I have to think that's really fun.

The first order of business we have is considered for the minutes of June 3rd to enter the space.

Do any of the board members have uh reach to suggest any operations on the minute?

Any uh do any members of the public have any comments on the minutes?

Can I get a motion on the minutes?

So moved.

Only paper.

I need opposed.

Okay.

Um next item on the document is the consent calendar.

Uh we can actually speak portion.

Um so we have uh two items calendar skipping item number three and four.

I have three and AR 2026 that you're one six zero restore picture.

And four the B AR 2026 that would be older for the request for signing at 6283.

Applicant fan represented by Robert Jane for the department.

Um uh any of the members of the board we should remove these these items from the class and calendar.

Uh do any of the um members of the topic we should remove these items on the classic um uh get a motion.

Make a motion to approve the consent calendar.

Okay.

Um paper.

Uh we can say try there being this approved.

We'll move on to the unfinished business and uh items previously deferred.

Uh the bucket for you five.

Um item number five underfinitive visitors deferred, item number five with B AR26 dash zero zero one three zero criteria request for operation of the four zero nine south royal street.

Yeah, but more correctly grouped represented by way from the bottom thing.

Um certainly um say your name I have certainly I'm uh Nate more and I'll be presenting for defendants as well.

So if we need additional information and my address is 3101 Woodland Lane.

Uh would you like to need a presentation or comment?

Yes, please.

If you want to draw, we can just use the errors right here.

And I can talk about the screen staff before and this previous and achieved.

Perfect.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you for hearing the uh proposal board and staff.

Thank you for your very thorough historic evaluation for the fragrance.

All right.

So the subject property is 409 South Royal.

It is a twin property with its neighbor.

And can we line up?

Yeah, it's a twin property with its neighbor at uh 411.

And the are uh of the style of colonial revival uh reviving, rather some of the items had been approved or weren't part of the review process for this board.

The three items that are remaining are the request to paint the brick uh to install a decorative cornice and fascia trim at the front and the rear, and to install uh some decorative window trim.

The um homeowner is a big proponent of historic elements and would like to see some of those in this property.

Um staff was unable to support this initiative because uh they noted that it wasn't in line with the um some of the aspects of colonial revival, and it also was um preferred to have it match the twin property.

So um we are presenting to uh see if you know some some middle ground might be able to be found here.

So the first portion that is being proposed is to create uh some neighborhood appropriate uh uh window trim uh as kind of shown on the right.

That's an example from Fairfax Street right now for the existing conditions of the windows as shown on the left.

So that is the the request for the window trim.

There's also some historic examples of other properties that have similar as uh as far as the uh other requests for the paint in the corners, so you can see that there are other properties that were built as twins, but um have transitioned over the years to more of a sisterly uh appearance as opposed to a twin appearance.

Um and again, just driving around town, you know, there's there's a number of examples of this.

Some of them are very close to what uh the homeowners are going for.

So I would don't want to take up too much of your guys' time here.

The the ask is again for those three elements and to get a feel for the board's opinions on the matter and what um flexibility might be able to be offered.

Okay, members of the board, do you have any questions?

You can ask them now, or we can uh divide them at the time of the video.

One question.

Has any of this been are the shutters put on already or not?

That's part of the that's not part of the review here, they've already been approved.

Okay, um is off the top maybe we should speak on this application.

Um for commonly spelling the important thing.

Yeah, you're using through the member important information.

Anyone wants to go first?

I personally uh support the staff's announcements to the project.

Um although there are examples of uh for our enclosures in the neighborhood.

I think that they have an appropriate paper, so I think it's important for something that we should appropriate.

A little bit louder please.

Oh, sorry.

Uh you guys hear me okay.

Well, I'd be saying I I can't uh support painting unheated break.

And I agree with the staff's recommendation of not uh putting this uh orname trim onto the building event is not in keeping with the original building.

Uh I I also support staff recommendation in this case.

Um it is a twin.

And um and because we don't normally it's with rare exception that we have a unpaid unpainted bread to be painted.

Um and also I really am not so the decorative uh beisha trim and room crafting front side and rear elevations.

I don't while I didn't see many drawings.

I don't think it's appropriate for this.

Uh we've seen this wear roofline um in this kind of property 1952, I think it is.

Um it is definitely genuine, not generic, not typical of our community.

So I I can see on the line uh first, I I want to applaud you for trying to take a building that feels uninteresting and make it more interesting.

I think unfortunate part of the proposal is it's hard to institute a lot of creativity and are historic to strike there's some strict role things you know.

Um I would love to support your thoughtful you know a croach, but I do think there's some historic elements that probably are not appropriate, and I think really the biggest problem is that it really creates um an incompatibility within and I don't know maybe my colleagues could comment on whether or not there are some more appropriate details that if he works in coordinate with your twin and come back with some different thoughts, um that might be a way to approach this.

So thank you, but I unfortunately support the staff.

Um I've seen over the many years I've been here some situations like this, and maybe back even in the early part about Alexander being gentrified and so forth, there were even Victorian houses sometimes that were being switched into more colonial style by you know, little tweaks as you've suggested.

Uh so I'm not as opposed to it as the guidelines based should be that I should be because I've seen this happen in another house.

So now you think to myself, what would I do?

I probably I think it's very attractive.

And I also don't think twins need to be stayed wins.

Um I don't think there are many houses that were built, you know.

Often there were two houses built at a time.

Um was the pattern, and sometimes there's an extra floor put on one, or they change.

So I don't I don't see the need for that.

Um they match um because it's that's not a pattern.

Um it is such a geometric simple thing.

At one point I when I looked at this, I thought, oh, what if you know picked up on the modern was built in 52?

Is that what I mean?

Sort of this uh mid-century modern direction.

It may not be what you're finding as embracing, but it could be an artistic or an architectural direction to go and you know to strengthen the design of it.

Um I don't mind the idea of putting if we didn't paint, you can't paint it, but if you did apply more shora um stain, maybe that would be a way to deal with a color.

I wouldn't mind I know this house well.

I live about a block away.

And uh and I've looked at it from time to time said, what would I do?

You know, I think it's handsome.

I like the corners.

But it's the probably the academic solution that we're guided by and our guidelines are it's very influential with our board.

Um occasionally we do deviate and we did do allowed some trim to be added to a house that did have to have it in the past, or it was unclear whether it happened.

This definitely did never have trim.

So the shutters are there.

Could you do any of this just with paint?

Um South of Italy, all of the paints architectural elements.

I don't think the board has a purview over decorative painting.

That's it.

So that I guess that's paint or stain if it were to be the world would have a program.

This doctor would be you would have a program.

But I mean if it was two colors of stain or wash or something like that, you might be able to get some um something.

So I just let me see.

Was there anything else?

Well, again, I remember how other people have changed the stylistic things.

It's have been happening for you know decades.

It depends on the mood of the community and the fashion that we follow.

But it's it's very handsome.

But I at this time it seems at least we may have a stronger opinion in the other direction.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I agree with Mr.

Adams that I am not so so that the twins need to be identical to when it's like for tunnel to born at the same time, but they look different, or subtly different ones girl, what's a boy, whatever.

But I and I agree that Mr.

Adams' idea that no these are buildings, they will change over time, and uh our guidelines are guidelines, but we as a board can actually say okay, yeah, these changes are acceptable for no changes that you're asking for, I don't support it, but I am not against the idea of the building changing.

Um I don't disponible uh green should be that way, and also the other changes that you and I suggested are not in my slides you've changing, making changes of the movements to the house.

It's just you're saying to keep any changes that you're making to inacordance of the style that the building was built on, which is full of young revival style uh reach for windows is a pretty simple uh style of uh building or windows.

I I can I heard that you said you are already adding shutters, rubber channels, so that is typically one of the what being done as um and these windows architecture pretty similarly.

Uh so overall basically the uh the recommendations of the staff.

But um would you uh do you agree with the staff recommendations and what is learning on the um I mean to a large extent it's not my place to say exactly.

Um I've noticed that when we've been in front of the board with larger projects where we're building additions or doing things like that, we get a greater degree of flexibility on the style changes that we can make to things.

Um but you know, again, this the regulations are pretty clear.

Again, Snap did a great job of outlining what the historic elements are and the relevant um regulations are.

So uh I can't necessarily disagree with that.

I would ask for a couple other pieces of guidance in moving forward with this.

Um Mr.

Adams recommended a stain.

I I don't know if that would be something that would be agreeable to the board um to give it some kind of delineation.

