Okay, everyone, it's 7 p.m.

Um, if we can take a seat, please.

Okay.

Uh welcome to the January 12th uh meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals.

For those who have not been to a uh board meeting before, here's a brief procedural overview.

Um so when a case is called, the city staff will have up to five minutes to present their case, after which the applicant and their representatives will also have up to five minutes total to present their position.

And then finally, the case will be open to public comments with each public comment speaker also limited to five minutes.

Members of the public must fill out a speaker form of their record, and you could find those uh speaker forms outside this room.

Um the board may ask questions during any of these presentations, and the respond the response of the board questions do not count against those five minutes.

Um however, speakers, and this is very important the speakers are only asked to respond to to the board's questions and refrain from elaborating, restating their position, or asking questions of the board.

Once public comment is closed, the board will deliberate on the case during which the board may ask additional questions to either staff or the applicants or both.

As always, speakers are asked to only respond to the question and refrain from discussion.

Um little information about the BZAA.

The BZA is a seven-member board with a four-member quorum requirement.

And all motions must have at least four affirmative votes to pass, regardless of the number of board members in attendance.

Um so with that being said, Ms.

Christensen, please call the roll.

Mr.

Liu?

Here.

Mr.

Burke?

Here.

Mr.

Foley?

Here.

Mr.

Justice?

Here.

We do have a quorum.

Okay, thank you, Ms.

Christmasen.

Um so we can move to new business.

Dr.

Item number two.

Um before we start the docket items, just a couple of quick announcements um for the board and for anyone speaking.

Um please make sure you speak um closely and clearly into the microphones if you're set back or if you're turned towards the um towards the back of the room.

We won't be able to pick you up, pick you up on the microphones.

Um and then also for the board, um, we just wanted to let you know that there is a new um planning technician that'll be staffing the board.

Um was previously Ted.

Um Luke Cohen has taken over, and you've probably gotten some emails from him, um, but he'll be the point of contact for the ZA related questions that you might have.

Um with that, we'll go ahead and get started.

Um docket item number two, BZA 2025 00011, 2807 Ridgeroad Drive.

Public hearing and consideration of a request for a special exception to construct a rear edition in the required side yard.

So in R8 residential.

Staff presentation.

Sure.

Good evening, members of the BZA.

My name is Bill Cook with BNZ.

This application is for special exception to construct a rear edition in the required side yard of the south side of the property.

The property address is 2807 Ridge Road Drive, which is zoned R8 residential zone is surrounded by other single unit detached dwellings and located in the North Ridge Rosemont Small Area Plan.

The applicant proposes a one-story rear addition to the existing structure as shown in your staff report and outlined here in purple.

The proposed edition would simply extend an existing part of the structure and would match the existing height in vertical wall plane on the south side.

Why are we here?

The zoning ordinance requires a minimum required side yard of eight feet for the R8 zone.

The existing house the existing house only provides a seven-foot side yard on the south side, making it non-compliant.

The applicant requests a one-foot special exception for the south side required yard in order to construct the addition so that it matches the extra existing structure and provides an efficient floor plan.

As outlined in the staff report, the applicant application meets the standards for special exception and staff recommends approval.

Staff is available if you have any questions.

Do any board members have questions for staff?

Okay.

Um hearing none.

Um the applicant has five minutes to present their case.

Good evening.

Um really uh don't have too much to explain to the board except the uh the request is so that we can obviously uh accommodate additional uh living space within the one uh level of this uh structure.

Um the residence is a primarily a one level, um so the addition will give us additional living area as well as uh a bathroom uh one and a half um bathrooms to accommodate us as well as a growing family.

Yeah, any questions for the applicant?

Do any board members have questions?

I do have one just out of curiosity.

Um, what room would this be attached to?

Like um, what would it connect into from the already existing house?

It would connect, um, it would actually connect through a hallway from the kitchen.

It's hard to explain, but there's a um I would be I could try to uh show it to you, but there's actually um if you look at the back patio, um there's uh a door that and that you can enter into from the other side.

Um there you can you can kind of see it on the half.

Um so there would actually be a hallway from that door on the other side of it that would would directly go in.

