Um earlier.

So I think there's a lot of either time you do it.

We would say that we're going to be here.

Yeah.

I don't think that's what we're doing.

Yeah.

No, that's pretty much it.

Oh no.

I don't know if online.

So it's not just a point.

So it's all that I would suggest.

Do you want this one?

Okay.

Good evening, and welcome to the June tenth meeting in the sustainability advisory board.

Before we begin, I'd like to explain the various ways to participate in tonight's meeting.

First, you can join us here in person in the commission room, or you can join us remotely by going to Bozeman.net and clicking on the meetings tab where you'll find the agenda for this meeting.

Click on the link on the agenda page to join.

You can provide public comment on an agenda item by using the raise your hand feature.

We take public comment in the room first, then move online.

Lastly, this board has decided to refer to one another on a first name basis for ease of communication.

With that, I call the June 10th meeting of the Sustainability Advisory Board to order.

I guess can you get the gamble?

Thank you.

Natalie, are there any changes to the agenda?

There are due to a transportation delay.

We are short one person to vote on the minutes, so I would suggest that we move the minutes till after our FYI discussion item at the end of the meeting.

Great.

Are there any disclosures board members would like to make on tonight's agenda?

All right.

Well, we'll skip over the minutes in that case.

Anyone on the board would like to share?

Sure.

Yeah, I would mention I mentioned a bit ago Northwestern Energy's integrated resource plan.

That plan has been filed at the public service commission, which is accepting comments until July 28th on that plan, and there will be some public meetings hosted by the public service commission that have not been announced yet.

But in considerations, they've kind of held those in different communities.

So there could be one in Bozeman if they choose to do so.

Great.

Thank you.

Now I'll ask if there's any public comment on any non-agenda items in person or online.

Okay, well, we can move on to the main agenda item in that case.

So the work session on Green Power Program lead community agreement with Northwestern Energy, and that is presented by Natalie Meyer.

All right, good evening, members of the board.

Thank you for being here tonight.

And I yeah, appreciate everyone's interest in this program over the last few years.

This project is a long time in the making.

It's a partnership with our colleagues over in Missoula County in the city of Missoula and with Northwestern Energy.

I've been involved with this project since the beginning, but really want to acknowledge all the other leaders that have been involved from Missoula at the staff level and the commission level, and also our former mayor Cunningham for his direct and involved with involvement with this effort over the years to make it possible.

And we'll get into all of those details, but tonight we'll be talking specifically about one of the steps in the program in the process called the lead community agreement.

So for today's agenda, we're going to talk about the big picture, why establish a green power program, the guiding principles negotiated with the utility, the timeline and process, where we've been, where we are now, and where we're going.

We'll talk a little bit about the impact of approving the lead community agreement and future city commission steps.

And I'll just pause there.

Does that sound right for everyone here?

Okay, and this is a work session.

And so if you have like a burning question, you can interrupt, but chances are there's something on the slide deck, and we can save QA for the end.

So the big picture, the green power program was referenced in our climate plan as one of the key strategies to reach 100% clean electricity.

And this is especially in consideration of the limited options we have in Montana to access clean energy, renewable energy opportunities.

We have a really nice net energy metering program for rooftop solar that's capped at 50 kilowatts.

This is fantastic for residential if you have your own home.

If you have good roof access or yard access, can afford to install solar.

But if you're a renter or don't have some of those features on your property, you can't do it.

If you're a commercial business, 50 kilowatts may not be enough.

There may be opportunities for behind the meter systems like we have at the public safety center, but those are pretty narrow circumstances where that can really work for you.

So again, net energy metering, critical, but not enough.

We don't have enabling legislation for community solar, which is another avenue that you might see in other states.

There's a few examples among co-ops in Montana, but we don't have access to community solar right now.

And I should recognize that the climate plan calls for both community solar and the green power program.

So they're not mutually exclusive by any means.

Some of the other options that you may have heard about community choice aggregation, they're just not enabled by our legislature in Montana.

So this is an opportunity where we can work with our utility to file a rate and enable this opportunity.

So again, a green power program is just an option for customers of regulated utilities to buy power from newly developed renewable energy sources through a special rate or tariff on their utility bills.

And I should reference that really it's been commercial businesses that have led the development of these types of programs.

They exist in a lot of different states.

It's not a new concept, but of course, new to Montana.

So the green represents states with approved tariffs.

The hashtags represent states that have some approved tariffs and additional ones coming online.

The green represents kind of a quasi green tariff, and then the numbers, of course, the number of tariffs in each state.

You might notice that in the Northeast and in California, there is no green tariffs, and that is because they have community choice aggregation, which is a different avenue enabled by state legislatures.

And I should recognize that this graphic came from the Clean Energy Buyers Association, and it was recently modified by the U.S.

EPA Green Power Program Partnership.

So some of those guiding principles that we initially negotiated with our utility is to develop a new utility scale renewable energy project in Montana, known as additionality.

With not without our participation, this wouldn't happen kind of thing.

The program rates should be in contract terms and eligibility requirements, should be as accessible and attractive to as many customers as possible.

We wanted to expand opportunities beyond commercial customers, but also even just providing an avenue for commercial customers is unique.

It's not easily done in Montana.

And number three, the program does not negatively impact non-participating customers.

And you might hear the utility refer to this as no cost shifting.

The second guiding principle is again this new utility scale renewable energy, likely a wind or solar resource, potentially paired with energy storage located in Montana.

