Good morning.

My name's Ben Weber.

I'm the district six city counselor and the chair of the Boston City Council on Ways and Means.

Today is May 5th, 2026, and the exact time is ten AM.

We did send out a notice that this hearing is going to start at ten fifteen.

My apologies.

But this hearing is being recorded, it's also being live streamed at Boston.gov/slash city dash council dash TV and broadcast on Xfinity Channel 8, RCN, Channel 82, and FIOS Channel 964.

The council's budget review process will encompass a series of public hearings that began in April and will run through June.gov slash council-budget.

So you can give testimony in person or by Zoom, in person testimony.

For that, you need to sign up on the sign-in sheet near the entrance.gov, or by emailing Chris Machohan at K-A-R-I-S-H-M-A.CHOUHAM at Boston.gov.

When you are called to testify, please state your name and affiliation or your residence and limit your comments to a few minutes.

We'll give you two minutes to testify.

In lieu of showing up at a hearing virtually or in person, you can email written testimony to the committee, which can be sent to our web or email address at ccc.wm at Boston.gov.

Lastly, you can submit a two-minute video of your testimony through the forum on our website.

For more information on the council budget process and how to testify, please visit the city council's budget website at Boston.gov/slash council dash budget.

In-person public testimony will be taken following the first round of counselor questions.

Individuals will be called on the order in which they've signed up and will have two minutes to testify.

Again, if you uh need to uh sign up for public testimony online and haven't done so, you can email our director of legislative budget analysis, Karishma at K-A-R-I-S-H-M-A.CHOUHAN at Boston.gov for the zoom link and your name will be added to the list.

Today's hearing is on docket number 0733 to 0740, an overview of the FY27 operating budget for the planning department.

Okay.

This uh is one of a series of hearings to review the fiscal year 2027 budget.

These matters were sponsored by Mayor Michelle Wu and were referred to the committee on April 8th, 2026.

I'm joined by my colleagues in order of arrival, Councillor Flynn.

Um, uh generally we waive opening statements uh at these budget hearings.

So I'm just gonna introduce the panel.

We're joined by Chief of Planning Kyro Shan, uh Deputy Chief Devin Quirk and Executive Director Teresa here.

Paul Polinus.

Paulinas, okay.

Um, okay, so we are gonna if you have a presentation, we'll hear your presentation and then we'll go to counselor questions.

Thank you.

Good morning uh Chair Weber and Counselor Flynn.

Uh we do have a brief presentation to give you some general orientation and um the presentation will be divided into a few sessions.

I will briefly go over the mission of the planning department and the org chart, and then um talk briefly a little bit about our work, and then I will pass it on to uh Devin to go over specifically some of the accomplishments in in terms of development and transformation that the planning department has um implemented over the last year, and then we'll finish with a budget overview that would be led by Teresa.

Um, so you know, our mission statement is quite straightforward.

Um in this moment of need, we have an opportunity and an obligation to change how we plan for Boston's future.

We're charting a new course for growth with people as our compass.

This is a direct quote from Mayor Wu on January 25th, 200 uh 2023.

Um, our mission, as you can uh, is quite direct.

Uh we are organize um, our work is organized around taking on some of the key challenges that the city faces today, and we summarized it in three brief categories affordability, equity, and resilience.

Now, the larger mission of the planning department um that has been charted by Mayor Wu is to really transform the planning and development culture that our city has been um structured in for almost 70 years since open renewal, and there are a few sort of key components of that.

Uh central to that in the first term of Mayor Wu's administration was to actually remake a new city planning department with a few key objectives.

Number one, to build uh greater trust and accountability for the planning activity of our department.

Number two, to enlarge the table where these kinds of discussions on planning and development were occurring, and then three, to elevate the dialogue and knowledge that is uh used in these forums.

Now, to that extent, there are a few direct um applications of these principles.

Number one, that our planning department always puts planning first.

Second, um, we actually systematically look at modernizing the city's zoning regular zoning and other planning regulations, and then finally, um, to reform the development review and permitting process that is uh central to the planning department's work.

So in that, within that general framework, we have spent a lot of time working with the community on long and short-term plans.

We have really modernized our zoning code to be much more predictable and accountable.

And then we have spent time working on a much more inclusive design standard.

And with the Article 80 reform, we have actually created a much more predictable and transparent development review procedures.

I'm going to turn briefly to the organizational structure, our planning department, I'm responsible for the policy and decision making, but there are a number of business lines or functions that are key to our the success of the department.

There is planning and zoning, then there is urban design, development review that administers the Article 80 process and interfaces with the rest of the city on permitting.

And then, of course, there is planning, coordination, and implementation.

And we have a large real estate division that manages and operates property that is under the ownership of the BPDA.

And then, of course, behind the scenes is a significant set of operations related to administration and operations.

Let me start by talking a little bit about the work that we have been engaged in in this last year.

Some of the adopted plans that in the past year include the Harvard Enterprise Research Campus District and Greenway Plan that was finally codified in the last BPDA board meeting.

Downtown zoning, new downtown zoning was adopted in September of last year.

And we had a closeout meeting just last week for the Chinatown zoning, which we have been working on for over two years.

And then, of course, one other kind of important administrative work that we've done is that the groundwater conservation overlay district was updated to again streamline the projects that actually require that approval.

Some of the important things that we're working on right now that will extend to next fiscal year, include some conclusions of finishing some work in Squares and Street, particularly in Cleary Square and Fields Corner.

We have started a fairly ambitious replan for a community plan for Austin Brighton.

There is also work that we are coordinating with the state and the federal government on the Beacon Park Yards and the realignment of the I-90 turnpike in Alston.

And one of the most exciting pieces of work which is we're doing every day is that we're looking to update neighborhood housing zoning that will again one of the things that it's tackling is actually making many of the existing residential buildings that are non-compliant with the underlying zoning to make it compliant.

And what that will do is that it will enable much easier reinvestment and modifications to existing homes without triggering the Board of Appeal process, and then also enable auxiliary auxiliary dwelling units to be actually implemented in many of our neighborhoods.

We're also embarking on a very ambitious citywide needs assessment.

And this is us systematically trying to understand the assets and liabilities of each of our neighborhoods, and its intention, when completed, is to actually be able to not only guide how the planning department regulates private investment, but also provide an objective set of facts for how the public can allocate it its resources in our neighborhoods.

And most importantly, perhaps it sets out a notion of how each neighborhood, what each neighborhood's relative responsibility in meeting the challenges that the city face in terms of housing production, resiliency, investment, and of course affordability.

And then one of the things that I want to finish highlighting is that we are implementing new planning review standards.

In the Article 80 in particular, we have developed new templates so to actually make the review process much smoother and much more efficient.

I'm going to talk just a little bit about, I think some of you know because you have been participating in the downtown rezoning process.

Some of the highlights of this is that we already have seen variants down by 10% since the rezoning.

And then some of the what we would consider very reasonable and typical kinds of uses, such as nail salons, are now actually as of right in the downtown.

When we were looking at this work, some of the things that we discovered was that there were land uses that was specified that are no longer in, let's say, common practice anymore.

Some of the other things that we've worked on in the urban design division in particular have been to elevate the quality of design throughout our neighborhoods.

You see a few of the we have adopted new design guidelines and reviews and review procedures.

One of the things that we're very proud of that I'm going to speak more directly to is the planning academy.

And then, of course, we've also done a number of tactical activation projects in the downtown this last year that we will be actually expanding and deploying in other neighborhoods.

And then one of the things that we are doing behind the scenes is updating the databases that we have on historical assets and open space assets.

Um for the first session of our new planning academy.

I mentioned to you earlier on that one of the key components of transforming the culture around planning and development is to elevate the dialogue.

And this planning academy is a direct step of actually introducing and educating or providing an opportunity for citizens that are interested in our planning process to learn more about how planning is conducted in the city.

So unlike an academic program on planning, which is more abstract, this planning academy is focused on how people, citizens can actually participate in the planning of our communities and actually engage directly and understand the constraints that we have, both the fiscal and physical and cultural constraints, but at the same time be impactful in helping us implement change.

So with that, I'm going to pass it on to Devin here to go over some of the accomplishments that we have that we made over the last year.

Great.

Thank you, Karis, and thank you, counselors, for having us here.

It's always great to have the opportunity to come down and talk about the hard work of our staff and everything we're delivering for Bostonians.

So I wanted to start today by talking a little bit about what we're seeing in Boston's real estate market, and on this slide you can see last year's efforts.

We've talked a lot about the slowdown in construction, but I think it's important for us to note that we remain busy at the BPA board approving new development for Boston's future.

Last year alone, we approved 63 new development projects as well as 21 notices of project changes or alterations to existing projects.

All told that includes 3,809 housing units, of which 1,340 will be income restricted.

That's 35% for those doing the math.

These buildings will create over 7,000 new construction jobs when complete and when completed will house 3,500 new permanent jobs on site.

This is 6.3 million square feet of new development in our city and represents a 4.8 billion dollar investment in our city.

If we take last year's work together with all the work since 2023, that means that we have approved nearly 20,000 housing units during the Wu administration, and we're closing in on 50 million square feet of new development approved during the mayor's tenure as well.

One of the major efforts, next slide.

One of the major efforts we've been engaged in under Kairos's leadership is a reenvisioning of our Article 80 process to make it more predictable, effective for both developers and community members alike.

We concluded our study process last year with a report, and we had a set of recommendations, which was validated through neighborhood-based conversations, focus group review with the real estate community, and it was also shepherded by our Article 80 Steering Committee, of which Paros is a member even before he joined us as chief and director.

We are now hard at work on implementing those recommendations.

We realized through this effort that some of the most important work that we could do would come from within City Hall itself and culture changes on our staff and the way we do business.

So we're focused on what our customers need, and those customers are both community members and developers.

We've now standardized our filing process.

We're conducting reviews in a consistent manner.

We're holding ourselves accountable to six-week review internal cycles before we issue feedback, and we're ensuring that City Hall, whenever possible, speaks with one voice when providing feedback to development communities and shepherding community conversation.

On the regulatory side, we've changed the thresholds that go for projects that go to the Boston Civic Design Commission to give large-scale projects the design attention they deserve.

We've made it more clear where Article 80 applies, and we've modernized our communication methods so that official notice comes not just through newspapers, but it still comes through newspapers, but it also comes through email listservs, social media postings and web postings, the place where we know that our community members actually get most of their information today.

So that's Article 80.

Next, I want to turn to our Office RESTI program.

As you know, the post-pandemic changes to office culture and remote work have had a major impact on the way on the office market in Boston.

To respond to this, the mayor directed us to launch a program to make it easy to convert vacant office space to much needed housing.

To do this, we're providing a streamlined permitting path and financial incentives in the form of 29-year tax agreement.

When we launched this program about two years ago, we thought we'd be successful if we found five buildings to convert, and I'm excited to be here to report that we're exceeding those expectations.

On this map on this slide, are as a map of the 24 projects that represent 29 buildings that are in the program.

This includes 1,000, this when built, this will include 1,730 new units of housing, including 326 affordable units.

We're still taking in applications.

I think we're on on uh we would not be surprised at this point if the program exceeded 2,000 units in the near future.

This work is providing not only much-needed housing downtown, it's also generating vibrancy and economic activation that is key to downtown's future.

Another effort we undertook to respond to the downturn in the real estate market was is the and accelerate housing construction, is the appropriately named housing accelerator fund.

With the leadership of this council, we set aside $110 million dollars for equity investment directly in housing creation projects.

As you probably remember, this is not subsidy nor is it debt.

This is the city investing to become an owner in housing creation projects at a lower cost of capital than private owners in order to get projects into construction more quickly.

We've set aside 50 million for private market rental projects in this program.

We're working very closely with our colleagues at Mass Housing to determine the best investments in our city, and we're eager to have some announcements later this summer as to where that funding is going to be deployed.

On the next slide, turning the real estate team.

So while everything I've spoken about so far have been our efforts in the private real estate market, it's important to note that we, as Kairos mentioned, are in a unique position to also use our public real estate to deliver public good for Bostonians.

Our real estate team is working communities every day to deploy both the cities and the BPDA's real estate portfolio to advance community development.

This includes everything from us starting construction last year on redeveloping and underutilized parking lot in Chinatown into the new Chinatown branch library and hundreds of new affordable units in partnership with Asian C DC to our efforts in the Flynn Marine Park to advance the growth of Boston's critically important maritime, life science, and advanced robotics industries.

This year we will start construction on NUBA residents in Nubian Square, taking the long vacant state-owned parcels along Harrison Avenue and Melina Cass and turning them into 114 affordable units, which are both a mixture of rental and homeownership.

Also in Roxbury, we will break ground on the Garrison Trotter phase four development, a long-awaited opportunity to develop housing on city-owned vacant lots that will all be homeownership, 16 of which will be income restricted and seven will be market rate new homes.

This type of infield development in partnership with the Mayor's Office of Housing on Publicly Owned Vacant Land in our neighborhoods will continue with the launch of Welcome Home Boston Phase Three, which will include 11 sites spread across Roslendale, Hyde Park, Dorchester, and Roxbury.

Another focus of our real estate team is to use our tools and expertise to build the infrastructure that Boston needs to mitigate and protect itself from climate change.

In partnership with the Environment and Open Space Cabinet, the coastal resilience delivery team is not just planning for the future of sea level rise, we're also assembling the funds and performing the construction to protect our city from coastal flooding.

Right now we have two projects in construction for deployable seawalls that will close two critical flood paths.

