At 641 p.m.

on April uh the second we've made it to April.

Uh so I'm gonna have first our roll call.

Uh is Alderman uh Brooks Shannemeyer present.

Present awesome, thank you.

Alderman uh Frank Thorpe.

Present.

Okay.

Uh moving forward along.

Uh is there a motion to approve of the agenda?

So move.

Okay, second.

All in favor.

Thank you.

All right.

Great.

We'll move on to uh the approval of the minutes from our March 5th, 2026 meeting.

Is there a motion for that?

So move.

Okay, thank you.

A second, please.

Second.

Awesome.

Um in favor of this motion to approve the minutes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you for um supporting us on this, Caitlin, and getting um some guests to join us today as we speak on uh the legislation 0126, the property tax child care centers, family child care homes, and large family child care homes.

Uh the first that we have on the agenda, which was ID 6626, was daycare providers in the city of Annapolis.

Um are there any daycare providers who have joined us today?

Uh if you can either raise your hand or speak up.

Um, we'd love to hear your voice to support um us in helping to get more information from you.

If you know anything about this uh tax credit, if you want to just uh share how the city has supported you along the way, anything that you'd like to present to us today.

Okay.

I don't hear anyone here who may be joining us.

I know I see some names on here.

Aaron Lee, iPhone 2 is Aaron Lee.

Diego, are you one of them?

See a thumbs up.

Kayla, do you happen to know Aaron Lee?

He can unmute Diego if you would like to speak, then he can unmute and okay, Diego.

Will you please share where you're from, who you are, um anything if you're available to do so?

First and last name, Diego, iPhone.

Okay.

Aaron, yes, Aaron, if you will you do you mind sharing who you are, first and last name, where you're from, who you're representing.

Sure thing.

So good good evening, everyone.

I'm Aaron Lee.

I'm the social work care coordinator with the city of Annapolis, Office of Community Services.

So I was just listening in.

Um, I guess you said I do represent the um the Office of Community Services with my supervisor Aisha Young.

We were just sitting here on the meeting to uh learn more about the tax credit.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um is Diego one of the daycare providers in Annapolis.

Hello, this is Diego.

Hey Diego.

Yeah, I'm so sorry.

I was just trying to unmute and it just didn't work, and they just kicked me out of the meeting.

I'm really sorry.

Um yes, so we're in the process of opening a chalker center uh at 301 Rao Boulevard next to the district court, and um, so so far the city has been great to us.

Uh it's been so far seven months process, and we went through the zoning and to the youth and occupancy.

Everyone was fantastic, uh, opposite to what we heard previously to in our process rolling, but so far it's been great.

And just just being grateful to be honest, just being a little redundant, but but the process was very great.

Uh so we're still in the process to getting our license um to uh with the office for child care, and but the per the facility was previously approved for 84 children, so that's what we aiming for at this moment.

Okay, well, thank you for joining us today and just providing a service for our families and our children.

Um, yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Can Diego say his um first and last name and his address, please.

It's Diego Medina and the addresses 30 Rao Boulevard, Annapolis, Maryland, to 1401.

Thank you.

You're very welcome, thank you.

Now, do you know anything about this uh legislation that's being brought forth?

Uh Diego.

Not at the moment.

I will definitely look into it.

Um, but not at the moment.

Okay.

Uh well, I won't speak um on behalf of it.

I think it'd be yes, please, Alderman Brooks, Shannon, if you can share.

Thank you.

Uh Diego, thank you for joining us this evening.

Uh so 301 Rao Volabar, that is the are you in the Cavalry United Methodist Church building?

Correct.

That's the building.

Yes, we're we're leasing from them.

We're at the bottom level now, and so we're doing a lot of renovation at the moment.

Okay.

Um so this legislation may not end up being helpful to you because you're gonna be based out of a church, uh religious building which doesn't pay property tax.

Correct, that's good.

Um you did benefit from our loosening of the zoning code around daycare centers uh during our last term though.

So I am glad that that is already seeing the creation of new daycare centers.

So I appreciate you coming in.

Absolutely, yes.

Thank you very much.

And again, you know, everyone's been so uh so welcoming to us, and so it's it's great to hear, you know.

Yeah, what is the name of your daycare center, Diego?

What is it gonna be?

Little One's Child Care Center.

So it's actually our third location.

We've been operating from Crofton, Maryland, and one location also in Odington, and this will be our first in Annapolis.

And just for the record, I'm the one to put everything together, but I do hire my principal and teachers aides.

Uh, but so far, yeah, it's been it's been great again.

Yeah.

Well, are your other locations in uh their own?

I know it's not in the city of Annapolis, but do you have your own buildings?

Are you also uh we have one farm that we operate and then just one residential property?

We do own them.

Yeah, okay.

But this is the first commercial building, yeah.

Did you want to say something?

Yeah, oh, I still have my hand up, but uh that was not intentional.

But um the county is also introducing their own version of this pretty shortly, so uh county properties are going to be eligible for something similar coming up.

Okay.

Which is okay, good to know.

Um, I guess something I would like to know is what have been some of the I appreciate knowing that the city's been useful in trying to help you out, streamline things, but what have been some of like the barriers that have come up that have slowed things down at the city level?

I know things that the state sets forward like licensure and uh staffing ratios, those are what the state sets.

We can't stuff uh do anything about it.

But what have been some things that the cities put forward that have made things a little less than efficient, if you can think of anything?

Um again, me and no, not at the moment.

Um honestly, not at the moment.

It's been it was it was great.

Um yes.

What what led you to do child care?

So the family's been in the business for 15 years.

I was a school teacher for five years at Southgate Elementary, Spanish teacher.

Uh teaching is being you know something that's been in the family.

Uh after teaching, um, I'm actually in commercial risk state.

That's my career that I do uh every day.

Um, but it's been part of the family, to be honest, and there is a need for it.

And all the families, they've been great to us, and our program is is a Spanish immersion program, and we do a lot enjoy them.

And again, as a school teacher, I still have like one of the most beautiful memories teaching.

Uh the only reason I stopped doing it is because the money is not that great.

Okay.

You know that unfortunately, but uh, but being a business owner, you know, it's completely different.

It allows you to provide a service and help others and help yourself at the same time.

And as an immigrant, this is the way to go.

And yeah, thank you, Diego.

Um if there's any if you know you have any questions or thoughts or anything you want to share with us, please feel free to reach out.

Um, it sounds like you've had one of the uh more blessed processes of being able to get through it without having much issue.

Um and it seems like you do have a history here anyway, so um, it's good to hear that uh the city hasn't made it more difficult or more difficult than what the county has offered, because I know that we oftentimes get compared to uh the county uh in that front.

But yes, please, Alderman Shannon.

Yeah, I got one more.

Um did you have to so where you're currently opening your child care center, uh, which is by city code in a very layman's term, basically picture a larger public daycare facility versus operating at someone's house, which is child care home.

Um it's in an area zone R2, residential.

Uh, did you have to go through uh any special exception process or board of appeals process to get into that uh to open that up?

Is that a question?

Or for me, yeah.

