Okay, we're gonna start uh this this portion of the meeting.

This is um we're doing a proclamation for William Allen baseball this this evening.

So um just wanna read them the proclamation and then uh we'll invite you all up.

So um whereas Allentown City Council would like to congratulate and celebrate William Allen High School baseball team, home of the Canaries for having a historic season, and whereas William Allen high school baseball team captured the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference Championship, the EPC, and DIAA District Um 11 6A title.

And whereas the Canaries concluded their memorable year with a 21 and 6 record advancing to the PIAA state tournament for the first time in 31 years, the can the Canaries made their first state tournament appearance in 31 years, concluding their season against Neshamini High School, and whereas the Canaries, William William Allen High School Baseball team led by longtime head coach Rob Leskowski, Coach Todd Eichelberger, and Coach Michael Gonzalez, along with the players, sophomore Warlin Aguera, Rodriguez, freshman Alejandro Cartagena, Junior Jane Jorgenes Centano Reyes, Senior Tucker Heiser, Senior Emmanuel Herrera, Senior Jorge Innoa, Junior Louis Luis Jorge Mal Malco, Senior Soren Melton, Junior Jaden Marcado, Junior Jose Mora Martinez, Senior Dypher Moretta, Junior Davien Orzaco, Junior Sebastian Peña, Senior Aji Quatrini, Junior Emole Roman, Senior Aiden Schneider, and Senior Jan Vargas.

And whereas the Canaries, William Allen High School Baseball team thanked the players, coaches, families, students, alumni, and the best fans in District Two for their support, energy, and belief in the team writing that means everything through the ups, the downs, and every inning in between.

Writing, you've been with us loud, proud, and loyal.

And whereas the Canaries, William Allen High School Baseball team stated that they will keep working, keep grinding, keep representing, and stay steady.

Now therefore, be it resolved that Allentown City Council congratulates and celebrates William Allen High School Baseball team on Wednesday, June 10th, 2026, for capturing the EPC championship in the PIAA District 11 6A title.

Come on.

And we like pictures, by the way.

We like pictures.

So come on.

Tell us we want to hear a funny story from a player about this season, okay?

Something fun.

There's a podium right here.

I don't want to say this up there on the media.

No, it's a at least he gets a microphone.

Turn on.

Is that working now?

Okay.

The one thing I will say is it showed out this year what what Allen, the Allen community, Allen, City of Allentown, the whole Lehigh Valley can do.

I got so many text messages and phone calls from people who weren't in Allen, weren't in the city at all, just how much these guys were able to pull everybody together.

And you know, from the adults' perspective, it just says like we need to invest in these kids because when we invest in these kids and we give them the resources and we give them the care and all those things that go along with that.

It's our responsibility as the adults to give these kids those resources to stay off the streets to do the good things to do well in class.

That's another thing.

You know, this this varsity group had a 3.0.

That's amazing.

Great guys.

But it just goes to show what our kids are capable of because everyone wants to tell us what our kids can't do.

We just went out and showed what our kids can do when when they're given the you know the right uh assets and and whatnot to get them there.

Thank you.

And uh I want to quickly mention thank you to uh Randy Atia, who's not here, but he was very um beneficial and helpful in in getting this together.

So I want to Randy Atiya from William Allen for helping organize this event for these kids and the coaches.

Any any of the teams?

Yeah, say something interesting and funny from the backflip.

All right, no, no worries, um no pressure.

But um but anyways he was almost there.

Yes, yes, come on, yes.

I mean now and it was something special uh in the beginning of the year we knew we had a special team or turn with us together and really do our job, but we've been struggling with for many years.

I mean here my president sophomore year.

I would say we had the same amount of talent or more.

Oh man.

We couldn't do the job, we just we'll fall apart every time, but this year we were able to stick together no matter what.

Even what would be in the year we're two and three, and obviously that was not the best spot we wanted to be at early in the year.

And previous years like at that point we'll just crumble apart, which is I mean, trust that everyone on the team work close to everyone and stay together that we went on a winning stream for that amount of time.

Um this year's been pretty special from the two big ones and the program history.

Wow.

Nice.

All right.

Yep, so we built a foundation, guys.

So um I expect to see you back here next year.

Um, because I know what you built this year, you're gonna build on for next year.

So excited to see what's next.

And uh we'll what we do is we'll get some photos for with all of you and uh and we'll hand these out.

These are proclamations that you can take home with you.

So five of these guys are old with us.

So what then just put in the proclamation so that we get a bigger one there, right?

So each one will have your name on them, and then guys distribute them to uh your teammates that weren't able to make it to that one.

But you can tribute them to I need to.

Yeah, this will be like the chair fungal.

Can some of you roll that proclamation?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

You don't have to open it because you have seen on actually.

You guys are tall.

Oh, maybe do the knee thing, the one yeah, random y'all.

Maybe just the knee thing, the one knee thing.

I feel like I'm the right thing to know.

There we go.

I wear many hats.

Wait, let me get in one question.

That's the best part of the city somewhere.

One, two, three.

Okay, guys, smile, you did it.

Yes.

I love it.

And I do have to call out we have one Alan Grad here.

Um Cynthia's dear up to it.

Any of y'all who aren't seniors I want to see on the interest and really want to talk about it.

I got one.

Shake it.

I was like, I know.

Yeah, it's what we can do.

I mean, um thank you guys.

I'm sorry, we will not have DRF next year.

I believe you have to say Deref is produced more world classes.

Um, thank you and uh appreciate the patience.

We're gonna start our city council uh special meeting, uh which is scheduled for today, June 10th.

Uh we're gonna open it up.

We'll start with roll call.

Ms.

Ortega.

Miss Girl.

Here, Miss Santos.

Here, Mr.

Bender.

Present.

Miss Moda.

Here, Mr.

Napoli.

Here.

Mr.

Pungo.

Here.

And Miss Appha.

Here.

Mr.

President, you're all here.

Great.

Thank you.

Um, we're gonna start be it during a special meeting.

We normally don't have cursey the floor, but we do have some members of the public that uh um I would like to sneak it in.

Just so uh they don't have to sit through the entire meeting.

So uh at this time I will take courtesy the floor if any members of the public would like to speak on anything that's not related to the agenda this evening.

I have Keith Ritter.

Okay.

Uh Mr.

Ritter, you're you're up.

Uh well welcome.

Welcome.

Uh thank you.

Uh so we uh me and uh my sister and a couple of other folks you push the button.

Thank you.

So um I just moved back to to uh Pennsylvania downtown.

I was gone many years, and uh since I've been back about a year, uh I've been staying with my sister half of the time during the winter, and I I stay up uh at a cottage close by off of Mayus Avenue.

But I'll tell you um what this is about is that there is horrendous noise and very unsafe traffic where my sister lives, and so does our neighbor, which is right at South Fourth Street, just a wee bit north of Sedkoyanna Street.

Do you know where that is?

Okay.

The other night there was a really bad accident right in front of our houses where they had to use the jaws of life to get some people out of their car.

And I don't know what happened to those people because I I I wasn't able to see anything on the news or anything.

And uh roughly three and a half weeks ago, I had a uh my mom left me a Cadillac Seville a couple of years ago before she passed, and it was totally demolished at three o'clock in the morning.

And the police were great because the police showed up.

I called them immediately.

It was a hit and run.

And nothing has been done really about that.

But that's besides the point.

The point is we're kind of hoping that something could be done for that area because it's the noise, the motorcycles, the loud, it is horrendous.

I mean, it's bad.

And the speeding.

Uh if anybody was walking on the street and would have been right there, they would have been murdered.

They would have been killed.

And I think there were were things done before.

Uh like I said, I've been gone for a long time, so I'm just speaking because I had my car.

It's it's just gone.

I had to go buy another car.

But this happened uh just the other night again.

And uh I they may want to say something too if it's possible.

And I don't know, we don't know what else to do or to say or who to talk to.

Okay, well, we uh we have your information, and if there's some um department heads or or folks who might be able to get back to you with some um updates, maybe there are some plans.

I can't speak to that at this moment, but um we have your information.

We have uh phone number or phone number and address, yeah.

Um if you can leave your email on there too.

Um that would be helpful.

I can uh give it to you.

Yeah, if you can include your email, I appreciate it.

Okay, and uh and we'll see if someone has any updates regarding that that situation.

I thank you.

Okay, uh any other courtesy to the floor on non-agenda items.

You want to speak?

Go ahead.

Uh just uh name for the record, please.

Uh David David Bortz and uh I don't know if there's a board or committee or anything like that, but I know William Allen High School.

We used to have a William Allen High School construction company.

It was a club that we organized and we'd partner with Alvin H.

Butch.

And uh we designed the 17th Street right there on uh 17th Street, I think it's Turner.

That digital sign there, we helped design that and we partnered with uh Alvin H.

Butts for that.

And uh what I wanted to do for a class gift, even for you know the athletic programs and everything.

I've been trying to organize it, but it's sometimes it just falls through when you get past from person to person to person to person, and then nothing really happens as uh so I was wondering if somebody or some organization could help organize it.

We have uh a mold of a reading bench that I wanted to donate for our graduating class to another class of William High School.

We already have uh a molden design of it, but we don't have it actually just built yet, and then it'd be shipped uh cost of it was probably about three thousand dollars or so.

And uh just wanted to see uh how I'd be able to go about implementing that if I need to talk to the Allentown School District or uh the council people as well, or or how I would go about the uh or if I can get any assistance or help.

Because I I think it'd be a great idea for uh providing something like that for William Island High School having a nice reading bench right outside.

You have some beautiful trees and architecture and everything else.

Maybe a brand new paint job would be nice too for the high school, especially after waiting going to the States.

Yep.

Um so I am going to defer because there's one of my colleagues that can totally take care of this, and uh this Mr.

Pungo next to me.

And I think he can give some um some of his thoughts, but let's leave your information.

You guys can continue the conversation at later date.

Go ahead.

I was gonna say this is typically not a city council thing, but you've struck some luck because I actually still help with the construction company over at William Allen, still going strong.

Uh so if you leave your info, I'd love to connect with you.

We can get you in touch with uh Principal Knopf over at William Allen uh and just kind of going through the next steps here.

I think it's a great thing, and we always appreciate people who want to help and and continue to give back to the schools.

Uh so I will also have Genesis if she doesn't mind also sharing.

I don't know if you're sticking around, but uh sharing my contact info with you can also have that.

All right, thank you so much.

I definitely I know the future generations definitely appreciate it too as well.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That's great on your part.

Okay.

Um can I actually follow up with a couple things kind of dragged my memory?

Sure.

Oh, coming up, and uh we'll wrap up cursey the floor like quick.

Um so I used to stay at the Allentown Rescue Mission at 355 Hamilton, and it's great that it's only men only.

I think at some point having a female only place, which I know there's other things like that, but specifically for females as well.

So I get nervous.

Public speaking.

So that's one to kind of maybe based off of what he was talking about.

The not the ATC for the Atlanta, you've got the digital screens, right?

And it makes it pretty easy to figure out where you're going, what bus, what where you're what direction at the BTC in Bethlehem, they don't.

Now there's not a lot of space there, but you do have the garage car, the car garage.

I don't know, it does seem to be nice to put digital screens at that one because at least for me, I can clearly see what I need to where I need to go instead of asking over and over and over again, and really relying on people who may or may not have your best interest in mind.

Okay, it's just a cool thing.

So quickly remind me or no for the record.

Sorry, Michael Staller.

Okay, thanks.

And secondly, you said the Bethlehem Transit Center.

Yeah, so you have the screens at the ATC here.

So the BTC, I I mean, I go to I I use them all, but BTTC doesn't have you have like the actual like the physical with the typing.

Yep.

So the screens give you more, the digital screens give you more info to figure it out.

Well, and and the timing of when they're sorry, go ahead.

I'm happy to hear that.

Uh, we don't have any control over Bethlehem's facility, but you have to reach out to Bethlehem City Council.

But uh that's something that you can reference now, it's my bad.

Sorry, it's happening.

No, it's okay.

And you can tell them like, hey, you saw this in Allentown and you would love to see it over there.

Um, unfortunately, we we don't have any control over that.

No, that's I should have my I appreciate it.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Thanks for uh for mentioning that.

So okay.

