All right, good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Let's bring the Brattleboro Select Board meeting of Tuesday, November 4th, 2025 to order.

We have had an executive session at 515 where no decisions have been made.

And we also had committee interviews.

And now this is the beginning of our regular meeting.

And so I'm going to ask John.

Are there was the meeting properly warned?

Yes, it was, Louis.

Thank you.

And are there adjustments to the agenda?

I do know of one.

Apparently, the copy of the minutes for October 16th that were included in your packet were uh previous draft or something, and they were the wrong um wrong version.

And so I would ask that if you we would pull that and uh just bring it to your next meeting.

Great.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Um let's see, Chair's remarks.

Um there's just a couple things.

I've been getting um some emails about um the situation with SNAP funds, and I know that the um Groundworks has extended uh demand at FoodWorks, and they're asking for donations.

I also know that um seeing Bridget's Kitchen are feeling the increase and are accepting donations, and that they'll soon be getting um food from Feed the Thousands.

And so uh I'm sure that loads and fishes, there's many places in town that provide food to the hungry, and we should all be aware of that.

And um, if you're in a position of need, please contact them.

If you're in a position to fund them, please contact them as well.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Oh, you.

Okay.

I have a few I have a few things if you want to hear them.

Yes, I do.

Um the uh first thing uh I wanted to let everyone know that the circus is in town, or I should say that the Vermont Circus Festival, the first annual circus festival in Brattleboro is uh currently in town.

And uh NECA has a slew of free community activities, workshops, and shows, including a clown crawl around town on Friday night, so look for that.

A figure drawing class with circus models, circus performances at area retirement homes, and even a seminar on the history of circus in Vermont.

So please check out NECA's website for more information and take advantage of that opportunity.

It's a great new festival for our town.

Uh the finance department is pleased to announce the release of its new open govilities portal.

Customers can now pay their water and sewer statements online by visiting the portal on Brattleboro.gov and registering registering their property account.

Uh there's also a tutorial video to help guide you through that process and next quarter tax and utilities payments are due by November 17th.

So try that thing out if uh if you wish.

The annual Phil and Mary Dunham ski skate snowboard and hockey equipment sale will be held this weekend at the Gibson Aiken Center.

Friday, November 7th.

You can bring in items for the sale that will happen on Friday.

Um, you can bring in items to put on sale on Friday from noon to 7 p.m.

Bring them to the Gibson Aiken Center.

And the actual sale is on Saturday, November 8th from 8 to 11 a.m.

if you're looking for new uh new winter equipment.

And then on Monday, November 10th, you pick up your uh receipts from anything sold and unsold items between noon and 6 p.m.

This event is co-sponsored by the Brattleboro Outing Club, the recreation and parks department, and the outing club uh retain 40 percent of the sale proceeds for special programming.

Um finally uh there was a comment at last meeting about leaf collection from the town website, and we learned that this m misunderstanding was generated by an AI bot that created false information about the town.

Um so just a reminder to everyone to please make sure you go to the actual Brattleboro.gov webpage for correct information about town programs, dates, and services.

Thank you, John.

You're welcome.

Other select board members who have comments or reports.

Amanda?

Speaking of leaves, I want to thank everyone who uh volunteered for our leaf collection we did on Saturday, November 1st.

Um I will Oscar, how many pickup trucks volunteered?

Twelve to 15.

And how many volunteer bodies volunteered?

Twenty plus.

Yeah.

And how quickly did it happen?

We got everything in 90 minutes, and I would guess 500 bags or more.

Yeah.

So it was a great uh we got a nice email back from Windham Solid Waste saying thank you for the material.

We love it for our compost, and uh it was great.

It was really great.

So stay tuned.

We might do another one.

Is that right?

Yes.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Yes.

Well, I'd like to call everybody's attention to the Brattleboro Town newsletter, which our communications coordinator has circulated.

Um last week's newsletter had updates on safety measures the town has taken.

The budget listening session that's coming up uh next week on Wednesday, November 12th at 6 15 at the library.

Has updates on parking, tips for managing the leaves in the fall.

Um department updates, including about the ski skate, snowboard and hockey equipment sale coming up this weekend, and opportunities for joining boards and committees.

Um you can subscribe to the Brattleboro Town Newsletter by searching for newsletter on the Brattleboro.gov website.

I also wanted to highlight the Town Matters podcast that hosted by our town manager here, which you can find also at Brattleboro.gov under the news tab.

I um have been having conversations with some residents who have expressed concerns about receiving no trespassing orders from public spaces while they were checking up on a friend's health, keeping a friend company, or simply being present in a public space.

And one person said to me, quote, I've been trespassed so many times trying to get warm, end quote.

So as I was asked to clarify by a member of the public, um, if the town has the authority to issue a no trespass order from public sidewalks and benches, uh I looking at I'm I'm not a lawyer, but from looking at the Vermont state statute, what I I didn't see anything about that, and so wanted to check whether with you um uh John or if it's a question for the town attorney.

Yeah, I'd be happy to talk with you about that sometime.

I mean I think that there's interest among members of the public in hearing it and would like to have that be a public discussion.

Well, then we should warn it for an item on the agenda if the agenda committee wants to find time for that.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you.

Um I'll say that a follow-up question just so that that can also be included in the agenda, is just that um people have mentioned that they were issued no trespass orders for being in the person of in the for being in the in the company of a person who was using illegal substances when they weren't themselves, or um when they were just like sitting on the on the step um somewhere, and they were um there were questions about what was the cause for that and what were the with the criteria.

So if that could be part of the conversation, that would be great.

Thanks.

Pete, are you good?

Yeah, sure.

Um so this Saturday again, just a quick reminder.

Uh from 8 a.m.

till noon, uh I will be conducting along with uh Jeremy Kirk, who's the pastor of the first Congregational Church uh UCC in West Brattleboro.

Um the first uh cranksgiving, which is a call out to the cycling community to come and deliver food and donations uh for the food shelf that they run there and overflow going, of course, to food works here in town.

Um again, that'll be it's not just we want to see you come on your bike, but you know, we're not gonna turn your way if you show up in your car either.

Uh you know, we've already been getting some um some nice donations at the shop down at Burroughs.

If you want more information on that, you can go to the borough's website.

That's where we have sort of been hosting this event.

And again, that goes on this Saturday from 8 a.m.

till noon.

You can just drop your food off or make your contributions.

We'd love to see you out there.

Thank you.

All right.

Um public participation.

This is the time in the meeting where people in the public can speak about an item that is not on this evening's agenda.

Is there anyone?

Yes, sir.

Come to the microphone and give your name and where you're from.

My name is Kendall Lucy.

I'm from Brattleboro, Vermont.

I've lived here a long time.

I work for um Brattleboro Common Sense.

As reported in the New York Sun January 16, 2008, Brattleboro Common Sense Director Kurt Dimes was a panelist at the Massachusetts School of Law Conference on War and Law, the legal opposition to war.

Where the conference broke new ground, the amount of time and a discussion focused on getting members of the uniformed officers corp to come over to their side.

Dime said, We have been trying to tell Congress don't fund the war.

We just got to go around them.

We talked to the military and say, hey, your oath is to the Constitution, not to the President.

At Bratterborough Select Board meeting in January 7, 2020, BCS volunteer Bruce Cole's proposed an ordinance to provide a legal defense fund for soldiers who defy unlawful orders and suggest it be named after the hero Major Hugh Thomas, who risked his life to stop a massacre in the Vietnamese village my land in 1968.

Today BCS uh proposes a lawful orders, ordinance for legal defense funds for such heroes and funds to advertise it.

Bratterborough approved Bush indictment resolution in 2008, which turned in international spotlight on Braterborough and the presidential war crimes.

The town felt an organ organized backlash, which overwhelmed the offices for days with death threats and threats to disrupt Vermont's uh tourist economy.

But Brattleboro stood firm.

There was also a flood of encouraging comments from around the uh country, and the resolution was strongly supported in the USA Today poll.

We are confident that the people of Bradborough will stay firm again.

We asked the board to enact this as an emergency ordinance under the chapter Article 3, Section 6 AA.

Uh the board have copies by email.

Umtuitive incentive due to the moral support of a military officers and its simple direct connection to them.

A forceful action to prevent crimes by President Trump's no kings.

People of Brattleboro honor and courage in the sacrifice of our troops.

We remind them that they took an oath of allegiance not to the presidents but to the Constitution of the United States, an enduring doctrines of liberties and justice of our nation.

We implore the vigilance against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and in accordance with the Newburgh principles, we exhort them to refuse unlawful orders and to file charges against anyone giving an order to start a war of aggression or comment any commit any war crimes.

We recognize the current.

Shall therefore create a fund of advice advertise the oath of ordinance and support fund for legal defense, each amount of 180,000.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Dick.

This doesn't fall under the categories of the finances that you're going to be discussing.

But as I was going through the material, uh looking at uh the 2025 budget actuals that ended June 30th, I found uh disturbing uh numbers.

I found that uh the town manager was overpaid by sixteen thousand four hundred and five dollars.

The HR director was overpaid by four thousand four hundred and ninety dollars.

Staff in her department was overpaid by a thousand dollars.

The assessor's office, the the assessor was overpaid five hundred and twenty-eight dollars.

Staff about two K.

The planning director was overpaid five thousand four hundred and fifty-two dollars, staff about twenty-four hundred dollars.

In the finance department, the staff was overpaid eight thousand eight hundred and sixteen dollars.

The police chief was overpaid eight thousand two hundred and sixty-five dollars.

Dispatch staff was overpaid thirty thousand four hundred ninety-six.

Public works director was overpaid nine thousand twenty-eight dollars.

Staff one hundred and eighteen thousand, seven hundred and twenty-eight dollars, and the park and recs director was three sixty-two.

That comes to over two hundred thousand dollars.

I know that there has to be some logical explanation for this.

And when I was looking at this, it really shook me about the credibility of numbers that we had last year and what these numbers are here.

So I hope somebody can give me some sort of solid answer to give me hope going through that the numbers that I just looked at here and why did it happen?

And did people have to pay back the money that they were overpaid?

Because I looked in next year's budget that's being presented.

I didn't see any adjustments except for two.

So thank you.

Well, Dick, that's quite an allegation that you've made in public, and I'm sure we will respond to you when we've had a moment to verify or disapprove your comments.

Randy.

What was your response?

I think quite hearing.

We'll get back to you.

That's what you always tell me.

Well, you're always so kind and gracious, Dick.

Thank you.

Hi, Randy Vlodge for Albert District 7.

Um, just a question that I think would be helpful in the budget process.

I found out going through all this the last few days.

On the finance department's portion of the website where there's budgetary information going back to 2014 till current.

Um it doesn't look like it's actually updated with actuals.

And if you wanted to go back and actually use that as a source to say how much has taxes gone up every year since then, or how much is this particular thing if you wanted to put in a spreadsheet and generate charts for instance as a comparison?

Um moving forward.

But moving forward, it'd be nice to have that update it when the budget is approved to show what was actually approved.

Thank you, Randy.

Is there anyone else?

Yes, uh.

We have Kurt Dimes.

Mr.

Dimes.

Hello, everybody.

Uh Kurt Dimes, Brattleboro Common Sense.

I would like to uh uh clearly read the whole uh lawful orders ordinance.

The people of Brattleboro honor the courage and sacrifices of our troops.

We remind them that they took an oath of allegiance not to the president, but to the Constitution of the United States, the enduring doctrines of liberty and justice of our nation.

We implore their vigilance against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

And in court in accordance with the Neureberg principles, we exhort them to refuse unlawful orders and to file charges against anyone giving an order to start a war of aggression or commit any war crime.

We recognize the courage such fidelity to duty requires.

The select board and town managers shall therefore create a fund to advertise the oath and ordinance and a separate fund for legal defense, each in the amount of one hundred eighty thousand dollars to be withdrawn from the unassigned budget balance.

And this is a sample of the oath of our military.

Patrick Smith.

Having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of private, for instance, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I'm about to enter.

So help me God.

Thank you.

Anyone else online, Seth?

All right.

Anyone else who'd like to speak?

Yes, ma'am.

Hi, I'm Lisa Marie from 69A.

Thank you guys for letting me talk for a second.

Um I just wanted to let you guys know that we have about anywhere between 50 on a slow day, which is rare, to around 95 people a day that walk through the doors.

Sometimes we get 120 a day.

And we have a feeling we're going to be needing a lot more food.

But we're working on that.

A lot of people are scared right now.

They're scared because there's no food stamps right now.

They're scared because they don't know, you know, what they're going to do.

There's a lot more people who are going to become homeless soon.

And with the amount of homeless that we have here now.

It's already too much.

Even one person homeless is too much.

But the problem is there is no place for anyone to sleep.

If they get caught sleeping outside on a bench on a sidewalk in a nook in a cranny, they are no trespassed, they are harassed.

Tents are kicked, tents are sliced.

There's children outside still.

There's a shelter, yes, 40 beds.

There's going to be a winter shelter, yes.

What that's going to be is not certain yet.

The Winston and Prouty, you know, that's great.

But there's still going to be a lot of people outside.

No matter what.

So I would love for the town, the cops, the Broadborough Public Works, whoever, um, to stop saying where we can't camp and where we can.

Because, you know, yes, I know.

A lot of people look at homeless people and see one thing or two things.

They see drugs or they see crazy.

Um, yes, there are drugs.

Yes, there is mentally uh challenging situations with people.

Um, but either way, everyone deserves a place to sleep.

Um business owners have come up to me and said, will you please ask people to stop defecating, not their words, on the sidewalk.

And I said, Well, I can't control the sidewalk.

69A can't control the sidewalk.

If you have a problem, ask the town for a porta potty or a public bathroom.

Um, you know, we we have more than just unhoused people that come in.

We have about 50% of the people that come in are housed.

And we try to help each and every person that who comes in to refer to services, to help fill up paperwork, to help make phone calls.

Um it's just really sad.

So I just wanted to give everyone a quick outdate.

Thank you, Lisa Marie.

All right, anyone else?

Well, we have a very full agenda, so let's get to it.

Um the consent agenda.

John, would you like to give us a thumbnail scare?

Sure.

Uh you have uh four items on the consent agenda tonight.

If you approve this agenda, you'll be approving the winter snow removal bid awards to Slate Rock Timber and Belco excavation for plowing in the parking lot.

You will be ratifying the application for a $683.80 cent grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services to subsidize delivery of materials between libraries.

You will be approving a second-class liquor license for Max Convenience Store, also known as Circle K at 564 Canal.

And you'll be approving an annual entertainment license for Hannah Ruth Massage and Movement at 139 Main Street.

Great.

Thank you very much.

Would someone like to make a motion?

I'll make the motion.

To accept the consent agenda as presented.

Great.

Peter has made a motion to accept the consent agenda as presented.

Select board members in favor of this motion, please raise your hand and say aye.

What's the matter?

We have a question from the public.

Don't we usually entertain that first?

Public participation, usually.

For items on the consent agenda?

It's either pulled or not.

So send go ahead, Mr.

DeGray.

Tell us what you want to tell us.

I was gonna ask you to pull the number one item, the snow plowing.

I have some questions about it.

Is there a select board member who wishes to pull item A?

I'm willing to pull item A from the consent agenda too.

All right.

It'll be discussed at the end of the agenda.

Peter, would you like to uh no?

Would someone else like to make a motion to accept the consent agenda as amended?

Yes, I'll move to accept the consent agenda as amended.

Thank you.

All select board members in favor of approving the consent agenda as amended.

Please raise your hand and say aye.

Anyone declining.

Peter.

Okay.

There we are.

401.

Um regular business.

All right.

The first order of business is the solid waste implementation plan presented by the public works staff.

So we have Dan Tyler and Pete Lynch.

Thank you, gentlemen, very much.

Hi, good evening.

So we're here to talk about the solid waste implementation or potential new contract.

I think Patrick was really heading up this.

I think probably the last time we talked about it here was before his departure in March.

Since then the project kind of came to public works.

