Okay, council.

Today is Tuesday, December 9th, 2025.

It is 6 p.m.

and I'll call this regular meeting of the Barrie City Council to order.

First item on the agenda is any adjustments and the approval of the agenda.

Mr.

Manager, any adjustments?

No adjustments for me, Mr.

Mayor.

Council.

Okay.

Hearing none, a motion to approve the agenda would be in order.

So moved.

Thank you.

And a second please.

Thank you.

Moved and seconded.

Any discussion?

Hearing none.

All those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed, thank you very much.

Motion carries.

Under visitors and communications.

Anyone wishing to address the council regarding an item that is not on the agenda?

Okay.

Hearing and seeing no one, we'll move on to the consent agenda.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Hand up.

Oh, I miss sorry, Byrne.

I'm I apologize.

I missed you.

That's all right.

I was quick and late.

I just wanted to share that.

Um the shelter was open.

The emergency shelter was open last night.

And it was full.

And um people really really appreciated the considerations that the community has given them.

Um so if anybody has time to volunteer or be part of the overnight crew, they have try to have three people for three shifts during the night, and people to prepare food, um, donations.

Uh check with Tess Taylor, and her information is you know, um, on the on the website.

And I really appreciated Nicholas.

The regroup message about the shelter.

I think the more people are aware of it, the more that they can also participate.

So thank you for getting that out to everybody in the city.

They're thank you, Byrne.

They're they're doing good work.

And uh oh, actually, council speaking of good work, uh, so Christmas for kids, we had our coin drop on Saturday.

Uh we raised it was a record, we raised over $18,000, and that is to date, and the money is still coming in.

So to those who are able to attend, thank you.

To those who weren't, you are the smart ones because it was cold.

And thank you to the governor who stopped by and uh it was really interesting to watch his security detail twitch as he stood in the middle of the road, but I assured them they're gonna aim at me.

They're absolutely gonna aim for me, so don't even worry about it.

But uh, I just want to say thank you to everyone who gave everyone who participated.

It just makes you feel good to know that we're gonna help Santa Claus out.

He's a busy guy and brighten the holidays for some kids.

So thank you again.

Uh so council, we'll move on to the consent agenda.

We'll be approving the minutes of 1118-25 and the special meeting of 1125-25.

Uh, there are no um licenses that the clerk is presenting.

We'll be ratifying the council's 1118 decision to grant free parking uh downtown during the holidays.

We'll be approving the errors and emissions correction for tax year 2025.

That is uh 51 Church Street on the grand list.

That was a relatively minor correction.

Uh we'll be approving the lease with the state of Vermont for use of the Elm Street parking lot, uh, and we'll be authorizing the manager to execute contracts.

He had one contract that was for our lobbyists in the amount of five thousand dollars, and that was provided in your packet.

Uh so a motion to approve would be in order.

So moved.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Moved and seconded.

And just sir, uh just for point of um transparency, I guess.

Uh I do own a small part of 51 Church Street.

That's actually the People's Health and Wellness Clinic.

And they put a group together to buy the building and then donate it back to the organization.

So technically, Karen and I are still listed as owners.

I don't know.

I think our we're minority interest owners.

I'm not sure what our percentage is.

I think it's less than 20 percent, but I just wanted to disclose that to the council.

And I did, by the way, sign the I don't think it's a conflict of interest, so I did sign the errors and emissions certificate.

Any other questions or comments, council?

Welcome, Councilor Deering.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, thank you very much.

And I apologize.

Councilor Gustin is joining us remotely.

How are you?

Good deal.

Okay, council.

We'll move on to item eight A 4A on the agenda.

We'll be approving the city warrants for the week of 1210 25 and ratifying the week of 12325.

The motion would be ordered.

Thank you.

Second.

Moved and seconded.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion is presented.

Please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed, thank you.

Motion carries.

Yes.

I'm abstaining.

Yes, I noted that.

Thank you very much.

I didn't say it, but I I did note it.

Thank you.

And stalling.

You good?

Okay, City Clerk's report.

Just a few things.

Um beginning December 15th.

The daytime and overnight parking permits will be available for purchase for the 2026 uh calendar year.

Over overnight permits are limited to specific parking lots and specific spaces within those parking lots.

So if you um hope to uh get one closest to your residence, it's a first come, first served basis, so please come in as soon as you can to be as closest to your resident as possible.

Daytime permits, they are applied for every green top meter throughout the entire city.

So that's less of a uh a race to get to the best spot possible.

Um secondly, January 1st dog licenses will be on sale as well.

You will need to present an updated uh rabies certificate at the time of the licensure.

Just make sure that it is up to date.

Uh the fee for this year is $19 if your dog spayed or neutered, and if they're not, it's $23.

That'll do it.

That is okay any questions for the city clerk.

Okay, thank you, council.

Uh we will move on to liquor and cannabis control board.

They are in session.

I believe you have one application for council approval.

Summer Street Tavern, uh, she has her third class and her first class.

Liquor license renewed.

Um both the police chief and fire marshal have signed off on that.

Thank you very much.

Your motion would be in order.

So moved.

Thank you.

Second.

And seconded.

Motioned and seconded.

All those in favor of the move.

Any discussion, I apologize.

Hearing none, all those in favor, the motion is presented, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

And those opposed, liquor control, liquor and cannabis control board is adjourned.

And it's your turn.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, how is hockey this week?

Uh uh, not as not my again.

No hat trick this week.

No, no, it comes and goes.

Um the uh just want to remind residents uh about the winter parking ban rules.

We've done a little bit more towing than normal.

I've had a few more visitors to my office than normal.

Um surprised about being towed.

So uh just want to make sure residents are staying up to date and informed.

Um, you know, we we are trying this new method of doing the uh forecast dependent um bans, but it does require everyone to figure out a way that they can um get informed and stay informed about when the parking bans are in effect.

Um it also means that um you know if if you're having people from out of town visit you, it also informing not just yourself but but people who are are here um who may not live here and and also subject to the rules.

So uh a little bit more traffic than usual on this subject, both at the police department and my office.

So I just want to make sure that um that residents are um you know continuing to do a good job of staying informed.

Uh you know, this is this is early in the season.

We still we always usually have a little bit higher towing incidents early in the season, but um just want to make we I think we all are committed to making this work, but it only works if people stay informed and they um they they obey by it uh obey the rules and follow the parking bans.

Uh we do our best to issue parking bans well before uh the evening so that people have time to make plans.

Um sometimes we we we depend on forecasts, which as everyone knows are as good as as they can be, but they're not perfect.

So sometimes we may issue bans when it's not snowing.

You still have to respect it.

That's because we don't know what's gonna happen.

So um so anyway, I just want to uh I I I'm really committed to making it work.

I think most people are uh just want to make sure that that uh everyone's doing their their part um to make sure that that we can keep this really good system going.

And as I've mentioned over and over, the best way to find out about parking bans is to sign up for regroup, which over a thousand residents have done, which is great.

Um, and it's just the easiest, easiest way to know um what is uh going on.

Uh I was also gonna touch on the overnight warming shelter, which Byrne referenced earlier.

Uh just want to again uh you know acknowledge Tess and the volunteers who are running it, uh, who are doing a terrific job.

Um the shelter has a capacity for 12 individuals.

Uh they've had a nightly census the two times it's been open of 10.

Uh so that's where we're sort of right, uh meeting the need uh as as we know it to be in the city.

Um we are um you know, again, very grateful for the congregational church for providing the space.

Uh this the shelter for those who need it is often open 7 p.m.

on the night that it's open in 7 and closes 7 a.m.

the next morning.

Uh and yeah, we're we're doing our our our best uh to get the word out.

uh nightly census the two times it's been open of 10 uh so that's we're we're sort of right uh meeting the need uh as as we know it to be in the city um we are um you know again very grateful for the congregational church for providing the space uh this the shelter for those who need it is open open 7 p.m on the nights that it's open in 7 a and closes 7 a.m the next morning uh and yeah we're we're doing our our our best uh to get the word out um i on I recognize probably a lot of the people on regroup aren't the ones who need the shelter but if you are on regroup and you know someone who needs a shelter or can get it to someone who can find someone who needs a shelter um that's the idea to help um you know to help people stay out of this dangerous uh cold so uh again great job by Tess and the volunteers who run this I think um they're doing a terrific job and um we're certainly uh keeping those ten people who have stayed in there um safe and warm uh during these really frigid nights uh and then just uh one final uh note uh really positive uh it brought me back to one of my first weeks here when I almost lost the berry victory sign um but we received the um uh this summer the council was visited um by some residents and also by Julian Iker of the Lafayette Trail uh it's an organization that's commemorating the revolutionary war hero um and uh it's commemorating his General Lafayette's grand tour of the United States um and we are lucky that General Lafayette visited uh our fair town uh fair city on June 28th 1825 and uh we will now be commemorating that with a historical marker um that will be installed this spring uh somewhere uh in city hall park uh and we really look forward to uh getting that installed uh and having a nice little ceremony to uh commemorate our our our city's small place in in uh general lafayette's history so that arrived it's safe uh it's in my office for now um and we look forward to having a nice little uh moment uh this this spring maybe accompanied by some appropriate lighting on the upper upper house facade uh to commemorate it so the the the the friends the French colors will figure out a way to do it so um very exciting and and it's it's nice to have that here uh and then on on another note we are starting installation of the uh rooftop units at the public safety building thank you to the council for approving our purchase of uh I believe it was four units uh to replace uh uh there's nine units up there we are now we will not have replaced seven of the nine uh so appreciate the council's support of that we'll be getting uh that building uh doing some deferred maintenance on that building as well so that is all I have questions of course uh I'm sorry oh man I'm sorry Amanda did you have a question?

Uh I could just follow up on the managers uh and Barnes discussion earlier of the overnight shelter um I was able to drop off some things pick up some things from people and drop them off at that shelter and visit in last week when it was open and have been in on the conversations about getting that ready uh and just can't say enough both for the depressing fact of the need but also for the way that people in Barrie City are are rising up to meet it.

So I'm really really grateful for our city for doing that.

And I think we as the manager said we do expect to keep uh doing that through the winter.

It's gonna keep being cold we're already hitting record lows and the need is deep.

So I want to just commend everyone who's involved with that and say unfortunately we we will keep doing it.

Thank you.

Yes.

Are we still contributing to that like financially shelter?

Indirectly okay.

Yeah you want to yeah it's it's we're contributing through Tess's time and effort to be there but there's no no direct um expenditures for for the services that are that are that or the meal the meals are all volunteer prepared um the staffing is all volunteer so our our contribution is is um test's time and effort okay which is a you know certainly a worthwhile contribution I only asked because we used to put money into a warming shelter at the uh library we do contribute um we do contribute to a daytime warming shelter um but the overnight warming shelters are separate yeah we we we helped uh um our contributions to the daytime warming shelter uh support um I think just the snacks and the coffee uh that that helps the people who are there there and that's that's throughout the winter that it's open so that's why they have um the cost for that but the overnight ones are are purely volunteer run okay yeah I mean it's um counselor it's an incredibly uh cost effective solution sure probably more cost effective than having emergency services respond to 10 crises we're you know keeping those 10 people warm and safe so uh it's awesome great effort very appreciated like the Lafayette thing viva la liberté uh and I sense so let's have a frank conversation I sense a little frustration with the towing let it all hang out do it yeah I I think you know we tell it the way it is we we don't want to tow people our goal is to plow streets clear snow make uh make streets sidewalks passable as quickly as possible uh and our crew is doing a a a good job and they they come in overnight to do that so um you know I think that um we we we've heard just about every excuse in the book um I will say that just about every excuse in the book is no good because in the past you were never allowed to park on streets right so now you know people tell me well I didn't know well in the past you would have been towed anyway right because there was no parking so you know individuals clearly have heard something is up but they may have missed you know a a ban that was issued so um we've heard all the excuses um really our goal is not to make money off of towing it's more of a uh a a headache for the police department than it is and you know we're it's a basically a pass through cost.

So now you know people tell me, well, I didn't know.

Well, in the past you would have been towed anyway, right?

Because there was no parking.

So you know, the individuals clearly have heard something is up, but they may have missed you know a ban that was issued.

So um we've heard all the excuses.

Um really our goal is not to make money off of towing.

It's more of a uh a headache for the police department than it is, and you know, we're it's a basically a pass-through cost.

Um so I think if everyone do their part, we can all be better off and just um you know, clear streets and and make them safer for everyone.

And I and we don't make money on towing, doing it.

No, I mean when you continue, yeah.

I mean it's a pass-through cost.

So when you figure the time, you know, dispatch, getting someone out there.

Um so today we use uh I see it on Facebook, I see the the ban on social media, Instagram, Facebook.

Um we have the flashing signs out on uh one on Washington Street and one on 302, and one at the park, yeah, and one at the park.

Uh so you know we have signs out there flashing.

Um we use regroup.

Um, you know, like I told Nicholas, and you know, call my office and not his because I've told him don't spend a lot of time on this.

You know, it's very expensive.

If we have to send, you know, if a car is there, first of all, the plowers are going around the car because they're there, and then they have to double back once they've moved the car and replow because the snow where the car was still, you know, we're really trying hard to accommodate people.

Nicholas is really trying hard, his staff is really trying hard.

Um, but you know, we're at the point in the program where we're just going to tow, and if you want to speak to someone, I'm gonna tell people you can't speak to the city manager.

You can speak to your individual counselor, or you can speak to the mayor and bother us.

They have more they just have other things to do.

It's been three years now.

This is year two, year two.

This is year two.

So I mean, it's been two years.

Um I'm counselor, I'm gonna get to Byrne for she had her hand up first, Byrne.

Sorry.

Uh we you turned and went on to the uh towing thing.

Uh so I'm just jumping back to the um the shelter, and uh I want to share that uh Tess is employed by the city, but she does far more than what she's paid for.

She is also a lot of her time is volunteering, and it's not those volunteers or them or other people, it is it is us, people who live here and in our community, and so I invite people who think they might be able to do a shift uh to get in touch with uh test because we're got we're going to have more cold nights coming up, and if folks are having to do overnight shifts um a couple of nights in a row, that's gonna be pretty exhausting.

They people work, they have jobs, and so the more uh hands and the the more cooks, the more people showing up.

Uh donations can go to the uh episcopal church or the congregational church for um uh they've been having fundraisers and collecting money to help pay for these things.

So I uh and uh people were able to even take showers last night.

Four people were able to have a shower, which Tess said just transformed them.

Uh people can donate uh new socks and hand warmers uh and things like that.

So it's um it's a huge effort uh by the people that are doing it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councillor Spongly.

Uh my question is about the shelter.

Um, and I've asked I asked this question before, and I'm glad that Tess is here.

I'm really pleased that we have um space for uh emergency shelter for 12.

What I'm wondering is did we have to turn anybody away?

And if so, how many people um today?

We did not turn anybody away.

Um and um yeah, and the spaces worked out pretty well.

The the I think we're we're right at the sweet spot of the need.

Um you might recall when we started doing the shelter, we started it at the auditorium, which was cavernous and just not the right size, and we were still serving 10 to 12 people when it was at the auditorium.

So uh I think they've right sized the the the uh capacity.

Um and and I know that um you know, knowing Tuss and knowing the people who are volunteering.

Um I'm confident that anybody who comes shows up above the the head count would they would find a place for them one way or the other.

So um and I know that last night you didn't turn anybody away.

So in fact, you you welcome somebody in the middle of the night, I believe, when we spoke, or later, later in the evening.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, I think it was four and uh yeah.

We've gotten a call.

I wasn't there because I usually take the shift till midnight.

But uh I guess we took a call from the um city police department, and the woman had been out there just outside.

And uh, but she's not from here and didn't understand that the shelter is there.

So uh she called PD, they called uh Earl Hooper Camp who was the uh captain for the shelter that I did so happy that we were able to let her in, and she was able to go to the cell wellness just to have a checkup to make sure all was okay the next day and all is good.

Thank you.

Yes.

Um would we say that we're based on last year and this year so far seeing the same clientele?

And if you mean by so they're the same the same people, like the people that were displaced last year using the shelter, are they the same?

And I'm not looking for for names or any of that.

I'm just you know, asking like how are we mitigating this?

If they're coming to us or coming to anywhere to get help, you know, what kind of things are we then offering to them to say um is it something that maybe we could have them be brought to the situation table?

Uh is it something that one of the area agencies might be able to help out with?

So I guess you know, we're having people access this service, and it's amazing.

Um, but I also want to make sure that whatever we can do to link them up with with whatever's going to get them to the next step and and where they need to be, um, they they have access to those services.

Thank you.

Um the first part of your question is are we seeing the same clientele?

It's like sure.

We're seeing a few um of their are the same people that we've gotten to know so well, and then um some new people as well.

Um as far as services go, yes, um, we talk a lot about what needs what their needs might be, and um it's really nice um because we have time with people to have conversations if they want to have them.

Some people are just exhausted and want to go to sleep.

Um but uh for instance last night um one of our volunteers is a person who is employed at um turning point and she was able to have a really good conversation, um good conversations with several people about you know where they're at right now, and um and you know, she could follow up.

So it is, it's it's actually in in everything we do, we try to also incorporate service providers, but even if we can't, we do have information uh where people can go if they if they ask or need it.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Anything else, council?

Anything else, sir?

No, that's it for me.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh then council, we will move on to item 8A on the agenda.

This is a public hearing which actually warned for 6.15 p.m.

It is 625 p.m.

This is the closeout of the BCDP implementation grant, uh, granite city apartments, downstreet housing.

Would you like to come up?

Both of you, Janet, please.

Thank you.

Uh so council uh and those in the audience, the purpose of this hearing is to uh close out the um close out the grant, uh which was a B C D Premant Community Development Program Implation Grant, uh just to be specific and get it in the record 07110-IG-2021-Berry C21.

So, as uh one of the grant requirements is that we have this hearing so that members of the public uh can comment if they care to do so, and we hold this public hearing so that we can acknowledge that the and represent that the work was completed and the funds were used appropriately.

So it was and they were.

So anything you'd like to add?

Um just you know, the building, all of the buildings have been fully leased up since April.

Truly, the project was complete months ago.

We just thought we had had this public hearing as for um downstreet's finishing up our documents for the end of the year.

But it's been an incredible project, really excited for the work that we did at Bromer and uh the playground and adding the things for the residents there, but the Ward 5 school is beautiful, truly beautiful.

Um, and it's fully leased up, and the residents are very happy in building great community.

But all of the funds are requisitioned, and we really sub we really appreciate the City of Barrie's support in this project with this, but also with the ARPA award as well.

Absolutely.

Council, any questions or comments?

Folks in the audience, you're welcome to comment or ask questions.

Uh just want to say thank you again.

You know, a million years ago, I remember taking Eileen Pell Tier to that building, the Barrie Housing Authority had all, you know, but abandoned the building, and it wasn't it wasn't very attractive.

It wasn't very good for the neighborhood.

It wasn't in very good repair.

And uh I said, Eileen, is there anything you can do to help?

And the project took a little longer than Eileen's tenure.

Um, but thank you for Andrew's leadership and and for your leadership team because uh you got it done, and it's a stunning, stunning building.

It's awesome.

Yeah, truly, it is beautiful.

