All right.

This meeting is called to order.

We will proceed tonight with applications and other agenda items.

The order indicated on the docket.

Limited copies of tonight's agenda are available in the back right there.

If you're an applicant, please be sure to read uh the staff report for your application.

For each application, we'll we'll proceed in the following order of business.

The applicant or his order representatives will have an opportunity to either give a presentation in or just answer questions from the board.

Then the public will have an opportunity to comment.

Once public comments are closed, the board will deliberate.

The board can ask questions, further questions, and have a discussion with the applicants, no more public comment at that time.

Then the board will do one of a number of things.

They can vote on a motion to issue a certificate of appropriateness to conditional issue with commissions added by the board to deny that certificate of appropriateness.

Or if the applicant requests and wants to make some modifications based on the discussion, the applicant can ask for a deferral and the board board can vote on that.

The board can also take no action.

If the board takes no action, um after a period of 45 days, all applications are deemed approved.

So it's on the board to approve the application.

It can't hold up the process.

The board can also vote to continue an application until the next meeting.

Next meeting is two weeks away, and uh it would be just a continuation of the discussion.

Uh a couple of comments on voting motions passed by a simple majority vote.

If there's a tie vote, that is a no.

And if the board does vote to deny an application, a similar application cannot be considered for a period of one year, and that's in the municipality.

Um the board occasionally takes up matters other than applications for a certificate of appropriateness.

Uh that is the case tonight.

We're going to be looking at different types of fiber cement, and uh we'll give the public an opportunity to comment on it.

There's no action that's going to be taking place, it's really informational.

Um, and finally, any decision of the board can be appealed to the city council.

Um applications have to be made within 14 days of the board's decision.

So with that, we're gonna get started.

Mr.

Aki Uh minutes.

All right.

Um does anyone on the board wish to suggest modifications from the minutes of the April 8th meeting.

Do any members of the public have changes to the April 8th meeting minutes?

Hearing none, uh, can I have a motion on the minutes?

So moved.

Thank you.

All those in favor of adopting the minutes say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Any opposed?

The minutes are adopted.

On to new business, I think.

Yes, all right.

Thank you.

And um, and I will ask the board members, please speak up so that everyone in the room can hear you.

Um, I think sounds like already already we have a better two six than we did in the last room, so hopefully this will help.

Uh okay.

First item under new business tonight is item number three, uh, BAR 2026-00064, old and historic district.

Request for operations at 608 South Fairfax Street.

Applicant is Ramesh Panuru and represented by Donald Foster agent.

Right.

Where's our application?

Here, uh, where would we like our applicants?

Just in front.

Have it right here in the middle.

Uh, just like seated or standing.

Standing right here in the middle.

Okay, you can stand, or if you want to sit, you can take a seat.

Uh we sit.

We're working on getting electric.

Sorry, we're this yeah, this is all temporary.

You can sit down.

It's casual.

Um, okay, you're welcome to give us a presentation or just take questions, whatever you'd like.

Okay.

Um first of all, uh evening uh board members.

Uh my name is Don Foster.

Uh I um received a degree in architecture in 1973.

Practice for 40 years as a license start to have been here uh in the BC area over the past 17 years.

You live in Old Town.

Right, kind of county corner across from residents.

Um my time here, uh I work extensively with historical restoration and DC.

Uh so major uh body buildings.

Um residential work.

I saw on your comments here that the staff recommends denial of the certificate of appropriateness.

And as I looked at that, something stood out to me here, and that is that says your writing says according to the design guidelines, exterior doors are prominent visual elements of the buildings, main facilities.

And I agree with that.

And are highly visible to pedestrians when buildings are adjacent to sidewalk.

This residence is not particularly adjacent to sidewalk in terms of being at the sidewalk.

You've set back 22 feet, a total of about 30 feet from the curve.

Typically have six wood panels, which is correct.

I agree with that.

Centered and incorporated into a decorative door surround.

Which is uh what this house would build as so if we look at those historical uh significant features of federal style versus federal revival, uh there are differences.

As a matter of fact, uh uh starting after the revolution when the uh federal style uh became prominent, they were indeed solid doors, six-panel typically doors.

Uh as this progressed, and and uh around 1800 when they began what was called the federal uh revival period.

And if you look in the history of those, uh there were many, many examples of six-fanal glass belt doors that were put on to federal um revival style architecture.

The administration uh doors, uh they added a lot of uh lights around the side panels, uh transoms above, and opened that up quite a bit.

So I would contend that uh a six-panel door is not at all out of keeping with federal revival side.

Uh I know there are other doors around this neighborhood that are six-paneled glass doors, but they're storm doors.

And the fact that uh I guess that we allow solid glass aluminum frame uh storm doors in front of other doors, uh you know, I would have question about that as opposed to doing something that that uh with my experience falls within a um federal revival style pump.

So that would be the case.

This this house is 14.

This is a three plus million dollar home, it's 4,000 square feet.

It's uh what we consider new construction, it's about seven years old, built uh with tear down noise, and uh the light penetration for this entire residence comes on the elevation you see right there, and the back elevation that's exactly the same.

Very limited with the amount of light, natural lighting that's allowed into the house.

And uh a solid core door like this is very difficult uh to maintain because this is basically directly west, because all the easy west sun on those on the wood panels uh they would they would like to change this, and uh you put in a six-panel uh door with glass inserts instead of wood, uh bevel bus.

Thank you.

Um, Mr.

Conkey, just for clarity, in our design guidelines, we do not regulate storm doors.

Is that right?

That's correct.

Storm doors can be approved without um can be can be installed without problem.

So just to answer your question about that, it's just because uh I believe storm doors are viewed to be more temporary.

It's temporary and and it's two things.

It's it's uh and it's the same thing with storm windows.

Um it's it's the the idea of between storm windows and storm doors.

This is a preservation board, and we're more interested in preserving historic.

This is a different this is a different case, obviously, with a modern building.

Yeah, but on all buildings, we'd like to we would like to see the original windows be protected as best we can, and storm windows give us that option.

So that's why that's the door's protecting all yes, and and as you say, they're both they're both temporary, they can both be united move.

Okay.

So that's just answering the question.

I want to ask my colleagues, does anyone have any initial questions for the applicant before we open it up for public comment?

One question, the translate the existing door is divided into three lines.

So that's not the geometry is different from what the door is belonging.

Well, it's right there now or two.

And you're not gonna change that.

You're not the number change that's any member of the public have any questions or comments on this.

We've not received any uh speaker forms.

Okay, so we'll close public comment portion of this application.

We would all like to ask questions or offer with delivery comments.

I know there's some else around the corner that may have ball glass or something.

My recommendation is done about the anal approval in case that's something we can reference.

I think the solid wood doors more appropriate, especially since you have a transit above.

Um coordinated.

And I think I have seen storm doors with six panels, but they either have loot or so or glass, but I think the door itself has woody doors or in keeping the function of a front door, actually.

I could want to I thought the security of a solid door, the visual uh privacy of a solid door themselves because I don't think you can do that perfectly significant.

I agree with the staff, so it's uh it's not appropriate.

Any other comments?

Mr.

Conte, it is my understanding that there's already um a design of previous six pintor that has two clear glass paints at the top.

That's correct.

So there was uh there was an administrative approval for six panels with, and you can see this here in the staff staff report here.

Um the one on the upper left had was it was previously approved and it's still a valid approval.

It was been like six months.

Um so that that one so that's this basically the staff is recommending is is the that the applicant go with the one that was been approved administratively, which is on the left.

So I'm not like this one's very charming offered near design down with the neighborhood.

I think the design guidelines about federal styles of our time either and I don't believe they distinguish between federal and federal um I do feel like the proportion of glass to solid place on the front of the building might be disrupted by a full glass door.