Pete Lynch has been kind of heading it up with help from staff and local experts.

Tom Franks has been a huge help in the process.

Hundreds of hours have been spent kind of digging into the contract, getting up to speed, looking at different options and different configurations that might potentially save money on the contract or provide a better service to residents.

So we think we've landed in a place that kind of balances the cost of the contract with the service that people are used to seeing, which will more or less continue.

We have some slides tonight.

Pete's going to walk through the slides and kind of run everyone through where we've landed.

Great.

Thank you very much.

Pete?

Thanks, Dan.

Good evening, everybody.

Seth, if we wouldn't mind, would you bring the slideshow up?

So this is this presentation talks to solid waste in Brattleboro.

It talks about curbside pickup for three different streams.

That's for trash, for recycling, and for compost, and talks about disposal for all of those three as well.

We're going to spend some time talking about a couple different proposals and then where we, as Dan said, where we think we land with the whole thing and open it to questions and comments.

So a little bit of history, if you would, Seth.

In 2012, Act 148, which was the universal recycling law for in Vermont, was updated, and we started curbside pickup of recycling.

In 2014, you may remember that we started doing townwide compost uh curbside pickup.

And in 2015, there was a lot of discussion, and pay as you throw for trash was implemented in the town of Brattleboro.

Also, interestingly, in 2015, as a result of some of these initiatives, the volumes of trash going into our landfills was reduced.

In 2016, we went to every other week trash collection.

And then in 2024, Triple T sold their business to Casella, and at the same time we started talking about contracts for solid waste.

There was a lot of discussion over the next many months.

As Dan said, Patrick Moreland led a lot of that.

And then in the fall of 2024, the select board directed the town manager to finalize a contract with Casella for solid waste within the town of Brattleboro.

In about April of 25, um, after Patrick left, uh we started working, a group started working with Casella and by ourselves, working as Dan said, with uh a lot of local industry experts to develop some plans for um how we could um we could control uh spending in solid waste and um also still give the town uh great service for all three streams.

I would like to talk about some of the demographics of it could uh as we'll come back to those as the evening goes along.

So um in terms of solid waste in Brattleboro and the ordinances that are in place.

If you are a resident of a um house or a home that is four units or less, you are eligible for all three streams of pickup within the town of Brattleboro.

That number is about 4,388 residences.

And throughout the town, about 59% of those users are centrally located in downtown Brattleboro.

39 are in West Brattleboro, and that's west of I-91.

And then 2% live within the northern section of Brattleboro.

And we're going to come back to some of those statistics as the night goes on.

So what do we do for uh trash recycling and compost pickup monthly?

In Brattleboro right now, um we average about 59 tons of trash a month, about 60 tons of recycling per month, and about 46 tons of compost per month.

And that's pretty good.

If we look at the national um standards, and I don't know if you can see it on the screen, but on the right-hand column, um, about nationally, the standard is about 62 percent of what is picked up goes into a landfill.

And Brattleboro, thanks to great efforts, is down around 35 percent.

So that's a big difference from the difference from what is happening nationally.

So Dan talked about the seven previous months where we um tried to decide uh what we could bring back to the uh to the town that would that would um hold costs and what would be still uh a great service to the community.

And we looked at a lot of different things.

We looked at the creation of a transfer station in West Brattleboro.

We looked about we looked at the elimination of curbside pickup in West Brattleboro.

We looked at the elimination of townwide compost pickup, uh elimination of uh trash pickup and pickup on gravel roads.

Uh we looked at staying with the original proposal that Casella gave us in April, and we're going to talk about what that was in a few minutes, but basically it had them uh taken care of two streams by automation.

Uh we looked at several variations of um who buys carts and who maintains carts if we go to an automated system for recycling or trash or both.

We looked at multi-tier pricing for uh pay as you throw bags and that system.

And we looked at the potential for self-composting in remote areas of Brattleboro.

And lastly, we looked at the discontinuation of curbside collection altogether.

So during the seven-month period, um we really did uh take a great deal of time looking at all of those options to try and find something that we felt was most appropriate.

I spoke about um an April contract proposal, and I'm gonna talk about the current proposal that's on the table.

And I'd like to at this time talk about what the difference is between the two of them and maybe uh give a little context to some of the definitions about automation.

So in the April contract, uh Casella proposed to do uh curbside pickup of all three streams, trash, recycling, and compost.

Currently they pick up by hand trash recycling and compost.

And in their April proposal, uh they would like to automate recycling and trash.

Well, what is automated pickup mean?

It means that no longer does anybody get off a truck and go to the curb side and pick something up and throw it in the garbage truck.

Uh truck pulls up, the driver um has controls of an arm that comes out, it grabs a cart, it shakes the cart into the truck, sets the cart back down, and then the driver moves on to the next stop without anybody getting out of the truck.

Um Casella proposed that we would put um two sets of carts at uh 438 residents throughout the town of Brattleboro as part of that program, and that the town of Brattleboro would would manage those carts.

It also meant the pay as you throw system would go away as we knew it.

So there would no be there would no longer be any sort of um payment for the bags that people are using uh to put out on the street side.

And that really um uh took away the incentive for people to both recycle and to compost, because if there was uh no cost for the bag, it there was less opportunity.

We learned in 2015 that by um paying for bags, it incentivized people to both recycle and compost.

The current option, the what we're calling the September option, the one that we're wrapping up negotiations with Casella now, and we'll ask you at a later meeting to approve, has only one of those streams being automated.

So curbside pickup of recycling would be automated.

They would have a truck that came around to most residences or most uh places where people chose to recycle, pick up the bin, put in their cart, and drop it back down.

Pay as you throw will remain as it is.

I'm sorry, at every user location, there would only be one for recycling, and the users would enjoy the same the same type of disposal of trash that they've been using since we started with pay as you throw.

It provides more capacity for downtown cleanups, and the length of the contract is uh three years with the option for two two-year extensions.

What does that mean in cost in in terms of costs?

And we're gonna we're gonna break in the next slide.

We'll break down some of the the budget, but what does it mean for the taxpayers of Brattleboro?

In this particular proposal, um, in year one, the original or the April contract, we'd be paying out about two million, two point one million dollars, and under the proposal from September, we're looking at a 1.4 million dollar expense.

Interestingly, um the FY26 budgets was at 1.4 million dollars.

So the increase would be minimal if nothing from FY26 into FY27.

The total savings of year one in this specific case would be 666,000.

And um that's due to a couple things.

It's um uh it has to do with uh not putting out two sets of carts and only putting out one set and some pay as you throw equity.

The second year of the contract, um, we'd realize a savings of about 260,000.

The third year of the contract, we'd realize a savings of about $390,000, and over that three-year period, we would be looking at a 1.3 million dollar savings as compared to the April contract.

The next slide uh talks specifically about budget, and I'm sorry that the this is kind of tiny on the screen, so I'll walk through some of that.

At the beginning of our conversation, we talked about three separate streams of collection, uh trash, solid waste, and compost.

And so the current budget takes care of all of those.

In this budget, it shows Casella taking care of trash uh pickup under the pay as you throw system.

It has Casella taking care of uh recycling pickup under an automated system, and it talks about uh the town of Brattleboro, Department of Public Works uh taking over uh compost pickup within the town.

So the costs for trash collection are about 309,000 in FY27.

Recycling 348,000, um, and then the disposal thereof uh for trash would be about 11,000, and we estimate the recycling uh disposal cost at about 256,000.

Compost is not um the the first two streams I talked about, Casella picks up, and then in their facilities they take care of um of those products.

The recycling they manage the the entire recycling from curbside pickup to finish, and in trash pickup, they deliver to a landfill that they own.

In curbside disposal of comp I'm sorry, in disposal of compost, we're talking about uh delivering our compost uh to windham solid waste.

It's what we currently do, it's like we what we'd like to continue to do.

We have a really great working relationship with wind of solid waste.

They make a great useful product out of the composting that is brought to them on a weekly basis.

So that cost would be about $71,000.

We pay an assessment to Wyndham Solid Waste in this budget.

We include that assessment.

It's gone up slightly this year.

Their projection is we would be at about 93,000 to be a member of Windham Solid Waste.

In order to go to an automated system for recycling, we have to have specific carts out on the streets in the town of Brattleboro.

So every every user would be given a cart.

Those carts would be purchased by the town of Brattleboro and they would be maintained by the town of Brattleboro.

And so the first year capital costs are about 458,000.

And those include buying about 60% of the carts in year one and some equipment to support both taking care of carts and compost equipment.

The second year cost from capital would be $154,000.

And that would cover any remaining carts that we would have to purchase to bring users into the system that wanted to participate.

$39,000 would be put aside every year to for capital maintenance costs of the equipment that the town purchases to take care of carts and take care of compost.

As you know, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays Park and Recs, Department of Public Works, Police and Fire are downtown cleaning up downtown.

And the expenses right now are coming out of individual budgets in lines where we can keep up with those.

And so in this proposal, we add $12,000 to assist with those programs.

And then $201,000 would be set aside for town compost and leave collection.

And that would include two people to operate the composting truck for the Department of Public Works.

And the estimated revenue through bag sales, which we'll talk about in a few minutes, is $524,555.

And we talked earlier about the FY27 estimate of $1.4 million out of the budget.

So what is what are the what does recycling look like to the town, to the budget, and to the users?

Firstly, for the town.

Recycling, we said is automated, and so we have to have specific carts for automation.

The industry standard talks a lot about using 96 gallon carts, and we've heard feedback from a lot throughout town.

And to start with, we would be at 64 gallon carts, it seems more reasonable for our users.

And so we go to an every other week pickup of recycling, and that would be using the 64 gallon carts that are on two wheels that you can walk out to the curb side for pickup by Casella.

This affects 4,388 potential users.

Right now, people are using in a lot of cases bins, and we would be moving away from bins and only accept things that were put in the carts.

And then the startup cost for uh DPW is $91,000.

The total annual cost is $617,000.

Now, how does it affect the user?

We would ask everybody to move to the cart system.

Casella will only pick up what they can hook on to that's in the actual carts.

So that would eliminate the use of those small bins that people put out on curbside now.

The users would not have to pay for the carts initially, but they would have to sign up for the program.

We were to deliver a cart to every resident that is eligible in the system that would like to participate, but we need to know who you are, and we're going to spend a lot of time over the next four or five months in public forums, trying to connect with all of the user base to get people signed up who want to be part of that program.

So that's recycling.

Trash.

And so 4,388 users would be eligible for that program as well.

It's what we're doing now.

And the annual cost would be approximately $420,000 per year.

As I said, there are no carts in pay as you throw, it would be those purple and yellow bags that you're currently using, the the 32 gallon purple bags and the 15 gallon yellow bags.

In our proposal, we want to we are asked, we are trying to equal our expenses with our revenue.

So right now, all taxpayers are paying for the trash system, and this proposal, those users of the systems would be the sole uh payers of that portion.

So there is a bag increase in our proposal it moves uh cost of bags 2.25 times what they are now.

Uh so a $2 yellow bag would be $450, and a $3 purple bag would move to $6.75 per bag.

We hope that this would incentivize a lot of users uh to even shift further away from filling our landfill with trash, landfills with trash, and taking advantage of our recycling and compost system.

Uh we said earlier that the national standard was a lot higher for trash than it is in Brattleboro, and it would be our expectation that those the results of the 2015 initiative would take it another step forward, and it is written in the laws throughout the state of Vermont.

Cost of bags.

Thanks for keeping up, Seth.

I appreciate that.

Seth did a wonderful job of helping us put these this uh presentation together, so thanks for that.

Um if you use one bag per week, and it's a yellow bag, you're gonna pay you're gonna now pay about $19.48 per month.

If you use one purple bag a week, you're gonna spend $29.25 a month.

And when we survey the haulers, uh the the average uh monthly fee for a haul a private hauler to come to your house and pick up is about fifty dollars.

At two bags a week, it would be $38.97 for the yellow bags, and for purple it would be $58.50.

And so we start to even out on purple bags, and um while two bags a week doesn't seem like a lot, um what we are hearing from many is that about three kitchen bags fit into a purple bag.

Not always the case, but that's what we're hearing largely.

So on a weekly basis, one purple bag could equal uh three of those kitchen bags.

Compost.

Bins is a big or carts is a big change for the town of Brottleboro and for the Department of Public Works, and while the residents won't see a huge impact or shift in compost, um public's work, public works will.

So in this option, um public works takes on compost, and they do that with two people on the truck full-time, and that third person that we talked about taking care of cart management to work with them uh to keep up with the flow.

Again, same number of users.

The implementation cost for this is 181,000, and the annual cost is just under $300,000 per year.

I'm going to uh so if for those of you that can read the slides, um it says in the first bullet for impact on users is a requirement for anybody that is composting to move to those 13-gallon green bins that or carts that we're using that you see all over town.

Um we realize that that may be problematic for some.

And so that we're we're strong at this point, we're strongly recommending that people move from many five-gallon pails to a 13-gallon uh cart for ease of pickup and for safety reasons.

Um for those that aren't able to, we are talking about is there a sticker system that we can put on in place so that if a resident continues to use um five-gallon pails that are covered, that there's some sort of sticker that identifies that so when the compost truck drives by, they know that in fact that is something that that goes into compost.

Um and lastly, again, uh there's no for the users, there's very little change in this system, and and we like that fact.

So it took us seven months to get here to sit in this room to start uh public um these public forums.

Um a lot of intense conversations over that seven month period.

Uh what we do realize is as we become far more educated in um solid waste that the implementation of this system will take an additional probably close to seven months.

There's a huge amount of work that has to be done for us to hit day one of automated pickup and compost pickup.

Automated for recycling.

So what does that look like in terms of timeline?

Uh we're going to come back to the board a couple three times in the next month and a half for updates and for approvals on different items.

Um tonight is is night one of opening it up to the public.

Um we're going to start developing a cart sign-up plan.

We need to hold many public meetings from now until mid-January to start signing people up for carts to do that public awareness of what changes there are in the system.

We need to write RFPs and um and award somebody the contract of selling us up to 4,388 carts and then distribution of those.

We'll need to change some ordinances.

So we'll be coming back to you folks as a board with some ordinance changes, and we hope for that to happen in the middle of January for the first reading.

We'll need to order equipment, and we'd like to think that we could get that done in February.

Uh we will need to hire staff to um to be on the compost truck and to take care of uh cart management.

Um we hope to have the final compost plan in place in March and start day one of pickup sometime in May or June.

And we'll define that with Casella over the next couple of weeks as we bring a contract back to you for your signature.

Umce we've done the initial implementation, we will then give people the opportunity to do a couple of things.

One is to uh swap out carts if the cart they are using is the wrong size, and to sign up for programs once they're more familiar with those.

Uh so while June 1-ish is our goal for um for the actual start date of the of the program.

Um we will carry over at least the the following six months uh to ensure implementation is is working well and to assist those people that are struggling with uh size of carts or or other issues.

I realize I've thrown a whole lot of information at you all at once.

I appreciate you allowing me to take the time to walk through this stuff and both Dan and I are happy to answer questions or comments that you might have.

Great, Pete.

Thank you so much.

Um first, yes, I acknowledge that it is a lot.

Um let's let's have a discussion this way.

First we'll open to the select board members any questions they have about the proposal and then to the public for questions.

And I just want to note that this is the first reading as you said and that there may be changes that go into the final um proposal when you come back to us.

So first let me ask my colleagues do you have questions?

Should we start on this side?

I think well first of all I just want to appreciate your persistence in pursuing cost savings as well as minimizing disruption to our residents.

Thank you for all of your hard work on this.

I wanted to check on the cost of the recycling bins.

How much and forgive me if you already include this but what would the cost be to residents for a recycling bin and I think you said the new ones would hold 64 gallons and what would what is the current those current green recycling bins that we use what is the current capacity of those.

Great question.

So we'll start with um what is what is the curbside uh recycling look like 64 gallon carts we can bring one in for you to look at it's I would have to look to see what the exact volume difference is between the bins we're we're looking at now but it's it's several times that maybe four or six times that I think last year Daniel Quipp fit inside it.

