Hey.

This meeting is called to order.

We'll proceed tonight with the applications and other agenda items in the order indicated on the docket.

Limited copies of tonight's agenda, and each staff report are available over here in the corner of the room on a first come, first served basis.

If you are an applicant, be sure to read the staff report for your case if you haven't yet.

For each application, we will proceed in the following order of business.

The applicant or his or her representative may present the proposal or be available for questions to the board.

It's not required.

The board encourages applicants to be thorough but concise.

The public will have an opportunity to speak on each application.

Any members of the public interested in speaking on a docket item should fill out speaker forms, which are over there.

And uh hand them to the staff, any staff member here.

Um you'll have to state your name and an address for the record.

Members of the public have three minutes to speak on each item.

Those representing community organizations will have five minutes.

After the public comment is complete, the applicant may respond to any public comments.

Following this, the board will close public discussion and begin deliberation.

During deliberation, the board will probably ask the majority of its questions of the applicant.

After deliberation, the board may take the following actions on each application.

Vote on a motion to issue, can um conditionally issue or deny a certificate of appropriateness.

Upon request by an applicant, vote on a motion to defer taking action.

Vote to continue the case until the next available public hearing, or vote uh proceeds to the next docket item without taking action.

If the board takes no action at the next regularly scheduled meeting, the certificate of appropriateness would be automatically issued.

Want to make a couple of mo uh comments on voting?

Motions pass by a simple majority vote.

If a tie vote happens, that means uh the motion is denied.

And if the board votes to deny an application, a similar application will not be considered for a period of one year the denial.

The uh board occasionally takes up matters other than applications for a certificate of appropriateness.

The public will have an opportunity to comment on those matters.

Any uh decision by the board can be appealed to the city council.

Uh appeals will be made within 14 days according to the zoning ordinance.

And uh so today our first item is consideration of the minutes of the May 20th DAR hearing.

Do any members wish to propose modifications to those minutes?

Does any member of the public wish to offer any modifications to the May 20th minutes?

If not, can I have a motion on the minutes?

So moved.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Is that the second?

All those in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed say nay.

Nay.

All right, the minutes are adopted.

Next, what do we have, Mr.

Punky?

All right, first item tonight under unfinished business.

I just previously deferred to AR 2026.

That's the four-three of the fourth district.

Request for new construction at 1126 print street.

The applicant is Prince Prince Corner Real Estate LLC represented by State Clinton.

All right, Mr.

Winski, come on up.

You yeah, you can stand here.

You can rest your A V card.

Yeah, all right.

So thank you.

For the record of Stephen Kalinski uh said 104 Northwest Street, the artifact board for the project 1126 Print Street.

Previously had this application approved, and here's the original approval from 2010.

Umic times, it didn't happen, unfortunately.

Uh, but you know, here we are about 15 years later coming back with this application.

So we we submitted essentially what was the original application and different board set of eyes, different concerns, different papers.

I get it.

So we were challenged to do better.

So I like to think that we've come back and then we've done a little bit better.

We've uh listened to your the comments, you know, from the citizens, but as well as the board.

And yeah, this is the original.

Um this is the first design.

This is the second design.

And which you can see here between the two.

We said pair of movers on the bay.

We're separated on our first iteration, and our second iteration are they together.

You can see the bay is slightly wider on this iteration.

And then on the next new iteration, that the bay has been reduced.

What that's done is that it's helped bring the uh the ultimate height of the the roof video down.

