I don't know how to watch it.

I think what was my question?

I think I thought that which is a finding of this.

I would have to continue to do the discussion.

I don't want to know if that was a time.

Hey Dick, we're at 4 30.

Oh, is it going on?

Um, it's not rightly.

Okay.

Hey Dick, we're at 4 30.

Let's call the meeting to order.

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This is for listening only if you cannot watch the stream channel one ninety or attend in person.

And the total numbers given on the agenda.

Are there any disclosures?

No.

Moving on, any changes to the agenda to come?

I have no changes to the agenda.

I have a question that may or may not count as a change to the agenda.

Um I was gonna ask a qu a clarifying question, and then depending on the answer to that question, I was gonna make a motion.

So is there a time in the agenda that we would have time for that today?

What section would that normally come under?

I think that would be now.

I'm sorry, I think you could ask your question now.

Oh, I could ask it now.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um there's something that's going to be here that you're voting on your system here, is what I think.

I'm just letting folks get settled in before I ask the question.

So um, is anybody from New Highlight View here?

I don't see Beth here, and she might be the best person to ask this question of.

Yeah, I'm not seeing anyone here.

Okay, and maybe you maybe somebody else knows the answer to this question.

So, um, in light of the public comment that we received in advance of this meeting, um I was wondering had the subcommittee that worked on the charter language that was submitted to the study commission.

Um has there been any circling back on on behalf of the INC to the study commission related to charter language is my question.

I personally have not seen anything, um, but I do am aware of um they've asked for staff comments so we've been working on that as well.

Okay, so uh then I would like to make a motion for the inter-neighborhood council to circle back to the study commission in support of their article eight as it's currently being proposed in the draft format.

I second.

I second that.

All in favor?

Hi.

Okay, and just a little uh clarification on I guess what that would look like to am I volunteering the subcommittee who and and um who wrote the original one?

I don't know exactly what that looks like, but I think it'd be important to figure out exactly who's in charge of writing that letter.

I believe the subcommittee in the past was Mark Campanelli of Bogart Park, Beth Boyson of New Highlight You, and Alison Sweeney of Gent before she became commissioner.

So what are your thoughts, Mark?

I think I remember Beth saying she was too busy.

Um so would I be writing the letter?

I mean, we'd have a whole month for this body to review if I wrote something that needed review.

Well, I think their meeting is June 18th, and the follow-up to my thought is a letter, and then someone uh an officer of the INC presenting that as oral comment at their June 18th meeting.

Okay.

Um I'm happy to draft something.

Uh I just need guidance on who to share that with then.

You can share um the letter with me, and I'm happy to pass it along to our um city clerk who's the staff liaison for the study commission.

But um I think if you guys are coming to a formal rec like formal letter as a group and want to discuss that letter and approving it, um, it'd be best to just as a group submit it to the study commission email.

What was the last sentence you said?

Ask group.

I I can't read your lips from this angle.

Sorry.

Um so uh I don't even remember what I was saying.

Um I mean I guess when I made the motion, I was thinking as simply just the interneighborhood council supports the study commission's uh draft language language.

Keep it simple.

Yeah, that's yeah, I don't know that it has to be any more.

I did go to the last where they discussed this for the last time, and it's they said we didn't plan on making any big changes, but honestly, I have not looked at like the latest draft, I think, since then.

So part of what I'll do is just review the current language, make sure it doesn't look like it's changed since last we reviewed it, and then make a simple letter that just says we support the ink supports the draft language as is.

Does that sound good to you, Chair?

Certainly.

Is that um is the gist of the new charter language similar to what was in the charter now, or I haven't looked at the any revisions they've made?

Um yes, I actually there they added one section that is just more generally discussed.

Sorry, I'm trying to remember all this stuff now on the spot.

Uh is more generally discusses uh community engagement.

If I'm getting that right, which I which I think is a good move, um, because I do think the neighborhood council is only one aspect of community engagement, and because it's not a perfect tool for community engagement, I think it often gets like they want to throw the baby out with the bath water, is how I term it, whereas like to reach the 55% of renters or students say that are very, very nomadic, right?

They should use different tools, and I think the new charter language says that that they should come up with new tools to reach different types of groups.

And that that's how I like again, I'm putting my own color onto it, but um, I have a thought.

Since we have a light schedule, would it be valuable to bring up Article 8 language in the draft version?

Um, since maybe some people are not clear on that, um, my perspective is that, um, in the current charter, section 406 deals with neighborhood associations and the interneighborhoods council, and through their drafting process, it was once referred to as Article 7, and now it's ultimately being uh presented as Article 8.

And my understanding is that upon listening to feedback from the public, that the study commission actually added additional language to make that section more robust, and so um I think uh to let the study commission know that um we appreciate that neighborhood associations are still in it, interneighborhood council is still in it with the addition of the other robust language.

I think it would just be great for that to be on the public record that we as a council appreciate their efforts, um, and just speaking for myself, I actually recommended that they remove a small section, which I felt was superfluous, and the key parts in there could just be moved to other sections.

It wasn't actually the neighborhood section.

Um, but I did read the part about the neighborhoods and had no like huge alarm bells going off, but I'd be happy to review.

And just to clarify, like I think this discussion is fine where we're talking about like, hey, we want to talk about this.

Um, but if you guys want to actually like review and discuss what would go into a letter, we should probably notice that in a future meeting.

So the next meeting you you have you can have this on the agenda as an item that you guys walk through, you talk about things that you like and things that you dislike, and then you come to a formal kind of like consensus as a group, like this is what we want to move forward with.

So I'll go back to my original motion.

A simple letter that states we support the um section eight draft of their charter language if people still feel good about that based on the discussion that just happened, does anybody not feel comfortable with that?

Well then we'll proceed.

Mark, you'll draft something up, we'll do, and then again, I could share it with the officers through you first.

Yep, and then they can forward it on.

I would like to have a little bit of review if everybody's okay with that.

So I think that's would be good.

So do you want that ready by the 18th?

I think it's most valuable if that letter is submitted in advance of their June 18th meeting, and if um somebody from the INC, preferably an officer was available to show up at that meeting to give public comment orally um as well.

Uh that was my vision, but uh obviously it's up to you guys to decide.

Well, we can certainly do that.

Umily volunteered to go.

Oh, I can go.

Oh.

Her microphone's not on.

She just said she's gonna check her calendar.

Yes, yes, I can.

It's in the evening, correct?

Does anybody know?

I don't know what the time is to come.

It's normally at four at four.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they change from Wednesday to Thursday, so and it's a Thursday next week.

Okay, yeah, right, at four.

Yep, Thursday the eighteenth at four.

I can do that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Emily.

Any other changes to the agenda?

Approval of last month's minutes, I move to approve the minutes from the May 14th, 2026 regular meeting minutes is submitted.

I need somebody to make that motion, right?

I made the motion.

All right, I'll second it.

Any discussion any all those in favor of the approval?

Moving on.

Public comments on non-agenda items falling within the purview and jurisdiction of the board.

This is the time to comment on any non-agenda matter falling within the scope of the neighborhood council.

There will also be time in conjunction with each agenda item for public comment relating to that item that you may only speak once per topic.

Please note the board cannot take action on any item which does not appear on the agenda.

All persons addressing the board should speak in a civil and courteous manner, and members of the audience shall be respectful of others' stating name and place of residence in an audible tone of voice for the record, and limit your comments to three minutes.

Any com any public comments?

Uh Daniel Cardi, Bozeman resident, uh resident of Midtown.

I want to thank the Inc.

for being willing to write a letter to the Study Commission in support of Article 8, which officially is known as role of public engagement and local governance.

Also, I think it would be extremely valuable to have one or more inc officers at the meeting next week.

Typically they do start at four.

There may be a sort of a split schedule that starts at four.

Um, and then the proposed final draft may not um sort of come on the agenda till around five, but please check the city calendar for the study commission.

I think it's incredibly important for Inc.

to be there next week, particularly in light of the Montana Constitution.

Article 2, Section 8 of Participation reads as follows.

The public has the right to expect governmental agencies to afford such reasonable opportunity for citizen participation in the operation of the agencies prior to the final decision as may be provided by law.

That is the key phrase of this um section of the Montana Constitution.

There may be a comment next week.

There's already been written comments suggesting that Article 8 be deleted and that the role of Inc.

be diminished in Article 8.

Um, and there may be very well be public comment next week that suggests Article 8 be deleted or the role of Inc.

be diminished.

So it is incredibly important for this body to have it make its presence known next week at the study commission meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you, Daniel.

Any other public comment?

Good afternoon, members of the Interneighborhood Council.

My name is Joey Morrison.

I serve as the mayor of the city of Bozeman, but I'm here speaking in my own capacity.