Um we appreciate it, and uh we're gonna keep the meeting moving.

So uh we're gonna get started with um our first agenda item, which is um a presentation on Bill 46.

Um Ms.

Ortega, go ahead.

Uh Bill 46 amends part one administrative legislation, chapter 75, pensions and retirement, article three police pension fund by adding a new section 75-5-3 limited deferred retirement option plan.

Okay, thank you.

And uh I'll pass this off to the administration.

Uh take it away, Mr.

Kane.

Okay, sure.

First, I'd like to uh I just like to take a moment and and mention that related to the bill, but we want to recognize the victims of the tragic gun violence over this over this weekend, and uh I want to let you know that uh we're gonna be hosting uh the mayor's gonna be hosting tomorrow, our district attorney, uh member a few members of council and community leaders to to talk about our uh strategic plan that we've put together on uh violence.

So I just like to mention that if I can.

Moving on, uh we're here tonight to present on the drop pension plan.

I have with us uh I think you know, Chief Roca of the Allentown police department.

We have Sergeant Chris Matthews, who is the president of the FOP.

Um we have uh Bita couldn't be with us, so we have finance people here from her office too who can uh talk about the numbers.

I think you already know that the the drop pension is uh an opportunity for us to retrain to retain uh some of the top leadership of the department and other officers who who have been here for 20 years who can stay and help mentor and train other younger, newer officers as we bring them in.

We can avoid uh we have a number of officers re eligible for retirement.

Now we can avoid uh a mass retirement if we provide this benefit.

I think it's best uh the chief did a good ex did a good job explaining this uh in the information session the other day.

I'd like to turn it over to Chief Roca, who is pretty good at the details.

Thank you.

Good evening, counsel.

Uh, one of the things I want to make clear first and foremost is that this is not about a money grab.

This is about making sense with public safety, and part of that is an investment in the officers.

For many years, Allentown has built its reputation on public safety, public works, public health.

And in this capacity, with our officers, the pension, the drop pension is something that establishes as a retention tool.

It doesn't have a brain drain.

We're talking about years of experience, and I have lived through it.

When we weren't when we went to 160 some officers many decades ago, it really impacted public safety where crime started to creep up, where we weren't able to answer calls as quickly, and the issues were coming out of hand.

We have built through hard work through the dedication of many officers over time and along with our partners in the community, a safe environment.

Is there work to be done?

Absolutely, there is work to be done.

But this drop, what it will do, it will allow officers to maintain their positions, move forward in a positive way, and add years of service to the police department.

Currently, as it stands, we are looking at about a potential of 40 officers that can retire at the end of this year.

That would bring us down to that 165 number.

This is not like a threat.

Policing takes investment.

Public safety is something that is very valuable.

And many of these officers have worked decades in the department, and it's important that we keep them.

Having said that, it's also about making sure that from an administrative standpoint that we're working to replenish the body and actually make sure that we hit our authorized strength.

Recruitment is very difficult in this day and age.

And many departments are fighting over the same pool of candidates.

And so it's really a market for an individual wanting to become an Allentown police officer.

And what makes the city attractive to an officer or to a potential officer, it's that they get involved in actual fighting of crime, of conducting investigations, of building relationships with our community, specializing in different things that we have in our department, and becoming building those relations to the point where it's not just a job, it becomes a passion, it becomes a career.

And I will tell you, last year we had 14 retirements, which was a little bit above the uh the number of what we normally have.

Had we had the pension back then, that number would have probably only been four officers that would have retired.

And that's not to say that we had a drop in service, but we have a uh a drop in individuals that were being productive in their assignments, which had led to massive reductions in crime because it takes individuals that have a passion for law enforcement for getting feedback for the community.

And this at no end is an easy job.

It's something where it takes commitment by the people that decide to wear the uniform.

It is very, very easy to go after a police officer and say, You're not doing your job.

But I invite folks to take the test, become part of the Allentown Police Force, and establish a legacy of compassionate change that we want to bring here to the city.

And having said that, with this being a retention tool, it's important that we also continue to recruit.

And having this available would be a good recruitment uh tool for individuals considering where they want to go and where they want to put a career in.

What I'm noticing in trends in employment is that individuals will work at a location for three, four years and move on to something else.

What we want to have is individuals that are career-minded, that want to serve the city for 20 plus years, that want to be able to move forward.

And if you're not aware, the city of Allentown currently has two different pension systems.

One where you have uh those who were hired before 2009 that go up to uh 70 percent of 25 years, and then those who were hired um after or yeah, after 2009, who are limited and restricted to 20 years at 50 percent.

So the incentive to stay and cultivate leaders and a succession plan becomes more difficult if there's not an incentive to stay.

When you're talking about investment and what's important, if we go down to the number of 160 officers, it will result in massive amounts of mandatory overtime.

And we can't afford that here in the summer coming up.

We've realized some incidents of violence which are very, very bad for our community, but we're not gonna sit back and do nothing about it.

Our officers are invested in making sure that we solve crime, that we hold people accountable, that that person who decides to squeeze the trigger of a gun and causes a homicide is brought to justice because the same pain that the community feels reverberates within the department as well.

We do not want to see tragedy on the streets.

And that's why I'm coming to you.

I implore you consider this and to make sure that it's implemented.

And my position is if it's fiscally sound and follow through with a transparent process, it's going to be a benefit to the city.

And as we work to improve our position within the within the city, address the quality of life crimes.

We have many different plans and situations that we are implementing and are working with our partners to improve that quality of life.

But it takes the most important asset.

And I sit here to you.

So it's been five years that I've been chief.

And in that swearing in, in that uh confirmation process, I talked about my plan of changing Allentown, and it has bore fruit.

We have reduced crime, we have improved technology, improved uh relationships with our community.

Not everybody's gonna be agree with policing, but that's okay.

We'll still be there to serve that person and that community and that neighborhood.

But I want to let you know that our point today is about talking about the drop and what what it's about.

And for me, I look at it as an investment in maintaining the good officers that we have that want to continue providing Allentown and not consider going to a second career, but rather they can look at having the drop pension in addition to the pension, which will help them financially.

We talk about wellness initiatives, and it's not only about resiliency and mental health and those things on the officers experience a high level of trauma for the various calls for service that they're on.

And part of this is to make sure that they're taken care of, that our officers have worked for 20 plus years and have something that they can value, an investment into our community, showing and telling our officers that we value them.

And there's no cost that I can think of that can fit that, but these are all steps in the right direction.

And I would like to invite uh Sergeant Chris Matthews from the FOP to kind of speak on that.

I wanted us to speak together because technically I'm the administration, the police administration, and he represents the body, which is our our police unit.

But I think we marched together in this in saying that we want what's best for the officers, which in turn will be valuable for our community.

Thank you, Chief.

Uh, I'd first um like to just start off by saying thank you to the administration for bringing this benefit to the the FOP and uh working with us to kind of work out through all the finite details of it.

Um that's kind of hard to follow up on Chief Roker after that speech, so I apologize.

Um I'm mainly here to answer any questions.

Uh again, the point of our membership is to advocate for them.

This is something that our membership has voted on that they are in favor of doing and seeing carried out, uh, and it is a mutually beneficial benefit for the city of Allentown as well as the members of the Queen City FOP.

If there's any questions, we'd be happy to take any questions.

There's financial matters I would defer to finance to answer some of that.

Okay, um so thanks for that.

And uh, we can we um if any of my colleagues do want to ask questions, uh, tonight was more informational for us, um, and we are gonna continue to um to develop questions and uh and thoughts on this, but in the meantime, if anyone has any questions, they're welcome to ask now.

Um go ahead, Mr.

Pungo.

Just one thing, not necessarily a question, but more so maybe a clarification.

I think for the folks who may watch this back in the future, for the folks here.

I I think we've talked about the drop program, but maybe can we in basic terms explain how it functions and and what it actually does?

So essentially, when an officer decides to enter the drop, they have to make the superannuation number, which is a years of service to the police department.

Now they can achieve that um a couple of ways, serving the full 20 years, or let's say they have some military time, they can buy back military time.

So if they're 18 years on the job, they can purchase two years of service time from their military time, bringing them to 20.

Once they hit that 20 years, they can enter the drop pension for five years.

And then within that five years, they can stay up to that amount.

But at that point, they can they're essentially their pension payments get put in a uh in basically like a bucket account for them, and they get paid by the city, so they still get compensated as working the job, and their pension is basically frozen at that point because technically they're retired, but they're still an active service.

When that officer decides to retire after two, three, four, or five years, they will get a lump sum payment based upon that to their to their uh in addition to their pension or any 457 uh contributions, which is a separate investment account that they can pay into that.

If I may just add, so the um their pension while they are continuing the work for the city for up to 60 months, uh stays that money stays in the city's in the pension fund itself, so it continues to accrue interest, which benefits the pension fund as well.

Uh, and it's only upon their separation that that money gets pulled out of the pension fund.

And on top of that, their their pension is locked in at a 20-year rate as opposed to uh even after they stay an additional five years, their pension is not recalculated for a 25-year pension.

It's stays at the lower amount for the 20-year pension instead of the 25th pension increments though will change if they are hard before 2009, and if they're a 23-year veteran and they decide to enter the pension, we'll be at a 23-year pension based upon that pre-2009 pension numbers.

Thank you.

No, I thought it was good to have a clarification for some of the folks who may not know.

Okay, uh, Ms.

Hantos, um hi.

Are officers able to switch pension plans?

Is that what we're trying to do here to get them to no?

So what happens is we have a defined pension.

So after they serve a certain amount of time they're eligible for that pension.

What a drop pension or deferred retirement option allows that officer to can to technically be retired, but can tenually actively work for the police department.

And the best is that you don't lose their experience and time for serving the department, and that's where the benefit comes in.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Okay, uh, Ms.

Garlack, go ahead.

Uh uh two questions.

Um, what potentially could be some of the downsides to doing this?

There's always pluses, and then there's sometimes deltas.

There's sometimes if it's not properly tracked through finance and things like that, it could put things at risk.

That's why I was advocating.

I'm gonna defer to our finance people, kind of talk about the finances so you can have a full understanding of what the MMO obligation is, the municipal obligation, how that might rise in different uh scenarios.

I don't see Bina or Ms.

Mattel.

We have a finance person.

We have from Bina's department.

Bina's off this week, she's caring for her elderly parents.

So I'm gonna have Jen Pell and Char here um answer some questions about what could be a negative thing for uh drop pension.

Um well, specific to the MMO increase, the cost study was provided.

Um cost study is based on a lot of different assumptions.

It's primarily by officer behavior.

So those assumptions, the amount that it says the MMO is going to increase in year one, year two, year three, is all dependent on how many officers enter the drop, how long they're in the drop, when they leave the drop, how old they are, um, how much their pension was.

So a lot of those assumptions um can change, and that that's an important thing to any cost study.

It's based on assumptions, uh specifically about behavior.

Uh but page one of the cost study is what it's basically telling you is that our current MMO is 9.5 million.

If we were to uh enact this job as written and assume that people will leave based on their current retirement assumptions.

So people are going to continue to leave based on the same assumptions that we had before, which is 20% might leave if they have 20 years.

Another 30% might leave if they have 23 years.

After 25 years, we assume everybody's going to retire.

So in scenario one, we keep our assumptions the same, and the cost that the actuaries are saying that the MMO would increase from 9.5 million to potentially 10.6 million.

So that's an increase of 1.1 from the baseline to scenario one.

And then scenario 2 is saying that once you have a drop, everyone will enter the job as soon as they are able to, which is that 20-year minimum.

And scenario two changes behaviors, and that's where you're seeing your baseline goes from 9.5 million up to 12.3 million.

But that's a general explanation between scenario one and scenario two and what the potential increase could be.

But again, it's all based on assumptions.

And I just want to add to the point.

So if the drop is not put in and you have multiple officers retire, you have a very real scenario where mandatory overtime costs could come into ticket, which could be potentially more than the impact of that MMO.

So it's really a balance in seeing who is going to kind of leverage the drop, who is not, who's going to stay, who's going to go.

And you have to understand that some people might stay in the drop for two years, others might take the full five years, but it depends upon that individual person's situation and what they're looking for.

Thank you.