Uh additionally, the homeowners asked if she coordinated with the neighbor to do some of this with some of it to be possible.

Most notably the cornice.

Right now, there is no corners, it's just a bent piece of metal.

I do find it a little hard to think that the board wouldn't approve some kind of something that's a little bit more decorative.

I mean, that just looks bad the way that it is now.

So um I would ask if there could be some kind of flexibility on that, given that there's not an architectural element worth protecting when it's a bent piece of metal across the roof of a brick building.

Um as far as the the window trim and detail.

Um I get it.

It's it's part of a different period, different style.

Um so those would be my my questions for guidance.

Is A, would the board be more open to it in coordination with the uh neighbors if it was done at the same time?

Uh B would the board be supportive of not painting but uh washing or staining of any kind that would be more period appropriate, and C would you allow some kind of detail for that for that roof line that right now just doesn't look commensurate with the value of the property?

Thank you all for uh the order about our mind.

Um do we discourage staining on um unfinished break?

Okay, so that's very yes.

The board had the exceptions as a board of exceptions in various cases, but the guidelines are distributed.

And that's because it's a permanent um application of the same correctly.

Excuse me for interrupting, but all that's subject to slime wash.

Is that permissible?

Again, it's not it's not um or the active body randomizing, but again, the board can be accepted, but uh it is discovered.

I think I would consider um I would consider giving more consideration and likely an approval to all three of the items you mentioned on the rib line, something other than the metal that's there.

Um possibly alignment on a sugar by staying.

We do occasionally mention sessions, and um, what was the third thing you said?

Oh, if the neighbors would do this something similar, and of course the corn S.

Yeah, that really uh I don't know that that influences our guidelines or it doesn't, but um certainly it's a consideration, and what the neighbors think is always a consideration for me.

So I would just share that with you.

I don't think it necessarily needs too much uh means the next door of PC changes over time um between the two uh things, but I personally uh don't support the move, but the other items uh again we're not saying not to be proved or not to change it, just in accordance to pull on your life style.

So if you want to change the corners or maybe I don't have to be back on guessing paintings in accordance to decide that the building was built in, it's okay.

Um I think how if you there are other um I I didn't know if you've looked at your stairs and railing other concrete or stained and looking at the set I'd support me with staff to that beyond the building itself, the stairs going up to the front door.

Um and actually I don't think you necessarily have to recycle the neighbor if you're changing if you're going to develop uh you know an appropriate trim for the coin to see which are between the steward on and this building, and that's acceptable.

And um again, I I found support permanently staining the brick, you know, we can actually take paint off of the brick, which sometimes um more acceptable than permanently staining this ring that'll be there for another hundred meters or something.

So I ask for a point of clarification on that.

Yeah.

Um sorry, I don't know the protocol for interruptions.

No, um what about sealants that'll just change the sheen?

Is that because that wouldn't be a stain, that would just be a change of machine as a ceiling.

Um I feel like it could fall under a maintenance category nearly too.

So the beauty of really elements.

So um if you're if you can feel the brick, you start to trap moisture and involves and then that's hard after we said we don't want uh it to be painted not seeing that with straight.

Yeah, yeah, that's uh um so I was gonna I was gonna chime in stuff.

So I should go down the list of that.

I I could support some changes as I said.

I think the cornest change in the corners would be very handsome on this building.

Um I'm not sure if I support it in the dental corners that you would proposing it was on here.

I think that one's appropriate, very similar for corners.

If you're going with staff to come up with a similar corners, that would be very nice.

Um I think the idea of like what are the current steps and railing systems?

Um it's just as you see painted concrete metal rail thing, changing that to a stone to make a dramatic difference on this house.

Uh and upgrading the railings to be a little more interesting, could actually be something very interesting as well.

Uh what about a portico?

I don't I haven't checked with zoning if the portico would be allowable, but from this board, would you be supportive of the portico?

No, we've we've allowed some covers over some doors, but I think that would have to come back to us and see what that would be like.

Fair enough.

No, we don't pull it out tonight.

Okay, yeah.

So would you I mean we can we can pass to one bit of staff for me?

Um boardman pass can ask the applicable to the firm and come back to the board with some additional designs.

Um board would like boards, you'd be asked to have the after local stats if we can get those clear correctly.

It's up to it's under your evidence that's whether or not you want to you want to see it again.

Um these are some significant changes.

So that's up to you guys.

Um I would say I'm a typing as long as um uh the bridge is not painted to both of the staff and uh in changing other evidence that you want in the floor and the colonial uh side.

I think we would need to have some staff that needs some pretty specific for that.

I would almost prefer having to come back, especially if we got an explore protocol idea.

We I obviously haven't discussed that with the homeowner yet.

So it's just yeah, but we need the flexibility to at least explore the idea.

Would you like to ask like I don't like um well the homeowners in attendance?

Can I inquire with her?

Yes.

Um would you like to have the uh hearing deferred and take some of the suggestions from the board to resubmit with possibly some of these changes?

Or would you like to see if the board can give enough guidelines to have you just work with uh Rachel from the team and staff to make some approved changes?

I'm not sure if we can like we basically we um it we want to see a dependent design from you that matches the colonial sky.

Okay, so so that is off the table then the um okay things now the options tonight we needed to have a vote tonight, uh up or down vote or to defer and um be able to come back with some change to the time and later.

If it doesn't pass, did you did you say that up front?

It doesn't pass.

If it doesn't um come back for one, if it gets to nine and it can't not come back to the board for one year.

Oh one here.

I think that makes my decision pretty uh I I would like to defer uh and I would really appreciate the opportunity for our team to work with the staff to come up with some proposals that would be more amenable support.

I really appreciate everyone's time and interest um and care in this matter.

So thank you very much.

Make the motion to accept the vote for um uh vote it's not a real file.

Okay, if I vote to what you have to add in favor.

I all the hose.

And then uh you can be trying to be done, Seth.

Um, and we can help get you set up for the next year.

Perfect.

Thank you, Seth.

Thank you, boy.

Thank you.

I'm gonna move on for the next one on the one next time.

So I will be serious.

Uh absolutely I um docket number six and seven is B AR 2026 staff 0016 and one script.

It is request particle now, mission and tax relationship at 428 or as well as the addition and all operations at the same time.

And it would have the architect and we're gonna show you.

Sure, and Karen Tanki and 47 South Lee.

So uh good evening.

Thank you for hosting us again.

Uh my client, uh Julie Acker is here.

Uh she took very seriously your comments at the last uh hearing on uh May 20th.

And we've come tonight with some revisions that we'd like to show you, and hopefully you're approval.

Uh so if we pull up the stack report, I think there's a pretty good image.

That's okay.

Well, we can keep talking about that.

Um so if you saw your reward packet, um the bay window at the first floor uh was reduced by one foot in overall width.

Um this was to have more brick area on either side to address some of the comments that were made.

Um the layout of the bay was also changed to have three windows.

So kind of like there's three windows on the second floor.

So now there's three windows on the first floor, and then the buttons are more in scale and similar size to what is there.

And let's see, the roofing material at the flu man sort of roof.

Oh, there we go.

There's demo, so one more page.

Yeah.

It's a little hard to see here.

Something happened with the hatch pattern.

Yeah, PDF there.

But yeah, there we go.

We can kind of see it.

Um so we changed uh the roof material of the film sort of roof to be standing seam as opposed to asphalt.

And last but not least, we reduced the drawer by quite a bit.

Um that was the main concern of the board.

Um so we reduced it by three feet.

So basically we took out a window.

Um, and so we've gone from four windows or sorry, five windows to four, and uh we've reduced the height um by changing to cases.

I think that was Ms.

Del Nino's uh um question or request.

Um we reduced the height of the dormer to give more of a roof space around the door myself um by going to a casement, but still needs to be the rest requirement.

Um with that, we agree with the staff's findings and are answering questions.

Thank you.

Uh do any members of the board on questions about the applicant?

No.

Uh any members of the public should speak on this activation.

None we'll go through the comments for uh on the problem, and uh we'll hope I need to get a visual panel board once to go first.

I um I think this is such a nice response to your last meeting and shape would be a sanction.

Let's get it in the hoping that some phone orders and still we go in for me to know.

Um I think we're like you work with staff if you want to reduce the number of lights.

Uh you know, we're gonna be um six lights is that it oh the muttons.

Okay, finish the board support.

Um I'll leave the comment on the umpa chair.

Um the comparison uh to approve and thanks the applicant for being responsive to board recommendations, especially for maintaining the shift over uh bullish order.

