Welcome to Zoom.

Enter your meeting ID followed by pound.

Enter your participant ID followed by pound.

Otherwise, just press pound to continue.

You have entered the meeting as a panelist.

Attendees can now hear you speak.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, we never did that after that.

I uh I said no more meetings like that.

No, I think we stopped at ten, didn't we?

I think we usually try to stop.

Are you guys able to hear us?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just one second.

We're setting up the other Zooms here.

Um so just give us a couple of minutes.

Sure.

I think you're in comma.

We can see you.

I just right clicked on it.

Yeah, if you right click and it gives you a reading.

Oh, I got I'm on an iPad, so I got I figured it out.

It was uh it was it wasn't a right click, it was some other one.

Welcome to Zoom.

Enter your meeting ID followed by pound.

Did you guys all read the engagement plan?

I make a load of notes.

Please re-enter the meeting passcode followed by pound.

There are three participants in the meeting.

Well, that's maybe they're not gonna present for for a while.

So maybe that's just not.

Yeah.

Oh, they're all here.

Uh just a sort of right.

Hey, you bet.

Yeah, but I'm just trying to get connected on my Zoom.

Oops.

No problem.

It's a little bit of a trial in there.

We can hear you.

Jim and Chelsea, can you hear us?

I can hear you.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you.

Chelsea, can you hear us?

We cannot hear you.

Okay.

Uh Lakota Group, can you guys hear us?

Yeah.

Cool.

Yes.

Great.

We are gonna we have you just minimize for now so that we're not just all staring at your faces in the meantime, but we'll bring you up when it's your turn to present.

But um but if you're conversing amongst yourselves via Zoom, uh we will be able to hear you.

So just if why I'm sure.

Hot mics.

Uh I wonder what the story behind that is.

Um cool.

Okay.

Chelsea, you still can't hear us.

Well, it's working for Jim, so it's yeah.

Her phone, is it muted?

No, it's all on her end.

I'm talking about it.

I'm doing we we have one, so we could start with Tom just to make sure that she can actually like say that she's here present.

Um current interesting.

Who is moving that cursor if he is not sitting here?

Oh, he is in there.

Okay.

Jim, are you still able to hear us?

Yes, I sure can.

Thank you.

Okay.

Wonderful.

So I don't know why that it should it's joined, obviously.

Um then I think that's just uh I don't know what that number is.

I think it's redundant.

Okay.

Chelsea's trying to get on the Chelsea, can you hear us now?

Oh, I see.

We can see you.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Can you hear us?

Oh yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Great.

Okay.

Mike, take it away.

Okay.

All right.

Uh good evening and thanks for joining us.

Before we start the meeting, I'd like to remind folks of a couple of things to make it easier for you to follow along and make public comment.

Might not be that easy to follow along, but we'll see how close we get.

Uh you can watch us in real time in several different ways, attend in person in the city commission room.

Stream us live on your computer by going to the meetings video page at Bozeman.

You can also join us via video conference.

You'll find the link to join us by clicking on the calendar event for the meeting on Bozeman's main webpage to find the City Commission agenda.

Click the link to register and follow the prompts to enter the meeting.

Lastly, you can call to listen in.

You'll find the phone number for the video conference and access code on the agenda.

Please note this is for listening only, and you will be unable to give verbal public comment using this method of participation.

If you're joining us through video conference and are having connectivity issues, try exiting out of the meeting and coming back in.

If you continue to have issues, please remember you can also listen via the phone information streaming live on the website or on cable on channel one ninety.

If you would like to offer public comment this evening, there are three ways you can do that.

You can make your public comment in person here in the commission room.

If you're joining us through video conference, you can use the raise your hand feature.

When it's your turn to comment, staff will call you by name.

Please remember to go back in and lower your hand when you have finished making your comment.

Are there any disclosures?

No disclosures.

Oh first.

Sorry.

So Trenton.

James Webster.

Chelsea Holling.

Awesome.

Daniel Nicholas.

Ashley Wilson.

Here.

Michael Wiseman.

Here.

And Mitchell Corus.

Here.

Okay.

Now are there any disclosures?

Still no.

Any changes to the agenda?

Okay.

Any public service announcements.

Okay.

Then uh can I get a motion to approve the minutes from our last meeting January twenty first.

I make a motion to approve.

Mover Wilson.

Second or chorus.

Okay.

Um James Webster.

Chelsea Holland.

Okay.

Danielle Nicholas.

Hi.

Awesome.

Okay.

Um any consent items.

I don't see any on the agenda, so move to public comment.

Um so this is the time to comment on any matter falling under our scope.

You can comment on non-agenda items.

Um there will also be time in conjunction with each agenda item for public comment relating to that item, but you may only speak once per topic.

Please note the board cannot take action on any item which does not appear on the agenda.

All persons addressing the board shall speak in a civil and courteous manner, and members of the audience will be respectful to others.

Please state your name and state whether you are a resident of the city or property owner within the city in an audible tone of voice for the record and limit your comments to three minutes.

Is there any public comment at this time?

Hi my name is Jeff Ball.

I am a city resident and I live over at 323 South Wallace Avenue.

Um I'm not quite sure how this is rolling out.

I heard that they wanted comments.

They, I guess, is you all comments on the conservation overlay district.

Um I've lived in Bozeman since 77.

I've lived over here since um 91 or 94.

We bought land in 91.

But um it's been fairly distressing to see the height of the buildings in the downtown area in the B3.

Um I think the the biggest starting point was the Black Olive project on olive and uh black.

Um there was a big effort with the neighbors to try to have a gentle transition to the normal height of the neighborhood buildings.

And um that sort of was blown by and it and since then that was I don't know, eight or ten years ago.

It it is really, really accelerated, and I'm I'm here to um say that as much as the horses left the barn and we can't really put the genie back in the bottle.

I think we actually can.

It's just a matter of will.

And I would strongly recommend that we stop and move the lines back.

B3 used to be on street, the center of a street.

It didn't go mid-block.

We extended into the mid block and we started to insinuate a problem for all of the neighbors.

Anybody's adjoining that mid-block new line.

We diminished the property values of people that had bought under a certain zone and a certain uh thought that they might ha actually have some comfort and knowledge that they were protected by zoning.

And the zoning changed.

Magical new line, and all of a sudden they're looking up, crooking their neck to look up at a six-story intrusive building in their midst.

Um I used to own property at 118 South Church, and that's two doors down from the new proposed building that's possibly going asking for and might get permitted for an additional 20 feet.

And um the next door buildings have been extensively remodeled.

It used to be a historic preservation building, and it actually used to be the overland stage, and now that's gonna be in the shadow of a very tall building, and um there's no transition.

We've got short buildings downtown, a stockade developing around the town as though we're in a fort, and then we have a very abrupt non-transition, and the old plans used to call for a gentle transition, and that's just been blown apart.

And I I don't appreciate it, and I do think that we need to walk back and say no and reinstitute some of the more pragmatic and realistic things that don't diminish people's property values and don't blow downtown apart.

Many of these new buildings are vacant.

There may be residents for a few weeks of every year, but the market is in is fallible and we're we don't have good occupied downtown space.

We're just throwing buildings up and sprawl is continuing.

So the whole premise of thickening and having a bikeable walkable community is a farce.

Anyway, I appreciate your time.

I gotta go to uh power generation meeting over at the library.

We're trying to fight the big data center thing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh greetings.

My name is Mark Campanelli.

Uh I'm a Bogert Park uh resident.

I own my house with the bank, I always like to say since about 2016.

Um I also am in the president and ink rep rep for Bogur Park.

I speak for myself, but informed by some of what I've heard back from the neighbors.

So uh looking at how the whole UDC thing rolled out, I kept thinking the NCOD is in such a state of disrepair.

How are they moving forward with this?

Like this is just gonna be a nightmare.

And so here we are.

Um there is a transition, by the way, on the on the depot street and church sloping down to the south at a 45 degree angle to the uh residential zoning um mid-block.

But uh, you know, I've seen worse buildings, but like you look at the building and you're like, hey, profit maximization, right?

That's what it screams to any anybody looking at it after the people north of them have dumped what has to be millions into a historic renovation of that property.

Like it's ridiculous.

Like the word ridiculous just comes to mind.

Um I just have seen with the Guthrie and other things, like staff, they they look at guidelines and they think optional.

When I looked at the code and read the code, like the purpose of the NCOD is code, like it is supposed to be achieved.

The guidelines are flexibility in how to achieve that, in my view.

So we need clarity about all this.

Um I think the consultants are listening.

This is just causing division, headache, really bad things with neighbors.

Um please take take these comments to heart.

And it's just it's just but it's just becoming ridiculous.

I keep coming up with the word just ridiculous.

So, anyways, thank you.

Hi there, good evening.

Thank you for your service.

Thanks for listening to us, and hopefully it will inform any recommendation you might make to the city commission.

My name is Angie Khoik, and I am the INC rep for the Northeast Neighborhood Association.

Um, but I'm speaking for myself tonight.

I am a small business owner and a Bozeman resident who proudly lives within the neighborhood conservation overlay district and have for um about 30 years.

This city has rightfully spent taxpayer dollars on consultants who help us preserve and protect Bozeman's heritage as time goes by and as new development naturally takes place.

Some of you may recall, and if you weren't yet on the board and you weren't paying attention last year, I had um encourage you to maybe listen to some of the past meetings.

Um there were discussions about the concept of whether the NCOD guidelines were enforceable or merely said suggestions taking up space in our city code.

Does someone want to speak?

I'll just repeat that.

Um about a year ago, there were discussions about the concept of whether the NCOD guidelines were enforceable or just taking up space in our city code.

My view is that the NCOD guidelines were absolutely intended to carry weight.

So out of curiosity, I did a search for the word guidelines in our Bozeman's municipal code.

And I got 11 hits to different ordinances that use the word guidelines.

And I'll share a sampling of them with you now.

Resolution 5398 is about the city's drought management plan.

It provides guidelines on how to proactively implement drought mitigation and response actions.

Ordinance 202504, repealed and replaced language about regulated activities and wetlands and water courses.

Administrative procedures authorized include guidelines necessary to conduct an analysis of alternatives to the proposed action and guidelines related to the content of required monitoring report.

And the City of Bozeman Design and Construction Standards, Transportation System, Roadway Design, and Technical Criteria, Section 7.1.3 traffic calming reads.

This section provides guidelines for the implementation of various traffic calming measures.

Designers shall utilize approved traffic calming features to reduce the probability of local street speeding.

Traffic control devices must be placed outside the SWEP path while maintaining conformance with wait for it, manual of uniform traffic control devices guidelines.

So as you can see, guidelines do carry weight.

Arguably both very important elements for a safe and healthful environment.

Therefore, guidelines matter and are not loosey-goosey language that can we can take or leave.

Guidelines are general rules or declarations of city policy.

They can be seen as standards with wiggle room for site specificity and special situations.

But guidelines absolutely matter and should be treated as such.

If the rubbing point is semantics, then change NCOD guidelines to another term that more accurately reflects what we actually mean when we say we want to respond to community goals and values and to follow current best practices and historic preservation.

Thank you for listening to the U.S.

