Good afternoon.

Get this uh show on the road here.

Um my name's Ben Weber.

I'm the Boston City Council for District Six and the Chair of the Boston City Council on Ways and Means.

Uh this afternoon is it's still May 7, 2026, and the exact time is two fifteen PM.

Uh this hearing is being recorded.

It's also being live streamed at Boston.gov slash city-council-tv and broadcast on Xfinity Channel 8, RCN channel eighty-two, and files channel nine sixty-four.

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It's Thursday, May 26th at 6 p.m.

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This afternoon's hearing is on docket number 0733 to 0740, an overview of the fiscal year 2027 operating budget for the Boston Police Department.

This hearing will focus on overtime, the detail system, officer mental health, and diversity and recruiting.

Again, this is one in a series of hearings on the fiscal year 2027 budget.

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And if there's any questions, please flag down our director of legislative budget analysis, Karishma, who's sitting behind me.

Okay.

Let's see here.

So okay, these matters were sponsored by Mayor Michelle Wu and referred to the committee on April 8th, 2026.

I'm joined by my colleagues in order of arrival, Councillor Flynn, Councillor Fitzgerald, Councilor Murphy, Councilor Pepin.

We've received a letter of absence from Councillor Mejia.

Oh, and Councillor Durkin also, is here.

So generally we waive opening statements at these budget hearings.

I'm just going to introduce our our panelists.

We have uh superintendent of Bureau of Field Services, John Brown, Superintendent of Bureau of Investigative Services, Paul McLaughlin, and Superintendent of Bureau of Intelligence and Analysis, Lenita Kulinin.

We've also been joined by Councillor Louie Jen.

So again, generally we waive opening statements.

So you don't.

So we will go directly to uh the counselors.

Again, we're this afternoon.

The focus is overtime, the detail system, officer mental health, and diversity in recruiting.

Uh this morning we covered uh um covered community policing, uh mental health and substance abuse response and some other subjects.

The council is prepared to answer whatever questions you have, but um I think we we put off some questions on overtime and detail systems so uh if you're looking for areas to focus on those those would be what's on the schedule for this afternoon.

Um so counselor Flynn, uh, you're gonna have seven minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I will try to keep my questions and comments relating to officer mental health in recruiting and retention this morning.

I discussed staffing related issues.

I I believe we need to hire, as I mentioned this morning, 300 police officers every year for basically for the next 10 years.

Um, we are we are understaffed.

Police officers are working 16 hour shifts, and we need to be feared while police officers and we need to be fair to their families as well.

That brings me to retention.

And I I do know that a lot of police officers are retiring for for various reasons before the mandatory retirement age.

I think one way we could we could address that is is being as a body and being and as a city is supporting our police officers and their families the best we can, and especially during challenging and difficult circumstances, it is important for us to demonstrate our support to the men and women of the Boston Police Department.

Knowing that they're working 16 hours a day, and that makes a very difficult stressful time for them and their families when you're working those types of shifts, and you have to take a kid to a doctor's appointment, and then then halfway through your shift, your first shift, they notify you that you have to work an extra shift.

So it does it does put added stress on the family.

Which goes to my my question, maybe to the commissioner.

Commissioner, what is unique that you're working on as it relates to health and wellness for police officers and police officers' families as well.

Well, so I don't know how unique what we're working on, but we've done some things to try to address the wellness, and it's certainly something we can do a lot more of.

More recently we've um they put out an app, which you heard me talk about a little bit in the first session, um giving the officers access to um certainly some of the tools associated with wellness uh and access to information regarding from I think uh financial resources to you know meditation to actually resources around you know mental health.

Um we certainly have our peer support unit that helps support uh the men and women that uh do the job, but from time to time we've you know, whether we got money from the foundation or other resources to have um you know physicians be available for wellness checks for officers that want to uh actually contribute, I mean not contribute, but be involved in it.

Um in this last contract in particular uh we I think uh allowed or certainly put, I think 30 minutes a day that officers can have access to wellness opportunities, whether it's fit physical fitness or you know, meditation or things that will certainly help them address some of the stressors of the day-to-day uh work that they do.

Uh you said unique, a lot of places do these things.

There's a lot of things out there, and and we're trying to be inventive, but more importantly, um do it in a way that doesn't both break the budget, but uh but gives the officers an opportunity to get rid of some of the stresses of the day-to-day life that they they experience.

Thank you, Commissioner.

I I always stress when I'm talking in these types of discussions, a police officer and their family.

I also believe their family serves as well, and the family goes through challenging times when the spouse is working a 16-hour day shift, as as you know, um, it does put stress on a family, put stress on stress on the kids, children as well.

But how are we supporting how are we supporting the family, Commissioner, or how are we supporting children, knowing that their their father or their mother is working in a stressful job and oftentimes is not home, but is there anything that we can do as a city that can support them in terms of a better family life family balance?

Yeah, work life balance balance.

I know as a city, um, one of the uh the things that I think officers are taking advantage of is the um uh it's not the FMLA, but the um parental parental leave uh where officers get it.

Is it 12 weeks?

12 weeks, 12 weeks uh of uh time off to if they have a child that's born to be with their family and help their their loved one, you know, raise the child, and or more importantly, just be there.

And then it doesn't have to be taken all at once.

And so, I mean, that's something that's been, you know, that we uh certainly uh is applies to all our officers as well.

I think that's something that uh you know that that goes to families.

Um you know we're we're blessed in the sense that a lot of the officers uh, you know, they do things internally that go well long well beyond my ability to to be inventive.

You know, there's programs where that there's this these hockey programs and and other programs that internally that they do, they create themselves supported by the BPPA, where they bring their families and they actually play sports and engage and socialize together.

I think that you know that's helpful.

Uh the more activities that people can come together in a non-police environment just to relax, unwind and actually be around each other.

I think that that goes a long way.

Um, you know, I can't right now think of all of the different things that exist, but the fact is that we're trying, and we're we're you know, we're always looking for ideas on how we can actually um do more.

Thank you, Commissioner, and you're exactly right.

I also want to, and you reference it, Commissioner.

I also want to recognize the important role and work of the Boston Police Patrolman Association, um Larry Kelderon, but also um we had the um detectives um were here yesterday um detectives union.

Um they were talking to us about some of these issues as well, but also the superior officers union also plays a critical role, um, advocating for police officers advocating for their families advocating for the health and wellness that you were referencing and talking about too.

Um Mr.

Chair, I'm out of time, I'll wait to the second round.

Okay, thank you very much.

Councillor Gerald.

I'm next.

Thank you very much, Chair.

Uh, and thank you, panel, for coming back for a second uh round today.

Um, get right into it.

Uh what percentage of overtime spending is mandatory?

Uh you know, the court appearances, minimum staffing, special events and stuff versus discretionary overtime.

Yeah, I don't think we have that with us, but when you say mandatory, I do know we are doing all we can to reduce the number of mandatory overtime that we require folks, certainly major events, marathon, um, you know, St.

Patrick's Day.

Uh there's certain um certain events that require our entire department to work, and those those events certainly have you know additional uh you know overtime associated with it.

Um but for everything else, we're really trying to be, like I say, more efficient and effective in what we do.

Like I said, reimagining how we staff both the events and more importantly, um, making sure that the officers aren't being forced into overtime to cover.

And and I we were having a lot of recent success in our ability to do that.

Great.

Thank you, sir.

Um, which do we know which districts or specialized units uh sort of rely on them or demand the most overtime?

So again, that has also been reassessed by actually um looking at some of the specialized units and redistributing uh the units from the numbers, whether they work days or nights, uh making sure that they're I don't want to say equally distributed, but basically uh matching up to the need that's out there.

If there's an issue that's uh mostly days and the unit is mostly nights, then we're reassessing the people in those units and putting them on the on the the time that they're needed uh as opposed to you know trying to make it up with overtime.

Um, and and that there are many units like that that we're that we've been going for and looking at to make sure that um, like you said, we're being efficient in operations.

And it changes because the world changes.

What was a day issue today, a month from now, all of a sudden becomes a night issue.

And so we're gonna try to evaluate you know our staffing and what we're doing to address it as much as possible, real time to always be mindful of the money spent and more importantly, the overtime that we're requiring officers to be here for.

Great.

So I I mean, I know in our previous hearing we talked about mass and cash being a big driver of overtime.

So I was just wondering what other when we talk about overtime if it's being an issue, then you know, where is the bulk of that going?

Is there any, even historically uh a district or a unit that's saying, hey, this is this is really where we're massive cash certainly was a significant driver, but I would lease her.

But I also think that some of the special events of significant drivers in our our are overtime, all categories of overtime.

Um one of the, like, for example, um, district community events are up seventy-two percent, 75% compared to this time last year.

And you know, I did an analysis of like the special events in in Boston, and some of obviously mass and cast is captured as uh special events, but it's just so that we can capture that class so it's it's coded to the 400 series.

But like for example, like all the festivals that we have, those are big drivers of overtime.

If if the paths won the supervival poll, that would have been a big driver of overtime.

But I think it's just consistent across all units and districts, but different categories for different bureaus.

Yeah, to bring that up.

You know, depending on the size and timing, uh that can absolutely uh drive overtime, um, depending on the time uh and you know, the size, the type, and and you know, those aren't as predictable.

They happen all times, and and we don't, you know, we can't put a cap on it, love to, but the fact is is uh the world dictates that they can happen almost any time uh a day.

So uh which would lead me to, I mean, sometimes some of these events uh necessitate a full call-up.

What is it what do we know what a full call-up costs?

A marathon, a St.

Patrick's Day.

Yeah, um, what about marathon?

Let me tell you if I do have a don't need to have the answer now, but it just if yeah, if you can't at some point answer, I'll go to my next question.

If you have a uh just an absolute, it's a significant you know amount when we because we're calling up everybody.

Yeah, um, sure.

They're on and off duty, and um, and that's a significant amount of overtime.

And when that occurs, I know sometimes we rely on outside agencies to help, right?

When we have a full call-up, we have to lean on uh maybe neighboring towns and cities and outside agencies to sort of supplement.

Um I imagine that comes at a cost, but I don't know who pays for that cost.

Is there any uh insight there?

Um we we have mutual aid agreements, so for example, um there were several mutual uh aid agreements for the Boston Marathon, but there is no cost to us.

It's almost like you know, they have mutual agreement agreements with us, and we go in if we need to assist for any of our like special ops teams to go in, but that's um not a cost to us.

But I just wanted to point out, council, that um the St.

Patrick's Day parade is considered a full call up for the Boston Police Department.

This year it was 11,826 overtime hours.

If you use our average overly um average overtime rate, the cost is roughly 993,000.

Okay, thank you so much.

No, that's important.

Eleven thousand, so eleven thousand hours for that for one event.

That's right.

11,000 overtime hours for one event.

Which I guess would just lead me to my last question.

When we think about approving these events, knowing that Boston police is part of the process, but not the the sign-off on special events.

And I think we just heard even district events are up 75%, local events, uh, if I heard that correctly.

Do we think about that uh in the amount of events we should be?

We want community to be brought together, we want these things to happen, we want you know, people to programmatic uh events to occur so people are able to have stuff to do.

But do you think we're factoring in that overtime cost when these things happen?

Um, if that's the issue, or I guess what I'm gonna get to uh are maybe we signing off on too many, and who's the we when you say we?

Well, the we I think I whoever I don't know who does have the I mean special events I imagine has uh the the final sign off on a lot of these things, but I'm sure down to ONS.

I I'll say this, and you know, particularly you know, we provide public safety, but um as a city, you know, uh the city is a vibrant city, we're a major city.

There's a lot goes on here.

As I don't know if it's our lane to say, you know, how many events, what kind of city we want to be.

We provide public safety regardless of what direction we want to go.

We just have to make sure it's a safe event.

So we we provide the guidance that's needed for what we need to do to do that.

Um if you have multiple large-scale events, we only have so much capacity.

And and once we run out of capacity, the only way to do it is to bring in people that aren't currently working to increase our numbers in that way.

And then at some point we can't even do that, we have to use our neighbors and ask them to help us.

Um, and it is mutual aid, but the reality is is that not a lot of places can routinely come in and help us for that.

Um that being said, throughout the year, we've been able to manage almost every event that we've been asked to do successfully knock on wood.

But the fact is, I don't know if it's our role to determine.

No, I think I think the comment I like.

And the point is we do give advice, we do try to give guidance about and actually in a lot of people, certainly within the city.

They listen to us from certainly from time to time around trying to move things and things of that nature because we have so many events happening at the same time.

Because that happens quite often sometimes.

Multiple events throughout the city, and I say we don't have the capacity to be in two places at once.

No, I think I just was highlighting the fact that some of the overtime is not actually in the control of BPD, but sometimes of the outside events, and you guys are doing your duty to fulfill.

And so there might be other things that we could look at and how to limit overtime.

We don't control the number of frequency of those events.

I think that was my point.

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Uh Councillor Murphy.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, thank you for coming back.

I should have said this earlier.

I do just want to um shout out our you know, municipal police who are here every day for us, but our new addition, Sergeant Mills is wonderful, and Officer Paula, and um Officer Z who are here with us every day.

Just want to thank them.

Um, and also give a shout out to the patrolmen.

I know Larry, Jamie and Jennifer are here.

Thank you for always advocating for you know our police officers.

That's that's important, and they they have your support.

So thank you for that.

I spent most of um my time this morning addressing mental health supports that we're offering our residents.

Touched a little bit on you know the supports that our offices need.

Um, I do just want to thank the patrolmen because I know they worked really hard during this last contract and fought hard to make sure that the health and wellness benefits that we see, and I know you've highlighted them from previous counselors talking about it, but thank you to the unions for fighting to make sure because they saw that need, and thank you for seeing that.

Also, I will um touch on the staffing.

I mean, it's the long-standing issues of understaffing, overstretched resources, forced overtime, and looming retirements at the police department is a public safety and a public health emergency, which also disregards um you know offices' personal, physical, and emotional well-being.

I know um counselor Flynn kind of touched on it already and addressed you know when our offices are working so much overtime and the family, you know, is part of that stress, also.

So I don't really have any question on that.

I know we do have a standalone hearing coming up, so we'll talk more about that.

But did want to spend my minutes I do have left addressing overtime, if I can, Lisa.

I think you'll have lots of good answers for us.

Um so each year during budget season deliberations, which we're right in the middle of now, significant discussion occurs regarding police overtime spending and the financial impact of overtime costs that the city's operating budget.

The BP uh deed provides overtime coverage for a variety of public safety needs, including emergency responses, public safety staffing, special events, construction details, and other operational requirements.

And many of the police details throughout the city are associated with private construction projects, utility work, sporting events, concerts, and other activities where outside entities such as utility companies and developers or event venues are responsible for reimbursing the city.

We spend, I would say, you know, countless hours debating this back and forth, especially when we're going through an amendment process or trying to see where we can pull.

And frequently, you know, questions are raised by members on this body, but also the public on how police overtime is funded, how it's reimbursed for when we have paid details, and you know, what is the actual clock cost?

So if you could just kind of go through some of the different ways over time, is assigned and how the city, how much the city actually pays for it, and how much are we reimbursed?

Um I'll say this details aren't overtime, that's uh totally private sector where the city you know takes a portion of that and then the officer uh uh gets a certain detail rate.

Um, and I think outside of that, I don't think there's any cost to the city, particularly around that.

Overtime, uh we've talked a little bit about overtime is assigned multiple ways, whether it's to extended tour, special events, um, uh um, you know, mandatory things like St.

