Good morning.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So am I.

Okay, for the record, my name is Ben Weber.

Uh, I am the uh district six city counselor and the chair of the Ways and Means Committee.

Uh today is June fifteenth, two thousand twenty six, and the exact time is 10 33 a.m.

This hearing's being recorded.

It's also being live streamed at Boston.gov/slash city dash council dash TV and broadcasts on Xfinity Channel Eight, RCN Channel Eighty Two, and Files Channel Nine Sixty Four.

Written comments uh to uh maybe sent to the committee uh email at ccc.wm at Boston.gov and we'll be made part of the record and available to all counselors.

Public testimony will be taken at the uh at the end of we'll we'll again we'll uh we're gonna hear from the panelists, then we're gonna have questions from my fellow city counselors, and then after our first round of questions, we'll get to uh public testimony.

Everyone uh will have two minutes to testify.

If you're here to testify publicly, there's a sign-in sheet uh over there.

Please sign in.

Um even if you haven't signed in, you're here, you want to testify.

Just you know, we'll I'll raise your hand and we'll call on you uh to to speak.

Um so if you're looking to testify virtually, please email our central staff liaison, Karish Machohan at K-A-R-I-S-H-M-A.CHOUHAN at Boston.gov for the link, and your name will be added to the list.

Today's hearing is on docket number 0697, order to accept Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 59, Section 5, Clause 41D, authorizing annual increases to senior exemption income and asset limits.

Uh this proposal would essentially allow an annual increase to the income and asset eligibility limits for cities uh for the city's senior property tax exemption based on the consumer price index to be provided to the city annually by the uh Massachusetts Department of Revenue.

This matter was sponsored by counselors Rucy Louis Gen, Brian Warrell, and myself, and was referred to the committee on April 1st, 2026.

Today I'm joined by my colleagues on order of arrival, Counselor Flynn, Councillor Murphy, Councillor Louis Gen, and Councillor Warrell.

Uh I uh I'm gonna introduce our panelists and then uh do opening, yeah.

Uh well each of my colleagues will have uh a minute to give an opening statement, then we'll hear from the panel.

So we're joined today uh by Hinlin Wong, uh member of the Board of Review, incoming interim, chief of assessing for the city of Boston.

Uh, we're joined by Emily Shea, the commission commissioner of the Age Strong Commission.

We're joined by uh Carolyn uh Villers, the Executive Director of Mass Senior Action Council, and Lily Bryan, a member of the Mass Senior Action Council.

Uh so now I'm gonna uh we're gonna start with the sponsors uh first.

Counselor Louijan, Councilor Aurel, and then Councillor Flynn, Counselor Murphy.

Uh, we'll give you a minute to give an opening statement.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Weber and good morning, everyone.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you to my co-sponsors, and I want to thank all of our panelists for being here.

Sorry if my voice is a little hoarse.

I was rooting for Team Haiti weekend and uh Team Haiti at the World Cup and recovering still.

Uh, but this hearing is incredibly important.

I know that we had it scheduled for last week and we had to move it.

So I want to thank the Mass Senior Action Council for your flexibility in us moving this to accommodate um the schedule of the Ways and Means Committee.

This hearing, as many of you know, is in order to accept uh clause 41D, which would be a local option, it would allow Boston to adjust our senior tax exemptions according to the cost of living, based on cost of living adjustments.

It's a simple proposal, but it's a really important one.

Um there are other cities such as Belmont, Cambridge, Concord, Milton, who have adopted uh 41D.

And about a month ago, when I went to Mass Manufacturing Council over at Child Street AME in Roxbury, uh Carolyn passed out really helpful material that said if we had implemented 41D back in 2003, when we could have the senior tax exemption uh because of the compounding effects of uh of including cola every year, the exemption that is now somewhere at 25, 26,000 would have been 40,000.

And that would mean that more of our seniors would qualify for the senior tax exemption.

Something that I look in uh look forward to getting into with the assessing department, is what we've seen from the data when we're talking to Commissioner Aronello.

We've seen over the years slight decreases in the number of people who are eligible for the 41C exemption.

What look what adopting this local option would do is it would increase the exemption limits and the asset limits based on cost of living, such that more and more people would qualify.

So I look forward to a robust conversation.

This is something that is especially important for our legacy homeowners, for our black and brown uh homeowners who are too often house rich but cash poor.

We need to do be doing everything that we can to make uh the cost of living here in the city more affordable for our seniors who have given so much to the city who um should be able to age in place with dignity.

I will state that this proposal does not change the actual asset limit itself or the income limit itself.

That fight is currently at the state house.

This body has done its job in advancing legislation that would increase those overall limits, and there's that's a fight that we will continue and that you all continue at the State House.

What we can do here on the city on the city council without the State House's permission is adopting this 41D local option.

So I want to thank Mass Senior Action Council for being with us here today.

I want to thank my team, particularly Jesse Purvis, my director of policy, who's been working diligently on issues of affordability for our residents and for our seniors, and I look forward to this hearing to ask questions and to hear uh from residents about how we can be uh of greater use.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you very much.

I'm gonna give my colleagues uh two minutes for these time.

Counselor, you're right.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the panelists, um, and thank you to Mass Senior Action Council for being a thought part partner in the exemptions and in the laws that this body has passed previously.

Um just looking forward to making sure that we provide as much as much exemptions as possible, and then also making sure that we continue to push the state house to change um the senior tax exemption.

So thank you, just looking forward to diving into this information.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh Counselor Flynn.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you to the Mass Senior Action Council for being here, the important work you are doing.

I was here early this morning and talking to members of the Mass Senior Action Council in the P.

Monty room and listening to their concerns they were talking to me about, about about um how difficult and challenging it is for seniors in this city.

High cost of living, seniors that live in a house and property taxes are skyrocketing.

Property taxes increased double digit um over the lot twice over the last two years.

And residents, especially our seniors and persons with disabilities, people on fixed income, a lot of city retirees uh just can't afford the property taxes any longer in this city.

And they're here to this, they come to the city council for relief, and we we need to stand with you because these seniors across the city have helped build the city, and we're in the city during good times and bad times, and a lot of them were custodians and police officers and teachers and small business people and active and active in our communities, but they never gave up in Boston, and they always contributed, they never took anything from the city, always giving back.

But it's a it's our responsibility as elected officials to acknowledge your outstanding service that you've provided the residents, whether you're city workers or not, but you help build this city.

You help build this country, and I think you're asking for a little bit of respect from the city council, and I'm here to let you know that I'm gonna continue to do all I can to support our seniors and persons with disabilities.

Um also we have to support a cost of living for our um city retirees as well.

I think that's part of the solution.

A lot of these city retirees can't afford the property taxes any longer, and it's making it very difficult for them to stay in the city with skyrocketing property taxes and with the cost of food or fuel.

But it's about respecting our seniors, it's about respecting our city city workers, it's about respecting persons with disabilities, never giving up on them because they never gave up on the city of Boston.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Okay, thank you.

Councillor Murphy.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the seniors.

I know we came up on the elevator with a few of you for being here and always showing up.

You're representing not just mass senior action, but all of the seniors across the city, because we know many times most of our residents who need the most support aren't able to show up or speak up for themselves.

So thank you for raising everyone's voices.

Also, Hinlan, welcome.

Thank you for being here so we can get some real answers on the money side.

But I do want to shout out Emily Shea.

Um, thank you for all you do for our seniors.

Um just showing up all the time.

And you here in your office tries really hard, I know, to provide our seniors with everything you know that they deserve, and we know that we can always do more, but thank you for being part of this conversation, also.

And as we know, I mean, my mom, my aunts, everyone above me, right?

They're all seniors in their 80s, 90s now, and living through what you know we're gonna be talking about, where wanting to stay here in the city, many on a fixed income.