And I'm I think one of the pictures that um we had our former architect draw.

I'm not sure if I'm there you recall uh Mr.

Rob Burns, who had passed away.

Um he was uh working with us on this originally.

Um he had put the hallway in.

If you look at page 16 of the um staff report.

Thank you.

Um I don't believe I have received any public comment forms for this case.

Is that correct, Miss Christmas?

We have not received any.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Um want to open it up to board deliberations.

Any questions, comments?

Mr.

Foley.

Um if there are no uh questions or comments.

I would like to uh make a motion.

Okay, I'd like to make a motion to approve based upon the uh staff's recommendation.

I second that motion.

Okay, hearing a motion and a second.

Um all those in favor of approving say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All those against okay.

Hearing none, um the case is approved.

Thank you, and good luck.

Docket item number three, BZA 2025 00012 408 East Monroe Avenue.

Public hearing and consideration of a request for a variance to construct an accessory dwelling unit, ADU forward to the front building wall for the principal dwelling zone RB residential townhouse.

Staff presentation.

Good evening, Mr.

Chairman and members of the BZA.

I come before you today regarding BZA 2025-00012.

Request for a variance.

Okay, here we go.

There we go.

Um the applicants are requesting a variance to build an accessory dwelling unit forward of the front building wall of the principal dwelling.

The key element of this variance is that the existing house sits 8.1 feet from the rear property line, which means that the majority of the um land is in forward of the house.

As you can see, this property right here is zoned RB, which is a town home zone.

Adjacent to this house, you have a multi-unit dwelling on one side, you have a single unit dwelling on the opposite side, and across the street, you have a commercial complex uses.

Um again, the existing house is 8.1 feet from the rear property line, and the house actually sits within the two required side yards.

In addition, this house has a six-foot solid fence in the required front yard.

The applicants are proposing to build a one-story accessory dwelling unit with storage in the basement.

It will sit two feet from the property line, which meets the requirements for the accessory dwelling unit.

This building meets the height recommendation of 12.11, 12 feet 11 inches, which means it can sit within the um within two feet from the side yard.

Again, you can see where the applicants are proposing this as the accessory dwelling unit or ADU.

It will be forward of the principal dwelling.

Again, as you look at this house, you can see where the house is placed towards the rear of the property.

It is 8.1 feet again from the rear, and the house sits within both of the side yards.

Staff did receive some concerns from the Delray land use committee regarding the parking.

I want to be make sure that we are clear and that you understand that in the zoning ordinance, parking in a required yard can only be 50% of the required yard.

So in this case, the required yard is 20 feet, it's a 20-feet setback multiplied by the width.

So what you see in red is the area that is considered the required yard, and what you see outlined in blue is that portion that will be used for parking, which comes up to 49.42%.

So it is actually less than the 50%.

The other portion of the parking is outside of the required yard.

So this is actually in compliance.

And where the accessory dwelling unit will be, that's where the six-foot solid fence will begin.

And so that would be in compliance with the regulations, but this is a solution that they have proposed so that they do not have to back out onto Monroe Street.

And as you can see, they're directly across from the CVS on Monroe Street.

And this portion of Monroe can get busy, particularly on Saturdays and particularly during soccer season.

So this was one of the suggestions that they came up with to address the parking issue for themselves.

Staff recommends approval with the condition that the six-foot fence is removed and that they build the four-foot fence, which is in requirements, excuse me, that meets the zoning requirements.

Sure.

In addition, can we also like it looks like they're putting in some shrubbery or plants along there?

Is it possible to make it contingent that they they also do that?

You can I guess they um another question I have is um when was this property purchased?

I believe they purchased this property within the last year or so.

Um staff has done research on this property before, and and the board actually, this house came before the board probably about 2016, where the previous owners wanted to do an addition, but they couldn't, so they were able to do a special exception to build like a portion in the back to try to expand.

Um, in looking at the history and the research of this property, um, this portion of the street was actually in what was called Alexandria County, which is now um Arlington County, and this actually sat on a road called Poor House Lane.

And and this actually led to an alms house that was there.

And so when you look at the history of this property, it is not till like around 1932 in the Sanborns map that we see what was the bigger property began to get subdivided.