Daniel Cardi, Bozeman resident.

I live within the NCOD in R4, actually Arts RC now, across the street from B3.

Last summer I went on one of the Northside Walks with one of the city commissioners, and there were about 10 of us on that walk.

About half of us were Northside residents, some from the other parts of town, and a few developers.

When that walk was over, one of the developers took one of us aside and said, you people need to get out of our way.

For those of us who live in the downtown core who live within the NCOD.

We are just minor aitants that need to be swept aside by the developers who are building four over ones, five over ones, and under the new B3, 90 feet, which could be seven over one.

So I do thank the city for undertaking this important NCOD update.

Definitely we need a NCOD that has legal teeth because Bozeman residents value historic preservation and heritage conservation, and that is why we need legal teeth in the NCOD.

So again, I thank the city for undertaking this important update and look forward to seeing the NCOD update work with the landmark project to protect and maintain Bozeman's historical character, sense of place, and natural resources.

For example, our urban forest, our view sheds, and our solar access, which in turn will help Bozeman remain the most livable place for all.

Thank you.

Hey Jim, would you mind putting yourself on mute when we're just getting some kind of feedback from you a little bit when you're not speaking?

Thank you.

Hello, Marcia Cavaney, uh Bozeman resident and speaking tonight for myself and also for the tree Bozeman Tree Coalition, of which I am a co-founder.

Um, we call it BTC.

Um I want to speak now because comments aren't always taken after a special special presentation, even with the script.

So I just uh take care of it now so that hopefully this topic or these questions could come up with your after your presentation.

Um the NCOD update uh in the staff memo says it'll include an overhaul of the guidelines to align with best practices and historic preservation, also respond to community goals and values and support the ongoing local landmark project.

So the Lakota group will highlight their experience and give a brief project overview.

Um I wanted to pose these questions and comments so that you could maybe ask these or they could cover them in their program.

Um it's just two questions.

One, will the landscaping design guidelines be included in the update?

BTC agrees with the earlier public comment that the guidelines are options for how to achieve the goals or codes of the NCD, NCOD.

We're very interested in how that plays out for the protection of mature trees in the downtown historic area.

And then the second one is will the landmark program still include the Heritage Trees program, or has this been completely transferred to the forest management update management plan update.

And if it's been transferred, just curious how did this decision come about, and will trees still be considered as possible landmarks during that program?

Um and how if so, how will they differ from the Heritage Tree program?

So we're just as BTC, we're just kind of curious how that all is going to play out.

Thank you.

Hello.

I'm Ken Sinnay.

I've lived in the NCOD since uh 93.

And I remember when I when I simply wanted to change my roof, I put a metal roof on my house.

The house is 126 years old.

And I had to get a permit for this.

It's just it's just impressive.

All of you, and I sincerely appreciate you all being here doing this as well as the attendees.

Um, you know, all of us, we we're devoted.

We're living in downtown Bozeman.

And downtown Bozeman, the NCOD area is the heart, believe me, I mean, it's what brings everybody to this valley, whether you live in Three Forks or Manhattan or Belgrade or Logan, um, or you know, West Bozeman, um, or Livingston for that matter.

So it what you're doing is very, very, very important.

There's no doubt about it.

Some of the comments made um by the folks behind me extremely valuable.

I'm kind of new at this.

It takes me a while to figure out what NCOD stands for, UDC stands for, and there's another one out there somewhere.

But but the fact of the matter is I know one of them.

I'm a NIMBY.

Okay, so there's no doubt about it.

When I learn about this place on um South Church, this depot, um, which I just learned about really today, uh I've been out of town for about a week.

Uh it you know, it's it's obviously to me, it's obviously in the wrong spot, and it's obviously extremely tall.

And what we I've been paying somewhat some attention to some of these other ones, uh the Guthrie and the Black and Olive development, and I've seen the controversy there.

So obviously, you have a big job, and and everybody in the community has a big job to share their feelings about this and their opinions.

I know it's not easy.

I know that.

But when we see something happen like that, like this depot one, for example, right by parks, or when we see, you know, and which has historically been surrounded, it's a historic district, and it's historically been surrounded by much, much smaller buildings.

Uh it just strikes me as totally out of place.

It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe a knock it back to 70 feet.

It's still going to be out of place in my personal opinion.

But it just doesn't, it just doesn't fit.

The this concept of step back, and again, I'm new to this and I'll be paying more attention, I'll make some formal comments, but the but the idea of stepping back, sure, I mean there's definitely ideas out there that I haven't thought of or haven't even considered, and it seems like a good idea to step down in your height, for example, or back from the edge of the property.

But the reality of it is if you put up an antenna that was 82 feet high, nobody would like it.

So these some of these height considerations are virtually absurd.

The comment about solar access, this is huge for downtown.

And again, the the cosmetics of it, the historic aspect of it, the community aspects of it, they are extremely valuable, not only to the people who live there, but to the people in the entire valley.

And when I say the valley, I mean all the way down the gallatin to three forks, and I mean all the way over the pass, which is beyond the valley, to Livingston.

Because this really is that region, the region we're talking about here, is of great value to the re the entire region, anything that's accessible and and every single industry that takes place within this valley.

So thank you very much.

I appreciate your time and your investment, and I appreciate you listening.

Thanks.

Thank you for coming forward.

Is there any online comment?

If you would like to provide public comment.

Please use the raise your hand feature.

We have a Zero Osman.

Hello.

My name is Zara Osman.

I'm a resident of Bozeman.

And I um wanted to first of all welcome Lakota group.

Hopefully your historical architect subcontractor is joining us tonight.

We were really glad to hear that you had that expertise on board.

If not, please um maybe ask them to listen to the recording of this meeting.

All of these meetings are recorded.

Um I wanted to start out by talking about the NCOD, um, which we the city has had repeated um uh uh uh uh has repeatedly studied over time to make to um talk about what if it if it is valid, if it needs to be updated, and and here we are again.

So good luck to you guys.

I hope you guys are able to make this one stick.

The Montana State Historic Preservation Office has used Bozeman's NCOD as an example of a gold standard of how to um manage pr historic preservation in a city.

In the early 2000s, a former city historic preservation officer and Bozin resident um uh recently submitted public comment about a year ago that kind of highlights how according to Section 38.340 point oh one oh of Bozeman's municipal code, the intent and purpose of the NCOD is to stimulate the restoration and rehabilitation of structures and all other elements contributing to the character and fabric of established residential neighborhoods.

New construction will be invited and encouraged, provided primary emphasis is given to the preservation of existing buildings and further provided the design of such new space enhances and contributes to the aesthetic character and function of the property and the surrounding neighborhood area.

Um according to a s the former uh city manager uh be for Bozeman between the years nineteen ninety and two thousand eight, um, who who submitted a public comment last summer, he stated that he kind of highlighted how people who live within the NCOD for all these years have had to first of all pay a uh application fee and then had to be required to um to get a uh an certificate of appropriateness.

And this uh uh certificate application talks about things like modifications must be more historically appropriate for the building and site in question and the adjacent properties as determined in section 38.340.050 of the Bozeman municipal code.

And the reason I'm citing these codes numbers is because we have I mean if if the guidelines aren't doing it and the code isn't doing it, um we're trying to figure out how what it is that we need to have something that has teeth to preserve our historic buildings.

Further, the stand the COA, the certificate of appropriateness talks about complying with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Historic Preservation and specifically under standards for rehabilitation, it talks about how um new additions, new construction.

Um it talks about uh new work will be differentiated from the old, but will be compatible with the historic materials feature, size, scale, and proportion, and massing to protect the integrity of the property and the environment.

And the reason I mentioned that is um that in what you'll find as you're uh reviewing the city uh history of the NCOD is in 2015 subchapter 4-B guidelines for the B3 commercial character area kind of went crazy on this notion of differentiated from old.

That differentiated from old in the Secretary of the Interior Standards doesn't mean that you have to build something in direct opposition of whatever architectural style was there.

It just means it should be obvious to the viewer that that building is not is not his that portion of the building or that new building is not fake historic.

But you do need to be compatible, and that is something that is very well outlined, outlined not only in the code, but in the guidelines, which are really well done, and also in the Secretary of the Interior Standards, which is a time tested document um that has some very good detail and very good examples.

And also in the Secretary of the Interior Standards, which is a time-tested document that has some very good detail and very good examples.

So it seems like we already have everything we need, and it's just a matter of moving this to a place where people can understand that it is not compulsory.

It is um it is something that we are um that it that it's not yet uh that it's something that we need to um to just honor um just like all the residents who have lived there have honored all these decades.

Thank you.

Any other online public comment, please use the raise your hand feature.

I believe that's all okay.

Now we'll move on to our special presentation.

I just have to put them on full screen.

Um then because I'm the president, I'm gonna do this.

Or maybe they should share it then.

I believe it's typically the group.

We are actually gonna uh it now is set up where you sharing it will be the best route to go.

So um based on now how it's laid out on the screen.

So but it's your I'll oh floor for your the presentation, yeah.

Um team does anybody have it open the share?

I can share it.

I can share it.

All right, now you've lost it.

Sure.

Let me see here where I should there we go.

Because then they because then you won't be able to see them, right?

Or you try yeah.

Or hold on.

Let me let me try.

This is a second.

We always have to.

But then we don't see them.

Yeah.

And they can't see us.

Yeah, Lakota Group, are you able to see that presentation?

We can see the slides, but we don't see the rooms.

That's okay.

Okay.

Yeah, have them share it.

Okay, yeah, you guys share it then.

Okay, just one moment.

How is that?

That looks great.

Yeah, just put it into full screen mode.

Bottom, bottom right corner.

Third icon or view and yeah, sorry, just moving out.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I guess while um we get the set it is it good for us to get going, Sarah.

Is that take it away?

Somebody wanting to give an intro.

Okay, awesome.

Well, thank you, everybody.

My name is Saraj Al Sahani.

I'm the senior vice president of the Dakota group, and I'll um let the team introduce themselves in just a second.

But I before we before we begin, um, I just want to say we really appreciate all the comments that that came out tonight.

And and um the passion that we hear is um really intricate and important as part of the spanning process.

And I want to acknowledge that we understand the design guidelines and Bozeman are not just a technical document.

This carries a lot of history, this carries a lot of community expectation and a real sense of you know responsibility because it shapes how change happens in these places that beauty people care deeply about.

So um, you know, w we we understand that the city is growing.

There's growth that's happening.

So the the question is not about if changes happen.

Change will always happen, but it's uh what we're trying to do is fall to the manage, right?

Change.

And it's not just that's just a sliver or a piece of the document.

It goes beyond that.

So it um we're we're here to help protect character, provide clarity, um, offer predictability, and yes, and and in a lot of ways provide the regulatory framework that could be defensible.

So um it's it's uh you know, with with the way we approach this work, there's a lot of respect for our what already exists, and the goal is to try and make sure that the next version is clearer, more cohesive, and more effective.

And so everybody can rely on right.

So from here, I'll just uh let the rest of the team introduce themselves really quickly and then um I'll go through a few slides.

Matt.

Sure.

Hi, everybody.