Um, just because the root peak isn't nearly as high, but but but also at the same time the back.

pair of movers on the bay were separated on our first iteration and our second iteration are they getting together and if you can see the bay is slightly wider on this iteration and on the next or newer iteration that the the bay has been reduced what that's done is that it's helped bring the uh the ultimate height of the the roof the fine down um just because the the root peak isn't nearly as high but but but also at the same time the back you could see the the number of risers we were able to reduce one and push it a little bit deeper into the ground so we picked up overall about a foot of depth now our first floor ceiling heights are nine foot four inches our second floor third floor both eight feet high so it's about as low as I think it's reasonable to go under under the circumstances I wish I could scoop you know squeeze more out of it but the that's that's that's where I've done um there's a back so it looked like so you know this was our presentation ability back 15 years ago we've upped it just a little here and this is uh the original design I submitted and then this is the revised as you could see kind of jump in between the two sorry that's the revised design but jumping between the two you can see how the building steps down with what what we've done.

Now the the base of buildings also stepped back one of the things that I should point out is if you look up at the roof we have the synthetic slate covering the roof the not only the pyramidal shape roof of the bay but but also the mansard coming back in the side whereas before it's washed out on this slide there but we have the brick going all the way up the mansar roof so we stop the the brick at that cornice level to help kind of define it so that we're presenting a two story face of this building to the whole concerns another issue is because we've stepped the the um the bay over to the right a little bit and created the thing we ended up pulling the um gate between the two properties a little bit further back just to give it a little bit more relief from the road there we go the gates forward now now it's back kind of buried trying to make that distinction uh the other thing we did is we carried the brick not only across the front but all the way down the side and around the back um and we eliminated all that party that was you know originally planning to to go in that place and the only place that we do have heart in this product proposed is along this western elevation which is blocked by the corner building here so it's it's a non-visible elevation at nighttime rendition is a little bit clear a little less washed out I think in terms of some of the details of the building okay the back the back of the building jump there we go so what we had before was just a large kind of plain box with windows based on room arrangements on the interior we reworked the plan we actually pulled that back wall in a little bit to accommodate the the thickness of the brick you know because we we have to maintain all our zoning issues and then we reoriented it and we'd give it some purpose to the window arrangement on the back of the building and also you know change the scale of it how it feels so we if we think for the back it's a little bit more slightly more modern than the tradition very traditional front where hardly seen there is an alley so this visible from the public but it's hardly seen and it's more say the it's more acceptable the to deviate from the the very traditional norms that we're keeping in the front and one other issue you can see the little brick shed in the front right at the front of the uh here I'm gonna jump back to sorry you know what it's it's not going to be shown on here but it's going to be shown on the uh the stack report if you jump over to that yeah very for I think the very middle well first page on our presentation so as soon as you hit it off right there yes so if you could see there in the thick heavy line is the outline of our site the brick walls actually in the alley and the brick wall that runs along but between the neighbor to the east and our property is actually all on the neighbor's front so it's not our brick wall so we can't touch it we can't tear it down I know there was concern um voiced about what we were going to do with that brick wall I wasn't certain because you know what the intention was not remembering at the time it's not ours so I've been touching um say with that I'm just on the can you point out each part is you were saying that it's not part of your property can you just repeat the point out to where it's not part of your property okay watch so there's a there's a brick wall that runs here and then there's a brick shed and across the top is another brick wall um all of this structure back here is in the alley our rock needs the heavy line in the same way there's a wall it's about a foot off of our property that is the neighbor's wall.

uh voiced about what we were going to do with that brick wall i wasn't certain because you know what the intention was not remembering at the time it's not ours so um say with that i'm just should there's on the can you point out each part is you were saying that it's not part of your property sorry can you just repeat uh point out to where it's not part of your property oh okay well actually so there's a there's a brick wall that runs here and then there's a brick shed and across the top there's another brick wall um all of this structure back here is in the alley our property is the heavy line in the same way there's a wall it's about a foot off of our property that is the neighbor's wall so just in case uh that wasn't picked up by our recording um the applicant was indicating the brick wall that runs along the alley in the back and the the shed at the corner of the rear property line as well as wrapping around to um I guess the west elevation east elevation yeah okay keep going uh do we have any public speakers on this yes yeah uh Sean Lands Sean uh sure can you stand on our magic index so we can get some handouts okay sure um yeah oops and for the record my address is one eleven Langley Street Carbro Springs Colorado where's land I lived in Colorado Springs for five years where's Langley Street uh I'm Peterson oh space for space I live downtown near Colorado College area yeah all right I got three minutes I got already uh so basically I was here last last meeting and there were a couple of things that were brought up after I spoke that I felt needed to be addressed.

