Thank you.

And then I'll come back to Councilmember Humbert.

He hasn't weighed in yet on the signature numbers.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Question.

When we talk about the the property owner's consent, are we are we are we making consideration as to whether the property owner is like a normal person or a business entity?

I think it doesn't matter either way.

Sorry, you were saying you think that should be a consideration.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I think I think that's a worthy consideration because I mean the chances of you know some Chinese owned LLC that's buying up all the block uh consenting to this is gonna be uh nil, right?

But the but my neighbor who's a sweet lady um she might be into it, right?

So I'm wondering in terms of just you know market realities and also um you know our policy of creating you know local ownership, right?

Um I wonder if I I think that should be that should be consideration in this topic.

And I still say that um, you know, a proper number for an ordinary person to to succeed with work getting signatures is in that you know 100 to 150 range, possibly 200 with unlimited timetable and true passion.

But um 200 is gonna be really hard as well.

Okay, um council member Humbert Sure, that's fine.

Yeah, um so just just taking a look at uh what everyone has said, it seems that there's some coalescing around this 200 number across whether someone is um uh whether the whether you have the consent from the property owner or not.

Um so I'm gonna just say that out loud.

I understand that that's what's also on the motion.

Um I would like to address this two and a half versus five years piece as well.

Um so if we could quickly go through that just because it's 9 34 and I know we can get this done.

So who would like to speak on that?

We already know where you stand, Councilmember Tracob.

Um you're looking at me.

You want to know what I think?

Um shit.

I have sorry, excuse me.

I had a um I had thoughts about this and they left left my brain.

Uh I know I was leaning towards um they're both reasonable, they're both like reasonable approaches to solve the same problem.

So it's hard to sort of pick one.

Um I was leaning towards the Humbert Kisserwani proposal because I did get kind of called out.

Okay.

Let me give me a minute.

Let me I don't want to just find ha.

Let me think.

Uh anyone else on address.

Okay, Councilmember Bartlett.

I'm sorry, what was my hand still raised?

Sorry about that.

Oh, okay, yes.

Councilmember Taplin.

Yeah, thank you.

Um I I would support the the five years.

Um I think this this phenomenon we're seeing is very real where the economic winds shift and people get their rug pulled out and and projects stall and things escalate and I with the the scale of projects we're likely to see with these.

I have more confidence and faith that we'll be seeing good faith builders.

Thank you.

Um okay.

Um council member Keefe, back to you.

Yeah, I I didn't have a really groundbreaking reason.

Um I think it just um the sort of the one-time aspect of it, I think solved the problem and it and I appreciated that it was a little more forgiving.

I think I I was moved by Councilmember Humbert's argument that you know weird things happen and we should try to make make space make it as um we don't want people to like have it like time out early and I the five years seems fine to me, and I think they've just solved the problem that we're looking to solve in a different way.

So if I have to pick, I pick that one.

Although Vice Mayor Trigobs is also very good.

Okay, thank you.

Um yes, Councilmember Kessarwani.

So yeah, so I I just um I I want to say that you know I wanted to give my rationale for the differentiation on whether you have the property owner or not, but I can live with the 200.

Um, you know, because I I want to saland something and and be able to have some dessert or a drink and go to bed.

So um, so I just wanted to say that and I um of course I support my five years and then um and extending it through the life of the of the um I don't know what the term is, I think it's called um the life of the entitlement, I should say.

So um, and and I believe that's all in Councilmember Taplin's motion.

So I I think we're ready to vote, but I I don't I don't want to get ahead of anyone who might still be in the queue.

Totally, yeah.

I think that uh folks here are fine with this number.

Go ahead, Councilmember Humbert.

Yeah, I I was wondering if I might ask um council member taplin to accept a friendly amendment to have you know if we're gonna it sounds like we're heading for a uh a result here um whether to have staff report back in a year about our experience with the administration of of the new uh modifications to the ordinance.

Yes, I will accept that I will also accept that.

Thank you.

Very good.

Okay, council member traicup Vice Mayor Traeger.

Thank you.

Um I appreciate all the out that has been done and to try to get closer to uh consensus on this.

Um I can uh accept the five years with the one-time uh proviso on the property.

I have I continue and I recognize um that it was in fact my referral that suggested 200 across the board, uh albeit that was in response to the original item based on the testimony that I heard today.

Um I no longer feel comfortable with 200.

I feel much more comfortable with something like 150.

Um I respect if um my colleagues want to stay at 200, I will just not be able to vote for this.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

And then also for the motion makers, I know that there was some language that Councilmember Traegup had brought up that the city attorney had recommended.

So I just want to make sure that besides the numbers themselves, because I know we're not talking about the 30 months we're talking about five years, but I just want to make sure that that would be included.

I don't think so because it doesn't fit into our language.

I guess I'd ask um council member Kessarwani.

Okay.

I'm sorry, don't worry about it.

That's fine.

Okay, all right.

There is a motion on the floor.

Are there any other comments?

Okay.

All right.

Can we take the roll, please?

Okay, so this is uh the staff recommendation with the supplemental changes from Councilmember Kessarwani and Humbert, and also including the language introduced by Councilmember Humbert this evening uh with the change to have it be 200 signatures as a single standard, um, and a request for a report uh in one year on the status of the of the uh new regulations.

Um so that's the motion that we have.

Uh Councilmember Kessarwani.

Yes, Taplan, yes.

Bartlett, yes.

O'Keefe.

Yes.

Blackaby, yes.

Munapara, yes.

Humbert, yes, and Mayor Ishii.

Yes.

Okay, motion carries.

Okay, thank you all so much.

I know that was a lot of sausage making.

I really appreciate all of you very much, staff, and then of course, our chair.

Thank you very much for being here and for the public comment.

Okay, so um that was our final action item, but we will take public comment on items not listed on the agenda, starting with Carol.

So uh speaking of signature gathering, uh today I saw a signature gatherer for a petition.

Gathering signatures on the side of the chase bank.

Uh, I looked at by recruiting people by giving them energy drinks and similar other drinks that were lined up on the table.

This has gotten some media attention.

I looked at the text, which he was very seemed to be very annoyed by my reading reviewing the text.

It appeared to be the competing proposition for the billionaires tax.

This is illegal.

A briefcase with uh $50,000 in it, you're gonna give them a four or five dollar energy drink.

So I did go to the city clerk's office.

They referred me to the DA.

I went to the police department, and the police department said if it's not money, they're not gonna go there.

I thought we should have thank you.

They said he should get the patient.

Appreciate you bringing that.

Hello.

Kelly Hammergren again.

I found the comment at the beginning of the evening from our fire department.

And our unions very concerning.

And I I know we have a budget deficit, and I took a quick scan of what's going to come to the budget committee on Thursday.

And I mentioned I have mentioned before, and I'd like to mention again that when I attended the planning department, planning commission meeting, and Jordan Klein as the director of the planning department spoke and explained the goals of the department.

He said how the planning department didn't have to work with the constraints of the rest of the city because of the way we have handled their budget.

Is that we have that 74% of their budget goes to permits and that comes to them directly?

So they don't have the constraints and they can hire as they wish, where the rest of the city that depends on the general fund has to pay attention and has to come under those constraints.

And I think it's time that we evaluate how the planning department is budgeted, and that they face the same constraints as the rest of the city, and that we are not sacrificing our emergency services for a department that says they don't have to abide by the constraints of the rest of the city.

I think they almost forgot that I was in the audience because I was the only person that stayed to the end of the meeting.

But those were the comments.

Are there any public comments on items not listed on the agenda online?

There's one hand raised.

That is a whole crime.

That's the criminal.

Israelis came zero to old Hebrews.

We need peace.

Netanyahu is a criminal.

He's a thief, he's a criminal, and no difference to kill people because of the religion, then show them because of their color.

Imagine the black, and they leave the colour because they're black.

And the fairy tales mentioned Egypt.

Yeah, city tales.

There's no God.

You guys are just getting screwed by everybody.

Have a good night.

Thank you.

That's all.

Okay.

Um is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

Can we take the roll, please?

Okay.

Uh to adjourn.

Um Council Member Castarwani.

Yes.

Chaplin.

Yes.

Or yes.

I'll keep.

Yes.

Blackaby.

Yes.

Yes.

Umbert.

Yes.

And Mary Sheep.

Yes.

Okay, we're adjourned.

We're adjourned.

