Select board retreat to order on Monday, August 4th, 2025.

We're here at a special meeting to focus on our goals for the year, and I want to thank all of us for attending for taking this time out of our day and devoting it to the welfare of our channel.

And John, let's just be talking about it.

Thanks, everybody, for being here.

I think we might be able to turn it down with the knob or soon then.

Oh, that knob, okay.

I think so.

That's it.

I don't know how far you want to turn it down.

The dispatch.

Yeah, as long as I don't do it in the whole state.

I know.

We can find out from Jay.

Jay's downstairs, so the Chiefs dosters.

Jessica's looking into it already.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Thanks.

Well, excellent.

Thanks everybody for being here.

Um just a couple of logistics if you haven't been here before.

The bathrooms are through that door and down department.

Um the yeah, the agenda, um, we have a couple of different things going on, but there are breaks built into it.

So thank you for that suggestion, Isaac.

I think that will be good and help us all stay focused by having a little breaks every hour.

Um I am going to be facilitating the meeting because we want you all to be able to participate freely.

Um I have a couple of ground rules that I was hoping we could agree on for the meeting.

So is that you um talk about them?

If you have any questions on them, or we can um if you have other brand rules that maybe you want to um add, we can do that.

Um, but they are mental presence is required.

Obviously, we want you to be involved, um, hopefully free from distractions.

Again, there's some breaks in the meeting, so if you need to check emails or texts, um that we're asking you to be president.

We want to acknowledge that everybody has a voice here.

Um there are no bad questions or stupid ideas because sometimes that leads to bigger thinking or creativity.

Um please try to avoid but try yes and so this is the idea if somebody throws out an idea and it starts with but that can be very negative or off-putting, and we want to hear everybody's ideas.

Um attack problems, not people.

Uh please active listen.

Um again, breaks will help us get that little step outside, get that coffee, whatever we need.

Um mutual respect, please.

Um it's okay to disagree.

Um, if you're disagreeing, try to ask questions because then maybe we can dig a little deeper and find some common ground.

Um it's not okay not to speak up.

Um, and this one is about we want to hear from everybody.

You know, use your voice, you all bring experience to this one.

Um we'll have a parking lot if there's some things that are off topic.

Uh that way we can follow up with those at a later date.

Um we want to avoid the weeds.

Again, this is kind of the high level uh that we're looking at here, not how we're gonna go about it.

That'll be in kind of the next phase what the town manager brings back to you.

Um, and then this one at the end of the day, unity is critical, and that's really just about we're all here for a common purpose to kind of figure out what these um what the select board wants to put the policies or goals that you want to have for the next year.

So at the end of the day, we just I hope we can all walk away feeling like there was some agreement on that, or at least the process used to there's buy-in from the process.

Any questions or additions?

Concerns at all.

Good.

Um other logistics we have snacks.

Um, thanks to Jessica for arranging those to help yourself or get them on the breaks.

Um logistics.

There's some caffeinated drinks that I saw at the vending machine.

So anyway, so all right.

Um so the first thing we thought we would do is to review town plans, policies, and charter duties to kind of set the stage for where we're going.

I put together um just a couple of slides on some of the town plans just to go over that with you.

So it will be on this point for feel free to ask questions as we go along.

So this the purpose of this plan action review is to update you on the progress of implementing our plans.

So the first plan I'll talk about is the hazard mitigation plan.

This is a required plan for the town to have for reimbursement, particularly in the event of a federally declared disaster.

I think they're good for I think it's five years.

The purpose is to identify and address potential hazards facing the town, and then put forth strategic strategies to reduce the impact on the people in property.

So this plan was adopted in 2022.

Been various things done.

I think the biggest one is the 250 Bird Street or Kikita Api, the floodplain restoration there.

And so we are finishing up.

We still have that federal grant, but that will be closed up in the fall.

So both the department has as well as the slab board.

Lots of actions there.

Key challenges to this plan.

Well, there's been a I didn't add, there's been a lot of turnover in certain roles in town.

So I think the next time we write the town, the meth hazard mitigation plan, you know, we're gonna have to bring some new department heads up to speed and get some more volunteers on that committee.

Um, but capacity and funding.

So right now we've been really successful getting state hazard mitigation grants or federal hazard mitigation grants.

Usually it kind of flows from the feds through the state.

Um and a lot of federal funding is up in the air.

Um some has been caught back, so some of the projects that we've put forward are a little bit on hold.

Um, that's for the large projects, but there are some smaller items in the plan that it can probably move forward.

I just want to mention that after the SIT fire, we had a debriefing, and there were a lot of suggestions there from that one incident to go into the overall hazard plan, and I thought because it would be great to great to um pass those along to Bride in particular.

He often uh the zoning administrator often used this up.

Um he's doing excellent work with the hazard mitigation, but some of the things that have covered, sorry.

Sue maybe um you might want to explain the difference between the hazard mitigation plan and the emergency management plan, because that that may be more or less what you're referring to.

It's easy to get those confused, so I think um that the emergency management plan is kind of the response to different types of incidents that might happen in town.

So if you have a big fire or um, like it's more of that initial response, the chain of command and who you know who's doing what in those incidents instances.

Um hazard mitigation plan addresses heat, um, ice storms, things like that.

So we're trying to get out ahead of them, like what can we do to mitigate or reduce the potential harms that could happen, not like responding by the exactly and yeah, yeah.

That's the that is the hazard mitigation.

Well, both of them I think are both like trying to be prepared, but the hazard mitigation plan is really trying to get out in front of it.

And if you hear Chris Campany speak from the Windham Regional Commission, he's always encouraging towns to work on this and also be prepared that we might need to go alone because of what's happening at the federal level.

Um so that that's important to keep to keep working on this.

And my opinion, sorry, I shouldn't add that.

I'll be careful.

Um the walk bike action plan.

Um, this was to identify and plan for bicycle and pedestrian facilities to improve safety for all users of the road.

Um so key actions that we've are working on or have completed is we um studied the Canal Street corridor.

More about that in another slide.

Um we obtained a grant to uh make some sidewalk connection near the high school.

We have also put in a grant application for a path on the commons and some improvements around there.

That was not successful, but we'll keep trying.

And we were we successfully received a grant for Bridge Street to make that more pedestrian and welcoming.

And that has an RFP out for it now.

Key challenges is that there are a lot of projects in this plan and funding, obviously, is a challenge.

If we use federal funding in particular, there's a lot of requirements that we're finding that come with them that actually make them a bit more expensive.

And because we have like the multiple state routes, we often have to go for the state or federal funding.

So projects take a little bit longer and they're quite expensive, and the cost to construct sidewalk or for bike has increased over the years.

This is to address the town's housing needs and develop strategies to uh to meet those pressing issues.

Um key actions that we've taken from the plan, which had a bunch of like strategies and tactics that we could pursue.

Um we did a lot of using of regulatory requirements through our land use regulations.

Uh we've been active with the housing coalition.

We've studied town-owned properties that you know we'll be bringing them back before you if you want to have any action on those.

Um we've had lots of public education and concert and conversations about housing and housing issues and trying to spur development.

We have obtained state designations which bring incentives and regulatory relief to developers.

Um there's still more to be done there.

Key challenges are that there's outside factors beyond our control that affect housing and its development, and then capacity as well with some of the other projects that are on questions.

Um the downtown design plan, this was a pandemic era plan to make improvements to existing public spaces and to create new public spaces.

Um key actions from this plan were uh the grant funding for the Ridge Street redesign.

Uh we now have a plan for depot street in place to activate that green space on the riverfront a bit more.

Um the library received a big grant for patio and garden improvements that was mentioned in the plan.

Um there's new murals that other organizations have have brought to downtown.

Uh, public restrooms uh will be coming, and there's been a lot of transportation center improvements.

Um, and I think there is some work being done on lighting on Elliott Street now as well.

So key challenges are our funding and the typical kind of project implementation, you know.

Um I think another one I thought I had it on here.

I'm sorry if I must have deleted it.

But you know, we have a lot of parks and public spaces, and so if we're going to redesign them, is is that more important than some of the other projects of kind of prioritizing the this is the presto.

This is the Preston lot.

This is um one idea.

We've had a couple of plans that have had some ideas for the Preston lot, um, but they all involve around kind of creating some additional flood storage along the Whetstone Brook, so kind of creating an amphitheater down to the brook where you could store some more floodwaters in a flood, and in this scenario, there could be a bag of parking.

Um yeah, that's an idea for Preston lot.

What what where is that in the pipeline from idea to something that could actually happen?

It's not right now.

It's an idea that it's not in a pipeline yet.

Um I would say DBAs.

Sound in the watershed filtering its way down to the reservoir.

Yeah, but like Daniel and I really liked this plan.

There were a lot of really good things in this plan that maybe we should um give to this new members so that they can understand what we're headed about.

Yeah.

DDA is actually starting this Wednesday, actually, every Wednesday from 11 to 2 in August, they're going to be activating the space a little bit more.

So I would say maybe there's been some baby spat steps, even with the youth event that happened in July, you know, thinking about this space in a different different way.

And when you mentioned capacity as challenges, are you talking generally, or when you mention it, are you specifically talking about planning department capacity?

Okay.

Yeah, cool.

The Canal Street Corridor plan, that was the plan that was finished this April to more specifically look at bike and pedestrian improvements and stormwater improvements in the Canal Street corridor.

So you know, we've we've had conversations with the state about actions that can be achieved during the paving project.

The flip side of that is the state originally they were going to be paving that road in 2026, and now they're doing it in 2025.

So there's a very short way to affect any changes.

So we've tried to say, what about line striping changes?

So those conversations are still ongoing.

We don't know if they're willing to do any change orders to that project.

Um that project's come up at Select Board meetings.

Public has asked what's going on because I think this was much like so.

Yeah.

We need to inform the public of that what you just said about 2025 and where are we?

Because a lot of people were reticent about some of those changes.

Yeah.

Um other challenges is you know, we had thought that we'd go after one of the big federal grants to kind of make a lot of progress on this at one time, and those are kind of a known, you know, it's some are still around that we might be able to pursue, but you know, we're talking of you know, multi-million project if we were to put in a protective bike lane or that kind of thing.

So it's it's funding.

Um but I think you know, even with that, there are certain things, even if the state can't do it, there might be some things that traffic safety committee can recommend to the sled board and work in.

And then there's the town plan, which at this point is almost expired.

Um the the planning commission is working on a new town plan, so I wasn't gonna dive too too far into that.

That is their their major project, but I'm happy to answer any questions about the town plan.

Um a lot of the plans that I spoke to before this town plan kind of were recommended in that so that we could move some things forward.

So there has been a lot of town plan implementation for sure.

So I think the purpose of looking at these plans is to realize there's a lot of things that the town has expressed intent to do, and we are working on them, but there are challenges and limitations to being able to do all the great things that we would like to do.

And so um before so before you start thinking about adding lots of additional things or anything like this is all happening, it's kind of operationalized, it's in the works, but it requires Sue to put together a grant, us getting the grant, then trying to get you know all everything lined up to do, like say the work at the library or one of these other projects that we have.

So any questions on the plan list.

Excuse me.

If you could speak a little bit more loudly, because it's a little difficult to hear you going that direction.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I had a question about the project.

It sounds like there might be a few projects live around here that are have been proposed around flood mitigation or other similar ideas and curiously what would be the way to learn more about those?

Are they in here?

So they're not in there.

Um so the downtown design plan is on the town website um under the planning department projects.

Um that's one place.

There was a study done in 2016 or 2017, which I'd be happy to send to you.

Um we had worked with the EPA, or we were selected by the EPA to have there was kind of a whetstone corridor kind of planning because Brattleboro has a lot of infrastructure in kind of the floodplain in that area.

How can we preserve and make use of our infrastructure but built better?

Um, so what are some ideas?

So that initially, the Preston Law idea initially came up from that point, which was um designed for resilience in the Whitstone Corridor.

And that's also on the town website, I saw it too.

And happy to speak about them online.

I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of these plans came out of planning and resiliency after Tropical Streaming.

Yeah.

And if we can stream cross or that's more recent, all those factors and it takes a long time, yeah.

That new car, yeah.

The new critic first came about in 2012.

Yeah, with some state help.

Actually, I think it was mentioned before that.

It was probably mentioned in 2008 when they were doing stream geomorphic assessments of the Weston Brooke.

So yeah.

And Tri-Park Master Plan, that actually started in the early 2000s.

Um, the idea of moving the homes out of the floodway.

Um, and it wasn't until after Tropical Storm Marine that that actually got the lenders got new abandonment.

Yeah.

Is there one of those different projects or plans that you think has the most prospect, or could just use a little encouragement from the select board or the coming soon?

It's kind of where would there be opportunity, like where would you suggest that we pay attention?

I think that's a that's a tough question.

Um I don't I need to think about that one.

Sure.

We need to think about it after some.

I think so much of it is sort of funding related, like you you're sort of where you're going is like if we could get some state or federal help or something, like what would be the one we all focus our attention on, like that, Isaac, or yeah, or one that doesn't require so much money or one that there's yeah, yeah, that's actually we we have the funds for it would be good for us to be talking about I'd have to think about that.

And does the town still have brownfield money, or is that uh windham county?

No, we do not have um Brownfield's assessment and money anymore.

The Wyndham Regional Commission has some, but not very much.

They needed they weren't eligible to apply for more this year, so they'll well when it comes out later this fall, they will apply for more.

So this is money to assess Brownfield sites.

They do have cleanup funds and they have a fair amount of cleanup funds.

So if it is a brownfield site, which is do you know what brownfield sites are sites with real or perceived contamination?

And so there's like the first level is you're gonna do the assessment of it.

Um and EPA has had funding available to you know be able to hire consultants, like the town of Brattleboro had assessment funds for a period of time, and we could hire uh people to do assessment on private sites or in some situations sites that we owned.

Um Windham Regional Commission has those funds, and then if a project comes to being, there can be cleanup funds that can help with the redevelopment of it.

So that can be like a grant or a loan or a mix of it.

So basically trying to level the playing field and bring down the cost if you were developing on a green site as opposed to one that has contamination on it.

So um, yeah, any other questions on the plans?

Oh, I didn't what's the process with the town plans or the how does that does that come to the select board?

That shouldn't be plans, but yeah, okay.

It will.

So um the select board ultimately adopts the town plan, so the planning commission writes it, and the select board adopts it.

There'll be a public hearing so that our current town plan expires in May of 2026, so probably um March, April, there'll be some uh select board public hearings that we'll be asking the select board to conduct.

Um the planning commission will have a set of public hearings before that.

So yes, it was fascinating and horrifying to be the chair of the planning commission with that report, and we brought it to the select board, and they said no.

And it was shocking.

Um they had very specific reasons and very specific things that they wanted change, but they wanted them changed, and so we changed them.

Which was interesting, but they had how they wanted it to be.

And our original plan was not acceptable until we changed it.

Then it went on to be the greenest plan in the state of Vermont.

Yeah, so the town plan.

So at that time, um, there were some particular things that the select board wanted changed in terms of what they were gonna see in future land use regulation amendments, or that was primarily it.

But in other states, a town plan, master plan, comprehensive plan, whatever you call it, is more of a grant visioning.

Um here in Vermont, it's got some other roles, which makes it challenging.

So it's good for eight years, so you know you're talking about this vision that's longer, but you're also looking at an eight-year kind of horizon, and sometimes there's language in it because it could get used in state regulatory proceedings.

So it's a little different.

Do you think some earlier conversations with the planning commission would be worthwhile for the select board?

I do.

Yep.

Yeah, I think that would be helpful.

Um, particularly too in regards to Act 50 changes and those centers and um what's exempt now, and how long it will remain being exempt and where where it is in that world because then's change the new drafting of the new plan quite a bit.

It does in terms of housing development.

It does.

So obviously the work of the select board's kind of guided by the charter.

Um, we do have copies of the charter if anybody wants to pull one out and if you have any questions.

Um copy over there?

Okay, I'll probably go there.

Thank you.

And of course, this is subject to change, but yeah.

I'm not gonna lose this.

We're in the time.

So um, so the the little funny telling me me telling you your powers and duties, not the responsibilities, but it's you know, if it's on page eight, so to establish and maintain a police department, fire department, um, rescue service, um construction and maintenance of roads, sidewalks, there's a whole host of them.

I'm just picking a couple of them out, um, condemning lands or buildings, um lease and maintain real and personal property owned by the town.

So have any questions?

I have a question about section six D, which is to establish health services is for provided in 24 BSA chapter 69.

Anyone here north in chapter or in 24 BSA chapter 69?

Yeah, I don't know.

It's um it's a pretty chapter part that essentially allows towns to do ambulance services, for example.

Uh it allows them to cooperate with a hospital, like they can provide a hospital or support a hospital.

Um they can have like a registered nurse on staff to help people in the town.

That's uh sort of there are some other towns that do that, or even a licensed physician.

So the health department, the state health department must have nurses over there, uh I believe they do, but yeah, I think they do.

Any other questions on the charter?

Is there any clarity in section six of what is a power, what is a duty, and what is a responsibility?

Because for example, we talked about well, maybe I won't give any specific examples because I'm not sure if that if I was public yet, but for example, are there what things on this list are we required to provide?

And I'm not asking you, Sue, I'm also not asking you to look this up.

It's just uh there's a big difference between a power and a responsibility or requirement.

So just something we'll have to navigate.

Yeah, and Oscar, that might be a good if you want to delve into that more, that would be a good conversation to have uh Bob Fisher help us understand that because there are some responsibilities under the state statute for select boards and town managers, and uh, but these were more the legislative approved powers, I think that kind of are are come out of that state statute.

So that makes sense.

There must be case laws.

Yeah, I would think so.

Yeah.

Like surely we are required to have a fire department.

It's not just something we can do if we want, I would assume, as an example.

But many towns have volunteer.

Right, yeah.

Yeah, so for example, it's uh power to establish a maintainer rescue service.

We we did that through contract for many years, but now we do it directly.

So the other questions?

I think we're ahead of time.

Were there any policies we wanted to review?

Or you just mean generally ahead of time, not that we're done with our section.

No, I mean yeah, so policies um yeah, are there we didn't have any to bring forward.

Okay.

Um I was just curious because I know there are you know, past select boards have adopted policies and guidelines and things like that.

I was wondering if they lived all in one place, or there was some way that we could easily know what has been committed to in the past, things like that.

You mean about like sustainability and things like that?

No, well, like uh as an example that came up this year, the the fund balance guideline is something from the past that if you didn't know about it, you probably have no idea it existed.

So I'm wondering if there are other things like that, for example, that I might not know about that you know adopted 12 years ago and is in a drawer somewhere.

Okay.

The only ones I could find um was uh in 20.

So there's a set of policy municipal policies and codes that towns in Vermont are required to adopt, readopt every 10 years uh in order to be eligible for community development block grants, and those are surrounding equal opportunity, equal equal employment opportunity, fair housing, use of excessive forests, use of federal funds for lobbying, code of ethics for administration of uh Vermont community development program, drug-free workplace, sub-recipient oversight monitoring, and whistleblower protection.

Um, and those were adopted by the select board in 2019.

I actually couldn't find the ones that Brattleboro signed off on, but I saw this this form that Harper had signed off on in 2021, so I'm assuming it's the same.

Okay.

Is that here in the charters?

It's not in the charter.

No, it was from combing the combing the server, actually.

And I think this is maybe, yeah.

