Council, today is Tuesday, November 18th, 2025 at 6 p.m.

And I will call this regular city council meeting to order.

Council or manager, are there any adjustments to the agenda?

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I have one adjustment, which I emailed the council about.

I won't speak too much about it, but if you would add an agenda, uh consent agenda item 4F to authorize free parking for the holidays, and Tracy Lewis from the partnership is here to talk about that at visitors and communications.

And then just this is I feel a little embarrassed about this one, but item 8D should be discussed the FY27 budget survey.

We are in FY26, so I was can't believe we're that far, but that's uh just a technical error uh on the agenda.

So noted.

Council, anything for you?

Okay, then a motion to approve the agenda as amended would be in order.

So moved.

Thank you.

Moved and seconded.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Thank you very much.

Under visitors and communications, anyone wishing to address the council regarding an item that is not on the agenda.

Tracy, I'll do you during the consent agenda.

Is that okay?

Okay.

Fantastic.

So hearing and seeing no one council, we'll move on to the consent agenda.

We'll be approving the minutes uh for the meeting of 11525.

We will be approving uh one license on behalf of the clerk's office.

That is the queer craft fair on 1206 25.

That does have the requisite approvals, and it was in your packet.

Uh we'll be approving resolution 2025-24.

That is a master equipment lease purchase agreement.

This is required pursuant uh to the fire department self-contained breathing apparatus equipment that was previously approved by the council.

Yep, correct.

Um we will be approving a five thousand dollar donation from the Bruce A Trust to Capstone Emergency Heating Program.

And I wanted to note also, Council, and thank you very much.

You had approved a $5,000 allocation for emergency SNAP gap funding.

Uh thankfully that was not needed.

Uh the way things worked out.

So I just wanted to make that notation.

I was speaking with Carol about that uh earlier.

That money, so that money is available, that $5,000 will be available in the Brewster Trust if it is so needed.

Okay with that, Carol?

Okay.

Um and council, you will be authorizing the manager to execute two contracts.

One is with uh DEW, $356,505 for construction management services relative to the public works garage.

This contract was a result of a competitive bid process.

Four contracts were received and were reviewed by our architect and our management team.

The recommendation to award to DEW was unanimous.

Uh and uh under the other, there are actually two contracts for consideration.

One is with Freeman French and Freeman, 250,695 dollars for construction documents, and one with ReARCH, 112,000 112,680 for design build services.

Uh city will be executing only one contract.

Uh the preference presented by the manager is a design build contract, B less expensive contract, but we're waiting for USDA confirmation that the design build um preference is grant eligible.

So both of those contracts that you did receive uh the briefing on were subject to a competitive bid process.

The design build contracts were reviewed and scored by Tom Baker and buildings and facilities, committee members, Charlie Atwood and Jeff Bergeron.

The rearch design build proposal was unanimously recommended.

But again, we're waiting for confirmation from USDA.

And then lastly, under item F.

Tracy, how are you?

Hi, everybody.

Hi Tracy.

So um typically uh the partnership asks the city council to approve uh free parking in the downtown um between Thanksgiving and the new year.

And so we are requesting for free parking from Friday, November 28th through Wednesday, December 31st.

Um last year we put bags over the um the meters and um in the past we had put stickers on them and they stuck and made a mess of the meters.

So um, but with the stickers, we were still able to get um coins in there and um with the bags over them, we weren't.

So um but with the stickers we were still able to get um coins in there and um with the bags over them we weren't so I have a proposition of putting um uh a red ribbon on it with a tag that says there are holidays uh free part two hour free parking and um and then any money that comes in during that time I guess would be up to your decision of who you would like to donate it to I think in the past we've done a couple different organizations um I don't have any off the top of my head this year um so that is my request fantastic any questions council have a question sure of course so being one of those people that have tried to take those stickers off I appreciate you uh not going with the sticker idea um and going really with being creative with the ribbon I think that having that uh that aspect of being able to donate whatever people feel like you know putting into the meters gives a different different level of love from Barrie City so thank you for putting that touch on there yes well I'm assuming because um I I don't carry a lot of change these days so I don't put a lot of money in the meters but I'm you could still also pay with the app as well I'm assuming that money would also go would capture it yeah during that period yeah and yes of course um can we can we publicize in some way that the the parking meters you know you can put money in the meters and it will be donated to whoever we're gonna do yeah I think what we've done in the past is we've put it I think I I made it the Facebook banner page of our picture of the of the website um so yeah we'll get the word out about it regroup message I usually do a a post about it as well on our social media um and then the sticker we could add like if you do choose to donate um we could pick a don a donor and I could put it on the the tag now or completely up to you.

Can I make a suggestion?

Of course so we could kind of make it almost like a contest for example each one of us could pick one of our own organizations within the community and then somehow you know maybe on the Facebook page they could vote on you know their particular organization and maybe a way to get people involved and make it fun and you know have a little holiday spirit with it.

What are the dates again?

Um it's the Friday November 28th through Wednesday December 31st.

So I mean how much revenue do you really think you're going to it's it's it's um yeah it's it's Carol 1200 1200 yeah really well it it was yeah you know when you're feeding people 25 dollars at a time 1200 bucks makes a big difference so and uh yeah so hey we're grateful to the people who uh kudos for trying to come up with a creative solution to the stickers of course I'm Tracy I so appreciate the work you do but I'm imagining a blowing snowstorm and your ribbons hopefully not all of uh look I'm I'm rooting for you but you know and hey if anyone out there has a better solution that you think would you know I'm sure Tracy is all ears.

Okay so council I would just add mayor that it is downtown parking lots it's only ribbon uh meter so this doesn't mean you can park on the Plain Street lot for example without feeding the meters so um just just ahead of the whole there's a red ribbon it will have the two hours it's the core downtown yes yeah perfect and one last question you said two hour free parking so like people who are I don't know if D measures the time during the holidays she does something to do.

No she's she's really good so if you're if you're an employee and you're thinking look we love our downtown employees but if you're thinking you're gonna park there all day no D's gonna snag you and then we'll have a $25 parking ticket to go towards the fund.

So it's all good.

Any other questions council?

Okay that was item F on the consent agenda uh if there's no other questions on the consent agenda a motion to approve would be in order second and it's moved and seconded is there any discussion hearing none all those in favor the motion is presented please signify by saying aye.

Aye and those opposed thank you very much council we're moving to 4A on the agenda we'll be approving the city warrants of 111925 and ratifying the week of 11125 a motion would be in order.

This week I had three people contact.

Two came in.

They thought it was a scam.

I just want people to be very aware that this is a real thing.

We're not trying to capture any personal information.

We just want to make sure you are still in Barrie City and you still want to participate in elections.

You have a prepaid postcard enclosed in the letter questioning whether you're uh resident.

And the reason why you're being questioned is you have not voted into general elections.

Um course the people that came in.

I oh I I I know I voted, but we have it captured that you haven't.

But anyway, um Yes, you are still residents, but do you still want to be on the voter checklist?

Just fill out the card, mail it in, bring it in.

It's postage free.

So just please um know that it is not a scam, it is a real thing.

And it's done every other year, odd years.

So this is 2025, it will be done again in 2027.

And that's all I have.

Thank you.

And if someone doesn't respond, and then they show up to vote, it's okay.

That you can just register them.

They they just show that they're a very city of the city.

They just have to sign an affirmation that they are a resident.

And it's all good.

Yeah, it's all gone.

They become active again.

Yeah.

Any questions for the city clerk?

Okay, thank you, council.

Uh then I will uh declare the liquor and cannabis control board uh in session.

You have two licenses for consideration this evening.

One is a second class liquor license and one is a tobacco license.

Both were submitted by Quality Market and both have the requisite approvals and were forwarded to council.

Motion would be in order.

So moved.

Thank you.

And a second, please.

Moved and seconded.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Thank you very much.

The motion carries, and the liquor and cannabis control board is adjourned.

Minister Manager.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um I was hockey.

Uh very good.

Good deal.

Always good.

You're like right into it now.

I yes.

For for the long haul at this point.

So this must have been a slow news day.

It's a beer league.

I mean, how many minutes a week are going now?

Uh four.

Four.

Yeah.

So keeping it up.

Um couple updates for the council.

Um FEMA demolitions are underway.

I sent a regroup message out last week.

Um they have started on the uh landslide properties, which makes sense.

These were the properties that um were the first to close.

Uh so 25 Oswald was number one.

They were working on 36 and 44 Pike Street today.

And I think it's going to take them a little bit longer than they anticipated there, but they uh this first round of demolitions will conclude with 106 Courier Street, either late this week or early next week.

Um these are um so our staff helps with the site prep.

So for example, public works uh might have marked out some utilities, um, but all the demo work is done by state contractors uh paid for uh by FEMA and the state.

Um so just for reference, uh I we closed on these properties in July or August.

Uh so we're about you know three to four months between the closing and the demo for uh for the ones that are at least that's the timeline we've seen now.

Um we have three pending closings uh in the next few weeks, um, and we expect to uh to start getting more of these demolition permits coming through.

As I said, we hit that three to four month period from the date of the closing, which seems to be the the range they're working with.

Um you may have heard I saw some chatter about it uh of some some work at the BOR that was done last week, uh some cancellations.

Uh we had to replace uh repair the brine pump, um, and we had to fix some leak leaking equipment underground in the underground or under surface piping system that keeps the ice frozen.

Uh this is not related to the header project we completed last summer.

The headers working terrific.

Um this is just the underground piping that uh sort of feeds the chemicals that that keep the the place cold.

So it has been repaired, it's fixed, it's repainted, uh everything's back to normal.

Um, you know, kudos to the facility staff for troubleshooting this.

This is um, as I mentioned before, this is our our most profitable, if you want to call it that facility on the hill, it's the gets the most use.

Um, and so they they were able to have this done.

This was a good time for that problem to happen before games, high school games start happening, etc.

So uh cancel a few practices, uh, but uh but everything's back to order for the people who are frequent visitors of the BOR.

Um just a heads up uh sort of similar to Clerk MTV's warning.

Um there's been somebody impersonating a code enforcement uh staff member in the city.

We've heard from some merchants about this.

Uh a merchant was contacted by a person threatening an inspection uh and asking for direct payment.

Um this is we've heard of this happening in other communities as well.

Just um, you know, our staff will never ask for payment.

Um so uh during that code enforcement piece or in person during the inspection.

Um we asked people to familiarize yourself with the fire department code enforcement team.

There's only really two people on the code enforcement team, um, Nick and uh and Arthur and you know the deputy chief will help them out from time to time.

So it's not a huge team to be familiar with, but those are the the three people you might uh see doing that kind of work.

Um we also encourage people to work with trusted contractors um for that life safety work done on their properties, uh and of course contact the police department if they suspect any suspicious activity.

Um winter parking rules are in effect.

Uh they were in effect as of the uh 15th.

Um we're continuing last year's pilot of a forecast dependent bands.

Uh, I've heard from a lot of people who are very happy with it last year, so we're gonna try to uh make it work.

Um the key to this is that it's incumbent on residents to find a way to get informed and stay informed about when the bands are in effect.

Um last year it was a little bit bumpy where we had a little bit higher tow rates in the first couple days of bands.

Um it evened out and and and got back to normal as we went through the season, but we certainly want to avoid that.

Our our goal, as I've said before, we we don't want to get rich on towing people, we just want to plow streets.

So we really just want to encourage compliance um so that our our plow truck drivers can do their job uh and keep the roads um passable.