Yeah.

Just for a reference point.

We it was so it was it was recommended to us that we start with 96 gallon carts and there was a lot of pushback on that rightly so people are anxious about those carts.

And so we're going to start with 64s.

In terms of cost um in the initial round there's no cost to the user uh we will put out an RFP for carts um we're looking at that price uh to be about $350,000 worth of carts in the in um in totality of which about half of that the first year and 154,000 in the second year the pricing of carts we believe is going to end up somewhere about $80 a cart.

We're hoping to find better savings when we go out for an RFP than than that but that's kind of what we're looking at right now.

So the town the town would take on that cost rather than individual users.

That's true.

And so um we've talked about a number of payment methods I don't know if that's something that John you would like us to get into today.

So one of the things that the Select board talked about previously was taking some amount of money out of the revolving loan fund to support the purchase of those carts it looks like we will have some money at the end of uh this fiscal year out of that initial 143 I'm sorry 1.4 million dollars that you guys allocated and voted on to put towards start-up costs and that might include some of the cart so I can't tell you right now until we have a firm budget in place with with Casella and we've sent out the RFPs exactly what the what the costs would be that would be uh pushed towards uh revolving loan and what would be absorbed in the current budget and the reason we have a little extra money is because all this time of not signing a contract with Casella has uh kept the costs lower and like we'd like to do that forever but we certainly understand that you know they've been very patient with us and allowed us to to continue with a non-contract at numbers that are pretty low.

Thank you.

Peter nothing at this point.

Great Oscar?

Yeah I just want to thank you both and everyone else who worked on this we handed you guys a really difficult problem and the information you have given us and the presentations you have given us have really just been outstanding.

And if this all proves out you'll have sing you'll have saved the town huge amounts of money and done a great service for everyone.

So really thank you all for your work on this.

Dan said it in the beginning but I I I'd like to reiterate again you know uh Stephen Dotson has been a great help through this whole program.

Not only has he worked with us on um what implementation might look at, but um I think he's shaken shaken, shaked every tree to see if he can find some grants that would be applicable to what we're doing.

He's he's really been uh a really huge supporter and spent some hard time.

And the second, I I mentioned Seth before, Sut's helped us with presentations.

He's on board for the public uh presentations that it will go forward.

Tom Franks has spent an inordinate amount of time working side by side, trying to vet every single thing that we're looking at.

He's he's the guy that always said, what if, or why won't this work, or what are the hurdles, what are the obstacles?

Tom's done a a really amazing job, and he couldn't be with us tonight, but he certainly does deserves a lot of public credit for that work which he's done.

Absolutely.

Amanda.

Um I just want to acknowledge that in this uh public process um and working with us as a select board, you have to repeat yourself so many times over the same topic, and you do it with grace, and you do it um so professionally, and I appreciate that so much, Pete, and I appreciate and applaud the DPW's willingness to take on the compost program.

Um I believe that it's going to be a model program for diverting organic material from our landfills and uh a model in the state.

So I thank you.

So uh again, I thank you.

As I thank you before, and I'll thank you again.

Uh really, really nice job of examining from every angle.

And um I know the cost for the bags are going up, but I I think that that is um justified in terms of of uh bringing the costs up to date and um having a user fee, these are all things that uh the public has asked for.

And uh of course they didn't ask for the bags to go up, but they did ask for user fees, so I I think it's uh a necessary element, and I thank you for it.

Um Mr.

Hennessy.

Oh, thank you.

Ivan Hennessy Browlboro Vermont.

Um could we get a brief rundown of the carts?

Uh so weight, for instance, I know that I have neighbors that um have to move their recycling very small bits at a time because they don't have a great amount of strength.

They have stairs, things like that where they store their um recycling and bring it out piecemeal to um to the curb when it's temper pickup.

Um I'm sure that this has all been thought out, but what kind of um weatherproofing is on these carts to keep all that cardboard from getting just completely soaked or the cart filling up with water.

Um and I I think the weight and the the weatherproofing are the things that I was most thinking about, but some sort of description of the actual physical characteristics of the cart would be great.

Thank you.

I've Ivan, you know, I've talked to my neighbors as well, and they um everyone has concerns about the change and the size.

I think uh people will be pleasantly surprised by the wheels.

I I know that my very dainty elderly sister, who would hate to be described that way, um has these huge um carts in in California where everything is on automated trucks, and she has no no problem at all.

Um I understand that the the stairs might be an issue.

But the thing that struck me with my neighbors is that um people can help each other to find solutions.

And I think the town as a whole can help each other to find solutions for you know where shall I put these carts, how will they be managed in the snow, and so forth.

I mean, you bring up excellent points, and I'm going to ask the board about the size and the weight and so forth.

But I just I just think that it's um a neighbor-to-neigh um activity that you know uh just as we look out for our elderly neighbors in any instance, we do it in this matter as well.

Pete, do you want to answer Ivan's questions?

Yeah, sure.

So um we had an opportunity to uh go to Plainfield, Plainfield, New Hampshire, thank you, um, who just implemented a system like this.

Yes.

Um, and they offered uh 4864s and 96s, and then did swaps as they went.

And surprisingly, they uh I'm told they a lot of people chose a bigger cart.

Um we asked the same question.

Now we only asked it of a couple people.

We didn't ask it of uh globally but this is this system is being used globally.

What you know, how does this affect the the person that uh struggles um to walk or you know the uh I think the example used where they take them out a bit at a time.

The 64 gallon cart has a lid on it, you open the lid, you put whatever recycling in there, um weight isn't really an issue, and then you can roll it down stairs or or your driveway.

So this was the answer we got when we asked the question.

And this was of a specific person that was really involved in this and the answer was my 90-year-old mother has a 96 gallon cart that she puts out every other week, and we find it with very little difficulty.

That doesn't mean it's going to be the case for everybody, but it was an interesting it was our it was our concern as well.

That's why we did back down to 64 based on what we we heard around town with the option to to move up to 96 as people find the greater importance in recycling.

Thank you, Pete.

Yes, Heidi.

Heidi Fisher Brattleboro.

Um just a question about sort of looking in the future.

If I think this is a great improvement from what was the initial proposal, but does this wed us to Casella if we're using their system of carts, and we the town purchases over 4,000 carts for the town, and then in that three-year gap or maybe plus two, plus two more, but maybe not if their prices go up too much.

What do we do with these 4,000 carts that then don't fit the next provider's system?

Good question.

And we have looked into that, and I'm sure Pete or Dan can give us an answer.

Yeah, I think generally people, you know, other providers are also moving towards automated, and it seems that every manufacturer's cart will work with the automated pickup system.

Um, you know, we we asked that same question.

We actually have looked for carts through like municipal surplus auction sites and stuff, and uh you don't find a lot of them for sale.

It seems that people are reusing them with different vendors.

Um Casella ensures us that within 18 months we'll be back here talking about switching trash to automated because everyone's gonna love it so much.

Don't know if that's the case, but you know, I I think the carts are are the way people are going, but we also maybe we don't want to go that way in three years, and and this was a lot smaller lift than to commit to both streams and having 4,388 times two carts.

So Susan Bellville, Brattleboro.

Um so uh it was talked about what a private contractor uh charges for pickup per month at $50.

Uh my question is, is that every week or as what the town is proposing every two weeks?

Um the other questions I have are around the carts.

The composting cart um I had to pick one up once because somebody ran off with mine, and I believe it was $25.

Is that a fee that's going to um become a burden on people who don't currently have those same carts that the town wants to have everybody use?

Um and what is the cost of the carts for the recycling if someone wants more than one, or if um theirs gets stolen or damaged, um what that cost would look like.

And the other question has to do with the um 4,388 assigned users.

Or is that just the users and not the commercial people who have to also pay the taxes but have to supply their own private pickup for their trash and recycling and composting?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

That's four questions.

The one is an outside contractor comparison.

Do you have that?

So I I don't know as I'd be prepared to say whether it was every week or every other week for the 50.

I I would guess it would be every week, but I think every a lot of them are every other week, alternating compost and solid waste.

So I made some phone calls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The next is the the uh a new compost container, $25?

Uh no, the compost containers are $35 currently.

And we pay just under that at the town.

We aren't going to require that people go to those 13-gallon carts.

We're going to strongly recommend that.

Um that burden has been on the user, and in this case, that would be continue to be on the user.

The uh I'll reiterate though the recycling carts are not the responsibility.

The initial implementation are not.

And your question was the next question about damage, or was that part of this one?

Yeah, I think the next one was a damage and replacement.

So, in terms of damage written into the contract uh with Casella, um any damage that's created by Casella in the process of picking up uh would be their responsibility to replace any cart that is damaged by uh the Department of Public Works also would be our responsibility at no cost to the user.

I will note that every cart has its own individual serial number.

So if there's concerns about carts getting stolen or confused, we will, as part of the rollout system know what address gets what serial number.

And then the last question of Sue's was is that 4,388?

Is that the users or is that the town as a whole?

Different for each stream, right?

Yeah.

You want me to do that?

So it's different for each stream.

Um trash.

Uh the right now we project in in 20 FY27 that both the curbside pickup and uh disposal of trash is uh going to cost us uh 420,000 dollars.

And in the new system for pays you throw bag costs, that is all the those prices equal out so that um the taxpayer is not paying for the trash service, the user is for recycling and compost, that is uh uh the entire tax base of Brattleboro paying for it.

So Sue was asking also uh about whether this number subtracted out the um the multi-unites.

The 4,388 is eligible, yeah.

Eligible users.

That's right.

And and we have the breakdown, we're willing to give it for how many how many four-unit buildings there are, how many three, how many two, and then the single family.

Okay.

So um so I will tell you that I have had trash back cans stolen, um, including my compost trash can.

Having to replace it is not a prospect I enjoy.

Um and would the town replace that if it was taken?

If I provided some proof that it was taken, I wouldn't have to buy one back again.

We'll have to look into that too.

Okay.

Thank you.

Randy.

Hi, Randy Vlad District 7.

Uh I'm just gonna iterate, like I said at the listing session, I'm not for this.

I think that the amount of time we've spent already, if you added up all the man hours, volunteer hours, staff time, it's it's an incredible amount of money.

They did a lot of work, and I'm not disputing that.

But another seven months of more money, more time.

We already have problems with overtime in other departments.

We have problems with staffing, we have problems with equipment.

Um the costs, it's just it's always going to go up.

I think you should look at either creating a franchise, have independent haulers, let people do their own bidding, get it out of the taxpayer realm.

Um, you know, if you need to make a little money on that from a franchise, great.

I know a lot of towns do.

The bins are awesome.

I've had bins, gosh, since the 80s.

We had bins in Philadelphia and Bucks County in Pennsylvania.

Bins are very easy.

That part is everybody will love that.

I don't know if I'll love in West Brattleboro because I have to put in my truck, come down an eighth of a mile, put it on Route 9.

I don't know where the six or seven houses that use that spot, how they're going to line them up and get out our driveway, but that's a whole other problem.

But I would urge you not to do this.

Look at all the money, add it up.

You can do it just man hours that we spent already, future man hours.

Cost of buying all these cans and the recycling, the compost, all the streams, other towns outside of Brattleboro do this, and it's private haulers.

So why can't we, and why don't we take it out of the budget?

Our staff has an incredible amount of stuff to manage now.

They're overwhelmed.

Look at the work-life balance for our staff.

We're adding yet another thing to put in to manage.

With more pitfalls in overtime, more pitfalls, if we only have one truck and it breaks, there's no pickup for compost.

You know, the carts getting stolen, all these different things.

We we have enough to worry about in Brattleboro with what we already have our arms wrapped around, let alone creating more expense, more stuff for our staff, more insurance, more just think of the list.

I would urge you to rethink this and look at a more efficient way to get it outside of government.

Don't increase the size of the town staff in government anymore.

Thank you.

Uh Jenna?

Sorry, I'm going to leave my video off because I'm home and not dressed up.

I have uh three main questions.

Uh the first uh is that I would really like to have a better understanding of the capital costs and the operating costs for uh the Department of Public Works taking over a compost pickup.

Um it's my understanding that Department of Public Works has not been uh handling compost pickup.

Is that true?

That is true.

And it's okay, so if that's the case, then I don't imagine that the Department of Public Works has the capital equipment necessary to start this up.

And I haven't heard any specific discussions of uh what's the what is the cost going to be in terms of trucks that need to be purchased, equipment that needs to be purchased, personnel that are going to need to be hired, because I'm sure that you know they are already operating with the number of people that they need to to do the work that they already have.

Um the second concern that I have is the fact that the pay as you throw bags are going to increase by 2.25 times in cost.

And I understand that um there is a cost to pollution.

I am very much an environmentalist, and I would like to see less things go into uh waste.

Um however, the logistics of this are that we are currently selling these bags in packs of five.

And so a pack of yellow bags is ten dollars now, and a pack of purple bags is fifteen.

And now we're talking about increasing that to 2250 and 3375, was it?

Uh sorry, I put my calculator away.

Um but it's a huge amount of money for people to lay out all at once.

Um, for people like me who don't really put out trash that often to begin with because I live alone and I'm very conscientious about my recycling, my usage, and my composting.

Um, that that's a big chunk of money to have to spend all at once.

Um I would like to uh hear some discussion of how we can possibly mitigate that and change the system of how the bags are actually sold in this town.

Um currently the only place where people can buy a single bag is at town hall.

Uh lastly, um if it's if I'm hearing correctly, uh the trucks themselves are capable of picking up 48 gallon containers.

Um we are not a suburban community like uh much of the rest of America, and while it might be appropriate to have 96 gallon containers in a lot of places like where my mother lives in Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, um we are a very old town with very small properties and not a lot of setback, and I don't see how where I live, I'm going to be able to fit one or two possibly 64 or 96 gallon containers at some point in the future.

I would like to see us examine the possibility of making the 48 gallon containers available to people who want a smaller size.

Again, I live alone, I'm very conscientious about my usage and my recycling.

And so I do not need a 64-gallon container.

So I know how much bigger a 64-gallon and a 96-gallon container is going to be.

And I'm not going to need a bigger one.

And I'm sure that there are a lot of other people in this town where we are very conscientious about our trash.

You know, we're leading the nation in how much we divert from solid waste.

So do we really need 64 and 96 gallon containers?

I have to question that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Gemma.

Pete, do you want to try and answer some of those questions?

Sure.

You already want to take care of the capital.

So I'd like to talk about you asked about capital costs and uh budgetary costs.

So the capital costs to start composting, which includes a compactor truck, a garbage truck, the upfit, uh software for uh some of the computer stuff and some equipment is 181,500.

The capital um startup for the bins or the carts is $91,000, and that includes a pickup truck that would uh be able to manage uh to work on management of carts.

It would also have the ability to um go out and pick up compost if the um if the compost truck, the packer truck is down.

So that the combo the both combined is a $273,000 uh initial startup cost, and that was included in um when we talked about startup cost and we talked about the revolving loan fund, use of the revolving loan fund for uh carts, uh those numbers were included in year one mostly um and then 154,000 for carts in year two.

In terms of what is the budget for the Department of Public Works that would include uh three people.

Um the compost budget yearly, which includes staff salaries, um fuel, gas, uh, vehicle maintenance, uh small tools, safety equipment, office supplies, uh leaf collection, and uh odor control, as well as downtown cleanup uh comes to uh uh 227,000 dollars and for the cart um, which is uh um a single person with all of those things I just spoke about equals about 110,000 dollars.

Um that combined cost is um uh 350.

And that 350 I'm sorry.

That 350 um includes in year one um $39,000 dividend would uh flow into every following year towards capital replacement um so that when we hit the replacement years, we would already have the money available and not have to go to uh a large uh capital request for replacement.

Thank you.

Um I think well we can address the cost of the bags uh another time.

And um, is there it was there any potential for 48 gallon?

So yeah, the the answer is yes.

Um there is a single vendor in New England that does sell 48 gallon carts.