How do you balance that?

How do you continue, you know, to live out your last years in dignity in the neighborhood around your family and friends and neighbors that you've you know grown up with and raised your family in this city, so whatever way we can continue to make sure our seniors can live in dignity, and if it is a few hundred dollars for many, I hear well, is that really what is gonna make a difference?

But it really can.

It then makes the decision between getting your medications on time, buying your food, being able to, you know, take that Uber to your granddaughter's event, like those other things start ending up.

You have to eliminate things in your life when something like taxes continue to go up.

So, happy to support advocate and continue this conversation.

So thank you all for being here.

Thank you very much.

Uh yeah, so I just for folks who are here.

When when I first ran for office a couple of years ago, uh I spoke to uh a senior living in West Roxbury who was being evicted from her home, and she was saying, I can't I can't believe you know, I've I've lived here my whole life, I've raised my family here, and now I can't afford to stay here.

So that's that was the reason why, you know, on the on the council, and this body passed uh uh it started a pilot called Access to Council to provide people with attorneys for when they're housing court.

It's a small pilot, and we're it's right now it's uh providing people with kids in school if they get an eviction notice.

We get we provide them with an attorney and housing court.

The next step to expanding that pilot is to provide it to seniors across the city, something I really I hope we can work on going forward.

Uh I really love to make sure that when when seniors are being kicked out of their housing that the city's there uh to help them.

Uh, but it's also you know how how much of a struggle it is to be able to afford to be here.

So I just I want to thank my colleagues.

I really I especially I want to thank Councillor Louie Jen for for putting this forward uh and and trying to accomplish something that you know we should be able to do, help our seniors out, and then and then work, you know.

Again, this is just uh, you know, one tool.

There's a lot of other things we need to do to make sure we step up for our seniors.

I look forward to working with my colleagues on that.

So uh, with that said, I'm gonna hand things over to the panel.

Uh, do you have a presentation or uh do you would you like to say anything?

We we'll we'll go left to right.

Uh so Commissioner Shea.

All right, wonderful.

Uh so uh good morning, good morning, everybody.

Uh, Chair Weber, Councilor Louisiane, uh, City Council members.

Um, very uh grateful to be here today, and I'm glad we're able to talk about what we can do to help our older residents as we all navigate increased costs in our city.

Um, I'm gonna I know we're gonna get into a little more of the technical uh things as we get down the line here, but um what I'm gonna focus on today is just how age strong helps older people kind of navigate um some of the property tax um exemptions.

So um we uh we help people um from beginning to end, but in uh obviously in partnership with our assessing department colleagues who we um rely on and and really appreciate.

Um we explain eligibility requirements, help gather documentation, assist with completing applications, and support residents through the submission process.

We work closely with assessing to say current on eligibility requirements.

We love your trainings, um, and uh to make sure that we're up to date on the latest deadlines and documentation requirements.

Um we follow up on residents' behalf to resolve issues and to clarify any application questions.

Um from January through April of this year, HStrong partnered with city departments and community organizations to host cost-saving clinics across Boston.

These clinics bring services directly into the neighborhoods, making programs more accessible for residents facing mobility, transportation, or technology barriers.

A major focus of these clinics was helping older residents apply for all the all of the various property relief, property tax relief programs, including the elderly exemption, the 401c, and also the 17D, the veterans exemption, hardship exemption, and residential exemption.

Between January 1st and April 1st, HStrong assisted with uh assisted residents with 95 kind of elderly exemption applications, including a combination of both the 7 uh 17D and the 41C.

Um these are this is uh in addition to the residents that are able to just kind of do the applications themselves, but these are folks that needed kind of hands-on assistance with the application.

Um residents are over the income limit for 41C, we also connect them with other programs that can help lower household costs, including SNAP, fuel assistance, utility discounts, Medicare savings programs, and other available benefits.

Um, a COLA adjustment for to the 41C would help prevent older people from losing eligibility simply because their Social Security or retirement income increased slightly.

It would help keep income limits within the line of rising costs and everyday expenses, and most importantly, it would preserve access to property tax relief that allows older people on fixed incomes to remain in their home in their homes and age in place in Boston.

So we're grateful that this has been brought forward and happy to support.

Okay, yeah, Hamlin.

All right.

Uh good morning, Mr.

Chair.

Good morning, counselors.

Thank you for the invitation.

Uh, for the record, my name is Helen Long.

I'm a member of the Board of Review for the Assessing Department.

I'm here to discuss my department's role on the potential adoption of Massachusetts General Law, Section 5, Clause 41D, which would increase the income and asset limits by a cost of living adjustments to Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 59 of Section 141C, also known as the senior property tax exemption.

This is a modest but meaningful change.

Excuse me, that'll be straightforward to implement.

As a reminder, this exemption is a base amount of a thousand dollars with up to two thousand dollars off of qualifying seniors tax bill.

It is available to property owners over the age of 65 with certain income and asset limits, which I'll mention soon.

The adoption of 41D will allow the city to annually increase both allowances by the cost of living adjustment of 2.7%.

If adopted, the income limits would increase as follows.

For a single individual from 20,000 to 20,540, for a married couple from 40,000 to 4180.

Asset limits would increase for an individual from 25,980 to 26,687 for a single individual, and from 55,000 to 56,045 for a married couple.

These changes would take effect if passed, these changes would take effect for fiscal year 27, meaning the eligible seniors could begin applying as of July 1st.

With the application period, we're running until April 1st of next year.

Um as the counselor previously mentioned, these um it is worth note.

As counselor previously mentioned, uh we saw a decline in fiscal year 26, uh, with fifth 446 approvals out of 725 applicants.

In 2025, we had 507 approvals with 885 applications.

For my department, I don't anticipate this adoption to be difficult to implement.

Uh, just simply be updating our staff with the updated income and asset limits as well as updating our brochures.

Um so I look forward to your questions.

Okay, thank you very much.

And then uh just for our panelists, you don't have to press the buttons for the mic.

We have central staff.

They'll turn your mics on and off.

They're all on right now, anyway.

Okay, good morning, counselor, good morning, chair.

Um, my name is Lily Bryan, and I'm a Dorchester homeowner and a senior living on a fixed income.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today.

It is my honor to speak to you as president of the Boston Chapter of Mass Senior Action.

For years, members of Mass Senior Action have come before this council to ask for release for property tax.

We are thankful that the city council has responded each time by taking action to expand the access limit.

But despite the effort, release has stayed out of reach because of the state has refused to take the actions uh we need.

This proposal before you today, class 41D, does not go far enough, even if this passes, we will still need the state to act on Boston's homeowners' rule petition.

But clap, but the clause 41D will prevent us from falling further behind.

It will also work out alongside the changes proposed in the home rule petition once the petition is passed.

We all know cost of living goes up every year, but the income and access limit does not.

41C program has been stuck since 2023.

Clause 41D would help to adjust the income and assess the limits of 41C program every year for inflation.

If Boston had passed this 41D in 2023, as other towns did, many seniors, including me, would now qualify for 41C assistant.

Instead, we are left living on the edge.

Your action to pass 41D will make sure that another 10 to 20 years seniors are not saying, if only you had passed this before.

On behalf of Mass Senior Action, we urge you to act quickly and pass 41D.

Thank you again.

Okay, thank you.

Um good morning, uh Chair and Counselors.

Uh thank you for the opportunity to speak.

My name is Carolyn Villers.

I serve as the executive director of Mass Senior Action Council as well as the uh Boston chapter community organizer.

Um, in my function, I spend a lot of time in the community uh speaking with folks, and and as an organization, our role is to really understand what are some of the issues and challenges uh that is impacting seniors' lives, and to work with folks to identify solutions to those issues.