Uh there's already a lot of glasses that relates to the actual thing to look at narrow on that straight frontage, and it the buildings around it are clearly all I think this is one of the already put in fact the top acknowledgement that it continues to design.

Uh I think my uh colleagues uh the staff in that chat as well to the ball uh to having either Hollywood or as not the glass at the bottom or well should what do you have a fluid store door with full glass set in the uh leave the wood door open and have with proper hardware it could function as a front door in the all glass and happen even requirements?

It might be so you know, yeah, that was my thinking too.

Spencer I have no additional comments in that side all right uh would anyone to oh I'll get comments um hearing all the comments of my colleagues uh they all make very good points.

My personal opinion is this is maybe not the choice that I would make, but it is a federal style door.

I know there are examples of federal style doors with glass inserts, and so I would be inclined to approve your application.

Uh with that said, does anyone have a motion?

I'll motion to have a little press back button to deny uh parasitic combination.

Do we have a second?

So and then Mr.

Punk, is this a roll call?

Uh this is not, it's not there's no demolition, so no.

Okay, we have a motion on the table to deny the application.

So all those in favor of the motion to deny, say aye.

Um all those opposed, bang.

So that was uh uh uh sign to what thank you.

Uh so your existing approval is still in fact, and you have 14 days to apply to the same box.

You can also use the storm door as this delino and this button.

Thank you for hearing your speech.

Thank you for coming to uh next item.

Not there yet.

Next item the docket is uh item number four.

This is BAR2026-0074 Old Historic District request for complete demolition encapsulation at 707 Ornoco Street, parcel address 500 North Washington Street.

The applicant is Kulinskalinski Group Architects PC, represented by Stephen Kalinski, agent.

All right, Mr.

Kalinski, you're in the hot seat.

Would you like to state your name?

Or you can stay in.

You're allowed.

I'll sit down.

It's the record.

Uh yeah, name and and address for the record, and then the floor is.

Steven Polinski, one of the boards work at the West Street, and she's relatively straightforward.

It's the demolition of a sponsor garage now you design the space.

So I'm glad to answer any questions.

Sammy have any questions?

I do it.

Maybe one of the boys.

So uh I decided we the house was built in 1926, but if this core on us uh later uh 97.

So we the the garage the garage first appears on the sandboard maps in 1958, so it was sometime around there.

We don't we we're not able to find a uh permit for it or anything, but but we know from the sandboards it was not on there prior to 1958, so you know, somewhere about it.

Follow up my my understanding is it's no longer a curb cut here.

That's correct in the garage.

Right, in 2001, I believe um there was a BAR application to modify the the garage into no longer being a functional garage, and it was became an office space.

Yeah, at that time the crib cut was abandoned or taken away.

Um, and some modifications were made to the building uh so that it could be used.

So it would continue to look like a rock look like a garage, but that it would function as an office.

And just for clarity um, although it's not performable part of your application.

The reason for this is because this counts against your FAR for adding additions on the property.

Yeah, it's in if it's possible.

It's where you can't use and the building is being converted to a residential use.

That's the intention.

More potentially, yeah.

Before I spend too much.

It's just useful to know sort of what the idea is.

For the board.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes, we're planning on converting it to the residential.

And this this would help us contribute.

Okay.

Any other questions on the one?

Does anyone in the member of the public have any comments they make on this application?

Do we have any speaker form?

We have not received any speaker forms, no.

Okay, we'll close the public comment and I'll just play.

Well, you'll have to fill out a speaker for I I did okay.

Great.

Give us a second.

Yeah, it's just good to live.

That's terrific.

Okay.

You are allowed.

You'll have three minutes to go to comment.

And please start with your name and an address for the record, and the floor is yours.

Okay.

My name is Colin Glee.

I would buy out just 27 South Albert Street.

Definitely.

And actually, I believe this gentleman might have something to do with architecture.

Um and it was a convergent office to a house, and it is very livable as it is.

And that's great.

And I just wanted to say the workshop scene from the spring through how we both absolutely all right.

Yeah, actually him before.

And I just see thank you so much.

That's usually the opposite is what I hear in the sort of comment.

So thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Um okay.

Any other public speakers?

All right, we'll close the public comment portion for item number four, and the floor is open to any of my colleagues who like to weigh in or offer a motion or whatever this you'd like.

I want to make a motion to approve or stop recommendation.

Is there a second?

And I just wanted to mention that I have no problem with the devil mission.

It is very visible though from Washington Street.

So any plan future.

Um Washington.

So we'll be we'll be back.

Once I figure out okay.

And we have the second Sarah.

So it's the sign of the second.

Yes.

This is demolition.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh Ms.

Robinson.

Mr.

Spencer.

Hi.

Ms.

Donito?

Hi.

Zandian.

Hi.

And Mr.

Scott.

I thank you.

No.

You're getting out of this.

Thank you very much.

Um, what's the next one?

Mr.

Cross.

Okay.

Uh, we have one more.

Well, couple more.

Uh number five is VR 2026-00076 old historic district.

Request for alterations at 115 Queen Street.

The applicant is Melissa Sordel, represented by Susan Fry, agent.

Susan Fry.

Thank you.

Um what has been recommended.

Um by the start.

Um, change the um sorry, let me start from the beginning.

We're looking to replace the curve.

Um we can play your address for the web.

Oh, I have biology.

Um team, we two and we are looking to replace obviously the rules.

And we have a couple of options, which I'm really staff with recognition of the composite.

I'm a little concerned about the bulkiness of the composite versus even architecture.

What can you taste like we umops?

Um the house was built in 1971.

And it's obviously falling apart.

No, not that just a rest.

Um, so we did a little bit different research, but we had three different briefing companies to come speak to us.

Uh we actually hired me over here to make sure that we didn't have any uh asthma issues.

So we're now back here trying to figure out what you I know the availability of the composite, which is the um the board.

Your staff has recommended in my opinion, and I think this for a remaining.

This is a bit bulky, we're uh three twelve hundred square feet, but as you can see, the pitch is so low.

Um this to me looks more like the actual slate, and I'm not leaving the animal here, just trying to keep you unvisible.

Uh this availability is at least eight weeks together.

This is not trying to um have it done as efficiently, and quite frankly, we now have a lot of disruption to it.

We know we have to reach out or five years, and we also know that if you want to hold in a one or two, and uh replace their rules with the architectural things, so our request obviously is to replace the and we're better than late.

And we also know that if you want to have homes we're doing a one or two and uh replace their rules with the architectural things, so our request obviously is the replacement with this, and we remember better than like this will be eight weeks to get the product, and it will take at least two weeks to be still architectural symbols.

I know or maybe not necessarily within the guidelines, but to me, this is a much lower profile, and that's it might be that's then we have that three briefing buttons go out, and I do know it is desperate everything, and we can't prepare okay.

Thank you.

Uh does anyone have any questions for the other is done in the presentation?

Yes, uh it's fine.

Uh we have um this particular um through the two exists, so we can't read replacing it with real site.

I don't see why we may not do it with one of the one of these two other options that have been around forever.

All right, you were saying that doesn't have this company that company was it does not think about it is truly and on the there is no repair option.

How do you consider just replacing the new slate room?

Uh no, Mr.

Conke help me with the dialogue here.

I believe on historic buildings, uh we would require real genuine slate, but we have approved some uh simulation slate on the skip that right.

Kind of right.

So our our administrative um guidelines say that real slate must be replaced with real slate.

Yes, that's why the that's why this is before the board tonight.

So but that being said, which exactly what you just said is that on modern buildings that the board has often made an exception to that real slate requirement um and said a uh facility is acceptable.

Okay, I think you're less 80 feet to one.

I was just saying that in uh that our design our um administrative approval administrative requirements say that real slate must be replaced with real slate.

However, the board in the past has often made it made an exception for later buildings or modern.

Yes, and this is a modern yes, anything after 1932 would be considered a later building.

Do we have any public speakers on this?

