Good morning.

I'm Boston City Councillor Ed Flynn.

Thank you for being here.

Want to acknowledge today's meeting is on docket number zero five one five.

It's in order for a hearing to discuss the status of addressing potholes in the city of Boston.

We have administration officials that are here today with us, including the Chief of Streets, Nick Gove, including the Public Works Superintendent of Street Operations, Highway Division DNA, and Norman Parks.

I want to say thank you to you, Norman, for your commitment to the residents of Boston, along with DNA along with uh the chief as well.

This hearing is being recorded.

It is being live streamed at Boston.gov City General 8 RCN Channel 82 FIOS Channel 964.

Written comments may be sent to the committee email at CCC.gov.

C C CCC at C S I T at Boston.gov.

It will be made part of the record and available to all city counselors.

Also, if any people in the public that are listening, they all can they also can email me directly.

Ed.flynn at Boston.gov.

Public testimony will be taken at the end of the hearing.

Individuals will be called on in order which they are signed up and have two minutes.

If you are interested in testifying in person, please add your name to the sign-up sheet near the entrance of the chamber on the left.

If you are looking to testify virtually, please email our central staff liaison, ShanePack at Shane S H-A-N-E.PAC at Boston.gov for the link.

Your name will be added to the list.

I want to say thank you to Shane for being here for the work you are doing.

That's in the television video room.

Thank you to Ethan.

Thank you to Shane.

As I mentioned, dock at 0515 order for hearing, discuss potholes in the city of Boston.

We're also joined by Boston City Councilor John Fitzgerald from Dorchester.

I'm gonna give opening remarks, but I do want to give um Council Fitzgerald the opportunity to go before me.

Council Fitzgerald, would you like to um give an opening statement?

Yeah, please and thank you, Chair.

Uh folks, how are you?

Thank you for being here today, all of you.

Um I just want to say how much I appreciate all that you do.

Uh last night I was at the retirement party for Darlene Williams uh and got to meet a lot of other people uh that are in uh that you know work on our streets, uh fill our potholes, take care of of the city services that people expect.

There's a lot of things our government does that uh don't necessarily necessarily expect, but the one thing they want in paying their taxes just to make sure, hey, I just want my sidewalks okay, my streets okay, uh, and delivering on those basic city services.

So it was great to meet a lot of those folks last night uh and knowing the leadership team up here uh and and the great individuals that you are.

Uh I'm very proud of this department and uh and and the camaraderie that you guys have amongst each other.

Uh I felt that last night at the retirement event, um, and just the people talking about each other and the reason they stay 37 years.

Uh, and it's because of the people, and it's because of the work they do for this city.

So just want to thank you.

Um, you know, obviously we'll have some questions later on, but uh appreciate the time chair and appreciate the panel being here today.

Thank you, Council Fitzgerald.

My opening statement will be brief.

These are the issues I like to focus on as the district city counselor from district two, but also chair of this commit this committee.

It's the nuts and bolts of city government that residents really want us to refocus our energy attention on, especially elected officials.

I think they want elected officials to advocate for quality of life issues for basic city services, the nuts and bolts of city government, whether it's potholes, whether it's water and sewer related issues, whether it's parks, whether it's clean streets and um improving improving services.

That's why that's why I be that's why I became a city council, is really to join to deal with these issues.

Um I'm here to learn more about how we fill potholes, the challenges we have ahead of us, how residents can get more engaged and active, but also um listening, learning more from the administration team on these quality of life issues.

Let me stop there.

Let me ask the chief of streets if they'd like to give an opening presentation.

I believe you you might have a slide slide presentation.

Yes, counselor.

Thank you.

Yep, go ahead, Nick.

Alright, good morning, everybody.

Um counselors, thank you for having us here to discuss potholes.

Um, as mentioned, this is a critical basic city service, and it's something that we spend quite a bit of time on.

So we understand potholes are a very frustrating perennial issue in Boston and other cold climate cities.

Public Works has adopted and implemented standard operating procedures to address this roadway defect.

But before we get into that, I want to start by providing some background on what causes potholes.

Water infiltration is the primary cause of potholes.

So rain or snow melt seeps through cracks in the asphalt, saturates the soil, and the aggregate base beneath the roadway softens and it causes it to weaken.

During freeze thaw cycles, this water under the road freezes, it expands, creates a gap under the immediate roadway surface.

And when that ice melts, the void that's left beneath collapses under traffic load.

Proper drainage in stormwater infrastructure is a key factor in helping manage potholes.

If water can't drain away from the roadway, it can pool at low spots around manhole castings and curb cuts, and this contributes to that freeze thaw cycle problem.

And then obviously aging infrastructure.

Old pavement roads that have been compromised by utility repair trenches, and roads with poor base compaction.

These are all more susceptible to potholes than a street that is in good condition.

Why are there more potholes in the spring?

Well, this is pothole season here in New England.

Potholes form because that ground underneath that's been frozen all winter melts.

And so that sub base gets stoffed and unstable.

So this winter was, you know, we had significant snowfall, and we had a long duration period of sub-freezing conditions.

And that contributed to a fairly significant increase in the freeze thaw cycles.

We saw a 13% more than an average than the average of the previous five years, with more than 70 days with high temperatures above freezing and low temperatures below freezing.

So the winter, and then again this winter also saw over 60 inches of snow, which again represents more than twice the average of the five previous winters.

So these factors all contributed to a particularly challenging pothole season this spring.

But while this spring 311 pothole requests did increase sharply in March, like every spring, our concentrated effort and response helped reduce the volume of incoming requests.

This eventually results in lower and more stable service requests outside of the spring pothole season.

While repairing potholes is a critical basic city service, it's only one component of our larger roadway maintenance program.

Roadway maintenance is it's a continual year-round effort.

And again, potholes is one component of it, but our engineers routinely assess and grade the condition of pavement on every block on every street citywide.