One is in Martin's Park in the seaport, and the other is in the near the Shraft Center in Charlestown.

When these are completed this summer, they will immediately protect hundreds of homes and many hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars, of worth of real estate from storm surge flooding.

Meanwhile, we're also doing the planning and assembling the rights of way to close flood paths in the inner harbor and working closely with the Armored Army Corps of Engineers to assemble what will likely be more than a billion dollars worth of federal funds over the next several decades to protect our city from the sea level rise we anticipate occurring by 2070.

And finally, I want to close by referencing the work of our planning coordination team.

Since becoming the city's new planning department, one of our core areas of focus has been to coordinate our work across all teams within City Hall involved with planning for the built environment.

One of the recent successes has been crafting, authoring, and implementing Boston's first anti-displacement plan.

That plan highlights the city's efforts to ensure that as we grow as a city, we do so in a way that is inclusive to those who are already living here and protects vulnerable residents, businesses, and artists from displacement.

As suggested by the plan, we launched a direct disclosure, direct displacement disclosure in new development projects this year for every project going through the Article Lady process, and we're using that information to guide both outreach and resource investment.

The planning coordination team is also working very closely with the mayor's office on implementing plan downtown, and they've also launched several new efforts to share with residents where investments in planning are being made in their neighborhoods.

Bottom line, we know that residents expect results from the hard work of community planning, so coordinating that work and sharing the story of how plans are being implemented in communities is the focus of that team.

So, with that, I will turn it over to Teresa, who has a slide on our finances.

Good morning, Counselors.

The planning department budget this year is proposed at 29.4 million dollars.

It's slightly lower from last year.

The personnel line reflects salary increases and salary savings from slower hiring.

The contractual line spend has been decreased based on variances we have seen in FY26.

The current charges category, which includes software and professional development, have also been reduced due to budget variances, and the equipment line has been reduced due to purchases made in FY26 and purchases that are no longer needed.

And that is our budget.

Okay, thank you very much.

I'll get the order right on the thing.

Councillor Peppin, uh Madam President Braden, uh I have received questions from uh Councillor Coletta Zapata, which I will be reading as special dispensation for people who are a week overdue past the past their due date.

Um, so uh yeah, so the order is Councillor Flynn, Councillor Fitzgerald, Councillor Durkin, Councillor Murphy, Counselor Culpepper, Councillor Pepin, Councillor Braden, and then Councillor Coletta Zapata, and then me.

So Councillor Flynn, uh, you have six minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

And before I begin, I do want to acknowledge um Ted Landsmark who provided exceptional leadership to the city of Boston.

I've known Ted Landsmark for 40 years, and he was he is an outstanding gentleman dedicated to um building a stronger Boston.

So I want to say congratulations to my friend Ted Landsmark.

The first time I ever went to the Museum of Fine Arts when I was 19 or 20 years old.

Ted Landsmark took me and um he showed me all the paintings and the um in the artwork was was a wonderful experience.

Let me let me continue.

Um, Chief, one of the challenges of building housing in Boston certainly is some of the regulations we have put in place, whether it's IDP, whether it's Berdo.

Um I do think, Chief, that the uh rent control ballot initiative is having a negative impact on people that want to invest in money.

That's what I'm hearing directly from from people.

I'm sure I'm sure you're hearing that as well.

But on the IDP units themselves, 20%, but is it also you're willing to work with people developers, even if they're not able to reach that IDP number, such as a recent um a recent case, maybe in Jamaica Plain, I think it was.

But is that accurate that there are exceptions to the IDP rule?

Um, the mayor has made it very clear that she is interested to learn about the challenges that many of these housing developers are facing today, and that she has asked us to be as open-minded and as flexible in working with these uh developers to get these projects into the ground.

The way that we have been collaborating with the mayor's office of housing and Sheila Dillon, Chief Tillon, has been looking at the challenges of these projects in the way that they uh they have proposed previously when the project was first uh approved, the IDP arrangement.

Um, the regulations actually give the city some flexibility in terms of other pathways that the developer and proponent can actually meet the requirement.

So there is um just a list of few options.

How much of the inclusion we are for the um income restricted units can be on site, or how much of it will be on site, how much um of it uh can be uh turned into a monetary payment, and even to some degrees, in some cases, the schedule of payment.

So we have a lot of flexibility that we are using.

What we're not at the moment doing is actually changing the actual, we're not creating new options as of yet, but this is something that we may be studying further.

Okay.

Thank you, Chief.

I think that's the right approach.

I think we have to consider building housing, and if IDP percentage is too high, I think we do have to work with developers to reduce it.

I did propose that at the city council in the interest of building more housing, especially affordable housing.

I also think the Birdo regulations are challenging for a lot of developers as well.

My final question, Chief, and I know you follow this very closely, but potential potential people, investors, I should say, that want to invest in Boston have said to me that they are reluctant to invest in here because of the rent control ballot initiative and in Boston's support of that.

Have you heard that as well?

And is is are they our developers or financial people telling you that they are concerned about that?

I have heard concerns, but I've also talked to developers that are actually saying, look, the market, while it's not at, you know, uh at its peak, certainly, it's it's it has headwinds, that they are planning to continue to use this time to plan for new development.

Um so the long-term outlook uh remains strong.

So they see this for the for the developers who have been in Boston and have gone through economic cycles, they say, you know, this is still Boston, the fundamentals are strong, and what I do here, the investors are the ones that are investors, and I'll make a distinction between investors as opposed to developers.

And there's a distinction in my view, listening to the kind of feedback that I've gotten.

Um many of the developers are invested in doing the hard work behind the scenes to talk to people about the consequences of a rent control ballot measure if it is passed as currently conceived, and others are simply saying, well, you know, we're not gonna even engage in that.

And I think that there's a distinction uh between the kinds of people that look at Boston, one as just a vehicle for investment, and others that look at it as home.

Uh, and I think that there's a distinction there.

Thank you, Chief.

Um, thank you, Councillor Flynn.

Sorry, we're trying to try to uh keep things a little tighter uh as we we have increased uh tenants.

We'll definitely come back for a second round.

Thank you.

Councillor Fitzgerald.

Thank you, Chair, and good morning, everybody.

Nice to see you all today.

Um I typically start off every one of these hearings this year of saying, okay, everyone's got everyone took a hit, every department's taking a hit.

Uh you have it laid out exactly, looks like it's a half a million dollars pretty much as the total hit from 299 to 294.

Um, I usually ask where where are you seeing that hit reflected and like in what services I know there's a big drop off in equipment and seems a big drop-off in in supply and materials uh and contractual service, which I know we've lost some um we've lost some labor in the last year or two, and so contracts are going up.

Um but seeing that drop-up, where do you got where you guys feeling the pain of that half a million?

I think the what we did was that we um aligned ourselves with the charge that the mayor set us, which is to reduce uh our budget by two percent in terms of the contractual services.

So that's where we have applied our our uh reductions.

I think that we our main goal was to protect our um our our workforce because planning is a very heavily dependent on the on the planners and the work that we do with the community.

We felt like that that, given the constraints that this is an area that we want to maintain our level of service, um, but rely less on the kinds of contractual services, especially related to contractual services related to planning expertise and and design expertise.

Understood, thank you.

Um I think of that in a way of where the 500,000 to the number that you guys have around 29, like the 2%, is it 2% just in contractual services that we say?

Across the board, right?

Yeah.

Um there are many other departments that have come in that are taking a lot bigger of a whack than that, right?

27% in the arts and other things like that.

Um seeing as we are the growth department, right, that spurs this growth, and and some of the reason that we find ourselves in this jam right now is because new growth is stalled.

Um I just look at the number and say, well, for the department that's in charge of it, it's not you guys don't have to have as bad of a cut, and I was wondering if there's a way with some of the other departments that are really feeling the strain uh of their cuts of how we could divert, because I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't seem like there's not a ton going on right now, no one's gonna dispute that.

So, how does that affect the internal workings of when and I understand your your argument about well we're focused on planning now in the future?

Um, but I just didn't know if there were other cuts that could be made to the budget of the BRA that could almost help out one of the other departments that could be hurting.

How could you guys support one of the more hurting departments where we're really looking to put like why are we cutting youth year-round jobs when if we're not having growth from our growth agency and they're only getting you know 500,000 cut or two percent overall, I just seem to me it's um it just looks like an opportunity where this agency's always in a good fiscal standing for the most part.

Um, and when others aren't now, how can we sort of help them out?

And I know historically we have.

I think the structure of our finance and that um is established through the creation of the planning department, um, does not allow for what you are suggesting.

But I would say that if you look at the portfolio of work um that we do and partner with our various um departments, sister departments within city, we are supporting a lot of the efforts.

Uh anything that's related to the built environment, um, we are part of, and to the extent that we are taking on some of the kind of um work that other departments um are doing and and and actually providing funding we have where appropriate.

Um I I do want to just say that you are absolutely right that we are the growth department, and and I think that like good farmers um that is um taking care of um future growth, we have to keep planting, and that effort continues.

And and as I said in my first statement, my my opening statement, that we are embarking on a very ambitious transformation of culture, and that culture is to actually make the process of planning much more transparent and open and put planning first.

And and so the efforts that you would see with our our while there has been some reduction of traffic in terms of development review, the work that we are doing in planning, if anything, has ramped up.

And I would just point to uh the very ambitious needs assessment, which is something that the city has never done.

Um, this is the uh our version of what would constitute comprehensive planning in other cities, and then the second thing, which is the kind of um district-wide, neighborhood wide planning um that is uh being we're doing in Austin Brighton, and part of it is learning from the work that we've done under the mayor's first term, which is to try to be more expedient and and and quicker with the uh squares and streets, but now we're returning to something more comprehensive.

I apologize for cutting only because I want to get one more question in before my time is up.

But I will just note that if we are not set up to help out other city departments, like I asked, then the reason for bringing the BRA under the city and making it a planning department, it doesn't really fall into suit as a city department, I would think in that fiscal structure.

You said it's not set up to do that.

So again, it's just my criticism on that.

My final question, sir.

Hurry.

Yes, thank you.

Is I see in the residential neighborhoods uh that uh we're sort of in the right, I I call them like the family residential neighborhoods.

They're sort of being dumped on where people are taking down a one family and saying I need to put five, six, seven, eight townhouses, some are more egregious up to twenty-six units, uh, changing the character of the neighborhood now directly in on back on myself of my previous comment.

Understanding growth needs to happen.

It seems that the growth that's happening now is changing characters of existing neighborhoods where families would stay by saying we're taking down a one or two family and making a multi-unit residential.

How do we sort of restrict that?

What is the balance there?

Because I feel like that's the only development happening, and that's the development where everyone says, if this happens, this isn't the neighborhood that I want to be in anymore, and we're leaving and we're gonna leave the city, which is obviously something we're trying to keep at bay.

So, like that juxtaposition of keeping growth occurring in the areas where it needs to occur, and not because the ZBA is approving everything right now, right?

And you can you can throw the kitchen sink and it'll say they'll just yep, approved.

And so that's the fee that's the fear that we have uh in the residents when I got a house with a side yard next to it.

Um, is that as a neighbor?

Is that person gonna propose 18 units on that?

When and and am I gonna raise my kids next to that building?

I'm gonna take off, right?

So I don't know, that growth versus where the meeting for growth versus where it's occurring today, I think is sort of a mid-term, not short, not long, but a midterm thing we have to really solve before we scare uh more folks out of the city.

Do you more of a different thing?

I didn't hear a question, so uh if you if you have any response.

I think that we're doing a lot of work in the neighborhood to address the kinds of concerns that you've raised, which is that we understand that there's both the uh understanding uh of the collective need to actually address the affordability and and by adding uh new supply of housing.

We also see the anxiety that is caused by you know smaller parcels being redeveloped.

Um we're trying to find the balance there on the neighborhood uh zoning reform that I'm talking about that have received um very good reviews in the in the spirit of what it's trying to accomplish.

But I think that I would say that on the balance, what I think my staff and I have felt is that what makes our city what it is and our neighborhoods what it is is primarily because of the people there, and what people are most anxious about are people who live there today not being able to stay, and less on the physical character that, oh, this is a new kind of type of housing that is occurring next to me.

And that's exactly the kind of work that we need to do, which is to find the kind of balance in our work in the neighborhoods to say, look, in the end, is it more important that you live to next to the two-story house that's always been there, or to have your your family or children to be able to actually afford being within walking distance of where you live today.

And these are the kinds of questions that I think that we are committed to having with our residents.

Um we believe that's why the quality of design, the quality of the conversations that we have with our neighbors and our friends and and developers have to get beyond like we don't know what this is about, we're afraid of it, to we understand why this is makes sense, and hey, this is actually a well-designed thing that we can become the new fabric, or as the way that the physical transformation occurs in our neighborhoods, that it is something that we are all invested in and that we're all part of.

Thank you.

Chair, I appreciate you recognizing my passion and history with this department and give me extra time.

Yes, your your history with the department certainly I think we we all want to hear what you think, and uh, thanks for for being here, Vishnu.

Okay, so Councillor Durkin, you're you're up.

Thank you so much, Chair.

Um, well, first I'd like to start with gratitude for this department.

Um it's not easy work, and I appreciate all the work that is put in every day.

But I do believe, uh, Director Shen, you're gonna get it from all sides today because I think that uh this department's success has more of an impact on the success of our city and our city budget than any department, and other cities have moved to eliminate parking minimums, um, they've moved to eliminate single family zoning, AK legalize apartments.