My name is Matt Cole, I'm director of preservation planning at the Lakota Group.

Scott.

Uh good evening, everybody.

Scott Ferris is the president of Lakota Group, and I uh want to thank you all for inviting us in your community and uh being your partner.

I heard I heard a couple terms tonight that I always I always laugh at, but they're the fact.

And one is we're thought of as the consultants.

Uh we like to think of ourselves as your partners and trying to uh get to where you need to be on this on this process.

And uh we've done that in lots of communities around the country where we felt like we've been successful being that partner.

I want to let you know we have our whole team here tonight.

Uh everybody you see on the screen is going to be actively participating in this.

And we do have our historic architect uh with us tonight too, because uh the whole team is important.

All voices are important and making uh the right choice and putting the right plan forward.

Right.

Matt, can we move on to the next slide, please?

And then Doug.

Hi, I'm Douglas Carrie, and I am a senior associate and uh in uh preservation planning.

Doug the other Doug?

I'm the other Doug.

I'm Doug Gilbert with Douglas Gilbert Architect Inc.

And I'm I'm the historic preservation architect that was referred to in some of the comments earlier.

So uh happy to be on the team here and uh bringing my expertise to the project.

Thank you all.

And there's other team members that aren't with us tonight, but um what you what you saw on the screen was really the core team for this project, and uh whether we're bringing preservation planning or design or engagement experience, um, or with Doug the architectural um perspective to all of this, um, you know, that our role is really collective um in this effort.

So if you go to the next slide, um we just want to provide a little bit of um overview of what we bring, right, to this work.

And first and foremost, it's uh it's a focus on the fact that we've worked nationwide and we try we we really do understand aside from what we've experienced on the field and fields, we do bring national best practices into what we do and try to tailor it as much as we can to local local application and how it's most important to the communities we're working with.

Um so what we're what we're trying to achieve is this intersection between policy and design, um, but more importantly, producing something that at the end of the day everybody can use.

This is the most important piece of this uh puzzle.

It's just that clarity and predictability um that we want to bring to the table.

Go to the next slide.

Um here we're just showing one uh project that we worked on in uh Lebanon, Tennessee.

But if you look at any of our uh design guidelines reports, really you'll see that at the end of the day, um we believe that design guidelines should should be readable, clearly um illustrated and accessible to a wide range of users.

Um whether we're talking property owners, whether we're talking about architects or board members, um, you know, it's it's it's really meant to take out that jargon.

Um there's a lot of preservation um uh we're all die higher preservationists, right?

And if we come together and write a document, maybe the the the everyday person might not understand it, but we pay a lot of attention to that, and we make sure that everyone um can make use of the document.

We move on to the next slide.

Um, and this is gonna be a big focus of tonight's conversation, community engagement.

And we'll talk a little bit about it as our team um walks you through a few slides, but um it's gonna be further expanded upon tonight.

And it's because we understand the weight of this document, this process.

And for us at Lakota, it's it's not just for design guidelines, it's for any preservation planning effort that we um that we work on.

Engagement is a core part of this process because we need to understand that local flavor, the local issues and uh and and where the opportunities um exist.

And um our our commitment to you all is going to be to listen to and to inform you first first and foremost to listen to all the things that you have to share with us for more um details and then to make sure that we kind of bring it back to you.

So there's an educational element to this, there's active hearing as part of this, but there's also um constant loops of feedback that really do influence the the decisions at the end of the day.

And if we go to the next slide here, we're just showing um some formats that we've done engagement in um in the past, and you can see there's multiple formats here, whether it's workshops or finding people where they're at and going to pop-ups farmers market, and any chance we can uh we have to meet people, we definitely take that on.

Any chance we can uh we have to meet people we definitely take that on, and aside from just meeting people in person, we understand not everybody can do that.

Um we try to open up digital outreach um and platforms for people to engage as much as possible.

And um that's how we see meaningful engagement and input happening.

Um we're just showing a few more examples here of how we try to put a lot of emphasis on making sure that these documents are also exciting to flip through, right?

We want to make sure it's not a boring document.

Um it's something you were putting um effort into the graphics of it so it's easily um understood and um by everybody here we're uh showing you know how the fact that we've done engagement on even a statewide level, and this is for the state of Texas when we did their historic preservation plan and we the treaty went on an engagement tour.

Um and we're this is just trying to show that that it is a commitment, right?

Um we're not here to check a box, and we're we're we're trying to do as much as we can to make sure that we hear um from as many people as we can um and bringing everybody to the table.

So this is a much bigger scale than what we're doing right now, but it really just meant to show commitments.

And at the end of the day, um we can always um find ways to put these documents online so they're very accessible digitally as well and readily available for everybody.

I think with that I'll hand over to Doug.

Thank you, Saraj.

Um, so the goals for the project, um, you know, we've talked about this and we've heard about, but um, we understand that we want to the new guidelines the revised guidelines guidelines to reflect you know the best practices and preservation and to make sure that they are meeting the needs of the uh current community character as it's evolved over time, wanted to meet the needs and address the issues, and we are working closely with city staff to make sure that the new guidelines, updated guidelines, um they reflect changes to the UDC as well as the new landmark program.

And um, as you just heard, we prioritize community engagement, and we have we will have opportunities throughout the process to listen and to hear what the community has to say, and we want um the guidelines to be visually appealing and an organization that is easy to use, and uh of course we will make sure that the guidelines will be in compliance with the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation.

Next slide.

Um we understand that Bozeman is a desirable place to live, and that is it's um really uh a community preservation is a very uh uh priority, sorry.

It's a community priority, and we understand that.

I mean, just seeing the conservation district, the storic districts, individual properties and the landmark program.

I mean, that's impressive for any community, and so we understand that it's a priority, and that because Bozeman is a desirable place to live, it's experiencing a lot of pressure from the growth.

And we heard a lot about that just uh a little bit ago from uh residents.

Um the new construction and the pressure to build maximum.

Um that's you know, has the potential to impact the character.

And so um we also want to make sure that the guidelines um are easier to use and that it's clear what guidelines uh represent um should be used for historic preservation properties versus character conservation district properties.

Uh so that's something we need to have a discussion about with the community.

Uh next slide, please.

And so we understand the guidelines are going to address exactly that what I just mentioned, um changes to properties within historic districts versus changes to properties that are outside but within the conservation district.

Changes to properties within historic districts versus changes to properties that are outside but within the conservation district.

How are they reviewed?

What is the review process and is it different for these different types of properties?

Massing in scale of new construction and additions.

We understand that this is a major issue that it's impacting historic properties and the historic character.

And so the guidelines are going to address that.

We also want to make sure there's a balance between the guidelines standards and the underlying zoning requirements.

And again, another major issue that we've been hearing about.

And if you go to the next slide.

We've also provided a case study at the that highlighted an example of new construction in the district that the city and the commission, their historic commission, they thought this was of an excellent example that they wanted other people to see when doing new construction.

And so we included it as a case study.

Next slide, please.

And this slide and the next one are just uh some examples of our graphics that we have used in other documents.

Next and the next slide, I believe.

Turning it back to Saraj.

Thank you.

Thank you, Doug.

Yes.

Um we we are we're really happy to show all these different project examples, and it's it's really meant to show that we've worked across the nation and at different scales, is what I think is important to highlight here, whether it's at a county level, whether it's specific district, whether it's for a city, um, it's it's or at a state level.

And so being able to scale the type of work that we do and make sure that it's nuanced and it is tailored to the communities that we're working with is something that we specialize in.

And this is why we try to show the different scales of projects that we've done and also different contexts, because they're not all from the same, you know, same big geographic regions.

But it's all meant to focus on one thing, and that's enhancing and celebrating local heritage.

And with this slide, which I believe is our last slide, we just wanted to kind of bring to everybody's attention what the project approach is.

So everybody's on the same page.

So we're working in a two-phase process, and that's how we've structured it.

Where the first phase is really we're focused on research, we're focused on engagement, our conversations with you, understanding what's top of mind, what are these issues related to preservation, related to rehabilitation, reuse, maintenance.

We're gathering all this information, we're building that foundation of knowledge, and then we move into that second phase where we start drafting the updated guidelines, we start including standards, we start understanding what's regulatory, we start highlighting um what's just simply best practices, um, and um we are bringing those drafts back to the community.

So engagement is going to be part of both processes, and it's not just going to be at the fore uh the at the forefront of the process where we're just simply understanding issues, and then we want you to see what a document is looking like as we shape it so you're part of the decision-making process.

So I believe that's all we have.

And with that, that really brings us um to the day's discussion on um R side here.

But we're looking forward to your feedback and working collaboratively as we go on with the next steps.

So if you have any questions, we're open to that um as well.

Yeah, open for discussion among the boards.

Any questions for the code group?

Hi there.

Can you hear me okay?

Yeah, okay.

Um, really great to see um to see your work and um you seem to have a wide breadth of of knowledge and historic preservation, which is awesome to see.

Um have you been to Bozeman yet.

Uh I I I've been there for vacation and for skiing.

So I can say that I've been there, but I haven't spent the time to look at your town through the lows we are now, if that makes sense.

It does, and we're looking forward to that.

Yes, we're looking forward to that very much.

Um very much.

Yeah.

And my question is um, oftentimes um historic preservation and economic growth and benefits are seen as um opposing forces.

And I just kind of wanted to get your take on um the role of historic preservation in economic vitality within economic vitality.

Right.

Um that's a great question.

That that is that is a myth, right?

I think this is this is uh something we emphasize a lot when we're doing a historic preservation plan because it's often a myth that the people think economic development and historic preservation do not go hand in hand, but the truth is they do, and often you see um it's it's it's a really common um perception, right?

But it it in practice the opposite is really true, and preservation is not just about um it's it's it's it's really about shaping the way that that that a place becomes more valuable, right?

And so when we're emphasizing the city's identity, when we're trying to preserve the the the art defining defining features of a community, um that attracts more and more people to want to visit, to want to sh shop in your communities.

That character creates a desirability, right?

And that drives economic activity.

So we absolutely see the two going hand in hand, and they encourage one another.

So Raj, if I could just elaborate on that a little bit.

I think I think we've always taken the philosophy of the company that uh one of the best economic development tools is preservation.

And it's also a cultural and heritage preservation, not just in the form of buildings and the built environment.

As somebody pointed out tonight, the landscape character is equally important.

And in a community like yours, it's what drives people to come there.

I think that I think what where the where the where the riff is in that conversation is the word economic.

And economic development as a tool or the economics of land are two different things.

And what we've seen in your community, we've seen a thousand other communities that we've worked in is the economics of land and the sense of place are are moving in opposite directions.

Uh that is creating uh an environment of intense pressure to grow and change.

And all of the communities that we've worked in when we're developing historic preservation plans, frankly, are being reactionary to that.

They were not thinking about it in the past, but now all of a sudden it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We knew we had a great place there.

We didn't want anybody to find out about it.

Now we've got to throw up all the rules.

And that's where this that's where the world sees preservation as the uh trying to block everything.

And what we're really trying to tell people is the story is about heritage preservation in the form of architecture, in the form of a downtown, in the form of the landscape character in the form of view sheds in the form of a whole host of other things.