And my second question is would that officer who takes advantage of the drop, would they hold their same rank or yes, they hold their same rank, their same position, and they continue serving the department in their capacity.

Okay.

Would that kind of all that?

I in a way it can for the position, but it allows for that officer to mentor the replacement.

Because now you know that you have that officer there for maybe two, three years.

And if that individual in progression and rising in the ranks, so to speak, they can be mentored to take the place of that officer when the time comes for that officer who entered the drop to leave that position.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

So you had mentioned one of this is loosely related to the drop on, but you mentioned one of the challenges is recruitment.

Um, what do you think of like if you were to say the top three things that hammer recruitment?

Um, in I think you said it's more challenging.

You say other things that are that are blocking that at this point.

I would say in police work in general, um, younger people may not want to work do shift work.

A lot of individuals are choosing to work as entrepreneurs or other types of businesses, like I said, many of the younger generation from what I'm seeing are not staying at jobs for a career-wise, and it could kind of you know impact us.

But once we have individuals, especially younger officers that come on the job, they want to be uh invested in a career.

One of the questions that I ask uh potential candidates when they come in front of me at the Chiefs interview is why do you want to be become a police officer and why in the city of Allentown?

And historically, what has been said by people is that they want to join a department that is doing police work and they want to make it a career.

So those are one of the things that for young people, it's important to understand that this is one of service above self, you know, because you're coming to work on your birthday, you're coming to work when your family is going on some sort of trip.

And so these officers not only sacrifice their time, but they're living through impactful traumatic incidents every day on the job.

Okay, thank you.

Um, one other question I had with with respect to recruitment, and I and I apologize if this already exists, but um, given the fact that we have two schools that are graduating people every year, is there a mentorship program that takes place with um uh trying to try to foster people to move in from students to actually policing in the city that they live?

Yes, on a couple of different ways.

Through our community outreach unit and our PAL program, we conduct a lot of mentorship with our young people that are within the All-town School District and in nearby districts as well.

And part of that process is to have them speak with different um types of people from different careers, and so they get a look into what they might want to achieve.

And in that vein, we especially individuals that want to become Allentown police officers, and there have been some uh PAL kids that have you know gone on to college and want to become part of the Allentown Police Department, and it's a great thing to see because you know they're they're they're they're kind of removing the wall almost of seeing a police officer in uniform and realize that behind that uniform is a live and breathing human being that experiences emotions, and so that connection stays with that young person and they and they thrive to want to become a police officer.

Okay.

It's good to hear, because I mean I I think from the city's perspective, the more the more we have people who have grown up lived here that work in this in this capacity, that is much more of a connection to the community that you could ever have since you since you grew up here.

So I think it's a an excellent thing to lean into.

Um, one of the questions I had with respect to, I think to what council person uh girl had mentioned with with the kind of moving up through the ranks kind of uh perspective.

So if I'm understanding this, um, if implemented, it's really on a maximum of five years, but are we not effectively, and I understand it's rolling, but just facing the same cliff within the next five years of that 40 people that would then just want to what will be required to leave at that point.

Right.

So in that time, it behooves us to consider and heavy recruitment of individuals, which our team does do.

I mean, in the past few years, we've gone through about 800 plus candidates to become police officers, and the process itself is very stringent for that reason, because we want only the best to become Allentown police officers because they do have a lot of the public trust, and the government does give them a lot of different uh power, but with that power comes responsibility.

So we want to be able to have and attract the best type of person to become a police officer, and that becomes where as it as an officer comes in and they're moving up to the ranks, it's important for us to continue to work to hire, and that's why we've established our background assessment unit within the hiring process so that we can recruit and attract the best, go through their personal background histories and uh continue to test and go to different places for recruiting.

I myself went back to my college at King's College and did some recruiting over there to get college graduates that were from that capacity, and I had a bunch of business majors actually come over and said that they were going to put in for the uh the test.

So it's a very dynamic thing for recruitment, and in that same recruiting thing that King's College had that day, were recruiters from the state of Virginia.

So this isn't just unique to Pennsylvania, it's around the nation.

It's a very competitive thing, and we want to be able to put ourselves on a position where that drop pension, although it's a retention tool, also serves as a good recruitment tool.

So as people options are and they're deciding between the state police, Bethlehem Police Department, Easton, South White Hall, Allentown, they're gonna look at what what is the best career move for themselves personally.

Okay, thank you.

And I guess that's kind of where I'm starting to where I was trying to ask the question from a recruitment initially of what the blockers were.

I'm I'm just trying to better understand if we if we kind of knew we were going to be at this position now and recruitment has been challenging.

How is that gonna be different in the next X you know one to five years with with 40 people leaving?

Like how are we gonna change that dynamic?

Because that's because as I've stated, that drop pension, if implemented would be an excellent form of a recruitment tool, because even though a person might look and see this is the starting salary, you got to think long term, especially if you're gonna make a commitment to a career.

So having the ability to put that out though, that the Allentown Police Department has a drop pension would be attractive for a potential candidate that is considering where they want to you know drop their anchor, so to speak.

So the people that you had mentioned are that are not looking to stay in using a lot of people younger folks are not looking to, I can't believe that's it, younger folks now, but um people that are just getting their careers.

We'll go with them that like staying in a job along for longer periods of time, that's a that's a challenge.

Do you see I guess I'm trying to understand if that's already a blocker right now, regardless of what's out there, yeah.

Are do we feel like we're gonna see that long-term thought process of what that's gonna look 20 years out, um, given that you're saying that that's a that's a common problem regardless.

It's a common it's a common thing, but I think once an individual becomes part of the police department and they actually sit down and think about their future and long-term planning, the mindset changes, and it's more about how can I you know invest myself to not only grow myself professionally, but also look out for the future because when sometimes when people go into job hunting, they're thinking about how much does it pay, right?

But then at the end of it, the question becomes is there a pension?

Is there uh health benefits?

What is my copay?

You know, all the different little things that someone might not think about when they're younger as a student or somebody graduating college or somebody graduating high school.

Because I've come across plenty of young people, and I'm talking from 18 to 20s that still you know don't know what they want to do in their lives, and that's okay.

Because sometimes it's about experimentation and not knowing really what you want to do as a person, but in experiencing the good that you can do as a police officer is an amazing transformative power for somebody to experience because it was because of their specific interaction that they had a very good outcome, and that's something that you can feel good about.

There are gonna be times where there's bad things that happen, but we're able to kind of navigate through that, and that's where officer wellness, resiliency, and knowing that you are making sound decisions in your career process helps.

It removes those blocks, it changes the mindset, especially at uh many times we get young officers in their 20s.

They might not be married, they might be dating, that type of thing, but then they get married, they have kids, and you know, they go through with their life.

And part of those things, you know, we kind of mature and we kind of understand how things happen.

And we want to have that officer coming in from a police administration, that is a that that's the investment we want to make.

And then for um my fellow colleague, Sergeant Matthews, from the FOP standpoint, the Faternal Order of Police, they're there to ensure that the collective bargaining agreement is fair and that it's outline written of what the benefits of being a police officer are.

And I invite anybody that wants to become a police officer to take that challenge and go through that step, and they can also then get a pension and the many benefits that we get because it is an outstanding job.

If I didn't think it was, I wouldn't be here.

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay.

Um go ahead.

Sorry, and I I may be ignorant of some of the details, I will admit I'm still wrapping myself around this whole program.

I I'm curious, and again, this is where I say pardon my ignorance, is this in any way as currently drafted, tailored to specific Allentown service or retention, or or as it's drafted, is there any way to do that?

So uh I'm thinking, you know, in what ways does it, you know, give you credit to people who have served in Allentown specifically over that time, or if someone who you know is newly eligible, uh, you know, is it tailored in any way to their time with Allentown?

I think that's the foundation of how this is set up.

If as soon as they hit the superannuation time, which is the 20 years, that's the time that they you know get considered to enter the drop.

Like I said before, if they utilize, if they served, let's say in the military for five years, and they only would have let's say they go for 18 years, now they say, okay, I want to buy two years of my military time, that will get them to that number of 20, and then they can enter that drop pension at that point.

And the other thing too that I want to say to council, so you have an understanding is after those of us who were hired before 2009 are all retired, the pension is only gonna be where um you retire at 20 years at 50.

I am coming up on 25 years.

I'm the chief of police, I went through every rank in this department, I've experienced many things.

I want the same for our officers and experience a a career where they are not only fulfilled in their own personal goals and aspirations, but they're able to give back and be confident that when they're doing the right thing, those positive outcomes are gonna be there.

And so that's what kind of motivates somebody to become a police officer because it's something where it's a it's it's a job unlike any others.

It's more than a job really.

Chief, if you don't mind, I I'd like to add to you know, as someone who's not involved with the uniform services, sometimes they don't I don't think they always realize the way we look at things.

The the the focus on Allentown service the versus buying your military time, that's actually a a law that's not really unique to this to this contract.

You always have the right to buy your military service, and I think it's a it's a federal law, I think.

Um further, I don't know if you know this.

I didn't know this, but uh our police officers don't they're not gonna get social security.

I'm right about that, right?

Chief So uh I don't I think people don't realize this is their only retirement.

They're we don't pay the other half of the FICA for them, and and they're never gonna get they're not eligible for social security.

Um so those are I think those are two relevant things that as you look at the payments that you know they're gonna receive for the rest of their life.

I mean, those are two things that factor in.

Absolutely, and I just want to clarify one thing.

My question about service was not specifically to military.

I'm wondering is there ever a scenario where somebody let's say had some military service?

Let's say they worked in Bethlehem for 15 years and then they come to Allentown.

You were talking about the uh police buyback, and so that's something that is currently going through the process of being worked out.

Okay.

Okay.

Um any other questions for the chief.

Um just uh just out of curiosity, just so some vitals.

The current your current force right now, as of today, is how many officers?

205.

Okay.

Okay.

And average recruiting, like an in a normal year, like how many new officers do we come in?

Is that a is there an average?

I mean you can kind of use the average of out of a a list of a hundred, you might get three to five.

Okay.

Out of applicants, you mean out of a hundred applicants?

Out of a uh out of one testing session, if you get, let's say a hundred applicants out of that, you'll get about three to five.

Okay.

So I mean, how many men and women are making it to the finish line and actually putting on a uniform for the city of Allentown, like every year?

So I would say about five to ten, depending upon.

I'm just looking for averages.

Um average five to ten, these are new.

I don't want to call them rookies, but they're they're new and they're coming on board.

Okay.

Um one question I have is are is this tool is this being used in other municipalities that that are have been using this over the years and tested it.

And any examples out there, case studies.

It has been used by different municipalities all throughout the commonwealth of Pennsylvania on a very successful way.

Um I think part of this, but the drop, I believe, was was also put in for chiefs that were in different police departments as a way to kind of compensate them for their service.

But in this instance, I do know of many municipalities that use the drop and have done it successfully to keep their staffing in their departments.

Now, Allentown, uh, you know, we're the third largest city, so we have a pretty sizable police force.

It could be a lot more, uh, which I want to get it and grow it more, but it takes good people that come through and that can pass our process because we do get a lot of we have a lot of people, but at times we have to disqualify certain individuals because of past behavior or just because of incidents that we cannot allow to enter to the police force.

Okay, no, thank you.

Um Vice President Botha, go ahead.

I would like to know what I would like to know is how much will this cost the city every year?

Do we have uh rough estimate?

What's the worst?

So, as uh Jennifer Pellanchar said, is that the MMO could potentially grow depending upon the scenario that is there?

So it depends how many people enter the drop, which would impact the MMO.

So if page one it's on page one, and it lays it out there depending upon what the scenario has.

So it could cost the city.

Um I have it written down here in the first scenario from nine and a half million, it would go up to 10.6 million.

In the second scenario, uh starting at 9.5 million, it would go up to 12.3 million.

Now, like I said before, absent this outside of the drop, if there are retirements, the mandatory overtime have to hire would come very close to um high payments in my in my estimation.

And uh my next question is um what about taxpayers?

Who's who's gonna be paying for all this?

Let's say that is 10.6 million dollars.

Where are we gonna find the money?

I mean, I think that retention um is is important.

Uh, when people leave, I mean, they're leaving a wealth of you know, of knowledge of information, and we do want the retention.