The size will be capped at 50 megawatts for the initial phase of the program.

And the resource will be owned and operated and maintained by Northwestern Energy.

And just to put it into context, around 50 megawatts, I referenced that the net metering cap was 50 kilowatts.

50 megawatts is not huge for a utility scale project, but much bigger than anything we have in our community today.

If you had 50 megawatts of solar, that would cover 220 acres or about 35% of MSU's land area.

And it would offset about 17% of Bozeman's total electricity usage.

Accessible and attractive.

All local governments, commercial and industrial customers within the general services rate classes one and two can participate for the depreciable life of the project.

And we say that to emphasize that it's not just Missoula and Bozeman that can participate, it's anyone in Northwestern Energy's service territory that chooses to submit a subscription agreement.

Residents and participating jurisdictions where the local government decides to enable residential subscriptions, have the ability to provide for short-term subscriptions.

In this case, they would be one year long subscriptions.

And of course, participation is completely voluntary.

It is going to be entirely dependent on the results of a competitive RFP and the market, the market where the solar arrays or when the renewable project is located.

So it's going to be made up of fixed costs, the capital costs, interconnection, insurance, basically the revenue requirement of the utility that is spread out over the depreciable life of the project, which is likely to be 25 years.

And then that's going to be offset by a floating credit.

And this is a market-based credit, determined by the what's called the locational marginal price of the project location.

There will also be a capacity credit for that resource.

So two parts to a credit, a lot of parts to the costs, and that will be the net subscription rate.

And that fixed cost will have to be updated every year through the PSC filing, but probably wouldn't fluctuate a whole lot.

We need to acknowledge right now that with the expiration of the clean energy tax credits, the impact of tariffs and supply chains, it could have significant impacts on the program economics today.

But we have a process ahead of us, so we are comfortable moving forward with that process and trying to get to that RFP stage.

No impact to non-participating customers, so all project costs will be incorporated into the subscription rate, and the program design ensures that the program costs are fully recouped from program subscribers.

Some of the additional noteworthy provisions, the lead community agreement that we're focused on today.

It defines the process for PSC approval.

It talks about how we'll recruit commercial and industrial customers, and how we will issue the RFP for the resource.

The agreement talks about an opportunity to participate through the depreciable life of the project, with the option to extend that being important because once you've paid for the project, you want to be able to continue to participate and get that credit.

And it also specifies that the renewable energy certificates are retired on behalf of participants.

So this is just a snapshot of the timeline of where we have been.

A lot of these conversations actually started with the development of the climate plan back in 2019.

We developed a provisional goal of 100% net clean electricity.

About the same time, the Public Service Commission directed Northwestern to explore a green tariff and to reexamine their E plus Green program.

So there were collaborative discussions started at that point.

There was a settlement that was reached that really just resulted in Northwestern reducing the price of their E plus Green Renewable Energy Certificate program.

But that was not our desired outcome to actually establish a green tariff, which would be considered more of a bundled renewable energy certificate where you get the power and the certificate.

Then in June of 2020, Missoula signed a memorandum of understanding with Northwestern Energy, and in that it included a reference to developing a tariff.

We adopted the climate plan in 2020 in establishing that 100% net clean electricity goal.

Then in February of 2021, we entered into a formal agreement with Missoula County and the City of Missoula, Bozeman and actually Helena at the time to formalize our collaboration around this project and to really share project costs, which has resulted in a really excellent partnership, and of course, the shared costs of developing this effort.

And then in January of 2024, we came to the Sustainability Board and the Bozeman City Commission and adopted the non-binding term sheet that laid out some of these basic principles.

So I'm happy to say that we largely have agreement on the final documents, and that's why we're back because we're ready to advance to adoption of the lead community agreement.

So what's in this agreement?

It outlines the roles and responsibilities for the lead communities and Northwestern to bring the Green Power Program to the Public Service Commission, including RFP design and the specifics for the process.

Each community would sign its own lead community agreement, and then the lead communities would jointly file the tariff or the rate structure with the public service commission.

So where we're going, still a process ahead.

So we're starting this process of adopting the lead community agreement, then the next step would be to file the tariff, likely in the fall.

And nobody can predict exactly how long that could take.

And I think Nick probably knows better than anyone what that window could look like, but likely within a year, but might not be totally settled within a year.

Then we move if we everyone agrees to any changes that the public service commission implements in the tariff documents.

Then we could proceed with the process of collecting, going out to commercial customers and collecting non-binding notices of interest from entities that might want to participate.

And this would just include their anticipated subscription level, so how much energy do they want to subscribe to, and then we would use that information to go back and design the RFP.

And again, we would design this RFP with Northwestern and participate in the selection of the resource.

Then once we get the RFP results back, select the top preferred bids, translate that into a revenue requirement or a subscription cost, then we would go back to those commercial customers that submitted a notice of interest and say, are you interested based on this price?

And if so, then you would submit a binding subscription agreement.

And that's the point in which we would be fully obligated.

Once Northwestern enters into a contract agreement to develop the project and is like substantially underway, there would be a compliance filing with the PSC to approve the exact costs.

Okay.

So I really just talked through all those steps, but just to quickly review, I know it's repetitive, but it is kind of a lot of information.

So we're we're filing, we would after this, we would file at the PSC, then it would be the phase of notice of interest and recruiting potential subscribers, releasing the RFP, getting those results back, approving a subscription agreement, and then a compliance filing with the public service commission.

And so to kind of break that down in terms of actual city commitments, these are the four primary documents.