So thank you again.

Council.

Yes.

I just want to add uh the ward five building looks great.

Um I grew up down there.

I played street hockey in that little yard out in front of the school, and both of my kids started at Ward 5 school before they went to Barrie City School.

So thanks.

It looks great.

You're welcome.

Yeah, we have a few staff members that went to school there.

So it's very cool for them to now um support residents in the building.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments or questions from anyone?

Okay, then I will close this hearing, and we have fulfilled our obligations in that respect.

Thank you very much again.

Council will move on to item 8B on the agenda, which is the Barrie City River Access Master Plan.

We're looking for some public feedback.

You did receive in your packet council a very thorough and very uh detailed uh river access master plan.

Sir, how are you?

Good, Mr.

Mayor.

How are you?

And if anyone else would like to come up, I know a lot of you are interested in this, just pull your chair right up.

It's all good.

Cowards.

Yeah.

Well, I can point out the folks that are here.

Um so that again, thanks for having us as you always have and welcomed us here.

Um so I just want to start again with a backstory for I think most of you folks know the river access task force, so maybe some folks on the phone don't.

Um so we started back in fall 2021 as part of the all-in for Barrie community event with the city and Vermont Council and Rural Development.

And the message from the residents was loud and clear people want better access to the rivers in the city.

Um, so out of that came our task force, now known as the Barrie River Collective.

We just did this kind of renaming.

Um, it's really a group of passionate locals.

We meet monthly, we work on everything from access projects to education, outreach, and water quality monitoring.

Uh from day one, we've partnered with the Friends of the Winooski.

So Taylor, right there, and Michelle, who's who's on the call as well.

Um, and I also wanted to call out folks who are on the task force.

Um, I think Jim Deshler is on the call and Hannah Town and Peter Anthony as well.

Um without the Friends of the Newski, this effort wouldn't exist.

So they've been a really amazing partner.

Um and they're also here to answer questions beyond sort of the access plan.

And this year we actually did a planting um this fall after the removing removal of the jockey hollow dam on the Stevens branch um by Rotary Park.

And so that included community members and the Mad Dog chapter of Trial Unlimited.

Um so work is you know happening on the ground and continues to happen on the ground.

So tonight's plan represents a really big investment, and we want to make sure it stays connected to city planning and future projects so it doesn't just sit on a shelf.

Um we may also reach out to the city down the road for match support as we turn these ideas into real projects.

And we'd really love your input on priorities so we can focus on what matters most not just to the community members but also to council and what's most doable, really, because you kind of know what's going on.

Um so at the end of the day, this is really about getting Barry residents safely and easily to the river.

Um and with that, I just wanted to introduce um Dan from DNK who's gonna present their river access master plan.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Danielle.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, counselors.

Uh appreciate it's been a privilege to work with the city and all those members that Danielle spoke about, members of uh city staff as well.

Uh Mr.

Manager, thanks.

I'll do a little loop with my hand to uh be looking as well at the screen to keep my own place.

Uh what you received in your packet is actually a subset of uh appreciated, Mr.

Mayor, detailed document.

Uh we wanted this evening, however, to highlight some of the background of how we got here, uh, some of the process, the outreach, and also some of our recommendations for moving forward.

Once again, my name is Dan Malik.

That's M-A-L-L-A-C-H.

I'm a licensed landscape architect and certified planner, AICP.

I work with Du Boys and King out of our office in Randolph.

I'm a resident of Braintree.

Again, happy to be here.

We'll try to move this through efficiently.

A lot of slides, however, I do want to make sure there's time for questions for any of you.

And the grant, this Vorek grant, this Vermont Outdoor Recreation Economic Collaborative Grant State Grant is actually going to continue through March with additional monies to Friends of the Newski River to engage with the community further, connect with you all and city staff and have the outreach ongoing.

And there are a lot of other things happening fortuitously that are aligned at the exact same time.

So this is a great time for us to be doing planning and design, while engineers and others are also working on river hydrology and the fundamentals of flood resilience throughout the city and the watershed.

I wanted to pause for a moment.

Two things on this table of contents.

First, to show that the breadth of this document is extensive.

There's a lot going on.

We went through many aspects, everything from signage to what accessibility means to people.

We also have some cost estimates.

You saw an example of one of those in your packet, uh, and specific designs for four of ten potential access points that we looked at.

And we're going to ask you, though, and put in the final document if you have ideas about prioritizing among those ten, even though we just illustrated four that are included there.

I also would like to read for the record the goal of this project.

The goal of this Barry City River Access Master Plan is to remove barriers to the enjoyment of our rivers for all Barry residents and visitors.

It is an inclusive master planning and design effort to improve and connect existing and potential river access sites and to develop wayfinding and interpretive signs that highlight these features of the city landscape.

What is this project?

You can read a lot of that, the background coming out of that all in for Barry event in 2021 that identified access to the rivers as a priority for the city.

And that's complicated.

And we can all recognize the challenging emotional, physical, real financial loss that has occurred through flooding.

One of the first things we learned when we even were preparing our proposal when the city put out and the Friends of Manuski put out the request for proposals, gosh, year and a half ago about the drowning of uh Joshua and Justin Nutt Brown and Alison Hansen on the jail branch just about 20 years ago this year.

And that is not recent history, or that's not ancient history, rather, for a lot of people.

And so that's real.

So what is access to our rivers?

It's an understanding of them, it's an appreciation of them, it's education about them, but it's also perhaps restoring some of the heart-based connection to these places.

And it means different things for different people, depending on where they are at.

So we tried to prepare our designs specifically for that, but also take that attitude as we went through the outreach portion of the project.

The 10 sites that we did explore are at the Granite Museum, uh, two portions along that property, Ayur Auto Sales along Main Street, which is going through a FEMA by a process, the Scampini Square, Vine Street, and some of the several properties also moving through that process.

The Brook Street Community Garden where the debris racks are, and SLR put forth plans to potentially reconfigure.

That's one of those aligned projects.

They also were doing work at Ayer Auto Sales.

Desarrol Machines, actually, there's a beautiful lawn at that property already, and that's one of the properties we looked at.

There's city-owned land along Brooklyn Street on the west side of the Stevens Branch from about the Albashawn.

There are actually a couple properties right there along Brooklyn Street that we looked at, Spaulding High School, of course, Rotary Park, some wonderful opportunities, and the South Falls, right near where that dam just came out.

We're exploring that area as well.

And so, if while we looked at four of these sites in greater detail, if you have a notion of priorities, we can embed that into the final document.

Some images that you all know, at least as well as I do, of some of the recent floods and the devastation that there was a mention of the resilience of the people in terms of the overnight warming shelter and the outreach efforts and energy behind taking care of folks.

We know that's still all ongoing.

We just wanted to provide some of that context in our document.

Next slide, please.

Uh and so that all in for Barry project, the river access task force now, the Barry River Collective.

And so that All In for Barry project, the River Access Task Force now, the Barry River Collective, some of their they have a strategic plan that's available online, Barry's own municipal plan for the city.

Which I know Councillor Gustin is very involved in, supporting resilience and recovery, both on the physical, making people whole as much as possible, both physically and emotionally through that process.

Other plans have been done on the Gunnersburg floodplain restoration going back 10 years.

Our firm Du Boys and King worked on the original design of those trash racks.

And then the whole concept of reconnecting with rivers generally, which is something that we all care about to design and implement targeted engagement strategies.

This is actually something that's just picking up in the city, along with Northfield and Minooski, again through Friends of the Minooski River.

And so our work and others is actually teeing up this ongoing engagement.

Some of the site analysis we assist we did.

We first, one of the first things we did was we met with the then uh River Access Task Force to identify about 15 or 18 or so particular sites.

Uh and uh on Google Earth on the next slide.

Uh I think we have some of those sites.

But on, yeah, there you go.

Thank you very much.

Uh I'm gonna stand up, hopefully the Allies can see me.

You know, really running the breadth of the Stevens branch, uh heading north where it enters uh the East of New Ski River behind the tractor supply, uh heading all the way up to where it uh headwaters in Williamstown, and then the jail branch coming in past the high school and uh Gunnersburg coming down from the north uh past Hobe Cemetery.

You know, what are all the options we might have to enhance access, what however it means to different people?

And if you could go back a slide, please.

So these access, our first committee meeting was at the Granite Museum hosted by them.

We had whole pages of what access means to different people, and in a nutshell, how can we say yes?

How can we say what people can do at a place rather than what we often experience what they can't?

It's also recognizing for some people seeing water, hearing water, seeing uh wildlife, perhaps is a benefit in the day-to-day and the stressful day-to-day.

Others perhaps eventually fishing, like it once was, or boating, or getting your feet wet, wouldn't that be wonderful?

Simply understanding more about a place is accessibility.

We uh narrowed down, or we took that 15 or 18, if you will, and our team at Du Boys and King, other landscape architects, along with Taylor Litwin, project manager of the Friends of the Newski River, went to every one of those initial sites identified with the river access task force with a sheet so we could compare apples to apples among all the sites.

Okay, what's what's this like?

Is there road noise?

Uh are there objectionable uh smells, frankly, or sounds that might make this location more or less suited to access by all.

What's the parking like?

Is there sidewalk access?

What's the slope like down to the water?

What might be the experience?

Uh so we filled out all these forms and looked at some of the history in particular.

This is the Scampini Square area.

We also worked with a cultural historian and learned a lot about the history of the places and how that could translate into a better understanding of place, and certainly that was very rich.

Uh, this is actually uh the Scampini Square area, so that would be the Berlin Street Bridge nowadays.

Uh and that was all built there.

We want to honor that history as best we can so people can appreciate it and understand it.

Uh and then we held multiple community engagement events.

And the first was on a cold February evening held at Aldrich Library in the basement.

About 25 people just told their stories of the rivers.

We wanted to not jive right into the technical details, but have people talk about jumping on a block of ice when they were younger, perhaps, or fishing, and how as designers we can translate events and memories into new opportunities for access and enjoyment of these waterways.

And perhaps to some extent, telling stories is what we all do.

It's how we think.

So that is one of the ones of the river walk.

Actually, two of the folks that came to that river stories event at the library drew this.

We have paper out on the tables, and you know, it says river stories up here, and you know, it's that kind of creativity that we want all the citizens of the city and visitors to be able to bring to a project like this.

And one of the reasons it was so gratifying for us as professionals to see this.

So we had that river stories event.

Here is our river walk.

A couple weeks earlier, actually, SLR, uh, the hydro engineers and Seidler Climate Consulting had their own river walks.

So there was this pair of people, and we had a great group of folks and some neighbors that came out and told us, even here on Vine Street, where we're gathered at the lower photograph, how proud they are of their neighborhood, and how frankly they're excited to stay.

They were also able to tell us how high the water rose relative to that playground that's on Vine Street.

And so it was humbling, really, frankly, to connect with so many people through this process.

So we had the river walk at three sites, air auto sales, Vine Street, and then we went up Brook Street to where the debris racks are.

We went to farmers market as well, and some of the emerging designs were available at that point for public comment.

And you know, it's a sensitive subject, and a lot of the people were very open and honest with us, and we were grateful for that.

So site designs and cost estimates.

This is where the decision making process can now move forward.

This is a template, this is a toolkit.

Uh not all of these designs have to be done at once, but we wanted to put something on paper to help say, yes, there is a vision for moving forward.

Design development, we don't need to look at this entire table, but we do want to convey the fact that there was, in addition to the qualitative, the spiritual almost aspects of every single site, the way they speak to us.

We also went through a very quantitative analysis in terms of what was possible relative to slope and access and uh you know, this all the general surroundings of vehicular access, wheelchair access, uh, you know, pedestrian access, transit of all kinds.

Uh this is one of the site plans for Brooklyn Street, very steep down to the Stevens branch.

Uh and so you'll see the type of path evolving to be very long and linear, so it can be AD compliant.

It can have that slope of 5% or less.

That is wheelchair accessible.

We also do have staircases for those that uh might want a more direct route onto the water.

Again, that's also shown in the large building across the street.

The city also owns land on the west side of Brooklyn Street where potential parking uh could go.

Recognizing also that there are residents here on Vine Street, all of these need to be done with a degree of sensitivity to the residents that live in these areas.

And they also need to be done quite frankly, recognizing that there's so much operational and capacity with uh maintenance.

And so, how can we bring in volunteers that might adopt these spaces?

You know, uh it's gonna require effort, and so in making any capital improvements, we always have to think about the long-term operational costs and capacity of the community.

Next slide, please.

Uh, here is the design that we are proposing for Desero Machines.

Again, there's a great lawn available already there, a slightly steeper slope down to the water.

But as this may go through a FEMA buyout and all that concrete will be removed, we are still proposing potential pervious surface for gatherings and showing in this design a pavilion.

Now, what could come first to a spot like this?

First, it could just be the path.

First, it could just be the signs and a couple of benches.

Pavilion potentially could come later.

We don't need to fill a space immediately with a final design.

Next slide, please.

Uh, air auto sales, really very interesting property uh in that potentially with a sidewalk extension from uh past Dollar General, because there isn't now, but getting to this site, coming in the existing access across the railroad, V Trans right of way.

The design for this tried to echo some of the geometry of the railroad, quite frankly, and potentially a sculpture garden.

Uh it's a really interesting site.

This is one of the sites that SLR is proposing, lowering the grade to add flood resilience capacity.

Uh, we're really excited about it.

A lot of great ideas for this spot.

And finally, the fourth plan that we uh show, at least in this format, would be in and among the properties that could be bought out along Vine Street and Scampina Square.

Again, amidst the fabric of historic neighborhood where people still live in uh love.

So historical information that honors the recent history but also the past as well, and what makes this a wonderful place.

And we was a privilege to have Peter Anthony uh so involved in our group to offer us some of the history of this area, and it was a highlight of our walk.

Uh for each of those, and we just offer a sample here, the full document has all, we show section views as well based on the SLR plans, and so the dotted line uh is the current elevation, their plans show the uh straight dash line, how we'll be lowering potentially that ground to allow more flood capacity post buyout.

We're also showing there the FEMA floodway.

We also have, and we'll show a little more plans for where to locate different types of signs throughout the city to be able to consistently and clearly direct people to these sites.

Next slide, please.

And we also for each of four sites have a higher level planning cost estimate.

Each of these sites, aside from any grading relative to those SLR engineer plans, but for paths, benches, pavilions, plantings, signs, what have you, come in about 150,000 per site.

This example, 134,000 a little lower.

Again, with adopting the sites, you can defer or have some of those operational costs brought down.

And you also don't need to do a lot to actually energize a place.

Have people know it and love it and have it be available with paths and a few benches.

And so this is just sort of the soup to nuts uh planning level estimate.

Thanks, Nicholas.

And finally, the signs.

We propose different types of signs.

You can have a few of these at targeted locations, whether it is in City Hall Park or at the high school or few area, a map of the entire set of these river access points.

One thing we spent a lot of time on with the steering committee and at Heritage Festival as well, working with Friends of the Newski Rivers designing this public access sign that would be placed in concert with your road crew at targeted locations to be able to say in this direction to the Stevens branch, you'll find paths and picnic tables.

And we have a few different designs potentially, but this had the highest votes at Heritage Festival for the style.

Those were the two that we were looking at.

One had a map of the city where you are here, and this was the other one, and that's my daughter Katie voting.

Next one, please.

We also have a historic site markers.

Again, that's a great way to engage in a space to really understand the industrial history, the geology, the ecology, the hydrology of a place.

And so for example, Scampini Square and Vince, where you want to make sure people along Main Street know you can take a left or a right and head toward one of these public access areas.

And so we go through these for all of those.

Again, here's the same kind of thing for Spaulding High School.

We can just go through these.

So we have all of these, and what we're trying to provide the city is a toolkit.

Here you go.

Here are estimated costs.

Here are where signs could go.

Here is how they could be built and designed.

We do offer some more ideas about color and contrast and appealing to different people who might have low vision or the needs for certain types of contrast.

The full report offers some of these design details next to this.

And other guides about potential permitting and how to prioritize the path network and the signage first.

Different things, FEMA has specific rules in some of these buyouts properties about if you're going to put in a picnic table or a bench or even a pavilion, how they have to be anchored into the ground, and they're very specific that way.

But there are opportunities to do that.

And so these needn't just be blank slate sites.

Again, we want to offer opportunities for wheelchair access, and that just means a certain type of table, or people with low vision or blindness, a certain type of bench or opportunity or place for their dog.

So the final full report has several pages of this type.

And the planting.

A lot of people on our walks, as you can imagine, especially if some trees might be coming out with redesigns.

What can we put in that's native and pollinator friendly?

So we offer some suggestions there.

And grant resources, all important.

And of course, a lot of your staff, your city staff is well aware of this, these opportunities, but we just wanted a one stop shopping in a document as much as possible for grant resources.

And then the full appendices of the document will have all the meeting notes that Taylor provided after each meeting, those checklists that I mentioned early on, and we also have about five or six pages about some of the ecologically harmful introduced plants that we found at some of these sites and how they could potentially best be managed ideally mechanically rather than chemically, especially along waterways.

And I could just reiterate the Barry River Collective has a ton of institutional knowledge.

You have ecologists with the state, a lot of other people that really know these things cold.

So we hope we can continue to depend on them and look to them for guidance for any number of things and you know carry the ball forward from here.

So I'm willing to take any questions you may have and then go back perhaps, Mr.

Manager, to that list of ten, uh, so we can discuss what sites might be prioritized depending on the timing uh of FEMA buyouts or other city initiatives.

Thank you.

Council, questions?

Or anyone in the audience?

Well, first of all, thank you for a very comprehensive and detailed report.

And you stole my first question, which was going to be as we implement.

I mean, obviously, this isn't a plan that we could commit to implementing in three years, for example.

You know, things take time.

Um, but you have to start somewhere.

So that was actually going to be my first question.

Is there a prioritized list of sites, a roadmap, so to speak?

Um thank you for providing potential funding sources.

That's very helpful.

Um obviously we're already one step ahead of you because you mentioned in your report that you need a champion, and we have a few right here.

So, okay, that box is checked.

Uh, but we'll need to prioritize the list.

So do you have you mentioned that?

Do you have a prioritized list, or does anyone on the committee have a list that I would think Scampini Square, I love the prohibition story, you got me right there.

We started that uh 18, and so that was an initial winnowing down of uh different sites and other sites that emerged throughout the course of the project.

I would say some of the the FEMA buyout process can take time.

So perhaps even something like at Spaulding High School on the list, you have an area for education and interest in history embedded already, perhaps.

So you could perhaps look to the city properties that you already have if you really wanted to jump on on something soon.

But otherwise, yeah, the Scampini Square area is so rich uh in history and whatnot.

And the other opportunity, I guess, and Scott's already working through access to the waterways up at the Vermont Granite Museum.

So, yes, it's a little off you know, the sidewalk network, if you will, coming out of the city, but there's a lot of energy there and interest as well.

And otherwise, I defer to Danielle or just added something.

Um, so part of the forec grant was for actually Du Bois and King to uh provide us with designs for a trail um at Rotary Park.

So those designs are looking great, and we're making a few uh tweaks to them, but that will be kind of a design in hand ready um project to work with once there's funding.