But I'm also concerned about the taxpayers.

And that's a very important question.

I think part of that discussion is the overall budget of the city.

When we're planning for 27, where we're and an on, we need to consider where would we make our investments, what is important for the city to invest in.

And one of the things that I pride myself on in as police chief was to be a good steward of the taxpayers' money.

We don't want to waste uh we don't want to spend wastefully, want to make sure that the investment so that our citizens can have the good um return of the investment of their of their money.

And if I can add uh a little bit for the on the on the financial situation, you know, with 10.6 million, I mean the taxpayers or our budget, we've always had the uh we'd have always had to obligate a minimum municipal obligation, an MMO payment for this and all of our pension funds.

So it's not the it's not that it's a new 10.6, it's the increase of somewhere the way to look at these things, I think uh most effectively is if you look at it, it's a range, it could be a range from six hundred thousand dollars to to maybe two million dollars, depending on how many people end up in the program, depending on the offset of overtime that that we would have to come up that we would have to pay.

I mean, I think our main our overtime budget is like over two million dollars as it is.

So when you offset all those things, the financial impact could be $500,000, it could be $600,000, it could be two million dollars.

That's the range that you're working on.

So that means that we don't know how much this is gonna cost.

You know, it's it's a range.

So right now we we're gonna be building the police station, which I think that you know we need we need it, it's gonna be it's gonna be beautiful and and they deserve that and more.

That's gonna cost a lot of money.

Then we're gonna be building the fire station.

That's gonna cost a lot of money.

I mean, we have so many things that we're building, and also so many issues in this city.

Where where will the money where are we gonna find this money?

That's that's that's my concern.

I think it's and I'm not saying that I'm against the drop.

What I'm saying is that we have to be responsible.

This is irresponsible if we if we get to the drop right now, not knowing the exact number, not knowing where we're gonna be finding the money.

So we really have to be very conscientious, you know, um, when we look at all the projects and all the issues that the city have at this point.

Of course, but it's not new that it's a I mean, it's always a range.

We don't know how many police officers will have next year.

And if we do this for the for the police department, what about the fire?

What about what about the fire department?

What about the unions?

So we we have we have I mean, this that's when we need to see numbers.

We need to see numbers, we need to find out, you know, what we're gonna be finding.

I mean, we don't have anything else to sell.

Well, the golf course now.

I mean, think about this.

There's a lot of things, and I'm not saying that I'm against it.

I'm just saying that we have to take everything under consideration.

Of course, to answer your question, we you know it's always a range.

I mean, it's not that you don't know the numbers, you do know the numbers.

It's gonna be a range of five hundred thousand to two and a half million.

And the storm water.

What about the stormwater?

So the stormwater.

That's so that's that's a big problem that we're having.

That's a big issue that we have in this city.

Of course.

Where are we gonna find the money?

Well, we're not gonna blindly stumble into a six million dollar obligation next year that that we didn't plan for, that's for sure.

So, you know, we just had a cabinet meeting where we instructed all of the department heads that we expect them to come in with 10% cuts in their first budget submittal, which you know, you guys will be part of that process.

The community cannot afford another tax increase.

Because I telling I'm telling you right now, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna vote for no tax increase.

Well, let's try hard not to have one then.

And the way we'll do that is we've asked for people to, you know, we've asked for submittals of uh of of reductions to begin with, right?

The other thing we can do is we can mitigate the loss of that uh we can be the potential loss, by the way.

It's not a loss, uh, but it's a potenti we have to be prepared that we might not prevail in a in a challenge.

But we don't it's it's possible that we could not experience that loss if we do, you know.

I think that we're gonna go to the municipal, we're gonna go to nonprofits, we're gonna go to the people that are the heaviest users of of stormwater management, and we're gonna try to get those people to to pay payments in lieu of taxes, they'd be nonprofits.

Because whatever the result of that decision, um, and I'm not I'm not a judge, I'm not an attorney, but you know, the the net result of of that change to stormwater policy would be the the removal of the the obligation of payment from big big users of water from nonprofits, and it would be placed on the back of you know, some resident who lives on Turner Street and just paid eight dollars for beef and they paid five dollars in gas to get there.

So I think morally we can go to the nonprofits and we can we can ask for payments in lieu of taxes, and we're gonna work hard to make it.

I guess we have to have good you know, good luck for us then, because I'm telling you, and don't get me don't don't get this wrong.

I mean, I love our police department.

I mean, my nephews are police officers, you know.

Um like when it comes to the police department, anything that they need, I'm there.

But again, again, and we have great police officers, awesome police officers.

But we we have to make sure that if we do this, we do this right because I'm telling you, this is this is gonna be a lot of money, a lot of money.

And another thing, will this be will this be done in five years, or will this be done forever?

Like, how does the drop works?

It's a it's rolling in in perpetuity, but if I could spoke over Sergeant Low if I may, I I think one of the things that the chief was had spoken to earlier was the the national issue that we have in in a in our country as far as the ability to recruit police officers.

Um for instance, when I I applied to I've been on the department for 12 years.

Uh, there were over 500 applicants that took my test, and my test was good for two years, and they hired off of that for the two years before it expired.

Uh we now the department now is running multiple tests in a single year and exhausting those lists, and we are not seeing those big recruitment numbers.

So the idea would be the idea of the drop is that it uh allows us to retain our officers because we're we I mean, as the chief said, that we're we're at 205 right now, currently, and we're we have vacancies.

It's not that we're trying to in the past the drop was designed 20 years ago to that those officers wouldn't count towards the budget number of officers so the department could swell and that's not the case here.

The case is that we're still down and we're going to be down, and and when we ran the numbers when we started this process a year ago, uh over the course of five years, the department had netted between retirements, sorry, retirements terminations and just officers leave.

They had over the course of five years netted one officer.

So the idea behind this is that if all these officers leave, you know, yes, there's a financial commitment, but if they have shifts that need to be covered, the city will still have to pay it.

It's just a matter of instead of paying that officer to stay, you're gonna be paying a junior officer, a new person time and a half to cover that shift, which is going to cost the city more money.

Now, I can't again this these are some pretty big hypotheticals that they uh didn't cover in the academy when I went through.

So I can't, I'm not gonna attest to the numbers themselves, but I can tell you that it's either that stay, or we have officers that have to work overtime to cover those officer shifts, which is it's you know a cost on either side.

And those officers, if they're stuck on mandatory shifts, can impact how long they're they're here.

They're gonna be looking for other employment.

They're gonna say, I don't want to work 16 hours a day because they usually only get eight hours of rest, and that's sleep.

So imagine working 16 hours straight, then you go to bed and you don't get to see your kids, you don't talk to your wife or husband or whatever, and now you gotta get back up again.

The impact of the cost, and and all the decisions here are made towards the benefit of our taxpayer, the constituents in the city of Allentown.

And we have a lot of unique issues that we are dealing with here in the city of Allentown that some municipalities don't have to deal with, and that's okay, because we are here, we have men and women who are ready to step up and face the challenge.

And that's why I said before the financial thing of this is making sure that when we budget, we do so responsibly, and we take a look at where are we spending our money.

Is the investment for a police department a positive thing?

Yes.

No.

Have there been administrations in the past that for 12 years have not invested in the city of Allentown?

Yes.

Was there no tax increases for 12 years where there was no infrastructure improvement?

Yes.

That is not the fault of this council, this administration, or this the people that are living in this city.

This is something that we have to correct now because it's about we want to help everyone that's here in the city of Allentown, the unhoused, those with mental health uh issues, those who have problems in our community.

But it's about when do we put our foot down, work together to find solution.

I'm not just talking about the drop now, I'm talking citywide, and we focus on the important things of making sound fiscal decisions to not only support what we're trying to grow now, but well into the future.

We have fire departments that are falling apart.

We have police stations that are too cramped, we have instances where people are not living in a house, maybe under a bridge or something, but our officers are showing up, they're donning that outtown police badge, and I know you support uh police.

And I know that this is a very important topic, but I believe if we're fiscally sound working together with council, working with uh our finance department, working with our residents and taxpayers, and they have an understanding of where the taxpayer money is going, that will be a benefit to everybody.

I have nothing to hide as the police chief, but you do have my passion and support to make sure that the city of Allentown, which I love, born and raised here, is where we're going forward.

And this isn't just about me, because technically I don't want the drop.

I'm not gonna enter the drop.

I'll tell you that right now.

But one thing I will do is work hard for this city.

Because I brings my hand up, and I was sworn in by Mayor Offlerbach with six other people, I made an oath, and I was gonna serve this city, and that's what I'm doing.

And I'm not trying to make an emotional appeal, but what I'm trying to do is show that I think when we sit down with our finance with us, we can all talk together, come up with a good plan of how we can make this happen and make it successful.

Thank you.

Ms.

Alpha, go ahead.

I've been listening to this.

I listened to this the other day.

I was always in favor of the police department, didn't quite understand the drop.

We had a meeting the other day, a lot of good questions were asked.

Um, and today I'm doing nothing but listening.

I agree with Ms.

Mota.

Decision we make today, 10 years from now, we could bankrupt the city.

We don't know that.

With Miss Gerlock brought up, uh it was a very good question.

I I feel our police department is running really well.

I I our system is uh Miss Gerlock brought up the point.

Well, there's a lieutenant who's gonna want to be a captain.

How long is it gonna be taking him to be a captain?

And I don't understand how not having the drop is going to cost us so much overtime, because what we're looking for to build this uh police force up is recruits.

Because what we're what we have been doing in the past, we have a great pension plan, they make a good salary, we treat our officers very well, good health care.

So they take tests, they get promotions, they become lieutenants, they become captains, and so on and so forth.

So why do we need the drop?

Why uh it'd be nice for for the uh these officers to say, but we have officers right behind them that are ready to take over that that job.

And why would there be what what was gonna cost us so much overtime for the upper echelon of the police force?

What we need to look to is recruiting, recruiting, and if there's any money we're going to spend in any way, shape, or form, and this is really a bad time to spend any money, as Ms.

Uh Mota pointed out, it would be to get more police officers, more recruits.

Um, and if a captain wants to retire at 20 or chief wants to, fine, but I I don't understand how the drop is going to help our budget, how it's gonna help the city, and how it's actually a deterrent if we don't have it, how it's really gonna help the police department.

It's because I we you run a great ship.

You recruit the best, you get them in there, they take tests, they become sergeants, they become captains.

And if there's a drop program in this lieutenant is sitting there for the next five, six years, because he's not gonna get the position.

And we've done it for so many years, and like Miss Moda said, and I agree with her 100%, we've got one of the best police departments, and you are one of the best chiefs we've ever had.

So for us to make this decision, I'm sure we're all losing sleep over this one.

And it's just not first of all, it's not a good time, and um I I don't see that it would make such a difference in our police department.

Can I can I take a crack and answer on that?

Council Personalfa.

I so to speak outside of the of the police terminology as a as a person who's not really involved in the uniformed services.

You just said we hire the best.

We have the you know, we we hire the best.

The reason that we hire the best, I think the chief just told you is out of a hundred people that go through, you know, that that we come into contact with, we end up with three.

So if you have a situation where if we can't properly help, you know, uh a large percentage of our force.

I think you said we have 46 people who are eligible to retire.

If they all left and we hired three new people or five new people, or even ten new people in this in their place, I think that's the situation we're trying to avoid.

The case for the drop is really an operational case, at least from from my perspective.

It's not a financial one.

I mean, you have to pay, you know, the the government services come in a cost, and and you have to pay for them.

We try to mitigate, we try to provide the best services at the best cost to the taxpayers, but there's a cost, there's there's a cost involved.

I think the chief references a time when when we only had 160 officers, and it was very difficult to properly police and keep the city safe.

That's really to me, and and what I've understood, that's that's the I mean that's that's at the core of what we're trying to avoid is a is a mass retirement with no real opportunity to backflip my wrong about that.

Chief.

I also want to stop any burnout from our young officers.

Working 16 hour shifts is not good for the mental health and wellness of our of our staff.

Um go ahead, Mr.

And one of the things sorry, one of the concern is this is forever.

This isn't just for five years or whatever, this is forever.

And I don't want to be that council person 10 years from now that bankrupt the city because we made the wrong decision at a at a really crucial time.