Patrick's Day events, large-scale events, protests.

Um, any time that uh we add assignments that are part of the officers' regulatory duty, uh, that would incur overtime, or when you have to call officers back into work for some reason around that.

Those are some of the I didn't exhaust them, but certainly some of the categories of which overtime can happen and occur.

Um, when we're putting overtime, it's usually it's a strategic choice we're making about making sure we address the public safety need.

Uh what we've been doing more recently, as this would be um projected to be the third year in a row that I over time have just decreased uh and not increased, but it actually decreased as we are like I said, evaluating each event that we have, uh making sure that we're being more efficient and and and how we address it by looking at the staffing that we have, the personnel that we have, and making our department that basically uh become a lot a lot bigger in a sense uh by using other units, other parts throughout the police department institutions.

Are we still doing that rotation where specialty units?

We were but we have we did we uh do the promotions and some other things that we did recently.

We we have not done it in about is it been nine months of the year.

Yeah, since since November, I don't think we've done it since November.

Do we plan on starting it up again?

Um no, we might do something else, and that was a stop gap measure to like again try to reduce when we first came.

There was a lot more overtime that we were doing.

Um since then, we've been able to do better evaluations of our personnel and our staffing, and and we're going to continue to do that to make sure that we're staffing events at an appropriate level, meeting today's need, not a need from 10 years ago or five years ago.

Uh, and so um we're looking at it from uh public safety point of view where we're looking at the intelligence that is out there, all the factors leading up to it to make sure that it's appropriately staffed, uh, and then also again using our whole department to try to address it as opposed to each individual place to do that.

We um hear a lot about the number of permits pulled in events in different neighborhoods, and some districts are you know disproportionately, probably A1 has the most, maybe, or others.

Do the captains still sign off on those events if there's needs to be police detail or at least acknowledgement.

I thought I heard that no longer is the captain's signature what's needed to get the permit.

So we are part of the process, and I say that the police, but we are not the you know the end, the end, like so special events says yes or no.

We're part of that process.

We advise about what our needs would be, what they would need to do, requirements give uh people advice on um time, place, a bunch of different things, but we we we cannot say no, ultimately.

If the city has a you could say no though, right?

If you felt as though it wasn't safe and it was too much.

When I say it's not our lane to say no, it's not the process is not meant for us to stop it.

The process is meant for us to advise, have people do certain things, um, and for the most part, when we give advice, it's it's it's listened to.

Okay, thank you, China.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh, we've been joined.

I think Counselor Louie Gen, Counselor Santana, Councilor Braden, Councillor Culpepper.

Um, uh next up is Counselor Pepenn, then Durkin, then Louie Jen, then Santana, and Braden, and Culpepper.

So Councillor Papin, seven minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and again, it's good to see you all.

Um, this this morning, I was able to focus a little bit on the mental health and on the diversity and representation inside of the force.

So, thank you for answering those questions.

Also, a shout out to the BPPA.

I'll thank you all for the work you all do.

Thank you for everyone for the work that you all do.

Uh, one I really wanted to focus on um traffic, what's the right civilian traffic controllers?

That is a question that I get a lot in my district about, and it's for those of you to put into perspective.

If it's a construction site and they're there to monitor the traffic and to control traffic, there's a lot of residents in my district that I say, well, how can we put civilian traffic controllers into the conversation to assist?

Is there I believe I don't know if it was mentioned if there's a policy in place that hasn't been passed yet, or like are we working on it?

Because I know that's something that residents are really asking for, and it's pretty it's a it's a really supported idea in the city of Boston.

And so we've been working on this now for well over a year or two.

Um the detail system uh part of what was uh contractually agreed to is that um that any overflow details that we have, details of those construction um jobs that you made reference to after the patrolmen uh didn't fill it.

Uh in other public safety agencies don't fill it.

Uh the remainder in retirees uh once we get it up and running.

The remainder could go to civilian base personnel, and we're in the process of still trying to get that up and running.

Do we have a time frame?

Um, right now the contractor that we contracted with extra duty solutions, their application um is more of an out of the box whereas we needed to customate it, customize it for our uh rules plus our bargaining agreements.

So that has taken a little bit longer than we anticipated.

We're expecting a full functioning system this um next week with the expectation we could we can begin user acceptance testing.

Um next week so that we could start potentially using the retirees?

No, user acceptance testing.

Now we have to test it.

Now, once we have a fully functioning product, we gotta start it from assignment to actually paying the officers and making sure that everything is reconciled accordingly.

Once we've done that, we're looking at implementation roughly the end of August, beginning of September.

But again, it's gonna be a later layered approach as the commissioner has indicated, that we're gonna need some times to make sure that we get all the bugs and the kinks out once we go live, and then we will layer in the other public safety um agencies, retirees, and then what we'll call the um third party flaggers, which would be the civilians.

Okay, so this is something in motion and just taking a little longer than expected.

It's taken longer than we thought because you know you're trying to take an out of the box system and customize it.

So it's a lot of customization that's much more than we anticipated once we started getting into the product.

Okay, the project.

Okay, yeah, okay.

Um thank you for the clarification on that.

I wanted to ask do they get paid through the does the construction company usually have to pay to get the detail, or did that come from our budget?

No, there's there's no third-party vendor details on fund 100 anywhere in our operating budget.

So all these utility companies and other private vendors who are seeking a detail for for various reasons.

They they pay us.

We we do billing once a week.

The city receives a 10% admin fee unless it's another governmental agency, they don't charge another agency and municipality 10% admin fee.

And we pay the officer directly, but we accrue that receivable, and it's worth mentioning is that um we in pay details, but not 2025.

We had a 98% collection of those details.

So nothing is really coming out of the city's pocket.

Okay.

Um we're only like what, three quarters through the fiscal year 26, and we're right now at an 82% collection rate.

I I'll give kudos to the the folks in my detail unit that do a great job doing collections to making sure that we get paid.

Thank you.

And through the chair, are those are those numbers that you can share?

Like is the the receivables?

Oh, we have that.

I don't have it available, but absolutely okay.

Thank you.

Um the subject of transportation.

I have also been one of the big stronger advocates for the commissioner knows this because I've sat multiple times in his office talking about this.

The enforcement of the stop signs of a school bus.

Um, this was something that was passed by the governor, I believe, two December's ago, and other municipalities and towns across the state have been able to incorporate it.

Last year I submitted the order in the city council for us to be able to adopt to be able to use that type of enforcement in the city of Boston.

We've been working with the ACOU, ACLU as well to make sure that we're doing everything with what they agree with in terms of the timing of the enforcement and everything.

But now what we're learning is that part of the process is also figuring out who's going to be the one to do the ticketing in case someone violates the stop signs on the school bus.

Is it the TD Transportation Department?

Is it BPS, or is it the Boston Police Department?

Well, we've learned is that the other municipalities and towns across the state, it usually is coming from their police departments.

I want to know if that because that is not a possibility, is there an avenue for us in Boston for someone in your traffic division or use some of the existing funds to create a unit for uh not a unit or a staff or staff for to be able to do this in the city of Boston?

I'll say that we were certainly you've been in my office and mentioned this before, and we absolutely will review it as you get further along in the process.

Um, again, I don't know if we're have the luxury to create another specialized unit, but the fact is there are some people that might already be you know well suited to do this, whether it's the uh auto men or women in the uh the districts, um but we'll we will absolutely get it done.

If it's passed in some way, we will participate and figure out um who in our space would be able to do that.

Yeah, and just for clarifying in the last 20 seconds, I'll just say that the order was passed last year.

My my council colleagues voted in support of it.

Now what we're gonna work on is the order to the ordinance to be able to see what is the actual structure of how this is going to look.

So I'll probably be inviting you guys, the transportation department and BP Boston Public Schools transportation division as well to figure out what's the right approach here.

And if I remember correctly, there's also a legal component to this too, as well as as far as if we're you know a cameras captioning and we're writing it, you know, making sure the law catches up to it and you know what our authority is around it.

So we still have a little bit more research we have to do on it.

Well, the governor passed it, so that was that was the limitation in the city of Boston in other towns across the state.

So she now gave the approval.

Yeah.

So that's that's it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Okay.

Just uh before we move on to Councilor Jerkin.

I I just to clarify something on the details, and I believe I believe Councillor Murphy has filed a hearing order or something like about how we look at the detail, you know, amounts paid in the terms of the budget.

So I guess when we talk about the overtime, uh, you know, for spending whatever, you know, 100 million, something above that.

Does that number include amounts that were we've paid out, which are going to be reimbursed by the details?

No, the only license was that.

The only time that it might hit fund 100, which is the operating budget, is if we deemed something is uncollectible.

Okay, and that's when we would do a you know offset against the receivable and hit the overtime line.

Um, and in general, it's very, very, very small.

Um, and like I said, we do a good job at the paid details unit and headquarters in collections, but again, it's very small, and it's it's after like years of trying to collect money before we would write that off.

Okay, and just so just making sure we're all you know comparing apples to apples, and so the the amount you get paid if if somebody's uh working on a detail and they're uh a police officer, that's wages.

Uh is that reported as wages, like in uh in the budget?

No, it's not not in there at all.

Okay, uh, okay, thank you very much.

I I hope it clarifies something for me.

I don't know if it clarifies for anyone else, but uh Councilor Durkin, you're up next.

Thank you so much, Chair.

Um, that kind of got at one of the questions that I've been asking in um conversation about over time is obviously there are a lot of paid details um in district eight, you know, having TD Garden and Fenway Park, and there are certain agreements that um are reached with those venues around you know how many officers are going to be staffing um the area for a specific event.

Obviously, the you know team isn't doing so well right now, so I don't know.

Hopefully, people are still going to games.

Do those numbers shift in terms of obviously, even paid details, do those do those um numbers shift um based on attendance, um, for instance, like at you know, if you are expecting you know more people at TD than usual versus you know, like a concert versus a ball game.

So I think at the beginning of the season, usually they establish a you know uh a cadence of you know number of people required.

But yes, playoffs, uh championship games, yes, it does grow uh around that and um certainly um celebrations like the subject, you know, celebration.

And those are that's revenue to the police department, like because they're there's a certain amount of details that are reimbursed from so details are private sector, they they pay the the officers' wages, and with the you know, a small administrative fee that the city receives around those, but um, yes, so that's not included in our budget, and it's there's no uh payment from taxpayers in that way.

Got it.

Okay.

So just to pause there, just I don't pause your time.

But there's like a a fee that we collect right on the details, a 10%.

So there is, I mean, where does that go?

And then I'll back to you, Councillor Jordan.

The revenue, the revenue that we collect on the 10% administration fees going directly into fund 100.

Okay, city.

Not not the police fund.

Not directly to the not to the police department.

But it does raise money for the city.

Yes, correct.

And how much is that a year?

I don't have that number on me, but I think we can get that.

Okay, thank you, Councilman.

Thank you so much.

Um one pet peeve of my district is just all the road races that run through the back bay, and so many different routes, so many different um, you know, parking restrictions, and you know, I know that um deputy superintendent Humphreys and I have spoken directly about just sort of making there be just a couple different routes and having it be a little more predictable for residents.

Um I did want to ask who pays for the details for those road races.

Is that are the groups that are creating, you know, that are running, you know, that have set up of 5k or 10k are they paying for the some not all, but in many instances we have what they call reimbursable overtime.

It's a memorandum of an agreement, and basically depending on the event.

Um, I believe they sit with our special events unit and also maybe the the folks in City Hall in that issue the permit for the special event to determine how many officers and supervisors are needed, and basically they they uh built um and it's a receivable, it's a different code, it doesn't sit on fund 100, and we get reimbursed similar to the paid details, and we do charge a 10% admin fee.

Thank you.

Um yeah, I just think that um obviously a lot of these events are great, and you know, when you're running for a cause that people care about and it's your specific cause, it can be super exciting.

Um, but I think the whole corporate fun run, you know, situation that sometimes we're facing where the roads are shut down, people you know can't park where they usually park.

Um, you know, it create does create you know a culture of feeling like you you live in a neighborhood, but your neighborhood isn't always yours.

So um I obviously know there's a um you know there's a limitation to that, but um, and obviously when you care about the cause, you know, it's exciting, but um, but I do just want to thank Sarge uh Deputy Superintendent Humphreys for all of his work on this because I do feel like we have a ear in the police department and just making sure that residents are you know at the top of the list.

Um and I have advocated for some roads to be shut down during Halloween and other things, and there's been some conversations because, you know, historically, um, so I want to thank your department for always working with me on Marlborough Street, um, and those traditions of the neighborhood that in the back bay that make uh make a big difference, um, and you know, security and safety and beacon hill, especially especially for Halloween.

Um, those are areas where we've really worked collaboratively, and I just want to thank the department for um and the and our captains for working with us on that.

Um, so that's really helpful to know.

I I definitely would advocate for all these fun runs, charities, nonprofits for there to, you know, because there is an impact on neighbors, I do think they should be paying for the details associated with these um with these runs.

Um so um obviously mental health has been a huge issue for me.

So I'm really um proud and grateful that our police department is prioritizing officers' mental health.

Um, my sister was a police officer, and I know the toll that it can take on families.

Um, and you know, even when something happens to an officer, just the toll that it can take.

Um, so I'm just proud and grateful for your um organization's leadership on mental health.

I do think that we need you know, we could all we always need to do more, and but proud to hear that um I I do think the most recent uh police contract um I I think really prioritizes officers' safety and well-being, and I think I was proud to support that, and I think as we are moving, it's like there's always the next level of how we can support people who are going through very traumatic work settings.

Um, but just my own family experience.

I want to thank all the officers that work really hard to um, you know, to to when they get home to take off, you know, you know, what they've dealt with all day.

Um, but I I think as a department, um, you know, we can always be doing more.

So thank you.

Um, and I do have a special shout out for Z, he saved my bike.

Uh my bike went missing.

Many of you heard um it was cut off of City Hall Plaza because it someone stole the front tire, and Z went to work.

He he really was a sleuth and he found the bike in a back room.

So I'm grateful to Z for I got to ride my bike today because um because he found my bike in the back room, so um, I don't really have any more questions.

Uh, I guess I'll wait for the second round.

And thank you, um, Chair for your questions about um the overtime because I I had never gotten the clarification of where the money was going for paid um for reimbursed details, so thank you.

Thank you.

Um, just I think it's uh Counselor Louie Jim.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair, and thank you again to this panel um for questions this morning.

This morning I did ask a lot of questions on overtime.

Um, and so uh most of my questions on overtime were answered then.

But I do Council Bapen mentioned the civilian flagger program, and that's something that we adopted here on the Boston City Council three years ago.

And so I'm wondering, um, it seems like we are still far away from sort of what the community asked was for, which was civilian flaggers, that there are a number of people who will be eligible for these paid details prior to being able to civilianize why is that and um why has it taken so long for us to I understand that you mentioned customization, but how much of a priority has this been for the police department because it's something that we have been, you know, it's been a few years now since this body has approved it, and since it was, I know it was a matter of contract negotiations as well.

Yeah, and it has been a while, there's no doubt about that.

Um, as I'm sure the patrol machine would have a comment of say, um part of the issue is it's new.

This is new anytime you do something new, uh, whether it's an agency or anything, it just uh it just takes a second or two to understand what's going into it.

And it's also new technology that we're applying.

Uh, and so we're kind of dependent on the company that won the bid to implement the technology with our contract and all our all our different um you know things within our contracts to make sure it can it can meet our needs.

And so I think the company was, you know, uh struggling a little bit at first, and so we've been trying to work to make sure that it meets the needs of of both the uh the contract and what we needed to do.