And we work with all the utility companies to make sure that they've done any necessary repairs and upgrades to their infrastructure before we go in and resurface a road.

You know, once the utility company goes in, sometimes it's multiple.

They go in, they complete the work sign off, then we can schedule that street for resurfacing.

I'd also like to talk about a little bit about the logistics of our pothole repair process.

We pick up asphalt, bituminous concrete every morning when we're doing this work in Hyde Park.

That way we're ensuring that we're getting a real high quality aggregate, which is gonna which is gonna hold longer and last longer in the defect.

The 311 service requests that come in, we organize those by neighborhood, and then we assign them to the respective uh public works district yards.

Crews then you know prioritize based on you know the most efficient way to complete the work.

Um, but also they're not just doing the reported cases.

So if they get a case on a street and they show up and there's you know a half a dozen other potholes around, maybe there's a uh damaged uh utility casting, they're addressing those potholes as well.

Since 2021, pothole repair closures um have matched incoming demand across districts.

Our average resolution time is is 18 hours, which is we think pretty impressive, uh and over two-thirds of all cases are completed within a 24-hour period.

Again, I think this demonstrates that we've you know we've put a lot of resources into addressing this issue.

Um repair activity does you know fluctuate significantly seasonally.

Um, but you know, you can see on the graph here, uh long-term uh repair trends have remained stable.

Um early 26 trends are in line with uh previous previous years.

You know, we certainly did see an increase uh in early March, but you know, you can see from the graph there's been you know you can see that seasonal nature of the work on the left, um, and then you can you know demonstrates that there's been really no slowdown in this activity.

Um, you know, while pothole repair activity does fluctuate seasonally, um again, you could see on the right, you can see 2026 trends are are in line with other years.

So, out of all the pothole cases open so far in 2026, 74% have been closed by the district.

Um of those have gone to our construction inspection unit, and that is the team that works specifically with our utility partners uh to address defects around their infrastructure.

And then the remaining uh 19% uh go to Norman and his team because they're part of you know, part of roadways that are going to be either reconstructed or resurfacing, resurfaced.

Uh again, but that said, we you know we always address something temporarily until until that work happens.

So again, as I mentioned earlier, we you know we do have this shared responsibility for infrastructure maintenance within within the public way.

Uh utility companies are responsible for maintaining their own infrastructure.

Um, you know, many reported potholes are in fact defects around utility cuts and castings, as I mentioned earlier.

Um we do refer these directly to the utility companies.

You know, we regular inspect these locations and you know to ensure that they're doing their part and helping with this work.

So with that, uh we welcome uh any questions that you may have.

Uh we have we have our subject matter experts here from the team who can who can help us uh answer any questions.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief.

I'm gonna give um each counselor maybe eight minutes, and then I'll I'll let you go first, John, and then um I'll go after you.

Maybe other counselors might be here.

Um, but I'll I'll give us eight minutes and then we have we have to go to a second round, we'll do a second round.

Yep.

Sounds like a plan.

Uh thank you, Chair.

And again, thank you, panel uh for being here.

I will start only because uh I'm sure as all of us uh coming into work every day and leaving, just looking at the uh the timeline for state Congress uh and the weaving in and out of that landmine filled uh of utilities uh that also seem pretty old.

A lot of them see I've seen some some broken ones, and I know that's on the utility companies.

Um, but that's just you know, uh taking a write on a Congress every day out of this building.

You're like, oh boy, let's let's go, right?

Uh what's what do we got for the timeline there?

Uh so uh Congress Street uh was was milled uh I think it was early last week.

Yes, um and so um you know we've got a number of streets downtown right now that we've milled that we're working to complete, resurface, put down fresh pavement markings in advance of the first FIFA match and all the other events this summer.

So you know, we prioritize Congress, state, a bunch of these other streets uh surface Atlantic.

So um I think the first pavement's going down, I believe what, Sunday night or Monday?

Okay, yeah, Sunday night, uh weather permitting.

So all this stuff downtown that you've seen milled.

The casting work is is done, pavement will weather permitting will start going down this weekend.

And forgive my ignorance, but casting work means.

So if you've got um a utility, you know, you've got either a manhole or you've got a water box, um, something in the roadway, that casting sits up.

And so when whenever we're doing this type of work, you know, if that casting, whatever it is, needs to be reset, repaired, replaced.

Um, you'll often see, like if you're out on Congress today, you'll see that you know that it's been mounded around the casting because you want to make sure you get that set well, right?

Before you go in and put down that first binder code.

Um from personal experience, uh uh earlier this year, or maybe it was in the fall, uh, Neponset Ave was milled, um, and it looks great now.

Uh, but that the the time I guess my question is about the time difference in between when it is uh you know scarified or milled into when it is paved.

Sometimes it's a couple of weeks.

So um, you know, residents every day and myself included, just like out in Congress, we're dodging and weaving and for the most time we're doing okay.

Um, and then one day sniper, boom, boom, two tires, right?

Right over a uh, you know, either probably looking at my phone while I'm driving, doing things I shouldn't be.

But um, and so I went, oh man, and you know, cost significant I was right next to Hannibal's auto repair, thankfully, was able to pull in uh get it repaired.

What is the um what is to the typical timeline between when something is milled to when it is paved?

Uh, because people understand you got to live through this stuff to do it, but then uh, you know, there's only so long you can do it before it's gonna get you, right?

Like it did to me.

And so um, just what is what is that typical timeline?

Yeah, it's it's well, when I I'll let Norman answer that.

So typically with that, um, we're we're doing so there's this three phases to this, right?

There's a milling factor rubber when we take out two inches of milling, we grind it down.

Then we have to reset the castings, and that's the process with that.

Then once we set the casting, then we do the overlay.

Um, with that process aside here, depending on the length of streets.