I'm not gonna smudge it.

Uh any other comments.

Looks very nice.

I think the windows on the second floor, it's a with the larger scale panes, actually looks better to me.

And I've seen that on another of the theory of companies where the scale might be a little bigger there.

If you wouldn't find the buttons, it's not sure the buttons.

You're talking about the muttons and the the size of the size of the light.

Yeah, I think the larger scale kind of fits nicely.

Yeah, that's I had heard match the second floor, so that's what I was trying to do there.

So yes, I can so uh angry, I think the current window configuration is a little busy, so then making the window lights a little bigger on that second floor.

Question I have though is when you reduce the bay, when I look at the existing window layout on the first floor, they line up with the second floor windows on the existing.

You've reduced the bay, so are you toothing in brick to fill that back in?

I mean, the hope.

I pondered that and really debated about that.

That's that's what your elevation is showing that.

We're taking out a lot of brick, and I did a project at 101 quay where we raised a window sill and I did Google Earth.

I went down there and looked at it, and the contractor and one of the contractors they're looking to use, did a phenomenal job.

We really can't see how that was healed together.

So we would just have to make sure the contractor does a really good job there.

But yes, I that gave me a little heartburn as well.

Okay.

Exactly.

Or a ghost of what it was.

Right.

All the hardware hasn't done this.

Um I wrote in my notes.

Well done.

Um, thank you for listening to us.

And I especially like that you've changed the asphalt roofing to metal roofing.

I think that's gonna make it that much more special.

Thank you.

I have the same comment about the months.

I think a six over six configuration like you had on the previous um day is just less busy and more appropriate to book space.

Other than that, thank you for being so responsive and receptive and enjoy your view.

All right, thank you for the changes.

I think it has approved so much from uh the last time.

I think I believe I wasn't quite supporting that.

Um so anyone wants to make a motion we said to you.

Make a motion to approve first staff recommendations.

I do want to bring the uh change of the buttons on the second only pattern on the second floor to be larger lights.

Well from the amendment is with staff, you know.

Yeah.

I accept your friendly amendment.

Um Mr.

Spencer.

I Mr.

Adams.

I Ms.

Robinson, I'm Ms.

Mill.

I'm and Mr.

Mini.

Umgratulations.

Thank you so much.

Have a good night.

Okay, well I have me.

Uh yes, sir.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Uh um I can't.

We think it could be a solid screen.

I know we're talking about.

We think we'll use it.

Um we have a couple of items.

Uh sorry, one item.

Sorry.

Uh the rating numbers.

Uh we are 226 00181 or the sort of history.

Request for partial demolition and encapsulation of 401 in the wrong suite.

We applicate the case design modeling incorporated properly.

And we are 226 dash 00182 for this very partition operation for 01 and 33.

We have the case of your modeling and settled by that.

Let's try any comments.

Good evening.

How are you doing?

Um is Gizam Oskaya.

I am representing sign of modeling this evening on behalf of the mooner um Claybon.

And your atlas.

401 Northley Street.

Yeah.

Uh would you like to uh give a presentation?

Not necessarily I think we fully concur with the staff street board and recommendations and would like to skip the presentation board.

Um any members uh uh any members uh of the board have any questions for that book change uh uh do any members of the board have questions for the application?

Do any members of the public have any comments for this application?

We do not have a list of bigger form for this one.

Okay, sorry.

Do we have any public bigger for this or no?

No, no.

No, okay, okay.

Uh we'll close the comment section for the public and open the delibration to the staff.

Uh sorry to uh to the board members.

You and any of the board members would like to degree for comment for this.

I mean, this is another project well done, and I will uh support him.

Thank you.

Yeah, like mine is here.

I just have a question on the uh on the latings on the roof.

Is that one should be taken black?

It's actually white.

The existing one, the existing actually is also a white color.

But the other um items.

Black they're black, the remaining is black, yeah.

Any comments from I support this, I think.

Thank you.

Very nice.

Ignore buttons.

I'm shit, chair of care.

Second.

We have to do that.

Hi.

Hi.

What's that?

Hi.

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I think we'll go on to the last item.

B AR point to five.

And we'll win the board just the base.

And reminder content that we use tight mass scale info character.

We're going to see this again for us after this bit.

Hello, welcome back again.

Good evening, members of the board.

Here to present some of the changes that we've done to address our DAR concept one.

Patrick Infield, PT Bloom's development.

And on behalf of the 415 North Alford address.

So just high-level changes to discuss.

One of the more prominent issues that came up during our last review was introducing variety into the exterior skin.

So we introduced a lighter color brick and uh decided to space them with a little bit of asymmetry.

So to help improve that variety.

This is allowing us to kind of break up the mass of the of the brick wall, which is occurring on that left side of the photo.

We have introduced uh variety in uh this uh the style of the base, um everything below the water table.

So the intention is to have uh a cast stone water table that kind of consistently runs through the five townhomes, uh, and then have um we have a vertical uh stacked brick pattern on on the beige properties, and then we have uh more of a cast stone band, uh larger bricks, uh brick um large format brick um profile that would go below that water table so uh introduces a little bit more uh flavor to it.

Um the beige townhouses we also uh included mansards uh to add some variety to the rooflock.

Um I believe um I believe in the staff report uh it was suggested it to potentially uh move one of the gables to all the way to the right um to kind of uh I guess make it more symmetrical and reduce the the parapet height on that right side.

Um I'm gonna go through a couple slides now, get into a little bit more specific.

Just uh um another high-level um breakdown of the floors, so they're three levels.

They start above 15 inches above grade on the first floor.

They have private patios in the back.

Um they have a fourth floor penthouse uh rooftop access.

Uh and they also have uh a separate garage with an ADU on top of the garage.

Uh these are a few different properties that we use to derive our inspiration, uh kind of big hardy bays.

Um one of which was a can't quite read that address, but I think 215 North Alpha to 11.

And then there was two other properties on North Columbus and North Alfred that also have a similar bay projection and kind of a heavy uh cornice line that runs across the top.

We're virtually identical in our our ADU setup.

While this is a kind of middle block, and this can be seen from the end of the block.

We have a very similar setup where it's kind of a private patio in between the main structure and the ADU structure with the garage.

That's a view from the back right now.

So one of the other improvements that we've made is there's you know a building, a one-story building there that'll be demolished.

Uh and you know right now it's basically the face online.

So the alley is very narrow.

Um we're pulling that back 10 feet so we can allow 22 feet uh spacing there.

Uh so that should help and benefit the neighborhood as well to make it a little bit more easier to move around and for the new homeowners to access their homes.

Sorry, can you say what was the things big back?

Actually, it's 12.

Um, there's a 10-foot alley, and then we're pulling back the garage 12 feet.

I'm gonna skip through this one get through the color ones, it's a little bit easier to see.

This is a side angle from the north elevation showing um the fenestration on the window facades uh and the mass of you know one of the smaller properties on the block.

And this kind of highlights what we've changed overall.

So uh along with the changes that we've made in the front, um, which I'll recap on here.

Um we've also made a bunch of changes at the alley to bring in more natural light, kind of break up the flat walls, the monolithic walls, um, and add a little bit of variety by by adding uh different material inside of the the outdoor spaces.

So on the old submission, you'll see it was very very consistent design, uh probably a little too consistent for for BAR's linking.

Um and so uh what we did, you'll see you see the gable roofs, those black areas are really where the mansard sits.

That's what we've introduced to kind of add variety to the roof line.

Uh on the rear side of the main structure, we really opened up the glass to let a lot of nice natural light in.

It's very it's hidden from street view.

So uh we think if there was an opportunity to be more modern, this is where it is.

Um then you'll see at the bottom um we've we've uh we've put paired uh uh two sets of balconies together and then a singular one on the left.

Um and and I think Bill mentioned that we you know he may want to figure out a better way to divide those spaces with screen wheels, and I'll show you that here in a second with the color rendering.

I think we agree with that and we can work with him uh to get that get that uh fixed up.

So it's a it's a pretty pretty stark difference.

Um overall the general massing is the same and kind of the bay projections are the same, but um we wanted to make sure that you know new construction reads like new construction, but does pull elements of historic design from throughout the city.

So you know we're not trying to be inauthentic here, um, but but we do appreciate you know the character of historic looking building.

So you know that's why we've added the herringbone uh spandrel panels, we have the cast stone um sills for the windows, cast stone bands at the cornice line at the water table, cast stone below the water table in certain areas where the red brick is.