Um I understand you received a public comment uh from Mr.

Cardi, who just spoke before me, and I wanted to correct some of the uh information that was being spread uh regarding what I said to the study commission a couple weeks ago.

Uh I have never advocated for the removal for the diminishing of the authority or the role of the inner neighborhood council.

I actually gave a fairly lengthy testimony as to my concerns about the Internet Board Council as it currently exists and the proposals.

Things that I shared with each of you while I sat there as your liaison for two years about how to make the inner neighborhood council more representative of the neighborhoods, how to make it more representative of the community as a whole.

Those are still the concerns that I have today.

Neighbors in your neighborhood associations that do not feel that they can come and say something here, lest they be dragged through next door in social media by folks like Mr.

Cardi.

That being said, that that's to me is the prime injustice that we've been watching through this process.

The way in which the role of neighborhoods is so integral to a city that it needs a deep conversation.

Not just, hey, it's great, we need to make it stronger, and neighborhoods should actually just be running everything.

Which is really the comments that have been submitted to the study commission.

That's a completely fair point of view, and I think that that should absolutely be reckoned with.

I have not watched as the study commission reckon with it in that way, nor have I watched this body reckon with how do we make the neighborhood associations better and stronger and more representative.

Things that I brought up were how to ensure a diverse and representative sampling when you guys are polling to make decisions on behalf of your neighborhoods.

I've lived in four neighborhood associations and I've never ever been polled, asked, had my door knocked by any neighborhood association ever in my time living in this city.

I would sit right next to Beth and Joe Genevieves, right?

That was New Highlight View, where they would say, here's what's happening in New Highlight View, and I would never have a clue what they were talking about.

It was nothing that my neighbors or my friends that lived in the neighborhood were talking about.

And so the entire purpose of why I decided to go give public comment, knowing that I would get nonsense, like what Mr.

Cardi just has alleged, despite using my First Amendment right to come and give comment, to face ridicule, to face bullying, whatever.

You know, that's that's part of this.

I know the job that I have.

But instead to not have that robust conversation of how do we make neighborhoods a representative slice of their constituency that then is a pipeline back and forth from city government to their neighborhoods.

That's not what I've heard I've watched the study commission talk about.

That's not what I've watched this body talk about.

That to me is is what we've missed in this charter review process.

This is a conundrum that every city in Montana is trying to figure out how to make neighborhood associations really special and really, really work.

I think what we have right now is a pretty good system.

And so I've I've been confused by folks saying anyone that wants to keep it the way that it is wants to destroy them or get rid of them.

Does it seem like it's working okay right now?

Um so just wanted to offer a rebuttal in a way that my name has been invoked in in what I said, and I'd encourage you to just watch my comment for yourself to see what my concerns were.

Thank you all.

It's good to see folks and good to see some new neighborhoods popping up over here.

I suppose I would like to ask Joey um why he didn't receive any any notices from the city about any neighborhood association annual meetings.

Are you a renter?

Are those handouts going to the legal owners of the residents?

That's a great question.

I don't know how they get distributed.

Yeah, I don't think we can go door to door, but um I guess the thing to me that I is that it's just, you know, especially New Highlight View.

New Highlight View, we're privileged in that we're fairly small.

Um, same with like Marwin Windley getting through everything.

As like an example, our cat went missing a month ago.

And so my partner and I, who are serial canvassers, we've run campaigns before, we fired every single door in our neighborhood in a weekend.

So it's it's just like those are the things.

Like the bar isn't that high to just go talk to new folks that have moved in the neighborhood.

And that's not the point here, right?

The point of me sharing my experience is that what we have right now is imperfect, and we can strengthen it.

So that to me, the the problem is that there are weaknesses with the inner neighborhood association model that we have right now.

And making it compel the commission to take action does not solve any of those problems.

It does not make them more representative, it does not incentivize new and young people to participate, it does not incentivize renters to participate.

It just gives, it doesn't correct the right deficiency in my mind of what makes the inner neighborhood council the inner neighborhood council.

Thank you, Joey.

Any other public comments?

I feel I would be remiss if I mean this is just one example of we're just one neighborhood association.

I'm representing the Northeast Neighborhood Association.

And since my time living in the neighborhood, I have received newsletters handed to, you know, put on my doorstep by a volunteer who did walk door to door.

At times it would be mailed.

Thankfully, the city of Bozeman pays for postage.

I think maybe one mailing a year, one or two, correct me if I'm wrong.

This past year, we tried something new.

Some people, some new young blood, or younger than me anyway, wanted to do something a little bit different.

And they had a really successful different kind of meeting than we normally have had in the past.

And that brought in new faces, and in fact, now there's a social committee in addition to the other core committee and steering committees.

Um we also communicate with our neighbors through uh an email uh list and are always looking for new ways to engage more people with that.

So um I just wanted to um put that out there.

I'm sure your neighborhoods are doing things too.

Do you mind if I I add something?

So someone about a month or two ago reached out to me about hey, I'm thinking about starting a neighborhood association, and I said, Oh, yeah, no, I'd be happy to talk to you.

A couple months go by, I followed up, and literally well, again, this is anecdotal, this is not a scientific survey.

He said, I just have too many, like, again, I have to be, I'm not sure if he said college kids, renters.

He just said there was there's just people that hadn't laid down roots enough to want to invest the time in a neighborhood association.

And it is a problem, but I just take exception when that issue is held on our shoulders.

Um, I have plenty of college kids.

They change over right next door to me across the street, two door sound.

They're cycling through, it's really hard to get them to participate.

And I I really would hope the city could help us better try to get them to participate.

Um, but we also just have to be realistic.

When I was a grad student, I was really busy, I was doing a lot of other things.

And knowing these people now, I'm happy these people are kind of watching the bigger picture.

So I'm just gonna say that.

I just wanted to jump in here.

We don't traditionally do a back and forth during public comment.

Um, but I also feel like this is ink and ink is a little bit different, but um also wanted to remind that we do have public commentaries online, so it's important to just call for that as well.

Can we revisit this later then?

Um Joey had referred to some comments he made.

Is it possible to share those with the group just so we can watch them?

Yes, for sure.

Thank you.

Are those available now or should we continue?

Okay.

Um, as a member of the public, I'd like to make a comment.

Um, my name is Richard Bacher.

I live in 1470 Boylan Road.

Um, I was quite upset to read the letter that our vice mayor had sent to the study commission, and um actually, I'm I'm quite unnerved of the fact that he is our commission liaison if that is his if that is his um view on citizen involvement.

I uh I know that he ran on citizen involvement, and I would like to give him a chance to talk to us about how citizens can be involved in city government if there's no clearing house like the INC to provide that.

Sorry, just to clarify too, you guys are definitely welcome to share your comments, but I think it's it's best to do that during the um neighborhood updates.

That's where you can kind of share out FYIs and thoughts on different things that you've heard during the meeting.

Yeah, I uh I'm not sure I'm not sure how to proceed here.

I never said not to take away ink.

My letter, um, which I did not bring with me is was really about how do we you know write a constitution and what do we put in the constitution versus um let the, you know, let your your your elected body make the policy on.

So there was um it was really about um making a uh you know dedicating resources to um you know to specifically calling out in our constitution a full-time staff for specific purposes.

Um but it was uh you know, I just I I don't have uh I I believe I said specifically that public engagement is really important, and it's really important that we have ways that the public and neighborhoods participate.

Um it was more about are you gonna are we going to uh determine you know specific staff and their specific roles in a in a charter where that doesn't even, you know, there's no in that draft charter.

There's no police chief, there's no fire chief, there's no there's no other employee other than the city manager and our neighborhoods association um person.

So but um I'm you know uh also as your personally as your commission liaison, I'm here to relate to you the official actions of our commission.

I'd be happy to have a cup of coffee or you know, meet separately, but I feel like you know that was a letter I wrote as a personal citizen, and um I'd be happy to talk individually, but but I I feel a little uncomfortable as your committee commission liaison being up here addressing you guys about that letter.

Well, I think one of the sentences you wrote in there was that it's incumbent on the commission to make decisions, and it almost like forget INC, I've heard this from this person, that person, or whoever you're getting your input from.

How do we get input to you?

Do you want mass emails?

I mean, I I don't understand.

We don't necessarily need to go have coffee.

We can this is a good form to communicate and it and the gist of the letter as I read it, dismissed citizen involvement through a structured system like this.

I think that's a personally, I think that's a misreading of that letter.

Um where I spoke specifically about the need for public engagement and public uh meaningful public engagement.

We take public comment at every meeting.

We take public comment on non-agenda items, and specifically on the agenda, we do notice those things so people know in advance that these discussions are going to happen.

And um, and we don't talk about things that aren't noticed, in part because we want the public to know what we're doing.