So the streets we're looking at, like the downtown area, the positive, the quadrant street, so forth.

Streets that are large like that, it takes a little more.

As you said, there's a lot of castings out there, so that's a lot of repairs to to fix.

Of course, if the castings aren't fixed, that's where you get the tilting and you get the unlevel surfacing.

So you want to level those off.

So the more castings you have out there, that takes more time to get those completed to then do the resurfacing.

Gotcha.

And is it is it on the utilities to reset their castings?

Or is that work that the city does?

Utility sets some castings, um, some casting set by some utilities and the construction crew that's working out this set of the secure uh is that typical the longest time frame of that of that whole process?

Yes.

So you usually with that.

Is it on the utility companies?

Yeah, you asked the time inside that.

It was like, you know, you usually is three phases, like three different phases.

Like within a week, right?

Yeah.

But but with with the time and the length of streets, that's a longer term.

There was just more castings, more product you have to put down.

Um also considering the time of day where we're working, right?

We're restricted to nights for the downtown area.

Sometimes there's in the residential areas is more days.

Um, and then it causes so much confusion or issues with traffic flow.

So we have to keep a TMP, uh, a traffic management plan in place to allow cars to be uh to traverse through there as we're doing it.

And I was told, you know, oh, reach out to the city for uh reimbursement.

Uh and so I I tried that, right?

Because it's a hefty price, and they uh they said, Yeah, I never heard of you, and I said that's fine.

Most people in this building haven't.

And they said uh we uh you're denied, right?

And I said, okay, fair enough.

Like, right?

I'm not not gonna fight City Hall on this one.

And uh I was just wondering what is the level of to which someone is reimbursed versus which they which they aren't, just for the the education of the public, right?

Like, okay, uh I feel like I'm in the right, I can call City Hall and appeal to have a reimbursement for the damage done, or why why not?

Yeah, no, great, great question, counselor.

You know, the the essentially the appeals process is run through um the city clerk's office, and you know, every every appeal um is uh you know, or request for reimbursement is dealt with on a on a case by case basis, depending upon you know what the circumstances of you know what the damage was and what the what the roadway condition of.

Sorry, I don't know what the circumstances are.

No, no, that's that's fine.

But is it something about signal they said something that was properly notified?

It's probably signed and notified, and therefore, you know, indemnifies uh the city, so to speak, and is that so as long as the right signage is up, no matter how long the road is milled uh or or not repaved at the moment, no matter how long, as long as signage is up.

I think that is the that's what I was told.

Does that sound correct?

Correct.

And and appreciate you bringing this up.

This is you know, we always ask that people slow down slow down around active construction, obviously, but particularly when a roadway is milled.

We really really ask people to slow down, um, you know, not just for damage to their vehicle, but uh, you know, the without pavement markings, right?

The the roadway can be confusing, particularly if it's not a street that you travel every day.

So, yeah, we really do ask people to slow down uh when we're doing milling work.

I agree with that.

Um lastly, in terms of people reporting uh potholes when they see them.

Uh typically they go through 311.

Are you guys doing anything to sort of update that or are there new things that we can talk about?

Um, and you could teach us about that process that's going on and maybe what we're doing to improve it.

Sure.

Uh and I'm gonna I'll let kind of Danny answer the second half, but um, yeah, so you know the city has had the 3-1-1 system for for a long time.

We are uh there is a larger effort ongoing right now to kind of update and upgrade that system.

Um, but you know, 70% of the 311 requests that come in in the city come into public works, so you know, it is a tool that we rely on not only for how we manage and dispatch our work, but it's also you know, our the basis of our kind of relationship and civic engagement with you know people who live and work here, right?

They trust the system, they know that if they put something in there, it's gonna get addressed.

Uh, and you know, potholes is is one of those examples.

But I'll let I'll let Danny kind of answer some of the more specifics of that work.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thanks, counselor.

So 311, like the back operating the back office operating system, excuse me, has been around um just since the time the Red Sox won the world series in 2004.

So it's aging, um, it's limited in what it can do, but it is effective.

Um we've we've grown accustomed to it and worked with it.

As you can imagine, some 26, 20 years later, 22 years later, um, the advancements made in technology uh in computer systems and everything is has grown, you know, a hundredfold.

So we are in the process now, um Norman, my team and Norman's team of figuring out the the process mapping and how we're gonna handle these cases going forward.

Um some of our departments, our street lighting department and actually parks department have already kind of moved over to the new system and they're seeing great results.

Um so we're excited about it.

We're you know, having meetings almost daily now with um do it and the analysts up there, and that they've they've done well the past year to really dive in with our crews, take rides our you know, hours with our patch crews and our supervisors throughout the city to kind of get the feel for what we do and making the system fit to what we need.

Whereas we kind of made um what we do, we made it to kind of fit to what the old 311 system is.

So 311 is still the best way.

Um, you know, a picture, you know, it doesn't have to be a close-up picture, but just so we can get kind of um perspective on where it is, and you know, correct addresses.

Uh people, you know, a lot of times folks get confused because the GPS on their phone, if they're creating with the phone, could be off as much as like a hundred yards.

So that's you know, that's a big difference in a city, right?

And in the north end, that could be three streets over, right?

So the new system, there's there's some things to address that, including contact details.

We're not tracking you to charge you, you know, later.

Um, we just want a contact.

So, so hey, I'm out, I'm here at your case, I don't see it.

Could you give me some more perspective on where it is?

So just opens up the communication.

So I'm really excited about the new system going forward.

Um, we'll be better internally the way we handle cases and pass cases off back and forth, right?

So a lot of times the case will come in, the highway crews will go out, they'll put a small band-aid on it, um, knowing that all right, this this is this needs to be uh uh it's a bigger issue, it needs you know, it needs more work.

They refer it to Norman's engineering team, and then they include it in a part of a uh a program going forward.

So it's making that communication way more easy.