Um the red brick will have a more natural variety, very common in older bricks, uh not just a flat red brick.

Um the beige will probably be more consistent, more of a wire-cut brick, um, more modern, uh kind of fitted in between the two structures.

Um then we've introduced again the gable to break it up and again.

We're open to the suggestion to move that gable to the right uh and kind of tapped it to the sides of the property.

We've also broken up kind of the monolithic mass for the fourth floor.

We don't won't we don't uh we don't see this being visible from the street, but uh at the off chance it is, we we feel this helps one introduce light into the space, but also make it feel um less noticeable.

There we go.

So we happen to be on the taller side of the block.

Um so we feel it's appropriate to build the scale that we're doing.

I believe the staff agrees with us.

Um the last submission was property 403A, which really has a much higher roof line.

Uh and we are very consistent with that in our design.

Um the same with 407 and 405, uh, which is kind of sandwiched in between.

But really, the ridge line of the roof is is really where we're lining up versus versus 403A, which is more of the front uh cornice line.

So here's a kind of a street view, um, standing on the other side of the sidewalk at an angle.

You can see you can kind of barely see the top edge of that access.

So visually it should go away pretty pretty nicely.

These are just your your typical floor plans showing the layout across you know, first, second, third floor.

Uh there'll be a little bit of variety based on where the entry into the unit is.

These uh these are kind of enlarged elevations are really uh capture how many windows we've added.

Uh, we've done it both on the front and back of the ADU.

So great natural light coming in, breaks up the mass from uh the back of the structure and also from the alley.

Um and we also uh shifted or reduced the outdoor space slightly uh in order to allow for more windows um and to in just kind of moving around to accommodate the request of the board.

Uh the general layout we were moving around.

Uh the upper elevation, you'll see that's kind of the full elevation back side of the ADUs.

You'll see that before there was no windows at the top.

Um we've added quite a bit um to accommodate that request.

We've also agreed to expand the depth of the sidewalk to six feet.

Um it's a it's natural brick.

Um it's a little bit one of these is misrepresented as concrete, but it right now it's it's it's brick, a brick paver.

Uh so we'll extend that about six feet.

That'll bring it closer to the house and match up with the standards of what the city's looking for.

Uh and then we have we're introducing landscaping beds um to add a little bit of variety to the front of the buildings, and then obviously we're adding street trees um uh in accordance with the the standards for um TENS.

And so give you one last image.

So you'll see the back side of the ADU now has we're thinking uh you know, more of a wood appearing, uh probably not actual wood, like a cedar, uh, because it just deteriorates so quickly in the natural sun.

So we'll probably do a material like uh maybe a trex or timber trucks or something that mirrors that and warms up the interior of that space.

Um, but we do feel it's successful in breaking up that that whiter siding in the back.

So that's that's all I have.

I'd love to hear your your thoughts.

Uh do you have any umbres off the topic?

Up first is Wayne Neo.

Uh we wind uh speed.

Yeah.

Actually, we'll help you out.

I won't mind the public at three minutes.

Um if you are opening um, I uh give your permission to say something about my credentials that I didn't say last time.

Well, um as president of the American institute late 1990s.

Um during that period of time, the thing I'm most proud of is we need two design lords buildings that were in Alexander.

One of them is 950 North Washington Street, it's triangular building at the corner of um Allatan and Washington Street, and it was designed in the character holds down north.

And the other one was 1250 North Pitt Street, two office buildings that were intended to do the same thing into the waterfront, the new waterfront area.

I didn't say that last time, but I think it's important.

And I'm going to try and read this in two.

Um the residents of the 400 block of North Alfred Street have reviewed the design submission made by the developer PT Blues and offer the following suggestion suggested revisions to the design is submitted.

The purpose of this review is to ensure that the new construction will fit into and improve the context of the streetscape, enrich the character of the historic district, and assist the developer in producing a project of higher value.

There's six fundamental suggested refinements to be made to the design as submitted.

The mass of the overall structure is visually inconsistent with the existing streetscape.

And while the variation in brick color from one unit to the next is good, the design remains inconsistent with the variation in architectural styles existing on the block and throughout the neighborhood.

A couple of things are needed.

A offer additional style variations of at least two units, such as round top windows or B, and belt courses, jack arches, and gas stone lintels.

Number two, the same color brick should be used on the rear of each of the units to promote individuality, as most townhouses uh in old town uh portray.

As presented, the rear of the project looks like a single office building.

It's the rear wall, is the rear wall aluminum siding.

Are they steel or wood garage doors?

We don't, you know, it's not a window pane colors should be coordinated with the brick colors and not all black as proposed for all use.

To eliminate street noise and pedestrians from looking into windows, raise the first floor elevation to two to three feet above the sidewalk, two feet at the end units where footing depths much must match existing footing depths from existing buildings, and two and a half to three feet at the interior units.

Three interior units could have optional basements without increasing the floor area.

The ADA access is required for Mr.

Conkey.

Uh, but it's not shown and possibly does not work.

Doesn't indicate anything.

Um architecturally enhanced stoops.

Thank you, thank you.

Uh two minutes is over here.

I have three other bullets there in the paper that I have to use.

Okay.

Please look through the drawings that are submitted.

Um with your cat.

Uh next out is Daniel Ferrero.

All of these advice is that you're named.

And Daniel Barrera, and I live at Fort 10 on the top of the street.

Um, so uh I'm right across from this.

I'm gonna see it every morning when I feed my house.

I'm gonna see it um whenever I look out my front window.

Um, and I do have some concerns about it, some of which um Wayne brought up um and many of which are covered in uh the document that he gave you.

Um but I just want to um highlight a couple that are of particular concern for me.

Um one of the main ones is the way that the um the roof line um doesn't um it's not if it's not consistent with the roof lines on either side, so there's no there's no flow, it's just kind of like a big block right there in the middle.

Um it's hard to see in the images that they're providing, but you can sort of see um the difference between um the one on the right and then the the building next to it is like quite quite serious, it's like a almost uh a full story.

Um, so some kind of um gradual um raising on either side, um, both on the the left side and the right side, I think is something that would be um would make it look a lot a lot better and a lot more integrated um into the environment.

The other major concern I have is just about even though there is some variation here instead of it being five cookie cutter structures, it's like two cookie cutters and three cookie cutters, but it's still very, very similar.

And if you go to, you know, we're just a couple blocks away.

If you go down there and look, it is a really eclectic raw block.

There's just a lot of different kinds of architecture.

There are no, you know, there are really no two houses that look very similar.

Um, and so it's gonna it's gonna be this big imposing presence right in the middle of the block.

Um, and that's you know, of concern to us when we think about um you know what what it what is gonna what it's gonna look like and how it's going to integrate.

So that's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks, uh Do you have Kyle?

Thank you.

Yeah, and Dave A Kyle, I'm also at 410 North Alfred Street.

Uh my husband who just spoke, and I agree with him on all the points.

I answered me with Wayne on the points that he made.

You know, we do have a lot of concerns um with this new building going up.

And part of it, you know, beyond those that have already been raised, is because it is, although there was some variation from the previous design, it still feels very much like one building, which is very inconsistent with the character in general.

You know, and I noted that the developer, when you spoke, he you spoke about, you know, you added um modern touches to the facade.

But you know, our house is built in 1900, right?

Um, most of the homes on our block come from the last turn of the century.

Um, and you can just feel that this feels substantially more modern and inconsistent with uh with the community as a whole.

You know, the large picture windows, the way in which the it is uh the surround, there's a lot in terms of the way the design works um that just doesn't feel consistent with the character.

And while there are, you know, they were able to find two or three very large buildings, they're kind of one-offs again if you have a very eclectic neighborhood.

Um, there's no other place where there's five buildings in a row that are essentially four stories, right?

It's it's three stories of living, but then they have this additional structure that they built on that's a non-dwelling structure, but is a fourth-story building.

And so having what is two-story buildings on either side, and then this very large uh five-story block that essentially feels like uh, or excuse me, five unit block that essentially feels like one building um it is gonna change our community, I think, pretty drastically.

Um, and so I I have those concerns.

Thank you.

Mark Hamilton.

Uh my name's Mark Hamilton and I live at 424 North Alfred, so across the street from this central.

So I appreciate the applicant's investment in the property, and I support thoughtful redevelopment of the site.

My comments are not intended to oppose the project, but rather to encourage revisions that will better reflect the character of Parker Gray's story district.

The first concern is architectural character.

While the front elevations have been designed to resemble individual townhomes, the rear elevations appear much more like a single large residential building.