All of our phone numbers and emails are on our website.

I you know I feel like uh we we have commission coffees.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

Of course.

I I believe I'm not sure if this is the same letter that um the chair is talking about.

Um there was a letter, I believe signed by you that talked about striking Article 7, which is the role of public engagement in the charter.

So I think that's maybe what you're referring to.

Oh, that's the letter.

That's the only letter I've written to the commission.

Okay.

Mr.

Fisher, I I appreciate you being here.

I've always seen you as a gregarious and generous human being, and I've always appreciated our interactions.

And I I found the letter to be, you know, somebody that enjoys writing to be out of character, interpreted in the same way that this body interpreted as something that felt like a condemnation of this body instead of a celebration, although both language existed within that letter.

And I I just feel like there's a genuine opportunity here for us to continue to trust our relationship that is, I think fundamentally good, without needing to digress into sort of defensive postures about whether or not, you know.

I mean, I my curiosity here was to give you the opportunity to express what you think this role or this body is good for and its future, and then we can just kind of forget the written statement that may have been or may not have been misinterpreted by the public.

And I I would personally appreciate just kind of understanding like what your vision is for this body, so that we don't have to go into the semantics of a letter that you wrote during a certain time that's passed.

And I don't know if that happens right now, but I I think everybody here would really appreciate just on the record like what your vision is for Inc., and how you wish to support it.

I I think we can do this during the commission liaison update.

I'm sorry.

I just have someone who um appreciates Robert's rules, and I know you guys too, so um, yeah, I just wanted to inject that here.

I can pick that up during the commission update.

Are there any comments online?

I am seeing no comments online at the moment.

Any other public comments, then we'll move on to our special presentation, the engagement framework update.

All right.

Thank you all.

I feel like this is kind of a timely conversation.

Um we actually haven't been um like we've been just kind of working on updating our engagement framework sort of separately from the whole study commission thing, but I I can tell that engagement is definitely on everyone's mind.

So I'm really looking forward to everyone's comments today.

Um I do have some questions for you guys to think about um throughout this presentation, and just looking forward to your comments and responses to these.

Um, we are updating our engagement framework, so I wanted to see what you guys um want to see in the updated draft.

Um I just realized too, I haven't introduced myself, so I'm Takami Clark, I'm the communications and engagement manager um at the city, and um, second question that I'll be asking is um thoughts and recommendations on how we can help residents feel more heard.

Um, this is definitely something a trend that I've seen as we've been um opening up our survey and reading through some of the early feedback that we've gotten so far, um, and then improvements that need to be made to the communications and engagement processes.

So just a little bit of background on our engagement program.

Um we've been doing the engagement as a city for years, but not until recently did we really have a dedicated program with staff um working on this effort.

And here on the right, um, this is actually a picture from the year 2000, and they were envisioning Bozeman in the year 2020 and asking residents um to just engage with what the future is gonna look like for the city.

Um I really see the birth of engagement with the start of our neighborhoods program back in 2007.

You guys are are likely really familiar with that.

Um, and it did come about through a similar charter process.

Um, and then citizens have also uh been heavily involved with the city through our boards as well, and boards like this one.

Um in 2018, the city embarked on a strategic planning process.

Um, and one of the recommendations that came out of that plan was the creation of a community engagement plan, and so that um is not necessarily not um like an engagement plan for just like an individual project, but more of an engagement plan for what how the city wants to embark on engagement and do engagement.

In 2021, the City Commission actually adopted an engagement plan through the engaged Bozeman framework.

And in 2022, we launched one of our first engagement projects and our engaged Bozeman platform, which many of you might be familiar with.

So why did we start working on this project?

In 2023, the Montana State Legislature passed MLUPA, which is the Montana Land Use and Planning Act.

This was a huge law that really overhauled land use and set minimum requirements for public participation.

And we are broadly doing what's called for in that law currently, but we still want to update our framework to draw the direct line between our engagement framework and the law and making sure that we're saying, here is how we're in compliance with MLUPA.

So it's it's sort of crystal clear there.

We're also taking this moment to look at our engagement processes to reflect and to improve our program as well.

It felt really weird to me to start a project where we wouldn't update our engagement framework and not engage with the public.

So that was a huge driver into opening up this process.

And we're also using this opportunity to just raise awareness about engaged boseman, about our engagement framework, and about MLUPA and make sure that residents are aware of that law and know how public participation is gonna go in light of that.

Um on the right is a little screenshot of our engaged boseman framework.

If you've never seen it, that's sort of the front page of it.

The framework outlines our overall strategy for our engagement program.

It's got guiding principles in our work, the IAP2 approach, which is the International Association of Public Participation, and that's this organization that helps out a lot of governments and organizations by giving structure to engagement.

So we followed a lot of their approach.

We also take time in this framework to define what engagement is, which is this two-way dialogue between residents and the city.

Also talk about the decision-making timeline and the different points at which engagement can help decision making, and then the level of engagement as well.

We talk about when we do a community engagement versus when we're just communicating about something, the tools and techniques we use, the relationship between community or community engagement and communications, which is really closely tied because you can't do engagement without communications.

But you also engagement is not simply communications and communications is not the same thing as engagement.

And talk about the community engagement life cycle, so what engagement looks like from end to end as well as some next steps for our organization.

And then here on the right is just like a sort of screenshot of a draft engagement plan that we had with BikeFill.

And you might be familiar with templates like this and documents like these.

Of the project, the purpose of community engagement, some key technical terms that we might need to define to the public, partners in this process, the decision making process itself, and at what level we're making different decisions and engaging people with.

Here is a little screenshot on the bottom of our engaged boseman platform.

And this is the website that we use to help facilitate a lot of our engagement.

All of our approved engagement plans end up on these pages that are on the engaged boseman platform.

Now, just a little bit about MLUPA.

MLUPA requires cities to adopt new land use plans and unified development codes.

So these are the codes that guide development in our city.

It sort of requires four main things, or like it falls into four main buckets.

So one of the things that says is cities of a certain size, which Bozeman is one of these cities, must frontload public input on big issue plans or growth plans.

So things like our community plan or even our urban forest management plan.

These are things that we are uh that fall under MWPA that we have to make sure that we are soliciting and doing a good job of public input on.

We also, or this law also asked cities to implement specific housing strategies.

So if you were engaged during the unified development code update, you might have seen like a board that had 14 different strategies on it.

You were given about five different stars and were asked to prioritize which strategy you wanted to have show up in the UDC.

And so through that process, we as a city chose five of those strategies, and that was a requirement of that law.

And then the law also requires that we update development review processes, which we have done, and then that we adopt a land use plan and create a planning commission.

So the community development board is that planning commission.

And then you might have also remembered folks like Chris Saunders was out during the UDC process to do a technical compliance update for the community plan, and that was simply to sort of get the community plan in line with MWPA.

And then in specific regard to public participation, a lot of what it says, this is not an exhaustive list of what the law is, but it sort of falls into these main buckets.

So it asks asks cities to disseminate draft documents.

It has an opportunity or it asks cities to provide an opportunity for written and verbal comments.

It has cities provide public meetings with effective notice, also asks cities to provide electronic communication regarding the engagement process, tell cities to analyze and respond to public comment, also tell cities to document all public participation, and then cities are also required to have their local governing body adopt a public participation plan.

So that is going to be this document that we're working on here.

We have the engaged boson framework, and we're gonna eventually go to commission and have them adopt it with the MWOPA changes.

General timeline of the project.

We've been doing a bunch of engagement.

July, we'll start drafting the update to the framework and post for review, and then August, we hope to return to boards and commission for review and adoption.

Um what our engagement process has looked like.

We've met with staff, we're now meeting with boards and commissions too to hear your guys' feedback on how engagement is working and where you see the improvements.

So we've heard a bunch from staff already.

We're going to boards and commission, and just um trying to get feedback from those folks who are directly using these processes and reviewing these plans and approving them.

And we've been bringing stuff to engagement events as well to help spread the word there.

And the goal has has just been to ensure that we are not asking too much of the public and engaging in this process.

Like we want to try and meet them as much as we can where they are.

So making it easy by having an online survey or showing up at an engagement event where they're already at, to just learn more and give any feedback that they have.

And then we also hosted a webinar to educate on MUPA and have developed a little flyer as well that we've been sharing in various places.

And that's just to raise further awareness about this law.

And below is just a little screenshot we had from that webinar.

Things we're thinking about as we are drafting tiers of engagement.

So one of the things that staff really wanted clarity on was having more clarity around when we're doing a really big push, for example, with something that's MLUPA required, where where we're doing like SR mid-sized push, maybe where we're doing projects that we're doing a lower push on, and having some clarity more clarity around that and what that looks like.