That's great.

That's great to hear.

I love the efficiency.

Uh Norman, Danny, uh thank you very much for all you do and Nick.

Uh I don't know uh if people tell you enough, but you're doing a fantastic job uh in the interim, and so uh please keep it up.

Thank you guys, thank you, Jim.

Thank you, Council Fitzdarrell.

Again, want to remind anyone in the audience if you would like to testify, there's a sign-in sheet right near the door on the left-hand side if you'd like to sign your name, and we'll call you probably right after me, and then we'll go into public testimony.

If there is public testimony, but again, if anyone would like to testify, um, we would love to hear your opinion.

Um thank you, Council Fitchero.

Um Chief, you mentioned, I think at your beginning, that work crews go in the morning to Hypac to get um asphalt or so tell me about that process.

What do they what do they get there and how do they pick it up?

How do they distribute it distribute it to other locations?

Sure, thanks, counselor.

Yeah, so that is you know that's the closest place for us to pick up um aggregate in the morning.

So, you know, the cruiser dispatch from the respective district district yard uh can be anywhere from like a two to four-man crew, right?

Couple trucks, they're gonna they're gonna base the amount of material that they pick up right based on the on the work plan for the day.

They get loaded at the plant.

Uh, there's generally a lot of other people there getting getting mixed for the day as well, not just for potholes, but you know, maybe particularly during resurfacing season, right?

Um so they go and then from there they go to their map of locations.

Um, and again, you know, there they may go with you know two 311 cases, but if they show up and there's additional work, uh they're gonna make those those repairs while they're there.

Okay.

If a resident, and I I use this opportunity often, especially for seniors that might be watching on television, they might not be free uh familiar with the 311 system.

But if a resident is not using the 311 system and they want to call in a pothole, are they allowed to do that?

Oh, absolutely, yeah.

They could call, email, whatever.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay, what phone number would they use?

We'd still encourage them to use the 311 line that's staffed, you know, um, you know, 24-7.

But that said, you know, we have we have folks who contact either the BTD or public works office.

We have people drop in sometimes, you know, if they're here, maybe paying a parking ticket or something else.

So uh yeah, we we're welcome and encourage people, we encourage people to use 311, but um, you know, if you're here, or you're real more comfortable having a phone conversation, we we encourage you to do that.

Okay, and if the public works team is out doing potholes, uh, that someone called in, and there's say there's a couple others in and around the area, maybe maybe a street over.

Tell me about the process of does that have to be in the 311 system before they do it, or if they see it, can they put can they go ahead and uh fill it in?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think you know the nature of of pothole work, right?

Like like frankly, a bunch of other work that we do, right?

That work, people see us.

We'll often prompt people like, whoa, well, you know, I could use some potholes here.

And in some cases, you know, we're able to address that in real time, right?

Because the individual district yards are managing their their respective 311 queue.

So that's that's one of the reasons we do encourage people to to use that because that is the quickest way to get that information to those to those teams.

So in some cases, yeah, we might have a crew working two streets over, they get a 3-1-1 case, they might get they might be able to jump over there that that same day.

Council, I will say the reports we get each day from the patch crews, usually it's something like this.

There's a couple pictures associated with it, but they'll say we you know, we picked up two and a half tons of asphalt.

We uh handled uh 13 CRMs, which is the constituent uh, which is the three the case generated by 311, and then they'll say we did 46 other repairs.

So those are typically smaller, you know, small potholes or larger potholes, right?

Whatever they see in the immediate area.

We typically don't count them for this data, just because it's it's it you know it it's difficult to kind of go back and and quantify you know as we go along, so we just kind of stick to for the data wise.

It's just 311 cases, but as these guys are out on the roadway, they're not gonna drive by something that needs to be fixed.

It's also um as soon as they get rid of the patch, you know, they go on break.

So, you know, the the and it's as it cools on the back of the truck, it becomes more difficult to work with.

So they want to get it out of the truck, it's easier to work with, it's a better um, it's a better repair, the warmer it is as they go, which is why we only get like two, two and a half tons per day.

So, so when the public works crew is putting down, so it's is it asphalt that putting down?

Correct.

Yeah, okay.

So they're putting down asphalt onto the road.

What is the road?

Is the road entirely asphalt?

Yeah, bituminous concrete, yep.

Okay.

Yes, yep.

It will be a different type of mix.

So you're you're you're resurfacing your repaving mix is a is a sturdier mix.

This the the um the pothole kind of the the patching mix is it's it's smaller aggregate, a little bit more sticky sometimes um to help with the repair.

Okay, yeah, that was my question is: is it frequent that when you fill a pothole, because it's because it's not entirely the same as what the road is already um, what the road is, but is there likely the chance that that pothole will need to be refilled a couple years later?

Yeah, unfortunately, and sometimes even shorter than that comes out.

Like, and it really depends upon what the underlying issue is with the defect, right?

So if it's if it's a pothole that's like next to a utility casting and there's water infiltration getting into that manhole or whatever it is, you know, unfortunately that can that can repeatedly reopen.

Uh same if it's uh you know, if it's a washout and there's water getting through the sub base, that can that can be a problem.

Uh, and and frankly, as some of the streets are just older, um, the condition of that sub-base aggregate just gets to a point where it you know it it won't hold the material uh is as long.

It is is the asphalt that we use is that the most effective um material that we that we that's on the market.

It it we find it the most uh effective and efficient to to work with.

Um, you know, there are there are some other methods and products um you know that are used for kind of uh sp real unique cases.

So for example, um next next week as part of the green line diversion out in Cleveland Circle.

Um you've got the green line track in Cleveland Circle, there's there's some really bad defective payment around that infrastructure, and the MBTA is going to be coming in taking advantage um of that of that temporary closure uh to use a different type of material and process.