And when in 1932, when it shows up on the Sanborne map, we see that the house is already sitting in the back.

So it was never like a Ford facing house and property behind it.

The house was literally built to the back from the very beginning.

Right.

But I guess my my point is that one of the criteria for the variance is the reasonable reasonableness of not, I guess what what was it, not knowing that or buying it in good faith or whatever.

They bought the question the question is when you bought the property, it's like when you purchased the property, buying it in good faith.

Again, Virginia is a due diligence commonwealth, and um they may not have known most people do not know the zoning regulation when they buy the house.

It's up to a person to assume that their house or do the research for themselves to find out that maybe your yard is not in compliance, but we don't see that.

Most people who purchase a home with a realtor, um, the realtor may not have been able to disclose the information because the realtor may not have known that um this is a non-compliant house and that this house has a history and has had variances on it.

They were totally unaware that this house had already had a previous um special exception on this property.

I mean, I I tend to view that differently.

I mean, I think I just me personally, I think that you know, people when you go to buy a house, you know, it's it's it's pretty obvious you don't have a backyard.

And you know, you can look at the the accessory dwelling ordinance.

I mean, I I think that that seems like that was probably something that was planned when the house was bought, you know, that maybe there's something that you know they want to put back behind it, and it's just seems to me that buying it so near term that that the reasonableness was that you would do your due diligence to you know for doing this.

Um I can I can appreciate your comments and I can understand it, but one of the things I can speak to is if you go back into our zoning ordinance prior to the 1932 zoning ordinance, the zoning ordinance did not have a setback.

It did not have a front yard setback.

We don't see the front setback until after 1932.

So when this house was actually built, it met all the criteria of the regulation.

So what you will have is existing non-conforming structure.

That doesn't, I mean it's just a non-comportant conforming structure because again, the ordinance did not speak to a setback until after 1932.

Right.

Thank thank you.

You're welcome.

Mr.

Foley, if I could just add a little bit um more clarity to that as well.

Um so accessory structures, regardless of um what type of extressory structure, whether it's an ADU or a shed or um, you know, uh any another type of accessory structure, those all have to be located behind the front building.

A front building wall.

Um that is actually not written in the ADU section.

That's actually in their definitions of an accessory um structure.

So it is a little bit of an obscure um location that someone might not know to look.

Um also there is an existing shed that was constructed at some point.

I don't know when a permit isn't wasn't required for the shed.

Um that is an illegal structure that's there.

So there may, I don't want to speak for the applicant, you can follow up with them, but um there was an existing accessory structure already located in their um board of the front building wall.

Um, so there may have been some confusion as to whether or not um they knew about that regulation specifically.

That that sounds fair.

And the ADU is actually going to be in the same location where the existing shed is now.

So I guess we could kind of think about it as the shed is gonna turn into an ADU.

Something like that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Mr.

Burke, Mr.

Coleman?

Uh sorry, Mr.

Justice.

One of us.

Uh so I know you said the structure was built in 1930 before we had setbacks in the zoning code.

Uh, I see in the report here that it was substantially rebuilt in 97.

Do we have any more information on the nature of the the rebuild?

And if any uh convenience was required.

So we do not.

And the reason why is again because at the time when it was Arlington, excuse me, Alexandria County, which is going to become Arlington County, um, the city had not incorporated yet.

So there are records that we tried to find to go back to find the history.

We could not.

The only thing I can say about this property is this was called the Duncan Estate.

And we again the records, the records that we have, it does not pick up that sandborne map until like the 30s.

And then it's at that point that we see the house already sitting in the back.

But when we where the sandborne map shows that house, it was actually predating the zoning ordinance.

And it was like maybe a year later, a year and a half later when the zoning ordinance came again and showed me when the zoning ordinance was codified, that's when we first start seeing setbacks for the front yard.

And I think I'm well, I shouldn't say that I think like that, but um I believe one of the reasons is when you think back, this was like a farm area, and that's why it was important for me to say that this was called Poor House Road and was an alms area, and this was a farm, it was a working farm area back there.

And so it could very well be that you know some farms, many of the houses sit further back and not necessarily to the front.

Right.