And so that's been primarily how long ago I mean what the time has been around, so some of this stuff uh in general, and but we're trying to you know we're we're near the near the end now and so once we actually get it up and running the other agencies the other public safety agencies as we bring them on those are different people and agencies so we just want to make it and which ones are those because they have they will have priority over civilians in terms of accessing these details and why why is that again I'm I don't think that's what was contractually under the BPA okay because of public safety uh in the in the same field and so um because they don't work with us it you know you you know aligning rules and making sure that they can be implemented into the system um is something we need to do and then the next group the same way and then of course when we get to surveyance that will be the same thing that we would need to do because there'll be another unique group of people and so as we go along we're gonna learn and and each segment should get quicker and quicker because we should be getting better and better at it.

Are we learning I mean we are not the first city to try to have a civilian flagger program are we looking to the other models that exist across the country to learn from them to maybe help us pick up the pace.

Again it remember this is the technology base and so we agree with someone to implement the technology around some of that and then and that's actually part of the the process of which we use I guess every city is different.

Every contract is different what's asked of people are different and so you know in the Northeast here we're we're certainly it's a very unionized place and we have a lot of rules a lot more rules than other places but maybe on the west coast or places where there's a right to work state they don't have as many rules around some of that stuff.

So we're working through it it's it's something we've been actively been trying to do it's not something we wanted to take this long but the fact is it has taken this long and we apologize for that but the fact is we're trying to hurry up and get it done.

What percentage of details right now are being fulfilled because that was part of the issue beforehand right we weren't even able with the current we were yeah able to fulfill the details but since then I think the rate has gone up significantly yes um detail field rates in fiscal year 25 went as high as 80 percent and currently the detail field rates is at 80 percent fiscal year 26 year date.

And what accounts for that increase?

Probably for fear of losing I mean just wanting uh like is it a in part a desire to show that that is something that the department wants no so um it we're we there's no doubt I told you we're we're reimagining how we deploy overtime and make sure we address it.

And so you know there's no overtime so officers now have more free time details can only be done when they're off and so they're not being ordered as much which should show up in our overtime rate and so some of them might be availing themselves to details more because they're now able to do details more because they're actually off more because we're no longer mandating that they work as much I would imagine that's where we're some of it may be coming from and also the detail rate is is currently you know um enhanced in the last contract as well.

Wouldn't that imply a decrease in overtime spending yes and so year to year that's what we're seeing I mean because my understanding is that is actually one of the driving forces behind why we are why we underprojected for this fiscal year.

Because of overtime under I don't know I you mean that overtime is because of the detail no no it's actually not a detailed question it's about spending on overtime so basically you said the are the the number the percentage of details that police officers are fulfilling is been increasing and that's in part because over like over time has been you've been reimagining the use of overtime.

Not use of opportunity opportunity.

We are not all right, okay.

So that makes sense.

So opportunity is declining, but the cost bet the amount of money spent on overtime is has been increasing.

No.

No.

It's been decreasing.

Decreasing from this year to last year.

I think that this would be the third year in a row that overtime is decreased.

Because of the reimagining of overtime.

Because of what we do to try to make sure that we manage it much better and actually make sure officers have time off.

Thank you.

And I know we talked about this when I asked earlier, and I believe my colleagues have asked about it before.

The reimagining of overtime also involves reimagining how we're using police officers at these special events, like open streets, like festivals.

If you could talk a little bit more about that to make sure that we have the right amount of police officers at these events, but to also make sure that we are not sort of over policing certain events or having more of a law enforcement presence when necessary.

And how do you sort of strike that balance?

Yeah, so I mean, this is where, you know, certainly our Boston Regional Intelligence Center is so helpful because it's all based on you know what's going on in the world.

Uh, if we think we need more public safety just because we have information or belief that it might be, then that might increase our level of uh police or public safety in that area in places where if there's no known threats or no known uh issues that we're aware of, and we can actually you know block streets and things that nature through barriers and other means, then we try to do that without having as many police officers.

It's basically we have to look at each individual event and customize our response to it.

It takes a lot more work administratively, supervisory-wise, but the fact is when you do it, we're able to deploy people in a much better way around that.

I think in the past it was more cookie cutter.

We had an event, this is what we did.

It took this many to do this.

We don't do that any longer.

Now we try to look at each event and customize how we deploy people for that.

Thank you.

I appreciate that because I also you know think it's important that we're able to celebrate and that we're able to allow people in neighborhoods to celebrate.

And I think sort of part of the work in being able to do that is also recalibrating sort of what we believe is the right amount of first responder, you know, law enforcement presence at these events that sort of hits that target.

So I appreciate the work the department is doing to really evaluate what is necessary.

Um speaking of that, we obviously have uh some major events coming up, and I know one of the things that we were certain we were hoping to do is get reimbursed from the federal government for certain um uh uh law enforcement um uh activity.

Can you talk about sort of where that stands?

What uh because it means that will also have an impact on the budget as well.

Yeah, please.

So thank you for the question.

Um so we've availed ourselves of several uh grant opportunities, both state and federal to support costs.

The first was a federal grant that the police department's personnel and equipment requests were submitted on behalf of the city as a whole, so it included other public safety and various departments out of that grant.

We're anticipating a little over 10 million dollars in funding to support personnel related expenses.

We also have a state grant application currently pending that intends to supplement the personnel cost, but also add additional support for equipment, specifically the barriers that we've talked a lot about that help secure perimeters uh in lieu of having officers at each of those locations.

So as opportunities have come up, we continue to submit applications to make sure that we're covering as much of those necessary expenses as we can.

Thank you, and it might be premature, but do you have a sense of what percentage of the actual costs?

You know, let's say you you have the 10 million you're able to secure more, how much that will cover.

I think it's too early to tell us we continue to finalize the other plans.

Then my last question is have you ever thought about um has the department thought about whether it would ever make sense to do like a cap on overtime for police officers, individual police officers, and then a related question is something that this council has asked for over and over again is the understanding of like what the staffing minimums are for um each station, and so I'd love to be able to get that information so formally through the chair, I'd like us to finally be able to sort of understand what the staffing minimums are, and then the question about whether or not overtime uh there's ever been a consideration to cap overtime on individual officers.

Yeah, and they do.

They are capped by the number of hours they can work in a day or around that.

Um, so I I'd say this capping overtime for overtime's sake.

I mean, like I said, they can't work more than you know sixteen hours to change.

The two shifts.

Um it has to go with need.

So you know, we have pretty major events.

We we could have unexpected events.

Uh, you know, I just think of the marathon bombing, there were people working many, many hours around that.

So uh it's not we are very cognizant of the impact it has on officers the hours they work.

We're trying to reduce that as much as possible.

Um but we're in the business of public safety, right?

So on the on the admin side, we control how many they work, so we're trying to do all we can to reduce it, and I think history is now showing we're reducing it each year.

Um I don't know if additional caps would really be necessary when we're already um doing that in some way.

And I'm not saying that because we want to not spin the money.

The fact is we want to always have the option to deal with a public safety need right then and there without uh putting handicaps on ourselves for any reason.

Thank you.

Same question for Antio.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much, Counselor Santana.

Excuse me.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you again to our panelists for being here with us this afternoon.

Um I mean, that's you can use I know you commissioner you just talked about for the third year in a row um overtime.

Um projected this year, yes.

So, two years in a row, and then this year it's projected to be um decreasing.

Um can you explain just why then the old I think one of the biggest drivers of your increase in budget has been overtime, but over the last few years has decreased.

So, why is the overall budget still increasing?

Well, it was increased because the contract, right?

The salary increased it, as as I think Lisa explained the hours have actually you know decreased, but the actual you know cost to those hours have increased, which means our budget co-op.

Okay, no, that makes sense.

Thank you, Commissioner.

And then uh I know some of my colleagues have touched on um, you know, I think some of the festivals and parades um that happened especially throughout the summer.

Are those considered um are those organizations?

Let's just take for example, I do a lot with the Dominican Parade.

They've been, and I know Counselor Papaton as well and customer here, when when that time comes, they usually ask us for more police presence.

Um in the uh in the parade itself and in the festival afterwards, um, and usually that request gets declined um in terms of more uh presence.

What goes into those uh those decisions?

And are are those organizations paying for the detail, or is that coming out of so um it again it goes to special events, and so they do pay for certainly some details, but uh depending on the event, um we might have to provide more additional officers than what the events may cover.

We don't have any numbers on that.

Uh you know, some of these events, and I'll say perfect example is you know how we look at some of them.

The Caribbean festival used to be particularly the JV event that they had, we moved it from Franklin Park to I mean from um Franklin Field to the back of Franklin Park.

Uh uh, it was a it went a lot better, and and we were actually you know able to address many of the public safety needs associated with it.

Again, so as we look to the events, we're trying to really really look to see how can we do it uh and and provide really good public safety so everyone is safe, but yet not have to drive up the overtime associated with it, right?

So, and so working with people who have the events is really important, listening, having conversations about what happens.

Um, but we're not the only people in those conversations, and again, you know, we're part of the process, but we're not the the final say in in that.

And who is the final say there, Commissioner?

So it's the special events.

So okay, yeah.

Okay.

Um this is kind of a random question, but I mean, some of these uh parking lots, even right here on Congress Street, they hire um police detail because they have people stop the cars for them to come out.

I mean, why uh do you know what I'm talking about?

Or yeah, yes.

Um is your question, is that a bad or a good thing?

What's what's the question?

Well, I don't I don't have a it's more of like so people are driving, and then the police veto comes out and stops everyone from why do they get priority?

Well, I think what they're doing is it's for public safety, so you have a lot of people coming out of certain places and they're trying to get out of the garage and cars aren't letting them at some point people get frustrated and they'll they'll you know cause accidents, fights, road rage, things of that nature.

So really they are to keep the peace, right?

To help people um to leave uh orderly.

Um it's not only there, it's Fenway Park.

There's a lot of places.

Yeah, yeah, I was just saying here because it's also they do that.

And without it, um, you get very frustrated people and uh and they act in a certain way, and if there's no public safety there, sometimes uh you get uh activity that no one wants.

No, I understand that.

Do you also see the other side of people who are waiting in traffic?

I think everyone's waiting in traffic, right?

Well, you might bring up a good point now.

Maybe we should have some more make sure that we're we're supervising some of the events to make sure that it's appropriate that we're not there just to empty out a garage while everybody on the street.

And that's the thing there's a balance there.

I think it is.

There is a balance.

As of right now, I think it's just like if there's a car coming out of the garage, they stop everyone.

So you're the first person I've heard say that, so that's something for us to look at.

Public feedback is extremely important.

If you don't give us feedback, we won't even know that that's it that exists.

So we can actually look into it, maybe address that.

All right, thank you.

Um commissioner.

Um can you break down the numbers between uh or how many how many civilians actually do we have who work detail on an annual basis?

Zero.

Um and do we have any consideration or plans that uh of having maybe civilians play part of that role?

Yeah, so that's the process that we just talked about.

Once this is up and running, um there are other public safeties that are going to be included, not Boston police, other public safety entities as well, and then civilians will be added to it.

Um then going back to detail, you you said that it was a small fee that the city um gets.

Who makes the decision of how how the admin fee?

Um, it's the state law.

This is actually a mass general law that says it's capped at 10%.

It's it's so someone it's cap at 10%.

So that's the most that's they can pay.

So usually that means it's below temperature.

Most of them are below temperature.

I mean, everyone that's we don't charge the admin fee for governmental to governmental.

Yep, yep, that makes sense.

Um we will we always charge 10%.

We don't charge anything less or over, but but per law, the cap is 10%.

So it then that's the state that makes that decision, is it?

So we wouldn't be able to, or nor you would be able to either increase or decrease that that percentage.

No.

Okay.

Um, and then I think for uh I got 30 seconds.

Um I think that's what my colleagues asked about just recruitment.

Um, I think we all see, I mean, I uh the I think the police force looks a lot more reflective of the city of Boston than it did even I think 10 years ago.

I know I have personally childhood friends who are now um police officers in in the force.

Um what's the biggest um the what have you seen the biggest success in terms of recruitment and making sure that our our kids, our Boston public kids um have access to to these careers?

Yeah, so the cadet program is is really important to bring folks on, but uh more recently just um you know just having access to more people in the city who who want to take the test.

I think people just shouldn't really understand uh the steps it takes to sign up for the exam.

You can't just come on our job, you have to take that exam first.

So we've done a lot of uh a lot to make sure people understand that the exam is the first process that you have to sign up and be a part of it.

Uh and we've had contributions from the Celtics from other places, Jumbo Tron, but being able to post uh our information out uh more and more uh and just really putting the word out in in general, just uh saying that this is a this is a job where you can you know you can you know make a a fair living and take care of yourself, and we're looking for more importantly people who are from our city uh to police our city.

I think it's extremely important.

I like so I love seeing the young people who are police officers and I also like seeing multilingual police officers who are in our neighborhoods um so we'd love to see that recruitment um success uh continue.

Thank you Mr.

Chairman thank you and just for anyone who signed up for public testimony we are planning on doing that after our first round of questions so we've got two two count two and a half counselors left uh before we have a the public testimony and then we'll go for a second round of questions uh from that me yeah okay um of course uh uh so counselor braden.

Thank you Mr.

Chair and good afternoon everyone again um I had a question from this morning on my list but uh I see um in the operating the Bureau of Professional Development had a hundred percent decrease so it was wiped out and then the Bureau of Professional Standards had an increase is that is the money from Bureau of Professional Development rolled into rolled into professional standards or or how um the commissioner had done some restructuring to the bureaus in the the academy in the range now is considered bureau professional standards in development okay so and then um you'll see an increase in the Bureau of Field Service because 911 operations um rolled under Bureau of Administration and technology they now have since moved into the Bureau of Field Services which makes sense because they're in first contract with contact with our patrol office.

They are the ones receiving the the calls coming in through 911.

Excellent and um then the other question I had was there seemed to be a notable cut in supplies materials and equipment um I was just wondering what exactly had been eliminated and and would would there be any impact on operational readiness by what those cuts um I think that some of the reductions made in our budget was basically based on our actual run rate so if they saw areas where there were some favorability they they might have level funded and also at the same time if they saw where we might have been negative in some lines they they level fund that up so to kind of make up make us um equal.

Excellent and then um I was just wondering in terms of transportation my colleague Concert Pepin is very always very interested in safety and trans um road safety um how is the uh the department coordinating with uh the transportation department and and vision zero uh to target enforcement areas for high crash and high accident rates are are we are we working on that yeah and so I you know even at ComStat uh we that's a statistic we put up around the most frequent um crash locations and the captains uh you know actually report out what they've done to actually address some of the places where you see uh the motor vehicle access is it's something that's a stat that we keep up on it not only that then we look to see if we're making a dent around it because they can move location um but it is something we track and we do work with with you know transportation all the time.

Excellent and then um I think many of my questions have already been asked since I lit in the line here but uh I was just wondering in terms of um what in terms of officers mental health what sort of support you're provided after critical incidents in terms of their you know being able to recover and get back in like debrief and things like that.

Debriefing and and after critical incidents.

Yeah and again we um we do do debriefing uh we do have our peer support that works with um certainly uh officers and things that nature um you know critical incidents are really really tough in in general and it's it's it's shouldn't be a one and done and that's why our peer support is so important making sure that uh um officers wellness is uh addressed and making sure that they have access to you know mental health professionals if they avail themselves to it and more importantly talking to them so that they know that it's okay to do that.