I mean, we have so many capital projects and uh the waters we have so many things going on, it's just not we could we could look at this another time.

We can hope that the police department is staying at the way it is, but uh it's it's it's really it's a lot of money and it's the wrong time.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Pungo, go ahead.

Okay.

So just kind of think about it in the private sector.

I think something that was said earlier kind of emulates a lot.

I mean, I think right now we're seeing a very challenging time for retention anywhere in any degree, any career, any industry.

I think it's something that everyone's struggling with.

Um you mentioned earlier this idea of weighing it with overtime and not, and and I think I mean it's a great point because I mean we already work a lot of overtime, and I think I I understand this is being thought of in the idea of of you know recruitment, but even in in keeping some of the retention if we're already working significant overtime, it seems like this is just gonna help us retain at this point and recruiting is still gonna be a struggle.

Um and it feels like we're just gonna this program.

I don't know that I feel in in this way that it'll grow our numbers, it might just help the stop the bleeding.

Uh and I think that's part of also weighing if where we currently are at, we have a lot of ready, and then we're gonna tack on the cost of administering the drop program, and that's only gonna keep us at where we're at, maybe not to the point.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am wrong if if we pursue the drop program and that our recruitment numbers shoot up, and we're able to bring in 20 officers a year to help help offset some of that overtime.

But I think it's it's a loaded kind of conversation between all of that.

So thank you.

Okay.

Um Mr.

Brenner, go ahead go ahead.

Yeah, so another question, I guess.

On that, um, and this is just trying to understand trends as well.

And I know I believe we're currently it's it's a negotiation year um with contracts, and I guess if we're seeing the trend for individuals to not kind of look at that career process, is it maybe time that we start shifting towards the mindset of maybe it's a higher pay, with the understanding that maybe we're not gonna have that longevity because most everybody is not having that.

And I don't know if that's considered in this process, but if it it feels like it seems like that's a challenge, it seems like that's a challenge among every single business organization.

Uh I'm just wondering to your point when you said earlier about like that's the that's the incentive to the the you know the the the carrot that people are looking for for for um coming to Allentown.

I just don't know that that's that's there.

I mean, I don't I don't know that it was there when I was in my 20s, and I don't I I don't know that I really don't think it's there for for for um people coming out right now.

Uh it just doesn't uh I'm not seeing that.

So I guess my only question would be is if that maybe could be considered it maybe that's that's a shift.

Um the other question I had with respect to overtime, and I do appreciate you calling out the hours, because I think that's that's that soft cost that is easy to overlook because it's it's a huge impact on mental health, it's a huge impact on performance.

Anyone who's working tons of hours, you're gonna get tired, you're gonna get frustrated.

It's it's it shortens a few zone things.

So I really appreciate that.

Looking specifically at the numbers, I'm not not removing that, but just kind of looking at just the numbers.

I know I believe uh uh you had called out that on a budget, we budgeted around two million for premium pay per per year.

Is that a fair that's that's fair what we had right now?

It's 2.6 right now.

2.6.

And if you don't, it's fine, but since it's since it's finance people, you know what we've in premium pay to date for PD, we've used with half the year, I'd probably say we use close to half of it, potentially.

That's typically the trend.

We did have the financial meeting and we were trending roughly with where we were at the year, it was kind of lining up.

Yeah, that's right.

I remember it coming through, but I couldn't off the top of my head, but thank you.

Um so if again, taking the personnel mental price process out of this, but if we had to go down that road and we had to ramp up uh overtime, what would be we potentially looking at?

Because I know even if it was six million dollars over the course of a couple years, that's been recouped at that point, given what this would be year over year.

So I'm just trying to understand where is that where's that breakout cutoff point where it's yeah it's it's and I don't want to say an acceptable risk, but you know, we're trying to balance all of these aspects of things because every you know that's made obviously is gonna have an impact to every resident here in Allentown.

So it's it's in in one way or another, from a policing perspective or a taxing perspective.

So um, I guess what I'm just kind of trying to understand is what what would you think worst case scenario would that even look like from an overtime perspective?

I mean, the overtime perspective is a very huge concern, but more so, and I I have to bring the mental health of the officer, they're gonna burn out much faster.

It's gonna subject the city to potential liability if an officer is making a bad decision because they weren't fully rested.

That comes back on the city.

You know, and if we're not staffing our shifts properly, you're gonna probably create a situation where officers will call a sick out and not report into work because you know they have to have some sort of break, and working back to back 16-hour shifts is not tenable.

Like that's not what we want of our officers because that's we expect our officers to be perfect all the time.

But they're human.

Yeah, sometimes mistakes are made.

But we cannot in good, I cannot in good conscience allow for my officers be exposed to mandatory shifts all the time.

Yeah.

Now, if there's a God forbid, a situation that happens and we have to have overtime that that's understandable.

But for me as the chief of police, where I'm looking at here, and I know that we can't I can't sit here and tell you these many people are gonna enter the drop.

But that's why we have that Chiron study, and we have the ranges that we work with.

And one of the things that that it's important for us to do in those instances is to recruit, because I truly believe that if the drop is implemented, it will be something that we grow within our police departments, thereby having more officers that will be paying into the pension system that'll be making it even more sound.

And so then the cost for the overtime amount will probably go down a bit, and we'll have a little bit more officers to do additional things here within the city, not just be a calls for service.

Because if we do draw up to 160 around that number, you're gonna see a lot of things that we do right now not able to exist in the future.

And that's not a scare tactic, it's the reality of it.

And I think one of the things that we have to do, yes, the taxpayers that's at the center of this.

But like I said before, when we budget, we have to think about where we invest money and what that return of investment is.

If counsel wants to say, you know what, I want that person.

I'm not saying you're saying this, I'm just gonna example.

If I want that person, that that lieutenant he wants to test for that, but now this lieutenant is staying for the drop in four years, that's part of it.

We grow.

There, it is important for officers to mentor each other as they're coming up the department.

I'm sure if you take a survey on each officer and say what was most instrumental to you in your career, and they'll think and they'll name a few names that was pivotal in their time frame.

And this is what the uncounted cost of instituting the drop is is that you you have these mentors and they're doing it right now, absent to drop, but you have mentors that impact the lives of these officers and show him show them the right way to do things.

And so as we're considering this and saying, you know, what would be the downfall?

Like if we if we keep, you know, if we go lower number or if we kind of talk about how do we um put money into recruitment, that quick fix is not gonna fix the underlying issue, and that's that we have to establish and continue to and grow the leadership within this department.

At one point I will be retiring.

That's not today, that's not tomorrow.

But there will be movements within the department, and my point is that you're going to have people stepping into the roles that may that may they may be ready for or they may not be.

I would much rather have a person step into the role where they were able to kind of be with that mentor, go through the processes, experience what it is to come to a council meeting, experience what it is to put a budget together, and talk about you know, how do we deal with with if something goes wrong?

All these things are very important, uncounted costs.

And if we think that, oh well, we've always done it this way.

You know, for me, I think the investment of this drop is is very helpful for not only the department, but for the community itself.

I think I forget who pointed it out, but you know, this is a contract year.

As we look at the contract and we're thinking about what's going on, many other police departments have also finalized their contract.

You don't think that our officers are looking to go to other places that may provide a better a better financial future for them?

We're already losing an officer to another department because he just gave his resignation notice the other day.

That's the untapped cost of not having a solid plan of action for the long term.

We know we're going to a contract discussion here, and we want to make sure that that discussion is fruitful for both the city and both for the police officers.

But it's something where we have an understanding, and our department has in the past done more with less.

That's not the path that I want to see going forward.

I want us to be moving forward, attracting the best candidate, and having this as a way so that we're able to truly make an impact and make our city that much safer.

And then one other um last question and thank you.

For and this is strictly from a procedural perspective, because this I this is not the world I live in.

Um so I apologize if the question is is kind of really ignorant in this one.

If for Allentown or any police department for that matter, ended up having an issue where they were really, you know, people left really quickly or something like that.

Does the state have any role to play where they would backfill, even if there's a cost to it, to try and try and help and assist in in municipalities.

And I I say this because I, you know, even in our area, there are area there's municipalities that are covered by the state police.

Does is there even a process for that?

There is municipal assistance that can be garnered, but that's typically for help while the shift is active.

I would very much argue against having another agency police in the city of Allentown as we are primarily the jurisdiction of purpose.

So, and I and I would imagine that the FOP would file some sort of documentation against that for an unfair labor practice.

It behooves us to make investments into policing now.

I think the outcome, if you're looking at, yes, we consider the cost.

We have to take a look and see what is what is important in our budget that we want to expend for.

I'm very much aware that the police budget is the is the largest expenditure within the city of Allentown, but again, it's also the most open for liability if you don't do things correctly.

And my mandate is to make sure that I perform my duties to the best of my ability.

And it's not just about me, it's about the 200 plus men and women that are in the department, and for those who are thinking of joining the Allentown Police Department, it's decisions we make today that will impact the future of tomorrow.

And I want to see that as we're talking and as we're discussing all the the potentialities that we don't lose focus of the current men and women that are within that department within our department, you know, working hard each day right now.

Thank you.

Uh Ms.

Garlack, go ahead.

Yes, uh a couple of questions that I are more data related, so I'm not expecting an answer now, but when are we expected to vote on this?

When are we voting on this next Wednesday or um today we're just doing information and I believe that we are um gathering more information um from our staff to try and understand this a little bit better?

Okay, so we don't it's not gonna be on the agenda next week.

I don't believe so.

Um from what I don't believe so now.

Okay.

Um so my questions um when it comes to other municipalities that have used this system, it'd be helpful to know specifically what those what those municipalities are and what the tangible outcomes have been.

Have they recruited more people?

Have they retained more people?

Has crime reduced?

Uh so it would be helpful to have those specifics.

Um let's see.

Okay, um, and then just in general, trying to wrap my head around uh the number of officers that are leaving, um, and why not the retirees they're retiring, but the folks, um, there seems to be a concern that folks are jumping ship for other jobs.

If there could be some data associated with that, like how many people are leaving each year, and are they going to forces or are they going into other career fields, or are they other reasons just to have very tangible numbers, not just you know, it's helpful to speak in generalities, but sometimes to see very specifics and is are there trends within that?

Um, has that changed over the last five years post-COVID?

It it would be helpful to see some of that.

Again, not expecting that tonight.

Um, but hopefully before whenever we vote, um, that would be helpful because I think to Dr.

Moda's point and to Miss AFA and probably some other folks up here, we're dealing with a lot in some ways unknowns.

Yes, we have a range of how much this could cost, but I think as much specifics as we can get would be cool.

Um I think we should be able to say, hey, yeah, we've lost eight officers and three of them went to him, two of them went to wherever.

Um so that'd be cool.

Um if I may actually uh one of our background investigators has reached out to me.

Uh our current list has 32 names on it.

Uh we hire about 10% of any given list and retain a little more than half of that over a five-year period of time.

So, and again, when we ran the numbers back in around this time of 2025, from 2020 through 2025, we had between all the officers that we had hired, as opposed to the ones that had resigned, been terminated or retired.

Uh it was 75 officers that had left, and we had one off uh 76 officers hired over that five year span.

Okay, process some of that.

If that could be sent to me, I'm a visual person.

I appreciate that though.

Thank you.

Um I think that yeah, that is all I have.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Um other questions or comments from the dias.

And to be clear, this meeting was a special meeting that was set up to just be informational.

We are not forwarding or voting tonight.

Um discussion.

So to be clear with her question, which is a fair question.

Um I will open this up to uh the public only regarding bill uh bill 46.

So if any of the public would like to speak about bill 46 to drop, um we'll take public comment, uh three minute max.

Any say um make it okay.

Yeah, can I can I come up with the name for the record, please?

Oh, yeah.

Uh main name is Michael Stoller.

Um so the drop, the X amount of money that goes into their pension from the start.

So that would compound you take the last three years of someone's retirement.

That's the most the three years should be the most they make, right?

So you take whatever you're putting in X amount, compounding on top of their already top three years for what they would be getting.

Sorry, I get nervous, sorry.

So that's a little bit of math there.

I'm not a mathematician or nothing.

This running numbers in my head a little bit.

Um, and then two, um, terms of pension and social security.