We're also really thinking hard about engagement summaries, responding to public comment and key things, and responding to things that might be outside of our scope.

So comments where people might have feedback that doesn't that is something that the city can't act on, maybe because it's legal or something like that.

But we have been thinking a lot about like one of the things that we have been hearing as we've looked at a lot of the comments that have come through and feedback that we've gotten.

Um you can even see this out on the boards too, is residents are really hungry for a response on the feedback that they're giving, and they really want to see that input reflected somewhere, and if it's not, they want to know why it's not being reflected.

And they we were really trying to think about that, and I'm really curious too what you guys think in terms of how we could do that better.

Um, we're also defining our process um better for how we want to improve engagement plans as well as how we want to offer um training to staff.

One of the things that we've kind of noticed too is that engagement processes can feel really different depending on which staff is leading them, and so establishing some more consistency amongst staff and making sure that they feel comfortable and aware of how to do engagement and um do it well, and then um also in putting some stuff on specific tools and techniques that the community seems to really like.

All right, so here's some questions that I showed early in the presentation for you guys to give your comments on, and then I'll also take at this time.

Like if you guys have just any questions about um the framework itself or questions about this process, I'll answer those before you give your feedback.

Sorry, it's time for questions, right?

Yeah.

Do you mind going back to the history slide?

Yep.

Um I was kind of curious where the super the discussion and decision around the superboard consolidation might play into that.

Maybe you don't know the history, but yeah, is it part of the strategic plan discussions or just was it the separate thing that happened?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't know the history there.

I know it happened like right before I joined the city.

Okay.

I have more, but I'll I'll defer and come back around.

Thank you for that.

I uh I guess my question is regarding um sort of again the opaqueness of we're doing a great job, I think.

Making sure that people are heard, making sure there's avenues for public participation.

If anything, I think we're putting too much energy in that because at the end of the day, the one thing that I've experienced as a resident is that something goes into the city and it feels opaque or it feels like it it's entrenched in its own culture.

And it gets stuck there, it just gets thrown back.

And so I don't really have any recommendations because I'm not in the city to witness where bureaucracy prevents good ideas from getting traction.

But I do know as a resident that you only have to give feedback a few times and not see any change that you might start choosing to golf instead of being active in in civics in the city.

Yeah.

One of the things you just said that I wanted to clarify.

Like, do you and I think you said it, so anyway, one of the things we've been um hearing is like people feel a lot of engagement fatigue.

Is that like, is that part of what you feel and is part of that fatigue because it's like, oh, I'm I'm giving this input, and I'm not seeing it go anywhere.

What energizes um engagement is reciprocity.

You need two polls.

If something comes in, if it's acted upon or if it's engaged in a way, then you'll feel that sort of return of input coming back at you.

Like, hey, I did something.

There was there was some there was some acknowledgement of my participation, and that doesn't deplete the stores of energy that people have.

And so I I think that the city's doing as good of a job as it can.

I mean, I'm scratching my head, like, well, how do you how do you change that?

But it is a significant problem.

We keep trying to find new avenues to pull people in that are just not interested.

And maybe we can start listening to the people that are engaged and and find ways to make them feel heard so that the buy-in continues and the disgruntlement uh reduces.

Thank you.

I'm actually gonna go take some notes while you guys talk.

Okay.

Um I think there's a lot of ways to engage, and I think in if you're new to Bozeman, or if you're not used to engaging in civil discourse, I think it's really hard to get started.

And one of the things I suggested to Emily was if there could be something on the city's homepage that was like engagement, and it had lots of different places you could go, written very conversationally, a lot of links to other spots.

Like here's engage Bozeman.

Here's what it's about.

Here's how you participate.

You have to create an account if you want to make a comment.

Uh, then there's a bullet about public meetings.

You can do them online, you can go in person.

There's always a comment.

So I think it doesn't have to be a lot of information, but it has to be bullets, really spelling out how to engage, because I think a lot of people, they'd like, oh, just go look here on the website, and it's really hard to find things sometimes.

But there was like a very prominent on the website, community engagement or whatever you want to call it, and clicked on that link and it just gave you these opportunities.

I think it just gets people more comfortable and it makes it easier to get started.

I know that I've been gathering some of these things from my neighborhood association, and I sent an email out with three bullets about um engage bosemen, public comments and meetings, and meetings.

So when you just and you didn't just say, here's the thing about meetings, but I explained if you want to attend a meeting, you can do it in person.

You can click this link, look at the top of the page, and when the meeting starts, they'll have the video link on and stuff.

So I think just could we organize all the different places on the city website?

So it's in and there's an engagement page.

Yeah, I've heard um similar feedback like that before.

And I just pulled up the website because I'm I'm curious, like just in general, when you guys are looking at the website, what is jumping out to you?

Like, where are you naturally looking for this information?

Um, well, I'm familiar with it.

So if I was never on this website, I don't know where I would go, but I know I have a couple things bookmarked, like one that says meeting videos, I think is the link.

Yep.

That's bookmarked, and then I don't even know where you'd find Engage Bozemen on that.

Yeah, one of the it's it is buried on the front page, like this little icon, but you do have to scroll over to to find it.

I have a whole bunch of jumbled thoughts, so bear with me.

So, yeah, that would be one thing that um I think, I think having engage.boseman mt.gov, separate from Bozeman.net is confusing just from the get go.

So if there was a way, I mean I see it's linked here, but like you said, it was kind of a little bit buried.

Um will your draft have any sort of preamble or background as part of it?

Yes, one thing that I would love to see in that as sort of like a timestamp from 2026 is an acknowledgement and recognition that the city of Bozeman is playing catch up with the rampant development that occurred.

I mean, not only are safety, you know, police department and fire departments trying to play catch up budget wise, um, but even the intra neighborhood council um and the neighborhood program is trying to play catch up.

How could we possibly be representing a town that like burst out of its pants so quickly?

I mean, we're trying.

I mean, we got what three new organizations in the last year, so sort of acknowledging that.

So if there's any disparity, that seems like we're only representing a certain percentage.

Well, that's why in large part anyway.

I'm sure there are various uh reasons, but to acknowledge that that we're playing catch up and we're all in this together, doing our best to try to have more representation across the city, including the newer parts of town.

Um something that I noticed, this might be uh in response to your question number three, is I completely spaced out and didn't attend the Bozeman Creek Vision Plan thing at Suro Optimus Park, and I've been wanting to know what are their big ideas.

So I even went to the engaged.boseman site and clicked on that project, and I still can't find what the big ideas I missed was.

So some sort of synopsis for people who might not have made it physically to that event but are still very interested.

Um, and then to your question, I think you asked a question trying to get the flavor of fatigue.

I guess the word um that that comes to me that might mean what you are asking about fatigue is over is overwhelm.

Like it feels like uh I mean I try to stay engaged, right?

Like, and I would say that probably I have a sense of what's going on compared to like my average friend who who's not as plugged in for whatever reason.

And even I don't think it's possible, unless you retire, and don't have another job, and maybe don't have dependence to possibly be involved in every project that's happening.

I think it's it's it's noble that the city is trying to do a lot of projects, there are a lot of great projects, and I think it's impossible for any resident to meaningfully engage on every single one of them that's important to them.

So, how do you fix that?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'd hate to say put off things that you have funding for, but like I wonder if there's a way to sort of combine certain things.

I don't know.

I don't really have the answer, but I thought that was important to hear.

Um, so even the most well-meaning intention person who wants to try to be there, it's it's not really that feasible.

And then there was something else, and then yeah, the circling back, I think Noah kind of um spoke a little bit to this, and I guess my answer is how do you help residents feel more heard?

I don't know that there's anything staff can really do to make us feel more heard.

I really feel like I feel heard by staff.

I think for me personally speaking as Angie Koch, uh the part when I don't feel heard is often seeing how the votes are made up here by the city commission that don't seem to mesh with uh a lot of the comments that I'm hearing that I think would inform a decision.

Um so anyway, I'll stop there.

Thank you.

I'm I'm curious about something.

So with engage Bozeman, um, I mean, we're also the ink board is trying to engage, and I think what we've heard is one of the weaknesses of Inc.

is that we're not more representative.

Um we're I've heard that we're um older, some retired, um we're homeowners and we don't represent uh renters as much as we should.

So I'm curious with um Engage Bozeman, do you guys collect demographics of who um who's actually engaging?

And if you do, I'd love to see those demographics and see if there's any way we could also mimic some of the things you're doing to try to engage for our neighbors for our neighborhoods, and reach someone like Joey who um never heard from us.

So um, do you do you have demo demographics?

Yeah, we do collect that.

Um, and I will need to find how to pull it.

Um, are you interested in seeing demographics just like kind of as ink as a group?