The board's guidelines emphasize massing, rhythm and the appearance of individual buildings within the historic uh streetscape.

I encourage the board to require greater differentiation between units, particularly on the rear elevations through materials, architectural detailing and massing.

Second, I support the recommendation to enhance the stoops and the entry sequence.

Traditional stoops are an important feature throughout Old Town and Parker Gray and create a stronger relationship between the home and the public streetscape.

Third, I asked the board to carefully read uh carefully considered the scale of the end unit bay is reducing those elements from three stories to two stories, would create a more appropriate transition to neighboring historic properties and reduce the perception of mass.

Finally, I'm concerned that the project appears to maximize development intensity through the inclusion of ADUs and the near complete build-out of the site.

While additional housing can be appropriate, the resulting design leaves little room for storage service functions and other amenities typically associated with residential use.

The board should consider whether the that intensity is driving design decisions that are inconsistent with historic residential character of Parker Gray.

And uh one other thing I'd like to point out is the rear of this building is very important.

There are two vacant parking lots.

Those parking lots are deeded to 300 North Washington Street and require parking for that building.

So the visual for Columbus is unimpeded to the rear of this structure.

That's all I can say.

Thank you very much.

The um side entrance to my house opens onto North Alfred.

First, I'm gonna say I appreciate the board's attention to this project and the developer's responsiveness to the need for design modifications appropriate to the site location.

The historic areas of Old Town, including Parker Gray, are unique.

They are internationally acclaimed, and they are valuable asset to the city precisely because of the visual appeal of the streetscape and the storied history told through architecture.

I remain concerned with the jarring visual impact as my neighbors have noted of the overall mass of the proposed structure as currently rendered.

This is due in part to the need for further design variation, again as noted by my neighbors, to make the structure visually consistent with the variety of scale and historical design prevalent on the street and in the surrounding neighborhood.

In particular, while the proposed height of the structure is within code, it nonetheless has the potential to overwhelm the streetscape, as has been mentioned.

Only four of the 22 structures currently on the block are three stories.

The proposed structure is taller and significantly more massive than the three-story residences immediately to the south, and it entirely overwhelms the two-story townhouses to the north and across the street.

Recommendations for modification should include, in addition to what my neighbors have already recommended, two story bays on the end units, as described in the name of the petition, variation in window design to reduce the sense of uniformity, further variation in brick color and style, as well as variation in other materials.

At least two of the townhouse facades should be rendered in historically appropriate architectural styles that differ substantially from the current relatively uniform presentation.

The newer development of 401 and 403 offers a good example.

Finally, the inclusion of trees to break up the sense of mass, as has been done with the recent development at the corner of Princess and Columbus Streets should be required.

Further modifications such as this will preserve the developer's return on investment while bringing the visual impact of the project more aligned with the existing street scale.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Sure.

Um there's a question about the one for what you have to be.

Sorry.

There's um there's a question for you.

I just wanted to ask you about um heights of buildings on the street.

You said there are three that are four story.

There are no four stories, four stories.

There are four of the 22 structures are three-story.

The rest are two-story, some with spires, bits and pieces that will rise above the two stories, but nothing compared to this mass scale.

Thank you.

Good evening, madam chairman and members of the board.

My name is Ed Lockett.

Uh, I served on the board many years ago, Tom Holfish.

Uh, I have a background in architecture and in city planning.

Work for the city for five years and help redevelop.

I guess a little schedule.

It took about 10 minutes to do to give you a sense of the relationship of this.

I'll um give you a sense of the relationship of the neighborhood to this building.

Um, excuse me.

I'm at 418, 420 York Alfred Street.

Okay.

Now very frankly, we don't know what the nature of the ownership is going to be of the property that is in question.

It could be one ownership with rental in it, which would not have to go before subjugation at that point, anything of that nature.

It could be kind of medium, or it could be sold individually, but we don't know.

Okay.

So well, we have to assume the worst, and since we don't know, and the worst is that it's a mass, it's 93, 97 feet long by 100 and some odd feet deep.

It's roughly four stories high.

It's a block, a big brick in the middle of the block.

Okay.

If you look at this, maybe maybe the owner time to finish the slide, which floor planes in the packet to show their fee simple towns, and there's a rentable ADU in the back, which would be under the ownership of each of the five towns.

Not multifamily, non-model, not rental.

There's no planning at all.

Okay, so we know that it's going to be sold off individually.

Is that correct?

That's the simple town.

Okay, very good.

So that's the first second issue is that if you look at the sketches there, you can see all the houses in the neighborhood, and this one big block in the center there, which represents the property that is proposed.

And also it happens to be the same footprint of the property that is there now, but it's a very large scale.

Okay.

My point being that this mass, and I call it a mass, is not in keeping with the height, the scale, the character, or the um uh general uh nature of the neighborhood.

It doesn't fit, period.

Okay.

So my point is that it needs to be considered more like the other developments in the neighborhood and more like the other styles.

If you look at the end of the park closest to Princess Street, you will see the recent development there is keeping in scale with the rest of buildings in the neighborhood.

So this is just violates everything that we know about our neighborhood.

The second point I would like to make is the backbacks is refined design in every every regard.

The fact needs to be completely resigned, redesigned in my opinion.

The third point I would like to make is simply that there was no evident uh effort to make it uh compliant with or similar to other properties in the neighborhood.

The easiest thing to do, for instance, the two in units, instead of having the base three stories high, having them two stories high, and would have a better relationship, but that's just a minor thing called this.

The whole thing is out of scale with our neighborhood.

And I'd like you when you look at it and see that that you vote on accordingly.

And that's my presentation.

I do have to be performance.

Yeah.

Um I'm Ralph Brooker.

I live at 422 North Alfred.

I'm a genius here.

We're in agreement on this.

The I did do appreciate that the work has been done by development to make it better.

It is better than the last review, but uh, I think we have a uniform consensus and sentiment from the Deha and Tablock.

It's a big building, and it's out of character for the middle of the street.

And the keywords I'm hearing from the developer, which I think to most people would be good words, uh building, uh uniformity and symmetry, those are bad words.

Those are those are not what we want to hear for description of a big old building in our neighborhood.

It looks like a giant building just rolled in from any town USA, bulldozed the existing structure and plunked itself down there, and now it's the main character of the whole street.

So what I would like to request, I don't disagree with the other comments, but my main first point is it ought to at least look like five individual residences.

They should not look related to each other.

We need to allow people to have individual outlet.

The street needs to have a whole block full of different housing, not just one big fat thing that's got this beautiful symmetry, like well present.

It needs to be all a mix of different things.

The other point I want to make real quick is logistical.

I hooked this an architecture-related thing, that's parking.

Um, because I understand it, there's no basements, there's also no attic storage of any significance.

Therefore, what will inevitably happen, the garages will be used for storage, and the residents will go to City Hall and get popping stickers.

So we will get one to two vehicles on the street for each of the two dwellings.

That's 10 to 20 vehicles on the street that we don't have right now.

Right now we have an office building, uh empties out at nighttime.

Overnight parking is not that bad.

It's sometimes an issue, it's not that bad.

We have 20 new cars all piled up overnight.

It's going to be very, very difficult.

If there's a way for the board to factor then in to uh the way that the properties used, number people are in it.

Um I think there's going to be a big blow-up issue down the road.

Yeah, unless I've lost another.

Uh we'll pull it to the public comment at this point and open up for uh classic reviews for the board.

You want one question?

Mr.

Crombie, do we consider parking as part of our fit under the floor?

Trees.

We do not consider the board.

Just one.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Blackhood something.

Yes.

Does the developer have any feedback?

Additional comments I just thought we just wanted to find the honors.

I agree.

Yes, please.

So would you like to speak as a I would love to address it?

Yes.

So three of the four three-story structures on the block are to the right side of this building.

Okay.

So if there's any appropriate place to add more, it's here.

Nowhere else.

Um, we've also um an existing uh space was being used by the neighbor to the north.

Um, we opted to grant an easement to that neighbor to continue to use that space and to access the rear of the property, right?

So that helps pull that three-story mass off of his building and provides a little bit of separation there.

So you're gonna have a three-foot walkway that runs front to back, but it's six feet in the front.

So that really helps break up the difference.

It's not right next to it.

Um we are not opposed to introducing more variety.

I think there's enough.

Um, one of the conflicts of doing a two-story bay on the ends is if we're moving the gable to the right side, the gable would not look right in that context.