It's uh it's a thermal heated process around the track bed, and and generally, you know, that that pavement um will that you know repair will hold a lot longer than a typical um uh pothole.

Okay, I'm having a walk through of the south end in the back bay, mostly the back bay area next Friday, May 15th at 1 p.m.

We're starting at the Marriott Copley.

This is residents requested me to kind of do a walk through with them, which is 110 Huntington Avenue, but want to invite DTD Transportation and DPW Public Works.

If if you would like to join me, I believe uh police officer is joining us too.

We're just discussing quality of life issues, public safety, but want to want to extend the invitation to you, and that's at the request of I represent a small part of the Back Bay down towards St.

Patolf Street, near the Marriott, near the uh Copley area.

We appreciate the invite, Council, and yes, we will be.

Okay, thank you.

Um, so Chief, you mentioned already Congress Street and State Street, and I know Norman is doing um a good a good job, and I know Danny's doing a good job.

Um, and and I actually have a couple I have a resident, a friend of mine, Suzanne that lives in the Wharf district, which is right down the road from um State Street.

But on Congress Street itself, and I know you spoke about it, but when the manhole cover is, say, what is it about three or four inches higher now than like the road itself, right?

Um, but you but I uh I see people when they're driving, as John was mentioning, but I do see people when they're driving because the the manhole they almost take a shop left or a shop right to avoid the the manhole, but they're not putting their blinker on, yeah, because they they see it at the last second, and I haven't seen any accidents to be honest with you, but it's a good place to get into an accident because if you're not paying attention and you're making a sharp jerk to the left or a shop jerk to the right, is that something you factor into?

Yeah, and a lot of times you'll see us kind of do like spray paint around a casting because we're trying to grab people's attention.

But you know, it for exactly the reason that you've described, that's really why we're asking people to slow down.

You know, if they're going slow enough, they really shouldn't have to make that type of move.

But you know, if somebody's in a really low clearance vehicle or something and they don't want to uh hit that, that you know, people have time to be able to uh react to that.

Okay, I know I'm out of time.

I'm gonna give John another opportunity.

But let me let me just ask one more question before I go to John.

Probably my favorite street in in Boston.

Um I love State Street.

I've always I've always loved State Street, love the old the old buildings.

Um how are we doing on State Street, whether it's potholes, whether it's just quality of life, whether it's um cleanliness, but I always kind of think of that street as is kind of being the you know the street of commerce or the the residential area as well.

But um, you know, it leads up to Congress, it leads up to you know, heading towards the Tremont Street to towards Boston Common in a way.

Um but what do you what do you think about um State Street?

Yeah, counselor, yes, one of the oldest streets in the city, a lot of a lot of history there.

Um we we have milled it from Surface Road up to up to Court Street here behind us.

Um that is short-term work.

Um, there is a larger reconstruction project for State Street that is nearing uh completion of design.

Uh, that we are looking to move into construction in the next year or two.

Um, as part of this resurfacing project, this week we did this short term because the roadway was in really poor condition going into the summer, and to your point, we're gonna have a lot of visitors.

What one of the interesting things about State Street is State Street, while certainly carries a high number of vehicles, it actually carries more pedestrians every day.

Um, so in anticipation of that of what the visitors we're gonna see this summer, we want to make sure that that roadway was in it was in good condition.

So this is a very temporary resurfacing work in advance of that larger project that we we hope to move forward soon.

Okay.

Um so I finished my questions for the first round.

Um, do you want to take any public testimony?

If anyone would like to testify, okay.

Doesn't appear that anyone has signed up.

Um, if if you if you're watching on television, you still want to testify, you can certainly send us an email and it will get added into the record.

I will make sure that um all the counselors receive it.

So if you do want to testify and send in your written comments, please do.

You can send it to Shane Pack.

So it's Shane S H-A-N-E.

P A C at Boston.gov.

And Shane will make sure that City Council has received the testimony.

But others all also can email me directly because I love reading these comments from residents.

You can send it to me directly at ed.flyn at Boston.gov.

I'm going to give counselor Fitzgerald.

We'll do another eight minutes and um and that might that might be it.

Yeah.

Councillor Fitzgerald, you have the floor.

Thank you.

And I don't know if I'll take all eight.

But one first and foremost, just wanted to shout out public works district three yard, and that isn't within district three council-wise too.

But Andre Cornegy uh runs a tight ship uh and does great work over there.

And um actually when it was I wasn't even uh elected a week, and I went over to visit and did a ride around with him, and it was awesome.

He really helped uh helped me understand and set the tone for the important work the city does and what I'm up here to advocate for.

Um two, we had some of you guys in front of us uh earlier this week for the BTD and public works budget, and I'm thinking about potholes specifically because Omar brought up, hey, when you guys are making amendments and you took away from us last year, we ran out of money to fill potholes that came out of that that line item in the budget.

Um, and that that hit me because I'm like, oh no, right?

That just the the great the gravity of the decisions we have to make in order to fill, but the realistic impacts that come out of that of hey, we ran out of money to buy patch to fill potholes, which is really one of again the most basic city services people want to see.

Um I I don't want that to occur again, and so uh do we feel like we did we we did run out, and when we do what what what happens, like right?

I mean, what are you guys left with?

Because some of the decisions we have to make, what are the hard decisions and how do you stretch what you have, or do you just have to say at times we can't get to that pothole right now because we don't have the money?

So I can take that one.

So, yeah, um what Omar was speaking about.

So we use cold patch as well.

So the hot asphalt that we go to the plant to pick up every morning.

Yep.

We also um we're buying uh bags of cold patch, which is uh it's a bag material comes up, 20-pound bag.

Uh we use that for like off hours, like let's say you know in the afternoon or overnight, uh a big pothole comes in.

That's a problem, right?

It's not something that you can put a barrel on or a cone, depending on where it is.

You know, the off-hour crews will use that cold patch to fill it.