So the other reminder for for longtime residents is the ban is now from 11 p.m.

to uh 6 a.m.

We changed that last year in ordinance.

Um the bands used to start at 1 a.m.

We we added the two extra hours.

One, it's easier to communicate it because technically the ban is you know the the ban date would always be the the the following day uh when it was 1 a.m.

So that was just really tough to get the message across to people.

Now you can basically uh we it's easier for us to just get the message out of when your car should not be on the street.

Second of all, it allows our our plow truck drivers to get an earlier start and plowing.

Um so remember it's 11 p.m.

to 6 a.m.

and there's temporary parking at the BOR during parking bans, and it's only during the ban, so this is not a the the BOR gets a lot of use as I said, those this is not a permanent place to keep your vehicle if a ban is in effect and until the ban is lifted, um people are certainly welcome to to have their car up there.

There's a there's signage up there, you just basically park the first instance in the row right next to the BOR.

Um so encourage so far so good.

Um and just encourage people to really stay informed.

And of course, the best way to do that is by signing up for regroup, uh which you can do by visiting our website and clicking the banner at the top.

And then finally, just a brief comment on the contract you approved council, thank you on the DPW garage construction management firm.

Um we uh really excited about the the results of this procurement.

Um the timeline for uh work to begin on the site is April, uh, and they expect a seven to eight months timeline to get us moved in.

So um we are very, very, very excited um about uh getting started with DEW uh and uh and having a ribbon cutting with the the golden shovels in April with everybody.

So um very happy to to see that keep moving forward.

And that's it for me.

Questions come from the pipes underneath the BOR.

Yes, is it like a crawl space?

Did you have to melt part of the ice?

I'm just trying to pick up the case.

Um they the leak was fortunately um in the section of the of um the rink that we can access through panels.

Um we had to um we had to isolate one section.

So for example, I was there for uh my kids' practice last week, and there was one strip of the ice closest the boards closest to the stands that had sort of melted because we had to sort of isolate it, and so the the chemicals wasn't the chemical was not running up and down that section, and that made it just the water not freeze.

So um it's uh it's it's a probably a longer term issue to do some longer term hard harder work on the whole piping system under there.

Luckily, we were able to isolate this and and access it from panels over by the Zamboni doors.

Okay, the majority of the pipes are actually in the concrete.

Yes, yeah.

So they're they're encased in concrete.

And generally they don't corrode and they last a very long time.

But the sections that are outside the concrete, because they're subject to the elements, those will corrode.

Yeah, I got a crash course.

Most people didn't realize that the government was shut down, but everyone knew that the ice at the BOR on my okay, I get it.

We're doing our best.

Yes, Council.

Question about the um someone impersonating a code enforcement officer.

Are they do they carry uh like I'm sure they look like code enforcement, but they have a badge?

I mean they're in uniform.

Yep, they wear a uniform, they have a badge on.

Or ours do.

I don't know, the impersonator.

No, I didn't mean the impersonation, I meant like the show up.

So you could say, where's your badge?

Exactly.

They they rarely just show up as a courtesy.

They'll always call you.

And you know, if you have any doubts, I mean just say, do you mind if I call you back?

And if you call the non-emergency number at the fire department, you can hit their extension and they'll pick up the phone.

And if it's not them, then you'll know you're being scammed.

So, you know, we don't and and we certainly don't we don't ask for money.

It doesn't work, it doesn't work that way.

So, but great question.

Thank you for asking it.

Uh anything else for the manager of council?

Okay, then we will move on to new business.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Quick question.

So just to be specific.

Any payment that would be going to the city would be good going directly through the clerk's office.

Treasurer's.

Yeah, if if there's anything that comes of a fine or a fee or uh something of that nature, um that would be that would be paid to the clerk's office.

I mean, you don't you're not you don't pay for the inspection.

Right.

Uh if you're a landlord, for example, you pay $50 per unit per year, you pay that in May, and that is your inspection fee, and you'll be inspected on average once every three years.

Uh if you are a restaurant, um, you know, or or a commercial establishment, you don't pay at all.

Um that's actually included if, for example, if you were doing work on your building, that was included in your permit fee.

So you don't actually pay at all.

If you if you have a number of infractions, you can be fined.

That rarely happens.

Usually Nick will say, I'm gonna give you 30 days, depending on the level of infraction.

If you're a big apartment building with um no smoke and fire detector detectors, you're probably getting fined right then and there, and you should.

And in that instance, yeah, but you don't we we don't ask for money.

But we're and we sure don't ask for money up front.

In that instance, though, they still wouldn't pay a code enforcement.

Correct.

All the money is received through here.

Right.

Yeah.

So just blanket statement that no matter who is asking to be paid, it's always going to be paid through that office.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you, all of our nick copping is the consummate professional.

Um he must have his little speech memorized because every time I meet him at a building, he introduces himself to me.

And I'm like, I know who you are.

I knew your dad, he was a wonderful man.

But he introduces himself to me, gives me a card.

Um, so no, if it doesn't feel right to you, um yeah, don't take the call.

Any other questions for the manager, council?

Then we will move on to item eight A on the agenda.

This is volunteer appointments.

We are Tracy, you are you're first up.

So, counsel, this is uh we'll be interviewing three candidates for the newly created neighborly Barrie Committee.

Uh so we'll be interviewing interviewing Tracy, Joanne Reynolds, and Ernie Drown.

Tracy, how are you?

I'm good.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and why you're interested.

Um Tracy Lewis, I'm the executive director of the Barrie Partnership.

I've been the director of the Barry Partnership for six years.

Um I think this initiative is a great thing for the partnership to be a part of and to help promote the things that the committee wants to do.

And um I'm excited to be a part of the committee.

Fantastic questions, counsel.

So usually I ask Tracy if you've uh if you're familiar with the committee and um whether you're prepared to meet the time demands.

Um, you know, as a committee member.

This is a new committee, so I can't ask that question.

So are you gonna play nice?

I'm gonna play nice.

Okay, good.

Council, uh motion to approve would be in order.

So move.

Thank you.

Um all those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Thank you very much, Tracy.

And thank you for everything you do around the city.

Looking forward to um very merry holidays and and kicking that off.

That's always that's always a great time.

Thank you again.

And you're welcome to stay, you know that, but if you'd prefer not to, we understand you've had a long day.

Um Joanne, I think I saw Joanne online.

Oh, right here.

Oh, there you are.

How are you?

I'm good, how are you?

Good, good, thank you.

Uh Joanne, you want to do the same?

Tell us a little bit about your interest in the committee.

Absolutely.

I'm Joanne Reynolds.

I'm a retiree.

Five years coming up.

And um is I'm interested in this committee.

Oops, sorry.

Um mostly because I spend a lot of time in town and in the city, I should say.

And I'm really excited about the idea of creating some special things and special events for people to make them feel like we're a closer community than what they might be feeling today.

Um, I've actually had the pleasure of talking with Beth at length about Sonia about the idea and sort of what their thoughts were in and making the proposal.

And um I'm excited about it.

I think it'll be fun, interesting, and something different.

And as a retiree, I have a lot of time.

So thank you.

Council, any questions?

So, Ditto, like I said, it's a new committee.

Uh, so I I can't ask you if you're prepared to meet the time constraints because we don't quite know what they are yet.

But you'll play nice, right?

Absolutely.

There you go.

Council motion would be in order.

Yes.

And mayor, sorry, uh just one point.

If the council could I I had suggested um we try to stagger terms, so I had suggested a couple, uh, maybe two people for two year terms and uh one person for a one year term.

That way we sort of keep the short the balance.

So I just if the council I I sort of put Tracy So these are 27.

Um so this Tracy's was uh 27 term council in terms of the mover and seconder any issue with doing that way after the fact.

Okay, council.

If there's any objection, we can revote it.

But that was a 20, that was an appointment until 2027.

And Joanne's appointment would be either 26 or 27.

What would you like, Joanne?

Oh, give me the 27.

Ernie, you you you just got preempted.

I'm really sorry.

Something tells me.

No, it's all good.

Council, a motion would be in order.

So thank you.

Um second, please.

You get a second, thank you.

Thank you.

It's been moved and seconded, council.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed, thank you very much.

Thank you, Joanne.

Appreciate you.

Thank you.

Ernie, how are you?

It's all yours.

Yeah.

I'm Ernie Brown.

I'm also retiree.

Uh my family's been in Barrie for a long, long, long time.

And anything that I can do to make this a better at your friendlier place, I would like to have a shot at that.

Um I think this is a great proposal.

And the we've just begun thinking about how we can tap into all the service organizations in the city.

Um do some brainstorming to get things going um cookie stands on the speed.

All right.

So I'm I have the time and tastic.

So you have the time.

And you'll play nice.

I and it'll all be good.

Okay, council, the motion will be in order.

Thank you.

It's moved and seconded.

Any discussion?

This was a 2026 appointment, correct?

Until 2026.

Fantastic.

All those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Appreciate you serving Ernie.

Thank you.

Motion carries.

Uh council, we will move on to item 8B on the agenda.

This is the first reading warned for 645.

Well, uh, that's okay.

Um, you know what?

If you don't mind, Council Mr.

So yeah.

Uh we set the agenda.

Oh.

Oh, I hate this crap.

Uh can we move on to the city?

Um, we're we're gonna go ahead with the hearing.

Uh and if anyone shows up, I will keep an eye on things.

If anyone shows up, we will we will do it over again.

I I may have a proposal for delay.

Are you here to speak to an item on the agenda?

Um yes, and I am afraid you might have talked about it in the first like five minutes.

I'm one of the organizers of the queer craft fair, and we have the uh oh, you you're approved.

You're already approved.

Oh, we've seen that you know some folks the yeah, but anyway, great.

Yay, we're good.

Thank you for coming.

I'm sorry to jump in there.

I thought it might give us some time, but it didn't.

Um yeah, so why don't we uh well yeah, we'll move ahead with the um with the first uh reading.

I mean, I suspect realistically, Nicholas, this is still a little bit of a work in progress in terms of staff.

Yes.

So you may be seeing this come back for a first reading at a later date, depending on whether the any changes are substantive.

So uh Nicholas, go ahead.

Thank you, Mayor.

Yes, uh so uh council.

This is um a first reading draft um of the nuisance property ordinance that uses the St.

Albans um uh ordinance passed in December as a model.

Uh we worked with the city attorney uh to as I said, use this the St.

Albans ordinance as a basis, but then to add some provisions that um were discussed by the council at the November 5 meeting.

Um I think the biggest one of those um was that this proposed ordinance uh is not limited to rental properties.

This proposed ordinance applies to any property.

Um there's there's a little bit of a difference in terms of the um consequences that might uh uh occur as a result of of being a private property uh uh owner-occupied property versus rental, but the the ordinance as a whole applies to all properties in Barrie, and I think that was a very valid point that was raised when we discussed this.

That not necessarily rental properties are are you know the focus of nuisance issues.

Um I'm happy to walk through the the core constructs of the ordinance um starting with uh there's a section 26-3 on definitions.

Um a public nuisance is decided is is defined as a property um where uh citations or factual basis for three or more criminal citations happen within a 90-day period.

Um it also refers to a property on which uh or within 200 feet, uh a person associated with that property engaged in nuisance behaviors, uh also three citations within a 90-day um period.

Um a property on which which had factual basis for civil violations on their code of ordinances.