But I mean uh it says here that the house was substantially rebuilt in 1997.

We don't do you have records.

So I can clarify a little bit.

So um the building code all building permits are are maintained by the Department of Code Administration.

They only keep um the actual plans for three years.

Um so we don't have the plans, we just have record that there was a permit, and the permit description is um I don't remember exactly what it said, but it was something to the effect of like reconstructing an existing structure.

Um we typically allow non-compliant structures to be replaced to their same size and footprint.

Um so that is our assumption as to what happened, whether they completely demolished it is a little unclear.

Um we we don't really have those detailed records, but uh that's our assumption based on what the the permit description was.

Um and then looking at the sandboard maps, it appears that it's the same footprint.

Um it's a little bit of a guessing guessing game.

My primary question was if the house was completely demolished, that would have been an opportunity to move it to a more typical location on the site, but it's we don't I guess we don't know if that happened, so we'll assume it didn't.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Is it 92?

Uh my only question just kind of relates to the the subdividing of the actual land that would have been the farm.

Do we have any idea one when that may have happened?

And then this is more of an assumption question.

Is was this house the primary proper or primary like residence for that farmland or I don't know because again, those records would be in Arlington County and um it's kind of it was hard trying to piece the information that we currently have.

I understand.

Yes.

Thank you.

Can you read explain the conditions for approval, the removal of the six-foot fence?

So currently there is a six-foot fence in the required front yard.

The zoning ordinance says that in all yards, you can have a four-foot open fence 50 percent, 50 percent open, which means if the board is one foot, I mean one inch, then the space has to be one inch, three inch, three inch.

In this case, they have a six-foot solid stockade fence.

The ordinance also says, and this is in 7-202, that any yard except a front yard, you can have a six-foot fence, which means that this fence sits in the required front yard, and therefore it is um it is not in compliance with the current zoning regulations.

So with them um asking to a request for an accessory dwelling unit, we also wanted to bring the front portion back more into compliance, because as you come down Monroe Street, this is the only house that has a six-foot fence all the way up to the property line.

And so that's and then the parking issue came, and then that's when they decided to do the four-foot open fence, but put shrubbery behind it so that we can conceal the parking and soften the area up a little bit, as well as the proposal of putting some shrubbery along the side of the drive aisle for the for the cars as well.

Okay, so you're you're taking this variance request as an opportunity to enforce compliance.

You can see it, the picture right there, the long one, and um you can see the fence all the way to the front.

That's why when the letter came about the concern for the parking, we were able to show that actually there's more parking being used, more area being used for parking than what um they're going to be doing.

Then the concern for parking is it's the as you mentioned, the the parking space is 49% of the 49.44.

It is compliance.

A compliant, a compliant from the Del Ray association.

Yes.

Okay.

And so I would just add too that it's up to the board if they want to add the condition that we suggested about removing the six-foot fence or potentially adding a condition about the landscaping.

If you wanted to add a condition, you could certainly add a condition about to require the landscaping that they've proposed.

Uh question.

Is my understanding that the staff recommendation is for the four-foot fence to only be on the front facing or the part forward of the front wall of the ADU, not all the way around the property, that the six-foot fence would be maintained in the back like that.

So only in the required front yard.

Um just basically bringing the fence into compliance, removing the illegal fence that is um within the required front yard and replacing that with a four foot open fence.

And we would be within our authority to request the four-foot fence all the way around.

Um you can place whatever conditions um you would like on a variance.

Um typically they are um placed to to mitigate impacts.

Um so you just need to kind of keep that in mind.

But you and the board does have the authority to impose conditions.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions for stuff?

I I do have one more, just out of curiosity.

The the trees that already exist on the property, how is the ADU going to potentially impact those?

They are actually proposing to main.

Oh, it's not showing.

They actually is going to be built within the area, so the tree is going to remain.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay.

Um would the applicant like to present their case.

Good evening.

Thank you guys for being here.

Um my name is Olivia Griffin.

Um we've talked a lot about ordnance and code tonight, and so I want to offer the kind of human side of this, which is um that my husband and I um we've lived in Alexandria for coming up on four years now.

Um we lived in a townhome in Rosemont previously.