Thanks, everyone.

Recording stopped.

And welcome, brothers, sisters, working class heroes.

This is the Rick Smith Show.

Thanks so much for being here today on the big program.

Lots to get to, lots to talk about, of course.

Of course, Donald Trump picks a fight with the Pope.

Of course.

Now, again, wasn't on my bingo card.

Uh like the Iran War wasn't on the bingo card, but it's not like it's not like it's unpredictable.

It's not like we're shock should be shocked by it.

Um, and what's weird is the faith voters.

The faith voters have kind of gotten a little weird, a little squirrely the last several hours, couple of the cut last day or so.

Uh, 'cause as I've said, I I think Trump really doesn't care about the fifty million Catholics in the country.

Uh, he really only cares about himself, maybe surviving the next scandal, and because there's talk of impeachment, which I'm not on board with.

And I know I've gotten a bunch of emails from people going, well, you could no.

If we have that kind of power, we should be using it much more effectively.

Uh, but the weird thing is, um, I gotta tell you, the the evangelicals are even wow.

Uh now.

Uh, he's throwing Vance under the bus, literally everywhere.

Hungary, Iran, and now I guess the Vatican as well.

You know, kind of like a cheap warm-up act for the main event, uh, which I guess would be his own political funeral.

Uh, meanwhile, the base, the loyal, the loud, loyal base of evangelicals.

You know, they're eating up the crazy.

Uh, you got Congress, the Republican led Congress cowering in the corner.

Uh, because well, crossing Trump in this moment they view as his career suicide.

So, yeah, I guess uh the Pope is, I guess, where you're gonna go in uh an attack.

Now, uh, the the image that uh that popped up that I find really interesting.

Uh again, very Trumpian.

Uh, but you do have, you know, the Pope kind of just going, okay.

Uh he said Pope Leo said, I will not shy away from announcing the message of the gospel and inviting all people to look for ways of building bridges of peace and reconciliation.

The Pope said the message of the gospel is very clear.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

And then he added, um, I have no fear of the Trump administration.

Even though they they kind of, you know, they kind of off it kind of threatened off him.

So then Sunday night, this image of of Trump as Jesus pops up on the Truth Social account.

Now, he's saying that it was him being a doctor.

He was, you know, there's there's a bunch of excuses.

But the the Trump Jesus thing, um, you know, was it was interesting.

Again, not on my bingo card, but again, not surprising because a lot of Trump voters have cast him in that like, and this is one of those moments where there really is a thin line between clever and stupid.

Uh, when the faithful are putting out you as Jesus, that's one thing.

But when you put yourself out as Jesus, yeah, that that's a that's a that's a problem.

In fact, so much of a problem that he deleted his own post from his his truth social account.

Something I can't remember, can't remember him doing before.

So interesting.

Now, MAGA world is kind of freaking out because some are even asking, is Trump the Antichrist?

And you go, well, um saying not great.

Uh they're getting the war that they want.

They want a war with Iran, they want the end times to come, they want angry Jesus to come back with a with a sword and chop us all the all us heathens up to pieces.

Yeah, they want that.

But um, you know, Trump yeah, interesting.

Uh now, what I find really amazing is the news media starting to ask some questions.

Uh, for instance, a reporter in the Oval Office outside the Oval Office to ask, uh, is your expectation other countries are going to you know assist in the effort of of the blockade in Iran?

And you know, because we're we're blockading the blockade.

Uh, and he said, Yes, uh, other countries are are gonna also.

Yeah, they're they're they're gonna help he thinks.

And then they the reporter followed up with a question, he said, well, which countries?

And he said, Trump's response, we don't need other countries.

Which means, in very Trumpian terms, there are no other countries.

And understand this blockade of the blockade is really kind of uh an idiot's an idiot scamble.

Because you've now given, you've given Iran this power to toll, kind of, and you're threatening to it's not great.

And Trump is now threatened to blow up boats in the strait.

So Iran is threatened to blow up boats.

We're threatening to blow up boats.

So global trade is is kind of screwed.

And it's not surprising that Americans are going, wait a second, hold on.

Not what we voted for.

Even my red hats, especially my red hats.

We voted for a dollar a dozen eggs.

We voted for a buck a gallon gas, not a buck and a half a gallon increase in gas.

And looking at the economy, I've heard some people going, maybe the Biden thing wasn't so bad after all.

And young people, the latest poll that I saw on young people, um, Trump's losing them.

Uh, a new Yale youth poll finds 57% of all voters disapprove of Trump's handling uh of his job performance and handling of the economy.

But 68% of voters, 18 to 22, 72 percent of voters 23 to 29.

Uh-oh.

And um Trump's lost most of the ground uh with women and with women under 35 and men under 30.

So they're losing what was supposed to be their future.

The young people.

And the question is, is should we be surprised by any of it?

Anyone shocked by any of this?

And that's that's where we I think need to we need to be thinking about how do we use this moment?

Democrats, there's an opportunity, there's an opening.

Don't squander it on impeachment.

Move an agenda.

Move something that's gonna make people's lives better.

Go after that bucket gallon gas and that those eggs.

Maybe reunionize the country.

Here's a start.

Quick break, right back.

From the steel mills of Pennsylvania to the auto factories of Michigan to the modern makers movement.

Manufacturing makes our nation great.

I'm Scott Paul, president of the Alliance for American Manufacturing.

We bring business and labor together to advocate for policies that everyone can agree on.

Together, we can strengthen manufacturing and create good pay American jobs.

Help us keep it made in America.

Welcome back to the Rick Smith Show.

Now here is Rick Smith.

So over the weekend, Bernie Sanders was in New York doing the Bernie Sanders thing.

And look, I've been saying for the longest time, had Sanders been the candidate in 2016, we wouldn't have this Trump nightmare.

Had we the people actually been able to vote for Bernie Sanders in 2016, we wouldn't have this nightmare.

Can I say that again?

Had Sanders, had the Democrats not torpedoed Sanders' campaign in 2016, we wouldn't be living through this nightmare because what Bernie is talking about.

We the working people want.

Yeah, we're we're not enamored by a gazillionaire class that our labor helped create.

And here to share some thoughts on well, the whole kickoff of the unions now uh campaign and well, Sanders being in front of it and Mendami and well, some other folks.

I've asked Michael Sonato to come share some thoughts.

Michael's a labor reporter over at The Guardian.

You can check out their website, the Guardian.com.

Michael, thanks for taking time for us.

Uh always a pleasure.

Thanks for having me on again.

So you you get Bernie Sanders is in New York doing the the Sanders shtick.

I mean, there's nothing new here.

Uh you know, the you know, it's it's about the oligarchs, it's about the wealth class, it's about it getting bigger and more difficult to take on.

And he's he's I don't think he's wrong when saying it's only going to get worse the longer we ignore it.

Uh, what were your thoughts on what he said?

Yeah, the the rage uh, you know, is nothing new.

A lot of what he said, he's been saying for for years, but what I think is a little bit different is just kind of the the attitude uh and him kind of addressing and pointing out the you know billionaires specifically.

I mean, obviously he's always gone about the oligarchs and the class, but uh, you know, he called them you know incredibly greedy, that they have no interest in helping anyone but themselves.

Uh and the these are like diagnoses that uh you know you they would never wind up on uh corporate media TV.

You know, you just wouldn't hear those.

But they you know, for from you know, uh the the perspective, I think, of an average person that sees the uh excessive wealth of people like Elon Musk, and you know what they're doing with it is just nothing, trying to amass more and more while uh not helping anyone.

Uh, you know, Jeff Bezos, his ex-wife is donating, you know, billions and billions of dollars while he's out on the largest yacht uh ever created in the history of the world uh with his own little mini yacht for his big yacht.

So in fact, she's giving away money so fast that she can't give it away fast enough for it not to grow.

She's literally giving it away at a pace where she can't give it away fast enough.

Which is just ridiculous that that was that's how everything is set up.

Like once you're that rich, you could have you know do nothing.

You could spend millions and millions of dollars, but just parking your money is just your wealth is just creating wealth, creating wealth just by doing nothing.

So it's and at a pace where you literally can't give it away fast enough, which I've been saying for the longest time.