I think sometimes you get a little bit of both.

I think that down the road the federal government is looking at trying to dabble with both.

So you might get this to go through and then you double down on that.

And then in terms of like, you know, missing birthdays and families and whatever.

I think most state workers sacrifice a lot as well, along with everybody else.

And just to say one more thing, if you actually let people keep their jobs, maybe there'd be money allotted besides unemployment to maybe fund other means of whatever.

Okay, that's all I got, but that's a little bit there.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um so we're good.

Um, we got all our comments from Dias, and we will continue this conversation.

I want to thank you, Chief Roka, for all the information.

Uh also um Sergeant Matthews, I appreciate um you answering some of the questions as well, along with our finance team.

Um, thanks for everyone.

And we will move on to our next agenda item, um, which is um hold on.

Uh before you um take a next item to item.

There's been a group of kids that's been sitting here waiting for an hour to speak to your counsel.

This took a little longer than it all, and I don't think these kids are gonna have that much patience.

I think you might want to listen to what's going on with what's happening, especially with the youth violence going on, because these kids literally sat here since 6 30.

Okay.

Um yeah, yeah, unfortunately got here after we started.

Um, Mr.

Kane, ballpark amount for the encampment update.

Um well, I mean, I I look I I've what I intend to do is I presented you guys with the with the policy that includes the the draft uh that includes all of the comments that you you know that that you have given that other members of the community have given.

I mean it's gonna be I wasn't thinking we were gonna get done to that.

I was just gonna outline what you know what I was thinking it was gonna be the beginning of a conversation.

So could are these guys are they coming back?

Are they coming back?

Okay, I'm just asking a question.

Okay.

Um debating whether to go to them or you and at this point the decision may I guess it's now made.

So um I was just trying to figure out where we were we were we were at.

But I'll talk we we can go through it for as much time as you all would like to go through it, and I think at the end of it, I'm gonna tell you what our administration the things that they weren't super comfortable with, and we're gonna begin a conversation, and some of it may continue in a in a meeting that's not public, and we can do however however it shakes out, you know.

Okay.

Um sorry, I'm missing something.

Oh, if I just sorry, yeah, I asked if anyone looked at this yet.

Okay, yeah.

All right.

Okay, so um at this point, you have the floor, Frank.

Um a lot of papers here.

One second.

So start with the purpose.

The purpose, I expanded the purpose to you.

You can all re but uh you can all read, but it was important.

This this edit came from the uh commission, and they thought it was important to say that no unhouse and no unhoused person will be removed, no one will be evacuated without being offered alternative housing or shelter, city and other outreach personnel will help unhoused persons mitigate risk during the during the the process outlined.

Uh actually that was that was from the point of offering alternative housing or legal team uh identify it as Supreme Court case grant versus rant pass, the Supreme Court in the grant pass case.

Are you familiar?

I don't know if anyone's familiar with that.

Their concern was that if we lock ourselves into language, uh they did find it problematic for us to lock ourselves into that language, and in the context of me asking them to cut money, they said, well, you should set aside extra money for legal fees because you'll be challenged on that.

And so they suggest that we just that we just omit that.

I suggest that we um that we that we say we'll make an effort or that we know that we'll make every include some language to as to making an effort to house uh to to provide alternative uh lodging for people, but that was something that they felt strongly about.

So that's something that they would like to take out.

That's the first discussion.

I I assume they will discuss each point.

Um let's do it that way.

Um I mean I just I think it's probably easier to just kind of have the discussion as we move along, so we're not so we can kind of figure is that fair?

Yeah, if if we do line by line, we're gonna be your own night because I I'm gonna go through this thoroughly, and I'm sure I won't like some of it, so I'm gonna have to I mean the other thing we can do is I can kind of broadly outline all of the things, and you can know that and you can formulate expi uh responses, you know.

I mean, this is a there's a back and forth that's kind of the nature of the of the thing.

I mean, so from a procedural, this um will be on the next CD meeting for an actual like conversation.

So tonight's we're not taking any action.

He's just making the presentation.

Yeah, and we're welcome to obviously ask questions and and offer feedback, but I I'm assuming that there's gonna be more discussions about some of these points.

And that's why I asked him earlier.

I'm like, hey, how long do you think this is gonna be?

Because I was juggling between the group back there and him, and that's I'm so I wouldn't have minded it if you're got you.

So tonight we listen, we receive, and then later we dialogue.

And I'd like to also say, I mean, maybe it's more appropriate if we just do a non-quorum violating, you know, a few members of council who care about this come in and we we hash it out too after we've after we've gone over the you know, I mean that we can probably do that in one long meeting.

So that's the first item.

Um this is just so then the uh um the mitigate risk.

This could probably be better.

This could probably be better uh addressed or better form that what I what I want to do is it was important to one of the members of council to later.

There's a uh there's a risk assessment rubric, which hopefully is what makes the decision.

It's not really a subjective decision on the part of any person, but it's it's the it's the decision.

And I took the I thought the first one that was suggested was best, so it's clearest.

So I took that, and that's you know, that can people can opine and that can change.

But I think good.

So some of the things are like accumulation of garbage counts for points, right?

We don't have to use this amount of points.

We can change, but you know, we could also allow people to mitigate if if we notice that there's garbage and it counts for a number of points, and we tell you that and you clean it up, then it's zero points.

That's my that's my attempt, my attempt to capture that sentiment in the in the uh mitigate portion.

Scope of the policy.

Um that didn't change much.

I said five tents or structures or more, you know.

Seems like that was the number that everyone settled on.

I think the prior number was three.

We could, you know, whatever people think about that.

Um you know, the emergency uh emergencies are defined as life safety occurrences such as situations involving violence, imminent weather events, fires, or natural disasters.

That's my that is my attempt to capture what a real emergency is.

Um I'll get in.

We'll just we'll get we'll do one more.

Uh we think that we're gonna we're gonna we would like to just strike this entire parks uh this entire parks uh portion.

We already have an ordinance that deals with with people in parks after dusk.

We don't think it needs to be, it's not really appropriate that you can't just strike that portion.

Okay.

Um excuse me, are you waiting for anyone else to speak tonight?

Is there is there anyone else coming back?

Or sorry, what they just okay.

Um if you can let me know, Mr.

Simpson, I appreciate it.

So what's gonna be a good thing?

Yeah, just uh I just want to make sure where if there if there are any other folks around, like we'll wait till everyone's together and then make the move.

Um so we're gonna continue until we know for sure.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay.

It's a coach at all.

Yep, that's what I was waiting for.

Uh, you ready?

So um we're gonna pause, Mr.

Kane.

So um so I just want to mention, you know, earlier uh a few minutes ago I was I was determining how long he was gonna be because I was trying to figure out whether to go to you.

Sorry that um I wasn't able to do that as quickly as I wanted.

But um if you would like to speak, I can open up Kirsi the floor, and um it's a non-agenda item.

I'll open it up for you and uh let us know what's on your mind.

Oh, question.

And I don't welcome and uh the microphone should be there should be a button in the bottom.

Uh you see a non call.

And just for the record, if you can please give us your name.

My name is Paul Pinnock.

Um, I'm the founder of Lehigh Valley Pound for Pound.

It's uh youth organization that I uh founded.

Umrigally I started coaching in 2011, and um in 2018 is when I got my 501 nonprofit, and we've been um the purpose of the program is because of my life personally.

When I was when I was growing up, um martial arts saved basically saved me.

Um so those years were were very critical, 12 years old, 13, 14, because that's when kids are most likely to get the wrong friends and and things of that nature.

So this important this program was important to me because I know what it can do for kids at a certain age when you know and a lot of kids, a lot of problems uh happen because kids don't have hope.

Like you see it, a lot of kids don't have hope.

So what I try to provide them is a safe place, something to believe in, and someone who believes in them.

And when they have that, you know, that can give them the momentum that they need instead of going off in the wrong direction.

I live in Allen Town on 14th Street.

I walk the streets, I walk my dog, I walk over to the gym all the time.

And it's a concern of mine is seeing groups of kids, five, six kids doing things, and I look, I say that maybe 10 years old or 12 years old to 14.

And out of those kids, I think to myself, I say one of those kids has to be the leader.

And if that kid's not, you know, uh giving the right example, then that's gonna be bad for those other kids.

So it's basically there's kids leading kids.

It's all over.

So that's why I have this program so that we have adults to lead these kids.

So that that's what's uh important to me.

And I've had multiple success stories.

Um these kids are like family, they train hard.

However, it's very difficult because there's it's there's no there's really no money in this.

Um so making it to tournaments, travel, even our equipment, our equipment now is not that not that good.

The gloves I bought years ago, the kids want to spark they lack padding.

So a lot of them, they don't equipment costs money.

Um so a lot of kids that that we reach out to, they don't have the parents to be able to buy them $400, $500, and you know, help them with dues and other stuff.

So um these are the things these are some of the things that you know we could do some help with.

Okay, well, thank you.

Um I am very familiar.

Um in years ago, I worked with Karen, donated.

Um, she was great, and um someone that I um a little bit about the mission, and I know she's not involved anymore, but uh but back then she was heavily involved.

Yeah, yeah, we co she she was a co-founder of the 501.

Yep, and uh I've I I liked working with her, so um familiar.

Ms.

Ortega, is there a way we can get him information on the civic fund?

I was just gonna mention we're on the same page on that.

Um we do have an opportunity um for 501c3s in Allentown, providing services to Allentown um residents, um up to 2,000 dollars, and that could be a great opportunity to maybe replace some of your equipment, your aging equipment.

Um just curious, and I'm not this isn't a how's the new facility?

I know you're on 15th and Walmart.

It's it's not it's nice.

It's month, it's like month to month.

Okay, like getting the bills paid barely.

Okay.

Um I know we can get you the info in the civic fund.

Um any questions for my colleagues while they're here for these these folks?

Um go ahead.

I have a question.

I guess this is more less for you more for the city, but to meet the need that you're bringing up here.

Do I I know we have a lot of uh people who were are working for grants all the time for a lot of different things?

I guess my question is is there do we know if the city focuses on like this is very specific and unique need that I would imagine there's probably something out there from a funding perspective, but I just wanted I would I didn't know does the city ever, and maybe this is the question for you being the minute you sat down again.

So does does the city ever focus energy on on some of these specific like outreach things that are gonna get ingest up?

Yeah, so apologizes.

I had to run out to the back.

I had to run out to the back and I don't know what the show is only answer.

I know I remember voting, I'm sure but most of you remember, not our two new colleagues, but we voted on a didn't we have vote on a van for a grant?

So the city back in 2025, I remember voting on a transportation grant for his 501c3.

Okay.

That would enable them to buy a van to help transport the kids to different events.

And don't worry about that, by the way.

Um to transport the the kids to the events and and meets and so forth.

So I remember voting on that.

Yeah, we we we had it, but we weren't able to use it.

Oh, it wasn't used.

Like it's something about insurance, and we didn't have enough money to pay for the insurance.

Okay.

Because it's it's always been month-to-month.

Okay, okay, so this is a great man here.

I unfortunat I'm fortunately and unfortunately found about their situation through some of their students.

He's a great boxing coach, great mentor, but this isn't hisn't his safe space.

Right.

So he's not speaking to the need fully of what these children are dealing with.

First of all, they're dealing with, he said they're mom to month.

There's a possibility of their doors look closing.

There are 40 youth.

Not all of them can stand here today because again, look tomorrow.

Uh some of them are still in school, some of them are finishing projects, but a lot of them did show up.

There are 40 kids ages 11.

Okay.

Yeah, 12 to 18.

I mean, and they when they stick around in the program longer than you know.

12 to 18.

Our issue is in the last three weeks, we have had nine shootings under 19 and under, two murders, 18 and under.

We do not want to allow beautiful children who have been trained to defend themselves to only be left to the wolves.

This is an opportunity.

I don't know, this it should be under youth violence prevention.

I know there's other funding somewhere.

It's not just this $2,000 grant that's gonna save these babies.

Sometimes we have to think outside the box.

And again, this was brought to me by one of the students.

So I met coach through a student who's being coached through another program.

He said, Coach, my coach is great at boxing.

My coach is great at leadership, but he needs some help with business.

We've gotten them some additional help with the United Way, giving them some structure.