Um, but we're not opposed to to increasing variety.

Um, we reduce the opacity of the trees on the street, but you'll see there's five trees, um, two of which are existing.

Um, and I believe we're adding three more, but don't quote me on that.

Um we could under an SCP go to four stories on the street.

We opted not to do so, right?

Uh we thought it would be appropriate to be three stories.

We have there's many other examples of four stories throughout the park of Great District, and the one that was done by Bill Cromley on North Columbus are five identical properties that have the same exact skin all the way across, and it was approved then.

We've come we've gone way further than that.

Um, in in this design.

Um, another aspect that Wayne O'Neill I've met with twice to try to address concerns.

We have uh any any uh if you're building four or more structures, four or more townhomes, you have to include type B uh accessibility, right?

We have the the city code director has approved those entrances to come off of the uh off of the of the rear of the building, right?

And that is that's a buy right that's built into the code, but it if it reduces our flexibility to raise the building because what Wayne is proposing would make the building taller than it is, all right?

That's three to four feet above that would be above the 35-foot zoning room, right?

And and his solution was to add um five ADA accessible lists at $30,000 a piece, right?

Uh combined cost.

Those that's not that's not a realistic solution um to have five individual ADA ramps or ADA um lists for five different properties when there's a very little chance that any of them will be used for accessibility.

We don't mind the compliance, we're fine with that, but it's a it's a terrible eye sore to do that in that kind of repetition.

Um I think that addresses most of the comments.

Please feel free to add your thoughts.

Mr.

Company, do we include costs as a part of our consideration?

Thank you.

I had a question for you.

You know, reading over our minutes from the last meeting, we were almost all in the consensus about the building heights not being in uh not being appropriate for this particular block to this location.

And so can you address how you would uh responding to that?

I went back in the minutes and I didn't I saw maybe one or two comments about that did not see a uniform consensus on height.

Um I think these what we're showing here is really a good middle ground, especially when you have.

I mean, what if what if you had you had two stories on both sides?

And maybe there'd be a point of tapering down.

We examine the heights.

We are as tight as we can go to sell this type of town.

Now I know cost is not a consideration.

We have to balance economics with design, right?

So that's why we could sink it to the ground like every like all the other new townhouses, but we think that really reduces the stoop appeal to next to nothing.

I mean, everything that surrounds that project at the venue, those 40 townhouses, you enter off the sidewalk flat to water issues, it doesn't add for a prominent entrance.

We raised it up to steps.

If we wanted to reduce height, we could flatten it out, but we think it's aesthetically inappropriate for this block for anywhere.

It really should be elevated to some degree.

And if we had the flexibility on height, we'd be open and lifting it more.

But there's other considerations on the site.

There's um there's very light, you know, uh very light vapors from from uh from uh the existing dry cleaner that we have to deal with through the course of construction.

We have eight feet of unsuitable structural fill, causing us to have to install helical piers.

So we can't just put a basement in because the cost of that is exorbitantly expensive to haul that to soil safe facilities.

Right?

There's all kinds of stuff that we're backfilled in there, brick, asphalt.

It's just it's really a dumping ground.

That's why we're using the the um helical piers to go down and hit you know, bedrock or to the point of refusal, which is about eight or nine feet down.

So all these considerations have added quite a bit of cost to to what we're doing that we didn't consider when we first acquired the property.

So we're just trying to balance that with the design.

What are the interior floor to ceiling heights on the various floors?

1099.

109.

So I think my comments if you want to go first.

Um I I agree with uh you know that we all are concerned about the height of these uh these houses, and you can see that the one just right to read is a three-story townhouse, similar to what yours is, but the the top of the third story almost is almost as if the beginning of the third story that you are proposing.

So, why does this townhouse between story has to be so tall?

If you go to page 11 or the elevation uh sheet B AR 10, that's probably one.

This is 11, right?

You can see what I'm referring to that the uh the top of the basically the bottom of where it starts the bottom of the roof with you know it's almost matching where the third story starts in your leads.

What about 403A though?

Yes, for 407.

Uh the right of the so I'm sure there is room to lower things building to with you know your second and time.

Um I think at the high highest one, it shouldn't be any higher than the bird we awesome even is uh it's above that.

Um I do um think that it should be at least a gradual um as it's going on.

So the ones on the sides should be lower, not in that seam lower, but actually be lower uh than what it is now.

Uh the uh the maxal group ones a hug to make it look like it's lower, but it's not actually lower.

So what I'm requesting is to to lower the other ones, like the red rig ones, or or at least one of the the two of them on the corners to be lower.

Um, because you technically are you know, the you have four story, but I know it's a set bank finished access, but it's even one more story about every other house that you have um this street.

And it's really the max with the AU units on the back.

It just really feels bad.

The other thing I should have started that it is much better than 94 changes with it is much better than the previous one.

Um that we look at, but I do believe that it still needs more uh variety in the townhouses.

It seems like the only the three color basically has changed and the trouble to move, but uh the penetration is it's exactly the same in all of the buildings.

So it just brings more variety in the look of the kind of how you have the windows from one unit to the other.

Uh, I think there should be more variety in between.

Now we have two different ones which helps a lot.

Uh what if you can bring more, that's even better.

But definitely between the ones that you have, it should be the very one of the uh common set uh mention, uh which I think is very pretty color of the weight of brain now, so if we change to match the followers, the recolor of the more again to just to breed more variety.

Um very important thing is to uh wrap around the brick uh all the building, not to stop it as I saw the back elevations they were citing, I think for the house basically.

I mean, we would be open to the rear elevation of the existing structure, but it's way too much cost to do it on the ADU structure.

Again, we we don't consider the cost uh but uh for all of the townhouses be full town.

I mean this is these townhouses are being built in all the town.

Um guidelines where at the historic houses, uh, they always have the big room wrap around the same material.

So you have the mount and the side of brick, we come in the numbers to racket all around and singles actually are going to just for the um needs to be the same where you have the siding uh to change to bridge.

I think the combination of the brick and the uh the wood actually look really nice.

Um there's plenty of examples in the city of of the properties that have siding on the back that are new construction.

Plenty.

Uh we don't refer back to the ones that uh didn't uh or was something that they're not established processing, not necessarily we want to make good residents for future.

Um so that's another one.

Um I think my mentioned most of uh the uh also the common one to raise and you can reduce this mass for the whole uh five of them together is as uh we had multiple times to reduce the height of the bay for the corner ones to two-story, right three-story.

I think that is an easy fix uh booth to follow the mind a little bit, but I who still believe that the actual height should be lower as well.

I think that's most of my comments.

Um I was not here for the previous concept for you, but I do really think this is moving in the right direction.

Um I especially appreciate the brick deep detailing that you've added and the variation and the brick color sort of style, and it does make it seem less monumental to me.

I do feel like um, in terms of the variety on the front, we do see examples historically throughout all town where townhouses have been built in groups like that, and there's similarities that you know they were all built at the same time, but there's differences from house to house that aren't quite as dramatic as what some might have suggested.

Um so I feel that while you know always go for something that's not quite as high, and I do feel like maybe you could consider it 1098, you know, in place of food at least, um, and still have a very generous you know, ceiling height in the in the main part of the house.

Um, I do feel like the scale and the massing on this block is not as overwhelming as I've seen in other places.

So I do support the overall scale and massing of this.

Um and I think the staff has done an excellent job with their recommendations.

Um, just to note a few things that I think were really uh on point.

a 10 nine eight you know in pleasure food at least um and and still have a very generous you know ceiling height in the in the main part of the house um i do feel like the scale and the massing on this block is not as overwhelming as i've seen in other places so i do support the overall scale and massing of this um and i think the staff has done an excellent job with their recommendations um just to note a few things that i think we're really on point um i think that the the doors on the front i'd like to see that as being solid instead of glass and i think that makes it um whoever whoever purchases it is gonna probably have to put the shade or something on it anyway and i think having a solid door um it's just probably a more consistent detail and it provides a little more variety and opportunity to create individuality um i think and you've already related to this if you could continue to develop the red detailing on the facades and maybe create more variation between the building types for instance the love that you've created the span rule you're putting the right coursing around it but maybe they don't both have hand you know you could you could vary it um in that way um i am uncertain and i'm not sure I concur with the staff recommendation to move the man's hard we did I really like the asymmetry that this provides um and I think that it almost creates you know a single a twin single a single um as you look at it as a whole um so I think if we give the man's hard replays one down to the right we actually end up with a bigger mass in the center um which I think is less appealing.