And that's the story we need to tell, and we need the right side and then put it in the context, frankly, of the economics.

Uh the economics uh are a big part of this story, you can't avoid them.

Uh you can turn your head, put your head in the sand about it, but the economics are driving the equation.

And you need to you need to educate yourself on that because there's value in understanding the economics that actually could help the preservation of the community if we get behind that.

Excellent.

Thank you.

I have a question.

Um I think like community engagement is great.

And if we're going to farmers markets, I feel like the people at the farmers markets are gonna say, yeah, we want our we want our town to remain beautiful, but I wonder about engaging with you know more of the professional building realm here, uh architects, builders, getting them to want to build in a way that aligns with the beautiful architecture.

I think um, you know, it just feels like a lot of times they they kind of want the the whatever the design or inspiration is and it feels out of place.

Um so I wonder about how do you get people in that level to want to preserve a town.

Right.

I think in a lot of ways um we will have stakeholder interviews.

That's gonna be a big part of it.

We want to understand what are some of the barriers they're they're kind of running into as part of this process, um, and why the decision to not necessarily be context sensitive first and foremost is is happening.

Um I mean it's the same story, Sarah.

We just experienced recently in Franklin, Tennessee, which uh I would say prides itself as the nation's capital of historic preservation and managing it in a in a graceful way, both in their downtown but in their historic battlefield sites.

The question you brought up related to architects and the design community and their desire to expand beyond and and have that uh you know cool chic West couture of architecture that you're seeing probably in your community is all the West Mountain communities are experiencing, and why can't we have uh a a more a more balanced uh approach to design that respects the character of the community.

That's that's a tough question.

We've asked that to architects before.

A lot of them are like, well, architecture is meant to be changed, architecture is meant to to uh expand and and and and and and meet new generations and new times, which is okay, uh fair.

A lot of them are like, well, architecture is meant to be changed, architecture is meant to uh expand and and and and and and meet new generations and new times, which is okay, uh fair, but a lot of the architects were talking to them in Frank or said the rules and regulations and process were so difficult that they were finding every loophole that they could to avoid it to get around all of that detail because of the cost and the time and the effort involved in it.

So some of it may just be in how it's presented to the architecture community, uh, not only in the guidelines, but also in the the zoning code.

Thank you.

I had a question just on uh kind of educational components in that side of of public engagement.

Um I'm an architect, so we have some other folks on the board who are in the industry.

Uh we have people on the board who are not, and we have a lot of public who is really doing, I think, a great job of actually getting themselves informed and up to speed and trying to come to these meetings and speak intelligently on these topics.

But um it it's a lot to take on, and not everybody can do it.

And I think uh uh I'm just curious what sort of things you have planned, or if you have anything planned as part of the public engagement, this just includes education across the board.

Uh the question on you know economic vitality was a great one, and that's something you know just doesn't get doesn't always get addressed when people are um you know looking at other topics.

I'm just wondering about what you would bring for that, and then if there are components that you know we'll be working through some of these public engagements while you're not here, things you can get to us to be able to have good talking points about, and so we can speak, you know, kind of informed and and how you approach that.

Yeah, no, that's a great question.

And and we understand that this is very this can get very technical, it can get very detailed, and it's it's not it's not everybody's cup of tea, and they don't necessarily always understand it from right from the beginning.

And it is part of our role to try and dissect that and simplify it and bring it to the community in ways that are very educational, um, whether it's simplifying terms, whether it's clarifying what's a myth and what's a fact, bringing case studies, trying to help them understand um what you know why property values can actually increase instead of decrease if preservation was on property, why um economic vitality is part of that, how sustainability can play a role in all of this is trying to simplify these topics for the community um in just simple terms and and and showing examples as much as we can and trying to illustrate um what we're talking about.

So I think for the for the most part, every every engagement opportunity we we come to, we try to think of it as uh spitting it in half.

One part is educational, and then one part is us bringing ideas and testing them with the community and seeing how they can respond to them.

So, you know, here's some background knowledge because we don't expect you to know everything, and then based on what you just understood, um, here's how we're hoping to make change happen, and let's try to test different ideas and see what works for you and if you see there's the there's value in this vision.

Um I think they'll I think as we uncover I think we're gonna uncover as we are tonight, just by visiting with you on this first night, we're starting to hear some key themes and key topics that are arising.

And those that'll come out, that'll come out even more in the engagement.

I think our job is to figure out how we can best communicate back on those topics or those themes, how we can educate on them, how we can clarify them, or how we can illustrate them more effectively so people really understand the topics, the issues, and and as we get further along the potential solutions uh or opportunities that come out of this.

Thanks.

Jim, you got your hand up, I see.

Yeah, okay, yeah, I just didn't know if I should go or wait to be called on, but uh no, thank you, Lakota group for being here with us tonight.

And um yeah, for uh me, it's interesting to see where we've come in the last 30 plus years in Bozeman, because I, as a young buck in my 30s, was first on this board back in the 90s and was on it for 15 years, then off for about 15 years and have come back on.

So that's my short story.

And looking at it now, the climate is quite different.

And here I'm not trying to say stir the pot, but I will bring up an item that I know is it's on the minds of many out in the public, and certainly I think even some that are in the room, and that is Lakota.

What how do you handle where you've got our board, which again is an advisory board with no real certainly um policy making power, but we are encouraged to be advisory, and we take that seriously.

And at the risk, and again, city, excuse me, but I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but it is a situation where city staff seem to hold more power over a board, and I must say, coming out of the for-profit world, but being a um part of many nonprofits, I have seen where it's boards that should retain much say um oh much of the creativity to set agendas and what gets done and give the staff direction.

Now, maybe one can say the municipal model is different, but I'll suggest that city staff are kind of directing us, and when you've got a situation where and this is not the fault of the individual, so certainly uh I am not uh taking exception to any individual, it's the situation they find themselves in.

But when people are both saylers and they're also on the historic preservation end, I'll just say asking in a neutral way, how Lakota group would you look at that and suggest that the city handle that going forward?

I think if I were a city staffer that had to do both planning and look at the preservation topics, I think very hard because that does set up a potential, and I say potential, conflict of interest that uh, you know, is not an easy one to deal with.

So I certainly feel, and I know many people feel for these individuals, but nonetheless, that needs to be dealt with because you've already heard tonight and you've heard it from the seven people that made public comments that uh the teeth have gone out of the NCOD.

I must say I see a lot of the teeth have gone out of the historic preservation board from the time that I first joined it, and I'm hoping that that can be reinstated in an appropriate way.

Not that we should be making all the policy, it's not what I'm saying, but that there should be certainly more discussion, and that is at the root of everything is discussion and communication.

And I know for one thing, I'll just ask after tonight.

I don't know when you all well, you all are coming back to Bozeman or not coming back, but you'll be here in April.

Can we have the appropriate contact information for the appropriate individual or individuals on your team that we can engage in dialogue with between now in April.

And I hope I'm not out of line there, but I'm just asking the question because I'm not sure that's been put forth at this point.

And thank you for your con consideration.

Right.

Right.

No, thank you for this comment.

And um, it's uh this is definitely a unique situation.

But we we do see that the advisory board really plays an important role in this process.

I mean we're we're going to be bringing all this information forward to you all, and we're hoping that with the discussions, the perspective, the expertise, um, it's gonna shape the direction and keep us moving forward.

Um we understand that there's uh there's a situation here with the city um that is a little bit out of the control of this process, and we hope you know there's there's go going to be really some folks that stand behind the seat that we put in the in the plan.

Um so you know the city does ultimately adopt the document, but the advisory board is really essentially uh kind of forming and refining and and supporting us putting this forward.

And I think another big piece of this this this planning process and why we wanted to emphasize on engagement a lot is we wanted to and you'll you'll hear a little bit more about that when we when the city dives into engagement a little bit more.

We have a neighborhood uh neighborhood advisory group as well that is going to be um helping us understand what the issues with the community are and so we're bringing that to you and to the city at the end of the day.

So we're laying everything on the table and we are going to be bringing all the best practices that we know of and all of the experience that we've seen in the field to show you what the what the best scenarios are and then we can take discussions from there.

But we will be doing our best to bring um the the the teeth and and what's right um in our suggestions.

And um what I wanted to share last in terms of being being open to communication channels we're always open to communication channels and um we we are working very closely with Sarah and the rest of the team and I think that would be a great way to kind of funnel information to the consulting team or preservation team.

Okay well we're certainly not asking you to be referee or an arbitrator here but none nonetheless these things are out there so we know that there will be spirited discussions going forward well I I think we I we appreciate that we know that uh we're this isn't our first rodeo part of the pod we've we've we've uh we these topic these topics uh are popping up everywhere and um suffice it to say we're hearing you loud and clear uh we're also seeing across the country it's not on dissimilar to you all uh the uh concern over um watering down of advisory boards uh the the the downside of that is we're gonna lose our vol we're gonna lose our volunteer base of America at some point in time when we do that and uh we're seeing it all the time and we're actually trying to write that into community comprehensive plans to reinforce the strength of advisory boards before you don't have a uh a community uh uh basis for making decisions so we're we're on board with that we understand that um also suffice it to say we're brand new this is our first night and we don't have all the answers we're listening and you see a lot of people smiling uh which means that we're not gonna say too much until we understand the lay of the land and uh make sure we understand where everybody's coming from we will absolutely sit with you and spend time with you but let's uh let's let the course take its uh let's take the path that's uh set up right now and uh we will find time to get with you and spend time with you and understand uh some of the comments that you brought up which I I hear them loud and clear thank you Scott Beth any other questions for the Dakota group Chelsea did you have anything uh no I don't I'm really excited that Sarah found a really great group in the city and everybody um to help us move forward with this process and this project all right well thank you very much for the presentation thanks for your time um I think we're all pretty excited to meet you guys in person and uh start diving into this and pushing things forward it's kind of been a long time coming so um yeah I look look forward to it a lot and I think uh with that we will move on to our next item did you guys have anything else you want to say no just thank you very much for the opportunity everybody we do look forward to visiting with you coming out there um my team hasn't been out there but I've been out there and uh it is uh it's a pretty special place to understand why it's important everybody so so uh so uh thank you again I have been to Boswin team I I I believe we are sticking around for the community engagement right or yeah yeah okay yeah you you're you're well and we're just gonna shrink you so you're not on the uh screen so that I can present my screen but yes you're you're stick around because you'll hear input since this will actually be an action item and we will receive public comment for as well so and my okay

But yes, you're you're stick around because you'll hear input since this will actually be an action item, and we will receive public comment for as well.

So stand my okay.

Okay, all so um one of our first, I mean, one of the first times you've all had like seen like an action item.

So we're gonna be working, we'll walk through this and uh guess to a place where you can give some really good recommendations, know how to make a motion, all of that good stuff.

But what we're I'm gonna do tonight, uh just kind of go over what our community engagement plan is for the NCOD design guidelines update.

Hello.

Okay.

So first off, we're gonna just kind of say like what is the city of Bozeman's uh community engagement plan, why do we have it, what's in it, then go over our community engagement specifically for the NCOD design guidelines projects, what our goals are, our proposed methods, and as well as our engagement timeline.