And Friends of the Winewski just received a grant um to formalize a trail on the opposite side of the river that goes down from the city-owned snow lot down to the where the um dam was just removed at jockey hollow.

So that's um a starting point for us, and then the designs in hand for the other side of the river are great too.

So thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

So if any of you also then had points of interest, Scampini Square.

Yeah.

Yes.

For me, it would be Spaulding.

The at Spaulding High School.

Because I really do think there's wonderful educational potential there already with the students.

Good.

Thank you.

Council?

Um, so I my I would pick three.

Um, and the reason I would pick three, sprawling high school is on the list, Desero Machines.

I'm completely um blown away by the idea of making that like this uh a space that you could hold events or concerts, things like that.

I think it would be fantastic.

I was just at the queer arts there this um past weekend, and that would be an amazing place to have um that we were in a parking lot, and so it could be in that space.

I could when I was reading through, I was like, oh, that would be really, really great.

Um, and then my third one was Air Street Auto, just because it's already um it will belong to us, the Desmer Machines FEMA buyout, and then Spaulding High School is um, you know, the heart of the city um owned property.

So I think, or it's Spaulding High School.

So I feel like those three, and the reason I picked those three, just to be perfectly honest, is there's one in each ward, and so that's why thanks, Council.

Yeah, I mean, it would seem if you look at the areas, you know, when you look at your budget, they all contain, you know, a budget for excavation.

Um, you know, excavation can be done well in advance of actual implementation.

You know, you're just changing the contour of the land.

And it would seem that in areas um Harrington Avenue, for example, comes to mind, uh, which is Brook Street area, in areas where um work is going to be performed.

Um, if we were to prioritize those areas, we wouldn't be paying for mobilization costs twice.

So we could do a lot of that work as we're doing some of these FEMA buyouts.

The city could say to the contractor, well, you're there, you're doing this work.

Why don't you change the contour of the land and at least prepare the land to accept the balance of the work?

So it would seem just from a cost point of view, because you know, it's not like we're brimming with money here, let's face it.

But from a you know, we'd like to do, we'd like to start moving on this, so it would seem to me that that would be the most cost-effective way to do it.

Great, Mr.

Mary.

Thank you.

Yes, Samanda.

Uh, I just want to put in the I think your point is extremely well taken into that.

And the sites at Scampini Square and Air Auto both have buyout work coming as part of the federal buyout process.

And both of those sites, in addition to having really some tremendous access potential, will also have mitigation potential for flooding reasons, lowering the land there both creates these green spaces and provides overflow space for the water to go.

So I think those are kind of both twofer sites.

I do like, frankly, like all the sites.

I think we should work our way through the list.

Um, but those both rise to the top for those reasons for me.

Thank you.

Anything else?

Yes.

I'll just say it.

Um, so my biggest concern with river access um has been the condition of the sites on the river.

Um we talk about Rotary Park, um, that site down there where there's lots of encampments, lots of needles, um, lots of things where we really don't want to bring, I don't want to bring my kids because it's just not safe.

Um I like some of the other opportunities that are more open in space.

Um, and I feel like some of the seclusion of some of the access points make it so it allows folks to be engaging in those behaviors.

Um I really love Rotary Park and the South Falls.

It's really some of my favorite places to visit.

Um, but over the last couple of years, it's gotten really just nasty.

Um, and it seems that you know, we keep working on that um as a city, but I've from the feedback that I've heard and from what I see, I don't feel like we're getting anywhere with those remote locations, and feel that we should definitely focus on more open areas that give people a sense of safety and security and wanting to go and visit.

Um, I think the granite museum is great, kind of out of the way, but also you know, the Air Street Auto, the Scampini Square, the Desro Machine Um areas, even Spaulding High School is phenomenal.

But I really worry about creating like number nine and ten um when it's just it's not safe.

Um and that's my personal opinion.

It's the opinion of many within our community and also within our our school district, um, that it's just not a viable option right now.

Um, and it was a discussion that many of us, some of us on this council had on on Monday evening, uh last night, um, about that.

So that's really my biggest concern um with being in a place that's remote um and not and not taken care of, I guess, for lack of a better term.

Councilor Ruthier.

So I contemplated bringing that up, but I really didn't want to, but I will concur with uh Councilman Aaron.

That wasn't my first.

I mean all sounds great, but we've had history of what's going on.

We we did last year cleaned up a site and now it's full of needles.

Um relevant, irrelevant to the site work and all that.

Yes or no, but I just want to say that I that was one of my biggest concerns, and I concur with councilman Darren on that.

Amy Calford.

Hey, thank you.

Um safety question I had is whether um we could get any input from maybe like fire and EMS about what they think about um sites or how things work for um you know, posting a sign won't keep people out of areas that aren't safe to swim versus ones that are, but I guess it it might behoove the city to have signs related to to safety or whether things aren't swimming access or not to be clear to people.

Um a couple picky things, no surprise about the um scamping vine thing.

Um like kind of looking at um page 36 on the master plan or 52 of the packet.

Um and then um there's there's a couple views of it there, and then later in the city council packet, there's the updates on the FEMA bio.

And I think there's a couple properties that came in later, so they're probably not reflected in this master plan, but they're actually literally adjacent to um the green space in here.

So that might be something where it can even be extended more in terms of the um the landscaping and planning the um green space.

Like I think the property, I think it might be for 15 Berlin Street, right adjacent to the bridge shows up on one of the later maps.

The maps on page 89 and 90 of the packet look like they're different sets of maps, but they actually are the same geographic area um and overlap with this one.

So I think it would be good to make sure all the um all the biops are reflected because there might be opportunities to make things bigger or where to put things also in that same picture.

There's the Vine Street playground, and so I wonder how that can be integrated with um with that neighborhood, because that's already a city resource, a city recreational um resource.

So I think you know, it's it's on the map, but it's kind of not I didn't see it almost.

I missed it in the in the text um being connected there.

And then the last thing I wondered about was um what the plan is for Scampini Square.

Right now it's kind of a one-lane horseshoe, a little bit bigger than one lane.

Um so I'm curious what the plan is for traffic as those properties come down.

Is it gonna be um just a small dead end on one side of Scampini?

Because it seems like that would affect the the plan there and whether parking is gonna be on Vine Street or Scampini.

Thank you.

Did you want to?

I think you had a question about parking.

Yeah, I can't, I'm sorry, way in on No, no, no, that's all right.

Yeah.

No, but I I see you making notes of those that's making notes on everything because these things actually should be in the report as important issues to have nailed down.

Uh and the counselor's two points or concurring points about access and current activities and safety and security uh were really well said uh and very well noted.

Uh as to the road configurations of Scampini Square, I'm not positive, but we will also thank you very much, uh, check the current status of some of the buyout properties.

We could have been working off earlier iterations of that.

But if others are aware of how that area might be reconfigured for traffic, that's very interesting.

Thank you.

Yes, I can address the biotechshire.

I think the only one I think the one that Amy mentioned about 15 Berlin Street was a buyout that came in after the fact uh connected to CDBGDR, so it's not undergoing the normal FEMA buyout process, which isn't why it's not involved in any of the maps that you've been um working with.

So it's sort of a subsequent round that's would be in a on a on a very different timeline if it's awarded.

Yeah, so thank you.

Okay, and is that also true for the other era auto property on West Second.

That's still that's under that's under the FEMA bio property, but that's I mean it's it's adjacent, it's across the river from from where the Vine Scampini plan is being drawn.

Um so I I don't know if there's a way to connect it feasibly, but it's um yeah, it's it's it's it's across the Stevens branch from from where we've been talking about.

Yeah, thank you.

And uh counselors, you know, thank you for raising that issue.

It's and thank you for as you said, doing it the way you did, you know, being respectful.

Um I mean, let's not kid ourselves for us to complete all of these access points within let's say a five-year period would be a really big lift.

You know, 10 years would be more like it, and probably some of these access points won't make the cut, you know, because the point was I mean, right now we have virtually no access.

Um so if we could complete five sites in five years, you know, I'd consider that a big win.

Um, you know, with regard to your your comments about unwelcome activity.

Look, we all we all deal with that every day.

And I think back to when Karen was doing 47 North Main Street and she insisted on flower boxes.

And my first reaction was they're gonna get destroyed.

I mean, people are gonna pull them out, yeah, they're gonna get wrecked.

And they did twice.

And every time they got wrecked, she'd put them back, and Rich McSheffrey from the cornerstone would put them back.

And since then, Rich has adopted them and he takes pride in them.

And for whatever reason, people leave them alone.

When we encountered that type of behavior in City Hall Park this summer, Nicholas put a quick stop to it.

And I'm one to believe that you set reasonable expectations.

So, but you know, we govern for 9,000 people.

And I hear what you're you're both saying, and thank you for the observation because we're all going to keep it in mind.

But you're never gonna find me not doing something because dirt bags might ruin it.

No, you do it so that 8,000 people can enjoy it and have fun with it.

And as far as the dirt bags, you know, we can deal with them.

Yes.

I would um I would just caution.

I I would hope by the time we get these sites available that the people who are having to live in encampments would have places to live, and so then we wouldn't have this issue.

So that would be my hope.

Yeah.

And you know, encampments aren't necessarily the issue.

It's some of the folks, and certainly not all of them.

Some folks are just looking for a place to stay.

Some people, unfortunately, are looking for a place to shoot up, and that's where you know we need to draw the line.

But this is good work.

I mean, I I'd love to see the council advance it on some level.

I'd like to see us prioritize some of those sites.

I think your suggestion, Councillor Spaulding, like Spaulding High School, that to me is you know, what a great project to see if we could partner with Spaulding High School and make it an educational, you know.

So I I think that one, you know, to me could be number one because we've got a partner and it provides an educational activity.

And then, you know, the Scampini Square, Peter just wants to see that done, don't you?

So I know we'd have a champion right here in the city who could, you know, help us with that one.

And and like I said, I know there's going to be opportunities as we raise some of these buy-out properties.

There are going to be opportunities to change the contour of the land for very, very little cost.

So, you know, again, I I see a path forward where the city could certainly complete, say, five of these in different geographic areas in five to seven years, and I think that would be a big win.

I think we could do it.

Anything.

Oh, I'm sorry, Councilor Gustin.

No, it didn't miss me by too much.

I just, in response to sort of your your comments about prioritization, Mayor, and about sort of timeline and things like that.

We currently have an item in the flood resiliency plan that is to support the river access task force, and we've done that by giving them a platform and sharing folks their events and sending people to some of the events that made up uh that led to this river access uh master plan.

But in the next iteration of the flood resiliency plan, which we're still a little bit ways away from, but when we update it the next, um, it could be that we as council work with the river access task force and pick one of these sites specifically to be the plug in that piece of the plan and sort of lend um find funding opportunities and partnership uh for that so we could sort of turbocharge some of this work in that way in partnership with the task force.

Exactly.

Any other questions, council, uh folks in the audience?

Any comment that you'd like to make?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Uh Michelle Braun, how are you?

Good, thank you.

I'm delighted that this is so well received and that the council is so um interested in advancing it.

And I just want to say on behalf of friends of the Winooski that we are a partner of the city as well, and we work, you know, we work closely with the river access um collective in Barrie, but we will be looking out for opportunities to fundraise for um for implementation on these.

So hopefully we can work together on them and see that um that payoff in five years.

That'd be awesome.

Thank you.

So you know what I'd love to see.

You've got um you've got a great group here in terms of your steering committee.

I'd love to see the steering committee come to us with one, pick one.

And and look at us and say, okay, we challenge you to get this funded in six months and get it done in 13.

We'll get it done.

So like I said, it would be really helpful to see the steering committee because you've got a great steering committee prioritize these sites, although I got I have to say the Spaulding High School site would have to be in my top three.

But that would be great.

Just tell us what to do, and we'll do it, okay?

We're not always great at consensus and choices, but if we're given a good solid recommendation as a group, we tend to pull together and get stuff done.

Yes.

I just want to add to the um the issue up at rotary park.

Um if we get in there and we clean it up, we open it up.

We found that up at the cow pasture.

We had problems with people doing illegal things up to cow pasture.

We cleaned the area, we opened up, did some cutting, made it easier for everybody to get in there.

And once you do that, the bad behavior kind of moves to a different spot.

So I'm not as concerned about those spots because I know we can take care of them.

Understood, yes.

I also just want to say I I believe you, Councilor Bergeron, and definitely uh believe that once we make these places nice and open and welcoming, that those negative behaviors, those unwanted behaviors that we're seeing for the most part will go away because it will drive more of the positive um impacts that we're looking for.

Um I'm so pumped about this because often in the summer, me and the family are always looking for somewhere to go other than the pool.

Um, and you kind of have to take a drive.

So if you could just go down to the river and cool off, um, it'd be great.

So I know that that's something that's really important to many of the people within this community.

So thank you for all the work that you and everybody on the task force is doing.

It's great work.

Anything else, council?

Or members of the audience?

Once again, to all of you who have been working on this, thank you.

I know it it's taken a lot of time, you've put a lot of time into it.

Uh it's not going to be a study that sits somewhere and is looked back on fondly in 10 years.

It's going to be something that, you know, on some level is implemented, and hopefully, I mean, my preference would be implemented within the next fiscal year.

Because we, you know, we have these opportunities with, you know, I mean, we've got we still have CDBGDR funds that were available.

And uh, you know, one of our applications actually included the Air Street site, and it was River Access.

Um, you know, I suspect the state will be seeing that one again in the second round.

Um, so you know, there are always opportunities out there if you can dig hard enough and deep enough to take advantage of them.

So, you know, thanks sincerely, thank you for your good work.

Awesome.

So, council, we will move on to, and you are welcome to stay for the balance of the meeting.

I understand if you don't.

Um council, we're gonna move on to uh item 8 C on the agenda.

This is our citywide reappraisal briefing.

Mr.

Martin, Ms.

Martin, consultants, honored guests, members of the cabinet.

I am not a coward, I won't come to the here.

Hello.

My name is Carly, I'm the assistant assessor.

Um you can just say it.

I mean, holy cow.

It's just the Barry City Council, you know.

It's not like we're a court.

Yeah, it's not like you're gonna get fined and thrown in jail.

Um ask us to come talk about the reappraisal.

I'll just make it together as well powerful.

Um, we're gonna start at a pretty basic level and kind of build into something more popular.

Um, so that's me.

I'm Larry Martin.

Um I've been appraising, I've been a commercial appraiser for 40 years.

Um for about 30, I've run a business out of Montpelier Martin appraisal services, and we do commercial real estate appraising uh around the state.

Um we have five employees, and four of them are Martins.

Um we uh someone kept bugging me about the open uh uh assessor job in Barrie City and asking us to come in and talk to them.

And so we did that and decided we would take it on.

Um assessing is kind of new, we know how to appraise uh properties, but assessing there's a lot of different rules and regulations, and Carly's been uh le taking the lead on learning a lot of that and learning a lot of the programs.

Uh so we've been doing it for Barrie City for about a year now.

Um, how's that gone?

You know, we haven't had a check-in.

No, seriously, because it's my fault that you're here.

Right.

I've known Larry for I didn't want to say that.

I've known Larry for literally decades, and as we were searching for an appraiser, and I knew that Larry was bringing his kids into the business, and um, you know, and looking to step back a little bit from Martin appraisal services, I said, you know, Larry, would you consider this position?

So I lied.

I said it's a cushy job.

And he came in and spoke with Nicholas and it worked out.

And honestly, Larry, I'm just uh as mayor and as a resident, I'm happy to have you and Carly aboard.

I mean, you bring a lot of integrity and professionalism, and you know, I lied, it's not a cushy job, but um, you know, I just hope you'll forgive me.

So you think it's going okay?

Yeah, it's going pretty well.

I passed a lot of the work on to Carly.

So that's a good part of it.

Well, I didn't speak with Carly, so that is his fault.

Yeah.

I'll just say this is that I'm my name's Matt Krajewski.

I'm the uh assessing consultant, the reappraisal vendor, Carly from working with her short term here, is one of the most dedicated young professionals that I've seen come into this career in a long time.

I think that you're really lucky here in this city to have somebody like her and her professionalism, her willing to want to learn to be better.

Um, so I think you have a real opportunity here to grow somebody internally, and um, I'm really impressed with what I've seen so far.

Did she mention the two free drink tickets at the holiday party?

Well, that's included as well.

A lot of benefits working for Barry City, let me tell you.

And we like to have fun, for sure.

This is just a little bit about me.

Um, I have a bachelor's degree from the University of Vermont.

I'm a licensed certified general real estate appraiser, um, which requires obtaining over 300 official education hours.

Um I've worked for Martin Cruiser Services for three years, and before that I did five years as an emergency nurse.

Um, our role in Barry City, we started in December of 2023.

Some of the things we regularly manage for you as assessors include homestead verification, equalization study permits with permits that involves us going out and checking um checking on um any new developments or if a buildings had a fire and that requires annual changes, um, updating properties, verifying inactive particles, tax exemptions, tax credits, tax stabilization.

We manage the grievance and appeals on a yearly basis.

And um any updates that come from surveys like subdivision sales of deeds, and then we also answer any questions or concerns.

Before we get too far into everything, I thought it would be good to start with a couple basic definitions.

Um many of you might already be aware of these terms, but it's helpful to go over them again.

Um, assessed values, those are property valuation that's used for property taxes.

Um fair market value is defined for us by the state of Vermont.

It's the estimated fair market value of a property, is the price that the property will bring in the market when offered for sale and purchased by another.

That definition goes much longer.

I shortened it.

Umessor is hired or appointed by a municipality to maintain the annual grand list.

It differs from a lister who's an elected official.

And just for clarification, Matt is a contracted appraiser who's doing the mass appraisal for the reappraisal.

So he's only here for the reappraisal, whereas the assessors annually manage the grand list.

The grand list is all the assessed values of all the properties in a given year and the basis on which the tax rates are set.

Common level appraisal, that's the ratio of assessed values to sale prices.

That's provided annually to us from PVR.

It's based on a three-year average.

Um the coefficient of dispersion is also to statistical measure of equity in the grand list, also provided by PVR annually for us.

Grievance is a written notice provided in a timely manner that appeals an assessed value.

Um every year annually, taxpayers have the option to grieve a property value.

Um, and we can go through the process with them all.

Um this is just the assessed values in action.

So this is comes from the state website.

This is a tax bill sample.

Um, you can see A is the assessed value, it's then multiplied by your municipal tax rate in C.

Um, and then D is the um D and E are the assessed values multiplied by tax rates.

Then we come down, F and G are gonna be your total tax amount, and I is gonna be it broken down um into each period.

So it's just helpful here to see how assessed values are actually used to produce your tax bill.

What is reappraisal?

Um, we're doing a complete reappraisal, which is a reassessment of all the properties in the town.

Um this includes interior property inspections, development of new land and building pricing schedules, and adjustments and factors.

The goal must be to implement new values for all properties that reflect 100% of merit fair market value.

That comes to us from PVR from the state, that's what they want.

What it'll generate is all properties will be reset to the current market, and everyone will receive a new assessed value.

Why is Barrie City doing reappraisal?

Barry City has been ordered to do reappraisal based on the coefficient of dispersion.

You'll see your CLA and COD over here year over year.