And in purchasing this home in Delray this past year in May, this was our our opportunity to own a single family dwelling in the area.

It was just barely within our budget and within um kind of the area that we'd always dreamed of raising our family, um, which was a big driver in our purchase of the home.

Um we recently, well, I guess now she's almost two, so not so recently, um, added a little one to our family.

And our goal in constructing this accessory dwelling unit is to um continue to expand our family in that um we would like to bring my retired parents to live here.

Um they are currently full-time child care um for our little one.

Um I'm an emergency veterinarian and I work 12-hour shifts.

My husband is a commercial airline pilot, and so he works anywhere from four to five days at a time on the road.

So there's not a daycare where we can actually um legally take our child.

They don't let you drop your kid off for 13 hours.

Um and so my retired parents currently fly take turns flying in from North Carolina um to watch our child.

So um this is our chance to really create a safe um, you know, multi-generational dwelling in which my parents who are aging can have um single-story living between the ADU where their living space would be and coming into the main story of our home.

Um it'll also offer me the opportunity um as their child to care for them as they age, and hopefully so that they can age in place.

Um I want to address some of the concerns um that I'm sure people here have had tonight, and that we do tend to bring um everything that's required into compliance with ordinance and code.

So taking down the front facing six-foot fence, um, removing the currently non-compliant shed um that exists in the front yard as well.

Um the six-foot fences that are along the side yard.

Um, I will comment on that those are not um actually ours.

The one that is on the property line where the ADU will exist actually sits um a foot over the property line on the um apartments complexes side.

Um and so we were under the impression when we purchased the property in um May of this past year that that fence was um on their property and owned by them.

Um I also will comment on we perhaps did not do our full due diligence in purchasing our home and recognizing that um we would have this issue with the ADU not being compliant um in being in you know forward of the primary structure.

And so we honestly just saw that City of Alexandria does allow for the construction of accessory dwelling units and did not delve deeper into the issue that we did not have a backyard in which to construct one in our home.

But we are in fact hoping to make this property our forever home here in Alexandria, and being able to do so with all the generations of my family would be a great honor.

Does the board have any uh questions for the applicant?

I didn't realize anything.

Um Ms.

Griffin, I have uh question for you on the shrubbery.

Um what do you plan to plant there?

I will be very honest that I am um my green thumb is quite black.

And so I will defer to um probably our builder and our architect on what they think would be um appropriate in that area and what they maybe have experience with um placing there.

And I'm also very open to suggestions from the board on what they um think would be appropriate and uh you know fit with the aesthetic of the city of Alexandria and Del Ray.

Would uh your uh architect like to come up and answer the question?

First of all, do any other board members have questions for Ms.

Griffin?

Uh just a clarifying question on the uh the portions of the fence that are in the rear yard, and then I guess on the uh looking at the compass correctly here.

Uh on the eastern side, are those also not on the subject property or are they on the subject property?

Or your property?

I think they are not.

Oh, so none of these fences.

Okay.

Other questions.

Okay.

Um Thank you, Ms.

Griffin.

So we do have one speaker for public comment.

Mr.

Chair, I I'd like to hear from the uh architect.

Yeah, that is the architect.

Oh, okay, that is the architect.

Well, then he's she had time anyway, but uh Well, well, they're they're I mean they're all like in that one five minute.

It's uh it's a five-minute total from the applic from the applicant and their representative.

But I think there was about two minutes left.

Uh hi, my name is Brian Glassman.

I'm with the architect.

Uh I was planning on speaking anyway.

I can make that short, but I'm happy to answer your questions.

Can you make sure you speak into the microphone?

Sorry about that.

Hello.

Do I need to restart or you have about two minutes to uh you know speak if you would like or we can just move on to the phone?

We can just move to questions.

I'm happy to answer whatever you need.

Okay, I I was just interested in the uh shrubbery.

What are you planning to uh recommend that they plant there?

Yeah, so I I wouldn't have specific uh planting schedules right now.

Uh I think a lot of that depends on the season uh that it would be in for uh construction.

But I we would be working with a contractor and with uh landscape designers to you know make that a reasonable uh service or screening.

So we would also be happy to listen to your recommendations for what would be relevant for the city.