And you know, I don't know if I need to read through each line, but essentially the commitments occur at the lead community agreement.

We're essentially agreeing to join Northwestern at the PSC in filing this tariff, potentially paying for expert witnesses or legal representation if we choose.

And there is a provision in there that if we go to issue the RF, develop the RFP, issue it, get the results back, and then decide not to move forward, the lead communities would be responsible for those costs of the RFP.

And that gets back to this principle of no cost shifting to non-participating customers.

However, if we do move forward and the project advances, then those costs would be spread out among all the subscribers.

There's no real commitment other than if we chose to pursue legal representation at the notice of interest, no real commitment other than potentially paying for some subscriber engagement.

I think a lot of that will be one-on-one conversations, but there could be some advertising costs potentially.

And we would have a new electricity members during the adoption process of the notice of uh or of the um term sheet.

So there was a lot of discussion about is 50 the 50 megawatt cap sufficient.

No, it's not sufficient.

It's the hopefully the first of many projects, but also keep in mind that that 50 megawatt cap also limits our subscriber risk.

And I honestly don't know that I would be comfortable recommending anything bigger at this point.

And why are the communities responsible for the RFP obligations?

Again, no cost shifting.

Is the contract duration too long?

It is a long contract duration, but that helps spread out the costs over time and make it just much more manageable.

So I'm comfortable with the contract duration and what will happen to market prices over time.

If anyone tells you that they know the answer, they're definitely lying.

But generally speaking, what we've monitored through the Western EIM has been positive and promising.

And so we will be monitoring those changing markets, but generally over time we expect market prices to increase with retirements of legacy um coal plants and ever-growing demand for for energy.

We really just think that there will only be more demand for renewable energy.

And why pay a premium for renewable energy?

And I mean, this is a good question in the most simplistic form.

Yes, on a per kilowatt hour basis, renewable energy is typically cheaper compared to a coal plant or a gas-fired plant.

But we are talking about building a new project.

This is above and beyond the supply needs of Northwestern Energy to serve our request to advance our goals to 100% net clean electricity.

And I would challenge anyone to identify a utility that's offering 100% net or 100% clean energy for a really affordable price.

So we are advancing this goal, and this is part of our commitment.

Some of the comments we received and we're happy to say we were able to address.

Somebody observed that we really need to define the schedules for ancillary services.

This is the support services for transmission that are required at the federal level through an open access tariff.

And we did define the schedules that would be applicable above and beyond it in the tariff agreement.

And in terms of including exit or transferability provisions, there are opportunities to exit, but it really entails paying for your full subscription amount or transferring it to another Northwestern energy customer.

And we did include an option for energy storage.

With that, just want to see if I had any other important notes here.

But again, we're talking about a utility scale project.

And it is definitely ambitious and not something that's been done in this state.

So we're we're moving forward with caution, but and being very mindful of the the off-ramps.

And I think we have we're getting very close to presenting the documents to this board and to the um the city commission, and just wanted to have this initial conversation with the sustainability board for kind of initial comments and and questions.

And I don't know.

Did Kendra have an opportunity to join?

Awesome.

Oh, I can.

I can't see the screen, but I'm I'm online.

Awesome.

Thank you, Kendra.

So should we open up for questions?

Public comment, and then okay.

Thanks, Natalie.

Um great presentation and exciting to hear that green power program is moving along.

I know that you've put a lot of work into this.

I have a few questions.

I'll try not to get too into the weeds.

Um I also wanted to, I guess, make a comment about what you said at the end about the cost of clean energy.

I think that at least from my perspective, I would just put out there that I think that under our utility that we have in Montana and a lot of the structures we have, it does feel like this is the best avenue we have for adding clean energy to the mix for Bozeman's needs.

I wouldn't go as far as to say we can't cost effectively have clean energy and have it be cheaper.

So I just want to put that out there.

Yeah.

And I know there are some utilities that are trying to do it in what I would think is a lot more kind of effectively than maybe we're seeing our utility in Montana and their priorities.

So, yeah, full fully agreed, not executed perfectly.

Yeah, but um lots of opportunities for um clean energy.

Um I was curious about when you're talking about the cost of um like how they're gonna figure out the um bill credit or uh bill cost for this.

I guess one is that gonna be a separate bill that um residential customers or whoever customers would pay on top of the normal customer or the normal um bill that they pay.

Um, I guess I'm also have a follow-up question about the uh the market price and how that's determined.

Yeah, thank you.

Um so for a residential customer, if that option is enabled by the local government, and that's a necessity because the local government is essentially backstopping that subscription to enable the short-term nature of it.

Um it would show up on their regular utility bill as a credit, a cost and a credit for for that specific tariff.

So they wouldn't have to do anything above and beyond, they wouldn't be a separate bill or anything like that.

Mm-hmm.

And that cool.

And you you talked about the the market price.

Um do you have uh an idea of is this is it a predetermined like every year they set what the rate is based on kind of uh an average of market price, or is it gonna be more real time?

Um, or is that kind of still being figured out?

Um it would it would be um based on it would be a real-time market price using the 15 minute and five minute locational marginal price put into this really complicated calculation.

Um, but the the forecasted credit based on the last 30 months would be the basis for the next 30 days.

So that credit would change every 30 days, uh then at the end of the year there would be a compliance filing to reconcile any surplus or shortfall.

Okay, very interesting.

Yeah.

Um I maybe I have a couple more questions, but I can let others jump in too.