In the past 10 years, the technology there has improved immensely.

It's it's it's a great product.

However, it's very expensive, way more expensive.

I would say probably a 20 pound bag is probably just as much as a ton of the regular stuff.

So it's so that's what he was speaking of that we couldn't we couldn't purchase any uh anymore.

Um we've always had access to the you know the the plant asphalt, yeah.

How often how often is the coal patch used in terms of or how maybe how much do you go through typically like what is the what is the year number that we a where we we budget to buy X amount, but we could if we needed it at all, we we'd buy Y amount.

Great question.

And if you asked Darlene last night, she would have told you we use it way too much.

Yeah, she's the one in charge of keeping track of how much we spent.

So um it's very expensive.

The guys like the convenience of it, but sure.

If they just get one pot, let's see it to Friday morning, they only have one pothole.

They'll say, Let's use the cold patch, right?

And I try not to dissuade it, but you know, dialing in and keeping track of the money says no, no, that waits until Monday.

So you know, that's kind of the the give and take of you know of where we are.

Understood.

Okay, in my previous job in taking care of the marine industrial park, uh named after Ed's father.

Um we use coal patch to fill the potholes on those roads, obviously with all the trucks and stuff coming through, but I don't think I was aware of uh, and not nearly as much as you guys had to.

We don't have as many miles of roadway, of course, in a marine industrial park, but still I don't think I was aware of uh how far it's come and how expensive it is now.

Yeah, probably back then there was probably a pile of it in a yard somewhere, right?

A pile of cold packs.

If someone would have to go put some diesel on and turn over, um now it comes in a bag and it comes out of the bag, it's exactly it's great.

Yep, great.

Um, and then uh I'll end with this.

Uh, uh we don't have to spend that much time because it's a uh this is like a sports talk radio Friday.

Ask me anything, right?

But in a are we ever thinking about different ways to set build our roads?

And what I mean by that is can we is there the technology, the the different type of materials, the upgrades where to get to uh the utilities to open up the road to repave uh to to not have potholes.

Is there anything in the future that's even showing a glimpse of hope of a completely different way to create a road and and what I guess would be your ideal road, knowing the problems that you run into every day.

What we gotta open up, we gotta dig, we gotta cut, fill potholes, um, you know, we gotta we gotta mill.

What is the ideal road look like that makes all that stuff a little bit easier, right?

Uh, and I I don't know, right?

I I just I I try to throw I'd love to throw out an example, but my expertise uh falls far short.

Yeah, I I think you know, I think first and foremost, you know, again, because of the age of this city, you know, we we have utility infrastructure in the city that is you know almost a century old, and so some cases even longer, right?

And so, you know, getting our and there is a the utilities are putting a big investment into upgrading that infrastructure, and so you know, over time, getting that infrastructure um to the place that it needs to be, you know, yeah, in a perfect world, we would construct a roadway in concrete with with perfect drainage and um, you know, with you know, it but that unfortunately isn't you know uh realistic here, but you know, I will say every time, right, and particularly now because we're investing so much in ramps, right?

We are as we're doing even roadway resurfacing, not full full reconstruction.

These opportunities when we're doing ramps gives us that extra ability to address like if you've got a defect where you've got puddling near an intersection or a crosswalk, right?

We're able to address some of that now to kind of improve that roadway condition uh for the future.

Great.

So concrete would be the ideal.

I'm just right, is that the material that would be the best at this moment, given right what we know what we have, a concrete road would be the best?

But frankly, I mean, not it's just like cost prohibitive, but no, I understand the impossibleness of it.

But also, you know, in Northeast climates, cold weather climates has its own uh maintenance challenges in the winter.

Uh so you know, not just not unfortunately the ideal aggregate for here.

Awesome.

No, uh that concludes my questions.

Uh Chair.

Once again, thank you guys as always for all you do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council for Sterald.

I also want to give myself eight minutes as well.

Um Chief, I'm gonna ask a couple, I'm gonna ask some random questions that constituents um asked me, but but on the federal decree, so the and this has been this has been much before your time.

It's been going on for what seven or eight years or so.

But are we are we required to put the ramp for for persons with disabilities in a wheelchair?

Are we required to put the ramp inside the crosswalk?

Is that is that what we're one of the things we're required to do?

Yes.

Uh the but I will say um the actual location in grade of every ramp is different, right, depending upon where it falls, either at you know, a mid-block crossing or an intersection.

So, what makes what makes this work so challenging is you know, there isn't a there isn't a ramp template, right?

Every single ramp that we rebuild is its own mini design, right?

And has to be, you know, the grades have to be shot.

We have to, you know, you know, make sure it gets poured correctly.

Um so that is that is what makes this uh work so time-consuming but also expensive.

Okay, and I'm gonna bounce around from issue to issue, but and um no particular order.