Had that wealth been properly distributed through through sane, rational, decent policy, a tax code that ensures that working people get to the front of the line and get to keep the wealth that their labor creates, we wouldn't have sacrificed and given up wages and health care and educational opportunities and infrastructure opportunities and all of the stuff, health and retirement security, all of this stuff, so that we could have this this thousand billionaires who, well, they're great, great, great grandchildren, unless someone really screws it up, uh, will never want for anything ever.

There's something wrong with this scenario.

And look, Sanders is not wrong when he says it's only going to get worse, especially as they use that wealth to create the next generation of who knows what to replace us.

Exactly.

That the current systems we have in place are, you know, obviously letting things get this bad and on the trajectory of things getting where's wealth and income inequality getting worse.

Uh, you have people like Donald Trump that are uh pardoning his friends, uh, you know, giving uh you know golden parachutes to to fraudsters and cheats, uh, you know, other wealthy people giving huge tax breaks to the top one percent, uh and just you know, paving the way for uh billionaires like Elon Musk to steal all of our Social Security data and do god knows what with it.

Yeah, no, the look when if Democrats take control of the House and the Senate come November, uh the day they take they get the gabbles uh is the day that Musk and all of big balls and all the rest of them have to be pulled in, uh you know and and and look, Inquisition style and and held to account, and we need to claw back our data and you know, wherever it takes, wherever it goes, uh we go after those people because uh you're right.

I mean, at some point, uh someone's gotta be held accountable.

Now, this this launch a little bit different.

Uh, this was the launch of the this unions now campaign, uh, which I've been saying for the 21 years I've been doing this show.

If you want to balance the equation, you gotta get make labor unions are that much stronger.

Uh, because if Bezos had to sit across the table and negotiate with the workers that create his wealth, uh, they would be making it would be a much different scenario than what we have now.

So, walk me through what this unions now campaign is and you know and what you think uh where do you think it's going?

So uh, you know, it was created by Sarah Nelson, the head of the association of flight attendants, uh, largest flight attendant union uh in the US and uh one of the higher profile union leaders we have in this country.

Uh and the aim is to you know get fundraising and just pool of resources to help you know workers who are either out on strike or who are in the midst of organizing campaigns.

And I think it came out of this frustrating idea we've been in over the past few years, where we've seen uh, you know, thousands of workers unionize at Starbucks and Amazon, um in you know, workers, you know, it even at those companies, you know, there's many other stores where they weren't successful because of all the union busting, uh different warehouses where they also faced uh you know aggressive union busting.

Uh the Amazon warehouse in Alabama that where uh they lost the first union election, uh rerun election was ordered, and they're seeking uh to have another union election because Amazon won't stop union busting and interfering in the election.

Uh so I I think it's it's been very frustrating for the labor movement as a whole to watch uh companies like Amazon just continue to union bust to delay to uh avoid you know getting uh first union contract.

Uh, you know, we have these laws in place that are supposed to uh ensure collective bargaining rights, but you know, nothing that those rights aren't being protected, they're not being exercised, and you know, uh workers are the ones that are paying the price for it, not just in Amazon, but uh everyone you know in the US who is it was a worker, a member of the working class, uh, you know, is suffering because uh the way things are.

And I think this is just one mechanism to try to um you know push back on you know, every year the union density in the US uh ticks down just a little bit.

I mean, last year we had a slight uptick from 9.9 to but to 10%, but that is uh atrocious uh compared to our counterparts in other wealthy countries that have infrastructure like health care and actual you know retirement, uh actual pay time off, uh you know, the union density is uh atrocious, you know.

And it's the reason we have the kind of mass inequality that we have now.

It's the reason that we and I keep this to me is the key to all of our our ills.

I've said a million a million times in this show if you want to reunite the country, you gotta reunize it.

You gotta give people the ability to fight for better wages, hours, conditions, better better health and retirement security, better opportunities.

uh actual pay time off uh you know the union density is uh atrocious you know and it's the reason we have the kind of mass inequality that we have now it's the reason that we and I keep this to me is the key to all of our our ills I've said a milli a million times in this show if you want to reunite the country you got to reunionize it you gotta give people the ability to fight for better wages hours conditions better better health and retirement security better opportunities and this again this is why I support the Democratic Party in this moment because Republicans have done everything they can do to make that that unionizing effort to make that that much harder every Republican administration has put corporatists in charge of the NLRB and the Department of Labor and all of the machinery that helps workers to organize and to fight for those things uh democrats on the other side put people in who are going to be more helpful so for me uh that's the divide and for those people say oh both parties are the same nonsense on this issue because it's it's right out in front of us what this administration is doing to labor not just federal workers but all up and down the line and for me this is this is that one issue Michael that that really of all of them that is really uh the the there is no comparison between the two in my view no uh you know I I completely agree you have when uh you know the the Republican Party especially with Trump has tried to frame itself as a party of the working class of of workers uh and they'll prop up people like you know the Teamster's president who is willing to uh you know lend some support to them but uh you know in the shadows is uh organizations like National Right to Work Foundation and all those uh you know all other wealthy um you know billionaire backed organizations that uh try to decertify unions try to uh undermine unions try you know the U.S.

Chamber of Commerce pushing uh policies that uh you know are basically union busting policies they uh they don't want unions their donors don't want unions uh you know and they're spending lots of money to get there I look at the laughable freedom foundation the freedom foundation which their only mission is to go after teachers and try and break up and screw with the teachers union that's all they have they're a one trick pony and and look it's it's a it's it's painfully apparent that everyone is a shill for for the big the big moneyed interest to attack teachers and teachers unions and and really unions as a whole but mostly for them it's all about it's all about defunding the teachers union and privatizing education because makes people uh a lot of money it does it does that i mean it's it we're just in one of these moments so you know I look at this unions now campaign given the fact that the last set of polling said you know Americans are are favoring unions uh do you think this this kind of attention uh because I think it's important to run these campaigns I think it's important to be in people's ears and say hey we have a solution a path forward and also for Democrats to to kind of tear themselves away and point fingers at Republicans so do you think this is going to be helpful do you think it's gonna gain some steam do you think the corporate media is going to grab on to you or is it just something that well in in our circles people are talking about but uh gets ignored by the moneyed interests I mean I am trying to be uh a little bit optimistic so I you know I think we need things like this it's not like this isn't the uh you know smoking gun solution to all of our problems obviously but like it's just uh a you know a drop in the well that we have to keep replenishing and refilling and trying to come up with ideas and making an effort not doing the same exact thing over and over and expecting different different results or um you know to you know discuss people's frustrations with the Democratic Party not just you know waiting till the you know the favor goes in their direction and um because we saw that with the the Biden administration President Biden walked to Picket Line he kind of cut telling uh you know the public and portraying himself as like the the most pro-labor president uh in in the history uh of the US and uh you know unfortunately he was you know he might not be wrong at least in recent history but uh what what did that yield uh a lot of the obstacles that were put in place just didn't go anywhere uh you know the pro act passed the house didn't go anywhere and in the Senate and I I think part of the issue the labor movement faces is that um you know everything is kind of so uh you know segregated and put off where uh you know if you have these independent groups of workers that were unionizing um you know uh on their own and you know labor unions were kind of uh you know sensitive and in trying to support them or uh you know get involved uh and you know we saw for all all these union campaigns high profile that are still going on like Starbucks there are ones where you know they they we lost a lot of you know we lost um like Chipotle uh who the CEO of Starbucks was the CEO of Chipotle uh two Chipotle locations actually won union elections uh they closed one of them down and they just I believe they union busted the one in Michigan there's one in no I mean look because there are no penalties for doing this really yeah I mean you know I've said a million times if I were advising a corporation uh to union to to get rid of a union I would just break the law

There are ones where you know they they we lost a lot of you know, we lost, um, like Chipotle, uh, who the CEO of Starbucks was the CEO of Chipotle.

Uh, two Chipotle locations actually won union elections.

Uh, they closed one of them down, and they just I believe they union busted the one in Michigan.

There's one in the look, because there are no penalties for doing this, really.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I've said a million times, if I were advising a corporation uh to union to get rid of a union, I would just break the law.

You know, uh every time it would be malpractice not to advise you to break the law because the laws are so pathetic, which is why lawmakers should be going, maybe we tighten this up so the incentive isn't there to break the law all the time.

Uh, before I get you, let you go.

I gotta you get you got another story caught my attention.

Uh workers who fail corporate corporate BS uh may be worse at their job, according to a Cornell study that you you talked about.