Um, can I just ask a follow-up question to your question?

Yeah, please.

The market rate calculation.

Um, is that truly like the open market, like nationally, or I thought you said it was it was calculated based on their costs of the the building the project and maintaining the project?

Um so the cost side of the equation is based on the actual capital cost to operate the facility.

The value of that energy generated is the credit side, and it's based on market prices.

And so what the discussion has been that it would be based on what what's called the Western Energy Imbalance Market.

And that would be the basis for the credit.

And within that Western EIM, there's nodes, and so each generation facility has its own node and its own market price.

So we were surveying what's called bid C to kind of represent all of those nodes, but then also kind of looking at variability within the specific nodes across that region.

The complexity comes as markets in the West are shifting.

And Northwestern could be moving to the Southwest power pool.

There could be a day ahead market.

So some of those dynamics are changing, and it is not resolved and probably won't be until after this merger is settled.

So not what we anticipated.

And when we started this process, the Western EIM was new, and so we were scared about that.

But then after monitoring it, it felt okay.

But overall we we want Northwestern to be in the most advantageous market available to them.

So we we're just going to have to watch that piece of it.

I was gonna ask a follow-up about the market where where the markets are going, but it sounds like you are following that, and that's part of the conversation.

So it seems like that.

If you have any comments or suggestions, I'm certainly not a um the subject matter expert.

A lot of thoughts.

Um some are more in the weeds than we probably need to get into, but could be I guess I would say it would it might be beneficial to have some I I don't know, it's hard to hard to work with Northwestern and get um a guarantee, but um definitely the the more you can anticipate um what market is gonna be determining the the price and what market Northwestern is gonna be.

Um I think that there could be a lot of um different outcomes, um, and we uh in my day job are very following very closely what Northwestern is going to do with that decision as well.

Um so that's tricky, but I don't know if I have any big insights.

Um could you explain what you meant about the the recs, like who gets to count those recs or is someone counting the recs?

What was the um where do those go?

The the recs renewable energy certificates will be retired um on behalf of the customers, and so they can be assigned on like a uh prorated to the customer based on their subscription level.

Okay, so the customer, the customer gets the recs, and we we took we had a lot of conversations about making sure that the recs would not be counted towards Northwestern's portfolio.

Okay, great.

I think that's that's that's it for now.

Okay.

Um Kristen or Emma, do either of you have any thoughts or questions?

I had a really quick question.

Um, how do you anticipate like 50 megawatts between three communities?

How do you anticipate splitting that up and um?

Um, yeah, thank you.

Just reminded me that I forgot that point.

Um, so um, it is 50 megawatts, and it's going to be available to everybody in Northwestern Energy's service territory.

Um, the communities, the lead communities will inherently be able to subscribe to the equivalent of our municipal loads.

Um, so I think that's the only amount that we can reserve for us.

That's only like, let's see, I don't want to get this wrong because we just updated it today.

Um if we wanted to replace our entire municipal load 100%, which we don't need to do 100%, um, that would be like 2.57 megawatts.

Missoula, the city of Missoula is bigger.

Um Missoula County is smaller.

So um it really depends on the commercial, the majority of this program will be taken up by commercial customers.

So it really depends on where those subscribers are located.

So we certainly have an interest in doing recruitment within our communities to try to enroll people to make sure that we um have ample opportunity for Bozeman commercial customers to participate.

Um I can see questions.

Let me just finish this quick statement because I think the acting even one would be interesting.

Yes, me too.

Um, so right now Northwestern's portfolio is approximately 60% renewable energy or um non-carbon sources.

So if we're trying to fill the gap of 40% of from carbon sources, um the average from an average wind farm, we would need 36 megawatts to offset Bozeman's um electricity use.

With the initial project at 50 megawatts, if we were able to subscribe in Bozeman to 10 megawatts, that would bring our renewable energy target from 60% to 70%.

So where I say 10 megawatts, that represents like 40% of Bozeman's commercial load.

So that would be ambitious, but if we're not aiming for that, then it may not be worth it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was going to say I have one customer.

Commercial customer, just like that.

Okay, I think absolutely.

You guys go ahead.

I just wanted to I guess I'm curious if y'all have talked at all about so it sounds like you're looking to fill the portion of Bozeman's energy, like that 40% because of Northwestern's larger breakdown.

Has there been any discussion around what happens if their pie changes if they go from 60% carbon free to say 50 or 40 percent?

Is that yeah?

I mean, I think that will be part of the discussion, but the bottom line is our ability to subscribe directly is really going to be limited to that 2.57 megawatts.

So the what we could do is subscribe to the two point two and a half and make one and a half available to residential customers.

Um, but no matter how that pie changes over time, hopefully it improves.

Um, our ability as a municipality isn't going to change very much.

Um but we obviously want as many commercial customers to participate as possible.

Definitely.

I think there is a high potential for the next couple years to see that pie change kind of based on the decisions that have happened the last couple years.

Um which is a little unfortunate, but yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm curious what happens if commercial um industries don't subscribe.

Um and there's a gap between what the city of Missoula and County Missoula and then Bozeman, you know, subscribes our municipal and county loads.

Um are we on the hook for paying for the energy, the additional energy up to the 50 megawatts, or so if there's a big gap between the notices of interest and subscription agreements, the project may not be able to move forward.

If there's a modest gap, we we would anticipate that there would be different project sizes bid into the pool and we could perhaps modulate between the top preferred bids or negotiate down or up um by a few megawatts.