Um the um the definitions also exempt um uh three types of of citations uh both and and that is those that are related to domestic violence against a tenant or an occupant, acts involving potential child neglect uh or stalking um of an owner or tenant of the property, uh with the idea being there that you you you don't want to um incentivize people not to report those things or or punish them for for those those types of events happening on the property.

Um the there's a a couple more boilerplate definitions of you know what a property owner, which is you know the person who's uh uh has the vested title, um persons associated with, I think this is another one to focus on.

Um we know from from our police department, I think you've heard from Chief Vail on this in a couple times, where uh sometimes the people who are um uh associated with the nuisances that we're dealing with are not from Barry.

Sometimes they're uh transient people moving from house to house.

Um, and so we thought it was important to have this person associated with construct because there should be also at some point after we've had three or more citations, some accountability for the people who are being allowed into a home or into a property uh or into a rental unit.

Uh and so there should be some accountability for that if there's a person, you know, let's say there has been someone who's been cited twice for a violation uh who's not from here, and they come and they do it a third time.

That that at that point there has to be some sort of accountability for that person being um you know, sort of allowed to be in that property to create to continue to create those um nuisances.

Um the uh code enforcement team is uh the the enforcement mechanism for this ordinance, and we cite a uh section of ordinance which defines the co-enforcement team as city manager and the chief co-enforcement officer.

Uh so that would be myself and Chief Cushman.

Um and we would of course work um uh across the board.

This is an ordinance that would involve not just um Chief Cushman and myself, but also Nick Copping, the uh Chief Vail, the police department.

This is um, you know, we we had to have sort of a an enforcement mechanism in the ordinance as the points of responsibility, but in reality, this is gonna be um Oops, I'm sorry, geez, it's embarrassing.

An ordinance that's gonna be uh implemented with staff from across the the city.

Um then we get into sort of the meat and potatoes of what the ordinance does.

Um the uh if if three uh citations occur within that 90-day period, the code enforcement team uh and if the co-enforcement team has a reasonable basis to believe a property is a nuisance property, then uh we would notify the owner, request a meeting to address the conditions, and work on a uh nuisance abatement plan.

Um if a nuisance abatement plan can be agreed to uh collaboratively with the property owner, terrific.

Uh that owner would have 45 days to implement it.

Uh we would monitor its implementation, and if it's if it happens or you know if there's significant progress to it happening and we know that it's we have confidence that it will, um, then great.

This issue has been addressed and we move forward.

Um if there is no resolution that we cannot come to an agreement on a nuisance abatement plan, um, or if it's uh not complied with, then it gets kicked up to a city council public nuisance property hearing, um, and which would be a quasi-judicial hearing where all parties would have an opportunity to be heard, all parties would have an opportunity to be represented and provide testimony.

Um the city would have the burden of proof uh to show that this is in fact a nuisance property.

And at that point, the council would uh issue a decision uh that could find on the side of the city or could find on the side of the property owner.

Um in terms of the consequences that the council could um could enact, it would be um you you could order the owner to um to make improvements to the property, such as uh building or property repairs, maintenance, lighting, cameras, security system, um acts limiting access to common areas, uh no trespassing people.

I know we we had a big discussion about that this summer, obviously, in terms of what the city can do with no trespass issues, but as a private property owner, um they have greater rights with that regard.

So if we're talking about the you know person associated with who may not be a resident, may not be a tenant, um that would be something that the council could then um you know look at in in terms of requiring.

Um the biggest stick in this uh ordinance would be that the council could um could require or direct that the certificate of occupancy for the property be uh removed, um, which wouldn't uh require that it not be in uh inhabited anymore.

So that's that's the biggest stick that we have in this um in this ordinance.

Um those consequences that I just talked about would uh apply to rental units or commercial properties.

Um there's a section, then the next section in the ordinance talks has a slightly different consequence.

We can't do the certificate certificate of occupancy for a an owner-occupied building, but um we could escalate that in the judicial bureau at that point um instead of of the certificate certificate of occupancy, excuse me.

Um we uh there's some penalties uh associated with failure to comply with the city council decision, and those are first violation of 250 dollars with a waiver of 165, second violation of 500 with a waiver of 325, um, and each separate day would constitute a separate violation.

One thing I would note that is not in this draft that was contained in the St.

Albans ordinance is uh anything related to evictions.

Uh the city attorney uh uh advised us against becoming meddling in in third-party contracts that could create different uh and new liabilities for the city.

For example, if we we could never force an eviction anyway, but um we had uh looked at a version that talked about encouraging the starting of eviction proceedings.

Uh city attorney discouraged that as well because if if that is in an order um and the tenant is evicted, um we could become liable, for example, for lost rent, right?

So they I think the bigger stick uh here is the certificate of occupancy revocation, which um is is a pretty important point of leverage that the city would have uh in the enforcement of these uh cases.

So this is the draft.

Um, I think that we're still, as the mayor mentioned, I uh you know, we're still fine-tuning it ourselves from the staff perspective, making sure we can make this happen.

We feel generally comfortable comfortable with this construct, um, but there may be changes.

Uh I did talk to um Treasurer Dawes earlier today, she did mention that um what we'd normally do in the case of uh of a uh ordinance coming back with revision is it would be advanced to a second reading.

We could have as many second readings as we would want, um, that it wouldn't revert to a first reading.

So that's just for um process-wise, um, if the council chooses to move forward, that's what we would do.

We could move it to second reading um and keep it there until it's it's at a point where the council is ready to enact it.

So um happy to answer questions.

Um like I said, I you know welcome uh any suggestions to make this uh stronger and uh work in progress that we hope to fine-tune and get to a place where we all feel great with it.

Council?

Yes.

I have uh just a couple questions.

Um is under 26 4 C, which is when it starts the sort of conversation between the code enforcement and the property owner.

And I don't have an answer for this, but part of what I don't want to see happen is in a situation where the property owner is a landlord, I don't want to see the landlord like not involve the tenant in the fix or not involve them in the conversation.

I guess I would hate to see something the city does result in sort of an unfair eviction or unfair consequences for a tenant if it's actually the property owner problem.

So I don't know if the solution is to get the tenant in the conversation sooner, or include in here language saying that if it is a tenanted property, that they also be involved in this early conversation so that they understand their rights and responsibilities in this process.

And I think this goes for commercial residential across the board, anyone who's renting a space, I think should understand that something is going on with the property that they're renting.

Yeah, I I see that's a good point.

I mean, I know that it's when it gets to the council level, the tenants have a role.

And I think yeah, but I I think I think you're right that there may be a role here, and it may be as simple as um you know the meeting includes uh property owner, landlord, and tenant.

I think I I don't see uh an immediate issue with it.

Um just for for clarification on you know, obviously, on an ordinance of this magnitude, we're gonna run all changes by the city attorney.

So I unless they've they point out something that might be problematic, I I don't see an issue with it.

And practically speaking, again, having been on you know, the inspection end uh and having dealt with um Mr.

Copping and others.

Um they're usually they're usually pretty good if there's some sort of investigation.

For example, we had an instance where a tenant had removed uh smoke detectors, even though it says right in the lease that every tenant that we my personal tenants are required to test the smoke, you know, you push a button and you test it monthly, and it says that you're required the tenant is required to change the batteries every six months.

If they can't change the batteries, they're required to notify me, and I will come change the batteries for them.

And a tenant had decided they would just remove a smoke detector that was malfunctioning.

Um Mr.

Copping didn't have sharp words for me, but he had sharp words for the tenant.

And he told that so I I think there is some balance there.

And I think probably again, depending on what the investigation is.

I again knowing how thorough they are and having dealt with them, they would they would probably involve the tenant if if it was appropriate for the tenant to be involved.

If if this was purely a landlord issue, yeah, although we talk about criminal citations, you know, like when you talk about repairs and things like that.

Um, and I did have the opportunity to speak to some folks to some folks in St.

Albans about how well received this was, how effective they feel it's been.

Um a lot of it was centered around criminal activity, drug activity, and that's what they were looking to discourage.

Um I don't know what kind of conversation uh Mr.

Copping might have with someone who has been cited three times for you know possession of drugs, dealing drugs.

Uh I don't know what kind of conversation he'd have with that.

I I'm fine with it.

But like I said, they're they're usually pretty thorough in their investigation.

Yeah, and I totally understand that there may be situations where it's not appropriate to involve the tenant, but I do I guess I would hate to have a tenant not be involved in a process that might lead to the place that liberal rent being non-occupied at a future date.

So again, I said as I said, I don't really have like a good suggestion for the end language, but I'm wondering if there's something that could and I'm just scribbling here, maybe it's at the discretion of the code enforcement team, something something to that effect of.

You know, maybe for the second reading, if I might, I'd like to have uh Mr.

Coppic enforcement folks come in so that they get they can they can talk about how they see this as you know an additional resource um to solve problems in the city.

Yes.

Uh either council spalmer.

So uh my issue is the same issue I had last time we spoke about this, and I mentioned well you have the Tilde House and North Barry Manor.

Officer Chief Vale shook his head agreeing with me that there's a lot more going on in those two buildings and single out landlords.

Um I guess my issue is are they gonna be treated the same as a landlord?

This is remote housing authority, whoever owns those buildings.

I mean, you're talking large parcels with a lot of apartments, a lot of revenue, okay, but they have problems for a fact.

And instead of just concentrating, I mean, I've owned multiple apartment houses.

But uh you would think that the the bigger boy, like the Barry Housing Authority, probably not a good uh uh word, but uh are they gonna be treated the same?

I mean they would be subject to this ordinance.

And I would imagine I, you know, I I hear from, you know, we we talk about some of the issues that happen at Barry Housing Authority with their staff, and I know sometimes they're just as frustrated as we are that sometimes their hands are tied in terms of um what they can do with with problem tenant nuisance tenants.

And so I think I I would imagine that for an organization.

So let me just say number one that the St.

Albans ordinance applies to their equivalence, whatever their equivalent is, their ordinance applies to it.

So we would imagine that ours is drafted with that intent as well.

Um and I would imagine that for a tenant and a landlord like that who probably wants to be a more responsible landlord, that having the teeth of a nuisance abatement plan from the city of Barrie might be what they need to do some of those things and to enforce some of those things.

So you know, Barrie Housing Authority is one of the prime examples of where person associated with the problem, right?

It's it's not necessarily the residents, it's the people that are associating with some of the residents.

And so that might be enough of a hook to give Barry Housing Authority the ability to say John Smith is not cannot come in here anymore.

We have a nuisance abatement plan from the city of Barrie that says covers all that covers that so and so cannot be in this building.

And so to answer your basic question, counselor, it applies to them because that's what happened in St.

Albans.

And my hope would be that for uh you know, for someone who's for Barrie Housing Authority staff, which I know shares some of the frustrations, this might they might welcome they might welcome visits from us saying you can't do this anymore because it's a nuisance.

Um and and I hope that they see it that way.

Yes.

Um, so my question is uh I have a few questions, but along that same line, when you look at something like the Barrie Housing Authority, or you look at um the other properties that are multi-units, um, and you think about how many times citations and police calls happen.

Um, are we talking about like for a given tenant, a given map person in the that's or apartment that's being um because you know, if they're getting called to tilden house multiple times, but it's only because of this one tenant, or it's um you know uh what's green acres or high gate or something, and they're there's you know, there's fire, there's ambulance, there's they they're getting called there maybe for a variety of reasons, maybe all legitimate reasons except for this one particular unit, that's the problem.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, I think and the fire would be okay.

That's not criminal.

I well, I well, if I'm just saying, like I think we have to be careful about like property because a great point.