But so if you if you're going down a street and there's the the street is is is is going downhill um in a kind of and kind of levels out and that's where a lot of water may um end up does that water have an impact on opening up potholes yes absolutely if there is not appropriate uh stormwater infrastructure to capture that and remove it um that example of pooling water certainly at the base of the hill is uh a significant um contributor to to these types of roadway defects okay and so I I assume part of the process or part of the solution is working closely with water and sewer department yes yeah they're one they are one of the utilities that yeah we work very closely with uh when we're doing both resurfacing and when we're doing you know full depth reconstruction of a roadway that is when we're often take trying to take advantage of of you know if if stormwater infrastructure needs to be relocated maybe to capture water better that's those are the exact type of improvements that we're looking to make okay you know that I represent Chinatown in Chinatown is very dense neighborhood um old neighborhood old water and sewer pipes as you know maybe one of the oldest in the city we have challenges with the with the pipes um rupturing but what when there when there is a um a water main break say say in Chinatown um the the water and sewer crew has to come in um in in and fix it but then tell me what the procedure is in terms of public works working with water and sewer as it relates to addressing potholes and in uh fixing the street sure and uh you know counselors you know we've had we've had a number of water breaks um this year and you know boston water sewer when when when we have a water main break you know they have kind of site control they take responsibility uh they do a great job at this they always they're in close communication with us letting us know where they're at schedule wise plan for repair we coordinate that work with them um you know but they they're responsible for basically essentially restoring um the the roadway to you know uh previous condition but obviously you know when we have a major issue like that we're gonna go in and assess that you know after the event and you know that that is an example of how a road may get reprioritized up on on the resurfacing list if we've had a had an issue like that okay so so if that if that takes place that so water but public works would come in and take a look at the at the road or the street and see um if there's any potholes in in and around the street but also to ensure that the uh road looks as if nothing happened to it prior to the water main breakers up yeah yes and as you know you know we we've had some water means this year that haven't just impacted roadway conditions they buckled sidewalk and pushed curb up so yeah we're we'll you know we go in and evaluate all of that okay okay um let me let me continue and this is a resident resident in Dorchester I think John may have mentioned this the stretch of Dorchester Avenue re resurfaced from Freeport Street to Savon Hill Avenue um has an needs some work is that is that on your list too that area it's uh I don't represent it but I just got an email from what was the street again it's um the stretch of Dorchester Avenue from Freeport Street to Savon Hill Avenue.

Yeah, so that so that car right now is being constructed by doing we're doing a ramps net locations right now up the corridor there from Savonio Lab all the way up to Freeboy.

I actually wear a freeport as of right now.

Okay, constructing ramps.

Uh once the ramps done, um we then start to look to schedule to do a resurfacing.

Okay.

I have to go back to the books and see where we're at with the resurfacing for this year for that particular section.

Okay, thank you, Norman.

That was from Donna from Dorchester.

Um a constituent of mine redesign of Washington Street in the downtown Chinatown stretch.

Any updates or insights would be appreciated.

Um you familiar with that?

Um Washington Street in downtown Boston and into Chinatown.

So Washington Street.

So we're we're asking we're resurfacing Washington Street from Neeland up to Lafayette uh this year.

Um it's gonna go in kind of like it would is right now, a little bit of configuration changes inside the not configurations, more changes, make more permanent fixes on it with the the flex posts are and we're gonna take advantage of um uh upgrading on that.

But as far as we surfacing, we're coming right up Washington Street and and um resurfacing that we did Essay Street last year.

Yeah, completing through as we're doing this year Chinatown beach in Harrison, right?

We just milled out Beach Street uh last night.

Okay, on oh beach on beach in Chinatown.

Yeah, beach in Chinatown from um from Harrison to Washington, and then we're gonna get the other piece from uh uh Tyler to to Harrison and as well as Harrison.

Okay.

No, that's that's excellent, thank you, Norman.

The the excuse me.

The elderly people in Chinatown often ask me and I've I've requested this, but the um sidewalks on Beach Street are are in rough shape.

Um that they did the sidewalks on Beach Street in the Leather District, which is just over just over the ways, but not Chinatown.

But what do you think about that, Chief?

Um in terms of beach street sidewalks.

Yeah, I think I think we we we certainly have some short-term um sidewalk repairs in a few locations in Chinatown.

But in addition to that, we're also um planning to kick off uh uh a longer um a larger and longer planning effort on how to upgrade um all of the sidewalks in in Chinatown, and that's that's something that we'll be out, you know, talking to the community about later this year.

Okay, okay.

I received a a request uh question really from David.

He basically asked me um or he suggested um to make it a requirement that when utility companies or any entity that digs up the street, they must repave at least 50 feet in either direction of what was dug up using the same level of quality as the city does when it repaves the streets.

What do you think about that?

Yeah, I I mean we you know what we require the utility to do varies kind of on a case by case basis, but you know, for example, if they've had to, you know, go in and excavate something that's caused like significant damage to uh you know like more than 50 percent of the roadway segment.

Yeah, we'll we'll go in and make them resurface curb to curb.

Okay.

And again, I have one other one other well, yeah.

One other question.

Tell us again, um Nick for the audience when they see a pothole, tell us the procedure for um getting the best um most effective way to get it done.

What's the best way for residents to uh to do that?

Either 311 is the best way, call app, email, whatever your preferences, but you're always welcome to contact either the public works office or or transportation office upstairs as well.

So if someone puts in a three-one one into the app about a particular dress address, um, how fast would that get filled?

Our average uh case closure time is is 18 hours right now.

Okay.

Um but in some cases, you know, but but as I mentioned, I think two-thirds of all cases are done um within uh 24 hours.

So it is, you know, generally a pothole is gonna get done within a day or two uh at most.

Okay.

And if it's longer than that, is there something that pops up on your system that that says it hasn't been done and we need to get it done?

Is that how it would work?

Yeah.

Currently, as they sit in the queue, counselor, it's either green if it's under the SLA, which is kind of the internal shot clock that we have to fix it right now for a just a standard service level agreement for right now.

So it's 24 hours for a standard pothole for us to get it done.

And it'll be a little green icon next to it.

Once it goes over that SLA, it turns it turns red.

Okay.

So as they're looking at their list, you know, which might have, you know, 12 cases.

They work backwards.

They try to get the red ones first, obviously.

Okay.

Maybe two other questions.

Um Chief, I just had a some constituents uh from my neighborhood in South Boston.

Are you I think I think Danny might be familiar with it, but do you know where MS and Auto is?

Okay.

Um we've had some issues there, ticketing and towing.

Um I don't want to necessarily go into all the details, but um, could you I've sent I've sent a message to you on this, but could I follow up with you after the meeting and um see if there's anything we could we can do to support the residents?

Um happy to counselor.

And and part of it, um I don't want to get into it because it's not it's a it's a different issue, but part of it is the seven nights per week residential park, residential parking that's needed, but um what we can talk after.

