a million dollars, then it is what it is.

So thank you, counselor.

I just wanted to make sure that there's not an up to in this at all.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

Count Madam Vice President?

Thank you, Madam President.

So I just wanted to ask, go back to the presentation uh about the GRT um earlier.

So, what do we have um for our overall projection for the mid-year?

Like, are we at and the reason I'm asking that is because we we really did make a conscious decision to fund employees, right?

And I know that you know we always are very conservative, which is great, but I'm just wondering what that percentage is so far, um, and where does that leave us in terms of that balance?

And um, does it appear that there's gonna be enough for both things?

And if there's not, you know, I get I I do get concerned, and I I want to support Councilor Lewis.

Um, but I'm just worried about not having enough for the employees percentage raise.

So can you kind of give me an uh projection of where we're at with that Mr.

Matsko?

Council President Bassan, Vice President Pena.

Um, Miss Boehner's uh uh presentation this evening indicated uh that the when the FY26 budget was presented, they the administration and council agreed with a 3.8 percent increase year to year.

So that was their projection that we're gonna make 3.8 uh percent more this year than last year.

Uh last year I think it was 881 million.

Um don't quote me.

So it would be about four percent over that.

The first three months have been reported by Santa Fe, and according to Ms.

Boehner's uh presentation, we are 2.1 percent over the 3.8.

So we are collecting uh right now after three months, one quarter, uh 5.9 more than last year.

So there is a little bit of a of a delta there of the 2.1 over the projection.

So, madam president, so um so 2.1 over, yet we had an incredible Christmas season, it looks like so.

Um so okay, so I I feel more comfortable that we'll have enough money for both.

Okay, thank you.

Councilor Feblegorn, no?

Okay.

Anyone else?

Councilor Lewis to close.

Thank you, Madam President.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm glad we brought that up uh because again, we're talking about a budget that closed six months ago, or you know, this is six months ago.

So all we're doing now is just uh um squaring the books, you know.

And uh and if there's some money that's not allocated, that's what it goes toward.

So it's a little bit of a cheap shot by the administration to say uh oh now we're talking about the difference between salaries and and and uh I mean it's it's just that that's absolutely just that that's just not true because we're gonna have a whole nother book of money at the at the beginning of the year uh to build a whole nother budget on and uh um and be able to use you know for that.

I mean, and again, you know, you got a parks department that that that reverted to over two million looks like um so we can make it up there, we can make it up with all the other departments that reverted some and the other departments that that uh spin it over.

And so again, uh but I'm glad we clarified that.

I urge support, thank you.

The motion is for R 183 as amended.

All those in favor, raise your hand and say yes.

Yes, yes, anyone opposed that passes on an 8-1 vote.

We're moving on to R204, Councilor Baca by request.

Thank you, madam president, R204, repealing the St.

Joseph Hospital Metropolitan Redevelopment Area Designation and Plan, and amending the code of resolutions.

This is by request for the administration, MRA.

Uh they're just trying to clean things up.

Um I agree with this particular this one getting cleaned out.

So uh move a due pass.

There's a motion and a second by councillor grout.

Any questions or comments?

Counselors, counselor grout?