And often it is about looking for policy levers or other things that can really create systemic change uh to improve aging for everybody across uh the city and the commonwealth.

Um the issue of property taxes has been one that has uh been top of mind for seniors for you know well over five years.

Spoke to the council and that was when we first engaged in this conversation.

And since then, as Lily said, you know uh one of our our past leaders, you have time and time again done your part to take action to adjust uh a very out-of-date uh you know limits that really leave um the relief that people need out of reach.

Um and uh as we continue to to do our part to move uh state legislators, um we're very thankful to um councillor uh Lugien and uh and her staff for identifying an option that the city council can do on your own.

Um and uh, you know, I think it's important to understand that in Boston there are uh two out of three single seniors, um, and about 43 couples that live below the income that they need to be able to afford even just basic needs.

Umass Boston does a great job creating something called the Elder Economic Index, and we know that many people are are struggling and and often behind closed doors in silence, and many um homeowners are cash uh you know, house rich or cash poor as as they say.

Um, and you know, as they bought their homes when the values were very different than they are today, but their fixed incomes have not adjusted with the values, and um this has increasingly made it difficult, and we have seen many people who have been forced out of their homes and their communities that they helped to build.

Um as uh mentioned um in uh counselor Lujian's um opening remarks.

Had Boston adopted this um when first available in 2003, today the income limits would be over 40,000 and instead we're we're stuck at about 25,000, which is not even 200% of the federal poverty level.

Um it is critical when there are means tested programs that those means tested programs adjust with the cost of living.

Otherwise, the programs that those uh were developed to assist are no longer able to access them.

Um we don't want to take up uh too much of your time because we know that this is an issue that you have heard from our members and from others uh your constituents, but we uh urge you to take swift action uh to pass this, and um welcome to answer any questions, but thank you for your time.

Okay, uh thank you very much.

We've been joined by counselors Culpepper and Fitzgerald.

Uh we're gonna uh have a first round of questions and then we'll hear from uh you know any anyone here that gives who's here to give public testimony.

So we're gonna start with the sponsors.

Uh we'll do uh six minutes.

Um counselor Louie Jen.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair, and thank you to um everyone for the presentation.

I think it went over and um a lot of my questions were actually answered.

Um but I guess I'll start with uh uh you uh uh Henlin uh for on questions on whether the assessing department and I also want to give a big shout out to Karishma because Kerishma was really helpful and central staff was really helpful with my office in doing the research on this.

Um, do you track applicants who are denied because they are slightly above the income or asset limits?

Um we currently don't track that.

We are gonna be working on that eventually.

Um, but sorry.

Good morning, counselor.

Good morning.

Yeah.

Um but yeah, we are we don't track the dunal parts.

Um we do have a portion where we do would review the application, and if they do not fit into the 41C program to the senior application, we'll try to see if they fit into another senior exemption program.

Um we also check to see if they're receiving the residential exemption as well or any other exemption application.

And um we also refer them to AIDStrong as well, in case there's you know anything else that you know we can't do.

Maybe they have other programs which she just mentioned earlier.

Yeah, and I appreciate Commissioner Shea mentioning the ways in which either with SNAP or other assistance programs but another question for you Mr.

Wong want to just yeah um is it what are the other senior tax exemptions that they could qualify for if they don't qualify under 41c yep so we have a couple other programs.

We have one for veterans we have one for the legally blind um we also have one for um we have a tax deferral program as well um but most of these do require income and asset limits um and um we have a couple other programs off the top of my head we have um um that I can't mention but I mean I can't not that I can't mention yeah um but um we do have a couple other programs off the top of my head but we can also refer them to the um taxpayer referral assistance center yeah track for the what it can you talk about the the difference between an exemption and a deferral yep so the exemption is basically um a deduction off your property taxes so at a deferral is basically um you defer your taxes until the property is sold and then um when the property is sold um that money is then given back to the city with a small percent interest okay thank you um could you um talk about and you you did mention this you said that it would be pretty you think it would be pretty um easy to implement if it's adopted and you talked about the timeline just so that folks are clear we want to adopt this before the fiscal year 26 calendar and to the end of June so that it can be implemented for 40 for our fiscal year 27 is that correct yes ma'am and that would happen at the end of June so just wanted people to know the timeline under which we're working um do you have any concerns about the implementation or timeline or anything that you know should give you a bit of pause.

Not to my knowledge we're in support of this so I do hope it gets passed.

Thank you and thank you I know this is your first time testifying before Spawn City Council and doing great job.

Do you know why the city of Boston has chosen and this is open to anyone has chosen why has it taken so long for us to make the decision to adopt this local option.

I I mean I'll just say I I don't think we knew it existed from from our department's end of things.

I thought we had looked at everything and we hadn't so grateful that you found this and that we can that we can do it.

I mean I honestly think that and perhaps it has been a bit of an oversight right um you know there were a number of towns that adopted it initially in 2003 and there are some a number of towns that have adopted it more recently um but uh I suspect as we've been looking for kind of relief uh this is is one that is really just been an oversight um and a missed opportunity yeah um and I want to be very clear that I started off with my opening statement talking about you know if it had been adopted in 2003 like Lily had spoken about it you know right now it would be a 40 thousand dollar exemption a 4000 dollar income limit and what we see is 25,000 right because of the compounding effects of doing a cost of living adjustment every year.

And so that I want to just that that data actually we brought we brought up the idea but then your team and the master council did the data on like what this would actually mean so I just wanted to uplift that.

Lily I you you very poignantly talked about how this is a good step and we still need the state house to act um can and this is open to you Lily or anyone else do we have a sense of if them at other measures adopted how many more how many more seniors would be positively impacted by having these the overall asset limits and income limits increased.

I think that um thank you good morning I think that it would affect a lot of us you know to uh be able to uh get access to the um this uh 41c if this um um 41d was adopted so just the people that I speak around, you know, in my area uh I see where it could really help us.

Thank you.

Uh Commissioner Shea, you talked about the cost savings clinics that the H strong had, and I thought those were great.

I wasn't able to attend any of them, but I think that it's important that we continue to to think about what we're doing to help our older adults plan for like aging and and uh aging in place and um uh for the affordability issues that present itself.

What more like what more can we be doing?

Or I guess that you have uh to address the issues of affordability in terms of like doing these, like what did you learn, what can be improved on for future events that we do as seniors around this issue of affordability and cost.

Sure.

Um so just um briefly.

I think uh anything that we can do to reach new people is is always a good thing, right?

Which is why we're constantly trying to get out into the community.

Um, and I think as uh people that touch a lot of people in the community, we'd love your help in getting the word out that programs actually do exist.

Um and and also that um people have earned the right to take advantage of them.

I think sometimes there's also a stigma around benefits.

Um so I think we always can do more about reaching people.

Um, but uh, you know, happy to hear any additional ideas that people have.

Um I think it's important to bring uh the work that we do out to folks in the community so they don't um always have to find us here in in City Hall.

Um and so that's what we work hard on uh at H strong, but we know we know um we need all of our partners to do that with us.

Thank you.

Okay, yeah, thank you very much.

Counselor Warrell.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, and thank you for the presentation and your advocacy.

Uh a lot of my questions have already been asked or has been answered through your presentation, but I do just have a couple.

Um, do you have maybe you don't, but um I'll ask it.

Um do you know like how many more seniors would be eligible uh for the senior tax exemption uh once this is implemented?

Um good morning, counselor.

Um, and that's a great question.

Unfortunately, we don't have a measurable way of determining that.

Um I'm open to ideas on that.

Um, but I think there's so many variables into that that um I wouldn't be able to give you a solid answer right now.

Awesome.

And then um when this is adopted, what would be like information getting the information out to make sure that all of our older adults um have access to it and know that it's out there?