It may be Northeast, it may not be New England that sells 48 gallon carts.

Um they can be available.

Um so there is the potential.

Uh Casellus trucks are able to pick up a 48.

Um it's our recommendation that we start at 64 and then move off of 64 as people found it more appropriate to go to another size.

Thank you.

Uh Randy.

Just a clarification on Gemma, just that it it's every two weeks now for recycling, not every week.

So just that she's using the right calculus and deciding if she has room.

Thank you.

Dick.

Thank you, Dick DeGray.

Uh thank you for all the work that you put into this, whether I agree with it or not.

I'm still not there.

Uh the 4388, what percentage of that is the users of the town?

Is that 48 percent?

Is it 50 percent?

Uh that's one question.

And why did you put 12,000 in this budget for downtown cleanup?

I do believe, correct me, uh, I thought I saw something in the in the budget for numbers for 2027.

Uh I think I saw something in there, right?

That's thank you, John.

Um then your implementation cost, uh, the annual cost of 298.

Did you say that there's going to be three people working?

And how many days are they going to be doing the compost pickup?

It doesn't I don't know how many days it takes now to do the compost pickup, but I don't believe it's five days a week.

And so what would those staff members that were hiring, what would they be doing?

Uh and I had one more question.

Uh is the first 9% percentage.

I will say I'm glad that the cost of the bags has increased to shift the cost from the non-users to the users.

I mean, there's a part of me that says if this was a uh a user fund just like uh parking and or water and sewer that most people would probably uh shift over to a private hauler because uh the subsidies that the non-users pay into this is uh quite substantial.

So I do believe that shifting the cost of the bags over to the users uh because the people that rent uh in units of five or more, they're paying rent that they have to buy, they're paying for trash hauling in their uh apartment complex, and then part of obviously what they pay in taxes, uh that's paying for trash for somebody down the street.

So I thank you for that.

Thank you.

All right.

Pete, you guys want to answer any of these questions if you're able?

A little unclear on the first one with the 4388 what you were looking for there.

What I'm actually looking for is is okay.

Uh how many units do we have in town, household units?

Is it uh a thousand or whatever?

What percentage of 43?

This is the total number of people that are using it now.

How many people don't use the system?

Is it what percentage of the town doesn't get trash pickup?

Uh there's a lot of houses, right?

And uh, I mean apartment buildings and commercial buildings in the town.

So what how does that square percentage-wise?

We have that really we'd have to bring it back.

Yeah.

We have the information, not not tonight.

Yeah.

All right.

So um I know Dick asked a lot of questions.

We're gonna we're gonna be back on the 18th of November to have another session, and so these questions, these more detailed questions can be answered.

Um, but we do have other pressing things on the agenda.

So let's wrap that up.

And again, um invite you all to give your comments.

You can send your comments to us on the select board, and uh they can be answered on the 18th.

On to oh, gentlemen, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Most appreciated.

Let's talk about the FY27 proposed general fund budget.

This is you.

Yep.

Um, so tonight is uh sort of the kickoff on talking actual numbers for the FY27 budget, uh, which will be starting next July.

Uh I'm gonna give a high-level summary this evening, and then uh detailed budget sessions uh for each department will happen uh later in November and December, and then the board can also will also have time in January to make any additional adjustments that they'd like to make to this proposed budget.

So overall, this budget maintains core municipal services while holding the overall property tax addition to around 4.4 percent.

Um highlights of the budget are um first of all a number of things that but this budget does not have in it.

Again, the assistant town manager position, which we don't have in this year's budget, the finance director, which we don't have in this year's budget, the IT coordinator, and the data analyst, all those four pretty significant positions are not in this FY27 budget, and we are finding other ways to manage those needs that the town has.

It has 1,100 extra on-call hours at the library, and it has the public works staff needed to take on the compost collection in case the board decides they want to go with the proposal you just heard about.

Before a lot of that was in central central line items, so you couldn't really see what all of the benefits were for uh particular department.

And so we've never been able to see what the true cost of, say, delivering the assessor's office is or you know what what that all takes in the town budget.

Um other highlights or things in this proposed budget are uh we we are proposing a 2 percent cost of living adjustment for all the staff.

We are also proposing a new health care provider and adjustments to uh employee costs in health care.

That's um helping us maintain um a lower tax rate.

We are uh proposing a reduction in human services to balance affordability and service sustainability.

Um there is an increase to capital investment by about 30 percent over this year's budget, but it's still underfunded by uh around 500 to 800,000, depending on how you look at it.

Um we are uh on December 2nd when staff come back to talk about the public works budget.

We are also going to be uh discussing with the board a the potential for a supplemental request to cover some of that capital budget gap to see if the board wants to present that as a separate item to voters.

Um the five-year capital investment plan that is included with this budget in the materials that you have shows what is on the horizon and how we hope to kind of keep the increases in capital.

Actually, they they do go up a little bit for a couple of years, but then they can start to come down again, and that's just how all of the equipment replacements are falling and um the projects that we know are on the horizon.

On revenues, uh fees have been adjusted wherever we can to reflect the cost of the actual service delivery, uh and that is most particularly as we were just discussing in solid waste, but also in planning.

So uh that is increasing some of the revenues that we expect to have through uh uh in the budget.

There is also a 3 percent increase expected in EMS reimbursements over the FY25 actuals that we're seeing.

Um we did a somewhat conservative estimate on local option taxes, reflective of just a sense of where that could be going.

Um it hasn't been rising as quickly as it had in the past.

Um this leaves us with an $861,000 increase in property tax needed, which is 4.4 percent over the FY26 property tax that was necessary for this current budget.

So that's the proposal for the FY27 general fund budget.

It keeps the town working for its residents, but in a balanced way.

And so for example, we'll look at police and fire on November 18th.

We'll look at public works, the library and wreck and parks in depth on December 2nd, and all the other budgets on uh December 16th.

Uh also, as was mentioned, there will be a budget listening session on Wednesday, November 12th.

So if people feel like this meeting is not the format where they want to weigh in, we will also be having a session next Wednesday at the library, and um hopefully that's another way that people can uh chime in on their thoughts on this budget.

So that's what I have for you tonight.

Thank you very much, John.

And thank you for all this work.

Um let's start with the um my colleagues on the select board.

Uh if they have questions or comments for John, and then we'll open it up to the public.

And um I note that you know there is no motion and no decision, of course, is going to be made tonight.

Amanda, do you want to start?

Sure.

I appreciate the the cat the I appreciate the time and uh conscientiousness uh regarding the memo.

I think it's a great start to the process.

Um we are going to have lots of opportunities to continue the conversation.

So I'm just gonna say thanks for getting the ball rolling.

Oscar.

Thank you.

Um I am going to save a lot of the detail stuff like you suggest, John, for the department reviews.

I think that makes more sense, but I do want to call out a couple different things that uh I'm interested in talking about as we go forward.

Um we're going to we'll definitely have to discuss the reductions to the human services budget.

That's going to be we're going to hear from the public on both directions on that.

Um certainly the staffing increases I'll need to hear more about before moving forward with that.

I think dispatch and finance are specifically two places where we made cuts last year in an attempt to save money.

And if that isn't panning out, then I'm definitely open there.

Um but I'll need to hear more on the other ones.

And then I'll want to talk more about the uh capital the underspending on capital and paths forward on that and how we feel about that.

That's another big area.

The EMS revenue, I want to make sure we're still conservative enough on that number.

It's it's bailed us out the last couple of years in some interesting ways, and I want to make sure we don't overcorrect based on the pace from this year, so we can talk about that.

And I think those are those are my top levels.

So thank you.

But I do want to say really I know this was a ton of work, and I'm very appreciative for it.

And I think there are things about the format and the memo this time that are big steps forward, and I'm I think you have taken our feedback, and I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Oscar.

Gentlemen, to my left.

I'll chime in.

I similarly appreciate, John, what you have done in terms of really taking that priority around fiscal responsibility that we talked about at our summer retreat, and I can see that here that you're making efforts to see where we can be responsible and as well uh at the same time minimizing disruption to the services that our uh neighbors expect.

Uh proposal to continue with the um with not having a finance director, but I presume continuing with the contract services that we have and interested in also hearing your assessment around that because we've said that financial responsibility and health is such an so important to our town.

How does that impact?

And what do you what do you imagine being the best investment long-term, kind of any guidance that you have around that?

I'm thinking beyond beyond this year as well.

We're continuing to see high overtime.

And you know, and and also where we had said that we had, I think, cut half of a dispatch position in this fiscal year as with the idea that we were trying to cut from the where there were biggest expenses and the biggest biggest departments where there could be room for making some cuts.

So if we're returning that, um where are there are there other opportunities for savings in those larger departments?

Um would also have some questions about essentially cutting in half contributions to human services in a year where we are seeing the really uh major federal cuts and precarious um situation we're seeing like food security and people really concerned about their health care.

So curious to see if there's um where we might be able to think strategically about helping meet the need of folks in our our town.

Um thinking about safety also, like what are the ups.

Are there are there some of these organizations where we really would like to be able to support for the kind of the upstream safety considerations like um are the things that can reduce the load on emergency services?

Um so those are some of the things that I'm thinking about.

Um and then I wanted to also just ask if you could explain um about the department versus TM budget columns and what that um what those what those mean.

Yep, um sure.

So uh in both the five-year capital plan and the uh proposed budget, uh the process that we used was each department brought forward their thoughts on what would be the best from what they're hearing the community wanting for service delivery and what it would be best for long-term maintenance and and you know management of their service delivery.

And so um that was what was reflected in the department asks, which are the those um left hand the left-hand column.

Uh we went through a process which was collaborative, um, probably maybe not every reduction in there uh was I I wouldn't say not every reduction in there was supported by the departments, but um uh there was a conversation, and uh when when they come to talk with you, I I think that will give a good contrast between kind of what they're seeing on the ground versus what we're trying to do to manage the to keep the costs down overall for the town.

And and that's really the contrast between those two numbers.

I think the overall asks um we're in the neighborhood of 29 million, and we got it down by uh close to three million uh in the proposed budget.

So that was all things that are probably, you know, somebody in town would like to see those things, but we tried to make a call to uh you know back them out, back some of those out of the budget uh now.

Um of course, as you mentioned, you guys may want to put some of them back in.

It just will mean that it it will be harder to afford that.

So just to clarify the the when you talked about the 4.4 percent increase in property taxes, that was based on the town manager budget.

Correct.

Okay, thank you.

So you're letting us see the sausage being made.

Yeah, well, I mean, we're trying to be totally transparent about what what we're doing and and you know what the need is versus what we're able to afford.

Great.

P?

Sure.

Um I was find it peculiar that during budget discussions um it always seems to ignite cut conversations, and it never seems to include growth conversations.

Um yeah, you know, I mean, I guess cuts will be a part of it, and I know that it was a big part of the last conversation because you know we're kind of backed into a corner there and um had a failed budget and had to uh kind of reinvent the wheel.

Um so here we are, and um I'm often baffled around the overtime when it comes to our first responders and those questions.

Um I'm not sure how to resolve that problem.

Um I'm sure Chief Simons will shed some light on that with the possibility of discussing Fourth Platoon.

Um the uh human services budget.

Um when I was an RTM member I advocated it, uh advocated for it going to two percent.

Um I am now advocating it to go to one percent.

Um I think no matter how you slice it, it's a burden on the taxpayer to pay it at one percent, at two percent, at three percent, at whatever percent, it becomes a burden.

So if um usually a cola is about three percent on average, and we're asking for two percent, um things just need to be reduced.

But again, I always I always find it funny that during these processes that we are always talking about where to cut and until something like human services is touched, and then that seems to be okay with everybody that that seems to be uh a bulletproof line item on our budget, and it's not.

I don't think you can talk about fiscal responsibility and still talk about that not coming into play.

Thank you, Peter.

Um I just want to say um not only that I appreciate this budget, but there's some really innovative things going on here that our town manager and staff have done to be fiscally responsible.

Um I think I think the town needs to hear more about the fourth platoon, for example, and and um other costs that are going up.

And also um, you know, I just really think it's important that that the people understand that for example the finance committee last year in their report talked about the extraordinarily generous program we have for human services, that it's the highest in the state of Vermont.

So um when the committee was here and David Minor was here, we talked about really bringing back, as David said, you know, a level of respect for the taxpayer, for the townspeople in this time of fiscal stress, and that um the nonprofits really need to um be mindful of what they're asking and who they're asking it from because there's a lot of people uh in this town who really need to keep our tax rate down, and and we on the select board have great respect for that.

Um I'm in favor of all that as well.

And I'm I'm just in favor of the process where we are going to be discussing all the elements of this budget, and we're gonna understand you know the service needs of the community.

And I think I think that we saw last spring really um everyone wants what they want, and it's a very difficult thing to not give people what they want.

So um we need to weigh these things carefully.

That's our job as select persons, and we all take it very seriously, and that's what we're going to be doing for the next several months until uh we can have a budget that we'll all vote on.

So again, I want to thank you, John.

Um what I would like to do is have a break for five minutes and then hear from the public, both online and in the public.

So ten after eight, please.

Let's hear from the public.

Let's start with uh online.

This must be David.

Mr.

Levenbach.

Mr.

Levenbuck.

You're there.

David, if you're there, I'm asking you to unmute.

Nope.

There we go.

There we go.

Sorry to keep you waiting.

Uh thank you.

David Lovok, District 9.

I appreciate and understand the reallocation of benefits from a large category to the individual departments.

Could we get information on the year-over-year change in benefits?

Either overall or by category.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Well, I'll have to get back to you on that, David.

Right.

Randy.

Hi, Randy Blodge of Brattleboro District 7.

Um John and your team, thanks for the much better, more professional, more up-to-date accounting.

It's very much easier to follow.

I I I get where David's coming from, and we can't do everything all at once, but I I like what you've gotten to.

Um I I'd also like to recommend or ask if the board could do everybody wants debate.

Everybody's talking about they want to wait for RTM or open meeting or one of these things.

At the end of this process, we're not having a listening session after we do go through all this.

Maybe we could have a informal moderator or host a meeting at the library or somewhere else, and let the community talk to one another after they've heard everything that goes on in this room the next two months.

So I I'd like if something like that could happen, that would be an awesome thing to end this with.

You guys could literally sit there and listen in that or chime in.

Up to you.

Um and I think that would be everybody could say everything, so they can't just say, oh, we're at RTM, we've got to wait till then.

That way we actually find out where everybody, you know what they want and where they're at.

So the other thing I want to caution is there's a lot of things on the horizon that we don't see in a memo, we don't see in the budget, we don't see everywhere because they're not all within the town.

We have the state isn't gonna be able to help school taxes this year.

Could be a six or six and a half percent increase because they don't have the money to knock it down like they've had in years past, according to what I'm reading.

Um we're starting out with a lot higher budget.

So like human services, even though it's one percent, the budget has gone up significantly.

So that amount's gonna go up.

Um and we need to really look at it as an amount to understand how much we're giving.

Um percentages are great, but you know, whether it's 468, whatever that number is, and the new budget's higher where it's at.

Um we're relying on EMS cash, you know, it's like a found thing now with this cash flow to low and from the high sevens down towards four.

And we're also relying on, you know, uh I'll call it a trash bag tax, but an increase in trash bags also is lowering that down.

So if we have a higher human services budget, if we don't get as much EMS because the overtime and other things and expenses are greater than we think they are, then it goes more towards eight percent.

And if not as many people buy trash bags because the price increased, it goes towards eight percent or higher.

Um so I would just caution it, and I don't want to get individual items, I think we save those for that night, but I caution the board to think about all those things because we're gonna be closer, in my opinion, to 10 percent when this is all said and done at the end of this budget.

Um when we go through the actual year and we look back than we are 44 4.4.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can I point of information?

Sure.

What uh what would be the nights on the calendar for human services?

I'm assuming trash would be public works night.

Yep.

And human services, where would we want that discussion to go?

That will be on um December 16th for all other.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Mr.

DeGray.

Uh thank you.