Uh, the study, as I understand, finds that most employees who are uh I guess impressed by by vague corporate jargon, uh, tend to perform worse on an analytical thinking and decision making and and intelligence tests, and so basically what if the you fall for the corporate BS, you're probably not that bright, probably why they would hire you, I guess.

Uh, walk me through what uh what that was about.

It was uh in an in an interesting study from uh a Cornell researcher.

Um so he came up with all of this um you know, corporate speak jargon.

Some of it he made up himself, some of it he pulled from Fortune 500 CEOs and things they say.

Uh and you know, he tested uh you know, people white collar professionals on uh, you know, put them through various tests um to see, you know, uh one if they were susceptible to whatever these slogans were saying, and then gave them gave these people some like basic cognitive tests, and he found uh the people who buy into that crap who um are you know think this the corporate BS and you can go on like LinkedIn or uh any of those finance uh publications or you know, like CNBC or anything like that, and you're gonna be subjected to you know, some of it uh and you know, basically what we see in like corporate spokespeoples and you know how they uh you know speak and address things.

Uh and they found the people who are impressed by it, who uh love it, are uh yeah, perform yeah, you know, uh bad performers, um uh score poorly on cognitive tests and are just like the the worst kind of workers who you don't want to be put in charge.

Um the weird thing for me, Michael, when I was reading through that the study and some of the stuff around it, is uh as an employer, why would you want someone stupid uh other than the fact that you don't want them organizing and fighting and taking your uh your your profits through higher wages, better benefits, better health care, all that stuff.

But why would you want somebody who who's not very bright, other than you just want well, people who are as George Carlin said, you know, years ago, someone just smart enough to do the work, push the papers around, but not smart enough to realize how long they'd be how how bad they'd be getting screwed for 30 years by a system that's benefiting the wealthy.

Uh, I'm not I'm I'm gonna cite my source on that.

But even you know, back you know, 30 years ago, that was accurate.

And I think that uh, you know, we we see it in like you know, things like the office space, like you saw uh, you know, in that movie, um, or or even in the uh show Severance, uh you have this like corporate speak that is just used to uh really just um it's like propaganda to you know get employees to just not ask any questions to the company line, um, you know, things like that.

No, just towing the company line, man.

No, it's not surprising, not surprising.

Michael, as always, incredible work.

Hope folks will check out your work over at the guardian.com.

Uh Michael Sonato, labor reporter.

Thanks so much, man.

No, thanks a lot, Rick.

Uh again, check out his work over at the guardian.com.

Want to hear your thoughts.

Rick at the ricksmith show.com.

Tell me what you think.

Uh, do you do you think the dumb ones are the ones who are falling in for the the corporate speak?

I mean no, Rick at the Rick Smith Show.com.

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So I find out in our neck of the woods, there are going to be uh three data center campuses that are gonna have about five or six buildings on each of the campuses, gonna cover about 700 acres in our area.

And told, uh, I'm told, about 400,000 gallons of water each and every day, and about a gig what, 1.3 gigawatts of power.

And for those of us old enough to remember, you only needed 1.21 gigawatts to get back from the future.

So uh we're going to be using, they're gonna be using a lot of our power, a lot of our water.

And the question is how much are we paying for this privilege of of having these centers?

I look at Virginia.

Uh Virginia's data center tax exemption has cost their state over a billion dollars in 2024, including about 267 million from K through 12 education.

And here to share some thoughts on well, what this means, well, for for all of us, especially for education.

I've asked Anthony Elmo to come share some thoughts.

Anthony is the public education funding defender over at our friends at good jobs first.

You can check out their website at goodjobsfirst.org.

Anthony, thanks for taking time for us.

Happy to do it.

Um, it's a pleasure to be with you today.

So, you know, I'm looking at these these numbers.

Uh we're gonna have this giant center in our neck of the woods, which's gonna drain local resources.

It's yeah, and I'm sure we're gonna have to have a ton of money to go into this.

My first thought, and I guess this isn't really it's more of a rhetorical than anything, is if this is the burgeoning industry, if this is where all the tech money is, why aren't they funding it themselves?

Why are taxpayers on the hook?

And well, why aren't they, I don't know, building their own needs.

Why is it always on us, the taxpayers?

Uh it's a fantastic question.

The the AI data center build out that's happening in the United States is one of the buildings' uh biggest capital expenditures in the history of the country.

Uh, it's as big or bigger than the Manhattan Project.

Um, and uh it is also heavily subsidized, which a lot of many people would be surprised to find out and to know uh that it is heavily subsidized.

And so uh in the Virginia uh report that you just mentioned and alluded to, the 2024 numbers were over a billion dollars of subsidy and incentive.

Uh the 2025 numbers are approaching 1.9 billion dollars uh of subsidy uh or incentive for uh the biggest uh tech companies of the world who absolutely positively do not need subsidies to build data centers.

And so um they will attempt to build them, need to build them regardless of whether they get one dollar of taxpayer subsidy.

Uh and so I think that it's a great uh uh it's a great time for legislators uh and people uh from around the United States to start asking some serious and hard questions uh about the economics of this build out.

Yeah, I mean, you know, the weird part for me is again, everyone seems to go after the education money.

Why is it why is this coming out of education dollars?

Uh it seems to me if you're gonna put these these big tech things in your neighborhood, wouldn't you want to have an education system of workers who could I don't know, maybe fill those data centers unless unless maybe there aren't going to be any real jobs there for for workers anyway.

That the that's true.

There is a lot to unpack there.

Um many people talk about um the competitiveness and they're fearful about touching these tax incentives uh because they're fearful that the the data centers may not want to come to their state.

Virginia, just for example, is already one of the world's leading data center markets because of infrastructure, because of fiber, because of proximity to the federal workforce, uh public investment into public schools that have created a really strong workforce in the state of Virginia, built over decades.

And that those are really many of the big reasons that these companies are coming to Virginia and to other states to set up shop and set up data centers.

It doesn't have anything to do with incentives.

And I think to answer your uh first question about why we're devoting public school dollars to uh subsidize big tech.

I think part of it is that these are runaway uh incentive programs.

These incentive programs were not meant to be as big as they are now.

Um we uh good jobs first will hopefully release a study uh uh in the next few weeks talking about how uh states around the the country decided how much they were going to spend on these programs, and they were wildly wrong about what those costs would be.

Uh in the state of Virginia, it was estimated that this program would cost anywhere from 15 to 20 million dollars a year, not anywhere approaching the 1.9 billion that it now costs the state of Virginia, uh, which is a gigantic increase.

Well it's interesting to me, uh Anthony is you know, I I go back to Amazon when Amazon was shopping around their second headquarters, and there was this this you know, every every community, every city, every everybody just what whatever they could do to get some attention, and everybody knew where that headquarters was probably gonna end up.

It was gonna end up either in the DC Virginia area or somewhere in New York or one of the big areas, but every community across this country, they were doing everything they could do to get some attention, including giving away the baby in the bathwater.

I look at here the reports of the centers that are coming here, 400,000 gallons of water a day, 1.3 gigawatts of power.

This area can, I don't believe can can handle that kind of a loss without everyone paying the bill.

So for me, I don't know that this has been really well vetted, especially among the population as a whole.

And it just seems like it's being thrust on us, like a lot of these these pro-business schemes.

Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right.

The the environment, even moving beyond the economics of uh data centers, the environmental implications are serious.

They are real.

Uh the academic research is starting to catch up now uh with the uh the data center build-out.

And so we're starting to see legitimate academic studies, but particularly in a place like Virginia.

This was just put out by the Piedmont Environmental Council just recently, uh, that there are serious air pollution concerns when it comes to data centers.

This is uh uh a study done with a serious amount of academic rigor.

Um, and so these are starting some of the things that we're starting to see.

We're also starting to see that there are implications to the water runoff and the water, uh the wastewater from data centers, that there are uh potential health impacts from there.

There's a study just recently put forward uh in Rolling Stone magazine um that was built on academic research from the state of Oregon that talks about the negative implications uh of uh of wastewater from data centers.

And so the economics of this are not is not the only part of the story.

Um there are serious environmental concerns um and questions to be answered.

No, excellent point.

And but the the weird thing is I had a conversation with a friend recently who, you know, he sent people that said, Hey, did you see this?

And I go, Yeah, I had.

And he said, were there any public hearings?

Did they advertise that this was coming?