Is will this be like put into the property tax bill that gets sent out quarterly?

Like how how do we plan on getting the information out there?

Yep.

Um so we do have pamphlets that are available.

We'll be updating those once this if this adoption is does go through.

Um property tax.

Yeah, um I'm glad to get back to you on putting the insert on the property tax bills.

Um for that part.

Um, but yeah, uh we'll just be updating the website as well and informing our staff.

Got it.

And this this is an opt-in, like you have to apply, send in an application, yeah.

Yes, okay.

Yes, it is an annual application.

Um first time applicants will fill out, you know, um we have residences, we have a residency requirement.

Um how many years you've been living at the property for, um, income asset limits, which I've mentioned before, and then for renewals, we are proactive in that we send out renewal applications every year to applicants.

Okay, so this is one that you have to apply for every year.

Yes, okay.

Is there any way of is that the state law or is that something that we require as a city?

For the renewals, the renewals, right?

Um renewals is done by state law.

Okay, all right.

Residential exemption is one and done, right?

The senior, and then this that you have to apply for every year.

Okay.

Um I think that might be my questions.

Um, but again, I think the advocacy needs to be done at the state house.

Um, you know, I know we pat this body has passed um in collaboration with the council.

Um, you know uh an exemption that changes the income limits and the asset limit.

So just want to continue just advocating at the state house and you know, pressure our colleagues up there to to pass the senior tax exemption that we have already on the books.

But thank you for your advocacy and thank you for your work.

Okay, thank you, uh Counselor Flynn.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you to the people on the panel for your your important testimony, informing the public as well.

I want to say thank you to Commissioner Shea for the work you're doing and for the incoming assessing commissioner as chief as well, Mr.

Wong.

Let me just follow up on one of my on one a question one of my colleagues uh mentioned.

If this passes, so our seniors would have to apply for this.

And would they have to apply for it every year or do they apply for once and then it's already renewed?

Yep.

Good morning, counselor.

Good morning.

Um yes, under the statute, they would have to apply every year for the senior tax exemption.

So that's why we always are proactive in sending out renewal applications to applicants who've already getting the exemption.

So would they have to apply every year based on city law, state law, or is it city policy?

It would be state law.

State law.

Okay.

My concern, and I str I strongly support this.

Um my concern is sometimes it is difficult for people to continue to apply for something.

Sometimes people think once you apply for a benefit of service that you don't necessarily need to reapply for it every year.

That is my concern.

No one's no it's no one's fault.

It's it's state law.

But so I guess my my next question is it really takes an engaged process, uh, engaged communication to constantly really constantly inform seniors.

I I don't necessarily think placing something on the home page is all is all that effective.

I think it has to be something more engaging with seniors across across the city.

Counselor, if if I may, um so I think uh we have heard and seen, you know, age strong is doing um, you know, benefits clinics throughout the city, and and we have uh seen a number of homeowners who were not aware of the exemptions in the past be able to access it.

And and I think both um your question as well as Counselor Warrell, I mean, recognizes that the burden of the application process can be a barrier in and of itself.

Um and uh so having assistance through that process is is very important, and and we're you know, I think folks are very thankful to the work that age strong and and the assessors department also will assist people uh who reach out, but it it certainly, you know.

I think it also just wanna speak to I mean the reality of of 41D is it is not gonna really reach a whole lot of new people.

Um it is gonna help the people who already get assistance stay in because right now because uh incomes do go slightly with the cost of living of social security and our retirements, um, but the uh the limit has stayed stagnant.

We you know, there are people who fall off, which is part of why over the last 23 years numbers have declined because it just hasn't kept pace.

This will enable people who get assistance to keep getting assistance, and if we do this with the home rule petition and and get that passed uh, you know, for 41C expansion, they'll work together to just make sure that it stays in pace for the future as well.

Excellent.

Thank thank you for that response.

Um appreciate that.

So, Chief Wong, the the residents would they mail in their application to assessing department or would they have to do it in person?

Thank you for the question.

Um they can do both.

Okay.

And does it have to be notarized or certified or anything like that?

Um for the application?

Not for the application, but when you send the application back, would it would it have to be notarized or certified or anything?

No.

Um we would just prefer that, you know, we do have a statutory deadline of April 1st for next year.

Um that is under state law, so we would prefer applicants to apply as soon as possible.

Okay.

Can you tell me a little about the um any other programs for seniors, such as the opportunity for seniors to do some type of community service that does support them with a little bit of tax relief?

Yep.

So we do have a senior tax workout program.

Do you want me to speak to that?

Um I'll speak to that because that program is run out of our office.

So it's an older adult property tax workout program.

Um and you can uh if you qualify, you can work off up to $2,000 of your property taxes by volunteering in a city department.

Um you have to volunteer, I think a hundred and thirty-three and a half hours to get the full two thousand dollars off.

But we are accepting applications.

I should have brought that information with me today, but I didn't.

But um through uh I can get the deadline, but it's right at the beginning of July is the deadline for applications for that program for this year.

Um folks will have until November, the beginning of November to work off all of their hours, and then whatever they work off comes off of their third quarter taxes.

Okay, and my final question, Chief.

Um, can you tell and explain a little bit as a public service announcement?

Some the program for disabled veterans.

Can you explain that program for um tax assistance, please?

Yep.

So we have a program for disabled veterans.

Um, I believe we also have um uh the HERO Act as well for National Guardsmen as well who are serving overseas, so there's another program there.

Um there's a discount, it says a reduction off your taxes.

Um, and you can come down to the taxpayer referral assistance center or give our office a call, we'll mail you on an application or come in and fill one out, or have over to veteran services, and they can assist you as well.

Thank you.

There's a gentleman that sits at the uh front desk there at assessing.

I go in there and talk to him all the time.

He kind of collects the document and he timestamp stamps it there.

But just wanted to pass along, he's very professional, he's excellent, great customer services, but there are some good people that are um doing important work there.

Just want to acknowledge his professionalism.

Great.

I appreciate counselor.

Thank you, thank you.

Okay, thank you, Counselor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you for this hearing.

Thank you to counselor for following this significant piece of legislation.

Um thank you.

Thank you.

I think it will make a big difference.

I'm not sure if we could measure the difference in dollars, but um, I must admit, you can't hear me?

Can you hear me now?

I'll come over and talk to you.

Want me to come over and talk to you?

I'll come over there.

I uh was just telling her how important I think this legislation is.

May not be able to measure the impact uh right away, but uh as a senior, you know I'm a senior, I'm wanna I'm one of you, I don't have my shirt yet, but uh I better get one.

I need one of those senior action shirts too.

Because I think I applied for this a while back, and uh I looked at I looked at those the limits for working off the two thousand dollars, and um I wasn't eligible because of the income limits, and uh so I ran for city council and uh I won that election, but I think with the way inflation is going up, and with regard to the cost of living, I think we need to figure out other ways to help the seniors.

Because the cost of living adjustment is nice, but it really doesn't keep up with inflation.

And maybe we should adjust it instead of keeping up with the consumer price index, adjust it to keep up with inflation.

Every time inflation rises, the seniors get the benefit of the exemption.

I do have a couple of questions regarding the exemption and whether there are additional reforms you think Mr.

Wong that are needed to help this seniors keep up with inflation.

Good morning, counselor.

For reforms, I would have to get back to you on that.

I don't know anything off the top of my head right now.

I know there is a bunch of legislation up on the hill.

Such as, do you know?

I don't know.

I know there's every year there's probably a dozen on the hill, so I'd have to get back to you and give you a list.

And for the other towns where they've already implemented this, can you talk a little bit about what they've experienced?

The success of the other programs if they are successful?

Yep.

I don't know about any other city or town about their success rate.

Um, I can try to reach out to them and get back to you.