No, no, no.

I'm sorry, it's just my my system is kicking me out.

But no, I did not.

Um at the beginning, we thought we have to go through that process, but we kind of grandfather everything since the building uh since the location has been uh uh a baker and a small uh child care center for many years, of course, under the religious organizations, uh uh under them basically, but the facility was approved for that, so I did not have to go through.

I again um but I I'm going through the process of the licensing, which is different for what the religious organization had to go through.

That's the state is nothing we can do on that front, but I am glad to hear that because the building previously being uh licensed for that, you were able to just slide through without going through that process.

Thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Thank you very much.

Well, yes, Eldon Thor.

Just make sure you sorry with that.

Uh sorry about that.

Uh so dear, thank you very much for coming on to the call.

Um the one the thing that we are working through is whether to provide tax credits for uh property taxes and um uh for child care centers, and uh it's helpful that you have two other ones because my question for you would be uh a very hypothetical uh question.

Um uh and to put you on the spot a little bit, but um if you were to be offered a tax credit for the other two facilities, if you were to do improvements and a tax credit to the tune of four thousand dollars, um is that something you would pursue?

Um what level of effort would you be willing to go to to do that, and how would that impact your business?

Um what would you do with that four thousand dollars of property tax you didn't have to pay?

Oh, definitely the that that will that will definitely help.

Um I would say that basically for improvement, uh, you know, the the rundown for the properties with a lot of children in it definitely, you know, take a toll on it, and it will definitely help for sure.

Um and I my my biggest issue, for instance, we were attending at a meeting last night, and everything, all the help, there is a lot of help, a lot of help in millions of dollar Maryland um put towards education, but a lot of the help is for parents, but not for operators.

See, so we face a lot big barriers, paying but not only taxes, but you know, rent and work we have to have like a huge amount of working capital for to pay for employees, and the answer year for employees is huge.

And so the money is there, but I I would like to see more redirected to the operators or the business owners, a little bit more help.

And I know there are programs, but those programs are destined basically when you were being already operating for six or one year, uh like the small business loans and stuff like that, but a little bit more help for the provider for the therapy, is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, that's that's very helpful.

And I think that's the information that I think we're seeking.

Um, you know, the the obvious intent for the city council to do this here in Annapolis would be either to entice more people to get into the business that as you're doing because it would be more affordable.

Um, four thousand dollars, or that you could make those improvements that uh children, which actually you might hear children in the background on my phone call.

Um you too.

I'm I'm actually going to a church the therapy.

Last operating.

I'm happy to be here.

Yeah.

So it so it it it does it seems to me that that you're affirming Alderman Chandelmeyer's point about um no matter how this is used, um it would allow you to improve your business or or reduce your rates or be profitable such that uh entice more people to do it.

Um I'm not asking you to just choose one of those three, but is that a is that an overall safe assumption?

It is, it is that's correct.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, Diego, for that information.

You're welcome.

Uh it's and we just appreciate you being uh one of those service providers or you know, coming to the city and finding a need to to support our families and children.

Um thank you so much today.

Yeah, we'll be here and um we look forward to hearing how everything unfolds as you uh finalize the opening of your business, and if you have an opening you'd like for us to join, please feel free to send us an invite.

Okay, perfect.

I would love to thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Yes, have a blessed holiday.

Okay, you don't have to stay on, but you're more welcome to.

I know you're ready to go to church, so appreciate it.

Thank you again.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Diego.

Thank you.

Thank you for real cool stuff.

Thank you.

Um, so what that sounds like is I believe that's the only one we had today.

Uh it's good to even have one voice uh share with us.

Um, who else is up on here?

Who else?

Who else is here?

Want to take your camera off?

Hello.

Hi, this is Jenny Smith.

Oh, hey.

Thank you.

Hi.

So my name is Janet Smith, and I'm in the city of Annapolis, and I have Little Lions of Judah.

Okay, thank you.

I'm family daycare.

Okay.

Starts off with little line.

Okay, we have a lot of littles that are these days.

Okay, little lines of Judah.

But do you mind now that you've heard Diego?

Um, and because you are is this your only uh child care that you have in Annapolis?

Is that the only place you have?

So I'm opening up one in Severn, but it's a bit of a little lines of Judah, yes.

The first one isn't Annapolis, and it's a family.

Okay.

Um now do you mind just giving us a little bit of background about you know what got you into this and whether you feel too that you would benefit or what you see a benefit, such as a four thousand dollar uh child care tax credit toward uh renovations to your property would mean for you.

Okay, so our rent from a landlord um who allowed me to run it as a you know a family daycare.

Um I got into this, you know, being a first-time mom and not wanting to send my time into daycare.

I wanted to stay home, and so it was just like okay, what could I do as a mom where I could make money and still provide my child?

Um, and so I threw out a ad years ago, that's when Craigslist was a thing, and I thought it ad and I've been both been busy ever since.

Oh yeah.

Um, I think that $4,000 will always help in child care because that's where most of our money goes to.

You know, our child care businesses is like our babies.

You go into the sofa yourself and then you you you're looking around your shopping and you have a cart full of baby stuff.

Well, you know, your child stuff.

Well, that's exactly how day it is.

It's the baby, you know, it's it's your baby.

You go in there to buy some things for yourself in Walmart, and then you look at the car, and it's like everything is daycare related.

You know, so four thousand dollars will always help us um to purchase more items for the children, you know, to help them grow and develop.

How many employees do you have if you don't mind sharing with us that information?

So well, with the Annapolis location, I just hired my first employee.

Um April the 8th, and then um, because I have to get out and go to the next location now.

And so um I plan on hiring about three three or four workers for the next location.

Okay.

So this technically would not apply to um the daycare that has less than I believe 25 um employees, you have to have at least 25 employees.

So I take it it says the business has at least 25 employees.

Is that still the case, Alderman Shenmore?

The 25 employees is a business that is not child care in nature wants to offer child care as a benefit.

So hypothetically, if Watermark wanted to offer child care as an employee benefit, businesses there we go.

Okay, right.

That's under two for tax credit for business.

Okay, so that's awesome.

Um and so you because she doesn't own the property, she rents the property.

Um I think that was the piece I was gonna get at h how would that apply for her?

Uh do you happen to know?

Um how that would be a good idea.

Legislation as written uh applies only to the crowd care providers who own the property.

Um would that would the owner possibly be able to apply on her behalf?

You know, like what would they be able to go about it that way?

That was my understanding, but uh I can ask Ms.

Reuter for clarification if we know that.

Okay.

And if not, maybe that's something we if you all would be comfortable, maybe that's something we offer or think about opening up for sp especially someone like this who um is new to this, but you know, she she seems enthusiastic.

I don't want to, you know, label what you feel, but you seem to be really um willing to help out in the community and you're already expanding to other places.

Um was there anything that else that you'd like to share with us, maybe some input for how thus far you have been operating, how long have you been operating for?

I've been operating currently for four years now.

Okay, and so the thing is to find a look different locations, like a lot of us want to expand the problem that we're having is finding different locations, and then you know, once we find those different locations, we have to go up against the office of child care, which makes it difficult at times for us because you're gonna tell they only want us to have one location.