Uh again as you can see from this and you can see what windows are going to be taken out the natural light I'm gonna be using and I and you know the the last is what am I going to be wound up with you know a couple of windows that are walled in so that's what I'm looking at inside my property inside of these apartments.

So basically 100% natural light in the kitchen in the bathroom and a common hallway I get the common hallways probably not primary room uh and the living room so it was brought up yesterday or last last meeting excuse me was that the consideration from one of the board members who voted was that he considered that these were not primary rooms.

Well I don't know if there's a specific definition for primary rooms but I would think at least uh a kitchen a bathroom a living room would be a primary room and these are separate apartments uh and that's basically it I mean who doesn't need a window or a bathroom for in a kitchen okay so I don't know I don't if they're not primary rooms I don't know what is and again I'm not sure if there's a specific code enforcement definition as to what a primary room would be but that was mentioned last time that it was taken into consideration without defining what was the primary room.

They also brought up the historic architecture was not significant on my building and just today I was told to be an email which I was not able to print because I was an airplane but I do have an email if anybody wants to look at it but from the bar office uh that to replace my staircase they need to have a drawing so that doesn't violate the open space requirements.

So there are some kind of historical open space requirements tied to this property or else they wouldn't have said that I couldn't do it.

And about three weeks ago they said that it had to be done in either stone or wrought iron.

So there there's rules historic rules into play here for me but not for seeing anybody else for the historic nature of the alleys that we've that we're dealing with uh same story with the windows just today I got an email from the bar telling me that my my replacement windows were not good they're they're not uh appropriate for the location and the building and they cited which they sent me they were very very professional excellent email very nice and very prompt uh but they sent me their admin policy citing pages seven and eight of your bar admin policy saying that these windows were not so again there's historical concerns here with what I want to do with my property but now we were told last time that there this wasn't a historic there wasn't a historic concern or uh structural concern architectural historic structural concerns uh were not significant on the building so it's kind of two sided here who's getting what you know uh so so I can do what I want with my windows or I can't I'm fine not but it doesn't go well that they can do what they're trying to do you know to my building uh and again that that it's an email record I can send it to you if you don't you can double check it but it's absolutely sent to me uh in uh the woman's name was uh Campbell Sakyan and maybe Mr.

Now's going at senior planning technician so uh and lastly again the architecture very nice and I just had a little chat but he said last time that I was not you know spoken to about this project I wasn't very simple oh you've got sorry time is up I appreciate it you can submit for the record to Mr.

Conkey um any additional documents you'd like for us to consider and we can put those into the record thank you for your time Mr.

Has this new construction applied with the zoning ordinance in terms of windows, anything related to natural light and anything else?

Yeah, I mean, so the new construction has been checked by our zone department.

It doesn't meet all the zoning requirements.

That's that's not part of the per view of the board.

Um windows that are on your property line are considered to be at risk because a building can only be built on a property.

And so that's that's that's why um that's how the side of the uh yeah, we routinely see buildings usually from developers that go to the property line and they don't have windows there.

Right.

Uh is that a zoning issue?

Well, it's a two things.

Um if a new new construction goes for the property, then you are um there's a limit on how much open openings you can have on the wall based on fire fire resistance.

So in a new construction from zero to three feet, uh you can't have any openings without unless the priority openings, uh, three to five.

You could be a percentage of the of the wall opening and then five feet beyond you're gonna have opening.

Now, in historic building, obviously they wouldn't they were then not these firing regulations, so that's why often you'll see on the historic building.

You might see uh windows on the property line, but you don't see that in the current construction just because of the of the fire on fire coverage.

Okay.

All right, uh well, we've heard from the public.