But if that is a if there's a vast gap, then the project doesn't go forward.

So before we even build the project, is when we're going out and getting sort of commitments to ideally get up to that 50 megawatts?

Yeah.

Okay, okay.

Um and then just to follow up, um, I hate to say that our municipal load is 2.57 megawatts, and we could potentially allow um residential customers to subscribe a portion of that.

I think you said like maybe one or 1.5 megawatts.

Right.

Um, is there any mechanism for us to allow or for us as a city to subscribe for more than the 2.57 megawatts that we use, knowing that there'll be some level of base residential interest?

No.

And is that because of our risk tolerance, or is that because of what Northwestern run into?

Um it's it's because um Northwestern is not going to allow a customer to subscribe to more energy than they are currently using, and that that's sort of a I think uh uh just a planning philosophy that they apply kind of across the board in their facility planning.

They don't like oversize a transformer type of thing.

Um so there is a limitation there.

Um, and again, the municipality would ultimately be backstopping those subscriptions if all of them decide not to pay their bill.

So it does increase the risk um to the larger the subscription.

Are you saying that Northwestern doesn't want to build additional renewables because the residential users are already subscribed to their um?

No, no, that's not what I meant to say.

Um I'm saying that they um won't allow any customers to subscribe to a larger share than their current load.

Right, okay, and so the city couldn't subscribe to a larger the municipality of Bozeman, you know what I'm trying to say.

Um we can't as a as a city subscribe to more than we have because um because we are one individual like rate payer in ourselves, um, and so if we wanted to have a larger amount to then give to residential customers, we couldn't.

I get it.

I'm I'm saying it even worse than you did, but I'm tracking now.

Um is there any mechanism for um a group of residences to like create an LLC?

Um would that essentially be community solar, or or could a group of residences become a commercial subscriber?

I can't think of a mechanism.

But it's it's something we could contemplate if there's a mechanism there.

Typically the rate or the tariff that you have, the residential rate is not flexible.

There's a reason that the residential rate is higher than say a commercial rate because the cost of service is higher.

Um so I I guess I would say, and maybe Kesley can help me with this, that multifamily housing is defined as a commercial building.

So potentially if there's if it's not like there's multiple meters, if there's an aggregated meter, um there's a universe where like an HOA could become a subscriber and collect um, yeah, allow their residents to participate, uh would just say that it would be termed 25 years in the female.

Yes.

I'm not entirely sure that I wouldn't think of the comment wouldn't be separated.

Not typically, huh?

Um, right, right.

Yeah, it could be a unique circumstance, I think primarily where a residential building owner would be comfortable entering into a 25-year agreement.

Um I should say that in the um the commercial subscription agreement, there is a provision that references that it is a 15-year agreement, and this was based on feedback we got from some commercial customers that they're not allowed to sign agreements that are beyond 15 years, but at that effectively it is still a 25-year agreement because at 15 years you have to either pay the exit fee or auto uh renew for another five years.

So that's 20, 20 years.

Um right, and the exact term will won't be defined until the project is selected and the specific depreciable life for that resource is identified.

I'm throwing out 25 years as a common metric for solar.

Okay.

Yeah, sounds like there's a lot that we can think about when if we're in the um promoting and getting subscribers level if there's um yeah, I'm thinking about like Bozeman Co-housing, would they potentially qualify?

Are there other yeah, multifamily or um semi-commercial-esque residences that that could also be considered?

Kendra, do you have anything online?

I I do.

I have many, many questions.

Um I apologize, I'm I missed we landed late, so I missed the first few minutes.

Um gosh, now I'm on the screen.

Okay, can you hear me okay first?

I just want to make sure.

Yes, we can hear you.

Okay, great.

Okay.

Um I guess I guess when we're talking, I think most of my questions are around sort of the the RFP and how we're looking at this reverse.

So the 50 megawatts, and you're talking that's a nameplate capacity.

So when we're talking about like 2.7 megawatts used by the city, does that mean at peak use we're using 2.7 megawatts or do we have the quantity sort of in in megawatt hours?

I'm just confused about hearing this as like a nameplate rather than a quantity.

Yeah, uh great great question.

I don't have the megawatt hours in front of me, but um that 2.5 is based on a wind facility with a um capacity factor of 0.48.

You mean if it like, for example, a single wind turbine at a nameplate 2.5 megawatt over the course of a year at the 48% capacity factor would meet the entirety of the needs of the city of Bozeman.

Um municipal operations.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Okay.

Okay.

Um in terms of this RFP.

So what is I guess I'm I'm curious to hear a lot more about the RFP.

When does it go out and how is RFP managed?

Is this something Northwestern is managing?

Will it be in collaboration with with communities?

Um, you know, lead time for you've put out an RFP unless there's sort of some project developers that have things in the pipeline and have sort of, you know, are already looking at interconnection agreements and that sort of thing.

Best case you're still looking at a couple of years out to to build a project.

So when would, and I I apologize with this, but when would this project expect it to come online?

Um I definitely can't answer that last part because of what you referenced, that it really depends on where the project is in the um interconnection queue and permitting.

And um we we really won't know that for a while.

Um in terms of the RFP process, um the agreement is that we would develop the communities would develop the RFP um with Northwestern through their RFP administrator, they have a third party develop it.

Um there are some provisions if that if they if Northwestern themselves bids into the project, there will be a third party monitor as well.

Um there are some provisions around timeline, but I would say like the issuance period is not defined at this point, so that will be part of the RFP development process.