Like Randy, I'm not gonna get into the uh line items.

Uh John, how many new FTEs are actually in the budget?

And I do appreciate the fact that you have FTEs uh in each department.

And the uh I am really concerned uh when you talk about a supplemental presentation uh to the board, which would be adding more money, think things that you've cut.

And so now it's it's like a bait and switch.

Uh uh so I'm really concerned about that.

I think if it's uh you want it in the budget, you put it in the budget and let the let the the board decide whether they want to keep it or cut it.

Not not do this.

Uh I I truly call it a smoke and mirrors when you say we're gonna give you something else to see if these things we cut you wanna the taxpayers want to put them back in.

So I'm really concerned about that.

And then I guess I'll save the rest of my comments for when you start uh the departments.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, did you want to answer?

Oh, if you want me to.

Go ahead.

Let it.

All right.

I think the total new FTEs is around 6.7 is is what uh what we have in there.

So I wasn't totally clear on the other question, but we could get to it in the maybe in the budget sessions.

Heidi.

Heidi of Fisher District 7.

I too will keep my questions, the specific questions for those other meetings.

But just to clarify again, about the two different columns, the department column and the uh town manager column.

So really what we should be looking at as the proposed budget is the town manager column.

Okay.

That was one question.

And the other question I have that is just bugging me because I don't understand it is I noticed in every department there's longevity longevity pay or longevity bonus or something.

Can somebody explain what that is?

Yeah.

I can I can try.

So uh in the in the contracts in in the collective bargaining agreements, there are uh provisions that had been negotiated over the years for um paying staff who have been employed longer and additional long longevity payments.

That so that's one of the benefits that comes with uh being employed by the town for a longer period of time.

Is that a union thing?

Yeah, it's in the it was a negotiated benefit in the collective bargaining agreements.

It's a union thing.

And uh it uh it it's generally it's not exceedingly high, but it's sort of in recognition of the fact that a person who has been in our employment a longer period of time is is work that that skill and experience that's been developed, that knowledge of where all the water pipes are and everything else is valuable to the town.

If we were to lose that individual, it would cost the town more to have somebody come learn the learn everything.

So anyone else.

I'm just surprised.

I I have a question.

Go right ahead.

Um John, would you be able to give us a breakdown of where those 6.7 new FTEs are?

And I don't want to put you on the spot, so if it's easier to do it at the listening session or another time, that's also fine.

Yeah, and it it is in those areas that I talked about earlier.

Um the specifics are uh probably best explained when we talk each department by department for like what those what each position is and how or how many hours it is.

Okay, thank you.

So yep.

Anyone else?

Madam Chair, I'm wondering if because we all were able to comment at the very beginning, if we all could do a brief comment at the end.

As you wish.

Is that okay?

Yes?

Okay.

So no more comments?

That's what I'm seeing.

Great.

I just want to thank the the public for um keeping it brief at this time because I think it is appropriate at this stage in the game to do exactly that.

Um I led with a very light um intro, but I will say that you have um you can put your trust in all of us to go through this budget with a fine-tooth comb.

And we appreciate the correspondence about areas to target from the public.

Um here we go.

Let's make it a positive one.

I'll speak to see.

I guess the only thing to add is just to encourage anyone who is interested to please I mean reach out to any of us, but also including me, if you'd like, feel free to take advantage of my time.

I'm happy to get together and talk and answer questions.

So uh please I look forward to it.

That leaves you, Pete.

Oh man, I'm just so happy right now.

I got nothing left to say.

That's my line.

Okay.

All right, great.

Uh then we'll move on to the next item, which is the uh financial report, September 2025 for three months ending.

And we have Bonnie and Sally.

Um, introduce yourself again because I think you you've only been here what once or twice?

Once?

Once?

Yep.

Uh Bonnie Bachelor on a contract uh finance CFO position in the town.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

So welcome and good to see everybody.

This report is for the quarter, the first quarter of the FY26 budget for the three months ended September of 25.

The materials break down the three primary funds, which are the general fund, the utility fund and the parking fund.

So at the end of September, we're approximately or we are through 25% of our fiscal year and fiscal year budget.

Within the general fund, we have actually recorded 84% of our revenue due to the property taxes, but we've annualized that so that we spread it evenly or prorated throughout the year.

So approximately we're at about 25.5% of our revenue.

Our expenses annualized are approximately at 23%.

Our cash balance currently at the end of September is 15.2 million.

Included in the revenue, and this has been a question that I know has come up in the past is 13.8 million, almost 9 million of receivables.

This month or this quarter, I've included a chart that makes up those receivables, and you can see that the two highest figures are the EMS receivable, which I'll touch on in a little bit, and the property tax receivables.

And the remainder are just miscellaneous town receivables that are immaterial in comparison to the 13.9 million of receivables.

Areas worth noting for the first quarter, EMS revenue of 337,000 represents 100% of the FY26 revenue.

We've annualized this based on the first quarter, and we expect to see 1,349,000 of revenue, which would exceed our budget for FY26 by 467,000.

We calculate our receivables based on the model that was created when the EMS was put in place at 38% to give you a benchmark on that 38%.

And September 38.

This gives us an average collection of approximately 46%.

So you can see that the 38% that we're using is conservative based on actual figures for the first quarter.

Certain benefits like opt-out HSA are not paid equally throughout the year, creating a heavier burden at twice during the year in July and December.

December, okay.

Part of the reason that we are looking at exceeding budget is because of the overtime and annualizing the overtime in departments throughout the rest of the year.

Within the risk management section, I think this is a question that may have come up in the past.

The workers' comp, the general liability, and other miscellaneous liability items are paid quarterly and were paid earlier within the quarter, and I in August made it look like we were going to exceed budget, but based on the first quarter where we should be.

That increases benefits for payroll taxes, retirement.

You will notice that we are beginning to show particular items such as incentives in their own line item, which we haven't in the past.

So there has not been budget line items for those.

We're trying to ensure that each department shows all of proper costs for benefits, incentives, payroll, so forth and so on.

Within the utility fund, we have raised approximately 25.75% of the annual budget.

And what we are doing to equalize the revenue is in the past, revenue has just been recorded when the actual quarterly billings were completed.

So we've taken an estimate of the quarterly billings and we're accruing it on a monthly basis and then grossing it up at the end of the quarter to give a more reasonable impact of the revenue as compared to expenses.

So you'll see that.

Expenditures represent 13.2% of the annual budget.

So we are significantly below the 25% that's budgeted.

Total revenues at 1.8 million, expenses at 958,000, currently a surplus of 866,000.

Again, HRA and HSA payments are paid twice a year, with the first payments have been made, decreasing the projected budget below the 75% remaining to be spent.

Within the parking fund, the revenues are 24% of the budget, expenditures are 18.2 percent of the budget.

We prorate the expenditures throughout the throughout the year, but even within the parking, we remain at the 18.2 percent.

Total revenues are 252,000, expenses are 186,000, and we currently have a surplus of 65,000.

I will note that I believe there was a question on why there's no depreciation within utility and parking, and until we close FY25 for the audit, we don't start booking the depreciation and finalize those schedules.

So once that is is done, then you'll begin to see the depreciation.

And it will be done cumulatively through the period that we record it.

And that's about it.

Thank you very much, Bonnie.

You're welcome.

Other select board members have questions for Bonnie or Sally.

Go ahead.

Yeah, thank you so much for this breakdown.

It's great to have you here at the meeting.

Um where are we with finding an auditor?

We are in our second round of sending out RFPs.

We sent out a round earlier and had no response, unfortunately.

Um so we put a few tweaks into the RFP and sent out a second round, and those are due at the end of November, and hopefully uh we'll get a response.

We're glad to have you in this role, but miss you as our auditor.

Thank you.

Let me ask a question about that.

Isaac put it up.

Um does the state get involved?

Like, does the state have a list of licensed auditors?

Or do you have to go beyond that to go to like New England's list of licensed auditors?

Well, every state has a society of CPAs, and you can reach out to those institutions and get lists.

And municipal accounting is also a niche.

And so not only do you and on top of that, single audit, because you have uh federal funds that require a single audit.

So those three items in combination are really um diminishing the pool that we can pull from.

I have offered to um draft the statements and have those ready for the auditors, um, which is a burden to auditors.

It's a it's a very grueling process.

So hopefully that will pique some interest for auditors.

That sounds great.

Thank you for that.

We'll see.

Oscar.

Uh I just have a question about that, probably for John.

What are our requirements and responsibilities here?

Do we have to have an audit by December 31st?

Is there what is the situation there?

Well, um, we yeah, we uh we always have done an audit um in time for the um uh the budget book basically because we want to include that on the past year's uh budget, but I'm not sure of our legal obligations.

I think that it would be um concerning if we didn't get an audit done.

But we we but it might be that we have to do it later, I'm not sure.

So it depends on our availability.

Yeah, I mean because you have federal funds and are required to have a uniform guidance audit.

Um we really want to do our best to have that submitted within nine months of the end of the fiscal year.

Um otherwise the town becomes it becomes what's called a high risk versus a low risk for the uniform guidance, and that doesn't sound it's not as scary as it sounds.

It just means that it's expanded testing, which is more costly, of course, um and based on the number of grants that the town has, you know, we're we would just like to minimize that, obviously.

And I'm sure with Sally's help you can you're casting a wide net.

We are great.

Thank you.

Um Isaac, that was the extent of your questions?

For the moment, thanks.

Uh Peter, you have any?

Um no, thank you for the report.

It's something I can easily understand.

Appreciate that.

Great.

Amanda?

I have a question.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Um so a software license for aggressively spent do uh what what does that mean?

Well, I I know I was reading that too.

Kind of chuckled at my wording.

Um it just we pay for the largest piece of software that we have, which is open gov and it's all paid for in July versus prorated over the year on a monthly or quarterly basis.

So 100% is paid.

Right.

Um and then the workers' comp um line.

Could you elaborate on that a little bit more?

Like, did our rates change because of claims, or did our is this typical or uh that might be more of a settling question.

But um the rates did change, um and we're trying to do a really thorough job with every expense and making sure that we allocate them correctly to the various funds and departments, um, being the general fund utility and parking.

True.

Yeah, that's been useful for sure.

Learning that process.

Um there was an increase with the workers' comp, I believe, this year, due our yeah, due to our scoring.

Um, but we're working on that.

We have the safety committee we meet and we have VLCT when we're going through that.

I'm actually meeting with them for our last quarter on our reporting for that too.

So is that do we anticipate that rate staying for the entire rest of the year?

When or can it be adjusted down during the calendar year?

Yeah.

So our rates are what the rates are, but at the end of the fiscal year, we do a survey and we provide the actual payroll and workers' comp is then basically audited based on our actual payroll.

So if our estimated payroll is lower than when our actual comes in, then we have additional premiums and and the vice versa is true as well.

Yeah.

We will you say that one more time?

Meaning, so if the payroll is lower than the anticipated than the submitted the rate changes into a favor in a favorable way for the town.

The rate doesn't change, but the rate it our premium is calculated based on the rate times a payroll dollar value.

If our payroll is higher, the premium is higher.

If our payroll is lower, the premium is lower.

Yeah, great.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Every position has a code that they work off of.

Yeah, thank you.

Just a couple comments and questions.

Um I really think this was a great report.

I really appreciate how you've tolerated and incorporated our feedback and requests.

Um prorating out the property taxes was really helpful for me.

The table of receivables was great.

The expanded areas uh worth notation, I think is perfect.

It's really helpful.

I love the approach of trying to you know sort of see things that might trigger people's interests and explain them ahead of time.

I think that's really awesome.

Um I have a couple so I know you talked about software licenses being paid often at the beginning of the year.

They also do seem to be over by a bunch in most of the departments, so I was wondering if there was a just a cost change there or something like that.

And for some there were, yes, that may not have been appropriately budgeted prior to and and we changed the allocation too to be based on what it actually should be.

Okay.

So I think when the budget was put together, that information was not available, but it is now.

Okay.

And then this is just a note of mine, unless I've done my math wrong, but for the three for police fire and dispatch, they're all over on overtime, but by the a lot of that overtime comes from the fact certainly in fire that we haven't been able to fully hire yet, and by my math, we are under by more on salaries in all three departments than we're over on overtime.

So that's still something we want to fix, but as it stands, it's not a budget killer, which is great.

Um then my last question, and I apologize, but I'm still slightly confused about so EMS receivables.

If we if I was to describe an EMS the receivables, that would be the outstanding claims multiplied by the percentage.

Correct.

The receivables are the stuff that's still outstanding.

Correct.

Okay.

And it says EMS receivables 339K.

And then in the report, the EMS revenue line item is basically the same, 337K.

But my question is, wouldn't we expect that to be receivables plus the cash that's already come in?

Like, wouldn't we expect a higher number there?

Or am I missing this again?

No, because you need to take the net change from the year end, June 30th, to now, and that's about a $60,000 difference.

So if you want to look at cash coming in, you could look at cash coming in at about 400,000 and receivables have gone down about 60, which brings us down to the 337 of just FY26 revenue.

So in other words, we've received about $60,000 of the 630 receivables.

I mean if you want to look at it in simplistic Okay, so just to make sure I understand this.

I feel like I understand it.

I'm not sure.

I don't.

I so okay.

So the number in the report is that in the in the table, is that based on is that just receivables, whether or not they've been collected, or is that cash?

No, I'm still confused.

I'm sorry.

It's just receivables.

Okay.

So I receive a report at September 30th, August 31st, whatever month that we're we're closing.

And the receivables, and I'm just going from memory at the end of September approximately 892,000.

So I take 38% of that based on the model that was built for EMS.

And that's all a book for revenue.

Okay, so whether or not it's been collected.

Correct.

You look at the whole number collected or uncollected, apply the percentage, and use that.

I look at the outstanding uncollected and apply the percentage.

We we've we've already collected several dollars.

And are those dollars of dollars in here?

Yes, the 337 is the FY26 collection revenue.

I will continue to think about that.

Okay.

I just think it um it maybe Google the difference between cash and accrual because where you're coming from is cash, where I'm coming from is accrual to record the revenue in the proper period.

Okay.

Okay.

I'll do that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thanks again, Bonnie, for coming and for this nice report.

And I want to highlight again the parking fund.

Uh last time we talked about the parking fund.

You weren't here.

But I'm so pleased that the town has pulled together to um have a surplus in the parking fund after many months, probably years, of not having a surplus and you know, from borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

And now here we have a surplus.

And uh I think it's wonderful, and I think that there's a a lot of areas of town staff that are responsible for this that I want to thank them and highlight their hard work.

And I wondered if you'd care to comment about it.

Uh I don't really have anything to say other than it's great to see a surplus.

Um, and the you know the fund is being managed well, and I think the changes that were made late in 24 help significantly.

Great.

Thank you.

John, is there anything you want to say about how that surplus came about and who we all owe our gratitude to?

Oh, yeah, I mean, I think um Darren Pachico and uh Jeremy Evans have been working with a team to really bring our uh parking um around, and I mean I think you've seen that at a couple of meetings here.

Um, just very happy with the work that they've done to not only make it simpler to understand and to use the parking system, but also just all of the innovations to get us to where we are where it's now um supporting itself, and it's not uh at a threat of costing the general fund or the taxpayer or anything.

So and it will be leased soon portions of it?

Um portions have already been of the properties have been leased, and uh we have additional ones on the line, and I think uh we'll have those uh um signed up soon.

So great.

Thank you very much.

And thank you for this nice report.

I have one question.

That's okay.

This is circling back to workers' conference.

I'm gonna attract it to Sally.

So, like the experience pod, like how does that affect what we're looking at here with the areas worth notation?

Yeah, that'll be depending on how many claims we have and how long they're lasting and that cost.

So we do know it it was going up.

We had some high claims last last year.

So I'm law is affected in the calendar year is by calendar year.

And then it's compared to like the industry.

Yeah.

And then that gets reviewed in what month, usually.

Uh well, as what I'm having my meeting with them coming up soon.

We do a quarterly reviews uh with VLCT, who is our workers' comp insurer.