Or um you're like, oh, I would love to see maybe like the history of who's engaged at the city in this plan in this framework.

Sure.

I think that would be really interesting.

I mean, are you if you're getting like the younger renters, um, that would be really interesting.

Like, how are you pulling them in for engage Bozeman?

As and like obviously we're we need to work on that, um, because I think we are mainly homeowners.

Are we pretty much all homeowners?

Um, we're close to it.

So, you know, to try to broaden our appeal, how how do we do that?

And yeah, sorry.

Um, I will say too that we struggle with many of the same things that you guys struggle with.

Um, and just having done many surveys and seeing the demographics of who participates, I think that it is natural that often the folks who are getting involved are older and have more time.

Um, and it's a little easier for them to participate.

So I don't think it's necessarily like lack of interest from the broad public all the time.

Um, one of the interesting things that we have seen in the survey, it's still open, so I haven't closed it and show you guys results yet.

But um, one of the things that I'm seeing prop up, um, because we asked about um what are the barriers to participation and why people aren't engaging.

And one of it, surprisingly, like the high one of the high barriers was um that they simply weren't aware.

Um another was um that they feel like their input isn't listened to, and there's a third one I can't remember, but um yeah, I think that there are a lot of different reasons.

Yeah, I mean, I know 30 years ago I didn't I had kids, I didn't have time to do this, and obviously I have still work, but I have more time, and uh anyways, I'm just curious if we can somehow work together, yeah.

Um I don't know if this has changed, I haven't been on admittedly the website in a while.

Um but I at one point when I went in there, I think it asked me to select things that I wanted to be notified about or emailed about.

And I wasn't quite sure what to I started randomly clicking things.

So now I get these emails like you know, here's this next meeting or whatever, and I um I'm like, oh, I don't really know interest in that.

Um but so that was kind of confusing.

It's just like I don't know what to click or what.

Um so I wonder if, and I, you know, I know it's like adding on to your plate, but if there were some sort of monthly, like people can just go in and put their email into like a monthly city newsletter, whatever it is, and then in that newsletter can be, you know, here's a tip on how to engage or whatever, but at least there maybe there's a monthly mayor note or something of here's the priority we're working on, but something that's a little more regular, it gives people if you want to know about this, this is happening now.

But um, yeah, when I just went in there and was kind of I don't know what to select.

Um totally and then you could post the newsletter on I don't know if you have an Instagram account or Facebook and uh next door.

Um just I think I work at MSU and I send a text, I send an email, we have an Instagram page.

I mean, we're trying to like share the information as best we can because they typically don't students typically don't check their email.

Um it's a miracle when they do and respond.

Um so just trying to kind of get a big reach as much as we can.

So I don't know if that's helpful, but that is super helpful.

Um, and just to respond to that, we like our team has been looking at creating a monthly newsletter for the city.

We do have a monthly engaged newsletter that we send to anyone who subscribed to a project.

Um, it could be really likely, and so I sometimes I wonder how many people are reading it.

Um, but I like as someone who has signed up for all e-notifications because I want to see and make sure what's going out, um, it is a lot.

Like if you were signed up for everything, it's a lot that's coming in your inbox.

Um, so one of the things that we have looked at has been a newsletter to try and consolidate some of that.

We've had some issues with the platform that we've been trying to launch, so we haven't launched it yet, but it is something we are looking at and working on.

How often do those menu items change?

Do you like subscript subscriptions that you can subscribe to?

Yeah, um, so super interesting thing about e-notifications, it's actually like I feel like we have um more people.

I think it's it's it's not even comparable how many people more people are um signed up for e-notifications.

Like, I want to say it's like 8,000 or something compared to around 1500 on engaged bosemen, and so the actual people receiving communications on e-notifications is far greater.

Um, but those categories don't change all that often.

Part of the reason why, um, is because when people subscribe, we don't want to like change it and then have to have like lose access to their email or like switch things up for them.

And so it's been um like any movement in that has been um a very slow process and deliberate process to ensure that we're not like losing touch with someone who was signed up, but that's it's one of the things that's it's not like a it's not the friendliest platform in terms of like, oh, you can just like change this and move this person over to this new category, it's like create a new whole new category for something.

I had another thought um in relation to question number three, um, in terms of an improvement that could be made to the engagement process.

Um so recently the UFMP, the urban forest management plan survey took place, and I let some folks know about it who I thought were interested in trees and value trees, and I had so many people say, Oh my gosh, thank you, I didn't even know about it.

So, and so a follow-up to that is how many people replied and uh and also curious, is there a possibility to have that extended with potentially more promotion?

And and and as something that I actually really liked about that survey that I didn't necessarily always see in other city surveys was the opportunity for open-ended comments.

Um, because while it did cover a lot, there were other themes that I thought were really important when talking about urban forest, and so it was really great to have an opportunity to type those in.

So thank you for allowing for open-ended comments.

I think that's really great.

Great.

How are you doing now?

I'm new to this organization, but I'm kind of in relationship to question number two and number three, um, making people feel heard, and then improvements to the process.

Maybe you as the city could have like a list of things that, you know, a majority of people have talked about or asked for, and then that would give them a feeling of being heard.

And it would also kind of I don't know.

Just kind of a thought on how to make people feel like they're being heard and also other people to be able to see what is kind of on the list.

I don't know.

Just a thought.

Yeah, for sure.

I would say the biggest indicator for engagement is audacious leadership.

And that's kind of what we've seen, you know, decisions that are made at the helm of the city commission, have brought a lot of people to engage that previously didn't, me being one of them.

And so there's something to be said, you know, partially grateful for that.

And um, but in some sense, that's kind of what when I see people trickle in, is it when there's a there's a big issue that um that's important and um that's pressing and that motivates people to get off their uh get off their couch and and make time for this.

I think it's completely unreasonable to expect people to feel that pressure when there isn't any, right?

It just it once if there's an issue and somebody has the avenue to express, which I think we have, right?

We did a wonderful job of that.

I was able to do that, I was able to express my issues.

I was able to have access to the commission, I was able to have access to city, like all of all of the channels are there.

I don't think we need to reevaluate that.

Like maybe, you know, as far as like we could we could be a little bit more creative in how we reach people.

Like uh Emily Talago uh mentioned using the water bill as a form of opting in to neighborhoods, or you know, including a flyer in that.

You gotta you're already sending it out every day or every every month, or having it as a cover on top of the bill if it's emailed or something like that.

But at the end of the day, you know, I think you can't, you can't go.

I think I think I think where we're going wrong nationally, and I'm like this is a big issue, is that we're trying to bring everybody in and using that as sort of the sampling of of democracy and engagement, and it's tiring because at the end of the day, it's it's it's a massive project that feels impossible.

The best we can do is make sure that everybody who is wanting or willing to participate has access to that, and I just don't see any evidence that that access isn't here.

So I feel for me it's kind of a closed chapter in that sense.

Where I'm more interested is how when a community or when a neighborhood has an idea or an opinion about what they want or what they need, how that is communicated into the city and responded to, and I think that that's where the failure point is.

The neighborhoods have a culture that's divergent from the city, and the city, you know, at times despotically, you know, says no, we we're the we're the ones in charge, and and we appreciate your feedback, but we have a different vision for your neighborhood.

We have a different vision for your block.

And I think that I think that that could change um dramatically.

I feel like the study commission hasn't been as creative as it could be, unfortunately.

Uh one of my ideas would be that the ink has a vote on the commission, right?

Like we should we should have a stronger voice, you know.

Uh, I don't think we should have a weaker voice.

Um, because we are the nodes of this community.

We are the people who know our neighbors who know exactly where every crevice and every broken sidewalk is on our street.

I know exactly what's which stop signs aren't effective.

Nobody in the city is gonna know that as well as us, and we are being ignored.

And I think that we need to give more power to neighborhoods because it's a um benevolent and self-organizing force that's free to the city.

It's a force of love, it's a force of care, and it's a force that's just been neglected.

And I don't know if it's something about leadership where people who are in charge just feel I don't know, like intoxicated by power that they don't want to let neighborhoods, they don't want to let communities just self have a self-modicum for of control for themselves.

And it's really kind of um it's kind of a painful interplay between the city and the neighborhoods right now that that I'd like to see change.

And I think the way to do that is to distill the the community through Inc.

and up the chain of the hierarchy, which is a very functional hierarchy, and to make Inc.

a uh representative, truly representative sampling of all of Bozeman as as strongly as we can, and to stop marginalizing the people who are choosing to sacrifice time from away from their families to be here despite our you know uh our advantage of homeownership or or or whatnot.

So that's sort of my vision on it, but um again, I'm on the outer circle.

Thank you.

I was gonna give you a moment to make sure you get your notes.