I think there's a lot of undefined pieces there, um, and it's just a little a little early.

Okay.

So what we're potentially looking at like three to five years out from this project coming online.

And in my another question, I have is so Northwestern is allowed to bid in one of their own projects to the RFP if they have something they want to propose.

If they want to pay for a third-party monitor.

Yeah.

When you say third-party monitor, do you mean like an independent entity that would review their bids rather than Northwestern being involved in the bid review?

Um that there would be a monitor to ensure that there's firewalls between the different oh like like the like there's like Net Northwestern would have to bid in from like a development wing rather than as a regulated utility.

Um I didn't fully hear the last part, but I think that's correct.

Could you repeat the last part you said?

Okay.

Rather they have to sort of use a different arm of their company to bid it into the RFP rather than using the their main utility wing.

And I and this is common, a lot of utilities do this.

They sort of have a development wing that bids into these sorts of RFPs.

Um yes, that is correct.

And if you have any suggestions on how to make that process more robust, um we we are certainly interested in that.

We were certainly concerned about that that possibility.

Yeah, I'll think about that.

I have it.

Ben involved as the third party.

So I may have some input there for that.

Yeah.

And Kendra, another thing I'll add is um in the last interim session, there was a great deal of focus on this topic of a third-party monitor.

And maybe maybe Nick would have some insights, but there were some changes to state law to um try to strengthen the RFP process.

Yeah, if I am remembering right, they just adopted the rules this week potentially.

But I'm not completely clear how this kind of RFP would fit into all that.

Um would be interested.

Yeah, Nick, if you could point me in the direction of the new rules, I assume the publicly available documents we can all look at.

And I could probably find it too, Nick, so you don't have to do more homework, but um, I have it on hand, so I could I could find that extremely quickly and share it.

Yeah, okay.

I would love to just take a read through and learn more about how the process might work.

And um, Nick, to your point of whether or not those rules would be applicable under this type of solicitation, that was one of our concerns too.

So we included um our own language and also said, you know, state law prevails.

So if there's sort of the double layer, was that it for questions from you, Kendra for now?

I think that that's it for now.

I think this is super interesting.

So I am very much looking forward to learning more about how the process is going to work.

Great.

Well, the only question I have, everybody else has a lot of knowledge on this topic, which I really appreciate.

It's been good um learning for me today.

But I'm just curious, you mentioned Helena was one of the partner cities and that they dropped out.

Could you just explain the reasoning behind that?

Sure.

I i I think um that there's been some attrition in this process just by the sheer length of of time.

Um, and so they had an initial agreement, I think it might have been two years, and then they um just decided not to continue moving forward, and some of the the dynamics on their commission definitely change it, changed and they were became more sort of inward-looking.

Um, so that but we're still going to you know invite them to participate, and you know, there could be interest, but I I wouldn't blame anyone from for dropping out of a six-year process.

Great, that's helpful.

One other thing I was just gonna add is that looking at Northwest Energy's site, it's actually 55% of our electric generation comes from carbon-free right now.

So it seems like that percentage has changed.

So it's it's always a little tricky.

You have to go to their Edison Electric Institute document.

And that what they're referring to there is their system wide um portfolio, which includes South Dakota.

Well, this one's it says Montana.

Is for the company wide.

Okay.

So I'm just yeah, that was interesting that they might like to your question.

They might have already changed the pie.

I can chime in on that.

So they update that every year based on the previous year.

Delivered energy um in October 2024.

Yellowstone County Generating station came online.

Um, so is that 24, 25?

I think 24.

So they just updated for the previous year, which includes now, I believe YCGS.

Um, it does not include their recent acquisition of more shares of the Coal Strip plant, which will be reflected in the next year's update.

And it doesn't include some changing, they're losing some of their biggest win contract at the end of this year.

So there's a few things that are kind of changing the total delivered clean energy.

That's really helpful.

So just kind of interesting, certainly, yeah.

And that percentage has absolutely fluctuated.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Does anybody else have any other questions?

Yeah.

Have we seen any indication from Helena that they might be excited about jumping back in or any other counties or municipalities once once this is kind of firmed up?

I think that's to be determined.

After so many kind of false starts, we have not done a great deal of engagement.

I do know that some of the uh adjacent ski resorts have continued to express interest, and um there's certain commercial customers that have checked in periodically, um, but we are restarting those those conversations now that we have documents in hand.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Um I'm also curious about the likelihood of energy storage.

I mean, I I think if you you've said that that's like something to discuss, and um, I know that that would add a substantial cost to any project.

So can you just talk through like is that a decision that the lead communities would make um whether or not to add energy storage, or is that something Northwestern decides?

And um how do we grapple with that?

I I think we are allowing for it through the RFP process.

And to your point, yes, it's we'll make the project more expensive, but it will improve the capacity credit, and potentially allow for um more operat it will allow us to perform better in the market, potentially, but that's a question mark.

Um, and really it's it will just have to compete with um projects that don't include storage, so it will be an economic decision, I think.

Um, but I you know, admittedly, I have noted a few examples across the country where um the utility brings the storage to the project.

Yeah, gotcha.

Um okay.

I just have one more question.

Um, I think earlier in your slides I saw something a phrase called lead marketer.

Um what is what does that mean to be a lead marketer?

Um it means that we're responsible for recruiting participants.