I want you to have several.

Um, thank you, uh Janice, uh, for coming today and sharing with us your a little bit of your background and um information on how you feel that this would benefit you as well.

Um it's good to hear that this would be beneficial to the the people who are providing the service.

Um, and um just hypothetically, I know you talked about this, Alderman Thorpe, just hypothetically uh speaking, if you were to get this four thousand dollars in a renovation cost, uh, how do you feel that this could impact the families and the children?

Um, and what would you think using you would use that towards for renovations?

I would use it towards like curriculum.

Um, so you know, like help them grow, the summer is coming in.

We could go on like different field trips, put insert material um that could help them.

And so just you know, learning them learn like helping them grow, so just keeping the material fresh.

Children love price material because once the material is not fresh, they get bored, and when they get bored, that's when you have to see different behaviors come out.

But if you're constantly, you know, changing out the material because you have enough money to do so, then it keeps them engaged and keeps them learning.

Okay, so this uh legislation is seems to strictly be about um to real property improvements made exclusively for the child care facility.

So uh Alderman Shannon, how could we meet her needs uh based off what that is this is saying here?

Like would that apply for that?

I was in the initial drafting of the legislation, which was based on what the state allows us to do, um that kind of ties our hands is what is the state actually allowing us to do.

Right.

Um that's where that came from in conversations, it had said that improvement at a very loose definition, but reading our definition here, um it does seem like it's specifically applied only to actual modifications.

So I would like to have that removed if the state would allow us.

Okay.

That may give us a little leeway for her to be able to on page two lines 11 through or I'm sorry, page two of lines 15 through 17.

Right, yes, thank you.

Yes, we're looking at it right there.

Um, and because this is I think a case where we would love to support though based, you know, maybe just looking at how we can update the legislation to allow for um you to get that support because you don't own the property um per se, and and you also uh would like to invest in more of the hands-on materials for this for the students or the kids, and um I can completely concur with that.

They definitely just like all of us, we like new, you know, we like to be, but I think children especially we want to make sure that they have something that's fresh in hand, um, and uh they can stay interested and engaged, Alderman Thorpe.

Yeah, make sure you uh you can hear you at the work.

I mean sorry about that.

Um Alderman Shandemar, I'd like to bounce something off of you in answer to that question, just from a business sense, it would make sense to me that if a child care center, you know, owner occupied what whatever it meant, what that criteria was meant.

If they were to make improvements, you know, as the previous individual said that you've always got to make improvements because you got children running around banging things up and breaking them and and you want to improve it.

Um the four thousand dollar tax credit that they would get, i.e.

paying four thousand dollars less, there's no limitation on what they use that money for.

They just have to justify to line 15 there that the improvement to the child care center was in fact an addition or modification of real property, et cetera, et cetera, that they spent that money on that, but the tax credit, the money that they could they're then four thousand dollars up because of this tax credit, they could spend that on curriculum or whatever they would want to spend it on.

There's no limitation.

Once you I mean, it's it's just the justification for the tax credit uh, Mr.

Chairman, that is my understanding that would help them out, but then how how what they do with that benefit is unlimited by the legislation.

Is that right, Mr.

uh Alderman Chandelmeyer?

Yeah, what you spend the money on is what you spend the money on.

There is no eyes or limits to that.

It's just how do you get that qualification?

Right.

Was okay, so look me, you know, think of a scenario where this plays out then.

So um you're saying you remodel your kitchen or renovated the kitchen because you want to be able to make more meals for your children.

Um that was two thousand dollars.

Uh, and so I spend the two thousand dollars and I apply for the tax credit, and I will get the two thousand dollars back.

You would get a two thousand dollars.

Property tax bill.

So if your property tax bill was hypothetically uh if your property tax bill for the child care facility was two thousand dollars, you would not pay property tax.

Right.

Uh okay, so it's it's like an exchange.

It's so uh Alderman Thorpe, when you mentioned something about um on top of an addition, it's like a reimbursement though, right?

Is is that what this is?

It's not a reimbursement, but it's it's to I think to Diego's point, it child care centers have a cost of doing business that it would make sense to me as to they that they need to improve their real property.

So to your example, they improve the kitchen facilities so they could provide food to the children.

Most of most of them, I would would presume, and I would defer to Alderman Shandemar on this, but they've got two thousand dollars, four thousand dollars of real property improvements that they've got to make on a routine basis, um, that they're probably already spending.

This is helping the business of the business, or it might get them over the edge to be able to do that one or the other, and I don't it it doesn't factor into me what they do, uh, which which becomes more key there.

But then when they get their their property tax bill or they're paying their property tax, it's up to four thousand dollars less.

And so it makes that improvement basically up to four thousand dollars free.

Free.

Um then to my point with with Diego is that four thousand dollars can either then go to the profits of the child care center, which would make it more appealable to be a to be open more child care centers, or it could be lowering the the cost of child care, or it could be making some other improvement as as I think um uh Miss Smith made, which is you know, that gives them gives her a couple thousand dollars to do curriculum improvement.

That's how that's how the money gets to curriculum improvement is she's not spending it on the capital improvement that she has to make because she's fixing up holes in the wall, or you know, putting it some new doors or a new kitchen appliance or whatever.

Did I get that right, Alderman Shandelmeyer?

Yeah.

And essentially, like how the tax credit works is um, you know, I don't know if you have student loans.

Uh so when you do your annual income tax form, let's say hypothetically you owed uh thousand dollars to the government, but your student loan tax credit is five hundred dollars, you now owe the government five hundred dollars in income tax because of that tax credit.

So that's how these credits work.

It's just instead of income, it's property.

And so you don't have to necessarily so okay.

So I'm just because when I'm hearing it, it sounds like I have to spin in order to get back.

And technically, and so when you spin in order to get back, I don't I I don't see how that's necessarily a credit.

You know, I'm just trying to figure out how that's a credit.

If I have to spin up to the $4,000, I can still get the $4,000 deducted off of my bill bills.

But technically, it's like an a reimbursement.

It's improvements that you're usually already making, uh repairs to the property, uh changes or adaptations to the property.

So you're gonna be making these expenses anyway.

Anyway, uh to cancel it out.

Yeah, and so instead of like hypothetically, if I were to have a four thousand dollars in expenses to maintain the property, along with a four thousand dollar property tax bill, that would be eight thousand dollars total for the business to have to pay.

But with this, I now only have with this tax credit, the child care uh property would only have to pay that four thousand dollars in the payments, which they kind of always have to do, but they wouldn't owe us that four thousand dollars in property tax.

Yes, that sounds great.

Yeah, that that that makes sense.

Um just like you know, just I know we're not forced to pay a phone bill, but let's say we're paying our phone bill every month, and next month we get a phone bill credit.

I have to pay it anyways, but because I'm gonna this credit, um, I'm I'm technically saving uh the amount that I would have had to pay for that month.

That's pretty much what you're saying.

Okay.

Um, thank you, Ms.

Smith, uh, for that um information that you shared with us.