I think it I mean, I I don't think we've done in the past, I don't think we've done a great job job of tracking all of those, and I think it would be a wonderful project to like get them all on the website or something like that so that people could find them easily, and you could see them and decide if you want to update them or whatever.

But um, but that that would take that'll take a little bit of time.

Going through the server trying to find that's not a high candle somehow displayed.

So I mean there's policies around the different loan funds, so like the small business assistance, the rental housing program, um tax stabilization, those policies are found online, and then there's also the employee handbook, which has a bunch of policies in them, which the select board is responsible for adopting.

But yeah.

Sounds good, thank you.

That sounds like a great idea, um, John, having policies for the flack board is adopted on the website.

A few over there, it's like maybe if it's something we keep in mind as as we find it.

As we make them, yeah, or as we find in researching something else.

Oh, there's something from 2005 that's still in effect.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely for any that you passed, we should have a process.

That's a good idea.

A reservoir for those, yeah.

All right.

Um, any other questions on this section?

Are anything else you want to discuss about it?

Um do we want to keep moving forward, or do you want to we'd have break at one at two, but we're ahead of time.

So I don't know.

We can crack open those snacks.

I was worried that there weren't going to be healthy snacks, and I brought some green beans from my garden.

But I don't think we have to break into them because they look very healthy over there.

Did you have something else for you?

No, I'm just uh no, no opinion.

I think either way it's good.

We can break the three sections for that.

What one suggestion would be if you want to uh hold that this first break a bit and uh we could we could combine and then maybe take a little bit longer one if someone wants to go get a coffee if there isn't something here or anything like that that someone mentioned like that.

I like that okay, yeah.

All right, um, um so in your in the memo that Sue puts together for you.

We have a we've done this two, we've done a retreat two years, and so uh in both cases, we get sort of the uh yeah, the idea behind doing this the select board used to have a list of like 40 goals, I think we called them, and they rarely was much done on them because it was too all over the place.

And so the conversation was can we get that narrowed down to what is it that the board really wants to focus attention on with the hopes of uh making progress on some things that aren't already operationalized?

And so the first year that we did this, we came up with five things that was uh from for 2023-24, and then building the 2025 budget, and those were making the transportation center a good place for parking, and a lot of effort then went into that concept, that idea uh over the past uh really since 2023, about the past two years.

We've done a lot to try to churn the transportation center around and be more for what it was designed and intended to be than for what was happening there or the perception of what was happening there.

Uh so that was one of the board's priorities in 23.

Uh, the second thing that that board came up with was the town pool.

So that was at the time that the uh town meeting was voting on the living memorial park improvements, and a lot of people were saying, but what about the pool?

You know, that wasn't in the the renovations of living memorial park.

We need another project for that.

So the board agreed at that point and said yes, we should develop a vision for the pool, which uh has since occurred.

We do have a conceptual plan there, yeah, soon and and um and it's in the long list of things that we may or may not have adequate funding for.

Um the third thing was finding a path form for community safety, and so that was uh resolve it, try trying to resolve the conversation in the community around the community safety plan, have what things are outstanding there and what things are we just moving forward with and and doing either in accordance with that plan or um or differently at this point due to different circumstances.

And the fourth thing that year was developing the concept of safety zones, so again, kind of somewhat related to the work at the transportation center, but more broadly.

Uh, are there areas that we can have uh particular public safety focus on certain places that don't have a feeling of public safety at that time, and then the fifth thing was advancing housing initiatives and housing was discussed as a as a high priority.

And then the fifth thing was advancing housing initiatives and housing was discussed as a as a high priority.

So the board made those their five priorities, and uh we did get to work or what were working on or got to work on all five of those, except actually the um the safety zones one kind of fell off the plate, and we realized oh my gosh, with everything everyone everyone is doing otherwise, it's like five is an awful lot to to have an extra lift on for coming out of select board priorities.

So the conversation last year was can we can we get it down to three?

And I think three to five is probably the right amount, but if if you start going five, six priorities, then it's likely we won't have capacity to do well on all six of them.

So that was kind of I think a lesson that we learned there.

So last year we we hadn't really resolved the community safety conversation that became a big focus for um for last year and into uh to 20 2025, and uh the second thing there was developing a concept for child safety zones, and that that was that was kind of the one that fell off the plate in the previous year, and then the the third one that came up last year that first emerged that I that I had heard was revenue sharing with the state, and how do we how do we increase what were the support we're getting from the state to um offset and mitigate the the uh burdens that we're placing on Bradlboro taxpayers?

So those were the three big ones last year, and um we I think made good progress on community safety.

A result of that was the downtown safety action plan, uh which the uh police chief brought to the select board, and they um wanted to move forward with hopefully improving our public safety stance in the downtown.

That was a real focus.

Uh child safety zones that resulted in the acceptable conduct ordinance, which the select board approved, and then it was overturned at town meeting.

So a lot of effort went into that, a lot of staff time, a lot of effort, but it was ultimately not accepted by the community.

Um and then revenue sharing with the state.

We've worked very hard on that, um, mainly with the legislature and trying to get uh additional ways to support the town.

Uh one of the well, there were a couple of things that happened in the last session with limited time we had to uh to work on that, and one was uh increase in the share to the local community on the sales tax.

So that went from 70 percent to 75 percent.

So something like in the neighborhood of 40 grand, 40, 50 grand additional that will be coming to the town as revenues.

When does that start?

When does that start?

Um I believe probably this fiscal year, okay.

So then oh, and then there was also a grant of 750,000 to the town to support the Winston Prouty project, and a slew of other things that we took a run at, but we're not getting the support that uh you know led to any outcome for the last session, but maybe something that can develop in the future.

Uh so that's kind of where we are.

Those were the past select board priorities.

Um we it would be great to know as you start to talk about your priorities as a board.

You know, are there any of these that you think should continue on?

Are they something that you want us to continue putting efforts towards, or are there new and different things that are more important now given given the circumstances and as you know it?

So any questions on sort of the track record on this.

I wonder John if you could um detail approximately like how many hours over the last 12 month period you've spent working on the revenue sharing piece because I think um the the general public really doesn't know what percentage of your work as town manager is going to that advocacy, yeah.

Um I would I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of like three weeks worth of work, probably totaled up.

Uh I I put a pretty good focus on that.

So yeah, so uh 100 120 hours somewhere in there.

And oh sorry.

Well, I just wanted to say that that was my big idea, and I you know, in the last year or more, and I want to continue I want to continue that effort, and I think that we um we need our legislators didn't really have it's new to them, didn't really have a good understanding of what revenue sharing is and in New Jersey, um all towns with um a high degree of poverty, um a disproportionately high tax rate that because of poverty the community can't pay their taxes, and some a lot of other factors um make the state understand that some towns need urban aid and nobody in the Vermont wants to call it urban, but certainly um hub town people or um older community aid because there's a set of towns that have these problems, and when I was first discussing it with some of our legislators, they didn't understand that, and they said, well, what are you gonna do with the money?

And what you need to understand is that revenue sharing reduces the tax, and so that's the point of it, really, is to reduce the tax burden on the community for the things that our community has to pay for that are associated with um levels of poverty and distress in our community.

We have we have twice the poverty rate in our community as a state as a whole, and it's uh burdens for us all, and so the point of revenue sharing is to help the taxpayer and reduce and reduce the budget accordingly, and um you know I want to continue to gather those facts, and I want to I want to hope that we can all continue that search with um maybe data from Sue from the census working with our to really create a case for the legislator and the governor that not only are towns but other like towns need this help because we have problems that you know small little towns don't have and um it's a tough sell because I think everyone's asking the legislation and government for money, and so we have to frame our revenue sharing argument correctly, and I look to John's leadership on that.

Liz, can I ask you?

Um are you so last year we talked about whether or not we were gonna operationalize things or you know, is it gonna come back as a as a priority?

So are you thinking that you want to propose that as a priority, one of the you know, three to five priorities for the coming year?

Okay, right.

You jumped ahead a little bit.

Well, what I'm just saying is that this was worthwhile last year, and I and it wasn't acted on, and I want to keep it front and center because it's important.

Okay, and I think that we've learned through the budget process that not only do we as a town need to mind our peace and shoes in terms of the budget, but we need help from the state.

Oh I wonder is it exclusively a top administration job to do the advocacy with the state?

Is there anyone else on town staff that supports you when you take trips to Mount Pelia, take the calls, etc.?

Um I mean, you have an assistant administrator, but I'd like to learn more about that.

I think just uh it's kind of like um it's like you're a farmer, right?

Like I'm a farmer and I'm a select board member.

Like not a lot of people know what I do in the select board job who see me at the farm, and vice versa.

So it's kind of like some more transparency.

That's why I asked the question about how many hours, how heavy of a lift is it?

Is it sustainable for the next 12 months?

How can you be supported?

Yep.

Yeah, um, and along those lines too, is like the the more we can focus on what like revenue sharing is a huge huge topic, right?

So the more we can focus on a particular thing, and maybe we can in a minute in a few minutes we can have a conversation about like what might be a particular thing to focus on.

That that is a the first step, and then because if we can all kind of agree, like we want to go after whether it's an urban urban aid type bill, that's that would be that's a huge lift right there.

Um it could be a local option gas tax or fuel taxes come up, like that.

Maybe that's a way that we could you know get more revenue that wouldn't be out of the state's pocket so much, but more people who are coming into town, um or you know, it additionally taking additional runs of the the low the option tax uh uh pro kind of proportion sharing there, you know.

If we can figure out like where is the best place to put our focus, then we could put that limited capacity to that effort.

But um, I we do get a fair amount of support, Amanda, from the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, and they have a couple of lobbyists there that are very knowledgeable.

The challenge there is that they necessarily have a statewide focus, not a Brattleboro focus.

So that means you know, we we try to be in alignment there and and we get learn a lot of information there, but we aren't necessarily it's really our legislative delegation that is the best support for Brattleboro issues if if they could be focused on what that is.

Well, actually, Sue, do you well should we should we wait a minute or before or should we just jump in?

Um I think that we should probably wait a minute and then because I think we're we're getting close to that anyway, but okay.

Um on the past priorities, uh I mean, one of the things we did last year is we did the operational, we still work on housing, right?

It just wasn't one of the top priorities.

We just operationalized that and understand that that was still something important to the select board, and we're gonna keep moving forward with that.

Um so there is this idea of like some of this is just getting rolled into our work, and obviously John has less people in his department now, but you know, there is a some opera operation that gets done.

So going back to the housing, um you gave us a figure how many um permits for new units.

Oh, I started looking at that like this what six months you have reported the number.

We had well in the last six months, I think we were around 68 for this for this calendar year.

So that's incredibly significant.

Yeah, it organically something's happening.

Yep.

Yeah, and I think the led the land use regulation that has helped spur uh more units, whether it's some Act 250 really from the you know from what we've done.

Um so yeah, yeah, not all created yet, though.

That's harder to determine because their permits issued.

Can you say 68 permits for what time period?

Uh since the calendar year, so January 1st.

Oh this year, yes.

That's incredible.

That's approximate the number in front of the yeah.

That's the most sensitive.

And 2020.

Yeah, 2024 was our highest year since the 1980s.

So and we're on we want to build on that.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think since the housing action plan was done, uh, that's you know, conservatively called for like 57 housing.

We're about through the permits issued, we're about halfway there.

And that includes some loss of housing units along the way for buyers or and does that include Winston Proudy?

It does not include those two craft.

Uh, wait a minute.

Yes, I think it does include Winston Prady because they do have a permit for 28.

But that's 28.

Yes, and just more to come.

Yeah, that's great.

And then the trouble of planning, you know, you have the development regulations and they're just sitting there.

People have to act on them.

Okay.

And what is so is the housing advanced housing initiatives purely building housing or also reclaiming, so say someone buys an apartment building and we put 11 new units online for um once those go on those go into that number.

Yeah.

When the permit is issued for the audit.

Yeah.

So yes, that includes that kind of housing too.

Yeah.

So is there anything from this list that we want to talk about operation opera operationalizing?

Uh I guess from the 2024 to 2026.

Well, I mean, I want to revisit the um concept of child safety zones again.

Do you want to bring that up in the next section?

You can tell me what to do.

We're definitely reading it over.

What's the difference between operationalizing and saying for the next priority?

Yeah.

So operationalizing would mean it wouldn't necessarily land on the list.

You wouldn't put it forward in the next section of it, but it's you know, there's agreement that we want to kind of continue to work on this.

It's just not going to be one of our three to five well listed.

In that case, then I would just like to operationalize the revenue sharing.

It doesn't have to be one of our top three priorities because John's already working on it.

I would agree with that.

Yeah, as long as we just have a focus on that.

That'd be great.

So the green light, it's like the green light continues on to the next year, not something.

Yeah, cool.

I think it has some merit in sort of pointing out like our first board retreat and our second board retreat, and just some of the priorities that were made in the 2023 version of this.

Um you know, finding a path forward for community safety was three, and we went through that summer and how the very next one come up as like the first two things.

You know, so I mean, as we do this, like the landscape can change while you're standing on it.

So, you know, and and and things can get a little intense, and you know, being able to kind of be able to pivot within the moment and kind of recognize what people are yelling about.

I think it's just really important for us as we as we do this today and kind of moving that forward, how these things are really just sort of in flux.

We might leave this table with a really good idea, and then something happens tomorrow that completely derails it.

Well, yeah, that's true, and certainly about the safety concerns on the park and garage, for example.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, but you know, we did have a meeting about community safety, and there are many things in that community safety report that have been adopted either by the administration or by the police department themselves.

Um I think we should be very proud of them.

Um we have a focus on DEI, we have a focus on mental health, and you know, the one Brownborough and the situation table are uh really focusing uh the police and community services social services together to you know meet people's complex needs a town with a lot of people with complex needs and um all of the things that our police department is doing that were that were brought up during the community safety report are really great.

You know, the the data collection is improved, um they have uh a complement of people without guns, which also primary in the community safety report.

There are many many things that have been incorporated into our town from that report and I consider it to be a success.

I'm wondering um because there's because the three of you weren't involved with the concept of child safety zones.

Do you want some you know?

Are you would you like some more information about that?

I mean particularly from Peter since he brought it up not to put you on the spot, Peter, but are are there questions um there for I think the review would be really great, and also anecdotally because we have the community safety plan you know, in process, ongoing, green lighted.

Um I'm at I'm for green lighting that you mean the downtown safety action.

Yes, sorry, yeah, sorry.

It is the wrong language, correct?

Yeah.

Um so how the child safety zones actually are it's sort of like the housing initiative, but housing is being you know built.

So it's these are two things happening simultaneously.

So there's the plan, but what already has been sort of checked off that plan from our downtown safety action plan as it relates to child to child safety.

Exactly.

Yeah, that was part of the downtown safety action plan, I'd say broadly.

And um we can take another run at that if you want.

I it would need direction on that, whether it's here or otherwise.

But um well, there was a project in Burlington that had um ordinance focus, and then the administrative part of it was being developed that was like um think of that word about restorative justice.

And so um Sean might have been talking to some people in the battle about that.

Yeah, um we've been talking a bit about is is that Burlington model um of uh acceptable conduct ordinance uh a bit different than what we that Brownbrook had tried to do, and is that a model that working with uh interaction or other programmers is that something that we want to move forward or not?

So kind of thoroughly exploring on that idea.

Um I but I haven't had something a huge amount of time to put towards it.

But so if that's something that suits Peter's idea, um do we want to make that operational?

Do we want to say to John?

You know, yeah, continue because I think that the problem that RTM had with the ordinance was in the administration of it, that they didn't want it to be in the town manager's office, but lo and behold, the town manager doesn't have even a minute to to make that operation to do that work, but somebody like interaction or restorative justice would be a um better received by the community and b something that could be better achieved and coming at the town offices.

And I'll Peter, first of all, what do you think?

Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm okay with it being operationalized at this point.

I mean, I feel like we've done a lot of work and you know, we have a the more integral part is already in play.

Um I'm still seeing open drug use on our streets.

Um, you know, I'm still seeing a lot of these things that I feel like we need to um have a some sort of a I don't know, like a better, a higher focus on how to mitigate that issue um as as well as just having a response to it that keeps it out of a sort of a carcassal realm, right?

I don't just um you know, and I think the basic crux of this whole entire um idea was early 2000s when it was at a state initiative or was it a town initiative?

I can't remember.

I think it was a state initiative about drug safety zones uh around schools and where kids congregate.

And that's a that's a national that's a national thing, but I I think this was addressing how the state of Vermont dealt with it, and it all had to do within 500 feet of I think it was just a school zone.

I think part of the thing that I wanted to do was recognize where kids congregate.

Um and the hottest spot at the time was Flat Street between the boys and girls club and the New England Youth Theater, and the of course you've got the press and law, which was really highly problematic at the time.

The transportation center also highly problematic at the time, um kind of being right between those two things, and people not feeling safe.

So the repurposing of that zone, reframing it in in such a way that that still an idea of downtown safety um was was where this was born.

And you know, and I agree with Liz.

I think where it sort of lost its way a little bit was uh maybe getting a little too into the the weeds.

I know John's done a little work uh with interaction and having these conversations.

Uh I don't know where they are now, but I think that was sort of my mindset basically saying you don't you can't do that here, stop be the first thing, just don't do it again.

Catch doing it again, then you know, here's gonna be the next step, and I think that's sort of where like interaction and with uh people that that sort of restorative justice thing kind of takes into play, and hopefully we we get some we get some traction with that and and not having this sort of open drug view, not can't bring a beer on the street, uh drugs on the street.

I we see I see both happening, but more to the drug side of things than to just actual open container violations.

And I'll reinforce that at the time you're talking about, I think the Boys and Girls Club of America did an audit of our Brattleboro Burns and Girls Club and failed that they failed it as an unsafe work environment for employees and an unsafe environment for children around the time you're specifying.

Um so that's that's really significant, right?

And um, and evidence regarding the necessity of what would be potentially a child safety zone for those two very vibrant child organ, you know, organizations, and the boys and girls club has recommitted themselves to Brattleboro through a renovation that they're going to do, chosen to stay in downtown Brattleboro, and that's no small thing for our town.

I think it's really great.

And also the teen night that DBA did, they're gonna do another one in September, um, Kay told me.

So I mean, there's just a lot of potential for that flat street corridor.

That's very positive.

Yeah, no, agreed.

And and again, I think I think through having this thing as a priority on the select board thing has moved that needle a lot.

You know, I don't I think you know, I think right now we're still sort of writing a little narrative that's maybe a few years old.

Um and you know, but continued diligence uh and focus on this, whether operationally or as a board directory.

Uh I guess that knob really wasn't already.

So is is I I just I just want us to sort of remain sort of focused that these issues um, although mitigated, I haven't hasn't haven't dissolved.

I don't fully expect them to completely dissolve on being realistic, but I think if we continue on it and and create, and one of the biggest ways to do that is sort of create some of the things we're talking about for like the press and law where there's activity down there, and then you know there's a lot of positive energy, is also another way to just to combat this.

So, you know, I mean I like those ideas as well.

I think both of these ideas have merits that are worth talking about.

Um I'm hoping what I think I'd prefer is that we go through all the ideas, the whole group of them, and then at the end we can have the conversation about what's operationalized, what's a priority, and see them in context stacked up against other things.

I would agree with that too.

I I think that um like this would be a to do this, or you need other things wouldn't get done.

So I think it should and you know, I mean, we've we've we've had a good focus on this, well, not a good focus.

But last year we've had really good focus.

The first year was crushing disappointment for us.