Uh, they've moved uh to remove restrictive barriers to uh to building housing.

Um, and I just sort of want to get at the question.

Do you I mean, we're in this budget process where um growth has been slowed, and not for all reasons to do with the city.

I mean, they're you know, national and international factors at play, but we do have a role to play in terms of our zoning, in terms of our regulatory requirements to create an environment uh for growth in the city.

Um, and so I want to ask the question of do you feel the weight of this budget?

Do you feel the weight of decisions that are needing to be made?

Um, because I think it's a really important question.

Oh, absolutely.

Um, you should know that um we would the mayor just had the um but uh the uh announcement on our credit rating for the city.

Um you should know that we our department has been or was part of the briefing and support of the finance department and and the administration in making a strong case of why the city is still in good strong long-term economic health, and and um there was a lot of scrutiny on our project pipeline, our practices, and so yes, we feel the weight.

Um, and it's it's it's um it's our responsibility.

There, and I'm not suggesting we are there yet, but there have been criticisms of specifically the stretch code requirement, um, and sort of how hard it is for engineers to figure out how to engineer a building, um, given the requirements that are required.

I'm sorry, counselor, I have not heard that it's an engineering challenge.

Um, the stretch code and the standards it's set established is well within the I would now call standard practice as opposed to even elevated practice.

So it's not a question about engineering or the know-how.

This is something that our engineering community, our development community knows how to do.

Um, I think that the challenges are more about whether the investment level that's in now needed because of the let's just say not as highly developed supply chain and uh options in um the market that has made some of this uh investment perhaps a little bit more requiring more upfront costs.

So the challenge is how these developers actually um you know um accommodate that within their performer.

So I've already mentioned earlier in our testimony that there is difference between developers who are holding their property and investing in the long term in our city, and that outlook is different from developers or uh investors that are interested in coming into our market, taking advantage of our our community's strong real estate market and demand, and then are looking to exit.

So, you know, I I think that by the way, this change of of um our market accommodating more investment has been within the last three decades since the you know the the increased level of investment and seeing real estate and housing in particular as an investment vehicle, uh as opposed to what it always has been, which is an important physical asset that the city needs in order to actually have the kind of community that we have.

And I guess how dedicated are we to solving the challenge of housing right now and solving the challenge of development and growth right now.

And I guess I'm just curious sort of what creative measures we're using, whether it be like 121A agreements or and obviously that's a tough time because obviously we need tax dollars, but it's like how do we get something off of the ground?

So I think what the as I said, the mayor has instructed us, uh not just us but other departments that are uh have uh have uh have regulations related to building and physical growth to be as flexible and open minded as possible.

But I would say again, the focus has always been on the long term.

I know that there have been people asking for us to lower our standards, but I think that if you recognize that the long-term challenges are ones that are going to be here long term and our decisions today impact the future, we have to, if we are going to invest, and the city is going to create incentives and be co-investors like the accelerator fund, we should be investing in the things that we that have performance levels that are needed for the future.

I'm running out of time, but Director Shine, I know you can answer this really quickly.

How do you feel about eliminating parking minimum citywide?

I think ultimately it is a it's something that we will arrive at, but we will do it with the community with us.

Uh and as I said, that knowledge and buy-in and being part of the decision making, as opposed to this being done by so-called experts, not engage in the daily lives of people living in these countries, obviously, is important.

We differ on this.

I mean, I think we differ on this most well, like give me a little bit of leeway.

Um we differ on this because I really do believe that the mountain of challenge that we have here in terms of development and the mountain of data and information we have, and I know that more than half of your staff agree with me, so I'll I'll be talking to them.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much.

Counselor Murphy.

Thank you for being here.

Um, a few things um first.

I'll just start off.

I've gotten a few emails, so I'm gonna read two questions and a couple of things you had brought up with previous questions, so it ties in.

Um these came from some D5, so um residents asked um this feeling that they weren't involved in the process updating Article 80, and I know we've had several hearings and meetings and conversations about this, so just sharing what they would like to like get a clearer answer on, which took away abutter's rights to have a say in as of right development.

They believe this is not fair and could harm abutters and people from protected groups who do not have a say in what is built near them.

Will you please help us put a butter's rights comments back into the revised Article 80 process?

And then another question specific to squares and streets.

Um, at least three immigrant-owned businesses have been indirectly displaced since Rosendale adopted the Article 26 squares and street zoning.

What financial and relocation support does the administration offer?

And I know when we spoke with like the Office of Economic Development, but I kind of feel like it ties in, like you said, many of your decisions are directly connected to other departments.

So those are just two, and then I have a couple of my own that I'd like to just talk about.

I would say that we do from time to time have folks who have raised concerns about our process.

And I would say that one of the most important things that we are invested in is to make sure that we broaden the conversation and include people who um not only are not currently in our processes, but um for those who already know our processes to do it better and make sure that they feel it's a good use of their time.

I would say that the your first comment about abutters rights and what we have done, or the uh or the assertion that this about us rights are being uh removed from the Article 80 um modernization process.

I would say that I don't agree with that.

That's not in the substance of our approval of the changes that we've made.

If anything, we have um made more robust recommendations on how to make sure that as we modernize the Article AD and zoning, that we are involving more people than ever before.

Um I I think that you heard me in my previous answer to Councillor Durkin, that we are committed to making sure that even when there is the notion that regulations that are best practices, I'm much more concerned about the practice we develop and that we can adopt with our residents, not um, you know, like good medicine, force it down the people's throats.

Could I use an example then of it happens often, but recently there it wasn't an Article AD project, but came before the zoning board of appeals and two elected officials, 56 like real strong letters, not just copy and paste letters of opposition, and all voting members of the local civic association were very against a project and it got passed.

And so, and I hear that often, like what were they thinking that all of us weren't?

So it seems you know, there's just a small group who are very like on a very different side than everybody else.

I would have to take a look at the specific case because I mean I I think that if I were to make a blanket statement on one project, it would violate the principle I just sort of espoused that we as a department should be following, which is that we as we uh regularize and actually modernize our zoning, that while that makes it more efficient, it's not our intention to not be hands-on and be engaged in the specific conversations around projects.

I do know that you know, one of the goals that we have been embarking on, and one of the statistics I shared already is how much uh new zoning reduced the number of cases that go to Board of Appeal, so that we are trying to uh take the kinds of conversation that people want to have without sort of the um being so sometimes so charged in one project, that these are bigger decisions that are not related to single projects overall and and yeah, and look at how, and this is where the part of what I mentioned earlier on the notion of responsibility that each neighborhood, each particular street, you know, the capacity for growth and change is different from street to street based on its history, and we should acknowledge that and and do it appropriately, where areas that have more lots that we try to direct the growth there where possible and agree to it beforehand and then let the development community do its job.

Could I gonna ask ADU question?

Yes, so support of them and know also it's a very small spot like Plan Matapan and the within that line, but are you supporting proposals that technically wouldn't be called an ADU if it's not inside like the ADU zone, but where the plan also would not require any, you know, setbacks or zoning restrictions.

If homeowners can you know propose a project and it's to, you know, help with all the concerns you're having, like displacement, maybe family members moving in, allowing more, you know, children to stay maybe with their next generation.

How is how are you shifting like that support, knowing that you know we haven't had the bigger conversation of expanding what we'd consider like an ADU unit?

So this is the work that I mentioned earlier on, and some of the most important thing that we're doing is reforming the neighborhood housing regulations.

Um I think 80 plus percent of the underlying zoning in our neighborhoods is would make what exists today, the built buildings, um non-conforming.

So if you wanted to add a bathroom, you can't.

You'd have to go through a nine-month or twelve-month board of appeal process, and your neighbors from that you may not even know cared, would come and tell you what you know, and participate in that process.

So what we're doing is trying to be really systematic in showing people what exists today, what their neighborhood is, the character that uh counselor Fitzgerald talked about, recognize that that's the character, and what is the appropriate zoning that would allow what exists today to be replicated on other sites that are still available, and then look at the kinds of changes that we would adopt that would allow not just ADUs that are within certain parameters, but allow simple reinvestment in our in our existing stock.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Councillor Murphy.

Okay, uh Councillor Culpepper and then Councillor Phi Penn.

Thank you, Counselor Weber, and thank you, Kyle, Devin and Teresa.

Good to see you again.

Uh I want to focus a little bit on the issue of displacement.

I think you may have mentioned that Cairos.

And with regard to the displacement, and I think there's been mention of the city's anti-displacement action plan.

Um what what are those tools consist of and how are they working for instance in Roxbury?

So we understand that with a lot of this work and with in with growth, there's necessarily the investment from sources that are not just local but beyond, um, and that some of these sources are not as familiar with the existing businesses and the kind of um tradition and history within each of these neighborhoods.

So we did adopt an anti-displacement plan that actually puts the onus on um the proponent of projects so that very earlier on in their in any kind of thinking about um redeveloping uh uh properties, that they actually make a disclosure to us on the kinds of tenants that they both commercial and residential tenants in the in the sites that they're looking at, and then that anti-displacement plan outlines all of the existing regulations as well as the um uh programs that the city has and the state has to actually address any potential displacement.

So I think having the knowledge of that is first and foremost the most critical thing that we can do, and then we coordinate with all of our other departments um that have a role in helping uh the developers in particular that we focus on, and then other departments that uh help focus on the potential displaced uh residents or businesses uh to make sure that there is as little surprise as possible.

So, with regard to businesses that you just mentioned, how are they protected when the disclosure is made?

You see what I mean?

We put them in that we put them in a room that they otherwise would not be required, that developers would not be required to.

So, to the extent that as soon as we are of their uh are informed that there is development interests, we make it very clear to them that we are not going to continue to have conversations about their development proposal unless they are they know and that they actually go through in informing the people who actually live and work uh that will be impacted.

And but how are they protected, if at all?

So we the displacement plan um outlines all of the laws and programs that are applicable to the, and then because the tech the tenants and the impacted parties would would also be aware of it they can also then take initiative to make sure and and in our in our case our staff will take the initiative maybe you want to and have then jump in so the Caris's point this is more about uh the the the plan is about daylighting issues well when we have the opportunity to intervene it's neither developers interest nor the business interests and the city's interest for these issues to come up at the very end and be derailing to a process and most developers I think we give credit to good work want to work with uh the people who uh the businesses or the residents that are on their site it's those actors that don't where this is helping us ensure that a um if if they're if a if a resident is being displaced they're getting access to legal services they're informed they know what's happening and there was plenty plenty of time in the early days to get that um uh that information to them uh for in the case of a business it's oftentimes the the negotiation of relocation or the right to return to the site and there there are plenty of examples where this is already working successfully but we what we we can't manage what we don't know about so the the effort is really about disclosure so and and I want to pick this up a little bit later especially when it comes to places like uh black market that's really struggling but let's pick that up later I wanted to talk a little bit about newbie and square because Devin I think you talked about what you then over the next year and uh with regard to Nubian Square uh what should we really expect in terms of physical change?

Well I what's exciting is that there actually will be significant physical change this year and it's building on top of um some significant changes take out jazz urban yeah jazz are bang gonna open but but on it but you know how long that the along Harrison Avenue and Melanie Cass there's been that dilapidated state owned property that with the awful chain link fence we've gone through a many year process that included state special legislation to be able to turn that into affordable housing and we're now you'll be there with us do uh doing the groundbreaking this summer to create a hundred and fourteen new units of affordable housing including market home ownership and rental so that that is the type that that that doesn't happen overnight it takes years of effort but we're gonna see that go into construction this this summer I won't come back to that in my second round of questions but I did want to ask you of the 7,078 construction jobs how much of that is that the 13% of the 232 point five million the the construction jobs are associated with the the square footage of new construction so the six point six point three million square feet of new construction that's the estimate of how many construction workers it will take to build that and when you break that down Devin how many what percentage of that meets an MBWE requirement of the 7,000 construction job and of the 3,000 permanent jobs well those those jobs are not they haven't until they start construction they don't exist today but we have the Boston residence jobs policy which requires local hiring and um women in minority hiring and compliance against that so as those construction will have the information be able to right button I'm just responding to just a rapid well I can do it in my you know I'm learning I'm learning this I can do it in my next set of questions.

You can you can you can you can gather yourself you might be I'll do it I'll do it in my next set of questions.

Okay thank you very much Council and Councilor Papin.

Thank you Mr Chair and good morning to the planet department I feel very lucky that I've gotten to work very closely with your department since getting into office obviously with squares and streets starting in my district, being able to work closely with a lot of your staff members and on and also being able to learn a lot about the process that it takes to rezone a neighborhood, it takes to come up with new plans.

So just thank you for for dealing with me as well during all those questions and community meetings.

I wanted to just give a quick shout out to your and to your staff, but especially to um someone like Caitlin Coppinger, who I sometimes go up to her office and use it as a therapy office.

You're not the only one.

So shout out to her.

Um wanted to wanted to ask you all about a few things, but mostly some of my, I think Councillor Cole Pepper brought it up already, displacement.

Um for me, that's always been the number one question.

I you know, Rosie Square, Cleary Square, Madapan Square, huge business hubs.

Um in Cleary Square right now, one of the toughest situations is you know, hearing the stories from the business owners like Las Delicias, Colombianas and others that just say, hey, what's what's next for us?

So I I know that we came up with anti-displacement action plan, which was I believe one of the first of its kind in the nation, but wanted to see are there any specific protections in place that you're all leading with when you're having these conversations?