So I meet with them, and then we have safety meetings monthly, and um the rep from VLCT joins us at those meetings, and we talk about how we can make some improvements on on all of that.

So during our budget process now for FY27, would that be an ongoing conversation or adjustment in our future budget?

It it maybe it's just gonna be the pandemic.

Yeah, hopefully.

Something to look out for.

Yeah, we're gonna stay safer.

So yes, well, you're doing a great job with all the programming you do for employees.

So thank you for that.

Yeah, thank you.

All right.

Oscar has a question, and then we'll go to the public.

I just forgot to say and want to say I'm really glad that we have you doing this.

I it just makes me feel so much more confident in what we're doing here, and it's really appreciated.

So thank you, Bonnie.

Welcome.

On that note, members of the public, Randy, did I see your hand up?

Yeah, it's it it goes back to what Oscar was asking about accrual and cash, and and I know and and part of what I'm gonna just ask, because I think her expertise is what's needed, and it refers back to what Oscar asked with the 337,000 versus the 339,000, because we're gonna hear a presentation in a little while from the fire department that essentially is numbers, which refers back to what Bonnie's talking about that come from, I believe, you know, what she did.

And I and I'm assuming on those two pages that are on there, if you look in your book, like instead of 4-1, it should be 10-1 for the date.

Um it's saying about total payments received, and then it's also referring back to Foscar looked.

I think this explains what Bonnie was talking about.

It it talks about 881,241 dollars is the budgeted reimbursement, the quarterly targets 293 and change, the total receives 156, and then there's a difference, which is that number that's in the budget for 137 because it's all accrual.

So you have to look at it as it's not don't worry about what we got because she tells you that in a different part.

But what might be helpful just based on how everybody else looks at it is more footnotes.

If we could have that put into the fire department, you know, that hey, how do we how do we put these numbers out there to be more understandable?

Um because some people might look at the quarterly and say, well, if you divide it, it's 220,310 versus the number that's there is you know way higher.

So I I think it's just we're doing great.

We made a lot of improvements, it's explained a lot better, but I think just a couple finishing touches and and it it makes it understandable and reasonable, and we know where we're at.

That's all I wanted to bring up.

Thank you, Randy.

Hi, Dick.

Thank you.

More tired I get the more chance I'll fall over.

Um missed something somewhere.

Heidi Fisher District 7.

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I look at this, and maybe what you were saying, Oscar, you could repeat about this overtime stuff, because I look at this and say, oh my God, it is 25% of the year and overtime for fire is more than they've spent more than 100% of their full year budget.

And police has spent 63% of their overtime budget in the first 25% of the year.

So what are we doing about that?

And why why aren't people as up in arms about this as I'm feeling internally?

First, let's ask Bonnie if the that's an accurate statement based on your report.

If you are isolating over time only, it is an accurate statement.

But what Oscar was saying was that they the salary line is lower than what is budgeted.

And the two offset each other because there are vacant positions.

That's basically what I'm saying.

And it's entirely possible I did the math wrong, but I think So for fire, we are on pace to go.

I'm sorry, I can't do this in my head right now, but maybe we can talk after.

I think that the costs offset in the good direction if you look at salaries and overtime on all three of those.

But I'm happy to have someone maybe you want to look at that with me and we can check it.

Okay.

And I can weigh in too.

And it will be helpful when we have the department heads, but my my understanding in terms of the way policing works is that it's not like you have a shift change at a hospital, right?

Like if you have an officer working on a case and it shifts into beyond their their allotted time, they will continue through the process of until it's done.

I don't know about um fire as much, but that's my understanding of police work.

It still doesn't answer the budget question.

Well, if there's open positions that are not being paid in salary, that's what Oscar and you, I believe, were talking about.

Yeah, that was for fire.

Yeah.

Uh Randy, did you have a follow-up?

Just based on that, I I think the bigger concern, I mean, yes, 2.2 or whatever over time is is obviously a concern.

The total budget number, I I think Oscar's right when I looked at it, but the concern is we brought up about workplace safety.

We brought up about work-life balance, and if we have eight less firefighters EMTs right now, um, and it was a lesser amount if you looked at the monthlies from HR and in the agenda packet.

Um on a trend line, and and maybe Bonnie can answer is maybe she can't, that that's going to go where Oscar's theory and my theory is that it works out financially.

Does that disappear?

And what does it do to firemen wanting to stay working in Brattleboro is a bigger concern.

And I think that that's what we'll be discussing in the weeks, well, in a few minutes, and in the weeks and months to come.

And I think that that floor fourth platoon is a big part of that discussion.

And so we'll have that discussion.

But I think Sally, you'd be in a good position to tell us before Jay comes and tells us again.

Um I'm sure you're actively trying to recruit fire personnel.

Yes, we are.

It's still an active position.

Um so uh we do screenings when they apply.

Um, and then from there we determine who would move on again to the oral board process and then go through the whole um pre screen um prerequisites before they have a tentative start date.

So yes, we are.

Great.

Thank you.

Uh Kate.

Hello, everybody, Kate O'Connor Brattleborough, and I want to follow up on this EMS question.

And I'm going to ask it now because if I wait and ask it when the fire department gets here, they might say you should have asked it when the finance report was.

Um been struggling with over the last two years is figuring out when a bill goes out, how to track when it gets paid.

So there's this little nugget in this memo that talks about um the receivables, and it says during July we collected 43.8 percent of our monthly charges.

During August, we collected 56.7 percent of our monthly charges, and in September we collected 38 percent of our monthly charges.

My question is does this mean that the July number that 43.8 percent is of all the invoices that went out in July, we collected 43 percent of them.

And does that mean of all the invoices we did in August, we collected 38 percent?

You know what I mean?

Like I'm seeing Billy Fritz nodding in the back.

Yeah.

I just try to figure out like are have we cracked.

I'm just trying to figure out like have we cracked it that we can actually track an invoice that this invoice out went out in July and it was paid.

So we're you know that's my question.

The question is should Bonnie answer that question or should Billy answer the question.

And Billy's pointing to Bonnie.

So you know what I mean.

I'm just trying to figure out like have we cracked it.

And when you say it's been uh we've collected it, is that actual real life money and not a receivable?

So I have two questions.

It is actual real life money that we have collected.

And so just invoice cleaner.

Right.

So when it says during July we collected, etc.

Is that of claims made in July?

Correct.

Okay.

Great.

There you go.

Asked and answered.

Any more questions from the public?

Dick.

So staying on the EMS theme for one second.

What when we were here in August, we still had receivables coming in.

Where did those get placed?

Anything that came in after June 30th looks like they got applied to 2025, and I was under the assumption that there was a cutoff date that said if revenues come after X, whatever that date is, those revenues get applied to this current year.

So I was surprised when you said the 337 or the 339 was all revenues from uh July, August, and September.

So can you answer that part of it for me?

I can try.

Um I I know what I want to say, but it's kind of teaching accounting.

So at 630 25, um I accrued the receivables and book the revenue that was appropriate at 6.30.25.

Every month I adjust that receivable, which only records the revenue for FY26.

So that you have to always take the net change between what we had at 630-25 and whatever period we're booking.

So the only revenue that is showing in that 337 figure is FY26 revenue, because we booked the receivable at 6.30.

Okay.

I I have somewhat of a disagreement.

I mean, I understand with the fire having staff money left in our budget because they're understaffed.

But when you're paying time and a half to straight time, uh at some point the balance is going to tip and you're going to fill some some of those positions.

And I'm estimating that the overtime line item is going to be somewhere around 500K.

I'm concerned with the police department overtime because they don't have any vacancies.

And they're working on uh an average of $13,000 a month OT.

That concerns me.

The last thing I want to ask you, not to embarrass anybody, but used to are the people that are.

I asked a question about salaries that ended in uh June 30th.

How come so many people got overpaid?

And I don't know how that happened, and I don't expect those people to know how it happened, but you've been doing our finances for several months.

Uh and so maybe I can give you examples, but they're right here in the 2025 budget to actuals.

So if you could answer that for me, I'd be really happy.

All right.

So it's more than a question that Dick has asked, it's an accusation.

And I think that um here in this in this uh in your memo about incentives it's laid out, and perhaps uh Bonnie or Sally would like to address it.

I well, first of all, uh before anybody in this room could answer that question, we done need to understand the basis in which you calculated that.

Um I disagree.

I think Sally would disagree that anybody was overpaid, but there the way that the um salary was tracked in prior years, 25, uh even in 26 there were more than just salary items that were tracked in that staff salary line.

So we would need to pull those out, and then we would need to understand how you calculated your figures, and then we could show you how everything was accurate.

This document says here budgeted, and then actually that's what I'm going by.

I didn't pick these figures on my I'm going to go.

All right.

How did they have to let's get control of this discussion?

I think that you have asked for certain things, Dick.

And that and that we will respond to them, and that the these were serious.

And we will answer you because I think that is an outrageous uh accusation that you've made on the town and its employees.

It's not already.

And it will be answered, and and that will be that.

Are there any more questions from the public?

All right.

Then I will thank the two of you very much for coming and answering our questions so patiently and appropriately.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, what's next?

Let's see.

And coming to the table is Chief Simons, assistant chief here.

Um Billy, I've forgotten your title.

EMS superintendent.

EMS superintendent, thank you.

Please begin.

Well, hello.

Hello.

The moment we've all been waiting for the fire quarterly.

All right.

So uh once again, because our quarterly report is about 11 pages long.

I kind of paraphrase it down into a shorter document.

The heat uh hit some of the high points.

Um to open the Brownborough Fire Department remains committed to continuous improvement.

We also take pride in the many accomplishments and community impacts made possible through the dedication of our personnel.

We've never claimed perfection and we'll always strive to improve as an organization that cares for our community and helps our neighboring communities when the need arises.

If we only focus on the faults or the in people or the organization, we'll miss the opportunities for growth and success.

So emergency response to call volume.

We responded to 1,152 fire and EMS calls, an average of 13 per day.

The top calls we responded to are sick person 173, falls 98, uh fire alarms 92, overdoses 70, breathing problems 70.

Uh community engagement, we participate in 15 over 15 outreach events, including fire drills, safety presentations, gallery walk, 4th of July, and many school visits.

Some staffing updates, some of these you were already aware of from uh last quarter.

Uh Captain Emery retired, uh Firefighter Mancini and Paramedic Garland both resigned.

Uh they actually those resignations took place in the current quarter we're in, but I just I put them in there as some staffing changes.

Uh we have two new hires, firefighter EMT Luke Beulah and Firefighter EMT Edward Hagerman have both joined.

Uh firefighter Beulah is cleared to operate, and firefighter Hegerman is very close to being cleared.

Uh current staffing vacancies, we have one lieutenant vacancy, three firefighters, one fire alarm superintendent, and one single roll paramedic.

Overtime.

So for the first quarter, we spent 157,586 dollars in overtime.

This was largely due to eight vacancies, which was 53.6% of the overtime for a grand total of 84,498.

Those eight vacancies are two firefighters that were out on temporary leave, both have returned.

Three actual vacancies and three that were in the clearing process that did not count towards our our normal staffing.

In our salary line, we had $704,032 allocated to the first quarter.

We spent $531,634.

That left a remainder of one $172,398 to cover overtime cost.

So between the allocated overtime budget and the staffing uh money left in that staffing line, we are covered uh for this quarter.

So between the allocated overtime budget and the staffing uh money left in that staffing line we are covered uh for this quarter uh you know the I I know this has come up a lot about the the difficulties in filling these vacancies we live in a very competitive market uh when we're looking for firefighter positions we are competing with surrounding agencies and you know the the four platoon system is has come up in discussion that is a 42 hour work week versus a 56 hour work week so when somebody applies for a fire department job they could either make the same money at 56 hours a week or they can make the some same money at 42 hours a week so that's certainly something they they determine population density also plays a large role in that we are not a hugely popular populated community we're not a big metropolitan city so we just don't have the number of people to pull from to fill these vacancies I just interviewed we just interviewed uh someone from Colorado we interviewed somebody from uh down south like we're we're broad and far um trying to trying to find those those people to fill those vacancies uh the other further breakdown of the overtime uh for vacation sick fill was 17.3 percent that came in at 27,262 dollars and then for training 11.3 percent 17,823 dollars uh I have a a document that I keep everybody that does overtime is put into this document as to why they're doing overtime so I keep very factual track of of how that money is being spent our intent is to lower that overtime budget the plan you know you approved the plan last year we have been unable to fulfill that plan just due to not being able to fill those vacancies EMS operations so we've billed for 579 trips gross charges were 840482 uh dollars uh so you know body just spoke about the the receivables so 337 thousand two hundred and seventy five dollars uh was was the receivables the payment that you saw the receivables you saw in our quarterly report which was 156015 dollars uh the date correction on that that was as of 10125 that number is the number the amount of cash received for bills generated during that quarter so we generated x amount of bills we received 156 of that money so the rest excuse me the rest of that money some of that is has just not been paid yet some of it's you know turned into a payment plan so that money will continue to come in and build on that but that's that's where that that number comes from going forward we're just going to use the number that that Bonnie uses as is a receivable so we're all speaking the same language just to bring clarity to that to that line because I know it's caused a lot of confusion so our payer mix Medicare was 40% Medicaid was 34% private insurance was 23%.

Grants and funding we had an opioid settlement grant of 32157 dollars awarded for community training which is an ARCAN CPR and first aid we installed our first outdoor AED at living memorial park that's tied into the dispatch system so if somebody opens that door for that AED it automatically sends a signal to dispatch center and gets our resources started just a little bit faster.

It's the first one like it in our community and we're hoping to continue to build that program and get more out there.

Grant applications we submitted for firehouse subs unfortunately we did receive new the news that we did not get that grant we also entered the ZOL AED contest which we have not heard how we've how we came out on that one some training highlights uh the medical director Dr.

Storm has been in to teach a few different classes one of those was a heat emergency management with cooling kit simulations this is a kind of a new thing we brought to BFD just in time for winter so when somebody has a heat emergency we submerse them in an ice bath but we'll be all prepared for next summer when the heat rolls around we also have have done a lot of mechanical CPR device evolutions as we decide what sort of mechanical CPR devices we plan to purchase with the the gift that was given to us upcoming updates based on new HA guidelines and then several other classes internal to the fire department I meant to stick training hours in there and I forgot to add that I'll add that for next next quarter fire prevention and housing inspections so the for fire prevention week the focus was on lithium ion battery safety that's really important so it's caused a lot of fires and a lot of these fires stem from not using UL tested devices so for example you know Apple cords with Apple phones people go aftermarket gas stations and buy non UL UL approved chargers and that tends to be what starts these fires.

So the for fire prevention week the focus was on lithium ion battery safety.

Uh that's really important, so it's caused a lot of fires, and a lot of these fires stem from not using UL tested devices.

So for example, you know, Apple cords with Apple phones, people go aftermarket gas stations and buy non-UL approved chargers, and that tends to be what starts these fires.

So it's important to make sure you're you're using the appropriate plugs when you're charging things.

Uh zone one rental housing inspections are underway, the streets are named in the the quarterly report for where who will be seeing those.

And then promotion of community connect platform for household emergency info.

Uh the more info we have when we're responding to your homes, the better suited we are to help you out in your emergency.

Some big uh department milestones.

So we promoted Lieutenant Hubbard to captain, and we promoted uh acting Lieutenant Kennedy and acting Lieutenant Ivy to full lieutenant uh last quarter.

And then EMS Superintendent Fritz was invited to contribute to uh producing a new fifth edition uh pediatric emergency pediatric emergency preparedness book, something like that.

But he's a writer, and they value his writing.

Uh that is all I have for the the highlight notes on the quarterly report.

I welcome any questions.

Thank you, cheap.

You're welcome.

Um let me just say that an AED is an automated external defibrillator.

Yes.

Let's try and keep the acronyms too.

I will try.

Um let's let me ask my colleagues if they'd like to begin with any questions or comments.

I mean, sure, why not?