Okay, we'll close the public input portion just to continue discussing.

Does anyone else have any comments or questions for our applicant?

I'm familiar with the site, and also it's such a shallow slope, this room, and it's in the mid middle of the block, and this is horribly visible, but so I would be on, I think live that we're able to approve some other slate in this instance.

It's a handsome house, but it's it's not um seventies or so it's it's appropriate to about the time period.

I think for have the builder at that time and follow it, and the others, so there are others that are composed of site in the same development.

So I was here to exactly whichever one you prefer because I think there's not much and just this is here's so bulky fine, well these are two samples, obviously uh friendly over actually from the movie company.

So it's more visible, I think.

But it's three stories of the air, and then it's such a slope that you can look photo.

I think it's pretty up, but you know they're only sooner with thank you.

So were are there other synthetic slate uh options, or it's only those two these are the two that they're presented by the applicant.

I mean, there are there are lots of synthetic slate options on the market.

These are the two, these are the two being presented by the candidate.

So had you looked at other um options if that is the bulb here one.

There's I'm sure there are more than two, right?

Right.

That and it's unfortunately all the two, right?

But I believe there are other options that are similar slate uh individual pieces.

Um just beyond the uh uh unfortunately I don't know of any other synthetic uh product, and I have you reached out to your comments.

Okay.

Um that's the one we recommend the product I guess not because that's that we twelve center or profile in my opinion.

I'm not gonna hear bulking.

I think it's not I have not had options on synthetic.

Um are you that looks like slightly are you keeping uh snow guards?

So you can put the snow guards on asphalt.

That's pretty funny.

It's usually asphalt the snow.

I'm sorry to say that one the asphalt roof holds snow.

So we usually don't have snow guards on an asphalt.

Um usually it's on the slave or metal roof.

It's not the down, it's not the driver, but rather than small metal roofs to it doesn't fall.

It's a signature of a slate roof or a metal roof.

Um I like to say I know I know what do you're my husband?

I don't think I can speak because I have like some.

Yeah, you can no, I don't think I can.

I would love to be able to show you a couple of examples.

One of them corner, and I don't know that they have that.

So yeah, you're I'll just offer some comments now.

We're familiar with the neighborhood.

One of the unique things about this neighborhood is that when it was developed in the 70s, the the builder chose different roof styles for different homes.

And in fact, some homes were built with asphalt shingle roofs, some were built with metal, and then some were built with genuine slate.

That was part of the plan of the original neighborhood to vary the roof styles, and so because of that, our guidelines are pretty clear that slate has to be replaced with slate.

Um, and it's it's that bulkiness that you don't like that adds character to the roof.

Um I'm perfectly comfortable on a modern building with a simulation slate, it's a lot less expensive.

Um and I would be inclined to approve a simulation slate and even give you the flexibility to find to work with staff to try to find an alternative to the brava if there's another simulation slate that you could find that you like better, but I would be disinclined to approve the switch of roof type simply because I find it to be under our guidelines.

I definitely architectural feature of the building.

I think that there's a certain rhythm to the moment.

Yeah, yeah.

Are there any other comments?

I agree with that, and then you can keep your snow guards and always your building, I think would stand out for your neighbors.

And I would love that.

I worry about the availability.

And QBD fine.

And it's going to take eight weeks to get this product, and it'll be two weeks to explain.

We are synthetic.

We're all homeowners in this city.

But if we approved based on timing, the developers would be steamrolling this board at every single time community with them.

Um we understand.

Um are there any other deliberate comments on the I was not saying I agree with that spot.

Are we ready for a motion?

Yes.

Sure.

Thanks for the motion to approve.

I think it's that recommendation first.

Uh take out the broad home world and to explore the idea of other options.

So we are simulating.

So work with so a Bravo or something similar.

Do we have a second to that motion?

And is a roll call or a voice vote?

Sorry, one second.

This is a voice vote.

I'm sorry, who was the second?

Thank you very much.

This is a voice vote.

So we have a motion uh before the board to approve with staff recommendations, except um to authorize the applicant to work with the city on uh another synthetic slate, a similar project uh product to the Bravo, but not exactly the Bra.

Okay.

All those in favor of that motion say aye.

I any opposed.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Um can we start working?

That's a permitting.

Yeah, and you have our approval.

Yeah, I think you can go immediately to the city to get your permit.

We're the last step before permit.

And I can't wait to come see the mood.

Yeah, maybe we're just replace a huge late group with brand new sleeve.

I know basically I recommend uh reach out to staff, um, reach out to our staff as soon as you're ready.

And we can uh if you have some options that you want to look at and move the brava, we can work through that, and then you can apply for your building permit.

I think we shouldn't have to.

Yeah, we can reach out to point.

Okay, yeah.

Thank you, guys.

But it's all over.

Oh, so I got it.

Uh all right.

Well, I hope we didn't want it.

It's not fun.

I would say I think I have to let's take a five minute break.

Let's let's do let's do the um let's talk about the um design guidelines first and then we'll take a five-minute break.

Okay, do you want to tell us uh what's going on with the guidelines?

Yes, yes.

And then under other business tonight, we have um want to talk about the memo that you all have here tonight um regarding the design guidelines.

So um as we as we look forward to completing the design guidelines update now, we're gonna we're looking to change how we do it a little bit, and we would like to get uh this board to uh vote on on the proposal in front of you and to reaffirm um the the members of the of the of the design guidelines committee.

So broadly what we have we've got we've got approximately 20 um chapters left in the design guidelines, and honestly, we've done most of the really difficult ones, most of the complicated and difficult ones we've done.

So what we'll what we would like to do is basically move forward, breaking the 20 into groups of three, right?

So we'll so we'll do three chunks rather than how we've been doing it, which is meet with the design design guideline committee and then bring it to you at the next at the next hearing.

We want to break it up into chunks and do it in thirds.

So the goal is to be done within a year, and so this the memo talks about this the committee sunsetting um uh a year from today if um or sooner if uh we finish the work.

So that would that would put an end, put a sunset on the committee.

Um so we'll what we what we see happening is we see basically three month um three to four month uh uh time periods, and we would do we would mute the committee, come up with that chunk of of um uh chapters, and then we would hold and then we'd like to go before we do the BAR or take the B AR, we want to hold a uh uh open a community meeting.

So we would have uh a community meeting for anybody who was interested, we would do a presentation on the revised chapters, open open to community and take comments at that point.

Um, and then we would take and we'd come to the board with uh the uh comments we received from the community as well as draft, and then we would get the board to enact that chunk of three.

Um so that's kind of and then we would do that in three P three parts um and end up with completed design guidelines chapters.

So for the members of the design guidelines committee, it will pretty much proceed as normal, except we will have an interim community meeting led by you that the members of the design guidelines committee can attend, but don't necessarily have to attend because it's more of staff community interface.

We'd always love to have you know the uh committee members there to answer questions and things.

We have about 20 left, approximately 20.

We can do seven each time.

That's three more design guidelines to be maybe four, and we get blocked out.

Yeah.

So basically the real difference here is that rather than taking rather than bringing to the board on a piecemeal one on a time basis, yeah.

We want to do bigger chunks and then also incorporate this um community meeting.

So we want to have a chance to go to the community that's uh to with all these things and get some feedback that's outside of just this board.

So we can I mean we will also, of course, be open.

This is open public hearing, of course, and we can take uh testimony.

The first two make a lot of sense in terms of when the full board reviews it.

I don't think it matters that much if we batch them or spread them out.

Yeah, the community engagement that we're concerned.

Agreed.

And I think we we can look at that as we go.

Um it's gonna be a lot.

Yeah, break those up.

And what we'll do is we'll we'll target um we'll look at that as we go.

I think and the idea would be we would target a night like tonight where we've got a fairly uh fairly short document.

And we would say, okay, we're gonna take our batch of our first batch.