Um also with developers having the conversation of like, hey, once the building is is built, do they have the right to come back or give them a space?

What type of negotiations happen when it comes to those?

So I think Devin already mentioned that in many of these cases that as soon as the developer discloses the kinds of development that they want to um advance, that we get them to engage with the existing tenants and making sure that there are provisions that could be incorporated very earlier on in the planning process.

I think the I mean, fundamentally, this is ultimately a question about uh resources, and and you know, so the debate about sort of you know how big the project can be, you know, we get a lot of comments about you know making sure this project is appropriate to the, or at least the language is appropriate to the local character.

But what happens is that if you want to accommodate the kinds of public benefits, and I would include um making sure that the right kind of tenancy can continue, that's a public benefit that needs to be incorporated into the profoma of the project.

So when you get, you know, when we are debating about how tall or whether what this extra story does, I think to a building that might already be five stories or six stories, the benefits can be tangible.

Meaning, hey, you know what, if you start thinking about that as being having the kind of daycare that really focus on local people and have pricing that is accessible to local folks, that extra story may be what allows that to happen.

Same as businesses that have been longstanding.

So I think this is the kind of conversation we are having in the planning academy, which is to say, hey, don't look at it one thing, which is density or height, as just how it's something unfamiliar and that will change the character of the neighborhood.

But think about the benefits that those that extra density can bring.

So it's a tough it's a tough question.

And just one quick point to tie these two conversations together.

Um Massachusetts has the benefit of being one of the strongest states for residential tenant protections, but you can only access those protections if you're aware of them.

So the displacement disclosure is really about making sure that the residents that are in those places have access to those protections, and any good developer wants uh uh residents to be able to access their legal rights.

Also, this conversation about commercial displacement is much more complicated, and it's make and it's bringing it to the forefront so we can do the type of negotiation that Karis is talking about.

And I appreciate that.

Just it's always that number one thing that comes up to the conversations when we're in you know Cleary Square in High Park having meetings with business owners, and it leads me to my second question, which is gonna more than just a space but other things.

Does your does your office partner with other departments like the Office of Small Businesses to come up with solutions?

And um, and then I'm gonna ask something regarding transportation.

Um I know that planning goes hand in hand with transportation.

I'm seeing questions right now where in Rosie Square, um, we pass squares and streets, and there's a building there that they're still going through the funding rounds, the Bene Brith building.

Well, in the community meetings, what we're actually getting questions about now is transportation layout and how it's gonna impact the abutting streets and the pick up drop-off zones and like Colassi Street, which is where I live.

Questions about where a car is going to exit.

But the developers, Bonnie Breth, and the representatives don't they don't really have the right answers just because they're not the right people to answer these questions.

So I want to know to what extent does the planning department work with the transportation department to bring up these answers.

So it's a simple answer, which is yes, we are working very closely with our colleagues on every aspect of implementation.

And I would say that in this last year, we have beyond after the project gets approved by the BPDA board, which is for its zoning.

We are now getting directly involved in continuing to coordinate the actual implementation of this of these projects.

So making sure that conversations at the planning stage is carried over until the implement throughout the implementation.

And we know that I meet with uh Chief Gove regularly to talk about not only long-term planning but short-term sort of day-to-day implementation.

Um I think that there's no question that this comes back to again the sort of responsibility, right?

Which is that there are some things that are truly the responsibility of uh us, the city to implement, and that to the extent that we have leveraged a lot of the private developers to actually help us coordinate that and provide the private element to reduce our costs and scope.

We are constantly working on that.

Um, but we are at a moment in the market cycle where we've also had to be much more flexible working with the private sector and developers because we want the project and we're trying to um delay where appropriate and decouple in some other cases benefits that go beyond the scope of the immediate project to try to get the the actual project going.

So lots of things that we're trying to resolve, and we're working very closely with our sister departments to try to come to a good compromise.

Thank you.

Um thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, thank you very much, uh Madam President.

Lights action.

Good morning, everyone.

Good to see you.

Um a few questions.

Um the planning department is currently in the process of conducting the Alston Brighton Community Plan.

Um, as you're aware, I'm a strong supporter of this um process and excited to see the results.

It's one of the things we asked for when I came into office was a district-wide community uh plan for Alston Brighton.

Um, do we on do we have uh an anticipated total cost for the planning process?

And how much did Harvard put in the kitty to fund to fund the towards the cost and how much was paid by the city?

And do not have it at hand, Councillor President Breden, but we can get that for you for sure.

Excellent.

And do we have an anticipated um uh completion date?

Like I know we've been added now for as soon as possible.

As soon as possible.

Well, but Councillor Braden, I think you know the how important it is to make sure that we talk to the uh the residents and the people who participate in our process.

So to the extent that I'm actually uh getting regular updates on a weekly basis, and then you and I meeting bi weekly.

So uh it has um the front office is attention, full attention, and I would go as fast as the process allows us to go.

That you know, without violating one of the principles that I've already shared, which is that we we don't want planning done to people, we want to do planning with our residents.

Yes, yeah.

I have to say I have to give kudos to the the team that are working, they've conducted some really robust community meetings.

Um doesn't the style of it doesn't always sort of different different demographics, but you know I think on you know we have a hundred people turn up to produce plans and talk about the neighborhoods, that's good.

Um the planning advisory council plays an important role in ensuring that planning processes in Boston are coordinated across cabinets.

Uh in financial year budget, the planning advisory council budget has been cut by 38%.

Uh and I was wondering um why is the planning advisory council now referred to as the planning coordination program in the budget book, and how will the planning department continue to ensure that we're coordinating with other other cabinets across the the city enterprise?

So we are looking at modifying uh the scope and um the sort of the conception of the planning advisory council.

This was something that was done very earlier on as you know, even before the transition to the planning department.

And I think the mayor saw this the planning advisory council as a critical step towards getting to where we actually can create a new planning department.

And now that the planning department we're in our third year, um I feel I feel strongly that rather than as a separate council, that it should be integrated much more directly into the work and of the department and think about it as plan implementation.

Uh now, will there be a convening, you know, continue to have a convening function?

Probably yes.

Um, but this is something that we're working on.

Um the second thing is that there has not been a cut of budget of the panning advisory council staff.

What had that has been moved to within, we have absorbed that in our budget and taking that piece that was separate and funded by the city through capital budget, uh not capital budget, but from the operating budget now to actually part of the budget that we will be paying for out at the BPDA.

And and Teresa, you can say some of the specifics.

Sure.

The the personnel that have been moved from the PAC line now are found in the planning department personnel line.

Okay, very good.

Um and then um with the new planning coordination program, um, how can community members and counselors be better better informed about about their operations and are meetings open to the public and um are the minutes available?

This is a really good question.

I don't I'm um I'm not aware of meetings that are being held by the planning advisory council that is separate from the the course of work in the department.

Um I mostly see it first and foremost as an internal coordination within the city department, making sure that the and some of the work that has been accomplished, which is tracking all of the capital projects and planning progress.

That work should and will continue.

Yeah, I think the question about sort of like having it as an as an autonomous um uh body is something that I think we are reviewing right now.

Okay, um, I'm gonna keep going because I've got limited time and um I won't be here for a second round, unfortunately.

Um the director position for the planning and zoning division is currently vacant.

I was wondering how long has it been vacant and do we plan to fill that role?

So that position has been vacant since the since the departure of Amy Chambers.

Um I am looking at an organization structure that may uh may not actually fill that position.

And part of it is to recognize the capacity and the expertise that we already have on staff.

For me, continuing to do the work is as much about not just expertise, but but continuity.

Uh and I have um I have talked to the mayor about sort of some other organizations that will make us more efficient um without um actually replacing positions that were conceived of at a time when we were going through a transition phase.

Okay.

And and then just one quick question the the the Western Ave Transit Way um study, is that where is that at?

Like it seems to have gone quiet.

Uh actually, it's funny that you should mention it.

It's on my agenda for my next meeting with uh Chief Gove.

So I have I have identified the same issue about um where that project is and wanting to make sure that there's better coordination between his staff and our staff on that project.

Excellent.

Thank you so much.

Okay, thank you, Councillor Braden.

Uh, we're gonna go to uh I I have some questions here from uh Councillor Coleta Zapada, so um just pretend you're speaking to her.

Uh okay, so um I'm just gonna give Councillor Coletta's six minutes.

Um for a major public asset like the Charlestown Navy Yard, can you provide an accounting of all revenues generated, specifically ground leases and all expenditures reinvested on site?

How are those dollars aligning with goals for affordability and resilience in Charlestown?

So if I was speaking to Councillor Coletta Zapata, I would remind her that this is frequently asked by her constituents, and we have provided this information in the past.

Um, the the Navy Yard, we do have a significant number of uh BPDA-owned properties or formal BPDA owned properties that receive revenue through sale transfer of properties.

We've reinvest a significant portion of that in the Navy Yard, including the public open spaces within the Navy Yard.

We also use it to help fund our other activities as well if they're a surplus.

But yes, we have been and are routinely happy to provide that information.

Okay, and how does that align with the goals of affordability and resiliency?

So it a significant portion of the of that funding goes to the open space uh associated with the Navy Yard and a significant um project that we've completed recently is the restoration of Pier 4, uh, which is that a where courageous sailing operates out of uh that we put, I think it was up to 10 million dollars in it, right, Teresa, and it was a significant investment in that restoration, and that that's perfect, that will now provide open space and recreational access for Charlestown residents for the foreseeable future.

Okay.

Um has the planning department developed consistent guidance on on when it supports variance requests in East Boston, and how are those decisions communicated to communities uh so they can understand the rationale?

I I think that with the new zoning adopted in East Boston, what we have, we have statistics to show how much how many fewer projects are going through the variance process and the success of the new zoning.

Um I know the counselor has asked several times about us being clear on the guidance aside from you know saying that where new zoning is adopted, we should follow them.

Um so, but as I've said, I think I mentioned already in my previous testimony that there are still um many projects that deserve additional um, you know, uh discretion.

Uh I think the planning department is still set up to make those discretionary decisions and work with the community.

I would say that I'm fully committed to making sure that there are no surprises that we that by the time that we are making the discretion that we're soliciting uh or even before that soliciting community input.

Okay, uh how is the recent net zero carbon zoning initiative helped make help helped us make strides toward the city's carbon neutrality by requiring compliance for projects with 15 units or more?

So we have seen, I think now two new projects approved, two or three new projects that are completely compliant with the net zero carbon requirement.

Um to the extent that we can actually provide some numerical uh analysis, still on a modeling basis, we can provide that answer.

But I think this is uh I think Chief Sweat when I don't know whether he's come to for his hearing.

Um I think that there's no we're coordinating and we are fully committed to making sure that new projects that are going through the process are meeting these new standards because we think it's critical for us to apply these standards if we're gonna meet the carbon uh goals or common emission goals that we've set for ourselves.

Okay, uh Article 80 modernization, uh following the release of the draft recommendations.

How have you reached uh populations that haven't historically been a part of the development review process, particularly the immigrant community uh in East Boston?

We've done a lot of work there.

I think uh what I would like is to provide um uh an actual the number of meetings and the kinds of uh people who have come to those meetings that have been directly uh uh that we've had to accomplish exactly that, which is to reach communities that we typically don't reach, especially immigrant communities.

Okay, I think uh the council would like the data on that.

Yeah, we will we will provide the what information we typically try to track.

I think given within the parameters of some privacy requirement, we try to um when I think we do the surveys and they actually they fill out what they are comfortable to fill out.

Yeah, to the extent we have the data, we're happy to provide it, and it's probably also worth mentioning that uh we have a community engagement team which includes uh staff who we call our community builders, and they're there with staff of three people whose entire effort and entire mission and they come to them to work every day is to help reach new populations, folks that don't typically interact with us, whether that's immigrant populations, uh younger uh members of our community, renters, reaching people where they are is really important to us, and we also have in our uh equity inclusion team a language access coordinator position that is helping us ensure that we're reaching people in their and their uh language spoken at home as well.

Okay.

Uh one last question from this, then I'm gonna steal one of Councillor Coleta Zapata's questions for for uh my time.

But so what's the current status of the citywide needs assessment being conducted by curb strategies?

Um it's going well.

I have uh biweekly updates on the progress of that uh project.

Uh I would say that we have um gone through several milestones.

I'm happy to meet with the counselor to tell to give her an update on where we are in the overall scope of work.

But one of the most critical discussions that we've had is looking at, you know, um a consistent application of our projected growth and the assumptions that we are not only making within the narrow confines of planning, but actually being uh applied to uh the mayor's office of housing and other departments and as as well as the um you know uh uh the capital projects department to make sure that we all know and are consistent in thinking about how the city is changing and growing in our different neighborhoods.

Okay, thank thank you.

Uh okay.

Just taking off my Cleta Zapata hat on and I'm back uh as the as the chair.

I'm gonna give myself six minutes.

Um and this is coming from uh um Coleta Zapata had the same question.

So uh in terms of linkage fees, um, how how much of development proposals from uh the last fiscal year uh you know contributed to linkage fees?

Do we have that broken down by uh neighborhood?

Yeah.

Well, I I think in my presentation, give me a moment if I could hold up and give you the number for the 16 million that 16 million to housing, 1.4 million to jobs training.

Uh we I don't have the number by neighborhood in front of me, but we can absolutely get a breakdown.

But just to be clear, that that number goes to a central fund, and they may be generated in different neighborhoods, but but the one of the key issues of linkage is to actually distribute the benefits of development that might be concentrated in a few areas to throughout so that the city can deploy it throughout the neighborhoods.