But this is a chance to save some children that need help right now.

I don't think the paperwork that you're gonna give him is gonna help him as much as you think, because there's still things that he'll have to learn in order to do that paperwork.

You know, the paperwork doesn't come with training.

It does it doesn't come with training wheels, it just comes with answers and questions.

So I just wanted to make sure that I I stood up for him.

Um, didn't really want to talk, because it's not my thing, but I saw his nervousness compared to what I see him do with these children.

Yesterday we had um they came to CADCA within 24 hours of this coach's call.

We had over 35 children in our office sharing their stories, telling them what this means to us.

We had a mother cry and say that coach saved her child's life, that he was getting bullied on in middle school by him learning some basic skills.

He stopped cutting himself.

He started hurting, he stopped harming himself, and he became a leader amongst his peers.

This is bigger than just a moment.

This is mental health, this is youth violence, this is an opportunity for us to be bold.

I know he means well, and I know he wants to say more, but not everyone's an all retour.

That's why I'm stepping up right now.

Okay, thank you.

I just wanted to say with respect to, I know we have a meeting with ASD coming up in a couple weeks.

Um, and I know that this isn't a quick fix on this thing because everything, you know, takes takes time.

But um I would be interested to know if maybe this could be something that we can ask uh given that if if it's if it's a location cult, and I know that you know Allentown School District has many locations.

Um I know there's there's uh complexities when it comes to insurance and that kind of stuff, but I guess would it be great to know if if there is spaces, if that's a primary concern that could be leveraged for not just your, you know, your your events or not your events, your your program, but like other other programs like this that could be could be leveraged, it'd be great to know if there's an opportunity for that, because it seems like that's student focused.

That's something that ASD would be interested in.

Maybe maybe there isn't.

I'm just not aware of it.

It would be great to learn.

I mean, we're just obviously we're learning of this as the same at this exact moment.

I don't have all the answers for you.

And we don't expect you to.

And I did offer that grant, and that was just because that was something I was aware of.

I understand that it's not going to solve all every problem, but it was something that I know is available at this moment.

Um, and the application process is actually pretty uh we we made it very accessible and very friendly to the public.

So it is not a normal grant application that is this thick and has a lot of lawyer speak.

Our application, I mean Ms.

Ortega was played a part in it, and it it's very well done.

So I think that's one you want to try, just again a quick one, but to answer your question for more, I don't have the answer.

That's something we'd have to talk to.

And again, I don't expect uh uh city council to have an answer today.

I I know this is something that you were caught unaware, you know, we were all caught unaware.

So what we want you to be is aware so that you can make a decision so that you can look, you know, because like I said, honestly.

In the last three weeks, nine shootings, two murders.

We don't we can't lose another child.

One child lost is one too many.

Okay.

Um well, thanks for raising awareness.

I and I think what we'll do is we'll try and bring this in front of some folks in the administration.

Um, Frank Kane is here, he's our managing director.

He could be a conduit to some of our other departments that maybe could play a part.

So um yeah, it's just you know, text me, update, just update me, tell me what I'm sorry I was in the restroom.

But you know, sure.

But if you're looking to raise awareness, mission completed, Frank is here and he uh has access to many of our departments.

Um go ahead go ahead.

Yeah, and I also want to just note that council person also has something she wants to know.

Um I'm curious.

I know you mentioned business is not the strong suit, and I can imagine running a 5013 C requires that support and that need.

I know our CED department kind of tools for business owners, and uh as much as it's a 5013, you almost have to operate like a business sometimes because you still have bills to pay, you still have stuff to do.

I I really emulate with your mission.

Having spent some time in Northeast Philly, I know what it means to get involved in the community and get some of these folks off the streets and and you know, focused on something greater uh than maybe what they imagine for themselves.

And I think I'm wondering, and I just bring this up now because maybe this is something we could talk to Vicky about.

But I I know she says that program gets underutilized, and I understand it's meant to be kind of like business incubator, but is there any do we have anything like that or similar to help 501c3s that are doing the work in Allentown leverage those folks to you know, kind of get that structure and and get allow them to grow as 501c3s because they're also benefiting our community.

Sure, if we don't, maybe we should, you know, we see this uh not just in the 501c3 area here, but in the world of housing, right?

We we we need to grow organizations more to take over, you know, to take over some of the some of the things that we need to have done, so for sure.

Yeah, I'm volunteering to do it for now.

Yeah, that's my strong thank you.

Thank you.

That's that's President Andrew and Brown on the five years.

No, thank you.

So I will connect you.

Thank you.

And uh if you want to um grab Frank's info before you leave, I think he would be beneficial.

Any other comments from my colleagues, uh Ms.

Girl.

Well, um uh council person Pongo said exactly uh what I wrote down.

I wrote down nonprofit systems issues, yeah.

Um, because this is not the only nonprofit that wants to do good work, is doing good work, and they've got the heart, they just don't have that business that's yeah.

And um, how many other nonprofits, if we could restructure our systems and what we're offering to then their help, the community, that is we just had a whole like our conversation about um you know policing and violence prevention and and crime and this is violence prevention.

So if we are truly wanting to reduce crime, this is part of the way we reduce crime.

So if we're if we're talking about restructuring an entire police system, perhaps we need to talk about restructuring other systems as well.

So thank you.

What is that we need to point?

Did I meet that?

Yeah, we all in this together.

It seems normal but informal.

This idea just came to mind.

What if we do something where we do an eight to ten week program where we offer that service to nonprofits where they can come in and learn systems, they can learn how to formulate a 501c3, build the systems and structures that will keep them operational and how to apply for grants, how to sustain the grants, how to build a financial system that could sustain the grants.

That's an idea.

You're hired, you want to run it?

I mean, I I do that on the side, but I I think that like what Ms.

Gerlock said, I think it is important.

And I built that system, I built that program because I noticed that I was getting calls from a lot of nonprofits asking to help them to build that's that infrastructure.

So I think it'll be something where maybe city council can come together and say, hey, this is a support that we're offering to nonprofits where we're doing this eight to ten week thing and they can learn it, and we're offering that for for them to help because everyone can't keep coming to city council and saying, hey, city council and cut us a check, and they can't sustain the check or be able to apply for more grants to be able to sustain their programs.

It's not gonna work.

Yeah.

And it also is fiscally responsible.

Because I mean the whole band situation, and then like you're like, what the heck?

I don't have this kind of insurance.

Like that's a waste of time and money, your time and money.

You get the kids hyped up, they think they're gonna get in the van, and next thing you know, no, no man.

Um, but then also I'm thinking, um I'm thinking in terms of um and our just the number of nonprofits, smaller nonprofits that are not connected, you know, and more and like when you think about small businesses, especially black and brown businesses, immigrant-led businesses, you don't have that access to capital, you're self-funding, you're borrowing from friends, and it I would imagine the same thing with a nonprofit.

You've got friends give you $50 to get a new glove or whatever, versus you've got other nonprofits that maybe are um uh of a different demographic um that has that access to like money and uh connections and networking, little you know, fancy places that people go to meet people with money.

It would be we could kind of help fill that gap.

And so if we're gonna do this, yeah, focus on specifically I mean, I always like to say grassroots ones that don't.

Like the grassroots, yeah.

Because that's what I had to I had to do the same thing that you just said, like as friends.

I emptied out my own 511c3 to start the nonprofit, but eventually you had to build a systems to be able to sustain what you're doing because that's what I'm seeing that's happening.

A lot of great programs that are out here now, they can't sustain themselves, they can't continue.

And then the kids are on the streets, and like past says, we're having shootings now every single week.

So one of the things that I literally came tonight to talk about that to see like what we can do together, because ceasefire will be here in a few weeks, conducting a July 15th to 16th to conduct a forum with us to talk about some of the things that we can do as a community to help the youth and stay off the streets and getting the nonprofits together, the councils together, everyone having these conversations because right now everything is happening in silo, but we don't know like what's the data, like how many kids are being supported in each program, like what's really happening.

We have no idea.

So I'm hoping that from this conversation, something bigger happens because there are a lot of nonprofits like this that are struggling.

I'm struggling and I'm I'm growing.

This year, a lot of funding got cut.

So we had to try to figure out like where are we getting money from for transportation?

Where and now kids won't be able to go on all the field trips that we normally go on.

But I'm vowing this year that wherever we get the money from the feed them, they're getting off the streets.

So they may not be able to go on the fancy field trips, but they're getting off the streets.

So what can we do to make sure like this nonprofit that has what 35 kids?

40, 15, 40, and their boys, boys.

We're seeing our young men perish every single week.

We have to do something.

We have to do something.

I also add that in July 14th, which is a Tuesday, we did put an application for uh the youth are putting together uh youth Tuesday takedown in Stephen Park.

It's led by youth, it's run by youth, it's from four to ten in Stephen Park.

Um, and uh the kids are saying we are not the issue, stop talking at us, but talk to us, ask us the questions.

Here are the kids saying, you want to know what we want, ask me.

You want to know what we're doing, ask.

Tell me what we're gonna do.

They're talking, but not to you.

But they're talking.

So if you want to listen, come to the park, come to the supermarket, to the car wash, to the boxing gym, they there.

Yeah, and I will send the information about the ceasefire to the council so you guys can be there in the take down as well.

Um, well, what I was gonna say is that um Pastor just send you the uh the the form uh for the grant, you know, uh for the city grant that we have.

I know that it's not much, but I mean, it's the beginning, you know.

It's the beginning.

Um I I think that uh I have always said that we have a disconnect.

There's many nonprofits here in the city, uh that they do a lot of wonderful work, but sad to say no one knows where they are they are, and sometimes they you know they don't communicate with other uh nonprofits.

So we have to change, we have to change that.

We have to change that mentality.

Um collaboration, I think that collaboration is the key.

And I just want to say thank you, uh Ms.

Andrine, you know, for stepping up.

Yeah, because I know that uh uh you know, uh in the beginning you did struggle with yours.

Um but I just keep adding more kids.

So the struggle just keeps increasing, but and yet you use you still step up to you know to help, so I commend you for that.

Um so I I think that that's a great thank you.

Yeah, no, thanks for raising the awareness and like I want to take the time to actually thank city council for uh allowing these kids to step up right now.

I saw them getting restless, you know, and you understanding that and taking the time for them to you know express themselves.

And he was gonna do it, he was gonna do it, but you just you guys just walk, you know, right away, but he was giving him a language differently.

He was going to give you the opportunity.

So that just shows the kind of kid that they are, that they got excited enough to go outside and wait the police chief.

Well, you know keep giving kids that are looking to be positive, more reasons and excuses to be positive.

You know, because you know, it starts with kids teaching kids, you know.

All of us are over 30, some of us a little over 30, right?

I feel younger.

And they need they need to hear it from someone that looks like them.

Hi.

Um my name is Ozzy Ventura.

Um, and I'm a student of Pope.

Um, I just want to say that like my cousin's friend, um, he got murdered like recently on through gun violence.

So I'm just I'm just um I'm just letting you know that it's real, you know.

Like this is somebody I experienced it.

And like Paul, like he's really a help in the community.

Like he's deterred many people and many children from the streets.

So that's all I want to say.

Thank you, thank you.

Speaker, um how you guys doing?

Uh wanna say uh I used to be a really hateful kid, angry kid.

And the first time when I came into the gym, you know, I was thought I was big and bad, wanted to fight everybody, but coach put me in in the ring with one of the guys.

And that's when you know, when I got roughed up, that's when I realized it's not all about the anger and and all about oh, I want to hit hard.

It was more of you gotta use your mind, you know.

And at home I was really angry all the time because of my parents, but coach teaching me like you gotta love your what the people you have around you.

You gotta take the time you have around like which people for granted because you know, people come and go, you never know.

You're here the next day you don't wake up, you know what I mean?

And coach really taught me about confidence, being brave, speaking up.

Like right now, uh speaking up.

I'm nervous, but my bad.

But you're doing it, you're doing it.

But uh yeah, he taught me a lot.

He really did.

And the times that he took me to fights, we would talk together, it would be just me and him.

And bro, we we've been in the ground uh over there in A Street Bridge.

We had no heat, we had no AC, no, no, nothing.