The coefficient of dispersion measures equity in the grand list and is provided by PVR.

Vermont town's reappraise when the COD rises over 20.

A COD of 10 or less is considered good.

Your COD went over 20 in 2022, and it's been rising steadily ever since.

That's probably related to our work falling up on permits and all of this.

No complete reappraisal has been done in over 20 years, which is quite a long time.

New legislation is asking us to do it every six years.

So 20 is quite a distance.

As of June 2025, 151 towns in Vermont have orders to reappraise, which is about 59% of the municipalities.

And CLAs across across the state range from as low as 45.9% to as high as 11.

We also see CODs ranging from 1.57% all the way up to 41.

The average is 20.5%.

Who is that?

41%.

Kington's having some pretty much 40 41.12%.

Not a lot of equity there.

So it's hard for them to get some of these statistical measures really very close.

Yeah, you don't want to track track talk trash about another municipality.

I will be looking that up tomorrow.

Because it just has me curious, like who could be 41.12%.

In the appraisal process.

So in 2022, Barrie City executed a contract with New England municipal consultants to do a reappraisal for 2026-2027 tax year.

The reappraisal will be completed for the 2026-2027 grand list, so our valuation date will be April 1st of 2026.

Property owners can expect initial information regarding the new assessment values in early spring of 2026, early to late spring.

We sent out a commercial mailer recently to get income and expense information from our commercial property owners.

And they've also begun doing neighborhood delineation, which is an initial step in land valuation.

Letter I received.

That's pretty pretty personal.

I mean, I'd never ever been business a long time, never ever seen something like that.

And they make sure they show the statutes.

Why it's legal then for them to do that?

I'm just making it a note.

I can comment on that, counselor.

One of the things that we're at least attempting to do by sending those letters out is we'd like to consider the income approach to value versus just a straight cost approach less depreciation or a cost market hybrid.

So it's our opinion that considering the income approach, which certainly we did in Montpelier in 2023, will help us to understand better what some of the economic impacts of Barry in particular are.

So what are your typical rents?

Uh, what does typical vacancy look like?

What your typical expense ratios look like at that point, um, what we're trying to do, and it's it's a consideration of an approach to value.

So if we don't see enough of a return in terms of sending those letters out, we could potentially abandon that process, but I can use the income approach to test my cost market answer to see whether I have equitable answers that suit Barry that don't necessarily say, okay, how do I delineate between Barry commercial property and Burlington commercial property or Montpelier commercial property?

I don't think it would be fair to any commercial business owner in this community if I looked at it and I said, well, you know, how would it compare to if I just used a straight cost approach?

How would I be able to create a separation there?

So we're at least attempting to consider that.

So what if for reappraisal you're not a very good business person versus a good business person?

I mean that could change a lot in the front on the value of your property.

And and ultimately, ultimately, what we want to do is that I don't we don't necessarily need to consider actual income.

It's more of just averages as we kind of average them out.

Now, one of the uh in terms of use PAP standards here, we want to keep those internal confidential in terms of the individual returns, but ultimately what we do is we create more of a like an Excel spreadsheet that helps us to delineate what do typical rents look like.

What are we looking at?

First is sometimes actual income.

I'll give you an example.

I have a case in another community where uh an individual has chosen to advance the appeal to the superior court level and wants us to consider actual income in that case.

Now, a good portion of his uh I'll say lost income is his ability to basically donate the space to a local academy, a school at that point.

So it doesn't necessarily make that property all that it's worth, but he's choosing to utilize it in that way, whether it's a more charitable kind of a donation.

This we're trying to establish what a fair market value of that property is in particular.

Understood.

Um what about so what should a property owner do when their tenant, because you're talking about contract rights.

What when their tenant says, I don't want you telling people, I don't care if you list the amount, but I don't want you listing my name.

In other words, you know, that's part of our business model and what we've negotiated for rent, really have you know, we just don't want you using our name.

Because I I've heard that already from several people.

And you know, and you can explain to them, well, this is confidential, and they say, okay, can they provide me with a guarantee?

And do they understand that there could be litigation if someone finds out, you know, there's only one place they could get it, and that's the concern they have.

You know, I I'll say this to you, Mr.

Mayor, certainly, that it's a concern of mind that even if uh an appeal reaches something like a superior court level, okay, could potentially an appellant uh choose to subpoena somebody else's information.

I mean, at that point, I think we'd we'd have a decision to make at that point that typical use PAP standards say I shouldn't share that information.

And that's why at least I've mentioned to you we want to consider that approach to value.

If we feel though that the returns are either there aren't enough of them or we don't have enough useful information there, we may choose to just abandon that approach ultimately and then use the and then just use the comparable sales.

It would ultimately be a cost, uh cost market hybrid is what we would use.

We just we just hope that we would have enough data to be able to back up that approach to value because you ultimately have three approaches to value at that point.

So abandoning the income approach would certainly limit our approaches at that point.

Yeah.

And that's reasonable because I mean, let's face it, you you could get comparables, for example, on warehouse space.

Uh, you know, versus a restaurant, which obviously might be the same amount of space, but a very, very different level of finish.

Um, so okay, so I get it.

Um, go ahead.

Sorry.

Um the next part of this is just talking a little bit more about what homeowners can expect.

Um the CLA in Barrie is 67.62%.

This means that assessed values are about 67.62% of sale prices over the past three years.

Um, as you know, the market has been rising pretty rapidly.

The median sale price um from Vermont property tax return in 2020 was 152,000 in Barrie City.

Um in 2024 is 243,000.

Um that's about a 60% property value increase in this.

The important thing for people to understand is the CLA is a three-year average, so it doesn't only reflect this year, it takes in account the past two years.

Um that number is not, it was likely a little bit lower if we're just looking at a single previous year.

Um based on this data we anticipate, most homeowners will see a substantial increase in their assessed values from their current assessed values now.

Right.

But you always got to caution them.

I mean, that could you go back to the slide for a minute?

I mean, this is really interesting because I mean, obviously, they get our CLA from sales from comparable sales.

So, you know, and it doesn't quite work this way, but what I would tell people in advance is you're likely to see a 50% increase in your value.

And you've always got outliers on average, it looks like, because our CLA is 67.62%.

If your home is currently assessed for 200,000, you're on average going to get an assessment of 300,000.

Now, some people might get an assessment that's more.

They've done some work, they have a higher level of finish, they have granite countertops, they redid a killer kitchen.

Well, you know, you'll inspect the interior, make your notations, and uh obviously reassess based on that.

But as long as you know, that's always a sticker shock when people get reassessed because they look at a 50% increase in assessment, and their home goes from 200 to 300, and they automatically think my taxes are going up by 50%.

They're not.

If everyone goes up on average 50%, your taxes really aren't going to move at all.

And so that's what folks really, you know, get past that sticker shock and ask the right question, which is overall, what is everyone going up?

And you know, we all see these prices.

We see what's you know, we look at homes when you live here, we'll look at a listing where a house is listed for 425,000, and you remember when one of your friends sold it five years ago for 150,000.

It's it's you know, so we're we're going to see increases, and and property owners certainly are going to see increases, but they're gonna be fair.

Um, you know, that's what you're really desperately trying to do.

You may get a few wrong here or there, and folks will have the opportunity to come in and say, well, this is this is why, you know, you you made a mistake here.

I I don't have a full bath, I have a three-quarter bath.

And you'll make the appropriate adjustment.

We'll get through it.

It'll be fine.

Our goal is to achieve equality in the grand list.

So if you remember the COD is 24%, this is telling us that there's inequality in the grand list.

So if we can get that back down to 10 and everyone can be on a more equal playing field, then everyone will be paying their fair share of the budget.

They are gonna be in for a big sticker shock, though, is kind of what we were trying to say.

And that 67% is a three-year average, and it's based on because 25 isn't over, so it's based on sales in 24, 23, and 22.

I think I think to the mayor's point, though, just in terms of the relativity to the new baseline that we're gonna create.

So we're gonna create new parameters ultimately that everyone in the entire city is going to be subjected to.

So again, when we talk about sticker shock, when everybody rises proportionately at the same level at that point, there is that equity there in terms of being now subjected to whether it's tax rates or what it might be.

So I appreciate that point that you made.

Um will properties get more in property owners get more information.

In the spring, property owners will first receive preliminary values.

Um England municipal consultants always releases permanent preliminary values in a preliminary grant list.

This allows for them to hold informational discussions with property owners as an initial point of contact.

Um I don't know, do you want to talk anymore about the discussion?

Sure.

Yeah, so like all the the informational discussions phase that we host, anyways, as a company, it's all pre-abstract grand list.

So this is before your assessors ultimately have sent out their legal change of appraisal notices, legally outlining what what these new values look like.

So it's a way that we're able to, and you've you've made the point already, Mr.

Mayor, we're able to sit with property owners to discuss the process, hear any concerns that they may have, consider any potential incorrect data that we may have on our end, and consider a change ultimately prior to that abstract grant list being filed.

What that ultimately does is I think it creates transparency in your community uh where people are listened to.

Uh people have an opportunity to ask their own questions, certainly, and hopefully one of the byproducts of hosting that is it reduces the amount of grievances that your assessors ultimately have.

If there are changes that uh we feel like we can make in good faith and still maintain the integrity of a fair assessment, that's ultimately something that we like to do.

I'm not here to certainly pretend that initially we have hit the nail on every single one of these, and you know, I have all the answers, and it's exactly what I tell you ultimately it is.

So we'd like to at least reconsider uh for that stage that will come in the form of preliminary notices of value to property owners uh that in a minimum of two weeks after those notices begin to resonate, we will host those meetings.

Those meetings will include evenings, they will include a Saturday option as well, just to allow for people ultimately that work and have busy schedules to attend, should they choose to do so.

I think they'll also help if um people haven't gotten this information quite yet.

They'll have a chance to talk to Matt more about how he came up with the numbers that he came up with.

Um it's a really important opportunity for the public to engage in the reappraisal process.

Um instructions regarding the process will be included in the notice of preliminary valuation.

Um after that is the grievance process, um, which property owners have the opportunity to appeal to the assessing department.

Um after grievance, property owners can also go to the BCA level of appeals, um, which I'm sure some of you are more familiar with.

Um additional important information that we wanted to let the public know about.

Um property owners have already received a letter in the mail about reappraisal with an opportunity to schedule site visit.

Um reappraisal staff and Barrie City personnel carry identification.

Please don't allow anyone to your home without identification.

Um and if you feel uncomfortable with someone being there, you can always call our office and we can schedule another time to come to your property.

Um property owners with active permits should anticipate additional property inspections.

Um if you're actively doing construction on your property, we will probably return to check-in on the permit.

Um reappraisal is about creating equity and fairness in the grand list, and we really appreciate the community support and continued cooperation with the process.

Um we are unable to tell anyone their reappraisal assessed value at this time or the implications on their property taxes.

Um unfortunately, that information is just not available yet, and we'll make it available to everybody with the preliminary values.

Um please make sure your mailing address is updated with the town's clerk's office to make sure you receive all the mailings.

Um they'll be going to that address.

Um we have hired a new assessing clerk, Catherine, who's here at the same over 40 years, retired in November.

We're very grateful for her commitment and dedication throughout her career.

Um, the new clerk is Patrick Gilbert.

He worked for the Vermont Food Bank for 23 years.

He'll regularly be in the office from 7:30 a.m.

to 4:30 p.m.

Monday through Friday.

Please join us in welcoming him.

And then the last slide is just some additional resources.

Um we are regularly holding um office hours in person Tuesday and Friday from 8 a.m.

to 12 p.m.

But we can also meet with people by appointment as needed.

Um, and you can always reach out to us via email or call.

Questions, folks?

I also reappraisal was to add money to the brand list like isn't it?

It's you know, it's just a process.

And look, over the years, um I've had the opportunity to work with the assessor to work with Carly and work with Larry.

When I don't feel a property is properly assessed.

The one thing that we are going to absolutely insist on, because you know, again, some people open that letter, they see their property increasing by 50% in terms of its value, and they make that leap to my property taxes are increasing by 50%.

Don't be ignorant, know all the facts before you call Larry and Carly.

And if you call them, I'll tell people in advance.

If you go in guns of blazing, you know, dropping F bombs and saying, you buy my property for this, we're gonna escort you to the door and tell you to come back when you can behave like an adult.

I I just think they're gonna, it's gonna be again.

It happens.

I understand all this.

I just think you know, we did a lot of things.

First of all, I would have sent out registered letters because people cannot reply and say, Oh, I sent it to get lost in the mail.

Or if it was a registered letter, they have to reply.

It's not the only method, though, counselor.

I mean, you know, if they get a great response, we'll use that method.

If they don't get a good response, I mean, there's always a way to reappraise a property.

You can look at, you know, you can look at the sales in the area and say, okay, on average, uh, you know, commercial industrial property sells for this, uh, uh duplex sells for this, or triplex.

You know, that's information that they're really good at what they do.

They can come up with it.

67% is surprised me.

But I would space my apartments on 20%.

23, stuff of that nature.

But it's a good, I guess, for the landowner.

Carol, when was the last time we did a partial reappraisal?

It was 2000.

Statistical in 20 in 2006, uh full in 2008.

Yeah, so we did a statistical reappraisal in 2006, and I remember even back then, even though it wasn't a complete the reaction of some people and what our staff went through, and we're just not gonna do a repeat of that at all.

So it'll be it will be fine at the end of the day.

I totally say the more concerning statistic to me is the coefficient of dispersion.

When you have a coefficient of dispersion that's 24%, what that's telling me is there's no uniformity amongst like properties.

So people are paying more than their fair share, they're paying less than their fair share.

So ultimately, what our goal is here to create more of an equitable playing field.

Like properties should be assessed in a like manner.

People should be treated in a fair manner, certainly.

So that to me, the the CLA, I think can be a little bit deceiving in terms of where you're at.

I mean, you know, not to you know cause a stir by saying this, but I mean, if your your assessor engages in practices like sales chasing, as an example, you can artificially keep your CLA within compliance from the previous COD at that point.

When I'm seeing a COD that certainly north of 20%, almost 25%, I'm looking at really no equity being established in the community.

We want to re-establish that.

Perfect.

Yes, Bernadette Bern Rose, rather.

It's okay if you call me Bernadette.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I just uh really appreciate having these people who are such professionals, well spoken, explain very thoroughly this whole process.

Because I remember a few years ago when we did not have people like them on board, and it was a pretty willy-nilly thing.

And it might be some of the reason you're seeing what you see, is it depended upon who you were as to uh whether or not how your appraisal was uh fair.

Um I don't own a home here, but I do pay rent.

And how does um when you're coming to visit?

I was here and uh you all showed up, and I forgot if there was a letter that came, and you said, Oh, can we measure the outside of the house?

Anna's like, sure, have at it.

Um, are you going in and inspecting the interior of people's houses?

What are you doing with that?

Thankful.

Do you want to take that?

You're the Certainly we are making we are making attempts to inspect the interiors.

I mean, uh our philosophy certainly is interior finishes, uh, interior attributes are ultimately going to drive what a market value looks like.

But I will say that that is a decision that the property owner makes whether or not they want to permit entry.

Um, I would say this to you is that as we reach uh either an informational discussion level, certainly into an appeal phase at that point, it's going to become more important that we've inspected the interior to really be able to delineate what a home is.

So uh to answer your question, yes, we want to make an attempt to uh do interior inspections, uh, but certainly we have no right to force entry into anyone's home or to do anything.

It is ultimately a decision that a property owner would make if they would like us to come in and to inspect.

Thanks.

You said you were you know you were welcome to come in, but you said no, not today.

So maybe we'll see you again.

Okay, perfect.

Um I apologize if uh that was the circumstance in particular there.

Um, you know, in terms of my data guys that I have out there, I'm not uh one of the primary data guys.

I have my data guys come here to recollect.

Certainly they are I asked them to make an attempt to inspect.

So um I apologize certainly if if uh you had uh attempted to permit entry and the individual had said you know exterior only at that point.

Uh we'd certainly be happy to come back out and to re-inspect if you'd like us to.

I'll talk to my landlady.

Council Gustin.

Um I just want to say that uh first of all, I've I've deeply appreciated working with our assessors uh from the point of view of the board of assessors.

They've been professional, thorough, really know their stuff.

Um, and I'm I'm confident that they'll help us shepherd through this process admirably.

And then I also to speak to Burns' point, I was the person who led um the inspector around my house, and they were courteous and kind and very thorough.

And I think this is a really important step for the city as we've spoken about earlier tonight.

It's been far too long since we've done it, uh, and this allows us to sort of set the playing field level uh for everyone in the city again.

That's I think the more I appreciated the way it was so thoughtfully and thoroughly explained.

I think the more we explain to folks that this really is about leveling the playing field for everyone and making sure that everything's fair across all property owners in Barrie City.

Uh I think that's really important for people to keep understanding.

Thank you.

Anything else, council?

Folks, thank you very much.

Great presentation.

And uh like I say to everyone, you're welcome to say, but I understand if you don't.

I'm a Northeast Kingdom.

Uh I'd leave.

Thank you again.

Council, we'll move on to uh item 8D on the agenda.

This is a discussion regarding our state legislative priorities.

Senator Watson, Representative Wazuzak, uh thank you for being here.

I actually did get a text message from uh Representative Bootin, he's not feeling well online, Mr.

Mayor.

Oh, he's about it.

Oh he mean it.

Representative Bouden, welcome.

You feeling any better?

No.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, Michael.

Uh so thank you for being so patient and uh waiting for almost two hours.

We we appreciate you and appreciate your time.

So uh council, I guess would would you two like to start a little bit about?

I mean, you've already had a briefing in terms of uh what the session is likely to look like, what the priorities are going to be from a statewide level.

Some of those, yeah, I know it was probably depressing.

The uh term that was used by the pro tem was that this session will be a nightmare and not a not a dream.

So if you want to so I mean, where do you see the priorities on statewide level?

Obviously, we're hearing a lot about education reform.

Um so why don't you just run through where we're both I'm sorry, talk I don't can you introduce yourself?

I would say I'm sorry, Senderian Watson.

Hi, everyone, I am Ann Watson.

I'm one of the three senators for the Washington district.

I actually live here in Barrie in Barrie City.

Um just moved here uh a couple years ago, actually.

Um yeah, so I am on uh the appropriations committee, and I am also the chair of the Senate Natural Resources and Energy Committee.

Uh this is my second term, and uh my my second time on the Natural Resources and Energy Committee.

Prior to that, I was on the government operations committee.

Uh I think probably mainly I was put there because I am a former mayor of Montpelier, uh, actually.

So um I don't know that we overlapped.

Uh we like with the We did not overlap.

I served with John Holler.

Yes.

Um in any case, um, but to the question about what we anticipate for the priorities for the session.

I mean, the two uh big ones that I think are going to dominate are the the it's really about money.

I guess if we boiled it down to one.

Uh so the one being uh what are we doing about education and the property taxes, and the second being particularly about uh health care and the budget, uh because we're anticipating a significant amount of uh reduction from the federal government in terms of support, especially for Medicaid, and that makes up um you know, I I don't have the the data right now to tell you what percentage that is of the state budget, but it's significant.

And it's significant to the point that if we tried to backfill that with state dollars, it it would just not be possible.