I I think that's a great point, Councillor Spawning.

And I I I went right to the definition, and I think um it's not adequate to capture that issue in the in the bigger um in the bigger units like Barry Housing, and and so I think um what I would say A is that this ordinance doesn't address that, so thank you for for making that point.

And B you know, my instinct would be to say that it is the it is unit based in those in those bigger places like North Barrie Manor, right?

Right.

So because you're right, we could probably trigger it every night.

That's what yeah, probably yeah.

So I would um I would explore language that talks about definition of a unit um for those larger buildings.

I think we might want to figure out a threshold because for um, you know, if you have a force a four-unit building where two of the tenants are problematic, you might not want to leave it to the unit level if there's that level.

It might maybe it's I don't know, and I don't know what the right unit level is.

I'd probably talk to to Janet and Nick about this, but maybe for units of six or more, it's at the unit level, you you know, six or less, it's at the property level.

I think we can find so I mean it's all discretionary.

So in other words, that mere so three or more um criminal citations triggers Mr.

Copping.

Mr.

Copping will be coming to see you.

But if our code enforcement and building uh inspection team looks at what you're doing, I mean, you know, let's face it, this is this is about criminal activity, mostly about drug activity and giving all of us an additional tool to either shine a light on these nasty little drug dealers because nasty little drug dealers don't like it when a light is shown on them, and that's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna ratchet it up.

So but it so if Mr.

Copping investigates it, and look, this landlord is trying to evict this tenant, but the tenant keeps paying their rent.

They write a check every month.

The landlord doesn't want them there.

They you know, they've been cited for they have four pending citations for drug possession and drug sales.

The landlord doesn't, and and I can tell you, as a landlord, it is frustrating.

Thankfully, I've never had and it can happen to anyone.

I've been fortunate enough to never have this sort of activity in a building that I own, and we've had one eviction in 35 years, you know, knock on wood.

Um but if Mr.

Copping determines that look, this landlord is doing everything they can do.

They want them out, they're asking them to leave.

Uh the building is well maintained, the building is secure.

There's nothing wrong with the building, it's just this tenant, you know, even with the no trespass orders, we're gonna struggle with that.

I can guarantee you, because in as much as I don't like bad landlords, I don't like bad tenants, I am a staunch advocate for property rights.

And if a tenant is renting from you, and you know, you can issue issue a no trespass order for any reason.

Now, obviously, you cannot discriminate against a protected class.

You couldn't say, Well, I don't like that person's race, so I don't want them coming in my building.

But you can actually say, I just don't like that person.

So I don't want them coming in my building, and you can trespass them.

However, if you're leasing that unit to a tenant, that tenant also has rights.

And if they say, Well, look, this is my home, and you know, and if I'm renting to Councilor Deering and I say, Counselor Deering, I don't like your sister.

I just don't like her, and she can't come in here.

You can look right at me and say, Well, I'm sorry, Tom, but you're wrong.

Because I like her, I'm paying rent, this is my home, and she's welcome here.

And guess what?

You're right.

So we're gonna struggle with that one.

But you know, I I look at all of this as a lot about this ordinance that makes me a little uncomfortable.

But at the end of the day, I trust our code enforcement team.

If I didn't, this thing wouldn't see the light of day as far as I'm concerned.

But I I trust them to be judicious and fair, like when you talk about the housing authority and you say, Well, are they gonna be treated the same?

Well, I hope not, because they're not the same.

Some of those buildings have 90 units in them.

They're not they're not the same as a duplex.

So uh, you know, the intent here isn't to be unfair to anyone other than those engaging in criminal activity, and the intent here is to let them know in no uncertain terms, we don't want you here.

You know, we we just don't want you engaging in criminal activity.

So um, you know, I I have a few, I'll give mine to you later.

You know, I had a few um concerns like I did question do we have subpoena authority?

You know, I said the last time we talked about this, you know, you talked about tenants, Counselor Gustin.

Well, if if the tenant is a drug dealing problem, I'd like to be able to subpoena the tenant.

I'd like to put them on camera and say, hey, well, okay, this is a person that's been cited three times.

And interestingly, when you talk about citing, like I said, there's a lot about this ordinance that bothers me, but I trust Nicholas, I trust our team, so I'm willing to give them the latitude.

A citation is not a conviction.

And in America, you are innocent until proven guilty.

So uh a cop writes three bogus citations, and all of a sudden this is triggered.

That's not quite fair.

Yes, Counselor.

So the I understand all that, and I I agree in with the main premise of the ordinance.

I just want to make sure that we're protecting good tenants, we're protecting good landlords, and we're protecting ourselves.

Yeah.

So um, so Mike's I I sent a bunch of questions to the city manager as well.

But um, a couple of things that I just want to make sure that we're not um that that well, one that I understand what you're saying, mayor.

I want us to be clear and not just leave it up to discretion, or as clear as we can be, I should say.

Um, I mean, obviously we can't rate every single instance.

Um, one of the things that I'm concerned about is um calls or um calls to us a property.

Um we know that there are exclusions already in there for domestic violence.

Um, but you know, I don't want people to not feel comfortable calling if there's a medical emergency.

I don't want them to think, oh gosh, we've already been we've already called twice.

If we call again, we're gonna get in trouble.

Like we have to have like something in there so that people understand, like you should still call the police when you need help, or you should still call fire in EMS when you need help.

Um and so I just want to make sure that that's clear.

And then um there were a few other things.

I just um was I'm mostly concerned about protecting people who are trying to do the right thing, landlords who are trying to do the right thing, and obviously us as a city, because I don't want us to get into any hot water either.

So yeah, I'm not uh I'm sorry, who had the hand of our uh I'm more of them.

Counselor.

Um so one suggestion would be uh you could put instead of uh a property, you could put uh per address, because for example, like at Green Acres, uh mine's 24 birds are on unit 13.

So if you get you know three citations uh for unit 13, then you know then that could trigger this.

Yep.

Um and the same thing at like Tilden or any of the other larger the density places, they all have a particular identifier uh with their address.

So you could interchange that um with the property, and it also helps with uh smaller buildings as well that have like apartment A or B.

Um so that was my kind of take on that.

Uh at least the first good suggestion.

Thank you.

That that could work, but do you do you get three?

Is it I mean, what's the intent?

And again, I'd have to I I didn't ask this question of uh our counterparts in St.

Albans, um whether there were certain properties, multi-unit properties where because if you think about it, um in order for someone, if you think about a particular apartment, in order for someone to receive three citations, that's the trigger, three tight citations in a 90-day period.

I mean, they'd have to be the dumbest drug dealer on the face of the earth.

Three citations in a 90-day period, that's you know, does that seem yeah remember three citations, not three points of contact.

Right.

Yeah, this so I I get where you're going, but you know, again, counsel, what I what I keep saying, and and where I've found my own comfort level with this is trusting the people that you work with.

And granted, it may be a little easier for me because I've I've worked with you know court enforcement for on on a professional level for 30 years.

And I and I know them to be fair uh in terms of you know how and and believe me, they certainly know who the bad landlords are.

They know, you know, I've spoken to them and they'll say, well, when I'm going to so-and-so's property, you know, I'm looking forward to that.

You know, I see that come up on my list, and I know I'm gonna be in and out of there.

I'm gonna go through those four units in about you know an hour and a half, and then another name pops up on my list, and I say, This is not going to be a good day.

And you know, so they know, so you know, again, it is it is about and listen, our police officers have the same you know, latitude.

If you're going 27 and a 25, they can certainly issue a warning.

If you're going 30 into 25, depending on the circumstances, they can issue a warning.

There are certainly crime certain crimes for which our police officers do not issue warnings, but they always, you know, they had that latitude in certain instances.

So like I said, my my question was under um was under section uh 26-5.

Just wanted to know if the council had subpoena authority if we have a hearing.

That's that's a uh and then where you talked about um under section uh E one and two or yeah, one and two um it it says if the property is a rental unit or commercial property, and then under two, it says if the property is a rental unit, owner occupied or commercial property.

Yeah, this was aren't they kind of the same or did you want to strike in the second one?

Did you want to strike or do you think you want to say if the property is an owner-occupied property?

Yeah, I think that's the and the rest of them.

I think this was a belt and suspenders thing, but I agree that it's clunky.

And it should just be owner-occupied.

It captures yeah it captures everything but owner-occupied in one, but then it captures everything in two.

Yeah, I I agree.

Um, and then uh under one, where we talked about um I'd like to see just a little bit of latitude there.

I I did it by simply saying uh where it says order the property owner to cause the property to cease being a public nuisance property, and to that end, order the property owner to perform necessary building or property repairs and maintenance, comma, possibly add lighting because again, in the when they come up with the plan, it doesn't give them any latitude.

It says you have to add lighting.

Yeah, well, what if it's first of all, what if it's a tenant issue, purely, you know, you get you got a drug dealing tenant.

That's the issue.

Well, I don't know how lighting is going to stop them from but it but they have no latitude to say, you know, and also even with security cameras, if you don't have Wi-Fi access, the technology is getting better, you know, with Starlink now.

But if you don't have Wi-Fi, if the owner doesn't have Wi-Fi access at the property, um, not every property adapts itself well to um surveillance cameras, and sometimes other tenants don't necessarily deserve surveillance cameras, you know, it's not you know, they're they're kind of not the issue.

So I thought just in one there, when you come up with the plan, give give give a little more latitude so that there's not a requirement to do certain things, and and it and Nick would have more latitude to say lighting isn't gonna help, or cameras aren't gonna, you know, this isn't gonna help.

The problem is that tenant, and until you get rid of that tenant, um you know, it's kind of interesting.

I spent some time with um, and I apologize for digressing a bit, but it's it's relevant.

Uh I spent some time with uh Lieutenant Governor John Rogers, and um we were having a discussion about legislation that they will be introducing relative to landlord tenant laws.

And this is in instances where you have a house where folks are there trying to maintain a they're recovering, they're in recovery and they're trying to maintain a life of sobriety.

And you have five or six people living there, and everyone's sobriety is really dependent upon everyone maintaining sobriety.

So you have one tenant who comes off the rails.

Um that not only puts obviously that tenant is at risk, but you've just put the other six or ten people who are there trying to maintain their sobriety, you've put them in imminent risk of not being able to maintain their sobriety.

So they're trying to streamline the eviction laws to say, no, you you can get them out really fast.

If you can, you know, we can fast track this, and if you can show that they're putting other people in harm's way because of their behavior, and it was interesting when he was telling me about that, and again, I I really respect tenant rights, I respect landlord rights, but it it you know, the situation at Highgate and Green Acres uh all summer long, Councilor Deering, I was frustrated, I was angry that you know, folks just want to raise their kids in you know, in peace, and they're not able to because you have one bad tenant out of 60 who is constantly dealing drugs.

And you know, so I'm hopeful when we when we get to the point in our program this evening where we talk about a few, you know, we kick off at least the legislative priority, we'll be having the big discussion later on, but um one of mine is not a whole lot of latitude for people who are you know dealing drugs in and I don't care if it's public housing, I don't care where it is, not a whole lot of latitude in terms of look, you've been cited or you've been convicted, time for you to go.

You know.

So, uh counsel, what would you like to do?

Some did you have some things too?

I have a few questions.

Yes, I just had something, you know, in all this discussion about um you know, I understand the drug issue concerns, but to um Councillor Spaulding's point about not frightening people about calling, is there is there a way that we can, you know.

I mean, somebody if there's an overdose, somebody should call.