And they go, No, much like the pipeline, they put a quarter of a mile from my house.

They did a really good job of hush-hushing this stuff, so it just greased right through.

Uh, what can average people, what can the people of Virginia do?

Uh one over a billion dollars in in tax subsidies for an industry that clearly does not need it.

It clearly clearly does not.

And so, yeah, and I mean, I think the Virginia example right now is quite interesting.

I mean, you have a fight going on in the state of Virginia between the state senate, between um uh leaders in the state senate who are pushing for the repeal of the sales and use tax exemption for the the repeal of this incentive uh in the state of Virginia, which will cost which will provide you know up to two billion dollars a year in additional revenue for the state, uh, that repeal would.

And so um there's a fight right now.

The there are people in the uh Virginia House of Delegates that are arguing against that that want to continue the program.

Uh, and then you have the governor uh who I think is caught in the middle um and is uh has not come up with a compromise yet as to how Virginia will deal with this.

But we'll see.

The Virginia, there's going to be a special session in the state of Virginia in the next couple of weeks, uh, and we will see uh who wins the day, whether it's the uh the people, uh, whether the communities uh who are fighting against uh these projects and pushing back on the economic implications will uh come out victorious, or whether or not the big tech lobby uh will will win the day.

Yeah, no, uh it's it's gonna be an interesting thing to watch because I don't actually know how it's gonna turn out, but you know, the thing is is we're told that this is this is the job of the future, uh this is our future.

We have to have these data centers, uh, we have to invest in it because everything's gonna be internet, and if you want to do things on the internet, we have to have it.

And obviously, they the the argument they always make is this is gonna bring the next generation of high paying jobs.

Now we've seen this movie in a whole bunch of other industries.

Uh lots of tax dollars going into big projects that never ever come close to what's being promised.

Uh are we seeing the same movie?

Is this are these jobs gonna be the next generation jobs, or is this another example of the rug getting pulled out from under us?

Uh that I don't believe that they are the next generation of jobs in in the United States.

I think there's a couple of different factors to to look at this is data centers are extremely capital intensive, but create very few permanent jobs.

Now, in the short term, over the 18 to 24 month period that they're being built, they do create construction jobs.

And uh I'm a labor guy.

I've worked for the teachers union, I've worked for the food and commercial workers uh union in my career, and um I understand that uh electricians want to put food on their families' tables uh in terms of the build out of the data centers.

The problem is those jobs are temporary, they don't last forever.

Uh, and the amount of money that we are subsidizing uh these jobs uh is uh an extreme amount of money for uh for like you said, an industry that does not need subsidy.

We we strongly believe that those doll those taxpayer dollars should be put in places that benefit um uh working families, whether it's the public school system, whether it's workforce development, apprenticeships, there's all sorts of places where we can put those dollars to better use than subsidizing big tech.

No, the reality is uh I'm not against building stuff and for my building trades friends.

Look, I'm a huge supporter of building stuff, but how about we use that billion dollars to build something that you know that we actually need, like better infrastructure for our roads or bridges, maybe better, I don't know, transmission for electricity, so we don't lose most of it in transmission, and maybe not give that billion dollars to an industry that was going to build anyway.

This isn't a not build or build scenario, it's gonna get built.

The difference is is it gonna be the taxpayers' foot in the bill, or well, our our soon-to-be trillionaire class paying the bill.

That's right.

The uh Virginia, Virginia uh uh the Virginia's uh a joint uh committee on taxation uh found that the state loses 52 cents on the dollar uh for every dollar that it abates or incentivizes uh the data centers.

And so just if you think about it from an economic development standpoint, that they every one of these taxpayer dollars is essentially losing half of its value.

Um it isn't creating long-term wealth for working families uh for communities.

Uh we're not talking about incentivizing an auto plan.

That's not what this is.

Um we're essentially incentivizing a warehouse filled with computer servers, those computer servers then get a sales tax exemption, um, and then those computer servers are bought out of the United States.

Those uh chips are bought from foreign countries uh and are not uh uh being bought from American companies, American chips.

Uh that's not part of the discussion, then I think it should be.

No, I'm right there with you.

But you know, here's here's the other part, the argument I get is if if we don't do this, and and you help me here because um if we don't do it, because they're willing to invest, you know, untold amounts of money in and dominating AI, and AI is the next frontier of the cold war battles, if you will.

Uh this is where warfare and this is where the economic warfare is going to take place.

And if we don't get ahead of AI now, we don't build these centers, we don't build all this stuff now, and give this industry everything they want, we're gonna lose.

And then we're gonna be at the mercy of filling the the enemy.

Uh any any uh any response to that?

Well, we we live in a cat, we at the end of the day, we live in a capitalist system.

And at the end of the day, these companies, these corporations that have uh billion, if not trillion dollar valuations, have more than enough money to build as many data centers as they want to build.

The discussion here is about taxpayer, in some ways is about taxpayer dollars and the and corporate welfare is you know, Virginia just in particular, they aren't competing for this industry.

They have the industry.

This this industry exists in Virginia, and they're going to keep coming back because of the infrastructure they've already built.

You know, what started out as a small incentive in states like Virginia and states like Texas, uh in states like Georgia has now ballooned into the state's biggest giveaway in a lot of ways.

And so in this uh I'm I'm in I'm based in Fort Worth, Texas, and there's a hearing about data centers happening right now in our state and our state house uh to talk about potentially ending this incentive.

And uh this it's a billion dollar giveaway in the state of Texas, multi-billion dollars in Georgia, multi-billion dollars in Virginia.

And uh essentially that's the question we need to be asking.

Is these these big tech companies are going to uh fight hard to move forward with uh AI and with generative AI um and with super intelligent AI, and that's fine.

We live in a free society.

They should, you know, be allowed to do that, but they shouldn't necessarily be allowed to do that being subsidized with taxpayer dollars um to the detriment of the rest of us.

I'm I'm gonna pull back from you over uh I'm with you mostly.

I'm gonna pull back a little bit.

I think these things should be heavily regulated.

I think I I don't want to get too far out ahead of our skis and giving this kind of power to tech giants.

Um but you know if we're going to be giving them money and they fight back on regulation and oversight, it seems like, well, it seems like a fool's errand on our part that we haven't used the leverage of our tax dollars to pull them in the line to make sure that this is truly for the benefit of we the people and not just a handful of tech billionaires who are going to be able to be, well, our our our our oligarchs who uh oversee our government.

No, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.

I mean, we with there needs to be regulation in this industry uh 100%.

One of the things that Good Jobs First is consistently pushing for is more disclosure uh as well and transparency around uh the data center industry.

The data center industry is heavily reliant on non-disclosure agreements as well, which we are vehemently against um in terms of uh of economic development policy.

Uh we're also very much against the lack of disclosure that has happened about who is getting the money.

Uh I'll just put this to you straight in the state of Virginia.

We know from state reports that just five companies receive 82% of these tax breaks uh in Virginia, but we don't know which five companies it is.

We can make an educated guess, but we don't know for sure because the state of Virginia doesn't declose disclose that information.

And some of that information is covered by non-disclosure agreements, and we think that's a major problem.

And so that's one place I think we agree upon that we need more regulation on is uh banning things like NDAs uh in economic development uh and also uh uh mandating disclosure when it comes to economic subsidies in this country.

If you're a corporation that gets a subsidy or an incentive, that should be public record.

I I can't believe you have to say that.

I can't believe that just isn't.

I mean, you know, uh where are my red hats uh who are screaming every time the uh something happens?

Where where are the where are the super sleuths on the internet going, hey, why isn't this here for me to find?

Uh I'm it's amazing.

So last line of questioning I've got for you.

You know, what do we do?

What do people in Virginia do uh who don't want to see a billion dollars uh going to these big companies, hundreds of millions of dollars taken from education?

Uh what do people do if if it seems our political process has already greased the pipe, uh what what do folks do?

Absolutely.

I think get involved in your in your legislative process because if you live in the state of Virginia and you're a voter in the state of Virginia right now, you have the chance to weigh in.

Your your legislature is about to meet to talk about these very issues, whether or not this sales and use tax exemption will continue, the incentive program will continue, uh, and what your budget will be uh in regards to that.

These are real taxpayer dollars on the line.

Uh, like uh we said in our report um in fiscal year 2024, it was 267 million dollars of money that should have gone to public schools that instead went to subsidize an industry that doesn't need subsidies.