And how do you notify?

Because one of the problems I think we experience is as seniors grow older, uh, the challenge of filing these exemptions becomes more and more.

And I'm wondering if we just shouldn't make it automatic so that the seniors don't have to try and remember that they need to apply every year.

What notification, and maybe Emily, maybe this is for you good to see you.

How do you let the seniors know that it's time to apply?

Can you thank you?

Um, so I think we try to get the word out as much as possible.

I don't know that um I mean it's I believe state law that they have to kind of apply every year, but um uh we elevate it in seniority magazine, um we try to do it through our cost-saving clinics, um, we try to elevate um this and kind of other benefit programs as much as possible through all of the different pathways, you know, all of the tabling events that we do, um, all of the times that we go out and speak at uh senior housing or uh faith-based communities, um, really just trying to get the word out as much as possible.

And I guess what I would ask because it is uh whether it's this benefit or or any of the other ones, they're complex, right?

They all have different income and asset requirements.

Um, so I would ask that if anyone knows anyone out there that's having trouble making ends meet um uh that wants to be screened for anything, um, to please send them to our office because we can do a comprehensive screening and identify which of the programs, whether it be these um property tax relief programs or other ones that that folks might be eligible for.

What about technical assistance?

Do you do any technical assistance or we do?

We um we work with people to help find their documents that they need.

Um we work with them to actually fill out the application.

Um, so yes, we provide hands-on assistance for people.

I guess my final question, Mr.

Wong, is once they apply.

Would it make sense that after they apply for the following year that if they've already applied that they would get some kind of notice from the city just reminding them, hey, you applied last year?

Uh maybe it's time to apply again this year.

Yes, we do send out renewal applications, we do sound notifications for applicants who have already applied, and I've been granted.

Um so yes, we do do that.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you very much, Councilor Fitzgerald.

You're playing your music a little loud over there.

Turn it down.

This is uh this is what my head felt like during the budget process, right?

Uh-huh.

Um all great uh questions from my colleagues.

Uh I just want to say I'm supportive of this going forward.

Um most of my questions have been answered, but just want to thank you all for showing up.

Thank you for the the uh the Massini Action Council for showing up as well as always, uh, and we'll be supportive of this going forward.

Thank you.

Okay, okay, thanks.

Um just uh couple questions from the chair.

Um I guess uh for Commissioner Shea, I I get you know, do i yeah, if we can pass this, is there additional uh sort of uh programming to make people aware you know you have anything planned?

Uh, sure.

Um so we will um uh we will be doing our cost saving clinics again in the winter also this um well I guess in the you know January to April time frame um we will be out in community um throughout the summer um with lots of touch points so if you pass it we can help get the word out.

Um we also will be out um in all the neighborhoods again in the fall uh doing our Medicare open enrollment events so we can certainly get the word out through those avenues as well, as well as in seniority magazine.

Okay, um and then I I guess uh for Mr.

Wong, we so the the number of uh folks who've been approved for the 41C applications has gone down steadily.

I think 2023 was 524, and uh 2025 is around 460 uh 466.

Uh so do we know how many people are eligible who are not applying for for these uh exemptions in Boston?

Yep.

Uh good morning.

Um I don't know of any measurable way for us to actually determine um residents who own property and meet these eligibility requirements.

Um, but I am open to finding you know finding data sources to help you help answer that.

Okay, maybe this was discussed, but uh so you know what's the expectation for like the increase, like how many more the percentage, how many more people are eligible if we if we can pass this.

Yep.

Um we're not too sure.

We're hoping that you know there'll be more out more applicants that apply and that they'll be granted this once if this is adopted and passed.

Oh okay.

Yes, sorry.

Uh oh, is that it?

Uh yeah, we're not sure.

Uh yes, okay.

And I I would just add on to that that we think um, you know, we do think that there are people that are eligible for the elderly exemption that have not applied for it.

So if folks are listening or if uh you know folks here in the community, please um encourage folks to at least see if they're eligible, and this um cost of living will help um folks who currently are eligible kind of maintain that eligibility as their uh as they get their social security cola increases.

Okay, and then do you uh I guess do you know why is this tied to consumer price index that I just is that something that's common and uh I believe it's under statute for the cost of living adjustment?

That that's it says yeah, it could tie to consumer price, but that's that's usually it can be anywhere between two and ten percent a year is that I mean, yeah, it changes every year, but um if order passed we're going up, we're not 2.7.

Okay.

Counselor, I think part of that is that with seniors the uh cost of living increase for social security is tied to the CPIW.

Okay, so um, so I think you know, being that it's a senior eligibility, you know, tying it to a similar um measure, but okay.

Uh thank thank you very much.

Uh we're we're we're gonna have a second round of questions, but first I don't know if nobody is signed up, yeah.

Yeah, Castor Flynn.

Thank you.

The music outside was very distracting.

Yeah, and for people that are hearing out of hearing, um, and deaf, um, it's it's it's very distracting.

Um I I know it's not your fault or responsibility, but I I can't I can't hear sometimes when the music is blaring like that.

I don't know if the other people can hear as well, but the the desk is shaking, um, the vibration because the music.

Um, yeah, I I agree with you.

Uh I mean there's we we could take a short recess to find out what's going on.

I think the World Cup's going on for another month.

Uh, but um uh maybe we'll find out what's what's happening outside.

Maybe it's gonna stop in a few minutes.

It's not apparently.

Uh so I think we'll we'll just gonna plow forward.

We you know, we could move this virtually, but I think we have folks here.

No, I understand, but but but for but for a lot of seniors and other people, um it's it's very distracting and very it's I think it's disrespectful to blast the music while people are trying to testify the panel people listening, and it's very difficult on on such an important on such an important subject.

So just that's just my opinion.

Okay.

Um thank you very much.

So, now we're gonna go to in-person testimony.

If anybody has signed up, uh, you know, you'll have two minutes uh to testify.

Please identify yourself, uh tell us your name, uh where you're from, if you're with an organization, uh, uh Miss Chaplin uh signed up.

But again, if you if you haven't signed up, you can just get in line and we'll hear from people one by one.

So uh would just so you know this is the public testimony, it's not a back and forth with the panels.

If you have questions, please ask, and I hope the panelists will answer them at at the end.

Uh and but you have two minutes uh when whenever you're ready.

And then just when you see the buzzer go off, I'm not gonna cut you off, just acknowledge that you know your time is up and that you're gonna try to wrap up.

Thank you.

Hi, can you hear me?

Yes.

Yeah, and then just get as close as you can to the mic, especially with the the that mic is taller over there.

I have a loud voice, so I think you can hear me.

Okay, you can't be too loud.

Um good morning, everyone.

I'm Lawlene Hardy, I live in in Boston.

I just wanted to speak to some of the programs that Age Strong has for the seniors.

So um I am a prodigy of the cost savings clinic.

I was able to attend it.

I thought it was great.

I learned about other programs that I didn't know.

I'm currently in my third year doing the property tax workout program.

Um, but every all the information that I receive from Carolyn and Mass Senior Action and Age Strong, I go to my church and I share it with the seniors.

But there is so much information, and they're like, I didn't know about this, I didn't know about this.

Do we not have statistics on those seniors who are legally blind, those seniors who are veterans, where we automatically we have the cost savings and it's a general about home ABCD fuel and all of that.

If we can concentrate on maybe one specific topic, 41C, legally those that are 65 that are legally bind, the veterans, the property tax workout program, because I was just talking to um Chief Long's um colleague downstairs.

How this one lady in the church, she's lived in a house for 50 something years, and she doesn't have the residential exemption.

Now, when I bought my property 30 something years ago, I knew nothing about it, so there's a disconnect where the information is not going out to the seniors and others on some of these issues, and I think it would be great if we have a lot of senior, like Emily said, senior buildings, and you know, at the Crocs Center every Thursday, the seniors are there.