That's a good balance.

Yeah.

But the other the end of last year was also disappointing too.

I the the other thing about Flat Street that I think we need to say is sometimes um the behavior shifts, and I've had members of the community telling me that Plaza Park is uh ripe with um drug activity and related crimes.

And so, you know, we have our police department and and social services working hard, you know, one battle bar and so forth, but um we're not out of the woods yet, and we need to keep our focus on having a community that's safe for everyone so that we can have uh you know the economic development and the other things, you know.

This this is our downtown, and whether it's on um preston lot or a plaza park, it's still downtown.

Right.

You know, we're seeing uh new problems popping up at Elliott Street, yeah.

Right, that getting like pictures texted to me and emailed to me and people stopping in and talking to me about it, and you know, there are concerns there.

So we can ask star if she'd have anything she'd like to come to.

Yeah, at being at the other end of downtown.

We definitely are seeing a lot more problems in the last even the last couple months.

So why don't we um you know I think your your idea of putting it out there with the rest of them is just seems good.

Seems like that might be a productive way to move forward.

So it is can I have my sellers taking that?

Let's take a break.

Um you want to do that 15 minutes with my factory 235?

We had a good little break.

Um so yeah, we had some good conversation about priorities of the last time.

Now we're gonna move into setting them for the 2025 through 2027.

Um the way that I propose to do this, um, and we hopefully we can all agree to it is you were all asked to kind of bring your big idea and then also have some others that maybe were percolating around.

So we'll go around the table sharing what your big idea is.

You can speak to it, kind of explain it, you know, part of it is to also be able to to get other people, other fellow members to be interested in it.

So, you know, take your time, explain what you're thinking.

Um there'll be time for questions.

Um so we'll go around once with the big ideas, and then we'll go around and put up the other ideas that you might have.

I'm gonna write them on the whiteboard.

Um, and then once we've had the discussion and you've had your questions answered, um, we'll have like a rank choice voting of them silently.

So yeah, so um can you all agree to that?

Um basically you what we'll probably do is have you rank five, your top five, um, and then you know, from there we'll we'll see how it kind of John and I are gonna have to take a little a moment to kind of calculate it, maybe over one of the breaks, and we're not hilarious, yeah.

But yeah.

So did you say something about the three like other ideas that we'd like to discuss?

Did you just say that and I missed it?

Oh, yeah, so those will come, so we'll go once around with the one big idea, and then after that we'll go, you know, round robin with uh the other ideas that you have.

And we'll put them all up on the board before I start to go.

Yeah.

Does that sound can you can you all agree to that?

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, all right.

Excellent.

So let's go first with our big idea.

I feel like I've done a lot of talking so far.

So I'm happy to go quiet.

All right.

Mine is less fun and exciting than I think some of these ideas would be, but basically the the thing that is uh haunting my thoughts is the coming budget.

I think we face two pretty obvious constraints.

One is that responsibly we we have to budget for we can't sort of crib from long-term expenses to keep the number down on a sort of good government responsibility side, and then on the other side, I think if it's above a certain number, we're gonna have problems.

So my priority and the thing that is most often on my mind is finding a budget this September that is let's say low single digit increase, but does not um you know, sort of make withdrawals from long-term expenses together.

Sorry, the last part without making withdrawals.

Well, yeah, from long-term expenses, uh, the wording is bad, but do you want us speak more to it or do other or do other board members want to jump into a question?

This is like shark tank, Oscar.

Yes, and you can sell it.

Right.

Well, then I'm out.

I just think it's the the thing, the the job that we in part we we I think we're able to pass the second budget because we made a bunch of promises about this coming budget, and uh people trusted us on that, and I also yeah, I don't know, I don't really have a pitch other than that.

I think it's really important, and it's something that is it's it's one of our core jobs, so it's not a fun, exciting new idea, but I think it may be the biggest single job we do every year, and that this is really important here to you know, reckon with these constraints, which I think are pretty real, and start thinking as soon as possible about how to get there.

Um how does this fit with item H on our agenda?

Which is the budget process?

Budget development.

Oh, I think it fits there also.

Right.

So and and are there specific things like on page three?

Is that is it part of the display?

I have thoughts about process and other stuff, but as far as you know, planting a flag on a priority prior, what I'd like it to accomplish.

I think it's more the high level on that statement that to me this is my number one priority for the year.

We're not really a close number two right now.

So I will uh are you please?

So with that in mind, I think the only way to lower that budget is to increase revenues, so I would like us to actively be seeking like revenue and so this is your big idea.

It's my big idea.

I mean, yeah, it's not that it hasn't been spoken before, it's not an original idea.

I just got mechanisms that I'd like to roll out to see how we can achieve that.

So increase revenues.

Do you have specifics?

What do you have specifics?

Specific ideas in part of your big idea.

Oh, I've got a lot of specifics, and John talked about about one of them with uh you know gas tax revenue.

Um selling uh parcels of land to uh replace money spent out of the rainy day fund that we own that are um in town.

Um let's see here wanted to sort of explore some short-term rental taxes.

I'm not a hundred percent, I haven't done a lot of research on that, but as far as I know, there's uh I know there's been a lot of uh like verbos and and Airbnbs uh things out there, and I don't know that that is being tapped.

Um trying to figure out ways to um lessen the burden on on Brattleboro and get it more from sort of those outside influences that can add to our tax base.

Um I think I think uh other municipalities have done similar short-term rentals, so yeah, we can look into that.

I think uh well, I was talking to uh one of the select board people in uh in the Wilmington and another one that was over, and this is sort of where this idea sort of stem from I guess I ask the moderator, is this a time where we also discuss the presented, or is that is it are they just is it just the ideas or not, and then we debate them later?

Um it's a chance to you know bring the ideas out, ask the questions, kind of clarifying not really to debate, but to you know, just kind of make sure that you're understanding is some of his ideas.

So you know, like the increasing some of his ideas are you know, you could argue maybe it's getting into the weeds, but I think it's like important to understand what Peter's thinking about.

Yeah, so uh you know, creating uh like some some TIFF districts as well, you know, for um for enticing business in that might not um yield us stuff in the short run, but in the long term, uh grow the gram list there, um making sure that local business that we retain um some local business as well as helping them to expand.

Um, so some of that can be uh done through TIFS.

Um see here.

I guess state revenue sharing would sort of fall into this category if it could be done, right?

Um yeah, I mean I I think you know, some of this is above our purview.

Uh some of this is right right within our purview.

Some of this will require some some help on the high, and uh some of it we'll be able to roll out ourselves, and you know, like the selling of municipal lots that we have that we're not doing anything to sell those, hey, whatever you get paid on those fine, and then it return re uh returns them back to the grand list as far as taxable taxable income.

Whatever you get paid on those fine, and then it return uh re uh returns them back to the grand list as far as taxable taxable income.

So kind of double dipping.

That's a nice one.

Um one thing I'm not clear on with that is can we just do that as a board, or does that need to go to a uh to an RTM?

I think it needs RTM.

Which we're or selling of municipal lots.

Yeah.

But that's on a case by case basis when there's a lot to sell.

I guess a specific project.

Yeah, but we would bring it to bring it as a warrantal item, I guess.

Can I ask a revenue question?

I'll try and give you a revenue answer.

Okay, it might it might be for John too.

Um EMS revenues seem to be up.

What options do we have there?

I assume most of the insurance payments, those are all negotiated, right?

So if we increase our what we charge, it doesn't affect those.

Correct.

So the only control we really have would be over people who are paying themselves.

Does that sound right?

Um it's okay for it to be for me to agree with certainly it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it uh so the rate that the select board charge there has a lot largely been paid for by the private insurance company.

So that's kind of where the I think if that was higher than what we had originally estimated.

There was more participation based on the rate that the select board approved.

So increasing it further than that, I don't know.

That that would start to be, you know, you you'd want to look at that, maybe comps or something like that, but potentially we could look at sure.

It's just about become a big revenue stream, and particularly insurance companies are paying for it.

Yep.

It's fine with it.

Yeah, it's more amount of that there's more cases, like the fire department is busier than we can do.

Yeah, that'd be yeah, that's another piece of it.

Sure.

And and the Medicaid and Medicare, those rates are set if that's that's reimbursement.

And they're gonna be problematic in the future.

So I just I I think private I think private insurance are similar, that there is a some negotiated rate and you can charge a million dollars and they'll still just pay you.

So that's why I was asking, are there even areas where if we adjust our rates we make more money?

But I think you know, maybe one of the ways if we were looking to fold in EMS, and this comes to a complete capacity issue, so it might not be a non-starter is the um the transport, right?

So, you know, there's a lot of money, and I know that that's billed very differently.

So if you just need to get somebody from hospital A to hospital B or from home to hospital or something like that, and it's a non-emergency transportation.

There is, I believe, a larger fee equated with that.

I don't know that we want to get into sort of this emergency Uber business.

I don't uh I think the con I think the hospital has a contract with rescue for that, so that's separate.

So oh, they do.

Oh, all right.

I wasn't I wasn't sure how that I I knew that there was something something there, but yeah, that would definitely be kicking a hornet's nest.

I have a couple questions.

One is for process question.

So say our big ideas, say Peter's big idea, not just with one of my smaller ideas.

Can we join them together for that final vote?

Yep.

I am unwilling to play.

Okay, so that was my process.

And the other money you got.

Then the more technical question is if there are uh for a property tax for a property sale, that would be town-owned property.

How does the tax structure work in terms of like capital gains tax on the accrual of that and what what a town pays in terms of income received?

We don't we wouldn't pay a capital gains tax, so we'll have to sell out for free.

So it's a property if if a municipality owns a property and they sell it a hundred percent of that revenue aside from loan fees and all that stuff goes to the town, the town.

Okay, yeah.

It would go to the general partnership.

Directly to the job.

Yep.

Is that a charter?

Like that's just a BLC and government, yeah, some government stuff.

Yeah, okay.

In the state of Vermont.

I would just want to take out of Peter's idea, uh the revenue sharing, because I think that's it be its own thing.

Well, I think that that's uh, you know, that's a larger, more difficult conversation.

So yeah, I mean that the things that I'm proposing are things that I think we can handle on a local level, although I'm completely getting a lot of sort of mixed message about the gas tax.

I think we can we can float this idea up and hope that it passes, but I think it has to start here, no.

That I'm not sure.

Maybe I think that you know, there's like this conversation and our big ideas now, and and then later in the day we're talking about how we're going to present our ideas and our priorities to the legislators.

Right.

So that's it's kind of a two-part question.

I'd like to circle back a little bit about the VRBO, Airbnb situation.

Um if that was a choice that we wanted to pursue, I think that there would have to be a large public comment period and a and a real study.

Mostly because we have a we don't our hotel our our opportunities for lodging for visitors are currently in a little bit of a flux.

And the Airbnb part of Brattleboro has really been holding that lodging responsibility and keeping those tax dollars in the state of Vermont versus the Chesterfield Inn or the Riverside Inn or anything like that.

And so I think a real study would probably need to have it to see if that was appropriate.

Because Brattlebrough is very different from Wilmington.

When we have something for Andover, I think Dover has something like 80% second homes in their general in their grand list.

So I don't confirm Bradle or it's much higher than Russia.

And so I just would hope that if it's part of the conversation that if there's just some real study of it.

I I was gonna say I I'm gonna I know it was brought up as a potential revenue source, so I'm gonna kind of stick the short-term rentals in the parking lot.

But the planning commission did do a study probably two years ago.

We looked at the numbers, they made the case and decided at that point they didn't want to do a registry or have anything.

I can share that.

I mean, of course, that's open for reconsideration, but it was something that came out of the housing action plan.

So they did look at it.

So it's in I can share it.

Cool.

But yeah, I think it's not in the housing study, but there's some data.

Housing people, the consultant said that there wasn't that enough in Brannaborough to be significant, right?

Yeah, I just real quickly because I don't I don't we can have this it's getting a little off weedy off topic, little weedy.

Um there can be various different reasons that you might want to regulate a short-term rental.

Sometimes it's the impact on your housing stock, sometimes it's the nuisances that may be come that skiers or our towns tend to see, and that's part of their interest.

Um, it depends on what you're trying to get at.

Um what the study found is there was not a significant impact of short-term rentals in Brattleboro.

Um that you know, it they they did recommend you could look at a registry, which maybe could bring in some some funding, but just to kind of keep track of it over time.

Right.

And then the planning commission did some programs.

So when when I was drilling in going through ideas and um these things, you know, I don't I don't know what the overall impact is on.

I mean, do you does your place Airbnb anything else?

I do, yeah.

We have an Airbnb.

The state just increased um our tax by three percent exclusively for short-term rentals.

Um they do not charge that to hotels or other um like which their typical bed and breakfast.

So that extra surcharge just has been delivered by the state.

Um is that that's on top of the sales tax and meals tax?

That's rooms and meals plus the three percent for getting more state revenue.

Okay.

Um that got voted in I think the last it was the last biennium.

Um there was a lot of pushback from the tourism community um, most especially in regions like ours where we are a tri-state region, that you could come for an event, but maybe it's more attractive to stay over in Bernston or over in New Hampshire.

So I think our tri-state region really makes us unique in that tourism aspect where we really read dollars, big dollars, um, and that we need.

So let's set the the short-term rental.

Parking in the parking lot.

Um I know it's part of like you know, it's if the idea of increasing rental part of my revenue idea is to charge for parking.

Yeah, I was gonna say we're not it still can be an idea that's considered under increased.

So I think again, these are all sort of this like spitball ideas.

I was not aware of the the the three percent, so that seems like that's gonna get a little bit more unwieldy.

Um so maybe that is something that just we put in the packet department.

People forget about it.

I don't matter to me.

Like I said, I think the idea is the only way to really kind of help lower taxes is to increase revenue, increasing the grand list, inviting more business in that makes sense for the region.

Um and and that will eventually lower it.

And I know that there has been some work done by the BBC C to do this.

Um I'm gonna be honest with you, I haven't had but maybe three conversations with people there about it and and what what can be done, but this to me seems like the easiest way to help with um help with our budget as far as getting that number lower is being able to disperse and share it through a greater population, whether a business, whether residential, but I mean we this town hasn't grown at all since like 1950, so it's been like sort of stuck um like 10 or 15 up or down of of the 12,000 100 number for a long, long time.

So, you know, it would seem um selling the town as a whole as a place to come and buy business that business friendly put up smokestacks, but um, you know, things that make sense.

Does increase revenues do you think that is does that accurately capture what you just said though?

So I want to want to make sure I could I mean accurately, you know, I don't know.

I mean I'm I'm I guess I was hearing two things.

I was hearing one trying to increase revenues to you know lessen the burden on taxpayers, but then I also heard you know, trying to grow the grant list.

Well to me that that's sort of like a revenue generating thing, right?

So if we you know um I know that the the vacant building ordinance is like part parcel to that, right?

So if we can we can get a vacant building populated um that maybe wasn't in in the tax base back in the tax base, know that that is there's not a lot of them, that's a plus.

So to me it all generates revenue, but yeah, I see what you're saying.

There's sort of two different things.

Kind of growing the grand list is one initiative, whereas increasing revenues through the now parked Airbnb.

You were just spitballing.

Well, you were just spitballing.

Yeah, spitball, that's all.

I got lots of stuff on this list.

I'm inclined to to separate them.

Okay.

Um I don't know how the rest of you feel about that.

To add grow the grand list.

Well, I think there are two, I mean they're two different disciplines, two different focuses.

I think they're great focuses, but I do think that they're kind of different.

Um that if they're combined, that might lose the oof of either one of them.

I think they're just stick with that okay.

I think I think increasing revenues happens a lot faster than growing the brand list.

So I think one is a long-term grind.

Did you have a no it's it's interesting because if you know, if you split that into two and you add uh economic development, then all of our goals would be you know get the relief of the taxpayers.

All of them.

And I don't have a problem with that.

There's a certain consistency, but um I think we're all focused on the same thing.

Oh, just that I'm getting out of the increase revenues apart from taxes is the part that kind of like Oscar said without making the drawers of long term expenses.

I think the increase revenues if I'm following you.

Um, not raising taxes.

Yes, but in increasing the revenues, we're decreasing the burden on the taxpayer.

What's the that's what's my point?

Yeah, I'm just saying you could if I saw increase revenues, you could someone said that okay.

No, we should just increase taxes but twenty, you know, 20% tax increase.

Yeah, that's not the point is that we're looking at alternative.

This is completely the combat.

Exactly.

And I just wanted in looking up there, I think however it goes, if we end up deciding with the one, we want to have that spelled out that we're we're talking about the up outside of increasing without increasing property taxes, I guess.

Yeah, well, so that's my point that this both of those things, and if you split it into two, the other half is similar to grow the grand list is ultimately to reduce the taxes.

And if you added my revenue sharing, there we go.

Here's another one then.

So, you know, and and I think the uh this may this may go into our second to the last things on our orange in the weeds a little bit.

Yeah, but uh, you know, doing things like um the three percent increase that you're feeling now through Airbnb out mandated by the state, which all goes back up to the state.

Nothing stays here, even though our resources are being tapped.

Is this thing that I think we always sort of have to kind of keep at the front of our money?

Our roads, the Airbnb that is rented here in Brattleboro utilizes all of our services while those people are here, or none of them, depending, right?

But they're passing over our roads, they're they're you know, using using our waterways, they're doing whatever.

So these are our resources.

So it would be interesting to have a conversation legislatively speaking as to how some of that money could be returned back to Bradley Road.

So maybe that's the way we do it without increasing.

And then that's a revenue sharing idea.

Yeah.

I mean, people, you know, property owners pay property taxes, and those property taxes take care of you know, the roads and the emergency services and here um it's it's not an uh yeah, but we should we can go into the weeds another time about it.

Um the realistic picture in where we are here in Brattleboro is that some people will do a short-term rental on part of their property that they live on so that they can pay their property taxes, especially retired people.

It's an it's an economic generator so that they can stay in their home.

So it's very nuanced.

It's very nuanced when we go into camps of Airbnbs are killing our hiring housing stock and all this stuff.

Maybe some places it is.

I don't think you're incorrect.

You know, I mean, keeping in mind that Wyndham County is like the second oldest county in the state of Vermont and like the fourth poorest the county.

So, you know, what you're talking about has some merit.

Sometimes you've got to rent off a piece of your property just to make it due.

Maybe you're on a fixed income.

Maybe you don't have a lot of money to begin with.

So, you know, I definitely don't want to.

Maybe you have to pay the grain bill.

That's what it's like on forum.

So let's move on from the short-term rentals, Oscar.

I just so just a question.

Um are the small ideas also going to go up on the board, and then we'll pick from all of those.

Okay.

Um, yeah, I just I think it'll I think I'm gonna have an easier time visualizing the trade-offs if we get a bunch of stuff up there quickly, and then we can sort of talk about things relative to each other.

So maybe uh keep it a little more high level for now.

I just we ever considered time licenses.

I think just the right enough amount of time is there.

We did that.

Not too soon.

Um people talked about breaking Peter's idea into two, and I don't see that.

And I didn't really do that.

Um we get them all out.

Because it might be one of Peter's smaller ones later.

Yeah, let's get them all out and we'll we'll uh remember this one and make sure it's because something I think we should also talk about when they're all up there is there may be some that are really focused, and there may be some that can be that can be split up or that are 10 things and realistically we can't do over the course of the year, so I think maybe we could do that.

Well, I mean, when we're talking about increased revenue, like I I rattled off like four or five things.