And so uh I talked a little bit before about we now have a you know a wellness app to help address some of those things and um and you know uh I'm not doing justice to all the different things that we try to do uh for it, but well what we try is probably still not enough by any means uh for that matter.

It's it's an incredibly tough job, and you know we we should try to find as many ways as possible to make sure that um that we support the officers as they support all the citizens in the work that they do daily, and um are there new investments in wellness uh included in the new budget, or you know, things change, different approaches to different things.

Are there new any new initiatives in terms of officer wellness?

Yes, so it contractually, I said this a little early, I'm sorry, I feel like myself a little um in the in the budget.

Uh I mean, in like the most recent contract with the patrolmage union, there's uh a wellness time 30 minutes a day that the officers can avail themselves to for you know workout or um you know wellness or uh things that you know that that's well, which is really designed for them to be able to do that on a daily basis.

That's certainly new um uh for them to be able to do that on duty.

Uh and and there are like I said, um there's some other things that we do.

We have a police foundation that contributes some funds to us to try to uh give officers access to uh health care professionals uh whether it's seminars or or one-day events or or just check-ins in general.

Um, we'd love to do it a lot more, but we are trying to be inventive and trying to do as much as we can with what we have.

Good, we still have some time on the clock.

Oh, no.

Um I I've been sitting in this chair with these hearings for six years now, and I was just wondering when we talk about overtime in years gone by, we had a lot of folks who were out on sort of long-term sick leave, and we had a high level of replacement um hours.

Um, how how does that look now and what sort of progress are we making on that?

Um replacement costs has gone down considerably actually right now, yeah.

Compared to where we were last year, but I want to also repeat that where we were last year, we were down in replacement costs as well.

Um, our rock health restructured, we added some more medical providers, and at one point, maybe right after 2020, we might have been almost upwards of 300 officers out injured, which really drove our replacement costs pretty high.

Right now we're at 58 officers around injured.

It's amazing that that's the amount of offices we have in Jadetta.

That's good.

It probably is an indication that folks who need, as my colleague Council Flaherty used to always say, What about chiropractic services or whatever?

He always was pushing to make sure that officers got timely intervention so that they could recover quickly and uh get back on the job.

Um then are there are there controls in place to prevent unnecessary or duplicative overtime?

Duplicate overtime, I I I and just in terms of are you talking like corruption, where in a sense?

I wouldn't say corruption, that's a strong word, but no, just um unnecessary over time, like let's say it that way.

Yes, absolutely.

Again, um we've been re reducing over time in general, but we absolutely look to make sure that you know it's needed um before any event or even before it's assigned the first question.

Now we're asking is is it necessary?

What is it tied to, and can we do it on regular duty?

Yeah, and I think your one size going away from the cookie cutter one size fits all into a more nuanced and individualized approach.

Which takes a lot more effort, I'm sure it does.

There's a lot more, particularly for our command staff and some are uh you know, with captains in general, it takes a lot more work to do it that way.

Very good.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Good to see you again this morning, Mr.

Commissioner and your command staff.

Um with regard to mental health and how dispatchers handle mental health calls.

Are the dispatchers trained in some way mental health to be able to identify that when someone calls, they're having a mental health episode that that person is having mental health issues?

And so I I know it at one point I used to actually run the 911 unit.

They were exposed certainly to mental health uh calls.

Um but we share it also with EMS.

So if it's a medical call, we we actually transfer the call to EMS directly if if known.

Uh if the call is somehow disguised in another call, like a public safety call, like a violence call or what have you.

Um they ask a series of questions to try to figure out what the heck is going on, to be quite honest with you, because that's half of the battle to make sure you send the appropriate people.

What kind of mental health training is required before they're hired as a dispatcher?

Dispatch.

So I I don't have it before me, but um they have to go through what they call state 911 required um training up there, each and every dispatcher, um, because to be quite honest, the it's a state system, and so they set the standards for um uh their training requirements, and so all the dispatchers, I think at least for the other.

I mean the Boston police, do the Boston police have a requirement of certain training for the dispatchers that you hire?

I'm not talking about the state.

Yes.

What I'm saying is our 911 system is actually a state system that we are just kind of like think of the McDonald's.

Well, the state is the the Mr.

McDonald's, and we're one of the franchises for it, because the 9-1 system works the same throughout the entire state, so this training is the same for everyone.

I understand, but do the Boston police have a specific requirement of mental health training for the dispatchers that you hire?

I'm not talking about the state, I'm talking about the Boston police requirement.

Yeah, yeah, it is part of their training curriculum.

I yes.

To answer your question, the state requires certain things.

When I say the state, our system, everything is trained through through the code.

But here's my question.

Does the Boston Police Department before you hire someone for a dispatcher's job look to see whether they meet the Boston Police Department's requirement for mental health training?

Not the state now.

Um, if you don't order to be a call taker at our place, you have to pass, you have to be certified and you have to take a certain number of courses that are sanctioned through the state because they actually are the standard maker for all 911.

No, I understand that.

So you don't have a specific Boston Police Department certification requirement to be a dispatcher with regard to mental health calls?

So like the full five, for the full five, I really didn't want to get into full five, but you have well as the curriculum for our folks that probably go beyond what the state requires.

Okay.

I just don't have that.

That's what I mean when you get a chance.

Yeah, get it to us.

I want to look at that, okay?

That's what I was talking about.

The other thing is, and you may not have been here with that guarantee consent decree, but since that guarantee consent decree was dissolved, how has the hiring of minorities either gone up or gone down?

You may not have that today.

Yeah, but can you look at that and get back to us with that so we can see exactly what happened once that decree was dissolved?

Okay.

Okay.

The other thing, I'm trying to understand details versus overtime.

So if someone is on a detail that's privately paid, are they being paid over time by the department?

Yeah.

Or they're being paid by the private person who hires that Boston police officer.

A detail is basically a private vendor who's who's paying uh the police uh for public safety, and the officers are doing are on their own time, right?

They're not on regular time, they're on a day off of some type.

And so I I heard you say earlier that the money that the private company paid goes into the city's coffers, right?

Not to the B.

It's basically, excuse me, it's basically reimbursing the city for because they pay the officers directly.

Oh, they do.

And we we build the um companies accordingly.

They see a receivable setup on the city's books, and then obviously when the funds come in, um they get reimbursed, it goes against the receivables that's being held on the city's books.

And if it's a non-municipality, the 10% admin fee goes right into the general fund 100.

And how are the details determined?

How does it determine who gets a detail?

It's a little man on the totem pole.

Contractual, yeah, it's the lowest hours.

I want to ask a question with regard to AI, whether AI is being used, whether it's a digital digital forensic analysis, whether it's a facial recognition, whether it's the age progression, or the genetic genealogy, whether that's used in the unsolved murder cases with regard to AI.

Specifically AI, I know.

Um, I've seen a lot of products, I've I've had uh vendors reach out and you know, want to show us uh products that will go back into cold cases, analyze an entire case file, scan it, analyze it, and then you know, have the ability, according to the technology, to you know, to give you potential suspects, uh rank suspects, uh give you potential leads, things like that.

Um, we have not looked into purchasing any of that yet.

I think it's kind of early.

I think some of that stuff is a little bit um concerning, at least in the in its infancy.

So I I would say that those that technologies out there, um, it's worth looking at, but I think I think it's still pretty early to do that.

Uh as far as far as forensic genealogy, I mean, we do quite a bit of work using forensic genealogy, but not necessarily uh AI enabled.

Um it's done basically the old-fashioned way by uh people building out a family tree and then building towards a potential suspect.

I would encourage you to look at that.

Looked at what some of the other cities have used it for, and they've had some pretty good results in terms of old, old unsolved homicides.

Right.

I did have one last question.

Um, with regard to the mental health issue, and so has there been any discussion with regard to number one, a mental health unit.

Uh, and I say that with regard to the dispatcher question I asked earlier about the mental health training, so that if someone is a dispatcher and they identify a caller as having a mental health episode, what's the result and whether there are there's a mental health unit that when there's an identification that a person is having a mental health episode, whether the dispatcher can point to a unit that's trained professionally to handle mental health cases, whether it's all non-police officers or whether there's a uh trained mental health unit that consists of police officers, so traditionally what we try to do at 911 is handle public safety threats is something that they're not concerned.

If we believe it's a medical or mental health related caller from the very beginning, EMS who who sits right next to us right in the same um building uh would handle that call as far as trying to um deal with the mental health.

EMS would handle the mental health issue uh as far as the call with concern.

So, you know, depending on the nature of the call, so you know, it's this is fairly complicated, some and some somewhat sophisticated in the sense that you could be having a mental health you know prices, but yet you can still be a public safety risk.

Right, right.

I can have a gun, I can have a knife, I can have a bat, I could be trying to attack someone.

That's a public safety risk.

So that's going to always elicit a police response.

Um but the fact is we have a co-response where we have best team clinicians that can come with us to to go to that, and and you know, we have an example of that in a recent you know very recently.

Um, so it it's very difficult uh to say because most calls we get, you don't know what it is for because sometimes people have a hard time articulating exactly what's going on uh in in general, and you don't know until you show up.

That's why it's always important for our personnel, regardless of who else is in the space of uh you know mental health and what's going on, that our offices need to be able to recognize it.

So if we do show up to something because not everyone tells us that they're having a mental health issue when they call us, it might be in the under a disguise of something else, right?

And then we get there and we realize it.

Um, and then now we have to call other people, but things happen very, very fast sometimes.

So uh it is a it's a space where we always probably do have to have some level of of training and guidance about identifying it, but we need tremendous partnership on people who are in that space to come with us to those calls to help deal with it.

We we're having a mental health crisis in general.

It seems to be more and more calls, more and more places, more and more people uh around that, and so we're we're seeing it in many different forms, Mr.

Chairman.

My colleagues, uh I have one more question.

If there's a third round, there'll be a second round of before the third round, but okay, and we're gonna have uh public testimony, and then we're gonna come back for a second round.

Uh, just uh so I have a couple questions.

Um we've managed to bring down the overtime hours last.

I think is it three years in a row or two years in a row?

Okay, so I had like 1.4 million hours of overtime maybe three years ago to 1.2 to 1.1, and if we run the same uh with the number of events going up, yeah.

So you obviously you're you're you know, you're uh focusing on the issue, and while the amount we pay hasn't gone down because of the increases, it's almost like with increases we better bring the number of hours down, or else that amount we pay is gonna skyrocket.

Is that do you have that?

Are you saying because the number of the pay we have to bring the numbers down?

Because the because pay increases from year to year if we didn't uh do anything to I wouldn't frame it that way.

I would frame it is that the fact is is that you know it's for the health and wellness of our officers, you know, the if they want to work over time because or detailed because they choose, that should be their choice.

It shouldn't be mandatory, which is what we were making things just to be able to deal with certain things.

Um, you know, we are a major city uh in in this country, and it's a place where people want to come.

There's a lot of events, and we have more and more events that happen, and so um we have to be invented inventive with the number of staff that we have to be able to provide tremendous public safety, which we provide in the way that we do with the numbers that we have.

And so we are being as inventive as we can to address the public safety need with the tremendous personnel that we have, and so yeah, no, and in terms of like without burning people out, yeah, yes, those and providing good public safety, which is a tremendous balance.

Yeah, uh, and so I think I I heard on one special event maybe it was like 11,000 hours, and you said uh it was about 900, 900,000 dollars in overtime costs.

Like, so for mass and cash, you know, we looked at 160,000 hours last couple years this year, we're looking projected around 130,000 hours of overtime.

That I think it was over 10 million, right?

Uh, and uh I don't know how much gets saved if that's worked, but not overtime.

Do you uh you know, obviously you have to pay people the their standard hours.

Uh and so my I guess my question for you for you, Commissioner Cox, is that to me it's like that is just work why we've had a special event that's gone on for four years.

Uh it it's have you thought about reclassifying that as just standard work?

Is that not possible?

Is that dictated by the CBA?

Just walk me through that because it seems like a way with just you know, reclassifying as just standard work time.

I'm not no arguments about how you're staffing it or what people are doing, just uh, I mean, the goal of everything that we do is incremental improvement, and massive cases gotten better every year.

Um, and so it's changed, right?

From the TARP TARPs and tents and things that we had with the encampments and the a lot of stuff that was going on, um, our footprint there was far different than it is over there today.

So, you know, as we evolve and we are evolving and getting better.

Our services in that area are going to change, and we're also looking on how we do things in general.

And so maybe the goal is one day we we don't need any uh additional police over there, and that's the hope, but you know, we are trying to be as efficient and effective as possible, but it's kind of hard to say because things have changed, right?

We have a new a new law, a new ordinance, we have to do certain things around it.

Um mass and cast today could be another section uh of the city or another problem in general later on, and so um, I mean, so my understanding is that it's it's partly a special event because it crosses several district lines.

Maybe that's that's wrong.

I mean, I I'm just it's 160,000, 130,000 hours.

I think it's still the largest single source of overtime in our in our all, you know, 1.1 million hours.

Like why not look at just you know assigning people to work there?

We need the obviously they they have an impact, and I'm not getting to debate about it.

We actually are doing so part of the um reduction in overtime is just what I said before about we're looking at everything to try to see can we do it on duty?

And we've been doing those, uh, and that's the incremental success that you're seeing around that, um, getting more away from from the the you know overtime just for a special event versus how can we create uh people on duty to address these things.

Okay, and then is there just like a back of the envelope calculation?

If that 130,000 hours was just on duty time instead of overtime, what's the cost difference?

So there's a different kind of cost.

So remember, depending on the history of it.

Is there a cost difference?

I guess would be the first question.

Depending on what time in history you're talking about, those those personnel that are over there, that means then they're not in some other part of the city.

That means that they're not in some neighborhood, that means they're not someplace else, right?

There could be a cost associated with that, and I don't mean monetary cost around public safety.

So it's hard to do that.

Remember, so you're not sure.

So correct.

Well, right, mass and cast is it's been different.

It's throughout time, it's looked different, and it's getting better each year, so we're able to shift, change, and address the issues over there as a result of that.

Um there's a cost to everything, uh, unfortunately.

Yeah, and and the good thing is I think the area is that particular area is getting better.

Now we have some other, you know, movement that we have to make sure we address, and we're trying to address that as well.

Um, but there's cost associated with it.

So without increasing, and and this is what Council Flynn brings up often, um, you know, to create a whole new space just around mass and cast or on duty people, we probably need a lot more people.

So we're pulling from different places to address an issue.

Okay, and we're doing it as inventively as we can without overburdening the officers.

Just before my time runs out, in terms of like Councillor Braden brought up this question about being paid for multiple things at the same time, and she she focused on fraud.

I'm not I'm more focused on the you know the collector bargaining agreement, and I know uh I think Yahoo Miller was here.

He in the past he's reported on people who are getting paid court overtime, but are also getting paid for because they're not they they show up to court, they're done, they get the four-hour minimum, they're working somewhere else.

I just asked you to address that, and in the collective bargaining agreement that you guys worked out, there's a sense that I just I don't understand how that this works.

It just says for details of detail pay, it can overlap for a maximum of two hours.

Uh and I'm you know uh I I can just I can read it out, it's right here.

Uh and it just it says detail pay may overlap with regular shift pay by a maximum of two hours.

And so I'm just again like getting paid.

Are those are people who are working?

If they're working on a detail, are they getting paid to be doing a walking beat somewhere else where they're uh how does that work?

Just uh again?

Um, so I I think it's it's the the ability to to have a slight overlap is to allow an officer to finish their shift and then potentially still be available to take a job so that we're filling those those detail assignments as needed to allow that work to continue safely.