If we can go and talk about some of these things, because what I learned, I share to my church.

So the communication needs to get out better for the seniors.

And if they already have the 41C, wouldn't you automatically reach out to them to tell them about this new adoption?

So that's what I have to say.

Okay.

And I like the music though.

I'm just kidding.

Thank you.

She said she likes the music.

Maybe you're alone there, but uh okay.

Yeah.

Uh okay.

Uh good morning.

My name's Donica Chaplin, and I live in Hyde Park, Massachusetts, and I've lived in this house for 50 years this December 16th.

I have questions.

Here's the question that I have.

I want to know, I want to thank the council for all the work they've done for us for the seniors in the past.

But I want to know in the future, have they thought about putting in the entire household budget for the senior?

Not just property tax, but everything, all the costs that it takes.

For years, when I was 21, I came off my mother's health insurance.

I had to have my own.

Now I haven't had to use it, but in my 75th year, I've had to use my insurance, and now everything is going up, even the premiums, with no deductions.

But when the city takes into consideration to lower my property tax, are they?

They're not lowering everything else, and I mean utilities, groceries, medications, meditations I take for my heart condition, that's through the roof.

Now, another thing I want to know: why does a senior have to apply for something every year?

One thing that doesn't go down is my age.

I am 80 years old.

So why if I apply today, I have to apply next year?

Who's to say my mind is gonna be in that way to remember?

You could write it on a calendar.

Then you look at what you wrote, and you can't even, oh, what did I write?

Because it looks like chicken scratch.

We have to be more favorable to us.

Let's stop playing with words and stop playing with people's lives, because that's what you're doing.

The only way my house can go tax-free if my children, which there are two of them, implodes it, bury my dead body there, and then they won't have to pay property tax on the property because cemeteries don't pay property tax.

I want to live 20 more years.

So please do something for us now.

Stop playing with us.

You have the position.

We have elected you to protect us because we're here today, but don't forget you will be here tomorrow, and you pray that someone will protect you.

Thank you very much for listening to me.

Okay, thank you, thank you.

Uh I have uh, sorry.

Okay, take your time.

That's a tough act to follow.

Okay, um, I'm just gonna say what I have to say, because it's two minutes and um okay.

One of the numbers to include an income is gross social security.

Some of us get our um Medicare payments from that.

So I realize that the IRS makes you put down your gross social security, but it's kind of like you're being penalized in this instance for paying for your own medical insurance.

Okay, um, there was there's a line in 41C that I don't understand.

Um, maybe somebody later can explain to me.

I don't understand the connection between assessment and if I get my taxes lowered, it says reduce taxable value of your property below 10% of assessed value.

It's written there.

I don't understand that.

Um, at any rate, um, now one thing I think you're gonna have to consider, which isn't really brought up here, is that some people put their property in an irrevocable trust.

So essentially, if I want to spend the money and I don't, um, forfeit a lot of money to a lawyer so that I can live on $2,000 for the rest of my life.

Um, that would eliminate all my assets if I put everything I own in an irrevocable trust, and I I don't know that you've considered that for the income limits.

Um you have to take that into consideration because it's a choice.

Um, um also I I had seen on television that um there are developers who are involved with the office to residential conversions, and they're getting is it 27 or 29 years worth of free real estate taxes?

Oh, please, come on, you know.

You begrudge some of us who are older to um I I don't know, that just bugs me, no end.

And um if I forego or defer the real estate taxes, the city charge is 14%.

Once upon a time, it was one to two percent.

So at that rate, I might as well apply for a home equity loan, which my neighbors tell me is around six percent.

So that 14% that the city wants for not paying your real estate taxes or deferring them is kind of high.

Um, so I didn't realize the city of Boston was involved in banking.

I don't know.

I can be very cynical at times.

So any rate, um, it would be nice if they passed this because um I was rather moved by the story on television about a double amputee spending the night in South Station.

Counselor Flynn knows who's a veteran, and if that's the alternative, if the Boston housing is that bad because the elevators aren't working, time to leave.

You know, really.

Um, you should consider where you spend your money on people in need and not developers who are able-bodied.

Amen.

God bless.

Okay, thank you very much.

I I don't have anyone else signed up for public testimony.

Uh speak now or hold your peace for the rest of this meeting.

Thank you very much.

Uh okay, so we're gonna go uh for another round of questions for my colleagues, Councillor Louie Jen.

Uh, you're up first.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you to everyone who offered public testimony.

Um Adonica, thank you for your, you know, I know you walk every day in the park with my father, and you know, you your advocacy is is very much appreciated, so appreciate you.

Also, I think Ann asked some really good questions.

Uh, Mr.

Um Mr.

Wong, I'd like to yield some time to if you have any answers for what she mentioned.

Uh, any of the answers, and I see, and I see your I see you're walking out, Ann.

Yes, I'm trying to get some answers for you to some of your questions.

Normally that does, but I'm giving some of my time so that he can answer them, especially on the question of irrevocable trusts, because this is an issue that my office has um uplifted and has worked on uh for our uh our um older adults who try to do what is, and this is another question, another conversation that I've been having with Commissioner Shea about how are we helping our older adults prepare long-term, an irrevocable trust is one of those solutions, but then it blocks them from eligibility.

And so we've been talking.

If you could address that one, and she asked another really good question as well, prior um if you have any of the answers to your questions.

Yep.

Um, so great questions.

Um on the 10% portion of it.

Um, so under the statute, um, we can't reduce um with the exemptions, we can't go below 10% of the assessed value.

So that's um what that what that portion of the statute is.

So we would adjust the exemption um so it won't reach the 10% threshold for the assessed value.

Um on the trust portion of it, um, we get all kinds of trust.

So what we prefer is um for them to give us a copy of the entire trust, we'll review it with the schedule of beneficiaries, um, and we'll work with them to try to figure out what's going on.

Um, so it's a case-by-case determination when the trust is involved, correct.

We would we would require a copy of to see who the trustees are and the beneficiaries.

Great, thank you.

Yep.

Um, I also had uh a few additional questions um that I wanted to.

I think people started, you know, the the CPI, the mayor's proposal that this the Boston City Council has at least twice voted in support of what adjust the income limits based on AMI so just another marker but it's only for income um it doesn't have an adjustment for assets and so what we would propose in this legislation in this local option is that we want to see the state house legislation go forward and in tandem with that we would still apply the cost of living adjustment to the asset limits because under the home rule petition there's no sort of adjustment made for asset limits so I just wanted to clarify that um and I also just wanted to clarify and is that your understanding as well Mr.

Wong um I'd have I'd have to review the legislation to get back to you on that okay and then um we've heard a lot from the seniors about how we are getting this information out and I know Commissioner Shea this is something you care about deeply I wonder if there is a way to ensure that anyone who has ever applied for an exemption for for anything whether they provide an email address or there's a phone number for us to do be more affirmative and more intentional with the outreach of calling those because I partly I understand and part the application process because if something is means tested you want to make sure that you know nothing changes in a five in oh year to year I query whether and I my colleagues want to look into it like a homework petition to make them you know application be based on a five year review or something like that to ensure continued qualification under being means under the means testing because to remove that burden but you don't want to yeah you want to make sure that every that people are are qualified for it year over year.

So I'm not sure if that's something that someone has has thought about or or considered I I don't think we've ever I mean I think it would it would require petition so um it could be potentially part of a package.

Yeah um one thing that um might be worth looking into uh whether the city you know and a lot of means tested programs will do pre-populated renewal applications and so rather than starting anew you're basically saying this is the only information that has changed and this is the information we have and then they make a correction of this is what's changed since then so it's a lot lower burden so that may be something that the city has an ability to do without home rule.