We there's no way that we can, as a state, make up that difference.

You know, at a forum that we were recently at, uh someone asked us the question about you know, we've seen the state budget creeping up and up and up over time.

And in large part, that is actually because we have had a lot of federal dollars through flowing through the state.

Uh and we are not likely to see that uh again this year.

And so perhaps for the first time in many years, we're actually anticipating that we actually may have a smaller budget.

Um I feel like I should leave the education portion to uh Representative Wazizak.

Sure.

Um so education, and I also want to point out that education is a topic that you know every every issue that we're thinking about, whether it is affordability, whether it is property taxes, whether it is housing availability, whether it is health health care, all of those are tied up in the education conversation.

Aren't we the we're the highest pursuant in the whole country last late for education as far as cost?

Well, it it it depends on what metric you're looking at.

If you're looking at statewide averages, whether uh as opposed to in Barrie, where we have the one of the lowest per pupil spending rates um in the state.

So even you know, even though our property taxes continue to go up in Barrie City, we are spending among the least per student, as anyone in the state of Vermont.

So my biggest issue when we're looking at the um the education reform bill, the various education reform bills that we're looking at is right now our students are not getting what they need.

They're not getting what they need in terms of social services, and they're not getting what they need in terms of support from teachers because our teachers are understaffed and underpaid.

Senator Watson is a teacher, so can speak to that much better than I can.

Um and our property taxes are continuing up.

So when our kids aren't getting what they need, when our teachers are under-resourced and underpaid, and when our property taxes are going up, that is not a system that is working.

And that I think that that vision of having you know, parents know that their kids are safe in school, having teachers that are paid what they should be paid and supported by the community, and having kids get what they need.

I think that's possible, but it it calls for whole-scale reform of the system that we're currently using.

So Act 73 last year, which was the big education reform bill, basically did two big things.

The first thing it did is it restricted um public dollars going to private schools.

Before Act 73, there were over a hundred private schools getting public tax dollars, including schools that were not in the United States.

There were Quebec schools getting Vermont tax dollars.

That has been severely restricted, and that is now less than 25 schools, private schools getting public dollars.

The other thing that Act 73 did, as I'm sure you've seen in the news, was uh call together this task force to suggest um what new school districts may look like.

That task force has come back and said that they are um suggesting voluntary mergers, and I'm getting deja vu all over again when it comes to the Barry City conversation about voluntary mergers.

Um and so what what um in a moment of unanimity, what the governor has said, what the pro uh pro tem in the Senate has said, and what the speaker has said is that everything is on the table.

You know, forced mergers are on the table, voluntary mergers are on the table.

Wholescale reform of how we pay for and who pays for property taxes is on the table, the whole gamut.

Because, like I said a minute ago, the system is just not working for us.

And um, if the system that was imagined by Act 73 would be to put in place, our per pupil spending in Barry would go up by over $2,000 per kid, but our property taxes would still go down.

That's a system that works, and we are going to have to, you know, frankly fight like hell over the next five months to make sure that the outcomes of that bill, regardless of what maps look like, regardless of the fact that it's an election year, regardless of the politics, regardless of whether it's the governor or the legislature pushing any one issue.

My main thing with education reform is fixing that um you know perfect storm that Barry's facing in terms of our support for the schools, the outcomes for our kids, and the outcomes when it comes to property tax bills.

So when the legislature reconvenes, we will hear the report.

Um I'm on the Ways and Means Committee, which governs taxation and education finance.

Um so we will be getting the full report and diving deep into the 200-page report that is the redistricting task force.

Um but to me, it just boils down to making sure that parents are confident that their kids are safe and getting the supports that they need in schools.

It's making sure that our kids are getting what they need in terms of education and social supports, and it's making sure that the administrators and the teachers who, you know, do God's work in our school every day, know that the community has their back and that they get paid uh what they deserve to be.

And that's how I approach the education conversations.

And you know, I I sit with folks who are from the Northeast Kingdom, and their main concern is making sure that their one schoolhouse in their one town doesn't close.

Um, and those concerns are just as valid as what I know the whole Barry City delegation's concerns are, which is those three things that I pointed out earlier.

So that's the high view on education reform.

And yeah, I mean, our our education fund is in trouble, our general fund is in trouble, our transportation fund is in trouble, the financial situation of the state is going to be really severe due largely to cuts uh coming from Washington, DC and the federal government.

So Raymond.

Representative Putin, is there anything you'd like to add?

No, I mean education reform is definitely high on the list of things that need to be done.

Um a big fan of the foundation formula.

Um I'm also I supported the Act 73, so yeah.

I think that I was a little disappointed that the task force didn't do what they were supposed to do, but it is what it is.

Yeah, and that was uh so you know we could we can jump right into it.

Yeah.

Again, I understand.

I mean, I as I look at I agree with you, Representative Wazak.

I mean, the you know the formula is just broken.

It's just not working.

And you know, the problem is, and I hate being if I just step up here and slap me if I sound like, well, when I was a kid, if I start sounding like one of those guys.

But I remember when I first started school in New Jersey, my bus ride was out when I was in kindergarten was 40 minutes each way.

You know, we we lived in a coastal town, and and we didn't have an elementary school.

So, you know, and we've we've had the luxury in so many municipalities, towns and cities in Vermont.

You know, we've had these schools, even right here at Spaulding High School that used to have 400 children in every graduating class.

Now you would know better than I, Counselor Spaulding, but it's half, give or take, maybe not quite that.

You know, it shrunk.

But the building, but but and when people say then, why isn't it cheaper?

Well, because even though you have less children in a classroom, you still have to teach them algebra, you still have to teach them a language, you still have to teach them English.

It's not so the kind of obvious solution is well, then bring children from other municipalities who may have a high school or an elementary school and combine them and get the class size back up to you know 32 or so kids.

That's easier said than done because I'm the mayor of a community that likely will not lose a school.

Um if I lived in Chelsea or Callous, I may be talking a totally different.

So listen, I understand the enormity and I understand the difficulty of fixing that.

You know, it's one of the few times I'm grateful to be mayor because I just get to deal with the municipal issues.

So going into the municipal municipal issues, sort of my wish list, um, I'd really like to see us start working towards a regional, whether it's by county, by watershed, flood mitigation commission.

So rather than saying to every municipality, you're on your own, um, and we may have to sort of force people to the table, because like many things, there are municipalities like Barrie and Mop Tillyer who happen to sit in a little bit of a valley, and then there are municipalities that send their stormwater to us.

Um the best way, you know, if you really want to if you really want to do flood mitigation, stop the water before it gets here.

But the problem is I have zero jurisdiction beyond Jockey Hollow.

So I I can't go to Washington, I can't go to Williamstown, I can't go to Plainfield and say, look, this is what we need to do.

There's a lot of real estate here.

And even if you just would allow us to do this work here, we could we we could save our residents a lot of pain because we would stop and disperse the water before it got to be.

Once it gets to Barrie City, we can talk about flood mitigation all we want.

But I think Councillor Gustin would agree there's not a whole lot we can do once it's here, other than try to dig really deep floodplains, and we have limited space to do that where we can deal with the floodwater.

So that would be my my first establish some sort of regional flood mitigation commission and at least get us talking reasonably because the and I think you were at the meeting, I think Councillor Guskin, you were at the meeting and perhaps others.

Um we had some good regional meetings where there were people from Washington and and Williamstown and and Plainfield who stepped up and said we should all work together.

And it it gave me hope.

So I'd like to see us at least provide some some studies where or funding mechanism or something where we could take a more regional approach to flood mitigation.

Um you know, speaking of flood mitigation, I hope we keep funding it.

I know it's tough.

Even on some level, um, you know, we tend in government to sometimes have a short memory.

So we'll, you know, the floodwater's gone, we cleaned up the dirt, and now we're on to the next problem, you know, as opposed to uh like our paving, for example, as I told the manager, um council increased that uh our paving budget by 30 percent.

That's a big number.

Uh because our residents were telling us your roads stink.

So we responded, and yes, we had to raise property taxes to do it, but we did more paving.

We're going to do that again this year.

You're going to see an increase of that same magnitude until we get to a three-quarter million dollar level, because that's where we need to be.

Um I hope the state on some level, even if it's on a matching program, continues to flood um fund flood mitigation.

Um transportation fund, you mentioned that.

That affects municipalities.

I mean uh Joe Flynn is a wonderful working partner, but when we go from 27 to 2030 uh on paving 302 Main Street, and you know, and the road does this, it it's not gonna last to 2030.

You know, and these are 27.

These are hard conversations to have, because folks who drive electric vehicles uh and and folks who drive more efficient vehicles, even though that is a great thing for our for our environment, it's not a great thing for our roads.

It's it's the worst thing they could do.

The best thing they could do is drive a 12,000 pound diesel F-250.

Just to connect those gas people, they don't pay the gas those folks who described the gas tax, which brings in less money.

And we could do it.

So because well, because obviously if you drive an electric vehicle, uh, and there are hybrids, but generally speaking, if you drive a Tesla, you're not purchasing gas.

But you're still driving down the road, you are the same weight as my car, which is not an electric vehicle.

I'm paying into the gas tax significantly, and which obviously funds the transportation budget.

Folks who drive an electric vehicle aren't.

But they could.

It would be so easy using charge point to just run up charge.

One of the questions that I would have for you is something that has been kicked around by the transportation committee is uh a mileage-based registration fee.

So if instead of depending on the gas tax, the idea being if you use more, if you're if you're driving more miles, you're using the roads more, perhaps your registration fee could go towards uh you know helping to pay for those roads, making up some of that gap.

Don't know if if uh people would be amenable to that, uh, that is a possibility, but that is one uh tool that I know people are discussing right now.

Yeah, and I think that's important because I'm not aware when I asked the question, you know, are are we as a state are our licensed vehicles driving less miles, even you know, the Amazon delivery folks.

I mean, you know, it's it's not a problem.

The data's there, we just have to figure it out.

There's going to be a lot of voices at the table because you know, Amazon will say, Oh, we don't want you, you know, charging us, even though I honestly believe, I mean, knowing how far, you know, a tractor trailer can go.

A tractor trailer can drive from Boston through New Hampshire, through Vermont, turn around, go back through Vermont, go back through New Hampshire, and they're fueling up in Massachusetts, where they're based, but they didn't drive on their roads.

They don't pay they didn't pay us for use the cars.

It's a complex issue.

It really is.

And I know you're a thoughtful, I I know you're gonna at least figure you're at least going to propose some solutions.

And and they're not gonna be equitable.

You know, they're not gonna be fair to everyone.

But we but the transportation fund, that is one that's just you know, it's near and dear to my heart.

I pay attention to it, and um it's in trouble.

It is I mean, it is in serious trouble.

It's bankrupt.

And it and it essentially.

So, you know, less revenue coming in from gas tax is also a flood recovery issue in that sense, just to underscore how how to your point, how complicated and how much how many different interests have to be balanced when talking about any of these things.

Right.

Uh counselor Gustin's apologies.

Um I don't want to jump in the middle of your list if you're done.

I was I think mostly getting in the queue.

What's that?

Your list of priority if you're done.

Are you done with your list of priorities?

So that I have one more.

Then I will wait until you are.

Oh, okay, thanks.

And I brought a PowerPoint.

No, uh housing.

The surprise.

So again, something near and dear to my heart.

Uh I know of I know a little bit about building things.

Um I've done it for decades.

And even for someone who is well established and well funded, and my company is, it is tough and it is horrifying.

Um it's gonna take, if we're gonna really bend the housing curve, it's gonna take something really bold.

It's not, you know, sorry, but the in a and when I say these things, I don't want anyone to ever think I don't appreciate them.

But a $2,000 efficiency Vermont rebate isn't gonna cut it.

You know, that's not going to, when someone has to spend uh 450,000, and I and I can send you a copy of this, uh, when someone has to spend 450,000 to build a home, which means they have to have a $90,000 down payment.

Um, many of our younger families, you know, people who have student loans, um, you know, for them to save $90,000 when everything is so expensive is really hard.

And I get these views because I talk to my son is $32, my daughter's $31, and I talk to their friends.

They're fortunate enough to own their own homes.

They grew up differently than I did.

And mom and dad could help, and I'm glad we could.

And a lot of their friends are discouraged.

And when I talk to their friends about, well, you know, they're renting now and their rent is $2,000 a month, they'd like to buy a home, they'd like to have children, they'd like to start a family, and they don't feel like they can afford it.

And you know, it's going to, if we're really going to be serious about changing our trajectory with regard to housing, it's going to take something really bold.

So this is my idea.

I've thrown it out there to folks.

Um it's basically a statewide subsidy program.

We're in some respects, we're we're mortgaging our future a little bit.

And it starts from a conversation that I had with a senator a couple of years ago, and I said, if you if you could um make 200 homes fall out of the sky in central Vermont, and the only catch was you couldn't collect property tax revenue for them for 10 years.

And the only catch was you couldn't collect property tax revenue for them for 10 years.

Would you do it?

And they didn't even hesitate, they said absolutely.

And they said because you know they'd bring a vibrancy and they'd shop at our stores, and we'd get, you know, we'd get income tax from them, and you know, we'd get other taxes just than property tax.

And they said, so absolutely I would.

And I started thinking about that.

So, you know, in this example, if you had uh, so let's say you got a lot in Barry City, it's a $25,000 lot.

And with the assessors just here, these numbers are going to be way off.

But you build a home on that lot, and we're the city is going to assess it for $275,000.

And you agree to that.

We meet with you before you build the home, you show us the plans, we give them to our assessor, our assessor says it's gonna be a 200 uh $275,000 assessment, and we agree.

And so you build the home, and what the city of Barrie says is they say, okay, if our increment, you know, we talk about TIFF a lot, I'm a big believer in TIFF, our increment on that home that you're gonna build, when you're done building it, a $275,000 uh $250,000 increment is going to be $9,121 extra to Barrie City, education and municipal.

So what we're going to do is we're gonna take the present value of that increment over 10 years.

We're gonna figure out in this case, it happens to be $72,170, and we're gonna give you a check for $72,000 to help defray the cost of building that home.

Um obviously the catch is you have to pay your property taxes for 10 years.

Well, you have to pay your property taxes anyway.

So we're not asking, you know, it it's a true buy down in terms of cost to the homeowner.

The municipality goes out, they essentially either through the bond bank or through the HFA, the municipality actually borrows.

I mean, we have to come up with the 72 grand.

So we actually borrow uh from the bond bank from VHFA, $72,170.

We pay it back over 4.5% interest, the municipality does.

Obviously, the $9,000 annual payment, that's coming from the homeowner.

And over so essentially for 10 years, the municipality and education fund would see a little bit like if property taxes went up by 5%.

Well, they'd get that little bit of money, but admittedly, they're not collecting property taxes on these homes for 10 years, much like our TIFF program.

Um to the municipality, and I've thought it through.

The only risk to the municipality, we get our property taxes.

If someone knows the IRS money and they put a lien on someone's home, we're still getting our property taxes.

We will get our money, municipalities, we'll put them up for tax sale if they don't.

You know, someone is going to pay the property taxes on that home before they pay their bank, before they pay the IRS, before they pay the state of Vermont.

You know, municipal taxes and education taxes are really bulletproof.

So the municipality's risk of loss, you know, if you say, well, what if they don't pay the property taxes, then you can't pay your debt and the municipality goes bankrupt.

No, someone always has to pay the property taxes.

We collect them in arrears, we collect them, you know, we we just do.

We're bulletproof on that.

The only way that the property taxes could not get paid is if the place burned to the ground or got wiped out in the flood.

But you can insure against that.

So you can buy insurance that would insure against that risk of loss.

So, you know, God forbid someone is in this program, and in year two, their house burns.

You could actually ensure the municipality and the homeowner could actually ensure that risk of loss, and the municipality receives the balance on the loan and says, you know, I'm sorry this happened to you, but the municipality is whole.

Um you could do a program like this, it's different.

There's no doubt about it.

It doesn't have to be 10 years, it doesn't have to be five years, but my point to the administration, every time I get a chance to make the point, my point to legislators, to representatives and senators is that it's gonna take something big.

And to date, I haven't seen us do something big, and I can be a cr pretty creative guy, as you know, Senator and you know, Mr.

Representative.

I can be really creative at times.

This is all I can come up with, you know, in a in a way you're mortgaging your future a little bit.

But I think a lot about projects that I've participated in real life.

I think about uh the community national bank building when we built that that had a 10-year tax stabilization program attached to it.

Um it 10 years seems like a long time boy it went by and you know, went by it in New York Minute, and because the city was willing to give us a tax stabilization agreement, um, we completed that project, and you know, that tax stabilization agreement as long as it's expired, and I think the city is you know collecting tens of thousands of dollars in tax revenue.

There was a period of time when they didn't, but they just like we do with TIFF and just like we do with so many other things.

So with a program like this, what I've been saying to folks in the legislature, try it.

Try it or come up with something better.

You know, show me that show me a better program.

Show me a program that's going to work.

Because you could even take this program and say, you know what?

Uh I don't know if we want to really mortgage the heck out of our future.

So we're gonna try it with a hundred homes.

And we're gonna see how it goes.

And we're gonna let them do tenant Barry and Tenant Montpelier.

You don't have to, you know, go whole hog and do it statewide.

But what if it works?

What if all of a sudden we've got young people putting down groups here and saying, you know, I can't afford a home.

Um that would be a pretty cool thing.

Now, Councilor Gustin, I'm done.

I would like to jump in to say I I think that is a fascinating idea, and I'd love to chat more about it.

And if you are up for it, if you're up for sending me that document, that would be very Can you catch?

You I don't have something.

Okay, Councilor Ross is at.

Can you catch?

I mean, I can, but you can you can keep the thumb drive.

The little thing.

Oh, it just password on it.

It shows a password, but that was for something else that had a password.

That's not password protected.

It's so the that document is on here.

That document's on there.

I'll download it and send it to you.

Okay, well, I can I think I might actually have my laptop here, but we'll see.

Between the two of us, we'll figure it out.

Yeah, and I think I think Representative Bootin's already heard this pitch.

I and I actually submitted a drafting request for it.

Um but it doesn't look like it was ever drafted.

Um I just sent an email off to Cameron and uh Tucker to see what happened.

Look, you know, and it would work.

It would work for rental housing, but if it was investment housing, what we'd have to do is say to the investor, if we're gonna do this for you, you have to show us how our gift directly reduced rent.

You know, we're we're not gonna give you a hundred grand just so you can make more money.

You you've got to demonstrate how this money will be used, you know, to reduce rent somehow.

Um but like I said, you know, we've been we've been doing some or we've been trying to do some good work in housing, and we've done some good work on housing, but but we're not it it nothing's changing.

Well, I appreciate the the bold idea.

I also would just want to flag one of the things that I'm anticipating coming up this session is uh some reform on wastewater permitting.

Um I realize this isn't it's slightly different than what you're talking about, not as bold, we'll admit that.

Uh but in terms of value add and time and cost, I think it's uh ripe for reform.

Um and so I'm I'm very excited to do some uh de-duplicating work from uh state permits around uh wastewater.

Yeah.

And and listen, any kind of reform, uh any idea that reduces costs is not a bad idea.