Right, right, right.

So, you know, like but so I think with that we would try to pick the one that's gonna be the easiest for us locally to implement and move forward.

All right, do we have more big ideas?

Okay, do you have one?

Oh, we're not going around the circle.

Do we want to?

We did it because Oscar went first.

I know, and I the only reason I went was because we don't have to go around whoever's revenue.

But before we can go around.

Okay, I think I might have this because she kind of slipped it up.

I don't think the one that I'm thinking about is the financial responsibility and health of our town.

This has been a topic of conversation that came up at representative town meeting.

We spent all of uh most April, multiple meetings about the on the budget.

Um, and we set a policy of maintaining the reserve reserve fund that's 10% of the annual budget and achieve that incrementally over the next 10-15 years.

And we also said that we would produce a five-year financial plan, a five-year capital infrastructure plan, and a 20-year, 25-year capital equipment replacement plan in addition to the FY27 budget.

So I'm thinking this is this takes some work, this takes some focus.

But we have left open the possibility of revisiting that and coming back and actually hiring a finance director, thinking about what would we need in order to make that an ongoing position?

Is that something we want to do?

If we think about the costs of the roads just to maintain them, that you know, we've been my understanding is that there's a higher ideally we'd be putting more money into our roads in terms of the for bicycles, for cars, for pedestrians, and that one to be able to maintain them to save money potentially down the road, looking at what is the financial impact of not doing more.

Um I know the DPW has done a lot to fill these potholes this spring, and winters around here can be a little rough on the roads.

Um and there's work being done on you know Canal Street and more on Route 9 land, right?

But thinking that that is a potential connected to financial responsibility health.

Um and then also thinking about the finance committee from RTM.

How do we they always come out with these reports and these recommendation?

How do we integrate that or look their input or have meeting with them to see use them as a partner in helping achieve and maintain financial responsibility and health?

So seeing that is really fundamental.

Like I would love to see a whole lot of things in our town.

Um probably things that personally I'm more excited about than making sure we're in a good financial position for the future.

But I think that's the most important in terms of our responsibility and what we can do to enable all the great things that we want to do in the years to come.

So Sue is writing financial responsibility and health.

So just sort of a general focus on improving our practices and drug rails and stuff like that.

Yeah, and particularly um financial doing the things that we said we would do this spring in terms of financial planning, reserve fund maintenance, um, financial, and then also uh getting a finance investing in a finance director, um, and then the road maintenance and working with the finance committee.

I'm I think you won't get a margin from anything.

I'm just thinking they're all great.

My concern is that it's we're gonna give ourselves some time because FY27 budget development is already being discussed.

I think it's like we could just develop that FY27 budget.

Well my first of all, my sense is that a lot of this discussion that we're having today is the idea is that it would affect what our priorities and where we put our resources for the FY27 budget.

And my thought is talking, bringing it up now is thinking about it not just in terms of the FY27 budget as this independent thing, but thinking about and not thinking about you know, we we set this policy as we had like okay, quick discussion, we voted on it, yeah, we're all in agreement, we should do these things, but then how do we actually make that happen?

And actually put making this putting some attention and my father's actually putting it on that list of three to five priorities could help not having it to be one more thing or some this is a big lift and wanting to give it the attention that I think there.

Questions?

No questions, but can I do you mind if I just join in your sandbox for a minute?

So I'm new at this, you know, obviously.

So there's the smart budgeting you're talking about, but there's also smart spending.

And also um careful spending.

And I think those two go hand in hand.

The budget process, but also the careful spending piece.

Like John joked at me today, I was like, are there snacks?

And he goes, well, it's really not in the budget, but Jessica probably says and so that kind of got this kind of thought in my head, which is like there's one thing when you budget, but then there's also the smart spending, which is the purview of things we approve on the select board, or um and and more conversations that I think is really important as well.

Um so just wasn't that next.

My idea is kind of fun.

Mind if I go?

Go.

Um so uh the idea that I would like to explore that the select board um for the select board to explore would be uh kind of bringing back a program that was around in 2019.

I heard a lot of feedback about it, some positive, some negative, some tweaking it.

Um it would be a day labor program that we um work with uh nonprofit in the community, uh whether it's an existing nonprofit or um a regional one.

Um basically the address the the goal would be there are a lot of people in downtown Brattleboro hanging out, um and would that they would benefit very much from something to do.

Um, and they would also probably benefit from earning some money to do something.

Um and there are a lot of um jobs in terms of um that we aren't necessarily um able to do because of the capacity um of different departments, but what we you know need, and um so it could act as a a job training program.

It could all it could offer it could be tied into restorative justice potentially if that's the choice.

Um but it basically so feedback I got from an individual who works for food works, Sparta Groundworks, is that they interact with a lot of people who say I'm so bored.

Like I wish I had something to do.

I don't have anything to do.

So they're in this funny position.

Many are young and able-bodied, and would actually really benefit from some kind of work program.

Um that could turn into job training that could turn into them potentially getting a job that's um not in a format like this.

And I um I asked John because Boulder had a program like this, um, to to sort of give me feedback on the efficacy of a well-designed program that was a collaboration with the municipality, and it sounded like it was successful there.

Yeah, very successful there, yeah.

They uh there's a nonprofit there that their focus is on taking people from a situation where they're unemployed, homeless on the street, and how do you build skills so that they can then do a uh very simple job to start with and then graduate to a crew that's doing more complex work and then eventually to become someone who's employed.

I think they have a great rate of success with that program.

It's all really rooted in their training and their supervision, those are like the two key things that they provide.

So that's my idea.

I did get some feedback about the previous program we had.

I understand it was a pilot project.

Um there was the town was a lot more flush to fund $65,000 this project.

Um we are not in a in a flush state right now, so that would be part of the collaboration design.

My understanding is it was necessary to be connected to a nonprofit for holding the liability insurance of the individual indoors which is now interaction.

Yes.

Um and um, and then I got some feedback from people who were very actively engaged with it, like Dick Degray, who actually took on um some workers to do beautification, read the sidewalks, paint, retain walls, stuff like that, and said there were parts of it that worked in that model, but there was a lot that didn't work out great, like how people signed up and um was kind of first come first serve, and people were coming at like 4 30 in the morning, and so it sounds like there's a lot of um there is a lot of knowledge within the community still to potentially resurrect this this a program.

I guess I think town um was the major employee.

Do you know more?

Uh just I heard star and DPW, I think also had some I don't know if it was going to be a recommended idea.

But I you know that's um it might it might be worth exploring whether there's grants and and or state money to do that without having to be municipal money.

Certainly exactly.

That's why the big explore idea is at the beginning of this.

Oh, I didn't know the fact it's explore.

It's not like we should do this, it's more like let's explore it, let's see how we could potentially afford it, finance it, who to work with.

And and also I'm thinking more specifically about um tasks that are um that are physical labor, actually.

And I I I you know we can certainly talk to Emily Connors or about it if this are the program for 2019.

And you know with your position in the legislature, she might be able to identify quickly identify whether there's any state funding for something like that.

Did you have a comment?

Otherwise, I was gonna do this along.

Oh, just uh no we could go.

But I like I like the fact that I knew it would be it was clear that it would be tricky, and I don't think it went on without problems, but I thought, yeah, I think it's a really interesting idea.

It's I think like COVID really smashed it.

That makes sense.

COVID COVID smash.

I think I think it was the town that was the only kind of um player.

There were a couple, there were a handful of others, but but the long term consistency consistency.

Yeah, I think um it would be nice to um just to explore that and with maybe taking a read uh in one radical and seeing whether they have you know, for example, maybe the housing authority or somebody like that.

Yeah, yeah, maybe even form a subcommittee that's yeah, connected with various organizations, right?

So brainstorm, but I do want to talk about my big idea.

The thing I was gonna say, I think most of these things probably have explore at the front of them, really, at this point.

Like no very few of these are coming up with like in here's my 20 page project plan or something like that.

So I think most of them will be explorer.

We might prioritize stuff and then find out two months like uh it's not really the right time to move on, and that's okay.

So we can do that with the FY27 budget.

Yeah, we'll just do our next explorer.

All right, let's just go explore.

Um, my idea uh as I discussed, because it was last year's idea, um is is actually the one that really wasn't worked on that much last year, uh, because we have bigger fisheries, but it's so important, and um you know, there's there's just a there's a I want to explore revenue sharing.

I want to I want to understand revenue sharing.

Last year I got from the legislators uh white paper they did on revenue sharing and patrioty mature.

I it's not comparable.

Their understanding revenue sharing isn't comparable with what other states do.

And I think um I would like to continue to explore and educate the community about what revenue sharing can be.

And I know there were some really interesting ideas that uh David Gardens brought to our attention.

Um it could be you know, the taxes that we already have, you know, the one percent is the perfect example, whether there's any other like the gas tapes and so forth, but then there really could be um some other ideas like um railroad property and state lands and federal lands, and because I think we're going to really need to look hard for money, not only because of our own situation, but because of the federal situation that will be coming up.

We're gonna need um to really look hard for any opportunity that we have to get revenue anywhere.

So that remains my focus.

Um I think um, you know, we've had a certain amount of uh discussion in the past year, but uh it does need to continue.

Um okay, so we are the question.

Go ahead.

This may be a totally out-of-the-box question, but are there any examples of regional um revenue sharing amongst states?

Yeah, there are interstate compacts for usually for things like uh sharing water across state lines.

There's oftentimes ways to that states have been done that I'm aware of um where one state may be paying another to offset some use of water or something like that.

So yeah, I think it's it's doable, but that's a state level issue, usually not a municipal one.

Um here's a language that I wrote last year to work with our state legislators and other hub towns to provide funds to our general fund to reduce tax disparity of hub to spoke towns.

So, you know, it's it's like it's just like that same old conversation that we had about the one percent.

It's like our town is a hub town.

We don't do anything for that, but it doesn't serve us in any way.

It's it's a burden, and we need to have people on understand that and get some revenue for for not only our hub town, but all the hub towns.

What burden?

That's what I was gonna say.

Here's my other question.

Do you formally do you think of your idea as being a collection of towns advocating or a concept in the legislature?

So not just Braddle Burba, but also other hotels rather than including lakes, like situated towns working with BLCT, you know, VLCT when we develop the one percent, they're like, yeah, well, that's it, you're done.

And they need to explore more, and I'd like to explore more time.

And we probably want multiple traffic, like where there's there's a strategy for what we pursue on our own and also the things we pursue with a group that we have less control over and things like that.

Exactly.

Yes.

Um so we are running behind now.

So we can take five minutes and then come back and do the others, um, your other ideas, or we can kind of run through them.

What about what if we just got them all up on the board now and then we can think about it on the break?

That's good.

Okay with that.

All right.

Um, so we'll just if you can popcorn them out if you have more ideas, you don't have to have three more if you have some more and you want to add them up to the board.

I have a revenue idea that would tap into yours.

Um, and this is very specific.

The covered bridge in West Brattleboro, a lot of people stop to take their pictures at it.

Um my idea would be that we invest in increasing the sort of the garden space, manicuring the space, um, and rent it for events, small events, we'd have to explore the memorial park covered bridge.

The memorial park covered bridge in West Crowd.

Um it's actually Dick De Gray's idea.

If he's watching I think it's a great idea, um, and something he's been unifying now for a long period of time with lights in the winter, all that stuff, we'd have to address capacity issues, parking, the route of pedestrians, and that kind of thing.

But it's a bridge we own, and it's really pretty, and um, and it could generate revenue.

We could charge by the hour, $500 an hour.

You're really charging for a public space.

Well, that's why we've talked about it.

Are you gonna charge the common if it wasn't well we do charge for the common?

Yeah, we definitely to rent it.

So if you wanted to have a wedding platform or uh retirement party, or um if your organization wanted to do, but this is what I think would be so great about it, is that people would like use social media to be like Brownborough Vermont, click, and then how much positive awareness of that is out in the world.

So great, that's right.

Yeah, yes.

Thanks.

I don't know what I did.

Other ideas?

Are we just throwing them all out?

Yeah.

Um the uh exploring the I'm not gonna say exploring every time, but the idea of uh setting up the town so that we can take donations if we want to.

There are some towns that do this, and that was brought up at RTM.

Yeah, and who knows?

I have no idea.

Maybe it would never happen, but I think there are a lot of people with money in this community.

They donated.

It would be great if it would be another.

A legacy bracket.

Is that what the right kind of aim for it?

Like people could put us in their will.

Yes, right.

So I assume it would take some kind of structure.

Jade for the town to be able to do that.

Trying to get David's will?

Or okay.

The town.

Nothing personal.

I have a way, but no will.

For lack of better terms, I'm going to use the town to take donations.

So take financial donations.

Charitable Brattleboro GoFundMe page.

Should I just go through my two or three and then I can't remember, I have no memory of where this came from.

It might have been you, but who can say?

Setting up the town in well, really all I'd like to do is develop the town's capacity, like a little structure around the town's capacity to use volunteers and to use these sort of like low-priced semi-volunteer consultants because people are much happier to donate their time than to be charged on a tax bill.

We have tons of engaged people who I think would go for it.

And that's a way that you know that that turns into money on the other end.

So I think uh some sort of and some kind of structure.

What I mean by that is something that's a little easier to navigate than just we have to reach out to people we know who we think would be a good fit, or someone has to just have the bright idea and email town staff.

I don't really have what but I John, I feel like I remembered you, or some maybe it was at one Brattleboro talking about a city, I think, that had set up some really sophisticated way for um handling volunteering.

And we wouldn't need to go crazy.

We're we're a small little town, but that it had been incredibly successful.

Um after World War II or during World War II, uh they were people called dollar year men, and they were rich industrialists, and they volunteered their time to President Roosevelt for the war effort.

Okay.

And um I've been talking about that as John has set that up with various people to do various tasks that an assistant town manager would do, and I think it's a wonderful idea.

Uh but I also think it's underway.

Yeah, that may be so so it's just a refinement, like you're asking for it's more like uh I think just it it's formally out there now.

This is a thing we're gonna open ourselves up to a little bit more.

Yeah, we have John's been doing it.

Um it's like it's something yeah, do we want to make it a little more public?

Do we want to start looking harder internally for like other places we could do this, which I'm sure you're already.

There were a lot of people out there with some time and capacity.

Well, we should do this.

Really fortunate to have a very uh educated and and engaged public.

And so you're saying take it out of the realm of creating problem solving where it is now into something that's enough.

I don't I don't quite have a pathway for it, but something like it would be great to look back in a year and say, oh, we've got two more of these people doing this, and a bunch of people are helping um as bathroom monitors and copy attendance at the library.

That was something Star had mentioned that they could earn this for.

Oscar's been thinking about it.

Yes.

Um so looking back in a year and seeing that we're doing more of this than we are now would be cool because I think it's a great resource.

And so and so with that, you're thinking about formalizing it in terms of things like um getting the town lawyer on it to be like what kind of liability is there, and should we make sure that our whatever kind of contract is?

I would be happy to think we've done that.

Yeah, yeah.

If if it's all where it needs to be and it's fine, that's great too.

But just if it's still sort of like ad hoc each time we're figuring it out as we go.

But I would happily like whatever thoughts you had, or if you felt the select board could do something to make that easier.

Yep.

So expand on that program.

Yeah, where it fits.

And I think kind of bringing up two interesting parts.

It's like, you know, Tom Franks is exploring part, and that's expertise.

And and uh it's probably a bitch the library might have or can easily gather their volunteers because they have volunteers, but your two ideas for the library were great.

So it's it's kind of like a a two-tier activity that you're talking about.

So it's it's kind of like a a two-tier activity that you're talking about, and like the expertise for John on the one hand, and the library volunteers on the other, but there might be public work volunteers or rec department voluntaries.

And I know it gets tricky with doing work that union employees, all that stuff.

So that um and those library things are specific because Starr mentioned to me that those are things where sometimes one of the whatever three librarians on staff will have to stand at the coffee machine with somebody for 20 minutes because that person needs help.

So that would free those people up for other things.

Um and then last idea, I will be quick on this one, but I think we should consider uh this is something other towns and by considered, you may explore.

I'd rather we consider that we as a board considering up a budget committee separate from the finance committee that sort of reports to us.

I think it would have a bunch of different benefits.

One is just capacity for us during the budget process where we could say, we have a question.

Um where right now I might just ask somebody I know and say, hey, you have a lot of free time.

Will you would you be willing to research this for me or give me your thoughts?

Um so it's somewhere where we could toss uh questions or work.

It's also somewhere where ideas could come from because we're all pretty smart, but there's only five of us, so um, it could take some capacity off of town staff in terms of thinking about things, it basically do what the finance committee does, but instead of from an outside sort of oversight perspective, more collaborative and helping us up front.

And then I think another benefit of it to us would be that if we include the kind if if we include interested people early on, we can get their ideas up front and maybe incorporate them instead of hearing them at town meeting as someone saying here's why you should vote no, or something like that.

So I think we get benefits in a couple different areas.

So just floating in.

Um that's great.

I've I John Dready um made an arrangement with Ernest Coplin to be that volunteer to provide that type of service.

So I like the idea of having an individual rather than a committee, because committees are kind of cumbersome, and I wouldn't want to have the finance committee think that we're pushing someone in there in in the way.

Sure, I I don't Ernie's a great guy for that role.

Um I don't think it would when I was on the finance committee, I don't think I would have perceived it that way because it doesn't it's not like if we had another committee to provide a competing report to the finance committee report and say, here's actually our opinion on everything, that would be a little different.

But just getting a group of people involved up front to share the load, I think is good.

And the only reason I think I prefer a committee over an individual is because uh it's more cumbersome, but you get a better representation of uh what people think.

You get a better cross-section of political beliefs and values and things like that.

So it might have more like legitimacy is the word, but but what Ernie says will be Ernie's personal opinions, what a committee comes out with is has gone through a little more of a crucible.

I see you guys talking about two different things.

One, there's like a cost-benefit analysis perspective, which I think they're coming from, like the most efficient use of time, an experienced person who can target a research element or something, and you're talking about more of a process-oriented thing.

They're both valuable, they're just kind of different.

That makes sense.

Um yeah, so yeah, I I think that's sort of an answer to Amanda, but Oscar, are you saying that this committee is more like a political advisor to the board, or you said research, and then it was like having a range of ideas range of perspectives, so that's starting to sound more like a political advisor.

Is that what you're thinking you need, or that the select board needs, or no, not a uh I mean anything to do with the budget is going to impinge on political concerns, right?

Like and so but yeah, I think it would have a creative uh and a brainstorming element to it.

It would be very analogous to the work that the finance committee does, except it would happen first, and it would happen collaboratively and essentially at the direction of the select board.

But yes, it would be people saying, hey, we think you guys should look at this.

We think here's a model we found in another town, here's some analysis we did, and we would also send things the committee's way in terms of hey, we wanted to explore a couple options.

Would you guys take a look at this versus that?

Things like that.

You know, it's really interesting because I've been to charter commission meetings, and they're now exploring what if there's no RTM.

Right.

And what would happen if we can make it?

And Isaac just did exactly more or less what you're saying in that the finance committee becomes this advisory committee to the select board so that we can work with them during the budget process and really work with them rather than a hearing, as you just said, at the later time frame.

So we have an opportunity to do just that with the charter.

That's true.

I mean, for me, I'd rather have both personally.

I think the oversight role is still really valuable.

So and I think if uh if the charter switched it, I knowing I suspect that a citizen finance committee would quickly emerge and make its own opinions known in in a similar way.