Great yeah I like that idea pre-populated um but just to go over how much oh I have a little time left um this is important uh hopefully next week at the regular meeting of the city council we'll be able to bring this up for a vote so that we can get it done by time for fiscal year 30.

I had enough another few comments but I'll yield my time because and I'll leave them for closing okay thank you.

Councilor Worrell thank you chair um the exemption is it a loss of revenue or does that revenue get spread out across the tax base?

Loss of revenue and because we're providing the discount uh to our seniors yes so are we losing that revenue or is that revenue get spread out yep we get a partial reimbursement from the state um so it's five hundred dollars and then the rest of the amount um is comes from the city okay um and then um I know that MOH had a fellow um regard um that was looking into uh the trust question um I know that there was uh a study being done on adopted new policy and my understanding is that MOA should be releasing uh um an updated update or updated new policy around seniors or older adults being able to access um whether it's exemptions or senior home loans or construction loans um uh updated policy around trust so hopefully um that information um and that research is beneficial to our older adults um my my last question or my last advocacy will be I I do think that although all our homeowners are are not older adults, I I do think that putting it, putting that information into the tax bill um would would be beneficial just because um that's how word spreads, right?

I don't think we just want to, you know, yes, we do want to be targeted, but we also want everyone to know about you know the exemption and the resources out there so that they can help spread the word.

So my advocacy would be to as many tax bills as possible, putting that information out there so that everyone knows about it and is connecting our older adults uh to these benefits.

Thank you.

No further questions.

Okay, thank you very much.

Counselor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Mr.

Wong, I want to follow up on an earlier question because one of the problems that I know happened is that the seniors forget about this exemption.

What percentage of seniors do you think?

And you may want to try and maybe an educated guess, but what percentage of seniors do you think don't apply the following year because they don't remember?

I think I don't know about the don't remember part, but well let's let's take the don't remember part of it.

I can probably I have to write stuff down myself at this point.

But seriously, because I think one of the problems is that and and she mentioned it.

She said as we get older, she mentioned it.

She said as we get older, and you'll see one day.

But do you see a decrease in the number of exemptions because folks don't apply from year to year?

So we are seeing a decrease on the explanation of it.

Um we don't have a solid footing on why.

There's just so many variables that go into this, um, that I really can't give you a solid answer, like a confident solid answer on that.

Um, but we are proactive and just going out there, sending out applications for renewals and you know, and age strong works together with us to you know give outreach to seniors.

So, are you using the churches at all?

Because I know at my church, every piece of information I get, we make it available to all of our seniors so they will have the information.

But we know that seniors go to church.

And we know if you get the information to the churches, Sunday morning, the pastor will say, let me just make sure everyone who is eligible to apply has this information.

Because I'm really thinking that the numbers decreasing because, and I don't want to use the word don't remember, but that's what happens, that they they forget.

And so the question becomes how do we as a city make sure that the seniors that are eligible know about it and then get the technical assistance that they need to apply.

So on the knowing about it part, um you'll see it on the tax bill come January that they're not getting the exemption, and so that's why the statute goes until April 1st after the third quarter tax bill for them to be like, okay, there's still something wrong with my tax bill.

Um, let me call the assessing department, let me call the city, try to figure out what programs there are, and that's why there's a little bit of leeway until the April 1st deadline.

And what's the projected fiscal impact of adopting clause 41D and fiscal 27, both in terms of foregone revenue and the estimated number of additional households?

Um I wouldn't have those numbers specifically, um, as you know, I mentioned earlier.

We have you would have it in terms of fullone revenue, though, right?

I wouldn't have those.

I would probably have to get back to you and talk to our you know, other departments.

Can you try to figure that out?

Yep.

Can you do that?

And the other thing is to try and make a good faith estimate on the number of households that would benefit from 41D once it goes into effect.

I I don't know, counselor, that we have any data source that that gives us kind of income and assets and age.

So I think it's it's hard to get the total number of people that might be eligible.

I do think it's more people than are currently applying.

But I also think that what this will do with the cola increase, given that social security also has a cola increase, is keep those who are getting it, keep them eligible kind of as their Social Security inches up, which will be great.

No, I understand, but I'm also concerned about the seniors that are eligible that don't know about the exemption.

Me too, and therefore aren't going on applying for it.

And I think we can look um a little bit at, you know, the home rule petition that's already been passed to pass uh to expand 41C.

The estimate was that that expansion, which would bring the current limit, it basically almost doubles the income limit from about 25 to about 50,000.

Um would about just about double the number of people it reaches.

So this is really incremental.

I mean, it we're gonna raise the income limit by about a thousand dollars.

So it's it's really incremental there.

As as Emily said, there it's not even state level data that correlates income and assets, so you know there's no way to do this again.

I I think thinking of this as keeping the people who are getting assistance to keep them in the in the fold, and the home rule petition that's already been passed is really about reaching new people, right?

And I do want to keep the people in the fold that are getting assistance, but I also want to reach the seniors that are not getting the assistance but are eligible to get the assistance.

So we have to figure out a better way.

We really need to figure out a better way so every senior that is struggling, and and we're all struggling as seniors, can get uh the exemption and the benefits, not just from this exemption, Emily, but from all of the exemptions or discounts that would help uh improve their quality of life, and so let's think more about how we do that, and then I'd like to try to figure out how many where we in terms of the numbers of seniors that were actually missing for this exemption, because that would then give us um more incentive to try to figure out a way to reach the many seniors that don't know about this exemption and the seniors that have challenges filling out the application because not all the seniors can sit down and pick up a pen and so there's um technical assistance, Emily, that we might need to talk about so that the seniors can and maybe we have an exemption day at City Hall and just invite all the seniors in to come in and apply and fill it out, and those that have challenges, we can make sure they get the assistance they need.

Thank you.

Every day is exemption day downstairs.

So feel free to send you.

I know, but you gotta announce it.

I mean, you can say it here, that's one thing, but really letting folks know, sorry, so that they can come in.

I'm just concerned that there's a high number of seniors that aren't taking advantage of this exemption because they don't know about it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councillor Colpever.

Counselor Fitzgerald.

Thank you very much, doesn't it?

Thank you very much, Chair.

Uh I appreciate the opportunity to ask questions, uh, but uh again learned a lot from my colleagues, a lot from the panel, a lot from the testimony, and again, just here in support and wanted to make sure I heard everybody and understanding what all the issues are.

So thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, just uh basically one uh math uh question for me.

So looking at um it's about 700,000 in tax relief last year, uh, last few years, based on about 460 to 500 applications.

My phone calculator tells me it's about fifteen hundred dollars per applicant.

If it just and so you I think, Mr.

Wong, you said that the state reimburses 500.

Is that 500 out of that 1500 per household or uh?

So it'll be it'll be per applicant.

So if we were if we grant some of them a thousand dollars, five hundred will be reimbursed by the state.

Okay, um, yeah, so it's about fifty, it looks like it to be about fifteen hundred dollars.

Maybe we're expanding the pool by doing this, and uh, maybe it's still gonna be around $1,500 per household with $500 coming back from the state for each of those.

Yep, I can I can give you final numbers um after we're done.

Okay, yeah, thank you very much.

Uh, I don't know.

Uh we're uh any final questions.

Oh, I apologize.

We do have one person online.

Uh, let's hear from them, and then we'll go to uh closing statements or any final questions for my colleagues.

Okay, can you?

Can you hear me?

Good morning.

Yes, I can.

Good morning.

We can hear you.

You have two minutes.

Uh just uh tell us uh who you are, where you're from, and uh you have two minutes to testify.

Sure.

Can you see me okay?

Yes, okay.

Good morning.

My name is Ally Foley.