So I actually prefer this facade um that staff recommendations um and then I would say on the ADU um I do think this needs to be continued to develop the staff is pretty vague on exactly what the recommendations are but I think again it's moving in the right direction there one thing I noticed is it seems like the doors and the windows um on the balcony level is there where they're adjacent to the corners seem like they're really wide and I think there could be some more breathing room um there um and then I think potentially the fenestration pattern on the top floor could relate better to the lower floor so I think it's just like an overall review of of how that ADE looks and continues to work with staff to staff to develop that and I also agree with the kind of that the garage doors seem exceedingly large and I noted um in one of the drawings there was a suggestion to have a door on the garage in the back I don't know you put just away I would like to see those doors not be quite so massive um I do think that making the brick of the main the the rear windhouse brick thank you that's all thank you one other thing I wanted to add is that is the it seems from one of the things that I look at the uh what's the height of the uh the unit of all right it's seemed it was 10 feet each it's pretty high but the garage is eight feet and then I think the ceilings are nine feet with two floor assemblies so that's eight feet that's 17 but it should be 19 um I believe in the staff report was quoted as 21 I maybe it's misrepresented as soon as I can find it.

Can be lower I think that would be helpful to the houses and bus that section round ceiling 10 three so the door nine yeah that can go to eight and nine so I can take a foot foot off it can you scroll to the top a little bit so that's your 80 ceiling is torn uh 20 dash three so yeah you can be lowered I I I guess there's something there's something off here I think about this.

I don't know if it's a grade or what but I think it's shorter than the lower anyone else uh I don't see thank you it's good to see the changes that you've made and appreciate that a variety that we mentioned it in your presentation as well probably the group is here wants to push a little harder for variety um and the neighbors and your so forth of the time review this as well as Mr.

Lutton um from the comments from Mr.

Neal I like very much the idea of lowering the end units to lower the other vehicles and also mentioned us in to two floors but maybe with a pair of it so and I think Mr Spencer's going to speak to that also but it sticks out that it has some kind of nicer tap on it.

Um the floor levels, I agree that I think that the success reaching too far to have nine, eight, I mean uh the numbers you mentioned.

I think nine, eight, six, six, but and eight would be still generous.

Um the span the uh the exterior, the uh um the uh because Robinson said the front door should be solid.

I and every house new townhouse I've seen on the north side of town that has all these windows on the ground floor, they're never open.

People have to immediately put shades and curtains in these places.

And I think that that is a mistake.

Um nobody wants to live their living room on the sidewalk like that.

Um also the wind window pattern, I think again, the mutton pattern should be not four over four in every single building.

It could be six over six on one of the styles and four over four on another.

It's you've changed the roof line, but not much on the and the brick color.

But the it's so repetitive, the window section.

That's an easy opportunity to change things.

Um the recess panel or spandrel, I think it should either be on one of the types and not again uniform.

It should again, it's an easy way to break it up with a different stylistic look.

Maybe the I don't know, an arch window could be used some places, just somehow to make these things look more different.

Um the spacing of the ground floor windows also might be different.

Maybe instead of three on all the houses, you might have two on one of the styles.

So they start breaking up more definitively.

This is a Victorian version, this is uh early 20th century version.

But you're latching on to stylistic differences from different eras.

Um I think everybody else has made some really good comments, and you're moving in the right direction, and you're lucky to have a gauge neighborhood.

It may not seem that way to you right now, but the sales will be even better.

I think thank you for the changes you've made.

And I do see the progress that you've made.

I do appreciate some of your comments.

I I don't think anyone's talking about lowering the ground floor.

I think that I agree with that's a bad idea in general, and it's bad for waterproof and bad for entry.

Not an idea that I think we want to entertain.

I think previously we had talked about that, but I was never a fan of making an entry a step down.

I think that's just creates all kind of nightmares that for the future hall order that we don't want to be able to.

I do appreciate the the changes you've made in regards to the brick color changes and all the detailing.

Um as Mr.

Adams has mentioned, I if if it was to stay as is, I think the ones with the pop outs or the bays, the corners at those bays should be stronger to help some standouts where the eye doesn't drift past meaning to pass in anyway, but it'll give you a hard line to kind of look at and stop the eye a little bit.

So it's not so hard.

It's not just drifting up to what's above.

I do agree with the comments um about the window pattern on the fourth floor, but at the same time, I'm also kind of struggling with that one because if it's set back far enough, you won't see that patterning, but it would be nice if it did kind of relate to the building below on the fourth floor.

Window pattern is right now the massing on that that floor just seems a little odd compared to how the rest of the building comes together, and I know no one ever sees a building in elevation reality.

But looking at it right there, it just feels just not quite right.

Um I did look at Mr.

Neil's sketch about lowering the two pins.

It's an interesting idea.

I'm not gonna say um exploring, but it's an interesting idea, and I think it would be interesting.

Um I don't know if I the one thing I didn't really um like about this idea was to step up all of a sudden and putting the two gable the units next to each other feels odd as well.

I do like the way you've broken them up, so maybe if you did explore that idea, the gable units can I don't think they should be right next to each other, they should be separated.

I do like Mr.

Adams' idea of uh maybe the the window patterning is different based on the style of the individual units.

I do like the idea of recess in the bays or the recess uh brick word that you have, and I I also agree that the idea that they could be different, not all the same exact patterning within that recess.

I think for me, the more the the thing your front is going in the right direction, yes, and some more development, but I think the rear is where I have the most problems or the most concerned.

Um massing of it just I look at it and or visualize it and the mask just seems strange the way it's the grouping of the units, and I think the all the white siding on the back doesn't quite work so well.

So I guess I was gonna ask idea of the brick wrapping at least on the main block of the house, and maybe the ADU having a different material.

That's an idea you can possibly explore.

I don't think the ADU in my mind needs to be the exact same material.

But that's a lot of white siding regardless of what color it is, it's just a lot of sided beds on the back.

We can play around.

It feels that that makes that back just feel like it's one big massive thing, where the front is at least trying to break up the back is not really working at all.

So I did like the warm wood tones that you had in there, and I think it would be better if it was more of the warm wood tones as opposed to the the light that you had everywhere.

I also think that the brick, the wraps, it should at least wrap the main mass of the building where you kind of look at uh some of the historic buildings where the original house was brick, and then they added on something, and it so a lot of times there was brick too, but sometimes they did change that material to that helps to note at the time that hopefully was built at a different type of error.

So you could pick up on those kind of clues in like, okay, this main mass is this, and then the ADU is maybe something different, complementary, but something different.

Um, those are my general ideas that I had, uh general thoughts that I had.

Um, I don't think I I was one of the few people who didn't really have an issue with the mass, the hype that you were suggesting.

Um I think there are lots of places in O Town where we have a three-story building butting up to a two-story building and butting up to a different hype building.

So I don't really have an issue with that personally, but um maybe you can work with your neighbors.

I I do agree with Mr.

Neil's idea of that that first the first bay on the right left, maybe stepping down and stepping up.

We can look at that.

One thing I thought of um the red brick buildings.

Um really what's driving that height is the parapet wall at the top, right?

So I can pull the guardrail back so it doesn't have to be fall protection.

It'll probably be out of sight, and then I can bring that wall down a little bit.

I think they were talking about bringing the bay down, not the actual well.

I'm just talking about the red brick just to help with the layer without really impacting what I need for the so but yeah, we'll we'll explore the two-story bays on the ends and see what that looks like.

Yeah, I mean you may end up being that you put your red brick and then someone going with red brick buildings right now.

You put your two red brick buildings on the ends, and then you get uh a uh gable unit with a red another flat roof unit in between with another gable unit.

So you I'm not saying that's the mix, but it's just I don't think the two gable units to each other just does feel odd when I'm on the sketching side.

So that's all I have.

Uh yes, I'm glad to go next.

Um, I have a lot to say.

Um as I'm listening to this meeting tonight.

Um I am not sure that this site is viable for your expectations.

Um perhaps another site would better allow you to realize the objectives that you're trying to achieve with this project.

And I'm just listening to what the neighbors had to say, what architects had to say, um, and my colleagues.

Um but I don't I'm not so sure at all that it's a good fit.

Um, because um it's the kind of it can be.

And when our um you know, several years ago, our former mayor, um, Mr.

Mayor Wilson and his city council approved accessory dwelling units in our community.

Um, but it was never meant to create what you are presenting this evening.

I don't mean to criticize you, I'm just telling you what is real.

Um the thought behind allowing AUDs was not to pack them in as tightly as you could.