And it's uh it's with the contract.

So that's the reason for the for the ability to have the okay.

And then um just any uh like uh is there any other area where you could potentially get paid to be doing two things simultaneously.

Not that I'm aware of and then it really it was like it's a you're talking about a 15 minute window, um, you know, just because one of the shifts are around 11 45 to like midnight or whatever the deal is.

So um no, there's really you know overlap that we can think of.

Okay, okay, uh, we're gonna that's gonna wrap up the first round.

Sorry, we're gonna go to public testimony.

Um I have uh is I have Lawrence Brown, John Smith St.

Sear, West Ward, uh Sakani Rollins and Sean Nelson.

We each have two minutes.

Uh I don't know, I don't see if Lawrence Brown.

Oh no, uh so if for public testimonies, there's two microphones over here.

Uh pick a microphone.

Uh they both work uh and just get close to it.

And uh you whenever you're ready, tell us your name, uh where you're from, uh and you'll have two minutes.

All right, so my name is Lawrence Brown.

I grew up in South End, Villa Victoria, but I'm here representing black and brown areas of the city, but the whole set the whole city because we all have to deal with the police.

But I find it funny that they could uh like ask for more money and find more money for the uh for the police overtime, but not for schools or for other things going on in our our areas.

B3, B2, and uh I had a lot to say, but I see we only have two minutes, so I don't want to I want to get a couple things out.

Um community policing.

I don't know, we have a difference of opinion on what it is or how they see it, because like a whole car full of white guys riding through and the windows are blacked out is not it's an intimidating presence.

It's not something that's like we would like to work with these people to make the community better.

Not something that feels like uh a welcome presence from them.

And um the only time we really be like meeting these guys that's in these cars, the the we uh refer to them as black car or gray car, because we don't know who these people even are, and they're in the community all the time, uh like riding around, just intimidating people, that's really what it is, and uh I'm cordial with a few because they haven't violated it in front of me yet, but they still let their partners do get away with things that allegedly they tell them behind closed doors not to do those things, but when it's out in the open, they don't really they don't mind.

And uh hold on one second in the flag waivers program um or what we was talking about that uh it there was something that was passed a while ago with Ed Davis company, former commissioner ended up getting one of the contracts to even do the flag waivers program, Elver and I think it's in Logan Airport right now, and uh no black or brown security companies were considered for any of these flag waivers contracts at all, and they have the necessary uh experience to do that.

But I don't want I don't know I had a lot.

I appreciate it if you just want to wrap it up, uh, yeah.

Uh uh well, just that like it they uh they tell the community to you know wait for the videos and stuff to come out about Stevenson King, but the president of the BPPA already supports him, which uh shows that he has that support already, but they want us to wait for video, but he didn't wait for video to come out to show his support for this guy, Nicholas O'Malley who murdered Stevenson King.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh we will have a public listening session Thursday, May 26th.

If you feel like you want to come back, you can testify.

Uh then great.

Uh John Smith St.

Sear.

How are you doing?

My name is John Smith Saint Seer, and I'm a Boston resident.

I was born and raised here.

Um, so first I just want to remind the council and everyone in attendance that we are not here for fireside chat with BPD.

We are here for a budget hearing.

So if we're going to discuss office and mental health or anything else, do we need to attach dollar signs to it?

Otherwise, we're not having a budget conversation.

We're just here chatted up.

First, I want to say Marcus Eddings was not an activist.

He was not an outsider.

He was a 30-year Boston police superintendent assigned to oversee paid details in court overtime.

According to his lawsuit filed in January of 2026, Eddings identified 43 offices connected to 693 paid detail fraud violations.

He identified 46 possible criminal violations involving 20 officers.

He also identified 647 rule violations involving 25 additional officers.

When he brought those findings forward, Commissioner Michael Cox allegedly said pursuing the investigations will give the department another black eye and hurt his legacy.

PPD is scared of a black eye, but residents should not be forced to pay for the department's image management.

PPD overtime is paid with tax dollars.

That is resident money.

It's not the city council's money, it's not the mayor's money.

In fiscal year 24, the city budgeted about 52 million dollars for police overtime.

BPD spent 112 million dollars.

In fiscal year 25, the city budgeted about 55 million dollars for police overtime.

BPD spent about 97 million dollars.

So yes, overtime spending decreased from fiscal year 24 to 25, but is that really the point?

The point is in just two years, the Boston Police Department went about 100 million dollars over its allocated overtime budget.

That is not fiscal discipline.

And I know the city council admires the Boston police.

Every year they sign off on a blank check.

So my question to the Boston Police Department is simple.

If you already know the city is going to cover your overtime orbitages, why not reallocate 20 million dollars to support community-serving programs?

It would not reduce overtime, it would not disrupt BPD operations, and based on how the city funds police overtime every year, it will have zero effect on the department.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, counselors, BPD, and the community of Boston.

I am Wes Ward.

I am a leader from Mattapan, and I represent the people.

I have been listening to the questions today, and it's clear that this council's head is in the wrong direction.

You're debating on how to spend $55 million on police overtime as if it's a law of nature.

But you are treating our youth like they are a budget luxury.

Let's be real about the math.

You are taking away $6 million from youth jobs that is allowing our youth to actually develop their future, and you're giving that money towards the police.

What you're telling the people is that you don't really benefit our neighborhoods.

Every dollar you are spending on police officers to stand idly on the corner or just chilling on their phones or just breaking through traffic lights.

You are telling me that you don't have enough money to spend on teenagers working a job to keep them off those same corners.

You are funding the reaction while cutting the prevention.

Now, this massive allocation of money, millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars for the police overtime, creates a subsidized occupation force where officers are paid to monitor neighborhoods like Matipan, like Roxbury, like Dorchester, black and brown neighborhoods that they are officing and that they're watching over us, and they're creating uh a problem in our community because you are giving kids a lack of discipline without having the money for these jobs.

These children are now gonna look for other things to do with their times, which is just gonna increase more potential crime, potential outings outside, which is just putting more black and brown faces behind the walls.

Now, if you're really trying to prevent and actually uplift our community, you will be putting that money towards the youth, be putting that money towards schools.

I see a lot of schools are closing.

Why isn't money going towards that?

But yet money is going towards the police that barely care about our people, care about our communities, the history that the police has had in Boston and in America.

Like, are we for real right now?

Don't tell me the city is broke.

I know that we have the money to fund these things.

Don't tell me that you don't have the time, don't tell me you don't have the energy to do so.

We need to put this money back towards the youth, back towards the communities and back towards the people.

I'm Westwood, I'm from Mattapane, I'm from Boston.

Thank you for your time.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Sukani Rollins.

My name is Sakai Rollins.

I'm a resident of District 4.

Um, since the mayor's proposed budget was released, I keep hearing that Boston's budget is unbalanced.

So let's actually talk about why.

Because one of the clearest drivers of this deficit is police overtime.

You keep pointing to a police overtime decrease, but even so, Boston is spending nearly 55 million on police overtime alone, with hundreds of officers making overtime that exceeds half of their salary, and nearly 200 officers making over 100,000 in overtime pay alone.

About two-thirds of Boston city departments operate on less money than the police overtime budget alone.

And then we're told there's not enough money for youth jobs, for housing, for food access, elder support, and programs that keep people alive.

And I think it says something that only two counselors stayed for the youth jobs hearing while this room has been nearly full of the for the police budget hearing.

Such a shame.

Let's be honest about what's happening.

Boston is not broke.

We are choosing to pour nearly half a billion dollars into policing, more than we invest in housing, public health, and youth jobs combined.

And now the mayor is proposing to increase it even further.

So when counselors ask where are we gonna get the money, the answer is right here.

It is in a police department that already has hundreds more officers than similarly sized cities.

While communities are being told to accept cuts to the very things that actually keep people safe.

Well, at the same time, this administration is cutting six million dollars, all of youth jobs for the school year.

So let's be honest about what that does.

When young people don't have jobs, when families cannot make meet their basic needs, people are pushed into survival.

And we're funding the exact system that then punishes those people for not being able to survive.

And we already know what prevention looks like.

The city's own data has shown that youth employment reduces crime by 35%.

Real safety does not come from policing.

So, yes, this budget is unbalanced, but not because the city doesn't have money.

It's because we're choosing to spend it on police while cutting what actually keeps us safe.

I'm asking that the council reject any increase to the police budget to restore the cuts to youth jobs, housing, food access, immigrant support, and elder services.

And there are clear places to cut.

Residents have identified them.

Police salaries, police overtime and brick, and also a hiring freeze, including canceling the 2027 police academy class.

Because the question is not whether Boston can afford to fund people's needs, it's whether the council is willing to choose them.

Okay, thank you.

Sean Nelson.

I agree with everybody else.

All you counselors come into the neighborhoods claiming about you're here for the youth, but you're allowing the mayor to cut their budget.

They will be out in the streets because they have nothing to go do.

I would throw a youth program through my high school, and I know it's important for a lot of these kids to start working as soon as possible.

And as well, the Boston police, you guys don't need that overtime.

I was over at Mass and Cast recording your officers sitting in their cars doing nothing.

Matter of fact, the homeless person tried to steal my phone and an officer saw it and they sat in this car and did nothing.

Now you even open this windows like what happened.

So a lot of you guys don't really need this overtime.

What you need to do is stop mismarrying this budget and wasting all this money.

We tax bars are not your piggy banks.

You need to start reeling in the mayor for our wasteful spending.

And that's where yesterday, one of you counselors called the Boston police to stop me recording a public meeting.

Now one of you counselors stood up from me, but yet you will talk about you're here for the black and brown people right there outside that door.

I have the right to record here.

I don't care what you're intimidated by me by a black man, but you need to get over it.

I am tired of all of you right now.

The mayor had no problem giving herself a 43,000 dollar rate that you all backed, and you all got your own raises as well.

Maybe we should start cutting the budget with your paychecks and the mayor and work the way down.

You need to stop working the city of Boston into the ground.

You are causing all these deficits.

Maybe stop fighting with Trump and all your TDS and stop doing what you're supposed to do so you get this federal funding.

Because all it really's doing is costing the city of Boston while you're sitting up there still getting your paychecks, everyone else is suffering.

Instead of cutting the program that we need, start cutting your own paychecks.

Because a lot of you are well getting overpaid.

$200,000 and more.

Thank you.

Okay.

We have one, I think that's it.

If anyone is here to testify and sign up on the sheet over there, we have one person online.

Uh Kate Crockford.

Kate, can you hear us?

Yes.

Hi, how's it going?

Good to see you all again.

Um, so appreciate the testimony that folks have given.

Um we all know that uh the overtime spending is totally out of control.

We've known this for a long time.

BPD spent over 100 million dollars on overtime in both 2024 and 2025, more than every other city department combined.

And I just want to note that a hundred million dollars is twice of the Boston Public Library's entire budget.

So that's the kind of, you know, scale of money that we're talking about here.

So that, you know, that blows a huge hole in the city budget, and this is not a new problem.

The city commissioned an audit, Mayor Walsh did um back uh in 2015, and it made recommendations, most of which the city has not implemented in the 10 plus years since.

The largest single named overtime expenditure, um, tens of millions of dollars over the past four years, is the permanent police operation targeting the homeless population in the area of mass and caste.

Of course, according to data, I've reviewed two-thirds of the drug arrests that are generated by that operation are for simple possession.

So, in other words, the city is paying overtime rates every day to arrest people for holding drugs.

Meanwhile, we're seeing sick assist calls in that area in particular surge year over year as the health crisis appears to be getting worse, not better.

So, um, I agree fully with what the commissioner said that we are not going to arrest our way out of the interlinked crises of homelessness and um public health issues like uh mental health and addiction.

But even though we keep saying that, we continue to hemorrhage money on precisely those arrests, arrests that actually endanger the vulnerable people that are being targeted by those operations.

So every year we have this conversation, we we hear a tale of two different overtime problems.

The union uh and some city counselors say that we have to hire more cops in order to reduce overtime spending.

But an analysis conducted by my office in 2021 found that in fact there's no correlation between more officers and less overtime spending.

And if you think about it, this makes sense intuitively because if the department doesn't change basic management problems related to appropriate staffing for vacation and sick leave, as it has begun to do for injury leave, which they should get credit for, and to adequately plan for on-duty coverage for normal policing, and I have to say, also expected events.

I mean, we know that certain things are gonna happen every year.

Adding more officers will not reduce overtime spending, it will actually increase it.

So I think we we need to be very clear about that.

And to my knowledge, the city has never commissioned an independent analysis of how many sworn officers it actually needs to avoid mandatory overtime.

No one has resolved this question, and until they do, the city is spending blindly at great cost to Boston residents.

So I think the city budgeting even a quarter of a million dollars to pay experts to study this question would yield significant savings in the future should officials actually follow the audit's recommendations and guidance.

And so I'll finish just by asking the council administration to do some concrete things to address this problem.

First, like I just said, commission an independent staffing study, and then crucially implement its recommendations.

Second, conduct a public cost-benefit analysis of the mass and caste and spill over homeless enforcement operations, looking at how much it costs to arrest, uh charge, detain, potentially prosecute someone compared to what that money could fund in housing and harm reduction and make that study public, and then third, conduct an independent evaluation looking at options for reducing BPD deployments in response to 911 calls for service, including by only sending police to fire calls when the fire department requests the police, as is done in some other cities instead of sending them out to every call automatically, and by exploring alternative responses for calls to service that don't involve violence.

Sorry, you maybe didn't hear the buzzer a while ago, but if you could just the final thing I'll say is that you know, we talk about mental health at uh as uh an alternative response as social justice issues, and they are, but it's extremely clear that they're also budgetary and fiscal responsibility issues too.

And the last thing I'll say is that I actually had to call the fire department unfortunately the other night, and to their credit, they showed up really quickly, but so did three squad cars, even though there was nothing going on that required any police presence at my home.

Um, and so that's you know, just an anecdotal experience that I had, but I think is one that's shared by people across the city.

So I would encourage the police department and the council and the administration to look at whether it's possible to change the way that we we do business in terms of who gets deployed to certain 911 calls when the police really are not needed.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Kate.

Um, okay, uh that uh wraps up public testimony.

Um we're going back to uh the counselors for a second round, uh, beginning with counselor Flynn.

Uh we're gonna do uh five minutes, and then you know, if we need a third round, I think we can squeeze it in.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you to the commissioner for being here.

Commissioner, I just wanted to follow up on the the health and wellness I focused on much of today for police officers and their families.

The 30-minute time frame, in my opinion, is not all that significant or is not all that long.

Is there any way we could get together with the unions and talk about that issue?

I just think a 30-minute opportunity to take an opportunity to do yoga or to do some type of exercise is really not enough time.

Is this something that you would work with me and maybe the unions, but I I do think it's important for us to readdress that.

So, well, excellent question.

So that was contractual, so that was actually negotiated in some way, and we just did it for the first time in this past contract.

So, um, you know, I how much can you do in 30 minutes?

I I'm not sure, but that's 30 minutes more than what they had previously that and so you know sometimes you have to call before you walk.

And I think that was an opportunity to say, hey, you know what?

We acknowledge that you know we can do more for your wellness, um, you know, if you can get the gym for 30 minutes or what have you.

Uh maybe that's helpful if you can meditate or do something that that improves your wellness.

I mean, you know, this is an important chance to do that.

I think we have to at least do it for a year or so and then evaluate it and get some input from everyone from the officers and then ourselves, because there is a cost to it around it, because uh longer than 30 minutes, it's it's that's taking, you know, officers.