But we don't have a we don't have a specific planting schedule right now.

My uh intention in asking this is that um and I'll just be uh right with this.

I I would like to uh uh uh vote to approve this, but with the contingency that the fence is brought fully into compliance, which I think you've agreed to.

Absolutely.

Um but then also it sounded to me like it the um in the Del Ray uh association, you know, part of the um interaction with them was to appease that concern was to do these plantings.

So I also want to make the approval for the variants um contingent upon planting in a you know particular way.

I mean, I I um just give you an example.

I I don't really want to tell you exactly what to plant there, but I don't think that they were thinking that planting pansies in the front yard would really be but then at the same time, I mean maybe you know, huge cypress trees that would you know completely block everything else.

Maybe that's not appropriate either.

So I'd really like to kind of hone in on some something that we can agree to that we think that maybe was was uh intended by that Delray Association that would look nice there, that would be maintainable, and uh you know, kind of put a put some bounding boxes around what is going to be planted there and make that a criteria for the variance.

So I'd like to hear your thoughts right now on what you think that criteria should be.

Sure.

Uh I think uh an evergreen material, uh maybe a certain height, you know, if the fence is four foot tall, maybe an evergreen material that reaches between four and six feet tall would add additional screening uh to that parking space.

Um like you said, you know, uh a short plant, uh an annual plant wouldn't make sense, and a tall tree wouldn't make sense.

Um I think we'd be happy to do a combination of uh you know more than one species, something like that.

You know, we could put that kind of language in the contingency, absolutely.

I agree that we don't necessarily want to pick specific uh plants at this stage, though.

So what we'd be talking about is some sort of uh shrubbery that would grow, fill in to make a continuous hedge and uh at maturity and be somewhere between four and six feet tall.

I think that's that sounds very reasonable.

Okay.

Mr.

Burke?

Uh I have a question just about with most of the property being, you know, already either paved over or gravel.

What is the drainage and also flood risk for the property currently as well as what it might look like in the future?

Yeah.

Uh currently the property is fairly flat.

Uh we did do a grading study, and there is not much grade change uh to the property.

Does generally slope um kind of not directly towards the main uh structure.

Uh so I don't think there is a major drainage issue on the site now.

Um the homeowner doesn't have any issues with water drainage right now.

Uh with the addition of the basement, we'd be digging out a deep hole with the we'd have foundation draining and uh uh French drain at the bottom of those stairs, which would mitigate any water risk.

Um Mr.

Justice, do you have any questions?

Um Ms.

Griffin, if you have any additional things to say, you still have two minutes.

Sorry.

In response to the drainage question, I believe there is also an existing like French drain type system on the property because just it's hard to see um in these pictures, but directly in front of the um covered porch, we have several drains that are set into the ground there.

And so at least in the half or so year we've lived there, we've not had any drainage or standing water issues.

Thank you.

Any other questions for the architect or for the applicant?

Okay.

We can move on to your board deliberations.

Questions, comments?

Mr.

Foley?

I'd you'd like to make a comment.

Um I've heard this a little bit from um I don't know who down there was saying this.

But um I think that we ought to I'm I'm in favor of approving this with the contingency one, that the fence is all the fence that's owned on the property is brought into full compliance with the uh the city's regulations.

Um, that the shrubbery is put in uh creating a hedge that would be between four and six foot at maturity and evergreen.

And I think that kind of gets at the Delray Association thing.

And three, as the shed is going to be removed, that any future shed is put behind the accessory dwelling, and that accessory dwelling would act as sort of that that front part of the building.

So like if they want to put another shed in, it would have to be behind the accessory dwelling, so that it was not in the front part of the process.

Mr.

Foley, I would just add that actually wouldn't comply with zoning.

Um it would need to be behind the front building wall of the primary dwelling.

But they don't have any room for that.

Um they they do have eight feet back there.

They could do a very small shed.

Um there's no setbacks required.

Um they can apply half the width of the alley so they could build it right up to their property line.

They could have a very small shed.

Um but technically a shed would not comply if it was four to the front building wall.

Thank you thank you for that clarification.

Um and just um I know sometimes we do this for landscaping comments, um, just to throw this out there.