Uh, yes, it's allowed by code, but is it the right thing to do?

Yeah, and that's why I reached the conclusion that this really may not be a viable site for the project that you've suggested several times that you can't do such and such because of your financial constraints.

I appreciate that, but we cannot address that on this board.

But we can't, I can tell you that something's got to get.

And it's not necessarily the compensate on this block.

Now, this particular block that you're planning to build in really is unique in many ways, and clearly the neighbors are very concerned about the mass of your building.

And I think, Mr.

Luckett, that your drawing was especially helpful just to see how much space this site occupies for me because I also see how tightly these this project is being squeezed into the space with the accessory dwelling units.

Uh and also I think you're going to get some kind of you're hoping to get a variation on parking if I understood the SUP correctly, no?

No.

Yeah.

We don't need any parking on us and if I code.

Okay.

Providing two perfect candles.

Mr.

Conte, in your um report, you said that that was uh going to they were going to apply for an SUP and that there was something regarding parking and also regarding setbacks.

And we don't do a parking, but it's just telling me that you're asking that you may be asking even more of the site.

Um I'm gonna let you look for that.

It's just not true though.

I just want to make sure we we correctly speak facts.

Okay, and then I want to uh tell you a few other things.

That's looking at this just based on what I heard this evening.

Umitatively thinking and looking, um I have some serious concerns about your approach.

We have um good working relationships, and we try to have good working relationships with our applicants.

We try to do everything we can for them.

Um for the Whitley, the commercial building in the 800 block of North Washington Street, the 732 North Washington Street, and the three infill townhouses on um had townhouse developments that you have brought to us, some which include the accessory dwelling units, are not speaking to the character of our community.

Um I'd be happy to take you around and give you a cook's tour or whatever I can do, but they're not speaking to the character of old town, what makes old town old town, what makes old town a city that is ranked number one, two, three is best city to come to.

We can't build buildings that don't have the same character as the other buildings on the street.

So even if you were to go forward with this and find a way to just to work it, um another point I want to make to you is that the sub, I think whoever did your submissions were um, I would call them comparables because I had not only signed background, but a real estate background.

So to me, this that you've um submitted are comparables.

The project, and here's a very good example that Steve Kalinski did at 401 North Alfred Street.

It blends seamlessly into the neighborhood.

And there it is not um, it's not a big building that's bulging outside of the boundaries of the rest of the block.

Uh so I think that, and also I want to say that um what you've given us so far did not begin to add the architectural embellishments or details that he has.

I realize this is concept review, and you are going to bring us some other things.

Um, the first concept review is much farther along than what you brought us.

And so we're not where we should be at the second concept review, in my opinion.

Um the uh 332 North Columbus Street is all uh you submitted them as a comparable photo of their all two stories.

And then 211 North Albert Street is a built build building three-story building with a front bay that a projecting front bay.

We don't have a projecting front bay going on here.

And that was a building built in 1970 by John Rust.

Um and uh I actually think it has far more embellishment um architecturally than what I'm seeing from you.

You look like when you say there's no projecting bay, what do you mean?

Comparable to this is what I meant to say.

We discussed potentially lowering the ends to two.

I mean, that's good because this is a two-story bay.

Well, that's a good thing.

Okay, the next thing I want to tell you is that um interesting.

I I think that's something that would really help, and it again, it's not my decision.

I don't think this architect that you're working with is in step with historical depth.

And either you get it or you don't.

And this architect does not get it.

Um so I'm uh I think my own opinion after sitting on this board for a very long time, you're far better off hiring a really good architect than you are hiring lawyer, because good architects come in here and present their projects without lawyers, and they and they breeze through with much less back and forth than we're having to go through on this project.

I'm not telling you how to run your business, but I'm a little frustrated with all this.

So those are some of my bigger picture comments.

Uh I clearly I don't think the building is as submitted, is ready to go next to City Council.

I don't think it's ready to go to City Council tonight after tonight's meeting.

I just can't couldn't even begin to consider it ready, um, even though you've met your requirement of two concept reviews, because then it comes back to us and we can comment on architectural, but it's not there yet.

So we'll have to figure out what to do with that.

I would feel uncomfortable saying work with Mr.

Conkey and complete this project.

I think it's make accommodations to some of the things that you've heard.

And maybe you're not going to maximize every single square foot on the site, but if you plug it in to what's in all towns, it's going to sell a heartbeat.

I can tell you that.

Um, and I want to tell you also that you mentioned Mr.

Cromley's townhouses as they're five in a row on the 300 block of Columbus Street.

In my opinion, Mr.

Cromley's townhomes are absolutely beautiful.

They are replete with fine architectural detailing.

Um, and each townhouse reads at the townhouse.

It doesn't read as um an infield, a drop from a developer with infill townhouses.

And so if there is a way that you can, it's big picture.

I'm not giving you any specific details right now.

I think many of the architects in the room add, but there's there needs to be a better understanding of the community that you're in and what works doing in field in um in old town on an office building or a big building like the Woodley, that's a little bit different, but this is in people's block.

They walk into the front door and look at it every day, and it's not um doesn't fit yet.

So I I hope that I'm not being too harsh, but I'm telling you what I I think.

Our chairman once told me that he thought I was a unique voice on this board, and maybe he's not here this evening, and maybe I am, I don't know, but it's important to be in Wolf Town, and it's not all about maximizing um everything financial at the expense of architectural integrity of the project.

Thank you.

So I I also agree that this is going in the right direction.

I think that in an out on the street is really going to help the mass scene and also reduce a little bit of the impression of the height.

Um, and I also agree with what I've heard this evening that you were to develop the ends of the building as lower elements, maybe beyond just the two-story bay, but you need a you know, nine, eight, eight ceiling high, or even with a different hyper structural flooring, so you don't necessarily need 15 inch or for team in the still needed beam or something.

on the street is really going to help the mass scene also reduce so both the of the impression of the height um and i also agree with what i heard this evening that if you were to develop the ends of the building as lower elements maybe beyond just the two story bay but maybe a you know nine eight eight ceiling height or even look at a different type of structural flooring so you don't necessarily need 15 inches to like the theme or something if you were to do that then you know the windows won't all line up so it may help differentiate and still have your same square footage um i think you know it'll be important especially on the the unit that's adjacent to 417 because that that's still above the height there that we're not seeing so I think um with a little development I like your idea about lowering curve it and having the guardrail of a beat back with that's gonna help but that's a good idea um I think it's also very important to have the structure if it's brick it should just be brick on all the sides and if it's five units it should be this five units even in the back the APU I think is appropriate with siding because it used to be accessory units and siding in the alleys although they do have 10 story 10 feet ceiling height so I think you know if you were going to um you know reflect an accessory unit it should be a little bit more humble as an acceptable and right and you know I I think we'll be able to develop some of the the intricate details going forward because we can develop it I think there's opportunity to be do stuff I and especially on the end I don't think it necessarily has to be symmetrical and the more you can a continuously differentiary consumers I think the more it's going to be um being with this particular neighborhood um you'd reference along the streets but this you're sitting next to Saint Joseph's school and that's a pretty large mass building there so I think that each lot has a certain character that um we recognize and I think you're beginning to recognize that so thank you thank you uh chair also had some comments that you will be setting close to you okay um so I think I've got to change I wanted to read you both what I was talking about um the development page five of your report bill the development special user permit associated with this project will be heard by the planning commission ahead of time to be determined the following approvals will be requested through this process the development site plan of modifications for rear yard setbacks for the principal and accessory structures that's one thing I was talking about I I believe it's it sounds to me like you're asking for some um variations to the setbacks um for this project to get a little bit more square footage in and then the second thing it says is parking in the required rear yard will also be brought up at that meeting and then the proposed subdivision so that's it wasn't out of thin air okay i i will have i'll have to look at it but that's that doesn't seem right okay i hope it's looking apart is that we can follow up about it right but for the rear setback we're we're only improving the depth of the alley i think that's what you said earlier and so it's in contradiction to what yeah I'll read the comments going after which you this is what you're referring to is the uh the SP which of course September 1st that's what we would so we'll have a little time to yeah okay I think I think we don't let us see the online more view uh another possible because I think there's a lot of changes that we discussed but it's okay that took it second thank you all right the one we did have the light um we're hearing three we can go on because we all have um thank you for that um all the bags want me to hear a lot of like we're gonna call it here you're gonna obviously have a pretty sound

Can you guys not need to hear the video?

Oh, okay, five minutes.

Um