You know, maybe it doesn't exactly correspond, but but we'd like to take it in look at our look at a docket like tonight and say we'll do it then, you know, something like that.

So we can work on it as we go.

But the notion is that we do it in chunks, we incorporate this uh additional community outreach.

Yeah, um, and that's kind of how we do it.

And then like I said, I would like to get uh uh vote from the from the board to affirm this as our direction, and then also um reaffirm the membership of the board.

Um sorry, the committee.

Uh and that's James Spencer, Christine Roberts, Teresa Del Nino, Margaret Miller, Andrew Scott, and then the uh staff liaison, which are not a part of the board, we're not I mean not part of the committee, rather.

Um staff is just helping along with making edits and and uh facilitating that's uh myself and uh Brendan Harris.

Okay, let's take a you want a five minute break.

Uh can you get a vote on this promise first, please?

Oh, we have to vote on this.

Yeah, I'd like to get a vote to affirm okay to affirm um to agree with all the second second all those in favor of staff recommendations on design guidelines, committee meeting changes, say aye.

I mean opposed.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much.

We look forward to moving on with the project.

Five minute break, five minutes, and then we'll do our five per cement.

Yes.

Uh give me five minutes to do that to move around the table here and just one.

Um we can make time for public comment if the chairboard is design guidelines.

No, oh yes.

In general, um, we don't usually take general public comments, they usually have to be attacked.

Uh they might be telling you what we're gonna do this workshop on five minutes, and I'd be happy to give you an opportunity to speak, and you can talk about fiber cement, or you can talk about whatever you want.

Yeah, we'll give you three minutes.

Yeah.

When we get back, okay, you get back.

Yeah, okay.

Thank you.

Yeah, and uh does he have to fill out a second speaker form now?

No, it's uh that's fine.

We have your name.

We should it's just so we can get your name in everyone.

So we will if you're truly not interested in talking about fiber cement, then we'll just open it up to you first.

We don't hold you, but you're welcome to stay.

I can tell you all about why so we yeah, um good.

My background, I came from Houston.

Are you James Harden?

I wish I would.

As do we are, but in all seriousness, I came from Houston.

We moved here right at the end of December.

We lived in the Houston historic district.

Yeah, went through a house building then.

Um I come from England.

I went to a college with expounded in 1351.

Um, which is a little bit older than it's older than used to be.

Uh certainly have some problems.

What about one in particular on the line?

Oh yeah, bring us very much of the same line.

Okay, great, but it's like storage.

Um, we have the bag meeting and they have a requirement.

Uh screen works around the service and something and we still have that simple.

Sometimes we're a little bit more conciliated, actually.

There are several of the possibility.

So we can't do it.

So much easier now against the event.

Yeah.

Because even if we make a lot of the stage, and it's very far from that.

We only recognize medical facilities that are speaking.

They don't really have suitable.

That's a lot of nuts.

And not really processing these ones.

And we're just trying to be sort of ratio.

So how are you doing?

Doing very well.

That expires establish the slides for some reading programs or possible.

I mean, small marketing.

And so that's how you start.

Well, yes.

I don't know if the Remo's there.

Yeah, it's not a nice thing.

It's a big market, but not like college.

So it's a nice step.

Oh, so uh which man is not kind of basically.

Okay, so we live.

Yeah, what's the side of the market?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torture album.

Um already real southern sporting.

You know, where it's called like very secondary.

I don't know.

And close around.

So long time and then the flight right in there.

So you can find out.

And then you have to flight the car.

Like it all adds up to announce.

So we just still are.

Yeah, we're there.

So we're something okay.

Yeah, we're talking about they're telling me that the first time they don't really have much of it.

Usually have stuff about one.

All right, because maybe you know what's up here.

And there's stuff there.

And they don't see much.

Yeah, it's funny.

So we're just gonna go.

Yeah, something like that.

It's gonna be the developer.

So you may have to see the volume.

So I don't spend this.

It's not a big extra.

Register.

We can't seriously go.

I see what's the possible.

I mean, it's gonna be a perception.

It's just I don't think it's a big one as well.

I don't think it's anything else now.

Okay, I think anyway, so you're gonna be working in the smart.

Is there a sign that's really interesting?

I think one right.

Yeah, so I'm gonna find out about it.

So after I think that's we can also go.

Are you ready?

I know I should have done some recount.

I guess that's interesting.

All right.

We got a bunch of snacks and all the a lot.

Like homemade.

Yeah, yeah.

All types of cooking.

Or ministry hotel, topic day, and it's all stuff or added bad.

Very rich.

Or if it has people down.

Yeah, no, it's a marketing.

Yeah, it's not a good thing.

Who's running this table?

It's not you.

So you're still running first table.

It was actually slightly like rich.

Do you have any other?

All right, we're back.

We got to crack from the lineup start.

All right.

Well, I just got the floor.

Um, I think we have a public speaker.

Yeah, public speaker, so we're gonna let you speak.

And um you have three minutes and the floor is yours.

Okay, my fitness pollen link.

I've just moved here from Houston in Texas.

We bought a house on South Albert Street, which was virtually not just through a house.

And it's very nice inside, and obviously it has the architectural features for whatever the historic district are.

In Houston, we bought uh 2019 we bought a 1920 house added to it.

It was in the Houston historical district.

They very much took the attitude that one wanted to maintain the character of the house, but ensure that it was livable for the next 30 years.

So that meant that well.

Yeah, maybe a little less strict than what we see here.

But it was very important that the house was livable the next 30 years.

Now, I've come from England originally, but we moved to Houston in 1983, so I've been here a long time in the States.

I'm a citizen, but I can't be president, which is probably just what I would be and for you guys.

Um I went to a college that was founded in 1351 in England.

They have the old library, and they are underfunded.

What that means is the library looks very historical, but maybe things are they haven't been brought up to date.

I don't know which is better to bring things up to date or leave it historically.

Moving to here, the big thing I see with Alexander which wasn't around in 1800 or 1850 or even 1900 is played every two minutes.

And I think that that really detracts from the old town.

One of the big things that you can do is to allow residents to have double pane windows, and that would make the livability really much better.

And at the same time, as long as the windows look like original windows, maybe wood frame.

In Houston, we have wood frame windows that we put into the house we read in.

I think it would really help.

But you think about allowing that because it would make living in old town Alexander much better.

Any value.

Just so you know, we do allow double pane windows in a uh style that has no lunch-ins, no grills.

If it's a one over one window, you can have a double pane roll.

Uh lead over two.

Either from a historic building.

One over one or two over two.

Or two over two.

Beyond that.

We will approve that, even in a historic building.

And then we're looking at some new options, right?

In City Hall.

Yeah, city hall.

So we have a triple pane.

It's a double pane that's but it but it's a double pane window that looks like a single pane window.

So there's really not much air in the page.

Right.

It basically it's it's separated by a vacuum rather than an inert gas.

Yes.

And so it's it has a very high level of um uh thermal performance while maintaining the look of a single pane.

That'll be might allow with multiple pane.

Right, I think that's really that's gonna come on.

I think that'll come into residential construction soon.

I mean, it's so you're gonna see that in City Hall.

When they replace all these windows, they're gonna have a new style that is double pane.

Um, but we do allow those something just as long as it's fine.

I have window from that perspective, I will fall unlocking.

And at some point in the future, we may replace assuming windows in the house we have, but that would be fine.

Yeah, and as long as the configuration is one over one or two over two, you can talk to Mr.

Conky.

And one of one other cabinet.

If they're architecturally extinct, well, if they're historic windows.

If they're original historic windows, then we don't want them replaced.

But that's the only caveat.

Yeah, 1800.

We don't we don't we don't want to lose our original material.

Yeah, but at some point we can have that.

I will stroll.

Hopefully that clarifies though.