Um okay, yeah, I think there's been just so is the I guess I'm asking a clarifying question.

Yeah.

I think we can give both, which is we can tell you what linkage dollars will be coming in based on projects that we've approved in the last year, but the separate thing, which is of the linkage dollar that had been deployed that were already in the uh neighborhood housing trust and neighborhood uh workforce training uh trust.

Where it's where it was disputed.

Those are two different questions.

I I think we'd like the answer to that, uh, and I guess the follow-up would be: you know, I think there's been some discussion on the council about attaching, you know, making linkage fees go to the neighborhood where they're produced.

I I'm a little skeptical of that.

Yeah, I I think that as a policy matter, I'm not sure that that that is that goes counter to the intention of linkage, which was to make sure that development which is occurring in areas which have value, intrinsic value, that that is not sort of like um left in the area that already has development.

It's supposed to go to areas that don't have that kind of that investment.

Yeah I I I yeah I think my concern was yeah if you can make more money in a certain area you're gonna build there and then you yeah you in terms of like the linkage fees going to that same area seems like that's not that's why inclusionary development we we are proponents of on-site delivery and not sort of like letting the buyout to go to other neighborhoods because that's where you want the affordable and income restricted units to be in the neighborhood.

But linkage is the is a different tool and should be deployed differently okay and then just sort of basic mechanics of the the budget of the planning department it it comes it's it's coming from the BPDA I I'm I I apologize for I'm not acting slow on this I'm just actually uh not sure how this works so um so we have a transfer from the BPDA and the last couple years it's I think for fiscal year 27 it's projected like 46 million um so I'm not sure explain how that works where the planning department's budget is 29 million uh you know what what is happening with that extra money like it do I just explain it uh from the beginning if to at a fifth grade level okay so the reason that the transfer is more is because the the city budgets uh benefits both health care pension costs um centrally so they add that amount so you don't in in our 29 million dollar budget it does not include those those centrally budgeted costs so the transfer amount is rep represents both the budget and then pension costs and health insurance costs and any other any other benefit costs okay and the transfer amount gets gets determined right around this time and the board approves the amount it's broken into four payments the first two payments are a quarter of what the transfer amount is the third payment we look to start a true up between what we've actually spent versus what is what is um budgeted and then the same process happens with the fourth payment to ensure that that we are as close as possible to the amount that's transferred to the amount that the department is has spent okay and so is the the is the entire 46 million I because we this is the same amount from for this fiscal year uh are we projecting we're gonna spend that entire 46 million dollar transfer so I think that we are let me just and then what happens if we don't or what happens if we're over I don't know that's uh so last year we weren't over by more than like five hundred thousand and we are we right now have sent twenty five million I believe um and the last two quarterly payments were um smaller as a result okay um and have we in accounted for this we're having a sharp increase in health care costs uh next year and this year was higher how does how did that's represented in that total amount for for the proposed fiscal year okay 27 transfer before the buzzer sounds in terms of the number of positions it's um it's also a little unclear the budget book says 244 positions the um I think the narrative refers to 193 positions um and I'm not sure how that's broken down.

So if I had to guess the 243 include the e the employees who are still employed by the EDIC.

Okay.

And the 190, whatever would be the employees who are employed by the city of Boston.

Okay um that that I think makes sense it so there's not just 40 more vacancies.

These are positions or 50.

I mean, we definitely have vacancies, yes.

Um can you just give me the vacancy data that you have?

And then I don't know if I have the vacancy data.

I may have to get that for you.

Yeah, okay.

I just for my colleagues, what we have is.

I'm gonna have to get that for you.

Okay.

We have it's a it's uh yeah, it's not clear.

It's about um because we had 193 positions in city planning and design, but 244 positions overall, uh, and I think this my staff projected all of those would be vacant, but there are I don't think that's because they're working somewhere else.

Okay.

Um if you look in the budget book for your department, it does list like 244 positions.

I will I will get we'll we'll get back to that.

Okay, we could use uh yeah, just some clarification there.

Okay.

Uh councillor Flynn, second round.

Um we're gonna go with five minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and I I also want to acknowledge.

Sorry, I apologize.

Okay, got that wrong whenever you're ready.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I also want to acknowledge Teresa, your professional work as well.

You've done an outstanding, outstanding job in your in your position.

Um Chief, the answer you gave on eliminating parking requirements, I thought was appropriate.

Um, I think you gave an honest answer about a direct question.

So I would just encourage you to continue providing that type of leadership.

I think it's I think it's important even if people even if colleagues disagree with you.

So I just want to acknowledge your direct answer and honest answer, Chief.

Um, and maybe maybe Devin.

I know you might have been working on this a little longer.

Tell me the status of the um Flynn Marine Park.

How are we doing?

I know we're doing excellent in terms of building um opening soon, an EMS station, um, eventually a fire station.

But either either either or um, uh, yeah, absolutely.

So, counselor, and thank you very much for continuing to be an advocate of the Flynn Marine Parker tenants there.

Thank you very much.

Your staff, thank you very much.

Um things are going well.

Uh I think in terms of uh things to look forward to and and highlight uh the EMS station, I believe it's in construction.

We'll get a uh construction deadline for you.

Um, vertex pharmaceuticals will be occupating their new uh expanded headquarters building at 22 dry dock uh in the coming year, and that's it represents a significant expansion of the active life science space within the marine park, an important revenue generator uh for the city.

Um we I continue to foster a um uh group of smaller um businesses in the uh and 12 channel uh smaller general industrial businesses, including uh all the sub-businesses associated with mass robotics, which is I think a signature tenant there.

Um many of the uh tenants are on very long-term ground leases, so they're protected from fluctuations in the market.

And of course, it's the Flynn Marine Park, so uh ensuring that 66% of the land use is maritime industrial for now and forever, is an important goal, and uh we work very closely with Massport on uh uh using the maritime marine terminal to expand maritime interests, and we're looking at everything from sort of your basic bulk cargo uh uh uses to we uh Caris and I were in a conversation recently within a um submarine robotics manufacturer that was interested in the marine park as well.

So it runs the whole gamut, and we're it's an exceptional and unique space for Boston.

Thank you, Devin.

Um, thank you, Chief.

I I do want to highlight the BPDA team that works in and around that area in Flynn Marine Park.

They're they're excellent, they're professional and they work well together, but they also provide um great leadership in helping um helping the tenants there.

I also want to acknowledge Massport has been a very good and strong partner as well.

And um, they're an important part of of the waterfront.

My my other question is, and I and I follow this closely with Massport, but the tourism from the um cruise industry that they commit to the Flint Cruise Board, but the tourism um really contributes greatly to Boston and Massachusetts economy, and having those tourists come off the the cruise ship and go into a Boston residence, res restaurants or bars or hotels has a big impact.

I've seen the numbers.

Um just wanted to get your thoughts about the the tourism industry from the cruise ships and how important that is to the city.

We don't have the numbers on that that we can share.

Um when we meet with Massport, we do talk about that, and um we are very interested in actually.

I think the focus is actually the pedestrian activity and how to get from the cruise terminal itself to those restaurants and making sure that it's safe.

So I think that many of you know that managing the truck traffic that comes in and out of the marine park with pedestrians that are coming off of these, sometimes they're you know they come in for the day.

So there are challenges that we need to uh deal with, and um, but we're happy that obviously we have a strong cruise uh industry.

Thank you, Chief.

I'm out of um time.

Um I want to be respectful to my colleagues, so thank you to the um BPDA team.

Um thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you very much.

Before we uh move on, I uh we usually call in public testimony uh for the first round.

I I neglect to do that.

We just have one person online.

We're gonna go uh there for I think uh Gregory Maynard.

Hello, uh, my name is Gregory Maynard, and I am the co-founder and executive director of the Boston Policy Institute.

Boston's planning department is a set of half-done reforms.

And it is clear that the excuse me, one second.

Okay, you're kind of freezing.

And now you're silent.

Uh okay.

You want to just take a second there?

Yes, sorry, I'm a technical.

Let me let me start from the top here.

Uh sure, I reset your time.

Fine.

Thank you.

My name is Gregory Maynard, and I am the co-founder and executive director of the Boston Policy Institute, Inc.

The Boston's planning department is a set of half-done reforms.

And it's clear that the lack of follow-through is damaging not only the department but development in Boston and the city's budget.

These half-done reforms fall into two broad categories.

First, the incomplete creation of a new planning department, and second, the failure to make important zoning and process changes.

First, Boston's so-called planning department is nothing of the sort.

Typically, when cities create a new department, there's a study done in order to understand how things work, what needs to change, and how the roles and responsibilities of the new organization will fulfill those needs.

This wasn't done in the case of the planning department.

The BPDA's staff kept the same jobs, the same salaries, even the same offices, and simply started receiving paychecks from the city of Boston instead of BPDA.

That means there has been no effort to change how City Hall plans, for instance, considering whether to bring the mini planning departments in transportation, public works, and parks and rec in-house.

Second, the planning department is failing to accomplish Mayor Who's stated goals on zoning and process.

There are a number of examples from squares and streets to Article 80 reform, but the best example is accessory dwelling units.

Mayor Wu promised in her 2024 state of the city address to allow ADUs to be built as of right citywide.

Now, more than two years later, there is no ETA for accomplishing that goal.

To put that delay in context, the state legislature passed an ADU legalization law that Governor Healy signed in August 2024, regulations were finalized in February 2025, and now ADUs are allowed as of right in every city and town in Massachusetts except Boston.

Boston depends on new growth.

That is real estate development in order to grow its budget.

The lack of new growth is what's causing the record low budget growth in FY26.

It is clear that it cannot achieve the growth it needs, burdened by this set of half-done reforms.

Until City Hall resolves these issues, complaints about external factors hurting new growth should be taken with a grain of salt.

Thank you so much.

Okay, thank you.

We're going back to my colleagues.

Oh, Councillor Fitzgerald, yeah.

So five minutes.

Thank you very much, Chair.

Chief Shen, you know, I have immense respect for you.

And so in this uh, you had a great line in the in the pre my previous question about uh as the growth agency, we are we are the farmers, we need to continue to plant for the future.

Um and so, in my effort to match your metaphorical width, uh, I looked up types of bad soil.

Okay, and there are two that actually do kind of uh correlate pretty well to this, that I just want to be us to be wary of in terms of in the continue plan that our soil doesn't get like this in the city.

Uh, degraded soil, soil that has lost physical, chemical, or biological quality, usually due to mismanagement.

So I have faith that we will not have degraded soil uh in the future, or nutrient-depleted soil, soil that has lost its fertility due to over farming or lack of organic matter.

I saw those two as the type that sort of can relate.

Well, we can continue to plant the seeds, as you said, but if the soil is not the right soil, then it's not gonna matter.

And so uh that is my effort there.

I'll leave that at that, but on top of that.

Can I just say that our hands are always in the dirt?

We could do this all day.

I think we usually phone.

Um, you and I will you and I will go up to straw in our mouth, we'll take a walk through the fields one day.

We'll have this talk.

But I want to get to a um uh another leading to my residential neighborhood and talking about uh neighborhoods bearing the brunt uh of developers potentially making a bad investment.

It's not our fault you overpaid for the land, and now you have to put X amount more units on a site that the community bears the burden of so they can at least break even or make their make their ROI, right?

Um, but a lot of that coming back to when we have when they come to the neighborhoods, now the the shift I've noticed since I was a project manager is that when they come in for a pre-file meeting, uh, when I was there, it typically said the first question we asked was, have you gone out to the community?

And what did they say?

Now it seems the shift to be, or at least this is what we're hearing when the developers come out to the community meetings, is well, we went in for our pre-file meeting, and the planning department helps us come up with our plan prior to coming out to the meeting.

But the problem I see with that is that then if they go out and they face pushback or criticism out in the community, you're going back to the agency that helped them draft the plan with criticism, and they're going, well, that can't be right.

They're wrong.

We helped you draft this.

So they are less inclined to change when it when it is their input from the div from the department side, when it is their input that helps craft that initial uh you know rendering that goes out to the community and criticism is then received.

The department is less likely to change because they are the ones that told them to build it as such.

Uh you know what I mean.

This is news to me because I think that what the culture that I've tried to try to um uh implement is not that we craft the plans for the developers.

In fact, we ask them to come in to see us to make sure that they understand what the existing regulations are that apply to that particular site, and to actually give them initial advice on what we already know because our planners are in the community, what kinds of expectations there is, and then they also we do encourage them to go and talk to community members to understand what, again, from the community members what their expectations are.

What I've tried to put our staff in a position is to help them resolve the kinds of conflicts, if there are conflicts, to become problem solvers, not just regulators.

That is something that I have been pushing.

But I have certainly not said we are the proponents, because what you are suggesting is that our planners and development review and our team is crafting the project.

I think that as you know, many people already have complained that I weld my red pen more than I should.

And this certainly would be in that direction, which is not a practice that I have perpetuated in the department.

So I'd like to thank you for informing us.

I will make sure that to make sure that the staff know what their roles are.

Yeah, and I I would just say that in that it's, you know, whether it's with parking, which I want to get into in a moment too, because as I think, you know, when we advocate for more parking in certain parts of the city, uh where there might be more of a transit desert or things like that, right?

I think about South Torchester going towards the Ponsett River and Port Norfolk, where there isn't, you know, it's a little bit longer of a walk to Ashmont, and we're still saying they've come.