Um we do have a landscape architect um in our department.

Um often there's conditions placed um that say that the applicant will work with city staff on the the final um configuration of the plantings for screening purposes.

That sounds like a better way of putting it than what I was trying to do.

Um quick question for staff.

With respect to the shrubbery and the plantings, that's not required, right, as part of as part of the zoning ordinance.

That's just a request from the Delray Association.

It is not required.

This is the applicant's response to a concern from the Del Ray citizens and land use advisory council.

Okay.

Thank you, Ms.

Ford.

You're welcome.

So my very strong opinion is that if it is not required as part of the zoning ordinance, it really doesn't make sense for me or at least in my opinion, to impose that as a condition on the applicant, but rather leave that, leave the landscaping and the planting project as an option if they want to go ahead and pursue it.

That's their own prerogative.

But I think it would be out of the board's bounds to impose that as a condition for approval.

Um but I would like to hear your thoughts from other board members.

Um as someone who focuses a lot on the type of landscaping with a lot of work that like I do in school where I'm where I'm at with planning in that sense, it is something that I do think is important, especially because this is a property that is very um very built right now in terms of you know, you have a lot of gravel, you don't really have a lot of green in that area.

Um and I understand not wanting it to be something where we are saying this needs to be done, but I think saying something along the lines of the property owner will work with city staff is something that is within our ability to do, because at the end of the day, you you know you have this by an area that is very heavily trafficked.

And I think that while we're not suggesting necessarily the specifics for the type of shrub or the type of plantings in general that they might have, it also allows them, it's it's not just good for the community, it's good for the homeowners as well because it gives them that separation from what is a heavily trafficked street, what is a heavily trafficked pedestrian area, and it allows for them to have that separation from both their cars and you know their vehicles as well as where they are doing their living.

Um not only doesn't create a physical barrier, but it also creates um a barrier where you know you're not gonna have nearly as much sound that might come through.

You're not going to have things that might come into that area just because you have a barrier that's a fence, but you have that um environmental barrier as well.

And that I think adds a lot for this property.

I think is even if it weren't something we recommend, I think it's still something they would probably end up exploring.

Absolutely.

I agree with everything you said.

Um but they but that is a choice um on their part, right?

Not a sort of imposition from the board sort of enforcing them to sort of undertake that.

Um that's that's what what I'm getting at.

If they would like to do it, that's um you know it is their property.

It's um you know, doing it does not correct any sort of zoning infraction.

Um but if there is a strong case that that the a lack of landscaping or shrubbery um you know has a detrimental effect on the public, then that that's another matter.

And I'm yet to be convinced of that.

I think I could really go either way on the on the landscaping.

Um I do hear what you say, Mr.

Chairman, about um that this is a voluntary measure um responding to opposition from the uh Del Ray's citizens association.

Um I guess one piece of information we don't have is would the is there a condition uh with the landscaping that the Del Rey Association would sign off on and and uh withdraw their opposition.

And what what would satisfy that?

I guess we don't um we don't know, and I guess there are no Delray people in the in the room to to answer that for us.

Um thing is that as I as I become Mr.

Fence Man today.

Um based on how all the fence around the property seems to match in both style and apparent age.

I guess maybe you know, years ago when this was um built, maybe someone just had the the lot lines um not correct.

Um because the alternative where all four bordering properties build the same fence at the same time doesn't seem um doesn't seem likely.

But I guess if all the fence that is within our control is brought into compliance, that that would still be satisfactory.

Absolutely.

I I have no issue with the with the fencing um you know being being being brought into compliance.

My my question and opinion was uh specifically on the planning, planting and the shrubbery.

Mr.

Chair, um how about if we word it such that they we require that they work with the city to obtain a recommendation and whether they follow that recommendation or not as property owners is up to them, but they must at least get the city's recommendation on what to plant there.

That's fine by me.

Okay.

So um with that, um can I make a motion?

I'd like to make a motion to approve with conditions that uh the fencing on the property is brought fully into compliance, which would be the fencing that's under their control um for the entire the entire property, not just the front but everything.

Whatever is out of compliance is now brought into compliance.