We are updating our guidelines, uh, hopefully to make them more clear to members everybody from the public so that uh that message isn't literally to the not to come to the board to tell us what you'll appreciate.

Well, I I honestly think that from my experience, the windows and actually the fiber cement siding is about the biggest improvements you can make such that your houses will be good the next 30 years.

Thank you.

Excuse me on fire.

All right, Mint.

All right, so let's go.

And tell, so I'm gonna walk around here to the middle, and I'm gonna try not to have my back into anybody, but I probably will because that being said, so I wanted to talk about fiber cement tonight.

Um we the board sees fiber cement all the time.

Um, and not all fire, not all fiber cement is the same.

So that's kind of the theme of the of the of the topic tonight.

You know, I think we I'm gonna talk about some that's on residential, you know, single family residential construction, and then some on that's used on larger parts.

Um, you know, I think we talk, we have this thing where we say, okay, fiber cement and everything, everyone has an has an idea of what that means, and I want to show you some options tonight to talk about what that fiber cement is a type is a type of material.

It is and there's lots of range within it.

So agenda we can look at this.

So I want to start off by first off, and we do this all the time.

When we talk about any material, um, first thing first, retain stored material.

Like that's and I think that's fundamental to everything we do in this board and everything we do in our design guidelines, is retain historic material in place as best as possible.

Yeah.

So I just wanted to sort of start off by saying that as a as the priority.

Um this is uh point from our design guidelines, but it basically says what I just said.

So what we want to the way we do this though, whenever someone's says they want to replace wood siding, we go out, we say, well, first we need to find out if it's stored.

And so we go out there and we'll look at it, and if it's if what's on there is clearly modern, we can tell for that through um nails and other methods.

We say, okay, can you cut a two-foot square uh hole in what's there and let's find out what's underneath?

Because quite often we have found the original historic sighting underneath uh a modern pine siding.

Yeah, we can that's been great.

We've seen that a lot of times.

And what we do is then we talk, then we work with the owner, we say we want you to keep the historic, it's there.

The historic siding is generally um older, older growth.

It's really strong wood, doesn't rot, it's fantastic.

You can keep it, you can take what we talk about what we work with them to do is basically remove it, uh, installate the walls, do like a modern wall, and then put it back.

And then often what we'll do is we'll say, okay, you don't have enough to do the full house.

Rot down low, there's rot at windows, things like that.

But maybe you have enough to do the front.

So we'll say, okay, take it all down, we'll cull through it, we'll get enough to do the front, and you put the original material on the front, and then you go with something modern on the side.

So that's that's just kind of how we do it.

I know you guys, I think know this, you've been through this enough times to know that, but I want to reiterate that as kind of like our starting point is you know, what can we do to retain which okay?

Um, so these here's the guidelines we have currently in this.

So this I want to again want to point over back to this in the old historic district.

Um, any replacement siding visuals won't call it right away, it must be wood on an early building.

Later building composite siding such as fiber cement can't be used um if it's smooth finish and and paint.

Parker gray is a little bit different.

Parker gray, you can use composite siding on the on the sides and rear of an early building.

Um again, the front must be wood.

Um and then later it's obviously good.

So this is our these are the guidelines we'll be working under for quite some time.

Can you remind me to approve an early building fiber cement for someone who didn't have access in right?

And these are the administrative guides.

Yeah, which is what we can do administratively.

Yeah, so whenever we bring something to you, that's a great point.

Yeah, we had a we had a project where um there was a wall.

It was an alley, but the neighborhood was like it was like a two feet from the neighbor's property, and it was like kind of in the back.

And and the board said, and the board said, well, we're with their the board was more concerned about um damage to the building from water infiltration.

If you if you couldn't maintain the you can't maintain it, it's gonna damage the building, it's gonna you're gonna lose storage fabric that way.

So you made an exceptional, and that's that's what we do.

I mean, whenever we bring something to the board, the whole idea is we can't do administratively, but here's a reason that you can make an exception.

Here's the guidelines.

Oh, wrong way.

Okay.

So what is fiber cement side?

Fiber cement siding is a uh it's a it's a man-made material, it's made with water, wood pulp, fly ash, portless cement.

It's basically uh pressed together into boards or panels um that have all different types of of um attack methods, and they come in different different shapes, shapes and sizes and things, but all fiber cement is basically that.

And it's important to know fly ash, we don't know fly ash.

Fly ash is a byproduct of uh burning fold.

So it's a it's a it's a green product because it does actually take a byproduct that has some skew gets or something with it, and we can actually turn it into a uh building material.

It's essentially concrete, basically, yes, and yes.

Right rating, so that's also like fly ash provide a fire rating.

I think that um there's beyond fly ash the Portland Center, yeah.

It's symmetitious, yeah.

So I mean it's it's a from a technical standpoint.

It's a it's a it's a very good material in a lot of ways because it's it's fire, it's fire resistant, it's inner, you won't grow old.

Um you can set the blowtorch up to it all day, it'll never burn.

Um very well, it's easy to work with.

So there's a lot of good, a lot of reasons to use um fiber cement fiber cement siding or panels.

Um it just it has some issues in terms of uh compatibility with historic materials and and and in terms of how you install it.

I mean the installation is really important.

Yes, but we've all seen bad fiber cement.

We all have seen bad fiber cement.

So uh let's move on a little bit.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go through here.

Are some of the common um products we see?

These are by no means all fiber cement, this is a cross section.

And in broad terms, yeah, quick.

So in broad terms, um I these are gonna escalate in cost as we go through them.

And so I'm just gonna start.

I'm gonna I'm gonna start handing some stuff out here as we go.

So this is hardy plank.

So this is what we see on residential single family residential quite often.

Um you can see it's installed through the face, but it's a lap siding.

Um, and so it's uh it's concealed by the one above it.

Um, we typically like to see the stuff installed using uh sleepers to create a uh air trench money.

Yes, so basically what you do is you're instead of attaching it directly to the wall, you put in um little slots, uh small pieces of no small pieces of the slab.

It's like a lab.

Right, exactly.

The lath, and it creates an air, an area of air behind it.

Oh, it allows the wall to breathe.

So it creates a kind of like a uh green screen type of system.

Oh, that's how we recommend it down behind the I didn't know that's it's how we tend that's how we recommend it.

Um just allowed while this stuff doesn't grow mold, other parts of the wall could be factory record.

Yes, yes, and there's different ways of doing it.

There are you can actually get um a pre-manufactured lath that from them.

Um I did it in my house, honestly.

We went got some um uh pressure treated plywood and scripts on the wall and screwed through it, and it was it worked great.

So um, this is what you see.

This comes in the 516th inch uh thickness, and that's what you see here in these samples, which you're not passing out.

Um, the things that our design guidelines do talk about here is if we're going to use this, we want to have it be uh smooth, um painted, and we don't so we don't like the wood, we don't like the fake wood texture, keep it smooth.

Um, it does come uh sometimes pre painted, so it'll come from the factory with a paint uh paint color, uh, and then you just have to touch up the edges and things.

It'll last longer.

It's all different.

So and it comes in a variety of uh widths, five and a quarter, six and a quarter, seven, eight and a quarter.

Um it's a pretty this is a pretty simple siding.

It doesn't have doesn't have decorative uh profiles, it's just a lab siding, but this is really what we see commonly in residential single fan resolution.

We also see this in huge sheets though, right?

Well, we're gonna get to that.

We're gonna get to that.

Yeah, right.

So this is an artisan size.

So now I'm I'm presenting this knowing that this product is very hard to get.

It is um it's either it's on and off the market.

Um, I wanted to present it because it's something you might see, and I wanted to be aware of it.

It is an upgrade, it's called party setting, it's uh upgrade to the to their which is fast for map.

Um, it's a five-eighth inch thick, so it's a nice heavy thickness.

It comes in a variety of um of profiles, the V groove, ship laps, things like that.

This is on and off the market.