Yeah.

Less we would have less officers to field team out there, so when I was on active duty for in the Navy, we I was in the Navy for 24 years, but when I was on active duty, we were required to take required to take one hour off to do exercise, um, and then come back, then come back to work.

But it it provided a sharper, more focused person that was working on advanced technology or or whatever the job was in the Navy, but I it does make the officer more alert, sharper, more focused, healthier, dealing in in supporting their mental health as well.

Just a thought, but I would strongly encourage, and I know it's negotiated in collective bargaining, but I do think it's important for us to review that because I think it could go a long way to supporting police officers and in retention.

I do think it will help mental health, and I think it will help um uh physical health as well.

Um my second point, Commissioner, is my and my colleague who I always have great respect for, counselor, Council Michael Flaherty, my neighbor in South Boston.

He would always ask the police commissioner when when can we get a retired retiree list of police officers that did an exceptional job?

They retired, but they do want to still contribute to the city.

They still have something to offer, they're in good shape, they're they're mentally sharp, they're focused.

They want to do some details.

How can we get some of those officers back on the street again?

I do get a lot of calls from them in my neighborhood, but a lot throughout the city as well.

Can we can we revisit that?

And I know we have to do that through a certain process, but I I do think that will help us get more police on the streets, and they they'll provide critical leadership.

They don't necessarily need to be trained again, but I think there'd be a tremendous addition to the residents of Boston.

They are part of the detail system that we're trying to implement with the new technology.

There um certainly the opportunities for details would be included in what we're trying to get out.

But that process has been ongoing to try to get it resolved.

But in the meantime, a lot of these officers that are retired are still waiting.

They still want to contribute.

I know other cities across Greater Boston.

I believe I believe Quincy has it, um, and they love that they love doing it.

Um how how can we make this a priority?

So the the detail system that we're currently trying to do is a priority.

We're just trying to make sure that the technology works, and once that happens, then we're going to implement it, including them as well.

And that's what we're trying to do around that.

And so at this point, the fastest way is to be all in with what we're currently doing.

Thank you.

I'm just looking at the civilian flagger jobs that they would need to be trained.

They would make the prevailing wage, which I which I do support, obviously, the prevailing wage.

But having said that, these police officers that are retired are are already trained, and they already have the experience of 30 years or whatever it might be.

They've been for the academy.

They can they can contribute significantly.

They know the neighborhoods, they know the people, they know public safety, they know constitutional law.

But it but while we wait to get this system up and running, can we prioritize retired police officers and and put them in a different category and say, look at we need more police on the street.

We're we're talking about this overtime issue, but why can't we address the overtime issue with these dedicated police officers that are retired, give them an opportunity to serve, they want to serve.

It will help financially the city of Boston, I think, and will help the residents of Boston especially.

Sure.

So when we um agreed and contractually agreed to do the system, what we agreed to do was get out of the business of running a detailed system.

So another uh vendor, private vendor is now running the system.

That's what we agreed to.

That's what part of the software is, and that's what the system we agreed to how we create it and do it.

Um that's what we're trying to implement.

And so uh in doing that, um, you know, we were taking officers again that were in those rooms and systems out and basically putting them back uh uh into the into the rest of the um organization to make to do the job of policing, and so um we're all in with what we agreed to.

We're all in on trying to make that happen.

And so it doesn't make sense to work backwards to continue to administratively have police officers do this and actually create something new because that's what we would be creating with the with the retirees.

At the same time, we're trying to create a system that's going to include them and others uh with with administrators that aren't police, and so we're all in with what we're currently doing, but I understand what you're trying to ask.

Okay, I I would recommend maybe do it.

Mr.

Chair, the do it, the information technology supposedly they're the best of the best around in the country.

We have Harvard over here and MIT.

But it's it can't be a technology issue.

Okay.

No, but Mr.

Chair, it's um it's an important pos um, it's an important point I'm making.

We we have the best minds right here in the city, and if it's a technology issue, let's bring them together.

Let's let's work out the technology kinks and the system.

That'll only take a week, but we need to get this thing up and running.

We can't keep we can't keep waiting.

Maybe we can wait for another month, but I think I think we should try to get it done this summer.

That's that that's what I believe.

Okay.

Point made, Councillor Flynn.

Uh councillor Fitzgerald, you're up next.

Thank you, Chair, appreciate it.

Uh, question focusing on mental health.

Uh I have several constituents that are in the police department that have been um injured while on the job, can no longer work.

What are the resources that the police department provides if you guys can talk about that?

And and how long do you stay in contact with folks after they've been injured, uh, you know, for the both physical and mental trauma?

Uh, how long does our uh referring to people that are injured on duty, and so they're in our health uh occupational health programs injured on duty, yes, yeah, yeah.

The just the protocol around dealing with folks injured on the job.

Regular checkups and check-ins that they have to do as part of um basically the routine that they have to do to improve to come back to work because the goal is to get them back to work and to get them healthy around that.

Do you want to speak to your time?

Sure.

Um, we have a very robust occupational health department, but you know, you know, our goal is to you know get their office back quickly, but more importantly, to get them back healthy and better than they were when they first got injured.

Having said that, we do have them come in like um bi-weekly for checkups, just to keep in check with them, but also to review any of their medical history to get them to the service of the provider that they need, whether it's what the PDX, whether it's something that they have chronic back pain, and I I think they do a great job making sure if they can't get in somewhere, they do everything they can to get them in quickly.

Um, but again, the goal isn't yes, we want our officers back.

The goal is to make sure that they're healthy and well to come back both mentally and physically.

And if the in if the injury is such that they are not able to come back, I mean, we know the one of the ones I'm thinking of, it's I mean it's gonna be severely injured for life.

So, if they're not able to come back, which is unfortunate, um, you know, and they if they are considered incapacitated as a result of their injuries that they sustained on while working, um, you know, they the next route is to file an um an accidental disability with the Boston Retirement Board.

Um, and then if the accidental disability is approved, um, you know, they'll they'll go out on our pension, roughly 72%, but the they'll be indemnified so any future medical costs and services needed associated with the injury that they sustained while on duty will be covered.

So basically saying it the the services to get the uh folks that to get the officers who were injured back on the force is slightly different from the uh what you would provide those, and not that one's better or the other, but for those that can't come back, there's a different route that they have to take in which the services are more stopped and we say we indemnify them in the future going on, but you're on your own.

We will always try, but eventually some officers will reach medical capacity, and that medical capacity prohibits them from coming back and after in full capacity.

We do have officers that come back that want to come back.

They will come back, but they need some time.

They might come back as modified duty.

Yeah, um, but if there is some point when we know that they've reached medical capacity and they can't return, that the next step is to basically steer them in the right direction to the retirement board.

Great.

Thank you.

Um I actually have just a couple more questions, but it's sort of to the uh this morning's hearing, but just a couple of things I noticed.

I saw on the you had a uh person shot versus victim shot uh chart.

I I I'm sorry, but I just don't under uh can you clarify the difference of persons versus victims?

It was in the um uh yeah, sorry to throw a curveball at you about uh from this morning's hearing, but um, I just didn't just just even the PowerPoint.

Yeah, it was in the yeah, in the presentation that you showed this morning.

I think there was a person shot and then one shot that said victim shot.

I just didn't know the difference between persons and victims.

If anyone can just, I that's just for my own education to be quite honest.

Is it person shot confirmed shots fired?

Total shots fired, fatal shooting victims, not fatal shooting victims, total shooting victims.

Right, but the at the header at the top was one person victims.

Incidents, person shot incidents versus confirmed shots fired incidents, and then the second category of victims are actual individual people.

Okay, that would be how the calls classified.

Person shot, okay.

So that the person shot versus victim versus victim shot.

The victim is the victim, but the person shot is the call, all right.

So the confirmed shots are called and then how many people we have.

Okay, thank you very much.

And then there was a there was one more other thing in there about uh privatized uh guns or something, that was recovered.

You're referring to ghost guns?

Yeah, is that what it's for?

I think it was in there it was referred to.

I'm sorry I don't have the sheet in front of me again from this morning, but I think it was like uh uh under guns recovered, I think it was like 54, and I think it said privatized or private privately manufactured privately manufactured, so is that is that ghost guns?

That's ghosts.

Okay, yeah.

Okay.

So but fifty-four is still a large, I mean that's a that's a any amount of number of privately manufactured guns is scary to me.

So uh 54, that's this is this is that number.

Have we seen that increase year over year?

Well, I think I think the privately manufactured guns have increased since we they first started coming out, which might have been right now, the last five years.

Yeah, you start to see them and they become more prolific as as we've gone along.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

And again, Pail, thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Counselor Lee Chen.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm gonna uh start where I left off about minimum staffing levels, uh, because I think it's been a while since we I mean this is the first function we're having this year on it.

If you could talk about what the minimum minimum stopping levels are, I think that would be helpful to you as to you, Commissioner.

Well, so again, um I think well, I would say old versus new um standards.

So minimum staffing levels are what we were requiring the minimum amount on a certain time.

But you have to understand that that changes from season, time, day, night, event.

And is it is it by st is it by station, is it by department?

Well, it it was you know, certainly um a way we gauged on what's the minimum, so say four for July, we know our call volume is off the charts.

So we get a lot more calls, it's a lot more activity.

Um, you know, sometimes a lot more violence around that particular weekend.

So we put out a minimum uh of minimum number of offices is usually a lot more than what we would do on a so the minimum staffing level will vary from it's very day to day.

From is there a baseline of what the minimum staffing level is?

And again, can you tell me if you're talking about department wide or bias?

And so remember what I said before old or new, now.

We're actually looking at that all the time and using um like both the brick, using the intelligence we have to try to determine that in some different way to make sure that you know is that number accurate, and we use additional people to make sure that that's uh filled?

So we do have minimum staffing levels, we we still do in some ways, but we're re-evaluating those daily with the goal of having a uh standardized with the goal of if that minimum is less, filling it or making sure that the public safety need is met with on duty personnel.

Are we currently meeting our minimum staffing levels?

I mean, we we do.

I mean, so the goal is public safety, we're meeting our public safety needs, yes.

Okay.

Is there a way that the city council could tangibly have uh sort of an understanding or a graph that shows what the minimum staffing levels are?

Because you're what you're asking is there a set standard and the answer in everything that we do in public safety is probably no, right?

In the sense that it changes, right?

And that's the things we evaluate it based on what's going on.

So say we hit a period of.

Can we have a snapshot of what minimum staffing levels are?

Like I know it's hard to predict when you.

But that is the we're in the business of actually dealing with what happens.

So as I was saying, if we're in a period of you know, protest, a lot of protests, and we know now we can forecast.

We're having protests every single day for like a month due to I don't know, a national crisis.

The number of people we we have to staff up is going to be different than it was the week before the month before.

So, you know, it's not a number that we typically traditionally put out there because it's it and when we want to be reliable in what we're saying, but the fact is we are looking, and that's what our intelligence does.

That's what part of what BRIC does.

I don't actually uh so I think my question is actually like of course care about it for the future, and I understand that why it's hard, but could you give us like a snapshot of like April and what the minimum staffing levels were for the month of April?

Because it's done and passed.

So if you're again it's not the same at all places, I know it's not the same in all whatever, so um, you know, I I don't know.

We we could look to try to the chair, probably the fourth attempt.

Certainly I guess.

Pause your time for one second.

In the past we have talked about minimum staffing levels in terms of overtime.

And when people are called in over the minimum, it is automatically over time.

So I think the suggestion was that minimum staffing levels were were kept low to have over.

So I I my thought about minimum staffing levels, you're saying that you're you're putting them higher when there's a need.

Can you talk a little bit about how minimum staffing levels impact overtime pay?

No, so uh think of it this way.

That's your question, not mine.

No, no, I paused your I paused your time.

Is it appropriate to have one officer say there's a sickness and people get sick and only one officer comes into a district that's working to work uh in a busy district?

No, we would need more additional personnel to handle the 911 calls and things of that nature.

So we're gonna fill up um the minimum.

And actually, a lot of the stations do have what they call minimum, like in some places, it's like you know, maybe a certain number of service cars, a couple of rapid cars, uh uh, a wagon, you know, certain levels of type of police and police personnel to be able to answer the stuff the calls that are on that particular district at that particular time.

So we do have some of these, uh, what you're what you're referring to.

Um, but the fact is it's not the same at all places, and it's not the same at all times.

No, we were I'm aware, I'm aware of that.

Right.

Okay, and but the point is is that you know, we deal in a world that changes rapidly.

I can name periods where I can tell you that our staffing levels are far higher than what they were when that stuff is not going on.

So what I've been trying to say this entire budget period is that we are now looking at everything that we do to make sure that if we hire or we're looking to think about hiring, that we're looking in our department to see if we can fill it with on duty personnel before we ever think about any type of point of overtime.

Okay.

Classic public safety need.

Yeah, I understand that, and I understand that it varies.

And that takes a lot of work.

Okay.

You know, I do.

So I'm asking for a snapshot in the past, you know.

Yeah, I know that they varies in a change, but if you could, if we could just have it for like the month of April or the month of March, I'm staying away from the month of March.

Actually, keep that's work that we'd have to do, so we will we would try.

Well, that's I mean, we have an oversight responsibility, so that the chair, if I if we could get that, that would be great.

And if you the BPD could produce that, that would be great.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner, something that we often talk about, and that you do a good job framing is that your job is not just uh not just crime, it's it's like it's also dealing with the fear of crime, and um, and I think that's a really hard job, uh, because the job of public safety is both dealing with like the realities and the fear.

What I mean, this is a bit of a like a uh uh like a like an essay question, but like what have you found or what do you find helpful in dealing with costs that are associated with the fear of crime than actual crime cost, that's a unique one, cost associated with the fear of like the fear, type of cost.

What do you mean?

Well, I don't know.

I mean, because it's a lot of cost, yeah.

Um, you know, there's cost of public trust, right?

Uh around um, you know, fear, uh, I mean, you know, fear brings out a lot, right?

And so we like to be you know realistic about certain things.

Um we are, you know, knock on wood for a city our size, what we're doing, we're a relatively safe city.

Um, I mean, it's it doesn't mean we don't have any crime, but the fact is we're a relatively safe city.

But from time to time, there's a whole number of people that could sensationalize what happens and the events that happen that make people fearful, um, because they're influenced by what people say, whether it's in council hearings, what the what the newspaper says, whether it's it doesn't matter where the form, right?

People are impacted by that.

Right.

And we try to bring reality to it, and that is why in our community com stats, we go and we talk to people about the reality of you know, we had 10 this, so we had eight of those, and then how we they can work with us to address these issues, right?

Fear is a big part of what we do, and so we're just trying to say stabilize that with facts so people aren't either frightened or unaware, right?

Sometimes people should be aware that we we do have stuff going on that they need to um be conscious about, and um and and then sometimes people maybe shouldn't be as fearful as they are because the reality the likelihood of those things happening is not that that strong.

And so we spend a lot of time trying to to deal with the public and address that when we talk to them and meet with them.

Thank you, thank you, Commissioner.

I appreciate that response.

I do have additional questions.

You did interrupt me, but I will wait till the third round.

I'll wait for my last question.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

Councillor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um Commissioner, I don't want to be a dead horse, but I did want to talk just a little bit about the overtime.

And when you look at construction traffic management and private event support and courts, what's the highest uh overtime in each of those categories?

What's the highest of all of the of those four categories?

So details are not overtime.

That's a private section.

So I'm talking about overtime.