Uh, we have to figure out a way to still be able to support you, although you may not own that property.

Um, because it's definitely childcare services that you're providing from the grassroots level, or you know, just fresh off the ground, uh, that we also I think want to prioritize um as well.

So if there's any questions that you have or thoughts or anything you want to share with us, please feel free to.

If you would you know, also want to invite us to any of your events.

Um which which w where in Annapolis did you say little lines of Judah is?

It's right off if I'm on Bell Drive, so it's right behind Safeway.

So my so my ward, thank you very much uh for service for service to Ward 3 in the city of Annapolis.

Um so yes, if you have anything you'd like me to join or any of us, please share with us.

I'd love to come by and support, however, you know I'm an educator.

You may not know, but I am an educator, so um, if you ever need support there, let me know.

Okay, I will um need some support.

Um open it.

I don't know.

Do you guys only support in Annapolis or do you got support outside of Annapolis?

This would only apply to the city of Annapolis properties, but the county is introducing similar legislation that would be able to help your uh Saverna Pro Park property you said you were opening.

Yeah, they're covering or seven, I'm sorry.

Uh so the county is introducing similar legislation uh very soon that will be able to cover you at least at the county level uh for your severn property.

Okay.

And your landlord, your landlord is supportive.

Uh I take it your landlord is supportive of this.

So um do they have any hand or you know, any um are they giving you any uh like advices at all for this process, or you just rent from them?

Because I'm trying to figure out a way to still be able to offer this credit to someone like you or a business like yours, although you may not own the property, so just like trying to iron that out.

Yeah, they don't have a hand in anything, they just sign a paper state and that is on if I use their home after daycare, and then that's there, and I do everything on my own.

Okay.

Um I'm trying to think that would then the question would be is would the four thousand dollars benefit someone like Miss Janice Smith, or would it benefit the the owner of the property?

Um, and how would that benefit from the owner of the property?

Let's not use the the words trickle down, but you know, how would that get to her?

I mean, we can get into that when we discuss the legislation larger.

Yeah, this is hypothetical.

Yeah, this is just for us to think about.

Yeah, so okay, uh Janice.

Uh, you have a blessed uh one as well, holiday and all.

Um, and we look forward to to see how everything unfolds for you too.

Um, thank you guys so much.

Yes, thanks for joining us today.

Let's see how to do that.

Thank you, okay.

See ya.

Um so is that everyone, Caitlin, before we move forward.

I'm so I'm just I love the fact that we had a couple people join us today, and I think that was extremely helpful in this conversation.

That's everybody.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

For our other I piece.

Okay, well, let's skip on ahead.

Uh, we did do we did our due diligence in reaching out to someone at the state uh level, um, a couple of people actually, uh, whether it was um I know we had I spoke with someone today uh who was not able to he did share that um he had reached out but uh was not able to get someone to join us today.

So we're just gonna move forward, you know.

I don't think that we can we're not gonna hold this up uh just because of that.

Um and maybe they could provide us some information.

Uh we appreciate uh councilwoman Lisa Robin as well for following up and sharing, although she wasn't able to join us today for other uh personal reasons.

Um she uh did say share that she'd be more than willing to come out and uh give us any overview of how uh she's working on this.

I know Alderman Sherman mentioned um the the council is also working with this at the county level.

And so since she's the sponsor of it, uh she said she'd be more than willing to and open to share with us any information we need now that we're um most likely to have an action on this tonight.

Um maybe she can share it at our next meeting at the city council meeting when this is on the agenda, uh, but we could go talk about that a little later.

Um and so if we do hear back from someone from the state, maybe we could ask them to do the same.

Um, but uh is someone I know we we have someone, the children and family success grant ID 6526 uh here with us today, Director Young and um Aaron, Miss Lee.

Hello.

Hey, good to see you all again.

Um yeah, so based off everything you heard, uh first off, thank you for the work you're doing in our city uh for our residents.

Um, and I know you're here to kind of just give us maybe a little overview of what you all do through the children and family success grant and how um you believe that this would this additional legislation uh would benefit our families and children just from your perspective of uh what we can do to support them a little further.

Yeah, so just a little background on the child and family success grant.

Um, from my understanding coming on, I've only been here two years just to give uh some background um about that.

But it it is a program to help enhance um children activities or program after school programs, summer camps specifically um during the summer and fall months, um, ideally programs that offer activities outside of the normal scope of like nine to five, so specifically like two to seven is what um prior alderman gay was looking for uh when it came to that grant.

Um not specifically child care.

Um it doesn't really say that in the description, but it would have been nice to have, you know, those who owned a daycare or provided child care to apply, but that's not what we've seen since I've been here.

Um before I came on, Erin was active manager, uh, and she could jump in if she wants if if you've seen that in prior years, but the applications that we receive aren't specific to like a daycare.

So it's it's specific to programming summer um after school programs, summer camps, um, in school programming, um, is what the focus of that grant is on.

Um, Aaron, do you mind sharing if maybe you have experience with that at all?

Or if you've seen it?

Oh, sure thing.

So, you know, during my uh short time as the uh temporary director, no, I did we did not observe any uh daycares applying or receiving those funds.

And to be honest, um, and I I spoke with Aaron a little bit before this a couple days ago.

That's not kind of the need that we get, you know, based on um clients who reach out to us.

Housing is the number one need.

We don't really get too many clients calling um about finding daycare or child care options just to be transparent.

Okay.

Um do you mind sharing with us just for the record?

Uh, do you happen to have an idea of how much money uh we provide for this grant annually?

Yeah, so fiscal year uh 26, that grant was 50,000 and 10 organizations receive funding.

Okay.

Now the money goes to the organizations in order for them to have these programs for the families.

Correct, yeah, to expand on their programs, continue the programs that they're already having, or implement some sort of new programs.

Okay.

And it's usually organizations, sorry, that also, you know, have like a community grant, but they also want to do, you know, additional programming.

So then they apply for the child and family success grant.

Okay.

How do you do you think uh would just from your old first impression or no?

How do you think this child uh tax credit for renovations on homes kind of overlaps with something or businesses because it's not just out of a home, um would overlap um with what we offer currently through this success grant.

I don't think it'll overlap at all.

I don't think the two um are the same.

Okay, so the thought is that they're addressing different needs, or at least uh the going after different groups of persons.

Yeah, from what you all discussed tonight.

Honestly, this is my first time hearing about that legislation, but from what you all discussed tonight, it seems like they wouldn't overlap at all.

Looks like that you all they're going after two different things.

Yeah, I don't share my do you happen to have any feedback or thoughts on that or if you be something we need them to do or yeah, I mean, like, so I've been co-sponsoring this for the past three budget cycles myself, along with Alderman Gay.

Uh, and I've pushed hard to keep the funding in this for this budget, so we don't need to do it as an amendment this go around.

Yeah, it applies to after school and summer camp.

So it's like a slightly older age demographic.

Uh child care in the sense of what this legislation is, you can kind of think of it like early child care.

So five and under uh kids who aren't necessarily in elementary school yet, uh kindergarten pre-K.