I um was just the side that are we allowed to talk about UMS data yet?

Or can or do you want me to stay fire?

No, you can talk about UMS data.

I I want to talk about because I think this looks a great thing to celebrate the um uh time on the scene.

Oh, shortening the time on the scene from it looked like it was seven minutes and twenty-nine seconds to five minutes and fifty.

So that happened within this quarter, so the fast response time.

I think that's super exciting.

Um I don't know if you want to talk about that.

Oh, what we need to do in that.

You know, it's just that continue as I spoke of when I first opened up, just continuing to hone those skills and better the system.

So we're we're constantly seeking to improve the system.

Yeah, great.

Um one other question.

Um, and this is related to overtime.

Can you explain why banner community detailed training um and I'm not sure what single roll overtime means?

Um so can we hear why banner community detail and training go into overtime budget and then what the definition of single roll OT is.

Okay.

Sure.

Uh so let me get my numbers in front of me here.

Okay.

So uh banner overtime is specifically for hanging the banner.

So every Sunday, anybody that purchases a banner for Main Street, we send two individuals out on overtime to hang that banner banner.

So that's what the banner overtime is.

Uh community details are uh the community connect night, we put on additional staffing, uh the No Kings marches, we put on additional staffing, football games we put on additional staffing to stand by.

Um there are all those all those public events that need a dedicated resource.

So that's that's that defining line.

If it doesn't have to be a dedicated resource, if if they can be there but then leave if there's an emergency, then we don't cover it with overtime.

If that unit is in that personnel dedicated to that event, then it's it's overtime.

It's additional staffing.

Uh the single roll overtime.

So FSLA, you know, our single roll paramedics fall under FSLA, so they can only work 40 hours a week, be compensated at straight time for 40 hours a week.

Their schedule uh makes them work 48 hours a week.

So every pay period they get 16 hours of overtime.

Okay.

And then the training the reason that the training goes under overtime as well?

So any time the the staff goes outside of the firehouse to do training, so if they go to the fire academy, they go to another department that's hosting training, they're compensated for that time they spend in the training.

At overtime.

At overtime.

The straight rate.

Correct, yes.

Because that's time above and beyond their normal scheduled shift.

Got it.

Okay.

If they're if they're like if they're on shift, then they don't get additional pay.

That makes sense.

So if they're if they're working in training, they don't get additional pay.

But if they're training outside the fire office and not on their normal shift, then they get overtime.

And are all of the trainings required trainings?

They're required for promotion, they're required for experience growth.

We don't script there's you know, if you want to become a lieutenant, there's specific trainings that you have to complete in order to do that.

Um most of the trainings that our folks go to are just expanding their knowledge to make them better firefighters, make them better EMTs, just more skilled, more trained.

And when you talked about the competitive market for hiring firefighters and the MS personnel, is this kind of like a perk that you are able to do training as over at overtime pay?

Is that seen as an advantage?

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

So the department I come from uh did not pay uh overtime in this in the same way.

If you know the fire chief made you go to the course, then sure, but if you sign up for courses on your own, you weren't compensated with overtime.

So it is a perk.

Absolutely.

Yep.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

Oscar, do you have questions?

I do have a question, but I'm actually slightly too confused about it to ask it.

So I will think about it more and save it.

Um but I just wanted to thank you guys for this report, and I hope that uh Billy can continue to sit in that seat so I can watch his face facial reactions throughout the meeting.

So gives you all the information you need to know.

Yeah.

Gentleman to my left, please.

Um as a as a man who has commissioned a few banners over our main street.

I uh I do know that that comes with a fee uh which covers the overtime fee, I'm assuming.

Close.

So it you're you're paying two firefighters for two hours a piece to hang that banner.

So what we're looking at for 27 is increasing that rate to help that better cover that overtime cost.

Right.

Well, but what I'm kind of driving at is that's that's a reimbursed overtime cost yes, yes.

Yep.

That's all I had.

Isaac?

Thank you.

Okay.

So um again, thank you for coming.

What I wanted to discuss is just the relationship of the call volume to the overtime.

Because you know, we get emails saying that um in the past 24 hours you guys handled whatever number of incidents.

And I I think you should just talk about that because I think that the volume of calls has increased considerably.

And we're not talking about that as a factor in the overtime, and I think we should be.

Would you like to comment on that?

Sure.

Uh so there's been uh a few periods of time or or 24 hour periods where we've handled upwards of 21 to 26 calls.

And when those those days occur, you know, we do what's called a callback.

And you know, as soon as we have more than four people dedicated to uh an emergency scene, we do it, we initiate a call back to ensure that there's resources available for the next call and the next call and the next call.

Uh so those those generate an automatic typically it's for two.

Uh we'll do a call back for two.

If two firefighters come into the station, that's four hours of overtime, two per firefighter uh by their contract that they get.

So on those on those heavy days, uh we're doing a lot of callbacks, that does drive up that overtime cost.

So it's not just the firefighters on staff doing the calls, creating overtime, but it's the call back to backfill that creates additional overtime.

Yep, to backfill that to make sure we have resources available.

Right.

And I think the public understanding of that is because the call volume is greater than it has been.

Yes, it is.

And I, you know, we have that same issue with the police, but the fire has significant volume of calls, both fire and EMS.

Yes.

Um I also wondered um, you know, there's this relationship between the um the unfilled positions and the overtime.

Are what are we doing to alleviate that that situation?

Not just you know trying to hire people, but other management elements to reduce the overtime.

Is there something you can say about that?

So uh one of the things that you know to technically every shift there's ten positions.

One of the things we do to curtail some of that overtime is we don't fill all those 10 positions, and we could.

So there's you know, every day we have 10 full-time positions.

We only fill eight of those positions uh as a minimum staffing.

So, you know, our our optimum number is is that 10 firefighters, but we reduce that staffing number down to eight to save on that on that overtime line.

Um further, we you know, the the floor does a really good job.

I say the floor, the the firefighters and the captains on the floor do a really good job of managing that schedule.

So there's conversations between each shift where they look at the schedule and like hey, I'd really like to take next week off.

Well, what does that look like?

You know, how many people are off?

And I only see those requests are if you know the captains say, Yep, yep, we got it covered, or it's an emergency request, you know, like you know, big family event, really need the time off, those kinds of requests.

Um if there is if it is a critical vacancy, like you know, we've already got two people off, and and it's gonna cost overtime, I'll have a conversation with that, the person requesting that uh time off to find out what the need is.

Is it I'm just trying to burn off time and I can move that to another time when we have more staffing, or is that a critical need, like something came up, family emergency, family event, I really need this time off.

So that's a conversation I'll have with the firefighter.

Thank you.

And then is there um you know you you're casting a wide net for additional firefighters, and some are already in in training positions?

Yes.

Yep.

So you are active trying to accomplish our goal.

I am we are, yes, we are.

Great.

I'd love to type on an extra question just to follow up with that.

How do the wellness days go into the conversation regarding like surprise time off and and how that's managed in the house?

And maybe that's too making the sausage if you don't want to talk about it.

Uh it's pretty simple.

Uh the captains manage the wellness days.

So each shift looks so there's never two wellness days at the same time.

And again, the the wellness days are used, they're put in typically 30 to 60 days in advance.

Um and they'll they'll spread out their wellness days there's only ever one person off per shift.

And if there's uh we are already below minimum staffing, they won't use a wellness day then they'll shift it to another time.

Okay.

So it's a it's a real schedule scramble.

I mean, it is.

It sounds complicated.

It is it is a living document every day.

It's a living document.

Yeah.

And then with more staffing, would that theoretically be helpful to how complicated it is to work the puzzle?

So what the you know, when we when we rolled out the more staffing for this fiscal year, uh that gave us more flexibility for people to use their time without dropping below that minimum staffing and then creating that overtime.

So that's how that was to curtail the overtime.

The issue is we've never gotten to full staffing.

So if we could ever get to full staffing, you'd see those overtime numbers greatly reduce.

Okay.

Oscar, did you have a question?

Yeah, I was just wondering if you could tell us a little more.

We have six vacancies.

For it sounds like for some of those, some people are some way along the process for those not counting the two new hires, right?

Those are not counted among the vacancies.

So there's uh in the in the the vacancies or actual vacancies.

Okay.

So those ones there's there's nobody in those positions.

Okay.

Uh there's one currently uh in the clearing process, so be cleared soon.

Okay.

And then the rest haven't been hired yet.

Great.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh let's I need one more question, though.

I'm so sorry.

Is there any discussion of because you know we are a professional um we have a professional fire department?

There we go.

There's the word.

Yep.

Um is there discussion of potential revenue coming in from being of service to other smaller communities?

Is that just two out of the Yeah, no no discussions like that?

So it's it's all based on mutual aid.

They come here to help us out.

So it's it's just that you know, I help you, you help me uh type of situation.

So if we you know if we have a fire and we go to a second alarm, we automatically have four to five different departments coming to backfill our stations, coming to the scene to help us fight the fire, uh, and then we do the same for them.

So it all comes out.

Yeah, it's all yeah, it all washes out.

Great.

Randy has a question.

Other members of the public.

Hi, Randy Blogger District 7.

Um very informative, I think like every time the chief comes and talks, I learn more, and I think it's really important for everybody to understand that.

My my one question is like Peter brought up um and the chief brought up about the banners and this and that, and and then you know, events or parades or whatever.

Do we charge anything to cover this overtime if it is a larger event?

And and what we're charging, does that actually cover police and fire overtime?

Good question, Randy.

We as Peter and and the chief discussed, we don't quite cover our cost for the banner.

We have had discussions about uh individuals um protests and asking them for money on a voluntary basis, but the money that we have received from them in no way matches the outlay of staff personnel.

Um so what we need to do and have discussed is having some sort of an ordinance that codifies that those charges, and hopefully we can get to that within the new year.

Is there anything else to add, John?

Yeah, we really haven't had the capacity to take on that project, which is significant all the entire Chapter 11 needs to be re-looked at for just that issue, yeah, among other things.

But we have asked for volunteer contributions from those entities.

Is there any way in the meantime, like when that parade permit, or maybe I'm using the wrong terminology is applied for to say that under our budgeting, we can afford this many during our budget year before you get to this ordinance?

Um we have we have outlined the costs for them and asked, but uh we have not gotten to the point of limiting public events because of it.

So um I think we can heighten those discussions, but we're not really uh have ever discussed limited um public speech and public access.

Yeah, I'm not talking about limiting public speech.

I'm talking about an organized gathering that we have to approve a permit on that would require town assets.

So no way, you know speech.

People can talk and and I'm all for that.

I'm not saying so limit anything.

All I'm saying is to limit the town's cost exposure and liabilities.

And again, where we are now on that is asking on a voluntary basis.

And we've had that discussion on the select board.

Yes, Heidi.

Heidi Fisher District 7.

I just want to put out there that the uh publicly that the AED that was installed at the park was paid for by Brattleboro Senior Corp, which is an organization I'm on the board of that is a fiduciary, we have fiduciary responsibility for dispersing funds that are to the benefit of seniors in the town.

And um because there's so many pickleball players in the park and it's an older crowd, and that's more likely who will need a defibrillator.

That was how the decision was made to spend the money for that.

Well, that's wonderful.

Thank you, Heidi.

And please thank your group.

Uh Dick.

So enthusiastic.

Well, I wasn't sure whether I wasn't sure whether the woman behind you was raising her hand, but that's okay because you'll smile once in a while.

There you go.

I uh I want to maybe when you're not accusing our department of fraud, I can smile more.

I will tell you this publicly, you and I will have a conversation right after this meeting, because what you said to me was uh very hurtful.

I'm not making an accusation.

I took something out of here that was black and white, and I'll talk to you after the.

We did make those accusations and it was hurtful to the town.

Thank you.

You you can make your assumption of what you want, and you can protect the.

I'm not the one making assumptions.

No, I'm asking a question.

Point of order.

I don't think this is in order.

Can we that's right.

Let me ask my question.

We can have this conversation in public or we can have it in private.

It doesn't make any difference to me.

Well, I will.

Thank you.

And I don't need to hear from you either.

You just did.

Oh my god.

Yeah, that's right.

Look at your cell phone some more.

Excellent.

Do you want to just keep going?

Is that is that your point to stand at the microphone at this moment?

Let's ask.

Let's have you ask your question and have you ask your question to the select board.

Is wellness our wellness days carried over to can they be carried over?

And what's the average time on a callback?

I know they get a minimum of two hours.

But what's the average time when someone gets called back in?

Uh Jay, would you like to comment on that?

Sure.

Uh the wellness days do not get carried over.

Uh so they don't carry over from day to day or uh year to year.

I'm sorry, year to year.

Uh there's they're used within a 22-day time frame is is how they're allotted and used.

Uh I do not have an average time for callbacks.

They vary greatly.

So we've had callbacks that we've needed those firefighters for as short as like you know 15 to 30 minutes, and we get a unit back in service, they've gone as long as several hours.

So I I don't have an average.

We can we can start to I can I can try to break that down.

I'd have to go back into some data, but I don't have that available right now.

Thank you.

Anyone else have comments?

No, anyone online.

All right, great.

Well, thank you, gentlemen.

We're here again for the next piece.

One more round.

Oh, yes.

Item E.

Review EMS billing and collection policy.

Well, we certainly have a theme tonight, don't we?

We do.

Jay, you want to whenever you're ready.

Okay.

All right.

This is uh this is a two-pager, so I'll read this memo.

I didn't break this one down into notes.

Uh so this is about our our EMS billing uh policy review.

So when the billing policy was put into place, uh it was decided that we would do the select board would do an annual review of the billing pro policy.

So what our request is is to continue with the current EMS billing and collection policy and to conduct a regional market review of EMS fee schedules to to further look at our EMS billing policy.

When EMS billing and collections policy was adopted in July of 2024, it included a provision for review after one year.

We have been providing EMS transport independently for 16 months.

This policy has guided our billing process, payment plans, and collection practices.

While the policy appears to be functioning, the billing cycle timeline is 30-day window before accounts may be sent to collections or written off, meaning we do not have enough data yet to draw a complete conclusion about the overall outcomes.

Current staffs, along with our billing partner, we continue to follow billing policy and ensure a timely claim processing.

The average time from service to claim processing is less than one week.

Payment plans, write-offs, and potential collections are currently being compiled for review.

We are in the process of contracting with a collection agency, which will handle any accounts that reach that stage, of which the total number is being determined.

This is our first cycle of age billing.

A detailed review of report is being prepared for November.

And just a note on the collection policy for clarification.

Um the the collection agency, uh what we'd be looking at collecting is outside the tax base.

So it was decided when this was put into place that we would not send people to collections that pay taxes in the town of Brattleboro.

So we'd be looking at at people outside the town.

Uh fee schedule considerations.

While the billing policy itself appears to be sound, this is an appropriate time to consider review of the fee schedule.

Although government funded payers, Medicare, Medicaid, do not reimburse above their established fee schedules.

Conducting a market comparison ensures Bradborough's rate remains consistent with operational costs and area benchmarks.

So we put a table in here.

Uh right now, Brattleboro charges 1,400 for an ALS call, 1400 uh advanced life support call, 1400 for a basic life support call, and 22 dollars per mile.

Cheshire County County charges 2100 for an a uh advanced life support call, 1890 for a basic life support call and 32 dollars a mile.

And then the city of Keene charges 1870 for an advanced life support call, uh 1,575 for a basic life support call and 31 dollars a mile.

So what we'd like to do a market research on is look more into that and make sure our fees are appropriate for the service we're providing.

This may result in increased reimbursement from private insurance from the VA, which together amount to for approximately 24% of the payer mix.

Market analysis is recommended to determine whether adjustments to the fee schedule are warranted to align with current regional rates.

So next steps.

At that point, reviews for write-offs and collections will be completed.

The EMS billing and collection policy continues to serve its intended purpose.

It provides transparency, compliance, and compassion in our billing practices for service reimbursement.

As this is the first year of full implementation, additional time and data will strengthen the evaluation and any potential recommendations for adjustment.