Um one thing that always comes up with this engagement or communications is um the setting of expectations versus the managing of expectations, and I have a I take a different connotation between those two words.

Um I can come up with a concrete example quickly here.

I think John Henderson has been very good at setting expectations as to what the scope of the Bozeman Creek Vision Plan is.

And I was in a text thread the other day, and someone's like, Well, what about the the dam up at Mystic Lake?

And I'm like, yes, it is all connected, but that is outside of the scope of the Bozeman Creek Vision Plan, and that comes back to a meeting that we had with the neighborhoods where John was very clear like this is gonna be where we draw the line.

Um but he did it in a way that just didn't make me feel like I was being managed, and that's like right on the slippery slope, the gaslighting.

So I really can't, I don't think you can read that in the manual.

Um, but I just would like that to make sure that alongside idea of reciprocity, right?

One of them leads to reciprocity and uh giving people good guardrails to work in, the other just makes you feel kind of crappy.

Yeah, I think we need to move along any other quick comments?

No, thank you.

But um, if you guys have any other thoughts, feel free to email me.

This was really helpful.

Great.

All right, let's move on to action items, officer elections.

Um I guess this is me.

Sorry.

Um we do have our officer elections.

So um just a quick comment.

Um Kath, before the meeting was asking if the secretary does the minutes, and um, it is the responsibility of the city liaison to do that, so that's not um part of that role.

But we do have the um officers up for election for the upcoming year, so that includes the chair, the vice chair, and the second secretary treasurer.

Um, if you guys want to discuss and um nominate and make a motion, can you remind us?

Sorry, can you remind us to come who I want to say Dick, you were willing to be vice chair and Emily, you were considering chair, and what is Jim considering?

Was there I think Jim was happy to stay in secretary or move to vice chair, whichever it was available.

Yeah, I just wanted to put that out on the table.

So I did email Emily, I don'm not sure if Takami had a chance to see it.

Um I nominated Emily Mason for chair, Dick Bacher for vice chair, and Jim Webster, Secretary Treasurer.

And I would like to say if anybody wants to be chair, you are welcome to throw your hat in the ring.

I just know last year we had a tough time, so I thought I'd just do it to save time.

So you said Emily and then Dick and then Jim for.

Okay.

Dig for vice chair.

Okay.

I would second.

What exactly does the secretary treasurer do?

There's nothing there.

We have no funds.

You take the minutes.

Yep.

So you are the official custodian of records as required by the bylaws of Inc.

And I'm reading directly from the bylaws here.

So you're saying you as the chair or you as the secretary trust?

Secretary treasurer.

Can you just scroll up a little bit because we could see I, but not all I.

Yes.

And if you want, I can probably pull up the bylaws as well.

And mind you, we just submitted a draft, but I don't believe we changed anything in this section.

We didn't.

Yeah.

Other than to say who would fill in for whom if people were missing.

Well, we made a suggestion that you know that we don't do it like the day of.

So we've already we've already succeeded in that way.

I do seem to recall that when um when Alison was the secretary, she used to send an update of the meeting, which is not the same as the minutes of the meeting.

Yep.

So um I don't know if that's exactly spelled out in this.

Yes, it is.

Yeah.

So I'll produce all written electronic and other modes of communication.

Yes.

So if you want to keep, I don't I don't think that this these bylaws commit the secretary treasurer to having to do that every month, but it's um if you want to be that person who's communicating with other members of Inc.

Um, that would be that role.

Well, I believe it was Jim who volunteered to either be one of the chair roles or the secretary treasurer in the email that Emily sent us in advance of this meeting.

I think in order to have all three positions covered.

Um maybe it's worth asking Dick and Emily whether you guys know you're comfortable being chair, Emily and Vice Chair Dick, but would either of you prefer to swap with Jim in regard to vice chair and chair.

Yeah, I think I'd be happy to be secretary treasurer if we could bump Jim up.

In his absence, I guess we'll make that decision.

That's what you prefer.

Pardon me.

Would you prefer that?

Yes.

Okay.

Let's do that.

Does somebody okay?

I'll make a motion that we nominate Emily Mason as chair, Jim Webster as vice chair, and Dick Bacher as is it as secretary of treasurer.

I second that.

Oh, go ahead.

Any discussion.

I do have a question.

Um, in terms of uh duties, is as the vice chair, was there something that you would have to do to prepare?

I think secretary has more duties than the vice chair, oddly enough, right?

If the secretary is writing up that monthly update for each meeting.

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that.

Yeah, so one I actually do think vice chair is a little easier.

One thought I had was I don't know if the secretary could review the minutes before they end up getting going out to everybody.

Just a thought as just to prevent.

I don't know, it's just a thought.

Just to get them quite in the loop earlier, but trying to put work on your plate.

Yeah, that would be fine.

Send them to me, we'll bless them and send it out.

So are we taking a vote?

Any seconds on that motion?

I yeah I think I think we have okay vote for Emily Mason Chair, Jim Webster Vice Chair and myself as Secretary Treasurer all on approval.

Passed thank you guys I would just like to take a moment to thank Dick for serving as chair this last year.

He did great thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner some of the Mr.

Well that was a great discussion on engagement.

I appreciate it and congratulations the new officers um uh I just want to start by saying again you know I've said this before that there's a you know that the norm for and the commission for our liaison behavior for our liaisons is that as a liaison I'm there to present or we expect you know the liaisons to present the the view of the commission to essentially remove personal philosophies agendas you know viewpoints from you know our our interaction with you as a board just because every every you know commissioner comes in with a different kind of view and agenda and and really we speak you know as we have a culture of speaking as one board one voice.

So um but you're asked about my personal views about engagement and I'm happy to talk about that I also had a little update about what our commission is doing but um but I think you know let me start by saying that the that I I think every single commissioner thinks really hard about how to engage how to make sure that I'm representing a city that I'm I've been you know elected to help lead and uh it's something you know I personally uh in 15 years of public service across all different levels from the Sacawea parent advisory council to the school board to not to the being the commission is something I have struggled with about how do you get people engaged in their local school in their in their school district and in their city and I think um you know you saw from uh you know Takami's presentation the city is constantly trying different ways to get engagement and to get people engaged and to get people speaking and I think you know Mr.

Tenbrook you spoke to it is like when we you know do something like propose to put eight houses on a single RA lot we can fill this room really effectively um and we can get people out of their living rooms and in front of us um you know I have sat next to Mr.

Cardi in this room in a community development board meeting that we had to have the police here turning people away and we filled the living room because we know they didn't get we we we made a decision and and people noticed and and took and so um you know I think I think the majority of people and it's just this is the conclusion I've come the majority of you know people don't wake up thinking about B3 height or don't wake up thinking about different things they are you know I gotta get my kids out to school um the the toilet is flushing and it gets rid of what I need to get rid of I put the garbage on the street and it goes away I have a I roll out of my driveway and I have a street that doesn't have a bunch of potholes I have a park that I can play with my kids at I go to the park and there's a dog station there with the bags in there that I can use.

You know, I mean, those are the things that um I think are really important to people and um and and and those are don't happen by accident.

So but back to engagement um we again, I I think our advisory boards are really important.

I just I don't know how to emphasize that more importantly, right?

You guys have different all bring perspective to the table.

You're here because you care about your neighborhoods.

You're here because you're listening to your neighbors as best as best anyone can.

And there are a lot of different views in a city as big as Bozeman.

And I appreciate the perspective you bring.

I appreciate the perspective of the historic advisory board, the sustainability board, the economic vitality board, everything comes in and helps to make and informed decisions.

Every one of your commissioners, I can promise you this, I cannot speak for other commissioners other than through official action, but I just know from personal experience that every one of your commissioners reads really closely all the comments, all the comments that are sent in via email.

And we listen intently when people speak here.

And we have to balance a lot of different competing desires.

And so I think one of the things I'm hearing is that Inc.

does not feel like it's being listened to, right?

And so how do we how can we improve that dynamic?

I think that's something Ms.

Mason, I would love to sit down with you and we could talk about that and see how, as your commission liaison, I can do a better job making sure that um that the Inks um views and and you know um positions are um I don't know what the word is, brought before or or you know, incorporated into you know, into you know, that you make sure that you that you feel like you know your commission is listening to what is a concern to you guys.

I would hope on the other end that you also understand that your commission, and it's your commission, uh is trying as best it's can to make a decision make decisions for the city as a as a larger entity as an entity, um and you know, for every yes, there are often several no's that we have to make, right?

And so, and in the end, somebody has to make a decision.

Um in the process we have here, it's it's the folks who went out and got the majority of the vote of the city who are in that in those chairs making that decision.

And if they're not making votes that you don't let you like, or that a majority of this commission of the city doesn't like, they're not gonna be in in that chair for very long.