Then we will move on to some questions and discussion topics from you all, followed by public comment.

Uh, then once you can hear taking all of the you know the presentation, your all's discussion and public comment, make a motion and a vote, and then we'll move uh and that recommendation to the city commission and then move on with um seeing what's next steps and you all have some homework.

So pay attention.

Okay, so why do um why does Bozeman have a community engagement plan?

Well, the decisions we make in government affect people, and uh engagement generates buy-in and a sense of ownership in its decisions.

And we know that public participation leads to a stronger and better reform community.

The City of Bozeman has made a commitment to increase community engagement and decision making processes from the adoption of the 2018 strategic plan to the engage Bozeman platform that was uh adopted in 2021.

The city has established guideline principles for uh guiding principles to help develop tools and techniques for effective engagement efforts, and it has become a city, it has been a city commission priority for several years now.

Uh furthermore, the Montana Land Use Planning Act, which you all have heard on multiple came uh occasions called MLUPA.

Uh it requires that any community that adheres to MLUPA that city-led projects are required to develop a community engagement plan that identifies and establishes a process and methods for engaging uh public on the process and the project.

So, what is in our community engagement plan?

Well, you all saw it.

I hope you read it.

Great, cool.

That was homework one.

Just pass that test.

Uh that is um what's in that um plan.

So, first off, um it has our project overview, definition of key terms, identification, um, and sorry, identification on project leads and key partners, engagement strategies and methods, timeline of engagement activities, and measures of successful engagement.

So this uh is a exercise that we use when with the project team to walk through and ensure that what we are thinking about and how engagement would fit into the project.

These um plans are then make uh are end up made available to the public as part of the project planning and sharing these help with the public understanding of what to expect and when they will be asked to participate, how they can come into what the methods we are using, and so on and so forth.

This document also provides um I already said that.

So now I'm just being kind of going through each of these um points, kind of a higher view of um the engagement plan.

So you already already heard from Lakota um project as uh partners about how they were going to be helping with this project.

So I won't discuss anything more to do with kind of the overproject overview, but rather highlight what the goals are of engagement are.

So community engagement is an essential component of updating the design guidelines.

We've heard that a lot tonight that we really wanted to ensure that we get um a lot of voices in the room, both from residences all the way up through the design community and um architects and development community.

The goal of public engagement in this project is to inform the community and stakeholders about the role of the design guidelines and to gather meaningful input about community values and priorities related to historic preservation, neighborhood character, and design review.

Our engagement will focus on building shared understanding of the need for and the purpose of the design guidelines to ensure that the update is grounded in local knowledge and informed by those who live, work, and invest in this area.

There will be ample opportunities for the public to provide feedback and evaluate any proposed alternatives prior to any final decision making.

And so it is our goal to foster a sense of ownership and collaboration resulting in design guidelines that reflect the community's value and vision for the NCOD as well as historic preservation.

So what are some of the methods we are looking for?

So we heard again from the Lakota group about some of the methods they have used.

I want to just highlight some of the ones that we have out identified in the community engagement plan.

So we're looking at open houses and informational exhibits, stakeholder meetings, both virtual and in-person options ranging from wide uh a diverse array of folks from anything again from what I said to residents all the way from the design community.

We are also going to be uh facilitating doing facilitated conversations with a neighborhood focused group, which I will get a little bit more into that later.

Work sessions with you all as the historic preservation advisory board, progress updates to the city commission, doing social media posts, um, you know, we have a community uh communications team that helps a lot with that.

We have the engage Bozeman project page is where, you know, um, as we are very aware that that is where all of our city led projects live.

And then general public hearings, and then possibly uh looking into doing like some online survey or questionnaire or walking um walking conversation tours.

And so we want these methods to be flexible because we want to ensure that allowing public interest and participation and response to help guide how we are going to use these different engagement methods.

And it might make sense to consider different or additional methods, such as, like I was saying, like the online survey or walking conversation tours as we are progressing through this.

We might find that one method wasn't really the greatest way to get individuals' uh input.

So maybe we go another way.

So, or I'm just want to say, like we like what was suggested last month by Commissioner Sweeney is that we can wrap this up into preservation month.

Um, you know, we have the we want the Lakota group uh when they're here and visiting in person, they will lead most of the engagement, but we don't want to just confine our engagement to like the week that they're going to be here or those for those few days.

We need to expand that because we want to get a um a lot of you know we want to get a lot of input.

And so sometimes in that case, staff will lead those engagement events, and uh so that could be something leading into through preservation month and kind of using um that month and that kind of the uh that excitement around how we've done things in the past of being like engagement like how to um uh promote this project, gather input, and then how it interacts overall with the local landmark project.

So we just want to make sure really there are plenty of opportunities for the public to engage in a variety of different methods.

So this is our um proposed or potential um timeline.

So right now we are doing, and I'll get more into each one of these in the uh further slides, but um you know the plan uh it specifies a little bit more of them, but what I really wanted to highlight on them was just like where it's really involving the community like community engagement.

So, starting off with the project introduction.

We've been here.

This is what we're doing, and it's winter 2026.

We've kicked it off.

Uh, the consultant team and the project team have been doing some background research and we've been putting together this community engagement plan that was ultimately needs to be adopted.

Um, you know, you introducing this project and um adopting the community engagement plan.

We've been using, you know, the agenda, public meetings such as this one, as well as when we eventually go to the city commission.

Once this uh community engagement plan is adopted, we will then launch the engagement page and include the engagement plan on there.

And like other city projects, this will be kind of the one-stop shop for getting updates and staying engaged on the project.

You heard mentioned briefly from the Lakota group, as well as what I had mentioned earlier, is that something about uh creating a neighborhood focused group.

So this is in proposal of uh proposing is is in response to the inner neighborhood council's request to be involved in this project.

However, our proposal is to create separate neighborhood focused groups since not all of the neighborhood associations that are represented on in on Inc.

are in the NCOD.

So we figured rather than taking the time at Inc.

meetings, we thought it would be more productive to formalize a neighborhood focused group that would meet outside of Inc.

meetings.

Our suggestion for the neighborhood focus group is a representative from each neighborhood association within the NCOD.

So we would ask Inc.

members from the NCOD to select a representative.

It could be either the person from Inc.

Um is the neighborhood association representative, or it could be it could be someone else.

Um and so you know if you're like I'm on Inc., but you know what?

I actually know someone who lives within the um yeah, Cooper Park has store uh Cooper Park Neighborhood Association.

So uh and they're an architect, and I just think that they would be a really valuable person to be on this to give their insight.

So that is um, and then we would also include someone from the downtown Bozeman partnership because downtown and Main Street is in the NCOD.

And so it can either be someone from that um them individually or maybe a selected representative, one of their members who's on that.

And so throughout the process, we would be engaging with this focus group.

So uh spring 2026 is when we were kicking off the actual community engagement to gather feedback on existing guidelines and desires for the future guidelines.

So this will include an in-person visit from Lakota in April, but as mentioned before, we would probably offer additional in-person engagement efforts that would be conducted by staff when Lakota is not here.

Events will include in-person and virtual meeting events.

There could be open houses, informational exhibits, listening sessions, many of the different methods that we mentioned earlier, and we would just try to reach a broad audience to ensure we get a lot of input.

And then we would also be having a his um because Lakota will be here during the week of while HPAB meets, and then so we would dedicate that um meeting to a work session.

After uh the big push for the kind of um getting just general input on uh the design guidelines and what folks want to see in the future ones, we will go into the community engagement findings.

So from spring to summer, the Lakota group and uh will develop a community engagement memorandum, which is a summary of community engagement activities, feedback, and lessons learned.

Uh, they would then gather feedback from on this memorandum from city staff and the neighborhood focus group, and then eventually present it to HPAB, and we would post the uh memorandum on Engage Bozeman page.

So, I mean, the best example I can kind of give it to it, is like what we did with the survey results from the local landmark project of just like posting kind of like a summary of all of that so that you can kind of like it's also really good to reflect back on when you're kind of in the thick of the next phase of just being like, okay, yes, what were those people saying?

What did we hear?

What were those themes?

So, following that, um, then in the summer and early fall, the project team, including the Lakota group and staff would develop the first draft of the design guidelines.

Once it is ready for uh to publish for the community view, we expect that the Lakota group would come back for another in-person visit to host um another round of community engagement events to talk about the uh draft.

And so we would use again a variety of the different methods that we had mentioned earlier.

There would also be a work session with HPAB and then an update onto the draft to the city commission.

After receiving the engagement input and board review, the project team will develop the final draft design guidelines.

This again, kind of the same process as we do with the first draft is that this final draft will be posted for public review and both HPAB as well at the community development board, because at this point, when it's an adoption process of that, the community development board does need to be involved because it does have to include some uh ordinance and policy review.

So they'll have a chance to review it.

Um we would have it posted on Engage Bozeman, we'd have public notice about it, posted agendas, public hearings, all of those things.

And um public would also get the chance to be able to make comments and um recommendations uh based on what they have reviewed of it, and then this would ultimately be brought to the city commission.

Then we believe that we would be bringing the um the final draft of the design guidelines to the city commission in the winter, who because the city commission is the final decis decision authority.

Um we have heard all from you all, HPAB and I just and the community that previously that it would not be ideal for the review and the final adoption of these guidelines to be so close to the holidays.

And so we are definitely taking that into account with scheduling.

We'll be keep evaluating that as the project progresses.

So for you all, before we get into the actual motion, these are kind of the things that we are present because what I want is like you read it.

What do you think about it?

What are methods?

Here are some of the questions and discussion topics because this is can we be ultimately what we then could do some amendments to the plan to then uh present to the city commission.

So first one.

What do you think about the proposed neighborhood focus group?

Are there any other key audiences or stakeholders in the community we might be missing with this plan?

And if so, what are other methods might help us better reach them?

The floor is now yours.

How many people would be in the focus group?

So there are seven neighborhood associations.

We would try to keep it to one representative each because if we just kind of have too many of them, it's just gonna be a little difficult.

Our hope would be that um through these meetings, whether they're in-person meetings or virtual ones, it'll just have to be something that we know that we can find someone who can dedicate the time to um uh you know, providing input and everything, but then we would hope that they would work, whether it's the ink representative or um if it's not, that they would then communicate to the ink representatives so that they can then communicate to the neighborhood association.

I think it's a good idea.

Thanks.

Um I think that the online survey or questionnaire is super important.

That shouldn't be a maybe kind of thing.

Um, you know, I'm Cooper Park Historic District and um our steering committee, for instance, is very um concentrated.

Uh the majority of it lives at a singular address, and so um with the proposed neighborhood focused group, I feel like it's really important to make sure all the voices in a particular district are included.

Um, a lot of my peers are working multiple jobs and raising children, and I have a need to leave in 10 minutes because mine's home alone right now.

And so I think it really is essential to get an online survey out there, and that um the focus group is a good idea.

Um, and to take it with a grain of salt.

You know, for instance, if somebody on the focus group is a paid lobbyist for a you know a national organization, you know, just take things into consideration with it.

Um I also think the walking conversation tour shouldn't be moved up to like an absolutely essential thing.