So it's just to get them into a way to be watched while parents are working.

You're saying this legislation?

Yes.

Okay, yes, okay.

Um so that's like what those child care facilities and child care homes.

That's usually their niche.

They obviously can also take care of older children, but um, those folks once you're in kindergarten pre-K, you're a little more under some of the more public programs that we have and early child care.

Right, there's just not a lot of options out there beyond private private care.

So let's say there is a summer program for a three-year-old, you know, a three-year-old uh summer program, uh, those businesses or organizations, facilities that are home, people that own the homes with the facilities, they can apply to the children and family success grant to get funding for their uh summer program as well as apply for the renovation of the the credit to go on the for property uh reduction um for any rent renovations to be made.

So uh I can definitely see how they could benefit from both, knowing that um one though is that programming piece that we just heard from Ms.

Smith uh for the summer and you know after school, et cetera.

And the other is the uh environmental piece, you know, how to make sure that they have uh you know a safe um accessible uh space that they can learn in.

So I I definitely can see how both of those uh would be beneficial for someone um to take advantage of in a positive way.

Um did you have anything you want to uh add, uh ultimate thorough percent of my or I don't think it's they're both good programs that like this family and uh children family success grant in the other.

Or to add to it with a child care tax credit to help our child care businesses.

Yes, Otterman Thorpe.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um Ms.

Young and Ms.

Lee, I'm I'm being formal because we're in a meeting thing uh so it's actually nice to e-meet you.

Um I have to tell you that I'm really excited that you are uh that your jobs exist and that you are in them.

Um I'm uh I look at this as a good opportun as a as a benefit of being a uh city council person uh to learn about that we have people in the city doing what you do.

So um, so first of all, thank you.

Um I I'm in the learning process.

Um Ms.

Young, who do you report to Vicky?

So you so Vicky's your boss.

Um she appears.

What a great boss.

You mentioned her name and she shows up amazing.

Yeah, I appreciate the compliment.

Um so uh I think I think the the uh what you do in the community grants is tremendous.

Um I do hear that they're unrelated.

So uh, but I'm I'm gonna ask you a question.

Um, and then I'm actually Vicky.

Uh I don't know if you've tracked the emails about the scholarship, but I've but if Vicky, if uh Miss Bucklin, if you're okay with me going there, I'd like to ask about that.

Um in a second.

But you uh Ms.

Young, Ms.

Lee, if you were to you get a hundred thousand dollars for these grants right now, right?

Well, we get we have three different grants.

So but the specific one grants is good.

So for child assess family success grant fiscal year 26, we receive 50,000.

50,000.

Yes.

And what are the other two grants?

Um we have the community grants and we have the volunteers at risk or also known as adopt the community grant.

Okay.

So in the children and family success grant, if the city council was to give you was to say we're gonna double that to a hundred thousand dollars.

Would would that be a good use of city funds?

I'm not gonna say it's not gonna be a good use.

It will definitely be a good use because it's an amazing program and and we get so many applications um and we can't, you know, fund them all, and we can't provide as much funding as they need.

However, the capacity at the office is would be the issue to add on more grantees to our office when we're already limited staff, you know, it's only four of us full time, three of us full time, two part-time, and we already have sixty-three, fifty-three in community grants right now, ten in adopt the community, and then another ten in child of family success.

So that's it it's a lot for us to take on.

So increase funding would mean more grantees would mean more work for us.

We're kind of limited.

Got it.

Uh great answer.

Thank you.

Um and a great answer because uh it's an honest answer, and um, and that's really important.

Um so city manager bucklin, I have a question for you um that you can either answer or defer.

Um there's a conversation going on about changing the scholarship, the the um I think it's a 40 or 50,000 scholarship uh that was initiated for the 26 budget and approved, and there's discussion about with alder woman Conti and I to take that money and put it specifically to um Annapolis Wrecks and Parks camps for needs-based uh uh scholarships to camps.

Um and there's several other older persons that'll probably jump in on this uh once once we develop this plan, but it would it would it be Ms.

Young's organization that would manage that um and I've I think I already heard the capacity issue, so so one of the things that I'm I'm I'm learning about, and and perhaps this is a do out that I'd like to continue the conversation because the concept would be right now the thinking is to uh provide that to one or two nonprofits to directly manage scholarships to wrecks and parks camps, um, and not manage the actual scholarships out of the city staff.

Um is that I I guess I'm I'm catching you uh on a totally different topic on a on a Thursday night, but um is that something that we should we should discuss further um so a a couple of things.

Um short answer is yeah, we can discuss further.

Um the scholarship that you're I believe referring to had a specific purpose, and the first thing we should talk about is what that purpose is and um how that purpose changes, what's the mechanism for that change?

Like I would want to talk through some of that stuff first.

Yeah.

Um as far as scholarships for Wreck and Parks, so Reck and Parks does do um some of that I would want to bring Director Johnson into that conversation.

Yeah, um, because they um they do some of that now, and I would I would want to bring her into that conversation about what's the the best way and um how does that fit with um with their efforts uh as they currently exist.

So I happy to talk about that further, but I would want to include Director Johnson and I would want to talk about that um that purpose for the dollars and how that potentially changes.

Yep, got it.

Yeah, let's start that conversation and I'll reach out to you and talk about it.

Um and then back to the topic at hand.

One more question, um Ms.

Bucklin is is if we approve this, um is it Ms.

Young's organization um together with the director of finance who would be managing this on the city staff.

So most of it would actually probably fall um most of it would probably fall to finance.

Um just because um they're the ones who do the actual collection.

The the role that I would assume that the Office of Community Services would play would be um just on the validation side, but there's a a lot of that that's um there's some of that that's publicly available information and so um I would assume that that Office of Community Services would have an interest in the results.

Um but I don't want to necessarily prejudge how much of that would fall on them versus how much would fall on on others.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Um I guess uh Mr.

Chairman is is now an opportunity for me to bring up uh the opportunity of reporting um so part uh in one moment because I was actually in in tandem with that I was gonna say what is the what was the limit we said we would offer on the annual basis uh for the total granting of monies for this piece of legislation yeah so let's say this is passed through what was the total I know we're gonna do four thousand per the total amount we would allocate I I don't think that there's a total I don't think that there's a total amount um that's sort of a a limit to how much um that potentially is worth that's spelled out in the legislation the limit that's the that you see within the that updated fiscal statement has to do with you know once you take a look at how many centers um red licensed child care centers are in the city how many of them pay property tax generally speaking what's the value of that once you take those factors in the fiscal impact statement um says kind of talks about here's here's the likely maximum 5000 yeah right so it should be less than that right so it it sort of gives us a ceiling but the legislation itself does not intrinsically um place a limit on it it's just that it's given that confluence of factors like here's sort of in some sense the worst case scenario okay I guess I'll enter yeah just a follow up and maybe a more practical question if this legislation is proposed here we are in a budget season has the city as a director of finance review looked at it and said we would if this passes we would take a degradation in revenue of X dollars.