But like I said, when I when we engage, when we put that into practice in real life, when I do it in real life, it it just doesn't bend the curve.

You know, you look at it, would I love to put up a 24 unit building on State Street in Montpelier?

Yeah.

But I I'm not gonna make a $2 million mistake just because I love the state of Vermont.

You know, I'm not.

And not at this point in my life.

And other people feel the same way I do.

But if if I feel that if if people could be supported with a bold program like this, I think we'd see more young people putting down roots in Vermont.

And I think we'd start building those homes.

You know Montpelier and Barrie aren't Chittney County.

Yes, we have housing envy when you know, and when we when we look at you when you were mayor, me when I as I am mayor, you know, we'd look at Chittenden County and we'd have housing envy.

Well, we're not Chittenden County.

We need something bold and big to help cities like Barrie, Montpelier, Plainfield, other areas.

And I think your point too about um uh you and I have spoken about this before too.

Like a pilot program is something because there as much as TIFF has bipartisan supporters like myself and representative Putin, there are also bipartisan TIFF critics or TIFF skeptic folks.

And it talks about the you know the lot the foregone revenue of the education fund, yada yada yada.

But if you can target this to places that are the where the community is ready for it, where folks are looking to in the on the 89 corridor, or folks are looking to set down routes where they have that active demand in a way that limits the exposure to the education fund.

I think that's something that could really help legs.

And that's where a pilot program, you know, could be helpful.

Exactly.

So I've got I I'm I apologize, Councillor Gusin, I I lied.

I have one more suggestion.

And and even though I am I am a Republican and and um I realize this might not be popular with the current administration.

Um, but we should consider assessing a property transfer tax on sellers.

In Vermont, we currently assess a property transfer tax on buyers.

Look at how much that tax generates.

It's significant.

Now, what happens at times is people retire and you know, and at 64 years of age and 20 years or so, I'll be one of them.

Uh you know, but as people retire, they sell their home in Vermont.

Now sometimes they sell their home in Vermont for different reasons.

Um when Karen and I were raising our family, we generally, you know, we started on Berlin Street, sold that house, bought a house on Lower Nelson Street, and then bought the house where where we are now.

It was always a bigger, more expensive home.

It's our family group.

Um so what you could do is you could say something really simple, like, okay, Tom, if you're gonna sell your home and move to Florida, you owe us a 1.25% transfer tax on the sale of that home.

But if you're gonna sell your home for 200,000, and then you're gonna buy a 250,000 home because your family's growing, well, we're not gonna we're gonna give you credit for that because you we're not gonna tax you on the 200 because you're spending 250.

It's the folks cashing out and then leaving.

Exactly.

Probably um and part of it is me being petty.

I'll be very honest with you.

Uh it bugs me, you know, even though I could live wherever I want, it bothers me when people move to Florida and gloat.

And I want to get them on the way out.

Me too, Mr.

Mayor.

Me too.

And and I really hey, it's uh it's a tax.

I I understand how our governor feels about taxes.

But we have but we have big problems here.

We have big problems.

We we cannot adjust our state government to, you know, i it's not all going to be about cutting.

We have to figure out a way to generate more revenue now, more revenue in the transportation fund.

And again, there's gonna be some equity there from folks who drive electric vehicles, but also um we have to figure out a way to generate more revenue, period.

And okay, so someone selling their home in Vermont, moving to Florida, when you tax them that last 1.25% on the sale of that home, they may swear at you on the way out, but who cares?

They're leaving.

And I think I I say one more thing to Amanda all the time, so I'm sorry to do it now, but just one more thing.

Um is what you just identified, Mr.

Mayor, I think is just a fundamental problem, which is why I'm on the ways and means committee, which is just the structure of our taxation system here in Vermont.

Like we are squeezing low and middle income folks when they're trying to get you know that next level up in housing, but you have folks who are cashing out and you know, moving to the South and just, you know, I've had it with Vermont, I don't care about the community anymore, I'm leaving.

When what we need to do is the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and the wrong people are paying the taxes while their services are being cut.

And so we need to be taxing those who are cashing out and leaving more.

We need to be uh this coming session, I'll be introducing a bill uh for a millionaires tax because you know we're all feeling the affordability crunch.

If you're making over a million dollars a year, you're not feeling the affordability crunch in the way that a nurse and a teacher living in Barrie City just trying to pay the bills are.

And so I think that that idea is absolutely a good one.

Um and and those are the types of per thinking big, those are the types of ideas we have to be talking about.

I don't know that we're perfectly aligned.

No, no, no, no, but there's some.

But you know, it's a philosophical.

This is going to this is gonna require compromise on on both sides.

And even though, you know, generally speaking, I'm not one to say, oh, another tax.

To me, this isn't really another tax.

It's you know, it is a new tax.

But I'm trying to figure out a way, like I keep saying, we're in trouble.

You know, I I love this state, I love where I live.

I have honest to God, I have never been more worried about Vermont than I am right now at this moment.

You know, and I've been doing this for decades, and I've never been wor more worried about Vermont's future and the crossroads we're at than I am right at this moment, because we just don't seem, you know, our roads aren't working, our infrastructure isn't working, our housing isn't working, our education isn't working.

And I've never been more worried about Vermont's future and the crossroads we're at than I am right at this moment, because we just don't seem, you know, our roads aren't working, our infrastructure isn't working, our housing isn't working, our education isn't working.

It's like free benefits.

You know, what's what's really, you know, there's just a we just have a lot of problems.

And I believe that we can solve them.

I think, you know, cooler heads can prevail.

I don't think it's all about taxing the rich.

I and I and I don't think it's all about cutting expenses everywhere you can.

It's, you know, there's a sweet spot.

Now I really am done, Councilor Gustin, and I apologize.

And Mr.

Anthony, I'll get to you right after Councilor Gustin.

I'm not sorry in the slightest.

I think that was a really interesting sort of last code of sale conversation, and I appreciated it.

So I don't mind it all waiting.

So a couple of the things I jotted down.

I actually started this list a while back, uh, just alongside my council agendas as we started talking about some things.

Um, and I want to sort of build on the housing conversations that we've just had and the sort of affordability struggles and things that we've just had last year when we talked about legislative priorities.

Um we talked a lot about our unhoused neighbors.

And we started off this meeting talking about the overnight shelters uh that we've been standing up in Barrie City and the warming shelter and the homelessness um luncheons and task forces and meetings, and a tremendous number of people are doing a tremendous amount of work, just really good people, but there needs to be more support at the state level and there need to be better systems.

I know there were bills last year that did not make it across the finish line or made it most of the way across the finish line.

Um, but that topic cannot be dropped, even in the face of what I understand, I hear and acknowledge our deep budgetary concerns.

What we are doing right now is putting a band-aid on it and building housing, absolutely 100%, but that's your five to ten year outlook.

There are people sleeping on the streets in single digits right now because we don't even open the shelter until it's zero.

And that is wholly unacceptable for our neighbors.

So I would hope that all of our legislators would advocate for um for that at the state level.

Um we just here, this is like a really small, really kind of wonky thing, but I jotted it down when we were having a conversation uh a while back during um nuisance properties ordinance.

And that is that we uh I don't know how often this happens, and maybe the manager can speak to this, but periodically we have difficulty establishing the owner of record for bank-owned properties or properties that have sort of gone into the system and are being bounced around between lenders and those lenders have no investment in Barry City, they are not contributing to our city, and we are having trouble chasing them in order to get them to do basic things like keep up property and things like that.

And that's a problem that may only grow as we continue to implement the nuisance property ordinance.

Uh and frequently sometimes people don't even know that they're three owners of uh a go already.

So this might there might be an interesting sort of legislative legal solution for more frequent, more timely updates on ownership of rec owners of record for properties that can give us tools to chase the bad apples who are just buying up these mortgages wholesale, who are not paying attention to the communities in which they've left these these buildings sometimes to molder.

And as I said, the manager may be able to speak to how often or more often that that happens.

But I know I've seen it in my own neighborhood.

Um, that these out-of-state lenders are not paying attention to Barry City properties and having more updated owners of record would give us another tool.

Um, so that one's like kind of specific and wonky.

And then flood resiliency uh echo a lot of what the mayor started with.

Um regional collaboration.

I am in frequent contact with uh colleagues municipal and elected in uh Montpelier and Waterbury.

And I think one of our conclusions in our more recent conversations has been that there absolutely needs to be some kind of regional collaboration with I don't know if teeth is the right word, but support uh money, frankly, uh, even if it's just a little bit of money so that we can meet regularly and something so that there can be some kind of actual consistent support because everyone right now is trying to cram it into the one percent of time they have left beyond uh helping with flood mitigation and flood resiliency in their own communities, and we're all doing the best we can, but this is an area where the state could create additional capacity that could dramatically pay off in terms of collaboration among flood-impacted communities within a watershed within a value.

I don't know what the right mix is, but we've had some really productive Winooski River flood risk, collaborative, which I never get the name right.

We've had some really productive meetings, and those have largely dropped because there's just not enough capacity.

So that's an area where the state could fairly cheaply, frankly, all things being relative to the state budget create additional capacity.

Um and that kind of collaboration could, we've also had some conversations at council about um buying or acquiring or leveraging property in other municipalities to create flood mitigation opportunities for those of us in valley communities.

You know, as the mayor had stated earlier, Washington has land that could be flood mitigation.

They have no incentive right now.

And that's not this is not a knock on them.

They simply have no internal incentive other than like the goodness of their hearts for Barrie City to create floodplain mitigation options in their community.

And when we look up river, there may be things that we can identify as a watershed and as a grouping of the communities that could rebound to even more effect within Barrie City, but right now we have no levers, we have no real way to pursue even to identify these options and a regional collaborative and possibly some funding mechanisms.

We had talked briefly at council, I believe the mayor had suggested, like if Barry City bought a parcel in Washington or a town upriver, created floodplain, lowered the land, et cetera, et cetera, and then didn't have to pay property taxes on it because it has been permanently conserved, moved out of grant, like it will never be improved, that kind of thing.

That might make it financially worthwhile.

Um and lastly, to echo the mayor's call for funding opportunities.

Um we spent so much time last summer working on the hazard mitigation projects, and then the list that came out was a complete dud.

We didn't get any of our projects, and in fact, the state gave quite a lot of money to itself in that process.

Um I would love to know more about what the plans for the hazard mitigation project funding opportunities are going forward.

That's out of Vermont emergency management.

There's been some reporting Vermont's urgency management is not doing a good job at its due diligence, and that directly impacts our ability to do quality flood resiliency here in Barrie City because they are the responsible and responsive part, most direct responsive part of state government that works with us uh on opportunities like this.

So it sounds like some cleanup is in order there and just some some pressure to continue to create the funding opportunities.

We will wait to see how the has the um CDBGDR stuff goes, but it's a long list.

We were never gonna get all of it.

We will continue to have a long list, and we continue to need opportunities to fund that long list.

So that was a lot of talking, and I apologize for sort of spilling it all out there, but that is my list.

No worries.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mary.

But I'm gonna, Peter, I'm gonna cut you because I think some of my comments are related to what Councillor Guster mentioned and what the mayor spoke about earlier.

But um on the unhoused issue, I would just say look behind you.

I mean, Tessa's position is funded by a state grant.

We've stretched it.

Um, everything we're doing, um, which is really, really great related to unhoused uh the unhoused communities because of Tess.

And I know sometimes it seems like a cop-out to say just require staffing, but it just requires one staff.

Um, and you know, and I I think that um, you know, I keep extending Tessa's retirement and we keep finding ways to keep her here.

And I know we're gonna try to find ways to keep her here once her grant run is out, but which is in April.

Yeah, um, so one thing the state can just to be clear.

Our work on that issue on that problem stops if actually we do not have the staffing.

So, you know, that the talent, the experience, you know, all the stuff that's up here.

If that grant doesn't get renewed in April, um, the work that we're doing to try to help those, you know, it's gonna matter to those 10 people last night.

So and I and I know that um I I think we've you know, Montpelier's already starting to tap into Tus because she's doing such a great job.

I know that if uh you know, if a program was created that we could share a test amongst communities, I know Tess is that good that she would be able to do it, and I know other communities could find their tests, but sometimes all it takes is one person whose only job is to do that.

And I think that this is a testament of what happens when when we when we do have somebody dedicated to it.

Um the other thing uh I would mention is um sometimes less no match money is better than more match money.

Um I would, I think I mentioned I think Mayor, when when we were touring with, I think it was Senator Welch.

I told him I would take two million dollars in the bank rather than a chance to win 10 million dollars.

Because if I have two million dollars in the bank, we could do some of our projects.

And and what happens is when we have to cobble together funding streams, the projects get more expensive, something goes wrong, a requirement changes, you know, the rules for the programs don't align, so then everything gets blown up.

So I know speaking for myself, and I know not everyone agrees with this, but I for myself, I know that less no-match money so that we can just do stuff is better than um the opportunity for more money sometimes.

And so there's that, and then the other piece I would give a huge shout out to the you know, huge credit to the state, the you know, replicating the river program, which got us that free engineering.

Um those are the things that are really hard for us to move projects forward.

Engineering is expensive.

Um, and that's a lot of the times where we can get stuck on a project because you often, you know, for example, for CDBGDR, um we found that the more competitive projects had the engineering, but you need the money to do the engineering to be more competitive for the C D B GDR.

It's like a really vicious cycle.

Um, so if you if the state can help municipalities with those upfront costs to get project shovel ready, you know, and then we figure out the the ways to fund them on the back end.

But if we can get to the point of having the civil ready projects, that is a huge help because engineering's hard, and you're usually doing it before you have money to do a full project.

And so um replicating something like that, uh, you know, give credit to where credit is due to the state.

That was a huge help to us.

I mean, we have a list now of 60 projects that we can work on for a long time.

Um, but replicating that um is is uh something that would help Barry and probably many other uh municipalities.

So uh and I I you know I I really enjoyed hearing the mayor's comments.

I I agree with what he and uh counselor gustin mentioned.

I think there's a lot of alignment on um on the things uh that uh that we'd all like to see.

But um just some some thoughts for you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Anthony.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh two topics.

One, the transportation fund, as uh you know.

I uh made a pitch in another forum to point out that the whole class of vehicles who use our roads are neither registered uh in our state uh nor contribute in any way other than simply buy fuel here, and I think that's a shame.

Uh uh for whatever reason the agency and the legislature has allowed some folks to be what economists call free riders, and the folks who live here are actually paying the freight.

Um, and so the reform of uh, if you will, the burden of the local match for the transportation uh fund has to be on the table, and I perfectly agree.

We've moved now to electric vehicles, we have to rethink that aspect.

But the fact that we have free riders uh who operate delivery trucks up to uh 20,000 pounds, and don't don't register here, don't pay the ton tax, uh, is really just defensive.

The other thing I would remind my colleagues uh in the legislature now is one of the explosive elements in the fund uh that happened in 2020, mostly attributed to uh COVID, was what was called the uh excess spending um trigger.

And we we the legislature suspended that because of the explosion in costs owing to COVID in the education fund.

Uh there are many ways to level out, so to say, the fact that Willison can raise a hundred thousand dollars uh with about a fiftieth uh of the tax increase that Barry City can.

I support the foundation uh formula, and that assures that at least the minimum is spent.

What uh uh so far has failed to be um examined is how you uh use the uh property rich communities uh use Willison again as the uh the the poster child, how you get uh that community to uh assess a rate, which essentially acts as a transfer to folks who do not have as large a grant list.

The excess spending trigger was a way to do that.

It's gone.

So uh rethinking how you equilibrate a property rich community with a very um is I think a real challenge.

Emergers notwithstanding.

I mean, I that's gotten the lightning rod, but I'm not sure that's an essential element to the equity of how you raise funds.

I I totally am on it with the big idea and the uh what lever do we have answer taxes.

Uh but the problem is, and I've argued this with Down Street and the council and many folks.

We don't have a way to incentivize owner occupancy.

So I'm all for it.

As long as it's ogre owner occupy uh occupied housing.

The difficulty is a lot of these homeown home building programs are bought up, and then the home is rented by some private equity group.

Uh you know, the only way at the moment we have to distinguish is whether it's a homestead um dwelling or not.

And I have encouraged uh representative Wazuzak and the whole ways and means movement towards what's called property uh tax classification.

In other words, if you live in your home, you actually are looked at differently than somebody who has bought a home who comes there maybe occasionally, or it's owned by a private equity group and it's actually a rental home, even though it used to be single family.

We don't have the tools to distinguish what we need to support home ownership and engagement in the community, and that's what we need in a tax code, and that's what we need in a development strategy.

Thank you.

Yes.

Um, a lot of the things that were on my list have already been brought up, so I'll be I'll be fairly brief.

Um but but about the health care funding.

One of the things that I've been reading about with some interest are some interstate compacts, mostly out west, where a couple of different we're talking about regional collaboration on the state level.

This is regional on the region level, um, where they get together and um form a larger um health insurance pool that then is not I mean it's not reliant on the federal government as um and it it you know I'm wondering is is the legislature looking at that and is that something that you can start talking about with some of our um neighboring states.

I'm not aware of any uh uh initiative on that front, but I do think that's very interesting.

So it uh especially if uh we're going to make progress, I think that would be very helpful uh to join a pool with a larger state.

Um I think it's a great idea.

It's worth exploring.

Okay.

And I think health care is one of those other areas similar to education where every because of the situation is so bad, we I mean, we only have two providers left, insurance providers, and one of them has communicated to the legislature that they may fold within the next couple of years.

It's it's bad, it's really bad.

So I think it's again one of those issues where everything is on the table.

And I think that the um so in you know, my conversations with Alyssa Black, who's the chair of the House Healthcare Committee, everything is on the table, and I think one place where that gets a little complicated is what is the red legislature versus the governor's role when it comes to interstate, you know, that's just a logistic reality.

Um I'm not sure if the administration has looked at that either.

But um, yeah, everything has to be on the table because it's bad.

Council Swelling.

Um I would agree with almost everything that has been said.

Um I would echo that I think um county not moving necessarily to county government, but consolidation.

There's a lot of duplication, just I mean, I just drove yesterday to East Montpelier and watched as they were building a brand.

I see this beautiful brand new building that they're building a public works garage as we're about to, you know.

So, like thinking about how we're talking about consolidating schools, but are there other ways that we can consolidate?

And I'm not saying necessarily forced, but um, is there a way that we can consolidate our resources?

Um education, I could talk to you all day about education and funding formulas.

I also agree with Peter.

I think the foundation formula is a great idea, but I also am very concerned that um the whole reason why we got to the point that we are is because of the equity issue, and you're just gonna have rich towns just say, Yeah, we will we'll pay the 15,000 or whatever it is, but we're actually gonna just add a lot, like uh, you know, another couple thousand to that per student because we can.

Um, and then the last thing is also regarding the unhoused community or unhoused individuals that we have in our community, and I know that's a much bigger um let's say onion to peel, but I think there's a lot of layers that need to be considered, and I am especially concerned about the cities like ours, Burlington, um, the bigger cities where there are larger groups of people who are coming because we have the resources.

They're showing up here, they're showing up in Burlington.

What are we doing?

What is the state doing to support communities like ours?