I think that sort of oversight role has become pretty important to people.

So I'm just floating it up there for the board.

I would, you don't I might say budget committee just so there isn't extreme confusion, but thank you.

I think it could help.

Other ideas that we want to put up on the board.

I've got more?

Okay, you go.

Okay.

So one is expanding shelter for people in our community, and particularly looking in the case of extreme weather, um, thinking about the cold weather when it gets extreme cold.

Um that would be something that any resident of Bradloro be able to access who is in need of warmth and in on cold, particularly on cold nights.

Um, and then a second part of that shelter access would be access to support for people who are in addition to shelter any any needs that people have that aren't getting met, and bringing the voices of unhoused people to being able to hear directly from people who are don't have shelter, hearing the voices at select board meetings, maybe it would be um organizations that work with people who are on house, making sure that the voices of those voices are in the room.

Do you see them all in this one thing, or are they three separate?

Okay, and this being the expanding shelter in the community, particularly in extreme weather, that's that's fine.

Okay.

The others are kind of like how you might have to it is the including voices of people who are closest to the issue, and then the access to support I feel like could go along as part of that.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

So are you talking about things like permitting more spaces for emergency housing or investment in emergency housing?

No, I think it would be I remember that one of the directions for this project was to think about what are the priorities rather than how would you achieve the priority.

And that would be something I think that would be important that there would be for the towns town staff to be able to think through about what we have to be for for us to consider, you know, it's it's part of our human, you know, part of our human services budget that we want to direct towards certain goals, for example.

Um that was one of the things I heard at RTM was some people saying, you know, it's it's great that we're that we're investing in uh you know, there's some really great organizations really great work, but we have to prioritize if we have limited funds.

I want to make sure that we're focused on those human services of meeting people's basic needs.

I want to make sure that we're focused on those human services of meeting people's basic needs, so that could be um part of the discussion.

Um you know in the years, and and I worked on on um for groundworks uh fundraising empty bowls, and I was on the board and so forth, and the thing that always bothered me about the state law for getting homeless was that the only funding that they had was for warming shelter.

And so now they've expanded the mantel program to be latter parts of the year, but the basic money that they have for shelters as a state responsibility is in the winter months, and so um groundworks um raised a lot of money so that they could build that shelter and and stamp it so that it could be year-round because the basic state law is for warming shelter.

So um I think the state law has already focused on your extreme cold example, and that's available.

I think what always troubles me is that the rest of the year, our state law says go camp on private property.

I mean that's that's the I think the problem with the state homeless law is they're telling people that they that the state of Vermont has no policy for the non-cold months, they have a policy for the cold months, they don't have a policy for the non-cold months, and that's where I see the gap.

And you know, Brattleboro has extraordinary services for the cold months and the non-cold months, because we have um groundworks and uh other shelters, we have the Montel program.

So I'm concerned that it's an overlapping service, what you're proposing because it's really a state responsibility, and the state does provide for warming shelter.

My understanding is that the state actually has not provided shelter for people that people have used in Brattleboro in the like at least last winter.

I was it last winter or the winter before when they opened that place up on Old Ferry Road, and like two people used it or something.

I mean, it was a real a real failure with the state resources, and then it was about doesn't seem like it was done with a whole lot of communication or coordination with local folks.

Yeah, but the warming money comes both the groundworks and no, go ahead, I'll let you, and then we're gonna forget in sweetie.

So one thing is that it's it's clear to clear to me that there has been a gap.

There are people who um the groundwork is at capacity, and that there 107 people just who are vulnerable, particularly vulnerable, just lost their shelter at the motel program on July 1st.

And so there is going there is a need for people who are facing lack of shelter.

Um, and so if you wanted to expand it to just expand you know, shelter in the com in the community, and um I mean particularly in extreme weather, but well, no, it's not because I think that Brattleboro is particularly disproportionate in the shelters that they that the state provides.

So I think we'll cut it there because we're not not here to debate it at this point just to because you all get a chips to vote.

So that was one of the things I have a couple more, but I don't know if we want to you want to take a turn and then come back.

Sure, I'll take a turn, yeah.

Um I want to, I mean, it's sort of like a it's a crossover of kind of green lighting, like you talked about at the very beginning of um in regards to the town plan because it's already in process, but really um have the opportunity to focus on the flat street rejuvenation project and get that particular place where we can actualize it.

I think that would I just it's very exciting to think about awakening that corridor, and um there's I know that there's already been movement towards whether it's the outside stage, the you know, you talked about the restoration, the West Zone, and um so really uh you know, seeking grants to actually make that happen.

Do you mean specifically the one we saw the plan for earlier?

Well, there's a lot of plans.

It's been in the I think the meetup are connected to the work through the planning department that you guys have been on that, and I just want to, it's not a new idea, but just to say, yeah, let's go.

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things with with flat street.

So there's the various iterations of something for Preston lot.

There is um DBA has been talking about a youth corridor there and and so I think if you take it in its broadest, it's like we want to put some attention to there's you know, there's some ideas for one-way traffic on uh flat street.

So yeah, and this comes out of a conversation here with DBA um of a real initiative that they were like fired up about and got me on board, and so I wanted to bring that here.

Okay, others so another one is the housing stock expanding or while we're the housing stock is available towards that meeting the 500.

I know that's work that's already happening, but just really articulating that, elevating that as a knowing that a lot of the challenges that we've talked about in terms of for instance homelessness in our community, um housing housing is quite the opposite of homelessness.

More stability that's better for our community.

Um so if we can do work to uplift the solutions that are in progress, I'd love to see that.

I mean, I might throw down that if this is an appropriate time about the Grammys expansion.

Is that the same with number two in parentheses?

No, I think we sort of talked about and agreed upon a much.

I didn't notice that that was up there, but um kind of treating those as two separate should we put child safety zones on here if we're gonna talk like compare priorities?

Yep, okay.

You want child safety zones?

I think that that math that the um you youth put together about safety zones, it's really in terms of student identified uh hot and cold things.

Yes, yeah.

And we should revisit that.

We're trying to Cassandra is up the one that she gave it to me more than they're trying to copy it.

Make it a digital map.

Great.

Okay.

That's great.

I have an analog map.

Um I've got one more of my three on my third one.

Anybody else have one that wants to do that?

Go ahead.

All right.

Um so a priority is a priority, but I think it's an important priority, is to um focus on the diversity of our business sectors to have a well-rounded economic community.

Um, and for me that starts with um an initiative to reach out to our larger um employers in Rattleboro to have a um a conversation with them, two select board members go out and meet with one of the maybe it's GS precision that's precision.

Um how can what can we learn about doing business in Brattleboro?

How can we make Brattleboro be a place where you want to stay in business?

And how can you network us with other companies that would maybe like to come here?

I know this is there is redundancy with BDCC in the work they do, but BDCC is also regional, it's not specifically Brattleboro, so this would be a Bradlebro initiative.

My hope would be that we get a round table of business owners of different sectors actually coming to do a select board presentation about doing business in Brattleboro.

It could be soft things like I'd love to be able for the employees that I hire, um, that they have a vibrant wreck and park system, things like that.

Some of it might reinforce what we're doing already, but it might help us prioritize getting this a well-balanced business economically viable town, um, which would in turn bring in more tax rate.

Can you repeat the first it was focus on diversity of business sector to um yeah, uh initiative to uh focus on a diversity of business sectors to have a well-rounded economic community as well.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Yeah, um the first one isn't really anything, but something you would want to say, and that is you know, in order for us to have um in economic development and all these good things that you're talking about.

I think we really need to, as a town, have basic municipal government concentrating on the fundamentals and you know, being in a town with um a good parking rack system and a town with you know good basic services and and also a town where the downtown safety action plan is vibrant, and so that we have a well-functioning town that we would all recommend, and um that's not any of those uh initiatives, it's just basic and and uh I think with our budget constraints, um having a basic um priorities for running a municipal government is worth worth saying.

Uh I don't think we need to vote on it, but um it's just a reminder that we're a town and we should be doing it.

Um and then the other thing is kind of um and kind of an adjunct to that.

If our state housing plan doesn't have money for non you know summer days, and they expect people to camp, maybe we should be saying to the population, you know, open up your home, acreage, whatever, because people are encouraged by the state of Vermont to keep up on private property, and what do people think about that?

You know, it's like we all want uh people to be in better circumstances, and you know, maybe there's some incentive that we can give people in our town to house people who need housing.

I don't know, John, if you have any idea what those incentive is.

Camping on private property with some sort of incentive that you would want us to explore that we're gonna put that one up there or something.

Yeah, I've just trying to the first the first one too.

Um just trying to figure out how to bring it back to base.

Focus on well-functioning municipal services that's been a vibrant is there a title that would incorporate both in pricing shelter and incentivizing I think this should be separate.

Um question, are you talking about financial incentives or tax breaks?

Or what are you talking about?

Yes, both of those, yes, yeah, whatever we from the town, or do you mean from the trying to get the state to offer whatever we export?

You know, because to me, I just think that it's um not well thought the state policy, the state law is not well thought out, and they've just um only care for people in the cold months, and so what is their plan for the non-cold I mean, yeah, and what do they what do they you know?

How can we incentivize all of everyone who says, gee, this is the circumstance that people find themselves in.

How can I help?

Well, this is how they can help I mean just a complete statement of the fact that we're just sort of offering up a tent as a solution to housing is a little bothersome.

It's peculiar.

Well, it is.

I mean, you go from providing them in the hotel room to ask them to exit the hotel room and handing them a tent.

People aren't even getting tents.

No, they weren't giving tents that they didn't even provide that, not even a sleeping bag will but I I will say you know, this is just me using my imagination, but I I think that sleeping in a tent is uncomfortable, but if you're doing it somewhere where you know you are allowed to be there as opposed to someone might try to flashlight in at any moment and tell you hey, get out of here.

I think that's a very different experience.

So and for me, I think not to get into the weeds of the but my big the big moral crisis for me is when you are the reason I can't the big reason I can't go along with the enforcement approach is that we're talking about people who have no there's no legal place if someone's gonna fall asleep and they don't own a red property, there's no place they can fall asleep without being somewhat liable for being woken up and moved.

So to me that is a huge moral problem.

So if it would be somewhat of a release valve, and I've talked to other people about this before, if there was some sort of legalized uh campground or or private camping options where people could at least have that baseline of hey, I know I can sleep here and not get harassed or my tent cut up or told to move along.

That would change the calculus for me.

Just just I'm sure that Chief Hardy has said this to us before, but um the Bradborough Police Department does not arrest people for being.

No, no, no, I know.

Um and and and what we were talking about enforcement before with the child safety zones, that's criminal activity.

Yes.

And I guess I just people often point to the sort of like visible disorder downtown on one hand and then point to policing as a remedy for that in part on the other hand.

And you're right that we don't Brattleboro basically doesn't criminalize intentionally doesn't criminalize a lot of the things that bother people, like the things people complain about at select board meetings, often those are things that I think you probably could get arrested for if you chose to be a town that was really you know, letter of the law do everything we can.

So um so those those people, somebody visibly camping or sleeping on a bench is still still means there will be people in town who are unhappy about that.

So if that person had a place where they could actually sleep, that could solve a lot of problems from a lot of different angles.

Not permanently, but yes, and I would just like to make the distinction between um you know, people who need to sleep outside and people who are uh drug trafficking and creating other crimes.

Oh, sure, yes.

You know, and one of the there's quite a distinction.

Absolutely.

And one of the uh yes, we're in the weeze.

Okay, thank you.

Go ahead, last word.

So um, you know, one of the misfortunate uh distinctions is that those people who are mischievous um often can be equated and attached to the people who are maybe in the same situation, but not being mischievous, and that's an unfair distinction.

That's true.

I think we all agree on that.

Oh, right.

Were you suggesting an additional item up there?

A public like camping.

No, I I think it's I no I I think it's it's sort of related to Liz's and I had off there.

I think there's a lot of the idea of the town doing it comes the town doing it comes with a lot of other questions.

The I so I have thought before of the idea of if there are people who have in fact I'm pretty sure I know people who do turn a blind eye, at least to people camping on their property, um, because of their personal beliefs about it.

So maybe that's an option that's less fraught, and maybe that conversation develops, but I think I'm okay with 17 as written.

Did everybody get up what they want to the three extras?

I'm feeling good about it.

You're feeling good.

Okay.

We're gonna take a break.

Let's take 10 minutes.

We're we are behind again.

Um just so you know, font size or numbering has no relationship to anything.

It's just I think they stayed pretty straight.

I haven't been able to pass anything because of Amanda for a while.

I have a question, sorry, a little slower.

Um so we there had been some discussion in this memo about legislative priorities, like we had that distinct list.

And I see there's some stuff here that like we've talked about how the legislative impact were we're gonna have a separate discussion about legislative priorities.

If we have time, yeah.

Item K.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And so there could be things that don't make you know the the three to five that you know maybe end up over there because they're there's both, or they're on both.

And and I will say, I mean, if if if that doesn't happen here today, there's no reason why it can't happen outside this as well.

So, you know, if we don't satisfied with the discussion we've had here today, then I mean unfortunately we can't do it outs off with more than one other of us, but I'm with I'm willing to be a part of it and I know what you're thinking as part of that conversation.

And I will I don't want to impose on anyone's schedule, but this is sort of a nice rare opportunity for us to just get to sit around and have a more normal conversation.

So if we end up wanting to go a little long, that's okay with me.

But I know everyone has their own stuff.

I think Summers are playing torture, maybe spoken like this.

But if it goes long enough that I then there's somebody covering planning commission.

Yeah, that's all taken care of.

So yeah, so let's take uh 10 minutes and now we've got to what eight minutes.

Eight minute of break.

All right, so the next thing that we're gonna do is um to rank your top, do you give you each of card?

Um, and to list in in order one being your highest priority one to five, which of these um ideas are you know your priority, basically, your individual priority, and then we'll kind of tally them to figure out if we can't narrow it down a little bit.

So you're each gonna have five input, and you want to rank them one being your top priority to five being your lowest.

So when we'll have a column that has one to five.

That is this number next to it.

You could do it that way.

Yes, yeah, that's why you can use the numbers, that's why I numbered them.

Oh could we make those letters as the numbers?

We can make them letters.

Or no, I want to watch you do the live.

But I know that there was a little bit, there was some questioning because what we weren't sure if you were ranking big ideas to the others.

So they're all they're all in the mix.

Yeah.

Unless you want to strike any to put up there.

Yes, that's so if you want to have that conversation while I or have some more conversation.

Any of them while I just alphabetize them.

Go ahead.

I just want to think in terms of you enjoying the erasing.

I was just like, well, I do took that opportunity to watch John suffer right away.

So my thought is just oh thank God.

It's just for this side of the table joke.

We don't have to understand.

It's changing the numbers to the letters.

It's so much easier for them to do their calculations.

Okay, that's all.

Okay.

Oscar had that.

Yes, my thought was just we've sort of we've been in sort of a brainstorming mode of putting everything up.

My concern is that there are things on here that are really specific and things that are really broad, and also some things where I'm not sure.

We have action items at the end.

When I'm ranking these, I would love to be able to think in terms of action items.

Um of them are sort of obvious, but I I remember feeling last year after the retreat.

Well, just from sort of the organization standpoint, it can be a little ambiguous if you choose a goal and nobody's quite sure how to act on it, or how to take next steps.

And I want to make sure that we're picking goals and also have something in mind for at least how we would start on those things, or what the first step would be.

So we're not just picking something that we would like to have happen, but we don't have any thoughts about how to actually get there.

As I'm looking down this list also, like I'm saying there's some redundancy built in to like some of the ideas of the we'll just use revenue generating.

Like there's a few two or three different things that would fall under that name.

Yeah, and and if we let's say we picked, let's say our number one priority was B, increase revenue.

What are we actually deciding with that vote when we then turn around to John?

Surely it's not going to be explore all five of those things.

So should it be more specific so that when we when we vote on it, it means John, we think a number one priority you should work on is researching a gas tax or something like that.

Because I don't want it to just be aspirational.

I want us to be able to have something we mean if I have an idea.

Okay.

How about we take so like increase revenues without increasing property taxes, and we make in parentheses all those items that fit into EC revenues?

Yeah, because the first A, B, C, maybe not D.

No, D was big.

Okay.

That all of those things are budget related.

Half of the things that we're talking about are budget related.

So we still have an agenda item about the budget.

Like, do we want to just move those into the budget discussion as assuming that they're a priority?

I wouldn't want to personally, I wouldn't want to leave it off the list of priorities.

I think I think Oscar putting that on there is basically saying to a few people who you know, this is a heightened awareness to say that we are committing, and here it is in writing that we've committed to it.

And like to be that's my number one priority personally, like with a bullet and um I would suggest that like increase revenues, E continue to explore revenue sharing G setting up town to take charitable financial.

Like those three could be grouped if that's sort of where you're going off or B, E, and I'm almost more interested in ungrouping though, because if we group them and then we vote for the group, just it just feels like at a certain point we bump into the amount of things we can actually make progress on.

But if we can only do three to five things, yes, and there's things in the first half, let's say all these budget things that we all support, then we're leaving good things off the list.

Right.

Well, I mean, sure, let me do like a really good let me give a a good example as as I see it, like uh B, my idea of increasing revenues, right?

Uh without increasing property taxes.

So part of part of my proposal is exploring a gas tax big heavy, gonna take a while.

But Amanda's idea to rent a covered bridge is probably something we could roll out before the end of summer, you know.

I mean, so right.

So there, you know, there's a scale right exactly to it.

I mean, um, you know, gas tax, if we get that through and we like the idea, that's gonna that's gonna that's gonna raise a lot of revenue, a lot, right?

So if if you know whatever it takes to get that through, that will be there for a long time.

But the the idea of renting the covered bridge for photo shoots or whatever is kind of one and done.

It's one and done at that point, but that's also kind of reoccurring revenue, but like what are we looking to get out of that?

So I don't think that we should cast it out because it's for that reason, like we were trying to look at it at the higher level.

I mean, the conversation I thought was useful because it gave some ideas of what you were thinking and helped build it out, but not actually put forward a work plan, which is not what we wanted you to do.

So some of it will be taking it back, John will take it back to others and say, you know, how how can we accomplish this?

Um, and then bring it back to the slide board.

Can we go back to Amanda's thought about adding things to the first one that are all budget related and see what we can include in this budget umbrella that John thinks the town can handle?

I mean, I'm okay with the idea of it it is okay with me for goals to be higher level.

That's a so if if one of our goals is you know, we want to have a different or or better budget process or something like that.

I I'm okay with that.

Um and then we sort of group things, and that way something that's important doesn't get lost.

It does it becomes a little harder to look back in a year and say, hey, we achieve this or not, which can be nice to be able to do.

But I also think specifically with A, um, committing more if we choose to, committing more specifically to a priority of the two things that are up there, I think is a little more uh impactful and and commits us a little more than just sort of like we want to do good budget stuff.

So I have a question.

Sorry, John.

I was gonna say it is a little bit of a chicken and a thing, but uh the hope was that if we could identify the areas you guys wanted to focus on, then we could have a conversation about and we get refining expectations and defining success for those areas.

So that not so much gonna cut just let's write the headline if that write the story.

I I also wondered about like a winner's bracket and a loser's bracket, right?

Like you've got we got the five winning brackets, but then we have like the losing brackets that can still be part of the game, but they aren't.

I I agree.

If we have capac, I mean to know your prioritized list down to 10 or something would be great.