You know, even if it's a drug, you know, it's a drug issue and it's an illegal over over so some kind of carve out that makes it clear that we're you know, we're really more interested in the people who are dealing drugs, you know, getting them out than we are necessarily.

And I mean, is it as long as it's not a situation of a group living home where everybody's sobriety depends on it on punishing people who are addicted?

Yeah, I I mean I agree, but just to be clear, calling for emergency services would not even calling the police.

I mean, you've got to have a citation.

So you know, we'd have to let people know that look, if your neighbor is dealing drugs and there are people in and out and and you want to call the police, I don't think you're, you know, I don't think a good landlord would be mad at you.

A good landlord would feel a level of responsibility, and straight up, there are bad landlords who own property in Barrie City.

And you know, so if we have to call that landlord on the carpet a little bit and say, look, you're gonna work with us or work with the other tenants, you have a responsibility to them.

I'm I'm not a whole lot sympathetic.

And again, I I just trust our enforcement team to do the right thing.

They they know the difference between a good actor and a bad actor.

They know the difference between someone who is sincere and someone who will rent to anyone to make a buck.

And for those of us, you know, who have rented property in the past.

I mean, there have been instances where you know, I've shown an apartment and a tenant has said, Well, I pay in cash.

Is that okay?

And I say, Well, you know, normally we'd we'd like to, if you want to do it that way, we can just sweep money from your bank account.

You know, we can do it EFT.

Uh, no, I pay in cash, and then you give them a little contact information sheet so that they can fill out where do you work?

Well, I don't work.

And then you're looking at a 40,000 dollar Mercedes with blacked out windows, and I just look at them and say, I'm just not comfortable continuing this.

Sorry.

Uh, and they throw they always threaten to sue you, and I just say, Bring it.

I got people waiting.

Uh, it's I I just trust them to I trust our enforcement team to do the right thing and to not, and we certainly don't want people to not call if you're a victim, if you're feeling threatened, if you're a landlord and you need help, that's not the purpose.

Nick is not going to do that to you.

We let's assume that it's not Nick, it's someone who's not Nick like work.

We are we, as the city council, we do call the shots here.

We're not going to, Nicholas is not going to let them do that to someone who's being victimized, someone who needs help.

We're here to help.

You know, but we got to have the tools to do something.

Amy, did you have a question or a comment?

Yeah, I was just wondering um trying to think through how it's affects neighbors.

So in the part where it's defining the property where things go wrong, it talks about a 200-foot radius.

And in some parts of the city, we have such small lots, um, either and all dimensions are one dimension that um 200 feet like goes on to a lot of other lots.

And then there's the other section where it talks about um adjoiners, and that seems more like it's about um adjacent property owners.

So those are like two different ways of measuring kind of neighbors who are involved in something.

So I don't I don't have an exact question or answer, but I'm just wondering how to best think about um which name, like what the radius of where things are happening.

Um, if someone's standing on their neighbor's property misbehaving or whatever, and then there's also the kind of who gets involved in the hearing process.

So I I don't know um like where the came from, or I'd be interested in the logic on that.

And then my other question was just um, you know, we have other um kind of nuisance ordinances for things like um trash and vacant buildings and you know, junk vehicles and that kind of stuff.

Uh does that kind of problems from those filter into this process too?

They're part of the count of creating a nuisance.

Um yes, they those just to answer your last question first, yes, they could.

The code of ordinances is the last um is is in the nuisance property definition.

Um the 200 feet issue is related to a person associated with that property.

So for example, if if um, you know, if somebody is is being a nuisance um at your house, Amy.

Um but uh you know they're they're associated with your house, but they're creating a nuisance at your neighbor's yard.

The citation still ties to your property.

Does that make sense?

So it's it it's it's sort of the idea being that they're either uh an owner, tenant um or or a visitor of of a particular household, and they are cited for one of the nuisance behaviors, and if they do that, you know, if you get you know, that would count as a citation if they're associated with you because you invited them over, or they're your relative, or something to that effect that answer your question, Amy.

I guess it did.

Yeah?

I I think so.

Um I'm kind of thinking through it.

Yeah, I mean, the two thing that does lose well.

Um like just picturing a 200 foot radius and thinking about how neighbors and partly I was thinking that people people in that radius might have input or an interest in a hearing, and then also like in that 200 foot radius, it kind of gets at the discussion you had earlier about how to deal with um like multi um you know, multi-unit buildings, in particular where those are kind of dense, like anyway.

I would have to think about that more exactly.

I don't I don't have a well-defined question there, but it's it's two different ways of measuring who the neighborhood is.

Council Spockling runs a tight ship where tenants won't even dare litter, uh so they walk 195 feet off the property and and do their thing there.

Well, okay, wait a minute, that landlord is doing the right thing.

It is clearly not a landlord issue because they don't dare step out of line on that property, they go down to the corner playground and do their business there.

And I can show you places in very where it happens.

So like I said, this is this is a work in progress, counsel.

And it's clear from you know, Nicholas has been furiously writing.

Um and we will get um we've got a little bit more to work to do on this.

But what I haven't heard from the council is look, we just don't like it.

You know, we we we just don't we don't want to give code enforcement, law enforcement, we don't want to give them these tools.

You the concerns that you're raising are all legitimate concerns, but I think we can address them as we go through the process.

So we'll continue the questions or comments that you have, but then this is a very I hope you can move it to a second reading.

Yeah, uh I think generally a lot of questions, but I'll look forward to the second reading to very briefly.

Um the mention or the description of the council hearing as a quasi-judicial hearing.

Um I know in other situations in which we do quasi-judicial hearings as a city board of abatement, for example, we have to adopt rules of procedure about the very specific ways in which those are carried out and they're adopted within the sort of confines of that quasi-judicial hearing.

So I'm just wondering if that should be sort of described or inserted into here.

And I don't think it needs to go into ordinance.

Those are the kinds of things we have a there's a standard template for, and we adopted at the time of the hearing, but I think that in order to communicate very clearly what actually happens at those hearings, we should look out to that.

Great flag, and I will also this was straight from the St.

Albans ordinance, so this is something I can check in with my colleagues.

And and one note I I flagged in rereading it today also was there's no timeline on on your decision council.

So I was gonna suggest maybe you get 14 days unless you want to do it all in one night.

Um but following the conclusion of the hearing, the ordinance as drafted doesn't say by when you must issue a decision.

Um it just says after the hearing, but maybe we want to put some time periods.

I mean, there's got to be some sort of reference to some rule of procedure.

There's got to be a rule of procedure somewhere that could govern and you could just say, like, you know, like Robert's rules.

We you know, we maintain our meetings in accordance with Robert's rules, so there could be something similar for the hearing that this is how you'll, you know, you'll maintain records, take testimony, and and by when you need to issue a decision.

Yes, Council Followers.

Question for you about um, you know, in this we talk about if we get to the quasi.

Well, okay, first I'm gonna back up.

Is the quasi quasi-judicial hearing um in public or in executive session?

Uh I I would have I assumed it was in public.

It doesn't say, but I think we should make it we should be clear about what we should do based on our attorney's recommendations.

That's a that's a great question.

I had assumed I I shouldn't have assumed, but I I viewed it as a public hearing like other quasi they tend to be public.

So I've been in quasi-du judicial hearings and those have all been executive sessions.

So I just in my head I was thinking executive session, but this may not fall under that.

Dealing with minors is a little bit well and that might be part of it.

A little different deal.

My other question is about um if part of the heart of what we're trying to get to is absentee landlords, because that feels like some of what we're trying to get to.

Um is there a requirement?

And I I apologize, I don't know this.

Is there a requirement that absentee landlords, people who are not local have to have a property manager?

Yes.

They do.

They have to have a they have to have a local representative, they have to have someone in you know, and it doesn't apply to me, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to it, but they have to have someone either they can be in the city in half an hour, something where they're local.

Yeah, like if they live in California, well, you gotta have someone, you've got to have some sort of management representative who if Nick Copping says, look, I've got fire detectors going off down here and I need someone here now.

Yeah, um, they gotta come.

So you do have to appoint someone.

So that would be who we would expect to show up to these hearings.

Uh this is this is property owner.

I assume the property owner could send a representative just like property owner could send an attorney and say, you know, I choose not to attend.

That's why I asked about subpoena authority, so that if we said, you know, this is pretty serious.

Looking at the weight of the evidence, um, we think it would be in the property owner's best interest to be here, and we think it would be a mistake for them to send a representative.

Can we subpoena them and say, well, now you have to come here?

Or in the case of the criminal tenant or criminal landlord.

Can we get the criminal?

Can we subpoena the criminal or the charged or the convicted?

Can we subpoena them and say, no, you're not slinking out of this.

We want to we want to see you.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think I just we need to be clear about what we our expectations.

Like I said, it's it's uh I certainly recognize counsel.

It is a work in progress.

But um and the one quite interestingly, the one question I didn't ask my counterpart in St.

Albans, have you ever had a hearing?

Yeah, that's as I'm sitting here.

I'm like, I never thought to ask that question.

If they have you ever had a hearing and how did it go and what was the outcome?

So um happy to answer more questions.

Council, whatever you would like to do.

Um, but if you're so inclined, uh if someone is so inclined to make a motion in a second, uh we will move this on to a second reading.

So moved.

Thank you.

Is there a second, please?

Second.

Thank you.

It's moved and seconded.

Is there any other discussion?

And please feel free to take your time if you have more questions.

But I got a feeling we'll have time for a lot more questions.

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Thank you very much.

Motion carries.

Uh Council, we'll move on to item 8 C on the agenda.

Uh, this is the flood resiliency plan.

Councilor Gustin.

Absolutely, thank you, Mayor.

Uh all right.

So small but vital one this evening.

Um, while the manager's calling up the PowerPoint.

This is an update on the public safety building access.

Uh one of our lessons learned from the 23 flood is that uh when the flood is bad enough, our emergency vehicles can't get out to Main Street to do their job and uh be safe.

So we moved in uh improving emergency access.

Uh this has actually been in referenced in a couple of other hazard mitigation plans and has been a priority project for a little while.

So we moved it on to actionable with the most recent update of the flood plan.

And the manager has update this evening.

Thank you, Councilor Gustin.

Yeah, so this is um slide one here just tells you the exact text from the uh plan.

Uh and then this council gustin mentioned that this became um uh a very big priority after we our experiences in 23, particularly and in 24, um, where we were uh the the public safety building became uh an island uh and it just became really difficult to uh to get materials we needed in and out of there.

Um we had staff, uh dispatch staff who very bravely um stayed in the building and and protected it, and they they they were stuck there as well.

Um and so having this public access has been a big priority for us, and we are very happy with the update today to be able to show that it is nearly nearly done.

Um the project uh in the timeline of the work was to be completed by DPW staff, um, and the construction sequence was as follows.

And and this the timing was great when we we set the schedule for these, and it worked out great that we were done the week that it's it's happening.

Um so tree clearing began this week and that was completed.

Stump removal um began uh this uh the week before that, I believe, and that was uh or right after that, and that was completed as well.

We installed a culvert uh up there, and the road shaping uh was also done the uh this uh this last week, actually.

Um we will be um doing a little bit more uh gravel road surface installation in the spring, uh depending on when we can get up there.

And then finally, I didn't list it on here, but we will also be installing a gate um at the top, and we do hope to get to that um by uh in the next couple of weeks.

Um, because the the idea is that I just want to be very clear that this is only an emergency access.