So our recommendation would be that uh we review the billing policy uh at the end of the fiscal year when we have more data to present and we can do some more market analysis.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Um ladies and gentlemen, you have a question?

Amanda?

I have a simple question.

A simple one.

How much does it cost to hire a collection agency?

And does it vary?

Yeah, um, so what from our understanding they charge 3% of what they recover.

So it's a it's a 3% fee.

So if they recover nothing, then we don't pay them.

You know, if we recover $100, we pay them $3.

Okay.

Oscar?

No, not really.

I'm I'm looking forward, it does look like we're a little low, so I'm looking forward to reviewing it more, but you're thinking we do that a little further down the line.

Yeah.

Yeah, we would like to look at like our collection policy and how that goes or how the collections go, do some more market analysis so we have good information for you.

Perfect.

And I'm shocked to see that Kate was yawning earlier because it's only 9 30.

So come on, Kate.

No days off.

Isaac?

Yeah, I was curious about the collection when only 2% of the people that were assisting are um self-pay.

Um are we going to collect after the in from the insurance companies or is how is that yeah?

It wouldn't be so the insurance companies have have all paid the collections would be from co-pays or uh private pay uh that that haven't been collected.

Thank you.

And then my other question was um back to the um the numbers that Bonnie was sharing earlier around the um she mentioned the on average we're collecting 46 percent of what we're charging.

Um I was curious if that was with strictly within the month, or if we're actually collecting more than that with time.

So for instance, for something that we build in July, um we collected 44% of our monthly charges.

My understanding was that was just within the month of July.

So if there was a charge on July 31st, I would be very surprised if we would collect on within the month of July.

And so I'm curious if we have data about what we're collecting, you know, outside of just that month.

Do you do you follow me?

I think so.

And I I think so.

I think the answer to the question is based on that accrual.

So what Bonnie is doing is if that payment comes in at a later date, she's still putting it back into that month.

So if you see 46% in July, that doesn't mean that all 46% came in July, it might have come in August, it might have come in September, but it's still credited to that July month.

Ah, okay, thank you.

That's the accrual accounting.

Yeah, and if if I'm wrong, Bonnie can.

Oh, she left.

Bonnie can't run.

Correct you.

It's cruel.

We're very cruel.

It's a cruel system.

Thank you.

Peter, do you have any questions?

I you know, I don't have any questions as always.

I just sort of appreciate um the job and the hard work that you guys do.

So you know, thanks for continuing to do it.

Thank you.

Yeah, question.

Just kidding.

I have one more question.

Just to help me understand the policy.

If I don't live in Brattleboro, I receive services, my insurance pays everything they're gonna pay, but it's a negotiated rate, so it's not everything we bill for.

Do we try to collect on that balance?

Or do we say the insurance has paid their negotiated rate we're done?

Uh we collect on that balance, right?

Well, it depends.

So you're using you're using specific terminology, negotiated rate, right?

So that's where if you look at Medicare, Medicaid.

They pay us what they pay us.

Let's say you have Blue Cross and Blue Shield.

If they pay, they may pay $1,000.

And depending on your plan, because everybody has different plans, you may have a copay that has to pay the remaining balance.

They may say that you only have X number of fee to pay depending on your plan.

And then if you have a high yield savings account, right, you may be responsible for a portion before the insurance would kick in.

We cannot charge someone once the insurance has paid whatever their policy states that's outside of a copay.

So what we would really be going after is people who aren't paying their copays or self-pay.

Okay, so if I if you charge 2,000 and I have Medicare and Medicare pays a thousands, that's it.

We're not trying to collect the other thousand.

I wish Medicare paid a thousand, we would get $543 and 29 cents.

Okay.

Okay.

But we don't go after that.

That would be illegal.

Great.

Thank you.

So real, like again, this really works for co-pays.

So someone has a $500 copay, and Blue Cross Blue Shield has paid, they haven't paid their $500.

That's where some of that money is remaining.

Got it.

Thank you.

So my turn.

I just want to thank you.

And I agree with you that a longer lead time would lead to a more informed decision making.

And so I appreciate that.

And I appreciate all of this data.

It's very helpful.

Thank you.

Let's open to the public.

Randy has his hand up.

Okay, thank you for searching guys.

I really appreciate it.

Um just a simple question.

Mutual aid, does that include EMS ambulances going outside of the town?

I just am curious about how that works.

Our mutual aid is with Keene, correct?

Right.

Well, with Cheshire Ambulance is the primary one that comes in.

We have yet, to my knowledge, sent an ambulance outside of Brattleboro for mutual aid.

We haven't done any.

And has Cheshire come here?

Yes, they are.

Great.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Anyone online?

All right, great.

Well, I'm gonna thank you, gentlemen, one more time.

Thank you.

All right, what's next?

Well, we have committee appointments.

So we have had a nice little interview with our four applicants for the um development review board and the Nelson E.

Withington Fund Advisory Committee.

So I've forgotten how we do this.

We nominate people.

Yes, you look for nominations and then you vote in the order of any nomination.

Great.

All right, let's start with the development review board.

Um would anyone like to make a nomination?

I'll nominate Steven.

Great.

Is there another nomination to be made?

I'll nominate Maya.

Very good.

Okay, so um voting for the nominee, Steven and Love.

Can we have a discussion first?

Sure, would you like to?

Yeah, I was just curious if anybody knows about the makeup of the board.

I mean, I'm impressed with all of the candidates and think they would all be valuable contribution.

And um just curious if there's a sense of oh, there's a lot of experience already on these boards, and it would be great to have some new energy, or um is it the other way around that there are a bunch of new people and it'll be good to have some consistency?

Yeah, just was curious if anybody knows.

Well, I think we have the classic classic conumbrum conundrum that you just identified, because we have Maya who's been on the board for nine years, and we have Stephen who just moved here.

Um both are qualified and both bring different sets of expertise to the board, and I think that the board is how many people are on the board?

It's seven members, and um I think most of them have been on for quite some time.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah.

Anyone else have any knowledge of the development review board?

And I know there are alternates.

So Maya is now an alternate because she had to get off because she was on for nine years.

Uh are we ready to vote?

Great.

Um all those voting for Stephen and Laput.

Say aye.

Great.

All those voting for say how many for the record.

Oh, for the record, that's that's five.

All those voting for Maya Hazegawa.

Please raise your hand.

Okay.

So I just want to say that I appreciate everybody's willingness to serve, and I certainly appreciate Maya's long-term service to the DRB.

I would imagine that she would remain an alternate.

And I just, yeah, I think two excellent candidates, and I I hated having to choose.

Yes.

Yes.

But again, I I I value both service, both Maya's service and her willingness to serve, and Steven's uh willingness to serve as well.

And so congratulations.

And we're really happy to have you, Steve.

And when we have chances to trick new people onto committees, we should take that.

Stephen is elected.

Oh, for the record, Stephen M.

LePut was elected to the development review board for a three-year term.

Woohoo.

Now for the Nelson E.

Withington Fund Advisory Committee.

We have Gary Stroud and Richard Carroll.

Would anyone care to nominate make a nomination?

I'll nominate Richard Carroll.

Great.

Are there any other nominations?

I'd like to nominate Gary Stroud.

All right.

Going with Peter's nomination first.

Anyone on the select board wishing to vote for Richard Carroll, please raise your hand.

One, two, three.

Okay.

Anyone wishing to vote for Gary Stroud, please raise your hand.

Okay.

So Mr.

Carroll has garnered three votes and Mr.

Stroud two.

So once again, I want to thank Gary for his willingness to stir to serve.

And I want to congratulate Richard Carroll for continuing to serve on the Nelson E.

Withington Fund Advisory Committee.

I thank you all very much.

And now we will go back to the item A on the consent agenda to discuss the parking lot snow removal contract.

John, you want to tell us about this?

And uh do we have anyone from the Department of Public Works still here?

Good.

We have Darren Pacheco and Dan Tyler who stuck around.

We really appreciate you.

And I would ask uh Dan and Darren to present this item.

Great.

I just want to um make sure that Darren heard the nice things said about you about the parking fund.

I was you know getting coffee at that point, but no, I did.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

Let's have these gentlemen uh present the and then you can ask your question.

Let's just have them present it.

Let's have them present it and then you can ask your question and the public will understand.

So each year um we put out a bid for winter parking lot maintenance.

Um it includes all the public parking lots.

And then we also include the Central Fire Station, Station 2, and PD at Black Mountain Road.

Um the way the bid is set up, they're each broke out individually.

Uh so a contractor can pick and choose which lots they want to bid on, or they might apply different rates to them depending on the equipment they want to use.

Um so we ask them to give hourly rates based on a six-inch storm um for the equipment that they would propose using.

Um for the last several years, um we've received bids from Belco excavation and Slate Rock Timber.

Um Slate Rock typically bids on the smaller lots, the Springtree Law, Elm Lot, um Station 2 and Central Fire, Belco bids on everything.

Um this year as in the past, we're recommending giving those smaller lots to Slate Rock and Belco, the remaining lots.

Uh the rates have gone up a little bit this year.

Um but you know, I think that it's consistent with what we've seen, like slight increases year to year.

Um the parking fund budgets $90,000 for snow removal.

And the PD's invoices are sent to them.

They pay out of their grounds maintenance line for their parking lot.

Historically has been paid out of the parking fund.

I think the there's some confusion in the memo.

Before Chief Howard retired, DPW had had a conversation with him about pulling that out.

And I was under the impression we had done that last year and we hadn't.

So they don't have a line budgeted to pay for the plowing at Station 2.

As I wrote here.

Great.

Thank you.

Let's have a motion before we have our discussion.

Would someone like to make a motion?

Sure.

I move to approve the award of the 2025-2026 winter snow removal of Elm Street, Spring Street, Central Station, and Station 2 to Slate Rock Timber and Municipal and Municipal Center, Preston, Harmony, Harris, Gibson Aiken Center, High Grove, Transportation Center, and Police Department to Belco excavation.

Great.

Let me just ask some general questions before we get to the public questions.

How long have we been splitting this up in this manner?

We've been putting it out in this manner the the entire time I've been here.

Darren kind of revamped the proposal in the last couple years just to clean it up and make it a little more clear.

The attempt really to entice more people to bid on it.

And the the point is that during a snowstorm, it's a lot for someone to do it all.

And it's better we're better served by breaking it up to having essentially two teams working on the snow remote.

Is that is that the thought?

Yeah, I mean in the past it's gone different ways.

You know, there have been years when one contractor has taken on all of it, and there's been years where there's been three contractors involved.

The last several years it's been these two.

And you're happy with their service and you're happy with this costs.

Okay.

Uh is there anyone in the select board who wants to discuss this before we bring it to the public?

I have a couple of questions.

So it says so it's a six-inch snow or more.

So does our DPW do do it if it's less than that or if it's ice and it's just sand.

Uh we so it's spelled out of the So uh in the in the bid itself, actually it asks it asks for an hourly rate and then it also asks for what it would cost you if we had a six plus inch storm.

So they give rates for both of those because we know it's going to be more expensive for them to deal with this six plus inch storm.

Normally we really just look at that hourly rate number because it pretty much carries the same when they do their invoicing.

Um that's how it's broke out.

I mean, kind of go back to Liz's.

We're looking, we're hoping by allowing each lot to be uh awarded separately would entice others because if we put it all in one big lump sum, right, it might scare other vendors away because it's like that's too much work.

So we really broke it out to say there's here's an opportunity to plow this one lot that would hopefully get better pricing and uh bring more vendors to bid.

Um it it hasn't yet, uh, but I've been having conversations trying to get the bid out to others, get it out on sites so we can get more vendors, but this year unfortunately we didn't.

But the contract does specify that they'll plow at certain accumulations.

So we don't do the plowing below six inches.

That's just the example we use in the bid, but it specifies two inches.

Yeah, so there's uh scope of work for all of each lot, um, and so there is specs that and this is where it's challenging, right?

This is like a parking thing, but DPW actually oversees snow operations, and so um a contractor has to be aware of weather conditions.

Um the minute that a parking lot has two inches of snow, they're supposed to come in, start plowing.

Um really what I did looking at as bid two was also trying to cut back on some of these added expenses.

So like salting, they can only salt once within an eight-hour period, just so we don't get someone who's coming back multiple times just hitting it with salt and and giving that expense to us.

Um we really looked at ways what could DPW do to cut on costs.

So there's certain lots that were originally getting snow removed after 48 hours.

Um some of those have been taken out where DPW is taking that responsibility.

Um but there is some lots that we just couldn't wait, you know.

If DPW is behind on a snowstorm, we can't leave uh humongous pile of snow in the municipal lot.

So that one we had to keep for the vendor to do.

And and there's a there's a bunch of uh specs and standards in that bid document that we make sure that the contractor stands by.

That's great.

Thank you for answering those questions.

Um you have questions?

I do not.

So uh how long has this discrepancy between the fire department and the parking fund been?

Like two years, one year?

No.

Longer over six years, I know that much.

Yeah, when um I think it's before Dan and I.

I think when I started working on the parking budget is when we started noticing that that was in there.

Um I Dan and I both I think had a conversation with Chief Howard when he was here and breaking that out.

Um it was something that was just missed this time around.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

I'm good.

All right.

Mr.

DeGray.

So the reason I asked you to pull this, and this was a great explanation, and I think everybody learned something here, is that A, I believe that the contract should be at least 120 because that's the line item that's at least in the police department budget for uh ground maintenance.

And there is no ground maintenance line item in the fire department.

And so uh here we have the parking system paying for uh snow removal uh for the fire department.

And earlier this evening, you were raving about how well that the uh parking budget is doing.

But the parking budget should no way be uh ploughing and supplementing the town tax base for that.

So uh I would hope that you would change that.

I'm not sure where you'll find $15,000 in the fire department budget, but I would I would ask that you do that and shift that cost over to the fire department.

So both line items would be equal.

That's all I'm asking for.

And I do believe that the contract should be for 120 and not 190.

I did speak with Dan today earlier, and they said that they do split when I get the invoices from the parking lots, they do bill like the police department.

They can't bill the fire department because there's no line item to bill them.

Thank you.

I think this is um I mean it's splitting hairs a bit.

Uh God, I'm not sure Darren charges all the time he puts into putting together this kind of a bid to the parking fund, and I'm not sure that um it's uh I mean I think this is the total amount, it's it's on an hourly basis.

So this is all an estimate.

The $90,000 is what's budgeted in the parking fund for um snow removal.

Yeah.

The the contract doesn't have a dollar amount to it.

It's just here plow, we agree to these rates.

And and that however the winter works out, it works out.

Um we did look at last winter.

Um Central Fire Station and Spring Tree, the contractor doesn't break those out.

I mean, it's kind of the same lot back there.

Um station two was about $3,500 for last winter's ploughing.

So we'll make sure that in this year's upcoming budget it's designated properly.

Yeah, we could we could try to adjust that.

Um it's it's really it's splitting hairs, though, and I think the the parking fund also gets revenues from the fire department lot uh because there's a parking permits there, but I don't know.

I think we could think about the accounting aspects.

But as far as the motion, yeah, there's no doesn't have a number, so I think we're good there.

Great.

All right.

So um anyone else care to comment on this matter.

Anyone online?

No.

All right.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's up to us.

Um we have a motion on the floor to approve the award for the 2025-2026 winter snow removal of Elm Street, Spring Street Central Station, and Station 2 to Slate Rock Timber, and Municipal Center, Preston, Harmony, Harris, Gibson Aiken Center, High Grove, Transportation Center, and Police Department, Dubelco Excavation.

All select board members in favor of this motion, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

And that's 5-0.

Thank you very much.

I'd like one more motion, please.

Thank you, guys, and thank you for the lateness of the hour.

Thank you.

I'd like to move that we adjourn.

Let's meet it.

Great.

All in favor of adjournment, please raise your hand and say aye.

Fine.

Thank you, BCTB.

Thank you as always, Seth.

Anyone else?

Just you, John.

No.

I'll be getting over to you.