Oh, overtime.

Yeah, okay.

Um, I'm looking for the the actual like.

Overtime.

So is it is do you use more overtime for construction, traffic management, private event, or courts?

So that is um, those are details that's paid by a private vendor.

That's not overtime.

No, I mean when the officers go to court.

Oh, that's that's overtime when they go to court.

Is that the highest amount of overtime that's used for court appearances?

No, that's that's weighted only six it, I'm not gonna say only, but that's weighted 6.9% of our total costs.

It's for court appearances, is the court appearance.

What's the biggest category?

Um the biggest category would be um extended tours, which is represents 30 percent of our extended tours.

Okay, and so with regard to the court and extended tours, is there a four per four hour?

Do they have a four-hour minimum for courts?

Yes, and is that the same for the other overtime or just for courts?

Just for courts with the four-hour minimum.

So if someone goes to court for 10 minutes, will they get paid for four hours?

Yes, they won't get paid for just 10 minutes.

No.

And so if you look at what happens with regard to the court, and you look at the average number of hours or time that one spends in court, the average amount of time one spends in court is what's the average amount of time one spends in court for a court case?

So I we we couldn't get you that much.

Can you get back to through the district attorney can help us as well?

But there's another fact that you have to understand is if you work days and you go to court, you don't get paid overtime.

That's just part of your tour duty.

So it's only when you work a shift other than days or a day off that you actually occurring over.

And so, how did it come about that if you go to court for 10 minutes?

Contractual, it's part of a contractual, it's kind of like call back because if you don't work days when courts are open, you're off.

That's your off time.

So we're calling you back to work.

So uh it's it's basically we're saying, you know, you should be compensated if you're on a day off.

If you have to now come in, put a uniform on, now go to court to testify about work-related stuff, whether you're there, you know, 10 minutes or four hours, like that call back is worth four hours of your time.

You're free.

Even if it's only 10 minutes contractually, this is this has been this way for many, many years.

This is not new.

No, I understand, and so the officer that is already on duty goes right in whatever time it is, he's still gonna get paid his regular pay because he's on duty.

If he's on duty, there's no overtime, he's just he gets his regular, yeah.

He's just it's working because it goes back to work, correct?

Okay, okay.

But I just want to be clear that it's only the overtime for court that guarantees them the four hours, even though they only go for 10 minutes.

No, that so think of that call back.

Is that across the board for whatever the overtime is?

Uh no, so that remember, four hours.

If someone is off off the office books, they're not working.

No, I got that.

They called in to work.

Whether it's for court or they're called back in for like with mandatory overtime, we need you to come in.

Um, you know.

Because you have because you don't have sufficient officers on that shift.

Yeah, there would be a minimum of four hours.

And that's time and a half.

Yes.

And the 30% that you talked about was what category was that again?

That's extended tours.

That's hour for hour.

So it's it's not a four hour minimum, it's just hour for hour the extended tours.

So what is the extended tours?

That's just when you come back when you're called back in.

No, that's that that's so there's like as the commissioner said, there's there's the quote overtime, which is a four hour minimum, and then there's also um a category called called additional tour follow.

Um, so for example, you you're in an investigation, your tour is over, you go home, and for whatever reason you're called back.

That's a four-hour minimum if you get called back.

Okay.

Extended tour would be if the officer is near the end of the shift, he goes to a call, it's a major accident.

Uh he's directing traffic, he can't leave at his ending time, and that's hour for hour for as long as he stays.

And I know you probably don't have it now, but can you give us the total amount of overtime for each category, whether it's extended tours or this courts or whatever else it's for, can just give us per category so we can just look at the amount of overtime that's being used per category?

Through the chair.

Sorry, through the chair.

Yeah.

Another thing I would ask through the chair is if we could get the information that I asked for earlier regarding the dissolution of that uh Garretty consent decree case and the numbers of minorities that have been hired, whether it's increased or whether it's decreased, just to see what happened since that consent decrease was dissolved.

I know during the uh consent decree, they were up pretty high.

I just want to see what happened from the time that consent decree was dissolved.

Through the chair.

Yeah, I got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

That dissolved about 15 years ago.

I don't know if that's it.

I don't know exactly if it's 15, but I know it's been dissolved.

I just wanted to see.

Oh, sorry.

I okay.

I was gonna say, I think from our police exam case, we had data that did patrol officers basically uh sort of uh the the makeup look like the makeup of the city of Boston.

Uh, we want to see the data.

Yeah, yeah.

I I think I have some on my computer.

So officers.

No, no, and then we for then that then the issue is that uh the way the way they the police department has made promotions, it does not continue through all the ranks.

Uh you know, just uh because of the sort of sort of thing.

So the data that of the officers, uh what's the percentage of officers from the time the Garridy consent decree?

What is a to today?

I got it.

I think whether it's patrolment or not.

Yep.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh okay.

I'm just gonna ask a couple questions, and we I think uh we'll we have oh we'll have a little more time.

Um I think just for extended, because we do have some overtime data already, which I'll share with you for the um for extended tours.

I think it goes into a category called directed patrol, like most of the extended tour data.

Do you know what directed patrol is?

That's just like the subheading under extended tours.

So I directed patrol is typically an assignment that you give people who are they're directed to patrol in a certain area around in reference to overtime.

It sounds to me like that might have been additional overtime that we might have assigned for officers to do something specific.

Okay, and in the past we've heard that court overtime, like we had we were given data.

I think that it was something like there was three million a year in court.

Again, this is a very small slice of the larger overtime pie, was for time that was the four hours is being paid pursuant to the CDA, but not in court.

Uh there was like three million dollars in payments that were sort of made pursuant to that provision, but for time not in court.

Do you still have data like updated data on that for the last fiscal year?

I said so.

Yeah, or just hours worked versus hours paid.

Yeah, we can get you.

I don't have that, but we do have that data.

Okay.

Um and then I guess uh, you know, I just we'll talk a little bit about the police exam case.

I remember talking to one one of my clients, uh uh Boston police uh sergeant, and I talked about uh in in my neighborhood, Eggleston Square, Mill, you know, Mildred Haley apartments, Bromley Heath, that there was sort of like an ebb and a flow to the youth violence, and I remember him saying, Well, that's we work with the youth, we get them jobs, and then you know it's a couple years go by, and then you got a new generation that kind of comes up without that sort of structure.

So I guess we have we've talked we we're here Tuesday night till about eight o'clock at it at night hearing from youth about youth jobs, and you heard a little bit about in the public testimony.

I guess uh what impact does the youth jobs program have on public safety?

I'm just asking as the sort of experts on public safety in Boston.

Um, I think certainly it has an impact.

I mean, uh, you know, uh the less idle time that they have, I think, you know, usually the less time for you know youth to make mistakes in some way, shape, or form because they are young.

Uh you know, the I certainly the city and the mayor is uh invested a lot in uh youth jobs throughout the summer, and I and and I think it's been reflective in the better numbers that we've seen as far as youth crime since that has happened.

So I think there is a correlation, although we don't have enough research to sit here and say, Have you just looked four years back and you you're looking at the crime data going down and the youth job numbers going up to just uh potentially related?

But okay, so we talked a little bit about shot spotter.

Um I just I had a question about the flock.

Uh and and I think last time we talked about uh flock, we we had done a pilot and we weren't gonna be using, we had given the cameras back, over.

Pilots over the camera those cameras that we had put up or sent back to the flock people.

I don't know.

We're not we're not are we using the flock program anymore?

We are not using flock.

Okay.

Uh okay, I just I know my colleagues are still here.

Um I just wanted to give them some a chance for we'll do a short three-minute uh third round.

Thank and thank you.

Again, thank you, Commissioner.

Commissioner, quick question.

Um I know you spent a lot of time in when you do the community um crime stats on elderly scams as well, talking about elderly scams.

Um, do you have any updates on what the latest um BPD is doing in educating everybody, especially the elderly about a lot of scam artists out there?

Yeah, I know, and uh particularly in the summer months, we do a lot working with the elderly of exposing them to all the different scams.

Uh I know we we did something in conjunction with ATT uh in some certain groups around um doing that.

I would say that we you know we try to push out through the break through uh media relations on a regular basis, especially as we see a spike in a particular type of scam, like say a grandparent scam or something, we try to get that out.

We also try to push that out through our community service people, especially the ones that are dealing with the elderly groups in certain neighborhoods that tend to have more elderly.

So I think there's a is a you know, we're also gonna be looking at kind of and this is as we come up on the summer as we look at FIFA um and we try to again identify potential crimes that might take place.

We do see the opportunity for a significant amount of fraud to take place within that, whether it's whether it's um, you know, we found one recently uh fake parking passes that are being sold as as uh people can buy parking passes, Airbnb issues, scams, and again the traditional scams that target the elderly.

So uh we'll be we'll be issuing more public service announcements and more um kind of information out through our community service people through the media and so on to identify those things.

Thank you, Superintendent.

Um superintendent, or commissioner, um, just in my district, maybe citywide, I do see a lot of people having their vehicle next to um the public having their vehicle at a fire hydrant.

Can we can we just kind of do a um a round of calls to the captain, just captains to um stress to the offices when we do see that, um, you know, make sure that we do ticket that.

I I try to call that in every time I see it, but I I am concerned about kind of the growing um the growing number of times I see people parked in front of a high uh fire hydrant.

Yeah, it's something we always encourage, you know, call 91 to let us know.

We've certainly come by and um certainly at minimum write a citation.

Okay, my final question, and uh again I I want to be uh respectful of the time.

Superintendent, um, and this is an issue I've focused on for for a while, um, but the gun trafficking in Boston, the ghost guns we were talking about earlier today.

People are able to make ghost guns, whether it's through the computer or or through the mail, uh however they do it and assemble it.

But are these now powerful guns, powerful weapons that it's it's putting the police at a disadvantage knowing that people are able to produce their own weapons?

I am concerned about the safety of our offices and obviously the public as well.

Well, I think um, you know, again, we talked about earlier the uh, you know, I think 54%, I think it was of the uh firearms, the 515 firearms that were seized, considered to be crime guns, were uh privately manufactured.

So that's a concern.

Um, you know, the ability to put them together.

Um we did also see one, I think we had one um 3D printed firearms as well, which is obviously a concern, but obviously to a much different level.

I think the ability to put those together, uh, you can purchase those pieces, the uppers, the lowers, all the pieces you need um separately online.

You can, you know, there's ways to get that very easily.

There is some skill that goes to putting it together and make it a workable firearm, but uh we have seen, especially when you see that significant increase.

Uh we have seen that people have figured that out and are starting to do that.

The part you know, the what they're putting together is no more or less powerful than what we already see out there, uh, but they're unserialized, so they're they're um we can't trace them like we would a normal firearm and and find out where they came from at the track of where they have been since they were manufactured and sold.

So that's one of the issues is that they're that they're they're unserialized and therefore unable to be traced.

Thank you, Superintendent.

Okay, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Counselor Flynn.

I would just uh we have some folks for uh just a second round of public testimony.

I know these this panel's been here since 10 a.m.

So I'm trying to get them out of here.

Okay, thank you very much, Councillor Louis Gen.

Thank you.

I actually really just have one, I mean, two, well, okay, one follow-up question.

Um, and it's actually related to what Council Weber asked when you talked about these jobs and policing.

My my question was going to be a little bit broader in terms of like what are the expenses uh or in investments that the city make that you see as a good corollary to the work that you do, sort of a lot of it being sort of reacting to the crime and the fear of crime.

What are the good investments that you observe on the front end, especially if you're you know believe that a root cause of uh of the violence that we see is sort of lack of resources, lack of opportunity and poverty.

What are the good interventions that you understand or like you know, if you added if you weren't in the law enforcement realm, the investments that we should be making sort of on the other side to do the work of prevention?

I wouldn't even say it's just a city investment.

I mean, private sector can do it well as well.

I mean, uh, you know, there's there's we have partners all throughout the city.

We're lucky in the sense that the boys and girls club, the YMCA.

They offer uh, you know, I think free membership from time to time to um youth, their families, uh, around activities in the summer months and actually all year long.

They have programming uh to keep the kids engaged and and and positive doing positive things.

Um we have there's many different programs in the city.

I mean, we're Boston is blessed in so many ways where there's a lot of people who care and are invested in our youth, and I think that's really important.

Um, so they can stay positive doing positive things.

Um when they're not engaged, uh, you know, unfortunately, when you're at your youngest, you don't always have good decision making.

Uh but yet when you're in um activities that are you know geared towards having fun, um supervision, um things where they can do productive things, you don't get some of the behavior sometimes associated with youth with no supervision just out and about in in the neighborhoods.

And so I think that's very important.

Um, even in our department, we have many officers through our community engagement programs.

They have programming where they work with youth, uh, females, uh, you know, fishing, um, you know, softball, hockey programs.

We even within the police department work with with youth quite a bit, at no cost, you know, where officers are volunteering their time, uh, a lot of times to make sure that they can help build trust, but also to help engage the the youth because they're our future in so many different ways, and so the city's done a j uh, I think uh a great deal around programming, as well as uh I want to give uh you know Isaac Jabo and his his crew uh you know in public health and the things that they do around you know whether it's trying to address some of the mental health challenges and things that are out there.

And again, I told you earlier, Youth Connect that works with us uh around uh the social work and and the ability to engage uh them with uh the help that they might need for whatever insecurities, mental health issues, uh drug addiction issues they might have in the entire family.

So we're partnering with many people in the city to address the needs that are out there so they don't end up in our public safety space.

Okay, that's my question.

I'll just make a cob.

Then there was a comment about sort of the work that has been done, uh the good work that has been done around reforms for um uh overtime with respect to injury leave, and just you know, uh are there plans to do that around vacation and save time?

Try to help manage overtime costs.

Yes.

Um yeah, so we went from how many 200.

A lot of it related to the COVID-19 virus, but on average we were figuring at 200, we're down to 58 right now, and that's been declining continuously.

I think we're down 13 more than we were this time last year.

And it's maybe mentioned if officers are out for you know at least over a year, and it doesn't look like they have the ability to come back full duty, uh, because they're not uh progressing health wise, then you know uh then the retirement portion is kicking in as far as involuntarily um giving them that option.

Uh and so when that happens, then that gives us the ability to actually hire officers because we do need to have officers, full duty officers are born.

Um, you know, we're doing a lot to try to address uh, you know, some of the what I was saying the um the gaps that we have in our in a and our shortage of manpower.

Um and so 58s is you know it's where we are.

The goal is for them not to go out injured in the first place.

That's why 30 minutes of wellness and maybe officers maybe working out going to the gym, or might keep them from getting injured in the first place.

Uh we're trying to do as much as we can for their wellness and more importantly, uh, you know, to make sure that we field healthy officers on daily basis.

Okay, thanks.

I just two quick questions.

In terms of the cadet program, do we have numbers on sort of uh uh by race who we've hi how many people we've we've hired through that program?

Um I have right here, um currently we have 28 cadets, um 21 males, seven females, eighteen speak a second language, seven seventy-nine born outside the United States.

Well, in terms of hiring data, like just um not necessarily in the in the cadet program this year uh we we anticipate a new cadet class um roughly in September of this year of 25.

Okay, and then the uh okay, if I maybe you just share the uh data with me, you know, uh after this.

The other just on mass and casts one last question.

So because it's a special event.

Are people who are scheduled there?

Are they not scheduled to work a regular shift that day?

It's just the way it's called that.

It's not a special event anymore.

It's tour of duty.

Okay, that's it.

Yeah, okay.