We don't expect to be using this road on a daily basis.

This is not gonna be used by the police or fire department to get you know to to sort of as a shortcut up that hill.

Um this is really only for emergency uh use, and so it will be gated off unless it is it is needed.

Hopefully, we never need to use that gate.

We will be plumbing it.

Okay, yeah.

Um, drivers can have to open the gate.

Yeah.

So I guess we will have to open it, unfortunately.

This is just the aerial overhead um of where this is this is all going in.

Um as I think we all know too well, uh, North Main Street was just impassable during, especially during 23, and that meant that we couldn't get in or out of um of the public safety building, and our dispatch staff were were were stuck there while they were where they were performing their their vital functions uh meant we had to do a little bit creative uh work to get uh to fire department equipment that's stored in the building, uh, et cetera.

So this is just that red line's a visual of roughly where that road uh has gone in.

And this is some visuals of of the work happening last week.

Um this is the first pictures of you.

You can see the uh the asphalt there from the edge of the parking lot of the public safety building looking up the hill.

Um you can see the culvert uh that was installed uh and the the turn, the the right turn up to the um to the top there uh and the the grading that's going on.

So this is uh already you know drivable if needed.

Um like I said, they're gonna do some work in the spring to uh tidy it up.

Uh and uh we I I guess the uh the other thing I would add here um should have mentioned is um not to uh not to harp too much on FEMA uh, but we applied for this project to be a mitigation project.

We think it's fits a mitigation value to be able to access public safety building uh in an emergency.

Uh and FEMA didn't see it that way.

Um so they were going we we bid this work out.

Uh it was gonna cost us 45,000 to do this road, and we said forget that our guys will do it.

And so um, you know, obviously there's always an opportunity cost, right?

That they could have been doing something else for a week.

Um, but I think this was a good use of their time.

Uh and I think unfortunately um it highlights some of the frustrations we all feel with FEMA, which is you know, this seemed like a pretty slam dunk mitigation project that they didn't see that way.

Um nonetheless, our very able crews were able to take care of this, and uh we're very happy that uh this one I I think almost almost at the point of checking off the list, maybe once we get that gate up there.

Um but uh yeah, the crews did a great job getting this done.

When I was in my youth, that was our major sliding trail.

Uh yes, gosh.

Now they've just smoothed it out for you.

Yeah, much faster than that.

Come down and all of us would be on the sides and we'd all wreck one person and turns.

But that was the major when I saw that I couldn't believe it.

That's where we used to do that.

I remember the grade being a lot steeper when we were kids, but yeah, well, they're not you were a lot smaller.

That's true.

Yeah, it seems like a pretty steep grade, but it's really not no, it's tricky.

It should nice job.

He did a good job.

I did a great job too.

That's that's fantastic.

I wonder if you could explain the note on the previous slide that said the fire vehicles will still require repositioning.

Yes.

Um, yeah, so the the um the idea also is that um we would probably uh we would we would deploy to the auditorium in the case of a severe emergency, right?

Where you know we're talking 23 scope.

Um the idea would be make a decision to get out to the auditorium um when we could.

This is gonna be passable for um some of our utility trucks.

This is gonna be passable for our police department cruisers, um, maybe an ambulance.

Um this is not, you know, this is the idea is not that we would really remain based at the public safety building um for some of the the bigger fleet, like a fire truck, the engine's gonna have a hard time making this turn up there.

Um so the idea is we we still have to make a decision to get everything out of harm's way.

Um this is gonna allow the staff to get back in for equipment for gear that they store there.

This is gonna allow the cruisers down um if they need to, and then of course the fire department has utility vehicles that they'll be able to to drive in and out to haul things that they need.

So um so yeah, unfortunately, you know, the idea is in a 23 situation, still probably have to set up some uh footprint at the auditorium, but um we will have we we won't lose the access that we that we lost a couple years ago.

So thank you.

Perfect.

Any yes?

Uh so just so just I just I want to confirm what I'm looking at.

It it um spits out into the parking lot of the North Barrie School.

Okay.

Yes, correct.

Yeah, and we we talked to the owner before doing this, obviously, because we'll need to use their their property as well to get in and out.

And uh very very accommodating um to help us make this happen.

Um it's just those two, it's our property and their property.

That's it.

That's impacted.

Okay.

Yes.

Final question.

I know we've already got a ribbon cutting plan for DPW, but could we do a ribbon cutting when the road is done?

Absolutely.

The more the better.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Any other questions, Council?

Okay, thank you very much.

And council will move on to item 8D on the agenda.

This is discussing the fiscal year 27 budget survey.

You did have last year's budget survey in your packet, Council.

Mr.

Manager.

It's all yours.

Okay.

I think I could also be able to display as well.

It might be easier for people online to see it.

Survey.

There it is.

So yes, thank you.

Last year, um, I'm not sure if the city had done it before, certainly first time in my tenure that we did a budget survey.

Um I thought it was um I thought it was helpful to get uh a pulse of where people were, um, get a pulse of um uh resident priorities um and what what people valued um you know over what what things they valued over other things that that we may not be able to afford.

Um so I I think it's a it's a great idea to do uh another survey.

Um we would um love to get this out in the uh next couple weeks just to have as much time out there for the survey as possible.

Um and I I think there were certainly some surprises last year when we got the results, some things that uh ranked higher than others in terms of you know when we asked people to choose amongst a litany of services what they ranked higher versus lower.

Certainly some some things I didn't expect.

Um so I think it's it's valuable to see get a sense of where residents are, get their temperature, um, maybe change some questions around to see if there were you know if there's things that we can ask better, uh things maybe we want to change.

Um so overall, just uh curious to hear your feedback on I I I imagine most everyone's interested in doing this again.

I think really the feedback I'm looking for is um is when is is it any qu any changes to the questions that you would like to uh to have us draft up.

Um the other thing I'll just add very quickly is I've been working with Christina Christina will be here at the next council meeting to give you a year to date update on the budget.

I'll be your first chance with her uh to talk on the numbers.

Uh and then she and I have uh scoped out the uh budget uh development timeline um and we expect to get this going right at the first meeting in January, um, a little bit earlier than last year.

Um and and so basically from from January through April, this will be obviously the big focus, which is one of the reasons we want to get this out in the field now.

Um we wouldn't expect to have results back for the first budget um meeting that that the council does, um, but certainly would want it back early enough in the process that it can inform uh your deliberations as well.

So as I said, really um, you know, the I put this in the in the packet as a reference to what we asked last year.

Uh really want to hear uh from you, council, is if if there's anything we should change, um, and if we can do it in a way that's um that we can that works within the software we use.

So there's there's really the the only thing that I noted, and I I don't know why I didn't notice it last year, although we developed it earlier.

There's nothing in here about flood mitigation.

I'm just gonna say that.

Like zero.

Yeah, I was gonna say that.

And and there's so much we could say about flood mitigation because there, you know, there are a lot of different type uh projects, and you know, we actually have a list of I believe ten or so that almost run neck and neck in terms of you know, in terms of okay, what order I mean, some are obviously a higher priority than others, but then there are others where it's kind of six, you know, you want to get them all done, but there are projects, probably at least five I can think of that are that are sort of six of one half dozen of the other.

There's none that you know it's like it's it's hard with these five projects to um oh look, Bernie Sanders.

Um he called me earlier.

Yeah, yeah, no.

Um so if we could just and maybe work with Councilor Gustin on this because is uh, you know, just come up in maybe even a whole section where we're we're not necessarily asking you to make budgetary decisions, but we'd like to know how you feel about different flood mitigation projects and or what the city's done to date for flood.

You know, we have done some buyouts, we are doing, you know, we we we completed this project.

How do you feel about the cities completed these projects?

How do you feel about that?

Right.

You know, I like it, I want you to do more, waste of money, don't do any more.

Uh I just like to know.

Perfect.

Yeah.

So maybe even I don't know, maybe even a like I said, it doesn't really have to do with the budget, but as long as you've got people on the hook and getting their opinions.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I would so my initial thought in response to the survey was that I think it's still pretty good.

What I would be interested in seeing as an addition, and this might dovetail nicely into questions about flood resiliency, is I was kind of tossing in my head the idea of a question of I would pay more in taxes to invest in this.

Like a deliberate because our questions right now are about cutting.

Like think about cutting this, but I would be curious what a question of, yeah, I'd be totally okay with paying a little more on your the sections could be roads, flood resistance.

Well, we're doing 150,000 a year.

We're doing 150,000 more in roads this year, and we're not really gonna have a vote on it.

It's just gonna it's just gonna have we need to.

Yeah, but it could the answer either could surprise us or could reaffirm that that what we're doing there, but I would be curious to to ask people to think expansively instead of contracting.

Yep, I agree.

No, I think that's those are all good uh suggestions.

So yes.

Yeah, I I on that um topic, I'd like to see some questions about investing in an in a walkable downtown.

Because we we had that you know um interesting event with the people the city planner, people who were looking at the downtown area.

A lot of good ideas about infill and development and other ways to do that.

I'd like to see something like that.

Yes.

I just have a question about the actual survey itself.

The first question, um, which are the following statements, are you only allowed to answer one questi answer check one box?

Uh I believe so.

Yeah, yeah, because it's best described.

Yeah, and I think the the form we use, I believe only allow.

Well, you know what?

I might be able to change that.

I'm just curious if we if you know someone who can do check here and also owns a business here or works here, would be interesting to know, like, oh, you work here and you live here and you pay for like um and then my other question about how do you get city news alerts?

I'm assuming that's also uh like you can check multiple boxes.

Yes, that that is one we can do, yeah.

And that's why I I realize now we can do multiple checks on the first question.

I think the only issue the way the data spits out is not super great.

I think I shared it with you last year, it's really not user-friendly.

Did you want to it may we may I think one reason I may have done the first question this way so we could get an actual count of who was a resident who wasn't?

Yeah, and I don't know if we can get that with the check boxes, but I'll look into it.

Okay.

If we can, then that's I think that's a good question.

Yeah, I agree on the city news.

We could do because what if so if you asked me to answer the question, I'd check them all.

Yeah, yeah.

But I still have to do that.

So and and you're really looking at maybe what is your preferred method to receive um updates?

Yep.

Or how would you receive an update?

How would you receive a message from the city most quickly?

And if most people check Facebook, you're like, okay, we got to do more work on regroup.

Yep.

Who also would tell us though?

Yes, counselor.

I slightly disagree with that argument, only because when you have all of those, you then can pinpoint like so you know, like if it's a hundred and ten people for regroup and a hundred and uh five for social media, so you know, so you just kind of know what your people are actually accessing as opposed to what's your preferred method is.

So, for example, like you, Mr.

Mayor, you access all of those.

But for example, somebody that lives at home, you know, will just shut in, they maybe only get the newspaper.

Right.

So they'll select that.

So then you'll be able to know what the wide variety of folks that are getting the the outlet in our community, or maybe people really don't get that wide variety like you do.

Yeah.

But it's more asking them, well, what's your preferred method?

Um, you know, because there's a lot, and when you think about the city, well, actually, Vermont Alerts, we don't, you know, that doesn't take staff time, we don't do that.

Right.

Um, but if you think about regroup, take staff time, website, take staff time, social media, take staff time, newspaper, take staff time.

Seems like you could get um both pieces of data if you just simply added to the you know, after this question, which you know, which method do you like best?

Right.

That that was right, and that was my the second question, which is what is your preferred method.

Right.

You know, so you currently you have the ability to do it, you know, like I have personally, my preferred ability is text messages from the city.