Well, the planning department told us this is what uh, you know, we have to we can only provide, we're doing nine units, but we can we're only doing three spots.

We came in with more, but they told us down to three.

And we came in with this, but they told us to do this.

And that's the first time anyone is seeing it.

And we're hearing a lot of oh, well, we were told to do this.

And so it leaves the community sort of going, well, you know, the why you even talking to us, and two, if we have criticism, there's less likely to see change given that we were already, you already went in for the criticism before even coming to us.

So um I I appreciate you trying to.

Point well taken.

Yeah, and so I I think that's what we're hearing a lot, and whether that's developers speak trying to write, just sort of say trying to play bolts, I understand that too, but just to know if they are going out there, then the method we're using is sort of being used against us.

Yeah, and we should just say this, which is that I do think that the role of the planning department and planners and our staff is not just to tell people what the regulation is on the one hand, and to also just say, well, this is what the community expectation is, and then say, well, you guys figure it out.

I think that as public servants, um, we have a role in mediating that because we understand the perspective from both sides, and part of this is to actually articulate clearly for everyone what the constraints and trade-offs are, and to not dictate the solution, but to offer different approaches to solving the problem and then mediating the solution.

I take that same history and role and try and apply it to the council here.

So we do have to appreciate both sides.

I appreciate that.

Okay, thank you very much.

We have been joined by my state rep, Sam Antaño.

Um, Councillor Dricken, you're up next.

Thank you so much.

It's great to see the rep here.

We very much are aligned on so many things.

Um, so the BRA is one of the largest landowners.

Yeah, much of its portfolio remains underutilized.

Um I do think it would be helpful for the city council to better understand the revenue capacity of of these sites.

Um is there a comprehensive list of asset inventory or a map of all vacant parcels and surface parking lots currently owned by the BRA?

Yes, uh, and so something we took on the mayor's first term was a comprehensive land audit of not just BRA properties and DAC properties, but also all city of Boston properties and associated quases, including water and sewer and others.

And it is our it's been our directive for several years now to put that in land into productive use as quickly as possible.

Uh and look no further than uh my neighborhood in Charlestown, where we have uh seven acres of parking lot next to a transit station at Ungrail Community College that is BRA owned, and we've uh gone through over the course of this year an effort, or not this year, the last four years, to identify uh both the planning and zoning for that site, then our RFP process, selected a developer who's Trinity Financial, and we're working on building four new buildings uh that would include both a new YMCA for Charlestown and several hundred units of affordable housing and market rate housing.

So we deeply agree that any public land needs to be put to public.

And where um can I find that document?

It's on the city's website, it's called the public land audit.

Public land audit, okay, got it.

And so within that public land audit, you're also working with Boston Water and Sewer and BPS or is BPS separate?

Uh BPS is going through its own master plan processes counselor, as this council knows well, we'd be very excited to work with them on any surplus properties they identify.

But it's I think the school department needs to focus on their academic uses first, and as soon as they complete that effort, we're happy to then take up the work of the process.

Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, I do have some concerns that BPS might be more willing to use some of their land for administrative uses other than housing uses, and I know um Counselor Louis Jeanne and others have worked um to talk about you know if there's surplus city land, what happens with that land and how do we first consider it for housing?

But I have been on a couple of phone calls that I just seen a an interest level in administrative space, and so I I would just request that the city or the planning department push back on that.

You know, I think it's important that we you know use uh properties for their best and highest use.

Um I did want to ask um one of the budget budget explainers for this budget, um, I'll just read it.

It says the decrease of 515,000 in fiscal year 27 reflects a more accurate accounting of which contracts will stay with the quasi BPDA entity and which will shift over to the planning department.

Can you explain what contracts will stay with the with the quasi BPDA or EDIC or BRA?

So the contracts that stayed at the BPDA, the planning contracts were contracts that were finishing out, and I believe that the the need the um citywide needs assessment is certainly one of them.

We have just um finished out the um the use, the um what is the term the needs assessment?

The um the work the work order contracts, so we just recently went through a process of uh of um going out for RFP on the city side, so those contracts are no longer on the BRA side.

On call services.

On call services.

Um the property-related contracts remain at the EDIC.

Because the property remains okay, got it.

Um, so recently the BRA in the we know the BRA has the power to award or grant money to the city as it did with a recent $500,000 grant for the commercial acquisitions assistance program that we recently passed through the planning development and transportation committee.

Given budget create uh constraints, to what extent do you think the BRA's surplus revenues or income can be leveraged to backfill critical gaps in departments like grants for arts and culture, creative, you know, creative sort of as we're in this budget cycle.

Um, I think it's important to realize that the economic engine, one of the economic um engines of the city is development and is uh revenue.

So I'm just curious if that is something that has been discussed within city departments.

No, it has not been discussed.

Because there was one answer um in the arts and culture uh hearing that we had about how development resources through like you know, mitigation might be used to backfill some grant resources, and I just um I think it's really important for me to put on the record as an area that um district eight includes a lot of development.

Um I think it's really important that we prioritize um the impacted communities when we're dealing with mitigation funds.

So just that suggestion at the arts and culture hearing was a little concerning for me, not because I don't care about arts and culture, and not because I don't care about grant resources, but because district eight has been to disproportionately impacted by development.

So if there are development mitigation funds that are that are uh that exist for communities that have been impacted by a particular development, I don't think that it should be seen as a solution, but I do think that BRA potentially donating money to the city for grant money for arts and culture is quite possible based on you know, and I'm not and I'm not suggesting that that should happen, but I'm basically saying district aid is impacted by development, and so I don't think the suggestion, which is not anything that you guys have made, should should um I don't think the idea that mitigation money can be used for other sources when it's specifically for the impacted community um is a solution to this problem.

Thank you.

And just a point of clarification the BP Day right now is not running a surplus.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you very much.

Okay, Councillor Murphy.

Thank you.

In the first round, we you started to talk about, I know we kind of ran out of time, but I just gave that one example about you know, everyone and all different areas of the neighborhood opposed and it passes, and also hearing what Council Fitzgerald mentioned across the city.

I know we were at one together in Dorchester, but hearing that often that while this is what you know is getting passed, and this is what we're being, you know, encouraged to propose.

If you could just speak to that um a little bit more, and then the last one and appreciate you know the commitment and knowing that so many young families are leaving.

My young adult, I guess they wouldn't call themselves young 20, 30 year old children are also seeing, you know, maybe 50 60 miles out from the city, they could maybe afford to, you know, buy a house, so staying, but what neighbors are seeing and what we are passing, maybe 32 units, and that's 32 more housing units, but they're starting at 700,000, or their studios or single, you know, one bedroom.

So they're not going to accommodate them for more than a few years if they're hoping to, you know, maybe get married, grow a family, or needing several roommates just to afford it, right?

So if we could touch on that in my three minutes and 42 seconds.

Um so I think on just the this balance between the guidance that we give developers and what, you know, how that is portrayed as an important um a nuance that we need to manage well.

So I think as part of the modernization of our uh development review procedures, we made it one of the the primary thing that was identified to us was that developers didn't know that exactly what department and uh commission that they were subject to.

So we have done a lot of work with our sister agencies and and departments to make sure that we do a comprehensive kind of guidance to the to the developer when they come in.

So we say, hey, here are all of the things that you need to be prepared for, and then in addition to that, when they ask, we certainly share our experience of the community in particular and share the concerns that we have heard.

Um I think in doing so, it's often seen as more directive than rather than sort of um informative, and and you know, I this is it's good that I'm hearing this because I think this is a nuance that we need to make sure that as we train our staff to do their work that they don't weigh in too early, but that I also don't want them to not weigh in because it's important that we make clear when we are supportive of projects and that we can identify the elements of the project that are really beneficial and consistent with the policies.

Um, some of them are directly related to some of the mission statements of adjusting affordability, equity, and resilience, that we don't just let the proponent do that work.

That we say, well, this project ought to be considered because it fulfills the following sort of um things that are aligned with our mission and our challenges, but at the same time also say, well, be clear where the project may not be consistent and aligned with our goals.

I think that I've said that part of our job is to explain to all the parties concerned and all stakeholders what the trade-offs are and benefits are.

So we often hear the pushback that this project is now, in order to deliver the kinds of uh benefits, it, you know, it it's getting bigger, and that there are impacts from getting bigger, but some of the impacts, if they can be mitigated, I think is warranted.

So finding that balance is something that I'm committed to.

I don't have a kind of, you know, a project should, we should we should approve all projects if they don't have parking because that's a way of shifting people to different modes of transportation.

I don't come to, and I think our department should not come to that with that kind of uh very, let's say, absolutist approach to something that is much more nuanced.

Um, and I also would say that it's incremental planning, while we're always looking at the future, the long term, we have to implement things in the short term.

So there are, I've always said that we can't solve all our problems with the best solution because the best solution requires a different kind of context.

So I'm a big proponent of incremental change, but always moving in the right direction and bringing people along with us.

Now, as for young people, just uh this is something that we're focused on.

It's not just a planning problem.

This is a question, so there's it's not just about housing, it's also about jobs.

So we're very aware of how the two components that relate to us being a vibrant city is that we need to make sure that we are telling the earth for both the right kinds of businesses but the right kinds of infrastructure and so on.

So it is a comprehensive approach.

I think just to make an argument for why the change of making us part of the city department is that for the first time we are being invited and part of the infrastructure within city government to provide planning, not just guidance for private uh investment, but for guidance and for internal city investment and other public investment.

So, and it will take a concerted effort aligning the public goals as well as private uh enterprises and their mission to solve the problem that you raise with our young people because we need to make sure that we have all of the infrastructure that allows young families and young people to be to call Boston home, but we also need to make sure that we're working with the private sector to make sure that our jobs that these young people need are also here.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, uh Councillor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Sorry, before you start, uh we have been joined by Councillor Warrell.

Um I haven't started your time yet.

So whenever you're ready.

Good to see the representative in the House this morning.

And uh I wanted to pick up where uh Reverend Fitzgerald left off talking about uh soil.

And so there are four kinds of soil.

There's a footpath soil, there's a rocky soil, the weedy soil, and then there's the good soil, the good ground.

And I wanted to look at Nubian Square from the good ground and look at the kind of seeds that we're planting in the Nubian Square good ground, and in the planning documents uh the city says that the Nubian Square is a starting point.

That's why it's a good ground for broader rocksburg development.

How does the current pipeline uh projects that are currently being approved actually connected to a unified vision of the starting point for the broader rocksburg development?

So I think Nubian Square has had a very robust history of planning.

And then the um ultimately the investment into the bowling building.

And then there was uh coordination with Bartlet Yards and all of that, all in the sense of you know, directing public investment and building in creating a new city hall, which is now the bowling building and the Boston Public Schools headquarters.

Now then there was the plan Nubian itself that was sort of initiated at the time.

And that talked about sort of other additional private investment and the disposition of public parcels, not only uh BPDA owned puzzles, but also MOH parcels, and to try to then um actually focus on a market rate housing because many of the discussions was at that time that have evolved over time, is uh about homeownership and wealth building that led to many of the.

Kairos, let me just stop you there because my time is and I'm with you on that part.

But how much, and you mentioned the strategic master plan, how much of that has actually been completed or implemented?

There is a significant amount, and actually one of the things that we're putting together right now uh with the Nubian Square Economic Development Task Force is an audit and a tracking of all of that project, and I would be delighted to share that with you as soon as we compile that.

And when you look at the Roxbury and the Strategic Master Plan, you look at the long-term goals, where are we in terms of the next year?

I know Devin talked about a year.

Devin, talk about that over the next year.

Yeah.

Well, I mentioned several times now, but I just it's worth bearish repeating.

The Nubian Square residents who want to get uh break ground on this year, so that will be the most significant new construction start we see.

Uh we have several other projects in the pipeline helping them for a great example of that is the Nubian Square Ascends project of the former Blair lot parking lot.

Is that where the former police station was?

No, that's the 135 Dudley cruise development.

That is nearing that's an affordable housing development.

Where is that?

Um that is it, I believe it is fully assembled all of its financing and could construct start construction as soon as this fall.

Uh that's an MOH funded project as well.

Right.

So those that that after you see Nubian's Nuba residences start, the next one you likely see is the cruise development at the former police station.

And then we're looking ahead to the next set of projects, whether that's the smaller ones like the non-factory or the larger ones like Nubian Square Sends, these projects need help finding tenants, finding financing, that we're we're we are committed, and the mayor's directed caros I and a large group of people to put a lot of the stops to ensure that we get these projects.

Can you keep us up to date on that, especially because we look at what's happening with black market?

I'm not sure what you can do, but I did hear you mentioned Cairos that your office is being encouraged to be problem solvers.

Yes.

What a great solution.

If you could come up with a solution to that black market problem, what a great solution that would be.

So I would encourage you to do that, and even talk with them.

And the last question, if I may, Mr.

Chair, it has to do with the IDP, and I see where the IDP buildings are downtown with regard to the office of residential conversion.

How much of that office of residential conversion and the IDP created units in the community?

So those the residential conversion program will require meeting the inclusionary zoning requirement, which is 17% in the downtown.

And all of those units are on site.

So they don't generate um off-site residential income restricted because that's a it's a residential project.

So there's the same question, same question.

Well, I remember the rule.

If you're on that question about the time the beep goes off, no, we'll do Devin and Kyle's will set up a separate meeting.

I did just want to ask you, Carl, to update us when you get a chance on K 6R Euclid Street at Ward 17.

Yeah.

That's parcel 13.

Happy to receive your request.