And if we see opportunities and have time, we can work on those other five things, but what are the ones that we're really gonna throw?

So I get my question is um so this is a weird question, right?

I mean this is trying to word this carefully.

This is our individual things that we would like to see.

The things I've mentioned now come from conny conversations that I've had with people.

Um and I'm assuming that everything that everybody's listed here comes with that same that same baseline.

This is not just one individual.

Yeah, just throwing something up there saying this is my idea, I'm not talking to anybody about it, and I don't know if it'll have any support or not.

So I guess that would just be my and and I think everything that I've seen there are conversations that I've had over and over again.

So I'm assuming we're all sort of using for lack of a better word, that metric by throwing things up there.

It's not just this thing that I woke up this morning and thought, gee, I had this conversation with my dog while I was walking it this morning, he thought it was a good idea, so I'm gonna throw it on the board.

I'm assuming that is a safe assumption.

It's hard to say.

Yes.

Everyone else can, yes, absolutely.

This is the product of conversations and market research really within the community.

Okay.

We could just rank all of them.

Or I I like that.

Maybe to make it slightly easier, why don't we pick a top five and just keep the whole list also as an expression of all these things that are I'm not that doesn't mean and then we do them all, but it's not like we're throwing away just take the whiteboard and we'll go home.

I'm actually saying these are the the outcomes of brainstorming, yeah.

That and there are a lot of good ideas on here that I think will likely not make the top five.

Yeah, they will definitely be documented and preserved.

Yeah.

And and I think I just think that so many of them are budget-related, resource related, that I just think of them as a set.

I mean, I agree, probably it would feel a little silly if we came out of it and let's say all five were budget things.

That would feel like we're not really expressing things.

So they're but they're good ideas.

Yeah.

Revenue generating ideas.

So I have an idea, yes.

Which is that we do the prophesy that's been that it's been outlined, and whether it's five items, we write five or ten, however, whatever is realistic and easy.

And then we see what we have.

We'll see what those priorities are.

And if there are things that we then want to fold in, or we would want to discuss and there are whoever put that up there, proposed that, if that's a friendly amendment, or the things that we can group in.

That's what I was gonna suggest.

Sure.

Isaac, like I think, yeah, see how it shapes out and see how it feels.

Okay.

I'm fine with that.

Can we have our index cards?

You can have it in index cards of if anybody needs it in my house.

So your top five one being uh your your highest priority.

John and I can meet in the back corner, and if you get white smoke, then you're gonna be able to do that.

All right, go ahead.

Um copies of the agenda at the table on the city.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Seriously, seriously.

Really?

You do ramp processing on index cards.

Do you?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well, you gotta be in a do you have a theme?

Do you have like a theme that's like choose a theme for next week at the end of every movie?

Of course.

Okay.

That's so cool.

My daughter curates for us.

Great.

Wow.

She takes into consideration your interests.

Absolutely.

Should know us what we like, shows what we don't like.

How's your process on the wells look forward to when I when I'm away and can watch all the scary movies that you want?

Darkly scary movies.

Yeah.

Well, my threshold is pretty well.

Like one donations.

That's pretty much money.

We never watch scary movies.

But Tuesday nights, my family watches, you know, Marvel comic movies and things like that because I don't watch with you all.

Oh, right.

I'm a kind of a Marvel DC movie guy.

You are.

Oh, any time I can shut my brain off and know it's gonna be a happy, I think I'm good.

How many times can the world be destroyed and then so things that irritate me most?

Are things like where?

Like New York City seems to get leveled in every single Marvel movie, and then when they don't, they lift some other pluck some other thing out into the atmosphere and then just drop it on another town.

It's just the level of destruction that goes on before you can just save the world is the urban planning just as possible.

I know what those select boards are talking about.

Yeah, we always I don't like horror movies either, but we always end up watching a bunch of them because other people do like them and only bring them.

So it's a movie that they win the votes.

But you they rank low on your list.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I'm not a fan.

But sometimes it'll be like five.

I have to wreck.

So I think we're gonna be able to do that.

I could have ranked choice for all the Jane Austen movies.

Sure.

I'm sure we've had I don't think we've watched one, but I'm sure they've been there.

I'm okay with any movie as long as it's the big Lebowski.

It's a great movie.

It's a good one.

Yeah.

What is that your favorite movie?

Oh, okay.

I didn't have what basements I struck for my life on that movie.

Mine is best in showing my bathroom.

I just love that movie.

Which would be best in show.

I could watch it over the same show.

The dollar show.

Have you ever seen it?

I saw it on like uh uh like a greyhound bus field trip TV thing and had no idea what was going on and missed most of it, so not really.

Okay, it's worth it.

It's worth watching.

Oh really?

Wow, you must have been young.

I survived.

Have you seen it?

Best and show?

Yes.

Yeah.

Waiting for the cat license version.

Is there Westminster?

There must be the equivalent.

I'm sure there's something somewhere.

I didn't see that you're the cast on your farm and had a kitten.

Oh, did you mean with um yeah, that's Jerome.

You need a kitten, I can connect you with the kitten.

Actually, because you wouldn't believe how much that can spend on Instagram and how many ice cream sold.

Well, he's very friendly.

So it makes sense.

He's very friendly.

People really enjoy their time with him.

There is people who have been spent an hour already just had your stick to them about him.

Yeah.

I was coming down by Honey Bell Road just last night, and literally a cat jumped right out in front of me.

Yeah.

As I'm coming down.

Oh, and your bicycle.

Yeah.

Oh, that's it's hard to say.

And what did the cat say?

License and registration.

But I finally got things to a stop because I really did come very close to hitting it because it jumped out at the last second when I finally stopped.

I was like, God, that was potential rubber I also ran over.

Yeah.

Huh?

I mean I would have felt awful, sure.

But also you could have had an accident.

That kitty was just playing with you.

Yeah, mom will come covered by a copay.

Oh, good.

I mean, money mail, Steve.

That's a technical road.

If you're if you're going back to growing up on the road, there used to be cows that would be lying, taking a nap, right?

And the bus driver would be laying on the horn.

Get the cows get out of the room.

I just don't care.

And then you just walk at them.

Wait.

Um were they Fred Chini's clubs?

I don't know if that's being held out, so I don't know.

You don't want to say that.

Well, he's no longer with us, but then our heffers.

Our heifers got out multiple times when we were grazing a beak.

Oh.

Wow.

Really?

Isn't it a while ago?

2000.

The bus driver would be you know, cursing and everything get out of it.

The bus and get a big thick.

And prods and halves and it finally get off, you know, get up and slowly move the over get off the road.

Okay.

I wonder if they were our helpers.

I think this is before you started grazing them over there.

Okay, yeah.

Trying to struggle there.

Yeah, this is before that.

Okay.

Call them the old days.

Their preferred nomenclature is Vermont Slope.

We needed Hillary Francisco.

And they figured out.

So your highest rank was um increased revenues without increasing taxes.

Continue to explore revenue sharing and educate the public was number two.

Number three was child safety zones.

Four was expanding the housing stock, and then a tie for fifth was the FY27 budget.

Um C financial responsibility of health and Q program to incentivize camping on private property.

Great.

We're gonna call this the Ben accords.

Um swap A and L.

Um we wanna talk about those and see if is there any overlap where we wanna?

Is it cool if I write them off there?

What they are?

Yeah, I think so.

Can I do it shorthand?

Yes.

Discussion.

So the um the scores on these were thirteen overall points for increased revenues, eleven for revenue sharing, ten for uh child safety zones, and then there was a clear break to six for housing and five for each of the last the other three.

And this is the first place vote is five points is a deal.

Yeah, five four three two one.

Yeah.

I think this is probably a good representation of the group.

I think for a lot of these we ended up with a lot of the more general ones, so I think it's gonna come down to action items in a big way.

Um but that can be an unknown conversation.

Action items and how how do we structure things for ourselves so that we can look back in a year and say, do we think we did what we wanted to do or not?

Yeah, I think I think um if we took a look look at the whole, as we said earlier, there are a lot of like doable things on the longer list that are not part of this guidance that we might want to call out and you know it.

Yeah.

Like what can you accomplish?

Yeah, and some of those, I mean, we'll of course share this all with the department heads, and there may be things or ways they can do some of these things within current capacity, uh, like for example, the uh covered bridge idea that might be able to be done just through the record parks department and something like that.

Um rejuvenating flat street is happening with partners, it's something we would continue to support, doesn't necessarily have to be one of your high priorities, but a lot of different things.

But it also can be so we would put that under the operational route, is what you're saying, right?

It's already sort of happening, and we're just gonna look to support it.

Um it fits within our first priority, which is increasing revenue.

Yeah, no, and that's that's exactly what I was kind of saying before, because there's just a lot of things in there that that we've kind of put down that sort of have under these headings have uh things like I mean the FY27 budget, right?

So that's already an item that that is on here, uh, and even underneath that the uh financial responsibility and health, I would think would be sort of a budget related item anyway.

So in incentivizing private property for camping is not in any of those realms.

So my question is do we just sort of because we have the F FY27 budget as an agenda item?

Can we drop A and C and just to so we walk out of here with five as opposed to um a confuse seven?

Is that I would not like to do that personally.

I uh I think making a commitment I think not having the FY27 budget on our list of priorities sends the wrong signal, and yeah.

The FY27 budget is as you stated at the beginning of this thing, a huge part of what we do every year.

So I don't I don't I think it's a priority anyway.

Do you know what I'm saying?

And it's gonna happen anyway.

It's not like we're not gonna do it or something like that.

Well, yeah, I mean, so I'm to my point.

Are we because it's not on the budget item?

Are we just gonna say, well, that we don't need to be financially responsible and healthy, and do we not need to do um, you know, budget committees that reports to the select board thing.

I mean, is that is just stuff I feel like we would discuss anyway.

I don't know that it necessarily needs to be a budget.

I mean, for me personally, that's going to happen one way or the other.

We are going to be trying to be financially responsible as as somebody who has been through this budget process, this last budget process three times.

Um, you know, I can tell you that that you know, I'm I am gonna work hard to make sure that we have a budget that that meets mustard before we go to thing.

So to me, kind of bumping it in, and since it was sort of a three-way split and incentivizing private property for camping, seems to be a more humane thing to prioritize than something that we are doing anyway.

I have a process question.

Could we take those three ties and rank them on a card to see who wins?

We can do that.

Okay.

Rather than having seven.

I would rather just I would like to duke it out.

But that's fine, Amanda.

I don't know why I'm not be gilding.

I like um I like what they change, but I I I do think that B and E and A and C again are all budget related, and you know the really question is um I'm thinking maybe it's all of a set.

Is there something that you think is more distinctive about what are all what did you just list as budget related?

B, E, A, and C.

Alright, so I'll hopefully push it back.

I think that um the budget again is this thing that we do.

I don't know that this select board has ever really had anything a focus on increasing revenues, um and and we've been sort of working a little bit with the revenue sharing, but needing to understand more of what we we can do.

I don't so that helps the budget.

Let me let me revise what I said though, because I think it's really A and C that are the most umpatico.

Right, yeah.

So if we just merge them, then we have six things.

Or seven.

Yeah, I I mean we incentivizing six private property campaign is much as that makes one kind of vomit a little bit, and that that's the only sort of best solution that we can come up with.

But again, to your point it's a step in the right direction.

Um do we want to say do we want to add six six doable?

Yeah, I want to discuss the L housing as our fourth priority.

Um how much can we actually do as a town to to impact uh and and what departments and if that is the focus of our priorities?

What is that actionable plan?

Because it's it's that's a huge topic.

Well, I will luckily we have the woman here that's also to just leave gardens and parks and so for if we look back at the first two uh priority meetings, uh making the transportation uh center a good place for parking.

Um check, check developing an expansive vision for a town pool developed and a story.

I mean, so um finding a path forward for community safety, check, developing the concept for safety zones.

We didn't do that in member in that first year, so that did not happen.

And advancing housing initiatives.

I'm really struggling to kind of come up with what we actually did there.

There's nothing, there's not like a pin that I can stick in that and say that we did that.

So I can I can answer that, but also get to your question.

Like it so it has been the planning department.

So back then we did um land use regulation changes, we obtained some designations, joined the housing coalition, um some of the things that still need to be done is I mean, part of it would be looking at the town properties.

So, you know, are there potential for public private partnerships on our parking lots in the downtown?

Are there the lots to sell?

Could that could that trigger some?

We've we've looked at that, we can bring that forward pretty quickly.

Right.

There's also housing programs that we could maybe implement, but so those are the kind of work that we're doing anyway, but if you know I think we were accelerating accelerated falls, I think I think that there's um work that you have done and can continue to getting the population to understand what the state programs are and what they can do, and what people can do with their property to increase housing, like there's a big educational element to that, and and as I I said before, you know, you you have planning, and then you you you bring that horse to the water, you know, you you gotta get people in to know that there's this opportunity, and we it's been as of right to have an accessory apartment in your home forever, right?

But I mean it's like how we do that, so get more getting more people to do that and accelerating, you know, expanding the housing stock.

Like that's what this point's about, right?

So I'm just gonna be a devil's advocate here because we have I have personal experiences of an auxiliary dwelling increasing the value of a house significantly, and so the tax bill is very different the year before we did that, and it became exempt from the homestead.

So if our how does it work on housing and expanding housing, and you're talking about extending dwelling, but it increase it encourages concepts like that, like whether it's not just an incentive to build and the ability to permit, but also to make it more long-term viable for people in relation to their assessment.

Do you hear what I'm saying?

Yes, but then you were saying before that like having accessory drilling or having an Airbnb allows people to stay in their home.

This is long-term.

I'm talking a long-term apartment.

Yeah, not a short term.

Still, I mean it's it depends what it's used for.

If you're a business like ours, then you provide subsidized housing for your employees.

It's actually not a financial game.

And anyone I know who owns a an apartment building struggles to find the profitability right now.

They are housing providers.

Um I think that I'm getting in the weeds, so I'm gonna stop.

Yeah, there's positive and negative.

Yeah, I mean, I think that individuals have to make that decision.

Right.

So just wondering about as a town is our housing priorities, really, as if that's a priority of the select board, having conversations regarding that to have policies that could potentially encourage auxiliary dwellings, but also the investment in that over the long term, because I think the tax bill scares a lot of people.

When did we do the uh these sessions in the previous years?

June, June 3rd, yeah, as a matter of fact, the one was maybe banking.

I I just want to sort of bring that to light.

So on the first two, I felt like we had more time to roll out and and focus on the things we set as a priority.

We're a little hamstring now.

We were a little busy in April.

A little busy.

I don't know why.

But I don't remember.

I don't know, but there are so many meetings.

Um so I mean that's something that I think we need to we need to focus on as well.

And again, not to say like the FY27 budget isn't a priority.

It I just feel as though it's something that we do, but instead of going around and around and around to your suggestion, maybe it's just something we take and we vote on and see what flows to the top.

But if you merge A and C, then there's six.

So we can look at it.

Just in terms of what this is FY27 budget, it's specifically about having low single digit increase without withdrawing withdrawals.

So it's it's actually it's not just about having the doing the budget or a priority.

No, no, I I I I understand what the mechanism is.

And what I'm wondering is like, could we Oscar would if we have that discussion about do we want to set a target for what the increased percentages, like could that be a separate conversation?

Because also to me, low low single digit, are you talking is low mean two or three, one, two, or three percent, or does low mean oh, that could be anything under seven percent.

As Oscar's uh spiritual animal and legal counsel, I think he was probably had three in mind when he said that.

But you know, the thing is it's like you know, I could I could you know conjure up like a dream date, you know.

But you have to live with who comes to the door, probably don't we're getting too abstract.

I'm not but it's like you know, deciding now what the budget increase is gonna be, like I I remember this conversation from last year at the retreat when I was watching, and and yes, I'm not saying we should pick a number and lock it in.

I'm saying that I am pretty confident that anything above let's say five percent will be a huge problem, and I'm pretty confident that we can't get to that five percent by sort of um taking it out of long-term spending.

So to me, I've identified I think this is a problem we're going to face.

I'd like us to start thinking about how we possibly make that happen sooner rather than later.

And it's a priority for me.

I am fine with this.

I mean, this this is a pretty general exercise.

I'm fine with this should just reflect what the group feels, and we voted, and I'm okay with that.

And there are going to be much more nuts and bolts moments where just because revenue is number one, if someone brings some really impractical revenue idea to the board, we'll all have our own opinions on that.

Um so there will be a time to get into the weaves on all of these things.

So I'm not I I wish A had more votes, but it's okay with me that it doesn't, and it's okay with me that this exists at a higher sort of a higher level of abstraction.

And I do share, yeah.

Go ahead.

I I heard Sue say that it would be really helpful.

Like more, or you maybe said this, John.

It's helpful would be helpful to have three things.

Well it would be more successful, three things than five things.

And so seeing six or seven things is not closer to three.

Yeah.

It was difficult.

I mean, two of them really didn't get addressed in the first year when we had five.

So like I'd like to, you know.

Um to like give some more useful direction to our town staff by weeding these down and I'm I'm with Oscar.

I mean, I think sorry.

I'm with the foot.

I agree.

I I actually just think we should throw them back in the voting hat.

And I actually think we should throw housing in there too, the last four.

Because the difference between ten points for child safety zones and six points for housing and five points for AC and Q, those are all very closely um navigated in all of our select word minds.

And I think let's have a limited amount of goals so that we can achieve theoretically achieve them.

So what are you suggesting?

Throwing a uh the the last four into uh and choosing into a vote.

Into a vote changing to the first re-ranking.

Oh, yeah, sorry.

Re-ranking the first four.

Is that what you're doing?

Last four.

Nonetheless, okay.

Okay.

And see what flushes out.

I hope you vote a lot of an index card.

I did.

We have index cards probably from the eighties and the planning.

I'll remember that during budgeting time.

If you need public, we've got all the supplies.

What if adhesive might not work so well?

Would you be willing as a final amendment?

And would this be feasible to re-rank all of them?

No.

So that because maybe it's maybe it's we find out that actually now that this is the universe.

We all are really excited about the bottom half.

I don't I don't think.

I think ten points.

Anything that's got yeah, that's what I think.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

So re-ranking the last four housing.

L A C Q one additional.

So we're going for it too.

We don't for four or five.

Why don't we do it and it's if there's one that clearly has more votes than the rest, then we take the top four, and if there are two that were close, we take five.

It's a group decisive, yeah.

I actually with five.

And I'm still like this is a I think we should do this.

But also I'm still not sure how we make the turn from you know, housing is number four to what does that actually mean for John and the staff.

So that's maybe a separate.

Yeah, that's about that.

A thing here like that.

Yeah.

L-A-C-Q.

L IQ.

Remember, kids, we're just ranking four.

I can take it out.

I should have just wrong.

I don't think that much.

Claire my home breaker.

Neutral high.

Why don't you do it the ranked choice voting one way where you like if there's not a clear winner for the first time?

I believe that if you do it by points this way, it doesn't actually change anything to do that.

I'm constantly getting confused by this, but I think that would work.

That works if you're just looking well, whatever.

But I think it doesn't change anything because you're doing the point value uh two ties.

Yeah, two ties.

Okay, well, whatever.

Okay, so housing and LC.

Uh the financial responsibility and health.

And then a FY27 budget and incentivized department property.

How many points are they?

19 for the first ones and 16 for the second.

Why don't we just take the ones that got 19 and call it a day?

Sure.

Then we'll have I think that's fixed.