Because if it's more urgent, I chan tend to, you know, I get a lot of emails, I get a ton of emails, but I really try to limit the text messages.

Um so when a text message comes through, I'm more apt to check that quickly than I'm not as apt to check email as quickly.

Amy, did you have a question or a comment?

Yeah, um I do see flood resilience projects in there in one of the survey questions.

Um it is there on page 43 of the packet I'm looking at.

It's near like traffic calming equipment, I think like so it may have been in there.

But actually what I was gonna suggest is um I wondered somewhere in there, maybe in current being next to the budget category is when it's asking about things that continue to fund or consider cutting.

Could there be any easy way or room to lift like what the current budget amount is?

Because like I don't I don't know what some of these things cost.

So how to evaluate them relative, like I don't I don't know if you know you might suggest cutting something because it's really expensive or because it's small or whatever, like that might affect people's judgment.

And I know I could probably look it up somewhere.

Um if it's if it's easy to give a rough idea of like is this a million dollar item as a thought, ten thousand dollar item or something.

Yeah, yeah, we can add that.

Yeah.

And yes.

Just very not even really related to the survey, but oftentimes they send you to a final screen.

Thanks for taking the survey.

Could we put here's how to sign it for a regroup messages on that?

I think we did that last year.

Okay, yes, yes, thank you.

Yeah.

And on the on the final page too.

Yes, um, I think it might be helpful to say, is there anything that we didn't ask?

We think we should uh there's a couple last questions.

Okay, good.

Um I think we discussed this last year, but we didn't limit the number of we just assume people were going to only take it one time, right?

Yeah, because we well, and because we didn't want to like if someone decided to take it at the library, for instance, because they don't have a computer.

Right.

So we we were just saying we're just hoping everyone is honest and not we can't go you know, I mean, you could let me do the survey on your computer with your IP address, and I could do it on mine, and I get two surveys, so to speak.

But I mean, you really got to work at it.

So if somebody wants to work that hard, fine, you can game it a little bit.

And I I would encourage everyone, I think we only got 300 some responses last year.

I think we can do a lot better than that.

Um and so I think to the extent we can encourage people in our own networks and get the word out about it.

Ironically, we should send out through regroups, you'll see what happens.

Um, but yeah, I I because now we're over a thousand on regroup.

So hopefully if everyone on regroup does it, we would beat that number.

Um, but yeah, it was only it was I I would say the only negative thing to the extent there was one was just the lack of participation that it was only, I believe, in around 300 people who wasn't horrible considering for first time.

Yeah, you know, I mean it you know, one other question that I I really think hard about how to ask this question.

Um, but a lot of times, you know, you ask yourself, um, okay, what am I doing really well?

Uh what am I doing well and what do I stink at?

And you know, I don't know if we could work some sort of question, in other words, it's not necessarily budget related, but it could be uh you mentioned the walkable downtown, you know.

You look, the city's not working hard enough at quality of life crimes in a walkable downtown, or the city's not working hard enough at um paving streets, or the city, you know, whatever, whatever it might be.

And there could be things that people say, well, but here are some things that I really like about Barry.

Um, you know, you're always gonna get when you leave an open-ended question, you're always gonna get people who scream lower property taxes.

Same people who are saying, why don't you pave the streets?

Well, okay, well, we can I'm sitting here saying I want to see another hundred and fifty thousand dollar alloc additional allocation to the paving budget.

We need to get it back up to that three quarters of a million dollar mark, probably closer to a million over the next two to three years.

So, but I think those are still, you know, I I think about it, and I think for the most part, there are always a smart alex who take the survey.

Most people are really sincere.

You know, that they're doing their best and they're trying to so um, but I'd like to, if you think about it, I I just like to ask those sort of sorts of questions.

What do you think we're doing well?

And what do you think we we're doing well, but we really need to do more of the question?

I I would just on the subject of getting more people, I'd love to see us set a goal of 10% of city residents to about 850 responses.

I think would be a really good idea.

And then I'd like to see a I don't know if it's possible to do this.

I'd love to see a separate survey go out to the high school.

That would be fine.

They may have much different priorities, but and I get that.

So sometimes when you sit in front of a certain group of people, they have very different priorities.

And but it doesn't mean that their priorities are unimportant.

But you like to, you know, there's a lot of elderly people in Barrie.

I'd like to hear from our seniors and say, well, what are some of your concerns?

I uh you know, I really can't afford my taxes, and then maybe we do a better job at outreach saying, well, wait a minute, we have a robust property tax stabilization uh program in the firm in the form of the property tax rebate, the statewide property tax rebate for program.

You can't be paying more than five percent of your adjusted gross income.

So why how are how do you feel you're being priced out of your home?

And you start having those conversations with folks.

So yeah, so I I love the idea of the survey.

I mean, that's sort of our our theme once we get to new business.

That's sort of our theme with um going around in different wards and starting up these wards ward meetings and having conversations uh with people about what's going on in their city and in particular what's going on in their neighborhood, because like I said, the perspectives are often different.

Awesome.

Anything else, council, that you'd like to see in there?

We're looking to get this out.

What's our drop-dead date on this?

So we can manager we uh our next council meeting is the ninth.

I can come back with a you know, sort of a polished draft for you all to look at on the ninth.

Whenever you but if it's later than that, I mean budget you know when you get into budget season.

So yeah, so the first budget meeting for the council will be sort of that baseline meeting on January 6th.

Right.

Um so we if we issue it on the 10th.

I think the the way and I'll bring the the the schedule that sort of Christina and I had developed.

I think the the we were hoping to have a discussion and the survey results for you um at our last meeting in January.

That way the February March meetings could be um could could incorporate the feedback from the survey.

So I think uh we come back to you with a polished survey on December 9th, we can go ahead and issue it on December 10th.

That'll give people uh more than a month to uh fill it out.

Perfect.

Bernard Maroon, did you have a question or comment?

Yes, thank you.

Um how about if we ask people if they want to give us their email addresses, and when they fill out the uh the survey, they can be entered in a raffle, and then we'll pick a person and they can take one of the golden shovels when you have your golden shovel day in April.

We could do that.

I'm just thinking you're gonna be able to do it.

Or it could be lunch with the manager or something like that.

He never buys he never buys.

So why you'll have to bring some more money.

I just um so often people don't participate in surveys uh because they go, well, what good is it?

Nobody really cares what I have to say, or um something that uh I mean it's important to you all and it's important to me.

Um but what uh gets people to do and participate in something like that.

And I thought if we could think of something fun to put on the other end, that was just my thought.

Anyway, that's a great idea.

Thank you.

We'll I think we'll take you up on that.

We'll figure out a way to create.

Can each completed survey create like a unique ID that that it prints out at the end saying you've been entered, you know, you've been entered in this, you completed the survey.

Thank you.

You've been entered in this.

This is your number, and we're gonna randomly generate a matching number.

I don't know if it can do that.

Um if we do, we would probably need to get us some sort of contact information, but we could make it optional.

Yeah.

So if people don't want to enter, then they don't have to do that.

So yeah, if they want to enter.

Yeah, yes.

One last question.

Um can we at that last page that said thank you for taking the survey, make sure you sign up for regroup.

Do you want to be entered?

Blah, blah, blah.

Could we also say please check back to this link and have a link that will have more budget information to make sure that they like they know where to go, they know where they're I don't I mean, I don't know.

I just I want people who are not necessarily tuning in to city council meetings, not necessarily reading the paper to recognize that there's a place that they can go on the city website.

Is there a place they can go to the website?

There is a place on that, yeah.

We can certainly just to sort of like help them to know, like, okay, do you want to find out what happened?

Do you want to find out how the budget is going?

What check back?

Absolutely.

Yeah, we can we can send that, we can put that on the landing page.

Yeah.

Link it, link it to our budget website.

And you could also send out the link in the in regroup.

Yes, that will do.

If everyone in regroup responds, that should be over a thousand responses.

Yeah, no, I'm just thinking that would be more information.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Uh anything else, Council?

Okay, then we'll move on to upcoming business.

Um, so as I mentioned, Councilor Gustin, you want to grab this one?

Absolutely, thank you.

So we had talked a little bit at previous council meetings, um, both in the general idea of finding ways to get out and uh learn from different communities in Barrie City and talk to folks, and then more specifically.

Uh we had talked a little bit about talking to uh merchants and other people in our downtown.

Uh and so thanks to some support from Tracy Lewis and the Barrett Barry Partnership.

We have set uh next Tuesday morning, 8 a.m.

to 10 a.m.

This is Tuesday, the 20.

Oh no, four.

Twenty five five, thank you.

25th.

Um 25th at the Barrie Social Club in the back part.

There will be breakfast items, coffee and tea, and would invite folks to give us feedback uh about the downtown, um, what we can what we as council could do to help support both the thriving business and um residents of the downtown, thriving uh downtown community, and also any concerns uh that folks have.

And also uh it's sort of I'm thinking of it as like the top of the roller coaster that leads to the holiday season for all of our downtown folks.

So uh hoping they also feel deeply appreciated uh as small business owners and contributors to our community and our local economy and come by and have some uh breakfast food and sit down and and feel heard and seen uh with their ideas and their concerns.

So to repeat, 8 a.m.

to 10 a.m.

Tuesday, November 25th at the Barrie Social Club in their back room.

Yeah, and we will be warning that council just just for kicks.

Well, normally, like if if it was the Barry partnership doing it, I wouldn't, but because we're this is a council initiative.

I feel like, you know, if there are a number of counselors there, we're the ones who called the meeting.

So we will be warning it just you know, yeah.

We'll warn it to keep us on the right side of everything and then we'll be go ahead.

I'm sorry, just that it'll have to be a special meeting.

The idea is not that we're all sitting behind a table waiting for people to come, but rather that we are having one-on-one thoughtful conversations with folks, reflecting and listening.

Yeah, we'll just warn it so that if we get into a discussion and there's a back and forth amongst a quorum of the council if there happens to be a quorum there, Morgan.

Then no one can argue that we were discussing city business without a warn meeting.

So no big deal.

And then we'll continue that meeting.

We'll be looking throughout budget season to in our off weeks to sort of you know, do in the north end what we did uh down at the Mutwa Club.

So maybe they'd be kind enough to host us again, and we could do something in the north end, we could do something, not sure where we do it if we were, you know, we might have to do it here because um there's really not well the meeting place, the history center.

Board two.

They all just abroad one, uh history centers in ward two.

Yeah, and so we could do spawning high school and ward one and you know, sort of take the show on the road a little bit and talk to a little bit, promote the survey, encourage people to complete the survey, and also just get a sense sometimes through a very quick five-minute conversation, you get a much greater sense of how people are feeling than uh even through a survey.

So we'll be doing that as well.

And from my I don't know from my showroom too.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, that that could work up in ward one.

I mean, we don't we could do more than one.

So um thank you for that.

Uh and then lastly, uh council, we'll be talking about legislative priorities uh at our next council meeting.

Um, you know, that's that's really important.

Please come to that meeting armed with um with some ideas.

Uh you know, we we are going to be having uh a team that I assume the council will uh approve a team at the legislature uh monitoring legislation that is near and dear to the city's heart and important to our viability.

Uh I assume that's gonna be your recommendation again this year.

So it's worked really well for us.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh you know, it's important.

Things move so quickly in the legislature.