So maybe just let me leave it there, but but we are oh, and I should also note that it is budget season in City Hall.

This is what I had hoped to talk to you about.

We are, you know, we're investing in um in that proposed budget.

We're gonna elevate the whole communications department to a kind of a director level affair.

So uh we're we're we're taking taxpayer dollars, which I gotta say I spend really reluctantly, but we're taking taxpayer dollars and investing in a communication effort.

Um again, it's it's not gonna be perfect, it's gonna be iterative, it's gonna be evolved and will be different in three years, um, and it'll be different tomorrow.

But but we are it's it's something that's that is really important and we think worth investing in.

And I also understand that that we have more work to do on all this.

Am I allowed to respond?

Thank you for that.

I I appreciate that, and I I understand the the immense difficulty in having to bring all of the different perspectives together and find a path forward.

And I think, you know, and I've struggled with this idea like how, you know, how do you weigh these incredibly difficult decisions where you know it's a community versus a developer, you know, or something like that.

And I I just land more and more on a term that um I started using when I first came in as sort of sophisticated, um, a more sophisticated form of governance.

And I I think we govern like we eat.

It's a monoculture, right?

It's it's we're not nuanced enough, right?

And you know, we're not like taking city blocks and saying, Well, what can go here?

We're taking entire neighborhoods or entire districts, and we're just doing blanket, you know, sort of rules more or less, right?

It's not as granular as it should be.

And I think like, you know, um Patton Guy Murphy was the one who was really telling me, like, hey, this is where Bozeman fails.

Like we should be taking a block-by-block development um approach, and that way you can really petition people on the street, like the decisions that are made in this room about what happens in front of my house aren't the decisions that reflect my will or my neighbors' will, and they have never been, and that's what's deeply painful, and it's deeply painful for everybody to watch, right?

And so it's like, yeah, we're here, we're being listened to, but the results um speak for themselves, right?

And I I do believe there's a generosity in the commission, and that you guys care and that you guys are listening.

I don't think there's like some evil agenda or anything like that.

But I would like to see people in the city being like, hey, this is the neighborhood, this is the the neighborhood liaison for that district, they know their neighbors, they talk to all of them, and as a result, they're probably gonna know what's best for that street or for for those blocks, and I don't think anybody should take that away from us, and that's what we're fighting against.

Nobody behind Costco should have an equal voice to what happens in front of my street, period.

And I think that we need to think really hard before we pass this you know new, you know, vision of the city to really integrate a more nuanced and sophisticated approach to to to governance that doesn't create these monoculture decisions.

Sorry, that's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Sure.

Um I was just uh I want to make sure when I read your your letter, it sounded like you wanted the ink, you didn't want necessarily say you want to get rid of ink, but you wanted it to fall back to commission ordinance like commission-based ordinance.

Is that a fair state, a fair reback to what you said in the better?

Yeah, I think it it should be ultimately left up, you know, it should not be written in.

My whole thing was that they not just ink, but also the whole neighborhood structure of um you know staffers, city resources, all is being dictated in the in our constitution.

You know, we don't have that level of of granularity on our fire department, our police department, our parks, none of that, right?

But yeah, we're gonna say, and and that's I will say it's it's a considerable resource, you know, that that that that charter is going to require it's gonna have to, you know, we're gonna have to make decisions about that.

But yes, so I am no lawyer, but I think some of that appears probably in state requirements, so it doesn't have to show in our charter.

I I don't know, IPs like well, as Mr.

Cartier noted, right?

He read the uh constitution to us.

You there is an absolute right, and I am um 100% in favor of that of a and I think your whole commission believes that for public participation is essential, central to local governance, and how we do that is something the community gets you know gets to decide, right?

And thank you.

Um so I think my understanding is reasonably correct.

After looking at what happened with the super boards, and then uh I had one other one other example in my mind.

Um I mean that's why I just you just get a hard no from me on it.

It's there's not enough trust there to trust that it won't just turn into huge churn, like you just reorganize the neighborhoods every couple years, and then nothing like it just totally I mean again, I'm not claiming you you specifically would do this.

This is not what I'm claiming, but we all know politicians, right?

So it's like the First Amendment, right?

There's a reason it has to be written down.

So thank you for listening.

Can I just say a little something?

Well, you know, when you mentioned the super voice, I I mean I think it's precisely because the inter-neighborhood council is currently in the charter and has been I believe for the past 20 years that saved it from the super board uh result I is my understanding of it because it it was by city ordinance to have the inter-neighborhood council exist is my understanding so that's why I think the reading of the letter where you request to strike Article 7 at that time now article eight in its entirety made it sound like you wanted to get rid of the interneighborhood council at least that's my interpretation of it because in the same letter um it sounded like we should just trust the process yes you did right about how important it is and ultimately we should just trust so I I um I think you're hearing that it's it's good to have it in there um so it has its place as it has for a while um there was something else I wanted to um ask but the thought eluded me so I'm gonna pass it on.

Any other questions or comments?

Oh yes I did want to I did want to get clarity from you on something when you when you were describing your role as liaison what I heard you say was you saw your role as liaison to tell us what the commission's up to is there any more that you would like to add about the role of commission liaison right and it's also to bring back decisions that are made here to the to the city commission.

And in your understanding of the word liaison I don't think it's explicit but if I think of the definition of how I and actually I think I might have looked up Mary M Webster um liaison implies cooperation and looking for a common solution do you see that as being part of your role as being the liaison to this council.

Yeah I mean I want to be a productive part of this uh you know operation and this effort and this communication between the board you know these our two boards yes I just have one um little comment and it and it goes back to what I was talking about earlier um in that it's for the demographics of this board um we've been hearing that we're not as important because we're only looking at one demographic we're only the homeowners we're only um elder people um slightly maybe more well off because of where we live um and anyways it's we're trying and I guess that's why I was asking about the demographics is how how we can help and but don't hold that against us because we are trying and just like engage Bozeman who's also trying and so hearing things like oh you know you only represent 28% of the city or you only represent older people don't hold that against us.

We are trying and um if you have any suggestions on how we can reach more of the renters the younger people you know bring it on.

Just to again I'm injecting my personal but I don't I have never personally I've never felt that I I you know this whole uh I've heard it you know but uh I don't I don't personally feel it uh I don't you know I this this kind of tension between renters and homeowners in this in this town you know and you know that surfaces every so often here on on this board it it makes me unc I don't I don't like it I don't I don't think it's it's uh I don't know you know is it is it real I I just I don't think it's it's a um productive way to be looking at our town and our neighborhood we have people who live in our town uh we have some people who have won the Howtery lotter housing lottery and are able to afford a house here some people who are renting, some people who are, you know, don't know where, you know, kind of their they're long term, some people are short term.

We're all part of Bozeman.

We all make this a an interesting and vibrant community, and and we all bring different perspectives.

And um, well that this was something, I think it was a community development board, and they called it the paradox of Inc.

Um, so anyways, yeah, I mean it it's out there, it's it's written down, and um, and I've been at community development boards um and commission where they talk about you know the old people who happen to be here, and um, which is ironic because it wasn't it's I think somebody's held a community development board chair position for multiple iterations who would fit that same description.

So that part's kind of and someone else also said that we don't have um mortgages, we don't have to worry about mortgages, and I was like, God, I miss that train.

It is so uh um such a relief to hear you say that, Douglas, that that you do not see that um this this fabrication I think that came forth really from lobbying efforts of like pitting homeowners against renters.

Renters couldn't exist without property owners, and property owners could not exist without renters.

It's absolutely a symbiotic relationship.

I think the problem becomes is when uh a town becomes corporately owned with no investment in there, you know, other than financial, that's when it becomes problematic.

So thank you for for setting the record straight.

Bozeman is not a place that wants to pit homeowners against renters.

Although that's definitely been the culture, and and that's what I've been hearing a lot over the two years.

Or sorry, for you're lucky to be a homeowner and we're renters, and and it has been a war.

And I don't know where the genesis is.

I like I'd like to think that I'd like to point some fingers at organizations that have uh use that uh violent rhetoric to make people feel guilty for having been in a certain place in their life where that opportunity existed for them.

And uh I'm 39 years old, I'm a millennial.

I don't like ownership of my house.

I benefit from it, but it's it's it's no walk in the park.

It's not.

And and every day we talk about giving it up because it's you know it's not it's not fun, it's a lot of work.

And I I feel horrible every time that this narrative comes across this city where you know we're split.

And the irony is that we're the same people, like the people that are you know envious of our ownership are just the next crew in line for ownership, right?

We're the same group.

You know, the people that are coming in and swooping in are that sort of the corporate money that's like displacing our historic, you know, value and and building these like just extractive monopolies.

Come on.

When are we gonna say no?