We have our applicant here.

Feel free to respond to the public comments as well if you'd like you gotta come back and stand on the X so we can hear your voice from our little owl or whatever it is.

Okay, well, uh I certainly appreciate Mr.

Lamb's position what's here, and I don't have a so I don't have any an answer solution to that hand.

I mean, there's we just you don't have to answer because um okay.

Does any member uh Mr.

Spencer?

Do you have any questions or comments?

Mr.

Adams.

Oh, Robinson.

I do have a question about materials.

Um if you could point out the um material on the rear elevation, is that shingle?

So the the the material that's on the third floor and down the left hand side is it's a synthetic side.

Oh, synthetic.

So it's it's like a slight shingle that's covering that face.

And the same on the west or the east based in elevation.

On the east uh east just on the just on the stone floor, yes.

So I haven't seen something that had that much significant slate on a flat surface like that.

Um it's unusual.

And I just wanted to point it out.

It's I find it unusual, and I just wanted to make sure everyone on the board registered that.

And if there were any thoughts, you know, what your thoughts were.

What inspired us was uh there's a series of townhouses on Robinson Landing, and they have a very similar slate figure.

There's actually comes all the way down to the ground in the middle in the you know, in the end units in the middle.

And it's actually uh I thought it quite attractive for the interest.

It's on Duke Street, they're right adjacent to the uh restaurant bar, Cooper.

We're built those townhouses right there.

They have large strips of slate that go down to the ground.

And I I also appreciate your thoughtfulness and trying to bring the mass more in portion with the adjacent buildings.

I think the improvements are strong.

Thank you.

Sounded uh is this just for questions or questions and comments?

Whatever you'd like.

The floor is yours.

Um I think it hasn't had a lot of frequency with uh with the changes that he had made.

Um I was hoping to see a little bit less high, like not a little bit.

I would I actually my preference would have been uh not to be higher than the adjacent buildings and also that would take out the whole level basically, but um but I I think the back has improved so much, but it's really nice.

I actually really like this thing that you have used uh uh to bring.

But it would have been really nice if it would the depth was a little bit more, I think.

By a little bit, I mean ledger or so if possible, but I mean you would have just at least it was set back a little bit, but um overall it has improved so much.

Uh the front of it, I like the window uh layout uh of the previous uh one much better.

I think more fortunately it works better with the um with the building.

This one, I think it's uh just overall with the the look of the building.

I think it works better.

Uh but other than that, I think uh uh it has improved so much from last time.

That's that's all that's a little bit of background when we squeeze the bay, we reduced our uh our lateral wall bracing.

So we needed the we needed essentially you need some strength or some meat on each side of your your your window, and when we made it a little bit lower, we went below those minimums.

So by pushing the windows together and taking that six inches or eight inches that was in there and putting it to the outside, you've created that uh, I was going to ask why did you or earthquake action would it was technical, didn't they?

So behind the scenes we had to make sure the building's buildable as well as compatible.

So try to balance that's McKenzie.

I'm um pleased with what you've uh done.

I too would uh prefer the facade uh from the first presentation more than the second, but I understand it.

And I appreciate you uh responding to our request to make some changes.

Thank you.

Still need yeah, I I appreciate the um group on the east side that's in the front thing that's the detail that just kind of wrap the man sort of material on all the sides.

It's working pretty well.

And um, I just wanted to point out that you know um this project's second floor is is an eight-foot high ceiling height, and our last um meaning, you know, we've heard a lot about having to have nine feet, but eight feet is only reasonable with um my clients not happy about it.

Well, I no, I think that uh that's good.

Uh I really appreciate your comment, Ms.

Delino.

I think Mr.

Conkey, we're gonna have a discussion about heights here coming up maybe in September September.

Um how that has that corresponds to the zoning, how historically how we manage different heights and home blocks and maybe we could take a look at contemporary standards in terms of what the norm is in the area.