Every by the time I talk about it, it's it's turned around again.

Um it's very difficult to get.

Um, it'd be great if they would be if they would be more consistent with it, but they're just not.

Um and every time I go to a conference or something or talk to them, I'm like, where's your artist?

Oh, we've taken it away.

And then I'll go to the next conference, and there'll be a whole thing on it.

So it's it's this is by no means something that we can like count on.

But I want you to know what you'd be aware of it in case you see uh presentation uh submission that has party artists and siding on it, what you would understand what that is.

It's a it's an upgrade to what we passed over the lap side.

Is it a nice thing?

It's it's a it's uh it's available in um it's and with different widths and not different profiles.

The nice thing about this one, the other one is just lap.

This has got these V group, ship lab square channels, it's got all kinds of different um profiles.

Sorry?

That's not true.

It does not have trim.

It's in a main term.

Oh, yeah, you don't have the germ on it.

You see a lot in all they don't sell it.

Whatever reason that well, it's it costs more to build to produce, and they don't seem to be they sometimes they say they don't sell enough of it to make it worthwhile.

Oh, okay.

Because everyone just goes with the lap siding.

Yeah, and the lap setting is I mean, like I said, the lap side is for your that's your one of the mill, I mean, literally available at Home Depot.

So just that's that's what you see a lot.

That's your when a lot of people think far think fiber cement, this is what they think of because it is like it's you know, it's the zero cops, right?

It's the this brand.

All right, next one.

Okay, party siding architectural panel.

Very similar in in makeup to the um the lap siding, um, but it is slightly different.

So we're just doing a partsmith setup.

Um we're doing uh so the hardy siding panels are this is what you guys see on multi-invest to use in residential.

Whenever a lot of times when they put when they say they're gonna put um five smith panels on, a lot of times it's this.

Um it is sometimes used in single family, where if you have like a more modern wing on something, they want to be panels, they use this.

Um this does not have a concealed fastening option.

It is always screwed through the through the front of the board.

Um they use things that cover the the screws or nails with things to match the board, but you will always see a little dimple you'll always accept it there.

An important thing is kind of hard to see here.

Um I I try to put this in the in the in the little diagrams in the bottom.

There's two options for the for the edge of these things.

So it's a flange, essentially it's it's essentially it goes into a metal flange.

Um, and you can either have the return flange that this on the so like here's your panel, and it overlaps the front of the of the of the panel, and it creates basically like a uh window picture frame around.

So you say you'll see the panel and you see a matching metal.

It's usually matching color, um, but you do see that metal thing, it kind of creates a picture frame.

We tend not to like that.

It and so it gives a weird sort of uh sort of grid shape pattern to it.

Problem with that is it's very difficult to align.

Um so if you're gonna, I mean if you could if you can align perfectly, we can have these things lined up just beautifully and have an amazing grid that could be can be really nice.

And that to align in the field is very difficult.

Um basically just attached it along.

I don't know what anybody else did.

To me, this is pretty the worst use of violative cement because it goes on quickly, it's very inexpensive to install.

So you see it a lot on on me buildings that aren't well designed.

And this you can see it all over the place.

I don't know that architectural panels or something that are being full of tablet.

There might be some uses.

I think only something like this when you're not trying to use the oh shoot.

Yeah, like they break the panel down.

I've seen it where it's a smaller sheet.

Yeah, and you can cut usually done nice.

Yeah, you can also have this constant.

You have to pay attention to the details of how it's gonna be and then the corners are really important because you can do you can do an open corner, or you can try to overlap so like the two pieces can look that, or you can overlap one.

What's the better way to it depends on what you're looking for?

You know, it gives the it takes away the crisp edge.

Yeah.

So it had if you're trying to create like this screening type of feel, then that's appropriate where you have an open corner.

It just depends.

But the problem is it's only 56 and 516 inch this edge.

So when you start thinking about like this thing looking exposing the edge of it at 516, that's pretty thin.

Yeah.

Um so when I was talking about with the mountain method, when you have that metal trim, you can either have it return and create that that frame, or you can lose that flange and it just sees the edge of the um material.

In terms of lining things up, it's better without the frame because you're lining up boards rather than the metal, which is a little bit easier.

You're also now you're seeing the edge of the of the material, which is has to be field painted normally because it's gonna be you're gonna get a four-way sheet and then cut it.

But you're supplying a lot of design or product, not encrassment.

A lot of people aren't designing, they're just saying throw this up.

I mean, this there's stuff relative to extension.

It requires um in order to be done right, and it can't be done right.

I mean, I'm not n none of these materials are good or bad inherently.

Um in order for these to be done right, it needs to be carefully designed and carefully installed.

And the reason people use this is because they're cheap and they don't want to spend the money like on carefully designed.

As I said, hasn't both installed.

As we go through the to my presentation here, things things get are gonna get more expensive as we go through.

I'm just highlighting we're gonna have to figure it out for the diet design guidelines, and I don't know.

It doesn't I don't speak with all the time.

You know, yeah, I think the exposed fasteners are uh show stop.

I think so too.

Because even with the lab, you can hide the fast but with this.

I think it depends on the use of the front of a house.

Yeah, it's somebody's back edition.

I might not show it most.

Or if it's if it's six floors up.

Yeah.

And and like I said, if it's not a full sheet, I can't stand when somebody just takes the four by sheet, run it.

And it's rotable on the ice.

Every every addition, every new build that has to be.

It's put nicely, and I think you just have you have if someone wants to do it, we have to hold their each fire about okay.

We need to submit the full design for this and not just mark cry.

Yeah, right.

And I think that um, yeah, exactly.

And and and like I said, this is often most often used in multi-cumbe residential.

So this isn't this is gonna be on on a typical product that we would see.

You're gonna have a podium building, meaning you're gonna have concrete for the first two doors, perhaps, and then from there up will be stick bill.

Um when you get to the upper levels, they can't really use masonry anymore.

So now they have to look for an alternative material.

The board has often said we want metal on street facing and perhaps use use fire crit on other other um facing elevations, interior facing elevations, courtyard facing, stuff like that.

So that's what the sport has done in the past.

But anyway, this is really fairfax.

They agree to use ancient uh right replay.

Right, right, yeah.

I would say we should try to for larger projects, which is doing something nicer than four by H.

I'm just thinking about how we write a regularly sheet.

How do you do you do it based on thickness or fastening style?

Because we can't do based on price.

Yeah, you can't do it based on the large property for small projects and that's the other side.

And well, but you can do like in terms of scope architecturally speaking, like a small project, it might well go.

I mean, you can delineate between single family residential and uh technical and larger buildings.

Yeah, well, we have different um design, I mean design guidelines for different projects.

So the single family residential, you know, could be you know, I'm reading maybe like Dwayne Neal's uh office on Alfred Street was really quite large as he's office.

So if somebody buys it, now it's a single family resident.

But they're gonna be single.

I think that we should be distinguishing the use of a building.

I guess it's more the type of more types of typology.

I mean, and you know, and again, this is not I mean we're not writing the guidelines tonight.

I mean, really we're gonna have to but I want you I want to educate you on the different types and let's think about how we do this.

I mean, I understand your point.

It shouldn't be based on use, but it should be some sort of technology.

Maybe I don't know how we do that.

What we've talked about is Teresa and I both had issues with windows, and now we developers do whatever they want, even if it looks like a single family home, it's now the entrance to the department building, or we like the phone.

Yeah, so it should be yeah, these basically.

I'm thinking more architectural typology, and maybe we find a way to delay architectural typology.

Yeah, but you're saying should be looking at this one to put the guys.

Um well somewhat, yes.

This is this is with an eye towards the guidelines.

This is also just in educating you guys when you're gonna see projects come forward.

Yeah.

As you see projects coming forward, I want you to know what you're looking at.

Um understand when they say when they say fiber cement that you guys are have have what you need to ask the questions what is this really so just a question.