You know, we struggled to get to sparrings in Philly, New Jersey, you know, we had to take our own cars, and sometimes we didn't have guests, but those times that I've been with Coach, you know, he's like family, all these guys are families.

I mean, so seeing us him like you know, struggling with struggling with what we're trying to get up to the youth.

If he goes down, we go down, you know what I mean?

And the youth goes down.

Who's gonna be out there trying to help them get off the street, be confident young men, young ladies, you know, become future lawyers councilman, you know what I mean?

So thank you for taking awareness to seeing what's happening to us and taking your time to listen to us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for the story.

Um thank you guys again.

Uh Karen told me a lot about you.

Thank you, brother.

And uh we'll be in touch.

I mean including uh Frank.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I used to I used to work with Karen.

She was wonderful person okay.

Um to my colleagues, thank you for just pausing on that and getting that um getting them in to tell their story.

I appreciate that.

I know it's not uh normal.

Um so Frank, um I know you can you pick up where you left off.

I'd like to put a pin in in that discussion.

I hold on with the point real question.

I I think, and I'm just from the presentation, and I'm just asking in this uh given also the timing.

Like, I'm I'm happy to read this, digest it, and then come back if we want.

I mean, I'm I'm not sure what everyone else wants to do.

We we just got this.

I was gonna suggest.

Yeah, so I mean, if there's something I mean, I'm I'm totally it's it's your things, but I'm just kind of thinking it might be good to I was gonna suggest if I can just say two things first to put a pin in in that discussion.

I think I think council person pung had a great idea.

Why don't we uh uh a mentorship opportunity for 501c3s tomorrow?

We have the the strategic plan meeting that we're gonna have.

I could fit nicely in there.

We're gonna ask for some funding or that.

So I'm gonna include that.

We have we have a program called Spark that's that's done under CED that's for small businesses.

So it's it's similar.

It's not the same, but I'm saying like it's the same thought process of how do you help 501c3s or having the same struggles as a small business in the city, like they have the same issues.

So I'm you know, it's already being done, but just in a different way.

I think to to council person girlak's comment on this.

We're talking about public safety today.

That that is that's an aspect of public safety.

I mean, that's that is providing people something to do, something to mentorship and that kind of stuff.

I mean, that's it, it's an incredibly important thing.

So I think trying to put effort and energy towards that.

You know, I know I know it always comes down to like actually getting it across the finish line.

So it's it can feel good now and we want to see it, but I'm I'm encouraged to see, you know, if we're doing something that's gonna like focus on getting people in just a nonprofit space, especially if it's a you know very specifically focused on programs like this.

It would be great to see that's we'll we can talk more about it.

I but I I agree, and we're gonna look to try to try to do something in that space.

To move on to your uh to your suggestion.

Yeah, I mean, this what I was gonna suggest is I think it's time if if council digests these, you know, these are suggestions that came from you from the commission on homelessness from street medicine from from other advocates.

If you take some time to to that to digest these things, maybe it's time that we we we do a meeting with the administration where I bring in the the you know the our solicitor and and maybe yours, and we we go through, you know, and we actually hash out a final policy that we can codify, and that probably doesn't have to be a public meeting.

That could probably be two members of council and you know, and the and a few representatives from the administration.

I feel like we're near that point.

Uh I think that's what you were gonna suggest, uh, Councilperson Bender.

Yes, and um, I heard you use um the phrase codify.

So we are looking to uh take this policy in its uh final version and make it into an ordinance.

This the administration is looking to do that.

I appreciate you.

I know that I committed to do it on June 1st or May 31st.

Uh I you know working with me till now.

But the mayor agreed.

Uh we have to obviously have a policy to codify that you know our police chief is okay with and our fire chief and so forth, but they're they're not unreasonable.

They're there.

There are a couple, there are a couple.

I'll just you know, we were almost I'll just give you the other the other big one.

Uh the storage of of personal items is like a real challenge, and we struggle to find a way that we can implement it in a good way.

That's gonna be one of the sticking points for for you know, for for the administration was very difficult to figure out a way to give to hold somebody's items and then determine who should get those items, and then the liability if we give personal items to a different person and all the things that could all the things that that's we're gonna have to beat it up now, but that's one of the sticking points that the administration has.

Go ahead, Mr.

Pongo.

So just I thought it'd probably be worth noting, like in preparation to that session, meeting, whatever it ends up being.

I I think it'd be helpful for those of us who are like this.

I know we just got this, we're gonna look through it.

It sounds like there's already some stuff that wants to be redlined, or just some degree.

This is this is our policy with the addition of all the comment from all the advocacy groups from city council from from from others.

If I missed something, tell me we'll add it.

Uh and then you'll get this is kind of like the if this were the house and said it would be concurrence, right?

Because the this is the administration saying we we we can't live with this language and that language, and then we bring it back to where it originated to concur.

Does that make sense?

I I get that, and I think it'd just be helpful for folks like if if the expectation is okay, this is it, and let's say you know five people are are all in agreement of this, and then we get to that session, it's like, well, but we're gonna remove this and we're gonna remove that, then it it kind of changes it.

So I think it'd be helpful to understand at least what some of those positions are.

I'll give you a full list of the administration's actions in a timely manner, not two hours before a meeting before with time to digest it before we schedule.

So this is not the administration's policy.

This is the administration's policy with the additions of what you uh and other members of council and what what the commission on homelessness asked for.

So this is this is the everything.

And if I've missed something, tell me and we'll add it.

Okay, so then you and the mayor and whomever else in the administration got together, put something together, and then consulted with some folks, and then they added their comments and suggestions, then you added those comments and suggestions into this, but this has not been ran by the mayor yet.

It has well, not by the mayor, but uh it's been run by our by, you know, when it gets to the mayor, hopefully all the people that have had to opine have opined that he'll be okay with the work that his administration has done to just agree, you know.

The people that need to opine this are a solicitor or or our chief of police, and they have.

Could we have them opine it first before we die like dissect this?

Because if not, we're listening, or could could they opine this and then um I like that term so that what we have is what we will actually actually you know dissect.

I want to look, I mean it's a it's a it's a negotiation, right?

It's a it's a process of of everybody weighing in on this document.

I just made it up, I think it's a word opinion.

I'm gonna miss it.

But but you know, yeah, you should have this which we consider the the everything the everything document, and then we'll say like I've started to go down the road of grants past and why our solicitor thinks that that's problematic.

So we should we should discuss those things on of what all the objections are, you know, and then and then at that point, you know, by one day next week maybe we can we can meet and finalize it.

So go ahead.

I just um so then is the intent that on June 24th at that CED meeting, that this will be in a more uh in-depth uh a more in-depth conversation, or when will this when when is the intent for this to come back actually like after it's been opined and all that?

It's catching on past tense.

It's catching on.

I don't know if you can do that one.

It's been opined.

I made it up, you can make it up too.

Let the record reflect council person, we'll use that for the next two weeks.

Broker likes behoove, I like opine.

But listen, you know, my hope is that we come away with a policy that everybody feels great about.

You I get that you always want to put timelines on things I understand, I respect it.

What I want to do is get you guys this list with the list of our objections and schedule a meeting next week to sit down with at least our solicitor and maybe the police chief or or other people who who who have a strong voice in how this is gonna be crafted, and hope that we come away with that policy.

I hope we come away from that one or two meetings with a final draft that that the mayor can feel good about signing off on, and then we can codify.

Okay.

Um and if it's at that CED meeting, great.

Um go ahead, Mr.

Bender.

I think, and I I can't speak for everyone else here, but what would be helpful, and I thought that's what this paper was, is the if this is something that the administration, if what we get to before we start kind of going back and forth, if we just said like if this was implemented today, this is acceptable.

I guess what I'm saying is like for us to get something and say, okay, like the I I don't know if I'm a negotiation, like what we're asking is what's what is the acceptable thing from the administration and all of the the systems.

I thought the easiest way to do that, maybe I maybe maybe it was confusing and it wasn't.

I thought the easiest way to do that would be to present you with this document and go through our objections, which I can do in writing.

I you already have this document.

This document includes language from the commission on homelessness from from a number of number of members of city council from street medicine, other other advocates, and some people in the administration feel that some of this uh they're not able to live by by what it what it requires.

So I'd like to give you this and give you our list of objections.

If you'd like it, and if you just like us to cut out what we don't like and give you a policy, we can do that too.

I mean, whatever the whatever the structure that's easiest for you is.

I thought it would be this.

I I guess if you're gonna red line the things that like sorry, so I first of all I want to just stop off and say like I appreciate the effort that you put into this because I mean I think that was a that that was a went a long way to say you met with all of the different entities to compile this.

So I just want to take the moment to say like that means a lot.

Um thanks.

And I think the if I I think it's just me understand trying to understand this properly, but if it's the kind of thing where I think for us to start going back and forth, I'm fine, I personally find if you just if you're redlining the things that are our concerns or area concerns, and maybe that would just be helpful.

I just it's hard for me to know how what what do I talk about because I don't know if this is acceptable or not acceptable.

So, like what's really only a couple things.

It's it's the it's the language of us not offering not ever moving anyone to whom we have not offered an alternate.

Of course, we're gonna try to offer an al an alternate plan, but but to kind of to put that language in here was problematic to our solicitor.

We can talk about the details, but that's like number one.

Number two is the removal of personal items and us the city being responsible for storing personal items, and there's a lot of things we can talk about in that area, but it's problematic for mostly the reason that we can't be sure who we're returning those items to.

Uh and you know, people have been sued and there have been problems.

I mean, there'd been there's been identity theft.

You think you're given the ID to one person and it's a different man, you know, uh ostensibly could they could open a bank account or something in in that person's name.

It's uh you know, the time periods we have a little a little internal discussion about, but I think broadly we were we we were okay with the the extended time periods of 30 days prior to of high risk and uh I think there's 90 days in here somewhere else too.

Sorry, if I may interject, I think it just sounds like we should probably just write these down.

Okay, and just well, I mean, if I'm being completely honest, yeah, I agree.

I think so.

It sounds like we're gonna wait for you to give us a red line version, right?

Is that what I heard?

Which makes sense.

And then once we receive that red line version, then all of us can make we can start to have that conversation of where we want to go and what's that's something.

And this overall, this has been ran through the city solicitor.

It has because that was the main criticism of the ordinance I introduced is a the city they said that the city solicitor had it and then we it opens up the lawsuits and blah blah blah blah.

Has this been through that process?

The so the city solicitor, I wouldn't say he did a full remote, he looked like an LSR because mine had an LSR on.

We can do an LS.

So I don't think before you do an LSR.

I mean, he he looked at it and he identified pro of course it'll be fully vetted, and we will you know we will codify something that everyone feels good about.

Uh you know, I I don't have to ask for an LSR's office is next door, I just give it to him.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it just makes sense because if the main I all we ever hear about oh, we could get sued, we could get sued, we could get sued.

Let's make sure we're not gonna get sued.

I hope that we can have a more collaborative approach to this and many things.

I'd also draw your attention to you have the posting.

This is our proposed posting.

Yeah, have thoughts on it.

And this is the assess the risk assessment rubric that that accompanies it.

I was gonna comment on that.

I think of all of this.

I think there's already been a lot of work on the the policies, and I think it's great to put it together again.

We'd appreciate the red line.

I think the rubric is probably the biggest takeaway from this.

It gives us something like, okay, what is this scoring mechanism?

What is the structure for this?

It starts the conversation of like, okay what what might be the things that come up as part of this rubric that are subjective or could be you know different to certain people.

So that kind of starts that conversation and gives us a framework for that, and I think that's great.

I have to say, when you when you look at it and everybody's an open mind, you know, it's funny how people have similar thoughts.

That rubric came from council person Girlack, and people in our administration had a similar idea, they just said it a different way, and it was well received, you know.

Okay, well, it's good, it goes back to process, which is good.

Yeah, um okay.

So I think we know we're all on the same page where we stand.

I'm at this point, we're waiting on you, Mr.

Kane to uh get us the red line version so we can move to next steps.

Okay.

Um any other comments regarding this?

All right, thanks everyone.

I appreciate it.

We're gonna adjourn this meeting.

You have public comment.

Oh, um what I'm sorry, you know what?

I'm sorry, um any public comment regarding encampment.

Um thank you, and uh we're gonna adjourn this meeting.

Thank you.