That's the problem too.

No, that's five.

If we just take the two nineteen top ranked.

No, we have our five priorities.

I think that's fine.

Points.

So it's T N L.

Nineteen and six.

Is that not right?

We did five four three two in the Oh, oh, yeah.

That was the points assigned.

Oh, yeah.

One was five.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If we're looking to get five, and those at the top.

Yep.

Okay.

Can I rewrite it?

So it should be over to you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Help me out, team.

These are horrible.

Oh, the other.

Do I use the other side?

Oh.

I didn't try to do that.

Oh, there might be a separate.

That's what I was wondering.

So that's okay.

But it's a little bit more.

So now we're unsafe.

One, two, three, four, five.

Okay.

So while we're in this wall, I just want to say not only am I grateful to you, Sue, for being such a good facilitator, but you're the perfect person because you know all about these projects and programs.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Um, okay.

Sorry.

So what we've done in the past is John will take these to the department heads and we'll kind of talk about them and kind of figure out the areas that we can write things progress on the own.

But we'll also write this up and bring it to a select board meeting for your adoption.

I guess that'll be September.

Yeah.

So um do we I mean it's 510.

Do we want to have any more conversation about um what success could be look like on some of these?

I mean, I think you've heard heard a lot of ideas, and now I have, so I feel pretty comfortable, but if any select board member has anything additional that they want to say or question on it, we can do that.

Otherwise, we can we can move on to the budget development conversation, which have some discussion during this about that.

So are there are there things in the budget development process that they want to bring up that aren't on this larger list?

Probably yeah, I think so.

Um do we want to turn to that conversation now then?

Sure.

Okay.

Do you is there anything you wanted to say about it, John?

Or no, just there were there were a couple other things in the in your backup memo that we'd also heard in April.

And that so those other two things were providing opportunities for each of the department heads to talk about details of a budget of the future proposals and uh scheduling just generally scheduling more meetings to go over to have enough time in the select board's agenda.

So have we decided that we don't want a budget fair, and instead we want the department heads, etc.

That's sort of what I heard, but it's that's how I feel.

I just wanted to clarify that sounds good to me.

So no budget fair.

Yes.

Okay.

I thought that was pretty great.

But maybe every other year.

I don't know.

We could see how the how it goes with going back to doing it basically a half a select board meeting with a department or something like that, and see if that's an offer anymore.

What were the criticisms of it?

Was it the participants that didn't enjoy it?

The staff didn't like it.

Was it a pain?

I I I got the impression that uh budget minded people of the community preferred having department heads at a select board meeting.

I think yeah, I and I think those were mostly the people who went, but it wasn't to the level of depth that really interested them, and it's not I don't think it really pulled in like a wider audience.

That's my impression.

Um that's interesting.

Okay, so that survey from staff who was presenting my impression of what participants said.

Okay.

I think uh budget discussion should feel a little less like a trade show.

So great.

Yeah, and the and uh simple similar way the criticism that led us to do the budget, try the budget fair in the first place was that these department heads were thinking that there's a lot of kind of discussion at select board meetings, but it never changed the budget, and um they they felt attacked more than anything on a lot on a lot of stuff, so that was why we wanted to try something different.

If it does doesn't work for community, that's why we can go back to to that.

So you the fair was hoping for more of a community conversation and and I don't know, did the department heads find that beneficial?

Yeah, I think so.

Um the the one-on-one felt more comfortable.

Yeah, I mean, um, but I know a lot of people came to that.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That I'd never seen at a select board meeting.

Yeah, that's true.

Including me.

And then here I am now on the select board.

There you go.

We we dragged you in.

I thought it was very congenial to see all of the staff department heads in a room together in our beautiful library with presentations open to answering questions, somebody learning more, a person who didn't know any of the department heads, put a face to a name to maybe a letter they'd gotten, or um, an opportunity to thank our department heads.

We had just had that fire on Milchin Road and the fire department was there, and I was just yeah, to Lenny Arban, Assistant Chief Curly, thank you so much.

And so it was a cool spontaneous opportunity to interact.

That was how I saw it.

But that's more soft stuff, and it's not getting into the nitty-gritty of uh Yeah, I think it it I think it ended up not replacing the select board meeting component for the people who wanted that, but if we think that it has sort of independent, just like community building value, I'm completely open to that.

Um I do still think we need to have the more in-depth uh budget meetings also, and I don't want to double burden people.

So what do you think, Jim?

Is does your staff that capacity for both?

I I think it's a lot.

Um we could if that's what you really want to do.

I could we could uh test the waters.

Well, why don't we want to try to go back to the department heads and then see if anybody misses it?

No, I can I tell you just from sort of being like that fly on the wall circulating, answering my own questions about the budget when I was asked as a select board in person.

Um you know, I was eavesdropping on conversations, and it it felt more like uh yes, the opportunity to meet a department head and yes, complain to them about something else other than the budget.

That's that the overarching thing, but I would have to say 50% of what I overheard was something in those veins, and 50% was more that had to do with uh well, why do you need this kind of a thing?

Well I hear you.

I hear you.

I wonder about a hybrid idea, which is having the opportunity to have some listening sessions like we had with the budget redevelopment process as part of our regular budget process.

That does something that would take more people than the select board maybe hit three budget items or three meetings where we as a select board actually do some more listening, um, sort of like community meetings about the budget, or we that's just throwing that sort of out there.

So there's the interface with the department head, but there's all the select boards there, and we get to listen to the general public.

I think that would be valuable for us, um, but I still don't have I'm I'm really thinking that as you know, I went to a lot, I've been to a lot of select board meetings with those sort of department presentations, and they're pretty tiresome and they don't usually end up changing the budget.

But I'd rather first of all I'd rather err on the side, it's an opportunity for people to ask questions and get answers in sort of a more structured setting.

And it's also just um it's just erring on the side of transparency and availability and all that stuff.

And I think I can think of examples last year where somebody had a question about something in the budget, there wasn't really a venue to ask it in, and then it's sort of festered and they got really upset about it and maybe could have been headed off at the beginning of the process in a setting like that.

But I also think I don't think that needs to be at the exclusion of a starting with a listening session or something like that, which again may not rock our worlds or change our minds, but it's an opportunity.

I guess all I what I think is that the people who have things to say about the budget are gonna say them, and they're gonna find a way to get that to us, and if we seek it out and welcome it, I think we'll have a better time than if we know force people to write, or not force, but people end up writing angry emails and feel like they're not being heard and stuff like that.

So I also feel like they have an opportunity to do the same thing that we're suggesting every first and say third Tuesday of the month.

So I mean, I don't know that we need to congregate once again.

It's it's interesting because I think within department that's common, what you were saying, Oscar, is very valuable, but it's not just about changing the budget.

What it is is about informing the public.

I agree, and that informing the public, for example, we got a lot of questions uh last year about you know why is this department composed of these people?

And when you explained it to them, it made so much sense.

So it allows us to have more explanations, more public understanding of how our our town government is set up, and for that reason, I think that the department heads coming is you know, it's not just about how our budget is for that department, it's what goes on in that department and why the budget is as it is, and I think that that's the most valuable part.

Okay, so we can do those?

We'll set those up.

Great.

And then, but then there's still sort of the outstanding question of does that mean instead of a community fair felt like it was kind of split on that, and then there are other ways to involve people in the budget process, such as listening, a listening session or something like that.

And those are all decisions we can make in either direction.

It just comes down to what we think is valuable.

And I think you know, I probably not the secret that I err on the side of more, I would rather give people more opportunities to be involved, and then they don't take advantage of them rather than I think the feeling of when someone feels like they haven't had a chance to participate or get an answer or something, I think that's when it takes that turn.

People start getting upset.

So I to think back on that, um, I think a listening session would be a good idea.

Um, like we did to the budget and development process, but we do it before we develop the budget.

Um so rather than having people be reactive, they could be proactive.

Or they know that we're beginning the budget process, so it's time to show up at those select board meetings because many people might be involved in their naturally their own life and work and not really know what's going on until after they hear through the grapevine, and then what they're gonna cut what?

You know, so you'd like them to complain in advance.

Yes.

I would be helpful.

It would be so helpful.

I agree with a front load a listening session.

Front load a listening session prior to budget redevelopment and also explain like hey, remember to tune into the website and you're gonna find the backup materials if there's a part of the meeting that has timestamps.

Show up and be there, be present.

Don't wait until you get outside of the timestamps.

I really like that your idea of having it early on in the process and the listening.

And I think it would be more helpful for the public to have a draft budget in front of them, like something to be able to respond to and engage with and have their questions and currency press.

Um you're thinking a midway kind of a no, I think I I I like your origin, not to I'm not completely poo-pooing what you're saying, but I think the idea of doing something along the lines of what you're saying, like we're getting ready to start this process.

If you have things, concerns, if we have questions now, we're gonna do this listening session, we're gonna have this thing, and we're gonna do all the things, and then you should be paying attention from here on in, because over the next few months we're gonna be sussing out the budget and what that looks like.

And because how many times have we been at the table ready to make a decision, and in the 11th hour, all of a sudden it's on a headline somewhere, and that's when people rush in, uh you know rumple rumble rumble, and you know we're we're left up there having to make a decision because we have to move on.

So I don't hate the idea of basically saying, you know, some hey, it's now the it's the opening session for for FY27 budget party month, you know.

So I don't I don't know.

Woo-hoo!

And so the difference is yours would be without a budget, you're suggesting that they have a budget in front of them.

Yeah, and I'm basically no, I was gonna say, but it then that's where like the department, like when the department heads are there speaking to their budget, that's that's also an opportunity for that.

So I'm just I'm thinking I'm actually looking at the that I can share these.

This is the finance committee FY26 recommendations follow-through.

Um if you would like it through now.

I don't know, Oscar.

I can share with this one for you, and then uh oh, you have one.

Okay.

Um you can see that number four is about the budget development process.

This is what the finance committee of RTM came up with.

And the last two bullet points I think relate to this.

One is asking departments to propose priorities or suggestions public related, allowing questions and boards in public, which is what Liz just mentioned.

And then the last one is special scheduling the special budget meetings dedicated to public input and review.

And the review and the review part to me suggest that there is a budget that they're able to look at the public looking at.

I I don't please help me.

Um I don't know that having a budget for them to look at that early on in the process if we're suggesting is that feasible?

I think there well, I think we can do both essentially, right?

Like, well, so one of the recommendations in here, which I agree with is to start as early as we can.

That doesn't mean we can have a draft budget as early as we want it, right?

Like that's gonna take time the fiscal year just ended a month ago.

So I doubt what would you say, John, like October or November?

Or our first meeting in November, probably is reasonable to bring you a draft.

And then that gives us two months before sort of an early January approving something kind of timing.

Yeah, if you want to get it participated.

So my thought is that there are things we can do without a draft budget, such as getting some public input, and we should start that as early as possible and make sure we have enough opportunities for public input on the drafts once we have them.

But I think doing some stuff early when we have all that sort of empty space might also be good.

You know, it's funny, as much as we want people to come to select board meetings.

People love to come to the library.

And so if we can have a select board meeting at the library, like on Halloween, and it's triggered your budget, you know.

Just something here's a part for announcing.

We wouldn't lose the young parent on the public.

Yeah, well, I'm just you'll lose start.

Yes.

Um we should have, you know, within that early November time frame.

Do you want to have it before we have a budget or oh, I'm saying well before?

I'm saying we start this conversation as soon as we can, just get people thinking about it.

Like I would rather spread feedback out over September and October rather than get it all in November and have to process it.

So I think the FY27 budget process needs to start ASAP in some form that we need to open that conversation.

So you want some sort of a listening session in October.

Or September.

Well, September meetings are pretty well booked up.

Well, not at a regular meeting, like we do probably have to be a like a Thursday night like we did or something that works with the library.

We already have a special meeting at the beginning of October because Jewish holidays, so forth.

Yeah, I know, but I think this may be a year where we have to bite the bullet on the that's just my feeling.

You you raised some um meeting junkies here, plus three and news to left work.

That's how we were inducted into this entire process.

Two meetings a week till 11 p.m.

Like we no days off.

We we live by that.

We will in for the to cover so that's a really good point, Amanda, to cover all these uh department head meetings is gonna you're gonna be meeting weekly in November and December.

And that that's what has been the practice weekly meetings from November on until we have a budget.

I just like the idea of the listening session.

I think it's um it's community-minded.

Um it's partial to this is some my personal preference.

It's it's uh it's better for me to hear directly from people in live communication when we're on Zoom versus um lots and lots of emails.

Um I prefer that personally.

I think it builds better community, it builds more transparency, and you know, people are on a roll, they're very involved right now.

I'm convinced.

I think you you all have said we should do this, or this listening session before that we have a budget.

That works for me.

So I heard no budget error departments at the select board listening session early in the process and a listening session after there's a draft budget.

Is that right?

I'm fine with that.

I I don't know that that's necessary.

But we might be having enough budget meetings at that point that we were covered there.

I don't know.

I'm just gonna I think I think a listening session to basically say, Oh, this is your hard line in the sand.

We're opening starting this process, moving forward, show up to the library whenever we we designate the time and space and place and the amount of time we're gonna cover it.

We're gonna be here if you want to come and ask your questions, you want to list your priorities, this is the time to do it.

But that's not the only time we have all these other meetings that we'll be we'll be doing.

So just but here's where we're this is how we are going to market and say we are starting this now.

So don't come in like the day before we're gonna do the budget and say we don't want the road fixed, right?

We want that early on.

Could you do a PSA for the radio?

I don't I don't have a good voice for it.

So it sounds like we're okay with just one listening session okay early in the process.

Is that okay?

I think and if we feel like we desperately need something later in the process, we can adjust.

So I just think it's gonna be more like October because September's pretty well booked already.

Well, we can talk about it.

So select board, one of the public members has their hand raised.

Do you want to wait till public comment, or do you entertain a question?

I would entertain it, but I don't know if I'll try to be entertaining.

If we go actually, I think inevitably, if RTM goes away, we have to have town meeting on the first Tuesday of March.

That's going to put a crunch.

The normal process is you finalize the budget at the very end of January.

You have to do a town report, which people should have some time in advance of voting on the second of March.

The finance committee is going to need time to write a report based on your final budget.

And to get that to the town to be included with the town report.

So timing this year in particular is going to be a trick.

So I'd like you to bear that in mind.

If you can finalize your budget, say middle of January, we're in much better shape.

Otherwise, it's going to be very difficult for I think us and the town.

Thank you.

Other ideas about the budget process.

I would like to suggest that we actually take a meeting with the representative town meeting finance committee, which reached out to us on July 1st asking for a meeting with the select board to be able to review these 10 different um recommendations that they have come up with over the last budgeting cycle that uh based on it with the finance committee reports for RTM held in March and May of this year.

And the budget committee's already discussed that done.

The agenda setting committee?

Um I guess.

Of September.

Yeah.

There's no memory of that, but that's fine.

I don't have to.

I think we talked about it and then you emailed David that moment.

I don't think we decided on a date, but I'm happy to decide on a date.

Or we didn't, I forgot that's September 9th sounds great to me.

That works, Radl.

Can you pass that along?

Yeah, you're mostly here.

Okay.

And we're talking about basically just inviting them up to the table, asking them to present their thoughts and then discussing a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I think it would be great to be able to go through these.

Yeah.

Especially.

Yeah, I mean, several of these it will impact the budget.

Oh, yeah.

And are you proposing not to do some of these things, Oscar?

I mean, Isaac, or sorry.

Uh or are you know, are there things that you don't understand in that, or what's the what's the ask?

I think it's more like a public conversation about these topics.

Because you're not sure you want to do them, or no, it could end in us in the board affirming that we do want to do all these.

And if we quickly go through these long-term financial planning, I mean we have to do it, but we've decided to do it, right?

The five and twenty-five year thing.

We're doing monthly financial reports.

We're doing a lot on EMS revenues.

I think most of these budget development process items we've at least that's why I'm just curious.

Do you want to discuss this now?

Do we want to discuss them from that?

Yeah, no, we'll we'll save it for the meeting.

But I think yeah, that's my recommendation that we we actually honor the requests from this committee and take the time to talk with them and address.

I mean, I don't agree with all of them, but I think that there's that's right.

Yeah, I mean, well, some of them have already just like the revenues from pilot that we should raising money from nonprofits.

I already voiced my opposition to that, and we're moving forward with it, or soliciting that.

So, but I it would be good to do this systematically, I think, with them at the table.

Sounds like we're all good with that.

Cool.

That's great.

Yeah, I think that I mean, uh the idea I already suggested of a budget committee, I think could be really helpful to us, but we already talked about that.

But um, you know, kick it around, think about it.

I think it could give us a lot of bandwidth.

But that's all I have.

Anyone else?

Do you all want a five-minute break?

It is five thirty five.

Um we talk about the rest of the agenda.

Yeah, let's go for it.

You want to keep moving?

Yeah, let's go.

You need a break.

Well, or I can't.

All right, so well, let's just do this.

So, what we have left.

Um, I'm gonna talk about the time as well.

So what we have left is um a conversation about any process improvements you might want to make to your select board meetings or process of how you deal with other boards and committees.

Um, and then the 2026 state legislative priorities and strategies conversation, some of which have shown up on here, but you might have others.

So I think if we are going to do those, it's gonna take more time than the 25 minutes that can I could we maybe do the process improvements and then take a break.

Sure.

And public participation.

Oh, yes, and public participation.

Which I don't have anything for I, so I think um just for I I think um I I don't know if this is a process improvement improvement, but I know that um as I sit down at my end of the table, sometimes I um hear point of order as a means to stop a conversation or somebody saying something.

So I think uh you know, I've seen it happen half a dozen times more times than I care to uh to see when it's the chair's um position to to do that.

So I think part of the process thing is that hardline three minutes regardless.

That's it.

A warning at 10 seconds to wrap up, and that's it.

Uh a lot of just what would become sort of semi-tense moments within a meeting.

Well, you know, at the last meeting, I kind of said that that was redoubling my efforts to keep it to three minutes, but the important part to me was having the public cooperation and recognition because some people are new to the process and hardly ever speak.

And and I'm generally in the position of wanting to give them more time because they don't know.

But then there's someone who's people who speak all the time, and they know the drill.

Right.

And and really, I I guess I need to be firm across the board, everybody, but at the same time, everybody can help us have a smoother meaning by understanding those limitations.

And I think if it's just fair across the board, then we'll run into it.

And you know, I and I remember having this conversation with Daniel basically saying, like I think most people do step into that room and they don't understand Robert's rules of order and how things are, and it's very confusing.

The book is extremely boring when you're leaping through it, so you know, like it's you get to the second page and you're done.

Um but to basically explain that.

I think you do that.

You know, you everybody will have three minutes to speak.

I will I think just saying, you know, I'll give you a 10-second warning and then we'll ask you to and then I'll I'm gonna reiterate that.

Yeah.

And I think that's just something that we have to keep doing.

That's again and reminding them that this is just uh even the playing field for everybody.

And because you know, we'll have weekly budget meetings, and you know, there'll be a lot of concern.

And so reiterating the regularly will be important, and and uh I'll I'll be appreciating the public's uh assistance and understanding.

In any meeting going after 10 o'clock at night, public comments reduced to 12 seconds.

Kidding.

I mean, that's I think that's kind of an issue, like when you you guys have set aside half an hour, say, on a topic, but so many people want to talk to you.

It goes for an hour or something like that.

Like balance, getting that, and and that's I've seen boards struggle with that over the years.