And if that means that we continue to get grants or we get money for our emergency shelter, we need more support because the state's not spending the money to take care of these people, we are.

So we need more support with that.

That was one of my biggest frustrations from last session was that we all agreed that the hotel motel program was not the permanent solution and that it was costing way too much money.

But when I asked the questions, what are municipalities going to do when that program ends?

And as you said, folks are just thrown onto the street with nowhere to go.

You're right, they don't go to you know, these small rural towns with they go where the food bank is, they go where the capstones are, and that happens to be us.

And um in the bill H10, I think, H9, no, H91 was last year.

Um, there was money for municipalities to deal with the the fallout from the end of the motel program, and that was a bill that was vetoed, and it was vetoed because um the governor felt that we were spending too much money um providing supports for homeless individuals.

Um but again, what do we do when that program goes away?

And we're all seeing what happens when those kind of state supports go away.

So whether it's flooding, whether it's education, whether it's health care, whether it's homelessness, I believe strongly that statewide issues deserve statewide responses because Barrie City, Montpelier, Rutland, St.

Albans, we just don't have the resources to deal with this on our own.

And when it's happening on a statewide level, I think that that should indicate that we are responding to it in a statewide, regionalized, coordinated way.

And too often that does not happen, and that's not in all of these issues.

I keep saying over and over, it's like the status quo is killing us in Barrie City, and we just can't allow it to continue, which is why we need large bold solutions to any one of these problems.

And such a nerdy thing, so forgive me.

But on in the weeds of Act 73, you mentioned what's to stop those higher spending districts from spending more.

There was a cap that was built in on top of the funding formula school districts in this imagined world that will take five years to get to, could spend more than the foundation formula, um, but it was capped at I want to say five percent more per student, and that would go into a fund that would fund um uh facilities and building of new um schools for those, you know, spaulding could take 500 more kids tomorrow, logistics aside.

Um there are other schools that are falling down in our capacity.

So that the legislature is thinking of controls in a foundation formula world of how to stop with all the respect, the stoves and the killingtons um from just you know jacking up their per.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, when I'm uh and and nothing to throw my friend floor under the bus um in Washington Central, but when they're talking about how they're bumping up against the the spending threshold right now, and they have to do something to cut it back, even if you're just below it, that still impacts all of us.

Yes, yes, it does.

Because we're not even close.

Yes.

And so how do we how do we have some kind of sliding scale that says if you hit this mark, you're you're paying more.

How if you hit this mark, you're paying more.

If you're in this sweet spot, you're good, you're golden.

Yep.

But right now, the problem is is that if you are getting even close to it, like I'm fine if I'm like right up next to it.

If it's nine nine, like whatever's whatever the spending threshold is, I can't remember.

But you know, as soon as you go over, okay, we can't do that anymore, but we are still all suffering.

I will say all in Barrie City, we are suffering because of how higher spending districts.

Yeah, I mean, we're subsidizing Stowe.

Like Barry said like Barry Cities is subsidizing Stowe in Killington right now.

And we're subsidizing everybody.

Yes, and you know, I joke all the time that like I'm perfectly comfortable with still losing their third lacrosse team so that our kids can get textbooks and laptops, like fine with me.

We all have to be in this together.

Yes.

Representative Bouden.

So I just want to clarify the BUSD is a receiving district.

Um we receive more money from the state funds than we give out.

Just for clarity on that.

Um I wanted to also follow up with the healthcare comment.

Uh I would highly recommend taking a look at the JFO uh conversation that they had regarding health care, it was extremely educational.

Um I think Teddy, you were there, correct?

For the the briefing.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It was it was extremely educational.

And I would I would definitely highly recommend um one last thing.

The court system.

I mean, you know, they started uh, you know, we have service resistant individuals, and and they can be people could be service resistant for a lot of reasons.

But at a certain point, the fact that you're service resistant, that you will not accept help, uh, you do not want help, but your beh but your behavior is impacting this city, impacting you know, the 8,500 people who live here.

Um, you can give me all the excuses you want.

But if you're not accepting help, there has to be consequences.

You know, that's what life is about.

And when our officers um arrest individuals, you know, six, seven, ten times, and then their good work is collateral damage, because we've got to plead, you know, the state's attorney has to, in order to get the defense attorney to play ball, they've got to plead plead half the charges, so make half the charges go away.

You know, it it's just not a good, it's not a good model.

It's not a model that I think anyone would agree is working for them.

When you ask people, you know, how do you feel?

Ask anyone.

I mean, I don't care where where you you land on the political spectrum, do you think our court system is working?

I think most people would answer, you know, no, it's not.

Um there has to be a level of accountability.

I mean, if you have, you know, when we have eight people in the city who who literally we have eight individuals in the city who are touched by our police department in some manner every day of the year.

365 days a year, one of those eight individuals is or more, but at least one is is visiting with our officers, and they are service resistant, and they have been offered assistance and services, and they keep saying no.

Yes.

Couple of things.

Um I I really appreciate the set the countywide approach about flood mitigation and things like that.

We talked about that um last year quite a bit.

Um the education system is is broken, as we all know.

Um, and big question that I have is can't we start small?

Think consolidating things like transportation.

So if districts could consolidate their transportation and have uh the state take it over, for example, as opposed to working through contractors like B USD spending lots and lots of money, where if things got consolidated as far as the transportation, um, you could potentially save lots of money.

Um another aspect uh with health care, uh, you know, maybe there could be an option where uh the teachers' unions work together in order to have larger numbers uh so that way they could have better rates.

Um that was kind of a thought.

Um and really just uh the court system stuff.

Um it's really difficult for families to want to feel safe, uh specifically in some of our federally funded housing.

Um to see people um to call the police to have someone arrested with you know whatever's going on, uh, and then to see them back the same day uh doing the same things over and over.

Um it makes residents not want to call the police, not want to have faith in our system, um, and it really makes people scared because if you pick up the phone call, pick up the phone and you know the person gets arrested for you know, maybe it's possession of cocaine.

You know, then the next day they see you because well, you're the one that called the police on them, you know, then what kind of ramifications is are that is that gonna have on the community?

Um and those are things that I personally deal with a lot living in in public housing, um, as well as well as many others.

Um without having those accountability factors, uh, without having our residents feel safe, um people feel that the court system is really just doing the people who are trying to do what they can uh to survive, just it seems like they're failed.

Um so just you know, talking about that and and really understanding how things are working or really not working, um, when it's really just based on what the prosecution is going, what you know what's going on.

You know, some one person, two people could have the same charge, yet one person could be held, another person could not be held, and sometimes there's just so there needs to be more firmness and understanding that if you are doing these things, um, then these will be your consequences, and we're not just going to you know give you a slap on the wrist, let you see you commit the same crimes same day sometimes, um, and then just so it's it's frustrating.

That's because these people keep getting voted in allowing this.

I mean, it's not the legislative, I mean people get voted in or soft on crime, no bail, blah blah blah.

It's gonna turn and it is turning.

I mean, not to get blunt, but even the council leaders turn it.

Okay.

Uh Byrne, did you have your hand up?

I did, but um Michael had his hand up also.

He was waving at you.

Uh Michael, would you like to say something before I do?

Oh, okay.

Thank you.

Um two things that I had made a list of, and one is uh child care, and I haven't heard that addressed.

Um I've learned from a child care provider that there are some new regulations that are removing the number of children that a licensed child care provider can oversee.

I don't know what the wisdom is of it, because what she recognizes will happen is she will need to hang on to all of her young children, but the kids who are her after school kids that come in won't have after school slots anymore.

Uh they won't have after school programs, and they're going to become latchkey kids who are left on their own unless their parents leave work.

So where she was able to provide six day slots and four after school slots, it's going to be reduced to a total of six slots.

So that means two or four families, depending on how many kids they have will no longer be able to use her child care services, and there aren't other child care services out there right now.

We've um put money and energy and funding into increasing the number of child care openings over the past year or two by a thousand.

That's a lot of working families, and when we take that away, we are reducing the number of families that are able to be gainfully employed, and that on top of having people needing to go into work, state employees who are no longer working from home, we are putting all those after-school kids at risk, and we are reducing the uh safety for their families, and maybe their families aren't going to be able to go to work anymore.

So I don't know if you uh Senator Watson or Teddy have any thoughts on child care.

Uh and then I just will make a comment that um I hear the uh complaints about uh the courts, and uh it is a very extended.

If you have an issue in court, it can go on for a couple of years and still not even get resolved no matter where you are in that.

But what seems to be working here, and uh Chief Vale has reported well on is a situation table.

I would like to see some support for uh more of the kinds of things that are coming out of the situation table, and for funding uh the programs that people are needing at a level where they're more affordable, because if we look at building a new prison or sending people out of state, that's that cost is so much more than what it cost us to um operate something like the situation table and the supporting services.

So thank you very much.

Uh and the wetlands, I would like to see that we keep our wetlands because those are the things that are helping us to stop um to prevent flooding, also, and for the governor to overstep what the environmental board has said, uh felt a very uh it felt disingenuous, just disingenuous about keeping Vermont uh lowlands from a flooding.

So thanks.

Representative Booten.

Yeah, so let me follow up on that child care issue.

Um there was legislation, I don't know when it was, but um they restricted the ability for you know, home care providers.

Um there was legislation, I don't know when it was, but um they restricted the ability for you know home care providers like the I mean we I mean I remember the days when we had you know your local neighborhood uh daycare.

And when they added all those regulations on it, it put them out of business, which made makes it a heck of a lot more expensive and harder to get day uh daycare.

So currently in legislate the legislative current law is that a provider um can only have two families, I believe that's um uh in and there's just no way that a person that's trying to do a business would be able to make that work out.

Um so just wanted to that's one of the reasons why we've got a problem with our child care.

Does that make any sense?

Representative Boone, is that just for the unlicensed daycares, correct?

That they can only have two families.

Okay, I'm talking licensed uh daycare, regular licensed daycares.

They change they change the rules for licensed daycares, and um thank you.

It's it's thank council.

Anyone else want to address any issues?

We've given you a lot to think about.

And you know, several times, Representative Wazak, you you said you know, everything's on the table.

In some respects, I like hearing that, but having seen my share of legislative sessions, I cringe sometimes because that means, oh man, it means everybody starts screaming and nothing gets done.

I I hope that's not the case.

You know, there's uh there's been some things that I've heard here this evening that I agree with, and there's some things that I've heard that I don't agree with.

But I'm always willing to find compromise.

You know, I've I've served with Democratic governors, with Republican governors, you know.

Of course it's Vermont, so it's always Democrat, Republican, Democrat, Republican, as you know, if we decide who has a the better idea.

Um but about but you know, it it's gonna take a lot of compromise.

We we have a lot of issues that we have to get through.

I mean, literally, I mean, everything we we've run the whole gamut here from transportation to education to taxation to child care to health care.

Um it's gonna be a hard session and buckle up because you know, if you're a wimp, Montpelier's no place for you for the next in you know, January through May, because it's gonna be you know, it's gonna be a lot.

And when I say and I say that, not like it's gonna get physical, it's gonna be a lot of hours.

It's gonna be a lot of work, you know, to solve these problems.

And I but I'm hopeful, even if it's just pilot programs that that something can get done, that we can at least try some new ideas because like you said, status quo isn't working for anybody.

So, council, anything else you'd like to throw out there?

We approve I do have one other thing to add, um, if I may.

Yeah, of course.

Sure, which is uh no, it's not on the high highest priorities, uh, but something that I think is um relevant for particularly Barrie City is uh around Dix Reservoir, and especially as that is under uh the natural resource and energy jurisdiction.

So I do have a bill about uh the potential for delegating the authority to uh regulate uses of waters uh for a municipal if a municipality were to petition for that right and they meet certain requirements, like they have uh control of uh the whole perimeter and if it's their drinking water source, that they could be given the authority to uh to have the right to to regulate the the uses on that water.

Um in addition, just in in the conversations that I've had with the commissioner of um fish and wildlife um thinking about the fishing uh tournament application and how that might be changed uh to not tempt trespass.

So anyway, just to flag, it's not not uh you know the biggest of deals, but wanted you to know um that that is you know was brought to my attention on my radar.

And I I guess I would also say one other thing.

Um just so you're aware of our deadlines, our drafting deadline uh for requesting bills.

Actually, I I assume it's the same for the House.

It was December 1st.

Did you have December 1st?

So uh we had to request any bills uh by December 1st.

I have a little bit more flexibility as I'm a chair.

Uh however, um having this conversation even earlier is useful because there's been a lot of really excellent ideas here, and I'm really uh grateful to have this conversation.

Because there's been a lot of really excellent ideas here.

And I'm really grateful to have this conversation.

I love these kinds of meetings.

But the more time that we can have to have this conversation and let those um develop and uh percolate and and get worked, you know, get the details worked out, um, the better the the better chances that we have to make those things reality.

So just also want to express my appreciation.

So I interrupted, but thank you.

Thank you.

Is that potential bill on something defined on your website that I could read?

It's not up, yeah.

I will have uh a draft of that.

Um it's very important what's going on.

Yeah, fair enough.

Right.

So um that's an interesting idea.

I hadn't I don't have any of the bills that I've drafted posted somewhere, but I think that could be very that's a very interesting idea.

I like that.

You could have people on both sides until they read what exactly is.

Oh, absolutely.

Oh, for sure.

So that people can see the language.

Um that up.

Yeah.

And there's also um, you know, there's um multiple ways to introduce and pass legislation.

So as Senator Watson indicated, because she's a chair, she has more flexibility, so is sure in the House.

There's there are what called committee bills, um, which is just rather than like representative laws' act introduces a bill like the committee on ways and means can introduce a bill.

Um just because that absolutely valid point and more lead time is always better.

Um, but just because that one deadline has passed does not mean that our um options in terms of legislative vehicles has stopped.

Like there's a there's a million different ways to do this thing.

A bunch of stuff that was introduced in last year's big flood bill ended up passing as part of the budget.

And just didn't make so there's there's many.

We can always attach things.

Yes, yeah.

And then it gets more bulbs tacked on than a Christmas tree.

Hello, Christmas tree.

Yeah.

So um I will have a companion bill to yours.

Um regarding the Dix reservoir.

I've already got it out there.

I think it was based on the 2000.

Well, it was based on the 2017 Hooper in uh introduced bill.

Um which I'm sure you remember.

Do you remember?

Because you were mayor then, right?

The one who uh are we talking about Mary Hooper.

Oh no.

It was represented.

Yes, I do remember that.

I do remember.

It was not well received, but I was well with Warren Kittsmiller.

Um I would have to go back.

It was age four or seventeen, but I do have the the bill drafted up.

We should connect about that.

Thank you.

Again, thank you.

Appreciate your time.

I'm sure we'll be seeing more of you in the next four to five months.

Look forward to it.

Thank you.

Happy holidays to both of you if I don't see you.

Thank you.

Council, we'll move on to item eight E on the agenda.

This is the flood resiliency plan update.

And I believe we're reviewing the bio chip.

Correct.

Yeah, okay.

Perfect.

Tell us, Justin, did you want to introduce you to just jump into it?

You know what?

They're not much to introduce I usually just vamp for in order for you to get the PowerPoint up, so go for it.

All right.

Um so thank you, Council.

This is uh thought it'd be timely to do another buyouts update just because of some new milestones uh that we've reached.

This is you're familiar with a lot of this presentation, but some of the the uh numbers are new.

So as a reminder, 67 biote applicants after the 23 flood.

We approved 27.

We approved um buyouts that were clusters by the river where we thought there was the greatest mitigation value.

Um we didn't pursue other buyouts because of the FEMA rules that prevent redevelopment, safe uh that prevent redevelopment um of any lots that are uh purchased through FEMA funds.

So that was sort of our standard.

Um if um once all these buyouts that are approved go through, um there would be an estimated 125,000 uh loss property taxes um from those properties now being owned by the city and being vacant lots.

Um twenty-four of the twenty-seven uh buyouts that we approved have also been approved by FEMA, um including all five of the landslide buyouts.

Uh and so there's three there's there's there's two commercial and one uh late residential property that are still not tech not formally approved by FEMA, still working their way through the process.

They're working the late applicant is just it was late, and so it's later in the process.

The commercial properties tend to be dirtier ground, dirtier dirt, so they require longer environmental assessments.

That's why they're taking longer at this point.

Um we are very hopeful uh that we will shepherd all of these through uh once everything is said and done.

Um we have closed uh and that means we own 11 uh of the of the uh the uh approved buyouts.

So um I've been uh traveling down to Burlington uh up to Burlington, I guess, um every couple of weeks to to close uh to attend these closings with uh property owners.

Um they are um sort of bitter sweep moments.

Uh most of the people are very happy to be uh sort of done with the process and uh and the city is uh in in ownership of these of these houses after of 11 of them at this point.

And then uh also a new update.

We have uh five demolitions that are completed or nearly complete of the buyouts that have been closed.

Uh here are the visuals, and I know a lot of colors, and sometimes the colors don't match on each slide, so I'll try to go through.

But I I think these are mostly familiar, I think, to everyone by now.

Um this is the north end, which has been sort of the the trickiest puzzle part of the puzzle.

Um the real simple one is the green lot, which is 572 North Main, the Ayers lot.

Um that one was approved because that was a really clear mitigation value site that's right adjacent to the Willie Street Bridge, as has been mentioned in other parts of the meeting.

That's connected to a mitigation project that um SLR is working on, but the River Project helped us uh get to design.

Um we have uh been looking at the um, and this is consistent sort of with the the rest of this map is consistent with what we did in the CDBGDR applications.

Uh so the red boxes here were uh considered for um uh full FEMA C D G B DR funded buyouts, which would uh take those properties, uh do demolitions, and then um turn them into permanent floodplain.

The yellow um was uh property club property clusters to do what are called acquisitions under CDBGDR, and those would be acquisitions with the purpose of redeveloping, and that was done to um again clusters where we could sort of put together larger pieces of land where larger uh maybe multi-family uh multi-unit uh buildings could be built.

And then all the blues were uh elevations under the CDB GDR application.

Um this is uh the Vine Street Scampini Square area.

Um so we've now introduced a new color here, which is um closed by buyers that have closed already.

Um and so you can see that we've already uh closed on quite a few in this neighborhood.

We have quite a few pending.

Actually, I think 15 Scampini will be the next to go on this list.

They are they are furthest along in the process.

So very shortly we should own that entire strip right along the river.

Um you can see here two of these properties on the on off of West 2nd are two of the ones that are still lagging.

These are uh commercial, and so they require longer um environmental assessments from FEMA, and so they are further behind the process.

Uh this is uh Gunners Brook area.

Um we have uh one buyout here that has been closed, which is um the building that uh you may also remember was subject of a fire a couple years ago, so that was sort of a double whammy for that building, um, but it is now ours, uh proud owners.

Um and then we have a couple others that are uh forthcoming right along um uh Harry Harrington Avenue, uh which will help us expand the existing floodplain there.

This is also connected to a um this is also connected to a uh mitigation project um that is going to expand the floodplain and redesign the debris wrecks in that neighborhood.

We have a couple of um sort of the lighter blue color, we have a couple of um 2024 buyout intakes that um could eventually become part of uh you know uh an HMGP application for buyouts.