We're talking about sense of place, right?

I don't need to be so close to this.

There we go.

Um, and so sense of place, you gotta walk, you gotta walk the landscape.

Yeah, you gotta walk.

Everybody's gotta walk the landscape.

The consultants need to walk the landscape.

So those engagement methods, I think should be really moved up to the top part.

Like it's not as not optional.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I'm I'm all I'm I'm definitely all for survey assuming like we when we did our uh landmark survey, I think that we received like I mean, we got almost a 300 comp responses, which some people are like that's not a lot, but actually in the world of surveys, it's a decent amount.

Um and then the walking, the walking conversation tour, um, yeah, I think that when we were looking at that, it would be like, oh, it'd be great if we could try to incorporate that somehow into preservation month because we do walking tours.

Honestly, it's just being able to see if we can like how like finding yeah, like who would who would do it, how would it run, how would we, and so that's why we have it as like I mean optional, but I think that like the the hope, the the desire is that like those two are methods that we would use.

Yeah, so I think it yeah, it's important to move those two.

Yeah, up yeah.

So Sarah, I think that's an outstanding idea to have the proposed neighborhood focused groups.

And I know in our neighborhood in Scannes, South Central Association and Neighbors, which is Bonton and South Tracy South Black combined at our annual meeting about five weeks ago, people brought up oh, yeah, the NCOD and other things related to it or at top of mind on our list.

So I know that when we have our next steering committee meeting, which is a week from tomorrow night, I will canvas because I don't think I need to do it.

I'd love to spread the wealth around, but there'd be for sure another person or maybe two that would be interested in taking this on, and I think you will find that cuts across other neighborhoods in.

So bravo to that.

And I think it just sets people up for success to get those conversations rolling.

And the shall we say the walking conversations or say walking tours.

I know frankly, I'll just say that when I organized walking tours last summer in the Bontan for the five commissioners to look at you know what should zoning be, R A, R B or R C and yeah, that was a different issue, but still similar.

It was great to get the commissioners out there.

They were talking to us.

They were talking with each other because we did it in a two-two-one format with the commission.

And it worked really well.

So definitely go for it.

And I'm sure all of us will be behind you a hundred percent to get that done.

Thank you.

Okay.

Actually, I want to just make sure you said you have to leave at eight.

Um we can have one online.

Okay, because I was worried that we were gonna lose a quorum.

So okay.

Well, no, Danielle has to leave at eight.

And so I was worried that we were going to lose a quorum.

And then that would make it so that the motion would not be so but we're good because we have we can use one person online.

But but um just but since we do try to kind of like maybe we'll um if it we because there will be kind of more of a discussion point uh during the motion.

So um maybe let's get take some public comment and then we can kind of like work through those uh like using these discussion topics for if you have any amendments or um added things.

Does that sound good?

Just so we yeah.

You want to move to public comment now?

Yeah.

Can I ask one more?

Yeah, oh for sure.

Um who are the key stakeholder or like who are the stakeholders when you say design community?

What do you so we have a design profession uh design professional group that meets once a month that we a lot of times bring this kind of stuff, this kind of stuff to um yeah, does uh so um and just a variety of different like architects, developers, engineers, and usually whenever these kind of projects like we did the same thing with the local Lambert project, is that we'll bring um this to one of their monthly meetings uh to gather input to let them know so that they can provide input, things like that.

Mike comes to those two.

I see.

Yeah, you can come to them.

They're open.

Yeah, so it's okay.

It's just like a virtual meeting that um community development runs with the they just call the design professional meeting, and it's a variety, yeah, different.

Um yeah, you could be if you email me and want to be part of that, I can email you to the direct person and they can add you to the list.

Okay.

Uh quick question on the uh for those community stakeholder will those meetings be public, will the results be made public?

Was there like I'm just wondering because tying into the landmark local landmark program I right in assuming that the um design guidelines we're looking at for NCOD are going to apply to local landmark designations as well, right?

That's the intent.

Well, that's something we're still kind of be learning about and working out with this.

Yes, this is all gonna affect people in the NCOD neighborhood groups in the NCD now.

I'm just wondering, is there an avenue?

And maybe it's not a direct participation in those meetings, but to be able to see them to view that like how does that get out to the public, the those meetings is or is there a plan for that?

Yeah, I mean, we'll be doing updates to Page Pam, and then um, as we're getting like uh I mean, am I understanding just like how those outside of the NCOD are uh hearing about this project and how it relates to the landmark project?

I'm just wondering how those discussions with the focus groups get integrated.

Oh not just into the project, but how that gets out to the public.

Well, I think I mean anything from the communicating it through like the community engagement memorandum, putting it out on Engage Bozeman, doing updates to you all.

Um also having, you know, like the staff will be communicating between both consultants of like what are kind of the themes that we are hearing between the two.

Okay.

I think my and I know we're gonna move to public comment and we're running short on time, but I mean we get we can extend it.

Yeah.

Um my only concern was um being in the community development group or the design professional group going through the UDC.

I mean the UDC went on for a good year before it got put on hold for a year and came back for a year, and it I'm in the bubble that knew what was going on.

And so seeing all of a sudden everybody was like, we don't know about all this stuff, all this stuff is new, and yeah, some of us were like, this has been out there for a year.

Yeah.

But obviously, it wasn't reaching people, and I don't want to have that happen here.

I think that's a valid concern, and um that's something that you know, with any of these projects.

I mean, we've dealt with that with the local landmark project.

Like that was supposed to be a year and a half long project, and that's now upwards of three years.

So it's learning to hear, I mean, we want to ensure that we're hearing from the community, and if um the and getting those numbers and of like seeing what the um numbers of those engaged are, if we find that we have to pivot and extend a little bit, then we have to evaluate that with the Lakota group and things like that.

But I think that that's why with our April um presentation our April community engagement, you know, not confining it to just that week and doing all of these different kinds of methods to be able, and this part will be more about the education, it won't be more about like here's the technical components of the draft language, here's the education about what is the NCOD?

What does what you know what is historic preservation?

What are the Secretary of Interior Standards?

What are the things that you find that are the important stuff that like are the not, you know, I keep calling it like what are the non-negotiables of like that you don't want to um uh that you don't want to see be changed, like what you know, some it's as much as like you know, no vinyl windows in the historic districts or anything like that.

I mean, so those are the kind of things that we would want to hear, and then being able to educate our route to that.

So that first round of uh community engagement will be trying to reach that as much as we can.

But I think we will have to, you know, continue to evaluate and see um yeah, where where we're getting the input and if we need to expand it.

Yeah, if I if I can just add to that, I think we learned a lot of lessons with the UDC project about keeping things on people's radar, making sure that the broader public, not just those inside the bubble, are aware of the work that the city is doing.

Um and so we're hoping that we'll be able to apply those lessons in improving our community engagement with this project.

And we're really grateful to have the Lakota group involved to help us keep that moving forward as we go.

Um certainly we don't want to plan for something to get paused.

That's not an ideal outcome.

Um, but if we get to the what we hope is the end of this project and we just discover that we need more engagement and more public notice, public comment, um, that's something we'll consider when we get there.

The upshot is a lot of people are paying attention now.

So yeah, exactly.

We also understand that there's some burnout that goes into this too.

Um, understanding that the public has been very engaged for the last three years on the UGC project and um might need a chance to breathe a little bit before launching into this, but we'll try to find the right balance.

This is such a happier time.

Engagement, where we're not you know demanding everybody's evenings every week of the the next year, um, but still providing enough information and and engagement opportunities as we go.

I mean, that's one of the cool things, right?

This is a proactive thing, which is great.

Can I just make a couple comments before I yeah, yeah, okay.

Um so just in looking through this, um, a couple things that stuck out, like so I was looking through the project seeks to update the guidelines to achieve the following goals.

The one about addressing Bozeman's community character, local conditions, and priorities.

Um I think we really need to shore up that language a little bit, address that's like consider, right?

We know like what a hot word that is consider, right?

And so like is it preserving, is it uplifting?

Is it right?

I just think that that needs to be tightened up.

Um then, you know, maybe some quantities as far as with the methods, like how many meetings, how much, right?

Just some Yeah, we have on the final path, like it talks about a little bit of like the um how do you evaluate the success?

And so we're saying like a thousand visits of our website or engaging with at least a hundred people.

We don't necessarily want to like pinpoint us to being like, we need to have six meetings, right?

Because it's going to it we want this to kind of be dynamic because we want to see what is going to be um the uh targeting engagement numbers instead.

Yeah, yeah, great.

That's awesome.

Um, and then just something for us to consider, it might be like on a future meeting, is like what happens between like now and when the NCOD gets adopted, right?

As far as um like kind of interim zoning stuff.

Right.

So just something that we may want to formally consider.

What's the point?

So are you just saying this like how do we apply the guidelines now between now and when the final?

Because I mean it seems like there's a little bit of this wild west period until this gets established.

So we're gonna still be applying them as we have been applying.

I mean, have they been written and everything?

I mean, it's kind of the same thing with like when we've done the UDC is it's like with the if you come under the old zoning and you follow that, that's what you head into, and that's kind of the same way as it will be applied now until it gets adopted.

But another reason why we just like you know need to keep it moving.

Um I think those are like my big yeah, those are my big things.

But yeah, address definitely seems on the same campus, like really tighten it up.

Yeah, so thanks you all.

Yeah, um yes, okay.

Yeah, do you want um say like I want to extend it maybe to like 815?

Yeah, motion or just uh you just say I extend the meeting till they're gonna extend the meeting till 815.

Okay.

Okay.

Do you guys want to does anyone have any other?

I mean, you can ask me questions afterward too, but maybe we'll try to do public comment.

Cool.

All right, does does Jim still have a does Jim have a question?

Jim, your hands up.

Did you have a question?

You're muted.

You're muted.

You're muted, Jim.

Okay, sorry, my my bad.

I had my question there about the neighborhood focus group.

Okay, so I'm set.

Thank you.

Great.

Public comment.

Okay, Daniel Cardi, Bozo and Residents, just some quick thoughts.

Uh residents who live in the NCOD are key stakeholders.

And I think we are the primary stakeholder since what happens will affect us the most.

I think the concern about paid lobbyists, whether they be uh locally paid or nationally paid, um, and certainly paid out of state real estate investment companies who are probably gonna weigh in big.

I think we need to be very, very careful that their input is um noted and um maybe minimized because they have no interest in Bozeman other than money.

Um I'm all for walking tours.

Um certainly when the Lakota group is here, and I would encourage that a commissioner uh go on every walking tour and possibly board members as well, so that we can all see the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Umline surveys, I think those are useful.

However, there are definitely problems.

The question is always who designs the questions, who writes the questions, who orders the questions, and whether the questions are check boxes and open-ended, and who summarizes and interprets open-ended questions.

Certainly look Lakota group has experience.

Um whether they can do any statistical analyses of any of these um types of surveys would be interesting, uh, not only for sample sizes, but putting measures of reliable reliability on different answers.

And certainly all raw data should be available to the public.

Um whatever form is organized, but certainly the public deserves the right to the raw data.