And so you can make uh Virginia voters can make their uh voices felt right now in the legislature.

Call your delegate, call your senator, have that discussion with them.

Um there are many different groups that we work with um in the state of Virginia coalition with the Piedmont Environmental Council as one who's led their coalition for a long time.

They're organizing um community conversations, um, phone banks, things like that.

Um, you see uh people like uh Bernie Sanders and uh Alexander Ocasio-Cortez pushing for moratoriums nationwide uh making it a federal issue as well.

And so you can see there's organizing happening uh both at the federal level and at the state level uh to really bring this into the public square.

So I urge people to get involved.

Now's the time to complain.

Uh, talk to your representatives, talk to your elected officials uh and weigh in about how you feel about this.

So now's the time.

Good jobs first.org, the website.

If you want more information, Anthony Elmo, I appreciate the time.

Talking with you again real soon.

Thank you.

Want to hear your thoughts.

Email me, Rick at the Ricksmithshow.com.

What do you think?

Should we be braining this stuff in?

Do you support the mass expansion of these data centers?

You want one in your backyard?

I know NIMBY.

Uh, I want to hear your thoughts.

Rick at the Ricksmithshow.com.

Right back, stick around.

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We're working people come to talk.

So I don't know if you've been paying attention to the the moon thing.

I think it's actually pretty cool that that we're gone to the other side of the moon.

I think it's the furthest anyone's ever gone.

I think it's pretty incredible.

Uh, but I came across this uh this opinion piece over at the Washington Post that is I'm in line with uh the fact that we've given so much money that of that we should be spending on NASA to well, Elon.

Uh the fact that we've spent what was a hundred billion dollars on the Artemis uh moon landing project so far.

Uh and I would argue that you know it it's a poor investment in tax dollars when all of the money seems to flow upward in these private for firms instead of uh it benefiting all of us uh when SpaceX is kind of the you know, and other companies when they take the technology that we pay for and then profit off of use it against us.

And look, I look at the the the opinion piece uh on Artemis and SpaceX, and it I think it captures my frustration, and I think the frustration of ordinary Americans who feel that you know we're told we're winning, we're winning the space race, but we're not seeing the winnings.

Uh the idea that the Artemis program has already cost some a hundred billion dollars, while the main beneficiaries are a handful of billionaire-led companies.

Um it kind of feels like a replay of the same old story we we see in tech or on Wall Street or in defense contracts.

We the public, we pay the upfront risks.

Uh, we take all of the responsibility, we front all of it, and the private sector walks away with the profits.

And for working class households like mine, try to afford groceries, child care, health care.

That kind of price tag for the moon landing feels well, a little less inspirational and kind of more like uh another rig system.

And look, I'm all in.

I love the fact that we're doing it.

I just uh the profiteers are uh are sucking everything out of it.

And look, it doesn't mean that I'm I'm against space exploration, much the contrary.

Uh I think it has an incredible value, but from a working class perspective, I still believe in the importance of science discovery and pushing you know the human, not mind and and knowledge forward.

And look, space-based research.

Um, it's given us better weather weather forecasts, um, you know, satellite-based navigation, uh, materials that we wouldn't have had medical advancements that have trickled down to everyday life.

The problem isn't the dream of going to the moon or to Mars or it's the way that dream is being funded.

And that's my problem in all of this.

Privatization to me is is the devil.

Uh, who benefits from this?

Is it us or is it a handful of billionaires?

When the government hands tens of billions of dollars to private companies while infrastructure back here on Earth is rusting, it looks less like a national project and more like a boondoggle for corporate balance sheets.

Uh, look, SpaceX and other companies, um, they have clearly uh driven some innovation and brought down the cost of launches.

I would argue in ways that I'm not thrilled with.

Uh, but we as as liberals, we can look at this and applaud the move forward.

But the fact that private companies can now deliver payloads to orbit more cheaply and more frequently than before, um, okay, you go it's a sign of healthy competition.

Maybe they're doing this.

But the sad reality is my view has been uh they're trying to figure out how they can get stuff back that they can become trillionaires.

Instead of that stuff trickling down and becoming part of all of our benefits.

The current model is turning our space program and has already turned our space program into a revolving door of government contracts that boost stock prices and billionaire egos more than they help expand public opportunity.

And from my perspective, my point of view, the win should be measured not just in flags on the moon, but in the good paying jobs, the regional development, and the technologies that make all of our lives better, not just the investors.

There's also a strategic concern.

I gotta be honest, it resonates even with me.

Um about the concentration of power if the entire U.S.

crew capable of of the capacity is run by one company.

Um, and it's not our company.

It's not of foreign by, we the people, it's a private profit-seeking company.

Doesn't that create a dangerous bottleneck and an incentive to well fleece us at every opportunity?

And wouldn't a better approach be, I don't know, more public-centered, gold-minded, more investment in NASA-led science, more open in infrastructure.

Uh, wouldn't that be better?

Wouldn't contracts that were paid out and then had to come back to us, wouldn't that be better?

Creating long-term stability, creating some some some training programs, again, economic development.

Wouldn't that be a little bit better?

I gotta tell you, for me, uh, watching these big companies line their pockets with our tax dollars should be something that makes all of us angry.

Um but that said, I still think it's pretty cool that we've gone as far as we've gone and what they're planning.

Uh I'm excited to buy.

Want to hear your thoughts.

Email me, Rick at the Ricksmithshow.com.

Agree, disagree, Rick at the Ricksmithshow.com.

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And thanks so much for being here.

We'll see you back here next time.

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No, no, no, stop.

Stop.

If you're feeling as exhausted and as frustrated as I am, then I have something for you.

I'm CJ Krim, and for the last four years, I've been documenting the fight against that.

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Film critics are calling it powerful and moving, deeply impactful and uplifting, a refreshing and welcome note of hope for change.

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Then Republican Congress member Tony Gonzalez and Democrat Eric Swolo resigned from Congress over mounting allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

And finally, two peace activists, one Israeli, one Palestinian.

Aziz Abu Saro's brother died after being tortured in Israeli prison.

They have a new book.

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All that and more coming up.

Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report.

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The U.S.

naval blockade of Iranian ports has entered its third day, according to U.S.

Central Command.

The blockade is being enforced by more than 10,000 U.S.

troops over a dozen warship and dozens of aircraft.

Vessels traveling to or from non-Iranian ports are allowed to pass through the Strait of Hormuz.

This comes after U.S.

Iran ceasefire talks collapsed over the weekend in Islamabad Pakistan.

President Trump told the New York Post Tuesday that new U.S.

Iran talks, quote, could be happening over the next two days.

Separately, Trump told Fox News the war is, quote, close to over, unquote.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post reports the Pentagon sending thousands of additional troops to the Middle East in the coming days.

Since the U.S.

Israeli war in Iran erupted, the U.S.

military has acknowledged 399 American troops have been wounded.

Iran's forensic chief told state media more than 3,000 Iranians have been killed.

The President of Iran's Red Crescent Society said emergency teams had rescued more than 7200 Iranians from rubble after U.S.

Israeli bombings.

This is the Iranian president Massood Pazeshkiyan.

What had we done?

For what reason did they martyr our commanders, our scientists, our students?

What was their reason?

Why?

What had we done?

Had we attacked anyone?

Had we violated any law?

What had we done?

In Washington, D.C., U.S.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio Tuesday hosted the first direct talks between Israel and Lebanon in more than three decades.

Hezbollah, which was not a party to the talks, made clear it will not abide by any agreement that results from the negotiations.

Meanwhile, Israeli forces continued to bomb towns in southern Lebanon today, according to Lebanese state media.

Several people were killed in a strike on the coastal town of Ansaria.

According to Lebanon's health ministry, Israeli attacks have killed more than 2100 people, wounding nearly 7,000.

Over a million Lebanese have been displaced, while the World Food Program warns of a spiraling hunger crisis in the region.

In Gaza, Israeli forces killed at least 11 Palestinians Tuesday, including two children in separate attacks.

Four people were killed, including a three-year-old in a strike targeting a police vehicle in Gaza City, with at least nine bystanders wounded.

Later that evening, another Israeli drone strike hit Shatti refugee camp, killing several people.

What is his fault?

What is his crime?

He should be wearing a wedding suit today at his cousin's wedding.

Kuwaiti American journalist Ahmed Shahab Eldin has been held in a Kuwaiti prison for six weeks.