It doesn't mean that Northwestern will not, but um ultimately it is our responsibility to recruit participants, and again, um, like after kind of a careful contemplation of how that could play out, we we decided it might be better for the lead communities to um carry that conversation with potential subscribers.

Okay, thanks.

Okay, any other thoughts, comments, questions from the board?

I guess final thought, Natalie.

Thank you for your um stamina.

It's like it's been a marathon, so and guess everyone at the city.

Thank you for um continuing to push this forward.

I know it has been.

It's challenging and new.

So I am grateful for all the work that you've done, and thank you for sharing it with us tonight.

So thank you, Kristen.

I know this isn't your first presentation you had to sit through.

So we see if there's any public comment.

Yeah.

Can we take any public comment on this agenda item?

Hi everyone.

Uh Mark Campanelli.

I'm a Bogert Park neighbor, resident, homeowner with the bank.

Fascinating conversation.

I learned a lot trying to review for this.

So first I want to preface, you know, I am a skeptic at the very heart.

So I want to preface my skepticism of a quick story, uh doing dishes on a windy day like today and a little bit of rain, and um all of a sudden there was an arc flash, and like a sound like lightning, scared the bejesus out of me.

And um it turned out the wind had kind of cut the cross beam of our uh electric line, and they they shorted out, and that was the arc flash.

And um, and I called it in to the power company, and then I went out and looked at the poll and it was smoldering, and I'm like, okay, this this takes it up a little bit of a notch here.

So I called the fire department, they send out a truck, they look down the alley, and they're like, we're gonna wait for the power company, right?

So a guy from Northwestern comes out alone.

He's up there with a fire extinguisher, so you have your fire hazard, you have your electrical hazard, you have a fall hazard.

Um, three hazards, right?

This guy has taken it on solo, went out, thanked them.

Um, and the power eventually came back on.

So obviously my criticisms coming of Northwestern are not indicative of the people who keep the power on.

Um, so a second, um, I pre- I also appreciate the patience to negotiate with utilities.

Uh I worked for a short time at Sun Power, who are now uh bankrupt.

Um, and they really couldn't shake the utility momentum when they were trying to do more disruptive things like battery uh residential battery units and those types of things.

So working with utilities, and I get why.

Um we don't we want reliable power, but it also tends to make everything move, it seems like uh snail space.

Um, so I have devoted a great portion of my life to making PV a cost advantage advantageous reality.

Not with subsidy, but you know, below fossil fuels without subsidy.

It's doable.

Actually, we're there already, I think.

Um I did a postdoc at NREL, which is now National Laboratory of the Rockies, it's been renamed.

Um, and I worked in PV performance measurements so it's much more geeky, not so much working with utilities and the grid, um, but kind of geeky into the devices, but not quite device, it's a physics either.

Anyways, uh I'm currently a partner in Power UQ, which is a software startup that analyzes the uncertainty and long-term generation of PV power plants, um, and having gotten some window into how the power plants we built 15 years ago and 20 years ago are performing.

They assumed this nice linear degradation.

They don't, they tend to drop off a cliff like that.

Um, and people will argue, oh, the new ones don't do that.

Well, it does depend on several things, degradation is one, um, but also how well are you maintaining the plant, and you need to have a cash flow that helps you maintain your plan.

Just like if you don't maintain your furnace, right?

It doesn't last as long.

Um, but there's this saying in the industry after the whole incentive tax credits that just are expiring now.

Um, I'll be gone, you'll be gone.

So that incentivized people like Wells Fargo who can loan money and also have a hell of a profit margin that they want to take away by having a tax credit that got a whole bunch of banks like that to come in and build plants that really they only cared about for about five years.

So those aren't good incentives, those are bad incentives.

And I do worry that municipalities trying to do the right thing can be drawn into the bad incentives, the wrong incentives.

I haven't really researched this whole deal enough to say if there are, but I am just forewarning that that's out there because people have good intentions, just like the incentive tax credits were good and well intentioned.

So yeah, current ones are not necessarily aging well.

Um, you know, you're going with Northwest Energy, who this was discussed, which is great.

They're kind of doubling down on coal.

They built a really expensive gas peaker plant.

Um there are arguments to do combined cycle, you get more efficiency out of that, and then you can use batteries to run the beaker part of it, right?

Um we are so far from that, and then they seem to be open arms to the data centers.

So are we gonna help them build solar to like pick up the new data center to load?

I would hate for that to happen.

Um again, I'm a skeptic.

Um, why does the Northwestern get to the only asset?

Um, the IRP that I think I got that right.

The IRP that they just did was pretty controversial.

I unfortunately missed that meeting.

I hate to admit that, but I did.

Um it was a heavy week of city meetings.

I'm pretty sure that was the case.

I was pretty burnt out, but I did miss that one.

Um you discussed this too, and I had to step out because there was some alarm on the wall, it wasn't a fire alarm, but um I was curious how the merger with Black Hills Corporation will affect this.

Um that's yet one more uncertainty in this big uncertain thing.

Um then um from a personal standpoint.

Meanwhile, Northwestern Energy has not yet approved the so-called meter collar switches for residential.

So that allows you to avoid having to have your installation team install a yet another box on your wall of your garage when you want to install a battery system.

It puts the switch that switches you off the grid onto your battery backup.

And there actually are systems that will just run off the solar if it's sunny out.

Um but usually you have a battery, it puts that switch right in the collar.

Now, Black Hills actually has approved that.

N phase Tesla are two big battery companies that do that.

But the one of the biggest challenges with battery backup in residential is the cost of installing it.