And if you haven't had a chance to do that I understand that well so that's I mean that is what's in the fiscal impact statement but obviously this legislation hasn't passed yet so um that's uh that's a theoretical amount and I and I think part of what you see in some of the information that um Alderman Chandelmeyer had provided um was that the actual uptake rate in places like Montgomery County hasn't been anywhere near that high.

And so I think part of part of what we would want is to see a little bit of history of what is the actual uptake um yeah so 19200 is the staff report.

Yeah.

So that's that's the the right yep from the four yeah now that we've got the 1000 to the and it's not 85 centers before the eight centers.

Right I do want to make sure that we update the legislation at the top to ensure uh because at the top we still have 10,000 um I know that wasn't one of the amendments so just as we talk through amendments for today or you know the things you want to make sure we update uh make sure that the 10 thousand dollars uh the 1000 amount that is still listed at the top is now four thousand dollars and this is in the beginning of the legislation uh where we are on lines let me just tell you the lines uh for Cynthia if you're available uh for uh on line 26 it says setting the real property tax credit at a maximum of 10,000 we just want to make sure we update that to 4000 as well as line seven uh 1000 that'll be updated to 4,000 okay Otaman Shannon did you uh have something I saw your hand just uh yeah it seems like we're getting off of uh the discussion on the child uh children and family success grant and dive into direct conversation on a one twenty six I just want to make sure we're uh formally closing out ID sixty five twenty six here right thank you for the absolutely I should think

We just want to make sure we update that to 4,000, as well as line seven, uh 10,000, that'll be updated to 4,000.

Okay, Altaman Shannemeyer, did you uh uh have something?

I saw your hand just uh yeah, it seems like we're getting off of uh the discussion on the child uh children and family success grant and dive into direct conversation on a one twenty-six.

I just want to make sure we're uh formally closing out ID 6526 here.

Right.

Thank you for the absolutely thank you.

I know you say you were here to learn as well, but uh if there's nothing else you wanted to uh contribute just out of time and holiday and all.

Um I'll definitely talk with you and see you soon.

Uh thanks for everything.

Blessings to you.

Thank you.

Okay, see you.

Thank you, Alderman Shattermeyer.

We got held her hostage on that one.

I just joking, but um Alderman Thorpe, I know you had something that you wanted to share.

Do you mind?

Yeah, I would uh uh like to tack on to this legislation a reporting requirement.

Um that the city manager report to the city council at the end of the uh calendar year um of what uh how many child care centers um uh applied for and received the tax credit and what the financial implication was.

So um any anybody have any thoughts on that?

No, but now the question I would have is would that open up space for us to redecide whether this continues or would that just be for informational purposes?

Are you asking me?

Yes, I'm asking yes to both.

Yes to both.

I mean, I think I I I think yes to everything, right?

So if we get catastrophic success and 42 companies uh ask for this, and the feedback is that it's phenomenal, um, we should look at doubling it.

Um, you know, or or you know, the impact.

Um, as a matter of fact, I meant to add that to the for the city manager that that you know how many companies took us up on it, well, the financial impact is, and whether the city staff recommends that the impact was such that the program should be adjusted, and I would leave it adjusted or whatever the right word is increased, decreased, you know, catastrophic success is 42 companies apply for it, and that the and that we get child more child care centers.

Um we get great feedback, and that uh this is a great program and and we ought to look to if we can afford it to increase it.

On the other hand, if we get one or two that apply for it, we you know maybe let it go a second year, but is it is the is the uh squeeze worth of juice or the juice worth the squeeze?

Um, you know, do we continue the program and and burden the director of finance from managing yet another program if it doesn't have any input?

In other words, be wide open as to how to go forward.

Thank you.

Uh so I got two questions.

Uh one is uh Alderman Forp, is that you suggesting an amendment two?

I'm sorry?

Is that you suggesting an amendment two?

Yeah, what do you think reporting requirement?

What do you think?

I am absolutely fine with that.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, so uh that's what I'm suggesting.

So do we want to make that a rules and city government amendment?

Mm-hmm.

I I think that we can make it my amendment, we can make it your amendment, we can make it a committee amendment.

I think committee amendment would be more powerful.

That's traditionally how it's done on this front.

Um for my inputs worth uh sourer, do you need specific language from us to draft an amendment two for a reporting requirement?

You look at the uh sorry, we threw you for a loop there.

Um yeah, I would be helpful to have uh as um detailed um amendment as possible.

You can give me I will shoot you an email and I'll copy the committee members.

Um including that amendment though, if it doesn't have to be aside that line seven needs to say four thousand and line twenty-six needs to say four thousand.

That's that is part of the amendment one.

Okay, because I saw just one instance where that was A and B, I didn't I didn't see it in it change until it's it only said no, I'm saying I only saw on page three and line sixteen, but I didn't see it on line seven and line because it only says line sixteen.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

It doesn't say line seven, nor does it say line 26.

Okay, I'll take a look at that.

Okay.

Um, automatic hands too.

And the second question is like, can we revisit it, etc.

This is a go if this passes this credit will be available until the city decides to revoke it.

So we can revoke it with five votes.

That's all it takes.

So if it comes forward and the program ends up being a colossal boondoggle and what have you, I suppose we can revoke it.

Just takes five votes.

But um, if this passes, it's law, it's not gonna be a simple administrative fix where they can quietly pocket it and just not do the program anymore.

So we can revisit it anytime we want.

We can revisit it in one year, we can visit it in two years, we can revisit it in 20 years, but if it passes, it's law until five city council members decide we no longer want this to be law.

What that's saying is the amendment isn't including an annual review of whether we like you know say this is continuing or not.

It would have to be an amendment, someone would have to have an action.

Yeah.

If we put an amendment with a sunset on it, that I suppose would require us to take action in the future to continue it.

Um I don't like that idea.

I see our attorney just came on and said.

I would rather not put a sunset on this because I am highly confident that this is going to be wildly successful.

Um, and heck, even if we only have five businesses coming in, the main workload on our staff is going to be done at the front end of this, not as it continues.

So no, it would be continued every year, right?

Every year the new tax credit act uh request.

Yes, but like the main amount of labor on the staff started seeing was done on creating the initial program once it's up and running, it's just another thing that they can kind of just do.

Okay, so guess let's did you want to have something to say?

Um Ashley, attorney Leonard.

No, I was just listening and see if seeing if you needed any help that you guys got there on your own.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um okay, so uh Shannon, you're you're asking that we not include um a quote unquote sunset a piece there where we wouldn't re um revisit it annually like they have to do for the voting rights.

No, you know, we don't we don't like that and care for that one bit.

Um I don't mind a I don't mind uh a reporting requirement amendment.

I would be opposed to a sunsetting amendment.

Um will it absolutely blow up and poison the thing?

No, but I would just make it less efficient.

And um, the one thing I've learned in city government in the past five years is we're very bad at revisiting uh things that get sunsetted, and they tend to just quietly die.

So I know you wouldn't let it die.

I know we know we will you would remember ultimately.

I'm not, but I'm not gonna be here forever.

Okay, yeah, three years, three about still years left though, so we'll see on the thorough yeah, I uh and I I would agree.