There may be some creative statisticians out there who might want to do supplementary analysis to whatever the city and the Lakota group do.

Thank you.

Uh-oh, someone's watching.

Marcia Cavany, Bothman resident.

Speaking for myself now, comments um about the engagement.

Um, and also to the Lakota group.

I really liked a lot of their ideas.

And I know they're still listening.

So thank you for that.

And all of your time here, um, you guys on the board.

So I um have some comments about the engagement.

I think the surveys also offered some value, and I would say just add because of the whole statistical analysis, I would recommend just adding a space for comments after each and every question.

So it helps offset accidental bias and also gives the person an opportunity to explain what they mean by their answer if it doesn't quite fit the question.

I think the walking tours are essential especially for the Lakota group, for commissioners, for the planning staff, for board members, and for the public.

I really like the neighborhood focus group.

I agree that they're the especially the NCOD neighborhoods are the main stakeholders I would say not to allow paid lobbyists to have input on the neighborhood focus group certainly it's just there doesn't seem to be an that um doesn't seem to be necessary when they can offer comments in other avenues like this stage you know at and at the mic so I would say disallow that.

Let me see other things the community stakeholders that was interesting to me to hear about the design board because I did participate with UDC for about three years and that was kind of new to me.

So I didn't see them listed as a key partner on this document that you had tonight to read.

And so I'm wondering what other stakeholders are going to be involved that are not on that document that I might have no idea about and I agree with um what was said about these stakeholders or focus group meetings just somehow getting to the public so we know that they're happening and I would recommend video recordings that someone could go back and and watch and learn from at least public notice maybe on the engagement site.

And I think finally all the engagements or most of them or a good portion of them should include this conversation about required versus just educational opportunities for someone developing in the NCOD area to me that's where like the main problem lies and so we need to I love the idea of red means it's necessary and blue or whatever the colors were but to color code what has to be done versus what you can just consider.

Thank you.

Is there any online public comment?

Yes we have Amy Hoytzma Hi Amy Hoytzma I am the president of the Northeast Neighborhood Association and I really appreciate your presentation.

Where needs to be revised for all the reasons that you've heard tonight.

But the idea of limiting it to the neighborhoods that are within the NCOD I feel is problematic and I appreciate limiting the size of I mean a focus group is only helpful if it's manageable small enough but um a lot of us who live within the NCOD it's because we bought our house like 30 years ago you know Bozeman has become really unaffordable for a lot of people and so there are we're going to be missing um people who a care about the you know historic Bozeman or original boats and um an expertise um if if we exclude those kind of people from the NCOD and we have to admit that the NCOD is is a is an arbitrary I think it was set on the population the borders of of Bozeman in like 1957 or something.

So it's kind of an arbitrary delineation anyway so I would I would love I would love it if if that um how that focus group gets created were revisited and um to make sure we include people who have some have something to say and and have a stake and care even if they don't live within the NCOD.

Thank you very much.

We have a we have uh Zero Osman Hi Zara Osman again um I live on the west side of town um uh also an ink representative for the Valley Unit Neighborhood Association but I'm speaking on my own behalf um regarding public engagement great discussion and um I would like to just point out some um successful and not so successful ways to do public engagement um and the experiences I've had for various city projects for example when someone is um is summarizing is is taking you know weeks and maybe even months of public engagement and then there is maybe a couple of pages in a document that says that is titled what we heard and that's all summarized summarizing that much public comment especially about something that is going to generate as much public comment as this probably will

For example, when someone is is summarizing, is taking you know weeks and maybe even months of public engagement.

And then there is maybe a couple of pages in a document that says that is titled.

What we heard, and it's all summarized.

Summarizing that much public comment, especially about something that is going to generate as much public comment as this probably will require some analysis.

And if there is going to be a point where you want to summarize public comment, if there is a link or somewhere where people could see the analysis, could see kind of the um all of the of the public comment.

And what that would require is recording, taking notes.

Having a walking tour is wonderful.

Sometimes there are multiple conversations going on at the same time, and there can be um and there may not be someone recording all of that information, and it might be really important information.

So I would like as a public uh as a member of the public, I would love to see some um what is going to be the strategy for how these comments will be recorded.

Uh will there be somebody taking notes?

Will there be actually you know video recording?

How is that going to happen?

And then again, I understand you have to summarize at some point, but um just seeing like a little bubble that says people care.

You know, like I I'm I I'm being that that's a hyperbole, but I I'm just saying that to illustrate the point that you can take some really rich comments and and um water it down and dilute it um with a summary.

Thank you very much.

No other public comment.

Okay.

Um so for at least the motion and discussion.

Uh what I'm kind of hearing is that there probably are a few amendments rather than just being like, here I recommend approval of the NCOD design guidelines as they're written.

Um I've taken a couple of the comments, but um Matt usually it's like you make you know the motion, someone seconds and then discussion and then vote on it.

Um but let's maybe hear a little bit more about what the potential amendments could be because then you could we could kind of state them, list them out, and then um someone can make a motion for that and uh vote on that.

How's that sound?

So we'll can make a motion based on like what are the suggested edits you want to do to this.

So like the ones that I'm hearing so far that at least Danielle pose are you know making a so that survey and walking tour should not be optional, maybe moving that up from the um Yeah, where it says consider different additional comments, you know.

That's the one I heard from that, as well as like tighten the word address.

Those are kind of like the more tangible things that are in there.

So it's like do you want to um uh have those be um parts of the amendment?

Um do you have any other things that you want to suggest within this document so that then we can present it to the city commission for final adoption?

I appreciate Amy Hoytzma's comment about community members outside the NCOD.

Yeah, I think that would so would I say I want to amend this to include that?

Or is that like kind of more in my suggestion procedurally would be to make the motion to recommend approval of the plan?

Get a second that opens it for discussion, and then you can amend the motion.

You can have the discussion and see if you've got a majority of folks who agree with a certain amendment, and then you would move to amend the original emotion and vote on that.

What if there's more than one amendment?

Would it be all in that one that one discussion point or would it ever be?

It could be.

Yep.

You could you could have all of the discussion first after you've moved the original motion.

Um then you'd make a motion to amend with and please clarify for us so we can write down exactly what you'd like us to update.

Um so you'd move to amend the motion with like points one through three, for example.

Yeah, you can amendments.

Real quick extend the meeting until 8 30.

Good call.

Can we talk about what we want to do first?

You can do it about it after the motion.

Sorry.

I know.

Well, that's what I was trying to think of, but she knows more of the actual process than I usually making a motion and seconding it and just opens it up for conversation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll make the motion.

I second.

Well, you need to you need to read the read the read the motion.

Oh, oh I moved to recommend approval of the NCOD guidelines update community engagement plan to the city commission.

I second motion.

Oh I seconded a motion.

Okay.

Now it's open for discussion.

Okay.

So now we would say, okay, now I would say the amendment I would propose is to include community members outside of the NCOD in the focus group.

Uh yeah.

So can I make a suggestion?

And I actually ask a question on that.

Um is it is it the intent to have more than one meeting with a focus group?

And as it's written, it would be pulled from uh ink members and COD.

Yes.

Um would it be possible to add one focus group meeting with that's open to any representative from all the ink neighborhoods?

So I think that would just be like at ink meetings.

We would do presentations about this to gather input for them so we would make sure that that we would get a um that on the agenda at an ink meeting.

Um then uh I think that could be the best way to be able to do that.

Is like just presenting at an ink meeting.

Yeah, if I if I meant the the intent of the like NCOD neighborhood focus group was to specifically call out those folks who do live within the NCOD for some focused conversations, not necessarily to say we're not also going to have focused conversations with a much broader audience of the city.

Right.

Yeah, and I mean you've got a whole public outreach laid out that's going out to the broader public.

Right.

And I appreciate you've got focus groups for the people right in the NCOD because they're more directly affected.

Um but it I'm just trying to and some of these questions are just me trying to clarify because I I I totally appreciate having the um NCOD inc folks there.

What I think is really powerful as an outreach tool is all the people in those inner neighborhood committees are plugged into their neighborhood and for dissemination of information, it's a great way to get stuff out.

So I think that could be as simple as like ink is not listed as just an external um the neighbor key partner that just adding them in there and then that the make we would make sure that like at and they meet once a month.

I think that we would get on the agenda and present the NCOD design guidelines to get their input.

Okay.

So maybe listing Yep.

And then I do want to make a note is that we do have identified design professional development community on there.

That was something that was um, so that one's cover.

And then uh general public is not like we're not just gonna be here talking to people that only are in the confines of the NCOD.

I mean, what we did with the local Landmark program is that it's like, yeah, our historic preservation program is specifically like or has been the bulk of it's the NCOD, but we were doing engagement events on the west side of town.

We were doing um we were we were getting the word out there to not just be in confines in that boundary.

So that is still the intent.

And I think to just to clarify process, you don't need to make your motion to amend right off the bat.

You can have discussion and figure out if folks agree or disagree and then move to you don't have to know it all.

Yeah, you can just say it's been like, oh, like would people be supportive if we be in like let's add ink to the list of key partners?

And then people can respond.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay, I would suggest an amendment to add ink to the list of key partners.

As part of our edits.

Yes.

Or as part of our amendments.

I second.

Okay.

Um then we can also talk about the survey that Danielle brought up, the survey.

So that would be um amending the survey to be.

Well, I'm sorry, I'm getting tired.

I'm just trying to I don't know.

Are you just asking where it's like so we have the list on page this isn't page, this isn't numbered one, two.

Okay.

On that page underneath uh methods, um, it just talks about um methods of engagement.

You know, it just says over the course of the project, it may make sense to consider different additional engagement methods, such as online survey or questionnaire and walking conversation tours.

You'd be as simple as you just saying, like, I want to make that amendment where those are moved up to the methods used to engage the community in this effort will include the following.

Could I make a suggestion?

Um if we're gonna make sure to do a walking tour.

Maybe have that in the early part of the engagement before any of the drafting of the first draft happens.

Because I think it's education for both the Lakota group and the public.

Yeah.

But they're gonna identify a lot of the pain points on that walking tour.

Yeah.

Cool.

I think that was the intent of when we were thinking about that.

So far, I've heard amendment potential amendment one would be to include inc as in the list of stakeholders.

Potential amendment two, which I think I haven't heard discussion of is to make the survey a required tool that we will use versus something we might think about.

That's correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then would amendment, I do I think that's a good idea, Allison, to have the is that an amendment to have it in the beginning of the engagement process.

No, I mean, if anything, like uh what we would do is be changing where it's like we could say that the actions are that like in the timeline that that's included, so that what I'm thinking about this was just like adding ink as a stakehold as a key partner.

Okay, well, then we're gonna like list them as somewhere in here of like making a presentation to them.

I don't know where, but then and then the same thing with like actually community engagement in the spring, you know, saying the action would be a like walk like a walking tour.

And I think that's something we could discuss with Lakota group too.

Yeah.

Like, does it make sense to do some walking tours as part of their visit in April?

Yeah.

But you don't have to speci specify that like you need to do a walking tour at this time and everything.

It's just like I'm here, it's like add walking tours to not just optional, okay.