You know, like it's just we're the cajonas.

Come on.

I mean, this is just unbelievable.

And meanwhile, we're just you know getting up against each other.

You know, it's a it's a you know conquering divide mentality, and we've totally fallen into it.

We're we're all neighbors, we uh we should all get along, we should work together.

There's talented people in this room that we should all work together.

I'm tired of working against one another.

So I appreciate everything you've had to say.

You know, I've always enjoyed our communications.

I think I think you're a generous human in in in your capacity to listen and to integrate diverse groups of people, and I uh and I continue to to aspire to hope to see that as your role evolves in the commission.

So thank you.

There, I've realized we're past time, but there were just a few things I just wanted to put on your calendars, or just let make you aware of um about what's kind of coming up on the city commission calendar.

Um the 23rd of Tuesday is our is going to be our vote on a 610 million dollar biannual budget.

There's a lot of items in there.

Um, um, but but basically it's everything from you know it it's your city budget for the next two years.

Um doesn't and and so and then um uh we are looking at um uh in July, it's whether the 21st or 28th has kind of moved around a little bit, uh, looking at restructuring our advisory boards, you know.

So um, so you know, there's a discussion about how we want to, it's time to look at how did the super boards do, what what changes we need to make, you know, talk about a time to engage.

That that, you know, your view could be definitely uh welcome there, of course.

Um in August, August 4th, we're gonna start early, close to uh one o'clock, I think one o'clock or early in the afternoon and have a real uh in-depth discussion about housing.

How do we how can the city meaningfully um, you know, move the affordability measle?

Is it through a general obligation bond?

Is it through revenue bonds?

Is it through how do we create kind of a flywheel of revolving funding that we can um you know use in the community to help people afford to live here?

Um August 25th is our B3 discussion and uh transitions.

It's a work session, we won't make it decisions there, but we will be hearing from the community, hearing from our advisory boards about you know, um, what is what's the appropriate height for for our kind of core downtown, and how do we transition between the residential districts and our and our core downtown uh areas and then um then the the schedule it's kind of gets a little fuzzier out there, but that's um those are the main things that we have on our agenda.

I will say also, um, again, if I could take a few more minutes, the two big questions out of our budget that have kind of emerged from your commission discussion is um how do we approach public safety in this town, right?

It is a we spend a lot of money on on our police department.

We have a very safe community as a result, um, but a lot of our our uh public safety calls and demand are for people in some sort of mental crisis.

And so, you know, do you do you um you know kind of uh, you know, it's people having the worst day of their life, right?

And do we do we deal with do we do we deal with that kind of with downstream with police officers and so forth and and prosecutors and so forth?

Or is there a way or a role to um invest maybe in more kind of upstream mental health response, uh mental health treatment, stable housing, so on and so forth.

That's a discussion that we as a commission need help understanding and and and insight.

And I, you know, that's it's kind of like what do you, as residents as leaders in your neighborhood think about, you know, when you when you you know think about public safety and what do you want?

I mean, that's one big discussion that we need to have.

We don't have it on the calendar, but I think that's a discussion we'll be having here at some point in the next few months.

Um the other big question that uh is there are many, many needs in this city from urban transportation, you know, from the streamline to um housing to uh a fourth, you know, another fire station, which none of them you know we can of which we can afford using our current funds.

We would need to ask for more money from the public.

Do we what what ones do we want to ask for?

What is the most important thing that we are not doing now that we need a pool, for instance, a west side library?

These are questions that again we're gonna have we need engagement on, we need your input on.

Um it's a question that the city commission, you know, is is going to needs to ask.

I mean, in the budget right now, as written, is a 19 million dollar or 20 million dollar fire station on the west end of town.

We have to go to voters for that.

Um, but there are other, you know, that that and it but is that the top priority?

You know, I think that is very much a question in front of your commission right now.

Sorry to take more time, but I think all those items are gonna be a great uh header for the engaged postman.

We had talked about button topics that the public needs to get engaged in, and if you can if you can elaborate on those, give information about when public meetings will occur, how to send your your comments to the commission or to any advisory board, I think that'd be a great asset to engage Bozeman.

Just a huge uh banner right at the top of engage Bozemen with hot community topics.

Thank you, Douglas.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

Moving on to Ms.

Clark from the CD liaison.

All right, and we'll be very quick.

Just a couple of things here.

Uh shout out to New Highlight View for being the first to turn in your annual report.

Those are due by the end of the month, June 30th.

Next month we'll hear from MSU about their strategic plan listening work.

We'll have a strategic plan listening work session.

Um also want you guys to save the date for the MSU block party, which we are hosting at Story Mansion on August 27th from 3 to 6 p.m.

It's a family and student event, and we'll have ice cream, bouncy house, a lot of band and food trucks.

Jant also wasn't here today, but they wanted me to share that they are having their fourth annual neighborhood block party on July 25th.

And then finally, you guys have been working on the bylaws.

The ratification of that is on June 16th on the commission consent calendar.

So feel free to give public comment during that time.

Thank you.

Any neighborhood written updates or follow-ups?

Can I um interject Takani?

Also on July 25th, which this is an event I'm involved in, but the city is also want all the neighborhoods to know.

There is um the a uh celebration of the ADA Act, the anniversary of the um ADA, and that is on July 25th.

There's uh a walk run roll um 5k, and then also a big celebration.

And so just I forget what else you said was on the 25th, but putting that out there, reminding everybody.

I one follow up for the MSU.

Sorry, did I jump?

I don't think I jumped anyway.

Uh, for the MSU um strategic plan.

Uh Kathy, I think you had some questions that you sent to MSU that you prepared.

If you could share those and/or the responses if you ever get any.

That'd be great.

I I'm happy to share that.

I can um send it to you to commie there.

It might be good to read before next meeting.

So, I can have those as well, so I can share them with group.

Okay.

Yeah.

Have you heard back?

That was it mainly um centered around the UNA, so it wasn't like the strategic plan or anything.

It was just more issues that local issues.

Well, if you don't mind sharing, I'd love to be able to no, and I can um share both of the week that we got one that was just like a one-pager, and then I had a neighbor come in and uh give me about five pages.

Oh wow.

His was um pretty pretty long, but really good question, so I can share that too.

Cool, thank you.

Um I wanted to throw out there that with the Bozeman Creek Vision plan going on.

Um, I am interested in having what I'm maybe terming a flood watch symposium.

Uh so what do what do uh cities do to be resilient, both uh in physical um infrastructure but also financially um to floods.

So this would be um being able to talk to the people who did the preliminary engineering review, allied, as well as maybe FEMA, uh, understanding flood insurance, what happens when there is a flood, and you do or do not have flood insurance, those types of things.

I don't know if anybody else is interested in that, but I just really wanted to throw in that out there.

Sorry, people who might know somebody who could help arrange um be a speaker or something.

I don't know, I don't know if it's gonna happen.

It's a little bit of a wild idea.

Um, and then one last thing is uh Rush, the rock band is touring with a new drummer.

She is from Germany.

She's incredible.

And I'm like, I haven't been this happy in this crazy world for the longest time.

So I don't know any of you guys are Rush fans.

She's awesome.

Just wanted to add that little pleasant note.

Can I interject something before you adjourn?

Um I remember several months back we had the INC had a big like brainstorm on what our priorities were.

And one of the things that my recollection tells me is that rose to the top was training on Robert's rules.

And I'm wondering if we can bring that to the fore, especially in light of the fact we've just you know nominated and elected our officers, and July is kind of like a new beginning, and I'm wondering if it's possible to you know get a brief, engaging, interactive.

I don't think it has to be that long as per Patrick Moore who represents MUNA indicated, but I do think it would be good for us.

Yep.

Thanks.

I had a note written down because Dick actually mentioned that to me before the meeting started.

So I will follow up with you all on that.

I second that motion.

I know it's not a motion, but I second that idea.

Are there more contemporary alternatives than Robert's rules?

I mean, I you know, the decorum is kind of old-fashioned, and I don't know if anybody else is kind of thought about it.

I mentioned that because I think that's what the city currently uses, and um, they are also.

Yeah, well, maybe that's the problem, right?

What was the end of what you said, Angie?

And if I remember correctly, we also mentioned Robert's rules in our bylaws.

We did, I think because we're trying to follow.

Well, I think that was already in there.

I don't know.

That was our injection.

I think I think no, it's a conversation to have to have, but not yet.

That's my thought.

I could be here all night.

I'm serious.

I've said this before.

I love I love this.

I love talking about this.

I want to fix problems, I want to think through this.

I wish you guys all I also agree that like having guardrails, but more free discussions, I think is really valuable.

So I gotta go.

Well, I think it's time to adjourn the meeting, so meeting adjourned 6 25 p.m.

Thank you all.