It's probably good, but the uh our guidelines allow fibers in that siding, right?

So side, let's say you're in the fair.

So can they just take a four-by-a-chip that's five percent and have a lot of exposed factors?

I think it actually says lap siding.

It does say lap size and doesn't say concealed fasteners.

Well, lap setting would always be concealed.

I think it's if it doesn't, that's a fair already.

I think it says, I think it says five percent lab siding.

It says uh it says lap siding, but it also says architecturally appropriate.

So that iconic gives us the covering to um make the judgment call regarding whether or not we feel comfortable approving it based on the existing architecture.

I think it's even that requires an admin.

So if somebody were to come in to the side of their house in Park Greg and say, I'm gonna I'm gonna put up uh large four-way sheets everywhere, we would say we're not being proved that administrative code of the board.

So we would so it's covered, it is it is it's not gonna be something that's gonna jump.

Well, but it then again, like an apartment building, we wouldn't want a uh six-story apartment building to have lap signing on it.

Um but you could, I mean, there was yeah, we saw that there was a project last week where last time that had um some lap siding of the recessed fourth floor.

I think there, yeah, and it was an interesting one before.

Well, and it's interesting because using the lap siding of the fourth floor kind of created a uh lighter fourth floor, because it was a nice um contrast to the heavy brick that all of a sudden you use this lighter material on the on the top floor.

Yeah, which was interesting.

Yeah, I know.

I'm just thinking about what Amiro was saying quite correctly, is if you you're trying to clad your building in like your multi-family building in fiber cement and it's five stories tall, and that's gonna have to have some more visual interest than just lab siding.

Right.

So we need very basic builder.

Right, right.

The architect would think about that, right?

I mean, ultimately that's gonna come down.

If someone comes in with that, I'm gonna I'm gonna first off I suggest you come up with some different materials um to make your building merch thing, and then ultimately it's gonna become the board.

Okay, this is not something that's just gonna happen.

So let's keep moving.

Um, Nichiha.

Okay, I'm gonna pass out some Nietzsche ha.

So we'll just use a different ones here.

Um just picking some random ones here.

Uh let's see, we got a couple others.

So here's a couple up, a couple others here.

We've got a nice little same.

It's got a nice big black one here.

I mean, that's I feel like that could look cool, like missed in with like with that somehow, you know.

Yeah, we just get dirty.

It's cool looking.

Anyway, so this is so this is Nishiha.

So um you could have all the wrong three.

I don't mind this.

That's a statement.

Yeah.

So Nishinha comes in half inch thick.

Uh I'm sorry, let me back up first.

There Nishia makes a siding.

What I'm showing you right now, right?

I probably jumped the gun here.

This is this is the uh these are the boards.

I wanted to point out to make the plank.

Um and here's a here's our plank siding.

How does it differ from the hardy?

Um it's thicker, it's a half inch thick.

Oh, oh.

It's considered a little bit of a is the fastening different.

No, it's similar.

You can see here on this in this diagram, it's still it's still a lap siding.

They don't have all the all the um decorative uh profiles, so it's a lap sidder.

So it'll still be going, they'll they'll be going through, and then you cover with the next one on top of them.

Very, very similar to the hardy.

Um is is a little thicker.

Um considered an upgrade to party.

We don't see it very often.

What you do?

So the wall panels, I'm sorry, jump the gun.

This is the wall panels.

This is what we so this is the Nietzsche wall wall service panels.

Now this one comes in five-eighths inch thick.

They have a concealed fashion.

I'm gonna show you this thing really cool.

And I'm gonna I'm gonna, I don't know why they use the sample, the um color that they did, but it's a really cool um display.

It shows how this stuff is actually attached.

I don't know why they use this fully.

All right, let me back up.

So basically what they do, they when each and how does their panels, they have a concealed uh concealed metal framework that gets attached to the wall.

So it's like a it's a GERS system, essentially.

And so this this framework here, you can see it from the sides, um, gets attached to the to the wall, and then your panels clip into it.

So this is how you get um no exp no exposed fastening.

So that runner at the bottom.

Yes, you start with the run at the bottom, exactly, and then it just builds on top of each other.

Okay.

Um it's it's it could be by doing this, you get a lot of nice things.

You can say true rain screen, so you get that nice drawing effect behind the wall, it allows you to do installation on the outside of the um the the water barrier.

So it creates the really nice, nice, nice high performing wall.

Um and keep it nice, a nice look because it doesn't have um the exposed fasteners.

Um it also, you know, when you it's also in terms of laying this out when you install this stuff, basically you install the GERT system, and then you just put things into it.

So in terms of alignments, you're not going you're not going panel by panel alignment to get the lineup.

You're gonna install a metal framework that you can you know install using laser guidance and you can get a very, very crisp um uh pattern.

So if you want if you wanted to do a pattern of different ones, maybe you want to do that that um a glossy black one mixed in with some of the gray ones, do this kind of interesting pattern.

Um you can do that.

Um also this one, this hot panels also come with um custom uh end pieces and corner pieces, so you can get instead of having like what I was talking about with the challenge with the um party panels, you can get a wider corner.

So that's what you see.

That's a micro corner, it's not a minor hard.

It's a metal.

I mean it's not it's not a metal.

No, no, no, it's not it's not the part of it.

It's meant to match it.

It's a metal corner.

Yes, and it's meant to match it.

It is it is actually metal, yes, yes.

Okay, but it's in but it's integral to other systems.

Is the metal paintable if someone's yeah, it's all painting.

But it's it would be it's an integral to their system as opposed to some of the other ones where you're buying a third-party trim piece to kind of look like it.

This is part of their system.

So anyway, I thought this was a really cool um thing that they sent me.

I don't know why they picked like blue.

You can see it easily.

I I got this one from one of the reps, and I was like, ooh, I'm gonna show this one off.

So for architectural wall panels, have a concealed fastener.

Concealed fasteners on arm is is really helpful.

I mean, like I said, it gives you the ability to create really precise lines, um, gets rid of that that flange problem on the corners.

It's it's a true rain screen, so you don't have to um uh um you don't have to get those things little caulk lined up.

This one you actually can install it as a cock system if it wants to, and there are some times for our test that you have to.

So um uh can be done.

Could this be on uh like a single family home or is that too small?

Um it would be okay.

Well, this I mean you could do it, I think if you had, I can see where like if you had a let's say you had a modern, you got an old an older home and you wanted to do a modernist addition to the home, and you can have large panels.

But this typically do it bigger.

You could do it if you wanted, I mean it's just getting small to me.

It's hard to get small.

Oh, yes, you have to buy a lot of it.

So I mean, like when I bought mine, I have this on my own.

Yeah, this exact one.

I have that exactly the side of the black, black which line.

Um so if you if you do a modern addition on the back of your house, it's very appropriate.

But it's hard to get in small quantities, like I ended up getting a batch of leftover from another project that they got shipped back, and you're like, oh, we got this 300 square feet, and just add it all.

Yeah, you can't buy square feet, you gotta take it all.

And it's not, and it's not Humphipo, it's no, you know, we have the stuff in the back.

We're gonna get to the into the more difficult stuff.

So I you know I was gonna say this is definitely on the commercial projects.

It's not so much more expensive that we shouldn't be asking to say like in terms of versus the hardy architecture.

So it's more expensive than hardy, but as bill goes on, it's getting more expensive.

So this is like the next cheapest thing you can do that actually looks decent.

Where does this in terms of price compared to something like a terracotta air?

Oh, much cheaper.

This could be in the range, I think generally of the metal.

Metal panels can be very, very, very expensive, but they can be pretty cheap.

You get what you pay for.

We can do it, we can do a whole other thing about metal in terms of like the oil canning and the deformation that you get from gets dented, you just see well and the metal panels if they're not if they're not properly being forced and they're not thick enough, they will actually be deformed in the well because of the heat.