I think the amount of money that we have uh at this, if it was if we were talking nine million dollars, we probably want to uh sunset it every year.

Um I I have an opinion and then a question for the city manager.

Um in that I'm I'm I think it would not be worth the city staff to sunset this thing every year for the amount of money we're talking about.

It's significant, it's real dollars, but but uh acting city manager Buckland.

I I I speak to you as a person who now has been the city manager for almost a year.

Um is it reasonable for me to think that as we move forward and we start asking for reports on things like this, that a future city manager will have the opportunity and would in fact um say, hey, I've looked at all the reports, and you know, there's 37 programs, 433 programs, whatever the right number is, nine programs, and we want to get rid of this, this, this, and this, and we want to do this.

Is that where that's really what I'm thinking about about this report is not for the city council necessarily to be doing that, but the city council to ensure that the data is there for the city manager in the future to be able to look at things like this and say, Yep, I got the report because it's mandatory by code, and we're gonna continue the program.

Check, uh, or I've looked at it, and the fact that 40 people are applying for this every year, you know, back to Ms.

Young's point, we need to hire somebody else.

And you know, we gotta tell the city council if we're gonna continue this program, we gotta hire somebody else.

It's a phenomenally great program.

Um, you know, so that's that's just the culture on that I'm looking at.

Is that make sense?

Um, so I'll I'll push back on a little bit of that.

Um, I think the question of what kind of resources are needed to continue a program is a separate question from whether the program should be continued in the first place.

Especially for something like this, um this is this sort of directly gets to what is the the vision and intention of the council, and and our task in that is to faithfully execute it and to provide enough information that you end up knowing whether the result fits the intention.

But at the end of the day, that is council's choice, it's not my choice, and it's not staff's choice.

Our task is to be an honest broker about what's in front of us, but at the end of the day, it's the it's the council that writes the music that we're playing, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

That that's answers my question.

Yeah, so I would like to pursue that amendment.

Yeah.

And I think it makes sense that you would want to know what's the end of the uptake.

Like that makes perfect sense to me.

Got it.

Now, what is what about that piece we mentioned for Miss Smith that she didn't own her property?

Are we going to you know forget about that?

Or are we gonna try to figure out a way to maybe make an amendment to this?

How would we go about that?

In Miss Smith's case, um renters do not, it's a property tax.

So renters do not directly pay property tax.

Um now, a question that I do have, and I appreciate the input of Ms.

Rutter and Miss Leonard, is could her landlord apply for this tax, even though the landlord themselves is not operating the business.

The property tax owner has to um meet the requirements of the state, and whether the improvements are applied to the property owner or the renter.

In I'm gonna let Ashley handle this one.

Um, so I mean in the case of like the where we're not talking about the business, the non-child care business who's going into um offering child care.

So we're talking more about the property that's primary purpose as child care.

I think the property owner probably could still apply for it, but the tax credit still has to go towards things that are being used for the child care portions of the property.

So, like the property owner couldn't be getting the tax credit just to fix up some other part of their property that is unrelated to the child care.

It would have to, as long as they meet the requirements of this is what they're using the money towards, and it's going towards the child care improvements on the property, then I don't see any problem with but they would have to apply, not the not the tenant.

But they're still using there's still the property owner is still using and allowing their property to be to be used for this purpose.

So they would just have to meet the season.

So hypothetically speaking, just wouldn't want to oh yes, I was just gonna say we just wouldn't want them to benefit from it and then kick the person out.

Right, you know, that wouldn't be they they need to whatever they're doing to their property has to tie in to the child care purpose.

But I mean that in theory that that could happen whether they kick it, like you know, like if a person stops using the property for whatever reason, but it's the tax credit is an annual thing, so each year we you know it's you know it's evaluated on an annual basis, so you know my DG.

But I mean that in theory, that that could happen whether they kick it, like you know, like if a person stops using the property for whatever reason, but it's the tax credit is an annual thing, so each year we you know it's you know it's evaluated on an annual basis, so you know, did you so if I owned a building on one, two, three state street and I rented it to Jane Doe, who is now operating the little kids child care center on one, two, three state street, I could as the landlord apply for this tax credit for that business operating, but I would have to make sure that every bit that I am for that tax credit I am going into repairs, improvements, etc.

Specifically for that child care business.

Correct, yes.

So and if I were to uh evict Jane Doe or not renew the lease with Jane Doe, and then there is no more licensed child care business, I can no longer get that tax credit, period.

Correct, right?

We're I mean, all we're looking at is how the property owner is using the money.

So a point of correction though, uh clarification, maybe they have to apply for it every year, so they can apply four thousand dollars to for capital improvement for the child care portion, they get the four thousand, then they could evict the child care center for whatever reason, whether it's we think it's a good idea or bad idea, we wouldn't be in the business judging it.

But if they evict them, then next year they couldn't apply for it if there's no child care center.

Correct.

But I mean, that would happen even if you don't have a landlord tenant situation.

Let's say the property owner is running their own daycare business, and they decide after two years of doing it and they no longer wanted to do it, and they would stop running it.

It's the same scenario.

You always have sort of the risk that the business in somewhere or other ends or doesn't continue.

But you're sort of hedging the bet that you're you're trying to help them stay in business by giving them a credit specifically related to this purpose in the hope that they continue on.

But there's as with any tax credit, there's no guarantee that for instance you give tax credits, there's tax credits for like um people in public safety positions or you know, teaching professions.

There's no guarantee that they're gonna be in that profession forever.

Every every tax credit is conditional, and there's always the chance that whatever it's tied to stops at some point.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

So what I would say is I personally like that the landlords can still apply for this because it one it encourages landlords to actually rent to childcare providers.

Uh some may be hesitant to because of potential for damages, liability, etc.

And they may not want to touch it unless there is this incentive.

Uh, and so this incentive will one help encourage landlords to keep uh these businesses in their uh in their properties, and two encourage them to rent to these types of businesses, which helps us again bring down that wait time and bring down those costs.

So does that have to be specified to build at all?

So we we don't have to make it clear that we that's just the information on the back end that we provide with child care facilities that your landlord can apply on your behalf, yeah.

Plus, what the also main benefit of that is if you are or the owner of a commercial property uh and you are renting to a child care center, uh, that is where that can really be benefited.

Oh so like let's say I own a uh a strip mall, uh, and there's a child care center, which is big public daycare center operating out of that strip mall, and they are renting that property for me.

I can get that tax credit, and it encourages me to keep that child care center in that property.

Hello, guys, this is Miss Smith taxing back in.

Oh, hey, Miss Smith, you're saying thank you.

I'm still here.

I love that idea.

We're talking about you.

I love that idea because it does encourage landlords to keep us, and you know, it's like an incentive for that, just like you know, like how's another section aid, and you know, like people that take certain, you know, like reimbursements or like little incentives, it helps them, you know, to keep us.

Um, because again, I know a lot of um women that's in this field that have centers and um family centers in Annapolis, and we do have that problem.