Don't answer, don't answer.

Yeah, okay.

We will have time, I think, because uh our next hearing is until three.

Uh if you want to stick around for one one another question or two.

I'll stick around for another question.

Okay, Council Orrell.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the planning department for being here.

Um, we often hear about, you know, whether it's the working class or young people, lifelong Boston residents leaving the city of Boston.

Uh do we know or are we able to track you know what they're leaving for, like what type of properties that they are buying in those other areas, like when they you know move to let's say like Brockton or Randolph or out of the state, is there any way that we could track like sales data or rental data to kind of see you know what?

I don't know that uh this has actually been a question that we have talked about within our research department.

We unfortunately for the people leaving the city, we don't have exit interviews.

Um and so we do have the sales that probably go up or the rent sale of the property just that they're leaving.

Well, we know what people um leave to go to, right?

We don't know where they go to.

Oh, we don't, okay.

We know how population trends are changing, right?

So we know that if if Massachusetts is losing people where where places growing, right?

So we do have sort of like macro numbers, but we don't have the level of granular data that you're asking.

We can't say, so you know, if California is growing or Florida's growing, we can say that.

Maybe we're losing or we are shrinking, so right, but we can't sort of tell you you're these are Massachusetts residents, right?

Yeah, but we we can then determine what type of properties they are buying, right?

In those areas.

There's no question that you can look at the growth of housing stock in different cities and compare them.

There's you can do that.

Do we have um like I would like to see like a comparison versus like what other housing or other states cities?

Can I suggest this um uh counselor?

If you give us uh some of the cities that you're interested in that you want us to compare, let's say how the housing stock and the character of the housing stock and compare us to them.

I'm happy to to look into that.

I would do that.

Um, and then um, you know, we're we're doing a lot of zoning changes, and I guess one of my questions, especially when I you know go to these neighborhood meetings, it kind of feels like what residents are asking for.

Is there like a vision right for each neighborhood?

Right, is like do we want to keep you know, three families in Dorchester, or do we want to make Dorchester 12 units plus?

Do we want to keep single families in West Roxbury, right?

Or is the idea and the vision to upzone that area to make them all four units?

Is there is there like a vision or strategy so we are gonna do so?

All of our planning process often will engage in exactly that question, but we don't come with a preconceived vision, although I I would say that you know the the one thing we're not bound by, like and unlike some other cities and states is that we we don't have to regularly uh create a comprehensive plan.

And I'm not sure that the comprehensive plan system is necessarily something that uh we want to adopt.

What we're doing is that needs assessment to understand the cities and the each of the communities' needs and then we actually are not only looking at needs but looking at assets and liabilities to see how they align with the needs so you know Chinatown's needs are different than uh Dorchester's and the assets that they have are also different so I think that we ultimately do engage in this question about the choices that each community has and whether we can get broad support for these kinds of choices so they end up aligning with kinds of visions but if you were to go to restroxbury and ask a community that the community whether you know it should remain a single predominantly single family you may you know they may say yes but then does that align with the needs of the city and if if if if we're gonna preserve that and it means that growth is only occurring in Dorchester or Roxbury is that actually the right vision so we I think you know what I have encouraged all of us to engage in those kinds of conversations and you know you don't know how good you've had it until we've actually measured it right so for folks that have abundant open space abundant backyards abundant tree canopies it's great but how do you compare to other neighborhoods and what is the responsibility of us in stewarding that character and and to accommodate change that can deal with the growth and young people's needs these are the kinds of questions that planning is constantly engaged in.

That's not I don't think how we're likely to do planning with communities we look more likely to say this residential fabric that we see on this street is the is what we want to continue for the future and on this neighborhood corridor we could imagine that we could accommodate some future growth.

Got it but we do like when we do neighborhood planning we do do it by the neighborhood plan Matt plan these plan these boss and yes and I think a good uh example is the kind of planning we are we are doing in um Austin Brighton where we're trying to be comprehensive but we're also focused in specific areas to the extent that we do go street by street we do.

And I think that some of the experience with the squares and streets was that many of the the feedback that we got was that we were talking about where places would change but not being silent on places that if this change were to occur in the square and street would we be able to maintain the character just beyond the boundaries of the squares and streets and being much clearer about that so that we uh we are more explicit and transparent is something that I've heard and our staff have heard so we are modifying the way that we're doing squares and streets not just focusing on growth but also where preservation and maintaining the the physical character is you know identifying those areas as well.

Okay Council yeah we're gonna do a quick third round okay um uh just uh from the the chair here um and I I guess for for squares and streets I I was just about to ask um you know what's the future of that program uh what's so what we've done so here's what I've uh we've done a lot of good word and good good work in establishing what we call these um uh districts these new zoning districts that have a certain kind of height and density and setback and use requirements.

And they are there's they are now seven of them, or eight, eight of them and um so the work, the foundational work that's been done by squares and streets remain established.

But what we're gonna actually modify is the way that we go about applying these districts.

And I think the feedback that I've gotten, which I've just said, is that we are too focused on just the growth, but not also managing and showing where if growth can occur in certain parts of the neighborhood, then what are the areas that should remain essentially the status quo, if that's the right word, and create the kind of comparable zoning districts that would apply to uh the neighborhood and neighborhood housing.

So the next step that you would see is the neighborhood housing work that we've done.

So uh triple deca uh districts, uh single family districts, and and talk more specifically about how we can allow investment and reinvestment and modifications in this districts to occur and where the companion, let's say higher uh areas where there are opportunities for growth where we can apply the squares and three districts to occur.

Yeah, and so for neighborhood housing, I guess uh I went to a presentation on this in West Roxbury, we'll cohen as I've done that.

Yes, we'll call it spending one of the uh and so like what yeah, when are we gonna see and the idea is like to sort of right size the zoning for existing structures?

So if somebody wants to build on their house, they don't have to get uh zoning variants necessarily or some but uh so when is that?

So we actually just had a meeting yesterday talking about whether we send 17,000 letters to all of the homeowners and and residents that uh that this this new neighborhood zoning uh change would occur.

So you will see being rolled out in the next month or so, a campaign to make sure that we're um uh letting every resident know that we're doing this work and inviting them into public meetings before we then make the zoning recommendation to the zoning commission.

Okay, uh and um I'm sorry, so uh just in terms of the uh mechanics again, uh, of how this uh department works, because funds are coming from the BPDA.

There are also contracts that you're paying out to the like the BRA, for example?

No.

Okay, so I don't know.

I think there's there's some things in the specifically there's a contract for 10 million dollars to the BRA for the Fort Point channel.

Uh how does that how does that work?

So um there are cases where capital projects dollars in the city that are borrowed for the city's capital obligation are transferred for the BPDA to perform the work.

So um the the four-point channel work I imagine is the resiliency project that we generally have it the temporary that um the deployable seawall that our uh BPA our our team is performing that contracting.

Again, I'm just sort of more interested in how the mechanic like that we're getting money from the BPDA and then you like your department is then paying that money out to the correct in this particular case, yes.

Okay, are there any other cases like that?

So there are a number of capital projects that both the EDIC and the BRA are undergoing, and they are receiving capital funds that come from the city.

It's completely separate from the trend that from the transfer piece.

So they're completely separate transactions.

Okay, yeah, so it's not coming out of the the 46 million that is coming from the BPDA.

No.

Okay.

And where does that come from then?

I don't know.

So it's coming from the city's capital budget.

Okay.

Okay.

I have an answer on your position question.

Sure, great.

We have 192 active employees, we have 44 vacancies, we have 11 board members' stipends, which are for BCDC, and we have three interns.

Okay.

Then when you look in the budget book, it says.

This is current number.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I'm saying in terms of positions, it says 244.

So if so, it may not include the 11 board board member stipends position.

Okay, okay.

Thank you.

And again, just the number of vacancies you said 44, 44, okay.

Thank you very much.

Uh so just go for a quick uh third round here, Councillor Fitzgerald or uh Reverend Farmer Rabbi uh Fitzgerald.

You're right.

Play it safe here.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Um the Article AD modernization.

I was I was in the agency when we started that process.

And um what are we seeing?

Where is it I feel like it's it's been a long road to implementation.

Where are we now and sort of what are the results we're seeing?

Is it what we're intending?

Always these things when they go into practice, they they're a little bit skewed from the you know, specific intention we tried.

Are we seeing how are what are we seeing from that?

I know you did touch upon it earlier, but please just uh, so I I think that you were seeing the first fruits of it.

Um a lot of it, as I said, is um, you know, once we decided what are the pieces that we need to streamline, we actually had to implement the templates for.

So we can um we have been developing a template for all of the responses, uh meaning that if you're uh, you know, working in urban design, you don't get to write a five-page memo and describing uh and including all of the sort of justifications of what you know why we're making a certain suggestion or recommendation, talking specifically about what the regulations uh that that are the regulations and what is the response to that regulation and templatizing it so that the work is clear and that we are not wavering or wandering off the main sort of uh regulatory um jurisdiction.

And we're applying that not only to our own internal departments, but we're also using it for transportation, streets, environment, and parks and so on, using this template, and then we actually have now a uh staff structure that uh brings together all of these um relevant staff that are reviewing projects and coordinate it at the very beginning.

So rather than to say have people write their letters and then get them together, we are we're instituting a uh where they meet before they write and fill in their templates so that they're actually talking about potential areas where there may not be alignment and conflict, and then uh making sure we minimize that from the very first uh way that at the very beginning, and then there is a structure now to elevate where staff level can resolve these con these you know different approaches or conflicts, it gets elevated to the next uh hierarchy of of uh of leaders, and then finally where chiefs get together um and to resolve the most complicated ones that uh are not just maybe in some cases substance, but also in terms of the politics.

So we are developing those structure and actively working on changing the culture around development review around Article 80.

And I'm learning, I think not surprisingly, that it's much harder so we can develop the principles, but to apply it and to actually um make sure that that seed of culture change can grow, we have to keep working on it.

So I think the one part about the, you know, in this particular market condition, it it has afforded us a little bit more time to develop this culture change and and hopefully this will take hold so that when the market returns, our systems and our practice is well in place to actually implement change um that will be will will benefit from.

Thank you.

Um I know a lot of squares and streets were just answered in the previous uh by my previous colleague, but um fields corner, squares and streets, just status.

Do we know if that's something that's so funny?

We are not, we have not started that again because we know how sensitive uh uh the community has been about that.

I think what we're focusing on is Clary Square and Hyde Park, and then move and then re-engage Fields Corner.

Great.

Um one other thing I noticed, I noticed one of the things you touted in here was a nail salon got approved without going to ZBA as a good thing.

Uh I would just say I wouldn't choose nail salon specifically.

There is a uh in Georgester we have one uh that's trying to replace a garden.

I think it's sort of it's always referred to in nail salons, liquor stores, and you know, uh cash checking places.

What the city does not need more of, right?

Uh there's a gluttony in in Dorchester, and uh and we have another one coming.

So that there's very specific criticism on that one.

Um, one question for you.

I know we have the approved numbers that you put in here from this last year.

Um, how does it compare?

And I just wanted to understand how does it compare to the previous numbers?

I don't know if you have that off.

And just thinking about what is that delta effect um uh on the department revenue, city coffers, et cetera.

Yeah, I I'll pull it up for you in just a second here, counselor.

But the the uh the overall answer is well, last year was lower in terms of overall square footage that we approved 6.3 million.

It would, you know, it wasn't it wasn't the lowest.

I think the uh that I'm going for memory here, the highest on record, I believe it's around 14 million three or four years ago.

Uh we've seen uh here's around nine million.

This is is similar to uh 2019, 2015, where we saw around about the same number of square footage.

So it's not wasn't our best year, it wasn't our worst year, but we got plenty of square footage um approved.

Good.

And that that approved, but however, not permitted yet.

And that those are hopefully when things turn around, all those can pop.

Um, and I know we're working on helping create that environment to make sure that those buildings can pop sooner rather than just waiting uh for the market conditions to return on their own.

So appreciate all the work you guys do.

Thank you for your time.

That's great seeing all of you again.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Councillor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, well, since you're talking about seeds, I want to look at and I wanted to respond to um we know the history of Roxbury has with going to urban renewal, disinvestment, displacement driven by city decisions.

How does your department explicitly account for what history when approving projects today?

I think that history is not uh far from all of the work that we do, and for some of our staff uh who some of them are also just learning about that history.

So I I think that there's no question that we recognize the disproportionate kind of, let's say, um, uh, disinvestment?

Disinvestment, but I would say the disproportionate impact of uh top-down, top-down driven kind of policy in that one particular neighborhood.

Um, so you know, to the extent that there are things that we can do to account for that, we are often looking to do that.

I think that one of the the the color to that is that we've been working very hard to get to to get the development teams to be more representative of the neighborhood.

So, on the one hand, in other neighborhoods where we can be more forceful uh of community benefits, in order to actually make sure that the value generated by the development is distributed beyond the development team and into the neighborhood.

That strategy when you have a let's say a participant, the actual proponent is just getting the opportunity to participate in the development process.

It's, you know, you have to ask the question whether that you know exacting the kind of benefit is actually beneficial and doing the kind of repertory work that you're talking about.

Um the other part, of course, is that we try to partner uh and to do a lot of the work in bringing on partners and tenants to these development teams.

So in Nubian Sends and previously with um HYM, we were doing a lot of the work working with those teams to try to bring the kind of high value tenancy that is necessary to get those projects off the ground.