So that so it is just is somebody's working, like whatever Monday through Friday in some you know, some district B3 or whatever they they can be assigned to that space.

I just think it was coded as a special event to give it a unique number so that it could be tracked to determine how much was being spent there.

So that's what's meant by special event for overtime coding purposes, not that we're treating it like a special event like a community matter.

I got it, but it is paid over it is overtime.

Yes, yes.

I guess heads went on every way tour of duty.

So tour of doing no more as of when.

Well, so as I said, that we are looking at almost everything and trying to be uh you know as uh as flexible as we can, making sure that we use officers that are actually working to address our issues and problems, and so um, and then and that's one of the benefactors of that.

Okay.

Currently.

Okay, okay.

Uh yeah, I'm just I in the data I just got, it's in you know, uh special event.

Uh I said that we we we involve in increments, and so okay.

Thank you very much.

I I'm gonna go to public testimony, and that that's uh I I'm trying to get everyone out of here by five.

Although we have I think eight people and take it two minutes each, I'll try to be uh disciplined with the time, but I would appreciate if you could stay and just just hear them.

Uh okay, uh I think in here I've got uh Sam Pierce.

Okay, I think I saw him outside.

Oh, he's up there.

Okay, so Sam, you got two minutes, and then after that, I think I have JDNL, Samaya, I think Genesis, then Joaquim, George Lee, and uh two more.

I'll get to them.

Okay, Sam.

Uh try to again uh for for everyone speaking, we're gonna we we uh I'm gonna try to cut you off at two minutes.

Uh you hear the buzzer, please wrap it up.

Whenever you have thank you.

Um first of all, I just wanted to say that um obviously we appreciate our first in the nation.

Um, the Boston police actually were our winners this year um at our cupcake and our um annual Thanksgiving cook off, so we're really excited about that.

One of the things I wanted to talk about is kind of go full circle.

First, since we're gonna be losing um one third of our senior class, um they're not gonna be graduating.

We know that that's gonna fall on the police's shoulders, and so we really want to see more money spent with our CSOs.

Our CSOs are actually um, we call them our first response, but actually the most interfacing and public uh facing part of the police, and they're actually um the parts of the police that people um experience the most.

So we definitely want to support more CSOs.

Those are the people that will come to community events, um, and hopefully would maybe even be tutoring some of these students and and keeping them out of uh of harm's way.

Um one of the other things I wanted to mention is that um there seems to be some type of a backlog on the homicide um investigations.

Uh I know that there are a few uh homicides that are been backlogged, one of which was from 2024.

Um for those who don't remember, was in uh Forest Hills.

We're still waiting on the results from that investigation with Glenn Ingram.

But then we also realize that um that's just one example of several homicides that I'm sure if we you know open the door, there would be a a line out the door.

But we appreciate the fact that our police wear multiple hats and they also have um different talents, and so they used to have the PAL program, which they could probably speak to, but that actually hasn't been funded as much as we like to see, and then also they had something called the Great Program, um, which also was a way that they could interface with the public.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Sam.

Um, okay, so uh again I I apologize if I'm just reading this wrong, but I think it says J D N L then Samaya.

I think it says Genesis Joaquim, uh George Lee, okay, winner.

Hi, my name is Janaya.

Um I was here a few days ago for the youth job hearing, and I can't lie.

Um well you have to be here, but you was also here for the whole meeting, and I wish it was least majority of the counselor still here.

I know you're still here, so I'll say thank you for that.

I appreciate your respect.

But we had a whole bunch of youth here filling up the rooms.

You had to have them outside the doors, and it just said how some of the city counselors still wasn't here to hear our vote.

I mean, here are testimonies, our emotions uh how youth youth school year jobs are very helpful, and it's very emotional, and it's taking six million hours school year job, and it's not it's not fair and housing, etc.

It just it's just crazy.

And I feel like out of the whole budget, not gonna lie, Boston Public Department has the most respect, and it's the never well, not never, but since mayor continue climbing up in budget, but never climbing down.

But housing, youth jobs, et cetera.

It's keep on climbing down, and I don't know if y'all don't like the youth or anything, but you know, is making the community move out and get out of Boston.

So I don't know if that is what y'all want, but yeah, thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Janet, if it uh make makes you feel any better.

We did have almost all the counselors here when we heard a first round of public testimony uh basically an hour and a half ago.

But uh I apologize for uh people more people can't be here to hear you.

Uh okay.

Uh next, just introduce yourself and and uh you have two minutes.

Hi, my name is Samai, and I live in Rosendale.

I'm here today because I care about everyone's safety, especially the youths.

The police are not a solution for everybody, they're a solution for people who are majority white.

While we want to believe that the police don't target anyone who is unsafe, we also know that they are known to target people who are black and brown.

Going to the O'Brien, I have seen police cars surrounding my school because both O'Brien and Madison Park High School are historically filled with black and brown students.

They camp outside on a but at a bus stop right outside of Madison and at Nubian.

This makes kids feel unsafe and intimidated, like they should be afraid of the police, not like they're there to protect them.

The police are ready to arrest and detain kids instead of funding people who are who oppress the youth, we should fund youth jobs so kids have a safe place where they can go.

Having a youth job will set kids up for success and keep them off the streets.

When youth jobs budget increased, the crime decreased according to according to Boston's own research.

We shouldn't be spending nearly a half a billion dollars on a system that oppresses black and brown folks.

We should prioritize putting money back into the youth.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Um, hi, my name is Genesis, and I live in East Boston.

I'm here today because I care about the future of the Boston.

Personally, I do not agree with the youth job cuts nor adding to the police budget.

I'm concerned about the youth job cuts because I have a youth job and been and it's been one of the best things that has happened to me.

I've been able to provide for myself and for those who I care about around me.

I've been able to gain knowledge that I carry with myself throughout my life and have met people who have major majorly impacted my life.

A year ago during this month, I had been dealing with very bad mental issues and ended in a mental hospital and a psychword.

I was in a very low time of my life, and the people from my job were the ones who supported me the most in every aspect.

I was able to get rides to places I was safe and comfortable at and able to keep my stomach full.

I had emotional support and moral support that helped me keep going and lifted me up.

I'm forever grateful for the endless opportunities my youth job has provided, and I genuinely don't know where I'd be without mine.

The youth create the future, so the city should prioritize the youth's needs instead of criminalizing them and targeting them.

It's not fair that I'm being cut to further support the police who hurt the community.

Instead, the city should continue funding youth jobs to support the youth who work very hard to make a living and work on bettering themselves.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Good afternoon.

Uh my name is Joaquin Atala Gutierrez.

I'm 17 from Hyde Park in Dorchester.

I'm here with the Youth Justice and Power Union to demand a cut to the police budget because it keeps getting an increase of funding, which directly hurts my community and the city as a whole.

The police budget got increased to 400 484 million dollars, while important parts of the city budget that help our community succeed got cut.

Such as the youth jobs budget, department of food justice, department of housing, immigration advancement, participatory budget, and even elder support.

All these vital budgets of the city got cut while the police budget got increased after increase after the people of the city are here constantly communicating that communicating what we need.

Police don't keep the city safe at all.

I bring the statistics up constantly, uh, and counselor Webber just did too.

That when the police budget goes down and the youth job budget goes up, the crime rate goes down, which goes to show the need for funding in other areas of the budget other than the police.

The city is an extremely expensive and the third most expensive city to live in.

Yet we are here cutting the budget to the very things that make the city so expensive and put it into the police.

People in the city are just barely getting by.

They need money to survive.

And in and unfortunately, people are often acquire this money that they need to survive illegally.

And the police come in, and rather than preventing any crimes, they make it worse.

So the city wants to make our community safer, stop funding the police, and listen to community when we say we need other areas of the budget funded.

Police stem from catching runaway slaves and now do the same thing.

Enslaved people were being oppressed by the system and would commit a crime, such as running away, in order to survive.

And now you see people of color in our communities who are being oppressed by the system and commit a crime in order to survive.

So this city runs itself on capitalism, which needs people to be down in order for another group of people to be up.

And the police are violent force behind keeping the system afloat.

And the people who are bringing who are being kept down by the system are people of color in our city, and the police are therefore enforcing the system that makes sure people of color are down.

As a Palestinian, safety is a human right that my people do not have.

And safety needs to be more prioritized when it comes to people of color, and police do not do that.

Fund the fund the people and what they need to be safe, not the police.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Uh George Lee, and then I apologize again.

I'm not sure if this is no seek of or due or something similar to that.

Okay, George.

Um, someone was just asking me what the point of this hearing is because they didn't hear any city counselors really address what this is supposed to be about, which is it's a budget hearing, and is this the right budget?

And I think it's pretty obvious that the police budget is broken and too high, and it's a shame that not enough counselors do more than don't even lift a finger to stop it.

Especially this year, it's a train wreck of a budget that's gutting the community, and city counselors have a choice either to turn away and watch this train run over young people in the community or to actually stop this train wreck from happening.

So I want to just point to a few ways that y'all should actually look at cutting the police budget because in a lot of the working sessions.

I know, Councilor Weber, you push to cut 1.8 million one year for the exam, but most of the times it's very minimal attention to what needs to happen.

So, one, um, the mayor's already proposing pushing back a class by six months.

It's something we've asked before year after year, and gets treated like it's not a real idea.

But push it back another six months.

Make it in fall 2027 instead of the spring, get some savings out of that.

We need any money we can to stop these cuts, especially when a BPS is freezing hiring from time to time, it's not unreasonable to ask the police to do the same for overtime.

The city council pretends it can't cut overtime.

One, there are real cuts that the admin can make.

You've you've seen the evidence they go from 1.3 or whatever it is to 1.2 to 1.1 million hours by reigning in, like actually administering overtime correctly.

So the city council can help that mandate by cutting overtime, and it's no different from from using money from execution of courts.

The city's gonna get money from the revenue that's coming in to fund overtime just as it does for execution of courts.

It's really the one of the few ways the city council can actually force the mayor to use money that's in reserves because you can't move money from reserves directly.

Um, but every year there's extra revenue, um, to the point where the mayor says I'm gonna use 40 million from reserves to fund OPEB.

She never has to because there's more revenue.

So just use police overtime in your amendments.

And number three, cut brick in uh in the year when we're supposedly standing up to against ice to gut um funding for immigrants is ridiculous.

And I want to say for you specifically, Counselor Weber, you have a very big responsibility this year given the magnitude of these cuts, and your leadership is gonna make or break what happens.

And I really appreciate I know on May 27th there's a meeting scheduled with a bunch of youth groups with you to really go into detail on what's happening with youth jobs and all these cuts.

But I think you really need to shepherd a process that doesn't just like, you know, nibble at the edges of this budget.

Execution courts is only five million dollars, that's not enough to reverse all these cuts.

And you you probably know the mayor is making it really hard to find any money elsewhere.

So it's on you to really rally the city councilors together and really look at other solutions like police funding and and really make a moral stand on on what's reasonable and a good budget math, or also possibly look at rejecting the budget so that the mayor actually has to have better revenue estimates.

Because there's no way y'all are gonna amend the budget in little ways without some bigger tactics to really get these cuts back.

So, Councilor Ruther, I hope you'll really take a stand and lead um rescuing folks from from this budget.

Okay, thank you.

Um I'm not sure if this is an R or an N, but you can't.

You can say it right.

No sick overdue.

Okay, thank you.

Hi, my name is Osika.

I am from Hyde Park.

Um, real quick, a budget is a financial plan or statement estimating income and expenses over a specific period used to guide spending, manage resources, and achieve financial goals.

Um, straight from Google.

And I fear that that definition of budgeting is not what is actually used when we're talking about the overtime budget.

I have been here year after year.

I've actually been doing this job since I was 14 years old.

I'm currently 23.

Year after year, I've been begging for us to put a cap on overtime because that budget actually is not a real budget.

We continue and continue and to continue to pour money into this endless pit that never stops.

And now we are currently standing in a year where there will be no school year youth jobs coming for the 2026 year.

So in September, youth will not have jobs for the school year.

And I would like to note that when community was outside on the front lines fighting for youth jobs.

Police officers were not there.

They were not there with us when we were marching, they were not there with us when we were coming to every single city counselor's door and begging for it.

They were not there when city counselors were in the back rooms and sitting for hours fighting for youth jobs.

They weren't there, but yet they do benefit from taking community jobs from the community so they can have their own youth.

But I'm I've never heard any solution for what the police will be doing for the youth that they hired that won't be having a school year job this year.

Will you be fighting with the community, the same community that have even allowed for this even be an option?

I haven't heard that.

What I've heard is how y'all want to make sure your pay stays the same.

How y'all want to make sure your vacation stays the same, how y'all want to make sure that your budget and your overtime budget stays the same.

I've yet to hear about what anyone wants to do for the youth in this conversation.

I would also like to note that youth literally or humans are very, very simple.

We need food, we need shelter, we need clothing, we need health.

When you take away the means for you to be able to attain that, you then force people to have to survive.

And when we do we label these survival methods as illegal, and then we arrest them.

We are literally just pushing forward the school to prison pipeline more and more and more.

But now instead of it being inside the structure of the school, it's outside.

What are we going to do about that?

And I know my time is up, but I would just like to know that the same community that y'all stole our youth from to give them these jobs, and you have yet to mention what you were going to do for the youth, is the same community that's here today reminding you that you have a duty to quote unquote protect, and you're not doing that with your budget.

So you should be wise to give up a portion of your budget so that way these youth can continue to have a job and continue to protect themselves because you're not doing it.

Thank you so much.

Okay, thank you.

And then online uh Priscilla Flint.

Hello, this is Pasola Flint.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Yep, you got two minutes whenever you're okay.

So I just want to say, um, I just want to say my name is Priscilla Flint, and I am I have um a youth program called the Marcus Anthony Hall Educational Institute where I train young folks about civic engagement.

We've been I've been doing this for about 10 years.

I'm also a retired employee of the city of Boston.

I ran the payroll for the city of Boston for 20 years, and I have some questions and concerns about the budget, raising the police budget and cutting the youth jobs is very important that I youth have jobs this summer.

Um also, as far as the the details, I know that I know for a fact that the company, whether it's construction, whether it's um national grid, any of those organizations, they are the ones that are supposed to pay for the detail.

So that should not even be included in the in the in the yearly budget.

And I just want to also say that I youth deserve a chance.

We don't the the police budget is out is out of what it's it's ridiculous.

And so we're asking the city counselors to to not approve this budget.

Um let the mayor rethink.

I mean, we're already spending a hundred and thirty five million dollars on white stadium there's a lot of issues that's going on in our community that the mayor is just basically doing what she wants to do and it needs to stop and you all are the ones that are supposed to stop it so I I that's I know my two minutes is probably up by now but you got 20 seconds.

Okay so I'm I'm I'm I'm asking you all you know rethink that budget veto her budget and make her do something different and I've been trying to get um Michael Cox to come on my show since he's been the police commissioner and for some reason I can't get him to come on.

I don't understand why but whatever um I I really would like for him to come on my show and talk to my constituents about what's going on with the police department and the budget my shows People Power Whip Sola every Thursday 9 a.m to 10 a.m it would be lovely to have him on there thank you thank you um okay I think that's uh I just like to thank the panel for for uh sticking around for public testimony uh um uh no other questions okay uh thank you to Councilor Flynn uh for being here thank you to everyone you know we that was just uh we had uh we heard eight o'clock at night on uh on Tuesday listening to people talk about the impact that is uh the cuts these jobs is having so I'm glad you could stick around and hear some of it um again okay so this afternoon's hearing is now adjourned to the