I don't I don't want to I don't want to mix the two, okay.

Um I do have a I do have a letter, um a letter of absence from one of my colleagues that I would like to read into the record.

So City Council Henry Santana.

Dear Chief Flynn, colleagues on the Committee of City Services, I regret to inform you that I am unable to attend today's hearing on Docker 0515 order for a hearing to discuss the status of addressing potholes in the city of Boston.

I'd like to express my gratitude to Chair Flynn for sponsoring holding this hearing on this very important topic topic.

I look forward to reviewing the valuable insights and the discussion in the committee's report and recommended next steps.

Uh City Council Henry Santana.

Um Chief, my last question, I guess during this budget process, are you confident that you have enough funding in the FY 27 budget?

And Danny, you too and Norman as well.

Are you confident we have enough money for um pothole repairs?

Yes, and I I would say not just pothole repairs, but I think we we have sufficient funding uh to support a really strong uh pavement maintenance program uh next year.

Okay, um, no.

Okay, okay.

Counselor, if I if you I have just one kind of general remark if that's okay.

Yeah, that's yeah, of course.

I just I want to I won't it would be it wouldn't be appropriate to not take this minute and like recognize the people who actually do this work.

You know, Norman and and Danny provide incredible credible leadership here, but you know the work of actually going out and physically shoveling two and a half tons of hot mix is really labor intensive.

It's hard, you're working in in the in the street, um, it can be dangerous work, and I just want to acknowledge and thank those folks who do that work for us every day.

Oftentimes, you know, in the early spring, it's it might be after a night they've been out doing snow and ice.

So uh just want to recognize and appreciate their work and and ask people that when you see these teams doing that that work, please slow down, be careful.

You know, they're they're very vulnerable to the roadway.

No, that's a that's a good point, Nick.

I I agree with you.

I also want to acknowledge the professional work, the the workers do um fixing and filling potholes.

Um when they're filling potholes, how hot does it get, especially in the summertime?

Is it how hot uh is that asphalt that they're working with?

Yeah, so it it cools slower in the summer.

Um, in the winter, as as Danny mentioned, you know, they're they're hustling to get that mix uh out of the truck because you know, when it as it cools, it gets harder and harder to work with um in the summertime you know if that that mix can stay warmer um but you know I think when it's coming out it's what 180 I was yeah eight hundred into my head too yeah it and so Nick and Danny they and Norman all the workers have to um you know safety is a is is um something you stress but tell me about the safety aspect of um what you provide what are the guidelines for people that are for workers that are filling the potholes sure yeah so we um uh they have a boot allowance right so you know a nice pair of sturdy boots um you'll see the pavers so in each yard there's what we call uh uh an employee who's the paver it's a rating right it's a it's a job description it's what it's what they do uh most of the time um they'll have their patch clothes so they'll have you know in the yard they'll have their locker and they'll it's um you know coveralls or overalls or whatever they whatever they use gloves right eye protection uh high vis vest all provided by the city if if a piece of that asphalt ever hit you hit your skin it's gonna burn isn't it um not necessarily not by the time you start shoveling it it cools considerably um Norman and I patched together for years um it's it's it's not coming you don't want to get it on you because it's it's dirty it's difficult to wash off um so you do you know you get hit once you learn a lesson very quickly you know to cover everything as you go when you're breathing that in that's a strong that's a strong odor is that still the case it is but you're outdoors and as long as you downwind it you know it's not a confined space um and it you know I might be a little strange I actually enjoyed the smell um but yeah it's not um as long as you you're in a well ventilated area it's fine and the workers that are doing that they have an opportunity after they complete it or even during or during the work but they have an opportunity to take a break and have a glass of water or oh yeah absolutely okay okay um do they do the workers put out orange um cones when they're doing the work when needed yeah yes okay uh I mean yes and usually we whenever we can we have a follow so any on any of the main drags the the busy streets will have a follow vehicle with with in both vehicles the the patch truck and the follow vehicle will have emergency lights on it um to kind of block traffic um and they'll set that truck up to protect exactly so that you'll have like the hot mix truck in front yeah that they're they're and and but the the truck behind will be kind of set up to protect them.

When we do roads like Rutherford Abo larger streets will we will get a police detail.

Okay but but the the street is not necessarily closed for vehicle traffic though is it?

Very very rarely yeah is there a recommended speed limit um when you're passing a truck or um what is the what is the role of the the vehicle of the driver that's passing a truck what is the recommendation you would you would have you know slow as possible if you can you know if you're on a 25 mile an hour road please you know please drop down 10 or 15 yeah it's space right don't we just ask people to you know give give them give them space to you know get try to get as far like if we're taking in the if we're in the middle of the road try to get as far to the you know one side or the other as possible.

Similar to when you're passing a a police vehicle on the right hand side the law is you you are to move to the the next lane so you're not we our thoughts are what the state police state trooper that was just um hit in I think it was Route 1 maybe but our thoughts and prayers with that state trooper but I I think about other workers as well, but you know, MBTA workers I see out there as well.

But slow down.

Try to go five miles an hour if you can.

Move over, move over.

Um, and these are simple, simple recommendations, but it is important to remind people about um safety.

Safety is really the most important um aspect of it.

Um I don't have any further questions.

I I want to say thank you to Norman.

Thank you for your outstanding work and your your commitment to the residents of the city for a long long period of time.

I want to say thank you as well, Commissioner, and to Danny as well for his long time commitment to the residents of the city.

Um so I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep this hearing open in maybe six months from now, we can we can kind of review and go back and have another discussion on this.

But but on this docket, 0515.

Oh, again, I want to say thank you to Shane and I want to say thank you to Ethan.

But on this docket zero five one five, order for a hearing to discuss the status of addressing potholes in the city of Boston.

This meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.

Thank you.