Yeah, um, and they get really wavy looking.

Much more stable.

This is a very, very stable uh material.

It's just so better than metal and stuff.

Um it's not none of that.

I would never say that anything is necessarily better than the other.

It's just it's a different material, different application, and and it has different closure.

Okay, so I don't ever want to say something is nothing here we see is bad or worse.

It's just a matter of if it uses it's used properly.

Also, I don't like personal things.

I don't like the application of accent wood tones.

So yeah, generally I don't like freaking work.

All right, sericlad.

In and out of ceraclide.

This is the um terracotta, right?

It looks like the light stuff.

Oh, it's not very fast.

No, no, the certain side is not.

This should be hard to see if it's texture.

That's really nice product.

No, this is a look alike.

Oh, yeah.

So they allows it looks like stuff.

But they also have some of your stuff over here, which is like this has a terracotta look through it.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah, yeah, it does.

So the teracata can be just sideways.

This is open.

So I can see I can see something like this where you have that texture.

You can stay with some of these and then it's flat.

I like red or masonry.

Um, and again, see the it's hard to try to say exactly because this goes up so much faster.

Yeah, it's with labor process.

So labor cost is different.

Um, you know, it's it's you're starting to try to look at the difference between um material versus labor and stuff with some um serify um it this does not have exposed fasteners.

Um this is also done on a girth.

Um they also have they also have pre-formed corners, um either metal or the stone um wide variety of patterns.

It's five eighths inch thick, so it's a nice thick material.

It has to be thick in order to get these um these patterns, right?

I mean, you can you know you can't get you can't get a pattern like that in a five sixteenths or no quarter inch.

So you need a these are five eight cents.

You can see here.

Yeah, these are these are these are good things.

Yeah, so these are nice material again, very, very stable.

Yes, remember every we're climbing it, we're climbing in cost, right?

So that's something you know.

I know this board does not consider cost, but when someone's coming to you with a uh project that is um tight on budget, something like this is gonna be probably a big ass.

So just keep in mind, but again, nothing here is is out of range.

There are places I would I always I've always made this record made this argument to contractors every year that um you know if if you have something that repeats a thousand times and you cut the cost of that, that's much more impactful than cutting the cost of something that happens once.

So if you had if you had an uh uh an element on the building where like it's an entrance or something, and you really want it to highlight it, using a big material, a specific material like in a limited area is much more cost effective, and then you cut the cost in something else where it happens a thousand times, right?

So it's a just a matter of playing.

But you know, again, expensive but very pretty.

All right, equitone.

Equitone is some very cool material.

Also very expensive.

It's technically high performance concrete.

This is high performance concrete.

This is very wow, I want to show you guys that I want to show you guys the high performance.

It's high performance.

Um, interestingly, when I say that you can't do this based on thickness, this is only a quarter inch, it's thin.

Yeah.

This is a high performance, high performance material.

It's put into the GERT system, and it's it's one of the few things that I say.

It looks good regardless if it's fastened.

It does.

Yeah, and that's my second little bit.

It looks like a it's a nice property.

It's a very pretty and it can act speed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's just sort of nice.

Yeah, this soda is this stuff is is not easy, but it's a very high-end material.

And look at this.

I mean, this this is a picture on the left here, these cool patterns and things.

So they sort of it's like a like an undulated.

Yeah, right.

Right.

What size?

Okay, so it comes in big basically.

It comes in sheets and cut it down, um, four quarter inch thick.

Uh again, can be either exposed or not.

Um, beautiful stuff.

That's really nice.

Like I said, we're we're we're getting our prices are going up as we go.

We have one more stop.

Um more expensive optional.

Yes.

Swiss Pearl.

Swiss.

It is.

It is.

That's an expensive.

At least whatever does their marketing.

Swiss Pearl is made in Switzerland.

That's glasses.

Because it's made in Switzerland.

I use this on believe it or not, I used this on a um uh public elementary school in DC about 10 years ago.

Oh, it's been beautiful stuff.

Um size.

Here, I'm just gonna pass the bottom through.

Same with that.

Um also very it's these are five stages.

That's just in sample.

So the the panels themselves are five eighths, five sixteenths in thick.

Um actually this one only has exposed fasteners for whatever reason, they just do uh it's just the way that they install them.

Where's the fastener going?

It's like that's like the style.

It is, it's just a style.

And usually when I did it, we actually um didn't color match the fasteners, it's steel.

And yeah, we use them as a as like a stainless steel uh fastener.

So you solve basically like rivets essentially.

It depends on the size of the border.

You make them all line up.

Yeah, again, you can if you make them all line up, it's like a really cool little thing.

Yeah.

Um really cool material.

Uh like I said, it's it is it's called Swiss Prof.

Um kinds of problems with supply chain.

Um it's very pretty.

Yeah.

So again, but the the exposed fashioners can be concealed if you want.

No, it will only comes with exposed dot.

Would you paint them or you just you can paint them to match?

It's all different types of things.

You can paint them to match, you can leave them exposed.

And like what we did, we actually had them stand out.

We painted, we had them the uh uh stainless steel, yeah against a background so that they jumped out.

So we wanted this little rivet type effect.

So you've done more than you can get to the create.

Yeah, they would create the sort of pattern.

So these call painting, right?

These are these are not filled, these are not fairly.

I don't these in the serif batteries if you're talking about.

Yeah, these are if you see both of these.

You feel yeah, yeah.

And that is an option to paint to get a color that matches it.

What do they call painting?

No, like the faster that you can match yourself.

You get a kit, and you want it feel painted because if you screw it in, you'll scratch it to the point where you want to go and touch it up to it.

You'll probably you'll feel painted with their thing.

Yeah, pretty much.

You're not going to benchmark more.

Yeah, it's not a labor cost.

Yeah, it's this again.

I want to show you this because I'm trying to show you the full breadth of parts go is a is a multi multi-use material, everything from so real feature element.

Um maybe you've got a entirely print built.

And you want to highlight the entrance, yeah.

And you want to use something really cool, and you're thinking, should I use stone or should I use um uh uh swiss bullet?

You know, Swiss Pro gives you different colors.

It's a more it's a more stones and have a natural variety, which is beautiful, but sometimes you're looking for that really monotone, really through color, really deep color, and a stone doesn't really give you that, so maybe you're trying to get something else.

So I just wanted to introduce it as you know, if you're gonna do like a feature thing, this might be right.

Anyone's come to me talking about using porcelain.

I've seen some porcelain, yeah.

It's really pretty.

I have not seen no, I've not I've not seen anyone come forward with it.

It's very expensive.

It is porcelain a rating screen, or is it used like XI?

It's a right screen.

It goes like a plus hitting thing.

Yeah, make up a slight glass, yeah.

It's beautiful material, beautiful stuff.

That's very they just print no audio.

Yeah.

It's just like porcelain tile one we'll have more.

It'll like anything.

Yeah, so it's a cool material for it.

Umosa.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But they make a new large sheet since you know that's like well, we'll figure out hopefully you'll be thinking about this too for design that's a little bit.

So that's all that's all I have.

Um let's see.

So next next hearing in a couple weeks, we've got uh let's see, we've got a dog, right?

Oh yeah, this is not too bad, but it's at the Mark Center.

At the Mark Center.

Um nothing that you haven't seen right now.

I mean, you know, we're gonna see you saw 732 North Washington, it's coming back.

Um the ones on North Columbus on North uh Columbus are coming back.

Have we approved the town homes over uh on the block where you're gonna run their packs?

No, they'll be coming back.

They just got approval from second concept.

You're not doing another concept.

No, no, no.

They've already been approved by council.

The second design was actually a lot better.

You guys loved it.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, ready to adjourn?

Yeah, if you want to help carry in this stuff.

Um yeah, we'll bear it we'll be right.

Uh oh, the meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.