I'm probably gonna be a surprise panelist to many of you in the room there.

Many of the counselors knew know my name and know where I live, and me calling in from Back Bay will come as a surprise to the topic at hand.

My name is Ally Foley, and I'm a Back Bay resident, and I may be the last person you will expect to hear from today.

I've been a resident advocate for eight years fighting for neighborhood infrastructure and quality for the quality of life for Back Bay, and for the past four years, I've served as a volunteer chair of the Back Bay Block Captains program.

It's a neighborhood watch program for the area.

All of it has been unpaid while my rent has continued to climb.

I strongly support the docket you have at hand today, especially for indexing seniors uh with property tax exemption limits to adjusting the cost of living.

It makes common sense for what you all have on the floor today.

So please do move this forward.

I want to offer the view from just outside the eligibility window of this docket and this case.

I am 56 years old.

I rent in back pay, including the last four years with zero income.

I have watched my rent increase with nothing to cushion it.

I struggle in this neighborhood and in Boston generally, but this is real, and it's in neighborhoods that you might not have expected this to be a problem.

I am fortunate to have had the education resourcefulness to find programs like Raft and SNAP.

Most people in my situation don't know these programs exist.

So I implore that you folks find a way to get better education awareness on these two programs for like people in my situation and/or aging elderly people in my situation.

Here's the gap.

I'm 14 years away from the aging threshold that you are speaking on today.

When I get there, this clause 41D still will not help me because I rent, and I'm speaking for other aging renters.

Given today's housing cost and interest rates and wages, I may never be in a position to own a home.

This is an economic reality for an entire generation of Bostonians aging into their senior years as renters.

As this demographic grows, the question to the council must answer.

How do we keep these people here to age in place?

How can the raft and SNAP and income limits be adjusted or keep pace with the reality that this bill is trying to help?

The principle is the same.

The urgency is the same.

I recently returned to work through the most unexpected path, picking up litter with my dog, just outside the public garden on Arlington Street.

And I made a connection that led me back to my field that I left because I love my community so much.

I have to go back to work.

I can't afford to work for free for the city of Boston, caring for the neighborhood.

So when you show up for your community, this is actually a word of advice to the individuals in the room today that are struggling economically that may not be working.

You will actually likely find support, solace, comfort, and job opportunities with volunteering and helping out your community.

I implore you to explore those conversations and get deeply involved in community efforts.

I hope the city will show up for its senior renters before it's too late for them to stay.

And helping out the other communities to help them step up, get involved in the community, and get access to community services like the one you're offering today on the floor.

I yield and I thank you for your time.

Okay, thank you very much.

Um, so just uh I for my colleagues, uh, gonna set the time at three minutes if you have uh any any follow-up questions or closing statements.

Um thank you very much.

Um Mr.

Wong 412 41C applications in 2026.

Do you know how many total applications there were?

For fiscal year 26, it was 446 approvals.

We had 725 applicants.

Okay.

So we're hoping that, like, uh, you know, based on the data that my office has done, that we would see hopefully a five to ten percent increase in the participation in 41c because of the adoption of 41D, uh, because we lost 11% of 41C approvals in the last year, like year over year.

So just reverse engineering the math.

We think that we'll see a five to ten percent increase.

But you also talked about not having the data, some of this data, and I think it's going forward, we should collect as much data as possible so that we can know sort of how to solve the problem.

You can't solve a problem without data, so um, be great to do that.

And then you talked a little bit about 17D.

Um, well, before I get to that, Adonica had a question.

I just think it's also really important for our seniors to know that based that um eligibility if you have your property in a trust is on a case-by-case basis with further research being done because I think that some people just assume uh and it may not be shared uh uh in a widespread nature that it is done on a case-by-case review because I know that I've interact with constituents, so just wanted to uplift that.

Um, and then just on 17 D, that's just the surviving spouse exemption right now.

I think you said that it's at 420.

Um, are there income and asset limits as well under 17 D?

Uh yes, there will be income and asset limits.

And are there adjustments could be because we're doing this today, so looking to see do we need to do it on 17D as well to do asset to do COLA cost of living adjustments or AMI based on CPI or AMI?

17 D does not have an income limit, it does have an asset limit of 40,000 dollars for policy.

Thank you.

It's a lot of programs, asset limit of 40,000 dollars.

Yeah, okay, that's good to know.

Um that it's not been adjusted, so it's it's aligned with the 41C asset limit, which would become adjusted under this.

I don't know that this can also adjust that, but um, yeah, well we'll have to get back to you on the 17D portion of it.

Great.

Yeah, we'll do some research on that as well because we just want to make sure that there aren't any barriers that we want to also see how we can knock those down.

Those are my questions.

Thank you much.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you, Councilor Warrell.

Uh no further questions.

Okay, thank you very much.

Counselor Culpepper.

So Wong, what are the administrative challenges that will be associated once this 48D is affected?

Um, in my office, we are not projecting any administrative challenges, it's just updating our staff what the new numbers are, updating brochures.

So once this is passed, it should take us less than a day and hopefully get this ready to enroll them for July 1st.

And as those applications come in, they're all handled manually.

Um, they're reviewed manually, yes.

Yes, yes, an individual, an individual in our office will be reviewing them manually.

And if there are questions, we'll reach out to the taxpayer for further clarification or additional documentation.

Okay, and my question, Emily, for you, and we heard a little discussion about irrevocable trusts.

Are there any kind of sessions or any kind of guidance for seniors that have an interest in irrevocable trust?

Because it can be complicated, and in some ways detrimental.

Um, so we have been talking about how we can do uh get uh our older residents more access to all types of planning.

Um I think that that kind of financial planning and the implications of that financial planning is is one of those things we'd like to see broader access to in the city.

I wonder, can we so you give great parties?

You give great parties that's full of seniors, and I'm wondering when you do those parties, whether there can be a component with seniors that come to the party.

Can also speak to some of the experts regarding some of the questions that they have with regard to the irrevocable trust because they become a big issue.

You know, once you give it all up, it's up, and they can't go back into it.

I'm not sure if many seniors understand that with the irrevocable trust once they sign everything over to the beneficiaries and the trust that it's gone, and that they have they lose all their rights to it and interests.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's probably pros and cons of every decision that you need to consider.

Um so I agree that when we have a lot of people in a room, um, it's a good time to get them access to resources.

Um, we also um uh sometimes have resource fares, um, we have uh elder law attorneys sometimes come in to our senior centers to talk to people.

So I think it's about making sure that people have access to information in lots of different spaces.

Exactly.

Appreciate the suggestion.

And the and the other thing is for reverse mortgages.

They need to know about reverse mortgages, even though it seems like a great idea, uh, because you get some equity out of uh the asset, but once you take that reverse mortgage and sign it over, and you pass away, your children are gonna be in a tough predicament because they have to pay that mortgage off immediately.

And so those are.

No, I understand, but but giving them the information about pros and cons.

And you know, for the reverse mortgages, it's more conning than it is pros, in my opinion.

And I think that seniors need to know, and uh, I just come back to those parties.

Got hundreds of seniors there at those parties, giving them some information so they can leave those parties with that they can at least read at home, would be greatly helpful.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank thank you very much.

Uh with that said, I just want to thank uh my colleagues uh for for participating in this.

I want to thank Councillor Louie Jen for bringing this forward.

Thank the panelists for your uh your your testimony, your thoughtful responses today.

And I want to thank everyone for mass senior action who came out in numbers, and I appreciate you being willing to come back uh for uh you know the second date for this.

Uh with that said, uh, we're gonna work to get this to the floor to vote on June 24th.

Um so we'll be working on that with central staff.

Thank you to central staff for having this uh hearing today uh with us, and so this hearing on document number 0697 is now adjourned.