And you know, fortunately with the mayor's coalition, we have, but you know, we have a good group of people who will call me regularly and say, you know, so and so is taking testimony today, and it wasn't even necessarily on the agenda, or uh, you know, so and so is down here dissing Barry, and you better get you better get down here and straighten them out.

Um, you know, one of the big things that I'm gonna be looking for is some sort of regional.

I've been thinking a lot about flood mitigation, a little bit of a play on our on the conversation we had uh at the last council meeting, Councillor Gustin, which was um a more of a regional approach on flood mitigation.

You know, we're three square miles here in Barrie City.

There is once water reaches our city, there's there's not a whole lot we can do to mitigate at a certain point.

But we can do a lot to mitigate um by regulating those municipalities, and it would mean some sort of contribution, some sort of regional approach where the municipalities that are sending the water to Barrie City as we're building up and those and not just Barrie City, other municipalities as well.

Montpelier, uh Berlin, it doesn't matter, but we've got to take more of a regional approach.

This this, you know, every every town or and city for him or herself approach just isn't gonna work.

Uh even to the point where I'll say, look, if Barrie City had to buy um had to buy land in Berlin for a flood mitigation project, tax-free, always.

Not even not even a question about it.

Uh and maybe the regional approach, they have to contribute on some level.

So gonna be looking for that, obviously gonna be looking for housing initiatives.

Um we got a long ways to go in the court system in terms of accountability and and just getting rid of this backlog.

Um, you know, landlord tenant, we talked a little bit earlier this evening about landlord doing better with landlord and tenant laws.

I think for me it's all about accountability.

I mean, all the way around.

When you talk about the criminal the justice system, you know, accountability, our you know, our obligation to neighbors who are unhoused.

Well, it's all about accountability.

Um so that's sort of I'm gonna be talking a lot about that uh during this legislative session.

And other than that, council.

Well, we'll if there's nothing else for yes.

Oh, just one update, Mayor.

Um next meeting.

Uh also very excited.

In addition to Christina doing a year to date and your first chance to to talk to her numbers.

Um Carly, Larry, and Matt, our assessing team will be here to do to update you on, give you sort of a uh an update on the reappraisal process that's ongoing.

Uh there's gonna be a lot going on in the next year.

Um wanna educate everyone, uh, everyone on the on the dais, everyone watching about sort of what to expect from the process.

So very excited that they'll be here, the experts to be able to sort of walk you through um what we'll be going through uh in the next year.

Oh that's fantastic.

Yes.

And well, and just a uh preview for the next meeting as well.

The manager and I had set that as uh one of the flood resiliency plan priorities is to improve our support of our city staff and make sure that we are we have the right staff in the right places to be doing the flood resiliency work that we need to, and we thought that would tailor beautifully with the beginning of a budget conversation.

So that will be our next flood resiliency plan.

We need more.

Yes, that will be the baseline, but beyond that.

Yes, counselor.

I also wonder if um there would be an opportunity like we're doing with the downtown businesses.

You were talking about students.

Should we do it with uh the Barrie City employees as well?

Is there an opportunity for council to talk to the employee like the people that we don't get to about the budget?

About the meeting.

That's uh you know, there is.

I mean, first of all, we always want we always want to be in a position to listen.

Yeah.

Um my favorite time to do that, honestly, is when we're doing Nicholas's evaluation.

Uh and a big one on say on having the employees evaluate Nicholas as well.

I think it's tough if we try to have a direct conversation with them because of the chain of command, and that can be a little tough, believe me.

I found out before myself that sometimes they are well-meaning, but you give them an audience and things tend to take on a life of their own very quickly.

So uh I'd probably great suggestion.

Look, we want to listen, you know, everyone has a place at the table, everyone has a voice, everyone has a part in the con the overall conversation of how we make this city work, but I'd have to defer to the manager on that one.

Because I just like I said, I want to make sure the the chain, even when I'm, you know, if I'm emailing a department head, I always uh and I'd encourage you all to do the same.

I always copy Nicholas as a courtesy.

You know, there are times where I've just got to ask Brian a question, so you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna talk to Nicholas and say, could you ask Brian this for me so you know, so I can burn up 15 minutes of Nicholas's time.

But if I'm communicating with them, I always show him the courtesy of copying him.

So good question and good thought.

Okay, Councilor Deering, your turn, round table.

Oh man, happy snow.

Get your winter tires on.

Do everyone a favor.

I'll end with uh Council Hillgardner.

Um I just want to um make people aware of something that's going to be happening in actually in Northfield, Vermont, at St.

Mary's Episcopal Church on December the 6th, which is a Saturday at three.

There will be a benefit concert, which is um to support the Habitat for Humanity house that's being built there, and it's a performance by um Cameo Baroque, with which I play and um a couple of other people uh we know fantastic.

Um so that should be that it's a um it's a sponsored jointly by the St.

Mary's Episcopal Church and Camille Arts Foundation.

It's it's free.

Every penny that is donated goes to the beneficiary.

There's no cut for um overhead.

Um so I just want to encourage people to come.

Beautiful a program of beautiful Baroque music for um Brooke trio, which is for people.

Ask me how the Baroque counts sometimes.

Thank you.

Councilor Gustin.

Uh my mechanic couldn't meet me until December.

So I am uh I'm running without snow tires for the moment, but driving safely anyway.

Um this week I started volunteering with the warming shelter that's held at the Church of Good Shepherds that started up last year.

Um which has always been a deeply uh rewarding and important thing to be doing, and I will say that so far uh far more people than this time last year when it started up.

And I think that is a reflection of something good, which is the increased communication and the increased awareness uh of the availability of city and other services, and something bad, which is that the need is clearly uh clearly very deep.

So thank you.

Counselor Spaulding.

Um I have a few things.

Um tomorrow night, the um Washington County Senators are going to be here in Barrie at the labor hall, and we would encourage you to come and have a conversation with them.

It's a listening session, um, much like what you're talking about for city council.

Um, Thursday night, and I apologize that I've been very remiss in getting this publicized.

Um, or continuing our conversation at the library about um people who are unhoused, um, maybe living in poverty, maybe housed unhoused.

Um, and there's um a few articles that the director of the library, Kristen Baumann, has um selected for us to read and discuss.

So I would encourage you to go to the library, contact her.

And then my very favorite, most favorite event of the year is on Saturday, and they've moved it to the opera house.

It's the worst song ever.

Um, it is the most fun you can have.

It's tickets are ten dollars, general admission.

You get to be in a beautiful setting at the opera house, and you get to hear really fun worst songs ever.

And it's all subjective, you know.

So it's not like it's an awful song or the people who are singing it are awful.

It just they their interpretation now of what they think the worst song ever is, and it's fantastic, it's a lot of fun.

So bring your friends, they um they donate the money.

It's really great.

So I would encourage you to participate in that.

Fantastic.

Counselor Ruthier.

Um, a little positive economic news.

Last week a survey came out from Walmart and Target and said that Thanksgiving goods and services were down 25% from last year.

Down.

Cost are down.

Oh wow.

Fewer items.

Fewer items, yeah.

Fewer items.

Far fewer.

They basically decided to think I'm sorry, I don't mean to go.

They basically listed the components of a Thanksgiving meal and said it would cost X amount, and it was eight fewer items in the Thanksgiving meal this year as opposed to last year.

So that's how they got to the 25%.

Sorry to ruin the good news work.

It's all good.

Uh speaking of which, it is Thanksgiving next week, which kicks off our holiday season.

So on Friday, uh Bury Partnership will be hosting a very marry holidays.

We'll have a their Christmas parade or holiday parade.

Uh so they're doing that on Main Street and then doing the holiday tree lighting, so that will be a lot of fun.

But on Thursday, in case you didn't get the memo, it is Thanksgiving.

So number one, donate.

Everyone sitting at this table has a roof over their heads.

Uh, you know, they have food security.

And I know that because I know you all.

So just take a minute to donate to others who don't.

And most importantly, take a minute.

I know all of you.

Uh you have beautiful families.

Uh take a minute to appreciate them.

Take a minute.

Everyone, no matter how bad things may seem, and we can all have pity parties.

Um, we can all find everyone can find a reason to be thankful.

So find that moment sometime next Thursday, and just take a minute to appreciate the people in your lives who make it all work.

Um lastly, thank you again to the folks who stepped up.

The government shutdown is over.

Whether you feel good about that or you feel poorly about that, I personally am thankful that it is over, and we have some uh you know, we have a certain amount of certainty with regard to some of the government programs like SNAP, where folks are really cut uh caught in a lot of uncertainty.

But along those lines, I am so proud of our governor and the eboard for stepping up.

We were one of I believe only three states that did that in the country that stepped up to fill that gap.

And here in Barrie, we stepped up yet again because there was a one-week gap.

And when you talk about food insecurity and people being hungry, I'm never going to be stupid enough to sit here and say mission accomplished, because it's not.

But but the standard that I set when I first gathered everyone together in the very beginning was I want to make sure people don't panic.

I want to make sure that you know, and folks, you're the boots on the ground, so you can let me know if people are panicking and how worried they are.

Of course, there was a heightened sense of anxiety.

Uh, but even when people came to our local food shelves and they were uh told that well, we're gonna ration protein items for the next couple of days, you know.

So you can take two today, you can come back tomorrow and get two more.

But no one got upset, no one, you know, they all understood um what we were trying to accomplish, and and we did manage to accomplish that.

We serve as so here in Barrie City, no one went without.

No one was turned away, and I'm just so proud of uh of everyone who had a part of that.

So, you know, once again, thank you, thank you, thank you.

And then lastly, December 6th on Saturday, Christmas for kids.

You all love it.

You love the name, you love the concept, you love everything about it.

It is just about making sure that any child, no matter who they are, where they come from, what religion they are, I don't care.

Every child in Barrie deserves something.

They deserve to know that someone cares.

So uh we're gonna be doing that coin drop on Saturday, December 6th, uh, right in front of Domino's Pizza.

It really is a good time.

I'm gonna try to get the governor to come by his security.

Now, his security detail always freaks out about him being in the middle of the road.

Everybody loves our governor.

I'm like, I should be worried more than he should.

It's like I put my sorry rear in the middle of the road and open target.

But anyway, so Saturday, December 6th.

Um, so I'll apologize in advance when we hold up traffic for people, but people are always very generous, and I'll be getting on the phone earlier that week.

We have some really dependable partners who have always supported us.

So yeah, it's just about giving back.

Yes, counselor.

Do we have a time on that?

Yeah.

Uh we usually get going.

I get down there about seven, and we definitely get going by eight o'clock, and we go until noon, 12:30.

If we're feeling a little greedy, we might go until one o'clock, but in in no event later than one.

So we're usually, but you know, hey, you don't have to come down for the whole event.

If you can come down for an hour, a couple of hours, we'll have coffee and donuts, and we'd love to see you, but we understand everyone has busy lives as well.

So with that, counsel, a uh, do you need an executive?

Oh, yes, real estate.

Sorry.

Okay, most findings would be in order.

Thank you.

Movement seconded.

Any discussion?

All those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed, thank you very much.

And a motion to enter executive session, the manager will be attending.

So please.

Motion to enter executive session.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And a second.

Thank you.

Moved and seconded.

Any discussion?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

Take a motion to come out of executive session.

Councillor Ruthier, are we a second, please?

Thank you very much.

All those in favor of the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye and those opposed.

Councillor Spaulding.

I would like to make a motion to adjourn.

Councillor Ruthier.

I'd like to second that one.

Okay, thank you very much.

All those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Those opposed, we are adjourned.

Good night, everyone.

Yes.