Um those those came in after the 2023 flood, but they are sort of compelling uh due to their location.

This is uh off of River Street and Granit Street.

Um the um the the uh two properties.

The last one actually I closed on was the 27 River Street that closed on Monday.

Uh we already closed on 23 River Street, and we have a couple uh a couple more that are uh pending there as well.

Um the Desro lot is is also moving along.

Um and as you heard earlier, also part of some really exciting planning around some river access right there at that location.

Um the landslide buyouts all uh have closed.

These were um these were sort of these were the first that the city council approved.

Um these all became pretty clear to us, uh you know, several of these became pretty clear to us right away because the homes were either demolished or nearly demolished.

Um and then uh Pike Street, I think you're all familiar with that giant seam that was right above it.

Uh Courier Street was was a trickier one.

This we had to do some geotechnical work here, but it also came back that any mitigation was going to be very prohibitive.

So the you know, uh at our recommendation, the council approved all these really early on, and that's why they closed really early on as well.

Of course, yeah.

It's to be assumed that no one is living in these houses or squatting in these properties.

They there was one person who was living in one and I believe there's uh one of the river street residences is also occupied at this at this moment that is not closed.

But they are um, yeah, the city um once the once we take ownership um and I notify everyone that that we've closed.

Basically, as I'm driving down from Burlington, we have somebody from public works in the police department going to secure the property.

Um we install a no trespassing sign.

Um we board it up just for security perimeter, and you know, so there's no liability or anything of that nature.

So we have there's been one property where there was someone still physically there.

Um, and um I know there's I believe on River Street somebody's still living just because they don't have another place to live at this moment until they close.

So this is just a visual for for you of some of the other, you know, some of the the other properties that weren't bought out, they're sort of scattered throughout the city.

Um, and just just wanted to give you a visual of where they are there.

Um as you can see, some of them were near the river but not clustered.

Um, and so um they they weren't pursued.

Um this is a new uh the newest part of the update for this meeting.

Um we have three demolitions that are uh completely done, and that's 25 Oswald and both houses on Pike Street.

Um those were uh the Oswald was the trailer that was sort of cut in half, and then Pike Street was the houses that had the uh the seam right above it on the on the old rail path uh rail path.

Um we have two that are underway and nearly complete.

I mean very, very close to complete.

In fact, they might be complete now after I wrote this PowerPoint.

Um that is 106 Courier Street, which the structure has been removed, and the foundation was was the last thing left, and they were working on that.

Um 23 Vine Street, uh it all same thing, structure gone, foundation work underway, um, and the backfill was uh was gonna be scheduled.

Um I uh the demo began on Scampinian this one actually might also be moved up to the complete.

I haven't had a chance to go by, but the the demolition uh was scheduled to begin there on December 4th.

Um so this could also be done at this point as we're speaking.

Um and then 23 River Street, uh the abatement was complete, the house has been cleared, um, and demo was supposed to begin yesterday.

Um, and uh and so we will have um some I I don't think this one went through because we didn't have I don't think we had the lane closure, but that one is coming up very, very uh very quickly as well.

So they're moving very quickly.

Um there's one on deck on Harrington, as I mentioned, that's also closed that is getting the um the pricing underway uh and that will be sort of the next one to go.

Um I will say that the um it took about three months from the first closing to the first demolition, but as you can see from this schedule, um the pace of the demolitions has quickly accelerated.

We are we are far less than we're we're far inside the three-month period for some of these um between the time they close and the time that they're getting scheduled.

So this is all done by the state.

Uh the state uh hires the demolition contractors.

Um, you know, we we basically give them the demolition permit, we do some paperwork, we sign some, you know, some some forms, um, we coordinate with them about lane closures, um they coordinate with us about making sure for most of these the utilities have been shut off for some time.

Um so but but really the state manages this process for us, which is which is great.

Uh less less of a workload for for our staff.

Um so that's it.

That's the update.

Um I thought it was worthwhile now that we were getting sort of to that next stage, which is demolitions, um, for for you to see sort of where we are.

And um generally speaking, as I mentioned, the pace is picking up.

Um there's no closings scheduled at the moment, um, but those also tend to come in bunches, and so um I'll expect that as soon as some next round of appraisals are done, we'll get another couple of closings done.

And um, and the demolitions will presumably continue um throughout the winter as the contractor is able to be here.

So uh thank you.

Any question?

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Council.

We'll move on to item eight F on the agenda.

This is to approve the fiscal year 27 budget survey.

The manager uh changed the survey based on the suggestions uh and recommendations of council.

Motion to approve would be in order.

So thank you.

Sir second, moved and seconded.

Discussion or comment.

Yes.

Um I have a couple of things, and I I am sorry to do this to you now.

Have we considered the reading level of this survey?

I haven't considered it.

And I and the only reason I ask is because as I'm reading it, I'm wondering if it is a little intimidating for people who might be reading at a different reading level.

I think the generally you shoot for like sixth grade, I think.

That's what I've heard anecdotally.

I didn't get any pushback, but then again, the reading level probably higher.

So I the answer is I don't know, Counselor.

Okay.

So I I bring that up because one of the questions I had was um like you on page um five of six, I guess.

It says the city has many accumulated capital improvement needs.

That's a lot of big words.

And so like I'm just thinking about how does that I mean when you read it, then you read what is it, what does that mean?

What are the following infrastructure categories?

But I it almost feels like we need to make sure that the people who are answering it feel don't feel intimidated by the survey, because I want to make sure that we are getting as much feedback as we can.

So I'd just give you that.

Yeah, I can we could cross out accumulated, it's gonna read the same question.

The other thing you could do is honestly just copy the whole thing, throw it into chat GPT and ask it to give you a uh survey exactly the same with the sixth grade reading level and see what it says.

Yeah, I can see what it spits out.

Um the other thing that I'm I just have a couple of like just logistical questions on page um three of six.

Um understanding we have limited resources.

What services do you believe the should the city should do more of?

Can we choose all?

Do we only choose one?

Do we rank them?

This is a this is a check box option.

So I I this would give you the option to check all of them or check none of them.

So if someone checked all of them, does that help us?

It it would tell us that someone is willing to pay as much as necessary for all those things.

Um so we we can place a limitation on it, um, but as it is designed now, it would allow um it would allow someone to select them all.

Okay.

Um similar question on page five of six, which is it's also checks box check box, and so I was wondering if it was rank.

Um you say top three flood mitigation, so can they only check three?

Yes, it should be set up that way.

Okay.

And then at the bottom of that page, which of the following services would you be willing to pay higher taxes for?

Is that just choose one?

Or is that choose all of the uh this is a this is a potential to choose as many as you want.

And then the last qu the last square there, should that say other, and then you can fill in or link?

I think that jump that must that's just a formatting error, just CFO hands.

Um okay, and that's it.

Thank you.

Perfect.

I can make some wording changes.

That's pretty simple.

So I can um I'll throw it in chat GPT and see what we get back.

Yeah, I I don't think what were you saying?

Sixth grade reading level.

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Yeah, but I don't think you'd see I don't think anyone I don't think you'd get that many changes.

I mean, maybe like I said, the you know what was the question you cited on page five city is accumulated capital improvement needs.

Well, you could yeah, but you could wipe out accumulated city as many capital improvement needs.

Yeah, I think yeah, okay, so we'll try it.

Yes.

I might suggest as someone who teaches a lot lately in middle school and elementary that the change of capital improvement might just need a definition.

Um, because those that are have that reading level um wouldn't understand what a capital improvement needs would be.

Um reading through the survey itself.

Um I think it would be great to give it to some students.

Um, either way, um, but think that overall the general atmosphere of the surveys very just neutral and good, and just a couple of like capital improvement needs, you know.

What does that mean?

You could drop the words capital improvement.

Oh, yeah, I mean you could just say, look, the city has many needs.

How important is it to you that the city invests in the following and you could drop infrastructure following categories?

Yeah, um, you know, it'd be it reads the same.

I mean, we call them accumulated capital improvement needs because it's capital expenditure.

The other the only other comment that I would make is that when we say understanding we have limited resources and that that you know what services you believe the city should do more of.

Um it might make sense to say, I mean, let elsewhere it says where would you pay more tax?

What would you pay more taxes for?

It might just say understanding that funding all of this will raise your taxes.

Yeah, I mean, part and part of it is to ask the question sort of in different ways to get at like different things.

But yeah, I I think it's I think you're right, counselor.

It's it's sort of in that vein, but trying to get at it um from a different approach.

Okay, that's fine.

I mean, and that's valid.

I just you know, it's just if you're if you're looking to make sure that this everybody who takes this survey understands what's being asked sometimes.

That's I mean, I've had a lot of experience with um community service serv surveys in churches where you say what what do you want to do?

And everyone says, We want to do everything, and then you say, Well, what do you want to do?

What do you want to help with?

And they're like, Oh, no, no, no, not that.

So, you know, so that you learn to ask what are you willing, where are you willing to put your energy and or your money?

And you're looking to have this the drop dead date.

I was I'm look uh I think when I looked at the calendar, I think based on when the council meetings were falling, we were gonna have this uh expire sometime in mid-January.

I think the council meets on the 27th.

So I think we're gonna end it around um the 21st.

We were aiming for, um, so that we have a couple of days to compile the results and get something for the council to look at at that point.

So I'm gonna ask the council to give the manager the latitude.

I mean, he's heard the feedback, let's push this thing out so that he's not coming back to the council again looking for approval.

So do his best, get it pushed out so that because you know, you gotta remember you've got you know holidays and in between there, so we're not giving people a whole lot of time to respond.

And last year I think we had three, four hundred respond.

300.

Yeah, which you know wasn't bad.

Yes.

Uh I remember Byrne had a great idea if we could put people if they wanted to tell us who they were and be entered in a drawing so they could like hold one of the golden shovels or something.

I don't know, but I think it's a great idea to see if people would be like if we could encourage more people.

I don't know what the incentive would be, but not lunch with me.

That'll discourage.

Well, no, but I'm just I'm trying to think what is something that we could give someone.

Maybe it's a pass to the pool.

Maybe it's a like a free skate at the BOR.

I don't know, but what?

Free oil change.

What would so what would be the incentive for lunch?

Like Nick, like what but why would we want to know their name?

So that we could if they won, if they wanted to, they could win whatever the incentive is.

I think they try to encourage more people to produce.

Oh I think all we really need is an email.

So I can I can just do an email.

Yes, we want to encourage.

You want something to get them in a batting cage.

Amy, did you have a question?

Oh, just a quick comment.

Um, on the accessibility thing, I think rather than using an AI tool, like if you want a readability score, use an actual readability score tool.

And I think some of them are built into like Microsoft.

I'm not a fan of AI, I guess.

Um I can't remember how the survey was distributed last year.

I think even more so than the um accessibility might be like if there's some standard statement that could be like if you need help taking the survey, like maybe somebody needs in print instead of computer or um some kind of accessibility services, large format print translation, that kind of thing.

And I know it's not practical to offer everything.

Um, but you know, maybe Vermont League of Cities and Towns or something could have some guidance on like a statement or some services.

There are some state services um state contracts for that sort of thing.

And and sometimes for state documents, it's not that I'm a state employee, and it's not that we have to translate absolutely every document into every possible language, but sometimes it's just having a note on there, like, hey, do you need help?

You know, participating in this somehow, and some kind of contact number for it.

Not that you have to offer every option up front, but maybe there's like, hey, do you need help taking this?

Because maybe somebody needs it in print instead of online.

Yeah, for print.

I know last year our main source for that was the li the library.

We uh sent this right over to Kristen and they printed out several copies, and I think we got back oh maybe 12 to 15 or so from them.

So that was really really helpful.

Um, and we had we had copies available here at City Hall at the clerk's office.

So um we'll certainly make sure that um this will also go out via regroup, which is the easiest way, right?

We'll send it to regroup.

They'll get a link, they'll go right to the website if they have a phone.

Hopefully they'll it'll guide them right to their browser and they can hopefully do it right on the spot.

So thank you.

Okay, moving on to uh item nine, upcoming business council.

Is there anything you would like to have see on a future agenda?

I mean, right now I am waiting for the final release of the CDBGDR awards, which will be tomorrow.

Uh I think are you going?

I'm I will be there.

Yep.

Um any of you who want to go that's uh noon.

I think they moved to the state house, didn't they?

They did.

So that got movie was originally in the so it's actually at the state house.

Um so the governor will be making uh those awards, and then obviously we'll get short time after that, we'll get the grant condition, you know, the formal grant um notice and conditions.

So we're waiting for those, waiting for round two of CDBGR.

And uh let's see, I got the memo.

There's a couple of holidays uh this month, so I did get that memo, and then we're in the legislative session when for me things really heat up because that's when I get a call in the morning saying so-and-so's down here, and Barry City could be hurt like this, and you run down to the state house and testify why they shouldn't do it.

Um so I don't have a whole lot on my agenda coming up in December.

And I I'll just uh let you know for uh next week.

Um it'll be your first chance to have a uh a meeting with Christina Kimball, our finance director.

She's gonna come in to do a year-to-date update.

Yeah, you'll be spending a lot of time with her, as you know, uh in the next couple months.

So I wanted her to have a chance to share with you where we stand now, and then um so that when we do start the budgeting process, you've had a chance to meet her.

And um really excited to have you uh see why we're so happy that she's here.

So she'll be here next week for that.

Yep.

Just um there are two people who would like to be confirmed to they on the schedule.

Yeah, good, good.

They're next meeting.

Yeah, good.

Yeah, next week.

Round table.

Counselor.

And what a great time of Christmas for kids.

Seriously, between uh the coin drop, freezing my tail off, dancing around with you know, Councillor Bergeron and Officer Fleury and you know, Mr.

Mayor, and even the governor stopped by.

That was a blessing.

Um, and then we were able to uh raffle off a TV uh and do a 50-50 raffle at the bottle and Barrie um that Saturday evening.

Um Mr.

Mayor, I'm sure you have the total on that, and I won't uh spoil it.

Pick over 18,000.

I had said it earlier in the early in the meeting before you arrived.

All right.

So over 18,000.

Uh just a great opportunity to be involved uh and make sure that uh you know every kid can get a Christmas.

Um secondly, Spaulding hockey uh will be at the BOR on Saturday for their opening evening, afternoon, we'll call it.

Um I think the first game's at three, second game's at five.

It's a double headed girls and boys.

Um you can also catch that for free on CVT Sport.net.

Um local service that Carl Park provides.

Uh so just really excited for the change in sports seasons, got basketball going on, hockey going on.

Um Spaulding's got a wrestling tournament, I believe, next week as well.

Um so really great opportunity for people to get engaged in uh the youth of our community and what they do.

Councilor Hill Gardner.

Just wanted to report that um the the benefit concert, which was part of the reason why I wasn't able to be at the coin drop.

Um that that I participated participated in with Cameo Brook at St.

Mary's in Northfield was a benefit for Central Vermont Habitat for Humanity, and we raised over 1700 for them.

And they're doing great work in both this communities.

Fantastic.

Counselor Burgeron.

I too had a good time Saturday morning with Councillor Deering and Mayor Lowe's on.

And your hat.

And my hat.

Mayor Lowe's on referred to as a dead raccoon.

Um, I I want to thank all the people that that either helped on that or made donations.

I mean, that was it was cold, it was about four and a half, five hours, but it was worth every bit of it.

Um and then Sunday night.

I met with Ed Roos from the Rotary Club up at the BOR.

And they're looking for people to help to volunteer.

Um anything that they make, they give back to whoever helps in the booth if it's like the Lions Club or uh BYSA or Blackhawks, whatever they're called now.

Black Bears.

Um, so you know, if you got a couple hours you want to spare some time, um I'll put something out with Ed's phone number, or you can get hold of me and we'll get you set up.

Cool, Council Spalding.

Um I mentioned that I went to the queer art fair, craft fair on Saturday.

Um I volunteered for a couple hours and it was very cold.

I was standing in the shade, not in the sun.

And it was very chilly.

But the thing I wanted to say was it was amazing how many people came into town.

I don't know if anyone was.

I walked into Espresso Bueno first thing in the morning, and the place was absolutely packed, not a place to sit.

Yeah.

And I was having a conversation at the social club later in the day with Maddie from Slowpoke.

And she has this fantastic idea, which I'm knocking everyone now because she I'll let her own it, but um to go along with a career craft festival.

Um it's a really well-run um festival.

They have a lot of great volunteers and people coming from all over.

My favorite, I will tell you, is a van full of students from Castleton drove up here to go to the festival.

An entire van full of students.

And we were sending people because the road was closed.

We were sending people around.

I was on River Street and Granite Street, so we're like, just go around and go to Merchants Row and just wherever you can find parking, just park because there was no parking anywhere.

So it was fantastic.

I hope our downtown businesses got a little of that.

Felt a little of that.

So Councillor Ruthier.

Um, just if you have pets, please bring a bit.

That's about it.

Oh, um, I apologize.

Thank you.

Counselor Gustin.

That's right.

I used to have me up there on the screen.

Sorry.

Um I know we started off the meeting talking about this, but I do just want to say one more time how proud I am of everyone for coming together to make the overnight shelters and the daily warming shelters happen.

It's it's genuinely been a privilege to be part of that and to see Barry City take care of people.

So just wanted to say that one more time.

Yeah.

So I'll echo uh what everyone has said about the uh Christmas for kids program.

It was a record.

Uh and you know, every year it just gets bigger and better.

And the thing that I have always been so proud of in Barrie City, you know, because I visit with other mayors in St.

Albans and Burlington and Rutland, and you know, they talk about you know fundraising in their city and how difficult it is.

And I'm I'm like, I can get on the phone and raise five grand in two hours in Barry.

It's like it's and you know, I'm reminded of that when people drive by and everyone's giving something, and people are apologizing that they can't get more.

It's like no, thank you for giving.

I don't care what it is.

You know, we love you know, I like I love the donations at Russell, but I love the donations at Jingle too.

And you know, it's moments like those that just make you so proud to be part of this city because people are just so generous.

And Jason Fleury and Jen Carbano and Jason's daughter Katie, uh, I mean, they are the backbone of that program.

They work so hard at it.

And um, you know, so thank you to the three of them because they put a ton of time and for the counselors who couldn't make it, I absolutely understand.

But wait, there's a second chance.

We'll be wrapping.

And so I'll make sure.

So if you could please, when we're doing the wrapping, is it we're doing some this weekend, not all of it, but I think we're doing is it this weekend or the following?

I don't know.

Okay, sorry.

Do me a favor, find out.

I think it was called.

Uh ask Representative Bootin when they're doing because he's involved in the program as well.

Just ask him when they're doing it and shoot it out.

I I'm sure they're gonna be asking for volunteers.

The wrapping is a big job.

It's you know, the wrapping is more than four hours, so it it it just is.

So, council, I don't believe we needed executive.

What's that kind of all your wrapping is this?

They lay down some music and throw out a few words.

Uh no.

No, different kind of thing.

Okay.

Oh, birds are on.

No, Snoop Dogg.

That's not the kind of or Snoop Raccoon.

That is not the kind of crap we're doing.

Uh okay, council.

Uh I don't believe we need an executive session this evening.

A motion to adjourn would be in order.

Second, and we are adjourned.

Thank you.

Thanks.