He was arrested March 3rd in Kuwait City and faces prosecution in a special tribunal.

On March 2nd, he shared photos and videos of a U.S.

fighter jet that crashed in Kuwait on his Substack page.

Content that was not exclusive to him and had appeared on other platforms.

Kuwaiti authorities have charged Shahab Eldin with spreading false information, harming national security, and misusing his cell phone, which the Committee to Protect Journalists describes as quote, vague and overly broad accusations that are routinely used to silence independent journalists, unquote.

His detention is part of a wider crackdown on online speech in Kuwait and other Gulf countries during the U.S.

Israeli war on Iran.

In the United Arab Emirates, authorities say police detained 375 people across Abu Dhabi over the course of the war for filming and disseminating what officials called false information on social media.

Shahab Eldin is a graduate of Columbia Journalism School, where he's also taught as an adjunct lecturer.

He's worked with several outlets, including PBS, the New York Times, and Al Jazeera English, and has more than two million followers online.

Italy's right-wing prime minister, Georgia Maloney, announced Tuesday, Italy is suspending its defense cooperation agreement with Israel.

This comes after Israeli forces fired warning shots at an Italian UN peacekeeping convoy in Lebanon.

Italy summoned Israel's ambassador in protest over the incident, which damaged at least one vehicle.

Meanwhile, President Trump criticized Maloney for failing to join the U.S.

in its attacks on Iran, telling an Italian newspaper, quote, I'm shocked at her.

I thought she had courage, but I was wrong, Trump said.

This is the Italian Prime Minister, Georgia Maloney.

Taking into account the current situation we're experiencing, the government has decided to suspend the automatic renewal of the defense agreement with Israel.

Both of them faced potential expulsion votes after they were accused of sexual misconduct.

Meanwhile, another woman has accused Congressmember Swalwell of sexual assault, saying he drugged and raped her in 2018.

Lana Drews is the fifth woman to come forward with allegations against Walwell.

She spoke at a news conference in Los Angeles Tuesday.

And he choked me.

And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness.

And I thought I died.

Several leaders with the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers were granted clemency.

Tuesday's filing by the DOJ would erase the convictions from their records.

Judge Bosberg then launched a probe into Trump administration officials condemning their actions as unlawful.

The ACLU's Lee Galert, who is the lead attorney for the Venezuelan plaintiffs in the case, condemned Tuesday's ruling by the appeals court as quote, a blow to the rule of law.

Galarant said in a statement, quote, the stakes could not be higher if the executive branch is ultimately allowed to avoid accountability for deliberately violating a court order, especially one of this magnitude, Galernt said.

Parallel border walls are also reportedly planned in California, New Mexico as part of Trump's crackdown on immigration.

And in Tennessee, the NAACP is suing Elon Musk's XAI, accusing the artificial intelligence company of polluting black neighborhoods with toxic emissions from its makeshift power plant fueling its data centers in Memphis.

The lawsuit alleges XAI is violating the Clean Air Act by operating over two dozen methane gas burning turbines without legal permits.

The massive XAI data centers are known as Colossus and Colossus II.

To see our coverage of this story, go to our website, DemocracyNow.org will also be doing more on Earth Day.

That's next April 22nd.

In related news, Maine's become the first state in the nation to ban large data centers.

Maine Lawmakers Tuesday approved the statewide measure which would prohibit the construction of new data centers that use up more than 20 megawatts of power until the fall of 2027.

And those are some of the headlines.

This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report.

I'm Amy Goodman.

U.S.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio hosted the Israeli and Lebanese ambassadors in Washington Tuesday and the first direct talks between Israel and Lebanon in over 30 years.

The talks come as Israel continues to bomb areas across Lebanon and expand its occupation of parts of southern Lebanon.

Israel says they're focused on disarming and dismantling Hezbollah.

More than 2100 people have been killed and over a million displaced.

Hezbollah, which was not a party to the talks, made clear it will not abide by any agreement that results from the negotiations and called the talks a national sin.

Speaking to reporters after the talks in Washington, Israel's ambassador to the United States, Yachiel Leider, praised the Lebanese government for standing up against Hezbollah.

Warned the government of Lebanon yesterday not to participate in these talks.

And the government of Joseph Allen Bravely said no to Hezbollah.

And this is the beginning of a very strong and fortified consistent battle against Hezbollah.

They are weakened as they've never been, and together we'll continue to rid the threat of this Iranian proxy, which is so maligned and so malignant in the region.

She also called for a ceasefire, the return of the displaced to their homes, and measures to alleviate the humanitarian crisis.

To discuss all this and more, we're joined in London by Daniel Levy, president of the U.S.

Middle East Project, former Israeli peace negotiator under two Israeli prime ministers.

His recent op-ed for The Guardian is headlined what Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli right really mean when they invoke greater Israel.

Well, let's start there, Daniel Levy.

What do they mean?

Good to be with you, Amy.

What I try to set out in that piece that's also on my sub stack is we tend to think, understandably, that Greater Israel is exclusively about territorial expansion and settlement.

And of course, that has been part of the story of Israel and displacement of Palestinians has been the centerpiece of that.

What I'm suggesting is there's a something additional, more geopolitical, more strategic in play here.

That Netanyahu is trying to turn Israel into a dominant regional power.

But Israel understands that if it is going to be able to continue its policy of zero-sum eradicationism towards the Palestinians, it needs a quiescent region.

And for that, it needs to be surrounded by states that have either been dismantled that cannot therefore challenge Israel, or by states that have been co-opted, in which Israel has created relations of dependency.

And often that will mean weakening a state.

And so I place that in the context of this war against Iran.

It needs America to achieve that.

It needed America for that war against Iran.

If you can remove Iran as some kind of a power balancer and deterrent, if you can, for instance, weaken the Gulf and create relations of dependency of the Gulf states on Israel, significantly more than you have today, then that our project begins to look possible.

I think it's overreach.

Israel will tell us its deterrents, but its domination.

Israel will tell us its survival, but it's hegemony.

So talk about these rare negotiations that took place in Washington overseen by the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

The first time Israel and Lebanon have held negotiations in over 30 years.

One of Israel's key ultimatums is the disarmament of Hezbollah.

Can you talk about how these negotiations are unfolding?

Yeah, let me try and do that.

There were, by the way, uh, meetings uh in Nakura in Lebanon at the end of last year of official Israeli and Lebanese teams, which were very unusual uh in December and January, December 25, January 2026.

But I I guess this kind of official uh termed as a negotiation uh hasn't been seen for an awfully long time.

Now, what the Israeli side comes to this with is something that is designed to sound eminently reasonable.

Of course, if there is a non-state actor, that should not be able to carry arms and decide when the state of Lebanon is taken to war.

And therefore, what could be more obvious than a disarmament uh in that context, take a step back and let's understand why the position Israel is asserting is anything but reasonable.

You have a resistance in Lebanon, you have an armed group, and you have a very weak central state, partly because that's uh a deterrent strategy by Iran, but it only is sustainable because Israel is a country that has invaded Lebanon, I think it's seven times now, maintained a military occupation of the south of Lebanon, and is sat and established its own proxy militia to run that for 18 years, 1982 to 2000.

Since then continues to violate Lebanese airspace, Lebanese sovereignty on a daily basis, even since the ceasefire reached in November 2024.

There have been, as of a couple of months ago, the UN counted 10,000 Israeli violations, 300 Lebanese killed during the so-called ceasefire.

That sounds familiar from Gaza, well, it should.

And so the idea that Israel can come to the table with clean hands, make these demands of a Lebanese government that it knows is in no position to implement that.

It also knows that this Lebanese government did try and create the political conditions where you could begin to move towards at least the south of Lebanon, and then later the rest of Lebanon, where a political arrangement could be reached that Hezbollah would not carry on with this same capacity.

Israel knows that what it is doing here is it is trying to put something that sounds reasonable on the table, but with the intention of embarrassing and humiliating the Lebanese government, which cannot carry these things through, because it, Israel, has created the conditions which makes that impossible, and it did so.

Let's just remind ourselves.

It did so off the back of one of the most violent, destructive, and ugly military strikes against a country that has known very many bad days, Lebanon, on the day after the ceasefire was declared.

So Israel creates the worst possible conditions in which to make a demand which is intended to not be achievable, and it seems to throw Lebanon back into a civil war.