Like, I know girls right now looking for locations, a lot of girls that work in that like kind of care or celebrities, and they want their own business, it's just finding it.

So you have a lot of girls out there that want to do family daycare, but they don't know where to begin.

They don't know like if the landlord is want to rent to them because a lot of landlords are not going to rent, you know, to them.

Um so we there's a lot of we need help.

Yes, you know, if I can stream it from the mountaintops, like we need help.

I want to have a lot of centers, you know.

What you're talking about, Miss Smith.

Would we need to specify this?

On line 24, it says offer of real property tax to property owners who operate.

We should add something that says or permits a child care facility on their property, because then that would open up the access for them to be able to apply on the behalf of the persons that are in uh there having a child care facility.

Yes.

But if we just say who operates, they don't operate it.

And so if we went according to what the current the current language states, we may could tell someone to apply on the behalf, but it's no guarantee based off this current written uh bill that they would be allowed to do it.

Right.

And and I mean, my landlord, he could use the money to take out the carpet out of the house and put exact down some regular floors because you know his thing is oh, you know, you have to get my carpets cleaned every six months because it's brand as a daycare.

And he he overcharges me, of course, to live here, um, which is not fair, but that's what he does.

So maybe I could say, you know, like, hey, well, if we do this, could I, you know, like could you not charge me this amount on rent, you know?

Um, he could use that to you know get the carpets taken up, put the tiles down, maybe get a new paint job every year because you know, the kids touch the walls, you know, like um, it could be an incentive for he doesn't have to worry about his place being damaged.

He has other locations in Annapolis as well.

Like he has we we live in a town home, he owns the the three town homes in a row, and there's one that's empty, two doors down.

We I can't okay, I could take over that one as well.

You know, like we there's a lot of workers, it's just finding the people to help us or the locations and things like that.

We need help.

It's a lot of girls out there.

Other than Shamra, did you want to mention so like is that even allowed based off what the state uh says?

Um I believe so.

I'm getting a look for Miss Reuter that she wants to.

I think we have to research that to find out whether that would be allowed.

And then another thing is the amount of children that we can have, we're limited.

Well, we can only have eight children.

Oh, we upped that for family child care in the city of Annapolis to uh 15 out of an in-home.

That was upped last year.

But doesn't it go by um square footage of the home?

Not that I'm aware of, I think it's just based on the state staffing ratios, but that was one of my bills that I passed last year.

We need to talk because I've been working on this issue for working on child care issues for three years, Miss Smith.

I have been a lot of people.

I need to talk to you guys.

I need help.

And I I wanted to scream at the whole the whole phone call.

I'm like, I need help, guys.

I need help.

Because you have a lot of the right place that want to get into this, but we're being discouraged behind closed doors really bad.

I understand.

Uh I've been really trying to tackle and improve and streamline this uh this issue as much as possible for you guys.

So I I understand that I am really working on it as much as I can with the tools that we have.

But um Alderman Smith Brown, uh Chair.

So what you are suggesting is an amendment three.

Uh now granted this is potentially yeah, if we can what the state allows, which is a caveat, but let's get this ready now.

Is on page two line 24 and 25.

Offer a real property tax credit to property owners who operate, comma, insert or permit, comma a child care facility on their property.

Unless the definition of operate is not actually operating and it's just hosting.

I mean, you know, how do we what's the safest?

Whatever you think uh Cynthia is the best language for that, but absolutely I support that fully.

Okay, so that is amendment three.

Do you have that?

Got it.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Okay.

Well, it sounds sounds like we we did it.

Yes, almost uh automator to be.

And I just I'm gonna just read this if uh especially the sponsor if they have any uh edits before I send this to the group.

The city manager will report annually to the city council the number of companies requested and receiving this tax credit, the amount approved, an assessment of the effectiveness of the program and recommendations for improvement to the program, if any by February 28th of the year following the calendar year of the program.

Okay.

Just for consistency in the language.

Other than that, that's good.

So uh Mr.

Chair, through the process of what we have is we now need to vote on amendment one, which is already written, uh Alderman Thorpe's amendment two, uh which we can call committee amendment and then uh committee amendment number three, which is what we just went over.

Okay.

Is there a motion?

Can we bundle that?

Is there a motion to bundle those in a one or do would you all prefer to do one one one?

We can we we can only do one one one.

Okay, is there a motion to um have a recommendation uh of amendment one uh presented to us?

Okay, is there a second?

Second.

Okay, all in favor of that.

I and uh just to kind of explain where amendment one came from.

I know it's already passed, but um, I actually went through and looked up what these uh properties were actually paying in property tax, and it was not close to that ten thousand dollars for the vast majority of them.

So four thousand dollars is still going to cover a lot of these substantially while allowing room to grow.

So yeah, I was gonna ask where the four thousand came from.

Uh the median the median amount of property tax, most of the in-home uh properties were paying was about thirty five hundred dollars.

Yeah.

So that's uh okay.

Um well is there a motion for amendment uh two uh from our committee uh presenting okay, second for that, because we have one move.

Is there a second uh ultimate thorough?

Was that your second?

Second.

Okay, all in all in favor of amendment two.

Great, thank you.

Uh is there a motion motion for the final third amendment that we have presented?

Um caveat perfectly it does go through this the state um for amendment three.

Is there a motion for that one?

So moved.

Okay, is there a second?

Okay, all in favor of that uh of the third motion, excuse me, that we have here.

All right, thank you.

Um so it sounds like we have all three amendments uh with a uh favorable recommendation from our committee.

Now we're headed to the final uh piece here on the uh legislation.

Um do we are we are favoring the legislation with those amendments included in them to be clear?

Correct.

Um 126 motion to be favorable as amended.

Yes.

Uh so I take it that's your motion to do so.

Yes, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, is there a second for that?

Second.

Okay, all in favor of the motion.

Um can I get an aye?

Okay.

Um thank you.

Uh there's no abstention.

Uh that's a favorable recommendation with the amendments into this legislation.

Um took us some time to get there, but we got there on the shannomyer.

We got there.

It took us this time.

All out of love, and it's for the people of the city of Annapolis, our residents.

And so um that is the agenda tonight um as I see it.

Let's let's see where we are uh here now.

Okay.

So we have uh reached um adjournment here before we leave.

Uh thank you so very much, Ms.

Smith, for joining us, giving your thoughts.

Um surely you can reach out uh to Alderman Shannemeyer uh and us.

If there's any questions, you can come to city council meetings.

We're here to support you.

Um but I appreciate you being in ward three um as well uh with what you are doing.

So um feel free to reach out and to Aisha and uh Aaron.

Uh thank you two for joining us as well.

Um we appreciate you all for being a part of our city.

Um and everyone else, uh, you all have a blessed holiday uh acting attorney, excuse me, city attorney Ashley and acting uh manager, uh Vicky, Madeline, and of course we love you, Cynthia, and Caitlin as well.

Um is there a motion to adjourn my alderman?

Uh move okay, is there a second?

Awesome.

All in favor of adjournment by since everyone.

Okay, peace.

And can I think that white folks had and more and I wrote a poem in reference to you know what what was on in the old please.