Um that they uh work with city staff to obtain a recommendation on the um the plantings that they do that they've uh indicated on their uh drawings that they've submitted to us.

I second that motion.

Um we have a motion and a second.

All those in favor of approval with those conditions outlined by Mr.

Foley, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All those against, same sign.

Okay, hearing none, um the application is passed.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And good luck.

The next docket item is consideration of the minutes from the November 10th, 2025 Board of Zoning Appeals.

Okay.

Um Ms.

Evelyn, our secretary, is absent Mr.

Chair, I have reviewed the um minutes and I did not find any that um that was out of order or mistakes.

Okay.

Um does anyone have a motion to approve these minutes?

Uh Mr.

Chair, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All those in favor of approval say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay.

No, no nays.

So the motion is passed.

Next item.

The next item on the docket is the elections of the board officers for chair, vice chair, and secretary.

Um, seeing that there are only four members present.

I would like to open it up for deliberation on whether you would like to defer or take another course of action.

Mr.

Chair?

Yes.

Um what I'd like to suggest in this case is that um because we really haven't had that many meetings, unless there's somebody else here that really wants one of these positions, that we just take it upon ourselves right now to vote um all the current officers to remain in their positions for another another year and uh and just go forward for the next year.

I didn't know that was an option, but I love it.

Um I I do believe that uh two of the um positions, people that are in positions are not here and they have to accept the the nomination before they could be elected.

Um can you uh explain that a little more bit more correctly?

Um typically a nomination has to be accepted by the person um that's being nominated.

Um because Ms.

Evelyn and um Ms.

Bowman are not here, um whether or not they want to accept those positions.

I mean you could you could always can go ahead with the election, I suppose, and then if a re-election if they wanted to step down.

Um we do, I will tell you that we do have a docket item for February, so it's not like we're not gonna have a hearing next month.

Um so hopefully we'll we'll potentially have um a more full board.

I think my my opinion um please disagree if you if you will like, but I would um I would prefer to defer the the election to February.

I I agree with that.

In that way I think it gives everyone the chance to at least speak on their behalf if they you never know if people don't want their position anymore.

So yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah I'm in agreement.

Can I get a motion?

Oh I'm sorry, you said something?

No, I said we're on agree then.

So we want a motion.

Yes.

Uh I'd like to make a motion to defer our election to the February board meeting since there is going to be a February board meeting.

And I'll second that.

Okay.

All those in favor of the motion say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All those against.

Okay, hearing none, the motion to defer is passed.

One other item.

Um we have been talking um internally and with some board members have uh requested that we have a um a training from the city attorney's office.

Um they right now have proposed that before the March hearing.

Um so we'll send something out to you to check your availability for um meeting, possibly before the meeting um on March, I believe it's the March 16th.

That's before like we meet here before, just sometime before between the February and the March meeting.

No, it would be like you would come an hour early.

Okay to the to the hearing, and we'd have like a work session essentially before the um before the actual meeting starts.

Got it.

Mr.

So we'll send something out to um pull and make sure everybody's available.

I I'd just like to say that um I I actually was hard pressed to get here on time tonight, and I kind of foresee that in the future.

So um I I think that for me, I mean I'm maybe I've been around long enough that I don't necessarily need to attend the training, but I I will have a hard time making anything earlier than seven o'clock coming out here.

That's a good point.

Um I can also look at what the docket will look like in March, because we could possibly um if if it's not a heavy docket, maybe we could do it after the meeting.

Um have the work session start afterwards.

We'll have to look into the logistics of that.

Um that's definitely something to take into consideration.

Okay.

Yeah, if board members are open to that.

I would be.

Yeah.

Once we once we get closer and figure out what people's availabilities are, then we can go from there.

Sounds good.

Um just a quick quick reminder.

Um, you know, attendance is very important.

I think the bylaw, I believe, is 75% every every year.

So just want to make make sure that we you know we take that serious seriously.

And um yeah, going going forward that we well meet our our uh attendance records.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I don't have any other items.

Mr.

Chair, I'd like to motion to adjourn.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All those in favor of adjourning say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

The meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.

I think we said uh, yeah.

Uh yeah, yeah, you're uh question.

No, there was