It's it's a hard thing to do.

Do you want to hear from people, but you have a lot of other business that you need to get through, so that's the and the other and the thing that I can weigh is if I see uh a lot of people talking about an issue, I might want to make it two minutes, but is that thin, you know, right?

And and I think that interest comes in when the same person wants to speak again and again, and so those are all hard decisions that I deal with on a case-by-case basis.

I've also heard a suggestion um that we haven't adopted, but um, I think it's a it could be adapted to fit, and that is that the public um submit statements online prior to the meeting that become public record.

Um that that is kind of a a way to streamline the time feature.

Um I know you've been suggesting so we can have a dialogue about it.

Let me just finish real quick.

And so and it could be a hybrid of that.

Um it could allow for more access for people to provide comments that go in the public record.

It might be more but then their downfalls which I'd like to talk to the board about that might not be great, but that potentially could save on our time efficiency, and that we could so anyway, yeah.

So for example, uh I I do a lot of um federal environmental hearings, and you're allowed to submit your comment to the Armed Corps of Engineers, and they will take it as if it was publicly stated.

We don't have a process.

What we do have is someone can say, these are my comments, please read them at the meeting, right?

And that could be done.

But s a lot of times people write to us with personal experiences that while they don't have while it's not assured privacy, they're asking for privacy.

And I wouldn't want to make every piece of correspondence public.

But there but people who want to not come and read a statement, we can read the statement.

You know so that is available to us always.

If people say, I can't make it to the meeting, but here's my statement.

That's been done in the past.

You know, we got radio voice and everything.

So I just I just wanna say that I don't want everyone's correspondence to the select board to be read aloud in public.

I want people who want their statement to be made public.

And that's it.

Yeah.

I agree.

I think, and of course, if someone sends us a statement and then we read it, we're not actually saving time in the meeting.

I could imagine a system where, like, hey, if you want to be on the record, you send us something and tell us to do this, and we'll put it on the website and say, like, hey, it's part of the budget process.

Here are the 12 comments we got from the public, and it doesn't get read at the meeting, but you are on record.

But I don't think we know how many people would do that.

But you know, I think I think the if the point is to have something said to influence us in our voting.

I mean, that's the point.

Right.

So it's either said or many times people write to each of us.

Yeah.

Each of us.

And as long as we don't reply all, you know, we can take that in.

So it's just that those comments are not necessarily made public unless someone wants them to be.

So I I think all of these ideas are covered, and and you know, I can also weigh the room and say, okay, this many people want to speak in favor, and this many people want to speak in disfavor, and and try and balance that.

That's a little bit harder, but yeah, when a situation arises where it's difficult, I can make those statements to get that, and and what we did in the library was we have people sign up.

So there's a lot of things at our disposal that we can use when the situation needs it.

Yeah.

I think most people don't, you know, want to come to uh you know, people will often ask me, like, I want to come and I wanna I want to say something about this, and I'll like, well, okay, that's that's on the agenda, and we won't be getting to that until about 8 30 at night, um, or a select board meeting so 11 30, 12.

Um, but you know, so if you can come, this is when you should show up, try to stick around, see where we are, it's on Zoom, you can kind of gauge the timing of it, follow along with the agenda, then that's fine.

Um, or I want to talk about this.

I want to I want this addressed, and you have to explain to them what that public participation is like.

Come right at the beginning of the meeting, we do a few things, and then you'll get right in and then you'll be home.

You know, then you can say what you have to say, and then you can go home because that's not an agenda item.

But also no it won't be discussed.

That won't we can't discuss it, but we can hear it.

You know, so that that's a part where sort of I think the rubber misses the road for a lot of people because they they have this really thing that they're super passionate about.

And then looking at five faces who go, thank you.

You know, and that's a little bit smart.

So, you know, maybe you know, I'll have a refresher, like in September.

Like these are the things that you need to know to come and to make the select board meetings more effective.

Right.

And you know, I mean, and I think as as we're having discussions, tomorrow I'm letting people know how our meetings are run and why things items have to be warned so people prepare and doing all that.

I think it's important that we are educating people as to how our meetings are run as well.

So just a thought.

And I think if there's a discussion that goes really long, I feel pretty confident you have the support of the board if you started to if you said, okay, anyone who's already spoken once, we're not gonna do that, or we're just we're gonna there's 20 people with their hands up, we're gonna take 10 more.

Um because at a certain point, yeah, you just have to do it.

We have to do these other things.

So and even though you tell people to try not to repeat the same thing, they do because if they want their voice heard.

And that's it's uh really not an enviable point to be in.

I hear Liz do this where she'll say, okay, I see three people, you, you, and you, and that's we're gonna move on after that.

Yeah, because those, you know, uh a lot of times people come in at the end and raise your hand and we're done.

And again, it's sometimes you can see it where somebody says something like the last person says something, makes this really new point, like three people look, oh I didn't even think about that.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, great.

That was helpful.

Go ahead and yeah, I have a process question, something I'm seeking clarity on.

So some of us we elected uh chair, vice chair, and clerk.

And I've been curious about what's appropriate for me as clerk to write, you know, if I want to write to, you know, I'm you know, as clerk of the Brattleboro Select Board, this is my, you know, this is XYZ.

You know, in what situations would that be appropriate to use that title in correspondence from the my select board account.

Um I I would say if if you were directed by the board to do that, then you know, to communicate some matter of business around your role and duties as a clerk, then that would be appropriate.

Okay.

And would that be the same as for all the elected roles on the board?

You mean to the newspaper?

Um yeah, that the newspaper to the state government, to our state legislators, to members of the public.

Give me a for instance, just even if you're making it up.

Um let's say there was something that was a topic of discussion at a select board meeting, um where we had you know has already been discussed.

Yeah, one that had been discussed, maybe one that hasn't been, you know, is on the agenda.

Yeah.

Well, I can give you an example.

It's a reporter contacted me the other day wanting to talk to me about the bridge.

And I said, I'm just the minority opinion.

I am only speaking for myself.

And if you want the majority opinion, speak to the other members because my opinion does not carry, you know.

I I don't speak for the select board.

I don't I don't speak as as chair of the select board.

I don't speak for the select board, you know, and um this reporter had a really hard time dealing with that, but I was like, you know, this is my opinion, but it's not the select board's action, you know.

And so like when I and when I write things in the paper, I say, you know, yeah, I'm um chair of the select board.

I'm not speaking on behalf of the select board, because we're all our five boy about votes.

You know, we speak for ourselves, and rarely, if ever, would the chair speak for everybody because we all have different opinions.

Unless it was post-vote and post vote on five zero.

Yeah, unless I've been directed to do that.

Oh, okay.

You know, when I have opinions in the paper, I say, you know, this is my opinion.

It's like a good clear standard.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Okay, thanks.

So will you just repeat what you understood right there?

Yeah, that we only would use our titles in as clerk or chair or vice chair in in writing, you know, as chair, vice chair, clerk.

We'd only write that when we were directed by the select board to do that.

Although I do I have written things that said, yes I'm chair of the select board, but this is my opinion.

But yeah I think it is very important for a chair of the select board for example to not omit these are my thoughts and not that of the whole select board.

I usually and and when the press contacts me they did they did this last year um and just because they had my number and they were like hey what's your opinion on that I would say well you should really probably be talking to Daniel if he's the chair of the board or call the town manager.

Because I just the last thing I want to do is get my words even though that might have reflected get them twisted and it makes it sound like I'm representing the entire board.

It's a really it's a really weird thing or I can just say I'll talk to you off the record and just make sure that that's the first thing you say because that's what I said now what do you call it so you know I'll give you my opinion but it's off the record.

I can't speak I didn't vote in favor of it but here's if you say that it's on the record just remember it could be on the record right yeah I have I have had people I had the conversation asked it be off the record and I saw it in the newspaper next.

Yeah.

Just because we're talking about process technically speaking the chair talked to the press right that's what we that was in our process um that was in our literature when we that is typically yes that the chair will be called yeah by the press and press that doesn't always happen because you know the um for for the reason I just said like you know there's I probably have 75 media personnel in my phone so if they have a question about Brattleboro they're just they got me on speed dial so they're gonna call me and at which point I give them this one without but if I get if I get a question on a political matter I typically would refer to the chair first and then assume that the chair would be letting you all know and that you wanted to weigh in or whatever but you know basically um I I it's or I could if if I got an inquiry that was broader I might just email you all and say hey we got this inquiry does it if anyone wants to respond to it and you've done that.

So should we formalize that chair does need to reach out to the entire Solar Board?

No.

It's it's been it's been left up to the chairs at least since I've been here also I'm positive that over the years I've read like you know story about the gazebo project with a quote from Franz or like I think often I I but but those quotes often come from the meeting themselves too.

So keep that but also I think that the reporters uh seek out you know oh yeah I mean Isaac's very quote so should we or like if Isaac has an action core thing at the bridge someone's gonna call in and ask about it and it's gonna give a response so but that but the action core thing at a bridge is Isaac the individual also elected official.

Right and I think that you know and then it was very clear in that wasn't a not you know I mean I mean my job right not the select board so if we're reached out to by the press should we it should we report to to John or of this or whoever the standing chair you know what I think is that the reporters feel that they have carte planche to speak to whomever they like and to a certain extent they do.

Yeah it's more of a if you want to say no comment or something you know basically you want you don't want to dive into the topic you can always refer them to me and I can state that my understanding of the position of the select board if they have one and if they don't it's really the town has nothing to say or and very often I rely on John.

I mean I I think the more communication and sharing that you can do about things is just gonna help help you all uh as you navigate the controversies up there.

Okay.

Any others?

Anything else on the process?

Smoke in questions, conversation.

So we have if you want to do it.

Legislative, well, we should probably take the temperature of the table.

But the state legislator, um, legislative priorities and strategies, and just kind of a wrap-up of action items.

Um do we want to move that tools like what we're doing?

Yeah, I I was gonna suggest that you wanted to pick this up maybe in September, October.

Uh it still would be timely.

The thought here was you could start to shape some of your initial thoughts, and maybe some of them you've already discussed earlier in the meeting, and we'll we'll try to pull what we can for those and bring them back for a select board discussion.

Okay, that works for you.

Sure.

I also think it's very valuable to look at the previous list.

That's what I was gonna say of the list that stands for is great for now to continue on then if there's just based on the results of this one.

My only thought on that is that I'd love if we could work up something a little more um tangible or publicly like publicly tangible about the strategy, and here's the action we're taking next, and as opposed to just that there is some advocating going on behind the scenes.

I'd uh I'd love something more actionable that that we work up, not at the same time.

But the process usually is um that we work up the list, but then we have a kind of a pre-meeting with the legislators, yeah.

Um, and they appreciate that because you know there's there's kind of a disconnect between what we want and their process, their committees and their so forth.

So it's a great ability to say where we can get together, where you where you can be lobbying before we actually have a public meeting.

Yeah, what we have and I think it's one of the only times that we kind of have a um a pre-meeting with anybody to discuss what we're going to discuss.

But that can't be with all of you, obviously.

So I think we would have to designate people to do that.

Okay.

Okay.

So any rules.

Yep.

So action items, which is kind of the wrap-up, and then we'll have public participation.

So we'll take all of this, I'll write a report, um, and then we'll also kind of put together your top priorities and bring them to a select board meeting in September for you to vote on formally.

Um my little parking lot list that I had had, there wasn't too many items on it, so John has one as well.

But um, one of the things was having the planning commission come to the select board to talk about the town plan and the process, um, putting adopted policies on the website, kind of organizing those.

Um, and then I also took a note about the EMS billing rates.

Um, wasn't very clear you were looking for something on that, but I took a note on that, and then um, and then I'm gonna share the short-term rental um research that the planning commission did about a year or two ago.

And I can give you a clearer formulation of that the end of this question afterwards.

I think that was very clear.

And on our sort of floating out there is uh review of the billing policy.

Um whenever we can fit that into an agenda, I think we should have a conversation about just to check in on the overall policies.

Um I also had uh communicate canal street plans and the accelerated behaving somehow.

I had uh share our short-term rental studies.

Yep, that one and yeah, that was it.

Cool.

All right.

Anything else on this portion and just turn it over to public participation?

I'm good.

Let's do it.

Um, should I turn it back over to the chair for this?

Well, thank you all for calling your patience and uh pardon me.

I do so.

Oh, definitely.

But I'm talking to the members of the public who are here.

Um would anyone like to speak to them?

Thank you, but no.

I don't think so, but thank you.

Yeah, I'd like to speak.

Your name, please.

Oh yeah, my name's Lively Boyds.

Uh I'm a lifelong resident of Broadboro, except for and uh uh I'm gonna try to be sure I wrote everything down so I wouldn't be repeating myself and just mumbling.

So thank thank you all for uh serving the town.

I think the town manager who is educated and being a town manager should be making the decisions, and the board should approve if they're not completely ridiculous.

In other words, I I think he should be the boss because he's trained for this, and you guys should be kind of you know, if he's not going off the rails, let him let him do his job.

That's my opinion.

Uh the RTM is good, but if everyone gets the vote, it's better.

So that new process that they're talking about, having a town wide meeting, and then everybody voting on it is better.

Um the the big things with me, I'm like the little little stuff, little details that you're dealing with, they don't mean anything to me.

You know, something costs more, it costs more.

If it costs less, it costs less.

But the big thing is like this trash contract, it is nuts to take a good a good solution, which we had and throw it away for something that's twice as expensive and stupid.

You know, you're not you're not recycling, you're not helping anything, you're not helping anybody, and it's it's costing everyone more to do this new thing.

And if someone came to me, if I was if I had a guy mowing my lawn, he says, he says, I'm not gonna charge, I'm gonna charge it double now because I'm getting a new machine, and I'm gonna have to use that, and this is the way it's gonna be, I just say thank you, but no, and that's what you should have said to the to the cat trash contractor.

It's almost like the mob coming in here and selling insurance to all the businessmen downtown, and you're just saying, okay, we're gonna let them operate like this in this town.

You shouldn't do that.

That guy, they have no reason to do what they're doing.

What was set up years ago with this uh with the recycling and uh and uh compost and the paid for bags, as far as I can see, it's it's good for all the way around for the environment, for the for the uh for getting rid of this stuff and for people's pocketbook.

If you want to if you want to play the game right, it's not gonna cost you much.

I use like one purple bag every three or four months, and I'm not breaking any rules, I'm just that's it.

So that's pretty cheap.

I think I don't know what I'm paying as for everything, you know, for the other stuff, but that's what it is.

Uh it just to get rid of that, you should just shouldn't do that.

And I think if you gave this decision to a guy that was you know that was dealing with contracts from for towns with contractors, he would just say, Yeah, no, we're not doing that.

But but he's got all you to listen to, and I think you should be listening to him instead of him listening to all of you.

I really think that he's trained for it, and uh okay.

So the next thing is uh you know that that just like you you we put uh you've got the fire department doing uh the emergency medical stuff, you could take a couple of guys from town and just get them started with a dunk truck and have them pick up trash and let it go for a week or two or whatever just to get it done so it's not sitting on the sidewalks, and then there's I know I do know of a guy in Keenan who wanted to take over a trash contract, and he does he does a lot of other you know, he's got a lot of other companies going.

You know, he'd be one person who would take something like that on.

But uh, you know, you you did it with uh with uh with the rescue workers in the fire department.

You could do it with the trash guys, those guys come down the street, I see them every week.

They're good workers, you know.

They're good work, every one of them.

They they just they go down the street, they throw the stuff in the trash in the truck.

If there's only one of them, the the guy gets out of the truck and helps if there's a bunch of stuff there's not one of them.

I've never seen anyone laying down on the job.

So you could get you know get those guys.

If you put the other the company out of business, you could buy them out at 10 cents on a dollar, you know, get their get their uh their place of operation, their trucks if they want to sell them, or just tell them to get the hell out of town.

We don't need them anymore.

You're not gonna do business with them because they're they're screwing up the a good process and they're gonna charge more for it.

Who who would do that?

You know, that's that's stupid.

That's just not a smart thing to do.

And the other thing is this guy, Paul Bulgar, I think he's done a great job of all the you know the remodeling and and the 580 and up at where the reformer is and all that stuff.

And if he wants to make a contract with the town of Hensdale or the state of New Hampshire, take over that bridge and do something with it, great, good, let him do it.

Good, let them do it.

You know, but but for for you to even have conversations about this town paying for maintenance and rent or buying the bridge from Hensdale or the town of or the state of New Hampshire is nuts.

Nobody wants to hear that.

Everyone in town says, what the hell are they talking about?

Why would they even discuss it?

It's crazy.

And I I believe that.

Nobody wants to own those bridges.

Not from here.

Like I said, if he wants to do something good with it, great.

But let him do it.

You know, he's a developer, and I'm sure I know whether it's a it's good a good thing or not.

And and the other thing is that having a 10% increase last year and a 10% increase this year.

You don't really, I mean, even if you have a 3% increase or 2% increase every year, 10 years, that's 20%.

You know, that's that's that's 30% or whatever the hell it is.

It's a lot of money.

And 20% in two years for no reason other than someone says, I'm gonna charge you more and give you less, throw away everything you've got, you've done good.

It doesn't make sense to go along with that.

And everybody that I know that's retired and has lived in this town for a good long time and paid taxes and worked and and participated, they don't want it.

Nobody wants that.

And that's it.

It's just it seems nuts.

And the other thing that one of the older select boards did was they made the decision to move the police station up to Put You Home.

And they they everybody was reassured that they could operate out of their vehicles with their computers and have access to you know whoever they need to contact and do the job in town.

So now all of a sudden you spend that money to build that place, and now you're gonna turn around and spend $700,000.

That's not chunk change.

$700,000 is a lot of money.

You add that up a lot, and that's why the budget goes up.

You know, I'm sure you know that.

And I'm sure you hear this stuff all the time, but it just doesn't make sense.

If they need, you know, I uh obviously if the police need a place to to dry out during a warm rainstorm, or if it's freezing cold outside, warm up, or if they got to store stuff or they gotta bring someone in and keep them there for a while, something small, something inexpensive.

But $700,000 after you've already moved, moved the whole operation up there and they're operating the way they are, supposedly, with no problems, it doesn't make sense.

You're undoing something that was done that was for the good, you know.

It just doesn't make sense.

And I I really think you should let this guy do his job and and kind of like be the rubber stamp or just you know, keep your eye on the ball and see what you know what's right, what's wrong?

But I think he can do it.

He's he's been hired by the town, everybody thinks he's doing a good job.

I do, I I certainly do.

And I think you guys are, you know, you're you're trying hard, but he's a professional, and you're the volunteers, and it's and it's it's running the opposite way, and I just think it's hurting.

And I think the other thing is that most people don't want to come to the select boardroom because because of that, you know.

I'm gonna be on camera, and I don't want that.

I don't want to be on camera.

I don't want tomorrow to read the newspaper and say I said this and I said that, whether it's whether it's right or wrong.

I just don't want to hear it.

I don't want to see it.

I I come in here to talk to you because, like I said, I I uh we in clear conscience, I don't want to go down and pay my taxes until I at least I have my say.

And I've had it.

Thank you for hearing me.

Good luck.

Thank you.

And I hope you strip that table and go right a story.

Got it.

Well, um, thank you all for coming.

Thank you so for your hard way.

Actually, TV public.

Thank you, John.

John, thanks for getting these meetings, like I was doing with profit for these retreat.

Great.

Truly great.

I thought you were came together.