So I I think the short answer is that we are working every day to to acknowledge the harm that we have created in neighborhoods and the responsibility of rectifying uh those harms.

I just wanted to add that this is a passion area that just we jumped.

That this is an area of passion for a lot of our staff.

They really deeply care about it, and whether it's the real estate staff thinking about the really harmful legacy of urban renewal takings or the planning staff for the harmful pregnancy of um racist redlining, being in a position to be able to talk about it and rectify it, it's a passion for a lot of us.

I think you're right.

And Kyros, with regard to what Richard Taylor is doing down Nubian Square, how close are we to trying to uh really begin to pull together some of his vision for Nubian Square?

You know, he wants a 300 seat theater, you know, he wants residents there.

How close are we actually to really um having that vision manifest itself as a reality?

I think that there are very significant market challenges that that project faces, and we're working every day to try to help uh Richard advance the vision.

We have um more recently talked about how we can phase that project and to sort to get something going.

So we're working hard on that.

Great.

And it when the phases uh, and I'm coming back to you, Devin, that whole year project, it's the one-year man.

Where are we with regard to that in in one year?

Well, um I think Richard, if he were here, he would not miss the opportunity to say that he needs a tenant for his uh commercial training space or commercial office space on the third floor of his building, it's about 20,000 square feet.

He can offer it at a subsidized rent, but he's really looking for someone to pay about a million dollars a year for 15 years in order to get this thing in a case.

Like Dana Farber, and you know Dana Farber is looking to invest in the community.

How have we talked with Dana Farber at all about being a tenant there?

Um, I I well I do not know that uh we've been working with Dana Farber very closely.

I haven't I am not aware that they are actually looking for space, and if they were looking for space, we would absolutely direct them to Nubian Square.

But I I think that the information that I have heard has not been substantiated by the hospital reaching out to us.

It's I I I so I think there's a there's this different information out there that I can't substantiate.

Can we reach out to the hospital?

I have because I think that's if I have, but I have not been able to substantiate that need.

Okay.

Let's reach out to them together.

And I'm not saying that's a need, but I think if they want to invest in the community, and we have places where they need investment, let's try and work with them to see if they can uh work with us so that that we that vision becomes a reality because I think it's a good one.

And I think this is where government really becomes um helpful when they see the gap, yes, they see the need and work to try and meet that need, and whatever it takes.

Now I'm not saying we're strong on them, but I do think they Dana Farber has said they want to invest in the community.

We need that investment in Nubian Square.

Let's just see if we can't sit down with them to see what investment, if not that investment, could be directed there.

I mean it would make great sense to have some kind of clinic there.

Uh small health clinic there, or whatever, but I think instead of folks going over to Dana Farber all the time over to Longwood, let them come to Dana Farber and Nubian Square.

I'm just saying, looking at the different possibilities, we can't get stuck on them not seeing what we see.

Sometimes we can help in uh Reverend Fitzgerald's uh way of thinking sometimes we can help the blind see.

And uh maybe this is a great case where we can help the blind see.

Thank you, but that's beyond my scope of work.

Okay, thank you.

That's Rabbi Fitzgerald to you.

Uh Council.

Five minutes.

Um I'm hoping by the end of this, I'm gonna come up with a prophetic message as well.

Um sixty-six percent.

Uh I think it might be a little bit higher of our city's populations as renters, 90% of the approved projects, is slated rentals.

Everyone knows I am a big advocate for home ownership.

I'm sure that you guys are prepared for this question.

Um, but does the planning uh does planning consider that condos often generate more tax value per unit than apartment buildings, especially large apartment buildings?

And if so, does that factor into both the city's new growth strategy and its AFFH obligations to expand home ownership, reduce rate racial wealth disparities, and create more stable mixed income neighborhoods?

So can we break that down a little bit?

Uh so the first question about whether a condo building generates more taxes than a rental building.

I actually don't, I've not seen that comparison, and I would be interested in seeing that.

Um because that of you know I presume that in condos, you know, we're also giving residential exemptions on owner occupied.

So I think that it's I would I don't I don't I can't substantiate that statement.

I'm happy to show you the details.

Okay, well I didn't I don't know about the tax rates, but I think in sort of aligning to where we we are able to sort of push the envelope toward where you want us to push towards homeownership counselor.

One place we can see clearly do that is on public land, right?

So on public land, we can control the outcome, we can mandate the outcome, and and we have and uh I keep bringing back up the same several projects, but then we have several projects in Garrison Trotter and Nubia Residents that are homeownership projects that are gonna go into construction this year.

I'm really proud of them.

On the private market side, uh, we don't regulate tenure between uh rental versus home ownership.

We can influence finance, but we can but we we do not regulate it.

All right, and then um I know oftentimes when developers come they talk about whether a project can or cannot pencil.

Um do we have anyone on the planning department staff that you know looks into that financial piece of it?

Yes, okay.

And is that per project or is that only if or when that you know concern is then made?

When does that happen?

When do that when does that person then look into when we have questions, we always uh do the analysis okay, so it's every project or only when that like who and who has questions?

Not every project, but but there are projects that you know, especially when there's a misalignment of the project goals with uh our priorities.

Okay.

Um and then I have I have enough time.

Um the BIFTIC, when when did when does that can you explain to me your relationship and when do they come into the process?

So that's the Boston Interagency Fair Housing Council, yeah.

Uh so that's a membership of uh fair housing, uh uh mayor's office of housing, uh the planning department, I believe arts and culture is represented on it and the disabilities.

So every art large-scale article project, uh, subject to fair housing review uh has a review uh from the DIFDIC, the different members of the committee issue their recommendations, and that this is a great example of regulation versus influence.

So oftentimes the recommendations we hear from the DIFDIC are things like hey, well, Boston really is in need of more numbers of family-sized units.

Could your affordable units be family units with more of your market your markets and and um well we can't guarantee every one of those outcomes because we can't say thou shalt that developers are very helpful uh often willing to work with us or make trade-off decisions that lean in those directions.

And does that happen like does that happen at the end in the middle?

When is that?

It happens for prior to Article A approval, so more like the middle?

More like the middle.

Okay, so alright.

If I could just kind of get a clarity, like if the IAG gets that information.

It's similar to the IAG.

The IEG would get that information, okay?

It concurrently today.

Okay.

Right.

Um and then the example that I do have is for the taxes on buildings is one Dalton generates 15 million in taxes, and then Avalon at TD Garden generates 3 million.

And it's around the same unit count, if not the same.

The other question I have is around.

I guess I'll go back to like the parking question.

There are often times where the developer will be proactive and coming out, showing the community the plan, and the residents you know see park sees parking in the plan, and then they'll go to the planning department and then they'll say the planning department decided to move it.

And I I heard your you know your remarks to Council Fitzgerald and Councillor Murphy.

But can you tell me like what would be the benefit for you know the community or the developer for removing parking?

Because that oftentimes they're not increasing um uh the unit count, trying to get more units and kind of increase the affordable uh unit, but what what what would be the benefit?

The benefit would be that actually usually parking, providing parking will either take up land or if it's built, uh re you know, take up c additional costs.

So it's a question about capacity.

Right.

And so um in, you know, obviously we have been much more um using our best judgment uh and working with the community and the developer to always try to find a solution that is both efficient and um feasible while actually addressing the transition from us still being in many neighborhoods car dependent to a community that would be multimodal.

So, you know, we recognize that and certainly in the in the core areas where there's a lot of transit capacity, we have been uh generally uh very supportive of uh developments that have very minimal or in some cases no parking at all, but that of course is not something that can be applied everywhere, because I think you've heard today in various counselors saying that for areas where there is more reliance on vehicle travel, we have to be much more open-minded about solutions that um are acceptable by as many people as possible.

Last question.

Um I know we're gonna do neighborhood zoning.

Can you tell me what neighborhoods you said it was eight neighborhoods?

Um what you have, but then also on top of that, uh you mentioned you know, preserving, right?

And then there might be some more aggressive type of zoning, whether it's like up like increasing the density.

Like how how would you determine you know what type of zoning is placed inside of each of those neighborhood zoning processes or street by street.

So we work very closely with the community to talk about sort of the types of land uses and where areas where there is capacity where height and density is more appropriate and acceptable.

Um and you know, it's a it's an iterative process, and we talk about the trade-offs of that.

I when I say preservation, I mean to say generally not in the historic preservation, like where there are restrictions, but that the zoning is very clearly not incentivizing teardowns and making sure that people can reinvest, and when they do, when there are vacant lots, to um encourage the kind of redevelopment that is more consistent with the adjacent buildings and character that exists today.

And I'm happy to give you, rather than for me to miss out on the neighborhoods, we'll give you a list of the initial group of neighborhoods that this neighborhood zoning uh change would occur in.

And we're focusing on the the neighborhoods and areas that have the largest lots, because what we've figured out now uh is that rather than looking at the physical buildings uh themselves, to look at the size of lots, because an ADU, for instance, right in the denser part of Dorchester where there are lots of you know three and four families and maybe even six families sell them they are they almost occupy the entire lot right and ADUs in those areas are not as easy as ADUs in West Roxbury where they may be a two family or single family that has lots of you know the lot size is bigger.

So our work with the community will focus on trying to understand our neighborhoods not by just what is built but by what the leftover parcels are within or left over unbuilt portions of the parcels.

Right now I like that and it's just thank you thank you for that thank you chair for the extra time.

Thanks Council.

I'm gonna call on them now you're gonna have two minutes you can see the clock behind me so Marjorie when whenever you're ready just tell us your name where you're from and uh the sum.

My name is Marjorie Skillman and I'm on the uh topic of and the designs and all that are fine but because the economy is bad and getting worse so I was told I would like for you you say you have community meetings well I've never I have worked on a computer and I just see a lot of uh openings job openings but your hiring I believe is not up to pie your demographics with the hiring and that's the end I'm worried about uh with people of color and I'm speaking about blacks mainly because they're less hired today for whatever other reasons are investigating need more investigating but the job in of the hiring of uh because it's been so bad historically um a lot of folks are reaching out for jobs cannot get a job and the jobs that are for the housing BHA the housing departments forget it the demographics historically was bad it's very bad now and it's keeping a lot of folks who are of color um out of working period degrees people with degrees and everything so uh that's a problem and it's a problem with not just Boston Housing Authority the housing it's a problem with a lot of other and a lot of other area fields that list hiring and don't hire but my interest and why why I'm speaking it's because the the housing authority their demographics and it's not so much the housing authority it's the demographics your hiring would you be able to come up and show that specifically the demographics of your hiring practices.

And to make up for your historical because even the hiring historically has been off kilter as far as when it comes to people of color we can provide the kind of demographic distribution of our workforce in the council.

Ms Gilman we do request that data uh by each department that there is well it's um it's not obvious yeah so we we we can share with you uh I have I have your email address.

Yes please thank you.

And um one other thing and then I'll leave you alone um as I said the uh the past the demographics as far as the hiring, it's very bad.

And uh I kind of got off track.

Uh uh from thinking about the next thing.

But anyway, it keeps people at um dependency on government.

Housing, whatever assistance, you know.

When you're even when you're not getting uh low income housing, you know, poor is poor.

But when you're not getting the housing, you're not getting the jobs, and and you stated that you'll have development and designs.

So this is very important coming to the meetings in the communities because we are not seeing it.

The hiring practices are bad if not a bit too low.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh next up, we've got Clifton Braithwaite.

Good evening, Council.

Good evening.

Um, Clifton Braithwaite.

I'm not here in the role of a community activist or as a statesman.

I'm here as a proud son of um Jerry and Gloria Gaskell and Braithwaite.

For a long time I've been fighting.

This is my legacy right here.

I need help to save my property.

It's not about the money, it's about the deception and the betrayal that I went through.

I need help.

I need someone to help me filter through the paperwork.

I did the best that I can.

But it's hard when you're fighting trials and tribulations, and I need help.

I put in a lot of work.

I've been in all these rooms, and one thing I don't hear is the people that are like me, men or women, black or white, that when you're fighting over property where people don't even have two T's in the bucket to fight for it, and the trials and tribulations that I'm going through.

I just turned on my mother's electricity.

I get the gas inspection to come check it, the house out to make sure that I can turn on the gas.

I'm doing this all from heart, but I feel like we being the patriarch of the family now.

I just wanted to put it on record.

I need help so I can at least leave my family what my mother left for me for my children.

I just wanted to put it on record.

And whenever anybody can talk to me, I have as much as I could do as a common man.

I'm just asking for help.

Thank you for letting us say thank you very much.

We could talk right after this.

Okay, so uh I think that that brings us to one o'clock.

Uh we have a hearing, we'll be back here at three.

I just want to thank the panelists.

Uh, no one else online.

Um, thank you, you know, for all your testimony.

I do think this this stands out as sort of being an incredibly important uh department in terms of its impact.

I feel like we could be here for hours talking about the work that you do because that's such a great impact on all of the residents of our city, uh, and it's it's to me it's not so much a question about the budget, it's a bit more philosophy and and our policies.

Uh, and so I I really I hope we get to talk to you again very soon, because uh we have a lot a lot of work to do.

Okay, thank you very much for this hearing is a chair.

Yes, yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, Clifton, you can just come to uh Counselor Culpepper's office.

So I'll be to sit down with you, probably uh honestly, is Counselor to the extent that these are planning department related questions that we can be helpful to the gentleman.

Please let us know.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have to be at a I'm late for another meeting, but I'm happy to make myself available.

Okay, okay, thank you.

This hearing is now adjourned.

Thank you.