We're going to then decide figuring out with the Lakota group when that is the best time.

But the intent is that it would be the first round of community engagement, not the draft round of the engagement.

So I like that suggestion we could add the actions in the timeline spring 2026 along with the consultant in-person visit to conduct commun community engagement opportunities, including neighborhood walks or conversation, however, we want to title that, but list it specifically as an action in that part of the timeline.

And you don't necessarily have to give me like the actual language, it's just like yeah, you don't you don't have to do an amendment saying like I'd say that this needs to be house verbat like verbatim and everything just being like we want to see walking tours and the community engagement for the project phase and time the project phase of community engagement in spring 2026.

And the only other thing I was thinking about was that survey results about publishing them to the public.

And if we could yeah, so where I think that could be added is um when we do engagement wrap-up.

Um how we show what you heard from members of the public and how in public input has influenced the pan, we are saying like community engagement memorandum in there.

We could also write like raw data of community engagement findings.

Yes.

And I I think that is also something we can work with Lakota group, and it doesn't need to, I don't think it needs to be specifically called out as an amendment to the plan.

But I think that's something that we could commit to tonight and say yes, we'll work with them and we will make sure that that community engagement memorandum is not just a one-page summary, but also including and their lists and the data and everything that backs it up.

And since they're listening, you know, they're gonna take this kind of the stuff into account also.

So yeah, so maybe we don't even have to necessarily say that as far, but we'll just make sure that raw data is part of the community engagement memorandum.

And then what about um language for how that survey gets structured to include some of the comments about you know having extra space for um additional input?

Yeah, I think it would like that.

Um I think they have you know we have uh communications team here who has um a lot of expertise and knowledge in how surveys are formed, and then also the Lakota group has an engagement community engagement specialist.

So I think it'll just be working with both of them of how to be framing these uh questions, what are some of the um uh how is the how are the questions formed to be able to ensure that like we get um good sort of feedback and stuff so but um I think uh we can rely on that on those expertise um to ensure that the surveys laid out um well and then making sure that at least after them there are like point places to fill out, which that also was part of the um the survey that we did for the local LMR program, pretty much after every single one of them there was like a place that you could fill out um a comment.

So that's a pretty like I mean at least for these ones, it's gonna kind of a standard unless it's just literally like a yes or a very direct uh question, but um allowing for uh written input.

Are there specific pages for our social media already set up for this?

So that's the engage boseman page, which is the project, but then we also have a city, uh the city has a Facebook page, it has an Instagram.

Um we they vet them so that they live do they what are they vetted the people that participate?

What do you mean?

Live within the district.

You know, like to get in a survey.

They say do you live?

Oh, there's always kind of like a demographic question after uh within that survey.

Yes.

There's always yeah, there's always we have demographic um questions in those surveys, yes.

So we're like, yeah, one of them could be like do you live in the NCOD?

Yes.

Yeah, no, like you don't do you live in the NCOD?

No.

But we still want to hear from people who live outside of the NCOD, right?

So yeah.

Any other amendments?

Do we did we localize?

So I'm hearing the two amendments I'm having is adding ink as a key extern as an external partner and then adding walking tour and um or adding survey and walking tours as not as optional just as the listed methods, and then ensuring that walking tours is added as a commun within the action within the action of the community engagement project project phase timeline.

That's what I'm hearing.

Those three.

Yes.

So at that point someone can just say, I make a what is it?

Like I make a motion to amend those items one through three.

And then someone seconds, and then you can take a vote.

We'll make a motion to amend these three items uh to the desire guidelines.

Second?

Okay.

You can pull the board.

Uh no, Trenton calls the word.

Uh move of course.

Say I.

I.

Uh second or wiseman.

I.

Member Webster.

Have we had the full discussion now on including all the stakeholders, or we passed that?

I'm just trying to remember where we're at there.

We were yes.

Yes.

He was out of the room.

Oh.

Were you out of the room?

It's possible I was.

I was out just a minute ago.

Okay.

We we talked about yeah, we talked about adding ink as a stakeholder.

Now we're just um making a motion.

Yeah.

So now if you just say unless you had anything else out of the discussion, but he's just pulling the vote right now to approve the recommendation.

Because we're still discussing this really.

I mean, there's still things that could be added, molded, obviously with uh ink this discussions and whatnot.

It's not like we're shutting this down that this is the final guidelines for the NCOD.

No, this is the same.

No, this is just the communication.

Just for the community engagement.

Yeah, okay.

All right.

Aye.

Member Holly.

Aye.

Uh and Member Wilson.

I great.

Okay.

That was just a motion to amend.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

So now we need discussion of the amended motion and a vote on that.

I have a question for clarification.

A couple.

In the beginning uh pages it says level of community engagement, inform consultant involved.

And then there's a little table down below that.

Do I take that to mean that the city basically is committing to the involved level of community engagement?

For that little bit of a there are several instances talking about work sessions, meetings, and public hearings.

Public hearings at this board is a new thing for us.

What is that going to entail?

When we bring an action item in front of you to be able to have public comment to basically this same process.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

That's all.

Okay.

Any other discussion or you can just then someone ready to vote.

If you're ready to vote, he can just pull the.

I want to make sure that Jim had a chance to weigh in.

If you if there was anything else you wanted to add to the discussion.

Oh, not at the moment.

I mean, maybe there will be in a month.

But anyway, hey, it's moving along well.

Great.

Mover Wilson.

I.

Secondary course.

I.

Oh, Member Webster.

Jim.

Member Holly.

Aye.

Member Wiseman.

Aye.

Great.

Okay.

Awesome.

So just quick next steps.

And oh yeah, so you all know.

Or even like a few.

Yeah.

Okay.

So next steps and Homer.

So yeah, this uh community engagement plan will be going in front of the city commission on March 10th for adoption.

So we'll be making a presentation in front of them.

And then we'll be putting it on the engage Bozeman page, all of that kind of stuff.

And then as we progress with like actually solidifying final engagement details, that will all be communicated to you as well as posted on the Engage Bozeman website.

So our next meeting is March 31st to accommodate and that we will be meeting uh the meeting will focus on the local landmark project.

So just in two.

You all have some homework for the April mean.

Because your April means going to be a work session with a Lakota group.

Please review the existing guidelines and be ready to share your thoughts on the content.

So we're kind of some of the questions.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is doing the project and who needs to apply them.

What works?

What's not clear?

What's missing?

And then April will be the kickoff of community engagement on the design guidelines with the Lakota group.

Sorry.

Too quick.

Oh yeah, write your homework down.

Okay, now I had something else, and now I'm trying to find it because it seems to have vanished on me.

Are you looking just for the agenda, Jim?

Okay, no, no, no.

No, I found it.

This this was kind of an FYI, and maybe I should have mentioned it before we took the vote.

Sorry, I'm just a little tired.

It's two hours later here where I'm at, so I'm starting to fade.

But um of the things that I wanted to bring up, this is just something to put on the agenda for next time, although maybe it's tied into this.

Well, it is tied into this discussion.

And um that is an item that many citizens have been asking that, and this is a specific item that the height allowed in the B3 zoning district downtown be reverted to 70 feet from the 90 feet granted in the unified development code update that went into effect on February 1st.

And several public comments have been submitted since that time, along with a petition that I know contains over 300 signatures in support of the return to 70 feet.

And I'll shorten up greatly here what I was going to say because of the lateness of the hour.

So believe me, I don't want to give a monologue here either.

So I'll make this just as quick as I can to give the highlights so you'll see why I'm just suggesting and encouraging us to just put this on the agenda for the next meeting, March 31st to have a discussion.

And uh that is members of the public have argued the return to 70 feet is to protect the viewshed of our several surrounding mountain ranges for the enjoyment of all downtown.

Others argue for the preservation of the character of our historic downtown, which itself will be potentially harmed by taller buildings built in the so-called halo that's around the main street historic district, while still others beg us not to give away the extra development potential without extracting some public good like cash in lieu of affordable housing, increased pressure for parking and overall traffic concerns are still another.

So all of these are valid arguments from my perspective and the perspective that in um from others that have weighed in here.

And again, rather than keep going, there are a lot of you know good things here, and I think um there's some good public comment that can come out of this too.

And I would just ask that we have this as a discussion item.

I'm not asking for a vote or the merits or any of that now, because that's not that's not appropriate.

That's not board protocol, but just to have this conversation for the agenda the next time around because where it winds up going is that and given that we've got the consultants like the Lakota group, and we're looking at the NCOD and the landmark, it just seems almost uh a little crazy that we've got this 90-foot height thing in place before we've even had the uh final discussions on the N COD and the landmark.

So again, where this winds up, and I'm just getting skipping over the middle here and going right to the end so I can wrap this up for you guys.

Um, let's see, let's go back.

Uh just gotta find so okay.

So what we'd be looking at discussing is possibly, and again, this is advisory, we're not making policy, and we know that.

But um one of the things to discuss then is to look at discussing an interim zoning ordinance which would give the downtown urban renewal district and the downtown business improvement district, and I've been to a couple of those meetings, and it's interesting because there are some concerned people there that just want to flesh out the discussion more, and I think they'd like input from our board um to decide how to handle these issues of increased parking demand and congestion.

If discussed would say a favorable outcome from us a month from now, again, the proposal would be for us to consider writing a letter as a board to the city commission in support of enacting an interim zoning ordinance that prohibits the demolition and new applications for new developments over 30,000 square feet within the N COD until the new historic preservation code, local landmark program, and updated uh design guidelines for the NCOD are adopted.

And I'll just end it there and say this is just for discussion next time, because it's obviously we're not going to get into it now, and there's probably going to be some spirited discussion there in the future.

So just asking for consideration to put that on the agenda for next month's meeting.

And I know there'd be a lot of people out there in the public, the public engagement that would be interested in seeing that.

So I bring that to the rest of the board for your consideration.

Thank you.

Jim, this is Rebecca.

And I I think we'll we'll city staff will have to check with the city attorney before we put that on the board for the historic preservation advisory board.

Um put that on the agenda.

I mean, um I think there's just a little bit that we need to clarify since that was a commission decision and since zoning decisions are typically something that goes to the community development board as the statutory body that oversees zoning recommendations.

So we'll just have to double check before we can add that to the agenda for next month.

Sure, and I understand that Rebecca too, and and certainly so so noted.

And we would also hope though that as looking at you know our original charter and what we're here for to really consider, at least having a discussion at the board level.

I I mean I would say if something happens in the letters not written to the commission or whatever, that's gee, I would hope that we could at least have a discussion so that we kind of know how we feel about some of these things because actually this really is uh you know a big cornerstone to things like the NCOD and the landmark.

So just respectfully asking for consideration for nothing else to at least have a discussion.

And uh this was actually something I was getting at earlier with the Lakota group, as you guys may have seen, that um, you know, in the old days we used to be able to discuss these things, and I do feel that some of those discussions have been perhaps shut down prematurely.

Even if we can't discuss policy, we can still as a board really be true to our charter and talk historic preservation and what that means to the city of Bozeman.

So I'll I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

All right.

Thanks, Jim.

Uh meeting is adjourned.

Thanks, Lakota Group.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Goodbye.

Yes.