It's just I guess brutal for the installers.

I'm sorry, I see people shaking their heads.

You probably already know this.

But let's get Northwestern to like help us out with that.

It unfortunately helps you switch off of their grid, which is maybe why they don't have it yet.

But uh, and again, I know there's all these regulations with utilities to get through, but you know, they're approved in many, many places, including Black Hills.

So that little southeastern corner of Montana is covered, and I am wrapping it up.

I'm I appreciate your patience.

So, um, but yeah, I I would love to have a battery backup system, especially if I build a new ADU.

Um, I'd love to be able to just switch off the grid and see how long I can go, maybe put a sand battery under the under the garden.

Um but anyways, I'm I'm really getting off topic with my dreaming.

So again, I I realize dreaming is one thing, executing making something realizable at a good cost is another thing.

So I'm a little bit dreaming here.

But one other thing I noticed we took a tour of the new MSU shops, right, which are commercial building, they all have a diesel generator sitting out inside, right?

And it runs periodically, runs every day, make sure it's or whatever, once a week it'll run.

What if and then you go inside and all of their IT systems have guess what?

These little battery backups, the UPS systems.

Well, why not work with commercial to have just a battery backup system?

Um, there actually is a uh visin, I think, is making vanadium zinc uh batteries in uh which are like grid scale batteries in uh where is it?

Columbia, Columbia Falls, I think.

Yeah, that's what I wrote here.

So those are redox flow batteries.

Um anyways, I I feel like I really feel like Northwestern's dropping the ball.

And um, we do live in a tough climate, it's not the best climate for solar.

Um, but we have so we do have the hydro and wind.

Um, but these batteries are really coming on fast, and and I'm I'm worried we're like doing something that's 10 years old right now.

So, and maybe not helping local businesses flourish or residences have more options, that kind of thing.

So, anyways, give me the give me the canes, we'll be off the stage.

I really appreciate you listening and uh thanks for all the work you're doing.

Thank you.

Yeah, do you want to is there?

Do you have any response to any of that or um any other comments?

Anyone else have any other comments after that?

Okay.

Okay.

Well, um wonderful.

So we'll then um move to approve the minutes.

Oh, did you have a comment?

Um maybe just to kind of close it out.

I wanted to um reference that I'm anticipating bringing the um the actual lead community agreement and supporting documents to the board for the next meeting, and at that point we'll um we'll ask the board to um vote to recommend um make a recommendation to the city commission.

So just want to heads up that that's that is coming.

Great.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um would anyone like to approve the minutes from the May 13th meeting?

If so, can please move it to a vote.

I move that we approve the minutes from last meeting.

I second Kesley.

Um, can you please facilitate the vote?

Yes, Jesse.

Kendra?

Would you like to go first?

Uh I.

Kristen.

I think.

Jesse.

I pass.

Excellent.

Okay.

That concludes our agenda uh for the evening.

So with that, the meeting is adjourned.

Just real oh, but I have something.

Sorry, I didn't see it.

Um Natalie was gonna mention something about Gooch Hill.

Do you still want to talk about the sub-area plan?

Oh, I that should have been by FYI, but we both forgot.

Um, yes, if you have just a moment of patience, I think that some folks on this board would be interested.

Um wanted to draw your attention to the engaged Bozeman um web page for as um Commissioner Bodie referenced, the Gooch Hill sub-area plan project.

It's um this really neat sub-area planning process for a 3000-acre um area in the northwest corner of Bozeman that's sort of surrounded by development, and um the city is undertaking a long-range, long-range planning planning effort to sort of master, not master plan the site, but sort of envision what we would like to see happen with with that land.

And there is a upcoming um open house on July 8th, and I I could really see some board members potentially being interested in participating in that conversation.

Um it's really just an opportunity to think about how to master plan storm water and um sewer collection and all of these things that could be done much more efficiently if you think about it on the front end.

So just want to draw that to your attention.

And I'll I'll just chime in and add that um our uh hospital did a really exciting kind of sub-area plan for the land that they own kind of beyond the hospital where all those trails are, and I think there's a lot of concern about what might happen to that um kind of wildlife uh area and and the trail system and having that sub-area plan.

I think um really showed how when we think about and a larger area in in um in a holistic view ahead of time, we can really carve out the the spots that are important to maintain for wildlife and for recreation.

Um, and so yeah, I'm really excited that we're taking this approach with this area and um and curious to see when the community will provide us feedback.

Do you know what time that meeting is?

Because that's our that's um had a feeling?

Um, okay, you can just spend your whole afternoon with us.

Four to six, perfect.

Actually, I have some feedback on that.

I was talking to somebody on the west side about I love how they have so many tr uh trails and set aside parks.

They said they all run north to south because it was easiest for the developers to just follow the the water courses, thank you.

So yeah, something maybe to think about as we develop this other one is making it a little bit more connected left-right.

So thank you.

It sounds like you should come to the target of the things.

That's okay.

That's about to ring in the gavel.

It's a good FYI, so yeah, appreciate it.

Okay, well then with that.

I'll just adjourn the meeting.

Just bang it really hard.

I didn't know what it is.

Uh I think it's kind of it doesn't think I think that's not just a video, I think.

Um, um, I think we're going to be on the other hand.

Is this what it's about?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it is what I think about the other thing.

Yeah, yeah, um, uh, we see um and what I thought was to be about this.

Goodbye.

So I was thinking about it.

And if you did it.

Yeah.

Goodbye.

I me