That's an outcome that Israel openly talks about.

Let me say something, Amy.

When I was involved as a negotiator, the first thing I learned, the first thing I was told is if you're going to have a successful negotiated outcome, not a diktat, not a military-imposed outcome, but a negotiated outcome.

And Israel is doing the precise opposite, including the words we heard from the ambassador yesterday, designed to embarrass his Lebanese interlocutor, designed again to embarrass the Lebanese government.

This is not an exercise in problem solving.

This is an exercise in trying to pursue a zero-sum agenda which has nothing in it for the Lebanese side.

Finally, if you can talk about what's continuing to happen in the West Bank and Gaza, the number of people who have died just in the last few days, let alone the hundreds since the so-called ceasefire.

Yeah, and I so appreciate you pulling us back to that because that's the story that so many people want to leave behind, move on from pretend isn't there.

We are told that there is a ceasefire in Gaza during that ceasefire, in excess of 700 Palestinians have been killed.

There have been killings every day.

Israel continues to occupy directly over 60% of the Gaza territory.

Israel continues to conduct daily military operations to prevent much of what is desperately needed and simultaneously to pursue its most destructive campaign in the West Bank that we have seen in decades, uh probably since 1967, where hearing that, for instance, Marwan Bal Guti, a prisoner in Israeli jails, has been roughed up, uh, badly beaten on on a number of occasions.

Recently, we've seen images of Palestinians being allowed to return to refugee camps in Janin for the first time in an awfully long time, and seeing the destruction that has taken place there.

It only makes sense in the context of what Israel itself defines as the pursuit of what it calls total victory, which means the permanent displacement of Palestinians physically, but also displacement of the idea that a Palestinian national collective will ever have its rights, its basic freedoms.

And that is all continuing for one very simple reason.

That Israel has been emboldened and empowered, and that's true on the Palestinian front, but it's also true regionally.

That's why America was sucked into this war.

Israel has been emboldened and empowered by the impunity with which it has been treated for decades, never held accountable, and that encourages what we see today, which is horrible to behold, not only in terms of what it is doing to Palestinians, Lebanese, the region, but also what it means in terms of the extremism inside Israeli society itself, how consent in society was manufactured for an ongoing genocide.

Daniel Ivy want to thank you for being with us, president of the U.S.

Middle East Project, former Israeli peace negotiator under Yitzhak Rabin and Prime Minister Ehud Barak.

Thank you so much for joining us.

This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org.

I'm Amy Goodman.

As we go now on the ground to Lebanon, where the Israeli military bombed towns in southern Lebanon today, according to the Lebanese state media.

Several people were killed in a strike in the coastal town of Ansaria.

According to Lebanon's health ministry, Israeli attacks have killed over 2100 people, wounding nearly 7,000.

Over a million Lebanese have been displaced.

40,000 homes have been destroyed or heavily damaged.

We go now to Beirut, where we're joined by the investigative journalist and writer Layla Yunus.

Her latest piece for dropsite news headline, massive Israeli assault on Lebanon threatens US Iran ceasefire.

Layla, your own family's village in the south in uh Bint Jabel, right near the border with Israel was bombed just yesterday.

Before I ask you about the response to the Israel-Lebanon negotiations taking place in Washington, can you tell us about your village and how you found out about what's been destroyed in this latest bombing?

Thanks for having me back, Amy.

Um, what we're finding out about our villages, really the way that everyone and the border region is learning about um what's happening in their villages, which is through satellite imagery that is being released.

Um much of it from the Israeli military.

Um, so they've kind of revealed these before and after shots.

We saw one also from a few days ago of the village of El Chem.

Um my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Um, where um, you know, you know, you see literally what what was once a built environment reduced um to dust.

And the same thing with Bentejbel.

So yesterday we received imagery of um the very famous hundreds-year-old mosque of the village, uh, the Grand Mosque of Ben Tejbel, basically flattened.

And so that's really how we're learning about the destruction of our homes is through saddling imageries because we can't be there because it is obviously the forefront uh of this battle.

So what are your family members saying?

And what do you uh understand the rest of the world understands about what's happening in southern Lebanon as Israel says they're just trying to uh disarm to wipe out Hezbollah?

Well, what we're seeing is is it's a scorched earth campaign.

I mean, we're seeing images similar to those that that we saw in Gaza, which is um civilian areas reduced to rubble.

I shouldn't have to tell you that this is obviously against international law to target civilian areas in this way.

They're going in with armored bulldozers, you know, they begin with their artillery shelling and they go in and then they tear up the street, they tear up the homes.

And of course, many of these areas were severely damaged in the last round of fighting in 2024, and they're sort of finishing them off now, uh, particularly again the border region where they're able to actually reach these areas with these bulldozers.

I mean, I think what the world should know is that we will return to these villages, and when we do, we'll return to rubble, and it will be an immense process of rebuilding.

And you know, I think Amy, like for us, um, you know, it's not just real estate that is lost when these homes are destroyed.

It's it's not just a house.

It's um, you know, it's it's uh our grandparents built these structures.

These structures are you know sacred to the families of these regions, um, you know, in the same way that the Israeli military flattened vast swaths of of Gaza's cultural heritage, universities, mosques, archives, the same thing is happening in southern Lebanon.

It's this exact same playbook.

Um, and so, you know, it what is being used uh or being explained in terms of some self-defense strategy is really in fact an effort at um, you know, destroying a people.

Uh Leila, can you respond to what's happening in Washington with Marco Rubia, the Secretary of State presiding over the first negotiations between Israel and Lebanon in over 30 years, Hezbollah is not included.

What is your analysis and the response of people on the ground in Lebanon as Israel continues to bomb Lebanon through these talks?

The Lebanese people is deeply divided on the question of negotiating directly with Israel.

Um I've spoken to people on both sides and both camps.

You know, you'll those who kind of stand with the government in these negotiations will tell you, hey, listen, you know, we're a poor Mediterranean nation, um, unable to uh stand up to Israel militarily, look at Egypt, look at Jordan.

Um, they've, you know, uh uh, they look like they're doing all right with door normalization agreements.

Why can't we do the same?

But of course, a very large percentage of the country, particularly those the majority in the areas under the heaviest bombardment are vehemently opposed to negotiations, primarily because Lebanon is still being bombed, as you just said, you know, uh just this morning, right?

Uh, an aid convoy or an aid van, sorry, on the on the highway and the coastal highway in the south was bombed.

We see images of, you know, uh baby formula and diapers spread across, you know, the blood of these these drivers who were killed, exactly when we could do today, a massive bombing campaign across civilian areas, killing over 300 people, you know, in what Lebanese are calling Black Wednesday.

Um, so for many, uh, you know, also, of course, the exclusion of Hezbollah from these talks makes many believe them to be unserious.

The talks are about Hezbollah's weapons, but Hezbollah isn't there, and the Lebanese government, as Daniel said before me, is unable to disarm this group.

So, what exactly are these negotiations really doing other than you know, giving Netanyahu uh basically the green light to kind of, or or at least uh the ability to buy more time for his aggression in Lebanon, something clearly uh stated already by the Israeli press.

And I think, you know, it's also important to remember many Lebanese don't see the Israelis or their American guarantors as a reliable negotiating partners, you know.

The Oslo peace process was supposed to be a peace process.

Instead, you know, in the subsequent decades, we see the entrenchment of the occupation, settlement building in the West Bank, the transformation of the Palestinian authority into this um, you know, effectively a police force uh for the Israelis.

Uh, and of course, in the 15 months before uh the current escalation, right?

Uh the UN counted over 15,000 violations by Israel of the agreement with Lebanon.

You know, I I first time I came on your show, Amy, I um I told you about a man named Mustafa Arut from the border village of Mesa Jabal.

Um, and he uh had lost two young relatives, Haider and Duke, ages two and four under Israeli bombs in the early days of this escalation.

And I I've been following up with him throughout this war, and I reached out to him this morning because I wanted his thoughts on the negotiation.

I want to review what he said.

I translated it.

Um he said, how are you going to negotiate with an enemy that is killing you under the bombs?

We can only negotiate from a logical place, not while we are under fire.

We have to first protect our people, protect our country.

We left our home with nothing but the clothes on our backs.

We have fled five times over the course of our lives.

Since the year 1948, we have paid with our blood.

We don't want parties, we don't want masters.

We want a nation.

We want the state to protect us as