Just so the board can get a sense of like the range of ceiling heights we're seeing on different floors.

And if anybody else has ideas for this, um let Mr.

Conky's email or talk to him because I think it's gonna be a really interesting discussion.

Uh Ms.

Del Nino, did you have anything else?

Um I I did, I think maybe we can leave um the design open if there is an investigation for like the light well somehow.

I don't know.

Sorry.

For the neighbor, and in case you wanted to investigate that further mainly work with staff or something.

Yeah, no, I'm I'm not against investigating alternatives, but at the same point, I have five.

I think one once you know who wants to move forward.

Well, I appreciate your presentation.

I was not here for the first presentation.

I I think it's improved quite a bit with some just really minimal architectural detail.

So thank you for that.

Thanks for being responsive to the boards.

It's a great example of how architectural detailing can make a difference in terms of how it presents on the street.

Um I particularly appreciate the steps back on the side there.

Um and the fact that you wrapped the brick around.

I would have approved the last one and I would gladly support this one.

Um does any other member have anything else to add?

Or would anyone like to make a motion?

I'll make motion.

I motion to approve.

Do we have a second second?

Is it a roll call, Mr.

Conkey?

Uh no, no motion was approved at the last one.

So this is just for this liquid appropriateness.

Um all those in favor of the motion say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Congratulations, you are approved for tonight for you all.

All right, Mr.

Conky, what's next?

Um, well, we have um business, we have another item.

Um this item we have request referral, but we're reading it into the uh recommending rate.

Um item number four, P AR 2025-0, 1 degree zero operation report here and not the back round screen.

The applicant is more construction groups represented by racial defond contractor, the owner is out of town and the equipment coming to us in each of the so I think requesting that uh so we'll need a motion to approve the applicant's request to defer.

So move do we have a second?

Second.

All those in favor of uh approving the motion to defer.

Aye.

Any of the proposed?

All right, that motion is approved.

Uh anything in the other business or the adjourn?

No, that's all we have.

No sense today.

Um, I have something to say.

Um in regard to the presentation that you're putting together for heights.

I think we should it I would appreciate a discussion on the lock base.

Okay.

And maybe even a ratio of um heights on the block, is that I mean it may not be in our regulations, but I think it really ought to be considered just as it was in our just to reference the last case.

Last time we got together, almost every every block, every house on this side of the street.

That block base on the side of the street where the building was improved, they were all two stories.

So I just want to, and I wrestled with that um in terms of being able to improve it.

So if we could address how to deal with that, especially since we're having more and more um infill in Parker Gray, um, where there are so many two-story houses.

Yeah, one of the things that I was one of the I've started working with this presentation just a little bit outlining it.

One of the things that I want to do is actually I want to look at historic block bases and uh just try to identify in in an historic block base with all historic buildings, what variation it might do we have because there's actually quite a lot.

And there's um there's quite often you'll have an historic entirely historic block base.

You'll have a three-story, two stories, four stories.

It really does not seem on the thought.

So this notion that this one in particular does have a lot of stories, but quite often historically there's a lot of variation working.

So I want to try to document that.

And when I mean when I get to this presentation, I want to show examples of you know historically very very historic variations vertically and and then and then talk about some of the ways that historically they would have handled that architectural by drawing across, you know, like in the taller building, maybe they draw across a cornice line or something that lines up with the lower building to reinforce that and then makes the taller makes the upper portion lighter thing, stuff like that.

So I want to talk about some of the architectural methods to deal with them.

I think that would really helpful because we've all seen examples uh in this area, maybe not an old town, but of new buildings that are taller than other buildings, but there's really been no architectural detailing at all to minimize the mass as you go higher or to uh do the types of things that our applicant here today did today to wrap the roof around.

So uh helping edu, especially as a non-architect on the different methods that you've seen so that we can be more helpful to our applicants.

I think would be really helpful.

I mean it might be a fun discussion.

Anything else from anyone?

All right, well, this meeting is adjourned.